Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Reality Check

The war has begun. Israel is being attacked from the south and from the north. And soon the United States may have to back Israel and fight Iran and Syria in Israel. Syria is no problem but war with Iran will be a huge conflict, considering they have said they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and that they are making an nuclear bomb.

Hamas, unprovoked, kidnapped an Israeli soldier and killed a young Israeli settler. Israel demanded the soldier be returned and Hamas talked about a prisoner exchange. Israel would not negotiate and moved into Gaza.

Then Hezbollah guerillas from Lebanon, unprovoked, crossed into Israel on Wednesday and captured/kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed three others. Hezbollah is substantially backed by Syria and Iran and is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. The group holds posts in Lebanon's government. Lebanon used to be known as the Paris of the east but has been "occupied" by Syria since the mid 70s. Again, Israel demanded that the soldiers be returned and Hezbollah talked about a prisoner exchange. Israel would not negotiate and Israeli warplanes and gunboats pounded more than 30 targets in southern Lebanon.  and Israeli leaders promised Lebanon a painful response for the capture of the soldiers.

The latest attack comes after Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called the soldiers' capture "an act of war." The raid was "not a terror attack, but an operation of a sovereign state without any reason or provocation," he said. "The Lebanese government, which Hezbollah is part of, is trying to undermine the stability of the region, and the Lebanese government will be responsible for the consequences." Olmert and his Cabinet prepared to approve more military action in Lebanon - a second front in the fight against Islamic militants by Israel, which already is waging an operation to free a captured soldier in the Gaza Strip.

This is what happened. Hamas and Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers and would not return them. Those are the pure and simple facts. But I already hear the news stations painting Israel as the aggressor. Online news sites seem to be doing the same thing.

Israel is not the aggressor. Israel has a peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan so they won't join in the attack. But there is no telling what Syria and Iran will do. If things get bad, will the United States back Israel and thus get into a war with Iran?

LV,  I don't think we have a choice, sadly enough, though they are our most purposeful fight!  Again, I said we are close to WWWIII..  What you mention is only one fight on the horizon.  China and Russia are trying to ease sanctions agains N. Korea,  then there is Iran,  Pakistan and India, Afganistan is seeing a rise in the Taliban. On and on, on the news.

We are committed to Israel, there is no way we cannot defend them if push comes to shove, we HAVE to.  But think what will happend if/when we do?  Look at what we are already fighting in the Middle East.  We are already stretched so thin, we can only pray our allies will back us up.  Strangely, I haven't heard much from the UK lately....

I am in complete favor of protecting Isreal...

This thing has spiraled out of control. The last thing that should ever have been done was play a game of oneupmanship with Israel.

They know they have to protect themselves and they will at all cost.

Who knew with Sharon in a coma that war would begin?

Israel Hits Lebanon After Troops Snatched
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/12/D8IQPH280.html

Israel bombed and shelled southern Lebanon and sent ground troops over the border for the first time in six years Wednesday after Hezbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers. The fighting killed eight Israeli soldiers and three Lebanese.

Hezbollah's brazen cross-border raid opened a second front for the Israeli army. The army is now fighting Islamic militants in both Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, where it is looking for another soldier who was captured more than two weeks ago by Hamas-linked militants.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called the Hezbollah raid an "act of war" by Lebanon and threatened "very, very, very painful" retaliation.

(http://www.breitbart.com/images/2006/7/12/D8IQPH280/D8IQPH280_preview.jpg)

(more)

Bomb Destroys Palestinian Foreign Ministry

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/12/D8IQO4SOO.html

A bomb dropped by an Israeli warplane destroyed the Palestinian Foreign Ministry building in Gaza City early Thursday.

The bomb collapsed the building and caused widespread destruction in the area. The Palestinian foreign minister is Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar.

The Israeli military confirmed it carried out an airstrike on the Palestinian Foreign Ministry, noting that it is "led by Hamas."

(more)

Hamas Leader Badly Hurt in Israeli Bombing

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/12/D8IQP2182.html

A Hamas militant leader who has topped Israel's most-wanted list for a decade was badly wounded and underwent four hours of spinal surgery Wednesday after being wounded in an Israeli airstrike, security officials said.

The top fugitive, Mohammed Deif, could end up paralyzed, Palestinian security officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss his condition. Wednesday's blast marked the army's fourth attempt to kill Deif, held responsible for suicide bombings in Israel. In a 2002 missile strike, he lost an eye.

(http://www.breitbart.com/images/2006/7/12/D8IQP2182/D8IQP2182_preview.jpg)

(more)

There should be no question that we will defend Israel, none have been  better allies to us than Israel and England.  Israel is our only true ally in that part of the world.

All political affiliations aside please, I found this piece on CNN today to reflect what I feel so sadly and also with great fear today.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/13/greenfield.mideast/index.html

It's so hard for CNN, the Washington Post and NYT just to say those words, "terrorist."  

That's fine.  CNN allowed and knew about Hussein killing his own people and allowed it so he would allowe them to remain country.  CNN is shameless.

Dear Nonesuche,

Thank you for the CNN article written by Jeff Greenfield. Especially this part: "During a question-and-answer session between Olmert and the Nobel laureates, an Israeli economist and passionate supporter of the West Bank settlers excoriated Olmert for the idea of giving back Gaza and parts of the West Bank. Look, Olmert said, I know all this land is ours, given to us by God, but it's a step we must make in order to try for peace."

Israel has tried to make peace. As I wrote earlier, it has never before happened in the world that a country has responded to attacks by fighting back and conquering the areas from which the attacks came - and then gave some of the conquered areas back. Israel fought the Egyptians and conquered the entire Sinai peninsula to the Suez Canal. They bombed the Egyptian airplanes before they could even take off. And then in order to make a peace treaty with Egypt, they gave the Sinai back. Israel also captured the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and East Jerusalem as a result of the 1967 War.

To this very day, it is said that Israel is "occupying" these areas. Occupying? NOOOOOO. These are conquered areas.

Israel gave Gaza back to make peace. Previously, Yasser Arafat (the terrorist who won a Nobel Peace Prize) was exiled in Tunis because Jordan threw Arafat out due to the trouble he caused. What did Arafat do in Gaza? He authorized attacks on Israel. When he died, there was hope for peace. But the elected officials could not control Hamas.

Regarding East Jerusalem, when Arabs held this part of the city where the Western Wall (Wailing Wall) is - a holy site to Jews because it is the only remaining part of the original biblical temple, they prohibited Jews from visiting the Wall. When Israel took back East Jerusalem, did they prohibit Arabs from visiting their holy shrine, the Temple Mount? No. That is not something a civilized country would do.

The world was so against Israel for fighting terrorism until September 11. It took that event for the world to recognize what Israel has been through.

Now in the midst of Israel giving back land and making concessions, they are attacked by Hamas and Hezbollah.

This is something I cannot believe: The UN Security Council demanded Israel halt its attacks in Gaza. The United States vetoed that resolution. This is a good example of how the world regards Israel as the aggressor no matter what the true facts are. Israel was attacked and the UN demands they don't fight back and defend itself. The European Union reportedly condemned the fighting and criticized Israel for using what it called "disproportionate" force.

Israel said that at least one of the missiles that hit Haifa Thursday was fired by members of the Iranian Guard. These Iranian Guard units are stationed in Southern Lebanon. Iran's President Ahmadinejad has repeatedly said that it is Iran's plan to destroy Israel. Appearing on Sean Hannity’s Radio Show on Thursday, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich said that we in the US and the world have to decide whether we are on the side of civilization or with the terrorists. Sounds like what Bush said after September 11, either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.

I see what is obvious, something the world is not quite mentioning yet - the United States is at war with Iran.

LV... speaking of all of this, did you ever do any research on Barak Obama?

Louise, Condi vetoed that UN resolution.  Condi is not soft on terror.

Saudis are criticizing Hisbollah for their actions and saying that taking the Israeli soldiers is not legitimate.  I think that means the Saudis will be turn their heads when Israel flies the jets into Iran.

Thanks, TylerRose, for letting me know it was Condi who did the veto.  
xoxoxoxox

Mrs. Red,

No, I have not done research on Barrack Obama. I remembered your warning and got the creeps whenever I thought him. But I should do the research so I can know what you are talking about.

With Love

Thanks for the reminder.

Tyler,

I guess I've become such a jaded realist now, that yes it's shameless but every media outlet seems to have some measure of dirty hands of late. It's like who is next, the NYTimes one day, CNN the next, then the WPost....a discouraging cycle. There seem to be no impartial journalists, at least not those with high visibility or even power any longer.

I really think the word "extremists" that Greenberg utilizes fits my palate better as I ponder history and now consequences of the unrest in the middle east. Last night while discussing the day's events with my daughter, she countered back in frustration as youth and naivete can do so often "why does the world persecute Israel?". I can see how she feels this way, she had more than a few troubling questions regarding Hitler's rise to tyranny as well, back in high school.

If one looks at the issues at base level, it begins with extremists who then advance terrorism to force their beliefs above all others regardless of the cost to others. I am beginning to believe even within our own churches we could have prevented some of this, for there are extremists everywhere even in the US, just look at the abortion bombings in the last decade in the US.

Sadly, it is likely too late for our world to learn such an important lesson.

Louise,

I really appreciate you posting such a personal perspective, I plan to share that with my daughter, for she is anxious to understand better what the plight of Israel has been.

It is such a tragedy.

I am praying that they really did get the head of Hezbollah today.

US, major allies differ in response to Israeli attack

The world splitting on Israel's plight.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/14/060714155753.g7u4vpr6.html

It's becoming more obvious what lies ahead.  

God promised to protect Israel....

Dear Red,

You wrote: This thing has spiraled out of control. The last thing that should ever have been done was play a game of oneupmanship with Israel. Who knew with Sharon in a coma that war would begin?
**************

Ariel Sharon  served as Prime Minister of Israel, from March 2001 until April 2006. When Ariel Sharon had the stroke and didn't wake up, I was not only worried for him and his two sons, but for what would be next in Israel. I never heard of Ehud Olmert but after hearing he was Sharon's right hand man I felt better about him. When Sharon left the Likud political party and founded Kadima, Olmert followed him. There was an election and Olmert's party won.

However, Olmert does not have the same gravitas as Sharon. No one could follow in the footsteps of the Lion of Israel, as Sharon was known. Sharon fought alongside Menachim Begin in the 1948 war for Israel's independence. After that, he had a brilliant military career and also held high positions in the government. He was a legend. During his lengthy career, Sharon was a highly controversial figure among many factions both inside and outside Israel. His supporters view him as a leader who strove to establish peace without sacrificing Israel's security. Many Israelis likewise consider him a war hero who helped defend the country during some of its greatest struggles.

If Sharon were still in power, I can't imagine that he would be doing anything different from Olmert is doing.  But like I said, Sharon had a mega watt reputation and enemies feared him and perhaps Hamas and Hezbollah would have thought twice before they risked the wrath of Ariel Sharon.

Dihannah1,

Thank you for posting that article. Yes, the world is spitting on Israel. Major US allies have condemned the ferocity of Israel's military attack on Lebanon, revealing a clear split with Washington's moderate call for restraint. It was not stated anywhere that Hamas and Hezbollah attacked Israel first. This is what I've been afraid of. This is why I've been posting like crazy on this subject.

1) As the civilian death toll in Lebanon mounted above 60 and Israeli warplanes hit buildings, roads and Beirut airport, French President Jacques Chirac questioned whether Israel was seeking Lebanon's destruction. "I find honestly -- as all Europeans do -- that the current reactions are totally disproportionate," he said in a live television interview on France's national Bastille Day.

2) "In my view, Israel is making a mistake," said Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. "It will only lead to an escalation of the violence."

3) In Italy, Prime Minister Romano Prodi said he recognized Israel's legitimate concerns and condemning the kidnapping of the soldiers. But "we deplore the escalation in the use of force, the serious damage to Lebanese infrastructure and the civilian casualties of the raids," the Italian leader added.

4) The Vatican secretary of state, Angelo Sodano, said: "The Holy See deplores the attack on Lebanon, a free and sovereign country," adding that he felt for the people "who had already suffered in defense of their independence."

5) Germany called on Israel to consider the longer term impact of its strike on Lebanon. "Here we think care should be taken about the situation in Lebanon, which is a fragile entity as a state and could be further destabilized."

6) Iran, which with Syria is a sponsor of Hezbollah, called on the United Nations to step in. "The international community and the UN must intervene to stop this crime," Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said during a visit to Greece.

7) In Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim state, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was quoted by the state news agency Antara as saying: "Indonesia repeats its call for Israel to stop its military action."

8) British Prime Minister Tony Blair called for restraint on all sides but kept closer to the US line. "I totally understand the desire and the need for Israel to defend itself properly and I also understand the plight of Lebanon and the Lebanese government, not to say the many Palestinians that are suffering as well," Blair said in London.

9) Russian President Vladimir Putin, who was meeting with Bush before hosting a summit of Group of Eight powers in Saint Petersburg, said he would formally place the Middle East crisis on the agenda. "I consider that all sides implicated in this conflict should immediately stop military action," Putin said.

Hello Nonesuche;

You wrote: Last night while discussing the day's events with my daughter, she countered back in frustration as youth and naivete can do so often "why does the world persecute Israel?"
******************

Nonesy, your daughter's comments are a perfect example of the thoughts of a logical person.  You raised a smart girl.

TylerRose,

Thank you for posting that the Saudis are on our side and won't join in the fight.

I'm sure you've heard now, Syria has openly said they will do anything to support Hezbollah now.   Iran has said if Israel hits Syria, they will attack.  It's heading for a full out attack on Israel.  The G8 was supposed to discuss the nuclear standoff with Iran.  The US will need to join the fight soon.  It's an all out World War....

BTW the way LV,  I've learned alot from you on some history of the conflicts from your posts.  Thanks for posting your wisdom...

Just an FYI - It wasn't Condy either who vetoed either.

From Friends of Israel:
http://sites.silaspartners.com/CC_Content_Page/0,,PTID306608|CHID556146,00.html

The U.S. has vetoed a UN Security Council resolution that would have demanded a halt to Israel’s military offensive in the Gaza Strip.  Ten members voted in favor of the Arab-backed resolution, four abstained, and U.S. Ambassador John Bolton cast a lone “no” vote, calling the measure unbalanced.  Israel’s UN Ambassador Dan Gillerman praised the U.S. for its “bold stand.”

Iran has been at war with the USA for decades. They ordered and funded the murder of 19 Airman at the Khobar Towers; and the blowup of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon. Louis Freeh, former head of the FBI recently reported that the FBI had made a conclusive finding to this effect, and then President Cliinton buried it.

They are at war with us now in Iraq, by sending in Iranian nationals and others trained in Iran. It is time to go in and clean out the fanatic mullahcracy in Tehran before they start lobbing nukes at us and Israel.

This was a strategic move on the part of the USA and Israel, to occupy Iraq so they would not be able to get their weapons they took into Syria, keeping them busy as well as Afghanastan by sending our troops there, while allowing Israel to take care of business.  Now that the Saudis have promised to look the other way, some mullahs may have brown drawers when a Patriot goes into Damascus.

TylerRose,

Very interesting post, but I'm not sure that I understand all of it. I am not debating anything at all. Just trying to get what you wrote.

I think you are right when you say Iran is sending terrorists into Iraq. I agree we have to get rid of the fanatic mullahcracy (good phrasing) in Iran but how are we gonna do it? Wage a military campaign against Iran and bomb them?

It never occurred to me that the USA and Israel planned the strategic move to occupy Iraq but it makes sense. But I don't quite get what you mean by the next sentence " ... so they would not be able to get their weapons they took into Syria." I thought the reason why weapons of mass destruction were never found in Iraq was because they moved them to Syria on purpose.

