Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Missing, Exploited and True Crime => Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND) => Topic started by: MuffyBee on October 30, 2009, 11:08:04 AM



Title: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on October 30, 2009, 11:08:04 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/Elizabeth20.gif)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 01:33:34 PM
The monster


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaYoutube-1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBMyYearbook.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaChannelYoutube.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamanteSing1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamanteSing2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaTwitter2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamanteFacebook.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamante.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssabusstamanteMyspace.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 18, 2009, 01:35:39 PM
 ::MonkeyBike::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Jan_in_Tx on November 18, 2009, 01:36:02 PM
09AC-CR03516 - ST V ALYSSA D BUSTAMANTE
 
 
 
 
 
This information is provided as a service and is not considered an official court record. 
Charge/Judgment 
Description: Murder 1st Degree { Felony A RSMo: 565.020 }
Date:  10/21/2009 Code:  1002100   
    Arresting Agency:  CO PROS ATTORNEY-JEFFERSON CY
 
Next Charge/Judgment 
Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015 }
Date:  10/21/2009 Code:  3101000   
    Arresting Agency:  CO PROS ATTORNEY-JEFFERSON CY
 
 

She's on casnet...FINALLY!!  https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/charges.do


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 18, 2009, 01:36:12 PM
Sorry Klaas!! That last thread got double locked!!   ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 01:37:13 PM
(http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss174/northernrose/elizabeth3-1.gif)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 01:38:23 PM
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A Missouri grand jury has indicted a 15-year-old on a charge of first-degree murder in the slaying of her 9-year-old neighbor.

Alyssa Bustamante is accused of killing Elizabeth Olten by strangling the girl, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21.

Bustamante also is charged with armed criminal action for allegedly using a knife in the attack.

The indictment Wednesday came hours after a judge ruled Bustamante should stand trial as an adult. She is being held without bond in Cole County jail.

If convicted of first-degree murder, Bustamante could be sentenced to life in prison.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6727036.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 18, 2009, 01:41:12 PM
This was such a brutal killing. Rest in Peace, Elizabeth! 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: ScareyCarrie on November 18, 2009, 01:41:47 PM
I know we have talked about how small Alyssa is, but did we ever determine a weight ratio between Elizabeth and Alyssa??

Just curious b/c of the strangling charge...

Was there much difference in thier heights do we know?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 01:42:23 PM
Yes she is KLAAS. Truly a monster.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


GOD BLESS ELIZABETH!!  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 01:42:35 PM
Bustamante indicted for 1st degree murder

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Update: 12:11 p.m.

A grand jury handed down a two count indictment to Alyssa Bustamante, the first on first degree murder charges for the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten and the second count on armed criminal action.

Court documents said that Bustamante allegedly strangled, stabbed and cut Olten’s throat on Oct. 21 -- the day Elizabeth went missing.

She also is charged with armed criminal action for using a knife in the attack.

The charges in adult court were filed just hours after Bustamante had been certified to stand trial as an adult. She's being held in the Cole County jail with no bond.

Bustamante’s court appointed attorney Kurt Valentine argued, during the certification hearing, that certifying Bustamante as an adult will put her in harm’s way. She would be in an adult prison where she will not be able to protect herself from other inmates and herself.  :smt097

During the certification hearing, people testified that Bustamante has a history of mental illness. She attempted suicide in September 2007. While Bustamante was in custody, she tried to cut herself with her fingernails. Authorities had to cut her fingernails for her in order to make her stop.

Valentine has been released as her counsel as she is moved into adult court.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=378975


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Hitch on November 18, 2009, 01:42:57 PM
As most 15 year old girls are excited about going to see the new Twilight movie, Alyssa gets to enjoy the excitement of a Cole County jail cell.

Boo frickin' hoo.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 01:43:31 PM
I know we have talked about how small Alyssa is, but did we ever determine a weight ratio between Elizabeth and Alyssa??

Just curious b/c of the strangling charge...

Was there much difference in thier heights do we know?

I believe if I remember correctly that Elizabeth was a pretty good size for a 9 yr old. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 01:43:38 PM
 My fact vs rumor post from Nov 8 2009;(copied and pasted)
 Parts in Red turned out to be true
Been trying to put facts vs rumors on paper, thought I would share her so we can kinda have an idea where we are, and have all facts and rumors in one spot!!!


 FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS

October 21 2009 (Wednesday)
 
 9 yr old Elizabeth Olten disappears after playing at friend house, last contact was sometime after 6 pm.
  Elizabeth was a 4th grader at Pioneer Trails Elem in Jefferson Cty.
  Elizabeth was playing at a neighbors house, aprox 1/2 miles from her own home.
  In residence of that house a gma, gpa, 6 yr old female, 2 11 yr old males, and 15 yr old female
  LE called in around 7 pm.
  Search begins sometime pretty quick after 7 pm .
  AT&T traingulates cell phone that was in EO possesion
October 22, 2009 (Thurs)
  Search continues for Elizabeth,
  Wooded area and rainy weather make searching hard
  Hundreds of volunteers and other help in search(dogs, helicopters etc)
  Cell phone is dead, no more pings.
October 23, 2009 (Friday)
  Search contiunes
  At approx 3 pm. LE releases information
     EO's body has been found, well concealed,
     15 yr old juvenile has lead them to the body
        Body well concealed
        Cell located near the body
     Some sort of written evidence also aided in finding EO, as well as other evidence
     15 yr old juvenile is in custody
   
 Things were are pretty certain on.
The 15 yr old juvenile is a female named Alyssa Bustamante
Sophmore at JCHS
Half sister of Elizabeths play mate.
She is being raisied by maternal grand parents(step gdad) GLB AND KSB, due to father(CTB) being in prison and mother(MLB) criminal history and multiple arrest, form drug abuse.
Has aunt KNB who recently married RP, her long time boyfriend.

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS

 EO sent home by gpa of AB
 EO called mom and said she was on her way home
  (I also read Eo said "I am coming home something happened here")
 AB gpa told EO's mom "EO was sent home"
 EO's mom called EO and told her to "get home"

AB called EO to come back to the house, after EO headed home
 

 Murder is premediatated
  Grave dug October 16, 2009
  AB had told friends at school she "wanted to kill someone to see how it felt"
  You Tube Acct list hobbies as "killing and cutting"
COD
  Strangulation
    (with "silk scarf")
  Cutting and stabbing

Grave is behind
  Elizabeths house
  "Directly" behind AB house
     *(in press release from Sheriff White, he stated body was found near where they began   search")

Information from (someone) lead LE to AB. (written info)


A search warrant was served on the house of AB.
  Reportedly a traffic warrant
  Gparents cooperated with LE
  Gparents were uncooperative.
    *(actually it could go both ways, maybe one time they cooperated and another they did not)

 
Search warrant turns up some knd of journal/diary belonging to AB
   Says
      Should have gone to church
 
AB Wednesday
  Called EO back to house
  Took both young girls to woods, but sent half sister back
   Did not help with search for Eo, wanted to "take shower"




 AB thursday
  Skipped school
  Was at school
   *(again both could be true, she skipped part of day)
  Found on school grounds w/ boyfriend after itis noticed she skipped
    *( we do not know WHO discovered her skipping if this is true)
  LE didnt question her this night cause she was high?

 AB friday
   Talk to LE
    FBI


 Other AB RUMORS
   Was a thrill kill
    Just because kill
   Planned to kill specifically EO maybe mths in advance
   Had help
   Did it alone
   Very good student
    homocidal and suicidal indications, hospitalized for them
    turtured animals and siblings
    Did it  because of jealousy
      possibley over cell phone
      possible connection to crimes in both families

 EO strangled, throat slashed and stabbed
    knife used


Let's see how much of the rest turns out to be true???


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 18, 2009, 01:44:34 PM
I have been sitting here reading the last thread and for the life of me I am nearly speechless. This girl is a savage and needs to be eradicated from this earth. MO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 01:44:52 PM
I know we have talked about how small Alyssa is, but did we ever determine a weight ratio between Elizabeth and Alyssa??

Just curious b/c of the strangling charge...

Was there much difference in thier heights do we know?

Elizabeth was 5'2" and 108 lbs.  Regardless of Alyssa's size, she will have no issues defending herself in adult jail  based on what she was capable of.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 01:48:51 PM
I know we have talked about how small Alyssa is, but did we ever determine a weight ratio between Elizabeth and Alyssa??

Just curious b/c of the strangling charge...

Was there much difference in thier heights do we know?

I believe if I remember correctly that Elizabeth was a pretty good size for a 9 yr old. JMO

bumped from thread one:

Elizabeth, who has long brown hair and brown eyes, is about 5-feet, 2-inches tall and weighs 102 pounds. She was last seen wearing a pink scarf, sweater and T-shirt with butterflies, blue jeans and white shoes.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Jan_in_Tx on November 18, 2009, 01:49:01 PM
when I go to the live feed: http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/content.aspx?id=348790

my windows media player comes up and starts playing what I have on the tv...that's strange...no picture, just sound...I read at WS that one of their posters are at the arraignment and said same rules apply, no cameras/phones/audio etc...so I doubt we will be able to watch it live..


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 01:51:12 PM


BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
I know we have talked about how small Alyssa is, but did we ever determine a weight ratio between Elizabeth and Alyssa??

Just curious b/c of the strangling charge...

Was there much difference in thier heights do we know?

Elizabeth was 5'2" and 108 lbs.  Regardless of Alyssa's size, she will have no issues defending herself in adult jail  based on what she was capable of.

NORTHERN ROSE!!  I knew I should have just sat back and waited.  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 01:52:58 PM
well the live stream I got is Days of Our lives..not even a soap could come up with this??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 01:53:51 PM
well the live stream I got is Days of Our lives..not even a soap could come up with this??

Nope is Bold and Beautiful..


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 18, 2009, 01:54:24 PM
Just wondering if anyone has considered or discussed the motive being that Alyssa did something that Elizabeth witnessed/knew about and Alyssa was trying to cover/shut her up.  PURELY SPECULATION.  Just saw the list posted of Facts vs. Rumors.  Elizabeth rumored to have called home and possibly say she was coming home and that something had happened.  Of course the graves being dug ahead of time clearly points to premeditation, but the timing of the actual murder may have been dictated by Alyssa believing Elizabeth was going to tell on her for something.

In a 15 yr old's mind, it may make sense to just say she did it to see what it felt like to kill someone to cover up anything else she might have done.  I know, its a stretch, but we are all thinking like sane adults, not lost, delusional, angry 15 year olds.  Just brainstorming, nothing more.  I want Alyssa convicted and punished to the FULLEST extent of the law, but something isn't sitting well with her "I just wanted to see what it felt like" reasoning.  SOMETHING caused her to snap.  SOMETHING caused her to choose Elizabeth.  I can't get my brain wrapped around anything less.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 01:55:08 PM
TXFLAME, I think we've done pretty good working with rumors and cover ups. Bet there will he a whole lot more red on that list soon.  ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 01:58:27 PM
Just wondering if anyone has considered or discussed the motive being that Alyssa did something that Elizabeth witnessed/knew about and Alyssa was trying to cover/shut her up.  PURELY SPECULATION.  Just saw the list posted of Facts vs. Rumors.  Elizabeth rumored to have called home and possibly say she was coming home and that something had happened.  Of course the graves being dug ahead of time clearly points to premeditation, but the timing of the actual murder may have been dictated by Alyssa believing Elizabeth was going to tell on her for something.

In a 15 yr old's mind, it may make sense to just say she did it to see what it felt like to kill someone to cover up anything else she might have done.  I know, its a stretch, but we are all thinking like sane adults, not lost, delusional, angry 15 year olds.  Just brainstorming, nothing more.  I want Alyssa convicted and punished to the FULLEST extent of the law, but something isn't sitting well with her "I just wanted to see what it felt like" reasoning.  SOMETHING caused her to snap.  SOMETHING caused her to choose Elizabeth.  I can't get my brain wrapped around anything less.

Hard for me to get around the pre-dug graves the week before.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 02:01:28 PM
TXFLAME, I think we've done pretty good working with rumors and cover ups. Bet there will he a whole lot more red on that list soon.  ::MonkeyJnBox::

Yes u are soo right.. I predicted MOST of the list will be red!!!  Really the only things we arent sure of at this point is the possibility of help..and how the gparents reacted!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 02:04:57 PM
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/

Photos of Alyssa and Elizabeth


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 18, 2009, 02:06:53 PM
In September 2007, Cook said they found that Alyssa had spent 10 days in Mid-MO Mental Health Center after a suicide attempt, and then was treated through Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare, dealing with depression.

He said Alyssa and her family were very involved and had attended treatment regularly. She had been prescribed Prozac for her depression.
 (It certainly appears that Alyssa's grandma and grandpa tried and took an interest in Alyssa's suicide attempt and depression, and at least attempted to get help for her.)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Jan_in_Tx on November 18, 2009, 02:12:47 PM
In September 2007, Cook said they found that Alyssa had spent 10 days in Mid-MO Mental Health Center after a suicide attempt, and then was treated through Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare, dealing with depression.

He said Alyssa and her family were very involved and had attended treatment regularly. She had been prescribed Prozac for her depression.
 (It certainly appears that Alyssa's grandma and grandpa tried and took an interest in Alyssa's suicide attempt and depression, and at least attempted to get help for her.)

I agree that they attempted to help her by getting her couseling, however someone that could do such HORRIBLE things to a little girl could've jut been fooling the doc's and making them think she was getting better. This girl is a psychopath...and IMO there is NO rehabilitating ALYSSA BUSTAMANTE, she deserves to rot in prison for the rest of her life. I hope she is tortured in prison as well because she deserves everything that she gets for what she did to sweet Elizabeth...I'm SO disgusted with her


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 02:14:05 PM
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC..but would all my friends here please check out this website I built for an unidentified girl out of Texas. She has gone 30 years with no name. I need to get as many hits as possible to get the site in good search engines. I understand with all that is going on now, it maybe awhile before you all can check it out, just please book mark it..and read through the info.

http://walkercountyjanedoe1980.webs.com

TIA


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 02:14:38 PM
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/

Photos of Alyssa and Elizabeth

I see a pic of KB and her hubby. I wonder why we are seeing not pics of the G'parents?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 18, 2009, 02:15:31 PM
Judge ordered a plea of not guilty on her behalf as Kurt Valentine did NOT return.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 02:15:52 PM
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC..but would all my friends here please check out this website I built for an unidentified girl out of Texas. She has gone 30 years with no name. I need to get as many hits as possible to get the site in good search engines. I understand with all that is going on now, it maybe awhile before you all can check it out, just please book mark it..and read through the info.

http://walkercountyjanedoe1980.webs.com

TIA

Done. How sad is that??  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: ScareyCarrie on November 18, 2009, 02:16:19 PM
I know we have talked about how small Alyssa is, but did we ever determine a weight ratio between Elizabeth and Alyssa??

Just curious b/c of the strangling charge...

Was there much difference in thier heights do we know?

I believe if I remember correctly that Elizabeth was a pretty good size for a 9 yr old. JMO
Thats what i was thinking she may have been able to put up a pretty good fight, unless stabbed first, not really important know i guess just was curious, so very sad especially since she did nothing to warrant or bring this on  ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Elong on November 18, 2009, 02:16:35 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575590,00.html?test=latestnews

Fox is covering it, no photos of AB


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:17:17 PM
Judge ordered a plea of not guilty on her behalf as Kurt Valentine did NOT return.

One article stated he would not be returning as he was defense for Juvi court and now that it was in adult courts he would not be involved.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: sunshine12 on November 18, 2009, 02:17:35 PM
Judge ordered a plea of not guilty on her behalf as Kurt Valentine did NOT return.

wow i wonder why he didnt return


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 18, 2009, 02:18:59 PM
Judge ordered a plea of not guilty on her behalf as Kurt Valentine did NOT return.

One article stated he would not be returning as he was defense for Juvi court and now that it was in adult courts he would not be involved.
All I know is this is from a poster from WS who was in the courtroom, she just notified her sister with this info.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 18, 2009, 02:21:17 PM
steph572 
Registered User   Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16 
 
Mug shot will be released today. They saw the family on camera this afternoon. Alyssa's Family was behind the defense table. Alyssa is now sporting a green Cole Co. Jail jumpsuit. Alyssa did speak, answered a few questions. Entered alone, sat alone. Jan King is the public attorney she will speak to after but as of now she has no attorney. Status date Dec. 7th 
  From WS


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 02:23:52 PM
steph572 
Registered User   Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16 
 
Mug shot will be released today. They saw the family on camera this afternoon. Alyssa's Family was behind the defense table. Alyssa is now sporting a green Cole Co. Jail jumpsuit. Alyssa did speak, answered a few questions. Entered alone, sat alone. Jan King is the public attorney she will speak to after but as of now she has no attorney. Status date Dec. 7th 
  From WS

UGHHH sounds like to me she is being set up for sympathy ..no way ever does she need sympathy IMHO All sympathy goes to Patty and family, and Elizabeth


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:23:58 PM
Olten Suspect Charged With First Degree Murder

COLE COUNTY - 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is charged with first degree murder in the death of Elizabeth Olten.

She is accused of killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten in October.

The initial public hearing began at 8 a.m. this morning and finished around 10 a.m as Cole County Judge Jon Beetem announced Bustamante would be tried as an adult.

About 30 members of the community were in the court room for the emotional hearing.  Prosecutor Samantha Green fought back tears, as did Olten's family, as she pleaded for the judge to try Bustamante as an adult due both to the severity and viciousness of the crime.

Sgt. David Rice of the Missouri Highway Patrol was the chief investigator on the case, and testified that he interviewed Bustamante on October 23, two days after Olten was reported missing.  Bustamante, a guardian, and a juvenile officer were all present.  She also led authorities to the body.

He also testified that during the Oct. 23 interview, Bustamante said she dug two holes in the woods on October 16, and planned the murder of Olten. 

Sgt. Rice said that when he asked Bustamante why she allegedly killed Olten, she replied that she "wanted to know what it felt like."

Principal Jeff Dodson of Jefferson City High School was the first to testify Wednesday morning. He talked about Bustamante's performance in school as good.  She was in the top third of her class. He said he had casual interactions with Bustamante and found her to be an average student.

Dodson said Bustamante attended school on the day Olten was murdered, and the only unexcused absence she had from school was the day after Olten's death.

Jefferson City Public Schools issued a statement Wednesday saying it had provided law enforcement and courts with documents and information that had been requested.  The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act prohibits school officials from publicly discussing students records.


Green, the prosecutor, rested much of her case to try Bustamante as an adult rested on the lack of proper services in the juvenile system to treat Bustamante, which Judge Beetem upheld in his decision.

Judge Beetem said he was "disappointed with the Division of Youth Services" because it lacks the "adequate facilities, programs, or services that [Bustamante] needs to treat her past her 21st birthday."

Bill Haverly testified on the behalf of the Missouri Division of Youth Services, which provides services for juveniles in trouble with the law.  He said that there are no juvenile secure care for females in the state, only for males.

He testified that if she were to go into juvenile care, she would likely be in a residential care program for eight months, followed by six months in an after-care program. He said the latest she would be released from juvenile care is her 21st birthday, which would put her back in the community in just more than five years.

Green said that with Bustamante's past issues, five years was not enough time for treatment or punishment.

Juvenile officer David Cook testified that Bustamante has received mental health services since September 2007 after she attempted suicide.  She had a ten-day stay in the Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center after the attempt, and has received mental health services from Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare in Jefferson City since.

Cook said Bustamante takes Prozac for depression and also received services for mood swings and self-harm.  Cook said Bustamante has a history of cutting herself, but said that there were no indications she was homicidal.

Bustamante had been in care of her grandmother, Karen Brooke, since 2001, and Cook said her life at home was normal and structured.  She did chores and earned an allowance, and had no abnormal confrontations with her siblings.

Brett Valentine, Bustamante's juvenile defender, argued that Bustamanate wouldn't survive in the adult Department of Corrections.  There are currently no girls in the Department of Corrections aged 13-15.

KOMU has a team of reporters at the Cole County Courthouse to bring updates throughout the day.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: ScareyCarrie on November 18, 2009, 02:24:24 PM
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC..but would all my friends here please check out this website I built for an unidentified girl out of Texas. She has gone 30 years with no name. I need to get as many hits as possible to get the site in good search engines. I understand with all that is going on now, it maybe awhile before you all can check it out, just please book mark it..and read through the info.

http://walkercountyjanedoe1980.webs.com

TIA

To me it is amazing that ppl go unidentified, especially for that long! she had to have family, or friends anyone that cared for her and hasnt seen or heard from her and was looking for her... i dont get it!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:26:26 PM
Grandma's name - Karen Brooke is now officially out there with the KOMU article.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:29:14 PM
BROOKE, KAREN S (Age 52)
 
 Associated names:
 
 BROOKE, K   
 NIETO, KAREN W

JEFFERSON CITY, MO
PLEASANTON, CA
HOLLISTER, CA
VALLEJO, CA
CONCORD, CA

Possible Relatives:
 
BROOKE, GARY LEE (Age 62)
NIETO, ROBERT LAWRENCE (Age 57)
BROOKE, CARY
 
http://www.veromi.net


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 02:30:45 PM
I know we have talked about how small Alyssa is, but did we ever determine a weight ratio between Elizabeth and Alyssa??

Just curious b/c of the strangling charge...

Was there much difference in thier heights do we know?

I believe if I remember correctly that Elizabeth was a pretty good size for a 9 yr old. JMO
Thats what i was thinking she may have been able to put up a pretty good fight, unless stabbed first, not really important know i guess just was curious, so very sad especially since she did nothing to warrant or bring this on  ::MonkeyWaa::

My guess is that Elizabeth may have been unexpectedly strangled first with her own pink scarf......


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:31:10 PM
Found bio grandma's marriage records, 1st marriage (in TX) to man with same last name as bio mom's maiden name.

This is grandma's 3rd marriage, at least.

1st marriage in TX in 1975 (to MB's father)
2nd marriage in CA in 1983
3rd marriage to Gary Lee Brooke


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:32:06 PM
Grandma did run a daycare:

Kidz School Finder - Search Jefferson City Missouri Preschools ...
Karen Brooke Lomo Dr Jefferson City, Mo (573) XXX-XXXX

www.kidzschoolfinder.com/Jeffersoncitymopreschools.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:33:02 PM
The built their new house as steel frame
 
“ We are very satisfied with the work done by Xtreme. We are a true-believer in the unvented application. Our new steel-framed home sits on a hill, with the high winds that we receive we really don't notice it until we open the door. I feel completely sealed. Thanks Xtreme. ”
Gary and Karen Brooke
Jefferson City, MO
http://www.xcfi.biz/forms/testimonials.aspx
(pictures of house at this site as well)
 
Coincidentally the first command post was set up at Xtreme, the company they gave the testimonial to.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 02:33:47 PM
Grandma's name - Karen Brooke is now officially out there with the KOMU article.
::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TvPolice on November 18, 2009, 02:34:18 PM
I would like to know who the second grave was dig for ?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: ScareyCarrie on November 18, 2009, 02:36:10 PM
I would like to know who the second grave was dig for ?

Along with did she have help......


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:36:49 PM
Karen Brooke (grandma) filed for
guardianship of 3 minors in 2005.  She took on kids (grandkids) from parents who were respondents.  It lists the kids names and addresses.  So the house on 228 and the one on 626 (this is the one Elizabeth was visiting are listed for addresses).  I have XXX's out the other minor's names as they have not been released yet.
 
BUSTAMANTE , ALYSSA DAILEN , Minor   
228 LOMO DRIVE
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109
Year of Birth: 1994

BUSTAMANTE , XXXXXXXXX , Minor   
626 LOMO DRIVE
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109
Year of Birth: 1998

BUSTAMANTE , XXXXXX , Minor
626 LOMO DRIVE
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109
Year of Birth: 1998 

BUSTAMANTE , MICHELLE LEE , Respondent   
103 PARK PLACE
CROCKER, MO 65452
Year of Birth: 1978
 
BUSTAMANTE , CAESAR T , Respondent   
75 FARMER LANE
BRUMLEY, MO 65017
Year of Birth: 1974
 
BROOKE , KAREN S , Guardian
228 LOMO DRIVE
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109
Year of Birth: 1957

Petitioner appears in person and by Attorney Browning. Minor children appears by Attorney Hey. Evidence adduced. Natural father appears not. Natural mother consents in writing. Guardianship granted. Costs taxed to Petitioner. /s/PSJ/lh
 
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/parties.do



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:38:11 PM
BROOKE, GARY L & KAREN S
228 LOMO DR
PID: 0901110002002008001
 
http://www.midmogis.org/website/MidMoGIS/maphtm/viewer.asp


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Tracygirl on November 18, 2009, 02:42:01 PM
The monster


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaYoutube-1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBMyYearbook.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaChannelYoutube.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamanteSing1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamanteSing2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaTwitter2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamanteFacebook.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaBustamante.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssabusstamanteMyspace.jpg)


Yikes!!!! She is one disturbed teenager. What on earth makes someone like this? I mean did something happen to her or was she always like this? Was she one of those little kids that picked wings off of flies and set cats on fire? I will admit, I didn't follow through with this case because it disturbs me, this girl is young, only 15 years old.

What a brutal death Elizabeth experienced, I am so sorry for her pain and for the pain of all those close to this case has been forced to endure. 
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
Judge ordered a plea of not guilty on her behalf as Kurt Valentine did NOT return.

<snipped>
Valentine has been released as her counsel as she is moved into adult court.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=378975


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:45:09 PM
The Monster


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:46:17 PM
Not-guilty plea for 15-year-old in Mo. slaying of 9-year-old

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Alyssa Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge today, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in the Oct. 21 slaying.

Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

Earlier Wednesday, a police officer testified that Bustamante had confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/20091118not-guilty_plea_for_15-year-old_in_mo_slaying_of_9-year-old/srvc=home&position=recent


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:53:17 PM
Monster


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 02:53:19 PM
Not-guilty plea for 15-year-old in Mo. slaying of 9-year-old

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Alyssa Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge today, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in the Oct. 21 slaying.

Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

Earlier Wednesday, a police officer testified that Bustamante had confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/20091118not-guilty_plea_for_15-year-old_in_mo_slaying_of_9-year-old/srvc=home&position=recent

Looks like it has finally hit the national news.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 02:58:06 PM
Not-guilty plea for 15-year-old in Mo. slaying of 9-year-old

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Alyssa Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge today, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in the Oct. 21 slaying.

Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

Earlier Wednesday, a police officer testified that Bustamante had confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/20091118not-guilty_plea_for_15-year-old_in_mo_slaying_of_9-year-old/srvc=home&position=recent

Looks like it has finally hit the national news.

 ::MonkeyJustice::  ::MonkeyGavel::   ::MonkeyJustice:: 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:00:08 PM
Grandma did run a daycare:

Kidz School Finder - Search Jefferson City Missouri Preschools ...
Karen Brooke Lomo Dr Jefferson City, Mo (573) XXX-XXXX

www.kidzschoolfinder.com/Jeffersoncitymopreschools.htm


And now I will say it. If Karen Brooke took Alyssa and her brothers and their half sister to raise, she had no business tending to somebody else's children and leaving these children so unsupervised. She knew there was a problem with Alyssa, and in the YouTubes and MySpace and other videos, we could see that they were unsupervised a lot of the time in very dangerous activities. Her husband had a pretty good job, so was it necessary for this to have happened? There was also another grown daughter (and her new husband!) in the house. It doesn't look to me, by what we found, that she was much help in watching their activities. 

Sorry, but I have been sitting on my hand for too long, and I have fire coming out my ears.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:02:49 PM
JEFFERSON CITY — A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Alyssa Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge Wednesday, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in the Oct. 21 slaying.

Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

On Wednesday, a Missouri grand jury indicted Bustamante on a charge first-degree murder in slaying of Elizabeth Olten.

The grand jury indictment accuses Bustamante of killing Elizabeth Olten by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21 — the day Elizabeth went missing.

A police officer testified earlier that a 15-year-old girl told investigators she killed a 9-year-old neighbor because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone, and a judge ruled the teen should stand trial as an adult.

Police testified that Elizabeth Olten did nothing to provoke the attack against her, and the teenage suspect led authorities to the girl's body after they questioned her.


http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2009/11/18/mo-teen-be-tried-adult-death-girl-9/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: fatcatlurker on November 18, 2009, 03:03:24 PM
wow.  she does not look so small in that last picture.  I thought Elizabeth was 60 pds?  I've always thought some people who do these things must have super human strength when committing the acts they do.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 18, 2009, 03:03:57 PM
Not-guilty plea for 15-year-old in Mo. slaying of 9-year-old

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Alyssa Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge today, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in the Oct. 21 slaying.

Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

Earlier Wednesday, a police officer testified that Bustamante had confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/20091118not-guilty_plea_for_15-year-old_in_mo_slaying_of_9-year-old/srvc=home&position=recent

Looks like it has finally hit the national news.

 ::MonkeyJustice::  ::MonkeyGavel::   ::MonkeyJustice:: 

 ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: fatcatlurker on November 18, 2009, 03:05:27 PM
I would like to know who the second grave was dig for ?

I wonder if they were in two different area's or dug out next to each other? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 03:06:18 PM
http://www.ksdk.com/news/pdfs/bustamanteindictment.pdf

The indictment


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:06:23 PM
Grandma did run a daycare:

Kidz School Finder - Search Jefferson City Missouri Preschools ...
Karen Brooke Lomo Dr Jefferson City, Mo (573) XXX-XXXX

www.kidzschoolfinder.com/Jeffersoncitymopreschools.htm


And now I will say it. If Karen Brooke took Alyssa and her brothers and their half sister to raise, she had no business tending to somebody else's children and leaving these children so unsupervised. She knew there was a problem with Alyssa, and in the YouTubes and MySpace and other videos, we could see that they were unsupervised a lot of the time in very dangerous activities. Her husband had a pretty good job, so was it necessary for this to have happened? There was also another grown daughter (and her new husband!) in the house. It doesn't look to me, by what we found, that she was much help in watching their activities. 

Sorry, but I have been sitting on my hand for too long, and I have fire coming out my ears.  ::MonkeyMad::

Bustamante had been in care of her grandmother, Karen Brooke, since 2001, and Cook said her life at home was normal and structured.  She did chores and earned an allowance, and had no abnormal confrontations with her siblings.   ::MonkeyMad::   ::MonkeyMad::

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 18, 2009, 03:07:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1tw6pGZ0A&feature=youtube_gdata


One of her old youtube vids has been reposted


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:08:12 PM
I would like to know who the second grave was dig for ?

I wonder if they were in two different area's or dug out next to each other? 

I don't know. But if she went through with the murder of one, she surely had her eye on her next victim. I have any opinion, but I will not say. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:10:31 PM
http://www.ksdk.com/news/pdfs/bustamanteindictment.pdf

The indictment

Thanks! 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:12:58 PM
Judge enters not-guilty plea on behlaf of Bustamante

A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten because she did not have a lawyer present.

Alyssa Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in Olten’s murder.

There were no cameras allowed in the court room because Bustamante did not have a lawyer present.

Bustamante was assigned a public defender by the judge.

A grand jury handed down two indictments. Bustamante was indicted for first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

Earlier Wednesday, a police officer testified that Bustamante had confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379026


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: missbrandy on November 18, 2009, 03:16:45 PM
Ok i may not be that smart when it comes to this court stuff, but what i don't get is how can someone say "not guilty" when there is evidence saying that this was basically planned by Alyssa. I just don't understand andone want to help[ me ou t??? ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:17:03 PM
Grandma did run a daycare:

Kidz School Finder - Search Jefferson City Missouri Preschools ...
Karen Brooke Lomo Dr Jefferson City, Mo (573) XXX-XXXX

www.kidzschoolfinder.com/Jeffersoncitymopreschools.htm


And now I will say it. If Karen Brooke took Alyssa and her brothers and their half sister to raise, she had no business tending to somebody else's children and leaving these children so unsupervised. She knew there was a problem with Alyssa, and in the YouTubes and MySpace and other videos, we could see that they were unsupervised a lot of the time in very dangerous activities. Her husband had a pretty good job, so was it necessary for this to have happened? There was also another grown daughter (and her new husband!) in the house. It doesn't look to me, by what we found, that she was much help in watching their activities.  

Sorry, but I have been sitting on my hand for too long, and I have fire coming out my ears.  ::MonkeyMad::

BLOCKED WEBSITE

Her family did not know about all her internet activity IMO.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 03:17:17 PM
Judge enters not-guilty plea on behlaf of Bustamante

A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten because she did not have a lawyer present.

Alyssa Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in Olten’s murder.

There were no cameras allowed in the court room because Bustamante did not have a lawyer present.

Bustamante was assigned a public defender by the judge.

A grand jury handed down two indictments. Bustamante was indicted for first-degree murder and armed criminal action and could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

Earlier Wednesday, a police officer testified that Bustamante had confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379026


I HOPE LE there does shackes and cuffs like LE from my hometown, they "accidently" SLAM them TIGHT on the wrist... I dont know from personal experience, but have heard from many others.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 18, 2009, 03:20:21 PM
Jodibug 
Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 708 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibliophile 

Mental health services being what they are in Missouri, my bet is this "nearly daily" evaluation was a once a week visit to a therapist and then through her church or school

No, her attorney said that the Pathway's center sent a counselor to her house most days after school. He said they would discuss everything right down to what was being cooked for dinner, and that the grandmother and rest of the family were very involved and supportive of her counseling.
 (From WS, she was in the courtroom)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:20:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1tw6pGZ0A&feature=youtube_gdata


One of her old youtube vids has been reposted

I am hoping that with her name being released, people who grabbed Alyssa's stuff off the net before it was scrubbed clean, will now be reposting it .


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:23:08 PM
Jodibug 
Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 708 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibliophile 

Mental health services being what they are in Missouri, my bet is this "nearly daily" evaluation was a once a week visit to a therapist and then through her church or school

No, her attorney said that the Pathway's center sent a counselor to her house most days after school. He said they would discuss everything right down to what was being cooked for dinner, and that the grandmother and rest of the family were very involved and supportive of her counseling.
 (From WS, she was in the courtroom)


Thanks. So she had good grades, was good at deceiving the counsellor, and had this all planned out.  There is no way they can say she did not know what she was doing.  This was planned in spades. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 18, 2009, 03:23:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1tw6pGZ0A&feature=youtube_gdata


One of her old youtube vids has been reposted

I am hoping that with her name being released, people who grabbed Alyssa's stuff off the net before it was scrubbed clean, will now be reposting it .
http://www.youtube.com/user/Archivist2001#p/u/3/JAIJ5VUCc5U

this youtube user posted all of her original videos


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 03:27:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1tw6pGZ0A&feature=youtube_gdata


One of her old youtube vids has been reposted

I had never seen this video... thanks for posting this.  Even in this one, she is wanting her brothers to get hurt.... she obvioulsy likes seeing people in pain..... ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:27:46 PM
Ok i may not be that smart when it comes to this court stuff, but what i don't get is how can someone say "not guilty" when there is evidence saying that this was basically planned by Alyssa. I just don't understand andone want to help[ me ou t??? ::MonkeyRoll::

It is just routinely done to go forward with trial. They hope there will be some kind of evidence to get the off the hook brought up at trial. That is my non-leagleeze (sp?) version.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:29:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1tw6pGZ0A&feature=youtube_gdata


One of her old youtube vids has been reposted

I had never seen this video... thanks for posting this.  Even in this one, she is wanting her brothers to get hurt.... she obvioulsy likes seeing people in pain..... ::MonkeyMad::

Wait till you see the one at the electric fence where it wasn't enough that her brother got a bad shock and hit the ground, but she kicked him in the head to boot!  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:32:40 PM
NORTHERN, Do you have any document that shows ALL of the people who lived in the house with Alyssa, minus the Juvenile's names?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:34:18 PM
Teenager faces trial as adult
Youth services could not handle her, officials testify.


JEFFERSON CITY — Alyssa Bustamante, the 15-year-old charged in the murder of 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten nearly a month ago in St. Martins, was certified as an adult Wednesday in a Cole County hearing.

After the certification hearing Wednesday morning, Bustamante was formally indicted by a Cole County grand jury. The indictment included a count of first-degree murder, alleging that Bustamante knowingly caused Olten’s death by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her, and a count of armed criminal action.

A status hearing was set for Dec. 7, and she was referred to the public defender’s office for representation.

A series of youth professionals testified Wednesday morning that the Division of Youth Services in Missouri is not equipped to handle the girl’s treatment and detention, given the severity and sophistication of the crime.

If Bustamante had remained in the care of the juvenile system, she would have been required to be released at age 21. There are no “secure care” high-security facilities in the state for girls, an official testified, and more than 600 juveniles have escaped from youth services facilities over the past 10 years.

“To say that I’m disappointed with the status of the Division of Youth Services is an understatement,” Judge Jon Beetem said before making his ruling.

During testimony, Bustamante — with pale skin and long brown bangs that hung over her eyes —sat shackled in an orange prison jumpsuit. She was described as an excellent student. It was also revealed that she attempted suicide in 2007 and had a history of cutting herself.

She has been on the anti-depressant Prozac since 2007, and after a 10-day stay at Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center after the suicide attempt, she was evaluated nearly daily on an outpatient basis.

Bustamante and her younger siblings are under the guardianship of their maternal grandmother and have been since 2002. David Cook, chief juvenile officer and director of court services staff for Cole County, testified that Bustamante received extensive supervision from her grandparents and other family members and intensive treatment for her depression.

Division of Youth Services legal counsel Samantha Green, in her closing statement, painted Bustamante as a cold, calculating killer unfit for the juvenile system.

“She did a premeditated murder, and she had all the services in place,” Green said. “Her grandmother did everything she could for her, and she chose to do this.”

Earlier, Sgt. David Rice of the Missouri State Highway Patrol testified that Bustamante admitted to digging two graves near her home four days before Olten’s death. When Rice asked Bustamante why she had committed the murder, “she stated that she wanted to know what it felt like,” Rice said.

Bustamante had dabbled in Goth culture but was thought by therapists to have moved beyond that, according to testimony.

Bustamante’s court-appointed defense attorney, Kurt Valentine, said the decision to send his client to an adult prison is a “death sentence.”

“We don’t throw away the child,” Valentine said. “And that’s what we’re going to do if we certify her as an adult today and send her to the Department of Corrections. We’re throwing away the child, and we’re signing a death sentence for Alyssa.”

Valentine said there are no girls in DOC custody ages 13 to 15 anywhere in the state. He argued that this unusual situation would force prison wardens to keep her in a solitary cell 24 hours a day for her own protection. This, he said, would heighten her depression and suicidal tendencies.

“We can’t pretend that a 15-year-old is magically transformed into an adult just so we can punish her,” Valentine said.

Members of the Olten family sat in the front row of the tiny juvenile courtroom wearing pink T-shirts bearing Elizabeth’s name. After Beetem made his ruling, several dabbed at tears.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/nov/18/teen-certified-adult-olten-case/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:35:40 PM
NORTHERN, Do you have any document that shows ALL of the people who lived in the house with Alyssa, minus the Juvenile's names?

Yes I do based on the best info I could find. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 03:41:55 PM
 I just read the News ~ That AB is going to Trial as an Adult 
I have to say that this is the tell tale of AB's fate. I am finally believing that maybe there is justice in the system. Granted its not over till its over.
For Elizabeth's Sake and Soul this has been a very Good Day - A Victory for Elizabeth.  You all know me as the DJ and I am prompted to add a song. This song is of Victory for Elizabeth and yet is for AB as well. ( Her Future no longer exists due to her planned demise of Elizabeth)
This Song is for Alyssa and for many more on my list, MH ( Sandra) AD (Shaniya)
For anyone that creates Actions within the World that " Hurts" the innocent Purposely - due to their own  self destructive issues, For all that act out and destroy life as to them it has no meaning ....... I will let John Lennon Sing it
Lyrics Snipped:
Instant Karma's gonna get you,
Gonna knock you right on the head,
You better get yourself together,
Pretty soon you're gonna be dead,
What in the world you thinking of,
Laughing in the face of love,
What on earth you tryin' to do
Instant Karma's gonna get you,
Gonna knock you off your feet,
Better recognize your brothers,
Ev'ryone you meet,
Why in the world are we here,
Surely not to live in pain and fear,
Why on earth are you there,
When you're ev'rywhere,
Come and get your share.
Instant Karma
http://www.youtube.com/v/EqP3wT5lpa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0
Elizabeth, SANDRA and Shaniya will Always Shine On ~ Not because their lives were taken, but for who they were. Everyone's Daughter, Precious, Innocent, Love & Light.  :smt049



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:45:06 PM
<snipped>

Jefferson City Public Schools issued a statement Wednesday saying it had provided law enforcement and courts with documents and information that had been requested.  The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act prohibits school officials from publicly discussing students records.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 03:46:32 PM
I just read the News ~ That AB is going to Trial as an Adult 
I have to say that this is the tell tale of AB's fate. I am finally believing that maybe there is justice in the system. Granted its not over till its over.
For Elizabeth's Sake and Soul this has been a very Good Day - A Victory for Elizabeth.  You all know me as the DJ and I am prompted to add a song. This song is of Victory for Elizabeth and yet is for AB as well. ( Her Future no longer exists due to her planned demise of Elizabeth)
This Song is for Alyssa and for many more on my list, MH ( Sandra) AD (Shaniya)
For anyone that creates Actions within the World that " Hurts" the innocent Purposely - due to their own  self destructive issues, For all that act out and destroy life as to them it has no meaning ....... I will let John Lennon Sing it
Lyrics Snipped:
Instant Karma's gonna get you,
Gonna knock you right on the head,
You better get yourself together,
Pretty soon you're gonna be dead,
What in the world you thinking of,
Laughing in the face of love,
What on earth you tryin' to do
Instant Karma's gonna get you,
Gonna knock you off your feet,
Better recognize your brothers,
Ev'ryone you meet,
Why in the world are we here,
Surely not to live in pain and fear,
Why on earth are you there,
When you're ev'rywhere,
Come and get your share.
Instant Karma
http://www.youtube.com/v/EqP3wT5lpa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0
Elizabeth, SANDRA and Shaniya will Always Shine On ~ Not because their lives were taken, but for who they were. Everyone's Daughter, Precious, Innocent, Love & Light.  :smt049



 ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:50:57 PM
<snipped>

Jefferson City Public Schools issued a statement Wednesday saying it had provided law enforcement and courts with documents and information that had been requested.  The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act prohibits school officials from publicly discussing students records.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814


But her principal at her school could stand up in public court and say what a wonderful, good, non-troubling student she was??? Gimme a break!  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
DEENIE.  ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyKiss::

Good to see you. ::HelloKitty::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 18, 2009, 03:52:44 PM
I'm wondering from the indictment if Elizabeth died from all three things. . . strangulation, stabbing and slit throat.  :*(  If she died from strangulation, I don't know that the indictment would say AB had caused her death by all three of the above.  The ME would be able to pinpoint a cause of death, wouldn't he/she?  I have so many questions.  How did AB slit Elizabeth's throat and come home without people noticing, "Um, hey, girl, where's all the blood from?".  Unless, I guess, if she strangled Elizabeth first and slit her throat after her heart stopped beating, maybe there wouldn't be so much blood?  I dunno.  Sick thoughts.

I have an 8 year old little girl and she is so darn innocent.  I can't imagine what Elizabeth was thinking as she was being murdered.  I pray she was strangled first and unconscious for the rest of what this animal did to her. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 03:53:55 PM
NORTHERN, Do you have any document that shows ALL of the people who lived in the house with Alyssa, minus the Juvenile's names?

Yes I do based on the best info I could find. 

I'll defer to your judgement. It is better than mine.  ::MonkeyTease::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 03:59:00 PM
I'm wondering from the indictment if Elizabeth died from all three things. . . strangulation, stabbing and slit throat.  :*(  If she died from strangulation, I don't know that the indictment would say AB had caused her death by all three of the above.  The ME would be able to pinpoint a cause of death, wouldn't he/she?  I have so many questions.  How did AB slit Elizabeth's throat and come home without people noticing, "Um, hey, girl, where's all the blood from?".  Unless, I guess, if she strangled Elizabeth first and slit her throat after her heart stopped beating, maybe there wouldn't be so much blood?  I dunno.  Sick thoughts.

I have an 8 year old little girl and she is so darn innocent.  I can't imagine what Elizabeth was thinking as she was being murdered.  I pray she was strangled first and unconscious for the rest of what this animal did to her. 

I know here in Texas up to 3 "causes" can be listed on death certificate. IE my dads  DC named menigitis,and sepis complicated by alcohol abuse.

I would suspect EO's list all manner of brutality done to her. ,


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 18, 2009, 04:00:36 PM
I'm just so sad at this whole thing. I agree that Alyssa is a monster for doing this. And she should definately pay the price. But I can't help feeling that something went horribly wrong in this girl's life a long time ago for her to have "I just wanted to see what it felt like" attitude about killing someone. She actually tried to commit suicide when she was barely 13 years old. My God in heaven, my daughter is 13. Sure they had her seeing a therapist and had her on Prozac but I really think they just let this kid run wild. She should never have been in a regular school. Especially as depressed as she was with the cutting, drug use and questionable internet activity. She should have been receiving in house treatment. Then 2 lives would've been spared. Such a crying shame. All of it. Ugh.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: fatcatlurker on November 18, 2009, 04:09:42 PM

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/11/alyssa_bustamante_15_charged_w.php

Police aren't saying who was supposed to fill the second grave, but according to Sergeant David Rice of the Missouri Highway Patrol, Bustamante confessed to killing the little girl because she just "wanted to know what it felt like." The graves would imply premeditation, and police are pushing for first-degree murder charges.

Maybe an old article for you guys.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 04:14:08 PM
DEENIE.  ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyKiss::

Good to see you. ::HelloKitty::

Hello Ms. Fanny & Ms. Northern
I have been waiting for this day for Elizabeth " Just has everyone else has" and I am pleased.

I was thinking that the System may take Pity on AB for her age, background ... Seems though they actually looked at the Factual/forensics/Findings of Elizabeth's death.
Finally no Candy Coated Deals for Female Minors who Kill.  I hope that there is a Law created in Elizabeth's Name for " Minors who Murder Minors" that if its Murder 1 - Automatic Life Sentence and or DP.

I still can't wrap my brain around HOW AB had it within her to plan, to propose in her mind yet alone remove Elizabeth from life. It is so Disturbing beyond comprehension. Yet the positive of it all is that she/AB is in custody * and Charged. That this is not of an issue that " Someone" is living amongst us as the killer of Elizabeth Olten. (( As in Sommer Thompson))

Today was Victory yes, I wonder though how long it will take within the system for her to be sentenced. With the case that I have mentioned prior. The 15 yr old/male neighbor of mine who brutally, savagely took my 13 yr/female neighbors life. It took them less than 60 days ( once he was charged with Murder 1)  to sentence him to Life. Due to the Severity of the Crime  and the proof within forensics etc.

   We can only hope that this case moves along and Justice will be served for Elizabeth.




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 04:15:57 PM
I grabbed these in case they get scrubbed.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 18, 2009, 04:23:20 PM
DEENIE.  ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyKiss::

Good to see you. ::HelloKitty::

Hello Ms. Fanny & Ms. Northern
I have been waiting for this day for Elizabeth " Just has everyone else has" and I am pleased.

I was thinking that the System may take Pity on AB for her age, background ... Seems though they actually looked at the Factual/forensics/Findings of Elizabeth's death.
Finally no Candy Coated Deals for Female Minors who Kill.  I hope that there is a Law created in Elizabeth's Name for " Minors who Murder Minors" that if its Murder 1 - Automatic Life Sentence and or DP.

I still can't wrap my brain around HOW AB had it within her to plan, to propose in her mind yet alone remove Elizabeth from life. It is so Disturbing beyond comprehension. Yet the positive of it all is that she/AB is in custody * and Charged. That this is not of an issue that " Someone" is living amongst us as the killer of Elizabeth Olten. (( As in Sommer Thompson))

Today was Victory yes, I wonder though how long it will take within the system for her to be sentenced. With the case that I have mentioned prior. The 15 yr old/male neighbor of mine who brutally, savagely took my 13 yr/female neighbors life. It took them less than 60 days ( once he was charged with Murder 1)  to sentence him to Life. Due to the Severity of the Crime  and the proof within forensics etc.

   We can only hope that this case moves along and Justice will be served for Elizabeth.




I sure hope so Deenie.   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 04:26:04 PM
Bravo Northern.
There it is on Court record. I have no sympathy for AB what so ever. For whatever she has been dealt within her life -
JMO - ( not directed to anyone)
I cannot have any sympathy for AB due to this was Premeditated and Elizabeth was chosen by AB.  Elizabeth is the Victim. You cannot tell me that the majority or even minority of people who were abused, hurt, molested within their childhoods ... Go to such measures to HUNT and Plan the Murder of an innocent person... especially when the Hunter is a minor and the hunted is a minor as well.

No Tears from this Monkey - None. Not for AB.  Sorry Jmo.
I believe that some are just born evil ( irregardless of their environment)


 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 04:28:26 PM
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A Missouri grand jury has indicted a 15-year-old on a charge of first-degree murder in the slaying of her 9-year-old neighbor.

Alyssa Bustamante is accused of killing Elizabeth Olten by strangling the girl, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21.

Bustamante also is charged with armed criminal action for allegedly using a knife in the attack.

The indictment Wednesday came hours after a judge ruled Bustamante should stand trial as an adult. She is being held without bond in Cole County jail.

If convicted of first-degree murder, Bustamante could be sentenced to life in prison.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6727036.html

 ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 04:28:42 PM
Bravo Northern.
There it is on Court record. I have no sympathy for AB what so ever. For whatever she has been dealt within her life -
JMO - ( not directed to anyone)
I cannot have any sympathy for AB due to this was Premeditated and Elizabeth was chosen by AB.  Elizabeth is the Victim. You cannot tell me that the majority or even minority of people who were abused, hurt, molested within their childhoods ... Go to such measures to HUNT and Plan the Murder of an innocent person... especially when the Hunter is a minor and the hunted is a minor as well.

No Tears from this Monkey - None. Not for AB.  Sorry Jmo.
I believe that some are just born evil ( irregardless of their environment)


 




I can't find any sympathy for her either.... I just can't.  How do we know she hasn't killed before and wans't caught? ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 18, 2009, 04:29:11 PM
I wonder if the monster (sorry, I just can't use her name) chose Elizabeth or if Elizabeth was a victim of circumstance.  Clearly she had the two graves dug . . . I just wonder if it could have been nearly anyone she killed and Elizabeth was in the wrong place at the wrong time through no fault of her own.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 04:29:33 PM
DEENIE.  ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyKiss::

Good to see you. ::HelloKitty::

Hello Ms. Fanny & Ms. Northern
I have been waiting for this day for Elizabeth " Just has everyone else has" and I am pleased.

I was thinking that the System may take Pity on AB for her age, background ... Seems though they actually looked at the Factual/forensics/Findings of Elizabeth's death.
Finally no Candy Coated Deals for Female Minors who Kill.  I hope that there is a Law created in Elizabeth's Name for " Minors who Murder Minors" that if its Murder 1 - Automatic Life Sentence and or DP.

I still can't wrap my brain around HOW AB had it within her to plan, to propose in her mind yet alone remove Elizabeth from life. It is so Disturbing beyond comprehension. Yet the positive of it all is that she/AB is in custody * and Charged. That this is not of an issue that " Someone" is living amongst us as the killer of Elizabeth Olten. (( As in Sommer Thompson))

Today was Victory yes, I wonder though how long it will take within the system for her to be sentenced. With the case that I have mentioned prior. The 15 yr old/male neighbor of mine who brutally, savagely took my 13 yr/female neighbors life. It took them less than 60 days ( once he was charged with Murder 1)  to sentence him to Life. Due to the Severity of the Crime  and the proof within forensics etc.

   We can only hope that this case moves along and Justice will be served for Elizabeth.




I hope you are right but....

With all the stalling and the covering up that is already been happening in Jefferson City, I don't think this is going to be short and sweet. I believe it is going to be just like pulling teeth and drawn out as long as possible, with every detail being litigated. Wait till we see what high price, high profile defense lawyer is going to want to get his mitts on this. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 04:31:45 PM
I'm wondering from the indictment if Elizabeth died from all three things. . . strangulation, stabbing and slit throat.  :*(  If she died from strangulation, I don't know that the indictment would say AB had caused her death by all three of the above.  The ME would be able to pinpoint a cause of death, wouldn't he/she?  I have so many questions.  How did AB slit Elizabeth's throat and come home without people noticing, "Um, hey, girl, where's all the blood from?".  Unless, I guess, if she strangled Elizabeth first and slit her throat after her heart stopped beating, maybe there wouldn't be so much blood?  I dunno.  Sick thoughts.

I have an 8 year old little girl and she is so darn innocent.  I can't imagine what Elizabeth was thinking as she was being murdered.  I pray she was strangled first and unconscious for the rest of what this animal did to her. 

I know here in Texas up to 3 "causes" can be listed on death certificate. IE my dads  DC named menigitis,and sepis complicated by alcohol abuse.

I would suspect EO's list all manner of brutality done to her. ,

Sorry, TxFlame.  :smt056


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 04:34:41 PM
I'm wondering from the indictment if Elizabeth died from all three things. . . strangulation, stabbing and slit throat.  :*(  If she died from strangulation, I don't know that the indictment would say AB had caused her death by all three of the above.  The ME would be able to pinpoint a cause of death, wouldn't he/she?  I have so many questions.  How did AB slit Elizabeth's throat and come home without people noticing, "Um, hey, girl, where's all the blood from?".  Unless, I guess, if she strangled Elizabeth first and slit her throat after her heart stopped beating, maybe there wouldn't be so much blood?  I dunno.  Sick thoughts.

I have an 8 year old little girl and she is so darn innocent.  I can't imagine what Elizabeth was thinking as she was being murdered.  I pray she was strangled first and unconscious for the rest of what this animal did to her. 

I know here in Texas up to 3 "causes" can be listed on death certificate. IE my dads  DC named menigitis,and sepis complicated by alcohol abuse.

I would suspect EO's list all manner of brutality done to her. ,

Sorry, TxFlame.  :smt056

Ty I long ago accepted what is/was. I loved my daddy dearly and miss him teribly, but he chose a rough path through life. I only used that as an example for DC.. basically saying casue and effect are often listed.. (((((Hugs))))) back


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 04:37:03 PM
I wonder if it was determined by the ME that Elizabeth could have died from any of those 3 things?

In other words, if the weapon had been used on her first, and it didn't happen quick enough for Alyssa so she commenced to using her hands - but if she had not, Elizabeth could have died from her other wounds?

And I also wonder if Alyssa had made preparations for a change of clothes for herself - since she was so well prepared with everything else?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 04:37:28 PM
I'm just so sad at this whole thing. I agree that Alyssa is a monster for doing this. And she should definately pay the price. But I can't help feeling that something went horribly wrong in this girl's life a long time ago for her to have "I just wanted to see what it felt like" attitude about killing someone. She actually tried to commit suicide when she was barely 13 years old. My God in heaven, my daughter is 13. Sure they had her seeing a therapist and had her on Prozac but I really think they just let this kid run wild. She should never have been in a regular school. Especially as depressed as she was with the cutting, drug use and questionable internet activity. She should have been receiving in house treatment. Then 2 lives would've been spared. Such a crying shame. All of it. Ugh.

With both parents being druggies, and one in jail right now, I am sure her growing up years were tough. And you are right, she probably needed much more focused treatment than what she was getting. She still didn't have to kill Elizabeth.  Both the dad and the brother of Elizabeth are in prison right now. But I don't think she deserved to be murdered either. I think
running wild is a good description of Alyssa. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 04:39:11 PM
I haven't read completely back yet, but why was Kurt Valentine not at her arraignment with her?

Didn't he consider it "dangerous" for her to appear without an atty?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 04:40:16 PM
and I completely disagree with him that this is a death sentence.  That girl will have the best of protection - considering that she tried to cut her wrists with her fingernails just recently.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 04:41:17 PM
Hello!! This is my first post on ScaredMonkey! I LOVE this website...thank GOD there are compassionate people out there with a HEART! Thank you for all the updates on this case. I have been dying to write on this forum but wasn't accepted! Today is my lucky day! ::MonkeyCheer2::

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but WHY or HOW could any attorney fathom the thought of ANYONE caring if something happened to Alyssa in jail??? I know that sounds mean but Elizabeth had NO choice whether she died or not....she took ELIZABETH'S INNOCENCE away and clearly Alyssa is NO victim in this case! As far as I am concerned.. lock her up with the most dangerous people there and throw away the key!  ::MonkeyGavel::

OK...venting done.. I promise I am a nice person! haha  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 04:43:40 PM
I'm wondering from the indictment if Elizabeth died from all three things. . . strangulation, stabbing and slit throat.  :*(  If she died from strangulation, I don't know that the indictment would say AB had caused her death by all three of the above.  The ME would be able to pinpoint a cause of death, wouldn't he/she?  I have so many questions.  How did AB slit Elizabeth's throat and come home without people noticing, "Um, hey, girl, where's all the blood from?".  Unless, I guess, if she strangled Elizabeth first and slit her throat after her heart stopped beating, maybe there wouldn't be so much blood?  I dunno.  Sick thoughts.

I have an 8 year old little girl and she is so darn innocent.  I can't imagine what Elizabeth was thinking as she was being murdered.  I pray she was strangled first and unconscious for the rest of what this animal did to her. 

It is my opinion that she died from the knife, hence the armed criminal action charge......:)  They wouldn't have charged her with that if she died of strangulation.....unless that charge is because she tortured her and forced her with the knife and then finished her off by strangling her.  Although she performed post mortum "cuts or stabs" with the knife, she wouldn't have been charges with ACA for using it after the fact.  She def. used it before EO died.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 04:44:02 PM
From Cole County Courthouse: Alyssa Bustamante's arraignment was delayed until Dec. 7 @ 9am because Bustamante doesn't have a lawyer yet^JLR

http://twitter.com/KOMUnews


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 04:45:49 PM
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/11/18/olten.indictment.pdf

Presser from DAs office


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 04:46:01 PM
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC..but would all my friends here please check out this website I built for an unidentified girl out of Texas. She has gone 30 years with no name. I need to get as many hits as possible to get the site in good search engines. I understand with all that is going on now, it maybe awhile before you all can check it out, just please book mark it..and read through the info.

http://walkercountyjanedoe1980.webs.com

TIA

Txsflame - I posted it on my facebook and will spend some time in the morning posting it elsewhere.

Beautiful girl.  Horrible that she hasn't been identified.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 18, 2009, 04:47:02 PM
I'm just so sad at this whole thing. I agree that Alyssa is a monster for doing this. And she should definately pay the price. But I can't help feeling that something went horribly wrong in this girl's life a long time ago for her to have "I just wanted to see what it felt like" attitude about killing someone. She actually tried to commit suicide when she was barely 13 years old. My God in heaven, my daughter is 13. Sure they had her seeing a therapist and had her on Prozac but I really think they just let this kid run wild. She should never have been in a regular school. Especially as depressed as she was with the cutting, drug use and questionable internet activity. She should have been receiving in house treatment. Then 2 lives would've been spared. Such a crying shame. All of it. Ugh.

With both parents being druggies, and one in jail right now, I am sure her growing up years were tough. And you are right, she probably needed much more focused treatment than what she was getting. She still didn't have to kill Elizabeth.  Both the dad and the brother of Elizabeth are in prison right now. But I don't think she deserved to be murdered either. I think
running wild is a good description of Alyssa. JMO



Yes you're certainly right Fanny-There is no excuse for what Alyssa did and Elizabeth should have had her life to live. I guess it just hurts my heart to see kids killing other kids. Seems like kids are so disposable nowadays. There are people who have them and don't want the responsibility, or their own parents abuse or kill them. Now we have kids killing each other over nothing. This morning in my local paper was an article about boys that were friends for YEARS, had sleepovers. They had a falling out a few weeks ago  and one boy lured the other and shot him;killing him. Ages--14 year old murderer--16 year old victim. It seems like these kids can't see ahead to their own futures. They just live in the moment without realizing the consequences for actions that could cost them the rest of their lives.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 04:47:18 PM
Hello!! This is my first post on ScaredMonkey! I LOVE this website...thank GOD there are compassionate people out there with a HEART! Thank you for all the updates on this case. I have been dying to write on this forum but wasn't accepted! Today is my lucky day! ::MonkeyCheer2::

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but WHY or HOW could any attorney fathom the thought of ANYONE caring if something happened to Alyssa in jail??? I know that sounds mean but Elizabeth had NO choice whether she died or not....she took ELIZABETH'S INNOCENCE away and clearly Alyssa is NO victim in this case! As far as I am concerned.. lock her up with the most dangerous people there and throw away the key!  ::MonkeyGavel::

OK...venting done.. I promise I am a nice person! haha  ::MonkeyAngel::

welcome!

 ::MonkeyCheer2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 04:50:37 PM
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC..but would all my friends here please check out this website I built for an unidentified girl out of Texas. She has gone 30 years with no name. I need to get as many hits as possible to get the site in good search engines. I understand with all that is going on now, it maybe awhile before you all can check it out, just please book mark it..and read through the info.

http://walkercountyjanedoe1980.webs.com

TIA

Txsflame - I posted it on my facebook and will spend some time in the morning posting it elsewhere.

Beautiful girl.  Horrible that she hasn't been identified.


 TY so much, I do not want to take away from Elizabeths site, but please let me say right quick thanks to ALLL who have visited... My numbers have jumped greatly since I posted this Am. I want her pic out there,  So from here on out I will stay on topic, I just felt she (my JD) deserved some publicity and am having trouble getting the site out and needed help. I KNEW the wonderful people her would come through for HER!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 04:50:52 PM
Hello!! This is my first post on ScaredMonkey! I LOVE this website...thank GOD there are compassionate people out there with a HEART! Thank you for all the updates on this case. I have been dying to write on this forum but wasn't accepted! Today is my lucky day! ::MonkeyCheer2::

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but WHY or HOW could any attorney fathom the thought of ANYONE caring if something happened to Alyssa in jail??? I know that sounds mean but Elizabeth had NO choice whether she died or not....she took ELIZABETH'S INNOCENCE away and clearly Alyssa is NO victim in this case! As far as I am concerned.. lock her up with the most dangerous people there and throw away the key!  ::MonkeyGavel::

OK...venting done.. I promise I am a nice person! haha  ::MonkeyAngel::


Glad to have you here..... WELCOME!  ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 04:58:34 PM
Hello!! This is my first post on ScaredMonkey! I LOVE this website...thank GOD there are compassionate people out there with a HEART! Thank you for all the updates on this case. I have been dying to write on this forum but wasn't accepted! Today is my lucky day! ::MonkeyCheer2::

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but WHY or HOW could any attorney fathom the thought of ANYONE caring if something happened to Alyssa in jail??? I know that sounds mean but Elizabeth had NO choice whether she died or not....she took ELIZABETH'S INNOCENCE away and clearly Alyssa is NO victim in this case! As far as I am concerned.. lock her up with the most dangerous people there and throw away the key!  ::MonkeyGavel::

OK...venting done.. I promise I am a nice person! haha  ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME Louisiana5487   ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 05:05:44 PM
I haven't read completely back yet, but why was Kurt Valentine not at her arraignment with her?

Didn't he consider it "dangerous" for her to appear without an atty?

If you read back there is an article that states he is excused if it goes to adult court as he is a Juvi defense lawyer.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:08:29 PM
From Cole County Courthouse: Alyssa Bustamante's arraignment was delayed until Dec. 7 @ 9am because Bustamante doesn't have a lawyer yet^JLR

http://twitter.com/KOMUnews

The judge appointed her a public defender. More stall tactics, folks...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:09:18 PM
WELCOME LOUISIANNA5487!  ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 05:10:09 PM
Alyssa Bustamante, 15, Charged as Adult for Murder of Elizabeth Olten, 9

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- A Missouri grand jury has indicted 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante on on a charge of first-degree murder in slaying of a 9-year-old girl. The grand jury indictment filed Wednesday accuses Bustamante of killing Elizabeth Olten by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21, the day Elizabeth went missing.

A police officer testified Wednesday that a 15-year-old girl told investigators she killed a 9-year-old neighbor because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone, as a judge ruled the teen should stand trial as an adult. Bustamante is also charged with armed criminal action for using a knife in the attack.

Police testified that Elizabeth Olten did nothing to provoke the attack against her, and that the teenage suspect led authorities to the girl's body after they questioned her.

Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem ruled that the slaying was vicious and that the state had no adequate facilities or services to treat the suspect if she stayed in the juvenile court system.

The teen, who sat silently through the proceedings in an orange prison jumpsuit and handcuffs, was arrested on an adult charge of first-degree murder. She was scheduled to be arraigned later Wednesday.

The charges in adult court were filed just hours after Bustamante had been certified to stand trial as an adult. She's being held in the Cole County jail with no bond.

Hundreds of people searched for Elizabeth when she did not return home on Oct. 21 from a neighbor's house in St. Martin's, west of Jefferson City. Authorities have not released details about how Elizabeth was killed or why she was chosen, and those details did not come out during the hearing.

Juvenile officers testified Wednesday that Alyssa previously considered committing suicide and had been receiving treatment for depression for a few years before Elizabeth's death.

A Missouri State Highway Patrol officer testified that Alyssa admitted to digging two holes on Oct. 16 with the intention of burying Elizabeth -- a sign that juvenile officers said showed the girl's killing was premeditated.

Throughout the hearing, it was assumed that Alyssa committed the killing, which is a legal requirement under state law for conducting adult certification hearings. However, Alyssa's attorney objected repeatedly when attorneys tried to introduce into evidence specific details about the killing.

Juvenile defense attorney Kurt Valentine argued that Alyssa would either kill herself or be assaulted and killed by others if she were placed with adults in a jail cell while awaiting trial or in a prison if convicted.

"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa," Valentine said. "She is not going to survive her time in the Cole County jail."

Alyssa appeared in court with straight, shoulder-length brown hair, with bangs frequently covering her eyes. Her mother and grandmother sat on one side of the courtroom. The grandmother has been Alyssa's legal guardian for about half of her life.

On the other side of the courtroom sat Elizabeth's mother, other family members and friends, some of whom wore pink shirts, which was Elizabeth's favorite color.

State juvenile officials said Missouri has no secure facilities to house female juvenile offenders and would have had to renovate a facility and create a specific supervision plan had Alyssa been kept in juvenile custody.

If convicted of first-degree murder, the teen could be sentenced to up to life in prison.

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-bustamante-charged-as-adult-murder-111809,0,4625663.story?track=rss


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 05:12:53 PM
Hello!! This is my first post on ScaredMonkey! I LOVE this website...thank GOD there are compassionate people out there with a HEART! Thank you for all the updates on this case. I have been dying to write on this forum but wasn't accepted! Today is my lucky day! ::MonkeyCheer2::

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but WHY or HOW could any attorney fathom the thought of ANYONE caring if something happened to Alyssa in jail??? I know that sounds mean but Elizabeth had NO choice whether she died or not....she took ELIZABETH'S INNOCENCE away and clearly Alyssa is NO victim in this case! As far as I am concerned.. lock her up with the most dangerous people there and throw away the key!  ::MonkeyGavel::

OK...venting done.. I promise I am a nice person! haha  ::MonkeyAngel::

Welcome to SM ~ Ms Louisiana ::MonkeyCool::

The System is now the Parents ( basically) of AB. They cannot and will not allow anything to happen to her nor for her to cause herself bodily harm. It is the Law. They are responsible for Her and have to do everything possible to keep her " in the same health/condition " as she was when she was put into their custody.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:14:30 PM
WELCOME LOUISIANNA5487!  ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel::


"Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez!!" Love me some Louisiana!!!!  ::MonkeyCheer2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 05:15:30 PM
Meet Alyssa Bustamante; A 15-Year-old Killer (Photos) Going To Prison?

A 15-year-old girl named Alyssa Bustamante has been arrested and is going to court over killing a 9-year-old named Elizabeth Olten. She is to be tried as an adult according to reports after lawmakers found out the viciousness of her attack.

Bustamante stabbed, strangled, and cut the throat of the 9-year-old girl named Elizabeth Olten. When police asked why she killed the girl she said she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

Bustamante dug two shallow graves before killing Olten. Bustamante had a record of trying to commit suicide and was on the antidepressant known as prozac.

There is now a fight on whether or not to be her in an adult jail or possibly even a mental institution. Her lawyer is desperately fighting to keep her out of jail. It's hard to believe that is the face of a killer.

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212268807.shtml


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:15:41 PM
Hello!! This is my first post on ScaredMonkey! I LOVE this website...thank GOD there are compassionate people out there with a HEART! Thank you for all the updates on this case. I have been dying to write on this forum but wasn't accepted! Today is my lucky day! ::MonkeyCheer2::

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but WHY or HOW could any attorney fathom the thought of ANYONE caring if something happened to Alyssa in jail??? I know that sounds mean but Elizabeth had NO choice whether she died or not....she took ELIZABETH'S INNOCENCE away and clearly Alyssa is NO victim in this case! As far as I am concerned.. lock her up with the most dangerous people there and throw away the key!  ::MonkeyGavel::

OK...venting done.. I promise I am a nice person! haha  ::MonkeyAngel::

Welcome to SM ~ Ms Louisiana ::MonkeyCool::

The System is now the Parents ( basically) of AB. They cannot and will not allow anything to happen to her nor for her to cause herself bodily harm. It is the Law. They are responsible for Her and have to do everything possible to keep her " in the same health/condition " as she was when she was put into their custody.





Too bad Elizabeth wasn't afforded the same protection.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 05:19:00 PM
The Monster's Mugshot

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:20:03 PM
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/50570999-18141013-400225.jpg)

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-bustamante-charged-as-adult-murder-111809,0,4625663.story?track=rss


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 05:20:07 PM
Northern
In regards to the article you just posted.
You know more about the Atty's and the system within your area.
Where are they going to " Keep" Miss AB ?

 I would think that they will have to make " special accommodations" for her * by Law, due to her being a minor female. If they do not have a facility for her where do you think they will put her?
House Arrest at a place within Social Services ?? I have no clue. Hoping you may have ideas or answers.






Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:20:36 PM
The Monster's Mugshot

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

I'm quitting!  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 05:25:40 PM
The Monster's Mugshot

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

She looked so much better as a juggalette...............no, seriously....... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 05:26:13 PM
Northern
In regards to the article you just posted.
You know more about the Atty's and the system within your area.
Where are they going to " Keep" Miss AB ?

 I would think that they will have to make " special accommodations" for her * by Law, due to her being a minor female. If they do not have a facility for her where do you think they will put her?
House Arrest at a place within Social Services ?? I have no clue. Hoping you may have ideas or answers.






Deenie, I am not in MO.  If she were up here there are some nice cold and remote places that would be great for her complexion.    I hope she goes to general population.  I suspect they will make a special isolation cell for her.  The mental institute will be a hard cell as her principle stated she was in the top 1/3 of her class, she planned this so well and hid Elizabeth better than any of the searchers could find her body without taking LE to the spot.  Cole County Jail was built in 1896 so they must have a few dungeons still I would hope.   ::MonkeyDevil2::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 05:26:50 PM
The Monster's Mugshot

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

I'm quitting!  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 05:27:35 PM
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- A judge ordered a 15-year-old girl to stand trial as an adult for the slaying of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, whose disappearance last month touched off a two-day search. Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem ruled Wednesday that the crime was serious and vicious. Beetem also said the state has no adequate facilities or services to treat Alkyssa Bustamante if she were to remain in the juvenile court system.

Immediately after the judge's ruling on Wednesday morning, Cole County sheriff's deputies arrested Bustamante on a first-degree murder charge. Within hours, prosecutors filed a grand jury indictment of first-degree murder. An indictment speeds the case through the court system by sending it directly to circuit court, skipping the need for a preliminary hearing in associate circuit court.

The indictment accuses Bustamante of killing Elizabeth by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21, the day that Elizabeth disappeared. Elizabeth had been visiting Bustamante's sister and disappeared on the short walk to her own home. Bustamante also is charged with armed criminal action because a knife was used in the attack.

Bustamante appeared briefly before a judge on Wednesday afternoon. She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

At the hearing on Wednesday morning, a police officer testified Bustamante confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

If convicted of first-degree murder, she faces a life prison sentence with no chance of parole. The law doesn't allow her to face a death penalty because of her age.

Bustamante is is custody with no bond.

http://www.ky3.com/news/local/70376722.html

PS. read some of the comments....interesting.......


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 05:30:14 PM
Looking at the Photo MUGS of AB. She does not look anything like her own posted photo's (social sites) what so ever.  The pics on the social sites must be at best when she was 12, 13.
In the Mug shot, She looks older, and she also looks like she has no Soul.

Not that a Mug Shot is a determination of one's person. She looks Pale and she as well looks like she could put out a mighty blow .. meaning she looks rough and tough. More so she looks empty.
She looks just like what she is a "Convict".


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 05:30:56 PM
Hello!! This is my first post on ScaredMonkey! I LOVE this website...thank GOD there are compassionate people out there with a HEART! Thank you for all the updates on this case. I have been dying to write on this forum but wasn't accepted! Today is my lucky day! ::MonkeyCheer2::

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but WHY or HOW could any attorney fathom the thought of ANYONE caring if something happened to Alyssa in jail??? I know that sounds mean but Elizabeth had NO choice whether she died or not....she took ELIZABETH'S INNOCENCE away and clearly Alyssa is NO victim in this case! As far as I am concerned.. lock her up with the most dangerous people there and throw away the key!  ::MonkeyGavel::

OK...venting done.. I promise I am a nice person! haha  ::MonkeyAngel::

Welcome to SM ~ Ms Louisiana ::MonkeyCool::

The System is now the Parents ( basically) of AB. They cannot and will not allow anything to happen to her nor for her to cause herself bodily harm. It is the Law. They are responsible for Her and have to do everything possible to keep her " in the same health/condition " as she was when she was put into their custody.





Too bad Elizabeth wasn't afforded the same protection.  ::MonkeyMad::

Thank you all for the wonderful greetings :) I love this place!


Deenie- Ugh, sadly that makes sense :( I guess for legal reasons they have to make sure she stays safe but it IS hard to swallow. I can't imagine working in a prison and "making sure Alyssa was safe". That would kill me.

And Fanny Mae..you make such a great point. It is not fair that we would be paying TAX DOLLARS to give a killer special attention (that is IF they give Alyssa extra security or other things to keep her safe) They should put a picture of Elizabeth in her room so she has to go to bed every night looking into the face of that perfect little girl that she killed!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 05:31:47 PM
The Monster's Mugshot

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

Boy did murder age her.... she no longer even looks like a child... sad really.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 05:32:35 PM
·  4 hours ago
What this article does not say is that she DUG 2 graves!! She had planned on killing one more person. Word around JC here is that it was going to be her little sister. I live in JC and there is way more to the story than what is being said here. She told the police detective that she killed her because she wanted to see what it felt like. To me that is very premeditated!

  3 hours ago
She strangled this poor little girl & when that didn't work, she stabbed her & cut her throat. Now please tell me how you still do not think this should be charged with 1st degree murder?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 05:39:46 PM
DA Statement


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 05:40:38 PM
the judge indicated that Bustamante would not be held in Cole County, but didn't say where she will be held
about 1 hour ago from web

http://twitter.com/krcg



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:45:53 PM
Northern
In regards to the article you just posted.
You know more about the Atty's and the system within your area.
Where are they going to " Keep" Miss AB ?

 I would think that they will have to make " special accommodations" for her * by Law, due to her being a minor female. If they do not have a facility for her where do you think they will put her?
House Arrest at a place within Social Services ?? I have no clue. Hoping you may have ideas or answers.






Deenie, I am not in MO.  If she were up here there are some nice cold and remote places that would be great for her complexion.    I hope she goes to general population.  I suspect they will make a special isolation cell for her.  The mental institute will be a hard cell as her principle stated she was in the top 1/3 of her class, she planned this so well and hid Elizabeth better than any of the searchers could find her body without taking LE to the spot.  Cole County Jail was built in 1896 so they must have a few dungeons still I would hope.   ::MonkeyDevil2::


::MonkeyCool:: Cool place. She deserves no better. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:49:16 PM
The Monster's Mugshot

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

She looked so much better as a juggalette...............no, seriously....... ::MonkeyNoNo::

That a...a..."spark," yeah, I guess that's the word, seems to have gone out.  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 18, 2009, 05:51:59 PM
The Monster's Mugshot

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

She looked so much better as a juggalette...............no, seriously....... ::MonkeyNoNo::

That a...a..."spark," yeah, I guess that's the word, seems to have gone out.  ::MonkeyDevil2::

Yep.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: mizjay on November 18, 2009, 05:53:05 PM
Meet Alyssa Bustamante; A 15-Year-old Killer (Photos) Going To Prison?

A 15-year-old girl named Alyssa Bustamante has been arrested and is going to court over killing a 9-year-old named Elizabeth Olten. She is to be tried as an adult according to reports after lawmakers found out the viciousness of her attack.

Bustamante stabbed, strangled, and cut the throat of the 9-year-old girl named Elizabeth Olten. When police asked why she killed the girl she said she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

Bustamante dug two shallow graves before killing Olten. Bustamante had a record of trying to commit suicide and was on the antidepressant known as prozac.

There is now a fight on whether or not to be her in an adult jail or possibly even a mental institution. Her lawyer is desperately fighting to keep her out of jail. It's hard to believe that is the face of a killer.

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212268807.shtml

Well now that she knows what it feels like to kill someone, now she can know what it feels like to be an  accused then convicted felon in prison too. It's too good for her


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 05:54:51 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: mizjay on November 18, 2009, 05:56:44 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 

Youbetcha!     still wondering who the other shallow grave was for????/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:57:06 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 

Maybe she should have stuck with torturing her brothers. I guess that got old.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:58:03 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 

Youbetcha!     still wondering who the other shallow grave was for????/

I don't think it was for herself.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 05:58:31 PM
Northern
In regards to the article you just posted.
You know more about the Atty's and the system within your area.
Where are they going to " Keep" Miss AB ?

 I would think that they will have to make " special accommodations" for her * by Law, due to her being a minor female. If they do not have a facility for her where do you think they will put her?
House Arrest at a place within Social Services ?? I have no clue. Hoping you may have ideas or answers.

Deenie, I am not in MO.  If she were up here there are some nice cold and remote places that would be great for her complexion.    I hope she goes to general population.  I suspect they will make a special isolation cell for her.  The mental institute will be a hard cell as her principle stated she was in the top 1/3 of her class, she planned this so well and hid Elizabeth better than any of the searchers could find her body without taking LE to the spot.  Cole County Jail was built in 1896 so they must have a few dungeons still I would hope.   ::MonkeyDevil2::

::MonkeyCool:: Cool place. She deserves no better. JMO

This look like the No Tell Hotel For sake of a Worse place - It is. It is a Prison that has been since the early 1900's - now Abandon. I have driven by it countless times. It is just one long song from my family's property. Every time you drive by it .. chills run. This is not even the best Pic - Just a Pic of it. AB's future. I have no crystal ball ... just foresee it.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/boxah104/dhocosalem-1.jpg)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 18, 2009, 05:59:29 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 05:59:38 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 

Truthfully, I don't think it was the killing of someone. I think it was getting caught for it. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 06:02:04 PM
Video

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/15-year-old-girl-to-stand-trial-as-adult-in-murder-of-Missouri-girl-70370022.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 06:02:12 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 

Truthfully, I don't think it was the killing of someone. I think it was getting caught for it. JMO

I guess I should have said that she discovered the RESULTS of killing someone ain't so grand.  I stand corrected!
 ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 18, 2009, 06:02:18 PM
She looks utterly terrible--her eyes are completely dead. I wonder if they have her medicated. If she's taking prozac she has to continue it. Quitting that cold turkey is dangerous. They have her on something for sure.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 06:02:28 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.

OOHH! I am sitting on my hands!!!   ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: mizjay on November 18, 2009, 06:03:29 PM
Looking at the Photo MUGS of AB. She does not look anything like her own posted photo's (social sites) what so ever.  The pics on the social sites must be at best when she was 12, 13.
In the Mug shot, She looks older, and she also looks like she has no Soul.

Not that a Mug Shot is a determination of one's person. She looks Pale and she as well looks like she could put out a mighty blow .. meaning she looks rough and tough. More so she looks empty.
She looks just like what she is a "Convict".


Probably by the time she goes to trial she'll be cute as a button. Hair in side pony tails, bows, sweater set, skirt......yada, blah, blah  I never understood why lawyers seem to go overboard when trying to clean up criminals for court, sheesh


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 06:03:42 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 

Truthfully, I don't think it was the killing of someone. I think it was getting caught for it. JMO
ITA Ms. Fanny - I think she thought she would get away with it. WHY because she planned it. She planned it in her fantasy first and then she went through with it.  Why would she ( at that time even consider being Caught for the Act) She would Not. Not part of her Plan. No way.




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 06:04:50 PM
Guess she discovered the feeling of killing someone isn't so grand? 

Truthfully, I don't think it was the killing of someone. I think it was getting caught for it. JMO

I guess I should have said that she discovered the RESULTS of killing someone ain't so grand.  I stand corrected!
 ::MonkeyTongue::
::MonkeyDevil:: I wasn't correcting you. I agree!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 06:05:04 PM
I personally think her mugshot speaks volumes.(do we know if that is todays mugshot, or the original one)  In most court cases I have seen, the defendant is dressed nicely, in "street clothes" provided by their family. I am wondering if this means even gparents have had enough... and arent supporting her at all?? Also wonder how her "mother" feels about the monster she created??  I am actually waiting for her druggy self to start bawling on TV.

 I have no sympathy for Alyssa, btu I DO think her mother deserves to face charges for creating a monster...  JMHO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: mizjay on November 18, 2009, 06:06:48 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.

OOHH! I am sitting on my hands!!!   ::MonkeyDevil2::

C'mon FANNY  cat got your tongue?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 06:09:13 PM
I personally think her mugshot speaks volumes.(do we know if that is todays mugshot, or the original one)  In most court cases I have seen, the defendant is dressed nicely, in "street clothes" provided by their family. I am wondering if this means even gparents have had enough... and arent supporting her at all?? Also wonder how her "mother" feels about the monster she created??  I am actually waiting for her druggy self to start bawling on TV.

 I have no sympathy for Alyssa, btu I DO think her mother deserves to face charges for creating a monster...  JMHO
I gotta draw the line here.  Parents cannot be held responsible for the crimes their kids commit.  Granted, parents play a large role in how their kids turn out but sometimes even the best of parents can't stop a kid from doing bad things.  JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 06:09:58 PM
Police: Mo. teen dug grave anticipating murder
By DAVID A. LIEB Associated Press Writers © 2009 The Associated Press
Nov. 18, 2009, 4:53PM
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Blessed with a Friday off school, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante dug two holes in the ground to be used as a grave, authorities said. For the next week, she attended classes, all the while plotting the right time for a murder, they said.
That time arrived the evening of Oct. 21, when Bustamante strangled 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten without provocation, cut the girl's throat and stabbed her, prosecutors said. Why?

"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like," Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice testified Wednesday during a court hearing over the slaying.

Rice, who interviewed Bustamante in the days after Elizabeth's disappearance, said she confessed to investigators and led them to the fourth grader's well-concealed body in a wooded area near their neighborhood in St. Martins, a small town west of Jefferson City.

A Cole County judge ruled Wednesday that Bustamante, who has been held in Missouri's juvenile justice system, should be tried as an adult. Hours later, the teen was indicted on adult charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action for allegedly using a knife to kill Elizabeth. A judge later entered a not guilty plea on Bustamante's behalf and referred her to the public defender's office.

The court proceedings marked the first time that the suspect in Elizabeth's death had been publicly identified since a two-day search for the girl by hundreds of volunteers. When they found Elizabeth's body Oct. 23, authorities only said that a 15-year-old had led them to it and was in custody for the slaying.

Bustamante remained largely expressionless as she sat with her hands shackled around her waist in court Wednesday. She occasionally looked down beneath the brown bangs that covered her eyes and swallowed hard as a judge read the charges against her.

On one side of the courtroom sat her mother and grandmother, who has been Bustamante's legal guardian for about half of her life. On the other side sat Elizabeth's mother, relatives and friends, several of whom wore pink — Elizabeth's favorite color.

Bustamante was ordered held without bond pending her trial. If convicted of first-degree murder, she would be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Witnesses at Bustamante's adult certification hearing described a girl who was bright yet depressed and clever in a sometimes sneaky sort of way. She ranked in roughly the top third of her class at Jefferson City High School, the principal said, and had been in no trouble at school or with the law.

Yet Bustamante had tried to commit suicide at age 13 and had been receiving mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself, said David Cook, the chief juvenile officer in Cole County. Once, she led her family to believe she was attending a local church event when she instead sneaked off to a concert in St. Louis, about two hours away, Cook said. On one or two other occasions, Bustamante spent the night in the woods without permission, he said.

After her arrest, Bustamante tried to cut herself with her own fingernails while being held in juvenile custody, said her appointed juvenile defense attorney Kurt Valentine.

He argued Bustamante should remain in the juvenile system, where she could potentially be rehabilitated before being set free by age 21. Valentine warned that Bustamante would either kill herself or be assaulted and killed by others if she were placed in an adult jail cell or prison.

"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa," Valentine said. "She is not going to survive her time in the Cole County jail."

Cole County Sheriff Greg White said later that Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

Cook recommended Bustamante be tied as an adult. Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem agreed, saying the killing was vicious and that the state had no adequate facilities or services to treat Bustamante if she remained in the juvenile system.

Bill Heberle, with the Missouri Division of Youth Services, testified that the state has no secure facilities with fences for female juveniles. Youths in Missouri's juvenile system generally are housed in group settings and are not typically watched by staff 24 hours a day, he said.

___


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 06:10:24 PM
NG looks like tonight's show is going to be up Shaniya.  She just set up a blog for Elizabeth.  The more comments the more likely she will cover this monster. Stick that in your pipe local Jefferson media!

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/18/15-year-old-suspect-in-olten-case-to-be-tried-as-adult-indicted-on-1st-degree-murder/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 18, 2009, 06:12:49 PM
She definitely looks as though she's not sleeping well.  Look at those bags. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 06:14:11 PM
Cole County Sheriff Greg White said later that Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

---------------------------------------

I wonder if they are holder her back at Prenger?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 06:15:53 PM
I personally think her mugshot speaks volumes.(do we know if that is todays mugshot, or the original one)  In most court cases I have seen, the defendant is dressed nicely, in "street clothes" provided by their family. I am wondering if this means even gparents have had enough... and arent supporting her at all?? Also wonder how her "mother" feels about the monster she created??  I am actually waiting for her druggy self to start bawling on TV.

 I have no sympathy for Alyssa, btu I DO think her mother deserves to face charges for creating a monster...  JMHO
I gotta draw the line here.  Parents cannot be held responsible for the crimes their kids commit.  Granted, parents play a large role in how their kids turn out but sometimes even the best of parents can't stop a kid from doing bad things.  JMO


I understand your and respect ur view. I just cant help but feel had "mom" not been chasing drugs and alcohol, and no telling what else, maybe Alyssa wouldnt have been so ill.. I agree IF it can be shown that parent tried everything(as it appears gparents did) and STILL the child becomes a criminal, then the parent is not to blame, but in Alyssa's case, knowing only the little we do about the mothers history, I can only imagine the things she has seen and experienced... But innocence is not something I would associte with Alyssa mom, (or dad for that matter)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 06:16:00 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 06:17:08 PM
Looking at the Photo MUGS of AB. She does not look anything like her own posted photo's (social sites) what so ever.  The pics on the social sites must be at best when she was 12, 13.
In the Mug shot, She looks older, and she also looks like she has no Soul.

Not that a Mug Shot is a determination of one's person. She looks Pale and she as well looks like she could put out a mighty blow .. meaning she looks rough and tough. More so she looks empty.
She looks just like what she is a "Convict".


Probably by the time she goes to trial she'll be cute as a button. Hair in side pony tails, bows, sweater set, skirt......yada, blah, blah  I never understood why lawyers seem to go overboard when trying to clean up criminals for court, sheesh
Hi MizJay ( Hug) You know we have all seen it in the court rooms that they take the Perp and Pretty them up for the sake of Jury... But I have to say that AB may be the one that says NO.
I think she will " love" to look like a Juggalette in front of an audience. This is sick twisted morbid girl - and I sincerely believe that she will appear in court - Pasty white, hair undone with a face of  ::MonkeyEek:: no makeup nor femininity. For her that is empowerment. For her to posed as " A Pretty Girl " would make her skin crawl.  Make her even upset and possibly not cooperative. She WANTS Attention and I am just saying She will want Her Way and Her Way will be to posed as her Mug Shot shows her. " I am Me".  Jmo.

She will want to represent herself as she knows herself and She is NO Princess to be dressed up, made up, nor put out to the public as a frilly weak girl ( that's how I believe she thinks) idk -jmo.
Aileen Wuornos comes to Mind. She was who she was.
 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 06:23:00 PM
I personally think her mugshot speaks volumes.(do we know if that is todays mugshot, or the original one)  In most court cases I have seen, the defendant is dressed nicely, in "street clothes" provided by their family. I am wondering if this means even gparents have had enough... and arent supporting her at all?? Also wonder how her "mother" feels about the monster she created??  I am actually waiting for her druggy self to start bawling on TV.

 I have no sympathy for Alyssa, btu I DO think her mother deserves to face charges for creating a monster...  JMHO
I gotta draw the line here.  Parents cannot be held responsible for the crimes their kids commit.  Granted, parents play a large role in how their kids turn out but sometimes even the best of parents can't stop a kid from doing bad things.  JMO


I understand your and respect ur view. I just cant help but feel had "mom" not been chasing drugs and alcohol, and no telling what else, maybe Alyssa wouldnt have been so ill.. I agree IF it can be shown that parent tried everything(as it appears gparents did) and STILL the child becomes a criminal, then the parent is not to blame, but in Alyssa's case, knowing only the little we do about the mothers history, I can only imagine the things she has seen and experienced... But innocence is not something I would associte with Alyssa mom, (or dad for that matter)

And I can understand your view as well.  However, who is to decide when enough was done?  What we do agree upon is she IS A MONSTER.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: mizjay on November 18, 2009, 06:29:20 PM
Looking at the Photo MUGS of AB. She does not look anything like her own posted photo's (social sites) what so ever.  The pics on the social sites must be at best when she was 12, 13.
In the Mug shot, She looks older, and she also looks like she has no Soul.

Not that a Mug Shot is a determination of one's person. She looks Pale and she as well looks like she could put out a mighty blow .. meaning she looks rough and tough. More so she looks empty.
She looks just like what she is a "Convict".


Probably by the time she goes to trial she'll be cute as a button. Hair in side pony tails, bows, sweater set, skirt......yada, blah, blah  I never understood why lawyers seem to go overboard when trying to clean up criminals for court, sheesh
Hi MizJay ( Hug) You know we have all seen it in the court rooms that they take the Perp and Pretty them up for the sake of Jury... But I have to say that AB may be the one that says NO.
I think she will " love" to look like a Juggalette in front of an audience. This is sick twisted morbid girl - and I sincerely believe that she will appear in court - Pasty white, hair undone with a face of  ::MonkeyEek:: no makeup nor femininity. For her that is empowerment. For her to posed as " A Pretty Girl " would make her skin crawl.  Make her even upset and possibly not cooperative. She WANTS Attention and I am just saying She will want Her Way and Her Way will be to posed as her Mug Shot shows her. " I am Me".  Jmo.

She will want to represent herself as she knows herself and She is NO Princess to be dressed up, made up, nor put out to the public as a frilly weak girl ( that's how I believe she thinks) idk -jmo.
Aileen Wuornos comes to Mind. She was who she was.
 


Good points DEENIE  (hugs back)          it will be interesting if her persona stays the same. I have to imagine the cool-look-at-me bravado would begin to erode as the harsh, bleak days of cell life add up, that's when an atty, could probably tell them to wear a cheer leading outfit and they would. Besides I'm guessing here, they have to wear whatever somebody brings them or their prison clothes.
Anyways, I forgot about Aileen W.  She was her own person, no sugar coating.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 06:38:05 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.

OOHH! I am sitting on my hands!!!   ::MonkeyDevil2::

C'mon FANNY  cat got your tongue?

When the time is right, I am sure we will all talk about it. Sorry for baiting you. But there really is more to come.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 06:38:18 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 06:42:04 PM
I haven't read completely back yet, but why was Kurt Valentine not at her arraignment with her?

Didn't he consider it "dangerous" for her to appear without an atty?

If you read back there is an article that states he is excused if it goes to adult court as he is a Juvi defense lawyer.

thanks - I'll read back. :)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 06:44:22 PM
I personally think her mugshot speaks volumes.(do we know if that is todays mugshot, or the original one)  In most court cases I have seen, the defendant is dressed nicely, in "street clothes" provided by their family. I am wondering if this means even gparents have had enough... and arent supporting her at all?? Also wonder how her "mother" feels about the monster she created??  I am actually waiting for her druggy self to start bawling on TV.

 I have no sympathy for Alyssa, btu I DO think her mother deserves to face charges for creating a monster...  JMHO
I gotta draw the line here.  Parents cannot be held responsible for the crimes their kids commit.  Granted, parents play a large role in how their kids turn out but sometimes even the best of parents can't stop a kid from doing bad things.  JMO


I understand your and respect ur view. I just cant help but feel had "mom" not been chasing drugs and alcohol, and no telling what else, maybe Alyssa wouldnt have been so ill.. I agree IF it can be shown that parent tried everything(as it appears gparents did) and STILL the child becomes a criminal, then the parent is not to blame, but in Alyssa's case, knowing only the little we do about the mothers history, I can only imagine the things she has seen and experienced... But innocence is not something I would associte with Alyssa mom, (or dad for that matter)

And I can understand your view as well.  However, who is to decide when enough was done?  What we do agree upon is she IS A MONSTER.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there really is such a thing as a down right EVIL person. No matter how they are raised, no matter how much they have been coddled and loved, there is EVIL in our world.

I used to not believe this. I used to think that there was goodness in everyone and that there had to be situations in their lives to make them do the things they do. But after years in the LE and just experience out in the world, EVIL is alive and well and living among us. If you don't believe it, just take a tour through these threads. And it is only getting worse everyday.

It is against my religion to feel this way, and I have struggled for many years with it. Because I feel unforgiving. But as sure as I am sitting here typing on this computer with all you monkeys, I know there is a devil, evil and Hell.  JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 18, 2009, 06:47:26 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.

OOHH! I am sitting on my hands!!!   ::MonkeyDevil2::

C'mon FANNY  cat got your tongue?

When the time is right, I am sure we will all talk about it. Sorry for baiting you. But there really is more to come.  ::MonkeyWink::




Now I'm bouncing around trying to figure it out! LOL--what's more to come? I mean duh, I know there's more to the story but is there stuff that we have to wait and see that's going to come out later that's been on the web? OOOOOoooooohhhh my head is spinning now..... :smt101


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 06:49:27 PM
Meet Alyssa Bustamante; A 15-Year-old Killer (Photos) Going To Prison?

A 15-year-old girl named Alyssa Bustamante has been arrested and is going to court over killing a 9-year-old named Elizabeth Olten. She is to be tried as an adult according to reports after lawmakers found out the viciousness of her attack.

Bustamante stabbed, strangled, and cut the throat of the 9-year-old girl named Elizabeth Olten. When police asked why she killed the girl she said she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

Bustamante dug two shallow graves before killing Olten. Bustamante had a record of trying to commit suicide and was on the antidepressant known as prozac.

There is now a fight on whether or not to be her in an adult jail or possibly even a mental institution. Her lawyer is desperately fighting to keep her out of jail. It's hard to believe that is the face of a killer.

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212268807.shtml

Well now that she knows what it feels like to kill someone, now she can know what it feels like to be an  accused then convicted felon in prison too. It's too good for her

these are my exact thoughts.

re: where they will hold her - I have no doubt that wherever it is, she will be very protected as she's already tried to kill herself.  Think:  glass walls, no privacy, constant monitoring.

thanks for the mugshots, Northern and Fanny :)  she looks completely different without all that black eyeliner.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 18, 2009, 06:53:25 PM
I personally think her mugshot speaks volumes.(do we know if that is todays mugshot, or the original one)  In most court cases I have seen, the defendant is dressed nicely, in "street clothes" provided by their family. I am wondering if this means even gparents have had enough... and arent supporting her at all?? Also wonder how her "mother" feels about the monster she created??  I am actually waiting for her druggy self to start bawling on TV.

 I have no sympathy for Alyssa, btu I DO think her mother deserves to face charges for creating a monster...  JMHO
I gotta draw the line here.  Parents cannot be held responsible for the crimes their kids commit.  Granted, parents play a large role in how their kids turn out but sometimes even the best of parents can't stop a kid from doing bad things.  JMO


I understand your and respect ur view. I just cant help but feel had "mom" not been chasing drugs and alcohol, and no telling what else, maybe Alyssa wouldnt have been so ill.. I agree IF it can be shown that parent tried everything(as it appears gparents did) and STILL the child becomes a criminal, then the parent is not to blame, but in Alyssa's case, knowing only the little we do about the mothers history, I can only imagine the things she has seen and experienced... But innocence is not something I would associte with Alyssa mom, (or dad for that matter)

And I can understand your view as well.  However, who is to decide when enough was done?  What we do agree upon is she IS A MONSTER.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there really is such a thing as a down right EVIL person. No matter how they are raised, no matter how much they have been coddled and loved, there is EVIL in our world.

I used to not believe this. I used to think that there was goodness in everyone and that there had to be situations in their lives to make them do the things they do. But after years in the LE and just experience out in the world, EVIL is alive and well and living among us. If you don't believe it, just take a tour through these threads. And it is only getting worse everyday.

It is against my religion to feel this way, and I have struggled for many years with it. Because I feel unforgiving. But as sure as I am sitting here typing on this computer with all you monkeys, I know there is a devil, evil and Hell.  JMO

And I have to agree..... If you deny god, you will open the doorway for evil.  This is my belief.. sorry if it offends anyone.  In my opion, evil is very real and abounds in this world.  When I look into the eyes of Alyssa in her mug shot, evil is what I see.  And honestly, it scares me. ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 06:54:25 PM
this has been a very rewarding day, and I'm so glad I got to share it with you guys. 

I'm off for the night, but the picture of one particular girl stands clear in my mind tonight - so glad that the right thing was done today!

(http://marinadedave.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/elizabeth-olten1.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 06:55:25 PM
Cole County Sheriff Greg White said later that Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

---------------------------------------

I wonder if they are holder her back at Prenger?

Did you look at the link I put up today about the facility? She needs to be in the Cole County Jail. jmo


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 06:56:09 PM
this has been a very rewarding day, and I'm so glad I got to share it with you guys. 

I'm off for the night, but the picture of one particular girl stands clear in my mind tonight - so glad that the right thing was done today!

(http://marinadedave.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/elizabeth-olten1.jpg)
::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: yorkiemom on November 18, 2009, 06:58:35 PM
Hello everyone,
I'm so glad she's going to be tried as an adult.   ::MonkeyCheer2::  Does anyone have any information about how any of the siblings are doing?  I hope someone is keeping an eye on them.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 07:00:11 PM
I personally think her mugshot speaks volumes.(do we know if that is todays mugshot, or the original one)  In most court cases I have seen, the defendant is dressed nicely, in "street clothes" provided by their family. I am wondering if this means even gparents have had enough... and arent supporting her at all?? Also wonder how her "mother" feels about the monster she created??  I am actually waiting for her druggy self to start bawling on TV.

 I have no sympathy for Alyssa, btu I DO think her mother deserves to face charges for creating a monster...  JMHO
I gotta draw the line here.  Parents cannot be held responsible for the crimes their kids commit.  Granted, parents play a large role in how their kids turn out but sometimes even the best of parents can't stop a kid from doing bad things.  JMO


I understand your and respect ur view. I just cant help but feel had "mom" not been chasing drugs and alcohol, and no telling what else, maybe Alyssa wouldnt have been so ill.. I agree IF it can be shown that parent tried everything(as it appears gparents did) and STILL the child becomes a criminal, then the parent is not to blame, but in Alyssa's case, knowing only the little we do about the mothers history, I can only imagine the things she has seen and experienced... But innocence is not something I would associte with Alyssa mom, (or dad for that matter)

And I can understand your view as well.  However, who is to decide when enough was done?  What we do agree upon is she IS A MONSTER.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there really is such a thing as a down right EVIL person. No matter how they are raised, no matter how much they have been coddled and loved, there is EVIL in our world.

I used to not believe this. I used to think that there was goodness in everyone and that there had to be situations in their lives to make them do the things they do. But after years in the LE and just experience out in the world, EVIL is alive and well and living among us. If you don't believe it, just take a tour through these threads. And it is only getting worse everyday.

It is against my religion to feel this way, and I have struggled for many years with it. Because I feel unforgiving. But as sure as I am sitting here typing on this computer with all you monkeys, I know there is a devil, evil and Hell.  JMO

Yes I agree, I guess my main point is we have no way to know if she was born evil, or how much influence the mother had on her. If the case were she had decent parents that tried, we would then KNOW she was just bad seed.. BUT knowing who her mother is, we just dont know if she was born this way, or made to be this way.. I still say that reguardless this isnt an excuse for her, and she should get Max penalty..



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 07:01:39 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.

OOHH! I am sitting on my hands!!!   ::MonkeyDevil2::

C'mon FANNY  cat got your tongue?

When the time is right, I am sure we will all talk about it. Sorry for baiting you. But there really is more to come.  ::MonkeyWink::




Now I'm bouncing around trying to figure it out! LOL--what's more to come? I mean duh, I know there's more to the story but is there stuff that we have to wait and see that's going to come out later that's been on the web? OOOOOoooooohhhh my head is spinning now..... :smt101

I'm sorry. I really should have sat on my hands. It is just peripheral stuff about unnamed persons that may or may not have a bearing. But it was from the internet. I was not the one who found it, so I will let that monkey decide when the time is right.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 07:03:55 PM
Hello everyone,
I'm so glad she's going to be tried as an adult.   ::MonkeyCheer2::  Does anyone have any information about how any of the siblings are doing?  I hope someone is keeping an eye on them.

Welcome YORKIEMOM!!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

I would really like to know that myself. As a matter of fact, there is a lot of things I would like to know that has so far been well concealed. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 07:05:21 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.

OOHH! I am sitting on my hands!!!   ::MonkeyDevil2::

C'mon FANNY  cat got your tongue?

When the time is right, I am sure we will all talk about it. Sorry for baiting you. But there really is more to come.  ::MonkeyWink::




Now I'm bouncing around trying to figure it out! LOL--what's more to come? I mean duh, I know there's more to the story but is there stuff that we have to wait and see that's going to come out later that's been on the web? OOOOOoooooohhhh my head is spinning now..... :smt101

I'm sorry. I really should have sat on my hands. It is just peripheral stuff about unnamed persons that may or may not have a bearing. But it was from the internet. I was not the one who found it, so I will let that monkey decide when the time is right.   ::MonkeyCool::

UGHHHH NO not MORE WAITING.... Come out come out whoever u are..lol. I have already chewed my nails down to nubs(and had just recently got them growing for the first time in my life)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 18, 2009, 07:05:56 PM
Maybe it was for her Aunt? The one that didn't get along with her so well.

OOHH! I am sitting on my hands!!!   ::MonkeyDevil2::

C'mon FANNY  cat got your tongue?

When the time is right, I am sure we will all talk about it. Sorry for baiting you. But there really is more to come.  ::MonkeyWink::




Now I'm bouncing around trying to figure it out! LOL--what's more to come? I mean duh, I know there's more to the story but is there stuff that we have to wait and see that's going to come out later that's been on the web? OOOOOoooooohhhh my head is spinning now..... :smt101

I'm sorry. I really should have sat on my hands. It is just peripheral stuff about unnamed persons that may or may not have a bearing. But it was from the internet. I was not the one who found it, so I will let that monkey decide when the time is right.   ::MonkeyCool::


Okay I will respect that. Thankyou for letting me know. LOL--I will just wait it out. Maybe I'll do some sniffing on my own tomorrow when I have time.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Edward on November 18, 2009, 07:09:35 PM
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091118/capt.6e926cb25953477d9f645376fff3c8e7.missouri_girl_slain_ny128.jpg)

Blessed with a Friday off school, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante dug two holes in the ground to be used as a grave, authorities said. For the next week, she attended classes, all the while plotting the right time for a murder, they said.

That time arrived the evening of Oct. 21, when Bustamante strangled 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten without provocation, cut the girl's throat and stabbed her, prosecutors said. Why?

"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like," Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice testified Wednesday during a court hearing over the slaying.

Rice, who interviewed Bustamante in the days after Elizabeth's disappearance, said she confessed to investigators and led them to the fourth grader's well-concealed body in a wooded area near their neighborhood in St. Martins, a small town west of Jefferson City.

A Cole County judge ruled Wednesday that Bustamante, who has been held in Missouri's juvenile justice system, should be tried as an adult. Hours later, the teen was indicted on adult charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action for allegedly using a knife to kill Elizabeth. A judge later entered a not guilty plea on Bustamante's behalf and referred her to the public defender's office.

The court proceedings marked the first time that the suspect in Elizabeth's death had been publicly identified since a two-day search for the girl by hundreds of volunteers. When they found Elizabeth's body Oct. 23, authorities only said that a 15-year-old had led them to it and was in custody for the slaying.

Bustamante remained largely expressionless as she sat with her hands shackled around her waist in court Wednesday. She occasionally looked down beneath the brown bangs that covered her eyes and swallowed hard as a judge read the charges against her.

On one side of the courtroom sat her mother and grandmother, who has been Bustamante's legal guardian for about half of her life. On the other side sat Elizabeth's mother, relatives and friends, several of whom wore pink — Elizabeth's favorite color.

Bustamante was ordered held without bond pending her trial. If convicted of first-degree murder, she would be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Witnesses at Bustamante's adult certification hearing described a girl who was bright yet depressed and clever in a sometimes sneaky sort of way. She ranked in roughly the top third of her class at Jefferson City High School, the principal said, and had been in no trouble at school or with the law.

Yet Bustamante had tried to commit suicide at age 13 and had been receiving mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself, said David Cook, the chief juvenile officer in Cole County. Once, she led her family to believe she was attending a local church event when she instead sneaked off to a concert in St. Louis, about two hours away, Cook said. On one or two other occasions, Bustamante spent the night in the woods without permission, he said.

After her arrest, Bustamante tried to cut herself with her own fingernails while being held in juvenile custody, said her appointed juvenile defense attorney Kurt Valentine.

He argued Bustamante should remain in the juvenile system, where she could potentially be rehabilitated before being set free by age 21. Valentine warned that Bustamante would either kill herself or be assaulted and killed by others if she were placed in an adult jail cell or prison.

"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa," Valentine said. "She is not going to survive her time in the Cole County jail."

Cole County Sheriff Greg White said later that Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

Cook recommended Bustamante be tied as an adult. Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem agreed, saying the killing was vicious and that the state had no adequate facilities or services to treat Bustamante if she remained in the juvenile system.

Bill Heberle, with the Missouri Division of Youth Services, testified that the state has no secure facilities with fences for female juveniles. Youths in Missouri's juvenile system generally are housed in group settings and are not typically watched by staff 24 hours a day, he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091118/ap_on_re_us/us_missouri_girl_slain


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 07:22:25 PM
Cole County Sheriff Greg White said later that Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

---------------------------------------

I wonder if they are holder her back at Prenger?

This is the link I posted today about the Prenger Family Center, where Alyssa had been held.

http://www.colecounty.org/prenger/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 07:34:38 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 07:38:45 PM
JEFFERSON CITY — Wearing pink ribbons in remembrance of the 9-year-old St. Martins girl killed nearly a month ago, two Jefferson City High School students watched as a classmate faced first-degree murder charges.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, was indicted Wednesday on suspicion of killing Elizabeth Olten, 9. Bustamante was certified to stand trial as an adult.

"We went to school with Alyssa, but we're not here supporting her," said Maggie Fowler, a junior at Jefferson City High School.

On Wednesday, Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce read Bustamante the charges against her and entered a plea of not guilty on her behalf. Bustamante, her wrists shackled to her waist, told the  judge that she had yet to meet with an attorney from the Missouri State Public Defender System and was unable to pay for her own defense.

Earlier in the day, in a separate judicial proceeding before a different judge, Bustamante was certified to stand trial as an adult rather than have her case handled as a juvenile matter.

After the adult certification, a Cole County grand jury returned a two-count indictment against Bustamante for murder in the first degree and armed criminal action, according to a news release issued by Cole County Prosecuting Attorney Mark Richardson. The  prosecutor's office said Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut Olten's throat with a knife.

Fowler's mother, Jodi Nichols, said that people were remembering Olten by wearing pink — her favorite color. Four people in pink T-shirts emblazoned with Olten's name circumscribed around a heart could be see sitting behind Richardson in the court's afternoon session. Nichols said Olten's family had been distributing the T-shirts.

Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem certified Bustamante to stand trial as an adult. He ruled that the crime was vicious and that the state did not have appropriate facilities to treat Bustamante as a juvenile, according to an earlier Associated Press story.

Both Fowler and Tiffany Lucas, 16, said they were surprised at the lack of emotion Bustamante showed during the indictment.

With bangs falling over her left eye, Bustamante blinked repeatedly as Joyce read the charges. A brief lip quiver was the only outward show of emotion by Bustamante during the afternoon session.

The two teenagers in attendance said they felt Bustamante should be tried as an adult.

"If they make an adult crime, they should be considered an adult," Fowler said.

While Fowler only shared a lunch period with Bustamante, she said she took off school so she could witness the trial for herself.

Lucas said she attended because a lot of rumors have been flying around school.

"They're trying to say it's linked to a teacher who committed suicide a few weeks earlier, but it's not," Lucas said.

A Jefferson City High School teacher, Bill Currie, committed suicide the Monday after Olten's body was found. Citing student privacy laws, school spokesman David Luther would not confirm whether Bustamante was in Currie's class or if the incidents are connected.

If convicted, Bustamante faces life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2009/11/18/alyssa-bustamante-face-murder-indictment-adult/



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 07:42:22 PM
Bustamante certified, indicted, arraigned

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- During the adult certification hearing, at which no videographer was allowed, Alyssa Bustamante was named publically for the first time. Her attorney, Kurt Valentine made an impassioned plea to leave the case with juvenile authorities.

He argued Bustamante would never survive in an adult jail or prison system, calling certification a "death sentence" for his client.

Juvenile court prosecutor Samantha Green argued that Bustamante could not be rehabilitated through any program in that system. Green became emotional when discussing murder victim Elizabeth Olten, both in court and afterward.

"I would hope that the public will remember Elizabeth for who she was, and not remember her for the crime that was committed upon her,” Green said.

In sending the case to adult court, Judge Jon Beetem ruled that the crime was serious and vicious and the state had no adequate facilities or services to treat Alyssa in the juvenile court system. County prosecutor Mark Richardson immediately brought the case to the already-seated grand jury, which returned the indictment for first-degree murder.

"After deliberation, by strangling her, cutting her throat, and stabbing her,” Richardson said.

That's as much as Richardson would say about the facts of the case. At one point in juvenile court hearing, a highway patrol investigator testified that Alyssa had dug two holes in the woods, five days before Elizabeth Olten disappeared.

Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.


Because the case went to the grand jury, there is no probable cause statement for a preliminary hearing.  Such documents generally provide significant details of the crime.

"The charge in this case gives pretty much what I would expect a probable cause statement to reflect regarding the manner of the killing,” Richardson said.

If convicted, the maximum punishment faced by Bustamante is life in prison.

Missouri law does not allow people under the age of 16 who commit murder to be executed.

Circuit judge Pat Joyce would not allow photography Bustamante in the adult court hearing, because she had no legal counsel.

Valentine was appointed to defend Bustamante in juvenile court. After her case was moved to adult court, Valentine was released as her counsel.

Judge Joyce entered a not guilty plea for Bustamante and scheduled another hearing for Dec. 7.

At that time, Bustamante likely will be represented by the public defender and the status of the case will be reviewed for trial scheduling.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379212


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 07:43:19 PM
It never crossed my mind that Elizabeth MAY have been in both graves until the last article.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 07:45:21 PM
Fanny - Your last post. It has to be within reality that we live within a society of Good and Evil. Disney - which is all based upon Good Vs Evil - Each and Every Cartoon is based upon Good and Evil - always has been. Which is life.
Good is someone that is not perfect nor has intentions of being perfect - yet has a Conscience of Right from Wrong - that has a belief system ingrained that for how ever I am as a Being - I will not " NOT" take another as victim for my own self indulgence nor pleasure. I will not take advantage of someone who is weaker than myself. I will do the opposite. Embrace and Preserve.  My works are within offering out to others, My works are clear and simple and have no motives - and wish to live as a Human being. A life long, healthy within love and positive.

