Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: MuffyBee on June 14, 2010, 10:20:03 PM



Title: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MuffyBee on June 14, 2010, 10:20:03 PM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/NatbirdStephany2.gif)

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE AND STEPHANY!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
Here!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 17, 2010, 07:23:33 PM
Beautiful pictures.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 07:34:00 PM
ARUBA AMIGOE NEWS:

Dutch to English translation
Aruba
"Joran placed with other prisoners'
June 17, 2010, 13:03 (GMT -04:00)



ORANGE CITY / LIMA - Joran van der Sloot is within two to three months was transferred to the general section of the Castro Castro prison in Lima. Currently he spends for his own safety in a separate cell in a separate section. Joran is in custody for the murder of 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores.

Prison Director Ruben Rodriguez Rabanal in a TV documentary with the Dutch channel SBS 6 said "Joran is in a separate cell, because he is involved in a high-profile case. "About two or three months, he placed the other prisoner." The director does not expect any problems. He says that especially difficult child molesters have the prisoners. "Joran is not a child abuser. He's a great guy. I expect no problems when he is placed among other prisoners. "

Journalist Wim van de Pol, the only Dutch reporter who was once the Castro Castro prison visited, however, says that in extreme danger. "There is the law of the jungle." While it is a maximum security prison of the highest level, but security is only focused on the retention of the detainees, made by Van de Pol. "They see who goes in and out. What happened inside, is less important. "Van de Pol, the prison disguised as a priest. "There was no journalists were allowed inside." He describes the prison as "very bad" and says that frequent deaths. "There is a constant shortage of food and medical care there is very little."

Psychiatric Research
Joran will pass before a judge Monday. These will then decide on the extension of his remand. He will be questioned about "the facts and responsibilities" at the death of Flores, said in a press release justice. The court ruled that Joran on a psychological and psychiatric assessment should be carried out. On the basis of the questioning on June 21 by police and the evidence adduced the court determines whether and when a reconstruction of the events take place. The three taxi drivers who Joran from Lima to the border with neighboring Chile have been used by the court to the test. This happens in 1923, 1924 and June 25. Joran also need to not hearing the prison. The magistrate comes to him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 07:35:31 PM
HLN is reporting Anita has borrowed money for Joran's defense from "friends", additionally that there may be more than one attorney hired, and that she plans to head to Peru in a few days.



ABC 20/20 GRANADILLO INTERVIEW


ABC News Pulls Out Checkbook for Van Der Sloot Photos; Gets Exclusive Interview
By Alex Weprin on Jun 17, 2010 05:50 PM


http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/abc/abc_news_pulls_out_checkbook_for_van_der_sloot_photos_gets_exclusive_interview_165028.asp

Tomorrow night, ABC News will present a special edition of "20/20," featuring an exclusive interview with Melony Granadillo, the ex-girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot. Van der Sloot is the alleged killer of a Peruvian woman, and is also wanted in the United States on charges related to the death of Natalee Holloway.

While news organizations maintain that they do not pay for interviews, they routinely pay "licensing fees" for photos, videos or other materials. Often the people licensing the content will then give "exclusive" interviews to the news organization that bought them.

In the case of Friday's "20/20" special, ABC News licensed photos and text messages from Granadillo, and will feature them on-air. An ABC News spokesperson tells TVNewser it will disclose that it had licensed the material during the broadcast.

The exact amount of money that ABC News paid for the photos and texts is unclear.

In March, lawyers revealed that ABC News had paid the family of Caylee Anthony $200,000 for rights to use photos and home videos. While ABC News featured another interview with the Anthony family this week tied to the anniversary of Caylee's disappearance, a network spokesperson tells us they did not license any new photos or video from the Anthonys this time.

In addition to licensing fees, news orgs will occasionally offer other perks, such as paying for hotel rooms or flights. We don't know if Granadillo was extended those perks as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 07:38:11 PM
I just saw a little blurb of the Melody interview and she said that Joran
contacted her just a few hours before he killed Stephany and she thought
OMG...here we go again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: OneHappyChica on June 17, 2010, 07:38:51 PM
"Aruban authorities are urging Natalee Holloway's father, Dave Holloway, to delay volunteer search efforts in her disappearance until police get better information on the case from Peruvian investigators who have spoken to Joran van der Sloot, prosecutor Peter Blanken said.

Police do not want their investigation jeopardized or possible evidence contaminated in the Bubali Bird Sanctuary, a swamp area where Joran once said he dumped Holloway's body, Blanken said. Aruban authorities wish to search a more focused area once they receive more information from van der Sloot and his laptop, which may include files linking him to the Holloway disappearance."


Translation: Aruban LE continue to obstruct truth and justice. They adhere exclusively to a corrupt crony program founded on internal "volunteerism". They rely on lies obtained from not-so-happy, island image ruining, disinformant, Joran. They wish to personally contaminate (read: destroy, hide, protect) any and all possible evidence. They recognize their entire island is a mere 75 square miles; yet, they attempt to convince the ill-informed differently.

AHHHHHH!!!!!! If they want to search a tiny swamp area, let them! How much more focused can the search get? Most major cities in the States are larger than the WHOLE island!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 07:40:08 PM
Magnolia, I'll bet she made that up.  It will be easily checked by the authorities, too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 07:46:33 PM
I just saw a little blurb of the Melody interview and she said that Joran
contacted her just a few hours before he killed Stephany and she thought
OMG...here we go again.

Remember he had contacted a former girlfriend wanting money and the girlfriend had sort of denied his request, saying she needed money herself, and he said something like never loving him, because if she did, she would send money.  I don't even think he wished her a happy illegitimate baby day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 17, 2010, 07:50:48 PM
Melody seems to be very self-serving.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 07:51:28 PM
canoworms, her father was a member of that AHATA thing or whatever it was.  He was a hotel contractor.  If she has no money to support her baby, then I suppose she is having to whore herself out for to ABC in which case her parents must be like Anita, lying about being broke.  Is there something in the water in Aruba that makes everyone lie so much or do all the liars just go to Aruba because they know there is no accounting for lack of morals, integrity and responsibility.

How many of you former RWV posters recall the day she came on there with a "friend" and it was discovered that the friend was Anita, and how many of you recall Melody blaming Natalee because Natalee was older, more worldly and mature than poor sporter boy.  Age had nothing to do with that.  I asked her if Joran liked rough sex and she told me once in a blue moon. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 07:51:53 PM
I just saw a little blurb of the Melody interview and she said that Joran
contacted her just a few hours before he killed Stephany
and she thought
OMG...here we go again.

Remember he had contacted a former girlfriend wanting money and the girlfriend had sort of denied his request, saying she needed money herself, and he said something like never loving him, because if she did, she would send money.  I don't even think he wished her a happy illegitimate baby day.

Both elcomercio.com and larepublica.com have articles stating the same right now.

They had electronic contact right before May 30th.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Shan1628 on June 17, 2010, 07:52:47 PM
I don't know about you all but I'm quite sick and tired about every "joe shmoe" coming forward for their 10 minutes of fame.  This is about NATALEE and STEFANY...being killed by a pyschotic murderer.  PERIOD.  ABC, Melony, and all these other 'people' need to go the hell away.  Even Jinkosaurus and her so-called reporting from Peru...sick of it.  Joran needs to spill about where Natalee is and if she is recoverable.  Then put him in general population and let the other prisoners take care of him.  Everyone is trying to make a quick buck over these two murders and it is sickening.  Sorry.  Rant over. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 07:56:59 PM
I don't know about you all but I'm quite sick and tired about every "joe shmoe" coming forward for their 10 minutes of fame.  This is about NATALEE and STEFANY...being killed by a pyschotic murderer.  PERIOD.  ABC, Melony, and all these other 'people' need to go the hell away.  Even Jinkosaurus and her so-called reporting from Peru...sick of it.  Joran needs to spill about where Natalee is and if she is recoverable.  Then put him in general population and let the other prisoners take care of him.  Everyone is trying to make a quick buck over these two murders and it is sickening.  Sorry.  Rant over. 

I feel the exact same way and whomever cut that check loose from ABC should be
marched on and hung by his nuts in Time Square.

Then fly the Rollof`s soccer team in from the west coast to beat him in the face all day with BEN WAH BALLS!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 08:07:24 PM
I don't know about you all but I'm quite sick and tired about every "joe shmoe" coming forward for their 10 minutes of fame.  This is about NATALEE and STEFANY...being killed by a pyschotic murderer.  PERIOD.  ABC, Melony, and all these other 'people' need to go the hell away.  Even Jinkosaurus and her so-called reporting from Peru...sick of it.  Joran needs to spill about where Natalee is and if she is recoverable.  Then put him in general population and let the other prisoners take care of him.  Everyone is trying to make a quick buck over these two murders and it is sickening.  Sorry.  Rant over. 

I agree with you and appreciate your rant.  You are absolutely right.  Just throw Joran out in the public population of the prison and let God and Devil sort them all out.  Meanwhile, ABC and Melody, Anita and the Hague need to STFU.  I see what they are trying to do.  It was not that Anita did not have the money.  She was trying to work her politics.  I hate her. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cw618 on June 17, 2010, 08:07:46 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8111.msg1163522#msg1163522

had posted b4, forgot where, one more time steph, i call
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/9071633#37737078

he would like to go home to the home prison, snicker, not happening


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 17, 2010, 08:08:09 PM
Joran's mattress isn't on the floor now......has a bed frame..........I think they cleaned up the place for this tour.

I had to laugh when Jinkasaurus said "look, he has his own bathroom" LOL....a hole in the ground


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:09:10 PM
Watching Jinkasaurus on NG.  Joran's accommodations don't look nearly bad enough.  I know they likely spruced things up a bit for the cameras but I was hoping for much worse.

I sure hope the one to which he is sentenced permanently is worse and he does get the life sentence that is called for in the instance of murder with robbery as motive.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 17, 2010, 08:09:52 PM
So Melody sold her soul for the devil and I'll bet Anita's in on it too!  Maybe they will share the assets?







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Hat on June 17, 2010, 08:10:08 PM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 17, 2010, 08:11:28 PM
I just saw a little blurb of the Melody interview and she said that Joran
contacted her just a few hours before he killed Stephany
and she thought
OMG...here we go again.

Remember he had contacted a former girlfriend wanting money and the girlfriend had sort of denied his request, saying she needed money herself, and he said something like never loving him, because if she did, she would send money.  I don't even think he wished her a happy illegitimate baby day.

Joran could give 2 sh!ts about this snit.....he was sending messages to anyone and everyone for money.
It's a good thing it wasn't face to face when she refused to give him $$$, she could have been his next victim.

Both elcomercio.com and larepublica.com have articles stating the same right now.

They had electronic contact right before May 30th.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:12:31 PM
http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Through translator:

cantidad by police owing to bay at monserat before one caso by action cu tiramento cantidad by police owing to bay at monserat before one caso by action cu tiramento diaranzon afternoon, owing to surgi one situation quite fastioso at monserat, where the first informe cu owing to come into cu pabao by veld by ball by deportivo nacional, have one action serious, y where had usage by arm by candela. several patrol policial owing to being send, while cu helicopter by police also owing to arise before give asistencia, in sense by busca one car cu 2 young in dje, kendenan owing to throw. informacion cu we owing to attain for by mam by one by the victimanan by tiro, cu owing to resulta by one arm by air, cu owing to injury the child at her leg, owing to give by conoce, cause by the confrontacion here, is debi at one problem cu owing to cuminsa monday madruga, where had action among are by young, cu anteriormente was depart together, but at present not more. y at present the situation owing to bay so far, cu have usage by arm by candela. another child owing to attain sla cu one cabo at her cacheta y owing to los because 5 tiro on another hobennan. in huymento, owing to strike the car on another car cu was asercando. police owing to come into in cas before investiga one que another, where owing to bay cu several pieza by bromer, already cu fiscal owing to give ordo p’esaki. kico was the cause by the confrontacion here, is being say cu had reglamento by cuenta among 2 are. apparently they will owing to steal together, y owing to surgi diferencia by opinion before cual the problem y bringamento. monday madruga, owing to beat one by the children here, cu owing to dicidi by take revenge y esey owing to conduci cu diaranzon owing to dicidi by bay n’e cas at monserat before regulation cuenta. police all the time owing to succeed laydown hand on esnan cu owing to throw y owing to detene they before more investigacion.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/RenfroMonsaratGang061710a.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/RenfroMonsaratGang061710b.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/MonseratDrugsRenfro.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:12:56 PM
I believe the gf Joran was asking for money from was in the NL wasn't she?


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 08:13:10 PM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat

Glad to hear you are doing fine and are away from the hospital.  Did you get a pacemaker, neuromodulator?  I hope for whatever reason you got it, it works well.  I have not heard any complaints lately.  Boston Sci makes lots of great medical stuff. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Shan1628 on June 17, 2010, 08:13:16 PM
I don't know about you all but I'm quite sick and tired about every "joe shmoe" coming forward for their 10 minutes of fame.  This is about NATALEE and STEFANY...being killed by a pyschotic murderer.  PERIOD.  ABC, Melony, and all these other 'people' need to go the hell away.  Even Jinkosaurus and her so-called reporting from Peru...sick of it.  Joran needs to spill about where Natalee is and if she is recoverable.  Then put him in general population and let the other prisoners take care of him.  Everyone is trying to make a quick buck over these two murders and it is sickening.  Sorry.  Rant over. 

I agree with you and appreciate your rant.  You are absolutely right.  Just throw Joran out in the public population of the prison and let God and Devil sort them all out.  Meanwhile, ABC and Melody, Anita and the Hague need to STFU.  I see what they are trying to do.  It was not that Anita did not have the money.  She was trying to work her politics.  I hate her. 

Carpe, I agree and you said it better than I ever could! HAHA! 

Tylergirl:  I wish they'd ALL would STFU.  Keep the focus where it belongs...it certainly isn't "supposed" to be on them. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MuffyBee on June 17, 2010, 08:13:54 PM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat


I'm sorry you were in the hospital, Hat.  I hope you're on the mend. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 17, 2010, 08:15:23 PM
I often wonder who it was that sent the email to Joran, if it's true, calling him a name we don't allow on this board. Joran liked to use that word.  It reminded me of the words Joran used to Deepak and Satish in the police car recording. 



 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:15:27 PM
I'd bet Joran was contacting people through Facebook. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:17:10 PM
NG shows the very same scenes with Jinkasaurus over and over and over.

Really milking this for all it's worth and then some.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:18:23 PM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat

A stent Hat?  They have gotten so good at that technology!  Get plenty of rest.  GO LAKERS! 

P.S.  Just because you now have a Boston implant is no reason to root for them in tonight :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 08:19:03 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 17, 2010, 08:19:06 PM
I don't know about you all but I'm quite sick and tired about every "joe shmoe" coming forward for their 10 minutes of fame.  This is about NATALEE and STEFANY...being killed by a pyschotic murderer.  PERIOD.  ABC, Melony, and all these other 'people' need to go the hell away.  Even Jinkosaurus and her so-called reporting from Peru...sick of it.  Joran needs to spill about where Natalee is and if she is recoverable.  Then put him in general population and let the other prisoners take care of him.  Everyone is trying to make a quick buck over these two murders and it is sickening.  Sorry.  Rant over. 

Liked the rant.  I agree with you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:20:52 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.
`

I'm leaning more towards John Ludwick.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 17, 2010, 08:20:54 PM
Now they are saying Stefany wasn't wearing any of those clothes?  Did I hear that right?

I thought she still had her shirt on, no?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 17, 2010, 08:21:54 PM
and while Melody is counting her American dolla's poor Dave gets the bums rush. All he wants is to bring his American daughter home. <monkey mad>







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 08:22:01 PM
Hat, I'm glad you're feeling better; sounds like a good prognosis.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:22:20 PM
NG showing the contents of the hotel room but NG saying the bloody shirt was found on Joran in Chile.  I don't think so.  I think he covered the body with his short and left it in the room.

The connection is he is seen wearing the shirt all the previous evening.  But NG saying it was found on him is not correct in my opinion.  Those photos are the room contents only and we have had them for a very long time here on this forum.

They never get the details right.

JMO


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jill on June 17, 2010, 08:22:48 PM
I'm in the middle of reading the latest People magazine.

There is a large story about Joran - when I opened to the first page of the story, I was in tears as they have pics of Natalee and Stephany side by side.

The article is extremely interesting.

Lots of info about Joran (and pics) regarding his life over the last few years.

One interesting quote from Anita, "I haven't spoken with Joran in a long time.  Not since his father's death".

hmm.

anyway, thought you all might be interested.  Some inconsistencies, but interesting to read for instance, that he was evicted from his house in Thailand due to partying and tearing up the place.  Lots of quotes from people he knows, including one from a woman who said that she saw him at a casino, about to leave with a woman.  She went up to the woman and said, "do you know who he is?".  Joran called her a bitch and walked off.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 08:23:37 PM
canoworms, her father was a member of that AHATA thing or whatever it was.  He was a hotel contractor.  If she has no money to support her baby, then I suppose she is having to whore herself out for to ABC in which case her parents must be like Anita, lying about being broke.  Is there something in the water in Aruba that makes everyone lie so much or do all the liars just go to Aruba because they know there is no accounting for lack of morals, integrity and responsibility.

How many of you former RWV posters recall the day she came on there with a "friend" and it was discovered that the friend was Anita, and how many of you recall Melody blaming Natalee because Natalee was older, more worldly and mature than poor sporter boy.  Age had nothing to do with that.  I asked her if Joran liked rough sex and she told me once in a blue moon. 

Nods head emphatically....and Dan admonished us for being hard on her...citing her tender age,...blablabla.I sure do remember Melody fifteen more minutes of fame Granadillo.
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:25:23 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.
`

I'm leaning more towards John Ludwick.

I think somebody in NL would say euros and not Ludwick or Melany.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:25:35 PM
I'm in the middle of reading the latest People magazine.

There is a large story about Joran - when I opened to the first page of the story, I was in tears as they have pics of Natalee and Stephany side by side.

The article is extremely interesting.

Lots of info about Joran (and pics) regarding his life over the last few years.

One interesting quote from Anita, "I haven't spoken with Joran in a long time.  Not since his father's death".

hmm.

anyway, thought you all might be interested.  Some inconsistencies, but interesting to read for instance, that he was evicted from his house in Thailand due to partying and tearing up the place.  Lots of quotes from people he knows, including one from a woman who said that she saw him at a casino, about to leave with a woman.  She went up to the woman and said, "do you know who he is?".  Joran called her a bitch and walked off.

That is a lie


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 08:25:39 PM
I'm in the middle of reading the latest People magazine.

There is a large story about Joran - when I opened to the first page of the story, I was in tears as they have pics of Natalee and Stephany side by side.

The article is extremely interesting.

Lots of info about Joran (and pics) regarding his life over the last few years.

One interesting quote from Anita, "I haven't spoken with Joran in a long time.  Not since his father's death".

hmm.

anyway, thought you all might be interested.  Some inconsistencies, but interesting to read for instance, that he was evicted from his house in Thailand due to partying and tearing up the place.  Lots of quotes from people he knows, including one from a woman who said that she saw him at a casino, about to leave with a woman.  She went up to the woman and said, "do you know who he is?".  Joran called her a bitch and walked off.

All Klaas has to do is post the April 25, 2010 Bingo pic... we`ll blow that lying slug right out of the water. Next whopper, Anita?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Shan1628 on June 17, 2010, 08:25:42 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:27:22 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 08:30:12 PM
Now they are saying Stefany wasn't wearing any of those clothes?  Did I hear that right?

I thought she still had her shirt on, no?

I read T shirt and Panties, sanitary pad attached * this was from a transcript and later quoted, elsewhere* His "confession" or interrogation asked the Q WHY did you tale off her shoes and pants...so I saw no mention of her not waering her own clothes that she entered the room with. the renactment photo/diagram shows clothing on the bed so I assumed it was hers, and his shirt was on her, or covered her. That she was wrapped in a blanket was also quoted- the ENQUIRER had a pic of a body in a blanket but it doesn't match exactly how she was laying do maybe the pic is skewed to see all elements...
I would like to see this come to a close quickly without all of the other inconsistencies surrounding NH's case.
Delena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:30:33 PM
canoworms, her father was a member of that AHATA thing or whatever it was.  He was a hotel contractor.  If she has no money to support her baby, then I suppose she is having to whore herself out for to ABC in which case her parents must be like Anita, lying about being broke.  Is there something in the water in Aruba that makes everyone lie so much or do all the liars just go to Aruba because they know there is no accounting for lack of morals, integrity and responsibility.

How many of you former RWV posters recall the day she came on there with a "friend" and it was discovered that the friend was Anita, and how many of you recall Melody blaming Natalee because Natalee was older, more worldly and mature than poor sporter boy.  Age had nothing to do with that.  I asked her if Joran liked rough sex and she told me once in a blue moon. 

Nods head emphatically....and Dan admonished us for being hard on her...citing her tender age,...blablabla.I sure do remember Melody fifteen more minutes of fame Granadillo.
Selena


Yes and her English was always so much better when Anita was telling her what to say, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 08:31:07 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)
maybe he's a blow up doll.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:33:55 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Again, no, Mellany would say her phone bill in florins and not euros.  Ludwick likely in florins or dollars.  I think it is ssomebody in NL or even Thailand.


Melony is exaggerating her contacts with Joran to enhance her ability to sell interviews, etc.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:35:32 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Again, no, Mellany would say her phone bill in florins and not euros.  Ludwick likely in florins or dollars.  I think it is ssomebody in NL or even Thailand.


Melony is exaggerating her contacts with Joran to enhance her ability to sell interviews, etc.



Kirk Atkinson aka WhiteOut the co-owner of the coffee shop in Thailand, now the owner?  Very possible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 08:35:45 PM
I believe the gf Joran was asking for money from was in the NL wasn't she?


.

I read that she was 20 and her English translated seemed like she could have been.
When will these young girls get smart?
Selena....not Delena, but that is a cool sounding typo

(Edit-Add missing quote bracket-MB)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 17, 2010, 08:36:56 PM
MELODY

When Beth and Melody's words are considered in context ... the implication is that Paulus did not pick up Joran at 11:00 PM at the Excelsior casino on the evening of May 29, 2005.  In other words ... Joran did not go home prior to going to Carlos & Charlies.

Janet

+++++++

Nancy Grace - August 3, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, not only how the night unfolded at Carlos and Charlie`s, but even prior to that. This 11:00 PM pick-up on May the 29th I was able to speak with a witness also that said that Joran Van Der Sloot they were offering to give him a ride home at 11:00 PM on the 29th, but he didn`t need one because he had already called Deepak and Satish Kalpoe to pick him up. So that is something that -- you know, we know that Paul Van Der Sloot did not pick him up at 11:00 PM on the 29th. We know now that that correct pick-up time was 4:00 AM on the 30th, and Paul Van Der Sloot stated that he picked them up.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/03/ng.01.html


Melody - Joran's Former Girlfriend
Riehlworld View Posts
August, 2005


i saw him that saturday that's why, that was the 29th, but it's the 30th right? ... i was just sitting around and remembered that :$ and i asked which casino because where i saw him is very close to a casino, but the Seaport casino.

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 02:17 AM


but Dan i SWEAR i saw him , he was standing alone leaning against a pilar.

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 02:26 AM


wait no... thank goodness for being as big of a girly girl as i am ... i wrote down the party and the movies because the movies was the first time me and my curent boyfriend kissed :$ ... so i know for sure now.. i saw him the 29th! and before 12am. ... sorry guys,don't get mad at me for being wrong ta first...

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 02:33 AM


http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_32.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:37:30 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)
maybe he's a blow up doll.


Joran looks very strange in that photo.  Ears sticking out more than usual even.  Are we positive that's him?  Maybe Anita doesn't even know he's back there, lol.  She is pretty dense, you know.

Also why is he wearing a badge?  Isn't he later seen doing something like officiating at the bingo game?

Probably it's just Anita lying again, however.

But what's with the badge?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cw618 on June 17, 2010, 08:37:30 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)

he is looking right at the camera


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:37:39 PM
Anna - prior to Joran leaving Aruba in May it was looking like Melody and Joran might have gotten back together.  There were even some facebook posts that had us wondering if Joran had just gotten her pregnant.  Anita was regularly commenting on Melody's facebook.  I don't think Melody is exaggerating about her recent contact with Joran at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Shan1628 on June 17, 2010, 08:37:47 PM
Now they are saying Stefany wasn't wearing any of those clothes?  Did I hear that right?

I thought she still had her shirt on, no?

I read T shirt and Panties, sanitary pad attached * this was from a transcript and later quoted, elsewhere* His "confession" or interrogation asked the Q WHY did you tale off her shoes and pants...so I saw no mention of her not waering her own clothes that she entered the room with. the renactment photo/diagram shows clothing on the bed so I assumed it was hers, and his shirt was on her, or covered her. That she was wrapped in a blanket was also quoted- the ENQUIRER had a pic of a body in a blanket but it doesn't match exactly how she was laying do maybe the pic is skewed to see all elements...
I would like to see this come to a close quickly without all of the other inconsistencies surrounding NH's case.
Delena

The items being shown on NG are items recovered from the room where Stefany was killed and there is a pic of the items that Urine gave the various cab drivers throughout his escape through Chile.  For goodness sake, they're arguing over the front and back of a shirt.  Give me a freakin' break.  The gray/whitish shirt is the same shirt he was wearing when they arrived at the hotel from the casino.  He suffocated her with that shirt and then covered her body with it.  Getting sick of NG and her inaccurate reporting as well.  Grrrr.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 08:38:16 PM
Well I do hope Kirk and John haven`t taken to calling him HONEY.... but with Joran, hey!!! It could happen.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 08:39:43 PM
I believe the gf Joran was asking for money from was in the NL wasn't she?


.

(Edit-Add missing quote bracket-MB)

I read that she was 20 and her English translated seemed like she could have been.
When will these young girls get smart?
Selena....not Delena, but that is a cool sounding typo

LOL.  Poor girls.  The world is full of mean people and stupid people looking to be their doormats.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 08:42:46 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)
maybe he's a blow up doll.


Joran looks very strange in that photo.  Ears sticking out more than usual even.  Are we positive that's him?  Maybe Anita doesn't even know he's back there, lol.  She is pretty dense, you know.

Also why is he wearing a badge?  Isn't he later seen doing something like officiating at the bingo game?

Probably it's just Anita lying again, however.

But what's with the badge?

.


It is the emblem from the front of the police hat in the fish trap. LOLOL :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 17, 2010, 08:43:14 PM
Joran's mattress isn't on the floor now......has a bed frame..........I think they cleaned up the place for this tour.

I had to laugh when Jinkasaurus said "look, he has his own bathroom" LOL....a hole in the ground


that was such a set up!  LOL  who do they think they are fooling.........the attorney on Nancy disGrace said they don't have toilet paper....eeewwwww


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 17, 2010, 08:44:52 PM
Now they are saying Stefany wasn't wearing any of those clothes?  Did I hear that right?

I thought she still had her shirt on, no?

I read T shirt and Panties, sanitary pad attached * this was from a transcript and later quoted, elsewhere* His "confession" or interrogation asked the Q WHY did you tale off her shoes and pants...so I saw no mention of her not waering her own clothes that she entered the room with. the renactment photo/diagram shows clothing on the bed so I assumed it was hers, and his shirt was on her, or covered her. That she was wrapped in a blanket was also quoted- the ENQUIRER had a pic of a body in a blanket but it doesn't match exactly how she was laying do maybe the pic is skewed to see all elements...
I would like to see this come to a close quickly without all of the other inconsistencies surrounding NH's case.
Delena

The items being shown on NG are items recovered from the room where Stefany was killed and there is a pic of the items that Urine gave the various cab drivers throughout his escape through Chile.  For goodness sake, they're arguing over the front and back of a shirt.  Give me a freakin' break.  The gray/whitish shirt is the same shirt he was wearing when they arrived at the hotel from the casino.  He suffocated her with that shirt and then covered her body with it.  Getting sick of NG and her inaccurate reporting as well.  Grrrr.

I'm talking about the sleeveless black t-shirt that the videos from the casino showed Stefany wearing - it said Nike down the front of it in large different colored letters.  The lady commenting on the pictures said it was Stefany's shirt, found in the room, and she was not wearing it.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 08:45:00 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)
maybe he's a blow up doll.


Joran looks very strange in that photo.  Ears sticking out more than usual even.  Are we positive that's him?  Maybe Anita doesn't even know he's back there, lol.  She is pretty dense, you know.

Also why is he wearing a badge?  Isn't he later seen doing something like officiating at the bingo game?

Probably it's just Anita lying again, however.

But what's with the badge?

.
He's certifiable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 17, 2010, 08:46:30 PM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat

hi Hat....glad you are feeling good-ish......although I don't know what a Boston Scientific implant is...but if it makes your feel better it's a good thing...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:47:33 PM
Anna - prior to Joran leaving Aruba in May it was looking like Melody and Joran might have gotten back together.  There were even some facebook posts that had us wondering if Joran had just gotten her pregnant.  Anita was regularly commenting on Melody's facebook.  I don't think Melody is exaggerating about her recent contact with Joran at all.

Klaas, I am aware that you think that as do other posters.  I just don't share that line of thought as Joran considers himself a jetsetter and man of the world.  He wasn't about to settle down with some little island girl.  The world was his stage.  I think Joran was just using her, maybe even leading her on but he wasn't about to end up stuck on hellhole island.

Turns out now he would love to be back there.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 17, 2010, 08:52:30 PM
Anna, I did not 'get' the jinkasaurus joke until NG tonight, I laughed so hard I cried.

NG just laid into the lie that Anita is still working on her plans to get to Peru LOL

Has anyone sent Jinky or Nancy the photo of Anita with the sporter at bingo yet?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 08:52:37 PM
All the best to you Hat, I don't know you personally but I'll add my best wishes to you.
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Shan1628 on June 17, 2010, 08:53:20 PM
Now they are saying Stefany wasn't wearing any of those clothes?  Did I hear that right?

I thought she still had her shirt on, no?

I read T shirt and Panties, sanitary pad attached * this was from a transcript and later quoted, elsewhere* His "confession" or interrogation asked the Q WHY did you tale off her shoes and pants...so I saw no mention of her not waering her own clothes that she entered the room with. the renactment photo/diagram shows clothing on the bed so I assumed it was hers, and his shirt was on her, or covered her. That she was wrapped in a blanket was also quoted- the ENQUIRER had a pic of a body in a blanket but it doesn't match exactly how she was laying do maybe the pic is skewed to see all elements...
I would like to see this come to a close quickly without all of the other inconsistencies surrounding NH's case.
Delena

The items being shown on NG are items recovered from the room where Stefany was killed and there is a pic of the items that Urine gave the various cab drivers throughout his escape through Chile.  For goodness sake, they're arguing over the front and back of a shirt.  Give me a freakin' break.  The gray/whitish shirt is the same shirt he was wearing when they arrived at the hotel from the casino.  He suffocated her with that shirt and then covered her body with it.  Getting sick of NG and her inaccurate reporting as well.  Grrrr.

I'm talking about the sleeveless black t-shirt that the videos from the casino showed Stefany wearing - it said Nike down the front of it in large different colored letters.  The lady commenting on the pictures said it was Stefany's shirt, found in the room, and she was not wearing it.



I understand, lifesong, just seems like some inaccurate reporting to me.  I know the Peruvians have reported that her jeans and sneakers were taken off but her shirt left on.  I believe either NG has the shirt mixed up with the jeans or she has the wrong info. all together.  Neither would surprise me with her.  But yes, NG or radaronline did report the shirt was not on but in the room.  Not accurate, though.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:54:10 PM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 08:55:04 PM
Forgive my asking but just how pregnant is she...we can do the math ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:55:04 PM
Anna - prior to Joran leaving Aruba in May it was looking like Melody and Joran might have gotten back together.  There were even some facebook posts that had us wondering if Joran had just gotten her pregnant.  Anita was regularly commenting on Melody's facebook.  I don't think Melody is exaggerating about her recent contact with Joran at all.

Klaas, I am aware that you think that as do other posters.  I just don't share that line of thought as Joran considers himself a jetsetter and man of the world.  He wasn't about to settle down with some little island girl.  The world was his stage.  I think Joran was just using her, maybe even leading her on but he wasn't about to end up stuck on hellhole island.

Turns out now he would love to be back there.

.

OH Anna, I agree with that 100%.  Joran lies but he knew how to sweet talk Melody.  I don't believe for one minute he was really going to "settle down".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jerseygirl345 on June 17, 2010, 08:55:10 PM
(http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt126/jerseygirl12345/joranshirt.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 08:55:39 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JA on June 17, 2010, 08:56:20 PM
we need to remember that sometimes things are lost in translation.  She very well may have had on a camisole or some type of light T shirt under that black Nike one. . . if she did have a shirt on as once reported.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 08:56:58 PM
Could it just be a soccer insignia (badge) on one of his soccer jerseys?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 08:57:33 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Maybe Glenda is too busy filling out police reports, lol?  Yes, the pap translator is worthless.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 08:58:45 PM
Michael Griffin is saying that US has first shot at Joran after Peru.  He also says we are being duped about how good the accommodations for Joran are.  Good.  I hope they are worse than they appear.

But this guy keeps saying it is the Dutch and not Aruba--he doesn't evrn know Aruba has autonomy now.  That makes me think he is not as smart as he thinks he is.

But I do believe USA would get next shot at Joran.  I just don't want him ever in custody of Aruba at all as they will let him escape or just refuse to return him.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 08:59:13 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 09:00:19 PM
Must watch Lakers, will be back and forth:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/bingo.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 17, 2010, 09:00:28 PM
HLN is reporting Anita has borrowed money for Joran's defense from "friends", additionally that there may be more than one attorney hired, and that she plans to head to Peru in a few days.



ABC 20/20 GRANADILLO INTERVIEW


ABC News Pulls Out Checkbook for Van Der Sloot Photos; Gets Exclusive Interview
By Alex Weprin on Jun 17, 2010 05:50 PM


http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/abc/abc_news_pulls_out_checkbook_for_van_der_sloot_photos_gets_exclusive_interview_165028.asp

Tomorrow night, ABC News will present a special edition of "20/20," featuring an exclusive interview with Melony Granadillo, the ex-girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot. Van der Sloot is the alleged killer of a Peruvian woman, and is also wanted in the United States on charges related to the death of Natalee Holloway.

While news organizations maintain that they do not pay for interviews, they routinely pay "licensing fees" for photos, videos or other materials. Often the people licensing the content will then give "exclusive" interviews to the news organization that bought them.

In the case of Friday's "20/20" special, ABC News licensed photos and text messages from Granadillo, and will feature them on-air. An ABC News spokesperson tells TVNewser it will disclose that it had licensed the material during the broadcast.

The exact amount of money that ABC News paid for the photos and texts is unclear.

In March, lawyers revealed that ABC News had paid the family of Caylee Anthony $200,000 for rights to use photos and home videos. While ABC News featured another interview with the Anthony family this week tied to the anniversary of Caylee's disappearance, a network spokesperson tells us they did not license any new photos or video from the Anthonys this time.

In addition to licensing fees, news orgs will occasionally offer other perks, such as paying for hotel rooms or flights. We don't know if Granadillo was extended those perks as well.

This just raws in my craw ABC paying these murderers BLOOD MONEY of their victims. I would not watch ABC if my life depended on it...............I have not watched one show on there since they paid the murdering slore Anthony.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Shan1628 on June 17, 2010, 09:02:02 PM
Michael Griffin is saying that US has first shot at Joran after Peru.  He also says we are being duped about how good the accommodations for Joran are.  Good.  I hope they are worse than they appear.

But this guy keeps saying it is the Dutch and not Aruba--he doesn't evrn know Aruba has autonomy now.  That makes me think he is not as smart as he thinks he is.

But I do believe USA would get next shot at Joran.  I just don't want him ever in custody of Aruba at all as they will let him escape or just refuse to return him.



I agree, Anna.  The US of A would get him next.  Not Aruba.  The US has charges filed against him already, whereas Aruba does not (or ever will!!)   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 09:02:30 PM
Anna - prior to Joran leaving Aruba in May it was looking like Melody and Joran might have gotten back together.  There were even some facebook posts that had us wondering if Joran had just gotten her pregnant.  Anita was regularly commenting on Melody's facebook.  I don't think Melody is exaggerating about her recent contact with Joran at all.

Klaas, I am aware that you think that as do other posters.  I just don't share that line of thought as Joran considers himself a jetsetter and man of the world.  He wasn't about to settle down with some little island girl.  The world was his stage.  I think Joran was just using her, maybe even leading her on but he wasn't about to end up stuck on hellhole island.

Turns out now he would love to be back there.

.

OH Anna, I agree with that 100%.  Joran lies but he knew how to sweet talk Melody.  I don't believe for one minute he was really going to "settle down".


Well, anybody could sweet talk those girls trapped there.  I'm not sure Joran could get anybody pregnant with the equipment he is sporting, lol.  Not easily anyway. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jerseygirl345 on June 17, 2010, 09:02:42 PM
Trying to catch up..

Stephanie’s blue tennis shoes with white laces are covered with blood according radar online.

It seems to me Stephany had her clothes and shoes on when she was killed.
He is one sick monster..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.


Says firearm in that article, too.

Odd location and timing, all that.  It does appear she is being interrogated by those cops.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 09:04:43 PM
Trying to catch up..

Stephanie’s blue tennis shoes with white laces are covered with blood according radar online.

It seems to me Stephany had her clothes and shoes on when she was killed.
He is one sick monster..

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/Van-Der-Sloot-1b-1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 17, 2010, 09:06:18 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)
maybe he's a blow up doll.


Joran looks very strange in that photo.  Ears sticking out more than usual even.  Are we positive that's him?  Maybe Anita doesn't even know he's back there, lol.  She is pretty dense, you know.

Also why is he wearing a badge?  Isn't he later seen doing something like officiating at the bingo game?

Probably it's just Anita lying again, however.

But what's with the badge?

.

It looks photoshopped to me.  See his vest/shirt-stripe, it bleeds into Anita's blouse


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 09:08:18 PM
Could it just be a soccer insignia (badge) on one of his soccer jerseys?

Nope, it's a big ole badge.  You can tell it's heavy in the other photo which I didn't keep by the way his sort of vest thingy hangs with it attached.

Bingo Patrol?

.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 17, 2010, 09:08:42 PM
It looks photoshopped to me too


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jerseygirl345 on June 17, 2010, 09:09:51 PM
I might of saw differently on the tapes and the tapes in the casino. I thought I didn't see blue jeans on Stephany but dark pants on?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nychic on June 17, 2010, 09:10:35 PM

"Now they are saying Stefany wasn't wearing any of those clothes?  Did I hear that right?"

"I thought she still had her shirt on, no?"

I have a strange feeling that Joran put his own bloody shirt on Stephany to make it look as if she was in the room waiting for him to return and wearing his shirt like they had some sort of relationship ?

"The items being shown on NG are items recovered from the room where Stefany was killed and there is a pic of the items that Urine gave the various cab drivers throughout his escape through Chile." 

Did anyone notice the watch ? It appears to be a Jacob & Co. (very pricey) and it seems I read somewhere that Joran told the cab drivers he paid over  $7,000.00 for it ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 17, 2010, 09:11:11 PM
Nancy Grace said to Michael Griffith that she doesn't see Aruba ever doing anything period.  But I don't think Peru is going to let go of him until he does his time and then wouldn't he come to the U.S.?


Michael Griffith said that U.S. has first shot because we have an extradition law against him.  Nancy Aruba's got no jurisdiction. It's like American Samoa dealing with Russia their not a country.  Netherlands are the ones who got the jurisdiction.  And the Peruvians are putting up a show.  You don't get toilet paper, you don't get bibles, you don't get shampoo in these prisons.  This is a show thing and we're being duped I'm telling you.  I've been in Peruvian prisons, this is a joke.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 09:14:36 PM
Must watch Burn Notice.

Bet Sharon is watching it too!

BBL

Figure out what happened today with Renfro so I can read it when I get back, OK?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:17:56 PM
Anna - prior to Joran leaving Aruba in May it was looking like Melody and Joran might have gotten back together.  There were even some facebook posts that had us wondering if Joran had just gotten her pregnant.  Anita was regularly commenting on Melody's facebook.  I don't think Melody is exaggerating about her recent contact with Joran at all.

Klaas, I am aware that you think that as do other posters.  I just don't share that line of thought as Joran considers himself a jetsetter and man of the world.  He wasn't about to settle down with some little island girl.  The world was his stage.  I think Joran was just using her, maybe even leading her on but he wasn't about to end up stuck on hellhole island.

Turns out now he would love to be back there.

.

OH Anna, I agree with that 100%.  Joran lies but he knew how to sweet talk Melody.  I don't believe for one minute he was really going to "settle down".

He just wanted some cookie.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 09:20:50 PM
Go fish for yourself.



(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/3-2.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/1-3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/2-3.jpg)



http://www.isaruba.com/Students%20life/Pictures/quarter4.html#


APRIL 25, 2010

PTO BINGO PICTURES SECTION

ANITA AND JORAN VANDERSLOOT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:21:57 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.

You mean where her gardener saw the criminals on the night of Natalee's disappearance?  Yeah, that's what I thought you said.  ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:22:47 PM
HLN is reporting Anita has borrowed money for Joran's defense from "friends", additionally that there may be more than one attorney hired, and that she plans to head to Peru in a few days.



ABC 20/20 GRANADILLO INTERVIEW


ABC News Pulls Out Checkbook for Van Der Sloot Photos; Gets Exclusive Interview
By Alex Weprin on Jun 17, 2010 05:50 PM


http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/abc/abc_news_pulls_out_checkbook_for_van_der_sloot_photos_gets_exclusive_interview_165028.asp

Tomorrow night, ABC News will present a special edition of "20/20," featuring an exclusive interview with Melony Granadillo, the ex-girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot. Van der Sloot is the alleged killer of a Peruvian woman, and is also wanted in the United States on charges related to the death of Natalee Holloway.

While news organizations maintain that they do not pay for interviews, they routinely pay "licensing fees" for photos, videos or other materials. Often the people licensing the content will then give "exclusive" interviews to the news organization that bought them.

In the case of Friday's "20/20" special, ABC News licensed photos and text messages from Granadillo, and will feature them on-air. An ABC News spokesperson tells TVNewser it will disclose that it had licensed the material during the broadcast.

The exact amount of money that ABC News paid for the photos and texts is unclear.

In March, lawyers revealed that ABC News had paid the family of Caylee Anthony $200,000 for rights to use photos and home videos. While ABC News featured another interview with the Anthony family this week tied to the anniversary of Caylee's disappearance, a network spokesperson tells us they did not license any new photos or video from the Anthonys this time.

In addition to licensing fees, news orgs will occasionally offer other perks, such as paying for hotel rooms or flights. We don't know if Granadillo was extended those perks as well.

This just raws in my craw ABC paying these murderers BLOOD MONEY of their victims. I would not watch ABC if my life depended on it...............I have not watched one show on there since they paid the murdering slore Anthony.

I WILL NEVER WATCH ABC AGAIN.  They are the enemy of my friend and the friend to my enemy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 09:25:28 PM
Anna - prior to Joran leaving Aruba in May it was looking like Melody and Joran might have gotten back together.  There were even some facebook posts that had us wondering if Joran had just gotten her pregnant.  Anita was regularly commenting on Melody's facebook.  I don't think Melody is exaggerating about her recent contact with Joran at all.

Hi Monkeys!

I agree with Klaas.

And...Joran is in more than one picture at the ISA Bingo night.  I have them all saved at home.  You can't see him as well in the others, but there's no doubt in my mind that he was there.

Last time I looked they were still on the ISA website.  IIRC he's standing in one and maybe leaning over the table in another.  The pics were dark so I had to lighten them to see him better.  I don't have them with me.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 09:25:42 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.
I noticed the man with the huge shovel.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 09:30:35 PM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat

Sorry to hear you've been in the hospital Hat.  Wishing you a speedy recovery!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 17, 2010, 09:34:29 PM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat

Sorry to hear you've been in the hospital Hat.  Wishing you a speedy recovery!

Hi Texasmom!

I must have missed this trying to work and read.........Hat we wish you a very speedy and complete recovery !


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 17, 2010, 09:35:49 PM
I was wondering what would be the odds that during the poker tourney that Joran had any sidebar discussion with other players, that might have identified Stephany as having a wealthy family?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:36:20 PM

"Now they are saying Stefany wasn't wearing any of those clothes?  Did I hear that right?"

"I thought she still had her shirt on, no?"

I have a strange feeling that Joran put his own bloody shirt on Stephany to make it look as if she was in the room waiting for him to return and wearing his shirt like they had some sort of relationship ?

"The items being shown on NG are items recovered from the room where Stefany was killed and there is a pic of the items that Urine gave the various cab drivers throughout his escape through Chile." 

Did anyone notice the watch ? It appears to be a Jacob & Co. (very pricey) and it seems I read somewhere that Joran told the cab drivers he paid over  $7,000.00 for it ?

Either it was his daddy's left to him at his time of death, or he stole it from somebody he killed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 09:37:09 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.

You mean where her gardener saw the criminals on the night of Natalee's disappearance?  Yeah, that's what I thought you said.  ;-)


No, wrong pond.  This is the pond where the witness said that he saw Joran running with one shoe
and covered with mud up to his chest.  Then he saw Paulus and Joran driving back toward the pond
in the red Jeep at around 4AM.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 09:38:07 PM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.


IMO, it's not a badge.  He probably has on a shirt similar to this.  I'm sure all the "delicious sporters" wear them.  :rolling eyes:

http://ussoccerstore.com/us00m29150810.html

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-96316601417599_2108_9190541)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jill on June 17, 2010, 09:38:43 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)

stond out of his mind with a glass of red wine sitting in front of him.

send it to People, klaas.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:40:22 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.
I noticed the man with the huge shovel.

Do you think that means they are cutting heads of snakes?  If so, watch out, renfro.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 09:40:38 PM
Good to see you, TM! :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.


IMO, it's not a badge.  He probably has on a shirt similar to this.  I'm sure all the "delicious sporters" wear them.  :rolling eyes:

http://ussoccerstore.com/us00m29150810.html

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-96316601417599_2108_9190541)

http://ussoccerstore.com/us00m112510ca.html

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-96316601417599_2110_9950888)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 17, 2010, 09:42:37 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.
I noticed the man with the huge shovel.

Do you think that means they are cutting heads of snakes?  If so, watch out, renfro.

Could someone please give me a link to catch up on this digging?  I am SO FAR behind but I am particularly interested in this about a man and shovel.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 09:43:29 PM
Good to see you, TM! :)

Thanks Magnolia!  It's good to be here.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 17, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #839 6/14/10 -
« Reply #1960 on: June 17, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »
   
When Stephanie is shown walking into the Casino and she goes up to Yoran
someone said she shook his hand. When I see that it looks to me that she
handed him something, maybe money. I've watched that often and I still
think she handed him money. Also I wonder if he beat her because she was
openly gay and that pissed him off, she also was on her period. Bottom line
is he was going to steal all her money, he was dead broke. He was a lousy
poker player and she had a reputation of being very, very good.

I think so, too.
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs591.snc3/31162_1281355845598_1581124725_601871_5687645_s.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 09:44:10 PM
It looks like a stemmed glass that caught the reflection of the light to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 09:51:24 PM
Barcelona

(http://discountsoccershop.com/images/barcelona.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/bingo.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:52:07 PM
I was wondering what would be the odds that during the poker tourney that Joran had any sidebar discussion with other players, that might have identified Stephany as having a wealthy family?



That was always my feeling.  I think Joran is pretty streetsmart.  I don't think he lets any grass grow under him before he knows the landscape and what and who is who.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 09:52:55 PM
(http://www.sportreplicas.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/b/a/barcelona-home-jersey-2009-2010.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:53:14 PM
Y'all are not going to believe this, but I still haven't heard any news from Glenda regarding my query to her about the incident in Aruba today.  I cannot fathom for what reason she would snub me!  Klaasand, no offense, but your translator needs a translator.  However, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words and I'm just wondering if Julia's son was involved in some kind of road rage/attempted car theft; I hope that's off base, but wouldn't it be cool if I actually translated something?  lol

Today's Renfro episode happened right at the witness "j"s  house near the Monserrat Pond and
the soccer field.

You mean where her gardener saw the criminals on the night of Natalee's disappearance?  Yeah, that's what I thought you said.  ;-)


No, wrong pond.  This is the pond where the witness said that he saw Joran running with one shoe
and covered with mud up to his chest.  Then he saw Paulus and Joran driving back toward the pond
in the red Jeep at around 4AM.

I realized that after I typed it.  I went back and read some notes.  I have that CRS disease and if I didn't have smart monkeys like you who did the work from which I took the notes, I would be lost. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 09:53:59 PM
It looks like a stemmed glass that caught the reflection of the light to me.

Well, one thing we should be able to agree on... it is definitely, Joran.

Anita said she hadn`t spoken to him since Paul died...

...and I am here to say...

*HELLO MEDIA*

She is as FOS as a Christmas GOOSE. :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 17, 2010, 09:55:16 PM
Melody might be older, but she is still very naive. She might be stirring something bad up for herself by doing this interview and getting her name and face out there again.   
She dated him before any of this happened, six years ago. She is not responsible for what Joran did, but to come out again in such a public fashion and stick up for him, what is the point ? Doesn't matter in Peru.
...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 09:55:25 PM
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #839 6/14/10 -
« Reply #1960 on: June 17, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »
   
When Stephanie is shown walking into the Casino and she goes up to Yoran
someone said she shook his hand. When I see that it looks to me that she
handed him something, maybe money. I've watched that often and I still
think she handed him money. Also I wonder if he beat her because she was
openly gay and that pissed him off, she also was on her period. Bottom line
is he was going to steal all her money, he was dead broke. He was a lousy
poker player and she had a reputation of being very, very good.

I think so, too.
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs591.snc3/31162_1281355845598_1581124725_601871_5687645_s.jpg)

There may have been something he had against gay people, as if you will recall, he tried to say that Natalee told him she was a lesbian.  Do you remember that?  Like WTF, what difference does it make?  You should have gotten that all worked out before you took the Viagra.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 09:55:29 PM
I'm satisfied that Joran is wearing a Barcelona soccer jersey at the Bingo event.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 09:56:06 PM
Turbo, I don't think anyone is digging for anything.  Look back a page or so for the pictures of people standing around a red car.  There are also pictures of people standing outside watching police at that area, a yellow house; Julia is wearing a black sun dress.  We don't know what happened, the translator is no help.  I doubt it has anything to do with either of "our" cases.  We're just nosy. lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 17, 2010, 10:01:45 PM
Barcelona

(http://discountsoccershop.com/images/barcelona.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/bingo.jpg)
They must be so proud of him, free advertising.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 10:02:59 PM
Hey, Y'all!  I just saw a headline about this basketball game that's on TV; it says they are battling for a CROWN!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 10:08:39 PM
Barcelona

(http://discountsoccershop.com/images/barcelona.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/bingo.jpg)

Thanks Klaas!

And thanks Carpe for bringing the other pictures too!

Sorry I didn't finish catching up before making my post about them...

I hate trying to catch up!!!!  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nychic on June 17, 2010, 10:10:29 PM
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #839 6/14/10 -
« Reply #1960 on: June 17, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »
   
When Stephanie is shown walking into the Casino and she goes up to Yoran
someone said she shook his hand. When I see that it looks to me that she
handed him something, maybe money. I've watched that often and I still
think she handed him money. Also I wonder if he beat her because she was
openly gay and that pissed him off, she also was on her period. Bottom line
is he was going to steal all her money, he was dead broke. He was a lousy
poker player and she had a reputation of being very, very good.

I think so, too.
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs591.snc3/31162_1281355845598_1581124725_601871_5687645_s.jpg)



I brought this up last week on the FP --They showed this from a different camera angle recently on NG or Greta - If someone could slow it down and follow Joran's hand to see if he adds to his stack it was possible that there was borrowing and paying back between them - The dealers should be able to clear this up


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 10:14:09 PM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
Hey, Y'all!  I just saw a headline about this basketball game that's on TV; it says they are battling for a CROWN!

LOL and I'm watching it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 17, 2010, 10:17:46 PM
http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Through translator:

cantidad by police owing to bay at monserat before one caso by action cu tiramento cantidad by police owing to bay at monserat before one caso by action cu tiramento diaranzon afternoon, owing to surgi one situation quite fastioso at monserat, where the first informe cu owing to come into cu pabao by veld by ball by deportivo nacional, have one action serious, y where had usage by arm by candela. several patrol policial owing to being send, while cu helicopter by police also owing to arise before give asistencia, in sense by busca one car cu 2 young in dje, kendenan owing to throw. informacion cu we owing to attain for by mam by one by the victimanan by tiro, cu owing to resulta by one arm by air, cu owing to injury the child at her leg, owing to give by conoce, cause by the confrontacion here, is debi at one problem cu owing to cuminsa monday madruga, where had action among are by young, cu anteriormente was depart together, but at present not more. y at present the situation owing to bay so far, cu have usage by arm by candela. another child owing to attain sla cu one cabo at her cacheta y owing to los because 5 tiro on another hobennan. in huymento, owing to strike the car on another car cu was asercando. police owing to come into in cas before investiga one que another, where owing to bay cu several pieza by bromer, already cu fiscal owing to give ordo p’esaki. kico was the cause by the confrontacion here, is being say cu had reglamento by cuenta among 2 are. apparently they will owing to steal together, y owing to surgi diferencia by opinion before cual the problem y bringamento. monday madruga, owing to beat one by the children here, cu owing to dicidi by take revenge y esey owing to conduci cu diaranzon owing to dicidi by bay n’e cas at monserat before regulation cuenta. police all the time owing to succeed laydown hand on esnan cu owing to throw y owing to detene they before more investigacion.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/RenfroMonsaratGang061710a.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/RenfroMonsaratGang061710b.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/MonseratDrugsRenfro.jpg)

(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8167/renfromap.jpg)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 10:22:02 PM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 10:22:28 PM
Anytime Texasmom - got yer backkk! ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 10:22:46 PM
Well, if Glenda won't tell me, she for sure won't tell any of y'all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 10:23:23 PM
Well, if Glenda won't tell me, she for sure won't tell any of y'all.

Well we just need to find someone that can read pap then, lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 17, 2010, 10:23:39 PM
we need to remember that sometimes things are lost in translation.  She very well may have had on a camisole or some type of light T shirt under that black Nike one. . . if she did have a shirt on as once reported.

It was also reported that Jorans shirt was covering part of her body.....maybe that's the "shirt" they meant, and not her shirt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 17, 2010, 10:24:18 PM
Hey, Y'all!  I just saw a headline about this basketball game that's on TV; it says they are battling for a CROWN!
Oh, that must be the men's basketball, the ladies battle for TIARAS.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 10:24:36 PM
Yeah, well, I'll bet Glenda could tell about it almost first-hand.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 10:26:10 PM
Hi, Kat_Gram!  I went downstairs and looked (my husband is watching it) and it is men.  You must be psychic.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 17, 2010, 10:27:44 PM
From Facebook:
Stephany Flores Ramirez and Joran Van der Sloot Case These are the exact words Joran said "There was blood everywhere," ... "What am I going to do now? I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so, I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 17, 2010, 10:29:17 PM
Hi, Kat_Gram!  I went downstairs and looked (my husband is watching it) and it is men.  You must be psychic.

and Kobe's wife gets to wear that crown first lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 17, 2010, 10:32:09 PM
Speaking of Julia Renfro and the Monserat Pond....remember this?



Local Birmingham NBC affiliate NBC13 reporter Jen Hale quotes Julia Renfro:   New witness provides new hope in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance (http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_witness_provides_new_hope_in_natalee_holloways_disappearance/64874/): 
Quote
…“There’s a bar very near there it’s open until 4 or 5 so it’s possible someone just kind of rolled into the pond,“ says Renfro…



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 17, 2010, 10:35:36 PM
All caught up and the server let me do it uninterrupted!!!  WOO HOO!!

It took me a while...........  I had to slow down when I got to the Ben Wa Balls! That's a new one on me! I don't have a clue how they could be used to pleasure women OR Joran and have the feeling that if I asked, nobody could figure out how to answer me! You guys push the envelope all the time, and there wasn't a word of explanation!! LOL!! I just have the impression that I wouldn't touch them without gloves!

2nj?? Um, why did you let that boyfriend get away??

ABC should be ashamed!

Go Lakers!!!

I'm confused about Stephany's shirt. Wasn't she found wearing a shirt? Were they saying that Stephany's shirt found with Joran?? Thanks for any help!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 10:36:28 PM
Is Kobe on Klaasand's team?  I'd ask my husband, but he's not taking questions right now.

Well, Lifesong, that sounds very blase' and I don't appreciate her tone in saying such a thing.  Some of that multiple murderer's friends might get drunk and roll into the pond, but if Natalee is in it, they put her there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 10:37:29 PM
Speaking of Julia Renfro and the Monserat Pond....remember this?



Local Birmingham NBC affiliate NBC13 reporter Jen Hale quotes Julia Renfro:   New witness provides new hope in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance (http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_witness_provides_new_hope_in_natalee_holloways_disappearance/64874/): 
Quote
…“There’s a bar very near there it’s open until 4 or 5 so it’s possible someone just kind of rolled into the pond,“ says Renfro…



She would know about the BAR


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 10:37:53 PM
Speaking of Julia Renfro and the Monserat Pond....remember this?



Local Birmingham NBC affiliate NBC13 reporter Jen Hale quotes Julia Renfro:   New witness provides new hope in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance (http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_witness_provides_new_hope_in_natalee_holloways_disappearance/64874/): 
Quote
…“There’s a bar very near there it’s open until 4 or 5 so it’s possible someone just kind of rolled into the pond,“ says Renfro…



Sort of like Stephany, she just sort of rolled off the bed...I hate Renfro almost as much as Anita, maybe more.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 10:38:14 PM
Is Kobe on Klaasand's team?  I'd ask my husband, but he's not taking questions right now.

Well, Lifesong, that sounds very blase' and I don't appreciate her tone in saying such a thing.  Some of that multiple murderer's friends might get drunk and roll into the pond, but if Natalee is in it, they put her there.

Yes, but he's not doing well right now.  Kobe is on the Lakers, the Lakers are my team. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 10:38:43 PM
Well, if Glenda won't tell me, she for sure won't tell any of y'all.

Well we just need to find someone that can read pap then, lol

I can't really read pap, but from what I can gather from the translation...there was an argument between some young people that I think had stolen some motorcycle parts.  Shots were fired near the monserrat pond.  Someone was hit by one of the bullets in the leg...and there was another injury too, but I'd have to do more translating on that one.  I'm not sure if those injured were actually part of the group arguing or just innocent bystanders.

This part says that some of the information was given by the mother of the shooting victim..."informacion cu we owing to attain for by mam by one by the victimanan by tiro, cu owing to resulta by one arm by air, cu owing to injury the child at her leg, owing to give by conoce"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 10:40:08 PM
It looks like Julia is giving them information...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 17, 2010, 10:40:54 PM
Speaking of Julia Renfro and the Monserat Pond....remember this?



Local Birmingham NBC affiliate NBC13 reporter Jen Hale quotes Julia Renfro:   New witness provides new hope in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance (http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_witness_provides_new_hope_in_natalee_holloways_disappearance/64874/): 
Quote
…“There’s a bar very near there it’s open until 4 or 5 so it’s possible someone just kind of rolled into the pond,“ says Renfro…



She would know about the BAR
That's one woman that doesn't get any better looking at closing time! I shudder at how much alcohol it would take to "drink her palatable".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 10:44:15 PM
Speaking of Julia Renfro and the Monserat Pond....remember this?



Local Birmingham NBC affiliate NBC13 reporter Jen Hale quotes Julia Renfro:   New witness provides new hope in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance (http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_witness_provides_new_hope_in_natalee_holloways_disappearance/64874/): 
Quote
…“There’s a bar very near there it’s open until 4 or 5 so it’s possible someone just kind of rolled into the pond,“ says Renfro…



She would know about the BAR
That's one woman that doesn't get any better looking at closing time! I shudder at how much alcohol it would take to "drink her palatable".

10 Pisco sours
5 Double dog dare-yas

and

1 Jinkasaurus! :)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/DogzillaDinosaurDogCostume.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 10:44:27 PM
Well, if Glenda won't tell me, she for sure won't tell any of y'all.

I don't know of anyone else here that would even bother trying to ask her, lol.

I'd bank more on a halfass translation than what she says any day!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2010, 10:46:33 PM
Speaking of Julia Renfro and the Monserat Pond....remember this?



Local Birmingham NBC affiliate NBC13 reporter Jen Hale quotes Julia Renfro:   New witness provides new hope in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance (http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_witness_provides_new_hope_in_natalee_holloways_disappearance/64874/): 
Quote
…“There’s a bar very near there it’s open until 4 or 5 so it’s possible someone just kind of rolled into the pond,“ says Renfro…



She would know about the BAR
That's one woman that doesn't get any better looking at closing time! I shudder at how much alcohol it would take to "drink her palatable".

10 Pisco sours
5 Double dog dare-yas

and

1 Jinkasaurus! :)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/DogzillaDinosaurDogCostume.jpg)

OMG, ROFLMAO! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 17, 2010, 10:47:36 PM
Is Kobe on Klaasand's team?  I'd ask my husband, but he's not taking questions right now.

Well, Lifesong, that sounds very blase' and I don't appreciate her tone in saying such a thing.  Some of that multiple murderer's friends might get drunk and roll into the pond, but if Natalee is in it, they put her there.

Yes, but he's not doing well right now.  Kobe is on the Lakers, the Lakers are my team. 

Does Lamar Odom (Khloe's bank account) play for the Lakers?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 17, 2010, 10:50:48 PM
Is Kobe on Klaasand's team?  I'd ask my husband, but he's not taking questions right now.

Well, Lifesong, that sounds very blase' and I don't appreciate her tone in saying such a thing.  Some of that multiple murderer's friends might get drunk and roll into the pond, but if Natalee is in it, they put her there.

Yes, but he's not doing well right now.  Kobe is on the Lakers, the Lakers are my team. 

Does Lamar Odom (Khloe's bank account) play for the Lakers?

LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 17, 2010, 10:52:38 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Again, no, Mellany would say her phone bill in florins and not euros.  Ludwick likely in florins or dollars.  I think it is ssomebody in NL or even Thailand.


Melony is exaggerating her contacts with Joran to enhance her ability to sell interviews, etc.



Kirk Atkinson aka WhiteOut the co-owner of the coffee shop in Thailand, now the owner?  Very possible.


Hello Monkeys.  Great to see all the old familiar names posting.  It is a struggle to keep up with events but I am pleased to see the lying, murdering monster is where he belongs - in a hell hole with all the other dregs of mankind.

Klaas not sure of where this Kirk Atkinson comes from but it is a very British name and the Brits rarely talk easily in Euros as they still favour their Pounds.

Also anyone in Thailand would not talk in Euros as in those parts of Asia the common foreign currency is American Dollars.  Everything in their currency is instantly converted to US$ for tourists.  The tourists then have to do their own calculation to their currency to see what the items are actually worth to them, and if they are a bargain or not.

Hope this helps,


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: TexasRick007 on June 17, 2010, 10:55:02 PM
Speaking of Julia Renfro and the Monserat Pond....remember this?



Local Birmingham NBC affiliate NBC13 reporter Jen Hale quotes Julia Renfro:   New witness provides new hope in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance (http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_witness_provides_new_hope_in_natalee_holloways_disappearance/64874/): 
Quote
…“There’s a bar very near there it’s open until 4 or 5 so it’s possible someone just kind of rolled into the pond,“ says Renfro…



Sort of like Stephany, she just sort of rolled off the bed...I hate Renfro almost as much as Anita, maybe more.

Anita has an excuse - she's a mother protecting her son, and the mother-child bond causes parents to do a lot of things they normally wouldn't do otherwise. I'm not trying to soften all of the pain Anita has caused, but I have (barely) one iota of understanding toward her.

Julia, on the other hand, is absolutely pure sickness and evil. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 17, 2010, 10:58:10 PM
Amazed at all the Monkey memories of this case...the details...everything that went on... way more than I have retained about this case.