Didn't we send troops to Afghanistan to find Bin Laden after September 11?

Sorry to be so dense, but what business did Israel take care of when we sent troops to Afghanistan and engaged Iraq?

I could be having a blonde evening.  

Thanks in advance.

With love, Louise

Sorry, Louise.  It did read "ragged."  If we had not gone into Iraq, they would still have their WMD, which they moved into Syria before we got there.  Syria and Iran have been in bed with this little covert action for a long time.  Saddam was being protected by Syria who took the WMDs so we would not find them.  Now if we go in and take their weapons, they do not have them to have Hamas or Hizbollah.  They are in Syria, but then we have to consider Syria.  We smoozed the Saudis so we could use their air space.  When Hizbollah and Hamas became to vile this past week not only with Israel but with India a well, someone had to do something.  It looks like the Indians are going to sit on their hands.  

Let's compare Israel to Rhode Island.  About the same size.  If the rest of the United States turned on RI, which is the comparison of the whole Arab world who was bent on destroying Israel, they needed some help.  If we moved the Iraqi threat and Afghan threat, made the Saudis less of a threat, promised to buy oil from Putin, then if Israel is under attack, she has a better chance of survival, inasmuch as Bush and Condi have taken care of somewhat taken care of North Korea at the United Nations and Putin wants to join the WTO, so everyone needs his help.  It took a lot of seeing whole pictures and not just snapshots for the admnistration to see this far into the future, and I think Condi who is diplomatic can still call on Israel for restraint publicly but is capable of strategy.

I do not think we planned it that way, let me just say that.  I think we were trying to remove threats to the world and in doing so, we removed threats from Israel.  We went into Afghanistan because of bin Ladin but remember he is supporting Hamas and Hizbollah and providing them with weapons and funding.  So if our troops are in Iraq and Afghan, then those two countries pose less of a threat to the region.  It just developed into a strategy as time passed.  Maybe that makes no sense, but I see it as a lot of roadmapping to ridding the world of the Islamofascists.

Let's all just continually pray that a war can be averted.  Prayer can stop wars.   In the last war (1973?) the  Arab coalition pulled a sneak attack on Israel during a holy day weekend.  Israel barely tweaked through, but won that time (a fantastic story, really).  They were, however, prepared to use their nuclear weapons as a last resort.  Thank God that was not necessary.  Let's pray it never will happen.

Louise, I think you hit on a key factor.  The enemies of Israel feared Sharon.  Now that he is no longer in charge, they are all trying to see how far they can push Israel.  Just as Russia used to do whenever we had a newly elected president here.  

It always amazes me that in the Six Days War, 1967, Israel regained control over the West Bank as well as eastern Jerusalem and the Temple Mount (for the first time since 70 AD) all of which Jordan had controlled for a long time.  Then Moshe Dayan immediately turned around and agreed to allow the Arabs to retain "administration" of the site to placate the Muslims...it remained under the official control of King Hussein of Jordan.  Israel has given in every step of the way to maintain peace in their own country.  

And it also amazes me that Israel was able to come out victorious in the Yom Kippur War in 1973.    

In 1993 Yassar Arafat signed the Oslo Peace Accord with Israel.  Arafat was criticized by other Arab nations.  He reportedly explained in a mosque that he signed the treaty in accordance with the "Quraysh Model."  The Quraysh Model:  First, peace with the enemy, then, when the time is right, overwhelm them.  

"The war is open until Israel ceases to exist and until the last Jew in the world is eliminated."  Hamas Leader (Wall Street Journal, December 18, 1992)

Three relevant quotes I came across.  I cannot vouch for them, I simply copied them at the time:


"The governments of the world should know that Islam cannot be defeated.  Islam will be victorious in all the countries of the world, and Islam and the teachings of the Koran will prevail all over the world."  Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran   [So we need to take them very seriously, yes?]


"Over the rest of this decade, the divide between radical Islam and the industrial democracies will become the most destabilizing factor in world affairs."  Joseph de Courcy, Intelligence Digest, January 24, 1992.



"Although its [terrorist organizations'] separate parts may have local objectives and take part in local conflicts, the main motivation deriving the terror network is an anti-western hostility that seeks to achieve nothing less than a reversal of history.  It seeks to roll back the West and install an extremist form of Islam as the dominant power in the world...What is at stake today is nothing less than the survival of our civilization."  Benjamin Netanyahu, Former Prime Minister of Israel


[/i]

I think everyone has gone to bed long ago, and I'm sorry to dominate this thread right now.  But I just have one last thought:  The nations in Europe are included in that "western hostility" Netanyahu speaks of.  They should be waking up to that and opposing the Arab/Muslim hostilities against Israel.  They R Us.

Tyler-

One growing concern I have are the reports by high ranking retired generals that Hezbollah actually is supplied around 100M annually from bin Laden, but actually is more disciplined/better trained/better organized that Al-Q. Also the cells of Hezbollah in the US are far more all of the above and hence a greater threat, than those of Al-Q.

It seems Hezbollah was upset by 9/11 for he felt it impeded his progress in establishing those cells in the US, due to greater scrutiny of our borders and cell activity with the advent of Homeland Security. That being said, it's been reported this week that Hezbollah made strong progress with his cells prior to 9/11 so this is perceived as the greater current threat within our borders than Al-Qaeda.

Just an aside here but due to a biotech investment in my father's estate, we had some insight into a six-state consortium crafting their Homeland Security planning. One attack profile they are very concerned regarding is possible chemical attack within the US, at a sports arena and particularly a NASCAR event? I think most of us would be shocked by the planning and resources which has been nationally applied toward preparing a defense against.

So when Dihannah1 has posted about the advent of WWIII in this thread, my mind keeps traveling to the real and vivid possibility that indeed this can and may happen, within our own borders also.

No doubt they have been planning to attack us in major sporting events.  They planned that for the World Series in which Bush threw out the pitch folowing 911, but fortunately, their plans were thwarted secondary to our keeping tabs on them.  They also had one planned for a Super Bowl which was thwarted secondary to our allies keeping us informed.

What concerns me is the NYT and WaPo who keep leaking CIA information as to how we are preventing these attacks,  just like Patrick Leahey who went on TV and pronounced how we were keeping tabs on their cell phones.  When he did that they stop communicating via cell phone.  

Thanks to some of our politicians and news media, our ability to track them and prevent attacks is becoming increasingly challening.

It wouldn't be increasingly challenging to deal with the media exposing national secrets if we prosecuted each newspaper, etc., and their executives as TRAITORS during a time of war!  Why are they being handled with kid gloves?

Oh.  PS:  Go Israel!

.
I have so many thoughts on this I don't know where to start.  My oldest son's best friend is Lebanese.  He is Christian, Maronite very old denomination.  His father was a member of the Parliament and they had to evacuate by emergency helicopter when the muslims/Syria/Hezbollah over ran his area.  He grew up in Paris because it was not safe for them to return until the last few years when they did so.

Things were looking so good when they got Syria to leave after that awful assassination that they committed against the most promising moderate Lebanese leader.  And now his family is in danger again and not just from Israeli raids but from the muslim extremists in Lebanon yet again.

As long as the money is pouring into Hezbullah and Hamas, both terrorist organizations, I do not believe they will ever make peace.  But we have those who criticize the international tracing of finances that find who is funding these as well as terrorists in our own country.  They expose how this is done in our newspapers which is an open act of treason.

Arafat went into office not only penniless but a man without a country as none would accept him and he left a six BILLION, that's with a "B" estate.  Why should they stop fighting when they would have to get real jobs and lead boring 9-5 lives like the rest of us??  Dry up the funds as Bush was trying to do and you will make it more difficult for the terrorists for as long as it is lucrative, they will find reasons to fight to get the money and it works every time.

We are in Iraq because we have a president who had the foresight and spine to set our big foot down in the region in the only country we had legitimate reason to do so, Iraq, for regardless of WMD moved to Syria, they were in violation of the terms of the former cease fire.  At least he knew we had better be in the region to protect not only Israel but our own oil supply should it come to that.

I wish Bush had replaced Tenet soon after 9/11 was stabilized as the CIA is to operate at the "pleasure of the President" and we seem to have a few there with questionable loyalties left over from the Clinton administrating which could only look the other way as all of this was put into place and the actions begun for the attacks now taking place.

I fear for my friend in Lebanon but that country will never be OK until those put in place to run things and abuse the Christians are removed.  Get Hezbollah out of the Bekka Valley and peace may return to that region for they robbed the Christians in that region, who date back almost to the time of Christ on earth, and murdered and slaughtered them to steal their region for a better shot at Israel.  

Yes, I do ramble but as I said, my thoughts on all of this are many and I tried to touch on a few of the more important ones.

JMO as always.

.

Good thoughts all.

Louise can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Jewish Bible speaks of a time for war and a time for peace.

The Koran speaks of war all the time until the Jews/Christians (infadels, if you will) are totally eliminated.

Was there another tribe that believed there was no time for war, only peace?  I am sure there was but they were anihilated before they were allowed to build an organization or write a Bible.

The US, at one time, believed along the lines of the Jewish Bible,  a time for war and a time for peace. Oh wait.  We might be the society that was eliminated before it had time to write its Bible, if we do not wake up and smell the coffee or read the Koran and see what it has intended for us.

We need to think seriously on that, lest our survival become short-lived.

I so agree tyler, at some point this drills down to lowest common denominators and like you posted, we either accomplish this or we give up to the most tragic ending.

I believe we are already in the beginnings of WW111 and have been for awhile.
The biggest problem we have in THIS country is there are those that refuse to believe this. Heck, a lot of people don't even believe we are in a "War on Terror".  Very dangerous. We could collectively lose our PC arses if we aren't careful.
I also believe the Newspeople AND the original sources of the classified info should be thrown in jail and tried for treason and hung if necessary.
When It comes to my beloved USA, I do not have a  bit of sympathy for any traitor, domestic or foreign.

My words to Israel..."GIT 'er DONE"
 

And good evening monkeys!.
I haven't posted much since I had oral surgery a couple of weeks ago and yesterday I tripped and fell FLAT. What a site. Glad I was alone and only the dogs and cat were here to laugh at me! lol! BUT...I can't move! I think I bruised every rib I own, not to mention my knee and the arm I had surgery on. Oh well. WHaddamess.

Louise..I don't know if I ever told you, but I thoroughly enjoy your posts. You are a very insightful and intelligent woman.

Oh, and before I have to go, I wonder if Israel will get overflight rights if it becomes necessary to take out Iran's nuclear sites?

I do believe if Tel Aviv is hit (which they now fear may happen) that the retaliation will be fierce and I think this could involve Iran since there are at least 100 Iranian Republican Guard helping fire these missiles from Lebanon .

Tylergal, since you are reading the Bible, here are a few more interesting quotes (my comments in brackets):

1.  This is what the Lord says, He who appoints the sun to shine by day, Who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar--the Lord Almighty is His name:  "Only if these decrees vanish from My sight," declares the Lord, "will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before Me."   Jehovah, The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Jeremiah 31:35-36 NIV


2.  They say, "Come, let us wipe them out as a nation; let the name of Israel be remembered no more."  They conspire with one accord; against You they make a covenant--the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites [Arabs], Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal and Ammon and Amalek [Jordan], Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre [Lebanon]; Assyria [Syria] also has joined them..."  Psalm 83:4-8   [This was prophecy for the future...our times?]


3.  "I will lay waste to your cities, and you will become a desolation.  Then you will know that I am the Lord.  Because you have had everlasting enmity and have delivered the sons of Israel to the power of the sword at the time of their calamity, at the time of the punishment of the endtime, therefore, as I live," declares the Lord God, "I will give you over to bloodshed, and bloodshed will pursue you; since you have not hated bloodshed, therefore bloodshed will pursue you."  Ezekiel 35:4-6


4.  [This is under the category "Who owns the land?"]  

"...Surely in the fire of My jealousy I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom...who appropriated MY land for themselves as a possession with wholehearted joy and scorn of soul, to drive it out for a prey...Therefore, thus says the Lord God, "I have sworn that surely the nations which are around you will themselves endure their insults.  But you, O mountains of Israel, you will put forth your branches and bear your fruit for My people Israel; for they will soon come."  

and


"Therefore, say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord God, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations, where you went...for I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, bring you into your own land.'"  Ezekiel 22  [Emphasis added.  This particular bit of prophecy actually began to be fulfilled in May of 1948 when the United Nations established Israel as a nation again for the first time since 70 AD when the second Temple was destroyed and the Jews scattered.]


5.  Re Ariel Sharon:  Western media thought Ariel Sharon was being sarcastic and evasive when a newsman asked him if he would give the Palestinians a state.  He answered, "There already is a state of Palestine -- it's called Jordan."  Which is a historical fact;  any student of history can look at how the United Nations divided up the middle east into separate countries after WWII.  

 
tidy
 

Sorry.  I left out the overall quotes on the first two, and failed to cut off the italics at the end of the next to last quote.

Art Colley, good to see you. Sorry you have had problems.  My favorite animal people:  ArtColley & Tidycat.

Read on in Ezekiel.  Chapters 38 and 39, correlate with Revelations 20.

Thanks, Tidy, lots of reading for me.

Tylergal, thanks.  

ArtColley, good to see you...been a long time!  Hope you are okay after your fall, with no serious injuries.  I agree with what you wrote, and hope we are not already in WWIII.  What a very scary time.  And with what someone said (Tyler or None) about Hezbollah cells in this country, every scarier.

Pray, pray, pray.

tidy

Goodnight, Tidy Kitty.  I think we have to be supportive of our president and his decision-making.  He has had more on his plate than any president since Lincoln.  

We must always never forget that Al-Quaida and Hizb'Allah are just a footprint apart.

My Art !!! {{{ HUGS }}}

I'm so sorry to hear about the spill you took, I hope you can take time to slow down and heal silly !!

Like you, I think these fine points regarding Iran are key to this, plus it just pained me to hear that thanks to China <again> Hezbollah has plenty of fine rockets to launch as well?

Get well soon !!

Tidy-

Thank you for these biblical references, I had forgotten several  :oops: but want to share these with friends as well.

Like you, I think this has been inevitable and escalating to this for some time now. One can only wonder what the next 30 to 60 days may prove to hold for this globe in terms of affirming all of this?

Artcolley,

Thank you so much.

With love, Louise

*********************
Louise..I don't know if I ever told you, but I thoroughly enjoy your posts. You are a very insightful and intelligent woman.

You all have so many wonderful points and insight.  

All I have to say about the media and those who continue to leak information, besides they should be prosecuted, I think we can thank the UCLA for forcing beliefs of a communist state if we allow our country  to 'private' information.  They say "if our government can do this now, what will they do next?"  My answer, as I've said before, I have nothing to hide and if the govt. views my finances, my computer, my phone calls and it saves 1 life, then so be it.  Those who are paranoid, in my mind are hiding things they should be afraid of getting caught.  

People seem to forget out country was founded on Biblical principals, which is why I believe God has blessed us for over 200 yrs.  We are truly a peaceful country, maybe too giving at times.  I get sick of those conspiracy theorists!  Iwas watching a new program of College professors teaching that our government conspired 9/11 or Israel was the true culprit.  How insane can you get!  People need to get a life!
Now that we are taking God out of EVERYTHING, thanks to the far left and ACLU, I don't believe God is going to be there for us as he has been.  Do you blame him?  I do have one question for you all, as I've always wondered, and told various things, is America in the Bible anywhere?
My final thought, as much as violence and innocent people getting killed in Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, wherever, hurts my heart .  I know the Bible says God will protect Israel and I believe in my heart they will prevail.