Evil is someone that takes pleasure in manipulating, taking advantage of, pursuing all and any in order to get their way. They take it as almost educating themselves and move up in rank. So the next time they are more savvy ..even when caught " they are able to continue" and they will because they live and thrive on other people. They thrive on the weaknesses of others and all living creatures.  They are Evil.  Their Destiny in life has no meaning - therefore LIFE to them has no worth.  And all that come into their path are seen as " an objective " not human, nor life. Objective: Something toward which Effort is Directed. Once they find an objective and take it out - they only become stronger for it.  Could be as simple as a 6 yr old torturing for months eventually killing their pet gerbil on purpose .... Their parents never/Nor anyone to abuse nor harm them as child.

I totally believe that Some are born Evil. I though believe more that within the Human Race we have gifted people as well. People who come/born from a higher heightened place that Watch over others and will do anything in their power to protect and serve.  ::MonkeyAngel:: Many I find Here.
Never to say or group others who make unwise choices in life, or have been within crossroads of life to be assumed as evil No..  We are all Human and we create mistakes, make mistakes and have failures in our lives, that though is being Human. 

Those who are truly Evil really have no way of being Redeemed. I feel that AB fits into the category of Evil. I am no one to Judge but its within my gut that AB is just what she is " Sane and Evil" Just like Casey Anthony.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 07:45:43 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 07:49:16 PM
It never crossed my mind that Elizabeth MAY have been in both graves until the last article.

::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 07:49:17 PM
KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 07:49:39 PM
It never crossed my mind that Elizabeth MAY have been in both graves until the last article.


OMG!!! (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/thFainting.gif)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 07:52:03 PM
Fanny - Your last post. It has to be within reality that we live within a society of Good and Evil. Disney - which is all based upon Good Vs Evil - Each and Every Cartoon is based upon Good and Evil - always has been. Which is life.
Good is someone that is not perfect nor has intentions of being perfect - yet has a Conscience of Right from Wrong - that has a belief system ingrained that for how ever I am as a Being - I will not " NOT" take another as victim for my own self indulgence nor pleasure. I will not take advantage of someone who is weaker than myself. I will do the opposite. Embrace and Preserve.  My works are within offering out to others, My works are clear and simple and have no motives - and wish to live as a Human being. A life long, healthy within love and positive.

Evil is someone that takes pleasure in manipulating, taking advantage of, pursuing all and any in order to get their way. They take it as almost educating themselves and move up in rank. So the next time they are more savvy ..even when caught " they are able to continue" and they will because they live and thrive on other people. They thrive on the weaknesses of others and all living creatures.  They are Evil.  Their Destiny in life has no meaning - therefore LIFE to them has no worth.  And all that come into their path are seen as " an objective " not human, nor life. Objective: Something toward which Effort is Directed. Once they find an objective and take it out - they only become stronger for it.  Could be as simple as a 6 yr old torturing for months eventually killing their pet gerbil on purpose .... Their parents never/Nor anyone to abuse nor harm them as child.

I totally believe that Some are born Evil. I though believe more that within the Human Race we have gifted people as well. People who come/born from a higher heightened place that Watch over others and will do anything in their power to protect and serve.  ::MonkeyAngel:: Many I find Here.
Never to say or group others who make unwise choices in life, or have been within crossroads of life to be assumed as evil No..  We are all Human and we create mistakes, make mistakes and have failures in our lives, that though is being Human. 

Those who are truly Evil really have no way of being Redeemed. I feel that AB fits into the category of Evil. I am no one to Judge but its within my gut that AB is just what she is " Sane and Evil" Just like Casey Anthony.



Absolutely! Evil in everyway. I was thinking the same thing about Casey.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 07:55:52 PM

BLOCKED WEBSITE

[/quote]

Dennie the interesting part is when I looked up the Simonsen 9th Grade Centre I was expecting a half way house or something like that.  Nope.  It is a school that is part of the Public School System.
http://www.jcps.k12.mo.us/education/school/school.php?sectionid=12

Wonder how the school board is gonna dodge this one.  It is on record now that she delved into the Goth culture while attending this school.  
[/quote]

I wonder if they have convened a "special emergency" meeting to deal with this today?  ::MonkeyDevil2::
[/quote]
I don't want to Stack - but My whole point of what I was saying is " Just what Northern/Fanny replied to "- The Media's Statement -Basically their words are Lumping Every Kid who wears Black acts Goth or Emo into AB's Personality - and that statement in the article is going to Trip out every parent that has a kid that attends that school ... UM Yep.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 07:57:19 PM
KMOV also has a video up. Samatha Green speaks to reporters and it also shows the two classmates of the Monster that were in court today.  They were handing out the red ribbons in support of Elizabeth. 

http://www.kmov.com/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 07:58:04 PM
KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
::MonkeyDevil:: I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:00:08 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Valerie on November 18, 2009, 08:00:14 PM
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- A judge ordered a 15-year-old girl to stand trial as an adult for the slaying of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, whose disappearance last month touched off a two-day search. Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem ruled Wednesday that the crime was serious and vicious. Beetem also said the state has no adequate facilities or services to treat Alkyssa Bustamante if she were to remain in the juvenile court system.

Immediately after the judge's ruling on Wednesday morning, Cole County sheriff's deputies arrested Bustamante on a first-degree murder charge. Within hours, prosecutors filed a grand jury indictment of first-degree murder. An indictment speeds the case through the court system by sending it directly to circuit court, skipping the need for a preliminary hearing in associate circuit court.

The indictment accuses Bustamante of killing Elizabeth by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21, the day that Elizabeth disappeared. Elizabeth had been visiting Bustamante's sister and disappeared on the short walk to her own home. Bustamante also is charged with armed criminal action because a knife was used in the attack.

Bustamante appeared briefly before a judge on Wednesday afternoon. She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

At the hearing on Wednesday morning, a police officer testified Bustamante confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

If convicted of first-degree murder, she faces a life prison sentence with no chance of parole. The law doesn't allow her to face a death penalty because of her age.

Bustamante is is custody with no bond.

http://www.ky3.com/news/local/70376722.html

PS. read some of the comments....interesting.......


Do read the comment by JCGIRL. She says the scuttlebutt is the other grave was for her little sister.  I remember when this first came out, someone commented that Elizabeth was a "trial run". Sorry but I would never be able to find that comment this late.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:00:40 PM
It never crossed my mind that Elizabeth MAY have been in both graves until the last article.


I am still stuck on your last post. Why couldn't Richardson tell that??? My mind is going into places that I do not wish it to go.  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:02:46 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

Eeeek! I got the same thing. I guess they don't want us to read their news. It is probably something in one of their rolling ads. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:04:09 PM
KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
::MonkeyDevil:: I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  ::MonkeyDevil::


At first I thought she was going to lunge at the camera and by the end even the anchor looks to be glad she is done.  My opinion of KOMU has changed as they surely must be punking us.   ::MonkeyKiss::  Now I know why they don't want to use their technology for live streams.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:06:15 PM
NG has Elizabeth at the top of her broadcast   
::MonkeyGavel::    ::MonkeyGavel::    ::MonkeyGavel::    ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:07:54 PM
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- A judge ordered a 15-year-old girl to stand trial as an adult for the slaying of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, whose disappearance last month touched off a two-day search. Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem ruled Wednesday that the crime was serious and vicious. Beetem also said the state has no adequate facilities or services to treat Alkyssa Bustamante if she were to remain in the juvenile court system.

Immediately after the judge's ruling on Wednesday morning, Cole County sheriff's deputies arrested Bustamante on a first-degree murder charge. Within hours, prosecutors filed a grand jury indictment of first-degree murder. An indictment speeds the case through the court system by sending it directly to circuit court, skipping the need for a preliminary hearing in associate circuit court.

The indictment accuses Bustamante of killing Elizabeth by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her on Oct. 21, the day that Elizabeth disappeared. Elizabeth had been visiting Bustamante's sister and disappeared on the short walk to her own home. Bustamante also is charged with armed criminal action because a knife was used in the attack.

Bustamante appeared briefly before a judge on Wednesday afternoon. She sat shackled with her hands at her waist, expressionless except for a hard swallow as the judge read the charges to her.

At the hearing on Wednesday morning, a police officer testified Bustamante confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

If convicted of first-degree murder, she faces a life prison sentence with no chance of parole. The law doesn't allow her to face a death penalty because of her age.

Bustamante is is custody with no bond.

http://www.ky3.com/news/local/70376722.html

PS. read some of the comments....interesting.......


Do read the comment by JCGIRL. She says the scuttlebutt is the other grave was for her little sister.  I remember when this first came out, someone commented that Elizabeth was a "trial run". Sorry but I would never be able to find that comment this late.

I saw those and IMO I believe that is who the second grave was for as well. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 18, 2009, 08:08:30 PM
I'm new here but have been reading for a while, and I just want to say thank God that the right thing was done today. Justice for this little girl will never be done here on earth, but judgement day will come and Alyssa will have to explain to God why it is that she hurt one of his most precious gifts. I have been praying about this case since it first hit the news, and although I hate what Alyssa has done, I do pray that she turns her heart to God someday, the most awful thing in all of this is that no punishment in the world can undo the hurt that was brought down upon elizabeth and her family, praying for you and those who have loved you little angel, may you be safe in the hands of Jesus


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 08:09:06 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:09:32 PM
It never crossed my mind that Elizabeth MAY have been in both graves until the last article.


I am still stuck on your last post. Why couldn't Richardson tell that??? My mind is going into places that I do not wish it to go.  ::MonkeyShocked::

Mine as well.  I hope she was in the one grave.  The locals on some of the boards are saying Richardson has a horrible track record and it would be a good thing if the trial was moved to another jurisdiction.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 08:10:14 PM
Welcome new members!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:11:07 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Thank you Klaas.  With Grandma being named by the media can we post the whole family tree and their associated court docs etc, other than the minors?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 08:11:51 PM
It never crossed my mind that Elizabeth MAY have been in both graves until the last article.


oh no. no.

we read reports of that possibility, but I had forgotten.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:12:09 PM
I don't want to Stack - but My whole point of what I was saying is " Just what Northern/Fanny replied to "- The Media's Statement -Basically their words are Lumping Every Kid who wears Black acts Goth or Emo into AB's Personality - and that statement in the article is going to Trip out every parent that has a kid that attends that school ... UM Yep.


Deenie, this school board was the same one that only convened an emergency meeting on a Monday at 11am after the kids were already back in school, and only discussed having counselors for the elementary school. The high school was only discussed because the teacher had committed suicide, and didn't offer counselors for that or even admit AB (perp) went to the JCHS. As far as I know, they never have.

Personally, I would be very worried about my child if they were emo's or goth and had black suicidal thoughts, music, poetry, cutting and immersed themselves in it. I would, I would be very worried and would attempt to help them find more positive things in life. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:12:17 PM
 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME  arrivaderci    ::cartwheel::

 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME TO ALL NEW MONKEYS   ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 18, 2009, 08:18:20 PM
It never crossed my mind that Elizabeth MAY have been in both graves until the last article.


Oh, that makes me feel ill... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 08:18:51 PM
KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
::MonkeyDevil:: I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  ::MonkeyDevil::


lol.  God love her.  She had lots of enthusiasm.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 18, 2009, 08:19:23 PM
::cartwheel::  WELCOME  arrivaderci    ::cartwheel::

 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME TO ALL NEW MONKEYS   ::cartwheel::

Thank you :) ::HelloKitty::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:21:21 PM
I don't want to Stack - but My whole point of what I was saying is " Just what Northern/Fanny replied to "- The Media's Statement -Basically their words are Lumping Every Kid who wears Black acts Goth or Emo into AB's Personality - and that statement in the article is going to Trip out every parent that has a kid that attends that school ... UM Yep.


Deenie, this school board was the same one that only convened an emergency meeting on a Monday at 11am after the kids were already back in school, and only discussed having counselors for the elementary school. The high school was only discussed because the teacher had committed suicide, and didn't offer counselors for that or even admit AB (perp) went to the JCHS. As far as I know, they never have.

Personally, I would be very worried about my child if they were emo's or goth and had black suicidal thoughts, music, poetry, cutting and immersed themselves in it. I would, I would be very worried and would attempt to help them find more positive things in life. JMO

Miss Fanny is correct.  This district first released a statement that basically said - did not happen on school property, move along.  They then released a statement that counsellors would be available for the elementary students and listed the services on their site if parents felt that students needed help beyond what the district was providing for a few days.  They never released any condolences to the Olten family, nor mentioned that counselors would be available for the High School.  They did mention the Teacher passing, but never mentioned how the student population would be helped at the High School with his passing.  IMO they deserve every call by every parent to find out what they are doing to ensure the mental and emotional well being of the children that are with them each day for classes with these two emotional events taking place in one week.  The week this all went down with Elizabeth being murdered and the teacher committing suicide the top posting on the school website was the vollveyball team winning a game.  IIRC Bill Currie's death was article 5. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 08:24:00 PM
A Blog- Article Written by a Doc about Teens who Kill
http://everydaypsychology.com/2006/11/why-do-kids-commit-murder.html

For all of the theory and speculation about why kids commit murder, the answers do not differ greatly from what we have learned about adults who kill. With few exceptions, adolescents are just as capable of knowing that what they did was wrong.
   As with adults, some adolescents kill because they are chronically aggressive, cold and unfeeling. Some will kill because they "explode" in response to a history of "over-controlled hostility." Some will lash out after wallowing in feelings of victimization and after nurturing longstanding resentments. Others kill because they have been traumatized and are unable to tolerate their existence. Some who are immature and narcissistic become “obsessed.” Deprived of love or gratification, they feel justified while escalating to violence. Less common, but often more dramatic are the killings committed by the psychotic, those with disturbed and disordered thoughts and only a tenuous grasp on reality.
   During the course of my career as a forensic psychologist, including the time that I worked at the California Youth Authority, I have conducted several hundred evaluations of adolescents who have committed homicide or attempted homicide. Today, the district attorney can take most juveniles charged with homicide directly to adult court. Before the law changed about five years ago, adolescents routinely underwent extensive psychological examination before a judge would decide whether to try them as an adult or as a juvenile. An additional evaluation was required before an adolescent convicted as an adult could be sentenced to an adult prison.
  A psychological interview provides unique insights into the mental, emotional and motivational dynamics of the offender. Typically, it is the only time that the full story is told in rich detail, from the offender’s perspective, and with their feelings, beliefs and perceptions exposed. At no other point in the criminal justice system will the offender ever describe what they were thinking and how they viewed reality when they pulled the trigger or struck the fatal blow. Their story is rarely shared with the prosecution or the court, and may not be revealed to their own attorney. Often times, in a psychological interview, what the offender says is not sufficient to explain the motivation for their actions. In other cases, offenders will say enough for us to know whether the case should be described as an example of tragedy or an example of evil.
   Although similar in these ways to adult offenders, there remain unique features of adolescent violence.
  We know that the young tend to engage in more high-risk behaviors of all types. The research suggests that a familiar stereotype about kids is probably not true. Studies show that teenagers do not actually tend to view themselves as invulnerable or invincible, any more so than adults. Instead, kids are more likely to behave as if they are invincible because of immaturity, impulsivity and bad judgment. Lacking experience and being less mindful of obligations, responsibilities and consequences, they can display an indifference to risk and a sense of fearlessness that facilitates dangerous behavior.
   Values, attitudes and beliefs also contribute to violence. Many juveniles have learned or come to believe that aggression is a legitimate method for resolving various interpersonal problems and conflicts encountered in life. When provoked, they fight back or attack, never thinking that a simple act of battery might have a deadly outcome.
   Over the years, I have watched as the concept of “respect” has evolved in the youth culture. It is heard in the words of kids who say, “I respect them if they respect me” and those who explain their outbursts by saying, “He didn’t give me my respect.” I have come to view this as a particularly virulent and dangerous attitude, the idea that “respect” is a possession, an entitlement or a conditional offering. Sometimes teenagers kill while defending a sense of honor that they never earned or deserved.
   The defense of honor frequently interacts with group dynamics. For a variety of reasons, adolescents tend to roam in groups, often displaying the attitudes and trappings of gang culture, even if they are not actually organized, sophisticated and with criminal purpose. In a group, even loosely formed, individuals may engage in extreme behaviors that they might never have undertaken on their own. The phenomenon results from a “diffusion of responsibility.” In a crowd, individuals often abandon restraint and give vent to impulses because no one feels individually responsible. Violence in defense of the honor of the group is a common theme.
   There is a final element that can turn a simple confrontation into a deadly encounter. That is the possession of a weapon. I have heard it said time and again: The knife or gun was just for protection. It is rare that I have heard a juvenile admit that the gun made them feel powerful, but it is often clear that the weapon was carried for its emotional value, rather than for its use as a tool. And then, in response to some situation, the impulse and bad judgment come into play and the weapon is used.
   Patterns notwithstanding, what I have found is that every case is different. A psychologist’s purpose is to explain, not to judge. In responding to the threat of violence, the worst thing that we can do as a society is to fail to understand exactly what happened in any particular case. Sometimes we ignore facts out of fear that an explanation will be offered as an excuse. If we rely upon our preconceived notions about the causes of violence, rather than listening to what a particular individual was thinking and feeling at that particular moment, we will fail to learn what is most important: How do we as a society protect ourselves from violence?
**********
My only thought is within the condition of the act "Murder" - was it premeditated or was it a reaction within a moment that caused the death of another. ?? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:25:53 PM
KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
::MonkeyDevil:: I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  ::MonkeyDevil::


At first I thought she was going to lunge at the camera and by the end even the anchor looks to be glad she is done.  My opinion of KOMU has changed as they surely must be punking us.   ::MonkeyKiss::  Now I know why they don't want to use their technology for live streams.

Probably because nobody know how to use it!! They are not in exactly a high media area, and are just using these jobs for a step up to something better.  Have live-stream, no one to operate it. I wonder how MURT would like Missouri??  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:28:40 PM
I'm new here but have been reading for a while, and I just want to say thank God that the right thing was done today. Justice for this little girl will never be done here on earth, but judgement day will come and Alyssa will have to explain to God why it is that she hurt one of his most precious gifts. I have been praying about this case since it first hit the news, and although I hate what Alyssa has done, I do pray that she turns her heart to God someday, the most awful thing in all of this is that no punishment in the world can undo the hurt that was brought down upon elizabeth and her family, praying for you and those who have loved you little angel, may you be safe in the hands of Jesus

Welcome ARRIVDERCI!!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

We are getting so many new monkeys, I keep missing them.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:29:39 PM
School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:30:35 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Hello, BERLIN! It won't play for me...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 08:34:17 PM
Fanny - I don't think you're missing anything.  Most of the videos they are saying stuff we have already heard anyway.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:39:57 PM
School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226


Oh I bet! "Classes have been fine, just fine." Isn't this the same school that the students were threatened with disciplinary action if they posted about the murder on their social networks or text messages?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:41:44 PM
Fanny - I don't think you're missing anything.  Most of the videos they are saying stuff we have already heard anyway.

Ok, thanks. That's what I thought. I didn't want to take the chance of seeing the reporter that looked like a deer in the headlights like the one NORTHERN ROSE posted anyway.  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:43:55 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Thank you Klaas.  With Grandma being named by the media can we post the whole family tree and their associated court docs etc, other than the minors?
KLASS, did you see this post from NORTHERN ROSE? I'm blaming you NORTHERN!  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 18, 2009, 08:47:28 PM
national - front & center.  front page of foxnews.com:

(http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/111809_killerhomework_20091118_201158.jpg)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575590,00.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:49:17 PM
national - front & center.  front page of foxnews.com:

(http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/111809_killerhomework_20091118_201158.jpg)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575590,00.html

I guess the feathers are all out of the pillow, and they aren't going back in again. ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:49:55 PM
School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226


Oh I bet! "Classes have been fine, just fine." Isn't this the same school that the students were threatened with disciplinary action if they posted about the murder on their social networks or text messages?


Yes it was according to what we heard.  Also the same school that these students went to.  Does not look just fine to the students, or me.  If normal is getting texts about shootings that school has some serious issues IMO. 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 08:52:38 PM
School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226


I have another issue with this article. Why was it that the principal could come to Public court and speak to her grades and behavior and anything that was positive, but could not say anything about any trouble because of privacy issues. Isn't her who record covered by the privacy issues? I am just having trouble with him testifying anyhow. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:53:54 PM
The talking head on NG needs to read some.  There were several articles today that stated that Grandma and a Juvenile servers worker were with the Monster when police were questioning her and she spilled the beans.  Her rights were not violated.  Elizabeth's rights were violated by the Monster.   ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 08:54:00 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Thank you Klaas.  With Grandma being named by the media can we post the whole family tree and their associated court docs etc, other than the minors?
KLASS, did you see this post from NORTHERN ROSE? I'm blaming you NORTHERN!  ::MonkeyDevil2::


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 08:56:35 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Thank you Klaas.  With Grandma being named by the media can we post the whole family tree and their associated court docs etc, other than the minors?
KLASS, did you see this post from NORTHERN ROSE? I'm blaming you NORTHERN!  ::MonkeyDevil2::


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.


 ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::    ::MonkeyKiss::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:03:12 PM
Alyssa's Father


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:11:45 PM
Alyssa's mother and the daughter of Karen S Brooke (grandma)
Latest Court records.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 18, 2009, 09:12:39 PM
KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
::MonkeyDevil:: I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  ::MonkeyDevil::


At first I thought she was going to lunge at the camera and by the end even the anchor looks to be glad she is done.  My opinion of KOMU has changed as they surely must be punking us.   ::MonkeyKiss::  Now I know why they don't want to use their technology for live streams.

Probably because nobody know how to use it!! They are not in exactly a high media area, and are just using these jobs for a step up to something better.  Have live-stream, no one to operate it. I wonder how MURT would like Missouri??  ::MonkeyDevil::

Oh NO WAY!!!  Hush your mouth Fanny!!  We do not need MURT, thank you very much!! ::MonkeyNoNo::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 09:14:27 PM
KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
::MonkeyDevil:: I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  ::MonkeyDevil::


At first I thought she was going to lunge at the camera and by the end even the anchor looks to be glad she is done.  My opinion of KOMU has changed as they surely must be punking us.   ::MonkeyKiss::  Now I know why they don't want to use their technology for live streams.
::MonkeyDevil2:: ::MonkeyDevil:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Probably because nobody know how to use it!! They are not in exactly a high media area, and are just using these jobs for a step up to something better.  Have live-stream, no one to operate it. I wonder how MURT would like Missouri??  ::MonkeyDevil::

Oh NO WAY!!!  Hush your mouth Fanny!!  We do not need MURT, thank you very much!! ::MonkeyNoNo::




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:15:06 PM
Other court dealings for Michelle Lee Bustamante
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/nameSearch.do


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 09:15:47 PM
I got in your post SUNNY. That was me doing all the snickering.... ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 18, 2009, 09:16:49 PM


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.


 ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::    ::MonkeyKiss::

NR you have been chewing at the bit waiting for this day...so you can now tell all!   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 18, 2009, 09:17:49 PM
I got in your post SUNNY. That was me doing all the snickering.... ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 18, 2009, 09:22:55 PM
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 09:26:02 PM
Sorry for the O/T ~ I have seen so many New Monkey's that have Joined SM - who entered Elizabeth's Cage for their first posts tonight on SM ..... or who have been posting in Elizabeth's Cage who are new to SM.
 :smt040
Texas Flame ~ Espresso~Bananas~Valerie~Yorkie Mom~Ms. Louisiana~Arrivaderci
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/boxah104/msweeziemonk-1.gif)

  ::MonkeyWink::

K, back to business .......



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 18, 2009, 09:27:24 PM
Welcome to all the new monks....and good night to all ::Baseball::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:30:02 PM
Karen S Brooke seeking Custody of the 6 year old who Elizabeth was visiting  the day she was murdered.  This file is really sad as Grandma Karen had to ask the courts permission to put out a 4 week notice in the newspapers to find Mom and Dad of the child.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:31:06 PM


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.


 ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::    ::MonkeyKiss::

NR you have been chewing at the bit waiting for this day...so you can now tell all!   ::MonkeyDance::

Yes.  I managed to grab a lot before it was scrubbed. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 09:33:16 PM
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.
Oh Sunny ....... all of it is Uck. I can't imagine what your DH felt as he heard the words first hand.  ::MonkeyNoNo:: Its a mind bender this entire case.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:34:18 PM
Kathryn M Nieto is Karen S Brooke's Daughter from Marriage #2.  She would be Alyssa's Aunt and lived in the house on  Lomo Drive. 

Kathryn Nieto
Born 05/05/1988
NIETO , KATHRYN M , Defendant          
626 LOMO DR
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109

Year of Birth: 1988       
Description:   Speeding - School Zone (11-15 Mph Over) { Ordinance RSMo: Not Available }
Date:    01/18/2008            
NIETO , KATHRYN M , Defendant          
626 LOMO DR
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109

Year of Birth: 1988       
Description:   Exceeded Posted Speed Limit (16-19 Mph Over) { Ordinance RSMo: Not Available }
Date:    11/24/2008   Code:    9522000      
NIETO , KATHRYN M , Defendant          
626 LOMO DR
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109

Year of Birth: 1988       
Description:   Minor Visibly Intox / Bac .02% Or More { Misdemeanor Unclassified RSMo: 311.325 }
Date:    06/01/2007   Code:    3304500   Disposition:    Guilty Plea - 06/29/2007
OCN:    J0001173            
Sentence:   Fine
Sentence Date:    06/29/2007   Start Date:    06/29/2007   Fine:   $250.00
Text:   Defendant fined $250.00. Court cost in the amount of $433.00 to be paid within 90 days or subject to tax offset/debt collection program. Cost to be paid in full within 30 days or a time payment fee of $25.00 will be applied. TLS/rf

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:42:43 PM
Kathryn Nieto Blog from Bebo

Wednesday February 25, 2009
.....

and my mom and alyssa. one, i find alyssa to be a selfish bitch of a child. she has no idea the things my mom and gary and even myself have sacrificed for her to come live under our roof. and i doubt she cares. she feels like everything under this roof effing belongs to her. like she deserves it somehow. an hour ago she comes downstairs wearing a dress of mine that laurie gave me as a possible bridesmaid dress in her wedding to my dad a couple years ago. i wore that dress in drama 2 class my junior year of high school. so i see her wearing this dress while i'm sitting there eating spaghetti and it surprised me. i go "woah! thats my dress!" and alyssa just completely ignores me and puts on her shoes. and my mom goes "really?" and asks where alyssa got it and all that and my mom more or less dismisses my weak protest by saying "does it even fit you?" i said "it did in high school." and she goes "that was a long time ago, dear." bitch. that pissed me the f*ck off. i glared at her so hard. (she must have known it pissed me off too cuz she offered to deduct money from what i owe her for "watching" XXXX and the twins right now even tho we both know well that i'm sitting up in my room with the door shut and locked with no intentions of staying downstairs with any of them). i wanted to f*cking smack them both right in their f*cking mouths.  lets call kathryn out on it. i f*cking hate that. my mom calls me f*cking fat indirectly ALL the f*cking time.


SO. i'm in a bad mood, needless to say. i'm sure you got that picture by now. pardon the anger in the parts addressed to you. i didnt intend for them. heck, i didnt even know i was gonna write some of that stuff. my fingers just may know more about how i feel than my brain does. *shrug* but i dont apologize in any way for the animosity in the second part.

    fin.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:MScU1FsJQo0J:www.freewebs.com/cherry_garcia5588/+%22she+feels+like+everything+under+this+roof+effing+belongs+to+her%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 09:43:31 PM


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.


 ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::    ::MonkeyKiss::

NR you have been chewing at the bit waiting for this day...so you can now tell all!   ::MonkeyDance::

Yes.  I managed to grab a lot before it was scrubbed. 

Actually, you saved a lot more than I thought you had. Do we get the little "cherry" thing too?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 09:45:10 PM


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.


 ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::    ::MonkeyKiss::

NR you have been chewing at the bit waiting for this day...so you can now tell all!   ::MonkeyDance::

Yes.  I managed to grab a lot before it was scrubbed. 

Actually, you saved a lot more than I thought you had. Do we get the little "cherry" thing too?

Nevermind. You just answered my question.  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:45:33 PM
Other adult living in house at Lomo Drive - Ryan A Puckett - Now husband of Kathryn Nieto who now goes by the name of Kathryn Nieto-Puckett

Ryan Puckett
Jefferson City High School, Jefferson city, MO
Ryan A Puckett 2006 graduate of Jefferson City High School in Jefferson city,

http://www.classmates.com/directory/school/Jefferson%20City%20High%20School_2.jsp?org=4323

http://www.myspace.com/rubeio


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 09:46:53 PM
Kathryn Nieto Blog from Bebo

Wednesday February 25, 2009
.....

and my mom and alyssa. one, i find alyssa to be a selfish bitch of a child. she has no idea the things my mom and gary and even myself have sacrificed for her to come live under our roof. and i doubt she cares. she feels like everything under this roof effing belongs to her. like she deserves it somehow. an hour ago she comes downstairs wearing a dress of mine that laurie gave me as a possible bridesmaid dress in her wedding to my dad a couple years ago. i wore that dress in drama 2 class my junior year of high school. so i see her wearing this dress while i'm sitting there eating spaghetti and it surprised me. i go "woah! thats my dress!" and alyssa just completely ignores me and puts on her shoes. and my mom goes "really?" and asks where alyssa got it and all that and my mom more or less dismisses my weak protest by saying "does it even fit you?" i said "it did in high school." and she goes "that was a long time ago, dear." bitch. that pissed me the f*ck off. i glared at her so hard. (she must have known it pissed me off too cuz she offered to deduct money from what i owe her for "watching" XXXX and the twins right now even tho we both know well that i'm sitting up in my room with the door shut and locked with no intentions of staying downstairs with any of them). i wanted to f*cking smack them both right in their f*cking mouths.  lets call kathryn out on it. i f*cking hate that. my mom calls me f*cking fat indirectly ALL the f*cking time.


SO. i'm in a bad mood, needless to say. i'm sure you got that picture by now. pardon the anger in the parts addressed to you. i didnt intend for them. heck, i didnt even know i was gonna write some of that stuff. my fingers just may know more about how i feel than my brain does. *shrug* but i dont apologize in any way for the animosity in the second part.

    fin.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:MScU1FsJQo0J:www.freewebs.com/cherry_garcia5588/+%22she+feels+like+everything+under+this+roof+effing+belongs+to+her%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

She sure likes the eff word, doesn't she?  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:46:56 PM
Court Records for Ryan Alan Puckett


PUCKETT , RYAN A , Defendant          
3159 RJ AA
HOLTS SUMMIT, MO 65043

Year of Birth: 1987       
Description:   Fail To Drive On Right Half Of Rdwy When Rdwy Was Of Sufficient Width, Resulting In An Accident { Misdemeanor A RSMo: 304.015 }
Date:    11/11/2003            
Sentence:   Fine
Sentence Date:    12/11/2003   Start Date:    12/11/2003   Fine:   $75.00

PUCKETT , RYAN ALAN , Defendant          
11034 MAPLE LEAF DR
HOLTS SUMMIT, MO 65043

Year of Birth: 1987       
Description:   Unlawful Use Of Drug Paraphernalia { Misdemeanor A RSMo: 195.233 }
Date:    10/06/2005            
Sentence:   Incarceration Jail   (Suspended Execution of Sentence)
Sentence Date:    12/13/2005   Start Date:    12/13/2005   Length:    20 Days
Text:   Defendant sentenced to 20 days in the Cole County Jail, SES, 2 years unsupervised probation. Defendant to pay costs in the amount of $183.00 within 30 days or a time payment fee of $25.00 will be applied. Defendant given 90 days to pay or debt will be released to Debt Collection/Tax Offset Program. Defendant to complete 20 hours of community service and show proof of completion to the court. TLS/jnw
Facility Name:    Community Service   Agency:    COLE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT
Classification:   No Classification
Outcome:   Successfully Completed
Start Date:    12/13/2005   Assigned Length:    20 Hours    Completed Date:    12/28/2005
________________________________________
Facility Name:    PROBATION   Agency:    COLE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT
Classification:   UNSUPERVISED
Outcome:   SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION
Start Date:    12/13/2005   Assigned Length:    2 Years    Completed Date:    12/13/2007



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 09:48:12 PM
Other adult living in house at Lomo Drive - Ryan A Puckett - Now husband of Kathryn Nieto who now goes by the name of Kathryn Nieto-Puckett

Ryan Puckett
Jefferson City High School, Jefferson city, MO
Ryan A Puckett 2006 graduate of Jefferson City High School in Jefferson city,

http://www.classmates.com/directory/school/Jefferson%20City%20High%20School_2.jsp?org=4323

http://www.myspace.com/rubeio


I thought we got the MySpace saved before it went to private.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:48:40 PM
Father of Kathryn Nieto -Puckett and husband #2 for Karen Bustamante aka Karen S Brooke

Name: Robert Lawrence. Nieto
Age: 58 yrs
Location:
Danville, CA, US
Livermore, CA, US
Pleasanton, CA, US
Albuquerque, NM, US


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:52:20 PM
Kathryn Hi5 Profile
http://www.hi5.com/friend/p4382089--Profile--html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Ariana on November 18, 2009, 09:52:35 PM

Dennie the interesting part is when I looked up the Simonsen 9th Grade Centre I was expecting a half way house or something like that.  Nope.  It is a school that is part of the Public School System.

http://www.jcps.k12.mo.us/education/school/school.php?sectionid=12

Wonder how the school board is gonna dodge this one.  It is on record now that she delved into the Goth culture while attending this school.  

I wonder if they have convened a "special emergency" meeting to deal with this today?  ::MonkeyDevil2::
::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::  ::MonkeyLaugh::  ::MonkeyLaugh::  ::MonkeyLaugh::  ::MonkeyLaugh::  ::MonkeyLaugh::  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 09:54:20 PM
Images of Kathryn and Ryan

myspace http://www.myspace.com/eyeheartewe

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=kathryn+nieto&init=quick#/profile.php?id=17826772&ref=search&sid=534422196.3497233886..1


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 09:55:20 PM
Kathryn Hi5 Profile
http://www.hi5.com/friend/p4382089--Profile--html


You can go to the link and see more pictures.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Ariana on November 18, 2009, 10:00:33 PM
Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous   ::MonkeyEek::  It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Here is the article I got:
Suspect in Olten Murder Case to Stand Trial as Adult
A judge ruled Wednesday morning the 15-year-old girl will stand trial as an adult.
9 hrs ago - Indictment: Girl was stabbed, her throat cut
Court documents released Wednesday show that 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten was stabbed and her throat was cut. Earlier, a judge ruled that the 15-year-old girl charged with the crime should stand trial as an adult. Alyssa Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the case. Elizabeth went missing in late October and was later found dead.   Posted by Matt LeBlanc



10 hrs ago - More details released in murder case
In Cole County Circuit Wednesday, many more details were released about the 15-year-old girl accused of killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten in October. Among them, that Alyssa Bustamante dug two graves in St. Martins about five days before Elizabeth was found dead. Alyssa also attempted suicide by using her fingernails while in state custody. Lawyers for Alyssa also told court officials he worried for his client's safety inside the Cole County Jail.   Posted by Matt LeBlanc



11 hrs ago - 1 p.m. hearing set for Bustamante
A Cole County judge has set a 1 p.m. hearing for Alyssa Bustamante, the 15-year-old accused of killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten in October. Earlier, the judge ruled Alyssa will face murder charges as an adult.  Posted by Matt LeBlanc



11 hrs ago - Suspect certified
A 15-year-old girl accused of killing a 9-year-old girl in St. Martins in October will stand trial as an adult, a Cole County judge ruled Wednesday. Alyssa Bustamante will face murder charges in the death of Elizabeth Olten. Elizabeth was killed in late October in St. Martins.   Posted by Matt LeBlanc



11 hrs ago - Hearing begins
A hearing to decided whether a 15-year-old murder suspect should stand trial as an adult is underway. A judge is expected today to decide whether the girl accused of killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten should stand trial as an adult. It's unclear when the judge will make the decision.   Posted by Matt LeBlanc




Posted on Wed Nov 18, 2009
Last updated 17 hrs ago



This morning a judge will decide whether the teenager accused of murdering 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten will be tried as a juvenile or an adult.  The 15-year-old has been in juvenile custody since her arrest last month after police found Olten's body near her home.





The hearing will begin at 8:00 a.m., and ABC 17's Greg Dingrando will be in the courtroom during the hearing.  Find out the results immediately on KMIZ.com and watch ABC 17 News for the latest information on the case.


http://www.abc17news.com/news/story.php?id=15497


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:00:43 PM
NORTHERN ROSE was gathering and saving all this while she was dog sick in bed with H1N1 and delerious with fever. She my Hero in so many ways.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:01:37 PM
From Ryan's myspace

http://www.myspace.com/rubeio


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:02:50 PM
Kathryn Hi5 Profile
http://www.hi5.com/friend/p4382089--Profile--html


You can go to the link and see more pictures.

Yes.  If someone wants to grab them I am sure they are going to vanish fast.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:07:51 PM
NORTHERN ROSE was gathering and saving all this while she was dog sick in bed with H1N1 and delerious with fever. She my Hero in so many ways.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Aw thanks.   ::MonkeyAngel::  There is more that I should have grabbed but missed and it has been scrubbed.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 10:07:57 PM
Wow Northern You got all the " info" posted  ::MonkeyBike::
I just saw the photos of RP ..........I scrolled the screen from the bottom up as I refreshed the page and I said out loud ..Omy who's that Girl ???

Holy Crap I thought he was a Chic .......  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:10:04 PM
That felt good!  I have more but need to go through it to make sure minors are not posted.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 10:11:24 PM
NORTHERN ROSE was gathering and saving all this while she was dog sick in bed with H1N1 and delerious with fever. She my Hero in so many ways.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Aw thanks.   ::MonkeyAngel::  There is more that I should have grabbed but missed and it has been scrubbed.

 ::MonkeyCheer3:: for Northern from Me ....... Your Amazing As Always ... Ms. Fanny ur gonna have to share  ... j/k   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:11:39 PM
Thanks Ariana .  That site hates my virus checker.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:13:27 PM
That felt good!  I have more but need to go through it to make sure minors are not posted.

I was swelling up like a toad trying not to post what you had found.  I feel better too!  ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:13:54 PM
Ryan had a Livejournal account that has been deleted.  I missed that one.  I have not checked if it was cached as I was busy grabbing stuff before it went "scrubbed".

gismodude.livejournal.com


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:14:33 PM
NORTHERN ROSE was gathering and saving all this while she was dog sick in bed with H1N1 and delerious with fever. She my Hero in so many ways.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Aw thanks.   ::MonkeyAngel::  There is more that I should have grabbed but missed and it has been scrubbed.

 ::MonkeyCheer3:: for Northern from Me ....... Your Amazing As Always ... Ms. Fanny ur gonna have to share  ... j/k   ::MonkeyKiss::

With you, MISS DEENIE,I will.  ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:15:38 PM
NORTHERN ROSE was gathering and saving all this while she was dog sick in bed with H1N1 and delerious with fever. She my Hero in so many ways.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Aw thanks.   ::MonkeyAngel::  There is more that I should have grabbed but missed and it has been scrubbed.

 ::MonkeyCheer3:: for Northern from Me ....... Your Amazing As Always ... Ms. Fanny ur gonna have to share  ... j/k   ::MonkeyKiss::

Thanks Deenie my friend. It means a lot coming from you.   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:18:49 PM
A grant request was submitted by Kathryn Nieto from the Cienega club. The request was for $800 to fund 4 horse clinics: 3 on natural horsemanship

cesanbenito.ucdavis.edu


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
Interesting post created by Rubeio " Ryan Puckett" ....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jefferson+city

1.    Jefferson City    19 up, 6 down love it hate it
   

Small city in the state of Missouri, or as the natives call it "Misery". Fairly violent underground for a city of its small population. Known for two things, being the capital of Missouri, and being the home Jays. There is nothing to do but party with the local rednecks, or get high, or hang out with friends. There is no night life, and nothing for a minor to do. 90% of the native population are mall rats at some point in their life, or parking lot partiers. Many people make the 40 minute trip to Columbia (CoMo) to hang out on the weekends and be mall rats at a different mall. All in all "Jeff City" sucks ass.
Guy 1: "Dude, lets go to Jefferson City"
Guy 2: "Why the fuxk would do that?!?!"
Guy 1: "That sexy asx kathryn girl lives there."
Guy 2: "She IS fine"
columbia mall rats missouri como nightlife
by Rubeio Jul 10, 2008 share this


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:24:08 PM
Interesting post created by Rubeio " Ryan Puckett" ....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jefferson+city

1.    Jefferson City    19 up, 6 down love it hate it
   

Small city in the state of Missouri, or as the natives call it "Misery". Fairly violent underground for a city of its small population. Known for two things, being the capital of Missouri, and being the home Jays. There is nothing to do but party with the local rednecks, or get high, or hang out with friends. There is no night life, and nothing for a minor to do. 90% of the native population are mall rats at some point in their life, or parking lot partiers. Many people make the 40 minute trip to Columbia (CoMo) to hang out on the weekends and be mall rats at a different mall. All in all "Jeff City" sucks ass.
Guy 1: "Dude, lets go to Jefferson City"
Guy 2: "Why the fuxk would do that?!?!"
Guy 1: "That sexy asx kathryn girl lives there."
Guy 2: "She IS fine"
columbia mall rats missouri como nightlife
by Rubeio Jul 10, 2008 share this

I am so happy to post all that stuff so other monkeys can do exactly what you just did Deenie - find and post before it vanishes. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 10:28:54 PM


Question that we may or may not have answered in previous posts but do we know what document Alyssa wrote that pinned her as the suspect? Now that she is being treated as an adult, would that become public? Do you think a family member found the diary or whatever it was and turned her in? Sorry if this has been answered but I don't remember reading about any specific details about it.

Thanks - still SO happy that Alyssa can be ALYSSA on here and no more AB!!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 18, 2009, 10:30:29 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:31:32 PM


Question that we may or may not have answered in previous posts but do we know what document Alyssa wrote that pinned her as the suspect? Now that she is being treated as an adult, would that become public? Do you think a family member found the diary or whatever it was and turned her in? Sorry if this has been answered but I don't remember reading about any specific details about it.

Thanks - still SO happy that Alyssa can be ALYSSA on here and no more AB!!!!!

There are rumours that locals posted on the news sites that the 6 yr old Elizabeth was visiting found the Monster's Diary and spelled her whole plan out.  It should come out in court once it goes to trial if it is true.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 10:33:39 PM


Question that we may or may not have answered in previous posts but do we know what document Alyssa wrote that pinned her as the suspect? Now that she is being treated as an adult, would that become public? Do you think a family member found the diary or whatever it was and turned her in? Sorry if this has been answered but I don't remember reading about any specific details about it.

Thanks - still SO happy that Alyssa can be ALYSSA on here and no more AB!!!!!

Oh my gosh.....can you imagine how scary that would be for a SIX year old to read.......so sad. That poor little girl's life will never be the same because of Alyssa. She lost her friend and has a EVIL sister. Thank you for the information!
There are rumours that locals posted on the news sites that the 6 yr old Elizabeth was visiting found the Monster's Diary and spelled her whole plan out.  It should come out in court once it goes to trial if it is true.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:34:21 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


Kathryn Nieto is the daughter of Karen S Brooke (Grandma) from Marriage #2.  She would be the Aunt to Alyssa and was living in the house when the murder happened.  Ryan is Kathryn's long time boyfirend and now husband. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 10:34:56 PM


Question that we may or may not have answered in previous posts but do we know what document Alyssa wrote that pinned her as the suspect? Now that she is being treated as an adult, would that become public? Do you think a family member found the diary or whatever it was and turned her in? Sorry if this has been answered but I don't remember reading about any specific details about it.

Thanks - still SO happy that Alyssa can be ALYSSA on here and no more AB!!!!!

Oh my gosh.....can you imagine how scary that would be for a SIX year old to read.......so sad. That poor little girl's life will never be the same because of Alyssa. She lost her friend and has a EVIL sister. Thank you for the information!
There are rumours that locals posted on the news sites that the 6 yr old Elizabeth was visiting found the Monster's Diary and spelled her whole plan out.  It should come out in court once it goes to trial if it is true.


Oops..I messed that up...sorry- still new to this!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:37:02 PM


Question that we may or may not have answered in previous posts but do we know what document Alyssa wrote that pinned her as the suspect? Now that she is being treated as an adult, would that become public? Do you think a family member found the diary or whatever it was and turned her in? Sorry if this has been answered but I don't remember reading about any specific details about it.

Thanks - still SO happy that Alyssa can be ALYSSA on here and no more AB!!!!!

I don't think that answer has come out yet, but I would sure like to know myself. The stuff she posted herself on the internet was damming enough. So whatever else there is should be very interesting and answer so questions.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Ariana on November 18, 2009, 10:37:35 PM
Thanks Ariana .  That site hates my virus checker.

YW, and your virus checker may hate it because it has a Trojan on it.  My virus checker opened the page anyways but let me know it captured one, I figured I might as well copypaste it if I had a Trojan already.

I also want to say that Alyssa looks just like her mom.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 10:38:17 PM
O/T  anyone know of a site where you can discuss things like this and acutally say everything you know and hear and also things that you find?  All this secrecy stuff is spinning my head and I actually don't get what the big deal is now that she is being tried as an adult.  Like the second grave thing.  If someone has some info they got somewhere or knows something, why not just post it?  I am kind of dumbfounded.

I also wanted to say, sit back and watch it come out that she mutilated the girls "private parts".  Not that I am a profiler or anything by that means, but that much rage in a killing will almost always include a sexual detail.  Not that Alyssa had sexual feelings toward the girl, but that she would include a sexual mutilation as part of something that happened to her when she was young.  I would almost go as far as saying that the mutilation that occured post mortem was most like, IMO, something sexual or pertaining to sexual parts of the body.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


This may help

Grandma was married 3 times

1st marriage in TX in 1975
2nd marriage in CA in 1983 to Nieto
3rd marriage to Gary Brooke (I didn't look for)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:38:45 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


Those days of intitals was confusing, wasn't it?  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 10:41:35 PM
YourMom - seems to me everything is being posted here.  I don't even mind rumors being posted as long as it's CLEAR that it's a RUMOR.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:41:45 PM
O/T  anyone know of a site where you can discuss things like this and acutally say everything you know and hear and also things that you find?  All this secrecy stuff is spinning my head and I actually don't get what the big deal is now that she is being tried as an adult.  Like the second grave thing.  If someone has some info they got somewhere or knows something, why not just post it?  I am kind of dumbfounded.

I also wanted to say, sit back and watch it come out that she mutilated the girls "private parts".  Not that I am a profiler or anything by that means, but that much rage in a killing will almost always include a sexual detail.  Not that Alyssa had sexual feelings toward the girl, but that she would include a sexual mutilation as part of something that happened to her when she was young.  I would almost go as far as saying that the mutilation that occured post mortem was most like, IMO, something sexual or pertaining to sexual parts of the body.

I think the secrecy part stopped with the hearing this morning when Alyssa was declared an adult. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 10:42:21 PM


Question that we may or may not have answered in previous posts but do we know what document Alyssa wrote that pinned her as the suspect? Now that she is being treated as an adult, would that become public? Do you think a family member found the diary or whatever it was and turned her in? Sorry if this has been answered but I don't remember reading about any specific details about it.

Thanks - still SO happy that Alyssa can be ALYSSA on here and no more AB!!!!!

Ms. Louisiana I do not believe that " that " info has been released .. I don't believe it will be. I am sure that is being held to the vest by LE and held within the court docs. As in the Caylee Anthony case we have all been privy to all documents due to the case is in Florida. Florida ( you may know) has the Sunshine Law ..that all court documents will be open to the public once they are released. I do not know nor have any familiarity within the court/laws of Mo.

I truly believe that the " papers/diary/alleged notes " within EO's Case will not be released to the public at this time, nor any time soon. Possibly never. just my thoughts -

Anyone else ?? Thoughts on Ms. L's Question ..... 

in the mean time .....
If a Monkey knows or finds out and or has knowledge it will posted  ::MonkeyWink::

 

 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:43:21 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


Kathryn Nieto is the daughter of Karen S Brooke (Grandma) from Marriage #2.  She would be the Aunt to Alyssa and was living in the house when the murder happened.  Ryan is Kathryn's long time boyfirend and now husband. 

And so was Ryan living in the house at the time of the murder.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 18, 2009, 10:43:39 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


Kathryn Nieto is the daughter of Karen S Brooke (Grandma) from Marriage #2.  She would be the Aunt to Alyssa and was living in the house when the murder happened.  Ryan is Kathryn's long time boyfirend and now husband. 

OK, got it.  Thank you!!   ::MonkeyWink::
Is there any speculation or rumors directly related to Kathryn and/or Ryan? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 10:43:49 PM
YourMom - seems to me everything is being posted here.  I don't even mind rumors being posted as long as it's CLEAR that it's a RUMOR.

Awesome.  Thank you.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:44:48 PM
Klaas I want to thank you for helping grab some of the images when I was so sick.  ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 10:47:11 PM
I would still like more information on the step grandfather Gary Brooke and his background. Also Karen Brooke's from the previous places they have lived. All we know is he is an IT Consultant and travels all the time. Also, I don't think we have pictures of either of the grandparents, or not that I have seen. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 10:49:16 PM
Klaas I want to thank you for helping grab some of the images when I was so sick.  ::MonkeyKiss::   ::MonkeyKiss::

I think I have some more.  I'll look around and post what I have when I find them. You're very welcome.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:50:54 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


Kathryn Nieto is the daughter of Karen S Brooke (Grandma) from Marriage #2.  She would be the Aunt to Alyssa and was living in the house when the murder happened.  Ryan is Kathryn's long time boyfirend and now husband. 

OK, got it.  Thank you!!   ::MonkeyWink::
Is there any speculation or rumors directly related to Kathryn and/or Ryan? 

Nothing that I have found.  In court today it was stated that there were adults in the house that supported Alyssa and provided guidance I believe it was stated.  It just connects the other adults in the house.  There were a few posters on the local websites that were angry about the media curtain of silence and wondered if it had to do with affiliation to the Moron church as Ryan is Moron as is Ladd Egan from KRCG.  But that is rumour. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 10:52:40 PM
I would still like more information on the step grandfather Gary Brooke and his background. Also Karen Brooke's from the previous places they have lived. All we know is he is an IT Consultant and travels all the time. Also, I don't think we have pictures of either of the grandparents, or not that I have seen. 

Now that it is all out there I am sure that Monkey's will do what Monkey's do best! 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 10:54:14 PM
·  2 hours ago
Im curious.....the judge said the state lacked adequate facilities or services to treat her if she were to remain in juvenile custody. TREAT her for what??? I didnt know there was a cause and cure for murder.

From the ky3 site.  Just liked the comment because it's SO true...........


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 10:55:23 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 10:56:16 PM
O.M.G re: AB's fam ... I will never understand their Tree  ::MonkeyNoNo::

My First Susan Moss impersonation ...........  ::MonkeyTease:: ( I like her)

This Family has more last names and marriages ~ than Planters has Nuts.

Anyone who wants to add a line - be my guest .....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 10:56:50 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 

OH, I'm pretty sure we did.  I'll look and see what I have but I remember a myspace for ILC.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 10:57:21 PM
Thank you for the answers to my questions! Yall are great!

Also, did anyone watch Nancy Grace? One of the reporters were talking about how the crime had to have been done in the woods because Alyssa couldn't have carried Elizabeth's 60 lb body...

Elizabeth was 102 lbs I believe? Or roughly around that...

Also, Nancy called Elizabeth 8 years old...even though her headline said "9 YEAR OLD  murdered"..

Do they not do their research?! Not that it matters because those are minor details in the case but still?? Anyone else notice?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 10:59:17 PM
Thank you for the answers to my questions! Yall are great!

Also, did anyone watch Nancy Grace? One of the reporters were talking about how the crime had to have been done in the woods because Alyssa couldn't have carried Elizabeth's 60 lb body...

Elizabeth was 102 lbs I believe? Or roughly around that...

Also, Nancy called Elizabeth 8 years old...even though her headline said "9 YEAR OLD  murdered"..

Do they not do their research?! Not that it matters because those are minor details in the case but still?? Anyone else notice?

I noticed they also weren't sure if there was a guardian or lawyer present when she confessed.  HELLO, it's old news that Grandma, her guardian, was there when she confessed.....geez, you would think they would do a little more homework.......


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 10:59:29 PM
·  2 hours ago
Im curious.....the judge said the state lacked adequate facilities or services to treat her if she were to remain in juvenile custody. TREAT her for what??? I didnt know there was a cause and cure for murder.

From the ky3 site.  Just liked the comment because it's SO true...........
Your Mom - why that was said is because she is a female. They only have facilities for Boys/Males "Minors" within correctional facilities  ...... they cannot put her into a all male facility irregardless of her charges. 






Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 11:00:03 PM
Ok, you smart Monkey friends o'mine.  I need some insight on the relevance of Kathryn and Ryan.  Other than their relation to Alyssa and the blog post Kathryn wrote about being annoyed with her, what else do they have to do with this?  For so long I was barely keeping my head above water trying to figure out initials and relations that now that they're all out in the open, I can't seem to tie it all back together, if that makes any sense!   ::MonkeyEek::


Kathryn Nieto is the daughter of Karen S Brooke (Grandma) from Marriage #2.  She would be the Aunt to Alyssa and was living in the house when the murder happened.  Ryan is Kathryn's long time boyfirend and now husband. 

OK, got it.  Thank you!!   ::MonkeyWink::
Is there any speculation or rumors directly related to Kathryn and/or Ryan? 

Nothing that I have found.  In court today it was stated that there were adults in the house that supported Alyssa and provided guidance I believe it was stated.  It just connects the other adults in the house.  There were a few posters on the local websites that were angry about the media curtain of silence and wondered if it had to do with affiliation to the Moron church as Ryan is Moron as is Ladd Egan from KRCG.  But that is rumour. 

There were some very interesting personal post on both of their internet journals and blogs.Just lends to what kind of character they had.

That is why I am wondering about the Grandparents. What kind of people, habits, hobbies, who they associated with. There was a big push for no-news about them from the beginning and I felt they were well connected in the community. Some locals say they were not. I would just like to see some documentation. So much has been swept, till I don't know if we will ever be able to find it all. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 11:00:24 PM
ALSO, they are saying that they will dismiss her admitting to the murder because no guardian was with her so the officer was "violating her rights".

Wasnt the grandmother with her or is that speculation?

Sorry for the overload of posting questions!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:00:58 PM
·  2 hours ago
Im curious.....the judge said the state lacked adequate facilities or services to treat her if she were to remain in juvenile custody. TREAT her for what??? I didnt know there was a cause and cure for murder.

From the ky3 site.  Just liked the comment because it's SO true...........
Your Mom - why that was said is because she is a female. They only have facilities for Boys/Males "Minors" within correctional facilities  ...... they cannot put her into a all male facility irregardless of her charges. 






I understand that and I think the poster did too.  The part I was amused by was the last sentance. :)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 18, 2009, 11:02:22 PM
Thank you for the answers to my questions! Yall are great!

Also, did anyone watch Nancy Grace? One of the reporters were talking about how the crime had to have been done in the woods because Alyssa couldn't have carried Elizabeth's 60 lb body...

Elizabeth was 102 lbs I believe? Or roughly around that...

Also, Nancy called Elizabeth 8 years old...even though her headline said "9 YEAR OLD  murdered"..

Do they not do their research?! Not that it matters because those are minor details in the case but still?? Anyone else notice?

I noticed they also weren't sure if there was a guardian or lawyer present when she confessed.  HELLO, it's old news that Grandma, her guardian, was there when she confessed.....geez, you would think they would do a little more homework.......


I just posted about that as well!! So annoying!!! DO YOUR HOMEWORK ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE ON A NATIONWIDE TV SHOW!! ughhhh!! Also, besides the point, SHE violated Elizabeth's rights by eliminating any right she will ever have. I am so sick of ANYONE caring about this monster. Reality check to the prosecutor on Nancy Grace- Grandma was there and ALYSSA IS GUILTY


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 11:03:30 PM
·  2 hours ago
Im curious.....the judge said the state lacked adequate facilities or services to treat her if she were to remain in juvenile custody. TREAT her for what??? I didnt know there was a cause and cure for murder.

From the ky3 site.  Just liked the comment because it's SO true...........
Your Mom - why that was said is because she is a female. They only have facilities for Boys/Males "Minors" within correctional facilities  ...... they cannot put her into a all male facility irregardless of her charges. 






As if they NEVER had a female juvenile charged as an adult with a crime in Cole County? I'm not buying it. BOGUS!! I think this is just some more of "this particular girl." JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 11:08:18 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 

OH, I'm pretty sure we did.  I'll look and see what I have but I remember a myspace for ILC.
Klaas wasn't ILC here at one time, and was on WS - and had made corrections themselves to others that "ILC" was Male. And then possibly *found to be not Male but a somewhat (minced words) ..actually a young female that is mindfully male. I am not talking about her sexual orientation but her mindset and outward appearance.  I think her myspace was here at one time. Not sure.
**  I was lurking at the time, and saw her myspace link that was posted Here or ?? ...I could have it mixed up with someone else.. not sure.  ILC surely had a lot to say though, that I do recall.
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:11:21 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 

OH, I'm pretty sure we did.  I'll look and see what I have but I remember a myspace for ILC.
Klaas wasn't ILC here at one time, and was on WS - and had made corrections themselves to others that "ILC" was Male. And then possibly *found to be not Male but a somewhat (minced words) ..actually a young female that is mindfully male. I am not talking about her sexual orientation but her mindset and outward appearance.  I think her myspace was here at one time. Not sure.
**  I was lurking at the time, and saw her myspace link that was posted Here or ?? ...I could have it mixed up with someone else.. not sure.  ILC surely had a lot to say though, that I do recall.
 

I had posted a link to a 17 year old female that I thought was ILC, just never figured out if it was ever confirmed if it was ILC or not........


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 11:11:33 PM
Here's a post I saved from WS:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/WebsleuthsPostElizOlten.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 18, 2009, 11:14:05 PM
 ::MonkeyNoNo::
One of the speakers on Nancy Grace just stated that the three methods of killing, strangulation, stabbing and then slashing her throat were due to the first method not working out and she had to resort to other methods..This makes me so ill, what a monster she is. I would like to know if she showed any emotion at all during the hearing today, I had heard that she did not, except for when her charges were read..I can't understand this, Also did I read on here once that she had hurt animals in her past too??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 11:14:05 PM
·  2 hours ago
Im curious.....the judge said the state lacked adequate facilities or services to treat her if she were to remain in juvenile custody. TREAT her for what??? I didnt know there was a cause and cure for murder.

From the ky3 site.  Just liked the comment because it's SO true...........
Your Mom - why that was said is because she is a female. They only have facilities for Boys/Males "Minors" within correctional facilities  ...... they cannot put her into a all male facility irregardless of her charges. 


As if they NEVER had a female juvenile charged as an adult with a crime in Cole County? I'm not buying it. BOGUS!! I think this is just some more of "this particular girl." JMO

Could very well be Fanny. WE Must Remember that the Olten family is linked the the case of the Missing Woman who has never been found. It could be that they are putting AB under strict surveillance .. for her own protection. Who knows .. Both these families are so tied to felony's and convictions its out of my realm.  ::MonkeyMad::
And I do believe that with all the " FAMILY " both sides in the system (Family- I use that term loosely)  as Ms. Northern said ..the Atty is going to Milk this case for as long as he/she is able. $$$$$$$



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:15:31 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 

OH, I'm pretty sure we did.  I'll look and see what I have but I remember a myspace for ILC.
Klaas wasn't ILC here at one time, and was on WS - and had made corrections themselves to others that "ILC" was Male. And then possibly *found to be not Male but a somewhat (minced words) ..actually a young female that is mindfully male. I am not talking about her sexual orientation but her mindset and outward appearance.  I think her myspace was here at one time. Not sure.
**  I was lurking at the time, and saw her myspace link that was posted Here or ?? ...I could have it mixed up with someone else.. not sure.  ILC surely had a lot to say though, that I do recall.
 

I had posted a link to a 17 year old female that I thought was ILC, just never figured out if it was ever confirmed if it was ILC or not........
http://www.myspace.com/imonfire23


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 11:16:16 PM
We even figured out who JME probably was, but I guess that would be too gossipy. I think I have seen her working the blogs though. We have a couple of new monkeys that had a lot to say about the same things, and they have gone silent for some reason.  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 11:16:39 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 

OH, I'm pretty sure we did.  I'll look and see what I have but I remember a myspace for ILC.
Klaas wasn't ILC here at one time, and was on WS - and had made corrections themselves to others that "ILC" was Male. And then possibly *found to be not Male but a somewhat (minced words) ..actually a young female that is mindfully male. I am not talking about her sexual orientation but her mindset and outward appearance.  I think her myspace was here at one time. Not sure.
**  I was lurking at the time, and saw her myspace link that was posted Here or ?? ...I could have it mixed up with someone else.. not sure.  ILC surely had a lot to say though, that I do recall.
 

I had posted a link to a 17 year old female that I thought was ILC, just never figured out if it was ever confirmed if it was ILC or not........

It was this one. 

http://www.myspace.com/imonfire23


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:18:07 PM
We even figured out who JME probably was, but I guess that would be too gossipy. I think I have seen her working the blogs though. We have a couple of new monkeys that had a lot to say about the same things, and they have gone silent for some reason.  ::MonkeyDevil2::

I'm always in the dark............lol


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:18:58 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 

OH, I'm pretty sure we did.  I'll look and see what I have but I remember a myspace for ILC.
Klaas wasn't ILC here at one time, and was on WS - and had made corrections themselves to others that "ILC" was Male. And then possibly *found to be not Male but a somewhat (minced words) ..actually a young female that is mindfully male. I am not talking about her sexual orientation but her mindset and outward appearance.  I think her myspace was here at one time. Not sure.
**  I was lurking at the time, and saw her myspace link that was posted Here or ?? ...I could have it mixed up with someone else.. not sure.  ILC surely had a lot to say though, that I do recall.
 

I had posted a link to a 17 year old female that I thought was ILC, just never figured out if it was ever confirmed if it was ILC or not........

It was this one. 

http://www.myspace.com/imonfire23
So was she the ILC that make Tricia look like the idiot she is?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 18, 2009, 11:21:32 PM
 ::MonkeyCheer4::  Hi my new monkey friends. Thank goodness I could catch up on the news here.  I think worth reposting is this link to the time lines and myspace, facebook, utube, singsnap and more.  So here it is.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/

As far as signs of mutilation, I wonder how true the cigarette burns to the eyes was as reported in postings and if that was done while she was alive what torture that was for poor Elizabeth. I am presuming it was before she was dead or the act would have no meaning.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 11:22:34 PM
Family history, troubled teen shows where Bustamante came from
Last updated: 19 minutes ago


COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Alyssa Bustamante is the 15 year old girl a Cole County grand jury believes killed nine year old Elizabeth Olten one month ago.

She is a sophomore at Jefferson City High School and will turn 16 in January.

Several of Alyssa's Facebook friends. They tell us they are stunned their fun-loving friend is an accused murderer.

They say Alyssa has lived a hard life.

ALYSSA'S BACKGROUND

Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California.

Alyssa has lived with her grandparents and three younger siblings in St. Martins for several years on a ranch-style property at 626 Lomo Drive, just four houses down from Elizabeth Olten and her family.

Neighbors and family friends tell us Elizabeth Olten often played with both Alyssa and Alyssa's siblings.

In Wednesday's court proceedings, juvenile authorities said Alyssa's home was a stable one with adequate support from her grandparents.

Since moving to St. Martins, Alyssa Bustamante has attended the Jefferson City location of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Mormon church, with her grandparents. KRCG is told Alyssa participated in several different youth activities at the church.

Academic tests also reveal Alyssa is a gifted student, but that she sometimes did not apply herself in class.

TROUBLED TEEN

But there is also a troubled side to this teen.

Her You Tube page lists her hobbies as "killing people and cutting."

In fact, juvenile court says they have had to trim her fingernails because she was using them to cut-up her arms.

She also tried to commit suicide in September 2007 and was hospitalized. Alyssa then received intense, sometimes daily therapy since that incident.

She has also been taking Prozac to combat her depression.

Alyssa's Twitter page shows what some call "dark" postings, talking about bad decisions and be buried.

Juvenile court officials said during Wednesday's hearing that Alyssa went through a short gothic phase, dressing in all black clothes, last year while attending Simonsen Ninth Grade Center.

BIOLOGICAL PARENTS

Juvenile officials say Alyssa has maintained a relationship with both her mother and father.

Her mother Michelle Bustamante has a history of drug and alcohol charges and her father Ceasar Bustamante is serving several more years in a Missouri prison on assault charges.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:26:41 PM
I have seen pictures of Alyssa's home, yet not once have I seen anything to show a picture of the house where Elizabeth lived.  Very curious to see it if anyone knows where I can see it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Sister on November 18, 2009, 11:27:44 PM
Police: Mo. teen dug grave anticipating murder
By DAVID A. LIEB, AP
49 minutes ago

 JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Blessed with a Friday off school, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante dug two holes in the ground to be used as a grave, authorities said. For the next week, she attended classes, all the while plotting the right time for a murder, they said.

That time arrived the evening of Oct. 21, when Bustamante strangled 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten without provocation, cut the girl's throat and stabbed her, prosecutors said. Why?

"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like," Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice testified Wednesday during a court hearing over the slaying.

Rice, who interviewed Bustamante in the days after Elizabeth's disappearance, said she confessed to investigators and led them to the fourth grader's well-concealed body in a wooded area near their neighborhood in St. Martins, a small town west of Jefferson City.

A Cole County judge ruled Wednesday that Bustamante, who has been held in Missouri's juvenile justice system, should be tried as an adult. Hours later, the teen was indicted on adult charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action for allegedly using a knife to kill Elizabeth. A judge later entered a not guilty plea on Bustamante's behalf and referred her to the public defender's office.

The court proceedings marked the first time that the suspect in Elizabeth's death had been publicly identified since a two-day search for the girl by hundreds of volunteers. When they found Elizabeth's body Oct. 23, authorities only said that a 15-year-old had led them to it and was in custody for the slaying.

Bustamante remained largely expressionless as she sat with her hands shackled around her waist in court Wednesday. She occasionally looked down beneath the brown bangs that covered her eyes and swallowed hard as a judge read the charges against her.

On one side of the courtroom sat her mother and grandmother, who has been Bustamante's legal guardian for about half of her life. On the other side sat Elizabeth's mother, relatives and friends, several of whom wore pink — Elizabeth's favorite color.

Bustamante was ordered held without bond pending her trial. If convicted of first-degree murder, she would be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Witnesses at Bustamante's adult certification hearing described a girl who was bright yet depressed and clever in a sometimes sneaky sort of way. She ranked in roughly the top third of her class at Jefferson City High School, the principal said, and had been in no trouble at school or with the law.

Yet Bustamante had tried to commit suicide at age 13 and had been receiving mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself, said David Cook, the chief juvenile officer in Cole County. Once, she led her family to believe she was attending a local church event when she instead sneaked off to a concert in St. Louis, about two hours away, Cook said. On one or two other occasions, Bustamante spent the night in the woods without permission, he said.

After her arrest, Bustamante tried to cut herself with her own fingernails while being held in juvenile custody, said her appointed juvenile defense attorney Kurt Valentine.

He argued Bustamante should remain in the juvenile system, where she could potentially be rehabilitated before being set free by age 21. Valentine warned that Bustamante would either kill herself or be assaulted and killed by others if she were placed in an adult jail cell or prison.

"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa," Valentine said. "She is not going to survive her time in the Cole County jail."

Cole County Sheriff Greg White said later that Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

Cook recommended Bustamante be tied as an adult. Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem agreed, saying the killing was vicious and that the state had no adequate facilities or services to treat Bustamante if she remained in the juvenile system.

Bill Heberle, with the Missouri Division of Youth Services, testified that the state has no secure facilities with fences for female juveniles. Youths in Missouri's juvenile system generally are housed in group settings and are not typically watched by staff 24 hours a day, he said.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 18, 2009, 11:28:33 PM
YourMom - I'm not 100% certain but I wouldn't be surprised.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:30:49 PM
wow, never noticed this one before....how eerie..........

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/Egrave.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 11:33:33 PM
I have seen pictures of Alyssa's home, yet not once have I seen anything to show a picture of the house where Elizabeth lived.  Very curious to see it if anyone knows where I can see it.

They have moved since the murder but here is the house they lived in at the time.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:33:45 PM
Ok, I know I am posting like crazy, I just have so many questions.  Is there any information about LE doing a search of the family computer???  I'm sure there is all kind of interesting things on it........


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 11:34:03 PM
I have seen pictures of Alyssa's home, yet not once have I seen anything to show a picture of the house where Elizabeth lived.  Very curious to see it if anyone knows where I can see it.

That photobucket KarenK just posted has pictures of the house.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: fatcatlurker on November 18, 2009, 11:34:55 PM
"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa,"

I gotta say it burns me everytime I see that statement.  This girl already had years of counseling and it did no good.  Let her spend 20 in a real facility now.  jmo


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 18, 2009, 11:37:19 PM
The MS labeled ILC is a female juvenile(who admits to being lesbian) I think this "girl" also lives in JC area.

The ILC from WS...Tricia called HIM Ryan in atleast one of her post...(before he called and apolgized to her) Sooo that post maybe erased.


 I STILL have no idea who JME is.... that is the one mystery I have not figure out from all this(and yes I know the least important) But he/she irked me way back and was the reason I JOINED Sm, to correct him/her on calling the grandparents her 'foster" parents..lol
But now I wonder if he/she wasnt a fmaily member trying to distance theirself from Alyssa, from what has been said today, the family "seems" distant form her..JMHO


 I have more thoughts and ideas..but my poor baby is so sick with flu and strept(after recovering from stomach bug this weekend) and STILL has online school to do..if I cna wake her to do it.. (btw lol my poor baby is 18..lol) I will try to get back and catch up later, if not see ya in the morning..HUGS to one and all of my SM friends/family... This really has been a great day, one many of us were afraid would not turn out this well!! JUSTICE for ELizabeth and Family!!!!!!

 I also do want to THANK you all for that other thing...the showing is great!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 11:37:48 PM
We even figured out who JME probably was, but I guess that would be too gossipy. I think I have seen her working the blogs though. We have a couple of new monkeys that had a lot to say about the same things, and they have gone silent for some reason.  ::MonkeyDevil2::

I'm always in the dark............lol

No real secret. She posted as JamE or something on the local blogs. Pretty sure she was married to someone connected to the state legislators. He owned an apartment complex in JC.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 18, 2009, 11:37:57 PM
is this their home also?

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/063.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 11:39:11 PM
"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa,"

I gotta say it burns me everytime I see that statement.  This girl already had years of counseling and it did no good.  Let her spend 20 in a real facility now.  jmo

It burns me as well as Alyssa personally signed Elizabeth's death warrant and carried it out.  Alyssa is still breathing and now getting 3 hots and a cot so Valentine can go to a very bad place as far as I am concerned for using those words.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 11:39:13 PM
The MS labeled ILC is a female juvenile(who admits to being lesbian) I think this "girl" also lives in JC area.

The ILC from WS...Tricia called HIM Ryan in atleast one of her post...(before he called and apolgized to her) Sooo that post maybe erased.


 I STILL have no idea who JME is.... that is the one mystery I have not figure out from all this(and yes I know the least important) But he/she irked me way back and was the reason I JOINED Sm, to correct him/her on calling the grandparents her 'foster" parents..lol
But now I wonder if he/she wasnt a fmaily member trying to distance theirself from Alyssa, from what has been said today, the family "seems" distant form her..JMHO


 I have more thoughts and ideas..but my poor baby is so sick with flu and strept(after recovering from stomach bug this weekend) and STILL has online school to do..if I cna wake her to do it.. (btw lol my poor baby is 18..lol) I will try to get back and catch up later, if not see ya in the morning..HUGS to one and all of my SM friends/family... This really has been a great day, one many of us were afraid would not turn out this well!! JUSTICE for ELizabeth and Family!!!!!!

 I also do want to THANK you all for that other thing...the showing is great!!!!

See  my post under yours.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 11:43:03 PM
::MonkeyNoNo::
One of the speakers on Nancy Grace just stated that the three methods of killing, strangulation, stabbing and then slashing her throat were due to the first method not working out and she had to resort to other methods..This makes me so ill, what a monster she is. I would like to know if she showed any emotion at all during the hearing today, I had heard that she did not, except for when her charges were read..I can't understand this, Also did I read on here once that she had hurt animals in her past too??

Hi Ms Arrivaderci (( Welcome)) in regards to AB and her Emotions. I don't think she would show any at all. Because this girl thinks she is invincible and for her to show any emotions would allow others to think different of her. Think of Casey Anthony. But with Casey she mocked the camera ( or did at first) she would smile and smirk to Bobo or to her own self. But when the tables turned CA turned emotionless .. * uggh.
My own opinions:
But with AB I do not think she would offer up anything in face nor reaction.  She has her own personal Allegiance ~ that Nothing can touch her. She has a reputation to uphold that she created.  Jmo ..  She in her mind is Alyssa and who that represents is a very disturbed girl that obviously takes Prisoners.  She stands alone on this one. And I believe she actually likes it. She has prob never gotten this much " personal attention" ever before - and she got it by killing Elizabeth. She led LE to EO/her Body - Can you Say ???? She got what she wanted. To be the next in all the news as a Killer. To be in reality what lived in her mind " Infamous" ...as a Murderer.

 Reminds me of that movie that is so so sick and demented. Natural Born Killers.  I saw it at the theater when it first came out years ago. I went with my boyfriend at the time. I just looked it up. It came out in 1994. We both sat and watched this movie and both of us were repulsed. Half the time I had my eyes covered .. and when we walked out of the theater both of us were speechless and felt totally nauseous.   When you finally come down from the fact that AB is responsible and charged ~then hear the actual details of Elizabeth's murder and how her body was found- its practically inconceivable.. then to go back again and have to comprehend  a 15 yr old girl did this .....but it wasn't just a 15 yr old girl. It was Alyssa.   
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Justice for Elizabeth


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 11:43:47 PM
Glad to see Tom here.  He must be reading like crazy to catch up.  Wondering if he managed to do his drive by the courthouse today?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 18, 2009, 11:46:46 PM
I need to change computers and get on the crappy laptop.  BRB


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 18, 2009, 11:51:51 PM
Ok, I tried to back track a lot and find the answer and couldn't.  What ever happened with ILC?  Did anyone figure out who is was? 

OH, I'm pretty sure we did.  I'll look and see what I have but I remember a myspace for ILC.
Klaas wasn't ILC here at one time, and was on WS - and had made corrections themselves to others that "ILC" was Male. And then possibly *found to be not Male but a somewhat (minced words) ..actually a young female that is mindfully male. I am not talking about her sexual orientation but her mindset and outward appearance.  I think her myspace was here at one time. Not sure.
**  I was lurking at the time, and saw her myspace link that was posted Here or ?? ...I could have it mixed up with someone else.. not sure.  ILC surely had a lot to say though, that I do recall.
 

I had posted a link to a 17 year old female that I thought was ILC, just never figured out if it was ever confirmed if it was ILC or not........

It was this one. 

http://www.myspace.com/imonfire23
Yep that is the myspace I recall. Where she is ILC who has posted here and there - Idk.
Thank You Klaas


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 18, 2009, 11:54:45 PM
Glad to see Tom here.  He must be reading like crazy to catch up.  Wondering if he managed to do his drive by the courthouse today?

Wow, just got done reading all the post in both threads. I did drive by at 7:10am this morning, only about 6 people in line at the door, makes me mad I could not attend. I don't know if she is being held away or at Cole County jail, it will probably leak out soon. I think today was a great day in the right direction, justice for the youth that is being killed today. All of this madness in society makes me appreciate what I have. I will check in often.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 18, 2009, 11:56:00 PM
wow, never noticed this one before....how eerie..........

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/Egrave.jpg)

Where did you find that picture?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 19, 2009, 12:13:55 AM

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234


Family history, troubled teen shows where Bustamante came from

By Mallory McGowin
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 7:05 p.m.
Last updated: 1 hour, 11 minutes ago

Read more: Local, Crime, Community, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Juvenile, Family History


COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Alyssa Bustamante is the 15 year old girl a Cole County grand jury believes killed nine year old Elizabeth Olten one month ago.

She is a sophomore at Jefferson City High School and will turn 16 in January.

Several of Alyssa's Facebook friends. They tell us they are stunned their fun-loving friend is an accused murderer.

They say Alyssa has lived a hard life.

ALYSSA'S BACKGROUND

Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California.

Alyssa has lived with her grandparents and three younger siblings in St. Martins for several years on a ranch-style property at 626 Lomo Drive, just four houses down from Elizabeth Olten and her family.

Neighbors and family friends tell us Elizabeth Olten often played with both Alyssa and Alyssa's siblings.

In Wednesday's court proceedings, juvenile authorities said Alyssa's home was a stable one with adequate support from her grandparents.

Since moving to St. Martins, Alyssa Bustamante has attended the Jefferson City location of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Mormon church, with her grandparents. KRCG is told Alyssa participated in several different youth activities at the church.

Academic tests also reveal Alyssa is a gifted student, but that she sometimes did not apply herself in class.

TROUBLED TEEN

But there is also a troubled side to this teen.

Her You Tube page lists her hobbies as "killing people and cutting."

In fact, juvenile court says they have had to trim her fingernails because she was using them to cut-up her arms.

She also tried to commit suicide in September 2007 and was hospitalized. Alyssa then received intense, sometimes daily therapy since that incident.

She has also been taking Prozac to combat her depression.

Alyssa's Twitter page shows what some call "dark" postings, talking about bad decisions and be buried.

Juvenile court officials said during Wednesday's hearing that Alyssa went through a short gothic phase, dressing in all black clothes, last year while attending Simonsen Ninth Grade Center.

BIOLOGICAL PARENTS

Juvenile officials say Alyssa has maintained a relationship with both her mother and father.

Her mother Michelle Bustamante has a history of drug and alcohol charges and her father Ceasar Bustamante is serving several more years in a Missouri prison on assault charges.




 
A timeline of events leading up to Elizabeth's murder

By Matt Grant
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 10:39 p.m.

Read more: Local, Crime, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Bustamante


JEFFERSON CITY -- Friday Oct. 16

Friday Oct. 16 was parent-teacher conferences and Alyssa Bustamante had a day off from school. It was on this day that highway patrol says she dug two graves in the woods behind her home.

Bustamante was familiar with the property behind her house, according to court testimony. She even got in trouble twice for spending the night in the woods.

The two graves she dug sat there over the weekend and into the next week as Bustamante attended school Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Wednesday Oct. 21

The morning of the murder, Bustamante posted Twitter messages saying she was "in class" at Jefferson City High School and "bored as f---."

That afternoon, 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten would have walked from her home on Lomo Drive in St. Martins and traveled four houses to get to Bustamante's house. Neighbors said she played there often with the Bustamante's twin brothers and younger sister.

On the night of the murder there were horses in front of her house. Those horses are now gone, replaced with no trespassing signs.

Around 6:15 p.m., Elizabeth was supposed to come home. Family members told reporters that after she left someone called her cell phone telling her to come back to Bustamante's house.

Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.
Thursday Oct. 22

That led to Bustamante missing school on Thursday. The high school principal said it was her first and only unexcused absence.

Friday Oct. 23

Mid-day the sheriff said "written evidence" led them to Bustamante.

After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 19, 2009, 12:18:51 AM
My fact vs rumor post from Nov 8 2009;(copied and pasted)
 Parts in Red turned out to be true
Been trying to put facts vs rumors on paper, thought I would share her so we can kinda have an idea where we are, and have all facts and rumors in one spot!!!


 FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS

October 21 2009 (Wednesday)
 
 9 yr old Elizabeth Olten disappears after playing at friend house, last contact was sometime after 6 pm.
  Elizabeth was a 4th grader at Pioneer Trails Elem in Jefferson Cty.
  Elizabeth was playing at a neighbors house, aprox 1/2 miles from her own home.
  In residence of that house a gma, gpa, 6 yr old female, 2 11 yr old males, and 15 yr old female
  LE called in around 7 pm.
  Search begins sometime pretty quick after 7 pm .
  AT&T traingulates cell phone that was in EO possesion
October 22, 2009 (Thurs)
  Search continues for Elizabeth,
  Wooded area and rainy weather make searching hard
  Hundreds of volunteers and other help in search(dogs, helicopters etc)
  Cell phone is dead, no more pings.
October 23, 2009 (Friday)
  Search contiunes
  At approx 3 pm. LE releases information
     EO's body has been found, well concealed,
     15 yr old juvenile has lead them to the body
        Body well concealed
        Cell located near the body
     Some sort of written evidence also aided in finding EO, as well as other evidence
     15 yr old juvenile is in custody
   
 Things were are pretty certain on.
The 15 yr old juvenile is a female named Alyssa Bustamante
Sophmore at JCHS
Half sister of Elizabeths play mate.
She is being raisied by maternal grand parents(step gdad) GLB AND KSB, due to father(CTB) being in prison and mother(MLB) criminal history and multiple arrest, form drug abuse.
Has aunt KNB who recently married RP, her long time boyfriend.

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS

 EO sent home by gpa of AB
 EO called mom and said she was on her way home
  (I also read Eo said "I am coming home something happened here")
 AB gpa told EO's mom "EO was sent home"
 EO's mom called EO and told her to "get home"

AB called EO to come back to the house, after EO headed home

 Murder is premediatated
  Grave dug October 16, 2009
  AB had told friends at school she "wanted to kill someone to see how it felt"
  You Tube Acct list hobbies as "killing and cutting"
COD
  Strangulation
    (with "silk scarf")
  Cutting and stabbing

Grave is behind
  Elizabeths house
  "Directly" behind AB house
     *(in press release from Sheriff White, he stated body was found near where they began   search")

Information from (someone) lead LE to AB. (written info)


A search warrant was served on the house of AB.
  Reportedly a traffic warrant
  Gparents cooperated with LE
  Gparents were uncooperative.
    *(actually it could go both ways, maybe one time they cooperated and another they did not)

 
Search warrant turns up some knd of journal/diary belonging to AB
   Says
      Should have gone to church
 
AB Wednesday
  Called EO back to house
  Took both young girls to woods, but sent half sister back
   Did not help with search for Eo, wanted to "take shower"




 AB thursday
  Skipped school
  Was at school
   *(again both could be true, she skipped part of day)
  Found on school grounds w/ boyfriend after itis noticed she skipped
    *( we do not know WHO discovered her skipping if this is true)
  LE didnt question her this night cause she was high?

 AB friday
   Talk to LE
    FBI


 Other AB RUMORS
   Was a thrill kill
    Just because kill
   Planned to kill specifically EO maybe mths in advance
   Had help
   Did it alone
   Very good student
    homocidal and suicidal indications, hospitalized for them
    turtured animals and siblings
    Did it  because of jealousy
      possibley over cell phone
      possible connection to crimes in both families

 EO strangled, throat slashed and stabbed
    knife used


Let's see how much of the rest turns out to be true???



Okay have added MORE red, and slashed thru a few that occording to todyas report are false


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:21:48 AM
Fifteen Year Old To Be Tried As Adult in Murder of Elizabeth Olten

Video as well

JEFFERSON CITY, MO (KTVI-FOX2now.com) - A fifteen year old girl will be tried as an adult in the October murder of a nine year old. Alyssa Bustamante was charged Wednesday with strangling Elizabeth Olten, then cutting her throat and stabbing her. Bustamante and Oletn were neighbors when the October 21st killing happened.

In court Wednesday prosecutors said Bustamante told investigators she, "wanted to see what it feld like to kill someone." In the same hearing, a Highway Patrol officer testified that the 15 year old admitted digging two holes with the intention of burying Elizabeth. Juvenile officers called it a sign the girl's murder by stabbing and strangulation was premeditated.

Bustamante is charged with First Degree Murder in the case, and faces an additional charge of Armed Criminal Action because she use a knife.

Prosecutors argued that Bustamante, who is nearly 16, would likely not be rehabilitated by the time she turns 21. That is when she would have been set free from the juvenile justice system.

Bustamante had been undergoing treatment for a mental illness.

She faces life in prison without parole if convicted.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-murder-suspect-111809,0,4511840.story


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:28:20 AM

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234


Family history, troubled teen shows where Bustamante came from

By Mallory McGowin
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 7:05 p.m.
Last updated: 1 hour, 11 minutes ago

Read more: Local, Crime, Community, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Juvenile, Family History


COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Alyssa Bustamante is the 15 year old girl a Cole County grand jury believes killed nine year old Elizabeth Olten one month ago.

She is a sophomore at Jefferson City High School and will turn 16 in January.

Several of Alyssa's Facebook friends. They tell us they are stunned their fun-loving friend is an accused murderer.

They say Alyssa has lived a hard life.

ALYSSA'S BACKGROUND

Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California.

Alyssa has lived with her grandparents and three younger siblings in St. Martins for several years on a ranch-style property at 626 Lomo Drive, just four houses down from Elizabeth Olten and her family.

Neighbors and family friends tell us Elizabeth Olten often played with both Alyssa and Alyssa's siblings.

In Wednesday's court proceedings, juvenile authorities said Alyssa's home was a stable one with adequate support from her grandparents.

Since moving to St. Martins, Alyssa Bustamante has attended the Jefferson City location of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Mormon church, with her grandparents. KRCG is told Alyssa participated in several different youth activities at the church.

Academic tests also reveal Alyssa is a gifted student, but that she sometimes did not apply herself in class.

TROUBLED TEEN

But there is also a troubled side to this teen.

Her You Tube page lists her hobbies as "killing people and cutting."

In fact, juvenile court says they have had to trim her fingernails because she was using them to cut-up her arms.

She also tried to commit suicide in September 2007 and was hospitalized. Alyssa then received intense, sometimes daily therapy since that incident.

She has also been taking Prozac to combat her depression.

Alyssa's Twitter page shows what some call "dark" postings, talking about bad decisions and be buried.

Juvenile court officials said during Wednesday's hearing that Alyssa went through a short gothic phase, dressing in all black clothes, last year while attending Simonsen Ninth Grade Center.

BIOLOGICAL PARENTS

Juvenile officials say Alyssa has maintained a relationship with both her mother and father.

Her mother Michelle Bustamante has a history of drug and alcohol charges and her father Ceasar Bustamante is serving several more years in a Missouri prison on assault charges.




 
A timeline of events leading up to Elizabeth's murder

By Matt Grant
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 10:39 p.m.

Read more: Local, Crime, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Bustamante


JEFFERSON CITY -- Friday Oct. 16

Friday Oct. 16 was parent-teacher conferences and Alyssa Bustamante had a day off from school. It was on this day that highway patrol says she dug two graves in the woods behind her home.

Bustamante was familiar with the property behind her house, according to court testimony. She even got in trouble twice for spending the night in the woods.

The two graves she dug sat there over the weekend and into the next week as Bustamante attended school Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Wednesday Oct. 21

The morning of the murder, Bustamante posted Twitter messages saying she was "in class" at Jefferson City High School and "bored as f---."

That afternoon, 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten would have walked from her home on Lomo Drive in St. Martins and traveled four houses to get to Bustamante's house. Neighbors said she played there often with the Bustamante's twin brothers and younger sister.

On the night of the murder there were horses in front of her house. Those horses are now gone, replaced with no trespassing signs.

Around 6:15 p.m., Elizabeth was supposed to come home. Family members told reporters that after she left someone called her cell phone telling her to come back to Bustamante's house.

Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.
Thursday Oct. 22

That led to Bustamante missing school on Thursday. The high school principal said it was her first and only unexcused absence.

Friday Oct. 23

Mid-day the sheriff said "written evidence" led them to Bustamante.

After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before


Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.
Thursday Oct. 22

That led to Bustamante missing school on Thursday. The high school principal said it was her first and only unexcused absence.

-----------------

Very interesting,  She did not skip school , grand parents took her to a psych hosp. Why would that be?  Did they already know that night?  Explains Sherriff White's statement that "once they located the juvinile".  Unexcused absense would mean to me that gradparents did not call school to tell them she was in hosp.  Being in hosp would classify as an excused absence.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 19, 2009, 12:35:11 AM

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234


Family history, troubled teen shows where Bustamante came from

By Mallory McGowin
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 7:05 p.m.
Last updated: 1 hour, 11 minutes ago

Read more: Local, Crime, Community, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Juvenile, Family History


COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Alyssa Bustamante is the 15 year old girl a Cole County grand jury believes killed nine year old Elizabeth Olten one month ago.

She is a sophomore at Jefferson City High School and will turn 16 in January.

Several of Alyssa's Facebook friends. They tell us they are stunned their fun-loving friend is an accused murderer.

They say Alyssa has lived a hard life.

ALYSSA'S BACKGROUND

Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California.

Alyssa has lived with her grandparents and three younger siblings in St. Martins for several years on a ranch-style property at 626 Lomo Drive, just four houses down from Elizabeth Olten and her family.

Neighbors and family friends tell us Elizabeth Olten often played with both Alyssa and Alyssa's siblings.

In Wednesday's court proceedings, juvenile authorities said Alyssa's home was a stable one with adequate support from her grandparents.

Since moving to St. Martins, Alyssa Bustamante has attended the Jefferson City location of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Mormon church, with her grandparents. KRCG is told Alyssa participated in several different youth activities at the church.

Academic tests also reveal Alyssa is a gifted student, but that she sometimes did not apply herself in class.

TROUBLED TEEN

But there is also a troubled side to this teen.

Her You Tube page lists her hobbies as "killing people and cutting."

In fact, juvenile court says they have had to trim her fingernails because she was using them to cut-up her arms.

She also tried to commit suicide in September 2007 and was hospitalized. Alyssa then received intense, sometimes daily therapy since that incident.

She has also been taking Prozac to combat her depression.

Alyssa's Twitter page shows what some call "dark" postings, talking about bad decisions and be buried.

Juvenile court officials said during Wednesday's hearing that Alyssa went through a short gothic phase, dressing in all black clothes, last year while attending Simonsen Ninth Grade Center.

BIOLOGICAL PARENTS

Juvenile officials say Alyssa has maintained a relationship with both her mother and father.

Her mother Michelle Bustamante has a history of drug and alcohol charges and her father Ceasar Bustamante is serving several more years in a Missouri prison on assault charges.




 
A timeline of events leading up to Elizabeth's murder

By Matt Grant
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 10:39 p.m.

Read more: Local, Crime, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Bustamante


JEFFERSON CITY -- Friday Oct. 16

Friday Oct. 16 was parent-teacher conferences and Alyssa Bustamante had a day off from school. It was on this day that highway patrol says she dug two graves in the woods behind her home.

Bustamante was familiar with the property behind her house, according to court testimony. She even got in trouble twice for spending the night in the woods.

The two graves she dug sat there over the weekend and into the next week as Bustamante attended school Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Wednesday Oct. 21

The morning of the murder, Bustamante posted Twitter messages saying she was "in class" at Jefferson City High School and "bored as f---."

That afternoon, 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten would have walked from her home on Lomo Drive in St. Martins and traveled four houses to get to Bustamante's house. Neighbors said she played there often with the Bustamante's twin brothers and younger sister.

On the night of the murder there were horses in front of her house. Those horses are now gone, replaced with no trespassing signs.

Around 6:15 p.m., Elizabeth was supposed to come home. Family members told reporters that after she left someone called her cell phone telling her to come back to Bustamante's house.

Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.
Thursday Oct. 22

That led to Bustamante missing school on Thursday. The high school principal said it was her first and only unexcused absence.

Friday Oct. 23

Mid-day the sheriff said "written evidence" led them to Bustamante.

After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before


Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.
Thursday Oct. 22

That led to Bustamante missing school on Thursday. The high school principal said it was her first and only unexcused absence.

-----------------

Very interesting,  She did not skip school , grand parents took her to a psych hosp. Why would that be?  Did they already know that night?  Explains Sherriff White's statement that "once they located the juvinile".  Unexcused absense would mean to me that gradparents did not call school to tell them she was in hosp.  Being in hosp would classify as an excused absence.

I have a stinky feeling they knew they really did not NEED to call in to the HS, she would not be returning......I honestly did not believe it could get any sadder then a 9 yr old being murdered..but apparently it does. I am sorry if I had one thought that a child of mine could even be knowledge of a crime like this I would take them STRAIGHT to the LE.... Basically it appears by taking Alyssa to a hospital THEY prolonged Elizabeths family torment!!! AS always simply my opinion!~!! I do not even know what to think about this one...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 19, 2009, 12:53:10 AM
Cached from Alyssa's Myspace - Which is now private www.myspace.com/ramen_noodles_w00t

Cached link: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:urQVprAetTQJ:www.myspace.com/ramen_noodles_w00t+myspace+ramen_noodles_w00t&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

alyssaheartsyou<3.
# 15 / Female
# Missouri, US
# Last Login: 10/30/2009
 

grounded from my phone fer two effin weeks. can i convince my gparents for a party? maybe.
Mood: chill chill
Posted at 10:57 PM Oct 19 view more



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 19, 2009, 01:13:05 AM
Thank you for the answers to my questions! Yall are great!

Also, did anyone watch Nancy Grace? One of the reporters were talking about how the crime had to have been done in the woods because Alyssa couldn't have carried Elizabeth's 60 lb body...

Elizabeth was 102 lbs I believe? Or roughly around that...

Also, Nancy called Elizabeth 8 years old...even though her headline said "9 YEAR OLD  murdered"..

Do they not do their research?! Not that it matters because those are minor details in the case but still?? Anyone else notice?
Yes I did notice that on tonights show NG mentioned Elizabeth was 8 yrs. old...but I just think it was an honest mistake because she was talking a little bit about this case a few weeks ago and did mention Elizabeth was 9 yrs. old.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Tams on November 19, 2009, 01:29:50 AM
"Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital."

. . . . Well now, perhaps this answers some of the questions we were perplexed about in the beginning, re: how could Alyssa's g-parents not realize something was wrong when she returned home after committing this act? Perhaps she did return covered in blood, in a daze (not speaking of what she had done?); based on her previous history (suicide attempts), they rushed her to emergency at the psych hospital . . . . ? Would answer all of the questions re: did she sneak back in, basement entrances, had a change of clothes, etc. . .


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 19, 2009, 02:18:41 AM
Jefferson City Mo - Court Case Juvenile sentenced to " Death Row" for Murder - appealed and overturned

Christopher Simmons

http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/juvjus/simmons.html

snipped: The Missouri Supreme Court ruled in August 2003 that the execution of those who committed crimes while under the age of 18 violates evolving standards of decency and is, therefore, prohibited by the Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution. The Court set aside Chris's death sentence and re-sentenced him to life in prison without the possibility of probation or parole. To read the Missouri Supreme Court's opinion, please click here. To read the Missouri Attorney General's brief to the Supreme Court arguing against Chris and for the juvenile death penalty, please click here.

I post this because this case is a Match of AB - The courts go on and on and on of his childhood and his parents were abusive and unfit etc... they even gave him a label of being a tormented child diagnosed with ((snipped: http://www.ccadp.org/christophersimmons.htm ))

  Mental illness.  He was abusing drugs and alcohol at the time of the
crime and was found to be suffering from schizotypal disorder, a condition
symptoms of which include pervasive deficits affecting his ability to
interact with others.

within all the babble of the court - comes down to the act he committed which was that He  kidnapped a innocent woman from her home then " KILLED" her....  ::MonkeyNoNo::

BUT he is a really Great KID NOW ....... ::MonkeyConfused::
---------------------------------------
Love to all and Good Nightly Night ~ I am out, my Monkey brain is "full" .. and its not filled with Banana's either.  ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyRoll::

Justice for Elizabeth ~ The Little girl who didn't deserve any of this ..... ::MonkeyAngel::





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 19, 2009, 07:00:30 AM
http://www.theitem.com/article/20091119/APNEWS01/711199947
Police: Missouri teen dug grave anticipating
murder Date Published: November 19, 2009

(http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SI&Date=20091119&Category=APNEWS01&ArtNo=711199947&Ref=AR&MaxW=250&border=0)
The Associated Press
This picture provided on Wednesday by the Cole County Sheriff's Department shows Alyssa Bustamante. On Wendesday, a judge entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of the 15-year-old-girl charged as an adult in the strangulation and stabbing death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.    

By DAVID A. LIEB
Associated Press Writer

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. – Blessed with a Friday off school, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante dug two holes in the ground to be used as a grave, authorities said. For the next week, she attended classes, all the while plotting the right time for a murder, they said.

That time arrived the evening of Oct. 21, when Bustamante strangled 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten without provocation, cut the girl's throat and stabbed her, prosecutors said. Why?

"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like," Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice testified Wednesday during a court hearing over the slaying.

Rice, who interviewed Bustamante in the days after Elizabeth's disappearance, said she confessed to investigators and led them to the fourth grader's well-concealed body in a wooded area near their neighborhood in St. Martins, a small town west of Jefferson City.
A Cole County judge ruled Wednesday that Bustamante, who has been held in Missouri's juvenile justice system, should be tried as an adult. Hours later, the teen was indicted on adult charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action for allegedly using a knife to kill Elizabeth. A judge later entered a not guilty plea on Bustamante's behalf and referred her to the public defender's office.

The court proceedings marked the first time that the suspect in Elizabeth's death had been publicly identified since a two-day search for the girl by hundreds of volunteers. When they found Elizabeth's body Oct. 23, authorities only said that a 15-year-old had led them to it and was in custody for the slaying.

Bustamante remained largely expressionless as she sat with her hands shackled around her waist in court Wednesday. She occasionally looked down beneath the brown bangs that covered her eyes and swallowed hard as a judge read the charges against her.

On one side of the courtroom sat her mother and grandmother, who has been Bustamante's legal guardian for about half of her life. On the other side sat Elizabeth's mother, relatives and friends, several of whom wore pink – Elizabeth's favorite color.

Bustamante was ordered held without bond pending her trial. If convicted of first-degree murder, she would be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Witnesses at Bustamante's adult certification hearing described a girl who was bright yet depressed and clever in a sometimes sneaky sort of way. She ranked in roughly the top third of her class at Jefferson City High School, the principal said, and had been in no trouble at school or with the law.
Yet Bustamante had tried to commit suicide at age 13 and had been receiving mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself, said David Cook, the chief juvenile officer in Cole County. Once, she led her family to believe she was attending a local church event when she instead sneaked off to a concert in St. Louis, about two hours away, Cook said. On one or two other occasions, Bustamante spent the night in the woods without permission, he said.

After her arrest, Bustamante tried to cut herself with her own fingernails while being held in juvenile custody, said her appointed juvenile defense attorney Kurt Valentine.

He argued Bustamante should remain in the juvenile system, where she could potentially be rehabilitated before being set free by age 21. Valentine warned that Bustamante would either kill herself or be assaulted and killed by others if she were placed in an adult jail cell or prison.
"We are throwing away the child and we are signing a death sentence for Alyssa," Valentine said. "She is not going to survive her time in the Cole County jail."

Cole County Sheriff Greg White said later that Bustamante would be held at a different, undisclosed location.

Cook recommended Bustamante be tried as an adult. Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem agreed, saying the killing was vicious and that the state had no adequate facilities or services to treat Bustamante if she remained in the juvenile system.

Bill Heberle, with the Missouri Division of Youth Services, testified that the state has no secure facilities with fences for female juveniles. Youths in Missouri's juvenile system generally are housed in group settings and are not typically watched by staff 24 hours a day, he said.
(http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SI&Date=20091119&Category=APNEWS01&ArtNo=711199947&Ref=V2&MaxW=215&border=0)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 07:49:23 AM
good morning, Monkeys!

I want to give a huge "thank you" to those who have spent so much time over the last weeks gathering info.  I'm very glad that it got to be posted!

I'm going to spend some time reading up on all of this, and then have some stuff to do - but wanted to just add my .02 and that is how sorry I am that sweet Elizabeth had to lay out in the dirt and woods for 3 days, while Alyssa was in a mental hospital.

Either some people are dumb as rocks, or some people are smart as foxes, getting their ducks in a row before meeting with authorities.

That just bites to make Elizabeth's family suffer in that way.

Have a good day, Monkeys - and thanks again.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 19, 2009, 08:10:14 AM
My fact vs rumor post from Nov 8 2009;(copied and pasted)
 Parts in Red turned out to be true
Been trying to put facts vs rumors on paper, thought I would share her so we can kinda have an idea where we are, and have all facts and rumors in one spot!!!


 FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS

October 21 2009 (Wednesday)
 
 9 yr old Elizabeth Olten disappears after playing at friend house, last contact was sometime after 6 pm.
  Elizabeth was a 4th grader at Pioneer Trails Elem in Jefferson Cty.
  Elizabeth was playing at a neighbors house, aprox 1/2 miles from her own home.
  In residence of that house a gma, gpa, 6 yr old female, 2 11 yr old males, and 15 yr old female
  LE called in around 7 pm.
  Search begins sometime pretty quick after 7 pm .
  AT&T traingulates cell phone that was in EO possesion
October 22, 2009 (Thurs)
  Search continues for Elizabeth,
  Wooded area and rainy weather make searching hard
  Hundreds of volunteers and other help in search(dogs, helicopters etc)
  Cell phone is dead, no more pings.
October 23, 2009 (Friday)
  Search contiunes
  At approx 3 pm. LE releases information
     EO's body has been found, well concealed,
     15 yr old juvenile has lead them to the body
        Body well concealed
        Cell located near the body
     Some sort of written evidence also aided in finding EO, as well as other evidence
     15 yr old juvenile is in custody
   
 Things were are pretty certain on.
The 15 yr old juvenile is a female named Alyssa Bustamante
Sophmore at JCHS
Half sister of Elizabeths play mate.
She is being raisied by maternal grand parents(step gdad) GLB AND KSB, due to father(CTB) being in prison and mother(MLB) criminal history and multiple arrest, form drug abuse.
Has aunt KNB who recently married RP, her long time boyfriend.

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS

 EO sent home by gpa of AB
 EO called mom and said she was on her way home
  (I also read Eo said "I am coming home something happened here")
 AB gpa told EO's mom "EO was sent home"
 EO's mom called EO and told her to "get home"

AB called EO to come back to the house, after EO headed home

 Murder is premediatated
  Grave dug October 16, 2009
  AB had told friends at school she "wanted to kill someone to see how it felt"
  You Tube Acct list hobbies as "killing and cutting"
COD
  Strangulation
    (with "silk scarf")
  Cutting and stabbing

Grave is behind
  Elizabeths house
  "Directly" behind AB house
     *(in press release from Sheriff White, he stated body was found near where they began   search")

Information from (someone) lead LE to AB. (written info)


A search warrant was served on the house of AB.
  Reportedly a traffic warrant
  Gparents cooperated with LE
  Gparents were uncooperative.
    *(actually it could go both ways, maybe one time they cooperated and another they did not)

 
Search warrant turns up some knd of journal/diary belonging to AB
   Says
      Should have gone to church
 
AB Wednesday
  Called EO back to house
  Took both young girls to woods, but sent half sister back
   Did not help with search for Eo, wanted to "take shower"




 AB thursday
  Skipped school
  Was at school
   *(again both could be true, she skipped part of day)
  Found on school grounds w/ boyfriend after itis noticed she skipped
    *( we do not know WHO discovered her skipping if this is true)
  LE didnt question her this night cause she was high?

 AB friday
   Talk to LE
    FBI


 Other AB RUMORS
   Was a thrill kill
    Just because kill
   Planned to kill specifically EO maybe mths in advance
   Had help
   Did it alone
   Very good student
    homocidal and suicidal indications, hospitalized for them
    turtured animals and siblings
    Did it  because of jealousy
      possibley over cell phone
      possible connection to crimes in both families

 EO strangled, throat slashed and stabbed
    knife used


Let's see how much of the rest turns out to be true???



Okay have added MORE red, and slashed thru a few that occording to todyas report are false
where did we hear that the Grandparents were uncooperative? Also, the picture of where Elizabeth was buried....where did that come from? What or who is the source of that picture? Thanks!!!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 08:24:29 AM
I think the way the grandparents handled this is very telling.  Instead of holding the monster's toes to the fire, they spirit her off to St. Louis.  Can you imagine?  They left the Olten family suffering and in agony not knowing where that precious child was.  I think it speaks volumes. 

I'd beat my kid within an inch of her life to get the knowledge to recover that baby's body.  :*(


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 08:49:07 AM

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234


Family history, troubled teen shows where Bustamante came from

By Mallory McGowin
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 7:05 p.m.
Last updated: 1 hour, 11 minutes ago

Read more: Local, Crime, Community, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Juvenile, Family History


COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Alyssa Bustamante is the 15 year old girl a Cole County grand jury believes killed nine year old Elizabeth Olten one month ago.

She is a sophomore at Jefferson City High School and will turn 16 in January.

Several of Alyssa's Facebook friends. They tell us they are stunned their fun-loving friend is an accused murderer.

They say Alyssa has lived a hard life.

ALYSSA'S BACKGROUND

Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California.

Alyssa has lived with her grandparents and three younger siblings in St. Martins for several years on a ranch-style property at 626 Lomo Drive, just four houses down from Elizabeth Olten and her family.

Neighbors and family friends tell us Elizabeth Olten often played with both Alyssa and Alyssa's siblings.

In Wednesday's court proceedings, juvenile authorities said Alyssa's home was a stable one with adequate support from her grandparents.

Since moving to St. Martins, Alyssa Bustamante has attended the Jefferson City location of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Mormon church, with her grandparents. KRCG is told Alyssa participated in several different youth activities at the church.

Academic tests also reveal Alyssa is a gifted student, but that she sometimes did not apply herself in class.

TROUBLED TEEN

But there is also a troubled side to this teen.

Her You Tube page lists her hobbies as "killing people and cutting."

In fact, juvenile court says they have had to trim her fingernails because she was using them to cut-up her arms.

She also tried to commit suicide in September 2007 and was hospitalized. Alyssa then received intense, sometimes daily therapy since that incident.

She has also been taking Prozac to combat her depression.

Alyssa's Twitter page shows what some call "dark" postings, talking about bad decisions and be buried.

Juvenile court officials said during Wednesday's hearing that Alyssa went through a short gothic phase, dressing in all black clothes, last year while attending Simonsen Ninth Grade Center.

BIOLOGICAL PARENTS

Juvenile officials say Alyssa has maintained a relationship with both her mother and father.

Her mother Michelle Bustamante has a history of drug and alcohol charges and her father Ceasar Bustamante is serving several more years in a Missouri prison on assault charges.




 
A timeline of events leading up to Elizabeth's murder

By Matt Grant
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 10:39 p.m.

Read more: Local, Crime, Elizabeth Olten, Alyssa Bustamante, Bustamante


JEFFERSON CITY -- Friday Oct. 16

Friday Oct. 16 was parent-teacher conferences and Alyssa Bustamante had a day off from school. It was on this day that highway patrol says she dug two graves in the woods behind her home.

Bustamante was familiar with the property behind her house, according to court testimony. She even got in trouble twice for spending the night in the woods.

The two graves she dug sat there over the weekend and into the next week as Bustamante attended school Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Wednesday Oct. 21

The morning of the murder, Bustamante posted Twitter messages saying she was "in class" at Jefferson City High School and "bored as f---."

That afternoon, 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten would have walked from her home on Lomo Drive in St. Martins and traveled four houses to get to Bustamante's house. Neighbors said she played there often with the Bustamante's twin brothers and younger sister.

On the night of the murder there were horses in front of her house. Those horses are now gone, replaced with no trespassing signs.

Around 6:15 p.m., Elizabeth was supposed to come home. Family members told reporters that after she left someone called her cell phone telling her to come back to Bustamante's house.

Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.
Thursday Oct. 22

That led to Bustamante missing school on Thursday. The high school principal said it was her first and only unexcused absence.

Friday Oct. 23

Mid-day the sheriff said "written evidence" led them to Bustamante.

After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before


Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.
Thursday Oct. 22

That led to Bustamante missing school on Thursday. The high school principal said it was her first and only unexcused absence.

-----------------

Very interesting,  She did not skip school , grand parents took her to a psych hosp. Why would that be?  Did they already know that night?  Explains Sherriff White's statement that "once they located the juvinile".  Unexcused absense would mean to me that gradparents did not call school to tell them she was in hosp.  Being in hosp would classify as an excused absence.

At this point, we don't know what Alyssa's demeanor was like.  Perhaps the grandparents just knew she needed help but didn't know what had happened.  I can't believe they would just go off and not tell anyone if they knew what she had done..... maybe I am naive.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 09:00:55 AM


-----------------

Very interesting,  She did not skip school , grand parents took her to a psych hosp. Why would that be?  Did they already know that night?  Explains Sherriff White's statement that "once they located the juvinile".  Unexcused absense would mean to me that gradparents did not call school to tell them she was in hosp.  Being in hosp would classify as an excused absence.
[/quote]

At this point, we don't know what Alyssa's demeanor was like.  Perhaps the grandparents just knew she needed help but didn't know what had happened.  I can't believe they would just go off and not tell anyone if they knew what she had done..... maybe I am naive.
[/quote]






I don't think your naive--maybe kind hearted LOL. I don't think it's a stretch to think the grandparents absolutely knew Alyssa had something to do with Elizabeth's disappearance. ( It was still a missing girl at the time.) I believe that they not only knew she was involved but knew that she went as far as killed her and they wanted her out of the house as fast as possible so they boogied to St. Louis and checked her in. I think they knew she was capable of doing great harm but were in denial that she would go through with it. I honestly think Grandma won't win any parenting awards as she failed miserably. I refuse to think she didn't have warning bells going off every single day. She could have, should have done more. Period.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 19, 2009, 09:21:53 AM


-----------------

Very interesting,  She did not skip school , grand parents took her to a psych hosp. Why would that be?  Did they already know that night?  Explains Sherriff White's statement that "once they located the juvinile".  Unexcused absense would mean to me that gradparents did not call school to tell them she was in hosp.  Being in hosp would classify as an excused absence.

At this point, we don't know what Alyssa's demeanor was like.  Perhaps the grandparents just knew she needed help but didn't know what had happened.  I can't believe they would just go off and not tell anyone if they knew what she had done..... maybe I am naive.
[/quote]






I don't think your naive--maybe kind hearted LOL. I don't think it's a stretch to think the grandparents absolutely knew Alyssa had something to do with Elizabeth's disappearance. ( It was still a missing girl at the time.) I believe that they not only knew she was involved but knew that she went as far as killed her and they wanted her out of the house as fast as possible so they boogied to St. Louis and checked her in. I think they knew she was capable of doing great harm but were in denial that she would go through with it. I honestly think Grandma won't win any parenting awards as she failed miserably. I refuse to think she didn't have warning bells going off every single day. She could have, should have done more. Period.
[/quote]
Sounds like whomever boogied her too St. Louis could be in some trouble. I thought that was called aiding and abetting. I don't know, I just feel really sorry for Elizabeth and her family.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: sunshine12 on November 19, 2009, 09:23:10 AM
now i know why the rumors of the grandparents being uncooperative started.  they pretty much took her to the mental hospital so it made it much harder for authorities to locate and question her.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 09:29:44 AM
wow, never noticed this one before....how eerie..........

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/Egrave.jpg)

Where did you find that picture?

it was with the picture in the photobucket link, saying that is where EO was found


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 09:34:44 AM
if it was innocence on the part of the grandparents, I struggle to understand how that can be.

Doesn't take much to connect the dots - it's not like a 9 year old goes missing walking home from their house every day...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 09:37:03 AM
After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before

one week before the murder or one week before from the day she took them to her body (I always thought she dug the grave on Friday)

Also, as far as the grandparents are concerned, it is possible that they "had a feeling" she was involved, but Alyssa wouldn't tell them anything so they threatened her with "we are taking you to the nuthouse unless you tell us if you know something".  She refused, they took her, at nut house, she confesses or reveals something, nut house calls LE, etc etc...............just a possibility.  It would be very hard to turn in someone you love without them actually saying outloud that they knew something.  You would want to make very sure they were involved before you called them out.  I am not saying I agree with what they did AT ALL, just saying, that's a possibility.....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 19, 2009, 09:41:35 AM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 09:45:03 AM
After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before

one week before the murder or one week before from the day she took them to her body (I always thought she dug the grave on Friday)

Also, as far as the grandparents are concerned, it is possible that they "had a feeling" she was involved, but Alyssa wouldn't tell them anything so they threatened her with "we are taking you to the nuthouse unless you tell us if you know something".  She refused, they took her, at nut house, she confesses or reveals something, nut house calls LE, etc etc...............just a possibility.  It would be very hard to turn in someone you love without them actually saying outloud that they knew something.  You would want to make very sure they were involved before you called them out.  I am not saying I agree with what they did AT ALL, just saying, that's a possibility.....

you could be right that it happened that way, but my opinion is that they really dropped the ball.

