Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/candleman2justice2007.jpg)

Good morning, Monkey-monks!

Whew!  Thought you had abandoned us.  What's this about the Saints?

Lil Puma - what area of the country do you live in? It's still warm here in Tennessee today. We have the heat turned off and the windows open again.

They just said on TV that the FBI has checked Ben Owenby's computer to see if Ben had any contact with Shawn or Devlin and NOTHING was found.

41 degrees here in Southern California and I'm freezing!

I live in Chicago.  That's why I asked about the Saints.  They'll be here next weekend.

41 degrees is shorts and t-shirt weather  :shock:

Well, we're supposed to have a high in the 40s tomorrow, so I'm enjoying the flukes of El Nino while I can.  :lol:

Some reporter found a lone Saints fan on the snowy streets of Chicago -- it's coming down much harder now -- says he's from NO.  He was followed by a bunch of guys do a Bears rap thang.   :lol:  America does love their sports.   :)

Just a quick story from my own personal experience about children.  When my daughter was in high school her Senior year, this young man started high school here.  He was very quiet.  He was in an English class and my daughter was in and out of the class often because the school newspaper was in the same room.  She had to visit during the day to use the computer.  The first week or so she came home and told me about this nice little fellow named Nathan and how he was so shy.  Well, he seemed to talk to her a lot and she sort of just took him under her wing and helped him adjust to life at a new high school.  After about a month he confided in her that he was living with his mother and that his father had died in June of the that year.   He talked and talked to her and one day she came home and confided in me that he was indeed living with his mother, long divorced from his dad and that his dad had died in June.  The mother had taken him, she had only visitation rights at the time, the day after his dad had died and brought him here.  He had known only his dad since he was about 6 years old.  The dad had removed him from a terrible homelife with a mother that was mentally ill.  Yes, she is on treatment.  My daughter wrote letters to his family and they were so happy, since they didn't know where he was or anything.  It was really a sad situation.  She was very mean to this kid, all she really cared about was this kid's inheritance.  I am not kidding here.  This mother even threw this kid's cell phone out the window one day driving down the interstate and threatened to push him out.  He jumped out of the car and ran away and called my daughter.  She was so upset that she finally told me everything and we went to her school counselor. It took months of legal wrangling and all kinds of stuff, but he graduated from his old high school and is attending college now and plans on becoming an attorney and delving into politics.  This kid is really intelligent.  He just didn't have the resources to help him until my kid came along and had the courage to step out and do something.  The mother  threatened everyone and the police came to the school, but Nathan got help and is now one of my daughter's dearest friends.  Funny how life intermingles.  This story is much more detailed than I have related here but that is the jist of it anyway.  It's a story I never imagined would happen to us, but it did.

This was a smart kid, but had no way of making any contacts with anyone so I wonder had my own kid not been so nosy where would he be now?Nobody at the school even noticed this boy and his troubles.  He was 15 at the time too. Just pondering everyone's thoughts on the other boy about why some do things and others don't.

Leslie's post from previous LD thread:

From Solo di Pueblo: January 12, 2007

E caso di Natalee Holloway a causa un daño enorme na economia y na turismo di Aruba.

Translated

The case of Natalee Holloway is the cause of enormous damage to the tourism economy of Aruba.

 :!:

Yep, the saints are comin.....
Seriously it is especially hard for me as I grew up being a Bears fan , then moved down south and have followed the Saints through so many bad years that it is a kick for them to have made it this far.... unlike my hubby and son I will have a hard time rooting against DaBears.....

I've read that you should open a window or two for at least 10-15 minutes a day.  Indoor air pollution has become a key factor in increased cases of asthma, bronchitis and cancer due to chemicals in carpet, furniture and cleaning products.

People do that here too, anything over 40 is considered good for shorts!

So it finally made the news!   :roll:  :lol:

Because I work for an agency that provides preschool classes, we have to have indepth education every year about child abuse. As a couple of people here have already said, it is not difficult to intimidate children into compliance with whatever is said and done to them - even teenage children. That's one of the things that we're told every year.

Lalas, thanks for your story about your daughter's friend. It illustrates what happens to so many children when they are placed in a threatening situation. Even young teens are not truly in control of their lives because they don't have the resources to be self-sustaining. I'm so glad you and your daughter had the courage to help that young man.

Lala's, your daughter's compassion for the new shy kid made a dramatic difference in this guy's life.  Shows how a little kindness and interest can do so much.  You should be so proud!  That's a feel-good story.

Lalas, your daughter is really a special person to reach out to that boy.... that story touched my heart...

Klaas,  we are in the far east part of Phoenix, and it was 22 degrees here at 7AM.  I'm with AZLady,  baby it is cold outside!!  All of the ficus trees are bronze, brown or black in our neighborhood.  It looks like a bomb went off last night, and all the plants here a krispy critters. Many broken pipes in our area.  Very strange weather.  At least you would think we would get some snow or something to celebrate with all this cold, but it is dry and sunny.

No surprise Lil Puma. The truth is hard to come by in Aruba.

 :D  :wink:

Took 'em long enough to figure it out.... :roll:

Growing up in Chicago, I thought that being a Bears fan was a lot like the mob.  You can't just quit.  It's a lifelong commitment.   :P

....and you were right....smart monkey....!

Yep :lol:

Lala's, I'm remembering some story in the news this past year about a woman committing suicide.  A neighbor was interviewed and said the woman was usually quiet and kept to herself, so it was odd the one day when she started talking to the neighbor who was out in the yard.  She just kept talking and talking.  Found out the next day the woman killed herself.   :(   Neighbor said she didn't say anything about being sad or depressed.  Sad that no one had picked up on what she was feeling or maybe they did but didn't know what to do.

Turned out that the boy's father was a doctor and that he had moved him away to prevent the nutty mother from being around him.  His dad had cancer and didn't tell anyone how sick he was until just a few months before he died.  This kid didn't even get to go to his dad's funeral or anything.  She just took him and ran with him at the funeral home.  It was really sad.  He thought she was taking him to get food and she just kept driving.  The full story is unbelievable.  Let's just say it had the happiest of endings and that's all that counts.  And you better believe I am proud of my child for standing up for what she thought was right.

You have every right to be proud. I know from other things you have told me about your daughter that she is an extra special young lady.

I've got to get some stuff done.  See ya later.

BT
She is, but I don't take the credit. It's all the Good Lord's doing.  I couldn't have been blessed with a better child.

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000051/005132.htm

Public outrage in Suriname over GSM porn videos
Monday, January 15, 2007

by Ivan Cairo
Caribbean Net News Suriname Correspondent
Email: ivan@caribbeannetnews.com

PARAMARIBO, Suriname: Citizens in Suriname of all walks of life have expressed their anger over a recent wave of short pornographic videos being distributed via GSM mobile phones especially among teens and youths.

Police meanwhile have launched a massive hunt for the individuals who might have initiated this. In Suriname distribution of pornographic material is prohibited by law and regarded as a criminal offence.

Members of Parliament have called upon the government to ban cell phones from schools in order to control what is being sent to school children via cell phones.

Justice Minister Chandrikapersad Santokhi on Friday, in a response to questions from Members of Parliament, disclosed that several individuals have already been questioned by the police. However no arrests were made since none of these individuals seemed to be involved in the distribution of the movies.

Several parliamentarians lamented the degrading of moral standards and values among youths, demanding immediate action from the government to halt this disturbing development. President Ronald Venetiaan responded by saying that, especially in this case, the youth should not be given all the blame.

He stated that adults are producing the movies, so if any action should be taken it is against these individuals. “It is we as adults who are poisoning our children with filth,” said the head of state.

In one of the movies, a young Surinamese woman is having sex with four men. The man whose GSM phone was used to record this event was also grilled by detectives. According to police officers he maintained that his phone was stolen, so he didn’t know who is responsible for the distribution.

Other participants in the gang bang who were also questioned told police that the woman was a willing participant in the sex act. Police was unable to question the woman. According to her parents she moved to the Netherlands after the pictures were distributed.

Justice Minister Santokhi told parliament that, since all individuals involved in this particular movie were adults, police had no grounds to arrest them. Only if minors were engaged in the sex acts could they have been prosecuted.

Meanwhile, several school principals, teachers and teens have indicated that banning cell phones from schools is not the solution for the problem.

“You can’t stop the advancement of technology and cell phones are now part of everyday life,” one argued.

One teen suggests that parents should not buy expensive mobile phones with all kind of options and cameras for their children. “Just a cheap and simple cell phone will also do the job to stay in touch with your kids,” the 17-year-old girls suggests.

“In class the use of cellular phones during lessons or exams is already prohibited, but before or after school hours or during the breaks, you have no control at all,” said a high school principal.

In parliament, the media, especially TV stations, also came under fire for broadcasting movies and music videos showing graphic violence and sex acts and other behaviour that could have a bad influence on children and youths. Also there was a call to retract licences of shops and supermarkets that are displaying and selling pornographic DVD movies over the counter.

Minister Santokhi disclosed that the dormant Movie Labelling Board is being reactivated in order to regulate what is being aired on television.

Sorry this is so long...but found quotes about blood cleaning fluid.  Can't find primary link.

Izzy Mae
we don't know 'who' was actually present when the crime scene investigator swabbed the blood found inside the car (and on the roof) and we really don't know whose car it was found in - reports said there was blood found in Deepak's and reports said there was blood found in Joran's (a van der sloot car). It's possible, one car had blood and one car had chocolate. And since it was reported that "the blood" sample was not Natalee's, then WHOSE blood was it -- the person Satish hit with the car?? ..afterall, reports say blood was on the roof.
Like I said, which car remains a mystery... definitely reports of blood found though --

Hasibokos:
UPDATE 10: There have been some reports of blood found in the car of one of the suspects. And according to prior information, Natalee did ride with the three suspects the night before she was missing. At this moment the blood is being tested to see if it is the blood of the missing girl, Natalee.

UPDATE 15: The largest newspaper in Holland, Telegraaf, dedicated attention on its front page of the Sunday edition to the case of Natalee Holloway with large pictures of Natalee and the Dutch suspect Joran. The translation of the Dutch article published today is:
Title: More proof against Joran: Dark clouds hang above the head of Joran van der S. There has been more proof that the 17-year old son of a Dutch judge had something to do with the disappearance of the American student Natalee Holloway in Aruba. Joran is one of the last persons to see the 18-birthday girl alive.
Joran was the first one to be heard as a witness, but since.. (snip)Meanwhile blood tracks have been found in the car.

UPDATE 16: According to local Aruban media, the results of the blood test on the blood found in the car are in, and it appears that the blood is not of the missing teenager Natalee Holloway. Also the suspect (presumably Joran van der SlooT) that gave the statement that ‘something bad’ had happened, presumably was referring to possible use of alcohol and drugs...

UPDATE 19: On Monday the local papers of Aruba are reporting mostly the recent developments in this case. According to AweMeinta the fluid, that at first was believed to be blood, turned out to be something else. The biggest newspaper in Papiamentu, EXTRA, is reporting that the attorneys of the 2 men who were initially arrested (since 5th of June), said that no incriminating evidence has been found to keep their clients in custody. The 2 men have yet to be charged formally and as a result the attorneys will demand the release of these alleged suspects on Monday. Noraina Pietersz , the attorney of the thirty-year-old suspect Antonius “Mickey” John stated: “This has become a game, an illogical investigation.

Fox News: Aruban authorities investigate blood found in car.
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (search) said.,
“We have found some blood in the car, but we don’t know to whom it belongs,” he said.