It's, God forbid,  USA and others I worry about.  I truly feel in my heart we are in WWWIII.  I don't mean to sound like 'end of times' fanatic, but I feel it.  I pray I am wrong.  

One last note.  The news tonight stated Israel shot down a a new bomb Hezbollah has (from Iran or Syria) that could have reached 80 miles.  Much further north in Israel.  It's not hard to imagine they could easily have some chemical weapons on one of these.

Typo Correction above:  ACLU

French expatriates wait to be evacuated Monday from Lebanon near the French Embassy in Beirut.

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/LouiseVargas/20060717080009990010.jpg)

Reminds me of Viet Nam.

There are 25,000 Americans in Lebanon who cannot get out because it is too dangerous. They are told to register at the American Embassy and they never hear back from them.

Dihannah, you asked about the USA in the Bible, and I can find no references, but I find references to Gog & Magog befriending the Arabs.  Gog & Magog, in my understanding are Russia and China.  I hope you also note that they will fall, that God will bring about such an earthquake that the world has never seen, to protect Israel.

On another note in that same vein, my undertanding is that even after this  has happened, there will be another 1000 years.  I do not know what 1000 years is in the Bible, I do well to figure out what a fortnight is.

The devil is allowed to reign for a while.

We cannot fathom an earthquake of that magnitude, but would we have ever thought about the tsnumai and how quickly so many were destroyed.  The Christians were saved and so were many animals.  Strange for man to think that way, how we can see His hand moving in weather.  

Another thing and I hate to really comprehend Biblical text as I am not qualified but I have often thought the "big mosquitoes" are helicopters but they had no way of describing it otherwise in Biblical times.

Thanks for your response Tylergal.  Christians as I believe will be raptured before the 1000 yr. reign.  I believe that things are aligning before the rapture takes place.  But as the Bible says, no man will know the day or time...  He just gives us signals, Israel being one of the main signals.  Your right, gog and magogg,  look closely what is going on with Russia and China and add it to everything else taking place.

Has anybody read the "Left Behind" series?  Those were wonderful, suspensful books, even for those who do not believe in the Bible or the Rapture.  There is alot about the Jews and takes place in Israel.  The writers were very knowedgable of history and the Bible.  I learned a lot from it.  Like I said, even without putting faith in the story of Revelations, it is extremely believable, especially with what we see going on in he world.  I often wonder how anybody can question prophecy, when the Bible has proven correct all these years.  


But then again, people for centruries believed they were living in the "end of times".   However, I am fascinated with the history of the Middle East and curious while watching the current events taking place.  Your posts are very interesting and though provoking.

Art: I certainly hope your feeling better!  I had to laugh about your comment of nobody being around.  How many times have all of us been in that predicament?  So embarrasing.  And I am such a clutz! I wish that was the worst you suffered (the embarrasement)....     :wink:

"If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a
nation gone under." also by... Ronald Reagan

Tyler, Dihannah, LV and  Tidy...

thank you for providing much room for thought... I need to read further.

Dihannah I started the Left Behind Series.. and for whatever reason didn't finish.. but I may pick them back up.

I am learning and adding to my understanding through all of you...

thank you because this is a very troubling time...

Mrs. Red, do read it.  It is an impressive piece of work.

.Australians Want Evacuations Expedited NOW

 

ABC Online

The World Today - Lebanese community calls on PM to redouble evacuation efforts

[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1690720.htm]


The World Today - Wednesday, 19 July , 2006  12:33:00
Reporter: Barney Porter
ELEANOR HALL: Back in Australia, senior members of the Lebanese community have called on Prime Minister John Howard, to redouble his efforts to bring a ceasefire to the region, saying it's time for him to call in some debts from his close friend, US President George W. Bush.

The delegation of Lebanese community representatives says only a ceasefire will ensure the safe evacuation of Australians trapped in the war zone.

And while a ferry contracted by the Federal Government is now scheduled to dock in Beirut this afternoon, the Lebanese leaders described the Government's response to the plight of the Australians still in Lebanon as shamefully slow.

This report from Barney Porter.

BARNEY PORTER: Lebanese community leaders today have made a comparison between the Government's response to the crisis in Lebanon, and another crisis closer to home.

SHAOQUETT MOSELMANE: In East Timor the Federal Government was decisive in its action and Australians were immediately evacuated.

In Lebanon, though, the Federal Government's delayed reaction was so apparent that it can only be described as shameful in the full meaning of the word.

One cannot but be appalled and shocked at our Government's delayed response, let alone the lack of interest shown by our Federal Government.

BARNEY PORTER: Shaoquett Moselmane is the Mayor of the Sydney suburb of Rockdale, and a prominent figure in the local Shi'ite community.

SHAOQUETT MOSELMANE: Here you have over 25,000 holidaying Aussie mums and dads and Aussie kids caught up in terrible and deadly circumstances.

And what does the Federal Government do? It cuts and runs.

BARNEY PORTER: Mr Moselmane has also bitterly criticised the Government over reports that the Australian Embassy in Lebanon closed its doors to concerned Australian tourists, and only left a recorded message directing them to a website of the Department of Foreign Affairs.

SHAOQUETT MOSELMANE: And that, ladies and gentlemen, was the best our Government could do. It was a shameful and disgusting act on the part of the Federal Government as it failed to act in the same manner as other foreign governments had done, giving their citizens a great sense of worth, pride and dignity as they deserved.

BARNEY PORTER: The Federal Government has defended its actions, pointing to the scheduled arrival in Beirut this afternoon of a ferry it's chartered from Turkey to help evacuate stranded Australians.

Dr Abraham Constatine is the President of the World Lebanese Cultural Union. He says the Australian Government should push for an immediate ceasefire.

ABRAHAM CONSTATINE: Once the ceasefire is in effect, we can bring people from the north, we can bring people from the south. I mean, people from one village in the south can't get to the next village, which is 5-10 minutes away, because roads are cut, all the infrastructure is gone.

So how do we expect thousands of people to get from the south to Beirut or to get from the north to Beirut to catch a boat or catch a bus?

And I'm sure our Prime Minister has a lot of favours to ask from George Bush.

BARNEY PORTER: Dr Constatine also says he rejects suggestions the Israeli military action is designed to send a message to the region.

ABRAHAM CONSTATINE: Well here they are bombing civilians in Lebanon and killing Lebanese civilians, and the US President is blaming Iran and Syria for the problems in Lebanon, so why doesn't he deal with those two countries directly instead of causing chaos in our land called Lebanon.

BARNEY PORTER: There have been calls by some world leaders that Israel's actions have been disproportionate. Is there any criticism of Hezbollah's actions, the original kidnapping of the two soldiers, the rocket attacks on Israel?

ABRAHAM CONSTATINE: Well, everything can be resolved through diplomatic and political means. We don't need a huge scale war destroying a whole country for the sake of discussing the fate of two soldiers.

I believe the plan was much bigger than the two soldiers, and now we're seeing it happen.

BARNEY PORTER: And do you think Hezbollah should pull back from southern Lebanon and allow the Lebanese army to ensure security in that area?

ABRAHAM CONSTATINE: At the moment, with the chaos present, we need an international intervention, we need solutions to be put to the Lebanese Government and assist the Lebanese Government in creating an atmosphere of peace and stop the killing of Lebanese civilians.

BARNEY PORTER: You're saying the Australian Government should push harder for a ceasefire, but Israel has said it's not yet ready to have a ceasefire. What else can the Australian Government do?

ABRAHAM CONSTATINE: Well, you've got to keep insisting. The more you insist, maybe, maybe we get a window of opportunity.

Maybe they feel in their heart that yes, they should stop for 24-hours and allow innocent people to escape from their areas, to allow Australians and foreign nationals to go back to their families, whether in Australia, America, Canada or anywhere else in the world.

They must see within their heart a kind spot to allow these people to escape.

ELEANOR HALL: And that's Dr Abraham Constatine, the President of the World Lebanese Cultural Union, ending that report by Barney Porter.



© 2006 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Copyright information: http://abc.net.au/common/copyrigh.htm
Privacy information: http://abc.net.au/privacy.htm

Thanks ANNA for posting that.. very eye opening.

I read the first 3-4 books of the Left Behind series and found them very good.  My daughter had them on tape and listened to them while driving to work.  They give a good view of what could happen.  As long as people keep in mind that they are fiction.  Not everybody agrees about the rapture and/or exactly what the events in Revelation could really mean.  But we may be in the end times, and I personally believe we are based on the fact that Israel has once again become a nation, and the Jews have been re-gathering there, as predicted, and the Arab nations encircling them keep on attacking them...all as predicted in the Bible.  

I only discovered in the last year or so that all the prophets, including Psalms, included predictions regarding the first coming of Christ, right along with predictions regarding the second coming of Christ.  Even Christ himself, of course, made predictions regarding His second Coming.  I find all of this fascinating.

tidy

Anna,

You wrote: The World Today - Lebanese community calls on Australian PM to redouble evacuation efforts.  

I never heard this. What has the Australian PM done so far that he wants to "redouble" efforts?  Do you think that means he will send cruise ships, airplanes and helicopters to Lebanon to evacuate Australians stranded there?

The United States has told the 25,000 Americans in Lebanon to stay where they are because it is too dangerous to evacuate them.  If Bush cannot get Americans out of Lebanon, how could he help John Howard? It's just not possible right now.

We are at war. This is bigger than any previous war in terms of technology and tactics. And it's not even a war between Hezbollah, Israel and Hamas ... it is a sneaky proxy war between Iran and the USA. And Israel got sucked into a trap.

The world has changed and the stakes are nuclear. It's sad, distressing, scary, depressing - and we are helpless.

God bless Australia.

Middle East Report

Dear Monkeys,

Today I received an email from people I know who were directly in the line of fire in Israel and escaped.

A little background. My daughter and I have known a Rabbi and his wife for over 25 years. Rabbi Shlomo Schwartz (known as Schwartzie) and his wife, Olivia are known far and wide in the US and Israel in orthodox circles. You can google them. They used to be part of Chabad but the rules were so strict that they broke off from Chabad and formed "The Chai Center" a nonprofit organization devoted to helping Jews in all ways. I'm on the Chai Center's mailing list, which is maintained by one of their sons, Mendel who is about 35. They have twelve children, all married except for the two youngest boys, Jakov (about 13) and Berel (around 16).

Every summer the Rabbi and Olivia travel to Safed (also known as Zefat) which is considered a very holy city in terms of the Kaballa. They teach at the Ascent Institute for several weeks and then come back to Los Angeles. This year they took Berel with them.

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/lgcolor/ilcolor.htm
If you look at the map, you will see how far north Zefat is and how close to the border of Lebanon. Hezbollah's rockets/missles have reached Nazareth and Haifa (on the map it is called Hefa). Zefat is north of Nazareth and Haifa.

This morning I received an email from Mendel with the title "Schwartzie & Olivia Alive in Jerusalem." Below is the email from Olivia.

****************
From Olivia:

Thank you, thank you to all our many friends and extended family who have called the Chai Center concerned for our safety in the holy city of Safed.

Every summer for eleven years Shlomo and I have been invited to be scholars in residence at the Ascent Institute in Safed. Ascent has programs for Israelis, Russians, Soldiers, and American tourists giving them a spiritual boost. The Russian program is run for the elderly who are refugees from the gulag who live on a minimal pension and are paid to study in the morning and given a hot lunch during the day. Sixty or more soldiers a day (and sometimes 2 groups a day) come to Ascent and are greeted by beautiful Safed musicians, being taught classes by wonderful teachers. The Israelis that attend all open their hearts to see the beauty of their heritage that feeds their souls especially to those that recently returned from India. All the folks that attend Ascent are learning and loving what it means to be a Jew. This is where Shlomo & I have the treat to assist the Ascent Institute and change people's lives daily.

TODAY THE DOORS OF ASCENT ARE CLOSED. On Wednesday (July 12) we started hearing Katusha rockets from the distance. Then we began seeing fires across the far mountains of Meron where the bombs hit. Meron (20 minutes from Safed) is the grave of the author of the Kaballa - Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai.  This continued all day and night. Safed has been known as the most peaceful town in Israel, a town of artists, kabbalists, and musicians with ancient cobblestone streets, beautiful mountains & trees. Total peace. As soon as we arrive each summer I breathe deeply of the peace that you breathe in with the air.

Thursday afternoon (July 13), I am in the kitchen talking with the cooks, beautiful women born in Safed, when we hear a loud unmistakable terrifying noise of a bomb nearby, then another, and another, and the old building that we were standing in began shaking. As everybody started panicking looking and calling for their children I hear the director of Ascent frantically speaking to his son over the phone that a bomb hit inches from their house. I ran with the director to his car torn between my son Berel who was white as a ghost and helping out where a bomb had fallen.

Shlomo took care of Berel with the people staying at Ascent and I went with the director to his house. We drove through the town and saw the remains of a Katusha rocket by the bus station. It was now a large tin can. People were hurt there. At the director's home we saw the Katusha landed where minutes before their children were playing. I entered the house, the mother was sobbing when she saw us. Every window in the house was shattered shrapnel. After cleaning we went back to Ascent to help calm people there. Many were starting to flee Safed. Others too immobilized by shock or unable to move out of town were witness to the all afternoon and into the night of soft whistling of missiles and then the explosion of the bomb landing. I never thought that I would ever have to sleep in a bomb shelter.

Many of us packed in tightly and we all bonded very deeply. At one point in between a few rockets Shlomo went to the porch of Ascent as I was on the phone with our son Mendel in L.A. We then heard a boom and Shlomo thought the hit was further away and then I heard another and yelled for Shlomo to run to the shelter as I saw the red flame of the missile fly and land. The phone then went dead. Poor Mendel was frantically trying to re-connect not knowing if his parents survived. (five minutes later we spoke and said we were OK)

Friday was a mass exodus from Safed. Shlomo & I escaped to Hebron where it was quite and peaceful. I am having our women’s retreat at the Dead Sea this week and Shlomo will be in Jerusalem. Everyday I wonder about the elderly Russian men & woman in Safed. How are they? Are they getting food? Will they survive the bombardment?

We all must take upon ourselves a mitzvah and dedicate it to the peace and safety of Israel. Woman can light Shabbat candles before sundown and dedicate it to the peace and safety of the Jews in Israel. Men can put on tefillin, and/or teach somebody how to put on teffilin.  Put it on everyday except for Shabbat. Give tzedakah. Take a torah study class by your local temple. There are many good deeds out there we can identify with.

With love and peace, Olivia

Louise, thank you so much for sharing that.  That is so very nice and such a beautiful post.  We have no idea how those in Israel suffer. I know there is suffering everywhere, all over the world, but the Jews have had this terrorism in their back door, front door, side yard for years.

What faith, what resolve.

found this at DEBKA

Jordanian military intelligence relayed information that Hamas had recruited a bomb team in the kingdom. It was on its way to cross into Israel for the strike. Israeli and Jordanian border troops are on a high state of preparedness. The potential targets are the southern port of Eilat, its Arava main road link to the north, the Dead Sea, or the Beit Shean Valley on the Jordan River. This information led defense minister Amir Peretz to announce the closure of the West Bank Thursday, July 20.

Israeli security officials have grounds to suspect that the latest Hamas terror initiative is coordinated with Hizballah’s war in the north via the Lebanese group’s operational officers stationed in Nablus and Gaza

LV, thanks for sharing that.  It makes me so sad to see all these people sufferering.  It's also a shame that the innocents of Lebanon who being held hostage by Hezbollah.  I just don't understand why the Govt. does not step in and do something to stop it themselves.  

quote from Anna:
BARNEY PORTER: There have been calls by some world leaders that Israel's actions have been disproportionate. Is there any criticism of Hezbollah's actions, the original kidnapping of the two soldiers, the rocket attacks on Israel?