A child was missing, a family extremely distraught, a town in chaos, helicopters, search dogs, cops from different agencies brought in....

If it turns out that they had sufficient evidence that their granddaughter was involved in the disappearance of Elizabeth Olten, I would hope that Elizabeth's family sues them in a civil court for the pain and suffering that they caused by not coming forward immediately.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 09:45:22 AM
Because the case went through the grand jury, no probable cause statement was filed with the circuit clerk's office as normally would occur with charges filed directly by the prosecutor.
This bothers me, the only reason they didn't file a probably cause statement was to keep info out of the media.....that's BS



Bustamante is the only person being charged in the murder, he said.
Hmmmmm, well, besides that being OBVIOUS, why mention it......there may be more to come on that one I'm sure


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 09:46:40 AM
i can not stand it when murdered individuals bodies are referred to as "it".

That "it" has a name. 

imo.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 09:47:04 AM
After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before

one week before the murder or one week before from the day she took them to her body (I always thought she dug the grave on Friday)

Also, as far as the grandparents are concerned, it is possible that they "had a feeling" she was involved, but Alyssa wouldn't tell them anything so they threatened her with "we are taking you to the nuthouse unless you tell us if you know something".  She refused, they took her, at nut house, she confesses or reveals something, nut house calls LE, etc etc...............just a possibility.  It would be very hard to turn in someone you love without them actually saying outloud that they knew something.  You would want to make very sure they were involved before you called them out.  I am not saying I agree with what they did AT ALL, just saying, that's a possibility.....



I get what you're saying about the possibilty that they wanted to make sure beforehand. My take on it is that they had  ALOT of history with Alyssa as far as her instability. The depression, the cutting, (somewhere it was mentioned about her prior internet activities according to the therapist statement), spending the nights in the woods on more than one oocasion and the big glaring suicide attempt when she was barely 13. If this is what WE KNOW then there has to be even more that we don't know and I just can't see how Grandma didn't see it that night knowing that Elizabeth was missing and frequented that house. Not to mention that the 6 year old was playing with Elizabeth that very day. How could she not know that? Even if Alyssa was supposed to babysit--how could grandma even trust Alyssa with that kind of history to watch a 6 year old? I don't know but to me taking her to the nut house that very night smacks of serious intent to hide something and they knew exactly what happened. If they had any kind of faith in Alyssa there would have been different behaviour.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 09:49:45 AM
I forgot to add ( i hate that I can't edit!) that Alyssa looks seriously drugged in that mugshot. Which makes me think that whatever happened at the hospital ended up in that they had to medicate her.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 09:55:38 AM
I forgot to add ( i hate that I can't edit!) that Alyssa looks seriously drugged in that mugshot. Which makes me think that whatever happened at the hospital ended up in that they had to medicate her.

I think that mugshot was taken yesterday after she was ARRESTED.  I do believe before that she was just DETAINED, and therefore no mugshots were taken.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 10:01:18 AM
I believe that when she was taken into custody on October 23 and charged with murder, any booking documents would've been sealed with the juvenile court system.

The booking photo from yesterday, imo, shows her looking either drugged, or worn out from all of this.

She looks like she's getting a lot of experience in what it feels like to kill someone.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 10:02:59 AM
Here is a link to a interview with Alyssa's self proclaimed Best friend Aka Smooth Criminal via myspace


http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001



Her dad says in the interview she new Alyssa wanted to kill ! Just didn't think she would go through with it  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 10:04:29 AM
Here is a link to a interview with Alyssa's self proclaimed Best friend Aka Smooth Criminal via myspace


http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001



Her dad says in the interview she new Alyssa wanted to kill ! Just didn't think she would go through with it  ::MonkeyShocked::

thank you.

I KNEW that Charlie would try to cash in!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 10:06:06 AM
That felt good!  I have more but need to go through it to make sure minors are not posted.

NR ::MonkeyCheer2:: ::MonkeyCheer2::  if anything even happens to me, I want YOU on the case!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 10:06:25 AM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
Here is a link to a interview with Alyssa's self proclaimed Best friend Aka Smooth Criminal via myspace


http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001



Her dad says in the interview she new Alyssa wanted to kill ! Just didn't think she would go through with it  ::MonkeyShocked::

tells me it has been removed or deleted..........


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 10:09:12 AM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

that's better, thanks :) ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 10:09:54 AM
did Charlie change her name for the interview, or was I wrong that her name was similar to Charlie?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 10:12:19 AM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

that's better, thanks :) ::MonkeyTongue::
Yea sorry bout that first one:( I noticed it didn't work right after I posted it


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 10:12:35 AM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

Thanks. I got it through this link.  So there is Smooth Criminal and did you see that big grin she had from the noteriety?  And her father... can't believe he would even say what he did... didn't look good for his daughter to say that... did it?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 10:13:11 AM
Thanks for the link--the second one worked for me. WELL THAT EXPLAINS A LOT. After seeing that video of her and her dad, its not hard to see why she had free reign on her MS page. Geez.....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 10:14:06 AM
did Charlie change her name for the interview, or was I wrong that her name was similar to Charlie?
Well that is what she had her mane set as on her myspace originally.I remember someone mentioning the original name was a character from a book.She prolly thought it sounded cool But now she has hit the big time doing interviews and what not.What to get her name out there i guess ;p  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 10:19:06 AM
did Charlie change her name for the interview, or was I wrong that her name was similar to Charlie?
Well that is what she had her mane set as on her myspace originally.I remember someone mentioning the original name was a character from a book.She prolly thought it sounded cool But now she has hit the big time doing interviews and what not.What to get her name out there i guess ;p  ::MonkeyConfused::

I saw her myspace right after the arrest on Oct. 23 and after running a check on her, found that her name is Charlo*** Rhodes.

Just wondering why she used Trisha in the interview.

Maybe I was wrong about her legal name - just as I was wrong about her location.

One thing I think I am correct on, though, is how shocked her audience would be if they saw her special story that she wrote in honor of Elizabeth's death.

What a sweetie.

See ya'll later.  Keep up the good work and I'll try to check back often on the progress.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 10:19:15 AM
 
☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal
Trisha Rhodes 
   Female
17 years old
Foreverland a.k.a Forks, Washington
United States



Last Login: 11/18/2009
 
Mood: missing alyssa   
 
 
 Latest myspace update... guess she isn't grounded any longer?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 10:20:00 AM
You know emotions are running high over in JC right now. WTH was that dad thinking letting his daughter go on camera? What a complete dillhole.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 10:22:11 AM
What happened when? Bustamante's timeline  Video

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 10:22:57 AM
http://www.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl

Honestly, this gal acts like this is all a big game.....geesh!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 10:25:22 AM
You know emotions are running high over in JC right now. WTH was that dad thinking letting his daughter go on camera? What a complete dillhole.

Dillhole.  The best word in the world.  Glad to see I am not the only person who uses and adores it.   LOL   ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 10:35:41 AM
What happened when? Bustamante's timeline  Video

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx


That's a good timeline. So she kills Elizabeth BEFORE 7pm at least because the call to LE was around that time. It takes about 2-3 hours to get to St. Louis. So you have to figure the grandparents initially were home about 7pm. I'm thinking they put it all together what happened once they found out Elizabeth was missing. I'm willing to bet Alyssa was on pure adrenaline rush coming in and having just done what she's been talking about doing for a long time. I bet she was in a  full blown psychotic state. They loaded her up and took off. If they got to St. Louis say by 11pm and the time to check her into a hospital it would've been the wee morning hours of Thursday when the Grandparents got home. Maybe they even bunked down at a hotel instead of driving back. Regardless, they knew what she did.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 10:37:55 AM
wow, never noticed this one before....how eerie..........

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/Egrave.jpg)

Where did you find that picture?

it was with the picture in the photobucket link, saying that is where EO was found

Thanks, was that on the CrankyCrankerson one?

Good Morning Everybody. I left last night after getting booted and was having trouble getting back on line. I think I was just overtired.

The fact that the Brooke's hightailed Alyssa out of town does it for me. By the time they did that, they had to know Elizabeth was missing, and she was leaving from their house. I believe they would have at least gotten a phone call about it. My gut was telling me the truth. The Brooke's were obstructing and being non-cooperative from the beginning and enabling Alyssa instead of helping her. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 10:38:21 AM
You know emotions are running high over in JC right now. WTH was that dad thinking letting his daughter go on camera? What a complete dillhole.

Wow.  Daddy must be so proud that his spawn knew the Monster wanted to do it for the experience but never did anything.  Wonder what else spawn knew?  Elizabeth is dead and they did nothing.  I hope the Olten's find a nice civil lawyer.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 10:45:18 AM
What happened when? Bustamante's timeline  Video

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx


That's a good timeline. So she kills Elizabeth BEFORE 7pm at least because the call to LE was around that time. It takes about 2-3 hours to get to St. Louis. So you have to figure the grandparents initially were home about 7pm. I'm thinking they put it all together what happened once they found out Elizabeth was missing. I'm willing to bet Alyssa was on pure adrenaline rush coming in and having just done what she's been talking about doing for a long time. I bet she was in a  full blown psychotic state. They loaded her up and took off. If they got to St. Louis say by 11pm and the time to check her into a hospital it would've been the wee morning hours of Thursday when the Grandparents got home. Maybe they even bunked down at a hotel instead of driving back. Regardless, they knew what she did.

Totally agree.  The Monster would have been full of adrenaline and glee from accomplishing something she had wanted to.  It had been raining, a lot.  She tried to strangle Elizabeth and that did not work.  I am betting Elizabeth put up a fight which is why she cut her throat and then stabbed her to make sure she was dead. The Monster would then have to get Elizabeth's 5'2" and 108lb limp body into the grave, and conceal her.  There is no way the Monster walked through the door of the house not covered in mud and blood and looking disheveled.  Did grandma Karen make her shower and wash her clothes before they left? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 10:46:43 AM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

Thanks. I got it through this link.  So there is Smooth Criminal and did you see that big grin she had from the noteriety?  And her father... can't believe he would even say what he did... didn't look good for his daughter to say that... did it?

Unfrigging believable. Can you imagine as a parent him standing there saying such a thing? We wondered where her parents were, here's your answer!!! Trisha huh??? LOL


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 10:48:58 AM
She's a real prize that one. She seems to be the kind of kid who was always a follower, riding someone elses coattails. Man is this gonna bite her in the bumper cause I'm willing to bet Alyssa wasn't exactly her bestie. The kids at school will probably be up her shirt over that interview cause even kids are APPALLED at this murder. And if my kid knew her that would be the END of that friendship pronto.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 10:49:01 AM
What happened when? Bustamante's timeline  Video

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx


That's a good timeline. So she kills Elizabeth BEFORE 7pm at least because the call to LE was around that time. It takes about 2-3 hours to get to St. Louis. So you have to figure the grandparents initially were home about 7pm. I'm thinking they put it all together what happened once they found out Elizabeth was missing. I'm willing to bet Alyssa was on pure adrenaline rush coming in and having just done what she's been talking about doing for a long time. I bet she was in a  full blown psychotic state. They loaded her up and took off. If they got to St. Louis say by 11pm and the time to check her into a hospital it would've been the wee morning hours of Thursday when the Grandparents got home. Maybe they even bunked down at a hotel instead of driving back. Regardless, they knew what she did.

Totally agree.  The Monster would have been full of adrenaline and glee from accomplishing something she had wanted to.  It had been raining, a lot.  She tried to strangle Elizabeth and that did not work.  I am betting Elizabeth put up a fight which is why she cut her throat and then stabbed her to make sure she was dead. The Monster would then have to get Elizabeth's 5'2" and 108lb limp body into the grave, and conceal her.  There is no way the Monster walked through the door of the house not covered in mud and blood and looking disheveled.  Did grandma Karen make her shower and wash her clothes before they left? 

I want to know more about Karen Brooke!! Do we have another Cindy Anthony on our hands. And was Gary there too. He hasn't shown his face. Is he another "Yes ma'm type of man??  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 10:50:04 AM
She's a real prize that one. She seems to be the kind of kid who was always a follower, riding someone elses coattails. Man is this gonna bite her in the bumper cause I'm willing to bet Alyssa wasn't exactly her bestie. The kids at school will probably be up her shirt over that interview cause even kids are APPALLED at this murder. And if my kid knew her that would be the END of that friendship pronto.
::MonkeyDevil:: ::MonkeyDevil::

"Bite her in the bumper!"  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 10:52:56 AM
Not guilty plea for 15-year-old in slaying
Video with locals reaction

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/15-year-old-girl-to-stand-trial-as-adult-in-murder-of-Missouri-girl-70370022.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 10:53:14 AM
What happened when? Bustamante's timeline  Video

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx


That's a good timeline. So she kills Elizabeth BEFORE 7pm at least because the call to LE was around that time. It takes about 2-3 hours to get to St. Louis. So you have to figure the grandparents initially were home about 7pm. I'm thinking they put it all together what happened once they found out Elizabeth was missing. I'm willing to bet Alyssa was on pure adrenaline rush coming in and having just done what she's been talking about doing for a long time. I bet she was in a  full blown psychotic state. They loaded her up and took off. If they got to St. Louis say by 11pm and the time to check her into a hospital it would've been the wee morning hours of Thursday when the Grandparents got home. Maybe they even bunked down at a hotel instead of driving back. Regardless, they knew what she did.

Totally agree.  The Monster would have been full of adrenaline and glee from accomplishing something she had wanted to.  It had been raining, a lot.  She tried to strangle Elizabeth and that did not work.  I am betting Elizabeth put up a fight which is why she cut her throat and then stabbed her to make sure she was dead. The Monster would then have to get Elizabeth's 5'2" and 108lb limp body into the grave, and conceal her.  There is no way the Monster walked through the door of the house not covered in mud and blood and looking disheveled.  Did grandma Karen make her shower and wash her clothes before they left? 


Oh yeah. You can bet your bananas and the tree they come from that Karen had her shower. I bet Karen was thinking OMG she finally did it and I have to get her out of here. So Kat and Ryan probably spent the night there thinking WTH is going on? I bet Kat figured it out and went through the monster's stuff and SHE was the one who turned it over to LE. I don't think little E*** knew anything cause it's doubtful she would've read the diary. But I bet Kat did.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Gizzie on November 19, 2009, 10:54:44 AM
What happened when? Bustamante's timeline  Video

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx


That's a good timeline. So she kills Elizabeth BEFORE 7pm at least because the call to LE was around that time. It takes about 2-3 hours to get to St. Louis. So you have to figure the grandparents initially were home about 7pm. I'm thinking they put it all together what happened once they found out Elizabeth was missing. I'm willing to bet Alyssa was on pure adrenaline rush coming in and having just done what she's been talking about doing for a long time. I bet she was in a  full blown psychotic state. They loaded her up and took off. If they got to St. Louis say by 11pm and the time to check her into a hospital it would've been the wee morning hours of Thursday when the Grandparents got home. Maybe they even bunked down at a hotel instead of driving back. Regardless, they knew what she did.

Totally agree.  The Monster would have been full of adrenaline and glee from accomplishing something she had wanted to.  It had been raining, a lot.  She tried to strangle Elizabeth and that did not work.  I am betting Elizabeth put up a fight which is why she cut her throat and then stabbed her to make sure she was dead. The Monster would then have to get Elizabeth's 5'2" and 108lb limp body into the grave, and conceal her.  There is no way the Monster walked through the door of the house not covered in mud and blood and looking disheveled.  Did grandma Karen make her shower and wash her clothes before they left? 


After reading this post, I just got shivers all over. It just really put things in perspective for me for some reason. Trying to put myself in Alyssa's shoes, I guess. I don't ever want to go there again!  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 10:55:09 AM
What happened when? Bustamante's timeline  Video

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx

I wonder why Matt Grant was the ONLY reporter on the scene when Elizabeth was reported missing?? Oh, it was just that OLTEN girl??  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 10:57:42 AM
She's a real prize that one. She seems to be the kind of kid who was always a follower, riding someone elses coattails. Man is this gonna bite her in the bumper cause I'm willing to bet Alyssa wasn't exactly her bestie. The kids at school will probably be up her shirt over that interview cause even kids are APPALLED at this murder. And if my kid knew her that would be the END of that friendship pronto.

My kids would be the same way,  they would call her a freakazoid and treat her like a bad case of wet rot crawling with dung beetles.  Daddy has money for the cell phone, piercings and unlimited texting and internet.  Maybe he needs to find out what spawn is doing before he gets some real surprises that gets him more interview time than what he envisioned.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:01:06 AM
i can not stand it when murdered individuals bodies are referred to as "it".

That "it" has a name. 

imo.

Me either. I try to always put a name with my post also, and not say her or she. I do make mistakes sometimes, but I think it only shows respect. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 11:04:42 AM
I wanted to bring this over from an earlier thread not only because I find the comments to be especially humorous, but to point out that wow!  she really does have a source of a source of a source and so on....

______________________________________________________________________________________________

MyView
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 131



   Re: Elizabeth Olten #2 10/29/09 -
« Reply #902 on: November 04, 2009, 02:23:53 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: no rose colored glasses on November 04, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
Quote from: Toler on November 04, 2009, 12:34:46 PM
New Diary Entry?? MO-Elizabeth Olten, 9, St. Martins Thread #7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a source I trust. My source has a source and this is how I came to receive this information.

Nothing is a 100 percent guarantee but I am going to put this out there for you to decide.

According to my source;

*The last entry in AB’s diary was: “I should have gone to church.”

*AB dug two graves the week before

*A silk scarf was used.

Let me stress again, this came from a source's source. The only time I will solidly confirm something is if I see it with my own eyes. In this case I felt good enough about my source to post it. We'll see if it turns out to be true.

Tricia
PS. Then again with how I get so far behind this might be old news.
Carry on.
__________________
From WS

Thank-you so now Tricia is posting something like this, wouldn't this be considered a rumor, and hence be put in the hidey hole rumor thread, though they don't have one on this case, Tricia you need a time out 

Pretty bad when an owner has to post rumors to keep her hits up over there.   
 
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 11:06:26 AM
Gizzie I am sorry.  I did not mean to get graphic just trying to go through events.  I first felt bad for Karen but not anymore.  She raised her daughter Michelle and ended up taking custody of 4 kids from two different baby daddies.  Then you have Kat who from her own writing clearly is pizzed they left CA and sacrificed for the grandkids to be there.  Grandma has been through trouble with her children, ongoing trouble proved by the last court case from this year that Michelle has.  No way she would not be seeing the signs or having a dejavu moment watching Alyssa act up for the last few years.  She is either in total denial or wants to not see it as she has the perfect Cindy Anthony family.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 11:09:39 AM
What grandmother would want to believe their grand daughter had done such a horrific thing.  Surely she was in denial.....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 11:12:32 AM
What grandmother would want to believe their grand daughter had done such a horrific thing.  Surely she was in denial.....



She was more than just in denial. She was buried upside down in the sand with her toes barely peeking out.

Jill, you must've missed it when Klaas was doing the whole a source is a source is a horse of course thing ( I think it was back in #2 thread.) but it was so funny I peed my panties a little.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 19, 2009, 11:13:44 AM
My fact vs rumor post from Nov 8 2009;(copied and pasted)
 Parts in Red turned out to be true
Been trying to put facts vs rumors on paper, thought I would share her so we can kinda have an idea where we are, and have all facts and rumors in one spot!!!


 FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS

October 21 2009 (Wednesday)
 
 9 yr old Elizabeth Olten disappears after playing at friend house, last contact was sometime after 6 pm.
  Elizabeth was a 4th grader at Pioneer Trails Elem in Jefferson Cty.
  Elizabeth was playing at a neighbors house, aprox 1/2 miles from her own home.
  In residence of that house a gma, gpa, 6 yr old female, 2 11 yr old males, and 15 yr old female
  LE called in around 7 pm.
  Search begins sometime pretty quick after 7 pm .
  AT&T traingulates cell phone that was in EO possesion
October 22, 2009 (Thurs)
  Search continues for Elizabeth,
  Wooded area and rainy weather make searching hard
  Hundreds of volunteers and other help in search(dogs, helicopters etc)
  Cell phone is dead, no more pings.
October 23, 2009 (Friday)
  Search contiunes
  At approx 3 pm. LE releases information
     EO's body has been found, well concealed,
     15 yr old juvenile has lead them to the body
        Body well concealed
        Cell located near the body
     Some sort of written evidence also aided in finding EO, as well as other evidence
     15 yr old juvenile is in custody
   
 Things were are pretty certain on.
The 15 yr old juvenile is a female named Alyssa Bustamante
Sophmore at JCHS
Half sister of Elizabeths play mate.
She is being raisied by maternal grand parents(step gdad) GLB AND KSB, due to father(CTB) being in prison and mother(MLB) criminal history and multiple arrest, form drug abuse.
Has aunt KNB who recently married RP, her long time boyfriend.

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS

 EO sent home by gpa of AB
 EO called mom and said she was on her way home
  (I also read Eo said "I am coming home something happened here")
 AB gpa told EO's mom "EO was sent home"
 EO's mom called EO and told her to "get home"

AB called EO to come back to the house, after EO headed home

 Murder is premediatated
  Grave dug October 16, 2009
  AB had told friends at school she "wanted to kill someone to see how it felt"
  You Tube Acct list hobbies as "killing and cutting"
COD
  Strangulation
    (with "silk scarf")
  Cutting and stabbing

Grave is behind
  Elizabeths house
  "Directly" behind AB house
     *(in press release from Sheriff White, he stated body was found near where they began   search")

Information from (someone) lead LE to AB. (written info)


A search warrant was served on the house of AB.
  Reportedly a traffic warrant
  Gparents cooperated with LE
  Gparents were uncooperative.
    *(actually it could go both ways, maybe one time they cooperated and another they did not)

 
Search warrant turns up some knd of journal/diary belonging to AB
   Says
      Should have gone to church
 
AB Wednesday
  Called EO back to house
  Took both young girls to woods, but sent half sister back
   Did not help with search for Eo, wanted to "take shower"




 AB thursday
  Skipped school
  Was at school
   *(again both could be true, she skipped part of day)
  Found on school grounds w/ boyfriend after itis noticed she skipped
    *( we do not know WHO discovered her skipping if this is true)
  LE didnt question her this night cause she was high?

 AB friday
   Talk to LE
    FBI


 Other AB RUMORS
   Was a thrill kill
    Just because kill
   Planned to kill specifically EO maybe mths in advance
   Had help
   Did it alone
   Very good student
    homocidal and suicidal indications, hospitalized for them
    turtured animals and siblings
    Did it  because of jealousy
      possibley over cell phone
      possible connection to crimes in both families

 EO strangled, throat slashed and stabbed
    knife used


Let's see how much of the rest turns out to be true???



Okay have added MORE red, and slashed thru a few that occording to todyas report are false
where did we hear that the Grandparents were uncooperative? Also, the picture of where Elizabeth was buried....where did that come from? What or who is the source of that picture? Thanks!!!!!!

IMHO it is pretty uncooperative to have a missing girl in the neighborhood, and take off with the POI to a pysch ward..INSTEAD of to the police. The LE coulda have found Elizabeth 10/21, had the grandparents NOT taken her to St Louis. This information is in the newspaper articles I posted above this original post last night.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Gizzie on November 19, 2009, 11:14:24 AM
Gizzie I am sorry.  I did not mean to get graphic just trying to go through events.  I first felt bad for Karen but not anymore.  She raised her daughter Michelle and ended up taking custody of 4 kids from two different baby daddies.  Then you have Kat who from her own writing clearly is pizzed they left CA and sacrificed for the grandkids to be there.  Grandma has been through trouble with her children, ongoing trouble proved by the last court case from this year that Michelle has.  No way she would not be seeing the signs or having a dejavu moment watching Alyssa act up for the last few years.  She is either in total denial or wants to not see it as she has the perfect Cindy Anthony family.

Oh no, Northern! You weren't too graphic for me! I was just imagining her coming in the house that night, and it made perfect sense that that is how she felt. It is what it is. It just creeps me out that this is probably how it really happened, and we aren't really speculating anymore at this point. She probably was "high" from the kill, and I agree, the grandparents  knew exactly what just happened, and high tailed it out of there! Poor, poor Elizabeth!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I can handle graphic, and thank you!  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 11:17:55 AM
What grandmother would want to believe their grand daughter had done such a horrific thing.  Surely she was in denial.....



She was more than just in denial. She was buried upside down in the sand with her toes barely peeking out.

Jill, you must've missed it when Klaas was doing the whole a source is a source is a horse of course thing ( I think it was back in #2 thread.) but it was so funny I peed my panties a little.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

pretty darn funny.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:19:04 AM
Gizzie I am sorry.  I did not mean to get graphic just trying to go through events.  I first felt bad for Karen but not anymore.  She raised her daughter Michelle and ended up taking custody of 4 kids from two different baby daddies.  Then you have Kat who from her own writing clearly is pizzed they left CA and sacrificed for the grandkids to be there.  Grandma has been through trouble with her children, ongoing trouble proved by the last court case from this year that Michelle has.  No way she would not be seeing the signs or having a dejavu moment watching Alyssa act up for the last few years.  She is either in total denial or wants to not see it as she has the perfect Cindy Anthony family.

NORTHERN, there was nothing wrong with your post. I think you stated exactly what happened, and there is no need to "pretty" it up. I am sure Elizabeth's death was not pleasant, and far worse happened to her that what we even know. Elizabeth had to be screaming, or trying to, and fighting for her life. She was for sure terrified, and no telling how long it really took her to die. I only hope it was quickly and right away, and she didn't live there for any length of time alive in that grave. We don't even know her time of death, and it haunts me that she could have still been there when the sheriff called off the search for the night.JMO  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Meanwhile, Alyssa is whisk off to the warmth of a hospital bed by her enablers. Elizabeth may have been saved if they had not. JMO  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 11:22:40 AM
Meanwhile, Alyssa is whisk off to the warmth of a hospital bed by her enablers. Elizabeth may have been saved if they had not. JMO 

OMG... This is not something I had thought of.... I pray this isn't what happened.  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 19, 2009, 11:24:08 AM
Here is a link to a interview with Alyssa's self proclaimed Best friend Aka Smooth Criminal via myspace


http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001



Her dad says in the interview she new Alyssa wanted to kill ! Just didn't think she would go through with it  ::MonkeyShocked::


filth flarn and filth..I missed it, says it has been removed or deleted...ughhhhhhh DID is say if DAD is watching her Myspace??? and GETTING her help..?????


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Gizzie on November 19, 2009, 11:26:37 AM
Gizzie I am sorry.  I did not mean to get graphic just trying to go through events.  I first felt bad for Karen but not anymore.  She raised her daughter Michelle and ended up taking custody of 4 kids from two different baby daddies.  Then you have Kat who from her own writing clearly is pizzed they left CA and sacrificed for the grandkids to be there.  Grandma has been through trouble with her children, ongoing trouble proved by the last court case from this year that Michelle has.  No way she would not be seeing the signs or having a dejavu moment watching Alyssa act up for the last few years.  She is either in total denial or wants to not see it as she has the perfect Cindy Anthony family.

NORTHERN, there was nothing wrong with your post. I think you stated exactly what happened, and there is no need to "pretty" it up. I am sure Elizabeth's death was not pleasant, and far worse happened to her that what we even know. Elizabeth had to be screaming, or trying to, and fighting for her life. She was for sure terrified, and no telling how long it really took her to die. I only hope it was quickly and right away, and she didn't live there for any length of time alive in that grave. We don't even know her time of death, and it haunts me that she could have still been there when the sheriff called off the search for the night.JMO  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Meanwhile, Alyssa is whisk off to the warmth of a hospital bed by her enablers. Elizabeth may have been saved if they had not. JMO  ::MonkeyMad::


I didn't think there was anything wrong with her post, either. Was just stating that it put it in perspective for me. And that's the worst part of it, for me. Because it's what happened, and Elizabeth is dead because of it. I'm sure it wasn't pleasant for her. I'm sure it took awhile before she died too. I can only hope that it was a quick death & that she didn't suffer for long.

That's all. Wasn't asking for Northern to sugarcoat anything, promise.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 11:27:34 AM
it's one thing that Alyssa was whisked away to a mental hospital - but I have another question:

How come LE didn't notice that someone in the house that the missing 9 year old was last seen at was whisked away to a mental hospital?

And if LE was not aware of the exact location that Alyssa had been taken to, wouldn't LE notice that Alyssa and whoever whisked her away where not there?  Wouldn't they want to interview them or wouldn't they question that?

Does not make sense.  Period.  None of it.

And yes, I have always wondered if Elizabeth had gotten help sooner if she could have survived the attack.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 11:29:44 AM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

Txsflame - try this link for the video


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 11:29:53 AM
Here is a link to a interview with Alyssa's self proclaimed Best friend Aka Smooth Criminal via myspace


http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001



Her dad says in the interview she new Alyssa wanted to kill ! Just didn't think she would go through with it  ::MonkeyShocked::


filth flarn and filth..I missed it, says it has been removed or deleted...ughhhhhhh DID is say if DAD is watching her Myspace??? and GETTING her help..?????



Try this link--- http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001
 (http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:32:23 AM
While I am on my soap box, I will say one more thing.   (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/soapbox.gif)

The attitude of the Sheriff and the turning away of searchers on Thursday says to me he knew that Elizabeth was in that patch of woods. Yet on FRIDAY at his press conference, before they arrested Alyssa that night, he said that Elizabeth probably wasn't in the area anymore. He seemed very self-confident with his statement.

His demeanor certainly changed by that night. And no, this isn't hind site is 20/20. I felt his heart was not in this whole search thing from the beginning and I know many of us here on SM and also the locals were saying WTF was he doing, and why?

For the reasons that I stated in my last post, there should have been a full out search of those woods if they had to go over them 200 times until they found her. They obviously did not use the right resources, as you can see from that picture in the woods, the grave was not all that concealed. It was only in a small ravine, most likely covered with a little water. Search dogs can smell through water. I guess someone was cold and didn't want to get their feet wet. JMO

And I am off my rant for now.  ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 11:33:53 AM
Make room on that box for me please-couldn't have said it better.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:35:50 AM

I didn't think there was anything wrong with her post, either. Was just stating that it put it in perspective for me. And that's the worst part of it, for me. Because it's what happened, and Elizabeth is dead because of it. I'm sure it wasn't pleasant for her. I'm sure it took awhile before she died too. I can only hope that it was a quick death & that she didn't suffer for long.

That's all. Wasn't asking for Northern to sugarcoat anything, promise.

It's ok GIZZY. I understand.  ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: FBIwannabe on November 19, 2009, 11:36:42 AM

Jill, you must've missed it when Klaas was doing the whole a source is a source is a horse of course thing ( I think it was back in #2 thread.) but it was so funny I peed my panties a little.
[/quote]

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Imagine me sitting here staring at the screen and speed reading intently because I need to be working, but I have to keep up with this.  Then, I come across this line.  Ha ha ha.  Too funny.

Just thinking about the news about the psych hospital...maybe the GPs thought she had tried to kill herself again?  She could have cut herself,too.  I doubt it, but I just don't want to believe someone would try to cover this up.  Ugh.  Also, maybe LE didn't just turn their heads and let them go.  Maybe they were looking for them because they thought it was odd that they were MIA, but they couldn't find them.  I can't imagine what kinds of crazy and abnormal things went on in that house during a regular day.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:37:42 AM
TXFLAME, I do think she tortured her siblings, as seen on the YOUTUBES.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 11:37:44 AM
it's one thing that Alyssa was whisked away to a mental hospital - but I have another question:

How come LE didn't notice that someone in the house that the missing 9 year old was last seen at was whisked away to a mental hospital?

And if LE was not aware of the exact location that Alyssa had been taken to, wouldn't LE notice that Alyssa and whoever whisked her away where not there?  Wouldn't they want to interview them or wouldn't they question that?

Does not make sense.  Period.  None of it.

And yes, I have always wondered if Elizabeth had gotten help sooner if she could have survived the attack.


My first thought was, ok, there is a child missing.  The LAST KNOWN people to see her are able to skip town for at least several hours and HELLO, no one notices?  I would be suprised if they were allowed to run to town to get a soda, LET ALONE take of to STL.  My goodniess.  I too wondered how long Elizabeth survived in the grave, in pain, no way to move, cold, no way to talk.  I hope that she knew God and was able to pray.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 11:37:44 AM
Fanny, I do not think that Sheriff White had a CLUE where Elizabeth was.

BUT, I do believe that Sheriff White was well aware that he had problems in his jurisdiction that were routinely shoveled under the carpet - and that this situation could very well blow the lid off of all of it.

Hence, he chose to close this investigation up tighter than a drum to where only the State Highway Patrol was lead next to him.

He did NOT comb those woods as if he knew she could be there - if he knew she could be there, he would've had men out there 24/7 til she was found, instead of checking the area a couple of times.

Sorry, but this is my opinion.  The man is an elected official with no real law enforcement experience, sitting on a hornet's nest of cover-ups.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: FBIwannabe on November 19, 2009, 11:37:59 AM
...and I messed up the quote.  :)  Newbie mistake, but you get the idea!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 11:40:05 AM


BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 19, 2009, 11:43:45 AM
Hi monkeys and Good Morning!

I had never considered the possibility that Elizabeth could have been saved after the attack. Oh, God! I hope she went quickly.........   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 11:53:28 AM

 
Quote

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Imagine me sitting here staring at the screen and speed reading intently because I need to be working, but I have to keep up with this.  Then, I come across this line.  Ha ha ha.  Too funny.

Just thinking about the news about the psych hospital...maybe the GPs thought she had tried to kill herself again?  She could have cut herself,too.  I doubt it, but I just don't want to believe someone would try to cover this up.  Ugh.  Also, maybe LE didn't just turn their heads and let them go.  Maybe they were looking for them because they thought it was odd that they were MIA, but they couldn't find them.  I can't imagine what kinds of crazy and abnormal things went on in that house during a regular day.   

You bring up a good point.  Grandma may have seen blood on the Monster and thought she tried suicide again.  At that point no one other than the Monster knew Elizabeth was missing.  You would think that grandma would be checking for wounds to see where the blood was coming from and how serious it was. She would have taken her to medical facility for care had she found wounds.  When she found none how did Grandma rationalize where the blood came from? Did she go out and check if the horses were all alive?  How about the kittens that the Monster tweeted about?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 11:54:13 AM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 19, 2009, 11:56:12 AM
IMHO (and is probably due to my nature to trust LE as the good guys) I believe Sheriff White knew what was up also, but wanted to protect the case.  I saw the press release when they announced they had found Elizabeth, and IMHO (and I know many disagree) But what I saw was a very sad man, he seemed distraught, but I also felt he cared about Elizabeth, and the whole thing was beyond understanding. I honestly thought he was on the verge of tears..(IMHO)

 I can not imagine being the one to interview a 15 yr old, who sad "I did it to see how it felt" and then be led to a body , then have to get on tv minutes later and tell the world all of this. Also on this timeline, also have to break the news to Patty and family.


 I guess what I am saying, is I THINK from what I have seen LE did the best they could. Yes they may have missed some steps, but are human working a hard hard case. There are too many laws to protect the criminals, and LE are hampered by this. With Alyssa being a juvenile, LE could not touch her withhout a guardian, if the guardian is NOT cooperating(which apparently they were not) they had to walk a line in this invetigation. I also feel White had to be careful what was said and done to "catch a killer".  We have NO way of knowing how long it took LE to contact the Brookes family, and LE may have been afraid they completely took off. They did have contacts through out several states etc, and it would even appear they had money or resources to go out of country if need be. As always just my thoughts and opinions!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:06:35 PM
Fanny, I do not think that Sheriff White had a CLUE where Elizabeth was.

BUT, I do believe that Sheriff White was well aware that he had problems in his jurisdiction that were routinely shoveled under the carpet - and that this situation could very well blow the lid off of all of it.

Hence, he chose to close this investigation up tighter than a drum to where only the State Highway Patrol was lead next to him.

He did NOT comb those woods as if he knew she could be there - if he knew she could be there, he would've had men out there 24/7 til she was found, instead of checking the area a couple of times.

Sorry, but this is my opinion.  The man is an elected official with no real law enforcement experience, sitting on a hornet's nest of cover-ups.

We usually are on the same page, but I have to disagree about Sheriff White. He was not inexperienced as he had run for sheriff in 2004 and was appointed in 2005 when the previous sheriff committed suicide after being in office for only two weeks. I look up the crime stats for Cole County a bit back, and he was a very busy man. Before that he had been a school resource officer for 13 yrs. I think this is a man that knows kids.

When the people were not home in the house where she was last seen should have put up red flags all over the place. I don't think the whole family piled in the car to take Alyssa to St Louis. Someone must have been there and said something.

He said on Thursday he didn't need so many searchers. Why? Because the were focused on a small area, otherwise they would have used them all every place they could search. I don't think the State Police (I hate it when the media refers to them as the Highway Patrol..it makes it seem like a traffic officer is handling the case.) took over the case until they got the info about the written stuff. But that is just my opinion.

And if Sheriff White folded because thing usually get swept under the rug, well shame on him! I think he will be going down with the proverbial ship. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:12:03 PM
Did anyone else know that Sheriff White is a Southern Baptist preacher?

http://www.wordandway.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=231&Itemid=95


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 12:13:56 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 19, 2009, 12:24:53 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:25:25 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:27:35 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   ::MonkeyDance::

 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME chrissy07   ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 12:28:30 PM


My kids would be the same way,  they would call her a freakazoid and treat her like a bad case of wet rot crawling with dung beetles.  Daddy has money for the cell phone, piercings and unlimited texting and internet.  Maybe he needs to find out what spawn is doing before he gets some real surprises that gets him more interview time than what he envisioned.

they would call her a freakazoid and treat her like a bad case of wet rot crawling with dung beetles. ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::   NR please do not hold back...tell us what your rally think!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:28:54 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Anyone can start a thread.  I am not sure which thread you would start it in though.  If a Mod does a drive by I am sure they will help you.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:29:53 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Anyone can start a thread. Just go to the place you want to start it, and there is a tab at the top to start a thread. I'm not exactly sure what to put it under though. Maybe someone else could tell you that.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:30:49 PM


My kids would be the same way,  they would call her a freakazoid and treat her like a bad case of wet rot crawling with dung beetles.  Daddy has money for the cell phone, piercings and unlimited texting and internet.  Maybe he needs to find out what spawn is doing before he gets some real surprises that gets him more interview time than what he envisioned.

they would call her a freakazoid and treat her like a bad case of wet rot crawling with dung beetles. ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::   NR please do not hold back...tell us what your rally think!!!

I would get the big red button if I said what I really think.   ::MonkeyRoll::  My daughter would use the word freakazoid though.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:31:21 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE



I liked the Cole County Jail better myself.  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Anyone can start a thread. Just go to the place you want to start it, and there is a tab at the top to start a thread. I'm not exactly sure what to put it under though. Maybe someone else could tell you that.

Jinx   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 12:32:19 PM
Fanny, I do not think that Sheriff White had a CLUE where Elizabeth was.

BUT, I do believe that Sheriff White was well aware that he had problems in his jurisdiction that were routinely shoveled under the carpet - and that this situation could very well blow the lid off of all of it.

Hence, he chose to close this investigation up tighter than a drum to where only the State Highway Patrol was lead next to him.

He did NOT comb those woods as if he knew she could be there - if he knew she could be there, he would've had men out there 24/7 til she was found, instead of checking the area a couple of times.

Sorry, but this is my opinion.  The man is an elected official with no real law enforcement experience, sitting on a hornet's nest of cover-ups.

We usually are on the same page, but I have to disagree about Sheriff White. He was not inexperienced as he had run for sheriff in 2004 and was appointed in 2005 when the previous sheriff committed suicide after being in office for only two weeks. I look up the crime stats for Cole County a bit back, and he was a very busy man. Before that he had been a school resource officer for 13 yrs. I think this is a man that knows kids.

When the people were not home in the house where she was last seen should have put up red flags all over the place. I don't think the whole family piled in the car to take Alyssa to St Louis. Someone must have been there and said something.

He said on Thursday he didn't need so many searchers. Why? Because the were focused on a small area, otherwise they would have used them all every place they could search. I don't think the State Police (I hate it when the media refers to them as the Highway Patrol..it makes it seem like a traffic officer is handling the case.) took over the case until they got the info about the written stuff. But that is just my opinion.

And if Sheriff White folded because thing usually get swept under the rug, well shame on him! I think he will be going down with the proverbial ship. JMO


If I am incorrect re: the reason for his choices, I will apologize immediately as I am ALWAYS on the side of law enforcement and have much respect.

But things are not adding up to me.

Yes, Alyssa is a minor and yes, she was immediately taken to a hospital which could have very well limited LE's access to her.

BUT - White made conflicting statements during those 3 days - and the reports I heard as to where the searches were taking place indicate to me that finding her on Oct. 23 - the location seemed to be a big surprise to him.

Now, I've seen other smallish LE agencies handle missing/murdered investigations - but never seen them make sweeping statements to media such as: at this time we have no reason to believe she's been abducted, at this time we have no reason to believe that foul play is involved, at this time we believe she may be out of the state - but we are not issuing an Amber because we don't know if she's been abducted.

My thoughts then were:  hello!  She's 9!  She didn't go on a cruise!

He was offered the services of the FBI, but as far as I know FBI didn't interview the family, Alyssa's.  Maybe if the FBI did interview the family they would have noticed a couple of people not in attendance.

I'm just sayin.  Yes, he'd been sheriff for 4 years - but how many missing people investigations had he led?  And as far as what the JeffCity locals have been posting - that there is stuff going on that is not publicized - not even for the protection of the public.

So many of the JeffCity folks truly believe that this situation will be glossed over - that the full truth will never be known.

I just hope to God that she was not buried alive, that she did not lay there suffering hearing people call her name....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:33:22 PM
WELCOME CHRISSYO7!   ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 19, 2009, 12:34:08 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Sorry, I was out for a bit.  You can start a thread on your own in the Missing Persons area.  I'm sure there are many members here that would like to see what they can do for your friend.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:35:05 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Anyone can start a thread. Just go to the place you want to start it, and there is a tab at the top to start a thread. I'm not exactly sure what to put it under though. Maybe someone else could tell you that.

Jinx   ::MonkeyAngel::
::MonkeyTease::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 12:35:54 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   ::MonkeyDance::

You friend must have been shocked when word started getting out.  If Karen took Alyssa to the mental hospital on Wednesday night, who was looking after the kids in the daycare on Thursday? Kat has been working towards being a hairdresser and Gary worked out of town most weeks.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 12:38:28 PM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:39:31 PM
Fanny, I do not think that Sheriff White had a CLUE where Elizabeth was.

BUT, I do believe that Sheriff White was well aware that he had problems in his jurisdiction that were routinely shoveled under the carpet - and that this situation could very well blow the lid off of all of it.

Hence, he chose to close this investigation up tighter than a drum to where only the State Highway Patrol was lead next to him.

He did NOT comb those woods as if he knew she could be there - if he knew she could be there, he would've had men out there 24/7 til she was found, instead of checking the area a couple of times.

Sorry, but this is my opinion.  The man is an elected official with no real law enforcement experience, sitting on a hornet's nest of cover-ups.

We usually are on the same page, but I have to disagree about Sheriff White. He was not inexperienced as he had run for sheriff in 2004 and was appointed in 2005 when the previous sheriff committed suicide after being in office for only two weeks. I look up the crime stats for Cole County a bit back, and he was a very busy man. Before that he had been a school resource officer for 13 yrs. I think this is a man that knows kids.

When the people were not home in the house where she was last seen should have put up red flags all over the place. I don't think the whole family piled in the car to take Alyssa to St Louis. Someone must have been there and said something.

He said on Thursday he didn't need so many searchers. Why? Because the were focused on a small area, otherwise they would have used them all every place they could search. I don't think the State Police (I hate it when the media refers to them as the Highway Patrol..it makes it seem like a traffic officer is handling the case.) took over the case until they got the info about the written stuff. But that is just my opinion.

And if Sheriff White folded because thing usually get swept under the rug, well shame on him! I think he will be going down with the proverbial ship. JMO


If I am incorrect re: the reason for his choices, I will apologize immediately as I am ALWAYS on the side of law enforcement and have much respect.

But things are not adding up to me.

Yes, Alyssa is a minor and yes, she was immediately taken to a hospital which could have very well limited LE's access to her.

BUT - White made conflicting statements during those 3 days - and the reports I heard as to where the searches were taking place indicate to me that finding her on Oct. 23 - the location seemed to be a big surprise to him.

Now, I've seen other smallish LE agencies handle missing/murdered investigations - but never seen them make sweeping statements to media such as: at this time we have no reason to believe she's been abducted, at this time we have no reason to believe that foul play is involved, at this time we believe she may be out of the state - but we are not issuing an Amber because we don't know if she's been abducted.

My thoughts then were:  hello!  She's 9!  She didn't go on a cruise!

He was offered the services of the FBI, but as far as I know FBI didn't interview the family, Alyssa's.  Maybe if the FBI did interview the family they would have noticed a couple of people not in attendance.

I'm just sayin.  Yes, he'd been sheriff for 4 years - but how many missing people investigations had he led?  And as far as what the JeffCity locals have been posting - that there is stuff going on that is not publicized - not even for the protection of the public.

So many of the JeffCity folks truly believe that this situation will be glossed over - that the full truth will never be known.

I just hope to God that she was not buried alive, that she did not lay there suffering hearing people call her name....

I am generally on LE's side too, since I worked at one time for LE. But I have also seen, the good, the bad and the ugly. This investigation falls within the last two as far as I am concerned, and for some of the very reasons you posted.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 12:40:57 PM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Yes he did, but it could have been because she was not/could not take any more children because of the ratio for caretakers to children. Just a guess on my part.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: theboyzmom on November 19, 2009, 12:46:43 PM
Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 12:51:58 PM
Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.

There is a lot of truth in what you say.....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 19, 2009, 12:54:17 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   ::MonkeyDance::

You friend must have been shocked when word started getting out.  If Karen took Alyssa to the mental hospital on Wednesday night, who was looking after the kids in the daycare on Thursday? Kat has been working towards being a hairdresser and Gary worked out of town most weeks.
[/quote

I may have misunderstood, maybe they had closed that Thursday, but regardless, she hadn't closed prior to the events.  And from what I understand, she started watching kids again, but only has 1 to watch.  My friend has found another daycare.  It's a small small world, never know about anyone.   ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 12:54:56 PM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Yes he did, but it could have been because she was not/could not take any more children because of the ratio for caretakers to children. Just a guess on my part.


Okay-that makes sense now. My head hurts lol. Cindy Anthony has changed my WHOLE perspective on what lengths people will go to when they don't, can't, won't or flat out refuse to see the truth. Thanks again everybody for answering about starting a thread. I posted it under unsolved crimes. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6543.0 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6543.0)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 12:56:11 PM
Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.

very good thoughts - you make a lot of sense.

With all of the problems they had with her, maybe by habit they just called her therapist.

I'd like to add to what I wrote above re: the investigation.

What I do not know and have no experience with is how FBI becomes lead on a case.  If they become lead - or become co-lead when the sheriff decides that a federal law may have been broken or a child is in extreme danger?  If so, and White did not make that call, I have to wonder why.

It could be that FBI agreed with White's feelings about the investigation and took the step back to let him determine before they became fully involved.

This investigation was closely guarded so a lot of how I feel is speculation.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 12:59:00 PM
This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   ::MonkeyDance::

You friend must have been shocked when word started getting out.  If Karen took Alyssa to the mental hospital on Wednesday night, who was looking after the kids in the daycare on Thursday? Kat has been working towards being a hairdresser and Gary worked out of town most weeks.
[/quote

I may have misunderstood, maybe they had closed that Thursday, but regardless, she hadn't closed prior to the events.  And from what I understand, she started watching kids again, but only has 1 to watch.  My friend has found another daycare.  It's a small small world, never know about anyone.   ::MonkeyEek::



Bolded by me.  SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!!!!!!! Karen opened her daycare back up? I'm glad your friend found another daycare. Now I'm not saying Karen isn't qualified to look after kids however with all the anger out there over this I just don't see how anyone would feel that their child would be safe there.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klh21 on November 19, 2009, 01:00:44 PM
I barely get enough time to keep up with all these cases, much less post... but I am very relieved with the decision made yesterday. Lets pray that she gets the maximum sentence (of course, many of us wish for a far harsher punishment than life in prison without parole...but i wont go there).

With this new stuff coming out that gma took alyssa to a mental hospital in st. louis the night that Elizabeth went missing after leaving HER house really bothers me. The main reason being the fact that LE stated they did not suspect foul play in the disappearence and so on. Did they not go to the last place Elizabeth was seen and interview everyone living there? If so, wouldn't it have been very obvious that foul play should be suspected when Alyssa was no longer there and her gma had taken her to a mental hosp.? I mean that would seem fishy to me! and if they didn't go to the house and see who was there or interview anyone then i do blame them for making Elizabeth's family suffer for a longer period. That is the obvious thing to do when someone goes missing. You always check out the place they were last seen and the people who they were last seen with.

Lastly, I too have pondered the fact that maybe Elizabeth could have been saved. What if she was there suffering for a period of time? Maybe even while people were searching for her?? I've thought about this a lot and I sincerely believe that alyssa went there that day to do this terrible crime. So i do not think she held back in executing what she obviously had been planning on doing. I believe that she most definitely made sure that Elizabeth was dead. I'd bet she was dead when she pushed her in the grave. She didnt want to see what it felt like to bury someone alive...she wanted to see what it felt like to KILL someone.

Well i also hope that poor Elizabeth didn't suffer much and am glad to know she is in the hands of the Lord now. May you rest in peace Elizabeth. Prayers go out to everyone involved.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 19, 2009, 01:07:56 PM
Off to work on other endeavors. You all are the geatest. JUSTICE FOR ELIZABETH!!! ((((((HUGS))))))))


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 01:11:13 PM
 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME klh21    ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:15:04 PM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Yes he did, but it could have been because she was not/could not take any more children because of the ratio for caretakers to children. Just a guess on my part.


Okay-that makes sense now. My head hurts lol. Cindy Anthony has changed my WHOLE perspective on what lengths people will go to when they don't, can't, won't or flat out refuse to see the truth. Thanks again everybody for answering about starting a thread. I posted it under unsolved crimes. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6543.0 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6543.0)

I will go read... ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 01:22:15 PM
Audio link of interview with highschool kids also on this page

JEFFERSON CITY, MO (KBIA) - Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante showed no emotion when Cole County Judge Jon Beetem made his ruling Wednesday. According to court documents, Bustamante is accused of killing Olten by stabbing, strangling, and cutting her throat. Maggie Fowler attended the same high school as Bustamante:

"Are you shocked that someone you went to school with is allegedly capable..."
"Yes, yes! I never thought about it in Missouri...Jefferson City...St. Martins, really, yeah."

A State Trooper testified that Bustamante killed Olton because, quote, "she wanted to know what it felt like." Members of Olten's family quietly wept throughout the proceedings.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kbia/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1580008/KBIA.Local/Bustamante.Tried.as.Adult.in.Murder.of.Nine-Year-Old


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 01:25:01 PM
Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.

I am glad that you said all that in a way everyone could understand.  I tried to say that earlier but you did a much better job of making it comprehendible.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 01:32:37 PM
i can not stand it when murdered individuals bodies are referred to as "it".

That "it" has a name. 

imo.
I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with you.  Drives me freaking bananas!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 01:35:01 PM
Here is a link to a interview with Alyssa's self proclaimed Best friend Aka Smooth Criminal via myspace


http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001



Her dad says in the interview she new Alyssa wanted to kill ! Just didn't think she would go through with it  ::MonkeyShocked::
Shoot!  I can't see it.  It says it's been moved.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:35:56 PM
WELCOME KLH21!!    ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyGavel::

Great first post! ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 01:38:03 PM
Patrica "charlie" "trish" Rhodes aka SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal and Papa Darryl Rhodes have been added to the KOMU video.  They start about 1/2 way. 

Smooth Criminal moved to MO last year
First person she met was Alyssa
Met her at Simonsen 9th Grade Centre
"she was a really good person, one of the nicest people I know"   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:40:23 PM
Here is a link to a interview with Alyssa's self proclaimed Best friend Aka Smooth Criminal via myspace


http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001



Her dad says in the interview she new Alyssa wanted to kill ! Just didn't think she would go through with it  ::MonkeyShocked::
Shoot!  I can't see it.  It says it's been moved.

I think there is a link posted later that works.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:41:38 PM
Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.

I am glad that you said all that in a way everyone could understand.  I tried to say that earlier but you did a much better job of making it comprehendible.   

I think they were totally into excusing her and enabling her, and this was not the first time. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 19, 2009, 01:42:30 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 01:42:40 PM
Patrica "charlie" "trish" Rhodes aka SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal and Papa Darryl Rhodes have been added to the KOMU video.  They start about 1/2 way. 

Smooth Criminal moved to MO last year
First person she met was Alyssa
Met her at Simonsen 9th Grade Centre
"she was a really good person, one of the nicest people I know"   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814





I would hate to think what Trish would consider a bad person. ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:43:16 PM
Patrica "charlie" "trish" Rhodes aka SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal and Papa Darryl Rhodes have been added to the KOMU video.  They start about 1/2 way. 

Smooth Criminal moved to MO last year
First person she met was Alyssa
Met her at Simonsen 9th Grade Centre
"she was a really good person, one of the nicest people I know"   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

It was obvious from her MYSPACE she was totally into getting noticed, and she made sure she did. Be careful what you wish for "Trisha" and Dad. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:44:10 PM
Patrica "charlie" "trish" Rhodes aka SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal and Papa Darryl Rhodes have been added to the KOMU video.  They start about 1/2 way. 

Smooth Criminal moved to MO last year
First person she met was Alyssa
Met her at Simonsen 9th Grade Centre
"she was a really good person, one of the nicest people I know"   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814





I would hate to think what Trish would consider a bad person. ::MonkeyMad::

I would hate to think what her father would consider a bad person.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 01:44:16 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?


I don't. It is very difficult to dismember a body. And very, very messy.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:47:20 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?

I have tried to keep my mind from going there, but I am wondering if Alyssa didn't cut off some part of Elizabeth and put it in the other grave....I can see no reason for him to say that if there wasn't something to it. A simple "no she was buried in one grave" would have been sufficient. jMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from Friend:
"One night, I was staying at her house and she came out and she said she liked the feeling of blood on her hands when she cut her wrists because she said it made her feel better,"


Link to page quote was found

http://www.abc17news.com/news/story.php?id=15503


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 19, 2009, 01:50:46 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?

I have tried to keep my mind from going there, but I am wondering if Alyssa didn't cut off some part of Elizabeth and put it in the other grave....I can see no reason for him to say that if there wasn't something to it. A simple "no she was buried in one grave" would have been sufficient. jMO



I think that the journalist that wrote or said that just misspoke. There seems to be a lot of that in the news articles online.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:51:20 PM
Sorry, I know I have freaked some of you by a couple of my posts. I am hoping to be wrong on them, but I think we better steel ourselves for what is going to come out. I don't think it is going to be something we have prepared ourselves for. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from Friend:
"One night, I was staying at her house and she came out and she said she liked the feeling of blood on her hands when she cut her wrists because she said it made her feel better,"


Link to page quote was found

http://www.abc17news.com/news/story.php?id=15503

My virus scanner doesn't like that site. I'll take your word for it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 01:54:06 PM
Who is Alyssa Bustamante?

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx?id=379234


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 01:54:51 PM
The reporter said in the video posted above that Elizabeth was "stabbed repeatedly".   ::MonkeyNoNo::  Overkill much, monster?  Either that or she had like a flip-flarrin' steak knife that wasn't very sharp to do the stabbing.  She had to have been bloody as hell when she came home.

I think her g'parents knew she was involved and while I can try to understand how they wanted to protect her, it's not something I would have done.  No way would I let a grieving mother to suffer for days waiting for her baby to be found if I thought someone I knew had done it/had something to do with it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 19, 2009, 01:55:16 PM
I'm with you Fanny Mae, I think that when the details come out, we will be shocked, more than anyone can believe, and at this point, with each little detail that comes out, leads to yet another startling truth.  We may look too far into somethings, such as the comment "Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes." but then you put other comments with that and things start to paint a very ugly picture.   ::MonkeyNoNo::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 01:57:55 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?


I don't. It is very difficult to dismember a body. And very, very messy.

Unless she had a really long extension cord and a Sawzall, I would have to agree.  UNLESS, she dismembered at the house somewhere, then carried the peices a few at a time, which I would find hard to believe. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 01:58:50 PM
Sorry, I know I have freaked some of you by a couple of my posts. I am hoping to be wrong on them, but I think we better steel ourselves for what is going to come out. I don't think it is going to be something we have prepared ourselves for. JMO

I have the same feeling Fanny.  IMO After she killed Elizabeth she did not just push Elizabeth into the grave and bury Elizabeth, there may have been other things she wanted to see "what it felt like".   ::MonkeyTears::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 02:02:14 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?


I don't. It is very difficult to dismember a body. And very, very messy.

Unless she had a really long extension cord and a Sawzall, I would have to agree.  UNLESS, she dismembered at the house somewhere, then carried the peices a few at a time, which I would find hard to believe. 

I have to wonder if her fencing training will come into play.

We as a family practice karate, and we own several swords that are very sharp. 

I'm not sure how sharp a fencing sword is, and of course we do not know at the time what weapon she used.

But White was pretty darn shaken when he made the annoucement just after viewing Elizabeth's remains.

I hate to think of this baby in this way, but I'm comforted knowing that she is now in a safe place and in loving arms.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
I don't think it is going to be something we have prepared ourselves for. JMO

We have covered dismemberment, sexual mutilation, and post mortem mutilation.  That would pretty much cover it all I would think.  Anything she could have done to her that would be considered "shocking" would fall into those catergories......


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 02:04:19 PM
and have to add:  after Jessica, and Shasta and Dylan, and more since - nothing will surprise me.  Break my heart, though.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 02:09:13 PM
I'm looking through myspaces.

does anyone have the "purported" initials of Alyssa's "purported" boyrfirned?

I've seen a couple posts that have RP (turn out to be her new uncle), BN...but haven't seen anything that says fact...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 02:17:23 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?

hi chrissy...I was writing about my husband's trip to Jeff City.....that is all he told me. I asked him if asked any questions (knowing I would want to know ::MonkeyWink::) and of course he didn't. He did say that all the talk is very hush hush and he got the uneasy feeling that others in the room knew more than they were telling.  JMO but I wondered if there might be mutilation...but that's just me wondering....nothing to base it on.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 02:17:48 PM
I don't know the initials of the bf but have been very curious about that. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 02:18:12 PM
and have to add:  after Jessica, and Shasta and Dylan, and more since - nothing will surprise me.  Break my heart, though.

Somer, Caylee, Nevaeh, Sandra, Robert, Shaniya, Tori, Jada, Alex......and all heart breaking.  ::MonkeyTears::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 02:21:15 PM
I don't think it is going to be something we have prepared ourselves for. JMO

We have covered dismemberment, sexual mutilation, and post mortem mutilation.  That would pretty much cover it all I would think.  Anything she could have done to her that would be considered "shocking" would fall into those catergories......

Those are words, until you see and hear for yourself the true descriptions and horrors. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 19, 2009, 02:21:47 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?

hi chrissy...I was writing about my husband's trip to Jeff City.....that is all he told me. I asked him if asked any questions (knowing I would want to know ::MonkeyWink::) and of course he didn't. He did say that all the talk is very hush hush and he got the uneasy feeling that others in the room knew more than they were telling.  JMO but I wondered if there might be mutilation...but that's just me wondering....nothing to base it on.

I agree with you, I am speculating, considering what your husband had said along with the prosectors statement, trying to make a connection.  I personally think that your husbands uneasy feeling is probably right on, this whole case things have been very fishy.  Just like when Elizabeth first went missing, everyone "knew" something else was going on just being withheld, and look what happened, so at this point, my gut feeling is with your husbands uneasy feeling.   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 02:22:11 PM
I'm looking through myspaces.

does anyone have the "purported" initials of Alyssa's "purported" boyrfirned?

I've seen a couple posts that have RP (turn out to be her new uncle), BN...but haven't seen anything that says fact...

I still don't know, unless NORTHERN has an idea she would like to share.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 02:24:05 PM
Sorry, I know I have freaked some of you by a couple of my posts. I am hoping to be wrong on them, but I think we better steel ourselves for what is going to come out. I don't think it is going to be something we have prepared ourselves for. JMO

Fanny...this is what I posted last night

I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 02:28:32 PM
Sorry, I know I have freaked some of you by a couple of my posts. I am hoping to be wrong on them, but I think we better steel ourselves for what is going to come out. I don't think it is going to be something we have prepared ourselves for. JMO

Fanny...this is what I posted last night

I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

I know.  ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 02:30:03 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?

hi chrissy...I was writing about my husband's trip to Jeff City.....that is all he told me. I asked him if asked any questions (knowing I would want to know ::MonkeyWink::) and of course he didn't. He did say that all the talk is very hush hush and he got the uneasy feeling that others in the room knew more than they were telling.  JMO but I wondered if there might be mutilation...but that's just me wondering....nothing to base it on.

I agree with you, I am speculating, considering what your husband had said along with the prosectors statement, trying to make a connection.  I personally think that your husbands uneasy feeling is probably right on, this whole case things have been very fishy.  Just like when Elizabeth first went missing, everyone "knew" something else was going on just being withheld, and look what happened, so at this point, my gut feeling is with your husbands uneasy feeling.   ::MonkeyWink::

I hope we are all wrong....what we know is bad enough.....how much more can her family take


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 19, 2009, 02:31:27 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?

hi chrissy...I was writing about my husband's trip to Jeff City.....that is all he told me. I asked him if asked any questions (knowing I would want to know ::MonkeyWink::) and of course he didn't. He did say that all the talk is very hush hush and he got the uneasy feeling that others in the room knew more than they were telling.  JMO but I wondered if there might be mutilation...but that's just me wondering....nothing to base it on.

I agree with you, I am speculating, considering what your husband had said along with the prosectors statement, trying to make a connection.  I personally think that your husbands uneasy feeling is probably right on, this whole case things have been very fishy.  Just like when Elizabeth first went missing, everyone "knew" something else was going on just being withheld, and look what happened, so at this point, my gut feeling is with your husbands uneasy feeling.   ::MonkeyWink::

Just some clarification, the last part stating "Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?" Was my question, that was not part of SunnyinTX's post.  Sorry for any confusion. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 02:37:40 PM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

Txsflame - try this link for the video

OK BACK THE TRUCK UP!!!  Let's take a close look at what is said in this interview with Trisha "Charlie" Rhodes:

First, the reporter quotes Trisha as describing Alyssa as "a friendly, average girl".
Trisha goes on to say, "Like, when I heard this, I couldn't believe it because she's such a good person.  She never seemed like she'd hide anything from anybody....I couldn't believe that she would do something like that."

Trisha's father states about his daughter, "She knew that Alyssa had the desire to want the experience of killing somebody, but she didn't believe that she had any, made any plans or anything like that."

Sooooo, what Trisha is saying is that a "friendly, average girl" has the desire to kill somebody??  That a "good person" wants to experience killing somebody??  And, just curious here, but since Alyssa wasn't the kind to "hide anything from anybody", are we to assume she shouted this "desire" from the rooftops for the world to hear?? 

Trisha's father is a real piece of work too.  I mean that little snippet from him speaks VOLUMES about Smooth Criminal's MS activity, doesn't it?  He is so flippant about the fact that, yeah, so Alyssa wanted to kill somebody and told his daughter all about it but hey man, ya know, kids will be kids.... ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::

This interview took place either yesterday or today in the morning (when they show Trisha's cell phone, it says 9:33am).  So this rockstar of a dad takes his loser daughter (nice nose ring, btw) out of school where she is then interviewed singing the praises about the positive character of an admitted murderer???  Are you freaking kidding me??  (There's not a monkey icon available that can accurately represent my feelings here....)

Let's not forget that Trisha/Charlie/Smooth Criminal is also the co-author of another LOVELY MS page: http://www.myspace.com/fuckinpurpleunicorns





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klh21 on November 19, 2009, 02:37:52 PM
Thanks for the welcomes!! =)

I definitely agree that she most likely did more to this poor girl than just simply killing her and dumping her in the grave. I'm sure it will eventually come out and that it will be quite disturbing, even though I wouldn't put anything past this MONSTER. However, she couldn't have had a TON of time considering that people started searching for Elizabeth shortly after she went missing. I'm sure she had enough time to do some horrific acts, no doubt. No one really wants to imagine what she might have done to poor Elizabeth...IMO she probably did take out a lot of inner rage during this act and LE saw the outcome first hand, which had to be completely devastating...

The time frame she had to commit the murder stands out in my mind though, so lets hope the monster didn't have enough time to see what it felt like to do more than just kill.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 02:38:26 PM
It took less than two hours to certify Alyssa Bustamante as an adult in the case, the events of her life in the last two decades may have shaped her into what prosecutors now call a cold-blooded killer.

Shortly after Elizabeth's body was found last month, several of our sources pointed the finger at Alyssa.

Since that time, ABC 17 News has been looking into Bustamante's background and talking to people who know her.

Much of what we found came out in court during the certification hearing Wednesday and may provide the basis of the case against Alyssa.

We talked to one of Alyssa's best friends Kimberly Saunders.

"When I first met Alyssa I've got pictures of her in blue jeans, bright shirts, and happy and smiling. Now the pictures I see are gloomy, dark and upset," says Saunders.

The girls met two years ago through their Cole County church.

At the time, Alyssa was living with her grandparents at a home next door to Elizabeth Olten's family.

Alyssa has spent more than half her life living with her grandparents.

Kim says in eighth or ninth grade, she started noticing Alyssa change, becoming more destructive.

A similar claim was echoed in the courtroom Wednesday.

A witness said when Alyssa was in eighth grade, she tried to kill herself by cutting her wrists.

Something Kim knew about.

"One night, I was staying at her house and she came out and she said she liked the feeling of blood on her hands when she cut her wrists because she said it made her feel better," says Kim.

Alyssa spent ten days at the Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center in Columbia for the suicide attempt.

When she was released, she was put on Prozac and the A and B student started regular counseling in school and at home with a national treatment center called Pathways, according to testimony.

In court documents, counselors describe Alyssa as "gifted", "clever" and someone with a "high IQ" who was "bored at school".

They also tell a story of supportive grandparents who would take away privileges when Alyssa would get in trouble.

"Her grandma tried to do everything to take care of her, let her know people love her," says Kim.

But Kim also says its love that Alyssa never thought she had.

"She always told me how much she wanted a mom and dad and she just felt alone."

Alyssa's mother didn't take care of her; we found her father is serving ten years in prison on assault charges.

Kim tells me she thinks that this feeling of abandonment is what made Alyssa spiral out of control.

ABC 17 News found this video posted by Alyssa on her You-Tube account a year ago where she touches an electric fence and then encourages her younger twin brothers to do the same.

That video which also lists her hobby as "killing people" has since been removed from the internet.

And we found tweets that post her feelings years ago, all the way up to just a few days before the alleged murder saying "bad decisions make great stories" and "this is all I want in life, a reason for all that pain".

The tweets have since been deleted.

And even with these signs of depression and two years of treatment, therapists note in their reports that they couldn't pinpoint what may have possibly caused such a heinous crime.

Neither could her best friend.

"When I heard about it, I teared up because that was my best friend. She was really close to me. She meant a lot to me, but I never thought Alyssa would do something like that.

And what scares her more?

Kim says it could have been her.

It's a feeling shared by other students at Jefferson City High School.


"I feel weird that I know her. I'm glad I didn't know her recently. It could have been me, it could have been any of us," says Jefferson City High School student Cierra Seaman.

But prosecutors say instead it was Elizabeth Olten, a nine year old girl, whose family says loved caring for animals.

Alyssa's friend Kim says she just wants to see Alyssa get help.

For now, Alyssa is in Cole County custody.

We talked to Sheriff Greg White and he tells us they will do everything they can to protect Alyssa while she is behind bars.

Alyssa's grandparents, along with her mother were at today's court hearing, but no one wanted to talk to us.

http://www.kmiz.com/news/story.php?id=15503&author=Brynn Gingras&category=Investigation&franchise=&county=Cole&city=69&partner=


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 02:38:55 PM
Patrica "charlie" "trish" Rhodes aka SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal and Papa Darryl Rhodes have been added to the KOMU video.  They start about 1/2 way. 

Smooth Criminal moved to MO last year
First person she met was Alyssa
Met her at Simonsen 9th Grade Centre
"she was a really good person, one of the nicest people I know"   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814





I would hate to think what Trish would consider a bad person. ::MonkeyMad::

I can't get this video to work.. anyone else?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 02:40:52 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?


I don't. It is very difficult to dismember a body. And very, very messy.

I don't because it would take too long... she wouldn't have been finished... JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 02:40:57 PM
I'm looking through myspaces.

does anyone have the "purported" initials of Alyssa's "purported" boyrfirned?

I've seen a couple posts that have RP (turn out to be her new uncle), BN...but haven't seen anything that says fact...

I still don't know, unless NORTHERN has an idea she would like to share.

I found an ex but not the person who I am sure was the current.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 02:41:07 PM
and have to add:  after Jessica, and Shasta and Dylan, and more since - nothing will surprise me.  Break my heart, though.

Somer, Caylee, Nevaeh, Sandra, Robert, Shaniya, Tori, Jada, Alex......and all heart breaking.  ::MonkeyTears::

and to think that these are just the last 12 months - unbelieveable...

 ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 02:43:10 PM
I'm looking through myspaces.

does anyone have the "purported" initials of Alyssa's "purported" boyrfirned?

I've seen a couple posts that have RP (turn out to be her new uncle), BN...but haven't seen anything that says fact...

I still don't know, unless NORTHERN has an idea she would like to share.

I found an ex but not the person who I am sure was the current.

a Chris S. caught my eye, but I can't tell if he was a BF or just a close friend.

Anyway, here's another pic:

(http://alyssajohnnypants.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 02:43:40 PM
Patrica "charlie" "trish" Rhodes aka SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal and Papa Darryl Rhodes have been added to the KOMU video.  They start about 1/2 way. 

Smooth Criminal moved to MO last year
First person she met was Alyssa
Met her at Simonsen 9th Grade Centre
"she was a really good person, one of the nicest people I know"   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814





I would hate to think what Trish would consider a bad person. ::MonkeyMad::

I can't get this video to work.. anyone else?

I just tried it again and clicked on the centre of the video player and it worked.  It did take a bit to work but it did work.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 02:45:47 PM
I'm looking through myspaces.

does anyone have the "purported" initials of Alyssa's "purported" boyrfirned?

I've seen a couple posts that have RP (turn out to be her new uncle), BN...but haven't seen anything that says fact...

I still don't know, unless NORTHERN has an idea she would like to share.

I found an ex but not the person who I am sure was the current.

a Chris S. caught my eye, but I can't tell if he was a BF or just a close friend.

Anyway, here's another pic:

(http://alyssajohnnypants.jpg)

shoot - didn't do it right.

here it is sideways:

(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/97/l_2805d2bdd75b4cd6b205124eea57388c.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 02:46:42 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 02:47:05 PM
Has anyone seen a picture of the grandparents? They were in court yesterday, so why are there no pictures of them arriving or leaving?

I am also a bit surprised not to see pictures of Elizabeth's family yesterday.

The lack of pictures is very odd to me. I think OK the press is respecting the family....but come on...we know the press is not that respectful.

Something is just not right but I don't know what it is.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 02:48:55 PM
Right side up



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 02:50:07 PM
Has anyone seen a picture of the grandparents? They were in court yesterday, so why are there no pictures of them arriving or leaving?

I am also a bit surprised not to see pictures of Elizabeth's family yesterday.

The lack of pictures is very odd to me. I think OK the press is respecting the family....but come on...we know the press is not that respectful.

Something is just not right but I don't know what it is.

One of the videos from last night did show the Olten family.  They were in pink T-shirts getting into a vehicle  after the hearing.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 19, 2009, 02:50:13 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297
So with that error now being taken care of, and that was quite a big error, perhaps the grandparents were helping LE not hindering anything.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 02:51:25 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297

<Snipped>

Saturday, Oct. 24


Bustamante was taken to a Hawthorn's Children's Psychiatric Hospital to be evaluated and monitored. Court officials said they took her to the hospital because Bustamante made statements about harming herself.

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 02:53:44 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297
So with that error now being taken care of, and that was quite a big error, perhaps the grandparents were helping LE not hindering anything.

yes, that changes a lot.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 19, 2009, 02:55:31 PM
I'm looking through myspaces.

does anyone have the "purported" initials of Alyssa's "purported" boyrfirned?

I've seen a couple posts that have RP (turn out to be her new uncle), BN...but haven't seen anything that says fact...

I still don't know, unless NORTHERN has an idea she would like to share.

I found an ex but not the person who I am sure was the current.

a Chris S. caught my eye, but I can't tell if he was a BF or just a close friend.

Anyway, here's another pic:

(http://alyssajohnnypants.jpg)

shoot - didn't do it right.

here it is sideways:

(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/97/l_2805d2bdd75b4cd6b205124eea57388c.jpg)

Are those bruises on the monsters arm?


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaMyspace.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 02:57:27 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297


Saturday, Oct. 24

Bustamante was taken to a Hawthorn's Children's Psychiatric Hospital to be evaluated and monitored. Court officials said they took her to the hospital because Bustamante made statements about harming herself.

I am really glad to read this...I really hated to think the GP's took that Wednesday.  I know I am in the minority and that's OK, but I do not believe the GP's knew anything that night. I do think one of the other children might have found something A wrote and took it to the GP's and the GP's made sure the LE got it. I could be wrong I know.......but I think the GP's were doing the best they could......I don;t think they would have protected her if they knew or even thought she had done this horrible deed.

I know I could come into my house covered in blood and no one would know unless they were standing at the door...I could slip into the basement, clean up and change clothes and no one would be the wiser.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 02:59:15 PM
Has anyone seen a picture of the grandparents? They were in court yesterday, so why are there no pictures of them arriving or leaving?

I am also a bit surprised not to see pictures of Elizabeth's family yesterday.

The lack of pictures is very odd to me. I think OK the press is respecting the family....but come on...we know the press is not that respectful.

Something is just not right but I don't know what it is.

One of the videos from last night did show the Olten family.  They were in pink T-shirts getting into a vehicle  after the hearing.

thanks NR...I must have missed it....anyone know where I can find it??  Anyone seen anything of the GP's or the mother of A??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:00:56 PM


Are those bruises on the monsters arm?


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaMyspace.jpg)


looks so to me


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:01:56 PM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

Txsflame - try this link for the video

OK BACK THE TRUCK UP!!!  Let's take a close look at what is said in this interview with Trisha "Charlie" Rhodes:

First, the reporter quotes Trisha as describing Alyssa as "a friendly, average girl".
Trisha goes on to say, "Like, when I heard this, I couldn't believe it because she's such a good person.  She never seemed like she'd hide anything from anybody....I couldn't believe that she would do something like that."

Trisha's father states about his daughter, "She knew that Alyssa had the desire to want the experience of killing somebody, but she didn't believe that she had any, made any plans or anything like that."

Sooooo, what Trisha is saying is that a "friendly, average girl" has the desire to kill somebody??  That a "good person" wants to experience killing somebody??  And, just curious here, but since Alyssa wasn't the kind to "hide anything from anybody", are we to assume she shouted this "desire" from the rooftops for the world to hear?? 

Trisha's father is a real piece of work too.  I mean that little snippet from him speaks VOLUMES about Smooth Criminal's MS activity, doesn't it?  He is so flippant about the fact that, yeah, so Alyssa wanted to kill somebody and told his daughter all about it but hey man, ya know, kids will be kids.... ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::

This interview took place either yesterday or today in the morning (when they show Trisha's cell phone, it says 9:33am).  So this rockstar of a dad takes his loser daughter (nice nose ring, btw) out of school where she is then interviewed singing the praises about the positive character of an admitted murderer???  Are you freaking kidding me??  (There's not a monkey icon available that can accurately represent my feelings here....)

Let's not forget that Trisha/Charlie/Smooth Criminal is also the co-author of another LOVELY MS page: http://www.myspace.com/fuckinpurpleunicorns





Be my guest!
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/monkey-hulk.gif)




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 03:05:18 PM


Are those bruises on the monsters arm?


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaMyspace.jpg)


looks so to me

Yup


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 03:09:07 PM
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001


if the above link doesn't work

Txsflame - try this link for the video

OK BACK THE TRUCK UP!!!  Let's take a close look at what is said in this interview with Trisha "Charlie" Rhodes:

First, the reporter quotes Trisha as describing Alyssa as "a friendly, average girl".
Trisha goes on to say, "Like, when I heard this, I couldn't believe it because she's such a good person.  She never seemed like she'd hide anything from anybody....I couldn't believe that she would do something like that."

Trisha's father states about his daughter, "She knew that Alyssa had the desire to want the experience of killing somebody, but she didn't believe that she had any, made any plans or anything like that."

Sooooo, what Trisha is saying is that a "friendly, average girl" has the desire to kill somebody??  That a "good person" wants to experience killing somebody??  And, just curious here, but since Alyssa wasn't the kind to "hide anything from anybody", are we to assume she shouted this "desire" from the rooftops for the world to hear?? 

Trisha's father is a real piece of work too.  I mean that little snippet from him speaks VOLUMES about Smooth Criminal's MS activity, doesn't it?  He is so flippant about the fact that, yeah, so Alyssa wanted to kill somebody and told his daughter all about it but hey man, ya know, kids will be kids.... ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::

This interview took place either yesterday or today in the morning (when they show Trisha's cell phone, it says 9:33am).  So this rockstar of a dad takes his loser daughter (nice lip ring, btw) out of school where she is then interviewed singing the praises about the positive character of an admitted murderer???  Are you freaking kidding me??  (There's not a monkey icon available that can accurately represent my feelings here....)

Let's not forget that Trisha/Charlie/Smooth Criminal is also the co-author of another LOVELY MS page: http://www.myspace.com/fuckinpurpleunicorns


---->  edited by me to say LIP ring (not nose ring...sorry!)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: higherhopes on November 19, 2009, 03:10:07 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 19, 2009, 03:10:09 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?


I don't. It is very difficult to dismember a body. And very, very messy.
I don't think so either, I think if that would've happened....it would've been included in her other charges. JMHO ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:11:08 PM
Has anyone seen a picture of the grandparents? They were in court yesterday, so why are there no pictures of them arriving or leaving?

I am also a bit surprised not to see pictures of Elizabeth's family yesterday.

The lack of pictures is very odd to me. I think OK the press is respecting the family....but come on...we know the press is not that respectful.

Something is just not right but I don't know what it is.

One of the videos from last night did show the Olten family.  They were in pink T-shirts getting into a vehicle  after the hearing.

But none so far of the Brookes, or the mother, Right?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 03:12:19 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

definitely yes, IMO.  We can only be responsible for what you know, but once we know something, we are definitely responsible for what we do with the information.  (if that makes sense)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:12:28 PM
Here is a theory, in an earlier post, some had posted: 
Richardson said that he cannot tell us if Olten’s body was found in only one of those holes.

Then someone else posted:
I think I have mentioned my DH works for the State of MO and is often in Jeff City.  Well, he was there on Monday and the 'word' is the stabbing was than just stabbing and when the details comes out it will be shocking to all......especially since it was a 15 yo who committed this horrible crime.

Do you think Elizabeth's body was dismembered and placed in BOTH graves?


I don't. It is very difficult to dismember a body. And very, very messy.
I don't think so either, I think if that would've happened....it would've been included in her other charges. JMHO ::MonkeyNoNo::

I am thinking more of sexual body parts or organs.  Not dismemberment. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 03:12:31 PM
Well that was quite the error on when she was admitted to the psych joint, eh?  Somewhat relieving to know the g'parents didn't hightail it to SL with her that night.

Man, she looks like the devil in that last pic in the car.   ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:13:22 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

Why on earth would you be on the thread asking this?? ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 03:13:40 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??
Without a doubt you should call LE.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:14:47 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

I would in your position. I think we have seen what not getting involved can lead to. I hope the woman he robbed is OK.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 03:15:35 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

definitely yes, IMO.  We can only be responsible for what you know, but once we know something, we are definitely responsible for what we do with the information.  (if that makes sense)

AACK...let me try that again (it DIDNT make sense!):
What I meant to say is that we can't blame ourselves for stuff we have no knowledge of.  But if we DO know about something, it is our responsibility to make sure we do the right thing with the information.
OK, that's a little better...shhheeesssh!   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: higherhopes on November 19, 2009, 03:16:50 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

Why on earth would you be on the thread asking this?? ::MonkeyShocked::
I think I just explained that question, I apoligized for asking here but just wanted to see if I would be doing the right thing in others opinion...I was not gonna mention anymore about it....just wanted other monkeys opinion on it...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:17:28 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

Why on earth would you be on the thread asking this?? ::MonkeyShocked::

Fanny.....IM made it clear why she was asking it here. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:17:45 PM
Well that was quite the error on when she was admitted to the psych joint, eh?  Somewhat relieving to know the g'parents didn't hightail it to SL with her that night.

Man, she looks like the devil in that last pic in the car.   ::MonkeyDevil2::

Yes, and for my two cents, it looked like there were bruises on her knuckles too.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: theboyzmom on November 19, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.

I am glad that you said all that in a way everyone could understand.  I tried to say that earlier but you did a much better job of making it comprehendible.   

I think they were totally into excusing her and enabling her, and this was not the first time. JMO

You could be exactly right Fannie - I am not sure what to think at this point.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:18:57 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

Why on earth would you be on the thread asking this?? ::MonkeyShocked::

Fanny.....IM made it clear why she was asking it here. ::MonkeyNoNo::

It wasn't IM and she should have been on the phone with LE instead of blogging about it. jmo


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:19:24 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

Why on earth would you be on the thread asking this?? ::MonkeyShocked::
I think I just explained that question, I apoligized for asking here but just wanted to see if I would be doing the right thing in others opinion...I was not gonna mention anymore about it....just wanted other monkeys opinion on it...

IM...I am glad you asked here.....and I will be very interested in hearing the follow up.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:20:44 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

Why on earth would you be on the thread asking this?? ::MonkeyShocked::
I think I just explained that question, I apoligized for asking here but just wanted to see if I would be doing the right thing in others opinion...I was not gonna mention anymore about it....just wanted other monkeys opinion on it...

Why would you even HAVE to ask what to do??? You have been on these threads and see what happens when no one does anything.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 03:20:48 PM
Has anyone seen a picture of the grandparents? They were in court yesterday, so why are there no pictures of them arriving or leaving?

I am also a bit surprised not to see pictures of Elizabeth's family yesterday.

The lack of pictures is very odd to me. I think OK the press is respecting the family....but come on...we know the press is not that respectful.

Something is just not right but I don't know what it is.

One of the videos from last night did show the Olten family.  They were in pink T-shirts getting into a vehicle  after the hearing.

But none so far of the Brookes, or the mother, Right?

Not yet.  Just going through vidoes.  Darryl Rhodes appears on this one as well.   ::MonkeyEek::

http://www.ky3.com/news/local/70376722.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:24:29 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

Why on earth would you be on the thread asking this?? ::MonkeyShocked::

Fanny.....IM made it clear why she was asking it here. ::MonkeyNoNo::

It wasn't IM and she should have been on the phone with LE instead of blogging about it. jmo

right not IM......but HH...sorry IM...but there was still no need to reply in that manner.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 03:32:54 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

HigherHopes,
Just wondering, why would you NOT contact LE?  What are your concerns for not reporting this info?
Secondly, if the brother of the boy is old enough, I think I would personally tell HIM that HE needs to report what he knows to LE (with you there as moral support, if need be), and that if he doesn't YOU WILL.  LE is going to question him anyway, so it may as well come from him.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 03:34:47 PM
Teenager indicted in slaying of 9-year-old girl

JEFFERSON CITY — Hours after a juvenile court judge certified her to stand trial as an adult, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante was indicted yesterday on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the Oct. 21 death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce entered a plea of not guilty on the teen’s behalf and asked the public defender’s office to review whether she qualifies for representation. The judge ordered Bustamante held without bond in the custody of the Cole County Sheriff’s Department.

The indictment alleges Bustamante killed the 9-year-old by strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her with a knife.

Investigators said she dug two graves four days before the murder, evidence of premeditation and cool deliberation.

David Cook, a Cole County juvenile officer, testified yesterday that, after reading notes and analysis by Bustamante’s therapists, he is not much closer to figuring out a motive for the alleged crime. “There may not be a definite diagnosis,” he said yesterday in the juvenile hearing. “It may just be something the individual wanted to do. I don’t know that there will ever necessarily be an answer.”

He said Bustamante is described in the documents as a troubled, angst-ridden teen, but not extraordinarily so. Her family life was less than ideal. Her father, Ceasar Bustamante, is serving 10 years in the Missouri Eastern Correctional Facility in Pacific for assault. Her mother, Michelle Bustamante, has had personal and legal problems, prompting a court to rule her unfit to care for her children.

Since 2002, Alyssa Bustamante has lived in St. Martins under the guardianship of her maternal grandmother, who also cares for her younger siblings. Cook said the home on Lomo Drive offered a structured environment that featured chores and family vacations to places such as Branson. Her grandparents were tough disciplinarians who didn’t hesitate to take away privileges.

Bustamante also was a good student, whose grade-point average ranked in the top 35 percent of all sophomores at Jefferson City High School. She qualified for gifted programs but had motivation problems, Cook said.

Two classmates of Bustamante who attended proceedings yesterday at the Cole County Courthouse said the girl they knew tended to wear dark eyeliner and black shirts printed with skull shapes, but they said other kids dressed similarly.

In 2007, Cook said, Bustamante attempted suicide, prompting a 10-day stay at the Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center. Follow-up treatment included a prescription for the anti-depressant Prozac and near-daily meetings with counselors. The treatment was primarily focused on her tendencies toward depression and self-mutilation — not her potential for homicidal tendencies, said Cook and Kurt Valentine, her juvenile court counsel.

A standardized test designed to evaluate Bustamante’s state of mind administered before Elizabeth Olten was killed determined that her risk for self-harm was “mild” and her tendency toward moodiness was “moderate.”
Bustamante’s posts on the Web site Twitter in the days before Oct. 21 death offer an insight to the teenager without necessarily showing a red flag. On Sept. 13, she wrote: “the world goes by my cage and never sees me.” Four days later she posted: “bad decisions make great stories.”

A video Bustamante posted on a personal Youtube site shows her touching an electric fence built to contain livestock. On the soundtrack, a girl can be heard gleefully laughing while encouraging two younger brothers to do the same. A link to the video is included in the online version of this story.

Cole County Prosecuting Attorney Mark Richardson said he will likely seek the strongest punishment available for Bustamante as a juvenile: life in prison without the possibility of parole.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/nov/19/teenager-indicted-in-slaying-of-9-year-old-girl/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:34:51 PM
Sorry....I was addressing my responses to IM instead of HH as they should have been.  Got kicked off and jsut got back on.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 03:40:21 PM
I highly doubted that law enforcement would let anyone from the home where the girl was last seen just take off.  So glad that was straightened out.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 03:42:08 PM
Bustamante Allegedly Dug Graves Before Murder

Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante aged considerably Wednesday when a Missouri judge ruled that she should be tried as an adult for allegedly strangling a 9-year-old neighbor a week after digging a grave for the girl.

The judge also entered a not guilty plea on her behalf after she was indicted on charges of first-degree murder. She is being held without bond.

The teenager had told state police that she wanted to know what the experience was like, a highway patrol officer said.

"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like," Missouri State Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice testified in court Wednesday.

She also allegedly cut the girl's throat and stabbed her.

"She committed the murder after deliberation, which means cool deliberation or cool reflection on the matter for any length of time," Cole County prosecutor Mark Richardson told the court Wednesday.

Elizabeth Olten's body was found in a wooded area near her home in St. Martins Oct. 23 after the suspect led police to it, after which she was arrested, authorities said. The girl had vanished Oct. 21, but it wasn't long after that police found what Cole Country Sheriff Greg White called "written evidence" that led them to Bustamante.

If convicted, Bustamante could be sentenced to life in prison.

The suspect did not have a prior criminal record, police said

Suspect Spoke of 'Pain' and 'Terrors'
But there were signs of a troubled past.

On the teen's YouTube page, a video appears to show the suspect with her brothers purposefully shocking themselves on an electrified fence.

On what appears to be her Twitter page, her messages speak of "addiction" and "terrors."

One Tweet: "& all I want in life is a reason for all this pain."

A grim portrait of Bustamante emerged earlier based on writings on the Internet, including a YouTube profile in which "killing people" is listed under the girl's hobbies.

In court, officials said the teenager had attempted suicide in 2007 and has been taking an antidepressant ever since.

"If one of the priorities or focus of her life everyday is pain, then it would be natural to pull people into it, to inflict pain upon them," said Brad Garrett, a former FBI profiler and ABC News consultant.

Lawyer Says Suspect Is a 'Child'
Kurt Valentine, Bustamante's attorney, said the teenager had recently tried to harm herself while in custody by cutting herself with her fingernails.

Valentine had urged officials to be cautious with their judgments of the suspect.

"I would ask that they wait, that they listen to the facts as they come out and not judge quickly," Valentine said. "Learn about this person, learn about this child. You're dealing with a child."


http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/bustamante-allegedly-dug-graves-murder/story?id=9121653


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 03:45:11 PM
<snipped>

The court documents also revealed for the first time the violence of Bustamante's alleged attack on the young girl. Court papers state the Bustamante strangled Olten, slit her throat and stabbed the girl while she was dying.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/teen-murder-suspect-alyssa-bustamanta-faces-degree-murder/story?id=9117496


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 03:48:26 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:49:07 PM
<snipped>

The court documents also revealed for the first time the violence of Bustamante's alleged attack on the young girl. Court papers state the Bustamante strangled Olten, slit her throat and stabbed the girl while she was dying.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/teen-murder-suspect-alyssa-bustamanta-faces-degree-murder/story?id=9117496

I wonder how many times she stabbed her. I think the number would point to how much rage she had. Stabbing is a very personal, up-close crime.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:51:53 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::
::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:53:00 PM
SNIPPED
Lawyer Says Suspect Is a 'Child'
Kurt Valentine, Bustamante's attorney, said the teenager had recently tried to harm herself while in custody by cutting herself with her fingernails.

Valentine had urged officials to be cautious with their judgments of the suspect.

"I would ask that they wait, that they listen to the facts as they come out and not judge quickly," Valentine said. "Learn about this person, learn about this child. You're dealing with a child."

Intellectually I know this is a defense lawyers doing what defense lawyers do. But emotionally I love to slap his ears off his head!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 03:55:25 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

I would bet it is her....looks at the eyes....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 19, 2009, 03:55:40 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

definitely yes, IMO.  We can only be responsible for what you know, but once we know something, we are definitely responsible for what we do with the information.  (if that makes sense)
I agree...you can call LE and tell them that you are reporting something you heard, and that you wish to remain anonymous.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 03:56:05 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

deviantid is definately her


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:56:08 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

The biggest picture could be her or her twin. JMO
The SCREAM pic got me. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 03:57:35 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::
NORTHERN ROSE, did you see this site?  ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 03:58:22 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: higherhopes on November 19, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
Thank you Sunny, I just called LE and and officer is on his way here to read the text messages that the brother has been sending me all day.....Im sorry , maybe I shouldnt have brought it up, but these two boys are someone  I have known all their lives and I just had doubts about what I was about to do.....Thanks for answering all those that did...I have called LE and they are on the way here now....it ws a hard decission but I made it!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 04:01:33 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 

OK, well thank goodness for your super sleuth skills NorthernRose!  I certainly don't want to stir the already boiling-over pot but thought it might be something. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 19, 2009, 04:01:47 PM
Thank you Sunny, I just called LE and and officer is on his way here to read the text messages that the brother has been sending me all day.....Im sorry , maybe I shouldnt have brought it up, but these two boys are someone  I have known all their lives and I just had doubts about what I was about to do.....Thanks for answering all those that did...I have called LE and they are on the way here now....it ws a hard decission but I made it!
I'm sure it was HH, glad you made the call.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 04:06:02 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 

After checking out that MS, the similarities are EERIE...she even "goes to Jefferson"!  Must be another Jefferson.  Crazy.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 04:08:25 PM
Found the video that shows the Olten Family leaving the hearing!  ::MonkeyCheer3::   ::MonkeyCheer3::

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-murder-suspect-111809,0,4511840.story



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 19, 2009, 04:12:13 PM
Thanks Northern Rose.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 04:14:27 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 

After checking out that MS, the similarities are EERIE...she even "goes to Jefferson"!  Must be another Jefferson.  Crazy.

The similarities are eerie but it is not her.  This one goes to Jefferson in Chicago.  Here is her twitter http://twitter.com/alyssa_apoc .  She also lists her birthday which does not match the Monster's. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 19, 2009, 04:17:00 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297


Saturday, Oct. 24

Bustamante was taken to a Hawthorn's Children's Psychiatric Hospital to be evaluated and monitored. Court officials said they took her to the hospital because Bustamante made statements about harming herself.

I am really glad to read this...I really hated to think the GP's took that Wednesday.  I know I am in the minority and that's OK, but I do not believe the GP's knew anything that night. I do think one of the other children might have found something A wrote and took it to the GP's and the GP's made sure the LE got it. I could be wrong I know.......but I think the GP's were doing the best they could......I don;t think they would have protected her if they knew or even thought she had done this horrible deed.

I know I could come into my house covered in blood and no one would know unless they were standing at the door...I could slip into the basement, clean up and change clothes and no one would be the wiser.
I feel the same way that you do Sunny. They would not have been getting her help, if they didn't care, under the circumstances I believe they were doing the best they could.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 04:17:18 PM
Thanks!  And for the record, I wanna be NorthernRose when I grow up!!!   :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 04:18:07 PM
So we received a clarification on the article that the grandparents did NOT take her to a mental hospital the night Elizabeth was killed.  This still leaves the question, why did she have an unexcused absence from school the next day ?  The principle testified that the Thursday was her only unexcused absence.  I know here the schools have an automated phone system that calls the parents if the child is not in school and has not called in.  The grandparents would have known she was missing from school Thursday?  Where was she?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 04:18:26 PM
Thank you Sunny, I just called LE and and officer is on his way here to read the text messages that the brother has been sending me all day.....Im sorry , maybe I shouldnt have brought it up, but these two boys are someone  I have known all their lives and I just had doubts about what I was about to do.....Thanks for answering all those that did...I have called LE and they are on the way here now....it ws a hard decission but I made it!

HH...good for you. I think you did the right thing. Please keep us posted.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 04:18:49 PM
Thanks!  And for the record, I wanna be NorthernRose when I grow up!!!   :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:

You may want to re-think that!  LOL  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 04:19:24 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 

WOW.....thanks NR....I sure thought it was AB....those are dead eyes too


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 04:20:33 PM
So we received a clarification on the article that the grandparents did NOT take her to a mental hospital the night Elizabeth was killed.  This still leaves the question, why did she have an unexcused absence from school the next day ?  The principle testified that the Thursday was her only unexcused absence.  I know here the schools have an automated phone system that calls the parents if the child is not in school and has not called in.  The grandparents would have known she was missing from school Thursday?  Where was she?

Exactly.  Guess we can take the "skipped school with bf" and put it back in the black......


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 04:21:19 PM
Found the video that shows the Olten Family leaving the hearing!  ::MonkeyCheer3::   ::MonkeyCheer3::

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-murder-suspect-111809,0,4511840.story




Thanks NR...you are amazing.  God Bless these people for having the strength they do and the love for Elizabeth.......different as night and day to the Anthony's.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 04:23:26 PM
Thanks!  And for the record, I wanna be NorthernRose when I grow up!!!   :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:

 ::MonkeyJnBox:: ::MonkeyJnBox::  she is pretty darn amazing. I said earlier of anything ever happened to me I would want her on my case for sure!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 04:24:03 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 

WOW.....thanks NR....I sure thought it was AB....those are dead eyes too

I know what you mean.  I scares me how many could be walking around out there listening to this story and getting ideas.  What ever happened to kids dressing in nice gingham print carrying wicker baskets with their lunches to school?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 19, 2009, 04:24:40 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

What about this 15yr old kids parents?  Short answer is yes, I would tell LE if you know he did indeed rob someone.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 04:24:42 PM
So we received a clarification on the article that the grandparents did NOT take her to a mental hospital the night Elizabeth was killed.  This still leaves the question, why did she have an unexcused absence from school the next day ?  The principle testified that the Thursday was her only unexcused absence.  I know here the schools have an automated phone system that calls the parents if the child is not in school and has not called in.  The grandparents would have known she was missing from school Thursday?  Where was she?

I don;t know...but I'll bet we will find out ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 04:25:33 PM
So we received a clarification on the article that the grandparents did NOT take her to a mental hospital the night Elizabeth was killed.  This still leaves the question, why did she have an unexcused absence from school the next day ?  The principle testified that the Thursday was her only unexcused absence.  I know here the schools have an automated phone system that calls the parents if the child is not in school and has not called in.  The grandparents would have known she was missing from school Thursday?  Where was she?

Yup.  I wonder if she gave him any hints as to what she did or if she just kissed him harder?

Exactly.  Guess we can take the "skipped school with bf" and put it back in the black......


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: higherhopes on November 19, 2009, 04:26:06 PM
Thank you Sunny, I just called LE and and officer is on his way here to read the text messages that the brother has been sending me all day.....Im sorry , maybe I shouldnt have brought it up, but these two boys are someone  I have known all their lives and I just had doubts about what I was about to do.....Thanks for answering all those that did...I have called LE and they are on the way here now....it ws a hard decission but I made it!

HH...good for you. I think you did the right thing. Please keep us posted.
Thank You, but I dont feel real good right now, The woman the boy robbed turned out to be 88 years old and they didnt have any contact with her ThankGod, LE just told me that they turned her power off at the outside switch and when she went outside to see what was wrong they snuck in the back door and stole her purse among other things, now the 15 year old is on the run and they are looking for him, I gave them alot of info and maybe they will get him soon, Im so sorry to briing this here and will not speak of it again here in Elizabeths thread...I was just overwought I guess.....sorry again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 04:26:46 PM
Thanks!  And for the record, I wanna be NorthernRose when I grow up!!!   :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:

 ::MonkeyJnBox:: ::MonkeyJnBox::  she is pretty darn amazing. I said earlier of anything ever happened to me I would want her on my case for sure!!!

Awwww thanks.   ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: higherhopes on November 19, 2009, 04:30:16 PM
Hello Monkeys, this is OT and I appoligize for asking here, but this seems to be where everybody is,,,,,,I wanted to ask for advise to what I should do....I know a 15 year old boy who robbed a lady yesterday and right now Im having a conversation with this boys brother and he is telling me where he thinks the boy is running to...should I call LE and tell them what he is saying??

What about this 15yr old kids parents?  Short answer is yes, I would tell LE if you know he did indeed rob someone.
his father is dead and his Mother doesnt pay him any attention, the older brother that has been texting me just said the 15 year old has not been home in 5 days......LE just left here as I tected the boy while they were here reading it themselves and found out that 3 were involved and now they know who all three were.....its done....they say they will be back to talk to me later so, well anyway....I hate this, but what he did was not right and maybe they can do something with him before he does something else even worse then this..


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 04:32:31 PM


WOW.....thanks NR....I sure thought it was AB....those are dead eyes too

I know what you mean.  I scares me how many could be walking around out there listening to this story and getting ideas.  What ever happened to kids dressing in nice gingham print carrying wicker baskets with their lunches to school?

I wonder how many parents out there have no idea what their kids are posting on all the social networking sites. I do know if my kid had ever comes how looking the way some of these kids look, talk, act, etc., he would have been wearing false teeth at a very early age besides having no rear end to hold up his pants  ::MonkeyMad::  I know kids go thru 'stages' but our world has let the stages get out of hand and we need to take control back. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 04:37:11 PM
Thank you Sunny, I just called LE and and officer is on his way here to read the text messages that the brother has been sending me all day.....Im sorry , maybe I shouldnt have brought it up, but these two boys are someone  I have known all their lives and I just had doubts about what I was about to do.....Thanks for answering all those that did...I have called LE and they are on the way here now....it ws a hard decission but I made it!

HH...good for you. I think you did the right thing. Please keep us posted.
Thank You, but I dont feel real good right now, The woman the boy robbed turned out to be 88 years old and they didnt have any contact with her ThankGod, LE just told me that they turned her power off at the outside switch and when she went outside to see what was wrong they snuck in the back door and stole her purse among other things, now the 15 year old is on the run and they are looking for him, I gave them alot of info and maybe they will get him soon, Im so sorry to briing this here and will not speak of it again here in Elizabeths thread...I was just overwought I guess.....sorry again.

HH you did the right thing, I am so glad the lady wasn't harmed.  Believe it or not you might have saved this kid from worse things down the road. Stop apologizing.....you needed advise and you came to us for it.  If you feel uncomfortable talking about it here...just let me/us know and I/we will meet you in the MUSINGS thread...anytime!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: JOLfan on November 19, 2009, 04:38:18 PM
I would think someone would have noticed how she looked when she came home, which should have caused concern.  She must have been full of blood and mud and wet from the rain.  I would assume she also had cuts on her hands from the stabbing and possible bruises if Elizabeth tried to defend herself.  I hope Elizabeth got in at least one good wack.  I have seen before that often people who stab their victims get cuts themselves from their hand slipping down or off the knife.  With it being rainy I would assume that the knife was even more slippery and she would have cut herself to some degree. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 04:43:15 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 04:46:34 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

The biggest picture could be her or her twin. JMO
The SCREAM pic got me. ::MonkeyNoNo::
I don't think is is her .If you follow the link on her deviantArt page it takes you to her myspace and that girl has been updating her page everyday this past month.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 04:49:46 PM
Thank you Sunny, I just called LE and and officer is on his way here to read the text messages that the brother has been sending me all day.....Im sorry , maybe I shouldnt have brought it up, but these two boys are someone  I have known all their lives and I just had doubts about what I was about to do.....Thanks for answering all those that did...I have called LE and they are on the way here now....it ws a hard decission but I made it!

HH...good for you. I think you did the right thing. Please keep us posted.
Thank You, but I dont feel real good right now, The woman the boy robbed turned out to be 88 years old and they didnt have any contact with her ThankGod, LE just told me that they turned her power off at the outside switch and when she went outside to see what was wrong they snuck in the back door and stole her purse among other things, now the 15 year old is on the run and they are looking for him, I gave them alot of info and maybe they will get him soon, Im so sorry to briing this here and will not speak of it again here in Elizabeths thread...I was just overwought I guess.....sorry again.

You didn't do anything wrong.  You could do a search and see where a lot of people here posted someothing O/T and others responded and no apologies are necessary :)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 04:53:01 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851
Good Find!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 04:53:52 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851

ChrisIDKWTF i feel but it feels good :) Mood:(read status)  <---I Dont Know What The F*** (IDKWTF)
Posted at 12:33 AM Oct 28 from Mobile


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 04:54:40 PM
and 27 minutes later:  If i had been there i couldve stopped it. Why'd this happen? Shes a good girl...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 04:54:40 PM
Thanks!  And for the record, I wanna be NorthernRose when I grow up!!!   :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:

So do I!!   ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 19, 2009, 04:54:52 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851
Is this a boyfriend or just a good friend?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 04:56:20 PM
So we received a clarification on the article that the grandparents did NOT take her to a mental hospital the night Elizabeth was killed.  This still leaves the question, why did she have an unexcused absence from school the next day ?  The principle testified that the Thursday was her only unexcused absence.  I know here the schools have an automated phone system that calls the parents if the child is not in school and has not called in.  The grandparents would have known she was missing from school Thursday?  Where was she?

Was the following Friday a school day too? Was she at school that day?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 04:58:07 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851
Is this a boyfriend or just a good friend?

I think just a good friend - he got over it rather quickly, lol.

What I found interesting is Smooth Crim commented to him and he didn't reply.

I don't think Smooth Crim is really very close to Alyssa's friends - just my observation that could be wrong.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 05:00:05 PM
and 27 minutes later:  If i had been there i couldve stopped it. Why'd this happen? Shes a good girl...

yes.  that was a Tuesday.  I think he found out that his friend is a killer during that 27 minutes.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 05:00:26 PM
from ky3:  JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- New details have emerged about the teen suspect in the slaying of a 9-year-old girl but many facts about the case remain under wraps. Alyssa Bustamante, 15, is charged as an adult with first-degree murder and armed criminal action for the death of Elizabeth Olten. Law officers say she confessed to digging two holes and to killing Elizabeth five days later because she wanted to know what it felt like.

Police and prosecutors have declined to say why two holes were dug and whether Elizabeth was found in one of them. They also have not elaborated on the "written evidence" that helped lead them to Bustamante.

On a YouTube profile, Bustamante had listed her hobbies as "killing people" and "cutting."


MAKES TONS MORE SENSE NOW.  I believe the earlier report meant that was Elizabeth's body discovered in either one of the graves that Alyssa dug.  In other words, just because she dug two graves doesn't mean she put Elizabeth in either one of them...............



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 05:00:59 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851
Is this a boyfriend or just a good friend?

nrcg...glad you asked....

this was also on there

    *
      ☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal
      ☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal Posted at 12:35 AM Oct 31
      i love you. :) i feel very depressed too but i guess itll take time n jus visit her....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 05:01:32 PM
anyway, thought I'd bring it over if you guys didn't have it already.

Off to make dinner - bye all :)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 19, 2009, 05:11:32 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851
Is this a boyfriend or just a good friend?

nrcg...glad you asked....

this was also on there

    *
      ☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal
      ☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal Posted at 12:35 AM Oct 31
      i love you. :) i feel very depressed too but i guess itll take time n jus visit her....

Thanks Sunny and Jill.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 19, 2009, 05:12:27 PM
btw - re: the myspace for the f*ingpurpleunicorn owned by Trisha and her friend/lover Allie, Here is Allie's facebook and wouldn't you know it!  Not a Trisha nor a Charlie Rhodes to be found....

http://www.facebook.com/mrs.popasquat?ref=search&sid=531831730.619062670..1


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: higherhopes on November 19, 2009, 05:17:24 PM
Thanks Sunny and Yourmom, I am just very very upset with all this and I just wanted advice, I wasnt thinking clearly when I first heard about it, no tellin what might happen now......Thanks for understanding....and I might just leave a message in musings so it will all make sense of why I wasnt sure what to do!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 05:26:24 PM
Thanks Sunny and Yourmom, I am just very very upset with all this and I just wanted advice, I wasnt thinking clearly when I first heard about it, no tellin what might happen now......Thanks for understanding....and I might just leave a message in musings so it will all make sense of why I wasnt sure what to do!!

Feel free to do that if you want to and let us know when you do...but you really don't need to explain... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 05:33:48 PM



BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 05:41:17 PM
Lawyer entered and is trying to get her to a nut house and out of jail.....how nice.....gag:

Docket Entry: Entry of Appearance Filed 
 
 Docket Entry: Motion Filed 
Text:  Motion for Immediate Hospitalization and Treatment Pursuant to Section 552.050 RSMo. 
Filing Party:  KING , JAN 
 
 
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 05:46:46 PM
Lawyer entered and is trying to get her to a nut house and out of jail.....how nice.....gag:

Docket Entry: Entry of Appearance Filed 
 
 Docket Entry: Motion Filed 
Text:  Motion for Immediate Hospitalization and Treatment Pursuant to Section 552.050 RSMo. 
Filing Party:  KING , JAN 

Super hope that one doesn't fly!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 05:58:21 PM
552.050. 1. If the chief administrative officer of any correctional facility has reasonable cause to believe that any offender needs care in a mental hospital, he shall so certify to the division of classification and treatment, which shall then transfer the offender to a state mental hospital for custody, care and treatment. The hospital may detain and treat the offender for a period of time not to exceed ninety-six hours. At the expiration of the ninety-six hours, the offender shall be returned to a correctional facility designated by the department of corrections unless the individual admits himself as a voluntary patient or the mental health coordinator or head of the facility files for involuntary detention and treatment pursuant to chapter 632, RSMo. The petition filed pursuant to section 632.330, RSMo, shall be filed in the court having probate jurisdiction over the mental health facility in which the offender is being detained. The offender shall have the rights afforded respondents in sections 632.330 and 632.335, RSMo, except that at the conclusion of the hearing on the petition the court may order the offender detained for a period of time not to exceed ninety days. At the expiration of the ninety-day commitment period ordered by the court, the offender may be detained and treated involuntarily for up to an additional one year under sections 632.355 and 632.360, RSMo.

THIS IS WHAT ATTORNEY IS REFERENCING



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 06:00:46 PM
HH, you definitely did the right thing contacting LE.  By the grace of God maybe this young man getting in trouble now will save him and others much heartache later.  That's a pretty serious crime they committed. . . drawing an older woman out of her house like that.  Really, really cruel of them.  I hope he gets the help he needs.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 06:02:11 PM
In the pictures I saw, the monster didn't have fingernails long enough to really do any damage to herself.  She's likely puttin' on to try to get herself into a psych facility rather than being in jail.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 06:05:39 PM
In the pictures I saw, the monster didn't have fingernails long enough to really do any damage to herself.  She's likely puttin' on to try to get herself into a psych facility rather than being in jail.

Yep!  I am pretty sure I read they have already cut her nails anyway. I have long nails but I am not going to see if I can cut myself with them ::MonkeyJnBox::  I'd break one for sure and then be pizzed at myself!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
552.050. 1. If the chief administrative officer of any correctional facility has reasonable cause to believe that any offender needs care in a mental hospital, he shall so certify to the division of classification and treatment, which shall then transfer the offender to a state mental hospital for custody, care and treatment. The hospital may detain and treat the offender for a period of time not to exceed ninety-six hours. At the expiration of the ninety-six hours, the offender shall be returned to a correctional facility designated by the department of corrections unless the individual admits himself as a voluntary patient or the mental health coordinator or head of the facility files for involuntary detention and treatment pursuant to chapter 632, RSMo. The petition filed pursuant to section 632.330, RSMo, shall be filed in the court having probate jurisdiction over the mental health facility in which the offender is being detained. The offender shall have the rights afforded respondents in sections 632.330 and 632.335, RSMo, except that at the conclusion of the hearing on the petition the court may order the offender detained for a period of time not to exceed ninety days. At the expiration of the ninety-day commitment period ordered by the court, the offender may be detained and treated involuntarily for up to an additional one year under sections 632.355 and 632.360, RSMo.

THIS IS WHAT ATTORNEY IS REFERENCING



Thanks yourmom!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: higherhopes on November 19, 2009, 06:09:05 PM
For those that would like to know why I was indecisive about calling LE on the 15 year old today, I have posted the reasons in Musings......Id like to hear any advice that anyone has on how to proceed.....Thanks


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 06:21:18 PM
Lawyer entered and is trying to get her to a nut house and out of jail.....how nice.....gag:

Docket Entry: Entry of Appearance Filed 
 
 Docket Entry: Motion Filed 
Text:  Motion for Immediate Hospitalization and Treatment Pursuant to Section 552.050 RSMo. 
Filing Party:  KING , JAN 

District 19
District Defender: Jan King
210 Adams Street
Jefferson City, MO 65101
PHONE (573)
FAX (573)
E-MAIL

http://www.publicdefender.mo.gov/about/offices_and_contacts.htm

Super hope that one doesn't fly!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 19, 2009, 06:38:41 PM
btw - re: the myspace for the f*ingpurpleunicorn owned by Trisha and her friend/lover Allie, Here is Allie's facebook and wouldn't you know it!  Not a Trisha nor a Charlie Rhodes to be found....

http://www.facebook.com/mrs.popasquat?ref=search&sid=531831730.619062670..1

Honestly Jill, that is some amazing undercover work!  How in the heck did you figure that out?????


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 06:56:14 PM
NORTHERN ROSE, nanners.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 06:59:20 PM
For those that would like to know why I was indecisive about calling LE on the 15 year old today, I have posted the reasons in Musings......Id like to hear any advice that anyone has on how to proceed.....Thanks

Thanks HH I'll go over to Musings


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 19, 2009, 07:13:16 PM
btw - re: the myspace for the f*ingpurpleunicorn owned by Trisha and her friend/lover Allie, Here is Allie's facebook and wouldn't you know it!  Not a Trisha nor a Charlie Rhodes to be found....

http://www.facebook.com/mrs.popasquat?ref=search&sid=531831730.619062670..1

Honestly Jill, that is some amazing undercover work!  How in the heck did you figure that out?????
It could just mean she is not a fan of facebook lol It took me a while before I was converted too lol


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 19, 2009, 07:49:59 PM
Night Monks.... ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: MonaSuzy on November 19, 2009, 07:53:10 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 07:58:13 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

deviantid is definately her

This is not her.. There is a link to hit her up and it goes to this myspace
http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 19, 2009, 07:59:24 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Don't think it is the Monster.  This one has an email address that matches up with the following myspace page

http://www.myspace.com/alyssa_apoc

This one is a Sagittarius and the Monster's Birthday is in Jan. 

