Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: Kat_Gram on June 02, 2010, 06:23:12 PM



Title: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 02, 2010, 06:23:12 PM
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

Note:  we had technical difficulties and had to move a post but it ended up as the beginning post in this thread.  In case you are wondering why Kat_Gram's name is here as the starting post  :-)


Title: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 04, 2010, 06:58:37 PM
((edit - had to fix a post))


Title: Re: JORAN VAN DER SLOOT MURDERS AGAIN? Articles only - no discussion please
Post by: imnoangel on June 04, 2010, 08:39:48 PM
but you know what I don't understand for the life of me?
this Joran has a freaking fanclub.
if my daughther met him, i promise you she would run away in the opposite direction.
but he seems to have an attraction on others
he looks like a killer
he is a killer
why do girls even talk to this ........beepppppp?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:14:13 PM
From the Steph Watts show tonight - thanks Sleuth!

Will there be a transcript anywhere later?

Recap – sorry, names may be spelled wrong.  This is NOT a transcript and is paraphrased.

Dave has not spoken to any media prior to this.

“Jay”  (fake name to protect him) story – lot of dogs barking, in a panic state –woke him up.   From living room window saw someone tall walking toward direction of hotel.  Tall, white skin, short hair. From under the street lamp could see he was muddy, wet and humping on one shoe.  Had never seen him before in his life – later saw his face in the newspaper and on TV.  Looked for blood, bruises, etc. as it was so unusual.  The strange thing ws that he was looking behind him, to see if someone coming behind or something.  Wlaking looking down with a great pace.  This was Monday as he could not stay up very late – after 5 minutes or maybe less a car came at very, very slow pace from the hotel side.  It was a red jeep, guy in the jeep was wearing glassing.  (Step confirms with Tim at this point that Paulus had a red jeep).  This was at 4:00 – 4:4 am, not only did he see this middle age person driving, but also the same guy that went past his house in the passengers side at about a 45 degree angle.  Driver was looking from left to right at the houses and talking very fast to the passenger.  (Steph was in the house and could see the angle).  After they past “Jay” went back to sleep.  Later saw this person in the news –

Sue D (Cathaline Savio’s sister) called in to say thanks to the witness for coming forward.

Dave:  Aruban police never took anything seriously.  Paulus said ad Beth could confirm that Paulus originally said he picked up Joran at the McDonalds at 4:00, later changed to say 11:00

Steph:  Jay – speaks 5 languages, works for the government, would be a great witness.

Tim Miller:  John Silvetti first got with Jay 1 ½ years ago, every time they talked to him he appeared credible.  They then flew him to Houston and he passed the lie detective tests.  Tim brought to Hans in Aruba who told Tim he was not going allow cowboys to run this.

Tim: Spoke to the man who owns the fisherman hut where the trap, knife, etc was stolen – he filed  report that was never recorded.

Tim: needs to hold feet to the fire, not a reflection on this island, will never support a boycott of the island. The people on the island are wonderful, there is more crime in Houston in one night then on this island since Natalee’s death.  It is an isolated incident – those responsible need to accountable.

Dave: Their family expresses their condolence to Stepany’s.  Made it through the weekend with the 5 year anniversary OK.  Robin thumbing through the book Dave wrote, a lot that has been forgotten, unbelievable how they have recovered from this process – next day midday heard about Stephany’s death, with Joran on the run, etc.  Hopefully in Peru there will be justice.

Steph: Stephany’s girlfriend says that she ws a lesbian and would not e interested in any advances from Joran, which might have made Joran angry.

Tim: To Dave  (chocking up) afraid that he tried to have sex with Natalee and if she fought could have been like Stephany

Dave:  Still struggling with issue of Joran – would it be better to be in Peru or US. If US air conditioning, dental, exercise. Peruvian system with hole in the ground. Aruban prison about the same. If he had his druthers would have him in Peru where his name does not pop up again. When he hears his name it makes him sick.  He thought he would get caught on a rape or drug charge but never thought something like this would happen.  Hopes Aruba judges take a close look at this and look back to see if something should have done differently.
 
Tim:   Joran drew another map recently as to where Natalee’s body was. Joran contacted this person the day after Stephany was murdered.  Does not anticipate anything based on this map as everything coming from Joran’s lips is a lie, but damned if do, damned if don’t.  Need to check, if strike out on these, will generate the money needed to complete the deep water search. They have 140 plus targets, will take $1.5 million to inspect all targets.  Tim promise to Dave to never give up in trying to bring Natalee home.    Needs $ to do.

Steph: Warning to Kalpoes - will be coming to talk to the Kalpoes with cameras.

Dave: Just do everything above board.

Jay (re: tone on the island):   Thank to Sue for the encouragement.  The news came to Aruba the next day, now they start understanding that Joran is a predator.  Previously they only got news from the OM prosecutor). Now they do understand that he is a murderer.

Seph:  Aruba does not want Joran to confess – want him to stay in Peru and to have this as Peru’s problem.

Dave:  Joran has never been accountable. He probably did the same thing with Natalee, in leaving her at the beach or wherever.

Tim:  Ever since Natalee was abducted, Joran has not had to work.  He has told lies and the media has paid him.

Steph: Has experienced with Joran first hand

Tim: We have allowed him to travel freely.  We don’t know who set up the sting operation in Alabama, but did the $15,000 allow him to go to Peru.  We made Joran’s job easier as he made many thousands to continue doing what he has done.  Everyone, every news outlet, every person that has ever given Joran 10 cents – Tim hopes they think about it as they try to sleep as they contributed to Joran doing this.

Dave:  Was not aware of the sting or the Peru stuff until on the news.

Steph: Will be balls to the wall on the island. Joran’s mother on the island, will try to speak to her.

Dave: Prior to this sting operation nothing was going on.  Dave periodically would call the FBI but nothing was happening.

Dave: Answers will probably come when JOran is in prison and one of the prison mates might get the answers.

Tim: Today spent most of the day with Jay. Jay is a great guy, Jay said it best today that every day Joran will go to a new level of hell for Joran.  His life will not be as pleasant in jail in Peru as it was in Aruba.

Jay (re: would Joran come here for prison):  Peruvian woman told him that Aruban jail is like heaven in comparison to Peru.

Steph: The Netherands has assigned an attorney and will be sending someone over there.

Jay: Thought five years ago that the Netherlands would have attorneys to defend Joran – part of the reason he did not come forward.  Joran place blame on the security guards, etc.  The Netherlands will send the best attorneys to help their guy.

Dave:  Stephaney’s father has said that they will get justice, there will be a power struggle.

Steph: Joran again picked the wrong girl to murder.

Dave: The President of Peru has indicated that Joran will not leave the country until Joran has been charged and has served his time.

Dave: Avoided press as this is a Stephany case and also that .  Food for thought – most of the hotels have American TV. He walked out for 2 cups of coffee.  American media was showing about 8:00 am – did she flip through the channel and saw him on TV – did that spark this.

Jay:  We have to pray for the Peruvian detectives to not make mistakes and contaminate evidence so that we do not have the same story.

Steph: This has extensive evidence, DNA, the weapon.

Tim: They would have to ame a lot of mistakes before Joran would ever walk out of that jail.  Does not believe Joran will ever walk out of Peru alive.

Steph: However far fetched the map is, it needs to be checked, That is why Tim is here and why Steph is here documenting it.  No stone to be unturned.

Tim: It would have been easy to give the map to the authorities in Aruba but they do not have a good track record. It is a shame that we have to do their job.  This is his 9th trip to Aruba.  Made a promiste to Dave that he would not give up and he will do everything he can to bring Natalee home.

Steph: In Aruba until next Saturday, welcomed Dave to join them.

Dave: Doesn’t plan to quit – if he quits everyone else does. Prayers to Stephany’s family.

Steph: Believes Jay, story has not changed.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:15:01 PM
Click on the link below NOW:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Pretzer060610.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:17:33 PM
BLINK on now!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 06, 2010, 09:19:18 PM
Thanks for bringing all that over!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:19:50 PM
I was doing that while you were locking!  Thanks for locking!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 06, 2010, 09:20:18 PM

She may have been dead at that point. I would not put it past JVDS to kill, go get a cup of Joe and then pack his stuff and leave.

I think the coffee was an attempt to try to build an alibi. He's going to try and say, he left the room and she was alive and he went to get two cups of coffee, someone got into the room, maybe she opened the door thinking it was him coming back and that is who the real killer is and he's innocent. Just like he did with Natalee Holloway.


I believe that was all totally for an alibi..............I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 06, 2010, 09:20:51 PM
BLINK on now!

Darn I wish I could get it...............I LOVE BLINK !!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 06, 2010, 09:21:11 PM
:O: blink is beeping... I hope it isn't a bomb ! eek


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 09:21:22 PM
Just getting caught up.  Captured these from the video.  Does it look like a old cassette tape in the first image and who is the person in the picture he carries around in the 2nd picture?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 06, 2010, 09:22:18 PM
:O: blink is beeping... I hope it isn't a bomb ! eek

Hahahaha!  I was checking all my open windows trying to figure out what was beeping at me!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 09:24:07 PM
Bend over


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:25:57 PM
When I was watching the video what you think is a cassette tape I was thinking was just a passport and ID binder thing. 

The photos, that one looks like it's a girl wearing riding boots.  Not sure who it would be.  There's another photo that looks like it could be maybe from 2008 christmas Anita, Paulus, Valentijn and Sebastian (maybe).  Some looked like they were postcards to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tracy1 on June 06, 2010, 09:29:01 PM
Joel Brodsky makes my blood run cold.  There have been tips and nothing has turned up so DP is innocent!!  What planet is this guy on.  I know many hate attorneys but he is the sleaziest of the sleeze....and I hate him.

He KNOWS that DP is a murderer...was a dirty cop and a woman beater.  How he continues to talk this way is beyond the pale.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 06, 2010, 09:30:39 PM
Magnolia
Yes Texasmom did a great job.  Debbie and her crew just derail the questions.

Klassend
Well, someone already registered with my nic. Guess their scared of me actually being able to confront them with the truth. I tried to register with KERMITfromSM so people will know when I do speak it's the real me instead of Truthseeker and Debbie trying to derail people, but the email registration did not come through for me either.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:31:20 PM
Joel Brodsky makes my blood run cold.  There have been tips and nothing has turned up so DP is innocent!!  What planet is this guy on.  I know many hate attorneys but he is the sleaziest of the sleeze....and I hate him.

He KNOWS that DP is a murderer...was a dirty cop and a woman beater.  How he continues to talk this way is beyond the pale.

He's a defense attorney.  IMO all defense attorneys are limeballs.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:33:39 PM
ElaineS = +3

Glenda/Renfro = 0



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pinkbanana on June 06, 2010, 09:35:20 PM
ElaineS = +3

Glenda/Renfro = 0



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

She told her...ha

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 09:37:07 PM
Joran Van der Sloot sparks debate on Facebook
The language barrier is no obstacle on Facebook, where hundreds of surfers commented for and against the Dutchman, the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores (21).

The language barrier is no obstacle on Facebook, online meeting place where the crime of Peruvian Stephany Flores (21) has caused a stir. Comments for and against the alleged murderer Joran Van der Sloot and all kinds of links on information from national and international press feed the pages created after this famous case.

Upon joining the Facebook search for "Joran Van der Sloot" we arrive at a site that is already home to 404 "fans" to be understood that not necessarily concentrated positions of support but people who want to comment because the topic interests you.

Front pages of newspapers in the area of photos give a sort of chronology of events, along with the information and the links attached users. The latest and most talked about is all about stopping the Netherlands after his arrival in Lima and his alleged admission to the maximum security prison Miguel Castro Castro, where he would have already put up a cell, according to press reports.

Regarding the latter, some comments from those who assume his guilt:

"They say the Peruvian prisons are the most horrible thing in the world. Joran Welcome home!. We hope that next brutal death we read it on his own."

"Welcome to hell. Lurigancho now cursed (criminal) will give you what you deserve."

"In Holland is a hero but everyone expects him to be punished eventually. Good luck Joran in a Peruvian prison because they spend the rest of your life there."

"You look innocent, but you're a great criminal, hidden in that angelic face."

"Murderer! Be killed."

Some others estimate that the proceedings against Van der Sloot will take a long time and meanwhile, the accused will have to pass in a local jail. "What I do not know is that here in Peru you are not innocent until proven that it is."

Among the photographs that the site has to be seen as ironic case, a doctored photo that seen in overseas sharing a cell with other criminals. Well as a relaxed and creative "fan" took the time to make an acrostic the main suspect of killing Stephany.

"J: juerguero / O: stubborn / R: greedy / A: murderer / N: necromaníaco."

Some call for free saga is sent back to his country, Holland.

Meanwhile, some more thoughtful than the moral rescue of a situation that every angle view of no less regrettable.

"If he is innocent, then you try it! (...) But they know they will be a lesson to Latina women who see a foreigner and believe that the Virgin appeared to them."

"It's horrible what happened. May God forgive him."

"I am Peruvian, and everything that has gone into this incident so bad I take it as an awareness to our young people: Do not be trusted. Many times we have bad belief that when a foreigner is good, nice, nice and rich. not and this is a great example. "

Another page on Facebook called "Stephany Flores Ramirez and Joran Van der Sloot Case" 540 "fans" also let the girl, messages lamenting his untimely demise.

"Rest in peace Stephany. Nobody is entitled to seize a person's life. I am a young 21, the same age as her and I know that sometimes we make bad decisions that lead to this but whatever you do not have So this monster. I hope that more young people we realize that our life is the most valuable thing we have that before making any silly we think about the people around us in displays family, our parents brought us so much love the world. "

And do not miss a less contemplative. "I think if the boy was called Indian features and Mamani Quispe Eufemio she paid no attention. So I'm sure you reported to the security of the casino wondering why he is there and thinking that he wanted to steal, but seeing a blonde high, did not raise suspicions. maybe he also learned quickly gain their trust but as they say everything comes in through the eye. "

Finally a third site, unlike the previous two shows a personal Facebook might be the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, created under that name.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-06-joran-van-der-sloot-desata-debate-en-facebook-noticia_270370.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:37:34 PM
ElaineS had been going to Aruba a few times a year for many many years.  She has good friends in Aruba and it truly is like her 2nd home.  She has realized for some time that Joran was guilty and has been fed up with the lies of Renfro and other in an attempt to make Joran look like he's innocent.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Shan1628 on June 06, 2010, 09:39:41 PM
ElaineS = +3

Glenda/Renfro = 0



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

FABULOUS!  LMAO! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: the big hammer on June 06, 2010, 09:45:17 PM
 
Premeditated?

SteveDin MD writes: Many have commented that they believe Joran lured the Peruvian girl into his hotel room with every intention of committing murder.  That wouldn't seem to make much sense, though.  Had he intended to commit murder all along, he would have been far better off to have done the deed anywhere BUT his room.  It would be predictably difficult if not impossible to afterward remove the girl's body unnoticed.  What then?  If he couldn't remove and dispose of the body, it would eventually be discovered and traced to him.  That's why Joran fled the jurisdiction shortly after she died.  It's a desperate move and he couldn't possibly have wanted that outcome, which makes me believe that the victim's death was an unforeseen result of the crime. 
     Rather, I suspect that Joran's intention was probably rape and/or robbery.  First, the drug Rohypnol was reportedly found in the girl's car, abandoned at some distance from the hotel -- consistent with a drug-assisted sexual assault.  Second, the girl had reportedly won a considerable amount of money at the casino where she encountered Joran, making her an especially attractive target for a man, like Joran, in dire need of cash.  He could have his way with her AND be so much the richer for having done so. 
     

Good post, thanks.

It suggests of course that any young woman alone with Joran van der Sloot is in a very high risk category.  Perhaps a revisit of the previous allegations made by 3-4 young women about being assaulted by a younger goon when on Aruba would be especially enlightening, in view of the recent developments.

Assuming the videotaped "confession" made by Peter de Vries, the one in which the goon mimics a convulsing and dying Natalee, was "nearly true" -- I long ago thought that jvds and "the pimps" would have altered their modus, and lightened up on the dosages delivered to their targeted victims.  And since they are self-taught low achievers, the variability of their handiwork probably ranged from fatal overdose to no effect observed.  Stefany may well be an example of the latter.

Premeditated?  If not, the calendared anniversary killing is certainly a one-in-a-million coincidence. 

Maybe the goon just intended to perform an anniversary rape, instead.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 06, 2010, 09:49:52 PM


Hooray for Dana!  Absolutely right on!

"Nobody should rest until Natalee Holloway gets a proper burial."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 09:52:53 PM
Last night I dug up an article that stated Stephany was found fully clothed wearing a shirt, coat and bathing suit.  These clothes are totally different than what we see her wearing as she enters the room.  I am now wondering if she was wearing the clothing she was found in under the guise of taking modeling pictures or similar or if he staged her in these clothes so he could take his own sick and twisted pictures of her while she was drugged?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 09:53:43 PM

Premeditated?

SteveDin MD writes: Many have commented that they believe Joran lured the Peruvian girl into his hotel room with every intention of committing murder.  That wouldn't seem to make much sense, though.  Had he intended to commit murder all along, he would have been far better off to have done the deed anywhere BUT his room.  It would be predictably difficult if not impossible to afterward remove the girl's body unnoticed.  What then?  If he couldn't remove and dispose of the body, it would eventually be discovered and traced to him.  That's why Joran fled the jurisdiction shortly after she died.  It's a desperate move and he couldn't possibly have wanted that outcome, which makes me believe that the victim's death was an unforeseen result of the crime. 
     Rather, I suspect that Joran's intention was probably rape and/or robbery.  First, the drug Rohypnol was reportedly found in the girl's car, abandoned at some distance from the hotel -- consistent with a drug-assisted sexual assault.  Second, the girl had reportedly won a considerable amount of money at the casino where she encountered Joran, making her an especially attractive target for a man, like Joran, in dire need of cash.  He could have his way with her AND be so much the richer for having done so. 
     

Good post, thanks.

It suggests of course that any young woman alone with Joran van der Sloot is in a very high risk category.  Perhaps a revisit of the previous allegations made by 3-4 young women about being assaulted by a younger goon when on Aruba would be especially enlightening, in view of the recent developments.

Assuming the videotaped "confession" made by Peter de Vries, the one in which the goon mimics a convulsing and dying Natalee, was "nearly true" -- I long ago thought that jvds and "the pimps" would have altered their modus, and lightened up on the dosages delivered to their targeted victims.  And since they are self-taught low achievers, the variability of their handiwork probably ranged from fatal overdose to no effect observed.  Stefany may well be an example of the latter.

Premeditated?  If not, the calendared anniversary killing is certainly a one-in-a-million coincidence. 

Maybe the goon just intended to perform an anniversary rape, instead.

.

Very good post.  Is a baseball bat the trademark of this serial murderer?  I do recall there was a serial murderer, I think, in St. Marteen, that had the same MO.  Used a baseball bat to dispose of any ungrateful women.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 09:54:51 PM
P.S.  Dana, enjoyed listening to your program.  You are really quite the professional.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 09:56:58 PM
Hello Tyler!!  Good to see you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 09:59:29 PM
Last night I dug up an article that stated Stephany was found fully clothed wearing a shirt, coat and bathing suit.  These clothes are totally different than what we see her wearing as she enters the room.  I am now wondering if she was wearing the clothing she was found in under the guise of taking modeling pictures or similar or if he staged her in these clothes so he could take his own sick and twisted pictures of her while she was drugged?



I recall reading she had on a polo shirtdress and panties.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
Hi Tyler good to see you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 09:59:51 PM
Last night I dug up an article that stated Stephany was found fully clothed wearing a shirt, coat and bathing suit.  These clothes are totally different than what we see her wearing as she enters the room.  I am now wondering if she was wearing the clothing she was found in under the guise of taking modeling pictures or similar or if he staged her in these clothes so he could take his own sick and twisted pictures of her while she was drugged?




I think it is in the translations.  I think she was wearing a skirt, a blouse, (which came across as coat)
and bikini panties ( came across as a bathing suit)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 09:59:55 PM
Joran Van Der Sloot "a serial murderer?


Netherlands is being held in Peru for alleged murder of a young woman in Lima, five years ago was charged with the murder of Natalee Holloway in Aruba.


It all began on May 30 when they found the body of Stefanny Flores age 21 in a hotel in Miraflores. Police investigations identified as the alleged perpetrator to Joran Van Der Sloot, a Dutchman who five years ago, at the same time, passing through a similar situation in Aruba without podérsele prove anything because Natalee Holloway's body was never found.

According to press reports Jehoram of 23 years arrived in Peru on 14 May with the intention to participate in the Latin American Poker Tour to take place in Lima, although not enter the tournament turned on the unfailing customer Casinos capital has become well known. Witnesses of these game nights showed that the young man had planned to stay a month in the country and who was complaining that despite being a handsome man women do not want to leave with him.

The tests reveal what
The evidence that he was the murderer of the young woman from Lima are more concrete, a hotel security video shows the very moment when both entered the room and only he, after a few hours, who will retire rather different garb carrying a suitcase and displaying a calm immutable.

One thing that could prevent this tragedy was the accusation made by the Panamanian singer Ruben Blades to members of Atlantic City casino security, he recognized the Dutchman accused of killing Natalee in the United States. His wake-up call, hours before the murder in Lima, went unheeded and when the artistic return on Monday 31 to find out what happened again reiterated his claim "I told you so" said lamenting what happened.

Blades also said he could talk and listen as this Jehoram wanted to get some girl and regret not being able to have a night that I identify it, without realizing that hours after committing his crime.

Picking up the last steps
Hours before his death Stefanny Flores shared his final hours with two of his best friends from college, who enjoyed a night at the pub El Gringo de Barranco where they remained until 2:30 am Sunday May 30 .

Moments later the girl decides to close to their homes and Carola Carolina are saying goodbye to the latter also go to rest, but retired in his pickup truck toward the casino de Miraflores, where he met and stayed together Joran until 5:00 am.

At that time retire to the hotel at 5:15 am admitted to his room and about three hours later, at 8:10 am the Dutchman leaves and returns with two cups of coffee and bread, and out again at 9 : 30 am, never to return, apparently in that time period would have produced the crime.

Mother of the first victim
This sign is for the family of missing American teenager a chance for justice. Natalee's mother Beth Twitty began a struggle to clarify the death of his daughter since Joran was released for lack of evidence after being the prime suspect of the crime.

A May 30, 2005 was the last time Natalee was seen in 18 years to life in a casino by the Netherlands where this girl was on a study tour in Aruba.

Psychological profile of Joran
For the psychotherapist Manuel Saravia, the Dutchman has psychopathic traits, they are characterized by having a friendly and harmless appearance which facilitates the seduction and subsequent killing of their victims.

The examiner also indicated that any psychopath tends to repeat their methods of murder, as in the case in which Joran knows someone in a public place, takes it to a secluded spot and kills her.

In this sense the Netherlands Kieran Kaal journalist who covers incidents in Peru said his fellow accused of murder for second time is a strange and a pathological liar, said a young man who is dedicated to fun, live and play in casinos Poker, as well as being involved in cases of prostitution in Thailand.

In Peru, a crime of homicide for which he is accused Joran Van Der Sloot have a term of 15-30 years in prison and in this case will be assessed as the ferocity of the crime aggravated by the brutal beatings and Stefanny cruelty because the alleged murderer has earned the trust of the victim. For the lawyer Luis Lamas Puccio the trial may last more than two years and extradition is not necessary until you finish the sentence.

http://justiciatribunales.suite101.net/article.cfm/joran-van-der-sloot-un-asesino-en-serie


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 09:59:59 PM
Link to Dana Pretzer

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

I think that maybe Clint van Zandt is next!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: tcumom on June 06, 2010, 10:02:03 PM
Tylergal ~ It's great to see you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:03:38 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:04:13 PM
Last night I dug up an article that stated Stephany was found fully clothed wearing a shirt, coat and bathing suit.  These clothes are totally different than what we see her wearing as she enters the room.  I am now wondering if she was wearing the clothing she was found in under the guise of taking modeling pictures or similar or if he staged her in these clothes so he could take his own sick and twisted pictures of her while she was drugged?




I think it is in the translations.  I think she was wearing a skirt, a blouse, (which came across as coat)
and bikini panties ( came across as a bathing suit)

That very well could be.  Thank you, never thought of that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:05:03 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:07:36 PM
The suspect was handed over by the Chilean authorities
The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot would go up to 30 years in prison
07/06/2010 - Agencies (Lima) Hours before his death, the young Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez (21) shared the last moments of life with his close friends and college classmates, Carola Gallo Sanguinetti and Caroline, according to a report the Dirincri.
The document says Stephany left home at 3 pm Saturday May 29 in his truck to pick up Carol in San Isidro. With it went to a hotel on the block 41 of the Paseo de la Republica, in Miraflores, where he remained until 11:30 pm, he arrived Carolina.

An hour earlier, 10 p.m. Saturday, Stephany was communicated by telephone with his father Ricardo Flores "rifle" and said he was coming home late. Then the three girls went to the pub El Gringo de Barranco, where they remained until 2:30 am 30 May.

At that time are removed from the site. Stephany is home to Carolina Gallo in Chacarilla (Furrow), a few blocks from her home, while Carola Sanguinetti left on Avenida Las Begonias (San Isidro).

On parting, 3:20 am, Stephany Carola lies to tell him to go to his house when in fact headed to Atlantic City Casino Miraflores. Her friend Carol, who had just left, he called five minutes later, but Stephany did not answer. Just sent a text message that says "I'm going up the stairs to get to my bedroom."

The Dirincri Stephany stated that her friend lied because he did not like to attend the casinos for his fondness for gambling. In the casino, Stephany met Joran van der Sloot, who had had previous meetings by an international poker competition. Along with him was the Albanian Elton Garcia, who was staying at the hotel like Joran Tac.

TWO CUPS OF COFFEE
He stayed there until 5 am Sunday where Joran and Stephany are removed from the casino. A witness saw them leave in the truck. Stephany drove.

It is at 5:15 a.m. when the couple entered the hotel Tac. Three hours later, 8:10 a.m. Sunday, the Dutchman out of the hotel and goes to Wong in front of the hotel to buy bread and two cups of coffee. Then back to the room and out again at 9:30 am to address Stephany van, carrying in his hand a small suitcase and a backpack. In this period would have caused death.

PENALTY OF UP TO 30 YEARS
Luis Lamas Puccio's attorney explained that the crime of first degree murder of which is being investigated Van der Sloot has a sentence of 15-30 years in prison and will be evaluated as an aggravating the ferocity of the crime (beatings Stephany) and brutality (the alleged murderer had gained the confidence of the victim). He said the trial may last more than two years and extradition is not necessary until the completion of the sentence.

Joran van der Sloot, held on Thursday in Chile, now come by land to Lima after the Chilean authorities hand him over to Interpol agents traveled to Lima to Tacna for that purpose. The transfer of the alleged murderer of Stephany is ground in a police motorcade that left yesterday at 3:08 pm Tacna Once in Lima will be taken to the headquarters of the Dirincri, Avenue Spain, where he will be questioned.

http://www.diariocritico.com/peru/2010/Junio/noticias/211978/holandes-joran-van-der-sloot-pasaria-30-anos-prision.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 06, 2010, 10:08:23 PM
Whorealdo is having LSD flashbacks from the 60's :monkeynono:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:09:12 PM
Whorealdo is having LSD flashbacks from the 60's :monkeynono:

I'm not listening to Geraldo so if he says anything new or intelligent, please let us know :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 10:10:07 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 10:12:38 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure. 

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 10:12:41 PM

Premeditated?

SteveDin MD writes: Many have commented that they believe Joran lured the Peruvian girl into his hotel room with every intention of committing murder.  That wouldn't seem to make much sense, though.  Had he intended to commit murder all along, he would have been far better off to have done the deed anywhere BUT his room.  It would be predictably difficult if not impossible to afterward remove the girl's body unnoticed.  What then?  If he couldn't remove and dispose of the body, it would eventually be discovered and traced to him.  That's why Joran fled the jurisdiction shortly after she died.  It's a desperate move and he couldn't possibly have wanted that outcome, which makes me believe that the victim's death was an unforeseen result of the crime. 
     Rather, I suspect that Joran's intention was probably rape and/or robbery.  First, the drug Rohypnol was reportedly found in the girl's car, abandoned at some distance from the hotel -- consistent with a drug-assisted sexual assault.  Second, the girl had reportedly won a considerable amount of money at the casino where she encountered Joran, making her an especially attractive target for a man, like Joran, in dire need of cash.  He could have his way with her AND be so much the richer for having done so. 
     

Good post, thanks.

It suggests of course that any young woman alone with Joran van der Sloot is in a very high risk category.  Perhaps a revisit of the previous allegations made by 3-4 young women about being assaulted by a younger goon when on Aruba would be especially enlightening, in view of the recent developments.

Assuming the videotaped "confession" made by Peter de Vries, the one in which the goon mimics a convulsing and dying Natalee, was "nearly true" -- I long ago thought that jvds and "the pimps" would have altered their modus, and lightened up on the dosages delivered to their targeted victims.  And since they are self-taught low achievers, the variability of their handiwork probably ranged from fatal overdose to no effect observed.  Stefany may well be an example of the latter.

Premeditated?  If not, the calendared anniversary killing is certainly a one-in-a-million coincidence. 

Maybe the goon just intended to perform an anniversary rape, instead.

.

     Any woman in the presence of JVDS is at grave risk, indeed!  As for the recent homicide being a one-in-a-million random coincidence, I think not.  My guess is that Joran is a habitual, serial rapist and that he's very frequently active -- perhaps as frequently as every week.  Another fatality was bound to happen, sooner or later.  Who knows?  Perhaps there have been others.  One could practically guarantee that there have been other rapes. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 06, 2010, 10:12:56 PM
Quote of the night from Clint Van Zandt

"We are finally going to get you, you smart ass"

BRAVO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 06, 2010, 10:13:26 PM
Tylergal, great to see you here!

Apparently, Dana is going over in his time for the program tonight as it is still on now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 06, 2010, 10:13:41 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 10:13:57 PM
Thanks everyone for the comments about my chat room questions during the Steph Watts show.  For those who weren't listening...my questions were not acknowledged by anyone that could have answered them.  

I'd typed a whole big long response about it while the threads were changing, so I lost it.  I'm not typing it all over again!  At least not until after I finish listening to Dana, and take a long hot shower.  

THANK YOU SO MUCH Sleuth for the recap of Steph's show!  

Other than what Dave said, God bless him, I got lost in all the confusion..lol.  Of course when I started reading your transcription it started coming back to me.  I'm going to try to listen to it again later.

I certainly appreciate Steph bringing all the guests on for us to hear, but he could really take some lessons from Dana.

Dana's the BEST!  :monkeyheart:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 06, 2010, 10:14:45 PM
Whorealdo is having LSD flashbacks from the 60's :monkeynono:

I'm not listening to Geraldo so if he says anything new or intelligent, please let us know :)

Well, I'm not sure this qualifies as either, but evidently he reported that Joran is not cooperating with the Peruvian officials.  Mark Fuhrman, on some type of Skype type thing with a telephone says that Joran's experience is "Don't talk, don't get charged".  Makes sense.

Kimberly Guillfoyle (guest) says its a slam dunk as long as there's no break in the security video of the room entryway.  (Duh.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 10:14:48 PM
I hope just by some hook or crook that Beth can prevail upon the powers that be in Peru who will allow her attendance so that she will be able to sit in the courtroom and stare him down.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 06, 2010, 10:16:30 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Well, Joran doesn't have a gold medal for honesty.....

Most hotels have little safes in the room, but always have notations in their literature to leave valuables with the front desk.  You and I wouldn't leave our passport at the front desk, but in his warped mind, it probably sounded good at the time. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 06, 2010, 10:16:43 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Common practice in other countries. You see it in WWII movies set in Europe. I don't know if they still do that in Europe.



Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 10:16:49 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.

From the many articles I've read...in Aruba a lot of tourists lose their passports when their bags are taken by robbers, or their rooms are robbed.  It's probably not a bad idea at all to have it locked up in a safe somewhere, just in case you're robbed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 06, 2010, 10:17:12 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

So that explains why he took a taxi and did not fly out of there. Without a passport he would have to go the "back way" to get out of the country into Chile.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 06, 2010, 10:17:57 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.

Common practice in other countries. You see it in WWII movies set in Europe. I don't know if they still do that in Europe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 06, 2010, 10:18:38 PM
Whorealdo is having LSD flashbacks from the 60's :monkeynono:

I'm not listening to Geraldo so if he says anything new or intelligent, please let us know :)

Oh, I am not listening to him....I was reacting to what he said about the passport, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 10:19:04 PM
Mark Fuhrman said Peru has to do their job forensically.  Fingernail scrappings, hair and skin, walls and furniture.

Geraldo said Peru has a reputation of some of the toughest prisions.  He would be shocked if Joran survives over there.

Dr. Baden said he ain't going to last very long over there.

Kimberly said a lot of TB and HIV over there.

She said it appears they are doing their job over there.  It couldn't happen to a better guy.

She said can you imagine if it happened to a person whose father didn't run for office over there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 10:19:13 PM
Quote of the night from Clint Van Zandt

"We are finally going to get you, you smart ass"

BRAVO

:monkeydance: !!!!  With my "JUSTICE" sign of course, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 06, 2010, 10:19:33 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Well, Joran doesn't have a gold medal for honesty.....

Most hotels have little safes in the room, but always have notations in their literature to leave valuables with the front desk.  You and I wouldn't leave our passport at the front desk, but in his warped mind, it probably sounded good at the time.  

In some countries I always leave mine in the hotel safe. I carry a copy of the front and my visa, but I do not carry it as a rule in many countries. It just depends on what country I am visiting, but most South American countries and Mexico I put mine in the safe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 06, 2010, 10:19:58 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.

From the many articles I've read...in Aruba a lot of tourists lose their passports when their bags are taken by robbers, or their rooms are robbed.  It's probably not a bad idea at all to have it locked up in a safe somewhere, just in case you're robbed.

They stated his passport was kept until he was checking out and the room was clean, etc.......it was not a luxury hotel and in light of the extensive video cams, they must have their fair share of skip-out's and damages to rooms. In that regard retaining passports makes sense.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:20:51 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 10:21:18 PM
~ Hi Tyler!  Happy to see you again!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:21:21 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

http://www.livesecure.org/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:21:39 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

So that explains why he took a taxi and did not fly out of there. Without a passport he would have to go the "back way" to get out of the country into Chile.

He could not use the plane ticket he had without his passport, you are so right.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:22:52 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.

From the many articles I've read...in Aruba a lot of tourists lose their passports when their bags are taken by robbers, or their rooms are robbed.  It's probably not a bad idea at all to have it locked up in a safe somewhere, just in case you're robbed.

They stated his passport was kept until he was checking out and the room was clean, etc.......it was not a luxury hotel and in light of the extensive video cams, they must have their fair share of skip-out's and damages to rooms. In that regard retaining passports makes sense.

Ah, ok.  Back in my traveling days I've never had them keep a passport but I've also never stayed in a place like a hostil (sp)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:23:59 PM
RED will be next up on Dana Pretzer!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on June 06, 2010, 10:24:02 PM
Red up next.  This is a great show Dana.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:24:06 PM
Former attorney questioned Joran van der Sloot tests involving the murder of Stephany Dutchman Flores (with video)

Joseph Tacopina hinted that a third person would be responsible for murder. Also expressed its surprise that the body has been found in the room just three days after the crime

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" Asked the renowned lawyer Joseph Tacopina to question one of the strongest proofs that involve the citizen Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the murder of the young Stephany Flores occurred on Sunday 30 May.

Joseph Tacopina, who successfully defended Van der Sloot in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl five years ago, referred to the fact that the Dutchman admitted with Stephany Flores Tac Miraflores hotel early 30 May, but was only hours later, according to security video showed the accommodation.

Thus, the lawyer also defended the late King of Pop Michael Jackson hinted that a third person would be responsible for crime.

In a telephone conversation from New York with the TV program "Panorama", Joseph Tacopina also expressed surprise at the time that passed between the alleged day of the murder and the discovery of the body of Stephany.

More soon ....

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490841/ex-abogado-joran-cuestiona-pruebas-que-involucran-holandes-asesinato-stephany


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 10:25:33 PM
~ Hi Tyler!  Happy to see you again!

Thanks, Ono, you too.  You were MIA before I was, I think.  Good to see Anna, Nan, None, you and so many others too numerous to count. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 06, 2010, 10:27:10 PM
Mark Fuhrman said Peru has to do their job forensically.  Fingernail scrappings, hair and skin, walls and furniture.

Geraldo said Peru has a reputation of some of the toughest prisions.  He would be shocked if Joran survives over there.

Dr. Baden said he ain't going to last very long over there.

Kimberly said a lot of TB and HIV over there.

She said it appears they are doing their job over there.  It couldn't happen to a better guy.

She said can you imagine if it happened to a person whose father didn't run for office over there.

earlier Dr Baden said the videotape is the most critical piece of evidence combined with the stomach contents to derive the time of death.

The questions I have are:

- why would Joran have shaved his head and dyed his hair orange/red if not to attempt to disguise himself?
- where and when did he buy the hair dye? Can that be traced?
- where is the 5K that Stephany had won plus another 1K that her father had given her to buy a new laptop?
- I'm not entirely certain I believe Stephany was still alive when he returned to the room with coffee

SteveinMD - honestly I think he thought of, dreamed of, was stimulated by (yes even in sordid ways) thoughts of premeditated murder for years.

Rueben Blade's brother was also interviewed by Geraldo and stated Joran and his "friend" (meaning a guy) that were watching at the poker tourney last Saturday night/early Sunday morning were also discussing finding girls to have sex with - and he said they used "dirty language" in discussing it. It seems he deliberately eavesdropped.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:27:47 PM
Dana:  Red did you ever think we would be talking about JVDS and another murder?

Red:  Yes, we knew this day was coming.  How many other victims are out there that we don't know about yet?
How many people could be dead or sexually assaulted.  Red things he's a serial rapist not serial killer.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 06, 2010, 10:28:22 PM
From a Lonely Planet discussion about passports being held at the hotel desk:

LouisXIV, at one time it was pretty much standard procedure for every hotel in Europe to ask for your passport at check-in. Even today in some countries, they have to take all the passports, for guests who have checked-in in the last 24 hours, down to the police station along with a compiled list of them. I had a friend who worked night desk in a Greek hotel who did this as his last chore of his shift. The passports were then available for guests to pick up any time after 7am.

As for security, yes it is also about the security of the hostel/hotel. If you come in late, drunk, acting up, causing damage or fighting, they call the police. You can't just take off when they have your passport. Now you could argue that is only for the hotel's interests or you could argue that it is also in the guests best interest.

If you had ever worked in a hotel/hostel you would know that 'guests' don't always act the way you would expect a guest in your home to act. There is almost nothing that doesn't happen in a hotel over time. Theft, property damage, assault, death, you name it, it happens.

I'd guess that US hotels would love to be able to ask to hold 'guests' identification


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 10:30:05 PM
RED will be next up on Dana Pretzer!

We love you RED, thank you for ALL you've done and continue to do!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blink34 on June 06, 2010, 10:30:46 PM
BLINK on now!

Darn I wish I could get it...............I LOVE BLINK !!

Back at you Turbo.. podcast will be up tommorrow-

Jossy, Clint and Red so far, outstanding, Robin is always awesome, looking forward to it.

Kudos to Dana and SM for putting together this show, after such a week.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 10:30:59 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

It sure does!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 10:31:10 PM
From a Lonely Planet discussion about passports being held at the hotel desk:

LouisXIV, at one time it was pretty much standard procedure for every hotel in Europe to ask for your passport at check-in. Even today in some countries, they have to take all the passports, for guests who have checked-in in the last 24 hours, down to the police station along with a compiled list of them. I had a friend who worked night desk in a Greek hotel who did this as his last chore of his shift. The passports were then available for guests to pick up any time after 7am.

As for security, yes it is also about the security of the hostel/hotel. If you come in late, drunk, acting up, causing damage or fighting, they call the police. You can't just take off when they have your passport. Now you could argue that is only for the hotel's interests or you could argue that it is also in the guests best interest.

If you had ever worked in a hotel/hostel you would know that 'guests' don't always act the way you would expect a guest in your home to act. There is almost nothing that doesn't happen in a hotel over time. Theft, property damage, assault, death, you name it, it happens.

I'd guess that US hotels would love to be able to ask to hold 'guests' identification
I would hope with a global war on terrorism, holding a passport might be a common practice.  Let's pray if it is not, it will become such for many reasons.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 06, 2010, 10:32:01 PM
Also from Lonely Planet, on traveling in Italy:

It's normal proceedure for a hotel to hold your passport at least for a few hours for documentation and reports to the local authorities if you are uneasy about traveling locally without a passport(normal) just ask for it back.

They may ask for another Photo ID to make them feel more secure about YOU.If the Hotel is reputable it's usualy the safest place to keep it. The Carabineri can always check thier referances if needed.Just don't forget where you are staying...

...

They cannot legally hold your passport. However, some places do like to do this. Your choice is to not stay there, their choice is to not give you a room. It isn't illegal for them to ask to hold your passport, it is only illegal for them to hold it against your wishes.

Since they mention it is for 'security reasons' it isn't hard to figure out why they are doing this. They have had problems with guests in the past. Perhaps trashing rooms or stealing from other guests. Holding your ID means you are far less likely to just disappear on them.

I would have no problem leaving my passport with the front desk if asked. I would have a problem with staying in a place that gave me the impression that had problems however. So perhaps a bit more investigation as to the reputation of the hostel is in order. Google for reviews on the place. It may just be that they are being cautious and responsible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 06, 2010, 10:32:03 PM
~ Hi Tyler!  Happy to see you again!

Thanks, Ono, you too.  You were MIA before I was, I think.  Good to see Anna, Nan, None, you and so many others too numerous to count. 

welcome back friend


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 10:32:10 PM
Waving to Anna & None.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Frijole on June 06, 2010, 10:32:28 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Well, Joran doesn't have a gold medal for honesty.....

Most hotels have little safes in the room, but always have notations in their literature to leave valuables with the front desk.  You and I wouldn't leave our passport at the front desk, but in his warped mind, it probably sounded good at the time. 
That is true but we have to remember this really wasn't a hotel.  It was a total dive rent a room by the hour kinda place in a very seedy part of town so the amenaties, including maid service are probably not the same.  You can sort of see that from the "lobby" where they passed thru - it is very tiny and very crowded with junk.  Not luxury or even Motel 6 standard.  Thats why I think she was drugged. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blink34 on June 06, 2010, 10:32:41 PM
Dana:  Red did you ever think we would be talking about JVDS and another murder?

Red:  Yes, we knew this day was coming.  How many other victims are out there that we don't know about yet?
How many people could be dead or sexually assaulted.  Red things he's a serial rapist not serial killer.




LOL..

(Joran) following Clint's comments about Joran being lower than whale feces-

Red: I think he may be doing a dis-service to whale dung.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 06, 2010, 10:33:14 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

It sure does!

Yes, thank you Clint.  I've already had my teenage son download it.  That's a lot of peace of mind (for both of us) for 99 cents.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 06, 2010, 10:33:45 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

Yep,
I just downloaded it on my iphone and plan on telling my sons and daughter-in-law to do the same tomorrow.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 10:34:34 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure. 

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 06, 2010, 10:36:24 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

http://www.livesecure.org/

Just looked it up on iPhone. Only $0.99, well worth it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:37:20 PM
This is interesting and may explain why they needed to keep his passport as well.  Not confirmed if it is true or not yet:

Hotel Tax, Foreigners and Peruvians
by sbaustin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:18 pm

Does anyone know and/or have a link to the law with regards to who pays taxes in a hotel. I know that Peruvians are required to pay the 19%, but most of my travels I've been either charged 0 tax or 1/2 the tax when I travel with my Peruvian girlfriend, but I'd like to actually know the law. Thanks in advance.

Re: Hotel Tax, Foreigners and Peruvians
by americorps » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:43 am

Peruvians and Peruvian Residents and tourists here more than 60 days all pay the 19% tax. Tourists under 60 days do not pay any tax.

http://www.expatperu.com/expatforums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8669


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 10:37:45 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure.  

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course.  

It was said on TV last night that Aruba thinks the case against Joran is weak.  It would have been in their best interest to say nothing at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 10:39:10 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure. 

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course. 

Very well stated, but there are some that will never really get it.  I could make a list, lol. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:40:15 PM
Video of Joran van der Sloot in police custody in Peru (Part 1 of 3)

http://www.youtube.com/v/7UkxOTRoZho&hl=en_GB&fs=1&


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 10:40:44 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure.  

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course.  

It was said on TV last night that Aruba thinks the case against Joran is weak.  It would have been in their best interest to say nothing at all.

That must have been the deluded Renfro feeding that info to the media.  Is she still around or has she died of some untreated VD?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 10:43:04 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure.  

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course.  

It was said on TV last night that Aruba thinks the case against Joran is weak.  It would have been in their best interest to say nothing at all.

     That's completely irrational.  Perhaps they're in denial. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 06, 2010, 10:43:06 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.

Common practice in other countries. You see it in WWII movies set in Europe. I don't know if they still do that in Europe.


I have never traveled in S Am but several Asian countries.  It has always been recommended to us to have photo copies of our passports on our persons, but to leave the original in the hotel safe.   God bless Natalee, Stephany, and all who have waited for justice


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 10:43:14 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure.  

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course.  

It was said on TV last night that Aruba thinks the case against Joran is weak.  It would have been in their best interest to say nothing at all.

That must have been the deluded Renfro feeding that info to the media.  Is she still around or has she died of some untreated VD?

Hi Tyler!  Great to see you!  

RenHo's still around with her chronic diarrhea of the mouth, and any number of other diseases that I don't want to know about, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 06, 2010, 10:44:01 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 10:45:35 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure.  

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course.  

It was said on TV last night that Aruba thinks the case against Joran is weak.  It would have been in their best interest to say nothing at all.

     That's completely irrational.  Perhaps they're in denial. 

Now that I agree with.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blink34 on June 06, 2010, 10:46:22 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"

Agreed . Way to speak for the Planet of the Apes, Red.

Kudos to all of you here he was referring to- it counts!
B


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 10:46:25 PM
Hi, Texas Mom.  Good to see you.  Just thinking about Renfro makes me want a bath. :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 10:46:29 PM
Thank you, All.  This is so very sad, but so wonderful that they have this monster secure.  

Sure is.  Now people will be safe from him.  Too bad Aruba doesn't get it.

     Oh, I think they "get it," or they're at least in the process of getting it.  Consider this; Joran Van Der Sloot is the most famous person from Aruba.  Ever.  Until such time as an Aruban achieves greater international fame than Joran for some positive contribution to the World, their reputation as a people will suffer.  I'm sure all those among the Aruban authorities who aided and abetted the coverup -- along with those among the general public who tolerated it -- now dearly wish they had chosen a different course.  

It was said on TV last night that Aruba thinks the case against Joran is weak.  It would have been in their best interest to say nothing at all.

That must have been the deluded Renfro feeding that info to the media.  Is she still around or has she died of some untreated VD?

LOL-She's still around & hasn't changed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:46:35 PM
Video of Joran van der Sloot in police custody in Peru (Part 1 of 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UkxOTRoZho

Video of Joran van der Sloot in police custody in Peru (Part 2 of 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BaGx5Q8Flk

Video of Joran van der Sloot in police custody in Peru (Part 3 of 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70OZ167aUY


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 10:49:44 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"

Agreed . Way to speak for the Planet of the Apes, Red.

Kudos to all of you here he was referring to- it counts!
B

Really extra enjoyable show this evening!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Shan1628 on June 06, 2010, 10:51:51 PM
Maybe I'm confused (nothing new) but wasn't there another man with Joran at the casino?  What happened to him??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blink34 on June 06, 2010, 10:54:26 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"

Agreed . Way to speak for the Planet of the Apes, Red.

Kudos to all of you here he was referring to- it counts!
B

Really extra enjoyable show this evening!

Agreed, Dana is the master, I am listening to Robin Sax now, she has such a way to drill the issues down.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:54:48 PM
Suspected killer Dutchman could benefit from honest confession considers criminal, Mario Amoreti
   
 | CPN RADIO - JUN 06 | The Citizen Dutchman Joran van Der Sloot, chief suspect in the murder of the young Stephany Flores, would enjoy the sincere confession, to receive a sentence below the statutory minimum, estimated the trial lawyer, Mario Amoreti.

At first hand CPN Radio said that if they determine that the alien committed murder, he could get out of prison after 8 or 10 years.

It recommended that the Peruvian justice system to assess very well the case.

http://www.cpnradio.pe/html/2010/06/06/3/9205.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 06, 2010, 10:55:12 PM
Do we know if Mama Sloot arrived in Peru yet?
I would hate to see Joran go to bed without his teddy bear.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 10:55:20 PM
Maybe I'm confused (nothing new) but wasn't there another man with Joran at the casino?  What happened to him??

If you are talking about in Peru, I don't think it was a friend or anything, I think it was just the a guy sitting at the same table.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 10:56:15 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"

Agreed . Way to speak for the Planet of the Apes, Red.

Kudos to all of you here he was referring to- it counts!
B

Really extra enjoyable show this evening!

Agreed, Dana is the master, I am listening to Robin Sax now, she has such a way to drill the issues down.


You aren't too bad yourself, Blink!  I enjoy listening to you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 10:56:38 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"

Agreed . Way to speak for the Planet of the Apes, Red.

Kudos to all of you here he was referring to- it counts!
B

Really extra enjoyable show this evening!

Agreed, Dana is the master, I am listening to Robin Sax now, she has such a way to drill the issues down.

Yes-I'm liking what she's saying.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 06, 2010, 10:56:44 PM
Do some of you remember the donkey in the dumpster?  :--( 

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/%E2%80%9Claw-donkey%E2%80%9D-could-be-applied-joran-van-der-sloot-060610.html
“Law Of The Donkey” Could be Applied to Joran van der Sloot
June 6, 2010
(http://www.gambling911.com/files/publisher/Law-of-the-Donkey.jpg)

Joran van der Sloot, accused of killing a young Peruvian woman and who has long been the lead suspect in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway back in 2005, could be facing some severe jail time if convicted in the slaying of Stephany Flores Ramirez in his Lima hotel room.

"Severe" may be an understatement.  The prisons in Peru are known to be among the most brutal in the world.

Here is one account of what happens to prisoners such as child molesters:

A neighbor of Cieneguilla suffered the worst shock which could have happened. His daughter, only two years old, was raped by a drug addict and drunk who during a party at the neighbor's house went to her room and raped her. The unfortunate was saved from being lynched by the locals, but it was reported and he went to Lurigancho. The case, incredibly, didn't appeared in the papers, and the rapist entered in prison with nobody knewing he was. The mother, hurt, because her daughter was unable to talk permanently because of the experience, went to Lurigancho and knelt before a 'daddy' ( which is like one of the bosses among the convicts). 'I want justice, no matter the price. " 'Do not kill him, make him suffer as he did to my daughter. " The lady gave, weekly, money hidden in fruit. For seven months, the damn was massacred and raped with sticks, iron bars and pepper that they put him in the rectum. Although the lady said not to kill him and only make him suffer just a night that had consumed a lot of weed and liquor, the daddy's assasins ran his hand and did it.

Joran could face the same fate.  He is, without any doubt, the most hated person in Peru right now.  The victim's father is a prominent Peruvian businessman and one time candidate for the Vice Presidency of that country.

The van der Sloot matter has attracted the attention of poker players and industry media like Gambling911.com because the young Dutchman was in Peru to watch the Latin American Poker Tour.  He is also known to play poker online.

One Peruvian poker player defined "The Law of the Donkey" and believes it will be applied to van der Sloot should he ultimately be sentenced.

"The law of the donkey is basically about getting raped by a lot of prisoners during a lot of nights," the individual relayed.

Jagajeet Chiba, Gambling911.com

Comments

Karma
Karma...it is a bitch!!! but thank GOD there is a universal LAW!!! What goes around comes around! What a idiot that fool Joran is!! In the Ass and I hope soon! I watched the video clip of him taking the keys to the hotel room and he has a look of.... I am going to KILL HER!!! He was smiling!!!!
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 22:39.

    * reply

Where does the donkey come
Where does the donkey come in?
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:22.

    * reply

Something Lost in the Translation
"Donkey" I suspect should have been translated into "Ass", as in getting sodomized. Still, "Law of the Donkey" has a nice ring to it.
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:14.

    * reply



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 06, 2010, 10:58:40 PM
Ricardo Flores, Flores Stephany murdered father: "There are bad people in this world"
 
Lima (Peru.com) .- The employer and Ricardo Flores racer, father of the murdered young Stephany Flores, allegedly at the hands of Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, said that we should teach our children "that there are bad people in this world .
 
"I think my mistake was not having taught my daughter that there was another world, the world of evil, at least I never felt that my daughter could know. We must teach our children that there is also bad people in this world, "he said in an interview with the program" Cuarto Poder ".
 
Flores said, heartbroken, that the lesson of all this is that "parents do not we allow our children to leave and return at 6, 7, 8 morning. You can not sleep while your children are in the street. We must be more careful with our children. "
 
On the other hand, the racer said he feels very quietly after the arrest in Chile and Peru the alleged transfer to the murderer of his daughter, the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot.
 
"Quiet, quiet lot, because I wanted in my heart that this man goes unpunished, to do what he did in Aruba," he said referring to the crime of American Natalee Holloway.
 
He said that when the suspect stepped Peru "I stayed calm because I know that the authorities will act with justice, my heart tells me that not only will clarify the crime of my daughter, but also for the other girl .

http://www.peru.com/noticias/lima20100606/100798/Ricardo-Flores-padre-de-asesinada-Stephany-Flores-Hay-gente-mala-en-este-mundo---


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 06, 2010, 11:00:01 PM
Maybe I'm confused (nothing new) but wasn't there another man with Joran at the casino?  What happened to him??
Elton Garcia (35) since May was staying at the hotel where it was found the body of Stephany Flores
Accompanied Albanian citizen Joran van der Sloot in poker competition

The Albanian citizen Elton Garcia (35) shared gaming table with the young Stephany Flores and his alleged murderer, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot at a poker international competition took place in our capital.

García, Uruguayan citizen, was staying since May in the same hotel where Van der Sloot and the girl was found Stephany. The police summoned as witnesses in Dirincri under investigation to clarify the murder occurred on Sunday.

According to his statement, Garcia knew nothing of the Netherlands since last weekend and decided to go in their search late Tuesday 1 June. That night I searched the Atlantic City hotel and then went to the hotel Tac where an employee told him in a room with Van der Sloot police had pulled the body of a young girl.

The police questioned him at the place and showed him a picture of the corpse which confirmed that it was Stephany. In addition, he said, recognized in the hotel security cameras to Joran entering the young Flores.

The alleged bid of $ 5,000 would have lost playing poker with Stephany, Eliot Garcia said nothing but said the daughter of Ricardo Flores won motorist S /. 2,000 in gambling in early May.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490019/ciudadano-albanes-acompano-joran-van-der-sloot-competencia-poker       justaMILF (http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490019/ciudadano-albanes-acompano-joran-van-der-sloot-competencia-poker justaMILF)





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 06, 2010, 11:00:50 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"

Agreed . Way to speak for the Planet of the Apes, Red.

Kudos to all of you here he was referring to- it counts!
B

Really extra enjoyable show this evening!

Thank you to all for standing for Justice for Natalee. I am so proud of all of you for being there for the people who need a voice the most.

Dana, fantastic show this evening.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 11:02:19 PM

GO RED!!

"cronyism, corruption, and the crap that went on down there"

Agreed . Way to speak for the Planet of the Apes, Red.

Kudos to all of you here he was referring to- it counts!
B

Really extra enjoyable show this evening!

Agreed, Dana is the master, I am listening to Robin Sax now, she has such a way to drill the issues down.


You aren't too bad yourself, Blink!  I enjoy listening to you.

Me too!  And appreciate the work you do!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 06, 2010, 11:02:51 PM
Goodnight, All.  Dana, great show as always.  Good seeing so many long lost monkeys back in the cage tonight.  Kudos, Red, for a job well done.  Waving good bye to Klaas.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 11:03:15 PM
AWESOME SHOW DANA!  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:03:39 PM
Goodnight, All.  Dana, great show as always.  Good seeing so many long lost monkeys back in the cage tonight.  Kudos, Red, for a job well done.  Waving good bye to Klaas.

Goodnight Tyler.  Good to see you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 11:04:20 PM
Goodnight, All.  Dana, great show as always.  Good seeing so many long lost monkeys back in the cage tonight.  Kudos, Red, for a job well done.  Waving good bye to Klaas.

Hi Tyler  - waving back :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 11:04:34 PM
Goodnight, All.  Dana, great show as always.  Good seeing so many long lost monkeys back in the cage tonight.  Kudos, Red, for a job well done.  Waving good bye to Klaas.

Goodnight Tyler!  I hope I'll see you back here soon!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 11:07:02 PM
Here's hoping they at least showed him the jumper cables today!

:monkeydance:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 11:07:41 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 06, 2010, 11:10:13 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

Thanks Magnolia!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 11:10:19 PM
Goodnight, All.  Dana, great show as always.  Good seeing so many long lost monkeys back in the cage tonight.  Kudos, Red, for a job well done.  Waving good bye to Klaas.

Goodnight Tyler!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 11:11:00 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 11:11:30 PM
Here's hoping they at least showed him the jumper cables today!

:monkeydance:

     Frankly, I don't think they'll do that.  This is the biggest international criminal case to ever hit Peru.  The World is watching.  That being the case, Joran will enjoy the absolute best that Peruvian justice has to offer.  Once convicted, imprisoned, and out of sight, though, he'll be subject to whatever rough justice may await him. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 06, 2010, 11:13:11 PM
Do some of you remember the donkey in the dumpster?  :--( 

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/%E2%80%9Claw-donkey%E2%80%9D-could-be-applied-joran-van-der-sloot-060610.html
“Law Of The Donkey” Could be Applied to Joran van der Sloot
June 6, 2010
(http://www.gambling911.com/files/publisher/Law-of-the-Donkey.jpg)

Joran van der Sloot, accused of killing a young Peruvian woman and who has long been the lead suspect in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway back in 2005, could be facing some severe jail time if convicted in the slaying of Stephany Flores Ramirez in his Lima hotel room.

"Severe" may be an understatement.  The prisons in Peru are known to be among the most brutal in the world.

Here is one account of what happens to prisoners such as child molesters:

A neighbor of Cieneguilla suffered the worst shock which could have happened. His daughter, only two years old, was raped by a drug addict and drunk who during a party at the neighbor's house went to her room and raped her. The unfortunate was saved from being lynched by the locals, but it was reported and he went to Lurigancho. The case, incredibly, didn't appeared in the papers, and the rapist entered in prison with nobody knewing he was. The mother, hurt, because her daughter was unable to talk permanently because of the experience, went to Lurigancho and knelt before a 'daddy' ( which is like one of the bosses among the convicts). 'I want justice, no matter the price. " 'Do not kill him, make him suffer as he did to my daughter. " The lady gave, weekly, money hidden in fruit. For seven months, the damn was massacred and raped with sticks, iron bars and pepper that they put him in the rectum. Although the lady said not to kill him and only make him suffer just a night that had consumed a lot of weed and liquor, the daddy's assasins ran his hand and did it.

Joran could face the same fate.  He is, without any doubt, the most hated person in Peru right now.  The victim's father is a prominent Peruvian businessman and one time candidate for the Vice Presidency of that country.

The van der Sloot matter has attracted the attention of poker players and industry media like Gambling911.com because the young Dutchman was in Peru to watch the Latin American Poker Tour.  He is also known to play poker online.

One Peruvian poker player defined "The Law of the Donkey" and believes it will be applied to van der Sloot should he ultimately be sentenced.

"The law of the donkey is basically about getting raped by a lot of prisoners during a lot of nights," the individual relayed.

Jagajeet Chiba, Gambling911.com

Comments

Karma
Karma...it is a bitch!!! but thank GOD there is a universal LAW!!! What goes around comes around! What a idiot that fool Joran is!! In the Ass and I hope soon! I watched the video clip of him taking the keys to the hotel room and he has a look of.... I am going to KILL HER!!! He was smiling!!!!
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 22:39.

    * reply

Where does the donkey come
Where does the donkey come in?
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:22.

    * reply

Something Lost in the Translation
"Donkey" I suspect should have been translated into "Ass", as in getting sodomized. Still, "Law of the Donkey" has a nice ring to it.
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:14.

    * reply


Well, I don't have much, but would be willing to give money to support the 'Law Of The Donkey'.
Should we start a fund to donate for such?
Do we know any Peruvians that would be willing to take fruit in?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:13:33 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 11:14:16 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 06, 2010, 11:16:49 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 11:17:38 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.

     They won't -- at least not yet.  It's not in their interest to do that right now.  Not currently charged with any crime, opening their mouths can only invite trouble.  If they were facing serious criminal prosecution, however, it would be a different story. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 11:18:54 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.


What have they got to loose?  I think it is a matter of telling before he does.  They are never
going to get a dime out of Dr. Phil.   They, also, are toast.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 11:19:47 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?

     It COULD be.  That would depend on how committed the new Aruban authorities are to cleaning up all the corruption.  This could be their golden opportunity. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 11:20:32 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 

It's a whole boatload of folks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:22:06 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.

     They won't -- at least not yet.  It's not in their interest to do that right now.  Not currently charged with any crime, opening their mouths can only invite trouble.  If they were facing serious criminal prosecution, however, it would be a different story. 

This is true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 11:26:30 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?

     It COULD be.  That would depend on how committed the new Aruban authorities are to cleaning up all the corruption.  This could be their golden opportunity. 

When you consider the FACT that Jan Van der Straaten has been appointed to not one, but TWO government positions since the new Aruban authorities have taken office; it doesn't seem to me they're very concerned with cleaning up the corruption.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 11:27:59 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.


What have they got to loose?  I think it is a matter of telling before he does.  They are never
going to get a dime out of Dr. Phil.   They, also, are toast.

I honestly don't think they have the sense to come in out of the rain.  The train of Fate is gonna run right over them I think.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 11:29:45 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?

     It COULD be.  That would depend on how committed the new Aruban authorities are to cleaning up all the corruption.  This could be their golden opportunity. 

When you consider the FACT that Jan Van der Straaten has been appointed to not one, but TWO government positions since the new Aruban authorities have taken office; it doesn't seem to me they're very concerned with cleaning up the corruption.

JMO


     I was unaware of this.  Given recent events in Peru, however, perhaps Van der Straaten has become an embarassment they'd rather dispense with. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 11:31:25 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?

     It COULD be.  That would depend on how committed the new Aruban authorities are to cleaning up all the corruption.  This could be their golden opportunity. 

When you consider the FACT that Jan Van der Straaten has been appointed to not one, but TWO government positions since the new Aruban authorities have taken office; it doesn't seem to me they're very concerned with cleaning up the corruption.

JMO



Mike Eman and company saw no need to clean up.  They were content to just go with the flow and
let the talk die down until all of the new developments.  Maybe Van der Stratten should be replaced.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 06, 2010, 11:31:53 PM
Geraldo just said that when Joran left the hotel he did not ask the front desk for his passport and left it there.  If he would have asked for his passport the hotel would have known he was leaving and would have gone to the room to clean it.

Why would you need to leave your passport at the front desk?  I've never heard of that. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe he asked them to lock it in their safe.

From the many articles I've read...in Aruba a lot of tourists lose their passports when their bags are taken by robbers, or their rooms are robbed.  It's probably not a bad idea at all to have it locked up in a safe somewhere, just in case you're robbed.

They stated his passport was kept until he was checking out and the room was clean, etc.......it was not a luxury hotel and in light of the extensive video cams, they must have their fair share of skip-out's and damages to rooms. In that regard retaining passports makes sense.

Ah, ok.  Back in my traveling days I've never had them keep a passport but I've also never stayed in a place like a hostil (sp)

When we were in Italy in April a gypsy woman tried to heist the passport of a friend who was with us on the trip as we walked . BAD MISTAKE...............this was attempted right next to someone who just returned from Iraq and full time military on leave............Can you say broken hand?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 06, 2010, 11:33:05 PM
And so much for "transparency" too!

They supposedly conduct an investigation into Jan Van der Straaten's role in the first 10 days of the Natalee Holloway investigation, claim that the investigation is complete, but never reveal any results?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:35:33 PM
Hello Greta this is Deepak. Boy do I have a story for you. ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 11:36:38 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?

     It COULD be.  That would depend on how committed the new Aruban authorities are to cleaning up all the corruption.  This could be their golden opportunity. 

When you consider the FACT that Jan Van der Straaten has been appointed to not one, but TWO government positions since the new Aruban authorities have taken office; it doesn't seem to me they're very concerned with cleaning up the corruption.

JMO


I don't think so either, and besides, that would mean admitting to the world that the 'cowboys' were right. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:36:51 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?

     It COULD be.  That would depend on how committed the new Aruban authorities are to cleaning up all the corruption.  This could be their golden opportunity. 

When you consider the FACT that Jan Van der Straaten has been appointed to not one, but TWO government positions since the new Aruban authorities have taken office; it doesn't seem to me they're very concerned with cleaning up the corruption.

JMO


     I was unaware of this.  Given recent events in Peru, however, perhaps Van der Straaten has become an embarassment they'd rather dispense with. 

It all started with Van der Straaten.  Jug even mentioned it last night on Geraldo.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wreck on June 06, 2010, 11:37:11 PM
Just catching up again..........  I know I've said it a thousand times (because it has ALWAYS made sense) but, surely the Kalpoes will come out now and spill the beans. If not, they CERTAINLY have the wrong counsel.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 06, 2010, 11:38:05 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would have already been in touch with the FBI trying to play "lets make a deal" BEFORE are thrown to the wolves by Joran. He will try to put the blame on them for Natalie. If they wait until he squeals on them it will be too late. The only hope they have is to get the FBI involved fast.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 06, 2010, 11:38:34 PM
And so much for "transparency" too!

They supposedly conduct an investigation into Jan Van der Straaten's role in the first 10 days of the Natalee Holloway investigation, claim that the investigation is complete, but never reveal any results?

And they have been sitting on the rusults of the Van der Straaten investigation since....what...January?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:39:00 PM
And so much for "transparency" too!

They supposedly conduct an investigation into Jan Van der Straaten's role in the first 10 days of the Natalee Holloway investigation, claim that the investigation is complete, but never reveal any results?

They will say they were conducting an investigation and that's why they arrested the two security guards.  That nitwit Julia Renfro even said it on Nancy Grace the other night.  I think she believes her own lies.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 11:39:44 PM
Hello Greta this is Deepak. Boy do I have a story for you. ;)

LOL  She'd prolly have cardiac arrest.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:41:53 PM
Hello Greta this is Deepak. Boy do I have a story for you. ;)

LOL  She'd prolly have cardiac arrest.

And she will say Deepak why you lie to momma.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 11:42:03 PM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.


Another thing that Jossy said is that some in Aruba are scared and beginning to open
their eyes.....something they refused to do before.

     They SHOULD be frighteded.  Police, prosecutors, and various accomplices to the crime and/or cover-up need to be brought to justice. 
Is the house of cards ready to crumble?

     It COULD be.  That would depend on how committed the new Aruban authorities are to cleaning up all the corruption.  This could be their golden opportunity. 

This is their last opportunity.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 06, 2010, 11:42:57 PM
Hello Greta this is Deepak. Boy do I have a story for you. ;)

LOL  She'd prolly have cardiac arrest.

And she will say Deepak why you lie to momma.

LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 06, 2010, 11:44:38 PM
What the Kalpoes do have in their favor is that Joran has lied so many times.  Even Hans Mos said something to the effect you can't believe what he says and he was the prosecutor at the time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SteveDinMD on June 06, 2010, 11:56:31 PM
What the Kalpoes do have in their favor is that Joran has lied so many times.  Even Hans Mos said something to the effect you can't believe what he says and he was the prosecutor at the time.

     This is exactly right.  Unless Joran has access to independent, corroborating evidence, any unsubstantiated allegations he might direct agains the Kalpoes are unlikely to prove decisive. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 06, 2010, 11:57:56 PM
And so much for "transparency" too!

They supposedly conduct an investigation into Jan Van der Straaten's role in the first 10 days of the Natalee Holloway investigation, claim that the investigation is complete, but never reveal any results?

They will say they were conducting an investigation and that's why they arrested the two security guards.  That nitwit Julia Renfro even said it on Nancy Grace the other night.  I think she believes her own lies.

Weren't
And so much for "transparency" too!

They supposedly conduct an investigation into Jan Van der Straaten's role in the first 10 days of the Natalee Holloway investigation, claim that the investigation is complete, but never reveal any results?

They will say they were conducting an investigation and that's why they arrested the two security guards.  That nitwit Julia Renfro even said it on Nancy Grace the other night.  I think she believes her own lies.


Weren't those the same two security guards who "committed suicide" right afterward.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 12:01:36 AM
And so much for "transparency" too!

They supposedly conduct an investigation into Jan Van der Straaten's role in the first 10 days of the Natalee Holloway investigation, claim that the investigation is complete, but never reveal any results?

They will say they were conducting an investigation and that's why they arrested the two security guards.  That nitwit Julia Renfro even said it on Nancy Grace the other night.  I think she believes her own lies.

Weren't
And so much for "transparency" too!

They supposedly conduct an investigation into Jan Van der Straaten's role in the first 10 days of the Natalee Holloway investigation, claim that the investigation is complete, but never reveal any results?

They will say they were conducting an investigation and that's why they arrested the two security guards.  That nitwit Julia Renfro even said it on Nancy Grace the other night.  I think she believes her own lies.


Weren't those the same two security guards who "committed suicide" right afterward.

No. They are both alive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 12:02:20 AM
hi monkeys, i would like to know if the monster meet other girls during his two weeks stay in lima.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 12:03:35 AM
Security guards were Antonius Mickey Johns and Abraham Alfred Jones.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 12:06:54 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments about my chat room questions during the Steph Watts show.  For those who weren't listening...my questions were not acknowledged by anyone that could have answered them.  

I'd typed a whole big long response about it while the threads were changing, so I lost it.  I'm not typing it all over again!  At least not until after I finish listening to Dana, and take a long hot shower.  

THANK YOU SO MUCH Sleuth for the recap of Steph's show!  

Other than what Dave said, God bless him, I got lost in all the confusion..lol.  Of course when I started reading your transcription it started coming back to me.  I'm going to try to listen to it again later.

I certainly appreciate Steph bringing all the guests on for us to hear, but he could really take some lessons from Dana.

Dana's the BEST!  :monkeyheart:



Try hitting 'backspace' or undo, it might bring what you wrote back up.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 12:10:34 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/happycouplenot.png)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 12:12:51 AM
Former attorney questioned Joran van der Sloot tests involving the murder of Stephany Dutchman Flores (with video)

Joseph Tacopina hinted that a third person would be responsible for murder. Also expressed its surprise that the body has been found in the room just three days after the crime

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" Asked the renowned lawyer Joseph Tacopina to question one of the strongest proofs that involve the citizen Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the murder of the young Stephany Flores occurred on Sunday 30 May.

Joseph Tacopina, who successfully defended Van der Sloot in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl five years ago, referred to the fact that the Dutchman admitted with Stephany Flores Tac Miraflores hotel early 30 May, but was only hours later, according to security video showed the accommodation.

Thus, the lawyer also defended the late King of Pop Michael Jackson hinted that a third person would be responsible for crime.

In a telephone conversation from New York with the TV program "Panorama", Joseph Tacopina also expressed surprise at the time that passed between the alleged day of the murder and the discovery of the body of Stephany.

More soon ....

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490841/ex-abogado-joran-cuestiona-pruebas-que-involucran-holandes-asesinato-stephany

Yes, and this third person sent Joran out for a cup of coffee and said, 'Get one for yourself while you are at it.'

<eye roll>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 12:22:38 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments about my chat room questions during the Steph Watts show.  For those who weren't listening...my questions were not acknowledged by anyone that could have answered them.  

I'd typed a whole big long response about it while the threads were changing, so I lost it.  I'm not typing it all over again!  At least not until after I finish listening to Dana, and take a long hot shower.  

THANK YOU SO MUCH Sleuth for the recap of Steph's show!  

Other than what Dave said, God bless him, I got lost in all the confusion..lol.  Of course when I started reading your transcription it started coming back to me.  I'm going to try to listen to it again later.

I certainly appreciate Steph bringing all the guests on for us to hear, but he could really take some lessons from Dana.

Dana's the BEST!  :monkeyheart:



Try hitting 'backspace' or undo, it might bring what you wrote back up.


Here is what I do when I have a long post.  I type it in Miscrsoft Word and then I copy and paste it in a post.  If the forum all of a sudden isn't working when you go to post it you will still have what you typed in word.  You don't have to save the document in word.  Or if I am typing it in a post before I hit post I highlight it and I say copy.  This way it has my the last thing I copied in memory so I can paste it again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 12:26:06 AM
He`s already on to a 3rd person? When a second one doesn`t even exist?

He`s an embarrassment to himself, his family, his country.

Joe is in the JW category. It`s getting to where I won`t even type his name.

Acknowledging the man is even alive is a mistake.

How do you make a clown go away?

Ignore him to death.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 12:31:06 AM
Video of Joran van der Sloot in police custody in Peru (Part 1 of 3)

http://www.youtube.com/v/7UkxOTRoZho&hl=en_GB&fs=1&

OMG, the red hair in this one just kills me.  Instead of blending in, he sure sticks out.  I wonder how far he went with it?  Do you think the shutters match the roof?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 12:34:23 AM
ROFLMAO Bearly!!!!!

I`ve always heard it as: Do the drapes match the carpet?

....but I think I like yours better.

Hair bleach would burn his pecker off.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 12:34:31 AM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would have already been in touch with the FBI trying to play "lets make a deal" BEFORE are thrown to the wolves by Joran. He will try to put the blame on them for Natalie. If they wait until he squeals on them it will be too late. The only hope they have is to get the FBI involved fast.

Nah, at this point, Joran can't throw anyone under the bus. If he could have thrown 2K under, it would have been long ago.

I wouldn't be surprised, however, if Joran tries to roll over his dead papa.

I don't believe these latest proposed searches will amount to anything, and I am sorry Dave and Tim are even making the effort.

GLENDA is saying Joran gave the location of Natalee's body in April. Is this the information that the U.S. Attorney's office said was fraudulent? Or some other divine secret Joran whispered into only Julia's ear?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 12:34:37 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 12:35:48 AM
Does anyone know if a "date rape drug" has a hypnotic effect to where the user can pretty much be commanded to do anything? 

If so, that would account for the odd interaction between Joran and Stephany in the video at the hostel...earlier discussion was that it was odd that she just held her head down and there was no conversation going on between them. 




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 12:40:03 AM
No, Puzzler; that drug does not have that effect.  (Good thought, though.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 12:40:23 AM
If he goes to Lurigancho prison in Lima, he won't live long unless his family can bribe the right people to keep him alive and fed. Lurigancho is one of the worst prisons in the world, filthy, full of people with AIDS and TB, and there are no guards inside. The prisoners run the place, and they don't like rich white kids, especially those who kill Peruvian citizens. He may actually go there to await trial, and if so, he won't make it very long. Justice will be served.

 The dutchman will be the belle of the ball in that nasty prison after he is convicted. He can get any attorney he wants they are not going to get him out of this one.

I read that at the present time, 137 Dutch citizens are rotting in Peruvian prisons so for Aruba "officials" to think they can help him now is ludicrous.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 12:43:01 AM
ROFLMAO Bearly!!!!!

I`ve always heard it as: Do the drapes match the carpet?

....but I think I like yours better.

Hair bleach would burn his pecker off.

I saw it in the Thailand picture, he wouldn't need a whole lot of bleach to burn that off.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 12:43:24 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 12:45:37 AM
We are still getting alot of conflicting information which I am sure will be cleared up as the investigation unfolds.  I think Peru will be very forthcoming with it and if they are not, the family of Stephany Flores will be and we will know much more than we do at this point.

But I do think that Peru has more than enough evidence for a conviction.  So they do not need for Joran to make a deal.  Joran is the one who needs the deal.  And he is not in much of a position to ask for one.  I'd like to see him get one of the harsher, high-altitude, cold prisons with no electricity, etc. 

So perhaps he will be forthcoming with the truth about Natalee in order to avoid the worst if the jails.  Otherwise, he is going to die in a foreign prison under very harsh circumstances.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 12:45:38 AM
Why in the world would the Aruban officials want to help him?! Thanks for the information, though, Turbothink.  Oh, and as for the worries that he will be sent back to the Netherlands (I've read in other areas)--that's never going to happen. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 12:46:44 AM
Hi, Carpe!!  Well, if he doesn't qualify for their death sentence, who does?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 12:46:45 AM
Video of Joran van der Sloot in police custody in Peru (Part 1 of 3)

http://www.youtube.com/v/7UkxOTRoZho&hl=en_GB&fs=1&

OMG, the red hair in this one just kills me.  Instead of blending in, he sure sticks out.  I wonder how far he went with it?  Do you think the shutters match the roof?



Bearly, lolol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 12:48:52 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

I believe they do but not for murder, I think it was just for treason or something like that.  I'll have to check.  I think they are talking about 35 years for Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 12:50:15 AM
Then I just hope everyone is right about the conditions he'll suffer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 12:50:44 AM
Hi, Carpe!!  Well, if he doesn't qualify for their death sentence, who does?

Spies? International terrorists?

Dunno. I feel the same way. Joran deserves death. He`s a tsunami of human pain and suffering.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 12:51:17 AM
Bearly,

In one of the photos of Joran clutching his pants that are falling off, you can see the top of the shutters (horrors!) and they did not get the new coat of paint that the roof did.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 12:53:51 AM
Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:55:13 AM
Stephany father expects more tests

Ricardo Flores, the girl's father died, Stephany Flores, said he has great faith that the police find more evidence on the laptop of Joran van der Sloot, and further proves his guilt in the crime. View video

"The computer is here in Lima, was brought from Chile, and is being examined by police. Ahi could find a thousand things of many other possible crimes because the subject has a profile of mass murderer" he said.

Despondent Flores said his daughter began researching the Internet and saw much of the profile of the Netherlands now under arrest, accused of the murder of Stephany.

He noted that there are many similarities between the death of his daughter, and another young woman murdered in Aruba, Natalee Holloway, as both knew what the subject in a casino one day and died May 30.

"I have great faith in God that he's computer, which has been requisitioned, many things will appear," he said.

"The energy I have is giving me my daughter"

The girl's father said that in these hard times why your family is suffering, he feels his daughter is present and gives strength to continue and to do justice not only for herself, but also by the other girl who was murdered in Aruba .

He said that at first, after the disappearance of Stephany, was thought to be a kidnapping, but when the hours passed and not receiving any calls for ransom, it was thought the worst.

"We thought it was a kidnapping because all marked that, but was diluted (...) because we spent hours calling and stress, grief, were horrible," she said.

He said that to be familiar with the case of her daughter, stayed up until the Dutchman arrived in Peru, and then took a pill to relax.

It will travel with his family

He said that when he saw the capture of the Dutchman felt a lot of peace, because her family did not want this man to continue doing what he did in Aruba and was released or escape. "

"My heart tells me to be clear not only the crime of my daughter, but that girl that her family has five years of suffering. I know the girl's father Holloway has sent condolences for videos and I hope they too can find the peace they need, "he said.


He also announced that it would travel with his family to face the enormous loss of his daughter, and asked the press not to be disturbed or called.


http://www.larepublica.pe/el-asesinato-de-stephany/06/06/2010/padre-de-stephany-espera-que-hallen-mas-pruebas-en-laptop-de-hol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 12:55:57 AM
cecilita - hello, I am not the best to answer you, but no, I don't think we have heard of any other girls with Joran in Peru. But if Joran was slipping drugs (date rape drugs - roofies?) in drinks, there might be someone there who doesn't even remember.

darleen - hello again! I think there's speculation that (a) Stephany's father, in his compassion for Natalee's family, might agree to Joran serving his sentence in The Netherlands, IF (b) Joran tells where Natalee's remains are. (They better watch the fine print on that one, though - Joran's "in the ocean" just can't be allowed to suffice. At whose expense would that recovery be, and how long before Aruba gets its hands into it?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 12:57:02 AM
Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.


According to Glenda, she knows the exact place because she said that there is now a house on the spot.

She cannot explain however, why he was given more money in May after telling where Nat was in April.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 12:57:16 AM
Bearly,

In one of the photos of Joran clutching his pants that are falling off, you can see the top of the shutters (horrors!) and they did not get the new coat of paint that the roof did.

hahaha  Even he wouldn't touch that thing!

You mean the one where he is checking to make sure they didn't lose his luggage.

He should have painted the shutters, he might have gotten away with it.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 12:59:47 AM
Mon, 2010-06-07 00:30.

By: Frank Bajak, The Associated Press

LIMA, Peru - Joran van der Sloot will spend all week at criminal police headquarters being questioned in the death of a 21-year-old Lima woman and has asked to be able to hire his own lawyer, authorities said Sunday.

The Dutchman, who is also the prime suspect in U.S. teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba, is being held in a seventh-floor cell with a bunk bed and blanket and gets three hot meals a day, said Maj. Jose Gamboa, spokesman for the Peruvian national police.

Van der Sloot is suspected in the May 30 killing — five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance — of Stephany Flores, a business student who police say he met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video Saturday taken by security cameras at the hotel where van der Sloot had been staying since arriving from Colombia on May 14. It shows the two entering van der Sloot's room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

The woman's battered body was found on the room's floor more than two days later, her neck broken.

"The only possessions of my daughter they found were her empty wallet and her cellphone," her father, circus empresario Ricardo Flores, said in TV interview Sunday night. "There wasn't a peso in her wallet."

Van der Sloot crossed into Chile on Monday, where he was arrested three days later.

In video taken of the husky 22-year-old Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police search van der Sloot's belongings in his presence.

They pull out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency. Van der Sloot tells police the money includes Thai, Cambodian and Bolivian currency. He is asked for credit cards and documents and appears to say — his Spanish is very rudimentary — that they are in a hotel room back in Chile.

Peru's chief homicide investigator, Col. Miguel Canlla, would neither confirm nor deny a Sunday report in the Lima newspaper El Comercio that van der Sloot told his Peruvian questioners he was innocent of the Flores killing.

"I don't know where that information came from," Canlla told The Associated Press. "We are still in the investigative stage."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: spooky112483 on June 07, 2010, 12:59:51 AM
P.S.  Dana, enjoyed listening to your program.  You are really quite the professional.
OMG I'm like 4 hours behind but hey Tylergal! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 01:00:36 AM
Stephany's father seems like a nice man.  I think he's too smart to be taken advantage of by that murderer; I agree with you Ms.Marple, in the ocean won't suffice.

Magnolia, hello!  If Glenda knows where Natalee's body is, she ought to be arrested for sure.  Obstructing justice, withholding evidence.  Not to mention a total lack of morals.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 01:02:14 AM
Why in the world would the Aruban officials want to help him?! Thanks for the information, though, Turbothink.  Oh, and as for the worries that he will be sent back to the Netherlands (I've read in other areas)--that's never going to happen.  

IMO, There are some who helped in the cover-up of Natalie's case who by now are very afraid at this point that he will give up the Who, What, When,Why & How it happened.
If the ones I think are responsible are............it could bring down a large portion of their "officials" rapidly if all this comes out.

Watch out Joran (slime bag) for Aruba sent lawyers bearing gifts.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 01:04:00 AM
Stephany father expects more tests

Ricardo Flores, the girl's father died, Stephany Flores, said he has great faith that the police find more evidence on the laptop of Joran van der Sloot, and further proves his guilt in the crime. View video

"The computer is here in Lima, was brought from Chile, and is being examined by police. Ahi could find a thousand things of many other possible crimes because the subject has a profile of mass murderer" he said.

Despondent Flores said his daughter began researching the Internet and saw much of the profile of the Netherlands now under arrest, accused of the murder of Stephany.

He noted that there are many similarities between the death of his daughter, and another young woman murdered in Aruba, Natalee Holloway, as both knew what the subject in a casino one day and died May 30.

"I have great faith in God that he's computer, which has been requisitioned, many things will appear," he said.

"The energy I have is giving me my daughter"

The girl's father said that in these hard times why your family is suffering, he feels his daughter is present and gives strength to continue and to do justice not only for herself, but also by the other girl who was murdered in Aruba .

He said that at first, after the disappearance of Stephany, was thought to be a kidnapping, but when the hours passed and not receiving any calls for ransom, it was thought the worst.

"We thought it was a kidnapping because all marked that, but was diluted (...) because we spent hours calling and stress, grief, were horrible," she said.

He said that to be familiar with the case of her daughter, stayed up until the Dutchman arrived in Peru, and then took a pill to relax.

It will travel with his family

He said that when he saw the capture of the Dutchman felt a lot of peace, because her family did not want this man to continue doing what he did in Aruba and was released or escape. "

"My heart tells me to be clear not only the crime of my daughter, but that girl that her family has five years of suffering. I know the girl's father Holloway has sent condolences for videos and I hope they too can find the peace they need, "he said.


He also announced that it would travel with his family to face the enormous loss of his daughter, and asked the press not to be disturbed or called.


http://www.larepublica.pe/el-asesinato-de-stephany/06/06/2010/padre-de-stephany-espera-que-hallen-mas-pruebas-en-laptop-de-hol

Stephany's Dad always brings tears to my eyes.  That he can remain focused with all that is happening around him is a miracle.

I would think Joran would have learned his lesson in Aruba about his computer.  Don't put anything on it you don't want traced.  But, I was speaking with Carpe in the last thread, not realizing it was closed, and said, I think Joran, like Casey Anthony, lives 10 minutes at a time.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 01:07:02 AM
You're probably right about that, Turbothink.  I hope there's nothing that can help them now, though.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 01:12:48 AM
Bearly - Absolutely. He and Casey are so sloppy - yet believe they are SLICK.

It`s just ridiculous. Long term thinking - doesn`t exist. Addict mentality. Need it

now. Consume it now. Suck it dry. Move on to next fix.

---

Also - on that `Law of the Donkey` thingie...

Have you ever seen the size of a donkey`s toot chute?

It could swallow Manhattan. Just a thought.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 01:13:33 AM
Thanks for the information.  Nice seeing y'all.  Good night.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:15:18 AM
Stephany Flores would have spent hours with Van der Slot one day before his assassination
June 7, 2010 • 00:40

Ricardo Flores, father of murdered teenager Stephany Flores, said his daughter would have spent hours with his alleged murderer Joran van der Slot, a day before her death.


In an interview on "The Sniper", said the videos from security cameras Atlantic City casino, you would see her daughter on Friday 29 with Van der Slot playing poker at a table in the establishment, leaving the possibility they have agreed to meet again on Saturday at the site.
Another time, Ricardo Flores said the possibility that your child has been drugged by Van der Slot is quite believable after seeing the pictures of the hotel security cameras that went after playing in the casino.

"I think that may have been drugged when leaving the casino, possibly in the truck road to the hotel because the hotel images in the footsteps of my daughter looked like a man without a will, walking in a strange way."

About the singer Roberto Blades statements saying he had alerted the casino security how dangerous Van der Slot, Flores noted that it would be just purely promotional campaign of the singer.

"That singer just wants to hold onto this for publicity, I do not think the hotel was negligent for leaving him enter, I know Omar Macci and has a great quality of person, helped me by providing the video security cameras .

Finally he said, trust the Peruvian justice system to resolve the case as the evidence to incriminate Van der Slot are fairly clear.

http://www.terra.com.pe/noticias/noticias/act2363332/stephany-flores-habria-pasado-horas-junto-van-der-slot-dia-antes-su-asesinato.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 01:17:04 AM
Nite Darleen - nice having you back!  Maybe I should invite Wonderwoman back too, LOLOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:17:33 AM
The face of Joran van der Sloot is the perpetrator of an individual
The expert in face reading Rosa Maria Cifuentes analyzed the defendant's death and Stephany Flores also described as a manipulator

Joran van der Sloot is a manipulative person and appeared to have someone who likes to give orders and take over everything, considered the expert analysis of faces, Rosa Maria Cifuentes.

"That's the trait of an individual abuser, often dependent-affective looking for girls or lacking in affection for him conquer and dominate the relationship," he said when analyzing the face of the suspect in the death of young Stephany Flores, on 30 May.

The length of the mouth, lips and teeth of the Dutchman reinforce the great power of manipulation and attracting the opposite sex, according to Cifuentes.

This is what would have been noticed both in Stephany Flores as Natalee Holloway, the other alleged victim of Van der Sloot, who is also involved in procurement in Thailand.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490842/rostro-joran-van-der-sloot-individuo-maltratador?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:19:25 AM
Peru ta garantiza huicio husto den caso di Joran
Publication: Dialuna, 7 Juni 2010. Categoria: General

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Informacion cu nos ta haya for di Lima ta indica cu na Peru ta garantiza cu e sospechoso den caso di asesinato di Stephany Flores, esta Joran van der Sloot, ta bay haya un huicio husto. Esaki segun Minister di asuntonan interior, Octavio Salazar, Diasabra. E Minister a gradici tambe e autoridadnan Chileno pa e detencion rapido di e Hulandes di 22 aña, kende Diadomingo 30 di Mei lo a asesina Stephany. E mucha muher lo a haya golpinan pisa riba su cabez, como tambe un nek kibra.
Van der Sloot a desmenti cu el a mata e mucha muher. Hende a wak Joran den casino cu e mucha muher y grabacionnan di e hotel a mustra con Joran y e mucha muher a drenta e camber, despues di cual Joran su so a bandona e hotel.

Den camber di Joran e cupra sin bida di Flores a worde haya. Ta worde bisa cu si oficialmente Joran worde acusa di asesinato, e caso lo por dura alrededor di 1 aña.

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/peru-ta-garantiza-huicio-husto-den-caso-di-joran/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:20:10 AM
Detencion preventivo di Joran prolonga
Publication: Dialuna, 7 Juni 2010. Categoria: General

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Detencion preventivo di Joran van der Sloot a worde prolonga cu 7 dia.
Esaki segun medionan di comunicacion Peruano Diasabra anochi. Normalmente ta dentro di 24 ora mester determina kico ta bay sosode cu un sospechoso, despues di cual e sospechoso mester bandona e cel di polis. E fiscal sinembargo a pidi pa prolonga e periodo aki cu 7 dia. Un huez Peruano a honra e peticion aki.
Si e Hulandes worde haya culpable pa asesinato riba e mucha muher di 21 aña, e por haya entre 15 cu 35 aña di castigo.

Un castigo pa robo y asesinato por dune un castigo di bida. Esaki segun e specialista den ley penal Mario Amoreti a conta ANP Diasabra.

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/detencion-preventivo-di-joran-prolonga/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 01:20:19 AM
Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.


According to Glenda, she knows the exact place because she said that there is now a house on the spot.

She cannot explain however, why he was given more money in May after telling where Nat was in April.

She must be thinking of when she was in the Wizard of Oz, a witch named Glenda and a house falling down that now has a body under it.  I think she must have messed up her medication again.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 01:23:56 AM
cecilita - hello, I am not the best to answer you, but no, I don't think we have heard of any other girls with Joran in Peru. But if Joran was slipping drugs (date rape drugs - roofies?) in drinks, there might be someone there who doesn't even remember.

darleen - hello again! I think there's speculation that (a) Stephany's father, in his compassion for Natalee's family, might agree to Joran serving his sentence in The Netherlands, IF (b) Joran tells where Natalee's remains are. (They better watch the fine print on that one, though - Joran's "in the ocean" just can't be allowed to suffice. At whose expense would that recovery be, and how long before Aruba gets its hands into it?)

Wow!  I didn't know it was even being considered for Joran to serve his sentence in The Netherlands!  I thought any negotiations would only be for a better prison within Peru.  In the end this is likely a decision the three judge panel will make anyway but I do not want Joran to be able to go back to The NL at all.  They will release him or let him live in posh surroundings.

I hope he not only serves any sentence he receives in Peru but also in the high-altitude prisons where it is bitterly cold and has no heat, electricity for the prisoners and they have to buy their own food if they have enough to eat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:34:30 AM
Murderer gets header wall
 
 
According to facial features such as eyebrows, pointed nose and deep eyes, Dutchman Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (23) is a smart, cold and manipulative. "I refuse to talk," was all he said Dirincri yesterday when detectives were preparing to question him. Its aim would be to structure a defense that allowed to contradict the police investigation.

Yesterday it was learned that he was stunned because it butted against one wall of the elevator that led to the eighth floor of the Dirincri, where it occupies a maximum security cell, guarded by four soldiers who did not lose sight. It was learned that they fear being killed or committing suicide.

"The Sabbath was made several inquiries at the offices of Homicide and Criminal. There he saw a tattoo on the left chest with the phrase: 'No problem' in Thai language," said one agent.
It was learned that the laptop was found to be delivered to the Division of High Technology for testing. The spokesman added that "to calm him, a police officer patted him and said, 'Ya, quiet, quiet."


About 9 pm, the prosecutor of the Prosecutor 40, detectives and the public defender met to pick the statement abroad. "It was learned that the detainee was going to say he was innocent and uphold it. But it was thwarted when his attorney stated that he was induced to provide answers that he did not want", he referred to a judicial source.

Around midnight, Joran was taken to a cell on the eighth floor. "It is next to another inmate for murder. The order is that at no time be alone," the informant.

He ate fried chicken
Yesterday morning, the European coffee and breakfast bread. Meanwhile, homicide detectives awaited the arrival of the public defender and translator Maurice Steins, given by the Consortium of Legal Translators.

At noon, Joran van der Sloot Andean Potatoes lunch and fried chicken with rice and potatoes, plus emollient menu that was distributed to all police officers Dirincri.

Peruvian police also coordinates with similar Aruba.

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-06/ontractualidad1093554.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 01:36:16 AM
No, Puzzler; that drug does not have that effect.  (Good thought, though.)

Thanks.

Okay...the drug is a muscle relaxer....a light dosage...? maybe why she had her head hung down in the video while Joran was getting the keys and even in the walk to the room?

She didn't have her head up and they weren't talking...maybe she was in a relaxed state and that's why she wasn't holding her head up.

She wasn't stumbling, etc., not that bad...but maybe relaxed.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:37:20 AM
Joran ta desea un abogado di oficio y un traductor
Publication: Dialuna, 7 Juni 2010. Categoria: General

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Joran van der Sloot kende ta worde sospecha di a asesina e Peruana Stephany Flores, kier worde apunta un abogado Peruano, pero tambe un traductor pa un mihor comunicacion. Durante su interogacion Diasabra atardi, e no kier a duna contesta riba e preguntanan di polis, tocante morto di e mucha muher, pasobra e tabata hopi cansa di e viahe di Chile pa Peru. Segun e corant Peruano ‘Peru 21’, Joran lo a declara cu na ningun momento el a worde deteni na Chile, sino cu el a entrega su mes na polis, pasobra e tabata sa cu e tabata worde busca.
Diasabra mainta Joran a yega Lima y den oficina di polis di investigacion ‘Dirincri’, el a worde presenta na prensa, despues di cual polis a cuminza cu su interogacion.

Segun prensa peruano, ayera e recherchenan lo a determina si e fingerprints haya na e lugar di e crimen ta coresponde na esunnan di van der Sloot.


http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/joran-ta-desea-un-abogado-di-oficio-y-un-traductor/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 01:39:23 AM
Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.


According to Glenda, she knows the exact place because she said that there is now a house on the spot.

She cannot explain however, why he was given more money in May after telling where Nat was in April.



So this information has been given to the authorities and they are in the process of excavating the house or what, lol!

Anything Glendo knows, everybody on the island knows so if this is true, they are all obstructing justice again.  Does this woman have any idea how much damange she does to the reputation of that flyspeck?

I don't know if it's the inbreeding or the tiny proximity on the island of all living so close together or what but they have lost their collective minds!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 01:39:59 AM
Hi Anna - Oh, dear, no, there was speculation here (at SM) about a deal like that being proposed. I don't think that's been offered up for real at all. Sorry, I thought you were reading when that was going on.

I've been in catch up all weekend, so I don't know know what I knew, when I knew it :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 01:46:25 AM
Murderer gets header wall
 
 
According to facial features such as eyebrows, pointed nose and deep eyes, Dutchman Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (23) is a smart, cold and manipulative. "I refuse to talk," was all he said Dirincri yesterday when detectives were preparing to question him. Its aim would be to structure a defense that allowed to contradict the police investigation.

Yesterday it was learned that he was stunned because it butted against one wall of the elevator that led to the eighth floor of the Dirincri, where it occupies a maximum security cell, guarded by four soldiers who did not lose sight. It was learned that they fear being killed or committing suicide.

"The Sabbath was made several inquiries at the offices of Homicide and Criminal. There he saw a tattoo on the left chest with the phrase: 'No problem' in Thai language," said one agent.
It was learned that the laptop was found to be delivered to the Division of High Technology for testing. The spokesman added that "to calm him, a police officer patted him and said, 'Ya, quiet, quiet."


About 9 pm, the prosecutor of the Prosecutor 40, detectives and the public defender met to pick the statement abroad. "It was learned that the detainee was going to say he was innocent and uphold it. But it was thwarted when his attorney stated that he was induced to provide answers that he did not want", he referred to a judicial source.

Around midnight, Joran was taken to a cell on the eighth floor. "It is next to another inmate for murder. The order is that at no time be alone," the informant.

He ate fried chicken
Yesterday morning, the European coffee and breakfast bread. Meanwhile, homicide detectives awaited the arrival of the public defender and translator Maurice Steins, given by the Consortium of Legal Translators.

At noon, Joran van der Sloot Andean Potatoes lunch and fried chicken with rice and potatoes, plus emollient menu that was distributed to all police officers Dirincri.

Peruvian police also coordinates with similar Aruba.

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-06/ontractualidad1093554.html

Sounds like the same POS punk he`s always been. He is under the impression he`s the Dutch TuPac or something. I think we need to go to www.youneedagoodpunchintheface.com and order him up a couple.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Hat on June 07, 2010, 01:47:31 AM
Nite Darleen - nice having you back!  Maybe I should invite Wonderwoman back too, LOLOL

Good one, Klaas!

I have been wondering about the body language Stephany exhibited following that goon to his room. Her head bowed like that. Her father mentioned it, yes? That may be partially due to fatigue or the drugging scenario. I get some kind of resignation signals there - as if she suspects she has been hustled out of her money and is going through the motions of trying to recover it.

Then there is the space between the two as they walked. He was leading by much too long a gap for them to be a couple. Just my opinion.

Makes me think he hustled her with some financial computer related angle that required them going to his room where he had his laptop. Like showing her his online gaming account, for instance.

I was thinking he got her money away from her with a con and lost it gambling while telling her he was good for it via his online gaming activity. I think he may have hustled her this way and the physical conflict grew out of his psychotic reaction to not being able to pay her back or demonstrate financials he did not really possess.

If any of this is true there is a good chance his laptop will show activity related to online poker in the time frame of the assault.

I also believe the coffee run was alibi related, thought so as soon as I heard of it as I'm sure many here did.

The Peruvian system will not give him up to serve a sentence elsewhere, I am sure. He killed one of their innocent daughters and it will be very bad for him. I wish he could see the online info about the prisons we are seeing he deserves to anticipate the terror he will experience.

His days of working the system with a smirk on his face are over.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 01:54:16 AM
REMINDER - Late night posts of Nativelingo back in August 2005:

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=83858&highlight=pediatric+paediatric#83858


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 01:54:36 AM
Goodnight all!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:56:24 AM
Former attorney questioned Joran van der Sloot tests involving the Netherlands (video)

http://www.tv.grupobloglatino.com/2010/06/ex-abogado-de-joran-van-der-sloot.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 01:57:43 AM
Hypnotic effect from date rape drugs – I’m thinking that Stephany may have had just enough drug to put her in a relaxed state, but not so relaxed as to be stumbling or falling down, and in that altered state of mind was susceptible to Joran’s directing her what to do. Maybe that would explain why she was following Joran through the hostel with her head down.


http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed075p719`

Rohypnol: Profile of the "Date-Rape Drug"

Rohypnol is one of the benzodiazepines, the class of drugs that includes such popular sedative–hypnotic agents as Librium and Valium. Although marketed legally abroad, Rohypnol is illegal in the USA. Nevertheless, it is regularly smuggled into this country and has recently achieved notoriety here as a formidable chemical weapon utilized by rapists to overpower their female victims, many of whom have been selected from the high school and college social scenes. This article describes the criminal use of this central nervous system (CNS) depressant within a chemical context and emphasizes its pharmacological effects, mechanism of action, and physiological fate or biotransformation. Moreover, the article describes another drug that, unlike Rohypnol, has legitimate medical applications in the USA but has also been used by criminals to harm others under strikingly similar circumstances.
This drug is lorazepam (Ativan), another benzodiazepine with sedative–hypnotic properties.
A key message of this article is that the chemistry classroom is an ideal setting for promoting awareness among students of the dangers of some of the drugs that have been developed for otherwise beneficial, therapeutic purposes but which have also acquired a sinister character.



http://sexual-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/understanding_date_rape_drugs

Understanding Date Rape Drugs
Rohypnol
Rohypnol, or flunitrazepam, is an illegal form of benzodiazepine, the same prescription class as Xanax and Valium. Also called a "roofie," Rohypnol is available in pill form and is extremely powerful. The Counselor Advocate Training Manual states that “at low doses, Rohypnol produces intoxication, muscle relaxation,
and sedative-hypnotic effects that last two to eight hours.
At higher doses, the body shuts down and breathing stops.” One of the most common side effects of Rohypnol is amnesia, which assailants use to their advantage.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 01:58:06 AM
Goodnight all!

nighty night! My tyrannical ruler. ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 02:00:48 AM
REMINDER - Late night posts of Nativelingo back in August 2005:

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=83858&highlight=pediatric+paediatric#83858

Anita needs to write a book: How Paul and I Built a Monster


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 02:07:30 AM
Some reports from this morning's Dutch newspapers:

Spits
Says CNN yesterday reported that the Dutch embassy complained about the way Joran was paraded before the press. This report is wrong. The Dutch embassy doesn't know where this report came from. They say they were indeed surprised and not happy about the way that happened but that an embassy can't just file a complaint against the Peruvian authorities. That should be done by the department of foreign affairs and they haven't done that.

Metro
Describes the hotel video footage as the "found footage" genre (like Hitchcock or Blair Witch Project) where you know or sense the deadly ending, but you don't get to see it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 02:08:19 AM
Puzzler,

When mixed with alcohol, the effects of that become unpredictible.  We have had monkeys who posted personal experiences of becoming compliant after being drugged even if that is not the expected result.  Normally in medical lit when it says hypnotic, it means sleep-inducing.  But we have had those who said they became completely compliant and obedient and didn't know why and didn't recall walking and talking until others told them what they did.

So I personally think that it could account for Stephany Flores different mannerisms but JMO.  And that of her father apparently.  Mixing alcohol with most drugs does make a difference.  And the wrappers were found in her vehicle.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 02:13:19 AM
Why in the world would the Aruban officials want to help him?! Thanks for the information, though, Turbothink.  Oh, and as for the worries that he will be sent back to the Netherlands (I've read in other areas)--that's never going to happen.  

IMO, There are some who helped in the cover-up of Natalie's case who by now are very afraid at this point that he will give up the Who, What, When,Why & How it happened.
If the ones I think are responsible are............it could bring down a large portion of their "officials" rapidly if all this comes out.

Watch out Joran (slime bag) for Aruba sent lawyers bearing gifts.

I am watching tapes of the police in Peru, so far they look neat and clean, and no one has yet had to run out to get a bowl of Frosted Flakes.

I have a feeling, though, that due to this being a high profile case for them with lots of cameras rolling, Joran will be treated better than the average criminal there.  He is already getting three meals a day and a blankie.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 02:14:05 AM
I guess Joran`s magical love potion was not perfected in the past 5 years.

Or Stephany would be alive today.

Goon boy will just never get the hang of it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 02:16:58 AM
Bearly - Absolutely. He and Casey are so sloppy - yet believe they are SLICK.

It`s just ridiculous. Long term thinking - doesn`t exist. Addict mentality. Need it

now. Consume it now. Suck it dry. Move on to next fix.

---

Also - on that `Law of the Donkey` thingie...

Have you ever seen the size of a donkey`s toot chute?

It could swallow Manhattan. Just a thought.

I agree with you agreeing with me.  ;-p

I don't have a clue what you are talking about with Donkey butts swallowing Manhattan and how we got there from dyed shutters, I think you must have made a wrong turn at the jug handle.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 02:20:32 AM
Murderer gets header wall
 
 
According to facial features such as eyebrows, pointed nose and deep eyes, Dutchman Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (23) is a smart, cold and manipulative. "I refuse to talk," was all he said Dirincri yesterday when detectives were preparing to question him. Its aim would be to structure a defense that allowed to contradict the police investigation.

Yesterday it was learned that he was stunned because it butted against one wall of the elevator that led to the eighth floor of the Dirincri, where it occupies a maximum security cell, guarded by four soldiers who did not lose sight. It was learned that they fear being killed or committing suicide.

"The Sabbath was made several inquiries at the offices of Homicide and Criminal. There he saw a tattoo on the left chest with the phrase: 'No problem' in Thai language," said one agent.
It was learned that the laptop was found to be delivered to the Division of High Technology for testing. The spokesman added that "to calm him, a police officer patted him and said, 'Ya, quiet, quiet."


About 9 pm, the prosecutor of the Prosecutor 40, detectives and the public defender met to pick the statement abroad. "It was learned that the detainee was going to say he was innocent and uphold it. But it was thwarted when his attorney stated that he was induced to provide answers that he did not want", he referred to a judicial source.

Around midnight, Joran was taken to a cell on the eighth floor. "It is next to another inmate for murder. The order is that at no time be alone," the informant.

He ate fried chicken
Yesterday morning, the European coffee and breakfast bread. Meanwhile, homicide detectives awaited the arrival of the public defender and translator Maurice Steins, given by the Consortium of Legal Translators.

At noon, Joran van der Sloot Andean Potatoes lunch and fried chicken with rice and potatoes, plus emollient menu that was distributed to all police officers Dirincri.

Peruvian police also coordinates with similar Aruba.

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-06/ontractualidad1093554.html

Sounds like the same POS punk he`s always been. He is under the impression he`s the Dutch TuPac or something. I think we need to go to www.youneedagoodpunchintheface.com and order him up a couple.

I found it amusing that he did a Casey Anthony in the elevator and that did not work out well for him either.  DOH!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 02:22:16 AM
Do some of you remember the donkey in the dumpster?  :--( 

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/%E2%80%9Claw-donkey%E2%80%9D-could-be-applied-joran-van-der-sloot-060610.html
“Law Of The Donkey” Could be Applied to Joran van der Sloot
June 6, 2010
(http://www.gambling911.com/files/publisher/Law-of-the-Donkey.jpg)

Joran van der Sloot, accused of killing a young Peruvian woman and who has long been the lead suspect in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway back in 2005, could be facing some severe jail time if convicted in the slaying of Stephany Flores Ramirez in his Lima hotel room.

"Severe" may be an understatement.  The prisons in Peru are known to be among the most brutal in the world.

Here is one account of what happens to prisoners such as child molesters:

A neighbor of Cieneguilla suffered the worst shock which could have happened. His daughter, only two years old, was raped by a drug addict and drunk who during a party at the neighbor's house went to her room and raped her. The unfortunate was saved from being lynched by the locals, but it was reported and he went to Lurigancho. The case, incredibly, didn't appeared in the papers, and the rapist entered in prison with nobody knewing he was. The mother, hurt, because her daughter was unable to talk permanently because of the experience, went to Lurigancho and knelt before a 'daddy' ( which is like one of the bosses among the convicts). 'I want justice, no matter the price. " 'Do not kill him, make him suffer as he did to my daughter. " The lady gave, weekly, money hidden in fruit. For seven months, the damn was massacred and raped with sticks, iron bars and pepper that they put him in the rectum. Although the lady said not to kill him and only make him suffer just a night that had consumed a lot of weed and liquor, the daddy's assasins ran his hand and did it.

Joran could face the same fate.  He is, without any doubt, the most hated person in Peru right now.  The victim's father is a prominent Peruvian businessman and one time candidate for the Vice Presidency of that country.

The van der Sloot matter has attracted the attention of poker players and industry media like Gambling911.com because the young Dutchman was in Peru to watch the Latin American Poker Tour.  He is also known to play poker online.

One Peruvian poker player defined "The Law of the Donkey" and believes it will be applied to van der Sloot should he ultimately be sentenced.

"The law of the donkey is basically about getting raped by a lot of prisoners during a lot of nights," the individual relayed.

Jagajeet Chiba, Gambling911.com

Comments

Karma
Karma...it is a bitch!!! but thank GOD there is a universal LAW!!! What goes around comes around! What a idiot that fool Joran is!! In the Ass and I hope soon! I watched the video clip of him taking the keys to the hotel room and he has a look of.... I am going to KILL HER!!! He was smiling!!!!
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 22:39.

    * reply

Where does the donkey come
Where does the donkey come in?
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:22.

    * reply

Something Lost in the Translation
"Donkey" I suspect should have been translated into "Ass", as in getting sodomized. Still, "Law of the Donkey" has a nice ring to it.
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:14.

    * reply



I jump around quite a bit... but there is a method to my madness. ;p


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 02:22:51 AM
Puzzler,

When mixed with alcohol, the effects of that become unpredictible.  We have had monkeys who posted personal experiences of becoming compliant after being drugged even if that is not the expected result.  Normally in medical lit when it says hypnotic, it means sleep-inducing.  But we have had those who said they became completely compliant and obedient and didn't know why and didn't recall walking and talking until others told them what they did.

So I personally think that it could account for Stephany Flores different mannerisms but JMO.  And that of her father apparently.  Mixing alcohol with most drugs does make a difference.  And the wrappers were found in her vehicle.

Anna...thanks for your input.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 02:26:06 AM
"The autopsy determined that my daughter did not have sex or was raped"
Flores IRRC noted that the version that would have been drugged Stephany has not yet been confirmed. He said that if daughter had bruised right arm
The driver and businessman Ricardo Flores said last night that as he has informed the police, an autopsy determined that his daughter Stephany Flores did not have sex or was raped before being murdered in a hotel in Miraflores Tac allegedly at the hands of Dutchman Joran van der Sloot.

"The autopsy determined, according to police, that my daughter has not had sex or been raped," Flores said in an interview with The Sniper. But he said he had no details about the version that Stephany had been drugged. "It is collecting information to bits," he said.

Ricardo Flores made this revelation while commenting on the hypothesis that the motive for the murder have been the theft, which is considered an aggravating circumstance in the murder case and could lead to imprisonment for life shall be for the crime.

In another part of the interview, the driver said the body of his daughter was "totally bruised right arm" would have tried to defend himself because of his aggressive attack. Ricardo Flores attempted to describe the state was Stephany's neck but the pain was overcome and could not complete the sentence. "It's hard to remember," he said.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490948/autopsia-determina-que-mi-hija-no-tuvo-relaciones-sexuales-ni-fue-violada


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 02:28:58 AM
Video of Joran van der Sloot in police custody in Peru (Part 1 of 3)

http://www.youtube.com/v/7UkxOTRoZho&hl=en_GB&fs=1&

OMG, the red hair in this one just kills me.  Instead of blending in, he sure sticks out.  I wonder how far he went with it?  Do you think the shutters match the roof?


(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2330/jorannounderware.jpg)

The shutters remain unchanged



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 02:30:43 AM
Lawyers advised Joran
Two assisting counsel represented him in Office and Dirincri, but calls a lawyer Dutchman. His backpack was found  a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating.

The Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, 22, feels increasingly cornered. So, now struggling to communicate with his mother and getting a lawyer to free him from Dutchman a tough sentence which could be many years in a prison in our country. The young man is guarded by four policemen in the cells of the Dirincri. The officials said that note was tense.

LAWYERS. The public defender advised Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid abroad in the Public Ministry. Perú.21 spoke with the lawyer, who narrated that the Van Der Sloot to ask about the charges against him there, he replied: "Yes, Stephany Flores's death."

"He said he wanted to communicate with her mother and needed a lawyer from the country and not trade.
Yet he counseled and asked if he had a friend in Peru, and Uruguay Elton responded that Garcia "he said.

Meanwhile, during his statement to the police in Dirincri, which lasted until dawn yesterday, another public defender, Carla Odria, as advised in this process. "I can not declare in advance because the process still continues," he said in succinct when asked about the coach.

"OTHER EVIDENCE? Also, yesterday released a video where you can see the time police searched the belongings of the Dutchman. Among them was a laptop HP brand and various notes and coins in Chile, Bolivia and Peru.

The experts are investigating the origin of the machine, as the father of Stephany, Ricardo Flores, said that one day before the murder he gave his daughter a thousand dollars to buy the unit. Police carried out a confrontation with hotel employees TAC, Miraflores, who corroborated that enter the Dutchman saw Stephany, on Sunday 30 May.

Today you could have the integral result of the autopsy that was performed on the victim. In this way you can determine whether she was raped or not.

Meanwhile, Joseph Tacopina, a former Van Der Sloot attorney who successfully defended in the case of the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, questioned via telephone communication with the Panorama program, the Dutchman evidence implicating the crime in Lima .

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" He asked. He also expressed his surprise at the time that passed between the day of the murder and the discovery of the body.

http://peru21.pe/impresa/noticia/abogadas-asesoraron-joran/2010-06-07/276910


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 02:31:38 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 02:33:30 AM
No, Puzzler; that drug does not have that effect.  (Good thought, though.)

Thanks.

Okay...the drug is a muscle relaxer....a light dosage...? maybe why she had her head hung down in the video while Joran was getting the keys and even in the walk to the room?

She didn't have her head up and they weren't talking...maybe she was in a relaxed state and that's why she wasn't holding her head up.

She wasn't stumbling, etc., not that bad...but maybe relaxed.



How much did he give her?  Muscle relaxers and alcohol do not mix.

I have been wondering if he asked her for a ride back to his hostel and while they were traveling she became very tired because of the drug.  He then 'invited' her to lay down for a little while until she got her wits about her.  It makes no sense otherwise.  I bet he got really pizzed when he found out she had no interest in sleeping with him.  She was happily a lesbian from what I have read.  He was already angry that he had struck out all night, and then he went over the edge.

The guy has a history of violence, and anyone who did not get him help, hold him responsible for his previous actions, and/or covered up for him, helped to create the scene in Peru.  He is ultimately responsible, but he was given the false sense that he was untouchable and better than the women he destroyed.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 02:34:10 AM
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2330/jorannounderware.jpg)

Tattoo: 'No problem' in Thai language



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 02:35:22 AM
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7868/joranfacebookphototatoo.jpg)

Tattoo: "No problem" in Thai language


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 02:36:09 AM
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2330/jorannounderware.jpg)

The shutters were spared in the bleach job



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 02:37:25 AM
Someone needs to explain to Joe Tacopina that this mysterious third person he keeps talking about would also show up on the video tape both entering and leaving the room.  Unless maybe they were a vampire?

What a jerk this guy is!  If that's his best defense on this, yeah, Joran is toast.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 02:38:45 AM
REMINDER - Late night posts of Nativelingo back in August 2005:

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=83858&highlight=pediatric+paediatric#83858

Yes, I was remembering that.  I didn't know from where, thanks, Klaas, you rock!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 02:42:17 AM
Someone needs to explain to Joe Tacopina that this mysterious third person he keeps talking about would also show up on the video tape both entering and leaving the room.  Unless maybe they were a vampire?

What a jerk this guy is!  If that's his best defense on this, yeah, Joran is toast.

Wasn't it Joe Tacopina who tried to convince us that Natalee had used her card key?
And that lie fell apart too.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 02:43:40 AM
REMINDER - Late night posts of Nativelingo back in August 2005:

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=83858&highlight=pediatric+paediatric#83858

Anita needs to write a book: How Paul and I Built a Monster

Anita built the monster, Paulus only contributed a little squirt.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 02:45:03 AM
No doubts, Puzzler.

He`s a date rapist serial killer.

He lies to them - anything to get them into a room alone. No way out. Isolation.

Then his inner octopus comes out and he`s all over them like a cheap suit.

They reject his advances.

In his mind - he can`t deal with the rejection, he`s humiliated and insulted
that they don`t want him.


He then flies off the handle into a full blown rage and beats them to death.

He taught them a lesson - they deserved it. For insulting God`s great gift

to women. The omnipotent Joran Van of Death!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 02:50:13 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 02:53:25 AM
Do some of you remember the donkey in the dumpster?  :--( 

http://www.gambling911.com/poker/%E2%80%9Claw-donkey%E2%80%9D-could-be-applied-joran-van-der-sloot-060610.html
“Law Of The Donkey” Could be Applied to Joran van der Sloot
June 6, 2010
(http://www.gambling911.com/files/publisher/Law-of-the-Donkey.jpg)

Joran van der Sloot, accused of killing a young Peruvian woman and who has long been the lead suspect in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway back in 2005, could be facing some severe jail time if convicted in the slaying of Stephany Flores Ramirez in his Lima hotel room.

"Severe" may be an understatement.  The prisons in Peru are known to be among the most brutal in the world.

Here is one account of what happens to prisoners such as child molesters:

A neighbor of Cieneguilla suffered the worst shock which could have happened. His daughter, only two years old, was raped by a drug addict and drunk who during a party at the neighbor's house went to her room and raped her. The unfortunate was saved from being lynched by the locals, but it was reported and he went to Lurigancho. The case, incredibly, didn't appeared in the papers, and the rapist entered in prison with nobody knewing he was. The mother, hurt, because her daughter was unable to talk permanently because of the experience, went to Lurigancho and knelt before a 'daddy' ( which is like one of the bosses among the convicts). 'I want justice, no matter the price. " 'Do not kill him, make him suffer as he did to my daughter. " The lady gave, weekly, money hidden in fruit. For seven months, the damn was massacred and raped with sticks, iron bars and pepper that they put him in the rectum. Although the lady said not to kill him and only make him suffer just a night that had consumed a lot of weed and liquor, the daddy's assasins ran his hand and did it.

Joran could face the same fate.  He is, without any doubt, the most hated person in Peru right now.  The victim's father is a prominent Peruvian businessman and one time candidate for the Vice Presidency of that country.

The van der Sloot matter has attracted the attention of poker players and industry media like Gambling911.com because the young Dutchman was in Peru to watch the Latin American Poker Tour.  He is also known to play poker online.

One Peruvian poker player defined "The Law of the Donkey" and believes it will be applied to van der Sloot should he ultimately be sentenced.

"The law of the donkey is basically about getting raped by a lot of prisoners during a lot of nights," the individual relayed.

Jagajeet Chiba, Gambling911.com

Comments

Karma
Karma...it is a bitch!!! but thank GOD there is a universal LAW!!! What goes around comes around! What a idiot that fool Joran is!! In the Ass and I hope soon! I watched the video clip of him taking the keys to the hotel room and he has a look of.... I am going to KILL HER!!! He was smiling!!!!
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 22:39.

    * reply

Where does the donkey come
Where does the donkey come in?
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:22.

    * reply

Something Lost in the Translation
"Donkey" I suspect should have been translated into "Ass", as in getting sodomized. Still, "Law of the Donkey" has a nice ring to it.
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 06/06/2010 - 21:14.

    * reply



I jump around quite a bit... but there is a method to my madness. ;p

Thanks, Carpe, I have been tossed out of the cage so many times tonight, my donkey is sore.  I must have missed this post.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 02:54:28 AM
Someone needs to explain to Joe Tacopina that this mysterious third person he keeps talking about would also show up on the video tape both entering and leaving the room.  Unless maybe they were a vampire?

What a jerk this guy is!  If that's his best defense on this, yeah, Joran is toast.

Wasn't it Joe Tacopina who tried to convince us that Natalee had used her card key?
And that lie fell apart too.




Not sure Kermie but I have heard him saying all kinds of things on TV all along that are just not true.  And I have never thought Paulus "hired" him but rather he was "assigned" to defend Joran by his mobster bosses possibly as a courtesy to Posner or someone connected on Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 02:56:34 AM
Foreplay to Joran is jiggling the lock.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 02:56:45 AM


The shutters remain unchanged



Thanks, Kermit, is that the official FBI position? :-p





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: sebastian on June 07, 2010, 02:58:02 AM
No doubts, Puzzler.

He`s a date rapist serial killer.

He lies to them - anything to get them into a room alone. No way out. Isolation.

Then his inner octopus comes out and he`s all over them like a cheap suit.

They reject his advances.

In his mind - he can`t deal with the rejection, he`s humiliated and insulted
that they don`t want him.


He then flies off the handle into a full blown rage and beats them to death.

He taught them a lesson - they deserved it. For insulting God`s great gift

to women. The omnipotent Joran Van of Death!

So very true! I wonder if even now, in his twisted sick mind, if he thinks he will get away with this murder too?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 03:02:05 AM
During this week of interrogation I think we will continue to hear lots of contradictions and conflicting stories.  But if only one third of the evidence we have been told they have is true, a conviction seems a pretty sure thing.  Peru doesn't need to deal.  It's Joran who needs a deal, not Peru.  I don't think they will be in any hurry to give Joran any breaks.

So on those thoughts I am giving it up for today.  Hoping for more concrete evidence tomorrow.

Niters, all!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 03:05:39 AM
No doubts, Puzzler.

He`s a date rapist serial killer.

He lies to them - anything to get them into a room alone. No way out. Isolation.

Then his inner octopus comes out and he`s all over them like a cheap suit.

They reject his advances.

In his mind - he can`t deal with the rejection, he`s humiliated and insulted
that they don`t want him.


He then flies off the handle into a full blown rage and beats them to death.

He taught them a lesson - they deserved it. For insulting God`s great gift

to women. The omnipotent Joran Van of Death!

So very true! I wonder if even now, in his twisted sick mind, if he thinks he will get away with this murder too?

Yes!  IMO - I think he thinks he'll get out of this...he's already not talking and insisting on seeing his mother and an attorney.  It will be everyone else's fault - 5 trillion different versions.

However...if it's true that Stephany's blood is on Joran's shirt, then it won't matter how many stories he has up his sleeve.  And, if his DNA is under Stephany's fingernails, that would be perfect, too. 

Joran had never had to deal with actual undeniable facts shoved at him before.  He has no experience with it.  '



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:10:52 AM
He actually creates his own problem by drugging them.

They are too tired - they feel like crap. Sex is the last thing they want.

Especially, with a creep like that who is attacking them.

All they wanna do is get away.

LEAVE ME ALONE.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 03:12:27 AM
Did anyone recognize this as a map for Santiago?  Or maybe it's just a brochure of some type?

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06062010_Santiago.jpg)

Does anyone know where on Hwy 68 iirc that Joran was captured?

Would it be of any interest if one of the friends of Anita had visited Santiago, Valparaíso, and Vina del Mar?  Maybe just coincidence?  Not quite sure of the timing but maybe in the past year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C3%B1a_del_Mar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valpara%C3%ADso

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Santiago+Chile&sll=-33.065363,-71.555672&sspn=0.142422,0.220757&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Santiago,+Chile&ll=-33.360356,-70.977173&spn=1.135546,1.766052&z=9

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06062010_Map_Chile.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 03:14:45 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



Yes, and Natalee was supposed to be a virgin.  That may have been important to her so she fought extra hard.  It all becomes clearer now.  I could not believe anyone had that much rage in him, but now I can.  I feel numb about this whole thing, angry, teary-eyed, and shocked. 

If he was arrested and put in jail in the US for extortion, those in Aruba who worship him would have thought it was a setup.  This way there is no doubt of his guilt.  I am so so sorry that Stephany became yet another victim of the Joran Rage Machine.  He should have been off the streets long ago.  He should have been locked up in a mental institution after brutally murdering his dog.

I wonder why he killed the dog so brutally?  Did the dog refuse to listen to one of his commands?  Why would anyone kill their own dog?  Brutally kill your pet, why?  He should have been locked up a long time ago.

The prison system he is in gives me no comfort, I don't want to know he is being brutalized either.  I am very relieved he is locked up and off the streets, I think he deserves punishment and to be locked up the rest of his life with no privileges.  I think 3 meals is too much for him.  I would like to see him without any comforts, computer, TV, cell phone, but I do not want to see him brutalized.  I think I am in the minority, but I don't want to ever become the animal he is, taking pleasure in the torture of another human being.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:15:56 AM
During this week of interrogation I think we will continue to hear lots of contradictions and conflicting stories.  But if only one third of the evidence we have been told they have is true, a conviction seems a pretty sure thing.  Peru doesn't need to deal.  It's Joran who needs a deal, not Peru.  I don't think they will be in any hurry to give Joran any breaks.

So on those thoughts I am giving it up for today.  Hoping for more concrete evidence tomorrow.

Niters, all!

Night, Anna. Sleep well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 03:20:16 AM
Someone needs to explain to Joe Tacopina that this mysterious third person he keeps talking about would also show up on the video tape both entering and leaving the room.  Unless maybe they were a vampire?

What a jerk this guy is!  If that's his best defense on this, yeah, Joran is toast.

Wasn't it Joe Tacopina who tried to convince us that Natalee had used her card key?
And that lie fell apart too.


I think it was!  Good memory Kermit!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 03:20:41 AM
During this week of interrogation I think we will continue to hear lots of contradictions and conflicting stories.  But if only one third of the evidence we have been told they have is true, a conviction seems a pretty sure thing.  Peru doesn't need to deal.  It's Joran who needs a deal, not Peru.  I don't think they will be in any hurry to give Joran any breaks.

So on those thoughts I am giving it up for today.  Hoping for more concrete evidence tomorrow.

Niters, all!

Night, Anna. Sleep well.

Good night Anna!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jesdamala on June 07, 2010, 03:20:54 AM
I agree with you.  I don't wish him to be brutalized.  However, I cannot control his future and what it holds. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:24:28 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



Yes, and Natalee was supposed to be a virgin.  That may have been important to her so she fought extra hard.  It all becomes clearer now.  I could not believe anyone had that much rage in him, but now I can.  I feel numb about this whole thing, angry, teary-eyed, and shocked. 

If he was arrested and put in jail in the US for extortion, those in Aruba who worship him would have thought it was a setup.  This way there is no doubt of his guilt.  I am so so sorry that Stephany became yet another victim of the Joran Rage Machine.  He should have been off the streets long ago.  He should have been locked up in a mental institution after brutally murdering his dog.

I wonder why he killed the dog so brutally?  Did the dog refuse to listen to one of his commands?  Why would anyone kill their own dog?  Brutally kill your pet, why?  He should have been locked up a long time ago.

The prison system he is in gives me no comfort, I don't want to know he is being brutalized either.  I am very relieved he is locked up and off the streets, I think he deserves punishment and to be locked up the rest of his life with no privileges.  I think 3 meals is too much for him.  I would like to see him without any comforts, computer, TV, cell phone, but I do not want to see him brutalized.  I think I am in the minority, but I don't want to ever become the animal he is, taking pleasure in the torture of another human being.



I take no pleasure in another getting tortured.

However, I lose no sleep and shed not one tear over what happens to Joran.

He has created his own hell. He will reap what he has sown.

...and that is what is supposed to happen.

Just like the sun coming up in the morning.

I expect it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 03:25:19 AM
Someone needs to explain to Joe Tacopina that this mysterious third person he keeps talking about would also show up on the video tape both entering and leaving the room.  Unless maybe they were a vampire?

What a jerk this guy is!  If that's his best defense on this, yeah, Joran is toast.

Joe T is in the business of defending the indefensible.  He has sold out to the devil, imo.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 03:31:56 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?



Anita will be Anita, she will begin by describing the poor girl's underwear and then she will call in Paulus' cronies and get help from the NL.  She has plenty of support.  She should be used to defending him by now, she will just go into spin mode.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:36:26 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?



Anita will be Anita, she will begin by describing the poor girl's underwear and then she will call in Paulus' cronies and get help from the NL.  She has plenty of support.  She should be used to defending him by now, she will just go into spin mode.



She will continue to lie and deny all of the way to the bitter end.

She will shrivel up and die off just like Paulus did.

Joran will drain every last bit of life and money she has left.