ABRAHAM CONSTATINE: Well, everything can be resolved through diplomatic and political means. We don't need a huge scale war destroying a whole country for the sake of discussing the fate of two

They just aren't getting it!  

And they are saying there needs to be ceasefire to get their own citizens out?  How is it, every other nation is managing to do it and what a lame excuse for shutting their (Australian embassy) doors, then cutting and running, instead of helping their own citizens???  Blame it on the USA for everything!

Tidy, I should have mentioned that the Left Behind books are fiction,  an oversite on my part.   :wink:  I understand their are people who do not believe in the rapture.  I am a Baptist, so when I read those books, it was very believable for me.  Though I sometimes question how literal those books take it.  Either way, it is great reading!  I finished them all, except for the last chapter of the last book for some reason!  I need to finish it...

Yes, most of the prophecies having already unfolded is fascinating to me too.   I have such a great deal of respect for the Jewish people,  I really would like to learn more specifics about the faith and history.  LV has been very helpful with the recent history in her posts.

Tyler, that info from DEBKA is extremely scary!

Dihannah1, I intend to finish all the Left Behind books.  I found them very well-written and plotted, and quite possible overall.

A great book on the subject of end times, Jews and Arabs/Bible prophecy is Hal Lindsey's The Everlasting Hatred[/].  It starts with Abraham and Sarah and goes through Isaac/Ishmael, Esau/Jacob...explaining the very basics of the hatred between Jews and Arabs.  Then the history of Islam and how it relates to the story.  It has the entire chronology of history up to present of Israel/Palestine after the destruction of the second Temple.  It shows many maps of that area of the world, including all the maps showing land allocated among the countries after WWI and WWI and how Israel's borders just continued (and continue) to shrink.  I don't necessarily buy all of Lindsey's scenarios, but this one is based on fact, from the Bible to world history.  And I'm a history buff.  

On CNN, Anderson Cooper, last night, some guy was giving out some incorrect info.  I have to look it up and send an email.  He indicated that in 1967 Israel decided to push its borders out...thus the war.  Well that's not true.  They were attacked first...then they finished it and won more land.  But the media, esp. CNN, likes to make Israel look like the bad guys and that makes me very angry.  They can at least get the facts right.

tidy

Well sorry about the typos.  That's WWI and WWII.

One of my favorite Biblical quotes in Lindsey's book is the oneaabout the only land deed God ever gave (this deed is irrevocable!)

And the Lord appeared to Abram (Abraham) and said, "To your descendants I WILL give this land."  And, "...for all the land which you see, I WILL GIVE IT TOYOU AND TO YOUR DESCENDANTS FOREVER.  And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if anyone can number the dust of the earth, then your descendants can also be numbered.  Arise, walk about the land through its length and breadth; for I will give it to you."

Genesis 12 (emphasis added)

tidy

Thanks for the book suggestion!  I will go out and get it.  I'm 42 and just recently, in the past several years have become interested in History.  I think it was sparked by all the turmoil in the Middle East, starting with Iraq.  I have a lot of catching up to do....

BTW,  news just announced if Israel goes in with boots on the ground into Lebanon, the Govt. states it will join Hizbollah in it's attacks.  Never saw that coming.  I truly thought they would get sick of them and attempt to kick Hizbollah out!   Not join them....  They also stated the head of Hizbollah as sayin they have some upcoming big surprises to release on Israel.   Fox News is questioning whether this means Chemicals of Mass destruction..  This is getting out of control!

Dihannah1, I had not heard that news.  I haven't watched tv all day so I'm out of touch.  That is very scary that they have a surprise awaiting Israel?  And I thought the Lebanon govt would distance itself from Hezbollah if given the chance.  That is a very dangerous stance for them to take imo.  But even though last week at the G8 the world's leaders seemed to agree Israel had a right to defend against the terrorists attacking them and to let it continue for awhile, now they are about to denounce it and turn back against Israel.

If Lebanon really gets into it, that brings in Syria and whoever their allies are.  Russia has treaties with Iran and Syria, so where does that lead?  Not good.

Let's pray, pray, pray.  I've gotta go medicate cats and scoop!

tidycat

How the Jews Ended Up as the So-called Chosen People

As you may or may not know, my daughter got involved with Judaism at Fairfax High School in the 11th grade (1983). She had to take a language course and picked Hebrew. During her early years, I tried to get her into programs at various synagogues but she refused. In the Hebrew class, she ran into a huge amount of orthodox kids who took Hebrew because it was an easy class for them since they grew up hearing Hebrew prayers and rituals spoken in the home and the synagogue.

She fell head first into the very strict orthodoxy. She got involved with two organizations devoted to bringing Jewish young adults who were not religious back to the orthodoxy. These organizations were funded by anonymous rich Jews who would sponsor promising students to bring them back to their Jewish roots. They paid for her to go to local religious retreats and big trips to NY to meet with other young adults who were also just discovering their Jewish identity. After she finished high school, the organizations sent her to NY to study. She didn't like it so they sent her to Jerusalem to study religion. They provided clothing (women have to wear long skirts and tops covering them from the neck to the wrists), they got her into the best Yeshiva, and she had a knack for being able to connect with and captivate famous Rabbis so she was always considered very special. She lived in a dorm and had part time jobs as a babysitter, heavy duty housecleaner, waitress and assisting a dentist.

She learned vast amounts of information regarding Judaism. She would go to Israel for eight months and come back for three months and then go back and come home, etc. Because she was such a good student, they paid for her trips.

In her mind, these organizations were doing this purely from the goodness of their hearts. I told her that was not correct. They had an agenda and they had expectations of her down the line. For each kid they brought back to orthodox Judaism, especially females, they expected the females to marry orthodox boys and have as many children as possible who they would raise to continue the orthodoxy. She told me their agenda was not necessarily her agenda. This was my first clue about her ethics or lack of ethics. My material girl did not want to marry a poor orthodox boy who spent all day studying religion while she stayed at home having babies.

However, she learned a hell of a lot about Judaism and its history. Every time she came back, she would tell me about everything she learned. It was totally fascinating. As I said, she had the best teachers. She could expound upon the size of Succah huts in cubits. She knew about everything.

One particular thing struck me that I had never heard before in my whole life. Why were the Jews God's chosen people? She related that God offered the "chosen people" status to various groups. God said, "You will have to abide by my laws. No killing, no stealing, no coveting your neighbor's wife, etc." Those groups said "Hell no, we want to steal, kill, attack, murder, etc." So God went to the next group and they gave the same response. Finally, the last group God approached was the Jews. They agreed to abide by God's laws and thus they became the Chosen People.

I don't think this is common knowledge. People have great resentment against the Jews because they think they were God's first and only choice. In truth, the Jews were God's last choice and only because they agreed to the terms of the contract to live in peace.

Dihannah1,

I also heard if Israel mounts a ground war into Lebanon, Lebanon will join Hezbollah in it's attacks.  Not to mention that Hezbollah is saying they have surprises for Israel.

This clearly says that Lebanon is under the control of another entity.

I betcha Bush, his Cabinet and the two houses of Congress are panicked, can't figure out what to do. They are running around with their hair on fire.

Let's not mince worlds. This is WWIII.

LV thank you so much for sharing that email.
My thoughts and prayers are with our Israeli friends
I know that when it is time for us to go help them, go and help them we will!

We have ships taking Americans out of Lebanon.  The Marines have landed.  That was 24 hours ago. :shock:

Thanks for the story LV.  That story about the chosen people, I just want to add,   Jesus was a jew.  I have never heard that God hunted a group until he found one to obey.  So, very interesting perspective.  There are obvious differences in Judaism and Christian beliefs.  Main one being they believe the 1st coming of Christ is still to come.

On another note.  I found today, something reported on 7/19, about another escalating problem in different  part of the world.   From CNN....

Ethiopia says it is prepared to invade neighboring Somalia to defend it's UN-backed govt. against what appears to be imminent attack by Islamic militiamen.....  

Apparently Condi is planning a trip next week to Middle East to discuss the situation in Israel.  I am thrilled that the US backs Israel fully.  However, at this point, I just don't see how (according to MSM) that only she can resolve this issue.  They almost sound silly as if  the world should be putting all their eggs in her basket.  I am somewhat disappointed in Bush's lack of any action aside from a few remarks (like at the G8 summit).  Though, I am sure there are alot of things going on in the background I am not aware of.  Unfortunately, we have been concentrating on Iraq for so long, we've become oblivious to the rest of the world, now suddenly Condi is going to go save the world?  JMO

Praying for peace in Israel and all the innocent people in Lebanon and Palestine.

It seems to me that a trip by Condi Rice to the region is just a gesture.  Bush does not want to stop Israel from wiping out a terrorist group.  In fact, the whole world would benefit if there were one less organized terrorist group.  Like John Bolton said, who do you negotiate with anyway?  Hezbollah is not a country, and Lebanon is not getting involved to stop them.  There really is nothing anybody can do, including Bush.  Other than sit on Israel, and the fact is, in Israel's position, we would be doing exactly the same thing.  Netanyahu said it:  This is like the Cuban crisis in l962, except they have actually fired the rockets at Israel.  If this had happened to us, we would have wiped them out...Cuba and the Russians.  

tidycat

I agree, I know your right.  But I worry because as they say on the news, they could be breeding a whole new generation of terrorists as kids watch their homes and families destroyed.  I guess, I can understand if you look through a childs eyes, if they lost a mother or father, how revenge could possibly become an option for them as they grow up.  Unless people step in and help them cope before it's too late!  Though I back the Israelis wholeheartedly.  It breaks my heart to see the innocents in Lebanon affected too.  If only the Lebanon govt'/military would do the right thing.

Dihannah, I often have to recall what the "NEWS" predicted when we went into the First Gulf War, that Iraq had such a massive ground force that our troops would die by the hundreds of thousands, how the Iraqi troops were entrenched and Iraq would destroy not only our troops but send WMD into the USA and destroy Israel as well.  Sometimes the "NEWS" has ulterior motives in their palavering.

I know this may sound like a simple minded solution to some but if only Lebanon would step in and say " We will not allow Hezbolah to cause our country to be destroyed. Lets get them out of here and give Israel the 2 missing soldiers so our country can live peacefully."

Do they not realise that even should Hezbolah be successful they will just take over the ruling of Lebanon?

I agree Sam,  however, I believe the Lebanon army is no match for Hezbollah.  Remember they are being backed by Iran.  When Israel is finished wiping out Hezbollah, hopefully they put a UN force or a nuetral military force in the buffer zone, to prevent them from doing this again.  It was only a few years back that the Lebanon PM was assasinated by Iran militants.  I don't believe the Lebanon military is any stronger today.  They are being held hostage themselves.  It's just a shame it has turned like this to eliminate Hezbollah.

Sadly, on another note, they were interviewing families in S. Lebanon and the people praised Hezbollah for all they have done for them when nobody else would.  Such as provide food, water, medical and education to the poor.  So in the minds of those in the south, Hezbollah are heroes.  Lebanon govt. has a long hard road ahead.   They have at least become a democracy, so the world needs to come to thier rescue after the enemy is removed.  At that time, it Israel will need to step up and assist to gain support against the militants as well.

On Secretary of State C. Rice's surprise visit to Middle East

As Rice rode through the streets of Beirut under heavy security, rockets fired by Hezzbollah guerrillas in Lebanon landed in Haifa and elsewhere in Israel, wounding at least four people, rescue services told the Reuters news agency.

Three people were wounded in the northern Israeli town of Tiberias, where eight rockets landed, Reuters said. And at least one person was wounded in the Israeli border village of Shlomi.

Also Monday, an Israeli attack helicopter crashed on its way back from a mission in Lebanon, according to a government spokesman. The fate of the two men on board was unknown.

Fierce fighting raged as Israeli troops moved deeper into Lebanon to besiege Bint Jbail, dubbed the "capital of the resistance" because of its intense support of Hezbollah during Israel's 1982-2000 occupation of the south, wire services said.

Israeli artillery barrages sent plumes of smoke into the air, and the military said soldiers took control of the area around Bint Jbail but did not capture the town, about 2 1/2 miles from the border.

Ten Israeli soldiers were wounded in the attack, the military said.

In Tehran Monday, the Associated Press reported, Hezbollah's representative in Iran struck a defiant tone, warning that his Islamic militant group plans to widen its attacks on Israel until "no place" is safe for Israelis.

Hossein Safiadeen also reinforced earlier threats by Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah to widen the scope of attacks, which have included unprecedented missile strikes deep into northern Israel.

"We are going to make Israel not safe for Israelis. There will be no place they are safe," Safiadeen told a conference that included the Tehran-based representative of the Palestinian group Hamas and the ambassadors from Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian Authority.

"You will see a new Middle East in the way of Hezbollah and Islam, not in the way of Rice and Israel," he said, according to AP.

Today I saw the tail-end of Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu talking with Wolf Blitzer.  I guess Blitzer is in Israel.  Bibi has been excellent and to the point explaining the realities of the situation.  He earlier compared it to the USA and Cuba in 1962.

Now he was explaining that not only has Iran armed Hezbollah with these Katusha rockets, but Iran is working on a rocket with capability to reach much farther, which would put  Europe and other middle east countries at risk, and also a rocket that could reach the coast of the USA.

Bibi said the Arab countries do recognize this risk and are opposed to Iran and Hezbollah.  But the rest of the world does not seem to realize it.  He said they do not get the point.  We must stop Iran and Hezbollah now...today.  Or they will threaten the rest of the world.  

He is right.  We had to fight WWII against Hitler and the Germans because it was a fight for the survival of the free world.  Europe and Britain had waited too long and allowed the Nazis to become entrenched and very powerful.  We cannot allow these militant Islamists, under direction of Iran, to accomplish the same thing.  People must recognize the danger of that.

tidycat

Hi Tidy. I heard the same interview.

I love "Bibi" Netanyahu.  He has charisma and he is a straight talker who can back up his talk with his walk. And he is great on TV because he speaks excellent English (educated in the US), not to mention the brilliant words that come out of his mouth.

He was Prime Minister from 1996 - 1999.  If he were in office in past several years, he would NOT have withdrawn from Gaza and would not have made the concessions Ariel Sharon did for the sake of peace.

Bibi is right that the rest of the world does not get the point that we must stop Iran and Hezbollah now before they threaten the rest of the world.

There are Hezbollah cells all around the world. It is said they are more powerful than Al Quida.  Some months ago, Gene Bernat wrote me that Hezbollah has a cell in Aruba and that it had something to do with the Natalee case. I could not believe it but now I know he was right about the cell.  

The following website says:  Venezuela, and its neighboring island, Aruba, have long had a well established drug trafficking, drug smuggling, and money laundering network, which had been created in the early 70s by the Cosa Nostra’s Cuntrera-Caruana family. In the 1990s, the Aruba-based Mansur family, of Lebanese descent, took over the network, adding cigarette smuggling to their operations.  According to U.S. court documents from March 2001, “Much of the proceeds garnered by the Mansur brothers went to Hizballah.” http://tinyurl.com/klzvr

Anyway, back to Bibi, I wish the world would listen more closely to him and take what he says more seriously.

Dear Sam and Dihannah1,

Sam, logical people say "We (Lebanon) will not allow Hezbollah to cause our country to be destroyed. Lets get them out of here and give Israel the 2 missing soldiers so our country can live peacefully." It's a damn shame but the Lebanese government has absolutely no control over Hezbollah. Hezbollah has been elected by the people to hold several seats in the Lebanese government. Of course there is a big Arab rhetoric that calls for a cease fire and for the Lebanese government to take control over the militant Hezbollah, all the while knowing that Lebanon has no power to do this. Lebanon is a mere puppet of Syria and Iran who sponsor Hezbollah.