Never mind... I am behind... LOL  ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 08:18:54 PM
Attorney seeks mental health treatment for Mo. teen accused of killing 9-year-old girl

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — An attorney for Alyssa Bustamante is seeking to have her placed in a mental hospital while she faces a charge of murdering a 9-year-old mid-Missouri girl.

Online court records show that Bustamante's public defender filed a motion Thursday to have his 15-year-old client immediately hospitalized for mental health treatment.


Bustamante was indicted Wednesday as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the Oct. 21 death of Elizabeth Olten.

Authorities say Bustamante confessed to digging two holes, then killing Elizabeth five days later. They say Bustamante later led them to Elizabeth's body in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/sns-ap-us--missouri-girlslain,0,7654138.story


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 08:22:12 PM
Slaying suspect said hobby was 'killing people'

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — On an Internet site, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante listed her hobbies as "killing people" and "cutting." It may have sounded like a teenage exaggeration, but authorities say she fulfilled her words.

Even as new details emerge about the teenager charged with killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, many facts about the crime continued to be kept secret Thursday — and may never be released by authorities unless Bustamante goes to trial for murder.

Bustamante, who had been in juvenile custody since leading police to Elizabeth's body Oct. 23, was certified Wednesday as an adult and indicted on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action. She is accused of strangling Elizabeth, cutting her throat and stabbing her.

Online court records showed Thursday that a public defender assigned to represent Bustamante filed a motion seeking to have her placed in a state hospital for immediate mental health treatment.

On a YouTube profile viewed by The Associated Press, which has since been taken down, Bustamante listed her hobbies as "killing people" and "cutting." A year ago, Bustamante posted a video to the site in which she appears to intentionally shock herself on an electric fence near her home, then goads her two younger brothers into doing the same.

In court Wednesday, juvenile justice officials testified that Bustamante attempted to commit suicide in 2007 and had been receiving mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself.

A police officer testified that Bustamante confessed to digging two holes to be used as a grave, then killing Elizabeth five days later without provocation because she wanted to know what it felt like.

But repeated objections by Bustamante's juvenile justice attorney prevented the police officer from explaining why two holes were dug. Cole County prosecutor Mark Richardson also has declined to elaborate.

"I know that, but I cannot go into those details right now," Richardson said.

Asked if he could say whether Elizabeth's body was found in only one of those holes, Richardson paused for several seconds and again replied: "No, I can't tell you that right now."


Richardson similarly declined to explain what the sheriff meant when he said last month that the investigation was aided by "some written evidence." The Cole County sheriff's office did not immediately return a call Thursday.

Those kinds of details might normally be included in a probable cause statement from sheriff's deputies or police as a basis for a prosecutor to file charges. But in Bustamante's case, there is no probable cause statement in the court file, because she was instead indicted by a grand jury.

Greater details of the crime also are included in Bustamante's juvenile court records, but those will remain closed under state law, said Cole County Juvenile Court Administrator Michael County.

No further details are expected to emerge at a Dec. 7 status hearing in Bustamante's case. It could be months, maybe even a year, before a trial at which witnesses would be called to explain the details and circumstances of the crime. But no trial — or testimony — would occur if Bustamante were to plead guilty to a charge.

Although he did not rule it out, Richardson said he wasn't inclined to agree to a plea on a charge of anything less than first-degree murder, which carries a sentence of life in prison without parole.


"Because of the nature of the case, there is not a lot of room to enter into pleas," he said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0daWk3sRLzLhXktLIXEETYccUTwD9C2TTJG0


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 19, 2009, 09:03:15 PM
Joy Behar Show  NOW  Nancy Grace
about this case!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 10:09:10 PM
Slaying suspect said hobby was 'killing people'

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — On an Internet site, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante listed her hobbies as "killing people" and "cutting." It may have sounded like a teenage exaggeration, but authorities say she fulfilled her words.

Even as new details emerge about the teenager charged with killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, many facts about the crime continued to be kept secret Thursday — and may never be released by authorities unless Bustamante goes to trial for murder.

Bustamante, who had been in juvenile custody since leading police to Elizabeth's body Oct. 23, was certified Wednesday as an adult and indicted on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action. She is accused of strangling Elizabeth, cutting her throat and stabbing her.

Online court records showed Thursday that a public defender assigned to represent Bustamante filed a motion seeking to have her placed in a state hospital for immediate mental health treatment.

On a YouTube profile viewed by The Associated Press, which has since been taken down, Bustamante listed her hobbies as "killing people" and "cutting." A year ago, Bustamante posted a video to the site in which she appears to intentionally shock herself on an electric fence near her home, then goads her two younger brothers into doing the same.

In court Wednesday, juvenile justice officials testified that Bustamante attempted to commit suicide in 2007 and had been receiving mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself.

A police officer testified that Bustamante confessed to digging two holes to be used as a grave, then killing Elizabeth five days later without provocation because she wanted to know what it felt like.

But repeated objections by Bustamante's juvenile justice attorney prevented the police officer from explaining why two holes were dug. Cole County prosecutor Mark Richardson also has declined to elaborate.

"I know that, but I cannot go into those details right now," Richardson said.

Asked if he could say whether Elizabeth's body was found in only one of those holes, Richardson paused for several seconds and again replied: "No, I can't tell you that right now."


Richardson similarly declined to explain what the sheriff meant when he said last month that the investigation was aided by "some written evidence." The Cole County sheriff's office did not immediately return a call Thursday.

Those kinds of details might normally be included in a probable cause statement from sheriff's deputies or police as a basis for a prosecutor to file charges. But in Bustamante's case, there is no probable cause statement in the court file, because she was instead indicted by a grand jury.

Greater details of the crime also are included in Bustamante's juvenile court records, but those will remain closed under state law, said Cole County Juvenile Court Administrator Michael County.

No further details are expected to emerge at a Dec. 7 status hearing in Bustamante's case. It could be months, maybe even a year, before a trial at which witnesses would be called to explain the details and circumstances of the crime. But no trial — or testimony — would occur if Bustamante were to plead guilty to a charge.

Although he did not rule it out, Richardson said he wasn't inclined to agree to a plea on a charge of anything less than first-degree murder, which carries a sentence of life in prison without parole.


"Because of the nature of the case, there is not a lot of room to enter into pleas," he said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0daWk3sRLzLhXktLIXEETYccUTwD9C2TTJG0

So, it wasn't a "mistake" or "misreporting" by a reporter that Richardson said he could not say if Elizabeth was buried in one grave. It was what was said. It speaks VOLUMES to me! Dear God in Heaven.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 10:10:50 PM
Joy Behar Show  NOW  Nancy Grace
about this case!!!!

Thanks. But sorry. I wouldn't watch Joy Behar's show if my deceased mother was on her show. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 10:17:51 PM
Joy Behar Show  NOW  Nancy Grace
about this case!!!!

Thanks. But sorry. I wouldn't watch Joy Behar's show if my deceased mother was on her show. JMO

You are my new BFF.  I hate Joy Behar with every ounce of my body.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 19, 2009, 10:45:05 PM
Joy Behar Show  NOW  Nancy Grace
about this case!!!!

Thanks. But sorry. I wouldn't watch Joy Behar's show if my deceased mother was on her show. JMO
Cannot.stand.Joy.Behar!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 19, 2009, 10:49:20 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297
So with that error now being taken care of, and that was quite a big error, perhaps the grandparents were helping LE not hindering anything.

yes, that changes a lot.


If she wasnt taken to a psych hospitol on Wednesday October 21st, I wonder why she didnt make it to school on Thursday.  Just a thought to throw out there.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 19, 2009, 11:03:31 PM
You didn't miss anything. No new details.  Do I detect a political bias on this site?  I hope not.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 19, 2009, 11:07:40 PM
kind of random, but I was looking at Smooth Criminal's latest MS about being a Juggalette 4 life with AlyssaApocal so I was googling around and found this...

http://alyssa-apocalypse.deviantart.com/

Do any of you think this is Alyssa B?  Kind of looks like her but Lord, all the eye liner and hair in the face and they all start looking alike to me after a while!   ::MonkeyConfused::
I do not believe that is her. jmo


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 19, 2009, 11:08:00 PM
You didn't miss anything. No new details.  Do I detect a political bias on this site?  I hope not.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

There is a political discussion thread as politics stay out of the missing persons forums.
Never been there myself as I am from Canada.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 19, 2009, 11:10:40 PM
You didn't miss anything. No new details.  Do I detect a political bias on this site?  I hope not.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


What did I miss????? I didn't see anything about politics posted on here....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 19, 2009, 11:30:12 PM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Just to clarify a few things, the sign for the day care has been down for a few months, not sure they have closed. Karen is still watching some children in the house, as of Tuesday this week. I have witnessed someone picking and dropping off their kids up to a few days ago. Kind of crazy why in the he!! someone would let her watch their kids.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 19, 2009, 11:32:33 PM
It may have been my misunderstanding. Several posters stated they would not watch Joy Behar and I figured it was her political persuasion.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 19, 2009, 11:34:29 PM
check end of Oct:

http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendID=447887851
Interesting. Thanks!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Sister on November 19, 2009, 11:35:18 PM
You didn't miss anything. No new details.  Do I detect a political bias on this site?  I hope not.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


What did I miss????? I didn't see anything about politics posted on here....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Fanny and New, my feeling about Joy have nothing to do with politics.  I just really do not care for her at all and will not watch her ever.
 :smt091


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 19, 2009, 11:39:43 PM
As far as the GPs going to STL on Oct 21 Weds night, I think that was a typo on the date, I bet it was LE taking her their Saturday Oct 24. It was my understanding AB went to school Thurs. but was caught outside with her BF that morning by a school counsler.

I really don't think LE focused on the neighbor (AB) until later Thursday or Friday morning. As close as Elizabeth's house is to a major highway, everyone thought it was an obduction case at first, not a murder, thus no reason to 'watch' the Brooke's home.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 19, 2009, 11:44:36 PM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Just to clarify a few things, the sign for the day care has been down for a few months, not sure they have closed. Karen is still watching some children in the house, as of Tuesday this week. I have witnessed someone picking and dropping off their kids up to a few days ago. Kind of crazy why in the he!! someone would let her watch their kids.





I don't really Karen, but IMO you can't judge parenting ability based of what a child did. Lord knows my parents were great, but I managed to do illegal crap (not quite as bad as murder) without them knowing, and I did it because I wanted to try new things. Depending on how all the other children (and KNP) are, it is likely that I would continue to let her raise my kids while I was at work.

JMHO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:53:21 PM
New Footnote:

A previous version of this story referenced Alyssa Bustamante being admitted to Hawthorn Children's Psychiatric Hospital on Wednesday, Oct. 21, that date was referenced during court testimony; however, juvenile court officials clarified that date to Saturday, Oct. 24.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297
So with that error now being taken care of, and that was quite a big error, perhaps the grandparents were helping LE not hindering anything.

yes, that changes a lot.


If she wasnt taken to a psych hospitol on Wednesday October 21st, I wonder why she didnt make it to school on Thursday.  Just a thought to throw out there.

I'm still wondering about Friday too. The Friday before was a holiday, so was there another on the next Friday, or did she go to school?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:54:39 PM
You didn't miss anything. No new details.  Do I detect a political bias on this site?  I hope not.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Because we are talking about Joy Behar?  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 19, 2009, 11:56:23 PM
It may have been my misunderstanding. Several posters stated they would not watch Joy Behar and I figured it was her political persuasion.  ::MonkeyAngel::

She grates my nerves with her snide attitude. Is that political?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 19, 2009, 11:59:23 PM
Good Evening Monkeys

I was lurking and as well poking around the internet. That Northern had posted earlier that "maybe" some info could be found on AB's Grandparents.
Karen S. Brooke Grandma of AB

Has anyone seen these court docs? It is a court case with AB's Grandmother for her to gain custody of Minor Child " I don't think I can put the name out" Idk.
The case is against Michelle B and Ceaser B, ( AB's parents) that Grandmother is taking guardianship of their female Child. But it is NOT AB and it is a female minor.

Case was in 07.  Here is the Link: https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/nameSearch.do

click on the blue     07AC-PR00029 
and go to Dockets Entries.
Then click on Find ( which is searching all Dates)
Then 6 pages of info will come up about the case itself.
I don't understand Who this is ? Does AB have another sister ( Minor) or is this AB's original name.   ::MonkeyEek::

snipped from page 4 of docket:

05/15/2007 - Hearing Held
   Petitioner in person and by counsel Browning. GAL Snider appears as well. Evidence adduced. Court records to be amended to reflect minors name is XXXXXXXXXX. Court finds that minor is in need of guardianship and natural parents are unwilling, unfit or anable to serve in that capacity. Petitioner is appointed as guardian for the minor child. GAL awarded fees of $ 150.00, same taxed to Petitioner as costs. Letters to issue


Maybe you all have found this info already. I don't understand Who this said could be?
I am confused.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 12:00:23 AM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Just to clarify a few things, the sign for the day care has been down for a few months, not sure they have closed. Karen is still watching some children in the house, as of Tuesday this week. I have witnessed someone picking and dropping off their kids up to a few days ago. Kind of crazy why in the he!! someone would let her watch their kids.





I don't really Karen, but IMO you can't judge parenting ability based of what a child did. Lord knows my parents were great, but I managed to do illegal crap (not quite as bad as murder) without them knowing, and I did it because I wanted to try new things. Depending on how all the other children (and KNP) are, it is likely that I would continue to let her raise my kids while I was at work.

JMHO

I take it you know Karen Brooke very well. Tell us about how wonderful she is. Do you by chance have a picture of her?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 12:03:56 AM
Holy Crap is Ceaser AB's Bio Dad? Or is her Bio Dad this guy ??

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

snipped:
Request for Search of Putative Father Registry, as to Luis Alvarado, filed

could AB had a different name prior to being Alyssa ??  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 12:11:43 AM
Holy Crap is Ceaser AB's Bio Dad? Or is her Bio Dad this guy ??

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

snipped:
Request for Search of Putative Father Registry, as to Luis Alvarado, filed

could AB had a different name prior to being Alyssa ??  ::MonkeyConfused::

No, Alvarado is the last name of the half sister who is about six that Karen Brooke also filed for custody.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 12:15:40 AM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Just to clarify a few things, the sign for the day care has been down for a few months, not sure they have closed. Karen is still watching some children in the house, as of Tuesday this week. I have witnessed someone picking and dropping off their kids up to a few days ago. Kind of crazy why in the he!! someone would let her watch their kids.





I don't really Karen, but IMO you can't judge parenting ability based of what a child did. Lord knows my parents were great, but I managed to do illegal crap (not quite as bad as murder) without them knowing, and I did it because I wanted to try new things. Depending on how all the other children (and KNP) are, it is likely that I would continue to let her raise my kids while I was at work.

JMHO

I take it you know Karen Brooke very well. Tell us about how wonderful she is. Do you by chance have a picture of her?

Actually I don't know her at all. I was just saying. I love how noone here is allowed to post their opinion, unless it is the opinion of the general population. I don't understand why everyone always has to blame an adult in these types of cases. Take the Loveless case for example, everyone wanted to blame her parents at first. Fact is that kids sometimes do heinous things regardless of parenting.


But you seem like the type of person that wants to crucify every parent that has a child that does something illegal. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 12:24:53 AM
Holy Crap is Ceaser AB's Bio Dad? Or is her Bio Dad this guy ??

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

snipped:
Request for Search of Putative Father Registry, as to Luis Alvarado, filed

could AB had a different name prior to being Alyssa ??  ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi Deenie.  I posted the second set of guardianship docs last night for Exxx,  I took her name out though.  She is the little girl the monster went over to the house to play with,  Her bio daddy is not Caesar  like the other 3 kids.  Her bio daddy is Luis. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 12:28:29 AM
Holy Crap is Ceaser AB's Bio Dad? Or is her Bio Dad this guy ??

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

snipped:
Request for Search of Putative Father Registry, as to Luis Alvarado, filed

could AB had a different name prior to being Alyssa ??  ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi Deenie.  I posted the second set of guardianship docs last night for Exxx,  I took her name out though.  She is the little girl the monster went over to the house to play with,  Her bio daddy is not Caesar  like the other 3 kids.  Her bio daddy is Luis. 
I totally forgot   ::MonkeyShocked:: that she had a little sister was thinking of her Older Sister was the only female.
Gosh this family has me topsy turvy.  So from the minor's name listed it appears that possibly Exxxx has a different Mom than AB. But they share the same Bio Dad??? 

OMG Northern this is just Crazy ... all of it. Btw I was lurking earlier " Thank You" for all your posts of pressers and vids/news. You done Good. 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 20, 2009, 12:30:52 AM
Hello All :) Hope everyone had a wonderful day..

Just caught up on the posts I missed from today...

I do NOT think that the Grandparents should be held accountable at ALL. Alyssa's PARENTS had her.. not her Grandparents. Her grandparents probably did they best they could do. I can not IMAGINE having to deal with a child like that! Honestly, I don't understand the make-up and dressing like that....this sounds terrible but I was a cheerleader and preppy..my sister played sports and was preppy..We never had the URGE to dress like that...none of my friends did either. Even if I wore too much black my mom would make me change! I DO feel like her Grandparents had no idea how to handle her but what could they do? Clearly, they seeked help. I feel like the person Alyssa was trying to be was a badass with no remorse...as for her "friends"...why on EARTH would you want to claim such a monster as a friend!!! I would be EMBARRASSED to call her a friend- NOT to mention scared that I had ever spoken or spent time with a killer!! Overall, I am SICK of people (court-wise) caring about monsters like this girl!! Harming herself?!?! OBVIOUSLY!! I would harm myself too if I knew I would be stuck in jail the rest of my life with other heartless people!! She's an attention whore who deserves to be treated like an ADULT- fully!!

Vent.. done.. haha


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 12:34:00 AM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Just to clarify a few things, the sign for the day care has been down for a few months, not sure they have closed. Karen is still watching some children in the house, as of Tuesday this week. I have witnessed someone picking and dropping off their kids up to a few days ago. Kind of crazy why in the he!! someone would let her watch their kids.





I don't really Karen, but IMO you can't judge parenting ability based of what a child did. Lord knows my parents were great, but I managed to do illegal crap (not quite as bad as murder) without them knowing, and I did it because I wanted to try new things. Depending on how all the other children (and KNP) are, it is likely that I would continue to let her raise my kids while I was at work.

JMHO

I take it you know Karen Brooke very well. Tell us about how wonderful she is. Do you by chance have a picture of her?

Actually I don't know her at all. I was just saying. I love how noone here is allowed to post their opinion, unless it is the opinion of the general population. I don't understand why everyone always has to blame an adult in these types of cases. Take the Loveless case for example, everyone wanted to blame her parents at first. Fact is that kids sometimes do heinous things regardless of parenting.


But you seem like the type of person that wants to crucify every parent that has a child that does something illegal. JMO

All opinions are welcome. It would be very boring if we all thought the same and we would miss things that different perspectives bring to the table.   We are all curious about Karen as other than a few minor traffic tickets and her 3 marriages it has been hard to find out about her or Gary.  It may give us insight on the dynamics of the house or may not.  She is no stranger to dealing with kids going down a hard path as her own daughter has had issues and now her granddaughter.   You would think that she would see the signs the second time around.  I do not believe that is crucifying her. I have not seen any one monkey crucifying every parent with a child in trouble with the law.  Justice for Elizabeth is why we are here.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 12:36:36 AM
Holy Crap is Ceaser AB's Bio Dad? Or is her Bio Dad this guy ??

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

snipped:
Request for Search of Putative Father Registry, as to Luis Alvarado, filed

could AB had a different name prior to being Alyssa ??  ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi Deenie.  I posted the second set of guardianship docs last night for Exxx,  I took her name out though.  She is the little girl the monster went over to the house to play with,  Her bio daddy is not Caesar  like the other 3 kids.  Her bio daddy is Luis. 
I totally forgot   ::MonkeyShocked:: that she had a little sister was thinking of her Older Sister was the only female.
Gosh this family has me topsy turvy.  So from the minor's name listed it appears that possibly Exxxx has a different Mom than AB. But they share the same Bio Dad??? 

OMG Northern this is just Crazy ... all of it. Btw I was lurking earlier " Thank You" for all your posts of pressers and vids/news. You done Good. 



Michelle is the mother of all 4 kids.  The twin boys and Alyssa are from Caesar.  The 6 year old is from Luis.  One Mom two baby daddys.   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 12:38:55 AM

Actually I don't know her at all. I was just saying. I love how noone here is allowed to post their opinion, unless it is the opinion of the general population. I don't understand why everyone always has to blame an adult in these types of cases. Take the Loveless case for example, everyone wanted to blame her parents at first. Fact is that kids sometimes do heinous things regardless of parenting.


But you seem like the type of person that wants to crucify every parent that has a child that does something illegal. JMO

I guess you don't understand how it works here. We don't personally attack other monkeys. So I will take offense at what I "seem like." I thought you knew Karen, and could give us some insight on her. I would really like to know what makes her tick and what she looks like.

I am on Elizabeth's side in this. And whoever allowed this to happen to her, or helped her, or enabled her, let the chips fall where they may. I have not seen much involvement in Alyssa's life other that to scoot her off to a Psyc facility when problem erupt. I could be wrong. So prove it!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 12:49:07 AM
NORTHERN, nanners back.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 12:51:53 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.

BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:10:50 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.



BLOCKED WEBSITE

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 01:15:24 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.




BLOCKED WEBSITE

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 01:26:04 AM
My bad I thought that Kat was Ab's Sister - is her Aunt. My Error.

I just found AB's Mom's birthdate - she was born in 1978 and AB was born in 1994.
Mom was 15/16 yrs of age when she had Alyssa. 

From the Cole County website - it is a PDF - the indictment Press Release for AB

http://www.colecopa.com/news/091118%20indictment.pdf

Says she has two charges. Count I Murder in the 1st Degree, Class A Felony Punishable up to Life no Parole
Count II Armed Criminal Action "Unclassified" Felony punishable 3 yrs an up.

What that for her carrying a concealed weapon with intent to cause bodily harm??
Does anyone know what the second count is ??



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 01:29:00 AM
Maybe Fanny that Grandmother is the Rock of the " Group" the Knot so to speak.

And possibly Grand Dad "broke" on this one and could not appear in the court. Seems that when anything horrific or god awful strikes a family - The Woman is always left standing. The Men Bail because they can. Women can't because they feel it is their duty to support others.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:32:40 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.



BLOCKED WEBSITE

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Alyssa had an older Aunt living in the house with her. A daughter of Karen's. I misspoke. She is in her twenties and has just recently married and did live there with her new husband. The links have been posted on the thread. And Alyssa did have a half sister, younger than she.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:33:47 AM
Maybe Fanny that Grandmother is the Rock of the " Group" the Knot so to speak.

And possibly Grand Dad "broke" on this one and could not appear in the court. Seems that when anything horrific or god awful strikes a family - The Woman is always left standing. The Men Bail because they can. Women can't because they feel it is their duty to support others.



The step grandfather was not "blood" and maybe felt he has no obligation. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:34:57 AM
My bad I thought that Kat was Ab's Sister - is her Aunt. My Error.

I just found AB's Mom's birthdate - she was born in 1978 and AB was born in 1994.
Mom was 15/16 yrs of age when she had Alyssa. 

From the Cole County website - it is a PDF - the indictment Press Release for AB

http://www.colecopa.com/news/091118%20indictment.pdf

Says she has two charges. Count I Murder in the 1st Degree, Class A Felony Punishable up to Life no Parole
Count II Armed Criminal Action "Unclassified" Felony punishable 3 yrs an up.

What that for her carrying a concealed weapon with intent to cause bodily harm??
Does anyone know what the second count is ??



Yes it was for the knife, and I doubt if it was concealed for very long.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:36:11 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.



BLOCKED WEBSITE

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Who is Michelle?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:37:34 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.

BLOCKED WEBSITE

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Who is Michelle?

Never mind. I answered my own question.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 01:39:47 AM
My bad I thought that Kat was Ab's Sister - is her Aunt. My Error.

I just found AB's Mom's birthdate - she was born in 1978 and AB was born in 1994.
Mom was 15/16 yrs of age when she had Alyssa. 

From the Cole County website - it is a PDF - the indictment Press Release for AB

http://www.colecopa.com/news/091118%20indictment.pdf

Says she has two charges. Count I Murder in the 1st Degree, Class A Felony Punishable up to Life no Parole
Count II Armed Criminal Action "Unclassified" Felony punishable 3 yrs an up.

What that for her carrying a concealed weapon with intent to cause bodily harm??
Does anyone know what the second count is ??



Yes it was for the knife, and I doubt if it was concealed for very long.

I found the answer. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000015.HTM
Armed criminal action, defined, penalty.
((( first offense)))
571.015. 1. Except as provided in subsection 4 of this section, any person who commits any felony under the laws of this state by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon is also guilty of the crime of armed criminal action and, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment by the department of corrections and human resources for a term of not less than three years. The punishment imposed pursuant to this subsection shall be in addition to any punishment provided by law for the crime committed by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon. No person convicted under this subsection shall be eligible for parole, probation, conditional release or suspended imposition or execution of sentence for a period of three calendar years

---
You start thinking omg could their be an incident of error by the courts/atty/LE that the charges get fuddled and she gets off with a lesser sentence. Sometimes it happens, we all it has happened. That's why I was interested in exactly what does this 2nd count charge mean.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:40:04 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.

BLOCKED WEBSITE

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Who is Michelle?

Michelle is Alyssa's mother and half sister of Kat P-N.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 01:40:10 AM
Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Just to clarify a few things, the sign for the day care has been down for a few months, not sure they have closed. Karen is still watching some children in the house, as of Tuesday this week. I have witnessed someone picking and dropping off their kids up to a few days ago. Kind of crazy why in the he!! someone would let her watch their kids.





I don't really Karen, but IMO you can't judge parenting ability based of what a child did. Lord knows my parents were great, but I managed to do illegal crap (not quite as bad as murder) without them knowing, and I did it because I wanted to try new things. Depending on how all the other children (and KNP) are, it is likely that I would continue to let her raise my kids while I was at work.

JMHO

I take it you know Karen Brooke very well. Tell us about how wonderful she is. Do you by chance have a picture of her?

Actually I don't know her at all. I was just saying. I love how noone here is allowed to post their opinion, unless it is the opinion of the general population. I don't understand why everyone always has to blame an adult in these types of cases. Take the Loveless case for example, everyone wanted to blame her parents at first. Fact is that kids sometimes do heinous things regardless of parenting.


But you seem like the type of person that wants to crucify every parent that has a child that does something illegal. JMO


Shinju - If they were so responsible why did they buy clothing for Alyssa and her brothers going back 2 years ago at least with skulls and goth styles? I certainly would not allow that especially since they were so "worried" about her adopting gothic styles.  Parents have a lot of influence. My son got into something when he was 16. I planted spyware on his computer and tracked his im's. Found out a lot and put an end to it. There is a lot that can be done, including sending her to a private academy.  They appear to have the money to do that. I explored that option myself.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:43:29 AM
I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.

http://www.**/articles/2009/11/19/news_local/doc5a42local03bustamanteprofile09.txt

Two snips of interest:

David Cook, Cole County's chief juvenile officer, said Bustamante had a “higher IQ” and was “able to do her school work if she put her mind to it,” but who told family and counselors she was “bored at school.”
Cook also described the 15-year-old as “articulate and able to communicate clearly,” but also was “clever in the way she phrased things,” including leading her grandparents to believe she was going to a concert at a Jefferson City church when she really was traveling with a friend to a concert in St. Louis.

Other court records show Bustamante's mother, Michelle Bustamante, lived in Jefferson City public housing in 2005 and 2007, then in Lake Ozark in 2008 and in Crocker earlier this year.
Those records show the mother had some traffic tickets, legal battles over rent issues and three criminal convictions in misdemeanor cases - Miller County convictions in 2008 for driving while intoxicated and operating a vehicle in a careless and imprudent manner, and a Sept. 29, 2009, conviction in Dallas County for possessing less than 35 grams of marijuana.


I am sure that had to bring issues up in the House & Family that " Mom" was arrested yet again. Was just three weeks later that AB killed Elizabeth.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Who is Michelle?

Michelle is Alyssa's mother and half sister of Kat P-N.

I know. I had a brain fart for a minute.   ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:45:48 AM
My bad I thought that Kat was Ab's Sister - is her Aunt. My Error.

I just found AB's Mom's birthdate - she was born in 1978 and AB was born in 1994.
Mom was 15/16 yrs of age when she had Alyssa. 

From the Cole County website - it is a PDF - the indictment Press Release for AB

http://www.colecopa.com/news/091118%20indictment.pdf

Says she has two charges. Count I Murder in the 1st Degree, Class A Felony Punishable up to Life no Parole
Count II Armed Criminal Action "Unclassified" Felony punishable 3 yrs an up.

What that for her carrying a concealed weapon with intent to cause bodily harm??
Does anyone know what the second count is ??



Yes it was for the knife, and I doubt if it was concealed for very long.

I found the answer. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000015.HTM
Armed criminal action, defined, penalty.
((( first offense)))
571.015. 1. Except as provided in subsection 4 of this section, any person who commits any felony under the laws of this state by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon is also guilty of the crime of armed criminal action and, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment by the department of corrections and human resources for a term of not less than three years. The punishment imposed pursuant to this subsection shall be in addition to any punishment provided by law for the crime committed by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon. No person convicted under this subsection shall be eligible for parole, probation, conditional release or suspended imposition or execution of sentence for a period of three calendar years

---
You start thinking omg could their be an incident of error by the courts/atty/LE that the charges get fuddled and she gets off with a lesser sentence. Sometimes it happens, we all it has happened. That's why I was interested in exactly what does this 2nd count charge mean.



I am just sorry they have not piled on more charges. It is obvious that Missouri doesn't have the stomach or will to do it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:46:15 AM
I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 01:50:00 AM
Hi KarenK
We have not met. So I say Hello to You.

This is sort of off topic but not really. I was watching HLN a short while back and they were talking about exactly what you just said about your son. This gal called in to talk to Mike G. And she said that her 12 year son was friends with the neighbor boy. And within the time spent together they were downloading porn from his Xbox. That they had hooked it up to the Neighbor Boys Home Pc and were downloading Porn and watching it. All Wireless. Can you imagine. This Mom did not have a computer in her house yet her son was watching Porn on their TV via wireless - through his Xbox. 

That what my daughter 19 told me too is that on her cell phone she can access her Face book and did ( with her myspace which she no longer uses) all her social accounts and does not have to login in at all. She goes through her phone, Again all wireless. I don't know how to do it myself.  It is all through her phone and aaah I feel so inept.

I just wonder how Savvy AB was with all her electronics and what really bothers is the speculation that AB lured EO with a call to her Cell phone back to the woods.

Makes you wonder.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:56:07 AM
Hi KarenK
We have not met. So I say Hello to You.

This is sort of off topic but not really. I was watching HLN a short while back and they were talking about exactly what you just said about your son. This gal called in to talk to Mike G. And she said that her 12 year son was friends with the neighbor boy. And within the time spent together they were downloading porn from his Xbox. That they had hooked it up to the Neighbor Boys Home Pc and were downloading Porn and watching it. All Wireless. Can you imagine. This Mom did not have a computer in her house yet her son was watching Porn on their TV via wireless - through his Xbox. 

That what my daughter 19 told me too is that on her cell phone she can access her Face book and did ( with her myspace which she no longer uses) all her social accounts and does not have to login in at all. She goes through her phone, Again all wireless. I don't know how to do it myself.  It is all through her phone and aaah I feel so inept.

I just wonder how Savvy AB was with all her electronics and what really bothers is the speculation that AB lured EO with a call to her Cell phone back to the woods.

Makes you wonder.


I think Alyssa was very electronic savvy. Her YouTubes, Snap Sings, My Space. Twitter have all been posted. She had a cell phone, I am sure with all the bells and whistles. And it was reported by the media today that Elizabeth was on the way home, and Alyssa called her to come back.

Sorry, but I answered a question intended for KarenK.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:58:05 AM
I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?

My impression is as little as possible. What befuddles me is that the first missing report we heard said the the Grandfather had been the one to send Elizabeth home. That has always rattled me, and made me wonder what was really going on at the house that night.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 01:59:08 AM
I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?
Speaking of Father figure and all. Which is important for a child to have a male figure. Does not have to be Bio Dad. (( we all know that)) but when they showed on some of the news vids that were posted tonight here. They showed AB's families house and land, horses etc. They showed the house and how far back it sits off the road. What a LONG Driveway Holy Moly. I thought geez that really is not just a house. Its almost a working farm. Thinking of all the equipment/man power to maintain that property and the animals as well. Not to mention the money to maintain such a property and pay the mortgage/bills/and keep up with 4 growing kids... somebody had to be making some bones to keep all that going.

Maybe the Poor Guy wants to run away from HOME by now. I listened to the reporter state that the horses are gone. I wonder if they gave them up? or sent them away for their protection.  Poor Horses.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 02:00:16 AM
Hi KarenK
We have not met. So I say Hello to You.

This is sort of off topic but not really. I was watching HLN a short while back and they were talking about exactly what you just said about your son. This gal called in to talk to Mike G. And she said that her 12 year son was friends with the neighbor boy. And within the time spent together they were downloading porn from his Xbox. That they had hooked it up to the Neighbor Boys Home Pc and were downloading Porn and watching it. All Wireless. Can you imagine. This Mom did not have a computer in her house yet her son was watching Porn on their TV via wireless - through his Xbox. 

That what my daughter 19 told me too is that on her cell phone she can access her Face book and did ( with her myspace which she no longer uses) all her social accounts and does not have to login in at all. She goes through her phone, Again all wireless. I don't know how to do it myself.  It is all through her phone and aaah I feel so inept.

I just wonder how Savvy AB was with all her electronics and what really bothers is the speculation that AB lured EO with a call to her Cell phone back to the woods.

Makes you wonder.


I think Alyssa was very electronic savvy. Her YouTubes, Snap Sings, My Space. Twitter have all been posted. She had a cell phone, I am sure with all the bells and whistles. And it was reported by the media today that Elizabeth was on the way home, and Alyssa called her to come back.

Sorry, but I answered a question intended for KarenK.
Northern you can answer anything U want  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 02:00:35 AM
NORTHERN, I think the tea bag is working. I have sacrificed an Earl Grey black tea bag, so I may be able to get some sleep after all.

So I will say good night now, and I hope everyone has a very pleasant rest of the night/morning.
 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 02:02:59 AM
NORTHERN, I think the tea bag is working. I have sacrificed an Earl Grey black tea bag, so I may be able to get some sleep after all.

So I will say good night now, and I hope everyone has a very pleasant rest of the night/morning.
 ::MonkeyAngel::
I found this awesome Tea Fanny - Green tea with acai berries - It is YUM .......
Sleep Well Ms. Fanny  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 02:11:07 AM
I am off to bed as well.  Good night and God Bless.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 20, 2009, 02:11:47 AM
I am off to bed as well.  Good night and God Bless.

 ::ElfMonkey:: Me too Good Night Ms Northern ............... ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 20, 2009, 02:24:21 AM
Joy Behar Show  NOW  Nancy Grace
about this case!!!!

Thanks. But sorry. I wouldn't watch Joy Behar's show if my deceased mother was on her show. JMO

I can definitely do without Joy Behar!  However... I did watch the part of it in which NG appeared.... she is on the warpath about these two latest horrific crimes.... as are we all... I am having difficulty sleeping at night for the worry that there are people like this in the world and wondering how many there are..... ack!  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 20, 2009, 02:27:17 AM
It may have been my misunderstanding. Several posters stated they would not watch Joy Behar and I figured it was her political persuasion.  ::MonkeyAngel::

My dislike for the Joy Behar show has nada to do with her politics.  She just talks with no meaning and blathers on and on.  Most of the time, it appears she is just scripted and doesn't really know what she is talking about.  LOL... JMO of course.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 02:29:24 AM
 ::MonkeyAngel::So nice to meet you Deenie.   And Fannie Mae and Northern are some of the best here on Scared Monkeys. They can ALWAYS answer for me!!!!!  I don't know but they had taken her cellphone away. They could also not pay for Text messaging internet on the phone.That is ALL parental responsibility since they are paying the bills.   I am sorry but parents have to  be alert and in this case they already know this is an emotionally volatile child. All the more reason to monitor her very closely.  She should never have been alone with her brothers or sister or their friends unless adults were nearby. OBVIOUSLY  that was NOT the case.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 02:38:58 AM
Good night all! By the way Fannie Mae you would have enjoyed the JB show because Nancy really put her in her place. BAWAAAAAAAAAAH


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 20, 2009, 02:45:31 AM
Good night all! By the way Fannie Mae you would have enjoyed the JB show because Nancy really put her in her place. BAWAAAAAAAAAAH

Yes she did!  And I enjoyed every lovely minute of it!  ::MonkeySkate::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 09:30:57 AM
It may have been my misunderstanding. Several posters stated they would not watch Joy Behar and I figured it was her political persuasion.  ::MonkeyAngel::

OH, ha ha....I have never liked her.  She is, IMO, a whiney weirdo.  Just the sound of her voice annoys me!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 09:41:11 AM
My bad I thought that Kat was Ab's Sister - is her Aunt. My Error.

I just found AB's Mom's birthdate - she was born in 1978 and AB was born in 1994.
Mom was 15/16 yrs of age when she had Alyssa. 

From the Cole County website - it is a PDF - the indictment Press Release for AB

http://www.colecopa.com/news/091118%20indictment.pdf

Says she has two charges. Count I Murder in the 1st Degree, Class A Felony Punishable up to Life no Parole
Count II Armed Criminal Action "Unclassified" Felony punishable 3 yrs an up.

What that for her carrying a concealed weapon with intent to cause bodily harm??
Does anyone know what the second count is ??



Armed Criminal Action is when you use a weapon (knife, gun, etc.) to forced someone to do something or to cause bodily harm with the weapon.  Like if you robbed a bank with a gun, even if you didn't hurt someone, you would be charged with armed criminal action because you used the gun to force someone to do something. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 09:46:38 AM
And I know this because a) I live in MO b) I have worked on murder cases (defending the defendant)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 20, 2009, 10:08:31 AM
And I know this because a) I live in MO b) I have worked on murder cases (defending the defendant)
Thanks


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 20, 2009, 10:26:10 AM
And I know this because a) I live in MO b) I have worked on murder cases (defending the defendant)

Hi Fellow Missourian ::MonkeyCheer4::  Are you an attorney?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 10:56:29 AM
Olten family reacts to Bustamante indictment

COLE COUNTY, MO -- The family of murder victim Elizabeth Olten says they're pleased with the judge's decision to try 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante as an adult.

Two memorial funds have been set up for the Olten family. One is in the name of Elizabeth, the other an educational fund for her brother.

Donations can be sent to P.O. Box 1688, Jefferson City, 65109.


http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380051


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 10:58:39 AM
Mo. teenager sent to mental hospital while facing charges in death of 9-year-old girl

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old Missouri girl has been sent to a mental hospital after her attorney said she showed signs of severe depression and anxiety.

A Cole County judge ordered 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante to be taken to the Fulton State Hospital for up to 96 hours. The teenager had been held at the Morgan County jail since being indicted Wednesday on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Elizabeth Olten on Oct. 21 because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill. They say Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/sns-ap-mo--missouri-girlslain,0,1789243.story


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:00:56 AM
Mo. teen murder suspect sent to psych hospital
By DAVID A. LIEB (AP) – 28 minutes ago

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old neighbor was sent to a mental hospital after her attorney said she showed signs of severe depression and anxiety.

A judge ordered 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante to be taken to the Fulton State Hospital for up to 96 hours, but it was unclear exactly when that clock started. The order by Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce is dated Thursday but did not have a time stamp; it was released Friday.

Bustamante had been held at the Morgan County jail since being indicted Wednesday as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action for the Oct. 21 death of Elizabeth Olten.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut Elizbeth's throat because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. They say Bustamante confessed and led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

During a court hearing Wednesday, a juvenile justice officer testified that Bustamante had attempted suicide two years ago and had received both inpatient and outpatient mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself. Her juvenile defense attorney said Bustamante also had attempted to cut herself with her own fingernails while being held in juvenile custody after Elizabeth's death.

Public defender Jan King cited the previous suicide attempt in a court document Thursday while stating that Bustamante was "demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety" and had been under a suicide watch at the jail.

Bustamante needs "immediate psychological treatment" to "assess her current mental state and to prevent the possibility that she may harm herself," King said in the motion requesting her transfer.

A not guilty plea was entered by a judge on Bustamante's behalf during her initial appearance Wednesday in adult court. If Bustamante is convicted of first-degree murder, she would face a sentence of life in prison without parole.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0daWk3sRLzLhXktLIXEETYccUTwD9C3BBV80


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:03:11 AM
Welcome to Fulton State Hospital
 

Fulton State Hospital can claim the distinction of being the oldest public mental health facility west of the Mississippi River, having admitted its first patient in 1851. The treatment and care of persons with mental illnesses has changed greatly during the last century and a half. Throughout the years, the hospital's philosophy has remained constant -- to provide quality care to Missourians in a manner that respects the dignity of the individual with a goal of returning the individual to a full and active role in the community. Fulton State Hospital is a 496-bed facility accredited by the Joint Commission and certified by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS).

http://www.dmh.mo.gov/fulton/



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 11:03:43 AM
And I know this because a) I live in MO b) I have worked on murder cases (defending the defendant)

Hi Fellow Missourian ::MonkeyCheer4::  Are you an attorney?

Not an attorney, have worked for an attorney and delved into criminal justice :)  After working for the "bad guys" it was clear that I was meant to be on the other side...lol


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 20, 2009, 11:05:27 AM
Thanks Northern Rose, I figured that is what would have happened being admitted to a mental health facility, the jail also didn't want the liability of her harming herself, this way she will be watched and treated.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:07:20 AM
Fulton State Hospital
Medical Jobs in MissouriFulton, Missouri

600 East 5th Street
Fulton, MO 65251

General Information
Eligible to Participate in Medicare And/Or Medicaid: Yes
In Compliance with Program Requirements:  Yes
Accreditation:  JCAHO
Participates in Medicare, Medicaid, Or Both:  Medicare & Medicaid
Current Survey Date:  07/17/2003
Total Beds 484
Total Certified Beds:  50

http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/hospital/Missouri/Fulton_State_Hospital.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:11:43 AM
Thanks Northern Rose, I figured that is what would have happened being admitted to a mental health facility, the jail also didn't want the liability of her harming herself, this way she will be watched and treated.

I doubt she is having anxiety over killing Elizabeth.  I hope this being a nice old facility it not restful.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:13:39 AM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:15:56 AM
Spread out facility



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:20:39 AM




BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:22:50 AM
Images of some of the buildings at Fulton State Hospital

http://cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=any&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=/msaphotos&CISOBOX1=Fulton


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 20, 2009, 11:27:42 AM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 20, 2009, 11:34:04 AM
I bet she is suffering from severe depression and anxiety, she KNOWS she is in trouble, if I were in here shoes, I'd be suffering from those too.  I think it is pathetic the way the worded it, so what, if she is anxious and sad, I mean, really!  I have a friend that works at that hospital, I have asked him to do some digging around.   ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 20, 2009, 11:38:48 AM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.

State hospitals are not known to be fun places....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 20, 2009, 11:47:56 AM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.

State hospitals are not known to be fun places....
Actually I'm sort of confused...is the monster in a state facility or is she in jail? Last I heard she was in jail in another county.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:51:05 AM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.

I they can get a DR to say her mental state is not fit she may just get away with this.  The one article yesterday said she was exceptionally bright and sneaky.  That she worded things just the right way to get what she wanted.  The example was when her Grandparents thought she was going to the church for a youth function and she ended up in St. Louis for a concert.  My gut is telling me she is manipulating right now so she can get out of doing time in jail.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:53:18 AM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.

State hospitals are not known to be fun places....
Actually I'm sort of confused...is the monster in a state facility or is she in jail? Last I heard she was in jail in another county.

She was moved from Morgan County Jail to Fulton State Hospital.  The articles are a page back.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:54:30 AM
I bet she is suffering from severe depression and anxiety, she KNOWS she is in trouble, if I were in here shoes, I'd be suffering from those too.  I think it is pathetic the way the worded it, so what, if she is anxious and sad, I mean, really!  I have a friend that works at that hospital, I have asked him to do some digging around.   ::MonkeyTongue::

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 20, 2009, 12:00:56 PM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.

I they can get a DR to say her mental state is not fit she may just get away with this.  The one article yesterday said she was exceptionally bright and sneaky.  That she worded things just the right way to get what she wanted.  The example was when her Grandparents thought she was going to the church for a youth function and she ended up in St. Louis for a concert.  My gut is telling me she is manipulating right now so she can get out of doing time in jail.
Oh I see thanks Northern. Yeah she seems to be very sneaky and seems to know how to work the system...but I think her luck is running out. She is going to find out that the world don't evolve around her.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SuzieQ on November 20, 2009, 12:04:58 PM
I bet she is suffering from severe depression and anxiety, she KNOWS she is in trouble, if I were in here shoes, I'd be suffering from those too.  I think it is pathetic the way the worded it, so what, if she is anxious and sad, I mean, really!  I have a friend that works at that hospital, I have asked him to do some digging around.   ::MonkeyTongue::



I hope that your friend knows that if he releases any information about a patient he will lose his job.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 20, 2009, 12:17:34 PM
He won't give me any information that would compromise his job or the case, and I wouldn't ask him too. I was wanting him to give me more information on the type of setting she is in and what the ins and outs of the mental game. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 12:24:42 PM
I bet she is suffering from severe depression and anxiety, she KNOWS she is in trouble, if I were in here shoes, I'd be suffering from those too.  I think it is pathetic the way the worded it, so what, if she is anxious and sad, I mean, really!  I have a friend that works at that hospital, I have asked him to do some digging around.   ::MonkeyTongue::



I hope that your friend knows that if he releases any information about a patient he will lose his job.

Sorry but I have to say this.........I am sure the employee is quite aware of his duties and an employee and also, I am sure the poster isn't meaning that they will ask for information that would compromise his job.  Seems obvious to me, but maybe no others.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 20, 2009, 12:26:32 PM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.

State hospitals are not known to be fun places....
That is an understatement, don't know what would be worse, jail or a state hospital.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 20, 2009, 12:27:26 PM
I bet she is suffering from severe depression and anxiety, she KNOWS she is in trouble, if I were in here shoes, I'd be suffering from those too.  I think it is pathetic the way the worded it, so what, if she is anxious and sad, I mean, really!  I have a friend that works at that hospital, I have asked him to do some digging around.   ::MonkeyTongue::



I hope that your friend knows that if he releases any information about a patient he will lose his job.

Sorry but I have to say this.........I am sure the employee is quite aware of his duties and an employee and also, I am sure the poster isn't meaning that they will ask for information that would compromise his job.  Seems obvious to me, but maybe no others.
I was thinking the same thing! u beat me to it lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:04:37 PM
Good night all! By the way Fannie Mae you would have enjoyed the JB show because Nancy really put her in her place. BAWAAAAAAAAAAH

I'm glad she did. I'll take your word for it!  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 20, 2009, 01:07:13 PM
I am not aware of the modern day State Hospitals...someone posted which would be worse...what do yall think?? I am curious. I only know about the old time State Hospitals with shocking patients, etc but I can imagine it would be scary hearing people scream all day and being around looney people....

then again being in jail with scary, heartless killers... also, scary!

I would be having the WORST anxiety!!

Which is worse? What are modern day State Hospitals like?!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:08:22 PM
Alyssa Bustamante: A Case Study in Why Not to Let Your Kids Go "Emo"?

The 15-year-old from outside Jefferson City is accused of digging a grave and then strangling and stabbing to death her nine-year-old neighbor because, according to police, Bustamante "wanted to know what it felt like" to kill someone.

Bustamante is clearly a f@cked up kid. She suffers depression, routinely cuts herself and tried to commit suicide two years ago. But did you also know that she is "emo"?

What is emo, you ask?

Thankfully we have Channel 5 (KSDK) to explain.
If you missed station's lead story last night on the definition and (possible perils) of the emo lifestyle, you missed some unbelievably earnest -- and unintentionally comedic -- reporting.

Check out the video clip after the jump...

VIDEO

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2009/11/alyssa_bustamante_a_case_study_in_why_not_to_let_your_kids_go_emo.php


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:13:08 PM
I bet she is suffering from severe depression and anxiety, she KNOWS she is in trouble, if I were in here shoes, I'd be suffering from those too.  I think it is pathetic the way the worded it, so what, if she is anxious and sad, I mean, really!  I have a friend that works at that hospital, I have asked him to do some digging around.   ::MonkeyTongue::

 ::MonkeyAngel::
::MonkeyDevil2:: ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:24:54 PM
I am not aware of the modern day State Hospitals...someone posted which would be worse...what do yall think?? I am curious. I only know about the old time State Hospitals with shocking patients, etc but I can imagine it would be scary hearing people scream all day and being around looney people....

then again being in jail with scary, heartless killers... also, scary!

I would be having the WORST anxiety!!

Which is worse? What are modern day State Hospitals like?!

I guess Alyssa should have thought about that before taking a knife to Elizabeth after digging two holes. Her life was so terrible at home so now she is in a state mental institute and charged with Murder One.

I am sure that she knew just how to "act" to get put in a mental facility and not in jail. She has been doing her performance for several years. She might be thinking right about now jail was better. And maybe being in the big house on the hill wasn't so bad after all. But she is clearly getting what she wanted, ATTENTION!! UNDEVIDED  ATTENTION. Be careful what you wish for Alyssa.

I am sure modern day mental institutes are better now than they were. But it is nothing like her cushy Pathway's type facilities that she has been in before, with all the little bells and whistles to keep her entertained. This is a place where they put people who have no other way to pay for the nicer places, or that are declared insane by the courts, or are put there, such as she, for evaluation by the LE.

Whoops! Of course, I forgot. She was on Prozac. I am sure that some slick sleezy high priced lawyer will soon be on the scene. She couldn't possibly just be an evil little rebellious teenager that just wanted to kill someone to see what it felt like. Oh no, it was the Prozac made her do it.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:30:02 PM
Mo. teenager sent to mental hospital while facing charges in death of 9-year-old girl

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old Missouri girl has been sent to a mental hospital after her attorney said she showed signs of severe depression and anxiety.

A Cole County judge ordered 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante to be taken to the Fulton State Hospital for up to 96 hours. The teenager had been held at the Morgan County jail since being indicted Wednesday on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Elizabeth Olten on Oct. 21 because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill. They say Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/sns-ap-mo--missouri-girlslain,0,1789243.story

The above article says she was sent.  KMOV just reported the judge has not approved the order  ::MonkeyConfused::

Teen suspect in 9-year-old's murder seeks mental care

Posted on November 20, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Updated today at 12:24 PM


JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- The attorney for a teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old Missouri girl says his client should be sent to a psychiatric hospital.

A judge had not approved the move as of noon Friday, though a draft order had been submitted by the public defender Thursday as part of the case file.
Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante has been held at the Morgan County jail after being indicted Wednesday on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the Oct. 21 death of Elizabeth Olten.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill. They say Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Teen-suspect-in-9-year-olds-murder-sent-to-mental-hospital-70616617.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 20, 2009, 01:40:08 PM
Having worked in prisons it always irked me to NO end how "protected" the inmates were, and how many rights they had. That system isnt good at all, (the state prison systems)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 01:44:49 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE

I think they are gonna need a bigger alarm system right away. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:52:32 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:56:51 PM

BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:59:10 PM
Mo. teen murder suspect seeks mental care

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — The attorney for a teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old Missouri girl says his client should be sent to a psychiatric hospital.

A judge had not approved the move as of noon Friday, though a draft order had been submitted by the public defender Thursday as part of the case file.

Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante has been held at the Morgan County jail after being indicted Wednesday on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the Oct. 21 death of Elizabeth Olten.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut Elizabeth's throat because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill. They say Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, near Jefferson City.

(This version CORRECTS that the suspect has not been sent to a psychiatric hospital, but that a judge is considering a defense attorney's request to send her there.)   ::MonkeyConfused::

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6731313.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 02:02:59 PM

BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 02:19:13 PM
Atty seeks psych care for Mo. teen murder suspect

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old neighbor should be sent to a psychiatric hospital because she shows signs of severe depression and anxiety, her attorney said.

A judge had not approved the move as of noon Friday, though a draft order calling for a 96-hour stay at the Fulton State Hospital had been submitted by the public defender Thursday and was included in the case file.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, has been held at the Morgan County jail after being indicted Wednesday as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action for the Oct. 21 death of Elizabeth Olten.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut Elizbeth's throat because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. They say Bustamante confessed and led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

During a court hearing Wednesday, a juvenile justice officer testified that Bustamante had attempted suicide two years ago and had received both inpatient and outpatient mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself. Her juvenile defense attorney said Bustamante also had attempted to cut herself with her own fingernails while being held in juvenile custody after Elizabeth's death.

Public defender Jan King cited the previous suicide attempt in a court document Thursday while stating that Bustamante was "demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety" and had been under a suicide watch at the jail.

Bustamante needs "immediate psychological treatment" to "assess her current mental state and to prevent the possibility that she may harm herself," King said in the motion requesting her transfer.

A not guilty plea was entered by a judge on Bustamante's behalf during her initial appearance Wednesday in adult court. If Bustamante is convicted of first-degree murder, she would face a sentence of life in prison without parole.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0daWk3sRLzLhXktLIXEETYccUTwD9C3E6OG0


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 02:29:55 PM
Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 02:36:40 PM
Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 20, 2009, 02:47:52 PM
O/T...Klaas we are trapped in the Caylee thread.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 02:56:59 PM
FOX NEWS (ugh) lol
Doing a report on missed warning signs about Alyssa next few minutes


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 20, 2009, 03:02:07 PM
FOX NEWS (ugh) lol
Doing a report on missed warning signs about Alyssa next few minutes

Hi Karen, do you know if that's local fox news or national? Thanks ::ElfMonkey::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 03:03:02 PM
National satellite/cable


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 20, 2009, 03:04:52 PM
National satellite/cable
Thankyou...I'm going to turn on the tv and see if I can find out anything. Have a great day!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 03:08:53 PM
Typical they had trailer at about 2:58 and said in 3 minutes. It is almost 10 minutes later and nothing. They had her mugshort pics up. ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 03:11:35 PM
Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.

And she is the "only girl" that has ever been certified as an adult in the state of Missouri for a criminal act? I find that hard to believe. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 03:23:29 PM
Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.

And she is the "only girl" that has ever been certified as an adult in the state of Missouri for a criminal act? I find that hard to believe. JMO

Juvenile system has nowhere for her to go since she is charged with murder 1. they can't keep her safe from herself/other inmates. When a boy does this they put him into an adult correctional facility in a division just for minors (typically all have violent acts on their record). The prisons for women have no area like this. they try to keep the minor seperated because they are more likely to be sexually abused by guards and other inmates.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 03:31:37 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 03:55:17 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

Look up what her Monkey name means...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 03:57:02 PM
 ::MonkeyEek::  I apologize Shinju. Didn't read your post properly. So there is a minor jail for males?  How does that protect them though from violence or sexual abuse?  I think males are more prone to be abused by fellow inmates than are female just by nature.   A 15 year old is not a "child" in my opinion. Most 11 and 12 year old girls these days are like 18 year olds from my generation. They are savvy and smarter than we were. Alyssa was an honor student.   I think she did know right from wrong.  How could she expect though to get away with it? That is the defect in her psyche.

I don't know what to say, but I feel she will never be normal and can never be trusted in society again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 03:59:09 PM
Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.

And she is the "only girl" that has ever been certified as an adult in the state of Missouri for a criminal act? I find that hard to believe. JMO

Juvenile system has nowhere for her to go since she is charged with murder 1. they can't keep her safe from herself/other inmates. When a boy does this they put him into an adult correctional facility in a division just for minors (typically all have violent acts on their record). The prisons for women have no area like this. they try to keep the minor seperated because they are more likely to be sexually abused by guards and other inmates.

There are no facilities in the whole state of Missouri for juvenile females that are deemed adults? How backward is Missouri? Cole County is the home of the capital of Missouri. Not like it is the boon docks. And not like they haven't had their share of crime by juveniles. This is 2009 and crime is rampant. JC is not Mayberry. Sounds to me like someone needs a fire built under them. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 04:00:16 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 04:03:38 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: MunkeyMunk on November 20, 2009, 04:05:05 PM


Look up what her Monkey name means...
[/quote]


 ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 04:05:24 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 04:08:25 PM
I got my name from a theme present in bunraku theater (which i love). It is present throughout several bunraku plays, and i happen to love Shinjū ten no Amijima. I find it romantic, and heartbreaking, much like a japanese titanic. I also happen to like the way the word sounds.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 04:08:51 PM
got that from wikipedia, btw.  Nothing more serious then Romeo and Juliet.  I am not shocked or offended.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 04:09:08 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]



SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 04:10:34 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.
::MonkeyCheer4::

AWWW there you go Shinju!!!! Now I am your newest biggest fan. Thank you!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 04:10:46 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]



SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?

I wouldn't think so.  That would be like if Bill Shakespeare was emo.....lol


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 04:11:50 PM
I am still interested in Bill Currie.  I still think there is a connection.  Anyone done any further looking into it?  Or find out what the book was about?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 20, 2009, 04:13:25 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]



SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?

No. Lol. I'm pretty much the exact opposite, but I did take an interest in japanese culture and language while in high school. Everyone should see bunraku bay puppet troupe its awesome.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 04:20:11 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]



SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?

No. Lol. I'm pretty much the exact opposite, but I did take an interest in japanese culture and language while in high school. Everyone should see bunraku bay puppet troupe its awesome.

I understand about the Japanese part, and the Bunraku Bay Puppet troupe. I just don't understand why you would pick that particular name.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 04:22:03 PM
I am still interested in Bill Currie.  I still think there is a connection.  Anyone done any further looking into it?  Or find out what the book was about?

I dug around quite a bit, and so did some other Monkeys. I am not really sure that was the same Bill Currie. The bio DOB didn't match.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 20, 2009, 04:35:32 PM
Here is a little entry a former student wrote about Bill Currie, also a picture of him, if you are interested.  Not at all what I imagined.....

http://sjanephotography.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/remembering-bill-currie-as-the-world-moves-on/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 20, 2009, 04:50:15 PM
Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.

And she is the "only girl" that has ever been certified as an adult in the state of Missouri for a criminal act? I find that hard to believe. JMO

Juvenile system has nowhere for her to go since she is charged with murder 1. they can't keep her safe from herself/other inmates. When a boy does this they put him into an adult correctional facility in a division just for minors (typically all have violent acts on their record). The prisons for women have no area like this. they try to keep the minor seperated because they are more likely to be sexually abused by guards and other inmates.

It is call ad seg..or adminstrative segragation... or protected custody, and YES it is in the BIG GIRLS prisons, where 15 year olds that kill 9 year old INNOCENT little girls belong. They are locked up 23 hrs a day and allowed "rec" time for 1 hr completely by themselves and alone. Which if they kill innocent kids, is where they need to be completely alone for the rest of their life.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 20, 2009, 05:04:27 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.
::MonkeyCheer4::

AWWW there you go Shinju!!!! Now I am your newest biggest fan. Thank you!

I have to say I don't agree with allowing this girl to be tortured or raped, no matter what heinous acts she may have commited, and I do understand that no one here is saying that these things WILL OR SHOULD happen to her in there, but yes the possibility exists. Do I think she deserves special protection..of course not. IMO we should not wish these things upon this girl though, or anybody for that matter..What I do hope for is that she does find our savior through this, and her heart is turned to good. I think she should be detained until 21 and put to death for her crime in a humane way. (BTW, I know this will not happen) I am not a fan of holding prisoners in their cells for the rest of their lives where taxpayer money funds their education, and meals, while mean while, our innocent die on the streets..
IMO anyone who commits a henious crime, such as this should be made an immediate appointment with GOD (executed humanely). Those who commit crimes such as this one cannot be rehabilitated, it has been proven time and time again.

Also I know this is off topic, but please everybody remember Brianna Lopez, another angel taken far too soon.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 05:17:59 PM
Here is a little entry a former student wrote about Bill Currie, also a picture of him, if you are interested.  Not at all what I imagined.....

http://sjanephotography.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/remembering-bill-currie-as-the-world-moves-on/

I have seen a picture of him before, but that was a really nice article written by his ex-student.
Thanks.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 05:22:06 PM
I got my name from a theme present in bunraku theater (which i love). It is present throughout several bunraku plays, and i happen to love Shinjū ten no Amijima. I find it romantic, and heartbreaking, much like a japanese titanic. I also happen to like the way the word sounds.

"Double Suicide." Sounds a little black to me to be romantic. JMO

But then, I wasn't a big fan of Romeo and Juliette either.  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 05:26:13 PM
Posted by Mental Health Worker, Fulton - Friday, November 20, 2009 at 2:44 p.m.
 
The Department of Mental Health will file for a longer stay so they can evaluate her longer. I see this happen all the time. It never stays at 96 hours. She will be at the hospital for months if not a year or two or longer until the hospital and her “private” doctors decide she is “competent” to stand trial. If she is never found to be “competent” then the Judge will say she is NGRI (Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity). This is the ultimate goal her attorney is after. If she gets her NGRI the Judge will commit her to the care of the hospital until a panel of doctors determines she is “cured” or can live in the community, most likely supervised. This process can be as little as 6 years or as much as 25 or longer if need be. But in the eyes of her attorney this is better than the death penalty or life behind bars! And most persons prefer the stay at the “Hospital” instead of “Prison” because they are not treated like “Prisoners” but rather “Patients”. And don’t even get me started on that! News 8 just did a story on employee injuries at the hospital….
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380191


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 05:33:46 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.
::MonkeyCheer4::

AWWW there you go Shinju!!!! Now I am your newest biggest fan. Thank you!

I have to say I don't agree with allowing this girl to be tortured or raped, no matter what heinous acts she may have commited, and I do understand that no one here is saying that these things WILL OR SHOULD happen to her in there, but yes the possibility exists. Do I think she deserves special protection..of course not. IMO we should not wish these things upon this girl though, or anybody for that matter..What I do hope for is that she does find our savior through this, and her heart is turned to good. I think she should be detained until 21 and put to death for her crime in a humane way. (BTW, I know this will not happen) I am not a fan of holding prisoners in their cells for the rest of their lives where taxpayer money funds their education, and meals, while mean while, our innocent die on the streets..
IMO anyone who commits a henious crime, such as this should be made an immediate appointment with GOD (executed humanely). Those who commit crimes such as this one cannot be rehabilitated, it has been proven time and time again.

Also I know this is off topic, but please everybody remember Brianna Lopez, another angel taken far too soon.

My whole focus is Alyssa should not be treated like "this particular (ie: special) girl." She is not special, she is an aberration of a human being. A 15 yr old that thrill killed a 9 yr old to see how it felt. I have no doubt she had the capacity at any point not to do it, but she didn't. She lay in her bed and planned this thing in her mind. She savored it. She is probably savoring it now, except the getting caught is not what she was planning.

 There were adults around her everyday she could have gone to and said I am having these thoughts and I need help. But she did not. She told her Best Bud who's dad said they knew she was talking about seeing what it felt like to kill someone but that was just kids. DUH!!

I went to Brianna's MySpace, and her's was a truly awful story and so typical that it is still going on even today. My condolences to her family and to you.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 20, 2009, 06:12:14 PM
Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.

And she is the "only girl" that has ever been certified as an adult in the state of Missouri for a criminal act? I find that hard to believe. JMO

Juvenile system has nowhere for her to go since she is charged with murder 1. they can't keep her safe from herself/other inmates. When a boy does this they put him into an adult correctional facility in a division just for minors (typically all have violent acts on their record). The prisons for women have no area like this. they try to keep the minor seperated because they are more likely to be sexually abused by guards and other inmates.

It is call ad seg..or adminstrative segragation... or protected custody, and YES it is in the BIG GIRLS prisons, where 15 year olds that kill 9 year old INNOCENT little girls belong. They are locked up 23 hrs a day and allowed "rec" time for 1 hr completely by themselves and alone. Which if they kill innocent kids, is where they need to be completely alone for the rest of their life.
Right on Txsflame, I couldn't of said it better myself. ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: yorkiemom on November 20, 2009, 06:42:08 PM
I agree she shouldn't get special treatment.  I worked at the FSH a few years ago and they all really get treated better than patients.  They get to go off their wards to different activities once they have earned a pass which doesn't take much.  Anyone can easily fool the staff and doctors to get a pass since most of them aren't mentally ill.  Their lawyers have worked the system and got them placed there.  They have more rights than you and I.  We've always said there's more mentally ill people walking the streets than at the state hospital.  They know they can get by with "murder" with the staff and nothing will happen to them since they are already considered "mentally ill".   ::MonkeyMad::  When I worked there we couldn't have anyone under the age of 17 6 months but things might have changed now.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 20, 2009, 07:48:39 PM
O/T I made a Sm forum for My Jane Doe, the link is in my signature, and please dont forget to check her website(link also in signature) I added a very touching video for ehr today.

 Ok back on topic, I agree there are a few mentally ill "inmates" but most that are considered mentally ill really arent they  just know how to work the system.. I could type for days and NOT get in all the storys of the pretend mental inmates I met in five years of working medical in Texas Prisons.  To me truly mentally ill person wouldnt not have the brain resources to plan and carry out this vicious crime.  And ok so what if she truly is mantally ill, more important is she is a danger to society, and needs to be housed well away from everyone. It matters NOT one bit to me, WHY she is a danger, it only matter that we ALL know she is, and therefore there is but one place for her, in a cell, locked up.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 20, 2009, 08:22:20 PM
Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so. ::MonkeyMad::

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.
::MonkeyCheer4::

AWWW there you go Shinju!!!! Now I am your newest biggest fan. Thank you!

I have to say I don't agree with allowing this girl to be tortured or raped, no matter what heinous acts she may have commited, and I do understand that no one here is saying that these things WILL OR SHOULD happen to her in there, but yes the possibility exists. Do I think she deserves special protection..of course not. IMO we should not wish these things upon this girl though, or anybody for that matter..What I do hope for is that she does find our savior through this, and her heart is turned to good. I think she should be detained until 21 and put to death for her crime in a humane way. (BTW, I know this will not happen) I am not a fan of holding prisoners in their cells for the rest of their lives where taxpayer money funds their education, and meals, while mean while, our innocent die on the streets..
IMO anyone who commits a henious crime, such as this should be made an immediate appointment with GOD (executed humanely). Those who commit crimes such as this one cannot be rehabilitated, it has been proven time and time again.

Also I know this is off topic, but please everybody remember Brianna Lopez, another angel taken far too soon.

My whole focus is Alyssa should not be treated like "this particular (ie: special) girl." She is not special, she is an aberration of a human being. A 15 yr old that thrill killed a 9 yr old to see how it felt. I have no doubt she had the capacity at any point not to do it, but she didn't. She lay in her bed and planned this thing in her mind. She savored it. She is probably savoring it now, except the getting caught is not what she was planning.

 There were adults around her everyday she could have gone to and said I am having these thoughts and I need help. But she did not. She told her Best Bud who's dad said they knew she was talking about seeing what it felt like to kill someone but that was just kids. DUH!!

I went to Brianna's MySpace, and her's was a truly awful story and so typical that it is still going on even today. My condolences to her family and to you.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Thanks for reading her story fanny mae, I do not know her or her family, its just a case I've followed closely, i wont go much into it here, but that case was a complete failure of our legal system, and if and when her perpetrators ever get out on parole, or when their sentences are up I will be right there protesting. This was the case that led me to believe in the death penalty which I was once adamantly against, but the truth is there is real evil in this world, and when we knowingly allow it back onto our streets, we are guilty too


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 20, 2009, 08:25:52 PM
O/T I made a Sm forum for My Jane Doe, the link is in my signature, and please dont forget to check her website(link also in signature) I added a very touching video for ehr today.

 Ok back on topic, I agree there are a few mentally ill "inmates" but most that are considered mentally ill really arent they  just know how to work the system.. I could type for days and NOT get in all the storys of the pretend mental inmates I met in five years of working medical in Texas Prisons.  To me truly mentally ill person wouldnt not have the brain resources to plan and carry out this vicious crime.  And ok so what if she truly is mantally ill, more important is she is a danger to society, and needs to be housed well away from everyone. It matters NOT one bit to me, WHY she is a danger, it only matter that we ALL know she is, and therefore there is but one place for her, in a cell, locked up.

 ::MonkeyCheer4:: Agreed!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: theboyzmom on November 20, 2009, 08:29:40 PM
She has been getting to see the state.  First Morgan county  now north to Fulton. 
LOL...that certainly wouldn't be my dream vacation. I would really like to know what that monster is thinking now. I kind of think she thought she was going to get away with this.

I they can get a DR to say her mental state is not fit she may just get away with this.  The one article yesterday said she was exceptionally bright and sneaky.  That she worded things just the right way to get what she wanted.  The example was when her Grandparents thought she was going to the church for a youth function and she ended up in St. Louis for a concert.  My gut is telling me she is manipulating right now so she can get out of doing time in jail.

The scary thing is that she is a true psychopath it may be that she will be able to fool some of the doctors. I can only hope Dr. Hare or someone similar is used by the prosecution. P's are scary and non curable - since psychopathy is not a disease - it is a personality disorder.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 08:38:38 PM
O/T I made a Sm forum for My Jane Doe, the link is in my signature, and please dont forget to check her website(link also in signature) I added a very touching video for ehr today.

 Ok back on topic, I agree there are a few mentally ill "inmates" but most that are considered mentally ill really arent they  just know how to work the system.. I could type for days and NOT get in all the storys of the pretend mental inmates I met in five years of working medical in Texas Prisons.  To me truly mentally ill person wouldnt not have the brain resources to plan and carry out this vicious crime.  And ok so what if she truly is mantally ill, more important is she is a danger to society, and needs to be housed well away from everyone. It matters NOT one bit to me, WHY she is a danger, it only matter that we ALL know she is, and therefore there is but one place for her, in a cell, locked up.

Good for you TXFLAME. I just got back on the thread and I will go and read there.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 08:42:27 PM

Thanks for reading her story fanny mae, I do not know her or her family, its just a case I've followed closely, i wont go much into it here, but that case was a complete failure of our legal system, and if and when her perpetrators ever get out on parole, or when their sentences are up I will be right there protesting. This was the case that led me to believe in the death penalty which I was once adamantly against, but the truth is there is real evil in this world, and when we knowingly allow it back onto our streets, we are guilty too

I just believe there are some people who should NEVER get out of jail, and pedo's are definitely on that list.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: I used to not believe in capital punishment either, but I have seen some things that turned me around about that too. Thank goodness there are people like you in the world that have a heart. (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/beatingheart-1.gif)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 20, 2009, 08:44:29 PM
I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?

Don't know how much he is involved, but I did see him at the house on Tuesday, getting out of his car so he is 'in town'. Not sure if he was at court, from the reports it mentioned grandmother 'Karen' and AB's mother. It would be hard to be a 'father figure' when you are traveling around the US as an IT consultant, those are usually very hard on families.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 20, 2009, 08:53:01 PM
I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?

Don't know how much he is involved, but I did see him at the house on Tuesday, getting out of his car so he is 'in town'. Not sure if he was at court, from the reports it mentioned grandmother 'Karen' and AB's mother. It would be hard to be a 'father figure' when you are traveling around the US as an IT consultant, those are usually very hard on families.




Hi there Tom, do you live nearby where this happened?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 09:00:04 PM
Please light a gratefulness candle for Elizabeth.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: floridatreasure9 on November 20, 2009, 09:42:00 PM
Please light a gratefulness candle for Elizabeth.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O

Thank You for the link Fanny   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 20, 2009, 10:21:12 PM
Hi there Tom, do you live nearby where this happened?

I drive by the homes twice everyday for work.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 20, 2009, 10:38:10 PM
To TS:  The unanswered question and we know she had one because it was reported she was with him on school grounds, who is her boyfriend? and what if any role did he have in this?   Is there any charge that can be made against him if he KNEW she was going to do this and did not tell?   I sure would like to know at least what are his initials or what his name sounds like.    I have searched every myspace or facebook or any blog of Alyssa's friends and not one word is mentioned about "the boyfriend".   I can't help but think he could lend much light to this case.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 20, 2009, 10:50:44 PM
Just checking out totallyavalleygirls myspace, and wondering if any of you knew what she means by alyssaapocal? is that a nickname or something and what does it mean? BTW, all this crap she is writing about missing her so much is really insane. I'm really shocked by it, especially what her dad mentioned about KNOWING about AB's desire to know what its like to kill someone. If thats not a warning sign, I don't know what is...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 20, 2009, 11:00:41 PM
KARENK, I am not sure who the boyfriend is exactly either. There are a couple of maybe's but I wouldn't put it out here until we really have some way of knowing since he is probably a juvi. Valley Girl kind of outted herself with her news interview the other day. And I don't know what her parents are thinking to allow her to keep up with this love-fest thing she has going about Alyssa. ::MonkeyNoNo::
ARRIVADERCI I don't know what that means either. Maybe NORTHERN might have an idea when she comes back on. Friday nights are always special at her house.

I am going to call it a night, so I will say Good Night. Enjoy the rest of your evening.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 20, 2009, 11:21:18 PM
KARENK, I am not sure who the boyfriend is exactly either. There are a couple of maybe's but I wouldn't put it out here until we really have some way of knowing since he is probably a juvi. Valley Girl kind of outted herself with her news interview the other day. And I don't know what her parents are thinking to allow her to keep up with this love-fest thing she has going about Alyssa. ::MonkeyNoNo::
ARRIVADERCI I don't know what that means either. Maybe NORTHERN might have an idea when she comes back on. Friday nights are always special at her house.

I am going to call it a night, so I will say Good Night. Enjoy the rest of your evening.  ::MonkeyAngel::


 I have no idea could be short for Alyssa Apocalypse or something like that.  She has added it since she figured out people are watching her site.  I think is it more for drama personally.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 20, 2009, 11:34:37 PM
To TS:  The unanswered question and we know she had one because it was reported she was with him on school grounds, who is her boyfriend? and what if any role did he have in this?   Is there any charge that can be made against him if he KNEW she was going to do this and did not tell?   I sure would like to know at least what are his initials or what his name sounds like.    I have searched every myspace or facebook or any blog of Alyssa's friends and not one word is mentioned about "the boyfriend".   I can't help but think he could lend much light to this case.

The name I hear from the local are the initials D.M., he is probably a minor (16-17 yo) so I will not post his name. From what I understand he dated her at some time, no sure he is her 'current' BF or just a friend. He does 'fit' the EMO / GOTH role, black and colored hair, and dresses the part also.

I think the LE searched his home a few times, questioned the heck out of him, not sure about any charges, might have heard some drug related charge was getting him held, then heard he was out of school for a bit on making a threat. Alot of rumors etc. flying around etc.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 20, 2009, 11:47:33 PM
I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I was just doing some digging to find out what her youtube account name Okamikage means...it appears its from some kind of online game, and means "black wolf"..does anyone know what game this would be from??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 21, 2009, 12:02:47 AM
To TS:  The unanswered question and we know she had one because it was reported she was with him on school grounds, who is her boyfriend? and what if any role did he have in this?   Is there any charge that can be made against him if he KNEW she was going to do this and did not tell?   I sure would like to know at least what are his initials or what his name sounds like.    I have searched every myspace or facebook or any blog of Alyssa's friends and not one word is mentioned about "the boyfriend".   I can't help but think he could lend much light to this case.

The name I hear from the local are the initials D.M., he is probably a minor (16-17 yo) so I will not post his name. From what I understand he dated her at some time, no sure he is her 'current' BF or just a friend. He does 'fit' the EMO / GOTH role, black and colored hair, and dresses the part also.

I think the LE searched his home a few times, questioned the heck out of him, not sure about any charges, might have heard some drug related charge was getting him held, then heard he was out of school for a bit on making a threat. Alot of rumors etc. flying around etc.
::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::

Thank you so much T.   You have saved me from tons of hours more searching. I know who it is now.   Someone early on threw out the wrong last initial.    If I am on the right track, his last name is like that of the first name of a famous movie star's child.  I thought it was him.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 21, 2009, 12:14:19 AM
Hello Monkey Friends!

I just wanted to mention that I went to the high school football game in my town tonight and at one point, while the spectators were standing for the Nat'l Anthem, the band, cheerleaders, baton twirlers, dance team, ROTC were all on the field standing in unity, I was literally overwhelmed by the thought of the same thing possibly taking place on the field at Jefferson City H.S..  I was thinking about those kids at that school, how they have ALL been affected by this crime, the rumors that are spinning, the horrible truth they have had to hear and try to comprehend and the little remaining innocence of those kids that was robbed from them because of this horrible Monster.

And, unbelievably, I actually had a moment where I thought about Alyssa, and how her choices will result in her never again being present at one of those H.S. football games, as a part of a community, a part of what should be a normal childhood.  I was, in a very strange way, (hold your fire Monkeys)...sad for her.  Not sure if that is the right way to describe what I was feeling.  I don't know.  Just the sheer sadness of the whole horrible mess kind of washed over me.  How, in that one final second, that Monster changed the course of so many lives forever.

The last thing I want to add, is how good it was for me personally to be at that football game tonight.  I have been so precoccupied with this case over the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit about Alyssa, her "friends" and acquaintances, and all their darkness...it was SO NICE to see a LOT (and I mean A LOT) of normal, happy, healthy, well adjusted teenagers.  It really sort of renewed my faith in the youth of today. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 21, 2009, 12:23:12 AM
I am 22 years old and my parents would KILL me if I was on TV talking about a killer in a GOOD WAY. How embarrassing for her family....and her dad was THERE! How mind boggling. Does he not realize that people who DETEST Alyssa could be watching and now know what her so called "best friend" looks like?!?! That ISNT safe for a minor and very stupid if you ask me!

Also, I don't wish anything bad upon ANYONE but at the same time....Elizabeth didn't deserve or provoke this. Alyssa DID. If it happens, it happens!! I agree with whoever posted about pedophiles and child abusers deserving to have the worst... I agree! I wish it were an eye for an eye...get people twice their size to hurt them!! Maybe people would think twice about sinning.. then again...an eye for an eye makes a world blind. Sheesh. Just put the girl in BIG GIRL jail for goodness sake!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 21, 2009, 12:23:30 AM
On another note, my aunt, whom I never really knew, was supposedly in and out of facilities from pretty early on and I always used to hear how she was able to con the counselors, doctors, therapists, etc. from the time she was a child and they would always be fooled by her.  She grew into a teen and then an adult with a MAJOR drug problem, which of course led to a trainwreck of a life all around.  But she was NEVER kept in any type of hospital, jail, whatever for more than a couple of days at most.  Granted, she never murdered anyone (as far as I know), but completely capable of fooling the "experts" all day long.  Its insulting and infuriating to hear that someone who was obviously messed up to me when I was a little girl, was able to slip thru the fingers of the people trained to care for her.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 21, 2009, 12:24:22 AM
Hello Monkey Friends!

I just wanted to mention that I went to the high school football game in my town tonight and at one point, while the spectators were standing for the Nat'l Anthem, the band, cheerleaders, baton twirlers, dance team, ROTC were all on the field standing in unity, I was literally overwhelmed by the thought of the same thing possibly taking place on the field at Jefferson City H.S..  I was thinking about those kids at that school, how they have ALL been affected by this crime, the rumors that are spinning, the horrible truth they have had to hear and try to comprehend and the little remaining innocence of those kids that was robbed from them because of this horrible Monster.

And, unbelievably, I actually had a moment where I thought about Alyssa, and how her choices will result in her never again being present at one of those H.S. football games, as a part of a community, a part of what should be a normal childhood.  I was, in a very strange way, (hold your fire Monkeys)...sad for her.  Not sure if that is the right way to describe what I was feeling.  I don't know.  Just the sheer sadness of the whole horrible mess kind of washed over me.  How, in that one final second, that Monster changed the course of so many lives forever.

The last thing I want to add, is how good it was for me personally to be at that football game tonight.  I have been so precoccupied with this case over the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit about Alyssa, her "friends" and acquaintances, and all their darkness...it was SO NICE to see a LOT (and I mean A LOT) of normal, happy, healthy, well adjusted teenagers.  It really sort of renewed my faith in the youth of today. 


Hello Queenie :)
I'm glad you had a goodnight, and I understand what you are saying..it is sad, it is a horrible, terrible tragedy for all involved. I think one of the reasons we (myself at least) have been so interested in finding out more about AB is because there is a NEED to find a reason for all of this (of which there will never really be..) Its just horrifying to think that she may have really done it 'just to see what it felt like.." This scares me to death, I want to think it was something else, not just curiousity..She is simultaneously a child and a monster all at once, and I cannot wrap my mind around this


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 21, 2009, 12:28:21 AM
Hello Monkey Friends!

I just wanted to mention that I went to the high school football game in my town tonight and at one point, while the spectators were standing for the Nat'l Anthem, the band, cheerleaders, baton twirlers, dance team, ROTC were all on the field standing in unity, I was literally overwhelmed by the thought of the same thing possibly taking place on the field at Jefferson City H.S..  I was thinking about those kids at that school, how they have ALL been affected by this crime, the rumors that are spinning, the horrible truth they have had to hear and try to comprehend and the little remaining innocence of those kids that was robbed from them because of this horrible Monster.

And, unbelievably, I actually had a moment where I thought about Alyssa, and how her choices will result in her never again being present at one of those H.S. football games, as a part of a community, a part of what should be a normal childhood.  I was, in a very strange way, (hold your fire Monkeys)...sad for her.  Not sure if that is the right way to describe what I was feeling.  I don't know.  Just the sheer sadness of the whole horrible mess kind of washed over me.  How, in that one final second, that Monster changed the course of so many lives forever.

The last thing I want to add, is how good it was for me personally to be at that football game tonight.  I have been so precoccupied with this case over the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit about Alyssa, her "friends" and acquaintances, and all their darkness...it was SO NICE to see a LOT (and I mean A LOT) of normal, happy, healthy, well adjusted teenagers.  It really sort of renewed my faith in the youth of today. 


Funny you said that! I was JUST thinking something similar today.....I was thinking that Alyssa was just starting to experience high school....no driving license yet..etc....the fun was JUST about to begin, ya know?! No more proms, no more dates, no more anything. Wow. I wonder if she thought about any of that while planning the murder. I don't really have any compassion for her right now...Maybe my heart is just hardened. And WOW....I would never want to go to school if that had happened to people at my school.. I would be terrified. Not to mention...who the hell would want to talk to any of the "emo" or "goth" people that go to their school??? Especially the people who are SUPPORTING her. Wow. This is going to change the dynamics big time and probably going to cause more problems in the future :( all because of a selfish, selfish girl.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 21, 2009, 12:38:39 AM
Hello Monkey Friends!

I just wanted to mention that I went to the high school football game in my town tonight and at one point, while the spectators were standing for the Nat'l Anthem, the band, cheerleaders, baton twirlers, dance team, ROTC were all on the field standing in unity, I was literally overwhelmed by the thought of the same thing possibly taking place on the field at Jefferson City H.S..  I was thinking about those kids at that school, how they have ALL been affected by this crime, the rumors that are spinning, the horrible truth they have had to hear and try to comprehend and the little remaining innocence of those kids that was robbed from them because of this horrible Monster.

And, unbelievably, I actually had a moment where I thought about Alyssa, and how her choices will result in her never again being present at one of those H.S. football games, as a part of a community, a part of what should be a normal childhood.  I was, in a very strange way, (hold your fire Monkeys)...sad for her.  Not sure if that is the right way to describe what I was feeling.  I don't know.  Just the sheer sadness of the whole horrible mess kind of washed over me.  How, in that one final second, that Monster changed the course of so many lives forever.

The last thing I want to add, is how good it was for me personally to be at that football game tonight.  I have been so precoccupied with this case over the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit about Alyssa, her "friends" and acquaintances, and all their darkness...it was SO NICE to see a LOT (and I mean A LOT) of normal, happy, healthy, well adjusted teenagers.  It really sort of renewed my faith in the youth of today. 


Hello Queenie :)
I'm glad you had a goodnight, and I understand what you are saying..it is sad, it is a horrible, terrible tragedy for all involved. I think one of the reasons we (myself at least) have been so interested in finding out more about AB is because there is a NEED to find a reason for all of this (of which there will never really be..) Its just horrifying to think that she may have really done it 'just to see what it felt like.." This scares me to death, I want to think it was something else, not just curiousity..She is simultaneously a child and a monster all at once, and I cannot wrap my mind around this

I totally agree!  Thats the difference between sane people and sick ones.  We can't imagine EVER doing such a thing.  I can imagine myself killing someone in the event of self defense maybe, or for my children's safety.  And even then, I can't actually imagine the ACT of taking a life, just that I know I would be willing to do whatever it took for myself or my family.  The aftermath of even THAT would probably require years of therapy!!

I was reading about pyschopaths once and how they have an ability to dehumanize people to get whatever it is THEY want (even if its just to "see what it felt like").  One Dr. in the article likened it to how a normal person can carve a Thanksgiving turkey and not give a thought to the fact that it was once a living creature walking around.  (Maybe this isn't true for vegetarians, but you get the idea!).  A pyschopath can somehow disassociate him/herself from reality.  The person they kill is not a "person", she is a means to an end.  That's why we normal people can't even begin to comprehend taking the life of another person. 

Its way to dark and evil to try to wrap your brain around.  I have spent so many weeks being so ANGRY at Alyssa that tonight I felt such sorrow for her wasted life.  I'm still angry, and she deserves MORE punishment than whatever she gets. 

And one more thing...I just want to say that frankly, I'm way more concered for the safety of the inmates in that prison than I am for Alyssa, I don't care how much older they are!  She strangled, stabbed and cut a child nearly her own size!!  She is cold blooded murderer...the other inmates need protection from HER!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 21, 2009, 12:51:04 AM
☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocalwww.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl
Send Message
Add to Friends
Add Comment
i was on the news...channel 13; my stalker was arrested; i went shoppin; my hair is blk n red; im in love with adam Mood: missing alyssa
Posted at 5:52 AM Nov 19 from Mobile




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 12:57:43 AM
☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocalwww.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl
Send Message
Add to Friends
Add Comment
i was on the news...channel 13; my stalker was arrested; i went shoppin; my hair is blk n red; im in love with adam Mood: missing alyssa
Posted at 5:52 AM Nov 19 from Mobile




my stalker was arrested   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 21, 2009, 01:01:01 AM
☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocalwww.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl
Send Message
Add to Friends
Add Comment
i was on the news...channel 13; my stalker was arrested; i went shoppin; my hair is blk n red; im in love with adam Mood: missing alyssa
Posted at 5:52 AM Nov 19 from Mobile




"STALKER"!?!?!??! is she serious?? no one would WANT to stalk her unless it was to make her SHUT UP. She is just as much of an attention whore as Alyssa is! Holy cow! ......if you DONT want to be stalked... MAYBE you shouldnt update your facebook about being friends with a COLD HEARTED MURDERER anddd don't go on the news blabbing about it. PS - she looks WAY better in her MYSPACE pictures then in real life...and thats not saying much. Shes disgusting..inside and out.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 21, 2009, 01:03:39 AM
I just looked at her Myspace... she updated her status 10 minutes ago...


☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocal
sitting...alone. in my room...bored as f***. really depressed......shit has hit the fan doodMood: missing alyssa



HMMM....maybe her Mom saw her myspace? Clearly her Dad doesn't care... LOL


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 01:56:03 AM
☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocalwww.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl
Send Message
Add to Friends
Add Comment
i was on the news...channel 13; my stalker was arrested; i went shoppin; my hair is blk n red; im in love with adam Mood: missing alyssa
Posted at 5:52 AM Nov 19 from Mobile




my stalker was arrested   ::MonkeyConfused::


I was kinda wondering if she was considering the ONE who reported her MS her stalker, guess not cause so far I am free free free.lol  Guess she had more then one "stalker"


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 01:57:50 AM
Oh and a BIG thanks to Karen, I NOW have the name to the final set of initials.. the aledged bf of Ab, srry just had to do the initial thing one more time..


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 21, 2009, 03:17:33 AM
Hello Monkey Friends!

I just wanted to mention that I went to the high school football game in my town tonight and at one point, while the spectators were standing for the Nat'l Anthem, the band, cheerleaders, baton twirlers, dance team, ROTC were all on the field standing in unity, I was literally overwhelmed by the thought of the same thing possibly taking place on the field at Jefferson City H.S..  I was thinking about those kids at that school, how they have ALL been affected by this crime, the rumors that are spinning, the horrible truth they have had to hear and try to comprehend and the little remaining innocence of those kids that was robbed from them because of this horrible Monster.

And, unbelievably, I actually had a moment where I thought about Alyssa, and how her choices will result in her never again being present at one of those H.S. football games, as a part of a community, a part of what should be a normal childhood.  I was, in a very strange way, (hold your fire Monkeys)...sad for her.  Not sure if that is the right way to describe what I was feeling.  I don't know.  Just the sheer sadness of the whole horrible mess kind of washed over me.  How, in that one final second, that Monster changed the course of so many lives forever.

The last thing I want to add, is how good it was for me personally to be at that football game tonight.  I have been so precoccupied with this case over the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit about Alyssa, her "friends" and acquaintances, and all their darkness...it was SO NICE to see a LOT (and I mean A LOT) of normal, happy, healthy, well adjusted teenagers.  It really sort of renewed my faith in the youth of today. 


Hello Queenie :)
I'm glad you had a goodnight, and I understand what you are saying..it is sad, it is a horrible, terrible tragedy for all involved. I think one of the reasons we (myself at least) have been so interested in finding out more about AB is because there is a NEED to find a reason for all of this (of which there will never really be..) Its just horrifying to think that she may have really done it 'just to see what it felt like.." This scares me to death, I want to think it was something else, not just curiousity..She is simultaneously a child and a monster all at once, and I cannot wrap my mind around this

I totally agree!  Thats the difference between sane people and sick ones.  We can't imagine EVER doing such a thing.  I can imagine myself killing someone in the event of self defense maybe, or for my children's safety.  And even then, I can't actually imagine the ACT of taking a life, just that I know I would be willing to do whatever it took for myself or my family.  The aftermath of even THAT would probably require years of therapy!!

I was reading about pyschopaths once and how they have an ability to dehumanize people to get whatever it is THEY want (even if its just to "see what it felt like").  One Dr. in the article likened it to how a normal person can carve a Thanksgiving turkey and not give a thought to the fact that it was once a living creature walking around.  (Maybe this isn't true for vegetarians, but you get the idea!).  A pyschopath can somehow disassociate him/herself from reality.  The person they kill is not a "person", she is a means to an end.  That's why we normal people can't even begin to comprehend taking the life of another person. 

Its way to dark and evil to try to wrap your brain around.  I have spent so many weeks being so ANGRY at Alyssa that tonight I felt such sorrow for her wasted life.  I'm still angry, and she deserves MORE punishment than whatever she gets. 

And one more thing...I just want to say that frankly, I'm way more concered for the safety of the inmates in that prison than I am for Alyssa, I don't care how much older they are!  She strangled, stabbed and cut a child nearly her own size!!  She is cold blooded murderer...the other inmates need protection from HER!
::Baseball:: ::Baseball:: ::Baseball::

OMG Queenie. We think alike!! I bet there is not ONE inmate in the female adult prison who has killed just to see what it feels like!  They are ALL at risk IMO!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 21, 2009, 07:48:17 AM
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/5F3B676545A63B7386257675000BCACB?OpenDocument

JEFFERSON CITY > Mental care sought for suspect
11/21/2009

A lawyer for Alyssa Bustamante, 15, charged as an adult with the first-degree murder of a 9-year-old girl, is seeking to have her transferred to a psychiatric hospital, saying she shows signs of severe depression and anxiety. Bustamante has been held in jail, accused of strangling and stabbing Elizabeth Olten, a neighbor in St. Martins, Mo., on Oct. 21. Police said she claimed she wanted to know how it felt to kill someone. A juvenile justice officer has testified that Bustamante attempted suicide two years ago and has received treatment for depression and for cutting herself.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 21, 2009, 08:25:52 AM
AHHH! Finally caught up! Spent the last 2 days with my 13 year old daughter which was awesome! ANyway-she says "apocal" means just normal. As in a normal person. She says it's a stupid word that hasn't really caught on.

As far as Karen Brooke I was one of the ones that said "oh Hell no!" when it came to her watching other kids. However, I said that it had NOTING to do with her qualifications or responsibilty with what happened with ALyssa but rather that with the emotions and tempers running high, I wouldn't feel my children would be safe there. Thankyou to Tomsmith clarifying the sign issue. They can run ALyssa all over the state of Missouri and file idiotic motions ALA Baez for all I care. The outcome is going to be the same. Guilty.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: New Monkey on November 21, 2009, 08:36:22 AM
I thought this was interesting.

ParanoidAudree>.<Misses You!

Mood: offtoshower/kill 

I'm still trying to figure out the boyfriend's last name. Can someone throw a girl a bone? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 21, 2009, 08:42:56 AM
I don't know the boyfriends last name or first name lol. There have been some initials thrown around but I'm not sure if anyone was postively id'ed as the BF. If someone knows anything hopefully they'll throw out some hints for us.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 21, 2009, 09:36:41 AM
I don't know the boyfriends last name or first name lol. There have been some initials thrown around but I'm not sure if anyone was postively id'ed as the BF. If someone knows anything hopefully they'll throw out some hints for us.

Again not sure who she was with that day at school, or that this is the right 'guy', but initals D.M. keep showing up. If you remember the Gunsmoke marshall's name and reverse it, you have most of it.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 21, 2009, 09:49:56 AM
Got it Thanks! A first for me--Thank God Mr. Espresso is a gunsmoke fan. LOL


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: melisb on November 21, 2009, 10:26:55 AM
Someone asked what Alyssapocal means well apocalypse means;

                                            1. prophetic of devastation or ultimate doom
If you put the two together and drop the lypse then I think it speaks for itself.  I guess her best friend does know her.  In the words of evil Casey Anthony, "a waste, a huge waste" and I am referring to AB.  I don't often say this but why didn't she just do herself in while videoing it.  That way she would know what it was like to die and we would still have Elizabeth.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Peace on November 21, 2009, 11:03:06 AM
My wish is that we as a society will closely examine why Alyssa became a monster so we can understand and try to prevent this from happening again.  We need to examine how a monster is made. Alyssa's life seemed to be a perfect storm. She was once an innocent infant. What exactly happened to bring her to commit such a heinous act? I want to know. Listening to the following testimonials, especially the woman who knows now that she became a true menace to society and a danger to others needs to be considered. Seeing others who were simply depressed turn to horrific violent acts needs to be considered. One common factor is they were all given the same type of drug.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkFasjSJ_g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkFasjSJ_g)

Additionally, this site references real cited data obtained via the freedom of information act
http://www.sntp.net/prozac/prozac_info_2.htm (http://www.sntp.net/prozac/prozac_info_2.htm)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 21, 2009, 11:16:42 AM
Thank-you Peace


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Peace on November 21, 2009, 11:34:17 AM
Antidepressant Suicide Warning for Teens
Teens on Antidepressants:
Red Flags To Watch Out For

Call a doctor if you notice…

    * New or more thoughts of suicide
    * Trying to commit suicide
    * New or worse depression
    * New or worse anxiety
    * Feeling very agitated or restless
    * Panic attacks
    * Difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
    * New or worse irritability
    * Acting aggressive, being angry, or violent
    * Acting on dangerous impulses
    * Being extremely hyperactive in actions and talking (hypomania or mania)
    * Other unusual changes in behavior

Source: FDA

Antidepressant medications may increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in some teenagers. All antidepressants are required by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to carry a “black box” warning label about this risk in children and adolescents. In May 2007, the FDA recommended that the warning be expanded to include young adults from ages 18 to 24. The risk of suicide is particularly great during the first one to two months of antidepressant treatment.

Certain young adults are at an even greater risk for suicide when taking antidepressants, including teens with bipolar disorder, a family history of bipolar disorder, or a history of previous suicide attempts.

Teenagers on antidepressants should be closely monitored for any sign that the depression is getting worse. Warning signs include new or worsening symptoms of agitation, irritability, or anger. Unusual changes in behavior are also red flags

Unfortunately, no counselor or family member was watching her myspace pages or youtube videos. The red flags were certainly there.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 21, 2009, 11:45:09 AM
I don't know the boyfriends last name or first name lol. There have been some initials thrown around but I'm not sure if anyone was postively id'ed as the BF. If someone knows anything hopefully they'll throw out some hints for us.
::MonkeyConfused::
TS and I gave you the strongest hints possible.  Don't know what else to say. Check her MS friends.
It is not for certain this is the one but it points to him as the only male that close to A. However he has nothing that stands out in his profiles. Seems normal on the net.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Peace on November 21, 2009, 12:23:22 PM
I don't mean to hijack this topic, but as I have been more fully researching this today, the more I am realizing, and feel the need to share. I had no idea that these drugs were a common factor in all of these violent acts of youths. This is a Fox news report. WTH?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY0IPcTO8lM&feature=related


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 21, 2009, 01:27:54 PM
mixologist74 
Registered User   Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11 
 
According to my source, Alyssa was transferred to Biggs as of last night. Prior to that, she was in the female pod in general population, BUT under lockdown away from other inmates. 
 From WS


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 01:31:36 PM
I don't know the boyfriends last name or first name lol. There have been some initials thrown around but I'm not sure if anyone was postively id'ed as the BF. If someone knows anything hopefully they'll throw out some hints for us.
::MonkeyConfused::
TS and I gave you the strongest hints possible.  Don't know what else to say. Check her MS friends.
It is not for certain this is the one but it points to him as the only male that close to A. However he has nothing that stands out in his profiles. Seems normal on the net.

I had the BF narrowed down to two , DM being one of them.  He seems pretty normal, lots about his love for a marshall art and he was really good at it.  I am still not positive that the bf is DM as there has not been anything that points directly at him.  The Gunsmoke clue was excellent.  First part of last name rhymes with glad.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 01:32:57 PM
Online boast is dead serious

I'm Alyssa & I like 'killing people'

Alyssa Bustamante bragged on YouTube that she liked "killing people."

But no one thought much of the 15-year-old's sick boasts until she allegedly acted on them one dark day -- strangling, stabbing and slitting the throat of a 9-year-old neighbor because she "wanted to know what it felt like," she chillingly told cops.

The twisted Missouri teen lured little Elizabeth Olten to her death on Oct. 21, even digging two graves in preparation five days before the murder, according to authorities.

Bustamante led cops to the body on Oct. 23, authorities said, but refused to disclose whether the remains were in one or both of the graves.

The stunning crime has rocked tiny St. Martins, where the girls lived, and left residents wondering how even someone as troubled as Bustamante could slip so deeply into evil.

The dark picture of the teen emerged Wednesday during a Jefferson City court proceeding, where a judge ruled she would be tried as an adult for first-degree murder.

Officials testified that Bustamante tried to kill herself in 2007, leading to a 10-day stay in a mental-health center. She had also been getting treatment for depression and for cutting herself, according to the testimony.

Bustamante was being raised by her strict grandparents because her dad, Ceasar, is serving a 10-year sentence for assault and her mother, Michelle, has been beset by her own legal and personal difficulties.

Although she is an above-average student who qualified for gifted programs, Bustamante cultivated her sinister image by dressing in black shirts adorned with skull shapes and posting troubling messages and videos on the Internet.

In a YouTube video that Bustamante posted on her personal site, she is seen touching an electric fence used for livestock and laughingly encouraging her two little brothers to touch it as well and get shocked.

"The world goes by my cage and never sees me," Bustamante wrote in a Sept. 13 Twitter posting.

"Bad decisions make great stories," she wrote five days later -- a month before Elizabeth was killed.

She also made a YouTube video in which she said "killing people" and "cutting" were her hobbies.

Bustamante has tried to cut herself with her fingernails since being taken into custody.

Her attorney on Thursday asked a judge to send Bustamante to a psychiatric hospital, saying she needs "immediate psychological treatment [to] assess her current mental state and to prevent the possibility that she may harm herself."

A judge had yet to rule on that request yesterday.

If convicted, Bustamante would face life in prison without parole.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/alyssa_like_killing_people_MRcFYfQcM3mthRRLbtE3EI


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 03:24:28 PM
Biggs Forensic Center

The Biggs Forensic Center at Fulton State Hospital is unique in that it is the only maximum-security setting within the Missouri Department of Mental Health. Although it is a part of Fulton State Hospital, it is not confined to Fulton's service area of 31 counties, but rather its service area is the entire state.

Biggs is a 223 bed maximum-security psychiatric treatment facility, offering a variety of inpatient treatment services to male and female patients who have historically demonstrated dangerous behavior(s) toward others in combination with a serious psychiatric and/or personality disorder. These highly specialized services include pretrial evaluations and restoration to competency training as well as a number of treatment programs designed to serve those individuals committed for care and treatment. For those patients committed for treatment, the desired goal is progressive movement from a highly structured setting to the less restricted living situations found in Guhleman, Adult Services, or other Department of Mental Health facilities. In this manner, the patients are given the opportunity to move through a system specifically designed to provide them with an increased emphasis on demonstrated acceptable standards of social and behavioral responsibility. Treatment programs within Biggs include Social Learning, Cognitive Behavioral Rehabilitation, Aggression Management, Psychiatric Rehabilitation, Competency Restoration, and Pre-Trial Evaluations.

The Biggs Building also includes 42 beds (30 male, 12 female) which are operated jointly by the Department of Mental Health and Department of Corrections (Biggs Correctional Treatment Unit). DOC admits inmates in need of psychiatric services within a secure setting. These treatment services are provided by Biggs staff.

http://www.dmh.missouri.gov/fulton/treat.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 03:27:11 PM
Workers feel unsafe at Biggs Unit

Workers say patient attacks on staff members commonplace

By Ladd Egan
Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 10:27 p.m.

FULTON --
Missouri has only one maximum-security detention facility for those deemed criminally insane.  It's called the Biggs Forensic Unit, it's part of the Fulton State Mental Hospital.  Earlier this month an employee was severely beaten by a patient at the end of a hallway inside Biggs.  He was hospitalized with numerous facial fractures.  After our report, those inside this building came to us asking for help in exposing what they call a dangerous environment for workers.  But in Thursday's FactFinder investigation, KRCG's Ladd Egan explains why even telling their story makes many uneasy.

While waiting across the street from Biggs we were told to leave.  Three police cars quickly showed up, but in the end, the police told the guard we could stay to find out more.

Andrew Dunning says a patient attack left him unable to work.  He says patient violence towards staff happened all the time.

"Every day one of us is going to get hurt.  And it's just no telling when it's going to be me," says Dunning.

I stopped by the union that represents Biggs' workers.

"Would this be the most dangerous place for workers that you know of?" I asked Jeffery Mazure, AFSCME Union Representative.

"Looking purely statistically, that for our workers...we represent workers across the State of Missouri...this is far and away the most dangerous institution where we have mental health employees working," says Mazure.

There are 12 psychiatric treatment facilities in the state.  So far this year there have been 95 incidents of patient caused staff injuries requiring more than first aid.  The Biggs Unit alone accounts for over a third of those injuries.

But, while Dunning worked at Biggs, he says all the incidents weren't reported.

"You're supposed to report it, but in all reality, it's just part of your job," says Dunning.  "They tell you when you first get hired on it's going to happen eventually," he continues.

In talking with the operating officer of the Fulton State Hospital, I was told while all violent incidents are unfortunate, some are to be expected.  And when I went higher up, I was told the same by Dr. Joe Parks oversees the Fulton Hospital.

"I don't think that we will ever prevent all violence from occuring in this type of patient...in this type of setting.  These are people who are sent to us by the courts because they literally cannot be managed any place else.  These are very difficult people to work with and I think we can reduce...we can always do better, but I don't think we're going to eliminate this entirely," says Dr. Parks.

I spoke with a current employee who says he would get fired for talking to us.  (We hid his identity when this story aired.)

"Staff are obviously...they don't feel safe?" I asked him.

"They're not safe.  They're human punching bags, that's what they are," he says.

"Do you think any time you should expect to be punched while you're working?" I asked Mazure.

"Of course not.  For anybody to think that we simply can't do anything about keeping these facilities safer is defeatist and wrong and it fails the clients, it fails the workers, and it fails the taxpayers," says Mazure.

Employees say they feel at risk because overcrowding and understaffing.  Employees also say they feel vulnerable after the hospital did away with the use of restraints a couple of years ago.

"The bulk of injuries that occur nationally, really, in psychiatric hospitals are during incidents of seclusion and restraint...where we attempt to gain physical control of somebody.  That's where the actual injuries occur," says Dr. Parks.

Employees also complain that the patients inside Biggs are allowed to roam free.  But the Department of Mental Health says Biggs' classification as a hospital doesn't let them detain patients in cells.

Hospital administrators want more money to pay workers inside Biggs more than those working in lower security buildings.  They hope higher wages will stop the high turnover rate and even compensate for the volitile environment.

But that budget item didn't get funded this past legislative session.  Even if it passes next year, employees will have to wait until 2009 to see a difference in their paychecks.

When we asked Fulton State Hospital's operating officer about overcrowding at Biggs, she told us it is over census, but refused to say by how much.  The worker attacked earlier this month is still recovering.  The hospital is holding a benefit lunch for him Friday, August 31st.  It's in the Biggs parking lot from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.  Biggs is located at 600 East 5th Street, Fulton, MO.  The public is invited.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=47989



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 03:29:35 PM
Bustamante's friend speaks out

JEFFERSON CITY -- Alyssa Bustamante's friends paint a picture of a kind, funny, social teen - not someone capable of premeditated murder.

"Before all this she was a different person," said a close friend of Bustamante who didn't want to be identified. "This wasn't how I knew her."

Bustamante's friend knew her from church and junior high and said she liked to write poems and liked to joke around.

"She was always so sweet and everybody loved her, she was just amazing," she said. "Who can really, honestly believe their friend would be a murderer?"

Who is Alyssa Bustamante?

Alyssa Bustamante, at her core, seems to be torn between two worlds. She never missed class, was an A and B student and friends say she was talkative, social and liked to meet new people.

Online, though, she rebelled. On Twitter, she said she hated authority and wrote: "Bad decisions make great stories." On YouTube, she listed her hobbies as "killing people" and "cutting."

Bustamante was being treated for cutting herself, according to court testimony. It's something her friends say was a cry for attention but not something she openly talked about.

"It's not like she kept it private," her friend remembered about Bustamante's cutting. "People would see her wrist. She'd just be like 'Oh well it's whatever' and kind of laugh it off. She really didn't seem to care much about herself."

Bustamante also wrestled with depression, trying to kill herself in September 2007. She spent 10 days at the Mid-Missouri Mental Health hospital and has had treatment ever since.

"Well she was obviously on the anti-depressants," her friend said. "We would always go upstairs and she'd be like, 'I have to take my medicine.'"

Since Bustamante's arrest, she's been treated again for scratching her arms with her fingernails and threatening to harm herself.

'Not the Alyssa that I knew'

Her friend says reaction at the school has been "shocked and confused and crazy."

"Everybody's spreading rumors and things are going on everywhere," she said. "But I think people are trying to find an answer, trying to find some way to explain it. And basically just try to understand but there is no explanation, really."

Bustamante's friend says the murder, and the fact that her friend is a suspect, has been hard to comprehend. She's left class crying on occasion and says the school has been helpful in providing counseling and support.

She showed us an oversized colorful red jacket with cats and dogs on it that Bustamante left at her house. It was this playful side of Bustamante that her friend knew, not the portrait of an accused child killer.

"Before this, before all this, she was a normal 15-year-old girl," her friend said. "This really isn't her. This was not the Alyssa that I knew."

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391

Trish been talking to the media some more?   ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 03:32:57 PM
A Bleak Outlook for Public Defenders

JEFFERSON CITY - The Missouri Bar Association heard Friday about a report that states Missouri's public defender system is on the "brink of collapse."

One member of the Public Defenders Commission said the state must act now.

More than 400 lawyers crowded into the Missouri Ballroom for the Missouri Bar Association's fall committee meeting, much like case files crowded into a long row of filing cabinets. This glut of cases is central to the problem public defenders in Missouri face.

"What they found, in relationship to other standards, was that we were way out of whack," Doug Copeland of the Public Defenders' Commission said.

The board of governors heard results of a study that said the state's defenders aren't able to keep their heads above water.

"Looking forward is rather bleak," Copeland said. "Obviously, we're back into a cycle of there not being a lot of resources that are available to the state."

It's the underwhelming economy that is causing public defenders to be overwhelmed. Low state revenue has ruled out adding more defenders to the system. Most are working more than the recommended number of hours - some as much as 100% more. Without the money to fix the system, the meeting was to bring the public defenders up to speed and give a report of the current status.

Copeland still calls the public defenders a good system, expressing hope for the future of the program.

The report suggested decriminalizing minor crimes that don't typically result in jail time. This would cut the number of cases public defenders must handle.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/13deb4f0-80ce-0971-0057-0feb15c350ae


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 21, 2009, 05:58:53 PM
On the topic of who alyssa's boyfriend is...

I ran into a guy that I graduated with today, and he told me (over the course of a two hour convo) one of his cousins was distraught that he was dating alyssa when she did this. I know he is a minor so I can't give out his name, but his intials are D.N.

I've been trying to find his name online for a for about 20 minutes but can't. However, I do know that D.N. is about 16 and goes to JCHS (I had met him once before a while me and my friend were in HS)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 21, 2009, 06:13:23 PM
On the topic of who alyssa's boyfriend is...

I ran into a guy that I graduated with today, and he told me (over the course of a two hour convo) one of his cousins was distraught that he was dating alyssa when she did this. I know he is a minor so I can't give out his name, but his intials are D.N.

I've been trying to find his name online for a for about 20 minutes but can't. However, I do know that D.N. is about 16 and goes to JCHS (I had met him once before a while me and my friend were in HS)

Did you mean D.M. ? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 06:14:38 PM
I just did a quick search of employee injuries at Texas Mental inst  equivalent of Briggs, and found NOTA. Those reports are scary for workers.  I also believe it is ridiculous for the state not to "fix" things, in the mental hospitals. It is very disturbing to me. I worked in corrections for five years, my grandparents and great grand parents all worked corrections (all in Texas) Texas is one of the most under staffed prsion systems national, due mostly to the massive amounts of prisons we have state wide. Yes in Texas we do have employee injury, but I would wager a bet, nothing like what the article on Briggs is describing.. and we probaly have 3 times the units Mo does.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 21, 2009, 06:37:21 PM
Someone asked what Alyssapocal means well apocalypse means;

                                            1. prophetic of devastation or ultimate doom
If you put the two together and drop the lypse then I think it speaks for itself.  I guess her best friend does know her.  In the words of evil Casey Anthony, "a waste, a huge waste" and I am referring to AB.  I don't often say this but why didn't she just do herself in while videoing it.  That way she would know what it was like to die and we would still have Elizabeth.
::MonkeyTease::
Alyssa Apocalypse is ANOTHER troubled girl but is not Alyssa Bustamante.  This girl's parents better keep a close eye on her too!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 21, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
On the topic of who alyssa's boyfriend is...


I ran into a guy that I graduated with today, and he told me (over the course of a two hour convo) one of his cousins was distraught that he was dating alyssa when she did this. I know he is a minor so I can't give out his name, but his intials are D.N.

I've been trying to find his name online for a for about 20 minutes but can't. However, I do know that D.N. is about 16 and goes to JCHS (I had met him once before a while me and my friend were in HS)

Did you mean D.M. ? 
   Those D.N. initials were the first ones I had ever heard, then it was stated to be D.M. so thought first one was wrong.  I have never found a D.N. among Alyssa's friends on her myspace, facebook or those of any of her myspace facebook friends friends lists.   So now I am puzzled again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 21, 2009, 06:45:50 PM
On the topic of who alyssa's boyfriend is...

I ran into a guy that I graduated with today, and he told me (over the course of a two hour convo) one of his cousins was distraught that he was dating alyssa when she did this. I know he is a minor so I can't give out his name, but his intials are D.N.

I've been trying to find his name online for a for about 20 minutes but can't. However, I do know that D.N. is about 16 and goes to JCHS (I had met him once before a while me and my friend were in HS)

Did you mean D.M. ? 

No I meant D.N.