...and she will give it to him, happily.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 03:36:54 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?



Anita will be Anita, she will begin by describing the poor girl's underwear and then she will call in Paulus' cronies and get help from the NL.  She has plenty of support.  She should be used to defending him by now, she will just go into spin mode.



Spin mode...you're probably right...and the spin will be even more now that's she's a widow!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 03:38:24 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



Yes, and Natalee was supposed to be a virgin.  That may have been important to her so she fought extra hard.  It all becomes clearer now.  I could not believe anyone had that much rage in him, but now I can.  I feel numb about this whole thing, angry, teary-eyed, and shocked. 

If he was arrested and put in jail in the US for extortion, those in Aruba who worship him would have thought it was a setup.  This way there is no doubt of his guilt.  I am so so sorry that Stephany became yet another victim of the Joran Rage Machine.  He should have been off the streets long ago.  He should have been locked up in a mental institution after brutally murdering his dog.

I wonder why he killed the dog so brutally?  Did the dog refuse to listen to one of his commands?  Why would anyone kill their own dog?  Brutally kill your pet, why?  He should have been locked up a long time ago.

The prison system he is in gives me no comfort, I don't want to know he is being brutalized either.  I am very relieved he is locked up and off the streets, I think he deserves punishment and to be locked up the rest of his life with no privileges.  I think 3 meals is too much for him.  I would like to see him without any comforts, computer, TV, cell phone, but I do not want to see him brutalized.  I think I am in the minority, but I don't want to ever become the animal he is, taking pleasure in the torture of another human being.



You're a sweetheart Sis! (((hugs)))

I may have agreed with you five years ago, but I guess I've hardened a bit over time.  I want him to live for a while at least five years...and have everything done to him that he has done to others except cause their death.  I want him to have a long time to think about what he's done, and all the pain he's caused.  I know it's wrong to feel that way, but I do.  If Natalee were brought home now, I would do my very best to forgive him.  But until that happens, I'm not even trying.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 03:39:09 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?



Anita will be Anita, she will begin by describing the poor girl's underwear and then she will call in Paulus' cronies and get help from the NL.  She has plenty of support.  She should be used to defending him by now, she will just go into spin mode.



Spin mode...you're probably right...and the spin will be even more now that's she's a widow!



Anita always has worn the under pants in that family.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 03:46:25 AM
Convincing evidence against Joran

Bert houses and Kieran Bald

LIMA (PERU) - Police in Peru today think all the first reports have traces that might indicate the involvement of Joran van der Sloot at the death of Stephany Flores.

Ricardo Flores, the father of the victim, points to Peruvian television Joran van der Sloot as the main suspect

"All the evidence suggests that he has killed Stephany," said Cesar Guardia, head of Criminal Investigation Department of police. Thus, the murdered Stephany presumably tissue under her fingernails. Police from exclusive footage of the medical examination of Joran on his body left no visible traces. Also bloody shoe prints between bed and bathroom are examined.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 03:47:54 AM
Hi Monkeys!

I had to do the work that I didn't do Friday, so I'm in catch up mode again! YUK! I did see Geraldo, and thoroughly enjoyed it! Kimberly and Baden don't think sporter is going to win Mr. Popularity in prison, do they? LOL!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 03:48:25 AM
ElaineS = +3

Glenda/Renfro = 0



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

This really needed to be bumped up for anyone that missed it!  lmao


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 03:49:59 AM
Did anyone recognize this as a map for Santiago?  Or maybe it's just a brochure of some type?

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06062010_Santiago.jpg)

Does anyone know where on Hwy 68 iirc that Joran was captured?

Would it be of any interest if one of the friends of Anita had visited Santiago, Valparaíso, and Vina del Mar?  Maybe just coincidence?  Not quite sure of the timing but maybe in the past year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C3%B1a_del_Mar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valpara%C3%ADso

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Santiago+Chile&sll=-33.065363,-71.555672&sspn=0.142422,0.220757&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Santiago,+Chile&ll=-33.360356,-70.977173&spn=1.135546,1.766052&z=9

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06062010_Map_Chile.jpg)


The closest village was Curacavi. It's on your map.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 03:51:36 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



Yes, and Natalee was supposed to be a virgin.  That may have been important to her so she fought extra hard.  It all becomes clearer now.  I could not believe anyone had that much rage in him, but now I can.  I feel numb about this whole thing, angry, teary-eyed, and shocked. 

If he was arrested and put in jail in the US for extortion, those in Aruba who worship him would have thought it was a setup.  This way there is no doubt of his guilt.  I am so so sorry that Stephany became yet another victim of the Joran Rage Machine.  He should have been off the streets long ago.  He should have been locked up in a mental institution after brutally murdering his dog.

I wonder why he killed the dog so brutally?  Did the dog refuse to listen to one of his commands?  Why would anyone kill their own dog?  Brutally kill your pet, why?  He should have been locked up a long time ago.

The prison system he is in gives me no comfort, I don't want to know he is being brutalized either.  I am very relieved he is locked up and off the streets, I think he deserves punishment and to be locked up the rest of his life with no privileges.  I think 3 meals is too much for him.  I would like to see him without any comforts, computer, TV, cell phone, but I do not want to see him brutalized.  I think I am in the minority, but I don't want to ever become the animal he is, taking pleasure in the torture of another human being.



You're a sweetheart Sis! (((hugs)))

I may have agreed with you five years ago, but I guess I've hardened a bit over time.  I want him to live for a while at least five years...and have everything done to him that he has done to others except cause their death.  I want him to have a long time to think about what he's done, and all the pain he's caused.  I know it's wrong to feel that way, but I do.  If Natalee were brought home now, I would do my very best to forgive him.  But until that happens, I'm not even trying.

I totally understand. 

I want him to feel the fear that his victims did.  He has destroyed the joy in living life freely in those he raped, and those he sold in Thailand, if that is true.  He has ruined the lives of those who continue to hurt day after day, because their children are dead or will never be the same.  I despise who he is and what he has done, he deserves to have no real life.  I want him to suffer, just as he has made others suffer, so he can internalize what he has done, if that is even possible.  I want that smirk off his face and his mother's face.  He has destroyed many lives, including his own family's, but in that case, they let him.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:53:19 AM
http://www.livinginperu.com/news-12382-law-order-peru-van-der-sloot-detention-extended-7-days-dutch-authorities-express-concerns

Also, sources from the Peru Police have reported that the Embassy of Netherlands has expressed concerns regarding the way Joran van der Sloot is being treated in Peru.

Peru Police had paraded van der Sloot in front of the reporters, handcuffed and wearing a bullet-proof vest.

“They disagree with the way the suspect was presented to the press,” said a police source, adding that , despite their previous declaration informing that they would not be involved, the Embassy has volunteered to provide a defense attorney for van der Sloot, despite the fact that Peruvian laws provide lawyers to those defendants who cannot afford one.

Presenting suspects to the press is not an unusual practice in South America, but the Netherlands consular representatives have expressed their disagreement, according to CNN.

The Peruvian Interior Ministry is asking authorities not to talk about the case without authorization.

----

I think that was the polite Peruvian way of saying:

Hey, you bunch of Dutch Embassy a-holes.

You need to shut your mouth - before we hit it shut.

The world respected you - now you respect us.

2 way street.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 03:53:20 AM
ElaineS = +3

Glenda/Renfro = 0



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

This really needed to be bumped up for anyone that missed it!  lmao

OMG!!! texasmom................. if nobody has told you today that they wub you........... I WILL!!  LOLOL!!! Thank you for the bump!! I wouldn't have missed it for the world!!  I LOVE it when Glenda gets the slap down!!!! <monkey jumping jacks!!>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 03:54:22 AM
CBB, if you have time would you find the picture that iirc Misgivings posted of Stephany today and post it again?  I scrolled through most of the pages in this thread but I didn't find it.  I haven't put one in my photobucket yet, I promise to do it soon.

TIA  (((hugs))) wub you too!

Good night!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 03:54:57 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_kjjkik_1-1.jpg)

Truth and Justice for Natalee!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 03:57:31 AM
CBB, if you have time would you find the picture that iirc Misgivings posted of Stephany today and post it again?  I scrolled through most of the pages in this thread but I didn't find it.  I haven't put one in my photobucket yet, I promise to do it soon.

TIA  (((hugs))) wub you too!

Good night!



Sure, if I can find it, I'll post it for you! Night texasmom! Sleep well!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 04:01:25 AM
I guess this has been posted, but I just decided to mosey over to Wiki tonight. (Keep getting kicked out here.) From Wikipedia, Natalee Holloway:

Following the airing of the De Vries program, Beth Twitty, adhering to the position that the tapes represent the way events transpired, told the New York Post that she believes her daughter might still be alive if Van der Sloot had called for help. She contends that Van der Sloot dumped Holloway's body, possibly alive, into the Caribbean.[142] Twitty also alleges that the individual Joran van der Sloot supposedly called that evening was his father, Paulus, who, according to Twitty, "orchestrated what to do next".[143] She, and Dave Holloway, alleged that Joran van der Sloot was receiving "special legal favors".[143] After the court decision not to rearrest Van der Sloot was affirmed, Twitty stated, "I think that what I do take comfort in, his life is a living hell",[144] later adding, "I'd be good with a Midnight Express prison anywhere for Joran."[145]



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 04:01:59 AM
http://www.livinginperu.com/news-12382-law-order-peru-van-der-sloot-detention-extended-7-days-dutch-authorities-express-concerns

Ricardo Flores, father of Stephany Flores, claims that when he asked for her daughters' personal belongings, the police told him they had found nothing but an empty wallet and a cell phone.

“I had given her US $1,000 in cash, which she was supposed to spend in a new laptop computer,” he said,“ adding that she was also wearing expensive jewelery that has not been found.

Reportedly, hours before her death, Stephany Flores had won US $5,000 playing at the casino where she met van der Sloot, money that has vanished too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 04:07:39 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 04:09:22 AM
ElaineS = +3

Glenda/Renfro = 0



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

This really needed to be bumped up for anyone that missed it!  lmao

There are others who need punishment besides Joran, I can imagine them all gathered up in one group while the verse of the song, "We Will All Go Down Together," plays over and over in the background.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 04:09:48 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 04:17:40 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)

google translator -

Mon June 7, 2010, 5:30


Netherlands calls on Peru's ears
The Dutch embassy in ...

Joran wants Peruvian lawyer
Joran van der Sloot, who is ...

Hang him high!
In Peru's tabloid press has Joran van der Sloot ...



"All the evidence suggests that he has killed Stephany," said Cesar Guardia, head of Criminal Investigation Department of police. Thus, the murdered Stephany presumably tissue under her fingernails. Police from exclusive footage of the medical examination of Joran on his body left no visible traces. Also bloody shoe prints between bed and bathroom are examined.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 04:20:32 AM
I guess this has been posted, but I just decided to mosey over to Wiki tonight. (Keep getting kicked out here.) From Wikipedia, Natalee Holloway:

Following the airing of the De Vries program, Beth Twitty, adhering to the position that the tapes represent the way events transpired, told the New York Post that she believes her daughter might still be alive if Van der Sloot had called for help. She contends that Van der Sloot dumped Holloway's body, possibly alive, into the Caribbean.[142] Twitty also alleges that the individual Joran van der Sloot supposedly called that evening was his father, Paulus, who, according to Twitty, "orchestrated what to do next".[143] She, and Dave Holloway, alleged that Joran van der Sloot was receiving "special legal favors".[143] After the court decision not to rearrest Van der Sloot was affirmed, Twitty stated, "I think that what I do take comfort in, his life is a living hell",[144] later adding, "I'd be good with a Midnight Express prison anywhere for Joran."[145]



WOW! Thank you, MsMarple, for bringing that here! It gives me chills. There is a full circle bearing down on so much of what's happened. Beth was a prophet and from her lips to God's ears!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 04:21:33 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 04:24:34 AM
CBB, if you have time would you find the picture that iirc Misgivings posted of Stephany today and post it again?  I scrolled through most of the pages in this thread but I didn't find it.  I haven't put one in my photobucket yet, I promise to do it soon.

TIA  (((hugs))) wub you too!

Good night!



Sure, if I can find it, I'll post it for you! Night texasmom! Sleep well!

Here you go..............

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Stephany.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 04:28:02 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Has Anita arrived in Peru yet? I wouldn't want to miss the reception she receives upon landing. Watch those knife sticking witch doctors!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 04:28:08 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Agreed - and what reputation they had has all been blown on Joran.

They need to learn how to pick and choose their battles better.

As far as that worthless over-sized diddling twat, Anita.

Every Aruban would be best off telling her to go pound sand in her shorts.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jesdamala on June 07, 2010, 04:30:14 AM
It gave me chills as well.  I am not a member of the 'club' she was forced to join, thankfully. The 'club' of family of missing and murdered children.   He made her life a living hell for a long time.  He really went all out to torture her.  Laughing all the way.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 04:36:08 AM
After the court decision not to rearrest Van der Sloot was affirmed, Twitty stated, "I think that what I do take comfort in, his life is a living hell",[144] later adding, "I'd be good with a Midnight Express prison anywhere for Joran." --Beth, per Wikipedia, Natalee Holloway.

Do you think Beth really said that? I don't recall. I thought it was astonishing, given what's happened ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 04:38:41 AM
It gave me chills as well.  I am not a member of the 'club' she was forced to join, thankfully. The 'club' of family of missing and murdered children.   He made her life a living hell for a long time.  He really went all out to torture her.  Laughing all the way.


Yes he did! Beth said something similar to DeVries when she watched the video of Joran and Patrick. She said his life would be Hell from that point on. The "Midnight Express" prison was news to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 04:39:25 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

Paulus created all the legal jumble...I'm sure he threatened some...some were friends, like van der Stratten...some he held their own bad deeds over their heads.

I've always thought that a lot of what was going on was that if certain things were told that Joran or members of Joran's family...specifically dad...might get killed. 

With dad deceased, and Joran in such bad trouble, I hope he will slip up and tell something that will start the whole house of cards to come tumbling down.  If Joran tells any truth, I do believe we will see a really big crash.

Folks on Aruba are vested in not piling on Joran because they've confused the world for 5 whole years and if/when stuff starts coming out and getting checked into...tons of people are in trouble.

I sure hope it happens!  Joran has a week in jail in Lima, but after that he's going to prison to await trial.  THAT will be a huge shock.  He loves to talk...wonder how long it will take him to spill the beans?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 04:42:24 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)

google translator -

Mon June 7, 2010, 5:30


Netherlands calls on Peru's ears
The Dutch embassy in ...

Joran wants Peruvian lawyer
Joran van der Sloot, who is ...

Hang him high!
In Peru's tabloid press has Joran van der Sloot ...



"All the evidence suggests that he has killed Stephany," said Cesar Guardia, head of Criminal Investigation Department of police. Thus, the murdered Stephany presumably tissue under her fingernails. Police from exclusive footage of the medical examination of Joran on his body left no visible traces. Also bloody shoe prints between bed and bathroom are examined.


One thing's for sure...not too many people would have bloody shoe prints in a size 14.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 04:42:58 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)

From the comments:

Joran is not a Dutchman but Aruban!  He certainly deserves his life imprisonment or death. His mental illness is much psycose.  He must be the area where the body of Nathalee Holloway Joran is dumped.   Horrible what ways did.
Arnhemmer, Arnhem | 20:00 | 06.06.10 Arnhem, Arnhem | 20:00 | 06.06.1910

Nobody wants to claim him.  He is a Dutchman...No, he is an Aruban...No, he is a Dutchman...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 04:46:01 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)

google translator -

Mon June 7, 2010, 5:30


Netherlands calls on Peru's ears
The Dutch embassy in ...

Joran wants Peruvian lawyer
Joran van der Sloot, who is ...

Hang him high!
In Peru's tabloid press has Joran van der Sloot ...



"All the evidence suggests that he has killed Stephany," said Cesar Guardia, head of Criminal Investigation Department of police. Thus, the murdered Stephany presumably tissue under her fingernails. Police from exclusive footage of the medical examination of Joran on his body left no visible traces. Also bloody shoe prints between bed and bathroom are examined.


That word "presumably" definitely needs to be there, because the next sentence contradicts. (If there's something under her nails, no marks on Joran, ooops. Who's what is under her nails?)

I read (Google translator) the comments on that article. Many folks are concerned that evidence against Joran will be manufactured. They don't necessarily think Joran is innocent, but that the investigation will be a farce. (But indeed, they mostly seemed to have no problem with Joran going off to prison in a third-world country.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 04:48:30 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Has Anita arrived in Peru yet? I wouldn't want to miss the reception she receives upon landing. Watch those knife sticking witch doctors!!

I thought the ritual they were doing was to drive the demons out of him.  Can you imagine if Anita came to Peru and she ends up with both her demons and Joran's demons?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 04:50:37 AM
Beth says........... "His life is a living Hell. It's about to begin."  With these new developments, this is worth watching again. If there is an ad at the bottom, just close the ad out:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zogNuBp9PDk&hl=en_US&fs=1&


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 04:52:08 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)

The "Hang 'm high" article on the site of the Telegraaf, was about what the Peruvian press wrote about Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 04:53:10 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Has Anita arrived in Peru yet? I wouldn't want to miss the reception she receives upon landing. Watch those knife sticking witch doctors!!

I thought the ritual they were doing was to drive the demons out of him.  Can you imagine if Anita came to Peru and she ends up with both her demons and Joran's demons?



Oh, my...now there's a thought! 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 04:55:05 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Agreed - and what reputation they had has all been blown on Joran.

They need to learn how to pick and choose their battles better.

As far as that worthless over-sized diddling twat, Anita.

Every Aruban would be best off telling her to go pound sand in her shorts.

I am surprised by the comments in the Dutch paper where people who don't like Joran, so they say, think this is a setup.  Go figure.  They will only be convinced if it happens to them.  Speaking of which, I wonder if any women/girls from the NL were raped when he was there and were just to ashamed to report it.  I can understand why they wouldn't, he is so high profile, their names would be smeared from here to kingdom come. 

I hope they come out now, especially now that we know his MO is drugging them first.  I cannot imagine being so desperate that I would have to drug someone to have sex with me.  He must be a loser besides being a criminal.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 04:56:37 AM
It gave me chills as well.  I am not a member of the 'club' she was forced to join, thankfully. The 'club' of family of missing and murdered children.   He made her life a living hell for a long time.  He really went all out to torture her.  Laughing all the way.


Yes he did! Beth said something similar to DeVries when she watched the video of Joran and Patrick. She said his life would be Hell from that point on. The "Midnight Express" prison was news to me.

I remember that interview, and the "living hell" part, but "Midnight Express" -- astonishing. This all just gets curiouser and curiouser.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 04:58:21 AM
It gave me chills as well.  I am not a member of the 'club' she was forced to join, thankfully. The 'club' of family of missing and murdered children.   He made her life a living hell for a long time.  He really went all out to torture her.  Laughing all the way.


Torture is the right word.  What he did to Beth is unforgivable, he should be her slave for the rest of her life, complete with choker chain, leash, and a paper bag over his head with only slits for his eyes.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 04:58:39 AM

Aruban Authorities Speak to CBS42

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Aruban-Authorities-Speak-to-CBS42/-WvWfDxXok60JfQse3kJRg.cspx



Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- Jossy Mansur, editor of Diario newspaper in Aruba, spoke with CBS 42 by phone, Sunday afternoon. He said there are two planned searches on the island. He says one will be near the bird sanctuary and the other near the dam. Mansur says the two other suspects in the Holloway case, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, are still believed to live on the island. They have kept a very low profile. He believes they should be worried Joran may try to implicate them in the disappearance of Natalee to get a better deal in Peru.

Joran van der Sloot will spend next week at police headquarters in Peru. He faces more questioning, and officials are testing a tennis racket and bloody clothes, for d-n-a linking him to the death of a young woman.

The two were caught on tape entering his hotel room, the day she was killed. As you can imagine, this is the talk of Aruba where Natalee Holloway disappeared five years ago. Joran van der Sloot is still the prime suspect in that case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 05:00:01 AM
After the court decision not to rearrest Van der Sloot was affirmed, Twitty stated, "I think that what I do take comfort in, his life is a living hell",[144] later adding, "I'd be good with a Midnight Express prison anywhere for Joran." --Beth, per Wikipedia, Natalee Holloway.

Do you think Beth really said that? I don't recall. I thought it was astonishing, given what's happened ...

I don't remember that, but I do remember her wanting to rip the skin off of his face.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 05:02:43 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

Paulus created all the legal jumble...I'm sure he threatened some...some were friends, like van der Stratten...some he held their own bad deeds over their heads.

I've always thought that a lot of what was going on was that if certain things were told that Joran or members of Joran's family...specifically dad...might get killed. 

With dad deceased, and Joran in such bad trouble, I hope he will slip up and tell something that will start the whole house of cards to come tumbling down.  If Joran tells any truth, I do believe we will see a really big crash.

Folks on Aruba are vested in not piling on Joran because they've confused the world for 5 whole years and if/when stuff starts coming out and getting checked into...tons of people are in trouble.

I sure hope it happens!  Joran has a week in jail in Lima, but after that he's going to prison to await trial.  THAT will be a huge shock.  He loves to talk...wonder how long it will take him to spill the beans?



Truth serum cocktails with all meals.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 05:04:06 AM
I had forgotten all that Beth said after she saw the DeVries video, but it's amazing what she foretold and how she had Joran pegged in it. Her comments are astonishing!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 05:07:11 AM
After the court decision not to rearrest Van der Sloot was affirmed, Twitty stated, "I think that what I do take comfort in, his life is a living hell",[144] later adding, "I'd be good with a Midnight Express prison anywhere for Joran." --Beth, per Wikipedia, Natalee Holloway.

Do you think Beth really said that? I don't recall. I thought it was astonishing, given what's happened ...

I don't remember that, but I do remember her wanting to rip the skin off of his face.



I remember that, too; in fact, it's one of Beth's statements that I think of often...because it was such a befitting statement even then and more so now.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jesdamala on June 07, 2010, 05:14:07 AM
It gave me chills as well.  I am not a member of the 'club' she was forced to join, thankfully. The 'club' of family of missing and murdered children.   He made her life a living hell for a long time.  He really went all out to torture her.  Laughing all the way.


Yes he did! Beth said something similar to DeVries when she watched the video of Joran and Patrick. She said his life would be Hell from that point on. The "Midnight Express" prison was news to me.

I remember that interview, and the "living hell" part, but "Midnight Express" -- astonishing. This all just gets curiouser and curiouser.



Could someone have gone into Wiki and added that recently, considering where most of us think Joran is heading?  Even if she didn't say it, maybe she was thinking it, with good reason.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 05:20:59 AM
Beth says........... "His life is a living Hell. It's about to begin."  With these new developments, this is worth watching again. If there is an ad at the bottom, just close the ad out:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zogNuBp9PDk&hl=en_US&fs=1&

I was upset that PdV showed Beth the tape while she was on camera, that was for money and ratings, imo.  She was in shock and anything could have happened.  I have always wanted to go through the screen and hold her hand or comfort her, how could he just sit there?  Jug must have been out of his mind watching her suffer like that.  First, the story would make anyone upset, but secondly, he must have wanted to be there for her.  He still cares so much about her, that is so clear.

She looks around to try to get a private moment and can't.  The pain she is feeling is just incredible and she should have been able to grieve in private.  I hate that she has no one there for her.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 05:26:07 AM
Beth says........... "His life is a living Hell. It's about to begin."  With these new developments, this is worth watching again. If there is an ad at the bottom, just close the ad out:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zogNuBp9PDk&hl=en_US&fs=1&

I was upset that PdV showed Beth the tape while she was on camera, that was for money and ratings, imo.  She was in shock and anything could have happened.  I have always wanted to go through the screen and hold her hand or comfort her, how could he just sit there?  Jug must have been out of his mind watching her suffer like that.  First, the story would make anyone upset, but secondly, he must have wanted to be there for her.  He still cares so much about her, that is so clear.

She looks around to try to get a private moment and can't.  The pain she is feeling is just incredible and she should have been able to grieve in private.  I hate that she has no one there for her.



Grace under the most extreme fire...truly strong.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 05:26:53 AM
I have/had the same thoughts, Bearly. She scrunches up almost away from him but cannot pull herself away from what she's hearing. She was put through Hell from the day she got the call.

There is solace here though. This is the day she turned a corner. This is the day her journey back began. It's also the day Joran's life took a dive that has landed him now, at the bottom.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jesdamala on June 07, 2010, 05:29:38 AM
Beth says........... "His life is a living Hell. It's about to begin."  With these new developments, this is worth watching again. If there is an ad at the bottom, just close the ad out:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zogNuBp9PDk&hl=en_US&fs=1&

I was upset that PdV showed Beth the tape while she was on camera, that was for money and ratings, imo.  She was in shock and anything could have happened.  I have always wanted to go through the screen and hold her hand or comfort her, how could he just sit there?  Jug must have been out of his mind watching her suffer like that.  First, the story would make anyone upset, but secondly, he must have wanted to be there for her.  He still cares so much about her, that is so clear.

She looks around to try to get a private moment and can't.  The pain she is feeling is just incredible and she should have been able to grieve in private.  I hate that she has no one there for her.



Grace under the most extreme fire...truly strong.



This hurts!  Very painful to watch.  Imagine living it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 05:30:25 AM
I've got to grab some sleep. Monkey Hugs to you all! Sleep Well when you turn in and God Bless!


(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/NatbirdStephany2.gif)

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE AND STEPHANY!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 05:35:04 AM
As Jesdamala mentioned - There is that Wiki whacko who makes sure the Natalee Holloway topic promotes Aruba, mentions all possible theories, talks about Natalee drinking, drugs, "Holiday Inn told them to never come back" etc.

The site has been updated with last week's events.

But might s/he have just made up the "Midnight Express" part? I just looked at the transcript of the PdV interview with Beth, and also the Larry King interview transcript. I don't see that specific quote. (Wish I knew how the SM Search works. I am usually an EPIC FAIL with it.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 05:41:49 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)

The "Hang 'm high" article on the site of the Telegraaf, was about what the Peruvian press wrote about Joran.

Yes, I know. "Hang 'Em High" was a Clint Eastwood Western (don't know if it was one of the "spaghetti westerns"). Just thought it was funny that a Dutch newspaper would use it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 05:48:05 AM
As Jesdamala mentioned - There is that Wiki whacko who makes sure the Natalee Holloway topic promotes Aruba, mentions all possible theories, talks about Natalee drinking, drugs, "Holiday Inn told them to never come back" etc.

The site has been updated with last week's events.

But might s/he have just made up the "Midnight Express" part? I just looked at the transcript of the PdV interview with Beth, and also the Larry King interview transcript. I don't see that specific quote. (Wish I knew how the SM Search works. I am usually an EPIC FAIL with it.)

Actually, I have memory of it. I think she did say it.

Right about the time of the big Mr. Deep Freeze special.

Early 2008. She was frickin` spittin` nails mad... and I was too, watching it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 05:48:17 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments about my chat room questions during the Steph Watts show.  For those who weren't listening...my questions were not acknowledged by anyone that could have answered them.  

I'd typed a whole big long response about it while the threads were changing, so I lost it.  I'm not typing it all over again!  At least not until after I finish listening to Dana, and take a long hot shower.  

THANK YOU SO MUCH Sleuth for the recap of Steph's show!  

Other than what Dave said, God bless him, I got lost in all the confusion..lol.  Of course when I started reading your transcription it started coming back to me.  I'm going to try to listen to it again later.

I certainly appreciate Steph bringing all the guests on for us to hear, but he could really take some lessons from Dana.

Dana's the BEST!  :monkeyheart:



Please forgive me for being so late with thanks.

Sleuth, I meant to thank you earlier for the recaps. Thank you. It is always great to have you here.

Northern Rose, you have done a remarkable job keeping up with all of the stories and providing links.  Thanks, and hats off to you.

Klaas, thank you for all the pictures, and thanks for being the tyrannical ruler you are!

For all of the monkeys who are here helping to get the story in the cage, so it can get out to others, a big Thank you.

Rob, thanks for the updates about things that are going on off-camera.

Carpe, thanks for the loving arms I see you wrap around both Natalee and Beth, your family is very lucky to have you.

TM, thanks for holding the fort when others could not be there.

Old Monkeys showing their faces, I have missed you more than you will know, that includes the new old monkeys and the old old monkeys.  It's good to see your face in the place.

I pray that this brutal criminal is now taken from our society forever, never to show his evil face in public again. I pray that all women are now safe from him.   

I pray for all women/men/children so they will be safe from predators and from abuse forever.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 05:52:21 AM
It was about the same time she called him an SOB, and blew my hat in the creek.

I don`t blame ya, Beth.

I would have hunted him down and killed the little bastard.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 05:56:45 AM
As Jesdamala mentioned - There is that Wiki whacko who makes sure the Natalee Holloway topic promotes Aruba, mentions all possible theories, talks about Natalee drinking, drugs, "Holiday Inn told them to never come back" etc.

The site has been updated with last week's events.

But might s/he have just made up the "Midnight Express" part? I just looked at the transcript of the PdV interview with Beth, and also the Larry King interview transcript. I don't see that specific quote. (Wish I knew how the SM Search works. I am usually an EPIC FAIL with it.)

I think that, too.  I thought our search engine was turned off due to the high traffic.  Maybe you can google it.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 05:58:50 AM
As Jesdamala mentioned - There is that Wiki whacko who makes sure the Natalee Holloway topic promotes Aruba, mentions all possible theories, talks about Natalee drinking, drugs, "Holiday Inn told them to never come back" etc.

The site has been updated with last week's events.

But might s/he have just made up the "Midnight Express" part? I just looked at the transcript of the PdV interview with Beth, and also the Larry King interview transcript. I don't see that specific quote. (Wish I knew how the SM Search works. I am usually an EPIC FAIL with it.)

Actually, I have memory of it. I think she did say it.

Right about the time of the big Mr. Deep Freeze special.

Early 2008. She was frickin` spittin` nails mad... and I was too, watching it.

Could be, I have never seen ME, so it would not have registered with me.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 06:07:03 AM
JvdS's Body Language

http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 06:08:19 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 06:09:40 AM
Quote
"Joran killed Stephany with tennis racket '
Monday, June 7, 2010 9:42

Stephany Flores Ramírez probably have been killed with a tennis racket. They would be deceased by a broken neck. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) is suspected of murder. Stephany autopsy revealed that no sexual contact has been with Joran.

Joran van der Sloot was arrested in Chile and extradited to Peru

Amongst serious criminals
If Joran after one week from the police cell is released, he is at the Castro Castro prison in the Peruvian capital Lima on top. In Castro Castro are the serious criminals, found guilty of rape and murder. The newspaper Correo Post described a few years ago how some rapists of minors in Castro Castro come to their end at the hands of fellow inmates.

That the Peruvian police to inform further research, reports The Associated Press Monday. "All the evidence suggests that [Joran] Stephany killed," said the chief of the Criminal Investigation Service.

Thus, under the fingernails of the murdered girl found skin tissue. Police have video that shows how the hotel room where Joran lived with Stephany, smeared with blood. Traces of blood were found on the bed, the floor and in the bathroom.

Stephany autopsy revealed that shortly before she was killed had no sexual contact. She was not raped or drugged by Joran.

Details
About the crime are becoming more detail out. Thus, an Albanian poker player, who lived in Peru and much of Joran appointment, the authorities have asked the hotel room watching. She has since been found dead.

The man, the 35-year-old Elton Garcia, not as suspects, but even he can not leave Peru temporarily. He explained to the police with Stephany and Joran have play poker.

Abducted
When Joran on Tuesday, two days after the murder, did not show up at an appointment, Garcia started to worry. He thought they were both kidnapped. On the night of Wednesday the man asked the Director of the Atlantic City casino to call the hotel and the room of Joran. As a result, later that night Stephany found.

Garcia says "absolutely not friends" to be with Joran. "I know him only by sight because we pokerden together to free table in Atlantic City casinos."

Holloway
It is also known that Joran all 15,000 of the 250,000 euros demanded by it had received from the Holloway family, for details on the location of Natalee's body, the American teenager who disappeared in 2005. This shows in the U.S. indictment against Van der Sloot. Internet fraud and extortion at state in the United States up to fifty years imprisonment.

Joran promised the families of the missing girl , after paying the full amount, the physical remains to be identified.

With the 15,000 euro Joran had enough money to travel to Peru, the country where he is suspected of the murder of Stephany .

By Jeroen Langelaar

http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Nederland/267551/Joran-vermoordde-Stephany-met-tennisracket.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 06:15:31 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)


Wow!  How did you find it?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 06:18:28 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)


Very good monkey sleuthing!!  Thanks!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 06:21:15 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)


Wow!  How did you find it?



Googled "Midnight Express" + "Beth Holloway"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 06:22:54 AM
Aruba adds this to the Beth/Stephany conspiracy theory in 3-2-1 ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 06:25:26 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.
I was under the impression that if they can prove there was also robbery involved, he would get life.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 06:27:53 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.
I was under the impression that if they can prove there was also robbery involved, he would get life.

True. Murdering someone gets you 25-35 years, robbing and murdering someone gets you life.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on June 07, 2010, 06:28:42 AM
http://blog.al.com/sweethome/2010/06/natalee_holloways_mother_beth.html
Natalee Holloway's mother Beth Holloway co-founds resource center to open in Washington
By Mary Orndorff -- The Birmingham News
June 07, 2010, 5:00AM
(http://media.al.com/spotnews/photo/beth-hollowayjpg-06c98ad9e84b0bf7_small.jpg)
Beth Holloway co-founded the Natalee Holloway Resource Center. It opens Tuesday in Washington, D.C.

The Natalee Holloway Resource Center opens Tuesday night in Washington, D.C., where families of missing persons can get help managing their crisis, and high school and college students can get advice for traveling safely.

  Named for the Mountain Brook teenager who disappeared five years ago on a class trip to Aruba, the nonprofit center at the National Museum of Crime and Punishment was co-founded by Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway.

  The center's opening comes just as Holloway's case has returned to the international spotlight with the arrest of Joran van der Sloot in the death of a woman in Peru. He was the main suspect in Holloway's case, and was charged by federal prosecutors in Birmingham last week with trying to extort $250,000 from someone in exchange for information about what happened to the girl.

  Beth Holloway partnered with museum officials after they added Natalee's case to the unsolved section of the museum last year, said Janine Vaccarello, chief operating officer of the museum and co-founder of the Holloway center.

  "Beth made a list of what she went through when Natalee was first reported missing and most of the things had to do with her not having resources," Vaccarello said. "It was about her not knowing what to do next."

  The center will perform administrative tasks and provide advice, she said.
The first phone call a family should make about their missing loved one is to the police, and Vaccarello wants their second call to be to the center. A 24-hour call center, donated by an Orlando law firm and staffed by trained personnel, will help that family navigate the process of gathering information about the missing person and provide it to the media to get the word out as quickly and accurately as possible.

  "We'll send out the press release, contact their senators and congressmen, provide phone numbers for U.S. embassies ... or the American Red Cross if that's what they need," Vaccarello said.

  A second mission of the center is education, and helping teachers, parents and students prepare to travel safely.

  "It is geared for teachers and groups with Natalee in mind," Vaccarello said. "It would be great if teachers could make it a homework assignment."

  The curriculum will be available free on the center's website, www.helpthemissing.org.

  The opening night reception and fundraiser is Tuesday evening at the museum, near Chinatown in downtown Washington, and is open to the public. Beth Holloway will host a press conference earlier in the day.

  Vaccarello said the center will operate on cash donations and donated services at first, but it may eventually seek federal funds.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 06:38:12 AM
"He speaks very good Spanish, is a mythomaniac, a hypocrite, this is a person who has experience to lie," said Col. Miguel Canlla, head of the Homicide Division. Van der Sloot psychologists have said that this is a psychopath. "It looks friendly and harmless to facilitate the seduction and subsequent killing of their victims," says the psychotherapist Manuel Saravia, who adds that they "tend to repeat the procedure for their crimes in different places."

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490567/caso-van-der-sloot-abre-discusion-sobre-nuevas-relaciones-entre-jovenes



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 06:49:02 AM
One last post, then I've gotta leave.

In the Comments at a Peru site, someone mentioned that the hotel is owned by Chinese. They are not understanding why no one checked the room for what, 2 or 3 days?

The hotel looks like a flea bag, but it might be "nice" by Peru standards. Don't mean to offend, I just don't know much about Peru.

Also - some were discussing leaving passports at the front desk. There are two reasons: helps prevent skipping on the bill, and also - there is a big black market for stolen passports. If your passport is stolen (or lost) it isn't easy to resume your travel. I think the hotel doesn't want to be stuck with a guest in the real sense of the word "guest" while the embassy or consulate gets you something to travel with.

Since Joran left his passport behind, and turned up in another country (Chile), it really points to "guilty flight." It's in the same bucket of circumstantial evidence as his make over.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 06:55:26 AM
Former attorney questioned Joran van der Sloot tests involving the murder of Stephany Dutchman Flores (with video)

Joseph Tacopina hinted that a third person would be responsible for murder. Also expressed its surprise that the body has been found in the room just three days after the crime

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" Asked the renowned lawyer Joseph Tacopina to question one of the strongest proofs that involve the citizen Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the murder of the young Stephany Flores occurred on Sunday 30 May.

Joseph Tacopina, who successfully defended Van der Sloot in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl five years ago, referred to the fact that the Dutchman admitted with Stephany Flores Tac Miraflores hotel early 30 May, but was only hours later, according to security video showed the accommodation.

Thus, the lawyer also defended the late King of Pop Michael Jackson hinted that a third person would be responsible for crime.

In a telephone conversation from New York with the TV program "Panorama", Joseph Tacopina also expressed surprise at the time that passed between the alleged day of the murder and the discovery of the body of Stephany.

More soon ....

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490841/ex-abogado-joran-cuestiona-pruebas-que-involucran-holandes-asesinato-stephany

Poor Joey .... He just won't admit he knows Joran is a killer...even when he is not representing him..... pathetic. Joey, WE may not know who was in the room, but you can bet your boots w/ a camera that close to the door -- that the authorities know how many people went in and out of that room ;) Joey, ya make me want to puke.......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 06:56:38 AM
Quote
"Joran killed Stephany with tennis racket '
Monday, June 7, 2010 9:42

Stephany Flores Ramírez probably have been killed with a tennis racket. They would be deceased by a broken neck. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) is suspected of murder. Stephany autopsy revealed that no sexual contact has been with Joran.

Joran van der Sloot was arrested in Chile and extradited to Peru

Amongst serious criminals
If Joran after one week from the police cell is released, he is at the Castro Castro prison in the Peruvian capital Lima on top. In Castro Castro are the serious criminals, found guilty of rape and murder. The newspaper Correo Post described a few years ago how some rapists of minors in Castro Castro come to their end at the hands of fellow inmates.

That the Peruvian police to inform further research, reports The Associated Press Monday. "All the evidence suggests that [Joran] Stephany killed," said the chief of the Criminal Investigation Service.

Thus, under the fingernails of the murdered girl found skin tissue. Police have video that shows how the hotel room where Joran lived with Stephany, smeared with blood. Traces of blood were found on the bed, the floor and in the bathroom.

Stephany autopsy revealed that shortly before she was killed had no sexual contact. She was not raped or drugged by Joran.

Details
About the crime are becoming more detail out. Thus, an Albanian poker player, who lived in Peru and much of Joran appointment, the authorities have asked the hotel room watching. She has since been found dead.

The man, the 35-year-old Elton Garcia, not as suspects, but even he can not leave Peru temporarily. He explained to the police with Stephany and Joran have play poker.

Abducted
When Joran on Tuesday, two days after the murder, did not show up at an appointment, Garcia started to worry. He thought they were both kidnapped. On the night of Wednesday the man asked the Director of the Atlantic City casino to call the hotel and the room of Joran. As a result, later that night Stephany found.

Garcia says "absolutely not friends" to be with Joran. "I know him only by sight because we pokerden together to free table in Atlantic City casinos."

Holloway
It is also known that Joran all 15,000 of the 250,000 euros demanded by it had received from the Holloway family, for details on the location of Natalee's body, the American teenager who disappeared in 2005. This shows in the U.S. indictment against Van der Sloot. Internet fraud and extortion at state in the United States up to fifty years imprisonment.

Joran promised the families of the missing girl , after paying the full amount, the physical remains to be identified.

With the 15,000 euro Joran had enough money to travel to Peru, the country where he is suspected of the murder of Stephany .

By Jeroen Langelaar

http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Nederland/267551/Joran-vermoordde-Stephany-met-tennisracket.htm

There have not been enough days for toxicology tests to come back.

I thought they said she had no signs of rape, but they were checking to see if there was any semen on her body or clothes.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 07, 2010, 06:58:14 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)


Wow!  How did you find it?



Googled "Midnight Express" + "Beth Holloway"

Great job!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 06:58:19 AM
Lawyers advised Joran
Two assisting counsel represented him in Office and Dirincri, but calls a lawyer Dutchman. His backpack was found  a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating.

The Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, 22, feels increasingly cornered. So, now struggling to communicate with his mother and getting a lawyer to free him from Dutchman a tough sentence which could be many years in a prison in our country. The young man is guarded by four policemen in the cells of the Dirincri. The officials said that note was tense.

LAWYERS. The public defender advised Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid abroad in the Public Ministry. Perú.21 spoke with the lawyer, who narrated that the Van Der Sloot to ask about the charges against him there, he replied: "Yes, Stephany Flores's death."

"He said he wanted to communicate with her mother and needed a lawyer from the country and not trade.
Yet he counseled and asked if he had a friend in Peru, and Uruguay Elton responded that Garcia "he said.

Meanwhile, during his statement to the police in Dirincri, which lasted until dawn yesterday, another public defender, Carla Odria, as advised in this process. "I can not declare in advance because the process still continues," he said in succinct when asked about the coach.

"OTHER EVIDENCE? Also, yesterday released a video where you can see the time police searched the belongings of the Dutchman. Among them was a laptop HP brand and various notes and coins in Chile, Bolivia and Peru.

The experts are investigating the origin of the machine, as the father of Stephany, Ricardo Flores, said that one day before the murder he gave his daughter a thousand dollars to buy the unit. Police carried out a confrontation with hotel employees TAC, Miraflores, who corroborated that enter the Dutchman saw Stephany, on Sunday 30 May.

Today you could have the integral result of the autopsy that was performed on the victim. In this way you can determine whether she was raped or not.

Meanwhile, Joseph Tacopina, a former Van Der Sloot attorney who successfully defended in the case of the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, questioned via telephone communication with the Panorama program, the Dutchman evidence implicating the crime in Lima .

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" He asked. He also expressed his surprise at the time that passed between the day of the murder and the discovery of the body.

http://peru21.pe/impresa/noticia/abogadas-asesoraron-joran/2010-06-07/276910
ARGH, now they are saying it isn't Joran's laptop they got from his backpack, it was Stephany's. "His backpack was found a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating."
So, does anyone know if they have been able to recover the things Joran says are in some Chilean hotel room? Things like his credit cards, etc?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 07:40:53 AM
Morning all.

Back on page 7 pr 8 Mags posted that Tim Miller has two new targets - the pond at Monstraat and Bubali - she got that from CBS 42, thanks for that Mags, you're a doll!

While I agree with Red that - it has to be done, and with Tim - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't (I think Tim said that - if not it was Dave), I think it's more than obvious that Janet's "Power's that Be" are not going to allow anyone to search anywhere Natalee may truly lie.

No one is gonna let this case willing chew it's way up the food chain. It's silly to think that this "new witness" - twice polygraphed - is some sort of great guy as described by Tim. Sorry to say, and believe me, I DO respect Tim and all he has done for Natalee and so many others. Look at my sig line - that's been there since day one.

Tim has known TJ Ward for years - they were on Aruba together, if this new witness is so reliable - why didn't Tim have him LVA'd? Tim had Misty Croslin LVA'd. And TJ did it I know - I posted the LVA results.

This case is not going to go from Joran, Paulus, Deepak and Satish to Steve Croes to van der Straaten to the Aruban police department to the Prosecutor's office to the Prime Minister to the Nederlands. You know how many heads would roll?

It would be a calamity that would strain international relations. And yes, international relations are already strained. But it hasn't risen to more than just the people that follow this case. I seriously doubt that the State dept, with their "let's all get along" mentality is ready to let this go gangrene and kill Holland and what's left of Aruba.

Believe me, I would love that - but I'm also a realist. If Holland and the US can contain this to Joran and a dead Paulus - they would love that. But that's not the truth and everyone knows it. I WANT the truth no matter where that goes - that's why I'm still here, but I'm not gonna buy that it's just Joran and a dead Paulus that had the power or pull to make this entire travesty occur.

Tim can search wherever Natalee is not, and how many times are they going to search this lil Monstraat pond? That's a waste of time and money.

I also realize that these stupid Arubans could place her body somewhere to be found, but if that's the plan - they would have done that years ago and it would have been on the beach where she buried herself under 8 feet of sand and was uncovered when a hurricane passed by. Clear up that crab trap - that's where most of the answers lie.

Why didn't the Arubans search Monstraat? Why not Bubali? See, when Renho knows the plan you know it's a lie. As lazy and as incompetent as the Arubans are - they can still put on a pair of boots and gloves and search on their own. This non-sense could go on for years as the ponds and location shift all over the island as "new witnesses and new tips" come in. Eating up money and time. Even if they did search it - don't you think they would have recovered Natalee and made her disappear again to prevent the case from ever progressing? See, they just don't want to deal with it.

Somethings are universal - Aruban stupidity and the Aruban Hokie Pokie.







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 08:16:20 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?


Well, since I never saw her grieving over Paulus's death, I imagine she will continue with life as usual, playing Bingo, not instilling good values in Sebastian, cohooting with the likes of Renho, and every other doofus on the Island who will have her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 08:19:36 AM
He would have killed for money
 
New hypothesis. Police points to the bank accounts of Stephany Flores. Agents of the Homicide Division say Joran van der Sloot was able to force the girl to withdraw money or make a bank transfer.

One week before the murder of Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez, the police still can not decipher a great mystery: why this crime. However, officers of the Homicide Division who boast of not discarding any hypothesis, now point to the bank accounts of the victim.

Researchers are almost convinced that, after being seduced by Joran van der Sloot, the young woman was allegedly forced him to make withdrawals of cash or bank transfer.

It is likely that the decline has been beaten to death on the morning of May 30.

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/la-habria-asesinado-por-dinero



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 08:24:50 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



Yes, and Natalee was supposed to be a virgin.  That may have been important to her so she fought extra hard.  It all becomes clearer now.  I could not believe anyone had that much rage in him, but now I can.  I feel numb about this whole thing, angry, teary-eyed, and shocked. 

If he was arrested and put in jail in the US for extortion, those in Aruba who worship him would have thought it was a setup.  This way there is no doubt of his guilt.  I am so so sorry that Stephany became yet another victim of the Joran Rage Machine.  He should have been off the streets long ago.  He should have been locked up in a mental institution after brutally murdering his dog.

I wonder why he killed the dog so brutally?  Did the dog refuse to listen to one of his commands?  Why would anyone kill their own dog?  Brutally kill your pet, why?  He should have been locked up a long time ago.

The prison system he is in gives me no comfort, I don't want to know he is being brutalized either.  I am very relieved he is locked up and off the streets, I think he deserves punishment and to be locked up the rest of his life with no privileges.  I think 3 meals is too much for him.  I would like to see him without any comforts, computer, TV, cell phone, but I do not want to see him brutalized.  I think I am in the minority, but I don't want to ever become the animal he is, taking pleasure in the torture of another human being.


The whole world is watching Peru and how they handle this monster. For 7 days, he will will get 3 hots and a cot, but after that, it will be sheer Hell. They do not want to do anything that will jeopardize being able to prosecute this sorry excuse for a human being We have no idea what is going on in the interrogations room, but we can rest assured if he keeps playing stupid, there is going to be Hell to pay.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 08:25:23 AM
Lawyers advised Joran
Two assisting counsel represented him in Office and Dirincri, but calls a lawyer Dutchman. His backpack was found  a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating.

The Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, 22, feels increasingly cornered. So, now struggling to communicate with his mother and getting a lawyer to free him from Dutchman a tough sentence which could be many years in a prison in our country. The young man is guarded by four policemen in the cells of the Dirincri. The officials said that note was tense.

LAWYERS. The public defender advised Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid abroad in the Public Ministry. Perú.21 spoke with the lawyer, who narrated that the Van Der Sloot to ask about the charges against him there, he replied: "Yes, Stephany Flores's death."

"He said he wanted to communicate with her mother and needed a lawyer from the country and not trade.
Yet he counseled and asked if he had a friend in Peru, and Uruguay Elton responded that Garcia "he said.

Meanwhile, during his statement to the police in Dirincri, which lasted until dawn yesterday, another public defender, Carla Odria, as advised in this process. "I can not declare in advance because the process still continues," he said in succinct when asked about the coach.

"OTHER EVIDENCE? Also, yesterday released a video where you can see the time police searched the belongings of the Dutchman. Among them was a laptop HP brand and various notes and coins in Chile, Bolivia and Peru.

The experts are investigating the origin of the machine, as the father of Stephany, Ricardo Flores, said that one day before the murder he gave his daughter a thousand dollars to buy the unit. Police carried out a confrontation with hotel employees TAC, Miraflores, who corroborated that enter the Dutchman saw Stephany, on Sunday 30 May.

Today you could have the integral result of the autopsy that was performed on the victim. In this way you can determine whether she was raped or not.

Meanwhile, Joseph Tacopina, a former Van Der Sloot attorney who successfully defended in the case of the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, questioned via telephone communication with the Panorama program, the Dutchman evidence implicating the crime in Lima .

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" He asked. He also expressed his surprise at the time that passed between the day of the murder and the discovery of the body.

http://peru21.pe/impresa/noticia/abogadas-asesoraron-joran/2010-06-07/276910
ARGH, now they are saying it isn't Joran's laptop they got from his backpack, it was Stephany's. "His backpack was found a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating."
So, does anyone know if they have been able to recover the things Joran says are in some Chilean hotel room? Things like his credit cards, etc?

That must be another translation blurp...how would that be possible? When she left her home to go out w/ friends, would she have taken her laptop?? If so, where was it when they entered the Hotel room? Neither of them were carrying a laptop. This doesn't sound right to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 08:25:58 AM
I believe thius is the time of year that the Monserat pond is normally dry or very low on water.  But Fred Golba and his WonderDog already blasted much of it with fire hoses so not sure what good searching it again will do.  I wonder if these spots are supposed to be from the map provided by Joran.  In April per Glenda (ha!) or maybe just seized from Jaap last week.

I hope Tim Miller will have a copy of the map Jaap claims to have so he can search that.

If Glendo knows of some house being built on a site that Joran said is where the remains are located, why is this not being searched as well?

Leave no stone unturned should include any map given to Japp and this location where a house has supposedly been built.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 08:28:37 AM
Convincing evidence against Joran

Bert houses and Kieran Bald

LIMA (PERU) - Police in Peru today think all the first reports have traces that might indicate the involvement of Joran van der Sloot at the death of Stephany Flores.

Ricardo Flores, the father of the victim, points to Peruvian television Joran van der Sloot as the main suspect

"All the evidence suggests that he has killed Stephany," said Cesar Guardia, head of Criminal Investigation Department of police. Thus, the murdered Stephany presumably tissue under her fingernails. Police from exclusive footage of the medical examination of Joran on his body left no visible traces. Also bloody shoe prints between bed and bathroom are examined.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html
Guess he couldn't find a storm drain to dump his bloody shoes in.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:30:42 AM
From the Steph Watts show tonight - thanks Sleuth!

Will there be a transcript anywhere later?

Recap – sorry, names may be spelled wrong.  This is NOT a transcript and is paraphrased.

Dave has not spoken to any media prior to this.
  SNIPPED

Good Morning Monks!  SLEUTH THANK YOU...good to see you in the cage.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wingnut on June 07, 2010, 08:33:39 AM
CBS/42 Birmingham had Jossy on by phone.

Jossy said that Aruba had enough evidence to prosecute but failed to do so.
Two new searches are planned.  One at the bird sanctuary and one at the Monserrat Pond.
He said that Deepak and Satish should be very worried.  Talk is that Joran will bargin for
a better prison in Peru by giving up information on the Holloway case.

Then Jug was on and said that he was sure that Deepak knew what happened.
He was not sure about Satish.

If I were Deepak and Satish I would throw Joran under the bus right now and tell everything they know.  Blame him and Paulus for everything.

     They won't -- at least not yet.  It's not in their interest to do that right now.  Not currently charged with any crime, opening their mouths can only invite trouble.  If they were facing serious criminal prosecution, however, it would be a different story. 


However, when Joran caves - and he will - the Kalpoes' involvement may be "elevated".  Start singing Deepak.  Tell what you know before Joran tells what he "knows."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 08:34:07 AM
CBB, if you have time would you find the picture that iirc Misgivings posted of Stephany today and post it again?  I scrolled through most of the pages in this thread but I didn't find it.  I haven't put one in my photobucket yet, I promise to do it soon.

TIA  (((hugs))) wub you too!

Good night!


(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Stephany.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wingnut on June 07, 2010, 08:37:43 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/happycouplenot.png)

If it's already been said, sorry!  She appears to me to have a necklace on in this photo.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 08:42:27 AM
Rob, As you may already know, I am not convinced that was Natalee's remains in the fish trap.  I just don't know one way or the other.  Not a popular position to hold on this forum but I'm used to that from not believing the Lorenzo connection.

If that was Natalee in the trap, why wouldn't ALE have just removed any remains before the dive crew arrived?  I think they would have.  And they certainly would not have been providing coordinates if there was anything to be found.

But since ALE absconded with the contents, no one can know for sure, IMO.  But it has never made sense to me that ALE would say to dive there if there was really anything to be found.  Not their MO.

As for this witness and the pond, I thought as you did that this had already been checked by Golba. 

I'm not sure I understand what they are going to search this week or why.  But I guess the ole "can't hurt, might help applies"?  And it is more and more bad publicity for the flyspeck Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 08:44:20 AM
I am already sick of his Atty's crap....

LIMA, Peru, June 7, 2010
Van der Sloot Was to Turn Self In, Lawyer Claims
But Suspect Was Arrested Before He Got to, CBS News Is Told; He Faces Week of Grilling in Peruvian Police Headquarters

(CBS/ AP)  Joran van der Sloot intended to surrender but was arrested before he was able to, according to his Dutch lawyer.

Van der Sloot will spend all week at criminal police headquarters in Lima being questioned in the death of a 21-year-old Lima woman and has asked to be able to hire his own lawyer in Peru, authorities said Sunday.

snipped

Van der Sloot crossed into Chile last Monday, where he was arrested three days later.

But, reports CBS News Correspondent Jeff Glor, van der Sloot's lawyer in Holland contends van der Sloot was going to surrender.

Bert de Rooij told CBS News, "Just before he got arrested he e-mailed me that he would give himself in in the police station of Santiago, Chile, just before this he was arrested."

Police released video Saturday taken by security cameras at the hotel where van der Sloot had been staying since arriving from Colombia on May 14. It shows the two entering van der Sloot's room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later, carrying two bags.

The woman's battered body was found on the room's floor more than two days later. Authorities say her neck was broken.

"The only possessions of my daughter they found were her empty wallet and her cell phone," her father, circus empresario Ricardo Flores, said in TV interview Sunday night. "There wasn't a peso in her wallet."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/07/earlyshow/main6556483.shtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 08:45:18 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?



I think she'll react one of two ways

#1  Like Cindy Anthony and stand by her monster no matter what

#2  Pretend to the world that nothing has happened, go on with her life, post on Facebook, etc much like after the monster's father died


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 08:47:48 AM
Nut, Yeah and he bleached his hair so he would look extra nice for his surrender, I suppose.

Yes, I am already sixck of the sounds cxoming out of The Netherlands on this completely.

They need to realize that not everybody is more concerned with the rights of the criminal instead of the victim as they are.  We do understand their system and that's it.  Protect their own citizen and to hell with the victims.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 08:54:38 AM
Joran's lawyer and whomever is speaking for the Dutch embassy must be sociopaths just as Joran is if they think we believe their lies.  It has always amazed me how Joran so expects to be believed when he is not even a good liar and any 9 year old could tell he is lying.

Guess he found a lawyer just like himself.  Joran wanted to get to Santiago to blend in long enough to catch a flight to Suriname or some other Dutch protectorate so they could refuse to extradite him.

We are not nearly as stupid as some think we are.   And yeah, I am sure the lawyer told Joran to email him and say that but I don't believe Joran meant it for one minute and doubt that his lawyer even told him to really surrender. 

Lawyer probably said something like:  I have to tell you to surrender so send me an email that you will do that then run like hell for any Dutch territory you can get to before they can stop you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 08:55:32 AM
Rob, As you may already know, I am not convinced that was Natalee's remains in the fish trap.  I just don't know one way or the other.  Not a popular position to hold on this forum but I'm used to that from not believing the Lorenzo connection.

If that was Natalee in the trap, why wouldn't ALE have just removed any remains before the dive crew arrived?  I think they would have.  And they certainly would not have been providing coordinates if there was anything to be found.

But since ALE absconded with the contents, no one can know for sure, IMO.  But it has never made sense to me that ALE would say to dive there if there was really anything to be found.  Not their MO.

As for this witness and the pond, I thought as you did that this had already been checked by Golba. 

I'm not sure I understand what they are going to search this week or why.  But I guess the ole "can't hurt, might help applies"?  And it is more and more bad publicity for the flyspeck Aruba.

mornin' Anna,

I understand your position, and I agree with it. I don't know fer a certainty who was in that trap. It just fits most of what we know, and many of the elements seem to be there from what we have seen. I would just say - it's the best chance to date.

There is nothing in the Monstraat pond - nothing. Searching it again says - Fred Golba is not reliable.

Funny how Paului's Suzuki was confiscated - he was seen near the McDonald's and that's down the street from Bubali.

And this new witness is not new at all - it's two years old and he's a liar. I have no idea why Tim clings to this person.

I read somewhere on here - the Arubans want to help with Stephany's case. Yeah sure, how about helping with Natalee's. Shouldn't that be your priority. And Aruban help translates into - muck that case up too.

Wanna help - give TJ Ward all the case files, let him and Harold Copus bisect them and see what they can find - pay all of their expenses and let's see where that goes. There are ways to resolve this. This we know.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 08:57:03 AM
It gave me chills as well.  I am not a member of the 'club' she was forced to join, thankfully. The 'club' of family of missing and murdered children.   He made her life a living hell for a long time.  He really went all out to torture her.  Laughing all the way.


Yes he did! Beth said something similar to DeVries when she watched the video of Joran and Patrick. She said his life would be Hell from that point on. The "Midnight Express" prison was news to me.

I remember that interview, and the "living hell" part, but "Midnight Express" -- astonishing. This all just gets curiouser and curiouser.



The person doing a lot of editing to the Wiki is a member of RefugeesUnleashed, need I say more?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 09:00:31 AM
He would have killed for money
 
New hypothesis. Police points to the bank accounts of Stephany Flores. Agents of the Homicide Division say Joran van der Sloot was able to force the girl to withdraw money or make a bank transfer.

One week before the murder of Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez, the police still can not decipher a great mystery: why this crime. However, officers of the Homicide Division who boast of not discarding any hypothesis, now point to the bank accounts of the victim.

Researchers are almost convinced that, after being seduced by Joran van der Sloot, the young woman was allegedly forced him to make withdrawals of cash or bank transfer.

It is likely that the decline has been beaten to death on the morning of May 30.

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/la-habria-asesinado-por-dinero


Yup, I really believe she went with with Joran willingly under the guise of getting her money back.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: can on June 07, 2010, 09:01:24 AM
He would have killed for money
 
New hypothesis. Police points to the bank accounts of Stephany Flores. Agents of the Homicide Division say Joran van der Sloot was able to force the girl to withdraw money or make a bank transfer.

One week before the murder of Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez, the police still can not decipher a great mystery: why this crime. However, officers of the Homicide Division who boast of not discarding any hypothesis, now point to the bank accounts of the victim.

Researchers are almost convinced that, after being seduced by Joran van der Sloot, the young woman was allegedly forced him to make withdrawals of cash or bank transfer.

It is likely that the decline has been beaten to death on the morning of May 30.

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/la-habria-asesinado-por-dinero



Good morning Jo-An.
Thanks for the information.
My gawd - forced to withdraw money?   
I wonder if the term seduced, means she was drugged and not under her own will?




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 09:04:03 AM
Monstraat pond for those that may not have seen it. *I'm not even sure I'm spelling that correctly* lol

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/destinypondpicture2.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/pondfromdes2-1.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/POND46.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/POND27.jpg)

Coordinates provided by Kyle Kingman
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/pond8.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 09:04:53 AM
I don't think the cover up will fall like a house of cards at all because no matter what is found to have happened, Aruba/Netherlands won't do anything to anybody no matter how badly the may have deliberately obstructed justice.

Aruba will say they are conducting an investigation and then do nothing or even say mistakes were made, what a shame and not do anything at all.  Not to anybody even if they participate to the extent of disposing of remains.

The only way I think anything would ever actually be done is for Interpol to do it and they have to be "invited" and we know Aruba will never do that nor will the Dutch order it done.  I wonder if the U.S. could ask for an Interpol investigation into corruption now with Aruba allowing Joran to sneak off the island with the extradition warrant due any day?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 07, 2010, 09:05:31 AM
Blood on shirt 'vampire' Joran

It says they found blood of stephany with luminol on his clothes, in the bathtub and on the bed. And traces on the pokerchips from the casino.

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488680/2010/06/07/Bloed-op-shirt-vampier-Joran.dhtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: can on June 07, 2010, 09:07:17 AM
Good morning Nut,
I think it's possible that Stefany purchased a new laptop that her Dad gave her money for, and left it in her car.  Joran drove the car when he left the hotel and took what he wanted from it.  imo

While it would be more evidence, I wish and hope they have Joran's laptop.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 09:09:27 AM
ooooooooo........ okay can, thanks. I remember that now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 09:09:40 AM
Good morning Nut,
I think it's possible that Stefany purchased a new laptop that her Dad gave her money for, and left it in her car.  Joran drove the car when he left the hotel and took what he wanted from it.  imo

While it would be more evidence, I wish and hope they have Joran's laptop.



Morning, Can and belatedly to all.

Sure sounds like Grand Theft--Auto to me as well.  I mean since they need robbery to apply the life sentence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:12:32 AM
Looks like SOME Arubans realize they cannot stick their heads in the sand THIS TIME:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/margaretwever?v=wall

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/WeverFacebook.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 09:12:56 AM
Blood on shirt 'vampire' Joran

It says they found blood of stephany with luminol on his clothes, in the bathtub and on the bed. And traces on the pokerchips from the casino.

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488680/2010/06/07/Bloed-op-shirt-vampier-Joran.dhtml



I have been wondering how he got the money Stephany had just won, the alleged $5,000.  Maybe it was in the form of poker chips, like ones for large amounts of $1000 each so she could have only been carrying five chips or so?  And Joran wanted to steal those chips and cash them.

Just thinking outloud. . . off to get breakfast now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: can on June 07, 2010, 09:15:55 AM
Good morning Nut,
I think it's possible that Stefany purchased a new laptop that her Dad gave her money for, and left it in her car.  Joran drove the car when he left the hotel and took what he wanted from it.  imo

While it would be more evidence, I wish and hope they have Joran's laptop.



Morning, Can and belatedly to all.

Sure sounds like Grand Theft--Auto to me as well.  I mean since they need robbery to apply the life sentence.

Hi Anna.  Yes, they've got their extenuating circumstances to lock him up for life.  25-35 years is too good for Joran (not that I believe he'd survive that in their prison system)

I so want them to have his laptop.  It may lead to Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 09:18:20 AM
Looks like SOME Arubans realize they cannot stick their heads in the sand THIS TIME:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/margaretwever?v=wall

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/WeverFacebook.jpg)

light the fires, bang the drums, and then vomit on yourself


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:18:54 AM
Blood on shirt 'vampire' Joran

It says they found blood of stephany with luminol on his clothes, in the bathtub and on the bed. And traces on the pokerchips from the casino.

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488680/2010/06/07/Bloed-op-shirt-vampier-Joran.dhtml

Thanks - I ran the whole article through the translator:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/adJoran060710a.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 09:24:44 AM
Aruba is a gutter, I think I was there at the very end of the glory days - when tourists were really treated well. But from my first visit to my last - I saw the changes. Believe it or not - tourist used to be considered paying customers - not like today's entitlement to American dollars.

Now it's robbery, drug dealers on every corner in Chollerstad, faulty ATV and diving equipment, and if you all remember the pics and video from Beth and Greta's last visit it has turned into a super-sized slum.

Let's not forget all the drunk driving and the tourist that was killed and Jerry Strawberry's vehicular homicide. And he wasn't even giving a breathalyzer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 09:28:10 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)


Wow!  How did you find it?



Googled "Midnight Express" + "Beth Holloway"

BUMP. This is just so ... weird.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 09:28:44 AM
Good morning Nut,
I think it's possible that Stefany purchased a new laptop that her Dad gave her money for, and left it in her car.  Joran drove the car when he left the hotel and took what he wanted from it.  imo

While it would be more evidence, I wish and hope they have Joran's laptop.



Morning, Can and belatedly to all.

Sure sounds like Grand Theft--Auto to me as well.  I mean since they need robbery to apply the life sentence.

Hi Anna.  Yes, they've got their extenuating circumstances to lock him up for life.  25-35 years is too good for Joran (not that I believe he'd survive that in their prison system)

I so want them to have his laptop.  It may lead to Natalee.

a one year sentence is a death sentence for Joran. He's not going to last a year in that prison. He's soft - like a marshmellow. I take great joy in knowing that.

-jmo-


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 07, 2010, 09:32:02 AM
By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:33:36 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)


Wow!  How did you find it?



Googled "Midnight Express" + "Beth Holloway"

BUMP. This is just so ... weird.

Would be even weirder if Joran had been caught in TURKEY ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 07, 2010, 09:33:38 AM
aruba is a garbage dump and i will continue  every chance i get  in any way possible explaning to people that its a killing ground.

 ** it sucks **     

gutless - everyone of them that was involved in the  dis-investigation and mis information campaign. not a single one of them actually did any good, just more cover ups time after time.


now, back to the slug joran for a moment, after watching the video of the two of them going
into the hotel room, i suspect that he maybe told her some lies and was extorting her
in the way that he was telling Beth that for some $$$$ he would reveal something
course, he might have told her anything  - he is a dead punk walking


Anna, i dont think natalee was put in a cage either,   


septic tank is where they will find her.... mooooooooooo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:34:20 AM
By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml

Nice, thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 09:35:19 AM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



I bet it's a bloody nightmare just being within 25 feet of her.  Flaring nostrils & all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 09:37:54 AM
I am certain that Stephany is wearing earrings and a necklace in the video. I also think I saw a bracelet but I'm not certain about that.

klaas - Turkey - Joran just might have seen that movie, told himself,  "Self, stay away from there."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jonathan45 on June 07, 2010, 09:38:22 AM
Many CCTV cameras inside the hotel. How do they manage and store all those 24hours tapes and how long do they have to hold all those tapes ?
I read a remark about the timeline on those CCTV footage tapes in the hotel. It was incorrect.
Has one of the Monkeys already discovered and investigated this ?




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 09:40:42 AM
The Telegraph has "Hang 'm' High" as the heading for one of the side articles (right side of page links). (Doesn't use that on the actual article, though.) Guess all those Westerns traveled well.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875266/__Overtuigend_bewijs_tegen_Joran__.html)

google translator -

Mon June 7, 2010, 5:30


Netherlands calls on Peru's ears
The Dutch embassy in ...

Joran wants Peruvian lawyer
Joran van der Sloot, who is ...

Hang him high!
In Peru's tabloid press has Joran van der Sloot ...



"All the evidence suggests that he has killed Stephany," said Cesar Guardia, head of Criminal Investigation Department of police. Thus, the murdered Stephany presumably tissue under her fingernails. Police from exclusive footage of the medical examination of Joran on his body left no visible traces. Also bloody shoe prints between bed and bathroom are examined.


One thing's for sure...not too many people would have bloody shoe prints in a size 14.



That's the truth-lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 09:42:26 AM
Jonathan - Yes, but it's easily deciphered. Compare current accurate time to video stamp time, do the math. I've read that security cameras just about everywhere are out of synch


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cw618 on June 07, 2010, 09:43:32 AM
at the bottom of this article,are more links to vids and pics,news of joran

Blood on shirt 'vampire' Joran
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488680/2010/06/07/Bloed-op-shirt-vampier-Joran.dhtml

more links
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488549/2010/06/07/Joran-naar-Castro-Castro-gevangenis.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488492/2010/06/06/Video-eerste-verhoor-Joran-online.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488472/2010/06/06/Nederlandse-ambassade-roept-Peru-op-het-matje.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488443/2010/06/06/Ambassade-geeft-Joran-lijst-advocaten.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488339/2010/06/06/Video-nekt-de-gringo.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488279/2010/06/05/Boze-Peruanen-belagen-Joran.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488129/2010/06/04/Broer-Stephany-Hard-bewijs-tegen-Joran.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/487995/2010/06/04/Moeder-Joran-geschokt-en-aangedaan.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488200/2010/06/04/Flinke-politiemacht-wacht-Joran-op-in-Peru.dhtml

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/487978/2010/06/04/Joran-beschuldigd-van-afpersen-Beth-Holloway.dhtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 09:47:19 AM
aruba is a garbage dump and i will continue  every chance i get  in any way possible explaning to people that its a killing ground.

 ** it sucks **     

gutless - everyone of them that was involved in the  dis-investigation and mis information campaign. not a single one of them actually did any good, just more cover ups time after time.


now, back to the slug joran for a moment, after watching the video of the two of them going
into the hotel room, i suspect that he maybe told her some lies and was extorting her
in the way that he was telling Beth that for some $$$$ he would reveal something
course, he might have told her anything  - he is a dead punk walking


Anna, i dont think natalee was put in a cage either,   


septic tank is where they will find her.... mooooooooooo


Good morning, Robots!  And a big hug to you for admitting you also don't think Natalee was in the fish cage.  It's been very lonely with that opinion around here for some time!

Septic tank or under the pool concrete.  Joey the Taco recently even said they bulldozer the pool among his other lies!  No, they didn't bulldoze anything.  But I, too, remember those vids taken with Red standing right there at the houose across the street of the septic system or cistern or some underground pipeways.  Paulus would not allow that so have to wonder why as well.

But this time Joran has really done it and there is more than enough evidence  for a conviction it seems.  Just sorry another family had to suffer but we have told this to Aruba and NL for five long years now.  It's their fault this girl is dead for their failure to collect sufficient evidence to prosecute and convict Joran for what he did to Natalee.  It's not that there was no evidence but that they refused to even look for or collect any.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:49:13 AM
I need my ROFLMAO smilie ;)

First this.....

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

Then this response, LOL


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/resignedcr060710.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 07, 2010, 09:49:34 AM
I don’t know if this was posted already.

by google translator

"Joran at Castro Castro prison '

LIMA - If Joran van der Sloot after one week from the police cell is released, he is at the Castro Castro prison in the Peruvian capital Lima on top, according to Peruvian media.  In Castro Castro are the serious criminals, found guilty of rape and murder.
 The newspaper Correo (Post) described a few years ago how some rapists of minors in Castro Castro come to their end at the hands of fellow inmates.  Psychologists explained how the newspaper explained:''There is a pecking order in the world of serious criminals.  Crimes against children and women who can not defend his cowardly.  That must be punished.''

 The Castro Castro prison, is up to the edge of town, in a slum, at a dusty dry mountain.  Edgar taxi driver warns us do not walk around.  ''If you are robbed, the police will look about twenty hours.''

 Two sentences
 Taking pictures is not the prison guards, only a little at the entrance where a couple  men and boys waiting to go inside.  Sunday is visiting day for men.  On Wednesday and Saturday, the women visit inside.

 Inside are four thousand prisoners.  Those who have money, hire a private cell, those who do not have to sleep on the floor.  Often have several men share a bed.

 Edgar taxi driver was convinced thatJoran van der Sloot has two sentences ahead:''The Prosecutor and the street, that is to say of his fellow prisoners.  He has''a Peruvian girl murdered.  They will make him pay for it.''

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1013/Buitenland/article/detail/488549/2010/06/07/Joran-naar-Castro-Castro-gevangenis.dhtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:50:37 AM
aruba is a garbage dump and i will continue  every chance i get  in any way possible explaning to people that its a killing ground.

 ** it sucks **     

gutless - everyone of them that was involved in the  dis-investigation and mis information campaign. not a single one of them actually did any good, just more cover ups time after time.


now, back to the slug joran for a moment, after watching the video of the two of them going
into the hotel room, i suspect that he maybe told her some lies and was extorting her
in the way that he was telling Beth that for some $$$$ he would reveal something
course, he might have told her anything  - he is a dead punk walking


Anna, i dont think natalee was put in a cage either,   


septic tank is where they will find her.... mooooooooooo


Good morning, Robots!  And a big hug to you for admitting you also don't think Natalee was in the fish cage.  It's been very lonely with that opinion around here for some time!

Septic tank or under the pool concrete.  Joey the Taco recently even said they bulldozer the pool among his other lies!  No, they didn't bulldoze anything.  But I, too, remember those vids taken with Red standing right there at the houose across the street of the septic system or cistern or some underground pipeways.  Paulus would not allow that so have to wonder why as well.

But this time Joran has really done it and there is more than enough evidence  for a conviction it seems.  Just sorry another family had to suffer but we have told this to Aruba and NL for five long years now.  It's their fault this girl is dead for their failure to collect sufficient evidence to prosecute and convict Joran for what he did to Natalee.  It's not that there was no evidence but that they refused to even look for or collect any.

The good news is TES is on the island ready to search 2 sites on the island right now!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 07, 2010, 09:50:54 AM
hi Anna, 

joe t. is a jerk and now he tries to put this "great wall of ignorance"  between him and joran


yea, ok, sure joe,  whatever

you are the same piece of crap now that you were then   


we done have any smily faces anymore ?   or laughing faces   or puking faces?

aruba is a garbage dump and i will continue  every chance i get  in any way possible explaning to people that its a killing ground.

 ** it sucks **     

gutless - everyone of them that was involved in the  dis-investigation and mis information campaign. not a single one of them actually did any good, just more cover ups time after time.


now, back to the slug joran for a moment, after watching the video of the two of them going
into the hotel room, i suspect that he maybe told her some lies and was extorting her
in the way that he was telling Beth that for some $$$$ he would reveal something
course, he might have told her anything  - he is a dead punk walking


Anna, i dont think natalee was put in a cage either,   


septic tank is where they will find her.... mooooooooooo


Good morning, Robots!  And a big hug to you for admitting you also don't think Natalee was in the fish cage.  It's been very lonely with that opinion around here for some time!

Septic tank or under the pool concrete.  Joey the Taco recently even said they bulldozer the pool among his other lies!  No, they didn't bulldoze anything.  But I, too, remember those vids taken with Red standing right there at the houose across the street of the septic system or cistern or some underground pipeways.  Paulus would not allow that so have to wonder why as well.

But this time Joran has really done it and there is more than enough evidence  for a conviction it seems.  Just sorry another family had to suffer but we have told this to Aruba and NL for five long years now.  It's their fault this girl is dead for their failure to collect sufficient evidence to prosecute and convict Joran for what he did to Natalee.  It's not that there was no evidence but that they refused to even look for or collect any.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 09:52:44 AM
Beth says........... "His life is a living Hell. It's about to begin."  With these new developments, this is worth watching again. If there is an ad at the bottom, just close the ad out:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zogNuBp9PDk&hl=en_US&fs=1&

Thanks for posting ... everyone, everywhere in the world should see this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:53:21 AM
Many CCTV cameras inside the hotel. How do they manage and store all those 24hours tapes and how long do they have to hold all those tapes ?
I read a remark about the timeline on those CCTV footage tapes in the hotel. It was incorrect.
Has one of the Monkeys already discovered and investigated this ?




The clock in the "lobby" of the TAC hotel/hostel is set 11 minutes earlier than the clock in the hallway near the room.  I don't see anything really strange about it.  It looks like those two clocks are a different format as well.  So one clock maybe newer than the other.

Edited to add:  in the old days it was actual tape.  Now everything is computerized.  It used to be a hassle saving "all those tapes", now it's just a file file on your computer. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: can on June 07, 2010, 10:04:22 AM
Good morning Nut,
I think it's possible that Stefany purchased a new laptop that her Dad gave her money for, and left it in her car.  Joran drove the car when he left the hotel and took what he wanted from it.  imo

While it would be more evidence, I wish and hope they have Joran's laptop.



Morning, Can and belatedly to all.

Sure sounds like Grand Theft--Auto to me as well.  I mean since they need robbery to apply the life sentence.

Hi Anna.  Yes, they've got their extenuating circumstances to lock him up for life.  25-35 years is too good for Joran (not that I believe he'd survive that in their prison system)

I so want them to have his laptop.  It may lead to Natalee.

a one year sentence is a death sentence for Joran. He's not going to last a year in that prison. He's soft - like a marshmellow. I take great joy in knowing that.

-jmo-

Hi Rob. 
I agree.  It makes me so angry that he is using the same tactics as he did in Aruba even though it won't work this time.  The overwhelming evidence speaks for itself. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 10:06:56 AM
Netherlands didn't ask Peru for clarification

LIMA - The Dutch Embassy in Peru has not the Peruvian authorities requested clarification on the treatment of Joran van der Sloot.
 
That says the Foreign Ministry Monday. "We do not meddle in the judicial process of another country," said a ministry spokesman Monday.
U.S. network CNN reported Sunday that the Dutch Embassy in Peru was unhappy with how the country dealt with Van der Sloot. This would according to an embassy spokesman for the Peruvian police have reported to the authorities, following the presentation of Dutch suspect in the press.
Van der Sloot was to run up and down three times while the extensive media photographs and video footage of him could make. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs could not comment Sunday on the CNN news.
The Dutchman suspected of the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6880816/___Peru_niet_om_opheldering_gevraagd___.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 07, 2010, 10:09:06 AM
BuZa does not interfere with Joran

The Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs has not asked for clarification on the treatment of Joran van der Sloot.  That leaves the ministry of ANP know.

 A spokesman said: "We do not meddle in the judicial process of another country."  The Dutch Embassy in Lima, this weekend according to CNN, was complaining about the fact that Joran was paraded around in front of the media to take pictures.
 
http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/binnenland/2010/06/buza_bemoeit_zich_niet_met_jor.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 10:11:28 AM
I need my ROFLMAO smilie ;)

First this.....

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

Then this response, LOL


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/resignedcr060710.jpg)

actually, Rat hits the nail on the head - Aruba is embarrassed about NOTHING. N O T H I N G . . . .

They have no humility, no shame, and for once that assclown revealed the thinking of of the entire population.

The rest of the world just shakes their head, but Aruba - like drunk uncle Pete - just keeps on pissing as the crowd forms and gasps.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Netherlands didn't ask Peru for clarification

LIMA - The Dutch Embassy in Peru has not the Peruvian authorities requested clarification on the treatment of Joran van der Sloot.
 
That says the Foreign Ministry Monday. "We do not meddle in the judicial process of another country," said a ministry spokesman Monday.
U.S. network CNN reported Sunday that the Dutch Embassy in Peru was unhappy with how the country dealt with Van der Sloot. This would according to an embassy spokesman for the Peruvian police have reported to the authorities, following the presentation of Dutch suspect in the press.
Van der Sloot was to run up and down three times while the extensive media photographs and video footage of him could make. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs could not comment Sunday on the CNN news.
The Dutchman suspected of the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6880816/___Peru_niet_om_opheldering_gevraagd___.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I am confident that having a few pictures taken is going to be the least of Joran's worries!  I do hope the Dutch Embassy will butt out and let Peruvian police handle this in their fashion. 

Good Morning Monkeys!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 10:17:51 AM
Beth says........... "His life is a living Hell. It's about to begin."  With these new developments, this is worth watching again. If there is an ad at the bottom, just close the ad out:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zogNuBp9PDk&hl=en_US&fs=1&

This was extremely painful to watch again....extremely


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 10:22:17 AM
BuZa does not interfere with Joran

The Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs has not asked for clarification on the treatment of Joran van der Sloot.  That leaves the ministry of ANP know.

 A spokesman said: "We do not meddle in the judicial process of another country."  The Dutch Embassy in Lima, this weekend according to CNN, was complaining about the fact that Joran was paraded around in front of the media to take pictures.
 
http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/binnenland/2010/06/buza_bemoeit_zich_niet_met_jor.html


Good!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 07, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Poker player tipped police

 From our reporters LIMA (PERU) -  The body of murdered Stephany Flores was found after a request from a mysterious foreign poker players to get someone to the room of Joran to send.  This is demonstrated by two police interviews, which this newspaper's possession.


  This 35-year-old man was heard several times in recent days.  So he stayed in the same hotel as Joran.  He had met before and also had the Peruvian mobile number in his phone to Joran.
 According to police photographs is about an Italian-looking man.  According to his papers is a naturalized Uruguayan Albanian, who two weeks for Joran and the country came in contact with him several times.
 This man, "Elton Garcia" may temporarily not leave Peru.  He is not as suspects.  He explained to the police that he was a professional poker player, with Joran and Stephany on a "free table" was played.
 The night before Stephany was found, he would have dinner with Joran, which does not appear.
 On Tuesday, two days after the murder, he says he was at nine o'clock appointment.  "He did not show up and I began to worry that he and Stephany Flores was kidnapped."
 Missing

 The interrogation report adds that this mysterious poker player he'd heard that day Stephany by her family was reported missing.  He argues that interrogations have feared that Joran was abducted along with her.
 On the night of Wednesday, the man asked the head of the Atlantic City casino to call the hotel room of Joran.  As a result, later that night the body of Stephany Flores and immediately found an international warrant issued against Joran.
 He said the body would not identify.  "I did not see. I recognized her at a photo of the police

Saved

 During the interrogation the police do not ask how it is that Garcia people to the scene of the crime conducted.  Garcia claims that he barely knew and never Joran on his bedroom had been.  The number of his mobile phone he would not knowingly stored in his phone.  "I am not friends with him. I know him only by sight because we pokerden together to free table in Atlantic City casinos."  The filing of the indictment for extortion FBI may have intended to get Joran later extradited to the United States.  If Joran longer hands of the police had remained, the FBI also would have allowed him to be able to maintain worldwide.
 That the Americans are serious about investigating Joran shows the raid at his comrade Jaap Amesz, last Thursday in Hulshorst.  Within three hours after Amesz the American news channels had reported that he had information about Joran, the National Criminal Investigation searched his home at the request of the Americans

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6875260/__Pokeraar_tipte_politie__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 07, 2010, 10:29:24 AM
Its raining news

Security tightened around Joran

 LIMA -  The security around the 22-year-old murder suspect Joran van der Sloot has been tightened for fear of a suicide attempt by the Dutchman.  That the Peruvian authorities have informed against Upi.com website.
 
Van der Sloot is suspected of the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores, whose body was found last Wednesday in the TAC hotel in tourist district of Miraflores in Peru.  The Dutchman is also still a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway case.
 The Sunday escaped Van der Sloot was last Thursday after a manhunt by police Friday arrested in Chile and transferred to Peru.  He currently resides in custody at the police complex in Lima.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6880965/__Beveiliging_rond_Joran_aangescherpt__.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 10:32:10 AM
Netherlands didn't ask Peru for clarification

LIMA - The Dutch Embassy in Peru has not the Peruvian authorities requested clarification on the treatment of Joran van der Sloot.
 
That says the Foreign Ministry Monday. "We do not meddle in the judicial process of another country," said a ministry spokesman Monday.
U.S. network CNN reported Sunday that the Dutch Embassy in Peru was unhappy with how the country dealt with Van der Sloot. This would according to an embassy spokesman for the Peruvian police have reported to the authorities, following the presentation of Dutch suspect in the press.
Van der Sloot was to run up and down three times while the extensive media photographs and video footage of him could make. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs could not comment Sunday on the CNN news.
The Dutchman suspected of the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6880816/___Peru_niet_om_opheldering_gevraagd___.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I believe that's exactly what they did just yesterday, lol.  Guess they think everybody has short term memory loss because I recall thinking "They don't understand Peru's system" in that whiny hysterical voice of Arlene.

And saying this as though it would matter if they cared or not is pretty funny, too.  Peru is not a former colony nor a protectorate and doesn't give a rat's ass what NL likes or doesn't like.  I wonder why they think Peru would pay any attention to them.

Thanks for posting the articles.  I love to see the Dutch people say Joran is an ARUBAN and they want to see him punished just as much as we do.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 10:32:43 AM

Aruban Authorities Speak to CBS42

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Aruban-Authorities-Speak-to-CBS42/-WvWfDxXok60JfQse3kJRg.cspx



Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- Jossy Mansur, editor of Diario newspaper in Aruba, spoke with CBS 42 by phone, Sunday afternoon. He said there are two planned searches on the island. He says one will be near the bird sanctuary and the other near the dam. Mansur says the two other suspects in the Holloway case, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, are still believed to live on the island. They have kept a very low profile. He believes they should be worried Joran may try to implicate them in the disappearance of Natalee to get a better deal in Peru.

Joran van der Sloot will spend next week at police headquarters in Peru. He faces more questioning, and officials are testing a tennis racket and bloody clothes, for d-n-a linking him to the death of a young woman.

The two were caught on tape entering his hotel room, the day she was killed. As you can imagine, this is the talk of Aruba where Natalee Holloway disappeared five years ago. Joran van der Sloot is still the prime suspect in that case.

what was Jossy smoking when he made that statement.....BS Jossy, BS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 07, 2010, 10:33:20 AM
Does anyone know if a "date rape drug" has a hypnotic effect to where the user can pretty much be commanded to do anything? 

If so, that would account for the odd interaction between Joran and Stephany in the video at the hostel...earlier discussion was that it was odd that she just held her head down and there was no conversation going on between them. 




One theory I have is that Stephany was unaccustomed to going into a dive motel and was keeping her head low because of embarrassment.  I believe she was there to get her money and go.  If she was drugged, that could be another reason she was detached from Joran and the situation on cameras.  JMHO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:46:18 AM
Joran Van Der Sloot Faces Authorities In Peru

It seems that Joran van der Sloot may have gotten in over his head.

The Dutch boy was seen being led by Chile police officers from the SUV that carried him to a police auditorium in Lima, Peru. The normally nonchalant boy seemed a little more uptight as he was led through a crowd of journalists sporting a green bullet-proof vest and handcuffs. According to Gen. Cesar Guardia, chief of Peru’s criminal police, the police interrogation began almost immediately.

During the questioning, hotel surveillance camera footage was released. The video showed the victim, Flores, walking behind van der Sloot with her head down as he obtained the key to his hotel room. The couple was then seen entering the room. Van der Sloot was later seen exiting the room alone with a gym bag and a day pack in his hand. This is the very room where Flores body was found.

Octavio Salazar, Peru’s interior minister, said of the investigation, “We can’t rush the matter, nor can we give details concerning the event or that investigation itself.”

Van der Sloot is the prime suspect in the May 30th murder of Stephany Flores, 21. He is also the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway.

(http://www.ecanadanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Joran-Van-der-Sloot2.jpg)

http://www.ecanadanow.com/world/2010/06/07/joran-van-der-sloot-faes-authorities-in-peru/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 07, 2010, 10:46:20 AM
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

Can someone please bring this over for me? Everytime I try to read it my browser shuts down. TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 07, 2010, 10:46:55 AM
Joran wants a Dutch Lawyer
   
   
 (AP) - The murder suspect Joran van der Sloot wants a Dutch lawyer.  This reports the newssite Peru21 using information from his Peruvian lawyer.
 
 It is unclear whether his lawyer in the Netherlands, Bert de Rooij, will assume his defense in Peru.  De Rooij was right not respond Monday.  According to the Peruvian lawyer Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, Joran is looking for contact with his mother, whom he spoke by phone Thursday.  If the counselor to make way for a Dutch colleague, is unclear .
 De Rooij said last week that he tried to advise Joran, but did not heard from him.  Van der Sloot mailed him Thursday after his arrest in Chile from a police department with questions.  The lawyer has "numerous times"tried to call Van der Sloot  but got no answer.

 The Peruvian police is investigating a laptop in the backpack of the 22-year-old Van der Sloot had on him and possibly belonged to the murdered Stephany Flores.  Her father explained that his daughter the day before the murder, had given her one thousand U.S. dollars to buy a laptop. Van der Sloot had Chilean, Bolivian and Peruvian money.  Monday, the first results of the autopsy to come outside.

http://binnenland.nieuws.nl/599169


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:50:21 AM
Joran van der Sloot: accursed Flying Dutchman
Fernando Vivas's column on the accused of killing blows and punches to the Peruvian Stephany Ramirez Flores. Detained in Chile, has become the alleged "serial killer" most celebrated of recent times


By: Fernando Vivas

Do not ever say that murderers do not have feelings. Of course they do, but different from ours. At first when overwhelms kill all the passion and excitement that can fit into the human skin, for a moment that marks them believe life conquer death. No robot could beat a girl like Stephany to make sure - how unbearable anguish for it - that does not breathe or make it better. That cold-blooded, when you see the results of the autopsy (cervical cranial trauma) and photos of the crime scene, is a literary figure.

Joran has had in recent days, the hot blood, was a bundle of fears and feelings. Now, in the lockup in Santiago de Chile, you will reach the calm of resignation, awaiting trial, mom Anita (Paulus Dad died in February this year), an attorney (the famous Joe Tacopina who saved him Aruba hesitate to tangle again), moving to Peru - the fate binds us to Chile of the most gruesome ways! - well, here turns on the light bulb of the satanic figurehead, international chains looking for interviews, covers the amazing testimonies of girls and boys who have not even known. Just yesterday on Twitter was broadcast his suicide, when he was more alive than a rabbit escaping from the hunters.

Take off at Joran their freedom but do not take away the laptop that lit nervous, he told the taxi driver Osvaldo Aparcana combi that was next on the long journey to Arica Ica. With it, bouncing between the most serious sites and chat rooms darker journey will take its own mythology, that of a damn about the world Flying Dutchman, a ghost, as the old legend, condemned to wander without porting though in truth most honguee be realistic that in Lurigancho.

"LIE TO ME, POKER FACE"
Before the nightmare last Saturday when he met Stephany in the Atlantic, Joran was something like a "poker face", one of those guys who have perfect command of gestures to bet, twisty, "bluff" and win. His nonchalance of player will be convinced the girl, who had just won a lot of money just playing poker, going out with so much money and with tremendous unknown.

Something similar could have happened to Natalee Holloway in Aruba. And the hundreds of thousands of viewers who quickly applied similar scrutiny to "Lie to me", the series of lie detection, and concluded it could be and could not be the murderer of Natalee. The most sickening is that Joran is not running from the interviews. His feelings were not committed to repent, were concentrated in deceiving. Even the confession that Peter R. tore de Vries was final. Geraldo Rivera, king of the talk shows, described him as a "danger yunkie" addicted to risk of escape is a contradiction that naked.

TWO IS TOO
Our legendary thirst is insatiable. A guy who commits a single murder is a potential "serial killer". If you make two, but five years elapse, and in different countries, gee, this is a serial murderer globalized consummated. On top of the two crimes occurred one May 30, which runs off the fantasy of all possible cabals.

I dare not draw any series. Is there discipline in the horror? In the case of Natalee, Joran had two possible accomplices, the Kalpoe brothers. The serial coolness came later, when assembling evidence and refute alibis. If it was saved because the corpse was taken by the sea and time.

Now, however, Stephany him away but can not talk. He died in his hotel room, in their alleged hands in the overflow overdrawn lout who thought he could keep playing, "bluff" and make mischief around the world.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/489651/joran-van-der-sloot-maldito-holandes-errante


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:51:25 AM
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

Can someone please bring this over for me? Everytime I try to read it my browser shuts down. TIA

Joran Van der Sloot’s Body Language- Moist Eyes Do Not Remorse or Sadness But Stunned Look Shows How He Did Not Expect To Get Caught
June 6, 2010 - One Response


Any moist eyes you see on Potential serial killer, Joran Van de Sloot, (and I use the term potential serial killer because the definition of a serial killer is having three or more killings under their belt and in Joran’s case there are only two of which we know)  are not tears of remorse or sadness .

Instead, they are tears  which reveal his body’s adrenalin rush  in both the shock and excitement over the new situation where he is the focus of being captured for killing a young Peruvian woman, Stephanie Flores .

In fact that is why it has been reported that Joan looked stunned. He is no doubt in complete shock that he was caught. His narcissism would never allow him to imagine what the consequences would be if this happened to him.

The tears are due to his autonomic nervous system essentially taking over and expelling tears in his system. The reason I say this is because serial killers and would be serial killers have no emotion. They do not feel the same things as we who are not serial killers feel. They shallow affect, lack of empathy, incapacity for love, and a definite  lack of guilt or remorse. In essence Joran is not at all capable of normal emotions in relation to situational appropriate events.

BAD BODY LANGUAGE SIGNS FROM THE GET GO



When you look at the photo of Joran Van Der Sloot at the front desk to pick up his room key after a long night out with Ms. Flores in tow, there is the exact same sadistic smirk that he had when he told an undercover reporter that he killed another young woman, Natalie Holloway  him several years back.



The fact that Joran is walking in front of Ms. Flores  and doesn’t acknowledge her in the surveillance tapes  is not a good sign. It shows a detachment from her.



He doesn’t even look at her when he enters his room with her  which is also a bad sign as it shows he doesn’t care about her. There is not politeness of gentlemanly consideration of letting her enter the room ahead of him.

Once again it speaks to his extreme egocentric and narcissistic behavior ,which most psychopaths demonstrate.
CALM COOL AND COLLECTED AFTER LEAVING A MURDERED BODY IN THE ROOM



If you look at this surveillance photo of Joran leaving the hotel room 4 hours  after he allegedly killed this young  woman as he is dressed in a fresh set of clothes,  his demeanor shows a calmness. There is no muscle tension in his face whatsoever.

There is even that sick smirk on his face that we saw when he admitted  killing Natalie and when he got the key from the front desk four hours earlier when he knew exactly what he was going to do to unsuspecting Sephanie Flores.



There is no tension, or upset or nervous reaction in his gait as he leaves the hotel. His strike is calm and relaxed and not hurried, In fact  His  He looks like he was going for a stroll without a care in the world, carrying a bag and a backpack.

JORAN’S  EXCITEMENT KICKS IN  WHEN ON THE RUN

But he taxi drivers to whom Joran paid $640 to transport him from Lima to Vinya de Mar Chile where he was apprehended, reported that they noticed that their passenger showed signals of nervousness.

No doubt Joran  moved around and squirmed a lot in the back of the cab as he was reported to continuously chain smoke.

Even though they interpreted his behavior as nervous the truth was that Joran was no doubt more excited than nervous and all the extraneous  movement the cab drivers observed  was the result of his autonomic system taking over.

Joran was excited that he was on his way to getting away with yet another murder to satisfy his sick appetite.

JORAN ACTUALLY  BELIEVED HE COULD GET AWAY WITH MURDER

Joran’s narcissism and eccentricity allowed him to assume that he would get away with murder. He was so sure that he would not get caught that  didn’t even do anything to hide the brutally beaten body complete with the neck he snapped and broke. He didn’t even take the time to check out of the hotel. He just went on his merry way.

Why should he think of the consequences? Five years earlier, to the day, he got away with the murder of another young beautiful girl, Even though he was arrested repeatedly, he beat the system.

NO DADDY TO PROTECT AND  ENABLE JORAN




His father  Paulus also had his back at the time enabling him in his sickness. But now that daddy , who suddenly  died of a heart attack  four months earlier is gone, Joran has no one to cover for him or to tell him that he is loved unconditionally.

Perhaps Joran’s going out of his way to kill again had something to do with the recent death of his father. Since he cannot mourn  his father’s death because has no feelings, he  wants to feel something.

So he kills again to feel something, he kills to feel the excitement and the adrenalin rush he no doubt felt when he killed Natalie Hollyway.

PARADED AROUND TO REPORTERS




Three times, Joran  wearing a green  bullet proof vest,  was paraded around to hundreds of people, including reporters.

No doubt authorities wanted everyone to get a glimpse of this real live monster who killed a lovely innocent woman who did not deserve such a horrific fate.

JORAN DENIES KILLING STEPHANIE  FLORES

So now that daddy isn’t there to protect him, 22 year old Joran is reaching out to mommy as  told authorities to call his mother in Aruba. My heart does go out to his mother whom I am sure had no idea that she spawned a monster.

JORAN DENIES DENIES AND DENIES SOME MORE


Of course  Joran  denied any involvement in Stephanie’s death. Little does he know about the surveillance cameras. The fact that he didn’t check out yet left with his bags and belongings, and took a cab to Chile instead of to the airport and flying directly  to Argentina and his cropped short dyed red hair at attempts to disguise himself,  does not bode well for him.

Even one of the best defense lawyers Joe Tacaopina won’t be able to help him. Tacopina was heard on television shows saying how it is easy to blame Joran because he has a bullseye on his back from the Holloway incident. But no one will be able to defend Joran this time- especially in Peru.

JORAN’S NEW HOME FOR THE REST OF HIS PATHETIC LIFE




A Peruvian prison is not anyplace anyone would want to be, especially when they are only given on e blanket in the freezing cold of the Andes Mountains. Since Peru does not have the death sentence, the rest of Joran’s  life will be a living  hell.

Just ask former American college student  Lori Berenson who was accused of political activism in Peru. She spent  15 of the   best years of her life in this hell and she didn’t even  kill anyone.

So one can only imagine what will happen to Joran when he is locked up. The fact that he killed the daughter of a beloved national hero- a Peruvian race car driver and Presidential candidate  won’t sit well with prison guards and other prisoners. Neither will the fact that he is an outsider and a foreigner.

And let’s say he does get 30 years and is released when he is in his 50’s, no doubt he will be extradited  to the US where he will face extortion charges in Alabama and spend the remainder of his life in a US prison. He tried to extort $250,000 from  an associate of the Holloway family in exchange for revealing the whereabouts of Natalie.

One of Joran’s buddies  who was interviewed said he had a gambling and drug addiction. That is no doubt because those are the only times his adrenalin kicks in and he can feel anything. He also apparently has a killing young innocent women addiction which thankfully has come to an end. Now both Natalie and Stephanie can rest in peace!  wwdrlillianglass.com


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 10:51:57 AM
Its raining news

Security tightened around Joran

 LIMA -  The security around the 22-year-old murder suspect Joran van der Sloot has been tightened for fear of a suicide attempt by the Dutchman.  That the Peruvian authorities have informed against Upi.com website.
 
Van der Sloot is suspected of the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores, whose body was found last Wednesday in the TAC hotel in tourist district of Miraflores in Peru.  The Dutchman is also still a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway case.
 The Sunday escaped Van der Sloot was last Thursday after a manhunt by police Friday arrested in Chile and transferred to Peru.  He currently resides in custody at the police complex in Lima.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6880965/__Beveiliging_rond_Joran_aangescherpt__.html



He butted his head against the wall yesterday.  Maybe he needs a helmet to go with his vest, the little ones bike riders wear so we can still see his pretty blonde hair.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 10:52:29 AM

Aruban Authorities Speak to CBS42

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Aruban-Authorities-Speak-to-CBS42/-WvWfDxXok60JfQse3kJRg.cspx



Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- Jossy Mansur, editor of Diario newspaper in Aruba, spoke with CBS 42 by phone, Sunday afternoon. He said there are two planned searches on the island. He says one will be near the bird sanctuary and the other near the dam. Mansur says the two other suspects in the Holloway case, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, are still believed to live on the island. They have kept a very low profile. He believes they should be worried Joran may try to implicate them in the disappearance of Natalee to get a better deal in Peru.

Joran van der Sloot will spend next week at police headquarters in Peru. He faces more questioning, and officials are testing a tennis racket and bloody clothes, for d-n-a linking him to the death of a young woman.

The two were caught on tape entering his hotel room, the day she was killed. As you can imagine, this is the talk of Aruba where Natalee Holloway disappeared five years ago. Joran van der Sloot is still the prime suspect in that case.

what was Jossy smoking when he made that statement.....BS Jossy, BS

Where are they if they aren't in Aruba?  I believe they are still in Aruba according to the court documents. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 10:54:56 AM
Lawyers advised Joran
Two assisting counsel represented him in Office and Dirincri, but calls a lawyer Dutchman. His backpack was found  a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating.

The Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, 22, feels increasingly cornered. So, now struggling to communicate with his mother and getting a lawyer to free him from Dutchman a tough sentence which could be many years in a prison in our country. The young man is guarded by four policemen in the cells of the Dirincri. The officials said that note was tense.

LAWYERS. The public defender advised Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid abroad in the Public Ministry. Perú.21 spoke with the lawyer, who narrated that the Van Der Sloot to ask about the charges against him there, he replied: "Yes, Stephany Flores's death."

"He said he wanted to communicate with her mother and needed a lawyer from the country and not trade.
Yet he counseled and asked if he had a friend in Peru, and Uruguay Elton responded that Garcia "he said.

Meanwhile, during his statement to the police in Dirincri, which lasted until dawn yesterday, another public defender, Carla Odria, as advised in this process. "I can not declare in advance because the process still continues," he said in succinct when asked about the coach.

"OTHER EVIDENCE? Also, yesterday released a video where you can see the time police searched the belongings of the Dutchman. Among them was a laptop HP brand and various notes and coins in Chile, Bolivia and Peru.

The experts are investigating the origin of the machine, as the father of Stephany, Ricardo Flores, said that one day before the murder he gave his daughter a thousand dollars to buy the unit. Police carried out a confrontation with hotel employees TAC, Miraflores, who corroborated that enter the Dutchman saw Stephany, on Sunday 30 May.

Today you could have the integral result of the autopsy that was performed on the victim. In this way you can determine whether she was raped or not.

Meanwhile, Joseph Tacopina, a former Van Der Sloot attorney who successfully defended in the case of the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, questioned via telephone communication with the Panorama program, the Dutchman evidence implicating the crime in Lima .

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" He asked. He also expressed his surprise at the time that passed between the day of the murder and the discovery of the body.

http://peru21.pe/impresa/noticia/abogadas-asesoraron-joran/2010-06-07/276910
ARGH, now they are saying it isn't Joran's laptop they got from his backpack, it was Stephany's. "His backpack was found a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating."
So, does anyone know if they have been able to recover the things Joran says are in some Chilean hotel room? Things like his credit cards, etc?

That must be another translation blurp...how would that be possible? When she left her home to go out w/ friends, would she have taken her laptop?? If so, where was it when they entered the Hotel room? Neither of them were carrying a laptop. This doesn't sound right to me.

thanks Nut.....the translations of many things are making many twists and turns and the basis for a lot of incorrect information.....I do not want to see any manufactured evidence. I want joran punished for crimes he committed, not crimes or evidence that are manufactured. I want to be able to say, Job well done, Justice has been served. I want to ensure that my sleep is not disturbed by thoughts of ANY more injustices. I am an old woman and I need my sleep. IF somehow, someway, joran did not kill Stephany, (and I don't see anyway he didn't do it be possible) I do not wish to see him convicted of it. I would prefer he be extradited to the US and face the charges here of extortion. and hopefully someday be tried and convicted of Natalee's death as well.  This might not be a popular opinion right now, but it's mine and I will stand firmly to it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 10:55:14 AM
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

Can someone please bring this over for me? Everytime I try to read it my browser shuts down. TIA

Here is the text of the article:

Joran Van der Sloot’s Body Language- Moist Eyes Do Not Remorse or Sadness But Stunned Look Shows How He Did Not Expect To Get Caught

Any moist eyes you see on Potential serial killer, Joran Van de Sloot, (and I use the term potential serial killer because the definition of a serial killer is having three or more killings under their belt and in Joran’s case there are only two of which we know)  are not tears of remorse or sadness .

Instead, they are tears  which reveal his body’s adrenalin rush  in both the shock and excitement over the new situation where he is the focus of being captured for killing a young Peruvian woman, Stephanie Flores .

In fact that is why it has been reported that Joan looked stunned. He is no doubt in complete shock that he was caught. His narcissism would never allow him to imagine what the consequences would be if this happened to him.

The tears are due to his autonomic nervous system essentially taking over and expelling tears in his system. The reason I say this is because serial killers and would be serial killers have no emotion. They do not feel the same things as we who are not serial killers feel. They shallow affect, lack of empathy, incapacity for love, and a definite  lack of guilt or remorse. In essence Joran is not at all capable of normal emotions in relation to situational appropriate events.

BAD BODY LANGUAGE SIGNS FROM THE GET GO

When you look at the photo of Joran Van Der Sloot at the front desk to pick up his room key after a long night out with Ms. Flores in tow, there is the exact same sadistic smirk that he had when he told an undercover reporter that he killed another young woman, Natalie Holloway  him several years back.

The fact that Joran is walking in front of Ms. Flores  and doesn’t acknowledge her in the surveillance tapes  is not a good sign. It shows a detachment from her.

He doesn’t even look at her when he enters his room with her  which is also a bad sign as it shows he doesn’t care about her. There is not politeness of gentlemanly consideration of letting her enter the room ahead of him.

Once again it speaks to his extreme egocentric and narcissistic behavior ,which most psychopaths demonstrate.

CALM COOL AND COLLECTED AFTER LEAVING A MURDERED BODY IN THE ROOM

If you look at this surveillance photo of Joran leaving the hotel room 4 hours  after he allegedly killed this young  woman as he is dressed in a fresh set of clothes,  his demeanor shows a calmness. There is no muscle tension in his face whatsoever.

There is even that sick smirk on his face that we saw when he admitted  killing Natalie and when he got the key from the front desk four hours earlier when he knew exactly what he was going to do to unsuspecting Sephanie Flores.

There is no tension, or upset or nervous reaction in his gait as he leaves the hotel. His strike is calm and relaxed and not hurried, In fact  His  He looks like he was going for a stroll without a care in the world, carrying a bag and a backpack.

JORAN’S  EXCITEMENT KICKS IN  WHEN ON THE RUN

But he taxi drivers to whom Joran paid $640 to transport him from Lima to Vinya de Mar Chile where he was apprehended, reported that they noticed that their passenger showed signals of nervousness.

No doubt Joran  moved around and squirmed a lot in the back of the cab as he was reported to continuously chain smoke.

Even though they interpreted his behavior as nervous the truth was that Joran was no doubt more excited than nervous and all the extraneous  movement the cab drivers observed  was the result of his autonomic system taking over.

Joran was excited that he was on his way to getting away with yet another murder to satisfy his sick appetite.

JORAN ACTUALLY  BELIEVED HE COULD GET AWAY WITH MURDER

Joran’s narcissism and eccentricity allowed him to assume that he would get away with murder. He was so sure that he would not get caught that  didn’t even do anything to hide the brutally beaten body complete with the neck he snapped and broke. He didn’t even take the time to check out of the hotel. He just went on his merry way.

Why should he think of the consequences? Five years earlier, to the day, he got away with the murder of another young beautiful girl, Even though he was arrested repeatedly, he beat the system.

NO DADDY TO PROTECT AND  ENABLE JORAN


His father  Paulus also had his back at the time enabling him in his sickness. But now that daddy , who suddenly  died of a heart attack  four months earlier is gone, Joran has no one to cover for him or to tell him that he is loved unconditionally.

Perhaps Joran’s going out of his way to kill again had something to do with the recent death of his father. Since he cannot mourn  his father’s death because has no feelings, he  wants to feel something.

So he kills again to feel something, he kills to feel the excitement and the adrenalin rush he no doubt felt when he killed Natalie Hollyway.

PARADED AROUND TO REPORTERS


Three times, Joran  wearing a green  bullet proof vest,  was paraded around to hundreds of people, including reporters.

No doubt authorities wanted everyone to get a glimpse of this real live monster who killed a lovely innocent woman who did not deserve such a horrific fate.

JORAN DENIES KILLING STEPHANIE  FLORES

So now that daddy isn’t there to protect him, 22 year old Joran is reaching out to mommy as  told authorities to call his mother in Aruba. My heart does go out to his mother whom I am sure had no idea that she spawned a monster.

JORAN DENIES DENIES AND DENIES SOME MORE

Of course  Joran  denied any involvement in Stephanie’s death. Little does he know about the surveillance cameras. The fact that he didn’t check out yet left with his bags and belongings, and took a cab to Chile instead of to the airport and flying directly  to Argentina and his cropped short dyed red hair at attempts to disguise himself,  does not bode well for him.

Even one of the best defense lawyers Joe Tacaopina won’t be able to help him. Tacopina was heard on television shows saying how it is easy to blame Joran because he has a bullseye on his back from the Holloway incident. But no one will be able to defend Joran this time- especially in Peru.

JORAN’S NEW HOME FOR THE REST OF HIS PATHETIC LIFE


A Peruvian prison is not anyplace anyone would want to be, especially when they are only given on e blanket in the freezing cold of the Andes Mountains. Since Peru does not have the death sentence, the rest of Joran’s  life will be a living  hell.

Just ask former American college student  Lori Berenson who was accused of political activism in Peru. She spent  15 of the   best years of her life in this hell and she didn’t even  kill anyone.

So one can only imagine what will happen to Joran when he is locked up. The fact that he killed the daughter of a beloved national hero- a Peruvian race car driver and Presidential candidate  won’t sit well with prison guards and other prisoners. Neither will the fact that he is an outsider and a foreigner.

And let’s say he does get 30 years and is released when he is in his 50’s, no doubt he will be extradited  to the US where he will face extortion charges in Alabama and spend the remainder of his life in a US prison. He tried to extort $250,000 from  an associate of the Holloway family in exchange for revealing the whereabouts of Natalie.

One of Joran’s buddies  who was interviewed said he had a gambling and drug addiction. That is no doubt because those are the only times his adrenalin kicks in and he can feel anything. He also apparently has a killing young innocent women addiction which thankfully has come to an end. Now both Natalie and Stephanie can rest in peace!  wwdrlillianglass.com


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:57:44 AM
The Peruvian media has already been convicted Joran van der Sloot. The Dutchman was presented to the press after being delivered to the Court of Peru wearing convict clothes. Also video footage of his first interrogation can be found in many places on the web. The Foreign Ministry is considering a response.

Joran van der Sloot, accused of killing a girl in Lima will receive a fair trial. This has ensured the Peruvian interior minister, Octavio Salazar. In the meantime come to light is increasing evidence pointing to Van der Sloot.

Peruvian police claims that initial investigations clearly point to an involvement of Joran in the crime. According to police, the victim of 21 years, Stephany Flores, was beaten to death with a tennis racket. There are also video images that appear on the suspect and victim together in the hotel. On the first examination of Van der Sloot is already on the street in the form of a video on the web.

No protest
Unlike previously reported, the Netherlands embassy has protested the publication of material accuser. The Foreign Ministry is considering an eventual official response about how to proceed in Peru. A Foreign Affairs spokeswoman said: "I raised the query to the ministry about how we must act."

In principle, the Netherlands does not deal with the trials conducted in other countries, but it is possible that in this case there is reason to protest. The suspect, meanwhile, still claims his innocence in the death of Stephany Flores.

In their help has come in the U.S. attorney, Joseph Tacopina. This was asked on Peruvian television how it is possible that the body of Flores spent three days in the hotel room of Van der Sloot without anybody noticing.

Extradition
Peru and the Netherlands have no extradition agreement that allows foreign defendants should be tried in their own country, even if you are negotiating for some time on a so-called agreement stipulating that WOTS Dutchmen arrested in another country to serve their sentence in the Netherlands. It is unclear when it will reach an agreement.

Even if such an agreement was closed after a conviction of Van der Sloot, the Dutchman could still benefit from it. The condition is that both countries had no objections and that the culprit himself would agree. It is too early to say whether Peru would agree with such extradition.


Theft
The motive for the killing of the girl of 21 years seems to have been robbery. Stephany's father said to have disappeared jewelry. In the girl's wallet disappeared also $ 1,000 to Flores had given his daughter to buy a laptop.

Van der Sloot is still detained in a police cell in Lima. His trial detention has been extended by seven days. For him it has reserved a cell in high security penal Castro-Castro. The complex has room for 4,000 prisoners.

In Lima there is talk about the fate behind the walls of the prison inmates convicted of rape or death of children and women. If Van der Sloot is guilty, he risks a maximum penalty of 25 years in prison.

http://www.rnw.nl/espanol/article/el-caso-van-der-sloot-ya-est%C3%A1-en-las-calles-de-per%C3%BA?utm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 11:01:56 AM
Rob, As you may already know, I am not convinced that was Natalee's remains in the fish trap.  I just don't know one way or the other.  Not a popular position to hold on this forum but I'm used to that from not believing the Lorenzo connection.

If that was Natalee in the trap, why wouldn't ALE have just removed any remains before the dive crew arrived?  I think they would have.  And they certainly would not have been providing coordinates if there was anything to be found.

But since ALE absconded with the contents, no one can know for sure, IMO.  But it has never made sense to me that ALE would say to dive there if there was really anything to be found.  Not their MO.

As for this witness and the pond, I thought as you did that this had already been checked by Golba. 

I'm not sure I understand what they are going to search this week or why.  But I guess the ole "can't hurt, might help applies"?  And it is more and more bad publicity for the flyspeck Aruba.

mornin' Anna,

I understand your position, and I agree with it. I don't know fer a certainty who was in that trap. It just fits most of what we know, and many of the elements seem to be there from what we have seen. I would just say - it's the best chance to date.

There is nothing in the Monstraat pond - nothing. Searching it again says - Fred Golba is not reliable.

Funny how Paului's Suzuki was confiscated - he was seen near the McDonald's and that's down the street from Bubali.

And this new witness is not new at all - it's two years old and he's a liar. I have no idea why Tim clings to this person.

I read somewhere on here - the Arubans want to help with Stephany's case. Yeah sure, how about helping with Natalee's. Shouldn't that be your priority. And Aruban help translates into - muck that case up too.

Wanna help - give TJ Ward all the case files, let him and Harold Copus bisect them and see what they can find - pay all of their expenses and let's see where that goes. There are ways to resolve this. This we know.


Rob, do you think it's possible that some information has come forth either during the sting or since Joran's capture that Tim is going on?  Something that hasn't been released to the public?





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:02:23 AM
Its raining news

Security tightened around Joran

 LIMA -  The security around the 22-year-old murder suspect Joran van der Sloot has been tightened for fear of a suicide attempt by the Dutchman.  That the Peruvian authorities have informed against Upi.com website.
 
Van der Sloot is suspected of the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores, whose body was found last Wednesday in the TAC hotel in tourist district of Miraflores in Peru.  The Dutchman is also still a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway case.
 The Sunday escaped Van der Sloot was last Thursday after a manhunt by police Friday arrested in Chile and transferred to Peru.  He currently resides in custody at the police complex in Lima.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6880965/__Beveiliging_rond_Joran_aangescherpt__.html



He butted his head against the wall yesterday.  Maybe he needs a helmet to go with his vest, the little ones bike riders wear so we can still see his pretty blonde hair.

and knee pads for jail


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 07, 2010, 11:02:36 AM
I need my ROFLMAO smilie ;)

First this.....

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

Then this response, LOL


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/resignedcr060710.jpg)


OUTSTANDING!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 07, 2010, 11:03:34 AM
thank you Northern Rose


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 11:06:22 AM
I need my ROFLMAO smilie ;)

First this.....

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

Then this response, LOL


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/resignedcr060710.jpg)


I love it!!  I still can't believe they even allow her and her equally lying, old ho mother post over there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:08:38 AM
Van der Sloot is eligible to be held in Piedras Gordas, say
Former head of INPE said Wilfredo Pedraza Ancon's penalty ensures the personal safety of the Dutchman. He said he can not go to the Castro Castro prison overcrowding said.

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), who remains the last Saturday held in the lockup of the Division of Criminal Investigation (Dirincri), eligible to be detained at maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas Ancon, as the case meets the criteria.

This is considered Wilfredo Pedraza former head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), an entity that will decide what prison should be conducted abroad. He explained that come to carve three considerations: the seriousness of the offense, the history of Van der Sloot and his vocation to escape.

In his opinion, there are other factors that lead to the INPE opt for this decision, one of them to ensure the personal security of the murder charge.

"There are versions abroad who say they do not have the conditions to guarantee the life of this man, which would be ruled out taking him to a prison as Piedras Gordas," he said told the newspaper La República.

Pedraza said that in the screening stage of the prisoner taken into account if the Dutchman had other income to prison for crimes he was accused before and analyze their psychological profile.

He said the alleged murderer could not be held in Lurigancho because there are no security conditions that are required. San Jorge also ruled out, considering that the crime of which he accuses Van der Sloot is of "extreme gravity."

As recalled, a day before the press reported that the citizen has put up a cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison and that his neighbor would be the Colombian hit man Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, a key element in the crime of Jewish businesswoman Myriam Fefer.

On this prison in Castro Castro stated that there is a problem of internal insecurity and overcrowding.

"The committee classifier takes into account all these factors and decide the penalty, and in this case I will be Ancon segurote" he said.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-van-der-sloot-califica-para-ser-recluido-en-piedras-gordas-afirman-noticia_270465.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 11:11:32 AM
Did anyone recognize this as a map for Santiago?  Or maybe it's just a brochure of some type?

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06062010_Santiago.jpg)

Does anyone know where on Hwy 68 iirc that Joran was captured?

Would it be of any interest if one of the friends of Anita had visited Santiago, Valparaíso, and Vina del Mar?  Maybe just coincidence?  Not quite sure of the timing but maybe in the past year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C3%B1a_del_Mar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valpara%C3%ADso

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Santiago+Chile&sll=-33.065363,-71.555672&sspn=0.142422,0.220757&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Santiago,+Chile&ll=-33.360356,-70.977173&spn=1.135546,1.766052&z=9

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06062010_Map_Chile.jpg)


The closest village was Curacavi. It's on your map.

Thanks msmarple!

http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

Can someone please bring this over for me? Everytime I try to read it my browser shuts down. TIA

snip

JORAN’S  EXCITEMENT KICKS IN  WHEN ON THE RUN

But he taxi drivers to whom Joran paid $640 to transport him from Lima to Vinya de Mar Chile where he was apprehended, reported that they noticed that their passenger showed signals of nervousness.

snip


Thanks Roxibalboa and Northern Rose!

VERY interesting!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 11:13:42 AM
I don't think the cover up will fall like a house of cards at all because no matter what is found to have happened, Aruba/Netherlands won't do anything to anybody no matter how badly the may have deliberately obstructed justice.

Aruba will say they are conducting an investigation and then do nothing or even say mistakes were made, what a shame and not do anything at all.  Not to anybody even if they participate to the extent of disposing of remains.

The only way I think anything would ever actually be done is for Interpol to do it and they have to be "invited" and we know Aruba will never do that nor will the Dutch order it done.  I wonder if the U.S. could ask for an Interpol investigation into corruption now with Aruba allowing Joran to sneak off the island with the extradition warrant due any day?



Anna, I think you're absolutely correct.  I had mentioned earlier about things falling like a house of cards; however, I wasn't thinking about legally and the authorities of Aruba doing anything about it.  What I was thinking of is that little bits and pieces of information start flowing out from all sorts of people about happenings at the time.  I believe many, many people are actually involved in the cover-up and/or have been told about it from those who were involved. 

I gave up long ago on Aruba handling anything responsibly and hold zero hope.  I still have a little hope that since Joran's been captured and once it's realized he's not getting out, that tidbits will start coming out...more and more...from others (other than Joran, etc.).



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 11:14:12 AM
Joran wants a Dutch Lawyer
   
   
 (AP) - The murder suspect Joran van der Sloot wants a Dutch lawyer.  This reports the newssite Peru21 using information from his Peruvian lawyer.
 
 It is unclear whether his lawyer in the Netherlands, Bert de Rooij, will assume his defense in Peru.  De Rooij was right not respond Monday.  According to the Peruvian lawyer Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, Joran is looking for contact with his mother, whom he spoke by phone Thursday.  If the counselor to make way for a Dutch colleague, is unclear .
 De Rooij said last week that he tried to advise Joran, but did not heard from him.  Van der Sloot mailed him Thursday after his arrest in Chile from a police department with questions.  The lawyer has "numerous times"tried to call Van der Sloot  but got no answer.

 The Peruvian police is investigating a laptop in the backpack of the 22-year-old Van der Sloot had on him and possibly belonged to the murdered Stephany Flores.  Her father explained that his daughter the day before the murder, had given her one thousand U.S. dollars to buy a laptop. Van der Sloot had Chilean, Bolivian and Peruvian money.  Monday, the first results of the autopsy to come outside.

http://binnenland.nieuws.nl/599169


well crap, another contradictory report in several ways...now it states he wants a Dutch attorney. It was previously stated he wanted a Peruvian attorney. Now this states he had Chilean, Bolivian and Peruvian money....when a previous one stated differently....unless this is he money he said he had back in his hotel.  Monday, the first results of the autopsy....but her father has already stated there were no signs of rape or intercourse.......  my head is spinning


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 07, 2010, 11:18:58 AM
Does anyone know if a "date rape drug" has a hypnotic effect to where the user can pretty much be commanded to do anything? 

If so, that would account for the odd interaction between Joran and Stephany in the video at the hostel...earlier discussion was that it was odd that she just held her head down and there was no conversation going on between them. 





One theory I have is that Stephany was unaccustomed to going into a dive motel and was keeping her head low because of embarrassment.  I believe she was there to get her money and go.  If she was drugged, that could be another reason she was detached from Joran and the situation on cameras.  JMHO


My first thought when I saw Stephany in the hotel video was she looked embarrassed. I would think she was probably very recognizable considering who her father is. Maybe she didn't want to be seen recognized in the
hotel.......it looked more like a dump/dive than any hotel to me. From her father's own mouth, he said Stephany was raised only seeing the more wealthy ways of living. She would have been uncomfortable in such seedy accommodations.IMO

Question: Did Stephany's father say who was selling her a laptop. Was it Joran? Maybe that's how he got her up to his room. He said he gave her $1000 for it, but I couldn't translate if she was buying it from a person or a store.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 11:21:54 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.
I think I heard Megan Kelly say they do not have the death penalty.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:22:02 AM
No game on Joran van der Sloot
Vs Lama. Joran is a title created by SenseStudios, in which a caller must spitting image of the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores.

The company has created the game SenseStudios vs Lama. Joran, in which a caller must spitting image of Joran van der Sloot, the alleged murderer of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores.


For each shot (spit) smiling face appears successful journalist Peter Rudolf de Vries, who investigated the case of the crime of Joran van der Sloot against American Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

http://dev.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-crean-videojuego-sobre-joran-van-der-sloot-noticia_270492.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 11:23:43 AM
Appreciate all the links & updates!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 11:24:43 AM
Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.

I was wondering if she was one of the ones who was paid off when Joran was telling Greta another one might not be a police officer.  If I recall correctly, she was all into helping Beth and suddenly, she turned on her after visiting Anita.  Do you think $50,000 might change her mind? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 11:28:56 AM
cecilita - hello, I am not the best to answer you, but no, I don't think we have heard of any other girls with Joran in Peru. But if Joran was slipping drugs (date rape drugs - roofies?) in drinks, there might be someone there who doesn't even remember.

darleen - hello again! I think there's speculation that (a) Stephany's father, in his compassion for Natalee's family, might agree to Joran serving his sentence in The Netherlands, IF (b) Joran tells where Natalee's remains are. (They better watch the fine print on that one, though - Joran's "in the ocean" just can't be allowed to suffice. At whose expense would that recovery be, and how long before Aruba gets its hands into it?)

Wow!  I didn't know it was even being considered for Joran to serve his sentence in The Netherlands!  I thought any negotiations would only be for a better prison within Peru.  In the end this is likely a decision the three judge panel will make anyway but I do not want Joran to be able to go back to The NL at all.  They will release him or let him live in posh surroundings.

I hope he not only serves any sentence he receives in Peru but also in the high-altitude prisons where it is bitterly cold and has no heat, electricity for the prisoners and they have to buy their own food if they have enough to eat.

I hope that group of terrorist-loving lawyers at the Hague and the UN do not enter into this lest they give Joran a scholarship to Harvard. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 11:30:12 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.
I think I heard Megan Kelly say they do not have the death penalty.


hi Tyler!   good to see you!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 07, 2010, 11:30:35 AM
Joran is playing the game... Again

Peru better have some backbone or Joran and his Dutch game player attorneys will walk all over their system of justice and Joran will be camping in a prison in the Netherlands in the end and released after only 12 years.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 11:31:27 AM
Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.

I was wondering if she was one of the ones who was paid off when Joran was telling Greta another one might not be a police officer.  If I recall correctly, she was all into helping Beth and suddenly, she turned on her after visiting Anita.  Do you think $50,000 might change her mind? 

In a heart beat....it would take her several lifetimes to make 50K on her knees


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 11:32:25 AM
Joran is playing the game... Again

Peru better have some backbone or Joran and his Dutch game player attorneys will walk all over their system of justice and Joran will be camping in a prison in the Netherlands in the end and released after only 12 years.

YEP!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 11:34:48 AM
Puzzler,

When mixed with alcohol, the effects of that become unpredictible.  We have had monkeys who posted personal experiences of becoming compliant after being drugged even if that is not the expected result.  Normally in medical lit when it says hypnotic, it means sleep-inducing.  But we have had those who said they became completely compliant and obedient and didn't know why and didn't recall walking and talking until others told them what they did.

So I personally think that it could account for Stephany Flores different mannerisms but JMO.  And that of her father apparently.  Mixing alcohol with most drugs does make a difference.  And the wrappers were found in her vehicle.

I heard Mark Furman saying it was found either in Joran's baggage or in the car that he had abandoned.  Cannot recall which.  Does anyone recall that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:35:06 AM
http://www.sense-studios.com/lamavsjoran/

Click on the link above to play the game:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JOranGame.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: loca on June 07, 2010, 11:35:34 AM
What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.
I think I heard Megan Kelly say they do not have the death penalty.


hi Tyler!   good to see you!!


under peruvian law
only cause for the death penalty is! treason and killing a police officer.
its been all over the news.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:36:04 AM
Dutchman suspected murderer hits his head

  Nervous and worried is the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot at the headquarters of the Dirincri, who on one occasion was caught by officers banging his head into the elevator. To prevent self-injury, four police officers guarded the jail where the alleged murderer of sleep Stephany Flores, victimized in the TAC hotel located in Miraflores.

According to a police source, the alien speaks of other items normally. However, when addressing the case of Stephany "gets nervous and does not know what to say."

"He is calm, at times is quiet, thoughtful and even nervous. We tried to resuscitate him at all times, although the situation is difficult. While trying to deny his crime, he knows in his conscience that there is much evidence that could incriminate" said the source.

Last night he came to the Homicide Division of the Dutchman's defense Dirincri assigned by the Public Ministry, as the Consulate of the Netherlands is not supporting.

It was learned that the prosecution would have appointed Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid as the foreign office lawyer and translator to Mauritius Stains.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=39&txtNota_id=367663


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 11:36:10 AM
I need my ROFLMAO smilie ;)

First this.....

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ElaineGlendaRU060610.jpg)

Then this response, LOL


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/resignedcr060710.jpg)

OMG!!!! ROFLMAO!!!! Klaas, that made my day!!!
Why am I almost envious of them being able to spar with Renho????? It's like taking candy from a baby, but I'd enjoy seeing the slime trail as she sluts slugs away!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 11:37:50 AM
Puzzler,

When mixed with alcohol, the effects of that become unpredictible.  We have had monkeys who posted personal experiences of becoming compliant after being drugged even if that is not the expected result.  Normally in medical lit when it says hypnotic, it means sleep-inducing.  But we have had those who said they became completely compliant and obedient and didn't know why and didn't recall walking and talking until others told them what they did.

So I personally think that it could account for Stephany Flores different mannerisms but JMO.  And that of her father apparently.  Mixing alcohol with most drugs does make a difference.  And the wrappers were found in her vehicle.

I heard Mark Furman saying it was found either in Joran's baggage or in the car that he had abandoned.  Cannot recall which.  Does anyone recall that?

found on the seat of Stephany's car that Joran abandoned

Joran abandoned the car in a very sleezy part of town 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 11:39:26 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".