Riehl World reports:
Natalee Holloway: Blood In Car Unrelated To Case
We have been informed that ABC reported on air that early tests indicate the blood found in the Honda suggest that it is unrelated to the case.
it goes from.. Blood Found to Not Natalee's Blood to Not Blood but Cleaning Fluid to Blood Found but Unrelated -- sure.

http://tinyurl.com/ybuhcd

Much as I would like to hang around, I have to jump in the shower and get my son to the doctors office.... it may be a long day.... they are "working us in" :roll:  :wink:

Thanks Buckeye

Klaas, the article you posted may hold the key to why the Kalpoe's were required to leave their home and cannot go back. Just a thought.

There's something in Dave's book about the blood in Deepak's car. I don't have it with me, so I'm relaying this from memory, but I think he says the Prime Minister, Odubur(sp?) confirmed there was blood in it. I'll look it up when I have the book.

good luck cubbee & son

There is a special place in Heaven for your daughter, and you, for allowing her and supporting her in helping this young man.  How few are left in the world like that.  Ohmigod, you deserve more stars in your crown than I can count.  I am sitting here crying for sadness at his plight but joy for the outcome. :cry:

I am so glad your son is fine.  I hope you did not think I was tyring to scare you unnecessarily nor was I implying you were not a good mother.  I think I know what a caring and compassionate person you are.  The problem is the lay person does not know the dangers of asthma.  Until you have worked ER and had a little boy come in its crying and scared father's arms who was too late for resuscitation, you do not know how bad it can be.  I think it is incumbent upon doctors and their staffs to warn parents about the hazards of asthma.  It is not a benign disease by any means.  I am so glad he is fine.  Asthma is a sneaky one.  It can be triggered by something you least expect, weather, perfume, dog hair, the smell of some people, etc.  It just lurks looking for a chance without warning.

Just posted by Crioyo on the front page of SM:

Another suicide this morning. Tow truck driver, last name wessels. Gassed himself with car exhaust I think..
Found today. They say he was prob lonely, and his wife btw
killed herself a couple years ago by drinking poison, according to what they said on the news.

So you see Monkeys, Arubans are sad..The boycott will probably get more of us depressed and killed.

Thank you so very much, Buckeye!  The tinyurl doesn't work for me.  Should it?  Didn't think anyone was even paying attention to the things to send to deVries and can't tell you how much it means to have someone else help us!

I take it you had this saved?  The new Haskiboko only goes back to about May of last year, right?  Or did you find the old site?  That's the place most of the interviews with KJ were posted.

Thanks again.  Did you post this in the thread for things to send to Peter de Vries in the Important Document Section?  I will if you didn't or
MsMarple will with accreditation to you.  She is tops at that.   :wink:

Gee, it took them all this time to figure that out?  duh

That could be worded a bit differently.  How about Lack of Investigation Into Disappearance of Natalee Holloway the cause of enormous damage to tourism?

. :D

Anna - just emailed you the long url for the tiny one above.  It worked for me.

Hmmm....I can't believe the boycott had anything to do with this unfortunate person's suicide. However, if the boycott is indeed making Arubans be depressed, I think now might be the time for them to start speaking out against the corruption that is causing the boycott.

I think Crioyo was being sarcastic.

Perhaps instead of killing themselves, they might want to organize one of those protests like they did against Beth except this time against those who refused to investigate and used techniques the Dutch law professors called insane and unprofessional.

Just a thought. . . .

,

Thanks, Klaas!  The long one worked fine.  Very interesting stuff on that page.  Think maybe the whole link should go to PdVries?  

Since it has the subject highlighted nicely, might not hurt.  

Also, we are now listing suicides on the Murder and Crime Thread as most places do consider it more or less a crime as a self-inflicted homicide, etc.

Why on earth were they calling Aruba One HAPPY Island of all things with a suicide rate so high?  Talk about your misnomers!

.

Does anyone know when Peter Devries is going to do his next segment on Natalee?

Katysmom - that picture is really cute but just a little large, lol  :lol:

No, don't know when De Vries plans his followup.  On his website it appears his next show will be in March but it doesn't say what the show will cover.

I was trying to put on a new avatar, but once again, I've proven I'm an idiot.  I just can't do it.

What is this island, some kind of an island for suicide cults.  I have lived in this same town about the size of Aruba for 12 years and to my knowledge, there has been one suicide here, an older man who had metastatic cancer to his brain.  Good Lord, this has to be Guiness record for suicide in Aruba.

And that was my thought exactly, Anna.  NO one is depressed about anything except wondering if they will be the next one on Aruba's hit list.  That is a scary place.  I think the suicides are more likely murders, but it would be hard to prove as no investigation will be forthcoming from Suicide Island.

I was trying to put on a new avatar, but once again, I've proven I'm an idiot.  I just can't do it.[/quote]


No, you aren't.  When I came to SM I couldn't even follow the Threads.  If you have the free Photobucket account, you can chose avatar size or 100 x 100.  Or click edit over the little photo and resize it smaller.

You just have to fool around with the little images to get used to them and changing sizes, etc.

But you can do it if I can for I have no computer training at all, ever.  And am not so inclined nor talented in any way.

.

Probably because the resolution of that photo is too large.

If that photo was in photobucket you can resize it there.  Click on edit photo then resize.  Change it to avatar size.

Tell me about it.  My DH  bought a jersey...the kind the players wear.  Good grief.  He wore it all day Sunday.

"The Dutch Act" traditionally refers to suicide.  International statistics do not support the Dutch as being the largest number of suicides but rather another Scandinavian country, similar genetics, etc. And we never know how truthful in reporting things are where self-notification is used.

Web references to The Dutch Act and suicide

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Dutch%20act&r=d&db=web

With a family of Dutch ethnicity/ancestry, these things are better known than not I suppose.

.

I think maybe it is the Finnish who carry the highest suicide rate per capita but that is from memory and not from looking it up.  I wonder how Arubans compare.

But again, self-reporting being what it is, might be like the one murder in the last twenty years crap!   :?

And I wonder why the Scandanavians all have such a high rate.  Lack of sunshine might be considered a reason, seasonal affective disorder or something perhaps.

.

That's what I've read, Anna. In those countries where they have several months without real sunlight, they do suffer more from SAD.

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Rudy Croes: Holloway case Has Caused enormous Damage to the Tourism Economy of Aruba

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/01/15/rudy-croes-holloway-case-has-caused-enormous-damage-to-the-tourism-economy-of-aruba-2/

(http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Quick_Draw_McGraw_small.jpg)

Far be it from anyone saying that Rudy Croes is not quick on the draw. It has only taken nearly 20 months for Rudy Croes to admit the obvious … The Natalee Holloway case has caused enormous damage to the tourism and economy of Aruba

Sounds like Sadaam's brothers and cohorts lost their heads.  :roll:

I wonder who the tow truck driver worked for? :roll:

Kinda nice to see someone other than infidels losing their heads for a change.

Couldn't possibly be 'Automotive Enterprises'.

It's Rudy Croes' fault for covering it up.  He did the damage to his own island.

I was going to say "lack of sunshine" and you typed it just as I was thinking it.  I wonder if too much sunshine and temperate climate breeds rapists and murders, PIMPS.

No, I think it's just an 'island' thing.

Good Afternoon to all!  the above certainly put a smile on my face!  YES!!!!

Good One, Klaas!  :lol:

The fact that the case has caused so much harm is the stickiest point of all for me. It's the single most convincing factor that screams these circumstances are more than just a girl being slipped a Micky and accidently overdosed. A whole economy is suffering for it! Whatever happened, they officially decided that the truth was more harmful than the effect on tourism that leaving this case with corruption stains airing in the breeze, would have and that's scary!

Of course, I can't help but wonder if they just didn't stupidly miscalculate things all along the way. I wonder sometimes if they didn't feel that this case could be swept under the rug in fairly short order without ever admitting that a young tourist had been the victim of calculated advantage taken by a few of the Island's common predators.

Either way, I just cannot believe that at this late stage, they still don't "get it". The only way to resolve this case is to resolve it. Bad things happen in the US too, but when they do, our system addresses it with forthrightness and honesty. Before anyone points out anecdotal instances to the contrary, let me remind that the fact that those instances are known, is due to the scrutiny that exposed it.

All they had to do was to pursue the truth and evidence vigorously, and follow the path it laid out, regardless where it led. Today, that would involve much more, and I think you'd have to begin with untangling what has purposefully been hidden and asking WHY?

Good post CBB.

I also think it was just a stupid miscalculation. Think it's become obvious that the island is run by a 'thug' government and a 'thug' attitude about internal affairs. Don't think anyone involved down there on that dirty little island had any inkling of world affairs.

[quote="Lala'sMom"

This was a smart kid, but had no way of making any contacts with anyone so I wonder had my own kid not been so nosy where would he be now?Nobody at the school even noticed this boy and his troubles.  He was 15 at the time too. Just pondering everyone's thoughts on the other boy about why some do things and others don't.[/quote]

Lala's you obviously have an amazing daughter wiht a beautiful heart.

Well DUH Rudy...no kidding!!! :roll:

Oh please NO!!!!  :shock:   but there surely is something in the culture of Aruba that does :(

I'm off work today (MLK) and watching Cold Case Files. An investigator was just talking about a suspect he interviewed. He said when they brought the guy in for questioning, the suspect started sweating profusely and that let him know they were on to something.

Sound like someone else we know? :evil:

Yep, kinda obvious to anyone who wants to look objectively, but then along come all the excuse makers with every reason under the sun why it isn't obvious.

Well, if they went for the brass ring in hopes they would admit nothing in order to protect the tourism industry, the persistance of that attitude is mindboggling, but I've come to believe it's feasible.

Now, more than ever, they won't come clean, because now they would not only have to admit that an innocent tourist was murdered (either by comission or omission), but that the entire legal system lined up to hide it.

Eventually, Aruba could enjoy a thriving tourist trade again, if they would just clean their own house, and live in a self imposed glass house to do it! Invite the scrutiny required to expose it all, including the cover-up, bring those who participated in Natalee's demise, and in the corruption, to justice and say to the world, "Look! We had terrible problems, and you can rest assured that we have addressed them. See for yourself."

There would be an initial reaction, and then it would slowly come back. Now, tourism is suffering a slow death. I'm waiting for the movie, and mark my words, there will be one. I'm waiting for Beth's book, and mark my words, there will be one. With each wave of renewed interest the corruption is brought to light and the fact that it STILL exists is enblazened all over again to more and more folks with discresionary vacation dollers to spend. The difference between "Wow, look what Aruba was", and "Wow, look what Aruba is." is immeasurable, and it's their choice. It always has been.

Scared Monkeys should feel good about this site. This forum has held the truth intact and managed to maintain an archive of it. This group has been the impetus and instrument to keep Natalee living and a core interest going when news is so lacking. Other than Beth's efforts, I don't know of a more effective means to be available to accomplish a push when there's any opportunity to further the resolution that is so late in coming. You've done "good",  monkeys, and I see no signs of fatigue.  :wink:

Kinda obvious that the arubans/aruba is paying the price for their leaders decisions.

Doubt it tourism is gonna die completely, but they are paying a price.

It appears that the price is still acceptable to the folks in charge.

Someone needs to eliminate the folks in charge.

It is, Carnut, and I wish it weren't, but don't you think the impact of a movie would be HUGE? I do, I really do, if it's done well, and I hope it's going to be done well!

I don't have any indication in reality that a movie's in the making or anything, but I'd lay money that one will be made. I hope/wish Beth would compile all she has and start shopping it. She'd come under tremendous criticism, but it's the best thing on earth she could do, aside from what she is doing. A civil suit filed in Aruba, against ALE would stir the pot as well.  :wink:

Yes, a movie would help just that much more to extract more of a price from aruba/arubans.

Essentially that's been about the only choice from the start is to extract enough of a price that someone will finally realize it's too much of a price and get something done.

Guess we are still waiting till Tuesday to hear anymore on the LA case.

If the case gets to continue in the courts, it's gonna do wonders for aruban publicity and the tourism price they will continue paying.