Think of what a room is if it sets off allegeries :)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 21, 2009, 06:46:47 PM
Someone asked what Alyssapocal means well apocalypse means;

                                            1. prophetic of devastation or ultimate doom
If you put the two together and drop the lypse then I think it speaks for itself.  I guess her best friend does know her.  In the words of evil Casey Anthony, "a waste, a huge waste" and I am referring to AB.  I don't often say this but why didn't she just do herself in while videoing it.  That way she would know what it was like to die and we would still have Elizabeth.
::MonkeyTease::
Alyssa Apocalypse is ANOTHER troubled girl but is not Alyssa Bustamante.  This girl's parents better keep a close eye on her too!

Karen,
AlyssaApocal came up because her "friend" Trisha/Smooth Criminal posted on her MS recently that she was missing AlyssaApocal which was the first time she referred to her in that way.  Some of us were investigating the name/term and suffice it to say that as per usual with this Trisha girl, it was nothing positive nor helpful.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 07:14:23 PM
On the topic of who alyssa's boyfriend is...


I ran into a guy that I graduated with today, and he told me (over the course of a two hour convo) one of his cousins was distraught that he was dating alyssa when she did this. I know he is a minor so I can't give out his name, but his intials are D.N.

I've been trying to find his name online for a for about 20 minutes but can't. However, I do know that D.N. is about 16 and goes to JCHS (I had met him once before a while me and my friend were in HS)

Did you mean D.M. ? 
   Those D.N. initials were the first ones I had ever heard, then it was stated to be D.M. so thought first one was wrong.  I have never found a D.N. among Alyssa's friends on her myspace, facebook or those of any of her myspace facebook friends friends lists.   So now I am puzzled again.


DN were also the first initials I was given..by whom I have no idea....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 07:16:16 PM
Ok got a first name..can we get a hint on last???


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 21, 2009, 07:21:26 PM
Ok got a first name..can we get a hint on last???
Does the first name rhyme with Rusty? ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 21, 2009, 07:23:37 PM
Ok got a first name..can we get a hint on last???

Yes because it is going to come out sooner or later but I can't stop obsessing over this case. I will spend hundreds more hours probably trying to figure the last name out and for the life of me I cannot find a last name that goes with the first!!   Not many n last names in that town it seems like.
Please some hint no matter how obscure would mean so much.  Thank you Shinju - especially since I am your fan club president. LOL


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 21, 2009, 07:36:21 PM
I just did a quick search of employee injuries at Texas Mental inst  equivalent of Briggs, and found NOTA. Those reports are scary for workers.  I also believe it is ridiculous for the state not to "fix" things, in the mental hospitals. It is very disturbing to me. I worked in corrections for five years, my grandparents and great grand parents all worked corrections (all in Texas) Texas is one of the most under staffed prsion systems national, due mostly to the massive amounts of prisons we have state wide. Yes in Texas we do have employee injury, but I would wager a bet, nothing like what the article on Briggs is describing.. and we probaly have 3 times the units Mo does.
TxFlame, if Alyssa were in Texas, would they send her (if she was truly crazy) to Vernon State Hospital? Isn't that where they send the murdering crazy people? TIA JSM


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 21, 2009, 07:50:39 PM
Many murdering crazy people go to prison for LIFE/w / parole or they get the chair ;)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 07:53:32 PM
Found this comment on MS, between two JC girls discussing this case...

Oct 25 2009 6:26 PM

Yeahh,
i kno aint it sad =(
a 15 year old kid could kill someone. thats crazzyy!!
did u hear the whole story how the boy took the police to the bodyy and how they were saying they walked over her two times cuz the body was very well hidden or w.e
thats f****d up..

The girl who posted this is a minor..but she posted on a 21 yr olds MS....so let me know what info I can give!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 21, 2009, 07:56:29 PM
Many murdering crazy people go to prison for LIFE/w / parole or they get the chair ;)
I prefer they get the chair or a needle in the arm Nut.  ::MonkeyBike::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 07:56:39 PM
I just did a quick search of employee injuries at Texas Mental inst  equivalent of Briggs, and found NOTA. Those reports are scary for workers.  I also believe it is ridiculous for the state not to "fix" things, in the mental hospitals. It is very disturbing to me. I worked in corrections for five years, my grandparents and great grand parents all worked corrections (all in Texas) Texas is one of the most under staffed prsion systems national, due mostly to the massive amounts of prisons we have state wide. Yes in Texas we do have employee injury, but I would wager a bet, nothing like what the article on Briggs is describing.. and we probaly have 3 times the units Mo does.
TxFlame, if Alyssa were in Texas, would they send her (if she was truly crazy) to Vernon State Hospital? Isn't that where they send the murdering crazy people? TIA JSM


Never heard of that one, The one I know we used from the prisons is Skyview, the prison part of Rusk State Hospital in Rusk Texas.. The women can go to Mt View in gatesville for 48 hrs, and then either back to unit of assignment or on to Skyview. There are like 3 other smaller level "psych" units, Jester is one and cant remember the other 2.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 07:58:22 PM
Found this comment on MS, between two JC girls discussing this case...

Oct 25 2009 6:26 PM

Yeahh,
i kno aint it sad =(
a 15 year old kid could kill someone. thats crazzyy!!
did u hear the whole story how the boy took the police to the bodyy and how they were saying they walked over her two times cuz the body was very well hidden or w.e
thats ***** up..

The girl who posted this is a minor..but she posted on a 21 yr olds MS....so let me know what info I can give!!!

Srry menat to edit this before I posted it, to get foul language out..if a mod can edit the original I would appreciate it


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 21, 2009, 08:06:38 PM
Many murdering crazy people go to prison for LIFE/w / parole or they get the chair ;)
I prefer they get the chair or a needle in the arm Nut.  ::MonkeyBike::

Indeed.....and I do not believe for one second that she did not know right from wrong. SHE KNEW! I don't care if she is 12...she knew it was wrong, she made her choices and now she must pay the ultimate price. She may be crazy, but she is not insane!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 08:17:46 PM
Many murdering crazy people go to prison for LIFE/w / parole or they get the chair ;)

I guess it is my history of being a prison brat..but my theory has always been if it takes longer then aprox ten yrs to "reahbiltate" an offender, you might as well put them down.. I know is a little harsh, but I got tired of seeing the same faces return time and time again, never learning... only adding th their victims list.. I am not syaing NO ONE can be reahbilitated, I am saying those that wont be, need to be gone!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 21, 2009, 08:55:18 PM
I just did a quick search of employee injuries at Texas Mental inst  equivalent of Briggs, and found NOTA. Those reports are scary for workers.  I also believe it is ridiculous for the state not to "fix" things, in the mental hospitals. It is very disturbing to me. I worked in corrections for five years, my grandparents and great grand parents all worked corrections (all in Texas) Texas is one of the most under staffed prsion systems national, due mostly to the massive amounts of prisons we have state wide. Yes in Texas we do have employee injury, but I would wager a bet, nothing like what the article on Briggs is describing.. and we probaly have 3 times the units Mo does.
TxFlame, if Alyssa were in Texas, would they send her (if she was truly crazy) to Vernon State Hospital? Isn't that where they send the murdering crazy people? TIA JSM


Never heard of that one, The one I know we used from the prisons is Skyview, the prison part of Rusk State Hospital in Rusk Texas.. The women can go to Mt View in gatesville for 48 hrs, and then either back to unit of assignment or on to Skyview. There are like 3 other smaller level "psych" units, Jester is one and cant remember the other 2.
I know of Rusk, but I thought that most of the really "crazy" ones went to Vernon. The reason I was asking, is Vernon reminded me of that "hospital" they may be sending AB. Thanks for answering me. JSM


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 21, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
Many murdering crazy people go to prison for LIFE/w / parole or they get the chair ;)
I prefer they get the chair or a needle in the arm Nut.  ::MonkeyBike::

Indeed.....and I do not believe for one second that she did not know right from wrong. SHE KNEW! I don't care if she is 12...she knew it was wrong, she made her choices and now she must pay the ultimate price. She may be crazy, but she is not insane!
ITA Nut, she KNEW right from wrong and that makes her NOT criminally insane. So I hope AB gets the chair/needle or LWOP. Whatever she gets it better be a long long sentence, she deserves it. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 21, 2009, 09:59:44 PM
On the topic of who alyssa's boyfriend is...

I ran into a guy that I graduated with today, and he told me (over the course of a two hour convo) one of his cousins was distraught that he was dating alyssa when she did this. I know he is a minor so I can't give out his name, but his intials are D.N.

I've been trying to find his name online for a for about 20 minutes but can't. However, I do know that D.N. is about 16 and goes to JCHS (I had met him once before a while me and my friend were in HS)

I think D.M. was possibly a boy that dated her, but not her current BF. Good possibility that the D.N. is her current BF, and the boy she was with Thurs. etc. I only say that because they had arrested or charge the current BF for drugs and a threat, and I don't think that would fit for D.M. as I know someone's son that hangs out with him. I might be able to get some info next week on this D.N. boy.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 10:07:56 PM
On the topic of who alyssa's boyfriend is...

I ran into a guy that I graduated with today, and he told me (over the course of a two hour convo) one of his cousins was distraught that he was dating alyssa when she did this. I know he is a minor so I can't give out his name, but his intials are D.N.

I've been trying to find his name online for a for about 20 minutes but can't. However, I do know that D.N. is about 16 and goes to JCHS (I had met him once before a while me and my friend were in HS)

I think D.M. was possibly a boy that dated her, but not her current BF. Good possibility that the D.N. is her current BF, and the boy she was with Thurs. etc. I only say that because they had arrested or charge the current BF for drugs and a threat, and I don't think that would fit for D.M. as I know someone's son that hangs out with him. I might be able to get some info next week on this D.N. boy.






Have we figured out what the N is..or a rhyming word for it???


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 10:14:15 PM
I just did a quick search of employee injuries at Texas Mental inst  equivalent of Briggs, and found NOTA. Those reports are scary for workers.  I also believe it is ridiculous for the state not to "fix" things, in the mental hospitals. It is very disturbing to me. I worked in corrections for five years, my grandparents and great grand parents all worked corrections (all in Texas) Texas is one of the most under staffed prsion systems national, due mostly to the massive amounts of prisons we have state wide. Yes in Texas we do have employee injury, but I would wager a bet, nothing like what the article on Briggs is describing.. and we probaly have 3 times the units Mo does.
TxFlame, if Alyssa were in Texas, would they send her (if she was truly crazy) to Vernon State Hospital? Isn't that where they send the murdering crazy people? TIA JSM


Never heard of that one, The one I know we used from the prisons is Skyview, the prison part of Rusk State Hospital in Rusk Texas.. The women can go to Mt View in gatesville for 48 hrs, and then either back to unit of assignment or on to Skyview. There are like 3 other smaller level "psych" units, Jester is one and cant remember the other 2.
I know of Rusk, but I thought that most of the really "crazy" ones went to Vernon. The reason I was asking, is Vernon reminded me of that "hospital" they may be sending AB. Thanks for answering me. JSM

  OT I just looked up Vernon and it is in North Texas... It maybe used..It is hard for me to say..Most of Texas' medical is covered by UTMB, BUT a portion of TDCJ is covered by TT in the northern part... So it is possible they use Vernon up in N Texas.. But for the most part Skyview is the main one, there is also a psych prison type hospital/unit somewhere in the Dallas Fw area... Last I heard Andrea Yates was in there. The system is massive, and soo spread out.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 21, 2009, 10:26:45 PM
Found this comment on MS, between two JC girls discussing this case...

Oct 25 2009 6:26 PM

Yeahh,
i kno aint it sad =(
a 15 year old kid could kill someone. thats crazzyy!!
did u hear the whole story how the boy took the police to the bodyy and how they were saying they walked over her two times cuz the body was very well hidden or w.e
thats f****d up..

The girl who posted this is a minor..but she posted on a 21 yr olds MS....so let me know what info I can give!!!

Holy smokes Txsflame...seriously...you gotta tell me how you find stuff like this!  I am so ignorant on the whole MS thing and cannot figure out how to find anything worthwhile there.  This is a great find!  Gossip or not, it clearly not something I've heard/read yet!  I need to attend ScaredMonkeys University so I can learn all the tricks of the trade!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 10:32:47 PM
Found this comment on MS, between two JC girls discussing this case...

Oct 25 2009 6:26 PM

Yeahh,
i kno aint it sad =(
a 15 year old kid could kill someone. thats crazzyy!!
did u hear the whole story how the boy took the police to the bodyy and how they were saying they walked over her two times cuz the body was very well hidden or w.e
thats f****d up..

The girl who posted this is a minor..but she posted on a 21 yr olds MS....so let me know what info I can give!!!

Holy smokes Txsflame...seriously...you gotta tell me how you find stuff like this!  I am so ignorant on the whole MS thing and cannot figure out how to find anything worthwhile there.  This is a great find!  Gossip or not, it clearly not something I've heard/read yet!  I need to attend ScaredMonkeys University so I can learn all the tricks of the trade!

I was TRYING to track down someone with the initials DN, using the first name we have "guessed" so I entered the fisrt name in myspace search and JC in the place, and was going through alist of males with that first naem in Jefferson city... Well I foubnd one I thought was him(it wasnt) BUT on his MS he had a friend whose MS said RIP ELizabeth Olten, so of course I visited hers, and it was her and another girl talking through comments about the case early on... I am not usually that lucky with MS eitehr, I usually have to get my DD to find stuff on there, but am learning quick with this case..

 ANother note, if you click on Alyssas picture it says her myspace has been deleted...

and One of the twins apparently at one time had a RIP Elizabeth on their MS, but it isnt there anymore.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 10:34:47 PM
Karen K any luck with DN??? I cant find anything on MS, fixing to try FB


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 10:54:00 PM
Karen K any luck with DN??? I cant find anything on MS, fixing to try FB

 Okay went through all D**** N____ on MS and FB and nothing..BTW there are only like 3 and they are all older!!!! Think maybe DN doesnt have a online prescence!!??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 21, 2009, 11:31:09 PM
Karen K any luck with DN??? I cant find anything on MS, fixing to try FB

 Okay went through all D**** N____ on MS and FB and nothing..BTW there are only like 3 and they are all older!!!! Think maybe DN doesnt have a online prescence!!??
::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: I am stumped. I had already looked for DN since about the end of the first week and never found one then either!!!! I have a headache from searching.   I remember being able to write a few words in google like "I know who Alyssa Bustamante's boyfriend is" or  __tin is Alyssa's boyfriend or things like that - but there is no conversation among anyone on line myspace facebook etc. about the boyfriend. Is is plain spooky the coverup..   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 21, 2009, 11:47:11 PM
Karen K any luck with DN??? I cant find anything on MS, fixing to try FB

 Okay went through all D**** N____ on MS and FB and nothing..BTW there are only like 3 and they are all older!!!! Think maybe DN doesnt have a online prescence!!??
::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: I am stumped. I had already looked for DN since about the end of the first week and never found one then either!!!! I have a headache from searching.   I remember being able to write a few words in google like "I know who Alyssa Bustamante's boyfriend is" or  __tin is Alyssa's boyfriend or things like that - but there is no conversation among anyone on line myspace facebook etc. about the boyfriend. Is is plain spooky the coverup..   
I've been searching all day too...I asked earlier but didn't get an answer, does his first name rhyme with Rusty? ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 21, 2009, 11:55:35 PM
Karen K any luck with DN??? I cant find anything on MS, fixing to try FB

 Okay went through all D**** N____ on MS and FB and nothing..BTW there are only like 3 and they are all older!!!! Think maybe DN doesnt have a online prescence!!??
::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: I am stumped. I had already looked for DN since about the end of the first week and never found one then either!!!! I have a headache from searching.   I remember being able to write a few words in google like "I know who Alyssa Bustamante's boyfriend is" or  __tin is Alyssa's boyfriend or things like that - but there is no conversation among anyone on line myspace facebook etc. about the boyfriend. Is is plain spooky the coverup..   
I've been searching all day too...I asked earlier but didn't get an answer, does his first name rhyme with Rusty? ::MonkeyRoll::
Or does it rhyme with Justin???


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 21, 2009, 11:58:30 PM
Karen K any luck with DN??? I cant find anything on MS, fixing to try FB

 Okay went through all D**** N____ on MS and FB and nothing..BTW there are only like 3 and they are all older!!!! Think maybe DN doesnt have a online prescence!!??
::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: I am stumped. I had already looked for DN since about the end of the first week and never found one then either!!!! I have a headache from searching.   I remember being able to write a few words in google like "I know who Alyssa Bustamante's boyfriend is" or  __tin is Alyssa's boyfriend or things like that - but there is no conversation among anyone on line myspace facebook etc. about the boyfriend. Is is plain spooky the coverup..   
I've been searching all day too...I asked earlier but didn't get an answer, does his first name rhyme with Rusty? ::MonkeyRoll::
Or does it rhyme with Justin???

I checked the spelling of both rhyming with rusty and Justin and still nothing..btw YES..


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 12:07:25 AM
Nana  that is what Shinju posted as hint  but it is the allergy irritant he used as hint.  So change the letter. I think it may be short for the more formal name that ends in tin.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 01:03:56 AM
Good Evening Monkeys,

Wow a lot has transpired with AB. That she was transferred to the Hospital and all. I wonder Why? She obviously has the brain power to plan, plot and murder ... Why did the Judge send her to the State Mental facility. That does not make any sense to me. Other than possibly it will be used by her Atty. That if she acts out * during her stay*  and starts screaming like a Flip Out and or Hurts "herself" .. I don't know. Somehow I feel it is a bargaining chip. That they are going for an Insanity Plea. That it really does not have to do with anything at all within AB's mental state.

They gave Casey Anthony a Psych Exam at the Orange County Jail. They didn't remove her. I don't believe they sent Melissa Huckaby away to a Mental Hospital to be evaluated. And she previously swallowed Razor blades...... right before she was arrested. MH has a prior issues and had been court ordered counseling etc... during her Youth. She as well attempted suicide.

Sounds like to me that the System is buying AB time for what reason ?? I don't know.
At this point her age is out of the question. They are trying her as an Adult.
So what gives??

 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 01:16:30 AM
After reading back and seeing the word used by AB's " Friend"

alyssaAPOCALYPSE   ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I found a new person that is posting the same Header on their my space.

I do NOT understand these girls at all.  This gal says she is in Illinois. I highly doubt she is. She is more than likely a local to Jefferson City.

http://www.myspace.com/burymeinblackx3   (( what happened to being Cute and Funny )) at the age of 15.

Bury me in Black ??? x 3 ......... Cough.

She is set to private but I cached the page and it says so sweetly

alyssaAPOCALYPSE™
YourWorst Nightmare

Female
17 years old
Cemetery Drive, Illinois
United States


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 01:25:39 AM
After reading back and seeing the word used by AB's " Friend"

alyssaAPOCALYPSE   ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I found a new person that is posting the same Header on their my space.

I do NOT understand these girls at all.  This gal says she is in Illinois. I highly doubt she is. She is more than likely a local to Jefferson City.

http://www.myspace.com/burymeinblackx3   (( what happened to being Cute and Funny )) at the age of 15.

Bury me in Black ??? x 3 ......... Cough.

She is set to private but I cached the page and it says so sweetly

alyssaAPOCALYPSE™
YourWorst Nightmare

Female
17 years old
Cemetery Drive, Illinois
United States

Yes I think someone took me wrong earlier   I know that Tricia Rhodes posted a version of alyssa apocalypse but there are real ones out there and they are VERY disturbed.  I posted a few nights ago about how many like this I come across. It is rampant. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 01:51:09 AM
KarenK,
Granted I do not know the back grounds of these girls from adam. I have to say the words that they choose to use within their profiles are just " over my head"

They for the most part ( I believe) do not understand the actual meanings of the words they do use. If they did, they would not use them. Its not entertaining, its not *Cool and its certainly not healthy ........because then others think oh so and so uses it ... I will too.
Its a Shame. A total shame. What is screams to me is there is no one monitoring their social sites within the home. No body is home or is showing interest in these kids social sites. No Parental Guidance. No boundaries what so ever. At 15 that is bad enough, just wait till they turn 18, too late then. They will be out of school and living in the basement forever. Because they Can.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 02:06:40 AM
KarenK,
Granted I do not know the back grounds of these girls from adam. I have to say the words that they choose to use within their profiles are just " over my head"

They for the most part ( I believe) do not understand the actual meanings of the words they do use. If they did, they would not use them. Its not entertaining, its not *Cool and its certainly not healthy ........because then others think oh so and so uses it ... I will too.
Its a Shame. A total shame. What is screams to me is there is no one monitoring their social sites within the home. No body is home or is showing interest in these kids social sites. No Parental Guidance. No boundaries what so ever. At 15 that is bad enough, just wait till they turn 18, too late then. They will be out of school and living in the basement forever. Because they Can.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Deenie they throw around words like kill, torture, blood, and hate with abandon and it is not a few, it is a LOT!!!  I don't know if it is taken from the violent video games, movies like Twilight, but there are so many young people who feel hopeless about life and don't believe they have a future. Look at the gang violence and drive by shootings. This is not like anything when I grew up in the 60's. 

On another note, someone here knows how to access public arrest records.could we find out at the BF there? Did I hear he was arrested for drugs?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 02:14:38 AM
KarenK,
Granted I do not know the back grounds of these girls from adam. I have to say the words that they choose to use within their profiles are just " over my head"

They for the most part ( I believe) do not understand the actual meanings of the words they do use. If they did, they would not use them. Its not entertaining, its not *Cool and its certainly not healthy ........because then others think oh so and so uses it ... I will too.
Its a Shame. A total shame. What is screams to me is there is no one monitoring their social sites within the home. No body is home or is showing interest in these kids social sites. No Parental Guidance. No boundaries what so ever. At 15 that is bad enough, just wait till they turn 18, too late then. They will be out of school and living in the basement forever. Because they Can.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Deenie they throw around words like kill, torture, blood, and hate with abandon and it is not a few, it is a LOT!!!  I don't know if it is taken from the violent video games, movies like Twilight, but there are so many young people who feel hopeless about life and don't believe they have a future. Look at the gang violence and drive by shootings. This is not like anything when I grew up in the 60's. 

On another note, someone here knows how to access public arrest records.could we find out at the BF there? Did I hear he was arrested for drugs?
I did find a site I will find it again. I have no clue of BF's name though.
Brb


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 02:18:01 AM
We think first name is like something  people have allergies to sounds like _usty. Last name should start with N.  That's all I know.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 02:18:37 AM
KarenK

I believe this is the site for court records: https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/base/welcome.do

This site is Mo Dept of Corrections: http://www.doc.mo.gov/

Jefferson City Mo site: http://www.jeffcitymo.org/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 02:21:24 AM
 ::MonkeyDance:: Thank you. Here I go!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 02:26:46 AM
This is the website for Cole County Sheriff
http://www.colecountysheriff.org/

I was on it the other night and was looking at the SO's ( sex offenders) that are listed in Cole County * Jefferson City primarily. What was really disturbing to me was that so many of the Perps have charges of Child molestation and child pornography. Not charges between two adults. The other thing that stuck me greatly is that there is * Many FEMALE offenders listed.
Its a small community and I found it just Uck you know reading and seeing photos. But to see so many Women listed was really strange. Young Women.

I have to give them LE props though. They show multiple photos of these Perps, some even almost look like they were taken at home. That and they list their place of work, their license plate number and Make Model of their Cars. Never seen that before on a sheriff's site. I say bravo for LE. More info known the better. Some ppl get put on the list for Peeing in public and its goes as far as NO One can fathom within Sex Crimes/charges/arrests.  The more info listed it is important for all and everyone in the community.





 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 02:29:40 AM
::MonkeyDance:: Thank you. Here I go!!

Go Go Go  ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Deenie on November 22, 2009, 02:37:42 AM
We think first name is like something  people have allergies to sounds like _usty. Last name should start with N.  That's all I know.

I think I figured out the first name. Its a chore that you do .. using Pledge within your Home.

add IN .........  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 03:32:03 AM
 ::MonkeyNoNo::Darn you need a last name to records search!!Yes it is a chore some just the word with y and others think word with in.  Now if someone would ONLY hint last name we would be done. ::MonkeySkate::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 22, 2009, 04:31:37 AM
type smilgis into the rhymezone.com and the first name rhymes with rusty.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 22, 2009, 09:43:43 AM

IMHO it is pretty uncooperative to have a missing girl in the neighborhood, and take off with the POI to a pysch ward..INSTEAD of to the police. The LE coulda have found Elizabeth 10/21, had the grandparents NOT taken her to St Louis. This information is in the newspaper articles I posted above this original post last night.

I agree, Txsflame! 

We've read that Alyssa's family went over to Elizabeth's house that night, that Alyssa stayed home and took a shower.  So it must have been after they all got back that the g'parents took Alyssa to the psych ward?  IMO, they had to have known.  Wouldn't this be considered obstruction of justice/aiding and abetting at the least?  And just like the A's, am guessing they'll get away with it!   ::MonkeyMad:: 

 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 22, 2009, 09:45:51 AM
Quote from: KarenK
Now if someone would ONLY hint last name we would be done..

Let me check with my source next week on the whole D.H. BF name. I will post an update here as soon as I get something back, might be Tues. I would guess you won't find any 'records' online, as he is a juvi.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: tomsmith99 on November 22, 2009, 09:49:17 AM

IMHO it is pretty uncooperative to have a missing girl in the neighborhood, and take off with the POI to a pysch ward..INSTEAD of to the police. The LE coulda have found Elizabeth 10/21, had the grandparents NOT taken her to St Louis. This information is in the newspaper articles I posted above this original post last night.

I agree, Txsflame! 

We've read that Alyssa's family went over to Elizabeth's house that night, that Alyssa stayed home and took a shower.  So it must have been after they all got back that the g'parents took Alyssa to the psych ward?  IMO, they had to have known.  Wouldn't this be considered obstruction of justice/aiding and abetting at the least?  And just like the A's, am guessing they'll get away with it!   ::MonkeyMad:: 


I think it was determined that a court record or media report had that date wrong. Alyssa was taken to a St. Louis Psych hospital on 8/24, Saturday, after she was in custody. Her GP did not take her Weds. night, as she went to school on Thurs. not sure she was in the school that day, but on school property with her BF.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 22, 2009, 09:50:10 AM
Am way back there <------- pedaling fast, trying to get caught up!   ::MonkeyBike:: 


Just want to mention how surreal it is, reading actual names instead of initials.  Have to stop sometimes and translate back into initials to recognize who tis that's being referred to.  Kind of seems like a whole different case now!   ::MonkeyHaHa::   




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 09:53:55 AM
maybe this one?

http://www.myspace.com/11ozzy11


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 22, 2009, 10:09:10 AM
O/T

Fanny Mae - Hope you don't mind, I 'stole' this lil guy, too cute!  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/soapbox.gif)

 ::MonkeyDance::

Is there a smiley site you can share where you are finding these?  I have several of this lil guy and love em!  I can always wait and snag em as you use them, but hey, am not getting any younger here.  hehe..

 ::MonkeyJnBox::

 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 10:25:12 AM
type smilgis into the rhymezone.com and the first name rhymes with rusty.

could this be related?

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=nilges+missouri&fb=1&gl=us&hq=nilges&hnear=missouri&cid=9667933863922264845


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 10:35:19 AM
ok, I think I figured out DN -

Check the survived by, particularly the names of the grandchildren:

http://www.mortonchapel.com/sitemaker/sites/morton0/obit.cgi?user=lorettanilges


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 10:41:45 AM
related?  hopefully someone will respond to my posts to let me know if I am on the right track.

http://www.wesleyumcjc.org/staff/tammy.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 22, 2009, 10:51:26 AM
BLOCKED WEBSITE

strangely, if http://www.myspace.com/11ozzy11 is his MS (which I have no idea but someone mentioned it as a possibility), he lists himself as Wiccan, not Methodist.  

the black sheep, so to speak.

interesting theory, but couldn't find anything about him online.  as soon as NorthernRose and Co. get here, I'm sure they'll have this cracked in no time flat!   ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 22, 2009, 11:01:14 AM
uhhhh, on second thought, I just checked out that kid's MS photos.  I don't know if he's D.N. or if he's related to the FUMC family connection, but that dude is MESSED UP and clearly has some problems...especially drug related.  Lord help us that these parents have no clue what their kids are doing.  he's posting those pix and his profile isn't even set to private!  Definitely friends with some of the same kids Alyssa and her friends have.  thinking this may be the kid.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 11:10:51 AM
uhhhh, on second thought, I just checked out that kid's MS photos.  I don't know if he's D.N. or if he's related to the FUMC family connection, but that dude is MESSED UP and clearly has some problems...especially drug related.  Lord help us that these parents have no clue what their kids are doing.  he's posting those pix and his profile isn't even set to private!  Definitely friends with some of the same kids Alyssa and her friends have.  thinking this may be the kid.

yes, and if you click "view more" on his status and moods, he is really p.o.'d right now and mentions a lawyer.

also, in one of his photos he is wearing a pink rubber bracelet - one of his friends comments that she remembers that bracelet as a "Jesus loves me" bracelet.  a wiccan with a Christian bracelet.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 11:12:31 AM
one last thing:

if this DN is a minor, his records won't be available.

(thanks for replying, Queenie!  I wasn't sure if what I found made any sense)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Lenie on November 22, 2009, 11:17:10 AM
JMO  I worked at our local library for a few years and some of the kids that came in there really had some crazy MS. Not all parents know how to search the internet or MS for their kids. A lot will have the MS that mommy and daddy can see and know about, then have another MS that the parents know nothing about. As the library offers free public internet, we are also responsible for "policing" what kids are doing on the internet. There were several that I thought had nude pictures up on their screens so I would go to MS and type in their names. A 13 year old in a bathing suit that I would be ashamed for my grown daughter to where, provocative poses on their beds, nothing but bra and panties, guys with pictures of themselves with the top of their pubic hair showing and no other clothes. After only a few months I started teaching 2 (among others) classes, one was for parents "Finding your child in cyber space" and one for the kids "So you think they can't find you", the latter class was to let the kids know about pedophiles and such, and the dangers of putting too much out there. In the teens class I would take the names of all of the kids attending and type them into a search engine so that they could see what was coming up about them. Very effective class for those who took it. My own daughter could not believe that her daughter had another myspace. She lives in FL and I called her about what was on Shy's myspace and she got a little belligerent, told me she was looking at her myspace right now and there was nothing on it. So I told her to go to this address on myspace. She about flipped her lid.
 
Also Wicca has become much more popular with the older teens and with younger adults. Searching, searching, searching, and getting lost on the wrong path.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 22, 2009, 11:46:18 AM
Mo. teenager sent to mental hospital while facing charges in death of 9-year-old girl

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old Missouri girl has been sent to a mental hospital after her attorney said she showed signs of severe depression and anxiety.

A Cole County judge ordered 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante to be taken to the Fulton State Hospital for up to 96 hours. The teenager had been held at the Morgan County jail since being indicted Wednesday on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Elizabeth Olten on Oct. 21 because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill. They say Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/sns-ap-mo--missouri-girlslain,0,1789243.story

Still catching up, sorry if this has already been pointed out sev times.  Tried posting this but the server timed out, so am sorry if this turns out to be a repeat post.  Geeez.  Am just sorry, ok?   ::MonkeyDevil::

Didn't we read not so long ago that they were having a prob trying to figure out where to house Alyssa?  That they couldn't place her in an 'all male' facility, yet there wasn't room elsewhere, or whatever? 

And if so..... could them placing her in a psych hosp be simply a matter of doing something with her, housing her somewhere suitable....... rather than because she's all depressed and anxious?  Really..... how many folks wouldn't be severely depressed and anxious in her shoes?  Pfffffffft. 

And also... Isn't this a bit like closing the barn door after the horse got out?   ::MonkeyDevil2::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 22, 2009, 12:18:46 PM
I am still interested in Bill Currie.  I still think there is a connection.  Anyone done any further looking into it?  Or find out what the book was about?

Same here, YourMom.  I pretty much left the research on Currie, when it seemed to me that the majority didn't want to read what was being found/speculated.  I just won't be at all surprised if/when more truths on him are publically released later on down the road.   ::MonkeyNoNo::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Gizzie on November 22, 2009, 12:19:20 PM
O/T

Fanny Mae - Hope you don't mind, I 'stole' this lil guy, too cute!  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/soapbox.gif)

 ::MonkeyDance::

Is there a smiley site you can share where you are finding these?  I have several of this lil guy and love em!  I can always wait and snag em as you use them, but hey, am not getting any younger here.  hehe..

 ::MonkeyJnBox::

 



O/T...Hi ya Wyks! (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/wavehi.gif)

Would ya like these lil guys?     (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkey-on-trike.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-clapping.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-reading-1.gif)

I catch them from QuietMonkey and Brandi whenever I see them! Too cute!...So sorry for the O/T.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 22, 2009, 01:08:59 PM
maybe this one?

http://www.myspace.com/11ozzy11
I looked at this myspace and when I viewed his pics and his friends comments they left, it looks like this kids last name begins with a W. (I found info. regarding this person's last name on one of his old girlfriends albums...that left comments on his pics). The girl that left the comment's first name begins with a J. ::HelloKitty::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 01:13:12 PM
maybe this one?

http://www.myspace.com/11ozzy11
I looked at this myspace and when I viewed his pics and his friends comments they left, it looks like this kids last name begins with a W. (I found info. regarding this person's last name on one of his old girlfriends albums...that left comments on his pics). The girl that left the comment's first name begins with a J. ::HelloKitty::

nana, I think you are right that this is not the correct rhymes-with-justin.

This one has photos of a baby, and one of the comments refers to the baby as his little brother.

The rhymes-with-justin that connects with the clue that a poster gave earlier (smilgis rhyme), only has a sister.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 22, 2009, 01:25:38 PM

O/T...Hi ya Wyks! (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/wavehi.gif)

Would ya like these lil guys?     (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkey-on-trike.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-clapping.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-reading-1.gif)

I catch them from QuietMonkey and Brandi whenever I see them! Too cute!...So sorry for the O/T.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Hi Gizzie!  And thanks, yep they are too cute!  I try to snag when I see em too.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Am trying to find a smiley site for more smilies of this lil guy in particular, have a couple, want the rest.  lol  (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/wavehi.gif)

I really like the reading monkey above, thanks again for posting those! 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 22, 2009, 01:39:30 PM

O/T...Hi ya Wyks! (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/wavehi.gif)

Would ya like these lil guys?     (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkey-on-trike.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-clapping.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-reading-1.gif)

I catch them from QuietMonkey and Brandi whenever I see them! Too cute!...So sorry for the O/T.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Hi Gizzie!  And thanks, yep they are too cute!  I try to snag when I see em too.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Am trying to find a smiley site for more smilies of this lil guy in particular, have a couple, want the rest.  lol  (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/wavehi.gif)

I really like the reading monkey above, thanks again for posting those! 


A sherlock Holmes one would be cute too.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 01:44:55 PM

O/T...Hi ya Wyks! (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/wavehi.gif)

Would ya like these lil guys?     (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkey-on-trike.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-clapping.gif)       (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/monkeyguy-reading-1.gif)

I catch them from QuietMonkey and Brandi whenever I see them! Too cute!...So sorry for the O/T.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Hi Gizzie!  And thanks, yep they are too cute!  I try to snag when I see em too.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Am trying to find a smiley site for more smilies of this lil guy in particular, have a couple, want the rest.  lol  (http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv270/boboloski_arolskay/wavehi.gif)

I really like the reading monkey above, thanks again for posting those! 



hey Wyks - this site seems to have quite a few:

(http://www.thescubasite.com/smile/sign/sign0026.gif) (http://www.thescubasite.com/Scuba-Diving-News/)

http://www.mysmiley.net/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 02:20:42 PM
type smilgis into the rhymezone.com and the first name rhymes with rusty.

could this be related?

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=nilges+missouri&fb=1&gl=us&hq=nilges&hnear=missouri&cid=9667933863922264845
I found a D  with that last name but he is 29   so not him  I understand BF is a Jefferson High student


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 22, 2009, 02:38:46 PM
KarenK,
Granted I do not know the back grounds of these girls from adam. I have to say the words that they choose to use within their profiles are just " over my head"

They for the most part ( I believe) do not understand the actual meanings of the words they do use. If they did, they would not use them. Its not entertaining, its not *Cool and its certainly not healthy ........because then others think oh so and so uses it ... I will too.
Its a Shame. A total shame. What is screams to me is there is no one monitoring their social sites within the home. No body is home or is showing interest in these kids social sites. No Parental Guidance. No boundaries what so ever. At 15 that is bad enough, just wait till they turn 18, too late then. They will be out of school and living in the basement forever. Because they Can.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Deenie they throw around words like kill, torture, blood, and hate with abandon and it is not a few, it is a LOT!!!  I don't know if it is taken from the violent video games, movies like Twilight, but there are so many young people who feel hopeless about life and don't believe they have a future. Look at the gang violence and drive by shootings. This is not like anything when I grew up in the 60's. 

On another note, someone here knows how to access public arrest records.could we find out at the BF there? Did I hear he was arrested for drugs?

 Hey I even tried searching through casenet last night for D**** N___ . Well you have to add atleast Two letters..So I went thru Na Ne Ni No And Nu and NY..and nothing. But he is a minor so not sure his arrest would be on there. I also used the spelling of D ending in D***in, nad nothing..

 Todays teen language gets weirder all the time...
Sick... is good now..If a teen says "Oh man that is sick"..means that is "cool"
am trying ot think of more and cant right now..lol..
Lucky (or maybe not for me) My kids are straight up "hicks" lol and they prefer plain old fashion bad language..am baout to start using good old soap on the tongue with my 16 yr old if he doesnt clean up his mouth. But I have heard some strnage saying come out of friends of theirs. ALso with this generation of "texting" many cant spell and most talk in code, Text code.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 02:48:12 PM
 ::MonkeyConfused:: I know Deenie.  It is definitely a conundrum!!! Always wanted to use that word.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 22, 2009, 06:18:30 PM


Does anyone know where this photo came from? A date? Are there anymore? Also, How do you privately e-mail members on here ( or are we not allowed)?   THanks!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 06:37:24 PM
Click here: Elizabeth Olten pictures by crankycrankerson - Photobucket

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 22, 2009, 08:35:50 PM


Does anyone know where this photo came from? A date? Are there anymore? Also, How do you privately e-mail members on here ( or are we not allowed)?   THanks!!

PM (private messages) have been disabled at SM.  Most people that want to email with someone else create a "throw away" hotmail account or similar that they don't worry about.  Then they simply post their email address and ask if someone will email them if it can't be posted in the forum.

Most of the photos people have of Alyssa are from Myspace accounts of either Alyssa or her friends.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 22, 2009, 08:38:43 PM
 ::MonkeyWaa:: Klaas, I am sorry to be O/T, but is that your puppy dog sticking it's tongue out. If so, he/she is adorable.

TIA JSM


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 22, 2009, 08:39:39 PM
Girl, 15, is puzzler for justice system

ST. MARTINS, MO. — On her Twitter page, Alyssa Bustamante lists her location as "somewhere I don't want to be."

When she wrote that, the 15-year-old girl lived in this tiny burg of about 1,000 folks just west of Jefferson City. Now, Bustamante is somewhere else — in a jail cell — as she awaits trial on the most heinous of charges.

On Oct. 21, authorities say, Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Kay Olten.

The murder traumatized this working-class, mostly Catholic community. But it also shocked a justice system now struggling to figure out what to do with a troubled teenage girl with nowhere to go.

Does she go to the juvenile system, where she can get treatment for her mental health problems?

Or does she go to adult prison, an environment that her attorney argues she won't survive?

The decision rests with a prosecutor and judge pressured to be tough on crime, and a juvenile system asked to determine whether Bustamante is a candidate to escape the demons dancing in her head.

The fate of a 15-year-old murder suspect may hinge at least partly on a fact revealed in court on Wednesday, to the disappointment of Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem:

Missouri's nationally respected juvenile justice system has no secure place to put a 15-year-old girl accused of a violent murder.

It's a system that was built for boys.

"This is real different for all of us," said Bill Heberle, deputy director of the Division of Youth Services. At Bustamante's certification hearing, Heberle testified that the state doesn't have a secure facility — meaning one with fences and locked gates — for girls.

The judge in the case said he was disappointed in the state juvenile system's inability to house Bustamante. But the reality is, the state hasn't faced many cases such as hers.

"We simply don't receive that many young girls that are committed to us for a heinous crime," Heberle said. "Our girls tend to be more violent toward themselves."

In that regard, Bustamante fits the stereotype.

She was hospitalized two years ago at a mental hospital in mid-Missouri after a suicide attempt in which she tried to cut herself with her fingernails. It was a difficult moment in what has been a troubled upbringing.

Bustamante's father is in a Missouri prison on an assault conviction. Several years ago, Bustamante's grandmother, Karen Brooke, was awarded custody of the girl and her two younger brothers, and she moved them from California to Missouri to get a fresh start.

According to authorities, Bustamante continues to battle depression, though she has been in therapy and was prescribed the antidepressant Prozac. And despite dabbling in the dark Goth culture, school officials say, she was a good student who didn't get in trouble.

But Bustamante left an Internet trail that shows a fascination with death and pain.

On her now defunct YouTube page, she talked of hobbies such as "killing people" and "cutting." One video Bustamante made shows her and her brothers touching an electric fence to see what it felt like.

Indeed, that's why Bustamante dug two graves in the woods near her home and killed her 9-year-old neighbor, an investigator testified in court.

"She wanted to know what it felt like," said Missouri Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice.

THE 'MISSOURI MODEL'

Such gruesome details led Cole County Prosecuting Attorney Mark Richardson to say he would seek the most serious punishment possible for Bustamante: life in prison without parole.

But even if Richardson succeeds in convicting Bustamante of first-degree murder, it's still possible she will end up in the care of the state Division of Youth Services.

That's because Missouri is one of 22 states to have what is called a "dual jurisdiction" system. Under state law, if Bustamante was found guilty, a judge could consider keeping her under the care of the juvenile system — which is heavy on rehabilitation — until she is 21. At that point, another hearing would be held to determine if she was ready to be released, or sent to adult prison for the remainder of her sentence.

The "Missouri Model" is praised around the nation because its emphasis on community-based rehabilitation has produced very low recidivism rates, even among the violent criminals — most of them boys — sentenced through the juvenile system.

It's a system that works, says Harvard University professor Julie Boatright Wilson, because it balances therapy with the rights of victims and concerns about keeping the community safe.

Wilson, who last year was part of a review of Missouri's juvenile justice system that earned the prestigious Annie E. Casey Innovations Award, said that programs that focus on rehabilitation for juveniles work because those who make it through the program don't repeat their crimes.

Of the 46 juveniles who have completed the state's rehabilitation program as part of a dual jurisdiction sentence, only 10 have ended up going back to prison, said Heberle. That's nearly an 80 percent success rate, which is much higher than traditional corrections programs.

But only five girls have ever been sentenced through the program, which has been around since 1996. Three of them have completed the program and not reoffended. One, who is 17, is still in the juvenile system.

None of those girls, Heberle said, was accused of first-degree murder.

It's not that the state's program doesn't have secure facilities, it's just that they are all set up for boys. The state has seven juvenile facilities that Heberle considers "hardware secure," with fences, locked gates, alarms and metal detectors. Just below that there are facilities that are called "staff secure," such as Hogan Street in St. Louis. Such facilities sometimes house violent offenders and are staffed 24 hours a day, but they aren't necessarily fenced. There have been escapes.

Finally, there are the minimum security facilities, basically group homes, that are still staffed 24 hours a day but don't have the traditional security associated with prisons.

Heberle said the Division of Youth Services would have no choice but to take Bustamante if that's what a judge ordered.

"If it's the wishes of the court to commit this girl to us, we would make whatever modifications necessary," Heberle said. "It's a very difficult and stressful case. If I could have magically said in court that I had a 10-bed secure facility for girls, I still don't know whether he would have committed her to us."

MORE FEMALE KILLERS

Wilson said the problem of girls' being accused more frequently of increasingly violent crimes is something the nation had better prepare for.

Missouri has only one girl under the age of 18 in its adult prison population, a point that Bustamante's court-appointed attorney, Kurt Valentine, made in arguing that she belongs in the juvenile system.

But among all murders committed nationally by people 13 to 16, the percentage of cases in which the murderer was female has risen for three years straight. It's still a small number — 48 in 2008, or 10 percent of the total number of murders committed by people in that age group. But it's up from 9 percent the year before and 8 percent in 2006.

One challenge for the justice system is balancing the desire for punishment in such cases with the realities of rehabilitation.

Missouri's system works for both boys and girls, said both Wilson and Heberle. But judges and prosecutors facing pressure to be tough on crime don't always see it that way.

Take the case of Sherman Burnett. When he was 13, he grabbed a 6-year-old girl near her home in Spanish Lake and sodomized her and beat her. The judge declined dual sentencing, and Burnett is now the only boy under the age of 16 in the Missouri adult prison population.

And there is Jonathan McClard. As a 16-year-old, he shot and killed another teen in what the prosecutor called a cold-blooded ambush. The judge in the case was urged to sentence McClard under the dual jurisdiction program, giving him a shot at rehabilitation. The judge declined. McClard killed himself shortly after being sent to prison.

A HOLE IN THE SYSTEM

Bustamante has already tried to kill herself twice, once a couple of years ago and once since her arrest, according to court testimony. That's where the real hole in the system is, Wilson said.

Long before judges and prosecutors weigh issues of crime and punishment, young people often leave a trail of warning signs that the system misses.

In Bustamante's case, the trail is a long one, from her parents' legal troubles to her cries for help on social networking sites to her dabbling in the Goth subculture.

On Thursday, Bustamante's public defender filed a motion seeking to transfer her to a mental hospital.

Bustamante's next court date is Dec. 7. The people of St. Martins will be watching carefully. Not surprisingly, they want to see her punished.

The crime brought together hundreds of townsfolk for two days of searching when Elizabeth first went missing. On Wednesday, when the judge ruled that Bustamante would be tried as an adult, many residents were pleased.

"I think everybody would have been really upset if that hadn't happened," said Richard Bertels, owner of Stacy's Market and Grill, the town's convenience store and unofficial gathering spot.

It's a conservative, law-and-order town, Bertels said. But it's also a town of faith.

In St. Martins, Bustamante's grandmother had the support of her Mormon congregation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Jefferson City. Church members helped finish building her house on the property and offered support when Bustamante struggled.

Church members refused to comment on the case, other than to say that they are praying for both the Olten family and Bustamante.

Helen Penfield, a spokeswoman for the congregation, called the situation tragic. "Our hope is all will find comfort and peace from our loving, heavenly father during this difficult time," she said.

Prayer is a common theme among people in St. Martins when they consider the murder.

Like so many of the small towns circling the capital city, the town is rooted in its Catholic heritage. St. Martins Catholic Church and its accompanying elementary school is the focal point of the town, along with a VFW lodge and the Knights of Columbus hall that bears the name of the church's pastor, the Rev. Ed Schmidt.

"It's a very sad thing for this town," said Schmidt. "It's a painful experience for all involved. It's so deep-seated, the whole community feels it."

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/418FCF884BEA06B1862576750015EFC9?OpenDocument#tp_newCommentAnchor


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 22, 2009, 08:47:07 PM
Accused teen girl-killer's options weighed

ST. MARTINS, Mo., Nov. 22 (UPI) -- Child welfare and judicial officials in Missouri are trying to determine how to deal with a 15-year-old girl accused of child murder, observers say.

Police say Alyssa Bustamante, 15, of St. Martins, Mo., last month strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Kay Olten. Now officials are at a loss over whether she belongs in the juvenile system, where she can get treatment for her mental health problems, or in an adult prison, where her attorney says she may not survive, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported Sunday.

The newspaper said a state prosecutor and judge will face a myriad of pressures in making the decision on the teenager, while the area's juvenile system will be tasked with determining if Bustamante's mental illnesses are curable.

One problem is that Missouri's juvenile detention is set up for boys, Bill Heberle, deputy director of the Division of Youth Services, reportedly testified at a hearing, noting that the state doesn't have a locked facility for girls.

The Post-Dispatch said authorities have testified Bustamante suffers from depression, but school officials said she was a good student who didn't get in trouble.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/11/22/Accused-teen-girl-killers-options-weighed/UPI-24291258928314/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 22, 2009, 09:19:22 PM
::MonkeyWaa:: Klaas, I am sorry to be O/T, but is that your puppy dog sticking it's tongue out. If so, he/she is adorable.

TIA JSM

Yes, lol...CBB fixed me up with this one for Xmas.  I like the doggy too  ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 09:40:24 PM


Does anyone know where this photo came from? A date? Are there anymore? Also, How do you privately e-mail members on here ( or are we not allowed)?   THanks!!

yes, I found that photo.

If you'd like to contact me, you can at XXXX Remove email addy.  MB


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 22, 2009, 09:46:57 PM
Please say a prayer and light a candle for Elizabeth.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 22, 2009, 09:49:29 PM
Please say a prayer and light a candle for Elizabeth.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O

thank you.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 22, 2009, 09:50:32 PM
Please say a prayer and light a candle for Elizabeth.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O

thank you.

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 22, 2009, 09:54:32 PM
Please say a prayer and light a candle for Elizabeth.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O

Thanks for the reminder.....  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 22, 2009, 11:42:28 PM
XshareX.wsI'm playing high school football for the first time i`ve played in different ... okay and didn't think much of it.well the girls boyfriend is the one who relieves ... and premeditated the murder of her 9-year old neighbor: JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. On an Internet site, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante listed her hobbies as ...
www.xsharex.ws/ - Cached - Similar

I wonder what this means? I can't get the cached version. If this relates to AB her boyfriend may be on the football team.
bios


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: yuknomenot on November 22, 2009, 11:54:11 PM
XshareX.wsI'm playing high school football for the first time i`ve played in different ... okay and didn't think much of it.well the girls boyfriend is the one who relieves ... and premeditated the murder of her 9-year old neighbor: JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. On an Internet site, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante listed her hobbies as ...
www.xsharex.ws/ - Cached - Similar

I wonder what this means? I can't get the cached version. If this relates to AB her boyfriend may be on the football team.
bios
To the right, under each picture is a link to the roster
http://www.jayfootball.com/the_team/index.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:46:33 AM
A certain "Charlie" has been posting videos http://www.youtube.com/user/trishelle818


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:53:45 AM
Anyone catch what the beer bottle says after mom shacks sister in the face?

All I can catch is "Charlie Loves ??????"

http://www.youtube.com/v/UjwfeKI3Zh0&hl=en_US&fs=1&


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 01:08:52 AM
XshareX.wsI'm playing high school football for the first time i`ve played in different ... okay and didn't think much of it.well the girls boyfriend is the one who relieves ... and premeditated the murder of her 9-year old neighbor: JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. On an Internet site, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante listed her hobbies as ...
www.xsharex.ws/ - Cached - Similar

I wonder what this means? I can't get the cached version. If this relates to AB her boyfriend may be on the football team.
bios
To the right, under each picture is a link to the roster
http://www.jayfootball.com/the_team/index.html

Thank you for the roster but I think it was a false alarm and went with another story.Sorry to get hopes up. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 01:19:48 AM
Anyone seen this before? It was posted on a locals board and verified by other posters there. Is this the evidence that led them to Alyssa?

Luckygirl says...
I couldn't agree more with Bluesox. It's gone unsaid that this murderer turned in a paper/project to a teacher days before the girl went missing saying that she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. That teacher never turned it in to the school or police and later killed himself after turning that info over to the police. That project was the 'written evidence' that led them to the suspect, who then led them to the girls dead body. She needs to spend the rest of her life locked up so that she can never kill/hurt an innocent person again.

November 18, 2009 at 2:42 p.m. ( link | suggest removal )


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 01:24:24 AM
Anyone seen this before? It was posted on a locals board and verified by other posters there. Is this the evidence that led them to Alyssa?

Luckygirl says...
I couldn't agree more with Bluesox. It's gone unsaid that this murderer turned in a paper/project to a teacher days before the girl went missing saying that she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. That teacher never turned it in to the school or police and later killed himself after turning that info over to the police. That project was the 'written evidence' that led them to the suspect, who then led them to the girls dead body. She needs to spend the rest of her life locked up so that she can never kill/hurt an innocent person again.

November 18, 2009 at 2:42 p.m. ( link | suggest removal )


That has been a rumour since Bill Currie committed suicide.  It came out by several locals on comments to articles .  Interesting that the Sherriff went to his funeral and not Elizabeth's.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 02:31:29 AM
Yes, I know. But it was not what I had heard led police to Elizabeth's grave. I thought it was a diary entry and it was speculated one of her brother's or her sister turned that in. I know the rumor was he committed suicide because he had not identified the threat but I did not know he was the one who turned info over to the police and that was why the school board met.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 23, 2009, 08:45:21 AM
I'm wondering, if people have time, if anything found on Alyssa to could be put here for reference?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6379.40

That way we won't have to dig through threads to find photos and stuff.

thx!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 23, 2009, 09:26:09 AM
The more I see of Trisha/SC....the more I see a little girl riding on the shirt tail of what an aquantience of hers did. Even here on these videos, Alyssa isnt on her friends list, and some go back three months. Alyssa wasnt a MS friend(on either MS we have found) and Trisha is not on Alyssa's FB that I can find..(I would be willing to bet there is a friend invite from T to A though)
I know with my kids and the other kids around here, if they have talked to someone five minutes MS comes up and the first chance they get they are added as friends. 
 
 This little girl is BEGGING for attention. I am afraid if she doesnt get some pretty quick something else BAD is gonna happen. I am afraid she "looks up to Alyssa" and what is even scarier then that is when did she start looking up to her..Was it before all this..or AFTER. If it is after what will she do to get "Alyssas" attention???? 

 One other thought, I sure hope she isnt planning on a job in photography or making videos, cause hers sux!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2009, 10:17:56 AM
 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/23/earlyshow/main5746399.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea                    Early Show will Alyssa's friend on it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SloSthrnStyle on November 23, 2009, 10:38:56 AM
G'Morning,

Someone needs to have "smooth" in counseling.......

"☼ SmoothCriminal aka juggalette4L wif AlyssaApocalwww.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl

cause you know that this, will be our last fatal kiss. everything was a twisted lie, now you'll have to say goodbye....check out my youtube trishelle818Mood: missing alyssa
Posted 21 hours ago from Mobile"

http://www.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl

I somehow think this is lyrics to a song...but after seeing her on the news and watching different "moods" she posts..this girl needs some help.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 23, 2009, 10:44:41 AM
O/T

Fanny Mae - Hope you don't mind, I 'stole' this lil guy, too cute!  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/soapbox.gif)

 ::MonkeyDance::

Is there a smiley site you can share where you are finding these?  I have several of this lil guy and love em!  I can always wait and snag em as you use them, but hey, am not getting any younger here.  hehe..

 ::MonkeyJnBox::

 


O/T

Sorry, haven't been on line much. I follow QUIET MONKEY around and snag them from her. She has a huge collection. I think there are some sites, but I mostly get them from her.
More you might like.  (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/ec31028d5302800586077b6520628631.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/lmaosmiley-1.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/73dca962-1.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/thsmiley_pizza.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/bye.gif)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 10:51:27 AM
Nobody Knows What to Do with a Female Teen Killer, Other Than Watch Her Creepy Videos

As Alyssa Bustamante's cache of "Jackass stunt" videos resurface on YouTube, Missouri's penal system finds itself at its wits' end trying to accommodate a rare beast: the violent female juvenile offender.

Court proceedings for Bustamante—a 15-year-old who confessed to what authorities characterize as the premeditated slaughter of a 9-year-old neighbor, then led them to the hidden corpse—have so far focused on how she will be tried and where she will live. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the options are limited:

Missouri's nationally respected juvenile justice system has no secure place to put a 15-year-old girl accused of a violent murder.

It's a system that was built for boys.

"This is real different for all of us," said Bill Heberle, deputy director of the Division of Youth Services. At Bustamante's certification hearing, Heberle testified that the state doesn't have a secure facility—meaning one with fences and locked gates—for girls.

... "We simply don't receive that many young girls that are committed to us for a heinous crime," Heberle said. "Our girls tend to be more violent toward themselves."

Bustamante certainly has exhibited violence toward herself, including a suicide attempt two years ago. While the Missouri juvenile justice system tries to puzzle out what to do with an alleged female thrill killer, the internet is busy rubbernecking at Alyssa's exuberant "Jackass stunt" videos, wherein she imitates the exuberantly male MTV series of yore. Bustamante's YouTube account has been the source of much commotion—it was there that she listed "killing people" as a "hobby," and the Associated Press described a video clip in which where Bustamante shocks herself on an electric fence, then coaxes her brothers into doing the same. At the time, the clip was thought to be lost to the black hole of disabled YouTube accounts. But, like everything unfortunate on the internet, it has miraculously found its way back to the limelight:

An internet archivist reposted several of Bustamante's videos—which range from Good Charlotte tributes to swimming pool splash-a-thons with her brothers—and Gawker commenter TheLemon posted it here, which means we just crowdsourced a murder investigation?

http://gawker.com/5410574/nobody-knows-what-to-do-with-a-confessed-female-teen-killer-other-than-watch-her-creepy-videos


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 10:56:53 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/23/earlyshow/main5746399.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea                    Early Show will Alyssa's friend on it.

Different friend - Jennifer Meyer .  That is two now that claim she told them before this she wanted to see what it was like to kill someone.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 10:57:58 AM
Friend: Bustamante Discussed Killing
Teen Girl Accused of Murdering 9-year-Old Spoke to Friend About What it Would Feel Like to Kill

(CBS/ AP)  A best friend of a teenage girl accused of murdering a 9-year-old neighbor says her friend once said she wondered what it would be like to kill someone.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, has been held at the Morgan County jail after being indicted Wednesday as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action for the Oct. 21 death of Elizabeth Olten.

"She (Bustamante) told me I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody," Jennifer Meyer told CBS' "The Early Show" Monday.

"I just dismissed her," Meyer said.

Crimesider: Bustamante Listed "Killing" as a Hobby Online

"She seemed like any ordinary girl," Meyer said of Bustamante, adding that she spoke often about suicide and depression. "She was always kind of strange, I guess."

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut Elizbeth's throat because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. They say Bustamante confessed and led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

During a court hearing last week, a juvenile justice officer testified that Bustamante had attempted suicide two years ago and had received both inpatient and outpatient mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself. Her juvenile defense attorney said Bustamante also had attempted to cut herself with her own fingernails while being held in juvenile custody after Elizabeth's death.

Public defender Jan King cited the previous suicide attempt in a court document Thursday while stating that Bustamante was "demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety" and had been under a suicide watch at the jail.

Bustamante needs "immediate psychological treatment" to "assess her current mental state and to prevent the possibility that she may harm herself," King said in the motion requesting her transfer.

A not guilty plea was entered by a judge on Bustamante's behalf during her initial appearance Wednesday in adult court. If Bustamante is convicted of first-degree murder, she would face a sentence of life in prison without parole.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/23/earlyshow/main5746399.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 23, 2009, 11:43:01 AM
A certain "Charlie" has been posting videos http://www.youtube.com/user/trishelle818

Looking at all of her videos, it's almost like she is trying to draw attention to herself since she knows what everyone thought of Alyssa's videos and she knows that people are watching her.  Most of her stupid videos have been posted over the last several days, she has a motive for having those out there and none of them make any sense what so ever.    ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 23, 2009, 11:50:17 AM
A certain "Charlie" has been posting videos http://www.youtube.com/user/trishelle818

Looking at all of her videos, it's almost like she is trying to draw attention to herself since she knows what everyone thought of Alyssa's videos and she knows that people are watching her.  Most of her stupid videos have been posted over the last several days, she has a motive for having those out there and none of them make any sense what so ever.    ::MonkeyRoll::

I agree it is rather scary to see her making a game of all this.... her motive is to get attention.  She is probably reading all that is writtein about her.... and feeding off of it for some perverted reason. ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 23, 2009, 11:51:56 AM
A certain "Charlie" has been posting videos http://www.youtube.com/user/trishelle818

Looking at all of her videos, it's almost like she is trying to draw attention to herself since she knows what everyone thought of Alyssa's videos and she knows that people are watching her.  Most of her stupid videos have been posted over the last several days, she has a motive for having those out there and none of them make any sense what so ever.    ::MonkeyRoll::

I agree it is rather scary to see her making a game of all this.... her motive is to get attention.  She is probably reading all that is writtein about her.... and feeding off of it for some perverted reason. ::MonkeyRoll::

I agree.  I am thinking she needs to be "talked" to.  It is very disturbing to think that she would make a big joke out of this horrific tragedy. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:08:40 PM
Her nails look short here.  Wonder when she started growing them long enough to attempt to cut herself as her defense claims?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 23, 2009, 12:10:19 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/23/crimesider/entry5747352.shtml

new photos


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:13:10 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:14:50 PM
Full image before being cropped


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 23, 2009, 12:15:55 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:22:23 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
Those are cuts on her wrist.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:24:58 PM
back to cuts on the wrist.  Also wonder where the image is that is being taken by person at table. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:27:01 PM
You can faintly see them here as well


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 23, 2009, 12:27:49 PM
  Notice the cuts in this pic.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 23, 2009, 12:29:55 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist

May have been a "before." Her teeth look in pretty good shape though.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:31:13 PM
Wish this was not cut off.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 23, 2009, 12:31:22 PM
You can faintly see them here as well

Probably just a passing phase...I hear people grow out of it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:32:30 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist

May have been a "before." Her teeth look in pretty good shape though.

I was looking at that as well.  Nothing that screams "drug use".


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:34:20 PM
Alyssa Bustamante: Suspected teenage killer's friend says she wanted to murder

Jefferson City, MO - Accused teenage killer Alyssa Bustamante did indeed say she wanted to know what it felt like to kill another human being, according to her best friend, Jennifer Meyer, who appeared on CBS's "The Early Show" Monday morning.

Bustamante, 15, has been charged with the first-degree murder of nine-year-old Elizabeth Olten and was being held at the Morgan County jail. She has been charged as an adult in the stabbing, strangulation, and throat-slitting murder of Olten on October 21, 2009.

According to CBS News, Meyer described her best friend Bustamante as "like any ordinary girl." She added, however, that Bustamante often spoke of death, suicide, and depression. "She was always kind of strange, I guess." Meyer added that she simply dismissed her friend's desire to kill.

Meyer's claims that Bustamante would often be depressed or suicidal have been reiterated as the teenage suspect is currently under suicide watch for "demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety." Bustamante attempted suicide two years ago and allegedly cut herself with her fingernails after her arrest for Olten's murder. Last Friday, Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce ordered her to be taken to the Fulton State Hospital, a mental hospital, for up to 96 hours for evaluation.

Bustamante is most well-known for her claim of wanting to kill another human being just to see what it would feel like. She also listed several disturbing pieces of information about herself on various social network sites such as her MySpace profile where she claimed one of her hobbies was "Killing people."

An infamous video of Bustamante and her brothers willingly electrocuting themselves on an electric fence has recently resurfaced on YouTube and can be viewed below.

Read the indictment against Alyssa Bustamante.

http://www.examiner.com/x-30774-High-Profile-Crime-Examiner~y2009m11d23-Alyssa-Bustamante-Suspected-teenage-killers-friend-says-she-wanted-to-murder


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:36:27 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Alyssa Bustamante Photos Reveal Inner Life of Elizabeth Olten's Accused Killer

NEW YORK (CBS) Crimesider has obtained exclusive photos of Alyssa Bustamante, the 15-year-old alleged killer of Elizabeth Olten, 9.

PICTURES: Accused Teen Killer Alyssa Bustamante's Inner World
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2009/11/23/crimesider/photoessay5747894.shtml

The collection of Facebook and MySpace photos reveals a multi-faceted teenage girl who appears troubled and typical at the same time — smiling, seemingly carefree in one photo, holding her hand as a gun to her head in the next.

In one photo (top left), thin red lines of, what appear to be, self-inflicted cuts, are seen on Bustamante's left wrist.

Bustamante listed "cutting" and "killing people" as her hobbies in her Youtube profile, according to the Associated Press. That post has since been taken down.

Olten, the 9-year-old neighbor of Bustamante went missing in Cole County, Mo., on Oct. 21, 2009 while she was walking home from a neighbor's house. Her body was found two days later after a massive search effort and Bustamante led police to a grave in the woods, authorities said.

An autopsy revealed that Bustamante allegedly strangled, cut the throat of and stabbed Elizabeth; killing her, say police

Bustamante then buried Olten in a grave she had dug five days before the murder, according to investigators.

Bustamante has been charged with Olten's murder and will be tried as an adult, a judge ruled last week.

On Friday Nov. 20, a judge ordered Bustamante to Fulton State Hospital for up to 96 hours of psychological evaluation after her public defender, John King, said she was "demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety," was on suicide watch in jail and had tried to cut herself with her finger nails.

Earlier in the week, juvenile justice officials testified that Bustamante attempted to commit suicide in 2007 and had been receiving mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself.


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/23/crimesider/entry5747352.shtml


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 23, 2009, 12:40:33 PM
Those are cuts on her wrist.

I am not familiar with how they do the cutting... did she make all those cuts and they barely go through the skin so as not to leave scars??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 23, 2009, 12:43:04 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist

May have been a "before." Her teeth look in pretty good shape though.

I was looking at that as well.  Nothing that screams "drug use".
Being a former cutter myself I would say yes those look very real. And typical type cuts for a cutter.Usually very thin tiny cuts in a close proximity to one another.When a cutter cuts to just  "cut" they are usually not very deep(Just enough to bleed).And since they are not very deep after they heal can become almost invisible except in certain light.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 23, 2009, 12:52:22 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist

May have been a "before." Her teeth look in pretty good shape though.

I was looking at that as well.  Nothing that screams "drug use".
Being a former cutter myself I would say yes those look very real. And typical type cuts for a cutter.Usually very thin tiny cuts in a close proximity to one another.When a cutter cuts to just  "cut" they are usually not very deep(Just enough to bleed).And since they are not very deep after they heal can become almost invisible except in certain light.
And I would also like to add that I would be willing to bet those cuts are not from one incident.They are probably a collection of new and old cuts in the same location.a preferred spot for her to cut.Which shows she didn't cut and try to hide it.Cutters that feel shame in what they do pick a spot that can be covered from prying eyes.Her having them on that part of her arm tells me she wanted them to be seen. Attention maybe ...?... Maybe


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 12:52:32 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist

May have been a "before." Her teeth look in pretty good shape though.

I was looking at that as well.  Nothing that screams "drug use".
Being a former cutter myself I would say yes those look very real. And typical type cuts for a cutter.Usually very thin tiny cuts in a close proximity to one another.When a cutter cuts to just  "cut" they are usually not very deep(Just enough to bleed).And since they are not very deep after they heal can become almost invisible except in certain light.

Thank you for the explanation.  I would think when they are fresh you could not help but notice them?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 23, 2009, 12:55:38 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist

May have been a "before." Her teeth look in pretty good shape though.

I was looking at that as well.  Nothing that screams "drug use".
Being a former cutter myself I would say yes those look very real. And typical type cuts for a cutter.Usually very thin tiny cuts in a close proximity to one another.When a cutter cuts to just  "cut" they are usually not very deep(Just enough to bleed).And since they are not very deep after they heal can become almost invisible except in certain light.

Thank you for the explanation.  I would think when they are fresh you could not help but notice them?

Oh absolutely! When you use a razor blade to cut those kinda cuts during the cutting it doesn't hurt much at all.But the sight of them can be quite disturbing to a person not familiar.They always look nastier than they really are the day after.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 23, 2009, 12:58:51 PM
Those are cuts on her wrist.

I am not familiar with how they do the cutting... did she make all those cuts and they barely go through the skin so as not to leave scars??
Doubtful scars are not much concern to a cutter. Think of the cutting being more of a blood letting as the blood is visible to said cutter a type of relief is felt.I know it sounds strange but it is true. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 23, 2009, 01:01:18 PM
are these real cuts on her wrist?



Looks like scars from the cutting she was doing...... her grandparents had to have seen that. ::MonkeyShocked::

Nothing on this one though - same wrist

May have been a "before." Her teeth look in pretty good shape though.

I was looking at that as well.  Nothing that screams "drug use".
Being a former cutter myself I would say yes those look very real. And typical type cuts for a cutter.Usually very thin tiny cuts in a close proximity to one another.When a cutter cuts to just  "cut" they are usually not very deep(Just enough to bleed).And since they are not very deep after they heal can become almost invisible except in certain light.

Thank you for the explanation.  I would think when they are fresh you could not help but notice them?

Oh absolutely! When you use a razor blade to cut those kinda cuts during the cutting it doesn't hurt much at all.But the sight of them can be quite disturbing to a person not familiar.They always look nastier than they really are the day after.

Thank you for sharing the information tisk tisk....    ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2009, 01:07:09 PM
Those are cuts on her wrist.

I am not familiar with how they do the cutting... did she make all those cuts and they barely go through the skin so as not to leave scars??
Doubtful scars are not much concern to a cutter. Think of the cutting being more of a blood letting as the blood is visible to said cutter a type of relief is felt.I know it sounds strange but it is true. 
Exactly, and it is a serious problem, that shouldn't be looked at lightly whatsoever. Some cutters hide it quite well and do it in areas that family and friends can't see.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 01:15:30 PM
Those are cuts on her wrist.

I am not familiar with how they do the cutting... did she make all those cuts and they barely go through the skin so as not to leave scars??


Doubtful scars are not much concern to a cutter. Think of the cutting being more of a blood letting as the blood is visible to said cutter a type of relief is felt.I know it sounds strange but it is true. 
Exactly, and it is a serious problem, that shouldn't be looked at lightly whatsoever. Some cutters hide it quite well and do it in areas that family and friends can't see.

In this case where there are several photos of her not wearing long sleeves to cover up what she has done, she wants people to see them like?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 23, 2009, 01:19:29 PM
From my experience with "cutters' in the prison, the scars on Alyssa's arm look to be where she would cut, and cut over the same spot, to make the thicker scar tissue.  Alot of time they wait for the cuts to almost heal and then recut the same spot, this creates thicker scar tissue. I had one inmate that had so much scar tissue on her arms, she no longer "felt" anything in them. We sewed her up without any lidocaine. She did not feel when she cut either, so she took to biting and eating her own flesh.

 Scars like that can also be gotten by using a dull "instrument" to cut with. IE Paper clip, because the skin is more ripped then cut.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 01:19:30 PM
Alyssa Bustamante's friend speaks out

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx?id=380391


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 01:24:01 PM
think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 01:27:33 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 23, 2009, 01:27:58 PM
Alyssa Bustamante's friend speaks out

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/video.aspx?id=380391

Oh for heaven's sakes. We always get these videos where the murderer was "such a nice person" was "funny and a lot a fun" "always smiling."  NOBODY saw it coming...... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 23, 2009, 01:29:38 PM
think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments

TRUST HER?????? I don't see how anyone would have trusted her with their pet rattlesnake. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 01:31:19 PM
Atty wants psych care for teen girl

suspect in 9-yr. old girl's murder


Breaking: Attorney for Alyssa Bustamante, the teen girl accused of killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, is seeking to have the teen girl placed in a mental hospital while she faces murder charges! Bustamante was indicted as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the death of Elizabeth Olten, 9. Cops say Bustamante confessed to digging two holes and then killing Elizabeth just five days later! Nancy Grace has the latest breaking developments every night at 8 & 10 PM E.T. on HLN.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 01:33:50 PM
think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments

TRUST HER?????? I don't see how anyone would have trusted her with their pet rattlesnake. ::MonkeyNoNo::

These type of posts by friends as well as the interviews prove to me that the kids have not received the level of help required to deal with everything that has taken place.  There are a lot of teens hurting that have no where else to turn but the internet.  Yet more victims of the MONSTER IMO.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 23, 2009, 01:35:28 PM
think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments

TRUST HER?????? I don't see how anyone would have trusted her with their pet rattlesnake. ::MonkeyNoNo::

To me, it seems she must have done a good job keeping her inner thoughts and feelings to herslef a lot of the time.  Still... there were so many things, it seems anyone with common sense could see she was a ticking timebomb.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 23, 2009, 01:48:27 PM
I just noticed the last name of the Girl in the CBS vid.. Meyers... Elizabeths family is related to some Meyers...I have seen it on several memorial sights for her!!! Just FYI


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 01:50:42 PM
Come on. Back to the nails being cut because she had tried to cut herself. No defense I believe because she could always bite herself. Will they remove her teeth too? I think it was a sympathy ploy.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 23, 2009, 01:51:40 PM
Found this youtube video of her friend Jennifer being interviewed, not sure where or who is holding the interview. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5cd_9b3fXU



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 01:57:23 PM
Those are cuts on her wrist.

I am not familiar with how they do the cutting... did she make all those cuts and they barely go through the skin so as not to leave scars??
Doubtful scars are not much concern to a cutter. Think of the cutting being more of a blood letting as the blood is visible to said cutter a type of relief is felt.I know it sounds strange but it is true. 
[/quote

TiskTisk it must have been difficult to share that information about yourself. I am so happy that you are o.k. now. I don't know your background but you are very brave. ::MonkeyAngel::]


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 23, 2009, 01:58:40 PM
I was reading the posts below that video and Jennifer has been posting responses.  apples199324 is her username.  I am going to check to see what videos she has on youtube.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 23, 2009, 01:59:47 PM
Come on. Back to the nails being cut because she had tried to cut herself. No defense I believe because she could always bite herself. Will they remove her teeth too? I think it was a sympathy ploy.

I dont buy the Nail cutting BS, in NONE of the pictures are her nails long enough to even clean under, much less to cut with... she chews her nails to the nub.

Some other things I observed about her..

She seems to love to flash her clinched teeth..
and in most pics her hair covers her face.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: burkieandemme on November 23, 2009, 02:05:02 PM
think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments

Yeah..this was the same song and dance that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebod's friends did also.  BLAH BLAH BLAH.  These stupid little girls need to realize if they are stating how wonderful Alyssa was, then they are also stating it was just Jim Dandy Fine for her to MURDER ELIZABETH.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: 

These stupid little girls are so wrapped up in their anti-social wanna be selves they can not see the differnce between right and wrong.  (Stupid little girls!)


Good morning Monkeys!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 23, 2009, 02:15:14 PM
Those are cuts on her wrist.

I am not familiar with how they do the cutting... did she make all those cuts and they barely go through the skin so as not to leave scars??
Doubtful scars are not much concern to a cutter. Think of the cutting being more of a blood letting as the blood is visible to said cutter a type of relief is felt.I know it sounds strange but it is true. 
[/quote

TiskTisk it must have been difficult to share that information about yourself. I am so happy that you are o.k. now. I don't know your background but you are very brave. ::MonkeyAngel::]

Thank you karenk:) But don't give me to much credit ;p Cutting is something that I have dealt with for close to 13 years so talking about it is not hard for me.But talking about why it started in the first place is a totally different story.I am ok currently but suffered from a relapse just this past August which landed me in the hospital with 28 stitches(Lesson learned) I have to deal with my mental illness on a daily basis on my own.Thanks to our wonderful health care system even a person like me can get no help.My insurance covers 0$ upfront for prescription meds .And when the pharmacy charges you 700$ dollars a month for 2 prescriptions and you have you have a family and mortgage etc It kinda makes you feel like you have no where to turn.I do the best I can everyday some are better than others.My family keeps me strong and fortunately these cases keep me distracted  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2009, 02:23:25 PM
TiskTisk, I want you to know you have my thoughts and prayers, I have some idea what you are going through. I'm glad you have a good family to help you   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2009, 02:28:41 PM

Being a former cutter myself I would say yes those look very real. And typical type cuts for a cutter.Usually very thin tiny cuts in a close proximity to one another.When a cutter cuts to just  "cut" they are usually not very deep(Just enough to bleed).And since they are not very deep after they heal can become almost invisible except in certain light.

TiskTisk thanks for sharing this....I wanted to know more about cutting...the causes, treatments etc....I found this site very informative. This is very real...not a stage/phase someone goes through.  This is a cry for help!!

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/self-injury/DS00775


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 23, 2009, 03:03:22 PM
It just hit me..Jennifer is the Jenni from the karoke sight..


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: chrissy07 on November 23, 2009, 03:10:37 PM
It just hit me..Jennifer is the Jenni from the karoke sight..

yeah, if you google her youtube username, apples1993...it pulls up her singsnap, etc profiles.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2009, 03:17:28 PM

Being a former cutter myself I would say yes those look very real. And typical type cuts for a cutter.Usually very thin tiny cuts in a close proximity to one another.When a cutter cuts to just  "cut" they are usually not very deep(Just enough to bleed).And since they are not very deep after they heal can become almost invisible except in certain light.

TiskTisk thanks for sharing this....I wanted to know more about cutting...the causes, treatments etc....I found this site very informative. This is very real...not a stage/phase someone goes through.  This is a cry for help!!

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/self-injury/DS00775
Thank-you it is a very serious issue, thanks for the link.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Lenie on November 23, 2009, 03:29:02 PM
think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments

Yeah..this was the same song and dance that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebod's friends did also.  BLAH BLAH BLAH.  These stupid little girls need to realize if they are stating how wonderful Alyssa was, then they are also stating it was just Jim Dandy Fine for her to MURDER ELIZABETH.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: 

These stupid little girls are so wrapped up in their anti-social wanna be selves they can not see the differnce between right and wrong.  (Stupid little girls!)


Good morning Monkeys!

IMO I think these "stupid little girls" are just as mixed up and confused as most of us are. I think that Alyssa pulled the wool over their eyes as well. Believe it or not they are children. As they said they thought she was just mouthing off when she said she wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone. Until we read this story if someone just made a comment about like "hmm I would like to know what that feels like" we may have thought they were a dumba%% but would we really have thought that they were going to go do it??? I use to have a very dear friend when I was in high school that was as normal as you and I to all of our faces. When she didn't show up for school for several weeks we started asking some of the teachers about her, mums the word. Then a couple of my girlfriends and I finally drove to the parents house. (No one would answer the phone b4 that) We found out that Charlotte had kept a pregnancy hidden from all of us, even her parents, she had a severe drug addiction to glue, she gave birth to her daughter when her parents were away and walked around the house with the baby hanging from the umbilical cord dragging the floor until her parents came home and found her. Charlotte was put into a mental hospital. I know it wasn't murder but what I am saying is this. I SAW CHARLOTTE EVERY SCHOOL DAY, SHE WAS ONE OF MY 3 MUSKETEERS, WE THOUGHT THAT NOTHING WAS HID FROM EACH OTHER. WE HAD NO IDEA. I honestly believe that if she was psychotic enough to kill a little 9 year old then she could definitely hide these things from her best friends.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2009, 03:44:37 PM
Lenie, how awful  ::MonkeyAngel:: These kids are 15 it must be extremely hard to figure out how a friend could do such a thing. At my age, I would be stunned to find out a friend commited a murder, must be very hard to deal with.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 04:15:54 PM
Friend of teen murder suspect talks to News 4
(Video)

(KMOV) -- News 4’s Mark Schnyder sat down with Jennifer Meyer, a close friend of accused killer Alyssa Bustamante.

Meyer talks about her friendship with Bustamante and about a conversation the two had before Bustamante, 15, allegedly killed Elizabeth Olten, 9.

http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Friend-of-teen-murder-suspect-talks-to-News-4-71552602.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 04:24:21 PM
Friend of teen murder suspect talks to News 4
(Video)

(KMOV) -- News 4’s Mark Schnyder sat down with Jennifer Meyer, a close friend of accused killer Alyssa Bustamante.

Meyer talks about her friendship with Bustamante and about a conversation the two had before Bustamante, 15, allegedly killed Elizabeth Olten, 9.

http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Friend-of-teen-murder-suspect-talks-to-News-4-71552602.html

According to friend:

Monster hooked up with B/f two weeks before this happened

b/f was into drugs

If Monster would have told anyone about the graves friend feels it would have been b/f

Friend heard after Monster killed Elizabeth, Monster was in class and was writing a note about what happened.  Teacher came over and took the note, read it, and handed it over to the police


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 23, 2009, 04:43:24 PM
Hi Northern, the one pic you posted back on pg. 47, reply #922...it kind of looks like it may be one of Alyssa's twin brothers to me.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 07:38:00 PM
Hi Northern, the one pic you posted back on pg. 47, reply #922...it kind of looks like it may be one of Alyssa's twin brothers to me.

I thought that as well then I saw hints of what looked like bleached streaks in the hair.  From the electric wire youtube I do not see either boys with streaks.  Maybe boyfired or older male going grey as well?



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 07:41:00 PM
Bustamante on 24 hour suicide watch

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. -- The accused murderer of 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten is still in a county jail as her public defender tries to get her admitted to a mental hospital.

Court documents show that 15 year-old Alyssa Bustamante is on 24 hour suicide watch at the Morgan County jail.


Her attorney tells the judge that she is demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety. He wants her admitted for psychological treatment immediately.

Before being arrested for murder, Bustamante was undergoing intense treatment for suicidal tendencies, but today, one of her friends told national media that Bustamante talked about killing others as well.

“In one conversation that we had back in January, she pulled me aside and basically told me ‘I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody.’” Bustamante’s friend said. “I thought it was kind of strange but I just dismissed. I guess, I wouldn't really think that my best friend would do that."

Meanwhile, new photos obtained appear to show a teenager troubled and typical at the same time. One shows Bustamante with cuts on her wrist and fake blood around her mouth. While another one shows Bustamante with a stuffed animal on her head.

If convicted, Bustamante, who will be tried as an adult, could spend the rest of her life behind bars.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=381266


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 07:44:59 PM
Motion for Hospitalization


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2009, 08:02:16 PM
Bustamante on 24 hour suicide watch

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. -- The accused murderer of 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten is still in a county jail as her public defender tries to get her admitted to a mental hospital.

Court documents show that 15 year-old Alyssa Bustamante is on 24 hour suicide watch at the Morgan County jail.


Her attorney tells the judge that she is demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety. He wants her admitted for psychological treatment immediately.

Before being arrested for murder, Bustamante was undergoing intense treatment for suicidal tendencies, but today, one of her friends told national media that Bustamante talked about killing others as well.

“In one conversation that we had back in January, she pulled me aside and basically told me ‘I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody.’” Bustamante’s friend said. “I thought it was kind of strange but I just dismissed. I guess, I wouldn't really think that my best friend would do that."

Meanwhile, new photos obtained appear to show a teenager troubled and typical at the same time. One shows Bustamante with cuts on her wrist and fake blood around her mouth. While another one shows Bustamante with a stuffed animal on her head.

If convicted, Bustamante, who will be tried as an adult, could spend the rest of her life behind bars.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=381266

From the link above:

(http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/uploadedImages/krcg/News/Stories/alyssa%20vampire%20good.jpg?w=500&h=375&aspect=nostretch)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 08:09:15 PM
Mike Brooks is covering for NG tonight.  Ladd Egan from KRCG is on right now.  Still awaiting Judge to decide if she gets to go to mental hosp. 

She had daily counselling on her suicide thoughts but testimony indicated there was no sign of homicidal thoughts

Several friends have no come forth and said she started talking about killing someone in Jan.  of this year.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 08:10:18 PM
Bustamante on 24 hour suicide watch

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. -- The accused murderer of 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten is still in a county jail as her public defender tries to get her admitted to a mental hospital.

Court documents show that 15 year-old Alyssa Bustamante is on 24 hour suicide watch at the Morgan County jail.


Her attorney tells the judge that she is demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety. He wants her admitted for psychological treatment immediately.

Before being arrested for murder, Bustamante was undergoing intense treatment for suicidal tendencies, but today, one of her friends told national media that Bustamante talked about killing others as well.

“In one conversation that we had back in January, she pulled me aside and basically told me ‘I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody.’” Bustamante’s friend said. “I thought it was kind of strange but I just dismissed. I guess, I wouldn't really think that my best friend would do that."

Meanwhile, new photos obtained appear to show a teenager troubled and typical at the same time. One shows Bustamante with cuts on her wrist and fake blood around her mouth. While another one shows Bustamante with a stuffed animal on her head.

If convicted, Bustamante, who will be tried as an adult, could spend the rest of her life behind bars.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=381266

From the link above:

(http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/uploadedImages/krcg/News/Stories/alyssa%20vampire%20good.jpg?w=500&h=375&aspect=nostretch)

That wrist looks pretty cut up.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Edward on November 23, 2009, 08:13:16 PM
GeeWiz  ::MonkeyShocked::

She has plenty on OLD cut marks on her wrist.

She is completely out of her mind..

Poor kid, life is over for you but you are still breathing and what the hell are we as a nation going to do with you now ?



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 08:14:35 PM
Nancy Grace show
Showing photos of AB

Stupid person covering for Nancy mistook Elizabeth's photos for one of AB and said she looked so normal in one picture and so different in the others. He knows so little he doesn't know one from the other.
Why is the media so poorly prepared on this case? It is a shame.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2009, 08:18:19 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2009, 08:19:30 PM
GeeWiz  ::MonkeyShocked::

She has plenty on OLD cut marks on her wrist.

She is completely out of her mind..

Poor kid, life is over for you but you are still breathing and what the hell are we as a nation going to do with you now ?


She certainly has plenty of old cut marks, and yes, what do you do now with her. Very disturbing. And I don't know but if I were her friend and that age, I really don't think I would have believed she would do such a thing as murder even if she brought it up. I've listened to a lot of crazy talk and I just figured that is what it was crazy talk. I can't imagine what these kids must be thinking right now  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 08:20:50 PM
<snipped>

Update

But long before Bustamante allegedly committed murder, she had a long history of hurting herself, according to Meyer, who says she has known her since middle school.

Meyer said Bustamante, now 15, told her she tried to hang herself when she was 11. A year later, Bustamante told Meyer that she "was going to put a gun to her head, but she didn't have one," Meyer told Crimesider. "She was just thinking about ways to do it, but she didn't attempt it," Meyer said.

Meyer said that same year Bustamante cut her arms and "one time I guess she cut too far and passed out 'cause of blood loss."

Meyer told Crimesider she was not present at these attempts, but said Bustamante showed her numerous suicide notes and poems and told her about the incidents after they occurred.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/23/crimesider/entry5751594.shtml


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2009, 08:23:41 PM
 ::MonkeyHang::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 08:25:43 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

I fear that you may be correct.  They will hold her till she is 21 and then release her saying she is cured and in counselling.  She has been in daily counselling before she murdered.  That did not work so well did it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2009, 08:26:01 PM
I'll post the Nancy Grace Transcript tomorrow...Pat Brown nailed it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 23, 2009, 08:26:08 PM
I had a friend that told me she cut in HS.....I am sooo scared of anything sharp, blood, etc!! I could never BUT she said it was humiliating and she didn't want to do it but she couldn't stop. She said she would cover up the scars all the time bc it was EMBARRASSING and she didn't want to be caught...even though her family found out! She went to therapy and got help and overcame her depression, etc... now she dresses totally different (used to dress like Alyssa did..dark and weird)..but now she will wear pink shirts, etc even though her scars show because she knows it is part of her past now and she can't hide it and she wants to move on. Alyssa clearly wasn't "over" the phase and clearly needed more help.....but WHY would she post pictures SHOWING these scars unless it was a cry for attention OR she wanted to look "cool" in her group of friends.. it is so strange...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2009, 08:28:53 PM
I had a friend that told me she cut in HS.....I am sooo scared of anything sharp, blood, etc!! I could never BUT she said it was humiliating and she didn't want to do it but she couldn't stop. She said she would cover up the scars all the time bc it was EMBARRASSING and she didn't want to be caught...even though her family found out! She went to therapy and got help and overcame her depression, etc... now she dresses totally different (used to dress like Alyssa did..dark and weird)..but now she will wear pink shirts, etc even though her scars show because she knows it is part of her past now and she can't hide it and she wants to move on. Alyssa clearly wasn't "over" the phase and clearly needed more help.....but WHY would she post pictures SHOWING these scars unless it was a cry for attention OR she wanted to look "cool" in her group of friends.. it is so strange...

I asked that questrion earlier, why was she not wearing long sleeves to hide the cutting as most do?  That seems so strange from everything I have read on cutters.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: islandmonkey on November 23, 2009, 09:24:17 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.
::MonkeyDance::

I agree-I'd even volunteer to pull the lever ::MonkeyBike::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 23, 2009, 09:45:15 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE

2 things people need to REALLY keep in mind right now.  First of all, digging two "graves" in Alyssa's mind could be a small hole, perhaps a foot deep and 3 ft wide.  That would not take much time to do.
Second, I have not read ONE THING that states from a verified officer of law that says that Elizabeth was found in EITHER one of these graves.  You have to keep an open mind about this or you will get off on the wrong path.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 23, 2009, 09:47:33 PM
think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments

Yeah..this was the same song and dance that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebod's friends did also.  BLAH BLAH BLAH.  These stupid little girls need to realize if they are stating how wonderful Alyssa was, then they are also stating it was just Jim Dandy Fine for her to MURDER ELIZABETH.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: 

These stupid little girls are so wrapped up in their anti-social wanna be selves they can not see the differnce between right and wrong.  (Stupid little girls!)


Good morning Monkeys!

IMO I think these "stupid little girls" are just as mixed up and confused as most of us are. I think that Alyssa pulled the wool over their eyes as well. Believe it or not they are children. As they said they thought she was just mouthing off when she said she wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone. Until we read this story if someone just made a comment about like "hmm I would like to know what that feels like" we may have thought they were a dumba%% but would we really have thought that they were going to go do it??? I use to have a very dear friend when I was in high school that was as normal as you and I to all of our faces. When she didn't show up for school for several weeks we started asking some of the teachers about her, mums the word. Then a couple of my girlfriends and I finally drove to the parents house. (No one would answer the phone b4 that) We found out that Charlotte had kept a pregnancy hidden from all of us, even her parents, she had a severe drug addiction to glue, she gave birth to her daughter when her parents were away and walked around the house with the baby hanging from the umbilical cord dragging the floor until her parents came home and found her. Charlotte was put into a mental hospital. I know it wasn't murder but what I am saying is this. I SAW CHARLOTTE EVERY SCHOOL DAY, SHE WAS ONE OF MY 3 MUSKETEERS, WE THOUGHT THAT NOTHING WAS HID FROM EACH OTHER. WE HAD NO IDEA. I honestly believe that if she was psychotic enough to kill a little 9 year old then she could definitely hide these things from her best friends.

I completely agree.  Well said.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Roxie on November 23, 2009, 09:54:15 PM
Does anyone have the you tubes copied?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 23, 2009, 09:55:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/apples199324


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Roxie on November 23, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
I am sorry, I meant Alyssas' you tubes


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 10:33:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1tw6pGZ0A
Here's one


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 23, 2009, 10:34:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/Archivist2001
this person snagged them


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 23, 2009, 10:55:47 PM
Just a question Is Jan King still the Public defender in this case or what I would like o call the "public pretender" ::MonkeyConfused:: ... I just wanted to know for sure who is the defense attorney at the moment ?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 23, 2009, 11:46:23 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 24, 2009, 12:16:28 AM
 :smt055 Tisk Tisk I would say that most people here are empathetic. There are always a few that don't get it, but I admire the posters here for the most part.  I do blame her grandparents. I wrote on the NG blog.  Those grandparents did not give her the close attention or monitoring that she needed. Easily they could have monitored her online activity.  We are not her family and look was has been found. Her friends failed her as well. What would be wrong with a friend confiding confidentially if need be in her grandparents about Alyssa's thoughts about killing and suicide and the cutting ( all signs she was crying out for attention and acceptance).  The way her brothers also were subjected to her influence is wrong. Where were the GP when she was electrocuting herself and her brothers, and pretend to be stabbing them?  I think I noted in one photo that the boy (could have been her brothers) who was being "stabbed" had painted black fingernails.  Now if that was her brother - what were the GP's thinking?

Tisk Tisk, again I appreciate your insightful and personal postings.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 24, 2009, 12:32:45 AM
Just a question Is Jan King still the Public defender in this case or what I would like o call the "public pretender" ::MonkeyConfused:: ... I just wanted to know for sure who is the defense attorney at the moment ?

Based on the file update I posted preciously, Jan King is still the public defender.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 24, 2009, 12:56:46 AM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




Many people grow up in very bad situations and with little to no adult interaction in their lives for numerous reasons.  They do not kill.  There are articles that this girl was sneaky, deceptive and if she did have daily counselling  clearly knew how to tell people what they wanted to hear and manipulate.  Other articles indicated that Karen & Gary were members of a church and had her involved in the church as well.  She would have learned from church if from no other place empathy, forgiveness, morality and spirituality.  Yet she used the church as an excuse in at least one instance to lie and do what she wanted.  Some people are born evil and stay on that path regardless of outside influences.  Many more people grow up in evil situations and come through it without harming others let alone killing.  She was given more than one opportunity from the custody going to Grandma so she would not be in the care of a drug and alcohol troubled mother and father incarerated for violence,  to daily counseling, hospitalization and support from services available in the community and her church for years prior to this.  IMO she worked very hard at staying on the path she chose and planned exactly what has gotten her behind bars today.  Had her efforts been given to the same extent to embrace the numerous help offered perhaps Elizabeth would still be here.  Elizabeth's family has endured more than one tragedy and heartache. IMO it is up to the courts to ensure justice is served for Elizabeth and her family so they can in some way heal.  Elizabeth should not be forgotten as the only victim in this. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 24, 2009, 01:38:06 AM

hey Wyks - this site seems to have quite a few:

(http://www.thescubasite.com/smile/sign/sign0026.gif) (http://www.thescubasite.com/Scuba-Diving-News/)

http://www.mysmiley.net/

Thanks Jill!  That's a great site!   ::MonkeyDance::







Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 24, 2009, 01:51:31 AM
Quote from: Fanny Mae link=topic=6392.msg1021584#msg1021584
O/T

Sorry, haven't been on line much. I follow [b
QUIET MONKEY[/b] around and snag them from her. She has a huge collection. I think there are some sites, but I mostly get them from her.
More you might like.  (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/ec31028d5302800586077b6520628631.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/lmaosmiley-1.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/73dca962-1.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/thsmiley_pizza.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/bye.gif)

Pedaling fast to catch up in here.  Thanks so much Fanny!  Gonna have to watch the two of you a bit more closely.   Got a fan club I can join?   ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 24, 2009, 01:53:30 AM
Quote from: Fanny Mae link=topic=6392.msg1021584#msg1021584
O/T

Sorry, haven't been on line much. I follow QUIET MONKEY around and snag them from her. She has a huge collection. I think there are some sites, but I mostly get them from her.
More you might like.  (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/ec31028d5302800586077b6520628631.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/lmaosmiley-1.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/73dca962-1.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/thsmiley_pizza.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/bye.gif)

Pedaling fast to catch up in here.  Thanks so much Fanny!  Gonna have to watch the two of you a bit more closely.   Got a fan club I can join?   ::MonkeyHaHa::



Wow!   ::MonkeyEek::  I messed that post up badly... sorry!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 24, 2009, 02:03:24 AM
Nobody Knows What to Do with a Female Teen Killer, Other Than Watch Her Creepy Videos

As Alyssa Bustamante's cache of "Jackass stunt" videos resurface on YouTube, Missouri's penal system finds itself at its wits' end trying to accommodate a rare beast: the violent female juvenile offender.

Court proceedings for Bustamante—a 15-year-old who confessed to what authorities characterize as the premeditated slaughter of a 9-year-old neighbor, then led them to the hidden corpse—have so far focused on how she will be tried and where she will live. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the options are limited:

Missouri's nationally respected juvenile justice system has no secure place to put a 15-year-old girl accused of a violent murder.

It's a system that was built for boys.


"This is real different for all of us," said Bill Heberle, deputy director of the Division of Youth Services. At Bustamante's certification hearing, Heberle testified that the state doesn't have a secure facility—meaning one with fences and locked gates—for girls.

... "We simply don't receive that many young girls that are committed to us for a heinous crime," Heberle said. "Our girls tend to be more violent toward themselves."

Bustamante certainly has exhibited violence toward herself, including a suicide attempt two years ago. While the Missouri juvenile justice system tries to puzzle out what to do with an alleged female thrill killer, the internet is busy rubbernecking at Alyssa's exuberant "Jackass stunt" videos, wherein she imitates the exuberantly male MTV series of yore. Bustamante's YouTube account has been the source of much commotion—it was there that she listed "killing people" as a "hobby," and the Associated Press described a video clip in which where Bustamante shocks herself on an electric fence, then coaxes her brothers into doing the same. At the time, the clip was thought to be lost to the black hole of disabled YouTube accounts. But, like everything unfortunate on the internet, it has miraculously found its way back to the limelight:

An internet archivist reposted several of Bustamante's videos—which range from Good Charlotte tributes to swimming pool splash-a-thons with her brothers—and Gawker commenter TheLemon posted it here, which means we just crowdsourced a murder investigation?

http://gawker.com/5410574/nobody-knows-what-to-do-with-a-confessed-female-teen-killer-other-than-watch-her-creepy-videos

Thanks Northern! 

Seems to me, (the part I bolded), they may as well go ahead and build a girls wing to their juvenile justice system.  Never heard of such a thing as not having an area to house girls, for pete's sakes.  Just scooch the boys over, build a door/wall that separates the boys area from the girls, and there ya go.  How hard is that?   ::MonkeyNoNo::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 24, 2009, 02:18:43 AM
What I would like to know is what is on the end of that knife? It appears to be blood...probably fake but it is still disturbing.  ::MonkeyShocked:: Does anyone know where that pic might have been taken?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 24, 2009, 03:35:34 AM
Am thinking that what some folks aren't understanding is that there are different types of cutters.  Let me tell you about just two of these different types:

-- Some who cut themselves do so from a deep inner need to feel... something.. anything.  They have been so competely shut down from their emotions for so long that they are numb.  Cutting themselves seems an attempt for them to make themselves feel again.  And at the same time, that is one way they've found to release their built-up emotions.  They typically are severely depressed, with anger/rage directly inward, not outward to others.  This type of cutting tends to be shame-based, something typically hidden from others, never mentioned at all, to anyone, til found out in some way.  This type of cutting is usually done in places that cannot be seen by others, or they wear long sleeves.  It's all very complicated, and this type needs some mental health treatment.  They aren't disturbed, they aren't insane.  They know there is a problem, they often are too ashamed to go for help.  They do have emotional issues to deal with.   

-- Some who cut themselves do so for attention from others.  I won't even begin to get into what (and the extent of) issues this type of person has.   Some will rush to the nearest person to show them what they just did, some simply don't hide the cuts/bandages but wait for someone else to notice.  Typically the cutting was done to get the reaction of shock/sympathy/etc from others.  Somehow that fills a need in them.   They aren't insane either, but very definitely have emotional issues to deal with.  They will first need to see that there are problems.  Even with the problems, this person typically is a danger only to themselves, not others.  I say typically......... because if they aren't getting the attention they seem to crave by injuring themselves, they may begin to lash out to other people/animals in different ways. 

-- And then there is a combination of the above two types.  This would be those who start out the first type, but turns into the second type when they realize the attention from others is filling a need they didn't realize they had. 

No matter which type of cutter, the ways of cutting and depths differ greatly.  From superficial cuts to deep wounds that need stitches.   Folks who have many superficial cuts across the wrist are not trying to kill themselves.  That isn't the way it's done, and I don't need to finish that thought.  They may, however, accidentally hit a vein too deeply and lose a lot of blood.  If pointed out to the second type of cutter, they may cut deeper or differently the next time, just to gain more attention or a more startled reaction by others. 

All cutting attempts ought to, IMO, be taken seriously.  As I've said, the second type may escalate, especially without the needed attention or intervention.  None are simple stages that someone will get over.  These people can and do get/grow beyond the reasons they cut, most often they will need help to do so. 

Alyssa seems to me to be more the second type, altho I certainly am not trying to diagnose her or anything.  It's just my opinion from what we've seen of her online and read.  She seems to get a kick out of seeing pain that she has caused, not only in herself, but in others (as in her brothers).   She seems to get a bigger kick out of the reactions of others to what she's done.  There is always the possibility that she started out as the first type, and gravitated to the second type. 

All my opinion only.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 24, 2009, 04:13:44 AM
Alyssa seems to me to be a master manipulater.  If anything, in therapy she will be facing a whole lot of different issues to deal with.  But will she deal with them?   ::MonkeyNoNo::  Am thinking not.  Because of the manipulative aspect she has shown. 

She may truly be severely depressed, anxious.  She seems to have a lot of rage, not just anger, at the world, her family, herself.  She seems to crave attention, and may have realized that to get the kind of attention she needs, she acts out in the craziest of ways, the more negative the better. 

That having been said, do I think she is insane?  Nope.  And again, because of the manipulative aspect.  She knows what she has (allegedly) done to Elizabeth was wrong.  That can be seen in her statements on her myspace, "I should have gone to church."  And digging two graves a week ahead of time shows premeditation.  These are not the words/actions of an insane person. 

I wouldn't at all be surprised if she ends up being diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder, conduct disorder, oppositional defiant, etc etc etc.  Still doesn't mean that she's insane.  What it means is that someone a LONG TIME AGO *should have* seen the signs that were very obvious even back as early as 6 or 7 years old, even perhaps younger.  They had to have been, in order for her to be at this place in her life.  She didn't get this way overnight.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Not that much could have been done back then.  And not that much can be done now.  The manipulation by Alyssa will likely get in the way of any treatment that has been or ever will be available to her.  Conduct order, (desperately trying to get treatment for, or left untreated), is what develops into anti-social personality.  And that is what, as an adult, we see in such folks as Drew Peterson and Casey Anthony, etc. 

And my oldest son.... which is how I know.  Altho he hasn't killed anyone.... yet.  And that with having had him in therapy since he was 6 years old.  The best doctor in California that we could find, still wasn't good enough to sway his seeming hell-bent intent to become ... someone very scary.  I kind of doubt that Alyssa's family could have swayed her either.  I just don't know how much was done to try, in her case. 

Alyssa's defense atty's job is to try anything that might work to have her excused on a technicality, insanity defense, or play on the sympathy of others, etc etc.  Doesn't mean it will work tho.  I just don't know how good her atty will be at convincing others.  But as others have already said, won't be right if it does work!  Justice cannot be brought for Elizabeth if manipulation wins out!   ::MonkeyMad::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 24, 2009, 04:23:15 AM
What I would like to know is what is on the end of that knife? It appears to be blood...probably fake but it is still disturbing.  ::MonkeyShocked:: Does anyone know where that pic might have been taken?

Good question!  Probably, as you said, fake.... but yes, disturbing.  Could be what she intended tho.  To get that kind of reaction in others. 
   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Roxie on November 24, 2009, 06:30:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/Archivist2001
this person snagged them

Thank you KarenK


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 24, 2009, 07:52:27 AM
Bustamante on 24 hour suicide watch

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. -- The accused murderer of 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten is still in a county jail as her public defender tries to get her admitted to a mental hospital.

Court documents show that 15 year-old Alyssa Bustamante is on 24 hour suicide watch at the Morgan County jail.


Her attorney tells the judge that she is demonstrating signs of severe depression and anxiety. He wants her admitted for psychological treatment immediately.

Before being arrested for murder, Bustamante was undergoing intense treatment for suicidal tendencies, but today, one of her friends told national media that Bustamante talked about killing others as well.

“In one conversation that we had back in January, she pulled me aside and basically told me ‘I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody.’” Bustamante’s friend said. “I thought it was kind of strange but I just dismissed. I guess, I wouldn't really think that my best friend would do that."

Meanwhile, new photos obtained appear to show a teenager troubled and typical at the same time. One shows Bustamante with cuts on her wrist and fake blood around her mouth. While another one shows Bustamante with a stuffed animal on her head.

If convicted, Bustamante, who will be tried as an adult, could spend the rest of her life behind bars.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=381266

From the link above:

(http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/uploadedImages/krcg/News/Stories/alyssa%20vampire%20good.jpg?w=500&h=375&aspect=nostretch)

That wrist looks pretty cut up.
yes, that looks like lots and lots of cuts AND scars piled up. I think she has been doint that for quite awhile.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: theboyzmom on November 24, 2009, 08:05:19 AM

 <<<<snip>>>>>

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.  I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. . .  She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease.




TiskTisk - I am sorry for all you have gone through. The part that I bolded strikes me. As someone that has faced the evil of a psychopath and as a result have studied them, I STRONGLY disagree with your statements. Being a little psychopathic (which is  synonymous with psychopath) is like being a little pregnant. Some people are narcissistic but not sociopaths. But a true sociopath is not a "little" sociopaths. They may melt into the background well, but when cornered by not getting their way they are dangerous. Add to that the fact that sociopathy is NOT TREATABLE and placing her in a hospital is worthless. The research seems to show that psychopaths get more dangerous with treatment. The only good place (sort of a grave) for this monster is jail where she can not hurt the general public.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 24, 2009, 08:09:08 AM
What I would like to know is what is on the end of that knife? It appears to be blood...probably fake but it is still disturbing.  ::MonkeyShocked:: Does anyone know where that pic might have been taken?
  fake blood. Taken at a church youth group function


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 24, 2009, 09:14:59 AM
Nancy Grace Transcripts  11/23/09
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0911/23/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 24, 2009, 09:19:04 AM
Nancy Grace Transcripts  11/23/09
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0911/23/ng.01.html

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the question isn`t premeditation. That`s if it was impulse murder or passion murder. This one is, Is she crazy? Is she insane? Look at the pictures you`re putting on TV right now. She blurred the lines of fantasy and reality inextricably. She crossed the lines back and forth. There`s no question she couldn`t separate reality from fantasy. That`s one of the main ways to prove that she was insane. This wasn`t temporary insanity, this might be permanent insanity.

BROOKS: But you know, I want to bring in Pat Brown, joining us from D.C., criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport." Pat...

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Yes. I`m disagreeing with that last statement wholeheartedly. Look, she knew exactly what the difference between fantasy and reality was. The problem is, she was bored with fantasy and she wanted reality. She wanted to find out what it felt like to kill somebody because she wanted the real thing.

And if you go by that argument, that because she had a bad background, because she has these disturbing thoughts, that she`s mentally ill, well, then Anthony Sowell, who knocked off all those women and buried them in his house, that guy, the serial killer, is just thinking just the same way, well, then he`s -- well, we`ll just put him in a mental institution, too. Let`s put all serial killers in a mental institution.

This girl was on her way to becoming a serial killer. Two graves. She had in her head another body for the future. That would make her a serial killer. She`s a cold-blooded psychopath, and nobody`s recognizing it!

BROOKS: And Pat, it`s thought that she lured this 9-year-old girl into the woods after digging two graves in the woods the day before!

BROWN: Absolutely. This was totally planned out. She knew exactly what she was doing. And by the way, Mike, those -- even that suicide attempt and all that stuff, those aren`t cries for help, those are cries for attention. She likes to manipulate people. And my guess is the problem is people minimized a lot of the things she did in the past -- pathological lying, manipulation, lack of remorse, no empathy, all of that minimized as she was growing up, and she turned into a cold-blooded killer at the age of 15.

But that`s what she is, and she`s not treatable. So you put her in a mental institution, give her all the help you want, and she is what she is and she`s not going to change.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Lenie on November 24, 2009, 09:57:47 AM
IMO Here again I am going to defend the grandparents. I do not know what their life was like, but I do know the trials and tribulations of a grandparent taking on raising their grandchildren. No matter how much love and nurturing a grandparent gives their grandchildren they are and never will never be the child's parent. The child always wonders WHY. Why did my parents not love me enough to...... I must really have been a bad child or my parents would not have thrown me away like trash. I have had my granddaughter for over 6 years and she is only 9. Even at this young age she knows the difference and she wonders. Also in the defense of the grandparents, they could have done everything right and this child could have still did what she did.

I think that Alyssa was a spoiled little brat and felt that everything should go her way. I think that she was a "I want attention" cutter. I think that it kept escalating, I would imagine that if we knew her whole story that it went from temper tantrums to murder. I think that when her Aunt go married that she was really disturbed by the Aunt getting all of the attention. You guys do a lot of research on murderers. I know that you have found a lot of them had very normal lives and no one saw it coming.

On a last note. Whatever happened to hospitals for the criminally insane???


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 24, 2009, 11:07:26 AM
TiskTisk, first I couldn't even begin to understand the horrible heartache of having a loved one murdered, all I can say is I'm very sorry for your loss. But I do know about cutting, and my thoughts are with you  ::MonkeyAngel::  Wyks thank-you for posting about cutting, and yes, it should be taken very seriously. Lenie I also think Alyssa's grandparents were doing what they could for her, otherwise why have all that therapy for her, they must care, imo.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 24, 2009, 11:16:30 AM
I respectfully disagree, on being raised by grandparents. I was rasied my my grandmom and thank God for it everyday. Even when I was very small I choose my grandma. I enjoyed spending time with my mom, but in the end I wanted to go back to my mema...

 I do know many kids raised by grandparents resent it, but I know many of us  who do not. I always felt LOTSA love.. I knew my mom loved me(the best she could she is bipolar) and I knew my mema loved me alot, unconditionally...I felt like she choose me also. My mema I guess had more patients..YES I tried her last nerve every chance I got, but she did not"loose it" and scream hollar and cuss me, and sometimes even beat the crap outta me like mom did.. (she did this very very rarely when she was manic) My grandma also taught me to pray for momma, and I did, and through the years things got better. Or maybe I just learned to live the life I was given..

 I do agree grandparents do not know how to handle alot of the "issues" facing teens and kids today. I think it may also be a factor with kids rasied by granparents..of more rivalry, I had an aunt and uncle not much older then me..we are very close now, but when I was younger I was jealous of them,because mema was MINE MINE MINE...and I also has"issues" with my cousins, mema's other grandkids..cause once again mema was MINE..

 But as I got older I choose to NOT do alot of things I knew would hurt my mema(drugs alcohol etc) I did NOT do those things becasue I respected my grandma and how she raised me, and I never ever wanted to hurt her.

 I guess this is why this case bugs me so bad.. Alyssa and I had very similar childhoods, my mom wasnt into drugs, but I went thru years of her alcohol abuse, as I got older having to go pul her outta bars. I never knew my dad till I was 28, cause he was in and out of jail and drugs etc.. I also suffered from teen depression, and think mema handled it the best, she would tell me (as many here say) Put on your big girl panties and quit moping around" She put me to work, and I didnt have time to be depressed anymore. I lost the only dad "figure" I had at 16, my step dad, who was also into drugs and alcohol, and got killed in a bad drug deal.

 I was a little confused about the grandparents when we thought they whisked her off that wednesday night, because that looked like a cover up(something mema wouldhave never done for me..lol right after she beat the tar outta me wirh her house slipper she would have carried met o the police) But since it now appears they did not do that I think they did the best they could, with what they had to work with..

Srry for the rambling!!! As always just my humble opinion!!!
 
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 24, 2009, 11:56:37 AM
A Hatchet?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Lenie on November 24, 2009, 12:13:12 PM
TxsFlame I am sorry if I came across that I meant that the kids resent it. I just meant that I know that their are questions as to why in a lot of cases. I hope and pray every day that I can be the kind of Mom that your Mema was to you. Sammi calls us Mom and Dad and seems to have no regrets about being here. She says that God knew that Phil and I could not have anymore kids so He let her bio mom carry her until she was ready and then He sent her to us. :)
One day Sammi was having a very bad day and she started to cry for what seemed to me no particular reason. When I finally got her to talk about it she said she could not understand what she had done to make her birth parents not want her. They have no and I mean absolutely no excuse not to be raising their children. No mental disorders, no drug or alcohol problems, just plain out and out selfishness.

 I am terribly sorry if I came across that way I did not mean to.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 24, 2009, 12:19:25 PM
A Hatchet?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mohawk-SKULL-Pirate-Knife-Hatchet-Silver-Necklace-LOT_W0QQitemZ360204565505QQcategoryZ92758QQcmdZViewItem

I guess they do sell such things..... bleh


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 24, 2009, 12:33:08 PM
A Hatchet?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mohawk-SKULL-Pirate-Knife-Hatchet-Silver-Necklace-LOT_W0QQitemZ360204565505QQcategoryZ92758QQcmdZViewItem

I guess they do sell such things..... bleh
Those necklaces have been popular for quite awhile.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 24, 2009, 12:37:00 PM
A Hatchet?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mohawk-SKULL-Pirate-Knife-Hatchet-Silver-Necklace-LOT_W0QQitemZ360204565505QQcategoryZ92758QQcmdZViewItem

I guess they do sell such things..... bleh

I have never seen one of those before.Learn something new everyday.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 24, 2009, 12:55:36 PM
A Hatchet?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mohawk-SKULL-Pirate-Knife-Hatchet-Silver-Necklace-LOT_W0QQitemZ360204565505QQcategoryZ92758QQcmdZViewItem

I guess they do sell such things..... bleh

I have never seen one of those before.Learn something new everyday.
It wasn't the link that was posted, but one day my daughter was looking at different jewelry on some site, and there was all kinds of odd necklaces, that I suppose would attract a younger person, of course there was none on there that I would wear. And if I did I sure would look stupid wearing that at my age.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 24, 2009, 01:22:01 PM
   ::MonkeySkate:: I don't know how I missed it before but Shinju gave us the final piece. I now know BF name however can find NO web tracks at all.  From what was stated he was a new BF of only 2 weeks do don't know how involved he could have been.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 24, 2009, 01:30:46 PM
If that is a hatchet I feel this is ONE MORE THING the grandparents chose to ignore. The money she has had to come from them or she could not buy such things. On the cutting of wrist if you bend your hand way downward lots of little creases appear and I think that is what you are seeing in the photo. Not cut marks. Try that pose yourself with thumb extended.