I believe Joran drugged Stephany and she woke up to find him assaulting her...she fought back...it got ugly really quick.  Does it make sense to any woman here that you're with a man who is more than a foot taller than you and bigger that if you saw a FB post come across re: Natalee Holloway, that you would take a swing at this guy?  I DON'T THINK SO. You'd be thinking "How the hell am I going to get out of here safely?"   I think the drug and sex routine was Joran's MO....and that's what happened here.  How else could you explain the violence, the blood, the eye torn out of the socket?  Just disgusting....

Also amazed at the openness of the Peruvian system....to see Joran's cell (which wasn't disgusting enough, IMO...altho no toilet paper?  Yikes...).....we have seen things that we would never see here.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 17, 2010, 10:59:35 PM
What moron/friend/relative would lend Anita money to visit/defend her son?  That's a ZERO return on investment, to be sure....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 11:00:47 PM
That sounds like a reasonable possibility, Annie; anything that multiple murderer says is a lie.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 17, 2010, 11:01:35 PM
Well, Annie, maybe they want to get her off her property so they can search it. lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 17, 2010, 11:04:03 PM
Hi Tibro

Kirk is an American living in Thailand. I think he's from Massachusetts.  He was one of Joran's Thailand friends.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 11:05:29 PM
Tibro - Very informative. Good stuff. thank you!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 17, 2010, 11:06:51 PM
Hi Tibro

Kirk is an American living in Thailand. I think he's from Massachusetts.  He was one of Joran's Thailand friends.


Hi Klaas

OK so he is even less likely to "talk" in Euros, and thus would put this discussion firmly with someone in the NL.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 17, 2010, 11:10:12 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Again, no, Mellany would say her phone bill in florins and not euros.  Ludwick likely in florins or dollars.  I think it is ssomebody in NL or even Thailand.


Melony is exaggerating her contacts with Joran to enhance her ability to sell interviews, etc.


I thought it was that Jaap guy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 11:12:09 PM

Comment section from the Granadillo article on Peru 21.

----

'Ex' of Van der Sloot frightened by crime

Granadillo Melody met in Aruba the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores when he was 17. He said it was romantic and playful.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/496605/ex-van-der-sloot-asustada-crimen


----

# 1 | June 17, 2010 | 6:46:05 PM

Ricardo
Who the hell wants to know if the animal that was in love or not? Please do not give coverage to such nonsense.

# 2 | June 17, 2010 | 7:18:07 PM

Dreyfus
To take him once to USA to rot in jail and ready.

# 3 | June 17, 2010 | 7:41:55 PM

GIRL FRIEND
REASON WITH ME ALWAYS TAKE A RIDE TO THE CLIFFS!

# 4 | June 17, 2010 | 7:43:18 PM

lala
that the power of the media, stupid transmit, broadcast because it sells therefore unclear whether all this mass media with this type of information, news without relevancia.es a shame that the newspaper Peru 21 that got well as the tabloids.

# 5 | June 17, 2010 | 8:37:16 PM

Miraflores
CLARO. ERA LINDO Y BUENO. SHAVE WITH A KNIFE FOR CUTTING: lead me to walk to the cliffs and always had a stone in his hand ...

-----

Woohooo!!! These people think just like we do. I wanna have a house party, invite them all over ... and shake my maracasssss!!!! Brrrrrrrreeee haaaaaaaaaa


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 11:12:48 PM
Carpe and all, Thanks for the pictures of the soccer shirts.  It still looks like a gold badge to me but it makes more sense that it is a soccer shirt.  Not being a fan, I am not that familiar with them.

Still one goofy looking pciture.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 17, 2010, 11:21:59 PM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Again, no, Mellany would say her phone bill in florins and not euros.  Ludwick likely in florins or dollars.  I think it is ssomebody in NL or even Thailand.


Melony is exaggerating her contacts with Joran to enhance her ability to sell interviews, etc.



Kirk Atkinson aka WhiteOut the co-owner of the coffee shop in Thailand, now the owner?  Very possible.


Hello Monkeys.  Great to see all the old familiar names posting.  It is a struggle to keep up with events but I am pleased to see the lying, murdering monster is where he belongs - in a hell hole with all the other dregs of mankind.

Klaas not sure of where this Kirk Atkinson comes from but it is a very British name and the Brits rarely talk easily in Euros as they still favour their Pounds.

Also anyone in Thailand would not talk in Euros as in those parts of Asia the common foreign currency is American Dollars.  Everything in their currency is instantly converted to US$ for tourists.  The tourists then have to do their own calculation to their currency to see what the items are actually worth to them, and if they are a bargain or not.

Hope this helps,

{{{HUGS}}} Miss Tib !!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 17, 2010, 11:29:04 PM
So if Anita claims she hasn't seen Joran since Paulus died, (likely a lie because of the bingo photo) then where has Joran been living?  If he was not living with Anita, was he staying at one of those expensive hotels all that time?  How could he afford that?  Maybe that's why he was so desperate to be extorting money from his victim's family.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 11:34:23 PM
So if Anita claims she hasn't seen Joran since Paulus died, (likely a lie because of the bingo photo) then where has Joran been living?  If he was not living with Anita, was he staying at one of those expensive hotels all that time?  How could he afford that?  Maybe that's why he was so desperate to be extorting money from his victim's family.

That`s a great question - I wish I had the answer to it? Some of the time he may have been hanging out with John Lugnut. The rest of the time? Lorenzo? Anybody who would let him crash?

John said the tourists on the island gave him hell on the streets. I imagine to any hotel Joran would be the kiss of black death. Dunno, Anna.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 17, 2010, 11:35:43 PM
So if Anita claims she hasn't seen Joran since Paulus died, (likely a lie because of the bingo photo) then where has Joran been living?  If he was not living with Anita, was he staying at one of those expensive hotels all that time?  How could he afford that?  Maybe that's why he was so desperate to be extorting money from his victim's family.

In one of the John Q Kelley interviews, he says that when he met with Joran in May that Joran had
walked to JQK's hotel "from his home" and was dripping in sweat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 17, 2010, 11:43:31 PM
Joran may have been shacking up with Boeti on the beach!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 17, 2010, 11:45:16 PM
So if Anita claims she hasn't seen Joran since Paulus died, (likely a lie because of the bingo photo) then where has Joran been living?  If he was not living with Anita, was he staying at one of those expensive hotels all that time?  How could he afford that?  Maybe that's why he was so desperate to be extorting money from his victim's family.

In one of the John Q Kelley interviews, he says that when he met with Joran in May that Joran had
walked to JQK's hotel "from his home" and was dripping in sweat.
That is a family trait -- not indicative of distance walked!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Mon Quixote on June 17, 2010, 11:46:57 PM
I'm satisfied that Joran is wearing a Barcelona soccer jersey at the Bingo event.

Yippers.  Me to.  I've said it a thousand times, Klaas, you so rock!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 17, 2010, 11:48:58 PM
So if Anita claims she hasn't seen Joran since Paulus died, (likely a lie because of the bingo photo) then where has Joran been living?  If he was not living with Anita, was he staying at one of those expensive hotels all that time?  How could he afford that?  Maybe that's why he was so desperate to be extorting money from his victim's family.

In one of the John Q Kelley interviews, he says that when he met with Joran in May that Joran had
walked to JQK's hotel "from his home" and was dripping in sweat.

great recall Magnolia


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 17, 2010, 11:56:16 PM
Somewhere, it was said that Joran and Anita weren't getting along because Joran was gambling a lot. I would assume that they were living together, because otherwise I doubt she would know what he was doing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 17, 2010, 11:56:20 PM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 18, 2010, 12:03:26 AM
Somewhere, it was said that Joran and Anita weren't getting along because Joran was gambling a lot. I would assume that they were living together, because otherwise I doubt she would know what he was doing.
Will anita go to Peru? I think that she has already started her negotiations with numerous TV shows for interviews!!!! she already did BINGO with his Monster (mad face)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 12:15:39 AM
Somewhere, it was said that Joran and Anita weren't getting along because Joran was gambling a lot. I would assume that they were living together, because otherwise I doubt she would know what he was doing.
Will anita go to Peru? I think that she has already started her negotiations with numerous TV shows for interviews!!!! she already did BINGO with his Monster (mad face)

I hope she does Cecilita! They need to give her a nice big Peruvian welcome.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 12:16:19 AM
Joran may have been shacking up with Boeti on the beach!!

I've lost track of when he was sentenced but I think Boeti should still be in KIA on the narcotics charge.  I think he got either 4 or 6 years...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:22:41 AM
So if Anita claims she hasn't seen Joran since Paulus died, (likely a lie because of the bingo photo) then where has Joran been living?  If he was not living with Anita, was he staying at one of those expensive hotels all that time?  How could he afford that?  Maybe that's why he was so desperate to be extorting money from his victim's family.

In one of the John Q Kelley interviews, he says that when he met with Joran in May that Joran had
walked to JQK's hotel "from his home" and was dripping in sweat.


Well, since everybody on that island knows everything and everybody else's business, I am sure people know this and therefore know Anita is just lying.  Yet she wants people to chip in for her airfare and attorney for Joran.

Even Aruba has to be getting sick of Sloots.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 18, 2010, 12:22:52 AM
Somewhere, it was said that Joran and Anita weren't getting along because Joran was gambling a lot. I would assume that they were living together, because otherwise I doubt she would know what he was doing.
Will anita go to Peru? I think that she has already started her negotiations with numerous TV shows for interviews!!!! she already did BINGO with his Monster (mad face)

I hope she does Cecilita! They need to give her a nice big Peruvian welcome.
I heard that she is asking for money to her friends to go to Peru (surprise face). Maybe she is planning to play in the Peruvian casinos and the now monster must be scared that her mom is going to Peru with money for his defense and..... lots of casinos to visit (OK face)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 18, 2010, 12:23:06 AM


{{{HUGS}}} Miss Tib !!

Hi None and Hugs. Glad your work and travel are allowing you to spend time here lately.  I have been finding it difficult to keep up here, just reading, with duties and allergies to contend with.  Send me an email some time


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 12:23:59 AM
Hey Woodsy!

You know big daddy is coming. Nightvision goggles. You won`t hear a thing.

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepak3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/satish4.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 12:24:30 AM
Joran may have been shacking up with Boeti on the beach!!

I've lost track of when he was sentenced but I think Boeti should still be in KIA on the narcotics charge.  I think he got either 4 or 6 years...

Without getting my reading glasses I think it says he got 4 years 6 months, and that was in Oct 2008...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3747.msg519910#msg519910

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Misc%20News%202/10292008XavierNaar01.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 12:25:09 AM
A FATHER’S DESPERATION! A FATHER’S ANGUISH!

Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 42:
I grasped at straws. I was desperate. I bloodied by hands from ripping up rocks on the beach in the hopes of finding one tiny shred of evidence. I performed the revolting task of tearing through the contents of a garbage dump in search of my daughter’s body. I scoured crack houses looking to see if Natalee was being held captive in one of them. When officials found out that Americans were going into those places and shaking things up, they became infuriated and told me to back off.

I am a father who has no idea what has happened to my child. The questions run through my mind all day long. They keep me awake at night. Is she dead? Is she alive? Is she being held captive somewhere? Are they hurting her? Is she crying out for me? I need to know. I need to find some peace, one way or another.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:26:34 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.



And she is putting Aruba in the media in a very bad light by connecting it to Joran yet again.

AHATA/ATA can't be happy with Melody for doing this strange article even if it is sort of in defense of the monster.

It's still very bad for tourism.

Maybe this will result in a fracture in the island cohesion, this and Anita's antics.  I would love to see all of them turn on the Sloot faction.  Maybe then we would actually get some answers.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 12:27:32 AM


{{{HUGS}}} Miss Tib !!

Hi None and Hugs. Glad your work and travel are allowing you to spend time here lately.  I have been finding it difficult to keep up here, just reading, with duties and allergies to contend with.  Send me an email some time


Good to see you Tibro!  I feel for you with the allergies...hope you're better soon!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 12:30:54 AM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Again, no, Mellany would say her phone bill in florins and not euros.  Ludwick likely in florins or dollars.  I think it is ssomebody in NL or even Thailand.


Melony is exaggerating her contacts with Joran to enhance her ability to sell interviews, etc.



Kirk Atkinson aka WhiteOut the co-owner of the coffee shop in Thailand, now the owner?  Very possible.


Hello Monkeys.  Great to see all the old familiar names posting.  It is a struggle to keep up with events but I am pleased to see the lying, murdering monster is where he belongs - in a hell hole with all the other dregs of mankind.

Klaas not sure of where this Kirk Atkinson comes from but it is a very British name and the Brits rarely talk easily in Euros as they still favour their Pounds.

Also anyone in Thailand would not talk in Euros as in those parts of Asia the common foreign currency is American Dollars.  Everything in their currency is instantly converted to US$ for tourists.  The tourists then have to do their own calculation to their currency to see what the items are actually worth to them, and if they are a bargain or not.

Hope this helps,

The blog publishes an instant-message exchange it says is between Van der Sloot and a 20-year-old girlfriend five days before Flores was killed. In it, he asks her to wire him 300 euros in Peru. He claims his wallet has been stolen.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&pid=0&sid=1979526&page=3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 18, 2010, 12:35:28 AM
Tibro - Very informative. Good stuff. thank you!

You're welcome, Carpe

We have travelled to some parts of Asia but never Thailand, even though we know some very nice Thai people living here.  It has a very bad reputation in this part of the world for being a pervert's paradise.  Child pornography and prostitution is only a couple of their offerings for locals and tourists.  For those who do "pick-up" a girl for a night's entertainment the surprise can be that she is a male.  They have some disgusting practices and all manner of deviants - very few decent living people go there unless with a reputable travel group.

Joran chose the right place for his proclivities.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:38:54 AM
Good to see you, Tibro!

And I also believe Thailand does not have extradition treaty with The Netherlands.  I don't think Joran wanted sent back after being chased through the streets.

They do have caning, I believe.  I had always hoped he would be caught doing something illegal there and be caned.

Just a personal fantasy of mine, lol.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 12:39:20 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.


Maybe he was the official Bingo police?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:40:38 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 18, 2010, 12:40:58 AM


{{{HUGS}}} Miss Tib !!

Hi None and Hugs. Glad your work and travel are allowing you to spend time here lately.  I have been finding it difficult to keep up here, just reading, with duties and allergies to contend with.  Send me an email some time


Good to see you Tibro!  I feel for you with the allergies...hope you're better soon!

Hi TxMom.  Thank you.  Wrong time of year for allergies here but I keep managing to find something that disagrees with me lol

Hope all is well with you.  Appreciate your help with the translations.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:42:29 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.


Maybe he was the official Bingo police?


Well, I guessed Bingo Patrol as they like that word in Aruba.  But seems it is more likely just his favorite soccer shirt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 12:43:55 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 18, 2010, 12:46:58 AM
Good Night Monkeys

Eyes are hurting...been trying to catch up.

God BLESS!!

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE and STEPHANY!!

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:47:05 AM
TxMom, Agree and we know where they are going with this idea that Joran was so wonderful before all the accusations.

But the facts say otherwise.  Even Jossy has talked about how Joran bullied and took things at school and had a bad reputation.  He was in therapy for beating up another kid at school.  I think it was required so he could be allowed to attend.
One sick puppy all his life.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 18, 2010, 12:52:24 AM
Good to see you, Tibro!

And I also believe Thailand does not have extradition treaty with The Netherlands.  I don't think Joran wanted sent back after being chased through the streets.

They do have caning, I believe.  I had always hoped he would be caught doing something illegal there and be caned.

Just a personal fantasy of mine, lol.

.

Hi Anna.  LOL about the caning but I think that could be on their list of fun things to do in Thailand.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 12:52:25 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about! 
I think someone stole that red car.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Port Valerie on June 18, 2010, 12:53:20 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!

Black is not anybody's color in a tropical climate during the day. Black is for cold weather and cities and night-time. Black calls for real shoes or boots, not dusty sandals. Doesn't she know anything?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 12:55:22 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.


Maybe he was the official Bingo police?

Maybe he was the official bingo caller....... you know the guy that catches the balls and calls out the numbers.  Maybe they paid him in Bwa Ha Balls..... or whatever they are.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:57:26 AM
Did that incident today really happen at the home of the witness "J" and what does that mean?  Am I reading too much into that or does it mean something?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 12:59:04 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!

Black is not anybody's color in a tropical climate during the day. Black is for cold weather and cities and night-time. Black calls for real shoes or boots, not dusty sandals. Doesn't she know anything?

LOL, guess not


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 12:59:57 AM
What moron/friend/relative would lend Anita money to visit/defend her son?  That's a ZERO return on investment, to be sure....
Perhaps it was the same uncle who paid for the damages on the house that Joran rented in Thailand.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 01:00:39 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about! 
I think someone stole that red car.

In scanning the article again, I see where 2 of the young people were in a car...I think maybe the ones doing the shooting but I'm not sure.  I think maybe when they were trying to get away they hit another car.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 01:00:48 AM
Did that incident today really happen at the home of the witness "J" and what does that mean?  Am I reading too much into that or does it mean something?

It really did happen in that area.  Likely we are reading too much into it because I believe Renfro lives near "J".   Still nice to see Renfro without a drink or camera in her hand and with a boatload of cops around.  :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:01:34 AM
The reporting on what Joran did in Peru is really bad.  The media says one thing one day and another the next.

But in the end I don't suppose it matters as they have Joran six ways to Sunday anyway.  It's not one of those times we have to try to figure out what happened.  He's a goner no matter.

But I did think he had a little too much zip in his step today in that video Jinkasaurus had.  Doesn't appear to be weak and failing from lack of nutrition or sleep.  I hope he gets put in the general population soon. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 01:03:53 AM
Mon Quixote said that she could translate Spanish and some Portuguese.

Maybe she could give the Julia article a lookyloo.  Please


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: spooky112483 on June 18, 2010, 01:04:33 AM
O/T
Klass!!!!!!!! We did it!!!!!
Go Lakers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:04:45 AM
Did that incident today really happen at the home of the witness "J" and what does that mean?  Am I reading too much into that or does it mean something?

It really did happen in that area.  Likely we are reading too much into it because I believe Renfro lives near "J".   Still nice to see Renfro without a drink or camera in her hand and with a boatload of cops around.  :)


Well, the day that Dave leaves, there is gunplay at the home of  the witness, it's hard not to read anything into that.  But you are right--not everything that happens in Aruba is connected to Natalee's disappearance.

Just wondering how Julia ties into it all.  Too bad they didn't arrest her and put her in handcuffs. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 01:05:46 AM
TxMom, Agree and we know where they are going with this idea that Joran was so wonderful before all the accusations.

But the facts say otherwise.  Even Jossy has talked about how Joran bullied and took things at school and had a bad reputation.  He was in therapy for beating up another kid at school.  I think it was required so he could be allowed to attend.
One sick puppy all his life.


I agree Anna.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 01:06:50 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.


Maybe he was the official Bingo police?

Maybe he was the official bingo caller....... you know the guy that catches the balls and calls out the numbers.  Maybe they paid him in Bwa Ha Balls..... or whatever they are.

CBB - that's really funny!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 01:07:31 AM
Did that incident today really happen at the home of the witness "J" and what does that mean?  Am I reading too much into that or does it mean something?

It really did happen in that area.  Likely we are reading too much into it because I believe Renfro lives near "J".   Still nice to see Renfro without a drink or camera in her hand and with a boatload of cops around.  :)

....and no makeup.  It looked like she was crying in one picture.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 01:08:50 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!

Black is not anybody's color in a tropical climate during the day. Black is for cold weather and cities and night-time. Black calls for real shoes or boots, not dusty sandals. Doesn't she know anything?

Yeah, but it comes off with one jerk. I'm sure that saves her valuable time several times a day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 01:09:48 AM
The reporting on what Joran did in Peru is really bad.  The media says one thing one day and another the next.

But in the end I don't suppose it matters as they have Joran six ways to Sunday anyway.  It's not one of those times we have to try to figure out what happened.  He's a goner no matter.

But I did think he had a little too much zip in his step today in that video Jinkasaurus had.  Doesn't appear to be weak and failing from lack of nutrition or sleep.  I hope he gets put in the general population soon. 

I hope so too, Anna.

I did wonder if Anita sent him those new clothes, toiletries and books to read or if they were brought by the embassy or what.  I'm guessing the embassy, but I must admit I was disappointed that he wasn't still wearing the same crappy khaki's he was arrested in.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 01:09:51 AM
O/T
Klass!!!!!!!! We did it!!!!!
Go Lakers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A nail biter!  Yep!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 01:10:25 AM
Mon Quixote said that she could translate Spanish and some Portuguese.

Maybe she could give the Julia article a lookyloo.  Please

That would be GREAT!  SandyLeiva's good at translating too, but I haven't seen her around lately.

I really, really miss Getagrip!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 01:10:36 AM
Did that incident today really happen at the home of the witness "J" and what does that mean?  Am I reading too much into that or does it mean something?

It really did happen in that area.  Likely we are reading too much into it because I believe Renfro lives near "J".   Still nice to see Renfro without a drink or camera in her hand and with a boatload of cops around.  :)


Well, the day that Dave leaves, there is gunplay at the home of  the witness, it's hard not to read anything into that.  But you are right--not everything that happens in Aruba is connected to Natalee's disappearance.

Just wondering how Julia ties into it all.  Too bad they didn't arrest her and put her in handcuffs. 
Maybe it was her kid that got shot in the leg?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 01:10:59 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!

Black is not anybody's color in a tropical climate during the day. Black is for cold weather and cities and night-time. Black calls for real shoes or boots, not dusty sandals. Doesn't she know anything?

Yeah, but it comes off with one jerk. I'm sure that saves her valuable time several times a day.

roflmao


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Port Valerie on June 18, 2010, 01:12:09 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!

Black is not anybody's color in a tropical climate during the day. Black is for cold weather and cities and night-time. Black calls for real shoes or boots, not dusty sandals. Doesn't she know anything?

Yeah, but it comes off with one jerk. I'm sure that saves her valuable time several times a day.

So you are saying it comes off with one jerk after another, all day long.






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 01:12:26 AM
Did that incident today really happen at the home of the witness "J" and what does that mean?  Am I reading too much into that or does it mean something?

It really did happen in that area.  Likely we are reading too much into it because I believe Renfro lives near "J".   Still nice to see Renfro without a drink or camera in her hand and with a boatload of cops around.  :)


Well, the day that Dave leaves, there is gunplay at the home of  the witness, it's hard not to read anything into that.  But you are right--not everything that happens in Aruba is connected to Natalee's disappearance.

Just wondering how Julia ties into it all.  Too bad they didn't arrest her and put her in handcuffs. 
Maybe it was her kid that got shot in the leg?
Maybe Poppin' Fresh shot Ho Jr.?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 01:12:56 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!

Black is not anybody's color in a tropical climate during the day. Black is for cold weather and cities and night-time. Black calls for real shoes or boots, not dusty sandals. Doesn't she know anything?

Yeah, but it comes off with one jerk. I'm sure that saves her valuable time several times a day.

OMG, that's funny...I don't care who you are.  LMAO!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 01:13:47 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.


Maybe he was the official Bingo police?

Maybe he was the official bingo caller....... you know the guy that catches the balls and calls out the numbers.  Maybe they paid him in Bwa Ha Balls..... or whatever they are.

CBB - that's really funny!



Bwa Ha Ha Ha?

They look like lamp finials to me....... I know what they are!!!  <monkey jumpy jacks>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 01:13:56 AM
The reporting on what Joran did in Peru is really bad.  The media says one thing one day and another the next.

But in the end I don't suppose it matters as they have Joran six ways to Sunday anyway.  It's not one of those times we have to try to figure out what happened.  He's a goner no matter.

But I did think he had a little too much zip in his step today in that video Jinkasaurus had.  Doesn't appear to be weak and failing from lack of nutrition or sleep.  I hope he gets put in the general population soon. 

I hope so too, Anna.

I did wonder if Anita sent him those new clothes, toiletries and books to read or if they were brought by the embassy or what.  I'm guessing the embassy, but I must admit I was disappointed that he wasn't still wearing the same crappy khaki's he was arrested in.


I really think the orange shirt he had on was the same shirt he was wearing under the sweatshirt when he was arrested. I think the pants have been washed. The toiletries, books, etc. were probably what was brought in from his Dutch Embassy visitors.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 01:14:17 AM
Good night Monkeys!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 18, 2010, 01:15:52 AM
The reporting on what Joran did in Peru is really bad.  The media says one thing one day and another the next.

But in the end I don't suppose it matters as they have Joran six ways to Sunday anyway.  It's not one of those times we have to try to figure out what happened.  He's a goner no matter.

But I did think he had a little too much zip in his step today in that video Jinkasaurus had.  Doesn't appear to be weak and failing from lack of nutrition or sleep.  I hope he gets put in the general population soon. 

I hope so too, Anna.

I did wonder if Anita sent him those new clothes, toiletries and books to read or if they were brought by the embassy or what.  I'm guessing the embassy, but I must admit I was disappointed that he wasn't still wearing the same crappy khaki's he was arrested in.


I really think the orange shirt he had on was the same shirt he was wearing under the sweatshirt when he was arrested. I think the pants have been washed. The toiletries, books, etc. were probably what was brought in from his Dutch Embassy visitors.

I think so too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 01:16:23 AM

Goodnight, texasmom & God Bless!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 01:17:36 AM
clarifying:

finials............. I know what finials are.......

Congrats Laker Fans!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 01:19:44 AM
Night texasmom! Sleep well and God Bless!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 01:24:31 AM


Leaving a little shout-out here for KeeptheFaith and HotPing.  Hope you both are well - happy and healthy and all that jazz.  We miss you here on the boards!

Today...
Justice for Natalee
Is Another Day Closer!


Kalpoes Are ChickenSh*t Punk Azz Losers



Aruba Sucks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 01:25:55 AM
O/T
Klass!!!!!!!! We did it!!!!!
Go Lakers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Spooky!  How goes it?

Congratulations on the win!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 01:28:25 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.


Maybe he was the official Bingo police?

Maybe he was the official bingo caller....... you know the guy that catches the balls and calls out the numbers.  Maybe they paid him in Bwa Ha Balls..... or whatever they are.

CBB - that's really funny!



Ha Ha Balls!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 01:30:52 AM
The reporting on what Joran did in Peru is really bad.  The media says one thing one day and another the next.

But in the end I don't suppose it matters as they have Joran six ways to Sunday anyway.  It's not one of those times we have to try to figure out what happened.  He's a goner no matter.

But I did think he had a little too much zip in his step today in that video Jinkasaurus had.  Doesn't appear to be weak and failing from lack of nutrition or sleep.  I hope he gets put in the general population soon. 

I hope so too, Anna.

I did wonder if Anita sent him those new clothes, toiletries and books to read or if they were brought by the embassy or what.  I'm guessing the embassy, but I must admit I was disappointed that he wasn't still wearing the same crappy khaki's he was arrested in.



Kaka khakis.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:34:16 AM
Did that incident today really happen at the home of the witness "J" and what does that mean?  Am I reading too much into that or does it mean something?

It really did happen in that area.  Likely we are reading too much into it because I believe Renfro lives near "J".   Still nice to see Renfro without a drink or camera in her hand and with a boatload of cops around.  :)


Well, the day that Dave leaves, there is gunplay at the home of  the witness, it's hard not to read anything into that.  But you are right--not everything that happens in Aruba is connected to Natalee's disappearance.

Just wondering how Julia ties into it all.  Too bad they didn't arrest her and put her in handcuffs. 
Maybe it was her kid that got shot in the leg?
Maybe Poppin' Fresh shot Ho Jr.?

Well, he's gotta start somewhere--can't just turn into fullbloom sociopath like his brother overnight.  Too funny, Lifesong.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 01:34:47 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.


Maybe he was the official Bingo police?

Maybe he was the official bingo caller....... you know the guy that catches the balls and calls out the numbers.  Maybe they paid him in Bwa Ha Balls..... or whatever they are.

CBB - that's really funny!



Ha Ha Balls!



Oh Goody!!! Bearly's here!! Hey Miss Bear? PM me what those things are, will you, huh, huh?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 01:36:21 AM
clarifying:

finials............. I know what finials are.......

Congrats Laker Fans!!!

We know what you know and it wasn't about finials.  I think I saw them on your night stand, right next to the bedpost with the fuzzy handcuffs.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: IBE on June 18, 2010, 01:38:14 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:40:56 AM
Tomorrow is another day and one day closer to Justice for Natalee.  But now it is so much easier waiting because we know that Joran is not on free feet and enjoying his life.  Prayers for the Flores family and Stephany in their grief and loss.

But my heart does not feel so heavy now just knowing that Joran is being punished.  I know it is wrong to take delight in another suffering but in his case, I just can't help it.  It makes me smile. 

:-)

Goodnight, all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 01:42:59 AM
clarifying:

finials............. I know what finials are.......

Congrats Laker Fans!!!

We know what you know and it wasn't about finials.  I think I saw them on your night stand, right next to the bedpost with the fuzzy handcuffs.





I'm sure you're mistaken! You must have seen my halo on it's special resting place for when I sleep.

I just saw Joran in his orange shirt on NG rerun. As a UT fan, I object that they put him in orange!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jesdamala on June 18, 2010, 01:44:17 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I believe her mother's name is Marielena Ramirez. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 18, 2010, 01:47:37 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about!  

I don't read Portuguese very well, but I can read some Haitian Creole Portuguese so I can pick up a few words here and there. If I read this correctly there was a car which slammed another car (couldn't tell if it was an accident or deliberate) the police were there and there were 5 men in one car who started shooting. There was some kind of gun fight. It appears it was some type of gang fight. They sent up a helicopter to find a car that got away. The victim was taken to Hopi hospital in Montserrat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 18, 2010, 01:49:52 AM
John Ludwick Tonight at the CNN DC studio I hung out, shot the breeze, and watched some of the Lakers-Celtics game with millionaire Ben Stein, host of "Win Ben Stein's Money", "America's Most Smartest Model", CNN contributor, and aka the "Clear Eyes" commercials guy with the distinctive voice. He's mad cool, and he showed me nothing but respect for standing up for my boy Joran. And he is a huge REDSKINS fan also!!!

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

_______________

what an @ss


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 18, 2010, 01:50:46 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about!  

I don't read Portuguese very well, but I can read some Haitian Creole Portuguese so I can pick up a few words here and there. If I read this correctly there was a car which slammed another car (couldn't tell if it was an accident or deliberate) the police were there and there were 5 men in one car who started shooting. There was some kind of gun fight. It appears it was some type of gang fight. They sent up a helicopter to find a car that got away. The victim was taken to Hopi hospital in Montserrat.

Thanks Turbo!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: IBE on June 18, 2010, 01:51:14 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I believe her mother's name is Marielena Ramirez. 



Oh thank you for someone in the last thread said she (Lourdes) was Stephany's mother.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jesdamala on June 18, 2010, 01:52:53 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I believe her mother's name is Marielena Ramirez. 



Oh thank you for someone in the last thread said she (Lourdes) was Stephany's mother.

Here is a link to a photo of Stephany's mother at the funeral.  This is very sad.

http://topics.pe.com/photo/0fpJauYf7ccD4



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: justinsmama on June 18, 2010, 01:53:20 AM
Tomorrow is another day and one day closer to Justice for Natalee.  But now it is so much easier waiting because we know that Joran is not on free feet and enjoying his life.  Prayers for the Flores family and Stephany in their grief and loss.

But my heart does not feel so heavy now just knowing that Joran is being punished.  I know it is wrong to take delight in another suffering but in his case, I just can't help it.  It makes me smile. 

:-)

Goodnight, all.

Me too, Anna, me too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Hat on June 18, 2010, 01:59:03 AM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat

A stent Hat?  They have gotten so good at that technology!  Get plenty of rest.  GO LAKERS! 

P.S.  Just because you now have a Boston implant is no reason to root for them in tonight :)
Ha! Good one Klaas. Got a stent in Jan after sudden cardiac you know what. God took a long look (5 day coma) and said this one's not ready yet. Thanks for all the good wishes everybody.

Went yesterday for Boston Sci Defib implant. Now have one really buff pec.

Sometimes I think God chooses the best among us to join him as a lesson to those left behind.

Other times I think the evil that men do steals the innocent away and it is down to us to call for justice.

That fellowship is why I come to this board. I don't think I am wrong. So many are good and wise.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Hat on June 18, 2010, 02:20:01 AM
I'm satisfied that Joran is wearing a Barcelona soccer jersey at the Bingo event.

From what you show me, I agree. I have to say, that is an amazing find, one of many. I'd like to see a Klaasend top ten catches. You have done so much here over the years. Klaasend, you are truly an amazing cyber detective.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 18, 2010, 02:44:08 AM
Anita saying she hasn't spoken to Joran since February... she might be telling the truth. She didn't say she hasn't seen him since February. And we all know that ain't true!
It's all in the details LOL!!

And about those balls.
I think they're chinese baoding balls.

To use them for exercise, place two Baoding balls within your palm then rotate them clockwise and counterclockwise. Gravity will help you keep on controlling the balls. There are many exercises possible.

(http://www.baodingballs.com/products/dolphin-blue.jpg)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 18, 2010, 02:47:17 AM
Sorry, forgot the baoding link.

http://www.baodingballs.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 18, 2010, 03:01:26 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0
Yes there was you posted it. He was standing holding a shovel. Heavy set, dark hair, darker skin. I would not have mentioned it if you hadn't posted it. I'll go back and check the thread somewhere back around page 95 or so last discussion.
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 18, 2010, 03:04:11 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0
Yes there was you posted it. He was standing holding a shovel. Heavy set, dark hair, darker skin. I would not have mentioned it if you hadn't posted it. I'll go back and check the thread somewhere back around page 95 or so last discussion.
Selena

Oh, here it is....this thing on the ground looked like a huge square shovel.
http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0
Dayum.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:19:53 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about!  


I don't read Portuguese very well, but I can read some Haitian Creole Portuguese so I can pick up a few words here and there. If I read this correctly there was a car which slammed another car (couldn't tell if it was an accident or deliberate) the police were there and there were 5 men in one car who started shooting. There was some kind of gun fight. It appears it was some type of gang fight. They sent up a helicopter to find a car that got away. The victim was taken to Hopi hospital in Montserrat.

It looks like:  Information they got from the mother of one of the victims was that he was injured in his leg with an (air gun?)

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 18, 2010, 03:21:58 AM
Anita saying she hasn't spoken to Joran since February... she might be telling the truth. She didn't say she hasn't seen him since February. And we all know that ain't true!
It's all in the details LOL!!

And about those balls.
I think they're chinese baoding balls.

To use them for exercise, place two Baoding balls within your palm then rotate them clockwise and counterclockwise. Gravity will help you keep on controlling the balls. There are many exercises possible.

(http://www.baodingballs.com/products/dolphin-blue.jpg)


Well, that just let all of the air out of my tires.

(quote)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:21:59 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I thought Stephany's father ran once for president and once for vice-president.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:22:54 AM
clarifying:

finials............. I know what finials are.......

Congrats Laker Fans!!!

We know what you know and it wasn't about finials.  I think I saw them on your night stand, right next to the bedpost with the fuzzy handcuffs.





I'm sure you're mistaken! You must have seen my halo on it's special resting place for when I sleep.

I just saw Joran in his orange shirt on NG rerun. As a UT fan, I object that they put him in orange!!!!!


Wow!  A halo with a set of keys.  Is that so it doesn't fall off?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:25:39 AM
Out of the hosp and feeling good-ish. I'll catch up after the game!

Got one of those cool Boston Scientific implants.

Stay on the case, monkeys!

Hat

A stent Hat?  They have gotten so good at that technology!  Get plenty of rest.  GO LAKERS! 

P.S.  Just because you now have a Boston implant is no reason to root for them in tonight :)
Ha! Good one Klaas. Got a stent in Jan after sudden cardiac you know what. God took a long look (5 day coma) and said this one's not ready yet. Thanks for all the good wishes everybody.

Went yesterday for Boston Sci Defib implant. Now have one really buff pec.

Sometimes I think God chooses the best among us to join him as a lesson to those left behind.

Other times I think the evil that men do steals the innocent away and it is down to us to call for justice.

That fellowship is why I come to this board. I don't think I am wrong. So many are good and wise.



Oh, Poppop Hat, feel better, you are one of the reasons we come here!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:27:57 AM
Anita saying she hasn't spoken to Joran since February... she might be telling the truth. She didn't say she hasn't seen him since February. And we all know that ain't true!
It's all in the details LOL!!

And about those balls.
I think they're chinese baoding balls.

To use them for exercise, place two Baoding balls within your palm then rotate them clockwise and counterclockwise. Gravity will help you keep on controlling the balls. There are many exercises possible.

(http://www.baodingballs.com/products/dolphin-blue.jpg)



CBB meant Ben Wa Balls, she only uses them for her Kegel exercises, and she only reads Playgirl for the good articles, that is why she has to lock her halo on.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 18, 2010, 03:31:14 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about!  


I don't read Portuguese very well, but I can read some Haitian Creole Portuguese so I can pick up a few words here and there. If I read this correctly there was a car which slammed another car (couldn't tell if it was an accident or deliberate) the police were there and there were 5 men in one car who started shooting. There was some kind of gun fight. It appears it was some type of gang fight. They sent up a helicopter to find a car that got away. The victim was taken to Hopi hospital in Montserrat.

It looks like:  Information they got from the mother of one of the victims was that he was injured in his leg with an (air gun?)

 

Maybe we should drag out the pics of the Renfro kids again. Could she be the mother?

(quote)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 18, 2010, 03:32:12 AM
my quotes are all screwed up as usual...Klaas, do you think Renfro is the informant not the *******?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 18, 2010, 03:33:05 AM
hahhaah....the mami, I can't type out the other word, it seems to be flagged but it isn't at all obscene.
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Curly on June 18, 2010, 03:34:32 AM
Link to JVDS cell for those who missed it.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2010/06/17/natpkg.casarez.prison.tour.cnn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:38:52 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about!  


I don't read Portuguese very well, but I can read some Haitian Creole Portuguese so I can pick up a few words here and there. If I read this correctly there was a car which slammed another car (couldn't tell if it was an accident or deliberate) the police were there and there were 5 men in one car who started shooting. There was some kind of gun fight. It appears it was some type of gang fight. They sent up a helicopter to find a car that got away. The victim was taken to Hopi hospital in Montserrat.

It looks like:  Information they got from the mother of one of the victims was that he was injured in his leg with an (air gun?)

 

Maybe we should drag out the pics of the Renfro kids again. Could she be the mother?

(quote)

She is either the mother or the reporter.  I do not think she is the mother of the injured child, if she is, why isn't she with him?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:46:03 AM
my quotes are all screwed up as usual...Klaas, do you think Renfro is the informant not the *******?

Not Klaas, but I do have some magic powers.  I straightened out your quotes.  Make sure you go all the way to the bottom and past the last word which is quote.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 03:46:52 AM
hahhaah....the mami, I can't type out the other word, it seems to be flagged but it isn't at all obscene.
Selena

Mother?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 04:59:13 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

If I recall correctly when she did the interview with Rita Cosby in 2005, it was at the insistence of the lovely talented, Julia Renfro, friend and confidant of the ever-so-charming Anita (mother to our favorite murderer and handmaiden benefactor of the brilliant but deceased loser Paulus).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 18, 2010, 05:08:37 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

If I recall correctly when she did the interview with Rita Cosby in 2005, it was at the insistence of the lovely talented, Julia Renfro, friend and confidant of the ever-so-charming Anita (mother to our favorite murderer and handmaiden benefactor of the brilliant but deceased loser Paulus).

Tyler - have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts.  They convey my type of humour along with common sense and much truth. Thank you for all these years of sharing your thoughts with us.

OT - I do hope this is a good year for the roses. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 18, 2010, 05:14:57 AM
It wouldn`t surprise me if Melody was X.


X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, if you do not have money in June or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life.  Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Sure seems that way.  This speaks volumes if it is her.  Definitely tells me a lot about what he truly thinks of women.  He's definitely a woman hater, among many, many other things....


Again, no, Mellany would say her phone bill in florins and not euros.  Ludwick likely in florins or dollars.  I think it is ssomebody in NL or even Thailand.


Melony is exaggerating her contacts with Joran to enhance her ability to sell interviews, etc.



Kirk Atkinson aka WhiteOut the co-owner of the coffee shop in Thailand, now the owner?  Very possible.


Hello Monkeys.  Great to see all the old familiar names posting.  It is a struggle to keep up with events but I am pleased to see the lying, murdering monster is where he belongs - in a hell hole with all the other dregs of mankind.

Klaas not sure of where this Kirk Atkinson comes from but it is a very British name and the Brits rarely talk easily in Euros as they still favour their Pounds.

Also anyone in Thailand would not talk in Euros as in those parts of Asia the common foreign currency is American Dollars.  Everything in their currency is instantly converted to US$ for tourists.  The tourists then have to do their own calculation to their currency to see what the items are actually worth to them, and if they are a bargain or not.

Hope this helps,

The blog publishes an instant-message exchange it says is between Van der Sloot and a 20-year-old girlfriend five days before Flores was killed. In it, he asks her to wire him 300 euros in Peru. He claims his wallet has been stolen.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&pid=0&sid=1979526&page=3

Northern - thank you for this clarification.  Seems we have nailed it right.

Also thank you for all the news items you bring to this case and other cases here at SM.  Good work and much appreciated.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tibrogargan on June 18, 2010, 05:17:29 AM
Finally caught up.  Wonder how many pages I will be behind again by tomorrow morning?

Antihistamines are kicking in - goodnight Monkeys.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 05:19:08 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I thought Stephany's father ran once for president and once for vice-president.



Somewhere I heard that her father ran for those two highest offices as well and mentioned it to a doctor friend from SA, and I understood him to say that her "her" mother ran for those offices.  Maybe I misunderstood him.  Perhaps it was his mother?  I am not sure.  Sometimes we do have a small communication barrier as he speaks in a very mild and soft voice and often I cannot hear (not that he does not speak good English) .  I will ask DH what he heard in that conversation as he communicates with him more frequently than I.    LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 05:23:43 AM
Finally caught up.  Wonder how many pages I will be behind again by tomorrow morning?

Antihistamines are kicking in - goodnight Monkeys.

Take care, and it has been a pleasure having you here to bring levity and insight.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 06:01:10 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

If I recall correctly when she did the interview with Rita Cosby in 2005, it was at the insistence of the lovely talented, Julia Renfro, friend and confidant of the ever-so-charming Anita (mother to our favorite murderer and handmaiden benefactor of the brilliant but deceased loser Paulus).

IIRC, she said Joran liked rough (more than this) sex sometimes.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 06:31:50 AM
Bearly, if you were posting at RWV, you might recall when she was asked if Joran liked rough sex, and she said, "once in a blue moon..." 

Then she trailed off...and a few posts later was asked if there was often more than one full moon in Aruba and she seemed to understand and said, "maybe," which leads me to believe that he likes rough sex more often than she wanted to admit. 

I believe anyone who on a forum, viewed worldwide, that talks about her sexual adventures with the murderer of young women is a fruitcake, to say the least and a (vulnerable) (opportunistic) nitwit.  Take your pick.  Her shortage of morals is augmented by her lack of gray matter, it would seem.

Yes, ABC saw her coming and they know that their viewership is among the lowest common denominator morally and ethically, so it plays big into their ratings.  Just sayin' a Cuomo is still a Cuomo, no matter where he works, and that sympathetic ear he had for Joran is pure politics for ratings.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 06:46:30 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

If I recall correctly when she did the interview with Rita Cosby in 2005, it was at the insistence of the lovely talented, Julia Renfro, friend and confidant of the ever-so-charming Anita (mother to our favorite murderer and handmaiden benefactor of the brilliant but deceased loser Paulus).

The thing that disturbs me is that she has a little one who looks up to her.  What is she teaching this child?  That it is okay to go out with, then become friends with, someone who lies, cheats on you, and treats you badly?  That you break up, but then remain friends with someone who lies to you?  I think she is naive and could not imagine someone treating her badly.  There are bad guys in this world, if she does not think her ex is one of them, then what kind of people will she let near her child?

In the back of my head I have wondered, because of the events Melody relayed that night, if he did not take it out on Natalee, that not only did Nat say no (or maybe wasn't given a choice) but he was reminded that Melody herself said no.  She may feel a bit of guilt for this and that is why she defends him.  I am in no way suggesting she should feel guilt, the best thing she could have done was to break up with him, but she should have gotten away from him, imo.  He killed his dog, which would not have been the first thing he did, and his life went downhill from there, not from meeting NH. 

I think the reason some women defend him is that they feel guilty for not being able to prevent things from happening or controlling him.  I am not just talking about NH and SF, but his lying, cheating, stealing, gambling addiction, alcohol and drug abuse, animal abuse, abuse of his brothers/ classmate, putting his family/friends in the poorhouse, befriending people only when they can do something for him, etc.  He seems like a real catch, doesn't he? 

Women often feel responsible for their men and their children and the way they act in public.  They need to cut the bindings and look at things from an objective point of view.  If he is your child, you will always love him, but you do not have to defend the horrible things he does.  Anita is trying to point fingers anywhere but home, he did not suddenly wake up like this.  She knew he had problems, that is why she took him to a doctor, unfortunately, like everything and everyone in his life, she could not make him go long enough, and she could not make him change.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 06:48:30 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

If I recall correctly when she did the interview with Rita Cosby in 2005, it was at the insistence of the lovely talented, Julia Renfro, friend and confidant of the ever-so-charming Anita (mother to our favorite murderer and handmaiden benefactor of the brilliant but deceased loser Paulus).

Tyler - have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts.  They convey my type of humour along with common sense and much truth. Thank you for all these years of sharing your thoughts with us.

OT - I do hope this is a good year for the roses. 

Tyler, I have been dying to ask about the roses.  I heard you talking about salt in the soil and didn't dare ask.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jonathan45 on June 18, 2010, 06:50:35 AM
In the extortion case Joran talked about  a 'construction site' where Natalees remains could be found. I can't remember if he used that phrase before.
For me this phrase is very interesting because close to the VDSresidence there was in 2005 a large sandy construction site, in those days a perfect spot to bury Natalee.
The construction site is is now the new soccer stadium. Joran loves soccer.
That site has never been search by cadaverdogs, neither the garbage dump at 700 meters from Jorans apartment.
For me, as you know, is Jorans apartment the real crimescene.
And Dead Daddy P was not involved in this unsolved case.

The remains of Natalee still can be found. Even without Joran.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 06:54:11 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I found video and I am unsure if this is the same person IBE

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/477907/lourdes-flores-promete-dar-prioridad-seguridad-ciudadana


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wingnut on June 18, 2010, 07:09:19 AM
I'd bet Joran was contacting people through Facebook. 


Only on page one of this thread, but wanted to say that Joran's Facebook page is back now?!?  Where are the emoticons when you really need them?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 07:10:34 AM
Bearly, if you were posting at RWV, you might recall when she was asked if Joran liked rough sex, and she said, "once in a blue moon..." 

Then she trailed off...and a few posts later was asked if there was often more than one full moon in Aruba and she seemed to understand and said, "maybe," which leads me to believe that he likes rough sex more often than she wanted to admit. 

I believe anyone who on a forum, viewed worldwide, that talks about her sexual adventures with the murderer of young women is a fruitcake, to say the least and a (vulnerable) (opportunistic) nitwit.  Take your pick.  Her shortage of morals is augmented by her lack of gray matter, it would seem.

Yes, ABC saw her coming and they know that their viewership is among the lowest common denominator morally and ethically, so it plays big into their ratings.  Just sayin' a Cuomo is still a Cuomo, no matter where he works, and that sympathetic ear he had for Joran is pure politics for ratings.

I did not post over there (that I remember) but I have read things she has said over there.  You are most probably correct.  I remember I did hear it from her, sotaspeak.  It wasn't something repeated, but something right from her.

I also agree with telling the world about her sex life.  I wonder if violence was where he got his pleasure.  Now telling everyone who did not hear about her sex life before  about lap dances, makes my eyes spin out of my head.  Wait until her child hits on this on Youtube and wait until friends at school tease her little one.  What will happen when she gets older, will boys expect that of her, too?  I don't care what you do when you are on your own.  Once you become a Mom, you need to act in a way that your child will respect, and that will not cause your child embarrassment, to be the brunt of teasing, or be put in any danger.

I think she may live in the past a little, she is not a teenager any more, she is not with Joran any more, she needs to get over it, take her child and start a new life, free from the past.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 07:12:58 AM
In the extortion case Joran talked about  a 'construction site' where Natalees remains could be found. I can't remember if he used that phrase before.
For me this phrase is very interesting because close to the VDSresidence there was in 2005 a large sandy construction site, in those days a perfect spot to bury Natalee.
The construction site is is now the new soccer stadium. Joran loves soccer.
That site has never been search by cadaverdogs, neither the garbage dump at 700 meters from Jorans apartment.
For me, as you know, is Jorans apartment the real crimescene.
And Dead Daddy P was not involved in this unsolved case.

The remains of Natalee still can be found. Even without Joran.



Hi and welcome to the cage.

Thanks for your thoughts and information.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 07:14:50 AM
Good Morning Monkeys,

I just wanted to say "Hi" before I get on with the day.

None - I don't think the woman in the video looks a bit like the pictures of Stephany's mother at the funeral. We are just seeing some very common Spanish names.

Tyler (and others) - I also was at RWV. I never could understand how anyone could defend Joran - from what we heard early on, the whole island knew he was a hothead. Melody could claim "youthful stupidity" at the time, but not now. When someone waves a lot of money, some come running. I wonder how much ABC paid her?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 07:19:52 AM
I also meant to mention, all O/T -

Welcome Jonathan45!

None - Still in the cookie business?

Hat - Good luck and good health with your new jump start!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 07:23:21 AM
Jonathan45 - you say:

"For me, as you know, is Jorans apartment the real crimescene.
And Dead Daddy P was not involved in this unsolved case."

Many agree about the apartment being the crime scene. But most think Paulus was involved. What makes you think not?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 18, 2010, 07:34:01 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I found video and I am unsure if this is the same person IBE

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/477907/lourdes-flores-promete-dar-prioridad-seguridad-ciudadana

I addressed this yesterday. IMO NOT her mother

This Lourdes Flores' doesn't look like Stephany's mom ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Flores

This is her full name:
Lourdes Celmira Rosario Flores Nano


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 07:52:50 AM
I just saw a little blurb of the Melody interview and she said that Joran
contacted her just a few hours before he killed Stephany and she thought
OMG...here we go again.

Another person for the FBI to subpoena.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 07:56:42 AM
I just saw a little blurb of the Melody interview and she said that Joran
contacted her just a few hours before he killed Stephany and she thought
OMG...here we go again.

Remember he had contacted a former girlfriend wanting money and the girlfriend had sort of denied his request, saying she needed money herself, and he said something like never loving him, because if she did, she would send money.  I don't even think he wished her a happy illegitimate baby day.

I think all children are a gift.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wingnut on June 18, 2010, 07:58:13 AM
Link to JVDS cell for those who missed it.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2010/06/17/natpkg.casarez.prison.tour.cnn


Thanks Curly!  Well, at least I get the Jinkasaurus thingy now!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 18, 2010, 08:00:08 AM
There was another photo of Joran at the bingo games, if that's him, doing something like picking up cards afterwards.  Did he have an actual real job of some sort?  If you can call that a job.

But I am thinking that's why he has a badge.  Otherwise, if he is just wearing one about and one that large, he truly is certifiable.

That would be totally strange.  Even for Joran.

.




I think that "badge" is just some emblem on a soccer jersey


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 08:13:31 AM
I'm in the middle of reading the latest People magazine.

There is a large story about Joran - when I opened to the first page of the story, I was in tears as they have pics of Natalee and Stephany side by side.

The article is extremely interesting.

Lots of info about Joran (and pics) regarding his life over the last few years.

One interesting quote from Anita, "I haven't spoken with Joran in a long time.  Not since his father's death".

hmm.

anyway, thought you all might be interested.  Some inconsistencies, but interesting to read for instance, that he was evicted from his house in Thailand due to partying and tearing up the place.  Lots of quotes from people he knows, including one from a woman who said that she saw him at a casino, about to leave with a woman.  She went up to the woman and said, "do you know who he is?".  Joran called her a bitch and walked off.

All Klaas has to do is post the April 25, 2010 Bingo pic... we`ll blow that lying slug right out of the water. Next whopper, Anita?

I found it!


     (http://l.yimg.com/img.movies.yahoo.com/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/walt_disney/monsters__inc_/roz.jpg)

               BINGO!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 18, 2010, 08:19:31 AM

That fellowship is why I come to this board. I don't think I am wrong. So many are good and wise.


and you are one. best wishes for a quick recovery, Hat. i've always enjoyed your posts and miss your sidekick from the old days.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 18, 2010, 08:25:36 AM
Bearly, if you were posting at RWV, you might recall when she was asked if Joran liked rough sex, and she said, "once in a blue moon..." 

Then she trailed off...and a few posts later was asked if there was often more than one full moon in Aruba and she seemed to understand and said, "maybe," which leads me to believe that he likes rough sex more often than she wanted to admit. 

I believe anyone who on a forum, viewed worldwide, that talks about her sexual adventures with the murderer of young women is a fruitcake, to say the least and a (vulnerable) (opportunistic) nitwit.  Take your pick.  Her shortage of morals is augmented by her lack of gray matter, it would seem.

Yes, ABC saw her coming and they know that their viewership is among the lowest common denominator morally and ethically, so it plays big into their ratings.  Just sayin' a Cuomo is still a Cuomo, no matter where he works, and that sympathetic ear he had for Joran is pure politics for ratings.

I remember Anita once (can't remember where) telling how fond she was of Melody - how she spent so much time in Jorans place and with the family.  Sounded like very liberal parenting to me.  My kids were never allowed to bring their boyfriends and girlfriends into their bedrooms. 
I can't help but wonder if this isn't all about spinning Joran as someone
who was once normal, kind, etc. and somewhere along the line became
sick in the head = not responsible for his actions, thus requiring a mental institution.  Melody maintained a relationship with Anita.  Melody attended his celebration party when he got out of jail.  Anita has a hand in Melody's
latest actions with ABC, IMO.

Good morning Monkey's.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 08:31:29 AM


          (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/roz.jpg)                    (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/ISABingo_04252010_4-1.jpg)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 18, 2010, 09:13:05 AM
MELODY

When Beth and Melody's words are considered in context ... the implication is that Paulus did not pick up Joran at 11:00 PM at the Excelsior casino on the evening of May 29, 2005.  In other words ... Joran did not go home prior to going to Carlos & Charlies.

Janet

+++++++

Nancy Grace - August 3, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, not only how the night unfolded at Carlos and Charlie`s, but even prior to that. This 11:00 PM pick-up on May the 29th I was able to speak with a witness also that said that Joran Van Der Sloot they were offering to give him a ride home at 11:00 PM on the 29th, but he didn`t need one because he had already called Deepak and Satish Kalpoe to pick him up. So that is something that -- you know, we know that Paul Van Der Sloot did not pick him up at 11:00 PM on the 29th. We know now that that correct pick-up time was 4:00 AM on the 30th, and Paul Van Der Sloot stated that he picked them up.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/03/ng.01.html


Melody - Joran's Former Girlfriend
Riehlworld View Posts
August, 2005


i saw him that saturday that's why, that was the 29th, but it's the 30th right? ... i was just sitting around and remembered that :$ and i asked which casino because where i saw him is very close to a casino, but the Seaport casino.

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 02:17 AM


but Dan i SWEAR i saw him , he was standing alone leaning against a pilar.

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 02:26 AM


wait no... thank goodness for being as big of a girly girl as i am ... i wrote down the party and the movies because the movies was the first time me and my curent boyfriend kissed :$ ... so i know for sure now.. i saw him the 29th! and before 12am. ... sorry guys,don't get mad at me for being wrong ta first...

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 02:33 AM


http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_32.html
_______________________________________________________________
the only thing i could ever imagine being possible, for him being involved, is
definitly him panicking by some accident.

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 03:41 AM


(was talking about her saying someone stayed over at JVDS on night NH went missing)
i noticed that already Dan, you posted it the other day ...

i don't mind at all ... but as long as it's clear that that's all i know, that he slept
over and that he was called to come so that joran can tell him the girl is missing, and
that joran told him they didn't sleep together... and trust me joran won't lie to him.

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 04:06 AM


whoo ... i'm really tired now...

but lastly - the friend slept over at his house but wasn't out with him, therefor he has
no alibi as to his where abouts before he got home.

and i don't know, his friend told me he called him the next day all shocked, that he had
something ot tell him, and he told him that the girl went missing. ... that must be before
natalee's parents came to him.. and being scared and preparing a story stand logically
with pretending to not know she was missing when approached by the parents, makes your
story more believable right?

Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 04:26 AM




Snuff film. They killed her during sex. Max Arends, Lorenzo, Kalpoe 1 and Joran were
involved, but Joran left. He could not handle it. Holiday Inn

Lorenzo is Jaime. Max is in Florida according to Scubajap with his dad. Dilmo send him to
Florida because it was heating up? Watch Scubajap. May get you in a trap.

Posted by: angelaberdine | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 05:11 AM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jen3560 on June 18, 2010, 09:13:13 AM
Yup!  And that would make perfect sense, as he's a barcelona fan.  He and Jaime C were discussing it on FB before he left Aruba for Peru.

Barcelona

(http://discountsoccershop.com/images/barcelona.jpg)(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/bingo.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jen3560 on June 18, 2010, 09:25:22 AM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

I'm not so sure about Aline, TxMom.  There was a definite change in the tone (on FB anyway) with Aline when Melody posted her weird stuff, and Joran posted about having a blood test done.

I'm actually looking to Aline to 'tell all' soon.  At least, that is my hope.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 18, 2010, 09:26:24 AM
Link to JVDS cell for those who missed it.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2010/06/17/natpkg.casarez.prison.tour.cnn


Thanks Curly!  Well, at least I get the Jinkasaurus thingy now!!!
So he has a new shirt and looks bigger..
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Jail%20pictures/Joranjail.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jen3560 on June 18, 2010, 09:27:51 AM
So we still don't know why the PoPo were talking to Julia?  Maybe somebody should tell her that black is NOT her color!

Black is not anybody's color in a tropical climate during the day. Black is for cold weather and cities and night-time. Black calls for real shoes or boots, not dusty sandals. Doesn't she know anything?

Yeah, but it comes off with one jerk. I'm sure that saves her valuable time several times a day.

LMAO CBB!!!!

What was it she was known as?  Fluffah?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 09:33:11 AM
Jen - did you ever speak to anyone in Palm Beach County, Florida, about Jose Pesquera?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jen3560 on June 18, 2010, 09:41:13 AM
I'd bet Joran was contacting people through Facebook. 


Only on page one of this thread, but wanted to say that Joran's Facebook page is back now?!?  Where are the emoticons when you really need them?

And there are 5 fewer pictures than there were before he went on the run.

Wondering if it's Melody that has access to it?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 09:42:55 AM
Jen - did you ever speak to anyone in Palm Beach County, Florida, about Jose Pesquera?

Sorry, that should be Jorge Pesquera.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 18, 2010, 09:44:27 AM
Link to JVDS cell for those who missed it.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2010/06/17/natpkg.casarez.prison.tour.cnn


Thanks Curly!  Well, at least I get the Jinkasaurus thingy now!!!
So he has a new shirt and looks bigger..
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/Jail%20pictures/Joranjail.jpg)

Is that a hat he's wearing? They gave him a damn hat? I hope they took everything away from him once the news crew left! If he gets good treatment b/c the news is there with cameras, I say please, no more cameras! I want him to suffer for eternity. You know he gets off on all this attention, he's enjoying this. Getting clean clothes and having his sh!thole cleaned up for their review.  Throw him back into his hole, lock the door and throw away the keys.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 18, 2010, 09:50:13 AM
Melody's journal

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/slideshow/diary-joran-van-der-sloots-girlfriend-10935858

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_front_cover_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_joran_pic_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_pic_of_two-100616_ssh.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_green_page_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_red_page_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_sex_first_time_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_kissing_photo_100616_ssh.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_tix_stub_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_poem_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_love_you_handwritten_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_joran_journal_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_prob_married_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_i_love_you_page_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_bought_a_ring_100616_ssv.jpg)

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/2020/ht_billions_of_kisses-100616_ssv.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: terryd270 on June 18, 2010, 09:51:16 AM
Good Morning and it's Friday and I guess Joran is enjoying his two fried eggs, Country Ham, Fried Green Tomatoes, and Cheesy Stone Ground Grits. Wait thats me.  I don't believe anything will ever come from that island nor from Joran.. I'm ok knowing he will be in a prison that will be like living in hell on earth..  Any friends or past relationships with anyone is not going to bring Natalee home, so my thoughts are what was on the computer..  I don't even want to hear what Joran says, he lies and will never tell the truth..  Anyone that has relationships with him lie just as much, they enabled each other so nothing they say interest me..

Terry


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 18, 2010, 09:54:32 AM
BooMonkey...that's not a hat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jen3560 on June 18, 2010, 09:55:25 AM
Jen - did you ever speak to anyone in Palm Beach County, Florida, about Jose Pesquera?

Oh wow....................I believe that we did.  I believe we sent an email (can't remember to whom) quoting his admission to Beth that yes, there was a coverup that occurred.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 09:55:48 AM
Joran van der Sloot led a high-stakes life in South America
Posted on Thursday, 06.03.10


When reached at her home -- a one-story cinder block house painted mustard yellow -- Anita van der Sloot sounded composed and attempted to politely dismiss any inquiries about her son.

She has two other sons, Valentijn and Sebastian. She is now a widow. Her husband died suddenly last February while playing tennis.

``I don't know anything,'' Anita told The Herald. ``I haven't been in contact with Joran for a long time ...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/03/1662456_p2/joran-van-der-sloot-led-a-high.html


April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)



May 14, 2010 – Anita and Renfro post to Joran

On Joran's FB

Anita Hugen
I hope the future will bring you, wisdom, trust,honesty, love and good friends.
May 14 at 10:26am

Julia Renfro
Be Grateful... for those who love you, for those who support you, for everything -- good and the bad. Be Grateful, life will come full circle even when the clouds are so dark, there is always a rainbow to come.
Sunday at 5:05pm



Deadly Connections?
June 11, 2010


CHRIS HANSEN: --what does he say first?

JOHN KELLY: "How you doing?"  He's covered with sweat.  He apparently walked from his house to get there.  And, you know, I just told him to have a seat.  Gave him a Diet Coke.  We actually split a Three Musketeers. The one thing I did at the very beginning was show him the $10,000 cash.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37650865/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/5/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37650865/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/6/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 10:07:49 AM
Jen - did you ever speak to anyone in Palm Beach County, Florida, about Jose Pesquera?

Oh wow....................I believe that we did.  I believe we sent an email (can't remember to whom) quoting his admission to Beth that yes, there was a coverup that occurred.

Maybe to a newspaper?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 10:07:53 AM
Exclusive: Joran van der Sloot's Mom: 'He Is Not a Murderer'
Anita van der Sloot Speaks For The First Time Since Her Son's Arrest
June 18, 2010


Joran van der Sloot's mother still believes her son is innocent, insisting in an email obtained exclusively by ABC News that "he is not a murderer."

Anita van der Sloot hasn't spoken publicly since her son's arrest in Peru, until now.

In an exclusive email sent to ABC News, Anita van der Sloot wrote:

"I am not giving interviews to any American media station because I don't trust them. Stay safe and pray for Joran. He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."

Anita van der Sloot's email, apparently typed out quickly, was sent to close confidant and ex-girlfriend of Joran's, Melody Granadillo.

ABC News' Chris Cuomo sat down exclusively to talk to Granadillo about the man she knew in an interview that airs tonight on 20/20.

Granadillo, 23, met van der Sloot when she was 16 and their teenage love affair blossomed.

"It was real," Granadillo told Cuomo. "We liked looking into each other's eyes."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 18, 2010, 10:15:12 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 18, 2010, 10:15:26 AM
hahhaah....the mami, I can't type out the other word, it seems to be flagged but it isn't at all obscene.
Selena

Mother?



Thanks for the fix. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the bifocals. rightio...that word.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 10:20:10 AM
Joran Van der Sloot's Ex-Girlfriend Shares Diary They Kept Together
An intimate look inside their relationship and details about van der Sloot
.