Exactly. Extraction is connected to exposure, because the facts are damning in themselves. There's no need to skew them, only to examine them and turn a light to shine on them. There are many more tsunami waves ahead for Aruba, and they continue to welcome them ashore by thier ill conceived notion of "protecting" themselves.

Oh gee, guess the CRS is really getting this morning, don't remember hearing about Fawley getting a plea deal to 30yrs in prison.

Looks like Erin Moriarity needs to interview JVDS.

I have several friends who were on a Christmas cruise that stopped at Aruba....they as well as m any others did not even get off the ship.....because of Natalee.  There was also a group of perhaps 20-25 people who got off and went to a beach area and left notes, trinkets, and some flowers evidently snuck off the ship :wink:  ....in a tribute to Natalee. My friend wasn't sure who the people were or exactly where they went on the beach....but said had she known their plans before hand  she would have asked to join them. The people didn't stay on the island....but returned to the ship. My friend told me there was a lot of talk on the ship about Natalee and how Aruba has treated her murder. People are not going to forget~!

 :lol:  :lol:

UPS just brought my mug. :)
I got the correct one.. so if anyone sees Sue.. let her know I dont have hers.
Klaas. nice job. The photo is really clear.. and I was suprised at how big the mug is.. LOL
  Hubby was howlin.. now hes calling me typo queen.  :wink:

The mugs are great, aren't they, Angie? I was very impressed with mine. :D

You will forever be known as the "typo queen", lol  :lol:  Glad you got the correct mug!

There's no question in my mind that Aruban officials thought this case and the family could be brushed off in short order.   Jug and Beth go to the police station the morning after meeting the van der Sloots and there is talk of frosted flakes and putas.  Her statement is changed.  Dave appears and no one knows anything but want to know how much money he has.  I think their treatment was deliberate.  To intimidate, to send a message.  But Beth and Dave had the media there with them for support.  They have a strong faith in God and a family support system that most only wish for.  Long after the frequent news reports subsided and Aruba claimed there was no evidence, long after Aruba announced that Skeeters and Dr. Phil were frauds and Joe Tacopina threatened everyone with a lawsuit, the way Aruba treated this family and handled this case is haunting them.  They couldn't sweep it under the carpet.  They have to address the problem cause people like Jensen, DeVries, Dr. Phil, Beth, Dave, Dana, Red and the Monkeys took their brooms away.   :)   And I want to tip my hat to my friends and Holloway-Twitty supporters who have stuck it out on the AOL demolition derby of a board, defending the family and getting the truth out there amidst the constant barrage of b.s.

  ROFL   Hubby didnt know that.. but he does now..

BT.. its a really nice mug.. can fit lotsa hot chocolate in that sucker~!
With mini marshmallows of course..  :)

I like the size of the Mug too! It's my new favorite cup to grab! I've got three of them, and am waiting for the "Holiday Set" to come out!  :wink:

hmmmmmm I would have sworn that would have gotten a rise out of Klaas, but she's not biting, is she!?  :lol:

Humm, a rise? What do you know that I don't know?

Sorry, surfing the net  :wink:  :lol:

Are you crazy girl!  :shock:  Holiday set?  :shock:

Good morning monkeys.
Have been lurking and reading.  Have some replies but the monkeys have left.  Will enter anyway and maybe they will read later.

Lala's  How proud you must be of your daughter.  She is destined for great things with that interest in and compassion for others.

Nut44x4 I read with great interest your post about the "Haunting Evidence" show.  I had not heard of it before and I am now searching my cable TV channels to see if or when it will show here.

Carnut I live on an island state and do not find it has any effect on us, at least to that extent!  I also realise your comments are written tongue-in-cheek but it is difficult to convey humour in the written word.  I know this well as my sister is always in a huff with me about something I have written that was meant to be funny and she has taken it literally.

cbb A book or a movie faithfully based on Beth's notes would be fantastic.  I am sure we will see both as soon as all legal avenues are exhausted as her notes would be the main evidence in any court action.

klaas  Is it possible to copy a previous post I made here over to an existing topic in the lounge?  But I am such a computer klutz it may be quicker for me to retype the post over there!!!

Canadian MonkeysIs there a monkey that lives anywhere near Lloydminster.  I have been trying to contact a penfriend from eons ago and need to check out some local news.

Back to working and lurking.  Will check back in later again

YEAH! See?

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/SanStPat.gif)

IT'S SKEEEERY, KLAAS!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Something has GOT to happen in this case soon or some monkey's gonna have to STOP ME, PLEASE!!!!    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Tibrogargan - To copy text, all you have to do is highlight it, right mouse click and COPY.  Then go to the thread you want to post, open a window (reply) to make a post and right mouse click PASTE.

I had a feeling that's where you were heading ~ hilarious ~ let's see what do we have after St. Patrick's Day....Easter.....Mother's Day....Memorial Day.....Father's Day....July 4......the list goes on!  You have lots of work ahead of you  :shock:  :lol:  :wink:

ROFLMAO  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

STOP!  :lol:

Klaas :  maybe the best way for monkeys to be sure of getting their own mug is to order the full set ?

  LOL  CBB.. :)

I can't do Mother's and Father's Day. I go out of my way to minimize those Holidays, but between Easter, Valentine's Day,4th of July, Halloween, and Christmas, ( maybe New Year's) we could choose our favorite 4 and have a Holiday Set of Mugs for one low price!  :wink:

Maybe the Christmas one could be RED, the Halloween one ORANGE, the Easter one, YELLOW, etc, etc.......

Thanks Klaas - will try later in day when I am thinking more clearly.

Shep is about to have something on kidnapped boys soon.  May only be a recap though

ROFL CBB..   Wait til SAN sees that....

GOOD ONE, Tibro! Or we could be REAL familiar with another monkey!  :lol:

Laughing are ya' Angie? I'm just waiting for a "clean" pic of you!  :lol:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/KlaasShamrock.gif)

We would qualify for family discount rates then ??   :lol:  :lol:

AHAAAAH!!!!

I LOVE IT!!!!

I suspected you were addicted all along!  :wink:

HEY!? How'd you DO that! :?:   :shock:
I don't know how to do that!

That certainly does not look like a strawberry to me  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

UH-HUH!
 Tibro you got a buy for Valentine's Day 'cause you had just been through the trauma of getting an avatar at all, but expect to be one of the monkeys at the "Wearing Of The Green!"!  :wink:

You know when you open an animation in Image Ready and try to paste something on a frame but it copies it to all frames?  If you add a frame and paste it on the new added frame it only copies to that one.  Then you can delete the extra frame.  So, I only copied my avatar to a couple of frames.

Yeah, Klaas, I was just thinking about that, and thought that was probably how. At first, I thought you had skewed your pic, which is possible, but beyond me, to turn with the shamrock.
I'm thinking about getting a "PHOTOSHOP FOR DUMMIES", but the one I picked up and browsed through at Office Depot was WAY over my head!  :lol:  SAD but TRUE!

I might be up to it by then   :lol:   And with all my English, Scottish and IRISH ancestry I just couldn't say no.   Orange and green go well together too.

 

RoFL  Are there nekky pics of me posted on the net??  :shock:

 :shock:  :shock: I wouldn't know Angie! I don't visit those sites!  :lol:

Good evening monkeys. Do we have any news?  

I found Sue's mug!  It arrived by UPS today!  How funny is that?  :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Next holiday I will celebrate is the 4th of July.

Did someone mention holiday set?   :lol:

Hi Monkeys, doing some catch up here. Crioyo might be in a sarcastic mode, but I think we all realize that there is more crime when income is reduced, jobs lost, etc. - an immediate aftermath.

Cause - Effect.

Long term aftermath - Maybe the residents will get ANGRY at the people who caused this. Not Natalee Holloway, not her family, but their officials and business community.

I wanna St. Patrick's avatar. (http://the-jurybox.com/TJB/Smileys/default/6.gif)

My ancestors had a castle in the 1500's in County Clare Ireland.  :)

 LOL  Me either.. well cept for that bangbus thingy before when it was brought up.  YIKES  :shock:

 

Aweeeeeeeee... I was almost afraid to open the box.. I thought Hmm wonder whos mug I have..LOL  I was happy to see it was mine..lol

I see old Dirty Hand might finally get it.  Nah!  Not in this lifetime, it would never be Aruba's fault, just us mean old Americans.  The ones that just want Natalee and her family to find justice.  Island sinking fast...going down, down, gone.  Pretty soon we can all pool our money and buy the island for a song.

Good evening all you marvelous monkeys.  I am so happy to hear that even ARuba is admitting that their tourism is tanking b/c of the Natalee Holloway case.  Now they have to realize it is their own fault for mishandling the case, and not Beth & Dave's fault.

Yeah! See, Lala's! I think Tibro's tickeling a Leprachaun!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/TibroStPat.gif)

 :shock:  :shock:  :lol:

Hi Angie!  What nekky pictures?

CBB

That is hilarious!!!!!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Hi BT  -  CBB is already on the job with those.    My ancestors escaped to Northern Ireland hundred of years ago when they hunted all the protestants out of Scotland.  Something about  inheriting  Shanes Castle in Northern Ireland but would inherit a huge debt also so not going into that one.   :lol:  :lol:

well - is that one fit for children to view???   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Yeah, Angie, What nekky pictures?

Well, my ancestors supposedly lived at Ballygriffy and had a castle there. After the castle fell, my dad swears they all became horse thieves.  :lol:

Gee, I trace my ancestors back to Nashville and Maryland, wonder if they were all Country music singers and Politicians?

Hi Lala's :  Did you think there was any credence in one monkey's theory (IBE ??) that Dirty Hand/dirty hand was Shango's way of differentiating between two persons.  
If so I have the theory that "Mary"  and "Mary who was not a virgin" are two different people.  My thoughts are : Mary is Natalee.
Mary who was not a virgin is Guido as I believe they sometimes call gays Mary.   Have to go back and read it all again and substitute Guido in appropriate places and see what it sounds like.  Would make sense where Shango says Mary rolled because that would be Guido dealing at a illegal casino or game.

Or maybe country politicians?

Boy! I just love this kind of weather, in the teens' outside and the 4 to 5" of snow is frozen solid with an icecap.

Driving on the snowpacked streets is great, no slush messing things up.

Backed my PT out of the garage onto the street and the snow was packed so hard on my drive that there were no tire inpressions in the snow.

Anyhow, sure didn't know I ordered Extra Salty Fries, CRS is really getting to me.

Yes and they worry about convict ancestry here  :lol:  :lol:   Most of the convicts were sent out here on trumped up charges just to get the people  who were skilled in trades etc. to help build up the colony.  Women arrested and sent out here for obvious reasons.

Always wondered about that, were the folks just incarcerated when they got there, or were they let loose to try and create a new life there?

Or did they serve their time and then get released and just stay there?

I would imagine along with the convicts showing up there were plenty of legitimage colonizers showing up looking for a new life as well.

Who handled dividing up the interior?

Well, Georgia (where some of my ancestors ended up) was a penal colony as well. I think they were mostly debtors, and it doesn't seem that the family luck has changed much.  :lol:  :lol:

Klaas  -  klaas  -  klaas

It worked !  I did it !   I did it !

Now I am really swinging through the branches this morning.  On a roll!!

Thank you for your help.       Learning - learning - learning  :wink:  :wink:

Near as I can tell I hold to title to being the first and only college graduate on either side of my clan.

Hi Monkeys,
So mad I could spit except for getting put in Lalas book. I had a post almost finished and lost my connection. On Hubbys computer since mine crashed and I think his modem is going. I was being stupid and used AoL as my browser. So when I was shut off I also lost my post.

I am doing a survey here. My mug came by way of Louisville, KY. It was the right one. What I am wondering is where the wrong ones came from?
Could all the wrong ones be from  a different place?