I still say the GP did not bother to check up on her and talk to her counsellors about what she was posting. She has tracks of violence all over the web.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 24, 2009, 01:54:19 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better


You feel better now?? Don't you ever blast me again for 'judging and being ignorant of the situation, I am not. You do not know me nor do you know what I have been through and none of you ever will. AB is NOT IMO a sociopath, she's a cold blooded psychopath...and if she does NOT go to prison w/o the possibility of parole OR given the death penalty and is sentenced to the Psych Ward it certainly would NOT be for life. She is not insane. I have no empathy for ANYONE who murders a child. If she ever goes free, she will kill again.

I can see I am done in here or my Scared Monkeys days will be over. One strike you are OUT! She will kill again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 24, 2009, 02:05:31 PM
TxsFlame I am sorry if I came across that I meant that the kids resent it. I just meant that I know that their are questions as to why in a lot of cases. I hope and pray every day that I can be the kind of Mom that your Mema was to you. Sammi calls us Mom and Dad and seems to have no regrets about being here. She says that God knew that Phil and I could not have anymore kids so He let her bio mom carry her until she was ready and then He sent her to us. :)
One day Sammi was having a very bad day and she started to cry for what seemed to me no particular reason. When I finally got her to talk about it she said she could not understand what she had done to make her birth parents not want her. They have no and I mean absolutely no excuse not to be raising their children. No mental disorders, no drug or alcohol problems, just plain out and out selfishness.

 I am terribly sorry if I came across that way I did not mean to.

 No you didnt come across like that at all. I just wanted to point out sometimes the grandparents are the best choice to raise the grandkids... It shouldnt be that way , but sadly soemtimes is. It is up to the kid (as they get older) to realize those that care did the best they could for them (us).

Basically I just get defensive about grandparents raising the grandkids.. I wouldnt have traded my life with my mema for anything in the world at times I even DID have the choice, and I ran back to mema as fast as I could.. she was the best.. It makes me angry when kids/people use "grandma raised me excuse(and yes i realize there are bad gparents just like bad parents) I am talking in general terms..the grandparents raising kids isnt a bad thing(only sometimes sad..in my case NO..lol my mema may would have disagreed..j/k)


 I have SOOO much respect for grandparents that take on the task.... they are extra special parents...


Oops srry rambling again... What I was saying is I DOOO see your point, but it isnt always like that..  and I tend to jump to grandparents defense, because I do not want them to all kids will resent them.. Ok.. I thought ur post was very nice, and thank you for taking care of another parentless child..((hugs)))  Some of us do grow to appreciate it!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 24, 2009, 02:17:50 PM
KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 24, 2009, 02:26:01 PM
KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...

OK I found it... I have seen that name other places..but NOW can not remember where.. goona check casenet..I SWEAR I saw it there..?? DD needs puter will get back asap!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 24, 2009, 02:38:31 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better


You feel better now?? Don't you ever blast me again for 'judging and being ignorant of the situation, I am not. You do not know me nor do you know what I have been through and none of you ever will. AB is NOT IMO a sociopath, she's a cold blooded psychopath...and if she does NOT go to prison w/o the possibility of parole OR given the death penalty and is sentenced to the Psych Ward it certainly would NOT be for life. She is not insane. I have no empathy for ANYONE who murders a child. If she ever goes free, she will kill again.

I can see I am done in here or my Scared Monkeys days will be over. One strike you are OUT! She will kill again.

I have to agree with Nut here.  I think that Alyssa is way past being nurtured back to normal.

I do feel that some killers have something missing within them, and imo Alyssa is this type of killer.

Tisk, I do respect your thoughts and feel empathy for what you yourself have had to live through during your life.

But as far as I'm concerend, Alyssa is a stone-cold killer and absolutely, definitely, without a shadow of a doubt NEEDS to be locked up for the rest of her life.

Sad, but imo, true.

Re: the heatedness of this issue, I have to say that I hope people on both sides remember that as this is a child-killer, emotions have and will continue to run high as this case progresses.

That said, again imo our moderators deserve the utmost respect as they give their time voluntarily - to help run a very progressive forum that allows free thought.

The media has made this more about Alyssa than about Elizabeth.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: TiskTisk on November 24, 2009, 03:07:08 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better


You feel better now?? Don't you ever blast me again for 'judging and being ignorant of the situation, I am not. You do not know me nor do you know what I have been through and none of you ever will. AB is NOT IMO a sociopath, she's a cold blooded psychopath...and if she does NOT go to prison w/o the possibility of parole OR given the death penalty and is sentenced to the Psych Ward it certainly would NOT be for life. She is not insane. I have no empathy for ANYONE who murders a child. If she ever goes free, she will kill again.

I can see I am done in here or my Scared Monkeys days will be over. One strike you are OUT! She will kill again.
I didn't say what I said to make myself fell better at all actually. I was just shocked at how easy it is for people to make comments that a person should fry tomorrow.And stating my opinion that I don't believe people who have emotional issues and cut are "disturbed".I never once mentioned that I thought she should ever be released either.I also believe she should never be allowed to walk among people and be free.Which is why I made the comment once you cross that bridge (of becoming a murderer)That you can never go back. I honestly didn't realize you would think a person giving there opinion would be putting you on "blast"either.I am not a aggressive person especially on the net I believe that is just silly.I honestly believe that the point of this forum was to share your opinion.I stand corrected.Don't worry Nut no need to get all angry and threaten a strike because you feel "Blasted" psh Peace Out Monkeys !!!!It was fun for a minute a lot of you were very sweet it was nice to know you. ::MonkeyBike::

I've made it easier for you not to return.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 24, 2009, 03:11:25 PM
KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...

His name is ((edit - since this boy is a minor and as far as we know not involved in the murder, I'd rather not post his name.  If it turns out that he helped Alyssa in any way then we can go ahead and post it))


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2009, 03:16:43 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




TiskTisk - I honestly believe you are in the minority here.  Most have no compassion for anyone who would kill a 9yr old in cold blood. 

So if NUT is no better then "them" then I am no better as well. 

In the future don't attack others because of your own views.  TIA


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 24, 2009, 03:33:23 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.Would you say that people who cut ARE in fact insane?  That you, yourself, are insane?I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not.Have you, in fact, murdered and therefore know what a murderer is thinking? I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems! um, happens to kids everyday, yet they don't murderSo you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic you either are, or you aren't, there is nothing partial about being a sociopathand I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. Again, have you murdered?  You would have to have murdered to understand BOTH sides...There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. This shouldn't have happened whether the kid had parents or notTHIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.I disagree.  Murdering is a decision, must like other things people claim to have been "born" with...
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




All the stuff that is bold, underlined, and italicized is my questions and comments


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2009, 03:37:37 PM
YourMom - you won't be getting an answer or reaction from TiskTisk, I've banned her.  We/I don't need people stirring up trouble after only being a member for a couple weeks.  Much easier for me to remove the problem than to deal with the complaints.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SMILE on November 24, 2009, 03:42:33 PM

Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: burkieandemme on November 24, 2009, 03:47:09 PM
Lenie,
I would like to say how truly sorry what happended to your friend.  I agree with what you are saying; people will only show what they want us to see. 

However in this case Alyssa did not hide what a monster she was.  She posted it all on the internet for everyone, mainly her friends, to see.  So when her friends are going to the media (wither it is an interview or posting a comment for the world to see) about them being shocked, and that Alyssa was a normal teenager who liked to laugh, I feel they are being stupid.   I do feel every comment about Alyssa being a normal teenager with normal problems is an insult to Elizabeth! To both her short life and her horrific death.

As far as her friends being confused, because they feel they have been tricked by Alyssa, there are more appropriate outlets for them to discuss their confusion.  They have parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, school councilors, other friends, their parents, trust teacher, school councilor, priest, pastor....This is more appropriate and defiantly more respectful to Elizabeth and her family.





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 24, 2009, 03:47:45 PM
KARENK  Please help a girl out, I cant find the clue...

OK I found it... I have seen that name other places..but NOW can not remember where.. goona check casenet..I SWEAR I saw it there..?? DD needs puter will get back asap!!
I don't know why I missed it before. Had the name but put an older boy's data with it the longer version of __sty.  I found in searching and the mother's data came up with children listed.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 24, 2009, 03:49:08 PM
AND, I reiterate. We don't know that he knew anything at all about this and especially since as hinted by others they had only been together a few weeks so leads me to think he knew nothing!!!  And after that small amount of time I can't believe would get involved with a murder.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 24, 2009, 03:53:35 PM
 ::MonkeyGavel:: And in my mind it is put to rest.  Since BF probably isn't involved I can now stop obsessing about who he is. I don't think he will be implicated in any way. It is also curious that he doesn't have the usual social networking foot print on the net and is not even discussed in others MS or FB sites that I can find.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: burkieandemme on November 24, 2009, 03:58:07 PM
Nut,
I am sorry you were attacked.  You are a strong advocate for children, elderly and the disabled. You deserve a big "THANK YOU" for everything you do.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 24, 2009, 04:06:15 PM
Nut, I hope you continue to discuss - your views are very much valued.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2009, 04:27:14 PM

Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SMILE on November 24, 2009, 04:30:01 PM

Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 

marshy?????.....I did not know of any marshy in the Jeff City area


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 24, 2009, 04:32:53 PM
YourMom - you won't be getting an answer or reaction from TiskTisk, I've banned her.  We/I don't need people stirring up trouble after only being a member for a couple weeks.  Much easier for me to remove the problem than to deal with the complaints.

I apologize to all monkeys and especially Nut if my response above read as sympathetic to Tisk.

I only read halfway through that post and missed the absolutely off the wall, over the top, extremely rude last comments.

Not nice!

 ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: jill on November 24, 2009, 04:34:51 PM

Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 

marshy?????.....I did not know of any marshy in the Jeff City area

the area was flooded and marshy from the rainfall over the preceding days.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 24, 2009, 04:37:14 PM

Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 

marshy?????.....I did not know of any marshy in the Jeff City area

I am also curious about this, as I am a MO resident and I don't know of any marshy areas.  And the area where they found her body didn't look at all marshy to me????  maybe it was this way from a recent rain and was "temporarily marshy" ??  lol  if that's possible.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2009, 04:39:06 PM
I'll find the press conference where LE mentioned the conditions.  Give me a few minutes.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: YourMom on November 24, 2009, 04:43:38 PM
I'll find the press conference where LE mentioned the conditions.  Give me a few minutes.

it's ok, klass, I believe you, just such an odd word for someone to use to decribe something in MO.  Just seemed so out of place.  Had to be from the recent rains and such and the area hadn't quite drained perhaps?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2009, 04:47:31 PM
I'll find the press conference where LE mentioned the conditions.  Give me a few minutes.

I could swear they used the word marsh, but it may have been my interpretation

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366189

(snipped)

UPDATE: Thursday 7:15 p.m.:

A 24-hour tip line has been set up to take calls from anyone who might have information on the case.

The number is (866) 362-6422. Anyone who has information or may have seen something is urged to call. 

Sheriff White says the highway patrol helicopter will be out searching again Friday. The rain made Thursday's search difficult but didn't slow it down, according to White. The weather was the reason a helicopter wasn't used in today's search.

Authorities have an updated description of what Elizabeth Olten was wearing when she went missing. Olten was wearing a pink T-shirt with a darker pink vest over that when she went missing. She was wearing blue jeans with pink ribbons on them.

UPDATE: Thursday 6:25 p.m.:

All searchers, including law enforcement, are being pulled out of the woods, according to Cole County Sheriff Greg White.

White says the woods are too dank and wet to continue a safe search tonight for missing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

(snipped)

So to go back to Smile's question, maybe they missed the location because it was so wet and icky  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 24, 2009, 04:54:23 PM
I don't have a link....but I remember reading someplace that because of the rains the area was muddy and and marsh like.  I remember becasue that was the way my back yard was....

O/T Klaas when you have a moment please pop over to Caylee's thread I have 2 questions only you can answer ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 24, 2009, 05:02:37 PM
Could someone explain to me how to post pics on here? I have a general idea...but just not positive.  ::ElfMonkey:: Thanks


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2009, 05:09:27 PM
Could someone explain to me how to post pics on here? I have a general idea...but just not positive.  ::ElfMonkey:: Thanks

Two ways

1.  You need the URL of the photo you are posting then it needs to have the IMG tags in the front and at the end.  To add the IMG tags hightlight the url after pasting it into your message then click on the IMG icon (http://scaredmonkeys.net/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif) above and it will automatically add the IMG tags for you.

2.  You can upload a photo from your PC by clicking on the ADDITIONAL OPTIONS link below the message area when you are typing a response.  There you will have the option to BROWSE from your PC.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: GemXx on November 24, 2009, 05:21:48 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




TiskTisk - I honestly believe you are in the minority here.  Most have no compassion for anyone who would kill a 9yr old in cold blood. 

So if NUT is no better then "them" then I am no better as well. 

In the future don't attack others because of your own views.  TIA

IMO I think I have compassion for AB. I wish she would have been ok and that she got the help she needed.
But if I could give her the death penalty, I would. I don't see a way to salvage this person, and if we try she would likely recreate the experience by killing again. And what about punishment? It is not like she killed someone accidentally.
I don't see any treatment that could undo what she did. She had a lot of help before, she made a choice.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 24, 2009, 05:24:09 PM
Could someone explain to me how to post pics on here? I have a general idea...but just not positive.  ::ElfMonkey:: Thanks

Two ways

1.  You need the URL of the photo you are posting then it needs to have the IMG tags in the front and at the end.  To add the IMG tags hightlight the url after pasting it into your message then click on the IMG icon (http://scaredmonkeys.net/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif) above and it will automatically add the IMG tags for you.

2.  You can upload a photo from your PC by clicking on the ADDITIONAL OPTIONS link below the message area when you are typing a response.  There you will have the option to BROWSE from your PC.
Thanks...I am familiar with the second option. I found some more pics of the monster that I didn't know if they have been seen by everyone here. Here is  the link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2009/11/23/crimesider/photoessay5747894.shtml?tag=page


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 24, 2009, 06:25:32 PM
This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  ::MonkeyNoNo:: There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




TiskTisk - I honestly believe you are in the minority here.  Most have no compassion for anyone who would kill a 9yr old in cold blood. 

So if NUT is no better then "them" then I am no better as well. 

In the future don't attack others because of your own views.  TIA

IMO I think I have compassion for AB. I wish she would have been ok and that she got the help she needed.
But if I could give her the death penalty, I would. I don't see a way to salvage this person, and if we try she would likely recreate the experience by killing again. And what about punishment? It is not like she killed someone accidentally.
I don't see any treatment that could undo what she did. She had a lot of help before, she made a choice.




 I agree I DO feel sorry for the infant Alyssa and the young Alyssa. I do not feel bad for this 15 yr old Alyssa that killed EIZABETH   FOR NO REASON(not that I bleieve there is any reason to kill a nine yr old). Even if there were "reasons" why she did it. IT CAN NOT BE UNDONE. If Alyssa cant live life as it is, witout killing, how would she live the life she has created for herslef now. Guilt is one the those things in life that will drive you insane if you are not already. If all the counseling and grandparents trying and church, and friends couldnt "help" this girl, what can..The answer is NOTHING.... So therefore ALL the Elizabeths in the world need protected from her.  I am very srry if a mantal illness casued this..or if she is "this" or "that". I am also sorry her parents are idiots, and life was not what she wnated.. but it doesnt matter how sorry I am, she doesnt need freedom to kill again.. that is what it boils down to. She tricked/fooled professionals grandparents and friends..she knows what to do, to convince them she is "so sorry" or "she will never do it again" I say please state of Mo, do not rick any other children or adults life by letting her out, to test the theory of whether or not she can be reahbilitated.. It would take another death to find out the answer to that.. that is too high a price to pay..

 Sadly I too would adminster the DP if asked. It would break my heart, and I would cry all the while, but I could do it. That is more compassion then she showed ELIZABETH


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 24, 2009, 06:29:27 PM
I keep wondering what ELIZABETH would want to happen. I wonder if Elizabeth was alive and another child had been killed by AB, what Elizabeth would think should happen to AB... Would she want her to "just get help" or like so many of us to be put under the jail, and the world protected from her??

 Then the whole truth hit me hard.. Elizabeth never got old enough to have to worry about these questions. She wasnt old enough to be able to rap her mind around something like this. She would have been protected by her parents from as much information of this case as possible because...she was JUST TOO YOUNG!!!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Lenie on November 24, 2009, 06:41:53 PM
Lenie,
I would like to say how truly sorry what happended to your friend.  I agree with what you are saying; people will only show what they want us to see. 

However in this case Alyssa did not hide what a monster she was.  She posted it all on the internet for everyone, mainly her friends, to see.  So when her friends are going to the media (wither it is an interview or posting a comment for the world to see) about them being shocked, and that Alyssa was a normal teenager who liked to laugh, I feel they are being stupid.   I do feel every comment about Alyssa being a normal teenager with normal problems is an insult to Elizabeth! To both her short life and her horrific death.

As far as her friends being confused, because they feel they have been tricked by Alyssa, there are more appropriate outlets for them to discuss their confusion.  They have parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, school councilors, other friends, their parents, trust teacher, school councilor, priest, pastor....This is more appropriate and defiantly more respectful to Elizabeth and her family.





I agree that Alyssa put it all out there for people to see what type of person she was turning into. I had posted a few pages back about classes that I taught at the library. I taught the parents and grandparents how to "google" their kids. Showed them websites where they needed to look. You would not believe some of the stuff they found. Not saying they were or not, but the grandparents may not have had a clue. I think Alyssa was very good at being the person someone wanted her to be. Unfortunately I think this will also work to her benefit here. She knows to get away with this horrible horrible murder that she has committed that she will need to prove that she is crazy. If they find her insane then she will be able to work on "getting better". We all know what she deserves but I fear that she is going to get off very lightly.

I also think that her "friends" should do a lot of soul searching. I know what friendship is, but if any of my friends would have put the kind of information out there that Alyssa did, I would have went to my parents. They need to realize that they own a piece of this.

If it goes to trial I wish that the prosecutor would ask for a change of venue. I agree with a lot here who think that because of Elizabeth's dad and brother that this case was handled differently.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: cookie on November 24, 2009, 07:06:55 PM
Nut,
I am sorry you were attacked.  You are a strong advocate for children, elderly and the disabled. You deserve a big "THANK YOU" for everything you do.  ::MonkeyAngel::

just catching up here...but I agree with Burkie...I value you as a person and your opinion on matters and I have to truthfully say that I have never ever seen you be rude or impolite to anyone...how do you keep your cool?  ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: espresso on November 24, 2009, 07:14:21 PM
Hi Monkeys!
   I've been cooking like crazy trying to get ready for Thanksgiving and popping in to try to keep up. I guess I miss the fireworks! But I do want to put my two cents in. I love this forum because you can have a difference of opinion and be able to discuss it. I don't understand what the he** happened with Tisk but it seemed that offense was taken when it wasn't warranted. We are all open to life experiences especially if it gives a clue into someone's mindeset. It helps put the pieces together. You know the saying--not all sociopaths are serial killers but all serial killers are sociopaths-LOL. Anyway, I think all of you are amazing, I'm glad to be here and I wish all of you and yours a very Happy Thanksgiving. Please remeber the Oltens family as they will have one less seat this year.  ::MonkeyAngel:: RIP ELizabeth


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 24, 2009, 07:26:50 PM
Lenie,
I would like to say how truly sorry what happended to your friend.  I agree with what you are saying; people will only show what they want us to see. 

However in this case Alyssa did not hide what a monster she was.  She posted it all on the internet for everyone, mainly her friends, to see.  So when her friends are going to the media (wither it is an interview or posting a comment for the world to see) about them being shocked, and that Alyssa was a normal teenager who liked to laugh, I feel they are being stupid.   I do feel every comment about Alyssa being a normal teenager with normal problems is an insult to Elizabeth! To both her short life and her horrific death.

As far as her friends being confused, because they feel they have been tricked by Alyssa, there are more appropriate outlets for them to discuss their confusion.  They have parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, school councilors, other friends, their parents, trust teacher, school councilor, priest, pastor....This is more appropriate and defiantly more respectful to Elizabeth and her family.





I agree that Alyssa put it all out there for people to see what type of person she was turning into. I had posted a few pages back about classes that I taught at the library. I taught the parents and grandparents how to "google" their kids. Showed them websites where they needed to look. You would not believe some of the stuff they found. Not saying they were or not, but the grandparents may not have had a clue. I think Alyssa was very good at being the person someone wanted her to be. Unfortunately I think this will also work to her benefit here. She knows to get away with this horrible horrible murder that she has committed that she will need to prove that she is crazy. If they find her insane then she will be able to work on "getting better". We all know what she deserves but I fear that she is going to get off very lightly.

I also think that her "friends" should do a lot of soul searching. I know what friendship is, but if any of my friends would have put the kind of information out there that Alyssa did, I would have went to my parents. They need to realize that they own a piece of this.

If it goes to trial I wish that the prosecutor would ask for a change of venue. I agree with a lot here who think that because of Elizabeth's dad and brother that this case was handled differently.
:smt099

I am sorry about what went on here a few posts back. I do believe all opinions should be heard. That is how we learn to discern information. TiskTisk has had her personal experience and obviously has had a hard time.  I find myself hypersensitive as well and perhaps she was having a bad day. I don't think it was at Nutt personally but at anyone who doesn't have sympathy for those who are troubled in life. Yes we all have our personal stories.  I for one was adopted and raised by a woman who never completed third grade in school and never aspired anything important for herself or for me.  Thankfully I rose above it, but to this day I am sure many of my insecurities stem from my upbringing.   I think in a while TiskTisk would have seen how her post was taken and maybe we could have gotten past it.  I have seen far worse on forums I have been on before. I for one always thought Ronald Cummings was lying from the get go.

Anyway thank you Espresso for the TG wishes.   I think things are pretty much at a standstill in this case until next week.  But I'll be lurking. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Shinju on November 24, 2009, 07:30:06 PM
Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 24, 2009, 08:10:02 PM
LL LOVE YOU ELIZABETH. MAY GOD BLESS YOUR FAMILY!!!! ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2009, 08:33:50 PM
Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO

I agree Shinju


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 24, 2009, 08:57:28 PM
Friend of murder suspect says teen pondered killing

ST. LOUIS | A friend says 15-year-old murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante mentioned in January that she wondered what it would be like to kill someone.

Jennifer Meyer told St. Louis TV station KMOV that Bustamante made the comment during a birthday party. But Meyer said she did not think Bustamante intended to kill anyone.

“I was at her party, and she kind of just took me off to the side randomly and she's like, 'You know, I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody,' because I guess she was mad at one of her friends there, but it just seemed kind of strange,” Meyer said. “But you wouldn't logically think one of your friends would kill somebody.”

Authorities say Bustamante has given them a similar explanation for the Oct. 21 killing of 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten. They say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut Elizabeth's throat because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone.

Law officers say Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

Last week, Bustamante was indicted as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action. If convicted of first-degree murder, she would face life in prison without parole.

Meyer said she had been friends with Bustamante for several years and that the two attended birthday parties and sleepovers. Meyer said she last spoke with Bustamante two days before Elizabeth was killed.

Meyer said Bustamante became angry when Meyer refused to go with her to a party that involved drugs and then told Bustamante not to bring them to Meyer's house.

“I have a little brother and sister, and I was like, 'I don't think that's a good idea,'” Meyer said. “And then she started kind of getting angry.”

Bustamante has been held at the Morgan County jail, but her attorney has sought to have her transferred to a state psychiatric hospital because the teen shows signs of severe depression and anxiety.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1591610.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 24, 2009, 09:35:32 PM
Alyssa Bustamante will be sent to mental hospital for evaluation
<snipped>

Alyssa Bustamante has been held at the Morgan County jail since being indicted last Wednesday as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the killing of her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten. According to a very reliable source, she is in with the general population and is allowed contact with other inmates, despite media reports to the contrary. She is not in lockdown or under suicide watch.

Last week, Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce ordered her to be taken to the Fulton State Hospital for up to 96 hours. The judge wrote the order on Thursday, but it was unclear when the order was to begin because it had no time stamp. She was supposed to be moved to the hospital after her lawyer said she showed signs of severe depression and anxiety.

http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: arrivaderci on November 24, 2009, 11:48:24 PM
Let's all say a prayer that justice will be done in this case, I'm hearing a lot of back and forth on whether or not this girl is insane, or just cold blooded, well honestly, it doesn't really matter. She is a danger, plain and simple. Rationally, I do not think any of us will ever be able to understand why such an awful event took place or just want it is that lead AB to do such evil things, there really is no explanation other than she did something horrible, and she needs to be removed from society where she cannot hurt again, because she will hurt again, this is evidenced by her digging TWO graves, not one but TWO..She wasn't going to stop at one, she intended to keep going. Sociopath, or pyschopath, it really matters very little to me, because in her comment of "just wanted to see what it felt like.." I don't see how that can be rehabilitated out of her, it's very very sad. And we as a nation are left at a loss with what to do with this 15 year old CHILD, who is also a MURDERER, its incomprehensible. I don't know the answer, I only hope and pray that a jury does, and sees this case for what it truly is..

A big THANK YOU to everyone who continually finds new information on this case, I am not so good at all this digging around, so I rarely have something new to bring to the table except for my opinions, but you all are fighting for elizabeth, and many many people are praying because you are keeping the story alive, THANK YOU ::MonkeyCheer4::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Jan_in_Tx on November 25, 2009, 12:09:33 AM
Just checking in...I started a new job last week so haven't had much time to post, but I've been lurking every night.  Hope everyone has a blessed Thanksgiving with their families. Praying for the Olten's too. RIP sweet angel...  ::MonkeyAngel:: Elizabeth


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Wyks on November 25, 2009, 12:29:50 AM
Remember when Alyssa's former atty said this: 

(bolded by me)

"There's been a lot of speculation, but now we will have in giant headlines my client's name," Valentine said. "There is no way in the world that could possibly be in the best interest of this particular juvenile."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html)

That was about a month ago, and he was referring to not wanting a hearing to be open to the public.  He also didn't want the gender or name released.  It seems to many of us that this atty wanted 'his client' to be treated special.  And his choice of words "... this particular juvenile" seemed verrrrrrrrrry odd.  IMO, those words alone brought extra attention to his client.

It was those choice of words that made many of us sit up and go huh??  Why would he say that?  Just who the heck was this juvenile?  What about this juvenile was sooooo unique? 

We learned the gender, her name, who her grandparents are, etc.  She isn't a Kennedy, don't think she's related to the town mayor, the state governor, or the president of the USA.  In fact, I can't for the life of me figure out just what is so friggin unique about her, that would merit being referred to as "this particular juvenile".  Has anyone else? 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 25, 2009, 12:40:54 AM
Remember when Alyssa's former atty said this: 

(bolded by me)

"There's been a lot of speculation, but now we will have in giant headlines my client's name," Valentine said. "There is no way in the world that could possibly be in the best interest of this particular juvenile."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html)

That was about a month ago, and he was referring to not wanting a hearing to be open to the public.  He also didn't want the gender or name released.  It seems to many of us that this atty wanted 'his client' to be treated special.  And his choice of words "... this particular juvenile" seemed verrrrrrrrrry odd.  IMO, those words alone brought extra attention to his client.

It was those choice of words that made many of us sit up and go huh??  Why would he say that?  Just who the heck was this juvenile?  What about this juvenile was sooooo unique? 

We learned the gender, her name, who her grandparents are, etc.  She isn't a Kennedy, don't think she's related to the town mayor, the state governor, or the president of the USA.  In fact, I can't for the life of me figure out just what is so friggin unique about her, that would merit being referred to as "this particular juvenile".  Has anyone else? 


Nope.  I have found far more things that made Elizabeth special. Elizabeth was kind, she loved anumals, and cared about her family and friends. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 25, 2009, 12:51:44 AM
Last night I caught a repeat of an interesting crime drama.  The teen boy was extremely bright and had a secret desire to kill prostitutes.  He would write about it (and other dark horrible things) and fantasize about it, although he was also extremely tortured by it.  He couldn't understand why he would be obsessed with such a horrible thing and knew he must be crazy.  He even made the comment about feeling their blood dripping on he hands!  He reached out to a few people and asked strange questions or make off-handed comments that raised eyebrows but people dismissed them as strange.  He was so drawn to the fantasy and decided to just do it.  In the case of the show, he was so tortured he ended up stabbing himself instead, but I was shocked at the similarities.  Wondered if this is a psychological profile of a certain type of disturbed individual.

Also, on some level Alyssa had to have been reaching out for help or something.  Who says that kind of stuff to friends (or anyone!)???  There is a known risk that someone might tell an adult.  If she really had some undesirable urge to kill (which is kind of sounds like she did), I wonder what could have been done.  Well, the fact that she even HAD the desire is messed up for sure.  I just so desperately want to be able to understand this whole mess, how it might have been avoided, IF it could have been avoided (because my brain just wants to believe it could have been)....

just a crazy show and I thought of you Monkeys while I was watching it. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: nana0567 on November 25, 2009, 01:56:32 AM
Remember when Alyssa's former atty said this: 

(bolded by me)

"There's been a lot of speculation, but now we will have in giant headlines my client's name," Valentine said. "There is no way in the world that could possibly be in the best interest of this particular juvenile."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html)

That was about a month ago, and he was referring to not wanting a hearing to be open to the public.  He also didn't want the gender or name released.  It seems to many of us that this atty wanted 'his client' to be treated special.  And his choice of words "... this particular juvenile" seemed verrrrrrrrrry odd.  IMO, those words alone brought extra attention to his client.

It was those choice of words that made many of us sit up and go huh??  Why would he say that?  Just who the heck was this juvenile?  What about this juvenile was sooooo unique? 

We learned the gender, her name, who her grandparents are, etc.  She isn't a Kennedy, don't think she's related to the town mayor, the state governor, or the president of the USA.  In fact, I can't for the life of me figure out just what is so friggin unique about her, that would merit being referred to as "this particular juvenile".  Has anyone else? 


Nope.  I have found far more things that made Elizabeth special. Elizabeth was kind, she loved anumals, and cared about her family and friends. 
I thought it was cute when I heard someone say Elizabeth wanted to be a mom when she grew up. That's so sweet and typical of a child at her age.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 25, 2009, 02:00:28 AM
Did anyone see the Dr. Phil show today?It was about a 10 year old boy who was killing animals,goldfish, pushing his mother and trying to hurt her? Dr Phil said get all animals away from him. He is getting them help. If only Alyssa's grandparents could maybe have gotten attention to Alyssa this could all have been averted. I know Dr. Phil is a bag of wind, but he does have a lot of resoures at his disposal and some kind of in patient treatment center may have prevented this. I don't know. But if she is not a psychopath and is insane, perhaps the right meds could help. Prozac is a very benign drug. Not strong at all.   I still don't know why she was left alone with her brothers or other children. She was dangerous to herself and others, and the GP knew as did her counsellors.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 25, 2009, 03:34:12 AM
I think this will be her defense and it may well be deserved/
Doing research on Prozac and found this:Akathisia was associated with acts of extreme violence in an article in the American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry, which described three patients who attacked other people or committed murder.17 Other researchers have noted that patients who take Prozac and develop akathisia may, in turn, become preoccupied with thoughts of suicide.18, 19 A 1991 article in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, for example, reports on three patients who attempted suicide during fluoxetine treatment and were then reexposed to the drug. The second time around, all three developed severe akathisia and said the condition made them feel suicidal; they also attributed their previous suicide attempts to akathisia.20



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 25, 2009, 07:53:14 AM
Remember when Alyssa's former atty said this: 

(bolded by me)

"There's been a lot of speculation, but now we will have in giant headlines my client's name," Valentine said. "There is no way in the world that could possibly be in the best interest of this particular juvenile."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570055,00.html)

That was about a month ago, and he was referring to not wanting a hearing to be open to the public.  He also didn't want the gender or name released.  It seems to many of us that this atty wanted 'his client' to be treated special.  And his choice of words "... this particular juvenile" seemed verrrrrrrrrry odd.  IMO, those words alone brought extra attention to his client.

It was those choice of words that made many of us sit up and go huh??  Why would he say that?  Just who the heck was this juvenile?  What about this juvenile was sooooo unique? 

We learned the gender, her name, who her grandparents are, etc.  She isn't a Kennedy, don't think she's related to the town mayor, the state governor, or the president of the USA.  In fact, I can't for the life of me figure out just what is so friggin unique about her, that would merit being referred to as "this particular juvenile".  Has anyone else? 


I never took it to mean that there was something special about his client. I always took it to mean this particular juvenile in this particular (high profile) case. The emphasis being on this particular crime. All attorneys in high profile cases want to limit media exposure to their clients(naturally). This is an extremely inflammatory crime so he doesnt want his clients name/face associated with Elizabeth's murder in the media frenzy prior to a trial.  IT seems to me that this particular sound bite has got more play that it really deserved. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 25, 2009, 11:46:15 AM
Father of Alleged Elizabeth Olten Killer Alyssa Bustamante Has Violent Past

NEW YORK (CBS) Alyssa Bustamante, the teenager who allegedly killed Missouri 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, grew up in a turbulent household, say friends, and may not be the only Bustamante disposed to violence. Records show her father is a convicted felon.

Police say Alyssa Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut her next door neighbor Elizabeth Olten's throat in October, then, two days later, led police to the wooded grave where she allegedly buried her.

But long before the alleged murder, Alyssa Bustamante's home life was full of emotional torment, according to court records and friends, who say that Bustamante, 15, was mostly raised by her grandparents while her mother struggled with substance abuse and her father was in jail.

Alyssa Bustamante's grandmother, Karen Brooke, became the girl's legal guardian when she was 7-years-old, according to court records obtained by the Jefferson City News Tribune. She also took on responsibility for Alyssa's two younger brothers, the paper said.

Meanwhile, Alyssa Bustamante's mother, Michelle Bustamante, struggled to pay rent and racked up three misdemeanor criminal convictions, including one for drunken driving and another for marijuana possession, according to court records obtained by the paper.

Her father, 34-year-old Ceaser Bustamante, whose identity was confirmed by the Cole County Sheriff's Dept., is serving three concurrent prison terms for three counts of felony assault in Missouri Eastern Correctional Facility, according to a spokesperson for the Missouri Dept. of Corrections.

Jennifer Meyer, a friend of Alyssa Bustamante's since middle school, told Crimesider in an exclusive Nov. 20 phone interview, that Alyssa's father had been arrested for "stabbing someone." Local police have not yet confirmed that detail to Crimesider.

Alyssa Bustamante also seemed to have a dangerous penchant for knives and cutting.

According to the Associated Press, Bustamante listed her hobbies as "cutting" and "killing people" in her YouTube profile, which has since been taken down.

In a photo (left), obtained exclusively by Crimesider, a series of what appear to be self-inflicted red cut marks are visible from the top of Alyssa Bustamante's left wrist to almost halfway down her arm.

Another exclusive Crimesider photo (top) shows what appears to be Alyssa Bustamante's hand holding a knife that has something red on its blade. In the photo, the hand is mock-stabbing a friend in the stomach. The hand is tagged as Bustamante on Facebook and the nail polish and shirt sleeve match Alyssa Bustamante's appearance in other pictures in the group.

Alyssa Bustamante's friend Jennifer Meyer told Crimesider that Bustamante tried to kill herself several times since she was 11, and that one attempt involved cutting.

That seems to jibe with Alyssa Bustamante's court appointed juvenile justice officer, who, on Nov. 18, said Bustamante attempted suicide two years ago and had received both inpatient and outpatient mental health treatment for depression and cutting herself.

On Friday, Nov. 20, a judge ordered Bustamante to Fulton State Hospital for up to four full days of psychological evaluation.

If Bustamante is convicted of first-degree murder, she would face a sentence of life in prison without parole. A judge has entered a plea of "not guilty" on her behalf.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/24/crimesider/entry5761341.shtml


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: QueenieB on November 25, 2009, 12:51:50 PM
Something else I was thinking (and this is purely commentary), is that although she had reportedly been receiving some sort of counseling services, my experience in the public school system with a great many children receiving services, is that a lot of these "therapists" are a bunch of kooks with degrees.  A lot of them spew a bunch of "feel good" mumbo jumbo about being in touch with your feelings and not squelching a child's spirit.  OF COURSE I DON'T MEAN ALL PSYCH PROFESSIONALS....but it used to drive me batty. 

I was wondering why a child, whose father is serving time for stabbing, who has attempted suicide at least twice and who is a known Cutter, would be allowed to wear a hatchet necklace charm...I can just hear some pyschobabble about letting her find a safe way to express her inner turmoil, yada yada yada.

The fact that she was on Prozac for a diagnosed "Depression" issue...we don't know how long she had been on those meds but they were clearly not the answer to her problem.  She is "Angry" not "Depressed".  And frankly, IMO, the grandparents should have sent her butt to a strict military type girls camp to help her.  I am sure there are many that are tried and true.  I LOVE my kids with all my heart and while it would absolute break my heart, if one of them was displaying such self destructive and disrespectful behaviors openly and without remorse, my responsibility to my other, younger children is to remove all harmful influences.  Done OUT OF LOVE for ALL the children and with the clear explanation that it would NOT be tolerated.  PERIOD.

We don't really know all that was being done in an attempt to help Alyssa.  But just to say "she was seeing a therapist" even if it was weekly, but was still permitted to behave in the ways in which we have all seen in MANY photos, is the equivalent (IMO) of making a person with food issues eat carrots once a week and expecting them to make wise dietary choices the rest of the week.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 25, 2009, 01:05:52 PM
First off and O/T....

I want to wish everyone a very happy and safe Thanksgiving! I am thankful to know that good people with huge hearts can be found on this earth (like you). Thank you for all the work you spend on this site. You all are incredible! ::MonkeyKiss::

Back to the case...

I honestly feel like she isn't insane. I think she KNEW what she was doing. One of my friends got a DUI when we were in HS and she was shocked that her parents were mad because her dad had gotten one a month earlier...KINDA makes a point. It is hypocritical for a dad to tell you not to do something that he is guilty of (he didn't learn from his mistake.. he kept drinking)! (Obviously, no parents would condone a DUI or any type of trouble for that matter) BUT I feel like Alyssa probably didn't think she would be in that much trouble. Most underaged people don't think about life in prison, etc they think about being grounded and missing fun school parties. I feel like she probably didn't think this out too well!!

Minors these days are NOT thinking about the long run which is a problem. I mean think how about how much information we have gotten on the internet about all of these people? Imagine when they want to get a JOB and grow up. If you found all these weird pictures, quotes, etc that we have found on Alyssa and her friend's pages.. would you want to hire them? These kids need a reality check and FAST!! Where are their parents?!?! Grrrr!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: burkieandemme on November 25, 2009, 01:06:11 PM
I think this will be her defense and it may well be deserved/
Doing research on Prozac and found this:Akathisia was associated with acts of extreme violence in an article in the American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry, which described three patients who attacked other people or committed murder.17 Other researchers have noted that patients who take Prozac and develop akathisia may, in turn, become preoccupied with thoughts of suicide.18, 19 A 1991 article in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, for example, reports on three patients who attempted suicide during fluoxetine treatment and were then reexposed to the drug. The second time around, all three developed severe akathisia and said the condition made them feel suicidal; they also attributed their previous suicide attempts to akathisia.20


When I first read that Alyssa was on Prozac I thought this would be her defense as well.  Prozac can have detrimental side effects in teens, but this can not be her "get out of jail free card".  (Not directed to you Karen...but the defense.) 

IMO I feel Alyssa played a dangerous game of who can be meaner and scarier which lead her thoughts from harming herself, to harming others, which eventually lead to Elizabeth's death.  If this progression can be proven (which I believe it can with everything she had posted on-line alone) the defense can not claim Alyssa's murderous act stemmed from taking Prozac alone. 







Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Louisiana5487 on November 25, 2009, 01:12:02 PM
I think this will be her defense and it may well be deserved/
Doing research on Prozac and found this:Akathisia was associated with acts of extreme violence in an article in the American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry, which described three patients who attacked other people or committed murder.17 Other researchers have noted that patients who take Prozac and develop akathisia may, in turn, become preoccupied with thoughts of suicide.18, 19 A 1991 article in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, for example, reports on three patients who attempted suicide during fluoxetine treatment and were then reexposed to the drug. The second time around, all three developed severe akathisia and said the condition made them feel suicidal; they also attributed their previous suicide attempts to akathisia.20


When I first read that Alyssa was on Prozac I thought this would be her defense as well.  Prozac can have detrimental side effects in teens, but this can not be her "get out of jail free card".  (Not directed to you Karen...but the defense.) 

IMO I feel Alyssa played a dangerous game of who can be meaner and scarier which lead her thoughts from harming herself, to harming others, which eventually lead to Elizabeth's death.  If this progression can be proven (which I believe it can with everything she had posted on-line alone) the defense can not claim Alyssa's murderous act stemmed from taking Prozac alone. 







O/T
Burkieandemme: I have a picture in front of those same honey pots :) hehe Gotta love DL.

I have a question....I have never taken any type of depression medication or anxiety pills, etc. I feel like they are overly prescribed these days instead of finding root problems. I DO think a lot of people NEED them-I am in NO way against medication! But, how can a teenager or child learn how to react in situations when medication does it for them? I have had hard times and by all means, IT WASNT FUN, but those times made me grow soo much as a person....I feel like medication could be harmful for maturing mentally. Am I wrong?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bananas on November 25, 2009, 01:22:53 PM
I think this will be her defense and it may well be deserved/
Doing research on Prozac and found this:Akathisia was associated with acts of extreme violence in an article in the American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry, which described three patients who attacked other people or committed murder.17 Other researchers have noted that patients who take Prozac and develop akathisia may, in turn, become preoccupied with thoughts of suicide.18, 19 A 1991 article in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, for example, reports on three patients who attempted suicide during fluoxetine treatment and were then reexposed to the drug. The second time around, all three developed severe akathisia and said the condition made them feel suicidal; they also attributed their previous suicide attempts to akathisia.20


When I first read that Alyssa was on Prozac I thought this would be her defense as well.  Prozac can have detrimental side effects in teens, but this can not be her "get out of jail free card".  (Not directed to you Karen...but the defense.) 

IMO I feel Alyssa played a dangerous game of who can be meaner and scarier which lead her thoughts from harming herself, to harming others, which eventually lead to Elizabeth's death.  If this progression can be proven (which I believe it can with everything she had posted on-line alone) the defense can not claim Alyssa's murderous act stemmed from taking Prozac alone. 







O/T
Burkieandemme: I have a picture in front of those same honey pots :) hehe Gotta love DL.

I have a question....I have never taken any type of depression medication or anxiety pills, etc. I feel like they are overly prescribed these days instead of finding root problems. I DO think a lot of people NEED them-I am in NO way against medication! But, how can a teenager or child learn how to react in situations when medication does it for them? I have had hard times and by all means, IT WASNT FUN, but those times made me grow soo much as a person....I feel like medication could be harmful for maturing mentally. Am I wrong?

I agree with this..... how can you ever deal with a problem and solve it, if you are just taking happy pills to pretend everything is OK?  Way too many drugs are being prescribed by pill pushing doctors.  JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: burkieandemme on November 25, 2009, 01:40:08 PM
O/T
Burkieandemme: I have a picture in front of those same honey pots :) hehe Gotta love DL.

I have a question....I have never taken any type of depression medication or anxiety pills, etc. I feel like they are overly prescribed these days instead of finding root problems. I DO think a lot of people NEED them-I am in NO way against medication! But, how can a teenager or child learn how to react in situations when medication does it for them? I have had hard times and by all means, IT WASNT FUN, but those times made me grow soo much as a person....I feel like medication could be harmful for maturing mentally. Am I wrong?
[/quote]

Yes!! Disneyland is the best!!!  ::MonkeyDance::

I am in the same boat as you, although I do not personally have anything against prescribing antidepressants to adults.  I do feel if we teach our children take a pill and everything will be better, then we are not exposing to life. 

Granted there are extreme situations when an antidepressant needs to be prescribed.  When this occasion does arrive, these children need to be observed more than one a week/month etc. and any change in behavior should be examined immediately to see if it is related to the medication.

However, with Alyssa, I think QueenieB said it all.  She was just angry and should have been sent to military school/boot camp.  It would have given her a sense of self that medication could never have.
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: burkieandemme on November 25, 2009, 01:43:37 PM
Sorry Louisanna5487, I messed up that quote. 

(I will get this eventually....)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 25, 2009, 07:20:37 PM
Don't miss Dana Pretzer at 9pm ET tonight!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/Pretzer112509.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: bigmoney on November 25, 2009, 07:26:45 PM
what is the December 7th hearing for? A stauts hearing? Is that just a hearing to determine if the defendant has legal representation? Any info is appreciated. Oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: GemXx on November 25, 2009, 07:46:36 PM
Something else I was thinking (and this is purely commentary), is that although she had reportedly been receiving some sort of counseling services, my experience in the public school system with a great many children receiving services, is that a lot of these "therapists" are a bunch of kooks with degrees.  A lot of them spew a bunch of "feel good" mumbo jumbo about being in touch with your feelings and not squelching a child's spirit.  OF COURSE I DON'T MEAN ALL PSYCH PROFESSIONALS....but it used to drive me batty. 

I was wondering why a child, whose father is serving time for stabbing, who has attempted suicide at least twice and who is a known Cutter, would be allowed to wear a hatchet necklace charm...I can just hear some pyschobabble about letting her find a safe way to express her inner turmoil, yada yada yada.

The fact that she was on Prozac for a diagnosed "Depression" issue...we don't know how long she had been on those meds but they were clearly not the answer to her problem.  She is "Angry" not "Depressed".  And frankly, IMO, the grandparents should have sent her butt to a strict military type girls camp to help her.  I am sure there are many that are tried and true.  I LOVE my kids with all my heart and while it would absolute break my heart, if one of them was displaying such self destructive and disrespectful behaviors openly and without remorse, my responsibility to my other, younger children is to remove all harmful influences.  Done OUT OF LOVE for ALL the children and with the clear explanation that it would NOT be tolerated.  PERIOD.

We don't really know all that was being done in an attempt to help Alyssa.  But just to say "she was seeing a therapist" even if it was weekly, but was still permitted to behave in the ways in which we have all seen in MANY photos, is the equivalent (IMO) of making a person with food issues eat carrots once a week and expecting them to make wise dietary choices the rest of the week.
Most counselors at schools are just out of college and still in training. They are working for free or little pay as they rack up enough hours to open up a private practice. Many are very good, but they lack experience to deal with a person who is like Alyssa.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: GemXx on November 25, 2009, 07:58:20 PM
I think this will be her defense and it may well be deserved/
Doing research on Prozac and found this:Akathisia was associated with acts of extreme violence in an article in the American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry, which described three patients who attacked other people or committed murder.17 Other researchers have noted that patients who take Prozac and develop akathisia may, in turn, become preoccupied with thoughts of suicide.18, 19 A 1991 article in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, for example, reports on three patients who attempted suicide during fluoxetine treatment and were then reexposed to the drug. The second time around, all three developed severe akathisia and said the condition made them feel suicidal; they also attributed their previous suicide attempts to akathisia.20


When I first read that Alyssa was on Prozac I thought this would be her defense as well.  Prozac can have detrimental side effects in teens, but this can not be her "get out of jail free card".  (Not directed to you Karen...but the defense.) 

IMO I feel Alyssa played a dangerous game of who can be meaner and scarier which lead her thoughts from harming herself, to harming others, which eventually lead to Elizabeth's death.  If this progression can be proven (which I believe it can with everything she had posted on-line alone) the defense can not claim Alyssa's murderous act stemmed from taking Prozac alone. 







O/T
Burkieandemme: I have a picture in front of those same honey pots :) hehe Gotta love DL.

I have a question....I have never taken any type of depression medication or anxiety pills, etc. I feel like they are overly prescribed these days instead of finding root problems. I DO think a lot of people NEED them-I am in NO way against medication! But, how can a teenager or child learn how to react in situations when medication does it for them? I have had hard times and by all means, IT WASNT FUN, but those times made me grow soo much as a person....I feel like medication could be harmful for maturing mentally. Am I wrong?

I agree with this..... how can you ever deal with a problem and solve it, if you are just taking happy pills to pretend everything is OK?  Way too many drugs are being prescribed by pill pushing doctors.  JMO
I am bipolar and my mother was as well. A big problem with medications is not getting a good diagnoses. When I first say a doctor I thought I was depressed. I did not see the manic episodes as bad. I got my diagnoses as bipolar because the paxil I was given worked a little too well. SSRIs can make people with bipolar manic; very manic. Kids on medications like these need to be watched all the time. I have a hard time understanding why she would have been given prozac, it is old and there are much better meds out there that do the same thing with milder side effects. I don't think it is a drug that is given to children very often.
I don't know what is wrong with Alyssa, but it is not depression. I hope she is not given a milder sentence because of this. Think of the message that would send to others in her position.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: KarenK on November 25, 2009, 08:04:25 PM
In regard to Prozac. I agree for the majority of people Prozac is a benign antidepressant. I had a post partum depression 22 years ago when Prozac first came out.  My friend was a psychologist and I told her of my thoughts of how many years did I have left to live, fear of dying,asking questions about God and wanting proof so I read incessantly.  I would see people at a shopping mall and wonder how could they be so easygoing when they were all going to die.     She told me that was not something counselling alone would help and she sent me to a psychiatrist.    First was given an awful drug called Tofranil. Had horrible nightmares. Then when Prozac was approved, about 2 months later, I was put on Prozac and within a day or two I was better.    It was like turning the light switch back on.  I took it for 2 months and although she wanted me to continue on it, I quit and it has never returned. I had no side effects. It was as benign as aspirin.

However, in a teenager with hormones raging, with a history of suicidal attempt, who knows that this did not have the opposite effect on her?  It is well documented.   Do some googling and you will see. Obviously she needed help beyond counselling with her problems. She is not in a normal frame of mind. That doesn't mean she didn't kill in cold blood as sure as a Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: klaasend on November 25, 2009, 08:54:22 PM
Don't miss Dana Pretzer at 9pm ET tonight!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/Pretzer112509.jpg)

Click on the link below:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: FBIwannabe on November 26, 2009, 12:00:03 AM
In reference to the attorney's statement about "this particular juvenile,"  I've never felt he was implying that she was special in a good way, which I mentioned in another post many pages ago  ::MonkeyConfused::  I have wondered since reading that what kinds of horrible things might be associated with her name and face in Califonia or elsewhere that would be easier to keep hidden if she were tried as a juvenile in this case.  Who knows? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 26, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Alyssa Bustamante: "Murder is a very serious thing" friend declares in video interview

On Monday, I reported on an interview Jennifer Meyer, friend of teenage murder suspect, Alyssa Bustamante, gave to CBS's "The Early Show." Meyer claimed that Bustamante told her she wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone.

Bustamante, 15, has been charged with the first-degree murder of nine-year-old Elizabeth Olten. She has been charged as an adult in the stabbing, strangulation, and throat-slitting murder of Olten on October 21, 2009.

Below you will find an excellent video interview conducted by St. Louis NBC-affiliate KMOV Channel 4's Mark Schnyder with Meyer. The shorter packaged interview can be seen here.

The longer, uncut interview below, however, is by the far superior of the two.

In it Meyer talks about her former friend, Bustamante. She mentions that they once used to go to birthday parties together. Lately, however, Bustamante wanted to go to drug parties.

Meyer talks about Bustamante's strict grandparents and also how the girl would get mad at people.

Meyer also expands on her comment about wanting Bustamante to kill another person and that the comment was made at Bustamante's own birthday party in January 2009.

Meyer also claimed that Bustamante hit her sister, Emma, and also wanted to see her and her little brothers hurt. 

In trying to make sense of her friend's allegedly murderous deed, Meyer stated, "Everyone has their own kind of strangeness." She added, however, "I don't think anyone can be forgiven for that."

Meyer succinctly closed with, "Murder is a very serious thing. I think she deserves what's coming to her."

-Read the indictment against Alyssa Bustamante.

http://www.examiner.com/x-30774-High-Profile-Crime-Examiner~y2009m11d25-ALYSSA-BUSTAMANTE-Murder-is-a-very-serious-thing-friend-declares-in-video-interview


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Northern Rose on November 26, 2009, 10:16:38 AM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 26, 2009, 10:41:43 AM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers
Northern, thanks for this article. I remember the day Adrienne was found and how long it took for Diane Zamora to tell what happened to her friends at the Naval Academy. If it hadn't have been for her telling her dark secret, Adrienne would never have found justice. I watched the full trial and all the BS about the reason DZ did it, Dad left mom, fear of losing the bf, blah, blah blah. She was a spiteful, vindictive person and I am glad she was sentenced to Life. The worse part of the trial was the victim's impact statement given by Adrienne's little brother. I broke down watching that.  ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 26, 2009, 05:14:02 PM
In reference to the attorney's statement about "this particular juvenile,"  I've never felt he was implying that she was special in a good way, which I mentioned in another post many pages ago  ::MonkeyConfused::  I have wondered since reading that what kinds of horrible things might be associated with her name and face in Califonia or elsewhere that would be easier to keep hidden if she were tried as a juvenile in this case.  Who knows? 

I agree with you. I thought "this particular juvenile" meant there were things to be kept secret, and people that wanted to do it. Hopefully, some of these things will be able to come to light, but I still have my doubts that it will be the local media that digs them out. I hope the prosecutor will have the stomach to do it. I am still reserving my opinion on that for the time being. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on November 26, 2009, 05:20:10 PM
NORTHERN, thank you, as always, for the articles you posted today. No, Alyssa is not "special" since she is a juvenile. There have been documented cases for a long time. It was striking to me how little punishment that was given in earlier cases, and how much heavier it has gotten over the years.

Even Alyssa's friend Jennifer could see she should get what is coming to her. I hope the pleasure Alyssa got from "seeing how it feels" will be worth it to her in the end. Evil can only see pleasure in inflicting pain on another. JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 26, 2009, 08:11:39 PM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers
Northern, thanks for this article. I remember the day Adrienne was found and how long it took for Diane Zamora to tell what happened to her friends at the Naval Academy. If it hadn't have been for her telling her dark secret, Adrienne would never have found justice. I watched the full trial and all the BS about the reason DZ did it, Dad left mom, fear of losing the bf, blah, blah blah. She was a spiteful, vindictive person and I am glad she was sentenced to Life. The worse part of the trial was the victim's impact statement given by Adrienne's little brother. I broke down watching that.  ::MonkeyWaa::


 I worked int the prison where Zamora was housed(until about three yrs ago) and she is still and ugly B word.... She moved onto another unit, though.. was a happy day for us.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 27, 2009, 10:45:31 AM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers
Northern, thanks for this article. I remember the day Adrienne was found and how long it took for Diane Zamora to tell what happened to her friends at the Naval Academy. If it hadn't have been for her telling her dark secret, Adrienne would never have found justice. I watched the full trial and all the BS about the reason DZ did it, Dad left mom, fear of losing the bf, blah, blah blah. She was a spiteful, vindictive person and I am glad she was sentenced to Life. The worse part of the trial was the victim's impact statement given by Adrienne's little brother. I broke down watching that.  ::MonkeyWaa::


 I worked int the prison where Zamora was housed(until about three yrs ago) and she is still and ugly B word.... She moved onto another unit, though.. was a happy day for us.
Wow Txflame, I despise her with every sense of my being. She was so smug, arrogant and put on the airs of being so tiny and couldn't hurt a fly. I hope she is getting treated very harshly in prison (by prisoners, not the guards).


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: cookie on November 27, 2009, 11:18:59 AM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers
Northern, thanks for this article. I remember the day Adrienne was found and how long it took for Diane Zamora to tell what happened to her friends at the Naval Academy. If it hadn't have been for her telling her dark secret, Adrienne would never have found justice. I watched the full trial and all the BS about the reason DZ did it, Dad left mom, fear of losing the bf, blah, blah blah. She was a spiteful, vindictive person and I am glad she was sentenced to Life. The worse part of the trial was the victim's impact statement given by Adrienne's little brother. I broke down watching that.  ::MonkeyWaa::


 I worked int the prison where Zamora was housed(until about three yrs ago) and she is still and ugly B word.... She moved onto another unit, though.. was a happy day for us.
Wow Txflame, I despise her with every sense of my being. She was so smug, arrogant and put on the airs of being so tiny and couldn't hurt a fly. I hope she is getting treated very harshly in prison (by prisoners, not the guards).

agreed!
she thought that she would get off cause of being cute and little....jmo


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 27, 2009, 05:25:37 PM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers
Northern, thanks for this article. I remember the day Adrienne was found and how long it took for Diane Zamora to tell what happened to her friends at the Naval Academy. If it hadn't have been for her telling her dark secret, Adrienne would never have found justice. I watched the full trial and all the BS about the reason DZ did it, Dad left mom, fear of losing the bf, blah, blah blah. She was a spiteful, vindictive person and I am glad she was sentenced to Life. The worse part of the trial was the victim's impact statement given by Adrienne's little brother. I broke down watching that.  ::MonkeyWaa::


 I worked int the prison where Zamora was housed(until about three yrs ago) and she is still and ugly B word.... She moved onto another unit, though.. was a happy day for us.
Wow Txflame, I despise her with every sense of my being. She was so smug, arrogant and put on the airs of being so tiny and couldn't hurt a fly. I hope she is getting treated very harshly in prison (by prisoners, not the guards).

agreed!
she thought that she would get off cause of being cute and little....jmo


 From what I could tell, she wasnt well liked in prison, and still acts like she is "special". We had several high profilers.. Geneine Jones..the baby killer, and Yolanda Saldivor(sp??) Couldnt Stand Jones either, Saldivar was an easy inmate, but was in protected custody and very quiet.  I also had some that werent so "high" profile, but studies had been done on them about munchhausen syndrome, one killed her 15 mth old baby, after the third try. She was very young, and IMO border line +++++++...I cant rememeber her name, I think if you type in Maunchhausen Syndrome and Texas her names will come up in some articles.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cw618 on November 27, 2009, 07:46:18 PM
some photos of A.B.
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2009/11/23/crimesider/photoessay5747894.shtml?tag=page

this photo is from the slideshow, one hand looks the same to me
couldve been freinds messing around, or it is A.B. hand with knife



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on November 27, 2009, 08:08:44 PM
some photos of A.B.
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2009/11/23/crimesider/photoessay5747894.shtml?tag=page

this photo is from the slideshow, one hand looks the same to me
couldve been freinds messing around, or it is A.B. hand with knife


I know the source of this photograph and that is Alyssa'a hand with the knife. It was taken this year (actually just a few months back).


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: joesamas mama on November 27, 2009, 08:46:48 PM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers
Northern, thanks for this article. I remember the day Adrienne was found and how long it took for Diane Zamora to tell what happened to her friends at the Naval Academy. If it hadn't have been for her telling her dark secret, Adrienne would never have found justice. I watched the full trial and all the BS about the reason DZ did it, Dad left mom, fear of losing the bf, blah, blah blah. She was a spiteful, vindictive person and I am glad she was sentenced to Life. The worse part of the trial was the victim's impact statement given by Adrienne's little brother. I broke down watching that.  ::MonkeyWaa::


 I worked int the prison where Zamora was housed(until about three yrs ago) and she is still and ugly B word.... She moved onto another unit, though.. was a happy day for us.
Wow Txflame, I despise her with every sense of my being. She was so smug, arrogant and put on the airs of being so tiny and couldn't hurt a fly. I hope she is getting treated very harshly in prison (by prisoners, not the guards).

agreed!
she thought that she would get off cause of being cute and little....jmo


 From what I could tell, she wasnt well liked in prison, and still acts like she is "special". We had several high profilers.. Geneine Jones..the baby killer, and Yolanda Saldivor(sp??) Couldnt Stand Jones either, Saldivar was an easy inmate, but was in protected custody and very quiet.  I also had some that werent so "high" profile, but studies had been done on them about munchhausen syndrome, one killed her 15 mth old baby, after the third try. She was very young, and IMO border line +++++++...I cant rememeber her name, I think if you type in Maunchhausen Syndrome and Texas her names will come up in some articles.
Txflame, thanks for all the information about Texas inmates. I thought Genine Jones went to the nut house. Good to know she went to prison. I can imagine Saldivar was protected, she would have been sooner than dead in general population IMO. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: Txsflame on November 28, 2009, 11:38:46 AM
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks

The case of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who last week was charged as an adult with the brutal and premediated murder of a 9-year-old neighboring girl, has made national headlines. (Watch a report about Alyssa Bustamante.) The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are 8 more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)
One summer morning, 16-year-old Pauline Parker and her best friend Juliet Hulme, 15, lured Parker’s mother into a wooded park in Christchurch, New Zealand, then bashed the woman in the head with a half-a-brick stuffed into an stocking. The girls claimed their victim had fallen and hit her head, but their story disintegrated after the murder weapon was found. Following a “sensationalist” trial in which the girls were alleged to be lovers, both were sentenced to five years in prison. The story inspired the 1994 film, “Heavenly Creatures,” starring Kate Winslet. Today, Hulme is a successful crime novelist who writes under the name Anne Perry.

Mary Bell (1968)
At only 11 years old, Mary Bell strangled two local boys—aged 3 and 4—in her hometown of Newcastle, England. After killing the second child, she carved the letter "M" into his body with a razor. Her stated motive was the "pleasure and excitement" of killing (though Bell said later that, as the child of a prostitute, she had been sexually abused from a young age). She was released from prison in 1980 and today lives under a new identity.

Brenda Spencer (1979)
"I just don't like Mondays," 16-year old Brenda Spencer notoriously replied when asked why she attacked an elementary school near her San Diego home. Shooting sniper-style with a semi-automatic rifle her father had given her for Christmas, she wounded eight children and a police officer and killed two adults. Her stated dislike of Mondays inspired a hit song penned by Bob Geldof for his band, The Boomtown Rats.

Diana Zamora (1995)
As a first-year student at the prestigious Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD, Diana Zamora was arrested for killing  16-year old Adrienne Jones, a romantic rival, during her senior year of highschool. With help from her then-boyfriend, Zamora had lured Jones into a car and brutally attacked her with a metal weight to "appease" Zomora's jealousy. Zamora is now serving a life sentence.

Wendy Gardner (1994)
When she was 13, Wendy Gardner and her 15-year old boyfriend plotted to murder Gardner’s grandmother by strangling her with a yo-yo string. After perpetrating the unlikely crime, the couple celebrated with "a three-day orgy of sex and junk food." Both were later convicted for the murder, and Gardner — who lived in Ulster county, NY, at the time of the crime — received a sentence of seven years to life.

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)
A Eustice, Florida couple were the unlucky victims of teen vampire enthusiasts. Chastity Keesee, 17, and Dana Cooper, 20 — led by their “Vampire Clan” cult “sire,” 17-year-old Rod Ferrell — participated in the murder of the couple, the parents of another cult devotee’s parents. In keeping with the vampire cult's rituals (which also required members to drink each other's blood), the victims were  beaten to death with a crowbar. Ferrell was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later commuted to life without parole). Keesee and Cooper were both found guilty of third-degree murder.

“Collie Killers” (2006)
Australians was shocked by the case of two 16-year-old girls who decided they “felt like” brutally murdering one of their friends by stuffing her mouth with a chemical-soaked cloth and strangling her with a wire in the remote coal-mining town of Collie, Western Australia. While testifying, the girls — whose names have never been publicly released — recalled that their struggling victim called them "freaks" as she died, but neither expressed remorse. In 2007, both girls were sentenced to life in prison.


http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers
Northern, thanks for this article. I remember the day Adrienne was found and how long it took for Diane Zamora to tell what happened to her friends at the Naval Academy. If it hadn't have been for her telling her dark secret, Adrienne would never have found justice. I watched the full trial and all the BS about the reason DZ did it, Dad left mom, fear of losing the bf, blah, blah blah. She was a spiteful, vindictive person and I am glad she was sentenced to Life. The worse part of the trial was the victim's impact statement given by Adrienne's little brother. I broke down watching that.  ::MonkeyWaa::


 I worked int the prison where Zamora was housed(until about three yrs ago) and she is still and ugly B word.... She moved onto another unit, though.. was a happy day for us.
Wow Txflame, I despise her with every sense of my being. She was so smug, arrogant and put on the airs of being so tiny and couldn't hurt a fly. I hope she is getting treated very harshly in prison (by prisoners, not the guards).

agreed!
she thought that she would get off cause of being cute and little....jmo


 From what I could tell, she wasnt well liked in prison, and still acts like she is "special". We had several high profilers.. Geneine Jones..the baby killer, and Yolanda Saldivor(sp??) Couldnt Stand Jones either, Saldivar was an easy inmate, but was in protected custody and very quiet.  I also had some that werent so "high" profile, but studies had been done on them about munchhausen syndrome, one killed her 15 mth old baby, after the third try. She was very young, and IMO border line +++++++...I cant rememeber her name, I think if you type in Maunchhausen Syndrome and Texas her names will come up in some articles.
Txflame, thanks for all the information about Texas inmates. I thought Genine Jones went to the nut house. Good to know she went to prison. I can imagine Saldivar was protected, she would have been sooner than dead in general population IMO. 



 Not sure how ture it was, but the other inmates cliamed GJones was trying to claim Maunchenhausen also. She was not liked or trusted either. I had one inmate that had worked with her in the laundrey dept, claim she would start fires so she could "save" everyone, and put the fires out. As luck (for her victims) would have it GJones was sickly(and luck for those of us who had to tkae care of her) She moved on from the unit I was on also. They tend to do that with High profiles anyway..move them around, but last I heard GJones was in medical unit, but NOT for being insane.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 29, 2009, 09:37:12 AM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/143023/Girl-15-could-be-executed-for-murder
 HOME > NEWS / SHOWBIZ > WORLD NEWS > Girl, 15, could be executed for murder
WORLD NEWS
GIRL, 15, COULD BE EXECUTED FOR MURDER


Sunday November 29,2009
By Mike Parker

A GIRL of 15 could end up on Death Row facing execution by lethal injection after a US judge ruled she must be tried for murder as an adult.

In a case that has shocked Amer-ica Alyssa Bustamante is accused of strangling nine-year-old neighbour Elizabeth Olten then slashing her throat after bragging on YouTube that she enjoyed “killing people”.

A photo on the website shows her in black, Goth-style make-up pointing a finger, gun-style, to her head. Police in Jefferson City, Missouri, say she dug two graves five days before the murder then told them: “If you want to find her, start digging.” Experts say she is unlikely to be executed but could spend the rest of her life in prison if convicted.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: SuzieQ on November 29, 2009, 01:46:35 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/143023/Girl-15-could-be-executed-for-murder
 HOME > NEWS / SHOWBIZ > WORLD NEWS > Girl, 15, could be executed for murder
WORLD NEWS
GIRL, 15, COULD BE EXECUTED FOR MURDER


Sunday November 29,2009
By Mike Parker

A GIRL of 15 could end up on Death Row facing execution by lethal injection after a US judge ruled she must be tried for murder as an adult.

In a case that has shocked Amer-ica Alyssa Bustamante is accused of strangling nine-year-old neighbour Elizabeth Olten then slashing her throat after bragging on YouTube that she enjoyed “killing people”.

A photo on the website shows her in black, Goth-style make-up pointing a finger, gun-style, to her head. Police in Jefferson City, Missouri, say she dug two graves five days before the murder then told them: “If you want to find her, start digging.” Experts say she is unlikely to be executed but could spend the rest of her life in prison if convicted.



The UK likes to portray the US as living in the dark ages when it comes to the death penalty.

Majority Opinion
By a vote of 5-4, the U.S. Supreme Court on March 1, 2005 held that the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments forbid the execution of offenders who were under the age of 18 when their crimes were committed. snipped

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/u-s-supreme-court-roper-v-simmons-no-03-633



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: yorkiemom on November 30, 2009, 08:32:39 PM
Does anyone know for sure where Alyssa is now?  If she has been transferred to state hospital when will the 96 hours be up.  Thanks I've been trying to catch up but was gone for the holidays.
Thanks for all the information.  Hope everyone had a great holiday.  ::MonkeyFootball::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: ISpy on December 01, 2009, 01:54:07 AM
Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO

Not a usual poster here, but a reader.  Stopping by to add my two cents.  While I agree Alyssa's friend may be cashing in her 15 minutes of fame, who knows?  It may also be that she's trying to "explain" why she didn't really take Alyssa's talk seriously.  She's probably still in shock somewhat that she actually was friends with a murderer (shocking at any age much less a teen).  I can tell you from personal experience with an abusive sibling, the above bolded remark isn't necessarily so.  My abuser was "careful" where to leave the bruises/where to twist.  They looked like "play marks" and my accusations were met with "sibling rivalry" or "You must have done something to provoke it.".  The abuse always occurred when we were left unsupervised (my abuser was slightly older, one parent worked nights, and the other worked days but got home later than we did).  After school was the most dangerous time from 3:30-4:30.  As things got progressively more violent (being held face down in the snow for an extended period of time, among other things), I realized it was up to me to protect myself.  My parents refused (?) to believe me- their child would never do anything like that, I must be exaggerating.  So, I began locking myself in the only room with working lock and practiced climbing out of the room's only window (just in case I ever needed to quickly in an emergency).  I also did a secret sweep of my abuser's room (careful to put back everything exactly right) because I was sure there was some drug abuse escalating the violence (there was-doesn't help when one's parent is heading the anti-drug task force and their children do no wrong).  The night I made a conscious decision and grabbed the largest butcher knife we owned on my way to the bathroom was a turning point.  I clearly remember rationally deciding that night that if my abuser was able to break down the door, I would use that knife...it was either that or be killed.  Thank God, my parent arrived home before it got to that point.  After that night, I made a concerted effort to never be home alone with my abuser again.  If that meant staying after school every day, so be it.   If that meant going with a parent to night classes and sitting in the lounge for hours, so be it.  If that meant getting an early ride to school with someone, so be it.  Anywhere was better (and safer) than home.  It's highly probable Alyssa was beating up younger siblings and coercing them into doing things they didn't want to do.  I would almost lay money that second grave was for her younger sister, Elizabeth's friend.  IMO, the only reason Alyssa didn't use it was because that would draw the police to her doorstep pretty quickly.

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?); and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.  This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.

All, MOO.  Time to scoot, but I just wanted to clarify the sibling abuse thing.  Have a good evening/morning and take good care.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten 9 yrs. old, (body found) #3
Post by: theboyzmom on December 01, 2009, 06:57:12 AM
Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO

Not a usual poster here, but a reader.  Stopping by to add my two cents.  While I agree Alyssa's friend may be cashing in her 15 minutes of fame, who knows?  It may also be that she's trying to "explain" why she didn't really take Alyssa's talk seriously.  She's probably still in shock somewhat that she actually was friends with a murderer (shocking at any age much less a teen).  I can tell you from personal experience with an abusive sibling, the above bolded remark isn't necessarily so.  My abuser was "careful" where to leave the bruises/where to twist.  They looked like "play marks" and my accusations were met with "sibling rivalry" or "You must have done something to provoke it.".  The abuse always occurred when we were left unsupervised (my abuser was slightly older, one parent worked nights, and the other worked days but got home later than we did).  After school was the most dangerous time from 3:30-4:30.  As things got progressively more violent (being held face down in the snow for an extended period of time, among other things), I realized it was up to me to protect myself.  My parents refused (?) to believe me- their child would never do anything like that, I must be exaggerating.  So, I began locking myself in the only room with working lock and practiced climbing out of the room's only window (just in case I ever needed to quickly in an emergency).  I also did a secret sweep of my abuser's room (careful to put back everything exactly right) because I was sure there was some drug abuse escalating the violence (there was-doesn't help when one's parent is heading the anti-drug task force and their children do no wrong).  The night I made a conscious decision and grabbed the largest butcher knife we owned on my way to the bathroom was a turning point.  I clearly remember rationally deciding that night that if my abuser was able to break down the door, I would use that knife...it was either that or be killed.  Thank God, my parent arrived home before it got to that point.  After that night, I made a concerted effort to never be home alone with my abuser again.  If that meant staying after school every day, so be it.   If that meant going with a parent to night classes and sitting in the lounge for hours, so be it.  If that meant getting an early ride to school with someone, so be it.  Anywhere was better (and safer) than home.  It's highly probable Alyssa was beating up younger siblings and coercing them into doing things they didn't want to do.  I would almost lay money that second grave was for her younger sister, Elizabeth's friend.  IMO, the only reason Alyssa didn't use it was because that would draw the police to her doorstep pretty quickly.

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?); and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.  This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.

All, MOO.  Time to scoot, but I just wanted to clarify the sibling abuse thing.  Have a good evening/morning and take good care.

I am so sorry Ispy. That was a horrible situation but a wonderful post explaining it. I also agree that the rage defense will not fly. She was/is just an evil person hiding among the normal people.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Fanny Mae on December 01, 2009, 11:29:47 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=NEWS

Brother in custody in death of boy, 10

RISING SUN, IND. – Many people in this Ohio River town of 2,500 woke Monday morning to the news that the body of a 10-year-old boy had been found the night before in a wooded area near a city park.



Durhonda Drew heard a report on the radio and talked at breakfast to her twins, students in third grade at Ohio County Elementary/Middle School, where the dead youth, Conner Conley, was in the fifth grade.

By noontime, even more shocking, word had spread around town – from the cigarette smoke-choked Snack Shack on Main Street to the halls of Rising Sun High School – that Conner’s 17-year-old brother had been arrested and was being held at the Dearborn County Juvenile Center in Lawrenceburg.

Jeremy Monk, the boys’ uncle who often watched them, said the 17-year-old was in custody and that his sister, the boys’ mother, had been with police all day..........


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 01, 2009, 12:17:26 PM
ISpy wrote:
"Anywhere was better (and safer) than home." 

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/hug.gif)   Oh ISpy... I'm so sorry for this and all that you have endured.  What we survive makes us stronger, am thinking that's about our only consolation. 

One of my abusers was an older adoptive sibling, who was the fav of my 'mommie dearest', and in charge of me in her absence as well.  I remember the bathroom with the locked door very well.  My escape often was getting busy with babysitting in the church nursery during meetings.  Sad when as a child, the only safe place is anywhere other than home. 

Parents NEED to listen to their children, no matter if they have a "perfect child" or a "favorite" who just couldn't possibly do such things.  I got news for them!!!     ::MonkeyMad::

We don't know if that's what went on in Alyssa's home, but am thinking it very well could have.  Seems to me if anyone knows what she may be capable of, it's her younger siblings.  Hope LE is has been having lil chats with them.  Sigh. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cw618 on December 01, 2009, 07:59:42 PM
snipped from ispy post
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6392.msg1026086#msg1026086

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause
pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?);
 and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.
 This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.


 that two grave thing has bothered me since i read it, wonder if there is a mention,
of what/who it was for in the papers that lead to her arrest. prob wont know till trial
hmmm,could that be why there is no bail, or do juvees get bail


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 01, 2009, 10:30:29 PM
snipped from ispy post
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6392.msg1026086#msg1026086

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause
pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?);
 and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.
 This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.


 that two grave thing has bothered me since i read it, wonder if there is a mention,
of what/who it was for in the papers that lead to her arrest. prob wont know till trial
hmmm,could that be why there is no bail, or do juvees get bail

I agree CW! 

Don't remember it mentioned in the media what actually was written that led to her arrest, just that they found the writing.  Could have been part of her confession, dunno.  And with the way they've been so very tight-lipped about everything, don't even know if we'll ever find out.  As to the bail, some states allow that for juvees, not sure if allowed in all.  And yet, seems that her attorney is/was trying for her to be placed in the hospital on suicide watch, whatever.  Am hoping that the judge wouldn't consider bail for her at all.  No reason to give her a 2nd chance to fill in the second grave, even if it is for herself.  IMO.   

As you've said, the digging of two graves several days beforehand and all the thought that went into it, suggests there was a good deal of pre-planning.  Along with what she said to friends etc.  Seems all of that would cancel out any idea of a 'prozac defense'.  I guess there are cases where that might actually be true, altho I'd still be leery, seems that defense is over-used these days.  Sure doesn't seem to me that she snapped and went off on whoever was nearby.  Then thinking 'oh hey, those graves I dug the other day will sure come in handy now!'   ::MonkeyNoNo::  Am guessing her attorney may still try it tho. 

Since the digging of two graves several days beforehand just smacks of pre-meditation, does the prosecution have to prove intent?  Or is pre-meditation and intent the same thing?  I mean, could her defense come back with something like .. she dug those graves as part of her lil fantasy, had nothing to do with reality.  How does an attorney prove intent anyway?   ::MonkeyConfused::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: ISpy on December 02, 2009, 01:47:34 AM
Thanks, theboyzmom and Wyks!  It's not something I really choose to discuss, but in this case, I felt it relevant.  Wyks, I'm sorry you had to go through that.  ::MonkeyNoNo::  I hope LE have been interviewing Alyssa's siblings individually and without the grandparents present.  I know that sounds terrible, but sometimes parents/guardians are in denial or too embarrassed to admit they cannot control the child.  ITA, parents need to be paying attention.  A large percentage of my friends were molested and their parents didn't know the signs or ignored them to protect themselves.  I believe that warning, nagging feeling some people call intuition is actually the Holy Spirit trying to warn you, "Pay attention!  Something's wrong here.".

Obviously, in this case, Alyssa herself was broadcasting warnings left and right.  You can bet for the videos she made and the pics she took, there was lots more she hid.  As she became more confident of being unchallenged (and therefore unstoppable), she became more brazen.  Alyssa's actions were willful and defiant...they were choices she clearly made each step of the way.  Many people come from broken homes and yet, they don't go around cutting themselves and murdering their neighbors' child.  IMO, minor killers-without-cause cannot be rehabilitated (except an act of God).  They have already hardened their hearts and proven they have zero value for human life.  It's unlikely they'll develop a profound new respect for human life.  They've crossed the proverbial line in the sand that divides us into human and inhuman.  They've burned the proverbial bridge that links human beings together in a society by empathy, compassion, consideration, kindness, respect, and self-control.

Done preaching to the choir here.  LOL!  Have a good evening/morning, everyone!  Take good care!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 12:13:49 PM
Thank you, ISpy!   ::MonkeyAngel:: 

And good post!  I totally agree.  Am not sure how it got to this point with Alyssa, but am quite sure she didn't get this way overnight.  It sure could have happened in that step by step way you've mentioned.  And very definitely, her attitudes/actions were choices that she made. 

Even with just what we've learned about her recent past etc, IMO a 'prozac defense' doesn't fit.  IMO, she didn't just snap.  As you've said, there were warning signs left and right.  Am thinking that it's quite possible no one knew what to do with such an out of control teen, and were hoping for the best, even if dreading the worst. 

Unfortunately in this day and age, can't lock someone like that up until they actually DO something awful to someone else.  Cuz cutting oneself rarely warrants a stay in a psych hospital for much longer than several days, if that. 

It's a sad reality of today.  Funding.... and budget cuts all around, especially in the mental health field.  Seems only those who are the worst of the worst gets locked up for a lengthy time.  And the rest seem to be allowed to fall thru the cracks, because of .... funding.  And in the meantime, the innocents in our world are at high risk.  IMO



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: chrissy07 on December 03, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 12:30:11 PM
Guess I should add...

Since we cannot lock up out of control teens based on what we fear they 'might do' to themselves or others, we sure can keep a close watch on what they seem to be thinking/feeling, and what they are doing/saying, etc. 

If anything, IMO, Alyssa needed someone who knew exactly where she was at all times and what she was up to.  If anyone had been concerned as to her being a danger to herself or others, never should she have been allowed to be alone with her siblings, a neighbor child or anyone else. 

I don't know what her gpa's and family, therapist, etc did.  It just appears to me, as an outside ******* without all the details, that Alyssa had plenty of unsupervised time.  And that, given the warning signs that she seems to have been showing for quite some time, ought to at the very least, bring a charge of negligence against someone who ought to have been paying attention.  Again, IMO. 

 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 12:31:34 PM
 ::MonkeyEek::  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 12:38:29 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana1.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana2.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_glasses.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_monkey.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_jumping.gif)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 12:43:06 PM
::MonkeyEek::  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



 ::MonkeyShocked::  WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: chrissy07 on December 03, 2009, 12:48:02 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana1.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana2.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_glasses.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_monkey.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_jumping.gif)



Your quite welcome, I was pretty excited when I found it too!  LOL  ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on December 03, 2009, 12:49:30 PM
::MonkeyEek::  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



 ::MonkeyShocked::  WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 


Yes.    ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 12:57:42 PM
::MonkeyEek::  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



 ::MonkeyShocked::  WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 


Yes.    ::MonkeyJnBox::

Oh good.. cuz my only choice left is... 'nosy old broad'.  <giggles>   ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:03:17 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana1.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana2.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_glasses.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_monkey.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_jumping.gif)



Your quite welcome, I was pretty excited when I found it too!  LOL  ::DancingSantaMonkey1::

We're lucky to have such an alert and watchful monkey as you!  ::MonkeyKiss::  I had no clue they were gonna release documents!   Away with me to read em!   



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:07:58 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   ::DancingSantaMonkey1::


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana1.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_banana2.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_glasses.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_dance_monkey.gif)  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/party_jumping.gif)



Your quite welcome, I was pretty excited when I found it too!  LOL  ::DancingSantaMonkey1::

Thank you!   ::MonkeySlide::     ::MonkeySlide::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bananas on December 03, 2009, 01:12:41 PM
::MonkeyEek::  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



 ::MonkeyShocked::  WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 



Boy, I am one dumb monkey.... can't figure out what the word is that must be filtered out.  LOL LOL LOL  ::hohohosanta::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:18:14 PM
LOL Bananas!  And the thing is, it's not a bad word!  Just so ya know.  I'm trying to be a good monkey for Santa, honest.  lol   hehe   ::MonkeyAngel::  It's the 'o' word for someone who stands by and watches, sees, what is going on. 



 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on December 03, 2009, 01:21:04 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


NO!  I have too much work to do today to get behind.!   Oh well, looks like I will be staying over tonight...LOL


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:22:23 PM
Why has the great media in Jefferson NOT reported that the next hearing has been  moved from Dec 7 to Dec 8th? 

11-30-09   Hearing from December 7, 2009 has been continued to December 8, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. 

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:23:45 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


NO!  I have too much work to do today to get behind.!   Oh well, looks like I will be staying over tonight...LOL

There is not a lot to read .  Docs are 1-2 pages and just the standard filing stuff. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on December 03, 2009, 01:25:50 PM
::MonkeyEek::  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



 ::MonkeyShocked::  WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 


Yes.    ::MonkeyJnBox::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:26:08 PM
Ok, first thing up..

In the indictment document, there's a couple things answered that has been asked by some. 

There's no bail set for Alyssa. 

The following statements from the indictment document lead me to believe that there likely will be no chance for a 'prozac defense'.. or even an 'insanity defense':

<bolded by me>

"...the defendant after deliberation, knowingly caused the
death of (name redacted) strangling her, cutting her throat and stabbing her."

"...the defendant committed the foregoing felony of Murder in the First Degree by, with and through, the knowing use, assistance and aid of a dangerous instrument."


http://www.colecountycourts.com/documents%20for%20Alyssa%20Dailen%20Bustamante/Indictment.pdf (http://www.colecountycourts.com/documents%20for%20Alyssa%20Dailen%20Bustamante/Indictment.pdf)

Edit:  Correct typo per poster.  MB



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on December 03, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


NO!  I have too much work to do today to get behind.!   Oh well, looks like I will be staying over tonight...LOL

There is not a lot to read .  Docs are 1-2 pages and just the standard filing stuff. 

That didn't take long did it?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:27:19 PM
OMG I meant no bail set for Alyssa!!!   Mod please edit??  TIA


Done.  MB


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on December 03, 2009, 01:30:01 PM
dang it, I guess I am getting so used to these Casey Anthony dumps that I ACTUALLY thought there would be something new or interesting in these documents......ugghhh


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:33:09 PM
Bustamante hearing cancelled

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The status hearing for the murder suspect accused of killing Elizabeth Olten has been cancelled.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, had a status hearing scheduled to for Dec. 7. The hearing would follow –up to see if Bustamante had a lawyer.

Now, Bustamante will be re-arraigned, with counsel, on Dec. 8, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. At the arraignment hearing, Bustamante will be handed down the indictments again and would plead guilty or not guilty.

A judge entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of Bustamante, who was certified as an adult on Nov. 18, because she did not have a lawyer present.

Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in Olten’s murder.

Bustamante is charged in the strangulation and stabbing death of  Olten.

This type of proceeding normally lasts less than 5 minutes.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=385365


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:33:31 PM
dang it, I guess I am getting so used to these Casey Anthony dumps that I ACTUALLY thought there would be something new or interesting in these documents......ugghhh

Like her entire diary incl pics of.......   Me too, YourMom!!   ::MonkeyDevil:: 





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:35:49 PM
The Arrest Warrant has the Monster's height and weight

Height - 65 " (5'5")
Weight - 130lbs

Elizabeth was 5'2" and 108 lbs.

There was not a lot of difference in their sizes .  She was really determined to do this.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:37:35 PM
Bustamante hearing cancelled

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The status hearing for the murder suspect accused of killing Elizabeth Olten has been cancelled.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, had a status hearing scheduled to for Dec. 7. The hearing would follow –up to see if Bustamante had a lawyer.

Now, Bustamante will be re-arraigned, with counsel, on Dec. 8, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. At the arraignment hearing, Bustamante will be handed down the indictments again and would plead guilty or not guilty.

A judge entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of Bustamante, who was certified as an adult on Nov. 18, because she did not have a lawyer present.

Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in Olten’s murder.

Bustamante is charged in the strangulation and stabbing death of  Olten.

This type of proceeding normally lasts less than 5 minutes.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=385365

Thanks Northern Rose! 

Was just going to post and ask what a status hearing is.  So it's like a follow-up hearing to ensure that she has an attorney, and was cancelled since she has one? 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cookie on December 03, 2009, 01:37:39 PM
LOL Bananas!  And the thing is, it's not a bad word!  Just so ya know.  I'm trying to be a good monkey for Santa, honest.  lol   hehe   ::MonkeyAngel::  It's the 'o' word for someone who stands by and watches, sees, what is going on. 



 

ha ha! glad I am not the only one who doesn't know the word...still don't know what it is even with the 'o' ...what is the last and middle letter? now I am curious .....lol!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:38:38 PM
Our View: If M.D. took part as alleged, try her as adult

As Mitchell residents wonder whether a 15-year-old girl will be tried as an adult in connection with the murder of another local teen, the state of Missouri is in the midst of an eerily similar case.
In that state, it was determined last week that 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante will be tried as an adult for the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

As Mitchell residents wonder whether a 15-year-old girl will be tried as an adult in connection with the murder of another local teen, the state of Missouri is in the midst of an eerily similar case.

In that state, it was determined last week that 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante will be tried as an adult for the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante is accused of digging a grave in the woods and then spending a week plotting the murder. On Oct. 21, authorities say Bustamante strangled Olten without provocation, cut the girl’s throat and stabbed her. She also is accused of burying the younger girl’s body.

In South Dakota, high school student Jasmine Guevara was found dead last month in the trunk of a car in rural Mitchell. Her throat had been cut and she had been stabbed. The car had been set ablaze.

Charged with murder is Alexander Salgado, 20. In addition, a 15-year-old girl known only as M.D. has been arrested.

People have so many questions. What was M.D.’s role in the case? Will M.D. be tried as an adult? Should she be?

As The Daily Republic reported this week, the executive director of the South Dakota State’s Attorney Association said that teens involved in homicide cases often stand trial as adults.

According to state law, 16- and 17-yearolds can be tried as adults based on various factors, including whether the offense is committed in an aggressive, violent, premeditated or willful manner.

In the Guevara case, it appears that yes, the offense was committed in an aggressive, violent and premeditated manner. It also has been traumatic to the community.

Whether a child is tried in juvenile or adult court looms large in punishment. Children found guilty remain anonymous and are placed in juvenile facilities, for instance. Those found guilty in adult court face incarceration in prison. Their names are made public.

The catch in this case is that M.D. is 15. In South Dakota, children younger than 16 who face even the most serious of felonies begin their proceedings in juvenile court. It will be up to a prosecutor to take the steps necessary to move the case to adult court; a judge will make the final decision.

The death of Jasmine Guevara was wanton, violent and so terribly unnecessary. It was a grown-up crime and, if police reports are correct, was aggressive and thoroughly planned, thus showing premeditation.

Considering the facts of the case in that state, Missouri got it right when it determined Bustamante should be tried as an adult.

Here in South Dakota, M.D. is, of course, innocent until proven guilty. It’s important to issue such a reminder in the sad, angry and frustrating weeks after a tragic and suspicious death.

And she is, indeed, a child.

But if authorities truly believe M.D. had an active and vital role in the violent death of a local high school student, then M.D. should stand trial as an adult.

http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/event/article/id/39079/group/Opinion/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:44:13 PM
Bustamante hearing cancelled

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The status hearing for the murder suspect accused of killing Elizabeth Olten has been cancelled.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, had a status hearing scheduled to for Dec. 7. The hearing would follow –up to see if Bustamante had a lawyer.

Now, Bustamante will be re-arraigned, with counsel, on Dec. 8, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. At the arraignment hearing, Bustamante will be handed down the indictments again and would plead guilty or not guilty.

A judge entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of Bustamante, who was certified as an adult on Nov. 18, because she did not have a lawyer present.

Bustamante appeared briefly before a Cole County judge, just hours after she had been certified to stand trial as an adult in Olten’s murder.

Bustamante is charged in the strangulation and stabbing death of  Olten.

This type of proceeding normally lasts less than 5 minutes.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=385365

Thanks Northern Rose! 

Was just going to post and ask what a status hearing is.  So it's like a follow-up hearing to ensure that she has an attorney, and was cancelled since she has one? 



That is my guess.  And they scheduled the re-arraignment for the 8th now that she has a lawyer and can enter a plea with lawyer present. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:45:37 PM
It’s important to follow 8th amendment cases

When turning on the news, we hear of either homicide or manslaughter, and think little of it because murder has sadly become acceptable in the world today.

Murder, the intentional and malicious killing of one person by another, should be taken seriously by the criminal justice system in America.  Intentional or not, murderers should be tried with the utmost seriousness in order to adequately ensure the punishment fits the crime.

Within our system of criminal justice, we attempt to serve at least one of four purposes by punishing an offender.  These four goals of punishment are incapacitation, rehabilitation, deterrence and retribution.

In Jefferson City, Mo., 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante knowingly and purposefully murdered her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten, by strangling and cutting her throat for the reason of wanting to know what it felt like to kill another human being. In this case, Bustamante will be punished in order to fulfill deterrence, to be made an example of or to fulfill retribution because bad acts deserve severe punishment.

A Missouri Grand Jury indicted Bustamante on a charge of first degree premeditated murder for killing a young girl who detectives found did not provoke her murder. During this indictment, the judge determined that Bustamante would be tried as an adult, to the outrage of many. The opposition believes that Alyssa should be punished for her crime, but if found guilty as an adult, Alyssa could face nearly any charge, including life in prison.
The United States Supreme Court has previously heard cases about minors facing trial as adults, ruling in 2005 that it is cruel and unusual punishment to sentence a juvenile offender to death. The Court is also currently facing two cases (Graham v. Florida and Sullivan v. Florida) in order to discuss the latest controversy over the 8th Amendment, and whether or not it is reasonable to sentence juveniles to life in prison without any opportunity for parole.

These cases may or may not affect the decisions made in Bustamante’s case, but they are important cases to follow, considering they determine our fundamental rights of not receiving cruel and unusual punishment.

Although Bustamante had a rough childhood, attempting to commit suicide and being deeply affected by depression, Jefferson City did not house the correct facilities to help Bustamante rehabilitate and cope at such a young age.

Now the question remains, is it too late to rehabilitate her after committing murder, making anywhere from 25 years to life in prison an acceptable punishment?   

http://www.nwmissourinews.com/mobile/opinion/it-s-important-to-follow-8th-amendment-cases-1.950130


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:47:08 PM
The Arrest Warrant has the Monster's height and weight

Height - 65 " (5'5")
Weight - 130lbs

Elizabeth was 5'2" and 108 lbs.

There was not a lot of difference in their sizes .  She was really determined to do this.

Dang!!  Determined is right!  Am even more convinced that she had help. 

Also hoping that the rumor we've read about ends up being true, that there may have been a 'deer tape', which could have caught some evidence of another person present. 

Which could help to explain other things that have been rumored, which may have happened as well.  Like who stayed with Elizabeth in the woods, *IF* someone/Alyssa did indeed walk her lil sis back thru the woods to the house, then beat it back to Elizabeth. 
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:52:00 PM
GIRL, 15, COULD BE EXECUTED FOR MURDER

A GIRL of 15 could end up on Death Row facing execution by lethal injection after a US judge ruled she must be tried for murder as an adult.


In a case that has shocked Amer-ica Alyssa Bustamante is accused of strangling nine-year-old neighbour Elizabeth Olten then slashing her throat after bragging on YouTube that she enjoyed “killing people”.

A photo on the website shows her in black, Goth-style make-up pointing a finger, gun-style, to her head. Police in Jefferson City, Missouri, say she dug two graves five days before the murder then told them: “If you want to find her, start digging.”

Experts say she is unlikely to be executed but could spend the rest of her life in prison if convicted.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/143023/Girl-15-could-be-executed-for-murder


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 01:54:04 PM
LOL Bananas!  And the thing is, it's not a bad word!  Just so ya know.  I'm trying to be a good monkey for Santa, honest.  lol   hehe   ::MonkeyAngel::  It's the 'o' word for someone who stands by and watches, sees, what is going on.  


ha ha! glad I am not the only one who doesn't know the word...still don't know what it is even with the 'o' ...what is the last and middle letter? now I am curious .....lol!


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/lmao.gif)    I'd be doing the same!  
-
Edit- please don't override filter.  MB

Hope that's ok to say and I don't get  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/banned.gif)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bananas on December 03, 2009, 01:55:59 PM
LOL Bananas!  And the thing is, it's not a bad word!  Just so ya know.  I'm trying to be a good monkey for Santa, honest.  lol   hehe   ::MonkeyAngel::  It's the 'o' word for someone who stands by and watches, sees, what is going on. 



 

Thanks Wyks... I thought of that word first and dismissed it.... why in the world is that word taboo?  LOL


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 01:57:39 PM
LOL Bananas!  And the thing is, it's not a bad word!  Just so ya know.  I'm trying to be a good monkey for Santa, honest.  lol   hehe   ::MonkeyAngel::  It's the 'o' word for someone who stands by and watches, sees, what is going on. 


ha ha! glad I am not the only one who doesn't know the word...still don't know what it is even with the 'o' ...what is the last and middle letter? now I am curious .....lol!


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/lmao.gif)    I'd be doing the same! 

Starts with 'ob'... middle letters 'er' .. ends in 'er' ..  only two letters left in between. 

Hope that's ok to say and I don't get  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/banned.gif)



http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/bystander


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 02:04:19 PM
Bustamante Case Hearing has been Postponed

COLE COUNTY- The hearing for Alyssa Bustamante that was originally scheduled for December 7th has been canceled.

The defendant will be re-arraigned with counsel on December 8, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. This type of proceeding normally lasts less than 5 minutes. Bustamante, 15, was charged with first degree murder in the death of Elizabeth Olten.

Published: Thursday, December 3, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Last Updated: Thursday, December 3, 2009 at 11:42 AM

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/558372fc-80ce-0971-0166-d0a2d22fff1c


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: joesamas mama on December 03, 2009, 02:05:58 PM
That word that begins with an O and ends in R, was I believe the name of a monkey at one time and this person was banned and anytime you type that name it puts those ******'s instead of the word.

This was told to me a long time ago because I had the same question. Not sure I have the story exactly right, but it is something along the lines of someone who was banned. JMO JSM


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 02:17:24 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

   



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on December 03, 2009, 02:18:55 PM
That word that begins with an O and ends in R, was I believe the name of a monkey at one time and this person was banned and anytime you type that name it puts those ******'s instead of the word.

This was told to me a long time ago because I had the same question. Not sure I have the story exactly right, but it is something along the lines of someone who was banned. JMO JSM

test   - is it *******?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 02:18:58 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

Jan 28, 1994

   




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on December 03, 2009, 02:20:03 PM
That word that begins with an O and ends in R, was I believe the name of a monkey at one time and this person was banned and anytime you type that name it puts those ******'s instead of the word.

This was told to me a long time ago because I had the same question. Not sure I have the story exactly right, but it is something along the lines of someone who was banned. JMO JSM

test   - is it *******?

ha ha, what a funny word to bleep out.  I wonder if we can get more details as to why that is such a bad thing, what did the poster that was banned do that would make an entire website make a single word obsolete? 


Edit to add-
YourMom: 

Suffice to say, the filtered word was the nickname of  a moderator at Scared Monkeys and was banned by Klaasend.  I don't think any more details are necessary and please remember you are posting OT in a missing person's thread.  If you have further questions, please send Klaasend an email at smklaas@hotmail.com.   MuffyBee


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 02:20:11 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


NO!  I have too much work to do today to get behind.!   Oh well, looks like I will be staying over tonight...LOL

Not unless you read really reallllllllllllllllllly slowly.   ::MonkeyTongue::

But still am glad to have gotten what we did. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 02:22:05 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

Jan 28, 1994

   



Wyks so sorry but I got in your box.  While I was there I left fresh cut flowers, fresh out of the oven bread, and some country beef vegetable soup.  I also dusted and changed the cat litter box for you. 

Alyssa's DOB is Jan 28, 1994


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 02:27:20 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

Jan 28, 1994

   



Wyks so sorry but I got in your box.  While I was there I left fresh cut flowers, fresh out of the oven bread, and some country beef vegetable soup.  I also dusted and changed the cat litter box for you. 

Alyssa's DOB is Jan 28, 1994

Awesome!  That's so sweet of you.  And you're welcome to get in my box anytime then!  Thanks so much!   ::MonkeyHaHa::   Guess I may as well run out and get a cat now.  lol



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 02:31:09 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

Jan 28, 1994

   



Wyks so sorry but I got in your box.  While I was there I left fresh cut flowers, fresh out of the oven bread, and some country beef vegetable soup.  I also dusted and changed the cat litter box for you. 

Alyssa's DOB is Jan 28, 1994

Awesome!  That's so sweet of you.  And you're welcome to get in my box anytime then!  Thanks so much!   ::MonkeyHaHa::   Guess I may as well run out and get a cat now.  lol


Was so thrilled at having my chores done, I forgot to say thanks for giving her DOB.   ::MonkeyKiss::

Sure seems to me being THAT close to 16 yrs old, along with being charged with an adult crime, *ought to* allow the DP being put on the table. 

Am guessing I might feel differently if I were a loved one of the accused tho.  Dunno. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 02:31:10 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

Jan 28, 1994

   



Wyks so sorry but I got in your box.  While I was there I left fresh cut flowers, fresh out of the oven bread, and some country beef vegetable soup.  I also dusted and changed the cat litter box for you. 

Alyssa's DOB is Jan 28, 1994

Awesome!  That's so sweet of you.  And you're welcome to get in my box anytime then!  Thanks so much!   ::MonkeyHaHa::   Guess I may as well run out and get a cat now.  lol



You are now ready when a cat decides to adopt you  ::HelloKitty::

 ::hohohosanta::    ::snowmanlaugh::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 02:36:55 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

Jan 28, 1994

   



Wyks so sorry but I got in your box.  While I was there I left fresh cut flowers, fresh out of the oven bread, and some country beef vegetable soup.  I also dusted and changed the cat litter box for you. 

Alyssa's DOB is Jan 28, 1994

Awesome!  That's so sweet of you.  And you're welcome to get in my box anytime then!  Thanks so much!   ::MonkeyHaHa::   Guess I may as well run out and get a cat now.  lol


Was so thrilled at having my chores done, I forgot to say thanks for giving her DOB.   ::MonkeyKiss::

Sure seems to me being THAT close to 16 yrs old, along with being charged with an adult crime, *ought to* allow the DP being put on the table. 

Am guessing I might feel differently if I were a loved one of the accused tho.  Dunno. 


I am pretty sure the DP is out of the equation .  Being this close to 16 was a factor in having her tried as an adult rather than being in a treatment centre till she turned 21 then letting her out.  JMO


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on December 03, 2009, 02:37:53 PM
That word that begins with an O and ends in R, was I believe the name of a monkey at one time and this person was banned and anytime you type that name it puts those ******'s instead of the word.

This was told to me a long time ago because I had the same question. Not sure I have the story exactly right, but it is something along the lines of someone who was banned. JMO JSM

test   - is it *******?

ha ha, what a funny word to bleep out.  I wonder if we can get more details as to why that is such a bad thing, what did the poster that was banned do that would make an entire website make a single word obsolete? 

Suffice to say, the filtered word was the nickname of  a moderator at Scared Monkeys and was banned by Klaasend.  I don't think any more details are necessary and please remember you are posting OT in a missing person's thread.  If you have further questions, please send Klaasend an email at smklaas@hotmail.com.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 02:42:13 PM
That word that begins with an O and ends in R, was I believe the name of a monkey at one time and this person was banned and anytime you type that name it puts those ******'s instead of the word.

This was told to me a long time ago because I had the same question. Not sure I have the story exactly right, but it is something along the lines of someone who was banned. JMO JSM

test   - is it *******?

ha ha, what a funny word to bleep out.  I wonder if we can get more details as to why that is such a bad thing, what did the poster that was banned do that would make an entire website make a single word obsolete? 

Thanks JSM!!   ::MonkeyKiss::  So that helps to explain why it bleeped out such a word, when I can think of a ton worse the filter allows thru. 

Too funny, YourMom.. Have you and I formed/joined the 'runs with scissors' club?      ::MonkeyDevil::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 02:46:00 PM

You are now ready when a cat decides to adopt you  ::HelloKitty::

 ::hohohosanta::    ::snowmanlaugh::

 ::DancingSantaMonkey1::

By far the best way!  And typically what happens, lol !!   ::HelloKitty::

Altho, he ------>  (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/dachshund.gif)  might have something to say about that.  hehe 





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 02:48:47 PM

Suffice to say, the filtered word was the nickname of  a moderator at Scared Monkeys and was banned by Klaasend.  I don't think any more details are necessary and please remember you are posting OT in a missing person's thread.  If you have further questions, please send Klaasend an email at smklaas@hotmail.com.   

Ahhhhhhh.  ohhhhhhhh.  yikes!!   ::MonkeyEek::  Thanks for explaining that, Muffy. 

We'll be good now.   ::MonkeyAngel::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 03:02:25 PM

Was so thrilled at having my chores done, I forgot to say thanks for giving her DOB.   ::MonkeyKiss::

Sure seems to me being THAT close to 16 yrs old, along with being charged with an adult crime, *ought to* allow the DP being put on the table. 

Am guessing I might feel differently if I were a loved one of the accused tho.  Dunno. 


I am pretty sure the DP is out of the equation .  Being this close to 16 was a factor in having her tried as an adult rather than being in a treatment centre till she turned 21 then letting her out.  JMO

I see...  Thank goodness for that then, sure makes sense.  Thanks Northern Rose! 

Back in the day when I was brand-new to studying crime cases, (altho it seems I learn something new with every case), I 'used to be' fully against the DP.  For anyone, no matter what.  Simply because there could be mistakes made in DNA and evidence, etc. 

But the more I've learned, the more I've read, the further away from that belief I've come.  Still want LE to carefully make the decision on the DP, when it's on the table, etc.  Yet have seen cases where it seems that it's fully deserved. 

Now for me, it's more about what I see happening with many who seems to have deserved the DP, but who got a 'life sentence' or committed to an institution, instead.  And because of funding, one or more appeals, whatever the reason/s might be, have been turned loose on society.  Only to recommit further crimes.  And folks scratch their heads.. how could this have happened, etc. 

THAT is what I don't want to see happen in this case, down the road, when/if the time comes that Alyssa, and others like her, are allowed to jostle elbows with society again. 

Scary thought. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: klaasend on December 03, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
We used to have a member/moderator by the name of *******.  That person had a meltdown in the forum and was banned.

He threatened to cause trouble if his name is mentioned in the forum.  He really can't do anything but it was just easier to filter out his name.  I know it seems silly but please don't override the filter, TIA


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on December 03, 2009, 03:34:36 PM
We used to have a member/moderator by the name of *******.  That person had a meltdown in the forum and was banned.

He threatened to cause trouble if his name is mentioned in the forum.  He really can't do anything but it was just easier to filter out his name.  I know it seems silly but please don't override the filter, TIA


I'm sorry everyone.  Forgive me?  ::MonkeyAngel::   he he he


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on December 03, 2009, 03:38:22 PM
We used to have a member/moderator by the name of *******.  That person had a meltdown in the forum and was banned.

He threatened to cause trouble if his name is mentioned in the forum.  He really can't do anything but it was just easier to filter out his name.  I know it seems silly but please don't override the filter, TIA


I'm sorry everyone.  Forgive me?  ::MonkeyAngel::   he he he

 :smt075


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 03:41:06 PM
We used to have a member/moderator by the name of *******.  That person had a meltdown in the forum and was banned.

He threatened to cause trouble if his name is mentioned in the forum.  He really can't do anything but it was just easier to filter out his name.  I know it seems silly but please don't override the filter, TIA


Ok Klaas, thanks for explaining that too. 

It seemed a silly filtering at the time, but with these explanations, I understand now the seriousness of it all.  Sorry for having made light of it.  I truly didn't know beforehand.  I ought to have known that there had to be a good explanation for it.  I just thought our filter had gone wacky.  Sorry again.   

I promise to be a good monkey for the rest of the day.    ::MonkeyAngel::


........ Sits on hands just to be sure.  hehe    ::MonkeyWink::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 03:44:06 PM
We used to have a member/moderator by the name of *******.  That person had a meltdown in the forum and was banned.

He threatened to cause trouble if his name is mentioned in the forum.  He really can't do anything but it was just easier to filter out his name.  I know it seems silly but please don't override the filter, TIA


I'm sorry everyone.  Forgive me?  ::MonkeyAngel::   he he he

 :smt075

 ::MonkeyEek::   Ducks and runs for cover...   (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/run-for-the-hills.gif)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 03, 2009, 03:48:15 PM
Soooooo.. with the 'Request For Discovery' being filed on 11.19.09 by the defense, the prosecution had 10 days to hand that over.  Right?  And if so, then the defense *should have* that by now? 

Wonder how long it will be before we see that?  Or will we?  Am thinking that's where the diary (or the copy of 'the writings') might be. 





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on December 03, 2009, 04:50:34 PM
Soooooo.. with the 'Request For Discovery' being filed on 11.19.09 by the defense, the prosecution had 10 days to hand that over.  Right?  And if so, then the defense *should have* that by now? 

Wonder how long it will be before we see that?  Or will we?  Am thinking that's where the diary (or the copy of 'the writings') might be. 





10 days?  There is no way....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: femonanon on December 03, 2009, 05:00:57 PM
OMG   :smt055
I AM SO GLAD I'M HERE WITH THE SANE ONES...was messing around over at ws and there is something really wrong going on over there/// they now only have about 25 posters involved (not banned) on the Olten case...and so much info is incorrect I fear it is hurting both sides of the case
 :smt005



just wanted to say HELLO
::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 03, 2009, 05:04:12 PM
 ::MonkeyReindeer::   ::MonkeySkate::  WELCOME  femonanon    ::MonkeySkate::   ::MonkeyReindeer::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on December 03, 2009, 05:16:00 PM
Hello and welcome to Scared Monkeys femonanon

(http://bestsmileys.com/welcome/4.gif)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on December 03, 2009, 05:50:41 PM
OMG   :smt055
I AM SO GLAD I'M HERE WITH THE SANE ONES...was messing around over at ws and there is something really wrong going on over there/// they now only have about 25 posters involved (not banned) on the Olten case...and so much info is incorrect I fear it is hurting both sides of the case
 :smt005



just wanted to say HELLO
::MonkeyJnBox::


I am suprised there are still 25 non-banned people left.... ha ha   Welcome :)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 04, 2009, 12:02:47 AM
Soooooo.. with the 'Request For Discovery' being filed on 11.19.09 by the defense, the prosecution had 10 days to hand that over.  Right?  And if so, then the defense *should have* that by now? 

Wonder how long it will be before we see that?  Or will we?  Am thinking that's where the diary (or the copy of 'the writings') might be. 





10 days?  There is no way....

No way..... what?   

The first part of the Request for Discovery says:

"Defendant requests the following within ten days and throughout the duration of this cause, pursuant to Rule 25.03............. "

The prosecution doesn't have to comply within that time frame?  Or are you wondering how they can do that, or what?  lol  Might be time for me to go play some games for a bit.  My brain is scrambled!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: 







Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 04, 2009, 12:05:48 AM
Hi femonanon, and welcome!   ::ElfMonkey::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 04, 2009, 12:18:14 AM

I am suprised there are still 25 non-banned people left.... ha ha   Welcome :)

Yeppers!  And of those 25 left, 24 post in constant fear of being banned.  Funny how they say that our forum is filled to the brim with banned posters from over there.  When the reality is, in my opinion, some/many? haven't been banned from there, just prefer being over here in an environment where there isn't that constant threat, and etc.   ::hohohosanta::


 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: jill on December 04, 2009, 12:35:44 PM
All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


NO!  I have too much work to do today to get behind.!   Oh well, looks like I will be staying over tonight...LOL

Not unless you read really reallllllllllllllllllly slowly.   ::MonkeyTongue::

But still am glad to have gotten what we did. 


hi everyone  ::MonkeyCool::

looks like not much was released.

ugh.

Wonder if they are placating us by releasing some stuff.  Making it look like they have set up a special page for it and all - when in actuality they will not be posting the docs with substance...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 04, 2009, 12:43:01 PM

BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 05, 2009, 01:02:52 PM
A couple of things occured to me.  And my apologies if already pointed out by more quick-thinking monkeys. 

-- I kind of touched on this one before, but hadn't fully explained how I felt.  I think.  lol.  Since Alyssa is going to be treated as an adult, am thinking that they ought to be treating her as an adult in all ways.  As in no going back to treat her as a juvenile in part, then forward to treat her as an adult in part.  Seems awkward to me.  She did an adult crime, IMO, she ought to be getting the adult treatment all the way, regardless.  Feels like pampering her, and BS, for them to be so dang concerned not to consider the DP for her, because of her tender age of 15, even tho at that tender age of 15 she was able to take a life!  What about the rights of Elizabeth?  Is she any less dead because her murderer was 2 months younger than one able to be considered eligible for the DP?  Sigh........

-- Ok, *IF* this goes to a trial by jury.......... We've heard of a defendant's "right to a fair trial with a jury of one's peers"... What does "one's peers" mean in terms of a teenage defendant such as Alyssa?  Would her "peers" be a jury panel full of ordinary-type teens?   Or 12 teenage psychopaths?  Perish the thought!  Maybe a mixture of both?  Yet, how could a jury panel of adults be considered her "peers"??   How the heck will a jury be picked for this case?  ::MonkeyConfused::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KarenK on December 05, 2009, 06:09:52 PM
Am guessing it doesn't matter how close Alyssa is to being 16 yrs old, that they go exactly by how old she was at the moment of the alleged crime/s.  ?? 

According to what some have found out, Elizabeth would have been 10 yrs in just a couple of weeks - December 15th, born in 1999. 

And all I have read so far is that Alyssa evidently was born in 1994.  Anyone have a date of birth for her? 

Jan 28, 1994

   



Wyks so sorry but I got in your box.  While I was there I left fresh cut flowers, fresh out of the oven bread, and some country beef vegetable soup.  I also dusted and changed the cat litter box for you. 