I suppose I should be a lady and not print this here, but it was my thought that Joran had tried to force Stephany to give him a Monica, and she refused, and that infuriated him to think that she would not be delighted to do so.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:40:21 AM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/07/joran-van-der-sloot-shamans-use-voodoo-like-dolls-to-spiritually-punish-jvds/

Joran Van der Sloot: Shamans Use Voodoo-like Doll to “Spiritually Punish JVDS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 11:41:48 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?



No, her cell phone is on automatic dial to the Hague.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 11:44:15 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 11:45:43 AM
Mark Furhman just reported on Fox News, saying he was standing outside Hotel TAC
Evidence again Joran very strong in that Stephany walked into room w/Joran
digital surveillance very good – they sit at a desk watching 16 screens
no one exited that room except Joran
I was just up in the room and there are bars on the inside of the windows so the chance of anyone coming in or out of the windows is almost nil
Since it was Joran’s room, a lot of forensics could be explained away as being found in his room


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 11:49:30 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.

You're not remembering correctly.  Natalee NEVER had a seizure disorder.  It's been stated many, many, many times by her family members most especially Beth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 11:49:36 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.

Hi Turbo! Natalee didn't have a seizure disorder, but she may have been given something to cause a seizure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 11:50:53 AM
Does anyone know if a "date rape drug" has a hypnotic effect to where the user can pretty much be commanded to do anything?  

If so, that would account for the odd interaction between Joran and Stephany in the video at the hostel...earlier discussion was that it was odd that she just held her head down and there was no conversation going on between them.  





One theory I have is that Stephany was unaccustomed to going into a dive motel and was keeping her head low because of embarrassment.  I believe she was there to get her money and go.  If she was drugged, that could be another reason she was detached from Joran and the situation on cameras.  JMHO


My first thought when I saw Stephany in the hotel video was she looked embarrassed. I would think she was probably very recognizable considering who her father is. Maybe she didn't want to be seen recognized in the
hotel.......it looked more like a dump/dive than any hotel to me. From her father's own mouth, he said Stephany was raised only seeing the more wealthy ways of living. She would have been uncomfortable in such seedy accommodations.IMO

Question: Did Stephany's father say who was selling her a laptop. Was it Joran? Maybe that's how he got her up to his room. He said he gave her $1000 for it, but I couldn't translate if she was buying it from a person or a store.


I got the impression it was more like a business deal. It did not appear at all that it was a romantic involvement. I wondered if he lost money to her and she drove him there under the pretense he had money there to pay her. All accounts of him at the tournament was he was a "rail hanger" (not someone playing in the tournament), but there are a lot of "side games" at tournaments like that and it is my guess he lost money to her and lured her there to collect the money.

My guess is when he got her there he tired his usual forcible sex by having put the date rape drug in her drink and she did not react like he wanted so he killed her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 11:51:02 AM
After the court decision not to rearrest Van der Sloot was affirmed, Twitty stated, "I think that what I do take comfort in, his life is a living hell",[144] later adding, "I'd be good with a Midnight Express prison anywhere for Joran." --Beth, per Wikipedia, Natalee Holloway.

Do you think Beth really said that? I don't recall. I thought it was astonishing, given what's happened ...

I take anything on Wikipedia with a box of salt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 11:54:18 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.

Hi Turbo! Natalee didn't have a seizure disorder, but she may have been given something to cause a seizure.

Where did I get that?  I could have sworn I read that her mother or Jug said that. I will research that because it is a very important side note. It could be that his apologists put that out there because I wondered if that was true if she did have a seizure he could have thought she was dead when she went into to the "resting state afterward" when she really wasn't and dumped the body when she was really alive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 11:57:04 AM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.

You're not remembering correctly.  Natalee NEVER had a seizure disorder.  It's been stated many, many, many times by her family members most especially Beth.

Okay, then how did the seizure come up early in the case? He had to have seen her have a seizure for that to come out. I have not kept up with this case as well as I have the KC case, and I hate it I put this out there when it was not true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 11:57:17 AM
After the court decision not to rearrest Van der Sloot was affirmed, Twitty stated, "I think that what I do take comfort in, his life is a living hell",[144] later adding, "I'd be good with a Midnight Express prison anywhere for Joran." --Beth, per Wikipedia, Natalee Holloway.

Do you think Beth really said that? I don't recall. I thought it was astonishing, given what's happened ...

I take anything on Wikipedia with a box of salt.

A few pages back, it was posted that Beth DID say that on one of Greta's shows.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 12:01:58 PM
"Coming Up" ( their term, so who knows when ) on Fox: They'll talk with somebody close to Joran's family about these latest developments in Natalee's case.

They didn't say who it is. I'm hoping it's not Reho.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 12:05:07 PM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.

Hi Turbo! Natalee didn't have a seizure disorder, but she may have been given something to cause a seizure.

Where did I get that?  I could have sworn I read that her mother or Jug said that. I will research that because it is a very important side note. It could be that his apologists put that out there because I wondered if that was true if she did have a seizure he could have thought she was dead when she went into to the "resting state afterward" when she really wasn't and dumped the body when she was really alive.

Turbo? Jug and Beth were asked by ALE if Natalee had a seizure disorder early on. They said "no" and moved on. Later, after Joran described to Patrick what sounded like a seizure, Beth remembered the question and it lent weight to her belief that ALE knew what happened from the beginning.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:11:30 PM
http://www.larepublica.pe/pagina_impreso.php?pub=larepublica&anho=2010&mes=06&dia=07&pid=1&sec=01&pag=1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 12:13:39 PM
As a matter of fact, IIRC, a tape from Dana's show became an issue around the seizure thing. I beleive that Jug had stated on the show that the seizure question was asked before the DeVries video was even made. That would have verified that Beth and Jug weren't "retro remembering" the question.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 07, 2010, 12:15:07 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on how you think Anita will handle the latest with Joran, now that she doesn't have Paulus to help?

Wonder if she'll have a breakdown or if one of Paulus' old friends that are familiar with law will end up helping/guiding her?


Well, since I never saw her grieving over Paulus's death, I imagine she will continue with life as usual, playing Bingo, not instilling good values in Sebastian, cohooting with the likes of Renho, and every other doofus on the Island who will have her.


I think Anita will continue to do what she has been all along,  She is an ENABLER,  She knows what he is doing, she knows its wrong/illegal, yet she does not have the stones to stand up and speak her mind because she knows in the end that Joran is violent and that scares her.  She has behaved as a submissive person. She did not know how to deal with the mess  then, she certainly isn't going to stir up the bees nest now.  She is a product of her upbringing where the women were controlled by their husbands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: msmarple on June 07, 2010, 12:15:29 PM
I'm not sure that this type of link works for videos, but MSNBC has some interesting stuff I haven't seen. I didn't listen, but the visuals are interesting and INCLUDE Natalee and Paulus at the same table in the casino, and a bare-chested Joran getting a medical once-over, I guess.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37550183#37550183 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37550183#37550183)

Tyler - Turns out Beth did tell Greta, Nov. 2008, that she would be good with a "Midnight Express" type prison anywhere. (Not exact words.) I can't take time to find it right now, but it is so strange given this turn of events.

And Hi! Nice to see you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 12:16:37 PM
Former attorney questioned Joran van der Sloot tests involving the murder of Stephany Dutchman Flores (with video)

Joseph Tacopina hinted that a third person would be responsible for murder. Also expressed its surprise that the body has been found in the room just three days after the crime

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" Asked the renowned lawyer Joseph Tacopina to question one of the strongest proofs that involve the citizen Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the murder of the young Stephany Flores occurred on Sunday 30 May.

Joseph Tacopina, who successfully defended Van der Sloot in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl five years ago, referred to the fact that the Dutchman admitted with Stephany Flores Tac Miraflores hotel early 30 May, but was only hours later, according to security video showed the accommodation.

Thus, the lawyer also defended the late King of Pop Michael Jackson hinted that a third person would be responsible for crime.

In a telephone conversation from New York with the TV program "Panorama", Joseph Tacopina also expressed surprise at the time that passed between the alleged day of the murder and the discovery of the body of Stephany.

More soon ....

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490841/ex-abogado-joran-cuestiona-pruebas-que-involucran-holandes-asesinato-stephany

Poor Joey .... He just won't admit he knows Joran is a killer...even when he is not representing him..... pathetic. Joey, WE may not know who was in the room, but you can bet your boots w/ a camera that close to the door -- that the authorities know how many people went in and out of that room ;) Joey, ya make me want to puke.......


Joe might change his mind if Julia and Dan do not come up with some money.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:16:38 PM
He would have killed for money

New hypothesis. Police points to the bank accounts of Stephany Flores. Agents of the Homicide Division say Joran van der Sloot was able to force the girl to withdraw money or make a bank transfer.

One week before the murder of Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez, police still can not decipher a great mystery: why this crime. However, officers of the Homicide Division who boast of not discarding any hypothesis, now point to the bank accounts of the victim.

Researchers are almost convinced that, after being seduced by Joran van der Sloot, the young woman was allegedly forced him to make withdrawals of cash or bank transfer.

It is likely that the decline has been beaten to death on the morning of May 30.

"The Dutchman suspected psychopath fled with only the money he found at hand," said an official in charge of the investigation.

If the suspect attempted to steal using violence, triggering the death of the young could be sentenced to life imprisonment as provided for in the Penal Code.

But in the case of culpable homicide only the penalty goes up to 35 years in prison.

 "Killing for pleasure is an aggravating factor, the same as if the murder is committed with great ferocity or cruelty," the lawyer told RPP Julio Rodriguez.

He also said that in the event that these criminal attitudes have converged on the crime of Stephany, it would be before a "perfect competition" in law, ie, the confluence of several aggravating.

The Van der Sloot cell

Other detectives question arose from the spread of video TAC hotel where it is clear that Stephany 309 into the room without any portfolio.

However, sources confirmed Dirincri early Wednesday 2 June, when they discovered the body was found in the room the girl's purse with a cell phone, a nextel and credit cards.

In this line telephone crossovers will be crucial in the investigation.

The authorities said that during his stay in Lima, Van der Sloot was the cell phone No. 992 449 541.

"We are analyzing which received and made calls from that number," revealed agent Homicide.

In business agenda

This number was found in the agenda of 992692461 cell belonging to the Albanian businessman Elton Garcia, who met Joran and Stephany and Fiesta casinos in Atlantic City.

"That person (Joran) called me on my cell phone and said he had taken my number through another player (poker). Before this I saved it on my agenda, "Elton said in his statement of June 4 in the Dirincri and in the presence of fiscal Sofia Rivas La Madrid.

Stephany was lucid

On the other hand, the skills practiced in the blood samples will reveal whether the victim had or toxic substances in the body of the young.

That is, not yet detected the presence of alcohol or drugs.

Although not yet have the results of drug tests it appears that Stephany was lucid when he was killed.

Forensic experts found further that the victim had consumed a quantity of alcohol enough to be defenseless against an attack.

"It could be established that he was lucid but, nevertheless, offered little or no resistance," said one researcher.

Is marijuana user

Another report criminological evidence suggests that the murder would have happened after "a fit of anger."

"It is likely that the murderer is a drug, possibly marijuana," he says.

While this is a subjective report, and could be rebutted by other evidence, is the first time offered specific views on the alleged murderer's profile.

Netherlands back to the hotel

Joran van der Sloot, 22, is confined in the dungeons of the eighth floor of the headquarters of the Criminal Investigation Department.

Three actors take turns daily to watch closely.

"He's quiet and has proven foods that we have achieved," said the head of the Homicide Division, Colonel Angel Canlla prayed.

The alleged psychopath Dutchman speaks English, Netherlands and Spanish very well understood.

Last night would have made some inquiries with the detainee.

Van der Sloot will be transferred to the hotel TAC to establish the routine performed between 5:20 am Sunday May 30, when joined with the girl to the room 309 - 8:45 a.m. until he retired alone.

"There is evidence that Stephany was killed in that time, there's no doubt," said the Colonel experienced Canlla.

Did you know ...

Psychologist. This week will be completed psychological skills can be key and were suspended yesterday at the request of the alleged murderer.

Mineral water. Joran van der Sloot claimed to be exhausted from the long trip he made to Santiago de Chile to Lima. He slept seven hours and a half and asked enough mineral water.

U.S. would request his extradition

On June 4 Lima Interpol received a priority message 'urgent' Interpol Washington that bears the reference number 614 688 and as a matter of Joran van der Sloot.

The document indicates that at the request of the United States government "please locate the fugitive and immediately notify Washington and IPSG Interpol."

It also adds that "once you notify the authorities of the United States, if possible, formally requested the arrest order for the pension with a view to their extradition in accordance with any applicable extradition treaty."

http://www.larepublica.pe/archive/all/larepublica/20100607/1/node/270827/total/01


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Searching on June 07, 2010, 12:22:05 PM
Does anyone know if a "date rape drug" has a hypnotic effect to where the user can pretty much be commanded to do anything?  

If so, that would account for the odd interaction between Joran and Stephany in the video at the hostel...earlier discussion was that it was odd that she just held her head down and there was no conversation going on between them.  





One theory I have is that Stephany was unaccustomed to going into a dive motel and was keeping her head low because of embarrassment.  I believe she was there to get her money and go.  If she was drugged, that could be another reason she was detached from Joran and the situation on cameras.  JMHO


My first thought when I saw Stephany in the hotel video was she looked embarrassed. I would think she was probably very recognizable considering who her father is. Maybe she didn't want to be seen recognized in the
hotel.......it looked more like a dump/dive than any hotel to me. From her father's own mouth, he said Stephany was raised only seeing the more wealthy ways of living. She would have been uncomfortable in such seedy accommodations.IMO

Question: Did Stephany's father say who was selling her a laptop. Was it Joran? Maybe that's how he got her up to his room. He said he gave her $1000 for it, but I couldn't translate if she was buying it from a person or a store.


I got the impression it was more like a business deal. It did not appear at all that it was a romantic involvement. I wondered if he lost money to her and she drove him there under the pretense he had money there to pay her. All accounts of him at the tournament was he was a "rail hanger" (not someone playing in the tournament), but there are a lot of "side games" at tournaments like that and it is my guess he lost money to her and lured her there to collect the money.

My guess is when he got her there he tired his usual forcible sex by having put the date rape drug in her drink and she did not react like he wanted so he killed her.

Those are my thoughts as well Turbo. Hello


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 12:23:56 PM
I don't think the cover up will fall like a house of cards at all because no matter what is found to have happened, Aruba/Netherlands won't do anything to anybody no matter how badly the may have deliberately obstructed justice.

Aruba will say they are conducting an investigation and then do nothing or even say mistakes were made, what a shame and not do anything at all.  Not to anybody even if they participate to the extent of disposing of remains.

The only way I think anything would ever actually be done is for Interpol to do it and they have to be "invited" and we know Aruba will never do that nor will the Dutch order it done.  I wonder if the U.S. could ask for an Interpol investigation into corruption now with Aruba allowing Joran to sneak off the island with the extradition warrant due any day?

Are you kidding, Anna, are you forgetting who is at the DoJ right now?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 12:25:27 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....part of the tape shows Stephany walking into the casino, and then shows Joran and Stephany walking out of the casino.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/37550183#37550183



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:29:07 PM
Permanently monitored Van der Sloot in the lockup Dirincri
A Dutchman police custody, alleged murderer of Stephany Flores, to prevent attempts against his life, during their stay in the lockup of Dirincri.

The alleged murderer of Stephany Flores, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, is guarded 24 hours a day by a police officer to prevent impairment of its life.


RPP Police sources informed that while there has been no incident of this nature, the surveillance is permanent while detained in the lockup of Criminal Investigation Department (Dirincri).


It emerged that Van der Sloot is eating normally and is the same menu as the police.

The Dutchman has not made any request to their custodians but he has been worried.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-vigilan-permanentemente-a-van-der-sloot-en-carceleta-de-la-dirincri-noticia_270511.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:30:45 PM
Joran Van der Sloot would be detained in the prison Piedras Gordas

According to experts, by the seriousness of crime and personal safety, the Dutchman should be confined in jail in Ancon.

For Wilfredo Pedraza former head of the National Penitentiary Institute, INPE, the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores, eligible to be admitted to the prison's maximum security Piedras Gordas at Ancon.

According to Pedraza Sierra, INPE, which will decide in coming weeks in what prison should be conducted abroad, discusses three considerations in deciding on the theme: the severity of the crime, his background and vocation of flight.

But the former head of the National Penitentiary Institute, there is a fundamental factor is taken into account in these cases and to ensure the personal safety of the accused.

http://www.24horas.com.pe/nacionales/1275933587.php



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 12:31:42 PM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.


CNN Larry King Live - February 7, 2008
 
BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  When he imitates how Natalee was suffering through the seizures, well, Larry, within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance on the island of Aruba, a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), first and only medical question he asked me was, does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures. And I said, no, why would you ask that?
 
And he only asked me that once, and from there forward, three other detectives asked Natalee's step father probably a dozen times, Larry. Jug had to come to me six times and ask me if Natalee had a history of epilepsy or seizure. And I kept saying no, why do you keep asking us that? Why? So, it brought it full circle for us.
 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/07/lkl.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 12:32:04 PM
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

Can someone please bring this over for me? Everytime I try to read it my browser shuts down. TIA

Joran Van der Sloot’s Body Language- Moist Eyes Do Not Remorse or Sadness But Stunned Look Shows How He Did Not Expect To Get Caught
June 6, 2010 - One Response

Any moist eyes you see on Potential serial killer, Joran Van de Sloot, (and I use the term potential serial killer because the definition of a serial killer is having three or more killings under their belt and in Joran’s case there are only two of which we know)  are not tears of remorse or sadness .

Instead, they are tears  which reveal his body’s adrenalin rush  in both the shock and excitement over the new situation where he is the focus of being captured for killing a young Peruvian woman, Stephanie Flores .

In fact that is why it has been reported that Joan looked stunned. He is no doubt in complete shock that he was caught. His narcissism would never allow him to imagine what the consequences would be if this happened to him.

The tears are due to his autonomic nervous system essentially taking over and expelling tears in his system. The reason I say this is because serial killers and would be serial killers have no emotion. They do not feel the same things as we who are not serial killers feel. They shallow affect, lack of empathy, incapacity for love, and a definite  lack of guilt or remorse. In essence Joran is not at all capable of normal emotions in relation to situational appropriate events.

BAD BODY LANGUAGE SIGNS FROM THE GET GO

When you look at the photo of Joran Van Der Sloot at the front desk to pick up his room key after a long night out with Ms. Flores in tow, there is the exact same sadistic smirk that he had when he told an undercover reporter that he killed another young woman, Natalie Holloway  him several years back.

The fact that Joran is walking in front of Ms. Flores  and doesn’t acknowledge her in the surveillance tapes  is not a good sign. It shows a detachment from her.

He doesn’t even look at her when he enters his room with her  which is also a bad sign as it shows he doesn’t care about her. There is not politeness of gentlemanly consideration of letting her enter the room ahead of him.

Once again it speaks to his extreme egocentric and narcissistic behavior ,which most psychopaths demonstrate.

CALM COOL AND COLLECTED AFTER LEAVING A MURDERED BODY IN THE ROOM

If you look at this surveillance photo of Joran leaving the hotel room 4 hours  after he allegedly killed this young  woman as he is dressed in a fresh set of clothes,  his demeanor shows a calmness. There is no muscle tension in his face whatsoever.

There is even that sick smirk on his face that we saw when he admitted  killing Natalie and when he got the key from the front desk four hours earlier when he knew exactly what he was going to do to unsuspecting Sephanie Flores.

There is no tension, or upset or nervous reaction in his gait as he leaves the hotel. His strike is calm and relaxed and not hurried, In fact  His  He looks like he was going for a stroll without a care in the world, carrying a bag and a backpack.

JORAN’S  EXCITEMENT KICKS IN  WHEN ON THE RUN

But he taxi drivers to whom Joran paid $640 to transport him from Lima to Vinya de Mar Chile where he was apprehended, reported that they noticed that their passenger showed signals of nervousness.

No doubt Joran  moved around and squirmed a lot in the back of the cab as he was reported to continuously chain smoke.

Even though they interpreted his behavior as nervous the truth was that Joran was no doubt more excited than nervous and all the extraneous  movement the cab drivers observed  was the result of his autonomic system taking over.

Joran was excited that he was on his way to getting away with yet another murder to satisfy his sick appetite.

JORAN ACTUALLY  BELIEVED HE COULD GET AWAY WITH MURDER

Joran’s narcissism and eccentricity allowed him to assume that he would get away with murder. He was so sure that he would not get caught that  didn’t even do anything to hide the brutally beaten body complete with the neck he snapped and broke. He didn’t even take the time to check out of the hotel. He just went on his merry way.

Why should he think of the consequences? Five years earlier, to the day, he got away with the murder of another young beautiful girl, Even though he was arrested repeatedly, he beat the system.

NO DADDY TO PROTECT AND  ENABLE JORAN


His father  Paulus also had his back at the time enabling him in his sickness. But now that daddy , who suddenly  died of a heart attack  four months earlier is gone, Joran has no one to cover for him or to tell him that he is loved unconditionally.

Perhaps Joran’s going out of his way to kill again had something to do with the recent death of his father. Since he cannot mourn  his father’s death because has no feelings, he  wants to feel something.

So he kills again to feel something, he kills to feel the excitement and the adrenalin rush he no doubt felt when he killed Natalie Hollyway.

PARADED AROUND TO REPORTERS


Three times, Joran  wearing a green  bullet proof vest,  was paraded around to hundreds of people, including reporters.

No doubt authorities wanted everyone to get a glimpse of this real live monster who killed a lovely innocent woman who did not deserve such a horrific fate.

JORAN DENIES KILLING STEPHANIE  FLORES

So now that daddy isn’t there to protect him, 22 year old Joran is reaching out to mommy as  told authorities to call his mother in Aruba. My heart does go out to his mother whom I am sure had no idea that she spawned a monster.

JORAN DENIES DENIES AND DENIES SOME MORE

Of course  Joran  denied any involvement in Stephanie’s death. Little does he know about the surveillance cameras. The fact that he didn’t check out yet left with his bags and belongings, and took a cab to Chile instead of to the airport and flying directly  to Argentina and his cropped short dyed red hair at attempts to disguise himself,  does not bode well for him.

Even one of the best defense lawyers Joe Tacaopina won’t be able to help him. Tacopina was heard on television shows saying how it is easy to blame Joran because he has a bullseye on his back from the Holloway incident. But no one will be able to defend Joran this time- especially in Peru.

JORAN’S NEW HOME FOR THE REST OF HIS PATHETIC LIFE


A Peruvian prison is not anyplace anyone would want to be, especially when they are only given on e blanket in the freezing cold of the Andes Mountains. Since Peru does not have the death sentence, the rest of Joran’s  life will be a living  hell.

Just ask former American college student  Lori Berenson who was accused of political activism in Peru. She spent  15 of the   best years of her life in this hell and she didn’t even  kill anyone.

So one can only imagine what will happen to Joran when he is locked up. The fact that he killed the daughter of a beloved national hero- a Peruvian race car driver and Presidential candidate  won’t sit well with prison guards and other prisoners. Neither will the fact that he is an outsider and a foreigner.

And let’s say he does get 30 years and is released when he is in his 50’s, no doubt he will be extradited  to the US where he will face extortion charges in Alabama and spend the remainder of his life in a US prison. He tried to extort $250,000 from  an associate of the Holloway family in exchange for revealing the whereabouts of Natalie.

One of Joran’s buddies  who was interviewed said he had a gambling and drug addiction. That is no doubt because those are the only times his adrenalin kicks in and he can feel anything. He also apparently has a killing young innocent women addiction which thankfully has come to an end. Now both Natalie and Stephanie can rest in peace!  wwdrlillianglass.com

Categorized in Criminal and body language
Tags: lillian glass, body language expert, psychology, sociopath, body language analyusis, Ricardo Fores Vasques, Natalie Holloway, Joran Van de Sloot, Paulus Van der Sloot, Joran van der Sloot's mother, Joran Van der sloot's father, Dr. Lillin Glass, psychopth, narcicissm, egocentic, serial killer, Vander sloot caught in oeru, Peruvian prison, Joran Van der Sloot;s Body Language, body languiage analysis


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:32:59 PM
Netherlands consider any official reaction if Joran Van der Sloot

According to published today Dutchman news portal "Radio Nederland, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the European country would be studying a possible official reaction about how to proceed in Peru regarding the case of a suspect in the murder of Stephany Flores, Joran Van der Sloot .

According to the said medium, while the Netherlands embassy has protested the publication of material against the young accuser in Europe, "the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is considering a possible official reaction about how to proceed in Peru. A spokesman Foreign Affairs said: I posed the query to the ministry about how we must act. "

Radio Nederlands adds: "In principle, the Netherlands does not deal with the trials conducted in other countries, but it is possible that in this case there is reason to protest. The suspect, meanwhile, still claims his innocence in the death of Stephany Flores. "

The news portal reported some discomfort regarding the publication of information - as the first interrogation the accused - comunicacfión in several media, including internet.

Peru and the Netherlands have no extradition agreement that allows foreign defendants should be tried in their own country, even if you are negotiating for some time on a so-called WOTS agreement, which stipulates that the Dutchmen arrested in another country can fulfill its sentence in the Netherlands. It is unclear when it will reach an agreement.

"Even if such an agreement was closed after a conviction of Van der Sloot, the Dutchman could still benefit from it. The condition is that both countries had no objections and that the culprit himself would agree. It is too early to that if Peru would agree with that kind of extradition, "covered by that news portal.

http://tvperu.gob.pe/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1920


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 12:40:17 PM
http://www.larepublica.pe/pagina_impreso.php?pub=larepublica&anho=2010&mes=06&dia=07&pid=1&sec=01&pag=1


My copy is slightly different in the right hand corner.  Wonder if Joran was trying to pull a Mark Karr?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 12:45:17 PM
Former attorney questioned Joran van der Sloot tests involving the murder of Stephany Dutchman Flores (with video)

Joseph Tacopina hinted that a third person would be responsible for murder. Also expressed its surprise that the body has been found in the room just three days after the crime

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" Asked the renowned lawyer Joseph Tacopina to question one of the strongest proofs that involve the citizen Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the murder of the young Stephany Flores occurred on Sunday 30 May.

Joseph Tacopina, who successfully defended Van der Sloot in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl five years ago, referred to the fact that the Dutchman admitted with Stephany Flores Tac Miraflores hotel early 30 May, but was only hours later, according to security video showed the accommodation.

Thus, the lawyer also defended the late King of Pop Michael Jackson hinted that a third person would be responsible for crime.

In a telephone conversation from New York with the TV program "Panorama", Joseph Tacopina also expressed surprise at the time that passed between the alleged day of the murder and the discovery of the body of Stephany.

More soon ....

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490841/ex-abogado-joran-cuestiona-pruebas-que-involucran-holandes-asesinato-stephany

Poor Joey .... He just won't admit he knows Joran is a killer...even when he is not representing him..... pathetic. Joey, WE may not know who was in the room, but you can bet your boots w/ a camera that close to the door -- that the authorities know how many people went in and out of that room ;) Joey, ya make me want to puke.......


Joe might change his mind if Julia and Dan do not come up with some money.


Joe, the reason we know that no third person was waiting in the room is that no one but Joran left the room...no one...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 12:45:22 PM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



No seizure disorder.  Beth wondered why she was queried about Natalee possibly having a seizure disorder.
If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 07, 2010, 12:46:58 PM
lol Klaas


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 12:47:45 PM
I'm not sure that this type of link works for videos, but MSNBC has some interesting stuff I haven't seen. I didn't listen, but the visuals are interesting and INCLUDE Natalee and Paulus at the same table in the casino, and a bare-chested Joran getting a medical once-over, I guess.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37550183#37550183 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37550183#37550183)

Tyler - Turns out Beth did tell Greta, Nov. 2008, that she would be good with a "Midnight Express" type prison anywhere. (Not exact words.) I can't take time to find it right now, but it is so strange given this turn of events.

And Hi! Nice to see you.

Yes, I saw that later.  I still take Wiki with a grain of salt.  There is far more propaganda there than truth.  It's the revisionist history book.  good to see you as well.  been a long time...  :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:48:36 PM
Four police officers watch over Joran van der Sloot is not to kill
Alleged murderer of Stephany Flores asked that his lawyer is Dutchman. He shares his cell with another prisoner for murder


The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot (22), alleged murderer of Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores, said yesterday its intention to have a lawyer of his country to assume its defense.

Dirincri fonts, whose headquarters Joran van der Sloot is being held since last Saturday, after being expelled from Chile, said that while the public prosecutor appointed counsel Luisa Camargo Rosa Madrid as his defender, Dutchman forward to insist with the consulate of your country to provide him a lawyer of his nationality.

"As happened in Chile, here have been representatives of the consulate, but it is unknown if they will assist you in any way," he revealed.


PERMANENT MONITORING
Four police officers guard the Van der Sloot in jail the police building on Av Spain (Cercado de Lima), for provision of permanent presiding judge Romulo Chira Cabezas, will occupy for a semana.Se knew who fear being killed or suicide, according to the Trome. Learned that ate the food (Andean Potatoes and fried chicken) that agents served and rested without fear. He shares his cell with another inmate. Yesterday was also known to be butted against one wall of the elevator that led to the eighth floor of the Dirincri.

This fact is important for researchers, as well as the Dutchman can not appeal to fatigue not to cooperate with the investigation, as it did last Saturday.

A police video broadcast on American TV showed that the suspect is fluent in Castilian, from which it follows that the research would be unnecessary delay in the absence of a translator.

The images in question were recorded in the police station in Santa Rosa, Tacna border with Chile.

The case went to social networks
The case of Stephany Flores joined the Facebook social network via a public profile on behalf of Joran van der Sloot. The profile, with more than 439 followers to 6 pm yesterday, including press clippings, videos and comments in several languages against the prime suspect of the crime of Stephany. Also included statements of support for Van der Sloot.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491042/cuatro-policias-vigilan-joran-van-der-sloot-que-no-se-mate


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 12:53:16 PM
Reported this morning:

Joran is asking for mineral water
Joran is under permanent 24/7 watch
Joran has demonstrated perfect Castilian and therefore no delay for a translator is required
Joran is insisting on the consulate to appoint him a Dutch Attorney
Dutch Consulate has visited him in Peru as well as Chile
Anita has not surfaced yet but I hope the Shamans have some special voodoo dolls for when she surfaces


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 12:56:35 PM
Reported this morning:

Joran is asking for mineral water
Joran is under permanent 24/7 watch
Joran has demonstrated perfect Castilian and therefore no delay for a translator is required
Joran is insisting on the consulate to appoint him a Dutch Attorney
Dutch Consulate has visited him in Peru as well as Chile
Anita has not surfaced yet but I hope the Shamans have some special voodoo dolls for when she surfaces

The director is somewhere in the background pulling the strings, as always and did she know about Natalee?  Of course, she knew.  That is the reason for the phone call to her from Paulus when she was still in the NL, to return and keep her mouth shut.  It was a heads-up and from that point on, Joran shut down and never talked again after admitting to killing Natalee and everyone going to the lighthouse just before that.  Oh, yes and remember how the little strawberry-blond female Hitler got busy in New York trying to prevent Joran being confronted by Bo Dietel?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 01:07:17 PM
I pray the family of Natalee Holloway is not on another emotional roller coaster ... compliments of Aruba/Dutch involvement in the Peruvian investigation of Joran van der Sloots latest victim.

Does the Dutch Embassy advocate to such an extent for all Dutch citizens who are detained on suspicion of committing a crime in Peru?

Does the Peruvian interior minister instruct authories on all cases not to release information without his permission? 

Janet

+++++++

Van der Sloot seeks own lawyer in murder case
Peru police expected to interrogate him all week in girl's death
updated 2 hours, 18 minutes ago


Dutch Embassy chief consular officer Angela Lowe said her government was providing van der Sloot with "regular consular assistance, which means an occasional consular visit, and we will make sure he is being treated decently, just like any other inmate." ....

Van der Sloot is one of 117 Dutch citizens currently in Peruvian jails or prisons, most of them on drug-related charges, Lowe said.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.100


Van der Sloot remains jailed as murder investigation continues
June 6, 2010 9:39 p.m. EDT


The Embassy has told Peruvian authorities that it is not comfortable with the way van der Sloot has been presented to the media, Neyra said.

The Peruvian interior minister is asking authorities not to talk about the case without his authorization.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=Sbin



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:09:41 PM
PNP: Van der Sloot would have killed for money Stephany

Researchers at the Homicide Division of the National Police are almost convinced that the murder of the young Stephany Ramirez Flores, daughter of businessman and racer Ricardo Flores "rifle" would have been the money.
What would have happened, as reported by La Republica newspaper today, is that after being seduced by the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, prime suspect in her death, allegedly forced the girl to make withdrawals from any cash or bank transfer. Decline was probably beaten to death.

"The Dutchman suspected psychopath fled with only the money he found at hand," said an officer whose identity the newspaper did not identify.

According to the Penal Code, if Van der Sloot tried to steal using violence, triggering the death of Stephanie, could receive life imprisonment. If one is accused of murder, the penalty can be up to 35 years in prison.

On the other hand, the publication indicates that has not yet detected the presence of alcohol or drugs in the body of the victim, although all seem to indicate that she was lucid when he was killed.

Forensic experts found further that the victim had consumed a quantity of alcohol enough to be defenseless against an attack.

http://www.terra.com.pe/noticias/noticias/act2363943/pnp-van-der-sloot-habria-asesinado-stephany-por-dinero.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 07, 2010, 01:13:58 PM
(http://www.bucuticam.com/album2/Images/157.zoom3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 07, 2010, 01:27:37 PM
(http://i47.tinypic.com/21p02fa.jpg)

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2li7cqa.jpg)

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/more-pics-from-peru-joran-van-der-sloot-accused-of-murder/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 01:32:57 PM
Would a door like that automatically lock when you close it? There was a "normal" key not a keycard.
Because on the hotel video footage you see Joran exiting the room without locking it. If that was the time he got out to get coffee and bread would that have been on purpose to later say that someone else could've entered the room because he "forgot" to lock it? And he came back with the coffee and lookie, there's a dead body?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 01:34:53 PM
Hello, everyone.

This morning, I saw a tape (on the Today Show, I think) said to show that murderer being interrogated by the police in Peru.  It was just a very brief clip, but I thought he looked arrogant.  I think the interrogation is his favorite part because he believes he can bring them around to his point of view.  He is going to fall so far.  He's a lying murderer and they know it.

Noted from another post, what's that about him wanting mineral water?  I hope they don't give it to him; let him drink plain old jail water.

Oh, and, Klaasand, I read back and I saw that bit about WonderWoman.  lol  I think that's an excellent idea; I want to ask her a couple of things--like is there any way her psychotic thinking can believe that murderer isn't guilty now, and, is she sorry yet that she voted democratic?  (For those who don't know WonderWoman, that is another subject, but not worth meeting her.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 01:34:57 PM
Joran Van der Sloot would be detained in the prison Piedras Gordas

According to experts, by the seriousness of crime and personal safety, the Dutchman should be confined in jail in Ancon.

For Wilfredo Pedraza former head of the National Penitentiary Institute, INPE, the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores, eligible to be admitted to the prison's maximum security Piedras Gordas at Ancon.

According to Pedraza Sierra, INPE, which will decide in coming weeks in what prison should be conducted abroad, discusses three considerations in deciding on the theme: the severity of the crime, his background and vocation of flight.

But the former head of the National Penitentiary Institute, there is a fundamental factor is taken into account in these cases and to ensure the personal safety of the accused.

http://www.24horas.com.pe/nacionales/1275933587.php



Thank you Northern Rose & Good morning/afternoon Monkeys :)

(http://www.lostiempos.com/diario/actualidad/internacional/20070709/media_recortes/2007/07/09/18046_md.jpg)

Cells Piedras Gordas prison of Ancon.

http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=auto|en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lostiempos.com%2Fdiario%2Factualidad%2Finternacional%2F20070709%2Fcelda-fortificada-espera-al-%20-chino%20_15512_18047.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 01:35:02 PM
Hello everyone!  Hope all had a good weekend.  What's new?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 01:37:43 PM
Thirdstrike! Hello!  And, bye for now; I have to go run some errands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:38:58 PM
Hello, everyone.

This morning, I saw a tape (on the Today Show, I think) said to show that murderer being interrogated by the police in Peru.  It was just a very brief clip, but I thought he looked arrogant.  I think the interrogation is his favorite part because he believes he can bring them around to his point of view.  He is going to fall so far.  He's a lying murderer and they know it.

Noted from another post, what's that about him wanting mineral water?  I hope they don't give it to him; let him drink plain old jail water.

Oh, and, Klaasand, I read back and I saw that bit about WonderWoman.  lol  I think that's an excellent idea; I want to ask her a couple of things--like is there any way her psychotic thinking can believe that murderer isn't guilty now, and, is she sorry yet that she voted democratic?  (For those who don't know WonderWoman, that is another subject, but not worth meeting her.)

From all reports they gave him his blankie and mineral water, but mommy has not shown up yet.  Come out, come out where ever you are Anita.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 01:41:34 PM
Hello, everyone.

This morning, I saw a tape (on the Today Show, I think) said to show that murderer being interrogated by the police in Peru.  It was just a very brief clip, but I thought he looked arrogant.  I think the interrogation is his favorite part because he believes he can bring them around to his point of view.  He is going to fall so far.  He's a lying murderer and they know it.

Noted from another post, what's that about him wanting mineral water?  I hope they don't give it to him; let him drink plain old jail water.

Oh, and, Klaasand, I read back and I saw that bit about WonderWoman.  lol  I think that's an excellent idea; I want to ask her a couple of things--like is there any way her psychotic thinking can believe that murderer isn't guilty now, and, is she sorry yet that she voted democratic?  (For those who don't know WonderWoman, that is another subject, but not worth meeting her.)

From all reports they gave him his blankie and mineral water, but mommy has not shown up yet.  Come out, come out where ever you are Anita.
Also, am I correct in reading that they found bloddy clothes in his bag when they caught him in Chile?  Maybe that missing shoe was in the bag as well?  ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:46:21 PM
Adely interrogate again


Key. Young clerk's body was found Stephany Flores. Employee is scared but will be presented to the Police, confirmed one of his fellow Tac Hotel.

Luis Velásquez C.

In his position at the front desk Tac, we find Adely Abad Marchena. His name became widely known when a few days ago discovered the body of the student Stephany Ramirez Flores in a room of this accommodation.

In this new meeting refused to disclose details of that dreadful time. Just simply say, "I told you all to the police and if cited again I testify."

Talk a witness

Adely not supported but is scared. Hides her face whenever a stranger enters the hotel. His companions confirmed her fear. "He is afraid and the owners do not want to talk," said a man in charge of changing the sheets of the rooms.

The same worker confirms everything said by the girl to the police. "She entered the room and found the body. There was much blood (...). We realized that the Dutchman had two days of accommodation and so Adely came up with a copy of the key (...). Slow to download because it froze (...). Then up the rest. "

The boy said that this week all employees and owners of the Hotel Tac will be presented to the Dirincri to give an extension of their testimony. "We are going to say the day and time, but still I do not know. They have not said anything. "

Go to Piedras Gordas

Now what will happen to Joran van der Sloot? Because it would be sent to a maximum security prison as Piedras Gordas, because his case meets the three conditions for: seriousness of the offense, personal history (background) and its vocation to escape.

Wilfredo Pedraza believes so, former president of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), for whom there are also other factors that make you think and decide INPE authorities that the best place for citizens Dutchman accused of criminal homicide is the Ancon. "We talked about their personal safety and physical conditions of the prison makes it practically impossible a leak."

Pedraza also said that another point to consider is the "image of the country." "There are versions abroad who say they do not have the conditions to guarantee the life of this man, which would be ruled out taking him to a prison as Piedras Gordas.

This is classified

What awaits Joran van der Sloot after police investigations? To tell the former president of INPE, professionals of this institution, headed by a lawyer and psychologist, will discuss the case.

"At this stage of the classification of the inmate will be if you had other income to prison for crimes he was accused before and analyze their psychological profile."

Then take into account the security conditions in the prisons that could house it. "It could not be Lurigancho, because there are no conditions. Nor can it be the prison of San Jorge, for the offense for which he is tried is of the utmost gravity. "

"Solo is the Castro Castro prison, but there exists the problem of internal insecurity and overcrowding, so the penalty is only Piedras Gordas. The committee classifier takes into account all these factors and decide the penalty, and in this case I am sure it will be Ancon, "said Pedraza.

Flowers for burial

Stephany's grave was the most visited Sunday in the Gardens of Peace Cemetery in La Molina, a sign of affection she had classmates, friends and relatives who attended from 9 am.

Even the religious in charge of funeral services approached the cemetery several times until the burial of the young student to pray for his eternal rest and recovery of their parents hurt.

Ramirez Flores family remained outside Lima yesterday. After attending the cemetery of La Molina will fly, as other relatives, south of Lima to try to rest.

Only today will come into the Dirincri to inquire about the progress of the investigation and made available to the police to provide personal information of the young student.


Key
Revenge. A new hypothesis about the police investigating the motive for the crime of Stephany Flores. According to sources close to the investigation, as well as the probable theft Mobile has now added a possible retaliation of Joran van der Sloot against the girl.

Money. According to police sources, the Dutchman had lost a bet with Stephany game for $ 5,000, so it would certainly have wanted to recover the money by any means.

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/interrogaran-otra-vez-adely-0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:48:45 PM
FOTOS DE JORAN VAN DER SLOOT

http://biografiafotosyvideos.blogspot.com/2010/06/fotos-de-joran-van-der-sloot.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 01:55:47 PM
Would a door like that automatically lock when you close it? There was a "normal" key not a keycard.
Because on the hotel video footage you see Joran exiting the room without locking it. If that was the time he got out to get coffee and bread would that have been on purpose to later say that someone else could've entered the room because he "forgot" to lock it? And he came back with the coffee and lookie, there's a dead body?

Keyed on the outside, the inside of the door could have a button you push in then close the door to lock.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/door.jpg)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 01:59:34 PM
Lawyers advised Joran
Two assisting counsel represented him in Office and Dirincri, but calls a lawyer Dutchman. His backpack was found a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating. Author: ANA BRICEÑO
CompartirEnviar.El Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, 22, feels increasingly cornered. So, now struggling to communicate with his mother and getting a lawyer to free him from Dutchman a tough sentence which could be many years in a prison in our country. The young man is guarded by four policemen in the cells of the Dirincri. The officials said that note was tense.

LAWYERS. The public defender advised Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid abroad in the Public Ministry. Perú.21 spoke with the lawyer, who narrated that the Van Der Sloot to ask about the charges against him there, he replied: "Yes, Stephany Flores's death."

"He said he wanted to communicate with her mother and needed a lawyer from the country and not trade. Yet he counseled and asked if he had a friend in Peru, and Uruguay Elton responded that Garcia "he said.

Meanwhile, during his statement to the police in Dirincri, which lasted until dawn yesterday, another public defender, Carla Odria, as advised in this process. "I can not declare in advance because the process still continues," he said in succinct when asked about the coach.

"OTHER EVIDENCE? Also, yesterday released a video where you can see the time police searched the belongings of the Dutchman. Among them was a laptop HP brand and various notes and coins in Chile, Bolivia and Peru.

The experts are investigating the origin of the machine, as the father of Stephany, Ricardo Flores, said that one day before the murder he gave his daughter a thousand dollars to buy the unit. Police carried out a confrontation with hotel employees TAC, Miraflores, who corroborated that enter the Dutchman saw Stephany, on Sunday 30 May.

Today you could have the integral result of the autopsy that was performed on the victim. In this way you can determine whether she was raped or not.

Meanwhile, Joseph Tacopina, a former Van Der Sloot attorney who successfully defended in the case of the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, questioned via telephone communication with the Panorama program, the Dutchman evidence implicating the crime in Lima .

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" He asked. He also expressed his surprise at the time that passed between the day of the murder and the discovery of the body.

http://peru21.pe/impresa/noticia/abogadas-asesoraron-joran/2010-06-07/276910


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 02:01:14 PM
Thanks, klaasend!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 02:02:15 PM
Screen shot of them leaving the casino:

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/JORANSTEPHANYLEAVINGCASINO.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 02:03:28 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....part of the tape shows Stephany walking into the casino, and then shows Joran and Stephany walking out of the casino.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/37550183#37550183



The brief glimpse of him with his shirt off getting his medical exam is in this film.  It appears to show scratch marks on both sides of his chest, near his shoulders. Maybe Klaas can do a screen capture, I would if I could!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Windsor on June 07, 2010, 02:05:49 PM
Hi everyone -- best blog ever ...

My question -- Does a traveler need a passport or visa to travel from Peru to Chile?  If so, how did he get into Chile, with his passport back at the hotel?  Has getting from South America country to country changed like it has in Europe, where you don't even stop anymore? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 02:08:18 PM
I always wondered why they put suspects in bulletproof vests.  Anyone w/ a good aim could pop em' right between the eyes...or the back of the head, depending on which way they are facing the gunman.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 02:11:25 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....part of the tape shows Stephany walking into the casino, and then shows Joran and Stephany walking out of the casino.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/37550183#37550183



The brief glimpse of him with his shirt off getting his medical exam is in this film.  It appears to show scratch marks on both sides of his chest, near his shoulders. Maybe Klaas can do a screen capture, I would if I could!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 07, 2010, 02:13:55 PM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.

You're not remembering correctly.  Natalee NEVER had a seizure disorder.  It's been stated many, many, many times by her family members most especially Beth.

Okay, then how did the seizure come up early in the case? He had to have seen her have a seizure for that to come out. I have not kept up with this case as well as I have the KC case, and I hate it I put this out there when it was not true.

I have been on SM since before this case broke 5 years ago,  I mostly lurk but I'm here and read.  I NEVER remember Natalee having a seziure disorder....If she did, she would be on medication for it and I don't remember her needing medication for that.  Sorry....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 02:17:21 PM
Hi everyone -- best blog ever ...

My question -- Does a traveler need a passport or visa to travel from Peru to Chile?  If so, how did he get into Chile, with his passport back at the hotel?  Has getting from South America country to country changed like it has in Europe, where you don't even stop anymore? 


Windsor - good to see you!  I'm not positive on that but if it's anything like the US border, there are ways to get around it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 02:18:36 PM
Joran more likely attempted sex (she was found in her underwear) but Stephany fought him...resisted him.  We know from his talking to the guy from PR earlier in the evening that Joran was looking to pick up a female.  The resistance could have been the trigger for the rage.

I just can't help but think that a very similar occurance happened between Joran and Natalee. I'm sure most monkeys know this, but as a reminder, in reading about date rape drugs this evening, on of the possible effects is "seizures".



If I remember correctly puzzler, Natalie's mother stated one time that she had a seizure disorder. If that is right then stress or fear may have triggered a seizure for her and not the drug.

You're not remembering correctly.  Natalee NEVER had a seizure disorder.  It's been stated many, many, many times by her family members most especially Beth.

Okay, then how did the seizure come up early in the case? He had to have seen her have a seizure for that to come out. I have not kept up with this case as well as I have the KC case, and I hate it I put this out there when it was not true.

I have been on SM since before this case broke 5 years ago,  I mostly lurk but I'm here and read.  I NEVER remember Natalee having a seziure disorder....If she did, she would be on medication for it and I don't remember her needing medication for that.  Sorry....

Natalee did NOT ever have a seizure disorder of any kind.  There was talk that she may have had a sinus infection and could have had some medication with her on the trip for that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: antunym on June 07, 2010, 02:19:26 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....part of the tape shows Stephany walking into the casino, and then shows Joran and Stephany walking out of the casino.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/37550183#37550183



The brief glimpse of him with his shirt off getting his medical exam is in this film.  It appears to show scratch marks on both sides of his chest, near his shoulders. Maybe Klaas can do a screen capture, I would if I could!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt2.jpg)


It looks like she is holding a ruler and possibly measuring something on his shoulder like a scratch.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 02:22:47 PM
Decided it wasn't very clear where I was pointing to:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 07, 2010, 02:23:54 PM
Reported this morning:

Joran is asking for mineral water
Joran is under permanent 24/7 watch
Joran has demonstrated perfect Castilian and therefore no delay for a translator is required
Joran is insisting on the consulate to appoint him a Dutch Attorney
Dutch Consulate has visited him in Peru as well as Chile
Anita has not surfaced yet but I hope the Shamans have some special voodoo dolls for when she surfaces

For Anita, they'll need to trade in the tomatoes for watermelons.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 07, 2010, 02:27:58 PM
Reported this morning:

Joran is asking for mineral water
Joran is under permanent 24/7 watch
Joran has demonstrated perfect Castilian and therefore no delay for a translator is required
Joran is insisting on the consulate to appoint him a Dutch Attorney
Dutch Consulate has visited him in Peru as well as Chile
Anita has not surfaced yet but I hope the Shamans have some special voodoo dolls for when she surfaces

For Anita, they'll need to trade in the tomatoes for watermelons.


LMAO!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 02:31:09 PM
Decided it wasn't very clear where I was pointing to:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt3.jpg)

Thanks Klaas, glad you saw it too!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 02:34:24 PM
Decided it wasn't very clear where I was pointing to:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt3.jpg)

Thanks Klaas, glad you saw it too!

To me the section right below the left clavical (as you look at the picture) the same side the card she holding....down toward midway of the E ...that spot looks odd to me, does it to anyone else?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 02:35:50 PM
Decided it wasn't very clear where I was pointing to:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt3.jpg)

Thanks Klaas, glad you saw it too!

To me the section right below the left clavical (as you look at the picture) the same side the card she holding....down toward midway of the E ...that spot looks odd to me, does it to anyone else?



Okay the area I'm talking about is just above and to the right of the top of the red circle on the left.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 02:37:52 PM
screen shot of her entering casino alone:

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/JORANSTEPHANYENTERINGCASINOALONE.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 02:43:30 PM
Dutch subtitles have been added with what the Police are asking and what Joran is replying.  At one point he tells them his is famous in Thailand.  He also tells them he wrote a book, that he plays poker very well, that he plays the flute,  that he wants to go to Bolivia.  The police say they find an ugly family photo and then ask him were he was at the time of the murder, he replies that is embarrasing..ummmm...I was masturbating..but why do you want to know?  then Joran asks masturbation is not illegal yet?  Then Joran says that they can do it differently, if you want to give me the number of my sister...

http://www.pezpaq.tv Last Sunday, the first images have emerged from the first trial of the alleged murderer Joran van der Sloot.
On the video you can see how the Dutchman calmly answered a few questions and how things are to be searched. We have for convenience only ff subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEecu6qqTgA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 02:43:32 PM
These are the most Gawd awful translations ever - worse than 'r00ba.

It's not anyone's fault here - but lawwwddy.

It's like - Stephany carries his bathsuit to which the floor. WTH?!? Come across?

I was thinking in the back of my mind - for years - that when this day came it would happen in a country that has their own alphabet and it would be all squigglies, blocks and triangle and we would really be screwed - this is almost that bad.

And this "reporting" - Taco was NOT his attorney in Aruba, he was in NEW YORK for the civil trial - that was dismissed for lack of venue - not that there wasn't evidence that Joran killed Natalee. Sheeesh - Can someone somewhere do something right? I don't ask for much...

+++

I see the server is up to it's ole shenanigans - Dugga, clean up in aisle 6, electronics, hardware and leftover cookies.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 02:46:33 PM
Joran & Victim Shown On Tape.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYClzGpezA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 02:49:32 PM
TABATIN UN ORDEN DI DETENCION CONTRA DI JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, PERO A LAGU’E BIAHA TOG

http://www.extra.an//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12061&Itemid=31


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 02:49:53 PM
Dutch subtitles have been added with what the Police are asking and what Joran is replying.  At one point he tells them his is famous in Thailand.  He also tells them he wrote a book, that he plays poker very well, that he plays the flute,  that he wants to go to Bolivia.  The police say they find an ugly family photo and then ask him were he was at the time of the murder, he replies that is embarrasing..ummmm...I was masturbating..but why do you want to know?  then Joran asks masturbation is not illegal yet?  Then Joran says that they can do it differently, if you want to give me the number of my sister...

http://www.pezpaq.tv Last Sunday, the first images have emerged from the first trial of the alleged murderer Joran van der Sloot.
On the video you can see how the Dutchman calmly answered a few questions and how things are to be searched. We have for convenience only ff subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEecu6qqTgA


Come oooon.... someone just made that up, those subtitles. LMAO!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 02:51:11 PM
Abogado Julio Rodriguez na Peru: Si wordo haya culpabel Joran van der Sloot lo tin cu sinta su condena na Peru

http://www.24ora.com/internacional-mainmenu-6/18429-abogado-julio-rodriguez-na-peru-castigo-impone-riba-joran-van-der-sloot-tin-cu-wordo-sinta-na-peru-mes.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 02:58:44 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 03:00:34 PM
I see over at RU there is a handful still attempting to accuse Beth of getting rid of Natalee. 

After 5 years and now with Stephany being murdered, if anyone attempts to place blame of Natalee's family or Stephany's family they will be immediately banned.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 03:01:42 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.

Thanks Jo-An


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 03:04:41 PM
Dutch subtitles have been added with what the Police are asking and what Joran is replying.  At one point he tells them his is famous in Thailand.  He also tells them he wrote a book, that he plays poker very well, that he plays the flute,  that he wants to go to Bolivia.  The police say they find an ugly family photo and then ask him were he was at the time of the murder, he replies that is embarrasing..ummmm...I was masturbating..but why do you want to know?  then Joran asks masturbation is not illegal yet?  Then Joran says that they can do it differently, if you want to give me the number of my sister...

http://www.pezpaq.tv Last Sunday, the first images have emerged from the first trial of the alleged murderer Joran van der Sloot.
On the video you can see how the Dutchman calmly answered a few questions and how things are to be searched. We have for convenience only ff subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEecu6qqTgA


Come oooon.... someone just made that up, those subtitles. LMAO!!!

The sub titles are hilarious. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 03:05:07 PM
Lawyers advised Joran
Two assisting counsel represented him in Office and Dirincri, but calls a lawyer Dutchman. His backpack was found a laptop that could be Stephany Flores. Police are investigating. Author: ANA BRICEÑO
CompartirEnviar.El Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, 22, feels increasingly cornered. So, now struggling to communicate with his mother and getting a lawyer to free him from Dutchman a tough sentence which could be many years in a prison in our country. The young man is guarded by four policemen in the cells of the Dirincri. The officials said that note was tense.

LAWYERS. The public defender advised Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid abroad in the Public Ministry. Perú.21 spoke with the lawyer, who narrated that the Van Der Sloot to ask about the charges against him there, he replied: "Yes, Stephany Flores's death."

"He said he wanted to communicate with her mother and needed a lawyer from the country and not trade. Yet he counseled and asked if he had a friend in Peru, and Uruguay Elton responded that Garcia "he said.

Meanwhile, during his statement to the police in Dirincri, which lasted until dawn yesterday, another public defender, Carla Odria, as advised in this process. "I can not declare in advance because the process still continues," he said in succinct when asked about the coach.

"OTHER EVIDENCE? Also, yesterday released a video where you can see the time police searched the belongings of the Dutchman. Among them was a laptop HP brand and various notes and coins in Chile, Bolivia and Peru.

The experts are investigating the origin of the machine, as the father of Stephany, Ricardo Flores, said that one day before the murder he gave his daughter a thousand dollars to buy the unit. Police carried out a confrontation with hotel employees TAC, Miraflores, who corroborated that enter the Dutchman saw Stephany, on Sunday 30 May.

Today you could have the integral result of the autopsy that was performed on the victim. In this way you can determine whether she was raped or not.

Meanwhile, Joseph Tacopina, a former Van Der Sloot attorney who successfully defended in the case of the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, questioned via telephone communication with the Panorama program, the Dutchman evidence implicating the crime in Lima .

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" He asked. He also expressed his surprise at the time that passed between the day of the murder and the discovery of the body.

http://peru21.pe/impresa/noticia/abogadas-asesoraron-joran/2010-06-07/276910

I'm sure they would have video of Joran leaving his room before he went to the casino and met Stephany.  It would show who entered his room.  Wait wait I know.  Joe Tacopina is going to say someone drilled a hole through the floor and patched it up before he left right.  What an idiot.  He is insulting the people of Peru's intelligence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 515angel on June 07, 2010, 03:05:46 PM
I see over at RU there is a handful still attempting to accuse Beth of getting rid of Natalee. 

After 5 years and now with Stephany being murdered, if anyone attempts to place blame of Natalee's family or Stephany's family they will be immediately banned.

And they should also be declared crazy!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:06:28 PM
Dutch subtitles have been added with what the Police are asking and what Joran is replying.  At one point he tells them his is famous in Thailand.  He also tells them he wrote a book, that he plays poker very well, that he plays the flute,  that he wants to go to Bolivia.  The police say they find an ugly family photo and then ask him were he was at the time of the murder, he replies that is embarrasing..ummmm...I was masturbating..but why do you want to know?  then Joran asks masturbation is not illegal yet?  Then Joran says that they can do it differently, if you want to give me the number of my sister...

http://www.pezpaq.tv Last Sunday, the first images have emerged from the first trial of the alleged murderer Joran van der Sloot.
On the video you can see how the Dutchman calmly answered a few questions and how things are to be searched. We have for convenience only ff subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEecu6qqTgA


He`s a serial whacker. Must be pretty bad at it, if he got blood on his shirt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 03:08:44 PM
Dutch subtitles have been added with what the Police are asking and what Joran is replying.  At one point he tells them his is famous in Thailand.  He also tells them he wrote a book, that he plays poker very well, that he plays the flute,  that he wants to go to Bolivia.  The police say they find an ugly family photo and then ask him were he was at the time of the murder, he replies that is embarrasing..ummmm...I was masturbating..but why do you want to know?  then Joran asks masturbation is not illegal yet?  Then Joran says that they can do it differently, if you want to give me the number of my sister...

http://www.pezpaq.tv Last Sunday, the first images have emerged from the first trial of the alleged murderer Joran van der Sloot.
On the video you can see how the Dutchman calmly answered a few questions and how things are to be searched. We have for convenience only ff subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEecu6qqTgA


He`s a serial whacker. Must be pretty bad at it, if he got blood on his shirt.

LMAO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: sandy leiva on June 07, 2010, 03:10:21 PM
Former attorney questioned Joran van der Sloot tests involving the murder of Stephany Dutchman Flores (with video)

Joseph Tacopina hinted that a third person would be responsible for murder. Also expressed its surprise that the body has been found in the room just three days after the crime

"How do you know that inside the room there was no third person waiting for them?" Asked the renowned lawyer Joseph Tacopina to question one of the strongest proofs that involve the citizen Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the murder of the young Stephany Flores occurred on Sunday 30 May.

Joseph Tacopina, who successfully defended Van der Sloot in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl five years ago, referred to the fact that the Dutchman admitted with Stephany Flores Tac Miraflores hotel early 30 May, but was only hours later, according to security video showed the accommodation.

Thus, the lawyer also defended the late King of Pop Michael Jackson hinted that a third person would be responsible for crime.

In a telephone conversation from New York with the TV program "Panorama", Joseph Tacopina also expressed surprise at the time that passed between the alleged day of the murder and the discovery of the body of Stephany.

More soon ....

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490841/ex-abogado-joran-cuestiona-pruebas-que-involucran-holandes-asesinato-stephany

Yes, and this third person sent Joran out for a cup of coffee and said, 'Get one for yourself while you are at it.'

<eye roll>


here we go again bring in the liar lackopenis who doesnt know what happened in peru but is starting the misinformation campaign again. Anything for joran the killer,oops according to lackopenis there was a third person who blugened Stephani just like Natalie.....not......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 03:13:59 PM
Netherlands authorities act preventively.

The alleged murderer of Stephany Flores, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, is guarded 24 hours a day by a police officer to prevent impairment of its life.

RPP Police sources informed that while there has been no incident of this nature, the surveillance is permanent while detained in the lockup of Criminal Investigation Department (Dirincri).

It emerged that Van der Sloot is eating normally and is the same menu as the police. The Dutchman has not made any request to their custodians but he has been concerned

http://www.periodismoenlinea.com/201006076886/Actualidad/Policia-vigila-a-Joran-van-der-Sloot-por-temor-a-suicidio.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: sleddogs on June 07, 2010, 03:15:01 PM
Serial Whanker?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whanker


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
I see over at RU there is a handful still attempting to accuse Beth of getting rid of Natalee.  

After 5 years and now with Stephany being murdered, if anyone attempts to place blame of Natalee's family or Stephany's family they will be immediately banned.

What is RU?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 03:19:37 PM
Video di Joran Su Traslado & Special Reports

http://www.boletinextra.com/index.php/international/74-international/1704-video-di-joran-su-traslado-a-special-reports


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 03:24:35 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 03:26:41 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.

No, you are not alone my dear Anna...I am competing too!  (what are we going to do about his wife?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 07, 2010, 03:26:55 PM
I see over at RU there is a handful still attempting to accuse Beth of getting rid of Natalee.  

After 5 years and now with Stephany being murdered, if anyone attempts to place blame of Natalee's family or Stephany's family they will be immediately banned.

What is RU?


Its a nasty site, where the Joran supporters and Beth haters and the Aruba lovers go to play mean.  I went there a few years ago and it was pretty bad.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 07, 2010, 03:27:25 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/happycouplenot.png)
To me it looks like he gave her something ,and it's just starting to take affect and she is slow motion,


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 07, 2010, 03:27:31 PM
(http://i50.tinypic.com/6gyk1z.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/sxn1bk.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/a41nkg.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 07, 2010, 03:28:47 PM
Forgot to add.....pictures of similar room Joran was in, NOT Joran's room


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 03:29:05 PM
Haha Anna, I'll see what I can do for you!

Here's an oldie for now

(http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/images/peterkoosh_gr.jpg)

(not so yummy, right?) ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 03:29:52 PM
(http://i50.tinypic.com/6gyk1z.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/sxn1bk.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/a41nkg.jpg)

there is no headboard in the rooms!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 03:31:38 PM
Girdle van Susteren is blaming the FBI.

klaas, can you ban her from Fox? do you have that power? please tell me you do.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 03:33:19 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 03:35:35 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.

No, you are not alone my dear Anna...I am competing too!  (what are we going to do about his wife?)

Charlie Rat, Martin Bakx and Guido, too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 03:37:19 PM
Jo-An, Not bad but have seen better.  I think he looks better older.  JMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 03:37:41 PM
OMG Greta needs to be banned pretty please.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 03:39:24 PM
Jo-An, Not bad but have seen better.  I think he looks better older.  JMO.

I think he looks terrible in this pic!
He's definitely better looking now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 03:42:22 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.

Is this the one?

(http://harryvanbommel.sp.nl/weblog/files/2008/11/peterrdevries.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: the big hammer on June 07, 2010, 03:43:23 PM
GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 03:43:33 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

there isn't a back she won't stab. I can't even watch her show. I would rather suffer pictures and phone calls all night about Lucy and John David than watch Girdle.

I guess people never go missing on the upper west-side.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 03:46:02 PM
GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 03:51:04 PM
Alcohol and sexual motive ruled out in Peru Van der Sloot case

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12388


Peruvian police investigators are currently working on the hypothesis that Joran van der Sloot killed Stephany Flores because he was trying to rob her and she put up resistance, report today local press.

“It is likely that he tried to force her to withdraw money from her bank account, or to make a bank transfer to him. Probably van der Sloot killed her because she refused to do so, thus he ran away only with the cash he found” said a police office who preferred to remain anonymous.

An autopsy determined that Stephany Flores did not have sexual relationships prior to her death, and also that the she had not drank an amount of alcohol enough to prevent her from resisting an attack.

Peru's Justice has assigned a public defense attorney for van der Sloot, Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, but van der Sloot will ask for a lawyer from his country; he will also have a translator, Mauricio Stains.

Meanwhile, the suspect is currently jailed at the investigations building of Peru's national police, sharing his cell with another suspect of homicide and under the permanent surveillance of four agents, because there are fears that he could either try to commit suicide, or be killed.

Surveillance was assigned because van der Sloot deliberately hit his head against a wall last Saturday.

However, he has had meals and slept normally while on his cell; he is having the same meals that police officers receive while on duty.

Representatives from the Netherlands embassy have visited him, but it is still unclear if they will actually provide a lawyer for van der Sloot or not.

Lawyers consulted by LivinginPeru said that if the case reaches the courts, the whole trial may take two years.

Van der Sloot could be jailed either at Miguel Castro Castro Prison (aka “Lurigancho) or at Piedras Gordas High Security Prison.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 03:52:31 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.

Thanks Jo-An

woooooooooohoooooooo we want photos too (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drooling/drooling-5.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: kippy on June 07, 2010, 03:52:31 PM
Well if the laptop belongs to Stephany, there is the robbery motive, if not motive at least another nail in his case.  I was so hoping it was his own laptop. 

If his is missing tho, why haven't we heard any updates from Chilie concerning the look for his belongings?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:52:43 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.victim.joran/index.html?hpt=T2

"My wife typed 'Joran van der Sloot' into Google and started screaming for me to see," Enrique Flores told CNN on Sunday. "I couldn't believe it. How could it be that guy?"

"All I have been doing is reading about Natalee Holloway and what her family has gone through," Flores said.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 03:56:48 PM
Alcohol and sexual motive ruled out in Peru Van der Sloot case

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12388


Peruvian police investigators are currently working on the hypothesis that Joran van der Sloot killed Stephany Flores because he was trying to rob her and she put up resistance, report today local press.

“It is likely that he tried to force her to withdraw money from her bank account, or to make a bank transfer to him. Probably van der Sloot killed her because she refused to do so, thus he ran away only with the cash he found” said a police office who preferred to remain anonymous.

An autopsy determined that Stephany Flores did not have sexual relationships prior to her death, and also that the she had not drank an amount of alcohol enough to prevent her from resisting an attack.

Peru's Justice has assigned a public defense attorney for van der Sloot, Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, but van der Sloot will ask for a lawyer from his country; he will also have a translator, Mauricio Stains.

Meanwhile, the suspect is currently jailed at the investigations building of Peru's national police, sharing his cell with another suspect of homicide and under the permanent surveillance of four agents, because there are fears that he could either try to commit suicide, or be killed.

Surveillance was assigned because van der Sloot deliberately hit his head against a wall last Saturday.

However, he has had meals and slept normally while on his cell; he is having the same meals that police officers receive while on duty.

Representatives from the Netherlands embassy have visited him, but it is still unclear if they will actually provide a lawyer for van der Sloot or not.

Lawyers consulted by LivinginPeru said that if the case reaches the courts, the whole trial may take two years.

Van der Sloot could be jailed either at Miguel Castro Castro Prison (aka “Lurigancho) or at Piedras Gordas High Security Prison.

Knowing who he is, I think that`s BS.

Considering the sentence for robbery with homicide...

I hope they blow a hole in the side of him a mile wide.

FINISH HIM.

His days are done.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 04:04:27 PM
Alcohol and sexual motive ruled out in Peru Van der Sloot case

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12388


Peruvian police investigators are currently working on the hypothesis that Joran van der Sloot killed Stephany Flores because he was trying to rob her and she put up resistance, report today local press.

“It is likely that he tried to force her to withdraw money from her bank account, or to make a bank transfer to him. Probably van der Sloot killed her because she refused to do so, thus he ran away only with the cash he found” said a police office who preferred to remain anonymous.

An autopsy determined that Stephany Flores did not have sexual relationships prior to her death, and also that the she had not drank an amount of alcohol enough to prevent her from resisting an attack.

Peru's Justice has assigned a public defense attorney for van der Sloot, Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, but van der Sloot will ask for a lawyer from his country; he will also have a translator, Mauricio Stains.

Meanwhile, the suspect is currently jailed at the investigations building of Peru's national police, sharing his cell with another suspect of homicide and under the permanent surveillance of four agents, because there are fears that he could either try to commit suicide, or be killed.

Surveillance was assigned because van der Sloot deliberately hit his head against a wall last Saturday.

However, he has had meals and slept normally while on his cell; he is having the same meals that police officers receive while on duty.

Representatives from the Netherlands embassy have visited him, but it is still unclear if they will actually provide a lawyer for van der Sloot or not.

Lawyers consulted by LivinginPeru said that if the case reaches the courts, the whole trial may take two years.

Van der Sloot could be jailed either at Miguel Castro Castro Prison (aka “Lurigancho) or at Piedras Gordas High Security Prison.

Knowing who he is, I think that`s BS.

Considering the sentence for robbery with homicide...

I hope they blow a hole in the side of him a mile wide.

FINISH HIM.

His days are done.

Maybe they did not have sex.  BUT she had on underwear, no slacks.  So, obviously something happened.  I say he tried and she resisted.  That...plus 50 billion other reasons going around in his sick head...instant rage.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 04:10:49 PM
This is an article posted on Radio Netherlands Worldwide.

Notice their biased slant:

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-peru-makes-evidence-public


Joran van der Sloot - Peru makes evidence public
Published on : 7 June 2010 - 5:33pm | By Sebastiaan Gottlieb (Photo: ANP)



The media in Peru has already decided that Dutchman Joran van der Sloot is guilty of murdering 21-year-old Stephany Flores. After he was handed over to Peruvian police officials, Joran van der Sloot was paraded before the press three times. Video footage of his first hearing can also be found on the internet. The Dutch foreign ministry is considering its reaction.
 
Peruvian Interior Minister Octavio Salazar has guaranteed that Joran van der Sloot will be given a fair trial. However, meanwhile all kinds of evidence against the Dutchman has been made public.
 
The Peruvian police say initial forensic investigations clearly indicate Joran van der Sloot's involvement int the murder. Police say the victim was beaten to death with a tennis racket. There is video footage showing the suspect and the young woman arriving at his hotelin the Peruvian capital, Lima.

Natalee Holloway
Joran van der Sloot is already a well-known figure in the United States, the Netherlands and in Aruba, for he has been the main suspect for several years in the case of the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba in 2005.

It is still not known what actually happened to Ms Holloway, and Joran van der Sloot has not been formally charged in connection with her disappearance.
 
No protest
The Dutch embassy in Peru, contrary to earlier reports, has not protested against the release of incriminating evidence. The foreign ministry is still considering whether it will give an official reaction to how the case is being handled. A spokesperson for the ministry told Radio Netherlands Worldwide: "I have asked at the ministry how we should deal with this."
 
Generally, the Netherlands never interferes with legal processes in other countries, but there may well be reason to protest in this case. After all, the suspect claims he's innocent of murdering Stephany Flores.
 
His American lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, has come to his assistance. He asked on Peruvian television how it was possible that the body of Ms Flores could have been in Joran van der Sloot's hotel room for three days without anyone noticing.
 
Extradition
Peru and the Netherlands do not have a mutual treaty for the return of nationals to serve their sentences in their home nation. Although negotiations for the transfer of prisoners have been taking place, it is not clear when agreement might be reached.
 
Even if such a treaty is agreed after his possible conviction, Joran van der Sloot will be able to apply to be transferred back to the Netherlands on condition that the two countries have no objections and the convicted person also agrees. It is too early to say whether Peru would cooperate with a transfer.
 
Robbery
It looks as if robbery was the motive of the murder. Ms Flores' father says jewellery was missing. An amount of 1,000 dollars. which he had given her to buy a laptop, was not found on the victim or in the hotel room.
 
Joran van der Sloot is being held in a police cell in Lima. His custody has been extended for a further seven days. A cell has been reserved for him at the infamous high security Castro Castro prison, which has some 4,000 inmates.

In Lima, stories are circulating about how inmates deal with rapists and murderers of children and women within the prison walls. If Joran van der Sloot is found guilty of murder with robbery, he could facing a 25-year sentence. 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 04:10:57 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 04:11:00 PM
hi monkeys, the picture of the bed has a headboard but it is attached to the wall ad shoxn on the pictutr


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 07, 2010, 04:11:38 PM
Wow, can't believe you Monkeys are still all hard at work!  Haven't been here but once or twice in the last few years...but the news is so sad.  Joran's definitely a gambling addict - and that's an addiction that wreaks havoc everywhere.  I hope he goes down via DNA evidence.  Tacopina is so repulsive, it's not even funny.  His theory falls flat with Joran being found with blood-stained clothing...if he was an innocent victim of a 3rd party, why not report it?  I didn't even need to go to law school to come up with that!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 04:12:05 PM
Knowing who he is, I think that`s BS.

Considering the sentence for robbery with homicide...

I hope they blow a hole in the side of him a mile wide.

FINISH HIM.

His days are done.

in my humble opinion, Joran is just a criminal - and he goes with whatever crime is available.

a little robbery, some sexual assault, and a homicide here and there.

and that's why he needed an apartment full of new furniture - see, when he operates he leaves a huge crime scene behind.

he leaves video, text messages, cell calls, blood evidence, triangulation records - he's no mastermind. Just impulsive.

he goes with whatever HE thinks he can get away with.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 04:12:06 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.

Is this the one?

(http://harryvanbommel.sp.nl/weblog/files/2008/11/peterrdevries.jpg)

Oh mercy, we will have to get the smelling salts out for Anna when she see this!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 07, 2010, 04:13:22 PM
What is the story re: J's extortion of money from the Holloways?  Was he that stupid to think they wouldn't trying to be setting him up?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 04:13:24 PM
GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.

oh oh...I am running to hide my pennyloafers right now!!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 04:14:37 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100607/ap_on_re_eu/eu_celebrity_suspect

Dutch murder suspect shows different faces on TV

  By ARTHUR MAX, Associated Press Writer Arthur Max, Associated Press Writer   – 21 mins ago

AMSTERDAM – Joran van der Sloot can be charming, angry, deceitful, tearful. The young Dutchman has been all that and more, playing out his troubled drama on TV over the five years since he came under suspicion in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

By his own admission, half of what he says is a lie.

Twice arrested and released for lack of evidence in the Holloway case, Van der Sloot was taken into custody again last week in connection with the slaying in Peru of Stephany Flores, a 21-year-old college student police say he met while playing poker at a Lima casino. Her May 30 killing came five years to the day after Holloway disappeared.

Towering over the Peruvian officers flanking him, the 6-foot-3-inch Dutchman appeared sullen and moist-eyed this weekend when he was paraded before journalists in handcuffs and a bulletproof vest after he was caught and extradited from Chile. Chilean police said Van der Sloot told investigators he was innocent in the case.

He was much more subdued than during his earlier appearances on American and Dutch TV, where he has become something of a minor celebrity — feeding public curiosity by spinning contradictory stories about Holloway's final hours and sometimes displaying flashes of a volatile temper.

Once, at the end of a relaxed interview with Dutch crime reporter Peter de Vries, Van der Sloot threw a glass of wine in the reporter's eyes.

Aad Schalke, a Dutch private investigator who administered a polygraph to Van der Sloot for a TV show about the Holloway case aired last year, said he was not surprised the 22-year-old was in trouble again.

"The moment he's not in control any more, he can be really dangerous," the detective told The Associated Press on Monday.

Van der Sloot is the son of a respected lawyer in Aruba who died in February. He was 17 when Holloway disappeared in 2005 and he spent three months in detention, then returned to the Netherlands to study. Two years later, he was arrested again and sent back to Aruba for further questioning.

It's unclear how he supported himself when he wasn't in jail. He is an avid gambler, and reportedly spent much of the last two years in Thailand, where De Vries claimed in 2008 Van der Sloot was recruiting Thai women for the sex trade in the Netherlands.

Just days after the slaying in Peru, Van der Sloot was charged in the United States with trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body and describing how she died. U.S. prosecutors say $15,000 was transferred to a Dutch bank account in his name.

Van der Sloot has told conflicting stories of his involvement with the Alabama teen. He and two Surinamese brothers, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, were the last to see the 18-year-old honors student, who was on a school trip to Aruba to celebrate her high school graduation.

He initially told island police he took Holloway to her hotel, then later said he left her alive and well on the beach. He apologized for lying earlier.

At other times he claimed Holloway collapsed and died on the beach, and he dumped the body in the ocean. On another occasion he said her body was taken to a marsh.

In a lengthy 2006 interview with Greta Van Susteren on Fox News, Van der Sloot described drinking shots of rum with Holloway, whom he said he met while playing poker at an Aruba casino, then taking her to a beach and leaving her there around 3:30 a.m.

In De Vries' 2008 Dutch television documentary, Van der Sloot said during a secretly recorded conversation that Holloway was drunk and slumped to the sand as they were kissing.

"Suddenly she started shaking and then she didn't say anything," Van der Sloot said in Dutch, adding that he did not kill her. "I would never murder a girl."

The interview prompted authorities in Aruba to reopen the case, but Van der Sloot later said he made up the whole story and he was not charged.

"I have a busy imagination and it was one big lie. ... Nothing's true," he told interviewer Jaap Amesz in a show broadcast on Dutch TV last year.

He told Amesz yet one more story. Holloway was dancing on a balcony when she accidentally fell over the railing, he said, his eyes filling with tears.

Amesz, who had arranged for the polygraph test, asked Van der Sloot if half of everything he said was a lie.

"Oh, more than half," he replied.

Van der Sloot's lie detector test lent support to that admission.

Annette Heldens, the investigator who questioned Van der Sloot, said he continuously squirmed in his chair to throw off the polygraph machine.

"He tried to manipulate the results," she said. Nonetheless, she said the test showed he lied when he repeatedly answered "no," to questions about whether he was involved in Holloway's disappearance or death.

Polygraph tests are inadmissible as evidence in the Netherlands, and Schalke said police did not follow up after the results were broadcast on TV.

After Van der Sloot was shown the test results, Amesz asked him on camera what he thought the consequences would be.

Rather than answer, he grabbed a glass of water from the table, spun out of his chair and smashed it in fury against a wall.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 04:18:29 PM
Knowing who he is, I think that`s BS.

Considering the sentence for robbery with homicide...

I hope they blow a hole in the side of him a mile wide.

FINISH HIM.

His days are done.

in my humble opinion, Joran is just a criminal - and he goes with whatever crime is available.

a little robbery, some sexual assault, and a homicide here and there.

and that's why he needed an apartment full of new furniture - see, when he operates he leaves a huge crime scene behind.

he leaves video, text messages, cell calls, blood evidence, triangulation records - he's no mastermind. Just impulsive.

he goes with whatever HE thinks he can get away with.

That`s where it happened. Yep!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 04:22:57 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 04:23:06 PM
Reported this morning:

Joran is asking for mineral water
Joran is under permanent 24/7 watch
Joran has demonstrated perfect Castilian and therefore no delay for a translator is required
Joran is insisting on the consulate to appoint him a Dutch Attorney
Dutch Consulate has visited him in Peru as well as Chile
Anita has not surfaced yet but I hope the Shamans have some special voodoo dolls for when she surfaces

For Anita, they'll need to trade in the tomatoes for watermelons.
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs531.ash1/31162_1278805341837_1581124725_595910_2138169_s.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 04:27:15 PM
What is the story re: J's extortion of money from the Holloways?  Was he that stupid to think they wouldn't trying to be setting him up?

It appears he was either that stupid or that desperate for money


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 04:27:18 PM
Alcohol and sexual motive ruled out in Peru Van der Sloot case

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12388


Peruvian police investigators are currently working on the hypothesis that Joran van der Sloot killed Stephany Flores because he was trying to rob her and she put up resistance, report today local press.

“It is likely that he tried to force her to withdraw money from her bank account, or to make a bank transfer to him. Probably van der Sloot killed her because she refused to do so, thus he ran away only with the cash he found” said a police office who preferred to remain anonymous.

An autopsy determined that Stephany Flores did not have sexual relationships prior to her death, and also that the she had not drank an amount of alcohol enough to prevent her from resisting an attack.

Peru's Justice has assigned a public defense attorney for van der Sloot, Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, but van der Sloot will ask for a lawyer from his country; he will also have a translator, Mauricio Stains.

Meanwhile, the suspect is currently jailed at the investigations building of Peru's national police, sharing his cell with another suspect of homicide and under the permanent surveillance of four agents, because there are fears that he could either try to commit suicide, or be killed.

Surveillance was assigned because van der Sloot deliberately hit his head against a wall last Saturday.

However, he has had meals and slept normally while on his cell; he is having the same meals that police officers receive while on duty.

Representatives from the Netherlands embassy have visited him, but it is still unclear if they will actually provide a lawyer for van der Sloot or not.

Lawyers consulted by LivinginPeru said that if the case reaches the courts, the whole trial may take two years.

Van der Sloot could be jailed either at Miguel Castro Castro Prison (aka “Lurigancho) or at Piedras Gordas High Security Prison.

I have no doubt that Joran will be provided with a high profile Dutch attorney courtesy of the Netherlands.

When all is said and done ... I have no doubt that Joran will be afforded the legal right to serve his sentence in a prison/mental hospital located in the Netherlands.  The Dutch/Aruban "powers that be" have no choice but continue to protect Joran or ... eliminate him.

This young man along with the Kalpoes know too much in regards to those who participated in the Auban/Dutch cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing for the past five years in the Natalee Holloway's case.  The far reaching implications of the truth being revealed is not an option.
 
The only bright light is that something akin to Natalee Holloway's family ... Stephany's family will not be silenced.  "Corruption in Paradise" will forever haunt Aruba.

In My Opinion.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 04:28:58 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 04:34:41 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 04:34:58 PM
What is the story re: J's extortion of money from the Holloways?  Was he that stupid to think they wouldn't trying to be setting him up?

Obviously ... after five years ... Joran van der Sloot still does not comprehended the emotional strength of Beth Holloway.  Rather than embrace the possibility of that she could be afforded the opportunity to bring her precious daughter home to rest on American soil ... Beth is able to grasp the entire picture and ... act accordingly.

Out of desperation/hope ... I do not know if I could have been as strong as Beth in the same situation.

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 04:38:58 PM
Janet, I agree with your previous post. Will Peru bow to the pressure? and it will come from every angle the Dutch can muster.

It will be a battle of wills. Will Peru act as a sovereign nation and follow their OWN laws? or cave into Dutch pressure?

I'm not very hopeful at this point. I hope I am wrong.

In my heart, the 'he's mentally deranged' - 'mental hospital' is where it's at for the Dutch. This is THE angle.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 04:42:26 PM
http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-serial-killer.html

Monday, June 7, 2010
Joran van der Sloot: A Serial Killer?

by Pat Brown


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: lefty1062 on June 07, 2010, 04:43:25 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted....part of the tape shows Stephany walking into the casino, and then shows Joran and Stephany walking out of the casino.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/37550183#37550183



The brief glimpse of him with his shirt off getting his medical exam is in this film.  It appears to show scrmarks on both sides of his chest, near his shoulders. Maybe Klaas can do a screen capture, I would if I could!

I am so far behind, but couldn't resis commenting on this pic. He looks like he is having another "oops...I crapped my pants" moment.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 04:43:42 PM
Alcohol and sexual motive ruled out in Peru Van der Sloot case

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12388


Peruvian police investigators are currently working on the hypothesis that Joran van der Sloot killed Stephany Flores because he was trying to rob her and she put up resistance, report today local press.

“It is likely that he tried to force her to withdraw money from her bank account, or to make a bank transfer to him. Probably van der Sloot killed her because she refused to do so, thus he ran away only with the cash he found” said a police office who preferred to remain anonymous.

An autopsy determined that Stephany Flores did not have sexual relationships prior to her death, and also that the she had not drank an amount of alcohol enough to prevent her from resisting an attack.

Peru's Justice has assigned a public defense attorney for van der Sloot, Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, but van der Sloot will ask for a lawyer from his country; he will also have a translator, Mauricio Stains.

Meanwhile, the suspect is currently jailed at the investigations building of Peru's national police, sharing his cell with another suspect of homicide and under the permanent surveillance of four agents, because there are fears that he could either try to commit suicide, or be killed.

Surveillance was assigned because van der Sloot deliberately hit his head against a wall last Saturday.

However, he has had meals and slept normally while on his cell; he is having the same meals that police officers receive while on duty.

Representatives from the Netherlands embassy have visited him, but it is still unclear if they will actually provide a lawyer for van der Sloot or not.

Lawyers consulted by LivinginPeru said that if the case reaches the courts, the whole trial may take two years.

Van der Sloot could be jailed either at Miguel Castro Castro Prison (aka “Lurigancho) or at Piedras Gordas High Security Prison.

I have no doubt that Joran will be provided with a high profile Dutch attorney courtesy of the Netherlands.

When all is said and done ... I have no doubt that Joran will be afforded the legal right to serve his sentence in a prison/mental hospital located in the Netherlands.  The Dutch/Aruban "powers that be" have no choice but continue to protect Joran or ... eliminate him.

This young man along with the Kalpoes know too much in regards to those who participated in the Auban/Dutch cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing for the past five years in the Natalee Holloway's case.  The far reaching implications of the truth being revealed is not an option.
 
The only bright light is that something akin to Natalee Holloway's family ... Stephany's family will not be silenced.  "Corruption in Paradise" will forever haunt Aruba.

In My Opinion.

Janet

Janet, I agree..... told y'all I had a bad feeling about all this.....and  I still have it....and every time conflicting information comes out it reinforces it.  Why hasn't the video of joran leaving and returning to the room with the coffee been released?

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 04:44:00 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind


I totally agree, Sunny.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 04:47:49 PM
Elton is going to be accused before this is over.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 04:48:32 PM
One thing I have learned from watching these diabolical cretins over there years - whatever the situation, make it happen.

He's mentally deranged - out come all of Joran psych records dating back to when he was a lil boy.

He's a sporter - out come the tennis tournaments.

He's a terrific student - out comes people sayin' he's a wonderful student and way above average.

He's no rapist - out comes the mother to say how loving he is with all his girlfriends.

He has dreams and wants to go to college - away he goes to Holland to fulfill his dreams.

He doesn't gamble, doesn't smoke, doesn't do drugs ....

nevermind none of that was even remotely true. None.

no matter what the story, no matter what the situation - there is always something to say otherwise, who cares if anyone believes it or if there is any evidence to support it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 04:49:09 PM
Every crime leaves behind evidence.

In 2005, Joran had the benefit of home-town cooking. His well-connected father was instrumental in making the evidence disappear, with help from his associates.  Unfortunately, law enforcement became more concerned with hiding the crime and was driven by protecting their tourism dollars. The game was rigged as justice could never be attained for a poor family, who only sought a proper burial for their deceased daughter.

Fast forward the clock 5 years to the year 2010. A crime has been committed on foreign soil. Same as before, evidence exists. Unlike 2005, there will be no one there to make it disappear. No doubt about it, the case files will contain surveillance footage from the casino, exiting the casino, entering the hotel with SF, exiting the hote; without SF a few hours later, a coroner's report of an estimated time of death, toxicology reports, bloody shoe prints, victim blood on Joran, murder weapon, DNA evidence, laptop, and much more.

Too bad for Joran, there will be no bottomless evidence drawer, no 10 day head start, no false arrests, no Jan Van derStraaten, no disinformation campaign, no witness intimidation, no judicial friends and favors, no new concrete around the pool, no new furniture, no CAPSLOCKWIZARD, no cell phone in jail, nor a lot of other unmentioned perks.

A foreign (Dutch/Aruban) citizen enters Peru and commits a heinous crime against the daughter of a well-known Peruvian citizen. They will ensure a fair trial for Joran, according to acceptable standards. He will pay for this crime. Law enforcement is taking it serious. Joran VanderSloot is no one special to them, just a foreigner who has committed a crime against one of its own.

Behind the scenes, due to his notoriety, his (soon-to-be) new roomates at jail facility probably have some surprises in store for him. Might even include a new game or two (Drop the Soap, etc). He is going to pay a dear price for his latest actions.

Just my humble opinions...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wingnut on June 07, 2010, 04:50:01 PM
By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml


I wonder what the practical Spanish phrase is for "my butt hurts?"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 04:52:46 PM
GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.

Agree, Rob.  Greta has a couple of sons.  I think she saved their clothing from when they were six years old and that is now her wardrobe.  Shoes included.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 04:52:57 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.

You're not alone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 04:54:50 PM
Girdle van Susteren is blaming the FBI.

klaas, can you ban her from Fox? do you have that power? please tell me you do.

Well, you know there is blame for their neglect on the extortion thingie, and yes the money that Beth gave Joran, when the FBI should have nabbed him, allowed him to move about.... Who is directing the FBI?  I think it falls under the DoJ, probably NOI.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Shan1628 on June 07, 2010, 04:54:54 PM
Maybe I'm confused (nothing new) but wasn't there another man with Joran at the casino?  What happened to him??
Elton Garcia (35) since May was staying at the hotel where it was found the body of Stephany Flores
Accompanied Albanian citizen Joran van der Sloot in poker competition

The Albanian citizen Elton Garcia (35) shared gaming table with the young Stephany Flores and his alleged murderer, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot at a poker international competition took place in our capital.

García, Uruguayan citizen, was staying since May in the same hotel where Van der Sloot and the girl was found Stephany. The police summoned as witnesses in Dirincri under investigation to clarify the murder occurred on Sunday.

According to his statement, Garcia knew nothing of the Netherlands since last weekend and decided to go in their search late Tuesday 1 June. That night I searched the Atlantic City hotel and then went to the hotel Tac where an employee told him in a room with Van der Sloot police had pulled the body of a young girl.

The police questioned him at the place and showed him a picture of the corpse which confirmed that it was Stephany. In addition, he said, recognized in the hotel security cameras to Joran entering the young Flores.

The alleged bid of $ 5,000 would have lost playing poker with Stephany, Eliot Garcia said nothing but said the daughter of Ricardo Flores won motorist S /. 2,000 in gambling in early May.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490019/ciudadano-albanes-acompano-joran-van-der-sloot-competencia-poker       justaMILF (http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490019/ciudadano-albanes-acompano-joran-van-der-sloot-competencia-poker justaMILF)





Thanks so much, MisGivings, definitely clarified a lot for me :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 04:54:58 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?

thanks cece.....a lot doesn't add up.......too much....we had dinner last night with a couple, the husband is a retired detective. He has been following the case and has a lot of questions and a lot of things that didn;t added up to him. It was interesting to hear him talk about what he would do.  He thinks perhaps a spurned lover of Stephany killed her in a jealous rage, after joran did leave her sleeping. I asked why hasn't the hotel clerk said someone else came.....he said yes, WHY?  OR a kidnapping gone wrong.....someone at the recognized Stephany....then joran leave her alone sleeping in the room.....someone from the hotel calls to tell whoever that she is there and alone.....a kidnapping gone bad??    From what he has read the clerk was scared chitless and would say whatever she was told to or she was that someone.  So joran left and said something about not disturbing his girl...per the clerk. Where is the video tape of joran leaving and returning with the coffee.   If he was running why didn't he take his passport? and all his money and credit cards?  Lots of stuff like that....it made for very interesting dinner conversation!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 04:55:52 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind

Mine either.

The enemy ... whose mission has been to prevent justice from prevailing for five years ... may have appeared to work together with the FBI in the sting involving extortion but ... when all was said and done extradiction to the United States where Joran may be inclined to reveal all was never an option as far as the Dutch/Aruban.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 04:56:22 PM
Joran van der Sloot - 6/7/10 HLN

http://www.youtube.com/v/jaPN9hTVUXA&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaPN9hTVUXA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 04:57:03 PM
I think everyone is getting a little too excited about these conflicting reports regarding this case.  Believe you me, this guy is going to DIE in a Peruvian Prison.  There is no way the Dutch or anyone else will be able to manipulate the system the way the Arubans have in the past.  And if what I hear is true about the bloody clothes they found in his bag, he's dead to rights with regards to his guilt...

Let's all take a deep breath and celebrate what's going on right now in Peru.  It's the beginning of the end for dear old Joran!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 04:57:56 PM
Joran van der Sloot has not formally requested a lawyer Dutchman
Representatives of the Consulate of the Netherlands visited the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores on Saturday Dirincri

The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot has not formally requested a lawyer of his country to their consulate, embassy sources in the Netherlands in Lima.

According to sources, who preferred anonymity, representatives of the consulate on Saturday visited Dutchman Joran van der Sloot to Dirincri headquarters, where he is being held, and found him in good health.

Spokesmen for the embassy said that the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores (21) made no request for legal assistance, as speculated in various media.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491130/joran-van-der-sloot-no-ha-pedido-oficialmente-abogado-holandes?utm_source=Ps&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 04:59:40 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?

thanks cece.....a lot doesn't add up.......too much....we had dinner last night with a couple, the husband is a retired detective. He has been following the case and has a lot of questions and a lot of things that didn;t added up to him. It was interesting to hear him talk about what he would do.  He thinks perhaps a spurned lover of Stephany killed her in a jealous rage, after joran did leave her sleeping. I asked why hasn't the hotel clerk said someone else came.....he said yes, WHY?  OR a kidnapping gone wrong.....someone at the recognized Stephany....then joran leave her alone sleeping in the room.....someone from the hotel calls to tell whoever that she is there and alone.....a kidnapping gone bad??    From what he has read the clerk was scared chitless and would say whatever she was told to or she was that someone.  So joran left and said something about not disturbing his girl...per the clerk. Where is the video tape of joran leaving and returning with the coffee.   If he was running why didn't he take his passport? and all his money and credit cards?  Lots of stuff like that....it made for very interesting dinner conversation!!!


But he took her car.  That tells me that he knew she was dead when he left.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 04:59:46 PM
By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml


I wonder what the practical Spanish phrase is for "my butt hurts?"
Mi butt duele


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:00:22 PM
Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: sleddogs on June 07, 2010, 05:01:50 PM
By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml


I wonder what the practical Spanish phrase is for "my butt hurts?"


mis daños de extremo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 05:03:17 PM
Wait, I'm confused.  Riddle me this, Batman...It's quite obvious that they have clear surviellance tapes of his entering and leaving the hotel room.  Am I correct there?  If that's the case, isn't it as simple as them both entering togetrher, and him leaving alone?  There is no other signs of anyone else entering the room.  Again, am I correct there?  If that's the case, how can it even be argued that he committed this act?  Again, if what I said is true, that's all one would need to convict...right?  Even Aruba couldn't f*** this one up...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 05:03:46 PM
Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 05:05:10 PM
GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.

Agree, Rob.  Greta has a couple of sons.  I think she saved their clothing from when they were six years old and that is now her wardrobe.  Shoes included.

Oh....I thought Greta didn't have any children...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 05:06:27 PM
This is an article posted on Radio Netherlands Worldwide.

Notice their biased slant:

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-peru-makes-evidence-public


Joran van der Sloot - Peru makes evidence public
Published on : 7 June 2010 - 5:33pm | By Sebastiaan Gottlieb (Photo: ANP)



The media in Peru has already decided that Dutchman Joran van der Sloot is guilty of murdering 21-year-old Stephany Flores. After he was handed over to Peruvian police officials, Joran van der Sloot was paraded before the press three times. Video footage of his first hearing can also be found on the internet. The Dutch foreign ministry is considering its reaction.
 
Peruvian Interior Minister Octavio Salazar has guaranteed that Joran van der Sloot will be given a fair trial. However, meanwhile all kinds of evidence against the Dutchman has been made public.
 
The Peruvian police say initial forensic investigations clearly indicate Joran van der Sloot's involvement int the murder. Police say the victim was beaten to death with a tennis racket. There is video footage showing the suspect and the young woman arriving at his hotelin the Peruvian capital, Lima.

Natalee Holloway
Joran van der Sloot is already a well-known figure in the United States, the Netherlands and in Aruba, for he has been the main suspect for several years in the case of the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba in 2005.

It is still not known what actually happened to Ms Holloway, and Joran van der Sloot has not been formally charged in connection with her disappearance.
 
No protest
The Dutch embassy in Peru, contrary to earlier reports, has not protested against the release of incriminating evidence. The foreign ministry is still considering whether it will give an official reaction to how the case is being handled. A spokesperson for the ministry told Radio Netherlands Worldwide: "I have asked at the ministry how we should deal with this."
 
Generally, the Netherlands never interferes with legal processes in other countries, but there may well be reason to protest in this case. After all, the suspect claims he's innocent of murdering Stephany Flores.
 
His American lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, has come to his assistance. He asked on Peruvian television how it was possible that the body of Ms Flores could have been in Joran van der Sloot's hotel room for three days without anyone noticing.
 
Extradition
Peru and the Netherlands do not have a mutual treaty for the return of nationals to serve their sentences in their home nation. Although negotiations for the transfer of prisoners have been taking place, it is not clear when agreement might be reached.
 
Even if such a treaty is agreed after his possible conviction, Joran van der Sloot will be able to apply to be transferred back to the Netherlands on condition that the two countries have no objections and the convicted person also agrees. It is too early to say whether Peru would cooperate with a transfer.
 
Robbery
It looks as if robbery was the motive of the murder. Ms Flores' father says jewellery was missing. An amount of 1,000 dollars. which he had given her to buy a laptop, was not found on the victim or in the hotel room.
 
Joran van der Sloot is being held in a police cell in Lima. His custody has been extended for a further seven days. A cell has been reserved for him at the infamous high security Castro Castro prison, which has some 4,000 inmates.

In Lima, stories are circulating about how inmates deal with rapists and murderers of children and women within the prison walls. If Joran van der Sloot is found guilty of murder with robbery, he could facing a 25-year sentence. 
 



Cece, This bias is what is going to cause me to pull out my hair yet.  Where's that icon when I need it!

The Dutch seem to think that because they post only initials of suspects (in reverse order according to CapslockLiar) that other countries share this idea that secrecy is afforded suspects.  They would be totally shocked at the openess of courts like in Florida where they have the Sunshine laws.  They do not advocate for an open court as most of the rest of the world does.

And yet we saw the most corrupt judicial system ever in their protectorate Aruba so we know their little secrecy doesn't work. 

They are in NO POSITION to say anything about the judicial practices of other countries especially in this instance because this girl would be alive if not for their utter failure when Joran killed Natalee.

This girl's blood is on the hands of Joran and Aruba with its Dutch judicial system so they need to really just shut up at this point.

And the extradition bit makes me want to vomit!  I hope this will never be allowed to happen as it will only be a sham sentence then with Joran likely given all manner of comfort and not even truly detained.

Keep him in Peru and make him serve every day that he lives of his sentence.  I don't think Peru is going to be as easy to bully as the Dutch are hoping.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 05:06:41 PM
Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?
...and that's another thing that confuses me.  In this country, once someone is arrested, they don't get to riffle through their own stuff.  They are entered into evidence, and one would get possession of it after they are either aquitted, or serve their time.  Maybe it's just me though...

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 05:07:56 PM
Natalee Holloway's uncle realized the folly of working with the Aruban  enemy and expecting a positive result in the quest for justice regarding his precious niece.  His posts were concerning the Persistence undertaking but ... the principle revealed is absolute.

Why does the FBI not get it!

In My Opinion

Janet

++++++

Federal charges in Alabama will await van der Sloot, if he is not charged in murder case in Peru
June 03, 2010, 8:22PM


Aruban authorities were helpful to the FBI in its extortion investigation, Vance said.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/federal_charges_in_alabama_wil.html


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »


Sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 05:11:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyi-CFZRoZ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyi-CFZRoZ0)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 07, 2010, 05:11:53 PM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Agreed - and what reputation they had has all been blown on Joran.

They need to learn how to pick and choose their battles better.

As far as that worthless over-sized diddling twat, Anita.

Every Aruban would be best off telling her to go pound sand in her shorts.

Carpe did you see this lol
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Anita/ISA_SpiritWeek_2010.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 07, 2010, 05:16:46 PM
Peter R de Vries on tv right now.
He was on vacation when he heard about the case.
He thinks it's remarkable that Joran was paraded around before the press, but that's just common practice in Peru. In the Netherlands the trial would be void if that happened.
The hotel footage is very incriminating if indeed that is the only footage.
There is no indication that someone else was in the room. Or Joran would have to make up a story of someone hiding under the bed or something.
Joran was in a lot of debt (gambling).
For the last two years he has been begging for money from family, friends. Always coming up with heartbreaking excuses why he needed money (lost his wallet, passport)
Peter has the MSN-log of Joran and a friend in the Netherlands.
Again desperately begging for money to buy food.
MSN log with freind in Holland.
In Peter's opinion this was not a sexual offence but it was all about taking Stephany's money.
She probably said no, and that's when he snapped.

Says Beth Holloway is overwhelmed about what's happening in Peru and the similarities between the two cases.
Joran will only reveal more details about Natalee for his own gain, in order to try and make a deal.
But only for opportunistic reasons.

Peter says he's a psychopath, a narcisist.

The host asks if he is still in contact with Joran's family.
He says no, I'm not very popular with them.

Our MP is on the talkshow as well and says that Joran will be treated like all Dutch people who are detained abroad.
No special treatment for him.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 07, 2010, 05:17:24 PM

I keep reading these theories that maybe Joran lost money to Stephany in the casino and she then went to his hotel room with him to collect that money.

I've been waiting for someone else to explain this, but no one else has so I just want to clarify that when you gamble in a casino, unless you are a known high roller, you use cash.  Period.

How you come by that cash is your business, whether you bring it with you, use an atm, take an advance on a credit card, whatever.  Joran would have had to use cash to purchase chips to play cards in the casino. 

No young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino would loan money to a stranger to play cards against him.  Let me repeat that.  Regardless of how well off and/or how sheltered, any young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino is savvy enough not to loan money to other gamblers.

This is just my opinion, and of course I have no idea why she went to his hotel room with him.  I just find it highly unlikely that she went to collect on money he'd lost to her while playing cards.  She would've already collected that money at the table in chips.

JMO and only MO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 07, 2010, 05:18:24 PM
Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?
...and that's another thing that confuses me.  In this country, once someone is arrested, they don't get to riffle through their own stuff.  They are entered into evidence, and one would get possession of it after they are either aquitted, or serve their time.  Maybe it's just me though...

Thoughts?

Hi Third (Waving)  Did you notice LE had Joran count out the money, and then they counted it out too?  And all of his personal effects were taken out and looked at and probably cataloged.  And all of that was on film.  I think this was all done so Joran couldn't go back and say he had a different amount of money or anything was missing. And it can be see what he had for use as evidence against him if possible.   I think LE is being careful and making an inventory and documenting everything.  JMHO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 05:18:44 PM
Peter R de Vries on tv right now.
He was on vacation when he heard about the case.
He thinks it's remarkable that Joran was paraded around before the press, but that's just common practice in Peru. In the Netherlands the trial would be void if that happened.
The hotel footage is very incriminating if indeed that is the only footage.
There is no indication that someone else was in the room. Or Joran would have to make up a story of someone hiding under the bed or something.
Joran was in a lot of debt (gambling).
For the last two years he has been begging for money from family, friends. Always coming up with heartbreaking excuses why he needed money (lost his wallet, passport)
Peter has the MSN-log of Joran and a friend in the Netherlands.
Again desperately begging for money to buy food.
MSN log with freind in Holland.
In Peter's opinion this was not a sexual offence but it was all about taking Stephany's money.
She probably said no, and that's when he snapped.

Says Beth Holloway is overwhelmed about what's happening in Peru and the similarities between the two cases.
Joran will only reveal more details about Natalee for his own gain, in order to try and make a deal.
But only for opportunistic reasons.

Peter says he's a psychopath, a narcisist.

The host asks if he is still in contact with Joran's family.
He says no, I'm not very popular with them.

Our MP is on the talkshow as well and says that Joran will be treated like all Dutch people who are detained abroad.
No special treatment for him.



Thank you!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:22:37 PM
I think everyone is getting a little too excited about these conflicting reports regarding this case.  Believe you me, this guy is going to DIE in a Peruvian Prison.  There is no way the Dutch or anyone else will be able to manipulate the system the way the Arubans have in the past.  And if what I hear is true about the bloody clothes they found in his bag, he's dead to rights with regards to his guilt...

Let's all take a deep breath and celebrate what's going on right now in Peru.  It's the beginning of the end for dear old Joran!!

I, for one am not getting excited, TS...but it does make me wonder what the truth is....I can't believe he had bloody clothes in his bag....he had ample time to get rid any any evidence like that....including the tennis racket. I am not as sure as your are about the Dutch not being able to manipulate the system. I just want the truth and so far I do not believe we are hearing the whole truth....so I will wait.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 05:22:51 PM
http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/pics-of-the-room-where-joran-is-being-held/
June 7, 2010 | 2:51 PM ET
Pics of the room in the hotel where Joran stayed - the room is similar to the one where murder

OTR's Kim Rittberg is in Peru...she just emailed me these pics or room 206 (Joran was in 309 but a worker told Kim this is same layout):

(http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/files/2010/06/16.jpg)

(http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/files/2010/06/23.jpg)

(http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/files/2010/06/31.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 05:25:22 PM
Wait, I'm confused.  Riddle me this, Batman...It's quite obvious that they have clear surviellance tapes of his entering and leaving the hotel room.  Am I correct there?  If that's the case, isn't it as simple as them both entering togetrher, and him leaving alone?  There is no other signs of anyone else entering the room.  Again, am I correct there?  If that's the case, how can it even be argued that he committed this act?  Again, if what I said is true, that's all one would need to convict...right?  Even Aruba couldn't f*** this one up...


Hi there, Third,

Yes, you are correct.  Anyone else entering that room would appeat on the digital tapes just as Joran and Stephany did.  Mark Furman said there are bars on the outside of the windows and so no one could possibly enter through a window either.

I don't know how anybody could say someone else was involved.  The coroner has set the time of death as during the time Joran was in the room based on decomp.

It's open and shut to me as well, don't understand the conflict there at all.

Maybe someone entering the room wouldn't show up on camera if they were a vampire, lol.  But I think we are getting pretty far out there.  16 camera bank of security vids and it's all tied down as to who came and went.

Two went in, one came out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:25:25 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?

thanks cece.....a lot doesn't add up.......too much....we had dinner last night with a couple, the husband is a retired detective. He has been following the case and has a lot of questions and a lot of things that didn;t added up to him. It was interesting to hear him talk about what he would do.  He thinks perhaps a spurned lover of Stephany killed her in a jealous rage, after joran did leave her sleeping. I asked why hasn't the hotel clerk said someone else came.....he said yes, WHY?  OR a kidnapping gone wrong.....someone at the recognized Stephany....then joran leave her alone sleeping in the room.....someone from the hotel calls to tell whoever that she is there and alone.....a kidnapping gone bad??    From what he has read the clerk was scared chitless and would say whatever she was told to or she was that someone.  So joran left and said something about not disturbing his girl...per the clerk. Where is the video tape of joran leaving and returning with the coffee.   If he was running why didn't he take his passport? and all his money and credit cards?  Lots of stuff like that....it made for very interesting dinner conversation!!!


But he took her car.  That tells me that he knew she was dead when he left.

Do we know he took her car??  Another one of those reports......the car was 50 blocks from the hotel.....someone took it.....I hope there is some surveillance tapes with whoever took it or dropped it off.  I'd also like to know what is in the area where it was found??  Was it near where joran got the taxi??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 05:28:30 PM
I think everyone is getting a little too excited about these conflicting reports regarding this case.  Believe you me, this guy is going to DIE in a Peruvian Prison.  There is no way the Dutch or anyone else will be able to manipulate the system the way the Arubans have in the past.  And if what I hear is true about the bloody clothes they found in his bag, he's dead to rights with regards to his guilt...

Let's all take a deep breath and celebrate what's going on right now in Peru.  It's the beginning of the end for dear old Joran!!

I, for one am not getting excited, TS...but it does make me wonder what the truth is....I can't believe he had bloody clothes in his bag....he had ample time to get rid any any evidence like that....including the tennis racket. I am not as sure as your are about the Dutch not being able to manipulate the system. I just want the truth and so far I do not believe we are hearing the whole truth....so I will wait.

Maybe this will shed some light....I read that they found blood on Joran's shirt using Luminol. 
Sounds to me like he washed the blood out of the shirt (or thought he did, probably dried it with a hair dryer) and took it with him.  We all know that even if there's the tiniest trace of blood (not even visible to the naked eye), that Luminol will show up. 

As always, Joran thinks he can outsmart anyone...heck...he probably never thought he would get picked up.

Luminol....



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 05:28:33 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 07, 2010, 05:28:42 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind

I completely agree Sunny.  Joran is not smart enough to know when to get out of Dodge..he had some in the government tell him take the money and run.  I think he has always thought he could do whatever and the powes that be in his life would take care of the details.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 05:30:39 PM
There has been no news conference from the Preuvians as yet so no offical statement on anything.  I don't expect one for this first week of interrogations.  They are trying to get the story straight and give Joran a chance to clear up any questions.  When and if he is unable to do so, they will make an official statement and not before.

What information we are getting is from various reporters, most of whom do not speak Spanish and are not very careful about their facts.

So as yet, there is no official storyline.  There won't be for several more days.  We just have to try to patch together what we can from the media coverage which may or may not be correct.

Of course, we all want a straight and simple answer but think we have a few more days yet to go for that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 07, 2010, 05:31:23 PM


Well, I AM letting my hopes get up again.  Even though they've been dashed so many times before over the last 5 years. I again choose to believe that this time, justice will prevail.

I don't accept the notion that the Peruvians give a flying flip what the Dutch think about their justice system.  I believe they care much, much more about their own countryman and his family, his daughter.

I do not believe that the corrupt Dutch nor the corrupt Arubans will be able to stand between Joran van der Death and his fate this time.

This really is the beginning of the end.  I believe.

::happy dancing monkey::



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 07, 2010, 05:31:37 PM
Its raining news

Security tightened around Joran

 LIMA -  The security around the 22-year-old murder suspect Joran van der Sloot has been tightened for fear of a suicide attempt by the Dutchman.  That the Peruvian authorities have informed against Upi.com website.
 
Van der Sloot is suspected of the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores, whose body was found last Wednesday in the TAC hotel in tourist district of Miraflores in Peru.  The Dutchman is also still a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway case.
 The Sunday escaped Van der Sloot was last Thursday after a manhunt by police Friday arrested in Chile and transferred to Peru.  He currently resides in custody at the police complex in Lima.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6880965/__Beveiliging_rond_Joran_aangescherpt__.html



He butted his head against the wall yesterday.  Maybe he needs a helmet to go with his vest, the little ones bike riders wear so we can still see his pretty blonde hair.
I hope they have a witness otherwise he will blame it on the Peru Police..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 05:32:08 PM
GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.

Agree, Rob.  Greta has a couple of sons.  I think she saved their clothing from when they were six years old and that is now her wardrobe.  Shoes included.

Oh....I thought Greta didn't have any children...



She doesn't have children.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 05:32:54 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?


I thought it was footboard as the mattress is in a sort of wooden box.  One of the corners of that box, head or foot, is where her head was hit.  Allegedly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 05:33:17 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?

I think there's been a lot of translation confusion.  I don't think they ever said she hit her head on a headboard for sure, I think someone was guessing she could have. 

It's my understanding they are saying the weapon was a racquet. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 05:34:46 PM


Well, I AM letting my hopes get up again.  Even though they've been dashed so many times before over the last 5 years. I again choose to believe that this time, justice will prevail.

I don't accept the notion that the Peruvians give a flying flip what the Dutch think about their justice system.  I believe they care much, much more about their own countryman and his family, his daughter.

I do not believe that the corrupt Dutch nor the corrupt Arubans will be able to stand between Joran van der Death and his fate this time.

This really is the beginning of the end.  I believe.

::happy dancing monkey::



I'm with you Lifesong.  I don't believe Joran will ever again see the light of day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 07, 2010, 05:34:54 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?

Hi Port Valerie, long time (waving)  I've seen some beds like this and sometimes the headboard is just tall enough to be part of the frame so small that the pillow just hides it.   Not a tall headboard like we've seen in the U.S.  Ikea has some like that for reference.  Also, it could be a translation thing and she hit her head on the corner of the bed post/frame and there isn't a "headboard".  I don't know.  Just some thoughts. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 05:35:09 PM
Peter R de Vries on tv right now.
He was on vacation when he heard about the case.
He thinks it's remarkable that Joran was paraded around before the press, but that's just common practice in Peru. In the Netherlands the trial would be void if that happened.
The hotel footage is very incriminating if indeed that is the only footage.
There is no indication that someone else was in the room. Or Joran would have to make up a story of someone hiding under the bed or something.
Joran was in a lot of debt (gambling).
For the last two years he has been begging for money from family, friends. Always coming up with heartbreaking excuses why he needed money (lost his wallet, passport)
Peter has the MSN-log of Joran and a friend in the Netherlands.
Again desperately begging for money to buy food.
MSN log with freind in Holland.
In Peter's opinion this was not a sexual offence but it was all about taking Stephany's money.
She probably said no, and that's when he snapped.

Says Beth Holloway is overwhelmed about what's happening in Peru and the similarities between the two cases.
Joran will only reveal more details about Natalee for his own gain, in order to try and make a deal.
But only for opportunistic reasons.

Peter says he's a psychopath, a narcisist.

The host asks if he is still in contact with Joran's family.
He says no, I'm not very popular with them.

Our MP is on the talkshow as well and says that Joran will be treated like all Dutch people who are detained abroad.
No special treatment for him.



Thanks so much Jo-An :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 07, 2010, 05:35:54 PM
Just a few things:

1 JVDS can require a dutch lawyer all he likes but it will do nothing for him since a dutch lawyer is not allowed to practice in peru
his only role could be that of an assistant to the peruvian lawyer.

2 Extradition of dutch prisoners in foreign country's only takes place after the prisoner has been convicted and is actually doing time abroad. (in JVDS's case this could take up to two years)
This extradition is not guaranteed even if the country's have a treaty. First of all the criteria mentioned in the treaty have to be met and secondly there has to be a request
for extradition from either the country the prisoner is held in or the country of origin. If the netherlands make a request for extradition this request is not automatically honored. The country the prisoner is in has to agree.

I read an interview with a dutch law professor who said: Even if we would have a WOTS (extradition) treaty with Peru (which the dutch do not) why would we try to get JVDS back to the netherlands when there are
over 1200 other dutch prisoners stuck in jails all over the world. Why him and not them?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 05:38:45 PM
By google translator

Judicial inquiry into Joran can take years

THE HAGUE - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a booklet 'Arrested in Peru' off. Below follows a number of facts, which are expected to apply to the situation of Joran van der Sloot.The brochure shows inter alia that the judicial inquiry into van der Sloot may take up to 36 months.

- Release on bail is virtually impossible.  Foreigners are rarely released on bail, because they might flee.

 - Lawsuits are public.  Three judges are considering a case.  All three pieces of a sentence.  Conviction by two of the three is sufficient for a conviction and sentencing.  Both the accused and the prosecutor may appeal against a higher sentence.

 - The president of Peru can pardon.  Requests for clemency may after serving one third of the sentence.  Pardon is granted only in special circumstances, such as serious illness.

 - Prison staff speaks only Spanish.

 - A Dutch prisoner will receive 30 euros per month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 - Medical care in prisons is limited to the minimum, the quality is generally poor.  Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious diseases are common.

 - A foreign prisoner has no right to (pilot) leave.
 - Prisons are overcrowded in Lima, making a lot of extra stress and difficult situations.

- It is not possible if to sit out your sentence  in a Dutch prison if your convicted in Peru.  

 - The brochure provides a glossary of some practical Spanish phrases.  Some examples from this chapter: 'Tengo problemas con mi companero the celda.''(I'm having problems with my cellmate.), Cumplir su condena.''(Serving his sentence.), Grado de la pena.''(Punitive) .


http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488673/2010/06/07/Gerechtelijk-onderzoek-naar-Joran-kan-jaren-duren.dhtml

Unless of course you are Joran van der Sloot.  Prior to his involvement in the happenings encompassing the disappearance of Natalee Holloway ... Joran was given a free reign.  He learned that legal boundaries of expectation did not apply to him.

Somehow I know in my heart that Joran will be allowed to serve time for the murder of Stephany in a prison/mental institution in the Netherlands.  It is there that Dutch/Aruban "powers that be" will have the ability to prevent him from talking ... prevent him from revealing all in regards to those who participated in the cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing in the past five years for Natalee Holloway.

Janet

++++++


Rita Cosby Live & Direct - April 4, 2006

RITA COSBY, HOST:  John, first of all, is there a possibility that Paulus might have been talking to Natalee the night that she disappeared?

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process. 

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Joran van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - June 9, 2005

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=160.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 05:41:16 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294

Joran Van der Sloot: More Conflicting Reports
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Mon Jun 07, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM EST



I'm still following the confusing reports from Peru on Joran Van der Sloot. My Spanish is getting better by the day because the Google and other online translators are pretty awful, and I've found that by reading the Spanish, I get a more accurate sense, even accounting for the words I don't know. Also, their pronouns are often wrong and in the wrong place making it hard to figure out who they are talking about. It's clearer to me reading the Spanish.

That said, while I can understand most of the written Spanish, I'm not able to translate it into English, so especially when pressed for time (like now) I may move to summaries, with links to the Spanish. From what I gather today: [More..]

La Repbulica (Google Translation here): The police now think robbery was the motive, they are checking her bank accounts for transfers (although other articles speculate it was her refusal to do a transfer that caused her murder.)

They are in possession of and checking both their cell phones as to numbers called to and from the phones. They may take Joran back to the hotel to retrace his steps and they continue to interview the hotel employees. It's also reported Stephany's wallet and credit cards were found with her body. (If her credit cards were there, doesn't that refute a robbery motive?) There are still conflicting reports on whether her jewelry was found, if she wore any.

Reports remain confusing as to poker player Elton Garcia. I'd say his story doesn't add up but there are so many inconsistencies, it may just be his statements are being incorrectly reported. E.g., if they weren't friends, why did they make plans 3 days in advance to meet at a certain restaurant for dinner? Why was he so concerned about Joran not showing that he feared he and Stephany had been kidnapped, and why was he so worried he asked the casino manager to call the hotel or check the casino videos? If he was staying at the same hotel as Joran, why didn't he ask himself? And how did he already know Stephany was missing?

Another curios note: Joran's number was stored in his phone. (One report says he told police he did that unintentionally when he received a call from Joran, who got his number from another poker player.)

Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together, with Stephanie driving them to the hotel -- to those saying Elton just saw Stephany and Joran playing at an open table.

As mentioned, it's been reported by multiple publications Elton was staying at the same hotel as Joran. His story makes more sense if he wasn't staying at the same hotel. Maybe those reports are wrong. And if not, what time did he get back to the hotel that morning?

Some reports have Elton saying he played poker with Stephany four times in May. Some say he played with Stephany and Joran. Other reports have him saying he never met Joran, just knew him by sight. (But they were meeting for dinner?)

He refused to tell police Stephany had won $5,000. the night she disappeared, only that she had won $2,000. from him earlier in the month.

It sounds to me like Stephany knew both Elton and Joran and they had played together before and played together that night. But again, it's hard to tell from the conflicting reports.

The bigger question, given the speculation of robbery as a motive, is did Joran lose, and ask Stephany to drive him back to his hotel so he could get her the money? Or Did Stephany lose and Joran asked her to make a bank transfer to pay him, using a computer back at his room? And doesn't the casino have videotapes of all the tables? Wouldn't the tapes show who won and who lost?

Back to news: the ex-Director of NPI (which seems to be the equivalent of our Bureau of Prisons) says Joran will not be going to Miguel Castro Castro prison (as the Peruvian press reported yesterday.) (Google translation here.)He says Miguel Castro Castro is not secure enough to protect him. He believes Joran is likely to go to another maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas.

If Joran does go to Miguel Castro Castro, I hope he doesn't try to escape. There are a lot of land mines around the prison, courtesy of the old Peruvian government. Last month, the U.S. agreed to give Peru almost $3 million to remove some that are still there.

He's being closely guarded to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide. (Apparently, he hit his head against the wall of an elevator and they are taking that as a suicide attempt. I doubt it. No way would he be in an elevator alone and I doubt you kill yourself that way. Maybe it's a story to cover up that someone else bashed his head into the wall of an elevator?)

A Peruvian lawyer, Rosa Luisa Camargo, has been appointed for him, but the Republica reports he now wants a Dutch lawyer. The opposite was reported yesterday.

I haven't checked the wires in an hour or so and they change fast. Maybe some of these questions have been answered. What doesn't add up to you about the reports?

thanks cece.....a lot doesn't add up.......too much....we had dinner last night with a couple, the husband is a retired detective. He has been following the case and has a lot of questions and a lot of things that didn;t added up to him. It was interesting to hear him talk about what he would do.  He thinks perhaps a spurned lover of Stephany killed her in a jealous rage, after joran did leave her sleeping. I asked why hasn't the hotel clerk said someone else came.....he said yes, WHY?  OR a kidnapping gone wrong.....someone at the recognized Stephany....then joran leave her alone sleeping in the room.....someone from the hotel calls to tell whoever that she is there and alone.....a kidnapping gone bad??    From what he has read the clerk was scared chitless and would say whatever she was told to or she was that someone.  So joran left and said something about not disturbing his girl...per the clerk. Where is the video tape of joran leaving and returning with the coffee.   If he was running why didn't he take his passport? and all his money and credit cards?  Lots of stuff like that....it made for very interesting dinner conversation!!!


But he took her car.  That tells me that he knew she was dead when he left.

Do we know he took her car??  Another one of those reports......the car was 50 blocks from the hotel.....someone took it.....I hope there is some surveillance tapes with whoever took it or dropped it off.  I'd also like to know what is in the area where it was found??  Was it near where joran got the taxi??

Well, there was a report that Joran had her keys.  A lot wasn't made of it, but it was said that he had her keys and that he had left the car 50 blocks away in a very sleezy part of town.

Also, it's been reported that from the time that Joran and Stephany went into his room, until the time that Joran left with his bags the only person who entered or left the room was Joran and that once Joran left with his bags until the body was found...no other person entered or left the room. So, with having the video tape to check out who entered and left the room and there being bars on the windows it leaves:  Joran and Stephany entered his room; Joran left.

With what we know right now it seems like solid evidence.  If there lab work indicates Joran's DNA under Stephany's fingernails or her blood on his shirt, that's the total end of it.

In fact, that there's a 3-judge panel (no jury) and requiring a preponderence of evidence (not a reasonable doubt) makes it seem like LE will have more that one avenue to get Joran convicted on.

Like I said, that's based on what we know now (very fluid).



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:41:20 PM
Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?

that was yesterday....I have read several times there was a hearing today...but again, it could be a translation error.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:41:55 PM
GRETA SAID WHAT ?!?

Anna writes: "You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!"

Greta said that?

A bit stunning.  You may remember, years ago here in the US there was a movement to open to liability the manufacturers of guns and ammunition -- on the basis that they sold the means for criminals to commit lethal crimes.

It went nowhere because it is illogical.  As is Greta's strange comment.

.

her reasoning skills have sharply diminished. Or she was kicked in the head by a Clydesdale.

Plus I'm tired of watching her dress in boy's clothes, size six.

And I hate her pennyloafers.

Agree, Rob.  Greta has a couple of sons.  I think she saved their clothing from when they were six years old and that is now her wardrobe.  Shoes included.

Oh....I thought Greta didn't have any children...

she doesn't


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 05:43:18 PM
I looked at the pictures of that murderer being examined and it looks to my nursing assessment eye that he has fresh trauma, scratches/new bruising on his upper chest.  And what is all this looking upward he's doing in those pictures; I don't think he's going to find his lying, murder accomplice, murder covering-up daddy in that direction.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:45:48 PM
Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?
...and that's another thing that confuses me.  In this country, once someone is arrested, they don't get to riffle through their own stuff.  They are entered into evidence, and one would get possession of it after they are either aquitted, or serve their time.  Maybe it's just me though...

Thoughts?

and then the police also examine the items without gloves....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 05:46:10 PM

snipped.....
Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in Aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind

Oh Sunny.....that absolutely happened....no doubt in any Monkeys mind. He did leave wayyyyyyy before the Peru Tournament.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 05:46:28 PM


Well, I AM letting my hopes get up again.  Even though they've been dashed so many times before over the last 5 years. I again choose to believe that this time, justice will prevail.

I don't accept the notion that the Peruvians give a flying flip what the Dutch think about their justice system.  I believe they care much, much more about their own countryman and his family, his daughter.

I do not believe that the corrupt Dutch nor the corrupt Arubans will be able to stand between Joran van der Death and his fate this time.

This really is the beginning of the end.  I believe.

::happy dancing monkey::



Count me in!!!  (http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/monkey_dance.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 05:47:12 PM
Wait, I'm confused.  Riddle me this, Batman...It's quite obvious that they have clear surviellance tapes of his entering and leaving the hotel room.  Am I correct there?  If that's the case, isn't it as simple as them both entering togetrher, and him leaving alone?  There is no other signs of anyone else entering the room.  Again, am I correct there?  If that's the case, how can it even be argued that he committed this act?  Again, if what I said is true, that's all one would need to convict...right?  Even Aruba couldn't f*** this one up...


Hi there, Third,

Yes, you are correct.  Anyone else entering that room would appeat on the digital tapes just as Joran and Stephany did.  Mark Furman said there are bars on the outside of the windows and so no one could possibly enter through a window either.

I don't know how anybody could say someone else was involved.  The coroner has set the time of death as during the time Joran was in the room based on decomp.

It's open and shut to me as well, don't understand the conflict there at all.

Maybe someone entering the room wouldn't show up on camera if they were a vampire, lol.  But I think we are getting pretty far out there.  16 camera bank of security vids and it's all tied down as to who came and went.

Two went in, one came out.
Hey Anna!  ;)

That's what I'm saying.  That is why I am not even the slightest bit worried about another "Aruban investigation" problem happenening this time around.  Again, unless the guy is in the new "Twilight" movie and can shape-shift, there's no explaining away him and her entering, but only him exiting.  This isn't the game "Clue".  We have indisputable eveidence there alone.  There is absolutely no way it can be ignored.  They entered, he beat her to death, and he exited.  I don't care what RU, or Ren-Ho, or any one of his supporters say.  It's like the O.J. case.  I guage those who say he's innocent to be quite frankly dumb and without logic thinking capabilities.  Anyone who even argues his innocence should be considered the same...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 05:48:16 PM
One thing I have learned from watching these diabolical cretins over there years - whatever the situation, make it happen.

He's mentally deranged - out come all of Joran psych records dating back to when he was a lil boy.

He's a sporter - out come the tennis tournaments.

He's a terrific student - out comes people sayin' he's a wonderful student and way above average.

He's no rapist - out comes the mother to say how loving he is with all his girlfriends.

He has dreams and wants to go to college - away he goes to Holland to fulfill his dreams.

He doesn't gamble, doesn't smoke, doesn't do drugs ....

nevermind none of that was even remotely true. None.

no matter what the story, no matter what the situation - there is always something to say otherwise, who cares if anyone believes
it or if there is any evidence to support it.

You know I don't have any love lost or found for Aruba, but there were as many or more cretins in the USA, who stood to profit from Joran's "innocence" as there were Arubans, perhaps more.  Enter Joe Tacopino and who paid that dead lice on the back of rigor mortise.  Where are the Joisey folks, the evil politicians of Chicago and fast Eddie's of Pennsylvania and thugmovers of Miami who contributed to the idea that the sporter was an innocent young man and Beth was the evil witch.  Who perpetrated this?  A couple of old ex-patriots whose backsides look like that baboon posted here earlier.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 07, 2010, 05:48:18 PM
Wait, I'm confused.  Riddle me this, Batman...It's quite obvious that they have clear surviellance tapes of his entering and leaving the hotel room.  Am I correct there?  If that's the case, isn't it as simple as them both entering togetrher, and him leaving alone?  There is no other signs of anyone else entering the room.  Again, am I correct there?  If that's the case, how can it even be argued that he committed this act?  Again, if what I said is true, that's all one would need to convict...right?  Even Aruba couldn't f*** this one up...


Hi there, Third,

Yes, you are correct.  Anyone else entering that room would appeat on the digital tapes just as Joran and Stephany did.  Mark Furman said there are bars on the outside of the windows and so no one could possibly enter through a window either.

I don't know how anybody could say someone else was involved.  The coroner has set the time of death as during the time Joran was in the room based on decomp.

It's open and shut to me as well, don't understand the conflict there at all.

Maybe someone entering the room wouldn't show up on camera if they were a vampire, lol.  But I think we are getting pretty far out there.  16 camera bank of security vids and it's all tied down as to who came and went.