I knew you could!  :lol:

Tibro
Many of the Code Talkers have long asserted that Mary was indeed Natalee.  I am not so sure. If the Mary reference concerns Natalee, the "was not a virgin" statement could be taken to mean that she had participated in other activity before the kidnapping and assault byt the 3 perps.  I am not saying that is the case, just that I have read it as an interpretation.  I have long wondered myself if Mary is actually referring to Natalee.  It could esaily be what you think.  Although, I do believe that the "rolled" reference is an indication of being given ecstacy or the term for a drug induced state as a result of a Rave party.  I tend to forget all this stuff from time to time, but I am certain there is a monkey out there that remembers for certain. If I think more on this, I will remember what was discussed concerning the references.

Think so?

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/BTSTPAT.gif)

 :lol:  :lol:
I gotta run!

No they were picked up on the streets or dragged out of the houses and thrown in goal, tried and convicted then loaded on ships, chained below decks in deplorable conditions and if they survived were incarcerated here and sent out in working gangs to build roads and buildings etc.  Once they had served their term or impressed someone in authority with their skills they were pardoned and nearly always given grant of land so they stayed here.   Would not have been able to afford their passage back for many years anyway.   Yes once colony first established many many free settlers came by sailing ships looking for a new better life and also employed a lot of the convicts similar to your slaves.

States governed separately until Federation in 1901 when we became one big happy country.

Mine(Sue's) shipped from Louisville, KY too.

CBB!!!!!

I love it!!!!! :lol:  :lol:

Ok , That blew that theory. I thought maybe they were from CA. And it was non English speaking.

Sam - permission to spit.  Just test the wind direction first - OK?

Ah, I think Lala's in charge of spitting permissions.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/BTGreenHat.gif)

I was on earlier today just reading. Came across this post from BT. I loved it BT.
"Seriously, I have made it one of the goals in my life to get along with as many people as I can, and I do genuinely like most people. When I "look" at Carnut, I do truly see someone who is much softer inside than what is reflected in the things he says. Maybe I just see the world through rose-colored glasses after all."

We could all use some rose colored glasses.

I too think Carnut is not as jaded as he leads us to believe. He just has a different way of expressing himself. JMHO

LOL CBB...that ain't what it looks like to me  :shock:

Finally got mug #1 today from Indy Dan!! Way to go, my man!!!!!!

Nice big mug and heavy enough to use as a weapon should the need arise... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

There are 20 d**m frames in that BT and each one has to be "erased" from the trash ( white stuff) and I don't have time right now, so don't save it, yet!  :wink:  It'll be done before St Patt's day!

BYE!

OMG! You go girl! LOVE IT!!!

Klaas! I love it! I'm sitting here laughing out loud.

I'm gonna save them both, and I'm pretty sure people are going to see them later.  :wink:  :D

 1) Mishy - Have already made a comment on that on previous page  :!:

 2) When mobile phones first came out and were those heavy "bricks" our boss made it possible for all women on staff to get one through the company as they were impossible to get normal retail for ages.  He said if we didn't have a chance to phone for help we could hit attacker over the head with them.

Hi Mishy - they told me last week it would be delivered on Monday but then today I wondered since it was a Federal holiday. Wasn't sure if UPS worked or not - guess they do.

Hi, everyone!  Haven't been by in a while and I wondered how you all are.  Good to see you are all keeping the faith. I still think about Natalee and her families often.  

Who

Hi Who!  How are you?

How bizarre.  I forgot my quote was still MLK.

Good, but busy.  Strep si rampant here and my 8 year old finally brought it home to share.  Luckily a little antibiotics fixed her right up and we've been able to spend the last two 75* days at the beach.  Tonight we had a fire here in our fire pit and roasted marshmallows for s'mores.  So fun!

How are you?

Night Monkeys,

It looks like Aol is not going to let me stay on. Either that or my modem. I have to copy each post in case I am shut off before my post goes through.

Nice of you Tibro to give me permission to spit but like Carnut says Lalas is in charge of that permission. LOL

Keep the faith. There will someday be justice for Natalee.

Sam

Spit??? Who's spitting?  I am not mopping tonight, I am too tired.  Where's Old Fart, he has all the cleaning implements. :roll:

Sam - sorry to hear you are having problems.  Make sure you clear your cookies and check that box when you log on to stay logged in.

Hiya, Who and all the monkeys!

Any word on either civil case?

What a long day today.... blah...

The good news is that Mom was discharged from the hospital today! Whoohoo! We are having some difficulty with the "appliance" but she is surely glad to be home again. My younger sister, my neice and I all three have done various things today to get Mom comfy at home. All three of us had training on changing her appliance. After work, I went back to Meijer for the second time in as many days to get stuff for her that I had forgotten. Then to her place to deliver the stuff. My sister and I together took forever to change the appliance. We'll get the hang of it eventually. Mom seems to want to continue the trend of eating healthier food and smaller quantities than she had previously. Hope she keeps that up to gradually lose more weight.

Night Sam. hope your computer feels better soon.  WHEW!  Glad she didn't spit in here, such a mess. I left my boots in the other cage.  :roll:

Justins
That is wonderful news!  So glad she's home, it will take time to adjust to all things new, but I am certain you will get the hang of it.  Did you give her a big monkey hug for us?

My biggest worry was the wind direction rather than the permission  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Just a kiss on the cheek. A little afraid to hug her yet, at least until the darn ostomy bag will adhere properly to her skin. Don't any "bubbles burst", so to speak! LOL! I used the "sh!tay" word while trying to cut the hole in the darn thing. Mom just said "Yes, it is." She has a sense of humor.  :wink:

Oh, there have been times when the spit was deep in here...or maybe it was something else...  Anyway, since BOC doesn't sweep or mop anymore, I am having to do all the cleaning plus keep everyone in line. :roll:  :roll:

Justins
Those bags are such a pain.  Sometimes they won't stick and it leaks.  All things in perspective...the bag is better than the way things could have been.  It will be second nature to you and Mom real soon.  Hang in there!

Maybe I could sweep sometimes as I am often here reading when all the monkeys are asleep in their  trees.  Think you have enough to do keeping them in line as they can be rowdy at times   :wink:  :wink:

Yup, it will get better. They had her on an antibiotic, which has killed off her digestive flora. That's the problem. She does not like yogurt but has agreed to eat it to restore the balance. Also got her some bran muffins, bananas, and apple sauce. She also now has 10 new white bath towels, 50 new white wash cloths, a box of Biz and a bottle each of Clorox and Downy. Everyone kept asking why I got her all the white towels. They know now.   :P

OT but I just found out that a good friend of mines ex husband committed sucide this week end.  She is distraight and they have a daughter who is 11.  A difficult time for them.  Please remember them in your prayers.

Tibro
The cleaning duties are yours.  I just love volunteers!  :lol:

I am working on some Shango, don't go anywhere.

Tibro, sometimes it really does matter which way the wind blows :lol:  :lol:

Justins, so glad mom is back home...but don't get the white towels... :oops:

Casa, really glad to see you, but so sorry about the news you bring. Will definitely keep that family in my prayers...What a hard go  :cry:

Yes,we suomi drink the most coffee and kill our selves the most.cat(Kissa)

Absolutely!  Maybe we could add them to our prayer thread.  Some of the monkeys may not see this post.  That is so sad.

Casa - so sorry.  :cry:

I will keep them in my prayers.

Thank you Mishy I knew my Monkey friends would be supportive of ones who are hurting!

Well, stop that! At least the killing part. :wink:

Thank you Lala's and BT!  Please add them to the prayer thread.  I don't know how.

Justins
I have seen frozen yogurt with active cultures, I bet she would like that better.  I can't remember what brand though.  I bought it for my Mom years ago when she would take antibiotics often.

I won't,I just know the stats.Like the leading cause of drowning is with your zipper down at midsummer.Cat

Hi Justinsmama.  Can you get a Lactobacillus Acidophilus powder to mix in water or fruit juice?  Better than tablets or capsules.  Chemists should keep in a refrigerator or may find at health food stores. Is slightly sweet and a weak milky appearance in water.  Is excellent for this sort of thing and even used for babies with thrush.  Have to keep refrigerated and never use a wet spoon as it activates as soon as it gets wet.  My naturopath put me onto it for yeast infection and even made into thick paste to spread on affected areas.  Works like magic on infections etc.
Glad you mother is well enough to be home.  Hugs from Australia for you both.

oh,you mean the Oglethorpe society in Ga.The Brown were good debtors and shine makers.Oh I am part Brown.Cat

Justins mama,

I am still on. LOL Maybe they got tired of shutting me off.

Justinsmama this is just a thought. Taught to me many years ago by a friend. A diaper pail with 20 mule team Borax.  Of course rinse the dirty in the toilet bowl before placing them in the borax water. Remember I am from the generation who only used cloth diapers.

I always just dumped them in the washing machine and ran them through the rinse, spin, cycle before I washed them for real.

Justins mama,

If your mom doesn't like yogurt - why not just buy her some probiotics in powder form that she can sprinkle in food and not even taste?  I actually learned this because I am now feeding them to my elderly dogs (don't laugh) to help with digestion.. but I've read that it any human who has taken antibiotics should use probiotics afterwards to help get back to normal.

You can buy them at GNC and those type places.  

Gotta go for now but wanted to throw this out there.

Hugs to all monks and those in need.... we'll add to our prayers.

Beans

Casa~ How tragic for your friend and her daughter.

White towels can be bleached without losing their color. Hence, I chose white linens.

 :lol:  :lol:

Done!

Justins,

You can also buy acidophilus pills at the pharmacy. My dad was having the same problem after being treated for his pneumonia, and the doctor told him to buy the pills. They're just something you get off the shelf.

I want to thank CBB and Klass for the great Avatars.I have never let a woman or man put a collar on me ,but I am proud to wear this one.Night.Cat

Casa - so sorry to hear that.  I'll keep her and her daughter in my prayers.

 :lol: Cat - you are so funny

Yay cat!

Mr. Oglethorpe was certainly a compassionate gentleman, whose name is well-known throughout Georgia. In fact, I work in a little town called Ft. Oglethorpe now. I think there used to be a fort - but just a little town now.

Thank you SO much!  I am very sad tonight and also grateful for the family and friends that I have!  No matter how bad we think our lives are there are people who are suffering so much more than us!  I can't afford to buy my youngest a car and her dad is not cooperating and getting her one.  But I have my children and they have their dad even if he is not doing what he should do.

BT~ Thanx for the tip. I'll get some for her tomorrow.

Thank you much, klaasend!  The support of my friends means so much to me!

Cat you are too silly  :lol:

Justins, makes sense...how did I not figure that one out?  :oops:  :oops:  :oops: I had figured it out from Sam's post though  :wink:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

To me this riddle is speaking of Natalee.  It is used in the context that Mary didn't know what was happening to her because either she was unconscious or dead at the time.  Then in the next line it refers to the men who play dice and roll.  

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

I still think this is a reference to Natalee, but I could be wrong.  To me it's saying that Mary entered the Maze (we have debated the definition of Maze often) and something happened to her.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary Rolled
And the lions played

This is the part of the riddle that most speculate that Joran actually left Natalee at another location.  Could have been Guido's place as Robots thinks.  Could have been at the Lion's Den.  We are still guessing about this one.

Well, I guess I just closed the forum down...sorry. I can't resist a good tango. :lol:

No you didn't!  I was on the phone.  Keep Shangoing!

I love to watch you tango, sistah!

Good night monkeys....putting a bookmark here.... :D

See you in the morning.....Mere

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking

This has to be a reference to Natalee.  Since Shango is alluding to the underbelly of Aruba with it's porn and gambling.  The Dirty Hand reference does claim that he's afraid of the Arawak Nation.  It is a proper noun here.  Any thoughts?  Why would either van der Straaten or Rudy Croes be afraid of the Arawaks?