Diary: Joran Van der Sloot's Ex Girlfriend:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/slideshow/diary-joran-van-der-sloots-girlfriend-10935858


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 18, 2010, 10:22:17 AM
Exclusive: Joran van der Sloot's Mom: 'He Is Not a Murderer'
Anita van der Sloot Speaks For The First Time Since Her Son's Arrest
June 18, 2010


Joran van der Sloot's mother still believes her son is innocent, insisting in an email obtained exclusively by ABC News that "he is not a murderer."

Anita van der Sloot hasn't spoken publicly since her son's arrest in Peru, until now.

In an exclusive email sent to ABC News, Anita van der Sloot wrote:

"I am not giving interviews to any American media station because I don't trust them. Stay safe and pray for Joran. He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."

Anita van der Sloot's email, apparently typed out quickly, was sent to close confidant and ex-girlfriend of Joran's, Melody Granadillo.

ABC News' Chris Cuomo sat down exclusively to talk to Granadillo about the man she knew in an interview that airs tonight on 20/20.

Granadillo, 23, met van der Sloot when she was 16 and their teenage love affair blossomed.

"It was real," Granadillo told Cuomo. "We liked looking into each other's eyes."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217

there's that word "trap" leaking out of her mouth........subconscious??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Miss Lacey on June 18, 2010, 10:25:15 AM


          (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/roz.jpg)                    (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/ISABingo_04252010_4-1.jpg)



The only difference is that Roz ends up being one of the good guys.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 10:26:51 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 10:30:31 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Denial. Her world is so full of denial that real life eludes her.

The extortion/fraud thing - yeah, a trap of his own making.

Look at the surveillance camera records, Anita. You think Joran was trapped into staging his exit/entrance? Maybe that spoon-bender hypnotized him into doing that ...

I for one am so grateful that Joran checked into Hotel Tac, where 24/7 surveillance is an amenity. That MADE the Peru case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 18, 2010, 10:47:28 AM
http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/06/18/natalee-holloways-brother-joran-van-der-sloot-will-never-give-new-evidence/

Natalee Holloway’s Brother: Joran Van Der Sloot Will Never Give New EvidencePosted by MaraLee on June 18th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Natalee Holloway’s brother is yet another victim in this sad case. In 10th grade when Natalee went missing, he is not holding on to hope of getting new evidence on Natalee’s location.

“He’s just trying to get a lighter sentence,” Matt tells People in his first interview. “Right now he just knows he’s pretty much screwed on murder.”

That’s consistent with other news we’ve heard-That Joran fears for his life in Peruvian jail. He is under isolation, but inmates are still able to get to him and do not look kindly on those who murder young women. He wants to use one murder as a bargaining chip against another.

Joran has spoken about Natalee’s whereabouts before, even recently attempting to extort money from Natalee’s mom Beth Twitty. The feds got involved and paid him off, but the information that Natalee was buried under a house ended up being false and Joran used the money to travle to Peru where he killed his second (known) victim Stephany Flores.

Matt thinks that Joran did give truthful information once.

In 2008 an undercover Dutch journalist spoke with Joran who told him that Natalee had suffered a seizure on the beach, and that he panicked and called a friend who dumped her body at sea.

“I feel like that was the truth,” Matt says. “It’s hard to talk about it, but I think he put her in the ocean. That would make the most sense to me. All that stuff where he says she’s buried in a swamp or under a house being built, that’s not true.”

“I wish [the authorities] were able to act sooner,” says Matt of the extortion case. “But I understand that they had to build the [extortion] case up so he couldn’t get away for the tenth time, so to say. It’s terrible Stephany had to meet Joran like that.”

Matt can still find a slight amount of solace that Joran is now behind bars. “The main thing is [that] I’m glad that he’s finally going to be seeing bars for the rest of his life. We’ve already come to terms that she is gone, that I’ll never see her again. I just hope nobody ever has to deal with that again, and go through that whole tragedy of missing a loved one.”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 10:52:25 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 11:01:44 AM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 11:02:10 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Denial. Her world is so full of denial that real life eludes her.

The extortion/fraud thing - yeah, a trap of his own making.

Look at the surveillance camera records, Anita. You think Joran was trapped into staging his exit/entrance? Maybe that spoon-bender hypnotized him into doing that ...

I for one am so grateful that Joran checked into Hotel Tac, where 24/7 surveillance is an amenity. That MADE the Peru case.


msmarple

Security cameras have been Joran's downfall.  The revealed images have exposed the truth ... the truth that he lies.

Janet

++++++

Loving Natalee – Beth Holloway

Page 51:
  As we stand there in the wee hours of Tuesday morning, May 31, 2005, waiting to get a search warrant that is never obtained, the two who were last seen with Natalee offer to us where they dropped her off early yesterday morning.  For the last time we drive back to the Holiday Inn, where Joran and Deepak demonstrate with great detail where they took Natalee, and how she stumbled and bumped her head getting out of the car, describing her over and over as “so drunk.”
 
Joran and Deepak then show me exactly where they dropped Natalee off in front of the hotel entrance, speading their arms in illustration of the area, which is right outside the front entrance of the Holiday Inn lobby.

Page 97:  The black and white footage plays. The video is grainy, but clearly shows the lobby entrance of the Holiday Inn.  I ask them to rewind I and play it again.

Natalee never appears at the hotel where Joran and Deepak so elaborately demonstrated they left her.  She never came back.  She never got out of that car and stumbled and bumped her head like they told me.


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 45:
  At Noord it takes almost half an hour to get uniformed officers to accompany us to the van der Sloot home.

The officers sound their horns and sirens for about five minutes before a man answers the door.  He is Joran’s father, Paulus van der Sloot.  He has his cell phone in his hand.  The police ask to see Joran.  Paulus responds that he isn’t home and calls his son to find out where he is.  He tells the police that Joran says he is in a poker tournament at the back of the casino at the Wyndham Hotel.

Page 48:  Joran and Deepak have supposedly returned from a night of gambling at the Wyndham.  It’s about three o’clock in the morning.  It’s a school night.  They aren’t dressed as if they have been to a casino.  They are in grubby T-shirts and shorts.  I make a mental note that I will ask to see the casino footage from the Wyndham later on.  Just to see if they were really there tonight or, rather, this morning.

Page 121:  And finally we learn from the Wyndham Hotel manager that Joran and Deepak do not appear on their security videos at the time the two claimed to be at the poker tournament there – the same time we were stand in the van der Sloots’ front yard in the wee hours of May, 30.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 11:06:43 AM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Thanks Klaas.

I have not been commenting on the FP for the last week.  It seems that most of my posts goes "poof".  I realize that you are behind the scenes doing lots of stuff to keep the site running  ... I did not want to keep bothering you to retrieve my comments from the "spam" file.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 11:08:17 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I found video and I am unsure if this is the same person IBE

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/477907/lourdes-flores-promete-dar-prioridad-seguridad-ciudadana

I addressed this yesterday. IMO NOT her mother

This Lourdes Flores' doesn't look like Stephany's mom ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Flores

This is her full name:
Lourdes Celmira Rosario Flores Nano

That is why I posted the video Nut, it was apparent there was a mix-up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 11:10:11 AM
Exclusive: Joran van der Sloot's Mom: 'He Is Not a Murderer'
Anita van der Sloot Speaks For The First Time Since Her Son's Arrest
June 18, 2010


Joran van der Sloot's mother still believes her son is innocent, insisting in an email obtained exclusively by ABC News that "he is not a murderer."

Anita van der Sloot hasn't spoken publicly since her son's arrest in Peru, until now.

In an exclusive email sent to ABC News, Anita van der Sloot wrote:

"I am not giving interviews to any American media station because I don't trust them. Stay safe and pray for Joran. He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."

Anita van der Sloot's email, apparently typed out quickly, was sent to close confidant and ex-girlfriend of Joran's, Melody Granadillo.

ABC News' Chris Cuomo sat down exclusively to talk to Granadillo about the man she knew in an interview that airs tonight on 20/20.

Granadillo, 23, met van der Sloot when she was 16 and their teenage love affair blossomed.

"It was real," Granadillo told Cuomo. "We liked looking into each other's eyes."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217

there's that word "trap" leaking out of her mouth........subconscious??

In Anita's mind it's always someone else's fault and we wonder how he turned out like he has?

She needs some serious professional help.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 11:10:39 AM
For what it is worth, I just saw this over at RU; (worth zero, IMO)

Bubbles:

I don't think so.

I just spoke with Anita. She received call from someone of Queen Beatrix staff. I couldn't quite understand the name or who person was. She was invited to have a weekend with Queen b/c apparently Queen Beatrix has followed case and is concerned about Anita as a mother and as one of her subjects. I asked her if she will go, but she said it will depend on some factors but would like to. I offered to go in her place if she needs a stand-in .

So it seems there are more peeps not willing to take media garbage as fact.

It is also good to see Anita have peeps in high places offer assistance after all the poor woman has been through.
There's much more at

EDIT:  Bubble is delusional, have you read the rest of Bubble's posts?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 11:10:55 AM
Janet - lot's of people have been having problems lately with that.  I try and keep up and pull good posts out of spam but if the spam folder gets too many 200+ it takes too long to go through them all.  I do apologize and will do my best to catch them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 11:11:13 AM
Turbo - I don't think there's a man with a shovel.  There are drugs, a weapon some "kids" and Julia Renfro

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0

Great catch on spotting that story too Klaas!  Can't wait to find out what that was all about!  

I don't read Portuguese very well, but I can read some Haitian Creole Portuguese so I can pick up a few words here and there. If I read this correctly there was a car which slammed another car (couldn't tell if it was an accident or deliberate) the police were there and there were 5 men in one car who started shooting. There was some kind of gun fight. It appears it was some type of gang fight. They sent up a helicopter to find a car that got away. The victim was taken to Hopi hospital in Montserrat.

My impression of those photos was that perhaps Renfro's car was one of the ones involved.  Also, she surely looks taken off guard & not expecting to be photographed-I mean, she looks awful and not ready for prime time. lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 11:12:43 AM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/06/exclusive-documents-official-police-file-joran-van-der-sloot-new-details-murder

Even before Joran van der Sloot's confession, Peruvian police were convinced he was guilty of the brutal murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez, the official police case file reveals.

In a world exclusive, RadarOnline.com has obtained the official documents from the homicide detectives' investigation into the murder of Flores Ramirez, revealing strong evidence against van der Sloot.

In one document, detectives said Flores Ramirez - who was beaten and stabbed to death - was found with "traumatic lesions on the face, a bruise on the scalp, cranial fracture, traumatic lesions on the neck... (and) over different areas of the body."

It also reveals that van der Sloot - after slamming Flores Ramirez in the face with his right elbow, strangling her for a full minute, taking off his shirt and suffocating her with it - drank cups of coffee next to her lifeless body.

Under the heading 'Ways and circumstances how the murder was committed,' police cite the following determinations of the 22-year-old Dutchman's guilt, as translated into English:

    * Physical aggression
    * Preparation for escape
    * Escape itinerary

They also revealed the host of evidence stacked against Joran van der Sloot:

    * His confession
    * The dead victim
    * The death certificate
    * The parking ticket of the victim's vehicle at the Casino "Atlantic City"
    * Results of the criminality information -- biologic, fingerprinting and others
    * Testimony of the witnesses, including drivers
    * Recovery of Van Der Sloot's clothes in the victim's vehicle
    * Removal of money, bank account cards and the vehicle of the victim

The sensitive documents also include an illustration of the crime scene -- Room 309 at the Miraflores Hotel Tac in Lima -- showing where Flores Ramirez was bludgeoned to death.

The cause of death was cranial-encephalic and cervical traumatism, according to a forensic investigator, quoted in the police document.

Joran van der Sloot is still a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case, and there is speculation he may want to make a deal that includes leading Aruban officials to the body of the missing Alabama teen, who vanished while on vacation in Aruba in 2005.

Van der Sloot has been arrested twice, but never been charged in the Holloway disappearance.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jesdamala on June 18, 2010, 11:16:08 AM
Just read that Lourdes Flores  who ran for President of Peru is the mother of Stephany.

OMG.. does the 6 degrees really hold water, if so it is a very small world.

I found video and I am unsure if this is the same person IBE

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/477907/lourdes-flores-promete-dar-prioridad-seguridad-ciudadana

I addressed this yesterday. IMO NOT her mother

This Lourdes Flores' doesn't look like Stephany's mom ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Flores

This is her full name:
Lourdes Celmira Rosario Flores Nano

That is why I posted the video Nut, it was apparent there was a mix-up.

Stephany's mother is Marielena Ramirez.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/02plg6CfLk6L3



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 11:17:06 AM
Janet - lot's of people have been having problems lately with that.  I try and keep up and pull good posts out of spam but if the spam folder gets too many 200+ it takes too long to go through them all.  I do apologize and will do my best to catch them.

Klaas

I am not complaining.  I know that you have been going crazy in the past couple of weeks attempting to keep this site up and running and ... I appreciate all that you do. 

Janet
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 11:19:24 AM
Can we count the ways Joran has taunted Natalee’s family about what finally happened that night?

I’m confused on a couple of these, but let’s start with --

Dropped off at Holiday Inn
Left on beach (many variations on this story)
In the ocean (Peter de Vries recording)
Sold (Greta interview, later retracted)
Off a balcony (Jaap? interview)
Left in swamp/pond (Jaap? map)
Buried at a pre-construction site (John Q Kelly)

--  and I’m sure some smart monkeys can make corrections and add to.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 11:20:18 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Either that, or she has a total resistance to reason with regard to actual matters of fact-a paranoiac delusion.   No wonder Joran found it so easy to lie,etc. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 18, 2010, 11:23:23 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

This explains so much.  When you have parents who are unwilling to face reality, can't see the signs of bad behavior, and do nothing to set standards (and yes, a bit of fear about consequences...)...you get someone like Joran who is leading himself on a path to self-destruction, aided and abetted by his reality-ignoring mother.  Unbelievable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 11:24:14 AM
I think I stumbled onto something at el comecerio. Joran was wearing an orange shirt when he was escorted from his cell to accommodate CNN.

Orange is The Netherlands color for the World Cup.

I will also mention that some of the commentors are not at all happy with Jinkasaurous's (sp?) cell visit.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jesdamala on June 18, 2010, 11:30:22 AM
I think I stumbled onto something at el comecerio. Joran was wearing an orange shirt when he was escorted from his cell to accommodate CNN.

Orange is The Netherlands color for the World Cup.

I will also mention that some of the commentors are not at all happy with Jinkasaurous's (sp?) cell visit.

The cell visit won't make some happy, that it was not bad enough!  Or, a set up, meaning cleaned up for the visit.  Peru has some legitimate concerns that their sub human incarceration of inmates is getting more focus than they may want.  Joran brings chaos wherever he goes, even if it behind bars!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 11:31:47 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

This explains so much.  When you have parents who are unwilling to face reality, can't see the signs of bad behavior, and do nothing to set standards (and yes, a bit of fear about consequences...)...you get someone like Joran who is leading himself on a path to self-destruction, aided and abetted by his reality-ignoring mother.  Unbelievable.

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 18, 2010, 11:33:59 AM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


I disagree with you Klaas.  I think your FP is fabulous!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 18, 2010, 11:34:02 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

This explains so much.  When you have parents who are unwilling to face reality, can't see the signs of bad behavior, and do nothing to set standards (and yes, a bit of fear about consequences...)...you get someone like Joran who is leading himself on a path to self-destruction, aided and abetted by his reality-ignoring mother.  Unbelievable.

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


I have to say that I used to feel sorry for Anita....and now she just aggravates me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 11:34:05 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Denial. Her world is so full of denial that real life eludes her.

The extortion/fraud thing - yeah, a trap of his own making.

Look at the surveillance camera records, Anita. You think Joran was trapped into staging his exit/entrance? Maybe that spoon-bender hypnotized him into doing that ...

I for one am so grateful that Joran checked into Hotel Tac, where 24/7 surveillance is an amenity. That MADE the Peru case.

Sure, Anita, it was a big trap to finally get your delicious sporter behind bars. Stephany willingly volunteered to be brutally murdered so that Beth Holloway will finally get some form of justice for Natalee. The whole world really hates Aruba, so they sent in secret forces to train Joran to be the monster he turned out to be. He was stupid enough to fall for it. Trouble was, he was a natural.  Paulus dying was all part of the big plot to finally nail Joran. You have been the perfect mother all along. Everything that has happened since June 2nd was well scripted. All the videos of Joran and Stephany were staged. You can see how bad an actor Joran was, though, by that video of him trying to set up an alibi in the hotel hallway by pretending to be locked out of his room. They really do love him in Peru, and will make sure he gets the star treatment while he is pretending to be locked up.

I hope your next tea party with the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, Jason, and Freddy will be enjoyable. Perhaps you should start a Mothers In Denial support group with Cindy Anthony. You seriously need help!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 18, 2010, 11:35:06 AM
And, when DNA evidence comes back and she's still denying Joran's involvement...well, she's just certifiable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 18, 2010, 11:36:39 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

This explains so much.  When you have parents who are unwilling to face reality, can't see the signs of bad behavior, and do nothing to set standards (and yes, a bit of fear about consequences...)...you get someone like Joran who is leading himself on a path to self-destruction, aided and abetted by his reality-ignoring mother.  Unbelievable.

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Well, if I ever become as "alert" as Anita, please somebody, put me out of my misery!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 11:37:31 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

This explains so much.  When you have parents who are unwilling to face reality, can't see the signs of bad behavior, and do nothing to set standards (and yes, a bit of fear about consequences...)...you get someone like Joran who is leading himself on a path to self-destruction, aided and abetted by his reality-ignoring mother.  Unbelievable.

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Well, if I ever become as "alert" as Anita, please somebody, put me out of my misery!!!

LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 11:39:36 AM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:40:42 AM
arubanews: Joran van der Sloot, "condemned by the media? - Radio Nederland

"Peru live in a democracy and there is full respect for fundamental rights. Joran van der Sloot have a fair trial."

The Peruvian justice system is under international pressure over the case of the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who ask Judge Carlos Morales on Monday June 21 in a prison.
 

Listen to the interview with the lawyer Edward Alvarez:

 
As formal start of the trial against the Dutchman, the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima scheduled interrogation Joran Van der Sloot, in the process remains as the alleged perpetrator of the crimes of murder and theft to the detriment of the young Stephany Flores.
 
Stagecoach, presided by Judge Carlos Morales, will be held Monday at the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Canto Grande, where the Dutchman meets detention since 11 June.
 
It will be a closed-door interrogation, in legal terms is known as the investigative stage, which can extend up to twelve months before the start of the trial against van der Sloot.
 
During the coming weeks, Judge Morales will be responsible for clarifying the facts and determine the responsibilities of Joran Van der Sloot, aged 22, in the murder of Stephany Flores, 21.
 
If convicted, Van der Sloot could face a prison sentence of not less than 15 years.
 
In an exclusive interview with Radio Netherlands International, Edward Alvarez Flores family's lawyer, insists on the guarantees and rights that exist in Peru so that Joran van der Sloot in front of a fair trial.
 
In the words of counsel, "Peru live in a democracy and as such, there is a full respect for fundamental rights, among them, the judiciary and penal system instances to ensure that the process followed to Joran van der Sloot is framed within the guarantee of due process. The principle of presumption of innocence can not be called into question until a final decision is final. "
 
The way in which Joran van der Sloot was shown to the national and international press a week ago sparked criticism from the Netherlands authorities, which suggest that Van der Sloot "had already been condemned by the media."
 
Alvarez acknowledges that "you have treated a little media to information about the case. It's common in Peru's courts, but we in no way questioned the principle of presumption of innocence of Joran van der Sloot. Nor can be presented in a situation that undermines human dignity ".
 
Testing
Judge Cordova Morales has ordered psychological examinations and psychiatric Joran van der Sloot, and the ratification of the autopsy and all the expert opinions made in the preliminary stage. The inquest continues and Alvarez explains what is still unknown about the evidence.

 
"In the course of the judicial inquiry," she adds, "there is much to complete. A key is reading the files found in the 'laptop' from Joran Van der Sloot, because we do not know what information it contains . Also lacking magazine record of phone calls received Stephany Flores. We received calls from Joran days before his death. There are people in the casino who had knowledge of the presence of Joran van der Sloot, if you earned money and if it is true who entered with such amount of money the place. "
 
The computer's hard drive van der Sloot would contain information about the murder in 2005 in Aruba of American Natalee Holloway (18).
 
Authorities in Aruba and the United States to Peru have requested that you immediately what kind of information is concerned.
 
Extradition
Alvarez's lawyer insists that Joran van der Sloot "definitely will not be extradited. Peru has an agreement with Holland, so this figure is not feasible. Confirmed the authorship of the assassination, Van der Sloot will have to serve his sentence in Peru. I I may not return to the Netherlands to a penalty when there is an agreement with Peru. "
 
RNW sources who requested anonymity say the mother of Joran van der Sloot is trying to achieve your child's extradition to the Netherlands.

http://www.rnw.nl/espanol/article/joran-van-der-sloot-%C2%BFcondenado-por-los-medios


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 11:42:14 AM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.

Chris won't care, none of them do.  They are all (Greta, NG, JVM, Chris Cuomo, etc) in it for ratings only. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:42:30 AM
VIDEO: First Look At Joran Van Der Sloot In Prison

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/06/video-first-look-joran-van-der-sloot-prison


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 18, 2010, 11:42:41 AM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.

Yes I bet she received a hefty sum!

o/t - how's that great Pruvian coffee this morning Ono?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:53:15 AM
On that video link I just posted the reporter says Joran will not give any interviews to the media unless he is paid for it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 11:56:44 AM
On that video link I just posted the reporter says Joran will not give any interviews to the media unless he is paid for it.

Who would want a pay interview with a stinky old murderer?

I mean, besides ABC and CBS?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:57:00 AM
Ex girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot: "He was amazing and romantic."
His name is Melody Granadillo and seven years ago had a seven-month romantic relationship with the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot.

"He was unbelievable," said Granadillo in an interview on "20/20" on ABC.

"It was romantic, we sat and talked for hours. We liked to look at the eyes, "he said. Both were 17 when they met at a birthday party in Aruba.

A RELATIONSHIP WAS DEEP
Granadillo narrated that saves some objects of that relationship as photos, emails and a daily special.

"We joked around a lot," she wrote on one of their first sexual encounters with Van der Sloot. "He wanted a sensual dance and gave it (...) was an amazing night, romantic and fun."

However, she also reported some details that are now known for his controversial personality. "He could lie for no apparent reason," he said.

http://www.moda.com.pe/entretinimiento/peru/ex-novia-de-joran-van-der-sloot-%C3%A9l-era-asombroso-y-rom%C3%A1ntico


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 11:57:33 AM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

This explains so much.  When you have parents who are unwilling to face reality, can't see the signs of bad behavior, and do nothing to set standards (and yes, a bit of fear about consequences...)...you get someone like Joran who is leading himself on a path to self-destruction, aided and abetted by his reality-ignoring mother.  Unbelievable.

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


I have to say that I used to feel sorry for Anita....and now she just aggravates me.

Annie

Anita van der Sloot would have every Monkey on this forum as well as the family of Natalee Holloway empathizing with her from the getgo ... IF she had not prevented justice from prevailing.  The protecting of her minor son in 2005 from the consequences of his wrongdoing resulted five years later in the death of Stephany Flores and ... Joran facing years of detainment in a Peruvian lockup. IMO

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 18, 2010, 12:20:11 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 12:23:42 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks Jo-An!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: no rose colored glasses on June 18, 2010, 12:24:26 PM
On that video link I just posted the reporter says Joran will not give any interviews to the media unless he is paid for it.

Who would want a pay interview with a stinky old murderer?

I mean, besides ABC and CBS?
This is just sickening.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 12:25:43 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!


Thanks Jo-An

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: no rose colored glasses on June 18, 2010, 12:26:01 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks Jo-An!
Yes, thank-you, have to wonder if Anita is being paid for the interview.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 12:27:01 PM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.

Yes I bet she received a hefty sum!

o/t - how's that great Pruvian coffee this morning Ono?

Fantastic!  I'm purchasing more today-Winn Dixie has it in their organics section.  :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 12:33:58 PM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.

Chris won't care, none of them do.  They are all (Greta, NG, JVM, Chris Cuomo, etc) in it for ratings only. 

FOX is cleaning the clocks of all the 'alphabet networks' and I'm disappointed that Greta has put herself down on their level. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 12:35:28 PM
THE BIBLE - 2005

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT:  You know, we were so pleased that he was transported because we thought it would be a little more mild on him and he could rest a little more. At least, he has a bed now. And I could bring a cushion and clean sheets for him and some clothes because he couldn't shave during the last 10 days, hardly shower — he could shower, but also not enough water to brush his teeth, et cetera, et cetera. He couldn't — the only thing he could read was the Bible he got from a very nice police guy. He got a Bible to read.

And he was telling me, Mommy, look at me, I'm reading the Bible. Did you ever think about that? And I think it's great. It's difficult to read. So yesterday, I thought at least, you know, he can have some books. He can write things because I think that's very important for a 17-year-old boy to write down certain experiences, just to read it over again later and see if it helps him to come through a difficult time. But he cannot have access to anything.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


THE BIBLE - 2010

NANCY GRACE
Evidence Photos Show Bloody Clothes in Flores Murder
Aired June 17, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET


Nancy Grace - June 17, 2010

JEAN CASAREZ: Getting really close to Castro Castro. This is a dirt road. It`s pretty bumpy. This is where people live. And you can see that the entrance right up there (INAUDIBLE). It`s right there at the prison. Let`s go.

This is the cell of Joran Van Der Sloot. They just took him out so we could come in here. This where he lives, day in and day out, at Castro Castro. This is a very specialized high-profile unit, protective custody. There`s only 10 cells in here, only two occupied.

This is Joran Van Der Sloot`s. this is his clothes. Remember you, saw him on television in these clothes? He still has them here. Here are his pants. And over here, here`s his bed. It`s a mattress. Here are all of his personal belongings. You can see a lot of books, mostly religious books. I see toothpaste. I see the Bible right there. I see books that are written in Dutch. And then over here, he has his own bathroom. As we`ve heard, it is a hole in the ground. He`s got running water. He`s got a sink. But this is where Joran Van Der Sloot -- this is where Joran Van Der Sloot stays. And when we leave, they`re going to bring him back right here as he awaits trial here at Castro Castro.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/17/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 12:38:03 PM
On that video link I just posted the reporter says Joran will not give any interviews to the media unless he is paid for it.

Who would want a pay interview with a stinky old murderer?

I mean, besides ABC and CBS?
This is just sickening.

I think that reporter is FOS.  No way, imo, that prison would allow Joran to do interviews for money while awaiting trial, or even after conviction.

If it were to be allowed, then we have been seriously misled as to the prison system in Peru.

JMO



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 12:42:25 PM
That is interesting: he claims to be agnostic.

The Bible must make a really nice mattress leveler for Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MsVada on June 18, 2010, 12:42:25 PM
Can we count the ways Joran has taunted Natalee’s family about what finally happened that night?

I’m confused on a couple of these, but let’s start with --

Dropped off at Holiday Inn
Left on beach (many variations on this story)
In the ocean (Peter de Vries recording)
Sold (Greta interview, later retracted)
Off a balcony (Jaap? interview)
Left in swamp/pond (Jaap? map)
Buried at a pre-construction site (John Q Kelly)

--  and I’m sure some smart monkeys can make corrections and add to.


Lets not forget in a plastic bag in a cement  square at the head of a pond.
(can't recall the word used for that cement square)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 18, 2010, 12:42:41 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

That's exactly what I thought too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 12:44:31 PM
That is interesting: he claims to be agnostic.

The Bible must make a really nice mattress leveler for Joran.

No kidding ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 12:48:43 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

That's exactly what I thought too.


As did I.  It will interesting to see how she handles this interview.  Valentijn still has to return to the US for college.  One would think Anita would not continue to make life more difficult for her other sons in her efforts to irrationally defend her eldest.

This has the potential to be completely infuriating, and not just here in America, but in Holland as well.  They are just as sick of this murdering S.o.B. as we are, I don't think they'll take too kindly to her blaming everyone but Joran.

That said, as a mother myself I do expect her to stand by her son as that is her duty.  Her duty to society, however, is to do so with honesty and humility, not with lies and mockery.

JMO



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 12:48:59 PM
Joran van der Sloot is no longer isolated in the Castro Castro prison (with video)

Television cameras from an international visited the cell in which the person accused of murder of Stephany Flores Dutchman spends his days now
Joran van der Sloot left the buffer zone in the Miguel Castro Castro, where he is being held on charges of murdering the young Stephany Flores, and now spends his days in solitary.

So I found images of the CNN TV channel reproduced by "América Noticias", where the citizens Netherlands captured addressing his flag on a pole wearing prison orange and cream trousers, guarded by members of INPE.

The television cameras were admitted to one day visit to see the Dutchman's cell, jailed since last Friday June 11 for murdering the young student daughter of businessman Ricardo Flores am on May 30.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/496749/joran-van-der-sloot-ya-no-esta-aislado-penal-castro-castro


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 12:50:13 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks in advance!!!  :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 12:51:34 PM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.

Yes I bet she received a hefty sum!

o/t - how's that great Pruvian coffee this morning Ono?

Fantastic!  I'm purchasing more today-Winn Dixie has it in their organics section.  :)

I found mine in the organics section as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 18, 2010, 12:53:27 PM
On that video link I just posted the reporter says Joran will not give any interviews to the media unless he is paid for it.

Who would want a pay interview with a stinky old murderer?

I mean, besides ABC and CBS?
This is just sickening.

I think that reporter is FOS.  No way, imo, that prison would allow Joran to do interviews for money while awaiting trial, or even after conviction.

If it were to be allowed, then we have been seriously misled as to the prison system in Peru.

JMO


Lifesong I wonder if the reporter was speaking of the past?

I agree that I don't think they would allow Joran to have an interview with the Press.

Joran's glory days when he could demand $$$'s for his lies are over. 
Maybe he taught Mama Sloot something though.  $$$'s on the lives of the innocent young victims.  How low can you go?!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 12:54:29 PM
Joran van der Sloot Case: broadcast photographs of the scene of the crime of Stephany Flores (with video)

The footage appreciate the personal property of the young murdered and the perpetrator, the Netherlands citizen now held in the Castro Castro prison

New evidence that could be used as evidence to incriminate more Joran van der Sloot, the confessed murderer of the young Stephany Flores, were published by a website.

In images broadcast by the news on TV "90 Seconds", are seen photographs taken at the crime scene, among which Flores Stephany clothes, like his blue jean shorts, a black polo and other objects of the victim.

Also, there are also personal belongings of Van der Sloot. These polos, shorts and a white shirt with the same red spots, which correspond to blood group Stephany Flores.

Objects that the Dutchman handed to taxi drivers who facilitated his escape to India, coffee cups and Atlantic City casino tickets were also photographed, as shown in the web portal RadarOnline.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/496753/caso-joran-van-der-sloot-difunden-fotografias-escena-crimen-stephany-flores


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 12:56:11 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

That's exactly what I thought too.


I didn't think she would ever face the truth.  The spin the Joran supporters, lead by Anita, will be that Joran was a delight until Beth wrongly accused him in the disappearance of Natalee.

Being the sensitive type, this so traumatized him that it was only then that he just snapped or caved under the pressure of being wrongly accused.

Nevermind that he viciously killed his own dog and blamed Herbie Merryweather, had to be put in that shed because he kicked his own brothers so, had to go to therapy for beating a child at school as demanded by the parents of that child, threw the child through a plate glass window, showed a knife to tourist and threatened him at Dunkin Donuts, threw a choller off a bridge, pulled a knife on a girl in Carlos & Charlies and on and on. . .but you get the picture.

Greta, we did this twenty times before and nothing bad happened--Joran.

Anita will never admit what Joran truly is and has always been.  It would totally invalidate her whole permissive philosophy of life.

JMO but you know I'm right.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 12:56:11 PM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

If I recall correctly when she did the interview with Rita Cosby in 2005, it was at the insistence of the lovely talented, Julia Renfro, friend and confidant of the ever-so-charming Anita (mother to our favorite murderer and handmaiden benefactor of the brilliant but deceased loser Paulus).

Tyler - have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts.  They convey my type of humour along with common sense and much truth. Thank you for all these years of sharing your thoughts with us.

OT - I do hope this is a good year for the roses. 

Tyler, I have been dying to ask about the roses.  I heard you talking about salt in the soil and didn't dare ask.



Oh, Barely, thank you for asking.  They were really beautiful this spring but they are about 200 less than I had at one time.  I had to shovel-prune about 200 because they got a virus that blew in during Katrina and we thought we lost about 50 that year, but it appears that the virus laid dormant in the soil or the roses and the following Spring many more showed signs of the disease (rose rosette disease, which is fatal and will infect other roses).  We had to shovel-prune quite a few more and bought some pretty nasty insecticides that had to be pretty toxic as we had to have prescriptions for it from a county agent.  It seems we are okay now (knocking on wood) and maybe it was all good.  We seem to have a healthier group of roses that requires less care and just enough to make a beautiful statement!  They are still pretty but they were magnificent this spring, because we had a very cold winter which meant they bloomed more.  Plants that survive a cold winter bloom better because they "set more fruit."

Thank you for asking.  I am sorry I was a long time responding but I took a long summer's nap.  Unable to sleep last night due to old age pains, I was up until early morning hours.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 18, 2010, 12:56:33 PM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.

Yes I bet she received a hefty sum!

o/t - how's that great Pruvian coffee this morning Ono?

Fantastic!  I'm purchasing more today-Winn Dixie has it in their organics section.  :)

I found mine in the organics section as well.

Three cheers for Peruvian coffee purchasers!!!  I will look for it when my stock runs out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 18, 2010, 01:01:27 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

That's exactly what I thought too.


I didn't think she would ever face the truth.  The spin the Joran supporters, lead by Anita, will be that Joran was a delight until Beth wrongly accused him in the disappearance of Natalee.

Being the sensitive type, this so traumatized him that it was only then that he just snapped or caved under the pressure of being wrongly accused.

Nevermind that he viciously killed his own dog and blamed Herbie Merryweather, had to be put in that shed because he kicked his own brothers so, had to go to therapy for beating a child at school as demanded by the parents of that child, threw the child through a plate glass window, showed a knife to tourist and threatened him at Dunkin Donuts, threw a choller off a bridge, pulled a knife on a girl in Carlos & Charlies and on and on. . .but you get the picture.

Greta, we did this twenty times before and nothing bad happened--Joran.

Anita will never admit what Joran truly is and has always been.  It would totally invalidate her whole permissive philosophy of life.

JMO but you know I'm right.

.

ITA Anna.  Now she will add his father's death to her pity list.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 01:03:22 PM
This current attempt to humanize a common vicious murderer is revolting.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:10:58 PM
arubanews: Joran van der Sloot, "condemned by the media? - Radio Nederland

"Peru live in a democracy and there is full respect for fundamental rights. Joran van der Sloot have a fair trial."

The Peruvian justice system is under international pressure over the case of the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who ask Judge Carlos Morales on Monday June 21 in a prison.
 

Listen to the interview with the lawyer Edward Alvarez:

 
As formal start of the trial against the Dutchman, the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima scheduled interrogation Joran Van der Sloot, in the process remains as the alleged perpetrator of the crimes of murder and theft to the detriment of the young Stephany Flores.
 
Stagecoach, presided by Judge Carlos Morales, will be held Monday at the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Canto Grande, where the Dutchman meets detention since 11 June.
 
It will be a closed-door interrogation, in legal terms is known as the investigative stage, which can extend up to twelve months before the start of the trial against van der Sloot.
 
During the coming weeks, Judge Morales will be responsible for clarifying the facts and determine the responsibilities of Joran Van der Sloot, aged 22, in the murder of Stephany Flores, 21.
 
If convicted, Van der Sloot could face a prison sentence of not less than 15 years.
 
In an exclusive interview with Radio Netherlands International, Edward Alvarez Flores family's lawyer, insists on the guarantees and rights that exist in Peru so that Joran van der Sloot in front of a fair trial.
 
In the words of counsel, "Peru live in a democracy and as such, there is a full respect for fundamental rights, among them, the judiciary and penal system instances to ensure that the process followed to Joran van der Sloot is framed within the guarantee of due process. The principle of presumption of innocence can not be called into question until a final decision is final. "
 
The way in which Joran van der Sloot was shown to the national and international press a week ago sparked criticism from the Netherlands authorities, which suggest that Van der Sloot "had already been condemned by the media."
 
Alvarez acknowledges that "you have treated a little media to information about the case. It's common in Peru's courts, but we in no way questioned the principle of presumption of innocence of Joran van der Sloot. Nor can be presented in a situation that undermines human dignity ".
 
Testing
Judge Cordova Morales has ordered psychological examinations and psychiatric Joran van der Sloot, and the ratification of the autopsy and all the expert opinions made in the preliminary stage. The inquest continues and Alvarez explains what is still unknown about the evidence.

 
"In the course of the judicial inquiry," she adds, "there is much to complete. A key is reading the files found in the 'laptop' from Joran Van der Sloot, because we do not know what information it contains . Also lacking magazine record of phone calls received Stephany Flores. We received calls from Joran days before his death. There are people in the casino who had knowledge of the presence of Joran van der Sloot, if you earned money and if it is true who entered with such amount of money the place. "
 
The computer's hard drive van der Sloot would contain information about the murder in 2005 in Aruba of American Natalee Holloway (18).
 
Authorities in Aruba and the United States to Peru have requested that you immediately what kind of information is concerned.
 
Extradition
Alvarez's lawyer insists that Joran van der Sloot "definitely will not be extradited. Peru has an agreement with Holland, so this figure is not feasible. Confirmed the authorship of the assassination, Van der Sloot will have to serve his sentence in Peru. I I may not return to the Netherlands to a penalty when there is an agreement with Peru. "
 
RNW sources who requested anonymity say the mother of Joran van der Sloot is trying to achieve your child's extradition to the Netherlands.

http://www.rnw.nl/espanol/article/joran-van-der-sloot-%C2%BFcondenado-por-los-medios


Oh, hell no!  There is NO "international pressure" being exerted on Peru to handle Joran any differently that they do their other prisoners!

It's only the DUTCH and Arubans who are at all concerned with Joran's rights!  The rest of the world wants him treated WORSE!!!

So the whining of his own does not really count.  I have not seen one single other country speaking out on behalf of Joran.

All I have seen is concern that Peru not allow him to avoid punishment the way Aruba and the Dutch did before.  THey are delusional if they think anybody is worried about Joran's rights!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 01:11:19 PM

Thank you for asking.  I am sorry I was a long time responding but I took a long summer's nap.  Unable to sleep last night due to old age pains, I was up until early morning hours.

Tylergal

Getting old sucks!  A nap throughout the day implies a sleepless night for me.  On a good night ... I only sleep only six or seven hours.  Often I am up ... wide awake .. doing chores at 5:00 am.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
This current attempt to humanize a common vicious murderer is revolting.   

It is a betrayal to the victims.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 01:14:20 PM
VIDEO: First Look At Joran Van Der Sloot In Prison

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/06/video-first-look-joran-van-der-sloot-prison

thanks NR...Good Afternoon Monks and Guests...have been watching HLN all morning while getting my chores done....they have shown Jean C. at the prison so much I can almost relate it word for word.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 01:14:42 PM
This current attempt to humanize a common vicious murderer is revolting.   

I know... I know Ono... I`m feeling ya! Just remember to take 30 seconds every once in awhile to breathe in deep and relax... and remember, this mofo is gonna be deader that a doornail very soon. No worries.

All efforts to save him will fail miserably. He`s spent.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 01:16:14 PM
Ex girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot: "He was amazing and romantic."
His name is Melody Granadillo and seven years ago had a seven-month romantic relationship with the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot.

"He was unbelievable," said Granadillo in an interview on "20/20" on ABC.

"It was romantic, we sat and talked for hours. We liked to look at the eyes, "he said. Both were 17 when they met at a birthday party in Aruba.

A RELATIONSHIP WAS DEEP
Granadillo narrated that saves some objects of that relationship as photos, emails and a daily special.

"We joked around a lot," she wrote on one of their first sexual encounters with Van der Sloot. "He wanted a sensual dance and gave it (...) was an amazing night, romantic and fun."

However, she also reported some details that are now known for his controversial personality. "He could lie for no apparent reason," he said.

http://www.moda.com.pe/entretinimiento/peru/ex-novia-de-joran-van-der-sloot-%C3%A9l-era-asombroso-y-rom%C3%A1ntico

I fail to see why anyone is interested in the romantic ramblings of puppy love ............who cares!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 01:17:53 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks Jo-An......sounds like this is going to be a pity me interview


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 18, 2010, 01:27:40 PM
Can we count the ways Joran has taunted Natalee’s family about what finally happened that night?

I’m confused on a couple of these, but let’s start with --

Dropped off at Holiday Inn
Left on beach (many variations on this story)
In the ocean (Peter de Vries recording)
Sold (Greta interview, later retracted)
Off a balcony (Jaap? interview)
Left in swamp/pond (Jaap? map)
Buried at a pre-construction site (John Q Kelly)

--  and I’m sure some smart monkeys can make corrections and add to.


Lets not forget in a plastic bag in a cement  square at the head of a pond.
(can't recall the word used for that cement square)


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2024/pondbag.jpg)


Flipped and I hit negitive they saw Natalee's face..

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2024/pondbagorigpossrev.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 01:30:40 PM
Ex girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot: "He was amazing and romantic."
His name is Melody Granadillo and seven years ago had a seven-month romantic relationship with the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot.

"He was unbelievable," said Granadillo in an interview on "20/20" on ABC.

"It was romantic, we sat and talked for hours. We liked to look at the eyes, "he said. Both were 17 when they met at a birthday party in Aruba.

A RELATIONSHIP WAS DEEP
Granadillo narrated that saves some objects of that relationship as photos, emails and a daily special.

"We joked around a lot," she wrote on one of their first sexual encounters with Van der Sloot. "He wanted a sensual dance and gave it (...) was an amazing night, romantic and fun."

However, she also reported some details that are now known for his controversial personality. "He could lie for no apparent reason," he said.

http://www.moda.com.pe/entretinimiento/peru/ex-novia-de-joran-van-der-sloot-%C3%A9l-era-asombroso-y-rom%C3%A1ntico

I fail to see why anyone is interested in the romantic ramblings of puppy love ............who cares!!

Have you seen those fruity pictures and letters? I mean, we all have done some of that stuff... and maybe even saved a few things...

...BUT IF I EVER HAD THEM BROADCASTED ON ABC 20/20...

I do believe I would go drown myself in a lake.

How embarrassing!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:31:01 PM
O/T  I have been unable to locate Peruvian coffee locally but have not checked everywhere because of the heat index being so high.

Meanwhile, you can find the amazon search box on this page somewhere.  By clicking on it, I find about 80.  Some are whole beans and I do not currently own a grinder so will have to go with ground.  Watch the amounts and prices and some are not too expensive.

I think I am going to go with this one below.  And by the way, if you go to Amazon from this webpage, SM gets a tiny rebate.  Not much but if we all do it routinely, it will add up to a little bit.

Anwyay, here's the link to the coffee I chose:

http://www.amazon.com/First-Colony-Peruvian-Mountain-Certified/dp/B001O1Z5JK/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1276881559&sr=8-20




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 18, 2010, 01:31:29 PM
Can we count the ways Joran has taunted Natalee’s family about what finally happened that night?

I’m confused on a couple of these, but let’s start with --

Dropped off at Holiday Inn
Left on beach (many variations on this story)
In the ocean (Peter de Vries recording)
Sold (Greta interview, later retracted)
Off a balcony (Jaap? interview)
Left in swamp/pond (Jaap? map)
Buried at a pre-construction site (John Q Kelly)

--  and I’m sure some smart monkeys can make corrections and add to.


Lets not forget in a plastic bag in a cement  square at the head of a pond.
(can't recall the word used for that cement square)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2024/pondbag.jpg)


Flipped and I hit negitive they saw Natalee's face..

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2024/pondbagorigpossrev.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 01:31:42 PM
Video : Journalist visits Joran cell just before the journalist may enter the cell, Joran is housed elsewhere. He would not be interviewed and the camera crew goes in alone to shoot. It shows a small room with a toilet, running water and a bed with a mattress. Dutch books on the bed including a Bible.

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/2010/journalist-bezoekt-cel-van-joran/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:35:29 PM
This current attempt to humanize a common vicious murderer is revolting.   

I know... I know Ono... I`m feeling ya! Just remember to take 30 seconds every once in awhile to breathe in deep and relax... and remember, this mofo is gonna be deader that a doornail very soon. No worries.

All efforts to save him will fail miserably. He`s spent.


And nobody except for his supporters care about Joran's human rights!  If anything, they are thrilled to see him in such austere surroundings and hope he gets sent to the WORSE prison.  Parading him before the media is standard in most countries that to not empathize with the criminal instead of the victim.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 01:35:36 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

I am just mulling over thoughts in my mind, but I believe American TV did not offer her enough money and she made it sound as if they were the bad guys, not her money-grubbing.  You need not turn to a dictionary for the definition of lying witch, you can see it in her lying eyes and the glasses in that picture with Joran are only to hide the lies and evil she embodies.  She is truly the one from whom Joran inherited evil.  I think she cast Paulus into her spell and made him evil, but if you notice, she always seems to be the puppetmeister and Paulus, Joran, et al, are her puppets and their die was cast when she came in personal contact with them, either through marriage or at birth.  She is EVIL.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 18, 2010, 01:37:07 PM
There's a Bible in his cell?  Did he know what is?  Had he ever heard of the Bible?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 01:37:45 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

That's exactly what I thought too.


I didn't think she would ever face the truth.  The spin the Joran supporters, lead by Anita, will be that Joran was a delight until Beth wrongly accused him in the disappearance of Natalee.

Being the sensitive type, this so traumatized him that it was only then that he just snapped or caved under the pressure of being wrongly accused.

Nevermind that he viciously killed his own dog and blamed Herbie Merryweather, had to be put in that shed because he kicked his own brothers so, had to go to therapy for beating a child at school as demanded by the parents of that child, threw the child through a plate glass window, showed a knife to tourist and threatened him at Dunkin Donuts, threw a choller off a bridge, pulled a knife on a girl in Carlos & Charlies and on and on. . .but you get the picture.

Greta, we did this twenty times before and nothing bad happened--Joran.

Anita will never admit what Joran truly is and has always been.  It would totally invalidate her whole permissive philosophy of life.

JMO but you know I'm right.

.

I agree.   And I add I don't think she likes Americans either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 18, 2010, 01:38:46 PM
Shouldn't he have to be human to have human rights?  Anyway, he's forfieted his.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 01:39:42 PM
Can we count the ways Joran has taunted Natalee’s family about what finally happened that night?

I’m confused on a couple of these, but let’s start with --

Dropped off at Holiday Inn
Left on beach (many variations on this story)
In the ocean (Peter de Vries recording)
Sold (Greta interview, later retracted)
Off a balcony (Jaap? interview)
Left in swamp/pond (Jaap? map)
Buried at a pre-construction site (John Q Kelly)

--  and I’m sure some smart monkeys can make corrections and add to.


Remember the early morning hour run to the Light house, maybe around June 10-11.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 01:40:18 PM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST (I'm not real good at it)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/06/18/joran-van-der-sloot-ex-girlfriends-nickname-should-be-lucky/

Joran van der Sloot: Ex-girlfriend’s Nickname Should Be “LUCKY”


Lucky is right!!   Someone should make Chris aware of Joran's brutal behaviour very early in life-killing his own dog, etc.

I bet Melody received a hefty little sum from ABC for this ...  So Anthony-esque.

Yes I bet she received a hefty sum!

o/t - how's that great Pruvian coffee this morning Ono?

Fantastic!  I'm purchasing more today-Winn Dixie has it in their organics section.  :)

I found mine in the organics section as well.

Three cheers for Peruvian coffee purchasers!!!  I will look for it when my stock runs out.

It's a 'keeper' and I'm really hard to please!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:42:59 PM
Ex girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot: "He was amazing and romantic."
His name is Melody Granadillo and seven years ago had a seven-month romantic relationship with the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot.

"He was unbelievable," said Granadillo in an interview on "20/20" on ABC.

"It was romantic, we sat and talked for hours. We liked to look at the eyes, "he said. Both were 17 when they met at a birthday party in Aruba.

A RELATIONSHIP WAS DEEP
Granadillo narrated that saves some objects of that relationship as photos, emails and a daily special.

"We joked around a lot," she wrote on one of their first sexual encounters with Van der Sloot. "He wanted a sensual dance and gave it (...) was an amazing night, romantic and fun."

However, she also reported some details that are now known for his controversial personality. "He could lie for no apparent reason," he said.

http://www.moda.com.pe/entretinimiento/peru/ex-novia-de-joran-van-der-sloot-%C3%A9l-era-asombroso-y-rom%C3%A1ntico

I fail to see why anyone is interested in the romantic ramblings of puppy love ............who cares!!

Have you seen those fruity pictures and letters? I mean, we all have done some of that stuff... and maybe even saved a few things...

...BUT IF I EVER HAD THEM BROADCASTED ON ABC 20/20...

I do believe I would go drown myself in a lake.

How embarrassing!


Melody is 2 years older than Joran so how could they both be 17 when they met  I think Joran was 15?

So just how "deep" is a relationship with a 15 yo sociopath?  Yes, one can just feel the depth by those silly writings and childish drawings, etc.

They are all cashing in on Natalee's tragedy for their personal gain.  Makes me sick and is giving me a headache already today.

And we have that Dateline program tonight, 20/20.  I sure hope it is not more of the same along these lines.  I will have to take BP pill.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 18, 2010, 01:44:52 PM
And his mother has forfeited any iota of credibility; maybe she ought to pick up that Bible from the props department when she visits that lying murdering son of hers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 01:45:06 PM
That is interesting: he claims to be agnostic.

The Bible must make a really nice mattress leveler for Joran.

Agnostic?  He knows there is good and evil and God and the devil as he's one of Satan's angels.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 01:53:28 PM
I am going to take a break as I have let the combo of Melody and Anita get to me.  Between that and the Gulf Oil effecting the dolphins and being seen in the FL Keys now, it's just hard to take some days.

I am torn between wanting to know what these people have to say and supporting the media that gives them an audience.  Frustrating to have to endorse the media to see what they say.  But Anita will try to spin this as Joran was a dream child until Beth messed up his head and it's hard to deal with that, too.

Taking an Excedrin and one of those long summer naps I hope.  That is one thing 100+ heat index will do for you even inside in the A/C.  Some how your body knows how hot it is anyway and will just go to sleep at the drop of a hat.

BBL and sorry for cussing before noon.  At least I didn't spit.  Yet.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 01:57:10 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks Jo-An......sounds like this is going to be a pity me interview

.... as well as a "poor Joran" interview.

I can hear just hear it ....

"My Joran has never been the same since the false accusations that have abounded following the disappearance of an American girl on the Island five years ago.  The stigma has led him down the path of addictions ... addictions to drugs and alcohol ... substances he never touched prior."

Janet

+++++++++

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Any drug use or alcohol use by him?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 01:57:41 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

I am just mulling over thoughts in my mind, but I believe American TV did not offer her enough money and she made it sound as if they were the bad guys, not her money-grubbing.  You need not turn to a dictionary for the definition of lying witch, you can see it in her lying eyes and the glasses in that picture with Joran are only to hide the lies and evil she embodies.  She is truly the one from whom Joran inherited evil.  I think she cast Paulus into her spell and made him evil, but if you notice, she always seems to be the puppetmeister and Paulus, Joran, et al, are her puppets and their die was cast when she came in personal contact with them, either through marriage or at birth.  She is EVIL.

I have a sick feeling that Anita plans to spin this as JKelly & Beth entrapped Joran and then pushed him over the edge and he fled to Peru. She will never, ever admit the truth for then she might have to take some responsibility in this.

Anyway Anita can find to blame Beth for everything Joran has done, she will.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 01:58:53 PM
This current attempt to humanize a common vicious murderer is revolting.   

I know... I know Ono... I`m feeling ya! Just remember to take 30 seconds every once in awhile to breathe in deep and relax... and remember, this mofo is gonna be deader that a doornail very soon. No worries.

All efforts to save him will fail miserably. He`s spent.

I hope you're right, Carpe-I'm so weary from this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 02:00:05 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks Jo-An......sounds like this is going to be a pity me interview

.... as well as a "poor Joran" interview.

I can hear just hear it ....

"My Joran has never been the same since the false accusations that have abounded following the disappearance of an American girl on the Island five years ago.  The stigma has led him down the path of addictions ... addictions to drugs and alcohol ... substances he never touched prior."

Janet

+++++++++

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Any drug use or alcohol use by him?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

I suspect she will add gambling to the list of his addictions, of course, the fact he learned to do that at his father's knee has no bearing in this, right?

It's all beyond the pale the effort to blame whoever and however. The Flores family may soon change their opinion regarding Anita's culpability.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 02:03:55 PM
This is part of the 20/20 interview; I don't think this part has been posted (apologies if it has).

*
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217 (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217)

"I know that he has a gambling problem, so I thought maybe that was taking over," said Granadillo.

Despite their break-up, Granadillo never lost contact with van der Sloot, staying in touch through the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway and up until his now-infamous trip to Peru.

Granadillo talks to Cuomo about the Holloway's disappearance and her contact with van der Sloot during his trip to Peru where he met and allegedly killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores.

On the day that van der Sloot was arrested for the murder of Flores, Granadillo says she received a text message from van der Sloot asking him for money to buy a ticket back to Aruba. In the text message van der Sloot reportedly wrote, "I have some cash with me still so I am fine just lost the bank card and the ticket back today is 520 I would have liked to be able to be back today but cant do anything about it so much bad luck sometimes."

Van der Sloot's text messages stopped as Granadillo heard about the murder of Flores.

"I did feel guilty," said Granadillo. "Maybe if I had stayed in his life, you know, nothing would have happened."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 02:05:09 PM
Video : Journalist visits Joran cell just before the journalist may enter the cell, Joran is housed elsewhere. He would not be interviewed and the camera crew goes in alone to shoot. It shows a small room with a toilet, running water and a bed with a mattress. Dutch books on the bed including a Bible.

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/2010/journalist-bezoekt-cel-van-joran/
So, they went as far as installing plumbing in that cell for the TV coverage?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 18, 2010, 02:06:38 PM
And his mother has forfeited any iota of credibility; maybe she ought to pick up that Bible from the props department when she visits that lying murdering son of hers.

If she touches a bible her hands will burn.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Brandi on June 18, 2010, 02:14:34 PM


          (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/roz.jpg)                    (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/ISABingo_04252010_4-1.jpg)



The only difference is that Roz ends up being one of the good guys.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Image56-1.png)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 02:15:22 PM
And his mother has forfeited any iota of credibility; maybe she ought to pick up that Bible from the props department when she visits that lying murdering son of hers.

If she touches a bible her hands will burn.

True.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 02:16:59 PM


          (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/roz.jpg)                    (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/ISABingo_04252010_4-1.jpg)



The only difference is that Roz ends up being one of the good guys.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Image56-1.png)

ROFLMAO

Perfect!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 02:22:00 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepak3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/satish4.jpg)

I`m gonna catch me a little poo tinky Kalpoe...

Stuff em in a shoe box...

Bop em on the head!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: loca on June 18, 2010, 02:23:22 PM
This is part of the 20/20 interview; I don't think this part has been posted (apologies if it has).

*
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217 (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217)

"I know that he has a gambling problem, so I thought maybe that was taking over," said Granadillo.

Despite their break-up, Granadillo never lost contact with van der Sloot, staying in touch through the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway and up until his now-infamous trip to Peru.

Granadillo talks to Cuomo about the Holloway's disappearance and her contact with van der Sloot during his trip to Peru where he met and allegedly killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores.

On the day that van der Sloot was arrested for the murder of Flores, Granadillo says she received a text message from van der Sloot asking him for money to buy a ticket back to Aruba. In the text message van der Sloot reportedly wrote, "I have some cash with me still so I am fine just lost the bank card and the ticket back today is 520 I would have liked to be able to be back today but cant do anything about it so much bad luck sometimes."

Van der Sloot's text messages stopped as Granadillo heard about the murder of Flores.

"I did feel guilty," said Granadillo. "Maybe if I had stayed in his life, you know, nothing would have happened."


he calls it bad luck omg!!! spare me its more like!! bad judgement and evil  intent.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 02:25:22 PM
Ex girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot: "He was amazing and romantic."
His name is Melody Granadillo and seven years ago had a seven-month romantic relationship with the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot.

"He was unbelievable," said Granadillo in an interview on "20/20" on ABC.

"It was romantic, we sat and talked for hours. We liked to look at the eyes, "he said. Both were 17 when they met at a birthday party in Aruba.

A RELATIONSHIP WAS DEEP
Granadillo narrated that saves some objects of that relationship as photos, emails and a daily special.

"We joked around a lot," she wrote on one of their first sexual encounters with Van der Sloot. "He wanted a sensual dance and gave it (...) was an amazing night, romantic and fun."

However, she also reported some details that are now known for his controversial personality. "He could lie for no apparent reason," he said.

http://www.moda.com.pe/entretinimiento/peru/ex-novia-de-joran-van-der-sloot-%C3%A9l-era-asombroso-y-rom%C3%A1ntico

I fail to see why anyone is interested in the romantic ramblings of puppy love ............who cares!!

Have you seen those fruity pictures and letters? I mean, we all have done some of that stuff... and maybe even saved a few things...

...BUT IF I EVER HAD THEM BROADCASTED ON ABC 20/20...

I do believe I would go drown myself in a lake.

How embarrassing!

Same here...and what the hell does it have to do with Natalee or Stephany????  BLOOD MONEY SUCKERS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: loca on June 18, 2010, 02:25:37 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepak3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/satish4.jpg)

I`m gonna catch me a little poo tinky Kalpoe...

Stuff em in a shoe box...

Bop em on the head!




carpe
 they need to scare the poop out of these two evils as they did joran. I am sure he will  eventualy throw them under the bus. they gotta be running a lil sceered ya think?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: martini on June 18, 2010, 02:26:59 PM
Come Monday..

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-23653--11-11--.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 02:27:14 PM
Does anyone else remember when Anita was trying to put the Kalpoe boys down and stating that Joran had not known them very long, in other words, implying they were a bad influence on him and that they probably are the heavies and her baby was just along for the ride with the wicked dark-skinned boys.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: loca on June 18, 2010, 02:28:09 PM
Ex girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot: "He was amazing and romantic."
His name is Melody Granadillo and seven years ago had a seven-month romantic relationship with the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot.

"He was unbelievable," said Granadillo in an interview on "20/20" on ABC.

"It was romantic, we sat and talked for hours. We liked to look at the eyes, "he said. Both were 17 when they met at a birthday party in Aruba.

A RELATIONSHIP WAS DEEP
Granadillo narrated that saves some objects of that relationship as photos, emails and a daily special.

"We joked around a lot," she wrote on one of their first sexual encounters with Van der Sloot. "He wanted a sensual dance and gave it (...) was an amazing night, romantic and fun."

However, she also reported some details that are now known for his controversial personality. "He could lie for no apparent reason," he said.

http://www.moda.com.pe/entretinimiento/peru/ex-novia-de-joran-van-der-sloot-%C3%A9l-era-asombroso-y-rom%C3%A1ntico

I fail to see why anyone is interested in the romantic ramblings of puppy love ............who cares!!

Have you seen those fruity pictures and letters? I mean, we all have done some of that stuff... and maybe even saved a few things...

...BUT IF I EVER HAD THEM BROADCASTED ON ABC 20/20...

I do believe I would go drown myself in a lake.

How embarrassing!

Same here...and what the hell does it have to do with Natalee or Stephany????  BLOOD MONEY SUCKERS

she says they liked to look at the ice!! lucky for her she didnt end up on ice in some morgue. Seven months is not enough time to know someone and besides he was playing her! he was telling her what she wanted to hear.  The girl is so naive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Dragnet on June 18, 2010, 02:30:14 PM
As far as Joran and his bible goes, anyone remember this from back in June 2005? LOL

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: You know, we were so pleased that he was transported because we thought it would be a little more mild on him and he could rest a little more. At least, he has a bed now. And I could bring a cushion and clean sheets for him and some clothes because he couldn't shave during the last 10 days, hardly shower — he could shower, but also not enough water to brush his teeth, et cetera, et cetera. He couldn't — the only thing he could read was the Bible he got from a very nice police guy. He got a Bible to read.

And he was telling me, Mommy, look at me, I'm reading the Bible. Did you ever think about that? And I think it's great. It's difficult to read. So yesterday, I thought at least, you know, he can have some books. He can write things because I think that's very important for a 17-year-old boy to write down certain experiences,
just to read it over again later and see if it helps him to come through a difficult time. But he cannot have access to anything.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 18, 2010, 02:30:43 PM
That's funny, San.  I guess that's why it doesn't seem that any of that family has read the Bible.

Anita does seem to know her son, though; I mean, I read that she said he has addictions...and we all know he's addicted to murdering people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 02:31:05 PM
I am going to take a break as I have let the combo of Melody and Anita get to me.  Between that and the Gulf Oil effecting the dolphins and being seen in the FL Keys now, it's just hard to take some days.

I am torn between wanting to know what these people have to say and supporting the media that gives them an audience.  Frustrating to have to endorse the media to see what they say.  But Anita will try to spin this as Joran was a dream child until Beth messed up his head and it's hard to deal with that, too.

Taking an Excedrin and one of those long summer naps I hope.  That is one thing 100+ heat index will do for you even inside in the A/C.  Some how your body knows how hot it is anyway and will just go to sleep at the drop of a hat.

BBL and sorry for cussing before noon.  At least I didn't spit.  Yet..

I know how you feel about it getting to you.....and on top of that this frigging server...I have been cussing and spitting and stomping my feet all morning....trying to post has been a CHALLENGE....Kudos to those of you that are able to post~!~


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 02:32:02 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks Jo-An......sounds like this is going to be a pity me interview

.... as well as a "poor Joran" interview.

I can hear just hear it ....

"My Joran has never been the same since the false accusations that have abounded following the disappearance of an American girl on the Island five years ago.  The stigma has led him down the path of addictions ... addictions to drugs and alcohol ... substances he never touched prior."

Janet

+++++++++

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Any drug use or alcohol use by him?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

I suspect she will add gambling to the list of his addictions, of course, the fact he learned to do that at his father's knee has no bearing in this, right?

It's all beyond the pale the effort to blame whoever and however. The Flores family may soon change their opinion regarding Anita's culpability.

I hope so none.

Stephany's family and the Peruvian law enforcement do not seem to comprehend that a cover up to protect Joran ... not a failed investigation ... is why justice has not prevailed for Natalee Holloway.

It is recognized that Joran is the bad guy but ... on the other hand ... the desire to assist the Aruban investigation in apprehending Joran as well as ... empathizing with Anita is where it is at.

I wish Stephany's family and Peruvian law enforcement could be convinced that cooperation with Aruban investigators in the sharing of the contents of the laptop ... by the return of Joran to Aruba to serve his sentence in the Netherlands/Aruba ... is only furthering the objective of justice for Natalee Holloway. 

Janet
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 02:32:07 PM
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA IN TOMORROW'S PAPER VERSION OF "DE TELEGRAAF"

Joran mother breaks silence

WILLEMSTAD - Anita van der Sloot break after years of silence. In her home in Aruba says the mother of Joran exclusively to The Telegraph about the derailment of her son and the difficulties that arose after the death of her husband, former judge Paul.

The Dutch have since her television appearance in Pauw en Witteman, in early 2008, did not comment further about Joran. She decided, however, again and tells her story to the newspaper on Saturday in the years of misery with her eldest son.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6988967/__Moeder_Joran_verbreekt_stilzwijgen__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

I have never ever bought De Telegraaf before in my life, but I will tomorrow!
I hope part of the interview will also appear online, otherwise I will translate the whole thing and post it here!

Thanks Jo-An......sounds like this is going to be a pity me interview

.... as well as a "poor Joran" interview.

I can hear just hear it ....

"My Joran has never been the same since the false accusations that have abounded following the disappearance of an American girl on the Island five years ago.  The stigma has led him down the path of addictions ... addictions to drugs and alcohol ... substances he never touched prior."

Janet

+++++++++

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Any drug use or alcohol use by him?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

my my how times have changed for the angel sporter!!  BITE ME!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 02:41:55 PM
Does anyone else remember when Anita was trying to put the Kalpoe boys down and stating that Joran had not known them very long, in other words, implying they were a bad influence on him and that they probably are the heavies and her baby was just along for the ride with the wicked dark-skinned boys.