Two went in, one came out.

Video camera's just like cell phones or corded phones can be tapped into, and information from these devices can be tampered with. I'm sure the defence will use something along those lines. The images may be supportive evindence but i'm affraid that no judge would pass sentence based on those images alone. Blood on clothing found in his possesion with dna matching the victim would be a lot more helpfull. As for the bars on the windows, I'm sure Joe Tacopina is researching the capabilities of ninja contortionists as we speak.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 05:48:36 PM
I looked at the pictures of that murderer being examined and it looks to my nursing assessment eye that he has fresh trauma, scratches/new bruising on his upper chest.  And what is all this looking upward he's doing in those pictures; I don't think he's going to find his lying, murder accomplice, murder covering-up daddy in that direction.

Good one Darleen!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 05:49:08 PM
And so what if he wants a lawyer from the Netherlands.  He's not in the Netherlands anymore.  Who's going to pay for that?  I don't think his mother will; as far as I know, she hasn't even bought a ticket to go visit him--although she's surely heard that he's crying for her.  And the Refugees aren't going to do it; I heard that their management told them to cease and desist using that site to raise money for him.  I don't think he really ever had any support not attached to his daddy who can't help him now...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wingnut on June 07, 2010, 05:50:05 PM
Every crime leaves behind evidence.

In 2005, Joran had the benefit of home-town cooking. His well-connected father was instrumental in making the evidence disappear, with help from his associates.  Unfortunately, law enforcement became more concerned with hiding the crime and was driven by protecting their tourism dollars. The game was rigged as justice could never be attained for a poor family, who only sought a proper burial for their deceased daughter.

Fast forward the clock 5 years to the year 2010. A crime has been committed on foreign soil. Same as before, evidence exists. Unlike 2005, there will be no one there to make it disappear. No doubt about it, the case files will contain surveillance footage from the casino, exiting the casino, entering the hotel with SF, exiting the hote; without SF a few hours later, a coroner's report of an estimated time of death, toxicology reports, bloody shoe prints, victim blood on Joran, murder weapon, DNA evidence, laptop, and much more.

Too bad for Joran, there will be no bottomless evidence drawer, no 10 day head start, no false arrests, no Jan Van derStraaten, no disinformation campaign, no witness intimidation, no judicial friends and favors, no new concrete around the pool, no new furniture, no CAPSLOCKWIZARD, no cell phone in jail, nor a lot of other unmentioned perks.

A foreign (Dutch/Aruban) citizen enters Peru and commits a heinous crime against the daughter of a well-known Peruvian citizen. They will ensure a fair trial for Joran, according to acceptable standards. He will pay for this crime. Law enforcement is taking it serious. Joran VanderSloot is no one special to them, just a foreigner who has committed a crime against one of its own.

Behind the scenes, due to his notoriety, his (soon-to-be) new roomates at jail facility probably have some surprises in store for him. Might even include a new game or two (Drop the Soap, etc). He is going to pay a dear price for his latest actions.

Just my humble opinions...




I agree with your opinion.  NO WAY the Peruvians are going to go soft on him.  No way.  He got cocky, thinking the world was his oyster.  He committed this crime in South America.  These people will want his blood.  And they will get it.  MY opinion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:51:49 PM
I think everyone is getting a little too excited about these conflicting reports regarding this case.  Believe you me, this guy is going to DIE in a Peruvian Prison.  There is no way the Dutch or anyone else will be able to manipulate the system the way the Arubans have in the past.  And if what I hear is true about the bloody clothes they found in his bag, he's dead to rights with regards to his guilt...

Let's all take a deep breath and celebrate what's going on right now in Peru.  It's the beginning of the end for dear old Joran!!

I, for one am not getting excited, TS...but it does make me wonder what the truth is....I can't believe he had bloody clothes in his bag....he had ample time to get rid any any evidence like that....including the tennis racket. I am not as sure as your are about the Dutch not being able to manipulate the system. I just want the truth and so far I do not believe we are hearing the whole truth....so I will wait.

Maybe this will shed some light....I read that they found blood on Joran's shirt using Luminol. 
Sounds to me like he washed the blood out of the shirt (or thought he did, probably dried it with a hair dryer) and took it with him.  We all know that even if there's the tiniest trace of blood (not even visible to the naked eye), that Luminol will show up. 

As always, Joran thinks he can outsmart anyone...heck...he probably never thought he would get picked up.

Luminol....


Puzzler, thanks I read that as well....but I still haven't seen anything official. Just like I hear her jewelry was all missing and the video I watch a moment ago said it was on her still.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 07, 2010, 05:52:33 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?


I thought it was footboard as the mattress is in a sort of wooden box.  One of the corners of that box, head or foot, is where her head was hit.  Allegedly.

Yes, something like European box springs - made out of wood - that the mattress lies on.
Mattress was pushed aside at upper corner of bed (maybe translated as headboard) and something happened there...another area of blood discovered by Luminol.  Mark Furhman said he talked with the coroner and was told that if the bed was the cause of the fatal blow it wouldn't have happened by Stephany falling down...that kind of would would have been made by extreme force and pushing her head onto the bed.   Then it came out that a tennis racquet could have been used and it's being tested, too. 

Like Anna said, it appears that there's a few more days to get in test results to answer some of the questions.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:53:15 PM
There has been no news conference from the Preuvians as yet so no offical statement on anything.  I don't expect one for this first week of interrogations.  They are trying to get the story straight and give Joran a chance to clear up any questions.  When and if he is unable to do so, they will make an official statement and not before.

What information we are getting is from various reporters, most of whom do not speak Spanish and are not very careful about their facts.

So as yet, there is no official storyline.  There won't be for several more days.  We just have to try to patch together what we can from the media coverage which may or may not be correct.

Of course, we all want a straight and simple answer but think we have a few more days yet to go for that.

Anna, I agree with you totally.  So we wait. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 07, 2010, 05:55:58 PM
And so what if he wants a lawyer from the Netherlands.  He's not in the Netherlands anymore.  Who's going to pay for that?  I don't think his mother will; as far as I know, she hasn't even bought a ticket to go visit him--although she's surely heard that he's crying for her.  And the Refugees aren't going to do it; I heard that their management told them to cease and desist using that site to raise money for him.  I don't think he really ever had any support not attached to his daddy who can't help him now...

There is probably a whole host of people in the Netherlands and Aruba who would come to his rescue monetarily as there was a lot of coverup and someone is going to pay through the nose if that is uncovered, so someone will pay for this just to continue the coverup.  No one wants to be his cell mate.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 05:56:21 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?

I think there's been a lot of translation confusion.  I don't think they ever said she hit her head on a headboard for sure, I think someone was guessing she could have. 

It's my understanding they are saying the weapon was a racquet. 

There is a headboard in the room of the same type, shown in the brochure. Might be where I got the idea, tho someone did suggest she might have hit her head on one. All speculation, as you say. (Looking at the brochure again, I see that Joran did not pay for the room with the heart-shaped hot tub in the room. Yes, he must be broke.)

http://www.guiahostal.com/lima/hotel_tac.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 05:56:49 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?

I think there's been a lot of translation confusion
.  I don't think they ever said she hit her head on a headboard for sure, I think someone was guessing she could have. 

It's my understanding they are saying the weapon was a racquet. 

Klaas, you are so right....I think the various translations are not only confusing but imparting misinformation.....the racquet was originally a bat...her jeans became a skirt, the multiple stab wounds disappeared and now it is a sever beating and broken neck..one think we do know....she died at the hands of another person. Gone too soon.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 06:06:49 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?

I think there's been a lot of translation confusion.  I don't think they ever said she hit her head on a headboard for sure, I think someone was guessing she could have. 

It's my understanding they are saying the weapon was a racquet. 

There is a headboard in the room of the same type, shown in the brochure. Might be where I got the idea, tho someone did suggest she might have hit her head on one. All speculation, as you say. (Looking at the brochure again, I see that Joran did not pay for the room with the heart-shaped hot tub in the room. Yes, he must be broke.)

http://www.guiahostal.com/lima/hotel_tac.htm

(http://www.guiahostal.com/lima/clientes/hotel_tac/fot2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 06:07:59 PM
Has anyone found the video of joran's first hearing?  I have seen several references to it being out on the Internet, but I have not found it??

I haven't seen it either Sunny.  Unless what they are calling the "first hearing" was the video of them going through his possessions & doing the medical, etc?

that was yesterday....I have read several times there was a hearing today...but again, it could be a translation error.
He was to be formally charged today is all I have read.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 06:09:05 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/06/07/peru.murder.case/

Police report reveals new details in Peru murder case
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 7, 2010 -- Updated 2148 GMT (0548 HKT)

(CNN) -- A Peruvian police report leaked Monday says the alleged victim of Joran van der Sloot was found in his hotel room on the floor, half-dressed. The report provides new details about the hours before Stephany Flores' body was found.

Van der Sloot, who was twice arrested in connection with the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005, is in Peruvian custody as a suspect in the killing of Flores, 21.

According to the document, the Hotel Tac, where van der Sloot was staying, received a call from someone looking for him about 11 p.m. June 1. The receptionist forwarded the call, but no one answered. The hotel worker assumed that van der Sloot was asleep because the room key was with him and not the front desk.

About an hour later, according to the police report, the receptionist noticed that van der Sloot owed money for two nights and went up to his room, where her knocks went unanswered. The television was blaring, so the hotel employee figured he was resting, the report says.

Afterward, the hotel supervisor told the employee to go back to van der Sloot's room and enter using a spare key. When the employee went in, she found Flores' body on the floor, dressed in a black T-shirt and red panties, half-covered with a piece of white clothing, the police report said.

Flores was bleeding from her nose, the report said.

The hotel employee became frightened at the sight and went to alert her supervisor and the police, turning off the television and lights on her way out of the room, the report said.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 06:09:18 PM
Well, those involved in the cover-up in Aruba had better cut their losses and start talking because there's no guarantee that they're going to continue to hide what happened there anymore.

As for anyone else being involved in Stephany's murder, there's no one else involved.  That murderer acted alone and the whole world knows it; and, unlike in Natalee's murder (any sliver of possibility that it was manslaughter has now disappeared), there will be no one involved in a cover-up.  He deserves the harshest punishment available, and he's going to get it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 06:11:05 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?


It appears the headboard is the type that is attached to the wall, and in this case the wrong wall.  It looks like the rooms have been rearranged. A portion of the headboard is visible in another picture. I do believe that the "hit her head on the headboard" was just one of many speculations we have heard/read. There is what appears to be tile on the walls.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 06:12:39 PM
AZSunny, you are correct.  Greta does not have any children.  For some reason I thought she had two sons but looked up her bio and she has no children.  So maybe she shops in the Boys' Dept instead.

I am just angry with her for implying it was Beth's money that enabled Joran to get to Peru when she, Greta, has given him money in the past for the fake Paulus tapes.  She must make Beth feel terrible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 06:12:59 PM


Well, I AM letting my hopes get up again.  Even though they've been dashed so many times before over the last 5 years. I again choose to believe that this time, justice will prevail.

I don't accept the notion that the Peruvians give a flying flip what the Dutch think about their justice system.  I believe they care much, much more about their own countryman and his family, his daughter.

I do not believe that the corrupt Dutch nor the corrupt Arubans will be able to stand between Joran van der Death and his fate this time.

This really is the beginning of the end.  I believe.

::happy dancing monkey::



I agree Lifesong, and I certainly hope we are right!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 06:14:09 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?


It appears the headboard is the type that is attached to the wall, and in this case the wrong wall.  It looks like the rooms have been rearranged. A portion of the headboard is visible in another picture. I do believe that the "hit her head on the headboard" was just one of many speculations we have heard/read. There is what appears to be tile on the walls.
I think I read the photos were of Room 208, which they told Greta had the same layout.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 06:15:07 PM
AZSunny, you are correct.  Greta does not have any children.  For some reason I thought she had two sons but looked up her bio and she has no children.  So maybe she shops in the Boys' Dept instead.

I am just angry with her for implying it was Beth's money that enabled Joran to get to Peru when she, Greta, has given him money in the past for the fake Paulus tapes.  She must make Beth feel terrible.


I agree that it was a very callous remark to make. And I further agree she should find a personal shopper with a little more flair and lot more color! :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 06:16:34 PM
Every crime leaves behind evidence.

In 2005, Joran had the benefit of home-town cooking. His well-connected father was instrumental in making the evidence disappear, with help from his associates.  Unfortunately, law enforcement became more concerned with hiding the crime and was driven by protecting their tourism dollars. The game was rigged as justice could never be attained for a poor family, who only sought a proper burial for their deceased daughter.

Fast forward the clock 5 years to the year 2010. A crime has been committed on foreign soil. Same as before, evidence exists. Unlike 2005, there will be no one there to make it disappear. No doubt about it, the case files will contain surveillance footage from the casino, exiting the casino, entering the hotel with SF, exiting the hote; without SF a few hours later, a coroner's report of an estimated time of death, toxicology reports, bloody shoe prints, victim blood on Joran, murder weapon, DNA evidence, laptop, and much more.

Too bad for Joran, there will be no bottomless evidence drawer, no 10 day head start, no false arrests, no Jan Van derStraaten, no disinformation campaign, no witness intimidation, no judicial friends and favors, no new concrete around the pool, no new furniture, no CAPSLOCKWIZARD, no cell phone in jail, nor a lot of other unmentioned perks.

A foreign (Dutch/Aruban) citizen enters Peru and commits a heinous crime against the daughter of a well-known Peruvian citizen. They will ensure a fair trial for Joran, according to acceptable standards. He will pay for this crime. Law enforcement is taking it serious. Joran VanderSloot is no one special to them, just a foreigner who has committed a crime against one of its own.

Behind the scenes, due to his notoriety, his (soon-to-be) new roomates at jail facility probably have some surprises in store for him. Might even include a new game or two (Drop the Soap, etc). He is going to pay a dear price for his latest actions.

Just my humble opinions...



Buckshot ... I agree with your post 100%.  However ... following the trial ... following the sentencing ... apparently there is a legal option that will allow Joran to be returned to the Netherlands to serve his sentence ... whether in a prison or ... a mental institution.

I believe that pressure will be put on Peru from Holland to allow this option to become a reality.  I believe that Peru will comply.

In My Opinion.

Janet

++++++



http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-peru-makes-evidence-public

Joran van der Sloot - Peru makes evidence public
Published on : 7 June 2010 - 5:33pm | By Sebastiaan Gottlieb (Photo: ANP)


<snipped>

 Extradition
Peru and the Netherlands do not have a mutual treaty for the return of nationals to serve their sentences in their home nation. Although negotiations for the transfer of prisoners have been taking place, it is not clear when agreement might be reached.
 
Even if such a treaty is agreed after his possible conviction, Joran van der Sloot will be able to apply to be transferred back to the Netherlands on condition that the two countries have no objections and the convicted person also agrees. It is too early to say whether Peru would cooperate with a transfer.
 
<snipped>
 



 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
Well, those involved in the cover-up in Aruba had better cut their losses and start talking because there's no guarantee that they're going to continue to hide what happened there anymore.

As for anyone else being involved in Stephany's murder, there's no one else involved.  That murderer acted alone and the whole world knows it; and, unlike in Natalee's murder (any sliver of possibility that it was manslaughter has now disappeared), there will be no one involved in a cover-up.  He deserves the harshest punishment available, and he's going to get it.

And it is about damn time too!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Searching on June 07, 2010, 06:17:42 PM
I am concerned because in the video someone posted of his belongings and he himself being searched/medical exam etc, it appears as though his belongings are still in Chile.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wingnut on June 07, 2010, 06:19:44 PM
If the netherlands make a request for extradition this request is not automatically honored. The country the prisoner is in has to agree.


*snipped*


The Peruvians will never agree to let him leave.  NEVER.  Her daddy will make sure of that.  

(http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID38737/slideshows/90b9b2a9_dbe8_4570_9bd9_97005a06924f.jpg)


And remember..........

Peruvian police say they expect Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the murder of a Peruvian college student, to be in their custody by this weekend. The victim's father, Ricardo Flores, is a businessman with close ties to the Peruvian police.


The murder of the Peruvian college student has touched the National Police in a particular way. Ricardo Flores, the young woman’s father, is president of the civic committee that supports the police’s internal affairs division. “He is a great man who has always been loyal to the police. We have no doubts that we will solve this case,” says one officer who has worked with Mr. Flores on events organized to help officers in need.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0604/What-Joran-van-der-Sloot-can-expect-from-Peruvian-police


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 06:21:49 PM
snipped

Quote
According to the document, the Hotel Tac, where van der Sloot was staying, received a call from someone looking for him about 11 p.m. June 1. The receptionist forwarded the call, but no one answered. The hotel worker assumed that van der Sloot was asleep because the room key was with him and not the front desk.

in my experience, the only people who generally know your whereabouts, in a HOTEL, are your parents. And who would make a long distance call to a hotel? especially if he had a cell phone with the beginning number of 992.

someone somewhere was probably alerting him to something. yanno, when she wasn't facebookin' and slobbering over a picture of Richard Gere in the confines of her bedroom. < wink >


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 06:22:11 PM
Does Joran Van Der Sloot Suffer from Antisocial Personality Disorder?

Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder Are Some of Society's Most Dangerous Offenders
Joran van der Sloot is in the news once again and is wanted for questioning in connection with the death of a 21-year-old woman in Peru. Many people will remember the 2005 case involving the
disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba and Joran van der Sloot's connection with the case. Authorities in Aruba detained and repeatedly questioned Joran van der Sloot about Holloway's disappearance, but never formally charged him with a crime. Now Joran van der Sloot is wanted for questioning in connection with the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez in Lima. Stephany Flores Ramirez was last seen alive by a hotel employee as she entered a room accompanied by Joran van der Sloot.

Unlike the Natalee Holloway disappearance in Aruba, there is a body and evidence accompanying the murder in Peru.

Joran van der Sloot had many different versions of what happened to Natalie Holloway and was even recorded on videotape confessing to disposing of her body in the ocean. Authorities in Aruba were never able to confirm van der Sloot's account of what happened and he has remained free in spite of his alleged involvement with the case.

It's always tragic when anyone is murdered and it's even more disturbing when someone appears to get away with murder and has the opportunity to do it again. It's likely that Joran van der Sloot suffers from a psychological disorder. Is it possible that he has Antisocial Personality Disorder? The American Psychiatric Association describes Antisocial Personality Disorder as follows:
"Individuals who match this personality disorder type are arrogant and self-centered, and feel privileged and entitled. They have a grandiose, exaggerated sense of self-importance and they are primarily motivated by self-serving goals.
  They seek power over others and will manipulate, exploit, deceive, con, or otherwise take advantage of others, in order to inflict harm or to achieve their goals. They are callous and have little empathy for others' needs or feelings unless they coincide with their own.

While this sounds like a pretty good match for Joran van der Sloot, it's unclear if he meets all of the diagnostic criteria for this disorder. In the past, these individuals have been referred to as sociopaths or psychopaths-some of society's most dangerous individuals. Regardless of what psychological disorder Joran van der Sloot actually suffers from, it's likely the world will be a safer place once he is taken into custody.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 06:24:07 PM
 To convict Joran van der Sloot of murder in Peru a 3 judge panel need only 51% belief level to send him away for 35 years...     
half a minute ago  via Twitter for iPhone 

http://twitter.com/ClintVanZandt


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
No worries everyone!!  As the late great Chick Hearn used to say..."This thing is in the refrigirator...the doors are closed...the lights are off...the eggs are cooling...the butter is getting hard...and the Jello's jigglin'!:  ;)

Like I said earlier.  The man will DIE in a Peruvian jail!  He will NOT ever be released.  He will NOT serve any of his time in a Dutch jail.  He may not even last until the trial to tell you the truth.  He's imfamous.  He may be considered a "trophy kill" for other inmates.  One can only hope, right??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 06:25:07 PM
It is really hard to believe that one unmitigated lying loser date rapist serial killer could start a world war.

I think it is their 'reputation' they are fighting for, not Joran, himself.  Also, Anita, is probably raising all kinds of hell and is being a general pain in the donkey and they want her off their collective backs.



Agreed - and what reputation they had has all been blown on Joran.

They need to learn how to pick and choose their battles better.

As far as that worthless over-sized diddling twat, Anita.

Every Aruban would be best off telling her to go pound sand in her shorts.

Carpe did you see this lol
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Anita/ISA_SpiritWeek_2010.jpg)

LOL!!!! She reminds me more and more of Raunchy Di Cuba every day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 07, 2010, 06:27:41 PM
Klaas,
You may have to ban Greta, too.  She was just on TV saying that it was the mioney extorted from Beth that enabled Joran to go to Peru!  I want to slap her silly right now.

How does Greta know it wasn't the money SHE gave Joran allegedly for the license of the fake tape of Paulus???

Hi Anna, I was saying the other day she was blaming the FBI and hinting that the money extorted was what he used to go to Peru..............I told y'all she was a biotch!!  And would do or say anything for ratings or an exclusive!!  I spit on her!!

here's the infuriating part - she SAYS, (and I paraphrase) she wanted to know why the FBI did not request extradition from Aruba on MAY 10TH. She CALLED Aruba's prosecutor's office and was told - we extradite for financial crime to the US.

So, she BELIEVES the Aruban Prosecutor's office and still no statement from the FBI. And in fact, the FBI hasn't said anything about this case in over 4 and a half years.

So, she is ever the most gullible person walking this earth or she has an axe to grind. How stupid can one be to believe anything from that prosecutor's office? And to take their word over a "no comment" from the FBI? come on now. Simma dawh Girdle.

Who here believes that Aruba would ever send Joran to the US? and for financial crimes non the less? HA!

Rob, you will get no takers on that!!  I 'know in my heart' that someone 'in the know' in aruba told him to get the hell outta dodge....perhaps because that someone knew the FBI was getting ready to ask for his arrest/detention. JMO and I don't think anyone can change my mind
I totally agree ARUBA TOLD JORAN TO LEAVE THE BLOOD OF NATALEE &  STEPHANY
ARE ON ARUBA'S HANDS!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 06:30:21 PM
How many hours before Joran starts protesting and not coming out of his cell, like he did in Aruba?

They will pick him up and roll his azz into interrogation in Peru.

All games ARE OVER. :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 06:32:43 PM
No worries everyone!!  As the late great Chick Hearn used to say..."This thing is in the refrigirator...the doors are closed...the lights are off...the eggs are cooling...the butter is getting hard...and the Jello's jigglin'!:  ;)

Like I said earlier.  The man will DIE in a Peruvian jail!  He will NOT ever be released.  He will NOT serve any of his time in a Dutch jail.  He may not even last until the trial to tell you the truth.  He's imfamous.  He may be considered a "trophy kill" for other inmates.  One can only hope, right??

I'm right there with you thirdstrike!

I believe they will hand out justice in their own way.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 07, 2010, 06:33:09 PM
he is done



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 06:33:34 PM
Misgivings, yes, he does suffer from antisocial personality disorder and it's the least offensive of his afflictions.  And, I wanted to especially say hello to you and thank you for your gracious welcome back to me the other day (I didn't see it until later); I hope all is well with you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 06:34:05 PM
To convict Joran van der Sloot of murder in Peru a 3 judge panel need only 51% belief level to send him away for 35 years...     
half a minute ago  via Twitter for iPhone 

http://twitter.com/ClintVanZandt



Yes, the judicial requirement is only a preponderance of evidence.  Not the "beyond a reasonable doubt" we have in this country. 

There are the video tapes, the blood on the shirt and likely other things like shoe prints leading to the bathroom one report cited.  I am sure Joran stole at least something if not everything she had in the way of money.  There is Joran's known history for a pattern.

The bar is set pretty low for a conviction and we have three judges only, not 12 on a jury.  It's more like when a family sues in civil court as with OJ.

And the Peruvian police seem pretty confident that they have it all under control.  They are being careful not to do anything that could be considered a human rights violation .

But it's only as you say above and not even a reasonable doubt.  Not a good place to commit a crime.  Joran was broke and running from the FBI and desperate and he messed up, big time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 06:34:33 PM
If the netherlands make a request for extradition this request is not automatically honored. The country the prisoner is in has to agree.


*snipped*


The Peruvians will never agree to let him leave.  NEVER.  Her daddy will make sure of that.   

(http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID38737/slideshows/90b9b2a9_dbe8_4570_9bd9_97005a06924f.jpg)


And remember..........

Peruvian police say they expect Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the murder of a Peruvian college student, to be in their custody by this weekend. The victim's father, Ricardo Flores, is a businessman with close ties to the Peruvian police.


The murder of the Peruvian college student has touched the National Police in a particular way. Ricardo Flores, the young woman’s father, is president of the civic committee that supports the police’s internal affairs division. “He is a great man who has always been loyal to the police. We have no doubts that we will solve this case,” says one officer who has worked with Mr. Flores on events organized to help officers in need.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0604/What-Joran-van-der-Sloot-can-expect-from-Peruvian-police

wingnut

Stephany's prominent father is the reason I believe that justice will prevail in a Peruvian court.  It is what country the sentence will be served that has me concerned.

One way or another ... Joran will not be free.  The implication is that "Natalees and Stephanys" are not at risk.

If the Netherlands ever free Joran ... extradiction to the States in regards to the extortion charge is where it is at.

Janet  (Edit- Fix typo.  MB)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 07, 2010, 06:34:49 PM

LOL!!!! She reminds me more and more of Raunchy Di Cuba every day.

same knockers


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 07, 2010, 06:35:16 PM
he is done


Done like Paris Hilton with a videocamera on!!  Done like Lindsay Lohan and a bottle of Vodka!!  Done like R. Kelly at a daycare center!!  You guys get the picture...;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 06:35:27 PM
Carpe and robots, I agree.  As soon as I heard the news, my first words were his stories are over and he's done.  And he is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 06:35:43 PM
He is most severely very very done, and I mean this so completely. No doubts.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 06:36:08 PM
SELF-EDIT - MY LAST POST

what could the s/b what country the


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 06:38:20 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?


It appears the headboard is the type that is attached to the wall, and in this case the wrong wall.  It looks like the rooms have been rearranged. A portion of the headboard is visible in another picture. I do believe that the "hit her head on the headboard" was just one of many speculations we have heard/read. There is what appears to be tile on the walls.

Good afternoon!

I thought they were referring to the "box springs" or what would hold the box springs as being what they thought her head may have been forced into that caused the injury.  IIRC the mattress was moved or askew so that this was visible when she was found.  I'm going to try to read back and find what I'm remembering.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: EURobert on June 07, 2010, 06:49:05 PM
Joran will get the ultimate punishment: DEATH

"Joran at Castro Castro prison '

If Joran van der Sloot after one week from the police cell is released, he is at the Castro Castro prison in the Peruvian capital Lima on top, according to Peruvian media. In Castro Castro are the serious criminals, found guilty of rape and murder.

The newspaper Correo described a few years ago how some rapists of minors in Castro Castro come to their end at the hands of fellow inmates. Psychologists explained how the newspaper explained: "There is a pecking order in the world of serious criminals. Crimes against children and women who can not defend his cowardly. That must be punished.''

The Castro Castro prison, is up to the edge of town, in a slum, at a dusty dry mountain. Edgar taxi driver warns us do not walk around. 'If you are robbed, the police will look about twenty hours.''

Two sentences

Taking pictures is not the prison guards, only a little at the entrance where a couple handjesvol men and boys waiting to go inside. Sunday is visiting day for men. On Wednesday and Saturday, the women visit inside.

Inside are four thousand prisoners. Those who have money, hire a private cell, those who do not have to sleep on the floor. Often have several men share a bed.

Edgar taxi driver was convinced that Joran van der Sloot two sentences ahead: "The prosecutor and the street, that is to say of his fellow prisoners." He killed a Peruvian girl. They will pay him back.''

http://tinyurl.com/2ftompf


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 06:50:05 PM

LOL!!!! She reminds me more and more of Raunchy Di Cuba every day.

same knockers

LOL!!!  I heard that Rob!

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/6-1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wingnut on June 07, 2010, 06:50:50 PM
If the netherlands make a request for extradition this request is not automatically honored. The country the prisoner is in has to agree.


*snipped*


The Peruvians will never agree to let him leave.  NEVER.  Her daddy will make sure of that.   

(http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID38737/slideshows/90b9b2a9_dbe8_4570_9bd9_97005a06924f.jpg)


And remember..........

Peruvian police say they expect Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the murder of a Peruvian college student, to be in their custody by this weekend. The victim's father, Ricardo Flores, is a businessman with close ties to the Peruvian police.


The murder of the Peruvian college student has touched the National Police in a particular way. Ricardo Flores, the young woman’s father, is president of the civic committee that supports the police’s internal affairs division. “He is a great man who has always been loyal to the police. We have no doubts that we will solve this case,” says one officer who has worked with Mr. Flores on events organized to help officers in need.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0604/What-Joran-van-der-Sloot-can-expect-from-Peruvian-police

wingnut

Stephany's prominent father is the reason I believe that justice will prevail in a Peruvian court.  It is what country the sentence will be served that has me concerned.

One way or another ... Joran will not be free.  The implication is that "Natalees and Stephanys" are not at risk.

If the Netherlands ever free Joran ... extradiction to the States in regards to the extortion charge is where it is at.

Janet  (Edit- Fix typo.  MB)



It is too high profile of a case.  The eyes of the world are on Peru.  They will not make a deal because of the "soft" message it would send.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 06:51:21 PM
I can not even begin to imagine what type of defense Joran will possibly concoct...

I guess he will go with a mysterious "third person" who killed her while he was gone (for coffee)...
He then came back to a dead body, got scared, and left without telling anyone.

The silent treatment towards interrogators will do nothing for him this time around...
Most certianly, DNA evidence and other corroborating information will tell the story for him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 06:55:10 PM
Buckshot, everytime he's caught murdering someone, he always gets scared and leaves without telling anyone.  There's no one to pick up after him this time; he has no defense.  He's done.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 06:55:44 PM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-51056-Atlanta-Pop-Culture-Examiner~y2010m6d7-Van-der-Sloot-suicide-attempt

Van der Sloot suicide attempt
June 7, 3:49 PMAtlanta Pop Culture ExaminerRadell Smith

Joran van der Sloot has a lot of reasons to attempt suicide if you were to ask Beth Twitty or Ricardo Flores and family right now, but the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores and Natalee Holloway wasn't able to take his own life, according to UPI.

Suicide effort elicits stronger security

When an inmate in a jail or prison facility feels their crime--and potential ability to escape the consequences of it--are nil, they sometimes move to thoughts of suicide. According to UPI, Joran van der Sloot has made such an attempt.

Peruvian guards learned the Dutch alleged murderer made a possible attempt on his own life recently, necessitating tighter security over the 22-year-old man.

Van der Sloot is reported to have a criminal attorney representing him now, but the Dutch authorities are also denying any willingness to pay the fees for such. With his own legally qualified father deceased and unable to represent him, Joran van der Sloot finds himself in a situation like never before: without an escape hatch.

Former Van der Sloot lawyer takes to the air (Video link)

Joran's former lawyer Joe Tacopina told FOXNews, in an on-air interview Monday, June 7, that he has no plans to resume defending Joran van der Sloot, but he is hard pressed to understand the rash rush to judgment in the case against him in Peru.

FOXNews interviewers were not impressed and, clearly, Natalee Holloway's mother would be the first to cite the fact that Joran's own attempts to get money for revealing her daughter's remains isn't the acts of an innocent man.

Another coincidental contact with a missing or dead person?

Van der Sloot is either the most unlucky young man in the world or he is a guy bent on beating and murdering young women. It's one or the other. A suicide attempt is not known to occur by innocent victims of crimes they didn't commit.

Suicide attempts in jail or prison usually indicate an inability to deal with an anticipated guilty verdict and lifetime incarceration or punishment by fellow prisoners masked as a suicide. Joran van der Sloot has been accused of beating up on girls, like Natalee Holloway and Stephany Flores. He is now in a jail with men. You think about that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 06:58:18 PM
wingnut,

I agree. The eyes of the world are on Peru and its dealing with this "notorious" prisoner.
He will NOT make a mockery of their judicial system, as was the case in Aruba.
Joran VanderSloot is a nobody to them. A foreign nobody, who happened to kill one of its citizens.

On a separate note...often times, prisoners like to kill and/or hurt (in)famous "high profile" inmates.

BUCKSHOT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 06:58:26 PM
He's too arrogant to attempt suicide; if he's indicated otherwise to the authorities, he's just trying to get himself away from other prisoners who might hurt him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 06:59:57 PM

I keep reading these theories that maybe Joran lost money to Stephany in the casino and she then went to his hotel room with him to collect that money.

I've been waiting for someone else to explain this, but no one else has so I just want to clarify that when you gamble in a casino, unless you are a known high roller, you use cash.  Period.

How you come by that cash is your business, whether you bring it with you, use an atm, take an advance on a credit card, whatever.  Joran would have had to use cash to purchase chips to play cards in the casino. 

No young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino would loan money to a stranger to play cards against him.  Let me repeat that.  Regardless of how well off and/or how sheltered, any young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino is savvy enough not to loan money to other gamblers.

This is just my opinion, and of course I have no idea why she went to his hotel room with him.  I just find it highly unlikely that she went to collect on money he'd lost to her while playing cards.  She would've already collected that money at the table in chips.

JMO and only MO


Not being a gambler myself other than the slots occasionally, I had the same questions Lifesong.  My DH has played the poker tables some in the past so I asked him about it.  I would have thought that you would have to be able to settle the debt (with cash) there in the casino too in order to place that bet in the first place.  

He said it is possible to request a "marker" like an IOU.  But that is only if everyone agrees.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 07:03:54 PM
2 hours from now, Peter R de Vries will be on a Dutch talkshow talking about Joran's arrest and his opinion on the matter.
I'll try and translate some of the high lights.


And a piccture of Peter R deVries if you can.  Some of us have a crush on him and think he is a very handsome man.  Mostly me, I think.

You're not alone.

Put his name on my dance card too ...!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 07:05:41 PM
SM FP

Maggie on June 7th, 2010 2:43 pm

Just watching HLN news..Jean Casarez said she just obtained a copy of a report the hotel gave. Someone (female from the casino I believe)called to the hotel for Joran. The person went to his room heard the blaring tv, knocked on the door and got no answer. She went back to the desk, noticed he had not paid for his room the past 2 days, so she called the manager and they told them to use the spare key and go in the room. She said when she went in the room was a total mess.
Mattress was half off the bed, sheets were ripped off the bed…clothes everywhere, 5 cigarette butts in the ashtray, 2 drinks,,,diet soda was all drank , reg soda still had some in it.. The person was on the floor in her panties and a t shirt.. I think it said she had all of her jewellry still on if I heard it right.. The girl had bruises all over.. She thought it was Joran at first until she saw the long hair. She was bleeding from the ear and nose..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 07:12:23 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/07/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3

(CNN) -- A Peruvian police report leaked Monday says the alleged victim of Joran van der Sloot was found in his hotel room on the floor, half-dressed. The report provides new details about the hours before Stephany Flores' body was found.


According to the document, the Hotel Tac, where van der Sloot was staying, received a call from someone looking for him about 11 p.m. June 1. The receptionist forwarded the call, but no one answered. The hotel worker assumed that van der Sloot was asleep because the room key was with him and not the front desk.

About an hour later, according to the police report, the receptionist noticed that van der Sloot owed money for two nights and went up to his room, where her knocks went unanswered. The television was blaring, so the hotel employee figured he was resting, the report says.

Afterward, the hotel supervisor told the employee to go back to van der Sloot's room and enter using a spare key. When the employee went in, she found Flores' body on the floor, dressed in a black T-shirt and red panties, half-covered with a piece of white clothing, the police report said.

Flores was bleeding from her nose, the report said.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 07:13:14 PM
SM FP

Maggie on June 7th, 2010 2:43 pm

Just watching HLN news..Jean Casarez said she just obtained a copy of a report the hotel gave. Someone (female from the casino I believe)called to the hotel for Joran. The person went to his room heard the blaring tv, knocked on the door and got no answer. She went back to the desk, noticed he had not paid for his room the past 2 days, so she called the manager and they told them to use the spare key and go in the room. She said when she went in the room was a total mess.
Mattress was half off the bed, sheets were ripped off the bed…clothes everywhere, 5 cigarette butts in the ashtray, 2 drinks,,,diet soda was all drank , reg soda still had some in it.. The person was on the floor in her panties and a t shirt.. I think it said she had all of her jewellry still on if I heard it right.. The girl had bruises all over.. She thought it was Joran at first until she saw the long hair. She was bleeding from the ear and nose..

thanks carpe!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 07, 2010, 07:13:46 PM
I read a short while ago that the suicide attempt was actually Joran slamming his head against the wall of the elevator, and that the Peruvian detail 'interpreted' this as a suicide attempt? I had the link but then firefox crashed on me and I lost it.

I don't know if this has been posted yet but it's detailing that a detective (in Peru) has related they have blood and fingerprint evidence now.......?

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0607/Peru-police-say-evidence-mounts-against-Dutchman-Joran-van-der-Sloot?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fworld+%28Christian+Science+Monitor+|+World%29

Evidence stacks up

Since the discovery of Flores' body on June 2, police here have released surveillance footage of her entering the hotel where she was killed with van der Sloot. There is also video footage and testimony from witnesses who saw the two together at a local casino and in the Hotel Tac. A detective on the case says that there is physical evidence, including blood and finger prints, which point to van der Sloot as the culprit.

Under Peruvian law, police can hold Van der Sloot seven days, starting from June 5, when he was brought back to Peru from neighboring Chile. He left Peru the same day that Flores was murdered.

Authorities will also use this week to decide what the official charges will be in the case against van der Sloot, which in term will determine the scope of a future trial.

Murder or robbery charges?

If convicted of murder, van der Sloot could face anywhere from 15 to 35 years in prison. The maximum sentence would be based any a prior record and the circumstances of the murder. The average murder trial in Peru takes two years from arrest to verdict.

Luis Lamas Puccio, a leading criminal lawyer in Peru, says the fact that van der Sloot fled Peru would act as a major strike against him if he is tried and found guilty of murder. "He could be looking at the maximum sentence given the circumstances of the case," he said.

There is a possibility, however, that authorities could charge van der Sloot with aggravated robbery instead of murder. Aggravated robbery is used in cases when robbery is the motive, but the perpetrator kills the victim in the act. This crime carries a life sentence.

Police are investigating claims from Flores' friends that she had won around $1,000 playing poker in a local casino where she met Flores on May 29. They left the casino together around daybreak the next morning. Another lead involves money that Flores supposedly had with her to buy a new computer.

The police did not find any money with her, which has sparked speculation in the media that van der Sloot killed her for the cash.

The US attorney for the Northern District of Alabama charged van der Sloot with trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body. Charges of extortion and wire fraud were filed on June 3, the day van der Sloot was detained in Chile. Prosecutors say $15,000 was transferred to from a Birmingham bank to a bank account in his name in the Netherlands.

Lamas Puccio says that the case could grow complicated for the prosecutor if the decision is made to charge van der Sloot with aggravated robbery. "This involves speculating about motive. It is more difficult to demonstrate," he says.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 07, 2010, 07:19:16 PM

I keep reading these theories that maybe Joran lost money to Stephany in the casino and she then went to his hotel room with him to collect that money.

I've been waiting for someone else to explain this, but no one else has so I just want to clarify that when you gamble in a casino, unless you are a known high roller, you use cash.  Period.

How you come by that cash is your business, whether you bring it with you, use an atm, take an advance on a credit card, whatever.  Joran would have had to use cash to purchase chips to play cards in the casino. 

No young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino would loan money to a stranger to play cards against him.  Let me repeat that.  Regardless of how well off and/or how sheltered, any young woman savvy enough to play cards in a casino is savvy enough not to loan money to other gamblers.

This is just my opinion, and of course I have no idea why she went to his hotel room with him.  I just find it highly unlikely that she went to collect on money he'd lost to her while playing cards.  She would've already collected that money at the table in chips.

JMO and only MO


Not being a gambler myself other than the slots occasionally, I had the same questions Lifesong.  My DH has played the poker tables some in the past so I asked him about it.  I would have thought that you would have to be able to settle the debt (with cash) there in the casino too in order to place that bet in the first place.  

He said it is possible to request a "marker" like an IOU.  But that is only if everyone agrees.

They could have been hanging around togetheter in the days preceding the day of the murder, getting to know each other a bit and he would not have felt like that much of a stranger to her. Maybe she even thought he was a charming foreigner down on his luck. If they were playing at the same table that night and JVDS lost his money , he could have persuaded her to loan him some cash, a not so substantial amount say a thousand dollars which he said he had in cash back at his hotel just to get back in the game. He might have offered to go to his hotel and repay the loan, assuming he lost the loan. That would explain the weird behaviour (not affectionate) of them on the hotel video.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 07:21:45 PM
Several unanswered questions for me:
(1) Why kill SF, if he just wanted to rob her?
(2) Why not get his passport through a half-ass story, then catch a flight out of town.
(3) Why not use SF car?
(4) Who was this Albanian guy and what/where does he fit in to the story?

I know that most of the answers to the above questions can be summed up with:
Sense of entitlement, need for attention, uncontrollable rage, irrational thinking, arrogance.

Same as with OJ Simpson, wouldn't a person realize that they had received the luckiest break ever bestowed upon a person, having gotten a "get out of jail free card" and dodged a life imprisonment/death penalty for such a heinous crime? Then, simply kept their nose clean, laying low, and under the radar.

I suppose this is what makes these people so special and incapable of suppressing the monster that lies within...




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 07:24:55 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_73588.php

Google translation:

"Blood on shirt Joran '

June 7, 2010, 14:06 (GMT -04:00)

Email this article 
Print this article 

ORANGE CITY / LIMA - Joran van der Sloot (22) remains at least one week in custody at the office of the Peruvian national police in Lima. A judge has extended the remand so that researchers can build a case against him. Joran has not been formally charged with the murder of 21-year-old Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez.

The Peruvian press has already convicted the Dutchman. "As pretty as that" he is dangerous, "the Peruvian newspaper Diario Aja to Joran. In the same article he compared to a vampire that sucks the prey items and proceed to the next victim. Other newspapers and news media translate the call of the people that "gringo be behind bars. United Press International (UPI) reports that Joran extra eye is kept in his cell. He may have tried to commit suicide, said the Peruvian authorities to UPI. Other sources were reported this morning.

Blood
Details about the research remains now appear in the local press. Thus we read that the murder victim's blood was found on a T-shirt from Joran. Moreover, pictures released by Flores Joran in the casino and hotel. On the images of the hotel to see how they go together to the reception to the room key target. On security images taken in the course of room 309, is then to see how together they enter the room and how Joran few hours later just comes out. The most recent images in the media have fallen, from an interrogation of murder suspect by the authorities. Joran makes it a calm impression, while agents search his belongings and ask him questions.

The CNN reported then that the Dutch embassy had asked for clarification about the treatment of Joran. The embassy would not be happy with the way the authorities deal with Joran. So he had to include pacing, so the press could make extensive footage of him. Today let the Foreign Ministry, however, know "not to interfere in the judicial process of another country."

Voodoo
While Joran in the research building of the Peruvian police to the press was shown were shamans, Peruvian medicine men, the building doing a ritual. They called supernatural powers to Joran to punish for his actions. With long knives were inserted on a voodoo doll that kind of murder suspect to propose.

FBI
After his father, Paul van der Sloot, died in February of this year, came after the funeral Joran back in the Netherlands to Aruba. He stayed here until he left Peru on May 13 direction. Chief Peter Whites today in The Times said that Joran had already been investigated by the FBI. This confirms Advocate General Amigoe Taco Stein. The FBI has this worked with the local police and prosecutor. The study took last Wednesday when it became known that police the body of Flores in the hotel room was discovered. Police then served a federal suit against Joran for extortion.

This is a long sentence in the United States.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 07:30:31 PM
Hi Monkeys! coming back from my trip :)

I think that he met different girls in Peru and i am worried that some are scaried to go to the police. I read somewhere that he missed a dinner with his friend in the Rosa Nautica. Its that true?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 07, 2010, 07:36:04 PM
http://www.sense-studios.com/lamavsjoran/

Click on the link above to play the game:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JOranGame.jpg)


 Trying to play catch up from the last few days... been very very busy..  THANK YOU to all of you who posted links to videos.. news stories..photos .. etc!

THEN I came across this game..  ROFLMAO.. TY Klass.. I am peein my pants here!!  :)~


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 07, 2010, 07:39:23 PM
http://www.sense-studios.com/lamavsjoran/

Click on the link above to play the game:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JOranGame.jpg)


 Trying to play catch up from the last few days... been very very busy..  THANK YOU to all of you who posted links to videos.. news stories..photos .. etc!

THEN I came across this game..  ROFLMAO.. TY Klass.. I am peein my pants here!!  :)~

Hi ya' Angie!!!  Maybe I should start a thread in "Games" with this one. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 07:41:42 PM
Here is 24Horas "Exclusive" photo of the hotel room or one like it. Does not match Fox's photo of the hotel room or one like it. (Sorry, I don't know how to post photos.)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8038.380


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 07:42:34 PM
How many hours before Joran starts protesting and not coming out of his cell, like he did in Aruba?

They will pick him up and roll his azz into interrogation in Peru.

All games ARE OVER. :)

Or stick his fingers in his ears. lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 07:45:50 PM
http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/

June 7, 2010
Tale of the Surveillance Tapes!
Posted: 04:38 PM ET

Joran van der Sloot Caught with Murder Victim on Video!

All sorts of new, chilling videotapes are emerging in the murder case against one-time Natalee Holloway suspect, Joran van der Sloot. One is surveillance video showing van der Sloot with murder victim, 21-year-old Stephany Flores, at a casino just hours before her brutal murder.
Stephany Flores / Joran van der Sloot

Another shows van der Sloot with Flores arriving at a Lima, Peru hotel walking into van der Sloot’s hotel room. Eerily it would be the last time Flores is seen alive.

Less than four hours later, hotel surveillance video captures van der Sloot leaving the hotel room alone, Flores’ badly beaten body left behind, according to police. A newly released police report reveals quite a disturbing crime scene. Flores’ body was discovered by a hotel receptionist at 12:40 a.m., June 2, the TV left blaring in the room.

According to the hotel employee, when she looked to her right, there was Flores’ body on the floor. The murder victim dressed in a black shirt, red underwear, no jeans and a piece of clothing, believed to be Joran van der Sloot’s beige shirt, partially over her body. Flores’ legs folded to the left and she was bleeding from the nose, the bed and the sheets in disarray on the floor. Police believe a tennis racquet found in the room is the murder weapon. Another piece of video shows van der Sloot after his capture as Chilean police comb through all his belongings then try to get him to open up while traveling in a police van. We now know investigators found bloodied clothes with van der Sloot. The clothing and tennis racquet are being tested for DNA.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 07:49:58 PM
Regarding OTR pictures of Room 309: Useless. There's no headboard on this bed. Other reports said she hit her head on the headboard. Is OTR deliberately trying to confuse this whole story?


It appears the headboard is the type that is attached to the wall, and in this case the wrong wall.  It looks like the rooms have been rearranged. A portion of the headboard is visible in another picture. I do believe that the "hit her head on the headboard" was just one of many speculations we have heard/read. There is what appears to be tile on the walls.

Now I see what you're saying. In OTR's photo, the bed is moved so that it is not aligned under the headboard. In the 24Horas photo, the bed is aligned under the headboard. OTR does not claim that their photo is of the exact room. I don't know whether the 24Horas photo is of the exact room or a similar room. Anyway, she could have fallen against or been pushed into the headboard. Anyway, never mind the headboard: Klaas says that a tennis racquet was probably the weapon.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Frijole on June 07, 2010, 07:50:33 PM
Just had a thought on the blood on Joran's shirt.

The news report today that I heard on Sirius radio (the channel nancy grace is on) described the scene.  The victim had on a blouse and red panties.  They said there was a white/tan shirt placed over her legs and they believed that shirt was Joran's.  Remember that is what he had on when they entered the room together.  Obviously if on top of her it would have her blood on it. 

I wish Peru had an official spokesperson that we could get updates from.... so many differences in reports.  It will all come together in time I suppose.

I was glad to hear Joran hit his head against the wall.  No way that was suicidal... that is just Joran being Joran.  I am sure they are just being extra careful with him given the intl exposure.  Once the evidence all comes out and he is officially charged and thrown in a real prison I am sure he won't be eating the same food as the police.  And no more bottled water either.  Spoiled brat. 

I'm pretty sure those guys are gonna play hard ball and this punk won't get away with anything.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 07:51:38 PM
Hi Monkeys! coming back from my trip :)

I think that he met different girls in Peru and i am worried that some are scaried to go to the police. I read somewhere that he missed a dinner with his friend in the Rosa Nautica. Its that true?

Welcome back, cecilita!

I have no idea about Rosa. I haven`t heard about it.

Just wanted to say HI.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 07:52:22 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

http://www.livesecure.org/

Where on this site is it?  I thought he said it was a download to your phone and costs 99cents ?? what is it called?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 07, 2010, 07:52:36 PM
Dutch subtitles have been added with what the Police are asking and what Joran is replying.  At one point he tells them his is famous in Thailand.  He also tells them he wrote a book, that he plays poker very well, that he plays the flute,  that he wants to go to Bolivia.  The police say they find an ugly family photo and then ask him were he was at the time of the murder, he replies that is embarrasing..ummmm...I was masturbating..but why do you want to know?  then Joran asks masturbation is not illegal yet?  Then Joran says that they can do it differently, if you want to give me the number of my sister...

http://www.pezpaq.tv Last Sunday, the first images have emerged from the first trial of the alleged murderer Joran van der Sloot.
On the video you can see how the Dutchman calmly answered a few questions and how things are to be searched. We have for convenience only ff subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEecu6qqTgA


He`s a serial whacker. Must be pretty bad at it, if he got blood on his shirt.



 Oh Brother.. plays the flute and masturbating?     ROFLMAO.. sorry I can't help it.. only flute he plays is the "SKIN FLUTE"
<I am still wayyyyyyyyy behind reading!.. I feel like Sunny..  <giggle>  Hi Sunny!  :)~


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JA on June 07, 2010, 07:54:01 PM
I can remember the Arubans telling Beth and the US that they just didn't understand how things were done in Aruba.  They needed to respect a foreign country's way of doing things.


Well, now it is Aruba's turn to respect a way a country does things!!

The CNN reported then that the Dutch embassy had asked for clarification about the treatment of Joran. The embassy would not be happy with the way the authorities deal with Joran. So he had to include pacing, so the press could make extensive footage of him. Today let the Foreign Ministry, however, know "not to interfere in the judicial process of another country."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 07:58:50 PM
Girdle van Susteren is blaming the FBI.

klaas, can you ban her from Fox? do you have that power? please tell me you do.

Well, you know there is blame for their neglect on the extortion thingie, and yes the money that Beth gave Joran, when the FBI should have nabbed him, allowed him to move about.... Who is directing the FBI?  I think it falls under the DoJ, probably NOI.

It appears to me when the Aruba "officials" got wind that the FBI was going to arrest him they tipped him off and he fled the country. The timing is just too coincidental not for that to have happened. They seem to have stayed one step ahead of the FBI throughout this entire case. Of course the FBI does not have jurisdiction there except as Aruba gives them so the officials have to know before anyone is arrested.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JA on June 07, 2010, 07:59:53 PM
Is the shirt they are talking about with SF's bood on it, the one that was covering her, or one that Joran had with him?

You'd think he would have disposed of any bloody clothing. 

I wonder if the masturbating comment is to cover his bases if there was any type of sexual assault.

I truthfully do not see how Anita could afford any high priced lawyer that would be even willing to take the case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 07, 2010, 08:07:37 PM
AZSunny,

http://www.livesecure.org/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 08:08:24 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

http://www.livesecure.org/

Where on this site is it?  I thought he said it was a download to your phone and costs 99cents ?? what is it called?

It was on the right hand side last night, now I don't see it?

Here it is:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/silent-bodyguard-your-secret/id347506878?mt=8


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 08:08:50 PM
AZSunny,

http://www.livesecure.org/

Thanks maggie, I got there, but I can't the item. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 08:09:30 PM
We need somebody we trust, like Mr. EURobert... a Dutch speaker
to listen to the video with the Joran masturbation subtitles.

I have a feeling someone is toying with us.

Ha ha... I poke fun at de wacky Americans.... type of thing. lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 08:09:34 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

http://www.livesecure.org/

Where on this site is it?  I thought he said it was a download to your phone and costs 99cents ?? what is it called?

It was on the right hand side last night, now I don't see it?

OK, thanks anyway...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 08:11:35 PM
Girdle van Susteren is blaming the FBI.

klaas, can you ban her from Fox? do you have that power? please tell me you do.

Well, you know there is blame for their neglect on the extortion thingie, and yes the money that Beth gave Joran, when the FBI should have nabbed him, allowed him to move about.... Who is directing the FBI?  I think it falls under the DoJ, probably NOI.

It appears to me when the Aruba "officials" got wind that the FBI was going to arrest him they tipped him off and he fled the country. The timing is just too coincidental not for that to have happened. They seem to have stayed one step ahead of the FBI throughout this entire case. Of course the FBI does not have jurisdiction there except as Aruba gives them so the officials have to know before anyone is arrested.

Yes-that is what I think as well;  What I'm very curious about is why Greta is casting blame [ it's become overkill with this mantra ] on the FBI for his fast exit.  With Aruba's track record of always keeping the FBI out of the loop, this really makes her look foolish, imo. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 08:12:02 PM
Misgivings, yes, he does suffer from antisocial personality disorder and it's the least offensive of his afflictions.  And, I wanted to especially say hello to you and thank you for your gracious welcome back to me the other day (I didn't see it until later); I hope all is well with you.
Thanks Dear. Besides the perils of getting old, I am doing just fine.
Am very glad I get to see this monster get what is coming to him before my heart gives way.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:12:23 PM
Dutch subtitles have been added with what the Police are asking and what Joran is replying.  At one point he tells them his is famous in Thailand.  He also tells them he wrote a book, that he plays poker very well, that he plays the flute,  that he wants to go to Bolivia.  The police say they find an ugly family photo and then ask him were he was at the time of the murder, he replies that is embarrasing..ummmm...I was masturbating..but why do you want to know?  then Joran asks masturbation is not illegal yet?  Then Joran says that they can do it differently, if you want to give me the number of my sister...

http://www.pezpaq.tv Last Sunday, the first images have emerged from the first trial of the alleged murderer Joran van der Sloot.
On the video you can see how the Dutchman calmly answered a few questions and how things are to be searched. We have for convenience only ff subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEecu6qqTgA


He`s a serial whacker. Must be pretty bad at it, if he got blood on his shirt.



 Oh Brother.. plays the flute and masturbating?     ROFLMAO.. sorry I can't help it.. only flute he plays is the "SKIN FLUTE"
<I am still wayyyyyyyyy behind reading!.. I feel like Sunny..  <giggle>  Hi Sunny!  :)~

Hi Angie...missed ya last time.....hey, I am still usually behind...nothing changed there!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 08:12:36 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:14:50 PM
We need somebody we trust, like Mr. EURobert... a Dutch speaker
to listen to the video with the Joran masturbation subtitles.

I have a feeling someone is toying with us.

Ha ha... I poke fun at de wacky Americans.... type of thing. lol

I took the whole thing as a spoof???????????????  was it not?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 08:15:25 PM
KLASSS!!! by mistake I wrote where only are posted the news about the case :( please deleted ....sorry :(


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 08:16:16 PM
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-51056-Atlanta-Pop-Culture-Examiner~y2010m6d7-Van-der-Sloot-suicide-attempt

Van der Sloot suicide attempt
June 7, 3:49 PMAtlanta Pop Culture ExaminerRadell Smith

Joran van der Sloot has a lot of reasons to attempt suicide if you were to ask Beth Twitty or Ricardo Flores and family right now, but the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores and Natalee Holloway wasn't able to take his own life, according to UPI.

Suicide effort elicits stronger security

When an inmate in a jail or prison facility feels their crime--and potential ability to escape the consequences of it--are nil, they sometimes move to thoughts of suicide. According to UPI, Joran van der Sloot has made such an attempt.

Peruvian guards learned the Dutch alleged murderer made a possible attempt on his own life recently, necessitating tighter security over the 22-year-old man.

Van der Sloot is reported to have a criminal attorney representing him now, but the Dutch authorities are also denying any willingness to pay the fees for such. With his own legally qualified father deceased and unable to represent him, Joran van der Sloot finds himself in a situation like never before: without an escape hatch.

Former Van der Sloot lawyer takes to the air (Video link)

Joran's former lawyer Joe Tacopina told FOXNews, in an on-air interview Monday, June 7, that he has no plans to resume defending Joran van der Sloot, but he is hard pressed to understand the rash rush to judgment in the case against him in Peru.

FOXNews interviewers were not impressed and, clearly, Natalee Holloway's mother would be the first to cite the fact that Joran's own attempts to get money for revealing her daughter's remains isn't the acts of an innocent man.

Another coincidental contact with a missing or dead person?

Van der Sloot is either the most unlucky young man in the world or he is a guy bent on beating and murdering young women. It's one or the other. A suicide attempt is not known to occur by innocent victims of crimes they didn't commit.

Suicide attempts in jail or prison usually indicate an inability to deal with an anticipated guilty verdict and lifetime incarceration or punishment by fellow prisoners masked as a suicide. Joran van der Sloot has been accused of beating up on girls, like Natalee Holloway and Stephany Flores. He is now in a jail with men. You think about that.
"According to UPI, Joran van der Sloot has made such an attempt."
This is just too friggin' funny! The jerk banged his head in an elevator. Maybe next time he should ask his escorts to stomp on it for him, after all, he knows that works.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 08:16:54 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I'm watching.

It also shows that she was wearing earrings & a metal watch.
(So maybe the coroner's office has the jewelry)?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:16:56 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 08:17:51 PM
KLASSS!!! by mistake I wrote where only are posted the news about the case :( please deleted ....sorry :(

Done!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 08:18:27 PM
Jean Casarez is LIVE in Peru


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 08:19:08 PM
We need somebody we trust, like Mr. EURobert... a Dutch speaker
to listen to the video with the Joran masturbation subtitles.

I have a feeling someone is toying with us.

Ha ha... I poke fun at de wacky Americans.... type of thing. lol

I took the whole thing as a spoof???????????????  was it not?

Probably was. ... but with Joran, I mean... every day is Halloween.

It`s a crap shoot. :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 08:19:09 PM
Hi Monkeys! coming back from my trip :)

I think that he met different girls in Peru and i am worried that some are scaried to go to the police. I read somewhere that he missed a dinner with his friend in the Rosa Nautica. Its that true?

Welcome back, cecilita!

I have no idea about Rosa. I haven`t heard about it.

Just wanted to say HI.
Thanks Carpe!!!! The rosa nautica is a nice restaurant is in the beach, close there are night clubs and it located pretty close to where tha monsters hotel. Also close to that place are parking areas where people go to have sex in their cars :( and that area is very dark and easy to kill somebody and trow the body to the beach.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:19:27 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I'm watching.

It also shows that she was wearing earrings & a metal watch.
(So maybe the coroner's office has the jewelry)?

I heard earlier she was found with her jewelry on her body.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 07, 2010, 08:19:38 PM
http://www.sense-studios.com/lamavsjoran/

Click on the link above to play the game:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JOranGame.jpg)


 Trying to play catch up from the last few days... been very very busy..  THANK YOU to all of you who posted links to videos.. news stories..photos .. etc!

THEN I came across this game..  ROFLMAO.. TY Klass.. I am peein my pants here!!  :)~

Hi ya' Angie!!!  Maybe I should start a thread in "Games" with this one. 



  LOL ~!! Hi yah Muffy !! :) 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 07, 2010, 08:20:49 PM
This Alarm thing that Clint is talking about sounds cool.

http://www.livesecure.org/

Where on this site is it?  I thought he said it was a download to your phone and costs 99cents ?? what is it called?

Silent Bodyguard


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 08:20:59 PM
KLASSS!!! by mistake I wrote where only are posted the news about the case :( please deleted ....sorry :(

Done!
Thank you sweethear!!! i will not do it again :)
I just checked the videos and I noticed the police touched all the evidence without gloves!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 08:21:03 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

They say it is a police report of her injuries.

(Of course, I can't say if that is true ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: the big hammer on June 07, 2010, 08:22:16 PM
The Goon Fled From Aruba

TURBOTHINK Writes: "It appears to me when the Aruba "officials" got wind that the FBI was going to arrest him they tipped him off and he fled the country. The timing is just too coincidental not for that to have happened. They seem to have stayed one step ahead of the FBI throughout this entire case. Of course the FBI does not have jurisdiction there except as Aruba gives them so the officials have to know before anyone is arrested."

This is very likely.

On May 10 the goon receives a payment and wire of, at least $10,000.  On May 14, he is in Peru.  The intervening time?

One can envision the scads of extradition paperwork required and authority transfers needed in order for a foreign police force, like the FBI, to arrive on sovereign soil, to arrest and apprehend a national in his own country.  Of for Aruba's own vaunted police forces to act on behalf of the United States.  (Har, Har)  72 hours?  Some things happen faster, some slower.

Regardless, within 72 hours of receiving a sizeable cash extortion payment, he was on his way to Peru -- a very long trip, indeed.

He was very likely tipped off, or he knew it was time to hit the road, after his "diabolically clever" extortion plot blew up in his face.

That he proceeded to kill -- again -- was unforeseen for sure, by even him.

In the mind of this madman, the dynamics and interplay of numerous motivations likely converged: the fear of his own extortion failing, his poor play at the tables in the Peruvian casino, his current need for money, his long deviant history, the recent death of his father...the lingering and very real anger and bitterness at the Holloway-Twitty family for ruining his life... 

Just a hair trigger waiting to be pulled.  And another girl, alone in the night.  5 years to the day.  Perfect, in the eyes of a psychopath.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 08:22:59 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

They say it is a police report of her injuries.

(Of course, I can't say if that is true ;)

They have been talking about a police report that's out for a couple hours now, so it's probably true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 08:23:19 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

She had a body outline marked.  She has a reported on the ground...looked legit.   The also said she was wearing red panties, and the top she was seen in, and she was wearing a sanitary napkin, with blood.   The white shirt that Joran was wearing was thrown over her body, partially covering her torso.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 08:23:24 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I'm watching.

It also shows that she was wearing earrings & a metal watch.
(So maybe the coroner's office has the jewelry)?

I heard earlier she was found with her jewelry on her body.

Thank you Sunny.  I thought I heard or read earlier it was missing.  But, I confuse easily ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 07, 2010, 08:23:33 PM
"When the employee went in, she found Flores' body on the floor, dressed in a black T-shirt and red panties, half-covered with a piece of white clothing, the police report said."

Jean in Peru saying it was Joran's white shirt that he was seen wearing INTO the hotel room.


DAYUMmmmmmm I thought that when I was reading it earlier......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:23:37 PM
KLASSS!!! by mistake I wrote where only are posted the news about the case :( please deleted ....sorry :(

Done!
Thank you sweethear!!! i will not do it again :)
I just checked the videos and I noticed the police touched all the evidence without gloves!!!


Hi cecilita, several of us mentioned that as well....unbelievable, huh!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 08:24:57 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I'm watching.

It also shows that she was wearing earrings & a metal watch.
(So maybe the coroner's office has the jewelry)?

I heard earlier she was found with her jewelry on her body.

They said she was wearing her jewelry.

Thank you Sunny.  I thought I heard or read earlier it was missing.  But, I confuse easily ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

They say it is a police report of her injuries.

(Of course, I can't say if that is true ;)

thanks cece.....perhaps the police gave it out then.....wish they would show the video of joran going out to get coffee and coming back with the coffee and bread. I am anxious to see what he is wearing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 08:25:19 PM
I have to say seeing that picture of the wounds on Stephany's body is disturbing.

They also said Stephany was partially clothed which is different from what we heard from the father.  She had her shirt and panties on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 07, 2010, 08:26:01 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

They say it is a police report of her injuries.

(Of course, I can't say if that is true ;)

They have been talking about a police report that's out for a couple hours now, so it's probably true.

Thanks Klaas :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:28:01 PM
The Goon Fled From Aruba

TURBOTHINK Writes: "It appears to me when the Aruba "officials" got wind that the FBI was going to arrest him they tipped him off and he fled the country. The timing is just too coincidental not for that to have happened. They seem to have stayed one step ahead of the FBI throughout this entire case. Of course the FBI does not have jurisdiction there except as Aruba gives them so the officials have to know before anyone is arrested."

This is very likely.

On May 10 the goon receives a payment and wire of, at least $10,000.  On May 14, he is in Peru.  The intervening time?

One can envision the scads of extradition paperwork required and authority transfers needed in order for a foreign police force, like the FBI, to arrive on sovereign soil, to arrest and apprehend a national in his own country.  Of for Aruba's own vaunted police forces to act on behalf of the United States.  (Har, Har)  72 hours?  Some things happen faster, some slower.

Regardless, within 72 hours of receiving a sizeable cash extortion payment, he was on his way to Peru -- a very long trip, indeed.

He was very likely tipped off, or he knew it was time to hit the road, after his "diabolically clever" extortion plot blew up in his face.

That he proceeded to kill -- again -- was unforeseen for sure, by even him.

In the mind of this madman, the dynamics and interplay of numerous motivations likely converged: the fear of his own extortion failing, his poor play at the tables in the Peruvian casino, his current need for money, his long deviant history, the recent death of his father...the lingering and very real anger and bitterness at the Holloway-Twitty family for ruining his life... 

Just a hair trigger waiting to be pulled.  And another girl, alone in the night.  5 years to the day.  Perfect, in the eyes of a psychopath.


AMEN Hammer.....I believe he was tipped off that the FBI  was ready to request his detention and extradition.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:29:03 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

She had a body outline marked.  She has a reported on the ground...looked legit.   The also said she was wearing red panties, and the top she was seen in, and she was wearing a sanitary napkin, with blood.   The white shirt that Joran was wearing was thrown over her body, partially covering her torso.

thanks AZ..........


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 08:34:39 PM
Joran van der Sloot has no lawyer
Counsel of the Ministry of Justice reported that Carla Odría no longer assume the defense of the Netherlands citizen, accused of murdering the young Stephany Flores. It is unknown identity and nationality of new counsel

Defense reasons. The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot has no public defender to the investigation into the murder of Stephany Flores (21), daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores, occurred last week.

This was stated by Carla Odría, representative of the Ministry of Justice and who played public defender of European citizens in recent days.

Speaking to elcomercio.pe, Carla said Odría ignore the lawyer's identity and nationality. Reliable sources indicated that it would be Joseph Tacopina, who defended it five years ago by the death of the young American girl Natalee Holloway.

SATURDAY WAS
Odría mentioned that he had the opportunity to talk to Joran van der Sloot on Saturday in the cells of the Dirincri and noticed it quiet.

"I spoke with him in the presence of a police officer for security. I had not told me unhappy, "he said Odria. He noted that the dialogue between the two was possible thanks to the presence of an interpreter. "The translation was in the Netherlands" he said.

Counsel avoided mentioning if the Dutchman proclaimed innocence by "professional secrecy". He noted that the interview did not ask him to call other witnesses.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491188/joran-van-der-sloot-ya-no-tiene-abogado-oficio


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 08:37:23 PM
Michael Griffith the attorney in the case that became Midnight Express.

He has been in prisons in over two dozen countries.  The prison he is going to be in is the worst.  There is a dormitary group called the shining path.  There are 35 prisoners to a room.  He said when he was visiting a client there a prisoner was stabbed withing 10 feet from him.  He said if someone wanted to get to this man these people have nothing and for $50.00 they will kill Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: can on June 07, 2010, 08:38:50 PM
Several unanswered questions for me:
(1) Why kill SF, if he just wanted to rob her?
(2) Why not get his passport through a half-ass story, then catch a flight out of town.
(3) Why not use SF car?
(4) Who was this Albanian guy and what/where does he fit in to the story?

I know that most of the answers to the above questions can be summed up with:
Sense of entitlement, need for attention, uncontrollable rage, irrational thinking, arrogance.

Same as with OJ Simpson, wouldn't a person realize that they had received the luckiest break ever bestowed upon a person, having gotten a "get out of jail free card" and dodged a life imprisonment/death penalty for such a heinous crime? Then, simply kept their nose clean, laying low, and under the radar.

I suppose this is what makes these people so special and incapable of suppressing the monster that lies within...



1)  Imo,  he went into a rage when she refused to cooperate with him and I also think he could have planned to rob her and have sex with her.


2) I find it strange that he left his passport @ hotel as well and I'm surprised he didn't pay a few extra days on his room and request his passport.  Surely he could of thought of some excuse for needing it and telling desk clerk he would return it after he:- rented a car...or fill in the blanks...

3) "Why not use SF's car?" - not sure if you mean to use this car rather than hire drivers?

4) I think the Albanian guy was just another foreigner in Peru, interested in gambling that Joran hung out with. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 08:39:13 PM
Anne Bremner said there is more to be seen in forensics.  Joran is going to the gates of hell.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 08:40:37 PM
INPE rule out Dutchman accused of killing a young Peruvian woman is detained in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge

Lima (Peru.com) .- The head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, said he still has not defined the prison to be transferred to the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of killing the young Stephany Flores.
 
In a conversation with RPP Noticias, the official explained that the Rating Board is still assessing the situation from abroad, who is detained at the headquarters of the Criminal Investigation Department (DIRINCRI).
 
However, Rodriguez Rabanal van der Sloot denied that he is to be held in San Jorge Lurigancho or so may be a penalty of Lima, but declined to give further details until the board makes a decision.
 
Finally, the head of INPE denied having any contact with the Netherlands Embassy in Peru and will take appropriate precautions to prevent self harm or be attacked by the inmates of the prison to which he is transferred.
 
"At the appropriate time seek a physical space and not to put at risk their physical integrity," he said.

http://www.peru.com/noticias/lima20100607/100962/INPE-descarta-que-holandes-acusado-de-matar-a-joven-peruana-sea-recluido-en-los-penales-de-Lurigancho-y-San-Jorge


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 07, 2010, 08:40:47 PM
Anne Bremner said there is more to be seen in forensics.  Joran is going to the gates of hell.

I hope he doesn't stop at the gates, but goes right on in, express lane.  No waiting. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 08:40:54 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

She had a body outline marked.  She has a reported on the ground...looked legit.   The also said she was wearing red panties, and the top she was seen in, and she was wearing a sanitary napkin, with blood.   The white shirt that Joran was wearing was thrown over her body, partially covering her torso.

thanks AZ..........

Attorney that has processed cases in Peru, and has been to the prision predicted to be Jorans, said people line up for $50 to cut the throat of prisoners that people want dead.  he said a 15 by 25 foot cell... and i think they said 25 per cell. hole in the floor for bathroom, and a shower once a week. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 08:43:21 PM
How would you like to have the wonderful job of being Joran`s defense lawyer in Peru?

Mr. Popularity! You`ll fetch more love than Taco-Pinhead.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 08:45:04 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

She had a body outline marked.  She has a reported on the ground...looked legit.   The also said she was wearing red panties, and the top she was seen in, and she was wearing a sanitary napkin, with blood.   The white shirt that Joran was wearing was thrown over her body, partially covering her torso.

thanks AZ..........

Attorney that has processed cases in Peru, and has been to the prision predicted to be Jorans, said people line up for $50 to cut the throat of prisoners that people want dead.   he said a 15 by 25 foot cell... and i think they said 25 per cell. hole in the floor for bathroom, and a shower once a week. 

They also said the other prison is just as bad too.  I don't see Joran living in this jail.  I believe the Dutch are going to pull out every stop they can or Joran will kill himself.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 08:48:26 PM
The Dutch have about as much pull in Peru as Sponge Bob Square Pants.

THE DAYS OF MORTA ARE OVER.

They had multiple chances to send him to an NL or Aruba kindergarten play house.

EPIC FAIL.

Choices have consequences. Sometimes they are fatal.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 08:50:58 PM
Jean Casarez - 5 cigs butts found in an astray near the bed.  There was a white leather purse that said Flower Power.  They don't know if it is Stephany's purse.

Pat Brown said this was an attempted rape.  She was fighting like crazy trying to get away from that man.

Lillian Glass said does he know what he is going to do ahead of time?  Possibly.

Dr. Michael Arnall - said it would take some force of like a motor vehicle accident to break her neck.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 08:54:54 PM
Did anyone hear NG reporter note that there was a small, white, leather purse with words to the effect of "Love, Peace, Flower Power" on it found in the room?

NG did a decent job this evening. Nice "autopsy-like" drawing of body with labeled wounds.

Also, a fairly descriptive account of items found, body poition, etc in relation to the room.

I just hate when her callers phone in questions...That part kills me...These people must have never, ever followed a lick about this case...WTF???

The international lawyer, from her show, definitely did not paint a pretty picture of the prison he will likely spend time in. WOW !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 08:55:43 PM
AZSunny,

http://www.livesecure.org/

Here is where you get it................

http://appshopper.com/utilities/silent-bodyguard


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 07, 2010, 08:55:45 PM
Wow!!  Gates......... of.......... Hell.  Welcome home Joran.  Welcome home.  I suspect you'll wish every day to die.  And that would be too good for you.  No, you need to live everyday at the gates of hell, and then come to Alabama.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 08:56:24 PM
Nancy Grace said they are a day late a dollar short regarding Aruba and the new search.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 07, 2010, 08:56:49 PM
I'll bet Stephany was dead within 15 minutes of entering that room.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 08:57:03 PM
Two questions:

(1) Wonder when Joran died his hair? Brown in hotel pics, reddish in capture photos.

(2) NG alluded to the fact that US may have rights on Joran through extortion charges?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 08:57:23 PM
Joran van der Sloot has no lawyer
Counsel of the Ministry of Justice reported that Carla Odría no longer assume the defense of the Netherlands citizen, accused of murdering the young Stephany Flores. It is unknown identity and nationality of new counsel

Defense reasons. The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot has no public defender to the investigation into the murder of Stephany Flores (21), daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores, occurred last week.

This was stated by Carla Odría, representative of the Ministry of Justice and who played public defender of European citizens in recent days.

Speaking to elcomercio.pe, Carla said Odría ignore the lawyer's identity and nationality. Reliable sources indicated that it would be Joseph Tacopina, who defended it five years ago by the death of the young American girl Natalee Holloway.

SATURDAY WAS
Odría mentioned that he had the opportunity to talk to Joran van der Sloot on Saturday in the cells of the Dirincri and noticed it quiet.

"I spoke with him in the presence of a police officer for security. I had not told me unhappy, "he said Odria. He noted that the dialogue between the two was possible thanks to the presence of an interpreter. "The translation was in the Netherlands" he said.

Counsel avoided mentioning if the Dutchman proclaimed innocence by "professional secrecy". He noted that the interview did not ask him to call other witnesses.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491188/joran-van-der-sloot-ya-no-tiene-abogado-oficio

I am not understanding this at all???  Is it saying Tacopenis is going to represent him?????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 07, 2010, 08:59:55 PM
I heard that, Buckshot.  I'd bet there are other victims.  No doubt he is a serial rapist.   POS



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 09:00:33 PM
Two questions:

(1) Wonder when Joran died his hair? Brown in hotel pics, reddish in capture photos.

(2) NG alluded to the fact that US may have rights on Joran through extortion charges?
he didnt shave his head very good, because you can see in the back larger hair


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 09:01:09 PM
Joran van der Sloot has no lawyer
Counsel of the Ministry of Justice reported that Carla Odría no longer assume the defense of the Netherlands citizen, accused of murdering the young Stephany Flores. It is unknown identity and nationality of new counsel

Defense reasons. The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot has no public defender to the investigation into the murder of Stephany Flores (21), daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores, occurred last week.

This was stated by Carla Odría, representative of the Ministry of Justice and who played public defender of European citizens in recent days.

Speaking to elcomercio.pe, Carla said Odría ignore the lawyer's identity and nationality. Reliable sources indicated that it would be Joseph Tacopina, who defended it five years ago by the death of the young American girl Natalee Holloway.

SATURDAY WAS
Odría mentioned that he had the opportunity to talk to Joran van der Sloot on Saturday in the cells of the Dirincri and noticed it quiet.

"I spoke with him in the presence of a police officer for security. I had not told me unhappy, "he said Odria. He noted that the dialogue between the two was possible thanks to the presence of an interpreter. "The translation was in the Netherlands" he said.

Counsel avoided mentioning if the Dutchman proclaimed innocence by "professional secrecy". He noted that the interview did not ask him to call other witnesses.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491188/joran-van-der-sloot-ya-no-tiene-abogado-oficio

I am not understanding this at all???  Is it saying Tacopenis is going to represent him?????

Could be that Joe Tacopina's law firm has an international lawyer who might represent him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 09:03:13 PM
2008

Joran first told Peter van der Eem that Natalee died in his arms. He even went as far as mimicking the unconscious Natalee as she shook and convulsed. Then he continued, “I tried everything man. I tried to shake her, I was shaking her, I was shaking the bitch. I was like, ‘what’s wrong with you man?’ I almost wanted to cry. Why does this shit have to happen to me?” When Van der Eem asked him if he really knew if Natalee was dead, as she could have still been alive, Joran looked perplexed, then nodded his head in agreement and said, “Yeah, that’s possible.” Then Joran went as far as declaring, “I’m done with it. The only thing I want now is my big fat compensation check.”

----

Hey, in 2010... that`s a real knee-slapper, isn`t it?

The times they are a changing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 09:04:36 PM
INPE rule out Dutchman accused of killing a young Peruvian woman is detained in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge

Lima (Peru.com) .- The head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, said he still has not defined the prison to be transferred to the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of killing the young Stephany Flores.
 
In a conversation with RPP Noticias, the official explained that the Rating Board is still assessing the situation from abroad, who is detained at the headquarters of the Criminal Investigation Department (DIRINCRI).
 
However, Rodriguez Rabanal van der Sloot denied that he is to be held in San Jorge Lurigancho or so may be a penalty of Lima, but declined to give further details until the board makes a decision.
 
Finally, the head of INPE denied having any contact with the Netherlands Embassy in Peru and will take appropriate precautions to prevent self harm or be attacked by the inmates of the prison to which he is transferred.
 
"At the appropriate time seek a physical space and not to put at risk their physical integrity," he said.


http://www.peru.com/noticias/lima20100607/100962/INPE-descarta-que-holandes-acusado-de-matar-a-joven-peruana-sea-recluido-en-los-penales-de-Lurigancho-y-San-Jorge


if I am reading this correctly the special treatment is in the planning stages as we speak


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 09:05:32 PM
A stupid question:

When NG kept saying the name Stephanie, I kept thinking of LOCO Stephy, then went and looked in DOSSIER ON PLAYERS section, and saw STEPHANIE _______: Joran’s “girlfriend” Colombian, Lives in Moko.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 09:05:36 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

She had a body outline marked.  She has a reported on the ground...looked legit.   The also said she was wearing red panties, and the top she was seen in, and she was wearing a sanitary napkin, with blood.   The white shirt that Joran was wearing was thrown over her body, partially covering her torso.

thanks AZ..........

Attorney that has processed cases in Peru, and has been to the prision predicted to be Jorans, said people line up for $50 to cut the throat of prisoners that people want dead.  he said a 15 by 25 foot cell... and i think they said 25 per cell. hole in the floor for bathroom, and a shower once a week. 

ooowwwwww eeeeeee ya know that place gotta SINK!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 09:06:40 PM
The Goon Fled From Aruba

TURBOTHINK Writes: "It appears to me when the Aruba "officials" got wind that the FBI was going to arrest him they tipped him off and he fled the country. The timing is just too coincidental not for that to have happened. They seem to have stayed one step ahead of the FBI throughout this entire case. Of course the FBI does not have jurisdiction there except as Aruba gives them so the officials have to know before anyone is arrested."

This is very likely.

On May 10 the goon receives a payment and wire of, at least $10,000.  On May 14, he is in Peru.  The intervening time?

One can envision the scads of extradition paperwork required and authority transfers needed in order for a foreign police force, like the FBI, to arrive on sovereign soil, to arrest and apprehend a national in his own country.  Of for Aruba's own vaunted police forces to act on behalf of the United States.  (Har, Har)  72 hours?  Some things happen faster, some slower.

Regardless, within 72 hours of receiving a sizeable cash extortion payment, he was on his way to Peru -- a very long trip, indeed.

He was very likely tipped off, or he knew it was time to hit the road, after his "diabolically clever" extortion plot blew up in his face.

That he proceeded to kill -- again -- was unforeseen for sure, by even him.

In the mind of this madman, the dynamics and interplay of numerous motivations likely converged: the fear of his own extortion failing, his poor play at the tables in the Peruvian casino, his current need for money, his long deviant history, the recent death of his father...the lingering and very real anger and bitterness at the Holloway-Twitty family for ruining his life... 

Just a hair trigger waiting to be pulled.  And another girl, alone in the night.  5 years to the day.  Perfect, in the eyes of a psychopath.





In choosing Stephany, little did he know he had just pulled the pin of a hand grenade.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 09:07:55 PM
Did anyone hear NG reporter note that there was a small, white, leather purse with words to the effect of "Love, Peace, Flower Power" on it found in the room?

NG did a decent job this evening. Nice "autopsy-like" drawing of body with labeled wounds.

Also, a fairly descriptive account of items found, body poition, etc in relation to the room.

I just hate when her callers phone in questions...That part kills me...These people must have never, ever followed a lick about this case...WTF???

The international lawyer, from her show, definitely did not paint a pretty picture of the prison he will likely spend time in. WOW !!!

thanks Buckshot.....I might watch the rerun later on..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 09:08:35 PM
Duane "Dog" Chapman said he knows the personality.  Once he killed like that he would have to do it again.  It becomes his DNA.  To assume that he is innocent is kind of sad.  Give him what he wants which is the televisions cameras.  He thinks Joran will confess.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:08:42 PM
Two questions:

(1) Wonder when Joran died his hair? Brown in hotel pics, reddish in capture photos.

(2) NG alluded to the fact that US may have rights on Joran through extortion charges?

Joran spent one night at a hotel somewhere in Chile.  He left alot of his stuff at that hotel.  He is claiming he doesn't remember now where that hotel is.  I suspect it was that night he bleached his hair and eyebrows.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 07, 2010, 09:09:20 PM
Joran van der Sloot has no lawyer
Counsel of the Ministry of Justice reported that Carla Odría no longer assume the defense of the Netherlands citizen, accused of murdering the young Stephany Flores. It is unknown identity and nationality of new counsel

Defense reasons. The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot has no public defender to the investigation into the murder of Stephany Flores (21), daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores, occurred last week.

This was stated by Carla Odría, representative of the Ministry of Justice and who played public defender of European citizens in recent days.

Speaking to elcomercio.pe, Carla said Odría ignore the lawyer's identity and nationality. Reliable sources indicated that it would be Joseph Tacopina, who defended it five years ago by the death of the young American girl Natalee Holloway.

SATURDAY WAS
Odría mentioned that he had the opportunity to talk to Joran van der Sloot on Saturday in the cells of the Dirincri and noticed it quiet.

"I spoke with him in the presence of a police officer for security. I had not told me unhappy, "he said Odria. He noted that the dialogue between the two was possible thanks to the presence of an interpreter. "The translation was in the Netherlands" he said.

Counsel avoided mentioning if the Dutchman proclaimed innocence by "professional secrecy". He noted that the interview did not ask him to call other witnesses.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491188/joran-van-der-sloot-ya-no-tiene-abogado-oficio

I am not understanding this at all???  Is it saying Tacopenis is going to represent him?????

Could be that Joe Tacopina's law firm has an international lawyer who might represent him.

good thinking San.....that might be it!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 07, 2010, 09:10:29 PM
AZSunny,

http://www.livesecure.org/

Here is where you get it................

http://appshopper.com/utilities/silent-bodyguard

Thanks!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 09:10:52 PM
Duane Chapman said his dad (Paulus) dropped dead of a heart attack and this kid (Joran) probably killed him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 09:14:46 PM
Duane Chapman said his dad (Paulus) dropped dead of a heart attack and this kid (Joran) probably killed him.

No doubt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 07, 2010, 09:15:45 PM
Two questions:

(1) Wonder when Joran died his hair? Brown in hotel pics, reddish in capture photos.

(2) NG alluded to the fact that US may have rights on Joran through extortion charges?

Joran spent one night at a hotel somewhere in Chile.  He left alot of his stuff at that hotel.  He is claiming he doesn't remember now where that hotel is.  I suspect it was that night he bleached his hair and eyebrows.

I hope they have found his stuff by now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Buckeye on June 07, 2010, 09:17:10 PM
I hope they examined his whole body.  It wouldn't surprise me if he has a bite mark on his pecker, to go with those scratches.

A bit ironic that if he doesn't say he killed her in a sexual attack, he will face killing her for robbery, which carries a life sentence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Buckeye on June 07, 2010, 09:19:06 PM
Does anyone know if Flores ran against the current political party?  Hope the opposition is not in power.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 09:19:30 PM
I hope they examined his whole body.  It wouldn't surprise me if he has a bite mark on his pecker, to go with those scratches.

A bit ironic that if he doesn't say he killed her in a sexual attack, he will face killing her for robbery, which carries a life sentence.

Who is the unlucky soul that has to measure that? That better pay time and half!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
INPE dismisses as Lurigancho and San Jorge prison Dutchman Van der Sloot

The head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, ruled this afternoon that the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of murdering the young Stephany Flores, will be held in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge, as had been speculated.
 
He said that is the classification board of Lima holding cells that make that decision, based on the assessment that makes the background and the crime he is accused is charged.

Lurigancho explained that it is excluded because it is overcrowded, and there is the commitment of his administration not to send a more internal, while San Jorge also because there are only primary inmates, and van der Sloot is accused of a serious crime like murder.

There are, he said, Castro Castro, Piedras Gordas, but also criminal in Canete or Aucayama Carquin in Huaral, because it can be any criminal department of Lima.

Rabanal referred to the prison once elected, we will take security measures to prevent the Dutchman citizen self harm or be attacked by other inmates.

Workers strike

On the other hand, the holder of INPE Wednesday confirmed that workers in the sector have called for a 24-hour strike.

He said that workers are committed to not leave unattended the shootout, while his administration has taken measures to prevent tampering.


For example, reported that as a day visit Wednesday is female, has previously informed the family that has stepped forward to tomorrow martes.Andina.


http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/117501/31/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 09:32:15 PM
Duane "Dog" Chapman said he knows the personality.  Once he killed like that he would have to do it again.  It becomes his DNA.  To assume that he is innocent is kind of sad.  Give him what he wants which is the televisions cameras.  He thinks Joran will confess.

He`s had that for 5 years. Great thinking, Dog.

Tell me another nursery rhyme, Mother Goose.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 09:33:01 PM
The Goon Fled From Aruba

TURBOTHINK Writes: "It appears to me when the Aruba "officials" got wind that the FBI was going to arrest him they tipped him off and he fled the country. The timing is just too coincidental not for that to have happened. They seem to have stayed one step ahead of the FBI throughout this entire case. Of course the FBI does not have jurisdiction there except as Aruba gives them so the officials have to know before anyone is arrested."

This is very likely.

On May 10 the goon receives a payment and wire of, at least $10,000.  On May 14, he is in Peru.  The intervening time?

One can envision the scads of extradition paperwork required and authority transfers needed in order for a foreign police force, like the FBI, to arrive on sovereign soil, to arrest and apprehend a national in his own country.  Of for Aruba's own vaunted police forces to act on behalf of the United States.  (Har, Har)  72 hours?  Some things happen faster, some slower.

Regardless, within 72 hours of receiving a sizeable cash extortion payment, he was on his way to Peru -- a very long trip, indeed.

He was very likely tipped off, or he knew it was time to hit the road, after his "diabolically clever" extortion plot blew up in his face.

That he proceeded to kill -- again -- was unforeseen for sure, by even him.

In the mind of this madman, the dynamics and interplay of numerous motivations likely converged: the fear of his own extortion failing, his poor play at the tables in the Peruvian casino, his current need for money, his long deviant history, the recent death of his father...the lingering and very real anger and bitterness at the Holloway-Twitty family for ruining his life... 

Just a hair trigger waiting to be pulled.  And another girl, alone in the night.  5 years to the day.  Perfect, in the eyes of a psychopath.






Greta and some of her cronies seem to think the FBI should have nabbed Joran right there on the spot when he took the cahs payment that I believe it was Bo Dietl said of $10K.  But I think they wanted to see if he would actually tell more including more about Natalee.  They had no way of knowing he would kill again so soon.

Maybe they weighed the option of getting more information from him against arresting him on the spot.  In any event, even if they had left to come get him the next day, I don't think they wiuld have found Joran because he was already tipped off and either hiding or off the island.

Greta is just out of line.  She is trying to redeem herself because everyone found out she gave money to Joran for the fake phone tapes of Paulus.


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 09:33:32 PM
A good international lawyer will probably:
(a) Have him remain silent.
(b) Manever offense to lighten possible sentence (Robbery/Murder vs Sexual Attack/Murder)
(c) Negate his fleeing the scene. Fleeing adds negative background to charges
(d) Raise suspicion of a third person (who may represent the Real Killer)
(e) Declare her death an accident, of sorts
(f) Plea bargain whereabouts of NH/details of NH murder, in exchange for leniency.
(g) Muddy the jurisdiction of the case. Strategize his best outcome.
**Can Aruba prosecute his murder first, based on chronology?
**Can US get extradition, based on extortion charges?
**US or Aruba prison(s) would buy him time and safer/better conditions.

Regardless of the above, Joran is in for a long haul. He will not see any sort of freedom in the near future.
He better hope he doesn't end up in Peruvian jail system...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 09:33:38 PM
INPE dismisses as Lurigancho and San Jorge prison Dutchman Van der Sloot

The head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, ruled this afternoon that the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of murdering the young Stephany Flores, will NOT be held in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge, as had been speculated.
 
He said that is the classification board of Lima holding cells that make that decision, based on the assessment that makes the background and the crime he is accused is charged.

Lurigancho explained that it is excluded because it is overcrowded, and there is the commitment of his administration not to send a more internal, while San Jorge also because there are only primary inmates, and van der Sloot is accused of a serious crime like murder.

There are, he said, Castro Castro, Piedras Gordas, but also criminal in Canete or Aucayama Carquin in Huaral, because it can be any criminal department of Lima.

Rabanal referred to the prison once elected, we will take security measures to prevent the Dutchman citizen self harm or be attacked by other inmates.

Workers strike

On the other hand, the holder of INPE Wednesday confirmed that workers in the sector have called for a 24-hour strike.

He said that workers are committed to not leave unattended the shootout, while his administration has taken measures to prevent tampering.


For example, reported that as a day visit Wednesday is female, has previously informed the family that has stepped forward to tomorrow martes.Andina.


http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/117501/31/

This seems contradictory ?? am I not understanding the translation ?? Should the word "NOT" be inserted ??

am I just completely lost...LOL  don't answer that!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 09:38:03 PM
Excuse my manners...

Evening Monkeys ! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Coffee/SSmonkeyguycoffeespill.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 09:39:10 PM
If Aruba was working with FBI, as suggested in latest sting attempt, one thing is as certain as the sun rising tomorrow: JORAN WAS TIPPED OFF.

Of course no one could predict another murder, but I wonder how the FBI feels about their letting him remain free, as opposed to taking him down. I realize that they made a calculated decision. With another life lost, though, someone may be having heartburn for having made that decision..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 07, 2010, 09:42:24 PM
Peru isn't going to let the US have him on the extortion. Didnt we read that ?  From the Peruvian Justice persons ? 
..
Joe Tacopina would need to :
a) send someone who spoke the language
b.) can pratice law in Peru
I can see Taco being his media rep to spread the manure in the American media to get face time, but seriously, ?? I can also see Joe going down there to try to visit him, but he sure can't represent him in Peru. I already know what spin Taco is going to put on it in the media, same as before. 
..
Is Henry Lee packing up spare hairs and booking flights ?
The crime happened on Peruvian soil against a Peruvian citizen. The " suspect "is in Peru. The NL can't go in there and demand that he be treated according to the laws in NL and Joe can't go in there and demand he be treated as an American.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Buckeye on June 07, 2010, 09:45:08 PM
Kock and several of the Aruban attorneys have offices in Colombia. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 09:46:35 PM
Excuse my manners...

Evening Monkeys ! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Coffee/SSmonkeyguycoffeespill.gif)

Hi Sea Searcher!

I`m diggin` the hat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 07, 2010, 09:49:10 PM
Thanks everyone for the comments about my chat room questions during the Steph Watts show.  For those who weren't listening...my questions were not acknowledged by anyone that could have answered them.  

I'd typed a whole big long response about it while the threads were changing, so I lost it.  I'm not typing it all over again!  At least not until after I finish listening to Dana, and take a long hot shower.  

THANK YOU SO MUCH Sleuth for the recap of Steph's show!  

Other than what Dave said, God bless him, I got lost in all the confusion..lol.  Of course when I started reading your transcription it started coming back to me.  I'm going to try to listen to it again later.

I certainly appreciate Steph bringing all the guests on for us to hear, but he could really take some lessons from Dana.

Dana's the BEST!  :monkeyheart:



Try hitting 'backspace' or undo, it might bring what you wrote back up.


Here is what I do when I have a long post.  I type it in Miscrsoft Word and then I copy and paste it in a post.  If the forum all of a sudden isn't working when you go to post it you will still have what you typed in word.  You don't have to save the document in word.  Or if I am typing it in a post before I hit post I highlight it and I say copy.  This way it has my the last thing I copied in memory so I can paste it again.

Exactly what I do as well.  For example, that is what I did with the summary of the Steph Watts program.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
Propose this example:
(1) US citizen murders in California. Unsolved crime.
(2) US citizen murders in Florida. Is then linked back to previous murder, before/during presentation of charges.

In which state does this person do prison time? I do not know the answer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 09:55:59 PM
Allan Rafael doesn't care much for NG (can't blame him).  These photoshops are from his facebook photos. The photos are fake, just for laughs:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4686564&id=508811824#!/profile.php?id=508811824&v=wall

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/AllanRNG.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranNG.jpg)





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on June 07, 2010, 09:56:59 PM
INPE rule out Dutchman accused of killing a young Peruvian woman is detained in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge

Lima (Peru.com) .- The head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, said he still has not defined the prison to be transferred to the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of killing the young Stephany Flores.
 
In a conversation with RPP Noticias, the official explained that the Rating Board is still assessing the situation from abroad, who is detained at the headquarters of the Criminal Investigation Department (DIRINCRI).
 
However, Rodriguez Rabanal van der Sloot denied that he is to be held in San Jorge Lurigancho or so may be a penalty of Lima, but declined to give further details until the board makes a decision.
 
Finally, the head of INPE denied having any contact with the Netherlands Embassy in Peru and will take appropriate precautions to prevent self harm or be attacked by the inmates of the prison to which he is transferred.
 
"At the appropriate time seek a physical space and not to put at risk their physical integrity," he said.


http://www.peru.com/noticias/lima20100607/100962/INPE-descarta-que-holandes-acusado-de-matar-a-joven-peruana-sea-recluido-en-los-penales-de-Lurigancho-y-San-Jorge


if I am reading this correctly the special treatment is in the planning stages as we speak

I too am very worried about the special treatment.  I still believe Anita's family has connections in the Hague.

Another thing,  HOW did NO ONE not hear any of this happening in that room?  The descriptions of the room and the way she was killed it is very hard for me to believe no one heard anything, or is this a common thing that happens in the Hostel? If you notice the windows to the rooms are open so someone inside or even outside had to have heard something.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JusticeDawg on June 07, 2010, 09:57:37 PM
They are now saying she was found with her black shirt and underwear. Doesn't this mean they were some effort for sexual activity between the two?

THE LATEST FROM CNN


(CNN) -- A Peruvian police report leaked Monday says the alleged victim of Joran van der Sloot was found in his hotel room on the floor, half-dressed. The report provides new details about the hours before Stephany Flores' body was found.

Van der Sloot, who was twice arrested in connection with the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005, is in Peruvian custody as a suspect in the killing of Flores, 21.

According to the document, the Hotel Tac, where van der Sloot was staying, received a call from someone looking for him about 11 p.m. June 1. The receptionist forwarded the call, but no one answered. The hotel worker assumed that van der Sloot was asleep because the room key was with him and not the front desk.

About an hour later, according to the police report, the receptionist noticed that van der Sloot owed money for two nights and went up to his room, where her knocks went unanswered. The television was blaring, so the hotel employee figured he was resting, the report says.

Afterward, the hotel supervisor told the employee to go back to van der Sloot's room and enter using a spare key. When the employee went in, she found Flores' body on the floor, dressed in a black T-shirt and red panties, half-covered with a piece of white clothing, the police report said.

Flores was bleeding from her nose, the report said.

The hotel employee became frightened at the sight and went to alert her supervisor and the police, turning off the television and lights on her way out of the room, the report said.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 09:57:52 PM
INPE dismisses as Lurigancho and San Jorge prison Dutchman Van der Sloot

The head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, ruled this afternoon that the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of murdering the young Stephany Flores, will NOT be held in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge, as had been speculated.
 
He said that is the classification board of Lima holding cells that make that decision, based on the assessment that makes the background and the crime he is accused is charged.

Lurigancho explained that it is excluded because it is overcrowded, and there is the commitment of his administration not to send a more internal, while San Jorge also because there are only primary inmates, and van der Sloot is accused of a serious crime like murder.

There are, he said, Castro Castro, Piedras Gordas, but also criminal in Canete or Aucayama Carquin in Huaral, because it can be any criminal department of Lima.

Rabanal referred to the prison once elected, we will take security measures to prevent the Dutchman citizen self harm or be attacked by other inmates.

Workers strike

On the other hand, the holder of INPE Wednesday confirmed that workers in the sector have called for a 24-hour strike.

He said that workers are committed to not leave unattended the shootout, while his administration has taken measures to prevent tampering.


For example, reported that as a day visit Wednesday is female, has previously informed the family that has stepped forward to tomorrow martes.Andina.


http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/117501/31/

This seems contradictory ?? am I not understanding the translation ?? Should the word "NOT" be inserted ??

am I just completely lost...LOL  don't answer that!

He will NOT be going to  Lurigancho and San Jorge prisons.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 10:01:21 PM
Excuse my manners...

Evening Monkeys ! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Coffee/SSmonkeyguycoffeespill.gif)

Hi Sea Searcher!

I`m diggin` the hat.

Hi carpe !!!

It's nice to see so many Monkeys again...I don't get much chance to visit like I use to.

What happened to all our Monkey emoticons ??? (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Monkey%20Em/tongue_ma1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:06:32 PM
Police

Irrefutable evidence
Van Der Soot with counsel

Lima, Monday, June 7, 2010

Comment

The Netherlands Embassy stated that it will provide financial assistance to the young man accused of murdering Stephany Flores in a hotel in Miraflores.

The Dutchman is held in the lockup of the Division of Criminal Investigation since last Saturday after his arrival from Chile, where he was captured.

Interior Minister Octavio Salazar was in charge of submission to the national and foreign press, and despite the cameras, Joran Van Der Sloot remained imperturbable.

Some shamans or witches in the door of the DIRINCRI performed some rituals to force the detainee to confess the crime ..

http://www.americatv.com.pe/noticias%5Clanoticia.asp?id_video=393


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 10:07:28 PM


He will NOT be going to  Lurigancho and San Jorge prisons.

Thanks...I always get frustrated with these foreign report translations, especially babblefish or what ever it's called...

King's English Please !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 10:07:51 PM
Michael Griffith the attorney in the case that became Midnight Express.

He has been in prisons in over two dozen countries.  The prison he is going to be in is the worst.  There is a dormitary group called the shining path.  There are 35 prisoners to a room.  He said when he was visiting a client there a prisoner was stabbed withing 10 feet from him.  He said if someone wanted to get to this man these people have nothing and for $50.00 they will kill Joran.
hmmm, checking cash on hand...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 10:09:24 PM
INPE rule out Dutchman accused of killing a young Peruvian woman is detained in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge

Lima (Peru.com) .- The head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, said he still has not defined the prison to be transferred to the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of killing the young Stephany Flores.
 
In a conversation with RPP Noticias, the official explained that the Rating Board is still assessing the situation from abroad, who is detained at the headquarters of the Criminal Investigation Department (DIRINCRI).
 
However, Rodriguez Rabanal van der Sloot denied that he is to be held in San Jorge Lurigancho or so may be a penalty of Lima, but declined to give further details until the board makes a decision.
 
Finally, the head of INPE denied having any contact with the Netherlands Embassy in Peru and will take appropriate precautions to prevent self harm or be attacked by the inmates of the prison to which he is transferred.
 
"At the appropriate time seek a physical space and not to put at risk their physical integrity," he said.


http://www.peru.com/noticias/lima20100607/100962/INPE-descarta-que-holandes-acusado-de-matar-a-joven-peruana-sea-recluido-en-los-penales-de-Lurigancho-y-San-Jorge


if I am reading this correctly the special treatment is in the planning stages as we speak

I too am very worried about the special treatment.  I still believe Anita's family has connections in the Hague.

Another thing,  HOW did NO ONE not hear any of this happening in that room?  The descriptions of the room and the way she was killed it is very hard for me to believe no one heard anything, or is this a common thing that happens in the Hostel? If you notice the windows to the rooms are open so someone inside or even outside had to have heard something.
I think the TV was on and the street  is very noise. If the Hotel is close to the benavides Av. there is a hospital to attend all the emergencies and it is really busy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:11:12 PM
screencaps from NG


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 07, 2010, 10:12:12 PM
Excuse my manners...

Evening Monkeys ! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Coffee/SSmonkeyguycoffeespill.gif)

Howdy Sea Searcher.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:12:41 PM
more


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 07, 2010, 10:13:38 PM
Thank you Northern Rose for those screen captures.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:15:15 PM
Thank you Northern Rose for those screen captures.

I should have resized them, sorry Klaas


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:21:58 PM
more


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 10:23:04 PM
No worries Northern Rose.

So according to this definitely a tennis raquet and shoe?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:23:52 PM
.smaller


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
Excuse my manners...

Evening Monkeys ! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Coffee/SSmonkeyguycoffeespill.gif)

Howdy Sea Searcher.

Hi Snoopy ! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Monkey%20Em/cool_m1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:24:48 PM
No worries Northern Rose.

So according to this definitely a tennis raquet and shoe?
Yup. Those lessons with Paulus really are a beotch for him now


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 10:26:15 PM
.smaller
If everything was a mess in the room and the cigarettes were in the ashtray maybe he smoked cigarettes after he killed Stephany


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 10:30:31 PM
smaller


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 07, 2010, 10:35:09 PM
Wonder who the female was who called to VanderSloot's room?

How stupid could Joran possible be to get captured 2500 miles away with his bloody clothes?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 10:39:57 PM
Duane Chapman said his dad (Paulus) dropped dead of a heart attack and this kid (Joran) probably killed him.

Oh my - I wondered the same thing................if he did something to kill him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 10:42:31 PM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 10:43:24 PM
Duane Chapman said his dad (Paulus) dropped dead of a heart attack and this kid (Joran) probably killed him.

Oh my - I wondered the same thing................if he did something to kill him.

Joran was in Thailand with his father died.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 10:44:28 PM
(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5603/paulusfromthegrave.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 10:44:58 PM
If the netherlands make a request for extradition this request is not automatically honored. The country the prisoner is in has to agree.


*snipped*


The Peruvians will never agree to let him leave.  NEVER.  Her daddy will make sure of that.   

(http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID38737/slideshows/90b9b2a9_dbe8_4570_9bd9_97005a06924f.jpg)


And remember..........

Peruvian police say they expect Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the murder of a Peruvian college student, to be in their custody by this weekend. The victim's father, Ricardo Flores, is a businessman with close ties to the Peruvian police.


The murder of the Peruvian college student has touched the National Police in a particular way. Ricardo Flores, the young woman’s father, is president of the civic committee that supports the police’s internal affairs division. “He is a great man who has always been loyal to the police. We have no doubts that we will solve this case,” says one officer who has worked with Mr. Flores on events organized to help officers in need.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0604/What-Joran-van-der-Sloot-can-expect-from-Peruvian-police

wingnut

Stephany's prominent father is the reason I believe that justice will prevail in a Peruvian court.  It is what country the sentence will be served that has me concerned.

One way or another ... Joran will not be free.  The implication is that "Natalees and Stephanys" are not at risk.

If the Netherlands ever free Joran ... extradiction to the States in regards to the extortion charge is where it is at.

Janet  (Edit- Fix typo.  MB)



It is too high profile of a case.  The eyes of the world are on Peru.  They will not make a deal because of the "soft" message it would send.

wingnut

I sincerely hope you are right.  I wish I coule shake that hinky feeling.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 10:47:39 PM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong

A tennis racquet would most likely have caused the bruises and the way her knees and feet have bruises seems like she was on her knees - maybe trying to fight him off. Breaking of the neck was either brute strength or he could have thrown her and she hit something then slumped down behind the side of the bed - dead.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 10:49:31 PM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong


I think she bruised her feet kicking in self defense. 

I wonder if she was already dead when she was put on the white sheet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 10:51:53 PM
http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6365#joomimg

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6365&Itemid=63)

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6364&Itemid=63)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 10:53:30 PM
http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6365#joomimg

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6365&Itemid=63)

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6364&Itemid=63)




un-effing-believable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 10:53:54 PM
Michael Griffith the attorney in the case that became Midnight Express.

He has been in prisons in over two dozen countries.  The prison he is going to be in is the worst.  There is a dormitary group called the shining path.  There are 35 prisoners to a room.  He said when he was visiting a client there a prisoner was stabbed withing 10 feet from him.  He said if someone wanted to get to this man these people have nothing and for $50.00 they will kill Joran.
hmmm, checking cash on hand...

Oh my gosh.............I was thinking the same thing. ROFL!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 10:55:10 PM
MIP6?

http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6344

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6344&Itemid=63)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 10:57:11 PM
http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6365#joomimg

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6365&Itemid=63)

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6364&Itemid=63)




Well let's not let Joran keep the family from the party!!  That little Zeola child is with him there too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 10:57:29 PM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong


I think she bruised her feet kicking in self defense. 

I wonder if she was already dead when she was put on the white sheet.

Her legs were folded. But they did not say under her. I wonder?

She must have been begging for mercy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 10:58:00 PM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong


I think she bruised her feet kicking in self defense. 

I wonder if she was already dead when she was put on the white sheet.

I was wondering that too...maybe he started to clean up the mess but it was too much..so he just packed his stuff and ran (answer to buckshot too as to why he got caught with so much evidence) no time to think, although in Aruba, others did all the thinking and cleaning for him... IMO

Kermit..I agree with you that it would take an act of brute force, far more than a tennis racquet could inflict, to break someones neck. Thank god this guy is locked up..too bad he wasn't locked up 5 years ago :-(


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 10:58:32 PM
Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 10:59:57 PM
I don't really see Joran being put is the maximum security, less crowded prison as much of favorable treatment because we have read it can take up to two years to ever get to trial.  It would be a national embarrassment for Peru for him not to live to even stand trial.

Let's see where he ends up after he is tried and sentenced.  Now that I would be interested to know.  It didn't bother Peru one bit that Lori Benenson (sp ?) complained globally for years about freezing and no hot water, etc. the whole time she was in one, I think 8 years.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 11:00:49 PM
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9472/markpurcell2009sopranos.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2010, 11:02:27 PM
THIS IS MISTER CLEANS GIRL FRIEND AT NEW YEARS EVE SOPRANO's 2010

(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/74/markpurcellandhisgirlfr.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:02:44 PM
http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6365#joomimg

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6365&Itemid=63)

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6364&Itemid=63)



bump

I just can`t believe it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 11:03:32 PM
MIP6?

http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6344

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6344&Itemid=63)


The Walrus has lost a little weight.  The divorce must have been hard on him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 11:03:57 PM
Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.


I wonder what day those were taken.  Please tell me before Joran's latest murder!

Or, looking at it another way--maybe they have really cut Joran lose this time.  I mean, how many people does he have to kill before his family finds it a bit offensive?

Think how devastated most people, normal people, would be if this happened to them that a member of their immediate family was thought to have done something so horrific!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 07, 2010, 11:04:07 PM
Duane Chapman said his dad (Paulus) dropped dead of a heart attack and this kid (Joran) probably killed him.

Oh my - I wondered the same thing................if he did something to kill him.

Joran was in Thailand with his father died.

I have a feeling the original perp was the father and Joran was a sexual predator in training. I honestly believe and did from day one the father was using Joran to pick up women for him and I also always felt that his wife knew what he did.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 11:06:05 PM
MIP6?

http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6344

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6344&Itemid=63)


The Walrus has lost a little weight.  The divorce must have been hard on him.


Yeah, but the creep factor is even worse!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:07:31 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/confessionssouthbeach5june102.jpg)


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/confessionssouthbeach5june101.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:08:06 PM
In regard to "green" bruises:  a bruise is caused when trauma to an area causes blood to gather at the spot of trauma, initially, the bruise is red for a few minutes; as the blood loses oxygen, the bruise turns blue for a few days; as the blood breaks down, the bruise turns green for a few days and then yellow for a few days before the bruise goes away.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 11:08:29 PM
Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.


I wonder what day those were taken.  Please tell me before Joran's latest murder!

Or, looking at it another way--maybe they have really cut Joran lose this time.  I mean, how many people does he have to kill before his family finds it a bit offensive?

Think how devastated most people, normal people, would be if this happened to them that a member of their immediate family was thought to have done something so horrific!


The paper says that the pictures were made on June 5th.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 11:09:20 PM
Magnolia, Cirrhossis cause weight loss as well, right?  He looks 10 years older than last photo.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: lnichols on June 07, 2010, 11:09:54 PM
Thank you monkeys for all of the great information that you post.  I have not had time to chat today, but have been catching up... Great work.. EVERYONE!!!!  Talk to you all soon... :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 11:11:08 PM
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9472/markpurcell2009sopranos.jpg)



He is such an old weasel.  I wonder if he is still using the roofies to whack off?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 11:11:53 PM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong

A tennis racquet would most likely have caused the bruises and the way her knees and feet have bruises seems like she was on her knees - maybe trying to fight him off. Breaking of the neck was either brute strength or he could have thrown her and she hit something then slumped down behind the side of the bed - dead.


Keep in mind she was dead approximately 2 and a half days before she was found, so I think they are referring to the many colors bruises turn after you get them. I've had those bruises turn green after a couple of days.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 07, 2010, 11:14:31 PM
In regard to "green" bruises:  a bruise is caused when trauma to an area causes blood to gather at the spot of trauma, initially, the bruise is red for a few minutes; as the blood loses oxygen, the bruise turns blue for a few days; as the blood breaks down, the bruise turns green for a few days and then yellow for a few days before the bruise goes away.

Thanks for the explanation....mine just seem to go from purple to yellow...never seen green...

so those may have been the first blows ? knocking her down of maybe dragging her across something hard...just thinking out loud


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
Thank you monkeys for all of the great information that you post.  I have not had time to chat today, but have been catching up... Great work.. EVERYONE!!!!  Talk to you all soon... :-)

g`night lnichols!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong


I think she bruised her feet kicking in self defense. 

I wonder if she was already dead when she was put on the white sheet.

Her legs were folded. But they did not say under her. I wonder?

She must have been begging for mercy.
I think they meant her knees were bent and she was laying on her side, like she crumpled after the final blow was administered.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 11:18:24 PM
Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.

Thanks Klaas, I thought so too.

The ISA graduation was Saturday and it looks like a lot of the seniors went to the Confessions club to party afterward.  Those are the pictures with Valentijn.  He was at the graduation also....didn't see Anita or Sebastian in that group of pics.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:18:26 PM
Here`s how Nancy Grace said she was:

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/6-3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 11:20:11 PM
Here`s how Nancy Grace said she was:

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/6-3.jpg)
Only one cup with coffee residue found.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 07, 2010, 11:20:19 PM
are you watching Nancy Grace...on in pacific time...showing outline of body and beaten body. where bruising occoured

I gave up watching her and when I did I was able to get off my high blood pressure pills.....where did she get the info on the bruises I wonder?  She makes up so much chit!!

She had a body outline marked.  She has a reported on the ground...looked legit.   The also said she was wearing red panties, and the top she was seen in, and she was wearing a sanitary napkin, with blood.   The white shirt that Joran was wearing was thrown over her body, partially covering her torso.

It is so difficult to know which media account reflects the truth.

Janet

+++++++


Posted on Friday, 06.04.10
Moist-eyed Dutch murder suspect interrogated


President Alan Garcia told reporters on Friday that van der Sloot would have to be tried in Stephany Flores' death before any extradition request could be considered.

A college business student less than a year from graduation, Flores was found late Tuesday in the Lima hotel room where van der Sloot had been staying since arriving in Peru on May 14 from Colombia.

She was fully clothed, with multiple bruises and scratches on her body but no signs she had been sexually assaulted, Guardia told the AP.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/04/1663716_p2/dutch-man-sent-to-peru-to-face.html#ixzz0pyeNQjJe




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Searching on June 07, 2010, 11:22:52 PM
Hi monkeys, just want to throw this thought out there... Most ladies do not announce that they are on their monthly, Joran had no way of knowing that Stephany was unless she told him, but since SHE had no intentions of things going there, she would not have had reason.... I believe she was found in her panties because he did intend on raping her, however, she was on her monthly and that is why he did not. I also think that may be what infuriated him to the point of killing her. I think he figured a girl of her standards would not tell anyone she was raped out of fear of being considered dirty.  Just a thought.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:23:38 PM
SeaSearcher, I'm not up on the story about the bruises in this case, but greenish bruises would be older than blue ones.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:24:45 PM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Hat on June 07, 2010, 11:25:06 PM
If Aruba was working with FBI, as suggested in latest sting attempt, one thing is as certain as the sun rising tomorrow: JORAN WAS TIPPED OFF.

Of course no one could predict another murder, but I wonder how the FBI feels about their letting him remain free, as opposed to taking him down. I realize that they made a calculated decision. With another life lost, though, someone may be having heartburn for having made that decision..

This post is hard to disagree with. I don't know what Stefany's family is feeling beyond what was demonstrated by Beth and the Holloway family but as an ******* I can't help feeling...if only, if only.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:25:32 PM
Oh, and "hi" again, Misgivings!  I'm glad you got to see the murderer arrested, too; I'm glad we all have seen it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 11:25:46 PM
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9472/markpurcell2009sopranos.jpg)



One of these things is not like the others.  Can you tell which one it is?  Pleae mark your answer in a No. 2 pencil.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:26:25 PM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores

Wow - now if true - that is what I finally call a bomb shell development.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 11:26:59 PM
Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.

Thanks Klaas, I thought so too.

The ISA graduation was Saturday and it looks like a lot of the seniors went to the Confessions club to party afterward.  Those are the pictures with Valentijn.  He was at the graduation also....didn't see Anita or Sebastian in that group of pics.

I thought it was said he goes to Emerson College in Boston. What college kid goes back to the graduation parties of the high school "babies"? This is a weird family.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 07, 2010, 11:27:10 PM
http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=6365#joomimg

Confessions & South Beach 5 June'10

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6365&Itemid=63)

(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=69&id=6364&Itemid=63)




un-effing-believable.

I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:27:18 PM
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491188/joran-van-der-sloot-ya-no-tiene-abogado-oficio

Through translator:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranAttorneyNo1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:29:20 PM
That is great news, Carpe.  He may as well confess, he's done.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 07, 2010, 11:29:46 PM
Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.

Thanks Klaas, I thought so too.

The ISA graduation was Saturday and it looks like a lot of the seniors went to the Confessions club to party afterward.  Those are the pictures with Valentijn.  He was at the graduation also....didn't see Anita or Sebastian in that group of pics.

I thought it was said he goes to Emerson College in Boston. What college kid goes back to the graduation parties of the high school "babies"? This is a weird family.

Welcome to Aruba!  lol  Believe me he's not the only one...or the oldest one.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:30:06 PM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores

Wow - now if true - that is what I finally call a bomb shell development.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranConfessSteph.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:31:00 PM
Joran Van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
Mon, 07/06/2010 - 22:06
 

 
   . Police sources revealed that the dangerous stranger crying admitted his guilt in the presence of a lawyer fiscaly. So, 48 hours after it was ejecting from Chile, Van der Sloot had no other to admit their heinous crime.

"I did not do it. The girl intruded into my private life, told the boy of 21, who arrived in Peru on 14 May to participate in an international tournament poker.

Thus, the truth broke through and confessed compulsive gambler who confessed anger exploded and broke his neck after the victim without permission cogiera his laptop and found out who was involved in the murder of an American.

"He had no right. And went, I was scared, we discussed and tried to escape. I took the neck and the murderer told ...", hit in his terrifying story.

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-haber-matado-stephany-flores


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:31:11 PM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:34:18 PM
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores

google translator -

The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop
Monday June 7, 2010 - 10:14 pm

(América TV)

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

Tags: Murder , Crimes , Psycho , Serial Murderer , Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez , Joran van der Sloot , Natalee Holloway



Cornelius Cacho Cuckold (Aurelius)
Now, God and justice will take care of you ... pretty boy with diabolical heart.
June 7, 2010 22:19 Report

Your Dad says (soyley)
Assassins
June 7, 2010 22:20 Report

peru.com travel (viajeaperu)
this case the black pairs of armored truck company remittances
June 7, 2010 22:22 Report


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:35:16 PM
That's true, Klaasand.  He won't have anyone to cover-up this crime, though, so he may as well stand by his confession.  He's done either way.  I know everyone holds out hope that he will decide he may as well tell where he put Natalee's body, and have the authorities actually recover it, but he's so mean, psychotic, and spiteful that he will probably withhold that information as it's all the control he has left.  I wonder if they have waterboarding in that country.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 11:35:37 PM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

That's what I was thinking.  He will take it all back tomorrow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:37:26 PM
God Bless you, Stephany Flores!!!!!

You will be an angel with Natalee for eternity.

You`ve earned your wings.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:38:06 PM
He probably will, Magnolia, but that won't do him any good in the final analysis.  He's a guilty, guilty murderer and he's going to be punished for it this time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:38:10 PM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

That's what I was thinking.  He will take it all back tomorrow.

Magnolia - He doesn't have anyone to cover up for him in Peru.  It's over for Joran.  Now, if he was ever a man he needs to fess up about Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:38:46 PM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

That's what I was thinking.  He will take it all back tomorrow.

That was Aruba. This is Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:39:10 PM
That is so sweet, Carpe; and, sadly, so true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 07, 2010, 11:40:15 PM
Hi Monkeys, I just wanted to say hello....and that I'm hoping Joran finally gets what is coming to him....

What a horrible thing to have happened that could have been avoided had the Aruban authorities sone thier jobs 5 years ago!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 07, 2010, 11:40:36 PM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

That's what I was thinking.  He will take it all back tomorrow.

Magnolia - He doesn't have anyone to cover up for him in Peru.  It's over for Joran.  Now, if he was ever a man he needs to fess up about Natalee.

I hope it is on his laptop.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 11:41:38 PM
so she check his lapton when he went to buy coffe? I think that before to use his laptop he or she had to type the password/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:42:52 PM
Hello, Ozziesmom!  You are so right.  They ought to round up everyone involved in that coverup (I don't think they were ever interested in spin control for tourism, they were covering their own involvement) and prosecute them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 07, 2010, 11:46:16 PM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores



Can this be true?  Can anyone translate?  I think it says he confessed and said he killed her because she saw about Natalee on his laptop?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:53:23 PM


http://wireupdate.com/wires/6155/dutchman-joran-van-der-sloot-confesses-to-murdering-peruvian-stephany-flores-over-private-information-2/
 
BNO News twitter
Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confesses to murdering Peruvian Stephany Flores over private information
Tuesday, June 8th, 2010 at 3:31 am | Monica Lawrence | 2 Comments
By Monica Lawrence


LIMA (BNO NEWS) — Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who remains the prime suspect in the disappearance of missing teenager Natalee Holloway, on Monday confessed to murdering a Peruvian woman, police confirmed.

According to police, Van der Sloot killed 21-year-old Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez because she saw ’something’ about Natalee Holloway on his laptop.
 

“I did not want to do it,” Van der Sloot said in his confession. “The girl saw private things. She had no right. I approached her and she was scared,” he continued.

“We discussed it and she tried to escape, and I took her neck and hit her.”

Further details were not immediately released.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:53:50 PM
http://wireupdate.com/wires/6155/dutchman-joran-van-der-sloot-confesses-to-murdering-peruvian-stephany-flores-over-private-information-2/


Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confesses to murdering Peruvian Stephany Flores over private information
Tuesday, June 8th, 2010 at 3:31 am | Monica Lawrence | 2 Comments
By Monica Lawrence

LIMA (BNO NEWS) — Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who remains the prime suspect in the disappearance of missing teenager Natalee Holloway, on Monday confessed to murdering a Peruvian woman, police confirmed.

According to police, Van der Sloot killed 21-year-old Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez because she saw ’something’ about Natalee Holloway on his laptop.

“I did not want to do it,” Van der Sloot said in his confession. “The girl saw private things. She had no right. I approached her and she was scared,” he continued.

“We discussed it and she tried to escape, and I took her neck and hit her.”

Further details were not immediately released.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 07, 2010, 11:53:55 PM
Yes, Anna, and she tried to leave and he broke her neck and hit her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:54:06 PM
Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores before the homicide experts from the National Police and the Attorney General.

The Dutchman admitted that struck citizen Whiplash Stephany Flores to realize that his victim was revising its laptop in which, apparently, kept information about the American girl Natalee Holloway.

This created the backlash of Joran van der Sloot when both were in the hotel room 309 of the TAC of Miraflores, the morning of May 30, reported the news on TV "News America."

According to the confessions they had access to the news, the confessed murderer and Stephany Flores left the Atlantic City casino on Sunday at 5:15 a.m. and twenty minutes later arrived at the hotel lobby.

The report specifies that the acts of violence occurred at 8:11 am when the citizens Netherlands returned to the room after taking a coffee. Seeing Stephany Flores checked his laptop reacted violently slapped her and her fiction, the neck and killed him immediately.

To consummate the murder, Van der Sloot left the hotel at 8:56 am with all their belongings, including laptop which never left on his trip to Chile.

Now the information contained in the laptop is analyzed by the experts of the Division of High Tech Crime Police (Divindat) and then formulate the crowded police actions against citizens in the Netherlands.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 07, 2010, 11:55:00 PM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores



Can this be true?  Can anyone translate?  I think it says he confessed and said he killed her because she saw about Natalee on his laptop?
he got upset because stephany check his laptop when he went for coffe. He got so mad that hit her and broke her neck and she died instantly


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Searching on June 07, 2010, 11:55:36 PM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

That's what I was thinking.  He will take it all back tomorrow.

Magnolia - He doesn't have anyone to cover up for him in Peru.  It's over for Joran.  Now, if he was ever a man he needs to fess up about Natalee.

I hope it is on his laptop.

Apparently, according to his confession of why he murdered Stephany, the truth about Natalee was indeed on his laptop.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 07, 2010, 11:55:36 PM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

Many of us do, Klaas.

(geesh, server temporarily unavailable must know when I want to reply)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:55:59 PM
Police offer press conference tomorrow on the confession of Joran van der Sloot Netherlands


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 07, 2010, 11:56:48 PM
http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-haber-matado-stephany-flores

Joran Van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
Mon, 07/06/2010 - 22:06
Promedio

Police sources revealed that the dangerous stranger crying admitted his guilt in the presence of a prosecutor and a lawyer. So, 48 hours after it was ejecting from Chile, Van der Sloot had no other to admit their heinous crime .

"I did not do it. The girl intruded into my private life, told the boy of 21, who arrived in Peru on 14 May to participate in an international tournament poker.

Thus, the truth broke through and confessed compulsive gambler who confessed anger exploded and broke his neck after the victim without permission cogiera his laptop and found out who was involved in the murder of an American.

"He had no right. And went, I was scared, we discussed and tried to escape. I took the neck and the murderer told ...", hit in his terrifying story.

An experienced Dirincri official who took part in the interrogation revealed that the murderer be true only at 5.30 pm, after repeatedly denying its responsibility for the crime .

Without emargo it remains to ask why not enter the room rented by the killer 309 for cleaning of rigor for three consecutive days?

The receptionist Adely Abad Marchena and eleven workers were suspected until yesterday.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 07, 2010, 11:57:21 PM
What does he have about Natalee on his laptop?  If he confessed on his computer, in a note to himself, or something, can it be proven that he wrote it?  No matter (unless, of course, the truth about where her body can be found is there) because, confession or none, he's done.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 07, 2010, 11:57:56 PM
so she check his lapton when he went to buy coffe? I think that before to use his laptop he or she had to type the password/

"P-S-Y-C-H-O"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 07, 2010, 11:58:11 PM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores
Damn, I ran it through the translator and got the same thing.
What is he up to I wonder?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 07, 2010, 11:59:14 PM
Glenda/Renfro in the "know" as usual: (where is my sarcasm smilie)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaIdiot0060710.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 07, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
Joran Van der Sloot confessed to the crime of Stephany Flores
The Dutchman told authorities that hit Whiplash the daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores after this review of his laptop and discovered the dark past of the subject.

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) confessed to the crime of Stephany Flores (21), daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores, last Sunday at a hotel in Lima's Miraflores district, said the area "America News."

To the police and a prosecutor told foreign Whiplash hit the girl after she reviewed his laptop and discovered the dark past of the subject.

Van der Sloot detail what has happened since the May 30 Miraflores left the Atlantic City casino next to the girl at 05:15 hours.

A few minutes later, the couple arrived at the hotel Tac and 309 entered the room. The Dutchman was treated at the reception of the establishment by Adely Abad.

At 8:10 pm, Van der Sloot went to buy coffee at a service station located on the side of the hotel and a few minutes then returned to his room.

The Dutchman said that upon entering the room found Ramirez Flores background reading on the laptop.

In this situation, she slapped the girl and then
rubbed his neck, which caused the death of women.

Van der Sloot took his things and by averaging the hors 8:56 left the hotel. After hiding the victim's car began to escape to the south.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-ser-autor-del-crimen-de-stephany-flores-noticia_270698.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:00:27 AM
What does he have about Natalee on his laptop?  If he confessed on his computer, in a note to himself, or something, can it be proven that he wrote it?  No matter (unless, of course, the truth about where her body can be found is there) because, confession or none, he's done.
it says that she was checking his lap top. I dont buy it. how she knew his password. Maybe he scared her showing her about natalee's case for her to give him the money was in her bank account?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:00:59 AM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores

Wow - now if true - that is what I finally call a bomb shell development.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranConfessSteph.jpg)
Quick, somebody send this over to RU since they are still talking about the latest Nancy Grace show.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 12:01:12 AM
Maybe the Peruvian interrogation methods are, shall we say, effective. Hmmm. This isn't Daddy bringing in a cell phone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:01:39 AM
This confession doesn't tell us why she was just in her panties.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on June 08, 2010, 12:02:19 AM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

Hey klaas.....I remember it well because I was getting ready to leave for vacation the next morning.He confessed....,we got up and left the next morning and all of the sudden....POOF! No confession
Of course I just dont understand Aruban laws and all.....
Greetings monkeys!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:11:46 AM
MSNBC

 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37542848/ns/world_news-americas/

BREAKING NEWS: Joren van der Sloot confesses in

slaying of Peruvian woman, official tells NBC News


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:12:36 AM
Server going down often, or just me?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:13:22 AM
 BREAKING NEWS:


 http://www.foxnews.com/

Report: Joran van der Sloot Confesses to Killing Peruvian Woman, Official Says


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:13:33 AM
http://www.troymessenger.com/news/2010/jun/07/beth-holloway-speak-lions-forum/

Beth Holloway to speak at Lions’ Forum

By Jaine Treadwell (Contact) | Troy Messenger

Published Monday, June 7, 2010


Troy Messenger on Facebook

Beth Holloway, the mother of Natalee Holloway, the Mountain Brook teenager who disappeared while on a high school graduation trip to Aruba in May 2005, will be the featured speaker at a luncheon on June 12 at Troy University.

The luncheon is an event of the Lions Club of Alabama High School Leadership Forum, June 11-13.