Rudy Croes is an Arawak

Night Mere, sweet dreams.

Mishy, I am so glad to know someone read my post..

LaLa:  Recently I came across a tourist's photo...

It showed a large buoy in the water near the Radisson & Wyndham....
Maybe near that Palm? pier. I'll look tomorrow.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Remember that photo of the "Pair a Dice" boat from Aruba?
Wonder where it was docked...Maybe Hotshot would know.

So do that leave van der Straaten?

We studied that "bouy" about a year ago, I have the photos somewhere and will find them.  I think it's not a bouy but a platform.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable
DirtyHand is well known
there will be a sacrifice
the gods have been talking
the fires have been lit
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon
I must go feed the messengers

Clearly this particular Dirty Hand is someone in power.  Does anyone else think what I think or am I just hanging here on a limb?  :roll:

Oh yes, I do remember that boat.  Where did it dock?  Good question.

Nite, LaLa.............

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Yes I think Joran left Natalee there (wherever it was) and was paid off hence the cash Paulus had to bank from his non existent winnings.
Guido's place could be Lions Den - lives with father only so no mother to keep an eye on things.  Like Anita was absent so they had a free rein.

Have to go out shortly but will ponder some more and will check back in about an hour.

But I'm not sleepy yet?  Why am I going to bed?  :shock:

I think you're right, Klaas. Some kind of diving platform?

Dear Monkey Friends: Keep up the Good Work

I have just posted in the Lounge some questions about a Marine friend where I live dying, rumored strangled and some threats to me.

Hoping you have the time to look and respond for you have insights that I don't have.

Lala I have a little different view on some of Shango... am here to tango![/b]

I know.  :wink:  I have been waiting for you.

Maybe you're just being sent to your room for a time out.  :lol:

Why could Dirty hand not be one of the casino owners? I know alot of them are Americans but also know Casino operators have long been known to have Mafia ties. But when you are in a foreign country your Mafia ties may not have as much importance.

"There is a boat docked between the Holiday Inn and the Marriott. It is called the Pair of Dice."

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/PairADice.jpg)

Messed up my last reply as some comments through your posting then last comment on bottom in plain text.
Mary played with lions - more like a mouse plays with a cat.
Joran is a big woos and ran alright.
Arawaks (Arubans) leave lions alone as they are in all the powerful positions on the island and control the Arawaks financially.
Van Der S is D/H and is afraid of being identified and thus lose face and position and any future prospects.

Paulus is Dirty Hand.  He wrote the government contracts for Aruba. He would know all the movers and shakers in Aruba.  Paulus could walk in all houses.  He isn't afraid of the Police.  He would be afraid of the Arubans (Arowak Nation) if the corruption & his roll in it was exposed.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
 There is more than one house of music
Me: (casinos or hotels or private homes?)
 the Lamb is a Scapegoat

OK.. my current take on this: Joran is the Scapegoat for his father and/or  other elders  
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
 Mary Rolled
 And the lions played

 If the rumor is true there were elders at the Sloot home the night "something bad happened" for a poker party

Joran give her off, returned to his apt. and others took advantage of her in the home... elders there===big reason for coverup
Or it was at the party home of Lorenzo the only one or one of them?

Van Der S had plenty of power and would not want to lose any of it.
Sacrifice is supposed to be Joran or Kalpoes???
Cowboys did return without any answers.
Preparing sacrifice : setting someone up to appease the cowboys.  May have even been the two security guards.

Thanks Lala :lol: I haven't had someone "wait for me" in a long time :oops:

With what we learn in bits and pieces, I keep rereading Shango with new eyes and thought.

Bottom line... why the big coverup? unless someone lied to those that helped at first and found out later they were in too deep and had to keep the cover up going

or the elders were there when something bad happened in the apt? or?

Guess what?  I don't disagree with any of this. I think you could be right on.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

The elder is PVDS.  I never thought about him being Dirty Hand.  I will have to think on that one.  Just doesn't fit the profile to me.

What a lowlife Paulus is, if he let his son take the rap for him or one of his pig friends.

Paulus IS a lowlife, but he just covering for JVDS.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Now, my dear friend Eleye thought this was MJ.  Since he's been released as a suspect could this be AJ instead?  Not sure about that one, just throwing it out there for thought.

Back to Guido.  Did he work only at the HI casino?  We know he played in the others because it's in some of the statements?  This Guido theory is very intriguing to me.  I still fail to see how exposing Guido as Dirty Hand would bring the houses down.  Maybe someone could enlighten me?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Mary never heard the buoy toll ==? they took her out to sea; she was dead, she couldn't hear the buoy toll

Yes, the dice rolled.... a big ummmm with the boat, Klaas
But I also question where somewhere it is listed in a testimony about Joran being asked to go on a boat that night of his friend and he turned it down to go to C%C

Would someone please help me??? Is it in Shango or where about the aloe and things going on in the center of the island. connected to the vanishing of Natalee?

I saw a newspaper article and something went BINGO in my mind when they mentioned to a connection with a govt. official (retired) and aloe

Was it in posts of Arubagirl? or ? about the aloe"

Wish to do research on that... but need to find ref.

It was 42 degrees in my "tuna can"  :lol: Now the plants are wilting so will have to wait for sunshine tomorrow to tackle that challenge.

Luv ya, IBE

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


How old is Guido?  Wouldn't he be a bit young for this "long time" scenario?

It's not in Shango about the aloe.

Klaas, I'd like to email Lala. Is it possible for you to match us up? I already have Anna's.

IBE
It could be Merian Ernest posts you are thinking about. I will check for you.

Please do.  Do I need to email you Klaas or what?

Don't think Paulus is important enough.  He is really just a big bag of p*** and would collapse if really put under proper pressure.  He is definately one of the elders or lions.  Maybe they went to Guido's from the poker party.
Possibly Guido was given the job of dealing with Natalee after they had had their way hence the heavy battery charge.
Something rotten from the Hague :  Karen Jaansen ???  Has been doing her best to keep all this under wraps.

OK... here goes....

The Mafio, IMO, has very long arms and it doesn't matter what country they wish to do "business" in... business will be done if they think it is needed to be done (read between the lines here, please)

IMO THE DIRTY hand is older, but serveral "dirty hands"... small case letters meaning lots others are in it too.

Yes I agree he is a lowlife.  But his son is the most likely to take the rap because he was the last to be seen with Natalee.  They cannot say it was Paulus because everyone will go down.  So if they promise Paulus that they will get Joran off just let him stay in jail for a few months and he will be free.  They never expected the attention that they got from the murder.  They thought it was going to go away.

Remember Anita's words outside the court house "he was suppose to be safe in here".

Yes she has done a pretty good job of keeping things underwraps.

Wonder how her replacement is going to do?

Tibro
I like your idea about KJ.  Don't know if it fits, but that part of the riddle never made a lot of sense to me other than maybe waiting on results of tests being conducted on evidence and then it coming back as chocolate and cleaning fluid.

KJ brought up the chocolate?

Agreed.  Your take sounds much like the rest of us.  What do you mean it's different than most interpretations?  

Just email me at my yahoo addy and then I will give you my other one. cindoal@yahoo.com

IBE - it was you who said Dirty Hand versue dirty hand!   Go back a couple of pages as I have a theory about Mary and Mary who not a virgin.  Similar idea.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Yes, it would take KJ to put the pressure on them to make them confess...didn't happen...never will.

IBE - email me at smklaasend@hotmail.com

Lala's - I know I have your email addy someplace but it would really help if you would email me too please.  TIA

Carnut is tangoing !!

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians know what happened, but their hands are tied. They do not own the hammer nor the block.
The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.


Could this be KJ?  Is it possible that she is the package from the Hague.  Didn't she take evidence with her back to the Netherlands?  Intriguing.

Wouldn't Van Der Straaten "work" for the judges etc (elders) in the law courts?

I always thought it could have been Van der Straaten regarding the Hague.  I believe he made a trip with Janssen right before he officially retired.  KJ went on vacation and Van der Straaten went on a trip at the same time.

Tibrogargan;  You can try to find your Canadian friend by looking in the online phone book:
http://www.canada411.ca/
Look under the province of Alberta

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock: I need BT's fainting emoticon.

Think I'd refer to as untangoing.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

IMO Shango was posting very fast at times, so I go back and forth thinking.... take the literal translation of capitals and small letters and then I dealve into things like the above quote  the word "for"

Then I think, OK  "for" is used... is this important a "for" rather than "with" but then I think "for" is important for it is used as "has worked for"

Meaning, usually when one writes in this tense it is meaningful for the mind is using these words vs. just "for" or "with"

If I work "for" someone means I am paid by them one way or another IMO It means ??? I am not them but work for them so do we have two seperate enities going on here?

Gads, I am not even sure I am making sense.

At least I am in the cage before everyone goes to bed!  :lol:

Tomorrow I call Direct TV... they are advertising DSL for a 12 month contract for $10 Probably the lesser DSL but sure faster than I am now!  If any of your friends sign up for Direct TV besure to have them list you as the ref. person and you get $50 off your bill.

Does the hammer and block stand for the judges gavel?

Any DSL is better than no DSL.

IBE and Lala's - Please email me and I'll send Lala's IBE's email addy:

smklaasend@hotmail.com

That's what I think it means. It's like one dirty hand doesn't know what the other dirty hand  is doing and thus all the confusion and lack of cooperation. Another possiblity could be that there were so many different judges in the beginning, who saw what evidence and how was it interpreted?  Did one particular judge just look the other way?  :wink:

If you take the Hague to loosely mean Holland you could factor in Anita here as she had to return from there and I have very serious suspicions that she had a lot to do with Natalee's disposal.  Not too long to keep a body on ice until the Wednesday and that way she would know all about the intimate details.  Nasty piece of work   Oh I am repeating myself here !!!

IBE
So if Dirty Hand worked for the elders. Are you saying that the elders paid Dirty Hand? As in paid him off?

The informant is on the line.  The Babylonians (the police?) know what happened, but can't do anything about it.  The judges are owned by (in the pocket of) someone else.

Oh Dango it is the Shango! :!:  :!: BOC on cruise control!!

Thanks Leslie.  There is an entry for same name as man she married.  However big problem is I found an entry on Google-ing for her married name where someone with same name was killed in collision with police car around Oct last year.  But cannot find obituary to make sure same person.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Simian was the first to mention the "boyfriend". I think this is a good question and in light of the Guido theory, it becomes more credible than before.

Klaas, you have mail

See how easy this is.  I don't understand why everyone doesn't tango with me.   The answers lie within Shango and Simian.  That sounds like a line from a movie.  :roll:

DITTO

BOC
Have you stopped sweeping the cage?  I noticed cobwebs in the corners earlier today.  :roll:

BOC

Let's send your Clint Eastwood Monkey to Aruba along with a case of Dial for the dirty hands and Dirty Hand.. opps that's two cases of soap and one huge "don't mess with me Monkey!"

So you think Babylonians is a reference to the ALE?  Are you sure?

I was promoted to head dishwasher and driver! Who knows I might get demoted again! :wink:

Dirty Hands, dirty hands

first: we have found out that corruption is not illegal in Arube

second... my mind can't remember. Need make so tea in my Monkey Christmas stein. Be back in 1+ minute.

I do have the feeling tonight's tango is important

My travel agencies still do not send anyone to Aruba!   :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

BOC  Yippee! But we need a ticket for your Eastwood Monkey.

On the Front Page they have a cartoon where the man is falling off the ladder when removing "Happy" from "One happy island" a few stories ago.

I think the caption should read... "Look out, here comes the Monkey Express!"