I do Tyler.....talk about denial.....she was drowning in it from early on


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 02:46:39 PM
As far as Joran and his bible goes, anyone remember this from back in June 2005? LOL

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: You know, we were so pleased that he was transported because we thought it would be a little more mild on him and he could rest a little more. At least, he has a bed now. And I could bring a cushion and clean sheets for him and some clothes because he couldn't shave during the last 10 days, hardly shower — he could shower, but also not enough water to brush his teeth, et cetera, et cetera. He couldn't — the only thing he could read was the Bible he got from a very nice police guy. He got a Bible to read.

And he was telling me, Mommy, look at me, I'm reading the Bible. Did you ever think about that? And I think it's great. It's difficult to read. So yesterday, I thought at least, you know, he can have some books. He can write things because I think that's very important for a 17-year-old boy to write down certain experiences,
just to read it over again later and see if it helps him to come through a difficult time. But he cannot have access to anything.



He probably was interested only in Solomon, who had 1000 women.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 02:47:56 PM
Anita said one true thing:

In an exclusive email sent to ABC News, Anita van der Sloot wrote:

"I am not giving interviews to any American media station because I don't trust them. Stay safe and pray for Joran. He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."

* * *
She needs help – among other things, get thee to an Al Anon or similar support group for an addict’s family. She is dragging herself and her other two sons into the maelstrom that is addiction, whether alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc. (or combinations thereof, which is probably the case here).

Below specifically talks about alcoholism, but it applies to all addictions … Google “enabler” + “codependency” for tons of results.

"Members of alcoholic’s families very often become codependent. “Codependency is an unconscious addiction to another person’s abnormal behavior” (Wekesser, 1994, p.168). Most alcoholics have periods when they stop drinking for a short while and seemingly do well, leading the codependent person to believe that the problem can be solved. Often people who don’t know the alcoholic very well don’t suspect any problem. The alcoholic’s codependent family members do everything possible to hide the problem, preserve the family’s prestige and project the image of a “perfect family”. The spouse and children may avoid making friends and bringing other people home, in order to hide problems caused by alcoholism. Codependent members often forget about their own needs and desires. They devote their lives to attempt to control or cure the drinker. Unknowingly, codependent family members often become “enablers”. An enabler is “a person who unknowingly helps the alcoholic by denying the drinking problem exists and helping the alcoholic to get out of troubles caused by his drinking” (Silverstein, 1990, p.65). The enabler will clean up the alcoholic’s vomit and make excuses to his or her boss, teacher, or friends. The enabler lies for the alcoholic, and thus enables the alcoholic to continue drinking.

http://allpsych.com/journal/alcoholism.html (http://allpsych.com/journal/alcoholism.html)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 02:52:19 PM
This is part of the 20/20 interview; I don't think this part has been posted (apologies if it has).

*
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217 (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217)

"I know that he has a gambling problem, so I thought maybe that was taking over," said Granadillo.

Despite their break-up, Granadillo never lost contact with van der Sloot, staying in touch through the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway and up until his now-infamous trip to Peru.

Granadillo talks to Cuomo about the Holloway's disappearance and her contact with van der Sloot during his trip to Peru where he met and allegedly killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores.

On the day that van der Sloot was arrested for the murder of Flores, Granadillo says she received a text message from van der Sloot asking him for money to buy a ticket back to Aruba. In the text message van der Sloot reportedly wrote, "I have some cash with me still so I am fine just lost the bank card and the ticket back today is 520 I would have liked to be able to be back today but cant do anything about it so much bad luck sometimes."

Van der Sloot's text messages stopped as Granadillo heard about the murder of Flores.

"I did feel guilty," said Granadillo. "Maybe if I had stayed in his life, you know, nothing would have happened."


Just think, he murders Stephany with his bare hands - fractures her skull, breaks her neck, then smothers her for good measure ???

"so much bad luck sometimes"

It makes me want to retch, he had not one iota of respect for life, this man who grew up never having to worry about anything but what he wanted to do. I do not believe I have ever seen a case so blatantly bereft with entitlement and bigotry.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 02:54:23 PM
Does anyone else remember when Anita was trying to put the Kalpoe boys down and stating that Joran had not known them very long, in other words, implying they were a bad influence on him and that they probably are the heavies and her baby was just along for the ride with the wicked dark-skinned boys.

I do Tyler.....talk about denial.....she was drowning in it from early on

But it's worse than simple denial, she's convinced anything that happens to her sporter is the result of others - he is never guilty of anything, he is always blameless as is she.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 18, 2010, 02:57:51 PM
Yes, "so much bad luck sometimes" goes on that list of memorable quotes.

No body, no case
20 times before
watch your drink (to Dave, by Dompig, I think)
your own father
if they see that *hit
something bad happened
why you lie to mama?
so much bad luck sometimes


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
Yes, "so much bad luck sometimes" goes on that list of memorable quotes.

No body, no case
20 times before
watch your drink (to Dave, by Dompig, I think)
your own father
if they see that *hit
something bad happened
why you lie to mama?
so much bad luck sometimes

It really does, doesn't it?

Island time at it's best.......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 02:59:59 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepak3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/satish4.jpg)

I`m gonna catch me a little poo tinky Kalpoe...

Stuff em in a shoe box...

Bop em on the head!


LOL thanks for making me laugh......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 18, 2010, 03:02:00 PM
don't forget.....

Why does this shit always happen to ME!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 04:06:39 PM
Does anyone else remember when Anita was trying to put the Kalpoe boys down and stating that Joran had not known them very long, in other words, implying they were a bad influence on him and that they probably are the heavies and her baby was just along for the ride with the wicked dark-skinned boys.

I do Tyler.....talk about denial.....she was drowning in it from early on

But it's worse than simple denial, she's convinced anything that happens to her sporter is the result of others - he is never guilty of anything, he is always blameless as is she.

Victims.  We are becoming a society of victims.  Yes, it is true.  Evil becomes good and good becomes evil before the end and it is drawing nigh.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 04:42:21 PM
don't forget.....

Why does this shit always happen to ME!

...and my favorite is:  That Mother, she just wouldn't go away!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 04:47:42 PM
Mother of Joran van der Sloot: He's not a monster (Video of interview)
Friday, June 18, 2010 6:22 p.m.

The mother of Joran van der Sloot does not believe her son is a murderer. This is contained in an e-mail from Anita van der Sloot. Reported that the U.S. television network ABC.

It is the first time that the view of the mother of Joran being heard since the arrest of her son.


Pray
Joran is suspected of the murder of the Peruvian Stephany Flores Ramírez. He declared her to have been killed.

In an email to the ex-girlfriend of Joran, where ABC News managed to lay hands on, calls the mother of Joran in order to pray for him. "He's not a monster as everybody thinks. It is traumatized, depressed and has an addiction. He is no murderer. "


Complot
According to Anita van der Sloot conspiracy everything points to catch him to take.

The mail was for the 23-year-old ex-girlfriend of Joran, Melody Granadillo. ABC News talked exclusively with her. Granadillo met Van der Sloot when she was sixteen. Joran was as very romantic and wrote poems for her.


Holloway
The parents of Joran van der Sloot, his father died in February, also believed in the innocence of their son in connection with the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway schoolgirl. They said '200 percent 'to believe in his innocence five years ago in an interview with Nova.

"I'm sure my son has done nothing Natalee," said the mother of Joran then.

http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Nederland/268588/Moeder-van-Joran-van-der-Sloot-Hij-is-geen-monster.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 04:51:16 PM
June 18, 2010
 
Aruba Will Re-Open Joran van der Sloot Murder Case
Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is already facing criminal charges for his confession to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. He many now also be facing another court case, as Aruba's chief prosecutor, Peter Blanken, works to re-open the five-year-old Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

According to Fox News, Blanken hopes to send a team to Peru to question Joran van der Sloot near the end of August. Blanken says van der Sloot told Peruvian authorities that he wants to speak with Aruban Police about the Holloway case again, and that Peruvian authorities are open to cooperating with Aruban officials in the interview process.

Media outlets speculate that van der Sloot's change of heart can probably be attributed to fear: the Dutchman is afraid of serving time in Peruvian prison, and experts say he is hoping to be extradited to the United States to stand trial for the Holloway murder. If he is convicted in Peru, however, van der Sloot will have to serve his entire sentence there—which could be up to 35 years—before going on trial in Aruba.

Unlike his immediate confession in the Flores murder, van der Sloot has given Aruban authorities multiple accounts of what happened the night of Holloway's disappearance in 2005. Many of his confessions have actually been elaborate hoaxes set up by the Dutch playboy as a way to get extra money for gambling and travel. But now van der Sloot may be ready to get serious about his confession as friends, family and attorneys have turned their backs on the suspect.

Reports from the Peruvian jail say that the young man already has several murder plots against him inside the prison. Officials also say van der Sloot is on suicide watch.

http://www.biography.com/news/aruba-will-re-open-joran-van-der-sloot-murder-case-578300


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: antunym on June 18, 2010, 05:20:13 PM
"Blanken hopes" to send a team to Peru to question Joran van der Sloot near the end of August.

Well put the Frosted Flakes away, get off your a**es, and get over there and do something already ALE... DAMN!!

Sorry everyone I just want Natalee home!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 18, 2010, 05:28:32 PM
Does anyone know anything about this?

resigned  PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:28 pm         

Quote:
Joran's mother Anita van der Sloot is expected to vist her son for the first time on Friday and she is also in Peru to help in find a new attorney after his last two quit.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 05:42:27 PM
Does anyone know anything about this?

resigned  PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:28 pm         

Quote:
Joran's mother Anita van der Sloot is expected to vist her son for the first time on Friday and she is also in Peru to help in find a new attorney after his last two quit.


Resigned got it from this link:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/joran-van-der-sloots-prison-cell-abc-offers-first-look-video-2630924.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 18, 2010, 05:42:29 PM
The words of Anita was not an email received by ABC ... it was sent to Melody.

Maybe I was the only one who misunderstood.  Story of my life.  LOL

Janet

+++++

Exclusive: Joran van der Sloot's Mom: 'He Is Not a Murderer'
Anita van der Sloot Speaks For The First Time Since Her Son's Arrest
June 18, 2010


Joran van der Sloot's mother still believes her son is innocent, insisting in an email obtained exclusively by ABC News that "he is not a murderer."

Anita van der Sloot hasn't spoken publicly since her son's arrest in Peru, until now.

"I am not giving interviews to any American media station because I don't trust them. Stay safe and pray for Joran. He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."

Anita van der Sloot's email, apparently typed out quickly, was sent to close confidant and ex-girlfriend of Joran's, Melody Granadillo.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/article/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-speaks-time/story?id=10935217


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 18, 2010, 05:49:49 PM
Quote
He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."

..... and I'm the Tooth Fairy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 18, 2010, 05:51:05 PM
One sleeze sending email to another.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: sandy leiva on June 18, 2010, 05:54:35 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)

stond out of his mind with a glass of red wine sitting in front of him.

send it to People, klaas.

Manchester united soccer team shirt and emblem (not a badge) my sons are soccer buffs and have one from every team every where in this world. i just lokked thru thier closet n found it. same shirt Jorans wearing in that picture.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 05:55:52 PM
Does anyone else remember when Anita was trying to put the Kalpoe boys down and stating that Joran had not known them very long, in other words, implying they were a bad influence on him and that they probably are the heavies and her baby was just along for the ride with the wicked dark-skinned boys.

Yes-I do.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: sandy leiva on June 18, 2010, 05:58:07 PM
April 25, 2010 - ISA Bingo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)

stond out of his mind with a glass of red wine sitting in front of him.

send it to People, klaas.

Manchester united soccer team shirt and emblem (not a badge) my sons are soccer buffs and have one from every team every where in this world. i just lokked thru thier closet n found it. same shirt Jorans wearing in that picture.
oops sorry son says its an old barcelona soccer shirt not manchester united.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 18, 2010, 06:00:53 PM
Joran set his own trap and sealed his own fate...no one is to blame but JVDS.....period.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 06:01:31 PM
June 18, 2010
 
Aruba Will Re-Open Joran van der Sloot Murder Case
Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is already facing criminal charges for his confession to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. He many now also be facing another court case, as Aruba's chief prosecutor, Peter Blanken, works to re-open the five-year-old Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

According to Fox News, Blanken hopes to send a team to Peru to question Joran van der Sloot near the end of August. Blanken says van der Sloot told Peruvian authorities that he wants to speak with Aruban Police about the Holloway case again, and that Peruvian authorities are open to cooperating with Aruban officials in the interview process.

Media outlets speculate that van der Sloot's change of heart can probably be attributed to fear: the Dutchman is afraid of serving time in Peruvian prison, and experts say he is hoping to be extradited to the United States to stand trial for the Holloway murder. If he is convicted in Peru, however, van der Sloot will have to serve his entire sentence there—which could be up to 35 years—before going on trial in Aruba.

Unlike his immediate confession in the Flores murder, van der Sloot has given Aruban authorities multiple accounts of what happened the night of Holloway's disappearance in 2005. Many of his confessions have actually been elaborate hoaxes set up by the Dutch playboy as a way to get extra money for gambling and travel. But now van der Sloot may be ready to get serious about his confession as friends, family and attorneys have turned their backs on the suspect.

Reports from the Peruvian jail say that the young man already has several murder plots against him inside the prison. Officials also say van der Sloot is on suicide watch.

http://www.biography.com/news/aruba-will-re-open-joran-van-der-sloot-murder-case-578300

So now Joran wants to be extradited to the United States?  LOL-I wonder if that's really so. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 06:03:24 PM
June 18, 2010
 
Aruba Will Re-Open Joran van der Sloot Murder Case
Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is already facing criminal charges for his confession to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. He many now also be facing another court case, as Aruba's chief prosecutor, Peter Blanken, works to re-open the five-year-old Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

According to Fox News, Blanken hopes to send a team to Peru to question Joran van der Sloot near the end of August. Blanken says van der Sloot told Peruvian authorities that he wants to speak with Aruban Police about the Holloway case again, and that Peruvian authorities are open to cooperating with Aruban officials in the interview process.

Media outlets speculate that van der Sloot's change of heart can probably be attributed to fear: the Dutchman is afraid of serving time in Peruvian prison, and experts say he is hoping to be extradited to the United States to stand trial for the Holloway murder. If he is convicted in Peru, however, van der Sloot will have to serve his entire sentence there—which could be up to 35 years—before going on trial in Aruba.

Unlike his immediate confession in the Flores murder, van der Sloot has given Aruban authorities multiple accounts of what happened the night of Holloway's disappearance in 2005. Many of his confessions have actually been elaborate hoaxes set up by the Dutch playboy as a way to get extra money for gambling and travel. But now van der Sloot may be ready to get serious about his confession as friends, family and attorneys have turned their backs on the suspect.

Reports from the Peruvian jail say that the young man already has several murder plots against him inside the prison. Officials also say van der Sloot is on suicide watch.

http://www.biography.com/news/aruba-will-re-open-joran-van-der-sloot-murder-case-578300

So now Joran wants to be extradited to the United States?  LOL-I wonder if that's really so. 

I had that same thought LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 06:03:46 PM
Someone should tell Melody that Joran is not a nice person and that is why she broke up with him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 06:05:37 PM
HLN showing Melody now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 18, 2010, 06:14:23 PM
June 18, 2010
 
Aruba Will Re-Open Joran van der Sloot Murder Case
Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is already facing criminal charges for his confession to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. He many now also be facing another court case, as Aruba's chief prosecutor, Peter Blanken, works to re-open the five-year-old Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

According to Fox News, Blanken hopes to send a team to Peru to question Joran van der Sloot near the end of August. Blanken says van der Sloot told Peruvian authorities that he wants to speak with Aruban Police about the Holloway case again, and that Peruvian authorities are open to cooperating with Aruban officials in the interview process.

Media outlets speculate that van der Sloot's change of heart can probably be attributed to fear: the Dutchman is afraid of serving time in Peruvian prison, and experts say he is hoping to be extradited to the United States to stand trial for the Holloway murder. If he is convicted in Peru, however, van der Sloot will have to serve his entire sentence there—which could be up to 35 years—before going on trial in Aruba.

Unlike his immediate confession in the Flores murder, van der Sloot has given Aruban authorities multiple accounts of what happened the night of Holloway's disappearance in 2005. Many of his confessions have actually been elaborate hoaxes set up by the Dutch playboy as a way to get extra money for gambling and travel. But now van der Sloot may be ready to get serious about his confession as friends, family and attorneys have turned their backs on the suspect.

Reports from the Peruvian jail say that the young man already has several murder plots against him inside the prison. Officials also say van der Sloot is on suicide watch.

http://www.biography.com/news/aruba-will-re-open-joran-van-der-sloot-murder-case-578300

Reports from the Peruvian jail say that the young man already has several murder plots against him inside the prison.

Oh N.Rose don't tease me!  Has anyone figured out how to send gift baskets to these wonderful prisoners?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 18, 2010, 06:35:16 PM
http://www.twopeasinabucket.com/mb.asp?cmd=display&thread_id=2995916&pg=2
Quote from one poster:
A couple months ago I was in Aruba and talked to a tour guide who said that the whole Natalee Halloway case had really been seriously detrimental to the entire island. She said that lots of people lost their jobs because of the lost tourism. That Joran van der Sloot is total slime to have (evidently) killed two young girls and have negatively impacted the economy of an entire island! And on videos he seems to not care in the least - total sociopath.

Another quote on that sight: I'm Dutch and I can't think of a translation of "delicious sporter" that would not have an "ick factor". But then this family creeps me out to no end anyway.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: peachflower on June 18, 2010, 06:36:33 PM
I don't know if this has been posted before, but "the smoking gun" has some documents pertaining to Joran van der Sloot extortion case online.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0610101joran1.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 18, 2010, 06:40:19 PM
Joran's book page 123, quoting Deepak's June 15th 2005 stratement:

Deepak June 15 statement (page 119)

Joran asked me what we had to do at the police. I had told him that both of us would have to drive the route. He then said that he also was called by the police and that he had to drive that route also.

We walked around in the garden of the Racquet Club. During the walk I asked him if he had done something to the girl. Joran said he had done nothing with the girl. He then said it would be better that we left "because if the police sees us together they are going to think that we are discussing something"

On that same day we went to Joran's home after he had called us and told us he was ready at the police. We went to his house around 9 pm. There we found Joran's father and mother in the room. Joran's mother said: Hello guys, come in", I have to "tap you on your fingers" because you are having problems again". With that she meant that a week prior we had had a fight at Carlos and Charlies. I had an argument with a guy and the police had come. Joran's mother said: "the last half year Joran is having problems all the time, a few months ago he pushed a guy through a vitrine of the cinema."
[/b]

Since I might not get back in, this is a quote from zed (I have no idea who he is) at RU:

zed  PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:31 pm         

All right ... I think I need to modify my position. I just spoke with someone that has been watching and listening to things in the Netherlands, and ... it seems that Anita is very determined to have what she wants ... and that is to get Joran out of the Peru. She does appear to be in full denial, and not the least bit interested in looking at the available evidence to form an objective opinion ... at least that's what I've been told.

It was suggested that Anita may be appealing to the Queen's representatives because she's hoping for some connection with Princess Máxima, who was born in Argentina. Word is that Anita probably won't get very far with the Queen's representatives. Anita wants Joran to be in a cushy Dutch prison for a nice short rehabilitation ... and is very determined to get what she wants.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 06:52:50 PM
I don't know if this has been posted before, but "the smoking gun" has some documents pertaining to Joran van der Sloot extortion case online.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0610101joran1.html

Yes, all the docs were posted here too, they were available all over the place right after Joran murdered Stephany.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 18, 2010, 07:09:56 PM
Joran's book page 123, quoting Deepak's June 15th 2005 stratement:

Deepak June 15 statement (page 119)

Joran asked me what we had to do at the police. I had told him that both of us would have to drive the route. He then said that he also was called by the police and that he had to drive that route also.

We walked around in the garden of the Racquet Club. During the walk I asked him if he had done something to the girl. Joran said he had done nothing with the girl. He then said it would be better that we left "because if the police sees us together they are going to think that we are discussing something"

On that same day we went to Joran's home after he had called us and told us he was ready at the police. We went to his house around 9 pm. There we found Joran's father and mother in the room. Joran's mother said: Hello guys, come in", I have to "tap you on your fingers" because you are having problems again". With that she meant that a week prior we had had a fight at Carlos and Charlies. I had an argument with a guy and the police had come. Joran's mother said: "the last half year Joran is having problems all the time, a few months ago he pushed a guy through a vitrine of the cinema."
[/b]

Since I might not get back in, this is a quote from zed (I have no idea who he is) at RU:

zed  PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:31 pm         

All right ... I think I need to modify my position. I just spoke with someone that has been watching and listening to things in the Netherlands, and ... it seems that Anita is very determined to have what she wants ... and that is to get Joran out of the Peru. She does appear to be in full denial, and not the least bit interested in looking at the available evidence to form an objective opinion ... at least that's what I've been told.

It was suggested that Anita may be appealing to the Queen's representatives because she's hoping for some connection with Princess Máxima, who was born in Argentina. Word is that Anita probably won't get very far with the Queen's representatives. Anita wants Joran to be in a cushy Dutch prison for a nice short rehabilitation ... and is very determined to get what she wants.


Well I would like some thing too .
10 money trees in my yard a new and bigger pool a larger art room, someone to stain my house.
Oh yes and a  new Harley.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 07:10:19 PM
Well, luckily for the rest of the world, it's just not up to Anita to decide.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 18, 2010, 07:14:49 PM
Well, luckily for the rest of the world, it's just not up to Anita to decide.


How many bodies does it take for this woman to grab a clue? If my kid was accused for the SECOND TIME of murdering a woman, I'd tell him to take his punishment like a man.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 07:14:53 PM
Quote
He is not the monster they like the world to see. he is traumatized, depressed an has an addiction. He is not a murderer. It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."

..... and I'm the Tooth Fairy.

Anita van der Sloot's email, apparently typed out quickly, was sent to close confidant and ex-girlfriend of Joran's, Melody Granadillo.  (More like partner in crime)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Spock on June 18, 2010, 07:17:12 PM
June 18, 2010
 
Aruba Will Re-Open Joran van der Sloot Murder Case
Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is already facing criminal charges for his confession to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. He many now also be facing another court case, as Aruba's chief prosecutor, Peter Blanken, works to re-open the five-year-old Natalee Holloway disappearance case.


http://www.biography.com/news/aruba-will-re-open-joran-van-der-sloot-murder-case-578300

I will believe it when I see it.  The article says "works to reopen"  that is quite different from "will reopen".   Blanken will do nothing: he is shooting what his name implies. BLANKS.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: flutter1 on June 18, 2010, 07:18:08 PM
Joran's book page 123, quoting Deepak's June 15th 2005 stratement:
. Anita wants Joran to be in a cushy Dutch prison for a nice short rehabilitation ... and [she] is very determined to get what she wants.


I am determined to be 5 foot 8 and 21, but that ain't happening either no matter what my mother does:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: flutter1 on June 18, 2010, 07:20:18 PM
Anita wants Joran to be in a cushy Dutch prison for a nice short rehabilitation ... and [she] is very determined to get what she wants.


snipped

I am determined to be 5 foot 8 and 21, but that ain't happening either no matter what my mother does:)

Edited to correct my mangled snipping of Buckeye's post.  Sorry:(


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 07:25:08 PM
Running water in Joran's cell--well, yes, they had it turned on for the TV cameras.  I don't think they leave it on all the time, at least not for the general population.  I was very surpried once in neighbring Bolivia to learn the water was turned off in residential sections at night and so was electricity!  Whole blocks had no water or electricity after a certain hour.

Bolivia is mostly semi-arid and Peru may be as well as they are similar,  water shortage most of the time.  So that would explain why there are only showers briefly each week.

They just turn the water on and off at will but usually on a known and standard schedule.  Some families had storage tanks or used a spare bathtub to store extra water just in case.

So just because he had water for the cameras doesn't mean he has it all the time.

Also he has a new blankie as the pattern on the one on his bed is different.  It has large dots.  Appears to be made locally and is much better than he should have in my opinion.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 07:26:01 PM
Did anyone watch Shep earlier in the afternoon?  It was about the time the server had an acute MI.   Michael Griffin was on there and was 'splainin' how the USA can get Joran here to stand trial, because we have "first dibs" sotaspeak and an extradition treaty with Peru, and on and on, and Aruba has not even filed a charge yet and they would have to go through the NL to get Joran, blah, blah, blah....he also said (he believes as I do) that the "hit man" friend is a huge foe and a snitch.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 07:27:56 PM
It will be interesting to watch the power grab Anita will attempt against Peru ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 07:30:34 PM
Despite claims to the contrary, I have $5 that says somewhere on a telephone in the USA, have been many calls between Anita and Tackypenis.  My thought is that Tacky can take them for some more money, perhaps their home, if they allow Joran to come to the USA and he will defend or direct his defense.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 07:32:10 PM
In all the media, Joran is described as being Dutch, the Netherlander, etc.  I think the Netherlands must just hate that they are the ones associated with this infamous sociopath and multiple murderer.

I don't think Anita is going to get very far in her campaign to get Joran any better conditions let alone extradited anywhere.

She must be a national embarrassment.  I hope someone officially tells her to put a sock in it and soon.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: sandy leiva on June 18, 2010, 07:38:05 PM
Mon Quixote said that she could translate Spanish and some Portuguese.

Maybe she could give the Julia article a lookyloo.  Please

That would be GREAT!  SandyLeiva's good at translating too, but I haven't seen her around lately.

I really, really miss Getagrip!



which article if not already done ill give it a try. im here hanging in the rafters every day just give a shout out .sl


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 07:38:26 PM
In all the media, Joran is described as being Dutch, the Netherlander, etc.  I think the Netherlands must just hate that they are the ones associated with this infamous sociopath and multiple murderer.

I don't think Anita is going to get very far in her campaign to get Joran any better conditions let alone extradited anywhere.

She must be a national embarrassment.  I hope someone officially tells her to put a sock in it and soon.

.

Anna, I think that treaty thing might be why she continues to appeal to the NL, plus she knows they have the clout and she knows the only way he is going to get back to Aruba is to escape prison in Peru and swim.  Failing that, the Dutch will have to get him back, which is what she is aiming for and they may have already told her it would be in her best interests to pursue extradition to the States, and that is what she is trying to pull off before her visit to the sporter's mini-palace in Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 07:39:20 PM
Mon Quixote said that she could translate Spanish and some Portuguese.

Maybe she could give the Julia article a lookyloo.  Please

That would be GREAT!  SandyLeiva's good at translating too, but I haven't seen her around lately.

I really, really miss Getagrip!



which article if not already done ill give it a try. im here hanging in the rafters every day just give a shout out .sl

I have missed you and your cute little avatar so much!!! It is so good to see you here.  (((hugs)))


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 07:41:11 PM
Despite claims to the contrary, I have $5 that says somewhere on a telephone in the USA, have been many calls between Anita and Tackypenis.  My thought is that Tacky can take them for some more money, perhaps their home, if they allow Joran to come to the USA and he will defend or direct his defense.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he's advising Anita on how/what to do, etc. but it just isn't up to Anita where Joran goes, whether its US, Holland, or Anartica, lol.  Peru is going to keep him until he serves his sentence.  They don't have any incentive whatsoever to let him go anywhere and they have no extradition with the Netherlands at all.  Anita can not like it all she wants, but I just don't believe there's a thing she can do to change it.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 07:45:55 PM
Mon Quixote said that she could translate Spanish and some Portuguese.

Maybe she could give the Julia article a lookyloo.  Please

That would be GREAT!  SandyLeiva's good at translating too, but I haven't seen her around lately.

I really, really miss Getagrip!



which article if not already done ill give it a try. im here hanging in the rafters every day just give a shout out .sl

Sandy - it's this article.  It seems that Julia Renfro is involved in some way:

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3729&offId=0&offDate=2010-6

CANTIDAD DI POLIS A BAY NA MONSERAT PA UN CASO DI PELEA CU TIRAMENTO

Diaranzon merdia, a surgi un situacion hopi fastioso na Monserat, unda e prome informe cu a drenta cu pabao di veld di bala di Deportivo Nacional, tin un pelea formal, y unda tabatin uso di arma di candela.

Varios patruya policial a ser manda, mientras cu helicopter di polis tambe a lanta pa duna asistencia, den sentido di busca un auto cu 2 hoben den dje, kendenan a tira.

Informacion cu nos a haya for di mama di un di e victimanan di tiro, cu a resulta di un arma di aire, cu a herida e yiu na su pia, a duna di conoce, causa di e confrontacion aki, ta debi na un problema cu a cuminsa dialuna madruga, unda tabatin pelea entre grupo di hoben, cu anteriormente tabata sali hunto, pero awor no mas. Y awor e situacion a bay asina leu, cu tin uso di arma di candela.

Otro yiu a haya sla cu un cabo na su cacheta y a los como 5 tiro riba otro hobennan. Den huymento, a dal e auto riba otro auto cu tabata asercando.

Polis a drenta den cas pa investiga un que otro, unda a bay cu varios pieza di bromer, ya cu Fiscal a duna ordo p’esaki.

Kico tabata e causa di e confrontacion aki, ta ser bisa cu tabatin reglamento di cuenta entre 2 grupo. Aparentemente nan lo a horta hunto, y a surgi diferencia di opinion pa cual e problema y bringamento.

Dialuna madruga, a bati un di e muchanan aki, cu a dicidi di tuma revancha y esey a conduci cu diaranzon a dicidi di bay n’e cas na Monserat pa regla cuenta.

Polis mientrastanto a logra pone man riba esnan cu a tira y a detene nan pa mas investigacion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 07:49:15 PM
Tyler, You are probably right about Anita having delusions of at least getting Joran to the USA.  However, this country has not even asked for him until AFTER Peru is through with him and he has served his sentence there.  They have made it known tp Peru that there are charges in this country but not filed for any kind of extradition and I don't think they will until at least after Joran is sentenced.  Then they will only file for extradition upon completion of that sentence.

Fortunately, it's not up to Anita nor the mob lawyer.  Every parent with a child in harsh prison conditions would like their child sent to a better location.  I don't think Anita has any legal leg to stand on.

Aruba was known for harsh treatment of prisoners and still doesn't have the best record.  At least for certain prisoners.  But oh, no, they are not racists.  They just arrest black security guards for the heck of it?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 07:53:55 PM
Just out of curiosity, I would like to know which political party Anita subscribes to, as there are over 20 of them in the Netherlands and the conservatives now have the majority as of elections several weeks/months ago I believe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 07:56:36 PM
If Anita's plan is to get Joran back to the USA, she might do well to bear in mind that we have the death penalty and the State of Alabama is not one bit afraid to use it.  I believe we had an execution earlier this week in fact.

Several other states do use it even more often like Virginia, Texas and Florida so a change of venue is no guarantee.  If he were extradited and faced charges of extortion and murder, he could receive the death penalty in the US.  Most states have death penalty and multiple murder usually qualifies for it.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JE on June 18, 2010, 08:01:24 PM
What i dont understand is why the opinion of  an Anita van der sloot is even taken seriously.  If JVDS would shoot her point blank between the eyes from 2 feet away she would probably mumble "he wasn't really aiming he just has issues"  All these VDS people are beyond help.

I know we live in a society that has taken a turn for the worst. So concerned with human rights etc that we feel we must look for reason and understanding in the acts of the deranged.
Maybe it's time to go back to the basics. You killed someone, you're scum. We dont need scum so you will be disposed of. Who gives a flying f**k what Anita VDS thinks or says.
If she had anything worthwhile to say she should have done it years ago. Raising your children is your own responsability not the responsability of the media or public opinion.

It is so easy to blame your, or your siblings misfortune on outside circumstances but it is yourself that allowed these outside circumstances to take control of your life.

I understand a parent would do anything for their child, but there is a graceful way and a way that is lower than low. AVDS has chosen the low road.

Facts are facts. Joranus is Fuc%eD







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tater on June 18, 2010, 08:02:55 PM
If Anita's plan is to get Joran back to the USA, she might do well to bear in mind that we have the death penalty and the State of Alabama is not one bit afraid to use it.  I believe we had an execution earlier this week in fact.

Several other states do use it even more often like Virginia, Texas and Florida so a change of venue is no guarantee.  If he were extradited and faced charges of extortion and murder, he could receive the death penalty in the US.  Most states have death penalty and multiple murder usually qualifies for it.





But then he would sit on death row for 20 years exhausting every appeal he could at the good old tax payers expense."KEEP HIM PERU AND TURN HIM LOOSE INTO THE GENERAL POPULATION"!..:(


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: flutter1 on June 18, 2010, 08:03:57 PM
If Anita's plan is to get Joran back to the USA, she might do well to bear in mind that we have the death penalty and the State of Alabama is not one bit afraid to use it.  I believe we had an execution earlier this week in fact.


snipped

As much as I would relish Joran getting his chestnuts roasted by ol' sparky, most countries without the death penalty will refuse to extradite to the US until the US prosecutor agrees to take the d/p off the table. 

I am from TX, and yes, I am a firm death penalty proponent.  My theory is, if you don't believe in the death penalty, don't come to Texas and do something stupid.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 18, 2010, 08:06:18 PM
Joran's Ex Gives Weird Televised Interview

http://jezebel.com/5566135/jorans-ex-gives-weird-televised-interview

Melody Granadillo dated Dutch murderer Joran Van der Sloot in October, 2003, just two years before he allegedly killed American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now she's coming forward to talk about her famous ex-boyfriend.

-snip-

After all that Van der Sloot has done, I find Granadillo's "coming forward" kind of gross. The preview promises we will learn why she is talking to the press now, but I suspect we already know why. Granadillo is riding Van der Sloot's coattails to her 15 minutes of fame. Our sustained fascination with Van der Sloot has allowed someone like Granadillo to capitalize on a teenage relationship. Though she may feign disgust at what Van der Sloot has done, she remained friends with him long after he had been accused of murder, long after he had given police false information about the location of Natalee Holloway's body. Perhaps she was blinded by the memory of her first love, but if she can't see him clearly now, she never will. He may have given her skittles and hickeys, but he ended the lives of two other young women - Granadillo should try not to forget that fact when describing her "romantic" ex.

---

People are shredding her a new b-hole.


Thanks Carpe.

I can't help but think others encouraged Melody to do this.  Aline, Anita, and Jan Brennan all come to mind.  JMO

If I recall correctly when she did the interview with Rita Cosby in 2005, it was at the insistence of the lovely talented, Julia Renfro, friend and confidant of the ever-so-charming Anita (mother to our favorite murderer and handmaiden benefactor of the brilliant but deceased loser Paulus).

Tyler - have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts.  They convey my type of humour along with common sense and much truth. Thank you for all these years of sharing your thoughts with us.

OT - I do hope this is a good year for the roses. 

Tyler, I have been dying to ask about the roses.  I heard you talking about salt in the soil and didn't dare ask.



Oh, Barely, thank you for asking.  They were really beautiful this spring but they are about 200 less than I had at one time.  I had to shovel-prune about 200 because they got a virus that blew in during Katrina and we thought we lost about 50 that year, but it appears that the virus laid dormant in the soil or the roses and the following Spring many more showed signs of the disease (rose rosette disease, which is fatal and will infect other roses).  We had to shovel-prune quite a few more and bought some pretty nasty insecticides that had to be pretty toxic as we had to have prescriptions for it from a county agent.  It seems we are okay now (knocking on wood) and maybe it was all good.  We seem to have a healthier group of roses that requires less care and just enough to make a beautiful statement!  They are still pretty but they were magnificent this spring, because we had a very cold winter which meant they bloomed more.  Plants that survive a cold winter bloom better because they "set more fruit."

Thank you for asking.  I am sorry I was a long time responding but I took a long summer's nap.  Unable to sleep last night due to old age pains, I was up until early morning hours.

Thanks for answering.  It would be wonderful if you could start a thread with some pictures or post some in musings.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 08:07:03 PM
I am not going to be watching ABC 20/20. I am peeved. While I promise not to march on Disneyland and burn it down... I will not contribute one rating point to this.


Love letters.... yeeeeee blehhhhhhhh.

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/walterdunham.jpg)

It is ABC`s generalllll directiiiiion in which I primarily do my frowning.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 08:07:41 PM
Joran's extradition to the USA will only come to be possible IF and when he completes his sentence in Peru.  I don't think the US will even ask for him before that.

So assuming he survives his sentence in Peru is a big leap I think.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tater on June 18, 2010, 08:09:14 PM
I am not going to be watching ABC 20/20. I am peeved. While I promise not to march on Disneyland and burn it down... I will not contribute one rating point to this.


Love letters.... yeeeeee blehhhhhhhh.

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/walterdunham.jpg)

It is ABC`s generalllll directiiiiion in which I primarily do my frowning.

Ditto!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 18, 2010, 08:09:57 PM
Despite claims to the contrary, I have $5 that says somewhere on a telephone in the USA, have been many calls between Anita and Tackypenis.  My thought is that Tacky can take them for some more money, perhaps their home, if they allow Joran to come to the USA and he will defend or direct his defense.

Tyler, I read on here somewhere that Taco stated he was no longer on 'good terms' with the family.  I believe he stated that on a TV show, perhaps Greta.  I suspect that he was not paid what he felt his services were worth.  (no, not sure what they were worth, if anything.) Why would Anita still be in contact with him over Joran?  Taco has already stated joran is not the person that he knew 5 years ago. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 08:27:06 PM
Me and Tater are going to have a frown in! Do they cover those on the local news? lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: martini on June 18, 2010, 08:27:11 PM
Total overload...

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3508/20383315.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 08:36:06 PM
If Anita's plan is to get Joran back to the USA, she might do well to bear in mind that we have the death penalty and the State of Alabama is not one bit afraid to use it.  I believe we had an execution earlier this week in fact.


snipped

As much as I would relish Joran getting his chestnuts roasted by ol' sparky, most countries without the death penalty will refuse to extradite to the US until the US prosecutor agrees to take the d/p off the table. 

I am from TX, and yes, I am a firm death penalty proponent.  My theory is, if you don't believe in the death penalty, don't come to Texas and do something stupid.


Agree.  And the NL for sure would demand that condition.  I'm not sure about Peru. however.  Very different mind set and system.  That may be their policy as well.

And if this "passive personality" murder way of pressing charges is federal, it would not likely carry a DP anyway.  But I would like for it to be the State of Alabama, lol.

I just find it ironic that extradition to the US used to be the greatest fear for Joran because of the death penalty.  Now it's a dream of both Joran and his mother to get him here.

What a difference this has made.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 08:39:30 PM
Well, luckily for the rest of the world, it's just not up to Anita to decide.


How many bodies does it take for this woman to grab a clue? If my kid was accused for the SECOND TIME of murdering a woman, I'd tell him to take his punishment like a man.

Hey, don`t sell yourself short Boo - I am pretty sure you would do it the first time!

(I know exactly what you mean. lol)  I agree.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 08:39:45 PM
I am only showing about 60 people on this thread and the server is still crashing.  I can't get in and if I post, it puts me on overlaod every time.

Is it this bad for everybody else?  I wonder what's wrong.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 08:42:33 PM
If Anita's plan is to get Joran back to the USA, she might do well to bear in mind that we have the death penalty and the State of Alabama is not one bit afraid to use it.  I believe we had an execution earlier this week in fact.


snipped

As much as I would relish Joran getting his chestnuts roasted by ol' sparky, most countries without the death penalty will refuse to extradite to the US until the US prosecutor agrees to take the d/p off the table. 

I am from TX, and yes, I am a firm death penalty proponent.  My theory is, if you don't believe in the death penalty, don't come to Texas and do something stupid.


Agree.  And the NL for sure would demand that condition.  I'm not sure about Peru. however.  Very different mind set and system.  That may be their policy as well.

And if this "passive personality" murder way of pressing charges is federal, it would not likely carry a DP anyway.  But I would like for it to be the State of Alabama, lol.

I just find it ironic that extradition to the US used to be the greatest fear for Joran because of the death penalty.  Now it's a dream of both Joran and his mother to get him here.

What a difference this has made.



well said Anna


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 08:42:42 PM
Klaas, would it help to eliminate all the signature lines?  Or can you even do that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 08:44:31 PM
Jinkasaurus said the inmates do the cooking and in doing so, have big old knives and big ole pots boiling away.......seems she didn't feel Joran would be too "safe".

Do you suppose Anita will suggest to Peru that they have Joran teach bible classes ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 08:48:56 PM
I am only showing about 60 people on this thread and the server is still crashing.  I can't get in and if I post, it puts me on overlaod every time.

Is it this bad for everybody else?  I wonder what's wrong.



It was cantankerous all day.   It's probably pooped. lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 08:50:04 PM
I am going to make a suggestion and Klaas can poo-poo it or second it.  Until the server problems are under control, can we just respond without "quoting" or copying save the outside information that Klaas, Northern Rose, Janet, etc., bring here, i.e., my response to Anna about Joran serving time in the USA.

Anna, it might not ever happen, but I believe that is what Anita is trying to work out, a deal where Joran will come to Alabama to stand trial, and if the USA refuses to drop the death penalty, she can request another venue.  I don't want that to happen and don't think that will happen, I'm just sayin' that's probably what she and Taco had up their sweaty sleeves.

AZSunny, the reason I prefaced it with "despite claims to the contrary" or some such nonsense.  Remember, Taco is a lawyer and they would rather stand on their heads and lie than to sit straight up and tell the truth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 18, 2010, 08:50:49 PM
Jinkasaurus said the inmates do the cooking and in doing so, have big old knives and big ole pots boiling away.......seems she didn't feel Joran would be too "safe".

Do you suppose Anita will suggest to Peru that they have Joran teach bible classes ?

Lol-lightening will strike.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SuzieQ on June 18, 2010, 08:51:06 PM
Anna, I can read only one page at a time and then it takes another ten minutes until I can get the next page. At least I got caught up today.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 08:51:15 PM
Klaas, would it help to eliminate all the signature lines?  Or can you even do that?

No I don't think that will make a difference.  We just have to plug along until we get the new server.  They are looking into it as we speak. 

It's driving me nuts too. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 08:52:57 PM
I am only showing about 60 people on this thread and the server is still crashing.  I can't get in and if I post, it puts me on overlaod every time.

Is it this bad for everybody else?  I wonder what's wrong.



Everytime I get to a post that has those fireworks in the background of the avi in the sig line,
I get kicked out.  Is it just me?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 18, 2010, 08:53:39 PM
Well, luckily for the rest of the world, it's just not up to Anita to decide.


How many bodies does it take for this woman to grab a clue? If my kid was accused for the SECOND TIME of murdering a woman, I'd tell him to take his punishment like a man.

Hey, don`t sell yourself short Boo - I am pretty sure you would do it the first time!

(I know exactly what you mean. lol)  I agree.




LOL! Glad you understood what I meant. Any Mama would stand by her kid, but when you know in your heart that he is a murdering bastard, it's time to take a stand. Tell him I still love you, but you did this and you have to face the punishment. Maybe if she did this at the beginning of his life, he would be in therapy for his violence or locked up in a mental institution. She's got two more boys, what the hell is she teaching them by supporting Joran with all this evidence. Sorry, whoops it happened again, doesn't cut it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 08:53:41 PM
Anita probably wishes she had paid Tacopina's bill now.  Guess she didn't anticipate needing legal counsel so soon, lol.

But I think a lot of people who used to support Joran and Anita and the whole scam they ran are just not going to be there for them this time.

Anita will be the last to know.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 18, 2010, 08:55:21 PM
I am only showing about 60 people on this thread and the server is still crashing.  I can't get in and if I post, it puts me on overlaod every time.

Is it this bad for everybody else?  I wonder what's wrong.

SAME HERE....if this goes through, I am going to go out and buy a lottery ticket....so I am just reading when I can and not posting


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 08:57:38 PM
The server was down a few times this afternoon but I was busy with work so I didn't really track it.

I'm not having issues reading or changing pages or posting now?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 08:58:33 PM
I am surprised at the culinary arts, pottery and bakery at that prison.  It may be a front but they sure had a lot of inventory for it to be so.  Maybe they have improved their prison system.  I hope Joran won't be anywhere near anything nice or good.

Maybe those cooks with big sharp knives is where he should work.

Tyler, agree that The Clown is going to try to get some information to use for his own advantage.  That's just the way that game is played whether or not he is told to do so, he will do it anyway.  Just as whether or not the Flores ask for it, somebody will try to off Joran. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: martini on June 18, 2010, 08:58:39 PM
I am going to make a suggestion and Klaas can poo-poo it or second it.  Until the server problems are under control, can we just respond without "quoting" or copying save the outside information that Klaas, Northern Rose, Janet, etc., bring here, i.e., my response to Anna about Joran serving time in the USA.

Anna, it might not ever happen, but I believe that is what Anita is trying to work out, a deal where Joran will come to Alabama to stand trial, and if the USA refuses to drop the death penalty, she can request another venue.  I don't want that to happen and don't think that will happen, I'm just sayin' that's probably what she and Taco had up their sweaty sleeves.

AZSunny, the reason I prefaced it with "despite claims to the contrary" or some such nonsense.  Remember, Taco is a lawyer and they would rather stand on their heads and lie than to sit straight up and tell the truth.

Internet Kill Switch...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/17/internet-kill-switch-woul_n_615923.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 09:02:15 PM
I can try to take Dugga's Red Stapler again and hold it hostage if that would help get him to fix the server.  But maybe we just wore it out?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 18, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
It's probably a good idea to "copy" your post before you send it! That way you can "paste" it again after  a crash.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 09:04:42 PM
That kill switch really scares me.  I was hoping that I would not have to hear that again today and was hoping that our congress or supreme court will kill that legislation.  It is something that Hitler would do.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 09:05:39 PM
I can try to take Dugga's Red Stapler again and hold it hostage if that would help get him to fix the server.  But maybe we just wore it out?

well I was rocking along just fine, opened up AIM and immediately got kicked out lol

of course that's why I steer clear of AOL except for email, it's so proprietary


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 09:09:30 PM
I don't know how to say this exactly without being offensive but will try for it anyway.  Did anyone else hear one of the panel on NG say that she thought Joran was trying to force oral sex and that's what the fight with Stephany was about?  Not sure which one said it but it should be in the transcript. 

This is along the lines I have thought with Joran partly because of his diminutive proportions. 

And I'll just leave it at that. . . .


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 09:09:37 PM
That kill switch really scares me.  I was hoping that I would not have to hear that again today and was hoping that our congress or supreme court will kill that legislation.  It is something that Hitler would do.

I don't think he can get it past Zuckerberg lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 09:16:00 PM
I don't know how to say this exactly without being offensive but will try for it anyway.  Did anyone else hear one of the panel on NG say that she thought Joran was trying to force oral sex and that's what the fight with Stephany was about?  Not sure which one said it but it should be in the transcript. 

This is along the lines I have thought with Joran partly because of his diminutive proportions. 

And I'll just leave it at that. . . .

In the back of my mind, I always felt that was the case since she was having menses and he wanting to practice what was probably his sexual proclivity.  I often wondered (since he brought it up that he had received a Monica from Natalee), if he tried to force her to partake and a fatal fight ensued.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 18, 2010, 09:17:07 PM
I am still trying to get over Joran turning in an English assignment about love, saying he would like to take his girlfriend's clothes off.  At that age, I think we would have had the "think with your big head and not your little head" talk.  Anita should have been working on impulse control, not "that's normal for boys".

Her "Dutch" investigators, pegged him as a sociopath, 5 years ago. I am tired of her blaming his circumstances on media, Americans and the Holloway family.  I don't want to hear there was nothing she could do.  Is there not an emergency mental health detention, where a family member can request detention?  I still think she masterminded the cover-up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 18, 2010, 09:18:42 PM
I don't know how to say this exactly without being offensive but will try for it anyway.  Did anyone else hear one of the panel on NG say that she thought Joran was trying to force oral sex and that's what the fight with Stephany was about?  Not sure which one said it but it should be in the transcript. 

This is along the lines I have thought with Joran partly because of his diminutive proportions. 

And I'll just leave it at that. . . .

In the back of my mind, I always felt that was the case since she was having menses and he wanting to practice what was probably his sexual proclivity.  I often wondered (since he brought it up that he had received a Monica from Natalee), if he tried to force her to partake and a fatal fight ensued.


I agree with this.  I also think Natalee might have aspirated, in the car , while being forced.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 09:23:08 PM
The few people who have spoken out publicly to support Van der Sloot since he was charged with murder seem to be either blood relatives or attention-seekers.

Most others, however, have turned their backs on Van der Sloot, including his Peruvian lawyer, Maximo Altez, who walked off the case amid death threats and lack of compensation last week. Van der Sloot’s mother has yet to make the journey to Peru, and Joe Tacopina, the lawyer who represented him in Aruba when he faced accusations in the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway, told The Daily Beast he won’t touch the Peruvian case. “I don’t want to spend a year in Peru.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-17/friends-turn-their-back-on-van-der-sloot/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: martini on June 18, 2010, 09:25:49 PM
That kill switch really scares me.  I was hoping that I would not have to hear that again today and was hoping that our congress or supreme court will kill that legislation.  It is something that Hitler would do.
Dr. James P. Wickstrom...what the scientists in the United States are not allowed to tell you... http://doctorjamespwickstrom.blogspot.co....rbidden-to.html   



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 18, 2010, 09:26:03 PM
I don't know how to say this exactly without being offensive but will try for it anyway.  Did anyone else hear one of the panel on NG say that she thought Joran was trying to force oral sex and that's what the fight with Stephany was about?  Not sure which one said it but it should be in the transcript. 

This is along the lines I have thought with Joran partly because of his diminutive proportions. 

And I'll just leave it at that. . . .

I heard and I agree and have thought that myself, even with Natalee.  I don't know why, I just think that's his MO - it's a power thing I guess. 

But yeah, I hear you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: justinsmama on June 18, 2010, 10:05:38 PM
I am still trying to get over Joran turning in an English assignment about love, saying he would like to take his girlfriend's clothes off.  At that age, I think we would have had the "think with your big head and not your little head" talk.  Anita should have been working on impulse control, not "that's normal for boys".

Her "Dutch" investigators, pegged him as a sociopath, 5 years ago. I am tired of her blaming his circumstances on media, Americans and the Holloway family.  I don't want to hear there was nothing she could do.  Is there not an emergency mental health detention, where a family member can request detention?  I still think she masterminded the cover-up.

He was in counseling for his aggression, was aggressive toward his brothers to the point that he was moved into his own structure, and killed a dog. All long before May 30, 2005. Anita and Paulus should have had him locked away long ago.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 10:11:57 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/loser.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Red on June 18, 2010, 10:12:53 PM
For any one watching 20/20 ... they asked the question how does he get from his so-called first love to beating to death Stephany Flores.

The answer was ... HES WAS ALREADY THERE!

Even in 2003, JVDS had all the tendencies of a sociopath. This girl was just too young to fully realize it; however, looking back in retrospect, JVDS was always a possessive, lair with a dark side.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 10:17:01 PM
He already had the classic sociopathic tendencies of killing his own dog and blaming Herbie Merryweather long before Natalee disappeared.  He was already in therapy for beating up a kid at school.  Jossy said he was known for doing things to the other kids and stealing from them.

At least Melody is not denying he did it or saying he was set up as is apparently Anita's spin.  I hope Anita doesn't get any support for this line of crap at all.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 10:21:54 PM
God bless ya, Red & Anna for being able to watch it. I just can`t do it. I`d rather
sit through a thunderstorm with a cat on my lap.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 18, 2010, 10:22:32 PM
For any one watching 20/20 ... they asked the question how does he get from his so-called first love to beating to death Stephany Flores.

The answer was ... HES WAS ALREADY THERE!

Even in 2003, JVDS had all the tendencies of a sociopath. This girl was just too young to fully realize it; however, looking back in retrospect, JVDS was always a possessive, lair with a dark side.

You are so right about that Red.  His parents were in control of him and should have got this monster mental help when he killed his dog.  First sign of someone about to go over the edge.

as for 20/20 (ABC) I can't bring myself watching them and it goes back to the payoff to fund Casey Anthony's defense and all the money George and Cindy have acquired from them.  I can't help but believe Anita used Melody and got that money from ABC so she can go see her sporter and pay for his attorney.  JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 10:26:59 PM
For any one watching 20/20 ... they asked the question how does he get from his so-called first love to beating to death Stephany Flores.

The answer was ... HES WAS ALREADY THERE!

Even in 2003, JVDS had all the tendencies of a sociopath. This girl was just too young to fully realize it; however, looking back in retrospect, JVDS was always a possessive, lair with a dark side.

You are so right about that Red.  His parents were in control of him and should have got this monster mental help when he killed his dog.  First sign of someone about to go over the edge.

as for 20/20 (ABC) I can't bring myself watching them and it goes back to the payoff to fund Casey Anthony's defense and all the money George and Cindy have acquired from them.  I can't help but believe Anita used Melody and got that money from ABC so she can go see her sporter and pay for his attorney.  JMO

Actually he was getting help.  Joran was seeing a psychiatrist in 2005 before he killed Natalee.  

Remember what Nativelingo posted?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm    
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 18, 2010, 10:32:46 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 18, 2010, 10:38:02 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

Wonder if he heard from the FBI?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 10:38:40 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

so why perchance is he shaving off one month? there is a reason.........


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 10:39:44 PM
carpe - take heart, Griffith didn't let Joran off the hook at all in the 20/20 program

if anything he feels it's poetic justice Joran will suffer in a Peruvian prison now


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Puzzler on June 18, 2010, 10:41:00 PM
Ok, it's now official.
Anita has an IQ below 0.

Jo-An

Considering I am a believer in changed lives if there is a will ... I thought that maybe Anita's silence in past couple of week was an indication that she had come to place where she was no longer going to abet her son by protecting him from the consequences of his wrongdoing.

I was wrong big time.

Janet
               

That's exactly what I thought too.


I didn't think she would ever face the truth.  The spin the Joran supporters, lead by Anita, will be that Joran was a delight until Beth wrongly accused him in the disappearance of Natalee.

Being the sensitive type, this so traumatized him that it was only then that he just snapped or caved under the pressure of being wrongly accused.

Nevermind that he viciously killed his own dog and blamed Herbie Merryweather, had to be put in that shed because he kicked his own brothers so, had to go to therapy for beating a child at school as demanded by the parents of that child, threw the child through a plate glass window, showed a knife to tourist and threatened him at Dunkin Donuts, threw a choller off a bridge, pulled a knife on a girl in Carlos & Charlies and on and on. . .but you get the picture.

Greta, we did this twenty times before and nothing bad happened--Joran.

Anita will never admit what Joran truly is and has always been.  It would totally invalidate her whole permissive philosophy of life.

JMO but you know I'm right.

.

I agree.   And I add I don't think she likes Americans either.

Hi, monkeys!  I'm late to the game today...forgive me if someone else has posted these thoughts (as I've not read ahead yet)

I think Anita will never admit the truth about Joran....much like Cindy won't against Casey.
Anita/Cindy created similar offspring: Joran/Casey.

Also, again like Cindy...I think Anita has been waiting to speak out...waiting to draw the most money for her interview, putting out she doesn't have any money and waiting for the highest bidder.  Guess she finally settled on one...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Red on June 18, 2010, 10:42:44 PM
God bless ya, Red & Anna for being able to watch it. I just can`t do it. I`d rather
sit through a thunderstorm with a cat on my lap.

The sacrifices I make for ya ;)

I just had to see whether it was going to be a pro or con JVDS story. Turned out to be much different than I expected. Even back then Melody questioned his honesty.

So the sporter was a lying sneak at the age of 15 and much earlier than that i am sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Red on June 18, 2010, 10:44:58 PM
For any one watching 20/20 ... they asked the question how does he get from his so-called first love to beating to death Stephany Flores.

The answer was ... HES WAS ALREADY THERE!

Even in 2003, JVDS had all the tendencies of a sociopath. This girl was just too young to fully realize it; however, looking back in retrospect, JVDS was always a possessive, lair with a dark side.

You are so right about that Red.  His parents were in control of him and should have got this monster mental help when he killed his dog.  First sign of someone about to go over the edge.

as for 20/20 (ABC) I can't bring myself watching them and it goes back to the payoff to fund Casey Anthony's defense and all the money George and Cindy have acquired from them.  I can't help but believe Anita used Melody and got that money from ABC so she can go see her sporter and pay for his attorney.  JMO

Actually he was getting help.  Joran was seeing a psychiatrist in 2005 before he killed Natalee.  

Remember what Nativelingo posted?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm    
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)


He should have been in therapy right out of the womb. Then again, I guess he was spawed, not birthed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 10:45:06 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

so why perchance is he shaving off one month? there is a reason.........

He didn't even know Joran until after PVDS died and Joran came to Aruba.  I think that was early March?  So he met Joran some time after that.  Joran left Aruba for Columbia on May 13th.  I think John Ludwick forgot his basic math.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 18, 2010, 10:46:40 PM
 John Ludwick  Live on Saturday night @10pm I am going to be on Fox News "Geraldo At Large". Tune in.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273&ref=ts


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 10:47:14 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 10:48:22 PM
John Ludwick  Live on Saturday night @10pm I am going to be on Fox News "Geraldo At Large". Tune in.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273&ref=ts

well that will be worth tuning in for, Geraldo will tear him up


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 10:49:17 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

so why perchance is he shaving off one month? there is a reason.........

He didn't even know Joran until after PVDS died and Joran came to Aruba.  I think that was early March?  So he met Joran some time after that.  Joran left Aruba for Columbia on May 13th.  I think John Ludwick forgot his basic math.

he didn't strike me as a very bright light bulb as it is lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MuffyBee on June 18, 2010, 10:50:24 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

so why perchance is he shaving off one month? there is a reason.........

He didn't even know Joran until after PVDS died and Joran came to Aruba.  I think that was early March?  So he met Joran some time after that.  Joran left Aruba for Columbia on May 13th.  I think John Ludwick forgot his basic math.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/02/11/paulus-van-der-sloot-father-of-joran-van-der-sloot-dead-of-cardiac-arrest/  Front page article dated 2/11/10, and I believe he died the day/night before, which would make his deathday 2/10/10. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 10:52:01 PM
carpe - take heart, Griffith didn't let Joran off the hook at all in the 20/20 program

if anything he feels it's poetic justice Joran will suffer in a Peruvian prison now

good! :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 18, 2010, 10:52:12 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

so why perchance is he shaving off one month? there is a reason.........

He didn't even know Joran until after PVDS died and Joran came to Aruba.  I think that was early March?  So he met Joran some time after that.  Joran left Aruba for Columbia on May 13th.  I think John Ludwick forgot his basic math.

Correct.....Joran and John became FB friends the week of March 8-14 IIRC....Joran leave for Peru May 13th.
Only 2 months according to my math. He doesn't know dick about Joran.
NG asked John what Joran did that made him such a great friend.....John just stuttered some lame words, he was loyal, fun, yada,yada.....he really thinks he's famous!  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 18, 2010, 10:52:47 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

I remember that, too, Magnolia.  He was almost fired over that and letting somebody taker photos of Joran in KIA.  Maduro might be his last name?


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 18, 2010, 10:53:59 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.


Yeah someone who told the truth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Puzzler on June 18, 2010, 10:54:20 PM
Yes, "so much bad luck sometimes" goes on that list of memorable quotes.

No body, no case
20 times before
watch your drink (to Dave, by Dompig, I think)
your own father
if they see that *hit
something bad happened
why you lie to mama?
so much bad luck sometimes

Ms. Marple...quite an impressive list of "memorable quotes" you have!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 10:55:27 PM
Have you seen these men? The one with the overbite is particularly nasty!

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepakandsatishkalpoe.jpg)

Email me if you have info. Thanks for your support.

Let`s keep our streets safe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 18, 2010, 10:56:09 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

Yep, said Joran well known to have terrible temper. Tried beating up another inmate. But he also said Joran's bad temper has been since childhood.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: snoopy on June 18, 2010, 10:56:29 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

so why perchance is he shaving off one month? there is a reason.........

He didn't even know Joran until after PVDS died and Joran came to Aruba.  I think that was early March?  So he met Joran some time after that.  Joran left Aruba for Columbia on May 13th.  I think John Ludwick forgot his basic math.

he didn't strike me as a very bright light bulb as it is lol

He ain't even bright enough to be a 7 watt nite-lite.  Bless his heart and all that.

come across


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 10:56:48 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

I remember that, too, Magnolia.  He was almost fired over that and letting somebody taker photos of Joran in KIA.  Maduro might be his last name?


.

I think that is right, Anna.  He said that Joran had always controlled the whole VDS family.

I think NBC was fined everytime they showed the video.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 10:57:02 PM
Muffy - yes but Joran was in Thailand at the time.  PVDS body was sent to the NL to be buried.  Joran was at the burial in the NL.  Then a bit later Joran came to Aruba allegedly for the memorial service (personally I don't think there was one in Aruba)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 18, 2010, 10:58:14 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

I remember that, too, Magnolia.  He was almost fired over that and letting somebody taker photos of Joran in KIA.  Maduro might be his last name?

.

FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MuffyBee on June 18, 2010, 11:11:53 PM
Muffy - yes but Joran was in Thailand at the time.  PVDS body was sent to the NL to be buried.  Joran was at the burial in the NL.  Then a bit later Joran came to Aruba allegedly for the memorial service (personally I don't think there was one in Aruba)

Thanks Klaas. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 11:12:15 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

I remember that, too, Magnolia.  He was almost fired over that and letting somebody taker photos of Joran in KIA.  Maduro might be his last name?


.

I remember it as well.  He was a very nice older gentleman, and I think he was retired.  He was the one there was so much controversy about the girl from MSNBC wanting to get into the prison to see, and her wearing a tight sweater to win favor with the security personnel, and the nastysloots sued MSNBC about this as it showed the jerkoff horan in a bad light.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 11:12:33 PM
Remember that Prison Warden who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots
since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

I remember that, too, Magnolia.  He was almost fired over that and letting somebody taker photos of Joran in KIA.  Maduro might be his last name?

.

FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN

have to wonder where he is today?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 18, 2010, 11:12:42 PM
corrected to say, "forcefully retired."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 18, 2010, 11:19:07 PM
Page 126: From Joran`s pathetic book -


We stayed there till around 10 pm. When Satish and me went to the car
Joran and Freddy walked with us. We stayed and talked briefly. In this
conversation we had spoken again about the sport shoes of Joran, how we
would arrange that. Freddy had already proposed to buy Joran new ones.
He had asked Joran if he had arranged that. Joran then said: Imagine
someone has murdered and buried her, then they will never find her and
they will always be after us. After that we went home.


----

Hey, that was a great plan wasn`t it? It is working out so well for them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 11:19:07 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9085888/

2005

(snipped)

(on camera):  Is it strange to see him in this environment?  FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN:  Yes, strange in a way, in another way, not, because of his temperament.  When he doesn’t get his way, he gets very angry.  I know that before, that already he was a very angry person.  KOSINSKI:  And did you see some of his temper here in prison?  MADURO:  In beginning, yes, with the policemen.  But then, afterwards, the policemen really rough him up. 

(snipped)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 18, 2010, 11:25:28 PM
Looks like Freddy Maduro is still around:

http://www.diario.aw/2010/02/concierto-dominical-diadomingo-awor/

(snipped)

E repertorio di Frank Croes y su tipico pegasaya sigur lo pone amantenan di bon musica los e pianan y pasa un rato inolvidabel. Integrantenan, Frank Croes, Marc Maduro, Dufi Croes, Frank Falconi jr., Ruben Kock, Danilo Vrolijk, Bert Thiel, Chen Geerman, Freddy Maduro ta invita un y tur pa tey presente trempan pa asina disfruta di e concierto dominical di Diadomingo awo..

E concierto ta cuminsa 11’or di mainta en punto y lo sigui te 13.00 or.

(snipped)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 11:26:36 PM
From The Los Angles Times

Aruba blocks NBC interview
QUICK TAKESAugust 26, 2005|Scott Collins

NBC News' scoop in the Natalee Holloway case has gotten the network into a legal scuffle in Aruba.

NBC's Michelle Kosinski scored an exclusive jailhouse interview with Joran van der Sloot, suspected of involvement in the May 30 disappearance of Alabama teenager Holloway. Van der Sloot was detained June 9 but has not been charged.

The interview angered Van der Sloot's attorneys, who went to court to block the telecast late Wednesday. An Aruban judge later ordered NBC not to air it.