Alyssa's DOB is Jan 28, 1994

Awesome!  That's so sweet of you.  And you're welcome to get in my box anytime then!  Thanks so much!   ::MonkeyHaHa::   Guess I may as well run out and get a cat now.  lol


::HelloKitty::I have just the perfect kittens for you. One blue eye and one green eye one 3 months the other 10 11 months (the mother)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Deenie on December 05, 2009, 07:04:59 PM
 ::MonkeyCool::
Welcome Femonanon

------
Me thinking like Wykes ( you look smashing Wykes)
I was going back and reading all the posts of the " Friends" of AB. That some are defending her or backing her. We all have to remember and its hard to feel, let alone recognize... but the truth of the matter is " These Girls are victims too".  Its actually very Sad. All of it is.
The girls who seem to cling to AB and are asking for others to see her as they knew her .. that she was their friend. They are of their age. They still do not get it. They do not have the emotional/psych skills yet formed in their brains .. That what AB did was Vial and incomprehensible. For them they see her as " Misunderstood" by the People and by LE. Which is pretty much what should be expected of them at this time.
I only hope that their Parents " At least recognize within their daughters" they may need outside help to cope with this.

Elizabeth was a living thriving Human being who was brutally murdered by AB, planned and executed by AB. The core friends of AB see her * AB as the victim. That is not right.

These young girls cannot though grasp the actual "murder" because its out of their scope of real. Yet it is causing an affect on them, even though their focusing on their friend Alyssa.

I really hope that their is a intervention for these Girls who are in AB's corner. Its hard enough for Adults to "conceive, understand,deal" with all of this. I can't even imagine being 15, knowing your so called BFF ( as Girls say) that you went to school with, had a friendship, trust with ... out of the blue Murders someone * child * anyone in cold blood ..and even confesses. With all of what has happened and with Christmas coming. I am betting that these girls are going to be with many challenges ahead of them.
I hope that someone steps in and just flat out asks " Are You Alright? Talk to Me" .. something. Anything..
I hope the same for Elizabeth's Mother. I pray someone is holding her together first and foremost.

I was thinking though about the girls. I hope someone is helping them. Its just so tragic. Even so that these girls did not know Elizabeth nor can comprehend the Act, it seems these Gf's of AB are already at risk .. and without some sort of intervention it could really take them down to a point that is life changing. That's not right either.
Elizabeth is gone, a shameless act done by AB. And with her acts instantly so many life's changed.
That is case in point,  why Alyssa is charged with Murder 1. She knew the consequences and yet she did it anyway. NOT once though did it enter Alyssa's Mind ( Elizabeth was a Object to Her/ Ab has no Conscience)   AB never would think of, Who would suffer, who would be affected, who would live the rest of their lives in torture ( EO's Mom) ... her siblings, her Grandparents, her friends.. 

  I hope though within this time, for many Christmas time is Hard, just because. I hope that the closest to Elizabeth, and even the closest to Ab are given the support that they need ~ to get through the days and months ahead.. Its so very important that they have someone to support them. 

Sigh.   
 




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: kkazoo87 on December 05, 2009, 07:31:03 PM
anyone catch all JM's comments? Towards the bottom.

http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/20...er-identified/

Edit:  This link indicates page error.  MB


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on December 05, 2009, 07:58:37 PM
anyone catch all JM's comments? Towards the bottom.

http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/20...er-identified/

Hello and welcome to Scared Monkeys, kkazoo87.  Clicking on the link you provided indicates a "404 page". (page not found)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cw618 on December 05, 2009, 08:51:00 PM
snipped from  Reply #1172 on: Today at 01:02:52 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6392.msg1028893#msg1028893


Ok, *IF* this goes to a trial by jury.......... We've heard of a defendant's "right to a fair trial with a jury of
one's peers"... What does "one's peers" mean in terms of a teenage defendant such as Alyssa?  Would her "peers" be a
jury panel full of ordinary-type teens?   Or 12 teenage psychopaths?  Perish the thought!  Maybe a mixture of both?
 Yet, how could a jury panel of adults be considered her "peers"??   How the heck will a jury be picked for this case?
---------------------------------------
me in bold
i think the jury would be adults, since you have to be 18 to be on a jury

this case was tried by jury, then went to supreme court, for a ruling on capital punishment,
 for crimes committed while under the age of 18

Roper v. Simmons

This case, which originated in Missouri, involved Simmons, who, in 1993 at the age of 17, concocted a plan to murder
Shirley Crook, bringing two younger friends, Charles Benjamin and John Tessmer, into the plot. The plan was to commit
burglary and murder by breaking and entering, tying up a victim, and tossing the victim off a bridge. The three met
in the middle of the night; however, Tessmer then dropped out of the plot. Simmons and Benjamin broke into Mrs. Crook's
home, bound her hands and covered her eyes. They drove her to a state park and threw her off a bridge.

Once the case went to trial, the evidence was overwhelming. Simmons had confessed to the murder, performed a videotape
d reenactment at the crime scene, and there was testimony from Tessmer against him that showed premeditation
(he discussed the plot in advance and later bragged about the crime). The jury returned a guilty verdict. Even
considering mitigating factors (no criminal history and his age), the jury recommended a death sentence, which the
trial court imposed. Simmons first moved for the trial court to set aside the conviction and sentence, citing, in part
, ineffective assistance of counsel. His age, and thus impulsiveness, along with a troubled background were brought up
 as issues that Simmons claimed should have been raised at the sentencing phase. The trial court rejected the motion,
and Simmons appealed.

The case worked its way up the court system, with the courts continuing to uphold the death sentence. However, in
light of a 2002 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, in Atkins v. Virginia, 536 U.S. 304 (2002), that overturned the death
penalty for the mentally +++++++, Simmons filed a new petition for state post conviction relief, and the Supreme
Court of Missouri concluded that "a national consensus has developed against the execution of juvenile offenders"
and sentenced Simmons to life imprisonment without parole.

The State of Missouri appealed the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case.
(Donald P. Roper, the Superintendent of the correctional facility where Simmons was held, was a party to the action
because it was brought as a petition for a writ of habeas corpus.)

more on the ruling at link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmonshttp://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6392.msg1028893#msg1028893

more reading
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2009/11/post_53.html

i think A.B.  case is going to be a very long trial, and apealed many times,
and may set a few precedent or two.




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: kkazoo87 on December 05, 2009, 11:41:27 PM
oooh i feel slly. trying this again. maybe without the "..." in the middle? how do you mess up copy and paste?! sorry!

http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/elizabeth-oltens-killer-identified/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: ISpy on December 06, 2009, 12:11:59 AM
Good evening, everyone!  Catching up here and just wanted to make a comment.  cw618- Thanks for the very pertinent jury info.  The Justice system needs to be revisited and revised because minors today are not the minors of 1930-1970 (or even 1980 maybe). Our society has an ever increasing number of minors killing each other and adults...and most of them *know* they will get off with a very short sentence in most states (incarceration in a mental health facility or juvenile lock-up until their 21st birthday).   ::MonkeyCool::  Those old standards worked fairly well when society, as a whole, instructed young people in respect for authority, self-control, respect for others, obeying laws, etc.  Now our society teaches young people that they are never wrong.  Public schools teach self-esteem based curriculums, in the mistaken belief that kids who respect themselves will respect others.  Instead, it teaches them that their needs and wants are priority, it creates self-centeredness.  Many schools are changing grading systems so students don't get F's (which might hurt their self-esteem).  Then we wonder why minors are killing their classmates, their teachers, their parents, their elderly neighbors.  Oh, but don't worry, they have high self-esteem!   ::MonkeyRoll::  Our laws need to be changed in response to the problem.  I challenge anyone in the US to find a newspaper/TV station for one week, that has no  reports of a minor killing someone.  Not saying that the death penalty or life in prison will stop every teen killer, but if it was a real possibility, it would give pause to quite a few.  JMO, but I'm not buying the psychology of teen brains/emotions not being fully developed.  The real problem is their consciences, respect for authority, and self-control are not being fully developed (in most cases):
"I shot my dad 'cause he wouldn't let me play my X-Box/Playstation/Game Boy."
"I shot my mom because she spanked/disciplined me."
"I identify with a TV serial killer, so I killed my little brother."
"My buddy and I killed my elderly neighbor because we wanted her money."

I'm a firm believer in the death penalty for most cases.  To me, it's just common sense.  If you are so out-of control (drug-induced, alcohol-induced, anger-induced) that you kill someone, you're a definite threat to the rest of us.  If you're killing for the thrill of it, you're a definite threat to the rest of us.  If you have so little respect for human life that you're killing for possessions (money, shoes, bike,car, life insurance monies, child custody, etc.), you're definitely a threat to the rest of us.  Why should you get the privilege of waking up every morning, eating three meals, going to sleep at night, living and breathing...when your victim doesn't?  Killing is never an accident and doesn't "just happen".  Choice are made every step of the way.  All MOO

Rant over.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: ISpy on December 06, 2009, 12:13:40 AM
Now that I've gotten myself worked up and probably some of you too (BTW-I like bananas), it's time to call it a night.  Hope you have a good evening/morning.  Take good care.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 06, 2009, 12:22:59 AM
oooh i feel slly. trying this again. maybe without the "..." in the middle? how do you mess up copy and paste?! sorry!

http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/elizabeth-oltens-killer-identified/

Hi kkazoo87, and welcome!   ::DancingSantaMonkey1::

Oh it's easy to mess up a link, not to worry.  I try to remember to get a link from its original source, cuz sometimes when doing copy and paste from somewhere else, links can get abbreviated and lose in the translation.   

The person you are referring to, at the above link, is it the teen who has known Alyssa since around the 6th grade?  She began posting around Nov 17th, and has made several comments since. 

   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 06, 2009, 12:55:17 AM
KarenK - thanks, sounds like beautiful kitties!  my doxie tho, he likes to think of himself as the big boss around here.  a kittie would likely set him straight on that in a new york minute.  lol 


CW - thanks for that info!  it's interesting to see how other trials have worked out in the past.  i agree with you, am thinking we're in for a longgggggg trial, that will likely be appealed many times.  hopefully she will just plead guilty and be done with it. 


Deenie - thanks!  you are looking very spiffy yourself!  lol  i agree with what you've written, and do hope that friends and loved ones on both sides of this case get needed support, even therapy if that will help.  soooooooo many affected by this, my gosh! 


ISpy - thanks for your rant!  am feeling the same way.  and sure am scared for our future, for the future of our loved ones.  seems the world has gone mad, and i'm not so sure that we as a society are equipped to deal with it.  not to mention everywhere we look there are budget cuts that seem to render our society even more powerless in the face of raging and murderous teens/adults.   

 
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 06, 2009, 07:54:07 PM
Not much going on with this case.  Seems once the perp is behind bars, then there is a lull for a bit. 

Am thinking that the next court hearing for Alyssa is tomorrow? 



 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 06, 2009, 07:56:16 PM
Rest in Peace, Elizabeth.


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Elizabeth/elizabeth20olten.jpg)


 




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Louisiana5487 on December 07, 2009, 02:20:44 AM
Alyssa looks as though she weighs a little bit less then 130? I am about 5'5, 125 lbs and am a lot heavier looking then the pictures of Alyssa (I know people's body types are different) ...must of had a LOT of bad adrenaline to do what she did.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 07, 2009, 11:17:32 AM
Not much going on with this case.  Seems once the perp is behind bars, then there is a lull for a bit. 

Am thinking that the next court hearing for Alyssa is tomorrow? 



 

Dec 8th, 10:30 am.  Lets hope now that she has a lawyer there will be some video in the court room.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: arrivaderci on December 07, 2009, 08:10:52 PM
Is anyone besides me dissapointed in Nancy Grace lately..For the past week all she has covered is the Tiger Woods case, I for one don't care, its personal between him and his wife, and meanwhile other MUCH more important news stories are being forgotten about, i just think its awful. I'd like to see updates on how Elizabeths family is doing, and Alyssa's as well since they are all in need of much support during this time


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: chrissy07 on December 08, 2009, 09:24:26 AM
Not much going on with this case.  Seems once the perp is behind bars, then there is a lull for a bit. 

Am thinking that the next court hearing for Alyssa is tomorrow? 



 

Dec 8th, 10:30 am.  Lets hope now that she has a lawyer there will be some video in the court room.

Read more: Local, Crime, Special Section, Alyssa Bustamante, Elizabeth Olten


COLE COUNTY, MO -- The 15-year-old Cole County girl charged with murder in the death of Elizabeth Olten heads to court today, but the proceedings will be different.

For the first time since the legal proceedings began, KRCG”s video camera will be allowed in the courtroom when Alyssa Bustamante enters a new plea before Cole County Judge Pat Joyce.
The high school sophomore will stand trial as an adult and is now represented by a public defender.

Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson has charged Bustamante with first-degree murder and armed criminal in the strangulation and stabbing death of her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 11:55:16 AM
Bustamante In Court Tuesday

JEFFERSON CITY - The teenage girl charged in the death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten will be arraigned in the Cole County Courthouse Tuesday morning.

Cameras will be allowed in the courtroom for the first where the arraignment will take place for Alyssa Bustamante. The arraignment was originally delayed in November until she could get a defense attorney.

The 10:30 am hearing is not expected to take long.

Bustamante is accused of killing Olten by strangling, stabbing and cutting the girl's throat in October. You can read the teenager's indictment by clicking on the link to the left of this article. You can also find all of the court documents on a web site started by the Cole County Prosecutor's office.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/6df84cb0-80ce-0971-0160-ce41203b2ed9


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 11:56:02 AM
Hearing scheduled for Mo. teen murder suspect
 
 
 
 

Associated Press - December 8, 2009 5:14 AM ET

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A 15-year-old Missouri girl charged with killing a neighbor child was due in court Tuesday to enter a plea.

Alyssa Bustamante is charged with first-degree murder in the killing of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten on Oct. 21. Both girls lived in the town of St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

Bustamante was certified last month to be tried as an adult, and a plea of not guilty was entered because she had no lawyer.

Tuesday's hearing in Cole County Circuit Court was set to allow the suspect to enter a plea with an attorney present.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11638752


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 11:58:06 AM
Not much going on with this case.  Seems once the perp is behind bars, then there is a lull for a bit. 

Am thinking that the next court hearing for Alyssa is tomorrow? 



 

Dec 8th, 10:30 am.  Lets hope now that she has a lawyer there will be some video in the court room.

Read more: Local, Crime, Special Section, Alyssa Bustamante, Elizabeth Olten


COLE COUNTY, MO -- The 15-year-old Cole County girl charged with murder in the death of Elizabeth Olten heads to court today, but the proceedings will be different.

For the first time since the legal proceedings began, KRCG”s video camera will be allowed in the courtroom when Alyssa Bustamante enters a new plea before Cole County Judge Pat Joyce.
The high school sophomore will stand trial as an adult and is now represented by a public defender.

Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson has charged Bustamante with first-degree murder and armed criminal in the strangulation and stabbing death of her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten.



Judge Pat Joyce is a different Judge.  What happened? 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on December 08, 2009, 12:07:40 PM
 Jodibug  Jodibug is online now
Registered User
        
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 762
I'm back at work. Alyssa was in the courtroom for about a minute. Wearing a green Cole Co Jail jumpsuit and full shackles. Jan King waives formal arraingment and pled not guilty. Next status hearing is Feb 16th at 9am.   From Websleuths, Jodibug was in the courtroom, and it looks like there were no surprises.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: nana0567 on December 08, 2009, 12:27:14 PM
Jodibug  Jodibug is online now
Registered User
        
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 762
I'm back at work. Alyssa was in the courtroom for about a minute. Wearing a green Cole Co Jail jumpsuit and full shackles. Jan King waives formal arraingment and pled not guilty. Next status hearing is Feb 16th at 9am.   From Websleuths, Jodibug was in the courtroom, and it looks like there were no surprises.
Am I reading this right...she plead not guilty?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 12:29:39 PM
Olten murder suspect pleads not guilty

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The teenager charged with the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten waived a formal arraignment and pled not guilty in her re-arraignment this morning.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, was handed down charges by Cole County Circuit Court Judge Pat Joyce for first degree murder of Olten by strangulation and stabbing and armed criminal action in an earlier court appearance on Nov. 18.

By waiving the formal arraignment, the indictments were not formally handed down to Bustamante again. Her lawyer just entered the plea on her behalf.

Bustamante sat silently shackled in a green jumpsuit, often looking down, during the brief court appearance.

Supporters of Elizabeth Olten were in the courtroom wearing pink, while Bustamante's legal guardian, her grandmother, was not present in the courtroom.

Bustamante was certified as an adult at a certification hearing on Nov. 18. Just a few hours later, Bustamante stood in front of a Cole County judge to be arraigned. (Read the story) Because Bustamante had no lawyer present, the judge entered a not guilty plea on her behalf. (Read the story)

A status hearing was scheduled for Dec. 7 to see if Bustamante had a lawyer. However, the status hearing was cancelled Dec. 3 and a re-arraignment was scheduled for today because Bustamante now had a public defender. (Read the story)

Highway Patrol Criminal Investigator Sgt. David Rice said at the Nov. 18 certification hearing that, during the investigation, Bustamante said she “wanted to know what it felt like.” (Read the story)

Under Missouri law, when a suspect, under 16 years of age, commits a crime, the death penalty cannot be sought; the most that the suspect can get is life in prison without parole.

While Bustamante’s case was still in juvenile court, Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem was overseeing the case, Juvenile Court Lawyer Samantha Green was the prosecutor and Kurt Valentine was Bustamante’s lawyer.

Bustamante is now represented by a public defender . The prosecuting attorney, now, on the case is Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson.

Bustamante has a status hearing scheduled for February.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=387428


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 12:31:18 PM
Mo. teen pleads not guilty to killing neighbor, 9

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — A 15-year-old Missouri girl has pleaded not guilty in the stabbing, cutting and strangling of a neighbor girl.

An attorney for Alyssa Bustamante entered a not guilty plea on her behalf Tuesday to first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the Oct. 21 killing of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante sat silently, often looking down, during a court hearing that lasted less than a minute.


MORE...

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/mo-teen-pleads-not-232007.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 12:34:02 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 12:35:28 PM
Teen pleads not guilty to killing 9-year-old neighbor

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Teen-murder-suspect-due-in-court-Tuesday-78766267.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 12:54:26 PM
From Court today



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 12:55:49 PM
Olten murder suspect pleads not guilty

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The teenager charged with the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten waived a formal arraignment and pled not guilty in her re-arraignment this morning.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, was handed down charges by Cole County Circuit Court Judge Pat Joyce for first degree murder of Olten by strangulation and stabbing and armed criminal action in an earlier court appearance on Nov. 18.

By waiving the formal arraignment, the indictments were not formally handed down to Bustamante again. Her lawyer just entered the plea on her behalf.

Bustamante sat silently shackled in a green jumpsuit, often looking down, during the brief court appearance.

Supporters of Elizabeth Olten were in the courtroom wearing pink, while Bustamante's legal guardian, her grandmother, was not present in the courtroom.
MORE...

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=387428


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: nana0567 on December 08, 2009, 01:13:42 PM
Olten murder suspect pleads not guilty

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The teenager charged with the murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten waived a formal arraignment and pled not guilty in her re-arraignment this morning.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, was handed down charges by Cole County Circuit Court Judge Pat Joyce for first degree murder of Olten by strangulation and stabbing and armed criminal action in an earlier court appearance on Nov. 18.

By waiving the formal arraignment, the indictments were not formally handed down to Bustamante again. Her lawyer just entered the plea on her behalf.

Bustamante sat silently shackled in a green jumpsuit, often looking down, during the brief court appearance.

Supporters of Elizabeth Olten were in the courtroom wearing pink, while Bustamante's legal guardian, her grandmother, was not present in the courtroom.
MORE...

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=387428

I kind of wonder why Alyssa's grandmother wasn't there... :scratch:


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on December 08, 2009, 01:37:29 PM
Very strange that her grandma wasn't in the courtroom.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 02:03:38 PM
Please say a prayer and light a candle for Elizabeth.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 02:16:26 PM
Teen pleads not guilty to killing 9-year-old neighbor

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- A 15-year-old Missouri girl pleaded not guilty Tuesday to killing a 9-year-old neighbor girl whom authorities say was slain because the teen wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

 Alyssa Bustamante sat silently as an attorney entered a not guilty plea on her behalf to first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the Oct. 21 death of Elizabeth Olten. Bustamante often gazed down -- her long bangs covering her eyes, her hands and feet shackled -- during a Cole County court hearing that lasted less than a minute.

<snipped>

The judge scheduled a Feb. 16 hearing for an update on Bustamante's case.


http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Teen-murder-suspect-due-in-court-Tuesday-78766267.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cookie on December 08, 2009, 07:49:21 PM
That word that begins with an O and ends in R, was I believe the name of a monkey at one time and this person was banned and anytime you type that name it puts those ******'s instead of the word.

This was told to me a long time ago because I had the same question. Not sure I have the story exactly right, but it is something along the lines of someone who was banned. JMO JSM

could be...let's see if this one works......Dolce.....it that is exed out, then it must be banned monkeys names?

by the way Wyks...I finally got what the other word was and had thought of it too but thought....nahhh..can't be that...but JSM answered the probably reason why...

Just let it go, please.  Here is the explanation Klaas gave:

Quote
We used to have a member/moderator by the name of *******.  That person had a meltdown in the forum and was banned.

He threatened to cause trouble if his name is mentioned in the forum.  He really can't do anything but it was just easier to filter out his name.  I know it seems silly but please don't override the filter, TIA


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cookie on December 08, 2009, 07:49:54 PM
That word that begins with an O and ends in R, was I believe the name of a monkey at one time and this person was banned and anytime you type that name it puts those ******'s instead of the word.

This was told to me a long time ago because I had the same question. Not sure I have the story exactly right, but it is something along the lines of someone who was banned. JMO JSM

could be...let's see if this one works......Dolce.....it that is exed out, then it must be banned monkeys names?

by the way Wyks...I finally got what the other word was and had thought of it too but thought....nahhh..can't be that...but JSM answered the probably reason why...

nope..that didn't work like the other word...oh well...back on topic...lol!

Just let it go, please.  Here is the explanation Klaas gave:



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cookie on December 08, 2009, 07:51:12 PM
Very strange that her grandma wasn't in the courtroom.

yes...I thought that too!

also I thought that I haven't seen you around too much lately Rosie....always good to see you...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on December 08, 2009, 08:10:34 PM
Very strange that her grandma wasn't in the courtroom.

yes...I thought that too!

also I thought that I haven't seen you around too much lately Rosie....always good to see you...
Good to see you also. I've been around everyday, just don't have a lot to contribute, but I always check and read on 10 threads.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: missbrandy on December 08, 2009, 08:29:21 PM
I can't figure out why or how they can plead not guilty when she has basically already confused to the crime. Just doesn't make anysens to me can anyone help me out and explain?? thanks ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: missbrandy on December 08, 2009, 08:30:37 PM
Confused = confessed ,silly me


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 08:46:45 PM
NG is on a roll tonight covering the case.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 08:50:17 PM
From Court today
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/photos.aspx?id=387428


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 08:59:32 PM
NG had the court video on


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 09:03:02 PM
Quick Hearing for Bustamante (video also)

JEFFERSON CITY - The teenaged girl charged in the death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten was arraigned in the Cole County Courthouse Tuesday morning.

Cameras were allowed in the courtroom for the first time where the arraignment took place for Alyssa Bustamante. The arraignment was originally delayed in November until she could get a defense attorney.

During the 10:30 am hearing, Bustamante pleaded not guilty. The hearing lasted two minutes. Even though Tuesday's court appearance was short, it isn't clear how long the entire case could take.

"Every case gets dealt with based on the facts of that case and what we believe the community wants done in the case. And so our strong considerations on that go first to the victim's family, second to what we think the community wants to be done in this type of case, and ultimately what we think the jury will do on the facts of the case," said Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson.

Bustamante is accused of killing Olten by strangling, stabbing and cutting the girl's throat in October. You can read the teenager's indictment by clicking on the link to the left of this article. You can also find all of the court documents on a web site started by the Cole County Prosecutor's office.

A status hearing for Bustamante is set for Febuary 16, 2010 at 9:00 a.m.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/6df84cb0-80ce-0971-0160-ce41203b2ed9


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 08, 2009, 09:10:34 PM
Pictures up from court today:

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Teen-murder-suspect-due-in-court-Tuesday-78766267.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=0



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on December 08, 2009, 09:11:59 PM
Thank-you for the updates and all the pictures.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cookie on December 08, 2009, 09:32:37 PM
Alyssa must be mentally ill...no normal girl that age would want to know what it feels like to kill someone..they should be thinking about clothes and boys...chatting with their friends etc...
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: nana0567 on December 08, 2009, 10:21:59 PM
Alyssa must be mentally ill...no normal girl that age would want to know what it feels like to kill someone..they should be thinking about clothes and boys...chatting with their friends etc...
 ::MonkeyNoNo::
Here is a link to a short video of  Bustamante's court appearance today.

http://www.kplr11.com/news/kplr-bustamante-court-arraignment-murder-120809,0,7185087.story?track=rss


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: nana0567 on December 08, 2009, 10:28:09 PM
Alyssa must be mentally ill...no normal girl that age would want to know what it feels like to kill someone..they should be thinking about clothes and boys...chatting with their friends etc...
 ::MonkeyNoNo::
Here is a link to a short video of  Bustamante's court appearance today.

http://www.kplr11.com/news/kplr-bustamante-court-arraignment-murder-120809,0,7185087.story?track=rss
Whoops sorry Cookie...I accidently grabbed your quote. ::ElfMonkey::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 08, 2009, 11:37:00 PM
Thanks to those providing the updates!!   ::ElfMonkey::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 08, 2009, 11:45:07 PM
I can't figure out why or how they can plead not guilty when she has basically already confused to the crime. Just doesn't make anysens to me can anyone help me out and explain?? thanks ::MonkeyEek::

I hear ya!  And other monkeys who have wondered the same thing.  Awhile back, one of our legal-beagle monkeys explained this, and if I remember right, the thing is.... most defense attys do recommend to their clients to plead 'not guilty'.  It's very typical, nearly expected, that most do so, even tho they've confessed.  I just can't remember 'why' they do that.  Some legal technical reason that Jess or someone else can explain better than me.   ::MonkeyReindeer::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: GemXx on December 09, 2009, 12:27:58 AM
I can't figure out why or how they can plead not guilty when she has basically already confused to the crime. Just doesn't make anysens to me can anyone help me out and explain?? thanks ::MonkeyEek::
That boggles my mind as well. It seems like it would save a lot of time and money to work something out instead of a long drawn out trial.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: nana0567 on December 09, 2009, 12:54:35 AM
Did anyone notice in those new court pics or video footage that Alyssa doesn't even look the least bit remorseful? I just dont understand it...but then again we saw video footage of her trying to get her brothers to hurt themselves. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 11:08:03 AM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 11:09:20 AM
Chet Pleban Explains What's Next For Alyssa Bustamante (VIDEO)

MARYLAND HEIGHTS, MO (KTVI - FOX2now.com) - On Tuesday, a 15 year old girl, bound in shackles pleads 'not guilty' in the murder of her nine year old neighbor in Jefferson City. Alyssa Bustamante was charged with the brutal murder of Elizabeth Olten in October. Defense attorney, Chet Pleban explained what will happen next since Bustamante will stand trial as an adult.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/morningshow/ktvi-chet-pleban-alyssa-bustamante-120909,0,1740908.story


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 11:10:16 AM
Mo. teen charged with murder says residents biased

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- An attorney for a Missouri teenager charged with killing a 9-year-old neighbor says the trial should be moved because local residents are biased against her.

Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is to be tried for murder in Cole County for the October killing of Elizabeth Olten.

But Bustamante's attorney says residents are so prejudiced against her that she cannot get a fair trial in Cole County. The change of venue motion cites online public comments made in response to news stories posted by Jefferson City and New York City newspapers.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. She has pleaded not guilty.

http://www.bnd.com/336/story/1043283.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 11:11:12 AM
Bustamante can't get fair trial, lawyer says

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — An attorney for a Missouri teenager charged with killing a 9-year-old neighbor says the trial should be moved because local residents are biased against her.
 
Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is to be tried for murder in Cole County for the October killing of Elizabeth Olten.
 
But Bustamante's attorney says residents are so prejudiced against her that she cannot get a fair trial in Cole County. The change of venue motion cites online public comments made in response to news stories posted by Jefferson City and New York City newspapers.
 
Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. She has pleaded not guilty.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/6EF445F52F323F888625768700567627?OpenDocument


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 11:12:12 AM
Application for Change of Venue filed by Public Defender with attachments

http://www.colecountycourts.com/documents%20for%20Alyssa%20Dailen%20Bustamante/Application%20for%20Change%20of%20Venue%20filed%20by%20Public%20Defender%20with%20attachments.pdf


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 11:18:00 AM
Change of venue motion


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: FBIwannabe on December 09, 2009, 12:17:37 PM
There are so many things going on with this that make me nauseous, enrage me, and make me want to somehow stop thinking about it all!  First of all...just looking at her attorney and listening to him enter the plea makes me sick.  I understand wanting to defend people who are innocent and wrongly accused, but how can you defend someone like her?  How do you try and convince people that, through bad police work or whatever loophole he can find, that she didn't actually do this?  Insane or not, she still did it and remains, in my opinion, a threat to society.  As for the change of venue motion and her receiving a fair trial, OF COURSE people feel this way about her because she freaking confessed to killing Elizabeth and lead them to the body!!  Aaaghhh!!   :smt099

I have to stop now.  One of the things I'm praying for this week is patience, and I'm really losing it over this.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on December 09, 2009, 12:29:14 PM
There are so many things going on with this that make me nauseous, enrage me, and make me want to somehow stop thinking about it all!  First of all...just looking at her attorney and listening to him enter the plea makes me sick.  I understand wanting to defend people who are innocent and wrongly accused, but how can you defend someone like her?  How do you try and convince people that, through bad police work or whatever loophole he can find, that she didn't actually do this?  Insane or not, she still did it and remains, in my opinion, a threat to society.  As for the change of venue motion and her receiving a fair trial, OF COURSE people feel this way about her because she freaking confessed to killing Elizabeth and lead them to the body!!  Aaaghhh!!   :smt099

I have to stop now.  One of the things I'm praying for this week is patience, and I'm really losing it over this.
This happens all the time. And my guess is there will be some mental defect defense.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 12:29:15 PM
There are so many things going on with this that make me nauseous, enrage me, and make me want to somehow stop thinking about it all!  First of all...just looking at her attorney and listening to him enter the plea makes me sick.  I understand wanting to defend people who are innocent and wrongly accused, but how can you defend someone like her?  How do you try and convince people that, through bad police work or whatever loophole he can find, that she didn't actually do this?  Insane or not, she still did it and remains, in my opinion, a threat to society.  As for the change of venue motion and her receiving a fair trial, OF COURSE people feel this way about her because she freaking confessed to killing Elizabeth and lead them to the body!!  Aaaghhh!!   :smt099

I have to stop now.  One of the things I'm praying for this week is patience, and I'm really losing it over this.

I am right there with you.  Elizabeth was not treated fairly and I am sure would not have chosen to be murdered.  The monster, planned this, dug two graves, murdered Elizabeth, took police to Elizabeth's body when searchers and LE could not find the grave after being in the area for two days.  There is written evidence, and she told friends she wanted to see what it was like to kill someone.     ::MonkeyMad::    ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 12:31:59 PM
There are so many things going on with this that make me nauseous, enrage me, and make me want to somehow stop thinking about it all!  First of all...just looking at her attorney and listening to him enter the plea makes me sick.  I understand wanting to defend people who are innocent and wrongly accused, but how can you defend someone like her?  How do you try and convince people that, through bad police work or whatever loophole he can find, that she didn't actually do this?  Insane or not, she still did it and remains, in my opinion, a threat to society.  As for the change of venue motion and her receiving a fair trial, OF COURSE people feel this way about her because she freaking confessed to killing Elizabeth and lead them to the body!!  Aaaghhh!!   :smt099

I have to stop now.  One of the things I'm praying for this week is patience, and I'm really losing it over this.
This happens all the time. And my guess is there will be some mental defect defense.

I really hope you are wrong.  With her being in daily care after her suicide attempt as well as the evaluation that took place when they held her in juvi, I am hoping the whole mental defense is out the window.  If she manages to get a mental health defense then that would not speak well of the services she has been receiving prior to the murder. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 09, 2009, 12:47:50 PM
Mo. teen charged with murder says residents biased

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — An attorney for a Missouri teenager charged with killing a 9-year-old neighbor says his client's trial should be moved because local residents are biased against her.

Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is to be tried for murder in Cole County in the October death of Elizabeth Olten.

But Bustamante's attorney says residents are so prejudiced against her that she cannot get a fair trial in Cole County. The change of venue motion cites online public comments made in response to news stories posted by newspapers in Jefferson City and New York City.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled Elizabeth, stabbed her and cut her throat because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. She has pleaded not guilty.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0daWk3sRLzLhXktLIXEETYccUTwD9CFT4K00


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 09, 2009, 03:44:30 PM
Bustamante can't get fair trial, lawyer says

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — An attorney for a Missouri teenager charged with killing a 9-year-old neighbor says the trial should be moved because local residents are biased against her.
 
Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is to be tried for murder in Cole County for the October killing of Elizabeth Olten.
 
But Bustamante's attorney says residents are so prejudiced against her that she cannot get a fair trial in Cole County. The change of venue motion cites online public comments made in response to news stories posted by Jefferson City and New York City newspapers.
 
Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. She has pleaded not guilty.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/6EF445F52F323F888625768700567627?OpenDocument

Oh for pete's sake!!  Am hoping the judge laffs this change of venue motion out of court.  No need to blame "online public comments" for her not getting a fair trial.  Sheeesh.  Did he also present copies of what his client HERSELF put online beforehand?  The videos, the MS content etc.  The comments that she herself said to her friends beforehand?  Ermmm no he did not.  Didn't think so.  And why not include those?  If we're gonna use the "let's play the online public comments blame game", well yes, let's play it to it's fullest.  But no.. not a word about any of that. 

IMO, nowhere in the world will residents be anything other than prejudiced against her.  Not 10 miles down the road, not 200 miles away, not 1500 miles, or even in another freaking country!  Get a clue Mr. Defense Atty, you are saddled with a client that not many are gonna be sympathetic toward, no matter what out-of-the-way lenient court you try to find.  Quit whining and deal with it!  Suck it up, and think of ways to actually defend her, if that's at all possible.  Pfffft. 

IMO. 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 09, 2009, 04:22:44 PM
There are so many things going on with this that make me nauseous, enrage me, and make me want to somehow stop thinking about it all!  First of all...just looking at her attorney and listening to him enter the plea makes me sick.  I understand wanting to defend people who are innocent and wrongly accused, but how can you defend someone like her?  How do you try and convince people that, through bad police work or whatever loophole he can find, that she didn't actually do this?  Insane or not, she still did it and remains, in my opinion, a threat to society.  As for the change of venue motion and her receiving a fair trial, OF COURSE people feel this way about her because she freaking confessed to killing Elizabeth and lead them to the body!!  Aaaghhh!!   :smt099

I have to stop now.  One of the things I'm praying for this week is patience, and I'm really losing it over this.
This happens all the time. And my guess is there will be some mental defect defense.

I really hope you are wrong.  With her being in daily care after her suicide attempt as well as the evaluation that took place when they held her in juvi, I am hoping the whole mental defense is out the window.  If she manages to get a mental health defense then that would not speak well of the services she has been receiving prior to the murder. 

Good points made! 

We've read that she had in-home therapy for up to two hours each day.  As a clinician, I find that hard to believe.  Someone with a client who needs more out-patient care than what insurance will pay for (typically no more than two sessions a week in the office, not at home), will likely refer that client to in-patient treatment.  And since she wasn't in that kind of program, her therapist must not have felt the need for it.  Am betting that she actually had 1-2 one hour sessions a week.  In the office, not at home.   

Folks have said that the grandparents/teachers/family didn't do enough, and while that may be entirely true, we don't know what all had been tried.  She was in therapy tho, according to reports.  So her defense atty cannot say that nothing was tried.  Of course, just as when we lead a horse to water, we cannot make them drink..... Neither can we make a person actually work with a therapist when provided.  I've heard of teens/adults who just sat in a therapist's office and refused to participate, not say a word watching the clock, or .... say anything and everything just to get everyone off their back.  It's frustrating! 

Since she was under the care of a mental health professional, on an out-patient basis, at the time of Elizabeth's death, she must have been considered by the professional to be mentally stable at that same time..... So then, IMO, the defense likely won't succeed in suggesting that she was 'mentally UNstable' at that time.  He can try anything he wants to, not that it's gonna work. 

Again, just my opinion.


 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Txsflame on December 09, 2009, 08:23:37 PM
Just wondering and wanting others thoughts. IF AB sat through hours of thrapey and refused to particpate, and except help... does this prove she did not have a problem..meaning she was in touch enough to hide what was going through her head?? Another scenerio, if she truly comvinced therapist she wasnt homocidial(as one newspaper reported) isnt that yet another sign she isnt insane??


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: mizjay on December 10, 2009, 12:08:34 AM
There are so many things going on with this that make me nauseous, enrage me, and make me want to somehow stop thinking about it all!  First of all...just looking at her attorney and listening to him enter the plea makes me sick.  I understand wanting to defend people who are innocent and wrongly accused, but how can you defend someone like her?  How do you try and convince people that, through bad police work or whatever loophole he can find, that she didn't actually do this?  Insane or not, she still did it and remains, in my opinion, a threat to society.  As for the change of venue motion and her receiving a fair trial, OF COURSE people feel this way about her because she freaking confessed to killing Elizabeth and lead them to the body!!  Aaaghhh!!   :smt099

I have to stop now.  One of the things I'm praying for this week is patience, and I'm really losing it over this.
This happens all the time. And my guess is there will be some mental defect defense.

I really hope you are wrong.  With her being in daily care after her suicide attempt as well as the evaluation that took place when they held her in juvi, I am hoping the whole mental defense is out the window.  If she manages to get a mental health defense then that would not speak well of the services she has been receiving prior to the murder. 

Good points made! 

We've read that she had in-home therapy for up to two hours each day.  As a clinician, I find that hard to believe.  Someone with a client who needs more out-patient care than what insurance will pay for (typically no more than two sessions a week in the office, not at home), will likely refer that client to in-patient treatment.  And since she wasn't in that kind of program, her therapist must not have felt the need for it.  Am betting that she actually had 1-2 one hour sessions a week.  In the office, not at home.   

Folks have said that the grandparents/teachers/family didn't do enough, and while that may be entirely true, we don't know what all had been tried.  She was in therapy tho, according to reports.  So her defense atty cannot say that nothing was tried.  Of course, just as when we lead a horse to water, we cannot make them drink..... Neither can we make a person actually work with a therapist when provided.  I've heard of teens/adults who just sat in a therapist's office and refused to participate, not say a word watching the clock, or .... say anything and everything just to get everyone off their back.  It's frustrating! 

Since she was under the care of a mental health professional, on an out-patient basis, at the time of Elizabeth's death, she must have been considered by the professional to be mentally stable at that same time..... So then, IMO, the defense likely won't succeed in suggesting that she was 'mentally UNstable' at that time.  He can try anything he wants to, not that it's gonna work. 

Again, just my opinion.


 

The spin starts right away once the attys. get involved. No matter about the 2 graves. No matter about her explanation/confession. Now we're supposed to find it in our hearts to feel sorry for this killer because she has problems. Unless she had been severely abused throughout her short life and murdered her abuser, I can't find it my being to muster up any sympathy for her.
He!!, I feel mentally unstable half the time! I actually think it would be harder for a truly unstable person to commit murder. Seems like you'd have to be a little clever and devious to kill someone unless it was one of those horrible,out of control homicides where everybody goes"what kind of nut does something this terrible?"
Not making much sense so I'll go get under a blanket, ever since moving to Southern Cal. I've gotten to be such a wuss. I'm cold right now and it's about 59*, warm thoughts to all of you who are in the real cold.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on December 10, 2009, 07:37:28 AM
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20091210/NEWS01/912100343/1007/news01/Venue-change-sought-in-Bustamante-trial
Venue change sought in Bustamante trial

December 10, 2009
Jefferson City -- An attorney for a Missouri teenager charged with killing a neighbor says the trial should be moved because local residents are biased against her.

Alyssa Bustamante, 15, is to be tried in Cole County in the October killing of Elizabeth Olten, 9.

But Bustamante's attorney says residents are so prejudiced against her that she cannot get a fair trial in Cole County.

Authorities say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Olten because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. She has pleaded not guilty.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 10, 2009, 08:21:26 AM
I can't figure out why or how they can plead not guilty when she has basically already confused to the crime. Just doesn't make anysens to me can anyone help me out and explain?? thanks ::MonkeyEek::
That boggles my mind as well. It seems like it would save a lot of time and money to work something out instead of a long drawn out trial.

That is part of our INjustice system. That way, they can say......Not guilty BECAUSE ... then start giving excuses as to why the person is not guilty, although they confessed. Excuses like insanity/mental defect/PMS/PTSD/ etc., etc.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: GemXx on December 10, 2009, 08:48:56 PM
Just wondering and wanting others thoughts. IF AB sat through hours of thrapey and refused to particpate, and except help... does this prove she did not have a problem..meaning she was in touch enough to hide what was going through her head?? Another scenerio, if she truly comvinced therapist she wasnt homocidial(as one newspaper reported) isnt that yet another sign she isnt insane??
Hiding mental illness is a favorite passtime of those who need the most help. My mother was in really bad shape, she believed all sorts of delusions but she was not a stupid woman at all. Quite the opposite, Fooling mental health professionals was never a problem for her. It is very common for bipolar people to refuse or get around treatment.
Believe me, I have sat with my mother many times explaining her behavior and getting completely blown off by some doctor that she had fooled. If she couldn't fool the doctor, she just went doctor shopping until she found one that she could trick.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Lenie on December 10, 2009, 10:29:36 PM
Just wondering and wanting others thoughts. IF AB sat through hours of thrapey and refused to particpate, and except help... does this prove she did not have a problem..meaning she was in touch enough to hide what was going through her head?? Another scenerio, if she truly comvinced therapist she wasnt homocidial(as one newspaper reported) isnt that yet another sign she isnt insane??
Hiding mental illness is a favorite passtime of those who need the most help. My mother was in really bad shape, she believed all sorts of delusions but she was not a stupid woman at all. Quite the opposite, Fooling mental health professionals was never a problem for her. It is very common for bipolar people to refuse or get around treatment.
Believe me, I have sat with my mother many times explaining her behavior and getting completely blown off by some doctor that she had fooled. If she couldn't fool the doctor, she just went doctor shopping until she found one that she could trick.



I so agree with you GemX, I have a nephew who is only 8, 8 years old. He had all the docs he saw at Children's hospital and 3 private therapist believing that my sister and her husband were crazy. My sis is a very tiny 5 ft and maybe 85 pounds soaking wet and one time she was laying on the couch and he was hollering for her and she pretended to be asleep (playing with him). My brother in law had to pry his hands from around her neck he had such a tight hold that my sister could not get loose. The docs said he had a bit of ADHD and that was it. Then this year in the second grade he attacked his teacher several times. The last time broke the camels back. The teacher asked him to wait on the other kids in class to catch up on a paper they were doing and he lost it. He tried to bite, scratch, kicked, hit and called this teacher terrible names. My sister had had enough. She took him to a local hospital that does in house treatment for kids. They sent him home but used partial in house on him. He would go in at 9 everyday and leave at 3:30. They put him into all types of situations so that they could see how he reacted. After a month he was diagnosed as being bi polar. They put him on meds for that and it was like flipping a light switch. Thank God my sister persisted or we may have had another Alyssa in a few years. By the way this second grader does math at a 4th grade level and reading at a 5th grade level and can also tell you statistics and stuff to a t that he sees one time on television. Smart?? Very smart indeed.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 11, 2009, 10:20:21 AM
Hi everyone   ::HelloKitty:: 

My brain is fried at the moment, am taking a couple of steps back on all these cases, in order to regroup and recharge.  I'll be reading to stay caught up as I'm able, just won't be posting until I'm ready to jump back in with my sleeves rolled up. 

Am thinking this link might be of some help for those of you eager and able to do some more reading.  Maybe someone can take a peek to see if there is actually anything in here that Alyssa's defense atty might try and use:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5520000030.HTM (http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5520000030.HTM)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 11, 2009, 10:28:29 AM
Hi everyone   ::HelloKitty:: 

My brain is fried at the moment, am taking a couple of steps back on all these cases, in order to regroup and recharge.  I'll be reading to stay caught up as I'm able, just won't be posting until I'm ready to jump back in with my sleeves rolled up. 

Am thinking this link might be of some help for those of you eager and able to do some more reading.  Maybe someone can take a peek to see if there is actually anything in here that Alyssa's defense atty might try and use:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5520000030.HTM (http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5520000030.HTM)



Sorry, forgot to add this link as well, for further reading: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%27Naghten_Rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%27Naghten_Rules)




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 11, 2009, 10:31:57 AM
Personally, I don't think any kind of defense having to do with insanity or mental health defect etc .. is gonna work.  That's just my opinion tho.  Her atty will no doubt try anything he can think of tho.   ::CowboySmiley::






Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 11, 2009, 03:41:07 PM
THE MOST - December 11

<snipped>
Alyssa Bustamante was charged in the death of Elizabeth Olten in December. Last week, Bustamante appeared in court, pleading not guilty and requesting a change of venue. Her next court date is Feb. 16.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/7e87037c-80ce-0971-0026-37e1b4cc8208


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 11, 2009, 03:41:53 PM
<snipped>

In Jefferson City this week, a judge allowed a camera in the courtroom for Alyssa Bustamante's arraignment. During the brief appearance, Bustamante's public defender entered a not guilty plea and asked for a change of venue.

Bustamante is accused of murdering 9-year-old elizabeth olten on Oc. 21. The two girls lived in a St. Martins neighborhood few miles west of Jefferson City.

Bustamante's next court appearance is Feb. 16. Both sides will share evidence and depose witnesses.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/7be34d07-80ce-0971-01e3-415e667a7037


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Louisiana5487 on December 13, 2009, 12:47:54 AM
Ummm.....change of VENUE because residents in her COUNTY are "unfair" by their public comments? Well forget counties... move STATES for Heaven's sake.. come to Louisiana... we would LOVE to make judgement on your future here!! Good LORD! Elizabeth had NO choice on whether HER death was fair or not...this is just sickening... blah!

QUESTION:: When people plea not guilty, does this set them up for pleading insanity? If so, wouldn't it just be easier for her defense team to plea insanity now?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: nana0567 on December 13, 2009, 05:48:10 AM
Ummm.....change of VENUE because residents in her COUNTY are "unfair" by their public comments? Well forget counties... move STATES for Heaven's sake.. come to Louisiana... we would LOVE to make judgement on your future here!! Good LORD! Elizabeth had NO choice on whether HER death was fair or not...this is just sickening... blah!

QUESTION:: When people plea not guilty, does this set them up for pleading insanity? If so, wouldn't it just be easier for her defense team to plea insanity now?
Louisiana I have to say I agree with you. I really don't think it matters where they send the little monster...no jury is going to look overlook the nature of this crime. As far as those newspaper comments...anyone from anywhere can express their comments in that local newspaper. Point being, I wonder if they have stopped to think that those comments are not from just the locals there. Unfortunately she will probably get her change of venue honored...but I don't think its going to do her any good. I'm not sure about the question you asked on here...I'll leave that up to the expert monkeys. Have a great day! ::ElfMonkey::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 13, 2009, 11:58:26 AM
Okay I need you folks' help. The indictment list 228 Lomo Dr. as Alyssa's address. When I look this up on Google Earth it shows 228 is directly in front of the Olten residence. It also shows 626 Lomo as being further down the road from Alyssa's house. Is it just that Mapquest and Google Earth are incorrect? I am really confused. Also What house is this one supposed to be? Thanks for your help.     
  http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 13, 2009, 12:00:38 PM
Okay I need you folks' help. The indictment list 228 Lomo Dr. as Alyssa's address. When I look this up on Google Earth it shows 228 is directly in front of the Olten residence. It also shows 626 Lomo as being further down the road from Alyssa's house. Is it just that Mapquest and Google Earth are incorrect? I am really confused. Also What house is this one supposed to be? Thanks for your help.     
  http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg)
I am sorry I meant this house:          http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: AmandaReckonwith on December 13, 2009, 12:26:20 PM
Okay I need you folks' help. The indictment list 228 Lomo Dr. as Alyssa's address. When I look this up on Google Earth it shows 228 is directly in front of the Olten residence. It also shows 626 Lomo as being further down the road from Alyssa's house. Is it just that Mapquest and Google Earth are incorrect? I am really confused. Also What house is this one supposed to be? Thanks for your help.     
  http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg)
I am sorry I meant this house:          http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg)

Both homes are the same. They look different because the builder pic is from 2007 (I think). It doesn't appear on Google maps, but it was built behind the existing residence with the inground pool.

Look for more pics on my pb and it might make sense. Or not. Anyways, that is where the Bustamante children live(d) with grandparents, Karen and Gary Brooke.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 13, 2009, 12:45:10 PM
I keep goofing that up. I meant this photo. Sorry Amanda for the confusion. I am not very good at this


http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: AmandaReckonwith on December 13, 2009, 01:58:03 PM
I see what you mean. The homes look different. I took the pics from news footage (the bigger home) and the smaller is from the review on the builder site where Grandma Karen wrote a review.

http://www.xcfi.biz/forms/testimonials.aspx
“ We are very satisfied with the work done by Xtreme. We are a true-believer in the unvented application. Our new steel-framed home sits on a hill, with the high winds that we receive we really don't notice it until we open the door. I feel completely sealed. Thanks Xtreme. ”

Gary and Karen Brooke
Jefferson City, MO

http://www.xcfi.biz/forms/Residence-%20Jefferson%20City/resjeffersoncity.aspx

Now I am not sure that is the home, unless there were renovations and additional work.
Thanks for noticing the difference.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 13, 2009, 05:01:30 PM
If you go to google maps you will not see the new house unless you go to street view and yes google maps is not accurate.  Once at street view you will see the new drive that goes past the pond and horse paddock and the house on the hill down the road from the former Olten house.  Here is one image I capture off TV as well as the google map streetview image.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 13, 2009, 06:24:07 PM
maybe this is old news but here is a cached Charlie Rhodes myspace from late October    status :hiding something

http://tommackenzie.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/myspace_totallyavalleygirl.pdf (http://tommackenzie.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/myspace_totallyavalleygirl.pdf)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Shinju on December 13, 2009, 07:12:56 PM
Okay I need you folks' help. The indictment list 228 Lomo Dr. as Alyssa's address. When I look this up on Google Earth it shows 228 is directly in front of the Olten residence. It also shows 626 Lomo as being further down the road from Alyssa's house. Is it just that Mapquest and Google Earth are incorrect? I am really confused. Also What house is this one supposed to be? Thanks for your help.     
  http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg)
I am sorry I meant this house:          http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg)

Both homes are the same. They look different because the builder pic is from 2007 (I think). It doesn't appear on Google maps, but it was built behind the existing residence with the inground pool.

Look for more pics on my pb and it might make sense. Or not. Anyways, that is where the Bustamante children live(d) with grandparents, Karen and Gary Brooke.












The picture that is from the builders site is NOT the house at 626 lomo dr. I drove past there the other day and the house at 626 is much bigger and white not off-white, and appears to not to be brick (liek the picture), but siding.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Shinju on December 13, 2009, 07:16:06 PM
Okay I need you folks' help. The indictment list 228 Lomo Dr. as Alyssa's address. When I look this up on Google Earth it shows 228 is directly in front of the Olten residence. It also shows 626 Lomo as being further down the road from Alyssa's house. Is it just that Mapquest and Google Earth are incorrect? I am really confused. Also What house is this one supposed to be? Thanks for your help.     
  http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg)
I am sorry I meant this house:          http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg)

Both homes are the same. They look different because the builder pic is from 2007 (I think). It doesn't appear on Google maps, but it was built behind the existing residence with the inground pool.

Look for more pics on my pb and it might make sense. Or not. Anyways, that is where the Bustamante children live(d) with grandparents, Karen and Gary Brooke.


The picture that is from the builders site is NOT the house at 626 lomo dr. I drove past there the other day and the house at 626 is much bigger and white not off-white, and appears to not to be brick (liek the picture), but siding.

Also if you look at the builders website the house in the picture is wood-framed (interior pictures are available too), and in their testimonial KB/GB clearly state that they have a steel framed house.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: AmandaReckonwith on December 13, 2009, 08:51:52 PM
Corrected. Thank you!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Louisiana5487 on December 14, 2009, 01:56:09 AM
Ummm.....change of VENUE because residents in her COUNTY are "unfair" by their public comments? Well forget counties... move STATES for Heaven's sake.. come to Louisiana... we would LOVE to make judgement on your future here!! Good LORD! Elizabeth had NO choice on whether HER death was fair or not...this is just sickening... blah!

QUESTION:: When people plea not guilty, does this set them up for pleading insanity? If so, wouldn't it just be easier for her defense team to plea insanity now?
Louisiana I have to say I agree with you. I really don't think it matters where they send the little monster...no jury is going to look overlook the nature of this crime. As far as those newspaper comments...anyone from anywhere can express their comments in that local newspaper. Point being, I wonder if they have stopped to think that those comments are not from just the locals there. Unfortunately she will probably get her change of venue honored...but I don't think its going to do her any good. I'm not sure about the question you asked on here...I'll leave that up to the expert monkeys. Have a great day! ::ElfMonkey::


ALSO, it could benefit her staying put....some people may feel bad for her or support her like that idiotic girl on myspace who was interviewed on TV. Where Alyssa is NOW is probably the ONLY place she is going to have ANY supporters.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: chrissy07 on December 14, 2009, 10:48:16 AM
Okay I need you folks' help. The indictment list 228 Lomo Dr. as Alyssa's address. When I look this up on Google Earth it shows 228 is directly in front of the Olten residence. It also shows 626 Lomo as being further down the road from Alyssa's house. Is it just that Mapquest and Google Earth are incorrect? I am really confused. Also What house is this one supposed to be? Thanks for your help.     
  http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/11.jpg)
I am sorry I meant this house:          http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Olten/frombuildersite.jpg)

Both homes are the same. They look different because the builder pic is from 2007 (I think). It doesn't appear on Google maps, but it was built behind the existing residence with the inground pool.

Look for more pics on my pb and it might make sense. Or not. Anyways, that is where the Bustamante children live(d) with grandparents, Karen and Gary Brooke.


The picture that is from the builders site is NOT the house at 626 lomo dr. I drove past there the other day and the house at 626 is much bigger and white not off-white, and appears to not to be brick (liek the picture), but siding.

Also if you look at the builders website the house in the picture is wood-framed (interior pictures are available too), and in their testimonial KB/GB clearly state that they have a steel framed house.

The house located at 626 Lomo is the big house (it's actually light yellow) the house at 228 Lomo is the house owned by Karen Brooke, it is a daycare now.  The 626 Lomo is very new so it doesnt appear on some of the map sites. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 14, 2009, 03:24:22 PM
Change of venue sought in teen murder trial

An attorney for a teen accused of murdering her nine year-old neighbor is seeking a change of venue for her trial.

Jefferson City, Mo. (WiredPRNews.com) – An attorney for a Missouri teen accused of murdering her nine year-old neighbor is requesting that his client’s trial be moved out of her home county. As reported by the Associated Press (AP), public defender Jan King requested a change of venue this week, citing 15 year-old Alyssa Bustamante would not be able to receive a fair trial in Cole County due to resident bias.

King is quoted as writing in his motion, “The inhabitants of this county are so prejudiced against the defendant that a fair trial cannot be had in this county.”

Bustamante has been charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action for the death of Elizabeth Olten, who was found with her throat cut in October. She has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

http://www.wiredprnews.com/2009/12/14/change-of-venue-sought-in-teen-murder-trial_200912147452.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on December 14, 2009, 06:34:38 PM
I am no JessStar or other legal expert, but as long as a defendant pleads not guilty it remains the burden on the State to prove otherwise.  If a defendant pleads insanity, it is my understanding they have a burden of proving she is insane.  Maybe someone will correct me if I am mistaken, which is soooo very possible.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: chrissy07 on December 15, 2009, 05:06:06 PM
I was reading the News Tribune comments and apparently someone has set up a petition, actually 2.  One is trying to get her tried as a juvenile and one is releasing all charges.  Notice one of the signatures, stating it's Elizabeth, this is so wrong!!

link to the article:
BLOCKED ARTICLE

link to the petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

link to the second petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/alyssabustamantefree/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Louisiana5487 on December 15, 2009, 06:49:14 PM
I was reading the News Tribune comments and apparently someone has set up a petition, actually 2.  One is trying to get her tried as a juvenile and one is releasing all charges.  Notice one of the signatures, stating it's Elizabeth, this is so wrong!!

link to the article:
http://www.**/articles/2009/12/10/news_local/nt022local05alyssa09.txt

link to the petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

link to the second petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/alyssabustamantefree/



OH MY GOSH! THAT MAKES ME SOOOOO MAD  ::MonkeyMad::!!!!!

1st of all....anyone who supports those petitions are complete idiots.. excuse my harshness but seriously. 2nd of all, the person who wrote as Elizabeth Olten should be put in jail with Alyssa... blah people these days! Thank God for the man upstairs who is our judge in the end :)  Also, they posted some "normal" pictures of Alyssa...did they really think the picture of her holding her fingers like a gun towards her head and fake blood coming out of her mouth was normal??? HA stupid people.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 15, 2009, 06:59:28 PM
Elizabeth would have been 10 years old today. Just wanted everyone to know.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bananas on December 15, 2009, 11:38:09 PM
I was reading the News Tribune comments and apparently someone has set up a petition, actually 2.  One is trying to get her tried as a juvenile and one is releasing all charges.  Notice one of the signatures, stating it's Elizabeth, this is so wrong!!

link to the article:
BLOCKED WEBSITE

link to the petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

link to the second petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/alyssabustamantefree/



OH MY GOSH! THAT MAKES ME SOOOOO MAD  ::MonkeyMad::!!!!!

1st of all....anyone who supports those petitions are complete idiots.. excuse my harshness but seriously. 2nd of all, the person who wrote as Elizabeth Olten should be put in jail with Alyssa... blah people these days! Thank God for the man upstairs who is our judge in the end :)  Also, they posted some "normal" pictures of Alyssa...did they really think the picture of her holding her fingers like a gun towards her head and fake blood coming out of her mouth was normal??? HA stupid people.

This is a terrible travesty.  How could someone be so crass as to sign Elizabeth's name to this petition.  Wonder who set this up?  Perhaps one of her "friends"?  GEESH! ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bananas on December 15, 2009, 11:39:36 PM
Elizabeth would have been 10 years old today. Just wanted everyone to know.

Happy Birthday dear little Elizabeth.  Enjoy your celebration in heaven.... little one. ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: burkieandemme on December 16, 2009, 11:24:34 AM
Elizabeth would have been 10 years old today. Just wanted everyone to know.

Happy Birthday Elizabeth. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: burkieandemme on December 16, 2009, 11:46:28 AM
I was reading the News Tribune comments and apparently someone has set up a petition, actually 2.  One is trying to get her tried as a juvenile and one is releasing all charges.  Notice one of the signatures, stating it's Elizabeth, this is so wrong!!

link to the article:
BLOCKED WEBSITE
link to the petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

link to the second petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/alyssabustamantefree/



OH MY GOSH! THAT MAKES ME SOOOOO MAD  ::MonkeyMad::!!!!!

1st of all....anyone who supports those petitions are complete idiots.. excuse my harshness but seriously. 2nd of all, the person who wrote as Elizabeth Olten should be put in jail with Alyssa... blah people these days! Thank God for the man upstairs who is our judge in the end :)  Also, they posted some "normal" pictures of Alyssa...did they really think the picture of her holding her fingers like a gun towards her head and fake blood coming out of her mouth was normal??? HA stupid people.

I found the Elizabeth Olten post offensive as well. Only Elizabeth's family should be making the statements of forgiveness in her name, not someone hidding behind Elizabeth's name.  

PS. I do not think those "normal" photos will help get signers either.  They should have stuck with school photos, family photos etc. to generate symmpathy for Alyssa.  



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 16, 2009, 07:25:18 PM
I was reading the News Tribune comments and apparently someone has set up a petition, actually 2.  One is trying to get her tried as a juvenile and one is releasing all charges.  Notice one of the signatures, stating it's Elizabeth, this is so wrong!!

link to the article:
BLOCKED WEBSITE

link to the petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

link to the second petition:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/alyssabustamantefree/
yeah that is all pretty low. I can understand her friends wanting to show their support but I think it is a classless way to show it. She will not be simply released due to any "petiton". They dont realize the magnitude and reality of what was done to Elizabeth (and her family for that matter). If they saw the crime scene photos I believe they would not affiliate themselves with Alyssa's crime. JMO    

By the way, anyone ever discover who her boyfriend is/was?


OH MY GOSH! THAT MAKES ME SOOOOO MAD  ::MonkeyMad::!!!!!

1st of all....anyone who supports those petitions are complete idiots.. excuse my harshness but seriously. 2nd of all, the person who wrote as Elizabeth Olten should be put in jail with Alyssa... blah people these days! Thank God for the man upstairs who is our judge in the end :)  Also, they posted some "normal" pictures of Alyssa...did they really think the picture of her holding her fingers like a gun towards her head and fake blood coming out of her mouth was normal??? HA stupid people.

I found the Elizabeth Olten post offensive as well. Only Elizabeth's family should be making the statements of forgiveness in her name, not someone hidding behind Elizabeth's name.  

PS. I do not think those "normal" photos will help get signers either.  They should have stuck with school photos, family photos etc. to generate symmpathy for Alyssa.  




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 16, 2009, 09:59:40 PM
(Okay, I put that in the wrong place)


Yeah that is all pretty low. I can understand her friends wanting to show their support but I think it is a classless way to show it. She will not be simply released due to any "petiton". They dont realize the magnitude and reality of what was done to Elizabeth (and her family for that matter). If they saw the crime scene photos I believe they would not affiliate themselves with Alyssa anymore. Certainly no publicly like that.     JMO   

By the way, anyone ever discover who her boyfriend is/was?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: nana0567 on December 17, 2009, 01:47:26 AM
(Okay, I put that in the wrong place)


Yeah that is all pretty low. I can understand her friends wanting to show their support but I think it is a classless way to show it. She will not be simply released due to any "petiton". They dont realize the magnitude and reality of what was done to Elizabeth (and her family for that matter). If they saw the crime scene photos I believe they would not affiliate themselves with Alyssa anymore. Certainly no publicly like that.     JMO   

By the way, anyone ever discover who her boyfriend is/was?

I agree with you bigmoney...I honestly don't think that petition is going anywhere either. I just think it's some her friends and new fans that think she should just be released. Well hate to tell these teens the world doesn't work that way. I often wonder if they (Alyssa's friends) really stop to think about what she did. I also wonder if Alyssa would've murdered one of their siblings or loved ones...would they still be supportive of her? I don't think so...but I guess they are okay with their friend, because it was just some neighbor kid down the road. Hopefully some of these kids will come to their senses.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 17, 2009, 10:31:28 PM
Alyssa has another new attorney.  again??  already??  ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyNoNo:: 

Donald Lee Catlett
Columbia, MO
Criminal Law Attorney


Jurisdiction is in Texas  (huh???  how can he practice law in Missouri then???)
Member, Texas State Bar   1994-Current
http://lawyers.justia.com/lawyer/donald-lee-catlett-252818 (http://lawyers.justia.com/lawyer/donald-lee-catlett-252818)


On Casenet:
12/17/2009      Docket Entry:      Entry of Appearance Filed
Filing Party:    CATLETT , DONALD LEE
   Docket Entry:    Motion for Discovery
Text:    Accused's Supplemental Request for Discovery, filed. gaf
Filing Party:    CATLETT , DONALD LEE


to see that, go to link below, enter Bustamante in the first box and click find, Alyssa comes up first.  click on the case number, click on "docket entries" tab at the top, click on all and then find, when page opens click on last page -- page 5.
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchCases.do?searchType=name  (https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchCases.do?searchType=name)


Not sure how/where they found the following info, but over at WS, it's being said that:
"a preliminary search for this new attorney shows a long history of working with defendants in Missouri with mental illness---or with alleged mental illness"





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on December 17, 2009, 10:50:31 PM

Info courtesy of WS.......


Donald Lee Catlett:
an experienced public defender who has represented several defendants with mental problems.

to see that info, go to this link and scroll down page or use edit/find for last name
http://www.law.cornell.edu/usca/search/index.html (http://www.law.cornell.edu/usca/search/index.html)


here's a news article on same case mentioned at link above:
http://www.pitch.com/2005-06-09/news/blood-simple/4/addComment (http://www.pitch.com/2005-06-09/news/blood-simple/4/addComment)


here's an article that Catlett co-authored
http://www.mobar.org/e4cace40-4d6b-4acd-a237-127ee910688c.aspx (http://www.mobar.org/e4cace40-4d6b-4acd-a237-127ee910688c.aspx)


Another case of his: 1998 "Alis Ben Johns" tried in Pulaski County



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bananas on December 18, 2009, 01:23:54 AM

Info courtesy of WS.......


Donald Lee Catlett:
an experienced public defender who has represented several defendants with mental problems.

to see that info, go to this link and scroll down page or use edit/find for last name
http://www.law.cornell.edu/usca/search/index.html (http://www.law.cornell.edu/usca/search/index.html)


here's a news article on same case mentioned at link above:
http://www.pitch.com/2005-06-09/news/blood-simple/4/addComment (http://www.pitch.com/2005-06-09/news/blood-simple/4/addComment)


here's an article that Catlett co-authored
http://www.mobar.org/e4cace40-4d6b-4acd-a237-127ee910688c.aspx (http://www.mobar.org/e4cace40-4d6b-4acd-a237-127ee910688c.aspx)


Another case of his: 1998 "Alis Ben Johns" tried in Pulaski County



Than you for this update.  I gather this might mean, they are going to go for a mental illness defense?  What other reason would there be for this change of attorneys?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 18, 2009, 07:44:21 AM
I would imagine there cannot be any other type of defense than some type of mental defect type of thing.  I am sure the evidence is extremely compelling so a "not guilty" is probabaly "not likely".  Any defense attorney would try to get her something less than the maximum penalty. Prosecutor Richardson has said he is not interested in anything less than life without possibility of parole. The only thing there is to do is try to get her any lesser of a sentence. I personally believe she will be incarcerated for the rest of her life.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bananas on December 18, 2009, 08:17:58 AM
I would imagine there cannot be any other type of defense than some type of mental defect type of thing.  I am sure the evidence is extremely compelling so a "not guilty" is probabaly "not likely".  Any defense attorney would try to get her something less than the maximum penalty. Prosecutor Richardson has said he is not interested in anything less than life without possibility of parole. The only thing there is to do is try to get her any lesser of a sentence. I personally believe she will be incarcerated for the rest of her life.

One can only hope she will be incarcerated for the rest of her life...... cuz she scares the doo dah outta me!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: chrissy07 on December 18, 2009, 10:53:33 AM
According to the attached document, it appears they are going to try to get the identity of posts from various blogs and forums that show bias towards her. 

http://www.colecountycourts.com/documents%20for%20Alyssa%20Dailen%20Bustamante/Accused%27s%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 12:27:41 PM
Jan King is no longer showing as her attorney on Case.net.  Is now shows

BUSTAMANTE , ALYSSA DAILEN , Defendant     
228 LOMO DRIVE
JEFFERSON CITY, MO 65109

Year of Birth: 1994   

represented by     CATLETT , DONALD LEE ,
 Attorney for Defendant 
3402 BUTTONWOOD
COLUMBIA,, MO 65201

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/parties.do


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 12:31:49 PM
Entry of Appearance filed by Donald Catlett and Charles Moreland 12-17-09
http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 12:42:53 PM
Accused's Supplemental Request for Discovery 12-17-09
http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 12:50:13 PM
The docket entries when Jan King was the defender always identified him as "Public Defender".  Now that Donald Catlett and Charles Moreland are the attorneys on the case there is no place that lists them as "Public Defender".  Grandma and Grampus must have come up with some money or these two new lawyers are doing it for the publicity.

Where is the MEDIA in Jefferson yet again with this change in lawyers?  Hello....anyone home at the media there?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 12:52:22 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 01:04:27 PM
If someone can clean these up so they are more readable it would be appreciated.

http://epaper.wehco.com/daily/skins/JeffersonCity/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on December 18, 2009, 01:20:13 PM
Thank-you for all the updates, it does look like the grandparents came up with money for the new lawyers, I figured they would be going with some mental defect case, what else could they do? I suppose plead guilty, but that rarely happens.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 01:30:27 PM
Case Mirrors a 2000 Murder

Mid-Missouri- The murder of 9-year old Elizabeth Olten shocked the entire Mid-Missouri community this Fall. Even more shocking is the similarities it shares with a murder case back in 2000.

The Elizabeth Olten Murder (2009)

Elizabeth Olten, 9, went missing on October 21. She was last seen walking home from a neighbor's house, but never made it home. After hundreds of volunteers helped in a two-day search, authorities found Olten's body in a wooded area close to her home in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City. Alyssa Bustamante, 15, was charged with first degree murder and armed criminal action in Olten's death, after she led police to Olten's body. Bustamante lived only a few houses down from Olten, at the house where Olten had visited that day.

Bustamante pleaded not guilty to murdering Olten in October. Both investigators and friends of Bustamante say she told them she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. Police say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut the throat of Olten. Officials were at a loss over whether she belonged in the juvenile system, where she could get treatment for her mental health problems, or in an adult prison. On November 18, Bustamante was certified to stand trial as an adult.

If Bustamante is convicted of first-degree murder, she would face a sentence of life in prison without parole.

The Sheena McDonald Murder (2000)

Sheena McDonald, 12, went missing on May 14, 2000, after going for a walk in the late afternoon in the Gregory Heights subdivision north of Columbia. She never returned home. Her body was found that same night next to a shed in a wooded area close to her home. McDonald had sustained injury to her face and blunt force trauma to her head. After an autopsy, authorities said she'd died of strangulation.

The suspect, 15-year old David Dewey, lived in the same neighborhood as McDonald. He'd even helped in her search.

Friends of Dewey said they weren't surprised it was him. They said he would always remark about how one day someone was going to push his limits and he would "go over their  heads." Friends say they would always blow it off.

According to online case records, Dewey admitted being with Sheena when she died. He had gone down to a shed in a wooded area in the subdivision. Sheena was there, smoking. Dewey stated that he gave Sheena a hug, accidentally touching her inappropriately. Sheena slapped Dewey, and Dewey restrained her. In the resulting struggle, Dewey compressed Sheena's neck, and she suffocated. When he realized she was dead, he left her there and told no one what had happened.

Dewey was certified to stand trial as an adult and was charged with second-degree murder. Dewey's defense was that he suffered from diminished capacity, which negated the required mental state for murder. At trial he presented an expert witness, Dr. Rosalyn Schultz, a licensed psychologist trained in forensic psychology, to testify as to his mental state at the time of Sheena's murder. The jury was given the choice of acquitting Dewey or convicting him of second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, or involuntary manslaughter in the first or second degree. The jury found Dewey guilty of second-degree murder.

Dan Knight was the assistant prosecutor in the case.

"He was charged with murder in the second degree, so his range of punishment was between 10 years and 30 years, or life," Knight said.

Dewey was sentenced to twenty-seven years in prison in accordance with the jury's recommendation.

"It's going to be very hard for them. It's like they've lost their son, just like I lost my daughter. At least they can go visit him and look at him, and his heart's still beating,"  Sheena's mother, Alicia McDonald, said back in 2001.

Coincidentally in that same year, McDonald's step-father, Shawn Bonuchi was serving time in prison for committing a murder back when he was a juvenille. In November 1978,  Bonuchi and a Rock Bridge student, Mitchell Osburn devised a plan to steal a car and head to Mexico to buy drugs. That theft turned murder, when Osburn shot a car salesman in his side and in his back. The two teens discarded his body in the weeds next to a bridge near Finger Lakes and fled toward the Mexico border. Bonuchi and Osburn were convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. However, both men were paroled and released for good behavior. Osburn, who was released in 1997, has since been charged with the murders of three men who were picnicking at Valley Park in St. Louis in March 2002.

As for Dewey's parole, Knight said those who are convicted of murder in the second degree are eligible for parole after they serve 85 percent of their sentence. Dewey will not be eligible for parole until he serves almost 23 years, ending in 2024.

KOMU tried contacting Dewey, who's located at the South Central Correctional Center in Licking Missouri, located in Texas County.

Corrections officials said Dewey responded by saying he has learned to live with his past and does not wish to revisit the crime.

But for others, the memory of the case is an ongoing one.

"It's a case I'll never forget," Knight said. "When I hear of other homicides relating to children, I, of course, think back to the David Dewey case."

"She'll forever be in my heart," said a close friend at a memorial for McDonald back in 2000.

Looking Ahead

It's a case that gives insight into what Bustamante could face in the coming months. Her attorney's now asked that Bustamante be put in a psychiatric hospital instead of jail while she awaits her fate. He's also asked to move her trial to another county over fear of her community's bias.

Bustamante's next hearing is February 16.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/9ee36e50-80ce-0971-0165-6738a431f2a4


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 01:42:45 PM
Donald Lee Catlett

15 years since Donald Lee Catlett was first licensed to practice law in TX.
State Texas
License status Active - Good Standing
Year acquired 1994 
Last updated by Avvo
 04/30/2009

http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/65203-mo-donald-catlett-62893.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 01:50:20 PM
Parkus was found guilty of first degree murder for the strangulation death of Mark Steffenhagen. The details of the crime were set forth by the Missouri Supreme Court in its opinion affirming the conviction and sentence on direct appeal. Parkus and Steffenhagen were inmates in the Missouri State Penitentiary. Where they were confined in Housing Unit 2 B. A unit for prisoners who were considered in need of protective custody. Parkus was housed in the unit because his small physical stature made him a target for sexual abuse by other inmates. Who was also slight of stature. Was likewise housed in the unit for protection from abuse. While bruises on his neck and internal damage to his larynx revealed that strangulation was the cause of his death. Parkus was represented at trial by Donald Catlett. Catlett was an experienced public defender who had represented several defendants with mental problems. Shortly after he was appointed. The typical response he received was that the records had either been destroyed or were not kept. 2 Catlett also sought mental health records from Malcolm Bliss Hospital and was told that that facility had no records of Parkus's ever having been a patient there.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/usca/search/index.html?query=495%20AND%2033%20AND%20Missouri


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 01:54:54 PM
Opinion
Supreme Court of Missouri

Case Style:  State ex rel. Alis Ben Johns, Relator v. The Honorable Greg Kays, Respondent.

Case Number:  SC86936

Handdown Date:  01/10/2006

Appeal From:  Original Proceeding in Prohibition

Counsel for Appellant:  Janet M. Thompson, Donald Catlett and Charles D. Moreland

Counsel for Respondent:  Shaun J. Mackelprang, Robert J. Ahsens and William J. Icenogle

   Alis Ben Johns filed a postconviction motion for relief from his first-degree murder conviction and death sentence in Pulaski County. The motion court determined that Johns is not eligible for the death penalty under Atkins v. Virginia, 536 U.S. 304 (2002), and section 565.030, RSMo 2000, because he is mentally +++++++. The state did not appeal that decision, which now is final. Jones now seeks to prohibit the state, which is prosecuting him for first-degree murder in Camden County, from seeking the death penalty in that case.

<snipped>

http://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=25575




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 01:56:27 PM
Donald Catlett and Charles D. Moreland have worked together as defense before and all the case I have found so far are about getting the client off of murder based on mental defect or insanity defense.

What a flippin shame for Elizabeth. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 18, 2009, 01:58:26 PM
Stark City woman's killer to go before Supreme Court
 September 22, 2005

The Missouri Supreme Court has scheduled a Dec. 1 hearing for the latest attempt for convicted killer Alis Ben Johns to prevent his execution. Johns is on death row for the murders of Wilma Bragg, Stark City, and two others.
Johns' attorney Donald Catlett has a long record of working with defendants who have mental problems or who are alleged to have mental problems.
A thorough breakdown of the crimes Johns committed can be found in the June 30 Turner Report.

http://rturner229.blogspot.com/2005/09/stark-city-womans-killer-to-go-before.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Elong on December 18, 2009, 02:33:27 PM
I don't know if anyone has posted this yet.  It's disgusting. 

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

 ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: burkieandemme on December 18, 2009, 03:54:18 PM
Thank you Northern Rose for all of today's updates.  I am not surprised that Alyssa has new lawyers.  IMO this will not make a difference.  Alyssa knew she was going to murder someone, maybe even two.  Therefore....premeditation. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: burkieandemme on December 18, 2009, 03:55:17 PM
I don't know if anyone has posted this yet.  It's disgusting. 

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

 ::MonkeyMad::

Yes, it is pretty disgusting. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on December 18, 2009, 07:58:27 PM
I don't know if anyone has posted this yet.  It's disgusting. 

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freealyssa/

 ::MonkeyMad::

More just plain stupid. Nobody gets acquitted or charges dropped because of a "petition"


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: mamacrazy30 on December 19, 2009, 11:45:51 PM
Northern...what the heck is going on in MO?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 20, 2009, 12:30:52 AM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 20, 2009, 12:31:59 AM
Northern...what the heck is going on in MO?

The news has been very very quiet around the case again.  They did not even do an article on Elizabeth's birthday which just passed.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 20, 2009, 12:33:27 AM

BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: mamacrazy30 on December 20, 2009, 12:36:03 AM
i feel badly for the family...(each one)   this kinda thing makes your heart sink. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on December 20, 2009, 03:48:13 PM
I find this very, very frightening.  The article is about Texas juveniles with severe psychiatric problems and have even murdered, but are set free.  I hope this has no bearing in Elizabeth Olten's case.

http://www.kvue.com/news/national/79761007.html
 Loophole lets mentally ill Texas juveniles go free

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 2:34 PM

TYLER, Texas (AP) — A 16-year-old former juvenile detainee is accused of stabbing a high school teacher to death with a butcher knife. Another teen was convicted of killing a roofer during a 30-minute robbery spree.

Both were released by the Texas Youth Commission because the agency wasn't equipped to treat their mental illnesses and had to let them go under the law.

The cases highlight what some juvenile justice experts say is a loophole in the way Texas treats underage offenders with severe psychiatric issues. Data obtained by The Associated Press reveal that the commission has released more than 200 offenders because of mental health issues in the last five years and that more than one-fifth went on to commit new crimes, some of them violent.

"All these cases are failures where we should have done something different," said Richard Lavallo, legal director of Advocacy Inc., an Austin organization that helps children with disabilities.

In most states, youthful offenders aren't discharged from custody because of mental illness unless they are being committed to hospitals.

But under a 1997 law meant to keep mentally ill juveniles from being held in detention centers where they can't get proper treatment, Texas youths serving indeterminate sentences who have completed their minimum required time in custody are released to their parents or guardians.

While some experts said Texas should be commended for not warehousing such offenders where they can't get treatment, they questioned the logic of releasing them without ensuring they receive supervision.

"Without some requirement for supervision, it doesn't seem like a sound policy to me," said Gail Wasserman, a professor of clinical psychology at Columbia University and the director of its Center for the Promotion of Mental Health in Juvenile Justice.

The issue gained notoriety in September with the fatal stabbing of a 50-year-old special education teacher at John Tyler High School in Tyler. The teacher, Todd Henry, was sitting at his desk in his classroom when he was attacked.

The Texas Youth Commission discharged the boy accused of killing Henry in July because he had been diagnosed with multiple mental health issues, including schizophrenia, according to his attorney, Jim Huggler. The teen, who the AP is not identifying because he is a juvenile and has not been charged as an adult, had been committed in 2007 for aggravated assault.

Huggler said he had seen nothing to indicate the boy's family, which had relocated to Tyler from New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, had received a plan from state or local officials on how to deal with his mental problems.

"This case is sad on so many levels," he said.

The commission makes sure offenders discharged because of mental illness receive referrals to their local mental health/mental retardation centers. But there is nothing that requires the youths or their families to avail themselves of those services.

Cherie Townsend, the commission's executive director, declined to comment about specific cases. But she acknowledged it may be time to limit some of the discharges for public safety reasons or require that some be tied to conditions.

"We've got to find a middle ground where we assure public safety and accountability for actions that have taken place and at the same time find better ways to provide treatment for these youth," she said.

Any changes would have to be approved by the Legislature, which doesn't meet again until 2011.

Lawmakers did approve a measure last spring that allows youths released from custody due to mental illness to receive case management services like those available to parolees.

But the author of the legislation, Rep. Jim McReynolds, D-Lufkin, said the Tyler case has convinced him that the measure doesn't go far enough.

"This has to be looked at much more globally than a little quick fix," he said.

According to the youth commission, 206 juvenile offenders have been released in the last five years due to mental illness. Of those, 43 have been re-incarcerated. Most were returned to custody for burglary or robbery, but some were convicted of more serious offenses, including two for arson and two for sex crimes involving children.

Among the offenders who have been discharged is Jeremy Miera, 21, who is serving a lifetime prison sentence for the fatal shooting of a 45-year-old roofer in May 2006.

Prosecutors said Miera and two other teens drove around San Antonio looking for people to rob. Miera was convicted of shooting the roofer, and another of the teens pleaded guilty to shooting an off-duty Beeville police officer who was in San Antonio to attend a National Guard function.

Records provided to the AP by Miera's family show he was released on parole from a Texas Youth Commission facility in May 2005 and discharged entirely four months later for "inability to progress due to mental illness/retardation." It was his second stint in juvenile detention after being originally committed at 15 for robbery and being returned for fighting at school.

While in juvenile custody, Miera was diagnosed with depressive disorder. His parole included intensive surveillance and conditions that required him to seek employment, do community service, remain at home in the evening and continue taking the antidepressant Prozac.

Lavallo, the Austin attorney, said using the law to discharge an offender from parole "makes no sense" because it takes away state services as well as supervision.

Miera's sister, Elizabeth, said her family was "astonished" at the abruptness of his discharge and that authorities provided no direction for dealing with his illness. She said the situation was particularly confusing for her mother, who struggles to understand English.

"My mom and my brother thought everything was OK because he just got released," she said. "We never thought we would actually need to nip (a problem) in the bud."


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 22, 2009, 01:50:04 PM
Teen Murder Suspect Has New Lawyers

Jefferson City)  --  The central Missouri teenager accused of killing a nine-year-old girl in October has new legal representation.

   Alyssa Bustamante, 15, is now represented by the state Public Defender System's Capital Litigation division office.

   Bustamante faces life in prison without the possibility of parole if she is convicted for the murder of Elizabeth Olten in Cole County.

http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=218371


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 22, 2009, 01:51:32 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 28, 2009, 01:23:17 PM

BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on January 03, 2010, 02:40:35 PM
Please light a candle and say a prayer for Elizabeth

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 09, 2010, 02:29:53 AM
Please light a candle and say a prayer for Elizabeth

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on January 12, 2010, 02:59:17 PM
I am amazed at how quiet the local media has been.  They announce two new insanity defence lawyers and then fall quiet.  Nothing about how the Olten's are doing, how the schools are doing, how her friends are doing, nothing.   ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on January 14, 2010, 06:40:30 PM
I am amazed at how quiet the local media has been.  They announce two new insanity defence lawyers and then fall quiet.  Nothing about how the Olten's are doing, how the schools are doing, how her friends are doing, nothing.   ::MonkeyTongue::


I have been wondering if there was anything at all going on involving this  case. Are there any of the locals out there that have any info to share? Was her so-called boyfriend ever believed to be involved in this in any way? Are there other sources of information available on the web? Anymore pictures surface?    Thanks!!!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Txsflame on January 28, 2010, 03:29:09 PM
I find this very, very frightening.  The article is about Texas juveniles with severe psychiatric problems and have even murdered, but are set free.  I hope this has no bearing in Elizabeth Olten's case.

http://www.kvue.com/news/national/79761007.html
 Loophole lets mentally ill Texas juveniles go free

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 2:34 PM

TYLER, Texas (AP) — A 16-year-old former juvenile detainee is accused of stabbing a high school teacher to death with a butcher knife. Another teen was convicted of killing a roofer during a 30-minute robbery spree.

Both were released by the Texas Youth Commission because the agency wasn't equipped to treat their mental illnesses and had to let them go under the law.

The cases highlight what some juvenile justice experts say is a loophole in the way Texas treats underage offenders with severe psychiatric issues. Data obtained by The Associated Press reveal that the commission has released more than 200 offenders because of mental health issues in the last five years and that more than one-fifth went on to commit new crimes, some of them violent.

"All these cases are failures where we should have done something different," said Richard Lavallo, legal director of Advocacy Inc., an Austin organization that helps children with disabilities.

In most states, youthful offenders aren't discharged from custody because of mental illness unless they are being committed to hospitals.

But under a 1997 law meant to keep mentally ill juveniles from being held in detention centers where they can't get proper treatment, Texas youths serving indeterminate sentences who have completed their minimum required time in custody are released to their parents or guardians.

While some experts said Texas should be commended for not warehousing such offenders where they can't get treatment, they questioned the logic of releasing them without ensuring they receive supervision.

"Without some requirement for supervision, it doesn't seem like a sound policy to me," said Gail Wasserman, a professor of clinical psychology at Columbia University and the director of its Center for the Promotion of Mental Health in Juvenile Justice.

The issue gained notoriety in September with the fatal stabbing of a 50-year-old special education teacher at John Tyler High School in Tyler. The teacher, Todd Henry, was sitting at his desk in his classroom when he was attacked.

The Texas Youth Commission discharged the boy accused of killing Henry in July because he had been diagnosed with multiple mental health issues, including schizophrenia, according to his attorney, Jim Huggler. The teen, who the AP is not identifying because he is a juvenile and has not been charged as an adult, had been committed in 2007 for aggravated assault.

Huggler said he had seen nothing to indicate the boy's family, which had relocated to Tyler from New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, had received a plan from state or local officials on how to deal with his mental problems.

"This case is sad on so many levels," he said.

The commission makes sure offenders discharged because of mental illness receive referrals to their local mental health/mental retardation centers. But there is nothing that requires the youths or their families to avail themselves of those services.

Cherie Townsend, the commission's executive director, declined to comment about specific cases. But she acknowledged it may be time to limit some of the discharges for public safety reasons or require that some be tied to conditions.

"We've got to find a middle ground where we assure public safety and accountability for actions that have taken place and at the same time find better ways to provide treatment for these youth," she said.

Any changes would have to be approved by the Legislature, which doesn't meet again until 2011.

Lawmakers did approve a measure last spring that allows youths released from custody due to mental illness to receive case management services like those available to parolees.

But the author of the legislation, Rep. Jim McReynolds, D-Lufkin, said the Tyler case has convinced him that the measure doesn't go far enough.

"This has to be looked at much more globally than a little quick fix," he said.

According to the youth commission, 206 juvenile offenders have been released in the last five years due to mental illness. Of those, 43 have been re-incarcerated. Most were returned to custody for burglary or robbery, but some were convicted of more serious offenses, including two for arson and two for sex crimes involving children.

Among the offenders who have been discharged is Jeremy Miera, 21, who is serving a lifetime prison sentence for the fatal shooting of a 45-year-old roofer in May 2006.

Prosecutors said Miera and two other teens drove around San Antonio looking for people to rob. Miera was convicted of shooting the roofer, and another of the teens pleaded guilty to shooting an off-duty Beeville police officer who was in San Antonio to attend a National Guard function.

Records provided to the AP by Miera's family show he was released on parole from a Texas Youth Commission facility in May 2005 and discharged entirely four months later for "inability to progress due to mental illness/retardation." It was his second stint in juvenile detention after being originally committed at 15 for robbery and being returned for fighting at school.

While in juvenile custody, Miera was diagnosed with depressive disorder. His parole included intensive surveillance and conditions that required him to seek employment, do community service, remain at home in the evening and continue taking the antidepressant Prozac.

Lavallo, the Austin attorney, said using the law to discharge an offender from parole "makes no sense" because it takes away state services as well as supervision.

Miera's sister, Elizabeth, said her family was "astonished" at the abruptness of his discharge and that authorities provided no direction for dealing with his illness. She said the situation was particularly confusing for her mother, who struggles to understand English.

"My mom and my brother thought everything was OK because he just got released," she said. "We never thought we would actually need to nip (a problem) in the bud."

 The TYC and TDCJ(the youth and adult prsion systems in Texas) are both SOOO screwed up, it isnt funny. There are serious problem in both, and it is a well known fact, but everyone is working so hard at CYA, nothing gets better. The workers are mostly miserable, and no one can trust another for the most part.. each department blaming other departments for the problems. The good officer cant get help, and the bad one are running the show, (on the lower levels) and the upper management(yes all the wya up to Austin) really dont care. many of Texas' elected officials consider the prison workers "babysitters" and have said this.. There are many good officers, but they are up against brick walls and no help. (just my observations from working there 5 years, Living on prison property most of my life, and having my whole family work there. )


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 03, 2010, 01:55:18 PM
New docket entry.  Case status on Feb 16, AB is excused from appearing .  There is absolutely not ONE news site carrying anthing about this case.   ::MonkeyMad::  How very sad for Elizabeth .


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 03, 2010, 01:55:59 PM
forgot the link on that document

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on February 03, 2010, 02:20:25 PM
Thank-you Northern  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 10, 2010, 12:02:58 PM

BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 15, 2010, 02:56:46 PM
Dad of slain Mo. girl pleads guilty to gun charges

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - The father of a slain mid-Missouri girl has pleaded guilty to federal gun charges.

Dale Olten Sr. was in prison on a state drug conviction when his 9-year-old daughter, Elizabeth, was killed last October in the town of St. Martins near Jefferson City. Alyssa Bustamante, who was age 15 at the time, has been charged as an adult with first-degree murder and has pleaded not guilty.

The U.S. attorney's office said Friday that Olten pleaded guilty to illegally possessing 29 guns. The weapons were found when authorities investigating a series of burglaries searched his Russellville home in February 2009.

Prosecutors say Olten admitted that 17 of the guns had been stolen.

Olten was barred from possessing guns because of previous felony convictions.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11978089


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 15, 2010, 02:58:00 PM
Father of slain girl pleads guilty to federal gun charges

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. -- The father of a slain mid-Missouri girl has pleaded guilty to federal gun charges.

Dale Olten Sr., 46,  was in prison on a state drug conviction when his 9-year-old daughter, Elizabeth, was killed last October in the town of St. Martins near Jefferson City.

Alyssa Bustamante, who was age 15 at the time, has been charged as an adult with first-degree murder and has pleaded not guilty.

The U.S. attorney's office said Friday that Olten pleaded guilty to illegally possessing 29 rifles, shotguns and handguns on Feb. 27, 2009. He also admitted that 17 of those firearms were stolen.

The firearms were discovered when law enforcement officers, investigating a series of burglaries, searched Olten’s residence.

Olten could get a minimum sentence of at least 15 years in federal prison without parole, plus a fine up to $500,000.

(http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/uploadedImages/krcg/News/dale%20olten%20sr.jpg?)

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=415789


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 15, 2010, 03:03:31 PM
Coming to Grips with Bizarre Murder Case (with video of father Dale and lots of new pictures)

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- Many community and family members, struck hard by the death of Elizabeth Olten, are struggling to make sense of the fact that a local teenager is charged with Elizabeth's murder.

A grand jury indictment says 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante killed her 9-year-old acquaintance by strangulation, cutting her throat and stabbing her.  Bustamante is charged as an adult.

Family and friends shared intimate details with us about both girls, answering some of the many unanswered questions about how such a thing could happen.

A Troubled Girl

In exclusive video her friends shared with NBC Action News, Alyssa Bustamante looks like a typical teen riding on a school bus, laughing, joking and sometimes hamming it up for the camera held by a classmate.

She says to another student on the bus, “I’m gonna pop a cap in your ass.”  It’s something a lot of kids jokingly say to others these days.

But when that kid is Alyssa Bustamante, now accused of murdering for the thrill of it, that statement raises eyebrows.

Lindsey Jones showed us the video she took of her friend Alyssa nearly a year ago.  Jones wanted us to see a different side of Bustamante.  Besides that one statement, most of the video shows Bustamante as an outgoing, loud and joking kid.

"I want to remember Alyssa as I know her, as I think she still is. I believe she’s a troubled girl who made a decision and didn’t really think it out.” Jones said.

Alyssa's public image is much different.  Some have called her a teenaged monster after learning that she is charged with murdering Elizabeth Olten.  Others have said Bustamante had been planning to hurt someone.   

During police interrogations, Bustamante made a startling admission according to sworn court testimony by the Missouri highway patrol sergeant who questioned her.

According to his testimony, Bustamante killed 9-year old Olten simply because "she wanted to know what it felt like."

Experts have also testified that Bustamante was on Prozac.  At the time of Elizabeth Olten's murder, Bustamante was living with her grandmother.  The grandmother had tried to help Alyssa cope with depression and a recent suicide attempt.

Alyssa Bustamante and Elizabeth Olten lived several houses apart in St. Martins, a small town just west of Jefferson City.

Authorities say Bustamante plotted Elizabeth's murder for months.

Sources close to the investigation say Bustamante intended to kill and bury only one person that October afternoon.

That leaves this question unanswered: Why did she dig two graves in the wooded area near her home?


MORE....


http://www.nbcactionnews.com/content/investigative/story/Coming-to-Grips-with-Bizarre-Murder-Case/tNp71Xn6-kiZbI9zWOt8rg.cspx?articleID=584892


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 15, 2010, 03:11:48 PM
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/Photo.aspx?content_id=d57bdab4-fa79-48fa-996c-8f7358eb7cae




Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 16, 2010, 10:58:10 AM
Teen murder suspect has hearing today

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The case against a teen murder suspect is moving closer to trial.

A status hearing is scheduled Tuesday morning for Alyssa Bustamante.

Bustamante has been charged as an adult with first-degree murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten and has pleaded not guilty.

The judge has excused Bustamante from appearing at the status hearing.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=416720


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 16, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
Bustamante Court Hearing Tuesday Morning

JEFFERSON CITY - Tuesday's 9 a.m. status hearing at the Cole County Courthouse will move the case closer to trial.

Judge Patricia Joyce will preside over Tuesday morning's status hearing. Judge Joyce waived Bustamante's appearance for today. Instead the teen's public defender will stand in for her.

The 16-year-old teenager from St. Martins pleaded not guilty to first degree murder and armed criminal action charges during her re-arraignment in December. However, prosecutors say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut nine-year-old Elizabeth Olten's throat before hiding her body in dense woods near the two girls' homes.

Authorities initially withheld Bustamante's identity until the court system certified her to stand trial as an adult. Bustamante had no prior criminal offenses, but records indicate she did try and attempt suicide in 2007. That prompted her public defender to request a psychiatric treatment evaluation for the teen. Even so, Judge Joyce has yet to rule on this request.

KOMU 8 News spoke with Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson who said it may take close to a year to prepare for trial due to the complex nature of this case.  Richardson added, "Our strong considerations first go to the victim's family. Second, what we think the community wants to be done in this type of case and ultimately what we think the jury will do on the facts of this case."

KOMU 8 News will have a crew at today's status hearing.  That crew will bring you updates throughout the day on KOMU.com and on Tuesday evening's newscasts.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/d687df7f-80ce-0971-002a-e65e983bedd4


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 16, 2010, 11:00:54 AM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 16, 2010, 11:03:22 AM
Out-of-town jury to hear case in Mo. girl's death

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — An out-of-town jury will hear the case against a central Missouri teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old neighbor.

Attorneys for Alyssa Bustamante had asked that her first-degree murder trial be moved to another county because of the publicity surrounding Elizabeth Olten's death last fall.

But during a hearing Tuesday, prosecutor Mark Richardson said he preferred to keep the case in Cole County because he expects to call several witnesses and out of respect for the victim's family. He suggested bringing in a jury from another county.

Judge Patricia Joyce scheduled a March 8 hearing to decide where the jury will be selected.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty in Elizabeth's death. Authorities say Bustamante, who was 15 at the time, confessed to slaying her neighbor because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0daWk3sRLzLhXktLIXEETYccUTwD9DTBRN00


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on February 16, 2010, 12:35:17 PM
Thanks so much for the updates, I personally see no reason to bring in the jury from another county.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 16, 2010, 01:56:32 PM
Bustamante trial to stay in Cole Co., jurors to be brought in from elsewhere
by Jessica Machetta on February 16, 2010

in Crime & Courts

A status hearing was held today in Jefferson City in the case Alyssa Bustamante, who is accused of killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten in rural Cole County.

The case has received national attention, and although Bustamante’s attorneys requested to move the trial to different county, Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce decided to select a jury from outside of Cole County and keep the proceedings locally centered, taking the family members into consideration.

Bustamante was 15 when she allegedly lured Olten into the woods, strangled, stabbed and cut her throat, then buried her. Authorities say she dug two graves days before the killing. She told them she “wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone” when she confessed to the killing, according to reports.

She has pleaded not guilty.

Bustamante is being represented by two attorneys from Columbia, Boone County — Donald Catlett and Charles Moreland — both with capital litigation division of the State Public Defender’s Office.

Bustamante’s legal counsel asked in December for a change in venue, but at today’s hearing, Prosecutor Mark Richardson says “he expects to call a large number of witnesses” and that it would be a burden to Elizabeth’s family to have to travel.

Catlett said he still is waiting to receive copies of police reports and other evidence needed for a trial; a date has not yet been set.

Bustamante was not present in the courtroom today, but will be at the March 8 hearing. Members of the Olten family were in the courtroom.

http://www.missourinet.com/2010/02/16/bustamante-trial-to-stay-in-cole-co-jurors-to-be-brought-in-from-elsewhere/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 16, 2010, 01:57:59 PM
Audio of the Status meeting today

http://www.missourinet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Bustamante-for-Web-021610.MP3


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on February 16, 2010, 07:08:52 PM
Thanks so much for the updates, I personally see no reason to bring in the jury from another county.

nrcg, I have been watching our local news about bringing a jury in and the news was showing videos of AB on the school bus.  Supposedly showing a different side to the 'monster' we have heard about...........a normal side. Interviews with a couple young girls all taking about how nice she was, how normal she was, how she must have just flipped out...........I agree about bringing a jury in.........I would be concerned about locals having children her age and listening to their take on her.  I am really concerned about her getting off on 'not guilty by reason of insanity' and someday being set free.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 16, 2010, 11:07:14 PM
Lawyers in Bustamante case to decide from where to import jury

A jury from another county will hear the case against murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante.

Judge Pat Joyce granted the change of venue during a hearing Tuesday morning at the Cole County courthouse.

Alyssa Bustamante now awaits trial for the murder of nine-year-old Elizabeth Olten in the Morgan County Jail, where Bustamante turned 16 years old.

Bustamante did not appear in court for the proceeding, but was represented by her attorney Donald Catlett. On the question of venue, Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson was opposed to taking the trial on the road because of the number of witnesses he expects to call and out of respect to Elizabeth Olten's family.

"It would be burdensome for them to move to another county,” Richardson said. “What the state would propose is that the court would allow that a jury be selected from another county and brought here for the trial to occur here in Cole County.”

Catlett agreed, but was not ready to say which county should be tapped for jury selection.

 “Since Miss Bustamante isn't here today, I don't think we're really in a position to argue that at this time,” Catlett said.

Catlett was also unsure of when the defense would be ready to go to trial.

"Your honor, we have not received the complete discovery  yet, so it's really hard to make any kind of estimate on that until we get a look at all the police reports,” Catlett said.

"And are we gonna be looking at some things from the lab that are gonna delay the trial date?" Joyce said.

"I do not believe they will, your honor,” Richardson said.

Joyce directed the lawyers to return to court March 8 to determine from which county the jury will be chosen.

Bustamante will be in the courtroom at that time.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=417348


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 19, 2010, 07:26:27 PM


BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 19, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
Killing for the thrill

Many Missouri community and family members, struck hard by the death of Elizabeth Olten, are struggling to make sense of the fact that a local teenager is charged with Elizabeth's murder.

A grand jury indictment says 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante killed her 9-year-old acquaintance by strangulation, cutting her throat and stabbing her. Bustamante is charged as an adult.

Family and friends shared intimate details with us about both girls, answering some of the many unanswered questions about how such a thing could happen.

In exclusive video her friends shared, Alyssa Bustamante looks like a typical teen riding on a school bus, laughing, joking and sometimes hamming it up for the camera held by a classmate.

She says to another student on the bus, “I’m gonna pop a cap in your ass.”  It’s something a lot of kids jokingly say to others these days.

But when that kid is Alyssa Bustamante, now accused of murdering for the thrill of it, that statement raises eyebrows.

Lindsey Jones showed us the video she took of her friend Alyssa nearly a year ago.  Jones wanted us to see a different side of Bustamante.  Besides that one statement, most of the video shows Bustamante as an outgoing, loud and joking kid.

"I want to remember Alyssa as I know her, as I think she still is. I believe she’s a troubled girl who made a decision and didn’t really think it out.” Jones said.

Alyssa's public image is much different.  Some have called her a teenaged monster after learning that she is charged with murdering Elizabeth Olten.  Others have said Bustamante had been planning to hurt someone.   

During police interrogations, Bustamante made a startling admission according to sworn court testimony by the Missouri highway patrol sergeant who questioned her.

According to his testimony, Bustamante killed 9-year old Olten simply because "she wanted to know what it felt like."

Experts have also testified that Bustamante was on Prozac.  At the time of Elizabeth Olten's murder, Bustamante was living with her grandmother.  The grandmother had tried to help Alyssa cope with depression and a recent suicide attempt.

Alyssa Bustamante and Elizabeth Olten lived several houses apart in St. Martins, a small town just west of Jefferson City.

Authorities say Bustamante plotted Elizabeth's murder for months.

Sources close to the investigation say Bustamante intended to kill and bury only one person that October afternoon.

That leaves this question unanswered: Why did she dig two graves in the wooded area near her home?

Global news outlets are now covering the story.  So are student reporters with the Jefferson City High School student paper, "The Red and Black".   

Bustamante is supposed to be a sophomore at Jefferson City High.

In covering the story, student reporters say they have learned about a regular kid, with a sweet side, who hid emotional scars.

Alyssa was known to cut herself and even attempted suicide.

“I know that she had been to therapy before. I know that she had the history with the cutting and that she had tried to kill herself,” says Julie Blankenship, the lead student reporter on the story for "The Red and Black".

Blankenship says the murder has had a great impact on students at the high school.  She says many students became upset and angry when the news broke.  Now, the tone inside school hallways is returning back to normal.

Elizabeth Olten was outgoing.  She loved animals and playing with Barbie dolls.

Elizabeth's biological father said, "She’s my bug. She’s my heart,” says Dale Olten.

http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S1420470.shtml?cat=565


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 19, 2010, 07:30:57 PM
 




BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Hitch on March 05, 2010, 04:40:19 PM



BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on March 07, 2010, 10:53:30 PM
Mo. murder suspect asks to wear own clothing

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - Lawyers for a central Missouri teenager charged with killing her 9-year-old neighbor want the suspect to appear in court in her own clothes.

Sixteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante has a pretrial hearing scheduled Monday in Cole County Circuit Court in Jefferson City.

Defense lawyers filed a motion this week seeking to let Bustamante wear her own clothing at all court appearances. They say pretrial images of the teen in jail clothing would impair the presumption of innocence.

Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder and armed criminal action in last October's killing of Elizabeth Olten, whose body was found in a wooded area just west of Jefferson City. Bustamante has pleaded not guilty.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12087165


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on March 07, 2010, 10:54:31 PM
Bad Idea: Alyssa Bustamante's Attorney Wants Emo Teen to Wear Her Own Clothes in Court

Last fall the then 15-year-old "emo teenager" from outside Jefferson City allegedly dug a grave and plotted the murder of her nine-year-old neighbor. Days later authorities say Bustamante followed through with the act, strangling and stabbing to death Elizabeth Olten because she "wanted to know what it felt like" to kill someone.

Now, 16, Bustamante has a a pretrial hearing this coming Monday and her attorney has asked the court that she be allowed to wear her own clothing -- instead of a prison garb. As the Associated Press reports, the attorney believes that the "pretrial images the teen in jail clothing would impair the presumption of innocence."

To which, Daily RFT asks: Has the attorney ever seen the emo Bustamante (above) in her own clothes?

Somehow we think the jail suit might make her a bit more sympathetic. View a video of Bustamante in her street clothes after the jump...   

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/03/bad_idea_alyssa_bustamantes_attorney_wants_emo_teen_to_wear_her_own_clothes_in_court.php


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on March 07, 2010, 10:55:42 PM
Greene County jury to hear central Mo. murder case of 9-year-old

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - Jurors will be selected from the Springfield area for the murder trial of a central Missouri teenager charged with killing her 9-year-old neighbor.

Attorneys agreed Friday to bring jurors from Greene County to hear the Cole County trial of 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante.

Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder in last October's killing of Elizabeth Olten, whose body was found in a wooded area just west of Jefferson City. Bustamante has pleaded not guilty.

Defense lawyers also filed a motion this week seeking to let Bustamante wear her own clothes in court. They say pretrial images of the teen in jail clothing would impair the presumption of innocence.

A pretrial hearing had been scheduled for Monday, but was postponed to April 28.

http://www.kait8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12091425


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on March 07, 2010, 10:56:59 PM
Bustamante status hearing canceled

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The Cole County Court has decided to cancel the March 8 status hearing for teen murder suspect Friday.

Alyssa Bustamante, charged with first degree murder of Elizabeth Olten, had a status hearing scheduled that would determine which county the trial jury will be picked from.

Prosecutor Mark Richardson and Defense Attorney Don Catlett decided to pick the jury from Greene County, where Springfield, Mo. is located. The next court date is scheduled for April 28 at 11 a.m. where her appearance is excused

A motion was filed Wednesday to allow Bustamante to wear her own clothes to the trial. That motion is still being discussed.


See the judge's order here
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/uploadedFiles/krcg/News/Stories/~0923211.pdf

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=425832


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: bigmoney on March 11, 2010, 07:21:28 PM
I heard on the radio earlier that there was a ruling in which her juveniles records would be opened for her attorneys only. Attorneys are also allowed to consult with the professionals involved with her as a juvenile. Anyone else hear this stuff?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on March 11, 2010, 08:21:13 PM
Here is the order
http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on April 07, 2010, 02:17:20 PM
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=436966
Bustamante lawyers want to keep research secret
By Newsdesk KRCG
Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 3:48 p.m.

Read more: Local, Community, Crime, Alyssa Bustamante, Elizabeth Olten

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- The public defenders for accused murderer 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante have asked to keep their research and witness list secret.

Bustamante's attorneys said it's important their strategy for defending the teen be private so that Bustamante receives an adequate defense.

The defense wants private access to records from Bustamante's past.

But many of those records are privacy protected and can only be obtained by court order, meaning the prosecution would know what records the defense requested.

A judge could rule on the motion at the next court date of April 28.

Bustamante is charged with first degree murder in the October 2009 stabbing and strangulation death of her 9 year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 20, 2010, 05:58:18 AM
Mo. teen murder suspect seeks to continue school

Associated Press - April 20, 2010 5:14 AM ET

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A central Missouri teenager charged with killing her 9-year-old neighbor wants to continue her education while awaiting trial.

Sixteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder in last October's killing of Elizabeth Olten, whose body was found in a wooded area just west of Jefferson City.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty and is in jail without bond. She had been a high school sophomore.

The defense has filed a motion asking a judge to let Bustamante continue her high school education through a distance learning program. The motion requests that the Cole County Sheriff's Office pay the costs.

Defense lawyers have asked a Cole County judge to consider their request during a hearing next week.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12339385

Well BOO FREAKIN' HOO HOO!! Elizabeth would have liked to continue TO LIVE!!  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on April 21, 2010, 05:31:51 PM
When is the judge supposed to rule on the Order to Release Juvenile Records?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on April 21, 2010, 05:32:56 PM
Will the Jury be brought from Springfield to Cole County, or will the trial be held in Greene County?  If so, I'm 20 minutes away from Springfield, maybe I could sneak into some of the trial :)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 21, 2010, 06:15:44 PM
mmmmmm......I can't answer your questions.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 28, 2010, 12:48:32 PM
Mo. teen murder suspect asks court for school help

Associated Press - April 28, 2010 11:54 AM ET

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A Cole County judge will hear a central Missouri teenager's request to take high school distance learning courses while she awaits trial in the death of her 9-year-old neighbor.

Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce will consider the request by Alyssa Bustamante's attorney at a Wednesday hearing. The 16-year-old defendant is not expected to attend.

Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder in last October's killing of Elizabeth Olten, whose body was found just west of Jefferson City.

The defense also wants Joyce to allow Bustamante to wear regular clothes and to not be shackled during trial.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty and is in jail without bond. She was a high school sophomore when she was arrested.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12390167

BOO HOO.....perhaps if you didn't brutally murder Elizabeth, you could still be in school.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on April 28, 2010, 04:17:32 PM
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A Cole County judge has granted a central Missouri teenager's request to wear regular clothes instead of her jail uniform when she goes to trial on charges of killing her 9-year-old neighbor.

Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce ruled Wednesday in favor of the request by 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante's state-appointed
attorneys. The judge did not rule on another defense request that Bustamante be allowed to take high school distance learning courses at public expense while awaiting trial.


      Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder in last October's killing of Elizabeth Olten, whose body was found
just west of Jefferson City. She was a 15-year-old high school sophomore when she was arrested.


      The teenager remains in jail without bond after pleading not guilty. She did not attend Wednesday's hearing.

      A jury from Greene County will hear Bustamante's case.

www.ky3.com


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: YourMom on April 28, 2010, 04:22:18 PM
Today they released discovery to defense:  autopsy photos and yesterday, a DNA report.   I wish we could see all this stuff....ugh.

I guess we won't find out until July 27th if they are letting her do her "high school"....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Roxie on April 29, 2010, 12:09:49 PM
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/04/accused_teen_murderer_alyssa_bustamante_prison_clothes_emo.php


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Roxie on April 29, 2010, 12:15:25 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Roxie on April 29, 2010, 12:17:39 PM
Court News
     
 

ALYSSA BUSTAMANTE CASE 09AC-CR03516

The Cole County Circuit Court would like to take this opportunity to provide the citizens of Cole County, the general public and the media with information regarding the Alyssa Bustamante Case. Please refer to case 09AC-CR03516. Because of the enhanced media interest in this case, documents filed in this case will be posted to the Courts Web page within one business day of their filing.

Users can also access Case.net information available on the Missouri Judiciary home page. To begin your search please select the case number search and type in 09AC-CR03516. From there you will be able to inquire on docket entries and scheduled events for this case.

The information that is available on either website is provided as a service and is not considered an official court record.

If you have questions regarding the documents posted or the events scheduled, please contact Marilue Hemmel by e-mail at marilue.hemmel@courts.mo.gov or by telephone at (573) 659-2302.

Documents Filed:

04-28-10   Case continued for status to July 27, 2010 at 1:30 p.m.
04-28-10   Order Concerning Clothing and Restraints in Court
04-28-10   Judge's Docket Entry
04-28-10   State's Suggestions in Opposition to Defendant's Motions Requesting Special Clothing, Special Education, and Special Ex Parte (Secret) Filings
04-28-10   State's Supplemental Answer to Defendant's Request for Discovery
04-27-10   State's Supplemental Answer to Defendant's Request for Discovery
04-16-10   Notice
04-16-10   Motion to Allow Alyssa to Complete High School
03-29-10   Notice
03-29-10   Request to File Some Motions Ex Parte When Deemed Appropriate by the Court
03-17-10   Certificate of Service 
03-08-10   Order for Release of Juvenile Records 
03-05-10   Hearing Continued/Rescheduled. The hearing scheduled for March 8, 2010 is continued to April 28, 2010 @ 11:00 a.m. See docket sheet entry.
03-03-10   Notice for hearing on ruling of motion on March 8, 2010 @ 11:30 a.m.
03-03-10   Motion to Allow Accused to Appear In Her Own Clothing and Without Visible Restraints At All Court Appearances
02-23-10   State's Supplemental Answer to Defendant's Request for Discovery
02-18-10   State's Supplemental Answer to Defendant's Request for Discovery
02-16-10   Counsel Status Hearing Held. State appears by Prosecuting Attorney Richardson. Attorney Moreland and Attorney Catlett appear on behalf of the Defendant. Counsel status hearing is scheduled for March 8, 2010 at 11:30 a.m. Attorney Moreland and Attorney Catlett request the defendant appear in person for status hearing on March 8, 2010.
02-02-10   Docket Entry
12-17-09   Accused's Supplemental Request for Discovery
12-17-09   Entry of Appearance filed by Donald Catlett and Charles Moreland
12-08-09   Application for Change of Venue filed by Public Defender with attachments
12-08-09   Next scheduled hearing is for February 16, 2010 at 9:00 a.m. 
12-08-09   Docket Entry 
12-03-09   Copy of Indictment * A copy of the Indictment was filed by the Prosecuting Attorney's Office today since the victim's name was redacted from the original filing.
11-30-09   Hearing from December 7, 2009 has been continued to December 8, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. 
11-19-09   Motion for Immediate Hospitalization and Treatment 
11-19-09   Entry of Appearance 
11-19-09   Request for Discovery 
11-19-09   Warrant for Arrest Served 
11-19-09   Offense Cycle Number 
11-18-09   Form 1 - General Docket Entry 
11-18-09   Docket Entry 
11-18-09   Warrant for Arrest 
11-18-09   Indictment * The Victim's name was redacted by clerical error 
     

 






 

 




 






 








 

 

DISCLAIMER The Cole County Circuit Court (19 th Judicial Circuit) presents this material for informational purposes only. Please note that:
--Accessing this site does not create or constitute, in any manner, an agreement or contract between the clerk’s office and the visitor.
--While some of the information on this site is about legal issues, it is not legal advice.
Page Last Updated: Wednesday, April 28, 2010


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Roxie on April 29, 2010, 12:20:29 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on May 03, 2010, 11:21:19 AM
Last month 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante's requested that she be allowed to wear her "regular clothes" to trial instead of her prison uniform. Yesterday a judge in central Missouri approved Bustamante's request.