The luncheon will be from 11:45 a.m. until 1 p.m. in the Trojan Center Ballroom. Tickets will be available at the door. The price of the tickets has not been set but will be no more than $10 each.

“Beth Holloway has been on a mission to warn high school and colleges students about the risks of international travel and the importance of being aware of its dangers,” said Angel Carlson, Troy Lions Club president.

“She is traveling around the country promoting her partnership with Investigative Management Group, a Manhattan corporate security firm, in an effort to ensure that parents can sleep easier when their kids go abroad.”

Holloway and IMG recently started “Mayday 360,” which promises to have the resources to intervene immediately at the first sign of trouble overseas.

“Ms. Holloway said that the most important lesson she learned from her awful ordeal was that, when a loved one is in trouble far from home, it’s vital to get bureaucrats to start an emergency response if circumstances demand it,” Carlson said.

That is a key component of what “Mayday 360” plans to offer.

The Alabama Lions Club hopes to encourage, motivate, and empower young people to return to their communities from the Forum as advocates for positive change and service through understanding and action based on effective, ethical and compassionate leadership.

“Ms. Holloway’s presentation is one way that the Forum will encourage participating students to be advocates for positive change that will protect young people when they travel abroad and make them aware of the dangers that exists even when traveling here at home,” Carlson said.

“The Forum is also designed to help students build relationships and to provide them with opportunities to network with other leaders, both youth and adult.”

Both the Troy Lions Club and the Troy University Lions Club are participating in the 2010 Lions Club of Alabama High School Leadership Forum.

“We are proud to have Ms. Holloway speak at the luncheon,” Carlson said. “We invite parents and young people to attend.”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:14:14 AM
Server going down often, or just me?

Me too! It`s maddening.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:14:35 AM
Dutchman who was arrested in Chile as a young man confesses to murder Van der Sloot peruanaJoran recognized the Peruvian police and the prosecution of the crime of Stephany Flores. He said he committed the act because the victim revised personal data on your laptop.

SANTIAGO .- The Netherlands citizen Joran van der Sloot confessed tonight have made the crime of the Peruvian university Stephany Flores, daughter of a prominent businessman from the neighboring country.

As indicated by the official website of the newspaper "El Comercio", Van der Sloot told the police and prosecutors who allegedly committed the act after the victim had sought to review their personal data contained on a laptop computer.

The Dutchman citizen whose neck was broken, he finally confessed to Flores, after realizing that the victim checked his laptop, which indicate the Peruvian media, kept information on the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway.

The incident occurred when both were in the hotel room 309 of the TAC. He said the date was May 30.

According to the confession, the murderer and Flores left the Atlantic City casino about 05:00 am local, and twenty minutes later arrived at the hotel lobby.

The report stated that the violence was generated at 8:11 AM. Van der Sloot when returning to the room after having gone to drink coffee.

Seeing Flores checked his PC, he reacted violently, and then he slapped her fiction, the neck and killed him.

After the fact, Van der Sloot left the hotel at 8:56 am, embarking on trip to Chile.

Expertise in the Division of High Tech Crime Police (Divindat) are reviewing the content carried Dutchman on your PC.

http://www.emol.com/noticias/internacional/detalle/detallenoticias.asp?idnoticia=417706&utm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:15:14 AM
Server going down often, or just me?

It's going down often.  The forum right now is set to go down for a short period if we get too much traffic.  It will clear itself up and then the forum will come back up.  The idea is to alleviate being down for long periods of time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:15:37 AM
Server going down often, or just me?

Me too! It`s maddening.

Tell me about it.  It's maddening to me as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 12:16:08 AM
Could stephany have known exactly who he was and got him engaged in a poker game or something on line, asked him to go for coffee and while he was out, searched his computer and got caught?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 12:16:22 AM
Please, please, God, let this latest news be true, I know it is a long shot.  If the info we need to find Natalee is on that computer, it would be a true miracle.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 12:17:29 AM
Well, he sure had something on there he didn't want seen.  If it was alrady on, she wouldn't need the password.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: sleddogs on June 08, 2010, 12:17:29 AM
Server going down often, or just me?

It's all those darned Day Monkeys that are up past their bedtime.

SETTLE DOWN & GO TO SLEEP!!!

lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:17:39 AM
Also, she was subjected to a lot of trauma for his anger.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:17:47 AM
Could stephany have known exactly who he was and got him engaged in a poker game or something on line, asked him to go for coffee and while he was out, searched his computer and got caught?

Yes, that's possible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:18:19 AM
probably an email as to where Natalee was buried  was seen


see, better for joran to kill her because IF she were able to tell the police what she saw in the email then his goose was cooked so he figured  in his demented way to kill her take the laptop and try to  escape...


Evil ??   yes   but we already knew that



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:18:48 AM
Please, please, God, let this latest news be true, I know it is a long shot.  If the info we need to find Natalee is on that computer, it would be a true miracle.

Yes wouldn't that be something?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:19:10 AM
And he was so calm leaving the room!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 12:19:25 AM
Took the Peruvian police 48 hours to crack The Delicious Sporter.

I hope Aruba takes note of that.  We have always said he would never stand up to REAL interrogation and not just that pap from Uncle Jan and Uncle Dennis!

Wow!  Just wow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 12:19:49 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37542848/ns/world_news-americas/

Van der Sloot confesses to Peru slaying
Paper reports suspect lost his temper after victim grabbed laptop
   
Video

NBC News and news services
updated 7 minutes ago

LIMA, Peru - A high-ranking Peruvian government official confirmed to NBC News Monday night that Joran van der Sloot confessed to the slaying of a 21-year-old Lima woman.

According to La Republica newspaper, he said that his anger exploded and he broke Stephany Flores' neck after she grabbed his laptop without his permission, and found out that he was involved in the disappearance of an American woman.

The paper quoted Van der Sloot as saying, "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."

The Dutchman, who is also the prime suspect in U.S. teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba, is being held in a seventh-floor cell with a bunk bed and blanket and gets three hot meals a day, said Maj. Jose Gamboa, spokesman for the Peruvian national police.

Van der Sloot is suspected in the May 30 killing — five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance — of Flores, a business student who police say he met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video Saturday taken by security cameras at the hotel where van der Sloot had been staying since arriving from Colombia on May 14. It shows the two entering van der Sloot's room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

The woman's battered body was found on the room's floor more than two days later, her neck broken. Van der Sloot had by then crossed into Chile, where he was arrested Thursday.

In video taken of the husky 22-year-old Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police search van der Sloot's belongings in his presence.

They pull out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency. Van der Sloot tells police the money includes Thai, Cambodian and Bolivian currency. He is asked for credit cards and documents and appears to say — his Spanish is very rudimentary — that they are in a hotel room back in Chile.

Earlier, Peru's chief homicide investigator, Col. Miguel Canlla, would neither confirm nor deny a Sunday report in the Lima newspaper El Comercio that van der Sloot told his Peruvian questioners he was innocent of the Flores killing.

"I don't know where that information came from," Canlla told The Associated Press. "We are still in the investigative stage."

Chilean police said earlier that van der Sloot declared himself innocent in the Lima slaying but acknowledged having met Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning.

Until he hires his own counsel, "the guys prosecuting him will decide which attorney he's going to get," van der Sloot's U.S. attorney, Joseph Tacopina, told the AP.

Tacopina said the suspect's family "is trying to find competent counsel."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
I can't help it...I think there was more to it than this...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:20:46 AM
JoÚLTIMO MINUTE: Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
The Dutchman citizen recognized the crime to the police and the prosecution. The killing was because his victim reviewing data from your laptop

Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime of the young college Stephany Flores to the experts of the Police and the Public Ministry.

More soon ...

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491307/ultimo-minuto-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-asesinado-stephany-flores

Wow - now if true - that is what I finally call a bomb shell development.
I wonder if he thinks he can say he was lying tomorrow?
Anyway, whoever suggested that Stephany was possibly alive when Joran went out for coffee might be right. He might have left her sleeping, thus explaining why she was in her underwear when found, and He came back to find Stephany on his laptop and flew into a violent rage after she confronted him about Natalee.
If he really did confess, I believe it was because he was promised something very sweet in exchange for it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:20:51 AM
Confession Joran van der Sloot would seek to evade a prison sentence longer than 20 years
Having a motive in the murder of Stephany Flores, the Dutchman was a manslaughter charge against him and have a maximum penalty of 20 years, said lawyer Mario Amoretti

With the confession of Joran van der Sloot on the murder of the young Stephany Flores, the crime of which he would be the murder charge against simple and unskilled, for his statement and there is a motive for the crime and cases are finished, which is what best for you.

This is considered a criminal defense lawyer Mario Amoretti, who explained that in this context, the Dutchman welcomes the sincere confession, which would have a term of between 6 and 20 years in prison.

"I looked for a phone, and looked for a reason why he killed her (Stephany Flores), because a homicide by ferocity is what is known as a" kill for pleasure "for no reason, no mobile" he said in dialogue with the radio station RPP.

However, the criminal lawyer said that Van der Sloot will have to prove their claims, for what should determine whether your computer has been tampered with during his time with Stephany Flores. This will check if it is not an alibi of the accused.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491310/confesion-joran-van-der-sloot-buscaria-evadir-pena-carcel-mayor-20-anos


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:21:35 AM
Glenda can just put a sock in it; for her information, nobody needs his confession; he's guilty, he will be convicted, and he will be punished.  She ought to be making a confession herself, as should everyone else on that island who participated in the cover-up in Natalee's case.  The innocent citizens of Aruba ought to start demanding justice right now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:21:55 AM
yep, and you can bet he cracked in to several people,  mother and father and teacher and police

BUT, they decided to CODDLE him


i hate them all



Took the Peruvian police 48 hours to crack The Delicious Sporter.

I hope Aruba takes note of that.  We have always said he would never stand up to REAL interrogation and not just that pap from Uncle Jan and Uncle Dennis!

Wow!  Just wow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:22:06 AM
In the video where she is getting in the hotel with the monster, I think that she puts something in her front pocket, ca be possible her cellphone? because she could serch for him in his Iphone and find a lot of his terrible life.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 08, 2010, 12:22:14 AM
unbelievable!! I can't see him leaving evidence on his computer for anyone to see, but then again, you never know


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 12:22:31 AM
What does he have about Natalee on his laptop?  If he confessed on his computer, in a note to himself, or something, can it be proven that he wrote it?  No matter (unless, of course, the truth about where her body can be found is there) because, confession or none, he's done.

You know,all of it could have been on there and she read it so he had to kill her too. There may be others on there also.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:23:09 AM
I am reading from peruvian comments that he may pay only 10 years for confess the crime..I hope is not true


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:23:42 AM
Took the Peruvian police 48 hours to crack The Delicious Sporter.

I hope Aruba takes note of that.  We have always said he would never stand up to REAL interrogation and not just that pap from Uncle Jan and Uncle Dennis!

Wow!  Just wow.

In Aruba, he was detained on June 9th, 2005 and confessed on June 10/11, 2005.  Joran is weak and his father knew it.  They protected Joran and covered for him.  Nobody left to protect him now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: yuknomenot on June 08, 2010, 12:24:02 AM
The psycho freak of nature is up to something, but what.  I thought I read earlier that he'd dismissed the Peruvian lawyer he was provided.  If that is true, then could he be attempting to work the system, hoping his confession will be thrown out because he had no legal counsel.  We need more information and we need it now :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:24:15 AM
he will be dead within 1 month of being in prison




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 08, 2010, 12:24:34 AM
probably an email as to where Natalee was buried  was seen


see, better for joran to kill her because IF she were able to tell the police what she saw in the email then his goose was cooked so he figured  in his demented way to kill her take the laptop and try to  escape...


Evil ??   yes   but we already knew that



Makes me wonder what they might have discussed while playing poker....if she knew who he was, he may have given enough info for her to make that move to check his laptop.  We'll never know for sure...it will be his word...which is ca ca (sp)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:25:26 AM
The psycho freak of nature is up to something, but what.  I thought I read earlier that he'd dismissed the Peruvian lawyer he was provided.  If that is true, then could he be attempting to work the system, hoping his confession will be thrown out because he had no legal counsel.  We need more information and we need it now :)
I think his peruvian laeyer was present


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:26:35 AM
I love this. Found on the Stephany Flores Ramirez and Joran Van der Sloot Case Facebook page;

 Luisa Kay Reyes  P.S. I think everyone should boycott Aruba and vacation in Peru instead!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:26:39 AM
I don't think it matters if he gets 10, 20 or 30 years.  I believe he'll be dead long before that.  But on the chance he's not, then he could be brought to the US on the extortion charges.  Not to mention if he admits to killing Natalee he could get another 6 months in Aruba (rolling eyes)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:26:51 AM
He's a compulsive liar; for all anybody knows he made up the whole story about her looking at his computer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 12:27:22 AM
Call me cynical, but if the Peruvian authorities say he confessed, then he confessed. Same way that the Aruba authorities said he didn't? -- who cares. Taking care of business.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:27:38 AM
Where's mommy?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:28:35 AM
What does he have about Natalee on his laptop?  If he confessed on his computer, in a note to himself, or something, can it be proven that he wrote it?  No matter (unless, of course, the truth about where her body can be found is there) because, confession or none, he's done.
It said, "and found out who was involved in the murder of an American."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:29:23 AM
PortValerie, I agree with you about the integrity of the Peruvian authorities, but that doesn't mean he told them the truth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: sleddogs on June 08, 2010, 12:29:38 AM
The Peruvian Police must have used Klaas's jumper cables.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: yuknomenot on June 08, 2010, 12:29:45 AM
The psycho freak of nature is up to something, but what.  I thought I read earlier that he'd dismissed the Peruvian lawyer he was provided.  If that is true, then could he be attempting to work the system, hoping his confession will be thrown out because he had no legal counsel.  We need more information and we need it now :)
I think his peruvian laeyer was present
Thanks and I hope you're right!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:29:59 AM
Glenda/Renfro in the "know" as usual: (where is my sarcasm smilie)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaIdiot0060710.jpg)
Damn, besides being stupid, she can't read either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SuzieQ on June 08, 2010, 12:30:14 AM
I wonder if they have told him that he will be extradited to Alabama after he serves his sentence there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:30:19 AM
Van der Sloot confesses to Peru slaying
Paper reports suspect lost his temper after victim grabbed laptop   Video


NBC News and news services
updated 12:10 a.m. ET June 8, 2010

LIMA, Peru - A high-ranking Peruvian government official confirmed to NBC News Monday night that Joran van der Sloot confessed to the slaying of a 21-year-old Lima woman.

According to La Republica newspaper, he said that his anger exploded and he broke Stephany Flores' neck after she grabbed his laptop without his permission, and found out that he was involved in the disappearance of an American woman.

The paper quoted Van der Sloot as saying, "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37542848/ns/world_news-americas/
----

...and of course, by private life, he means she was intruding on Natalee info.

Whom he beat the heck out of, most probably, and SHE has been this slug`s

meal ticket for the past 5 years.

Such a nice boy, Anita!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:30:33 AM
I mean, of course, that any confession he makes would be rightfully a confession of his guilt--just that no one can really believe his reasons, excuses, story, details, etc.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:30:48 AM
The psycho freak of nature is up to something, but what.  I thought I read earlier that he'd dismissed the Peruvian lawyer he was provided.  If that is true, then could he be attempting to work the system, hoping his confession will be thrown out because he had no legal counsel.  We need more information and we need it now :)
I think his peruvian laeyer was present
Thanks and I hope you're right!
In el comercio says that was the police and the fisco not his lawyer. buuuu


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:31:37 AM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/joranbrk_20100608_002546.jpg)

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08/report-van-der-sloot-confesses-peru-murder/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 12:31:45 AM
I am reading from peruvian comments that he may pay only 10 years for confess the crime..I hope is not true


He won't survive 10 years in a Peruvian prison but if by chance he should. then he comes to the U.S. and faces 30 + 25 on Two Counts of extortion.  Federal, too, not state.

I'm OK with that!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:31:47 AM
Where's mommy?

Too busy framing her Richard Gere picture to paddle her butt over to Peru?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:31:53 AM
CNN just got on it.

Authorities say suspect Joran van der Sloot has confessed to the murder of a Peruvian woman, CNN reports.

http://www.cnn.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:32:14 AM
Well i believe that stephany's fingerprints must be on his laptop


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:32:29 AM
Somehow the spin is going to be because Beth ruined his life.

So still doesn't explain the fact that he did this on the anniversary.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:33:11 AM
OK, what is wrong with this picture?  Possibly 10 years for murder vs. 20-30 years for extortion? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: billb's daughter on June 08, 2010, 12:33:20 AM
The Dutch have about as much pull in Peru as Sponge Bob Square Pants.

THE DAYS OF MORTA ARE OVER.

They had multiple chances to send him to an NL or Aruba kindergarten play house.

EPIC FAIL.

Choices have consequences. Sometimes they are fatal.
Still catching up...but gotta say this is Truth!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 12:33:21 AM
Hi everyone -

Been reading here on and off since I was heavily into the case back in 2005/2006, when I was a frequent poster.

I'm so glad there's finally going to be some sort of closure for the Holloway family, though hopefully they'll have Natalee's remains found someday. Apart from that, I pray that they find peace and that Beth continues to speak out and make a difference in the world.

I wanted to post here a few days ago after having read another hit piece... on Beth... featuring Aruba's own JULIA RENFRO as the likely pitchwoman for the article and the one providing the bulk of the commentary. 

In it, she, as is her custom, blamed Beth Holloway for the 'investigation' problems in Aruba. (As if one grieving mother can cause dozens of allegedly professional policemen and detectives to stop doing the work for which they are trained.). From Julia's early days, justifying the arrest of the two black security guards, lying to the media on numerous occasions (van der Straaten is not connected to Paulus, was one she perpetrated on this message board, posting as "Bondia").  Relentlessly spinning the media, blaming the vicitms family for Aruba's apparent corruption and incompetence.

What I've never understood is what goal she hoped to achieve? Had she just said, "Aruban police are working on it, we grieve for the familly" - that would have been sufficient. If she felt Beth's push for people to boycott Aruba in the face of constant stonewalling, lies, inaction, destroyed evidence - well, she could have said, "We understand that Beth is  distraught, but we wish to remind everyone that the Aruban people are not behind the police investigation and we, who make our living in tourism don't want to be part of that".. Well, OK, that would have been fine too.

Instead, she became a stuanch advocate of Joran and the van der Sloot family, posting hundreds of times on Refugees Unleashed, and participating in the most horrible, disgusting, vile and childish insults of a mother who is trying to find closure on her daughters murder.

As one person posted on RU, Julia Renfro is an embarassment to Aruba and she is a sad person.  I think most of us would agree with that, but I sstill do not understand why Aruba would have her on woldwide TV programs and in print that reaches millions - bashing Beth Holloway.

There are some images that I'll never forget from Arbua. One of those is Steve Cohen - Aruba's then 'fireman' for tourism. There were photos of him celebrating Joran's release from KIA prison along with Joran, Paulus and Anita. It is unfathomable to me that a mouthpiece for Aruban tourism would align himself with and be photographed celebrating the release of someone who was at that time, still a suspect in the murder of a tourist.

Does someone have the larger versions of those photos? I would like to do a split screen of Steve Cohen cheering on Joran's release with the photo of Peru marching Joran (who was at that time, a suspect), to make a visual point about what is wrong with Aruba's tourism people and how misguided they are in their approach. An approach which in my opinion was part of a calculated plan to blame the victim and her family, assume no responsibility, and hope that tourism remained unaffected.

Well with Joran's confession, some of Aruba's problems will go away, but I would like there to be some record of the damage and pain that Julia Renfro caused and how horribly the Holoway family was treated.

The photo of Cohen outside KIA should be posted as a reminder.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 08, 2010, 12:33:52 AM
PortValerie, I agree with you about the integrity of the Peruvian authorities, but that doesn't mean he told them the truth.

He's definitely a big, fat, f***n LIAR.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 12:34:02 AM
PortValerie, I agree with you about the integrity of the Peruvian authorities, but that doesn't mean he told them the truth.

I was trying to make exactly the opposite point. It doesn't matter whether he REALLY confessed, or, if so, what he REALLY said: If that is the story that the Peruvian authorities wish to put out there, then so be it.

They might very well want this whole story, and the US media, to go away. The last thing they need is a bunch of humanitarians worldwide to decide to improve their prisons.

BTW, Hillary Clinton is in Peru today but can't get a headline cuz of this creep-oid.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:35:25 AM
CBS News just grabbed it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/


Wire: Van Der Sloot Confesses to Flores Killing


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:37:12 AM
Well, I don't want their prisons improved, either, while he's in one.

As for Hillary Clinton, well y'all may all quote me, really:  the current president makes me, a real Republican, nostalgic for the Clintons.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 12:37:27 AM
Glenda please just shut the hell up.  You're givin me a headache.  Joran is lying in MHO.  Oh he killed her, but this confession will get him a lighter sentence.  Not that it matters because where he is going, 1 year or 100 he's gonna get messed up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Searching on June 08, 2010, 12:37:43 AM
unbelievable!! I can't see him leaving evidence on his computer for anyone to see, but then again, you never know

I think it was for he himself to see..mementos of some sort.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:37:57 AM
Anyone see the news make it to the Netherlands yet?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:38:48 AM
Maybe it won't get him a lighter sentence; did anyone say they'd given him a deal?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:39:29 AM
Anyone see the news make it to the Netherlands yet?
maybe before to go for coffe he was trying to see what the media said for the 5 year anniversary of Natalee's dead and left the computer on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 08, 2010, 12:39:48 AM
Maybe it won't get him a lighter sentence; did anyone say they'd given him a deal?

The world is watching....they better not!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 08, 2010, 12:40:16 AM
Texas Rick.....if the picture you are looking for isn't in our archives, I'm sure someone will have it.  I have it in mind, just not on my compuiter.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:40:21 AM
he will be dead within 1 month of being in prison



I doubt if it will take that long, given the notoriety of the suspect.
Thank God, officials have that same laptop that caused our dear sporter to show his true colors.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:40:32 AM
Maybe it won't get him a lighter sentence; did anyone say they'd given him a deal?

The world is watching....they better not!!!
I dont think that peru will make a deal with him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:40:47 AM
That's a good point, Cecilita.  He's so narcissistic he probably did just that.  Murderers are noted for following their crimes, as well as returning to the crime scene.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:40:47 AM
delicious sporter will take on a new meaning in PRISON


hahahahahahahahhhhh


up NEXT     K2  beware people will be coming to get you





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 12:41:27 AM
Hillary Clinton in Peru or Joran van der Sloot in Peru. What's the bigger story?

by Teresa Puente on 06.07.10 at 2:56 PM | no comments

Teresa Puente is a journalist and blogger. She is on the journalism faculty at Columbia College Chicago and is editor and publisher of Latina Voices. Follow on:

    * Facebook
    * Twitter


U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Peru.



[U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton meets Peruvian President Alan Garcia. Photo from the State Department.]

Unfortunately, the detention of Joran van der Sloot, the leading suspect in the 2005 murder of  Natalee Holloway, now suspected of killing a Peruvian woman, Stephany Flores, is garnering bigger headlines.

Foreign policy isn't as sexy as murder and intrigue. But it is arguably more important.

Clinton is attending the Organization of American States General Assembly in Lima. While there, she urged member states to readmit Honduras to the OAS.

That country was kicked out after the coup last year that ousted President Manuel Zelaya. He is in exile in the Dominican Republic.

"Now it is time for the hemisphere as a whole to move forward and welcome Honduras back into the inter-American community," Clinton said according to the Dow Jones News Service.

"It [Honduras] has demonstrated a strong and consistent commitment to democratic governance and constitutional order," she added.

I don't agree with Clinton. Whether you agree or disagree with Zelaya's policies, he was democratically elected.

I think he should be allowed to return and serve out his term.

But Honduras has already moved forward and held elections after Zelaya's ouster. But one can question whether that was legitimate.

If we allow Honduras to get away with a coup, then how can we defend democracy in the rest of the world?

It's hypocritical. And Clinton and the Obama Administration should know better.

Also in Peru this morning, Clinton praised that country for policies to reduce poverty, crime and combat drug trafficking. She met with Peruvian President Alan Garcia.

"The United States and Peru are working together to provide security for people and as President Garcia has discussed, that is security in their home, on the streets from crime, from drug traffickers and other threats," she said according to a story by the Andina news agency.

Clinton continues her tour of Latin America and will travel to Ecuador and Colombia. She will end her trip in Barbados where she will meet with leaders of Caribbean nations.

Hopefully, the media will cover her trip more than murder and mayhem.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:42:17 AM
Again, right on point, robot; I can't believe those Kalpoe brothers aren't volunteering information to some real authorities right now. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 12:42:22 AM
Julia Renfro/Glenda gets owned on her own messageboard. Again.

What a sickening woman! There's a special place in hell for someone that has spent 5 years urinating on the mother of a murdered child... presumably to protect herself from fewer tourists buying whatever crap she sells on the island...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:42:49 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37542848/ns/world_news-americas/

Van der Sloot confesses to Peru slaying
Paper reports suspect lost his temper after victim grabbed laptop

NBC News and news services
updated 29 minutes ago

LIMA, Peru - A high-ranking Peruvian government official confirmed to NBC News Monday night that Joran van der Sloot confessed to the slaying of a 21-year-old Lima woman.

According to La Republica newspaper, he said that his anger exploded and he broke Stephany Flores' neck after she grabbed his laptop without his permission, and found out that he was involved in the disappearance of an American woman.

The paper quoted Van der Sloot as saying, "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."

The Dutchman, who is also the prime suspect in U.S. teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba, is being held in a seventh-floor cell with a bunk bed and blanket and gets three hot meals a day, said Maj. Jose Gamboa, spokesman for the Peruvian national police.

Van der Sloot is suspected in the May 30 killing — five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance — of Flores, a business student who police say he met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video Saturday taken by security cameras at the hotel where van der Sloot had been staying since arriving from Colombia on May 14. It shows the two entering van der Sloot's room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

The woman's battered body was found on the room's floor more than two days later, her neck broken. Van der Sloot had by then crossed into Chile, where he was arrested Thursday.

In video taken of the husky 22-year-old Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police search van der Sloot's belongings in his presence.

They pull out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency. Van der Sloot tells police the money includes Thai, Cambodian and Bolivian currency. He is asked for credit cards and documents and appears to say — his Spanish is very rudimentary — that they are in a hotel room back in Chile.

Earlier, Peru's chief homicide investigator, Col. Miguel Canlla, would neither confirm nor deny a Sunday report in the Lima newspaper El Comercio that van der Sloot told his Peruvian questioners he was innocent of the Flores killing.

"I don't know where that information came from," Canlla told The Associated Press. "We are still in the investigative stage."

Chilean police said earlier that van der Sloot declared himself innocent in the Lima slaying but acknowledged having met Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning.

Until he hires his own counsel, "the guys prosecuting him will decide which attorney he's going to get," van der Sloot's U.S. attorney, Joseph Tacopina, told the AP.

Tacopina said the suspect's family "is trying to find competent counsel."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:43:09 AM
If USA have a pending extradition, the peruvians will keep him alive. They will protect him but I know that maybe once a week will send some guy with big feet to give him some ...you know what i mean :0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 12:43:12 AM
Well, I don't want their prisons improved, either, while he's in one.

As for Hillary Clinton, well y'all may all quote me, really:  the current president makes me, a real Republican, nostalgic for the Clintons.

Me too. Never thought I'd say that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Scandi on June 08, 2010, 12:43:42 AM
Maybe it won't get him a lighter sentence; did anyone say they'd given him a deal?
NO DEAL, eh?  LOL   I guess they got him good in the box and bet he was crying when he confessed,  Big Mongoose whimp.


Thanks to everyone here for the great sleuthing and thoughts posted on this case.  You guys are amazing ;}


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 12:43:46 AM
Why he says he did it doesn't matter--the fact he aadmitted doing it does.

And most places you can't just take back a confession.  In this country, "anything you say can and will be used against you" and the jury decides if it has merit. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:44:30 AM
yep, they must be wondering what he will puking up next

i still think he killed his father........it is in him   PURE 100 PERCENT EVIL
it exists and here he is for the whole world to see


he killed the OTHER person that knew the truth - his own father

mooooooooooooooooooo




Again, right on point, robot; I can't believe those Kalpoe brothers aren't volunteering information to some real authorities right now. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 12:44:37 AM
http://stephww.wordpress.com/

EXCLUSIVE: VAN DER SLOOT’S HAND-DRAWN MAP OF WHERE NATALEE’S BODY IS. DOES “X” MARK THE SPOT??

June 7, 2010 – 2:36 am

Posted in Breaking News, Exclusive, Featured, Murdered, Steph Watts
Tagged Steph Watts, Texas EquuSearch, Tim Miller, Joran Van Der Sloot, Stephany Flores
Comments (1)

I have just received a hand-drawn map that Joran Van Der Sloot drew, indicating where he now claims he disposed of Natalee Holloway’s body.

The map came from “Jaap,” a former friend of Joran Van Der Sloot. Dave Holloway put us in touch. Joran befriended Jaap after he won a reality show in the Netherlands, and a large sum of money. Just like he met Stephany Flores in the Casino in Peru. It’s Van Der Sloot’s MO to befriend people with money. Stephany had won $5,000.00.

Japp produced a documentary on Van Der Sloot, and Van Der Sloot told him yet another version of what happened to Natalee that night. He drew a map, and now I have the map. Because Jaap was in contact with Joran in the midst of the sting operation I mentioned in the last post, his communications were being monitored by the FBI. When Japp contacted me and informed me about the tapes he had, his house was raided that night, and investigators seized Japp’s computers, cell phone and the tapes he shot of Joran. I was able to get the map.

Tim Miller from Texas EquuSearch is here. I have given him the map and he is working on the search as I write this. It’s a stretch but Miller says, “We have to follow every lead, and we can’t afford not to do this.”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 12:45:48 AM
Texas Rick.....if the picture you are looking for isn't in our archives, I'm sure someone will have it.  I have it in mind, just not on my compuiter.

Thanks - there are 2 that I was able to locate on SM, but they were quite small... Steve Cohen with the Sloot family in front of a microphone outside KIA.  Boggles the mind.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 12:45:52 AM
He's a compulsive liar; for all anybody knows he made up the whole story about her looking at his computer.


I'm a couple pages behind still, but I agree with darleen.  He's a lying POS and he's even trying to blame Stephany for it and saying he didn't mean to.  Bullpucky!

I also don't quite believe that she was alive when he left for coffee.  Why were her pants off? 

And I don't believe he's been keeping evidence of his guilt on his laptop either, I hope I'm wrong but I think that's just wishful thinking.

I think he killed her because he's a killer. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 12:46:00 AM
Beth has been so very quite,   I cannot even imagine what she is going through.

Joran will not live to see the outside of that prison, once he enters. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:46:59 AM
Citizen crime against young Dutchman recognized Peruvian
Joran van der Sloot confessed to police experts Lima.

Meanwhile, four police monitored his cell to prevent suicide.

The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime against the Peruvian university Stephany Flores after noticing that the victim was reviewed your computer

It is presumed that he kept in his notebook about the American girl Natalee Holloway, a fact that drew the ire of Van der Sloot as beaten and broken neck, according to his statement.

The beating, according to the Peruvian news "América Noticias", caused the immediate death of Flores.

Meanwhile, four members of the National Police of Peru (PNP) in his cell watching permanently citizen Joran van der Sloot Netherlands to prevent suicide attempt, local media reported.

The young Dutchman remains in a cell in the building of the police investigations (Dirincri) by order of a judge Lima, and also seeks to avoid suffering any attack if sent to a common prison.

Following the disclosure of the death of flowers and launched an arrest warrant, Var der Sloot was arrested in Chile on Friday morning and driven across the border with Peru, where he was received by the Peruvian police.

http://www.cooperativa.cl/ciudadano-holandes-reconocio-crimen-contra-joven-peruana/prontus_nots/2010-06-07/230852.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:47:00 AM
Well, for Glenda's information, it says he's confessed now.  I'll bet it doesn't really have anything to do with his computer, though.  He's such a liar.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 12:47:19 AM
I don't think it matters if he gets 10, 20 or 30 years.  I believe he'll be dead long before that.  But on the chance he's not, then he could be brought to the US on the extortion charges.  Not to mention if he admits to killing Natalee he could get another 6 months in Aruba (rolling eyes)

I agree - it is, IMO, a death sentence for him, no matter what the ruling is.  I doubt he will ever get out alive. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:47:52 AM
hhahaahaha  i hope the DID promise him a deal and then after he confessed  they say

"deal ?  what deal ??  there is no deal  stupid   IDIOT "


hahahahahaahahahahahahaah

im LMAO just thinking about it




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:47:58 AM
Citizen crime against young Dutchman recognized Peruvian
Joran van der Sloot confessed to police experts Lima.

Meanwhile, four police monitored his cell to prevent suicide.

The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime against the Peruvian university Stephany Flores after noticing that the victim was reviewed your computer

It is presumed that he kept in his notebook about the American girl Natalee Holloway, a fact that drew the ire of Van der Sloot as beaten and broken neck, according to his statement.

The beating, according to the Peruvian news "América Noticias", caused the immediate death of Flores.

Meanwhile, four members of the National Police of Peru (PNP) in his cell watching permanently citizen Joran van der Sloot Netherlands to prevent suicide attempt, local media reported.

The young Dutchman remains in a cell in the building of the police investigations (Dirincri) by order of a judge Lima, and also seeks to avoid suffering any attack if sent to a common prison.

Following the disclosure of the death of flowers and launched an arrest warrant, Var der Sloot was arrested in Chile on Friday morning and driven across the border with Peru, where he was received by the Peruvian police.

http://www.cooperativa.cl/ciudadano-holandes-reconocio-crimen-contra-joven-peruana/prontus_nots/2010-06-07/230852.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:48:02 AM
http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-ser-autor-del-crimen-de-stephany-flores-noticia_270698.html

Through translator:

(snipped)

Minutes later, the couple arrived at the hotel Tac and entered the room 309. The Dutchman was treated at the reception of the establishment by Adely Abad.

At 8:10 pm, Van der Sloot went to buy coffee at a service station located on the side of the hotel and a few minutes then returned to his room.

The Dutchman said that upon entering the room found Ramirez Flores background reading on the laptop.

In this situation, she slapped the girl and then rubbed his neck, which caused the death of women.

Van der Sloot took his things and by averaging the hors 8:56 left the hotel. After hiding the victim's car began to escape to the south.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:48:54 AM
Well, for Glenda's information, it says he's confessed now.  I'll bet it doesn't really have anything to do with his computer, though.  He's such a liar.

Plea deal.  Less years in Peru jail.  Probably 20 and then possible parole in 10. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:49:20 AM
Why did this confession come so quickly?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:49:36 AM
Julia Renfro/Glenda gets owned on her own messageboard. Again.

What a sickening woman! There's a special place in hell for someone that has spent 5 years urinating on the mother of a murdered child... presumably to protect herself from fewer tourists buying whatever crap she sells on the island...




Ok, resigned just cracked me up!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:49:47 AM
The question now is, what is on his laptop and will he confess to Natalee as well?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:50:53 AM
resigned   has been bagging and tagging that wench

lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:51:13 AM
Well, for Glenda's information, it says he's confessed now.  I'll bet it doesn't really have anything to do with his computer, though.  He's such a liar.

Plea deal.  Less years in Peru jail.  Probably 20 and then possible parole in 10. 
it can be less than 10 because he can get probation like they did with lori the american terrorist . she just lef the jail a month ago. she had a baby in jail and now she has to stay in peru for 5 years because she got probation


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 12:51:27 AM
Well, for Glenda's information, it says he's confessed now.  I'll bet it doesn't really have anything to do with his computer, though.  He's such a liar.

Cue Julia Renfro: "Beth Holloway was the mastermind behind the extortion trap which put $15,000 into Joran's pocket. Without that money he never would have been able to fly to Peru and no murder would have been committed. Please visit our friendly island..."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:51:41 AM
Why did this confession come so quickly?

Either

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Joranpantsjumpers.jpg)

Or

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranVooDoo.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:52:54 AM
Too funny, Klaas!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:53:20 AM
The question now is, what is on his laptop and will he confess to Natalee as well?
I dont think so, because they got to much evidence in stephany, because he confesed he will wait only 6 months for his trial


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 12:54:10 AM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

Hey klaas.....I remember it well because I was getting ready to leave for vacation the next morning.He confessed....,we got up and left the next morning and all of the sudden....POOF! No confession
Of course I just dont understand Aruban laws and all.....
Greetings monkeys!


I remeber too!  And he was leading the authorities to Natalee's body . . . . which also went poof!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 12:54:14 AM
http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-ser-autor-del-crimen-de-stephany-flores-noticia_270698.html

Through translator:

(snipped)

Minutes later, the couple arrived at the hotel Tac and entered the room 309. The Dutchman was treated at the reception of the establishment by Adely Abad.

At 8:10 pm, Van der Sloot went to buy coffee at a service station located on the side of the hotel and a few minutes then returned to his room.

The Dutchman said that upon entering the room found Ramirez Flores background reading on the laptop.

In this situation, she slapped the girl and then rubbed his neck, which caused the death of women.

Van der Sloot took his things and by averaging the hors 8:56 left the hotel. After hiding the victim's car began to escape to the south.



my translation: slapped the girl and broke her neck.

C`mon Joran, you did more and you know it.

That`s one heck of a reason to kill somebody. (not)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 12:54:53 AM
kill someone in ARUBA      5 years and counting   NO RESULTS


kill someone in PERU      less than 5 days and you are going bye bye





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 12:55:15 AM
He's a compulsive liar; for all anybody knows he made up the whole story about her looking at his computer.


I'm a couple pages behind still, but I agree with darleen.  He's a lying POS and he's even trying to blame Stephany for it and saying he didn't mean to.  Bullpucky!

I also don't quite believe that she was alive when he left for coffee.  Why were her pants off? 

And I don't believe he's been keeping evidence of his guilt on his laptop either, I hope I'm wrong but I think that's just wishful thinking.

I think he killed her because he's a killer. 


I agree Lifesong.  

Everything Joran does is always someone else's fault.  "I didn't want to do it."  BS!

Fortunately whether he had a lawyer present or not, whether this confession stands or not...they've got him and he's not getting out of it this time.

He's toast, and he knows it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 12:55:43 AM
http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-ser-autor-del-crimen-de-stephany-flores-noticia_270698.html

Through translator:

(snipped)

Minutes later, the couple arrived at the hotel Tac and entered the room 309. The Dutchman was treated at the reception of the establishment by Adely Abad.

At 8:10 pm, Van der Sloot went to buy coffee at a service station located on the side of the hotel and a few minutes then returned to his room.

The Dutchman said that upon entering the room found Ramirez Flores background reading on the laptop.

In this situation, she slapped the girl and then rubbed his neck, which caused the death of women.

Van der Sloot took his things and by averaging the hors 8:56 left the hotel. After hiding the victim's car began to escape to the south.



my translation: slapped the girl and broke her neck.

C`mon Joran, you did more and you know it.

That`s one heck of a reason to kill somebody. (not)
sure he only slapped stephany and she got so many bruses all over her body


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 12:56:00 AM
That's a good point, Cecilita.  He's so narcissistic he probably did just that.  Murderers are noted for following their crimes, as well as returning to the crime scene.

But five years later!?!  That's just weird.  And did he have it all over his desktop?  It must have been apparent or how would she know where to look or even what to look for?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:56:29 AM
Well, for Glenda's information, it says he's confessed now.  I'll bet it doesn't really have anything to do with his computer, though.  He's such a liar.

Cue Julia Renfro: "Beth Holloway was the mastermind behind the extortion trap which put $15,000 into Joran's pocket. Without that money he never would have been able to fly to Peru and no murder would have been committed. Please visit our friendly island..."

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaSM060710.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:56:58 AM
I'll bet it doesn't have anything to do with her looking at his computer.  The report said he caught her reading about him being a suspect in Natalee's murder; that's not secret news--everybody knows it.  He's such a liar.  And, I agree with the poster who doubts she was alive when he went for coffee; he didn't leave secret stuff on his computer accessible to her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:57:34 AM
Stephany received $1,000 from her father the day before to buy a laptop. It could have been something as simple as her seeing Joran's while he was buying the coffee and she grabbed it to check out the features, test drive it, stumbled on whatever trophy info or blackmail stuff he had on there and was so shocked in what she had stumbled upon that she did not even hear him when he came back through the door. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 12:57:39 AM
Why did this confession come so quickly?

Peruvian interrogations must be very . . . . persuasive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 12:58:53 AM
If that persuasive, maybe they can keep at it?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 12:59:36 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:00:22 AM
I'll bet it doesn't have anything to do with her looking at his computer.  The report said he caught her reading about him being a suspect in Natalee's murder; that's not secret news--everybody knows it.  He's such a liar.  And, I agree with the poster who doubts she was alive when he went for coffee; he didn't leave secret stuff on his computer accessible to her.

Some one pointed out last night that cable in Peru carries American stations.  There could have been reports of the fifth anniversary of Natalee's death.  Another possiblity.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 01:00:43 AM
Of course, I'm sure she's hanging on every word written over here; although not with comprehension.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:02:00 AM
kill someone in ARUBA      5 years and counting   NO RESULTS


kill someone in PERU      less than 5 days and you are going bye bye





Agreed, Robots my friend.

Joran will not survive this.

He is a little too deep for wader work, at this time. He has done stepped into an elephant pile.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:02:41 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 01:03:04 AM
That's more likely, A's; however, Natalee's story has been world news for the past five years; it's naive to think people don't know he's her murderer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 01:03:26 AM
Joran has confessed to breaking Stephany's neck because she used his computer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:04:21 AM
That's more likely, A's; however, Natalee's story has been world news for the past five years; it's naive to think people don't know he's her murderer.

From our perspective, yes, but a young Peruvian college student might not.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:04:27 AM
I will like to see the video when he go for coffe. He must have different clothes that he wore before to leave the hotel or the same clothes that he wore when he got in to the hotel


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:04:59 AM
He's always blaming the victims.  He's just so disgusting, I don't even have words for it. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 01:05:05 AM
kill someone in ARUBA      5 years and counting   NO RESULTS


kill someone in PERU      less than 5 days and you are going bye bye





Agreed, Robots my friend.

Joran will not survive this.

He is a little too deep for wader work, at this time. He has done stepped into an elephant pile.

Well hell yeah! 

He's confessed, so they ought to send him off to the prison tomorrow and let the butt lovin' begin.

Lets check back in on him in 48 hours and see if he's ready to tell where Natalee is so we can get her home and give her the proper burial she deserves.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 01:05:13 AM
Klaas, start checking AP, fox announced it from NY.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:06:00 AM
I'll bet it doesn't have anything to do with her looking at his computer.  The report said he caught her reading about him being a suspect in Natalee's murder; that's not secret news--everybody knows it.  He's such a liar.  And, I agree with the poster who doubts she was alive when he went for coffee; he didn't leave secret stuff on his computer accessible to her.

Some one pointed out last night that cable in Peru carries American stations.  There could have been reports of the fifth anniversary of Natalee's death.  Another possiblity.
yes CNN. I sont know if the hotel has cale. when I go to peru, i always watch CNN


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:06:10 AM
Of course, I'm sure she's hanging on every word written over here; although not with comprehension.

It seems the word CONFESSED was not in her Hooked-on-Foniks course as it had too may syllables


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 01:06:37 AM
Well, for Glenda's information, it says he's confessed now.  I'll bet it doesn't really have anything to do with his computer, though.  He's such a liar.

Cue Julia Renfro: "Beth Holloway was the mastermind behind the extortion trap which put $15,000 into Joran's pocket. Without that money he never would have been able to fly to Peru and no murder would have been committed. Please visit our friendly island..."

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaSM060710.jpg)

Maybe the Scared Monkeys scared her?  OMG...

Julia aka GLENDA....PUT THE BOTTLE DOWN...RIGHT NOW...YOU CAN DO IT...do it for your children, do it for yourself, do it for ARRUUUUUBAAAAA.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 01:07:38 AM
I give up.  GOING TO BED.  Goodnight, Anna, goodnight, San, goodnight, Spooky.  Goodnight, Klaas.  Wonder if he will withdraw this confession.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 01:07:49 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 

Isn't it nice to watch Glenda/Julia cling to the last little bit of relevance she's ever known?  It's much like watching the wicked witch melt in the wizard of oz.  "i'm mmmmelting...."  hahahaha!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 01:07:57 AM
hhahaahaha  i hope the DID promise him a deal and then after he confessed  they say

"deal ?  what deal ??  there is no deal  stupid   IDIOT "


hahahahahaahahahahahahaah

im LMAO just thinking about it





I was just going to type that, Robots, lol!!!

Except I was going to say:

Deal, Joran?  DEAL????  We don make no steenkin' deals, Joran!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Maggie on June 08, 2010, 01:08:32 AM
I, too, must turn in. Good night all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pinkbanana on June 08, 2010, 01:10:45 AM
I, too, must turn in. Good night all.


Good night Maggie

pb

Ok back to catching up


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:11:39 AM
hhahaahaha  i hope the DID promise him a deal and then after he confessed  they say

"deal ?  what deal ??  there is no deal  stupid   IDIOT "


hahahahahaahahahahahahaah

im LMAO just thinking about it






I was just going to type that, Robots, lol!!!

Except I was going to say:

Deal, Joran?  DEAL????  We don make no steenkin' deals, Joran!

Ha!  I love it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 01:13:17 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 


Nonsense.  There was a BIG poker tournament and he wanted to attend.  He could have just killed somebody in Aruba to get the money.  Maybe even her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: billb's daughter on June 08, 2010, 01:16:50 AM
Joran Van der Sloot confessed to killing Stephany Flores
Mon, 07/06/2010 - 22:06
 

 
   . Police sources revealed that the dangerous stranger crying admitted his guilt in the presence of a lawyer fiscaly. So, 48 hours after it was ejecting from Chile, Van der Sloot had no other to admit their heinous crime.

"I did not do it. The girl intruded into my private life, told the boy of 21, who arrived in Peru on 14 May to participate in an international tournament poker.

Thus, the truth broke through and confessed compulsive gambler who confessed anger exploded and broke his neck after the victim without permission cogiera his laptop and found out who was involved in the murder of an American.

"He had no right. And went, I was scared, we discussed and tried to escape. I took the neck and the murderer told ...", hit in his terrifying story.

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-haber-matado-stephany-flores
victim without permission cogiera his laptop and found out who was involved in the murder of an American
Evidence on urines computer on who was involved in the murder of Natalee?
If this is true.......
cover up crew/OM/LE's ...just to name a few......bend over....you are toast!   hehehe


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:16:54 AM
He's lying again.  He makes it sound like he and Stephany went to his room to hang out like buddies, and he had to kill her to protect people in Aruba who were responsible for Natalee's death.  It's always someone else fault.  Like when he told Anita that if she had been home "this" wouldn't have happened.  He's sending a message to someone that he is keeping his mouth shut about Natalee, and they had better too.  And he is still taunting Beth by reminding her that he knows exactly what happened to Natalee and where she is.

JMHO he took Stephany to his room to rape and rob.  When she resisted he flew into his rage and brutally brutally murdered her.  And I think she was dead within 15 minutes of stepping foot into that room.  POS

He will never take sole responsibility for his actions.

Think about this too.  When a man from the school in Aruba told Viet Vet that Joran had hit Natalee in the head with an aluminum bat maybe that was a translation thing like we first heard with Stephany when it was really a tennis racket that he used to kill Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:17:17 AM
CNN International:

Van der Sloot confesses to murder, Peruvian authorities say
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 8, 2010 -- Updated 0458 GMT (1258 HKT)

Van der Sloot seen in hotel with victim
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Van der Sloot may be formally charged as early as Tuesday
Peru often issues lighter sentence in confessions
Police report says victim Stephany Flores found half-dressed
Hotel receptionist found Flores' body

Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot has confessed to the murder of Stephany Flores Ramirez, Peruvian government authorities said late Monday.

Van der Sloot could be formally charged in the case as early as Tuesday and will likely be held at one of three maximum security prisons -- Castro Castro, Piedras Gordas and Lurigancho, authorities said.

At his first court appearance, the judge may set a hearing date for van der Sloot and could order additional investigations in the case.

The Peruvian justice system often issues a lighter sentence in cases where the suspect confesses. That may have influenced his alleged confession.

There is no death penalty or life sentence in Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 01:17:59 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 

Nonsense.  There was a BIG poker tournament and he wanted to attend.  He could have just killed somebody in Aruba to get the money.  Maybe even her.

You know the truth, I know the truth, but Aruba's main spokesperson for the last five years, JULIA RENFRO, wants you to believe that it was the fault of Beth Holloway that this (second) murder occurred:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:18:26 AM
I give up.  GOING TO BED.  Goodnight, Anna, goodnight, San, goodnight, Spooky.  Goodnight, Klaas.  Wonder if he will withdraw this confession.

Goodnight Tylergal.  It's always good to see you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 01:21:52 AM


Whew. 

I'm still just stunned by the turn of events of this past week.

I pray this leads to the truth about Natalee and the location of her remains.  If she's recoverable, please God, let her come home.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 01:23:05 AM
OK, I went over to the Refugees and had a word with her.  I don't know how to bring it over here, but Glenda has apologized and admitted that Beth is not responsible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:23:11 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 

Nonsense.  There was a BIG poker tournament and he wanted to attend.  He could have just killed somebody in Aruba to get the money.  Maybe even her.

You know the truth, I know the truth, but Aruba's main spokesperson for the last five years, JULIA RENFRO, wants you to believe that it was the fault of Beth Holloway that this (second) murder occurred:


who is Glenda? a monkey? she made a very disgusting comment. I hope that she doesnt have kids ans if she has one I hope that somebody else is looking for that kid


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:23:44 AM
Klaas, start checking AP, fox announced it from NY.

It's everywhere.  CNN, MSNBC, FOX, AP WIRE, PERU


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pinkbanana on June 08, 2010, 01:24:14 AM


Whew. 

I'm still just stunned by the turn of events of this past week.

I pray this leads to the truth about Natalee and the location of her remains.  If she's recoverable, please God, let her come home.




Lifesong, I will pray with you.  monkeyhug


pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:24:20 AM
Glenda writes: "the only way you can delete something from your computer is to burn it or throw it in the ocean" (italics mine)

I guess that is what they do with stuff they want to get rid of over there. . . . just sayin


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:24:55 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 

Nonsense.  There was a BIG poker tournament and he wanted to attend.  He could have just killed somebody in Aruba to get the money.  Maybe even her.

You know the truth, I know the truth, but Aruba's main spokesperson for the last five years, JULIA RENFRO, wants you to believe that it was the fault of Beth Holloway that this (second) murder occurred:


who is Glenda? a monkey? she made a very disgusting comment. I hope that she doesnt have kids ans if she has one I hope that somebody else is looking for that kid

GLENDA = JULIA RENFRO

American Traitor and has been reporter living in Aruba


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 01:25:18 AM
Cecilita, she's a reporter in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:25:29 AM
Glenda writes: "the only way you can delete something from your computer is to burn it or throw it in the ocean" (italics mine)

I guess that is what they do with stuff they want to get rid of over there. . . . just sayin

Good point A's


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:26:15 AM
Cecilita, she's a reporter in Aruba.
it is unbelievable than educated woman can make that kind of comments she should be banned immediately


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:26:16 AM


Whew. 

I'm still just stunned by the turn of events of this past week.

I pray this leads to the truth about Natalee and the location of her remains.  If she's recoverable, please God, let her come home.




It's been shocking.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:26:59 AM
Gosh I wish Peaches was here.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:27:05 AM
Cecilita, she's a reporter in Aruba.
it is unbelievable than educated woman can make that kind of comments she should be banned immediately

I don't think it takes an education to be a reporter or anything else in Aruba. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:27:30 AM
He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:27:35 AM
Gosh I wish Peaches was here.   

Peaches knew before we did (insert winky monkey)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 01:27:44 AM
Maybe it won't get him a lighter sentence; did anyone say they'd given him a deal?

Maybe they told him he could go back to Aruba to serve his sentence............then after recording the confession they said..............

Liar, liar pants on fire......WE LIED............just like you did about Natalie........LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:28:38 AM
Klaas, start checking AP, fox announced it from NY.

It's everywhere.  CNN, MSNBC, FOX, AP WIRE, PERU

AP - via feed at Houston Chronicle

Police: Dutchman confesses to killing Peru woman
© 2010 The Associated Press
June 8, 2010, 12:19AM

LIMA, Peru — Peruvian police say the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot has confessed to killing a young woman in his Lima hotel room last week.

Police Colonel Abel Gamarra told The Associated Press early Tuesday that van der Sloot confessed during an interrogation.

Van der Sloot was also the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of an American teenager on the Caribbean island of Aruba.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

LIMA, Peru (AP) — Police in Peru say the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot has confessed to killing a young woman in his Lima hotel room last week.

Police Colonel Abel Gamarra told The Associated Press early Friday that van der Sloot confessed during an interrogation.

Van der Sloot was also the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of an American teenager on the Caribbean island of Aruba.

(This version CORRECTS Corrects date in 2nd graf to Tuesday. APNewsNow. For global distribution.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 01:29:10 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 

Nonsense.  There was a BIG poker tournament and he wanted to attend.  He could have just killed somebody in Aruba to get the money.  Maybe even her.

You know the truth, I know the truth, but Aruba's main spokesperson for the last five years, JULIA RENFRO, wants you to believe that it was the fault of Beth Holloway that this (second) murder occurred:


who is Glenda? a monkey? she made a very disgusting comment. I hope that she doesnt have kids ans if she has one I hope that somebody else is looking for that kid

She is Julia Renfro, the talking head you see in virtually all television reports and many media reports about Natalee dating back to 2005.

She's repeatedly bashed Beth publically, most recently blaming her for the botched (corrrupt?) investigation on Aruba in the NY POST a few days ago, and has posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts making horrible statemtns (or cheering them on) on another message board.

I don't know what her goal is, but hopefully Aruba will (finally) figure out that her words aren't doing the island any good. She's a horrilbe and twisted person...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:29:19 AM
He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html

OMG

I imagine Anita will still come (confession or not).  Valentijn on the other hand is too busy with the night club scene.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 01:29:28 AM
Cecilita, she's a reporter in Aruba.
it is unbelievable than educated woman can make that kind of comments she should be banned immediately

I don't think it takes an education to be a reporter or anything else in Aruba.  

She is not a reporter...............she is a JVS apologist !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pinkbanana on June 08, 2010, 01:29:40 AM
Gosh I wish Peaches was here.   

Peaches knew before we did (insert winky monkey)

She sure did.

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:30:38 AM
Gosh I wish Peaches was here.   

Peaches knew before we did (insert winky monkey)

Yep oh man I gonna cry.  She was one cool chick.  And Her father-in-law passed away last week.  Just thought I'd tell ya that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 01:30:40 AM
Cecilita, she's a reporter in Aruba.
it is unbelievable than educated woman can make that kind of comments she should be banned immediately

I don't think it takes an education to be a reporter or anything else in Aruba. 

Here's her latest masterwork, bashing Beth in this weeks NYPOst:
http://www.nypost.com/f/print/news/national/blunders_L9qEDENTmAqV3V1PQobyYI

PS - Come visit our friendly island... [Just pray your daughter isn't murdered]



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 01:30:49 AM
Did anybody say she was educated?  At any rate she publicly apologized and she had better mean it; not meaning it would show a marked lack of education.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:30:51 AM
Amoretti: Van der Sloot would seek to reduce his sentence to less than 20 years

The criminal lawyer said that the Netherlands would be charged with manslaughter rather than qualified to say who killed the young Stephany Flores product of a discussion.

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) would be looking to reduce his sentence by stating that killed Stephany Flores (21), then that she discovered her laptop and revise the dark past of the subject, noted criminal lawyer Mario Amoretti.

He considered that the strategy would be to seek an indictment young for manslaughter rather than murder, as would a sentence of between six and twenty years would be reduced further benefit from the sincere confession.

"This is what is best suited (..) and he looked for a phone, and looked for a reason why he killed her, so this would be a simple murder. When it was said that he had attacked to facilitate a robbery we had a death resulting aggravated robbery and that he could correspond to life imprisonment. If it was a murder he could fall up to 35 years of pain, "he said.

However, Amoretti said it is the task of the National Police to investigate and determine, through its Division of High Tech Crime, if Van der Sloot's computer was manipulated by Stephany when he points out.

"In the Police Department is a high technology and that the troops led by the prosecution verify if the computer was actually manipulated the time that the murder occurred, ie the time that he went to drink coffee" he said.


"But also, you should establish what happened to the money she won at the casino. Why the wallet appeared without money, why was the truck. There are a number of vital clues to figure out to not only stay version of it, "added Amoretti

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-amoretti-van-der-sloot-buscaria-reducir-su-pena-a-menos-de-20-anos-noticia_270705.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jesdamala on June 08, 2010, 01:30:53 AM
Why did this confession come so quickly?

Peruvian interrogations must be very . . . . persuasive.

Why don't I believe this?  If true, then perhaps the Peruvians were very...persuasive.
Reminds me of my favorite Western, Once Upon a Time in the West.  Charles Bronson (Harmonica) tells Henry Fonda (Frank) that he will tell him who he is at the point of dying. 
I would not be at all surprised at the next relevation.  Hope Peruvians are video taping everything.  Should be under their 'open' system.  Until I see it, I don't believe it.
Just me....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 01:31:58 AM
Thank you to all who provided the articles regarding Joran's confession.

Thankfully Stephany's family has been afforded a measure of closure. The swift action taken by Peruvian law enforcement on behalf of the victim has implies that tourism will not be negatively affected.

If only justice for Natalee Holloway had been Aruba's focus five years ago ... 

Good Night All.

Janet
10:30 PM PT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:33:36 AM
I wouldn't call her a reporter either. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:34:12 AM
He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html


Excellent! Anita will be there when he turns and says to her:

I lied mom, and that`s the truth.



Now that a confession has been made,CNN reports that van der Sloot may be formally charged as early as Tuesday.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/293090


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:34:42 AM
I know you can't read the article, only the headline since it's in PAP.  I'm only posting for the title info.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/awemainta.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pinkbanana on June 08, 2010, 01:34:49 AM
Thank you to all who provided the articles regarding Joran's confession.

Thankfully Stephany's family has been afforded a measure of closure. The swift action taken by Peruvian law enforcement on behalf of the victim has implies that tourism will not be negatively affected.

If only justice for Natalee Holloway had been Aruba's focus five years ago ... 

Good Night All.

Janet
10:30 PM PT



If only is right!

Good Night...

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 01:35:24 AM
Did anybody say she was educated?  At any rate she publicly apologized and she had better mean it; not meaning it would show a marked lack of education.



Darleen - while it's 'nice' that she sort of apologized (the above jpg shows her actual words), this is the tip of the iceberg with her.  It would take seconds to find some other vile quote she's made about Beth. It would take seconds to find her repeated lies and misstatements. In fact, someone has posted a list of her lies on the 'net somewhere, maybe Klass has the link. I think they stopped updating it in 2007...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:35:27 AM
I wouldn't call her a reporter either. 

Nor would I


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:35:31 AM
One thing I give the Peruvians - think about how transparent they have been with video footage all along.  I think there is more to come..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:35:42 AM
He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html


Excellent! Anita will be there when he turns and says to her:

I lied mom, and that`s the truth.



Now that a confession has been made,CNN reports that van der Sloot may be formally charged as early as Tuesday.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/293090
well anita you should bring your own security


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:37:25 AM
One thing I give the Peruvians - think about how transparent they have been with video footage all along.  I think there is more to come..
i would love to see the video when he left the hotel for coffe. He must wear the clothes he wore when he got in to the hotel with stepany


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:38:23 AM
He went head-butt

Police guarding the Netherlands in jail say it is cold, calculating, and slept peacefully. Michael Jackson attorney defends murderer and four agents will take care not to mate.

http://www.trome.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 01:39:32 AM
Oh, I know that, TexasRick, (not about the list/link, but about the mean and untrue statements over the years); my point is that she's apologized for blaming Beth for his murders--that's insane (I know that's loaded...)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 08, 2010, 01:39:33 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:40:49 AM
I am also a little skeptical that the confession happened so quickly.  But maybe when faced with an airtight case, a refusal to extradite, a long sentence in a Peruvian prison, and no Daddy to help, maybe Joran gave up the info in exchange for a shorter sentence.  He has little, if any, leverage in Peru. 

I hope it's true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 08, 2010, 01:40:50 AM
I wouldn't call her a reporter either. 

Nor would I

I would call her "your ships photographer" from Love Boat fame.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 01:40:53 AM
HE CONFESSED! I can't beleive it................


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 01:40:54 AM
Well, if he told Anita that he's innocent, when she gets to him, she might just ask him why he lied to mama.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: billb's daughter on June 08, 2010, 01:41:42 AM
Oh, I get it....
"I did not want to do it," La Republica quoted him (urine) as saying. "The girl intruded into my private life."
Of course he had to kill her after that....Who wouldn't?

Fast forward to urine in prison.....
Guard...What happened?
Fine upstanding Peruvian citizen (in jail for the unthinkable....but not really guilty..wink, nod)
He (urine) bent over to pick up the soap.....I had too.....hehehe)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:41:49 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



YOU WOKE UP!  :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:41:54 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



RED!!!! What the heck are you doing up? lol

You`re the man.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 01:42:35 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:42:42 AM
Nice work Darleen.  You've always had a way with words. 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaApologize.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 01:42:47 AM
IMO, he confessed to Natalee's murder too. ALE just tore it up and guided him away from it. Damn them!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:43:12 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.

Not until we bring Natalee home


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:43:24 AM
The video when the monster goes for coffe , has been released? because if stephany was alive he will have the same clothes than he wore when he got in to the hotel. White shirt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 01:43:34 AM
http://www.wesh.com/news/23825980/detail.html?treets=orl&tml=orl_natlbreak&ts=T&tmi=orl_natlbreak_1_12190106082

OMG! Wonder if he confessed about Natalee, too.
Do you guys think this is true? Didn't take him long to crack without Daddy helping him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:43:39 AM
snoopy - thank you for the info regarding Peaches' father-in-law.  Prayers to her family.

Thank you monkeys for all the articles, discussions  and sticking with this and keping it alive for the last 5 years.

TM - thank you for keeping Natalee in our hearts every night

CBB - thank you for that wonderful picture of Natalee and Stephany

Klaasend - thank you for your over-the-top efforts and countless hours in both the Natalee forum, front page, and other missing person pages.  You are amazing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 08, 2010, 01:43:42 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 01:44:37 AM
Nice work Darleen.  You've always had a way with words. 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaApologize.jpg)

Way to go darleen!!!! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 01:44:50 AM
I wonder if the confession to an act of rage was made because if it was shown to be murder after robbery, the latter holds the death penalty or life sentence???

Also, does anyone have the larger version of this photo:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:45:34 AM
One thing I give the Peruvians - think about how transparent they have been with video footage all along.  I think there is more to come..
i would love to see the video when he left the hotel for coffe. He must wear the clothes he wore when he got in to the hotel with stepany

Exactly!  If they obtained the footage of then entering and him leaving, I am sure that will come out as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 08, 2010, 01:45:55 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



YOU WOKE UP!  :-)

Had some PC issues, I am on my CB radio held together with duct tape, ;)

Don't have all the accesses yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:46:26 AM
Nice work Darleen.  You've always had a way with words. 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaApologize.jpg)

OMG  print and frame this. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:46:26 AM
The video when the monster goes for coffe , has been released? because if stephany was alive he will have the same clothes than he wore when he got in to the hotel. White shirt.


No, I don't think that one has been released yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:46:39 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He didn't really need a reason.  He did it because that is what he does when he is alone with a woman in a hotel room.  That's what he does . . . laptop or no.  Natural born killer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 01:46:50 AM
My understanding is that striped shirt he was wearing when he left the hotel for the last time, is the clothing that had specks of blood on it.

This is amazing news,


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:47:22 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



YOU WOKE UP!  :-)

Had some PC issues, I am on my CB radio held together with duct tape, ;)

Don't have all the accesses yet.

I threw something up on the SM front page as soon as we heard.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:47:24 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.

Not until we bring Natalee home

Absolutely.  We'll be here as long as it takes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 01:47:28 AM
Wow, nice work Darleen!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:47:56 AM
One thing I give the Peruvians - think about how transparent they have been with video footage all along.  I think there is more to come..
i would love to see the video when he left the hotel for coffe. He must wear the clothes he wore when he got in to the hotel with stepany

Exactly!  If they obtained the footage of then entering and him leaving, I am sure that will come out as well.
for some reason dont show that video. I believe that he must changed his clothes before to go coffe because he killed her before the coffe bs. if he still wearing his white shirt I will believe that he killed her after the coffe like he said


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Hat on June 08, 2010, 01:48:05 AM
Not surprised he is trying to link the crime with the computer he had. I posted last night there could be some linkage, he used it to lure her to his room or something like that.

Now I am hearing he is using the computer to try and mitigate the crime. I also think he is trying to get convicted on the Aruba crime, or link the two murders so as to serve a sentence there instead of in Peru. This without confessing truthfully to either one.

The confession he has put forth in Peru is self serving, incomplete and likely inaccurate.

He may try to stay high profile as a self preservation tactic. I think it is only chance to stay alive.

My question is this: Will Joran Van Der Sloot again receive special treatment from a justice system? Will he be kept safe from the general prison population in ways an unknown criminal would not?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 01:48:13 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I think it was just a cold calculation. They have him for murder, probably robbery too and the 'crime of passion/rage' most likely has a lesser sentence than murder/robbery.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Frank on June 08, 2010, 01:48:21 AM
I agree about bringing Natalee home. I'm a believer that it's not a coincidence that the only person to be charged with Premeditated Murder was the first to be called up.

Joran's being prepared for his departure.

Van der straaten next.

Then they can watch Natalee's funeral and wonder...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:48:51 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.

Not until we bring Natalee home

Ditto what Klaasend said.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 01:50:21 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.

Not until we bring Natalee home

I would like to see that happen if it is at all possible..

On the island..
The gold mine shafts OR the pond that Tim is or wants to search. ?






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:50:54 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



YOU WOKE UP!  :-)

Had some PC issues, I am on my CB radio held together with duct tape, ;)

Don't have all the accesses yet.

Speaking of duct tape, and duct tape experiments.....how many monkeys considered giving themselves a thumb-print bruise to see if it turned "green".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jesdamala on June 08, 2010, 01:51:08 AM
snoopy - thank you for the info regarding Peaches' father-in-law.  Prayers to her family.

Thank you monkeys for all the articles, discussions  and sticking with this and keping it alive for the last 5 years.

TM - thank you for keeping Natalee in our hearts every night

CBB - thank you for that wonderful picture of Natalee and Stephany

Klaasend - thank you for your over-the-top efforts and countless hours in both the Natalee forum, front page, and other missing person pages.  You are amazing.

I second this! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:51:33 AM
Goodnight all!

Maybe tomorrow we find Natalee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:51:50 AM
You're welcome Sleuth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:52:03 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I`m having a hard time buying it. He said reading about who he was on the Internet, correct?

That`s a stretch.

Ceilita brings up a good point too. If he did it after he came back from getting coffee... he looks a little neat and is wearing the same clothes. What he is accused of ... he`d need a change of outfits, no?

Curly... where did you see that report? I haven`t seen that one yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
One thing I give the Peruvians - think about how transparent they have been with video footage all along.  I think there is more to come..
i would love to see the video when he left the hotel for coffe. He must wear the clothes he wore when he got in to the hotel with stepany

Exactly!  If they obtained the footage of then entering and him leaving, I am sure that will come out as well.
for some reason dont show that video. I believe that he must changed his clothes before to go coffe because he killed her before the coffe bs. if he still wearing his white shirt I will believe that he killed her after the coffe like he said
Article stated police are checking if there was any activity on the laptop during the timeframe he was out to buy coffee to prove this story.  If nothing is found , out come the jumper cables I hope. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:52:49 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

Trafficking was my first thought also.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:53:01 AM
Goodnight all!

Maybe tomorrow we find Natalee


Sleep tight, Klaas.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 01:53:45 AM
The police will hold a press conference tomorrow and we will get some REAL answers then.

I am not too concerned about the details.  They have him or this news would have never been released.  It will all work out.  If he got a lesser sentence, well, I will just be amazed if he ever leaves Peru alive.

And it doesn't matter why he did it--one excuse is just about as good as another.  He admitted he did it and that's all those judges are going to care about.

So tomorrow maybe we will get some facts  And remember it can take up to 2 years before he even gets to trial.  A lot can happen in two years.  I think it all just came crashing down on Joran at the same time--the perfect storm--and he cracxked.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 01:54:00 AM
I agree with you Red

Information on the His computer contained daming evidence.
Makes perfect sense


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:54:16 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



YOU WOKE UP!  :-)

Had some PC issues, I am on my CB radio held together with duct tape, ;)

Don't have all the accesses yet.

Speaking of duct tape, and duct tape experiments.....how many monkeys considered giving themselves a thumb-print bruise to see if it turned "green".

Oh my goodness!!  That reminded me of the night so long ago when someone was trying to see if they could fit into a trash bag.  BT maybe?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 01:54:28 AM

Please light a candle remembering Natalee ...

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=NAH

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Nat%27s



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 01:54:35 AM
Goodnight all!

Maybe tomorrow we find Natalee


Night Klaas...your lips to God's ears..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 01:54:50 AM
Goodnight Klaas.  Thanks for everything you do.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:54:59 AM
what about if he had two computers and one is gone?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 01:55:07 AM
http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:55:51 AM
With Stephany looking to buy a laptop herself, I still think she grabbed his to see what features it had while he was out to keep herself busy and stumbled onto something by accident on there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pinkbanana on June 08, 2010, 01:56:04 AM
Good Night...God BLESS

JUSTICE for Natalee and Stephany!!

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 01:56:29 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.

Not until we bring Natalee home

I'm sooooo glad you said that!! I've felt foolish to be hoping for that, but with the way this has all been unfolding and the uncanny way that Natalee has been so "present" in Stephany's case, I think it just may happen! Makes me feel good that you see a glimmer of hope there too!! Thanks Klaas!

Sleuth? I'm glad you liked the picture and thank you!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:57:06 AM
There it is.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 01:57:13 AM
hhahaahaha  i hope the DID promise him a deal and then after he confessed  they say

"deal ?  what deal ??  there is no deal  stupid   IDIOT "


hahahahahaahahahahahahaah

im LMAO just thinking about it



"you don't understand our system"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 01:57:29 AM
Do we know if he had scratches in his arms? because his long levees will  prevent scratches in his arms.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 01:57:49 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I don't buy that excuse at all. May not have even happened. He's trying to save himself from a life sentence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 01:58:36 AM
Someone was looking for the Steve Cohen picture when Joran got out in Aruba (other than the small jpg from the front page archives).  Let me know if you still need it and I can dig it p - I know I have it on a thumbdrive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 01:58:39 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I`m having a hard time buying it. He said reading about who he was on the Internet, correct?

That`s a stretch.

Ceilita brings up a good point too. If he did it after he came back from getting coffee... he looks a little neat and is wearing the same clothes. What he is accused of ... he`d need a change of outfits, no?

Curly... where did you see that report? I haven`t seen that one yet.

Carpe, no I think he said his private life, meaning his secret files he had kept about Natalee so am hoping we find answers about her as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Hat on June 08, 2010, 01:58:50 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I do not buy his explanation. I think he may have used the computer to lure her by claiming an online poker account sufficient to cover a debt to her after losing her money - or just claiming to be an online poker big shot as a ruse to get her to come to his room to see.

I say that because they do not look like a romantic couple in the video and she may have been vulnerable to that kind of a hustle - if she was exhausted, drugged, and involved in some kind of poker marathon.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 01:59:40 AM
Good Night...God BLESS

JUSTICE for Natalee and Stephany!!

pb

g`night pb!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 02:00:12 AM
There it is.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

I still think this story is concocted (by Joran) to minimize his sentence. If he were that concerned with his privacy and info so important that it would cause him to murder - he wouldn't have left it out in plain view while he went out for coffee.  I think it had something to do with money and/or drugs. Wasnt GHP or some other substance found in the victims car??

On an unrelated topic, would you know where I could find the large version of this?
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Aruba3021_small.jpg



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:01:00 AM
Do we know if he had scratches in his arms? because his long levees will  prevent scratches in his arms.

There was some analysis early in this thread.  It looked like there was scratches/bruises along his shoulder and/or chest.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 02:01:01 AM
Someone was looking for the Steve Cohen picture when Joran got out in Aruba (other than the small jpg from the front page archives).  Let me know if you still need it and I can dig it p - I know I have it on a thumbdrive.

Yes please! That was me.. its the large version of this:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Aruba3021_small.jpg

THANK YOU!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 02:01:53 AM
hhahaahaha  i hope the DID promise him a deal and then after he confessed  they say

"deal ?  what deal ??  there is no deal  stupid   IDIOT "


hahahahahaahahahahahahaah

im LMAO just thinking about it



"you don't understand our system"



I believe you have to pay a royalty to Arlene Schippers whenever you say that...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 02:01:54 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.
Aw, c'mon, Darlene, you know you cannot have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 08, 2010, 02:02:32 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



YOU WOKE UP!  :-)

Had some PC issues, I am on my CB radio held together with duct tape, ;)

Don't have all the accesses yet.

I threw something up on the SM front page as soon as we heard.

Fantastic job, saw it and added some more.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 02:02:33 AM
Do we know if he had scratches in his arms? because his long levees will  prevent scratches in his arms.

There was some analysis early in this thread.  It looked like there was scratches/bruises along his shoulder and/or chest.
Thanks


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 02:03:20 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

Which report, Anna? The one from WESH is the only one I posted.

I`m having a hard time buying it. He said reading about who he was on the Internet, correct?

That`s a stretch.

Ceilita brings up a good point too. If he did it after he came back from getting coffee... he looks a little neat and is wearing the same clothes. What he is accused of ... he`d need a change of outfits, no?

Curly... where did you see that report? I haven`t seen that one yet.

Carpe, no I think he said his private life, meaning his secret files he had kept about Natalee so am hoping we find answers about her as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 02:03:25 AM
http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.

Well, that SOB.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 02:03:26 AM
If stephany saw his files I believe that she will leave in a second.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 02:04:09 AM

Which report, Anna? The one from WESH is the only one I posted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 02:04:29 AM
You may be given before 20 years but would

Joran van der Sloot If it avails itself of the honest confession and thus managed to be understood in the crime of murder would be sentenced to a term below the statutory minimum, estimated the trial lawyer Mario Amoretti.

This release coincided with views of some judges, who said that, to obtain this benefit, the person would be sentenced to a term of 8 to 10 years in prison, but would come to meet one third.

If convicted of murder without premeditation, would give up to 20 years, and profits could come in 8 or 10 years.

Meanwhile, it emerged that the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE) would order today its entry into the criminal "Miguel Castro Castro" or "Piedras Gordas', for safety.

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093735.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Hat on June 08, 2010, 02:05:08 AM
Not surprised he is trying to link the crime with the computer he had. I posted last night there could be some linkage, he used it to lure her to his room or something like that.

Now I am hearing he is using the computer to try and mitigate the crime. I also think he is trying to get convicted on the Aruba crime, or link the two murders so as to serve a sentence there instead of in Peru. This without confessing truthfully to either one.

The confession he has put forth in Peru is self serving, incomplete and likely inaccurate.

He may try to stay high profile as a self preservation tactic. I think it is only chance to stay alive.

My question is this: Will Joran Van Der Sloot again receive special treatment from a justice system? Will he be kept safe from the general prison population in ways an unknown criminal would not?

Does anyone think he still has a chance to get preferential treatment from the justice system? Will he be protected from the general prison population because he is high profile?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Red on June 08, 2010, 02:05:47 AM
KUDOS PERU LE!!!

This far into the Aruban investigation into the disappearance of NH and we had black security guards arrested and the mother of all cover ups started.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 02:06:02 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:06:07 AM
Ding Dong the witch is dead!!!  FINALLY this guy is going to get what's been coming to him for 5 years!!  Feels like a weight has been lifted...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:06:18 AM
Decided it wasn't very clear where I was pointing to:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt3.jpg)

Here is the photo where scratches were being discussed.  Start at about page 24-25 of this thread.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 02:07:41 AM


Quote
<<snipped>>

"I just got my statement and the police brought some offenses that Joran has committed over the past two years. They were extremely shocked. I also told them the whole story about the state of affairs with Aruba and Joran's crime syndicate. Also about that they were heavily into conclave."

<<snipped>>

From Jaap's blog, as brought over by EURobert
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7645.msg1146291#msg1146291

I'm still quite interested/curious about this.  Wonder what is really meant by 'conclave'.  That's an unusual word, even in translation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 02:08:24 AM
Not surprised he is trying to link the crime with the computer he had. I posted last night there could be some linkage, he used it to lure her to his room or something like that.

Now I am hearing he is using the computer to try and mitigate the crime. I also think he is trying to get convicted on the Aruba crime, or link the two murders so as to serve a sentence there instead of in Peru. This without confessing truthfully to either one.

The confession he has put forth in Peru is self serving, incomplete and likely inaccurate.

He may try to stay high profile as a self preservation tactic. I think it is only chance to stay alive.

My question is this: Will Joran Van Der Sloot again receive special treatment from a justice system? Will he be kept safe from the general prison population in ways an unknown criminal would not?

Does anyone think he still has a chance to get preferential treatment from the justice system? Will he be protected from the general prison population because he is high profile?

He'll be protected for a while.  Then he'll be treated like any other common criminal.  And he won't leave Peru.  Her daddy will see to that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 02:08:39 AM
http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.

Well, that SOB.

Well, if this were true, why didn't she just leave the hotel room in his absence?
She could have called the cops and beat feet.
And he's confessing to taking her cash and jewelry?
Something's not right, although I couldn't be happier that he realized he was doomed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 02:08:47 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!


Niters, Anna. ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 02:09:24 AM
I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 02:11:10 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:11:13 AM
Ding Dong the witch is dead!!!  FINALLY this guy is going to get what's been coming to him for 5 years!!  Feels like a weight has been lifted...

All I could think of when you said that xxx...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 02:11:22 AM
snoopy - thank you for the info regarding Peaches' father-in-law.  Prayers to her family.

Thank you monkeys for all the articles, discussions  and sticking with this and keping it alive for the last 5 years.

TM - thank you for keeping Natalee in our hearts every night

CBB - thank you for that wonderful picture of Natalee and Stephany

Klaasend - thank you for your over-the-top efforts and countless hours in both the Natalee forum, front page, and other missing person pages.  You are amazing.

(((hugs)))

So sorry to hear about Peaches FIL, thanks for sharing that Snoopy.  She's here with us in our hearts and always will be.  



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 02:11:34 AM
Not surprised he is trying to link the crime with the computer he had. I posted last night there could be some linkage, he used it to lure her to his room or something like that.

Now I am hearing he is using the computer to try and mitigate the crime. I also think he is trying to get convicted on the Aruba crime, or link the two murders so as to serve a sentence there instead of in Peru. This without confessing truthfully to either one.

The confession he has put forth in Peru is self serving, incomplete and likely inaccurate.

He may try to stay high profile as a self preservation tactic. I think it is only chance to stay alive.

My question is this: Will Joran Van Der Sloot again receive special treatment from a justice system? Will he be kept safe from the general prison population in ways an unknown criminal would not?

Does anyone think he still has a chance to get preferential treatment from the justice system? Will he be protected from the general prison population because he is high profile?

Hat -

I think they'll do whatever it takes to keep him alive until he's sentenced.  Once that happens and he's shipped off to prison to serve that sentence, all bets are off.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 02:11:39 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!
4 am


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 02:12:23 AM
Peru Law enforcment did great work for Stephanie and her family.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 02:13:28 AM
Decided it wasn't very clear where I was pointing to:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JorannoShirt3.jpg)

Here is the photo where scratches were being discussed.  Start at about page 24-25 of this thread.
thank you, it seems that he has scratches on his neck. it looks that he was on top to her


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 02:13:40 AM
KUDOS PERU LE!!!

This far into the Aruban investigation into the disappearance of NH and we had black security guards arrested and the mother of all cover ups started.



I`ll second that, mate! They are breakin` down a chump - the right way.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lady Devon on June 08, 2010, 02:13:57 AM

Joran is no fool. He wanted to get as light a sentence as possible and realized there would be no plea bargaining. His sentence would be much longer had he admitted to
attempted rape or theft. He chose a motive that would insure him the shortest number of years: 20 yrs or less. That is 16 fewer years than what he was looking at
before his "confession" . I don't trust him to tell the truth.

I hate to mention this, but those bruises on the tops of her feet could have come from Joran trying to force her to perform oral sex and she may have deliberately inflicted some pain in an attempt to get free. JMO

He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I`m having a hard time buying it. He said reading about who he was on the Internet, correct?

That`s a stretch.

Ceilita brings up a good point too. If he did it after he came back from getting coffee... he looks a little neat and is wearing the same clothes. What he is accused of ... he`d need a change of outfits, no?

Curly... where did you see that report? I haven`t seen that one yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 02:15:14 AM
Not surprised he is trying to link the crime with the computer he had. I posted last night there could be some linkage, he used it to lure her to his room or something like that.

Now I am hearing he is using the computer to try and mitigate the crime. I also think he is trying to get convicted on the Aruba crime, or link the two murders so as to serve a sentence there instead of in Peru. This without confessing truthfully to either one.

The confession he has put forth in Peru is self serving, incomplete and likely inaccurate.

He may try to stay high profile as a self preservation tactic. I think it is only chance to stay alive.

My question is this: Will Joran Van Der Sloot again receive special treatment from a justice system? Will he be kept safe from the general prison population in ways an unknown criminal would not?

Does anyone think he still has a chance to get preferential treatment from the justice system? Will he be protected from the general prison population because he is high profile?

Once the publicity dies so does he


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 02:15:36 AM
OK, I went over to the Refugees and had a word with her.  I don't know how to bring it over here, but Glenda has apologized and admitted that Beth is not responsible.
darleenofalabama wrote:
Well, Glenda, I think we all know he knows quite a bit about throwing things in the ocean. That said, I've heard that you actually made a twisted statement blaming Beth, indirectly, for his being able to be in Peru, therefore available to murder Stephany. If that's true, you can just take that back. That's a sick thing to say and you know it's not true, so do the decent thing and apologize; apologize even if you didn't mean it to sound that way because plenty of people think you did.


I apologize, even though your accusation is not accurate from this post. Bottom line, Beth is not responsible for what happened to Natalee or Stephany.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pdh3 on June 08, 2010, 02:15:55 AM
He's lying again.  He makes it sound like he and Stephany went to his room to hang out like buddies, and he had to kill her to protect people in Aruba who were responsible for Natalee's death.  It's always someone else fault.  Like when he told Anita that if she had been home "this" wouldn't have happened.  He's sending a message to someone that he is keeping his mouth shut about Natalee, and they had better too.  And he is still taunting Beth by reminding her that he knows exactly what happened to Natalee and where she is.

JMHO he took Stephany to his room to rape and rob.  When she resisted he flew into his rage and brutally brutally murdered her.  And I think she was dead within 15 minutes of stepping foot into that room.  POS

He will never take sole responsibility for his actions.

Think about this too.  When a man from the school in Aruba told Viet Vet that Joran had hit Natalee in the head with an aluminum bat maybe that was a translation thing like we first heard with Stephany when it was really a tennis racket that he used to kill Natalee.




I totally agree with your post. I've had those very same thoughts.


Great to see all the old timers here, and welcome to the new ones! I have tried to post  a few times but kept getting kicked out due to the high volume of posters here.....LOL.

I believe Joran has lots of other victims, even if nothing else is ever legally tied to him. At the very least, we know he has drugged and raped other girls. He is a psychopath whose violence escalated from killing animals to rape and then to murder. He knew his crime gig was up on Aruba, and he was too well known in The Netherlands also, so I think he made his way to Third World countries to continue his crimes so that his victims would not have an advocate like Beth. He wanted his victims to be nameless and faceless. He made a mistake by picking Stephany. He had no idea how well-connected her family is. He really thought he could do whatever he wanted with no consequences. Anita, Paulus and Aruba turned a monster loose on the rest of the world. I hope Peru can cage him until he's dead.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 02:17:29 AM

Joran is no fool. He wanted to get as light a sentence as possible and realized there would be no plea bargaining. His sentence would be much longer had he admitted to
attempted rape or theft. He chose a motive that would insure him the shortest number of years: 20 yrs or less. That is 16 fewer years than what he was looking at
before his "confession" . I don't trust him to tell the truth.

I hate to mention this, but those bruises on the tops of her feet could have come from Joran trying to force her to perform oral sex and she may have deliberately inflicted some pain in an attempt to get free. JMO

He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I`m having a hard time buying it. He said reading about who he was on the Internet, correct?

That`s a stretch.

Ceilita brings up a good point too. If he did it after he came back from getting coffee... he looks a little neat and is wearing the same clothes. What he is accused of ... he`d need a change of outfits, no?

Curly... where did you see that report? I haven`t seen that one yet.
oral sex....i thought that maybe she tried to resist from being moved or pulled by the monster like putting her feet under the bed to prevent to be pulled. but oral sex can be possible. did he take a shower before leave?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 02:17:46 AM
Are you saying that Glenda has blamed Beth for that murderer being available to murder Stephany??!!  Because if she is, she is even sicker and crazier than I thought and maybe I'll just go over to the Refugees and have a word with her.

Yes, she is blaming Beth because according to Glenda, Joran would not have had the money to go to Peru if it hadn't been for the $$ he got from the sting. 

Nonsense.  There was a BIG poker tournament and he wanted to attend.  He could have just killed somebody in Aruba to get the money.  Maybe even her.

You know the truth, I know the truth, but Aruba's main spokesperson for the last five years, JULIA RENFRO, wants you to believe that it was the fault of Beth Holloway that this (second) murder occurred:


who is Glenda? a monkey? she made a very disgusting comment. I hope that she doesnt have kids ans if she has one I hope that somebody else is looking for that kid

She is Julia Renfro, the talking head you see in virtually all television reports and many media reports about Natalee dating back to 2005.

She's repeatedly bashed Beth publically, most recently blaming her for the botched (corrrupt?) investigation on Aruba in the NY POST a few days ago, and has posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts making horrible statemtns (or cheering them on) on another message board.

I don't know what her goal is, but hopefully Aruba will (finally) figure out that her words aren't doing the island any good. She's a horrilbe and twisted person...
Actually, she is a media whore and an idiot.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 02:18:00 AM
HALLELAJUH!!!

I'm late to the party...after being up for days, waiting on this....

I "thought" he might confess without his father...we heard he confessed about Natalee, too, but that all got erased.

It will take a long time for LE to sort through the maze of lies he's told and will continue to tell IMO.

I haven't had a chance to read back yet...is Anita in Peru yet?

HALLELAJUH!!!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 02:18:19 AM
Not surprised he is trying to link the crime with the computer he had. I posted last night there could be some linkage, he used it to lure her to his room or something like that.

Now I am hearing he is using the computer to try and mitigate the crime. I also think he is trying to get convicted on the Aruba crime, or link the two murders so as to serve a sentence there instead of in Peru. This without confessing truthfully to either one.

The confession he has put forth in Peru is self serving, incomplete and likely inaccurate.

He may try to stay high profile as a self preservation tactic. I think it is only chance to stay alive.

My question is this: Will Joran Van Der Sloot again receive special treatment from a justice system? Will he be kept safe from the general prison population in ways an unknown criminal would not?

Does anyone think he still has a chance to get preferential treatment from the justice system? Will he be protected from the general prison population because he is high profile?

He'll be protected for a while.  Then he'll be treated like any other common criminal.  And he won't leave Peru.  Her daddy will see to that.

YES, I believe his days are numbered and he may well have been weighing his odds.  In or out of a Peruvian prison he is a marked man.  Her father may be more powerful than we know.  Urine knows all about how powerful a daddy can be.  Now he may be getting a good idea of what it could be like to be on the receiving end of all of that power.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 02:18:32 AM
I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.

Thanks Cecilita


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 02:18:58 AM
OMG, when I woke up about two hours ago there was nothing on the news.
Just got to work, turned on the computer and it's all over the news!
Every Dutch newssite is mentioning it!
I think, no know, that he confessed to get a deal out of it.
But still, a confession is a confession (for now).
Very curious to see how this will unfold.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 02:20:16 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37542848/ns/world_news-americas/

Van der Sloot confesses to Peru slaying
Paper reports suspect lost his temper after victim grabbed laptop
   
Video

NBC News and news services
updated 7 minutes ago

LIMA, Peru - A high-ranking Peruvian government official confirmed to NBC News Monday night that Joran van der Sloot confessed to the slaying of a 21-year-old Lima woman.

According to La Republica newspaper, he said that his anger exploded and he broke Stephany Flores' neck after she grabbed his laptop without his permission, and found out that he was involved in the disappearance of an American woman.

The paper quoted Van der Sloot as saying, "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."

The Dutchman, who is also the prime suspect in U.S. teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba, is being held in a seventh-floor cell with a bunk bed and blanket and gets three hot meals a day, said Maj. Jose Gamboa, spokesman for the Peruvian national police.

Van der Sloot is suspected in the May 30 killing — five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance — of Flores, a business student who police say he met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video Saturday taken by security cameras at the hotel where van der Sloot had been staying since arriving from Colombia on May 14. It shows the two entering van der Sloot's room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

The woman's battered body was found on the room's floor more than two days later, her neck broken. Van der Sloot had by then crossed into Chile, where he was arrested Thursday.

In video taken of the husky 22-year-old Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police search van der Sloot's belongings in his presence.

They pull out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency. Van der Sloot tells police the money includes Thai, Cambodian and Bolivian currency. He is asked for credit cards and documents and appears to say — his Spanish is very rudimentary — that they are in a hotel room back in Chile.

Earlier, Peru's chief homicide investigator, Col. Miguel Canlla, would neither confirm nor deny a Sunday report in the Lima newspaper El Comercio that van der Sloot told his Peruvian questioners he was innocent of the Flores killing.

"I don't know where that information came from," Canlla told The Associated Press. "We are still in the investigative stage."

Chilean police said earlier that van der Sloot declared himself innocent in the Lima slaying but acknowledged having met Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning.

Until he hires his own counsel, "the guys prosecuting him will decide which attorney he's going to get," van der Sloot's U.S. attorney, Joseph Tacopina, told the AP.

Tacopina said the suspect's family "is trying to find competent counsel."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:20:29 AM
Ding Dong the witch is dead!!!  FINALLY this guy is going to get what's been coming to him for 5 years!!  Feels like a weight has been lifted...

All I could think of when you said that xxx...
SLEUTH!!!!!!  :)  Good to see you!  How have you been? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:22:10 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: snoopy on June 08, 2010, 02:23:48 AM
Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:23:57 AM
Ding Dong the witch is dead!!!  FINALLY this guy is going to get what's been coming to him for 5 years!!  Feels like a weight has been lifted...

All I could think of when you said that xxx...
SLEUTH!!!!!!  :)  Good to see you!  How have you been? 

Good strike.  I hope you have been as well.  Amazing, isn't it that this is 5 years..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 02:23:58 AM
HALLELAJUH!!!

I'm late to the party...after being up for days, waiting on this....

I "thought" he might confess without his father...we heard he confessed about Natalee, too, but that all got erased.

It will take a long time for LE to sort through the maze of lies he's told and will continue to tell IMO.

I haven't had a chance to read back yet...is Anita in Peru yet?

HALLELAJUH!!!



One report said she was on her way and last he spoke to her he told her he did not do it.  Should be a interesting reunion.  Hope they tape it all and release the tapes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 02:26:17 AM
http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.
Interesting;
Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.


 Luisa Kay Reyes  P.S. I think everyone should boycott Aruba and vacation in Peru instead!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 02:26:44 AM
Joran is cornered and like a trapped animal frantically trying to get out.
Not gonna happen this time!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: EURobert on June 08, 2010, 02:26:51 AM
Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BabsKats on June 08, 2010, 02:27:07 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2010060


Police: Dutchman confesses to killing Lima woman
, Associated Press Writer – 5 mins ago
LIMA, Peru – Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in U.S. teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba, confesses to killing a young woman in his Lima hotel room last week, a police spokesman says.

Police Col. Abel Gamarra, head of the Information Directorate of Police, told The Associated Press late Monday that Van der Sloot admitted under questioning by police that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores.

Gamarra said the case will be turned over to prosecutors who will present formal charges against Van der Sloot. The National Prison Institute will determine which prison he will be held in while awaiting trial.

Police planned to take Van der Sloot to the hotel on Tuesday to participate in a reconstruction of the events leading to Flores' slaying, Gamarra said.

Gamarra did not provide further details about the confession.

A Peruvian television station, Channel 4, said it had obtained details about Van der Sloot's confession in which he reportedly told police that he killed Flores because he got angry when he found out that she had looked up information about his past on his laptop.

Flores, a university student studying business administration, was found beaten to death in the hotel room where the Dutchman had stayed while participating in a poker tournament. Flores is thought to have met Van der Sloot at the casino.

She was last seen alive on a hotel video the night of May 30 entering Van der Sloot's room. The Dutchman is seen on the video leaving the room several hours later with his baggage and walking out of the hotel.

Police said he took a bus to Chile, where he was captured several days


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:27:48 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 02:27:49 AM
I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.

Thanks Cecilita

Yes, I believe his days are numbered, too. 

I don't know if it's even possible for Joran to make any kind of deal with Peru.  Stephany's father just might want to let Joran think that's possible because he seems very sympathetic concerning Natalee..."if" her father has "that" kind of pull with LE...

BUT...if any of that occurs in the future, I sure hope that Joran would never be moved out of Peru before finding Natalee's remains and the FBI confirming they are Natalee's remains. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 02:28:13 AM
Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.

I worry that there may be victims in Thailand.  Many poor women who have no options in life and no one to worry if they go missing.  I even wonder if he has been involved in snuff films....it makes me sick.....he is a monster.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 02:28:53 AM
I am sorry.  I don't know how I got my message attached to the post.  So sorry.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 02:30:45 AM
Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.

He's not in Aruba anymore.  I just don't see that happening!

He's not telling the whole truth!  He knew just what and how much to say.  He's had a lot of advice and practice over five years!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:31:43 AM


Does anyone think he still has a chance to get preferential treatment from the justice system? Will he be protected from the general prison population because he is high profile?

Depends on what "preferential" means.  In a program (I forgot which one) earlier this evening there was someone being interviewed that had seen many, many prisons and he said Peru had the worst.  He was talking about prisoners sleeping on the floor, etc.  In some cases they got to sleep two to a bed - maybe that would be preferential treatment for Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 02:31:59 AM
He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html

Oh, my gosh!  If there are ANY women missing because of Joran...I hope it's all discovered.
According to FBI, if you kill 3 or more people, they consider you a "serial killer".  If any women were killed in Colombia.....

Wonder what Anita thinks of her little sporter now?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 02:32:48 AM
Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.

He's not in Aruba anymore.  I just don't see that happening!

He's not telling the whole truth!  He knew just what and how much to say.  He's had a lot of advice and practice over five years!

And not just for the past 5 years. No doubt daddy taught him some legal stuff even long before '05.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cecilita on June 08, 2010, 02:33:11 AM
LE also should check if he use his computer before he went for coffe. we know that he was crazy for money and maybe he showed stephany what he had in his computer to scaried her for her to give him her money have with her and the money she had in the bank but she refused to to that and he killed her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:33:23 AM
Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.
That'll never happen.  He'll spend his 20-plus years in a Peruvian Prison.  That much I'd bet the farm on.  And, remember I said this the next time there's big news regarding JDVS...he'll be dead in the next 6 months to a year.  No way he makes it past 12 months.  The Dutch won't touch him.  He's a man with no Country now.  That Peruvian Prison will be his hospice...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 02:34:23 AM
I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.

Thanks Cecilita

I don't think it'll have any bearing on the case. He knew killing was wrong, and by running away and lamely trying to disguise himself, shows he knows right from wrong.

So what's the procedure now that there's a confession?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 02:34:49 AM
I just cannot beleive this!!! We are all here and we are reacting to Joran confessing to murder in a system that can and will hold him accountable!

A murder that occurred on the 5th anniversary of when he murdered Natalee.

A murder that occurred after Natalee's Mother had seized an opportunity to get him off the streets and had him hemmed in.

A murder he has confessed to stating it was Natalee that caused the rage.

Stephany's father graciously said that God would allow Stephany's death to be an instrument to bring justice for Natalee.

I accept Stephany's Father's view. We are all together and we are seeing it. Justice for Natalee is no longer just wishful thinking. We are witnessing it unfold before our eyes! Natalee cannot be extracted from this. Aruba, Joran, Van der Stratten, Depak, Paulus............ no one could silence Natalee and what she was and what they did to her. The island couldn't restrain the truth, the ocean couldn't swallow the lies, and the universe cried out that the blood of a young girl, full of promise, hope, and potential  could not be swept away. Beth's pain was felt, her tears were seen and her prayers were heard.

She will have peace that Joran will never know.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 02:36:29 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_50.jpg)


(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Stephany.jpg)


Truth and Justice
for Natalee and Stephany!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:36:33 AM
Ding Dong the witch is dead!!!  FINALLY this guy is going to get what's been coming to him for 5 years!!  Feels like a weight has been lifted...

All I could think of when you said that xxx...
SLEUTH!!!!!!  :)  Good to see you!  How have you been? 

Good strike.  I hope you have been as well.  Amazing, isn't it that this is 5 years..
It's CRAZY it's already been 5 years!  Seems like a long (and short) time ago (for different reasons).  I have this sense of vindication tonight!  makes one feel good for being a part of it.  congrats everyone!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:39:11 AM
I just cannot beleive this!!! We are all here and we are reacting to Joran confessing to murder in a system that can and will hold him accountable!

A murder that occurred on the 5th anniversary of when he murdered Natalee.

A murder that occurred after Natalee's Mother had seized an opportunity to get him off the streets and had him hemmed in.

A murder he has confessed to stating it was Natalee that caused the rage.

Stephany's father graciously said that God would allow Stephany's death to be an instrument to bring justice for Natalee.

I accept Stephany's Father's view. We are all together and we are seeing it. Justice for Natalee is no longer just wishful thinking. We are witnessing it unfold before our eyes! Natalee cannot be extracted from this. Aruba, Joran, Van der Stratten, Depak, Paulus............ no one could silence Natalee and what she was and what they did to her. The island couldn't restrain the truth, the ocean couldn't swallow the lies, and the universe cried out that the blood of a young girl, full of promise, hope, and potential  could not be swept away. Beth's pain was felt, her tears were seen and her prayers were heard.

She will have peace that Joran will never know.

Very well said CBB!  Very proud of everyone involved.  Both of these victims deserve to RIP.  Maybe now they finally can.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 02:42:16 AM
I just cannot beleive this!!! We are all here and we are reacting to Joran confessing to murder in a system that can and will hold him accountable!

A murder that occurred on the 5th anniversary of when he murdered Natalee.

A murder that occurred after Natalee's Mother had seized an opportunity to get him off the streets and had him hemmed in.

A murder he has confessed to stating it was Natalee that caused the rage.

Stephany's father graciously said that God would allow Stephany's death to be an instrument to bring justice for Natalee.

I accept Stephany's Father's view. We are all together and we are seeing it. Justice for Natalee is no longer just wishful thinking. We are witnessing it unfold before our eyes! Natalee cannot be extracted from this. Aruba, Joran, Van der Stratten, Depak, Paulus............ no one could silence Natalee and what she was and what they did to her. The island couldn't restrain the truth, the ocean couldn't swallow the lies, and the universe cried out that the blood of a young girl, full of promise, hope, and potential  could not be swept away. Beth's pain was felt, her tears were seen and her prayers were heard.

She will have peace that Joran will never know.


(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_Beth_hollowayfamilygall-550.jpg)


HOPE is the inexplicable empowerment that enables us to move successfully from challenge to resolution with courage....

It's the guarantee that there's light at the end of whatever tunnel we're trying to find our way through....

It's more than just wishful thinking....

It's more than just a feeling....



Beth Holloway


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 02:42:48 AM
Joran wanted a "rich chick

by Johan Van den Dongen
ORANGE CITY - Joran van der Sloot in Lima wanted a rich woman hooked. The thought left him in a poker friend in Aruba not let go.

Joran, suspected of the murder of the wealthy Stephany Flores, became obsessed by size according to the poker idea. The Dutchman met Joran at the poker room at the Radisson Hotel in Aruba. "During the period that Joran's father died and was buried, was Joran on Aruba and of course in the poker room," said the man, who wishes to remain anonymous.
Amazed
"When I was playing at a table with American tourists, slid Joran on. In the beginning you're still somewhat surprised, but, especially since you're the only two Dutch speaking, you become a little busy. Especially about the lack of playing qualities of the opponents. One day I came into a big hand contact with Joran. He put a considerable amount of money and I said: If you are just as good bluff and lie, you're a very good poker player. Eventually I went along and won that pot. When the ice was broken and we had a great evening. "
"Not too smart and too independent '
Joran van der Sloot was looking forward to a rich girl who's not too smart and not too independent "was recalls his anonymous friend is poker. "What struck me were the many smoke and drink Joran and his fixation on money."
"After a few hours chatting he noticed my wedding ring and asked amazed how it is that I already am married. He looked me straight in the eye and asked how it is when someone really loves you. I felt a little uncomfortable. I responded with a joke and said that marriage is the best way to get rich quickly in a short time. This created a bizarre discussion. "" Joran said that he was afraid for its future. He saw opportunities, but the idea of a rich lady to find and then be sure of much money, spoke to him. He had even wat criteria for a candidate. It was ugly, so they are easy to decorate was, he reasoned. He thought that one pregnancy wel for would ensure a quick marriage. "

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6883579/__Joran_wilde__rijke_chick__versieren__.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:44:54 AM
I thnk Klaasend reported this earlier...

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html (http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html)

He was with women in Colombia

By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.

On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 02:47:06 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/NatbirdStephany2.gif)

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE AND STEPHANY!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pdh3 on June 08, 2010, 02:48:08 AM
Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.

I worry that there may be victims in Thailand.  Many poor women who have no options in life and no one to worry if they go missing.  I even wonder if he has been involved in snuff films....it makes me sick.....he is a monster.



Makes me sick too.


I am infuriated that he's again blaming his victim for her own murder.....saying he didn't  want to kill her, but she was snooping so she was at fault. Very familiar tactic and so typical of Joran. I hope Stephany's family can make him SHUT THE HELL UP.
I don't believe that story anyway. It's another lie from Joran. But he did manage to get it out there that this girl was somehow at fault. He is beyond despicable.






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 02:49:33 AM
I thnk Klaasend reported this earlier...

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html (http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html)

He was with women in Colombia

By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.

On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

But don/t we know that he was in Aruba on the 10th, because of the extortion plot???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:55:17 AM
I thnk Klaasend reported this earlier...

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html (http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html)

He was with women in Colombia

By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.

On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

But don/t we know that he was in Aruba on the 10th, because of the extortion plot???
Speaking of that extortion plot.  I heard on Dana's show that there were actually (2) payments made...one case, and one a wire transfer.  Is that true?  Also, I am extremely hopeful that Joran will now realize his life as he knew it is over,and he now has nothing more to hide and really provide info in order to find Natalee.  I'd trade a few less years in a Peruvian jail for the ability to have Beth and the rest of the Holloway family gain closure.  Wouldn't you?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 02:55:34 AM
akmom - I am no longer sure of his exact timeline.  I hope his passport tells all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 02:56:10 AM
Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.

I worry that there may be victims in Thailand.  Many poor women who have no options in life and no one to worry if they go missing.  I even wonder if he has been involved in snuff films....it makes me sick.....he is a monster.



Makes me sick too.


I am infuriated that he's again blaming his victim for her own murder.....saying he didn't  want to kill her, but she was snooping so she was at fault. Very familiar tactic and so typical of Joran. I hope Stephany's family can make him SHUT THE HELL UP.
I don't believe that story anyway. It's another lie from Joran. But he did manage to get it out there that this girl was somehow at fault. He is beyond despicable.






I have not a doubt in my mind that even if he were to go free, Stephanys family will find a way to hunt him down.  Sorry, and don/t mean to make them sound evil, but I have a feeling, he may very well feel his odds are better in a Peruvian prison......I see no end to this but a bad one.... for Urine.....
   I have to wonder if Stephany may have even been trying to sleuth Urine out....maybe trying to help Natalee, and got caught up in this horror. ...God bless this girl no matter what......I see all of our missing/murdered together looking down on us all....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 02:57:02 AM
Oh, I get it....
"I did not want to do it," La Republica quoted him (urine) as saying. "The girl intruded into my private life."
Of course he had to kill her after that....Who wouldn't?

Fast forward to urine in prison.....
Guard...What happened?
Fine upstanding Peruvian citizen (in jail for the unthinkable....but not really guilty..wink, nod)
He (urine) bent over to pick up the soap.....I had too.....hehehe)

Blaming it on the victim, Stepany, will not set well with her father.  He blamed everyting on Natalee, too.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 02:57:37 AM
I thnk Klaasend reported this earlier...

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html (http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html)

He was with women in Colombia

By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.

On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

But don/t we know that he was in Aruba on the 10th, because of the extortion plot???
Speaking of that extortion plot.  I heard on Dana's show that there were actually (2) payments made...one case, and one a wire transfer.  Is that true?  Also, I am extremely hopeful that Joran will now realize his life as he knew it is over,and he now has nothing more to hide and really provide info in order to find Natalee.  I'd trade a few less years in a Peruvian jail for the ability to have Beth and the rest of the Holloway family gain closure.  Wouldn't you?

Yes he got $15K cash and $10K via bank transfer (or the other way around, but the total amount was $25,000).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 02:58:08 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.

Not until we bring Natalee home

Correct!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 02:59:29 AM
I thnk Klaasend reported this earlier...

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html (http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html)

He was with women in Colombia

By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.

On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

But don/t we know that he was in Aruba on the 10th, because of the extortion plot???
Speaking of that extortion plot.  I heard on Dana's show that there were actually (2) payments made...one case, and one a wire transfer.  Is that true?  Also, I am extremely hopeful that Joran will now realize his life as he knew it is over,and he now has nothing more to hide and really provide info in order to find Natalee.  I'd trade a few less years in a Peruvian jail for the ability to have Beth and the rest of the Holloway family gain closure.  Wouldn't you?

Yes he got $15K cash and $10K via bank transfer (or the other way around, but the total amount was $25,000).
Got it.  So, did he provide any info for those payments?  Understanding he was full of sh*t, did he have any reason to believe he was being "stung"?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:00:02 AM
xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 03:00:28 AM
akmom - I am no longer sure of his exact timeline.  I hope his passport tells all.

Yes, it should although I still cannot figure how he got to Chile without it, unless you do not need it to travel between Peru and Chile, if you are a Dutch citizen


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:00:53 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:01:32 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.

Not until we bring Natalee home

Correct!


I hear ya Puzzler.  But, the window is nclosing fast!  If he doesn't provide any usefull info before he gets convicted, we may never know Natalee's resting place, or the circumstances behind her death.  It's all up to him now...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:02:47 AM
xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell  he'll make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow :-)

Sorry for the slip.  That is just where I think he'll go after prison...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:04:27 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:05:11 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.


Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 03:07:55 AM
OMG, when I woke up about two hours ago there was nothing on the news.
Just got to work, turned on the computer and it's all over the news!
Every Dutch newssite is mentioning it!
I think, no know, that he confessed to get a deal out of it.
But still, a confession is a confession (for now).
Very curious to see how this will unfold.


He better tell Tacopina, he is still looking for that third person.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:08:39 AM
xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell  he'll make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow :-)

Sorry for the slip.  That is just where I think he'll go after prison...
And it won't take long for him to get there Sleuth.  He'll be little more than a receptcale in Prison anyway.  Once one of those Peruvian Gang leaders decide they want his head in their mantle, he'll be ordered dead and that'll be that.  Again, dead within 12 months.  If he's a "marshmallow" as Rob says, maybe it'll be 6 months before the Grim Reaper comes calling...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: EURobert on June 08, 2010, 03:08:49 AM
Tue June 8, 2010, 08:25

"Van der Sloot has been in remission from '
LIMA - With the admission that he has slain Stephany Flores, trying Joran van der Sloot to get his sentence down. That the Peruvian criminal law specialist Mario Amoretti Monday (local time) against Peruvian media said when the police report leaked to the confession.

According to the Peruvian newspaper La República known Van der Sloot Monday at 17.30 Peruvian time, after having systematically denied. He was angry because Stephany Flores in his private life interfered by his laptop on his dark past to have read.
"His strategy is to charge into manslaughter instead of murder. This would he a sentence between six and twenty years get. Of murder would be up to 35 years. And the penalty can be further reduced by the admission. This is more favorable for him unpacked, "said Amoretti against the radio station RPP.
According to the police must find out whether Amoretti Stephany actually booted the laptop at the time that in the supermarket opposite the hotel coffee went out. "And the police must find out what happened to the money they won in the casino and that he disappeared and why the car went off," said Amoretti against RPP.
Van der Sloot would after his departure from the hotel by car from Flores have taken and have parked in another area.

http://tinyurl.com/2a55nh6


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:10:15 AM
Kalpoes had better call the FBI at the first light of dawn!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: EURobert on June 08, 2010, 03:11:27 AM
Macabre image:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:12:19 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?
That's what I read as well Sleuth.  I firmly believe in that timeline.  Goes out for (2) cups of coffee, and returns to find her on his comp.  Sets him off, and he kills her.  Not sure he'd smart enough to bhe concerned with playing to the cameras.  if he was, he'd have thought of a better plan then to have both enter, and only him leave...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:12:49 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I`m having a hard time buying it. He said reading about who he was on the Internet, correct?

That`s a stretch.

Ceilita brings up a good point too. If he did it after he came back from getting coffee... he looks a little neat and is wearing the same clothes. What he is accused of ... he`d need a change of outfits, no?

Curly... where did you see that report? I haven`t seen that one yet.

Carpe, no I think he said his private life, meaning his secret files he had kept about Natalee so am hoping we find answers about her as well.

Just on the slight possibility that Stephany was into Joran's secret files, that sure would have been a gutsy move on her part.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:14:21 AM
There it is.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

I still think this story is concocted (by Joran) to minimize his sentence. If he were that concerned with his privacy and info so important that it would cause him to murder - he wouldn't have left it out in plain view while he went out for coffee.  I think it had something to do with money and/or drugs. Wasnt GHP or some other substance found in the victims car??

On an unrelated topic, would you know where I could find the large version of this?
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Aruba3021_small.jpg



computer forensics would bear out if that's the truth...if so...would also give a "time".



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:16:09 AM
Macabre image:
Are these legit?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 03:17:09 AM
De Telegraaf

Tue June 8, 2010, 08:25
"Van der Sloot has been in remission from '


LIMA - With the admission that he has slain Stephany Flores, trying Joran van der Sloot to get his sentence down. That the Peruvian criminal law specialist Mario Amoretti Monday (local time) against Peruvian media said when the police report leaked to the confession.

According to the Peruvian newspaper La República known Van der Sloot Monday at 17.30 Peruvian time, after having systematically denied. He was angry because Stephany Flores in his private life interfered by his laptop on his dark past to have read.

"His strategy is to charge into manslaughter instead of murder. This would he a sentence between six and twenty years get. Of murder would be up to 35 years. And the penalty can be further reduced by the admission. It is more favorable for him unpacked, "said the radio station RPP by Amoretti.

According to the police must find out whether Amoretti Stephany actually booted the laptop at the time that in the supermarket opposite the hotel coffee went out. "And the police must find out what happened to the money they won in the casino and that he disappeared and why the car went off," said Amoretti against RPP.

Van der Sloot would after his departure from the hotel by car from Flores have taken and have parked in another area.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6884231/___Joran_uit_op_strafvermindering___.html?p=2,1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 03:17:36 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 03:19:13 AM
Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.

He's not in Aruba anymore.  I just don't see that happening!

He's not telling the whole truth!  He knew just what and how much to say.  He's had a lot of advice and practice over five years!

He cut his teeth on the law.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:22:13 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?


Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:22:17 AM


Quote
<<snipped>>

"I just got my statement and the police brought some offenses that Joran has committed over the past two years. They were extremely shocked. I also told them the whole story about the state of affairs with Aruba and Joran's crime syndicate. Also about that they were heavily into conclave."

<<snipped>>


From Jaap's blog, as brought over by EURobert
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7645.msg1146291#msg1146291

I'm still quite interested/curious about this.  Wonder what is really meant by 'conclave'.  That's an unusual word, even in translation.

Me, too!  When I first read this I "knew" it would be important, although I didn't understand what it all meant.  No telling what is on JAAP's computer, etc.  Just like there's no telling what's on Joran's computer, etc.

I hope Interpol performs complete computer forensics on Joran's computer and sends it to the FBI. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: EURobert on June 08, 2010, 03:22:33 AM
http://elcomercio.pe/player/491307


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 03:23:05 AM
He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html

Oh, my gosh!  If there are ANY women missing because of Joran...I hope it's all discovered.
According to FBI, if you kill 3 or more people, they consider you a "serial killer".  If any women were killed in Colombia.....

Wonder what Anita thinks of her little sporter now?



Well, there is Natalee and Stephany.  He also killed his dog.  I am not comparing a human to an animal.  IMO, if you can brutally kill your own pet dog, which people treat as a member of your family, it is only a small leap to kill a human.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:25:02 AM
http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.

Well, that SOB.

Well, if this were true, why didn't she just leave the hotel room in his absence?
She could have called the cops and beat feet.
And he's confessing to taking her cash and jewelry?
Something's not right, although I couldn't be happier that he realized he was doomed.

Exactly what I've been thinking:

She was a smart girl -
Why did she go to his room in the first place (he'll lie about that and say she wanted him)
Why did she stay in the room "if" she found out stuff on his computer
Why didn't she leave when he went for coffee, if she was alive then (she wasn't IMO)
She was a lesbian, and was found in her underpants...he tried to assualt her and the fury began



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:25:55 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

hee hee hee - wouldn't it be "perfect" if there are NO Stephany fingerprints on his computer?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:26:07 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:27:16 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!
4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:31:04 AM
I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.

Thanks Cecilita

Yes, thanks, Cecilita



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:31:50 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?
That's what I read as well Sleuth.  I firmly believe in that timeline.  Goes out for (2) cups of coffee, and returns to find her on his comp.  Sets him off, and he kills her.  Not sure he'd smart enough to bhe concerned with playing to the cameras.  if he was, he'd have thought of a better plan then to have both enter, and only him leave...

I believe this timeline as well.

Those Macabre images are some sort of re-enactment.  That girl is fully clothed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:33:44 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!
4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?



Yes - it is 2:33 am in Peru right now, 3:33 am Eastern time..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:35:01 AM
I just received a message from my cousin is a doctor and she is working in the jail. She said that they will see if the guy was treated before of any king of psychiatric disorder ans see if he was under medication. I don't know if that will be important in the case but crazy or not he killed for robbery.

Thanks Cecilita

Yes, thanks, Cecilita



Ditto - thank you Cecilita for our on-the-ground updates.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:35:18 AM
Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.


Eeewwwww!  Why does that have such a ring of truth to it?!?!?!

Can't happen, can't happen....this freak of nature just can't be let to outsmart the system...the US system needs to get him for taking the life of an American!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:35:21 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!
4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?



Yes - it is 2:33 am in Peru right now, 3:33 am Eastern time..
Ok, so if it's 12:35am where I am right now, what time (my time) is this press conference?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:36:04 AM
He was with women in Colombia
By J. Yucra
Joran van der Sloot arrived in Lima on May 14, but a week before he was in Bogota, Colombia, where he went to casinos and surrounded himself with women, some of which have disappeared and are wanted by the police.

"During his stay abroad he stayed in two hotels in Bogotá", published a local newspaper, which tells us that there are several girls who are as non-gotten.


On the other hand, in the next few hours come to Lima, Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, from Aruba. On Sunday she spoke with her son, who assured him: "I have not been. I am being accused. I am innocent."

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093734.html

Oh, my gosh!  If there are ANY women missing because of Joran...I hope it's all discovered.
According to FBI, if you kill 3 or more people, they consider you a "serial killer".  If any women were killed in Colombia.....

Wonder what Anita thinks of her little sporter now?



Well, there is Natalee and Stephany.  He also killed his dog.  I am not comparing a human to an animal.  IMO, if you can brutally kill your own pet dog, which people treat as a member of your family, it is only a small leap to kill a human.



I agree Bearly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:38:12 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 03:38:39 AM
Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.

I worry that there may be victims in Thailand.  Many poor women who have no options in life and no one to worry if they go missing.  I even wonder if he has been involved in snuff films....it makes me sick.....he is a monster.



Makes me sick too.


I am infuriated that he's again blaming his victim for her own murder.....saying he didn't  want to kill her, but she was snooping so she was at fault. Very familiar tactic and so typical of Joran. I hope Stephany's family can make him SHUT THE HELL UP.
I don't believe that story anyway. It's another lie from Joran. But he did manage to get it out there that this girl was somehow at fault. He is beyond despicable.






I have not a doubt in my mind that even if he were to go free, Stephanys family will find a way to hunt him down.  Sorry, and don/t mean to make them sound evil, but I have a feeling, he may very well feel his odds are better in a Peruvian prison......I see no end to this but a bad one.... for Urine.....
   I have to wonder if Stephany may have even been trying to sleuth Urine out....maybe trying to help Natalee, and got caught up in this horror. ...God bless this girl no matter what......I see all of our missing/murdered together looking down on us all....

His anger lies just below the surface.  I think there is an uncontrollable rage that lies in him that comes to the top with the least provocation.  I think he will go ballistic on the wrong person while he is in prison.  He will not last long, he cannot stop himself.  He started trouble in Kia and he had many luxuries there, he will never be able to hold his temper in Peru.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 03:39:23 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!
4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?



Yes - it is 2:33 am in Peru right now, 3:33 am Eastern time..
Ok, so if it's 12:35am where I am right now, what time (my time) is this press conference?

An hour and a half from now. 2 am for you. 5 am for me. But who has a press conference at 4 am? Where did this fact come from?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 03:39:48 AM
Why did he feel the need to pull her pants off?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 03:40:58 AM
xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow :-)

Klaas called him toast,
Rob called him a marshmallow,
Looks like he is gonna be a S'more.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:42:23 AM
http://elcomercio.pe/player/491307

EURobert - thank you.  This actually might give us a clearer picture of whether Joran has scratches or bruises. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:43:27 AM
xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow :-)

Klaas called him toast,
Rob called him a marshmallow,
Looks like he is gonna be a S'more.

At least the blood won't turn to chocolate in Peru....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 03:48:00 AM
Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: IBE on June 08, 2010, 03:48:02 AM
If I remember correctly, Stephany, had been told about Joran's past by her sister before the poker game.

If so, why did she go to his room, knowing that he might be a potential killer?

Did he say he'd have the money he owed her from the poker game in a room safe?
Why didn't she wait in the hotel lobby to get the money?

Was she drugged?

iMO I don't believe his confession.

Thank you Monkey Family for your Good Works.  Love, IBE



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:48:31 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

IMO the coffee could have spilled on the floor after she was dead.

The only real way to know if she was alive when he brought the coffee is if forensics determines there's coffee in the stomach contents.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:49:42 AM
Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly :)

That and why do they keep calling him a judge...these things I ask myself  :-)

Dunno as to what was in his mind regarding pulling her pants off, other than the obvious.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 03:51:32 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?


Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...

Hi XXX, how is the season going?

He had been going on about sex in a crude way that night and that he wanted some.  I think he hooked up with her and did not get any, then tried to force himself on her.  Natalee didn't have a laptop available to her and he disappeared her body.

If this is the truth, then Dave Holloway came the closest to figuring out why Stephany was killed.  He said, since it was the 5th anniversary, and a show was on TV there at 8:00, Stephany found out that way and he went off on her.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:53:44 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

IMO the coffee could have spilled on the floor after she was dead.

The only real way to know if she was alive when he brought the coffee is if forensics determines there's coffee in the stomach contents.



Could be.  Or it could be that there is no coffee in her stomach but she was alive after he brought it - but she just didn't drink any. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:54:57 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

Or, the first blow was a stunning blow and she couldn't yell

Just because Joran said they yelled doesn't make it so...in fact, IMO, makes it more unlikely



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:55:04 AM
Good night all (or G'Day actually).  Tomorrow will be a very interesting day.  I think we will learn lots.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 03:57:44 AM
Sex (or his attempt at it) was involved - we are talking about Joran, after all.

Nat didn`t have a laptop.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on June 08, 2010, 03:58:03 AM
IBE - almost missed you.  I am really, really curious as to why she went to his room in the first place - she did not appear to want to be there, IMO.

Nite all!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:58:15 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?


Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...

Hi XXX, how is the season going?

He had been going on about sex in a crude way that night and that he wanted some.  I think he hooked up with her and did not get any, then tried to force himself on her.  Natalee didn't have a laptop available to her and he disappeared her body.

If this is the truth, then Dave Holloway came the closest to figuring out why Stephany was killed.  He said, since it was the 5th anniversary, and a show was on TV there at 8:00, Stephany found out that way and he went off on her.


Hey Bearly!!  Season ended last Tuesday...although I sprained my ankle late in the 1st half.  Was on fire from 3 range when it happened.  Sucks getting old...;)

Anyway, it appears Dave is a very smafrt man!  Called it almost as it happened.  Knows how Joran's mind works...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 03:58:31 AM
Good night all (or G'Day actually).  Tomorrow will be a very interesting day.  I think we will learn lots.

See you soon, Sleuth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 03:59:57 AM
Thanks pdh3.  I thinks there are more victims too.

I worry that there may be victims in Thailand.  Many poor women who have no options in life and no one to worry if they go missing.  I even wonder if he has been involved in snuff films....it makes me sick.....he is a monster.



Makes me sick too.


I am infuriated that he's again blaming his victim for her own murder.....saying he didn't  want to kill her, but she was snooping so she was at fault. Very familiar tactic and so typical of Joran. I hope Stephany's family can make him SHUT THE HELL UP.
I don't believe that story anyway. It's another lie from Joran. But he did manage to get it out there that this girl was somehow at fault. He is beyond despicable.






I have not a doubt in my mind that even if he were to go free, Stephanys family will find a way to hunt him down.  Sorry, and don/t mean to make them sound evil, but I have a feeling, he may very well feel his odds are better in a Peruvian prison......I see no end to this but a bad one.... for Urine.....
   I have to wonder if Stephany may have even been trying to sleuth Urine out....maybe trying to help Natalee, and got caught up in this horror. ...God bless this girl no matter what......I see all of our missing/murdered together looking down on us all....

His anger lies just below the surface.  I think there is an uncontrollable rage that lies in him that comes to the top with the least provocation.  I think he will go ballistic on the wrong person while he is in prison.  He will not last long, he cannot stop himself.  He started trouble in Kia and he had many luxuries there, he will never be able to hold his temper in Peru.



That's what I'm hoping.

After all the luxuries he's had...I can see the fury building up as they take him through the prison doors and he gets his first glimpse of the hallway (way before he gets to the cell)....



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:01:14 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:04:26 AM
Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly :)

Well, that's probably a rethorical question, but I'm going to chime in with my 2 cents here (too excited about the POS confessing)  IMO....whoever is writing the piece doesn't know Paulus and they pull info from past pieces to flesh out their article.  As Aruba lied and put out PR that Paulus was tantamount to a God on their little island, most everthing previously printed about Paulus states that he was a respected lawyer, a judge in trainging, etc.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 04:04:33 AM
IBE - almost missed you.  I am really, really curious as to why she went to his room in the first place - she did not appear to want to be there, IMO.

Nite all!
Me too.  Although I'ma  little confused about this "going to his room to pay money he lost to her" theory.  In any Poker Tournament, there is a buy-in to play.  The winnings are already paid by each player who enters the tourney...so any money he would have lost to her would have already been collected by the Casino at the point of registration.  He would have no reason to retrievemoney he lost to her in his room...

I think she was drugged, and was tricked into going into his room so he could sexually assualt her. That doesn't even make sense in my theory though.  She wa found in her underwear and t-shirt, correct?  Maybe they did have sex, and he went out for coffee and breakfast (bread) for ther both of the.  And, my theory is the same as what's being reported.  H returned to find her using his laptop, and he became enraged at his loss of control...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:04:56 AM
Laten we niet te vroeg juichen - Let's not cheer to early as we say in Dutch

This is not a victory:
- Not premeditated so not murder but manslaughter.
- Not rob as motive so not life in prison

Conclusion: he’s hoping for a less than ten year conviction in a comfortable Dutch prison.


Eeewwwww!  Why does that have such a ring of truth to it?!?!?!

Can't happen, can't happen....this freak of nature just can't be let to outsmart the system...the US system needs to get him for taking the life of an American!



He needs to be put away forever, he cannot control himself, anyone and anything can set him off.  To let him go would be like playing Russian roulette with the world.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 04:06:04 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.



Bearly - I read that too.

Here are the screen shots from NG 6/7/10 for anybody who missed them.

Hotel Room Crime Scene

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:06:50 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!
4 am

Does that mean 5:00 a.m. Eastern time?



Yes - it is 2:33 am in Peru right now, 3:33 am Eastern time..
Ok, so if it's 12:35am where I am right now, what time (my time) is this press conference?

2



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 04:07:30 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.



Yes, I read that too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:07:38 AM
If I remember correctly, Stephany, had been told about Joran's past by her sister before the poker game.

If so, why did she go to his room, knowing that he might be a potential killer?

Did he say he'd have the money he owed her from the poker game in a room safe?
Why didn't she wait in the hotel lobby to get the money?

Was she drugged?

iMO I don't believe his confession.

Thank you Monkey Family for your Good Works.  Love, IBE



IBE

That's what I keep wondering...WHY...did she go to his room.  I, too, heard that she had been told about Joran by her sister.  So...WHY? 

That's why I think she was dead shortly after entering his room.  I can't believe a smart girl like her would willingly go to his room to hang out for hours.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:08:23 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.



Why the roofies?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:10:05 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

IMO the coffee could have spilled on the floor after she was dead.

The only real way to know if she was alive when he brought the coffee is if forensics determines there's coffee in the stomach contents.



Could be.  Or it could be that there is no coffee in her stomach but she was alive after he brought it - but she just didn't drink any. 

You're right...just surmising that the only way to know for "sure" would be if coffee was in the stomach contents.

With Joran, what we can't think of is more likely what happened. :)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 04:11:13 AM
Ok, my eyes are starting to cross...so I'm off to bed.  Goodnight everyone!  See you all tomorrow...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:11:26 AM
Why did he feel the need to pull her pants off?

Maybe that is the laptop he is talking about.  He did not need to drug her to sit up and talk.

He is a ticking timebomb.  I hope he tells us where Natalee is before he goes off.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 04:12:34 AM
Kudos to texasmom who tracked down Mr. Party Boy...

Living it up la vida loca style - while Jordy takes an F-DUMP in Peru!

Viva Arooba!


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/confessionssouthbeach5june101.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/confessionssouthbeach5june102.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:13:14 AM
xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow :-)

Klaas called him toast,
Rob called him a marshmallow,
Looks like he is gonna be a S'more.

At least the blood won't turn to chocolate in Peru....

Can you believe all the spit he told and they wanted Beth to accept it and go home?  Breaks my heart all over again.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 04:13:22 AM
Ok, my eyes are starting to cross...so I'm off to bed.  Goodnight everyone!  See you all tomorrow...

G`night Thirdstrike!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 04:13:29 AM
If I remember correctly, Stephany, had been told about Joran's past by her sister before the poker game.

If so, why did she go to his room, knowing that he might be a potential killer?

Did he say he'd have the money he owed her from the poker game in a room safe?
Why didn't she wait in the hotel lobby to get the money?

Was she drugged?

iMO I don't believe his confession.

Thank you Monkey Family for your Good Works.  Love, IBE



IBE

That's what I keep wondering...WHY...did she go to his room.  I, too, heard that she had been told about Joran by her sister.  So...WHY? 