Thursday's "Today" showed videotape of Kosinski touring the prison grounds with warden Fred Maduro, but no tape of Van der Sloot was shown. In his interview with Kosinski, Maduro said that the suspect has "incorporated himself into the prison" but described him as a "very angry" person.

"We respected the court's order and therefore have not broadcast the videotape of Joran van der Sloot from inside the prison at this time," an NBC spokeswoman said. "However, as the judge affirmed last night, we did, in fact, have permission to be inside the prison.... While we respect the court's decision, we are considering our next course of legal action."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 18, 2010, 11:28:54 PM
Have you seen these men? The one with the overbite is particularly nasty!

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepakandsatishkalpoe.jpg)

Email me if you have info. Thanks for your support.

Let`s keep our streets safe.

HAHAHA

Thank you Carpe...I needed that.

pb


Hi Monkeys (waving)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 11:29:43 PM
Looks like Freddy Maduro is still around:

http://www.diario.aw/2010/02/concierto-dominical-diadomingo-awor/

(snipped)

E repertorio di Frank Croes y su tipico pegasaya sigur lo pone amantenan di bon musica los e pianan y pasa un rato inolvidabel. Integrantenan, Frank Croes, Marc Maduro, Dufi Croes, Frank Falconi jr., Ruben Kock, Danilo Vrolijk, Bert Thiel, Chen Geerman, Freddy Maduro ta invita un y tur pa tey presente trempan pa asina disfruta di e concierto dominical di Diadomingo awo..

E concierto ta cuminsa 11’or di mainta en punto y lo sigui te 13.00 or.

(snipped)

glad to see they didn't toss him into the ocean too


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 18, 2010, 11:33:34 PM
Have you seen these men? The one with the overbite is particularly nasty!

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepakandsatishkalpoe.jpg)

Email me if you have info. Thanks for your support.

Let`s keep our streets safe.


Remind me again....which one is the smart one, who wants to be a doctor? :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 11:40:02 PM
Have you seen these men? The one with the overbite is particularly nasty!

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepakandsatishkalpoe.jpg)

Email me if you have info. Thanks for your support.

Let`s keep our streets safe.


Remind me again....which one is the smart one, who wants to be a doctor? :-)

ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 18, 2010, 11:42:41 PM
Hi Monkeys!

I can't get the publication tomorrow with Anita's interview, so I'm hoping and sure that some kind monkey will post it here! <monkey smile>

I tried several times to stay on here today but kept getting kicked out.... Klaas, here....... I'm sure you could use this:
       (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/valium-kitty3.gif)

I wonder what Anita would name as Joran's addiction? Unless she's deaf, blind and dumb, she'd have to say he's addicted to lying, right? I mean she's seen and heard him give the account of being with Natalee when she died. So much for her surety that her sporter had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance! I wonder how she accounts for Stephany's blood all over Sporter's shirt and the video of no one coming or going from that hotel room after Stephany walked in alive until she was discovered brutally murdered?

She can talk to the Queen of anywhere she wants, but Sporter is going to be held accountable for this one. If she weren't so stupid, blind, and indulgent, maybe Joran wouldn't be a murderer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:45:19 PM
Joran's mother: My son is a murderer and is depressed

Anita van der Sloot, mother of Dutchman confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, believes that soon proved the innocence of his son and stresses that "Joran is a murderer." He says he has set a trap to imprison him.

The subject's mother spoke publicly for "ABC News" since her son was arrested in Chile and held in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in the death of the young Peruvian.

"I do not give any media interviews American because I do not trust them. Will stay strong and pray for Joran. He is traumatized, depressed and distressed. He is not a murderer. This sucks and looks like a big trap set up for him," he said.

 The letter from the woman sent the email Sloot apparently typed quickly, was sent to stop the confidences of the ex-girlfriend of Joran, Melody Granadillo.

Granadillo, 23, was a girlfriend of Joran when both were 17 years and in the same media interview was his affair with the subject saying that the Netherlands was "unbelievable" and "romantic."

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/18/06/2010/madre-de-joran-mi-hijo-no-es-un-asesino-y-esta-deprimido


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 18, 2010, 11:51:15 PM
CBB that animation is priceless ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!

I may need to borrow it, I have a go-live with 11 countries in about ten days!

Yes he is surely addicted to lying !!!!!!!

Off to get some rest, have to mow my grass and then take my mother to run her errands early tomorrow. Rest well everyone......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:51:40 PM
"My son is sick in his head" Oranjestad (Aruba) - Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, break after years of silence. According to Anita her son was severely mentally entangled.

The mother of Joran van der Sloot tells her story for the first time exclusively to The Associated Press. Anita agreed to a meeting with reporters, because the picture of Joran "as monster" is not the whole story. She does not rule out that he has slain Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flight she had contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt "monitored and reviewed.

According to Joran's wrong after the death of his father in severe psychological distress. She said he blamed himself for his early death.

In an interview with The Associated Press says they continue that Joran went to Peru to escape to a recording on a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.

"He agreed with that shot. Two days before he would leave for the Netherlands, he left the house. "All they found was a note that they are not to worry.

The director of the Castro Castro prison yesterday Joran tried to persuade himself to be interviewed by CNN about the excellent conditions in his cell and his good treatment.

Joran then refused to cooperate, he was taken from his cell and were journalists access to his residence. They were pictures and film shooting. He pointed out that Joran in his cell a real bed with a mattress, running water, a towel and a Bible to read. His toilet is a hole in the ground.

Van der Sloot gets the privilege of being the high-security cell, near the office of the Director. This is a precautionary measure so that it can not be affected. Monday he was brought before the court.

The exclusive interview with Anita van der Sloot read today in The Telegraph.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6991345/___Mijn_zoon_is_ziek_in_zijn_hoofd___.html?cid=rss


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:58:11 PM
according to the Telegraf article the Ditch Witch was in contact with her spawn shortly before he murdered Stephany and while he was on the


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 12:02:40 AM
from twitter:

Uh, so Joran Van Der Sloot's younger brother goes to my college...and the school decided to feature him on our website


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:02:44 AM
"My son is sick in his head" Oranjestad (Aruba) - Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, break after years of silence. According to Anita her son was severely mentally entangled.

The mother of Joran van der Sloot tells her story for the first time exclusively to The Associated Press. Anita agreed to a meeting with reporters, because the picture of Joran "as monster" is not the whole story. She does not rule out that he has slain Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flight she had contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt "monitored and reviewed.

According to Joran's wrong after the death of his father in severe psychological distress. She said he blamed himself for his early death.

In an interview with The Associated Press says they continue that Joran went to Peru to escape to a recording on a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.

"He agreed with that shot.
Two days before he would leave for the Netherlands, he left the house. "All they found was a note that they are not to worry.

The director of the Castro Castro prison yesterday Joran tried to persuade himself to be interviewed by CNN about the excellent conditions in his cell and his good treatment.

Joran then refused to cooperate, he was taken from his cell and were journalists access to his residence. They were pictures and film shooting. He pointed out that Joran in his cell a real bed with a mattress, running water, a towel and a Bible to read. His toilet is a hole in the ground.

Van der Sloot gets the privilege of being the high-security cell, near the office of the Director. This is a precautionary measure so that it can not be affected. Monday he was brought before the court.

The exclusive interview with Anita van der Sloot read today in The Telegraph.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6991345/___Mijn_zoon_is_ziek_in_zijn_hoofd___.html?cid=rss

What does the section I put in blue, mean???? Is she saying he was about to go in a psychiatric clinic??? He was distressed because Aruban authorities had just tipped him off that he had been set up by the FBI, and he ran to keep from getting nabbed and to keep from listening to Anita biotch at him for being so stupid and opening his fat mouth again!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:05:36 AM
according to the Telegraf article the Ditch Witch was in contact with her spawn shortly before he murdered Stephany and while he was on the

plane. <wink>

I'll bet you anything they were discussing the extortion set up. That's why he left, on advise of the Aruban Authorities that tipped him off!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 12:08:01 AM
according to the Telegraf article the Ditch Witch was in contact with her spawn shortly before he murdered Stephany and while he was on the

We know for a fact she was in touch via Facebook.  Renfro was in touch with him also.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 12:09:25 AM
according to the Telegraf article the Ditch Witch was in contact with her spawn shortly before he murdered Stephany and while he was on the

plane. <wink>

I'll bet you anything they were discussing the extortion set up. That's why he left, on advise of the Aruban Authorities that tipped him off!

sorry, missing word was "run' Vanna can I buy a vowel please?  lol  He was probably asking her to find the book daddy wrote on how to hide evidence and the body .  He forgot the advice of  - don't leave home without it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 12:10:11 AM
from twitter:

Uh, so Joran Van Der Sloot's younger brother goes to my college...and the school decided to feature him on our website

He's been going there for 3 years now I think?  Yes, he is a featured international student.  But this hasn't happened recently, it's been there for a long time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 12:13:04 AM
"My son is sick in his head" Oranjestad (Aruba) - Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, break after years of silence. According to Anita her son was severely mentally entangled.

The mother of Joran van der Sloot tells her story for the first time exclusively to The Associated Press. Anita agreed to a meeting with reporters, because the picture of Joran "as monster" is not the whole story. She does not rule out that he has slain Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flight she had contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt "monitored and reviewed.

According to Joran's wrong after the death of his father in severe psychological distress. She said he blamed himself for his early death.

In an interview with The Associated Press says they continue that Joran went to Peru to escape to a recording on a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.

"He agreed with that shot.
Two days before he would leave for the Netherlands, he left the house. "All they found was a note that they are not to worry.

The director of the Castro Castro prison yesterday Joran tried to persuade himself to be interviewed by CNN about the excellent conditions in his cell and his good treatment.

Joran then refused to cooperate, he was taken from his cell and were journalists access to his residence. They were pictures and film shooting. He pointed out that Joran in his cell a real bed with a mattress, running water, a towel and a Bible to read. His toilet is a hole in the ground.

Van der Sloot gets the privilege of being the high-security cell, near the office of the Director. This is a precautionary measure so that it can not be affected. Monday he was brought before the court.

The exclusive interview with Anita van der Sloot read today in The Telegraph.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6991345/___Mijn_zoon_is_ziek_in_zijn_hoofd___.html?cid=rss

What does the section I put in blue, mean???? Is she saying he was about to go in a psychiatric clinic??? He was distressed because Aruban authorities had just tipped him off that he had been set up by the FBI, and he ran to keep from getting nabbed and to keep from listening to Anita biotch at him for being so stupid and opening his fat mouth again!

I do believe you have it word-for-word.  Good girl !!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 12:15:15 AM
The mother of Joran van der Sloot said his son "is not a monster" (with video)

Anita van der Sloot says that the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores is traumatized, depressed and addicted

Anita van der Sloot, the mother of Joran van der Sloot, the confessed murderer of the young Stephany Flores, defended the innocence of his son and said "not the monster who would like to see (the media)."

The Dutchman's mother who is also linked to the murder of Natalee Holloway American said in a letter to ABC that her son "is traumatized, depressed and have an addiction."

He indicated that Joran van der Sloot "is not a murderer" and that the situation in which your child is involved "sucks" because it is "a big trap against him."

Joran van der Sloot (23) confessed to authorities that Stephany Flores killed in Miraflores Tac hotel after the 21 year old discovered that he had been linked to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway Young five years ago.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/497258/mama-joran-van-der-sloot-asegura-que-su-hijono-monstruo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:15:34 AM
Hi Blue Moon!!!  Thanks!! :D


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 12:20:43 AM
All the press in Peru has the Ditch Witch's "not a murderer, not a monster" story .  I am thinking that Mr Flores may have something different to say about her sporter.  I really hope she decides to visit Peru and see what the people there think as well.  I don't think the Queen of the Netherlands can help her nor do I think she would want to. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 12:22:26 AM
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/491696/2010/06/18/Moeder-van-Joran-Alles-wijst-op-een-complot.dhtml

Mother of Joran: All signs point to a conspiracy

ARUBA - Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, break after years of silence. She wants a few things about her son nuance. It is the first time since 2008, she gave an interview to Pauw en Witteman that Joran mother speaks.
Her 22-year old son is suspected of the murder of the Peruvian Stephany Flores and currently sits on the infamous Castro Castro prison pending trial.

The U.S. television network ABC sends an exclusive interview with a former love of Joran. The now 23-year-old Melody Granadillo Joran describes it as' sweet''and''romantic. Also kept a diary about her time with Joran.

E-mail intercepted
ABC not only provides a glimpse into the diary of Melody, who could play an e-mail from Anita van der Sloot on the girl to intercept. It says Joran other parent that they do not believe that Joran is a murderer.

She also asked Melody for her son to pray. "He's not a monster as everybody thinks. He is traumatized, depressed and addicted, but not a murderer.''

Always believed in innocence
The parents of Joran van der Sloot have always believed in the innocence of their son in the case about Natalee Holloway. The American disappeared in 2005 in Aruba and Joran is still suspect.

Five years ago, let his parents know 200 percent believing in his innocence. "I'm sure Joran Natalee has done nothing," said his mother was.

Although her son's death Stephany Flores now has made a confession, Ms. van der Sloot convinced that, everything points to a plot to take her son.''(DvdH)
18/06/1910 8:58 p.m.


I swear Jenna at RU is paid to think up conspiracies for the Sloots (insert rolling eyes)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:23:12 AM
The mother of Joran van der Sloot said his son "is not a monster" (with video)

Anita van der Sloot says that the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores is traumatized, depressed and addicted

Anita van der Sloot, the mother of Joran van der Sloot, the confessed murderer of the young Stephany Flores, defended the innocence of his son and said "not the monster who would like to see (the media)."

The Dutchman's mother who is also linked to the murder of Natalee Holloway American said in a letter to ABC that her son "is traumatized, depressed and have an addiction."

He indicated that Joran van der Sloot "is not a murderer" and that the situation in which your child is involved "sucks" because it is "a big trap against him."

Joran van der Sloot (23) confessed to authorities that Stephany Flores killed in Miraflores Tac hotel after the 21 year old discovered that he had been linked to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway Young five years ago.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/497258/mama-joran-van-der-sloot-asegura-que-su-hijono-monstruo

Give Me A Break, Anita!!! He's traumatized??? OK, by what? The sight of Stephany beaten to death?? Geez.......... that's like the guy who murdered his parents and then threw himself on the mercy of the court because he's an oprhan!!

Peru laid a big trap for Joran?? Oh yeah, sure! Peru took applications for the perfect girl to lure Joran Van der Sloot to his hotel room so she could beat her own self to death while Joran watched helpless.

Anita is nucking futs!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:23:25 AM
My son is a dick head" Oranjestad (Aruba) - Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, screams after years of capitalizing on his crimes.  According to Anita her son was severely mentally entangled, just like she is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 12:24:16 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 12:24:47 AM
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/8ballJoran.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 19, 2010, 12:26:58 AM
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.destentor.nl%2Falgemeen%2Fbinnenland%2F6860320%2FMoeder-Joran-vluchtte-voor-opname-in-kliniek.ece

Mother: Joran fled for inclusion in clinic
 | 06:12 Saturday, June 19, 2010 | 6:12

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Joran van der Sloot has gone to Peru to escape inclusion in a psychiatric clinic.
 
Joran van der Sloot mother Anita told in an interview with The Associated Press on Saturday that her son had accepted the shooting, but fled at the last minute for his treatment.
 
 "I had an appointment with a Dutch clinic''said Van der Sloot in the newspaper.
 
Two days prior to scheduled departure, however, she found a note on the kitchen table saying that Joran had gone to Peru for a poker tournament.
 

 Anita van der Sloot (53) says in the interview continues to believe that her son is not responsible for the death of Natalee Holloway.

 
She loves it, however, possible that his Peruvian Stephany Flores has killed.
 
Joran suffers according to his mother with major psychological problems.
 
'' ,, Joran is sick in his head, but he wanted no help.''




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:29:08 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 12:31:22 AM
LOL! Klaas - it really does work.



(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/anita.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:31:28 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 12:31:30 AM
I may be loosing my mind but the article Lifesong posted says that sporter fled Peru after murdering Stephany to go check himself into a clinic?

Sorry it's beem a long day for me, the county accidentally cut our phone and cable lines digging out trees and I am on my neighbours wireless until the phone company decides to come out around Tuesday.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:32:23 AM
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/491696/2010/06/18/Moeder-van-Joran-Alles-wijst-op-een-complot.dhtml

Mother of Joran: All signs point to a conspiracy

ARUBA - Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, break after years of silence. She wants a few things about her son nuance. It is the first time since 2008, she gave an interview to Pauw en Witteman that Joran mother speaks.
Her 22-year old son is suspected of the murder of the Peruvian Stephany Flores and currently sits on the infamous Castro Castro prison pending trial.

The U.S. television network ABC sends an exclusive interview with a former love of Joran. The now 23-year-old Melody Granadillo Joran describes it as' sweet''and''romantic. Also kept a diary about her time with Joran.

E-mail intercepted
ABC not only provides a glimpse into the diary of Melody, who could play an e-mail from Anita van der Sloot on the girl to intercept. It says Joran other parent that they do not believe that Joran is a murderer.

She also asked Melody for her son to pray. "He's not a monster as everybody thinks. He is traumatized, depressed and addicted, but not a murderer.''

Always believed in innocence
The parents of Joran van der Sloot have always believed in the innocence of their son in the case about Natalee Holloway. The American disappeared in 2005 in Aruba and Joran is still suspect.

Five years ago, let his parents know 200 percent believing in his innocence. "I'm sure Joran Natalee has done nothing," said his mother was.

Although her son's death Stephany Flores now has made a confession, Ms. van der Sloot convinced that, everything points to a plot to take her son.''(DvdH)
18/06/1910 8:58 p.m.


I swear Jenna at RU is paid to think up conspiracies for the Sloots (insert rolling eyes)


Well, Jenna deserves combat pay for a conspiracy that would explain away Stephany's murder! She's going to have to stand on her head and whistle Dixie to contortion one for this one!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 12:35:57 AM
Knowing they have Joran 6 ways to Sunday, Anita goes for the insanity defense.

Sorry, Anita, he fled and died his hair orange like yours to evade.  Crazy people don't know right from wrong and so don't know to do that.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 19, 2010, 12:37:52 AM
I may be loosing my mind but the article Lifesong posted says that sporter fled Peru after murdering Stephany to go check himself into a clinic?

Sorry it's beem a long day for me, the county accidentally cut our phone and cable lines digging out trees and I am on my neighbours wireless until the phone company decides to come out around Tuesday.

I think it's saying that he fled to Peru to escape going to the clinic.  I think its about the same info as the other articles, it caught my eye because it states clearly that she still believes he's innocent of harming Natalee though she acknowledges that he murdered Stephany.

She's just going to continue this de-valuation of Nat's life until God smites her just like He smote Paulus.  Couldn't happen fast enough for me at this point.

Even when I know ahead of time she's going to pizz me off, it still gets to me.  Ugh!!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 12:38:11 AM
I wonder if we will ever see the Aruban crowd show a little class and so much as extend their condolences to the Flores for what their monster did.

Ever notice how crudely they never do these simple courtesies that others always do?  Barely civilized.  Rude, crude and tatooed.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: billb's daughter on June 19, 2010, 12:38:32 AM
Anita is very determined to have what she wants ... and that is to get Joran out of the Peru.


Still catching up.....but have to say....
anita can have wants she wants....if it is in a body bag.......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Puzzler on June 19, 2010, 12:41:23 AM
Klaas, would it help to eliminate all the signature lines?  Or can you even do that?

No I don't think that will make a difference.  We just have to plug along until we get the new server.  They are looking into it as we speak. 

It's driving me nuts too. 

Klaas, Thanks for the info...good to know we're getting a new server.

Look at it this way...at least we'll have a new server in before KC goes on trial.  The forum will be swamped then, too, and we'll want to move along smoothly with the happenings during daily trial!



 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:43:28 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 12:44:46 AM
I may be loosing my mind but the article Lifesong posted says that sporter fled Peru after murdering Stephany to go check himself into a clinic?

Sorry it's beem a long day for me, the county accidentally cut our phone and cable lines digging out trees and I am on my neighbours wireless until the phone company decides to come out around Tuesday.

I think it's saying that he fled to Peru to escape going to the clinic.  I think its about the same info as the other articles, it caught my eye because it states clearly that she still believes he's innocent of harming Natalee though she acknowledges that he murdered Stephany.

She's just going to continue this de-valuation of Nat's life until God smites her just like He smote Paulus.  Couldn't happen fast enough for me at this point.

Even when I know ahead of time she's going to pizz me off, it still gets to me.  Ugh!!



Thank you Lifesong.  Sporter ran as he did not want to go to the clinic so to stay under the radar he kills another girl from a very prominent family , in a country that would not cover up his mess this time, then gets messed up with his alibi because of the video camera in the hotel so runs to Chile.  Yup he stayed pretty much under the radar running from the clinic.  He would be more successful playing craps and rolling  snake eyes and then keeping one to replace Mr wiggles. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:45:20 AM
OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennesse.

ROFLOL!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 12:46:35 AM
Anita is very determined to have what she wants ... and that is to get Joran out of the Peru.


Still catching up.....but have to say....
anita can have wants she wants....if it is in a body bag.......

It`s the way he is used to traveling. Corpse in a carry on; laptop on the back.

Only this time - he gets to be the stuffee! I think Anita would agree, it is smart

for good boys to get another viewpoint.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 12:52:26 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/Van-Der-Sloot-4a.jpg)


Smoke break! Killing people is hard work.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 12:54:38 AM
Anita seems to think the lives of these girls Joran has taken are of no consequence whatsoever and the only concern she seems to have is for his addiction to gambling.

Yeah, let's get him treatment for that addiction.  Nevermind the fact he is a stone-cold murdering monster.

Anita has not had to deal with the death of any of her children as have the victims of Joran and their families.  But God can change all of that in the twinkling of an eye.

This woman is as crazy as she claims Joran is. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 12:55:55 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/Van-Der-Sloot-4a.jpg)


Smoke break! Killing people is hard work.

Or "after glow" ciggie. I think the sick SOB may get his kicks on murder!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 01:00:08 AM
CBB,

Ah, the things we have learned about during the last five years looking for Natalee from the sleaze who took her!  We have waded through the backpages of ever possible place we thought could hold evidence for what those thugs did with her and then some.  Found so many things we never knew existed and that shocked us to the core.

But we have never flinched or turned away and now even though we don't have justice for Natalee as yet, our step is a little lighter and our outlook a little brighter because we know the main one responsible is no longer on "free feet" to harm another.  Stephany is our angel who is helping bring him to justice.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 01:01:36 AM
OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennesse.

ROFLOL!!!

I had to google.  I do think Joran was using them on himself, seriously.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: IBE on June 19, 2010, 01:01:37 AM
CBB said:
"OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee."

CBB.. a new import business?? ((smiles))


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 19, 2010, 01:01:51 AM
Anita seems to think the lives of these girls Joran has taken are of no consequence whatsoever and the only concern she seems to have is for his addiction to gambling.

Yeah, let's get him treatment for that addiction.  Nevermind the fact he is a stone-cold murdering monster.

Anita has not had to deal with the death of any of her children as have the victims of Joran and their families.  But God can change all of that in the twinkling of an eye.

This woman is as crazy as she claims Joran is. 

I agree with whoever stated earlier that the whole clinic story is an after-the-fact save attempt to avoid the extortion and wire fraud charges.  The meeting with JQK was on the 10th, Joran left Aruba on the 13th, arrived in Peru on the 14th.  Anita had the clinic appt. set up for the 15th evidently.  I suspect that appt. (if there even was one) was made on the 10th or 11th.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 01:08:02 AM
O/T Shop Note:

I'm off to get rid of my signature line gif. Everyone on this thread knows that I would love nothing more than to make Holiday or seasonal avatars for you all. I've had a really hard time staying on the forum today, as many of you have, and I don't want to run any risk of contributing to the problem for posters. When the new server is in, I'll have a thread in the Lounge for anyone who wants an avatar, and for the Natalee posters who have grown accustomed to delivery here, I'll do that as well.

OK, end of "shop talk". Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 01:09:01 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

Yes Tennessee does.  I saw them two weeks ago at Hillbilly Village in Pigeon Forge. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 01:09:48 AM
Can someone tell me in 300 words or less what the deal was with Renfro, the black dress, the fire arms, the cars, etc., and if she had anything to do with it, or her son, or just what that was all about?  Are we still on good terms with Jossy, or are we mad at him?  Inquiring minds, et al.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 01:10:22 AM
CBB, just to be clear, only a girl from Kentucky could say that about Tennessee.  Both states are equals.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 01:10:39 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

Yes Tennessee does.  I saw them two weeks ago at Hillbilly Village in Pigeon Forge. 

More importantly, did you buy some and if so, did you know what they were for when you bought them?  LOLOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Puzzler on June 19, 2010, 01:10:46 AM
Anita seems to think the lives of these girls Joran has taken are of no consequence whatsoever and the only concern she seems to have is for his addiction to gambling.

Yeah, let's get him treatment for that addiction.  Nevermind the fact he is a stone-cold murdering monster.

Anita has not had to deal with the death of any of her children as have the victims of Joran and their families.  But God can change all of that in the twinkling of an eye.

This woman is as crazy as she claims Joran is. 

Yep!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 01:11:26 AM
Lifesong, I agree.  Anita knew Joran was caught in the extortion sting so she got him an appointment in the NL and the story was to be that his gambling addiction caused him to extort money from his victim's family.

She seems much more concerned about Joran's "addiction" than the fact he has killed two living breathing human beings!

And she's about 20 years too late with the help for him, IMO.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 01:11:29 AM
Can someone tell me in 300 words or less what the deal was with Renfro, the black dress, the fire arms, the cars, etc., and if she had anything to do with it, or her son, or just what that was all about?  Are we still on good terms with Jossy, or are we mad at him?  Inquiring minds, et al.

Sandy Levi was suppose to take a look at it and get back with us on it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 01:12:31 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

Yes Tennessee does.  I saw them two weeks ago at Hillbilly Village in Pigeon Forge. 

More importantly, did you buy some and if so, did you know what they were for when you bought them?  LOLOL

OMG, that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!   No, I thought they were "clackers".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 01:13:54 AM
"In these prisons, you can get drugs delivered any time of the day or night to your cell," said Michael Griffith, International League Defense Council. "So people come in and out and if someone has been given money as part of a contract to get rid of Joran van der Sloot, they're gonna get him."

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0610/747495.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 01:14:45 AM
Can someone tell me in 300 words or less what the deal was with Renfro, the black dress, the fire arms, the cars, etc., and if she had anything to do with it, or her son, or just what that was all about?  Are we still on good terms with Jossy, or are we mad at him?  Inquiring minds, et al.

Sandy Levi was suppose to take a look at it and get back with us on it.

thanks, BM.  When I used to come here in 2005, I thought all that crime in Aruba was secondary to Natalee's disappearance, and then I realized it's like a TV program, just another day in the life of crime, something happening everyday, and they say they have low crime rate.  The reason for that is they do not recognize it.  For them, it's just everyday life on Paradise Place.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 01:15:31 AM
Lifesong, I agree.  Anita knew Joran was caught in the extortion sting so she got him an appointment in the NL and the story was to be that his gambling addiction caused him to extort money from his victim's family.

She seems much more concerned about Joran's "addiction" than the fact he has killed two living breathing human beings!

And she's about 20 years too late with the help for him, IMO.



I have to agree with you.  Good ole Anita is always one step ahead with a "story" to save her sporter.   I believe she played a bigger part in the coverup than her wussie hubby did.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 01:17:34 AM
Do they take PayPal? :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 01:18:10 AM
I have to call it a night.  Early rise tomorrow--need to go to the Mennonites to get green beans, corn, tomatoes, sourdough bread. I love it.  Good night Monkeys.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 19, 2010, 01:20:50 AM
Lifesong, I agree.  Anita knew Joran was caught in the extortion sting so she got him an appointment in the NL and the story was to be that his gambling addiction caused him to extort money from his victim's family.

She seems much more concerned about Joran's "addiction" than the fact he has killed two living breathing human beings!

And she's about 20 years too late with the help for him, IMO.




I AGREE!!

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 01:21:47 AM
Who allowed Joran to lie, drink and gamble?  His parents.  So if he now has an addiction, it's their fault.

Anita, do you believe your delicious sporter 200% now when he tells how he held his shirt over the face of his unconscious victim until she stopped breathing?

Those of us who have been following this for so long just resent the hell out of this woman after all this time coming along with these lame excuses this late in the game.

Robots, I hate them all, too!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 01:24:01 AM
OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennesse.

ROFLOL!!!

I had to google.  I do think Joran was using them on himself, seriously.

Oh, I'm sure of that! I mean the alternative is just, well, I'm sure only Joran could "appreciate" them. I mean can't you just imagine a girl's reaction? "You want to do WHAT, WHERE?"

Nobody answered me today when I asked how they were "removed" or who Ben Wa was and why he would allow such things to be named after him! He must have been a Hillbilly, according to Blue Moon!

I've been ribbed about it ALL day, and I hear I'm getting "creative" lamp finials for Christmas. <rolling eyes>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 01:24:32 AM
I have to call it a night.  Early rise tomorrow--need to go to the Mennonites to get green beans, corn, tomatoes, sourdough bread. I love it.  Good night Monkeys.

G`night Blue Moon! ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 01:25:35 AM
Joran van der Sloot on DVD a hit in Peru | VK.tv ...(with video)

A DVD about Joran van der Sloot goes like hot cakes in Peru. It is a fictional film about the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba. Van der Sloot is in Peru on suspicion of murder Stephany Flores. (June 15, 2010)

http://www.vk.tv/nieuws/article1390338.ece/Dvd_over_Joran_van_der_Sloot_een_hit_in_Peru


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 01:29:19 AM
Tylergal, yes that's why we started the Murder and Crime thread.  Aruba lied and was actually claiming they had not had a murder in the last 20 years to travel agents.  We knew we saw them in their news all the time along with a very large amount of other crimes.

Turns out that whole region is totally crime infested and has one of the highest crime rates in the world, higher than even in this country by far.

Like you, I was hoping to find out what RenHo's brush with the law was about.  Maybe a little of that karma coming her way as well, I hope.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 01:31:12 AM
I have to call it a night.  Early rise tomorrow--need to go to the Mennonites to get green beans, corn, tomatoes, sourdough bread. I love it.  Good night Monkeys.

AH!! Enjoy, Blue Moon!! I'm going to the Amish store in Chucky soon, and we're all set for Apple Butter this year with a brass kettle, stand, and original dipper!! We do it at the clinic with the patients on a Saturday and they love it!! We buy the jars, a truckload of apples, sugar, oil of cinnamon, and red hots, and it's an all day fun time! They take home enough to last them all winter. <wink>

Sleep well and God Bless!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 01:31:47 AM
Sorry to jump in the discussion without warning. I read on the front page of SM 6/18 - news posted. With Mention of Austin Powers. I am adding this for comic relief that is relevant to Joran. Otherwise I would not put it here. 

 I don't know who or how many follow Austin Power Movies - but this vid is of Dr. Evil from the movie Goldmember. Offering his thoughts ... If " Dr. Evil " ruled the world ..
http://www.youtube.com/v/CST7w_Otz7o&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0
yes he is isn't he ....... 


* you can find his vid clip posted in every language .. on yt.
its all in fun.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 01:31:52 AM
Northern Rose, thank you for that steady stream of all the latest news.

How wonderful that all of Peru will know about Natalee now and that Joran is a multiple murderer.  THey can take pride in the fact that their LE collected all the evidence unlike the slimes in Aruba who flatly refused to do so.

There is just no way to explain away TWO young girls being killed like this.  Tends to remove all doubt.  Well, to everybody except Anita and she doesn't seem to have any morals at all.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 19, 2010, 01:32:51 AM
Joran van der Sloot on DVD a hit in Peru | VK.tv ...(with video)

A DVD about Joran van der Sloot goes like hot cakes in Peru. It is a fictional film about the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba. Van der Sloot is in Peru on suspicion of murder Stephany Flores. (June 15, 2010)

http://www.vk.tv/nieuws/article1390338.ece/Dvd_over_Joran_van_der_Sloot_een_hit_in_Peru

The woman said, "girls between the ages of 18 to 20 are the ones interested in the dvd."

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 01:36:28 AM
Joran van der Sloot on DVD a hit in Peru | VK.tv ...(with video)

A DVD about Joran van der Sloot goes like hot cakes in Peru. It is a fictional film about the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba. Van der Sloot is in Peru on suspicion of murder Stephany Flores. (June 15, 2010)

http://www.vk.tv/nieuws/article1390338.ece/Dvd_over_Joran_van_der_Sloot_een_hit_in_Peru

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/PeruDVD.jpg)

(http://www.flixray.com/dvd_covers/200911/122502.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 01:37:30 AM
PB, I have to wonder if they have a DVD player in Castro, Castro.  They have TV so maybe so.  I would not be surprised to hear a copy of that DVD makes its way into there. 

The higher profile Joran is, the more noteriety for taking him down. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 01:38:10 AM
Thanks Deenie, lolol



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 01:39:35 AM
Heading for the Monkey Bunkey. 

Joran will go before the judge in a little over 48 hours.  It's the first step.

'Nite, all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 01:40:15 AM
June 18, 2010
 
Aruba Will Re-Open Joran van der Sloot Murder Case
Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is already facing criminal charges for his confession to the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. He many now also be facing another court case, as Aruba's chief prosecutor, Peter Blanken, works to re-open the five-year-old Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

According to Fox News, Blanken hopes to send a team to Peru to question Joran van der Sloot near the end of August. Blanken says van der Sloot told Peruvian authorities that he wants to speak with Aruban Police about the Holloway case again, and that Peruvian authorities are open to cooperating with Aruban officials in the interview process.

Media outlets speculate that van der Sloot's change of heart can probably be attributed to fear: the Dutchman is afraid of serving time in Peruvian prison, and experts say he is hoping to be extradited to the United States to stand trial for the Holloway murder. If he is convicted in Peru, however, van der Sloot will have to serve his entire sentence there—which could be up to 35 years—before going on trial in Aruba.

Unlike his immediate confession in the Flores murder, van der Sloot has given Aruban authorities multiple accounts of what happened the night of Holloway's disappearance in 2005. Many of his confessions have actually been elaborate hoaxes set up by the Dutch playboy as a way to get extra money for gambling and travel. But now van der Sloot may be ready to get serious about his confession as friends, family and attorneys have turned their backs on the suspect.

Reports from the Peruvian jail say that the young man already has several murder plots against him inside the prison. Officials also say van der Sloot is on suicide watch.

http://www.biography.com/news/aruba-will-re-open-joran-van-der-sloot-murder-case-578300

Hi Monkeys!  I'm still catching up...

Found this one interesting considering the case was supposedly still open since right after the range rover confessions...that is unless they closed it again without letting anyone know.  

I can sympathize with Anna, I can feel my blood pressure rising with the little I've read of what Anita has decided to come out and say.  GMAFB!  Does she really believe anyone will buy that CRAP?  Someone (sorry can't remember who right now) said they thought when she did speak out that it might be with honesty and humility...SHE DOESN'T KNOW THE MEANING OF THOSE WORDS!  ugghhhh.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 01:40:58 AM
Heading for the Monkey Bunkey. 

Joran will go before the judge in a little over 48 hours.  It's the first step.

'Nite, all.

Nite Anna! That's a nice thought to sleep with! <wink>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 01:40:59 AM
Thanks Deenie, lolol



I enjoyed that too, Deenie! :)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 01:43:53 AM
BM, that's a good nickname for them, "clackers." I  will probably never remember that Ben Wha name.  It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Anna, it has been quite the ride.  I agree about seeing and learning everything.  I will never forget the girl in the bathtub, or learning about people hanging themselves in the act of having sex. 

It has been quite an experience.  Not sure it is one that will enrich my Sunday School class, but it has opened my eyes.  I have learned to curse like a sailor and hate like the devil. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 01:45:44 AM
Sorry to jump in the discussion without warning. I read on the front page of SM 6/18 - news posted. With Mention of Austin Powers. I am adding this for comic relief that is relevant to Joran. Otherwise I would not put it here. 

 I don't know who or how many follow Austin Power Movies - but this vid is of Dr. Evil from the movie Goldmember. Offering his thoughts ... If " Dr. Evil " ruled the world ..
http://www.youtube.com/v/CST7w_Otz7o&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0
yes he is isn't he ....... 


* you can find his vid clip posted in every language .. on yt.
its all in fun.





Thank you, and now I can say good night.  I have had my laugh.  I needed that.  Goodnight, sleep tight. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 01:45:56 AM
BM, that's a good nickname for them, "clackers." I  will probably never remember that Ben Wha name.  It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Anna, it has been quite the ride.  I agree about seeing and learning everything.  I will never forget the girl in the bathtub, or learning about people hanging themselves in the act of having sex. 

It has been quite an experience.  Not sure it is one that will enrich my Sunday School class, but it has opened my eyes.  I have learned to curse like a sailor and hate like the devil. 

I thought they were imported cheeses in wax, when I first saw them. lol

Silly me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 19, 2010, 01:48:52 AM
PB, I have to wonder if they have a DVD player in Castro, Castro.  They have TV so maybe so.  I would not be surprised to hear a copy of that DVD makes its way into there. 

The higher profile Joran is, the more noteriety for taking him down. 

I was wondering as well...seems like they have everything is there from the 20/20 report.

I agree.

The man was saying it was very important for the dvd to be out so that people could see it.

SPORTER wanted attention he is getting alright...too bad he doesn't have his sunglasses. POS


pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 19, 2010, 01:49:48 AM
Heading for the Monkey Bunkey. 

Joran will go before the judge in a little over 48 hours.  It's the first step.

'Nite, all.

Nite Anna

God BLESS

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 01:50:22 AM
Good night Monkeys!

I'm exhausted after a very long day in class and then 8 hours on the road, I think I'll get some rest and finish catching up with some coffee in the morning!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 01:50:37 AM
Klaas the names of the actors - Cover of the DVD
Tracy Pollan is wife of Michael J. Fox
Grant Show is famous for his "duration" Melrose Place. ( among soaps and other shorts)
and Catherine Dent is all over the place - within tv made productions - small bits of cop shows and or related.

The link to the DVD -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1307456/
Filming Location: Cape Town, South Africa
--
I am sure Klass you are aware of all of this. I have to add though - the release dates to other countries
Distributors:

    * Sony Pictures Television (2009) (USA) (TV)
    * Lifetime Television (2009) (USA) (TV) (original airing)
    * Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (2010) (Argentina) (DVD)
    * Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (2010) (Netherlands) (DVD)

    * Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (2009) (USA) (DVD)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 01:54:22 AM
Thanks Deenie, lolol



I enjoyed that too, Deenie! :)


You are All Welcome - If I can offer a giggle .. Its worth it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 01:55:21 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_Grad00o9.jpg)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/StephanyFlores_1.jpg)

Truth & Justice
for Natalee and Stephany!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 01:57:03 AM
Good night Monkeys!

I'm exhausted after a very long day in class and then 8 hours on the road, I think I'll get some rest and finish catching up with some coffee in the morning!


g`night texasmom - rest well!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 19, 2010, 02:00:28 AM
Good nite... I too am heading out...long day at work. Real Estate in New York in June is INSANE!!

God BLESS

JUSTICE for Natalee and Stephany!!

May God comfort their families.

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 19, 2010, 02:01:59 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_Grad00o9.jpg)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/StephanyFlores_1.jpg)

Truth & Justice
for Natalee and Stephany!

God Bless these 2 BEAUTIFUL girls.

So sad.

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 02:22:32 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/deepak3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/satish4.jpg)

I`m gonna catch me a little poo tinky Kalpoe...

Stuff em in a shoe box...

Bop em on the head!


10 1/2 or 14 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 02:25:37 AM
I add in Memory
If Natalee .. Stephany could Sing out loud from heaven- to their Mama's, to their Daddies~ They, I think, would sing ..something like this .. the beautiful voice of Colbie Callat

http://www.youtube.com/v/jnT193S9F_U&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0

Standing for the Girls * no longer here, yet very much thought of and cared for ~ by the World.
Justice for Natalee & Stephany



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 19, 2010, 02:35:43 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

Yes Tennessee does.  I saw them two weeks ago at Hillbilly Village in Pigeon Forge. 

They have them in Gatlinburg too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: TURBOTHINK on June 19, 2010, 02:38:14 AM

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

Insanity will not wash with the Feds..............Federal prisons are full of white collar criminals who tried it unsuccessfully.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 02:42:59 AM
One more vid and I won't add any more here -
this is a song written and sung by a Mother - for her Daughter. Music Artist Sade
It is a sweet, simple song with huge meaning. 
For All our Daughters - including Natalee and Stephany ...

http://www.youtube.com/v/D5DvIiHGygA&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 02:46:20 AM
Good nite... I too am heading out...long day at work. Real Estate in New York in June is INSANE!!

God BLESS

JUSTICE for Natalee and Stephany!!

May God comfort their families.

pb
I bet your looking at pounding the pavement " heels" and sitting in traffic - PB -
Best to You


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 02:52:00 AM
I am not going to be watching ABC 20/20. I am peeved. While I promise not to march on Disneyland and burn it down... I will not contribute one rating point to this.


Love letters.... yeeeeee blehhhhhhhh.

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/walterdunham.jpg)

It is ABC`s generalllll directiiiiion in which I primarily do my frowning.

Ditto!!!!

Tritto!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 19, 2010, 03:12:17 AM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.

so why perchance is he shaving off one month? there is a reason.........

He didn't even know Joran until after PVDS died and Joran came to Aruba.  I think that was early March?  So he met Joran some time after that.  Joran left Aruba for Columbia on May 13th.  I think John Ludwick forgot his basic math.

Joran added John Ludwick as a friend March 6, 2010.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 03:48:26 AM

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

Insanity will not wash with the Feds..............Federal prisons are full of white collar criminals who tried it unsuccessfully.
The Jig is UP with Joran. He is within jurisdiction of Peru's Laws. He is not a citizen of the US - so nothing applies to him from the US within his civil rights. He is a product of his own country - and yet is being held " with confession" ( regardless if he had proper representation at the time) in Peru.  He has not a leg to stand on. Nada~ If he were to have been charged with a misdemeanor " in Aruba" and given probation within Natalee's case - He would be documented in Aruba. Therefore  he would have " some" way of retribution - Something working for him. For Aruba to have and offer up to the officials in Peru.  That he was Not " charged as a felon" but did admit to some responsibility - to Natalee's case. But he never did that. He walked away from Aruba with all the ppl " chanting " He is innocent.  His ERROR - He is Joran - the taller more masculine version of Casey. He thinks he walks on Water.  He should have " if he really wanted to be that Guy, to walk and go freely without notice- should have admitted himself to be within Natalee's disappearance. He would have gotten off with probation and could have easily fled Aruba after the fact. ( officials in other countries (3rd world or near) they would find his records from Aruba and say - Let him go) if he were to be involved with any crimes. Gambling, extortion, playing with girls to make them escorts etc (not murder).  Claim Him punk. But that is not the case at all. Its quite the opposite. He has no " record within Natalee's death in Aruba" he has nothing on paper against him. He was held for questioning and let go.  So now its "Politics".  You have the officials in Aruba that will NOT admit they did anything wrong - Will not offer up anything that is pointing the finger to them " yet the Nations are screaming at Aruba at present " WHY Did you let him Go, Why did you offer him Special treatment - WHY Was He not Held Responsible, Why and than it follows suit to his Father, ( his works when alive) to the Atty's representing the Family VDS- The infamous Anita ick.
Now you have the Officials in Peru screaming - He murdered one of our own - Stephany in cold blood. It's pure debacle.
 But the thing that is trite and yet is of a mention - Aruba survives off of American's and others who vacation - Tourism. Peru not so much.  Aruba the longer they Stand against Natalee's Case NOW as of present - they are Losing $$$ Money.. losing tourism. Much more than they could ever imagine 5yrs ago today.  They are going to step up soon. I have a feeling. I have seen the Boycott Aruba on SM for over 3 yrs of being a member on SM. Yes, it was made a bumper sticker by those of SM who actually went to Aruba to find Natalee/her Justice. But Now its no longer a bumper sticker -Aruba is being held accountable. Aruba is in the spot light ~ not for Fun either.  People now from every nation have proof that Aruba failed Natalee. 
The Proof is now sitting in a cell (too proper for him) - but I don't care -
he Joran is " contained" .. he is not going anywhere soon. 
So who's on first at this point.  The one who is bleeding out ( not to be funny nor smart) it is Aruba with lack of tourism. That is the question? Is Aruba going to finally make a statement?  Who is going to step up and admit failure * no one.. It won't be for Natalee.. that Aruba makes a statement, nope.  But it will come soon.  And it will be said and it won't have to due with extradition of Joran either. If anything Aruba will finally be offering enough info to keep Joran in Peru. Just enough to sweeten them - to make them look like the Hero.  Than some makeshift half axs (within the law) "statement " will come out ~ from Aruba's officials. That will extinguish Aruba's officials from wrong doings - or lack of participation within Natalee's case.
  Like Blink says - Bet your Bippy.  All is jmo.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 04:16:40 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.

All of this puts people who are mentally ill in a bad light.  Mentally ill people do not just go around killing people.  Joran knows right from wrong.  Anything he wants to do is right and anything anyone else wants him to do is wrong.

Anita, let go of the ties and give yourself a break, live your own life and let him take his lumps.  If he needs help, make sure he gets it, but if he does not want it, you cannot force him to take it.  He no longer needs a mommy but he could use a Mother.  A mother's job is different than a mommy, he is old enough to look after himself.  Love him but don't enable him.  He has made his own decisions and he basically told you to stuff it where the sun doesn't shine.  You cannot make him do anything, please think about this. 

Your other children do not need to lose their Mom to a heart attack.  They need the one parent they still have to show them what to do when someone tells them to flake off.  By letting Joran treat you this way, you are showing them it is all right for him to treat them that way also.  One dead and one wounded, what is your choice?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 04:17:45 AM
I may be loosing my mind but the article Lifesong posted says that sporter fled Peru after murdering Stephany to go check himself into a clinic?

Sorry it's beem a long day for me, the county accidentally cut our phone and cable lines digging out trees and I am on my neighbours wireless until the phone company decides to come out around Tuesday.

Oh, Northern Rose, I am so sorry, your loss is our loss.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 04:39:05 AM
CBB I think you have it correct.  If the big bad FBI did not try to catch her spawn then he would not have snapped and could happily continue playing his little game of catch me if you can.  IIRC there was an article shortly after Stephany was murdered that said he was to go for treatment.


I'd forgotten that, NR! Thanks for the reminder! There was also some information that Anita and he weren't getting along well because he was gambling and cavorting. I wonder if the treatment was set up to give him an out for what he said on tape to the FBI, or if it was set up prior to that. My guess is AFTER, but I don't know that.

Send him off to NL and put him in the wacko brigade, and he can plead insanity for the set-up by FBI and Natalee's death.  See, it's Anita who is entangled and mentally ill.  She gave it to Joran.  It's hereditary.  She is a total fruitcake.

LOL! Fruitcake with EXTRA nuts! <wink>

He might be able to fly with an insanity plea for the extortion, but he exhibited loads of conscienceness of guilt and rational planning to cover up and escape with Stephany's murder. Mighty helpful of him to do a good bit of that on film, too! Ohhh, Joran! You may win an oscar and when it's awarded to you, I hope the inmates use it like the Bwa Ha balls the jailers took from you.

OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

But you don't live in Tennessee, do you?

            (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Emoticons/19.gif)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 04:45:05 AM
Sorry! It wasn't supposed to be such a huge picture! Maybe someone can delete it and I'll upload a smaller version.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 04:45:40 AM


          (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/roz.jpg)                    (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Bearlyhere/Monkey%20Cases/ISABingo_04252010_4-1.jpg)



The only difference is that Roz ends up being one of the good guys.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Image56-1.png)

ROFLMAO

Perfect!

You know what I like about this?  It was a monkey project.  The original idea came from Carpe--he said she was a slug, I found a picture of a slug in the same position and with the same expression of the picture, that she lied about the circumstances of, then Brandi made it come to life.  Of course, it would not have been complete without Klaas rolling on the floor and laughing about it.  I wonder how Petey felt about that.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 04:47:17 AM
Sorry! It wasn't supposed to be such a huge picture! Maybe someone can delete it and I'll upload a smaller version.

Yikes, who is blowing the place apart?

Lol!  I'll take it down.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 04:55:01 AM
OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennesse.

ROFLOL!!!

I had to google.  I do think Joran was using them on himself, seriously.

It was to make him 'fit' sotaspeak.  Otherwise, there was nothing in it for his partner.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 05:01:34 AM
Sorry! It wasn't supposed to be such a huge picture! Maybe someone can delete it and I'll upload a smaller version.

Yikes, who is blowing the place apart?

Lol!  I'll take it down.



Haha, thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 05:05:32 AM
Part one of the interview - the frontpage of De Telegraaf

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - June 19th 2010

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2474/img057v.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/img057v.jpg/)


Joran's mother breaks silence
"[/size]My son is sick in his head"

ORANJESTAD (Aruba) - Saturday
by special reporters Johan van den Heuvel en Bert Huisjes

The Mother of Joran, Anita van der Sloot, breaks the silence after many years. She says her son got into heavy psychological trouble.
Anita van der Sloot tells her story today exclusively in De Telegraaf. She said yes to a meeting with reporters, because she finds the image of Joran as "a monster" doesn't tell the whole story.
She doesn't rule out that he migt have killed Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flee she was in contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt like he was being "followed and watched".
According to her Joran was in heavy psychological distress after his father died. She says he blamed himself for his early death.

In the interview with De Telegraaf she says that Joran left for Peru, to escape from being admitted to a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.
"He had agreed to being admitted. But two days before he was supposed to leave for the Netherlands, he left the house."
The only thing she found, was a note that she shouldn't worry.
The director of Castro Castro yesterday tried to convince Joran van der Sloot to have an interview with CNN about the "excellent conditions in his cell" and him being treated well.
When Joran said no, he was taken out of his cell and reporters were given access to his cell. They were allowed to take pictures and shoot videos. The director indicated that Joran has a real bed in his cell with a mattress, running water, a towel and a bible to read from. His toilet is a hole in the ground.
Van der Sloot for now has the privilege of the heavily guarded cell, close to the director's office. This is a precaution, so that no one can cause him any harm.
Monday he has a court appearance.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 19, 2010, 05:31:36 AM
Carpe - his idea of Anita ... Roz ..
Hah I laugh because I always thought that Cindy Anthony looked like a Sleestak. ( land of the lost) hisses like one too. She needs a spit bucket 1/2 the time ..when she lying.... I mean speaking.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/boxah104/sleestak-ca-1-1.jpg)
The media keeps comparing them ... so I guess it is .. in retrospect they are both ..
of the same breed. Had to add.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 19, 2010, 05:34:31 AM
Thanks, Jo-An

Anita should keep that appointment.....for herself.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 19, 2010, 06:19:36 AM
From RU:

I found the Telegraaf-interview online:

Translated:

THE arrest of Joran was not only world news. It was his mother, Anita van der Sloot (53) years on Aruba after an endpoint. For the first time she speaks. His mother will not go after Joran in his Peruvian cell. "If he did, he must bear the consequences. I can not embrace him. "She claims that her son was severely mentally in recent years ran into trouble. "His departure to Peru was a flight to escape from a clinic."

"Joran BUT HAD listened to me '

Mother Anita van der Sloot Mother Anita van der Sloot breaks silence after years

Oranjestad (Aruba), Saturday
Each son has a mother. The murder suspect Joran. Anita van der Sloot was a few weeks back a note: "I'm gone, do not worry. She saw her eldest son for the first time when he was captivated by the Peruvian police were shown on TV.
For years she stood behind him. "I believe Joran. Despite his many lies. I felt he was nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway had to do in 2005. He had left on the beach. I still believe that. "But, she says:" Stephany he may have slain. "
In half years she lost two members of her family. Died in February her husband, former judge Paul van der Sloot during a game of tennis. "He is accused of Joran had helped. It is not. Nobody insisted it harder to Joran that he had to speak the truth. On TV was a caricature of Paul. He was a gentle, honest, committed man. "

"After Natalee disappearance, he had already closed clinic should have done"

Anita van der Sloot, a schoolteacher in Aruba, never came to the fore. She informs the press. Yes, she once accompanied Joran and Paul to a TV show, where her son a glass of wine to Peter. R. de Vries pitched. "That Sarde him, chased him."

Desperate
Now she wants to talk for once. Not good to talk to her son. Not. "He lied so much that we were desperate. He also told me: 'Mom, I know no more or sometimes even just a lie or the truth. " Joran is sick in his head, but he wanted no help. "
Her son is a monster in the eyes of many. But can anyone blame her especially when her son Joran they see? "He was a sweet boy that loves animals and his grandmother. Funny, open. He has gradually lost its way. It was insidious. "
"After he was arrested for the disappearance of Natalee, he was traumatized. We then made a big mistake. We sent him to the Netherlands to study. He had entered a clinic should have done, he already had psychiatric help. He got no rest, was pursued. "
"When he walked into the trap of Peter R. de Vries, it went downhill even faster. I've seen the videotapes of the crude undercover operation. His confession was also a nice piece assembly. Joran was trying to impress. That was bad. He was then pointed at. He pretended he had cold. Joran was tough ... "She holds her fingers a piece of each other:" He has such heart, as lad al "
According to Anita said Paul regularly reproachfully. "Then he said:" Why do you say that all? "Joran then shrugged his shoulders:" I do not know, Dad, it just happens. " In consultation with his school in Arnhem, we decided that he had to leave the Netherlands. He could go to a college affiliated to the Arnhem Business School in Bangkok, Thailand.
Joran had already had talks with a psychiatrist, she says. He needed treatment but did not sit according to Anita for inclusion. "He denied it. He had grown, we could not force him. There was always concern. He fell in love with poker. That was not a game anymore, he could not stop. He was hooked. "

"I'm having now is not crying for him"

The family hoped that Joran could pick up a new life in Thailand. That did not work, Anita agrees. "He was again searched by De Vries. He still had nine months to graduate. But students and parents complained that Joran there as well in school. They were not safe. Joran was sent away. "
Since then, he wandered the globe. "We had no grip. Then again, he was sweet, other times he was looking for money. He explained a reporter from Fox News, Greta Van Susteren on to money. He invented his Natalee had sold as sex slaves. He became more of a mental case. His two younger brothers looked worried and horror to. "Ma, take away," they said. "He drags you into the abyss."
The prelude to his arrest in Peru began in February, so she feels it. "When Paul died, we gathered in Arnhem to cremate him. My two youngest sons flew in from the U.S., where they study. I came from Aruba and Joran was somewhere else. "
"Two days Joran cried. He even hung crying over the coffin. "It's my fault, Dad," he said. "I have delivered a heart attack." Then he moved in with his mother in Aruba. "For months, he said hardly anything. He laughed no more, as he always was a happy boy. He did not even play poker. Only in April and May was a bit better. He was painting the fence. "
Anita took the decision that he should be included. "I had an appointment with a Dutch hospital. The insurance had been arranged through Menzis. Two days before he was to the Netherlands, I found the note when I got home. He had gone to Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He fled for his treatment. "
A few days before the death of Stephany in Lima he called home. "He sounded strange and hunted," says Anita. "He said he was chased. He was with a girl stopped and robbed. Two men had him pictures of Natalee show. He was very frightened and incoherent. Was it true? Or was it in his head? "
The day before his arrest she spoke to him again. "I said Joran, you are internationally sought. There is one girl dead. Where are you? "He was on his way to Chile. "He sounded scared. "A dead girl?" Then he fell silent for a moment and said: "It's not Stephany? No, not Stephany! "I said he had to say."

Target
Turned out that Joran was previously targeted by an FBI operation in Aruba. "I thought it was strange that the lawyer for the Holloway family on the island. I now believe that Joran in Peru Stephany indeed possible has done something. Maybe in a tantrum? I do not know. I am deeply saddened that a businessman Flores has lost his daughter and my son. It feels like. "
Occasionally gnaw the coincidences. "Exactly five years after Natalee disappeared? Holloway was with him. Flores businessman who held a press conference and spoke only about Natalee. But it was his own daughter. I do not sometimes. I follow everything ... But I have to stand back, save me now. "
She thinks it's time for Joran "let go".
"If only he had listened to his mother. Then, this never happened. If he were not so rushed, possibly not. It is, if, if, if ... But if he has slain Stephany, then he must bear the burden. I will visit him in his cell, I can not embrace him. But he must have a fair trial. He was mentally derailed. That has to take into consideration? "
Anita van der Sloot remains alone in Aruba. "I can not cry at Joran as to Paul, or as I'd like. I come to mourn not. I want a fund for prisoners in Peru, not only for Joran. Now everyone will hear how they are imprisoned. There should be improved, there must be an extradition treaty. Whoever commits a crime should pay. He remains my son, how bad what he did. This is all I can. I want to raise my son well. Two are doing very well, one got into trouble. My wish is that he is still human, and treated him get psychological help. "


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 06:30:11 AM
Interview with Anita van der Sloot - De Telegraaf - June 19th 2010

The actual interview:

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1834/img058.jpg) (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/img058.jpg/)

(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3119/img059v.jpg) (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/img059v.jpg/)


"If only he had listened to me"

Joran being arrested wasn't just a news item across the world. For his mother Anita van der Sloot (53), living in Aruba, it was a an ending. For the first time she speaks out. His mother won't be visiting Joran in his Peruvian cell. "If he did this, he has to face the consequences. I can't embrace him."
She says her son got into severe psychological distress over the past years. "His trip to Peru was a flee, to get out of being admitted to a psychiatric institution."

ORANJESTAD (Aruba), Saturday
Every son has a mother. Murder suspect Joran does as well. Anita van der Sloot found a note a couple of weeks ago: "I'm gone, don't worry". The first time she saw her son again, was when Peruvian police showed him on TV, with handcuffs.

For years on end she stood by him. "I believed Joran. Despite his many lies. I felt that he had nothing to do with Natalee Hollaway's disappearance in 2005. He left her at the beach. I still believe that."
But she also says: "He might have killed Stephany."
Over the last 6 months she lost two members of her family. In February her husband died, ex-judge Paul van der Sloot, while playing tennis. "He has been accused of helping Joran, That's not true. No one else insisted with Joran that he had to tell the truth. TV showed Paul as a caricature. But he was a kind, honest and involved man."
Anita van der Sloot, a teacher in Aruba, never looked for publicity. She avoided the press. Yes, once she accompanied Joran and Paul to a TV-show, where her son threw a glass of wine at Peter R. de Vries.
"He was nagging him, teasing him."

Desperate
Now, for just this one time, she wants to talk. Not to justify her son's actions. On the contrary. "He lied so much, we were desperate. He said to me: "Mom, I don't even know whether something I say is a lie or the truth." Joran is sick in his head, but he refused to be helped. Her son is a monster in the eyes of many. But can anyone blame her for mainly seeing him as her son? "He was a sweet kid, he loved animals and his grandmother. Cheerful, open. Somewhere along the way he lost his way. It went very slowly."
"After being arrested for Natalee's disappearance, he was traumatised. We made a huge mistake. We sent him to the Netherlands to go to school. He should have been admitted to a closed psychiatric institution, he then already needed psychiatric help. He had no rest, was being followed around."
"When he walked into Peter R. de Vries' trap, it all went downhill very fast. I saw the raw footage of the undercover sting operation. His confession was one a nice piece of montage. Joran tried to be impressive. That wasn't right. People pointed fingers at him. He acted like he didn't care. Joran acted cocky..."
She holds her fingers apart, just a small bit. "He had a small heart, even as a kid."
According to Anita, Paul blamed Joran on a regular basis. "He would say: Why do you say all these things?" Joran just shrugged and said: "I don't know, dad, it just happens." After consultation with the school in Arnhem we decided to leave the Netherlands. He could go to an affiliated business school in Bangkok, Thailand. Even back then, Joran had talks with a psychiatrist, she says. He needed treatment, but Anita says he didn't want to be admitted. "He was in denial. He was a grown-up, we couldn't force him. We were always so worried about him. He got into playing poker. But it wasn't a game anymore, he just could not stop playing. He was addicted." Joran's family hoped he could pick up his life again in Thailand. But that didn't quite work out, Anita admits. "Again De Vries looked him up. He had nine months to go until graduation. But students and parents were complaining that Joran went to school there. They thought it wasn't safe. Joran was expelled." Since then he has been roaming the world. "We had no grip on him. One moment he could be very sweet, the next he was looking for money. He extorted a reporter for Fox News, Greta van Susteren, for money. He made up a story about selling Natalee as a sex slave. More and more he became a psychiatric case. His two younger brothers were worried and appalled. "Mom, step away from this," they said. "He's dragging you with him into this abyss."
The road leading up to his arrest in Peru, started in February, she feels. "When Paul died, we all came together in Arnhem for his cremation. My two youngest sons flew in from the US, where they go to college. I came from Aruba and Joran came from somewhere else."
"Joran cried for two days. He even threw himself over the coffin. 'It's all my fault, daddy,' he said. 'I caused you to have this heart attack'." After that he moved in with Anita in Aruba. "For months he didn't speak. He didn't laugh, despite the fact that he has always been a cheerful boy. He even stopped playing poker. It wasn't until April, May when he started to feel a bit better. He started painting the fence."
Anita then decided he should be admitted. "I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment." A couple of days before Stephany's death in Lima, he called home. "He sounded weird and agitated," Anita says. "He said he was being followed. Together with a girl he had been robbed. Two men had shown him pictures of Natalee. He was very scared and incoherent. Was it true? Or was it all in his head?"
The day before his arrest she spoke to him again. "I said: Joran, there is an international warrant for your arrest. There's a dead girl. Where are you?" He was on his way to Chile. "He sounded really frightened. 'A girl is dead?' Then he went silent and said: 'It isn't Stephany, is it? No, not Stephany!' I said he had to turn himself in."

Target
It then became clear that Joran had been a target for an FBI-operation in Aruba. "I thought it was strange that the attorney for the Holloways was on the island. I now believe that Joran might have done something to Stephany in Peru. Maybe an act of rage? I don't know. I'm very saddened that that businessman Flores lost his daughter, and I my son. That's the way it feels like."
Now and then she's bothered by all the coincidences. "Exactly five years after Natalees disappearance? The Holloways were working Joran. That businessman Flores held a press conference and only spoke about Natalee. But it was supposed to be about his own daughter. Sometimes I just don't know anymore... I follow everything. But I need to take my distance now, salvage myself." She thinks it's time to let Joran go. "If only he had listened to his mother. Then this would've never happened. If he hadn't been chased like he has, maybe neither. It is: if, if, if... But if he really killed Stephany, he has to carry that burden. I will not visit him in his cell, I can't embrace him. But he does deserve a fair trial. He is derailed psychiatrically. That should be considered, shouldn't it?"
Anita van der Sloot stays behind, alone, in Aruba. "I can't cry over Joran like I cried over Paul, or like I'd want to. I don't have time to grieve. I want to set up a fund for prisoners in Peru, not just for Joran. Now is the time, now everybody hears about their conditions. That has to improve, there needs to be an extradition treaty. Who commits a crime, has to suffer the consequences. He will still be my son, no matter how bad the thing he has done is. This is the only thing I can do now. I've always wanted to raise my sons well. Two of them are doing great, one got into trouble. My wish is that he will be treated humanely and that he get psychological help."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 06:32:13 AM
Oh I'm sorry Buckeye!
I hadn't seen you already posted the interview.
I hadn't refreshed the page and meanwhile had been translating the interview myself...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 19, 2010, 06:52:29 AM
"...  I felt that he had nothing to do with Natalee Hollaway's disappearance in 2005. He left her at the beach. I still believe that. ..."

"... once she accompanied Joran and Paul to a TV-show, where her son threw a glass of wine at Peter R. de Vries.
"He was nagging him, teasing him." ..."

She is - and probably has been always, way to protective to her little prince.

Wake up Anita! He's a serial killer!!! He has murdered at least two young women IN COLD BLOOD!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 06:57:23 AM
Yes, she's still pretty much in denial, although there are a few tiny rays of hope here and there.
But the thing is: you can't force someone to being admitted to a psych. institution in the Netherlands.
So the question is; did he really want to seek help?
Reading Anita's story my answer is still: NO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jonathan45 on June 19, 2010, 07:02:11 AM
@msmarple ---- to your reply 278 [page 14] Natalee Case Discussion 840

My answer to your question: Dead Daddy P was not at home the night Natalee died.
There was one female witness who saw Paulus car returning to Montanja 19 at around 4.00am that night, but she couldn't recognize who was driving.