Not only did they promise would Joran go free but they would be financially rewarded

IMO the C.Eastwood monkey could get them to talk and tell the truth now... but not physically harm them for justice would be jail, slow and simple.

Ah, which C.Eastwood monkey have you been watching?

BOC
Your promotion was not cleared by me.  I think you are mistaken...pick up that broom!  :roll:

A bit indelicate to write and say "Is that your wife that was killed?"
Not an real uncommon name either.  Don't want to put details here as I would not like my name anywhere either, especially under the circumstances.

Broom?? You know I do not know anything about machinery! :oops:  :P

So you think Babylonians is a reference to the ALE?  Are you sure?[/quote]

In other Caribbean countries Babylonians are the police.

I have borrowed BOC's broom to go to Post Office.  If they take too long I will tell them Shango is waiting and hurry up.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

This is the place where Babalu mentioned Dirty Hand as being the police chief.  If I could find my other version of Shango from the FP that had the entire conversation it would make sense.  I don't have any idea where I put it though.

Also, it is clear that Dirty Hand is very closely connected to PVDS the fallen elder.

I keep forgetting she's in Australia.  I was about to ask her why she's going to the Post Office this late at night.  :lol:

In other Caribbean countries Babylonians are the police.[/quote]

Thanks, that makes a big difference in interpretations.  Eleye thought they were the gamblers.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Do you think this is a reference to ALE?  I can't make that leap yet. Help me out here.

GUIDO gave joran the RIDE HOME  8)

now, why would JORAN say the K2 brothers did ?


GUIDO is a DIRTY HAND  8)

I knew it!  I ran everyone off.   :shock:

Once again...I need you to prove it to me.  I don't mean PROVE as in shadow of doubt proof, just show me how you came to that conclusion.

HUH-UH!  I'm Baaaaack!  :wink:

Trying to catch up........

cause he is a DEALER

he CHEATS the regular customers and helps the CREEPS like JORAN
his hands are FILTHY

cause he cheats

Robots
He isn't the only dealer that cheats.  I still don't see he has the power to pull off a cover up of this magnitude.  But you could be right.

like i said,
there are More than ONE

DIRTY HANDS  8)

Dirty Hand refers several people grouped together

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Yes it is now just after 4 pm daylight saving time  Tues arvo.
Broom returned and parked at cage door for any other volunteers to use  also   :wink:  :wink:

Personally, I think if Guido was the one with all the power to cause such a train wreck he would not be alive today.  He left the island and for a while wasn't even on the radar screen to anyone.  It would have been easy to just get rid of him.  This guy isn't old enough to have that kind of power.  I just don't see it, but as I say I will keep an open mind. Also, why even bring him into this as in arresting him if he is the ONE that can do the harm to everyone?  Doesn't make sense to me.

Now, I know how BOC left in such a hurry all the time.  And I thought he was sweeping with that broom. :roll:

This was posted in Dana's thread dated January 11.  Didn't know if anyone saw it.  

10 Days

Two replies.

I will be dropping the toll free number effective today, I hope this general lack of interest is also not a general lack of interest for the show?

Many dirty hands means many cheating croupiers ??
Guido not cluey enough to have this much power but influential father and also if Joran's boyfriend (eeek) has Joran's family also.
If he was a cheater and it was part of the setup no wonder he wet his pants at the interview at work.  Was it by Posner?

So which dirty hand is Guido?  :shock:

guido gave joran a ride home

i think Natalee was at guido's house

and she was unresponsive


joran went home, guido was with him

they spent the night and the next day hiding the body

I think it means pseudo police like GVC and Shiva of course are the rat finks.

In Posner's office - not sure who was doing the questioning.

If Posner & police were reviewing the tapes of that evening, they could have incidentatly caught the cheating too.

I don't think I saw this thread.  Must go check it out.

i never saw it  :oops:

Trust ye not the NightTime WaterWatchers for they answer to higher powers.

ROBOTS!!   We agree!!   I am sure they were at Guido's house, too.

I noticed he didn't come to the forum after the last show, but thought he might have other commitments.  There was a lot of excitement when he "merged" with Red and yet there are few phone calls or responses to his FP commentaries and show threads.  We listen if we don't have tech problems, but I don't think we've done all we can to support the show and what it could mean to this site and the Monkeys who would like to know more about things AND make a difference.

I still think a lot of it is due to technical difficulties accessing his show.  Plus a lot of people were quite busy before & during the holidays.

Well, Cat claims he saw the cheating on the video.  I asked him but he didn't respond to me.  If Cat saw it you can rest assured that Posner saw it too.  I still don't see Guido as Dirty Hand.  Shango says there have many dirty hands before.  I take that to mean a long line of succession not several Dirty Hands.  I think Shango was posting on the fly and just failed to make Dirty Hand the same one each time.  But I don't know anything about Shango, so I could be wrong here.

It was right durring the holidays and that's why I think his threads were missed.  He posted a thread in the NH forum, the Monkey Lounge and in the Dana forum.

Where did that quots come from?  I have missed that.   Not in my copy of Shango/Simian.    Interesting . . . . . . .

Also in your post above - I would have to go and read that letter from Guido's parents/lawyer united in hatred, but may be it was directed at people like Posner rather than Natalee's folks, and warning them not to take action about the cheating???

Young BAbylonian GVC (some kind of quasi policeman) shiva - indians, K2.

Lala's I agree.  I do believe that Guido and Joran had a scam going though at the Casino.

lets have some cake  :wink:

well...help me out

guido moved....correct ?


how long was his house up for sale ??


or did it go up for sale the minute this NIGHTMARE started

Geez, we are thinking alike on gvc BUT I think Shivas are Indians, equal Kowpox.

I love Dana's show. He does a superb job of making people feel at ease to talk.  My problem is getting the show live.  I have no idea what is being said, and would feel like a fool calling in not knowing what has already been asked or said.  Plus, I don't check out the FP or the Lounge too often, I come to the NH forum.  B/C of that I miss the advance notices of when the show is going to be on and what the topic is.  My bad, but that could also be part of the reason so many are not prepared to listen or have set aside time from their schedules to listen in live.

GUIDO moved, not his parents.  As far as I know the house did not go up for sale.

I thought I saw Guido do some kind of "high sign" with Paulus.  I have mentioned that many times but no one else seems to have seen it and my eyes are bad, so I figured I was nuts, as everyone else terms me.

Yes I understand there is a problem for some people listening live.  The thing is, those are the kind of things that should have been mentioned to Dana in his request about his show.  That's the issue, barely anyone responded to his questions.

I think it became quite obvious that just because things a technically feasible dosen't mean they are ready for primetime.

Just being on the bleeding edge of technology sometimes has it's hitches.

Tyler - I'm not even sure it's Guido or Paulus in that Casino video.  I'm more sure about it being Paulus than I am Guido.

Guido was in the poker room that night dealing cards.  He was not the dealer at the blackjack table.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm thanks

Dana's thread in the Dana forum:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=684

Shivas are Indians and I meant the Kowpukes when I said rat finks.  They look like rats to me.

If you go back to the theory that Babylonians are the Dutch settlers then Young Babylonians are their sons - Joran, Guido, GVC, etc etc

Okay, I just responded to Dana.  I have enjoyed his shows when I can hear them.  

Sunfreak
Are you saying that the babylonians reference is about GVC and not Joran? You guys are confusing me tonight.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Just for reference here.  I still say that Guido was the "boyfriend" and not Dirty Hand.  But as I have said, my Shango is lacking to say the least.

I don't think I answered him in the right thread. Ooops! Should I move it over there?

I have no cohesive take on all of Shango, like most of us don't.  I understand parts of it, but the whole of it is beyond me.  I'm just throwing out ideas.

I think the Sumerians are the courts.  They bring summary (charges) against suspects.

Okay, then perhaps this is a dirty hand who has "worked the elders" for a long time, helping them at the tables, helping by getting women for them.

No, No, No.  I remember you saying that.  I just never saw it.  So I thought I was the one that was nuts.  :lol:

The video is a bit small for me to make out too much detail like that either.
If we could get it on VCR tape and play on a TV set it might be clearer.  Will have to leave it up to the experts I suppose.

I don't think it is clear that Shango said Babalu got the part right about chief of polis.  He just states that Babalu opened a window into Babylonia.

Well, I am even more confused now...you guys have me thinking in all directions again.  Just when I thought I had it all figured out.  :roll:

Yep, this is where we figured Shango was referring to Van der Straaten

What I need is for someone to email me the entire FP posts on Shango and Simian.  With all the other conversations gong on it is much clearer than it is when all you have is Shango and Simian replying to the posts.  I had it at one time and have since lost it in a few computer crashes I have been through.  There was a certain monkey out there (don't remember who, sorry) that provided me with the entire posts and after I spent time reading them with the conversations by the  other posters, it made much more sense to me.

Dana posted the same request in 3 different areas.  I don't think it matters which area you respond in.

Lala's I probably have what you are looking for.  I'll email you what I have.

I am like Sunfreak - just throwing out ideas.  Some of mine are way out (like Anita's involvement) but waiting to see what others think of the ideas.
Guido left the island like he had gone into orbit.  I think Tito was first to mention him.  His parents are separated and his mother lives in Europe as I understand it so he ran home to Mummy.   Are all those twerps Mother's boys ?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Going on the assumption that Babylonians are the ALE, you have Shango saying that the ALE are the ones that picked up Joran and Natalee?  Picked up from where?  Not the beach.

Dirty Hand:  Is it possible it is the malaise toward crime or the willingness and participation in crime that is Dirty Hand, and there have been many dirty hands who participated to make this island a crime-ridden place.

Is it possible that Dirty Hand is a thing and not a person and that dirty hands make it happen.

Thank you.

Lala's - I just emailed you everything I have.  2 Word docs and 1 PP presentation.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders
Babylon knows


Dirty Hand is a person.

You rock!  Did you guys know that Klaas is the best?  Yes she is!

 

I think Shango/Simian posts are like Nostradamus' quatrains.  Not in chronological order so maybe we need to reshuffle them into a more logical order then read them through.

 Klaas  Is that the same as the thread of Shango/Simian postings you have here?  If so I will print out and compare with anything else I can find on the net.  There was one out there which had someone's interpretations as well.   Most of it made sense at the time.

Crime can walk with the elders.

I believe Babylonians are policemen/women because all the Caribbean call them that.  I know that many think Babylonians are the Dutch and maybe they are, because the dutch supposedly are policing the natives.  I think Geoffrey VC is the young Babylonian, not only is he Dutch but he is quasipolice.

It is very confusing to me, b/c it seems that Shango and Simian both use the term Babylonians, but with different meaning.  I doubt we will ever figure out Shango's riddles.  I have tried many times setting the parameters for who the Babylonians, Arawaks & Sumerians are.  But just when I think I am cooking with gas, something Shango said doesn't make sense with my definitions. Arrrghhhhh.

My 2 cents on Dana's show

For 24 yrs. online I have done OK with dial up, but the main reason I wish DSL is for Dana's show and responding faster on this Thread.

In research, my dialup is OK.

Do not wish him or Red or others to get discouraged at this moment... I think it is a slow time because of the holidays and regrouping. Also it used to be shows only on Sunday and now more... this is good but some us get lost in the process because we are doing other things at the moment. Not a gripe or a feel sorry comment, just technology and timing.

Posting this here and then on the Dana Thread.

I sent Lala's a little more than what is here.  One of what I sent Lala's does have interpretations.

IBE! Don't go anywhere!

Makes sense

I can see where you are heading with this and I agree it is feasible.  Something else to store away and look at from another slant.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/HeartIBE.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/HeartIBE.gif

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/IBEval3.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/IBEval3.gif

Will either of these do? I got your post!  :wink:

Time for me to kick off the stilletos and stop doing the tango.

Mr Sandman is calling my name.

G'nite.

Nite Sunfreak!