I often think of the situation in the middle east as civilized people vs. barbarians. The Koran calls for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth. Little Arab children are brainwashed by their parents. The kids learn early and parents send them out on the street to throw rocks at Israeli soldiers and stir up trouble. This is not the hallmark of a civilized society.

Dihannah1, do you think that Israel can wipe out Hezbollah? I'm worried. I heard on FOX today that unofficially the US has given Israel 10 to 15 more days to wipe out Hezbollah but they should do it quietly. Maybe they can wipe out Hezbollah in Lebanon but there are cells all over the world that Israel cannot wipe out.

Escape From Beirut - 25,000 Americans Stranded

This morning as I was pouring a cup of coffee, I heard an animated conversation going on outside.

I live in a 12 unit apartment building in Hollywood. All my neighbors are Armenian and brought with them the culture and hospitality of their country. There are always men sitting around outside playing cards, chess and talking. There are old and young women who sit and chat and drink Armenian coffee and sweets. The conversation is Armenian mixed with English. It's very informal and European.

But back to this morning, I took my coffee outside where five women were sitting. One of them I had never seen before and she was talking loudly and gesticulating. Her name is Deruke (she is Armenian) and she and her two teenage daughters (12 and 14) just arrived from Beirut. She is related to my neighbors in Apt. 6.

One of the women translated. Deruke is not an American citizen but she lived in the US for a while and had her daughters here, thus they are American citizens. She moved to Beirut and has been living there for a long time. Suddenly she found herself trapped in Beirut. The airport was wiped out, the port was blockaded and the roads were dangerous. She was one of the thousands of frantic people trying to get in touch with the American Embassy by phone. As a last resort, she took her chances on the street and went to the Embassy on foot. They told her there would be an airlift by helicopter and she should prepare to come back to the Embassy on a certain date and time.

Deruke could only take a few things with her and had to leave the rest behind, not knowing if they would ever go back and if so, would there be anything left? She and her daughters were airlifted to Cypress, then to a second place and a third place. They asked her where she wanted to go from there and she said Los Angeles. It took three days after that to arrive in the United States. She looked shell shocked but her girls looked just like regular teenagers. I asked how much this cost and she said the United States paid for it and they are so happy to have escaped.

I picked her brain about how people in the region feel about Israel and Hezbollah and the war. She said everyone hates Hezbollah but no one wanted to engage them because they are too powerful. People love and support Israel and feel Israel has been attacked and terrorized for too long. Israel has had enough and rightly so. (She made the "I'm fed up to here" motion with the arm and hand slashing across the top of the head.) It is a little country surrounded by Arabs. (Altho peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.) I said, "Israel is now firing missiles into Lebanon and killing people and you've had to leave everything behind in order to escape and this has disrupted your life." She said "They have to fight Hezbollah. Enough of being attacked. And it all started with the kidnappings of three Israeli soldiers. People are thankful Israel is doing this and we want them to wipe out Hezbollah." I asked how Israel could possibly wipe out Hezbollah. She and all the ladies sitting outside this morning said a resounding "Because Israel is not alone, the United States is behind Israel."

Quote from article by Don Feder:

Lebanon used to be a nice little country, before the Sons of Allah got their blood-smeared hands on it.

Believe it or not, Beirut was once called the Paris of the Middle East (all the elegance, none of the French). Lebanon was the most advanced and prosperous country in the Arab world -- because a majority of Lebanese were Christians.

Then came the influx of Palestinian refugees (charming folks, really) in 1948 and 1967. When the PLO was kicked out of Jordan by King Hussein, they set up shop in Lebanon. A civil war ensued, with the local Muslim population allied with their Palestinian cousins.

Israel invaded twice to secure its northern border from PLO mortar attacks. At the behest of the Arab League, Syria sent a "peacekeeping" force that turned into an army of occupation. It controlled the Bekaa Valley for a quarter of a century. (Even after its withdrawal, the Lebanese government remains a Syrian puppet.) The Syrians murdered every Christian politician of consequence, including president-elect Bashir Gemayel in 1982. Due to their breeding habits, Muslims are now a majority.  Hezbollah has 27 seats in the Lebanese parliament.

Many Lebanese Christians were forced into exile. The Lebanese Foundation for Peace recently urged Jerusalem to "hit them (Hezbollah) hard. ... On behalf of thousands of Lebanese, we ask you to open the doors of Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport to thousands of volunteers in the (Lebanese) Diaspora willing to bear arms and liberate their homeland from (Islamic) fundamentalism."

GrasstopsUSA
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--------------

While his rhetoric is rather inflammatory in the entire article, this one section I think describes the predicament in which Lebanon finds herself.  So sad their country was stolen from them and now the thieves are the duly elected officials.  They have combined with the Jordanians there calling themselves Palestinians to create a majority in many sections of the country for this is a reason it will be so difficult to remove them.  Even if removed militarily they will just elect more of the same.

.

 :(

Wow, I understand the connection with the Mansur family and the Hezbollah case for obvious reasons of being lebanese, but you threw me when you mentioned possible connection to Natalee's case?  I'm confused....

LV,  what are your thoughts on Sharon giving back some land to Palestine for the sake of peace?  What are your thoughts on the best plan for peace?  

I am worried about the reports of Israel hitting the UN workers today, saying it was done on purpose, which I don't believe, but what will become of it...  Of course my feelings on the UN are similar to what I heard on the news  (United Nothing). They are useless and scandalous!

Louise ~

I am so praying for God to lend His strength to Israel.


And I wouldn't mind one bit if the United States were to lend some of our Military strength to Israel too...

July 26, 2006 -- JERUSALEM - Israel claimed victory in Hezbollah's southern "capital" yesterday after a battle in Lebanon that uncovered Iranian-made weapons and electronic equipment and left 150 guerrillas dead.

Israeli forces found "war rooms" equipped with Iranian surveillance and eavesdropping gear in Bint Jbail, the main Hezbollah stronghold just inside the border.

"The town is completely controlled by us," an Israeli colonel said.

Caches of weapons were also found in Bint Jbail, Israeli officials said.

Mahmoud Komati, deputy chief of Hezbollah's political arm, refused to acknowledge the group was firing Iranian-made missiles into Israel.

"We don't deny nor confirm. We believe where the weapons come from is irrelevant," he said, adding that Hezbollah has weapons made in France, Russia, China and the United States.

"Some of our fighters carry M16s. So you think we buy them from America?" he asked.

The death toll from the two-week war continued to mount, including six Lebanese killed by a bomb in Nebatiyeh and a 15-year-old Arab girl killed by a Hezbollah rocket in northern Israel. At least three U.N. observers were also killed, with one other feared dead. They were from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, U.N. and Lebanese officials said.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called on Israel to investigate the "apparently deliberate" deadly attack against the world body's observation post.

Israeli U.N. Ambassador Dan Gillerman expressed "deep regret" for what happened, but called Annan's accusations "premature and erroneous."

Gillerman said he was "shocked and deeply distressed by the hasty statement of the secretary-general insinuating that Israel has deliberately targeted the U.N. post." A spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry said the incident would be investigated.

Among the yesterday's developments:

* A senior Hezbollah official said the group was surprised at the fierce Israeli reaction to the guerrillas' kidnapping of two soldiers.

"The truth is - let me say this clearly - we didn't even expect [this] response . . . that [Israel] would exploit this operation for this big war against us," said Komati, the Hezbollah spokesman.

* Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the offensive could ignite a wider Mideast war - and Syria was on its highest state of alert in 15 years.

* Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said his forces will control only a "security strip" in southern Lebanon and hold it until an international force can replace them.

Peretz said anyone who enters the strip could be fired upon. The strip is expected to range from two to six miles deep, north of the border.

* Other military officials said they did not plan to push deeper into Lebanon.

"The intention is to deal with the Hezbollah infrastructure that is within reach," Col. Hemi Livni, who commands troops in the western sector of southern Lebanon, told Israel Army Radio. "That means in southern Lebanon, not going beyond that."

* Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was told during her visit to Israel on Monday that a peacekeeping force "like in Bosnia" was needed, sources said.

Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah took aim at Rice's peace proposals when he said in a televised speech that his terror group would not accept any "humiliating" conditions for a cease-fire.

He also said the war was entering a "new period" and threatened to fire missiles deeper into Israel.

* New fighting erupted yesterday near the town of Marun a-Ras, which Israel thought had been conquered on Sunday.

Abu Jaafar, commander of Hezbollah's central sector on the border, and four gunmen were killed and several soldiers from an Israeli tank unit were wounded, officials said.

Israel is now poised to knock out Hezbollah launching sites near the coastal city of Tyre, from which 12 Syrian-made rockets were fired at Haifa yesterday.

At least 66 Israelis were reported wounded from the attacks yesterday. A 76-year-old Israeli suffered a fatal heart attack as he hurried to an air-raid shelter in Haifa.

At least 418 people in Lebanon and 42 in Israel have been killed since the fighting began on July 12, when Hezbollah raided an Israeli patrol south of the border.

(I'm really sorry I don't know how to do the quote stacks so I'm taking the long way around. Sheesh.)

***********
Dihannah1 responded to my post below:
Wow, I understand the connection with the Mansur family and the Hezbollah case for obvious reasons of being lebanese, but you threw me when you mentioned possible connection to Natalee's case? I'm confused....

LV, what are your thoughts on Sharon giving back some land to Palestine for the sake of peace? What are your thoughts on the best plan for peace?

I am worried about the reports of Israel hitting the UN workers today, saying it was done on purpose, which I don't believe, but what will become of it... Of course my feelings on the UN are similar to what I heard on the news (United Nothing). They are useless and scandalous!
***********

================
My post: He (Bibi) was Prime Minister from 1996 - 1999. If he were in office in past several years, he would NOT have withdrawn from Gaza and would not have made the concessions Ariel Sharon did for the sake of peace.

There are Hezbollah cells all around the world. It is said they are more powerful than Al Quida. Some months ago, Gene Bernat wrote me that Hezbollah has a cell in Aruba and that it had something to do with the Natalee case. I could not believe it but now I know he was right about the cell.
===============


Dihannah1,

The easy questions first.

I found your comment on the UN - United Nothing - very funny. I heard the news reports too. I don't believe Israel would hit the UN workers on purpose. It is totally pointless and irrational. I heard comments by Kofi Annan that the direct hit on the position was "apparently" deliberate. Ehud Olmert rejected the charge. He expressed "deep regret" over the deaths and said they were "mistaken." "It's inconceivable for the U.N. to define an error as an apparently deliberate action," Olmert said, adding that he ordered an investigation.

Regarding Ariel (the name means Lion) Sharon, he DID withdraw from Gaza - land for peace. I was saying Bibi would never have done this. Sharon was more conciliatory. Maybe because of his long military and government career and as he aged, he became more enlightened. Old men are not usually as militant as they were when they were young. Bibi is much younger than Sharon.

However, Dihannah1, today there is no such country called Palestine. A little history here - Palestine USED to be the area where Israel and Jordan are today. In 1948, Palestine was divided into Israel and Trans-Jordan. Israel for the Jews and Trans-Jordan for the non-Jews / Palestinians. So while there are Palestinians, there is no Palestine. Here is more history: Yasser Arafat, a terrorist, created in Trans-Jordan the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization). In 1970, Yasser Arafat and the PLO attempted an unsuccessful coup to dethrone King Hussein of Jordan. He threw them out and they moved their base into Lebanon where they carried out raids on Israel. On June 6, 1982, under the direction of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, Israel invaded Lebanon and forced a PLO evacuation.  Arafat set up a new headquarters in Tunisia. In 1988, Arafat told the United Nations that the PLO renounced terrorism and recognized Israel's right to exist and the right of all parties to live in peace -- Israel included. After this surface change of policy, seventy countries recognized the PLO as the government of the Palestinian Arabs, and Arafat emerged as the clear Palestinian leader following the 1991 Madrid Peace Conference and the 1993 Oslo agreement.  Based on the Oslo Accords, Arafat moved to Gaza on July 1, 1994 and set up the new Palestinian Authority there.  And after twelve miserable years of conflict, and after Arafat died, Ariel Sharon withdrew from Gaza. Land for peace. It didn't work. The militant part of the PLO - Hamas - kidnapped one Israeli soldier and Voila! here we are.

Thank you for asking about my thoughts on the best plan for peace.  As long as the Koran exists, there will be no peace.  Turn back the hands of time and make Arafat and the PLO happy living in Jordan? Erase their coup attempt on King Hussein? Have the US wipe out all the enemies of Israel? No. All that is impossible.  Civilized countries cannot negotiate with barbarians.

Regarding Hezbollah and the Holloway case, we know Hezbollah has cells all over the world. If we believe that the proceeds garnered by the Mansur brothers went to Hezbollah, what is there to stop us from thinking that perhaps Hezbollah runs Aruba in a financial sense and has established the drug, porn, sex trade industry, etc., to support its operations.  All of us feel something is going on that is bigger than we know about. We are looking for the mysterious reason the case has been covered up. I am still struck by the Governor of Alabama saying there are things he can't discuss. How come the FBI could not get more involved? How could the FBI announce "we have stumbled upon the fact that the Aruban shenanigans are connected to Hezbollah (via drugs and porn films and snuff videos) and the Holloway case is not important enough to invoke the wrath of Hezbollah and expose their activities on Aruba"? Maybe the US government warned the Governor to keep his mouth shut.

I don't know. I'm speculating.  And I'm tired and sad to see this sorry state of affairs in the middle east. But ... one point of hope .... the US stands behind Israel. On the other hand, if the US gets involved, it may be a point of despair with a war to the death with nuclear weapons.

Just announced on FOX ... Ehud Barak is convening a meeting with his entire cabinet Thursday morning to discuss expansion plans for their mission to wipe out Hezbollah.

I don't know why I am posting here this late!  I should be in bed.

Anyway, Louise, Bibi Netanyahu is my hero!  When he is on tv my husband says, "Here's your guy."  Not only is he good looking, he is very intelligent and wise and eloquent.  He knows what he is doing and he has the courage of his convictions.  You are right, he never would have given up one inch of land for any reason, certainly not to placate some other country.  I don't know, but I think he is religious whereas Ariel Sharon is not.  Bibi does not believe in giving up Israel's heritage to the Arabs.  I was hoping he would be their leader again, but maybe later.  Goodnight!

tidycat

I do not know if this link will work or not since it is AOL but there has been a portion of a video released on AL Jarzeen( unsure of spelling) Of the 2nd in command after Bin Laden asking all Al Quaida to rise up against Israel and all Non Muslim countries. Here is the link. This is all really scary.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/al-qaida-calls-for-holy-war-against/20060727062909990014

Sam,

Yep I heard this on the news today. It was repeated over and over.

The pundits commented: Maybe Al Quida is trying to get itself back into the news as they have been eclipsed by the Israeli war.

However, I feel they are serious. Between Al Quida and Hezbollah, I am not optimistic about the future of civilization. I knew after September 11 that this was coming.

I'm taking the earliest Social Security benefits possible when I turn 62 next month, and I only renew my magazine subscriptions for one year.

If we are attacked, I hope that I die in the first wave. I don't want to live in a world like "Blade Runner."

Stuck in Lebanon
             By Mike Gallagher
             Friday, July 21, 2006

             The reporters crowded around the American evacuees from
Lebanon, thrusting their microphones and cameras into their faces, eager
to hear what they had to say. It's been estimated that there were as
many as 25,000 Americans in Lebanon when the bombing erupted, so clearly
there was a story to tell. It certainly couldn't be easy to airlift
25,000 people out of a country ravaged by war and violence in a short
period of time, but these Americans would undoubtedly have a gracious
message for their country, right?