My 'bike' scenario still stands. Dead Daddy P stated he was asleep between 11.00pm and 6.00am. To cover up his real alibi. Ask the former hotelmanager and close friend from the Marriott.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 19, 2010, 07:06:02 AM
Good morning Monkeys and thank you for all of the latest info on Urine!  A friend in Peru sent us this translated newspaper article.  I hope this link works.  http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://peru21.pe/noticia/491210/van-der-sloot-no-ira-penal-lurigancho&rurl=translate.google.com


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JA on June 19, 2010, 07:26:31 AM
Anita is in denial about Natalee's death/murder.  For her to admit it, she would also have to accept the fact that Paulus was most likely involved.  She would also have to admit that the Aruban government assisted in a coverup.  Right now she knows nothing is happening with the Natalee Holloway case so she is safe actignt his way with publically giving an interview with these comments.

On the other hand, she knows Joran is guilty of Stephany's death.  She knows he is a gambling addict etc. etc.  She knows what happens to him is now out of her hands.  The only hope she has for a lighter sentence is to try to make people believe that he is mentally ill.  Yes, he is mentally ill to a certain extent, but not that he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, not that he isn't in control of his decisions.

Regardless of how indulgent Anita was with Joran growing up, as well as how she turned her head to Paulus' actions she is his mother.  Yes, she was/is part of the problem, it must be hard for a family knowing a child is evil and having to turn away.  It happens all the time. I can't imagine having a family member who comitted an evil crime and having to just walk away. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: NewfieMonkey on June 19, 2010, 07:28:45 AM
Anita Anita Anita ... no wonder you didn't want to give an interview to the US media.  She wanted to do a hatchet job on Beth.  Took her how many days to come up with the whole 'he was two days away from checking into a mental hospital' story.  I don't buy it.  No way, no how was that cocky murdering ass going to check himself in anywhere!  JMO of course ... but not buying it.  Her entire interview is slanted to 'JDVS was driven to this by Beth and deVries' ...

Her son may have killed Stephany ... but it wasn't his fault .. he was driven to it ... yadda yadda ...

What was it JVDS said ... my mother is a real liar ... or something to that effect.  Blech!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 07:49:18 AM
OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennesse.

ROFLOL!!!

I had to google.  I do think Joran was using them on himself, seriously.

It was to make him 'fit' sotaspeak.  Otherwise, there was nothing in it for his partner.



Ah, hah.  I am beginning to understand.  I was just confused about what you do with them.  I thought it might be something like the gerbil deal.  Rolling my eyes at my naivete.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 08:01:29 AM
She doesn't rule out that he migt have killed Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flee she was in contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt like he was being "followed and watched".

WTF.  I bet he did feel like he was being followed and watched.  He had killed Stephany Flores. 

Anita says that Joran acted mentally ill.  I noticed how she and Paulus (and she in particular) endorsed that behavior.  When he was released from jail or interviewed on TV, they were all smiles, patting him on the back, blaming everyone but themselves and Joran for his reckless behavior and acting with disdain toward Beth and the whole family, the justice system and portraying such arrogance, insisting everyone on the island flack for them, being so disconnected from reality, building air castles and lying and she was particularly the enabler. 

She could not bear to think that her name would be spoiled if her son were to admit to what he had done, because she knows full well she is at fault. She has spawned that boy and trained him to her own sense of entitlement.  The very idea that she would even contemplate contacting Queen Bx concerning a possible extradition or maltreatment with the Peruvian justice system further instills in Joran that he should receive special treatment for his criminal behavior.  She feels that they are owed and they can do anything and not be held responsible, and that is Joran's downfall and hers. 

She must, at night in her bed alone, feel some guilt for what she has done to her family.  No doubt she was raised this way and it is in her DNA, and she has just passed it on along. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 19, 2010, 08:10:39 AM
depending on the timing of the alleged phone call (which can be verified by authorities) she could be dropping him in the soup. this sounds exactly like the nonsense he told the chilean cops. he had to back off of it due to all the video surveillance...which leaves me thinking ---- was he setting the stage for an alibi when he murdered stephany??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 19, 2010, 08:11:54 AM
justinsmama
Scared Monkey

He was in counseling for his aggression, was aggressive toward his brothers to the point that he was moved into his own structure, and killed a dog. All long before May 30, 2005. Anita and Paulus should have had him locked away long ago.


BETH: Well, when I hear that the search is continuing for Natalee of course that is something that Jug and her father and I so desperately hope continues. One thing that really concerns me though is the statements that they have from Joran and also there has been a taped confession from Deepak, and they are clearly stating how Natalee is coming in and out of consciousness. Joran has already admitted to having sex with Natalee at his home at 1:40 am. Why, though, they were not brought charges against for rape I just don’t understand


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 08:18:21 AM
Just watched 20/20 with Melody.

Melody - the love of Joran's life.
Melody shares birthday with Natalee -> Natalee ends up dead
Melody looks somewhat like Stephany -> Stephany ends up dead

Coincidence?
I think not.
Sounds to me like he never really got over Melody and subconsciously still "loved" her.

Or am I being paranoid? (http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/smiles/smiles_34.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 08:43:22 AM
From Tripadvisor site:


“I will not be sleeping here anymore”
Hotel Tac Sac

Joran_Sloot   1 contribution
Lima
16 Jun 2010 | Trip type: Solo travel 

1person found this review helpful

Stayed here some nights in May 2010 while playing poker in a nearby casino. Hotel staff is friendly. The room is cheap, around 20 us$. It also looks cheap. The hotel is dirty. The staff is really bad. My room was not cleaned for several days and I did not even hang a label of "do not disturb". Coffee and cake across the street is nice. Taxi rides are a complete rip off in this country. Hotel makes no problem bringing women to your room (it's a shabby place). Free internet turns out to be expensive. I will not be sleeping here anymore.

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserReviews-g294316-d1648892-r67678753-Hotel_Tac_Sac-Lima.html#CHECK_RATES_CONT

ROFL!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 09:02:15 AM
Knowing they have Joran 6 ways to Sunday, Anita goes for the insanity defense.

Sorry, Anita, he fled and died his hair orange like yours to evade.  Crazy people don't know right from wrong and so don't know to do that.



Exactly Anna.  Isn't this what Van der Straaten wanted to do when Joran murdered Natalee.

Yes I did say murderer Anita because that is just what your son is.  He is a born killer.


Anita says: She also asked Melody for her son to pray. "He's not a monster as everybody thinks. He is traumatized, depressed and addicted, but not a murderer.''


He was all these things before he met Natalee.  The only difference this time is that he got caught.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 09:06:02 AM
OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennesse.

ROFLOL!!!

I had to google.  I do think Joran was using them on himself, seriously.

It was to make him 'fit' sotaspeak.  Otherwise, there was nothing in it for his partner.



Ah, hah.  I am beginning to understand.  I was just confused about what you do with them.  I thought it might be something like the gerbil deal.  Rolling my eyes at my naivete.

Yes, that too.  They also have a website and are called Ben Wa Balls, they can be used for Kegel exercises, too.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 09:07:49 AM
John Ludwick  Live on Saturday night @10pm I am going to be on Fox News "Geraldo At Large". Tune in.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273&ref=ts


Good Morning Monks and Guests.  thanks to all who watched 20/20....

Ludwick is sure enjoying his 15 minutes isn't he?  FREAK!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 19, 2010, 09:14:32 AM
Good morning Monkeys and thank you for all of the latest info on Urine!  A friend in Peru sent us this translated newspaper article.  I hope this link works.  http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://peru21.pe/noticia/491210/van-der-sloot-no-ira-penal-lurigancho&rurl=translate.google.com

Thanks Sharon for posting this with the translation.

This article states Joran met Stephany on Friday, the 28th and they agreed to meet on the 30th. If that is true then I think this will support a measure of premeditation, and certainly enough time for Joran to ask around the casino about her or google and learn she might be a viable source for money.

As for Anita's chest beating in that article, IF she was truly committed to getting Joran psychiatric help then why didn't she get godfather Stratten to help????? What about Renfro, her dear, dear friend who posted on his facebook her wistful goodbye. Why weren't they helping with this intervention?

She still doesn't believe he killed Natalee, well by continuing to deny it, just makes me think Paulus was even more involved !!!

Cry me a river Anita, I do not feel sorry for this mother who had warning after warning after warning sign long before..........


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 09:19:04 AM
SNIPPED
OMG!! I asked at work about those balls today! <monkey SHOCK> !  I thought we'd have to do the Heimlich maneuver on my Nurse Practitioner! He inhaled the pickle he was eating, and was laughing so hard, tears were streaming down his face!!

I just don't think they have those in Tennessee.

ROTFLMAO....CBB, coffee just spurted out my nose!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 09:22:08 AM
O/T Shop Note:

I'm off to get rid of my signature line gif. Everyone on this thread knows that I would love nothing more than to make Holiday or seasonal avatars for you all. I've had a really hard time staying on the forum today, as many of you have, and I don't want to run any risk of contributing to the problem for posters. When the new server is in, I'll have a thread in the Lounge for anyone who wants an avatar, and for the Natalee posters who have grown accustomed to delivery here, I'll do that as well.

OK, end of "shop talk". Thanks!

CBB...thanks for all you do for us... SMOOCHIES


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: terryd270 on June 19, 2010, 09:28:29 AM
So has Joran gotten his wakeup call from the front desk yet?  I guess him and his cellmate are bonding, I assume he will has to be careful when he is fending off Big Felix in the showers. Joran is now living with the scum of the world..I'm sure that a large number of those inmates have killed fellow and som may be more of a psychopath then Joran..Think about it, Joran is an addict and addicts need stimulation and he is in closed-off world designed to isolate inmates from social and environmental stimulate, with the ultimate purpose of causing mental illness..  So really he is in hell.. I don't think he will be getting lobster tail with a fine Bordeaux with his meals..  I'm sure he will have some skin conditions, I mean his face looks like its prone to infection anyway and now allowed a shower once a week in spite of no AC in their cells..I assume he needs to be careful about eating rotten food, not the best of tolets in that cell and his cellmates might not appreciate if he isn't careful.. I'm sure he has to be careful with the rats that most prison's are infested with.. So foul cells, systematic rate, humiliation of when his Mother visit, which I believe will be not that many times.. Crude health care, drug dealing by guards. Joran will be beaten for sure, no doubt about it.. So those broom sticks that they use for weight training, I would be scared of what else they could be use for.. So enjoy your stay Joran, I'm sure in a few months no one will know whatever happen to you..I'm sure you won't be checking out of this hotel..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 09:33:54 AM
Thank you Jo-An

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 09:46:47 AM
Part one of the interview - the frontpage of De Telegraaf

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - June 19th 2010

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2474/img057v.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/img057v.jpg/)


Joran's mother breaks silence
"[/size]My son is sick in his head"

ORANJESTAD (Aruba) - Saturday
by special reporters Johan van den Heuvel en Bert Huisjes

The Mother of Joran, Anita van der Sloot, breaks the silence after many years. She says her son got into heavy psychological trouble.
Anita van der Sloot tells her story today exclusively in De Telegraaf. She said yes to a meeting with reporters, because she finds the image of Joran as "a monster" doesn't tell the whole story.
She doesn't rule out that he migt have killed Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flee she was in contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt like he was being "followed and watched".
According to her Joran was in heavy psychological distress after his father died. She says he blamed himself for his early death.

In the interview with De Telegraaf she says that Joran left for Peru, to escape from being admitted to a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.
"He had agreed to being admitted. But two days before he was supposed to leave for the Netherlands, he left the house."
The only thing she found, was a note that she shouldn't worry.
The director of Castro Castro yesterday tried to convince Joran van der Sloot to have an interview with CNN about the "excellent conditions in his cell" and him being treated well.
When Joran said no, he was taken out of his cell and reporters were given access to his cell. They were allowed to take pictures and shoot videos. The director indicated that Joran has a real bed in his cell with a mattress, running water, a towel and a bible to read from. His toilet is a hole in the ground.
Van der Sloot for now has the privilege of the heavily guarded cell, close to the director's office. This is a precaution, so that no one can cause him any harm.
Monday he has a court appearance.



Thanks Jo-An.
Anita was in contact with Joran "during his flee" - good ole behind the scenes Anita. Still trying to save her son from the consequences of his actions.
She was busy advising her son during his escape to Chile. Sick in the head, the new talking point we shall hear over and over and over. 
If, and that's a big if, Joran was to check into a closed section of a clinic prior to leaving Aruba, it was to ameliorate his problems with extortion/fraud.  Sick in the head was used by a cousin in the Netherlands,
Joran said he was sick in the head when examined by a doctor in Castro, Castro.  We thought maybe it translated to headache. 
Anita has put all on notice.  Sick in the head - plan to hear it often.

A cold blooded sociopath/predator who takes what he wants when he wants it, is too sensitive a term for Anita.  It leaves the sporter accountable.

Justice for Natalee and Stefany. 




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 09:49:19 AM
Thank you Jo-An

Janet


I also posted both pieces in the articles only thread, but you probably already saw that. ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
Thanks to Jo-An and Buckeye for posting anita's interview....going to have to reread it a couple more times


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 10:04:25 AM
Joran van der Sloot is a goner.

So says prison expert and ex-con Larry Levine, founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants.

On "The Early Show on Saturday Morning," Levine said van der Sloot will never last in prison in Peru, where he's being held for the May 30 slaying of 21-year-old business student Stephany Flores in his Lima hotel room.

Whole article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/19/earlyshow/saturday/main6597757.shtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 10:04:52 AM
Thank you Jo-An

Janet


I also posted both pieces in the articles only thread, but you probably already saw that. ;-)

Yes ... I have Jo Ann.  Thanks!

I have such mixed feelings about Anita's words.

Have a good Saturday all!.

Janet
7:00 AM PT

++++++

Psalm 118:24
This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it
.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 10:05:11 AM
Part one of the interview - the frontpage of De Telegraaf

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - June 19th 2010

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2474/img057v.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/img057v.jpg/)


Joran's mother breaks silence
"[/size]My son is sick in his head"

ORANJESTAD (Aruba) - Saturday
by special reporters Johan van den Heuvel en Bert Huisjes

The Mother of Joran, Anita van der Sloot, breaks the silence after many years. She says her son got into heavy psychological trouble.
Anita van der Sloot tells her story today exclusively in De Telegraaf. She said yes to a meeting with reporters, because she finds the image of Joran as "a monster" doesn't tell the whole story.
She doesn't rule out that he migt have killed Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flee she was in contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt like he was being "followed and watched".
According to her Joran was in heavy psychological distress after his father died. She says he blamed himself for his early death.

In the interview with De Telegraaf she says that Joran left for Peru, to escape from being admitted to a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.
"He had agreed to being admitted. But two days before he was supposed to leave for the Netherlands, he left the house."
The only thing she found, was a note that she shouldn't worry.
The director of Castro Castro yesterday tried to convince Joran van der Sloot to have an interview with CNN about the "excellent conditions in his cell" and him being treated well.
When Joran said no, he was taken out of his cell and reporters were given access to his cell. They were allowed to take pictures and shoot videos. The director indicated that Joran has a real bed in his cell with a mattress, running water, a towel and a bible to read from. His toilet is a hole in the ground.
Van der Sloot for now has the privilege of the heavily guarded cell, close to the director's office. This is a precaution, so that no one can cause him any harm.
Monday he has a court appearance.



The director of Castro, Castro wanted Joran to give an interview to CNN re the excellent conditions in his cell, and him being treated well.

So, Joran said no and was removed from his cell and reporters were given access to his cell.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
According to what we have heard, Joran is being treated well by Peruvian standards.
Joran still knows how to protect himself by saying no as he waits for the onslaught of accusations from the Netherlands as to the conditions there.
I think Joran is becoming more comfortable in his surroundings.  I hope this changes soon.

I do not think the authorities should have allowed reporters into his cell.
They could have filmed it from the corridor.  Oh well, what do I know.
Perception counts. imo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 10:09:30 AM
Joran van der Sloot is a goner.

So says prison expert and ex-con Larry Levine, founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants.

On "The Early Show on Saturday Morning," Levine said van der Sloot will never last in prison in Peru, where he's being held for the May 30 slaying of 21-year-old business student Stephany Flores in his Lima hotel room.

Whole article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/19/earlyshow/saturday/main6597757.shtml

I do not have a clue why Joran would be at risk.  Joran's stature along with his  uncontrolable anger/rag implies to me that the other inmates should watch their backs.

Janet

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 19, 2010, 10:12:38 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 10:18:11 AM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to law more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 10:20:07 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 19, 2010, 10:21:17 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 10:21:54 AM
ANITA - NO MORE EXCUSES FOR THE MONSTER!

You have KNOWN, this is nothing NEW, you have known he needed help LONG BEFORE NATALEE HOLLOWAY.  You protected him, you coddled him, you were affraid of him.  It is because of this Natalee and Stephany are no longer with us. 

You have been making excuses for Joran his entire life. 


Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)


To explain the above posts by Nativelingo.  For whatever reason she also had reason to visit that psychiatrist office.  The front desk gal in the office is the one who gave her the info on Joran.  Joran was a patient in the same office.  This is all before any of us heard about Natalee Holloway. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 10:24:09 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

I thought they said no blood on the racquet, not no DNA.  Hopefully when the entire report is published it will become clearer if the tennis racquet was used at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 10:24:19 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?


EURobert,

It was my understanding that the tennis racket had been ruled out as a weapon.  Everything Joran did to murder Stephany he did with his bare hands and his white shirt.

Anyone whose understanding is different on this, please correct me.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: OneHappyChica on June 19, 2010, 10:24:35 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

From what I've read, the tennis racket didn't have DNA evidence and was ruled out as a weapon. Joran is right-handed (at least he plays tennis this way).

IMO, Joran had premeditated intentions; however, I'm not entirely convinced robbery was his sole motivator.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 19, 2010, 10:26:46 AM
Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 10:30:26 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

What if he attacked her when they first walked in the room from behind.  He hit her to make her unconscious and then did the rest.  It was said he strangeled her with his shirt.  So this means she wasn't dead when her neck was broken.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 10:30:51 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?


EURobert,

It was my understanding that the tennis racket had been ruled out as a weapon.  Everything Joran did to murder Stephany he did with his bare hands and his white shirt.

Anyone whose understanding is different on this, please correct me.

.

Anna, I did hear that the tennis racket showed no DNA evidence or blood, therefore, probably not used in killing her.  However, having said that, it might be that they did not put everything out on the table early on to see what he would say.  Does that make sense?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 10:32:17 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

It was originally reported that he may have banged her head agains tthe solid wooden bedframe.  At one point Joran said he threw her to the floor.  He also said he held her by the neck and hit her.

So I guess it is not known exactly what he did as yet.  But it is not believed that any weapon was used.  He did it all with his bare hands including beating her eyes out of the sockets.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 10:36:14 AM
hi Monkeys, Happy weekend!
Fantastic reporting and discussion as always. I log in for only an hour at this time to help the server issues.
Nothing to add or subtract from all of the angles, you are all so good at posting whatever is relevant. Interested in the Renho incident, was she the mother of the young man? Waiting to hear from Ms Levi with baited breath. Surely she will have a HUGE article on the incident noting all the guns and "extra" motorcycles, etc.

Just another day in crime free Happy Aruba!

Just a quote after reading the Telegraaf interview:   
 He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
        Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146
        German philosopher (1844 - 1900)

thanks for all you do mods and wonderful members :)
Selena




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 10:37:31 AM
Joran still has to explain this:

How do you explain the wounds in the face and several parts of the body and skull fracture noted during the autopsy?
- I do not know how these injuries were caused


I'm sure he did much more than "just" hit her in the nose and then strangling and choking her.
If her brother says he couldn't recognize her, he did more than those things.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 10:43:48 AM
Hi canoworms.  Happy weekend to you too!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: OneHappyChica on June 19, 2010, 10:44:50 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

What if he attacked her when they first walked in the room from behind.  He hit her to make her unconscious and then did the rest.  It was said he strangeled her with his shirt.  So this means she wasn't dead when her neck was broken.

I don't think he strangled her with his shirt. From the appearance of the shirt, blood is concentrated on the upper portion (around the collar). Had he used the shirt to strangle her, I suspect he would have used an area with greater width (lower portion of shirt) and blood would have been present. I've read the shirt was used to suffocate Stephany when Joran discovered she was still breathing.

I'm not convinced the laptop played a role in this. The laptop and Natalee message were tied to his alleged coffee run. Forensic evidence should hold the answer. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 10:49:50 AM
I fell asleep and missed 20/20 last night.  Can't help but think how much money ABC and others are making from the romanticizing of Joran.

Joran loves Joran - and will do what's necessary to serve himself.  I'm not buying any of it.  He loves?????....hogwash!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
hi can!
Jo-Ann, The forensics will show which injuries were sustained while her heart was still beating ( blood flowing) and the position of death will show from the coloration of her body from livor mortis. ( collection of blood/capillary action/discoloration as the body breaks down tissues, etc). I feel that he repeatedly beat her as she was unconscious, but still alive to produce a final death, overkill, if you will, after the first RAGE based strike, which may have been the nose ( blood still flowing ). He won't admit to this of course, or he "blacks out" in rage/thrill of the moment. (< poor choice of words, but I feel this characterizes that kind of violence with JVDS)
IMHO
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 10:52:58 AM
Joran van der Sloot is a goner.

So says prison expert and ex-con Larry Levine, founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants.

On "The Early Show on Saturday Morning," Levine said van der Sloot will never last in prison in Peru, where he's being held for the May 30 slaying of 21-year-old business student Stephany Flores in his Lima hotel room.

Whole article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/19/earlyshow/saturday/main6597757.shtml


I saw this interview.  Larry Levine said that his advice to Anita was to go buy herself a black
dress and prepare for Joran's funeral.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 10:53:53 AM
Overkill Indeed!

R. I. P. Stefany.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 11:01:12 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

I am not sure what you are asking, Robert. Are you asking me how that happened? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 11:04:38 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

I thought they said no blood on the racquet, not no DNA.  Hopefully when the entire report is published it will become clearer if the tennis racquet was used at all.

...I do remember no blood being found but also thought it was said Stephany's DNA was not on the racquet...I must have been mistaken...sorry


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 11:05:14 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?


EURobert,

It was my understanding that the tennis racket had been ruled out as a weapon.  Everything Joran did to murder Stephany he did with his bare hands and his white shirt.

Anyone whose understanding is different on this, please correct me..

DITTO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 11:05:28 AM
http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/ex-chick-a-mustra-cu-antes-joran-tabata-%E2%80%9Casombroso-y-romantico%E2%80%9D/

Papiamentu translation:

ex-chick owing to indicate cu formerly joran was “asombroso y romantico”

publication: saturday, 19 june 2010. categoria: general

mam by joran is insisti cu the do not murderer!

oranjestad (aan): the declaration of policy popular by abc news, esta “20/20” owing to haci interview cu melody granadillo, because cu in pasado the was the ‘chick’ by joran van der sloot, y cu the have still one dagboek for by the epoca ey.

seven year happen, they was novio y novia, cual owing to continue seven moon.

“he wax incredible,” is thing melody owing to say in one interview cu 20/20. the journalist chris cuomo owing to attain know, con the joran by formerly was full one another person compara cu thing at present world conoce.

melody owing to indica cu joran owing to send pidie coin, via sms, esta $200 before so the depart for by peru! is where all the coin owing to bay then?

according melody, joran owing to cuminza gamble very quite self. according melody, the is believe cu if acaso they owing to remain together, kizas joran will not owing to bay in direccion robez. past owing to see con joran owing to change, although the self conoce because one “otro persona”.

chris cuomo have the dagboek cune at present at new york.

besides, the mam by joran van der sloot, esta anita, also owing to send one e- mail before melody, in cual the is indicate cu keto bay the is believe cu her son is inocente. here the is insisti cu joran “no is one asesino”.

publicamente anita not owing to talk by cu her child owing to worde aresta at peru. but abc news owing to attain the e-mail here.

in this, the is splica cu the do not give neither medio by prensa mericano one interview, because the do not confia they. the is ask melody before remain safe y haci oracion before joran. the is say cu the do not the monster cu they be willing to before world see. the is believe cu joran is traumatiza, deprimi, y have one adiccion. the do not one murderer. cos is give off an odour y the is attain cu is one complot owing to worde work pe.

complot? while cu joran owing to give one detaye extenso at police peruvian by thing past owing to haci cu stephany, con past owing to choke before 1 minuut largo, y also con past owing to tapa her cara cu her same poloshirt, for her stop by breathe. today daily paper is publica this completo, before so kizas the mam also read cu not have neither type by complot here. wake up and smell the roses! if follow so, not only the family is bay till at suela… but aruba once more will cay drasticamente. afresh family van der sloot will is responsable? cuanto aruban have by lose trabao once more?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 11:06:35 AM
ANITA - NO MORE EXCUSES FOR THE MONSTER!

You have KNOWN, this is nothing NEW, you have known he needed help LONG BEFORE NATALEE HOLLOWAY.  You protected him, you coddled him, you were affraid of him.  It is because of this Natalee and Stephany are no longer with us. 

You have been making excuses for Joran his entire life. 


Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)


To explain the above posts by Nativelingo.  For whatever reason she also had reason to visit that psychiatrist office.  The front desk gal in the office is the one who gave her the info on Joran.  Joran was a patient in the same office.  This is all before any of us heard about Natalee Holloway. 

I agree Klaas.  She has known for a long time what her son was capable of.  She helped build the monster.

Anita shifts blame towards everyone else. If you are saying your son has addictions you don't take him to bingo with you where one of his addictions was gambling.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 11:06:53 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

What if he attacked her when they first walked in the room from behind.  He hit her to make her unconscious and then did the rest.  It was said he strangeled her with his shirt.  So this means she wasn't dead when her neck was broken.

I thought he strangled her with his hands and suffocated her with his shirt after throwing her on the floor and seeing she was still breathing???   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nikki 01 on June 19, 2010, 11:07:32 AM
Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 19, 2010, 11:12:23 AM
Good morning Monkeys and thank you for all of the latest info on Urine!  A friend in Peru sent us this translated newspaper article.  I hope this link works.  http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://peru21.pe/noticia/491210/van-der-sloot-no-ira-penal-lurigancho&rurl=translate.google.com

Thanks Sharon for posting this with the translation.

This article states Joran met Stephany on Friday, the 28th and they agreed to meet on the 30th. If that is true then I think this will support a measure of premeditation, and certainly enough time for Joran to ask around the casino about her or google and learn she might be a viable source for money.

As for Anita's chest beating in that article, IF she was truly committed to getting Joran psychiatric help then why didn't she get godfather Stratten to help????? What about Renfro, her dear, dear friend who posted on his facebook her wistful goodbye. Why weren't they helping with this intervention?

She still doesn't believe he killed Natalee, well by continuing to deny it, just makes me think Paulus was even more involved !!!

Cry me a river Anita, I do not feel sorry for this mother who had warning after warning after warning sign long before..........

Does anyone know if the Netherlands allows you to have a person committed to a psych hospital if they are a danger to themselves or someone else even if you're an adult.

My hubby were able to finally get my SIL admitted into a psych hospital when she was 24 years old.
She was inpatient for about 6 weeks.......she was a danger to herself and society.
She is 5' 10" and at the time weighed only 92 lbs. She is bi-polar and was in manic phase. She decided one day to go to Atlantic City/Ocean City NJ to sunbathe and gamble. She was staying in a rent-a-room for about $30/day. IIRC the 3rd day we got a phone call from LE that she had been in 7 (yes SEVEN) fender bender car accidents in those 3 days. Could we please come and get her......this is just one of the many crazy things that happened within about 1 months time......We called the psych hospital in Phili. and spoke to doctor, and he said bring her in. She had no say in it even though she was over 18 yrs old.
My point being if the laws are similar in the Netherlands, Anita should and could have had Joran committed involuntarily. There was more than enough evidence of him being a danger to himself and to others.

If the laws are different in the Netherlands, then Anita's hands were tied.
Does Aruba have a psych center or hospital? I believe she could have had him committed somewhere, even in the US if she was really worried or believed he was truly mentally ill.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 11:12:33 AM
He was guilty Nikki. Guilt can do strange things to a person.
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 11:13:57 AM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 11:16:43 AM
SunnyinTx,
There are no crazy people in Aruba. It is One Happy Island.
Bwa haaaahaaaahaaa
He was supposed to attend college in the USA, thank god that never happened. I don't know why he couldn't be admitted in NL, they certainly had enough on him to commit him.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 11:18:52 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

What if he attacked her when they first walked in the room from behind.  He hit her to make her unconscious and then did the rest.  It was said he strangeled her with his shirt.  So this means she wasn't dead when her neck was broken.

I thought he strangled her with his hands and suffocated her with his shirt after throwing her on the floor and seeing she was still breathing???   

You are probably right Sunny.  I knew the shirt was involved.  But what I was saying is that he hit her hard and broke her neck.

I also feel if there was no DNA or scratch marks on Joran that Stephany was covering up so he wouldn't harm her any more.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 11:19:48 AM
...the person who would have stood in the way of him being committed had to be ANITA. she would not admit that he had a problem...what if he "confessed" in treatment....what a story that would have been. I see Anita as the reason he never got the help he needed. Send him to college, here, there, everywhere else...
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 11:20:42 AM
Good morning Monkeys and thank you for all of the latest info on Urine!  A friend in Peru sent us this translated newspaper article.  I hope this link works.  http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://peru21.pe/noticia/491210/van-der-sloot-no-ira-penal-lurigancho&rurl=translate.google.com

Thanks Sharon for posting this with the translation.

This article states Joran met Stephany on Friday, the 28th and they agreed to meet on the 30th. If that is true then I think this will support a measure of premeditation, and certainly enough time for Joran to ask around the casino about her or google and learn she might be a viable source for money.

As for Anita's chest beating in that article, IF she was truly committed to getting Joran psychiatric help then why didn't she get godfather Stratten to help????? What about Renfro, her dear, dear friend who posted on his facebook her wistful goodbye. Why weren't they helping with this intervention?

She still doesn't believe he killed Natalee, well by continuing to deny it, just makes me think Paulus was even more involved !!!

Cry me a river Anita, I do not feel sorry for this mother who had warning after warning after warning sign long before..........

Does anyone know if the Netherlands allows you to have a person committed to a psych hospital if they are a danger to themselves or someone else even if you're an adult.

My hubby were able to finally get my SIL admitted into a psych hospital when she was 24 years old.
She was inpatient for about 6 weeks.......she was a danger to herself and society.
She is 5' 10" and at the time weighed only 92 lbs. She is bi-polar and was in manic phase. She decided one day to go to Atlantic City/Ocean City NJ to sunbathe and gamble. She was staying in a rent-a-room for about $30/day. IIRC the 3rd day we got a phone call from LE that she had been in 7 (yes SEVEN) fender bender car accidents in those 3 days. Could we please come and get her......this is just one of the many crazy things that happened within about 1 months time......We called the psych hospital in Phili. and spoke to doctor, and he said bring her in. She had no say in it even though she was over 18 yrs old.
My point being if the laws are similar in the Netherlands, Anita should and could have had Joran committed involuntarily. There was more than enough evidence of him being a danger to himself and to others.

If the laws are different in the Netherlands, then Anita's hands were tied.
Does Aruba have a psych center or hospital? I believe she could have had him committed somewhere, even in the US if she was really worried or believed he was truly mentally ill.


Yes, in the NL you can have someone admitted to a psych hospital if they're a danger to themselves or society. I don't think Joran met those requirements (yet).
Otherwise you can only be admitted on a voluntary basis.
So: Joran probably told Anita he agreed to being admitted, of course he was telling a lie and instead hopped on a plane to Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 11:21:20 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

The walls of the room are tiled according to one of Greta's segments while she was in Peru, so it's conceiveable that his slamming Stephany into the wall during his attack on her could surely have snapped her neck.  After all, he was so brutal, one of her eyeballs became dis-lodged.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 11:23:46 AM
Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?


I think he was paranoid but only because he made a lot of enemies.  No one was helping Joran.  He needed money and he was emailing at least two people the night before Stephany was killed asking for money for tickets home.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 11:24:16 AM
Jo-Ann,
I think he met and exceeded those requirements but the Sloots saw his admission into a mental hospital as a liability after all the lies about how normal he "is".
Anita probably shot it down.
IMHO
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 11:28:30 AM
Jo-Ann,
I think he met and exceeded those requirements but the Sloots saw his admission into a mental hospital as a liability after all the lies about how normal he "is".
Anita probably shot it down.
IMHO
S

I agree.  He was getting treatment before Natalee.  IMO, he murdered Natalee and now he has murdered Stephany.  He should have been either institutionalized after Natalee or prosecuted and in jail.  Anita and Paulus did nothing but ENABLE Joran throughout his life.  Enabled and made excuses for his psychiatric problems and uncontrollable rage.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 11:29:49 AM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

Sunny I think Anita is communicating with Van der Straaten because he mentioned something like this for Joran a long time ago.  I would bet any amount of money that Karin Janssen is also helping in the Netherlands.

These two individuals were responsible for the coverup in Aruba.

Anita has plenty of help and money.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 11:29:55 AM
Jo-Ann,
I think he met and exceeded those requirements but the Sloots saw his admission into a mental hospital as a liability after all the lies about how normal he "is".
Anita probably shot it down.
IMHO
S

Being a danger to yourself and society only applies to current events, not things that happened in the past. I don't think there was an acute reason for him to be admitted. That's an important requirement - the acuteness.
If he didn't want to be admitted and Anita and/or a doctor did, they would've had to have a court order.
And I don't think any court would've given that, because there was no acute reason.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 11:31:48 AM
Jo-Ann,
I think he met and exceeded those requirements but the Sloots saw his admission into a mental hospital as a liability after all the lies about how normal he "is".
Anita probably shot it down.
IMHO
S

I agree.  He was getting treatment before Natalee.  IMO, he murdered Natalee and now he has murdered Stephany.  He should have been either institutionalized after Natalee or prosecuted and in jail.  Anita and Paulus did nothing but ENABLE Joran throughout his life.  Enabled and made excuses for his psychiatric problems and uncontrollable rage.

Said well-and I agree.  Anita trying to put a halo around her head as well as ignoring plain old simple facts, is sickening. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

Sunny I think Anita is communicating with Van der Straaten because he mentioned something like this for Joran a long time ago.  I would bet any amount of money that Karin Janssen is also helping in the Netherlands.

These two individuals were responsible for the coverup in Aruba.

Anita has plenty of help and money.

Oh-good point!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 11:33:01 AM
Thanks Klass,
you have no idea how much I respect your opinion...truly.
And to all of you other wonderful monkeys, keep me thinkin, I love the brain juice!
and to the dearly departed, we discuss your cases keeping in mind you are beautiful souls and mean no disrespect in combing over the very horrific details surrounding your departure.
I leave to light candles in my home, again, for the sweet ladies who brought us here.
Love, Selena



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 11:34:22 AM
Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?


I think he was paranoid but only because he made a lot of enemies.  No one was helping Joran.  He needed money and he was emailing at least two people the night before Stephany was killed asking for money for tickets home.


And that's why he decided to rob her.  Premeditated robbery.  Maybe he already borrowed some money from her and pretended he was going to pay her back if she would come to his room. 

Remember he talked about getting a suitcase and removing her body.  But he didn't get enough money from robbing her to buy a ticket AND pay his hotel bill and they would see him leaving with a large suitcase and demand payment.  He was hoping she had more money on her than she actually did when he killed her.

JMO and theory.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 11:41:14 AM
Jo-An & Buckeye ... thank you!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 11:41:19 AM
Van der straaten offering Joran admitance into a mental hospital has always confirmed his guilt in killing Natalee to me.  I mean, why would Uncle Jan think Joran was so crazy if he hadn't done something pretty drastic.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 19, 2010, 11:45:47 AM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?


I dont think they did the recreation yet and I doubt they will release the info that would let us figure this out until afterwards.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 11:49:45 AM
If it is true that Paulus' family looked down on Anita and thought he married beneath himself because of her past, perhaps that played into her extreme denial.  She needed to convince herself she was such an excellent mother.  Remember they didn't get married until Joran was already 2 yo and Val was weell on the way.

Maybe admitting Joran was totally defective was to Anita also admitting that she was also unworthy.  There was just too much bragging about Joran and how smart he was in the beginning.  He's about dull/normal at best but to hear his supporters, Joran was some kind of genius.  Well, maybe he is by Aruban standards but by the rest of the world he just isn't.

Anita didn't want to prove the Sloot clan had been right about her all along.

Just a thought.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 11:51:19 AM
The massive coverup, the throwing of two innocent security guards to the wolves, and the persecution of Natalee's family, etc. etc, really cannot be justified by this latest "Joran has contracted mental illness" spin, imo.   That's nuts.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 11:53:28 AM
If it is true that Paulus' family looked down on Anita and thought he married beneath himself because of her past, perhaps that played into her extreme denial.  She needed to convince herself she was such an excellent mother.  Remember they didn't get married until Joran was already 2 yo and Val was weell on the way.

Maybe admitting Joran was totally defective was to Anita also admitting that she was also unworthy.  There was just too much bragging about Joran and how smart he was in the beginning.  He's about dull/normal at best but to hear his supporters, Joran was some kind of genius.  Well, maybe he is by Aruban standards but by the rest of the world he just isn't.

Anita didn't want to prove the Sloot clan had been right about her all along.

Just a thought.



Makes sense to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 11:56:21 AM
The massive coverup, the throwing of two innocent security guards to the wolves, and the persecution of Natalee's family, etc. etc, really cannot be justified by this latest "Joran has contracted mental illness" spin, imo.   That's nuts.

It is nuts Ono but they are working every angle.

They don't care what we believe.  They are going to throw out anything that sticks to the wall.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 11:58:07 AM
If it is true that Paulus' family looked down on Anita and thought he married beneath himself because of her past, perhaps that played into her extreme denial.  She needed to convince herself she was such an excellent mother.  Remember they didn't get married until Joran was already 2 yo and Val was weell on the way.

Maybe admitting Joran was totally defective was to Anita also admitting that she was also unworthy.  There was just too much bragging about Joran and how smart he was in the beginning.  He's about dull/normal at best but to hear his supporters, Joran was some kind of genius.  Well, maybe he is by Aruban standards but by the rest of the world he just isn't.

Anita didn't want to prove the Sloot clan had been right about her all along.

Just a thought.



Out of three children she has raised it seems that there is only one with a promising future.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 19, 2010, 12:01:18 PM
He broke her neck with his bare hands...it was reported that no tennis racquet or baseball bat was used in the killing. As many bruises as she had, I wouldn't be surprised if he even stomped on her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 12:02:19 PM
The massive coverup, the throwing of two innocent security guards to the wolves, and the persecution of Natalee's family, etc. etc, really cannot be justified by this latest "Joran has contracted mental illness" spin, imo.   That's nuts.

It is nuts Ono but they are working every angle.

They don't care what we believe.  They are going to throw out anything that sticks to the wall.

...just as they have always done.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 12:03:21 PM
Posted at RU:

fierljepper  Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:35 am         

In the Holloway case there wasn´t any legal ground to convict Joran or hold him in prison any longer for interrogation. He therefore remained Innocent since there simply was no Evidence that could Prove him Guilty.

However I am more and more skewed towards seeing Joran as a cold blooded murderer in the Holloways case as well. He is true wolf in sheep's clothes. A very nice and friendly sheep, with a very ugly and evil wolf hidden inside. Just consider all the `wolvy` things he has done after the Holloway case:

* Telling many different stories to ALE about what happened. Obvious lies in all of them.
* Falsely incriminating the Kalpoes who had been loyal friends and they backed him in the HI lie (and he ruined their lives as a reward)
* Falsely incriminating his own father (phone in prison story) and the recorded and clearly false audio tape bought by Greta.
* Manipulating Greta so well with his charms that even she lost all her "journalistic" criticism and started to believe him for a moment.
* Going on national TV in the US (a Lion's den for him) and giving the interview to ABC telling about his innocence.
* Almost being caught for women trafficking in Thailand.
* Exortion of the Holloway family for money (via JQK)
* Throwing wine in DeVries' face on Dutch National TV.
* Trying to manipulate the lie detector in the Terror Jaap show. And getting very angry when he was caught.
* Selling a bullshit story for money to Terror Jaap.

This guy was already playing poker at a very young age and cheated (his own words) on all the girlfriends he had. And he got away with all of that. His girlfriends are even not negative today and tell on TV that he was such a nice and warm person.

Joran has learned to mitigate any adverse effects of all his anger explosions, by getting better and better in his lies. Until he hit the wall big time in Peru. But look how he behaves now. He seems like a very nice polite guy. One to almost feel sorry for. But if you peel the skins of this nicely looking gentleman onion you could also see:

* he consciously tried to cover up a murder (but got caught on camera)
* he blames HER for starting to hit him first. He makes it sound like self defense.
* he doesn´t show a single bit of respect for Stephany on the videos.
* he did consider disposing of her body (but he couldn't see a feasible way)
* he didn't just turn himself in immediately after it happened.
* he tried to flee out of the country.
* he did steal her money
* he immediately incriminates others (like the Taxi drivers that transported him)
* he didn't cry or show emotions or regret for a single moment. Not even a single tear (but maybe he kept this for the prison).
* he immediately makes new friends in prison and starts playing poker with them.
* it all happens at exactly the same day and time as 5 years ago.

I therefore was very pleased to read in the Telegraaf this morning that Anita has decided to pull her hands of him. She doesn't even want to personally meet him in Peru prison anymore. And that´s a big step for a mother who has probably been closer to him than anybody else.

´(...)I can't cry for Joran as I did for Paul, or as I want to. I can't get to the grieving part (...)`


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: OneHappyChica on June 19, 2010, 12:04:06 PM
Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?


I think he was paranoid but only because he made a lot of enemies.  No one was helping Joran.  He needed money and he was emailing at least two people the night before Stephany was killed asking for money for tickets home.


And that's why he decided to rob her.  Premeditated robbery.  Maybe he already borrowed some money from her and pretended he was going to pay her back if she would come to his room. 

Remember he talked about getting a suitcase and removing her body.  But he didn't get enough money from robbing her to buy a ticket AND pay his hotel bill and they would see him leaving with a large suitcase and demand payment.  He was hoping she had more money on her than she actually did when he killed her.

JMO and theory.

Rather than being haunted or stressed (related to HIS actions), I think playing the Natalee card was part of Joran's sick and twisted mother manipulation game (oh mommy, I did no wrong and these people continue to torment me). Plus, Natalee was at the forefront of his thinking. He was desperate for cash (sadly, Natalee has come to represent earnings in his world) even though he recently extorted $25k from Beth. Joran likes to throw others into the mix and he keeps it in pairs (two robbers, two security guards). Joran tried to plant seeds for an alibi. Thankfully, surveillance is a wonderful modern day tool that destroyed his original plot!

Anna, your theory is strong. Casino surveillance footage will demonstrate if there was a tableside loan made to Joran by Stephany. Table actions are keenly monitored as theft (especially employee-related theft) poses the biggest financial threat to casinos. Robbery may have been Joran's sole intention. However, due to his track record, I wouldn't be surprised if sexual intentions were present as well (either primary or secondary). His hotel costs weren't excessive. I tend to believe he neglected to pay his bill not because of financial constraints...rather, he was attempting to buy time in an effort to secure himself in a safe zone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:05:28 PM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

IIRC there was no DNA on the tennis racquet.....I don't believe it was used in her murder.  In fact, joran has admitted strangling her and suffocating her when he realized she was not dead from the strangling.

And the broken neck?

It was originally reported that he may have banged her head agains tthe solid wooden bedframe.  At one point Joran said he threw her to the floor.  He also said he held her by the neck and hit her.

So I guess it is not known exactly what he did as yet.  But it is not believed that any weapon was used.  He did it all with his bare hands including beating her eyes out of the sockets.

I think it was Jinasaurus but I could be mistaken who said they were able to re-create the scene without Joran's help and could tell from where she was hit and how and with what force by the blood spatters, etc.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:08:47 PM
hi can!
Jo-Ann, The forensics will show which injuries were sustained while her heart was still beating ( blood flowing) and the position of death will show from the coloration of her body from livor mortis. ( collection of blood/capillary action/discoloration as the body breaks down tissues, etc). I feel that he repeatedly beat her as she was unconscious, but still alive to produce a final death, overkill, if you will, after the first RAGE based strike, which may have been the nose ( blood still flowing ). He won't admit to this of course, or he "blacks out" in rage/thrill of the moment. (< poor choice of words, but I feel this characterizes that kind of violence with JVDS)
IMHO
Selena
Waving hello to Selena.  Good seeing you.  When server up to full speed, "can we talk?" (quoting one of my favorite comics) LOL.  Have a good weekend and that is good information.  I heard some "expert" say that on TV but you said it so much better.  Ciao.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:10:11 PM
Has this been discussed yet?

It was said that Stephany broke her neck. And that the tennis racket was used as a weapon.

Is Joran left or right handed? And where was Stephany hit in her neck: at her right side or at her left side?
In other words: did he attack her from behind or while he was facing her?
I have the feeling that he wanted to rob her and premeditated her killing. And that because of that attacked her from behind - maybe while she was playing poker or looking in his laptop.

Anybody can answer that?

What if he attacked her when they first walked in the room from behind.  He hit her to make her unconscious and then did the rest.  It was said he strangeled her with his shirt.  So this means she wasn't dead when her neck was broken.

I thought he strangled her with his hands and suffocated her with his shirt after throwing her on the floor and seeing she was still breathing???   

I wonder if he has some kind of sexual perversion and his only (hrumph) uh, uh, uh, (???) is by killing someone, that it turns him on and off.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:10:58 PM
Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?


What a frigging liar he is.  I bet that old bag make that up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:12:00 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:12:30 PM
...the person who would have stood in the way of him being committed had to be ANITA. she would not admit that he had a problem...what if he "confessed" in treatment....what a story that would have been. I see Anita as the reason he never got the help he needed. Send him to college, here, there, everywhere else...
S

AMEN, AMEN, SING IT, SISTER, SING IT.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:14:26 PM
Jo-Ann,
I think he met and exceeded those requirements but the Sloots saw his admission into a mental hospital as a liability after all the lies about how normal he "is".
Anita probably shot it down.
IMHO
S

If they admitted he was kukoo for koko puffs, they could not parade him out and talk about what a genius he was and how many scholarships he had received and what a good boy he is and how he is a tennis star, a soccer star, a mensa, and on and on.  These F88888s did not want to admit they had willingly, wittingly raised a monster in whose vices they aided and abetted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 12:16:41 PM
Interview with Anita van der Sloot - De Telegraaf - June 19th 2010

The actual interview:

Target

..... It then became clear that Joran had been a target for an FBI-operation in Aruba. "I thought it was strange that the attorney for the Holloways was on the island. I now believe that Joran might have done something to Stephany in Peru. Maybe an act of rage? I don't know. I'm very saddened that that businessman Flores lost his daughter, and I my son. That's the way it feels like." .....



Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF DUTCH SUSPECT: It's extremely tough. He's in custody now for 13, 14 days, I think. I have lost count. And I love my child. I believe in him 200 percent. And it's just like a big nightmare. We don't know how to deal with it because you can't deal with it. We think about the family a lot because their life is a nightmare, too, but our life is a nightmare, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 12:17:05 PM
If it is true that Paulus' family looked down on Anita and thought he married beneath himself because of her past, perhaps that played into her extreme denial.  She needed to convince herself she was such an excellent mother.  Remember they didn't get married until Joran was already 2 yo and Val was weell on the way.

Maybe admitting Joran was totally defective was to Anita also admitting that she was also unworthy.  There was just too much bragging about Joran and how smart he was in the beginning.  He's about dull/normal at best but to hear his supporters, Joran was some kind of genius.  Well, maybe he is by Aruban standards but by the rest of the world he just isn't.

Anita didn't want to prove the Sloot clan had been right about her all along.

Just a thought.



Out of three children she has raised it seems that there is only one with a promising future.

And he probably has an ego that will sooner or later lead to his criminal behavior peaking.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 12:26:04 PM
Jo-Ann,
I think he met and exceeded those requirements but the Sloots saw his admission into a mental hospital as a liability after all the lies about how normal he "is".
Anita probably shot it down.
IMHO
S

Being a danger to yourself and society only applies to current events, not things that happened in the past. I don't think there was an acute reason for him to be admitted. That's an important requirement - the acuteness.
If he didn't want to be admitted and Anita and/or a doctor did, they would've had to have a court order.
And I don't think any court would've given that, because there was no acute reason.

The acute reason happened on May 30, 2005.
Court adjourned.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 12:33:39 PM
Godfather Van der Stratten suggested or implored that it be done- get treatment in a facility-( someone will correct me on this if it is all hearsay ).
It was ignored. It was ignored because of the implications after the fact, the circumstances of May 30, 2005. It killed Paul. It is and was and will be a menace, in the past, present, and future.

If he was to be admitted for a gambling problem, look to Paul. If it was for abusive behavior, look to Anita.
His own brothers are a testament to this before May 30, Natalee is a testament to this May 30, 2005, and Jorans own words and deeds since that date amplify the situation. Stephany did not need to die for anyone to agree there was a pre-existing dangerous condition.

Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 12:35:26 PM
On Monday a reconstruction of the crime will be done.

Does this mean the prosecution will present their reconstruction based on the evidence, to the judge?

Initially they intended to take Joran back to the room to do a reconstruction, but I think they decided against it based on security reasons and their own ability to piece it together based on the vast amount of crime scene evidence.

I still wish they had taken Joran back there. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 12:35:33 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 12:43:28 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

Yes, there is a Dutch law called Wbp, that protects this kind of private information.
This law covers a wide range; from direct marketing to medical information, to give just a few examples.
For instance; I work in HR and when an employee calls in sick, I am not allowed to ask them what their illness is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: the big hammer on June 19, 2010, 12:43:48 PM
Van Der Stratten Offer - June, 2005

canoworms said: "...Godfather Van der Stratten suggested or implored that it be done- get treatment in a facility-( someone will correct me on this if it is all hearsay )..."

I believe van der Stratten is on written record suggesting to the goon during polis interrogations on Aruba after Natalee's disappearance as saying to jvds that a "mental facility" is option -- 2 years.  The interrogation records and transcripts should still be available in the Important Case Documents thread here on SM.

I was evidently very clear to the Aruban Polis Chief that "something bad happened"  -  indeed.  

.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 12:45:27 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

Yes, there is a Dutch law called Wbp, that protects this kind of private information.
This law covers a wide range; from direct marketing to medical information, to give just a few examples.
For instance; I work in HR and when an employee calls in sick, I am not allowed to ask them what their illness is.

thanks Jo-An so there is no way to verify anita's story.....very convenient!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JA on June 19, 2010, 12:50:19 PM
We know he murdered Stephany.  We know he is a habitual liar.  We know he robbed her.

I still don't buy his story and think he is trying to use it as the defense that he was temporarily insane.  Think about it. . .We are assuming she did not go to his room to voluntarly have sex with him.  It wasn't her habit to do this, she was reported as to possibly being a lesbian, and she had her period.  So then she is looking at his computer undressed?

I think he friended her with his "charm."  She decided to go back to his room to either plan some online poker, or possibly have him pay her back from a loan.  She was already intoxicated, although we have no idea to what extent.  He drugs her with a date rape drug.  His intention is to rob her and as a side activity have sex with her.  She takes longer than he expects to pass out or render herself helpless.  They possibly play online poker, or he waits for her to pass out. he finds out that she doesn't have as much money as he thought on her, or she is unable to give him her pin. He forcibly starts to remove her clothes either while she is semi-conscious or she struggles.  It angers him that she has her period and wants oral sex.  She refuses in a haze and starts to put up a fight.  She may say something that angers him and he loses it.  Pent up frustration and anger from not having money, having friends refuse him loans, his family withdrawing from him, and not getting his way with Steapnhy sexually all cause him to take it out on Stephany.  When he sees what he has done, he gets even angrier, blaming Stephany for getting HIM into this situation (After all- if she had given him money and given him sex, he wouldn't have gotten mad.)  He then continues to lash out at her giving her the strangulaton and final blows.  He then cleans up and starts to make his plans.

Either that or he tried to force himself on her and found out she had her period.  Annoyed he goes to take a shower.  She wakes up in a semihaze, unsure of where she is and sees his laptop open.  She reaches over to take a look at it and sees some information she shouldn't.  he comes out fo the bathroom and she confronts him.  maybe she was goignt o lend him money earlier, but now she isn't.  She wants to leave.  joran wants money.  He tries to prevent her from getting dressed and is rough with her in an argement.  She becomes unconscious or semiconscious.  Joran is angry with her for his siuation, as int he earlier scenario.  He lashes out at her and causes her brutal beating and death.

But I don't think most really care why he did it.  He needs to pay for this murder, regardless.  Plain and simple.   It is not the American justice system.  This is Peru. get him a lawyer, give him his sentence, encarcerate him according to their law. 

Learn to cope with Peruvian prison life the best you can Joran.  It isn't about you. . . it is about justice for Stephany.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 12:51:41 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

Yes, there is a Dutch law called Wbp, that protects this kind of private information.
This law covers a wide range; from direct marketing to medical information, to give just a few examples.
For instance; I work in HR and when an employee calls in sick, I am not allowed to ask them what their illness is.

thanks Jo-An so there is no way to verify anita's story.....very convenient!!

Well, there was Terror Jaap; in one of his blogs he also mentioned that Joran was going into treatment and also start some sort of schooling/work project.
He also said that he and a confidant of Joran's tried for a year, to convince Joran to have himself admitted - but they failed. And that now finally he had said "yes" and a week later Stephany was killed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 12:52:36 PM
thanks Big Hammer,
FTR I worked with juveniles in rehabilitation, Department of Family and Children's Services for low incidence Abuse and Neglect cases, Mentally Handicapped ( Autism and Aspergers' disorder, Behavior disordered) sat on Tribunals for Alternative school disputes, worked with the County Jail to make sure youthful offenders received medications and medical reviews when incarcerated and sat through a trial with my own son when he was severely abused and made sure the offender was contained and received psychiatric help.
These are not opinions I offer about VDS. We have enough information available to see the problem and know it should have been addressed. The ball was dropped.
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 01:02:39 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

Yes, there is a Dutch law called Wbp, that protects this kind of private information.
This law covers a wide range; from direct marketing to medical information, to give just a few examples.
For instance; I work in HR and when an employee calls in sick, I am not allowed to ask them what their illness is.

thanks Jo-An so there is no way to verify anita's story.....very convenient!!

Well, there was Terror Jaap; in one of his blogs he also mentioned that Joran was going into treatment and also start some sort of schooling/work project.
He also said that he and a confidant of Joran's tried for a year, to convince Joran to have himself admitted - but they failed. And that now finally he had said "yes" and a week later Stephany was killed.


ooowwwwwweeeee I didn't think about Jaap.......I have a feeling all this might go in his favor .....scary thought!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MuffyBee on June 19, 2010, 01:11:04 PM
I think Joran kicked and stomped on both Natalee and Stephany.   And I think Joran may very well have struck Stephany in the head/face with his elbow and that may have been what caused damage to her eye/eyes.  Using the elbow for an attack is bone on bone.  Listen to the video, it explains this.  And it even mentions soft tissue near the eye.   In self defense classes, it's pointed out to students that the elbow makes a very, very good se;f defemse weapon, but of course in the case of Joran's attack on Stephany it was an offensive maneuver.

http://www.ehow.com/video_2368024_using-elbows-selfdefense-women.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 19, 2010, 01:14:06 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

Yes, there is a Dutch law called Wbp, that protects this kind of private information.
This law covers a wide range; from direct marketing to medical information, to give just a few examples.
For instance; I work in HR and when an employee calls in sick, I am not allowed to ask them what their illness is.

thanks Jo-An so there is no way to verify anita's story.....very convenient!!

Well, there was Terror Jaap; in one of his blogs he also mentioned that Joran was going into treatment and also start some sort of schooling/work project.
He also said that he and a confidant of Joran's tried for a year, to convince Joran to have himself admitted - but they failed. And that now finally he had said "yes" and a week later Stephany was killed.


ooowwwwwweeeee I didn't think about Jaap.......I have a feeling all this might go in his favor .....scary thought!


So (thinking outloud here)..does Peru make exception for someone being insane or temporary insanity? 
Somehow I doubt that they do..other then keep him in prison for the crime and give him meds. 

I am saying this because several states in the US have that same outcome....mine being one of them.  If you are found to be legally insane..it really doesn't matter..you do the crime you do the time.  They will have you see a psych once a month ..give you meds he suggests and that is it..you are still in the cell for life if you kill someone.  And no you do not get therapy sessions for murder.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 19, 2010, 01:19:46 PM
Wasn't he in a facility before, about two years ago in the NL ?
Then he went to Thailand ?
...
As far as the meida hounding him, etc, he courted the media because they paid him.
They paid the Sloots too in the NL This money just given to him just enabled him to continue the downward spiral of drinking, drugs and all the rest of it. He was under Anita's roof just before he went to Columbia and then Peru ( and in the casino every night with hs new friend, John Lugwig ) it's a bit late for her to be using the " sick"  excuse for him. The Holloways were under more stress than poor Joran and they did not exhibit any of these types of behaviour or become murderers and blame Joran. All of them have remained what they were in essential character.
..
Here in Canada, we have the mental illness defense, but the only recent case where this has been used successfully was in a previous mental illnesss where the person refused to take medication for a previous diagnosed paranoid schizoid illness. They were convicted of murder ( they asked to be executed, but we do not have such a thing ) and now are serving their time in a locked mental ward.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 01:19:57 PM

Well, there was Terror Jaap; in one of his blogs he also mentioned that Joran was going into treatment and also start some sort of schooling/work project.
He also said that he and a confidant of Joran's tried for a year, to convince Joran to have himself admitted - but they failed. And that now finally he had said "yes" and a week later Stephany was killed.


ooowwwwwweeeee I didn't think about Jaap.......I have a feeling all this might go in his favor .....scary thought!

Sunny and Jo-An

My thought process convinces me that Joran van der Sloot will deemed mentally incompetent and therefore cannot be held accountable for his actions pertaining to the death Stephany ... the death of Natalee as well as ... the exportion charges.  Treatment in the Netherlands will be where it is at.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but ....

Janet

+++++


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Pages 148/149:
  Anita tells us (Greta and Beth) all about Joran and what a good boy he is.  How smart he is.  I let her go on and on, as this gives me time to listen, look, access.  And as she continues, she begins to share with us about a difficult time they have had with him recently.  How he exibits oppositional defiance and is disrespectful to his mother.  How they are beginning to lose control of him as he sneaks out at night and comes and goes as he pleases.  After about thirty she concludes by telling us Joran is seeing a psychologist for his defiant behavior.


February 16, 2006

Summons and Complaint
Elizabeth Ann Twitty and Dave Edward Holloway
vs. Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot
.

14 Joran’s proclivities, at a young age, were known to both of his parents, Paulus Van der Sloot and wife, Anita.

15. As recently as May 2005, Joran was receiving psychological counselling for his problems.

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp5.html




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:22:56 PM
He is cold and calculating in the videos. I do not see anyone appearing to be insane so I wonder at what point, in the casino, in the custody of the cab drivers, chilean police, Peruvian guards, would they consider he was "insane" enough to murder someone unknowingly.

What about Anita's own admission that JVDS was being treated for " anger management",-2005- seeing " someone" and meditating, doing yoga...etc, what about the violent incidents cited ( throwing people through glass, off bridges, pet killing )? His trouble started way before this year.
 
Wasn't it scubajap that admitted he was seeing a psych ( if I remember correctly ). and then what? We saw pictures of him drunk and passed out, liquor everywhere ( his apartment or friends houses ) and he is living apart from his family on their property with no rules and no oversight.

He wasn't being supervised and he was still making trouble. Anita left for Holland and all hell breaks lose. The Sloots knew then he should have been in treatment...TerrorJaap didn't uncover anything, Anita did not hear of problems last week or two weeks prior. He was trashing apartments in Thailand- someone had to pay to get him out of there...Lord knows what else happened there to make him " sell his business".

Temporary insanity is a very convenient way of excusing his behavior that was rotten way before he met TerrorJaap
or DeVries.

IMHO
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 01:24:03 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

Yes, there is a Dutch law called Wbp, that protects this kind of private information.
This law covers a wide range; from direct marketing to medical information, to give just a few examples.
For instance; I work in HR and when an employee calls in sick, I am not allowed to ask them what their illness is.

thanks Jo-An so there is no way to verify anita's story.....very convenient!!

Well, there was Terror Jaap; in one of his blogs he also mentioned that Joran was going into treatment and also start some sort of schooling/work project.
He also said that he and a confidant of Joran's tried for a year, to convince Joran to have himself admitted - but they failed. And that now finally he had said "yes" and a week later Stephany was killed.


ooowwwwwweeeee I didn't think about Jaap.......I have a feeling all this might go in his favor .....scary thought!


So (thinking outloud here)..does Peru make exception for someone being insane or temporary insanity? 
Somehow I doubt that they do..other then keep him in prison for the crime and give him meds. 

I am saying this because several states in the US have that same outcome....mine being one of them.  If you are found to be legally insane..it really doesn't matter..you do the crime you do the time.  They will have you see a psych once a month ..give you meds he suggests and that is it..you are still in the cell for life if you kill someone.  And no you do not get therapy sessions for murder.


I think there's so much evidence that doesn't make him look insane or even temporarily insane.
For instance the Oscar winning piece of acting he did outside his hotel room with the empty coffee cups, right after he murdered her.
The fact that he fled to Chile, the fact that he told so many lies.
He was having coffee and cake next to his victim, contemplating what to do next.
I think/hope they see straight through his lies and conduct.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: OneHappyChica on June 19, 2010, 01:30:13 PM
Wasn't he in a facility before, about two years ago in the NL ?
Then he went to Thailand ? 

Confession
In early 2008, Mr Van Der Sloot again made headlines due to sensational footage broadcast in a television show by crime reporter Peter R de Vries. In a conversation with an associate of Mr De Vries - filmed in a car by a hidden camera - Joran confessed to being involved in Natalee Holloway's disappearance. “She was drunk, Patrick, but I thought, I’ll take her with me and f… her. We did it on the beach, but she suddenly started shaking. And then, nothing.” These were the words of an apparently detached Mr Van Der Sloot.

He said he then put her body in a boat and dumped her overboard out at sea. However, he later denied everything. Although TV sleuth Mr De Vries won an Emmy Award for his 'revelation', an Aruban judge said the statements made by Mr Van Der Sloot did not provide sufficient evidence to have him re-arrested. Put under pressure by a new police investigation, Mr Van Der Sloot agreed to voluntarily check into a psychiatric clinic, but ended up travelling to Thailand.


http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-van-der-sloot-a-treat-psychiatrists



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 01:32:14 PM
I am checking in on my "tea" breaks while getting ready for a family reunion on hubby's side ... a family reunion that will be held at our home tomorrow.  Out of town family who are staying at my sister-in-law's home in Vancouver will be the guests of honor.  Hubby is busy making lots of sushi rolls (norimaki) and ... I am cleaning.  Other than my famous carrot cake (Safeway) and Tim Horton's coffee ... hubby's sisters have taken care of all the food.  I am praying for good weather.  There will be about 50 in attendance.

Well ... eldest son, DIL and three year old grandson from Vancouver Island will be arriving shortly ... so I better get busy and make up their beds.  Papa has already set up Thomas Train.

Later, Janet
10:30 AM PT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 19, 2010, 01:33:22 PM
Wasn't he in a facility before, about two years ago in the NL ?
Then he went to Thailand ?
...
As far as the meida hounding him, etc, he courted the media because they paid him.
They paid the Sloots too in the NL This money just given to him just enabled him to continue the downward spiral of drinking, drugs and all the rest of it. He was under Anita's roof just before he went to Columbia and then Peru ( and in the casino every night with hs new friend, John Lugwig ) it's a bit late for her to be using the " sick"  excuse for him. The Holloways were under more stress than poor Joran and they did not exhibit any of these types of behaviour or become murderers and blame Joran. All of them have remained what they were in essential character.
..
Here in Canada, we have the mental illness defense, but the only recent case where this has been used successfully was in a previous mental illnesss where the person refused to take medication for a previous diagnosed paranoid schizoid illness. They were convicted of murder ( they asked to be executed, but we do not have such a thing ) and now are serving their time in a locked mental ward.