Night night Sunfreak    Take care

Wasn't he the one that boasted they dress up in police/security uniforms to impress the tourist girls who would feel safer with them thinking they are LE.

Dirty Hand is a person.  :roll:

Good night, Sunfreak.  Hope you have a great day tomorrow.  

Tibro, I think you are right about the "dressing up like policemen... blah, blah, blah..."

Speaking of Blah, where is Widget, where is Blah, where is Gunslinger and where the heck is Hammer?

Not sure about Widget or Blah.  Gunslinger posted once around Christmas time.  Hammer posted once on the front page of SM today so he's still around.  I'm a little worried about Blah.  Widget might be busy with his girls.  I think Gunslinger was just busy with life in general.

Klaas, can you try and contact Blah?

IMO Babylon=corrupt justice system....

Urban Dictionary definitions of Babylon/Babylonian:

1. Babylon     
   Used to indicate a strong and powerful, yet corrupted and immoral place.

2. Babylon     
   The state, the system, particularly when corrupt or authoritarian. Also the police, as they are the agents of the threat of force that the state derives it's power from.

3.babylon     
A term originating from Jamaica to describe the police

4.Babylon     
   The capital of Mesopotamia, one of the world's earliest civilisations. Situated between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers.

5.babylon     
   First of all, you guys are all wrong, babylon does not refer the police. Babylon is a word that jamaicans use to compare their experience of being brought to the americas to the jews being brought to babylon during the babylonian captivity. Babylon refers to the place of captivity as well as the power structure that keeps them there. It can also apply to imperial powers and commercial powers such as corporations and governments.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVKiEDs5xRw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwYimVPKLpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnqGyzWPpp4

Will have to log out for now - DH knocks off work soon and he will expect a meal when he gets home I suppose  :lol:

Will be back later to do my sweeping out for Lalas..

Be good monkeys

I'll see if Mrs. Red can.  I usually leave that stuff up to her.  I'm not even sure if I have Blah's email addy but I'll check.

Babylonians speak in many tongues, "babble."

Later Tibro - I'll won't be around when you get back, will probably be sleeping, lol  :lol:

The very idea of him expecting a meal.  Klaas' husband is like that too. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Trying hard to catch up here

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
 DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left
[/b]Lala'sMom wrote:[/b]
 Going on the assumption that Babylonians are the ALE, you have Shango saying that the ALE are the ones that picked up Joran and Natalee? Picked up from where? Not the beach.


SunFreak2 said
It is very confusing to me, b/c it seems that Shango and Simian both use the term Babylonians, but with different meaning. I doubt we will ever figure out Shango's riddles. I have tried many times setting the parameters for who the Babylonians, Arawaks & Sumerians are. But just when I think I am cooking with gas, something Shango said doesn't make sense with my definitions. Arrrghhhhh.

Me: See I think it's used with the same meaning at times and then seperate at others

here's one of those A=B=C things I used to hate in school:
Let's assume that "babylonians" are the Dutch.
OK some kind of Dutch provide escort after the K2 (Shivas) brothers leave
So who is Dutch... not all the ALE but some of the ALE including the godfather of Joran who as the Police Chief but also
Joran, Paulus are Dutch
Lorenzo is Dutch
The owner of the Visability Team is Dutch and was wasn't his son one of the suspects? and when you look at the Visability Team picture of the adults they look mostly all Dutch. They were the eyes and ears on the beach at night. Also, I think, this company ran the camera in the hotels. Also, some of the ALE were also on the Visability Team.

Also:
Remember the cartoon that first came out and said Natalee had 3 days to live ie: was marked 3 days before she disappeared? In that cartoon it showed Visability all black clothing, in their hooded sweatshirts in the background at the beach with someone not in sweatshirt headed clothing, plus there was also someone watching from a window in the hotel.

I looked for that cartoon, but can't find it. Only found one similar with no one in the hotel window observing what was going on.

PS.. question: what was the name of the owner of the Visability Team and what is the name of the son who ran with Joran?

Sorry can't use cut and paste and the quotes factor in this software (Safari) so have to hand code it and am lazy at the moment :lol: [/b]

With the dictionary listings here, I am going to have to rethink.

CBB... I love it![/b]

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/cartoonnatalee.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/cromvoirtdad.jpg)

Son - Geoffrey van Cromvoirt = GVC

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/cromvoirt1.jpg)

IBE
That cartoon is here somewhere.  Klaas will know.  If not I can find it somewhere I think.

Also the Babylonians are a reference to The Dutch that have the power on the island.  Id you notice in Shango the Babylonians don't care what happens to Aruba.  That is not their problem.  We have seen this played out in front of our eyes.  The Arawaks are the native arubans that are so dependent upon the Americans(cowboys) for their livelihood.

Shango in his writing has various ways of spelling/writing Dirty hand. I don't think this was done in an arbitrary way, but rather to signify different Dirty Hands .

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall
Teepees and the house of Babylon
If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand.
No Wampum, Many Moons.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians
Every fort has bad cowboys
If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick
Arawaks and cowboys working well
Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand
But babylonians live in teepees too
If the house of babylon is to remain erect,
it must protect the babylonians who have
lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.
babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer
teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks too
the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys
cowboys will leave without loot
Light the fires!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden
Babylon scared of DirtyHand
Arawaks scared of DirtyHand
If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy
If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame.
The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys.
They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe!
He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…

and on and on........

Lala's - did you get my email and did it help?

I think a question nobody has asked is...what is Shango?  Dutch? Aruban? Any ideas?   If nobody told you who most people think is Shango, who would you choose him to be?  Any guesses?

I believe Shango is Aruban.

I am sorry, I forgot to tell you.  Yes, thank you so much.

 I am still looking for a copy of the parts where Shango is interacting with the other posters.  I am so mad at myself for losing them.  It had Shango and Simian and each individual poster's response.  It made me change my entire thoughts on Shango after I read it. Everything just became much clearer.  I will try to find it.  

I especially am enjoying the last thing you sent me.  It is very, ver;y interesting.  Did you do that?  If not, do you know who did?

Yep, that was me  :wink:  I did that back in October 2005.

I don't know who Shango is. If someone told me I'm not sure I would believe them..... :wink:

Was Shango the French one or was Simian? I think I recal Shango making "fun" of Simians for being French? ...does anyone else recall that?
Shango literate, articulate, educated, obvious inside knowledge/understanding of the underbelly of Aruba and ALE IMO. Closer to the inside that Simian.......Merian Ernest a spinoff and someone i never read......

Klass
After all this time would you change anything in it?  Do you still believe it to be the way you presented it?

Lala's I'm not sure.  I haven't looked at that entire document in a long time.  I'll go over it in the next couple days and let you know.

TX Lala's I thought I remembered that.......Not always sure, the old memory ain't what it used to be....... :wink:

Nite Klaas

Time for me to hug Nemo and get to bed.  All this dancing has worn me out. I think I outlasted everyone else.  Does that mean I get the prize?  I bet the Shango haters will be disappointed to read the overnight stuff.  :lol:  :lol:

HEHE Nite, I'm turning in too........thanks for the Shango chat, love it!

Do you think Shango was Aruban by way of Holland and had sworn some kind of allegiance to Aruba, and the Frenchmen who are not held in high esteem by the Dutch as Dilbart was so quick to point out was Simian a/k/a our friend Tito and Shango was another of our posters.

Carnut
I'm reading past pages. What is "CRS"? Thanks

Klaas, isn't there another version of this cartoon that showed more hotel windows and someone in the window?

I have had too many hard disk drive crashes lately to every dig it up here.

Will all the archives before the first crash be online again?

CBB oh how cute! I just switched from browsers again, Safari into Netscape and see that the avatars are animated.

Odd, just looked at my recent posts and the are all an hour apart. Gosh the Shango tango has turned me into a clock!

Good morning all... I will be alseep when you read this

Ssssshhhh -  all the monkeys are asleep.
I am sweeping, mopping and dusting.  Trying not to make much noise so I do not wake any monkeys.
Hope you all enjoy the clean cage tomorrow.  Please don't mess it up before I get back.
 8)  8)

Can someone translate this, or am I too late?  It was Diario

APELACION DI O.M CONTRA PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT A TUMA LUGAR AYERA

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Dialuna mainta a tuma lugar e caso cu Ministerio Publico a entama contra Paul van der Sloot.
Algun tempo pasa van der Sloot a entama un caso di daño y perhuicio, pa e daño cu el a sufri entre otro pa loke ta e puesto di huez cu e lo por a haya.
Huez den e caso ey a otorga un suma di varios mil florin na van der Sloot, kende actualmente ta traha como abogado.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Good morning.

MF is talking on FOB about the new prosecutor being Lugo.  Lugo has a history.  She was the prosecutor involved in the American female "falling" over the railing.


...
Summoned by hotel security, two Aruban police detectives secured the scene and, several hours later, took a statement from Roy. At the time, police were unaware of the 10-minute gap. They had not seen the video. They did not interrogate or detain him. He was agitated, so they sent him to Aruba's only hospital for psychiatric observation.

Roy returned to the hotel the next morning and called Renee's family and made plans to leave the island. It was a day before his scheduled return, and Renee's body was in the morgue.

Through their shock and grief, her brothers begged him to stay with her. He refused, trusting Renee's body to an Aruban mortician, Eugene Maduro, until her brothers could fly down.

''While I was in the [hotel] room he was on the phone with someone,'' Maduro said. ''I heard him say, `What am I going to do now with the damn kids?' That stayed with me. And he leaves without her?''

With little investigation, police allowed Roy to change flights and leave that day for Boston, effectively closing the case. ''It looked like it was an accident, and we couldn't prove that the other person had something to do with a crime,'' said prosecutor Elivia Lugo.
The next day, Renee's brothers Michael and John flew to Aruba to retrieve their sister's body. They began asking questions of hotel officials and authorities; they began to doubt Roy's story and the competence of the Aruban police.

They won help from Barbara Stephenson, the US consul general to Aruba. Troubled by what they told her, Stephenson arranged Aruban approval for an FBI evidence team to fly to the island later that week to work with Aruban authorities.

FBI officials have refused to comment about what they found. But both US and Aruban officials involved with the case said in interviews that evidence from the joint investigation suggested Roy's story was false.

From the outset, it seemed implausible that Renee had simply fallen over a 44-inch-high safety railing whose top bar would have nestled under her rib cage. No one had ever fallen over the railings; the only known balcony death at the Wyndham was a suicide several years ago. A new theory began to form.

http://tinyurl.com/y9ruuj


.

Full article is also in SM Murder and Crime thread.

Thank you.  Very interesting.  

Why am I not surprised?  

Seems the one sad island has had practice deceiving those on whom it depends for its livelihood.  

What a shame.

Yes...the old " no evidence of a crime" mantra.

Hotshot - Sorry, I couldn't make heads or tails out of your Diario article re. PVDS.

There's another item in today's Diario that I can't pull up the story for. Front page top headline "Turismo di Baratiyo a Haci su Entrada." Anyone?

Is this the article msmarple?

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/diariofrontpage.jpg)

San - Yes. Maybe with your screen shot I can try to read the caption. (Well, on the %#%% pap translator.)

Okay, this doesn't seem to be anything earthshaking. Don't take this to the bank, but apparently a fellow inside his (?) house was feared to be harming himself or potentially others. Possibly a gun involved. Door barricaded. Parimedics & ambulance carted him off. Apparently had been treated for depression in the past, or that's what going to happen now. Apparently from Holland.

Hotshot not sure but I think this is the translation for the article. Was posted by MF @ FOB

Posted: Tue Jan 16th, 2007 06:53 am
Some say the decision could come sooner, but the official word is that it will come on February 6, 2007 in the morning.