That's why I think she was dead shortly after entering his room.  I can't believe a smart girl like her would willingly go to his room to hang out for hours.



I think she thought she was safe because she's a lesbian (as stated by her ex-girlfriend) and a lot of the Natalee-reports were about rape.
So I think she thought that Joran wouldn't hurt her (sexually).



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:15:20 AM
Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly :)

Because they have not been with Natalee and her case as long as we have.  It's news on the fly.  Three...two...one...roll....

Or, because he was respected by Renfro and she is the island spokesperson.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:17:20 AM
IBE - almost missed you.  I am really, really curious as to why she went to his room in the first place - she did not appear to want to be there, IMO.

Nite all!
Me too.  Although I'ma  little confused about this "going to his room to pay money he lost to her" theory.  In any Poker Tournament, there is a buy-in to play.  The winnings are already paid by each player who enters the tourney...so any money he would have lost to her would have already been collected by the Casino at the point of registration.  He would have no reason to retrievemoney he lost to her in his room...

I think she was drugged, and was tricked into going into his room so he could sexually assualt her. That doesn't even make sense in my theory though.  She wa found in her underwear and t-shirt, correct?  Maybe they did have sex, and he went out for coffee and breakfast (bread) for ther both of the.  And, my theory is the same as what's being reported.  H returned to find her using his laptop, and he became enraged at his loss of control...


Question:  it's reported that neither Joran nor Stephany were signed up for the poker tournament.  So, if they were just playing poker and he lost a lot of money to her, should he have had the money upfront or would that create a possiblity for going to his room for the money...maybe under the guise of wiring money from his account to her account?  TIA

She was an outted lesbian...why would she stay in his room if he left her to go get coffee?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: pdh3 on June 08, 2010, 04:17:27 AM
xxx - I heard $10K cash and then the $15K wire transfer also.  I'd definitely give up some years in exchange for information on Natalee's whereabouts.  I don't think hell make it in prison anyway. Rob called him a marshmallow :-)



The whereabouts of Natalee is his ace in the hole. He will hold on to that information for as long as he can....as long as he thinks it is useful to him. He has gotten a lot of mileage out of keeping the truth away from her family. He has enjoyed having the power to hurt her loved ones,and he has also enjoyed all the attention from the media and the Joran groupies. I believe he will use Natalee to the bitter end....just like Ted Bundy did with the information about his victims. LE never did get all the details they sought before Ted was executed. Ted played with them for a while and tried to use information to buy himself more time. I think Joran may try to do the same thing. I don't think he'll ever tell the full story about either one of these murders. He will be self-serving until he takes his very last breath because he is a psychopath.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:17:35 AM
If I remember correctly, Stephany, had been told about Joran's past by her sister before the poker game.

If so, why did she go to his room, knowing that he might be a potential killer?

Did he say he'd have the money he owed her from the poker game in a room safe?
Why didn't she wait in the hotel lobby to get the money?

Was she drugged?

iMO I don't believe his confession.

Thank you Monkey Family for your Good Works.  Love, IBE



Hi IBE!

Stephany's cousin told his friend about Natalee, if you listen to the tape where he says it, that is what he says, some ijot reporter transcribed it wrong and well, there you go.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 04:20:15 AM
Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:21:03 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.



Yes, I read that too.

I seem to recall that too.  Wonder if those folks gave a "time" they heard loud voices?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:21:53 AM
Why do they refer to Paulus as a respected lawyer when everyone else thought he
was a POS?

(These are things I ask myself) quietly :)

That and why do they keep calling him a judge...these things I ask myself  :-)

Dunno as to what was in his mind regarding pulling her pants off, other than the obvious.

Even though he flunked the judge thing, he still was allowed to fill in as a judge.  People do not check their facts, it's about getting the story first, not right.  Some of these reports are missing ends of sentences, they just go off to nowhere.  It's not just the language barrier, it is just sloppy work, imo.  Some of it is the language barrier, but other stuff is not.  We have seen this in all the cases.

She may have taken her pants off if her shirt was long to get comfortable in the bed.  At first, didn't they think she had a night shirt on?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 04:21:57 AM
Thanks for those very kind words last night, Bearly.

I caught them. I loved them. Thank you!

I heart you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:24:05 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.



Why the roofies?



Good point.  The roofies were probably used to wear down her resistance...we know she wasn't knocked out.

He had to have lured her to his room with some reason.  For her...it wouldn't have been sex.
Money...if he lost a lot of money to her, may the ruse was to "wire" money from his account to her account via his computer.  That would possibly be a reason for her to go to his room.

BUT it wouldn't be a reason for her to hang out for hours.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:24:19 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.



Puzzler - didn't the reports say there was coffee on the floor, suggesting that she died after he returned with the coffee?

IMO the coffee could have spilled on the floor after she was dead.

The only real way to know if she was alive when he brought the coffee is if forensics determines there's coffee in the stomach contents.



Could be.  Or it could be that there is no coffee in her stomach but she was alive after he brought it - but she just didn't drink any. 

It just seems like such a short time to wash up, pack his crap and get out of there. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:25:46 AM
IBE - almost missed you.  I am really, really curious as to why she went to his room in the first place - she did not appear to want to be there, IMO.

Nite all!

Me too.

Thanks, Sleuth, we have missed you.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:28:02 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

How come he did not go ballistic when LE touched his computer?  Or, why didn't he get rid of it during the time LE was tracking him.  He knew they were going to look for him, he dyed his hair red.  Why didn't he get rid of the laptop too, or stop at a post office and mail it to his Mom?


Because I'm not quite sure he was angered so much by what she read as much as he was angered by the act itself.  By that, I mean that a guy like Joran has to be in control at all times, and can never be challenged...especially by someone who he feels superiot to.  In this case. the simple fact that she may have saw something strange on his laptop...googled his name...and then read about his dark past.  Asking him about it most likely drove him into a fit of rage, and once that happened the poor girl had no chance.  May be as simple as that, IMO...

Hi XXX, how is the season going?

He had been going on about sex in a crude way that night and that he wanted some.  I think he hooked up with her and did not get any, then tried to force himself on her.  Natalee didn't have a laptop available to her and he disappeared her body.

If this is the truth, then Dave Holloway came the closest to figuring out why Stephany was killed.  He said, since it was the 5th anniversary, and a show was on TV there at 8:00, Stephany found out that way and he went off on her.


Hey Bearly!!  Season ended last Tuesday...although I sprained my ankle late in the 1st half.  Was on fire from 3 range when it happened.  Sucks getting old...;)

Anyway, it appears Dave is a very smafrt man!  Called it almost as it happened.  Knows how Joran's mind works...

You are not getting older, you are getting better!  Hope it heals well.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 04:29:15 AM
Joran seeks to minimize his damage, at this point. Strategize, if you will.

Only two reasons for a confession, IMO: (a) Duration of prison time, (b) Location/Quality of prison.

Sounds like his confession will need to be verified, though.

Aruba missed this most critical phase within their investigation. During this time, they felt it necessary to falsely arrest two potential scapegoats, while allowing the "obvious" suspects to frolic around.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 04:29:58 AM
Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:30:56 AM
Joran seeks to minimize his damage, at this point. Strategize, if you will.

Only two reasons for a confession, IMO: (a) Duration of prison time, (b) Location/Quality of prison.

Sounds like his confession will need to be verified, though.

Aruba missed this most critical phase within their investigation. During this time, they felt it necessary to falsely arrest two potential scapegoats, while allowing the "obvious" suspects to frolic around.

Yep!






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 04:33:08 AM
We always knew that JVDS wasn't the "sharpest tool in the shed,........ but c'mon...
(1) Computer File named "How NH was really killed - Version 27"
(2) Bag in his possession, labeled "Bloody clothes for Momma Bear to wash"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:35:28 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.



Bearly - I read that too.

Here are the screen shots from NG 6/7/10 for anybody who missed them.

Hotel Room Crime Scene

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new

Thanks, Carpe.

Geeze............

I wonder where her pants went. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 04:39:51 AM
Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

Thank you Carpe!!

This is killing me.......... LOL! I'm getting dressed to go on into work........ I'll peek in from there! If I can swing it, I'll come home around lunchtime and be ready for it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:40:52 AM
Thanks for those very kind words last night, Bearly.

I caught them. I loved them. Thank you!

I heart you.

I <3 you, too!  xo





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:42:53 AM
Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

It's 5 her time.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:44:34 AM
Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

Thank you Carpe!!

This is killing me.......... LOL! I'm getting dressed to go on into work........ I'll peek in from there! If I can swing it, I'll come home around lunchtime and be ready for it!

According to Cecilita, it is in 16 minutes.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:45:03 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.



Bearly - I read that too.

Here are the screen shots from NG 6/7/10 for anybody who missed them.

Hotel Room Crime Scene

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new

Thanks, Carpe.

Geeze............

I wonder where her pants went. 




Good questions.  I've read a number of times that clothes were strewn around the room.

Who's clothes?  Were Stephany's pants there?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 04:46:48 AM
Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

It's 5 her time.



Thanks Miss Bear!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:48:49 AM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:49:46 AM
Tomorrow we have the press conference and will find out a few things at last.

Remember just because Joran says something does not mean the Peruvian police believe it.  And it's the judges that count.

Looking forward to the press conference.

Niters, all!
4 am

bump



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:54:55 AM

Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...

The rooms had tile walls, and it looked like this room was on the end (last room before the security camera).  It may be that no one could hear.

I thought someone heard them arguing twice.



Bearly - I read that too.

Here are the screen shots from NG 6/7/10 for anybody who missed them.

Hotel Room Crime Scene

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new

Thanks, Carpe.

Geeze............

I wonder where her pants went. 




Good questions.  I've read a number of times that clothes were strewn around the room.

Who's clothes?  Were Stephany's pants there?



That's what I was wondering and if they were ripped or were they folded or hung up.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:55:44 AM
Guys, I've been reading back, but am fading fast. Do we know when the press conference is and do we know if Anita has arrived yet? TIA!!

Hi CBB - I could swear I saw someone type 2... some pages back.

I don`t know for sure.

It's 5 her time.



Thanks Miss Bear!!

You're welcome, Cutie!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 04:57:28 AM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?



The shriek heard round the world.  If that doesn't plug up that oil leak, nothing will!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 05:02:47 AM
I can just hear that old fat wind bag now...


....oooooh, the girl wanted to pry into the Sporter`s computer.

We don`t do that in Aruba. She should have left it alone!!!!

All her fault.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 05:04:46 AM
I can just hear that old fat wind bag now...


....oooooh, the girl wanted to pry into the Sporter`s computer.

We don`t do that in Aruba. She should have left it alone!!!!

All her fault.



the delicious sporter...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 05:05:36 AM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?



The shriek heard round the world.  If that doesn't plug up that oil leak, nothing will!



Good one! :)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 05:07:06 AM
I can just hear that old fat wind bag now...


....oooooh, the girl wanted to pry into the Sporter`s computer.

We don`t do that in Aruba. She should have left it alone!!!!

All her fault.



Yep!  (Not the grace under fire that Beth always displays!)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 05:11:31 AM
BRUTAL ANIMAL WITHOUT ANY MERCY WHATSOEVER

10 Punches to the face - shattering her nose and mouth.

5 Tennis racquet blows to the head, neck and all over the body

She could only be recognized by her hair.

----

Please do not ever forget this post.

Joran is a monster.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 05:14:23 AM
BRUTAL ANIMAL WITHOUT ANY MERCY WHATSOEVER

10 Punches to the face - shattering her nose and mouth.

5 Tennis racquet blows to the head, neck and all over the body

She could only be recognized by her hair.

----

Please do not ever forget this post.

Joran is a monster.

And we read in other articles that she had deep bruises on her legs....I think he kicked her, too.

He was in a frenzy!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 05:25:15 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_50.jpg)


(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Stephany.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 08, 2010, 05:35:47 AM
http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.

G'day Monkeys.

Still catching up but just a word of warning about taking the translations too literally :

A man 90 metres tall would be about 295 feet tall.  lol

Looking forward to hearing more about the charges against this waste of space.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 08, 2010, 05:42:36 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.


Edward, my understanding of how the Monkeys feel is that "The End" will only come when Natalee is returned to her family, and Beth tells us our work and support is over.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nimrod on June 08, 2010, 06:11:32 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.


Edward, my understanding of how the Monkeys feel is that "The End" will only come when Natalee is returned to her family, and Beth tells us our work and support is over.


Exactly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 06:17:23 AM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?



The shriek heard round the world.  If that doesn't plug up that oil leak, nothing will!



LOL! I'm not so sure that Anita with all her connections is going to be able to help "sporter" in any meaningful way this time. I'm thinking that regardless of the time he gets, if it's in a Peruvian prison, he's not coming out alive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sdb on June 08, 2010, 06:19:19 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08/report-van-der-sloot-confesses-peru-murder/

He Confessed


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 06:22:30 AM
A little more then 5 years since we started this journey..

The End.


Edward, my understanding of how the Monkeys feel is that "The End" will only come when Natalee is returned to her family, and Beth tells us our work and support is over.


Exactly.

Ditto. Even then, just as it has changed Beth, I think Natalee will always change each of us, too. I hope we can use the experience in as positive way as Beth has.

We're not to the end yet, though. We have a trial and hopefully, we'll get to see Natalee laid to rest away from Aruba. It's time for Natalee to come home, where those who love her can tend to her final resting place.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 06:24:50 AM
BRUTAL ANIMAL WITHOUT ANY MERCY WHATSOEVER

10 Punches to the face - shattering her nose and mouth.

5 Tennis racquet blows to the head, neck and all over the body

She could only be recognized by her hair.

----

Please do not ever forget this post.

Joran is a monster.

I put this up there with the video of Beth watching the DeVries video. Well said, Carpe! Joran is a monster and he's caused so much pain!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 06:25:52 AM
Is there a press conference in Peru going on right now? It was expected at 4 am Peru time. (2 am on our west coast, 5 am on our east coast.) What was said?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 06:32:43 AM
Is there a press conference in Peru going on right now? It was expected at 4 am Peru time. (2 am on our west coast, 5 am on our east coast.) What was said?

Not ignoring you Port Valerie! I'm looking! Nothing's been posted about it yet!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:34:21 AM
Well the alleged confession is being reported even on CNN this morning.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/08/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T1

Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot could be formally charged as early as Tuesday in the killing of Stephany Flores Ramirez, Peruvian government authorities said.

The government authorities said Van der Sloot confessed to murder late Monday. He will likely be held at one of three maximum security prisons -- Castro Castro, Piedras Gordas and Lurigancho, authorities said.

Efforts by CNN to contact van der Sloot's attorney were not immediately successful.

At his first court appearance, the judge may set a hearing date for van der Sloot and could order additional investigations in the case.

The Peruvian justice system often issues a lighter sentence in cases where the suspect confesses. That may have influenced his alleged confession.


Van der Sloot could get up to 35 years in prison. There is no death penalty or life sentence in Peru.

A Peruvian police report leaked Monday said Flores was found in his hotel room on the floor, half-dressed. The report provides new details about the hours before Flores' body was found.

Van der Sloot, who was twice arrested in connection with the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005.

According to the document, the Hotel Tac, where van der Sloot was staying, received a call from someone looking for him about 11 p.m. June 1. The receptionist forwarded the call, but no one answered. The hotel worker assumed that van der Sloot was asleep because the room key was with him and not the front desk.

About an hour later, according to the police report, the receptionist noticed that van der Sloot owed money for two nights and went up to his room, where her knocks went unanswered. The television was blaring, so the hotel employee figured he was resting, the report says.

Afterward, the hotel supervisor told the employee to go back to van der Sloot's room and enter using a spare key. When the employee went in, she found Flores' body on the floor, dressed in a black T-shirt and red panties, half-covered with a piece of white clothing, the police report said.

Flores was bleeding from her nose, the report said.

The hotel employee became frightened at the sight and went to alert her supervisor and the police, turning off the television and lights on her way out of the room, the report said.

The developments in the van der Sloot case come as the Natalee Holloway Resource Center opens in Washington Tuesday. The nonprofit center is located at the National Museum of Crime and Punishment and Natalee's mother Beth Holloway is scheduled to attend its opening.

The center is being opened to provide families of missing persons help with managing their crisis and to give students advice on traveling safely.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 06:35:08 AM
Is there a press conference in Peru going on right now? It was expected at 4 am Peru time. (2 am on our west coast, 5 am on our east coast.) What was said?

Not ignoring you Port Valerie! I'm looking! Nothing's been posted about it yet!

Thanks. It just seems like an odd time to have a press conference, so I wonder if some information came across wrong.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:41:49 AM
MSNBC is quoting the Republica newspaper in this one but I haven't seen anything in my searches yet regarding any official press conference.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37542848/ns/world_news-americas/

LIMA, Peru - Joran van der Sloot confessed to the slaying of a 21-year-old woman in a Lima hotel room, a high-ranking Peruvian government official told NBC News on Monday.

According to La Republica newspaper, van der Sloot said he broke Stephany Flores' neck after she grabbed his laptop without his permission and found out that he was involved in the disappearance of an American woman.

The paper quoted van der Sloot as saying, "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life... she didn't have any right.........


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JA on June 08, 2010, 06:42:39 AM
Maybe Joran was still figuring on cashing in on the extortion.  Could have there been some information as to where Natalee's body is?  Then if Stephany knew where it was, she could report it which would one not get him the extortion money, and two, maybe she could cash in on some reward; making Joran not getting any money?

I am also wondering if all the brusishing and bloody trauma was done in rage, after she was unconscious or even dead.

If Joran flies into these rages, I doubt Natalee and Stephany were his only two victims.

Joran may have confessed due to a lighter sentence as well as the Peruvians may have not been as nice to him, as his Aruban counterparts during questioning.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 06:44:45 AM
I wonder if the confession to an act of rage was made because if it was shown to be murder after robbery, the latter holds the death penalty or life sentence???
 
Also, does anyone have the larger version of this photo:


I haven't read everything but this is why I think he confessed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 08, 2010, 06:45:57 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.



Why the roofies?


IMHO, Joran drugged and took pics of the girls to sell.  He may have asked Stephany to come to his room to get high........with drugging and taking pics in mind.  Did she see pics on the laptop?  Think back on Lorenzo, etc.  Joran didn't make his money all on poker.  He had money to travel before the extortion.  It's not over until Dave and Beth have Natalee back.  My prayers are with them having to relive this cocky little punk's nightmare.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on June 08, 2010, 06:49:12 AM
http://www.wesh.com/news/23825980/detail.html
Van Der Sloot Confesses To Killing Woman
Stephany Flores' Battered Body Found In Hotel

POSTED: 12:41 am EDT June 8, 2010
UPDATED: 6:16 am EDT June 8, 2010
LIMA, Peru --
Dutchman Joran Van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of a U.S. teen in Aruba, has confessed to killing a young Peruvian woman in his Lima hotel room last week, a police spokesman said.

Peru's chief police spokesman, Col. Abel Gamarra, told The Associated Press that Van der Sloot admitted under police questioning Monday that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores on May 30.

The broadcaster America Television reported that Van der Sloot killed Flores in a rage after learning she had looked up information about his past on his laptop. It said it had access to details of the confession but did not cite its source.

Gamarra would not provide details of the confession. Nor would the chief of Peru's criminal police, Gen. Cesar Guardia, when the AP reached him by telephone. Guardia said only police director Gen. Miguel Hidalgo could authorize the information to be divulged. Hidalgo's cell phone rang unanswered.
Asked about the Van der Sloot confession, a brother of the victim, Enrique Flores, told the AP "we are not going to make any comment. This is in the hands of the police, of the justice system."

Van der Sloot's confession came on his third full day in Peruvian police custody, on the eve of a planned trip to the hotel in which he was to participate in a reconstruction of the events leading to Flores' slaying, Gamarra said.

Flores, a business student, was found beaten to death, her neck broken, in the 22-year-old Dutchman's hotel room. Police said the two met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video on Saturday from hotel security cameras that shows the two entering Van der Sloot's hotel room together at 5 a.m. Saturday and Van der Sloot leaving alone four hours later with his bags. Police say Van der Sloot left the hotel briefly at 8:10 a.m., returning to the room with two cups of coffee and bread purchased across the street at a supermarket.

Gamarra said the case would now be turned over to prosecutors to present formal charges and Van der Sloot will be assigned to a prison while he awaits trial. Murder convictions carry a maximum of 35 years in prison in Peru and it was not immediately clear if a confession could lead to a reduced sentence.
Van der Sloot remains the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, then 18, on the Caribbean resort island of Aruba while she was celebrating her high school graduation.

He was arrested twice in the case -- and gave a number of conflicting confessions, some in TV interviews -- but was freed for lack of evidence.

A fixture on true crime shows and in tabloids after Holloway's disappearance, he gained a reputation for lying -- even admitting a penchant for it -- and also exhibited a volatile temper. In one Dutch television interview he threw a glass of wine in a reporter's eyes. In another, he smashed a glass of water against a wall in a fury.

The 6-foot-3 (191-centimeter) -tall Van der Sloot had been held at Peruvian criminal police headquarters since arriving Saturday in a police convoy from Chile, where he was captured on Thursday.

He had crossed into Chile on Monday, nearly a day after leaving the Lima hotel -- five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance.

Flores' battered body was found on the floor in the room more than two days later. Lima's deputy medical investigator, Victor Tejada, told the AP on Monday that she was killed by blows with a blunt object, probably the tennis racket found in the hotel room.

Guardia told the AP her body was found face down and clothed with no indication of sexual assault.
In video taken of the Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police were seen searching Van der Sloot's belongings in his presence. They were shown pulling out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency.

Chilean police who questioned Van der Sloot on Thursday said he declared himself innocent of the Lima slaying but acknowledged knowing Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning and both a Dutch Embassy official and his U.S.-based attorney told the AP on Sunday that he was seeking to hire his own counsel.

The suspect's father, a former judge and attorney on the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba, died in February. Van der Sloot has two brothers.

There were indications Van der Sloot may have been traveling on money gained through extortion.

The day of his arrest in Chile, Van der Sloot was charged in the United States with trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body and describing how she died.
U.S. prosecutors say $15,000 was transferred to a Dutch bank account in his name on May 10. He arrived in Peru four days later, his visit coinciding with the runup to a June 2-5 Latin America Poker Tour tournament with a $930,000 prize pool.

Tournament organizers said Van der Sloot did not sign up to participate in the event.

Van der Sloot is an avid gambler and was known in Aruba to frequent its casino hotels, one of which was lodging Natalee Holloway.

In a lengthy 2006 interview with Greta Van Susteren on Fox News, Van der Sloot described drinking shots of rum with Holloway, whom he said he met while playing poker at an Aruba casino, then taking her to a beach and leaving her there around 3:30 a.m.

Two years later, a Dutch television crime reporter captured hidden-camera footage of Van der Sloot saying that after Holloway, drunk, collapsed on the beach while the two were kissing he asked a friend to dump her body in the sea.

"I would never murder a girl," he said.
That interview prompted authorities in Aruba to reopen the case, but Van der Sloot later said he made up the whole story and he was not charged.

The crime reporter, Peter de Vries -- the victim of the wine-throwing incident -- reported later in 2008 that Van der Sloot was recruiting Thai women in Bangkok for sex work in the Netherlands.

___

Associated Press Writers Carla Salazar in Lima, Frank Bajak in Bogota, Colombia, and Arthur Max in Amsterdam contributed to this report.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 06:50:03 AM
I remember a confession June 10, 2005 (approx)

That's what I was thinking.  He will take it all back tomorrow.

Magnolia - He doesn't have anyone to cover up for him in Peru.  It's over for Joran.  Now, if he was ever a man he needs to fess up about Natalee.

In my opinion he won't.  He blames Beth for destroying his life and he will do everything in his power to make sure she never has closure.  With Joran it's everyone else fault this happened not his.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 06:53:51 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.



Why the roofies?


IMHO, Joran drugged and took pics of the girls to sell.  He may have asked Stephany to come to his room to get high........with drugging and taking pics in mind.  Did she see pics on the laptop?   Think back on Lorenzo, etc.  Joran didn't make his money all on poker.  He had money to travel before the extortion.  It's not over until Dave and Beth have Natalee back.  My prayers are with them having to relive this cocky little punk's nightmare.

A person like Joran would have had a password on his computer.  In my opinion he is lying. She never got into his computer.

Too much to read.  Off to work.

Have a good day everyone. Justice for all his victims.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 08, 2010, 06:57:13 AM
It was on or about June 11, 2005 that they told Beth Natalee was dead and Beth collapsed in that photo.  I hope and pray they give Joran news that he is arrested and confined in that hell hole on or about June 11, 2010 - that would be such sweet karma.  I still wonder if the laptop had a camera.  If Stephany woke up stripped and in different clothes....... the laptop may have been opened and aimed.  Your life is crumbling Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sdb on June 08, 2010, 06:58:44 AM
Well the fact remains he has confessed to killing her. I don't think Peru is going to let him go like Aruba did just because he is lying about the details. I hope if they find her fingerprints on his laptop they just wipe them clean. Would serve him right. Even so wouldn't the fact that he beat her so brutally, took her vehicle and fled the country be aggravating factors? I think he is toast. Were any of her wounds from restraints of some kind?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 07:01:57 AM
I'm re-posting a segment from the British pamphlet for UK citizens arrested in Peru. I have highlighted the steps in the process. The main point is this: there does not seem to be much of a trial here, not as we understand it anyway. I don't see anything about proofs and witnesses and rules of evidence and so forth. The determination of guilt comes very quickly after the arrest. It's the exact sentence that takes a long time to determine.

Here is the UK information (blue highlights are mine, intended to itemize the steps in the process) :

I HAVE BEEN ARRESTED, WHAT COMES NEXT?

All that comes after the arrest is regulated by the Peruvian laws and authorities only, as
you have been arrested in Peru. The Peruvian Police has between 15 and 18 days to
complete the investigations of your case. During the investigations you will stay at the
Police station.
The Police officers should provide you with a detention notification, which
we have translated into English for your understanding. You can find it in Annex A.

If you are held at DIRANDRO (Dirección Nacional Antidrogas: The Peruvian Organisation
that fights drug trafficking in Peru, part of the Peruvian National Police. It is located
in San Isidro.) you will remain in a cell. There are 12 shared cells and 2
individual cells there. Your jewellery, money and personal documents, including passport,
will be taken into safekeeping. You might recover your clothes and personal items once
the investigations have finished. If you are receiving medication, this should be taken to
the prison as well. The Embassy will not be able to keep your belongings at the Embassy,
except for your passport.

At DIRANDRO the police will take your statement, but probably without an interpreter. You
will not see a public lawyer until you are in prison. It is unlikely that we would be given a
private room to discuss things when we visit you. Most of the Police Officers do not speak
English. You will have a basic medical check everyday and receive food and water. We
will provide you with some toiletries.

At DIRANDRO you will very likely to be incarcerated with foreign nationals arrested with
drugs at the international airport of Lima. Peru is one of the biggest cocaine producers in
South America and drug smuggling is a serious crime. The airport in Lima is the most
important international airport in Peru and has effective drug smuggling controls.

After investigations at the remand centre, you will be taken to the Attorney General
Office at the Public Ministry
(Fiscalía de la Nación at the Ministerio Público: The location
is in the centre of Lima.)

At the AG Office you will appear before a judge who will decide whether to press charges
against you or not. You will probably stay there for a day or two.


If you arrive on a Friday you may remain there for the weekend. At the AG Office you will
be held in a cell with other detainees. Women and men will be separated. The cells do
not have beds, but a bench and a shared bathroom. There is not much light. You will be
given water at your request, but food is generally not provided.

As soon as we know that you have arrived at the GA Office we will try to arrange a visit by
an officer from the Ombudsman Office in Lima. We would provide this Officer with some
limited funds, which would be refunded to us from your first deposit of funds from family or
friends. With those limited funds the officer should buy you some food.

At the GA Office you will be interviewed. Your statement from the Police station will be
considered. The Attorney General represents the Peruvian State and if he/she considers
you guilty, he/she will file a complaint to the judge about your offence. If the judge finds
you guilty, you will be transferred to the Justice Palace.
The Justice Palace is in the
Centre of Lima and the cells are ruled by INPE (Instituto Nacional Penitenciario. INPE
is the Peruvian Penitentiary Institute and is part of the Ministry of Justice.)

At the Justice Palace you will remain in a cell (women and men separated). If you are a man
charged for a sexual offence, you will be held in a separate cell for your own safety.
If you arrive at the Justice Palace in the morning you should stay there until the afternoon.
If you arrive at the afternoon you should remain there until next day (or during the weekend
if you arrive on a Friday).

The INPE officers will interview you and decide to which prison you will be taken. They will take
into consideration the type of crime, your background and the prison system. You will then be
transferred to a prison.


If the Attorney General does not press charges against you, you will not have to go to
the Justice Palace and the prison. This, however, does not often happen with British
nationals involved in drug smuggling.

Most of the male British nationals imprisoned for drug smuggling have been held at the
Prison of Callao, also known as “Sarita Colonia”. Callao is a province very close to Lima
and accommodates most of the British male prisoners in Peru. Most of the female British
nationals imprisoned for drug smuggling have been held at the Prison of Chorrillos,
also known as “Santa Mónica”. Chorrillos is a district very close to the Embassy
and accommodates all the British female prisoners in Peru.

The prison choice as well as any future transfer to another prison is decided and
arranged by INPE.

Once you arrive at the prison it is very likely that you will have to buy your own bed and
other personal items. Please call us. As soon as we know you have arrived in prison
we will visit you and take the following with us: a pack of toiletries, newspapers and/or
magazines and an advance of funds (approx. S/100 soles) if you need them and they
are available.

The currency in Peru is the Sol. S/.1 is roughly £ 6.25 sterling pounds.

Other British or foreign nationals imprisoned will have been through a very similar
experience and will be a source of information on the regime in prison and should be
able to help you adapt to your surroundings.

The Peruvian judicial system is slow. It generally takes one or two years for your
sentence to be decided. You will remain in prison meanwhile. Please communicate
with your lawyer if you want to speed up the process.







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 07:05:00 AM
Have a good day, San! I agree with you! Joran blames Beth for destroying his life. I hope there's some satisfaction in that for Beth.

Joran destroyed his own miserable existance and his parents enabled him to do it his whole life, I think. I just wish he hadn't taken Natalee's and Stephany's life in the process!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 08, 2010, 07:06:38 AM
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-peru-makes-evidence-public



I don't like what this says about a possible transfer to Holland.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 07:07:52 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

They should be able to do that via the timeline that he was out, if not by prints on the laptop (I know you know this and was just pointing out the reference)
I think this theory makes perfect sense to me.  He left to go get them both coffee...she's in nthe room alone...he returns to find her on his laptop...he goes nuts...kills her in a fit of rage...showers and changes clothes...leaves the oom alone to flee to Chile.  Open and shut to me.  She most likely found files on his desktop regarding the extortion plot and whatnot.  But more then  that, he's a control freks.  Once out of it, he loses all sense to sanity and becomes violent.  Same thing most likely happened to natalee...

It does seems to make sense; however, I just can't believe the two of them spent all that time in Joran's room...hours...just don't believe that happened.

I can't believe that Stephany just went to Joran's room to hang out for hours...there was a reason...collect money he owed her...maybe he used the ruse of telling her he would sell her his computer...a "reason".  Not just to hang out over-night.



Why the roofies?


IMHO, Joran drugged and took pics of the girls to sell.  He may have asked Stephany to come to his room to get high........with drugging and taking pics in mind.  Did she see pics on the laptop?   Think back on Lorenzo, etc.  Joran didn't make his money all on poker.  He had money to travel before the extortion.  It's not over until Dave and Beth have Natalee back.  My prayers are with them having to relive this cocky little punk's nightmare.

A person like Joran would have had a password on his computer.  In my opinion he is lying. She never got into his computer.

Too much to read.  Off to work.

Have a good day everyone. Justice for all his victims.

San, I completely agree with you.

When has he ever told the truth?

If it were possible to discover the pretense he used to get Stephany to his room, I think only then would it be possible to analyze and determine the reason he killed her. Unfortunately it appears only he and Stephany know what his ruse was to get her there.

And beyond the animalistic inhumane brutality of his attack, why tear her jeans off? Jeans in this day and age don't just fall off or slip off easily. Was he trying to make it appear to be a sexual attack before leaving?

So many questions and I just find it ironic that Beth is in DC to open this new center within 24 hours of his confession.........



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 08, 2010, 07:09:39 AM
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-peru-makes-evidence-public


The media in Peru has already decided that Dutchman Joran van der Sloot is guilty of murdering 21-year-old Stephany Flores. After he was handed over to Peruvian police officials, Joran van der Sloot was paraded before the press three times. Video footage of his first hearing can also be found on the internet. The Dutch foreign ministry is considering its reaction. 
 
Peruvian Interior Minister Octavio Salazar has guaranteed that Joran van der Sloot will be given a fair trial. However, meanwhile all kinds of evidence against the Dutchman has been made public.
 
The Peruvian police say initial forensic investigations clearly indicate Joran van der Sloot's involvement int the murder. Police say the victim was beaten to death with a tennis racket. There is video footage showing the suspect and the young woman arriving at his hotelin the Peruvian capital, Lima.

Natalee Holloway
Joran van der Sloot is already a well-known figure in the United States, the Netherlands and in Aruba, for he has been the main suspect for several years in the case of the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba in 2005.

It is still not known what actually happened to Ms Holloway, and Joran van der Sloot has not been formally charged in connection with her disappearance.
 
No protest
The Dutch embassy in Peru, contrary to earlier reports, has not protested against the release of incriminating evidence. The foreign ministry is still considering whether it will give an official reaction to how the case is being handled. A spokesperson for the ministry told Radio Netherlands Worldwide: "I have asked at the ministry how we should deal with this."
 
Generally, the Netherlands never interferes with legal processes in other countries, but there may well be reason to protest in this case. After all, the suspect claims he's innocent of murdering Stephany Flores.
 
His American lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, has come to his assistance. He asked on Peruvian television how it was possible that the body of Ms Flores could have been in Joran van der Sloot's hotel room for three days without anyone noticing.
 
Extradition
Peru and the Netherlands do not have a mutual treaty for the return of nationals to serve their sentences in their home nation. Although negotiations for the transfer of prisoners have been taking place, it is not clear when agreement might be reached.
 
Even if such a treaty is agreed after his possible conviction, Joran van der Sloot will be able to apply to be transferred back to the Netherlands on condition that the two countries have no objections and the convicted person also agrees. It is too early to say whether Peru would cooperate with a transfer.
 
Robbery
It looks as if robbery was the motive of the murder. Ms Flores' father says jewellery was missing. An amount of 1,000 dollars. which he had given her to buy a laptop, was not found on the victim or in the hotel room.
 
Joran van der Sloot is being held in a police cell in Lima. His custody has been extended for a further seven days. A cell has been reserved for him at the infamous high security Castro Castro prison, which has some 4,000 inmates.

In Lima, stories are circulating about how inmates deal with rapists and murderers of children and women within the prison walls. If Joran van der Sloot is found guilty of murder with robbery, he could facing a 25-year sentence. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 07:15:43 AM
What would cause green bruises ?? never heard of that before..

I can't see a tennis raquet being the "cause" of death..I wouldn't think it was heavy enough to break a neck....maybe I'm wrong

One of the first reports was that Stephany's death was from a brain hemmorhage. She was hit in head with a blunt object (possibly racket).

The official autopsy report has not been released yet, so not verified as fact.
I'll try and find my post with the info for you SS.

As far as the "green" bruises......not sure, but we in the US describe bruises as black and blue marks...
maybe they say "green"....bruises can look green, black, blue, purple, yellow...maybe they looked green?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 07:27:06 AM
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-peru-makes-evidence-public



I don't like what this says about a possible transfer to Holland.

Peru will never let him go. They have the jackpot and want to see him suffer.
He, who killed an innocent Peruvian girl.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: anothermonkey on June 08, 2010, 07:31:21 AM
Why would this girl look at his laptop while he was gone? Perhaps while he was out getting them some coffee and bread..  her family had no idea who Joran was, so why would she have been looking him up online?  Seems odd..  unless he said he was famous, and curiosity got the better of her?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 07:33:22 AM
In regard to "green" bruises:  a bruise is caused when trauma to an area causes blood to gather at the spot of trauma, initially, the bruise is red for a few minutes; as the blood loses oxygen, the bruise turns blue for a few days; as the blood breaks down, the bruise turns green for a few days and then yellow for a few days before the bruise goes away.

Thanks for the explanation....mine just seem to go from purple to yellow...never seen green...

so those may have been the first blows ? knocking her down of maybe dragging her across something hard...just thinking out loud

I just woke up and am many pages behind...forgive if this has been addressed and I have not seen it yet.....

All of the above (as darleen described) would be from a living person ... but once a person is dead there is no blood flow. The stages of bruising still happen after death?? This seems impossible, but maybe not.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 07:37:19 AM
Why would this girl look at his laptop while he was gone? Perhaps while he was out getting them some coffee and bread..  her family had no idea who Joran was, so why would she have been looking him up online?  Seems odd..  unless he said he was famous, and curiosity got the better of her?

As usual, he was probably lying.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: sharon on June 08, 2010, 07:40:10 AM
WOW WOW WOW

I have to leave the house for the day -- but just caught the news.

WOW WOW WOW

I need to read up tonight before I form an opinion.

My first question however --if he 'hit' her out of anger because she violated his personal space (I watched the Today show) --  when did her pants fall off??

My lingering question is still how could Stephany not know who he was in the casino?

Oh boy. Here we go.

5 years. I hope it is finally unraveling.

I STAND WITH THE GIRLS and their families
Justice for Natalee and Stephany




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 07:43:31 AM
Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.

Thanks Klaas, I thought so too.

The ISA graduation was Saturday and it looks like a lot of the seniors went to the Confessions club to party afterward.  Those are the pictures with Valentijn.  He was at the graduation also....didn't see Anita or Sebastian in that group of pics.

I thought it was said he goes to Emerson College in Boston. What college kid goes back to the graduation parties of the high school "babies"? This is a weird family.

School's Out For Summer! .... must partaaaaaayyyyyyyy!

I suppose Joran thinks by confessing he can't be charged, as we have seen so many times in the past. Me thinks He thinks WRONG, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 08, 2010, 07:43:33 AM
This new murder case has been mentioned in our TV and radio newscasts since it happened .  Now the confession has made our newspapers :

Van der Sloot 'confesses to murder of Lima woman'

    * By staff writers
    * From: NewsCore
    * June 08, 2010 5:27PM

JORAN van der Sloot has confessed to the May 30 murder of Lima woman Stephany Flores Ramirez.

A high-ranking Peruvian government official told NBC News that van der Sloot had confessed, following reports in the La Republica newspaper that said he broke Flores' neck after she used his laptop without his permission and found out he was involved in the murder of the American.

According to the newspaper the Dutchman, who is also the prime suspect in US teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance, explained that his anger exploded and said: "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."

Police said van der Sloot met the 21-year-old Flores, the daughter of a Peruvian former race car driver, while playing poker at a casino.

On Saturday, they released security footage of the two of them entering his room but only he left. Her battered body was found in the hotel room two days later with her neck broken.

Van der Sloot was detained in Chile on Thursday, and police handed him over to the Peruvians at the border town of Tacna on Friday.

Investigators said he left Lima the day after the murder for Chile in 1287km taxi ride to the border.

Van der Sloot was also at the centre of another criminal inquiry in 2005, when he was named as a key suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, an 18-year-old US student visiting the Dutch-run Caribbean island of Aruba, who was also murdered on May 30.

In that case, van der Sloot was twice arrested, but charges were never brought against him because of lack of evidence. Holloway's body was never found.

Van der Sloot was later videotaped saying Holloway died after suffering a seizure and that an acquaintance helped him dump the body into the sea.

But later said he had made the comments under the influence of marijuana.

Van der Sloot was charged on Thursday in the US for trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body and describing how she died.

Peruvian President Alan Garcia said Friday that van der Sloot would first have to be tried for Flores' death before any extradition request could be considered.

The maximum sentence for murder in Peru is 25 years prison.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/van-der-sloot-confesses-to-murder-of-lima-woman/story-e6freoox-1225877136823



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 07:45:17 AM
In regard to "green" bruises:  a bruise is caused when trauma to an area causes blood to gather at the spot of trauma, initially, the bruise is red for a few minutes; as the blood loses oxygen, the bruise turns blue for a few days; as the blood breaks down, the bruise turns green for a few days and then yellow for a few days before the bruise goes away.

Thanks for the explanation....mine just seem to go from purple to yellow...never seen green...

so those may have been the first blows ? knocking her down of maybe dragging her across something hard...just thinking out loud

I just woke up and am many pages behind...forgive if this has been addressed and I have not seen it yet.....

All of the above (as darleen described) would be from a living person ... but once a person is dead there is no blood flow. The stages of bruising still happen after death?? This seems impossible, but maybe not.

I have some personal experience with this one, Nut. Mom's face was badly bruised, and she was killed instantly (dead on the scene) from a car wreck. When the providers get here, I'll ask how that happens. Blood will stop pumping when the heart stops, but blood can flow from an injury. Generally there isn't much blood unless a person's heart is beating.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 08, 2010, 07:45:25 AM
Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 07:48:56 AM
BRUTAL ANIMAL WITHOUT ANY MERCY WHATSOEVER

10 Punches to the face - shattering her nose and mouth.

5 Tennis racquet blows to the head, neck and all over the body

She could only be recognized by her hair.

----

Please do not ever forget this post.

Joran is a monster.

The problem is that our kids and our women are looking for monsters so they can avoid them.  We need to teach them that they are people who act like monsters, are often very charming, appealing, and appear harmless.  Just about everyone is a potential monster.  It sounds crazy, but it's true. 

Don't be alone with anyone who you don't know or who wants to isolate you, taking you away from your surroundings.  Don't leave your friends and always make someone the DD.  Don't let your friends go off with anyone.  They may be angry at you tonight, but they will be alive in the morning.

But then, what about the people that we do know that suddenly act like monsters?  How can you spot a monster, when they look like people?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 07:56:46 AM
Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 08:00:25 AM
Sorry I jumped ahead and just woke up and saw this

WHAT


Van Der Sloot Confesses To Peru Slaying
Stephany Flores' Battered Body Found In Hotel

POSTED: 12:41 am EDT June 8, 2010
UPDATED: 6:50 am EDT June 8, 2010

LIMA, Peru -- Dutchman Joran Van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of a U.S. teen in Aruba, has confessed to killing a young Peruvian woman in his Lima hotel room last week, a police spokesman said.

Peru's chief police spokesman, Col. Abel Gamarra, told The Associated Press that Van der Sloot admitted under police questioning Monday that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores on May 30.

The broadcaster America Television reported that Van der Sloot killed Flores in a rage after learning she had looked up information about his past on his laptop. It said it had access to details of the confession but did not cite its source.

Gamarra would not provide details of the confession. Nor would the chief of Peru's criminal police, Gen. Cesar Guardia, when the AP reached him by telephone. Guardia said only police director Gen. Miguel Hidalgo could authorize the information to be divulged. Hidalgo's cell phone rang unanswered.

Asked about the Van der Sloot confession, a brother of the victim, Enrique Flores, told the AP "we are not going to make any comment. This is in the hands of the police, of the justice system."

Van der Sloot's confession came on his third full day in Peruvian police custody, on the eve of a planned trip to the hotel in which he was to participate in a reconstruction of the events leading to Flores' slaying, Gamarra said.

Flores, a business student, was found beaten to death, her neck broken, in the 22-year-old Dutchman's hotel room. Police said the two met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video on Saturday from hotel security cameras that shows the two entering Van der Sloot's hotel room together at 5 a.m. Saturday and Van der Sloot leaving alone four hours later with his bags. Police say Van der Sloot left the hotel briefly at 8:10 a.m., returning to the room with two cups of coffee and bread purchased across the street at a supermarket.

Gamarra said the case would now be turned over to prosecutors to present formal charges and Van der Sloot will be assigned to a prison while he awaits trial. Murder convictions carry a maximum of 35 years in prison in Peru and it was not immediately clear if a confession could lead to a reduced sentence.

Van der Sloot remains the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, then 18, on the Caribbean resort island of Aruba while she was celebrating her high school graduation.

He was arrested twice in the case -- and gave a number of conflicting confessions, some in TV interviews -- but was freed for lack of evidence.

A fixture on true crime shows and in tabloids after Holloway's disappearance, he gained a reputation for lying -- even admitting a penchant for it -- and also exhibited a volatile temper. In one Dutch television interview he threw a glass of wine in a reporter's eyes. In another, he smashed a glass of water against a wall in a fury.

The 6-foot-3 (191-centimeter) -tall Van der Sloot had been held at Peruvian criminal police headquarters since arriving Saturday in a police convoy from Chile, where he was captured on Thursday.

He had crossed into Chile on Monday, nearly a day after leaving the Lima hotel -- five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance.

Flores' battered body was found on the floor in the room more than two days later. Lima's deputy medical investigator, Victor Tejada, told the AP on Monday that she was killed by blows with a blunt object, probably the tennis racket found in the hotel room.

Guardia told the AP her body was found face down and clothed with no indication of sexual assault.

In video taken of the Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police were seen searching Van der Sloot's belongings in his presence. They were shown pulling out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency.

Chilean police who questioned Van der Sloot on Thursday said he declared himself innocent of the Lima slaying but acknowledged knowing Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning and both a Dutch Embassy official and his U.S.-based attorney told the AP on Sunday that he was seeking to hire his own counsel.

The suspect's father, a former judge and attorney on the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba, died in February. Van der Sloot has two brothers.

There were indications Van der Sloot may have been traveling on money gained through extortion.

The day of his arrest in Chile, Van der Sloot was charged in the United States with trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body and describing how she died.

U.S. prosecutors say $15,000 was transferred to a Dutch bank account in his name on May 10. He arrived in Peru four days later, his visit coinciding with the runup to a June 2-5 Latin America Poker Tour tournament with a $930,000 prize pool.

Tournament organizers said Van der Sloot did not sign up to participate in the event.

Van der Sloot is an avid gambler and was known in Aruba to frequent its casino hotels, one of which was lodging Natalee Holloway.

In a lengthy 2006 interview with Greta Van Susteren on Fox News, Van der Sloot described drinking shots of rum with Holloway, whom he said he met while playing poker at an Aruba casino, then taking her to a beach and leaving her there around 3:30 a.m.

Two years later, a Dutch television crime reporter captured hidden-camera footage of Van der Sloot saying that after Holloway, drunk, collapsed on the beach while the two were kissing he asked a friend to dump her body in the sea.

"I would never murder a girl," he said.

That interview prompted authorities in Aruba to reopen the case, but Van der Sloot later said he made up the whole story and he was not charged.

The crime reporter, Peter de Vries -- the victim of the wine-throwing incident -- reported later in 2008 that Van der Sloot was recruiting Thai women in Bangkok for sex work in the Netherlands.

___


Associated Press Writers Carla Salazar in Lima, Frank Bajak in Bogota, Colombia, and Arthur Max in Amsterdam contributed to this report.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/23825980/detail.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 08:06:32 AM
OHMYGAWD!  Prayers are answered. Justice still lives!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 08:08:12 AM
Jean Caseraz (sp?), who's in Peru, says that in Joran's room was found a woman's small white leather purse with jewels on it and in videos of Stephany no white purse is seen.

Who's purse is it?  Has he been stealing purses for money?




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 08:09:16 AM
Kudos to texasmom who tracked down Mr. Party Boy...

Living it up la vida loca style - while Jordy takes an F-DUMP in Peru!

Viva Arooba!


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/confessionssouthbeach5june101.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/confessionssouthbeach5june102.jpg)

These are from the ISA Graduation earlier that evening.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Van%20der%20Sloot/06052010_RandValentijnOliviaNatalie.jpg)

Rand Zeolla, Valentijn van der Sloot, Olivia Zeolla, Natalie van Hamburg, Mashelle and Rick Zeolla.  He is the former GM of the Marriott and long time AHATA board member.  iirc he was President of the AHATA board at one time.  He is now the GM at the Marriott in Cairo Egypt.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Van%20der%20Sloot/06052010_NatalievanHamburgValentijn.jpg)

Natalie van Hamburg and Valentijn van der Sloot

In 2005 I believe that Natalie was Valentijn's girlfriend.  She and her family left the island in 2007 iirc, but they return often and all of these families are very close even spending holiday's together.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 08:11:18 AM
If she saw anything on his laptop, imo...it would be something recent. She didn't have a lot of time to dig for stuff.

Scenerio:
The laptop was on w/ screensaver covering screen...Joran goes out for drinks...she touches laptop and screensaver goes poof and TADA ---
On laptop screen is info re: the new charges brought forth by Alabama/FBI, etc. re: extortion, etc., in Natalee's case.  She knows he is a 'wanted man'. Just then, Joran comes back and catches her reading it and flips out...

Not sure I believe the laptop confession, but the above could have happened (or something similar), if true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 08:16:37 AM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?



The shriek heard round the world.  If that doesn't plug up that oil leak, nothing will!


LOL!   



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 08:18:01 AM
Glenda Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:47 pm       

JoJoe wrote:
He came back into the room after getting the coffee, saw her on his comp and flipped. he had private stuff about Natalee on his comp, maybe he kept journals on there about what had happened and what he had done. She saw it and he couldn't let it get out into the public so he had to shut her up, he just didn't plan on getting caught. But now that he did there gonna see whats on the comp anyways, He has no other choice but to confess. I see it happening the way he said. But thats just a thought from me on how this confession could makes since. IDK



Then he gave up his computer to the Chilean Authorities .... who gave it to Peru... Sorry, but the only way you can delete something from your computer is to burn it and throw it in the ocean, otherwise, the FBI can see everything you've ever done, written or messaged and JORAN KNOWS THIS, and SO DOES THE DUTCH AUTHORITIES who have had access to the suspects computer all along... Will they step in? JMO he set them up to help him.


Hmmm  this may be right he opened the door to the Netherlands. He rather take the his prison time in Netherland for the Death of Natalee instead of Peru for Stephany 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 08:20:50 AM
If she saw anything on his laptop, imo...it would be something recent. She didn't have a lot of time to dig for stuff.

Scenerio:
The laptop was on w/ screensaver covering screen...Joran goes out for drinks...she touches laptop and screensaver goes poof and TADA ---
On laptop screen is info re: the new charges brought forth by Alabama/FBI, etc. re: extortion, etc., in Natalee's case.  She knows he is a 'wanted man'. Just then, Joran comes back and catches her reading it and flips out...

Not sure I believe the laptop confession, but the above could have happened (or something similar), if true.

Natalie's dad might have been correct when he threw out his theory.....
May 30th, the 5 year anniversary of Natalie's disappearance/murder, many media websites had coverage of this...started about 8am US time. Joran went for coffee at 8:15am Peru time (9:15am US time)
So it is possible if she googled Joran, the latest news would come up first......poor girl couldn't run fast enough to escape the clutches of the monster murderer!

MURDERER!!!!!!!  YES, ANITA, JORAN IS A MURDERER!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 08:21:05 AM
OHMYGAWD!  Prayers are answered. Justice still lives!!

Ditto !!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 08:23:59 AM
Glenda Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:27 am       

darleenofalabama wrote:
Well, Glenda, I think we all know he knows quite a bit about throwing things in the ocean. That said, I've heard that you actually made a twisted statement blaming Beth, indirectly, for his being able to be in Peru, therefore available to murder Stephany. If that's true, you can just take that back. That's a sick thing to say and you know it's not true, so do the decent thing and apologize; apologize even if you didn't mean it to sound that way because plenty of people think you did.



I apologize, even though your accusation is not accurate from this post. Bottom line, Beth is not responsible for what happened to Natalee or Stephany.
[/color]


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 08:25:01 AM
IMO she didn't see anything on Joran's computer

I can't imagine all the "bad" stuff he has on it

With all that bad stuff I just believe he would have a "password"

Stephany wouldn't know his password

Neither would Peru LE....as soon as they had to ask for the password...I hope the lightbulb came on and they realized Joran is lying about Stephany and the computer.

Of course he would say he left it up, but I wouldn't believe that for one second.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 08:26:31 AM
WOW WOW WOW

I have to leave the house for the day -- but just caught the news.

WOW WOW WOW

I need to read up tonight before I form an opinion.

My first question however --if he 'hit' her out of anger because she violated his personal space (I watched the Today show) --  when did her pants fall off??

My lingering question is still how could Stephany not know who he was in the casino?

Oh boy. Here we go.

5 years. I hope it is finally unraveling.

I STAND WITH THE GIRLS and their families
Justice for Natalee and Stephany




There's been reports that Stephany's sister had talked to her about Joran....some time before the poker tournament time



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 08:27:54 AM
Jean Caseraz (sp?), who's in Peru, says that in Joran's room was found a woman's small white leather purse with jewels on it and in videos of Stephany no white purse is seen.

Who's purse is it?  Has he been stealing purses for money?




Earlier it was said that Stephany had a small white purse with "Flower Power" on it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nimrod on June 08, 2010, 08:28:03 AM
Jean Caseraz (sp?), who's in Peru, says that in Joran's room was found a woman's small white leather purse with jewels on it and in videos of Stephany no white purse is seen.

Who's purse is it?  Has he been stealing purses for money?





I thought I saw something white in her left hand when she was walking behind Joran in the office. Also, at first, it looked like she was holding something very small in her right hand. Anyone else see that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 08:30:19 AM
If she saw anything on his laptop, imo...it would be something recent. She didn't have a lot of time to dig for stuff.

Scenerio:
The laptop was on w/ screensaver covering screen...Joran goes out for drinks...she touches laptop and screensaver goes poof and TADA ---
On laptop screen is info re: the new charges brought forth by Alabama/FBI, etc. re: extortion, etc., in Natalee's case.  She knows he is a 'wanted man'. Just then, Joran comes back and catches her reading it and flips out...

Not sure I believe the laptop confession, but the above could have happened (or something similar), if true.

Would have had to be "something similar," as you say, not that exactly. The news about the extortion charge didn't come out until the middle of the following week. Not in the news anyway. I suppose he might have received some emails from the Aruba people about it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: the big hammer on June 08, 2010, 08:31:19 AM
Another Confession...

LIMA, Peru -- Dutchman Joran Van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of a U.S. teen in Aruba, has confessed to killing a young Peruvian woman in his Lima hotel room last week, a police spokesman said.

Well, this should preclude Tacopina's theory about a third person hiding in the hotel room.

Unfortunately, the goon's long history of numerous previous confessions -- all of which turned out to be either false or incomplete -- overshadows his latest admission of murder.

In takes unusual circumstances, imo, for a computer search to yield real-world fatal consequences given the circumstances described: he found her on his computer when returning with coffee and bread, looking at certain files, so he killed her.

Hhhmm.  This description of the events is almost impossible to believe.  But, like all of the goon's references to his known victims, he takes the path of blaming his victim for her own demise.  He continues to off-load accountability.  He cannot take personal responsibility for his actions.  He remains in denial about what he is, what he does, and why.

Previous posts underscore the motive of robbery + murder, which in this jurisdiction evidently carries longer prison terms than even rape + murder.  An interesting comment on societal mores at work here.  Is the goon this calculating -- could he have weighed the odds, etc? Does he even have an attorney who could properly advise him to plead in hopes of leniency?  Have official charges even been brought yet?  Has he been indicted -- or equivalent of same?  Does this evolve into a "crime of passion" -- the kind of offense which gains special sympathy in Latin American cultures?

This "confession", imo, leaves more open questions than providing real answers.

The only thing I'd suggest as true here, is that this latest confession is a lie.

Based on what appears as known facts, we do know the goon's cash supply had dwindled, that he was attempting to extort money, that he performed less than optimally at the gaming tables in Peru --

Robbery, with a sexual assault appetizer, more than likely.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 08:31:27 AM
He killed her.
He know they know and have the evidence to prove it.
He is legal smart.
He probably knows that Peru gives lighter sentences when a confession is made (or he was told by LE to make it easier on himself and confess)
He probably is trying to get charged with manslaughter, rather than murder (not sure that's gonna happen)
Difference between manslaugher and murder is 10-15 years
Heard on TV from an international attorney that a prisoner has to serve one-third to one-half the sentenced time before being eligible for parole
Same international attorney said he has had trials in approx. 24 different countries and the prisons in Peru are by far the worst



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 08:32:14 AM
One thing I give the Peruvians - think about how transparent they have been with video footage all along.  I think there is more to come..
i would love to see the video when he left the hotel for coffe. He must wear the clothes he wore when he got in to the hotel with stepany

Exactly!  If they obtained the footage of then entering and him leaving, I am sure that will come out as well.

I hope we will get to see it too. LE has to have all the footage...that is why they know for a fact that no one else was in that room.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 08:32:50 AM
I don't believe for one bit that she saw information about killing Natalee on his laptop.
If she did, why didn't she get the hell out of the hotel?
No, something else happened.
I still think it's plausible that he wanted her to make an online money transfer and she refused.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 08:33:10 AM
Well he did confess to the death of Natalee too remember something bad happened,just saying


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 08:34:29 AM
Why would this girl look at his laptop while he was gone? Perhaps while he was out getting them some coffee and bread..  her family had no idea who Joran was, so why would she have been looking him up online?  Seems odd..  unless he said he was famous, and curiosity got the better of her?

As usual, he was probably lying.

I think so too-in his mind, he thinks this justifies his murdering her, imo.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 08:37:38 AM
Another Confession...

LIMA, Peru -- Dutchman Joran Van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of a U.S. teen in Aruba, has confessed to killing a young Peruvian woman in his Lima hotel room last week, a police spokesman said.

Well, this should preclude Tacopina's theory about a third person hiding in the hotel room.

Unfortunately, the goon's long history of numerous previous confessions -- all of which turned out to be either false or incomplete -- overshadows his latest admission of murder.

In takes unusual circumstances, imo, for a computer search to yield real-world fatal consequences given the circumstances described: he found her on his computer when returning with coffee and bread, looking at certain files, so he killed her.

Hhhmm.  This description of the events is almost impossible to believe.  But, like all of the goon's references to his known victims, he takes the path of blaming his victim for her own demise.  He continues to off-load accountability.  He cannot take personal responsibility for his actions.  He remains in denial about what he is, what he does, and why.

Previous posts underscore the motive of robbery + murder, which in this jurisdiction evidently carries longer prison terms than even rape + murder.  An interesting comment on societal mores at work here.  Is the goon this calculating -- could he have weighed the odds, etc? Does he even have an attorney who could properly advise him to plead in hopes of leniency?  Have official charges even been brought yet?  Has he been indicted -- or equivalent of same?  Does this evolve into a "crime of passion" -- the kind of offense which gains special sympathy in Latin American cultures?

This "confession", imo, leaves more open questions than providing real answers.

The only thing I'd suggest as true here, is that this latest confession is a lie.

Based on what appears as known facts, we do know the goon's cash supply had dwindled, that he was attempting to extort money, that he performed less than optimally at the gaming tables in Peru --

Robbery, with a sexual assault appetizer, more than likely.

.

Well said Hammer!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 08:41:44 AM
Maybe Joran had a reminder set on his computer calendar.....a little pop-up the morning of May 30th

"My 5 year anniversary......got away with murdering Natalie"

Joran is arrogant and evil enough........


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 08:42:46 AM
From what I've read, Joran may get a somewhat lighter sentence for confessing, but IMO, it doesn't matter. I firmly believe if he goes in to start serving a sentence inside a Peruvian prison, he'll never come out alive.

As far as his chances of NOT serving time in a Peruvian prison but being able to serve the time in Holland................ I haven't seen anything that would force Peru to agree to that. I really think that Peru wants to keep him and I'm betting/hoping that they aren't going to let that trophy that they paraded around, go so easily.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 08:50:43 AM
From what I've read, Joran may get a somewhat lighter sentence for confessing, but IMO, it doesn't matter. I firmly believe if he goes in to start serving a sentence inside a Peruvian prison, he'll never come out alive.

As far as his chances of NOT serving time in a Peruvian prison but being able to serve the time in Holland................ I haven't seen anything that would force Peru to agree to that. I really think that Peru wants to keep him and I'm betting/hoping that they aren't going to let that trophy that they paraded around, go so easily.

IMO Joran's @ss is staying in Peru.....much to the delight of hundreds other Peruvian prisoners!

Momma Sloot better FedEx that butt plug!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
From what I've read, Joran may get a somewhat lighter sentence for confessing, but IMO, it doesn't matter. I firmly believe if he goes in to start serving a sentence inside a Peruvian prison, he'll never come out alive.

As far as his chances of NOT serving time in a Peruvian prison but being able to serve the time in Holland................ I haven't seen anything that would force Peru to agree to that. I really think that Peru wants to keep him and I'm betting/hoping that they aren't going to let that trophy that they paraded around, go so easily.

IMO Joran's @ss is staying in Peru.....much to the delight of hundreds other Peruvian prisoners!

Momma Sloot better FedEx that butt plug!

With all that Stephany's father has done for the Peruvian police and how highly they think of him....and all the other connections the father is supposed to have, too....it will only take one word from the father and it's all over for Joran.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 08:54:07 AM
In regard to "green" bruises:  a bruise is caused when trauma to an area causes blood to gather at the spot of trauma, initially, the bruise is red for a few minutes; as the blood loses oxygen, the bruise turns blue for a few days; as the blood breaks down, the bruise turns green for a few days and then yellow for a few days before the bruise goes away.

Thanks for the explanation....mine just seem to go from purple to yellow...never seen green...

so those may have been the first blows ? knocking her down of maybe dragging her across something hard...just thinking out loud

I just woke up and am many pages behind...forgive if this has been addressed and I have not seen it yet.....

All of the above (as darleen described) would be from a living person ... but once a person is dead there is no blood flow. The stages of bruising still happen after death?? This seems impossible, but maybe not.

I have some personal experience with this one, Nut. Mom's face was badly bruised, and she was killed instantly (dead on the scene) from a car wreck. When the providers get here, I'll ask how that happens. Blood will stop pumping when the heart stops, but blood can flow from an injury. Generally there isn't much blood unless a person's heart is beating.

CBB, I just want to wrap you up in a big old hug, grab a bottle of wine and go watch the lightning bugs together for awhile under the moonlight on the beach.  ((((CBB))))

Then grab some hunks and dance the stress away like in Mama Mia.

I wish you didn't know that from experience.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 08:54:59 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/natalee-holloways-dad-speaks-10853748

Natalee Holloway dad speaks


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sdb on June 08, 2010, 08:55:42 AM
Jean Caseraz (sp?), who's in Peru, says that in Joran's room was found a woman's small white leather purse with jewels on it and in videos of Stephany no white purse is seen.

Who's purse is it?  Has he been stealing purses for money?




Maybe "purse" was actually a "wallet" she had in her pocket. Translation confusion?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 08:56:05 AM
Fox News said LE is supposed to do a "reenactment" at the scene of Room 309 later today.  I believe they're going to take Joran there, too.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 08:56:21 AM
Do you think if he really knows where Daddy put Natalee he will tell us now?
Also if he does will the Netherlands arrest him so he goes to serve his  sentence  there first?
Or does Peru  get him first..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 08:56:55 AM
Is there a manslaughter charge available in Peru??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 08:59:14 AM
The Peruvian police will likely issue a written Press Release at the news conference.  We will be able to get a copy and see what it hsa to say.  They can release evidence because there is no jury pool to contaminate as it is a 3 member panel of judges.

Because Joran says it doesn't mean the judges have to believe him.

Let's wait and see what LE has to say. 

It's amazing that it took LE only 48 hours to extract a confession and ALE didn't in 5 years.  And even if he takes it all back, anything said can still be used against him with the judgese deciding on the merit of  it.

He can wait up to 2 years for an actual trial.  I will be amazed if he survives to stand trial if it takes 2 years.

Will be interesting to watch the Arubans and Dutch try to spin this.  "After all, Joran DOES now say he did this"

I think that is what the judges are going to hear.  But I remain hopeful that something about Natalee was found.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Jean Caseraz (sp?), who's in Peru, says that in Joran's room was found a woman's small white leather purse with jewels on it and in videos of Stephany no white purse is seen.

Who's purse is it?  Has he been stealing purses for money?




Earlier it was said that Stephany had a small white purse with "Flower Power" on it.


I believe Casarez said it had "Flower Power" on it now that you mention it.  It must have been her purse then, but while Jean was talking, they were still trying to track down who's purse it was.

Also, carrying something small in one hand...could that have been her car keys?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Mary on June 08, 2010, 09:00:57 AM
Well I for one do not believe what he is saying. I think LE said the putor they
found was hers. I remember thinking Oh good she did buy one out of the
money her dad gave. Also remember he said he couldn't remember where he
stayed, so he had no baggage at all. I think he mailed his computor to his
mom or lawyer or someone. Also the clothes that they said had blood spatter
on them could very well be hair dye. They haven't tested them yet. He just
told them a story to shut them up and leave him alone. We probably will hear
3 more versions of what happened in that room. LIES_LIES_LIES.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 09:01:30 AM
Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

Killing someone with a gun leaves you out of reach of the victim, so you don't feel anything.
Killing someone with a knife, bat, pillow, or other instrument gets you closer to the victim.  Sometimes the person cannot go through with it because of that.
Killing someone with your bare hands where you are actually touching their person, twisting her, hitting her, breaking her, and kicking her with your own body is beyond words.  Body to body contact where you are hurting someone and you know it is barbaric.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 09:02:09 AM
WOW WOW WOW

I have to leave the house for the day -- but just caught the news.

WOW WOW WOW

I need to read up tonight before I form an opinion.

My first question however --if he 'hit' her out of anger because she violated his personal space (I watched the Today show) --  when did her pants fall off??

My lingering question is still how could Stephany not know who he was in the casino?

Oh boy. Here we go.

5 years. I hope it is finally unraveling.

I STAND WITH THE GIRLS and their families
Justice for Natalee and Stephany




BINGO - he is lying again, that is not why he murdered her


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:02:25 AM
In regard to "green" bruises:  a bruise is caused when trauma to an area causes blood to gather at the spot of trauma, initially, the bruise is red for a few minutes; as the blood loses oxygen, the bruise turns blue for a few days; as the blood breaks down, the bruise turns green for a few days and then yellow for a few days before the bruise goes away.

Thanks for the explanation....mine just seem to go from purple to yellow...never seen green...

so those may have been the first blows ? knocking her down of maybe dragging her across something hard...just thinking out loud

I just woke up and am many pages behind...forgive if this has been addressed and I have not seen it yet.....

All of the above (as darleen described) would be from a living person ... but once a person is dead there is no blood flow. The stages of bruising still happen after death?? This seems impossible, but maybe not.

I have some personal experience with this one, Nut. Mom's face was badly bruised, and she was killed instantly (dead on the scene) from a car wreck. When the providers get here, I'll ask how that happens. Blood will stop pumping when the heart stops, but blood can flow from an injury. Generally there isn't much blood unless a person's heart is beating.

CBB, I am so sorry....HUGS to you

the server is constipated again this morning.......all stopped up


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 09:03:49 AM
Okay, I just saw the video with Joran and Stephany walking through the Hotel Tac main area and she does NOT have anything in either hand.  It's clear.

No purse, no keys, nothing "at that point".



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:04:52 AM
Just making a note:

Peru -  Lima   Tue, 08:03 AM  now


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 09:11:37 AM
The judges are not going to care WHY he did it.  He's still guilty.  He has to say something.  He can't just adm it he's a monster.

Stephany's family has all the influence this time.  They have been so kind to Natalee's family.  I am trying to adapt to thinking that if they are satisfied with the outcome of all of this then I am.

I am trying very hard to be as gracious as they are.  If the families of the victims are OK with how this goes, I will try to be.  And I do believe being so beloved in Peru, Peru will see that Mr. Flores is.  I'm just not as understanding by nature nor as thoughtful of others as they have been.

But if they are OK with the outcome, I will try to be as well. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dihannah1 on June 08, 2010, 09:11:54 AM
I haven't read back this morning, but watched the news when I woke up.  All I can say is AMEN!   I was crying this morning during the interview with Dave.  Stephany's father wants to speak with the Holloway family.  Sounds, like he wants to help them further, in finding Nat.

I'm hoping he took a plea deal for the whereabout of Natalee, but we'll see.   He's toast either way, with the Murder charge and still has to faced the extortion charges.   No more murders for him! The world is just a little safer now, as God only knows how many he's truly killed.....  Must be keeping a scrapbook on his laptop, since he got that infuriated about poor Steph looking at his laptop.  She probably saw way more than he ever wanted to be found,, not just his connection to Natalee.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:12:05 AM

The whereabouts of Natalee is his ace in the hole. He will hold on to that information for as long as he can....as long as he thinks it is useful to him. He has gotten a lot of mileage out of keeping the truth away from her family. He has enjoyed having the power to hurt her loved ones,and he has also enjoyed all the attention from the media and the Joran groupies. I believe he will use Natalee to the bitter end....just like Ted Bundy did with the information about his victims. LE never did get all the details they sought before Ted was executed. Ted played with them for a while and tried to use information to buy himself more time. I think Joran may try to do the same thing. I don't think he'll ever tell the full story about either one of these murders. He will be self-serving until he takes his very last breath because he is a psychopath.

(http://bestsmileys.com/signs1/17.gif)
good post pdh3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 09:12:37 AM
If she saw anything on his laptop, imo...it would be something recent. She didn't have a lot of time to dig for stuff.

Scenerio:
The laptop was on w/ screensaver covering screen...Joran goes out for drinks...she touches laptop and screensaver goes poof and TADA ---
On laptop screen is info re: the new charges brought forth by Alabama/FBI, etc. re: extortion, etc., in Natalee's case.  She knows he is a 'wanted man'. Just then, Joran comes back and catches her reading it and flips out...

Not sure I believe the laptop confession, but the above could have happened (or something similar), if true.

Dave Holloway said there was a show on there at 8am due to the 5th anniversary of Natalee being missing.  She had the TV on, could have caught some of that , maybe even grabbing the laptop to look for more info when he came in and she became upset and he freaked.

I still think he wanted to rape her, or else why give her the roofies to begin with?

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: adoronron on June 08, 2010, 09:13:36 AM
Do you think if he really knows where Daddy put Natalee he will tell us now?
Also if he does will the Netherlands arrest him so he goes to serve his  sentence  there first?
Or does Peru  get him first..


Blonde,
I've been wondering the same thing. Stef's father can ask the Peru police to get Joran to come clean on Natalee. But then that may be a catch 22 situation. If he confesses does Aruba get him back for trial first?

And I would not be surprised at all if today Aruba announces the searches there have produced some evidence and they are charging Joran with murder. Or, they have reviewed their files and now want to prosecute him.

Ado


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: twinkiesmom on June 08, 2010, 09:14:10 AM
The TV was on in the room....She could have seen a 5-year Nat story on TV without having to snoop on his laptop.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sdb on June 08, 2010, 09:15:01 AM
Okay, I just saw the video with Joran and Stephany walking through the Hotel Tac main area and she does NOT have anything in either hand.  It's clear.

No purse, no keys, nothing "at that point".


It seems to be a line. http://www.artfire.com/modules.php?name=Shop&op=listing&product_id=1332363
Maybe it was in her pocket?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 09:18:20 AM
The Peruvian police will likely issue a written Press Release at the news conference.  We will be able to get a copy and see what it hsa to say.  They can release evidence because there is no jury pool to contaminate as it is a 3 member panel of judges.

Because Joran says it doesn't mean the judges have to believe him.

Let's wait and see what LE has to say. 

It's amazing that it took LE only 48 hours to extract a confession and ALE didn't in 5 years.  And even if he takes it all back, anything said can still be used against him with the judgese deciding on the merit of  it.

He can wait up to 2 years for an actual trial.  I will be amazed if he survives to stand trial if it takes 2 years.

Will be interesting to watch the Arubans and Dutch try to spin this.  "After all, Joran DOES now say he did this"

I think that is what the judges are going to hear.  But I remain hopeful that something about Natalee was found.

I'm not certain there is a trial in the sense that we think of one. According to the UK pamphlet to its citizens arrested in Peru, guilt is determined by the police and judges in a very short time; it's sentencing that can take up to two years, and the guilty party waits in prison the whole time.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 09:26:19 AM
The Peruvian police will likely issue a written Press Release at the news conference.  We will be able to get a copy and see what it hsa to say.  They can release evidence because there is no jury pool to contaminate as it is a 3 member panel of judges.

Because Joran says it doesn't mean the judges have to believe him.

Let's wait and see what LE has to say. 

It's amazing that it took LE only 48 hours to extract a confession and ALE didn't in 5 years.  And even if he takes it all back, anything said can still be used against him with the judgese deciding on the merit of  it.

He can wait up to 2 years for an actual trial.  I will be amazed if he survives to stand trial if it takes 2 years.

Will be interesting to watch the Arubans and Dutch try to spin this.  "After all, Joran DOES now say he did this"

I think that is what the judges are going to hear.  But I remain hopeful that something about Natalee was found.

I'm not certain there is a trial in the sense that we think of one. According to the UK pamphlet to its citizens arrested in Peru, guilt is determined by the police and judges in a very short time; it's sentencing that can take up to two years, and the guilty party waits in prison the whole time.




No, there won't be a trial with a jury as we are accustomed to but at some point the prosecutor has to present the evidence to the judges in some form or other.  Doubt there will be any media coverage of this and the conclusion is pretty well decided beforehand.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 09:27:10 AM
The TV was on in the room....She could have seen a 5-year Nat story on TV without having to snoop on his laptop.

Good point Twinkles! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:28:07 AM
Good Morning Anna and Monks.....I was so excited I forgot to say Good Morning!

Anna, I was thinking the same thing.....the arubans couldn't break a 17 yo, but the Peruvians got a confession in 2 days after 5 years and how many crimes later??  Personally I don't care HOW they got the confession....they got it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 09:30:28 AM
Thx TxMom!  This makes me go hmmmmmm............

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 09:30:58 AM
But if one saw pictures of Joran on TV about Natalee and his laptop was sitting right there turned on I think most people would want to take a look and see if this is the same Joran.

And maybe she knew he was and was trying to find out something or get him to admit what he did with Natalee.

Onlly two people were present and one of them is dead now and Joran did it.  Murder is murder.  Unless self-defense or something like it, motive does not alter the fact of the guilt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 09:31:20 AM
The Peruvian police will likely issue a written Press Release at the news conference.  We will be able to get a copy and see what it hsa to say.  They can release evidence because there is no jury pool to contaminate as it is a 3 member panel of judges.

Because Joran says it doesn't mean the judges have to believe him.

Let's wait and see what LE has to say. 

It's amazing that it took LE only 48 hours to extract a confession and ALE didn't in 5 years.  And even if he takes it all back, anything said can still be used against him with the judgese deciding on the merit of  it.

He can wait up to 2 years for an actual trial.  I will be amazed if he survives to stand trial if it takes 2 years.

Will be interesting to watch the Arubans and Dutch try to spin this.  "After all, Joran DOES now say he did this"

I think that is what the judges are going to hear.  But I remain hopeful that something about Natalee was found.

I'm not certain there is a trial in the sense that we think of one. According to the UK pamphlet to its citizens arrested in Peru, guilt is determined by the police and judges in a very short time; it's sentencing that can take up to two years, and the guilty party waits in prison the whole time.



I heard that Joran will have to first be charged and go before one judge who will start the legal process.  A normal murder trial takes 24 to 36 months, but a confession only takes about 6 months and goes before a 3-judge panel.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 08, 2010, 09:34:35 AM
Do you think if he really knows where Daddy put Natalee he will tell us now?
Also if he does will the Netherlands arrest him so he goes to serve his  sentence  there first?
Or does Peru  get him first..


Blonde,
I've been wondering the same thing. Stef's father can ask the Peru police to get Joran to come clean on Natalee. But then that may be a catch 22 situation. If he confesses does Aruba get him back for trial first?

And I would not be surprised at all if today Aruba announces the searches there have produced some evidence and they are charging Joran with murder. Or, they have reviewed their files and now want to prosecute him.

Ado

Now that would be really interesting...

Good Morning Monkeys !! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Coffee/SSmonkeyguycoffeespill.gif)

So much has happened since I went to bed... (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Monkey%20Em/cool_m1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 09:36:55 AM
I just don't believe she went on his laptop and he killed her for that.  Surely he would have had a password on that computer. And...wouldn't most of his stuff been in Dutch, English or Piamento (sp?).  She speaks Spanish (don't know if she understands Dutch or English).

Anyway...all of that info was old stuff and WHY would it be a surprise to her as we've already heard that she and her sister were talking about Joran some time back.

There's more to it and I believe he's lying like always.

He's trying to make it seem like he should be charged with manslaughter and not murder.

He's a liar...it'll never change.  NEVER.

I believe he killed her and he admitted that because he can't get out of it and if he confesses, he gets about 5 years less prison time than if he doesn't confess. 

It's all about getting the least amount of sentence at this time.
He's cut his losses (an old gambling pun)


 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 09:37:42 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/07/dutch-suspect-peru-murder-aruba-disappearance-shows-volatile-moods-tv/

June 07, 2010
Van der Sloot Known to Tell Conflicting Tales

Joran van der Sloot can be charming, angry, deceitful, tearful. The young Dutchman has been all that and more, playing out his troubled drama on TV over the five years since he came under suspicion in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

AMSTERDAM — Joran van der Sloot can be charming, angry, deceitful, tearful. The young Dutchman has been all that and more, playing out his troubled drama on TV over the five years since he came under suspicion in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

By his own admission, half of what he says is a lie.

Twice arrested and released for lack of evidence in the Holloway case, Van der Sloot was taken into custody again last week in connection with the slaying in Peru of Stephany Flores, a 21-year-old college student police say he met while playing poker at a Lima casino. Her May 30 killing came five years to the day after Holloway disappeared.

Towering over the Peruvian officers flanking him, the 6-foot-3-inch (191-centimeter-tall) Dutchman appeared sullen and moist-eyed this weekend when he was paraded before journalists in handcuffs and a bulletproof vest after he was caught and extradited from Chile. Chilean police said Van der Sloot told investigators he was innocent in the case.

But late Monday, a Peruvian police spokesman said that Van der Sloot had confessed to killing Flores.

Police Col. Abel Gamarra, head of the Information Directorate of Police, told The Associated Press that the case will be turned over to prosecutors who will present formal charges against Van der Sloot.

Police planned to take Van der Sloot to the hotel on Tuesday to participate in a reconstruction of the events leading to Flores' slaying, Gamarra said.

(snipped)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 09:38:03 AM
WOW WOW WOW

I have to leave the house for the day -- but just caught the news.

WOW WOW WOW

I need to read up tonight before I form an opinion.

My first question however --if he 'hit' her out of anger because she violated his personal space (I watched the Today show) --  when did her pants fall off??

My lingering question is still how could Stephany not know who he was in the casino?

Oh boy. Here we go.

5 years. I hope it is finally unraveling.

I STAND WITH THE GIRLS and their families
Justice for Natalee and Stephany




There's been reports that Stephany's sister had talked to her about Joran....some time before the poker tournament time



No, her cousin who is a male was talking to his friend about Joran.  If you listen to the tape that goes with the words, there was a mistake in the written part.  It was not her that knew.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 09:38:43 AM
Kalpoes had better call the FBI at the first light of dawn!!


Abso friggen lutely!!!!!  If not, I hope they're holding onto their ankles!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sdb on June 08, 2010, 09:40:24 AM
I don't think he was "moist eyed" at all. I think he was just sweating like his guilty daddy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 09:41:33 AM
I haven't read back this morning, but watched the news when I woke up.  All I can say is AMEN!   I was crying this morning during the interview with Dave.  Stephany's father wants to speak with the Holloway family.  Sounds, like he wants to help them further, in finding Nat.

I'm hoping he took a plea deal for the whereabout of Natalee, but we'll see.   He's toast either way, with the Murder charge and still has to faced the extortion charges.   No more murders for him! The world is just a little safer now, as God only knows how many he's truly killed.....  Must be keeping a scrapbook on his laptop, since he got that infuriated about poor Steph looking at his laptop.  She probably saw way more than he ever wanted to be found,, not just his connection to Natalee.

I'm wondering if they're at the point of a plea deal...that might come a little later in connection with timing just before sentencing.

He still hasn't been formally charged.

It's said that he sighed, paused a few long seconds and then said he killed her, he broke her neck - without any emotion.







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 09:41:47 AM
Sources from the Police department in Aruba have confirmed Natalee Holloway is dead. One of the three boys is in the process of taking her parents and authorities to the body. They have confessed that Natalee Holloway has been murdered. Please Pray


Sources have said one of the young men who was arrested in the disappearance of an Natalee admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach, while prosecutors said Saturday the investigation was at a crucial point.


Now according to testimony from two of the Dutch boy's Surinamese friends, they brought 18-year-old Natalee Holloway to a beach but didn't get out of the car. Instead, the Surinamese brothers say Holloway and the Dutch teen, who's an honors student at Aruba International School, "were in the back seat kissing." Then something very bad happened. Things got out of control and Natalee died. They are taking authorities to the body.

Up until now the police had refused Saturday morning to say whether they discovered anything overnight to solve the mystery of what happened to Holloway, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30. 2005

This is a very sad day for us and the family of all. We hope and pray the truth will come out now and justice will prevail.

The prosecution spokeswoman Vivian van der Biezen had earlier said Saturday: "We neither confirm nor deny any information coming from other sources ... [about] alleged statements of suspects in this case."
"The investigation at the moment is the following: Five suspects are being held ... and we are at a very crucial, very important moment in our investigation," she said.

The three young men will we arraigned and set for trial on Monday.


http://www.annointed.net/Article899.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 09:43:24 AM
Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

Killing someone with a gun leaves you out of reach of the victim, so you don't feel anything.
Killing someone with a knife, bat, pillow, or other instrument gets you closer to the victim.  Sometimes the person cannot go through with it because of that.
Killing someone with your bare hands where you are actually touching their person, twisting her, hitting her, breaking her, and kicking her with your own body is beyond words.  Body to body contact where you are hurting someone and you know it is barbaric.



And it's VERY hard to break someone's neck....VERY (that usually happens in highly volatile occurrences, such as an automobile crash).





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 09:43:43 AM
I am sitting here this morning, just numb.  I read about the confession before going to be last night, and got up this morning wondering if it were true, or I had a dream and imagined it.  I am in disbelief.  I never thought he would confess.  I salute the Peruvian police for their effectivness and I hope that the Aruban police are ridiculed beyond mercy for their cover up and bungling in Natalee's case.  It's not over Aruba, in fact I think it is about to get worse.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:47:33 AM
I don't think he was "moist eyed" at all. I think he was just sweating like his guilty daddy.

Sweaty running Son? lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 09:47:39 AM
Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

Killing someone with a gun leaves you out of reach of the victim, so you don't feel anything.
Killing someone with a knife, bat, pillow, or other instrument gets you closer to the victim.  Sometimes the person cannot go through with it because of that.
Killing someone with your bare hands where you are actually touching their person, twisting her, hitting her, breaking her, and kicking her with your own body is beyond words.  Body to body contact where you are hurting someone and you know it is barbaric.



And it's VERY hard to break someone's neck....VERY (that usually happens in highly volatile occurrences, such as an automobile crash).





Puzzler I agree, it is very difficult and likely it was that force that ripped her eye from her socket - for I can't bear to think he ripped it out with his hands.

Again, jeans aren't loose garments on young adults. Those had to be ripped off her during a struggle, or removed post her death. Somehow it just sticks in my mind when and how that occurred is a strong element in the truth, which we may never know from this pathological liar.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 09:51:16 AM
Those who try to blame Beth or the FBI are just rying to protect Aruba from the revulsion that is coming their way for refusing to collect evidence and prosecute Joran for Natalee.

Stephany would be alive today if Aruba/Dutch system had done the right thing.  There is no way around that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Excellent post by Elaine S at RU:

Quote
Elaine S  PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:32 am         

In my opinion, Aruba’s case boiled down to a personality contest. While most never met Beth or Joran, sides were drawn, and somewhere along the way, it wasn’t about justice, it was about who was disliked more- a “poor” 17 year old kid who lied because he was “scared” and yet had the presence of mind to make up a story, a “little” lie, about dropping Natalee at her hotel even before he met her family and friends or a Mother looking for truth.

I remember being glued to the news every night, and becoming infuriated with statements coming out of Aruba… to paraphrase a couple - ”this case will be solved in 48 hours,” “she’s dead, I know, I saw the files.” And, I could only imagine Natalee’s family being on a roller coaster ride like I was. Hope was turned to ashes time and time and time again. Did I like everything Beth did? No! In time did I understand why she did it? Absolutely.

Aruba was Joran’s ballpark; he was the home team. Not so in Peru. The tables were turned, and it appears now that he lost the game. He can’t get angry, not like the way the game’s played, and take his bat and ball and go home!

The excuse is that Beth made him who he is… in my opinion, that’s pure and unadulterated bullshit! The intimation seems to be that because she gave him money, she enabled him to go to Peru and sadly kill a girl – this is beyond bullshit. If you believe that, the same could be said for the infamous night he went to Carlos and Charlie’s… it was Paul’s fault for letting him sneak out of the house, and Anita should never have gone to Holland because if she hadn’t, he wouldn’t have snuck out that night!

For 5 years he’s been enabled by many people along the way to do whatever he wanted to do, and say whatever he wanted to say, whenever he felt like it. And, people made excuses for the “why!” I wonder how many of your children have the luxury of never having had a job, not knowing what it’s like to have responsibilities, but yet – are able to travel from country to country doing whatever it is they feel like doing whenever the mood hits, and if along the way, he or she has to throw somebody under the bus to get more funds, mom, dad, whoever… what the hell, it’s okay, you understand!

I’ve said this for 5 years, and I’ll say it again…. If my daughter disappeared, and the circumstances were as they were with Natalee, you can bet your ass that until I took my last breath, I’d be relentless. And, as someone else said, if I had to sell my soul to the devil, I’d do it gladly!

If Joran had help disappearing Natalee… and, by the way, there’s never been a doubt in my mind that he’s complicit in doing so…. I betcha they’re quivering in their pants just about now.

I never thought the story would end like this…. or maybe it’s only the beginning, and everything will come out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 09:54:16 AM
Those who try to blame Beth or the FBI are just rying to protect Aruba from the revulsion that is coming their way for refusing to collect evidence and prosecute Joran for Natalee.

Stephany would be alive today if Aruba/Dutch system had done the right thing.  There is no way around that.

I would like to know just what people expected the FBI to do?  They have no authority to actually make an arrest on Aruba.  ALE would have had to do that, and THEN turn him over to the FBI.

So why didn't Aruba arrest him after he was caught on video tape committing extortion and wire fraud?

Once again, it all comes back to ARUBA failing to take action against Joran vd Sloot.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 10:01:49 AM
Extortion = $250,000
2 Cups Coffee = $8.00
Image in handcuffs with crapped pants = PRICELESS

HE'S 1/2 WAY THERE - WHERE'S NATALEE?



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranCrapPants-1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: NewfieMonkey on June 08, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
Kalpoes had better call the FBI at the first light of dawn!!


Abso friggen lutely!!!!!  If not, I hope they're holding onto their ankles!
IMO - A whole lotta government/judicial officials better be calling too!  I bet there's a whole lotta sweatin goin on in Aruba right now ... and it's not because of the weather! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 10:08:43 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.

I don't buy that excuse at all. May not have even happened. He's trying to save himself from a life sentence.

Evidently the police didn't either as they are checking his laptop to see if it was even accessed at those times.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 10:18:03 AM
It's such a shame that no one in Aruba had the character to tell thoe young punks who were drugging the tourist girls that not only was that wrong, it was damned wrong and make the police take appropriate actions.

Anypne with half a brain would know where that was all going and how it would end.  Yet it was treated like a big joke.

I am very gratified to see that smirk finally off Joran's face.  But it is unacceptable that two young and promising young woman lost their lives in such senseless ways.

It cannot ever be made right and Joran took life, something he can't give back.  I am glad there is the death penalty where I live for those who do this and take that which they can never repay.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 10:22:51 AM
Good Morning Anna and Monks.....I was so excited I forgot to say Good Morning!

Anna, I was thinking the same thing.....the arubans couldn't break a 17 yo, but the Peruvians got a confession in 2 days after 5 years and how many crimes later??  Personally I don't care HOW they got the confession....they got it.

They did not try to get the truth or a confession in Aruba.....His family was throwing up roadblocks at every corner.

I heard Mark Furman say last night that he was the police investigation room and they had the time line, the evidence line, and everything it would take to convict him but the investigation seemed to just get shut down after his father and other officials became involved. He more or less was saying not to blame the police but it was taken out of their hands time after time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 10:32:26 AM
Stephany at least had a wallet with her as it has been reported no money was left in it.

Robbery.  Plus murder.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 10:36:14 AM
from Twitter

You hear a lot of noise, and siren units are moving to believe Joran TAC to the hotel


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 10:37:33 AM

He killed her because she was on his laptop and saw something about Natalee Holloway, then
10 Punches to the face - shattering her nose and mouth.

5 Tennis racquet blows to the head, neck and all over the body

 This will be hie first confession many more to come
WHERE IS NATALEE


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sassycat on June 08, 2010, 10:38:06 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html

Joran van der Sloot: The Making of a Predator
Tuesday, June 08, 2010 
By Dr. Keith Ablow
Fox News

Joran van der Sloot, 22, is being held in Peru, where authorities say he has confessed to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. Van der Sloot was, of course, the chief suspect in the disappearance and presumed death of Natalee Holloway in Aruba. In that case, there was insufficient evidence to charge him with a crime, and he was released.

Van der Sloot reportedly explained to Peruvian authorities that he killed Flores when she “intruded” into his personal life by looking at his notebook computer and learning he was involved in Holloway's disappearance.

Indeed, van der Sloot seems to be a killer whose violence erupts from him, rather than the kind of serial killer who methodically and secretively stalks victims and carefully disposes of their remains. He was, after all, seen walking into his hotel room with Flores on a hotel video surveillance camera, and the two had been seen together before the alleged crime. He was known to have spent time with Holloway, as well. Those facts don’t support the kind of methodical stalking of victims that organized serial killers are known for.

Organized serial killers plan their crimes for weeks, months or years. They typically are aware of the internal need to kill. They are known to restrain their victims and bring murder weapons with them to the scenes of their crimes, keeping the weapons with them when they disappear.

Disorganized serial killers (and van der Sloot is apparently one of them) happen upon their victims at random and may be “provoked” to kill not just for the perverse joy of it, but by overwhelming feelings of rage or humiliation.

They often leave murder weapons at the scenes of their crimes and do little to dispose of the physical evidence associated with their crimes. What unites organized and disorganized serial killers, I believe, is a perverse connection with death. Ending life reaches them at a deep level that is connected to their own early and unexplored psychological traumas. The “projection” of their own powerlessness and helplessness and, ultimately, lifelessness is the terrible force that overtakes them—again and again. Alcohol and drugs can contribute to dissolving their defenses and rendering them more likely to be homicidal.

Serial killers — whether organized or disorganized — are always made, never born. Having interviewed dozens of killers myself, I can tell you that it turns out that evil never appears “out of the womb.”

Joran van der Sloot traveled the world in the five years since he was held in Aruba for the murder of Natalee Holloway. One or more unexplained murders anywhere he visited may involve him. But something also has to have killed off van der Sloot’s capacity to contain his rage and to empathize with the suffering of others. And the scene of that crime, stored deep inside the mind of van der Sloot himself, is not yet known.

It may well be that every episode of violence in Joran van der Sloot’s life has seemed to him as though it would be the last one—beginning with the emotional or physical violence that turned him into a predator.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 10:39:12 AM
Peruvian young Dutchman killed because he discovered his criminal record
Tuesday, June 8, 2010
10:09 a.m.
Agencia EFE
Lima .- The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confessed that he murdered the young Peruvian blows Stephany Flores, 21, because it found the allegations put to him by the disappearance in 2005 of a young American, Efe reported an police source said.

After being interrogated for three days, Van der Sloot admitted to the agents of the Criminal Investigation Department (DIVINCRI) Flores checked his laptop and found its history, so he attacked with blows to death.

Although he noted that no details can be given on the subject, because it is under investigation, local media said the murder took place on 30 May.

According to the confession, the young Peruvian took advantage of Van der Sloot left the hotel where he stayed to buy some coffee to check your computer.

In this review, Flores found the background who accuse the Dutchman with the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway 18, which until now has not been located in the Caribbean island of Aruba in 2005.

According to local press, the Dutchman, 23, yesterday asked the presence of the police chief heading the investigation and a prosecutor to give his confession.

Van der Sloot said Flores hit in the face repeatedly and then in the back of the head, after which the suffocated.

Local authorities now hope to move to Holland to the hotel to make the reconstruction of the case.

The defendant remains in a cell in the building of the Police investigations (Dirincri) by order of a judge Lima, as it seeks to prevent a suicide attempt or suffer any attack if sent to a common prison.

Van der Sloot has also requested a lawyer of his country to assume its defense and has communicated with his mother.

The Dutchman met last week in a casino Flores Lima and then both went to a hotel, where hours later he was found the body of the young.

Exactly five years before Van der Sloot was the prime suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager.

Following the disclosure of the violent death of Flores and issued an arrest warrant, the Dutchman was arrested in Chile, where authorities expelled him last Friday by the country's border with Peru, where he was received by the Peruvian police.

Also, Joran Van der Sloot has been charged with attempted extortion in Birmingham, Alabama (southern USA), court sources said.

http://www.primerahora.com/holandesasesinoajovenperuanaporquedescubriosusantecedentescriminales-392197.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 10:39:59 AM
It's such a shame that no one in Aruba had the character to tell thoe young punks who were drugging the tourist girls that not only was that wrong, it was damned wrong and make the police take appropriate actions.

Anypne with half a brain would know where that was all going and how it would end.  Yet it was treated like a big joke.

I am very gratified to see that smirk finally off Joran's face.  But it is unacceptable that two young and promising young woman lost their lives in such senseless ways.

It cannot ever be made right and Joran took life, something he can't give back.  I am glad there is the death penalty where I live for those who do this and take that which they can never repay.

Well said Anna and surely the bottom line. Aruba had no respect for the loss of life or for the parents, that began with the cornflakes episode and continued throughout.

Perhaps ethics and character just are no longer fashionable enough for Aruba, as they all smile in graduation and bar photos, it simply seems a total lack of conscience.

I can't imagine how hard being in DC for the new center opening will be for Beth in light of recent events, but then perhaps she will feel both Natalee and Stephany's loss will resonate all the more to spur many to value this center. I hope so.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 10:43:26 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html

Joran van der Sloot: The Making of a Predator
Tuesday, June 08, 2010 
By Dr. Keith Ablow
Fox News

Joran van der Sloot, 22, is being held in Peru, where authorities say he has confessed to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. Van der Sloot was, of course, the chief suspect in the disappearance and presumed death of Natalee Holloway in Aruba. In that case, there was insufficient evidence to charge him with a crime, and he was released.

Van der Sloot reportedly explained to Peruvian authorities that he killed Flores when she “intruded” into his personal life by looking at his notebook computer and learning he was involved in Holloway's disappearance.

Indeed, van der Sloot seems to be a killer whose violence erupts from him, rather than the kind of serial killer who methodically and secretively stalks victims and carefully disposes of their remains. He was, after all, seen walking into his hotel room with Flores on a hotel video surveillance camera, and the two had been seen together before the alleged crime. He was known to have spent time with Holloway, as well. Those facts don’t support the kind of methodical stalking of victims that organized serial killers are known for.

Organized serial killers plan their crimes for weeks, months or years. They typically are aware of the internal need to kill. They are known to restrain their victims and bring murder weapons with them to the scenes of their crimes, keeping the weapons with them when they disappear.

Disorganized serial killers (and van der Sloot is apparently one of them) happen upon their victims at random and may be “provoked” to kill not just for the perverse joy of it, but by overwhelming feelings of rage or humiliation.

They often leave murder weapons at the scenes of their crimes and do little to dispose of the physical evidence associated with their crimes. What unites organized and disorganized serial killers, I believe, is a perverse connection with death. Ending life reaches them at a deep level that is connected to their own early and unexplored psychological traumas. The “projection” of their own powerlessness and helplessness and, ultimately, lifelessness is the terrible force that overtakes them—again and again. Alcohol and drugs can contribute to dissolving their defenses and rendering them more likely to be homicidal.

Serial killers — whether organized or disorganized — are always made, never born. Having interviewed dozens of killers myself, I can tell you that it turns out that evil never appears “out of the womb.”

Joran van der Sloot traveled the world in the five years since he was held in Aruba for the murder of Natalee Holloway. One or more unexplained murders anywhere he visited may involve him. But something also has to have killed off van der Sloot’s capacity to contain his rage and to empathize with the suffering of others. And the scene of that crime, stored deep inside the mind of van der Sloot himself, is not yet known.

It may well be that every episode of violence in Joran van der Sloot’s life has seemed to him as though it would be the last one—beginning with the emotional or physical violence that turned him into a predator.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html

This is a very interesting comment.  What happened in Joran's life that caused all of this anger?  Will we ever know?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 10:43:41 AM
If SF saw has laptop, why murder her? He could have easily denied everything, as he has done so many times in the past.
Doesn't add all the way up for me yet...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 10:43:46 AM
Aruba police search for the body returns of Natalee Holloway after picture of what would be his remains
The picture accompanying this note was taken by tourists who dived the area and would be the remains of the first victim of the Van Sloot

The red circle highlights what would be a human skull found by divers on the beaches of Aruba, it would correspond to the girl Natalee Holloway. (Examiner.com)
Aruba police resumed the search for the body of the young American girl Natalee Holloway in the deep sea of that Caribbean island.

While the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confessed to taking part in the disappearance of Holloway, east-to-Aruba justice still remains a suspect in the crime that shocked the U.S. public opinion. The case has surfaced about his arrest and confession of the murder of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores.

According to Jossy Mansur, editor of the press in Aruba, the preparations for the underwater search for the remains of Natalee Holloway have begun.

Mansur said the channel WIAT, CBS affiliate, that the search will take place "by the bird sanctuary nearby, and in the dam Monserat. Mansur said that the Aruban authorities "believe they must have lost something, some kind of evidence" in connection with Holloway's disappearance. "

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491639/policia-aruba-retoma-busqueda-cadaver-natalee-holloway-foto-lo-que-serian-sus-restos


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 10:45:21 AM
If SF saw has laptop, why murder her? He could have easily denied everything, as he has done so many times in the past.
Doesn't add all the way up for me yet...

IMO, they came to Joran with the damning evidence they had.  His attempt at a confession is to give him the best chance at a lower sentance.  THAT'S ALL. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 10:48:27 AM
Stephany at least had a wallet with her as it has been reported no money was left in it.

Robbery.  Plus murder.

Well, doesn't those 2 together, satisfy a special circumstance to "add" more time to the sentence under Peruvian law?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 10:50:34 AM
Van der Sloot Stephany killed because she discovered his criminal past

'I did not do it. She intruded into my private life, "said the murderer confessed. Stephany Flores discovered the criminal record of the Dutchman, who shot to death

He surrendered to the evidence. Just on Monday afternoon confirmed by the mouths of their own Dutchman Joran van der Sloot that it killed the Peruvian Stephany Flores Ramirez (21) on Sunday May 30 at a hotel in Miraflores.

"I did not do it. The girl intruded into my private life," said the murderer during a police interrogation in the presence of a representative of the Public Ministry, so that the confession has full validity in the research process.

According to sources in the Homicide Division of the National Police, Van der Sloot killed between 8:20 a.m. Stephany and 9:30 a.m., the Italian newspaper Peru 21.

The Dutchman burst of anger when returning from buying coffee for both in a faucet, hotel located next to Tac, found the victim reviewing your laptop (laptop), who discovered that her companion was charged with the murder of Natalee Young Holloway 2005.

Apparently the Dutchman Stephany rebuked him for the murder happened in Aruba, which enraged him and caused the subject of almost two meters of killing blows.

The protocol of the autopsy established the cause of death as brain trauma, cervical and possible asphyxiation strangulation regards the Republic.

"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she wanted to leave. I had fetched my things," the murderer was justified.

With these statements the police he was in those days looking for the motive, he learned that the computer is key to find more evidence against Van der Sloot now seeking to reduce his sentence arguing that killed Stephany product of an argument, to qualify manslaughter rather than qualified.

Meanwhile, the laptop is in the hands of experts in the police computer. Looking for information found on the girl who tragically met his death at the hands of the Dutchman.

Local newspapers report that a confessed murderer would have established a telephone conversation with his mother Anita Van der Sloot, who is dedicated to teaching in the Netherlands.

She offered to come to Peru to support, however, to hours of Monday night she had not entered the country, as monitored by the Directorate of Migration cites El Comercio.


http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-08-van-der-sloot-mato-a-stephany-porque-ella-descubrio-su-pasado-criminal-noticia_270724.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 10:52:06 AM

Saw video of Dave Holloway saying: "knew nothing about the extortion plot" "only Beth"  "I was totally unaware" - "Hopefully, this is the end of the road" (... for Joran)
Also Dave was told that Stephany's father wants to speak with Dave.

Didn't hear but read somewhere that on the same program, "Today",  that Stephany's father said: "we have his computer" "I think there have been many more (murders)"

Anyone else hear the part about "I think there have been many more murders"?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 08, 2010, 10:53:06 AM
from larepublica.pe

Netherlands: 'Yes, I killed Stephany'


He confessed at 5:30 pm. Van der Sloot was attacked because the girl discovered her dark past. Erupted in anger and broke his neck after the victim without permission cogiera his laptop and found out who was involved in the murder of an American. Your Voice Print

Ernesto L. Guerrero

All tests marked him as the alleged murderer of Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez, daughter of businessman and racing driver Ricardo Flores. Yesterday, 48 hours after being expelled from Chile, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot at last confessed his heinous crime.

Police sources revealed that the dangerous stranger crying admitted his guilt in the presence of a prosecutor and a lawyer.

No output

"He did not leave. His plea of innocence had no support, "he said with obvious satisfaction one of the agents who managed to wrest the expected confession.

It emerged that Van der Sloot was broken emotionally when developers made him see videos captured by security cameras CT Hotel Miraflores, which place the victim in the place and time of the crime.

Privacy

"I did not do it. She intruded into my private life, told the boy of 21, confessed compulsive gambler, who arrived in Peru on 14 May to participate in an international championship poker Lima Fiesta casinos and Atlantic City.

The sources consulted by this newspaper stated that the Dutchman said he exploded in anger because Stephany Flores, Sunday morning May 30, when they were in room 309 of Hotel TAC, he discovered his dark past.

The history of Aruba

"He took my laptop without permission (laptop) and found out through pictures and videos that I was involved in a murder in Aruba," he said.

Van der Sloot was referring to the crime of American Natalee Holloway, committed on May 30, 2005 and whose authorship was attributed at the time.

The Dutchman's computerized file detailed reports included in the court granted him freedom "for not having found the corpse of the young American."

Stephany would have agreed to such information, when his occasional companion left the hotel at a nearby supermarket to buy two cups of coffee and cookies. These images were recorded by the cameras of downtown lodging.

Upon his return, in less time than expected later he found her reading her story.

Karate

"He had no right. I went, I was scared, we discussed and tried to escape. I took the neck and hit ...", was the killer.
 Displaying the outstretched right hand with four fingers together and thumbs up, said he applied a strong karate chop in the neck.

An experienced Dirincri official who took part in the interrogation revealed that the murderer be true only at 5.30 pm, having consistently denied responsibility for the crime.

Attorney and lawyer

Sotomayor Ninfa Espinoza, owner of the 40th Provincial Prosecutor Criminal Court, heard confession rocked the crude.

Van der Sloot was assisted throughout by the public defender Rosa Luisa Camargo.

Stephany Flores, as the murderer, fell face down on the floor after receiving a blow to the head.

He had previously struggled with the assailant in a desperate attempt to escape. The scum who did confirm this.

The completed without mercy

The unfortunate young man lay dying, very near the bed of the room, when the criminals finally suffocated.

The protocol of the autopsy established the cause of death as brain trauma, cervical and possible asphyxiation strangulation.

The Dutchman insisted during interrogation that did not plan the killing.

There was no sex

"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she just wanted to leave. She had fetched my things, "he said by way of justification for the ruthless subject.

The same sources reported that the criminal had confused the police kept since he arrived in Lima from Chile.

During the long trip he took land from Tacna to the capital was to open dialogue with Interpol agents responsible for escorting.

Deception

"I have not killed anyone. If you want to search the hotel murderer, "he reportedly told detectives that he engaged in conversation in order to know the truth.

Not only that. It emerged that Van der Sloot told with some confidence to their scouts, during the trip, which had left the Hotel CT the morning of 30 May, leaving Stephany asleep.

He also tried to justify his flight to Chile, ensuring that he or she was bankrupt and had stolen the money the victim had in her purse.

Complicated the investigation

Being key insights obtained informally, Interpol detectives put on top of all agents of the Criminal Investigation Department.

Dirincri chief Gen. Cesar Guardia, then decided to open a new line of research that included all employees who were on duty at the Hotel TAC on the day the murder occurred.

As of Saturday, was not very clear picture regarding the performance of workers in the hotel.

And is that the videos captured by security cameras indicated that the Dutchman had fled the morning of 30 May, however, Stephany's body was only discovered on 2 June.

Why not entered the room rented by the killer 309 for cleaning of rigor for three consecutive days?

The receptionist Adely Abad Marchena and eleven workers were suspected until yesterday.

Did you know ...

Review. The Dutchman's laptop is currently held by computer experts from the police. It expects to recover the information found Stephany and which ended dead.

Key information. It is assumed that the videos and pictures you saw Stephany could help solve the murder of American Natalee Holloway.

Now my daughter rest in peace

The entrepreneur and race car driver Ricardo Flores thanked the National Police in record time to solve the horrendous murder of Stephany. He expressed his gratitude to the Chilean authorities wisely drove the criminal to his country. "Now I know that my daughter rest in peace," he said with conviction.

The criminal and university professor Hidalgo Reategui Socrates said that if it is shown that the Dutchman stole the money that the victim had in her purse would be caught by Article 188 of the Penal Code which punishes up to life imprisonment for murder with robbery.

The Dutchman's confession of 21 years may not be challenged on the judicial level, having been given in the presence of a representative of the Attorney General and have had the advice of a public defender. "They did everything according to law," said General Cesar Guardia satisfied, chief of the Dirincri.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 10:55:44 AM
AZSunny -

Although he seemed to revel in the fact that he got away with murder...

I'll bet many things led to his downfall, contributing to his "nothing to lose" actions:
(1) Death od PVDS - probably felt somewhat responsible.
(2) General dislike for him in his backyard (Aruba)
(3) Lynch mob mentality towards him in Holland.
(4) Watching his every move (Peter dVries chasing him around)
(5) Catching wind (from ALE) about extortion plot.
(6) Overall losing pattern in Poker
(7) Lack of money and resources.
(8) Inability to forge relationships with women due to notoriety.
(9) Isolated lifestyle. Had become a total "lone wolf"

Add in his personality traits:
(1) Arrogant
(2) Narcissist
(3) Sense of entitlement
(4) Untouchable attitude
(5) Liar
(6) Psycopath
(7) Loose cannon
(8) Unstable
(9) No direction

All of the above (plus many morte descriptives) probably culminated into his Peruvian experience.

Just my humble opinion...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 10:56:20 AM
I haven't read back this morning, but watched the news when I woke up.  All I can say is AMEN!   I was crying this morning during the interview with Dave.  Stephany's father wants to speak with the Holloway family.  Sounds, like he wants to help them further, in finding Nat.

I'm hoping he took a plea deal for the whereabout of Natalee, but we'll see.   He's toast either way, with the Murder charge and still has to faced the extortion charges.   No more murders for him! The world is just a little safer now, as God only knows how many he's truly killed.....  Must be keeping a scrapbook on his laptop, since he got that infuriated about poor Steph looking at his laptop.  She probably saw way more than he ever wanted to be found,, not just his connection to Natalee.

I'm wondering if they're at the point of a plea deal...that might come a little later in connection with timing just before sentencing.

He still hasn't been formally charged.

It's said that he sighed, paused a few long seconds and then said he killed her, he broke her neck - without any emotion.






I'm sorry I got in your quote...please forgive...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 10:59:03 AM
Those who try to blame Beth or the FBI are just rying to protect Aruba from the revulsion that is coming their way for refusing to collect evidence and prosecute Joran for Natalee.

Stephany would be alive today if Aruba/Dutch system had done the right thing.  There is no way around that.

Hear! Hear!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 11:02:22 AM
Posted on the front page of SM by someone that appears to be in the NL.  Take it with a grain of salt please:

Quote
Brendon Dunn
Submitted on 2010/06/08 at 9:58am

Breaking news: it is said the remains of Nathalie have been found.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 11:03:00 AM
Aruba police search for the body returns of Natalee Holloway after picture of what would be his remains
The picture accompanying this note was taken by tourists who dived the area and would be the remains of the first victim of the Van Sloot

The red circle highlights what would be a human skull found by divers on the beaches of Aruba, it would correspond to the girl Natalee Holloway. (Examiner.com)
Aruba police resumed the search for the body of the young American girl Natalee Holloway in the deep sea of that Caribbean island.

While the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confessed to taking part in the disappearance of Holloway, east-to-Aruba justice still remains a suspect in the crime that shocked the U.S. public opinion. The case has surfaced about his arrest and confession of the murder of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores.

According to Jossy Mansur, editor of the press in Aruba, the preparations for the underwater search for the remains of Natalee Holloway have begun.

Mansur said the channel WIAT, CBS affiliate, that the search will take place "by the bird sanctuary nearby, and in the dam Monserat. Mansur said that the Aruban authorities "believe they must have lost something, some kind of evidence" in connection with Holloway's disappearance. "

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491639/policia-aruba-retoma-busqueda-cadaver-natalee-holloway-foto-lo-que-serian-sus-restos

Perhaps we need a spanish speaking monkey to put together an email/press release to the Peruvian/South American press with the pictures of the crab trap and a brief explanation.

I believe opportunity is knocking.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 11:03:16 AM
Joran has confessed to murdering Stephany.

Just like Joran confessed to murdering Natalee.  After only a short time Aruba LE was questioning Beth about Natalee and seizures.  She never knew why until years later Joran tells about Natalee "shaking".  Then Beth realized Joran had told Aruba LE, they knew all along.  They hid it all and/or or destroyed it all and/or lied about it all.

That's what Joran's used to.  Well, HELLO!  This is Peru and this freak is about to have the advantage of a new experience.  (Wow...I sure miss the laughing monkey that sticks out his tongue)!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 11:03:23 AM
Game, Set, Match ... CHECKMATE BASTARD!!!



Wonderful!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 11:09:47 AM
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1000%2FNieuws%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F488992%2F2010%2F06%2F08%2FResten-Natalee-Holloway-gevonden-op-Aruba.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

AD.NL reporting Natalee's body found


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 11:11:03 AM
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1000%2FNieuws%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F488992%2F2010%2F06%2F08%2FResten-Natalee-Holloway-gevonden-op-Aruba.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

AD.NL reporting Natalee's body found

They are saying that Aruban authorities are telling them that Natalee's body has been found.  Still I take this with a grain of salt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 11:13:06 AM
If so, they knew where she was all along.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 11:13:15 AM
Oh, I get it....
"I did not want to do it," La Republica quoted him (urine) as saying. "The girl intruded into my private life."
Of course he had to kill her after that....Who wouldn't?

Fast forward to urine in prison.....
Guard...What happened?
Fine upstanding Peruvian citizen (in jail for the unthinkable....but not really guilty..wink, nod)
He (urine) bent over to pick up the soap.....I had too.....hehehe)

Blaming it on the victim, Stepany, will not set well with her father.  He blamed everyting on Natalee, too.


Well, all I can say is 50 bucks is chump change to a guy like him. Joran will rue the day he ever messed with that Family. He won't last 24 hours in that hell hole of a prison.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wingnut on June 08, 2010, 11:13:57 AM
From what I've read, Joran may get a somewhat lighter sentence for confessing, but IMO, it doesn't matter. I firmly believe if he goes in to start serving a sentence inside a Peruvian prison, he'll never come out alive.

As far as his chances of NOT serving time in a Peruvian prison but being able to serve the time in Holland................ I haven't seen anything that would force Peru to agree to that. I really think that Peru wants to keep him and I'm betting/hoping that they aren't going to let that trophy that they paraded around, go so easily.

IMO Joran's @ss is staying in Peru.....much to the delight of hundreds other Peruvian prisoners!

Momma Sloot better FedEx that butt plug!

With all that Stephany's father has done for the Peruvian police and how highly they think of him....and all the other connections the father is supposed to have, too....it will only take one word from the father and it's all over for Joran.



Mr. Flores has already stated publicly that he does NOT want Joran to get the death penalty.  Does anyone think for one moment that he is stating this from a humanitarian standpoint?  He KNOWS that in this case death would be the easy way out.  He KNOWS what the Peruvian max security prisons are like.  He wants him to suffer for a long time.  Does anyone think he is going to let Joran go sit in a cushy Dutch jail?  NO WAY!  And he has a multitude of Peruvian officials to ensure that it is done as he wishes.  Slowly, painfully, with everyday reminders of what he has done.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 11:13:59 AM
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1000%2FNieuws%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F488992%2F2010%2F06%2F08%2FResten-Natalee-Holloway-gevonden-op-Aruba.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

AD.NL reporting Natalee's body found

They are saying that Aruban authorities are telling them that Natalee's body has been found.  Still I take this with a grain of salt.

I've got the salt grains, but am holding my breath!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on June 08, 2010, 11:14:17 AM
If so, they knew where she was all along.
I totally agree with you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 08, 2010, 11:14:45 AM
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1000%2FNieuws%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F488992%2F2010%2F06%2F08%2FResten-Natalee-Holloway-gevonden-op-Aruba.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

AD.NL reporting Natalee's body found

They are saying that Aruban authorities are telling them that Natalee's body has been found.  Still I take this with a grain of salt.

They say that the peruvian site larepublica mentions that the aruban authorities have found the remains. The salt is probably a good idea


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 11:15:06 AM
This will be a remarkable resource, God bless Beth.

http://decaturdaily.com/detail/61876.html

 6/8/10
Natalee Holloway Center set to open

BIRMINGHAM (AP) — The Natalee Holloway Resource Center opens Tuesday in Washington to provide families of missing persons help with managing their crisis and to give students advice on traveling safely.

The nonprofit center is located at the National Museum of Crime and Punishment, and it’s named for the Mountain Brook teenager who disappeared five years ago on a class trip to Aruba.

Museum chief operating officer Janine Vaccarello said museum officials are developing the center with Natalee Holloway’s mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. They are working from her experiences with her daughter’s disappearance.

“Beth made a list of what she went through when Natalee was first reported missing and most of the things had to do with her not having resources,” she told The Birmingham News.

A 24-hour call center, donated by an Orlando, Fla., law firm and staffed by trained workers, will help a family navigate the process of gathering information about the missing person and providing it to the media to get the word out rapidly and accurately, she said.

A second mission of the center is helping teachers, parents and students travel safely.

Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 11:15:23 AM
AZSunny -

Although he seemed to revel in the fact that he got away with murder...

I'll bet many things led to his downfall, contributing to his "nothing to lose" actions:
(1) Death od PVDS - probably felt somewhat responsible.
(2) General dislike for him in his backyard (Aruba)
(3) Lynch mob mentality towards him in Holland.
(4) Watching his every move (Peter dVries chasing him around)
(5) Catching wind (from ALE) about extortion plot.
(6) Overall losing pattern in Poker
(7) Lack of money and resources.
(8) Inability to forge relationships with women due to notoriety.
(9) Isolated lifestyle. Had become a total "lone wolf"

Add in his personality traits:
(1) Arrogant
(2) Narcissist
(3) Sense of entitlement
(4) Untouchable attitude
(5) Liar
(6) Psycopath
(7) Loose cannon
(8) Unstable
(9) No direction

All of the above (plus many morte descriptives) probably culminated into his Peruvian experience.

Just my humble opinion...
I think you are right regarding his explosive murder of Stephany, but what happened in his early life that would have caused him to kill his dog,  throw someone into a plate glass window, kill Natalee....where did that frustration and anger come from?  Clearly poor parenting skills, but that doesn't always create a killer.  Something happened to him that tramatically changed him,  I believe. Perhaps he witnessed the death of others at his father's hands, or his father's friends hands.  Rape/assault/murder??? There came a great disrespect for human life, but from where?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 11:15:35 AM
He admitted to the crime stating she was using his computer about being involved in NH's death.

Who here buys that as the reason why he killed her?

I mean almost every one would recognize him and would figure that he was the suspect in Natalee's disappearance and death.

What really must have been on his laptop? There must have been damning stuff like trafficking and much more than merely references to NH.
I read where there were 2 complaints of noise. Sorry, but cannot find the source at this time. I think now that the hotel staff is allowed to talk, we will be hearing more details.
He's lying even while he's confessing....what's new.

He went to get coffee after she was dead.  He knew the cameras were there and set the "coffee" thing up for just in case he was caught.  IMO, she was probably dead within the first 15 -30 minutes of entering Joran's room.


Maybe.  But, what's still puzzling me (sorry for the pun) is why no one heard anything in the adjacent rooms?  Here's a woman being beaten to death in the room next to you, but an act that violent doesn't produce any sound?  If I have the TV up too loud in the livingroom my wife yells at me to turn it down.  Again, why no noise (or complainst about it)?  Strange...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 11:18:24 AM
"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she wanted to leave. I had fetched my things," the murderer was justified.
======================================================================================================
Surely this is a bad translation...................we were having sex (but there was no evidence of that - still trying to act like the sexual predator - probably is impotent)

"The murderer was justified?"  - Everything is justified in the mind of a psychopath


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 11:23:40 AM
http://www.tv.grupobloglatino.com/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-haber.html

New video on this clip - the girl on the floor is a re-enactment.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 11:23:55 AM
If so, they knew where she was all along.
I totally agree with you.

Indeed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 11:26:20 AM
CNN is reporting that they are receiving news that Joran is not happy with what took place last night , the lawyer present was not the one of his choice, he felt coerced etc...yada yada yada.

I have not seen any of this in the Peru press yet. 

Crime scene visit with Joran has been delayed.  hmmmmmmmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 11:26:30 AM
Could be another translation blurp? RE: report on Nat's body...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 11:26:52 AM
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1000%2FNieuws%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F488992%2F2010%2F06%2F08%2FResten-Natalee-Holloway-gevonden-op-Aruba.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

AD.NL reporting Natalee's body found

If so they may have found the information on the computer. That could be why he killed her if she found that and threatened to tell.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 08, 2010, 11:28:17 AM
Do you think if he really knows where Daddy put Natalee he will tell us now?
Also if he does will the Netherlands arrest him so he goes to serve his  sentence  there first?
Or does Peru  get him first..


Blonde,
I've been wondering the same thing. Stef's father can ask the Peru police to get Joran to come clean on Natalee. But then that may be a catch 22 situation. If he confesses does Aruba get him back for trial first?

And I would not be surprised at all if today Aruba announces the searches there have produced some evidence and they are charging Joran with murder. Or, they have reviewed their files and now want to prosecute him.

Ado

(http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Monkey%20Em/monkeybump-1.gif)  But I have my salt shaker handy...wouldn't this be amazing!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 11:28:19 AM

Exactly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 11:28:29 AM
NRCG/PV/Nut,

JRenfro probably still thinks NH is hiding in a crack house, aboard a MedJet, or in SAmerica.
Will she ever go back on her most utterly and outlandish bullshit theories that have been so elaborately fabricated?

Maybe she will say Joran was in Peru and Chile looking for her all along..
Joran: "Oh, Natalee, where are you? Please come out of hiding..."

BUCKSHOT



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 11:28:36 AM
Could be another translation blurp?

That's what I think.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 11:28:41 AM
De Telegraaf

Tue June 8, 2010, 08:25
"Van der Sloot has been in remission from '


LIMA - With the admission that he has slain Stephany Flores, trying Joran van der Sloot to get his sentence down. That the Peruvian criminal law specialist Mario Amoretti Monday (local time) against Peruvian media said when the police report leaked to the confession.

According to the Peruvian newspaper La República known Van der Sloot Monday at 17.30 Peruvian time, after having systematically denied. He was angry because Stephany Flores in his private life interfered by his laptop on his dark past to have read.

"His strategy is to charge into manslaughter instead of murder. This would he a sentence between six and twenty years get. Of murder would be up to 35 years. And the penalty can be further reduced by the admission. It is more favorable for him unpacked, "said the radio station RPP by Amoretti.

According to the police must find out whether Amoretti Stephany actually booted the laptop at the time that in the supermarket opposite the hotel coffee went out. "And the police must find out what happened to the money they won in the casino and that he disappeared and why the car went off," said Amoretti against RPP.

Van der Sloot would after his departure from the hotel by car from Flores have taken and have parked in another area.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6884231/___Joran_uit_op_strafvermindering___.html?p=2,1
So, Joran thinks since he confessed he will automatically be put on top of the prosecution list? I am sure the many prisoners waiting to go to trial in the hell hole prisons are just going to love this news.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wreck on June 08, 2010, 11:30:04 AM
Could not agree more!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 11:31:16 AM

Wouldn't that be awful coincidental and convenient of Aruba ???
"Oh, here she is. See Beth..We have never stopped looking for you guys"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 11:31:24 AM
Since Friday the staff of a cell conditioning INPE Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the confessed murderer of the young Stephany Flores, ...

Tuesday June 8, 2010 - 10:20 am
Since Friday the staff of a cell conditioning INPE Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the confessed murderer of the young Stephany Flores, in the Miguel Castro Castro Penitentiary, in the district of San Juan de Lurigancho.

Sources confirmed to INPE elcomercio.pe the Dutchman will be moved to this building after the police had completed the research process.

His cell is part of the so-called flag of prevention in the past housed prisoners for terrorism. In that place are also held the Colombian hit man Ospina Hugo Trujillo, the alleged perpetrator Fefer businesswoman Miriam, and the mayor of Coronel Portillo, Luis Valdez, charged with laundering drug proceeds, and recently acquitted of the murder of journalist Alberto Rivera .

This environment is set back from the pavilions that house prisoners comune

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491674/joran-van-der-sloot-recluido-penal-miguel-castro-castro


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 11:31:33 AM
http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/pareha-a-kere-di-a-haya-restonan-di-natalee-holloway/

Pareha A Kere Di A Haya Restonan Di Natalee Holloway

Publication: Diamars, 8 Juni 2010. Categoria: General

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Patruya di Noord pa medio di central di polis a worde dirigi na un high rise hotel. Tabata diadomingo mainta cu un turista a notifica polis cu e tin algo pa conta nan.

Polis a bay na e hotel y nan a topa e homber cu a identifica su mes y su inicialnan ta B.T. naci na Canada di 51 aña. E tabata hunto cu su señora di inicialnan L.T. naci na Inglatera di 47 aña.

E pareha a conta di a keiro den jeep rond di Aruba y na haltura di e tanki awa na Alto Vista nan a wak resto di weso y nan ta sospecha cu ta resto di Natalee Holloway.

Patruya a acompaña e pareha te na e sitio y nan a topa sero di sushi, algun weso chikito, un panty preto grandi, coi tene cabey, boter, bleki cadaver di cacho y tur sorto di porqueria.

Ora cu e bishitantenan a keda convenci cu aki no ta trata di curpa humano nan a worde hiba back pa hotel. Awor nan lo regresa Canada cu trankilidad.


Through translator:

pareha owing to believe by owing to attain restonan by natalee holloway come across

oranjestad (aan): patrol by north by central by police owing to worde dirigi at one high rise hotel. was diadomingo morning cu one tourist owing to notifica police cu the have algo before count ; they. police owing to bay at the hotel y they owing to encounter he cu owing to identifica her self y her inicialnan is b.t. naci at canada by 51 year. the was together cu her lady by inicialnan l.t. naci at inglatera by 47 year. the pareha owing to count ; by owing to keiro in jeep rond by aruba y at height by the tanki water at alto vista they owing to look at remainder by bone y they're sospecha cu is remainder by natalee holloway. patrol owing to acompaña the pareha till at the sitio y they owing to encounter hill by dirt, some bone diminutive, one panty black big, coi hang on to cabey, boter, can cadaver by cacho y all sort by porqueria. hour cu the bishitantenan owing to remain convenci cu here do not deal by curpa human they owing to worde bring back before hotel. at present they will return canada cu trankilidad.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: terryd270 on June 08, 2010, 11:32:28 AM
Well it looks like the deck of cards are falling down and lots of people will hide like cockroaches..  I wish we could send Casey over with Joran, I'm sure they could make her talk.. I wouldn't be surprised that they have found (more likely decided its time to return the body) after asking for storage charges for Natalee..  I wonder if they are selling many timeshares now?  Very evil person and the scary part it seems that island is full of them..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 11:33:42 AM
CNN is reporting that they are receiving news that Joran is not happy with what took place last night , the lawyer present was not the one of his choice, he felt coerced etc...yada yada yada.

I have not seen any of this in the Peru press yet. 

Crime scene visit with Joran has been delayed.  hmmmmmmmmmm

CNN just had another lawyer on that said whether Joran was happy or not about the confession, a lawyer for him was there practicing legally in Peru and it may stand regardless of how he feels about it now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: kimi1230 on June 08, 2010, 11:33:48 AM
CNN.....looks like they will cover the opening of the Nat Holloway center. Didn't catch it all...but showed a clip of a picture of Natalee by a microphone, then I heard Beth mentioned.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 11:36:26 AM
Regarding Joran's confession to murdering Stephany....the front page of DIARO:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/DiaroJoranConfess.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 11:36:52 AM
“However, he still has to prove that Flores actually used his computer during that time,” pointed out Amoretti to El Comercio.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12396

hee hee hee - wouldn't it be "perfect" if there are NO Stephany fingerprints on his computer?


Actually, I think she might have said something like, so who is this Natalee Holloway I have been reading about?
Dave said that the news of the anniversary er death was all over the news by 8 am that day, so Stephany probably saw something concerning.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 11:40:47 AM
Lima (Peru.com) .- "I did not do it. She intruded into my private life, "said the Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot, who confessed to police that beaten to death Stephany Flores, daughter of Ricardo Flores car racer.
 
Van der Slotot arrived in Peru on 14 May to participate in an international championship poker Lima Fiesta casinos and Atlantic City.
 
The Dutchman said he exploded in anger because Stephany Flores, Sunday morning May 30, when they were in room 309 of the TAC Hotel in Miraflores, discovered his dark past.
 
"He took my laptop without permission (laptop) and found out through pictures and videos that I was involved in a murder in Aruba," he said according to the newspaper 'The Republic'.
 
Van der Sloot was referring to the crime of American Natalee Holloway, committed on May 30, 2005 and whose authorship was attributed at the time.
 
The computerized file detailed reports included Dutchman court which granted freedom "have not found the body of the young American."
 
Stephany would have agreed to such information, when his occasional companion left the hotel at a nearby supermarket to buy two cups of coffee and cookies.
 
The shock killed
 
"He had no right. I went, I was scared, we discussed and tried to escape. I took the neck and hit ...", was the killer.
 
 Displaying the outstretched right hand with four fingers together and thumbs up, said he applied a strong karate chop in the neck.
 
Stephany Flores, as the murderer, fell face down on the floor after receiving a blow to the head. He had previously struggled with the assailant in a desperate attempt to escape. The scum who did confirm this.
 
The unfortunate young man lay dying, very near the bed of the room, when the criminals finally suffocated.
 
The protocol of the autopsy established the cause of death as brain trauma, cervical and possible asphyxiation strangulation. The Dutchman insisted during interrogation that did not plan the killing.
 
There was no sex
 
"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she just wanted to leave. She had fetched my things, "he said.
Video: Courtesy of 'American News'

http://www.peru.com/noticias/lima20100608/101034/Conozca-la-confesion-del-holandes-Joran-van-der-Sloot-sobre-el-crimen-de-Stephany-Flores-


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 11:41:19 AM
BUCKSHOT....lmaoooo

No comments on his Peru confession......being awfully quiet all of a sudden, eh??

http://www.24ora.com/internacional-mainmenu-6/18451-joran-vd-sloot-a-confesa-di-a-mata-stephany-flores.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 11:42:03 AM
Good morning everyone (it's morning where I am anyway).  Could the news regarding Natalee's remains be true?  What's the latest?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 11:43:02 AM
ALERT: Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who killed Peruvian Stephany Flores, will be held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima, Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 11:43:07 AM
If I remember correctly, Stephany, had been told about Joran's past by her sister before the poker game.