             No, that's not the way it is anymore. Grace and humility are
traits that seem to be in short supply, particularly when being applied
to the big, bad United States of America.

             The first interview I saw was with a man who was livid with
the U.S. Embassy. "Every time we made it to the Embassy, they told us
'we can't help you, wait for a phone call.' I mean, it's a joke!"

             Another American complained, "A week of nothing but misery
and traveling from one town to town to find safety for me, for my
pregnant wife, for my child...and for what? I don't think it's about the
two kidnapped soldiers anymore. I think it's more political. They're
trying to get political gains at this point."

             Yet another grateful American, this time, a woman: "It is
positively ridiculous that it took the U.S. so long to come and get us.
We were very scared and I blame George Bush and the government for
dragging it's feet in helping us get out!"

             Here we go again. Another catastrophic event, another wave
of "blame the United States." Sounds familiar, no? Only this time the
event wasn't a hurricane or a flood, but ruthless terrorists in Lebanon
attacking Israel and Israel fighting back.

             First of all, it's pretty difficult for me to wrap my brain
around the idea of taking a summertime vacation to Beirut. Personally, I
prefer Disneyworld. Or maybe a nice Caribbean cruise. But Lebanon? You
take your pregnant wife into war-torn Lebanon?

             Okay, so for whatever reason, a bunch of Americans decide to
explore all the vacation benefits of Lebanon. Suddenly, bombs start
flying and they want to leave. Immediately. Well, the world doesn't
quite work that way. Evacuating thousands of people from a country that
is home to Hezbollah terrorists who are firing rockets into Israel is
just as complicated and difficult as it sounds.

             Amazingly, we're not even going to charge these ungrateful
evacuees for the free trip home. Despite a federal law that mandates
reimbursement to the government if an American has to be evacuated from
a foreign country, the State Department backed off after a big firestorm
of objections were heard from critics of the Bush Administration. It's
estimated that a plane ticket from Lebanon to Cypress, where many were
taken, costs about $200.00. Thanks to the stench of political
correctness and cowering bureaucrats in Washington, we taxpayers now get
the honor of buying the Lebanon evacuees their trip home.

             Once more, we're confronted with the ugly image of people
shirking their personal responsibility and wanting to blame everyone
else for their decisions. If you make the choice to take a holiday in a
place like Beirut, it sure seems like there's a possibility that you
might not enjoy it when the terrorists get antsy. At the very least, you
might want to hold your tongue and not complain, gripe and moan about
your country when it comes and rescues you.

             These people likely learned a thing or two from the reaction
to flooded New Orleans. Sure, there were some people who couldn't leave
when Katrina was on its way. But let's face it, there were many people
who became victims because they made a choice to stay in New Orleans
despite being warned to get out of town. Their bad decision became the
government's fault.

             Just once, I'd like to see an American on TV express some
appreciation for their country during times like these. What a joy it
would have been to turn on the television and see an evacuee from
Lebanon say something like, "Boy, was I ever dumb for deciding to take a
vacation in Lebanon. But thanks to the United States, I'm now safely
sitting in the Baltimore airport and am I ever grateful. Thanks to the
brave men and women who helped rescue my family and me, and God bless
America. It sure feels great to be home."

             No, that wasn't what these people said. Not even close.
Their sense of outrage and entitlement is slowly but surely becoming the
American way. And it's positively disgusting.

             Next time these folks want to take a trip, may I  respectfully suggest they consider Six Flags. Then again, if the roller  coaster is shut down for repairs, I guess it'll be President Bush's
fault...

Well, that was an interesting point of view but I don't like it at all. It's disgusting.

The author is indicating that all 25,000 Americans in Lebanon went there on vacation with pregnant wives, knowing ahead of time that war would break out and when it did, they bitched and complained that they weren't rescued fast enough. Sure. As if. The author is an uglier American than the people he is writing about.  He is very un-gracious and mean spirited.

I have posted a first hand account of a family who was living in Lebanon for years and who are very grateful the US rescued them.  They were not accidental tourists. Beirut was their home.

And I am happy my taxpayer money is paying for people to get the hell out of there before they get killed.

Very interesting story LV.  Thanks for sharing. Of course on the news, they interview all those who honor Hezbollah...  even the kids saying they want to kill Bush!  Unbelievable what they are being taught!

I heard they were even warned months before traveling there was a travel warning.  So, they were warned, then blame the govt.

Hi Dihannah1,

Thank you for posting the information that there was a travel warning. I didn't know that.

If I were going to travel somewhere and the government put out a warning about going to that country, my interpretation of the warning would be that the US is not going to be able to help me if I get into trouble.

Tourists going to Lebanon have been warned.

LV,  though I knew about there not really being a state called "Palestine", there was so much history on your post I did not know about.  It was very interesting.

I was young when all the fighting with the PLO was going on,  I vaguely remember hearing about it throughout the years.  So, you provided me the true history, which is much more meaningful.

NABLUS, West Bank (Reuters) - An Israeli undercover unit shot dead two Palestinian militants in the West Bank on Saturday, including a top Islamic Jihad commander, Palestinian armed groups said.

Palestinian witnesses said undercover soldiers in the West Bank city of Nablus opened fire at several Palestinians, killing two gunmen without engaging in a clash. Initial reports from the witnesses said the militants had returned the soldiers' fire.

The army said troops fought a gun battle with the militants. Palestinian armed groups said the dead men were Islamic Jihad's most senior commander in Nablus and a member of al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, part of President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction.

The witnesses said the senior Islamic Jihad commander appeared to be the army's target in the raid. The Israeli military said it was checking the report.

Islamic Jihad and al-Aqsa have killed hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings and other attacks since the start of a Palestinian uprising in 2000.

Last week, the Israeli army destroyed a Nablus government compound where Israel believed Hizbollah militants and others planning attacks on the Jewish state were holed up.

Israel launched an offensive against Hizbollah in Lebanon after the guerrilla group captured two soldiers in a cross-border raid on July 12. It also has stepped up raids in the Gaza Strip to get militants there to free another soldier.

Palestinians are seeking a state in Gaza and the West Bank.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.
Also on Reuters
Photo
Lebanon crisis is part of broader struggle: Bush
Photo
Congo rebel to talk with election winner
Photo

Photographs that the little third-world tyrant Kofi needs to see.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

The media is crucifying Israel. Hezbollah launched rockets from civilian areas and Israel has technology to see where the attacks are coming from and they fired back at that location. This is Hezbollah's MO - to hide itself in civilian locations. Israel is being blamed for killing civilians on purpose. The entire situation has been turned around from what originally happened. Hezbollah provoked Israel. Hamas provoked Israel.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283816,00.html

CNN is really the worst offender right now.  

If you get a chance, please watch Oli North on Fox interview the prisoners held by Iran.  It will give you an idea of what these "civilians" are doing to Jews and Christians.

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014835.php

Tyler, I did see Oli tonight and his interviews with those help captive by Hezbollah.  It gives you a true feel for what they are truly like.   It was so sad when talking about their comrades being tortured and then dyining a few feet away.  Not being able to comfort them because of the blindfolds and the chains holding them.  Pure evil.  And people have the nerve to talk about Israel?  At least they are trying to avoid civilians, Hozbollah cowardly hiding behind innocent civilians.  Hezbollah's weapons are just shot into nowhere, hoping they hit innocent people!   How do people sympathize with them?  sickening!

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283816,00.html

Why did people stay in the building 8 hours after it was bombed by Israel, or did Mizb'Allah blow up this building to create corpses.

And let me lend my $.02 here -

why isn't Hezbelloh held to the Geneva Convention?  We are hearing about how awful the detainees in Gitmo have it....

Uh, could it be that terrorists don't follow any convention of anything except their will to win?

Make no mistake, Hezbelloh, Al Quida, Hamas..... they are just 3 branches of the same military (terrorist) forces....and this Country needs to wake up... the news is disgraceful on all of this.... it frightens me that the agenda of hating President Bush for some ppl, sneaks in even to this....

Louise Vargas...you make an excellent point about Blade Runner..... and if we don't get it together, I believe, like you do, it's where we are headed!!

Read this article entitled
 What part about War Don't We Understand...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204477,00.html

it is so true...

[quote="mrs. red
And let me lend my $.02 here -

why isn't Hezbelloh held to the Geneva Convention?  We are hearing about how awful the detainees in Gitmo have it....

Uh, could it be that terrorists don't follow any convention of anything except their will to win?

Make no mistake, Hezbelloh, Al Quida, Hamas..... they are just 3 branches of the same military (terrorist) forces....and this Country needs to wake up... the news is disgraceful on all of this....

I received this in my emails. Thought I would post it here.

Can a good Muslim be a good American



I got this from someone else and it is worth reading.


Can a good Muslim be a good American? I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia .
Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except
Islam (Quran, 2:256)
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam
and the Quran (Koran).
Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns
in prayer five times a day.
Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends
with Christians or Jews.
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders),
who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat
and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 ).
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution
since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be
corrupt.
Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow
freedom of religion and _expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.


Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the
Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as
heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very
suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both
"good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements,
perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand
this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

.


The religious war is bigger than we know or understand

Tyler, that is the first I heard that it collapsed 8 hrs later.  That certainly puts a completely different spin on it.  Why wait 8 hours???  hmmmmm


Sam.  It makes sense when reading each of those bullet points.  However,  I am curious about all the OTHER muslims, especially living in the Western world.  I've heard regular muslims say, that Allah does not really teach the hate that these Extremists believe?  Of course, I am not sure as I have not studied the Koran much.   But have been under the impression, these extremists misinterpreting their Bible to meet their own needs, like some of the cults we have here in the US..   Koresh,  Manson, those cults who committed suicide when the comit passed the earth, etc...   Even some christian religions interpret the Bible differently, like Baptists are thought to be the 'fire and brimstone" preachers of hell after death,  then there are the Johovah Witnesses who believe heaven will be on earth and only 144,000 Witnesses will be accepted?  I am not sure of the exact beliefs of each.  I am a Baptist and know alot who do not believe in hell.  So, I guess my point is,  I don't believe all Muslims are bad, it is those few who take the Koran out of context, believing what you described in your post.   I've been known to be wrong before though!

LV,  your right, if the US gets involved, the world will be over. It's becoming the Christians/Jews against Islam....  

Thoughts on Castro handing power over to his brother.  I heard today, nothing will change.  The brother has been running the military for years and will run the country the same. There is hope that with both of their ages, they won't be around much longer.  Time for a democracy.

Chavez of Venezuala is getting to close to Iran. Something else for us to need to look over our shoulders.  Then with the Mid-East conflict, people are not paying as much attention in Iraq.  It's also getting worse.....

Hezbollah, is doing everything they can to create 'civilian' corpses.

It's not a war between Christians/Jews and Islam it's a war between Islam and Civilization.

Dihannah1, If you read any books about Islam, you will find that the points in Sam's post are all true.  They are called to jihad with the infidel.  That is anyone who is not Muslim.  They freely admit it.  They allow infidels to live only a slave-like existence with no civil rights...much like women.  Mohammed warred with everyone who did not capitulate to Islam, and his successors also, until they almost took over the entire world at the time.

Their legacy was the Ottoman Empire which also covered the entire holy land.  The crusades were sent to retake the holy land and only succeeded for a brief time.  The Ottoman Empire was dismantled after WWI or WWII...I know the United Nations divided it up into the current states, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Israel.  Turkey was affected also.  I think some of it went to Iraq.

I think Pakistan and parts of India were involved in the redrawing of borders too.

I have no doubt the pijama gang will out what really happened.  MSM has lost its credibility.

Carnut:  

Now that is a true statement.

Exactly!

Thanks Tidy for clarifying.  I have only went on what the MSM has said or the interviews with muslims.  I guess, even Bush's statements to us, after 9/11, not to blame all muslims, only the radical factions....

I appreciate all for providing the history of those countries and the results of the WW wars...

My father was born in  1924 and a Marine for 40 yrs, and he never, ever spoke of any of the wars or his experiences when I was young.  He passed away when I was 18, and unfortunately, I was not interested in history then.  I'd give anything to have him here now to discuss all this with.!

Thanks to all of you for educating me!

Hi Dihannah1,

Yes, Bush did not say not to blame all Muslims, only the radical factions.

I have heard many times prominent Muslims say on TV that the current Islamic Jihad does not adhere to the Koran. Yet the Koran says Israel should be destroyed. But there are many, many Muslims who say they do not agree with that part of the Koran.

By the way, Di, we have a lot in common. My father was born in 1912, an Army officer "lifer" who my mother divorced when I was five. I didn't see him again for ten years and at 15, I had no interest in history.

Just like you, what I wouldn't give to talk to him again. I found out years later from his half brother George that he was stationed at the Panama Canal. George sent me my father's khaki green Army hat, a New Year's Eve menu from the Officer's Club in Panama, listing the names of all the soldiers on the back.

Thank you for reminding me,
Louise

I think we have to be careful here guys...there are MANY passages in the Old Testament of the Bible we could pull out that would seem like insanity to us now. I DO believe the majority of Muslims are loving caring people who DON'T believe in the radical interpretations we see with the extremist.
My experience with Muslims has come from the Bosnian community here in St Louis. St Louis has the largest population of Bosnians in the US. As a realtor I have been blessed to work with many of the Bosnian community; the majority of which are Muslim. They are hard working family oriented people who are loving and caring, I have learned much from them. Many are great friends to me!! There is nothing hateful nor evil in their religious convictions. I think if you compare all religions...90% of the lessons are the same, 10% differ...and yet it is the small differences that have caused wars throughout our history. My Bosnian friends take the time to exlain their religious holidays and beliefs to me...I find nothing radical about them!! This is a nation of people who were slaughtered!!! in part because of their religious beliefs...but in greater part...because of politics and fear. I think people sometimes hide their true intentions behind a religious front. What really motivates men to start wars? Fear, envy, greed. The belief that one person has more than another. Evil can be displayed by men of any religion!! and has!! We have many muslims that live amounst us here in the US...and for the most part they are people just like you and I. Share our same goals, to raise our children to be successful, to live the "American Dream" of working hard, owning a home and building a nest egg so that they can enjoy their "golden years" . I don't believe the majority of Muslims are any different than you and I. We are first and foremost...all humans!! With the same needs and wants!! Just as I believe the majority of Arubans are good and law abiding citizens who spend their days just struggling to raise their children, work hard and make a living...so are the majority of Muslims. However...evil walks amoungst us...EVERYWHERE!!! I have told Dihanna I am struggling with the murder of little Jennifer Moore. For some reason her death has really struck my heart and soul...some kind of connection there. Can you get anymore evil than that? It's not like shooting off a bomb...not knowing where or will strike nor seeing it's devastaion. This man brutalized this young baby...in every sense of the word..with his bare hands!! and other parts of his body. Now that is personal....that is evil!! I have to believe in the inherent goodness of man. I HAVE to...no matter what they call God!! But I also have to believe there is a force that works in opposition to God...no matter what you call Him...that is always working against Good. I truely believe we have to be very careful in judging and race, creed or religion!! It is when we begin judging "others" as "different" than ourselves....without really knowing them...that evil takes it's hold on us.

The bottom line is that the world has changed. Radical Islamist Muslims are the current day Nazis. But these people are not just seeking to wipe out Israel, they seek to wipe out everyone who is not a Muslim.

I'm kinda hoping that the IDF will find a good reason to level Damascus and Teheran in the near future.