Yesterday the supreme court handled the case in which the Prosecutor's Office appealed the case in which mr. P. vd S. was awarded over Afls. 50.000,- in a case where the judge agreed that there was no reason for his detention. When the Prosecutor's Office appealed the case, the lawyers for vd. S. also did the same.

The Prosecutor's Office, defended by mr. Jorg insisted that vd. S. was not entitled to any money, since there were reasons to detained the person, but the lawyer for vd. S. mr. Swaen refused this and said that the amount due is nothing compared to the damages his client suffered during this ordeal.

The three judges will evaluate the case and the decision made in Curacao next month.

Here is the article regarding Paulus:

APELACION DI O.M CONTRA PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT A TUMA LUGAR AYERA

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Dialuna mainta a tuma lugar e caso cu Ministerio Publico a entama contra Paul van der Sloot.
Algun tempo pasa van der Sloot a entama un caso di daño y perhuicio, pa e daño cu el a sufri entre otro pa loke ta e puesto di huez cu e lo por a haya.
Huez den e caso ey a otorga un suma di varios mil florin na van der Sloot, kende actualmente ta traha como abogado.
Ministerio Publico no tabata di acuerdo cu e veredicto aki y a dicidi di apela.
Dialuna e caso a tuma lugar, pero esaki tabata cera pa publico y prensa.
DIARIO a purba di haya contacto cu abogado Arie Swaen kende ta representa mr van der Sloot pa haya mas detaye, sinembargo esaki no a logra.
Mirando cu durante cierto casonan di corte superior Dialuna e hueznan a bisa cu awe mes nan lo duna nan veredicto, probablemente esaki tambe lo ta e caso den e caso aki.

DIARIO mayan lo duna mas informacion tocante di e caso aki y otro casonan di corte superior.

========================

Paulus' lawyer is a very influential guy.  He is on the board of the Centrale Bank van Aruba.

I wonder if he was at Paulus' house that night :wink: .

Thanks Yap.  It takes 3 judges to make a decision regard a few pennies rewarded to Paulus but only one judge to decide if his son is a cold blooded murderer.

I would like to know the 3 judges names:

Schmit, Witt and Shit. :roll:

Schmit, Witt and Shit

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol:  :wink:

Gee, last I heard they were all working at that other firm...

DEWEY, CHEATHAM & HOWE!

I think that nothing and much will be revealed soon.Shango gives riddles for answers,as we know.i think the real rulers referred to in Shango are not the dutch,but the drug/money lords.I think time will answer all questions,like who was the insider who was spilling the truth a few months ago.Cat

The blood in dk's car was mentioned in Dave's book.It was also mentioned that jvds had cuts and bruises on his face.The DNA test on the was blocked at the time,so could be one the creeps blood.Just a random thought,Cat

high-five  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Old post from MF on RWV about Lugo (the new? prosecutor).

Karen Janssen was on the case from day one. The only one changed in the DA was the spokesperson when in the beginning they had press conferences. The other DA that could replace Karen, was pregnant that time. If Lugo was working those days, believe, whe was a real B*ch and all those media circus would not have happened. Karen was too soft for those reporters.

Jan van Straatten after he retired was replaced by Gerold Dompig.

What else do you want to lie about?

Posted by: MF | Tuesday, January 24, 2006 at 09:41 PM

http://tinyurl.com/y2p3nu


None Glad to see you up and around.

If it was someone elses blood it was Joran's.  How could they explain Joran's blood being in Deepaks car.  After all he was a clean freak so they say.

I did not ever believe that Deepak was a clean freak about his car.  They had to say that because he was seen cleaning it in the early hours of the morning.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Good Morning Everybody!!

Good Morning Snoopy.

Good Morning San!!   :D

I have never seen this show before:

Natalee Case, Aruba on Court TV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97cDlBa3Q6A

Morning everyone! I totally agree with your statement, San. The car was cleaned with the sole purpose of protecting their respective asses!

I can't stay but was hoping there might be some news on the filing. Anyone heard anything?

Morning Monkeys!!!

WOW, SAN, Schmit, Witt and Shit. You sure woke me up with this one! :shock:  :lol:  :lol:

ALso, caused me to have to clean coffee off my monitor! :lol:

Good Morning Art how are you today. :lol:

Good morning friends..... :D

San...you are on a roll...!  Love the new corporation..... :D

Hi San! I'm feeling very good today.  I take it a day at a time these days!
How are you today????
We had a bit of ice overnight and the trees were GORGEOUS this morning!!!

I am good Art.  We didn't get any ice in NY but it is suppose to finally get cold tomorrow.

ON a rather serious note. Do any of you think this case will ever come to fruition on Aruba?
Will there ever REALLY be an investigation? Will the perpetrators of this crime against Natalee ever be prosecuted?

It would seem to me that if I were amongst the "powers that be" and an honest broker, I would re-open the case and re examine the evidence.

I wonder if the case turns cold, if the FBI and/or interpol can at that time do an investigation. I remember reading somewhere that one of these agencies can do just that ONCE the case is declared "cold".  
I sure hope tihs is factual and this does happen.

Personally , I've given up hope on the Aruban Gov to do anything but cover their collective arses.

Ok didn't we determine that DPaks car had tinted wondows?  Because at 5:00 minutes into this video, the car is on the tow truck, and it is obvious that THAT car does not have tinted windows.  I know we talked about this long ago, but it is MHO that DPaks car was the one that had the initial findings of blood in it, but it was THIS car that had pieces cut out and sent to holland.  Man I hate them all.

Glad you didn't get the ice. OUr temps are supposed to dive over the next few days as well. Just when I thought we were going to have a Non-event of a Winter!
Oh well, the ice fishermen will be happy!!!!

ART!!!  Long time since I've seen you around.  We were recently talking about how many of us that post are here in Maine or used to live in Maine.  And you were one of the first posters mentioned.

I hope all is well with you and we'll be seeing more of you.

It's sure good to see you ArtColley.  Glad you're having a good day.

Howdy CBB & MeMere, and anybody else I missed.

Art......I have my doubts about Justice being done in Aruba.  I do think Justice will come in some form though.

Snoopy,  This is what I remember too.  so if its not right, then we can be wrong together :wink:

I don't think anyone will be prosecuted in this case.  Too many people in high places involved in this coverup.  Aruba hate America.

HI Ms. DarthVada  I hope to be around more and more!  Yep, we Mainers are quite plentiful lately!!!!
Did you get the ice????

Hi Ms.  Didn't you get the memo?   I'm never wrong.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Rock On!!   8)

I do think someone will eventually spill the beans.  Too many people know exactly what happened.  I believe 3/4 of the ALE know exactly what happened and who is involved.  It is just a matter of time for someone to come forward and say what happenend.  But they will not be prosecuted.

SNoopy It is good to see you too!!!

I do hope Justice comes soon. This has been unbelievably hideous on so many levels.

BBL ya'll.  I'm multi-tasking today, and am now bravely going into son's room because I just can't stand it any longer.  Have gas mask, rubber gloves will travel.  :roll:

That is my fear as well.  :cry:

Did you hear the reporter ask Joran if he got beat up in prison :lol: .

Only a little,  got a few inches of crusty snow outside.  I'm fine with the snow, but I'd like to pass on the cold subfreezing temps!

Posted by MF at FOB regarding the new prosecutor 1/16/2007:

She's in charge now.  However she was on special leave when the whole Natalee Holloway case happened, where media and family members wanted for the island of Aruba to ignore all laws and regulations to satisfy their demands in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The Prosecutor Ms. Lugo will now handle the case as of yesterday. She was the person that should have been handling the case. Ms. Janssen left the island after a formal complaint was brought forward against her at the prosecutor's office.

Posted by MF regarding the complaint filed against KJ 1/16/2007:

I have scattered information about the complaint.... but as soon I get it... I might post it. A proces verbaal should be ready within 2 weeks.

No I stopped at 5:00 when I seen the car
cause I got pizzzed.  My bad!   :lol:

Don't forget to tie a lifeline around your waist in case you get sucked into the mess, we can get you out!  LOL

May have to be when one of these people actually moves from the island and can freely speak without repercussions? I so hope that 2007 brings some resolution for Natalee's family.  It's been TOO long. No one deserves this pain.

I think all of them are waiting for the 2-year anniversary date which is coming up rapidly.....and then the answer will be that the case has been dismissed....and that they are unable to prove anything about Natalee's disappearance.....I would then bet that the rumors of her running away or living on another island will be brought up again so that the tourists will feel better and start coming back.  If something is not done in the next few months (and I don't think it will be)...then nothing will be done...IMO

Glad you didn't get that ice..the roads were treacherous last night and this morning.  I agree re the subfreezing temps.
Time to put some homemade soup on the woodstove!!!!

OMG..I can relate to that!!!!  We werer SKEERED to go in my son's room when he was a teen!! Never knew what might jump out at us, lol!!!

Just posted by VICKI on the front page of SM:

GREAT NEWS PPL- spoke to my guy{our guy] in DC and they are going to make a PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT on their website www.travel.state.gov and it will be concerning the CRICKET WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and the whole carribian but especially LIERUBA…..how UNSAFE it is…HURRAY…..within 30 days..

Klaas

while you were sleeping...I posted a couple things on Lugo....and San discovered the name of the third judge  :wink: .

Sumbuddy need to send sumbuddy a memo....They ain't got no laws and regulations when it comes to the elite.  Good Grief!!  :roll:   Oh yea it's all Natalee and her family's fault. Morons.

Hi Monkeys.

I'm pinning my hopes on Jossy to get something resolved in this case. He's a pretty smart cookie who knows what's what.

I agree Mere that they are waiting for the 2 year anniversary.

What I think will happen is that we will have a lot of people come out and say what they think might have happened to Natalee.  But this time they will say the truth because the 3 suspects cannot be prosecuted.  We will have the people like Joe Tacopina on TV disputing these new stories and saying there is no proof that actually happened.

Yeah I saw that Buckeye - I just wanted to post myself so I could find it later.  THANKS

Saw the 3rd judge too, lol  :lol:

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:   I think you're right.  I been in there once, and already bout got lost, and stepped on some computer screws.  Dang that hurt.  He builds computers.  And of course I'm sure ya'll have figured out that he did not learn any of that stuff from me.  8)

MeMere  I truly do fear this.
I guess the only thing to do is just STAY AWAY from Aruba. You know what gets me is that after ALL this time of being TOLD why people won't go there, the Aruban Gov STILL doesn't "get it".

What is it that they DON"T understand about COVERUP and CORRUPTION?????? :roll:

Thanks, Klaas!

This is good news. The word is out.

Thanks Klaas.  It's about time, huh?

Howdy BT!!  :D

Art....coverup and corruption is a way of life....bet they laugh at the Americans who think there is something wrong with that....once I realized that tourists were "targeted", I would not care what they said or did, I would not be visiting that island.  You could never feel that you and your possessions are safe.... :shock:

Snoopy! (http://the-jurybox.com/TJB/Smileys/default/6.gif)(http://the-jurybox.com/TJB/Smileys/default/10.gif)

You are so right, MeMere.
I'd never go there. Actually, there is nothing there for me anyway, lol!!!
I think the type of tourist they will attract in the future is what we would call undesirable, however, they will probably LOVE them! 8)

(http://the-jurybox.com/TJB/Smileys/default/hahaha.gif)

Why am I NOT surprised?
What a hypocrite. Jeesh.
 :roll:

Time for me to run and try and get something done around here!

Catch you all later!!!!  :lol:

I posted an idea in my head,because I wanted a monkey's discouse.There are so many layers of crime and perversion in the sick island;drugs,money laundering,drugs from 3 continents and rival factions.These seem to tolerate,for now each other,but when money dries up and searchlights look under rocks,things may change.CAT

Good Morning All ~ I have always thought this too, SunFreak. It's Paulus, IMO.

That idiot.