If so, why did she go to his room, knowing that he might be a potential killer?

Did he say he'd have the money he owed her from the poker game in a room safe?
Why didn't she wait in the hotel lobby to get the money?

Was she drugged?

iMO I don't believe his confession.

Thank you Monkey Family for your Good Works.  Love, IBE


I though she didn't have a sister, just brothers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 11:44:13 AM
Joran van der Sloot will be held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison
Share the same flag as Trujillo Ospina Colombian hit man and the mayor of Coronel Portillo, Luis Valdez

Since Friday the staff of a cell conditioning INPE Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the confessed murderer of the young Stephany Flores, in the Miguel Castro Castro Penitentiary, in the district of San Juan de Lurigancho.

Sources confirmed to INPE elcomercio.pe the Dutchman will be moved to this building after the police had completed the research process.

His cell is part of the so-called flag of prevention in the past housed prisoners for terrorism. In that place are also held the Colombian hit man Ospina Hugo Trujillo, the alleged perpetrator Fefer businesswoman Miriam, and the mayor of Coronel Portillo, Luis Valdez, charged with laundering drug proceeds, and recently acquitted of the murder of journalist Alberto Rivera .

This environment is set back from the pavilions that house common criminals

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491674/joran-van-der-sloot-recluido-penal-miguel-castro-castro


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 11:44:15 AM
If so, they knew where she was all along.
I totally agree with you.

ME TOO! I am having a terrible time trying to stay on SM....DAMN!~!  Kudos to anyone able to post and thank you for doing so.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 11:44:24 AM
ALERT: Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who killed Peruvian Stephany Flores, will be held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima, Peru.

They will love him to death there:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/MiguelCastroCastro.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/castro_castro_prison.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/MiguelCastroPrisonJoran.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 11:45:10 AM
Good morning everyone (it's morning where I am anyway).  Could the news regarding Natalee's remains be true?  What's the latest?

We don't know yet.  There is something in Diario but pap is too hard to translate.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 08, 2010, 11:45:58 AM
CNN is reporting that they are receiving news that Joran is not happy with what took place last night , the lawyer present was not the one of his choice, he felt coerced etc...yada yada yada.

I have not seen any of this in the Peru press yet. 

Crime scene visit with Joran has been delayed.  hmmmmmmmmmm

CNN just had another lawyer on that said whether Joran was happy or not about the confession, a lawyer for him was there practicing legally in Peru and it may stand regardless of how he feels about it now.

(sarcasm alert)  What?  You mean no do overs? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 11:46:13 AM
If I remember correctly, Stephany, had been told about Joran's past by her sister before the poker game.

If so, why did she go to his room, knowing that he might be a potential killer?

Did he say he'd have the money he owed her from the poker game in a room safe?
Why didn't she wait in the hotel lobby to get the money?

Was she drugged?

iMO I don't believe his confession.

Thank you Monkey Family for your Good Works.  Love, IBE


I though she didn't have a sister, just brothers.

Hi IBE

What we heard is that her cousin was talking to a friend about Joran and the Natalee murder.  It has not been discussed that she knew anything about him or Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 11:58:15 AM
Why did he feel the need to pull her pants off?

Maybe that is the laptop he is talking about.  He did not need to drug her to sit up and talk.

He is a ticking timebomb.  I hope he tells us where Natalee is before he goes off.
Oh, God, I just had this terrible thought. Remember he said he was masturbating at the the time Stephany was killed? You don't think he did that after he killed her, do you?
Of course he needed roofies, that was the only way he could get a gal to have sex with him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 11:58:51 AM
Chronicle Live: They would have found the remains of the first victim of Joran van der Sloot (+ video)

They would have found the remains of the first victim of Joran van der Sloot (+ video)

ARUBA-The remains of American Natalee Holloway, who was murdered in 2005 by Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who also killed the Peruvian Stephany Flores, have been found in the last hours, information held in reserve by the authorities of this island of the Lesser Antilles.

Not specified whether this finding was achieved through the reports that had the murderer in his lap top and Steohany discovered why it would have been killed.


The confessed murderer of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores, daughter of the businessman and racer Ricardo Flores, apparently has a history very similar to that of the missing American Natalee Holloway.

The two youths had an unfortunate encounter with the Netherlands citizen Joran van der Sloot in a casino.

On May 30, 2005, Holloway disappeared in Aruba but until now has found its whereabouts, in a case that shocked the American public and was taken to the movies.

"The Natalee Holloway Story" (2009) is the title of the film. The story revolves around during the graduation trip to Aruba, a crazy night with friends becomes a tragic story.

The native of Alabama teen disappears without a trace, your holiday become a nightmare for his family.

She was last seen by her classmates outside "Carlos' n Charlie" s ", a Caribbean chain restaurant and nightclub in Oranjestad, in a car with Joran Van Der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe . When questioned, the three men said that they left their hotel and denied knowing the whereabouts of Holloway.

In one video, Joran Van Der Sloot revealed that, under the influence of marijuana, got rid of the body of Holloway. Also, note that the night of May 29, 2005, Natalee met him at a casino in Aruba.

According to Van Der Sloot, the boy suddenly began to shake and then no longer react. He tried all means to return itself, but was unsuccessful.


http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/117530/31/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Deenie on June 08, 2010, 11:59:47 AM
Justice for Stephany and Natalie

I can't go back too far in the pages, I continue to be bounced out of SM.
Just wondering did anyone catch last night on NG the list(notes) on the side bar when she had the body diagram up?  The body diagram marking Stephany's injuries.

It said that she was found wearing a black shirt, beige shirt and was wearing red panties (( with a sanitary napkin with blood residue)) due to the questions if she had consensual sex with Joran or if he had raped her. I think that the "pad" could be tested. ( my opinion I don't believe any of this was sexually motivated, too much money to be had for him from her)

Wondering with if she had left any other used sanitary napkins in the trash can in the bathroom - it would be able to establish a time line of her being alive in the room. He certainly would not be the one to place her pads in the trash can.
Just thoughts. If I was already posted - sorry I can't go back into the pages, not even in lurk mode. I get bounced out of sm.

 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 12:00:28 PM
FYI - I KNOW THE SITE IS DOWN A LOT.  IT'S AS FRUSTRATING TO ME AS IT IS TO EVERYONE ELSE.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:01:04 PM
IBE - almost missed you.  I am really, really curious as to why she went to his room in the first place - she did not appear to want to be there, IMO.

Nite all!
Me too.  Although I'ma  little confused about this "going to his room to pay money he lost to her" theory.  In any Poker Tournament, there is a buy-in to play.  The winnings are already paid by each player who enters the tourney...so any money he would have lost to her would have already been collected by the Casino at the point of registration.  He would have no reason to retrievemoney he lost to her in his room...

I think she was drugged, and was tricked into going into his room so he could sexually assualt her. That doesn't even make sense in my theory though.  She wa found in her underwear and t-shirt, correct?  Maybe they did have sex, and he went out for coffee and breakfast (bread) for ther both of the.  And, my theory is the same as what's being reported.  H returned to find her using his laptop, and he became enraged at his loss of control...


Question:  it's reported that neither Joran nor Stephany were signed up for the poker tournament.  So, if they were just playing poker and he lost a lot of money to her, should he have had the money upfront or would that create a possiblity for going to his room for the money...maybe under the guise of wiring money from his account to her account?  TIA

She was an outted lesbian...why would she stay in his room if he left her to go get coffee?


I am thinking because it was @ 5am when they got done playing poker, she needed a place to crash and Joran charmed his way in with his nice guy routine.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 12:04:47 PM
It appears from this that the FBI has requested Beth not speak on the recent developments ........

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/natalee_holloways_mother_beth_3.html

Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway, speaks at morning news conference on center named for daughter
By Mary Orndorff -- The Birmingham News
June 08, 2010, 10:36AM

WASHINGTON -- Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway, spoke briefly at a news conference in downtown Washington this morning to discuss the opening of the Natalee Holloway Resource Center to help the families of missing persons.

Beth Holloway spoke for less than two minutes and did not take questions.

"I feel confident it will serve as a point of light for all missing persons." Beth Holloway said this morning of the center.

The opening of the center today comes after Joran van der Sloot's recent arrest in the murder of Stephany Flores in Peru. The Dutch man has since confessed, according to the Associated Press. Van der Sloot has been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance.

"Let's keep the Flores family in our hearts and prayers," Beth Holloway said in her only comments on the Peru case.

Holloway was planning to answer questions about the center until news of Van der Sloot's confession broke this morning, said Janine Vaccarello, co-founder of the center.

There was an "FBI directive" that Holloway not discuss her daughter's or any van der Sloot cases, according to Vaccarello.Van der Sloot has been charged by federal prosecutors in Alabama with trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for information about what happened.



Natalee Holloway was with her Mountain Brook High School classmates on a trip to Aruba when she disappeared, five years ago to the day of the death of Flores, 21, in van der Sloot's hotel room in Peru.

The resource center, co-founded by Beth Holloway, will officially open tonight with a public fundraiser at the National Museum of Crime and Punishment.
 
NOTE: HLN just showed the video of Beth asking everyone to keep the Flores family in their hearts and prayers and it was apparent she was struggling a big to keep her composure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:06:33 PM
Stephany Father Flores: Now my daughter rest in peace after confession of Joran van der Sloot

Lima (Peru.com) .- The entrepreneur and race car driver Ricardo Flores thanked the National Police to solve the murder of his daughter Stephany Flores, who died in the hands of the citizen Joran van der Sloot Netherlands.
 
"Now I know that my daughter rest in peace," Flores said the newspaper 'The Republic' after learning that the subject confessed that he killed the young Peruvian prying into his private life.
 
As recalled, Van der Sloot says that both entered the TAC Hotel in Miraflores, and then he went to buy coffee and biscuits. On his return, he discovered that she sniffed in her past.
 
On the other hand, expressed his gratitude to the Chilean authorities wisely drove the criminal to his country.

http://www.peru.com/noticias/lima20100608/101049/Padre-de-Stephany-Flores-Ahora-mi-hija-descansara-en-paz-tras-confesion-de-Joran-van-der-Sloot-


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:07:10 PM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?


I read in one of the articles that he was expecting a female visitor on Wednesday.
It has to be his Mommy since I doubt any other female would want to see that POS.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 12:07:30 PM


I agree with the grain of salt re: the location of Natalee's remains...

But Pray Monkeys!  Pray!

Could it actually be they are finally giving her back?!



Boycott Aruba!  Vacation in Peru!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
I hope Nat's remains have been found....but I find it odd that the US media isn't on it if true.....RED CALL TIM!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 12:09:51 PM
Good morning everyone (it's morning where I am anyway).  Could the news regarding Natalee's remains be true?  What's the latest?

We don't know yet.  There is something in Diario but pap is too hard to translate.

http://www.papiamentu.net/translation.php


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:09:56 PM
LIMA (Reuters) - The Netherlands citizen Joran van der Sloot, involved in the disappearance of an American in Aruba five years ago, confessed to killing a young Peruvian, said Tuesday a police source.

The Dutchman, 23, was arrested by Peruvian police on Friday after their counterparts in Chile and be expelled to the border with Peru, in a case that has drawn the attention of local and international press.

"Yes, he confessed yesterday (Monday) afternoon in the crime. He (Van der Sloot) said it was an impulsive attitude and did not mean to kill her, "said a police source told Reuters without giving further details about the case.

A local television news said, quoting police sources, the Dutchman killed the young Peruvian woman after she reviewed a laptop that would contain information on the American Natalee Holloway, whose disappearance had a major impact in the U.S..

Many journalists waiting outside the hotel on Tuesday where he was found dead on Wednesday the young Stephany Flores, 21, waiting for the police to arrive to the scene to perform a reconstruction of events.

Police guard secrecy in its investigation of how the young Peruvian was killed, although local media claims that died of multiple blows to the head and body.

The victim's body was found on the side of the bed of a hotel room that was the name of Van der Sloot, a tall man with short hair.

http://noticias.terra.com/articulos/act2365315/holandes_confiesa_haber_matado_a_joven_peruana_policia/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 12:10:09 PM


I agree with the grain of salt re: the location of Natalee's remains...

But Pray Monkeys!  Pray!

Could it actually be they are finally giving her back?!



Boycott Aruba!  Vacation in Peru!!

YES on the prayer and YES on the scroll!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 12:11:35 PM
FYI - I KNOW THE SITE IS DOWN A LOT.  IT'S AS FRUSTRATING TO ME AS IT IS TO EVERYONE ELSE.


I am sure I have said every cuss word I know, plus a few I made up, this morning....patience is NOT one of my virtues...thanks Klaas.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 12:12:14 PM
I hope Nat's remains have been found....but I find it odd that the US media isn't on it if true.....RED CALL TIM!!!

AND THE TECH GUY!!! Keep us up and going..........please???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:13:14 PM
Psychopathic confesses that killed Stephany

LIMA | The evidence against him collapsed. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot confessed in recent hours that killed Flores Stephany Ramirez (23) and, although then allegedly refused to sign their statements, previously told the police some details of the gruesome crime that shocked Peru and the world.

From the early hours of last Sunday, specialized agents Homicide Investigation Division of the Dirincri began questioning the alleged psychopath. Until then he had shown abroad eluded detectives, but the experience of the past did the truth finally came out.

Joran had fallen into a number of contradictions, but one of them was key to the police. The hours and it was important not match the version of the receptionist at the Hotel TAC, Adeli Abad Marchena (19), who had earlier told that at approximately 0810 hours on Sunday last seen leaving the Dutchman apparently quiet of your room.

"When I retired to my home, I passed him in both hands and had two cups of coffee or chocolate, apparently had bought at the tap Primax is located on the side of my work," said the young detectives.

THE CONFESSION. It was at this evidence that Joran admitted to having left the hotel to buy some drinks, when he apparently had not had any problems with Stephany. At the time of questioning, police said, Joran is "broken" and said that returning to the room 309 of the hotel, found the young man checking his laptop.

This would have enraged because the girl told him she knew who he was (an alleged murderer in Aruba). According to the confession of the murderer, that moment was out of control and struck three times. "The last coup was in the back, neck, and was fatal," said one of the officers in charge of investigations.

However, when Joran and was willing to give details of his criminal action, something had suddenly refused to continue working. Indeed, he said he would not sign the statement until his lawyer was with him. It should be noted that this statement was made in the presence of a representative of the Attorney General, so it has full validity to the research process.

Analyze your computer Another key to the investigations is the laptop Var der Sloot Joran, who had held various communications after committing the murder of Stephany. In addition, police are looking into the computer information about other crimes allegedly committed abroad. It should be noted that the alleged murderer remains in the care of four policemen, because they feared that threaten life.

http://www.correoperu.com.pe/correo/nota.php?txtEdi_id=4&txtSecci_id=78&txtSecci_parent=0&txtNota_id=368222


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on June 08, 2010, 12:14:29 PM
http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2F
Two girls reported missing after Joran stay in Colombia
06/08/10


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:14:43 PM
I hope Nat's remains have been found....but I find it odd that the US media isn't on it if true.....RED CALL TIM!!!

AND THE TECH GUY!!! Keep us up and going..........please???

AMEN!  Can anyone front the server some Zanax so that it is not under stress?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lovinlife on June 08, 2010, 12:14:51 PM
Many a nights, when I can't sleep, I come to Natalee's thread and read.  Half the time not following all the ins and outs but definitely feeling the friendship, dedication and pain that has continued for these five years.  May God give us answers and Natalee be brought home to rest in peace, instead of that armpit island.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 12:15:42 PM
Whew, finally got approved.  Old poster here returning after many years.

Has anyone seen this article yet?  Or is anyone surprised by it?

Not sure of it's validity, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2F

Hopefully this link works.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 12:19:07 PM
Trying to decipher the papiamento: Sounds like two tourist ladies, one age 51 from Canada and the other age 47 from England, were driving their jeep around the Alta Visto chapel and found something in the dirt near the water tower that they thought could be bones.

Maybe everyone, even the tourists, are a bit hysterical today. Like the ones that saw a body in the sand formation underwater.

Absolutely my opinion (= guess) only. Just playing with the words in the pap news report.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: wreck on June 08, 2010, 12:21:22 PM
I know it is "translation errors" -- but it seems EVERY single article has the proper "gender" reversed!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 12:24:47 PM
from Twitter

already were buying Vaseline  Joran van der Sloot will be held at the Miguel Castro


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 12:24:59 PM
Whew, finally got approved.  Old poster here returning after many years.

Has anyone seen this article yet?  Or is anyone surprised by it?

Not sure of it's validity, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2F

Hopefully this link works.

Translation from the link above.  Thanks, Dragnet!

LIMA - The South American media following the reports about Joran van der Sloot in quick succession.  In Colombia, the police now launched an investigation into the disappearance of two girls from the capital Bogota.  The disappearance coincided with the stay of Joran van der Sloot in Bogota between 6 and May 14

 Van der Sloot is the newspaper on various security monitoring of the major casinos in town. The girls visited the same casinos. Van der Sloot who spent two days in hotels in the Colombian capital.

Peru's La República knew news earlier today reported that the authorities in Aruba, the remains of Natalee Holloway had been found. The Attorney General of the OM in Aruba speaks against those messages, however.

 Last week it was clear that Joran van der Sloot Natalee's mother has tried to extort. He would, upon payment of $ 250,000, where Natalee is buried like to have known.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 12:25:31 PM
http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2F
Two girls reported missing after Joran stay in Colombia
06/08/10

Oh no!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 12:25:46 PM
I need updated information to send Art Wood PLEASE

Did they find Natalee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:35:06 PM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?


I read in one of the articles that he was expecting a female visitor on Wednesday.
It has to be his Mommy since I doubt any other female would want to see that POS.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 12:35:41 PM
Whew, finally got approved.  Old poster here returning after many years.

Has anyone seen this article yet?  Or is anyone surprised by it?

Not sure of it's validity, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2F

Hopefully this link works.

Translation from the link above.  Thanks, Dragnet!

LIMA - The South American media following the reports about Joran van der Sloot in quick succession.  In Colombia, the police now launched an investigation into the disappearance of two girls from the capital Bogota.  The disappearance coincided with the stay of Joran van der Sloot in Bogota between 6 and May 14

 Van der Sloot is the newspaper on various security monitoring of the major casinos in town. The girls visited the same casinos. Van der Sloot who spent two days in hotels in the Colombian capital.

Peru's La República knew news earlier today reported that the authorities in Aruba, the remains of Natalee Holloway had been found. The Attorney General of the OM in Aruba speaks against those messages, however.

 Last week it was clear that Joran van der Sloot Natalee's mother has tried to extort. He would, upon payment of $ 250,000, where Natalee is buried like to have known.

Actually I see that trimmonthelake posted the link before I did.  Sorry, we must have been posting at the same time and the server keeps going down apparently. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 12:35:54 PM
I'm not sure if this went thru or not - REPOSTING;

++++

I just spoke to TJ to see if there was any truth to Natalee being found, he did not know anything yet.

He did tell me that Dave is going to Aruba, he spoke to him a little bit ago.

Please, I do not know if this was a scheduled trip - or because they have found Natalee.

I asked - how long ago did you speak to Dave - we were disconnected.

Right before that - he said he will call me as soon as he knows something.

He is going to be on TRU TV at 1 pm and JVM tonite and also another show later in the evening, but I didn't catch which show.

+++

to add,

SUGGESTION / RECOMMENDATION

I THINK THIS MAY HELP -

IF YOU ARE USING MULTIPLE WINDOWS OR TABS, PLEASE CLOSE THOSE

THESE ARE ALSO TAKING UP BANDWIDTH ON THE SERVER.

For instance, if you have a window open and a group of tabs opened to Caylee, Missing persons, Natalee, Haleigh, or others - It may help the traffic if we all just use one window or tab for the time being.

If you have SM.com open and SM.net open, you may consider closing SM.com (front page) and just using SM.net for the forum.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:36:35 PM
So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?


I read in one of the articles that he was expecting a female visitor on Wednesday.
It has to be his Mommy since I doubt any other female would want to see that POS.
Well, maybe that she male Julia...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 12:36:42 PM
I need updated information to send Art Wood PLEASE

Did they find Natalee



Blonde,

See my post above - translation of article states that the Aruban OM is speaking against the reports that Natalee's remains have been found.

Quote
Peru's La República knew news earlier today reported that the authorities in Aruba, the remains of Natalee Holloway had been found. The Attorney General of the OM in Aruba speaks against those messages, however.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 08, 2010, 12:39:00 PM
No worries, Dragnet....Welcome.   

We're all having trouble due to the server. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 12:40:25 PM
I need updated information to send Art Wood PLEASE

Did they find Natalee



Blonde,

See my post above - translation of article states that the Aruban OM is speaking against the reports that Natalee's remains have been found.

Quote
Peru's La República knew news earlier today reported that the authorities in Aruba, the remains of Natalee Holloway had been found. The Attorney General of the OM in Aruba speaks against those messages, however.


So that means it's possible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 12:40:29 PM
while I keep trying to get on...I am also looking at RU to see if there is anything about Nat's remains being found....I saw this and thought it was worth sharing....be sure to read the last paragraph
      
      
Ezgoing PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:48 pm       

So many conjectures and imagined scenarios. The horrific murder of this young woman leaves nothing whatsoever to the imagination. One press release I read, in Spanish, referred the "slaughter" of this beautiful young woman. As awful of an ordeal the Holloway/Twitty families endured, I guess it is of some solace that they did not have these vivid descriptions right in their face. Some teeny comfort I guess.

My opinion of Joran was always that he was a spoiled young man who had had way too much freedom but was a sort of "gentle giant". I would have never begun to imagine he would be capable of inflicting the pain and suffering that Ms. Flores suffered prior to dying. It makes me wonder just how much brutality he had demonstrated in his youth in Aruba, and how many more murders he has committed. Mind boggling. And, too, that same article I read referred to his having sold young women into prostitution (a miserable, ugly, and hopeless life).

Here right in front of us IMO is a monster we have been watching for 5 years - making excuses for - finding charming with an innocent, boyish demeanor. It makes me sick.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 12:41:19 PM
"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she wanted to leave. I had fetched my things," the murderer was justified.
======================================================================================================
Surely this is a bad translation...................we were having sex (but there was no evidence of that - still trying to act like the sexual predator - probably is impotent)

"The murderer was justified?"  - Everything is justified in the mind of a psychopath

I don't think Joran knows she was a lesbian...I think he tried and she resisted and got killed for do so (plus other factors)
and I don't think Peru LE is telling him she was a lesbian...just letting Joran keep digging his hole deeper and deeper..



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 08, 2010, 12:41:52 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594152,00.html
Joran Van der Sloot: The Making of a Predator
Tuesday, June 08, 2010


Joran Van der Sloot, 22, is being held in Peru, where authorities say he has confessed to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. Van der Sloot was, of course, the chief suspect in the disappearance and presumed death of Natalee Holloway in Aruba. In that case, there was insufficient evidence to charge him with a crime, and he was released.

Van der Sloot reportedly explained to Peruvian authorities that he killed Flores when she “intruded” into his personal life by looking at his notebook computer and learning he was involved in Holloway's disappearance.

Indeed, Van der Sloot seems to be a killer whose violence erupts from him, rather than the kind of serial killer who methodically and secretively stalks victims and carefully disposes of their remains. He was, after all, seen walking into his hotel room with Flores on a hotel video surveillance camera, and the two had been seen together before the alleged crime. He was known to have spent time with Holloway, as well. Those facts don’t support the kind of methodical stalking of victims that organized serial killers are known for.

Organized serial killers plan their crimes for weeks, months or years. They typically are aware of the internal need to kill. They are known to restrain their victims and bring murder weapons with them to the scenes of their crimes, keeping the weapons with them when they disappear.

Disorganized serial killers happen upon their victims at random and may be “provoked” to kill not just for the perverse joy of it, but by overwhelming feelings of rage or humiliation.

They often leave murder weapons at the scenes of their crimes and do little to dispose of the physical evidence associated with their crimes. What unites organized and disorganized serial killers, I believe, is a perverse connection with death. Ending life reaches them at a deep level that is connected to their own early and unexplored psychological traumas. The “projection” of their own powerlessness and helplessness and, ultimately, lifelessness is the terrible force that overtakes them—again and again. Alcohol and drugs can contribute to dissolving their defenses and rendering them more likely to be homicidal.
 

Joran Van der Sloot traveled the world in the five years since he was held in Aruba for the murder of Natalee Holloway. One or more unexplained murders anywhere he visited may involve him. But something also has to have killed off Van der Sloot’s capacity to contain his rage and to empathize with the suffering of others. And the scene of that crime, stored deep inside the mind of Van der Sloot himself, is not yet known.

It may well be that every episode of violence in Joran Van der Sloot’s life has seemed to him as though it would be the last one—beginning with the emotional or physical violence that turned him into a predator.

Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatry correspondent for Fox News Channel and a New York Times bestselling author. His book, "Living the Truth: Transform Your Life Through the Power of Insight and Honesty" has launched a new self-help movement including www.livingthetruth.com. Dr. Ablow can be reached at info@keithablow.com.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 12:41:52 PM
http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-07/ontractualidad1093733.html

translated:

She was killed by reviewing your laptop
By J. Yucra

It is professional poker player and believed to have an ace up his sleeve, but his alibi collapsed like a house of cards. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (23) had no other choice but to confess to the murder of the young Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), whom he met at a casino in Miraflores. "Yes, I killed her. I did, I accept," he said with a breathtaking cold, with no sign of repentance.

According to police sources, the murderer, during interrogation by more than ten hours, attributed the crime to the anger that caused him to find the girl reviewing the files on your laptop.

It is presumed that she opened her e-mails that the subject had known about his criminal acts. Then the girl confirmed the suspicion in the Internet search engines, where there is abundant information of the crime of Natalee Holloway (17) and the extortion of their parents, in Aruba, facts of which he is the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds.

Would have revealed that the crime occurred after 8:20 am on Sunday 30 May at the hotel 'Tac' of Miraflores, where they had taken after meeting at the casino 'Atlantic'. Joran had gone to buy bread and coffee for breakfast. She took advantage of his absence to check your laptop and discovered he was a murderer and extortionist.

Punching and racket
"He came back and was enraged. The two began to argue violently. The man shot to death," a police source told.

This version is confirmed by the coffee residue found on the floor and the victim had bruises on various parts of the body.

Also, the summary of autopsy determined that she showed signs of ten punches in the face that broke his nose and mouth, causing a time-to-eye inflammation.

In addition, five blows to the head and neck with a racket head trauma caused her death necessary. She also had bruises on the hands and feet, as they tried to defend himself, but was little he could do to a man over 90 meters tall.


Then, after committing the murder, the stranger kept his belongings in two suitcases and valuables from the victim, as well as jewelry and money, to leave the accommodation.

On the other hand, it was learned that yesterday three Forensic psychologists were gathered for at least five hours with foreign countries.

His public defender, Carla Odría, waived the defense when he heard the confession.

G'day Monkeys.

Still catching up but just a word of warning about taking the translations too literally :

A man 90 metres tall would be about 295 feet tall.  lol

Looking forward to hearing more about the charges against this waste of space.
According to this article, Joran confessed on Sunday.
"Van der Sloot had confessed his crime minutes after 9 pm last Sunday. After a deep breath and fell silent for long seconds."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 08, 2010, 12:43:19 PM
I hope Nat's remains have been found....but I find it odd that the US media isn't on it if true.....RED CALL TIM!!!

AND THE TECH GUY!!! Keep us up and going..........please???

AMEN!  Can anyone front the server some Zanax so that it is not under stress?

((edit to remove smilie))

The only info I can find about finding Natalee's remains has to do with the pic's the couple took underwater last year.....bummer


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 12:43:25 PM
Whew, finally got approved.  Old poster here returning after many years.

Has anyone seen this article yet?  Or is anyone surprised by it?

Not sure of it's validity, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2F

Hopefully this link works.

Translation from the link above.  Thanks, Dragnet!

LIMA - The South American media following the reports about Joran van der Sloot in quick succession.  In Colombia, the police now launched an investigation into the disappearance of two girls from the capital Bogota.  The disappearance coincided with the stay of Joran van der Sloot in Bogota between 6 and May 14

 Van der Sloot is the newspaper on various security monitoring of the major casinos in town. The girls visited the same casinos. Van der Sloot who spent two days in hotels in the Colombian capital.

Peru's La República knew news earlier today reported that the authorities in Aruba, the remains of Natalee Holloway had been found. The Attorney General of the OM in Aruba speaks against those messages, however.

 Last week it was clear that Joran van der Sloot Natalee's mother has tried to extort. He would, upon payment of $ 250,000, where Natalee is buried like to have known.

I thought he left Aruba on May 13th?  How could he have been in Bogota during the days?  Are they talking about 2010, or another year?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Whew, finally got approved.  Old poster here returning after many years.

Has anyone seen this article yet?  Or is anyone surprised by it?

Not sure of it's validity, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2F

Hopefully this link works.

Translation from the link above.  Thanks, Dragnet!

LIMA - The South American media following the reports about Joran van der Sloot in quick succession.  In Colombia, the police now launched an investigation into the disappearance of two girls from the capital Bogota.  The disappearance coincided with the stay of Joran van der Sloot in Bogota between 6 and May 14

 Van der Sloot is the newspaper on various security monitoring of the major casinos in town. The girls visited the same casinos. Van der Sloot who spent two days in hotels in the Colombian capital.

Peru's La República knew news earlier today reported that the authorities in Aruba, the remains of Natalee Holloway had been found. The Attorney General of the OM in Aruba speaks against those messages, however.

 Last week it was clear that Joran van der Sloot Natalee's mother has tried to extort. He would, upon payment of $ 250,000, where Natalee is buried like to have known.

I thought he left Aruba on May 13th?  How could he have been in Bogota during the days?  Are they talking about 2010, or another year?

AZSunny - I agree the dates are weird.  I bolded above though where it also says he stayed there for 2 nights (in Bogota, Columbia).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 08, 2010, 12:47:08 PM
sorry...that didn't look right...the laughing smiley was to do with the Zanax joke..not what I posted below it

((slinking off to my corner))


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:03:17 PM
http://peru21.pe/impresa/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:05:16 PM
Joran van der Sloot confessed to the crime
If it is found that the motive for the murder of Stephany Flores was not stolen, the Dutchman could spend 30 years in prison.

By Ana Briceño

Could not handle the weight of the evidence. The Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, 22, confessed yesterday that killed Flores Stephany Ramirez in Room 309 of the TAC hotel in Miraflores.

According to reliable sources of the Division of Police Homicide Squad, the European university killed between 8:20 am and 9:30 a.m. Sunday May 30, after they passed the night together.

Why murder? According to his statement to the police, argued with Stephany Joran after buying two cups of coffee and bread at the grocery store located across from the hotel. "When he got to the room, he finds it Stephany looking for information on the laptop. It seems she discovers that he is charged with the murder of Natalee Holloway, in 2005, and extort money from their parents, "the source said.

Apparently, Stephany rebuked him for the killing and that infuriated the Dutchman, who began to beat her until he killed her, according to police information. Also, it was learned that since yesterday, Joran Van Der Sloot has a private lawyer, who would have detailed the particulars of the murder.

MOM would come. The stranger managed to communicate by telephone with his mother, Anita Van Der Sloot, who is dedicated to teaching in the Netherlands. In Chile, Joran also spoke to her and told him the charges for which he is accused. Holland Media tried to interview her, but she refused and remained silent. She would arrive in Lima in the coming days to support your child.

Seedless. Although Ricardo Flores, Stephany's father said his daughter would have been doped by the Dutchman to take her to the hotel, the results of biological and toxicological examinations of the Institute of Forensic Medicine have shown otherwise.

"She was not pepeada, but alcohol was found in the analysis," said one doctor. In addition, it was found that was neck was broken by the many blows he suffered with a tennis racket.

He was found bleeding in a muscle near his neck, which was examined by pathology. There was no sperm in the vaginal area of the victim. "I broke the neck and show break in the nose and mouth. She tried to defend at all times, "said the specialist.

I met him. Stephany Van Der Sloot met on Friday 28 May and was to meet with him early on Sunday 30 for a poker tournament at the casino Atlactic City, not knowing that it would be an appointment with death. He never told his friends or his father that day was to play poker and he was going to do with the Dutchman.

Not going to Lurigancho. Meanwhile, the head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal, ruled yesterday that Van der Sloot will be held in the prisons in Lurigancho and San Jorge, as had been speculated.

Lurigancho explained that it is excluded because it is overcrowded and there is a commitment of his administration not to send an inmate more. At San Jorge, meanwhile, inmates are only primary and the Dutchman, who has a background in other countries, is accused of a felony as murder.

There are, 'said Castro-Castro, Piedras Gordas, but also criminal in Canete or Aucayama Carquin in Huaral, because it can be any prison in the Lima region.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/491210/van-der-sloot-no-ira-penal-lurigancho




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:05:18 PM
FYI - NOBODY IS MORE FRUSTRATED THAN ME

Sometimes when the forum is down the SM front page is still working.  In case you want to continue posting there. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 01:16:11 PM
Imagine if he is tied to other murders...
That would make me fall out of my chair...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 01:20:06 PM
FYI - NOBODY IS MORE FRUSTRATED THAN ME

Sometimes when the forum is down the SM front page is still working.  In case you want to continue posting there. 


thanks Klaas....also please do not post photographs/pictures....just post the links....I think the pictures take a lot of band width (that's what I was told anyway)....I appreciate everything posted....and the tenacity to get something posted....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 08, 2010, 01:20:38 PM
I doubt his confession is accurate. I believe ALL of his confessions contain some underlying truths and many lies. I dont think the Peruvian officials care that he won't sign his confession. I really think they don't believe all the details either, only parts, and prefer to get him on robbery, thus being able to give him a life sentence. And even if his confession is accepted and they give him a reduced sentence, if, and BIG IF he ever gets out of a Peruvian jail he will be extradicted to the US to stand trial for extortion/fraud.

I just wonder how many Arubans are worried about that laptop and what's on it. And if there is information about Natalee's remains I hope that it would be shared with the US as we all know the information isn't safe with Aruba.

How's your day so far Deepak and Satish? Van Der Straaten?.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 01:36:39 PM
Peru: Dutchman trial could last 12-18 months (criminal)
Radio Netherlands Worldwide - makes segundosEl trial Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who confessed to killing a Peruvian blows in a hotel, could last between 12 and 18 months, ...
 
The trial of the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who confessed to killing a Peruvian blows in a hotel, could last between 12 and 18 months, estimated the criminal defense lawyer Luis Lamas Puccio.

Lamas Puccio told AFP that the confession of the Netherlands aged 22 might shorten the trial that might otherwise have been spread over three years.

"Having recognized its worth, the process will be completely quickly, will be trimmed substantially, this process could be completed in one year and a half years," said Lamas Puccio.

According to the lawyer, Van der Sloot could not qualify for the benefit of reduction of penalty that is recognized by sincere confession.

"The fact that the penalty can be mitigated by what is known as an honest confession is not necessary in this case. According to the Penal Code, the confession is when the offender is sincere to the authorities before a fact that has not yet been discovered , and in this case because the crime was discovered, "the lawyer said.

"I think it is murder, first because there was ferocity, has been beaten to death and there have been cruelty to the body. If they had not given these characteristics could speak of a simple murder," he added.

"The murder is punishable by 15 to 35 years" in Peru, he said.

The Dutchman, who is also related to the disappearance of a U.S. citizen in Aruba five years ago, confessed on Monday before a prosecutor and a defense lawyer killing Stephany Flores, 21, in a hotel in Lima.

A police source said that Van der Sloot confessed to have exploded in anger when Flores took his laptop, which presumably had information regarding the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, 30 May 2005 in Aruba.

Holloway was seen with Van der Sloot and then never heard of it. So far his body has not been located.

http://www.rnw.nl/espanol/bulletin/per%C3%BA-juicio-a-holand%C3%A9s-podr%C3%ADa-durar-de-12-a-18-meses-penalista


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:37:26 PM
Article about the 2 Colombian girls that are missing:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranColombia1.jpg


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 01:38:53 PM
Imagine if he is tied to other murders...
That would make me fall out of my chair...

I wouldn't. No doubt in my mind, ever.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:41:21 PM
On Tito's facebook (not sure if I already posted this)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/TitoFacebook060810.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 01:53:51 PM
Here we go again:

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1000%2FNieuws%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F488959%2F2010%2F06%2F08%2FAdvocaat-mogelijk-valse-bekentenis-Joran.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranFalse1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 01:54:34 PM
Imagine if he is tied to other murders...
That would make me fall out of my chair...

I wouldn't. No doubt in my mind, ever.
me either - he's killed someone else along the line.

I would guess, Thailand, Hong Kong, Venezuela, or the newest - Colombia.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: NM on June 08, 2010, 02:05:33 PM
Wow! the jurin cover up machine has slowed doen in 5 years. For Natalee the confession was with drawn in 1-2 hours!

My money is on the evidence. screw whatever jurin says anyway!

aruba really sucks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 02:35:29 PM
Two women missing in Colombia during Van der Sloot stay in that country

The young men were frequent visitors of exclusive casinos. Journalists from the neighboring country are in Lima to follow the case of the Netherlands

Before arriving in Lima on May 14, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot was in Colombia where she arrived on 6 May. What did those days in the neighboring country? Same here, visiting amusement arcades.

However, his stay coincided with the disappearance of two Colombian women, who were also frequent visitors of exclusive casinos.

"In those days (the Netherlands) visited amusement arcades in the city of Bogotá, as shown in the video security of premises. We know you were staying in two hotels, so the police started investigations in our country, "Colombian journalists told the Dirincri effective, according to a local newspaper.

In the next few hours will carry out the reconstruction of the crime at the hotel Stephany Flores TAC, where Van der Sloot killed her, he confessed to police last night.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491661/dos-mujeres-desaparecieron-colombia-durante-estadia-van-der-sloot-ese-pais

The reconstruction of the murder of Stephany Flores could be done in the next few hours
During the morning circulated the story that the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot would be brought to the hotel in Miraflores Tac

The possibility that in the next few hours will make the reconstruction of the events on Sunday morning May 30 in room 309 of Tac hotel in Miraflores, alerted local and foreign journalists covering the case.

The men of the press remain outside the headquarters of the Dirincri to the expectation of what will happen Tuesday with Dutchman Joran van der Sloot after he confessed on the eve blows that killed the young Stephany Flores.

According to his statement, Van der Sloot killed the daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores because it found on your personal computer information implicating him in the murder of American teenager Natalee Holloway.

After the confession of the crime, the police would carry out the reconstruction of events as part of investigations into the crime that has shaken public opinion and has transcended borders to the background of the now-confessed murderer of Stephany.
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/491602/reconstruccion-homicidio-stephany-flores-podria-realizarse-proximas-horas

At any time could be determined what penalty will be taken Joran van der Sloot

 | CPN RADIO - 08 JUN | At any time could be determined what penalty will be taken Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the alleged murderer of the young Stephany Flores, 21.

According to his statement, Van der Sloot killed the daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores, because it found on your personal computer information implicating him in the murder of American girl Natalee Holloway.

In the last hours traveling version of the National Penitentiary Institute staff for conditioning a foreign cell in a prison in Lima.

These reports indicate that Joran van der Sloot would be brought to the Miguel Castro Castro Penitentiary, in the district of San Juan de Lurigancho.

In this case, your cell will belong to the so-called flag of prevention in the past housed prisoners for terrorism.
http://www.cpnradio.pe/html/2010/06/08/3/9213.htm

Words kill: x-Van der Slot through their sentences

Joran Van der Sloot, until a few hours ago main suspect in the murder of Stephany Flores, finally broke yesterday afternoon and confessed to police that he killed the girl because she discovered her dark past. Up until now could only guess and speculate on the nature of the personality of the Dutchman, but nothing like the phrases that came from his own mouth by admitting the crime to the police, to see its profile.
"I did not do it. She intruded into my private life

"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she just wanted to leave. She had fetched my things "

"He took my laptop without permission and learned through photos and videos that I was involved in a murder in Aruba"

"He had no right. I went, I was scared, we discussed and tried to escape. I took the neck and hit her ... "

At this point, the young "graphic" this description of the right hand extended with four fingers together and thumbs up, like a karate chop in the neck, says the newspaper La Republica.

But that's not all, during the trip he took land from Tacna to the capital was to open dialogue with Interpol agents and attempted to escort him in charge of confusing to say "I have not killed anyone. If you want the murderer looking at the hotel "

Police sources also noted that Van der Sloot admitted that erupted in anger when he saw the girl checking your laptop, where there were reports in the court granted him freedom in the case of death of American Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005.
http://www.terra.com.pe/noticias/noticias/act2365615/palabras-que-matan-radiografia-van-der-slot-traves-sus-frases.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 02:37:33 PM
BRAVO ELAINE!!!

Elaine S wrote:
In my opinion, Aruba’s case boiled down to a personality contest. While most never met Beth or Joran, sides were drawn, and somewhere along the way, it wasn’t about justice, it was about who was disliked more- a “poor” 17 year old kid who lied because he was “scared” and yet had the presence of mind to make up a story, a “little” lie, about dropping Natalee at her hotel even before he met her family and friends or a Mother looking for truth.

I remember being glued to the news every night, and becoming infuriated with statements coming out of Aruba… to paraphrase a couple - ”this case will be solved in 48 hours,” “she’s dead, I know, I saw the files.” And, I could only imagine Natalee’s family being on a roller coaster ride like I was. Hope was turned to ashes time and time and time again. Did I like everything Beth did? No! In time did I understand why she did it? Absolutely.

Aruba was Joran’s ballpark; he was the home team. Not so in Peru. The tables were turned, and it appears now that he lost the game. He can’t get angry, not like the way the game’s played, and take his bat and ball and go home!

The excuse is that Beth made him who he is… in my opinion, that’s pure and unadulterated bullshit! The intimation seems to be that because she gave him money, she enabled him to go to Peru and sadly kill a girl – this is beyond bullshit. If you believe that, the same could be said for the infamous night he went to Carlos and Charlie’s… it was Paul’s fault for letting him sneak out of the house, and Anita should never have gone to Holland because if she hadn’t, he wouldn’t have snuck out that night!

For 5 years he’s been enabled by many people along the way to do whatever he wanted to do, and say whatever he wanted to say, whenever he felt like it. And, people made excuses for the “why!” I wonder how many of your children have the luxury of never having had a job, not knowing what it’s like to have responsibilities, but yet – are able to travel from country to country doing whatever it is they feel like doing whenever the mood hits, and if along the way, he or she has to throw somebody under the bus to get more funds, mom, dad, whoever… what the hell, it’s okay, you understand!

I’ve said this for 5 years, and I’ll say it again…. If my daughter disappeared, and the circumstances were as they were with Natalee, you can bet your ass that until I took my last breath, I’d be relentless. And, as someone else said, if I had to sell my soul to the devil, I’d do it gladly!

If Joran had help disappearing Natalee… and, by the way, there’s never been a doubt in my mind that he’s complicit in doing so…. I betcha they’re quivering in their pants just about now.

I never thought the story would end like this…. or maybe it’s only the beginning, and everything will come out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 02:48:43 PM
Glenda Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:47 pm       

JoJoe wrote:
He came back into the room after getting the coffee, saw her on his comp and flipped. he had private stuff about Natalee on his comp, maybe he kept journals on there about what had happened and what he had done. She saw it and he couldn't let it get out into the public so he had to shut her up, he just didn't plan on getting caught. But now that he did there gonna see whats on the comp anyways, He has no other choice but to confess. I see it happening the way he said. But thats just a thought from me on how this confession could makes since. IDK



Then he gave up his computer to the Chilean Authorities .... who gave it to Peru... Sorry, but the only way you can delete something from your computer is to burn it and throw it in the ocean, otherwise, the FBI can see everything you've ever done, written or messaged and JORAN KNOWS THIS, and SO DOES THE DUTCH AUTHORITIES who have had access to the suspects computer all along... Will they step in? JMO he set them up to help him.


Hmmm  this may be right he opened the door to the Netherlands. He rather take the his prison time in Netherland for the Death of Natalee instead of Peru for Stephany 
"I see it happening the way he said. But thats just a thought from me on how this confession could makes since. IDK"
Gee, a supposed journalist that can't spell.
What a friggin' idiot she is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 02:59:17 PM
Van der Sloot Confession Leads to New Search in Aruba
More details emerge in the Flores murder
(NEWSER) – Joran Van der Sloot has confessed—to one killing. But as more details in the Stephany Flores Ramirez case leak, new information regarding Natalee Holloway's disappearance may have come to light: Investigators in Aruba are searching near a bird sanctuary. More from the Daily Beast and the Telegraph:
•   Van der Sloot may have bankrolled his trip to Peru using money he extorted from the Holloway family.
•   Van der Sloot said he met Flores at a poker table; she was up, he was down.
•   He discovered her using his computer after going out to get coffee in the early morning; according to a leaked police report, she was looking at a file filled with Holloway-related press clippings and legal documents.
•   He allegedly threw Flores around a tiled room, bashed her head on a wooden bed frame, and battered her with a tennis racket.
•   He had bloody clothes in his possession when he was arrested in Chile.
•   He faces a maximum sentence of 35 years if convicted of Flores' murder.
•   He will be transferred to Miguel Castro Castro Prison next weekend, and it's not a pretty place. A human-rights investigation 4 years ago found prisoners were tortured, raped, and left for long periods in pitch-black isolation. Read one horrific account here.

http://www.newser.com/story/91778/van-der-sloot-confession-leads-to-new-search-in-aruba.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 08, 2010, 03:03:13 PM
CNN on Stephany/Natalee story now for anyone interested.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 03:06:01 PM
Glenda Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:47 pm       

JoJoe wrote:
He came back into the room after getting the coffee, saw her on his comp and flipped. he had private stuff about Natalee on his comp, maybe he kept journals on there about what had happened and what he had done. She saw it and he couldn't let it get out into the public so he had to shut her up, he just didn't plan on getting caught. But now that he did there gonna see whats on the comp anyways, He has no other choice but to confess. I see it happening the way he said. But thats just a thought from me on how this confession could makes since. IDK



Then he gave up his computer to the Chilean Authorities .... who gave it to Peru... Sorry, but the only way you can delete something from your computer is to burn it and throw it in the ocean, otherwise, the FBI can see everything you've ever done, written or messaged and JORAN KNOWS THIS, and SO DOES THE DUTCH AUTHORITIES who have had access to the suspects computer all along... Will they step in? JMO he set them up to help him.


Hmmm  this may be right he opened the door to the Netherlands. He rather take the his prison time in Netherland for the Death of Natalee instead of Peru for Stephany 
"I see it happening the way he said. But thats just a thought from me on how this confession could makes since. IDK"
Gee, a supposed journalist that can't spell.
What a friggin' idiot she is.

*** HAS THIS BEEN POSTED YET?
According to another Peru publication, 2 girls are missing in Colombia that were at the same casino Joran was in earlier in May;
UPDATE LIMA - The South American media following the reports about Joran van der Sloot at a rapid pace. In Colombia, the police now launched an investigation into the disappearance of two girls from the capital Bogota. Writes that the Peruvian newspaper El Comercio. The disappearance coincided with the stay of Joran van der Sloot in Bogota between 6 and May 14

Van der Sloot is the newspaper on various security monitoring of the major casinos in town. The girls visited the same casinos. Van der Sloot spent those days in two hotels in the Colombian capital.

Peru's La República knew news earlier today reported that the authorities in Aruba, the remains of Natalee Holloway had been found. The Attorney-General of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba, however, speaks against those messages.
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488992/2010/06/08/Resten-Natalee-Holloway-gevonden-op-Aruba.dhtml (http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/488992/2010/06/08/Resten-Natalee-Holloway-gevonden-op-Aruba.dhtml)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 03:06:08 PM
I've disabled EVERYTHING for guests for now.  Let's see if that helps!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on June 08, 2010, 03:06:24 PM
http://www.newser.com/story/91792/natalees-mom-clams-up-about-van-der-sloot.html

Natalee's Mom Clams Up About Van der Sloot
FBI orders Beth Holloway not to discuss suspect in disappearance
Posted 56 minutes ago


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 03:06:27 PM
Joran wanted a "rich chick

by Johan Van den Dongen
ORANGE CITY - Joran van der Sloot in Lima wanted a rich woman hooked. The thought left him in a poker friend in Aruba not let go.

Joran, suspected of the murder of the wealthy Stephany Flores, became obsessed by size according to the poker idea. The Dutchman met Joran at the poker room at the Radisson Hotel in Aruba. "During the period that Joran's father died and was buried, was Joran on Aruba and of course in the poker room," said the man, who wishes to remain anonymous.
Amazed
"When I was playing at a table with American tourists, slid Joran on. In the beginning you're still somewhat surprised, but, especially since you're the only two Dutch speaking, you become a little busy. Especially about the lack of playing qualities of the opponents. One day I came into a big hand contact with Joran. He put a considerable amount of money and I said: If you are just as good bluff and lie, you're a very good poker player. Eventually I went along and won that pot. When the ice was broken and we had a great evening. "
"Not too smart and too independent '
Joran van der Sloot was looking forward to a rich girl who's not too smart and not too independent "was recalls his anonymous friend is poker. "What struck me were the many smoke and drink Joran and his fixation on money."
"After a few hours chatting he noticed my wedding ring and asked amazed how it is that I already am married. He looked me straight in the eye and asked how it is when someone really loves you. I felt a little uncomfortable. I responded with a joke and said that marriage is the best way to get rich quickly in a short time. This created a bizarre discussion. "" Joran said that he was afraid for its future. He saw opportunities, but the idea of a rich lady to find and then be sure of much money, spoke to him. He had even wat criteria for a candidate. It was ugly, so they are easy to decorate was, he reasoned. He thought that one pregnancy wel for would ensure a quick marriage. "

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6883579/__Joran_wilde__rijke_chick__versieren__.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 03:08:27 PM
LMAO KLAAS!!!!! Did you get my email asking about the GUEST thingy?? LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:11:10 PM
I've disabled EVERYTHING for guests for now.  Let's see if that helps!

flyin' now... I was going to suggest that - but I didn't want to overstep my place as a poster. I do enough damage as it is....

<< giggles >>

++

minor turbulence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 03:11:29 PM
LMAO KLAAS!!!!! Did you get my email asking about the GUEST thingy?? LOL

Yes and I had already disabled for the NH thread but I've disabled completely now.  I didn't even ask RED or the Tech guy.  Heck with them, I'm going to do what it takes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 03:12:30 PM
I've disabled EVERYTHING for guests for now.  Let's see if that helps!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My wish was granted!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 08, 2010, 03:13:01 PM
LMAO KLAAS!!!!! Did you get my email asking about the GUEST thingy?? LOL

Yes and I had already disabled for the NH thread but I've disabled completely now.  I didn't even ask RED or the Tech guy.  Heck with them, I'm going to do what it takes.

Hooray for you!  I think it worked.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 03:13:55 PM
I've disabled EVERYTHING for guests for now.  Let's see if that helps!

mucho gracias!!

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
Van der Sloot Confession Leads to New Search in Aruba
More details emerge in the Flores murder
(NEWSER) – Joran Van der Sloot has confessed—to one killing. But as more details in the Stephany Flores Ramirez case leak, new information regarding Natalee Holloway's disappearance may have come to light: Investigators in Aruba are searching near a bird sanctuary. More from the Daily Beast and the Telegraph:
•   Van der Sloot may have bankrolled his trip to Peru using money he extorted from the Holloway family.
•   Van der Sloot said he met Flores at a poker table; she was up, he was down.
•   He discovered her using his computer after going out to get coffee in the early morning; according to a leaked police report, she was looking at a file filled with Holloway-related press clippings and legal documents.
•   He allegedly threw Flores around a tiled room, bashed her head on a wooden bed frame, and battered her with a tennis racket.
•   He had bloody clothes in his possession when he was arrested in Chile.
•   He faces a maximum sentence of 35 years if convicted of Flores' murder.
•   He will be transferred to Miguel Castro Castro Prison next weekend, and it's not a pretty place. A human-rights investigation 4 years ago found prisoners were tortured, raped, and left for long periods in pitch-black isolation. Read one horrific account here.

http://www.newser.com/story/91778/van-der-sloot-confession-leads-to-new-search-in-aruba.html

Like I said...he'll be DEAD in 6 months to a year in that prison.  I'm sure his butt will be hurting the whole time though...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: antunym on June 08, 2010, 03:17:43 PM
Thanks Klaas!! It was frustrating not being able to see what the fellow monkeys have found.  I sure hope that the news outlet that said Natalee was found knows more than we do or maybe something was found on the computer that can finally bring Natalee home.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:17:46 PM
I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Patriot on June 08, 2010, 03:20:55 PM
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but what if Joran borrowed money at the poker table from FR and told her he had the money to pay her back at the room?

Just a thought.

Forgive me if this has been discussed. Tough getting caught up around here.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:26:11 PM
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but what if Joran borrowed money at the poker table from FR and told her he had the money to pay her back at the room?

Just a thought.

Forgive me if this has been discussed. Tough getting caught up around here.

I personally don't like where this lead, but feel free.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 03:30:16 PM
Van der Sloot Stephany killed because she discovered his criminal past

'I did not do it. She intruded into my private life, "said the murderer confessed. Stephany Flores discovered the criminal record of the Dutchman, who shot to death

He surrendered to the evidence. Just on Monday afternoon confirmed by the mouths of their own Dutchman Joran van der Sloot that it killed the Peruvian Stephany Flores Ramirez (21) on Sunday May 30 at a hotel in Miraflores.

"I did not do it. The girl intruded into my private life," said the murderer during a police interrogation in the presence of a representative of the Public Ministry, so that the confession has full validity in the research process.

According to sources in the Homicide Division of the National Police, Van der Sloot killed between 8:20 a.m. Stephany and 9:30 a.m., the Italian newspaper Peru 21.

The Dutchman burst of anger when returning from buying coffee for both in a faucet, hotel located next to Tac, found the victim reviewing your laptop (laptop), who discovered that her companion was charged with the murder of Natalee Young Holloway 2005.

Apparently the Dutchman Stephany rebuked him for the murder happened in Aruba, which enraged him and caused the subject of almost two meters of killing blows.

The protocol of the autopsy established the cause of death as brain trauma, cervical and possible asphyxiation strangulation regards the Republic.

"We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she wanted to leave. I had fetched my things," the murderer was justified.

With these statements the police he was in those days looking for the motive, he learned that the computer is key to find more evidence against Van der Sloot now seeking to reduce his sentence arguing that killed Stephany product of an argument, to qualify manslaughter rather than qualified.

Meanwhile, the laptop is in the hands of experts in the police computer. Looking for information found on the girl who tragically met his death at the hands of the Dutchman.

Local newspapers report that a confessed murderer would have established a telephone conversation with his mother Anita Van der Sloot, who is dedicated to teaching in the Netherlands.

She offered to come to Peru to support, however, to hours of Monday night she had not entered the country, as monitored by the Directorate of Migration cites El Comercio.


http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-08-van-der-sloot-mato-a-stephany-porque-ella-descubrio-su-pasado-criminal-noticia_270724.html
""We reached the hotel, we were having sex, but first I went to buy breakfast. When I returned she wanted to leave. I had fetched my things," the murderer was justified."
Yeah, right, sure you were having sex with her, Joran. I am curious, did you get your red wings too?
So, which is it, boy, did she snoop on your computer or make it very clear you were not going to get any???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Patriot on June 08, 2010, 03:31:44 PM
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but what if Joran borrowed money at the poker table from FR and told her he had the money to pay her back at the room?

Just a thought.

Forgive me if this has been discussed. Tough getting caught up around here.

I personally don't like where this lead, but feel free.

I'm confused. What do you mean Rob?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 03:31:58 PM
I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.

They won't try.
Yesterday our president was on tv and he said that Joran will get the same basic treatment that all Dutch prisoners abroad get.
And tonight a very famous Dutch lawyer was on tv and he said the even the Dutch embassy will give Joran just the basics that everyone there gets; the 30 euros a month for toiletries etc and a list of Peruvian attorneys.
He also said that Joran is of no interest to the Netherlands, they don't even want him here.

Btw, Thursday night SBS will broadcast a "Joran/Stephany special" on tv. Knowing that network, they will just come up with some old (this week's) news and present it as "exclusive images" etc.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 03:33:26 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14.  

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Now that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 03:34:55 PM
Man O manochivitz, had a heck of a time getting in today but the huge news explains why....I just heard Shep on Foxnews state that the monster's mother is on the way to visit her murdering son...will that stupid B ever learn?   After that reportedly they are taking him for a walk thru of his crime & the coward was crying while he confessed.   Also, Fox has been showing clips of what a Peru prison is like & discussing sentence possibilities - he's going into a toilet bowl with some very foul elements (he probably wont survive) but Im rather ticked off at the low ball sentence he faces for the brutal murder of Stephany.

I'm praying that if this scum of the earth gets out in 10 years that the US can extradite him for the extortion charges...snit he stands to serve more time here for that! 

There has never been a doubt in my mind that he killed Natalee, this firms that up for me.   I hope Natalee's family gets answers at least, but how do you trust him since there might not be a way to verify what he confesses this time.   Meanwhile Beth opened up a center in D.C. today, bless her heart - just goes to show the difference of how she is highly respected versus what the Anthonys have tried to scam the public with (sidebar comment to this case).



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 03:36:12 PM
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but what if Joran borrowed money at the poker table from FR and told her he had the money to pay her back at the room?

Just a thought.

Forgive me if this has been discussed. Tough getting caught up around here.

I personally don't like where this lead, but feel free.

To me, it does not matter much why she went to his room, other than curiosity.

Too many more intriguing aspects (reason for the rage, content of cpu, info about Aruba) about this case.

Whatever the reason for going back to his room, his charm was working overtime.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on June 08, 2010, 03:36:49 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



And...Steph Watts, who is on Aruba, says that Dave Holloway is on his way to Aruba to meet with
prosecutors, police and his attorney.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:40:05 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 03:40:18 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



And...Steph Watts, who is on Aruba, says that Dave Holloway is on his way to Aruba to meet with
prosecutors, police and his attorney.

Thanks Magnolia.  Did they indicate that Dave's trip is about more than the 2 planned searches?  Is that how you took it?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 03:40:58 PM
LMAO KLAAS!!!!! Did you get my email asking about the GUEST thingy?? LOL

Yes and I had already disabled for the NH thread but I've disabled completely now.  I didn't even ask RED or the Tech guy.  Heck with them, I'm going to do what it takes.

WOOHOO...thank you...I was close to getting banned on the front page!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:41:33 PM
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but what if Joran borrowed money at the poker table from FR and told her he had the money to pay her back at the room?

Just a thought.

Forgive me if this has been discussed. Tough getting caught up around here.

I personally don't like where this lead, but feel free.

I'm confused. What do you mean Rob?

it will lead some - namely Renhoe - to say that she should have known who Joran was and it was her own fault.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 03:41:53 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:43:39 PM
I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.

They won't try.
Yesterday our president was on tv and he said that Joran will get the same basic treatment that all Dutch prisoners abroad get.
And tonight a very famous Dutch lawyer was on tv and he said the even the Dutch embassy will give Joran just the basics that everyone there gets; the 30 euros a month for toiletries etc and a list of Peruvian attorneys.
He also said that Joran is of no interest to the Netherlands, they don't even want him here.

Btw, Thursday night SBS will broadcast a "Joran/Stephany special" on tv. Knowing that network, they will just come up with some old (this week's) news and present it as "exclusive images" etc.

no offense to you Jo-An, but I will believe it when I see it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:44:24 PM
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but what if Joran borrowed money at the poker table from FR and told her he had the money to pay her back at the room?

Just a thought.

Forgive me if this has been discussed. Tough getting caught up around here.

I personally don't like where this lead, but feel free.

To me, it does not matter much why she went to his room, other than curiosity.

Too many more intriguing aspects (reason for the rage, content of cpu, info about Aruba) about this case.

Whatever the reason for going back to his room, his charm was working overtime.


This is what we need to be asking ourselves.  If you are of the belief that Joran murdered her after he came back with the coffee, then she must have spent the remainder of the night with him willingly.  I don't think it had anything to do with going back to his room for money.  I think she may have befriended him while playing cards, and that is the reason she went up to his room.  It's definetely something we have to consider. 

Unfortunately for all the women in the world, he did seem to have a certain "charm" (yeah, it's even hard to type) about him.  She may have simply wanted to "hang out", and he simply was set off by her looking at his computer files.  It's actually not that hard to believe, IMO...

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: akmom on June 08, 2010, 03:44:27 PM
AAAck tried to post a minute ago.  I will throw this out again, I said this last night.  Stephany was an intelligent girl......is it possible she knew very well about Joran and attempted to get close to him to sleuth out what happened to Natalee??  Just a thought, and I know I am most often wrong ; (


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 03:45:44 PM
I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.

They won't try.
Yesterday our president was on tv and he said that Joran will get the same basic treatment that all Dutch prisoners abroad get.
And tonight a very famous Dutch lawyer was on tv and he said the even the Dutch embassy will give Joran just the basics that everyone there gets; the 30 euros a month for toiletries etc and a list of Peruvian attorneys.
He also said that Joran is of no interest to the Netherlands, they don't even want him here.

Btw, Thursday night SBS will broadcast a "Joran/Stephany special" on tv. Knowing that network, they will just come up with some old (this week's) news and present it as "exclusive images" etc.

thanks Jo-An!

I am anxious to hear if Anita or any other family member plans to go to Peru or is he on his own?  I wonder how she feels knowing she and paulus created and reared a monster?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 03:46:39 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 
I would tend to believe Rob's theory above.  Not very far fecthed at all...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 03:46:56 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 

Joran is probably thinking to himself right now: "If only I had locked and/or password protected my computer when I went for coffee...."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:47:12 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 

I'm going with my original thought - killed her in an attack when she rebuked him - soon after arriving in the room - that makes sense. She was dead for three hours when he went for the coffee.

++ still having some problem posting - I'm copying and backing out with the back button and re-quoting, with paste. I hope this does not result in dups.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 03:47:15 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 03:47:52 PM
Van der Sloot: Confession or strategy?

The Dutchman could get out of jail in three years if it is determined that Flores Stephany killed by violent emotion.

The criminal Mario Amoretti said the possible strategy of the Dutchman. (América TV)
Joran van der Sloot seems to have devised a legal strategy to spend in prison as quickly as possible by the death of Stephany Flores. The Dutchman admitted yesterday the crime, but argues that it had planned to murder the young Peruvian, but the facts were for a violent reaction when he found poking about your background on your personal computer.

If Van der Sloot is accused of murder by violent emotion, the penalty could be less than five years. To benefit from the sincere confession and the early termination, the murderer could get out of prison in three years. However, it would not be easy to prove that the crime occurred in these circumstances, said Mario Amoretti criminal.

"There is a proportionate reason which has killed to check your computer for more than he says it was reviewing the information about his past in other countries. The important thing here is how and how he killed her and if she died with a first strike or defended, "the attorney in the newscast First Edition.

To fail this alibi, Van der Sloot could try to minimize aggravating pair being accused of the crime of manslaughter. The penalty for this offense is between six and 20 years, but prison-accessing benefits, the Dutchman could get out of jail for up to three years, said Amoretti.

However, the criminal said, if it is determined that planned the crime, the sentence would be 15 to 35 years. emerges that Van der Sloot stole the money as Stephany-family says the young woman would receive chain Dutchman imprisonment. It will be essential to this end, the information offered by the casino about how much money won and lost each night of the murder.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/491615/van-der-sloot-confesion-estrategia-legal


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 03:52:51 PM
Aruba definitely gave Joran a heads up...

Bet the farm on that...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:53:34 PM
So this is what we have:

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14.  

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Now that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.


I snipped that -

Queen Beatrix to Caracas or Bogata makes sense - Queen B To Peru is a rare flight. I have met people on Aruba from Peru, but that was like the first time I was there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 03:55:22 PM
A THEORY

Natalee Holloway's remains are suddenly "discovered" in Aruba.

Joran is immediately extradited from Peru to face charges in the Netherlands in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Joran is ultimately deemed guilty by a Dutch judge of disposing a body following the accidental/natural death of Natalee Holloway … a misdemeanor under Dutch law?

Joran is sentenced to eight years in a Dutch/Aruban prison which would grant Aruban/Dutch authorities breathing time in regards to charges concerning Stephany Flores murder in Peru and ... the US Attorney's extortion charges in the States. 

Eight years of detainment in the Netherlands ... imply Aruban/Dutch authorities will have no concern that Joran will grow a conscience and reveal the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... expose ALL those who participated in the cover up which has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing and forced her family onto a neverending roller coaster ride from H---.

Sometime within that eight year period ... "something bad" could happen which implies a deceased Joran van der Sloot will be deemed no longer a liability by Aruban/Dutch authorities.

+++++

THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197:
There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117:
I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 03:56:50 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



And...Steph Watts, who is on Aruba, says that Dave Holloway is on his way to Aruba to meet with
prosecutors, police and his attorney.

That is true - I spoke to TJ earlier and posted that he spoke to Dave - Dave was going to Aruba.

With the server traffic issues - it may have been missed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 03:57:44 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/peru.murder.case.holloway/

Holloway urges prayers for Peru victim's family
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 8, 2010 12:13 p.m. EDT

(CNN) -- The mother of Natalee Holloway on Tuesday urged her supporters to keep "in our hearts and in our prayers" the family of the woman that Joran van der Sloot is now accused of killing.

Beth Holloway made the remark at the opening of a resource center in Washington for the families of missing persons, a center that bears her daughter's name.

Van der Sloot was arrested twice in connection with Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba but was released for lack of evidence. He denied any involvement and has not been charged in the Holloway case, but was arrested last week by authorities in Peru in connection with the killing of 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 08, 2010, 03:57:44 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/08/2010-06-08_natalee_holloways_father_wants_joran_van_der_sloot_to_keep_talking.html
Natalee Holloway's father wants Joran Van der Sloot to keep talking
  June 8, 2010

Keep talking, Joran.

That's the message from Natalee Holloway's father Tuesday.

Now that the Dutch playboy has confessed to murdering 21-year-old Stephany Flores in a Lima, Peru hotel, Dave Holloway thinks it's time for Van der Sloot to tell all about Natalee's disappearance.
"I would like for him to tell everyone what happened," Holloway told ABC's "Good Morning America."

Flores was killed exactly five years to the day that Holloway disappeared as an 18-year-old Alabama high school student on vacation in Aruba.

Van der sloot, 22, was twice arrested and released by Aruban authorities, who said they lacked evidence to keep him locked up. Last week, Van der Sloot was charged in the U.S. with trying to extort $250,000 from the Holloway family in exchange for details about her disappearance.
According to La Republica newspaper in Peru, van der Sloot's confession on Monday revealed he murdered her because she was getting too nosy.

"I went to her and I hit her," he said, according to the newspaper. "She was scared, we argued and she tried to escape. I grabbed her by the neck and hit her."




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:04:26 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

I've been thinking that Joran spent all that time staging a crime scene, too.  We know he went into a rage.  He would have had to have had some time to settle down and come to terms with what happened...take a shower...make a plan, pack his clothes, go get coffee so it would look like he bought for two, etc.  I think he killed her shortly after entering the room and spent the rest of the time figuring out what to do.  His big hiccup was that his passport was in the hotel safe and he couldn't get it without checking out of the room and then housekeeping would have been in the room right away to clean it up.  He had to figure out what to do and so he said:  "Don't bother my girl". 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 04:04:36 PM
I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.

They won't try.
Yesterday our president was on tv and he said that Joran will get the same basic treatment that all Dutch prisoners abroad get.
And tonight a very famous Dutch lawyer was on tv and he said the even the Dutch embassy will give Joran just the basics that everyone there gets; the 30 euros a month for toiletries etc and a list of Peruvian attorneys.
He also said that Joran is of no interest to the Netherlands, they don't even want him here.

Btw, Thursday night SBS will broadcast a "Joran/Stephany special" on tv. Knowing that network, they will just come up with some old (this week's) news and present it as "exclusive images" etc.

thanks Jo-An!

I am anxious to hear if Anita or any other family member plans to go to Peru or is he on his own?  I wonder how she feels knowing she and paulus created and reared a monster?


All I know is that she talked to Joran on the phone and he said that when the cameras are rolling, he gets treated real nice but once the cameras stop rolling it turns into a whole different situation. Well boohoo Joran, welcome to Peru! You're not in Disneyland, man!
I heard that his mom will visit him in the next couple of days.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 04:05:57 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



And...Steph Watts, who is on Aruba, says that Dave Holloway is on his way to Aruba to meet with
prosecutors, police and his attorney.

That is true - I spoke to TJ earlier and posted that he spoke to Dave - Dave was going to Aruba.

With the server traffic issues - it may have been missed.

Rob was this a planned trip or a time to get your ass over there trip???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:06:43 PM
So this is what we have:

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14.  

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Now that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.


I snipped that -

Queen Beatrix to Caracas or Bogata makes sense - Queen B To Peru is a rare flight. I have met people on Aruba from Peru, but that was like the first time I was there.

One report is that the girls went missing on May 8



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 04:09:03 PM
A THEORY

Natalee Holloway's remains are suddenly "discovered" in Aruba.

Joran is immediately extradited from Peru to face charges in the Netherlands in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Joran is ultimately deemed guilty by a Dutch judge of disposing a body following the accidental/natural death of Natalee Holloway … a misdemeanor under Dutch law?

Joran is sentenced to eight years in a Dutch/Aruban prison which would grant Aruban/Dutch authorities breathing time in regards to charges concerning Stephany Flores murder in Peru and ... the US Attorney's extortion charges in the States. 

Eight years of detainment in the Netherlands ... imply Aruban/Dutch authorities will have no concern that Joran will grow a conscience and reveal the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... expose ALL those who participated in the cover up which has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing and forced her family onto a neverending roller coaster ride from H---.

Sometime within that eight year period ... "something bad" could happen which implies a deceased Joran van der Sloot will be deemed no longer a liability by Aruban/Dutch authorities.

+++++

THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197:
There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117:
I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.


Or...Once in Dutch/Aruban prison for eight years...SF media attention dies down...
Gets time served (Concurrent) while negotiating crime in Peru to manslaughter...

Something tells me that it will not go down like this, though..
However, it is in the back of my mind...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 04:09:20 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



The extortion thing happened on May 10th in Aruba so Joran was still there then.
So maybe he was in Colombia and just traveled back and forth for the extortion meet up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 04:10:39 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

Yup.

And that would also prove that Mommy and Renfro helped with the guise of him still being there, after he had already left.  Remember their FB posts to him of "good luck, happy life, blah blah blah blah" were posted on May 14.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Jo-An on June 08, 2010, 04:10:50 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



The extortion thing happened on May 10th in Aruba so Joran was still there then.
So Or maybe he was in Colombia and just traveled back and forth for the extortion meet up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 04:10:58 PM
I don't think it's gonna matter one bit what Bert De Rooij says - the Peruvians have the confession(s) on tape - just like the dutch specialists did. The difference is / was - the dutch burned that footage - the Peruvians won't.

I still think / know - the dutch will try everything to mobe him to Holland... probably won't work, but they will try and try and try and try and try.

There is something about Joran not having his Van Cromvoirt 700 thread count sheets and goose down pillers that really pisses off the dutch. He needs his mochachino when he wakes up, and a supply of cigarettes... and this makes the dutch conclude that someone's human rights have been whizzed all over.

They won't try.
Yesterday our president was on tv and he said that Joran will get the same basic treatment that all Dutch prisoners abroad get.
And tonight a very famous Dutch lawyer was on tv and he said the even the Dutch embassy will give Joran just the basics that everyone there gets; the 30 euros a month for toiletries etc and a list of Peruvian attorneys.
He also said that Joran is of no interest to the Netherlands, they don't even want him here.

Btw, Thursday night SBS will broadcast a "Joran/Stephany special" on tv. Knowing that network, they will just come up with some old (this week's) news and present it as "exclusive images" etc.

thanks Jo-An!

I am anxious to hear if Anita or any other family member plans to go to Peru or is he on his own?  I wonder how she feels knowing she and paulus created and reared a monster?


All I know is that she talked to Joran on the phone and he said that when the cameras are rolling, he gets treated real nice but once the cameras stop rolling it turns into a whole different situation. Well boohoo Joran, welcome to Peru! You're not in Disneyland, man!
I heard that his mom will visit him in the next couple of days.


thanks Jo-An......he'd better wake up to the fact that things are gonna get a whole lot worse....and soon!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 04:11:18 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 04:12:51 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 
I would tend to believe Rob's theory above.  Not very far fecthed at all...


 Going to try and say this polite.. I havnt got to watch TV much or anything due to being so busy.. have my grandaughter here now who is napping .. so I jumped on to read.
  I didnt know about Steph having her monthly curse.. <thats what I call it>.. anyhow.. ROB.. you posted she got that AFTER sex.. I know a condowm was used or whatever you wrote.... but.. OK.. we knew the poor gal is a lesbian.. perhaps this was the first time she had sex.. in THIS CASE I am SURE RAPE.. and her.. well.. what you guys say from what I can recall when I was young.. he popped her cherry?  I apologize for saying this but do not recall the correct term for that.  :(    I'm sure she was raped by the demon ass.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 04:17:16 PM
From Greta Wire -- June 8, 2010

Following up on the tip I reported her last week that John Q. Kelly was in Aruba twice in May, sources have now confirmed to me that it was John Q. Kelly, the Holloway family attorney who set up the sting operation on May 10.

Here is how it unfolded:

Sources confirm that the plan started in early April.  Kelly was engaged in email traffic back and forth with Joran van der Sloot for some time prior to Easter Sunday.  Kelly traveled to Aruba on or about Easter, met with van der Sloot and began to set the stage.  Kelly was seeking information as to what happened to Natalee Holloway and was seeking that information for his clients, the parents of Natalee Holloway.  For reasons unclear, Kelly did not get the information on Easter Sunday but returned to the United States and made contact with the FBI.

Kelly, with the FBI, and with the assistance of Aruban law enforcement, set up the sting operation for May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

The plan was to tape van der Sloot extorting money from Beth Holloway via her lawyer.  Van der Sloot was given $10,000 cash (he counted it twice on tape) which is the extortion count and was wired $15,000 (wire fraud count.)  The FBI has all the bank information for the bank transfer.  The method of money transfer - cash and wire - was deliberate part of the plan in order to set up these two crimes.

Once the crime was committed on tape - it was -  the FBI planned to make arrangements to arrest van der Sloot.  The FBI arrest obviously did not happen.  Kelly spent several hours being taped with van der Sloot.  The FBI has the entire tape.  The Aruban authorities do not have the tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the FBI was warned that van der Sloot was leaving the country but that the FBI did not move.

At no time after he left the country, per my sources, was Kelly told by the FBI that the FBI had "lost" van der Sloot.  Instead, Kelly was - it apears - mislead by the FBI into thinking an arrest was imminent.

After the murder in Peru, the US Attorney in Alabama unsealed an Amended Criminal Complaint charging van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud (per the original plan.)  What is not known is what was Amended or when the original Criminal Complaint was filed (it was apparently under seal.) Both these pieces of information could be helpful in  better understanding what happened.

What is still not fully explained - is why the FBI did not act.  It appears the crime was "delivered" to them on May 10 and in the best possible manner: on tape.

More to come.

Anything is possible, though...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cajun miracle on June 08, 2010, 04:17:18 PM
Well, well, well! Thi s is all shocking news and now all we need is for Natalee to be found. His confession is real but the facts are NOT. Can't wait to hear what their prosecutor has to say about the forensics.

Smoking my cigars for Wreck since yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!

BRING Natalee home!! Justice IS coming!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 04:18:16 PM
A THEORY

Natalee Holloway's remains are suddenly "discovered" in Aruba.

Joran is immediately extradited from Peru to face charges in the Netherlands in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Joran is ultimately deemed guilty by a Dutch judge of disposing a body following the accidental/natural death of Natalee Holloway … a misdemeanor under Dutch law?

Joran is sentenced to eight years in a Dutch/Aruban prison which would grant Aruban/Dutch authorities breathing time in regards to charges concerning Stephany Flores murder in Peru and ... the US Attorney's extortion charges in the States. 

Eight years of detainment in the Netherlands ... imply Aruban/Dutch authorities will have no concern that Joran will grow a conscience and reveal the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... expose ALL those who participated in the cover up which has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing and forced her family onto a neverending roller coaster ride from H---.

Sometime within that eight year period ... "something bad" could happen which implies a deceased Joran van der Sloot will be deemed no longer a liability by Aruban/Dutch authorities.

+++++

THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197:
There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117:
I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.



(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/Hinkey.gif)


June 7, 2010 1:04 PM
New Search for Natalee Holloway's Body as Joran van der Sloot Questioned in Peru Murder
?

Van der Sloot has long been considered the prime suspect in Holloway's death, and now, says Jossy Mansur, editor of the Diario Newspaper in Aruba, police are preparing to launch two new searches on the island in the hopes of locating Holloway's remains.

Mansur told CBS affiliate WIAT that the search will occur "by the bird sanctuary near the hotel" and also at Monserat dam on the island.

Mansur said that Aruban authorities "believe they must have missed something, some kind of evidence" related to Holloway's disappearance.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20006938-504083.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 04:21:13 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

Joran killed her, that part of his confession is true.  The false part of his confession is the reason why. 

I'm going with my original thought - killed her in an attack when she rebuked him - soon after arriving in the room - that makes sense. She was dead for three hours when he went for the coffee.

++ still having some problem posting - I'm copying and backing out with the back button and re-quoting, with paste. I hope this does not result in dups.

I agree with your original thought, Rob. She was dead long before he went to buy coffee.
I keep getting kicked, switching from Safari to Firefox and bookmarks to get in.
I hope his computer files have all the info needed to find Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 04:22:54 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

I've been thinking that Joran spent all that time staging a crime scene, too.  We know he went into a rage.  He would have had to have had some time to settle down and come to terms with what happened...take a shower...make a plan, pack his clothes, go get coffee so it would look like he bought for two, etc.  I think he killed her shortly after entering the room and spent the rest of the time figuring out what to do.  His big hiccup was that his passport was in the hotel safe and he couldn't get it without checking out of the room and then housekeeping would have been in the room right away to clean it up.  He had to figure out what to do and so he said:  "Don't bother my girl". 



yep, the "don't bother my girl" coupled with the do not disturb sign says alot. After-all, he KNEW she was dead. You're right - the passport was the problem and he didn't know how long it would be until she was discovered - so he couldn't take her car far - there would be a BOLO - he was screwed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: A's Fever on June 08, 2010, 04:23:06 PM
OMG - Can this all be true?? I just popped in for a minute and then back to work.

Do you think Natalee has been found?  Some kind of a deal to get Joran out of Peru?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 04:24:32 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



The extortion thing happened on May 10th in Aruba so Joran was still there then.
So maybe he was in Colombia and just traveled back and forth for the extortion meet up.

He could been in Colombia and returned to Aruba for the day for all we know.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
Rob was this a planned trip or a time to get your ass over there trip???

I don't know - we were disconnected. He will be on JVM tonite and another show too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 04:34:22 PM
Angie, Stephany was not raped according to reports - atleast the ones I have seen.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 04:36:29 PM
prolific2 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:11 pm       

Brought over from the DDDR...


Times:

Lawyer: Joran possible false confession
From our reporter Menno van Dongen on June 8 '10, 5:33 p.m., updated June 8 '10, 18:31
Joran van der Sloot at the press conference of the Peruvian police last Saturday. (AP)

AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have a false confession. According to lawyer Bert de Rooij has his client shortly before he allegedly admitted that he has slain Stephany Flores, called his mother. In that telephone conversation Van der Sloot would have complained that detectives put him under great pressure.


• "Joran van der Sloot admits manslaughter '
"Joran told his mother in tears Monday that he was interrogated fairly barbaric conditions. The police were under him for forcing a confession. His mother was very concerned about, she told me Monday night. Meanwhile I heard through the media that Joran few hours after the conversation with his mother allegedly admitted that he has been killed Flores. Therefore I wonder whether that confession may be false, "says De Rooij. According to international media, Van der Sloot Flores announced his last Sunday in a fit of rage has slain in the Peruvian capital Lima. He would have caught her when she looked into his laptop and discovered that he played a role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. Van der Sloot, the police have told Flores that he has beaten, after which she broke her neck.


That's one of the reasons it's important that it was videotaped...deja-vu again...didn't he say the same thing about being questioned in Aruba? That's where all of the "they were so hard on Joran" came from?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 08, 2010, 04:37:42 PM
Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 04:37:42 PM
Angie, Stephany was not raped according to reports - atleast the ones I have seen.


 OK.. thanks for the clarification


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 04:43:58 PM
A THEORY

Natalee Holloway's remains are suddenly "discovered" in Aruba.

Joran is immediately extradited from Peru to face charges in the Netherlands in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Joran is ultimately deemed guilty by a Dutch judge of disposing a body following the accidental/natural death of Natalee Holloway … a misdemeanor under Dutch law?

Joran is sentenced to eight years in a Dutch/Aruban prison which would grant Aruban/Dutch authorities breathing time in regards to charges concerning Stephany Flores murder in Peru and ... the US Attorney's extortion charges in the States. 

Eight years of detainment in the Netherlands ... imply Aruban/Dutch authorities will have no concern that Joran will grow a conscience and reveal the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... expose ALL those who participated in the cover up which has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing and forced her family onto a neverending roller coaster ride from H---.

Sometime within that eight year period ... "something bad" could happen which implies a deceased Joran van der Sloot will be deemed no longer a liability by Aruban/Dutch authorities.

+++++

THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197:
There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117:
I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.



(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/Hinkey.gif)


June 7, 2010 1:04 PM
New Search for Natalee Holloway's Body as Joran van der Sloot Questioned in Peru Murder
?

Van der Sloot has long been considered the prime suspect in Holloway's death, and now, says Jossy Mansur, editor of the Diario Newspaper in Aruba, police are preparing to launch two new searches on the island in the hopes of locating Holloway's remains.

Mansur told CBS affiliate WIAT that the search will occur "by the bird sanctuary near the hotel" and also at Monserat dam on the island.

Mansur said that Aruban authorities "believe they must have missed something, some kind of evidence" related to Holloway's disappearance.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20006938-504083.html

thanks Janet for both posts.....I missed the first one.....and at this point I beleive ANYTHING is possible.

Jossy saying the aruban authorities believe they must have missed something tells me....they KNOW what, where, when and who...now GIVE US NATALEE


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 04:44:15 PM
prolific2 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:11 pm       

Brought over from the DDDR...


Times:

Lawyer: Joran possible false confession
From our reporter Menno van Dongen on June 8 '10, 5:33 p.m., updated June 8 '10, 18:31
Joran van der Sloot at the press conference of the Peruvian police last Saturday. (AP)

AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have a false confession. According to lawyer Bert de Rooij has his client shortly before he allegedly admitted that he has slain Stephany Flores, called his mother. In that telephone conversation Van der Sloot would have complained that detectives put him under great pressure.


• "Joran van der Sloot admits manslaughter '
"Joran told his mother in tears Monday that he was interrogated fairly barbaric conditions. The police were under him for forcing a confession. His mother was very concerned about, she told me Monday night. Meanwhile I heard through the media that Joran few hours after the conversation with his mother allegedly admitted that he has been killed Flores. Therefore I wonder whether that confession may be false, "says De Rooij. According to international media, Van der Sloot Flores announced his last Sunday in a fit of rage has slain in the Peruvian capital Lima. He would have caught her when she looked into his laptop and discovered that he played a role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. Van der Sloot, the police have told Flores that he has beaten, after which she broke her neck.


That's one of the reasons it's important that it was videotaped...deja-vu again...didn't he say the same thing about being questioned in Aruba? That's where all of the "they were so hard on Joran" came from?

Joran's like a broken record!

That means we can anticipate his moves with confidence.






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 04:45:05 PM
Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.


 If I were Anita.. and THANK GOD.. I am not.. I'd be damned if I would go visit that punk~ass,, OTHER then to tell him to go to hell.. you made your bed all these years NOW lie in it.. disown him and leave. 
<you still wear that tiara?..lol>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 04:45:53 PM
javascript:void(0);(http://www.foksuk.nl/content/formfield_files/formcartoon_7002_bb69f45a8037446a9dd4acb7c329bd97f54eb70a.gif)


- Joran confessed
- So we are still looking for the real killer


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 04:46:04 PM
Rob was this a planned trip or a time to get your ass over there trip???

I don't know - we were disconnected. He will be on JVM tonite and another show too.

thanks Rob....I am not going to speculate...I am going to wait...hell we've wait 5 years....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 04:46:27 PM
Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment. ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 08, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
So this is what we have:

Yesterday Joran confessed to killing Stephany in a fit of rage because she saw stuff about Natalee on his laptop (the reason is BS)

Today we are hearing that he may be recanting that confession

Today work filtered out from Aruba that Natalee's body may have been fourn

Now that Aruba is saying that is NOT true

Today, there is a report of 2 girls missing in Colombia that were there at the same time and casino Joran was.  They are saying May 6-14. 

Question:  We thought he left Aruba on May 13th but could he have left Aruba sooner?  Not that I think about it reports were he left Colombia on May 13th.



The extortion thing happened on May 10th in Aruba so Joran was still there then.
So maybe he was in Colombia and just traveled back and forth for the extortion meet up.

He could been in Colombia and returned to Aruba for the day for all we know.


I agree..he was getting $10,000.  Well worth a trip back to Aruba for the day.

I also agree he drugged Stephany, took her to the hotel room for sex and to rob her.  He found out he had made a very big mistake because she was gay.   Flew into a rage and killed her.  I think he made up the whole laptop story , because LE was so interested in the laptop.


I don't think he will be extradited to Aruba or the Netherlands.  I think the Dutch have turned their back on him this time and know that Peru LE will get the truth about Natalee out of him if it kills him.  I think they have some very creative ways to get at the truth.

 Aruba is acting fast to cover their tracks.  I also don't think that it was a mistake or coincidence this murder took place on the 5th anniversary of Natalee's kidnapping.  I think he is thumbing his nose at everyone..he is too stupid to know that Peru will not settle for his lies..that Mr Flores wants the truth..and the truth he will have for both Natalee and his daughter Stephany.   

Sporter picked the wrong young lady and the wrong country this time.   I am thinking they will find other info on this computer about women in other areas he has raped, assaulted and murdered.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 08, 2010, 04:48:24 PM
http://peru21.pe/noticia/491784/suspenden-rec...

They suspended the re-enactment because of too many reporters

Also, Anita arrived

He could spend up to 35 years in prison if he planned her murder

But if he is accused of killing her via a violent reaction, he could get less than 5 years. "Pero si es acusado de homicidio por reacción violenta, la pena podría ser menor a cinco años."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 04:48:49 PM
Colombia is really close to Aruba.  Wouldn't take real long to fly there.  I was checking the flights in and out of Aruba.  Check out the name of the aircraft, LOLOL.  Very apropos  (insert laughing emoticon)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/AirlinesBogota.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 04:49:06 PM
It seems Mommy has arrived. Has anyone seen anything about this yet?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 04:49:11 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

Klaas

I have a feeling that the Dutch delegation that arrived in Chili lickity split following Joran's detainment was all about damage control ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal that he had been forewarned about being extradited to the States to face an extortion charge prior to leaving the Netherlands ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal the truth encompassing the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 04:49:37 PM
javascript:void(0);(http://www.foksuk.nl/content/formfield_files/formcartoon_7002_bb69f45a8037446a9dd4acb7c329bd97f54eb70a.gif)


- Joran confessed
- So we are still looking for the real killer

Mis...I just choked on my pretzel.............the little tallywackers hanging beneath the jackets got me!  ROTFLMAO!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 04:50:46 PM
Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment. ;)

And Sebastian free to run amuck on suicide-vacation island.

(Sebastian a.k.a. Poppin' Fresh, lol.  Magnolia that still cracks me up!)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 04:51:38 PM
javascript:void(0);(http://www.foksuk.nl/content/formfield_files/formcartoon_7002_bb69f45a8037446a9dd4acb7c329bd97f54eb70a.gif)


- Joran confessed
- So we are still looking for the real killer

Mis...I just choked on my pretzel.............the little tallywackers hanging beneath the jackets got me!  ROTFLMAO!!
Thanks. I stole it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 04:52:01 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the

That would make it May 13th


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 04:52:37 PM
From Greta Wire -- June 8, 2010

Following up on the tip I reported her last week that John Q. Kelly was in Aruba twice in May, sources have now confirmed to me that it was John Q. Kelly, the Holloway family attorney who set up the sting operation on May 10.

Here is how it unfolded:

Sources confirm that the plan started in early April.  Kelly was engaged in email traffic back and forth with Joran van der Sloot for some time prior to Easter Sunday.  Kelly traveled to Aruba on or about Easter, met with van der Sloot and began to set the stage.  Kelly was seeking information as to what happened to Natalee Holloway and was seeking that information for his clients, the parents of Natalee Holloway.  For reasons unclear, Kelly did not get the information on Easter Sunday but returned to the United States and made contact with the FBI.

Kelly, with the FBI, and with the assistance of Aruban law enforcement, set up the sting operation for May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

The plan was to tape van der Sloot extorting money from Beth Holloway via her lawyer.  Van der Sloot was given $10,000 cash (he counted it twice on tape) which is the extortion count and was wired $15,000 (wire fraud count.)  The FBI has all the bank information for the bank transfer.  The method of money transfer - cash and wire - was deliberate part of the plan in order to set up these two crimes.

Once the crime was committed on tape - it was -  the FBI planned to make arrangements to arrest van der Sloot.  The FBI arrest obviously did not happen.  Kelly spent several hours being taped with van der Sloot.  The FBI has the entire tape.  The Aruban authorities do not have the tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the FBI was warned that van der Sloot was leaving the country but that the FBI did not move.

At no time after he left the country, per my sources, was Kelly told by the FBI that the FBI had "lost" van der Sloot.  Instead, Kelly was - it apears - mislead by the FBI into thinking an arrest was imminent.

After the murder in Peru, the US Attorney in Alabama unsealed an Amended Criminal Complaint charging van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud (per the original plan.)  What is not known is what was Amended or when the original Criminal Complaint was filed (it was apparently under seal.) Both these pieces of information could be helpful in  better understanding what happened.

What is still not fully explained - is why the FBI did not act.  It appears the crime was "delivered" to them on May 10 and in the best possible manner: on tape.

More to come.

Anything is possible, though...

Ok Greta!  Aruba KNEW he committed a crime...why the hell didn't they detain him???  We KNOW the FBI has no authority in aruba......why didn't they detain him until the FBI got the paperwork to them....  She has a real hard on for the FBI right now.  Sure hopes she needs their help someday!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 04:54:34 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

I've been thinking that Joran spent all that time staging a crime scene, too.  We know he went into a rage.  He would have had to have had some time to settle down and come to terms with what happened...take a shower...make a plan, pack his clothes, go get coffee so it would look like he bought for two, etc.  I think he killed her shortly after entering the room and spent the rest of the time figuring out what to do.  His big hiccup was that his passport was in the hotel safe and he couldn't get it without checking out of the room and then housekeeping would have been in the room right away to clean it up.  He had to figure out what to do and so he said:  "Don't bother my girl". 



yep, the "don't bother my girl" coupled with the do not disturb sign says alot. After-all, he KNEW she was dead. You're right - the passport was the problem and he didn't know how long it would be until she was discovered - so he couldn't take her car far - there would be a BOLO - he was screwed.

Rob....there was no DO NOT DISTURB sign on the door in the videos...just sayin.... that was false.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kimmy53 on June 08, 2010, 04:55:26 PM
JOran thinks he is so smart - so he tries what worked for him before.  Well, this time, there are forensics, video tapes and a body AND daddy and uncle V. is not in charge. He's going down - no matter what he confesses to or tries to recant.  I think the Peruvians are out for blood.  They will not play games


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 04:55:27 PM
Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment. ;)

 Saw those photos earlier of Val.. My first impression wasn't WTH? It was maybe he was glad his brother is finally put away? Perhaps I am wrong.. I always thought Val  SEEMED like the only normal one out of the Munster family? I saw little doughboys videos on youtube.. those were sick.  After all.. wasnt it said YEARS ago .. Joran had to stay in their Granny Flat or whatever it was called cause he cause the boys grief and kicked them? Maybe I am having a brain fart??  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 08, 2010, 04:56:06 PM
apparently JVDS is a martial artist of great skill. In the peruvian newspaper the wrote that the broken neck was the result of a "karate chop" to the neck.

There is a discussion here:

http://www.karateforums.com/going-for-the-neck-break-vt33563.html

 that discusses the possibility of breaking someones neck with a karate chop

"...As far as breaking someone's neck with a karate chop, its not going to happen, certainly not the way you're envisioning it anyways.

The only circumstance in which I know of a broken neck in a fight was when Frank Shamrock fought Igor Zinoviev and slammed him to the ground. Neck breaking techniques are perfectly legal in mixed martial arts and plenty of people have taken shots to the neck in these tournaments. I would blame the whole "broken neck theory" on many 80's ninja and chuck norris movies....."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 04:56:15 PM
http://www.farecompare.com/flights/Aruba-AUA/Bogota-BOG/market.html

Frequently Asked Questions about flights from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)

    *
      What's the flight distance from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      The shortest nonstop flight from AUA to BOG is 608 miles on Avianca.
    *
      What is the shortest connecting flight distance from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      The shortest connecting flight from AUA to BOG is 4,729 miles on United.
    *
      How long is the flight from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      The shortest nonstop flight time is 1 hours, 55 minutes on Avianca.
    *
      How long is the shortest connecting flight from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      The shortest connecting flight time is 30 hours, 31 minutes on United.
    *
      Which airlines fly from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      The following airlines fly this route: Bonair Exel, American, Avianca, JetBlue Airways, Continental, Delta, United, US Airways.
    *
      How many daily nonstop flights from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      There are 1 flights on this route.
    *
      Which airlines code share flights from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      The following airlines code share this route: Continental (shares with: United), United (shares with: Continental), US Airways (shares with: United).
    *
      Which airlines operate flights from Aruba to Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      The following airlines operate this route: Avianca (operated by: Medellin), United (operated by: ASA, Sky West, Shuttle, United, Expressjet, Mesa).
    *
      What types of aircraft fly Aruba to Bogota routes (AUA to BOG)?
      The following aircraft fly this route: 100, 32S, 737, 757, 767, ATR, CRJ, EMJ, ERJ.
    *
      Which airports provide service between Aruba and Bogota (AUA to BOG)?
      These airports service Aruba-AUA: Reina Beatrix International(AUA), while the following airports serve Bogota-BOG: Eldorado International(BOG).

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ArubaBogota2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 04:56:38 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

Klaas

I have a feeling that the Dutch delegation that arrived in Chili lickity split following Joran's detainment was all about damage control ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal that he had been forewarned about being extradited to the States to face an extortion charge prior to leaving the Netherlands ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal the truth encompassing the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet


Janet -

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure that there was no delegation arriving in Chile.  They were personnel from the Dutch embassy that were already there. 

I think it is standard operating procedure that they go and do a health check on any of their citizens arrested in that country.  I've never been arrested here or in another country, so I don't know for sure, but I imagine this is standard procedure for most embassies and not just Hollands/The Netherlands.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 04:57:39 PM
http://peru21.pe/noticia/491784/suspenden-rec...

They suspended the re-enactment because of too many reporters

Also, Anita arrived

He could spend up to 35 years in prison if he planned her murder

But if he is accused of killing her via a violent reaction, he could get less than 5 years. "Pero si es acusado de homicidio por reacción violenta, la pena podría ser menor a cinco años."

thanks cece...so she is there!  I want to see pictures...I hope she has a bra on and no see through clothing


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thirdstrike on June 08, 2010, 04:57:54 PM
Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment. ;)

 Saw those photos earlier of Val.. My first impression wasn't WTH? It was maybe he was glad his brother is finally put away? Perhaps I am wrong.. I always thought Val  SEEMED like the only normal one out of the Munster family? I saw little doughboys videos on youtube.. those were sick.  After all.. wasnt it said YEARS ago .. Joran had to stay in their Granny Flat or whatever it was called cause he cause the boys grief and kicked them? Maybe I am having a brain fart??  lol
hey Angie!  It's been a while, eh?  ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 04:59:51 PM
Rebuilding the murder of Stephany Flores was suspended
The large presence of national and foreign press have frustrated police diligence in Miraflores hotel.

Rebuilding the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez (21) at the hands of citizens Dutchman Joran van der Sloot (22), as part of the police investigation was suspended this afternoon due to the large presence of national and foreign press, reported Channel N.

According to this method, dozens of journalists waiting for the departure of Van der Sloot on the exterior of the Criminal Investigation Department (Dirincri) of the police in downtown Lima. The same thing happened Tac hotel in Miraflores, where the crime occurred, on Sunday 30.

It was learned further that the murderer's mother, Anita van der Sloot, have arrived in Peru to support her son, who yesterday confessed his crime and could face up to 35 years in prison if it is determined that planned the death of the young. But if you are charged with manslaughter for backlash, the penalty could be less than five years.

According to sources from the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE) elcomercio.pe cited by Van der Sloot will be held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison in San Juan de Lurigancho, when the police inquiries concluded the research process.

http://www.generaccion.com/noticia/63859/recontruccion-asesinato-stephany-flores-se-suspendio


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:00:19 PM
Colombia is really close to Aruba.  Wouldn't take real long to fly there.  I was checking the flights in and out of Aruba.  Check out the name of the aircraft, LOLOL.  Very apropos  (insert laughing emoticon)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/AirlinesBogota.jpg)

thanks Klaas,  knew it was close.  remember checking it out when someone was suggesting Nat was in Columbia.....LOL   FOKKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 05:01:24 PM
Hey, has there been any word regarding whether or not that murderer's mother has gotten over there to see him since he confessed, y'all know, to ask him why he lied to mama?

By the way, whatever reason he gave for murdering Stephany is a lie; everybody knows how he lies; however, his "reasons" matter not--it's the confession that counts.

Sounds like she may be on her way.  Guess she has left Valentijn in charge of nightlife and entertainment. ;)

 Saw those photos earlier of Val.. My first impression wasn't WTH? It was maybe he was glad his brother is finally put away? Perhaps I am wrong.. I always thought Val  SEEMED like the only normal one out of the Munster family? I saw little doughboys videos on youtube.. those were sick.  After all.. wasnt it said YEARS ago .. Joran had to stay in their Granny Flat or whatever it was called cause he cause the boys grief and kicked them? Maybe I am having a brain fart??  lol
hey Angie!  It's been a while, eh?  ;)

 He dude! Wazz up !  :)  Nice to see you and others from WAY back and new folks as well ! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:02:26 PM
I know it's too early to draw any conclusions, and this IS Joran after-all... but some of this stuff doesn't fit.

Stephany was in the room for three hours... what was she doing in there - for three hours??? (if Joran's story is even remotely plausible)

Supposedly, according to her friend, she was a lesbian, struggling with her sexuality. And seems she had her period. I know nothing is out of the realm of possibility, including they had sex (with a condom - no sperm in autopsy report) and then she got her period after sex.

Hard to imagine that she was beating so badly that some of her clothes flew off - as described as being in red panties.

So, Joran may have been staging a crime scene - or - his confession / story / tales - is not all completely spelled out to us.

I've been thinking that Joran spent all that time staging a crime scene, too.  We know he went into a rage.  He would have had to have had some time to settle down and come to terms with what happened...take a shower...make a plan, pack his clothes, go get coffee so it would look like he bought for two, etc.  I think he killed her shortly after entering the room and spent the rest of the time figuring out what to do.  His big hiccup was that his passport was in the hotel safe and he couldn't get it without checking out of the room and then housekeeping would have been in the room right away to clean it up.  He had to figure out what to do and so he said:  "Don't bother my girl". 



yep, the "don't bother my girl" coupled with the do not disturb sign says alot. After-all, he KNEW she was dead. You're right - the passport was the problem and he didn't know how long it would be until she was discovered - so he couldn't take her car far - there would be a BOLO - he was screwed.

Rob....there was no DO NOT DISTURB sign on the door in the videos...just sayin.... that was false.

thanks Nut, I didn't remember seeing any either....but my memory ain't what it used to be <wink>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 05:03:01 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

Klaas

I have a feeling that the Dutch delegation that arrived in Chili lickity split following Joran's detainment was all about damage control ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal that he had been forewarned about being extradited to the States to face an extortion charge prior to leaving the Netherlands ... all about assurance that Joran would not reveal the truth encompassing the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet


I believe it will all be damage control - there are a lot of people who need to cover their *sses on this one. I am not sure they could be charged with anything because no one has jurisdiction over the Aruba officials there. Maybe the people of Aruba will finally rise up against the corruption, but I don't have much hope on that either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:04:00 PM
apparently JVDS is a martial artist of great skill. In the peruvian newspaper the wrote that the broken neck was the result of a "karate chop" to the neck.

There is a discussion here:

http://www.karateforums.com/going-for-the-neck-break-vt33563.html

 that discusses the possibility of breaking someones neck with a karate chop

"...As far as breaking someone's neck with a karate chop, its not going to happen, certainly not the way you're envisioning it anyways.

The only circumstance in which I know of a broken neck in a fight was when Frank Shamrock fought Igor Zinoviev and slammed him to the ground. Neck breaking techniques are perfectly legal in mixed martial arts and plenty of people have taken shots to the neck in these tournaments. I would blame the whole "broken neck theory" on many 80's ninja and chuck norris movies....."

thanks JE......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 05:04:58 PM
http://peru21.pe/noticia/491784/suspenden-rec...

They suspended the re-enactment because of too many reporters

Also, Anita arrived

He could spend up to 35 years in prison if he planned her murder

But if he is accused of killing her via a violent reaction, he could get less than 5 years. "Pero si es acusado de homicidio por reacción violenta, la pena podría ser menor a cinco años."

thanks cece...so she is there!  I want to see pictures...I hope she has a bra on and no see through clothing

I kinda want to know why the hell he was allowed to talk to Mommy on the phone?  And will he really be able to have a visit with her?  Why??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 08, 2010, 05:05:21 PM
I too, did not see Joran hang a do not disturb sign on the door,  he just came out and closed it. 


R U KIDDING?  He could actually end up with only 5 years for this murder if it wasn't premeditated?????????  Thats just wrong!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 05:07:33 PM
Colombia missing women linked to Joran
Tuesday, June 8, 2010 4:41 p.m.

Two young women in the Colombian capital Bogota disappeared when murder suspect Joran van der Sloot was also present there. The two would like Joran, often in exclusive casinos have been.

Writes that the Peruvian newspaper El Comercio. The newspaper noticed the disappearance of the two girls together with Van der Sloot residence in Bogota.

This morning the CNN reported that Joran (22) has announced the Peruvian Stephany Flores Ramirez to the murder.

Under pressure
Bert de Rooij, the Dutch lawyer of Joran van der Sloot, thinks that the murder suspect possibly a false confession under threat has passed.

De Rooij tells RTL News that Van der Sloot confession shortly before he traveled with his mother called. Against it he would have said that he was afraid of barbaric interrogation methods.
Fax
De Rooij has contacted the Dutch embassy in Peru. Fax asking whether the Embassy wants to ensure that Van der Sloot is heard in a humane manner.

According to Van der Sloot's Dutch lawyer, he's confession of Joran has not been confirmed by Peruvian authorities. De Rooij van der Sloot does not represent Peru because he does not speak the language and legal system does not know. Now he stands accused of the murder.

Murder
Van der Sloot would have known that he Stephany in a fit of anger to the murder, after posting in his laptop would have looked. This would make it behind the dark past of Joran came and his involvement in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway.

According to criminal law specialist Mario Amoretti, he and his confession out of remission.

http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Nederland/267700/Vermiste-vrouwen-Colombia-gelinkt-aan-Joran.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on June 08, 2010, 05:09:50 PM
http://www.wesh.com/news/23826079/detail.html
(video)
Holloway's Dad Hopes This Is 'Last Victim'

Joran Van Der Sloot Confesses To Killing Peruvian Woman, Police Say
June 8, 2010

LIMA, Peru --
Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of a U.S. teen in Aruba, has confessed to killing a young Peruvian woman in his Lima hotel room, a police spokesman said.

Peru's chief police spokesman, Col. Abel Gamarra, told The Associated Press that Van der Sloot admitted under questioning Monday that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores on May 30.

Several Peruvian media reported that Van der Sloot killed Flores in a rage after learning she had looked up information about his past on his laptop without his permission. They did not name their sources for the information.

The newspaper La Republica said that he tearfully confessed, in the presence of a prosecutor and a state-appointed attorney, to grabbing Flores by the neck and hitting her because she had viewed photos and videos about the Aruba case on his computer while he was out buying coffee.

Gamarra would not provide details of the confession. Nor would the chief of Peru's criminal police, Gen. Cesar Guardia, when the AP reached him by telephone. Guardia said only police director Gen. Miguel Hidalgo could authorize the information to be divulged. Hidalgo's cell phone rang unanswered.

Asked about the Van der Sloot confession, a brother of the victim, Enrique Flores, told the AP "we are not going to make any comment. This is in the hands of the police, of the justice system."

Van der Sloot's confession came on his third full day in Peruvian police custody, on the eve of a planned trip to the hotel in which he was to participate in a reconstruction of the events leading to Flores' slaying, Gamarra said.

Flores, a business student, was found beaten to death, her neck broken, in the 22-year-old Dutchman's hotel room. Police said the two met playing poker at a casino.

Video from hotel security cameras shows the two entering Van der Sloot's hotel room together at 5 a.m. Saturday and Van der Sloot leaving alone four hours later with his bags. Police say Van der Sloot also left the hotel briefly at 8:10 a.m. and returned with two cups of coffee and bread purchased across the street at a supermarket.

Gamarra said the case would now be turned over to prosecutors to present formal charges and Van der Sloot will be assigned to a prison while he awaits trial. Murder convictions carry a maximum of 35 years in prison in Peru and it was not immediately clear if a confession could lead to a reduced sentence.

Van der Sloot remains the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, then 18, on the Caribbean resort island of Aruba while she was celebrating her high school graduation.

He was arrested twice in the case -- and gave a number of conflicting confessions, some in TV interviews -- but was freed for lack of evidence.

Holloway's father told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Tuesday that Van der Sloot should tell all he knows about the disappearance of his daughter.

"He confessed to this one ... I would like for him to tell everyone what happened" in the earlier case, Dave Holloway said. "Hopefully this is his last victim."

A fixture on true crime shows and in tabloids after Holloway's disappearance, he gained a reputation for lying -- even admitting a penchant for it -- and also exhibited a volatile temper. In one Dutch television interview he threw a glass of wine in a reporter's eyes. In another, he smashed a glass of water against a wall in a fury.

The 6-foot-3 (191-centimeter) -tall Van der Sloot had been held at Peruvian criminal police headquarters since arriving Saturday in a police convoy from Chile, where he was captured on Thursday.

He had crossed into Chile on Monday, nearly a day after leaving the Lima hotel -- five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance.

Lima's deputy medical investigator, Victor Tejada, told the AP that Flores was killed by blows with a blunt object, probably the tennis racket found in the hotel room.

Guardia told the AP her body was found face down and clothed with no indication of sexual assault.

In video taken of the Dutchman that was broadcast by a TV channel, Peruvian police were seen searching Van der Sloot's belongings in his presence, pulling a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency from his backpack.

Chilean police who questioned Van der Sloot earlier said he declared himself innocent of the Lima slaying but acknowledged knowing Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning and both a Dutch Embassy official and his U.S.-based attorney told the AP on Sunday that he was seeking to hire his own counsel.

The suspect's father, a former judge and attorney on the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba, died in February. Van der Sloot has two brothers.

There were indications Van der Sloot may have been traveling on money gained through extortion.

The day of his arrest in Chile, Van der Sloot was charged in the United States with trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body and describing how she died.

U.S. prosecutors say $15,000 was transferred to a Dutch bank account in his name on May 10. He arrived in Peru four days later, his visit coinciding with the runup to a June 2-5 Latin America Poker Tour tournament with a $930,000 prize pool.

Tournament organizers said Van der Sloot did not sign up to participate in the event.

Van der Sloot is an avid gambler and was known to frequent Aruba's casino hotels, one of which was lodging Natalee Holloway.

In a lengthy 2006 interview with Greta Van Susteren on Fox News, Van der Sloot described drinking shots of rum with Holloway, whom he said he met while playing poker at an Aruba casino, then taking her to a beach and leaving her there around 3:30 a.m.

Two years later, a Dutch television crime reporter captured hidden-camera footage of Van der Sloot saying that after Holloway, drunk, collapsed on the beach while the two were kissing he asked a friend to dump her body in the sea.

"I would never murder a girl," he said.

That interview prompted authorities in Aruba to reopen the case, but Van der Sloot later said he made up the whole story and he was not charged.

The crime reporter, Peter de Vries -- the victim of the wine-throwing incident -- reported later in 2008 that Van der Sloot was recruiting Thai women in Bangkok for sex work in the Netherlands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 08, 2010, 05:13:54 PM
Lifesong,

I agree about the Dutch delegation in Chile...was going to post similar but was gun shy....didn't want to get locked out again.  ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:14:16 PM
Levi Page http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/08/breaking-news-has-natalees-body-been-found/
BREAKING NEWS: Has Natalee’s Body Been Found? Or is it Another False Report/Alarm? | Scared Monkeys
scaredmonkeys.com
According to the Dutch publication AD.NL Natalee Holloway’s body has been found in Aruba. AD.NL is sourcing Aruban authorities.
4 hours ago · Comment · LikeUnlike · Share

On FACEBOOK


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 05:15:25 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the

That would make it May 13th


Blonde,

It does not SEEM possible. However, anything is possible. We all know that...

BUCKSHOT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 05:15:55 PM
OMG - they are already shelling shirts

http://nooitmeerwassen.nl/product_info.php?products_id=141
joran, but you couldn't hide
€29.00
Beschikbare opties:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:16:33 PM
Levi Page http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/08/breaking-news-has-natalees-body-been-found/
BREAKING NEWS: Has Natalee’s Body Been Found? Or is it Another False Report/Alarm? | Scared Monkeys
scaredmonkeys.com
According to the Dutch publication AD.NL Natalee Holloway’s body has been found in Aruba. AD.NL is sourcing Aruban authorities.
4 hours ago · Comment · LikeUnlike · Share

On FACEBOOK

I updated that front page to say it appears to be a false alarm.  At least I didn't go with the title stating it as fact, LOL.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:18:04 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the

That would make it May 13th


Blonde,

It does not SEEM possible. However, anything is possible. We all know that...

BUCKSHOT

Daily flights, to and from Aruba to Bogota Colombia.  Of course it's possible and some of his friends were born in Colombia.  He could go by boat too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 05:18:55 PM
http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/breaking-2-girls-missing-from-columbia-officals-questioning-van-der-sloot/

BREAKING: 2 GIRLS MISSING FROM COLUMBIA-OFFICALS QUESTIONING VAN DER SLOOT
June 8, 2010 – 9:39 am
Posted in Breaking News, Exclusive, Featured, Murdered
Tagged Joran Van Der Sloot
I have just learned  that Joran Van Der Sloot is now the suspect in the disappearance of 2 Colombian women. 2 girls disappeared from a casino in Columbia.

When Joran left Aruba on May 10th, with the  15,000 dollars in extortion money, he flew to Columbia for 2 days prior to Peru. Officials in Columbia are so convinced he is involved in the disappearance of these 2 young woman,  they have boarded a plane to Peru to question Van der Sloot.
Stand by developing


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 08, 2010, 05:19:24 PM
Some jokes i got from a friend :D

Joran van der Sloot was asked 2 participate in the television program "40 days without sex." Joran himself thinks he’s gonna make it, the other 1798 Peruvian prisoners think not.

Carglass is trying 2 keep Joran van der Sloot out of prison in Peru. They are afraid that if he gets in there his ‘star’(= a**) is beyond repair.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 05:19:50 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 08, 2010, 05:20:37 PM
Alleged Confessor Joran Van Der Sloot Re-enactment Delayed
June 8, 2010 - 5:13 PM | by: Phil Keating

The day after Peruvian investigators say Natalee Holloway prime suspect Joran van der Sloot confessed to killing 21 year old Stephany Flores in Peru, police delayed the moment media from 3 continents were awaiting: the 23 year old Dutch man himself being taken back to the scene of the crime to re-enact exactly what happened, and how, the morning of May 30th. That's the day police say van der Sloot killed Flores, left her body on the floor of his Miraflores district hotel room and fled south in a taxi to Chile. That's where he hid out for 3 days until he was captured at a Chilean roadblock last week. Peruvian TV and newspapers report that, due to the large number of reporters and photographers camped outside the Hotel Tac, investigators have decided to wait until they're not there to bring van der Sloot back to show them his version of events.
In a stunning development, after being held since Friday by Peruvian authorities and interrogated about what happened to Flores ever since, late Monday night--police say--van der Sloot broke down, started crying and confessed to grabbing her by the neck and hitting her. The motive? According to police, van der Sloot says he left his hotel room that Sunday morning to get coffee and bread, came back to room 309 and found Flores on his laptop discovering that the guy she met at a Casino the night before was the prime suspect in the disappearance and presumed murder of Natalee Holloway in Aruba 5 years earlier, to the day. Police say that triggered van der Sloot's rage. Investigators have not released any details of exactly how the confession was obtained.

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/08/alleged-confessor-joran-van-der-sloot-re-enactment-delayed/


(LOL!  Seriously, how long do they want to wait until the press are not there?!)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZLady on June 08, 2010, 05:20:57 PM
I was wondering about the frequency of flights from Aruba to Bogata.  How long a flight is that?  It's conceivable that he was in Bogata on the 6th of May, returning to Aruba on the 9th or 10th for his meeting with JQK, and then off again to Bogata immediately.  Does this fit the timeline?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 05:22:57 PM
Involving Dutchman Joran van der Sloot with the disappearance of two Colombian assiduous in casinos Bogotá

Lima (Peru.com) .- The stay of the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in Colombia coincided with the disappearance of two youths, who were frequent visitors to exclusive casinos.
 
As reported, the alien accused of killing the young Peruvian Stephany Flores Ramirez (21) arrived in Bogota on 6 May and visited several amusement arcades.
 
"In those days (the Netherlands) visited amusement arcades in the city of Bogotá, as shown in the video security of premises. We know you were staying in two hotels, so the police started investigations in our country," told reporters Colombia.
 
As recalled, van der Sloot confessed to the Criminal Investigation Department (DIRINCRI) blows that killed Flores Ramirez because he discovered his dark past.

http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100608/101118/Involucran-a-holandes-Joran-van-der-Sloot-con-desaparicion-de-dos-colombianas-asiduas-a-los-casinos-de-Bogota


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:23:04 PM
OMG - they are already shelling shirts

that's sick........they forget a young woman's life was ripped from her


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 05:23:18 PM
apparently JVDS is a martial artist of great skill. In the peruvian newspaper the wrote that the broken neck was the result of a "karate chop" to the neck.

There is a discussion here:

http://www.karateforums.com/going-for-the-neck-break-vt33563.html

 that discusses the possibility of breaking someones neck with a karate chop

"...As far as breaking someone's neck with a karate chop, its not going to happen, certainly not the way you're envisioning it anyways.

The only circumstance in which I know of a broken neck in a fight was when Frank Shamrock fought Igor Zinoviev and slammed him to the ground. Neck breaking techniques are perfectly legal in mixed martial arts and plenty of people have taken shots to the neck in these tournaments. I would blame the whole "broken neck theory" on many 80's ninja and chuck norris movies....."

Having three adult children who are advanced degree black belts in Karate, I can tell you for a skilled karate person, breaking a neck is not out of the realm of an easily done skill.  I have one in MMA with specialty in Krav Mag, one a black belt in Issunynru, (sp?)and one a black belt in Shotokan Karate and it is relatively easy to do if well trained. Anyone well trained is not going to do that unless their life is threatened and even then, they have other techniques to disable an opponent rather than break their neck.

I do not see JVS being the type to do what it takes to become well trained in karate. That takes MANY years of disciplined training to even advance to a black belt and particularly to the higher degrees as a black belt. He is not self disciplined or committed to anything but himself and that does not match with a well trained karate mind set.  I am guessing he hit her with something heavy although with his size it might have been possible to get a fatal lick in on her because he would be coming downward from his height.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:23:32 PM
http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/breaking-2-girls-missing-from-columbia-officals-questioning-van-der-sloot/

BREAKING: 2 GIRLS MISSING FROM COLUMBIA-OFFICALS QUESTIONING VAN DER SLOOT
June 8, 2010 – 9:39 am
Posted in Breaking News, Exclusive, Featured, Murdered
Tagged Joran Van Der Sloot
I have just learned  that Joran Van Der Sloot is now the suspect in the disappearance of 2 Colombian women. 2 girls disappeared from a casino in Columbia.

When Joran left Aruba on May 10th, with the  15,000 dollars in extortion money, he flew to Columbia for 2 days prior to Peru. Officials in Columbia are so convinced he is involved in the disappearance of these 2 young woman,  they have boarded a plane to Peru to question Van der Sloot.
Stand by developing


So May 10-May 12/13


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 05:24:42 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short
"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:25:07 PM
Levi Page http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/08/breaking-news-has-natalees-body-been-found/
BREAKING NEWS: Has Natalee’s Body Been Found? Or is it Another False Report/Alarm? | Scared Monkeys
scaredmonkeys.com
According to the Dutch publication AD.NL Natalee Holloway’s body has been found in Aruba. AD.NL is sourcing Aruban authorities.
4 hours ago · Comment · LikeUnlike · Share

On FACEBOOK

I updated that front page to say it appears to be a false alarm.  At least I didn't go with the title stating it as fact, LOL.

I expect the FP will get blasted later on.  And I wouldnt be surprised if it is not a false alarm............


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 05:25:27 PM
That last article states they have casino surveillance tapes of him being inthe Bogota casinos the days the two girls went missing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:25:57 PM
What if one of those 2 Colombia girls carried a small white leather flower power purse?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 05:29:10 PM
What if one of those 2 Colombia girls carried a small white leather flower power purse?

Good question.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:29:31 PM
I bet Anita is pissed her time with Richard Gere is being ruined (insert shrugging shoulder smiley)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 05:29:45 PM
http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/breaking-2-girls-missing-from-columbia-officals-questioning-van-der-sloot/

BREAKING: 2 GIRLS MISSING FROM COLUMBIA-OFFICALS QUESTIONING VAN DER SLOOT
June 8, 2010 – 9:39 am
Posted in Breaking News, Exclusive, Featured, Murdered
Tagged Joran Van Der Sloot
I have just learned  that Joran Van Der Sloot is now the suspect in the disappearance of 2 Colombian women. 2 girls disappeared from a casino in Columbia.

When Joran left Aruba on May 10th, with the  15,000 dollars in extortion money, he flew to Columbia for 2 days prior to Peru. Officials in Columbia are so convinced he is involved in the disappearance of these 2 young woman,  they have boarded a plane to Peru to question Van der Sloot.
Stand by developing


So May 10-May 12/13

If true, utterly amazing...

As I have said before ( one thouseand times ), nothing would surprise me with this/these cases...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: antunym on June 08, 2010, 05:32:05 PM
I may have missed it but has Taco aka "stuck on stupid" said anything to defend his "boy" since all this confession has come out?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 05:33:30 PM
Art just called because I told him  that Natalee’s Body Been Found earlier .
He said he didn't get any other phone calls today so he doesn't believe it's true but you never know .
Also as far as Joran is concerned who ever has caught him first, gets him first ,unless the Netherlands  makes a deal with peru..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: KYcat on June 08, 2010, 05:34:30 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short


Joran, quit being a whiny, crying, BEOTCH!  You ain't in Aruba NO MORE.  You think the Peruvians interrogation techniques are barbaric????  Your murdering ways are barbaric.  You had no mercy on two defenseless young women... we have NO MERCY on you. 

I hope someone who is BIGGER, BADDER, MORE SADISTIC than you gets ahold of you and shows no mercy.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sea Searcher on June 08, 2010, 05:34:34 PM
prolific2 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:11 pm       

Brought over from the DDDR...


Times:

Lawyer: Joran possible false confession
From our reporter Menno van Dongen on June 8 '10, 5:33 p.m., updated June 8 '10, 18:31
Joran van der Sloot at the press conference of the Peruvian police last Saturday. (AP)

AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have a false confession. According to lawyer Bert de Rooij has his client shortly before he allegedly admitted that he has slain Stephany Flores, called his mother. In that telephone conversation Van der Sloot would have complained that detectives put him under great pressure.


• "Joran van der Sloot admits manslaughter '
"Joran told his mother in tears Monday that he was interrogated fairly barbaric conditions. The police were under him for forcing a confession. His mother was very concerned about, she told me Monday night. Meanwhile I heard through the media that Joran few hours after the conversation with his mother allegedly admitted that he has been killed Flores. Therefore I wonder whether that confession may be false, "says De Rooij. According to international media, Van der Sloot Flores announced his last Sunday in a fit of rage has slain in the Peruvian capital Lima. He would have caught her when she looked into his laptop and discovered that he played a role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. Van der Sloot, the police have told Flores that he has beaten, after which she broke her neck.


That's one of the reasons it's important that it was videotaped...deja-vu again...didn't he say the same thing about being questioned in Aruba? That's where all of the "they were so hard on Joran" came from?

Maybe I'm wrong for saying this but....

Hey, take back the confession..forget the manslaughter and we'll just go with grand theft, aggravated assault,robbery + murder..

Works for me :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 05:34:49 PM
BREAKING NEWS: IT WAS HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY JOHN Q. KELLY WHO SET UP THE MAY 10 STING

Following up on the tip I reported her last week that John Q. Kelly was in Aruba twice in May, sources have now confirmed to me that it was John Q. Kelly, the Holloway family attorney who set up the sting operation on May 10.

Here is how it unfolded:

Sources confirm that the plan started in early April.  Kelly was engaged in email traffic back and forth with Joran van der Sloot for some time prior to Easter Sunday.  Kelly traveled to Aruba on or about Easter, met with van der Sloot and began to set the stage.  Kelly was seeking information as to what happened to Natalee Holloway and was seeking that information for his clients, the parents of Natalee Holloway.  For reasons unclear, Kelly did not get the information on Easter Sunday but returned to the United States and made contact with the FBI.

Kelly, with the FBI, and with the assistance of  Aruban law enforcement, set up the sting operation for May 10.  A hotel room in Aruba and a car were both equipped with videotape equipment so that the crime could be caught on tape.

The plan was to tape van der Sloot extorting money from Beth Holloway via her lawyer.  Van der Sloot was given $10,000 cash (he counted it twice on tape) which is the extortion count and was wired $15,000 (wire fraud count.)  The FBI has all the bank information for the bank transfer.  The method of money transfer - cash and wire - was deliberate part of the plan in order to set up these two crimes.

Once the crime was committed on tape - it was -  the FBI planned to make arrangements to arrest van der Sloot.  The FBI arrest obviously did not happen.  Kelly spent several hours being taped with van der Sloot.  The FBI has the entire tape.  The Aruban authorities do not have the tape.

3 days after Van der Sloot was caught on tape committing the two planned crimes, he boarded a flight from Aruba to Colombia and on to Peru.  The Aruban Attorney General told me that the FBI was warned that van der Sloot was leaving the country but that the FBI did not move.

At no time after he left the country, per my sources, was Kelly told by the FBI that the FBI had "lost" van der Sloot.  Instead, Kelly was - it apears - mislead by the FBI into thinking an arrest was imminent.

After the murder in Peru, the US Attorney in Alabama unsealed an Amended Criminal Complaint charging van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud (per the original plan.)  What is not known is what was Amended or when the original Criminal Complaint was filed (it was apparently under seal.) Both these pieces of information could be helpful in  better understanding what happened.

What is still not fully explained - is why the FBI did not act.  It appears the crime was "delivered" to them on May 10 and in the best possible manner: on tape.

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/breaking-news-it-was-holloway-attorney-john-q-kelly-who-set-up-the-may-10-sting/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 05:34:49 PM
Well I can see now that the DUTCH as a group intend to save there precious sociopath Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ciskebab on June 08, 2010, 05:35:04 PM
I found the translation(of the rumour today that was in Pap )about the tourist who thought they found bones.

Body Holloway

Peruvian media write today that the body of Natalee Holloway is found. In the Netherlands there are several media that have taken over the news. Advocate General in Aruba Taco Stein denies that a body is found. "Nonsense," he says. The news was going to take pictures of an American couple during a dive off his own words, possibly the corpse of Natalee had discovered. In March this year, the OM in Aruba have examined the photos. At that time it was concluded that the "skull and bones" in the photo are, corals. Last Sunday the police received reports of a Canadian tourist couple was convinced that she had found the body of Holloway. They said they had seen bones lying near a water tank in Alto Vista. Agents with the couple went to the appropriate place, but only found garbage and carcasses of animals.

At the bottom of this link. http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_73646.php

Does anyone know if there was a watersearch?? cause if see this they only looked at the photo and concluded it was only coral :S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 05:35:41 PM
I have just learned  that Joran Van Der Sloot is now the suspect in the disappearance of 2 Colombian women. 2 girls disappeared from a casino in Colombia.

When Joran left Aruba on May 10th, with the  15,000 dollars in extortion money, he flew to Columbia for 2 days prior to Peru. Officials in Colombia are so convinced he is involved in the disappearance of these 2 young woman,  they have boarded a plane to Peru to question Van der Sloot.

http://stephww.wordpress.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 05:36:04 PM
I bet Anita is pissed her time with Richard Gere is being ruined (insert shrugging shoulder smiley)

 Sucks to be her!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 05:36:09 PM
http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/breaking-2-girls-missing-from-columbia-officals-questioning-van-der-sloot/

BREAKING: 2 GIRLS MISSING FROM COLUMBIA-OFFICALS QUESTIONING VAN DER SLOOT
June 8, 2010 – 9:39 am
Posted in Breaking News, Exclusive, Featured, Murdered
Tagged Joran Van Der Sloot
I have just learned  that Joran Van Der Sloot is now the suspect in the disappearance of 2 Colombian women. 2 girls disappeared from a casino in Columbia.

When Joran left Aruba on May 10th, with the  15,000 dollars in extortion money, he flew to Columbia for 2 days prior to Peru. Officials in Columbia are so convinced he is involved in the disappearance of these 2 young woman,  they have boarded a plane to Peru to question Van der Sloot.
Stand by developing


Hi AZ-

This is huge, if it can be proven he "disappeared" those girls then the whole Hague with Anita sitting atop it, won't be able to stop this house of cards.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 05:36:20 PM
Art just called because I told him  that Natalee’s Body Been Found earlier .
He said he didn't get any other phone calls today so he doesn't believe it's true but you never know .
Also as far as Joran is concerned who ever has caught him first, gets him first ,unless the Netherlands  makes a deal with peru..


Tx Blonde!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 05:36:56 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: can on June 08, 2010, 05:37:19 PM
Thanks for everything Klaas! 

and thanks to all who bring information here. 

I wonder who has accompanied Anita to Peru?

Joran is following the same pattern he did with Natalee.  He's complaining about the treatment he's receiving under interrogation. 
He'll be bloodying his lips next.
 
For those with concern about Joran receiving a light sentence.  I read
that his confession was not a confession that would render a short sentence because he gave it after he was taken in and after evidence has been found to implicate him. 

From what I read about his "confession" he has shown no remorse.  He has blamed the victim. . . that's what he does.

The Peruvian authorities do not want to be fooled - (as in Joran's past experience in Aruba)
He's done for.

A repeated bludgeoning of a victim, IMO, is not a crime of passion.

May justice avenge Stefany's death and through her, Natalee's.

My heart and prayers to Beth, as she goes about her work in Natalee's name.

Prayer for all the loved ones of Natalee and Stefany. 










Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 05:38:00 PM
What if one of those 2 Colombia girls carried a small white leather flower power purse?