Middle East Report, August 5, 2006

Today I got another email from Rabbi Shlomo Schwartz (known as Schwartzie) and his wife, Olivia who travel to Safed (also known as Zefat) which is considered a very holy city in terms of the Kaballa every summer to teach at the Ascent Institute for several weeks and then come back to Los Angeles.

I posted the first email I got from Olivia on page 4 of this thread, called "Middle East Report." They had to get the hell out of Safed where katushas were landing all around them. They went to Jerusalem, where there are no rockets falling yet.

Rabbi Schwartz has his own style of writing and spelling which takes a little extra effort to read. I was gonna translate it but I decided to leave it as it is. Certain words I will translate in parentheses in red.

Schwartzie on the Front Lines

Part I

We just finished Tisha Bav (remembering the destruction of our beautiful Temple that once stood in Jerusalem) & I am emailing U once again from the absolute Ultimate place 2 B @ this time - across from the Holy Wall! There R thousands of ppl here (All Jews) Davening [praying] 4 the destruction & the war 2 cease, reading the scroll of Lamentations, one of the 24 books of the Holy Bible.

There R dozens of circles of ppl sitting on the floor as is the custom 4 Jews when they mourn & sit "Shiva." [mourning the IDF soldiers killed] Each circle has Jews from a dfrnt custom/culture & thus the enchanting melodies R dfrnt. But it sounds absolutely Beautiful. At 1st it sounds grating & @ variance, but then the cacaphony begins 2 blend til it becomes a collective harmonic convergence tht is quite Uplifting!

Here is a FIRST hand eye witness report of an American-born Yankee (tht'd b me) in a war, in MY country - the JEWISH HOMEland, from a vantage point tht shd B called up front  - i.e. close & PERSONAL (thts when U HEAR the missiles explode NEAR U - which I don't wish on anyone!)
1. A band of Arab Muslims called - "Party of G-D" [God] (Hezbollah), launched an UNPROVOKED attack on CIVILIAN cities, in the ONLY Democracy in the entire Middle East; across INTERNATIONALLY recognized borders.

Next sentence:

2. They set themselves up as a humanitarian org 4 their Arab bothers, in order 2 build hospitals, & schools 4 children, on top of their bunkers where they have their rocket launchers; in effect USING their own "innocent" CIVILIANS as human SHIELDS.

FYI: thts how the village of Qana got destroyed.

BTW: I put quotes on the word INNOCENT above BCZ the Lebanese population (just like the "Palestinian" population did 4 Hamas) VOTED Twenty Three seats into the Lebanese Parliament  to Hezbollah (out of a total of 128).

Imagine if one fine day, Mexico started bombing San Diego. Or Cuba to Miami. How long does anyone think the USA would allow tht 2 continue? Twenty Four hours? Two days? I don't think so. How long B4 we would turn the country of Mexico into a Parking lot?

Anwar Sadat (then the totalitarian  dictator of Egypt) attacked Israel on the Holiest day in the Jewish calendar. [On October 6, 1973 - Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar - Egypt and Syria opened a coordinated surprise attack against Israel.]

Something tht the entire World would Never have forgiven Israel for, if WE had attacked them on their holiest day of Ramadan. He said then tht,  if he knew tht by sacrificing one MILLION of his countrymen's lives, he could "wipe Israel off the map" (sound familiar?), he would have Gladly been responsible for the death of a MILLION Egyptians. After the YOM KIPPUR WAR he was awarded "The Nobel" PEACE Prize". [After he signed a peace treaty with Golda Meir.]

(Then again so was Yasser Arafat; but don't call it global Jew-hatred or ppl (inc. Jews) will look @ U funny.)  

My realistic estimate, after much study & thought is: I don't think tht in my lifetime I will C the eradication of Anti Semetism.

OK - I have some GREAT uplifting stories and miracles with me returning to northern Israel to Safed for the author of the Kabbalah's (Arizal) Memorial.

I'll save this for Part II

With love and peace , Schwartzie
____________________________________________________
This e-mail is in memory of our fallen soldiers in the IDF

Thank you so much for sharing that.  It means so much reading it from somebody who lives it and really knows.

LV,  I felt for some reason we had some things in common.   I appreciate your insight all you right on here .

Thank you!

JERUSALEM, Israel -- The Israeli government announced today that it captured a key Hezbollah operative during commando raids deep into Lebanon, and that it was currently holding twenty Hezbollah fighters as prisoners-of-war.


Over the past week, Israel has conducted two deep-penetration operations behind enemy lines, to attack Hezbollah positions in Tyre and Baalbek where they believed civilians might also be present.


Stung by international criticism that it has bombed civilians by accident in Lebanon, "we have preferred to risk the lives of our own soldiers than to kill innocents," military sources told NewsMax.


The Israeli cabinet met this morning in Jerusalem to get intelligence and operational briefings on the fighting.

www.suntimes.com
Back to regular view
output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn06.html

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Advocates of 'proportion' are just unbalanced

August 6, 2006

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST





"Disproportion" is the concept of the moment. Do you know how to play? Let's say 150 missiles are lobbed at northern Israel from the Lebanese village of Qana and the Israelis respond with missiles of their own that kill 28 people. Whoa, man, that's way "disproportionate."



But let's say you're a northwestern American municipality -- Seattle, for example -- and you haven't lobbed missiles at anybody, but a Muslim male shows up anyway and shoots six Jewish women, one of whom tries to flee up the stairs, but he spots her, leans over the railing, fires again and kills her. He describes himself as "an American Muslim angry at Israel" and tells 911 dispatchers: ''These are Jews. I want these Jews to get out. I'm tired of getting pushed around, and our people getting pushed around by the situation in the Middle East.''

Well, that's apparently entirely "proportionate," so "proportionate" that the event is barely reported in the American media, or (if it is) it's portrayed as some kind of random convenience-store drive-by shooting. Pamela Waechter's killer informed his victims that "I'm only doing this for a statement," but the world couldn't be less interested in his statement, not compared to his lawyer's statement that he's suffering from "bipolar disorder.'' And the local FBI guy, like the Mounties in Toronto a month or so back, took the usual no-jihad-to-see-here line. ''There's nothing to indicate it's terrorism related,'' said Special Assistant Agent-In-Charge David Gomez. In America, terrorism is like dentistry and hairdressing: It doesn't count unless you're officially credentialed.

On the other hand, when a drunk movie star gets pulled over and starts unburdening himself of various theories about "f---ing Jews," hold the front page! That is so totally "disproportionate" it's the biggest story of the moment. The head of America's most prominent Jewish organization will talk about nothing else for days on end, he and the media too tied up dealing with Mel Gibson's ruminations on "f---ing Jews" to bother with footling peripheral stories about actual f---ing Jews murdered for no other reason than because they're f---ing Jews.

On the other other hand, when the leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, announces that if Jews "all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide,'' that's not in the least "disproportionate.'' When President Ahmadinejad of Iran visits Malaysia and declares, apropos Lebanon, that "although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented," well, that's just a bit of mildly overheated rhetoric prefacing what's otherwise a very helpful outline of a viable peace process: (Stage One) Please don't keep degrading our infrastructure until (Stage Two) we've got the capacity to nuke you.

Right now, Israel's best chance of any decent press would seem to be if Mel Gibson flies in and bawls out his waiter as a "f---ing Jew.''

What can we deduce from these various acts, proportionate and not so? If you talk to European officials, they'll tell you privately that that Seattle shooting is the way of the future -- that every now and then in Seattle or Sydney, Madrid or Manchester, someone will die because they went to a community center, got on the bus, showed up for work . . and a jihadist was there. But they're confident that they can hold it to what the British security services cynically called, at the height of the Northern Ireland ''Troubles,'' ''an acceptable level of violence'' -- i.e., it will all be kept ''proportionate.'' Tough for Pam Waechter's friends and family, but there won't be too many of them.

I wonder if they're right to be that complacent. The duke of Wellington, the great British soldier-politician, was born in Ireland, but, upon being described as an Irishman, remarked that a man could be born in a stable but it didn't make him a horse. That's the way many Muslims feel: Just because you're born in the filthy pigsty of the Western world doesn't make you a pig. What proportion of Muslims is hot for jihad? Well, it would be grossly insensitive and disproportionate to inquire. So instead we'll put it down to isolated phenomena like the supposed "bipolar disorder" of Pam Waechter's killer.

In the struggle between America and global Islam, it's the geopolitical bipolar disorder that matters. Clearly, from his own statements about "our people," for Pam Waechter's killer his Muslim identity ultimately transcended his American one. That's what connects him to what's happening in southern Lebanon: a pan-Islamist identity that overrides national citizenship whether in the Pacific Northwest or the Levant. Not for all Muslims, but for enough that things will get mighty "disproportionate" before they're through.

Twenty-eight dead civilians in a village from which 150 Katyusha rockets have been launched against Israel doesn't seem "disproportionate" to me. What's "disproportionate" is the idea that civilian life should be allowed to proceed normally in what is, in fact, a terrorist launching platform.

But, when an army goes to war against a terrorist organization, it's like watching the Red Sox play Andre Agassi: Each side is being held to its own set of rules. When Hezbollah launches rockets into Israeli residential neighborhoods with the intention of killing random civilians, that's fine because, after all, they're terrorists and that's what terrorists do. But when, in the course of trying to resist the terrorists, Israel unintentionally kills civilians, that's an appalling act of savagery. Speaking at West Point in 2002, President Bush observed: "Deterrence -- the promise of massive retaliation against nations -- means nothing against shadowy terrorist networks with no nation or citizens to defend." Actually, it's worse than that. In Hezbollahstan, the deaths of its citizens works to its strategic advantage: Dead Israelis are good news but dead Lebanese are even better, at least on the important battlefield of world opinion. The meta-narrative, as they say, is consistent through the media's Hez-one-they-made-earlier coverage, and the recent Supreme Court judgment, and EU-U.N. efforts to play "honest broker" between a sovereign state and a genocidal global terror conglomerate: All these things enhance the status of Islamist terror and thus will lead to more of it, and ever more "disproportionately."

©Mark Steyn, 2006




Copyright © Mark Steyn, 2006


Copyright © The Sun-Times Company
All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



NOTE:  One of my fav columnists.  I try to always read his articles but this one is just right on target.

Anna

Dear Anna,

What a fabulous article!  Thank you so much for posting it. It's absolutely right on target.

As I've said before, I am just stunned to learn there are so many intelligent Monkeys who are pro Israel.

Thank you,

With love,

Louise

http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/region/10058382.html

Ah tyler why'd ya just have to give the link, I hate giving stuff like that the luxury of my hit.

I will not do that again, so we do not have to give them more than one hit.  Note the HEADS UP above I posted.  I pasted it. Ta da.

 :D Louise,
Well, I didn't write the article, lol!  Wish I had and could but he is just a fav of mine.  Mrs Red calls me Anna Coulter sometimes because I just do not tolerate well the opinion of others when those opinions could well just get me or my future grandchildren killed by some religious extremists.  I just go off on them, can't help it.

Today the ground incursion began and it is already reported that IRANIANs are among the Hezbollah soldiers captured and killed including some stating they were trained in Iran and Syria.

As you know I am not only pro-Israeli but pro-Lebanese and I mean the Lebanon where Christians are not slaughtered and overrun by Muslims who infiltrate posing as nice families, etc. until their number is sufficient to either take over a district completely and chase the Christians and others out or they openly start fighting with them or win by the ballot box in a country not theirs at all.  

You are so correct, Louise, when you state that the goal of the extremist is to eliminate all non-muslims not just from what they consider their territory but the entire world.  Recently they have added Spain as belonging to Islam and the Europeans are too dense and weak to do anything about it as they become Eurabia without a single protest.

 No one with a bit of sense could not support Israel because if Israel loses we lose.  I'm old fashioned, too, and believe God gave that land to Israel and I would have never asked that Israel return one bit won in wars launched against Israel either but be allowed to hold all they could take even if all the way to Cairo, etc.  I am serious about that which some say makes me a Zionist when I am in fact a good Catholic girl.  A country needs to be large enough to defend itself in land area and I don't think Israel is.  Needs buffer zone room considering the neighbors.

We can fight them there or we can fight them here and while my heart bleeds for Israel I would still chose fight them there.  Israel is us right now and they are doing the fighting in our stead just as we are doing it for the rest of the world gone too sorry to even support freedom and democracy any more.  And those too weak-willed to stand up to this now are going to suffer the consequences much sooner than they think.  EU population bailing out in record numbers to get away from the crime and hate of the muslims there are just going to abandon ship or put on their turban in the not too distant future.

I pray for Israel daily.  And if a person thinks they are not supportive of Israel, they should ask themselves whom they would rather meet in a dark ally--a Muslim or a Jew?  Goes to basic values and respect for human life and all that.  We share Judeo-Christian values which are a far cry from those who behead and thrive on death and gore whose goal is our ultimate mutual elimination.

Didn't mean to rant. . . .should not watch the excitable Shepherd Stone.

Hi Anna,

Yes, I know you didn't write the article but I thank you for posting it.

Mrs. Red calls you Anna Coulter? That's hilarious, I love it.

In 1974 I had a girlfriend named Georgette Kikano from Lebanon who was a Christian. She told me all about Beirut and how fabulous it was to live there - the Paris of the Middle East. I got an education about Lebanon from her and over the years, I was distressed to see Lebanon go down.

You are right, Anna, in all truth I am glad the fighting in not in the USA either. I believe the world is "letting" Israel fight terrorists so they don't have to. Besides the war for independence in 1948, the longest war Israel ever engaged in was the Six Day War. So it's a nasty surprise that Israel is fighting this war for such a long time. But Israel is not really fighting Hezbollah, it is fighting Iran. And you are right "Israel is "us" right now and they are doing the fighting in our stead."

Frankly, I'm worried. I do not feel positive. When I heard that Iranian soldiers were captured by Israel in Lebanon, I got the feeling that this is a war to the death. Iran is much stronger than Israel. Israel was the mythological mega force that no country wanted to mess with. How the mightly have fallen. Now it's clear that Israel cannot stand up to Iran. But I believe they will fight until the last soldier is backed up into the ocean. And if the USA is fighting Iran by proxy in Israel, the USA needs to get more involved (as horrible as that sounds). But it will never end. I don't see a positive outcome.

You know what? Why don't Israel and Iran just bomb each other and let this be over? The end of Israel will be the end of the world. If this is not the END TIMES, I don't know what is.

Thank you for the rant. And who is the excitable Shepherd Stone? Do ya mean FOX's Shepherd Smith?

I want to correct my miss-statement below. I meant to write "Why don't Iran and the USA just hurry up and bomb each other and let this be over?"
*****************
Why don't Israel and Iran just bomb each other and let this be over?

I've been glued to the TV all day. This morning I heard that Israel was proceeding with a huge ground force against Hezbollah. I saw the tanks on the move. By this afternoon, Olmert accepted a UN Security Council cease fire proposal. Kofi and Condi are working on the exact terms.

1) The huge ground force offensive of this morning was a bluff. They moved the tanks but were not going to use them.

2) Israel's superior military force is in the air, not on the ground. Even so, no one can wipe out all the Hezbollah cells all over the world.

2) Because Israel could not win this quickly as expected, Hezbollah is declared the victor.

3) Olmert will take the fall for Israel, thus Israel will save face a little due to having an "ineffective leader" and they will elect someone else.

Yes, it was nice of the MSM to announce the plans Israel had about advancing.  I have come to despise the MSM.  All of them.