 YES REMEMBER     Jonathan555  or something loke that would post pictures


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:37:26 PM
Kat-
Wasn't he in a facility before, about two years ago in the NL ?
Then he went to Thailand ?
...
As far as the meida hounding him, etc, he courted the media because they paid him.
They paid the Sloots too in the NL This money just given to him just enabled him to continue the downward spiral of drinking, drugs and all the rest of it. He was under Anita's roof just before he went to Columbia and then Peru ( and in the casino every night with hs new friend, John Lugwig ) it's a bit late for her to be using the " sick"  excuse for him. The Holloways were under more stress than poor Joran and they did not exhibit any of these types of behaviour or become murderers and blame Joran. All of them have remained what they were in essential character.
..

YESYESYES.
I offer you a cookie.
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 01:39:42 PM
Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?


I think he was paranoid but only because he made a lot of enemies.  No one was helping Joran.  He needed money and he was emailing at least two people the night before Stephany was killed asking for money for tickets home.


If Joran was doing a lot of cocaine or some other form of speed, that would cause his paranoria.  I think
it has been reported that he was doing both.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:40:08 PM
Muffy Bee
"I think Joran kicked and stomped on both Natalee and Stephany.   And I think Joran may very well have struck Stephany in the head/face with his elbow and that may have been what caused damage to her eye/eyes.  Using the elbow for an attack is bone on bone. "

and it's a difficult maneuver when someone has their back to you while reading your email...
He lies.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 19, 2010, 01:40:10 PM
Kat-
Wasn't he in a facility before, about two years ago in the NL ?
Then he went to Thailand ?
...
As far as the meida hounding him, etc, he courted the media because they paid him.
They paid the Sloots too in the NL This money just given to him just enabled him to continue the downward spiral of drinking, drugs and all the rest of it. He was under Anita's roof just before he went to Columbia and then Peru ( and in the casino every night with hs new friend, John Lugwig ) it's a bit late for her to be using the " sick"  excuse for him. The Holloways were under more stress than poor Joran and they did not exhibit any of these types of behaviour or become murderers and blame Joran. All of them have remained what they were in essential character.
..

YESYESYES.
I offer you a cookie.
Selena

Den Dolder?? (sp?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:42:28 PM
wreck
Altrecht, Mental Health Institute, Division OFP, Den Dolder, BN, the Netherlands
this one?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:43:35 PM
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a916676910~db=all~jumptype=rss

note the references to the disorders.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 01:44:37 PM
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6996293/__Populariteit_naam_Joran_neem_flink_af__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

Google translation:

Sat June 19, 2010, 18:55

Name Popularity Joran pack plenty off

AMSTERDAM -  Joran's name is no longer popular in the Netherlands. The website of the Dutch Bank Distinguished Saturday confirmed a report on this in the NRC Handelsblad.


The name, in 1973 for the first time a Dutch child was given, reached its peak in 2006 when 124 boys were named. From that year took off in popularity. While in 2007 94 babies were given the name, there were only 8 in 2009.

The famous Dutch Joran is Joran van der Sloot. The now 22-year-old man suspected of the murder in 2010 on the 21-year-old Stephany Flores in Peru. In 2005 he was suspected of involvement in the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway in Aruba. He is now in the Peruvian Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima determined.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 19, 2010, 01:44:39 PM
wreck
Altrecht, Mental Health Institute, Division OFP, Den Dolder, BN, the Netherlands
this one?
  Yes that one


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 01:45:07 PM
Kat-
Wasn't he in a facility before, about two years ago in the NL ?
Then he went to Thailand ?
...
As far as the meida hounding him, etc, he courted the media because they paid him.
They paid the Sloots too in the NL This money just given to him just enabled him to continue the downward spiral of drinking, drugs and all the rest of it. He was under Anita's roof just before he went to Columbia and then Peru ( and in the casino every night with hs new friend, John Lugwig ) it's a bit late for her to be using the " sick"  excuse for him. The Holloways were under more stress than poor Joran and they did not exhibit any of these types of behaviour or become murderers and blame Joran. All of them have remained what they were in essential character.
..

YESYESYES.
I offer you a cookie.
Selena

Den Dolder?? (sp?)

Yes, Den Dolder has several psych hospitals.
Joran got into day care at the Altrecht clinic.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:45:42 PM
Admittedly he could have been seen for other reasons...Narcissism has been called out SO many times by sleuths.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 01:46:43 PM
Kat-
Wasn't he in a facility before, about two years ago in the NL ?
Then he went to Thailand ?
...
As far as the meida hounding him, etc, he courted the media because they paid him.
They paid the Sloots too in the NL This money just given to him just enabled him to continue the downward spiral of drinking, drugs and all the rest of it. He was under Anita's roof just before he went to Columbia and then Peru ( and in the casino every night with hs new friend, John Lugwig ) it's a bit late for her to be using the " sick"  excuse for him. The Holloways were under more stress than poor Joran and they did not exhibit any of these types of behaviour or become murderers and blame Joran. All of them have remained what they were in essential character.
..

YESYESYES.
I offer you a cookie.
Selena

Den Dolder?? (sp?)

And Johan would post pictures of the facility, but Joran was never a patient there.  He fled to Thailand instead.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:51:44 PM
Thanks Magnolia:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 01:52:00 PM
Anita says Joran told her he was being followed and he was robbed and two men showed him pictures of Natalee.

I don't believe this happened, but was he being haunted by Natalee's death? He knew the stress of Natalee's murder lead to his father's death. Was he paranoid something was going to happen to him next?


I think he was paranoid but only because he made a lot of enemies.  No one was helping Joran.  He needed money and he was emailing at least two people the night before Stephany was killed asking for money for tickets home.


If Joran was doing a lot of cocaine or some other form of speed, that would cause his paranoria.  I think
it has been reported that he was doing both.

Yes it would Magnolia.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 19, 2010, 01:53:45 PM
Yes, it was Johan who kept telling us he was in Den Dolder, yet all indications were that he was in Thailand.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:54:27 PM
Accepting $25,000 in blood money and getting a tip off that you need to scoot town before they get you would probably produce a bit of anxiety and paranoia, as well.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 19, 2010, 01:58:07 PM
He was out of money.
He was on the run. Looks like everything was closing in on him.
Stephany had money when she went into his room.
He had her money , id cards etc when he left the room and fled.
Where does crazy come into play ? Peru isn't going to go for the crazy defense even if they had such a thing. He is crazy and cunning like a fox. There is no way he is going to serve his time in the NL in an institution. His latest new bud, John Ludwig didn't say Joran was crazy, just that he gambled too much. Won big and then lost it all. Not a huge defense for anything, self inflicted stress. Toss in his drinking for years and years and you just have an unadjusted person who wants his own way and if he can't get it, takes it. Even if brutal force is involved. He must have been terrorizing Anita and Sebastian in that house for months.
Probably every prisoner in Canada, the US and Peru has had a tougher life than Joran.
Stephany didn't deserve to be beaten to death by him. He used his bare hands. Anyone who feels sorry for him is a different species than me. 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 19, 2010, 01:58:34 PM
I still haven't caught up reading but I haven't seen this yet, sorry if it is a repost.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-dead-man-says-ex-con-prison-expert


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 01:59:39 PM
He was out of money.
He was on the run. Looks like everything was closing in on him.
Stephany had money when she went into his room.
He had her money , id cards etc when he left the room and fled.
Where does crazy come into play ? Peru isn't going to go for the crazy defense even if they had such a thing. He is crazy and cunning like a fox. There is no way he is going to serve his time in the NL in an institution. His latest new bud, John Ludwig didn't say Joran was crazy, just that he gambled too much. Won big and then lost it all. Not a huge defense for anything, self inflicted stress. Toss in his drinking for years and years and you just have an unadjusted person who wants his own way and if he can't get it, takes it. Even if brutal force is involved. He must have been terrorizing Anita and Sebastian in that house for months.
Probably every prisoner in Canada, the US and Peru has had a tougher life than Joran.
Stephany didn't deserve to be beaten to death by him. He used his bare hands. Anyone who feels sorry for him is a different species than me. 
 

I love you
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 02:00:35 PM
Well, shoot, we ALL know that people who murder have a screw loose – it’s just not “normal” behavior. The details of why and how determine the appropriate form of justice.

Joran shows no remorse in either case, and attempted an elaborate alibi (Stephany) and participated in an elaborate cover-up (Natalee). He pointed fingers to others (thieves in Peru, security guards and Deepak in Aruba). He additionally fled the country after Stephany; that was not necessary in Aruba, which willingly enveloped him in loving arms for the sake of tourism.

In any event, in this country, the insanity defense rarely works, and I expect Peru has even less patience with it. “Heat of the moment” is more successful here, probably in Peru, but Joran blew that one when he attempted the alibi, and fled the country. If he has remorse, it is that he got caught.

Anita and The Netherlands (along with much of the world) may deplore Peru’s prisons, but they are what they are – before Joran killed Stephany. So far his accomodations are far better than most.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 19, 2010, 02:00:40 PM
June 19th, 2010 | Posted by JPerez
Matt Holloway Speaks out about Sister Natalee Holloway and Joran Van Der Sloot for the First Time

It has been five years since 18 year old Natalee Holloway went missing while she was on a graduation trip with fellow classmates to Aruba. The main suspect in her disappearance and expected murder has always been Dutch native Joran Van Der Sloot. Now with Joran Van Der Sloot behind bars after five year for a separate murder, Natalee’s family feels he is finally getting want he deserves. Matt Holloway, the younger brother of Natalee speaks out in his first interview.

In his interview Matt Holloway talks about how he does not believe that Joran Van Der Sloot will provide authorities any valuable or truthful evidence regarding the disappearance of his sister. When asked what he does believe, Matt states that the only truth he believes Van Der Sloot has spoken during the past five years is when Joran was caught on camera in an undercover sting talking about how Natalee suffered a seizure and that he [Van Der Sloot] not knowing what to do dump Natalee’s body into the ocean. “I feel like that was the truth,” Matt says. “It’s hard to talk about it, but I think he put her in the ocean. That would make the most sense to me.

Matt goes on to talk about how Joran formerly claimed that he either dumped Natalee into a swamp or buried her body under a house that was being built at the time. Matt Holloway states that he knew neither lie was true. Authorities verified that Natalee was not found at either site.

Toward the end of the interview Matt Holloways talks about how his family has come to terms with the fact that Natalee is gone and that she will never be coming back. Matt also talks about how sorry he is for the family of 21 year old Stephany Flores Ramirez, who was murdered on June 2nd of this year. Joran Van Der Sloot has been formally charged with the murder of Ramirez and is currently in jail awaiting trial in Peru.

Van Der Sloot is currently trying to offer authorities more information in disappearance of Natalee Holloway in hopes of a less severe sentence, for his involvement in the murder of Stephany Flores Ramirez. Matt comments, “He’s just trying to get a lighter sentence; Right now he just knows he’s pretty much screwed on murder.”

Regarding the whole situation Matt says that he is only wish was that the authorities had acted sooner but that he is glad Joran Van Der Sloot will be in jail for the remainder of his life.

Natalee Holloway went missing back in May of 2005; there has still been no body found and no closure for her family. Natalee’s parents Beth Holloway and David Holloway are still actively involved in the search of their daughter’s body and will continue to be until closure is found.
http://www.thenewsgals.com/matt-holloway-speaks-out-about-sister-natalee-holloway-and-joran-van-der-sloot-for-the-first-time/912/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 02:00:50 PM
If indeed Anita does not visit him in Peru, then maybe it will dawn on him he is truly alone and he'll get angry enough to spill all of the beans regarding Natalee...trouble is, if he doesn't provide some sort of provable info-no one will believe him.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 02:01:03 PM
Thank you littlelady, very astute commentary ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 02:02:10 PM
Well, shoot, we ALL know that people who murder have a screw loose – it’s just not “normal” behavior. The details of why and how determine the appropriate form of justice.

Joran shows no remorse in either case, and attempted an elaborate alibi (Stephany) and participated in an elaborate cover-up (Natalee). He pointed fingers to others (thieves in Peru, security guards and Deepak in Aruba). He additionally fled the country after Stephany; that was not necessary in Aruba, which willingly enveloped him in loving arms for the sake of tourism.

In any event, in this country, the insanity defense rarely works, and I expect Peru has even less patience with it. “Heat of the moment” is more successful here, probably in Peru, but Joran blew that one when he attempted the alibi, and fled the country. If he has remorse, it is that he got caught.

Anita and The Netherlands (along with much of the world) may deplore Peru’s prisons, but they are what they are – before Joran killed Stephany. So far his accomodations are far better than most.


Crazy like a fox!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 02:04:23 PM
He was out of money.
He was on the run. Looks like everything was closing in on him.
Stephany had money when she went into his room.
He had her money , id cards etc when he left the room and fled.
Where does crazy come into play ? Peru isn't going to go for the crazy defense even if they had such a thing. He is crazy and cunning like a fox. There is no way he is going to serve his time in the NL in an institution. His latest new bud, John Ludwig didn't say Joran was crazy, just that he gambled too much. Won big and then lost it all. Not a huge defense for anything, self inflicted stress. Toss in his drinking for years and years and you just have an unadjusted person who wants his own way and if he can't get it, takes it. Even if brutal force is involved. He must have been terrorizing Anita and Sebastian in that house for months.
Probably every prisoner in Canada, the US and Peru has had a tougher life than Joran.
Stephany didn't deserve to be beaten to death by him. He used his bare hands. Anyone who feels sorry for him is a different species than me. 
 

I agree with everything you said.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 19, 2010, 02:08:21 PM
Thank you littlelady, very astute commentary ;)

you betcha.  I just hope the Holloways get answers and Natalee back before anything happens to him.
Karma's a bitch ain't it Joran?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 02:09:05 PM
I am not familiar with the laws in The NL/Aruba re. commitment. It seems, however, that parents might be able to commit a minor child, which Joran was at the time - and as Jan VDS suggested.

HOWEVER – I think Paulus and Anita may have been boxed in. Committing him could be perceived as an admission of guilt in Natalee’s case. Catch-22.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 02:13:28 PM
I am not familiar with the laws in The NL/Aruba re. commitment. It seems, however, that parents might be able to commit a minor child, which Joran was at the time - and as Jan VDS suggested.

HOWEVER – I think Paulus and Anita may have been boxed in. Committing him could be perceived as an admission of guilt in Natalee’s case. Catch-22.


I think Paulus and Anita thought it would not be good on his resume'.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 02:17:44 PM
Searching around for the the Van der Straaten comment regarding Joran going to a mental institution.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

In Joran's translation of his book:

Page 156, June 13 informal talk with Jan van der Straaten.
Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after
lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He
said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help
you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not
have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental
institution. You only will have to tell the truth.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 19, 2010, 02:21:50 PM
Thank you canofworms, Selena and San.
I don't think that Peru is going to fall for any of this. There are no extradiiton treaties with the NL anyway. Even if they start working on one this minute, it won't happen in Joran's lifetime.
..
I want him to be treated well in Castro Castro. I want him to live to a ripe old age in custody. He has one poker chip left and that is where is Natalee. And he might use it after he is sentenced and all is lost. But it would have to take Aruba, Peru, NL and the USA and the FBI to come to some agreement. I don't see this happening until he is well into his sentence and begins to plot for better conditions elsewhere.
And, who knows, he is a survivor and he might end up running one of the " pirate ships " in the really bad prison. Anita and the rest of his supporters would have to bring him money.
ps
Why doesn't Charlie Rat be his lawyer, he could get a cerificate to practise in Peru. he could be the one who makes the trip and gives him cash.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 19, 2010, 02:22:37 PM
I am not familiar with the laws in The NL/Aruba re. commitment. It seems, however, that parents might be able to commit a minor child, which Joran was at the time - and as Jan VDS suggested.

HOWEVER – I think Paulus and Anita may have been boxed in. Committing him could be perceived as an admission of guilt in Natalee’s case. Catch-22.

He was a minor aged 17 with a screw loose. He could have been treated in a mental health clinic and be out in 6 months. They made a POOR decision. Now, 5 years later -- he will be DEAD within a year.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 19, 2010, 02:34:41 PM
Just watched 20/20 with Melody.

Melody - the love of Joran's life.
Melody shares birthday with Natalee -> Natalee ends up dead
Melody looks somewhat like Stephany -> Stephany ends up dead

Coincidence?
I think not.
Sounds to me like he never really got over Melody and subconsciously still "loved" her.

Or am I being paranoid? (http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/smiles/smiles_34.gif)

Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean someone is not out to get you.

  :-p



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 02:38:11 PM
Does the Netherland have anything like our Hippa Law?  I wonder if indeed arrangements had been made for the monster to go into a treatment program?  OR....is anita lying about this and trying to lay more ground work for an insanity plea? 

Please don't stone me....but at times, while reading this, I almost felt sorry for her.....but it was only momentarily.

BUMP...

What do you mean our HIPPA law?  HIPPA is concerned with privacy.

Exactly....I was wonder if it could be checked that he was supposedly going into some kind of treatment program..or were there laws to protect that information from being released

I understand, Sunny.  Yes.  That information is so private that even the names are changed in records except for a few people who are directly related to their care.   It is amazingly well protected, like with politicians' records, sometimes even kept in the office of administrators.  ;-0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 02:38:12 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0

Translation of the Natalee Holloway Case police report
Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot accuse each other
DIARIO Aruba
4/20/2006

ORANJESTAD (AAN)

D says to J: How do you feel Joran?
J says to D (in an upset tone): You had them arrest my father, my friend
D says to J (very calmly): That’s what I’m telling you, how do you feel?
J says to D: You know very well my father’s not involved
J says to D: I read your declaration, my friend.
D says to J: That’s bullshit.
J says to D: You lied, shit.
J says to D (very calmly): You know what happened to the girl, if you don’t know, then nothing happened to her.
J says to D: Then f**k you.
J says to D: What did you say that Freddy has to be detained?
D says to J: That Freddy has to say the truth.
J says to D: You know very well that Freddy told the truth.
S says to J: You’ll see, you’ll see.
D says to J: From the beginning, you could have avoided the matter of your dad.
D says to J: You know.
J says to D: What, where, how?
D says to J: That he wouldn’t have been detained.


Freddy has to tell the truth.  Freddy, one of Joran's best friends forever.  Kalpoes had to drop off Freddy's camera.  Wonder what Freddy had on his camera?  Freddy knows:

Freddy - 6/8/2010 - SouthBeach, Aruba

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Freddy060810.jpg)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 02:38:43 PM
I am not familiar with the laws in The NL/Aruba re. commitment. It seems, however, that parents might be able to commit a minor child, which Joran was at the time - and as Jan VDS suggested.

HOWEVER – I think Paulus and Anita may have been boxed in. Committing him could be perceived as an admission of guilt in Natalee’s case. Catch-22.

He was a minor aged 17 with a screw loose. He could have been treated in a mental health clinic and be out in 6 months. They made a POOR decision. Now, 5 years later -- he will be DEAD within a year.

ah... but instead they laughed and snickered. Nobody lifted a finger.

Reality will always catch up. It's like a 9 iron to the head when it hits.

I think Tiger Woods said that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 02:40:24 PM
Google Keywords:

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Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 02:40:40 PM
I am not familiar with the laws in The NL/Aruba re. commitment. It seems, however, that parents might be able to commit a minor child, which Joran was at the time - and as Jan VDS suggested.

HOWEVER – I think Paulus and Anita may have been boxed in. Committing him could be perceived as an admission of guilt in Natalee’s case. Catch-22.

He was a minor aged 17 with a screw loose. He could have been treated in a mental health clinic and be out in 6 months. They made a POOR decision. Now, 5 years later -- he will be DEAD within a year.

ah... but instead they laughed and snickered. Nobody lifted a finger.

Reality will always catch up. It's like a 9 iron to the head when it hits.

I think Tiger Woods said that.

Well, even worse is $25,000,000 for a quiet baby momma.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 02:40:56 PM
Whatever his mental condition was at the time he killed Natalee – it would not have improved by his endorsement by his family, friends, and all of Aruba.

Suck on that, Anita et al.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 03:00:07 PM
I seem to have run everybody off again ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 03:00:29 PM
Joran is where he belongs-in prison.  He murdered two [that we know of ], defenseless young women in cold blood.  He is a human rabid dog.  If someone kills him, then at least Joran will not live to muder again.   The reason he is what he is today is really not all that important, altho it is ineteresting to speculate.   I would like to see some apologies & real remorse from Anita for Natalee's & Stephany's distraught families and the suffering her son has caused.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 03:01:07 PM
**murder**


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 03:01:08 PM
THE INVOLVEMENT OF DEEPAK AND SATISH KALPOE

In his June 12, 2005 witness statement Freddy Armbatzis declares that Joran van der Sloot implicated Deepak and Satish Kalpoe in the events that encompassed the demise of Natalee Holloway.

_________

Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - June 11, 2005

To your question whether Joran told me what he had told Freddy, I can say the following. Joran told me that he had told Freddy the truth and the story that was made up. I know that he trusts Freddy more because they have known each other for a long time. If you go and talk to Freddy, he will tell you the made up story and maybe also the truth.  


Kalpoe v. McGraw, et al.
Case Number: BC3 63401

.
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend


Van der Sloot, Joran; Zvezdana Vukojevic (2007) (in Dutch). De zaak Natalee Holloway: mijn eigen verhaal over haar verdwijning op Aruba. Amsterdam: Sijthoff. ISBN 9789021800141. OCLC 150235828.

Freddy Arambatzis - Witness Statement - June 12, 2005

Page 160/161:


I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago. Joran and myself are both really into sports and that is how we became good friends.

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house. He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together. After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her. They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba. The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves. After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away. (....)


The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house.

After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
 
Translation Credit: Rammstein


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 03:06:31 PM


My thought process convinces me that Joran van der Sloot will deemed mentally incompetent and therefore cannot be held accountable for his actions pertaining to the death Stephany ... the death of Natalee as well as ... the extortion charges.  Treatment in the Netherlands will be where it is at.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but ....

Janet

+++++


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Pages 148/149:
  Anita tells us (Greta and Beth) all about Joran and what a good boy he is.  How smart he is.  I let her go on and on, as this gives me time to listen, look, access.  And as she continues, she begins to share with us about a difficult time they have had with him recently.  How he exibits oppositional defiance and is disrespectful to his mother.  How they are beginning to lose control of him as he sneaks out at night and comes and goes as he pleases.  After about thirty she concludes by telling us Joran is seeing a psychologist for his defiant behavior.


February 16, 2006

Summons and Complaint
Elizabeth Ann Twitty and Dave Edward Holloway
vs. Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot
.

14 Joran’s proclivities, at a young age, were known to both of his parents, Paulus Van der Sloot and wife, Anita.

15. As recently as May 2005, Joran was receiving psychological counselling for his problems.

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp5.html


Could the underlying documented accounts encompassing the above quotes compose part of a foundation that will deem that Joran van der Sloot will not be held accountable for the death of Natalee Holloway?

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 03:06:42 PM
Jonathan45 {said, quote:}

@msmarple ---- to your reply 278 [page 14] Natalee Case Discussion 840

My answer to your question: Dead Daddy P was not at home the night Natalee died.
There was one female witness who saw Paulus car returning to Montanja 19 at around 4.00am that night, but she couldn't recognize who was driving.

My 'bike' scenario still stands. Dead Daddy P stated he was asleep between 11.00pm and 6.00am. To cover up his real alibi. Ask the former hotelmanager and close friend from the Marriott.

* * *
Are you saying that Daddy P had an inrefutable, must-be-kept-secret alibi that night? (I am in no position to ask the former hotel manager and close friend from the Marriott ... )

Hummm. This would mean that Papa sneaked off before Joran sneaked off. Lots of 'splaining to do after that night, lol. "Would not have happened if mama had been home ... "

Where does the "bike" come in?

And Thank you for replying, Jonathan45


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: oldiebutgoodie on June 19, 2010, 03:13:07 PM
Well, shoot, we ALL know that people who murder have a screw loose – it’s just not “normal” behavior. The details of why and how determine the appropriate form of justice.

I do not know how the Peruvian legal system defines not-guilty-by-insanity but, here in the United States, you can be the craziest bedbug in the mattress, absolutely wackadoodle drooling at the mouth bedbug crazy, but if you knew at the moment you committed your crime that what you were doing was wrong (against the law), you are guilty, guilty, GUILTY.

Showing any forethought or planning is one indication that a criminal intended to do the wrong thing.

Another clue is showing consciousness of guilt after the fact. Did the criminal run way? That shows they knew they were going to get into trouble and that shows consciousness of guilt. If you had no awareness that you'd done something wrong, you would not need to run in a panic.

I'm just really surprised that Joran was so dumb and sloppy and did this heinous act in his own motel room, and left so much incriminating evidence behind. However, being a poor planner or even not having premeditated the murder is still no proof of not having actually done the crime.

He'll probably plead out to a lesser charge than first degree murder in the Peru case since his lawyers will most likely make a case the murder was not premeditated and was a spur of the moment killing.

I don't know how far his Daddy's mafia buddies from Aruba can reach to shield this guy but Daddy is dead now and can't apply any pressure to protect his son. Daddy knew a whole lot from his days as a lawyer protecting a pedophile ring of prominent Dutch politicians and movers and shakers. Then he had to pack up his whole family and skedaddle off to Aruba.

Maybe Joran can cry on the shoulder of the mafia boss who owned several Aruba casinos and extended a credit line to Joran when he was still a minor. But, I don't think Aruban mafia dons have the power to control the Peruvian legal system.

Joran will be in prison now for the rest of his life. How long that lasts remains to be seen.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:17:27 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0

Translation of the Natalee Holloway Case police report
Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot accuse each other
DIARIO Aruba
4/20/2006

ORANJESTAD (AAN)

D says to J: How do you feel Joran?
J says to D (in an upset tone): You had them arrest my father, my friend
D says to J (very calmly): That’s what I’m telling you, how do you feel?
J says to D: You know very well my father’s not involved
J says to D: I read your declaration, my friend.
D says to J: That’s bullshit.
J says to D: You lied, shit.
J says to D (very calmly): You know what happened to the girl, if you don’t know, then nothing happened to her.
J says to D: Then f**k you.
J says to D: What did you say that Freddy has to be detained?
D says to J: That Freddy has to say the truth.
J says to D: You know very well that Freddy told the truth.
S says to J: You’ll see, you’ll see.
D says to J: From the beginning, you could have avoided the matter of your dad.
D says to J: You know.
J says to D: What, where, how?
D says to J: That he wouldn’t have been detained.


Freddy has to tell the truth.  Freddy, one of Joran's best friends forever.  Kalpoes had to drop off Freddy's camera.  Wonder what Freddy had on his camera?  Freddy knows:

Freddy - 6/8/2010 - SouthBeach, Aruba

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Freddy060810.jpg)


Hi Klass.

His shirt looks like it says SCUMBAG.
Freddy Arembatzis-Zedan. And his mother had access to Bubali Sanctuary? She worked there, or had duties concerning the sanctuary? Am I remembering this correctly?
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 03:19:09 PM
Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wingnut on June 19, 2010, 03:21:15 PM
Jumping about 20 pages ahead, but here goes.

There is no way that Stephany's daddy is going to let Joran go anywhere to serve a more cushy sentence.  No way.  You can be sure that he is aware of what Peruvian prisons are like vs. the US or Netherlands.

I think her daddy has more input in this than we can even begin to conceive.  His political contacts (and there are many!) are not going to fail to heed his wishes, and I feel very much that he desires for Joran to have a long and tortuous stay in Peru.  I don't feel that anyone, anywhere, would be able to sway him.....except maybe Beth or Dave.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:25:24 PM
Jonathan45 {said, quote:}

@msmarple ---- to your reply 278 [page 14] Natalee Case Discussion 840

My answer to your question: Dead Daddy P was not at home the night Natalee died.
There was one female witness who saw Paulus car returning to Montanja 19 at around 4.00am that night, but she couldn't recognize who was driving.

My 'bike' scenario still stands. Dead Daddy P stated he was asleep between 11.00pm and 6.00am. To cover up his real alibi. Ask the former hotelmanager and close friend from the Marriott.

* * *
Are you saying that Daddy P had an inrefutable, must-be-kept-secret alibi that night? (I am in no position to ask the former hotel manager and close friend from the Marriott ... )

Hummm. This would mean that Papa sneaked off before Joran sneaked off. Lots of 'splaining to do after that night, lol. "Would not have happened if mama had been home ... "

Where does the "bike" come in?

And Thank you for replying, Jonathan45


" Swingers Club "...Paul used a bike as so not to alert his neighbors to sounds of car peeling into the driveway...I dunno where the bike comes in either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 03:27:57 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:29:01 PM
Google Keywords:

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Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 03:33:17 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Jo-An - thanks for all you do here.

So - The U.S. press is out of the "bidding wars" now? (Good luck with that with what's coming out of Peru.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:33:33 PM
Thanks Jo Ann,
Any intelligent human being in his shoes would probably realize what they are saying is on the record. I can hardly wait.  Must buy popcorn.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 03:36:30 PM
I've read Jonathon45 posts many times.  Not sure if was here or elsewhere.

He believes that Joran buried Natalee near his playground, his home, (cucunu sp), I believe is the word he uses.  Thinks he got on his bike w/Natalee and buried her nearby.  Possibly in that dump nearby full of trash, cars etc.  I believe a search was attempted there but was too dangerous.  This dump may be where he threw the dog he killed.

I hope I'm remembering this correctly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 03:39:15 PM

What we know about Joran’s behavior BEFORE he met Natalee --

* * *
{Thanks klaas - I remember that night well:}

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interesting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

* * *
{Sorry, lost quote attributes:}

Remember that Prison Warden {Freddy Madura, thanks San for the whole name} who told the NBC reporter that he had known the Van der Sloots since Joran was a toddler and he had always been a problem child.

{NBC interviewer:} Is it strange to see him in this environment? 

FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN:  Yes, strange in a way, in another way, not, because of his temperament.  When he doesn’t get his way, he gets very angry.  I know that before, that already he was a very angry person.
   
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9085888/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9085888/)

{Aruba judge later ordered this interview to be taken off the air - ooops, too late, it’s out there forever.}

* * *
{thanks Janet/aka Tamikosmom, who has EVERYTHING:}

February 16, 2006

Summons and Complaint
Elizabeth Ann Twitty and Dave Edward Holloway
vs. Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot.

14 Joran’s proclivities, at a young age, were known to both of his parents, Paulus Van der Sloot and wife, Anita.

15. As recently as May 2005, Joran was receiving psychological counseling for his problems.

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp5.html (http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp5.html)

* * *

{Jan VDS must have thought he could pull off a commitment for SOME reason:}

{sorry, lost quote attribuote:}

In Joran's translation of his book:

Page 156, June 13 informal talk with Jan van der Straaten.


Jan Van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental
institution. You only will have to tell the truth.

* * *


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:39:33 PM
Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:41:29 PM
Can , remember Dutchlady? She was a psychic/profiler of sorts. I don't know what happened to her, she was read many times on the thread. anyway, she was posting at that time. Try to look at her stuff.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:42:40 PM
Hey Ms Marple,
It was the TRUTH part that he couldn't comply with.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: the big hammer on June 19, 2010, 03:44:16 PM
The Bike

I believe it is Jonathan45's view that jvds is alone responsible for Natalee's death, as well as the hiding of her body. 

And that after he killed Natalee on the vds property, the goon used his bicycle to take Natalee's body to a place of hiding.  The contention rests on a review of the statements, coupled with the view that jvds, as a young child on Aruba would be uniquely aware of numerous potential hiding places which could very well be unknown to many.  As a limestone seamount, Aruba has numerous underground caves and vaults, owing to the frequently changing below-ground aquifers which which evolve and change, sometimes with the tides.  In one of this caverns, it would be possible certainly, to hide something in such a way as to never be found.

An example:  http://www.lago-colony.com/CAVES_IN_ARUBA_MOYER/caves_of_aruba.htm

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 03:47:49 PM
Well, shoot, we ALL know that people who murder have a screw loose – it’s just not “normal” behavior. The details of why and how determine the appropriate form of justice.

I do not know how the Peruvian legal system defines not-guilty-by-insanity but, here in the United States, you can be the craziest bedbug in the mattress, absolutely wackadoodle drooling at the mouth bedbug crazy, but if you knew at the moment you committed your crime that what you were doing was wrong (against the law), you are guilty, guilty, GUILTY.

Showing any forethought or planning is one indication that a criminal intended to do the wrong thing.

Another clue is showing consciousness of guilt after the fact. Did the criminal run way? That shows they knew they were going to get into trouble and that shows consciousness of guilt. If you had no awareness that you'd done something wrong, you would not need to run in a panic.

I'm just really surprised that Joran was so dumb and sloppy and did this heinous act in his own motel room, and left so much incriminating evidence behind. However, being a poor planner or even not having premeditated the murder is still no proof of not having actually done the crime.

He'll probably plead out to a lesser charge than first degree murder in the Peru case since his lawyers will most likely make a case the murder was not premeditated and was a spur of the moment killing.

I don't know how far his Daddy's mafia buddies from Aruba can reach to shield this guy but Daddy is dead now and can't apply any pressure to protect his son. Daddy knew a whole lot from his days as a lawyer protecting a pedophile ring of prominent Dutch politicians and movers and shakers. Then he had to pack up his whole family and skedaddle off to Aruba.

Maybe Joran can cry on the shoulder of the mafia boss who owned several Aruba casinos and extended a credit line to Joran when he was still a minor. But, I don't think Aruban mafia dons have the power to control the Peruvian legal system.

Joran will be in prison now for the rest of his life. How long that lasts remains to be seen.

oldiebutgoodie.  Great post. I hope there are no plea bargains in the Peruvian justice system although it seems clear that Anita wants to see Joran back in the Netherlands in a Mental Hospital.  imo




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wingnut on June 19, 2010, 03:47:55 PM
Now John Ludwick is saying he was friends with Joran for 2 1/2 months....earlier in the week it was 3 1/2 months.


Still trying to catch up here......

John Ludwick and Joran became Facebook friends somewhere between March 2nd and March 6th, so 2-1/2 months would be a lie.  I have the screen shots to prove it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:47:57 PM
I remember the triangluation of calls, and one to Paulus's supervisor-lawyer- or Steve Croes area, very early, JVDs asleep on the bus.
I wonder if that bike is in the pond at the quarry.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 03:48:20 PM
Hey Ms Marple,
It was the TRUTH part that he couldn't comply with.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
S

S - To be sure.

I would like to see interviews with these people now, just for giggles --

Jan Van der Stratten

Gerald Dompig ("Max deVries has been sighted in Brazil; American Insurance Company is investigating" - the man is a PIG, except that pigs are far better.)

Jorge Pesquera (who is in Palm Beach County, Florida, which ought to have its head examined)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 03:50:36 PM
Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s
Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:50:46 PM
hi oldie and wingnut1
I'm making cookies and running back and forth to read the thread. Multitasking.
agree oldie, and can't wait for the pearls to drop from his mouth....how much time has he had to think through every cockamamie excuse and go back to " I'm nuts".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:51:48 PM
Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s
Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.


the natives were throwing stones at them, or something or another. Ductchlady posted on that date.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 03:54:25 PM
Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s
Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.


the natives were throwing stones at them, or something or another. Ductchlady posted on that date.


That was the Moko pond and it has never been searched completely.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:55:12 PM
Hey Ms Marple,
It was the TRUTH part that he couldn't comply with.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
S

S - To be sure.

I would like to see interviews with these people now, just for giggles --

Jan Van der Stratten

Gerald Dompig ("Max deVries has been sighted in Brazil; American Insurance Company is investigating" - the man is a PIG, except that pigs are far better.)

Jorge Pesquera (who is in Palm Beach County, Florida, which ought to have its head examined)


someone can make the comic book- there are no more unbelievable characters as those you mention.
S
have a cookie.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 03:55:31 PM
Hey can,
Was it the quarry? With the pond? Wasn't Equusaearch harassed there?
s
Yes, that's right!  IIRC Tim said it was dangerous too search...sharp metal objects and the like.


the natives were throwing stones at them, or something or another. Ductchlady posted on that date.

Not sure what Dutchlady posted.
Jonathon45 is convinced that J buried Natalee near his childhood playing ground. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 03:56:48 PM
Sczhyte.
Now they'll all be at the quarry for a bon fire.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 19, 2010, 03:57:14 PM
Papa and Mama are off to the Greater Vancouver Zoo with three year old grandson while Mommy and Daddy do their own thing in town.  Believe me ... tt doesn't get better.

Thanks to all for all the updates, quotes and articles.  It is appreciated.

Janet
1:00 PM PT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wingnut on June 19, 2010, 03:58:52 PM
(http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/ss350/wingnut1234/Nat%20Stuff/JoranLudwickfriends.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 19, 2010, 03:59:06 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Thanks-appreciate it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 04:00:41 PM
Dutchlasy was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability.
Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs"
something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves.
she also thought Paul was having an affair that night.
check her out.
the thread is still there,


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 04:05:16 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Thanks Jo-An.
I posted earlier that I am concerned about reporters trying to interview Joran.  Particularly at this time before his trial begins. 

Joran will understand just how important he is to the Press -

I would rather see him ignored.

I asked earlier if the Peruvian LE would allow this?

Would appreciate any opinion.  tia




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 04:07:32 PM
Dutchlasy was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability.
Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs"
something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves.
she also thought Paul was having an affair that night.
check her out.
the thread is still there,

Dutchlady was an interesting read, but I always suspected she was a shill, much like Shango/Simian
and the four headed Capsloclwizard.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 04:07:41 PM
wing,...check out this one.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Liongnardo-Hugen/627414716
he likes Texas Hold EM, and has Asian friends.
Interesting.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 04:07:51 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Thanks Jo-An.....this will be interesting!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 04:08:55 PM
Dutchlasy was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability.
Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs"
something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves.
she also thought Paul was having an affair that night.
check her out.
the thread is still there,

Dutchlady was an interesting read, but I always suspected she was a shill, much like Shango/Simian
and the four headed Capsloclwizard.

Crikey....SNAKES! Thank you Magnolia. lol, four headed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 19, 2010, 04:10:59 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Thanks Jo-An.
I posted earlier that I am concerned about reporters trying to interview Joran.  Particularly at this time before his trial begins. 

Joran will understand just how important he is to the Press -

I would rather see him ignored.

I asked earlier if the Peruvian LE would allow this?

Would appreciate any opinion.  tia




Hi can.

This was written in De Telegraaf this morning (from Anita's interview, although this wasn't said by Anita but written by the reporters):

The director of Castro Castro yesterday tried to convince Joran van der Sloot to have an interview with CNN about the "excellent conditions in his cell" and him being treated well.
When Joran said no, he was taken out of his cell and reporters were given access to his cell. They were allowed to take pictures and shoot videos.


So the prison manager tried to use him for his own benefit.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 04:11:48 PM
(http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/ss350/wingnut1234/Nat%20Stuff/JoranLudwickfriends.jpg)

Wonder if Joran was trying to get to Brazil and Fabienne? 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/FabienneBrazil.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 04:12:11 PM
Dutchlasy was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability.
Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs"
something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves.
she also thought Paul was having an affair that night.
check her out.
the thread is still there,

Dutchlady was an interesting read, but I always suspected she was a shill, much like Shango/Simian
and the four headed Capsloclwizard.

Crikey....SNAKES! Thank you Magnolia. lol, four headed.

Four people posting under one nik....CapsLockWizard.
That is why we called it 4 headed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 04:13:17 PM
http://www.24ora.com/policial-mainmenu-8/18837-maria-dolores-vrolijk-haya-morto-den-cas-na-duartestraat.html

Papiamentu translation:

maria dolores vrolijk attain dead in cas at duartestraat

saturday, 19 june 2010 14:32

saturday afternoon owing to come into informacion by one caso sospechoso where one lady do not give sign by life. ambulance owing to go at the adres duartestraat 19 in the casnan by folk at north. ey paramediconan not can owing to haci mucho for her senjora. owing to ask presencia by one doctor y also police. recherche by north also owing to go at once because the first informe was doubt on the motibo by dead. hour cu doctor owing to arrive past owing to constata dead by maria dolores vrolijk naci at aruba 9 by november 1953. the family not was desea before attain yudanza by slachtofferhulp. according doctor the dead is natural. esey owing to take away all doubt by cualkier crimen. paz at her restonan y forza at the family. the family self owing to follow cu the proceso before notifica one cas funeral before come give they one hand cu the defunto.


She would have turned 57 in November...

There are many Vrolijk's in Aruba, I don't know if she is a relative of RV or not.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 04:18:12 PM
Four people posting under one nik....CapsLockWizard.
That is why we called it 4 headed.
thank you Magnolia, I recently found that out.
Still funny:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 04:19:12 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Thanks Jo-An.
I posted earlier that I am concerned about reporters trying to interview Joran.  Particularly at this time before his trial begins. 

Joran will understand just how important he is to the Press -

I would rather see him ignored.

I asked earlier if the Peruvian LE would allow this?

Would appreciate any opinion.  tia




Hi can.

This was written in De Telegraaf this morning (from Anita's interview, although this wasn't said by Anita but written by the reporters):

The director of Castro Castro yesterday tried to convince Joran van der Sloot to have an interview with CNN about the "excellent conditions in his cell" and him being treated well.
When Joran said no, he was taken out of his cell and reporters were given access to his cell. They were allowed to take pictures and shoot videos.


So the prison manager tried to use him for his own benefit.


Thanks Jo-An.  YES, I saw that this morning and if it's true...I don't like that either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 19, 2010, 04:20:08 PM
Life expectancy in Aruba is going down.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 04:23:11 PM
http://www.24ora.com/policial-mainmenu-8/18837-maria-dolores-vrolijk-haya-morto-den-cas-na-duartestraat.html

Papiamentu translation:

maria dolores vrolijk attain dead in cas at duartestraat

saturday, 19 june 2010 14:32

saturday afternoon owing to come into informacion by one caso sospechoso where one lady do not give sign by life. ambulance owing to go at the adres duartestraat 19 in the casnan by folk at north. ey paramediconan not can owing to haci mucho for her senjora. owing to ask presencia by one doctor y also police. recherche by north also owing to go at once because the first informe was doubt on the motibo by dead. hour cu doctor owing to arrive past owing to constata dead by maria dolores vrolijk naci at aruba 9 by november 1953. the family not was desea before attain yudanza by slachtofferhulp. according doctor the dead is natural. esey owing to take away all doubt by cualkier crimen. paz at her restonan y forza at the family. the family self owing to follow cu the proceso before notifica one cas funeral before come give they one hand cu the defunto.


She would have turned 57 in November...

There are many Vrolijk's in Aruba, I don't know if she is a relative of RV or not.

From the Shango thread:

if anyone goolge for Duetekom you will get 3 pdf files but inside the pdf, the name is not there. Google "Fiscal publico Frans Deutekom Aruba"

Try it


Hmm...Whats this all about Caps? I see this involves Paul Van Der Sloot as well..Is this a seperate case from the drivers license scandal where Paul is defending Mr.Vroljik on fake documents?

(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1585/slootartyp3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)



This is so funny, Bosshi wever Nephew at that time was detained for the Drivers License Gate. where the boy was selling the Drivers Licenses to who ever needed one, he setup an operation where he will have is sales boys do the marketing search for who ever need a driver license and then bring it to him where he and another girl where make them.

Now Lawyer Vander sloot defended the Nephew, and he walks after spending the 3 months waiting for the trial, but all the rest has fallen on some group of kids. Some how the Prosecuter presented more that 4000 pages of some sort of evidence against the kids and so the Booshi Nephew got away with it. Dompig should have to testified. Maria Vrolijk Also walked, The Prosecuter in the case was F.D.

Note: I have seen cases that are so strange that it does not make sense. butHow can you win if the country that allows Drug cafe as legal operating business with their twisted Laws handed down to a Prosecuter that do not speak the language to hand you a sentence, where when you have to talk to him, a translator is needed to translate what you are saying where most of the times the translation is wrong and in the ear of the Judge is sound that what you said is an agreement of guild and where he than hands you prison time. All depends who you are and who you know and not what you know.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 04:29:34 PM
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://www.facebook.com/note.php%3Fnote_id%3D178892858588&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhi9gwgfTAuu1ULCmbuPm27R7Xafww

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/MariaVrolijk2009.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 04:30:40 PM

elcomeceria had the story about Anita's interview yesterday; here are a few of the comments --

*
If your old lady is no way claiming that his son was wrong. This gringo thought he could kill and pass lanyard and Aruba because the body disappeared. Gringo you pelaste and ugly, they in jail and you stay here
*
Smokescreen
*
I think the breast is psychopathic as, then it is for her murder, she is the cause of the misfortune of his son, does not see reality, and still says that everyone is against him, a creature that killed pets safe cheered her mother ....
*
Poor lady, the same sense of blind mother.
*
His poor mother, good as discussed in reality to every mother her children are little angels but watch the news when they die gang members or criminals all die were good and did not kill a fly
*
unconditional mother's love is like a smokescreen, distracting, but reality is another, his son if he is a monster for killing two young girls it is too –
*

Hummm. Maria Vrolijk died. Very interesting. Two Vrolijks in as many weeks?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 04:34:10 PM
Looks like she was very active in Children's rights (if this is the same person)

http://www.derechonandimucha.org/?start=/pr/info1.php/currentlanguage=nl/modulecode=Info1/introshown=1/deeplink=1



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: twinkiesmom on June 19, 2010, 04:41:27 PM
The Bike

I believe it is Jonathan45's view that jvds is alone responsible for Natalee's death, as well as the hiding of her body. 

And that after he killed Natalee on the vds property, the goon used his bicycle to take Natalee's body to a place of hiding.  The contention rests on a review of the statements, coupled with the view that jvds, as a young child on Aruba would be uniquely aware of numerous potential hiding places which could very well be unknown to many.  As a limestone seamount, Aruba has numerous underground caves and vaults, owing to the frequently changing below-ground aquifers which which evolve and change, sometimes with the tides.  In one of this caverns, it would be possible certainly, to hide something in such a way as to never be found.

An example:  http://www.lago-colony.com/CAVES_IN_ARUBA_MOYER/caves_of_aruba.htm

.

I don't know why he would use his bike when Deepak's car was theoretically available and already incriminated with evidence.

If they had done this 20 times before, there was a system in place....That's why I think the Kalpoes were home in bed and Joran was with her at the beach for drop off.  I think they just omitted the part about bringing her to Joran's first.

If they did this 20 times before....Did the previous victims wake up at their hotels or on the beach?  Did they know they were assaulted or only suspect it?

Did Joran's rage come out because Paulus was involved (thereby explaining the quotes about  Your own father... and how it wouldn't have happened if Anita were there)?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 04:51:49 PM
Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.

I agree with almost everything you've said CBB. 
An expert on NG said it takes great strength and time for a neck in someone as young as Stefany to break.  The bones the cervical spine are so pliable.
At any moment from the first punch he could have chosen to stop. 

Anyway, I have a problem with a plan to kill on the 5th anniversary date.  I really do.  Where was the organization?   Why would he choose Stefany, knowing he would be seen with her on casino tapes? 
I believe he wanted Stefany sexually, and he wanted her money and when she resisted he killed her and ran in an attempt to save himself.

Joran could have chosen someone else to kill.  A lady of the night perhaps.  Someone who would not be missed right away, if his intention was to kill on the 30th May.

with respect and imho.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: yuknomenot on June 19, 2010, 05:01:16 PM
Joran said he was sick in the head when he was arrested and now Anita is running with the insanity defense, it can't be coincidental.  I'm beginning to wonder if on say May 11, Anita didn't sit Joran down for a heart-to-heart/alibi strategy session.  Probably something along the lines of "Ok, son, the evil Americans have tried to set you up again, forcing you to take some money against your will.  You should probably take a long holiday away from Aruba, but we do need to discuss something first.  The numbers are against you, it's certain you will be caught again after you kill some other girl.  When it happens you tell them you're sick in the head.  I will do the same, I've even set it up so that it will appear that you've an appointment for some in-patient treatment in a tough facility in Holland. Of course you don't have to get help, you don't need it, you just have a couple minor problems you will work through. Now if we both stick to the story, we'll quickly have you back home and living your life as you deserve to...free".  Anita knows everything, IMO, she's as deeply involved with every single one of his and his father's evil activities as they are, she forfeited her right to any sympathy from me the 2nd I saw her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 05:02:21 PM
Thanks Klaas!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 05:10:47 PM

To all the MONKEY DAD'S - Happy Fathers Day tomorrow.

God bless Dave and Mr. Flores and all Dad's who have lost their children.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 19, 2010, 05:15:52 PM
johan555 is was who I was talking about

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RVVYF5Pu5ccJ:scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Faction%3Dprofile%3Bu%3D3710%3Bsa%3DshowPosts+Johan555&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: the big hammer on June 19, 2010, 05:34:52 PM
Matchstick Men

canoworms writes: "...Dutchlady was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability. Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs" something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves..."

The phrase comes from a song by Brian & Michael: "And he left us matchstalk men and matchstalk cats and dogs. He left us kids on the corner of the street that were sparking clogs."

It's significance was this: Dutchlady researched and found that Paulus occasionally played in a marching band, and she found/saw records of songs that Paulus' band played.  One of them was this.  Based on this, she viewed the "matchstick men" as representing the hieroglyphs found in caves on Aruba -- as in the Fontein Cave -- and this buttressed her view that Natalee's place of resting was (and is) an underground cavern or vault.

.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 19, 2010, 05:35:57 PM
johan555 is was who I was talking about

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RVVYF5Pu5ccJ:scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Faction%3Dprofile%3Bu%3D3710%3Bsa%3DshowPosts+Johan555&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

HET ALTRECHT COMPLEX IN DEN DOLDER:
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/nr_1kopie.jpg?t=1207214772)

Noord kant :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Noordkantkopie.jpg?t=1207214877)

Zuidkant:
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/ZUIDKANTkopie.jpg?t=1207214948)

Gesloten afdeling :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/nr_2kopie.jpg?t=1207215019)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg370343#msg370343




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 05:38:49 PM
OMG

Texasmom


http://www.24ora.com/policial-mainmenu-8/18842-accidente-den-white-house-na-moko.html

Accidente den White House na Moko      Print       E-mail
Saturday, 19 June 2010 16:07
(http://www.24ora.com/cache/multithumb_thumbs/b.150.100.16777215.0...images.stories.news.2010.juni.juni19.fotomoko.JPG)


Un cliente cu a bay haci amor den White House Apartments situa na Moko 30 a haye den un accidente. No den camber, sino pafor ora cu ela bay reverse su auto. Den e maniobra e homber a dal den porta di e apartament. E empleada a bay atende cune riba e desgracia aki pero e homber a reacciona masha agresivo. Cu palabranan insultante el a menasa e empleada pa e habri e porta na bon sino e lo a basha e porta abou. Polisnan a tuma keho di e apartament y a keda di bay investiga e caso pa por pone e cliente paga pa e daño cometi. E motibo dicon e cliente a sali cu tanto rabia asina no ta conoci.


Through translator:

accidente in white house at moko

 print e-mail saturday, 19 june 2010 16:07 album.jpg

 one cliente cu owing to bay haci affection in white house apartments situa at moko 30 owing to haye in one accidente. not in camber, but abroad hour cu ela bay reverse her car. in the maniobra he owing to strike in door by the apartament. the empleada owing to bay atende cune on the desgracia here but he owing to reacciona very aggressive. cu words insultante past owing to menasa the empleada for her open the door at good but the will owing to pour the door below. polisnan did take complaint by the apartament y owing to remain by bay investiga the caso before can laydown the cliente pay for her damage cometi. the motibo dicon the cliente owing to depart cu tanto angry so do not conoci. album.jpg come across


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 19, 2010, 05:43:50 PM
johan555
Scared Monkey

Posts: 2943


          Re: Natalee Case Discussion #747 4/11 -
« Reply #262 on: April 13, 2008, 02:55:35 PM »   

I met this boy last week in Den Dolder ,his name is Amar   ( he is also from Aruba ) and he told me that he stays in "De WIER "  that is a semi closed unit  on the Altrecht complex .
He told me also that Joran is there also .They can go outside 1 hour a day .
 this is Amar:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 05:44:09 PM
Matchstick Men

canoworms writes: "...Dutchlady was using her forensics knowledge and psychological profiling as well as psychic ability. Her phrase was "Matchsticks and Matchsticks, Cats and dogs, On the streets, with wooden clogs" something like that...saying it was near rotting material, a dump, a place with water, where they burn materials,...dogs and cats were thrown in there. the clogs speak for themselves..."

The phrase comes from a song by Brian & Michael: "And he left us matchstalk men and matchstalk cats and dogs. He left us kids on the corner of the street that were sparking clogs."

It's significance was this: Dutchlady researched and found that Paulus occasionally played in a marching band, and she found/saw records of songs that Paulus' band played.  One of them was this.  Based on this, she viewed the "matchstick men" as representing the hieroglyphs found in caves on Aruba -- as in the Fontein Cave -- and this buttressed her view that Natalee's place of resting was (and is) an underground cavern or vault.

.




Joran and his friend Michael (the one who was seen with the belt around his neck), in a cave in Aruba.  Likely someplace they went to party.  This looks to be late 2004 or early 2005 prior to Natalee:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/joranandfriendcave.jpg)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 05:49:01 PM
Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.

I agree with almost everything you've said CBB.  
An expert on NG said it takes great strength and time for a neck in someone as young as Stefany to break.  The bones the cervical spine are so pliable.
At any moment from the first punch he could have chosen to stop.  

Anyway, I have a problem with a plan to kill on the 5th anniversary date.  I really do.  Where was the organization?   Why would he choose Stefany, knowing he would be seen with her on casino tapes?  
I believe he wanted Stefany sexually, and he wanted her money and when she resisted he killed her and ran in an attempt to save himself.

Joran could have chosen someone else to kill.  A lady of the night perhaps.  Someone who would not be missed right away, if his intention was to kill on the 30th May.

with respect and imho.


If they were to find a lady of the night dead would the news be as sensational?  This is what Joran wanted.  He wanted something that would make the news.  Like Klaas has said he did it out of spite.  The only difference is that Joran got caught.  JMO.

PREMEDITATED.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 06:05:00 PM
Granted, there are many hiding places for a body on Aruba, not to mention the ocean.

BUT - I continue to believe that Natalee’s remains are not any where recoverable.

Paulus said “No body, no case” within 24 hours of her disappearance – when it was barely news yet on Aruba. I don’t think he would have made such a statement unless he was certain that there would be no body.

(And how would he know there's no body? Ah, there's the rub.)

Again, I would dearly love to be wrong.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 06:15:57 PM
San said:
If they were to find a lady of the night dead would the news be as sensational?  This is what Joran wanted.  He wanted something that would make the news.  Like Klaas has said he did it out of spite.  The only difference is that Joran got caught.  JMO.

PREMEDITATED.

* * *
San - Do you think he wanted a murder that would "make the news" enough, to risk spending time in a Peruvian prison? He was taking one heck of a gamble with his own life.

I don't think the murder showed enough premeditation for that. He might be dumber than dirt, but planning to leave her in his hotel room, his own shirt on top of her ...

Robbery, maybe sex - yes, premeditated.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 06:21:34 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/vader.jpg)


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/loser.jpg)



I got him a tie this year! :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 06:23:53 PM
All killers think if they hide a body good enough it will never be found.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 06:24:43 PM
Has this been posted?

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/ruman-di-natalee-no-ta-kere-loke-joran-kier-papia-awor-di-%E2%80%9Caruba%E2%80%9D/

Ruman Di Natalee No Ta Kere Loke Joran Kier Papia Awor Di “ARUBA”

Publication: Diasabra, 19 Juni 2010. Categoria: General

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Matt Holloway a bisa cu lo mas importante awor ta pa Joran van der Sloot keda pa resto di su bida den prison!  Esey ta loke e ruman di Natalee, a declara den un entrevista cu People Magazine.

   E revista tabata na Aruba tambe.  Nan a busca contacto cu varios personahe cu den 2005 tabata involucra den e investigacion riba e isla.

   Algun periodista cu a bin bek Aruba, a keda sorprendi cu specificamente famia Kalpoe na un forma asombroso, a dicidi na “keda keto” y no papia nada!  Net awor cu e chens tey pa e famia mustra cu nan ta inocente, nan a opta pa keda keto.

   Segun Matt Holloway, e ta kere cu Joran no tin nada mas di bisa di e caso di Natalee, aunke awor den prison na Peru e ta yora y haci comosifuera cu e ta ‘cla pa papia”.

   E ta djis kere, cu Joran ta tratando di haya un sentencia mas leve.  Joran ta profundamente hinca den e asesinato di Stephany Flores, y kizas e kier usa un crimen pa negocia e otro.

    Kico Joran lo bay papia awor?  Ningun hende lo bay kere!  Aruba ya caba a fada di su mentiranan.  Anto ainda e mama ta bisa cu ta un ‘complot’ tin contra Joran?

   E recien extorsion riba famia Holloway mes ta un prueba di tur esaki.  Pero tog e famia ta kere cu e storia di Joran haci na TV Hulandes na 2008, unda el a bisa cu Natalee a muri riba beach, y cu hunto cu un amigo a bente den laman, lo ta esun berdad.

   Nan no ta kere cu Natalee ta dera den fundeshi di un cas of otro lugar.  Ya caba e famia a acepta cu Natalee no tey mas, y nan ta spera cu ningun hende mas pasa den mesun tragedia di perde un ser stima.

Through translator:

brother by natalee do not believe thing joran be willing to talk at present by “aruba” publication: saturday, 19 june 2010. categoria: general oranjestad (aan):

 matt holloway owing to say cu will more important at present is before joran van der sloot remain before remainder by her life in gaol! esey is thing the brother by natalee, owing to declara in one interview cu people magazine. the magazine was at aruba also. they owing to busca contacto cu several personahe cu in 2005 was involucra in the investigacion on the island. some journalist cu owing to come bek aruba, owing to remain sorprendi cu specificamente family kalpoe at one form amazing, owing to dicidi at “keda keto” y not talk nothing! just at present cu the chens tey for her family indicate cu they're inocente, they owing to opta before remain keto. according matt holloway, the is believe cu joran not have nothing more by say by the caso by natalee, although at present in gaol at peru the is cry y haci comosifuera cu the is ‘cla before papia”. the is exclusively believe, cu joran is tratando by attain one sentencia more leve. joran is profundamente hinca in the asesinato by stephany flores, y kizas the be willing to using one crimen before negocia the another. kico joran will bay talk at present? neither person will bay believe! aruba already come to anend owing to fada by her mentiranan. then still the mam is say cu is one ‘complot’ have contra joran? the recien extorsion on family holloway self is one proof by all this. but tog the family is believe cu the storia by joran haci at tv dutch at 2008, where past owing to say cu natalee owing to die on beach, y cu together cu one amigo owing to bente in sea, will is esun berdad. they do not believe cu natalee is bury in fundeshi by one cas or another lugar. already come to anend the family owing to acepta cu natalee not tey more, y they're wait for cu neither person more happen in same tragedy by lose one being love.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 06:30:03 PM
Ted Koppel's son died (May 31) - Just yesterday, June 18, the NYC Medical Examiner ruled that he died of an overdose.

"The New York City medical examiner's office said on Friday that 40-year-old Andrew Koppel died from a combination of alcohol, heroin, cocaine, painkillers and Levamisole, a druliveg used to cut other drugs."

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2010/06/19/koppel-overdose-accidental-son.html#ixzz0rL9yttH4 (http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2010/06/19/koppel-overdose-accidental-son.html#ixzz0rL9yttH4)

* * *
Michael Jackson died on June 25; his tox report was not announced until Aug. 7.

* * *
My point is posting these is that Peru might only now be getting toxology reports back. I have read that it takes at least 3 weeks and usually longer. I think part of the problem is that they have to run so many tests.

And also my point is that if Stephany was drugged ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 06:33:00 PM
San said:
If they were to find a lady of the night dead would the news be as sensational?  This is what Joran wanted.  He wanted something that would make the news.  Like Klaas has said he did it out of spite.  The only difference is that Joran got caught.  JMO.

PREMEDITATED.

* * *
San - Do you think he wanted a murder that would "make the news" enough, to risk spending time in a Peruvian prison? He was taking one heck of a gamble with his own life.

I don't think the murder showed enough premeditation for that. He might be dumber than dirt, but planning to leave her in his hotel room, his own shirt on top of her ...

Robbery, maybe sex - yes, premeditated.

Yes msmarple I believe he wanted something big.  Same crime, same age.

Isn't Joran's life about gambling.

msmarple do you think if Joran would have escaped to a country where the Dutch would be supported that they would have turned Joran over to Peru or would they turn him over to the Netherlands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 19, 2010, 06:34:52 PM
 Txxxx Txx Bxxx  I really appreciate your loyalty to your friendship wit joran . You are the defintion of friendship . And i also support joran . Dont know him but i dont think he is the bad person ppl try to make him look like .
4 hours ago

John Ludwick
thanks. i try my best. even if it costs me my reputation, i had to let people know the truth. as long as he is in prison and gets word that I did this for him i know he is thankful.
3 hours ago
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

_____________________________

can this putz get any more pathetic.........


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 06:35:50 PM
I forgot to add in my post above re. tox reports - I hope the police in Peru are testing the drinks left in the room (I think there was some soda). Even residue is testable.

It has occurred to me that he may have drugged whatever Steph was drinking, but she didn't drink much of it.

It was reported that some of her wounds were defensive; clearly she had time to fight back.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 06:37:28 PM
Txxxx Txx Bxxx  I really appreciate your loyalty to your friendship wit joran . You are the defintion of friendship . And i also support joran . Dont know him but i dont think he is the bad person ppl try to make him look like .
4 hours ago

John Ludwick
thanks. i try my best. even if it costs me my reputation, i had to let people know the truth. as long as he is in prison and gets word that I did this for him i know he is thankful.3 hours ago
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

_____________________________

can this putz get any more pathetic.........


He would have been more thankful if you sent him the money you loser.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 06:40:11 PM
I forgot to add in my post above re. tox reports - I hope the police in Peru are testing the drinks left in the room (I think there was some soda). Even residue is testable.

It has occurred to me that he may have drugged whatever Steph was drinking, but she didn't drink much of it.

It was reported that some of her wounds were defensive; clearly she had time to fight back.

I remember hearing about the soda left in the room.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 06:44:17 PM
Dude!



(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ANITAVANDERDOOD.png)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 19, 2010, 06:44:32 PM
San - I think he might have been sent to The Netherlands, assuming The Netherlands wanted him :lol:.

But then again, politics exist in South America. Also, a man killing a woman of good standing with his bare hands, and also with very "red hands" (as in virtually caught red-handed on camera) is very poorly regarded.

So it's hard to say. I will say that I was startled when he didn't seem to head to Suriname, although I am not sure what kind of relationship Suriname and The NL have nowdays.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: twinkiesmom on June 19, 2010, 06:46:14 PM
Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.

I agree with almost everything you've said CBB. 
An expert on NG said it takes great strength and time for a neck in someone as young as Stefany to break.  The bones the cervical spine are so pliable.
At any moment from the first punch he could have chosen to stop. 

Anyway, I have a problem with a plan to kill on the 5th anniversary date.  I really do.  Where was the organization?   Why would he choose Stefany, knowing he would be seen with her on casino tapes? 
I believe he wanted Stefany sexually, and he wanted her money and when she resisted he killed her and ran in an attempt to save himself.

Joran could have chosen someone else to kill.  A lady of the night perhaps.  Someone who would not be missed right away, if his intention was to kill on the 30th May.

with respect and imho.


Joran is a legend in his own mind.

He intended a softer kill and disappearing the body.  He intended to put some time between their discovery of his involvement and reviewing of the tapes so that they would be erased before the evidence was retrieved.

Joran thinks he's a more organized killer than he really is...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 06:51:42 PM
REMINDER WHY THEY ARE ALL GUILTY!  This was before they realized saying they ALL had sex with her probably wasn't a good idea.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/AMDig060405sex.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 06:56:19 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 19, 2010, 07:11:16 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

klaas, it that where the rocks were painted?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 07:12:08 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

klaas, it that where the rocks were painted?

Very close, yes


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 19, 2010, 07:13:50 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

klaas, it that where the rocks were painted?