WOW............GMTA................I had the same thought as I was reading that earlier. My thought was what if Stephany found that purse in his room. That could have caused him to "have" to kill her to keep her from telling. I just don't buy the computer story for some reason because of the time it would take to get into a computer and he only went to get coffee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cw618 on June 08, 2010, 05:39:03 PM
Art just called because I told him  that Natalee’s Body Been Found earlier .
He said he didn't get any other phone calls today so he doesn't believe it's true but you never know .
Also as far as Joran is concerned who ever has caught him first, gets him first ,unless the Netherlands  makes a deal with peru..


i was wondering about that, in case it is true that Natalee’s Body Been Found
was thinking an aruba ploy, to muck up justice


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 05:39:26 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short

Joran

The crime you committed against the person of Stephany Flores is the definition of "barbaric".

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 05:40:31 PM
I bet Anita is pissed her time with Richard Gere is being ruined (insert shrugging shoulder smiley)

 Sucks to be her!

Yes, even on a good day! :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 05:40:50 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short

Joran

The crime you committed against the person of Stephany Flores is the definition of "barbaric".

Janet


 Agree Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 05:41:44 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?
I see that hahahahaha
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Anita/ISA_SpiritWeek_2010.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 05:41:58 PM
I bet Anita is pissed her time with Richard Gere is being ruined (insert shrugging shoulder smiley)

 Sucks to be her!

Yes, even on a good day! :)

 )~ Carpe


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 05:42:01 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short

Joran

The crime you committed against the person of Stephany Flores is the definition of "barbaric".

Janet


It's ironic isn't it Janet? Justice and equity only for him, in his and his mother's eyes, right? Such elitists.....

This link has a haunting photo of Beth at the opening of the Natalee Holloway Resource Center today.

http://waok.cbslocal.com/2010/06/08/june-8-2010/mother-of-missing-teen-natalee-holloway-launches-missing-persons-center/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:43:10 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/BethNHRC060810.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: KYcat on June 08, 2010, 05:43:19 PM
Well I can see now that the DUTCH as a group intend to save there precious sociopath Joran.

Yes, they are already backpedaling.  Saying that his confession is false, he made it because of the pressure of the interrogation.  This is Joran's MO.  He confessed in Aruba, then recanted it and has been doing it ever since.  Anywhere else he would have been convicted.  Even though he lies, a thorough investigation with a competent and NON-CORRUPT police force would have nailed him!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 05:43:44 PM
Apologize if this is a repeat.....from Steph Watts blog

http://stephww.wordpress.com/

I have just received a hand-drawn map that Joran Van Der Sloot drew, indicating where he now claims he disposed of Natalee Holloway’s body.

The map came from “Jaap,” a former friend of Joran Van Der Sloot. Dave Holloway put us in touch. Joran befriended Jaap after he won a reality show in the Netherlands, and a large sum of money. Just like he met Stephany Flores in the Casino in Peru. It’s Van Der Sloot’s MO to befriend people with money. Stephany had won $5,000.00.

Japp produced a documentary on Van Der Sloot, and Van Der Sloot told him yet another version of what happened to Natalee that night. He drew a map, and now I have the map. Because Jaap was in contact with Joran in the midst of the sting operation I mentioned in the last post, his communications were being monitored by the FBI. When Japp contacted me and informed me about the tapes he had, his house was raided that night, and investigators seized Japp’s computers, cell phone and the tapes he shot of Joran. I was able to get the map.

Tim Miller from Texas EquuSearch is here. I have given him the map and he is working on the search as I write this. It’s a stretch but Miller says, “We have to follow every lead, and we can’t afford not to do this.”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: augiedog on June 08, 2010, 05:44:12 PM
I still can't believe the Kalpoes have not come out yet. I would think that reporters would be at their door by now with Microphones in their faces. Or maybe pitchforks and torches would be better!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 05:45:38 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?
I see that hahahahaha
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Anita/ISA_SpiritWeek_2010.jpg)

She looks likes one of those "freak" circus performers


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:45:46 PM
What if one of those 2 Colombia girls carried a small white leather flower power purse?

good question and it would certainly make sense for the Columbian LE to want to talk to him pronto (before the Peruvians get hold of him and he is no more than a blubbering idiot)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:46:54 PM
http://larrykinglive.blogs.cnn.com/
Coming Up on LKL!

TONIGHT: HIGH-STAKES PRIMARY BATTLES KICK OFF!

Crucial Democratic and GOP seats are at risk. How will the Tea Party movement affect the vote? Plus, the Palin factor!  Will her endorsement help or hurt candidates?  Plus, Peruvian authorities say Joran Van der Sloot confesses to a murder in Peru.  The latest!

Live shows at 9pm & Midnight ET!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:47:42 PM
I still can't believe the Kalpoes have not come out yet. I would think that reporters would be at their door by now with Microphones in their faces. Or maybe pitchforks and torches would be better!

Good point! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 05:48:02 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?
I see that hahahahaha
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Anita/ISA_SpiritWeek_2010.jpg)

That is an interesting question there..................with all the sexual perversions in that house, there had to be some type of "deal" cut by her to stay out of the "men's" business.  Something was very wrong in that family and I can't help but feel that Paulus was the original deviate.  

I am always suspicious of any man who makes multiple trips to Thailand, and Bangkok. That is just me because having been there I KNOW what goes on in those streets and it is not pretty.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 05:49:14 PM
I still can't believe the Kalpoes have not come out yet. I would think that reporters would be at their door by now with Microphones in their faces. Or maybe pitchforks and torches would be better!

 Perhaps it will happen? Who knows anymore after all of this time!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 05:49:28 PM
The map came from “Jaap,”


Good Toilet paper Steph.
jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 08, 2010, 05:50:01 PM
Nonesuche, you are so right about that photo of Beth.  Before I read the caption underneath, I thought she looked like she'd been crying quite a bit.  How the opening, mixed with the current events must have her in knots, to say the very least. 

Thanks, Klaas, for posting the picture. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 05:51:15 PM
Sure hope we see photo or video of Anita soon...

"How is your delicious sporter?"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 05:51:36 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?
I see that hahahahaha
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Anita/ISA_SpiritWeek_2010.jpg)

That is an interesting question there..................with all the sexual perversions in that house, there had to be some type of "deal" cut by her to stay out of the "men's" business.  Something was very wrong in that family and I can't help but feel that Paulus was the original deviate.  

I am always suspicious of any man who makes multiple trips to Thailand, and Bangkok. That is just me because having been there I KNOW what goes on in those streets and it is not pretty.

I have it in my early notes on the Sloot family research.. apprently the Sloot family did not like her because of her privious profession and how Paulus met her..
Anyways.. She still has traits showing..
hehe


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cajun miracle on June 08, 2010, 05:52:15 PM
Does anyone know when the official charges will be filed?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 05:52:56 PM
Momma Sloot better have lots of clean underwear and pants for "Mr. pOOps I sh!t my pants again"

Most prisoners in Peru wear the clothes they were arrested in and if nobody brings em' other clothing, that's what they wear until they serve their sentence, or die........ which ever happens first.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 05:54:21 PM
I still can't believe the Kalpoes have not come out yet. I would think that reporters would be at their door by now with Microphones in their faces. Or maybe pitchforks and torches would be better!

They were protected just as joran was protected.....but I can see joran and the 'protectors' throwing them out like shark bait. they need to call the FBI  NOW


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 05:54:26 PM
Ofcourse I have no way of knowing is Anita was or was not a Window Girl in Amsterdam when she was younger and I am sure she would like to seperate herself from that image...
Just teaches the kiddies of Aruba arts and snuff.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 05:54:56 PM
What if one of those 2 Colombia girls carried a small white leather flower power purse?

You hit my spooky cold chills button!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 05:55:04 PM
Does anyone know when the official charges will be filed?

IIRC one of the articles said next day or so...I think they have 10 days from June 5th to keep him detained.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 05:55:28 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short

Joran

The crime you committed against the person of Stephany Flores is the definition of "barbaric".

Janet


It's ironic isn't it Janet? Justice and equity only for him, in his and his mother's eyes, right? Such elitists.....

This link has a haunting photo of Beth at the opening of the Natalee Holloway Resource Center today.

http://waok.cbslocal.com/2010/06/08/june-8-2010/mother-of-missing-teen-natalee-holloway-launches-missing-persons-center/

Hi None

There are those who believe that somehow they are exempt from the moral and legal boundaries that the rest of society adheres to.

Thanks for posting the image from the above link Klaas.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cajun miracle on June 08, 2010, 05:55:59 PM
My local news has ben covering this all week. Has this news gone viral in the US? Yipppeeee!!!!!!!!!
Great Job Monkeys!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 05:56:34 PM
I bet Anita is pissed her time with Richard Gere is being ruined (insert shrugging shoulder smiley)

And now her time with Joran is going to be ruined by a visit from Bogota LE!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 05:57:11 PM
Does anyone know when the official charges will be filed?

IIRC one of the articles said next day or so...I think they have 10 days from June 5th to keep him detained.



Joan keeps thinking of a SNICKERS commercial...
"Wanna get away?"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 08, 2010, 05:58:52 PM
Maybe  OT but this little story holds a lot of truth:

An old Cherokee was teaching his young grandson one of life’s most important lessons. He told the young boy the following parable:

“There is a fight going on inside each of us. It is a terrible fight between two wolves,” he said.

“One wolf is evil. He is anger, rage, envy, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego."

"The second wolf is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, empathy, truth, compassion, and faith.”

The grandson thought about this for a moment. Then he asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win this fight?”


The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 05:59:15 PM
Does anyone know when the official charges will be filed?

Yesterday they were saying as soon as today but that was before the confession/retraction.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 05:59:15 PM
Klaas

If it isn't too much trouble ... I would appreciate if you would bring forward that image of Glenda's post from RU blaming Beth for allowing the murder of Stephany to happen ... the post with Elaine's great response.

Thanks

Janet




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 06:01:26 PM
This woman must be related to the Anthony family.....................


His mother named Anita Van Der Sloot has talked to his son over the phone on the very day of Thursday when he was actually arrested by the Chili police but she did not send a single word out as to what their conversation was all about. The Anita Van Der Sloot only sent one signal out and that was the very fact that her son is not at all a criminal and he has not murdered anyone as well as the family is now looking forward to have a lawyer.

http://www.makli.com/anita-van-der-sloot-0042514/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 06:02:58 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?

ROTFLMaoooooooooooooooooooo!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 06:05:38 PM
better then calling her that name at the moment..

lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 06:05:59 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short

Joran

The crime you committed against the person of Stephany Flores is the definition of "barbaric".

Janet


It's ironic isn't it Janet? Justice and equity only for him, in his and his mother's eyes, right? Such elitists.....

This link has a haunting photo of Beth at the opening of the Natalee Holloway Resource Center today.

http://waok.cbslocal.com/2010/06/08/june-8-2010/mother-of-missing-teen-natalee-holloway-launches-missing-persons-center/

Hi Nonsuche... 

thanks for that Photo...beautiful Beth, she has done so much to assist others.  I wish she could be given the chance to bury her beloved daughter.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 06:06:10 PM
Although I am thinking what a Big One she really is..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 06:06:25 PM
I bet Anita is pissed her time with Richard Gere is being ruined (insert shrugging shoulder smiley)

 Sucks to be her!
Damn it anyhow! Now who is she going to romance to be the new Daddy of her demon spawn?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: camochance on June 08, 2010, 06:06:58 PM
So - did Joran leave Aruba on the 10th or the 13th? I've heard both - if he left on the 10th why did they wait to contact the FBI until the 13th?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 06:07:06 PM
Remember that nothing can force Peru to hand over Joran to any other country until he has completed the requirements of their justice system.  In other words, until he fulfills any sentences he may be given in Peru, they own him.

They don't have to honor ANY other requests for extradition and because of the close relationship of Stephany' father with LE, they have little to no motivation to even discuss Joran going anywhere.

Joran needed the deal, not Peru.  They have him dead to rights WITHOUT any confession and so that guarantees him nothing.  Besides, his confession has to be deemed "honest" and it doesn't even make sense. 

So even if Aruba wants Joran back or The NL wants him or Colombia or even the U.S. they will get Joran only after Peru is finished with him.  What's left of him, anyway.

And yes, Joran is making all civilized people sick calling any interrogation barbaric considering he is the barbarian here.  How insulting of his Dutch attoney advisor to even suggest such a thing.

Others will have to wait in line to get Joran the Barbarian.  They may be allowed to question him but it appears he owes Peru about 35 to life.  After that, we'll see who gets him next if there is a next.  No use to worry about it until it happens.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on June 08, 2010, 06:08:30 PM
Does anyone know when the official charges will be filed?

Yesterday they were saying as soon as today but that was before the confession/retraction.

As sad as this is, I can't help but giggle thinking of Anita meeting the Peruvian Police and her starting to girble on and on about her sporter.  Can you see the looks on their faces?  It is a little bit funny!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on June 08, 2010, 06:08:49 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?
I see that hahahahaha
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Anita/ISA_SpiritWeek_2010.jpg)

That is an interesting question there..................with all the sexual perversions in that house, there had to be some type of "deal" cut by her to stay out of the "men's" business.  Something was very wrong in that family and I can't help but feel that Paulus was the original deviate.  

I am always suspicious of any man who makes multiple trips to Thailand, and Bangkok. That is just me because having been there I KNOW what goes on in those streets and it is not pretty.

Speaking of Paulus being the deviate:  I think that Paulus was "the guy" that asked Joran to get him a blonde girl.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Shan1628 on June 08, 2010, 06:09:13 PM
I bet Anita is pissed her time with Richard Gere is being ruined (insert shrugging shoulder smiley)

 Sucks to be her!
Damn it anyhow! Now who is she going to romance to be the new Daddy of her demon spawn?

OH NO!  She isn't gonna 'breed' again, is she???  PLEASE say it isn't soooo!!!!  (btw, the first look at that post made me throw up a little)  YUCK. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:10:04 PM
Nonesuche, you are so right about that photo of Beth.  Before I read the caption underneath, I thought she looked like she'd been crying quite a bit.  How the opening, mixed with the current events must have her in knots, to say the very least. 

Thanks, Klaas, for posting the picture. 

Hugs to you NJ Mom, if you get a chance HLN is running the video of her closing comments. She was struggling to maintain her composure and I admit I just burst into tears for her. On the View today Whoopi Goldberg likened what Joran has done to ripping a mother's heart out by acting as if keeping closure from Beth was some kind of sick game he found to be "fun". I think that's the most accurate description I've heard of his torment for her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 06:10:41 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?

ROTFLMaoooooooooooooooooooo!


Considering Joran was 2 years old when they did marry, that's an interesting concept.  It appears they did not wed until she was already expecting Val. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 06:10:56 PM
Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Elaine on June 08, 2010, 06:12:09 PM

Hi monkeys!

I read here where Steve Watts said that Dave Holloway is headed to Aruba.

This article also says that, and says he will be joining Tim Miller tomorrow.

I hope Dave Holloway is not being put through another wild goose chase?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:13:02 PM
Just an aside about Greta's non-stop pursuit of the FBI, last night on BOR he had a sidebar with Greta regarding that - and played devil's advocate. Bill said it would have taken a fair amount of time for the FBI to get paperwork pushed through approval with Aruba to have arrested Joran, Greta still seemed to disagree so he stated they would "get in touch with the FBI and report their response back on tomorrow night's show".

So might be worth tuning in to see if BOR was able to get that response. BOR also clearly stated Joran is a murdering psychopath. Greta looked very uncomfortable throughout.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 06:13:38 PM
Klaas

If it isn't too much trouble ... I would appreciate if you would bring forward that image of Glenda's post from RU blaming Beth for allowing the murder of Stephany to happen ... the post with Elaine's great response.

Thanks

Janet




Is this the one?  I have a few saved:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaElaineRU.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
Maybe  OT but this little story holds a lot of truth:

An old Cherokee was teaching his young grandson one of life’s most important lessons. He told the young boy the following parable:

“There is a fight going on inside each of us. It is a terrible fight between two wolves,” he said.

“One wolf is evil. He is anger, rage, envy, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego."

"The second wolf is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, empathy, truth, compassion, and faith.”

The grandson thought about this for a moment. Then he asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win this fight?”


The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

LOVE this, JE - thank you for posting it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 06:14:34 PM
Blonde,
That's interesting that NOW suddenly Aruba wants to interrogate Joran?  They have had five years!

NO, PERU!  Do not allow Arubans to speak alone with Joran ever.  They will tell him to clam up and he will.

Peru is doing a splendid job and they don't need any help from any Arubans or Dutch.

I hope Peru will not allow Joran to speak alone with anybody.  Ever.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 06:15:00 PM

Hi monkeys!

I read here where Steve Watts said that Dave Holloway is headed to Aruba.

This article also says that, and says he will be joining Tim Miller tomorrow.

I hope Dave Holloway is not being put through another wild goose chase?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016)

Thanks Elaine, I think they are in Aruba right now!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 06:15:20 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?

ROTFLMaoooooooooooooooooooo!


Considering Joran was 2 years old when they did marry, that's an interesting concept.  It appears they did not wed until she was already expecting Val. 
Maybe Paulus was having one of those WTF did I do moments?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 06:16:26 PM
Just an aside about Greta's non-stop pursuit of the FBI, last night on BOR he had a sidebar with Greta regarding that - and played devil's advocate. Bill said it would have taken a fair amount of time for the FBI to get paperwork pushed through approval with Aruba to have arrested Joran, Greta still seemed to disagree so he stated they would "get in touch with the FBI and report their response back on tomorrow night's show".

So might be worth tuning in to see if BOR was able to get that response. BOR also clearly stated Joran is a murdering psychopath. Greta looked very uncomfortable throughout.

Did Greta fall in love with him, while doing her interview with him?
After all, they are both Dutch.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:17:50 PM
Just an aside about Greta's non-stop pursuit of the FBI, last night on BOR he had a sidebar with Greta regarding that - and played devil's advocate. Bill said it would have taken a fair amount of time for the FBI to get paperwork pushed through approval with Aruba to have arrested Joran, Greta still seemed to disagree so he stated they would "get in touch with the FBI and report their response back on tomorrow night's show".

So might be worth tuning in to see if BOR was able to get that response. BOR also clearly stated Joran is a murdering psychopath. Greta looked very uncomfortable throughout.

Did Greta fall in love with him, while doing her interview with him?
After all, they are both Dutch.

It is bizarre isn't it Buck?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 06:18:48 PM
Wonder if Deepak, Satish, and Nadira are following current events these days...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:19:07 PM
HLN is currently taking viewer calls to discuss Joran, interesting panel and questions.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 06:19:44 PM
Wonder if Deepak, Satish, and Nadira are following current events these days...



IMO they are sweatin' like Paulus


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:22:11 PM
Ok Jean Casarez is stating she has a new document from Interpol discussing the extortion case with many more details. He contacted Beth to extort money from her in early March of this year, it was his plan and he initiated it - only when he had the money and had been paid, did he admit back that his detail/map that she was buried beneath a house was "a lie".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Elaine on June 08, 2010, 06:22:21 PM

Hi monkeys!

I read here where Steve Watts said that Dave Holloway is headed to Aruba.

This article also says that, and says he will be joining Tim Miller tomorrow.

I hope Dave Holloway is not being put through another wild goose chase?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016)

Thanks Elaine, I think they are in Aruba right now!
YW. I really do wish that one of these searches could be fruitful.

It is just hard to get hopes up after all the ups and downs in this case.

For the sake of Natalee's family it would be great!

For Stephany's family I have faith that Peru will do what Aruba never did.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Toler on June 08, 2010, 06:23:05 PM


In Aruba, Resentment over a Storm of US Media
Christian Science Monitor ^ | 6/8/10 | Todd Wilkinson

Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:12:26 PM by Dr. Scarpetta

A U.S. media storm, generated primarily by cable news outlets Fox and CNN, has descended here, clouding the reputation of this former Dutch colony, many residents and longtime visitors say.

Media critics say that what's missing is perspective. Beyond appreciation for the time it takes for an investigation to proceed, particularly under the nuances of Dutch law, statistics confirm Aruba is far safer than almost all other Caribbean islands.

"Cable TV is treating this as the crime of the century, or at the least, the obsession of the moment," says Howard Kurtz, media critic for The Washington Post in an interview.

"There's undoubtedly been more coverage of Aruba over this disappearance than in the last two decades," says Mr. Kurtz.

"Television has become addicted to melodramas about missing white middle-class women. But even by Laci Peterson standards, the Holloway coverage is being way overdone."

Between recent comments made by Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, and television anchors who have portrayed investigators as the equivalent of bumbling Keystone Kops, many Arubans say they've had enough.

On Wednesday, a crowd of 200 staged a public protest in the capital city against Holloway Twitty's yet unproved criminal allegations against two suspects who have been released from custody.


(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2530413/posts


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 06:25:10 PM
Klaas

If it isn't too much trouble ... I would appreciate if you would bring forward that image of Glenda's post from RU blaming Beth for allowing the murder of Stephany to happen ... the post with Elaine's great response.

Thanks

Janet




Is this the one?  I have a few saved:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/GlendaElaineRU.jpg)

That is the one!!

Thanks Klaas.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 06:26:09 PM
Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html

I hope they can't get permission.......they need to sweat, to wonder who and what joran is going to give up of those within the cover up.....hells bells they KNOW where Natalee is.....that isn't what concerns them...it's what joran is willing to tell for a deal...this is a poker game for joran right now as far as aruba is concerned....and as it looks right now...he has the best hand.....if he goes down..he is going to take a lot of people down with him......bet the sale of tighty whiteys has gone up in aruba over the last couple of days


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 06:26:56 PM
Ok Jean Casarez is stating she has a new document from Interpol discussing the extortion case with many more details. He contacted Beth to extort money from her in early March of this year, it was his plan and he initiated it - only when he had the money and had been paid, did he admit back that his detail/map that she was buried beneath a house was "a lie".

I was watching too, Nonesuche, great recap! 

They made one other point I thought was interesting and that was that early March was only a couple of weeks after Paulus died.  Which reminded me of a question I wanted to ask here. 

Earlier this afternoon when I couldn't get into the forum I was watching the clip online from Dog the Bountyhunter on Joy Behar's show talking about Joran.  He mentioned the rumors that Joran was threatening suicide after his father died.  Does anyone remember anything about that?  I don't remember hearing that and just wondered where that came from.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 06:27:12 PM
Just an aside about Greta's non-stop pursuit of the FBI, last night on BOR he had a sidebar with Greta regarding that - and played devil's advocate. Bill said it would have taken a fair amount of time for the FBI to get paperwork pushed through approval with Aruba to have arrested Joran, Greta still seemed to disagree so he stated they would "get in touch with the FBI and report their response back on tomorrow night's show".

So might be worth tuning in to see if BOR was able to get that response. BOR also clearly stated Joran is a murdering psychopath. Greta looked very uncomfortable throughout.

thanks None


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 06:28:51 PM
From the words of our good friend, Simian: The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 06:30:11 PM
Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

Killing someone with a gun leaves you out of reach of the victim, so you don't feel anything.
Killing someone with a knife, bat, pillow, or other instrument gets you closer to the victim.  Sometimes the person cannot go through with it because of that.
Killing someone with your bare hands where you are actually touching their person, twisting her, hitting her, breaking her, and kicking her with your own body is beyond words.  Body to body contact where you are hurting someone and you know it is barbaric.



And it's VERY hard to break someone's neck....VERY (that usually happens in highly volatile occurrences, such as an automobile crash).


I was shown how and I was surprised with the right application how to do it, how easy it is.

Stephany Flores Ramirez's brother stated over the phone to Nancy Grace that his sister's eye was missing. Most likely that is due to blunt force trauma - her head being beaten on the wood of that bed. The bruises to her knees and top of her feet, for me, indicate she was on her knees at some point and that was caused by carpet burns wherein she was most likely trying to fight him. She was just a little ity bity thing compared to the size and girth of Joran.

I don't believe Stephany used his computer and find information he had on his computer about Natalee or himself. Joran studies law, his father also was someone they said knew all the laws by memory, Joran went and got coffee to get himself an alibi.

Remember, not long ago Joran was offering on a website to TEACH people poker for a price. I'll venture a guess that when they went to his room, he took out his computer to show her some of his big poker skills.

Something happened and I need to find that date - Joran's mother and brother removed Joran from their facebook. Jen do you have that handy????

Also, we know that Aruba helped Joran cover up the crime to Natalee, so it's not so far-fetched that Joran was tipped off about an arrest for extortion and he fled to Columbia.

Anyways, I know that some of his friends were in Columbia, so it would not surprise me if he had gone there first to join them and then took off for Lima, Peru for the casinos.

He had 10,000.00 cash plus $15,000.00 wired to his account. When he was in custody,
didn't they count out vent y cinco - something like  20 bucks on him. Where's the money?

Do we have an account of what he lost or won in the casino?





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: yuknomenot on June 08, 2010, 06:30:43 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short
"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.
Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sdb on June 08, 2010, 06:31:22 PM


In Aruba, Resentment over a Storm of US Media
Christian Science Monitor ^ | 6/8/10 | Todd Wilkinson

Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:12:26 PM by Dr. Scarpetta

A U.S. media storm, generated primarily by cable news outlets Fox and CNN, has descended here, clouding the reputation of this former Dutch colony, many residents and longtime visitors say.

Media critics say that what's missing is perspective. Beyond appreciation for the time it takes for an investigation to proceed, particularly under the nuances of Dutch law, statistics confirm Aruba is far safer than almost all other Caribbean islands.

"Cable TV is treating this as the crime of the century, or at the least, the obsession of the moment," says Howard Kurtz, media critic for The Washington Post in an interview.

"There's undoubtedly been more coverage of Aruba over this disappearance than in the last two decades," says Mr. Kurtz.

"Television has become addicted to melodramas about missing white middle-class women. But even by Laci Peterson standards, the Holloway coverage is being way overdone."

Between recent comments made by Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, and television anchors who have portrayed investigators as the equivalent of bumbling Keystone Kops, many Arubans say they've had enough.

On Wednesday, a crowd of 200 staged a public protest in the capital city against Holloway Twitty's yet unproved criminal allegations against two suspects who have been released from custody.


(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2530413/posts

Well I guess Mr. Kurtz has never had a missing daughter.

Nuances  **snort**


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 06:31:25 PM
Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html

I hope they can't get permission.......they need to sweat, to wonder who and what joran is going to give up of those within the cover up.....hells bells they KNOW where Natalee is.....that isn't what concerns them...it's what joran is willing to tell for a deal...this is a poker game for joran right now as far as aruba is concerned....and as it looks right now...he has the best hand.....if he goes down..he is going to take a lot of people down with him......bet the sale of tighty whiteys has gone up in aruba over the last couple of days

I hope he sells all who were involved in the cover-up in Aruba down the river, the problem now is that no one believes any given 'story' the pathological liar tells. I can see that becoming an obstacle to any 'truth' he might relate.

I do hope the Peruvians find that agreement he stated to Greta was in existence with the Kalpoe's attorney, defining the deal for him to keep his mouth shut and they would pay him one million when they won their case against Dr Phil - remember he states it was a document he received over the internet from their attorney.

Or it could be one more of his thousands of lies......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 06:32:48 PM
Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html

I hope they can't get permission.......they need to sweat, to wonder who and what joran is going to give up of those within the cover up.....hells bells they KNOW where Natalee is.....that isn't what concerns them...it's what joran is willing to tell for a deal...this is a poker game for joran right now as far as aruba is concerned....and as it looks right now...he has the best hand.....if he goes down..he is going to take a lot of people down with him......bet the sale of tighty whiteys has gone up in aruba over the last couple of days

That is exactly what is most-likely taking place and we're trying to stop it. Say a prayer.
So those who covered-up in Aruba will be caught. Just say a prayer.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 06:33:47 PM
Remember that Peru does not cut a deal for a confession unless they first need the confession to solve the case.  They don't.  Second, the confession has to be honest and sincere and able to be verified.  Joran's isn't.  So just for confessing, Joran is not going to get any special deal.

IMO and how I read the conditions for confessions.  Joran's just doesn't meet the criteria for reduction of sentence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 06:33:54 PM
I just don't believe she went on his laptop and he killed her for that.  Surely he would have had a password on that computer. And...wouldn't most of his stuff been in Dutch, English or Piamento (sp?).  She speaks Spanish (don't know if she understands Dutch or English).

Anyway...all of that info was old stuff and WHY would it be a surprise to her as we've already heard that she and her sister were talking about Joran some time back.

There's more to it and I believe he's lying like always.

He's trying to make it seem like he should be charged with manslaughter and not murder.

He's a liar...it'll never change.  NEVER.

I believe he killed her and he admitted that because he can't get out of it and if he confesses, he gets about 5 years less prison time than if he doesn't confess. 

It's all about getting the least amount of sentence at this time.
He's cut his losses (an old gambling pun)


 



That is a misprint.  Her cousin and his friend were talking about Joran, Stephany was not involved in the discussion if you listen to her cousin on tape.  Some news person transcribed the tape wrong and it has taken on a life of its own.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 06:36:40 PM
Kermit,

I got my miracle, lol.  But I have also been wondering what happened to all that extortion money.

Did he already have some very pressing gambling debts and it went to pay them?  Because he was flat broke in Peru oddly enough. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 06:37:35 PM
Bert de Rooij
Owner, de Rooij Van Wijk Advocaten
Tilburg Area, Netherlands
Contact Bert de Rooij
Add Bert de Rooij to your network
Current
Owner at de Rooij Bos Advocaten
Education: Universiteit van Tilburg
http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/bert-de-rooij/4/975/548

I smell another rat making deal coming


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: blah on June 08, 2010, 06:38:05 PM
Is Red gonna be on geraldo tonight?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 06:38:24 PM
This woman must be related to the Anthony family.....................


His mother named Anita Van Der Sloot has talked to his son over the phone on the very day of Thursday when he was actually arrested by the Chili police but she did not send a single word out as to what their conversation was all about. The Anita Van Der Sloot only sent one signal out and that was the very fact that her son is not at all a criminal and he has not murdered anyone as well as the family is now looking forward to have a lawyer.

http://www.makli.com/anita-van-der-sloot-0042514/

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005

 
ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: I'm sorry! Something he told me last night, that he still didn't believe it was true. And he said, Mom, don't worry, because I was crying and he was really hugging me. He said, The truth will come forward, and I know that I didn't do anything to the girl. And the truth will come forward. And he was so strong.

And I believe in him. I believe so in him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 06:38:31 PM

This one has it right.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37485355/ns/today-today_people/?ns=today-today_people

Only a month ago, a friend of Rafael Vertiz told him about a Dutch man suspected in the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Now the same man, Joran van der Sloot, is being sought in the vicious murder of Vertiz’s 21-year-old cousin, Stephany Flores, in Peru.

Read more: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37485355/ns/today-today_people/?ns=today-today_people#ixzz0qIu9eDMY



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 08, 2010, 06:38:35 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short
"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.
Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"

To get an idea of how the dutch feel about JVDS scroll down to read the reactions to this article

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraaf.nl%2Fbinnenland%2F6893537%2F___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html%3Fcid%3Dshort&sl=nl&tl=en


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 06:39:30 PM
If Aruba should be allowed to interrogate Joran after refusing to do so for five years, I hope and do think the Peruvians are savvy enough to be present and taking notes.  So far they have been on top of things in a very professional and dignified manner.  It might be the Peruvians who get information instead of the Arubans.

But no private conversations for Joran the Barbarian at all, please!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 06:42:40 PM
Kermit,

I got my miracle, lol.  But I have also been wondering what happened to all that extortion money.

Did he already have some very pressing gambling debts and it went to pay them?  Because he was flat broke in Peru oddly enough. 

We are on the same page. Drugs and gambling debt. Probably brought the unsuspecting Stephany to his room to pay her or show her something. Motive - was to steal her money. She's like her dad - has lots of guts and she put up a fight which he didn't expect. Remember, his mother said something about them not being able to control him and he had anger issues that they sent him to see a psychologist about. Stealing or something from his brother etc.

Cuz, it looks like Joran only had 20 bucks on him. Where's the rest of the money?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 06:44:49 PM
Kermit,

I got my miracle, lol.  But I have also been wondering what happened to all that extortion money.

Did he already have some very pressing gambling debts and it went to pay them?  Because he was flat broke in Peru oddly enough. 

I know it sounds crazy to most of us, but I've actually seen people bet $1,000/hand at blackjack.  If Joran has a gambling addiction, which we know he does, then two nights in casinos in Bogota is plenty of time for him to lose that money - all $25k.  I don't necessarily think that's what happened, but it certainly is possible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 06:44:51 PM
Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html

I hope they can't get permission.......they need to sweat, to wonder who and what joran is going to give up of those within the cover up.....hells bells they KNOW where Natalee is.....that isn't what concerns them...it's what joran is willing to tell for a deal...this is a poker game for joran right now as far as aruba is concerned....and as it looks right now...he has the best hand.....if he goes down..he is going to take a lot of people down with him......bet the sale of tighty whiteys has gone up in aruba over the last couple of days

That is exactly what is most-likely taking place and we're trying to stop it. Say a prayer.
So those who covered-up in Aruba will be caught. Just say a prayer.

thanks Kermit....prayers you got......it's SOP now.  The poster Tim gave me from Aruba still is prominently displayed in the read window of my Mini.....atop the poster is a sign that says Boycott Aruba. I vowed that poster and sign would stay right where they are Natalee has justice.......or until I die...which ever comes first....I plan to live a LONG time .  GIVE NATALEE JUSTICE!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 06:47:00 PM

Hi monkeys!

I read here where Steve Watts said that Dave Holloway is headed to Aruba.

This article also says that, and says he will be joining Tim Miller tomorrow.

I hope Dave Holloway is not being put through another wild goose chase?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016)

Hi Elaine!  Good to see you!

I hope not too.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
Remember that Peru does not cut a deal for a confession unless they first need the confession to solve the case.  They don't.  Second, the confession has to be honest and sincere and able to be verified.  Joran's isn't.  So just for confessing, Joran is not going to get any special deal.

IMO and how I read the conditions for confessions.  Joran's just doesn't meet the criteria for reduction of sentence.

thanks Anna.....I still think that Stephany's father would OK a deal (not sure what kind of deal.....I have several ideas on that) if joran gives up the location of Natalee......he has a lot of power inPeru...that and pressure from the Netherlands and Aruba....I just dont know....but NOTHING will surprise me....  I would have bet the farm that joran would never have confessed.....I'd have lost the farm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 06:50:38 PM
Bert de Rooij
Owner, de Rooij Van Wijk Advocaten
Tilburg Area, Netherlands
Contact Bert de Rooij
Add Bert de Rooij to your network
Current
Owner at de Rooij Bos Advocaten
Education: Universiteit van Tilburg
http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/bert-de-rooij/4/975/548

I smell another rat making deal coming

Kermit, I have smell that stink all along.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 06:51:44 PM
Is Red gonna be on geraldo tonight?

HUH?????  I hope not.....Whoraldo is on the list with NG and Greta.....chit list


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 06:53:34 PM
Bert de Rooij
Owner, de Rooij Van Wijk Advocaten
Tilburg Area, Netherlands
Contact Bert de Rooij
Add Bert de Rooij to your network
Current
Owner at de Rooij Bos Advocaten
Education: Universiteit van Tilburg
http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/bert-de-rooij/4/975/548

I smell another rat making deal coming

Kermit, I have smell that stink all along.....


You reminded me in your other post of the blue bracelet we all wore. I still have mine.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: yuknomenot on June 08, 2010, 06:54:37 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short
"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.
Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"

To get an idea of how the dutch feel about JVDS scroll down to read the reactions to this article

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraaf.nl%2Fbinnenland%2F6893537%2F___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html%3Fcid%3Dshort&sl=nl&tl=en
Thank-you for the link.  I didn't doubt the average Dutch citizen thinks as we do of Joran. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 06:55:31 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short
"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.
Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"
Joran your a CANDY ASS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 06:55:52 PM
I don't think Natalee was found, TJ would have called me if she was. Or it's a huge secret - which I doubt there is any need to be so hush hush.

About that little purse - Joran left the room for about forty five minutes when he went to get coffee - I think it could be Stephany's purse - but I don't know - he could have taken her keys after he killed her and went to her car / van. And robbed it. I don't know all the details here.

Nut - thanks for that clarification.

+++

Quote
De Rooij tells RTL News that Van der Sloot confession shortly before he traveled with his mother called. Against it he would have said that he was afraid of barbaric interrogation methods. 

I KNOW this is for the world community - you know, the RU'ers that think Joran's human rights are so flippin' important - but what about those that Joran denies their human rights. Such hypocrites. Joran is the biggest denier of human rights since the taliban.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 08, 2010, 06:56:22 PM
Local reaction to van der Sloot confession
Mountain Brook residents react to the arrest, and today?s confession of the man suspected in her disappearance, Joran van der Sloot.

http://www2.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/local_reaction_to_van_der_sloot_arrest/158381/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 06:59:16 PM
Remember that Peru does not cut a deal for a confession unless they first need the confession to solve the case.  They don't.  Second, the confession has to be honest and sincere and able to be verified.  Joran's isn't.  So just for confessing, Joran is not going to get any special deal.

IMO and how I read the conditions for confessions.  Joran's just doesn't meet the criteria for reduction of sentence.

I'm not thinking of reduction but extradition to Netherlands wherein he can serve his time for the first murder which can't be proved a murder against him, so he'll serve a limited time for body disposal in exchange for telling where Natalee's body is.

He calls himself CHECKMATE and I'm praying that the only checkmate is going to be exposing all those involved and return Natalee home where she belongs on American soil.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 07:01:38 PM
Bert de Rooij
Owner, de Rooij Van Wijk Advocaten
Tilburg Area, Netherlands
Contact Bert de Rooij
Add Bert de Rooij to your network
Current
Owner at de Rooij Bos Advocaten
Education: Universiteit van Tilburg
http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/bert-de-rooij/4/975/548

I smell another rat making deal coming

Kermit, I have smell that stink all along.....


You reminded me in your other post of the blue bracelet we all wore. I still have mine.

me too!  I got a tee shirt at one of the TES fundraisers in Houston ..that said Natalee Holloway Search in Aruba....it was my favorite TES shirt. Dave came to a TES golf fund raiser in Houston and asked me where I got the shirt....he liked it. I asked around to see if TES has any left....nope, none...so I took off my pink tee shirt and gave it to Dave.....he thanked me and gave me a big old hug....with tears in his eyes...he said I should never have let her go.... I hope he has come to realize that he couldn't have stopped her or what happened.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 07:01:44 PM
"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.
Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"
[/quote]
Joran your a CANDY ASS
[/quote]

OH MY GOSH BLONDE - THAT IS TOO FUNNY - ROFLMAO!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 07:03:49 PM


So, I'm in another window with two tabs open - one is the El Comercio news site in Lima and the other is the google translation tool.

I'm reading the today's article about the Columbia missing girls and the comments left by readers.  Suddenly - there's a comment left by Ms. Marple this afternoon!

Love, love, love that!  Way to go, Ms. Marple, you rock!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 07:04:22 PM

Hi monkeys!

I read here where Steve Watts said that Dave Holloway is headed to Aruba.

This article also says that, and says he will be joining Tim Miller tomorrow.

I hope Dave Holloway is not being put through another wild goose chase?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016)

Thanks Elaine, I think they are in Aruba right now!
YW. I really do wish that one of these searches could be fruitful.

It is just hard to get hopes up after all the ups and downs in this case.

For the sake of Natalee's family it would be great!

For Stephany's family I have faith that Peru will do what Aruba never did.

Aruba can "bite this"................they had their chance, they did NOTHING.............what they need to do is get rid of their corrupt officials who let all these women be murdered because of their lack of action.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 07:04:54 PM
me too!  I got a tee shirt at one of the TES fundraisers in Houston ..that said Natalee Holloway Search in Aruba....it was my favorite TES shirt. Dave came to a TES golf fund raiser in Houston and asked me where I got the shirt....he liked it. I asked around to see if TES has any left....nope, none...so I took off my pink tee shirt and gave it to Dave.....he thanked me and gave me a big old hug....with tears in his eyes...he said I should never have let her go.... I hope he has come to realize that he couldn't have stopped her or what happened.

That was so sweet of you to do that for Dave. At least he knows through yours and many people's actions who have stood by this case and never gave up hope - he was not alone. let's home we can get'em all now and bring Natalee home to her family and her home - America!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2010, 07:06:33 PM


So, I'm in another window with two tabs open - one is the El Comercio news site in Lima and the other is the google translation tool.

I'm reading the today's article about the Columbia missing girls and the comments left by readers.  Suddenly - there's a comment left by Ms. Marple this afternoon!

Love, love, love that!  Way to go, Ms. Marple, you rock!

Ms. Marple - another outstanding human being.
And your timelines are so important Lifesong, thank you for all you do too.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:07:08 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
Absoflippinlutely


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 08, 2010, 07:11:17 PM
My baby girl woke up a bit  ago...  <my beautiful grandaughter>  I fed her at the moment shes watching an ELMO dvd.. I need to go and sit with her.. ELMO for the rest of the night for me..  TY all for posting updates. I have a busy today tomorrow for work.. hope to be able to catch up sometime or someone emails me ? TIA

Have a great night !

Off to go snuggle with my Morgan baby !! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 08, 2010, 07:11:44 PM
Julia Renhoe is at it again! Can't stand her!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 07:11:53 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 07:11:59 PM
Julia R is on JVM, they were showing a picture of her on the phone.  Did someone beat her with the ugly stick?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:12:01 PM
OMG   Renho on JVM HLN right now STILL spitting her garbage, it got a good bit testy on air for a few seconds...my words to her

Blood on your hands beeotch!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:12:14 PM
Bert de Rooij
Owner, de Rooij Van Wijk Advocaten
Tilburg Area, Netherlands
Contact Bert de Rooij
Add Bert de Rooij to your network
Current
Owner at de Rooij Bos Advocaten
Education: Universiteit van Tilburg
http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/bert-de-rooij/4/975/548

I smell another rat making deal coming

Paulus,
van der Straaten,
Oduber,
Rooij


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 07:13:53 PM
Julia R is on JVM, they were showing a picture of her on the phone.  Did someone beat her with the ugly stick?

LMFAOOOOOO I love it when they use that photo of her....hahahaaa


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Buckeye on June 08, 2010, 07:14:12 PM
At what point, during the barbaric treatment, did they take a break for him to call his mother?  How barbaric is that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 07:15:04 PM
At what point, during the barbaric treatment, did they take a break for him to call his mother?  How barbaric is that?

Great point Buckeye!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 07:16:40 PM
me too!  I got a tee shirt at one of the TES fundraisers in Houston ..that said Natalee Holloway Search in Aruba....it was my favorite TES shirt. Dave came to a TES golf fund raiser in Houston and asked me where I got the shirt....he liked it. I asked around to see if TES has any left....nope, none...so I took off my pink tee shirt and gave it to Dave.....he thanked me and gave me a big old hug....with tears in his eyes...he said I should never have let her go.... I hope he has come to realize that he couldn't have stopped her or what happened.

That was so sweet of you to do that for Dave. At least he knows through yours and many people's actions who have stood by this case and never gave up hope - he was not alone. let's home we can get'em all now and bring Natalee home to her family and her home - America!

AMEN to that Kermit.   Natalee's FAMILY.....all of them...need to be able to have her home, give her a proper Christian burial and have a place to go and sit and reflect. I think at time many forgot there was a father and a step father who also mourned the loss of Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 07:17:13 PM


I was shown how and I was surprised with the right application how to do it, how easy it is.

Stephany Flores Ramirez's brother stated over the phone to Nancy Grace that his sister's eye was missing. Most likely that is due to blunt force trauma - her head being beaten on the wood of that bed. The bruises to her knees and top of her feet, for me, indicate she was on her knees at some point and that was caused by carpet burns wherein she was most likely trying to fight him. She was just a little ity bity thing compared to the size and girth of Joran.

I don't believe Stephany used his computer and find information he had on his computer about Natalee or himself. Joran studies law, his father also was someone they said knew all the laws by memory, Joran went and got coffee to get himself an alibi.

Remember, not long ago Joran was offering on a website to TEACH people poker for a price. I'll venture a guess that when they went to his room, he took out his computer to show her some of his big poker skills.

Something happened and I need to find that date - Joran's mother and brother removed Joran from their facebook. Jen do you have that handy????

Also, we know that Aruba helped Joran cover up the crime to Natalee, so it's not so far-fetched that Joran was tipped off about an arrest for extortion and he fled to Columbia.

Anyways, I know that some of his friends were in Columbia, so it would not surprise me if he had gone there first to join them and then took off for Lima, Peru for the casinos.

He had 10,000.00 cash plus $15,000.00 wired to his account. When he was in custody,
didn't they count out vent y cinco - something like  20 bucks on him. Where's the money?

Do we have an account of what he lost or won in the casino?





Honey, the day the news broke - it was that same night.  Sorry about a lack of dates from me right now, I'm all sorts of discombobulated these days.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Elaine on June 08, 2010, 07:17:37 PM

Hi monkeys!

I read here where Steve Watts said that Dave Holloway is headed to Aruba.

This article also says that, and says he will be joining Tim Miller tomorrow.

I hope Dave Holloway is not being put through another wild goose chase?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016)

Hi Elaine!  Good to see you!

I hope not too.  
Hi texasmom!

Good to see you too. Kudos to all the monkeys who have kept Natalee's story going here.

I was just watchimg JVM on CNN and Julia was on the phone. She started her babbling about how Aruba couldn't do anything blahblahblaaaaah. Then Jane struck the gavel down and poof Julia was no longer on. I swear I heard the sound of hot air being let out of a big balloon as Julia fizzled away.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 07:18:02 PM
NOTE:  I'VE MADE SOME CHANGES IN THE LOOKS OF THE FORUM.  I HAVE CREATED CHILD BOARDS.  NOTHING IS GONE, JUST CLICK ON THE MAIN AREA AND YOU WILL SEE ALL THE OLD THREADS.

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HELP THE FORUM FROM GOING DOWN.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 07:18:14 PM
O/T  >>>>>>>>>>>

Re: Ryann Bunnell Crow 23, CA  Missing Since 1/30/09

REMAINS FOUND

http://www.thecalifornian.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100608019/1002/NEWS01/Monterey+County+DA++Ryann+Bunnell+Crow+s+body+found

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7158.new#new


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 07:18:16 PM
Aruban officials uncertain reported Joran van der Sloot confession will help Natalee Holloway case

June 08, 2010, 3:31PM

The Birmingham News
Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Aruban officials say they're uncertain a reported confession from Joran van der Sloot will be enough to convict him but they still hope information that comes from his interrogation in Peru will help them with Natalee Holloway's case.

Van der Sloot has long been the prime suspect in Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba. A police spokesman in Peru said he admitted under questioning that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his hotel room.

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.

Although an Aruban newspaper editor reported that police were renewing their search for Holloway's remains on the island, Stein said that there is no official search underway. He said private investigators may be conducting some kind of search.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/aruban_officials_uncertain_rep.html


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 184:
  Then FBI agent Bill comes by and delivers the final blow. "The FBI has never received one single document from the Arubans. Not one tape. Nothing." he says sadly. Depite our personal pleas to authorities here and our broadcast appeals to Aruba to let the FBI lend a hand, and regardless of Aruba's public response that it would welcome FBI assistance, the island never let FBI agents in on the investigation. Never passed them the ball. Not even for one minute.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cw618 on June 08, 2010, 07:18:36 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
Absoflippinlutely

had got behind,and was just working that out
agreed
Absoflippinlutely


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 07:19:09 PM
Bert de Rooij
Owner, de Rooij Van Wijk Advocaten
Tilburg Area, Netherlands
Contact Bert de Rooij
Add Bert de Rooij to your network
Current
Owner at de Rooij Bos Advocaten
Education: Universiteit van Tilburg
http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/bert-de-rooij/4/975/548

I smell another rat making deal coming

Aw hell.  Daddy's school.  Don't worry Kerm, I have a feeling Peru isn't going to tolerate the Dutch elitist attitude that we all saw so prevalently in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 07:20:33 PM
"Possible false confession Joran" AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot may have under pressure a false confession to the murder of Stephany Flores. That says his Dutch lawyer Bert de Rooij.
Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."

De Rooij van der Sloot represents in this case, but he advises him.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6893537/___Mogelijk_valse_bekentenis_Joran___.html?cid=short
"Under De Rooij Joran shortly before his confession in a telephone conversation with his mother indicated that he was afraid of the interrogation methods of the Peruvian police, he told RTL Nieuws. The crying Joran would have called such methods "barbaric."mother."
What was he thinking when Stephany was crying for her life.
Apparently the English to Dutch translation of Joe
Tacopina is "Bert de Rooij"
Joran your a CANDY ASS

To satisfy all the Peruvian prisoners "sweet tooth" cravings


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 07:20:38 PM

Tim Miller breaks the news on HLN!  Telling JVM about the girls in Columbia!

Way to go, Tim!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:21:22 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
Absoflippinlutely

Tim Miller just made it go national - THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE HERE.

The Colombians must have some travel dates that are jiving.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:21:31 PM
TIM MILLER BREAKING NEWS:     Joran is being investigated for the 2 COlumbian girls killed in a casino - investigators being sent



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: anothermonkey on June 08, 2010, 07:23:01 PM
TIM MILLER BREAKING NEWS:     Joran is being investigated for the 2 COlumbian girls killed in a casino - investigators being sent


OMG!  It sounds like a couple people on here knew already before he told JVM?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on June 08, 2010, 07:23:09 PM
OMG   Renho on JVM HLN right now STILL spitting her garbage, it got a good bit testy on air for a few seconds...my words to her

Blood on your hands beeotch!

Had to read this twice.  I thought you posted:

STILL the spitting image of garbage.

I was nodding my head in agreement.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 07:23:52 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes... and it was interesting to note -

The topic was the Aruban cover up...

and Julia, or as I like to call her the `drunken whore` said:

There was no evidence of a... (pause)  crime.

She was off topic. She must have slogans printed on 3x5 cards in front of her
and she keeps repeating them like a dang parrot.

When you answer off topic... you have actually answered the question.

A none answer - is your answer. I find it amazing that she has watched where
these same tactics have landed Joran - yet she continues to follow him over
the cliff.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 07:24:38 PM
TIM MILLER BREAKING NEWS:     Joran is being investigated for the 2 COlumbian girls killed in a casino - investigators being sent


OMG!  It sounds like a couple people on here knew already before he told JVM?

It was in the Spanish news this afternoon.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:24:40 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
Absoflippinlutely

Tim Miller just made it go national - THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE HERE.

The Colombians must have some travel dates that are jiving.

Yup

What many of us feared all along....starting with him killing a dog when he was younger... Ted Bundy Redux

Problem is according to what we're hearing he could be out in 10 years, US charges or something has to keep this SOB locked up...then again that is if he survives Peru prison


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:25:18 PM
Julia R is on JVM, they were showing a picture of her on the phone.  Did someone beat her with the ugly stick?

LMFAOOOOOO I love it when they use that photo of her....hahahaaa

broad needs some stool softener and a plunger.

+++

did ya'll hear that Joran says that he was HIT by Stephany FIRST?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Miss-Underestimated on June 08, 2010, 07:25:34 PM
When is Julia going to apologize?  Her and scumbagjap slandered Natalee and her family. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 07:25:37 PM
Remember that Peru does not cut a deal for a confession unless they first need the confession to solve the case.  They don't.  Second, the confession has to be honest and sincere and able to be verified.  Joran's isn't.  So just for confessing, Joran is not going to get any special deal.

IMO and how I read the conditions for confessions.  Joran's just doesn't meet the criteria for reduction of sentence.



thanks Anna.....I still think that Stephany's father would OK a deal (not sure what kind of deal.....I have several ideas on that) if joran gives up the location of Natalee......he has a lot of power inPeru...that and pressure from the Netherlands and Aruba....I just dont know....but NOTHING will surprise me....  I would have bet the farm that joran would never have confessed.....I'd have lost the farm

Maybe he was going to take back his confession and then realized when he came to from his alcohol-and-drug-induced, state that Poppa was not there to help him lose the paperwork and tape recordings.  I just heard Shep Smith discussing with attorneys how bad the prison is to which he will be sent.

He grabbed her throat and then hit her.  The confession came after 10 long hours of investigation.  The NL is discussing whether or not it was illegal.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:26:30 PM
OMG   Renho on JVM HLN right now STILL spitting her garbage, it got a good bit testy on air for a few seconds...my words to her

Blood on your hands beeotch!

Had to read this twice.  I thought you posted:

STILL the spitting image of garbage.

I was nodding my head in agreement.


LMAO,   that too     Beat with an ugly stick for certain & ugly to the core


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cw618 on June 08, 2010, 07:26:37 PM
Quote
Tim Miller just made it go national - THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE HERE.

The Colombians must have some travel dates that are jiving.

i knew there would be LE everywhere looking into his travel stamps/dates
i fear more will come from the past 5yr or older dates
the first time i heard way back about the dog,i knew then something was wrong with joran, IE animals incite, ah how cute, not a feeling to brutalize


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 07:26:46 PM
Quote from: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 05:10:56 PM

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I so HOPE they don't let ANYONE FROM ARUBA get involved in this in anyway. They will do anything at this point to cover their OWN *sses and will try to subvert any evidence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 08, 2010, 07:26:47 PM
2 more missing in Columbia............ stop Joran Vandersloot.................. someone stop him!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:26:57 PM
There should have been a picture of Joran on the front door of every casino worldwide with a giant ass warning - STAY AWAY FROM THIS WOMAN KILLER. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 07:27:11 PM
Fox discussing the disappearance of the 2 Columbian women and any possibility that Joran was connected to this, why the Peruvian lawmakers were saying we may be looking at a serial killer.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 07:28:28 PM
Quote
Tim Miller just made it go national - THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE HERE.

The Colombians must have some travel dates that are jiving.

i knew there would be LE everywhere looking into his travel stamps/dates
i fear more will come from the past 5yr or older dates
the first time i heard way back about the dog,i knew then something was wrong with joran, IE animals incite, ah how cute, not a feeling to brutalize

Joran was in the gambling institution at the same time as the two girls who disappeared.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 07:29:09 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes... and it was interesting to note -

The topic was the Aruban cover up...

and Julia, or as I like to call her the `drunken whore` said:

There was no evidence of a... (pause)  crime.

She was off topic. She must have slogans printed on 3x5 cards in front of her
and she keeps repeating them like a dang parrot.


When you answer off topic... you have actually answered the question.

A none answer - is your answer. I find it amazing that she has watched where
these same tactics have landed Joran - yet she continues to follow him over
the cliff.

THANK YOU CARPE!  

Exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't put the words together!  She makes me sooooo freakin' mad!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:29:17 PM
TIM MILLER BREAKING NEWS:     Joran is being investigated for the 2 COlumbian girls killed in a casino - investigators being sent


OMG!  It sounds like a couple people on here knew already before he told JVM?

It was in the Spanish news this afternoon.

Yes, we heard reports earlier, but that is the first I heard that investigators were being sent.    Good point just now, if he was there hopefully he will be caught on surveillance tape as well.     


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:30:19 PM
There should have been a picture of Joran on the front door of every casino worldwide with a giant ass warning - STAY AWAY FROM THIS WOMAN KILLER. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

It would have been more effective if they branded it on his forehead!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:30:32 PM
Quote
Tim Miller just made it go national - THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE HERE.

The Colombians must have some travel dates that are jiving.

i knew there would be LE everywhere looking into his travel stamps/dates
i fear more will come from the past 5yr or older dates
the first time i heard way back about the dog,i knew then something was wrong with joran, IE animals incite, ah how cute, not a feeling to brutalize

all they need are his entry and exit travel visas into and out of Colombia.

When you enter and exit you sign papers and your passport is scanned.

it's recorded.

It would be very very easy to see if he was there on the dates in question.

you check it, double check and then triple check it - then you send investigators to Peru.

you don't check it, double check and triple check THEN send investigators to Peru UNLESS the dates are in sync.

Something jives.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 07:32:10 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes... and it was interesting to note -

The topic was the Aruban cover up...

and Julia, or as I like to call her the `drunken whore` said:

There was no evidence of a... (pause)  crime.

She was off topic. She must have slogans printed on 3x5 cards in front of her
and she keeps repeating them like a dang parrot.


When you answer off topic... you have actually answered the question.

A none answer - is your answer. I find it amazing that she has watched where
these same tactics have landed Joran - yet she continues to follow him over
the cliff.

THANK YOU CARPE!  

Exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't put the words together!  She makes me sooooo freakin' mad!

I would be willing to bet she was one of the dogs that was paid off to keep quiet about Joran and Natalee.  I think this old empty vessel was involved to the degree that the Kalpoes are, perhaps more.  She was probably paid more to keep quiet and to come to all the blogs and spread rancid venom.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 07:33:53 PM
Quote from: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 05:10:56 PM

That report has given Aruban investigators hope but van der Sloot has been so unreliable that it must be verified, Aruban Attorney General Taco Stein said in a phone interview this afternoon.

"We have had so many statements by Joran that we will have to evaluate that very carefully," Stein said.

He said he had been in communication with the Peruvian prosecutor's office and is ready to send Aruban investigators to take part if permission is granted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I so HOPE they don't let ANYONE FROM ARUBA get involved in this in anyway. They will do anything at this point to cover their OWN *sses and will try to subvert any evidence.


ARUBA BUTT OUT, you didnt do anything but protect this monster along with your other partners in crime   KISS OFF!    Sorry, Im fuming with them trying to save what little is left of the Aruba/Dutch government system.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:34:32 PM
Cap - I don't think anyone is saying that these girls are "killed" - not just yet - they are saying "missing".

I know what you mean though, but just thought I would say that so no one thinks there are any bodies yet.

At least that's what I *think* I'm hearing. LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 07:34:32 PM
Julia R is on JVM, they were showing a picture of her on the phone.  Did someone beat her with the ugly stick?

LMFAOOOOOO I love it when they use that photo of her....hahahaaa

broad needs some stool softener and a plunger.

+++

did ya'll hear that Joran says that he was HIT by Stephany FIRST?



I heard that earlier, sent my head spinning......that is just BS! Joran the coward!

and FWIW, I take a lot of what Jean Casarez with a grain of salt. She's full of mis-information.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 07:35:22 PM

Hi monkeys!

I read here where Steve Watts said that Dave Holloway is headed to Aruba.

This article also says that, and says he will be joining Tim Miller tomorrow.

I hope Dave Holloway is not being put through another wild goose chase?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7486016&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7486016)

Hi Elaine!  Good to see you!

I hope not too.  
Hi texasmom!

Good to see you too. Kudos to all the monkeys who have kept Natalee's story going here.

I was just watchimg JVM on CNN and Julia was on the phone. She started her babbling about how Aruba couldn't do anything blahblahblaaaaah. Then Jane struck the gavel down and poof Julia was no longer on. I swear I heard the sound of hot air being let out of a big balloon as Julia fizzled away.


ROFL what a disturbing dusty vision that just created.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cw618 on June 08, 2010, 07:35:24 PM
Quote
Tim Miller just made it go national - THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE HERE.

The Colombians must have some travel dates that are jiving.

i knew there would be LE everywhere looking into his travel stamps/dates
i fear more will come from the past 5yr or older dates
the first time i heard way back about the dog,i knew then something was wrong with joran, IE animals incite, ah how cute, not a feeling to brutalize

all they need are his entry and exit travel visas into and out of Colombia.

When you enter and exit you sign papers and your passport is scanned.

it's recorded.

It would be very very easy to see if he was there on the dates in question.

you check it, double check and then triple check it - then you send investigators to Peru.

you don't check it, double check and triple check THEN send investigators to Peru UNLESS the dates are in sync.

Something jives.

thanks, havent been out of country for 10yr, wasnt sure how it worked now


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 07:35:26 PM
TIM MILLER BREAKING NEWS:     Joran is being investigated for the 2 COlumbian girls killed in a casino - investigators being sent



Excellent news!  They will have plenty of surveillance video from the casinos. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 07:36:09 PM
NOTE:  I'VE MADE SOME CHANGES IN THE LOOKS OF THE FORUM.  I HAVE CREATED CHILD BOARDS.  NOTHING IS GONE, JUST CLICK ON THE MAIN AREA AND YOU WILL SEE ALL THE OLD THREADS.

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HELP THE FORUM FROM GOING DOWN.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 07:36:13 PM
Doesn't JVM read the d@mn news? She's on my last nerve tonight


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 07:36:25 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes... and it was interesting to note -

The topic was the Aruban cover up...

and Julia, or as I like to call her the `drunken whore` said:

There was no evidence of a... (pause)  crime.

She was off topic. She must have slogans printed on 3x5 cards in front of her
and she keeps repeating them like a dang parrot.


When you answer off topic... you have actually answered the question.

A none answer - is your answer. I find it amazing that she has watched where
these same tactics have landed Joran - yet she continues to follow him over
the cliff.

THANK YOU CARPE!  

Exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't put the words together!  She makes me sooooo freakin' mad!

I would be willing to bet she was one of the dogs that was paid off to keep quiet about Joran and Natalee.  I think this old empty vessel was involved to the degree that the Kalpoes are, perhaps more.  She was probably paid more to keep quiet and to come to all the blogs and spread rancid venom.

I agree Tylergal!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 08, 2010, 07:37:25 PM
TIM MILLER BREAKING NEWS:     Joran is being investigated for the 2 COlumbian girls killed in a casino - investigators being sent


OMG!  It sounds like a couple people on here knew already before he told JVM?

It was in the Spanish news this afternoon.

Yes, we heard reports earlier, but that is the first I heard that investigators were being sent.    Good point just now, if he was there hopefully he will be caught on surveillance tape as well.     

Capp,
My understanding is that he was already on tape in casinos in Columbia at the same time as the girls that disappeared.  I read that earlier on SAmerican wesites.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:38:13 PM
If Aruba notified the FBI that Joran was leaving Aruba on May 13th and Interpol can prove he was in Colombia on May 6th, wouldn't that prove that Aruba gave Joran a week to get out of "dodge"?

very interesting
Absoflippinlutely

Tim Miller just made it go national - THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MORE HERE.

The Colombians must have some travel dates that are jiving.

Yup

What many of us feared all along....starting with him killing a dog when he was younger... Ted Bundy Redux

Problem is according to what we're hearing he could be out in 10 years, US charges or something has to keep this SOB locked up...then again that is if he survives Peru prison

Cap - In my humble opinion, and that's all this is, if Joran ever makes it to one of those two prisons, he will be dead in less than a week. I am sure he will not last one week in Gen Pop.

This is the end of the road for Mr Delicious.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 08, 2010, 07:39:02 PM
didnt the cab driver say Joran didn't have a cell phone?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 07:39:13 PM
omg Renfro disconnected from Jane's show, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 07:39:24 PM
I can't believe JVM was going to try to talk to that nut again!

Fortunately for my blood pressure, Renho had already hung up!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Port Valerie on June 08, 2010, 07:40:19 PM
What are child boards? You lock us in so we can't fall out? What if we promise to behave in here?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 07:41:28 PM
What are child boards? You lock us in so we can't fall out? What if we promise to behave in here?

LOL, child boards are simply sub-boards.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 08, 2010, 07:42:41 PM
Also earlier today , I read a article that was translated, that another Dutch speaking citizen was in Aruba at gambling tables with Joran.  He and Joran struck up a conversation where Juran revealed he was thinking he would marry only a rich ugly woman, make her pregnant to marry her and then do as he pleased.  He said he wanted to marry a rich ugly woman so she wouldn't spend too much money on herself and would not ask too many questions.

First..was it here I read that article..if not..did anyone else read that article?


This says to me that Joran had no use for women other then money and sex.  Where would he get this idea..from Daddy of course!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JE on June 08, 2010, 07:44:27 PM
Breaking News:

A pharmaceutical company that manufactures DiaEx, a medicine against diarhea, has offered to pay for the legal expenses of Joran van der Sloot.
"It's not that we believe in his innocense, but someone has to stop the crap comming out of this clown, we felt it was the right thing to do" a spokesperson for the company told the press.

More to follow...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 08, 2010, 07:45:36 PM
NOTE:  I'VE MADE SOME CHANGES IN THE LOOKS OF THE FORUM.  I HAVE CREATED CHILD BOARDS.  NOTHING IS GONE, JUST CLICK ON THE MAIN AREA AND YOU WILL SEE ALL THE OLD THREADS.

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HELP THE FORUM FROM GOING DOWN.


Thanks Klaas.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 07:45:40 PM
NOTE:  I'VE MADE SOME CHANGES IN THE LOOKS OF THE FORUM.  I HAVE CREATED CHILD BOARDS.  NOTHING IS GONE, JUST CLICK ON THE MAIN AREA AND YOU WILL SEE ALL THE OLD THREADS.

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HELP THE FORUM FROM GOING DOWN.


thanks Klaas....this has been a real learning experience I am sure.....but you are a trooper!!.....can you imagine what it will be like for Caylee's trial!! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 08, 2010, 07:46:10 PM
Also earlier today , I read a article that was translated, that another Dutch speaking citizen was in Aruba at gambling tables with Joran.  He and Joran struck up a conversation where Juran revealed he was thinking he would marry only a rich ugly woman, make her pregnant to marry her and then do as he pleased.  He said he wanted to marry a rich ugly woman so she wouldn't spend too much money on herself and would not ask too many questions.

First..was it here I read that article..if not..did anyone else read that article?


This says to me that Joran had no use for women other then money and sex.  Where would he get this idea..from Daddy of course!

this was an interview on Greta last night...the guy in Casino that she interviewed....he said he told the Casino host that Joran was bad news...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 07:46:44 PM
O/T  >>>>>>>>>>>

Re: Ryann Bunnell Crow 23, CA  Missing Since 1/30/09

REMAINS FOUND

http://www.thecalifornian.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100608019/1002/NEWS01/Monterey+County+DA++Ryann+Bunnell+Crow+s+body+found

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7158.new#new

thanks Nut....Rest in Peace Ryann


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 08, 2010, 07:46:58 PM
And just for the record ..I am not thinking that Natalee or Stephany met his criteria of ..just that he held women in disrespect always.  Why in the hell is mother is running to him now...well ..just for looks I suppose.  If she really cared she would have been there a few days ago.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:48:18 PM
omg Renfro disconnected from Jane's show, lol.

power probably went out again on Aruba. lmao!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 08, 2010, 07:48:47 PM
Also earlier today , I read a article that was translated, that another Dutch speaking citizen was in Aruba at gambling tables with Joran.  He and Joran struck up a conversation where Juran revealed he was thinking he would marry only a rich ugly woman, make her pregnant to marry her and then do as he pleased.  He said he wanted to marry a rich ugly woman so she wouldn't spend too much money on herself and would not ask too many questions.

First..was it here I read that article..if not..did anyone else read that article?


This says to me that Joran had no use for women other then money and sex.  Where would he get this idea..from Daddy of course!

this was an interview on Greta last night...the guy in Casino that she interviewed....he said he told the Casino host that Joran was bad news...

TY .. I read a translation..should have just read the English version.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 07:50:36 PM
TIM MILLER BREAKING NEWS:     Joran is being investigated for the 2 COlumbian girls killed in a casino - investigators being sent


OMG!  It sounds like a couple people on here knew already before he told JVM?

SM knew about it over an hour or more ago!  For the lastest news check SCARED MONKEYS FIRST!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 07:51:17 PM
Oh and I have to say, whoever keeps randomly posting the picture of the beach on Aruba and NO ONE standing in front of the camera, is cracking me up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 07:52:36 PM
Julia R is on JVM, they were showing a picture of her on the phone.  Did someone beat her with the ugly stick?

LMFAOOOOOO I love it when they use that photo of her....hahahaaa

broad needs some stool softener and a plunger.

+++

did ya'll hear that Joran says that he was HIT by Stephany FIRST?

NO WAY!!!  I turned the TV off while we were having dinner and getting cought up on our days!  Who said that?? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 07:53:18 PM
Oh and I have to say, whoever keeps randomly posting the picture of the beach on Aruba and NO ONE standing in front of the camera, is cracking me up.

We do that from time to time.  We know there are often many people in the camera, but when it's empty we like to show it off, LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:53:39 PM
And just for the record ..I am not thinking that Natalee or Stephany met his criteria of ..just that he held women in disrespect always.  Why in the hell is mother is running to him now...well ..just for looks I suppose.  If she really cared she would have been there a few days ago.

BBM -HUH?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:54:34 PM
Julia R is on JVM, they were showing a picture of her on the phone.  Did someone beat her with the ugly stick?

LMFAOOOOOO I love it when they use that photo of her....hahahaaa

broad needs some stool softener and a plunger.

+++

did ya'll hear that Joran says that he was HIT by Stephany FIRST?

NO WAY!!!  I turned the TV off while we were having dinner and getting cought up on our days!  Who said that?? 

Jean Ka Ceaser-salad, I think.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 07:57:49 PM
omg Renfro disconnected from Jane's show, lol.

ROTFLMAO.........I love it!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 07:58:19 PM
Julia needs to give it up.  She hung up on JVM, lol.  Worse than Arlene.  But if Joran used the extortion money to get to Peru that just saved him having to kill somebody else to get it!

Aruba still showing its rear end.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 07:59:12 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_73646.php

Google translation:

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06082010_Amigoe1.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06082010_Amigoe2.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06082010_Amigoe3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 07:59:35 PM
This JVM Issue's show format is ridiculous.

30 minutes of the latest breaking news, then 20 minutes of Gary Colemen - then 3 minutes of the main story. WTH!

I mean I'm sorry Coleman is dead, and he was a sorely lil bastard - and it's wrong to speak ill of the dead, but what the heck !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 07:59:42 PM
Everyone is playing into this disinformation campaign being launched right before our very eyes.

Again.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 08:02:07 PM
Julia R is on JVM, they were showing a picture of her on the phone.  Did someone beat her with the ugly stick?

LMFAOOOOOO I love it when they use that photo of her....hahahaaa

broad needs some stool softener and a plunger.

+++

did ya'll hear that Joran says that he was HIT by Stephany FIRST?

NO WAY!!!  I turned the TV off while we were having dinner and getting cought up on our days!  Who said that?? 

Jean Ka Ceaser-salad, I think.

thanks Rob.....she is usually way behind or has incorrect info or makes chit up!!  But hell, it sounds like something he might say...so this time she might be right!!  Give her a star if she is....she don't get many


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 08:02:28 PM
Julia needs to give it up.  She hung up on JVM, lol.  Worse than Arlene.  But if Joran used the extortion money to get to Peru that just saved him having to kill somebody else to get it!

Aruba still showing its rear end.

Precisely. To have Julia Renfro on the air and in print (see this week's NYPost article) bashing Beth repeatedly for the last 5 years, blaming Natalee, smearing the family.. well, it boggles the mind that the Aruba Tourism people don't put a tennis ball in her gob and tell her to stay far away from the media.  What are they thinking, "Lets trash the victims of a crime on Aruba, smear them, and then invite Americans to our friendly island?"

Has anyone been able to locate the large version of the photo of Steve Cohen's press conference outside of KIA with Joran and his parents, celebrating his release from prison? Anyone? I think that's an image we need to share....!!! It says everything you need to know about this case with regard to Aruba....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cece on June 08, 2010, 08:04:35 PM
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/experts-analyze-joran-van-der-sloots-alleged-confession/19508576


What the Experts Hear in van der Sloot Confession
Updated: 7 minutes ago




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: cw618 on June 08, 2010, 08:04:54 PM
remember this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oorI3Hkji1o&feature=player_embedded

i was just reviewing, trying to fig why joran, has went and got his self busted
maybe his fathers death, just sent him over the edge,and he got sloppy,or he was
so full of his self, thinking he would never get caught IDK, just happy to
have this skitzo Ahole off the streets

Van der Sloot Gives Interview After Dad’s Death
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/van-der-sloot-gives-interview-after-dads-death_100325207.html
February 24th, 2010 - 12:38 am ICT by Angela Kaye Mason


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 08:05:44 PM
NG can't stop calling Joran - Judge's son.

Pavlov's dog. The bell rings and she sees the Judge's son.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 08:06:18 PM
Oh and I have to say, whoever keeps randomly posting the picture of the beach on Aruba and NO ONE standing in front of the camera, is cracking me up.

We do that from time to time.  We know there are often many people in the camera, but when it's empty we like to show it off, LOL

Thanks Klaasend, I love it.  When I wasn't able to post over the weekend and only able to read posts, I laughed every single time that picture popped up.  That and the tranny picture of Anita.  Oh and the Llama spit game.  Oh man, you guys are killing me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2010, 08:08:35 PM
When is Julia going to apologize?  Her and scumbagjap slandered Natalee and her family. 

 She kind of did today
Glenda Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:27 am


I apologize,
even though your accusation is not accurate from this post. Bottom line, Beth is not responsible for what happened to Natalee or Stephany.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 08:11:16 PM
These shows never have any news we don't already have. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 08:11:22 PM
When is Julia going to apologize?  Her and scumbagjap slandered Natalee and her family. 

 She kind of did today
Glenda Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:27 am


I apologize,
even though your accusation is not accurate from this post. Bottom line, Beth is not responsible for what happened to Natalee or Stephany.


It was sort of an apology, but the first bit, claiming that the accusation is not accurate is baloney.  The context was discussion of the so-called 'sting' on Joran with money coming from Birmingham, and that money therefore financed Joran's south American murder party. So, the accusation was completely accurate.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 08:12:24 PM
Was Anita working as a prostitute when she ran into Paulus and married him ?

ROTFLMaoooooooooooooooooooo!


Considering Joran was 2 years old when they did marry, that's an interesting concept.  It appears they did not wed until she was already expecting Val. 


It is an interesting concept ... and a reasonable question.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Shan1628 on June 08, 2010, 08:12:52 PM
I believe that he gets a 'high' from the continuous torturing of the Hollaway family...He lives and breathes off Natalee. I think the more that is said about HER; the BETTER he feels.  I don't think there were other murders BEFORE Natalee.  I think she was the first.  He got away with it (so he thinks) and an obsession began.  He remembers how good he felt when he killed her.  He has gotten to taunt and harass her whole family.  He CONTROLS this because he still has her. 

In the midst of all that has happened in the last few weeks, I still find myself unbelievably sad for Beth Hollaway.  She hasn't buried her daughter, no closure.  She hasn't been able to mourn at her grave.  She hasn't been able to see justice done for her daughter.  She hasn't been able to properly mourn birthdays, holidays, etc with her and all the firsts that go along with losing a dear loved one.  Joran knew that.  He CONTROLLED that.  He loved that.  Today, Beth opened her new organization in her daughter's name.  However, due to the extortion attempt she wasn't even able to let this day be "Natalee's Day" because the FBI has prohibited her from speaking (again thanks to this demon). 

This woman has been punished again and again and again by her daughter's murderer.  It is sickening.  Enabled by a mother and father who probably played a role in his crimes, as well.  Enabled by a country who is full of injustice, greed, corruption, etc etc etc etc.  It honestly makes me sick to know that ANY one of us could have the same thing happen.  It makes me SICK to see these 'enablers' all over the internet running down a mother of a murdered child on THEIR soil.  If their country is soooo great, let them go do a crime and see how long their "country" stands by their side.  Not gonna happen.  And with some of the idiots I've seen posting, I actually wouldn't blame Aruba. (at least not that time).

With all that said, I'm extremely upset like the rest of the other monkeys by the new murder(s) of Stefany and possibly the Columbian girls but there is just something about the injustice of Natalee that breaks my heart.  Until she is found, her family will never have proper closure.  It is a pathetic round of cat and mouse.  As for Aruba, I wouldn't be caught dead.  Hell, if I was in an airplane that was crashing, I'd ask the pilot to crash in the ocean before hitting that $hit hole of an "island".

Sorry for my rant, Monkeys.  As happy as I am to see Joran locked up finally, I will hold in my heart a bit of sadness until Natalee is found. 

~Shannon :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 08:13:21 PM
These shows never have any news we don't already have. 

And they are careless with the details for some reason.  If it's possible at all, they will get something wrong.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 08:13:41 PM
Also earlier today , I read a article that was translated, that another Dutch speaking citizen was in Aruba at gambling tables with Joran.  He and Joran struck up a conversation where Juran revealed he was thinking he would marry only a rich ugly woman, make her pregnant to marry her and then do as he pleased.  He said he wanted to marry a rich ugly woman so she wouldn't spend too much money on herself and would not ask too many questions.

First..was it here I read that article..if not..did anyone else read that article?


This says to me that Joran had no use for women other then money and sex.  Where would he get this idea..from Daddy of course!

Like father, like son.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 08:13:43 PM
Oh and I have to say, whoever keeps randomly posting the picture of the beach on Aruba and NO ONE standing in front of the camera, is cracking me up.

We do that from time to time.  We know there are often many people in the camera, but when it's empty we like to show it off, LOL

Yeah....that's our Mascot  lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 08:13:45 PM
NG can't stop calling Joran - Judge's son.

Pavlov's dog. The bell rings and she sees the Judge's son.

OMG .. That really made me laugh..

she is such a dingbat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 08:14:32 PM
NG can't stop calling Joran - Judge's son.

Pavlov's dog. The bell rings and she sees the Judge's son.

At least this time she is tossing it up a little bit. lol

Joran Van der sloot - KILLING MACHINE.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 08:15:34 PM
Julia needs to give it up.  She hung up on JVM, lol.  Worse than Arlene.  But if Joran used the extortion money to get to Peru that just saved him having to kill somebody else to get it!

Aruba still showing its rear end.

Precisely. To have Julia Renfro on the air and in print (see this week's NYPost article) bashing Beth repeatedly for the last 5 years, blaming Natalee, smearing the family.. well, it boggles the mind that the Aruba Tourism people don't put a tennis ball in her gob and tell her to stay far away from the media.  What are they thinking, "Lets trash the victims of a crime on Aruba, smear them, and then invite Americans to our friendly island?"

Has anyone been able to locate the large version of the photo of Steve Cohen's press conference outside of KIA with Joran and his parents, celebrating his release from prison? Anyone? I think that's an image we need to share....!!! It says everything you need to know about this case with regard to Aruba....

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Jorangetsouttajail2.jpg)

This is all I have - this is right before. I have about 1500 in my bucket but don't see that one.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 08:16:33 PM
Ok Jean Casarez is stating she has a new document from Interpol discussing the extortion case with many more details. He contacted Beth to extort money from her in early March of this year, it was his plan and he initiated it - only when he had the money and had been paid, did he admit back that his detail/map that she was buried beneath a house was "a lie".

Wow ... so that accounts for the "false" information wording in the indictment.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on June 08, 2010, 08:16:48 PM
Cap - I don't think anyone is saying that these girls are "killed" - not just yet - they are saying "missing".

I know what you mean though, but just thought I would say that so no one thinks there are any bodies yet.

At least that's what I *think* I'm hearing. LOL

Yea, just like Natalee...will reserve until we know more but this is my train of thought for now:  casino = joran   missing = Joran  Sexually frustrated = Joran Murder = Joran

Cyas a bit later


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 08:17:27 PM
Jean Casarez says the Columbia thing isn't true. I didn't catch it all...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 08:17:41 PM
hello everyone
i have not read all posts yet so i do not know what ou already know or not.
the second person who's house was searched in the netherlands is the house of a student.
his name is not made known.

Jaap says Joran told him where the body of Natalee is.
were you updated on that yet?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 08, 2010, 08:18:44 PM
Hi Rob - I remember you from the early days in 2005!

Thanks for that - it was right about that time.. the image I'm looking for is this one... It's the then-head of Aruba Tourism happily congratulating Joran and his family on his release from prison.  if that doesn't tell it all about the situation down there, about how little they 'get it' .. then nothing else will... Thanks Rob




Julia needs to give it up.  She hung up on JVM, lol.  Worse than Arlene.  But if Joran used the extortion money to get to Peru that just saved him having to kill somebody else to get it!

Aruba still showing its rear end.

Precisely. To have Julia Renfro on the air and in print (see this week's NYPost article) bashing Beth repeatedly for the last 5 years, blaming Natalee, smearing the family.. well, it boggles the mind that the Aruba Tourism people don't put a tennis ball in her gob and tell her to stay far away from the media.  What are they thinking, "Lets trash the victims of a crime on Aruba, smear them, and then invite Americans to our friendly island?"

Has anyone been able to locate the large version of the photo of Steve Cohen's press conference outside of KIA with Joran and his parents, celebrating his release from prison? Anyone? I think that's an image we need to share....!!! It says everything you need to know about this case with regard to Aruba....

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Jorangetsouttajail2.jpg)

This is all I have - this is right before. I have about 1500 in my bucket but don't see that one.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 08:19:12 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 08, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
Julia needs to give it up.  She hung up on JVM, lol.  Worse than Arlene.  But if Joran used the extortion money to get to Peru that just saved him having to kill somebody else to get it!

Aruba still showing its rear end.

Precisely. To have Julia Renfro on the air and in print (see this week's NYPost article) bashing Beth repeatedly for the last 5 years, blaming Natalee, smearing the family.. well, it boggles the mind that the Aruba Tourism people don't put a tennis ball in her gob and tell her to stay far away from the media.  What are they thinking, "Lets trash the victims of a crime on Aruba, smear them, and then invite Americans to our friendly island?"

Has anyone been able to locate the large version of the photo of Steve Cohen's press conference outside of KIA with Joran and his parents, celebrating his release from prison? Anyone? I think that's an image we need to share....!!! It says everything you need to know about this case with regard to Aruba....

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Jorangetsouttajail2.jpg)

This is all I have - this is right before. I have about 1500 in my bucket but don't see that one.

OMG It looks like the guy behind Paulus has his hand down Paulus's pants


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 08:21:20 PM
today it was on the news police in colombia is investigating the disappearance of 2 girls when joran was over there.
they were in the same casino where he was.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 08:21:55 PM
I'm sure when they search Joran's computer he will have about two dozen different stories of what happened to Natalee.

One of those stories will be the truth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 08:23:35 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.

I heard that and I was screaming at the TV! The guy that was talking to her did not say that...(or I did not hear him say those words.)
Only LE and Joran know if that is true. We have not seen the tapes...Nancy is speculating.....again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 08:24:15 PM
TexasRick - I think this is what you are looking for:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/CohenPC1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/CohenOpensDoor.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/CohenPC2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 08:24:33 PM
Colombia, This is like the monkey bones out of Venezuela.

and Anita going to streighten things out for Joran is like a horror movie come true.
Hilary is probably in on it too.
She is the weakest woman I know.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 08:25:00 PM
Julia needs to give it up.  She hung up on JVM, lol.  Worse than Arlene.  But if Joran used the extortion money to get to Peru that just saved him having to kill somebody else to get it!

Aruba still showing its rear end.

Precisely. To have Julia Renfro on the air and in print (see this week's NYPost article) bashing Beth repeatedly for the last 5 years, blaming Natalee, smearing the family.. well, it boggles the mind that the Aruba Tourism people don't put a tennis ball in her gob and tell her to stay far away from the media.  What are they thinking, "Lets trash the victims of a crime on Aruba, smear them, and then invite Americans to our friendly island?"

Has anyone been able to locate the large version of the photo of Steve Cohen's press conference outside of KIA with Joran and his parents, celebrating his release from prison? Anyone? I think that's an image we need to share....!!! It says everything you need to know about this case with regard to Aruba....

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Jorangetsouttajail2.jpg)

This is all I have - this is right before. I have about 1500 in my bucket but don't see that one.

Richie Koch

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/RichieKock/RichieKock03.jpg)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/RichieKock/RichieKock04.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: JA on June 08, 2010, 08:25:06 PM
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/experts-analyze-joran-van-der-sloots-alleged-confession/19508576


What the Experts Hear in van der Sloot Confession
Updated: 7 minutes ago




That was a good article.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 08:25:48 PM
Steve: Murder well done, Papa!



(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/steve.png)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Searching on June 08, 2010, 08:26:21 PM
Julia needs to give it up.  She hung up on JVM, lol.  Worse than Arlene.  But if Joran used the extortion money to get to Peru that just saved him having to kill somebody else to get it!

Aruba still showing its rear end.

Precisely. To have Julia Renfro on the air and in print (see this week's NYPost article) bashing Beth repeatedly for the last 5 years, blaming Natalee, smearing the family.. well, it boggles the mind that the Aruba Tourism people don't put a tennis ball in her gob and tell her to stay far away from the media.  What are they thinking, "Lets trash the victims of a crime on Aruba, smear them, and then invite Americans to our friendly island?"

Has anyone been able to locate the large version of the photo of Steve Cohen's press conference outside of KIA with Joran and his parents, celebrating his release from prison? Anyone? I think that's an image we need to share....!!! It says everything you need to know about this case with regard to Aruba....

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Jorangetsouttajail2.jpg)

This is all I have - this is right before. I have about 1500 in my bucket but don't see that one.

OMG It looks like the guy behind Paulus has his hand down Paulus's pants

Kinda gives new meaning to hand in someones pocket eh?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 08:27:36 PM
Jean Casarez says the Columbia thing isn't true. I didn't catch it all...

What she said is they can't get verification on it.  I think we are SO ahead of the curve on most things in this case they can't keep up.  Tim told them about it and I KNOW Tim knows what he is talking about.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 08:28:35 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_73646.php

Google translation:

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06082010_Amigoe1.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06082010_Amigoe2.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/06082010_Amigoe3.jpg)

And...hold the phone here for a minute!

Please check me on this, but that last paragraph refers to "last Sunday" in relation to the picture of rocks/coral the couple snorkeling on vacation took, right?

WTH?

If that's their denial then it is surely not an accurate denial at this time, right?

So....is Dave on his way there for a reason and nobody is telling yet?  I'm confused again, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 08:28:36 PM
He may be just rying to zip Paulus pants!  We all know how fond of airing things out Paulus was.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 08:28:44 PM
Jean Casarez says the Columbia thing isn't true. I didn't catch it all...

What she said is they can't get verification on it.  I think we are SO ahead of the curve on most things in this case they can't keep up.  Tim told them about it and I KNOW Tim knows what he is talking about.

It was all over the Peruvian news for a reason.  They would have no reason to make it up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 08:28:51 PM
Spelled it wrong...s/b Richie Kock

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/RichieKock/RichieKock29.jpg)

Last I checked he was in St. Maarten iirc

My favorite, lol

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/RichieKock/RichieKockAnitaVDS01.jpg)

San has a much better version of it though!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 08:30:05 PM
Nevermind, I read it again.

:)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 08:30:07 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.

I heard that and I was screaming at the TV! The guy that was talking to her did not say that...(or I did not hear him say those words.)
Only LE and Joran know if that is true. We have not seen the tapes...Nancy is speculating.....again.

Nancy didn't say it.  She asked the question.  Someone called in and asked Nancy that question and she said to the woman that's a very astute question and the she asked the person on her show.  They said he had the same clothes on when they first arrived at the hotel.  Now whether it is true or not I don't know but someone said it and it wasn't Nancy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 08:30:41 PM
hello everyone
i have not read all posts yet so i do not know what ou already know or not.
the second person who's house was searched in the netherlands is the house of a student.
his name is not made known.

Jaap says Joran told him where the body of Natalee is.
were you updated on that yet?

do you think it was it one of the guys he lived with that made life shear hell for the neighbors?

I still have this lying around - lol

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/INOANGL1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 08, 2010, 08:30:52 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.

I heard that and I was screaming at the TV! The guy that was talking to her did not say that...(or I did not hear him say those words.)
Only LE and Joran know if that is true. We have not seen the tapes...Nancy is speculating.....again.

She gets things SO SCREWED UP - I really don't see how she keeps that job. If you go back through all the transcripts you will see SO MANY mistakes on all these cases.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 08:31:54 PM
I have never seen such a jumble of information and disinformation!  Always happens around Joran and is deliberate to muddy the waters and cloud things.

But the bottom line is Peru has Joran completely with or without any confession.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 08:32:21 PM

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/RichieKock/RichieKock04.jpg)

right we found out it was Kock... that was a really old pic - really old.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 08:34:01 PM
The voluntary use of marijauna is a mitigating factor.  It can help you when you get before a judge.

In Peru you are eligible for parole after serving one third.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 08:34:32 PM


Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: texasmom on June 08, 2010, 08:35:24 PM
Sorry everyone, answered a question that wasn't being asked!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 08, 2010, 08:35:27 PM


Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.



I can see that...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 08, 2010, 08:35:28 PM
And just for the record ..I am not thinking that Natalee or Stephany met his criteria of ..just that he held women in disrespect always.  Why in the hell is mother is running to him now...well ..just for looks I suppose.  If she really cared she would have been there a few days ago.

BBM -HUH?
Rob..this was an interview with a Dutchman who was in Aruba at the same table with Joran.  Well, before Stephany was murdered.   He said Joran said that he wanted to marry an UGLY  rich womant so she would have to marry him..and he could carry on his lifestyle with her money.   This was not someone he recently met in Peru.

I am saying that neither Natalee or Stephany met his criteria because they were not ugly.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 08:36:58 PM
The family of Stephany Flores seemed to know about her checking on information about Natalee all along.  They said from the get-go that she died trying to get justice for Natalee as though they already knew this.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 08:37:34 PM
is she trying to go to the bathroom??

i thought only male dogs lifted their legs ?



and, NO im not sorry for saying this


i hate her



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: yuknomenot on June 08, 2010, 08:37:55 PM
On Nancy it was said that Joran claimed he had been smoking pot and they said in Peru that is a mitigating factor that will reduce his sentence.  I will wait for verification from another source I think.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 08:38:31 PM


Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.



Didn't her father say something about giving her $1000 to buy a laptop?  Wonder if Joran lured her to his room saying he would sell her his laptop for cheap? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 08:39:12 PM
LOL
Hi Rob
I'm gonna check the newspaper.
be right back
but im a slowwww typer


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 08:39:55 PM


Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.



my thoughts the entire time, but I'm not gonna slammmmm a murder victim, but this is what happened.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Shan1628 on June 08, 2010, 08:40:10 PM


Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.



I'm not offended and I agree.  I think Joran befriended her and as friends she thought she was going to his hotel room to smoke pot.  I read somewhere that they played together at the same table for a few nights prior, so it wasn't like they had JUST met.  Maybe someone else knows if they played poker together the night prior????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Edward on June 08, 2010, 08:41:32 PM
I have never seen such a jumble of information and disinformation!  Always happens around Joran and is deliberate to muddy the waters and cloud things.

But the bottom line is Peru has Joran completely with or without any confession.

It is being done on purpose just like with Aruba..

The DUTCH learned how to make disinformation work for them from the Germans years ago.
They are already working a plan.
 The intention will be to create an environment that will not allow for Joran to receive a fair trial in Peru. Then they will play politics..
Our News and Everyone needs to be quiet and not react to any of the information coming out of various locations at the moment..
Although I agree it will be near impossible to get N.G. to shut up for a minute.
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 08:42:38 PM
And just for the record ..I am not thinking that Natalee or Stephany met his criteria of ..just that he held women in disrespect always.  Why in the hell is mother is running to him now...well ..just for looks I suppose.  If she really cared she would have been there a few days ago.

BBM -HUH?
Rob..this was an interview with a Dutchman who was in Aruba at the same table with Joran.  Well, before Stephany was murdered.   He said Joran said that he wanted to marry an UGLY  rich womant so she would have to marry him..and he could carry on his lifestyle with her money.   This was not someone he recently met in Peru.

I am saying that neither Natalee or Stephany met his criteria because they were not ugly.   

umm, ok. There's an old joke - "I'm gonna marry a woman with ten million dollars and six months to live". With Joran you can take that literally.

I somehow don't see that as completely honest, coming from Joran. lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 08:43:54 PM
hello everyone
i have not read all posts yet so i do not know what ou already know or not.
the second person who's house was searched in the netherlands is the house of a student.
his name is not made known.

Jaap says Joran told him where the body of Natalee is.
were you updated on that yet?

do you think it was it one of the guys he lived with that made life shear hell for the neighbors?

I still have this lying around - lol

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/INOANGL1.jpg)

Hey, that's where I bought MY car LOL.  Are you from the Burgh?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 08:47:57 PM
The part where Joran allegedly says - 'She intruded into my private life' - sort rings horribly in my mind since her jeans were off.... what does he say that is? that's not an intrusion?

seems like her private "life" (meaning) "her body" was somehow violated, and not to forget or diminish, he killed her - how much more intrusion can there possibly be?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 08:48:02 PM
Police keeps the identity of the student a secret.
He lives in Valkenburg, is the only thing the article says.
Peter R. de Vries was on some show last night and he said Joran tried to borrow money from everyone.
Told people his wallet was stolen en he was desperate for money.
Police has a chatsession where Joran says this to a friend, "because if he does not get
his hands on some money soon he can not stay in Peru".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 08:49:59 PM
There is a  Dr. on Nancy Grace and he said it takes blunt force plus twisting to break a neck.  He said anytime he has seen a broken neck it was a car accident or fall.  He said he thinks Joran has broken someone's neck before.

Another Doctor Patricia Saunders said Joran is a stone cold psychopath.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 08:50:27 PM

Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.


Quoting my own post at the risk of being mocked, I just want to clarify...

I am in no way judging this young lady nor do I think it makes her a bad person.  I think it makes her about 21 years old.

Furthermore, it is no more an invitation to, nor a justification for, murder. 

Just because she was in his hotel room does not mean she wanted to nor was obligated to have sex with him.  She had every right to say no without being murdered, whether she'd smoked with him or not.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 08:51:43 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.

thanks San...I have been wondering about this all along!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 08:52:44 PM
I`m still waiting for someone to ring the Kalpoe`s bells up.

( If they find the girl they will see that sh. )

Of course - they saw it. They knew. They have always known.

Anybody who makes them out to be victims in this... is a clown.

Do you think people go extra easy on them because they look feminine

and malnourished? Are they off limits like the holy cow?

Maybe people want to take care of the worst first.

They will never be off my radar, though.

Your day is coming Dirt-pock and Sack-o-sheet.

I still have my big hairy eyeball on you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 08:52:47 PM
Police keeps the identity of the student a secret.
He lives in Valkenburg, is the only thing the article says.
Peter R. de Vries was on some show last night and he said Joran tried to borrow money from everyone.
Told people his wallet was stolen en he was desperate for money.
Police has a chatsession where Joran says this to a friend, "because if he does not get
his hands on some money soon he can not stay in Peru".


whoo hooo! There's your robbery motive, Peru!! 

Let him take back his stinkin' confession.  Sentence him to life for robbery + murder.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 08:53:15 PM
Joran knows the whole story of what they have on him.  He knows that they found DNA under her nails.  He is playing them.  They are working the system as we speak.  He confession plus marijauna use might help reduce his sentence.

This is only the beginning of what we are seeing.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 08:53:35 PM
The part where Joran allegedly says - 'She intruded into my private life' - sort rings horribly in my mind since her jeans were off.... what does he say that is? that's not an intrusion?

seems like her private "life" (meaning) "her body" was somehow violated, and not to forget or diminish, he killed her - how much more intrusion can there possibly be?

Since he is "entitled" as mom Anita taught him he is and reinforced that by giving into whatever tantrum he threw, no one's rights matter but his Rob. Even today she still squeals foul when his rights are impacted by the horrible crimes he's committed. I am unsure if he has a humane respect for anyone else's rights - or she either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tater on June 08, 2010, 08:54:51 PM
I'm sitting here watching NG and they are going on and on about a broken neck.Good grief!!! I've watched enough movies to have an idea of how to do it.How much bigger was he than her?Nancy just acts ignorant or something...:(  It seems the more I watch her,the more crap I hear.I hope so much that this case doesn't elevate to the heights that Natalee did.He's guilty and that's that.Throw him into the general population and let him get by the best way he knows how.Poor baby,ugh..Broke down and cried?I feel like puking now..Who cares? I want him to cry everyday for the rest of his miserable life!!

Oh!Hi Monkeys!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 08:55:01 PM

Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.


Quoting my own post at the risk of being mocked, I just want to clarify...

I am in no way judging this young lady nor do I think it makes her a bad person.  I think it makes her about 21 years old.

Furthermore, it is no more an invitation to, nor a justification for, murder. 

Just because she was in his hotel room does not mean she wanted to nor was obligated to have sex with him.  She had every right to say no without being murdered, whether she'd smoked with him or not.

JMO


I don't have a problem with the suggestion except I don't know why she would need to go to his room.  She has money. It is my understanding that marijuana is legal in Peru (in small amounts).  So why bother going to a hotel room 7 miles away? 

http://matadornights.com/guide-to-smoking-pot-around-the-world/

PERU: Possession of up to 8 grams (0.28 oz) of marijuana is legal as long as one isn’t in possession of another drug. However, I’ve read some first hand accounts about the police being fairly strict. Caution is urged.

CHILE: Personal use of marijuana in small quantities on a private place is not against the law. More than one person using it at the same place is considered as a group and thus is considered illegal.

COLOMBIA: Possession of small quantities of all drugs legal; permitted “personal dose” for marijuana is 20 grams.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 08:55:01 PM
Jaap says Joran confessed to him where he left Natalees body: at Bubali Pond, a bird reservate on Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 08:56:04 PM
Spelled it wrong...s/b Richie Kock

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/RichieKock/RichieKock29.jpg)

Last I checked he was in St. Maarten iirc

My favorite, lol

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/RichieKock/RichieKockAnitaVDS01.jpg)

San has a much better version of it though!  LOL

OHMYGAWD!  I just spit all over myself!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Curly on June 08, 2010, 08:57:13 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.

thanks San...I have been wondering about this all along!!

They still haven't released this portion of the video, so how the reporter knows this is anyone's guess.
Additionally, the pot bs, since when does pot do anything but give you the munchies?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 08:58:32 PM
Michael Griffith said tell the DEA to contact the Peruvian police and tell them to ask about Natalee.  Nancy is having a senator or someone political on her show tomorrow and Michael Griffith told Nancy to tell her guest that and Nancy said she would tell him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: ozziesmom on June 08, 2010, 08:58:38 PM
Police keeps the identity of the student a secret.
He lives in Valkenburg, is the only thing the article says.
Peter R. de Vries was on some show last night and he said Joran tried to borrow money from everyone.
Told people his wallet was stolen en he was desperate for money.
Police has a chatsession where Joran says this to a friend, "because if he does not get
his hands on some money soon he can not stay in Peru".


whoo hooo! There's your robbery motive, Peru!! 

Let him take back his stinkin' confession.  Sentence him to life for robbery + murder.


Can someone tell me where the money went that Stefany won? plus the 1,000 her dad gave her (not sure if that was included with her winnings) I read that he took a cab to Chili for $635
if he had no money I'm guessing it was her money that was missing...so isn.t that robbery???? Give him LIFE


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Dragnet on June 08, 2010, 08:58:45 PM
I`m still waiting for someone to ring the Kalpoe`s bells up.

( If they find the girl they will see that sh. )

Of course - they saw it. They knew. They have always known.

Anybody who makes them out to be victims in this... is a clown.

Do you think people go extra easy on them because they look feminine

and malnourished? Are they off limits like the holy cow?

Maybe people want to take care of the worst first.

They will never be off my radar, though.

Your day is coming Dirt-pock and Sack-o-sheet.

I still have my big hairy eyeball on you.

I'll give ya 20 bucks if you call them up on the phone and ask them in a deep gruff voice.  "What's your favorite scary movie?"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Ono on June 08, 2010, 08:58:59 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes... and it was interesting to note -

The topic was the Aruban cover up...

and Julia, or as I like to call her the `drunken whore` said:

There was no evidence of a... (pause)  crime.

She was off topic. She must have slogans printed on 3x5 cards in front of her
and she keeps repeating them like a dang parrot.


When you answer off topic... you have actually answered the question.

A none answer - is your answer. I find it amazing that she has watched where
these same tactics have landed Joran - yet she continues to follow him over
the cliff.

THANK YOU CARPE!  

Exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't put the words together!  She makes me sooooo freakin' mad!

I would be willing to bet she was one of the dogs that was paid off to keep quiet about Joran and Natalee.  I think this old empty vessel was involved to the degree that the Kalpoes are, perhaps more.  She was probably paid more to keep quiet and to come to all the blogs and spread rancid venom.

I'm of the same opinion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 08:59:00 PM
Also earlier today , I read a article that was translated, that another Dutch speaking citizen was in Aruba at gambling tables with Joran.  He and Joran struck up a conversation where Juran revealed he was thinking he would marry only a rich ugly woman, make her pregnant to marry her and then do as he pleased.  He said he wanted to marry a rich ugly woman so she wouldn't spend too much money on herself and would not ask too many questions.

First..was it here I read that article..if not..did anyone else read that article?


This says to me that Joran had no use for women other then money and sex.  Where would he get this idea..from Daddy of course!
Damn, too bad Julia is already married and not rich.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 09:00:25 PM

Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.


Quoting my own post at the risk of being mocked, I just want to clarify...

I am in no way judging this young lady nor do I think it makes her a bad person.  I think it makes her about 21 years old.

Furthermore, it is no more an invitation to, nor a justification for, murder. 

Just because she was in his hotel room does not mean she wanted to nor was obligated to have sex with him.  She had every right to say no without being murdered, whether she'd smoked with him or not.

JMO


Lifesong, I don't think anyone would mock you, not at all. I guess, I think that sometimes other boards may jump on something and start to blame the victim. They often have a disconnect about what a victim truly is.

but I have thought that's what happened. I just didn't say it when it was on my mind - not because I thought it was wrong, just didn't want someone to take my post the wromng way - lord know I make enough of those already, lol < smiles >


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:00:40 PM


Forgive me for saying this if it offends, but I think she went to his room to smoke pot.



my thoughts the entire time, but I'm not gonna slammmmm a murder victim, but this is what happened.


Rob....stop that little bitty tiny I can't see it type!  LOL   I don't think that slamming her....I also think she and joran were either messing around or thinking about it.  It has been mentioned several times she was confused about her sexuality....she might have been testing it...  JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:00:44 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.

thanks San...I have been wondering about this all along!!

They still haven't released this portion of the video, so how the reporter knows this is anyone's guess.

Additionally, the pot bs, since when does pot do anything but give you the munchies?

We all agree with that but every countries law is different and apparently it makes a difference in Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 09:01:52 PM

OMG, Klaas!!  You just posted a link to "smoking pot around the world"!    lol lol

I never saw that coming!


You do make good points though.  I didn't know it was legal there.  I do think the fact that she had money wouldn't necessarily mean she would want to buy her own marijuana, but it might mean that she would have no need to buy a laptop on the cheap.  If his pot was in the hotel and not on him, well, I just think she might have gone there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:01:54 PM
Joy Behar is talking to Jean Casarez and she is talking about the case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 09:02:16 PM
MisGivings.... that story was in the newspaper over here too.
And Joran has no compassion with anyone but himself.
And he has an anxiety problem
He needed money desperately
1+1+1=3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 09:02:45 PM
I`m still waiting for someone to ring the Kalpoe`s bells up.

( If they find the girl they will see that sh. )

Of course - they saw it. They knew. They have always known.

Anybody who makes them out to be victims in this... is a clown.

Do you think people go extra easy on them because they look feminine

and malnourished? Are they off limits like the holy cow?

Maybe people want to take care of the worst first.

They will never be off my radar, though.

Your day is coming Dirt-pock and Sack-o-sheet.

I still have my big hairy eyeball on you.

I'll give ya 20 bucks if you call them up on the phone and ask them in a deep gruff voice.  "What's your favorite scary movie?"

ROFL!

Don`t tempt me - I`m just crazy enough to do it. Ask Rob. He knows how I roll.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:04:12 PM
I`m still waiting for someone to ring the Kalpoe`s bells up.

( If they find the girl they will see that sh. )

Of course - they saw it. They knew. They have always known.

Anybody who makes them out to be victims in this... is a clown.

Do you think people go extra easy on them because they look feminine

and malnourished? Are they off limits like the holy cow?

Maybe people want to take care of the worst first.

They will never be off my radar, though.

Your day is coming Dirt-pock and Sack-o-sheet.

I still have my big hairy eyeball on you.

Ok, I give up.....I am not going to put on yet another clean tee shirt....I am going to just sit here in this spitty one....thanks to you and Rob!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 09:04:22 PM
Joran knows the whole story of what they have on him.  He knows that they found DNA under her nails.  He is playing them.  They are working the system as we speak.  He confession plus marijauna use might help reduce his sentence.

This is only the beginning of what we are seeing.



you're brilliant!

you're sooo right... this is all to get his story out there, nothing more. Never mind that the evidence will say something entirely different.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:05:15 PM
Jean Casarez said his story although he is confessing he is also throwing mitigating factors in there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 09:05:48 PM
did anyone post this?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/1LOCK.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:06:21 PM
Joran knows the whole story of what they have on him.  He knows that they found DNA under her nails.  He is playing them.  They are working the system as we speak.  He confession plus marijauna use might help reduce his sentence.

This is only the beginning of what we are seeing.

and WHO filled him in on what he should say and do to get a reduced sentence??...someone sure as hell did..someone who knows the ins and outs of Peruvian law..and I still believe he will go to the Netherlands to serve his time...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 09:06:21 PM
I dont now where you get it that Joran had no money on him when he was arrested.
On television we saw him count his money when he was in the policestation, to be taken in custody


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 09:06:56 PM
Joran knows the whole story of what they have on him.  He knows that they found DNA under her nails.  He is playing them.  They are working the system as we speak.  He confession plus marijauna use might help reduce his sentence.

This is only the beginning of what we are seeing.



you're brilliant!

you're sooo right... this is all to get his story out there, nothing more. Never mind that the evidence will say something entirely different.

I bet the video shows he went for coffee in that red striped shirt, blowing his whole story even further.

And by 'I bet', I mean 'I hope', lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 09:07:46 PM
Linda Allison on LKL right now


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:08:42 PM
I'm sitting here watching NG and they are going on and on about a broken neck.Good grief!!! I've watched enough movies to have an idea of how to do it.How much bigger was he than her?Nancy just acts ignorant or something...:(  It seems the more I watch her,the more crap I hear.I hope so much that this case doesn't elevate to the heights that Natalee did.He's guilty and that's that.Throw him into the general population and let him get by the best way he knows how.Poor baby,ugh..Broke down and cried?I feel like puking now..Who cares? I want him to cry everyday for the rest of his miserable life!!

Oh!Hi Monkeys!!!

Hi tater!  Good to see you!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 09:08:52 PM

OMG, Klaas!!  You just posted a link to "smoking pot around the world"!    lol lol

I never saw that coming!


You do make good points though.  I didn't know it was legal there.  I do think the fact that she had money wouldn't necessarily mean she would want to buy her own marijuana, but it might mean that she would have no need to buy a laptop on the cheap.  If his pot was in the hotel and not on him, well, I just think she might have gone there.

I don't think she went to the room for sex, she went there to either get money from Joran or purchase something from Joran. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 09:09:05 PM
as to this moment there is no traitee (is this the word) with Peru that prisoners can be sent to holland
to do their sentence here.
better keep him in Peru


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 09:09:48 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/krustyheyhSey-1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:10:03 PM
Mickey Sherman said you get less time if you kill out of anger.  It makes no sense to him.  He said he didn't do it for being a nice guy.

He said everything should had time to his sentence.  Even him breathing...LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thecuz on June 08, 2010, 09:10:12 PM
thanks klaas......we had a storm here that knocked off the upper tier of cable channels so when i could not get to the natalee thread i thought how am i going to get news? sounds like i am not missing too much coming from the tv shows. i did see the et piece.
hi ya monkeys!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:10:25 PM
On Nancy Grace they said when Joran went for coffee he was wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he first went to the hotel with Stephany.

thanks San...I have been wondering about this all along!!

They still haven't released this portion of the video, so how the reporter knows this is anyone's guess.
Additionally, the pot bs, since when does pot do anything but give you the munchies?

Hi curly.....thanks for clarifying this......I still want to know though.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: imnoangel on June 08, 2010, 09:10:29 PM
I agree. they went to the room to smoke pot or have sex or do both.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on June 08, 2010, 09:10:30 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/dsff.png)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:11:12 PM
Mickey Sherman said he doesn't think this will lead to a break in the Holloway case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: robots on June 08, 2010, 09:11:33 PM
BINGO


I`m still waiting for someone to ring the Kalpoe`s bells up.

( If they find the girl they will see that sh. )

Of course - they saw it. They knew. They have always known.

Anybody who makes them out to be victims in this... is a clown.

Do you think people go extra easy on them because they look feminine

and malnourished? Are they off limits like the holy cow?

Maybe people want to take care of the worst first.

They will never be off my radar, though.

Your day is coming Dirt-pock and Sack-o-sheet.

I still have my big hairy eyeball on you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:13:16 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes... and it was interesting to note -

The topic was the Aruban cover up...

and Julia, or as I like to call her the `drunken whore` said:

There was no evidence of a... (pause)  crime.

She was off topic. She must have slogans printed on 3x5 cards in front of her
and she keeps repeating them like a dang parrot.


When you answer off topic... you have actually answered the question.

A none answer - is your answer. I find it amazing that she has watched where
these same tactics have landed Joran - yet she continues to follow him over
the cliff.

THANK YOU CARPE!  

Exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't put the words together!  She makes me sooooo freakin' mad!

I would be willing to bet she was one of the dogs that was paid off to keep quiet about Joran and Natalee.  I think this old empty vessel was involved to the degree that the Kalpoes are, perhaps more.  She was probably paid more to keep quiet and to come to all the blogs and spread rancid venom.

I'm of the same opinion.

DITTO....I still wish Jug had slapped the crap outta her when he had the chance!!  If I ever get the chance you can bet you azz I will and I'll have witnesses to  prove she hit me first! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tater on June 08, 2010, 09:13:20 PM
I'm sitting here watching NG and they are going on and on about a broken neck.Good grief!!! I've watched enough movies to have an idea of how to do it.How much bigger was he than her?Nancy just acts ignorant or something...:(  It seems the more I watch her,the more crap I hear.I hope so much that this case doesn't elevate to the heights that Natalee did.He's guilty and that's that.Throw him into the general population and let him get by the best way he knows how.Poor baby,ugh..Broke down and cried?I feel like puking now..Who cares? I want him to cry everyday for the rest of his miserable life!!

Oh!Hi Monkeys!!!

Hi tater!  Good to see you!!


Hi sweet Sunny!!Always good to see you too!Hugs


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on June 08, 2010, 09:13:36 PM
Also earlier today , I read a article that was translated, that another Dutch speaking citizen was in Aruba at gambling tables with Joran.  He and Joran struck up a conversation where Juran revealed he was thinking he would marry only a rich ugly woman, make her pregnant to marry her and then do as he pleased.  He said he wanted to marry a rich ugly woman so she wouldn't spend too much money on herself and would not ask too many questions.

First..was it here I read that article..if not..did anyone else read that article?

This says to me that Joran had no use for women other then money and sex.  Where would he get this idea..from Daddy of course!
Damn, too bad Julia is already married and not rich.

Yes it was.  I read that as well and laughed at the throught that he was following his father's footsteps in wife choosing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 09:17:14 PM
It was probably as simply as this, well, it could be.

It was 5 am, gambling all nite and that was over. Joran said, hey wanna smoke a joint?

and Stephany may have said yes, and I'll give you a ride to your hotel, then Joran said why don't we just smoke in my room.

It may not be very complicated at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:17:19 PM
did anyone post this?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/1LOCK.gif)

I tried twice....thanks Rob.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:17:42 PM
Beotch Julia on JVM arguing with talking heads.....insisting NO cover-up by Aruba authorities

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yes... and it was interesting to note -

The topic was the Aruban cover up...

and Julia, or as I like to call her the `drunken whore` said:

There was no evidence of a... (pause)  crime.

She was off topic. She must have slogans printed on 3x5 cards in front of her
and she keeps repeating them like a dang parrot.


When you answer off topic... you have actually answered the question.

A none answer - is your answer. I find it amazing that she has watched where
these same tactics have landed Joran - yet she continues to follow him over
the cliff.

THANK YOU CARPE!  

Exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't put the words together!  She makes me sooooo freakin' mad!

I would be willing to bet she was one of the dogs that was paid off to keep quiet about Joran and Natalee.  I think this old empty vessel was involved to the degree that the Kalpoes are, perhaps more.  She was probably paid more to keep quiet and to come to all the blogs and spread rancid venom.

I'm of the same opinion.

DITTO....I still wish Jug had slapped the crap outta her when he had the chance!!  If I ever get the chance you can bet you azz I will and I'll have witnesses to  prove she hit me first! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 09:18:35 PM

Don`t tempt me - I`m just crazy enough to do it. Ask Rob. He knows how I roll.

when you called that hotel on Aruba I busted a gasket. One of the funniest things I have ever heard.

lmao just thinking about it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 09:19:35 PM
Every time I see or hear TACO STEIN, I get this picture in my head: lolol



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/TacoStein.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
Taco Stein was just on LKL - he's no friend of Natalee, imo.  I can't really give a recap as I'm multitasking here, lol, but he pretty much sucked, as expected.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MisGivings on June 08, 2010, 09:20:09 PM
Joran knows the whole story of what they have on him.  He knows that they found DNA under her nails.  He is playing them.  They are working the system as we speak.  He confession plus marijauna use might help reduce his sentence.

This is only the beginning of what we are seeing.


Hmmm, I don't recall anyone saying there was any indication of any marijauna found in the room or on his person?
Does he really think this will fly?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 09:20:22 PM
TJ Ward on Larry King now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thecuz on June 08, 2010, 09:20:50 PM
Mickey Sherman said you get less time if you kill out of anger.  It makes no sense to him.  He said he didn't do it for being a nice guy.

He said everything should had time to his sentence.  Even him breathing...LOL


i agree with that!   imo.....the whole confession is joran trying for reduced sentence......the whole story sounds like a bunch of crap to me....of course what do you expect from s#$thead?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 09:20:59 PM
After watching NG and JVM, a couple of notes from both shows.

(1) Tim Miller confirmed Colombia story. Then, bolstered it by citing a related phone call to Jossy, while in his office.
(2) Marijuana use cited
(3) Confirmation that Joran did indeed travel to Colombia, prior to arriving in Peru
(4) NG caller asked "What clothes was he wearing when he went to get coffee?" Answer was same clothes as entering at 5am with SF.
(5) International lawyer (who said he had lots of experience and Peru prisons were horrible) mentioned to convey to Holloways that they could approach Peruvian consulate to accept lighter sentence for Joran, in exchange for info about NH/Aruba. The point being that they may want to seek international law expert to explore their rights as it sound like they do have some.
(6) Aruba would like to see contents of JVDS laptop for Aruban case purposes. I found this odd/suspicious..

Next, a couple of my own thoughts/observations:

(1) Joran is trying to angle strategy. (a) marijuana use. (b) confession, then retraction. (c) manslaughter, instead of murder. (d) killing out of anger, instead of premeditation.
(2) Wonder if reason for entering room  could have been as simple as "Hey, want to smoke a joint at my place"
(3) Someone on NG suggested a rough sexual scenario that led to death. Have never heard that theory before, true or not.
(4) Linda Allison seems very composed, at peace, and very classy. Do others feel the same?
(5) Passport trace needs to be done on Joran. I think atrail and story can definitely be pieced together.
(6) As someone else suggested pages back, they likely did not sleep. Arrival at 5AM (late-night lifestyle), they should have slept in until early afternoon. 8AM action implies to me that no sleep occurred. Add in the taxi driver stating that he smoked and slept during cab ride.


OK. Just wanted to put it out there before forgetting....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on June 08, 2010, 09:21:08 PM
thanks klaas......we had a storm here that knocked off the upper tier of cable channels so when i could not get to the natalee thread i thought how am i going to get news? sounds like i am not missing too much coming from the tv shows. i did see the et piece.
hi ya monkeys!

Hi Cuz - good to see you here. TJ Ward is on LKL right now stating how the PM of Aruba "hampered" Natalee's case from the beginning.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:21:16 PM
Rita Crosby said she has been in Peru and the Peruvian authorities do not fool around.

Pat Brown just said he a psychopath and he is playing the game the best to his ability.  She thinks Joran will get 15 years and he will be out when he is 30.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:22:03 PM
thanks klaas......we had a storm here that knocked off the upper tier of cable channels so when i could not get to the natalee thread i thought how am i going to get news? sounds like i am not missing too much coming from the tv shows. i did see the et piece.
hi ya monkeys!

hi ya CUZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  So good to see ya!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Anna on June 08, 2010, 09:23:02 PM
So are Tim Miller and Dave Holloway in Aruba to search the map Joran gave to Jaap?  Or is Aruba doing that?  Who is doing the two new searches, TES/Dave or Aruban officials?  Both?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 09:23:31 PM
Rita Crosby said she has been in Peru and the Peruvian authorities do not fool around.

Pat Brown just said he a psychopath and he is playing the game the best to his ability.  She thinks Joran will get 15 years and he will be out when he is 30.

He won't live that long in Peruvian prison, she should know that if she's a profiler.  Imo, of course.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2010, 09:23:50 PM
Candice Delong - former FBI profiler calls him Johan and says he's either really tall or everyone else is reaaaalllly short.

She's on with TJ on LKL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on June 08, 2010, 09:23:59 PM
Mickey Sherman said you get less time if you kill out of anger.  It makes no sense to him.  He said he didn't do it for being a nice guy.

He said everything should had time to his sentence.  Even him breathing...LOL


i agree with that!   imo.....the whole confession is joran trying for reduced sentence......the whole story sounds like a bunch of crap to me....of course what do you expect from s#$thead?

I just wonder what kind of laws they have.  It would be interesting to note.  If he is confessing to things that could not have taken place, then he could be setting himself up for some kind of "redo" to drag this out longer.  I am not sure that he is not getting advice from the Hague.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 08, 2010, 09:24:07 PM
Do you think if he really knows where Daddy put Natalee he will tell us now?
Also if he does will the Netherlands arrest him so he goes to serve his  sentence  there first?
Or does Peru  get him first..


Blonde,
I've been wondering the same thing. Stef's father can ask the Peru police to get Joran to come clean on Natalee. But then that may be a catch 22 situation. If he confesses does Aruba get him back for trial first?

And I would not be surprised at all if today Aruba announces the searches there have produced some evidence and they are charging Joran with murder. Or, they have reviewed their files and now want to prosecute him.

Ado

Now that would be really interesting...

Good Morning Monkeys !! (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Coffee/SSmonkeyguycoffeespill.gif)

So much has happened since I went to bed... (http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/Sea_Searcher/Monkey%20Em/cool_m1.gif)

Too much information!  :-p



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 08, 2010, 09:24:20 PM
After watching NG and JVM, a couple of notes from both shows.

(1) Tim Miller confirmed Colombia story. Then, bolstered it by citing a related phone call to Jossy, while in his office.
(2) Marijuana use cited
(3) Confirmation that Joran did indeed travel to Colombia, prior to arriving in Peru
(4) NG caller asked "What clothes was he wearing when he went to get coffee?" Answer was same clothes as entering at 5am with SF.
(5) International lawyer (who said he had lots of experience and Peru prisons were horrible) mentioned to convey to Holloways that they could approach Peruvian consulate to accept lighter sentence for Joran, in exchange for info about NH/Aruba. The point being that they may want to seek international law expert to explore their rights as it sound like they do have some.
(6) Aruba would like to see contents of JVDS laptop for Aruban case purposes. I found this odd/suspicious..

Next, a couple of my own thoughts/observations:

(1) Joran is trying to angle strategy. (a) marijuana use. (b) confession, then retraction. (c) manslaughter, instead of murder. (d) killing out of anger, instead of premeditation.
(2) Wonder if reason for entering room  could have been as simple as "Hey, want to smoke a joint at my place"
(3) Someone on NG suggested a rough sexual scenario that led to death. Have never heard that theory before, true or not.
(4) Linda Allison seems very composed, at peace, and very classy. Do others feel the same?
(5) Passport trace needs to be done on Joran. I think atrail and story can definitely be pieced together.
(6) As someone else suggested pages back, they likely did not sleep. Arrival at 5AM (late-night lifestyle), they should have slept in until early afternoon. 8AM action implies to me that no sleep occurred. Add in the taxi driver stating that he smoked and slept during cab ride.


OK. Just wanted to put it out there before forgetting....

Oh yeah, SF slapped JVDS first.

Also, what happened to Julia Renfro. What was the argument about. I missed it and JVM said she had hung up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:24:28 PM
Every time I see or hear TACO STEIN, I get this picture in my head: lolol


HAHAHAHAHA!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:24:51 PM
Every time I see or hear TACO STEIN, I get this picture in my head: lolol



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/TacoStein.jpg)

ROTFLAMO................so glad I kept the spitty tee shirt on...........I still think his face needs to be on a teeny tiny little penis


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:25:45 PM
Joran knows the whole story of what they have on him.  He knows that they found DNA under her nails.  He is playing them.  They are working the system as we speak.  He confession plus marijauna use might help reduce his sentence.

This is only the beginning of what we are seeing.


Hmmm, I don't recall anyone saying there was any indication of any marijauna found in the room or on his person?
Does he really think this will fly?

He could say he went for coffee and smoked before he got back.  Doesn't have to be on him.  We all know Joran is a pot head but maybe he smoked his last joint.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:25:45 PM
I WILL DO THE LOCK ~~~~~~~ hopefully it will post through okay...

almost to 100...I'll set up to get ready.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 08, 2010, 09:26:10 PM

OMG, Klaas!!  You just posted a link to "smoking pot around the world"!    lol lol

I never saw that coming!


You do make good points though.  I didn't know it was legal there.  I do think the fact that she had money wouldn't necessarily mean she would want to buy her own marijuana, but it might mean that she would have no need to buy a laptop on the cheap.  If his pot was in the hotel and not on him, well, I just think she might have gone there.

I don't think she went to the room for sex, she went there to either get money from Joran or purchase something from Joran. 

I am with you Klaasend..she was there under false pretenses.  I also think she was drugged prior to this by Joran.  He was hoping to get money and sex..he got a lash back instead..so he did what he does best when the toddler can't get his way...throw a tantrum and murder someone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 08, 2010, 09:26:15 PM

Thanks, Rob, I agree.

Carpe - I'd chip in too for you to make the phone call to the Kalpoe's.


Anybody know if Crazy (a.k.a. Hotsh*t) has her ticket to Peru yet?  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
I WILL DO THE LOCK ~~~~~~~ hopefully it will post through okay...

almost to 100...I'll set up to get ready.

OK Thanks Nut.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:26:41 PM
Joran knows the whole story of what they have on him.  He knows that they found DNA under her nails.  He is playing them.  They are working the system as we speak.  He confession plus marijauna use might help reduce his sentence.

This is only the beginning of what we are seeing.
Hmmm, I don't recall anyone saying there was any indication of any marijauna found in the room or on his person?
Does he really think this will fly?

I recall someone saying there were cigarette butts in an ashtray...I think it was Jean Casarus.....and we know what a dipchit she is.....so it might have been pot


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10
Post by: klaasend on June 08, 2010, 09:27:42 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/BethNHRC060810.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:27:48 PM
Mickey Sherman said you get less time if you kill out of anger.  It makes no sense to him.  He said he didn't do it for being a nice guy.

He said everything should had time to his sentence.  Even him breathing...LOL


i agree with that!   imo.....the whole confession is joran trying for reduced sentence......the whole story sounds like a bunch of crap to me....of course what do you expect from s#$thead?

and it's obvious to me that someone that knows
peruvian laws told him exactly what to say


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Tater on June 08, 2010, 09:27:48 PM
Rita Crosby said she has been in Peru and the Peruvian authorities do not fool around.

Pat Brown just said he a psychopath and he is playing the game the best to his ability.  She thinks Joran will get 15 years and he will be out when he is 30.

He won't live that long in Peruvian prison, she should know that if she's a profiler.  Imo, of course.


I agree.I heard somewhere that there are some really vicious gangs in there that will cut his throat for 50 bucks so the likelyhood of survival for him is next to nill...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: thecuz on June 08, 2010, 09:27:51 PM
hey nunya and sunny....good to see you both! so, here we are again!
i just switched to lkl.....so i can get cnn...yipee.....lol..they just did a close up of jorans big old white tennis shoes!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on June 08, 2010, 09:29:08 PM
After watching NG and JVM, a couple of notes from both shows.

(1) Tim Miller confirmed Colombia story. Then, bolstered it by citing a related phone call to Jossy, while in his office.
(2) Marijuana use cited
(3) Confirmation that Joran did indeed travel to Colombia, prior to arriving in Peru
(4) NG caller asked "What clothes was he wearing when he went to get coffee?" Answer was same clothes as entering at 5am with SF.
(5) International lawyer (who said he had lots of experience and Peru prisons were horrible) mentioned to convey to Holloways that they could approach Peruvian consulate to accept lighter sentence for Joran, in exchange for info about NH/Aruba. The point being that they may want to seek international law expert to explore their rights as it sound like they do have some.
(6) Aruba would like to see contents of JVDS laptop for Aruban case purposes. I found this odd/suspicious..

Next, a couple of my own thoughts/observations:

(1) Joran is trying to angle strategy. (a) marijuana use. (b) confession, then retraction. (c) manslaughter, instead of murder. (d) killing out of anger, instead of premeditation.
(2) Wonder if reason for entering room  could have been as simple as "Hey, want to smoke a joint at my place"
(3) Someone on NG suggested a rough sexual scenario that led to death. Have never heard that theory before, true or not.
(4) Linda Allison seems very composed, at peace, and very classy. Do others feel the same?
(5) Passport trace needs to be done on Joran. I think atrail and story can definitely be pieced together.
(6) As someone else suggested pages back, they likely did not sleep. Arrival at 5AM (late-night lifestyle), they should have slept in until early afternoon. 8AM action implies to me that no sleep occurred. Add in the taxi driver stating that he smoked and slept during cab ride.


OK. Just wanted to put it out there before forgetting....

Oh yeah, SF slapped JVDS first.

Also, what happened to Julia Renfro. What was the argument about. I missed it and JVM said she had hung up.
No way that the girl checked his computer and confronted him. He made that up.
I think he pulled up the Natalie thing and taunted Stephany or something sick like that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 08, 2010, 09:29:18 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/dsff.png)


Who is this?  Gerry Strawberry?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:29:33 PM
Mickey Sherman said you get less time if you kill out of anger.  It makes no sense to him.  He said he didn't do it for being a nice guy.

He said everything should had time to his sentence.  Even him breathing...LOL


i agree with that!   imo.....the whole confession is joran trying for reduced sentence......the whole story sounds like a bunch of crap to me....of course what do you expect from s#$thead?

and it's obvious to me that someone that knows
peruvian laws told him exactly what to say

OH YES!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 08, 2010, 09:30:37 PM
Candice Delong - former FBI profiler calls him Johan and says he's either really tall or everyone else is reaaaalllly short.

She's on with TJ on LKL

well she is really up on the players.....NOT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: MsVada on June 08, 2010, 09:30:39 PM
Rita Crosby said she has been in Peru and the Peruvian authorities do not fool around.

Pat Brown just said he a psychopath and he is playing the game the best to his ability.  She thinks Joran will get 15 years and he will be out when he is 30.

He won't live that long in Peruvian prison, she should know that if she's a profiler.  Imo, of course.



I sure hope you're right,  It makes me ill to think that little puke will be out that soon. 

I agree.I heard somewhere that there are some really vicious gangs in there that will cut his throat for 50 bucks so the likelyhood of survival for him is next to nill...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 -
Post by: San on June 08, 2010, 09:30:40 PM
Mickey Sherman said you get less time if you kill out of anger.  It makes no sense to him.  He said he didn't do it for being a nice guy.

He said everything should had time to his sentence.  Even him breathing...LOL


i agree with that!   imo.....the whole confession is joran trying for reduced sentence......the whole story sounds like a bunch of crap to me....of course what do you expect from s#$thead?

and it's obvious to me that someone that knows
peruvian laws told him exactly what to say


Exactly Sunny.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10
Post by: jjayinthemorning on June 08, 2010, 09:30:58 PM

Thanks, Rob, I agree.

Carpe - I'd chip in too for you to make the phone call to the Kalpoe's.


Anybody know if Crazy (a.k.a. Hotsh*t) has her ticket to Peru yet?  lol
Kalpoe's are definately guilty too.
One of the brothers said something like Natalie deserved to die because she dressed like a who..re.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 08, 2010, 09:31:47 PM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/MODLOCK1.gif)


>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8078.0