The teen is accused of the horrific murder last fall of her nine-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten. According to authorities, Bustamante dug a grave days before strangling and stabbing to death the girl because she "wanted to know what it was like to kill someone."

The question now is whether Bustamante will dress in her emo attire for trial or wear a more traditional outfit.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/04/accused_teen_murderer_alyssa_bustamante_prison_clothes_emo.php


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Shinju on May 03, 2010, 06:54:44 PM
Murder victim's father gets different judge   

By Newsdesk KRCG
Monday, May 03, 2010 at 5:04 p.m.

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. -- Judge Pat Joyce granted a change of judge in a case against Dale Olten, Sr. of St. Martins, Mo.

Olten faces charges of burglary and being a felon in possession of a firearm.

He is also the father of 9-year-old murder victim Elizabeth Olten.

He asked for a different judge because Joyce is also presiding over the trial of murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante, who is charged for murdering his daughter.

Despite assurances from his lawyer, Olten was concerned over the possibility that something he might say or do in his case would prejudice the judge in the Bustamante case.

Judge Joyce reassigned the Olten Case to Judge Jon Beetem.


I wonder if he might know more than authorities/lawyers do regarding Alyssa's case. Otherwise I don't see why he would be so paranoid about getting a new judge. Just a thought.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on May 07, 2010, 03:12:14 PM


BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on May 11, 2010, 04:31:21 PM
Teen murder suspect can't continue classes     ::MonkeyGavel::
Posted: 05.11.2010 at 2:55 PM

A judge has denied a request for a central Missouri teenager to continue her education while awaiting trial for the killing of her 9-year-old neighbor.

Sixteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder in last October's killing of Elizabeth Olten, whose body was found just west of Jefferson City. The teen's lawyers had requested that the Cole County Sheriff's Office pay for Bustamante to continue her education through a distance learning program.

Cole County Judge Patricia Joyce denied that request Tuesday. But Joyce did allow defense lawyers to file certain court motions that would not be available to prosecutors or the public.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty and is in jail without bond.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=455504

FUBiotch .... Elizabeth didn't get to continue her education...did she? Rot in jail and die of boredom, useless waste of oxygen that you are. They should  ::MonkeyHang:: you now and quit wasting time and money...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on May 11, 2010, 04:46:00 PM
lol Nut, you are fast!!   ::MonkeyKiss::

and I agree.. elizabeth didn't get to continue her education, so neither should alyssa. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on May 11, 2010, 04:47:44 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on May 22, 2010, 01:07:43 AM
Hmmm.. well I know we talked about this being a possibility before, just haven't read if it was a fact or not, that Alyssa was a juggalette.  At the following link, they say a bit, then link readers to the CBS article.  I found the title interesting, (bolded below), the bit they do say, and the 200+ comments following that.  It appears that some Juggalos/Juggalettes were caught by surprise by this news.  Some deny that Alyssa is a "Lette", some are convinced that she is. 

Interesting to read what they feel about this case.  Most are angry that someone could take the life of an innocent child.  Many feel this case is giving Juggalos/Juggalettes a bad rep.  Interesting reading, if you don't mind wading thru the lack of spell check and bad language incl F bombs.   


~~~

Juggalette Accused in Murder of 9 Year Old

Written by Tears of a Killer   
Monday, 23 November 2009
Juggalonews

"Man, this is a new one for me. I can recall many a murder where the main focus was painted faces but this is the first one involving a Lette I've heard of.

Remmeber Juggalos, shes only accused of the murder. lets reserve all jdugement and namecalling until the verdict is in so to speak."


http://www.juggalonews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1884 (http://www.juggalonews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1884)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on July 07, 2010, 06:22:12 PM
The juvenile court could make a decision today or tomorrow on what the future holds for a twelve year old Kaiser boy accused in a double homicide.
Monday night just before midnight Osage Beach Police were called to the Palace Lane Mobile Home Park in Kaiser. A twelve year old boy apparently called his grandmother and then called 911 after shooting and killing his mom and step dad. Reports say the adults had several gunshot wounds each.

Lake Sun Reporter Rance Burger said on the Tuesday 411 that a decision on the boy’s fate could come at any time.

“As of right now there are no charges filed in the case. The twelve year old boy is being held on what’s called a temporary authorization for detention and that can last up to twenty-four hours, at which point, either charges will be filed or he will have a juvenile hearing,” said Burger.

Back in February fifteen year old Alyssa Bustamante of Cole County was accused in the death of nine year old Elizabeth Olten of Cole County. Burger says that case has set some precedents when it comes to murder and juveniles.

“Now we’ve got a case in Kaiser, Missouri, where a juvenile between the age of twelve and seventeen, he’s on the bottom end of that range to be tried as an adult. He could ultimately face what would be class A felony charges if he’s tried as an adult.”

The Miller County Sheriff’s Department is in charge of the investigation. No names have been released for the victims.


http://www.krmsradio.com/2010/07/07/burger-details-double-homicide/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on July 28, 2010, 05:15:35 PM
Hearing set in Mo. teen's murder case

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - Attorneys are scheduled to be back in a mid-Missouri courtroom for the case of a teenager accused of killing her 9-year-old neighbor last October.

A hearing is scheduled Tuesday afternoon for an update on the status of the trial for 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, charged as an adult with first-degree murder for the killing of Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty and is in jail without bond.

Authorities say Bustamante dug two holes several days before the slaying and confessed to police that she killed Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone.

Law officers say that Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body in a wooded area west of Jefferson City.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12874481


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on July 28, 2010, 05:20:02 PM
     
Judge stands by decision in Bustamante case (with video)

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 6:28 p.m.

Cole County Judge Pat Joyce has set a May 16, 2011 trial date for a teenage murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante.

Bustamante is accused of murdering 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten, last October.

Joyce also stood by her earlier decision that the county has no obligation to provide Bustamante with education services while she awaits trial in jail.

The motion was already rejected, but Bustamante’s attorneys apparently wanted a better court record of the issue of whether someone must provide the teenager with an education behind bars.

Attorneys believe state law requires that Bustamante continue her education.

However, the Jefferson City School District feels its obligation ended when Bustmante was certified to stand trial as an adult, was charged with first-degree murder, and was sent to jail. At that point, she was formally expelled from Jefferson City High School in accordance with the “Safe Schools” Act.

So, whose responsibility is it to educate Bustamante?

"That's a good question,” Jefferson City Public School's Secondary Education Director Myron Graber testified.  “I mean, it's out of our hands at that point in time. So, it would either be a parental responsibility, or some other agency.”

Defense lawyers think it falls to Cole County Sheriff Greg White, who has custody of Bustamante as she awaits trial.

"I don't see in statute anywhere where a sheriff is responsible for the continuing education of anyone placed in their custody,” White tesified.

The lawyers think their client should have access to the internet at the county's expense. White said he and the sheriff of Morgan County, where Bustamante is now held, made arrangements for access to general education diploma materials and that's where they draw the line.

"So, she's being treated like any other inmate, with no special treatment," Cole County Mark Richardson asked White.

“Yes,” replied White.

Judge Joyce scheduled another status hearing in the Bustamante case for Oct. 19.

Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 3:10 p.m.

Cole County Judge Pat Joyce set another status hearing for Oct. 19, 2010 for 1:30 p.m.

See the case entry notice

Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 2:12 p.m.

Alyssa Bustamante’s trial has been set for May 16, 2011.

Defense attorneys were trying to sway Joyce’s previous decision to not let Bustamante continue her education with additional testimony.

The defense called two witnesses, Jefferson City Public School's Secondary Education Director Myron Graber and Cole County Sheriff Greg White.

White said that it is “not my responsibility” to provide Bustamante with an education while she is in jail.

According to the “Safe School” rule, after a student is charged with a crime, they are expelled from school. Graber said that since she is not a student with the school district, they are not required to provide her education.

Judge Pat Joyce is talking to lawyers from both sides behind closed doors.

Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 1:30 p.m.

Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson and Alyssa Bustamante’s public defenders are in court Tuesday afternoon for a status hearing.

Bustamante’s defense team will be calling witnesses to testify, including Cole County Sheriff Greg White.

Bustamante’s grandmother was also seen entering the court room, no word if she will be testifying.

Two months ago, Bustamante’s attorneys filed three motions, two of which Cole County Judge Pat Joyce granted. Attorneys filed motions so that Bustamante could wear regular clothes at the trial and to file future motions ex-parte and under seal.

Joyce did not grant the motion for Bustamante to finish her high school education as she waits for trial.

Original Story:

A hearing is scheduled Tuesday afternoon for an update on the status of the trial for 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, charged as an adult with first-degree murder for the killing of Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty and is in jail without bond.

Authorities say Bustamante dug two holes several days before the slaying and confessed to police that she killed Olten because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=488170

 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on July 28, 2010, 05:21:08 PM
JEFFERSON CITY > Trial is set for teen

A judge decided Tuesday that Alyssa Bustamante, 16, will stand trial May 16 on a first-degree murder charge in the slaying last fall of a 9-year-old neighbor in St. Martins, a rural area just west of Jefferson City.

Bustamante will be tried as an adult in the killing of Elizabeth Olten.

Authorities said Bustamante dug two holes several days before the killing and confessed that she killed Elizabeth to know what it was like to kill someone.

Police said Bustamante had led them to Elizabeth's body. Bustamante, has pleaded not guilty.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_563656c8-9a06-11df-bb29-0017a4a78c22.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on July 28, 2010, 05:22:47 PM
BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on August 14, 2010, 10:35:55 PM
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=488170    
Judge stands by decision in Bustamante case
July 27, 2010

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 6:28 p.m.

Cole County Judge Pat Joyce has set a May 16, 2011 trial date for a teenage murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante.

Bustamante is accused of murdering 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten, last October.

Joyce also stood by her earlier decision that the county has no obligation to provide Bustamante with education services while she awaits trial in jail.

The motion was already rejected, but Bustamante’s attorneys apparently wanted a better court record of the issue of whether someone must provide the teenager with an education behind bars.

Attorneys believe state law requires that Bustamante continue her education.

However, the Jefferson City School District feels its obligation ended when Bustmante was certified to stand trial as an adult, was charged with first-degree murder, and was sent to jail. At that point, she was formally expelled from Jefferson City High School in accordance with the “Safe Schools” Act.

So, whose responsibility is it to educate Bustamante?

"That's a good question,” Jefferson City Public School's Secondary Education Director Myron Graber testified.  “I mean, it's out of our hands at that point in time. So, it would either be a parental responsibility, or some other agency.”

Defense lawyers think it falls to Cole County Sheriff Greg White, who has custody of Bustamante as she awaits trial.

"I don't see in statute anywhere where a sheriff is responsible for the continuing education of anyone placed in their custody,” White tesified.

The lawyers think their client should have access to the internet at the county's expense. White said he and the sheriff of Morgan County, where Bustamante is now held, made arrangements for access to general education diploma materials and that's where they draw the line.

"So, she's being treated like any other inmate, with no special treatment," Cole County Mark Richardson asked White.

“Yes,” replied White.

Judge Joyce scheduled another status hearing in the Bustamante case for Oct. 19.

Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 3:10 p.m.

Cole County Judge Pat Joyce set another status hearing for Oct. 19, 2010 for 1:30 p.m.

See the case entry notice

Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 2:12 p.m.

Alyssa Bustamante’s trial has been set for May 16, 2011.

Defense attorneys were trying to sway Joyce’s previous decision to not let Bustamante continue her education with additional testimony.

The defense called two witnesses, Jefferson City Public School's Secondary Education Director Myron Graber and Cole County Sheriff Greg White.

White said that it is “not my responsibility” to provide Bustamante with an education while she is in jail.

According to the “Safe School” rule, after a student is charged with a crime, they are expelled from school. Graber said that since she is not a student with the school district, they are not required to provide her education.

Judge Pat Joyce is talking to lawyers from both sides behind closed doors.

Update: Tuesday, July 27 at 1:30 p.m.

Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson and Alyssa Bustamante’s public defenders are in court Tuesday afternoon for a status hearing.

Bustamante’s defense team will be calling witnesses to testify, including Cole County Sheriff Greg White.

Bustamante’s grandmother was also seen entering the court room, no word if she will be testifying.

Two months ago, Bustamante’s attorneys filed three motions, two of which Cole County Judge Pat Joyce granted. Attorneys filed motions so that Bustamante could wear regular clothes at the trial and to file future motions ex-parte and under seal.

Joyce did not grant the motion for Bustamante to finish her high school education as she waits for trial.

Original Story:

A hearing is scheduled Tuesday afternoon for an update on the status of the trial for 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, charged as an adult with first-degree murder for the killing of Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty and is in jail without bond.

Authorities say Bustamante dug two holes several days before the slaying and confessed to police that she killed Olten because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on August 23, 2010, 09:59:33 PM
http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13030170
Mo. teen murder suspect can't continue education
August 23, 2010

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A Missouri judge has again denied a request to let a teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old neighbor continue her education while awaiting trial.
(snip)
Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce on Monday denied the request. Authorities say Bustaante has the same access to education books as other inmates.

It's the second time Bustamante's request has been turned down.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: yuknomenot on August 31, 2010, 03:03:50 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/30/2188124/dna-test-sought-on-knife-in-9.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/30/2188124/dna-test-sought-on-knife-in-9.html)

JEFFERSON CITY | A prosecutor wants to conduct DNA testing on a knife and clothing taken as evidence in the slaying of a 9-year-old girl near Jefferson City.

Court documents released Monday in the murder case against 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante reveal authorities seized the knife and jeans as evidence in last October's slaying of Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante's attorneys said Monday that they could not say whether the evidence was taken from their client. Bustamante has pleaded not guilty.

Documents reveal a court hearing was held Aug. 5 by telephone to discuss the DNA testing. Prosecutors want to do tests even though they would consume the full sample, leaving nothing for defense attorneys to independently test.

Defense attorneys have asked to be present for the DNA testing.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on August 31, 2010, 12:37:02 PM


BLOCKED WEBSITE


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on September 08, 2010, 06:10:49 PM
Accused Mo. teen killer raises education request


JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A state appeals court will consider whether a central Missouri teenager should be allowed to continue her education while awaiting trial on a charge of murdering her 9-year-old neighbor.

The Western District appeals court agreed Wednesday to accept written arguments on the request from attorneys for 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante.

A Cole County judge has twice denied requests to let Bustamante enroll in a distance learning program from jail to complete her high school degree.

Bustamante is being tried as an adult. She has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder for the October slaying of Elizabeth Olten.

Law officers say Bustamante confessed in a police interview and led them to Olten's body in a wooded area west of Jefferson City.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13118551


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on September 29, 2010, 12:24:57 PM
Appeals court denies Bustamante education request

This is the third time request has been denied

JEFFERSON CITY, MO --
Another setback for the attorneys for teenage murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante.

Bustamante's request for continued education has been denied for the third time.

This time, the Missouri Western District Court of Appeals denied the request to allow the 16-year-old to continue her education while waiting for trial on murder charges.

Cole County Judge Pat Joyce has twice denied requests to let Bustamante enroll in a distance learning program from jail to complete her high school degree.

Cole County Sheriff Greg White has argued in court that it is not his department's job to further a prisoner's education.

Bustamante is being tried as an adult on charges of first degree murder in the fall 2009 death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=517583


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on September 29, 2010, 12:25:49 PM

Teen accused of murder denied request for school


JEFFERSON CITY | A Missouri appeals court has denied a request to let a teenager continue her education while waiting to be tried on charges of killing a 9-year-old girl.

The ruling last week by the Missouri Court of Appeals' Western District marked the third defeat on the schooling issue for 16-year-old Alyssa Bustamante.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty to adult charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in last October's killing of Elizabeth Olten. The fourth-grader and Bustamante were neighbors in the small town of St. Martins, near Jefferson City.

Bustamante remains jailed. Her lawyers want a court to let her finish high school through a distance learning program.

Authorities say Bustamante confessed to police and led them to Elizabeth's body in a wooded area west of Jefferson City.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/09/27/2256315/teen-accused-of-murder-denied.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on September 29, 2010, 12:27:17 PM
No School in Jail for Accused Killer

    JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (CN) - A state appeals court denied the request of a 16-year-old accused murderer who wants to continue her education in prison while she awaits trial. Alyssa Bustamante, 16, is charged with killing her neighbor, 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, in October 2009.
     Police say Bustamante confessed to the crime and led them to Olten's body in a wooded area outside of the small town of St. Martins, 10 miles west of Jefferson City.
     Bustamante pleaded not guilty to adult charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action. She remains jailed and her attorneys sought to have her finish her high school education through a distance learning program.
     The Missouri Court of Appeals Western District's ruling is the third time Bustamante's lawyers have been defeated on the education issue. Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce had twice denied such requests. Cole County Sheriff Greg White argued in court that it is not his department's job to further a prisoner's education.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/09/29/30649.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Deenie on October 13, 2010, 12:19:10 AM
http://www.kspr.com/news/local/sns-ap-mo--missourigirl-slain,0,794877.story


Prosecutor contends Mo. teenage murder suspect has no right to free schooling while in jail

Oct 12, 2010

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A prosecutor says a central Missouri teenager facing an adult murder charge should not qualify to receive a free education in jail.

Attorneys for 16-year-old Alysssa Bustamante want the Missouri Supreme Court to direct authorities to provide her access to school materials while she awaits trial for the slaying of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante was 15 at the time of the October 2009 killing near Jefferson City. She has pleaded not guilty.

Cole County prosecutor Mark Richardson filed Supreme Court papers Tuesday saying that Bustamante no longer is a juvenile, because she has been certified to stand trial as an adult. He also cited a law saying that children facing adult criminal charges cannot be enrolled in public school.

Justice for Elizabeth, its coming honey ..its been way too long.

 ::MonkeyHeart::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 14, 2010, 04:08:20 AM
http://www.kspr.com/news/local/sns-ap-mo--missourigirl-slain,0,794877.story


Prosecutor contends Mo. teenage murder suspect has no right to free schooling while in jail

Oct 12, 2010

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A prosecutor says a central Missouri teenager facing an adult murder charge should not qualify to receive a free education in jail.

Attorneys for 16-year-old Alysssa Bustamante want the Missouri Supreme Court to direct authorities to provide her access to school materials while she awaits trial for the slaying of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante was 15 at the time of the October 2009 killing near Jefferson City. She has pleaded not guilty.

Cole County prosecutor Mark Richardson filed Supreme Court papers Tuesday saying that Bustamante no longer is a juvenile, because she has been certified to stand trial as an adult. He also cited a law saying that children facing adult criminal charges cannot be enrolled in public school.

Justice for Elizabeth, its coming honey ..its been way too long.

 ::MonkeyHeart::

She is at the Supreme Court with this.  I am glad the prosecutor is standing up for Elizabeth.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 01:47:07 AM
Followup: Koster Says Bustamante Has Right To Education

(Jefferson City, MO) -- Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster has weighed-in on the question of whether teenage murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante has the right to schooling while in jail.

Koster said "yes", those awaiting trial that are of school age do have a constitutional right to an education.

The Missouri Supreme Court asked for Koster's opinion after Bustamante's attorneys asked the court to allow the 16-year-old to enroll in a distance learning program from jail to complete her high school degree.

Cole County Judge Pat Joyce has twice denied the request and the Missouri Western District Court also rejected the request.

In Koster's opinion, he writes that just because Bustamante has been certified to stand trial as an adult, does not make her an adult in other considerations.

However, Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson said in the response that Bustamante has been certified as an adult and is not in custody of the state because minors are in someone's custody, not adults.

Cole County Sheriff Greg White has argued in court that it is not his department's job to further a prisoner's education.


Bustamante is being tried as an adult on charges of first degree murder in the Fall 2009 death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=341926


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 01:48:18 AM

Missouri AG urges education for teen murder defendant

JEFFERSON CITY | Missouri's attorney general says a 16-year-old girl accused of killing a young neighbor has a right to be educated while awaiting trial.

Alyssa Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder in last October's death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten near Jefferson City.

A defense lawyer has asked the Missouri Supreme Court to order the Cole County sheriff to let Bustamante continue her education while she remains jailed.

The office of Attorney General Chris Koster filed a brief Monday saying Missouri's laws and constitution guarantee a free public education to all children — even those expelled from school or convicted of a crime.

The sheriff says Bustamante has access to GED materials like other inmates.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/18/2327118/missouri-ag-urges-education-for.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 01:50:04 AM
Missouri teen murder suspect wants personal items back


JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- Attorneys for a 16-year-old teen accused of killing a neighbor girl want prosecutors to return letters, cards and other personal property.

Alyssa Bustamante is charged as an adult with first-degree murder in the October 2009 death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten near Jefferson City. Prosecutors say Bustamante told police she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. She has pleaded not guilty.

Bustamante's lawyers asked Tuesday that letters, cards and notes be given to a family member so they do not appear in public or on the Internet. The clothing was requested for court appearances.

Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson said investigators still are reviewing the items to determine if they contain evidence.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Missouri-teen-murder-suspect-wants-personal-items-back-105273978.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 01:53:13 AM
Defendants Ask for Personal Property in Bustamante Case

JEFFERSON CITY - Alyssa Bustamante's lawyers were in Cole County Circuit Court today for a status hearing. Her attorneys asked the State of Missouri to release Bustamante's personal letters and documents to her family.  Prosecuting Attorney Mark Richardson says he's still going through these documents. Both parties and Judge Patricia Joyce agreed to a Dec. 2 meeting. Neither Alyssa Bustamante nor her attorneys were in court today. Bustamante is charged with last year's murder of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten. She has pleaded not guilty. Bustamante's trial is set to begin in May, though another court case involving the teenager will be decided much sooner. Bustamante's lawyers want the Supreme Court of Missouri to order the Cole County Sheriff to let Bustamante continue her education.  The Missouri Prosecuting Attorney's office filed a motion Tuesday evening saying, however, the Cole County Sheriffs Office is not responsible for her education. Today the judge said the Supreme Court's decision would not affect the May start date for the trial.

http://www.komu.com/KOMU/d7e2017e-80ce-18b5-00fa-0004d8d229cb/c549006f-80ce-18b5-0109-81f385e0859a.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 01:54:09 AM
10/19 Bustamante Filings

http://www.scribd.com/doc/39684183/10-19-Bustamante-Filings


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 01:57:56 AM
Missouri AG Defends Rights of Accused Killer

  JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (CN) - The Missouri Attorney General says a jailed 16-year-old girl accused of murder is entitled to a free education. Attorney General Chris Koster filed a brief with the Missouri Supreme Court on Tuesday, saying Alyssa Bustamante can be educated with something as simple as a laptop computer.
     Bustamante is in the Cole County jail awaiting trial for the murder of her neighbor, 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten. Prosecutors claim Bustamante killed Olten because she wanted to know how it felt to kill someone.
     Bustamante is to be tried as an adult.
     Cole County Sheriff Greg White argued that Bustamante has the same educational access to GED materials that other adult prisoners do.
     Bustamante's attorneys have been rebuffed three times in an attempt to further her education - twice in Cole County Circuit Court and once in the Missouri Court of Appeals.
     Olten's body was found in a wooded area outside of St. Martin's, Mo., 10 miles west of Jefferson City.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/10/20/31207.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 01:59:04 AM
Update: Family, friends honor murder victim at memorial

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. --  Update: Thrusday, Oct. 21 at 8:21 p.m.

Thursday marked the one year anniversary of Elizabeth's death. It was a somber event at Jefferson City's Concord Baptist Church. Elizabeth's mom took the stage and gave a tearful speech. Family members wore pink t-shirts that said "our precious angel". Dozens of supporters filed in throughout the serivce, at one point everyone joined hands and gathered in front of the sanctuary for a prayer.

A family spokesperson told us, the day was all about Elizabeth, "I'm afraid that she will be forgotten, and we don't want that, we want to remember her. We want to remember the little girl with the smile at that play that was a happy normal child. That was important to our world, that's gone, and we don't want her forgotten an and that's what matters to us. And this is paying tribute to her memory and who she was."




Update: Thrusday, Oct. 21 at 6:18 p.m.

More than a 100 people came to the public memorial service the family of 9-year-old murder victim Elizabeth Olten held at the Concord Baptist Church.

The family said the event Thursday was all about Elizabeth.

Elizabeth’s family wore pink t-shirts that had a picture of Elizabeth with the words “Precious Angel” on them.

Original Story:

Thursday marks the first anniversary of the murder of 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten of St. Martins.

Her family is holding a public memorial service.

A candlelight prayer vigil will start at 5 p.m. Thursday, Oct. 21 at Concord Baptist Church, 3724 West Truman Blvd. in Jefferson City.

The gathering will then move to Hawthorne Cemetery at 4205 Hwy 50 West for a balloon release.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=529055


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 02:00:04 AM
Memorial honors slain 9-year-old Mo. girl

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A memorial service to remember a 9-year-old Missouri girl is taking place on the 1-year anniversary of her death, allegedly at the hands of a teenage neighbor.

Fourth-grader Elizabeth Olten disappeared Oct. 21, 2009, while walking home from a friend's house in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City. Her body was found in a wooded area near her home.

Thursday's memorial was set for 5 p.m. at Jefferson City's Concord Baptist Church, where the funeral was held last year. The memorial is to involve a prayer service, candle lighting and the release of balloons.

Sixteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante has pleaded not guilty to an adult charge of first-degree murder in the death. Bustamante remains jailed without bail awaiting trial.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13362074


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 02:01:34 AM
1 year later: Elizabeth Olten's death not forgotten (with video)

It was a crime that devastated the local community while drawing a national spotlight to the heart of Missouri.

It unfolded around dinner time on Oct. 21, 2009; a call came in from a family desperately looking for a missing child.  By the following day, a full scale manhunt was underway for 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

"What we're endeavoring to do is find a young lady very much alive and reunite here with her family,” Cole County Sheriff Greg White said on Oct. 22.

Hundreds of volunteers turned out in the rain that Thursday to help in the search

By this point, family clearly was frantic, already fearing the worst.

"She does not deserve this,” Elizabeth’s Aunt Vicki Olten said on Oct. 22, 2009. “Her family does not deserve this.”

By Friday, Oct. 23, 2009, investigators had already been pointed in direction of a suspect in Elizabeth’s disappearance. That evening, the suspect had lead them to Elizabeth’s body in a hand-dug grave in the woods near her home.

MORE...

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=529414


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 02:02:46 AM
Family, Friends Remember Elizabeth Olten 1 Year Later (with video)

COLUMBIA - Family and friends remembered the life of deceased St. Martins 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten Thursday afternoon.

The ceremony started at 5 p.m at Concord Baptist Church in Jefferson City.

The ceremony was a simple service consisting of prayer and stories about Olten.

Then, at 5:30 p.m., the family went to a nearby cemetery to release balloons in her honor. Olten went missing one year ago today. 

Teenager Alyssa Bustamante is charged with her murder. She has pleaded not guilty.

Concord Baptist Church Senior Pastor Monte Shinkle said before the ceremony it would be an emotional time for the family.

"We just want to remember her for the great little girl that she was and the life that she lived so we might be able to comfort this family as they continue to walk through this," Shinkle said.

Shinkle said the Olten family originally intended for the ceremony to be a private one for family and friends.  However, it changed its mind after hearing community interest.

"Initially, it started as family and close friends, but obviously other people have learned about it and the family is not going to turn away others who just want to be a part of it," Shinkle said.

http://www.komu.com/KOMU/d7e2017e-80ce-18b5-00fa-0004d8d229cb/d0025382-80ce-18b5-0040-80507239b56a.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 02:03:52 AM
Court dismisses 16-year-old murder suspect's education request


JEFFERSON CITY | The Missouri Supreme Court won't get involved for now in deciding whether a 16-year-old murder suspect may continue her education while awaiting trial.

Alyssa Bustamante is charged as an adult in last October's killing of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten. The two girls were neighbors in a town just outside Jefferson City.

Bustamante wants to continue her high school course work while she's jailed. The Cole County sheriff doesn't want to cover the costs and says Bustamante has access to GED materials like other inmates.

Missouri's high court on Thursday dismissed a motion seeking an order to the sheriff. But the court also said the motion may be refiled.

Bustamante has pleaded not guilty. Her trial is scheduled for next spring.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/21/2340681/court-dismisses-16-year-old-murder.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 02:04:52 AM
Community comes together for anniversary of girl's murder

(http://www.ksdk.com/genthumb/genthumb.ashx?e=3&h=180&w=320&i=/assetpool/images/101021113958_102110_olten.jpg)

http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=222986&catid=3


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 02:06:01 AM
Family, Friends Remember Olten One Year Later  (with video)

JEFFERSON CITY - A community torn apart by a grisly murder last year came together Thursday night to honor Elizabeth Olten. It's a story that captivated the nation exactly one year ago when 9-year-old Olten went missing in St. Martins. Thursday night, more than 50 people filled the pews of Concord Baptist Church not to remember her death, but to remember her life. They say time heals all wounds, but for the family and friends of Olten her death feels like yesterday.

"It's very overwhelming," family friend Pam Cafourek said "It's very hard, everyday is hard. Everyday you get up and she's not with us. We miss her."

Concord Baptist Church senior pastor Monte Shinkle agreed.

"It's been a day by day thing, and a very difficult thing, but I am very thankful that a lot of people have rallied around the family and continue to stand beside them," Shinkle said.

Sixteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is accused of killing Olten one year ago. She has pleaded not guilty. The memorial service was a way for family members, friends, and community members to remember Olten.
"Elizabeth was a very sweet child, she was a very kind loving person, she had a smile that could melt your heart," Cafourek said. "She was your normal child. She laughed, she had hopes, she had dreams. She had her whole world ahead of her until it was taken from her."

The Cafourek family clings to the memories to keep them going.
"Two or three years ago we all went to McDonald's and Delaynee and her brother Anthony switched so Elizabeth was my sister," Hallee Cafourek said. "She was my sister for the day."

Eight-year-old Audrey Cafourek remembered the time she went fishing with Olten.

"She caught a fish. She would stand in this spot, it was like her special spot because she caught like three fish that day," said Audrey Cafourek.

Concord Baptist Church Senior Pastor Monte Shinkle said before the ceremony it would be an emotional time for the family.

"We just want to remember her for the great little girl that she was and the life that she lived so we might be able to comfort this family as they continue to walk through this," Shinkle said.

Shinkle said the Olten family originally intended for the ceremony to be a private one for family and friends.  However, it changed its mind after hearing community interest.


During the vigil, music flowed through the pews and sniffles filled the air. Olten's mother gave a tearful eulogy.

"Even though we're apart for now we know you will be with us forever," her mother said.

The vigil led by Shinkle included a candle lighting, prayer and later a ballon release at the cemetary Olten is buried.

"It's very important to us that everybody remembers her, that she's the victim in this and we do not want her forgotten," Pam Cafourek said. "That's what matters to us."

http://www.komu.com/KOMU/d7e2017e-80ce-18b5-00fa-0004d8d229cb/d1e8edf1-80ce-18b5-014d-c0cdb0f486e3.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 26, 2010, 02:06:46 AM
Young Murder Suspect's Request Rebuffed

    JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (CN) - The Missouri Supreme Court will not get involved in deciding whether a 16-year-old girl accused of murder can continue her education while awaiting trial - for now. The court dismissed a request from Alyssa Bustamante's attorneys, but said the motion could be refiled.
     Bustamante is charged as an adult in the killing of her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten. Prosecutors say Bustamante killed Olten because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody. Bustamante has pleaded not guilty.
     It is the fourth time Bustamante has been rejected in her quest to complete her high school course work while she's jailed awaiting trial.
     Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster filed a brief with the state Supreme Court this month, supporting Bustamante's request. But Cole County Sheriff Greg White said that Bustamante has the same access to GED programs as adult inmates.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/10/25/31318.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 01, 2010, 12:20:24 PM
Father of slain Mo. girl sentenced to prison

  The father of a girl who was killed near Jefferson City has been sentenced to more than 19 years in federal prison for illegal possession of firearms.

The U.S. attorney's office says Dale Olten Sr. was sentenced Thursday to a longer term because he had prior felony convictions. He pleaded guilty in February to being a felon in possession of a firearm and to possessing stolen firearms.

Olten was in prison on a state drug conviction when his 9-year-old daughter, Elizabeth, was killed in October 2009 in the small town of St. Martins near Jefferson City.

Alyssa Bustamante, who was 15 at the time, was charged as an adult with first-degree murder in the death of her young neighbor. Bustamante has pleaded not guilty and faces trial next May.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_97428e16-e35d-11df-a9e2-00127992bc8b.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 24, 2010, 12:32:45 AM
Teen murder suspects stay in adult jails (with video)

Four Mid-Missouri teens are suspects in murder cases.

Alyssa Bustamante, 16, is charged with killing her young neighbor.

Jordan Harvey, 15, is charged with helping his parents kill a man and stuff him in a freezer.

Jordan’s 17-year-old brother, Ethan, has also been arrested in the crime.

A 13-year-old boy from Kaiser, Mo. was committed into the juvenile system Wednesday after he admitted to killing his mother and step-father. (Read more)

These rare situations cast new light on teenagers in the court system.

County jails across Mid-Missouri struggled to deal with young detainees especially when they have to share cells with adult.

Alyssa Bustamante: In jail since Oct. 23, 2009

It's been 13 months since Alyssa Bustamante was charged as an adult with murdering 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten. Since then, Bustamante has been at the Morgan County Jail, under the supervision of Jail Sergeant Cody Worthley. (Read more)

“Once they're certified as an adult they get treated like any other adult we house here,” Jail Sergeant Cody Worthley said. “The only precaution we do, and we do this with anyone that comes in for the 1st time, we monitor them for a few days and make sure they get adjusted."

Alyssa is being held in a cell pod. It's similar to a dorm room with bunk beds for more than 20 other women all living together with no privacy.

“They have phones in there,” Worthley said. “They have games, cards and checkers. They have a TV in there they can watch all day long."

Alyssa also has access to GED books, but a court battle is still going on whether she can take long distance learning courses to finish high school.

Alyssa usually stays in bed, with a blanket over her head said Worthley.

"I think 15, 16 is the youngest we've ever had,” said Worthley. “She's like any other inmate. They just sit there and do their stuff upstairs. And she does keep to herself. Until problems arise, then I'll get concerned about it. But as long as everyone is on their best behavior up there, then I have no concern for them."

Worthley said Alyssa has never caused a problem.

Psychologist Dr. Colin Duggan, who has worked with adolescents in the correctional system, said teens in adult jails is a delicate situation and it needs to be looked at case by case when dealing with a defendants' mental health.

“Hypothetically, a child thrown into an environment like that could suffer consequences: not learning to deal with stress appropriately, learning how to contain  their impulses, acting out violently,” Duggan said.

MORE.....

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?list=366949&id=543290
 



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on November 24, 2010, 07:04:43 AM
Teen murder suspects stay in adult jails (with video)

Four Mid-Missouri teens are suspects in murder cases.

Alyssa Bustamante, 16, is charged with killing her young neighbor.

Jordan Harvey, 15, is charged with helping his parents kill a man and stuff him in a freezer.

Jordan’s 17-year-old brother, Ethan, has also been arrested in the crime.

A 13-year-old boy from Kaiser, Mo. was committed into the juvenile system Wednesday after he admitted to killing his mother and step-father. (Read more)

These rare situations cast new light on teenagers in the court system.

County jails across Mid-Missouri struggled to deal with young detainees especially when they have to share cells with adult.

Alyssa Bustamante: In jail since Oct. 23, 2009

It's been 13 months since Alyssa Bustamante was charged as an adult with murdering 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten. Since then, Bustamante has been at the Morgan County Jail, under the supervision of Jail Sergeant Cody Worthley. (Read more)

“Once they're certified as an adult they get treated like any other adult we house here,” Jail Sergeant Cody Worthley said. “The only precaution we do, and we do this with anyone that comes in for the 1st time, we monitor them for a few days and make sure they get adjusted."

Alyssa is being held in a cell pod. It's similar to a dorm room with bunk beds for more than 20 other women all living together with no privacy.

“They have phones in there,” Worthley said. “They have games, cards and checkers. They have a TV in there they can watch all day long."

Alyssa also has access to GED books, but a court battle is still going on whether she can take long distance learning courses to finish high school.

Alyssa usually stays in bed, with a blanket over her head said Worthley.

"I think 15, 16 is the youngest we've ever had,” said Worthley. “She's like any other inmate. They just sit there and do their stuff upstairs. And she does keep to herself. Until problems arise, then I'll get concerned about it. But as long as everyone is on their best behavior up there, then I have no concern for them."

Worthley said Alyssa has never caused a problem.

Psychologist Dr. Colin Duggan, who has worked with adolescents in the correctional system, said teens in adult jails is a delicate situation and it needs to be looked at case by case when dealing with a defendants' mental health.

“Hypothetically, a child thrown into an environment like that could suffer consequences: not learning to deal with stress appropriately, learning how to contain  their impulses, acting out violently,” Duggan said.

MORE.....

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?list=366949&id=543290
 

"acting out violently" . . . can't blame the prison environment . . .


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 10, 2010, 09:39:37 PM
Judge to prosecutor: hand over letters, cards, clothes, makeup to Bustamante defense

Defense counsel for accused child murderer Alyssa Bustamante is asking for her clothes and other personal affects, but the prosecution holds out.

Defense attorneys for Alyssa Bustamante, the central Missouri teen accused of killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, are asking for bags of her clothes, makeup, and a stack of her letters and cards.

Bustamante lawyer Charles Moreland tells the judge there’s no reason much of Bustamante’s possessions taken in for evidence, such as letters and cards from her father, have no bearing on the case. He says she’ll need the clothes for the upcoming trial. But prosecutor Mark Richardson says anything with Bustamante’s writings need to be held.

Defense Attorney Charles Moreland says she’ll need her clothes for the upcoming trial, and that Christmas cards, birthday cards and other correspondence with her father are not relevant to the case.

Prosecutor Mark Richardson disagrees, saying anything with Bustamante’s writing needs to be held for evidence. Cole County Judge Pat Joyce asked him to make copies and turn them over in 60 days.

The defense has asked previously to have their own experts watch forensics experts conduct tests on DNA samples collected from the scene, but the prosecutor says many of them have already been consumed from testing. Judge Joyce said if there were any samples left over from future testing, they would need to be held for the defense’s own expert.

Bustamante was 15 when she led authorities to a grave holding the body of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, who died from stab wounds, strangulation and a slashed throat.

Olten’s family members were in the court room. They’ve appeared at every hearing since her death wearing t-shirts with Elizabeth’s picture on them

(http://www.missourinet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Olten-family-300x213.jpg)

http://www.missourinet.com/2010/12/03/judge-to-prosecutor-hand-over-letters-cards-clothes-makeup-to-bustamante-defense/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 10, 2010, 09:40:47 PM
Alyssa Bustamante Wants Cards, Clothes Back

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- — Attorneys for a central Missouri teenager accused of killing a 9-year-old neighbor girl say authorities seized birthday and Christmas cards received from the teen's father, as well as eight large bags of her clothes.

Cole County Judge Patricia Joyce on Thursday gave the prosecutor's office 60 days to inventory, copy and determine which items it needs for evidence so the rest can be returned to Alyssa Bustamante. She also denied a defense request to be present during some DNA testing.

Bustamante was 15 years old when she was charged with killing her neighbor, Elizabeth Olten, in October 2009. Police say Bustamante told them she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. Bustamante has pleaded not guilty. Her trial is set for May 16.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-bustamante-personal-items-seized-120310,0,2829754.story


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on December 10, 2010, 09:42:10 PM
Teen murder suspect's lawyers schedule depositions


COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Lawyers for teen murder suspect, Alyssa Bustamante, filed a notice of deposition Wednesday morning.

Bustamante is charged with the first degree murder of her 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten. (Read more)

Bustamante’s attorneys will start depositions Monday, Nov. 29 through Wednesday, Dec. 1.

Attorneys will question law enforcement officials, juvenile court and others.

Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson is invited to attend the depositions.

See the notice of deposition and the list of people who will testify during the depositions
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/15402-alyssa-bustamantes-lawyers-notice-of-depositions.html

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=545762


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Fanny Mae on December 11, 2010, 06:08:16 PM
Thank you, NORTHERN ROSE,for keeping this story active in the thread.  It seems that Elizabeth Olten has been almost forgotten in this horrible tragedy. Alyssa needs her clothes and her cards.   ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Roxie on March 09, 2011, 09:19:24 PM
http://www.colecountycourts.org/courtnews.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: klaasend on March 09, 2011, 10:02:18 PM
http://www.colecountycourts.org/courtnews.htm

Documents Filed:
03-01-11         Subpoena to Appear in Court
03-01-11         Subpoena to Appear in Court
02-24-11         State's Request for Discovery
02-18-11         Motion to Suppress hearing is scheduled for March 16, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.
02-18-11         Order regarding Media Guidelines
02-18-11         Jury trial originally scheduled for May 16, 2011 has been rescheduled to June 1, 2011 in Greene County.
02-17-11         Judge's Docket Entry
02-17-11         Suggestions Regarding Media
02-17-11         Defendant's Request to Establish Media Guidelines
02-17-11         State's Response to Motion to Declare 565.020.2 RSMo Unconstitutional
02-17-11         Motion to Declare 565.020.2 RSMo Unconstitutional


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on April 03, 2011, 07:34:29 PM
http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=420686
Bustamante's Defense Prepares For Murder Trial
March 11, 2011
(http://ozarksfirst.com/images/Multi_Media/ozarksfirst/nxd_media/img/jpg/2010_02/416f9f8c-351e-ee14-e5b8-a0eebd80642b//220x165.jpg)

Jefferson City, MO) -- Defense attorneys for teenage murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante released more information Friday about their preparations for trial.

Bustamante, 17, is charged with 1st degree murder in the stabbing and strangulation death of her 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante's defense team has disclosed to the prosecution its list of witnesses who could be called to testify during the trial. Public Defender Donald Catlett said the list could be added to and declined to say how many witnesses are on the list.

The defense team also told prosecutors it has 11 extra pieces of evidence that could include books, papers, photographs and other objects that could be introduced at trial.

This is evidence that was not included in the prosecution's discovery. The defense team has invited to prosecution to inspect, test, copy or photograph the evidence.

Depositions are scheduled March 16th in the case. The prosecution has asked Highway Patrol Investigator David Rice and Tobie Meyer of the Prenger Family Center in Jefferson City to testify.
 ::snipping2::
The trial is scheduled for June in Cole County with a jury being brought in from Springfield.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on April 03, 2011, 07:37:29 PM
http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=425006
Video
Bustamante Attorneys Want to Keep Statements from Murder Trial
March 19, 2011

(Jefferson City, MO) -- Attorneys for Alyssa Bustamante want to keep statements made by Bustamante from being used during her trial.

Her attorneys met with a Cole County judge in a close-door hearing earlier this week and asked to suppress statements she made to investigators.

The motion to suppress stated Bustamante's statements were not made voluntarily and that she was subjected to mental and physical duress prior to and during her investigation.

Attorney's also said her statements were made before she was advised of her constitutional Miranda Rights.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on April 03, 2011, 07:40:06 PM
http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-missouri-teenage-murder-suspect-trial-31811,0,2615985.story
Missouri Teen Murder Suspect Wants To Keep Confessed Statements Out Of Trial
Alyssa Bustamante Confessed to Killing 9- Year-Old Ashley Olten
March 18, 2011

(http://*BLOCKED*/media/alternatethumbnails/story/2011-03/60239518-18162411.jpeg)
 ::snipping2::
Police say Alyssa Bustamante was 15 -year- old when she killed 9 -year-old Ashley Olten just west of Jefferson city. Investigators say Bustamante confessed to killing Olten and led them to her well-concealed body in the woods.

Defense attorney's want to keep those statements out of her trial.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on April 03, 2011, 07:44:44 PM
*BLOCKED*/media/alternatethumbnails/story/2011-03/60239518-18162411.jpeg
Supreme Court affirms lower court ruling for jury in Bustamante trial
March 29, 2011

JEFFERSON CITY, MO -- On Tuesday, the Missouri Supreme Court affirmed a lower court's ruling that the jury be imported for Alyssa Bustamante's trial.
 ::snipping2::
Lawyers for the defendent previously requested a change of venue for the trial, saying it would be impossible to get a fair trial in Cole County. Judge Patricia Joyce decided that instead of taking the trial elsewhere, the jury would be brought in from another county.
 ::snipping2::
When she made her decision, Joyce said moving the trial would be a burder to the family of Elizabeth Olten, the 9-year-old murder victim. She also said it would be cumbersome to transfer the dozens of witnesses and court personnel to a different location.
 ::snipping2::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: SuzieQ on April 13, 2011, 10:44:45 PM
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/254596/3/Bustamante-murder-trial-delayed-until-September

Alyssa Bustamante murder trial delayed until September

JEFFERSON CITY, MO (AP) - The trial of a central Missouri teenager charged with killing a young neighbor has been delayed until September.

Seventeen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante had been scheduled for trial June 1 on a charge of murdering 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten in rural Cole County.

A judge rescheduled the trial Wednesday for Sept. 13 at the request of defense lawyers, who said they needed more time to prepare. Prosecutors had opposed the delay.

 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on April 19, 2011, 11:00:13 AM
Bustamante trial continued to Sept. 12

http://www.missourinet.com/2011/04/13/bustamante-trial-continued-to-sept-12/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on April 19, 2011, 11:01:53 AM
Bustamante Murder Trial Pushed To September
Jefferson City, MO) -- The trial of Alyssa Bustamante has been pushed to September.


The 16-year-old from St. Martins, Missouri, is charged with First Degree Murder in the death of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten in 2009.

She pleaded not guilty and was originally set to go to trial this summer.

Defense attorneys for Bustamante cited another trial as one of the main reasons they requested a continuance from the previously set June 1 trial date.

Bustamante's primary defense attorneys, Charlie Moreland, is representing another first degree murder case in Joplin. The trial in Joplin began earlier this month, but a situation caused the trial to last longer than expected.

 ::snipping2::

http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=437856


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 01, 2011, 09:31:53 PM

BLOCKED WEBSITE



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Wyks on June 10, 2011, 01:44:57 AM

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Missing-or-Found/elizabeth-olten.jpg)



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on August 10, 2011, 10:51:40 PM
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=649278

Bustamante transferred to new Cole County Jail
by Meghan Lane
Posted: 08.08.2011 at 3:46 PM
Updated: 08.09.2011 at 10:55 AM
 
 ::snipping2::

JEFFERSON CITY, MO. -- The new state of the art Cole County Jail is now home to inmates, including 17-year-old Alyssa Bustamante.

Transport vans moved all of them from the old jail to the new one yesterday afternoon.

Alyssa Bustamante is charged with the first degree murder of 9-year old Elizabeth Olten in 2009.

She was 15 when officers arrested her and that had everything to do with why she wasn't kept in Cole County.

Bustamante stayed in the Morgan County Jail for nearly two years since the Morgan County Jail was better equipped to handle the teenager, but now she's back in the county where she's accused of committing the crime.

 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on August 18, 2011, 10:49:00 PM
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=653237

Bustamante's right to fair trial in jeopardy, defense attorneys say
by Ladd Egan
Posted: 08.18.2011 at 4:27 PM

JEFFERSON CITY, MO -- Alyssa Bustamante's trial could be in jeopardy even before it begins, according to her attorneys.

Having already been pushed back once, Bustamante's trial is scheduled for Sept. 13th on charges of 1st degree murder and armed criminal action in the October 2009 stabbing and strangulation death of her 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten.

In court documents filed on Tuesday, the 17-year-old's defense team argues that Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson has ignored a request for discovery and failed to turn over the names of  witnesses he plans to call at trial.

 ::snipping2::

It was Sgt. Rice who initially questioned Bustamante and testified to the grand jury that Bustamante confessed to the slaying and led authorities to Elizabeth's body in the woods west of Jefferson City.

A judge has deemed a large portion of Bustamante's statement made during that videotaped interview as inadmissible in court because a juvenile officer wrongly participated in the questioning and used "deceptive tactics" to get Bustamante to speak.

Bustamante's lawyers have requested to meet with Judge Patricia Joyce and the prosecution in a closed hearing on Tuesday, Aug. 23rd, to discuss the motions.

 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on August 25, 2011, 01:42:39 AM
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=654800

Judge delays trial again for teenaged murder suspect
by Ladd Egan
Posted: 08.23.2011 at 10:46 AM

JEFFERSON CITY, MO -- Cole County Circuit Court has confirmed that the trial for murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante has been delayed until early 2012.

The trial has already been pushed back twice: it was first scheduled for May, then June and most recently for Sept. 13th of this year.

Judge Joyce ruled that a pre-trial conference will be held in Cole County on January 9th, 2012 with jury selection beginning on Jan. 10th in Springflied. The Green County jury will then travel to Cole County for the trial.

Joyce said the trial is scheduled to being immediately after jury selection is completed.

 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on October 23, 2011, 10:22:54 PM
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=677450

Remembering Elizabeth Olten two years later
by Meghan Lane
Posted: 10.21.2011

 ::snipping2::

After 45 hours of searching, on Friday, October 23, police got a break in the case, a note, which led them to a suspect, a 15-year-old girl.

The teenager took investigators to a hand-dug grave near her home, which held the fourth grader's body.

That teenager was Elizabeth’s neighbor, Alyssa Bustamante.

A month later, Bustamante was certified to stand trial as an adult for first degree murder.

Authorities said she stabbed and strangled the young girl.

The past two years have been peppered with court hearings and motions to delay the trial.

As of now, the now 17-year-old's trial is set for January 9 at 9 a.m.

In august, jailers transferred Bustamante from the Morgan County Jail to the new state-of-the-art Cole County Jail.
 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on October 26, 2011, 06:30:33 PM
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=677450

Remembering Elizabeth Olten two years later
by Meghan Lane
Posted: 10.21.2011

 ::snipping2::

After 45 hours of searching, on Friday, October 23, police got a break in the case, a note, which led them to a suspect, a 15-year-old girl.

The teenager took investigators to a hand-dug grave near her home, which held the fourth grader's body.

That teenager was Elizabeth’s neighbor, Alyssa Bustamante.

A month later, Bustamante was certified to stand trial as an adult for first degree murder.

Authorities said she stabbed and strangled the young girl.

The past two years have been peppered with court hearings and motions to delay the trial.

As of now, the now 17-year-old's trial is set for January 9 at 9 a.m.

In august, jailers transferred Bustamante from the Morgan County Jail to the new state-of-the-art Cole County Jail.
 

There's a correction on the trial date I found in the comments:

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=677450#.TqiH0HJZrwI

Patty Preiss said: Friday, October 21, 2011
As usual you have it wronge Elizabeth was in the fourth grade and her trial is set for January 10, 2012. The 9th is a status hearing


krcg_editor_stephanie replied: Friday, October 21, 2011
Patty, thanks for the correction. We were citing a previous story that we did where we must have had it wrong. It has been corrected.

krcg_editor_stephanie replied: Friday, October 21, 2011
Also of note, the Case Net scheduled hearing has her jury trial beginning at 9 a.m. on January 9. There is no status hearing scheduled on the docket at all. We'll do some checking next week, but usually Case Net is fairly accurate on hearing dates. Thanks!

Patty Preiss replied: Saturday, October 22, 2011
as Elizabeth's mother I am very aware as to the dates of her trial January 9 is a pre-trial hearing ( status hearing) and january 10 is the start of trial ( jury selection). Your motto for KRCG is where accuracy matters and it may be little details to you but it drives me crazy for you to report something wrong everytime you report something on Elizabeths murder trial.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on October 26, 2011, 10:27:54 PM
Oh, wow.  Her poor mother shouldn't have to be the one to correct the media and the editor looks like a real moron. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on October 26, 2011, 11:06:53 PM
MuffyBee, the article below (dated August 23, 2011) had a more specific/detailed explanation of the proceedings/dates for the trial.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=654800

Judge delays trial again for teenaged murder suspect
by Ladd Egan
Posted: 08.23.2011 at 10:46 AM

JEFFERSON CITY, MO -- Cole County Circuit Court has confirmed that the trial for murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante has been delayed until early 2012.

The trial has already been pushed back twice: it was first scheduled for May, then June and most recently for Sept. 13th of this year.

Judge Joyce ruled that a pre-trial conference will be held in Cole County on January 9th, 2012 with jury selection beginning on Jan. 10th in Springflied. The Green County jury will then travel to Cole County for the trial.

Joyce said the trial is scheduled to being immediately after jury selection is completed.
 ::snipping2::



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on October 26, 2011, 11:30:40 PM
MuffyBee, the article below (dated August 23, 2011) had a more specific/detailed explanation of the proceedings/dates for the trial.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=654800

Judge delays trial again for teenaged murder suspect
by Ladd Egan
Posted: 08.23.2011 at 10:46 AM

JEFFERSON CITY, MO -- Cole County Circuit Court has confirmed that the trial for murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante has been delayed until early 2012.

The trial has already been pushed back twice: it was first scheduled for May, then June and most recently for Sept. 13th of this year.

Judge Joyce ruled that a pre-trial conference will be held in Cole County on January 9th, 2012 with jury selection beginning on Jan. 10th in Springflied. The Green County jury will then travel to Cole County for the trial.

Joyce said the trial is scheduled to being immediately after jury selection is completed.
 ::snipping2::



Thank you grace-land.  I hope justice won't be railroaded.  I'm a bit concerned with the pushing back/rescheduling and delays. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on October 27, 2011, 11:22:48 AM
MuffyBee, the article below (dated August 23, 2011) had a more specific/detailed explanation of the proceedings/dates for the trial.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=654800

Judge delays trial again for teenaged murder suspect
by Ladd Egan
Posted: 08.23.2011 at 10:46 AM

JEFFERSON CITY, MO -- Cole County Circuit Court has confirmed that the trial for murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante has been delayed until early 2012.

The trial has already been pushed back twice: it was first scheduled for May, then June and most recently for Sept. 13th of this year.

Judge Joyce ruled that a pre-trial conference will be held in Cole County on January 9th, 2012 with jury selection beginning on Jan. 10th in Springflied. The Green County jury will then travel to Cole County for the trial.

Joyce said the trial is scheduled to being immediately after jury selection is completed.
 ::snipping2::



Thank you grace-land.  I hope justice won't be railroaded.  I'm a bit concerned with the pushing back/rescheduling and delays. 
Totally agree Muffy Bee.  I have an uneasy feeling about how this will all turn out.  I hope I am so wrong.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on December 23, 2011, 01:41:35 AM
Video at link and a link is included for the judge's order.

http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=576067

Alyssa Bustamante Trial Scheduled in Federal Courthouse
Thursday, December 22 2011

(Jefferson City, MO) -- The murder trial of Alyssa Bustamante, accused of killing a nine-year-old neighbor has been moved to the federal courthouse.

The trial, scheduled to begin Jan. 30, was moved for security concerns, according to an order released on Thursday. The order also cited concerns about rescheduling other cases in the Cole County Courthouse during the trial.

Bustamante is accused of killing Elizabeth Olten, a nine-year-old neighbor. Bustamante, now 17, was 15 when she was charged with stabbing and strangling the younger girl. The girls lived in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City. She's being tried as an adult for the crime.

 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 30, 2011, 01:08:37 PM
Thanks Grace!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: pharlap on December 30, 2011, 02:12:02 PM
I hadn't followed this case.   
Was there a reason to why she killed her?  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on December 30, 2011, 02:32:27 PM
I hadn't followed this case.   
Was there a reason to why she killed her?  ::MonkeyShocked::

If I remember correctly, she just wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.
How sick is that?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: pharlap on December 30, 2011, 02:47:01 PM
I hadn't followed this case.   
Was there a reason to why she killed her?  ::MonkeyShocked::

If I remember correctly, she just wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.
How sick is that?

Omg......she better no EVER get out of jail period!
Maybe she'll meet her match in prison..... ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: labubske on December 30, 2011, 02:53:22 PM
I hadn't followed this case.   
Was there a reason to why she killed her?  ::MonkeyShocked::

If I remember correctly, she just wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.
How sick is that?

She is a very disturbed girl.  I pray that she NEVER EVER gets out of prison.  I don't believe there is any fixing her.  Sister you are right that is why she said that she killed her.

A police officer testified that Bustamante confessed to digging two holes to be used as a grave, then killing Olten five days later without provocation because she wanted to know what it felt like.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5724018-504083.html


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on January 03, 2012, 12:08:33 AM
IMO -- There is one thing that is of great concern for the prosecution in this case--the judge suppressed Bustamante's confession.

http://www.komu.com/news/murder-trial-to-begin-in-jan-for-17-year-old-bustamante-26405/

Murder Trial To Begin in Jan. for 17-Year-Old Bustamante
Posted: Dec 28, 2011 4:48 PM by Meghann Mollerus
Updated: Dec 28, 2011 4:49 PM
 ::snipping2::
In June 2011, the prosecution lost what could have been a crucial piece of evidence in dispelling Bustamante's not-guilty plea. Joyce suppressed Bustamante's confession after determining Juvenile Officer Tobie Meyer participated in the initial Highway Patrol interview of Bustamante and used "deceptive tactics" in encouraging Bustamante to confess to the murder. In the order to suppress the confession, Joyce wrote, Meyer's participation in the interrogation "went far beyond her statutory role as a juvenile officer, which is limited to observation and protection of the juvenile's rights."

Since Bustamante was in juvenile custody at the time of the interrogation, statements disclosed to Meyer were not to be admissible in an adult criminal proceeding. Had Mayer not participated, Bustamante's statements to Highway Patrol Sgt. David Rice could have been valid for use in trial, according to an original assertion in the court order to suppress evidence. At a Nov. 2009 hearing in which Bustamante was certified to stand trial as an adult, Rice testified Bustamante confessed to stabbing and strangling Olten, citing she "wanted to know what it felt like" to kill someone. Rice also said it was Bustamante who led authorities to Olten's well-concealed body, found in the woods near her home in St. Martins on Oct. 23, 2009, two days after she had gone missing while walking home from a neighbor's house.

Prosecutors filed suggestions on Aug. 12, 2010 for DNA testing of a knife and jeans found at the crime scene and seized by authorities as evidence. In Aug. 2011, Richardson and Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Anji Gandhi informed the court in a motion hearing that evidence testing would not be completed for another six weeks. This information thereby delayed the trial set for Sep. 13, 2011.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on January 03, 2012, 09:48:01 AM
I hope this young monster doesn't get away with murdering a little girl.  She's a perfect example of why we need the death penalty. 


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: ospainter on January 10, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
http://www.komu.com/news/alyssa-bustamante-headed-to-court-to-plea-guilty/

Alyssa Bustamante Headed to Court to Plea Guilty

Posted: Jan 10, 2012 5:22 AM by KOMU Staff
Updated: Jan 10, 2012 7:02 AM

JEFFERSON CITY - Just three weeks shy of a scheduled trial date for 17-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, a family spokesperson for murder victim Elizabeth Olten confirmed to KOMU that Bustamante's defense could accept a plea deal in court on Tuesday morning.

Though KOMU could not reach prosecuting attorney Mark Richardson or defense attorney Donald Catlett, Pam Cafourek confirmed a motion hearing will be held at 9 a.m. at the Cole County Courthouse.

Cafourek said Richardson informed Olten's mother this morning that he planned to offer a second-degree murder plea bargain to Bustamante's defense team. She said Richardson told the Olten family later this afternoon that the defense had agreed to the deal. In court Tuesday, "All [Bustamante] has to do is show up," Cafourek said.

According to the spokesperson, if Bustamante agrees to the guilty plea of second-degree murder, judge Patricia Joyce will decide whether to uphold the agreement. If Joyce sustains the deal, a sentencing hearing will be set. The maximum sentence for the second-degree charge is 30 years in prison with the possibility of parole.

Cafourek said Olten's mother "is absolutely devastated. She wanted it to go to full trial. She wanted [for Bustamante] life in prison without parole. She thought we had enough for the jury to convict her, and apparently Mark didn't feel that way." Cafourek said Richardson told the family initially he would not offer a plea agreement to Bustamante.

"If [Bustamante] changes her mind between now and tomorrow, then it will go to trial," Cafourek said.

Bustamante is scheduled to be tried for first-degree murder as an adult on Jan. 30. She is accused of murdering her nine-year-old neighbor, Olten, two years ago in St. Martins, Mo.

 ::snipping2::

OS


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: ospainter on January 10, 2012, 11:00:24 AM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MISSOURI_GIRL_SLAIN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Jan 10, 10:31 AM EST

Mo. teen pleads guilty to killing 9-year-old girl

By DAVID LIEB
Associated Press

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- A Missouri teenager who told authorities that she strangled, cut and stabbed a 9-year-old neighbor because she wanted to know how it felt pleaded guilty Tuesday in the girl's death.

Alyssa Bustamante pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in the Oct. 21, 2009, killing of Elizabeth Olten in St. Martins, a rural town just west of Jefferson City.

Bustamante, who was 15-years-old at the time of the killing, had been charged with first-degree murder and scheduled to be tried as an adult later this month.

Prosecutors said Bustamante plotted Elizabeth's death, even digging two holes to be used as graves, then attended school for about a week while waiting for the right time to kill. They said Bustamante strangled Elizabeth without provocation, cut the girl's throat and stabbed her.

 ::snipping2::

OS


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: ospainter on January 10, 2012, 11:12:07 AM
http://twitter.com/#!/krcg
 (http://twitter.com/#!/krcg) Here's the link to use.  Thanks for the update OS.  MB


KRCG (http://KRCG) @krcg (http://@krcg) 24m



krcg KRCG
Reporters are waiting on a statement from Elizabeth Olten family spokesperson pic.twitter.com/U5Pm5FZp (http://pic.twitter.com/U5Pm5FZp)
View photo
10:40 AM - 10 Jan 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

    

KRCG KRCG @krcg 27m

    
krcg KRCG
Judge Joyce accepted Bustamante's guilty plea for 2nd degree murder. Elizabeth Olten friends/family crying in the courtroom.
10:37 AM - 10 Jan 12 via web · Details

    
KRCG KRCG @krcg 1h

    

Relatively quiet courthouse before #alyssabustamante plea hearing. pic.twitter.com/5lRcfCcv
View photo
9:42 AM - 10 Jan 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

    

KRCG KRCG @krcg 1h

    

Hearing begins in 40 minutes. Two reporters headed to courthouse for Alyssa Bustamante plea hearing: bit.ly/zbvP26


Hope I did that correctly.

OS


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on January 10, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
Thank you for the updates, ospainter.

Sad day.  No real justice for Elizabeth.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on January 10, 2012, 06:59:37 PM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/missouri-teen-alyssa-bustamante-pleads-guilty-to-murdering-neighbour/story-e6frf7lf-1226241469950

Missouri teen Alyssa Bustamante pleads guilty to murdering neighbour
by: AAP From: AAP January 11, 2012 9:53AM

 ::snipping2::

The judge set a February 6 sentencing hearing. Bustamante would have faced life in prison without parole if convicted of first-degree murder. But by pleading guilty to a reduced murder charge, Bustamante could eventually being released. The punishment for second-degree murder ranges from 10-30 years in prison or life with the possibility of parole. The judge said the armed criminal action charge is punishable by three years up to life in prison.

 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on January 10, 2012, 07:04:22 PM
I want to hear the pros explain why he worked on the plea.  Unless the judge comes down hard on this killer, she'll be out in a few years ready for that 'feeling' again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on January 10, 2012, 07:20:34 PM
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/10/guilty-plea-in-missouri-thrill-killing-case/

17-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is pleading guilty to murder for the 2009 killing of her nine-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante, was 15 years old when she strangled and stabbed Olten to death.  During a videotaped interrogation, Bustamante confessed to

the killing, saying she just wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.  After the confession, she lead police to Olten’s body in the woods.

Judge Pat Joyce threw out Bustamante's confession because she said a juvenile officer present at the interrogation used "deceptive tactics" by telling the Bustamante "she was there as (her) "advocate."" ::snipping2:: ::snipping2::

Another sad day for justice and the victim ::MonkeyTears:: ::MonkeyTears::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on January 10, 2012, 07:26:35 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2084779/Teen-admits-murdering-neighbor-9-wanted-know-felt-like-kill.html
 ::snipping2:: ::snipping2::


Judge Pat Joyce then asked Bustamante to describe what she did.
'I strangled her and stabbed her in the chest.' Bustamante said, looking straight at the judge.
'Did you cut her throat too?' the judge asked.
'Yes' Bustamante responded.
Bustamante told the judge that she knew what she was doing at the time.
 
More...
Caylee Anthony was murdered 'without a doubt', says doctor who examined her body
Cold case police trace DNA of 1991 killer back to 17th century Mayflower family
Bustamante said she used a knife to cut Elizabeth's throat and then strangled the girl with her hands. This confession prompted a sharp, audible intake of breath from Elizabeth's tearful mother who sat in the courtroom just a few feet away.
Bustamante, who was 15 years old at the time of the attack, had been charged with first-degree murder and was supposed to stand trial starting Jan. 30.
Instead, sentencing was set for February 6. She faces 10-30 years to life in prison.
Prosecutors said Bustamante plotted Elizabeth's death, even digging two holes to be used as graves, then attended school for about a week while waiting for the right time to kill.
They said Bustamante strangled Elizabeth without provocation, cut the girl's throat and stabbed her.

 ::snipping2:: ::snipping2::

In June, Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce blocked prosecutors from using part of the statement to police in her murder trial.
Joyce ruled that a juvenile officer wrongly participated in the interview and 'used deceptive tactics' during the questioning.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2084779/Teen-admits-murdering-neighbor-9-wanted-know-felt-like-kill.html#ixzz1j6XmqILC



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on January 10, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
I want to hear the pros explain why he worked on the plea.  Unless the judge comes down hard on this killer, she'll be out in a few years ready for that 'feeling' again.

Kitty Mom I think it's the judge rather than the pros in this case....read what I posted.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on January 10, 2012, 07:50:19 PM
I want to hear the pros explain why he worked on the plea.  Unless the judge comes down hard on this killer, she'll be out in a few years ready for that 'feeling' again.

Kitty Mom I think it's the judge rather than the pros in this case....read what I posted.
I thought that the pros and defense had to agree to the terms of the plea deal before it went before a judge? 
 ::MonkeyConfused::

I just hope the judge doesn't go lightly on her due to her age.  She planned this out so well its scary.  That mind needs to be locked away for good.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on January 12, 2012, 11:12:40 AM
http://twitter.com/#!/CaseSignal (http://twitter.com/#!/CaseSignal)
CaseSignal Case Signal (BeanE)
Reporter's account: Security tight, questions to Bustamante direct - Elizabeth Olten - News Tribune > bit.ly/Ai2f8F (http://bit.ly/Ai2f8F)
19 minutes ago


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on January 12, 2012, 12:24:54 PM


Teen kills girl, 9, 'to know how it feels'

MISSOURI: Alyssa Bustamante looked down, her long brown hair covering her teenage eyes, as a judge read the charges against her: murder and armed criminal action, for knowingly strangling, cutting and stabbing her 9-year-old neighbor.

For more than two years after she was arrested as a high school sophomore, Bustamante had been publicly silent about the gruesome crime, which a patrol officer testified she confessed to committing because "she wanted to know what it felt like." On Tuesday, it was her time to talk.

Describe what you did, a judge instructed Bustamante, as she pleaded guilty to second-degree murder for killing Elizabeth Olten.

"I strangled her and stabbed her in the chest," Bustamante, 17, said in a clear voice, looking straight at the judge.

"Did you cut her throat too?" the judge asked.

"Yes," Bustamante responded.

She used her hands for strangling and a knife for the rest of the attack, Bustamante told judge.

Sitting a few feet away in the front row of a cramped courtroom, her helpless victim's mother took a deep breath and dabbed her tears. She was angry, frustrated, sorrowful.

Bustamante had been charged with first-degree murder, and by pleading guilty to a lesser murder charge she avoided a trial and the possibility of spending her life in an adult prison with no chance of release. Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce will decide after a Feb. 6 sentencing hearing how long Bustamante should remain locked up. Her sentence could be as short as 10 years, or as long as life with the possibility of parole after about 25 years.

 ::snipping2::

http://www.emirates247.com/offbeat/crazy-world/husband-commits-suicide-after-wife-beats-him-up-in-public-2012-01-11-1.437007


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on January 12, 2012, 12:26:39 PM
For many Mid-Missouri reporters, covering Tuesday morning’s Alyssa Bustamante murder case hearing actually began late Monday afternoon, as we all were contacted about a possible plea agreement.

And that victim Elizabeth Olten’s family was none-too-pleased with the arrangement.

 ::snipping2::

http://www.**/news/2012/jan/11/reporters-account-security-tight-questions-dir/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on January 12, 2012, 12:28:05 PM
Family of slain MO girl disappointed by plea deal

JEFFERSON CITY, MO (AP) - Relatives of a slain 9-year-old Missouri girl are disappointed by a plea agreement that could allow her confessed killer to be released from prison someday.

An attorney for the mother of Elizabeth Olten says the family does not believe justice was fully served Tuesday when Alyssa Bustamante pleaded guilty to killing the girl in October 2009.

 ::snipping2::

Attorney Matt Diehr says Elizabeth's mother and other relatives plan to "continue to seek justice" by any legal means available

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16494970/family-of-slain-mo-girl-disappointed-by-plea-deal


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on January 12, 2012, 12:49:43 PM
Family of slain MO girl disappointed by plea deal

JEFFERSON CITY, MO (AP) - Relatives of a slain 9-year-old Missouri girl are disappointed by a plea agreement that could allow her confessed killer to be released from prison someday.

An attorney for the mother of Elizabeth Olten says the family does not believe justice was fully served Tuesday when Alyssa Bustamante pleaded guilty to killing the girl in October 2009.

 ::snipping2::

Attorney Matt Diehr says Elizabeth's mother and other relatives plan to "continue to seek justice" by any legal means available

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16494970/family-of-slain-mo-girl-disappointed-by-plea-deal
I fully understand this family's disappointment.  There is nothing I have read to indicate that if Bustamante gets out she would not kill again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on January 12, 2012, 01:59:00 PM
Family of slain MO girl disappointed by plea deal

JEFFERSON CITY, MO (AP) - Relatives of a slain 9-year-old Missouri girl are disappointed by a plea agreement that could allow her confessed killer to be released from prison someday.

An attorney for the mother of Elizabeth Olten says the family does not believe justice was fully served Tuesday when Alyssa Bustamante pleaded guilty to killing the girl in October 2009.

 ::snipping2::

Attorney Matt Diehr says Elizabeth's mother and other relatives plan to "continue to seek justice" by any legal means available

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16494970/family-of-slain-mo-girl-disappointed-by-plea-deal
I fully understand this family's disappointment.  There is nothing I have read to indicate that if Bustamante gets out she would not kill again.
::rhino::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Amys Sister on January 13, 2012, 05:11:00 PM
This is the first I've read of this tragic story.  Elizabeth was led, trusting and innocent, into the woods to meet her end and probably looked into the eyes of her murderer as she passed away.  So sad and horrifying!!

You monkey's have done a phenomenol job of discussing what it takes to create a murderer vs. whether one is a born murderer.  I don't know that any conclusion was met, but you did give me a lot to think about.

My initial reaction upon reading the story was what happened to this 15 year old girl to turn her into a murderous animal?  The self cutting, the loss of both parents, the suicide attempts all led me to wonder what kind of horrors she suffered as a small child.  I've always felt intense suffering can cause a child to split their true self, or soul, from their mental self and without that soul connection dark entities are able to control the person's mind and eventually, their actions.  I've always imagined this happens in stages where eventually the person is too far gone to be saved.

Many monkey's here have posted that some people are just born evil.  Because of the intelligent (and passionate!) posts on the matter I am forced to believe that this is a distinct possibility.  I imagine most murderers do so for the same reason Alyssa admitted (to see what it feels like) but because of her young age she spoke it aloud whereas other older, more seasoned sociopaths have the sense not to.

What a tragedy for the Olten family.  I hope they are able to find peace someday.  I also hope we are able to unlock the mysteries of the evil that is able to lurk in the human mind.

One last thing, I agree wholeheartedly with Peace's posts about Prozac and antidepressants in general.  These medications can be a catalyst for acting out in awful ways and in many cases make the lives of patient's worse instead of better.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on January 14, 2012, 01:29:42 PM
This is the first I've read of this tragic story.  Elizabeth was led, trusting and innocent, into the woods to meet her end and probably looked into the eyes of her murderer as she passed away.  So sad and horrifying!!

You monkey's have done a phenomenol job of discussing what it takes to create a murderer vs. whether one is a born murderer.  I don't know that any conclusion was met, but you did give me a lot to think about.

My initial reaction upon reading the story was what happened to this 15 year old girl to turn her into a murderous animal?  The self cutting, the loss of both parents, the suicide attempts all led me to wonder what kind of horrors she suffered as a small child.  I've always felt intense suffering can cause a child to split their true self, or soul, from their mental self and without that soul connection dark entities are able to control the person's mind and eventually, their actions.  I've always imagined this happens in stages where eventually the person is too far gone to be saved.

Many monkey's here have posted that some people are just born evil.  Because of the intelligent (and passionate!) posts on the matter I am forced to believe that this is a distinct possibility.  I imagine most murderers do so for the same reason Alyssa admitted (to see what it feels like) but because of her young age she spoke it aloud whereas other older, more seasoned sociopaths have the sense not to.

What a tragedy for the Olten family.  I hope they are able to find peace someday.  I also hope we are able to unlock the mysteries of the evil that is able to lurk in the human mind.

One last thing, I agree wholeheartedly with Peace's posts about Prozac and antidepressants in general.  These medications can be a catalyst for acting out in awful ways and in many cases make the lives of patient's worse instead of better.
Amys Sister, thank you for your thoughtful post.
I don't claim to have the answers . . . what makes one person a survivor and another a victim.  I know of three children who were brought up in an abusive home, with an alcoholic parent -- two of the children have gone on to lead lives of crime, one has not.  Same environment, same parents, same abuse.  What caused one to live a life as a survivor and not a victim, blaming others for their actions.  This child and I (who is now an adult with the two siblings in jail) have talked about this many times.  The answer, we just don't know.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Amys Sister on January 14, 2012, 11:22:58 PM
Hi Sister.  You are so right, we may never know why some people go bad and others don't. 

It just seems that unloved and abused children are far more likely to become violent criminals which would indicate that abuse can be a trigger for a person who has a predisposition to being one. 

Not that we could ever completely eradicate it from our world (without divine intervention) but I think we can do a better job preventing abuse and the cycles that entails.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on January 15, 2012, 01:16:29 PM
http://www.**/news/2012/jan/15/determining-whats-next-alyssa/
Determining what’s next for Alyssa
Background, mental health, circumstances will most likely be taken into account by judge
January 15, 2012

Alyssa Bustamante, who turns 18 on Jan. 28, faces a certain future in prison, because her plea last week to second-degree murder — for the Oct. 21, 2009, killing of Elizabeth Olten, 9 — requires Cole County Presiding Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce to order at least a 10-year sentence.

But how much more of a sentence should be ordered will be argued Feb. 6-7, during a sentencing hearing where Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson and Public Defenders Donald Catlett and Charles Moreland will present evidence for Joyce to consider in determining the final sentence.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on January 15, 2012, 02:30:14 PM
Elizabeth's Candles


http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Liz%20O

Please light a candle and say a prayer for Elizabeth.  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: New Monkey on January 20, 2012, 10:36:44 PM
I am absolutely astounded to read about this plea deal.  I do not feel as though justice will be served if AB is sentenced to anything less than life in prison without parole.  I am just stunned.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on January 20, 2012, 11:20:21 PM
I am absolutely astounded to read about this plea deal.  I do not feel as though justice will be served if AB is sentenced to anything less than life in prison without parole.  I am just stunned.


You might be right.  It's a tragic case, New Monkey--a premeditated, violent killing of Elizabeth.  However, I think that the judge will take into consideration her age when the killing took place and her state of mind at the time.  She might be in need of some major psychiatric counselling and possibly meds.  I think that she will probably get 10-30 years.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on January 21, 2012, 09:00:37 AM
I am absolutely astounded to read about this plea deal.  I do not feel as though justice will be served if AB is sentenced to anything less than life in prison without parole.  I am just stunned.


You might be right.  It's a tragic case, New Monkey--a premeditated, violent killing of Elizabeth.  However, I think that the judge will take into consideration her age when the killing took place and her state of mind at the time.  She might be in need of some major psychiatric counselling and possibly meds.  I think that she will probably get 10-30 years.

BBM
I truly hope she get more than 10-30 years.
This young woman knew what she was doing, dug two graves to hide her crime, etc.  It will be interesting to see what "circumstances" would make the judge give such a light sentence.
 ::justice2NJ::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 06, 2012, 03:39:02 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/06/3412812/missouri-teen-killer-bustamante.html

Posted on Mon, Feb. 06, 2012 12:58 PM
Missouri teen describes killing as ‘pretty enjoyable’

JEFFERSON CITY -- A Missouri teenager who pleaded guilty to killing a 9-year-old girl wrote in her journal that it was an “ahmazing” and “pretty enjoyable” experience.

 ::snipping2::
Elizabeth’s mother, Patty Preiss, tearfully pleaded with the judge to give the maximum sentence possible to Bustamante, whom she repeatedly described as an “evil monster.”
 ::snipping2::

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/06/3412812/missouri-teen-killer-bustamante.html#storylink=cpy


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on February 06, 2012, 03:44:58 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/06/3412812/missouri-teen-killer-bustamante.html

Posted on Mon, Feb. 06, 2012 12:58 PM
Missouri teen describes killing as ‘pretty enjoyable’

JEFFERSON CITY -- A Missouri teenager who pleaded guilty to killing a 9-year-old girl wrote in her journal that it was an “ahmazing” and “pretty enjoyable” experience.

 ::snipping2::
Elizabeth’s mother, Patty Preiss, tearfully pleaded with the judge to give the maximum sentence possible to Bustamante, whom she repeatedly described as an “evil monster.”
 ::snipping2::

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/06/3412812/missouri-teen-killer-bustamante.html#storylink=cpy

To my knowledge, she has shown no remorse.  I am praying for justice!
 ::justice2NJ::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 06, 2012, 03:46:00 PM
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2012/02/alyssa_bustamante_journal_sentencing.php

Alyssa Bustamante: Her Confession Was Off-Limits, But Her Journal Is A Different Matter
By Paul Friswold Mon., Feb. 6 2012 at 2:07 PM

Alyssa Bustamante, the young woman who killed Elizabeth Olten, her nine-year-old neighbor, had a sentencing hearing today in Jefferson City. Although Bustamante, now eighteen, confessed to police, the confession was ruled inadmissible in court because the police who questioned her used "deceptive tactics."
 ::snipping2::
At today's sentencing hearing, sections of Bustamante's journal was read aloud to the court. The then-fifteen-year-old Bustamante wrote that strangling a child and then slashing her throat was "ahmazing."

She wrote further:

As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 06, 2012, 04:01:51 PM
http://www.**/news/2012/feb/06/bustamantes-journal-was-focus-first-day-hearing/

Bustamante's journal was focus of first day of hearing
By Jeff Haldiman
Monday, February 6, 2012

The journal that Alyssa Bustamante kept was the focus of much of the first day of testimony during the sentencing hearing Monday for the October 2009 killing of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

Bustamante, now 18, pleaded guilty Jan. 10 to second-degree murder for the Oct. 21, 2009, killing. Two days of hearings have been scheduled before Cole County Ciruit Judge Patricia Joyce imposes a sentence, which could be up to life in prison with a possibility of parole.

Don Lock, a forensic consultant, was called by Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson to talk about his findings when examining Alyssa’s journal.
 ::snipping2::
Testimony was expected to continue through the afternoon Monday and again on Tuesday.
----------------------------

It will be interesting to see which sentence the judge rules--10 years, or 25 years, or life in prison with a possibility of parole.  This appears to be a "thrill" killing.  So, so sad.  ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on February 06, 2012, 08:54:39 PM
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2012/02/alyssa_bustamante_journal_sentencing.php

Alyssa Bustamante: Her Confession Was Off-Limits, But Her Journal Is A Different Matter
By Paul Friswold Mon., Feb. 6 2012 at 2:07 PM

Alyssa Bustamante, the young woman who killed Elizabeth Olten, her nine-year-old neighbor, had a sentencing hearing today in Jefferson City. Although Bustamante, now eighteen, confessed to police, the confession was ruled inadmissible in court because the police who questioned her used "deceptive tactics."
 ::snipping2::
At today's sentencing hearing, sections of Bustamante's journal was read aloud to the court. The then-fifteen-year-old Bustamante wrote that strangling a child and then slashing her throat was "ahmazing."

She wrote further:

As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol.
 ::snipping2::

What a sick, evil girl.  She should never be allowed to breathe fresh air again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 07, 2012, 11:10:28 AM
Sick, evil ... I wish she could get the DP  A waste of oxygen and taxpayer $ to allow her to breathe

Mo. teen describes knife killing of 9-year-old as amazing, enjoyable

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/02/06/news/nation/mo-teen-describes-knife-killing-of-9-year-old-as-amazing-enjoyable/
snipped

“So much has been lost at the hands of this evil monster,” Preiss tearfully said, with Bustamante sitting several feet away. “Elizabeth was given a death sentence and we were given a life sentence.”

With Bustamante looking at her, Preiss said: “I hate her, I hate everything about her.” The judge cut off her testimony when she described Bustamante as “not even human.”




snipped at the end

At one point Bustamante had written that she intended to burn down a house and kill all the occupants, but she never followed through with that. On Oct. 14, one week before Elizabeth’s slaying, Bustamante had written that she was unable to use her cell phone because the charger had died, which meant she couldn’t talk to anyone about the depression and rage she was feeling.

“If I don’t talk about it, I bottle it up, and when I explode someone’s going to die,” she wrote in a journal that was read to the court by her defense attorney, Charlie Moreland.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on February 07, 2012, 11:32:52 AM
Sick, evil ... I wish she could get the DP  A waste of oxygen and taxpaers $ to allow her to breathe

Mo. teen describes knife killing of 9-year-old as amazing, enjoyable

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/02/06/news/nation/mo-teen-describes-knife-killing-of-9-year-old-as-amazing-enjoyable/
snipped

“So much has been lost at the hands of this evil monster,” Preiss tearfully said, with Bustamante sitting several feet away. “Elizabeth was given a death sentence and we were given a life sentence.”

With Bustamante looking at her, Preiss said: “I hate her, I hate everything about her.” The judge cut off her testimony when she described Bustamante as “not even human.”

snipped at the end

At one point Bustamante had written that she intended to burn down a house and kill all the occupants, but she never followed through with that. On Oct. 14, one week before Elizabeth’s slaying, Bustamante had written that she was unable to use her cell phone because the charger had died, which meant she couldn’t talk to anyone about the depression and rage she was feeling.

“If I don’t talk about it, I bottle it up, and when I explode someone’s going to die,” she wrote in a journal that was read to the court by her defense attorney, Charlie Moreland.

poor thing, her charger died . . . NOT! she is worse than any animal!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 07, 2012, 12:56:16 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/07/missouri-teen-killer-had-troubled-family-depression/

Missouri teen killer had troubled family, depression
Published February 07, 2012

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. –  Abandoned by her mother and missing a father in prison, Alyssa Bustamante had plunged to the depths of depression before, once overdosing on a large bottle of painkillers, slicing her skin hundreds of times and carving the word "hate" in her arm. She recovered from her suicide attempt and was prescribed an antidepressant drug.

Two years later, an increased dosage of the antidepressant Prozac might have made her more prone to do the unthinkable: strangling, slicing the throat and repeatedly stabbing a 9-year-old neighbor girl to death, Bustamante's defense attorneys suggested Monday during a sentencing hearing.

 ::snipping2::

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/07/missouri-teen-killer-had-troubled-family-depression/#ixzz1lifnVa7m


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 07, 2012, 01:41:09 PM
 ::snipping2::

The journal entries began about two months before Elizabeth's murder, and included several references to suicidal thoughts.

"If I don't talk about it, I bottle it up, and when I explode someone's going to die," she wrote in a journal entry that was read to the court by her lawyer.

The night of the murder, Bustamante later went to a youth dance at her church.

Her grandmother was asked in court if she noticed anything different as they left the home. She said Bustamante seemed happier than normal.



http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16165042


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 07, 2012, 01:43:34 PM
Hearing Resumes Today in Bustamante Sentencing

 ::snipping2::

In testimony Monday, Olten's mother took the stand.

She called Bustamante an "evil monster," and asked the judge to consider the sentence as though it were the judge's child who had been murdered.

Bustamante faces life in prison without parole.

http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=599542


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 07, 2012, 02:05:30 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mo-teen-killer-troubled-family-depression-15527266

Mo. Teen Killer Had Troubled Family, Depression
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. February 7, 2012 (AP)

A psychiatrist testifying for prosecutors says there is no way that an antidepressant drug could have made a Missouri teenager kill a 9-year-old neighbor girl.

 ::snipping2::

But Rothschild says there is no scientific or medical evidence that Prozac causes people to commit murder. To the contrary, he says it actually can decrease hostility and aggression.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on February 07, 2012, 03:25:33 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mo-teen-killer-troubled-family-depression-15527266

Mo. Teen Killer Had Troubled Family, Depression
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. February 7, 2012 (AP)

A psychiatrist testifying for prosecutors says there is no way that an antidepressant drug could have made a Missouri teenager kill a 9-year-old neighbor girl.

 ::snipping2::

But Rothschild says there is no scientific or medical evidence that Prozac causes people to commit murder. To the contrary, he says it actually can decrease hostility and aggression.

This young woman may be mentally ill.  But she also knew right from wrong.  Lock her up and through away the key.  If she's ever allowed out, she'll kill again.  For the thrill and high she's tasted.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on February 07, 2012, 03:25:58 PM
*throw


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 07, 2012, 03:32:21 PM
Prosecution seeks to counter ‘Prozac defense'
Defense presents more evidence of Bustamante’s mental state

 ::snipping2::

Two officials with the Jefferson City Public School District also were called to the stand this morning.

Lisa Bleich, a counselor at Thomas Jefferson Middle School, testified Alyssa did not have any problems until August 2007.

That’s when she was told by a parent of another student at the school that Alyssa was a cutter.

Bleich said she called Alyssa in and saw on her arms where she had cut herself several times. She said she then contacted Alyssa’s grandmother, Karen Brooke, who talked about getting her outside counseling.

Eventually, officials from Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare were brought in and had sessions with Alyssa at the school.

Also testifying was Alyssa Neitzert, a registered nurse with University Hospital’s Emergency Department.

She was called by Alyssa’s defense to do a body exam of Alyssa at the Cole County Jail in November 2011 to find evidence of self-mutilation.

Neitzert said she found more than 300 such marks on Alyssa’s body, an amount she said she had never seen before.

All the wounds were healed and some were difficult to see because Alyssa is fair-skinned.

http://www.**/news/2012/feb/07/prosecution-seeks-counter-prozac-defense/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 07, 2012, 03:36:18 PM
 ::snipping2::

A nurse from the University of Missouri Hospital who examined Bustamante while the teen was in jail last November testified that she had documented well over 300 scars from intentional cuts on Bustamante's arms, legs and torso. Among those still visible scars were a peace sign, two broken hearts and the word "hate," which Bustamante had carved into herself, said nurse Alyssa Neitzert.

Bustamante's body also showed signs of a self-inflicted burn mark, bite, and an attempt to pierce the skin underneath her lips, Neitzert said.

 ::snipping2::

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0kWVmt3i-mhvlyT4OIYD2anKv2Q?docId=c0c424bfd4dc48d4ba16177dc05b609d


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 07, 2012, 07:47:30 PM
http://ktar.com/509/1485732/Sentence-likely-Wednesday-for-teenage-Mo-killer

Sentence likely Wednesday for teenage Mo. killer
By DAVID A. LIEB
(February 7th, 2012 @ 5:30pm)

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A Missouri teenager who confessed to murdering a young neighbor girl is described as a "thrill killer" by prosecutors and a mentally disturbed child by her defense attorneys.

Those characterizations of 18-year-old Alyssa Bustamante (boo-stuh-MAHN'-tay) were made Tuesday as a judge considers whether to sentence her to life in prison for the October 2009 slaying of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

As prosecutor Mark Richardson was making his closing argument, Bustamante's grandmother stormed out of the courtroom crying. That prompted Bustamante to cry for the first time during the hearing.

Then as the judge was preparing to exit, Elizabeth's grandmother cried out from her wheelchair that Bustamante should not get out of jail until Elizabeth gets out of the grave.

The judge said she would hand down the sentence Wednesday.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 07, 2012, 09:56:32 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/07/mo-teen-killer-had-troubled-family-depression/

Mo. teen described as thrill killer by prosecutors
Published February 07, 2012

 ::snipping2::

The prosecutor urged the judge to impose the maximum for second-degree murder — life in prison with the possibility of parole — and an additional 71 years in prison for armed criminal action, which he said would have matched the remaining life expectancy of Elizabeth. Richardson also urged that the sentences be served consecutively, meaning that the 18-year-old Bustamante would be an elderly woman before she ever got a chance at parole.

Bustamante's attorney, Donald Catlett, countered that the sentences should run concurrently and that the judge should take into consideration a pre-sentencing report prepared by the state Division of Probation and Parole that apparently suggests something less than a life sentence. The judge said the recommendation must remain confidential.

 ::snipping2::

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/07/mo-teen-killer-had-troubled-family-depression/#ixzz1lkqQbKFH


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: New Monkey on February 08, 2012, 10:06:37 AM

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. –  A central Missouri teenager who confessed to strangling, cutting and stabbing a 9-year-old girl because she wanted to know how it felt to kill someone was sentenced Wednesday to life in prison with the possibility of parole.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/08/mo-teen-described-as-thrill-killer-by-prosecutors/?test=latestnews#ixzz1lnpyo100


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cecilita on February 08, 2012, 10:23:55 AM
Hello Monkeys,
Ws she planning to kill her sister? why she dug 2 holes? who was next?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on February 08, 2012, 10:33:17 AM
Hello Monkeys,
Ws she planning to kill her sister? why she dug 2 holes? who was next?
Cecilita, a very good question.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cecilita on February 08, 2012, 10:34:00 AM
Hello Monkeys,
Ws she planning to kill her sister? why she dug 2 holes? who was next?
"I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead,"

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/08/mo-teen-described-as-thrill-killer-by-prosecutors/?test=latestnews#ixzz1lnwodC16
Who are them? did she kill somebody else?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on February 08, 2012, 10:37:52 AM
Hello Monkeys,
Ws she planning to kill her sister? why she dug 2 holes? who was next?
"I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead,"

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/08/mo-teen-described-as-thrill-killer-by-prosecutors/?test=latestnews#ixzz1lnwodC16
Who are them? did she kill somebody else?
I noticed the "them" also.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: New Monkey on February 08, 2012, 11:38:49 AM
I'm not sure why she used plural language unless a pet was killed too, maybe?  Am I remembering something about a pet?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 08, 2012, 11:45:19 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mo-teen-killer-troubled-family-depression-15527266

Mo. Teen Killer Had Troubled Family, Depression
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. February 7, 2012 (AP)

A psychiatrist testifying for prosecutors says there is no way that an antidepressant drug could have made a Missouri teenager kill a 9-year-old neighbor girl.

 ::snipping2::

But Rothschild says there is no scientific or medical evidence that Prozac causes people to commit murder. To the contrary, he says it actually can decrease hostility and aggression.

This young woman may be mentally ill.  But she also knew right from wrong.  Lock her up and through away the key.  If she's ever allowed out, she'll kill again.  For the thrill and high she's tasted.

serial killer waiting to happen


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 08, 2012, 11:51:21 AM

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. –  A central Missouri teenager who confessed to strangling, cutting and stabbing a 9-year-old girl because she wanted to know how it felt to kill someone was sentenced Wednesday to life in prison with the possibility of parole.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/08/mo-teen-described-as-thrill-killer-by-prosecutors/?test=latestnews#ixzz1lnpyo100

Disgrace  ::MonkeyMad::   ::justice2NJ:: ::monkeydenied::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on February 08, 2012, 12:19:55 PM
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 08, 2012, 01:09:05 PM
 ::justice2NJ::

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mo-teen-thrill-killer-prosecutors-15536222

Mo. Teen Gets Life With Possible Parole in Killing
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. February 8, 2012 (AP)

 ::snipping2::
The judge also ordered the teen to serve a consecutive 30-year term in the armed criminal action charge.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 08, 2012, 01:14:34 PM
New booking photo

(http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/02/08/news/web_photos/MissouriGirlSlain093919--300x300.jpg)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on February 08, 2012, 01:16:56 PM
(http://jeffcity.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2012/02/08/Bustamante_1_t670.jpg?b3f6a5d7692ccc373d56e40cf708e3fa67d9af9d)
Eighteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is escorted out of the Cole County Courthouse to a waiting sheriff's vehicle in which she was whisked away to the Missouri Eastern Women's Prison in Vandalia. She was sentenced to life plus 30 years for second degree murder and armed criminal action. Photo by Julie Smith.
http://www.**/news/2012/feb/08/missouri-teen-alyssa-bustamonte-sentenced-life/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on February 08, 2012, 04:06:09 PM
::justice2NJ::

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mo-teen-thrill-killer-prosecutors-15536222

Mo. Teen Gets Life With Possible Parole in Killing
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. February 8, 2012 (AP)

 ::snipping2::
The judge also ordered the teen to serve a consecutive 30-year term in the armed criminal action charge.
 ::snipping2::

grace-land, glad this was consecutive and not concurrent.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 08, 2012, 04:44:22 PM
::justice2NJ::

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mo-teen-thrill-killer-prosecutors-15536222

Mo. Teen Gets Life With Possible Parole in Killing
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. February 8, 2012 (AP)

 ::snipping2::
The judge also ordered the teen to serve a consecutive 30-year term in the armed criminal action charge.
 ::snipping2::

grace-land, glad this was consecutive and not concurrent.

Oh, Sister, justice has finally come for dear Elizabeth.  At least it is more than the 18 years that Elisa Baker received for the second-degree murder of our angel Zahra.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 08, 2012, 07:09:19 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hCgU6xrnsng5O3c51aDYiaB88FfQ?docId=4066d355eb90459883cd19417ff6dfcb

Mo. teen gets life sentence, apologizes for murder
By DAVID A. LIEB, Associated Press – 41 minutes ago 

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A Missouri teenager who had described the slaying of a young neighbor girl as an "ahmazing" thrill made an emotional apology Wednesday to the girl's family and was sentenced to a potential lifetime in prison.
 ::snipping2::
Bustamante originally had been charged with first-degree murder but pleaded guilty last month to the lesser charges to avoid a trial and the possibility of spending her life in an adult prison with no chance of release.

Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson said after Wednesday's sentencing that he agreed to the lesser charge because the judge had suppressed a statement given by Bustamante to authorities in which she described the slaying and stated she wanted "to know what it felt like" to kill someone.
 ::snipping2::
Under Missouri guidelines, Bustamante would have to serve 35 years and 5 months in prison before she is eligible for parole, said Department of Corrections spokesman Chris Cline. It's also possible that the more than two years Bustamante spent in jail while awaiting her sentencing could be counted toward that time.

After spending several weeks at a diagnostic prison, Bustamante could be placed in either one of Missouri's two female prisons or sent out of state. Cline said department officials also would evaluate whether Bustamante should be kept separate from other adult woman inmates.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 09, 2012, 06:38:36 PM
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/teenager-who-killed-for-fun-sentenced/

February 9, 2012
Teenager who killed for fun sentenced
Posted: 09:21 AM ET

A teenager who says she killed her nine-year-old neighbor because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone has been sentenced to 60 years in prison.

Judge Patricia Joyce sentenced 18-year-old Alyssa Bustamante to life in prison for the murder of Elizabeth Olten, and 30 years on a charge of armed criminal action.

Despite the life sentence, Bustamante could be out of jail at age 78. In Missouri, a life sentence equates to a maximum of 30 years, and because the Missouri circuit judge ordered Bustamante to serve her sentences consecutively, she will serve a maximum of 60 years in prison with the possibility of parole.

 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 09, 2012, 11:26:25 PM
http://www.missourinet.com/2012/02/09/bustamante-to-serve-at-35-to-60-years-for-olten-murder/

Bustamante to serve at 35 to 60 years for Olten murder (FULL AUDIO)
February 9, 2012 By Jessica Machetta

 ::snipping2::

According to the Dept. of Corrections Parole Board, she’ll have to serve a minimum of 85 percent of the life sentence — which is 30 years under Missouri statute — and 33 percent of the 30-year armed criminal action sentence. That works out to be 35 years, five months, and three days, says Corrections spokesman Chris Cline. She will be credited with time served in the Cole Co. jail, a little over two years.

 ::snipping2::
----------------------------

Audio at link -- Defense Attorneys Charles Moreland and Don Catlett on the crime, sentence (31:18)
Audio at link -- Prosecuting Attorney Mark Richardson on damage to Olten family, sentence (26:31)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on February 10, 2012, 11:56:17 AM
Thanks for the updates, grace-land.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 10, 2012, 08:23:55 PM
Thanks for the updates, grace-land.

You're welcome, Sister.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 10, 2012, 08:26:59 PM
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/02/10/an-emotional-apology-for-a-heinous-crime/

Bustamante Entering Missouri’s Prison System
February 10, 2012 6:37 AM

ST. LOUIS, Mo. (KMOX) - Sentenced to life in prison for murdering her nine-year old neighbor, Alyssa Bustamante is now entering Missouri’s Prison system, her home for at least the next 33 years.

Since she is now 18 years-old, Bustamante is going through the same routine as all other adult new prisoners: being physically and mentally examined, and receiving the system rule book and other information at the women’s facility in Vandalia.

System spokesman Chris Cline says she is in segregation now, and testing will determine when she moves out and where she goes next.  Cline said,   ”her case has a little more notoriety than other cases and obviously that’s something we take into consideration”
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on February 14, 2012, 05:26:41 PM
http://www.timesonline.com/news/national/muddy-clothes-shovel-seized-from-mo-teen-killer/article_18a0a364-66e9-5dc7-9bb1-8ab748d07406.html#.Tzrc-slvdAM.twitter
Muddy clothes, shovel seized from Mo. teen killer
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:21 pm | Updated: 5:02 pm, Tue Feb 14, 2012.

 ::snipping2::
In response to the AP's request, Cole County Circuit Judge Pat Joyce released some of those documents but redacted portions relating to a confession Bustamante gave to police two days after the murder that the judge previously had suppressed from being presented as evidence.

In addition to seizing a diary that had been hidden under a blanket in Bustamante's bedroom, the newly released documents show authorities also took muddy jeans and clothing that appeared to have blood stains on them, as well as two shovels. Details about the seizures were included in the transcript of a secret court hearing held Aug. 23 on a defense motion to suppress the evidence. The judge ultimately rejected that motion, and the blood turned out to be from Bustamante.

"No blood from Elizabeth was found on anything that was seized from that home," Bustamante's attorney, Charlie Moreland, said Tuesday.

The day after Elizabeth disappeared, Bustamante skipped school and went to the home of her 16-year-old boyfriend. Court documents show the boyfriend was interviewed eight times by the FBI and Missouri State Highway Patrol over the ensuring seven days. The boyfriend told authorities that Bustamante had mentioned that her little sister's friend was missing and that police had searched her house. The boyfriend said he also found a black knife or box-cutter in Bustamante's backpack, a weapon Cole County Prosecutor Mark Richardson said Tuesday was much smaller than the knife used in the murder.

The boyfriend denied knowing about Elizabeth's death until being informed of it by the FBI, which caused him to become ill and later vomit, Bustamante's attorneys wrote in a Jan. 9 court filing that had been kept secret. The court filing, which sought to block the boyfriend from being called to testify at the trial, said the boyfriend later failed a polygraph test. But he never was charged with a crime.

"All the evidence we had pointed to only one person (Bustamante) being involved in the murder," Richardson said Tuesday.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: KittyMom on February 14, 2012, 09:33:52 PM
This is someone that LE should study.  Find out how her mind works and you might have a chance of understanding others before they commit a murder.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: grace-land on February 16, 2012, 12:31:33 AM
This is someone that LE should study.  Find out how her mind works and you might have a chance of understanding others before they commit a murder.

 ::rhino::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on March 09, 2012, 11:23:22 AM
http://ccheadliner.com/news/falling-through-the-cracks/article_9ee6cbf0-67b9-11e1-952f-0019bb2963f4.html
Falling through the cracks
The telling truth about teen violence.

By: Amelia Wigton, associate editor
March 7, 2012





Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on October 01, 2012, 08:56:18 PM
Elizabeth's Grandfather Harold Corn's Obituary. 

http://www.mysullivannews.com/2012/09/harold-corn/
Harold Corn
Posted by SiteJudge on Sep 18th, 2012 // No Comment   

Harold Corn
Harold Raymond Corn of Jefferson City, MO passed away on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 at the Life Care Center in Sullivan, MO at the age of 71 years.
He was born on October 16, 1940 in southern Missouri, the son of the late Raymond and Dora (Horn) Corn. On April 27, 2005, he was united in marriage to Sandra Kay Hopkins; she survives the home.
Harold was a truck driver and later made plastic visors for welding. He later worked as maintenance and repair for St. Clair Dye Casting, where he retired. Harold served in the United States Army. He enjoyed woodworking and puttering around.
Along with his wife, Sandra, he is survived by one son, Rick Carwile and wife, Debbie, of Owensville; three daughters, Patricia “Patty” Preiss of Jefferson City, Cindy Spurgeon and husband, Randy, of Owensville and Pam Sills and husband, Mike, of Jefferson City; two sisters, Virginia “Lu” Campbell and husband, Jimmy, of St. Louis and Susie Puuatuua and husband, Fred, of North Carolina; 12 grandchildren; and 13 great-grandchildren.
He was preceded in death by one grandchild, Elizabeth Olten.
Friends were received from 10 a.m. to 11 a.m. on Saturday, September 15, 2012 at the Houser-Millard Funeral Home, Jefferson City, MO.
 ::snipping2::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on October 02, 2012, 05:39:15 AM
RIP Mr. Corn


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: cookie on October 03, 2012, 06:46:45 PM
we pass the Vandalia women.s prison on the way down to the ozarks...It is a red building, rather cheery looking for a prison and too nice for the monster who murdered Elizabeth,


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on October 04, 2012, 10:48:08 AM
we pass the Vandalia women.s prison on the way down to the ozarks...It is a red building, rather cheery looking for a prison and too nice for the monster who murdered Elizabeth,
::rhino::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 29, 2012, 01:19:43 PM
Mother files wrongful death lawsuit
9-year-old’s family sues Pathways and teen killer
Sunday, October 28, 2012

Elizabeth Olten’s mother has filed a wrongful death lawsuit in Cole County, three years after the 9-year-old girl was murdered near her home on Lomo Drive, south of U.S. 50 in St. Martins.

Defendants in the suit are:

• Alyssa Daileen Bustamante, now 18, who pleaded guilty Jan. 10 to second-degree murder in the case and now is serving a life sentence, plus 30 years for armed criminal action, at the state’s Women’s Eastern Reception and Diagnostic Center, Vandalia.

She was 15 on Oct. 21, 2009, when she strangled and stabbed Olten, a neighbor and friend of Bustamante’s younger sister.

• Pathways Behavioral Healthcare and two of its employees.

Mel Fetter, president and CEO of Compass Health, Pathways’ parent company, said in a Friday afternoon e-mail: “We are aware of the suit but, obviously, cannot comment on pending litigation.”

The case was assigned to Cole County Presiding Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce. No hearings had been scheduled by Friday afternoon.

In the lawsuit, Patricia Preiss said her daughter “died related to certain actions or omissions of Bustamante and the other defendants.”

Noting that Bustamante “was under care and treatment of Pathways” and its employees, the nine-page lawsuit argues: “Bustamante’s violent propensities were well-documented from a young age, including but not limited to a declaration on her ‘Myspace’ page that her hobbies were ‘cutting; killing people,’ a video wherein Bustamante electrocutes her younger brothers, a picture of Bustamante holding a knife to another girl’s throat, and other evidence ...”

Preiss said Pathways’ employees “were aware of the same violent propensities of Bustamante, as well as the specific, identifiable threats to harm Olten (but), despite actual knowledge of the threat Bustamante posed to Olten, none of these defendants took actions to detain Bustamante, none took action to result in her detention, none warned Olten or Preiss of the specific threat on Olten, nor did they take any action that might have prevented Bustamante from harming Olten.”

 ::snipping2::

http://www.**/news/2012/oct/28/mother-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit/


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Northern Rose on October 29, 2012, 01:21:19 PM
Mom Says Shrink Ignored Tell-Tale Signs of Killer
Thursday, October 25, 2012

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (CN) - A psychiatrist ignored the "well-documented" violent propensities of a teenager who murdered her neighbor, a mother claims in court.
     Alyssa Bustamante was 15 when she killed 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten on Oct. 21, 2009.
     Bustamante pleaded guilty to the murder and is serving a life sentence. She led authorities to the body, which she had buried at one of two grave sites that she prepared a week prior to the murder.
     The girl told police she killed Olten because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody, and she had written in her journal afterward that the experience was "pretty enjoyable."
     Patricia Preiss says her daughter, Olten, would still be alive if Bustamante's psychiatrist, Dr. Nigar Sultana, had taken heed of the warning signs.

 ::snipping2::

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/10/25/51674.htm


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Toler on March 11, 2014, 12:53:04 AM
Teenage 'thrill killer' must spend at least 35 years behind bars for choking and stabbing her nine-year-old neighbor, as judge denies new trial
3/10/14

Alyssa Bustamante was 15 when she killed neighbor Elizabeth Olten, nine, and buried her in the Missouri woods in 2009

 She wrote in her diary that it was 'ahmazing' and 'pretty enjoyable'

She was initially charged with first-degree murder with a mandatory life sentence
 She accepted a plea deal in 2012 and sentenced to 35 years jail
 Several months later, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled juveniles can't face automatic life sentences without the possibility of parole
 At a court hearing in January, the now 20-year-old Bustamente testified that she wouldn't have accepted the plea deal if she'd known about the national legal change
 A judge has now denied a new trial saying the evidence against her was strong and her attorneys weren't incompetent
 
 
A judge has denied a new trial for a young Missouri woman who pleaded guilty to murder for the slaying of a nine-year-old neighbor girl but later sought a do-over because of a U.S. Supreme Court case invalidating mandatory life sentences for juveniles.
 
Alyssa Bustamante was 15-years-old in 2009 when she killed Elizabeth Olten and buried her in a wooded area west of Jefferson City.
 
Bustamante wrote in her diary that it was an 'ahmazing' and 'pretty enjoyable' experience.
 
She originally was charged with first-degree murder, which would have carried a mandatory life sentence without parole.
 

But shortly before her 2012 trial, Bustamante pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and armed criminal action.
 

She was sentenced on the murder charge to life in prison with the chance of parole, plus 30 years for the other charge.
 
Several months after Bustamante pleaded guilty, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a separate case that juveniles cannot face automatic life sentences without the possibility of parole.
 
Bustamante then got a new attorney, who claimed her original public defenders were ineffective.


At a court hearing in January, the now 20-year-old Bustamante testified that she wouldn't have accepted the plea deal had she known about the possibility for the nation's high court to wipe out mandatory life sentences for juveniles convicted of murder.
 
But Charles Moreland, one of her original attorneys, testified that they had talked to her about the issues pending before the Supreme Court.


He said Bustamante 'stood a very strong risk of being found guilty' by jurors of first-degree murder had she not pleaded guilty to the lesser charge.
 
Cole County Circuit Judge Pat Joyce wrote in a decision dated Thursday, but released today, that Bustamante's request to set aside her guilty plea and sentence was 'meritless' and her original attorneys weren't deficient.  ::monkeyscissors:: 


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577964/Teenage-thrill-killer-spend-35-years-bars-choking-stabbing-nine-year-old-neighbor-judge-denies-new-trial.html#ixzz2vcxWmfke
 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on March 11, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
Teenage 'thrill killer' must spend at least 35 years behind bars for choking and stabbing her nine-year-old neighbor, as judge denies new trial
3/10/14

Alyssa Bustamante was 15 when she killed neighbor Elizabeth Olten, nine, and buried her in the Missouri woods in 2009

 She wrote in her diary that it was 'ahmazing' and 'pretty enjoyable'

She was initially charged with first-degree murder with a mandatory life sentence
 She accepted a plea deal in 2012 and sentenced to 35 years jail
 Several months later, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled juveniles can't face automatic life sentences without the possibility of parole
 At a court hearing in January, the now 20-year-old Bustamente testified that she wouldn't have accepted the plea deal if she'd known about the national legal change
 A judge has now denied a new trial saying the evidence against her was strong and her attorneys weren't incompetent
 
 
A judge has denied a new trial for a young Missouri woman who pleaded guilty to murder for the slaying of a nine-year-old neighbor girl but later sought a do-over because of a U.S. Supreme Court case invalidating mandatory life sentences for juveniles.
 
Alyssa Bustamante was 15-years-old in 2009 when she killed Elizabeth Olten and buried her in a wooded area west of Jefferson City.
 
Bustamante wrote in her diary that it was an 'ahmazing' and 'pretty enjoyable' experience.
 
She originally was charged with first-degree murder, which would have carried a mandatory life sentence without parole.
 

But shortly before her 2012 trial, Bustamante pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and armed criminal action.
 

She was sentenced on the murder charge to life in prison with the chance of parole, plus 30 years for the other charge.
 
Several months after Bustamante pleaded guilty, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a separate case that juveniles cannot face automatic life sentences without the possibility of parole.
 
Bustamante then got a new attorney, who claimed her original public defenders were ineffective.


At a court hearing in January, the now 20-year-old Bustamante testified that she wouldn't have accepted the plea deal had she known about the possibility for the nation's high court to wipe out mandatory life sentences for juveniles convicted of murder.
 
But Charles Moreland, one of her original attorneys, testified that they had talked to her about the issues pending before the Supreme Court.


He said Bustamante 'stood a very strong risk of being found guilty' by jurors of first-degree murder had she not pleaded guilty to the lesser charge.
 
Cole County Circuit Judge Pat Joyce wrote in a decision dated Thursday, but released today, that Bustamante's request to set aside her guilty plea and sentence was 'meritless' and her original attorneys weren't deficient.  ::monkeyscissors:: 


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577964/Teenage-thrill-killer-spend-35-years-bars-choking-stabbing-nine-year-old-neighbor-judge-denies-new-trial.html#ixzz2vcxWmfke
 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Snipped from the article above posted by Toler:
 ::snipping3::
At a court hearing in January, the now 20-year-old Bustamante testified that she wouldn't have accepted the plea deal had she known about the possibility for the nation's high court to wipe out mandatory life sentences for juveniles convicted of murder.
 
But Charles Moreland, one of her original attorneys, testified that they had talked to her about the issues pending before the Supreme Court.


He said Bustamante 'stood a very strong risk of being found guilty' by jurors of first-degree murder had she not pleaded guilty to the lesser charge.

 
Cole County Circuit Judge Pat Joyce wrote in a decision dated Thursday, but released today, that Bustamante's request to set aside her guilty plea and sentence was 'meritless' and her original attorneys weren't deficient. 
 ::snipping3::


 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -
Post by: Sister on March 13, 2014, 10:43:17 AM

Thank goodness, there are still judges with a brain!

 ::justice2nj2::