And here is yet another good article on the fate of the Christians in Lebanon and how they were scattered to the ends of the earth while no one helped them at all.  This was before it was understood that the first ploy of the terrorists is to feign being the victim.  Anna


THANK YOU, ISRAEL!"
-- Exiled Lebanese Christians Speak Out From The Diaspora

 

By Brigitte Gabriel

"Thank you Israel," is the sentiment echoing from around the world from the millions of Christian Lebanese, driven out of our homeland. The Lebanese Foundation for Peace, an international group of Lebanese Christians, made the following statement in a press release to Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert concerning the latest Israeli attacks against Hezbollah:

"We urge you to hit them hard and destroy their terror infrastructure. It is not [only] Israel who is fed up with this situation, but the majority of the silent Lebanese in Lebanon who are fed up with Hezbollah and are powerless to do anything out of fear of terror retaliation."

Their statement continues:

"On behalf of thousands of Lebanese, we ask you to open the doors of Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport to thousands of volunteers in the Diaspora willing to bear arms and liberate their homeland from [Islamic] fundamentalism. We ask you for support, facilitation and logistics in order to win this struggle and achieve together the same objectives: Peace and Security for Lebanon and Israel and our future generations to come."

The once dominate Lebanese Christians, responsible for giving the world "the Paris of the Middle East," as Lebanon used to be known, were killed, massacred, driven out of their homes and scattered around the world as radical Islam declared its holy war in the 70s and took hold of the country of Lebanon. Those who have survived this horror voice an opinion on the Islamist threat that they and Israelis have learned from personal experience.

While the world protected the PLO withdrawing from Lebanon in 1983 with Israel hot on their heals, another more volatile and religiously exteme organization was being born: Hezbollah, "the Party of God," founded by Ayatollah Khomeini and financed by Iran. It was Hezbollah who blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon in October, 1983 killing 241 Americans and 67 French paratroopers that same day. President Reagan then ordered U.S./Multilateral Force units to withdraw and closed the books on the marine massacre and US involvement in Lebanon, in February 1984.

The civilized world, which erroneously vilified the Christians and Israel back then, and continues to vilify Israel now, was not paying attention. While America and the rest of the world were concerned about the Israeli/PLO problem, terrorist regimes in Syria and Iran fanned Islamic radicalism in Lebanon and around the world. Hezbollah's Shiite extremists began multiplying like proverbial rabbits, supplanting moderate Sunnis and Christians. Twenty-five years later, they have generated enough followers to vote themselves into 24 seats in the Lebanese parliament. And since the Israeli pull-out from southern Lebanon in 2000, Lebanon has become a Hezaballah terrorist base, completely run and controlled by Syria through its puppet Lebanese President and an armed Hezbollah "state within a state."

The latest attacks on Israel have been orchestrated by Iran and Syria, driven by two different interests. Syria considers Lebanon a part of "greater" Syria. Young Syrian President Assad and his Ba'athist military-intelligence henchmen in Damascus are using this latest eruption of violence to prove to the Lebanese that they need the Syrian presence to protect them from Israeli "aggression" and to stabilize the country.

Iran is conveniently using its Lebanese puppet army, Hezbollah, to distract the attention of world (and particularly Western leaders meeting at the G-8 summit) from the Iranian pursuit of nuclear weapons. Apocalyptic Iranian President Ahmadinejad and the ruling Mullah clerics in Tehran want to assert hegemony in the Islamic world under the banner of Shia Mahdist madness.

No matter how much the West avoids facing the reality of Islamic extremism in the Middle East, the West cannot hide from the fact that the same Hamas and Hezbollah extremists fighting Israel, share the same radical Islamic ideology that has previously fomented terrorist carnage and death in America and Europe. This is the same Islamist terror which Iran is threatening to unleash in America again, through co-ordinated suicide-bomb attacks, if America tries to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons (Hamas, for example, now has the largest terrorist infrastructure on American soil).

At this point, the civilized world must unite in fighting the same enemies afflicting Israel, since they ultimately threaten the rest of the world with the plague of global terrorism. We need to stop analyzing these enemies' differences as Sunni-Hamas or Shiite-Hezbollah. Rather it is time to start understanding that their common bond in their fight against the West lies in radical Islam (the virus of extremist Islamofascism).

Anna, do you remember where this article originated?

tidycat

Hello,

This is Rabbi Schwartz's latest report on his experience on the Israeli / Lebanon border. He has arrived safely back in Los Angeles. He has a peculiar way of writing and spelling that I won't change but if it's something really weird, I'll put the meaning in parenthesis. And orthodox Jews do not write the name of God because it is too holy. They abbreviate it with G-d. I'm not an orthodox Jew.

From Schwartzie's Desk:
8/24/2006 2:07:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
*************

I am back in LA, Thank G-d, and will share what happened with me at the Lebanon border just a few days ago:

This takes place one day before the "Cease Fire" (my luck). There R different kinds of Charity. There is Charity with your $; then there is Charity with your Body. I was in a cab a few days before the "Cease Fire" & the radio was turned up loud. It took me awhile 2 figure out what was going on, but then I got it. The radio announcer was just reading a list of names, ranks, & ages. I was just sitting in the back listening (especially 2 the ages; they were mostly young, 20 somethings), & feeling Helpless & noticing tht the cab driver was crying. It must've been catchy, bcz I started crying quietly to myself  about their wives that would never marry them & their beautiful children that would never B born, etc. I figured that since I don’t really have a lot of greenbacks, but  I'm here in this country already, the least I could do 2 help out is visit the soldiers rite B4 they go into battle, & cheer them up, put Tfilin on them, etc. (either of two boxes containing Biblical verses and black, leather straps attached to them which are used in Jewish prayer). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tefillin

I wasn't prepared 4 how sincerely appreciative they all would B. I was also not prepared 2 B in an active WAR Zone! But more abt tht later. We drove up toward the North in a civillian car. We heard that since there was talk of a Cease Fire, the shelling on the cities in the North was particularly intense (but we really had no way of perceiving what that meant in real terms). We 3 were Americans & none of us had ever been in ANY Army, let alone in active Combat. We decided that we needed a little extra juice (AKA Mitzah (a good deed) Merit 4 protection). Since we had 2 pass thru the city of Tiberias on our way up north, we stopped @ the Tomb of Rabbi Mayer - the master of miracles, 2 pray. Tiberias is on the shore of the Sea of Galilee also known in Hebrew as Lake Kineret. Its one of the 4 Holy Cities of the Holyland. But its also a very crowded summer resort with many luxurious, 5 star plus, sky scraper hotels. The population is over a 100 thousand. With only 70% of the population having fled, it was an eerie GHOST TOWN. All the traffic lights were just blinking yellow. I guess they figured that since we were virtually the ONLY civillian car out, they really didnt need the lights anymore. As we drove around the Kineret, we were surprised 2 C, on the usually crowded beach --- NOBODY was there. Usually there R several tourist trap stalls, rite outside the entrance to Rabbi Mayers Tomb, selling kipahs & Mezuzahs & incense etc.  Everything was closed. But inside there were 8  men tht were waiting for two more so they could have a service with a proper Minyan (Quorem of 10).

Just then I met a new guy who popped in, whom I knew from Safed. So my 2 frnds went inside 2 the little Synagogue next 2 Rabbi Mayer's tomb & made the Minyan, & I stepped out with my buddy 2 talk. I asked him the OBVIOUS question with the two letter nonword tht is so explicit & descriptive in Yiddish "NU?!" meaning - So how's it living in Safed these days? He said tht on the 2nd day of the war a missile hit in Safed three houses away from his beautiful three story, with the amazing view that I still remember. (Tht shock was enough that his wife totally FREAKED & his 2 kids were terrified & they left a few hours later.) He went outside 2 C what happened & saw 4 young children, ages 4 thru 11, covered in dust & soot but standing still - unmoving -  actually, as if frozen in shock, expressionless. Then he saw that underneath the grey dust there was red slowly seeping thru the grey, so he took all of them 2 the only hospital there is in the (formerly) quaint little town that is Safed. He was very thankful 2 G-d  that it wasn’t a direct hit thru his home or he wouldn’t be telling me the story.

After praying @ the famous Tomb of Rabbi Mayer - Master of Miracles, in the Holy city (now EMPTY) of Tiberias, we drove for another 45 minutes due north 2 the border of Israel & Lebanon. Now there were NO civillian cars, only army vehicles & tanks & foot soldiers & they all stared in wonder & us civillians in our "regular" car. The noise of battle was deafening. It was mostly our cannons but somehow it was still quite terrifying. We 1st passed the city of Kiryat Shmona. It was a very nice city, with abt Fifty thousand inhabitants. It was one of the hardest hit by the Hizbullah shelling for an entire MONTH & was a worse ghost town than Tiberias or Safed. We didn’t see one civillian in the streets, but we did see what happens when a detached single family home takes a direct hit from a Katyusha rocket. It was a pathetic skeleton shell that smacked of violence, intrusion, & Death. A few minutes past Kiryat Shmoneh was a little town called Metulah. Its the furthest town north towards the border & the army had taken over the Empty town.

We drove for another few minutes & suddenly, on the side of the road to our right there was a huge wide open field that was the "staging ground". We parked on the side of the empty road & went into the camp. We thought the noise couldn’t get any louder but here there was a significant elevation in decibels. The Staging Ground had many huge tents with about 50 soldiers in each tent & abt 100 tanks. When night fell, the platoons would jog all night with a heavy back pack into Lebanon to the battle field, into Active combat. The mood in the tents was somber; yng men, mostly from ages 18 thru 23, contemplating their last few hours B4 the inevitable UNKNOWN - would they come back ALIVE ? Would they come back wounded - maimed 4 life, without limbs etc. As a rabbi & public speaker for the last 36 yrz of my life this had 2 B one of my toughest gigs, by far! The 3 of us had Tfilin & walked into the 1st tent. The first impression of these battle hardened soldiers was incredulity. The unanimous, unspoken question was "What in G-d's name R U guys doing here???" I saw that we immediately had the edge bcz even those who were not connected 2 religion figured out what a few older men with beards & Kipahs were doing there, carrying Tfilin. And they slowly recognized & very much appreciated ppl coming to visit them just B4 they went into a fierce battle, & help them pray for their safe return.

My Hebrew isn’t that good & I knew that about 70 to 80% of the fellows understood English, so instead of pussying around, I announced in a loud voice, "we Americans only have the 4th of July ONCE a year but U guys have it every day here - It's VERY LOUD!". When a few officers smiled @ the naive dumb religious Americans, the ice was broken & they began to feel sorry for us crazy fanatic but well meaning civilians that cared enough about them to make this fieldtrip. After a few seconds, some of the more friendly ones said, "we don’t even hear it anymore."  Now that is quite hard to believe. Others said that when the Hizbullah get really close, now that is called LOUD! At this point, I couldn’t imagine what they were talking about.

Then a very tough officer with a Commanding personality & a mucho macho bald haircut stood up. He was about 6' 2'', built like a brick s--t  house & all could C he was not into anything lite or EZ. He said, "I'm not religious & I don't put on Tfilin, but out of respect for U tht U came here, I'll do it". Of course, after him, everyone else slowly came forward & asked us to help them put on Tfilin since only two of them knew how to do it. It was quite moving for us 3 gringos. U could actually see fear & trepidation in the eyes of the young soldiers. This was no fun & games scene. Some soldiers whispered 2 us that we shoud really leave soon since there was intelligence that the enemy knew about this staging area & were gonna try to knock it out soon & it was gonna get dangerous. I couldn’t understand what could get MORE dangerous than being there rite then. We found out pretty quick! Our cannons started working overtime without a stop & really pounding the enemy positions that were only about 10 miles away. The noise became almost unbearable. I asked a soldier Y the change? He said that the enemy was trying to hit this staging area & in order to stop them, our cannons were trying to make them bzy. Well, the IDF did a GR8 job but two missles did get thru & landed about the equivalent of two blocks away & started a fire in the open field.

We had been there 3 hours & had been 2 most of the tents already. But those bombs that fell close by definitely influenced my decision 2 persuade my frnds 2 call it a day & get back into the car & try 2 outrun the bombs. We hugged some of the fellows & wished them well & said goodbye. They were ALL EXTREMELY appreciative. As we passed thru Metulah we heard air raid sirens, & then we again heard the sirens as we went thru Kiryat Shmoneh; but instead of stopping & getting out of the car 2 find an air raid shelter we just drove faster, & Baruch Hashem ( Thank Al-mighty G-d, Master of the Cosmos), it was Bashert (fated) tht we were not reduced 2 body parts & I get to share this with Y'all.

With love and peace , Schwartzie

Thanks for the story Louise.

Louise,
Thanks so much for bringing us that story...

Yes thank you Louise. It really hits home when you are hearing the story from someone who was there as compared to just the media.

Thank you all. I was stunned when I read it.

Louise, that is an amazing story.  It really makes me feel as if I was there.  Thank you for sharing it.  In many ways it was so sad but in others, it spoke to the caring of these "religious Americans" and what they risked to be there, to show their support.

I know the muslim world thinks the Hezbollah were hero's for standing up to the Israelis, but anyone with 'open eyes' can see that Hezbollah and Lebanon payed dearly for their actions.

Comparatively speaking all the rockets did little damage to Israel.

Hopefully the launching of the rockets was comparable to 'suicide bombing' with IDF taking out the launchers and the attendants almost instantly.

Now all we have to wait for is the ultimate 'suicide bomb' from Iran.

Also pretty darn sure the Hezbollah casualties were never really reported as well, I'll bet they are really hurting.

Does look like the Olemert government should be chastised for fighting the action too timidly and tentatively.

Another thing that the muslim press isn't mentioning is that the IDF still occupies southern Lebanon until the UN steps up to relieve them.

.
Thomas Sowell: People are calling for a cease-fire in the interests of peace. But there have been more cease-fires in the Middle East than anywhere else. If cease-fires actually promoted peace, the Middle East would be the most peaceful region on the face of the earth instead of the most violent.

An aggressor today knows that if his aggression fails, he will still be protected from the full retaliatory power and fury of those he attacked because there will be hand-wringers demanding a cease fire, negotiations and concessions. (“Pacifists versus peace,” Thomas Sowell, Conservative Chroncile, July 21, 2006)



.

Yep, kinda why now adays you gotta hit them fast and hit them hard from the start before the media and UN hand wringers get started.

Hello again,

During the recent war, I saw a woman in the local supermarket wearing an olive drab T-shirt with the bold insignia of the Israeli Defense Forces in yellow. She had a small gold Star of David around her neck. I told her I would die for a T-shirt like that and where did she get it. She found it online and told me to Google around for all things Jewish.

I found a company in Tel Aviv and ordered a medium sized shirt. $18 including shipping and an Israeli postmark on the package. It arrived yesterday and the medium is too big. I was hoping to wear it with a long layered black skirt and a black velvet shawl. Ya know, a real contrast - feminine and militant. LOL. Those cylindrical things in the upper left part of the photo are wind chimes which I need to correct the fung shui bad luck for having three doors in a row - the idea is to break the energy coming in from going out. Feng Shui is a whole other world.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/LouiseVargas/DSC01144copy.jpg)

So I'm gonna order a "small" and send the "medium" to my estranged daughter. I know at the very least, it will make her laugh. The tag at the back of the neck says "100% cotton, made in Israel." I think she will wear it.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/LouiseVargas/DSC01138copy.jpg)

The top letters are the Hebrew letters for "IDF" and the bottom semi circle says "Israeli Defense Forces" in English letters.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/LouiseVargas/DSC01139copy.jpg)

The part that is written in Hebrew above the semi circle ... I don't know what it means but when I order the next shirt, I will be sure to find out. The site has tons of information.

Another thought that could make you crazy - English reads from left to right. Hebrew reads from right to left.

I better go to sleep soon as I'm fading.

Oh wow, that is an awesome outfit!  I love it....   When you get your other 'small' shirt, you have to get a pic with it on.  That's what I call a fashion statement! :)