Very close, yes

 Thanks, I was never really sure about that


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SuzieQ on June 19, 2010, 07:15:04 PM
This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.


(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/sueann37/Natalee/pondbehindjorans.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 07:17:58 PM
I believe Joran had some vague idea that he would hide Stephany's remains in a suitcase that he could carry out to her car and take to the sea.  But in order to walk through the lobby of the hotel, he would need to pay his bill and at least a few days ahead.

It was only after killing her that Joran discovered she did not have enough money for him to do that and buy a ticket back to Aruba or wherever he wanted to go.  He also saw police near the airport.

Joran did have some disorganized thought to concealing his crime and hiding the remains.  He just couldn't get it together.

I also think he had delusions of getting away the very same way he did in Aruba and made his kill as close to that one as possible partly for spite and partly because of his impulsiveness.

Totally premeditated all the way--just too bungling to pull it off.  He had to have thought of that suitcase at some point because he talked about it in his confession.

Who knows--Joran is a meglomaniac and may have even had delusions of extorting Stephany's family for years to come the way he has Natalee's.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Thanks SuzieQ!

Aerial of the Lighthouse area showing some similar rock formations:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/LighthouseArubaRocks.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 07:22:08 PM
[
Joran is a legend in his own mind.

He intended a softer kill and disappearing the body.  He intended to put some time between their discovery of his involvement and reviewing of the tapes so that they would be erased before the evidence was retrieved.

Joran thinks he's a more organized killer than he really is...


^^^This!^^^


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 07:24:10 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

So do I....and your theory is what I also believed then and now....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 19, 2010, 07:28:29 PM
This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.


(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/sueann37/Natalee/pondbehindjorans.jpg)

Was this pond ever checked?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 07:50:15 PM
Is Geraldo the only coverage this evening?

Anyone know?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 19, 2010, 07:50:59 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.


Was the shallow grave that Tim Miller/TX Equusearch found near the Lighthouse/Painted Rock area? 

I'm thinking that it was but I really don't remember the location as much as the dogs hitting on it and Tim's opinion that she had been there in that shallow grave for a short time before being moved.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 19, 2010, 07:51:43 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/16/205823/913
..........


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 07:54:35 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.


Was the shallow grave that Tim Miller/TX Equusearch found near the Lighthouse/Painted Rock area? 

I'm thinking that it was but I really don't remember the location as much as the dogs hitting on it and Tim's opinion that she had been there in that shallow grave for a short time before being moved.


NO, that was at the other end of the island, closer to Arikok


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 07:57:53 PM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 07:57:54 PM
OMG

Texasmom


http://www.24ora.com/policial-mainmenu-8/18842-accidente-den-white-house-na-moko.html

Accidente den White House na Moko      Print       E-mail
Saturday, 19 June 2010 16:07
(http://www.24ora.com/cache/multithumb_thumbs/b.150.100.16777215.0...images.stories.news.2010.juni.juni19.fotomoko.JPG)


Un cliente cu a bay haci amor den White House Apartments situa na Moko 30 a haye den un accidente. No den camber, sino pafor ora cu ela bay reverse su auto. Den e maniobra e homber a dal den porta di e apartament. E empleada a bay atende cune riba e desgracia aki pero e homber a reacciona masha agresivo. Cu palabranan insultante el a menasa e empleada pa e habri e porta na bon sino e lo a basha e porta abou. Polisnan a tuma keho di e apartament y a keda di bay investiga e caso pa por pone e cliente paga pa e daño cometi. E motibo dicon e cliente a sali cu tanto rabia asina no ta conoci.


Through translator:

accidente in white house at moko

 print e-mail saturday, 19 june 2010 16:07 album.jpg

 one cliente cu owing to bay haci affection in white house apartments situa at moko 30 owing to haye in one accidente. not in camber, but abroad hour cu ela bay reverse her car. in the maniobra he owing to strike in door by the apartament. the empleada owing to bay atende cune on the desgracia here but he owing to reacciona very aggressive. cu words insultante past owing to menasa the empleada for her open the door at good but the will owing to pour the door below. polisnan did take complaint by the apartament y owing to remain by bay investiga the caso before can laydown the cliente pay for her damage cometi. the motibo dicon the cliente owing to depart cu tanto angry so do not conoci. album.jpg come across

Sorry Klaas, was away from the computer for a while...

I saw this earlier, I think it's saying the "client" ran into the door of the apartment with his car when he was leaving, and when the attendant came to see what was going on he was aggressive towards them and left the scene.

But there may have been more to it...I didn't quite understand this part...

cu words insultante past owing to menasa the empleada for her open the door at good but the will owing to pour the door below.






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 19, 2010, 07:58:38 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.


Was the shallow grave that Tim Miller/TX Equusearch found near the Lighthouse/Painted Rock area? 

I'm thinking that it was but I really don't remember the location as much as the dogs hitting on it and Tim's opinion that she had been there in that shallow grave for a short time before being moved.


NO, that was at the other end of the island, closer to Arikok

Thanks, Klaas!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 08:00:42 PM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

She described her son as a loving boy, but said that something happened to him as he grew up.

"He was a sweet kid, who loved animals and his grandma. Happy, open," she said. "He lost his way along the way. It was gradual.


"After he was arrested for Natalee's disappearance, he was traumatized," the paper quoted her as saying. "We made a big mistake then. We sent him to the Netherlands to study. He should have gone to a closed clinic, he needed psychological help even back then. He wasn't getting any rest, he was being persecuted."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 08:01:22 PM
TM - it's the White House Apartments (Capslock theory #1 or 2) that I was referring to.  Just that those apartments are mentioned.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 19, 2010, 08:02:35 PM
It is always Natalee`s fault, Anita.

You`re a sad, SAD woman. :(



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 19, 2010, 08:02:45 PM
Sorry, I had to look up a soccer score. Deperate ppl are out of range.
..
The article that I posted somewhere in the many tags says that Joran is being charged with simple theft also. Mr. Flores says that they do not have the complete story as they have not opened the laptop and they have not talked to a new friend that Joran made in the casino the night that he met Stephany. Another poker player, named Erik. The family wants him charged high. Just from all that I have read, I think he was interested in Stephany because she had money and won big in the casino on May 28. If he knew she came from a family that had money, I think it could have been a robbery motive to begin with. We only have his word for the FB threat and if they were playing on line, whose money was used for credit ??   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 08:07:11 PM
TM - it's the White House Apartments (Capslock theory #1 or 2) that I was referring to.  Just that those apartments are mentioned.

From: capslockwizard@hotmail.com
To: daveholloway@xxxxxx
Subject: RE: Nathalee possible buried place
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:18:15 -0500

Hi Dave,
 
To get Natalee Body you have to come to Aruba and arrange for some large Pumps that can drain a small pond. It has an odd shape.
 
 
I have decipher the Shango Riddle and the outcome of the Riddle points out the cover-up and also where the body was deposit in Aruba.
 
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am ******* NAT STORY *******
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path (Make a Straight Line
to the house of Rave, (Night Club Spice – Now Closed)
while of gold bricks ( The Bank – Go to The Bank, there is two banks, The Aruba Bank and Carribean Bank)
the road is not paved, (Go on the dirt road, This only is is accessible via the Aruba Bank)
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA (Pharmacy) (Natalee body was deposit  behind the pharmacy in Noord and it is call the Monserat Body of water)
 
Load this attached Google earth File to see the place.
See my Google Earth Map points to see where the Shango is pointing to. My Report is also pointing the the same place. I did send my report to FBI in Brimingham Field office. but they have done noting to it.
My Report come with the same conclusion based on facts and conditions that have to be met so that the question is solid 'True' in a truth condition.
The Sloot's error was 'The Time' first he said that he pickup Joran at 4:00 am at Mcdonald and then switch back to 11:00 pm. An Event  can not be in the Future and also In The Past. This will create a time paradox and where there is time paradox one have to lie to cover it up. The Other paradox is the 'sneaker' You can not be without sneaker at 4:00 am while he says he left it on the beach.
I did write my Report use the 'AND Logic' theory to test one simple string of connected AND events question. The question string
 
'Where would he hide a dead body So that nobody will find it And  Not been seen And  At the same time lose one of his shoes And Then walk on one shoe to Mc Donald’s And Where His Dad pick him up at 4:00 am'

 
Dave, The Shango report also show a cover-up that is at the heart of The Dutch Court System. I will be difficult to start proceedings without a plan. I will be capslocwizard for now even though my report has my real name on it. I want leave it confidential for now.
 
Yours Truly,
 
CAPSLOCKWIZARD.
 
 
Extract from my report
Test 3:   The murky Pool of Monserat. – Behind the Soccer field.
This area is possible because it is behind the soccer field of Deportivo Nacional.  It is accessible from the soccer field. This area is dark. Also you are not on the main road with a dead body. But not too far from home either but closer to Mc Donald’s.
If they decided after running around to dump the body into murky pool of Monesrat, they could have done the following:
a)    Look if anyone can see us
b)   Carry the body to the area
c)    Lift the body (extra Weight)
d)   Move into the water edges
e)    Feet will sink
f)     Drop the body in the water
g)   Try to pull feet out of the water
h)   Joran loses a sneaker
i)     Going separate ways from the dumping scene to create different alibi.
RESULTS:
Examining points a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i all is plausible. (True condition)
Point (a) nobody will see you when go over there it is quite secluded and dark.
Point (b) it is right there no even 5 meters from where you park your car
Point (c) will give you extra weight
Point (d) if you want to make sure nobody will ever find the body; you have to walk deeper into the water.
Point (e) the extra weight and the action of going deeper into the water   will make sure that your feet will sink into the mud.
Points (f) drop her into the deep end and nobody will find her because nobody is going to look for her over there.
Point (g) the process of the going into the deep end, Joran feet get stuck into the mud.
Point (h) by the simple action to turn around to walk back out of the water he lost his shoes.
Point (j) when they split up, their action leaves Joran walking toward his father who is at the Radisson Casino. He could not have walk back home because it is too far. And walking back means crossing the Noord Police station. The distance from the soccer field to Mcdonlad;s is only 15 min walking.
He just committed a crime and his instinct will not let him do this. So he decided to call his dad and started to walk without his sneakers towards him. His dad walks out of the casino, jumps into his car and at the traffic light is where he saw Joran walking near the McDonalds around 4:00 a.m. with a shoe missing. From there they drove home.
The Kalpoe’s brothers at the spilt up, Went behind the Racquet Club and sit and wonder what they just did. It is here that other witnesses say that they saw his car parked near the area.
If they did not split up, they could have drove Joran back home.
Option 2- Hide the body in a temporary place, then to get rid of the body on May 31, 2005 around 2:30 am with the following conditions: Kalpoe’s car left behind at Joran’s home and Joran car now with the dead body in it.
Option -2 Will leaves Joran always with a car and never at foot to walk alone to McDonald’s. And the date is May, 31, 2005

Test case Observation:
All 3 test cases show the possible places that can be use to dispose of a body.
Test 1 was invalided due to he could always walk home after they separate to create different alibi.
Test 2 was Invalided due to he could have walk across the street to the Radisson hotel parking lot and there he would have been waiting for his father after they separate to create different alibi.
Test 3 shows clearly where he was coming from and where his dad picks him up. It shows also that the area in question is dark were no body can see you. The water over there is muddy where one can lose a shoe. Also it forms a clear walking path toward the Mc Donald’s or to the Radisson Casino.

All three Test show also that if they did not went their separate ways they could have driven Joran back Home where he could have put on another shoe.
The action to go separate way has forced them to create all kinds of semi true stories that looks plausible but if the Investigators have spend the time to look the practice on what normal people do when they want to have a quickie they would have seen that their stories cannot be true.
Other observation is that since they created so many stories to hide the place from being find is because that they could not retrieved the body from that area. So I believe that the body is still in the water pond of Monserat.
Other observation is that on May 31, 2005 the Sloot’s went back to make sure that the body cannot be found. If option – 2 was chosen from the beginning, this would Joran always with his car and no need to walk
Other observation is that they could not have use Joran’s car to go to the Whitehouse because it is an open Jeep. There is no way to hide more people in the car.
Conclusion and My Opinion
To deviate from the true crime area they made all plausible, but not so true stories.
With Google Earth I was able to pin-point the possible location where Joran could have lost a shoe and also how far it is from the Whitehouse apartment, how far it is from his house if he needed to walk back and also keeping an eye on the time to do the job.
The story about dumping the body on the beach cannot be true because you have already a dead body on your hand and you cannot do that. The chance to be seen with a dead body is too high and risky.
Finding someone to help you to dump it in the ocean means more people involved and the chance to be snitch on will increase and the chance to be seen by the coast guard is too high. Also the body will float back if not tied down on the bottom floor of the sea. This requires a more depth knowledge of buoyancy and understanding of the ocean currents of Aruba and knowing that when the wind turn even sunken boats come back to shore. So this is not possible.
The talk about putting the body in a crab cage is also flaws. In Aruba they do not use these big cages and their fishing techniques are with lines and rods.
Dumping the body in a landfill is possible and there is only one open land fill in the vicinity of Joran’s home. Plausible? yes but loosing the shoe there is also plausible but then you are left walking bare feet on metals, Cactus, boxes, broken glasses and God knows what, etc. Try to go to a land fill with just slippers and you can see that it is very difficult to walk on debris of rubbish and in the dark more it will be very difficult. Sniffing dog would have found her already. Note: a dog cannot sniff in waters.
 
Other issue is that he could not have been driving on the main roads because the chance to be stop by cops in those hours of the morning is quite possible. One Instinct will be to drive on the back roads.
 
Conclusion:
 
It the girl died on them, the only logic solution was for them to call the police and explain to the police that she died on them while partying but no… They decided to dispose of the body. After all what has happened, Joran’s dad advice was to dispose of the body. And knowing that his dad is a Judge, Joran would have follows the dad’s advice knowingly all the implication that will come from his careless actions.
 
Joran would have asked his Dad for advice and I do believe the wrong advice was given to protect the son that was going to study in the Netherlands.
 
Where to look for the Body:
 
The only way the body can be found is to search for the shoes round the edges for the murky pools of Monserat in Aruba, and when the sneaker is found, the body will be there also. Drain this body of water and see what is in there
 
Need some someting to validate this statement (The Shango Riddle decypher code).
 
 
The Dad statement:
 
The reason they got away is that there is not a body to link with the presumed crime case. The father of Joran stated clearly that if there is NOT A BODY there will be NO CASE.
 
And so, to make the above statement true, the perps must have to make sure that the body cannot be found, They created fictional stories to cover their track, but they forgot one thing, a Body will be decompose slowly in mud and it will be found with time.
 
How did they could accomplish that on May 31, 2005
 
Note:            02.  ALBERTO GROENEVELD AND CLAUDIO ELDRIDGE – DEEPAK'S VEHICLE

At 2:30 AM on the morning of May 31, 2005 .... Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldrige observed Deepak Kalpoe's vehicle inside the fence of the Van der Sloot property.  These men told Natalee’s family that they climbed the fence and recording the tag (license) number.

We know that Alberto and Claudio were supposed to be with Beth/Jug and Charles Croes trying to locate Joran in the early morning hours of 5/31.  That's when they supposidly saw the Kalpoe car there.
Assume that they decide on that date, the 31st of May to make sure that nobody will find the body. They must have gone back to the dumping area in the night. This action will account for the time that Joran and Kalpoe was missing on the 31st of May where Kalpoe left his car at Joran’s home.
 
This is plausible since they have to do it at night to double check that the area where they dumped the body is the perfect area and to make sure the body did not come back to float.
 
What this time tells us is that since it is almost the same time as of the may 30 and nobody has seen anything; they decided to use the same time again to go to the area to double check on the body.
 
Other factor to count that late hour is that in the day time they cannot go to the area because the chances to be seen near the field while the field being is used and the area is occupied with traffic will expose them and is risky.
 
On the date may 31 around 2:30 or time, they either make it sure she is secured in the deep end or to pick her up and to be buried some other place.
 
Looking at the place, I do not think they are going to pick her up in the night either. You need scuba equipment to do it and light, it is plausible, but to secure it, it’s more likely, to put more debris on top of the body in the water where she was dumped.

 
My Note: That area is full of these big black Ants called Bashaka in Papiamento. I went to see it for myself and it is plausible that the Kalpoe’s contaminated his car with Ants from that area.
Note:        05.  NEIGHBOUR - WASHING/CLEANING DEEPAK'S VEHICLE

Shortly after 3:00 AM on the morning of May 31, 2005 Deepak Kalpoe was observed by a neighbor cleaning his vehicle.  'Ants' were the reason given by Deepak.
My Note: The question which was asked “if Joran got help from kalpoe” and the answer is YES, The area is full of Ants and he also must has got mud in the car on May 31, 2005.

What Next for 2008:
Ask Aruba to search the edged of the murky water reservoirs of Monserat or pump the water out and where you find the sneakers in the mud, you will also find the body of Natalee.
 
For what I have observed about this body of water, it is plausible that the body is still in the body of water. The water is so murky and still water. It has a deep end with a ridge in the middle of the pond that will prevent the body to move out.
 
 
Also note that the lines of events make a straight line to and from his house. And that is the most likely route because he was familiar with the area.
 
 
When someone is scare or in panic, you do not go to the hotels with a dead body. Nature instinct will say let’s go and get help and the advice he got (from his father who is a Judge) was to dispose of the body and he (the father) will take care of the legal ramification.
 
 
Please review and let me know what you think of this research.
This report is send to the following persons and authorities:
 
A)   Beth Twitty. – The FBI should forward it to Beth Twitty
B)   The FBI Special Agent Carmen S. Adams – Birmingham@ic.fbi.gov
 
 
About Me:
Name: Rudolf H. Vrolijk
Address: Shiribana 6, Aruba
Email: ((edit personal email))
Email: capslockwizard@hotmail.com
Phone: 297-746-7000
 
 


So in the last couple days we have had police activity in both the Monserat area and also the Whitehouse Apartments.  Just thought it odd....    (insert freaky smiley)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SuzieQ on June 19, 2010, 08:13:40 PM
This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.


(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/sueann37/Natalee/pondbehindjorans.jpg)

Was this pond ever checked?


Blonde if no one else has answered. I think this is the pond that Tim and his people tried to search, but it was too full of trash and the people watching them threw rocks at them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 08:16:42 PM
Ted Koppel's son died (May 31) - Just yesterday, June 18, the NYC Medical Examiner ruled that he died of an overdose.

"The New York City medical examiner's office said on Friday that 40-year-old Andrew Koppel died from a combination of alcohol, heroin, cocaine, painkillers and Levamisole, a druliveg used to cut other drugs."

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2010/06/19/koppel-overdose-accidental-son.html#ixzz0rL9yttH4 (http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2010/06/19/koppel-overdose-accidental-son.html#ixzz0rL9yttH4)

* * *
Michael Jackson died on June 25; his tox report was not announced until Aug. 7.

* * *
My point is posting these is that Peru might only now be getting toxology reports back. I have read that it takes at least 3 weeks and usually longer. I think part of the problem is that they have to run so many tests.

And also my point is that if Stephany was drugged ...

Toxicology reports can be done quite fast.  It has to be this way in order to treat drug overdoses, etc.  Some people want more refined tests, meaning determining as near the exact amount, time of ingestion, etc.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 08:17:56 PM
I forgot to add in my post above re. tox reports - I hope the police in Peru are testing the drinks left in the room (I think there was some soda). Even residue is testable.

It has occurred to me that he may have drugged whatever Steph was drinking, but she didn't drink much of it.

It was reported that some of her wounds were defensive; clearly she had time to fight back.

I remember hearing about the soda left in the room.

Also in the vehicle, one diet and one regular coke containers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Frijole on June 19, 2010, 08:18:33 PM
This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.


(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/sueann37/Natalee/pondbehindjorans.jpg)

Was this pond ever checked?


Blonde if no one else has answered. I think this is the pond that Tim and his people tried to search, but it was too full of trash and the people watching them threw rocks at them.

If this is the one I am thinking of it was Dutch media that was throwing rocks at them.  I remember thinking WTH? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 08:21:01 PM
Remember Hans Mos said that he had enough evidence to charge the Kalpoes with
body disposal, but that only carried a six month sentence, so it wasn't worth his time.

Where did the Kalpoes dispose of that body?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 08:21:35 PM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Some of Kalpoe testimony seems to lead to that conclusion as well and was it not around June 10 that the wild goose chase to the Light house after a confession soon withdrawn by a madman and his parents took place


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 08:21:56 PM
Hi Monkeys! I've been reading the posts from the last several pages and thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

IN MY OPINION:

Joran broke Stephany's neck when he "Grabbed her by the neck and squeezed for a minute." Because she still breathed, he then suffocated her with his shirt.

The coincidence of Stephany's murder occurring on the anniversary of Natalee's death, is no coincidence. Agitated by knowledge (from ALE tip) about the extortion sting, Joran fled Aruba and stewed on how Natalee had ruined his life. He had mentioned the 5 year anniversary and was aware of it's approach. I believe he intended and planned to murder another girl on that date, and chose Stephany because of the added perk of the money he saw she had. After all, Natalee and Beth were the reason he didn't have his own money tree, and the reason girls were more difficult to pick up, and the whole Natalee mess had just caused him to once again be "trapped" and be on the run. I believe he was seething with anger, and intended to show the FBI, Beth, and the world that they had no power over him and could not stop him from doing anything.

I believe that just as Van der Stratten initially proposed admission to a mental facility as an acceptable way to handle Joran's murder of Natalee, Anita scrambled to set up an admission in the wake of learning about the extortion sting. She hoped to tamper the coming charges by his admission to a mental facility and use her "strings" to lessen the consequences. Joran didn't have Paulus to talk him through what was smart and to go along with the plan. Joran was in "strike out" mode. Joran's encounter with Beth comes to mind when she told him she wanted her daughter back. His demeanor was defiant and angry, and that came through even with Paulus at the reins.

I believe Stephany suffered Joran's explosion.

I agree with almost everything you've said CBB. 
An expert on NG said it takes great strength and time for a neck in someone as young as Stefany to break.  The bones the cervical spine are so pliable.
At any moment from the first punch he could have chosen to stop. 

Anyway, I have a problem with a plan to kill on the 5th anniversary date.  I really do.  Where was the organization?   Why would he choose Stefany, knowing he would be seen with her on casino tapes? 
I believe he wanted Stefany sexually, and he wanted her money and when she resisted he killed her and ran in an attempt to save himself.

Joran could have chosen someone else to kill.  A lady of the night perhaps.  Someone who would not be missed right away, if his intention was to kill on the 30th May.

with respect and imho.


Joran is a legend in his own mind.

He intended a softer kill and disappearing the body.  He intended to put some time between their discovery of his involvement and reviewing of the tapes so that they would be erased before the evidence was retrieved.

Joran thinks he's a more organized killer than he really is...

He sure is a legend in his own mind. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 19, 2010, 08:22:57 PM
I agree it is freaky Klaas!

BBL, taking DH out to eat a huge steak for Father's Day!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 08:26:26 PM
I believe Joran had some vague idea that he would hide Stephany's remains in a suitcase that he could carry out to her car and take to the sea.  But in order to walk through the lobby of the hotel, he would need to pay his bill and at least a few days ahead.

It was only after killing her that Joran discovered she did not have enough money for him to do that and buy a ticket back to Aruba or wherever he wanted to go.  He also saw police near the airport.

Joran did have some disorganized thought to concealing his crime and hiding the remains.  He just couldn't get it together.

I also think he had delusions of getting away the very same way he did in Aruba and made his kill as close to that one as possible partly for spite and partly because of his impulsiveness.

Totally premeditated all the way--just too bungling to pull it off.  He had to have thought of that suitcase at some point because he talked about it in his confession.

Who knows--Joran is a meglomaniac and may have even had delusions of extorting Stephany's family for years to come the way he has Natalee's.

.

That's my thinking, too, Anna.  He had taken Beth for all that she could rake and scrape and I don't think Stephany was chosen out of hole cloth.  He knew who she was and what she was worth.  She was the grand prix.  A gambler, a woman, a rich family.  What more could he want?   I think there was a method to his madness but due to his tangential thinking and lack of organization, no Paulus, Anita and Kalpox there to help him pull it off, the mentally deficient Joran, now a foreign land, not his own backyard of old favors and cave grounds, found the escape hatch harder and abandoned and his ill-conceived plans, and just got the hell out of dodge as quickly as possible using the only device he had, his criminal imagination.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 19, 2010, 08:29:59 PM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 08:32:16 PM
I believe Joran had some vague idea that he would hide Stephany's remains in a suitcase that he could carry out to her car and take to the sea.  But in order to walk through the lobby of the hotel, he would need to pay his bill and at least a few days ahead.

It was only after killing her that Joran discovered she did not have enough money for him to do that and buy a ticket back to Aruba or wherever he wanted to go.  He also saw police near the airport.

Joran did have some disorganized thought to concealing his crime and hiding the remains.  He just couldn't get it together.

I also think he had delusions of getting away the very same way he did in Aruba and made his kill as close to that one as possible partly for spite and partly because of his impulsiveness.

Totally premeditated all the way--just too bungling to pull it off.  He had to have thought of that suitcase at some point because he talked about it in his confession.

Who knows--Joran is a meglomaniac and may have even had delusions of extorting Stephany's family for years to come the way he has Natalee's.

.

I think Joran also said he was in a foreign country and didn't know where he could buy a suitcase. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 08:33:31 PM
Anita knows, Paulus knew, Valentijn knows, Sabastian knows and Joran knows he killed Natalee and Stephany.   Anita can live in denial for the rest of her life but deep down she knows.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 08:33:49 PM
I believe Joran had some vague idea that he would hide Stephany's remains in a suitcase that he could carry out to her car and take to the sea.  But in order to walk through the lobby of the hotel, he would need to pay his bill and at least a few days ahead.

It was only after killing her that Joran discovered she did not have enough money for him to do that and buy a ticket back to Aruba or wherever he wanted to go.  He also saw police near the airport.

Joran did have some disorganized thought to concealing his crime and hiding the remains.  He just couldn't get it together.

I also think he had delusions of getting away the very same way he did in Aruba and made his kill as close to that one as possible partly for spite and partly because of his impulsiveness.

Totally premeditated all the way--just too bungling to pull it off.  He had to have thought of that suitcase at some point because he talked about it in his confession.

Who knows--Joran is a meglomaniac and may have even had delusions of extorting Stephany's family for years to come the way he has Natalee's.

.

I think Joran also said he was in a foreign country and didn't know where he could buy a suitcase. 


Hello....yellow pages!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 08:38:29 PM
I believe Joran had some vague idea that he would hide Stephany's remains in a suitcase that he could carry out to her car and take to the sea.  But in order to walk through the lobby of the hotel, he would need to pay his bill and at least a few days ahead.

It was only after killing her that Joran discovered she did not have enough money for him to do that and buy a ticket back to Aruba or wherever he wanted to go.  He also saw police near the airport.

Joran did have some disorganized thought to concealing his crime and hiding the remains.  He just couldn't get it together.

I also think he had delusions of getting away the very same way he did in Aruba and made his kill as close to that one as possible partly for spite and partly because of his impulsiveness.

Totally premeditated all the way--just too bungling to pull it off.  He had to have thought of that suitcase at some point because he talked about it in his confession.

Who knows--Joran is a meglomaniac and may have even had delusions of extorting Stephany's family for years to come the way he has Natalee's.

.

I think Joran also said he was in a foreign country and didn't know where he could buy a suitcase. 


Hello....yellow pages!

Yep.  Shows how disorganized he was. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 19, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.

What does she mean, "i will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him.."  does that mean she literally can't hug him, or she can not 'embrace'/accept what he has done, so she won't see him? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 08:43:27 PM
Van der Sloth!!! - Carpe, I can't count the number of times you've caused me to laugh out loud!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 19, 2010, 08:49:29 PM
I believe Joran had some vague idea that he would hide Stephany's remains in a suitcase that he could carry out to her car and take to the sea.  But in order to walk through the lobby of the hotel, he would need to pay his bill and at least a few days ahead.

It was only after killing her that Joran discovered she did not have enough money for him to do that and buy a ticket back to Aruba or wherever he wanted to go.  He also saw police near the airport.

Joran did have some disorganized thought to concealing his crime and hiding the remains.  He just couldn't get it together.

I also think he had delusions of getting away the very same way he did in Aruba and made his kill as close to that one as possible partly for spite and partly because of his impulsiveness.

Totally premeditated all the way--just too bungling to pull it off.  He had to have thought of that suitcase at some point because he talked about it in his confession.

Who knows--Joran is a meglomaniac and may have even had delusions of extorting Stephany's family for years to come the way he has Natalee's.

.

I think Joran also said he was in a foreign country and didn't know where he could buy a suitcase. 


Hello....yellow pages!

Yep.  Shows how disorganized he was. 
hi monkeys, there are not many places to buy suitcases in peru. saga fallabela should have suicases but there are expensive and sundays everything opens late or some placed don't k
open at all, sunday is a family day


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: can on June 19, 2010, 08:53:43 PM
Hi Cecilita. 
Kind of nice that Sunday is geared to families.

Cecilita, do you know if plea bargains are part of your judicial system?  tia


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 19, 2010, 08:54:53 PM
Dutch tv-network SBS has permission to go into Castro Castro on Monday and the reporter will try to talk to Joran.
Maybe he -just like his mommy- only wants to talk to the Dutch press and not the American.
I'll keep you guys posted.


Thank you Jo-An..and thank you for translating and posting the article from the Telegraph.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 19, 2010, 08:58:45 PM
johann555 posted:

Re: Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) DUTCH & English
« Reply #452 on: April 24, 2008, 06:23:40 AM »
I think Joran is still in Den Dolder
I was there this morning and 2 people told me that Joran is there on the Roosenberg Unit .
The man on the pic below told me and someone who works there.
The Roosenberg unit is not an open Unit you can see that on the 3th pic .
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg376684#msg376684


(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/IMG_2813kopie.jpg)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg376658#msg376658


MANY TIMES JORAN VAN DER SLOOT WAS AT SM READING UP AS WELL AS FREEBIRDS BLOG -

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT
Renfro hinted the other day that Joran IS in school...........................he got to our blog by a "Murderer" pic of ours in our photobucket 


Domain Name asianet.co.th ? (Thailand)
IP Address 61.90.249.# (Rangsit University)
ISP True Internet Co.
Location Continent : Asia
Country : Thailand (Facts)
State/Region : Pathum Thani
City : Rangsit
Time of Visit Aug 19 2008 2:56:31 am
Last Page View Aug 19 2008 2:56:31 am
Visit Length 0 seconds
Page Views 1
Referring URL http://images.google...8M:&tbnh=75&tbnw=135
Visit Entry Page http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/
Visit Exit Page http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/


I have a whole document of Joran van der Sloot watching the websites and blogs.

ribbit





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 19, 2010, 09:02:49 PM
I am checking in on my "tea" breaks while getting ready for a family reunion on hubby's side ... a family reunion that will be held at our home tomorrow.  Out of town family who are staying at my sister-in-law's home in Vancouver will be the guests of honor.  Hubby is busy making lots of sushi rolls (norimaki) and ... I am cleaning.  Other than my famous carrot cake (Safeway) and Tim Horton's coffee ... hubby's sisters have taken care of all the food.  I am praying for good weather.  There will be about 50 in attendance.

Well ... eldest son, DIL and three year old grandson from Vancouver Island will be arriving shortly ... so I better get busy and make up their beds.  Papa has already set up Thomas Train.

Later, Janet
10:30 AM PT


Enjoy your family time.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 19, 2010, 09:10:07 PM
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/610xkopie.jpg)

One-hung-low and da misses



Johan555 posted
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #767 8/5
« Reply #322 on: August 15, 2008, 12:12:47 AM »
I don't believe that at all,Joran is in Den Dolder
They want that we > think he is in Thailand 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.msg411456#msg411456


BLOG WHERE CAPS AND THAT ANIMO GUY ETC WERE BLOGGING:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.boublog.nl/2008/11/25/de-leugens-van-joran-en-de-pr-tegen-gielen/comment-page-5/&ei=_ZGXSoXzHI2QNvPruJ8F&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJohan555%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D90


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 09:11:57 PM
Kermit,
Wasn't Steph Watts photographed in Thailand with Joran?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 09:18:45 PM
Magnolia - yes Steph was there for Greta's interview.  He was contracted to Fox at that time.

Kermit - that's the first time I saw that blog that Caps was posting on.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 09:19:42 PM
Kermit,
Wasn't Steph Watts photographed in Thailand with Joran?

http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-confession-to-me/

(http://stephww.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fgallery2-8.jpg?w=450&h=450)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 19, 2010, 09:29:38 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/16/205823/913
..........


thanks Kat...that was very informative.....nice for a change to read something that makes sense


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 09:30:02 PM
Kermit,
Wasn't Steph Watts photographed in Thailand with Joran?

http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloots-confession-to-me/

(http://stephww.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fgallery2-8.jpg?w=450&h=450)

Thank you, Klaas. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 19, 2010, 09:31:39 PM
Caps totally bashing Beth and Natalee.  His supporters must have been so pround.

There is nbo such thing as an Aruban who wants to help us find what happened to Natalee.  Never has been and never will be.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 10:17:12 PM
I keep checking the Peruvian websites expecting to see headlines that say:

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT SE SUICIDA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: no rose colored glasses on June 19, 2010, 10:20:41 PM
I keep checking the Peruvian websites expecting to see headlines that say:

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT SE SUICIDA
I keep expecting to see that, or that someone murdered him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 10:21:45 PM
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/nieuws/article/detail/491752/2010/06/19/Joran-vluchtte-voor-opname-in-kliniek.dhtml

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranFledPsych.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 10:22:26 PM
I keep checking the Peruvian websites expecting to see headlines that say:

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT SE SUICIDA

Con su mano en su bolsillo. (with his hand in his pocket)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 10:23:33 PM
I keep checking the Peruvian websites expecting to see headlines that say:

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT SE SUICIDA

Con su mano en su bolsillo. (with his hand in his pocket)

lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 10:27:27 PM
Geraldo will be talking about the case after the commercial.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 10:30:15 PM
Hi San!! You beat me to it!! LOL!

Like San said............. coming up on Geraldo! <wink>


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 10:34:10 PM
I want Joran to go to the other prison.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 10:37:32 PM
I want Joran to go to the other prison.

Me too! No water or food, and lots of nasty infections.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 10:41:25 PM
Reporter just said a lawyer said Anita wants the case to cool down before she goes.

Geraldo just cut Les Levine off...LOL

Kimberly Guilfoyle said Anita can't come right now because it's a hostile environment.

Geraldo asked Les Levine if Anita has any money yet.  Les said I'm sure she has some money.

Geraldo is making Les Levine look like an ass.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 10:42:41 PM
Were Geraldo and Kimberly smiling when they said they didn't think Joran would last long in prison?  ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 19, 2010, 10:42:54 PM
This Les Levine on Geraldo is trash.  Wants to blame this on Natalee and Beth and what he went through 5 years ago.  How can this man in good conscience get up there on TV and blame Joran's first victim for the death of his 2nde victim?

Robots, I hate them all also.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 10:43:03 PM
Reporter just said a lawyer said Anita wants the case to cool down before she goes.

Geraldo just cut Les Levine off...LOL

Kimberly Guilfoyle said Anita can't come right now because it's a hostile environment.

Geraldo asked Les Levine if Anita has any money yet.  Les said I'm sure she has some money.

Geraldo is making Les Levine look like an ass.

He sure did, and Les helped! LOL!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 10:43:37 PM
That's because Les Levine IS an ass.  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 19, 2010, 10:43:52 PM
Is Les Levine one of Posner's boys?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 10:45:46 PM
Is Les Levine one of Posner's boys?

He worked with Joe Tacopina.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 10:47:15 PM
Were Geraldo and Kimberly smiling when they said they didn't think Joran would last long in prison?  ;-)

YEP! THEY WERE!

Funny; it was Les that brought up "the dichotomy of justice, in that Stephany's Dad is as powerful in Peru as Paulus was in Aruba that resulted in Joran getting off."

Anita still believes that Joran's confession was forced from him.

Joran's conversation with the judge will probably last several hours on Monday. At issue is the validity of the confession.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 19, 2010, 10:49:08 PM
Were Geraldo and Kimberly smiling when they said they didn't think Joran would last long in prison?  ;-)

YEP! THEY WERE!

Funny; it was Les that brought up "the dichotomy of justice, in that Stephany's Dad is as powerful in Peru as Paulus was in Aruba that resulted in Joran getting off."

Anita still believes that Joran's confession was forced from him.

Joran's conversation with the judge will probably last several hours on Monday. At issue is the validity of the confession.

Yeah and they are giving Joran more medical tests.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 10:51:16 PM
Were Geraldo and Kimberly smiling when they said they didn't think Joran would last long in prison?  ;-)

YEP! THEY WERE!

Funny; it was Les that brought up "the dichotomy of justice, in that Stephany's Dad is as powerful in Peru as Paulus was in Aruba that resulted in Joran getting off."

Anita still believes that Joran's confession was forced from him.

Joran's conversation with the judge will probably last several hours on Monday. At issue is the validity of the confession.

Yeah and they are giving Joran more medical tests.

Must need to do the gender test again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: robots on June 19, 2010, 10:51:20 PM
Anita knew Joran was dangerous when she moved him in the other part of the house


they let him drink, gamble, drug girls, kill dogs, beat other people up, steal, lie, cheat


INSERT ROLLING EYES.....

yea, and my faucet is leaking all over the kitchen floor but i wait 4 months before i call the plumber and then i can BLAME the plumber for the ruined floors..

GROW UP PETER PAN ANITA........... you make me want to wretch my guts out



ps.  i still think joran killed paulus, i think he put something in his sporter drink so when paulus was sporting his racket. he drank it and it killed him.



yea,


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 10:59:16 PM
Were Geraldo and Kimberly smiling when they said they didn't think Joran would last long in prison?  ;-)

YEP! THEY WERE!

Funny; it was Les that brought up "the dichotomy of justice, in that Stephany's Dad is as powerful in Peru as Paulus was in Aruba that resulted in Joran getting off."

Anita still believes that Joran's confession was forced from him.

Joran's conversation with the judge will probably last several hours on Monday. At issue is the validity of the confession.

Yeah and they are giving Joran more medical tests.

Must need to do the gender test again.

First one came out as hermaphrodyte, right?     (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/devilmonkey.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 19, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
I don't think Joran is going to do too well with the Judge on Monday. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 19, 2010, 11:05:30 PM
Anita knows, Paulus knew, Valentijn knows, Sabastian knows and Joran knows he killed Natalee and Stephany.   Anita can live in denial for the rest of her life but deep down she knows.

I totally agree......... Anita knows! I'm not sure that she knew he murdered Natalee from day one, but at some point she came to know.

I think she always knew, deep down, that he was capable of murder.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 19, 2010, 11:25:03 PM
Jo-Ann,
I think he met and exceeded those requirements but the Sloots saw his admission into a mental hospital as a liability after all the lies about how normal he "is".
Anita probably shot it down.
IMHO
S

I agree.  He was getting treatment before Natalee.  IMO, he murdered Natalee and now he has murdered Stephany.  He should have been either institutionalized after Natalee or prosecuted and in jail.  Anita and Paulus did nothing but ENABLE Joran throughout his life.  Enabled and made excuses for his psychiatric problems and uncontrollable rage.

Said well-and I agree.  Anita trying to put a halo around her head as well as ignoring plain old simple facts, is sickening. 
NO TIARAS FOR HER!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 19, 2010, 11:38:17 PM
van der Sloot remains isolated in the Miguel Castro Castro prison
No prisoner or person outside the prison can access the area where he said the director of INPE

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, confessed murderer of the young student Stephany Flores, spends part of his life in prison rudimentary training with a weight made of plastic bottles filled with water and a broom handle with the shortcomings of the Peruvian prisons.

The Dutchman has been detained since Friday in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in a populous district located east of Lima, where he was assigned a one-man cell of 2 by 3.5 meters, with a bed, a sink and a silo as unique amenities.

The cell is in Van der Sloot Prevention Pavilion, a small area away from other inmates, and opposite direction, as a security measure.

"He told me he feared for his life," said the director of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez, after stating that there is no possibility that bystanders and other inmates access to that area.

He said the EU will remain there as long as they want, and that "if he asks to go to another site with the remainder going to the rest."

ACCOMPANYING OSPINA
The Dutchman's only companion is Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, a Colombian hit man accident that killed Myriam Fefer Peruvian entrepreneur, and recently was extradited to Peru. Trujillo agrees with Van der Sloot the weight scale is manufactured with a broom handle and plastic bottles.

"They are together, adjacent their cells, they share the TV you have Trujillo. He (Van der Sloot) is watching TV there, "in the cell of Colombia, Rodriguez said.

Van der Sloot faces a sentence of between 15 and 35 years in prison on charges of simple murder and theft, for the murder of Stephany Flores in the hotel room where he was staying on Sunday 30 May.

Next Monday will be questioned by Judge Carlos Morales, head of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima, in the same prison in a private care.

Rodriguez noted that the Dutchman has not received any phone calls from their family, and has said he does not want to be visited by anyone, but last Tuesday was visited by an envoy of the consul of the Netherlands.

The evangelical pastor Héctor Allende, a former bank robber who served prison inmates and now preaches, says that in prison there curiosity by the presence of Van der Sloot for being a new procedure. But consider that in no danger of the other inmates to cause harm.

"When it comes to killing an adult with indifference, not so much value and are not judged by it (to kill), only if you have killed a child," he said.

CASTRO CASTRO
The prison, with a capacity for 1,200 inmates but which is home to 1594, consists of 12 buildings of three stories each, and prisoners are separated according to the crime they have committed, terrorism, drug trafficking, kidnapping, murder, robbery , and others.

Currently there are about 300 prisoners for terrorism, and about 80 foreign inmates, most Colombians and Mexicans convicted of drug trafficking, according to Ricardo La Serna, director of the Episcopal Commission for Social Action, a Catholic NGO that defends human rights of inmates.

However, the last criminal charge of a slaughter of prisoners in 1992, following a military operation to quell a mutiny of terrorist prisoners who were opposed to being transferred to another prison, the government of then President Alberto Fujimori.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/497579/joran-van-der-sloot-permanece-aislado-penal-miguel-castro-castro?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 12:09:41 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/vader.jpg)


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/loser.jpg)



I got him a tie this year! :)
(http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs046.ash2/35679_1287924849819_1581124725_616583_6679343_a.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Puzzler on June 20, 2010, 12:21:59 AM
I don't think Joran is going to do too well with the Judge on Monday. 

I, too, don't think Joran is going to do too well with the Judge on Monday.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nychic on June 20, 2010, 12:30:55 AM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed but I have been wondering if Stephany's neck was broken after she was dead ?
Here is why: In Joran's sick mind he may have tried to fold her dead body into that duffel bag breaking her neck in the process due to frustration
This would also explain why her clothes were removed
Stephany was not as thin as Natalee so he may have just given up on the suitcase idea and decided to run

Has it ever been determined just how much cash he stole from her ?
Western Union transactions should be checked - I think that he called Anita - to wire her some cash...Just In Case (it would be so great if that were true and exposed)

Also I think when they say he had not paid for his room they were referring to the 2-3 days he was on the run - If you notice the clerk holds the room key as Joran had to pick it up when he walked in with Stephany - No pay - No Key


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 20, 2010, 12:32:09 AM
Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 1:
I watched as she received her high school diploma, and I took pictures of her at her graduation ceremony.  I planned to be there when she graduated from college and then medical school.  My pride would have enveloped us both.  I had long imagined the day when I would see my Natalee in her beautiful white wedding grown.  We would meet in the back of the church for her last moment as "daddy's little girl" and, as she encircled my arm with hers, I would lean down and whisper the words that all fathers must say to their daughters on that very special day, "I love you."  I would walk her down the aisle and proudly offer her hand to her fiance, and I would return to my seat knowing that my girl had accomplished all that a father could desire.  At that moment, it would be clear that the first tier of her life with me had come to an end and that the man she would now look to for approval and love would be her husband.  But she would always be my little Natalee ... always.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 12:41:09 AM
Txxxx Txx Bxxx  I really appreciate your loyalty to your friendship wit joran . You are the defintion of friendship . And i also support joran . Dont know him but i dont think he is the bad person ppl try to make him look like .
4 hours ago

John Ludwick
thanks. i try my best. even if it costs me my reputation, i had to let people know the truth. as long as he is in prison and gets word that I did this for him i know he is thankful.3 hours ago
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

_____________________________

can this putz get any more pathetic.........


He would have been more thankful if you sent him the money you loser.
The jerk knows Joran less than 90 days, and thinks he knows who he really is? Can you say, delusional?
Geesh, give me a friggin' break.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Lifesong on June 20, 2010, 12:49:36 AM
Txxxx Txx Bxxx  I really appreciate your loyalty to your friendship wit joran . You are the defintion of friendship . And i also support joran . Dont know him but i dont think he is the bad person ppl try to make him look like .
4 hours ago

John Ludwick
thanks. i try my best. even if it costs me my reputation, i had to let people know the truth. as long as he is in prison and gets word that I did this for him i know he is thankful.3 hours ago
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

_____________________________

can this putz get any more pathetic.........


He would have been more thankful if you sent him the money you loser.
The jerk knows Joran less than 90 days, and thinks he knows who he really is? Can you say, delusional?
Geesh, give me a friggin' break.

If feel sorry for this kid.  He'll put his reputation on the line just to have Joran's gratitude?  What a loser!  This guy needs serious dry-out time and a counselor stat.  Grow up, guy.  Joran don't give a sh*t what you're doing - ask the Kalpie, lol.

I think they were mainly just drug buddies and gambling buddies, and possibly gay lovers.  I think it meant much, much more to Ludwick than it did the murderer.  Anyway, I do wish one of these talk show goobers would ask him if Joran ever shook him down for money and how much.  Then ask him what all drugs they did together.  That oughta get him off the tv screen.

JMO





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 12:52:20 AM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed but I have been wondering if Stephany's neck was broken after she was dead ?
Here is why: In Joran's sick mind he may have tried to fold her dead body into that duffel bag breaking her neck in the process due to frustration
This would also explain why her clothes were removed
Stephany was not as thin as Natalee so he may have just given up on the suitcase idea and decided to run

Has it ever been determined just how much cash he stole from her ?
Western Union transactions should be checked - I think that he called Anita - to wire her some cash...Just In Case (it would be so great if that were true and exposed)

Also I think when they say he had not paid for his room they were referring to the 2-3 days he was on the run - If you notice the clerk holds the room key as Joran had to pick it up when he walked in with Stephany - No pay - No Key

I'm waiting to hear all the evidence and forensics.  Very possible he broke her neck in an attempt to hide her body somehow. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Sleuth on June 20, 2010, 01:04:29 AM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed but I have been wondering if Stephany's neck was broken after she was dead ?
Here is why: In Joran's sick mind he may have tried to fold her dead body into that duffel bag breaking her neck in the process due to frustration
This would also explain why her clothes were removed
Stephany was not as thin as Natalee so he may have just given up on the suitcase idea and decided to run

Has it ever been determined just how much cash he stole from her ?
Western Union transactions should be checked - I think that he called Anita - to wire her some cash...Just In Case (it would be so great if that were true and exposed)

Also I think when they say he had not paid for his room they were referring to the 2-3 days he was on the run - If you notice the clerk holds the room key as Joran had to pick it up when he walked in with Stephany - No pay - No Key

With him, this is entirely plausible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 01:19:55 AM
I don't think Joran is going to do too well with the Judge on Monday. 

I, too, don't think Joran is going to do too well with the Judge on Monday.



If he pulls the another day, another version, routine, the judge will probably add five years on general principal.

One thing about it, I don't think these people will be lobbing softballs, and failing to ask follow-up questions.

Plus by now, they've got a firm idea of everything traceable - his and her gambling wins/losses, trips in and out of Hotel Tac and where he went most of those times, whatever his cell phone yields, indeed Western Union as someone just mentioned, his banking records, etc.

I haven't seen anything yet about whether they've gotten into his computer. I understood that Peru was waiting for a judge to be assigned to the case, as the laptop would have required some sort of authorization. But a judge has been appointed, last Monday (? I think? 6/14 ?) so maybe there's been time for at least some preliminary work on it.

Forgive me for even asking about this, but I cannot imagine a "suitcase" that would hold an adult.

Possibly "suitcase" is something that isn't translating well? I could see something like a military-type duffle bag, or possibly (remotely) a suit hanger bag - but a suitcase?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 01:27:21 AM
nychic - I think we've seen that Joran checked into the hotel on 5/14 and paid 14 days in advance, which pays him through the night of 5/27. If that information is correct, he was two nights overdue when he walked out on the morning of 5/30.

He mentioned concern about his hotel bill to "X" (probably Jaap). I think this was part of his BS, as he was not that overdue when he left (but I don't recall the dates of that email exchange).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jonathan45 on June 20, 2010, 01:28:55 AM
@ msmarple, Canoworms, Can, Twinkiesmom


The 'bike' scenario was on Scrux. [not anymore]

In this scenario Joran used Valentijns mountainbike to bring the crimescene [Jorans apartment] from the VDSresidence to the beach by riding to the hotels and calling Deepak between 2.26am to 2.34am the night Natalee vanished.
 During that call [ Deepak stated that Joran was heavily breathing and that the connection was bad] Valentijn logged in on the family computer next to Dead Daddy P's alibi, his bedroom.






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 01:31:27 AM
Thanks J45 - I looked for it.  You know, I might have copied it over here to SM.  I'll look.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 01:35:22 AM
@ msmarple, Canoworms, Can, Twinkiesmom


The 'bike' scenario was on Scrux. [not anymore]

In this scenario Joran used Valentijns mountainbike to bring the crimescene [Jorans apartment] from the VDSresidence to the beach by riding to the hotels and calling Deepak between 2.26am to 2.34am the night Natalee vanished.
 During that call [ Deepak stated that Joran was heavily breathing and that the connection was bad] Valentijn logged in on the family computer next to Dead Daddy P's alibi, his bedroom.






Found it!

Posted at Scrux (this is Jonathan45's opinion):

Jonathan45

Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 62

 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
It was Joran's intention to have sex with that girl.
In his book he also wrote that Natalee wanted to have sex with him. Her bodylanguage gave all the signals.
When he is waiting for Deepak [and surprisingly to Joran also for Satish] to pick him up to go to C&C's Joran called Flor, one of his two girlfriends [Ealaine] to ask her if she was willing to join him to C&C's that night. Flor's dad did not allow her to go Joran wrote.
Was he feeling guilty already about the coming sexdate, knowing that the 16 year Flor would get no permission to join him ?
Why did Joran at 3.11am sent Flor a sweet message after he started already the fictional beachstory by framing the Kalpoes starting by calling Deepak at 2.26am ?
Why did he gave Flor as a data fact a spot on his own created timeline ?
Was he at that moment ready with the disposal ?
Did he felt a relief after finishing that crucial 'no body no case' operation between 2.15am and 3.10am and does Joran therefore compares himself with a professional killer, who could kill and let vanish a body within an hour ? Joran's timeline proves it's his escaperoute.
Joran managed to bring the crimescene from the VDSresidence to the beach by fictionalizing an open end [I left her on the beach].
The body of Natalee was also by mindf***ing left within his beachfiction.
In reality the body was in his apartment and it was Joran who succeeded in his mission by knowing every single spot within 1000 meters from his home. Joran is a local boy.
To walk with a body could be done easily within an hour after Natalee died.
To frame the Kalpoes by using [or even walking] his brothers bike is also easy within the timeline.
Was Joran 5 minutes before he sent Flor a sweet sms message[3.11am at home and did Valentijn woke up ?
Was Paulus really asleep or not at home till 4.00am when a tip [june 2005] stated that he/she saw Paulus car returned to the VDSresidence ?
The driver was not recognized because of the darkness.
Is Valentijn a keywitness who was payed by his brother Joran [ he won a lot of money in that weekend] to seal his lips ?
Is it the pathological double binds between these two boys which made it for Joran possible to rule as the spider in the pathological double binds familyweb ?
When Natalee disappeared Anita, his mother was in Holland.
In his book Joran stated that he was for his parents out of control.

He had a secret bankaccount with 5000 US dollars pokerprice money. [page 60], he stole money from his parents.
Joran had lot of cash in his apartment. On monday May 30 he and Marco drove to the VDShome to get some more money to play in the casino.
Back in the casino he started with 500 US dollars on number 9 and 1 dollar at double zero. He wins 180 dollars.
Later, during the pokerplaying, Deepak called him to ask where Joran was.
The first direct contact after more than 21 hours between Deepak and Joran after the 2.26am call, the beginning of the beachfiction.
Joran stated in his book [page 99] about Deepak's call:
Around 00.30am [tuesday, May 31] Deepak called me and asked 'where are you ?". In the Radisson Joran replied. "I'm coming" Deepak said and hung up. Joran: " I found that a bit strange, but did not thought about it. I had to concentrate on the game"
Some hours later Beth Twitty arrived at the gate of the VDSresidence
to talk to the guy who admitted he was the last and only one who saw Natalee.


Joran's book is a confession 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 01:47:27 AM
'Sweet boy'
She added that her son is not a monster. "He was a sweet boy who loved animals and his grandmother. Funny, open. He has gradually lost its way. It was insidious."

She said he blamed himself for his father's unexpected death  earlier this year.

"Two days Joran cried. He even hung over the coffin, sobbing.

"It's my fault, Dad," he said. "I have caused your heart attack."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37802494/ns/world_news-americas/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 01:51:16 AM
I think he loved his grandmother more than he loved animals. She is still alive, right?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 01:55:47 AM
J45 - Thank you, that is very interesting. (But I still think that Natalee's body is absolutely not recoverable.)

One thing you mention that I recall something about, that is important:

"Was Paulus really asleep or not at home till 4.00am when a tip [june 2005] stated that he/she saw Paulus car returned to the VDSresidence ?
The driver was not recognized because of the darkness."

Now, when the "Alabama Posse" was at the VDS home, as Beth put it, "10+ witness" heard Papa VDS say that he had picked Joran up at McDonald's at 4:00 a.m.

One person from Aruba - one of the drivers helping that night, I *think* the one named "Eldridge" - corroborated that 4:00 a.m. time in his statement to the police. One person who would have no language/translation problem; one person who was not part of the "posse."

His statement was cited in the letter that was written by an attorney, maybe prosecutor, that enabled Aruba to withdraw a previous $$ lawsuit settlement to Paulus. We have that document; I'm just not very good at remembering these names from so long ago.

(He was a very brave young man, IMO, and I hope he's still alive. He just didn't know any better than to tell the truth.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 01:58:48 AM
Guess I should add that Papa VDS later changed the time that he picked up Joran from MacDonald's to 11:00 pm. In his statement to the polis.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jonathan45 on June 20, 2010, 02:03:20 AM
@klaasend

Thank you very much, Klaasend.
I myself have no back up.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 02:06:48 AM
At el comecerio, they ran the AP article that's just a "re-hash" and the commentors are annoyed ("refrito" I think they're calling it).

And some are getting tired of the story. Time for Joran to pull out one of his whack-a-doodles.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 02:10:41 AM
I just realized that I don't know how to spell McDonald's.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 02:12:25 AM
@klaasend

Thank you very much, Klaasend.
I myself have no back up.





klassand's backups are backed up.

Which reminds me - should we be getting psychologically and technologically prepared for this new server?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 02:20:12 AM
@msmarple--an adult woman was just found in a suitcase in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago.  Evidently it is possible and has been done before.  Suitcase is the term used for what she was in.  There is a thread here somewhere.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 02:25:41 AM
Now about 36 hours before Joran goes before the judge.  I share the thought he will not do well an can't wait for the judge to start hearing Joran's nonsense as I think he will be very hard on Joran when Joran starts with his lying and changing his story.

All prisons are filled with people with psychological problems, Anita.  Any murderer has to have them to some extent.  Your little homicidal maniac is nothing special in that regard.  And, no, it doesn't count for anything.

Niters, Monkeys! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 02:28:35 AM
I keep checking the Peruvian websites expecting to see headlines that say:

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT SE SUICIDA
I keep expecting to see that, or that someone murdered him.
I'm posting before I catch up............... I expect that even if he is murdered in prison -- the story will be that he "committed suicide". Either way -- Joran has a short shelf life!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: billb's daughter on June 20, 2010, 02:31:54 AM
anita knew when she got the call from paulass that urine was involved with Natalee's disappearance....she was in the NL and took a couple days before coming back to ply her contacts for high cover before returning to aruba....
the whole family are heathens...no belief in any God...they were/are out for only themselves. anita played the mother covering for urine in the media...and paulass controlled the legal issues.
anita and paulass never showed real concern about Natalee and Beth/Dave...only their sporter...
they knew what a monster he is (after all - they enabled him). anita led the mis-info machine...
anita knew paulass progressed his career in money laundering, illegal govt contracts, drugs, human trafficking, and used the pimps to bring 'fresh meat' to the local judges/politicians/underbellies on aruba...the dutch in aruba ran the island and felt entitled to whatever they wanted....still do....
I have NO sympathy for anita......paulass is rotting in hell......anita will join him at some point, along with urine....like a family reunion.....
If hell is anything like Castro Castro prison, there will be a cell block of dutch/arubans/american traitors...it is only a matter of time.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jonathan45 on June 20, 2010, 02:35:15 AM
@msmarple

Yes, Dead Daddy P did change his alibi. He brought his own whereabouts the night Natalee vanished back to his bedroom. 'I was asleep " he stated.

 Fact is that Joran logged in onto his computer at 10.30pm. So Dead daddy P didn't picked up Joran at 11.00pm but at 10.15pm by Mc Donalds.
Fact is that Joran logged in onto his computer at around 3.30am the night Natalee vanished. So no Mc Donalds pick up at 4.00am.

Two liars, two 'different' nightstories. Both trying to cover up their own horrorfying actions.
Joran misleading his dad and Dead Daddy P misleading Anita, his wife and helping his oldest son by mixing timeline data to create confusion.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 02:38:02 AM
Thank you so much Klaasend and Jonathon,
I remember some elements of the original disappearance but -wow- stuff I skipped over or missed entirely are really helpful. Those pond pictures really take me back. Thanks so much! all of you! for jarring the old memory bank
Happy Fathers Day to all the dads :) My own father was murdered around this time, 1976, so I respect the pain of the families that are missing one daughter to hug her own dad.
Sleep well,
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 02:39:10 AM
Oh! you are all still here! Maybe I will make some coffee!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 02:45:29 AM
Anita has a BS degree. 

Recall from the time Greta went to their house with Beth that she was trying to shine the best light on her family, if only to impress Greta, by calling Paulus "the judge," (and we learned that he was only training to be a judge) and by lying and saying that Joran had "aced" his tests. 

There was no way that even had he "aced" his tests that she could have known that.  He had taken an AP test and any child and any mother of a child (I know that Beth would know) knows that AP test scores are not available for months.  Those tests are taken for college advancement around the end of school year and scores are available to the colleges to which the student requested somewhere in the late summer before entrance in Autumn. 

Another thing, she made it sound as though Paulus had called her and given her a heads-up as to what had happened, so she came home, but later in the conversation made it sound as though some official from Joran's school had called her and asked her to come home because Joran was "talking too much" at school about his evening with Natalee. 

Why would she discuss Natalee's underwear with Beth except to put out Beth's/Natalee's light and make her sporter son's shine a little brighter.  She and Julia Renfro set this up from the very beginning and the powers that be on the miserable ill-educated island were told to go along because they were forcefed some kind of BS indicating that Beth and Natalee were not of upstanding character and were trying to trash the Aruban middle class, which was anything but the truth.

So, Anita has a BS degree, a bullsh*t degree, but my understanding is that she has no college or university degree and she is only allowed to teach art in that little school because she has some training such as an associate degree or trade school work.  Teachers in that school are not required to meet the criteria required of an American school and perhaps many teachers go there to escape a "past" in the US or other countries, i.e., the Netherlands, etc.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 02:58:39 AM
hi Tyler!
I remember the AP test scores discussion because my daughter took the AP's. If Anita was busy making then she probably wasn't doing any teaching at that time anyway....maybe the NL frowns on knocked up teachers who aren't married? I don't know...but by the time she was teaching ..."teaching", PVDS was ensconced in Aruba and that must have helped her land a position. Other than Missionary.
Ha


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 02:58:43 AM
I think The Netherlanlds' mediocre go to Aruba. And those who are forced to go there to avoid some kind of problem or embarrassment.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 02:59:30 AM
*if anita was busy making babies*


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 03:00:31 AM
I think The Netherlanlds' mediocre go to Aruba. And those who are forced to go there to avoid some kind of problem or embarrassment.
EXACTLY....the Island of Exile. I said this, too. what a dump!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 03:00:32 AM
Oh! you are all still here! Maybe I will make some coffee!

That sounds like a plan. Stay up all night and diss them all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 03:02:21 AM
Hahaha.
Seriously, I hope the judge doesthe right thing come Monday.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 03:04:40 AM
Ok Ms M,
I bid you adieu.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 03:05:06 AM
Tyler - You do know that you are Hemingwayesque, right?

I do mean that as a compliment, but I would hate to try to diagram some of your sentences!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 03:43:44 AM
PUBLIC LIVES; A Tough Guy Who Calls His Snarl a Purr
By JOYCE WADLER
Published: August 7, 1998

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    * Print

THE day is warm, the news conference regarding a mother and son who are suspects in a potential murder case is dying down, and on a bench opposite State Supreme Court in Manhattan a wino is dozing.

It's the time of day, in short, for the private investigator to make an admission.

''I've been told -- not by my kids -- that I'm not as warm and affectionate and demonstrative as they would like me to be,'' says Les Levine, the lead defense investigator in the Kimes case, chatting on a park bench. ''I'm not a flowery guy. I don't squeeze people and tell them I love them. But people who know me refer to me as a rough, tough pussycat.''

A pussycat? A guy who hunts down drug dealers and roots through garbage to find evidence and wears a wire? Pussycat?

''That's the rough, tough part,'' Mr. Levine says. ''I've been known to sit there in the courtroom and have tears streaming down when the guilty verdict comes in. I was very upset when Marv Albert made his guilty plea. Very upset, very upset.''

It is perhaps this tenderness that explains some of Mr. Levine's remarks regarding Sante and Kenneth Kimes, the mother and son who are the prime suspects in the disappearance of Irene Silverman, a wealthy New York widow. Mr. Levine, retained by their lawyer, Mel A. Sachs, has suggested that there are other suspects the police have overlooked and that he will find them. He has also been telling the press that ''everybody has enemies.''

''Mrs. Kimes is very pleasant, very personable, a very caring mother,'' he said outside the courthouse this week, where mother and son pleaded not guilty to credit card fraud. ''Her son appears to be a very decent kid. There are other people that my office is looking to, that perhaps have much greater motive.''

Why did the Kimeses have Mrs. Silverman's passport in their possession at the time they were arrested?

''Oft-times people who work for me or my lady friends have my passport in their possession -- that's one scenario,'' Mr. Levine says.

There are a handful of private detectives whom the city's top crime lawyers turn to in a high-profile case. Les Levine -- who refuses to reveal his age (he looks as if he's in his late 50's) or his fee ($150 or $175 an hour, depending on the case, according to a lawyer he has billed) -- is one. A firm believer in the importance of image, he drives a white Jaguar with a phone, a billy club and LES PI plates. Mr. Levine has worked for the defense teams of Marv Albert, the art dealer Alec Wildenstein, and a Columbia graduate student, Oliver Jovanovic, who was convicted of sexually abusing a Barnard student he met on the Internet. Mr. Levine's work on the Peter Gatien case, which resulted in the nightclub owner's acquittal on drug charges, has been praised by defense lawyers around town.

''Part of it is the gift of gab, getting people to confide in you,'' says Benjamin Brafman, who defended Mr. Gatien. ''Les is a likable person, he has good people skills. He can be what you what him to be: tough, creative, talented, soft-spoken.''

OTHERS feel Mr. Levine gabs too much.

''There are some slimeball private investigators,'' says Beau Dietl, a former New York homicide detective who now has his own investigation company. ''Les does not have a slimeball reputation. But you got to do a full investigation on somebody before you can say they're innocent. To say this old lady had a lot of enemies -- she's 82, how many enemies can she have? Her grocery delivery boy if she didn't give him a tip?''

This is not the sort of remark likely to bother Mr. Levine, who seems to have been cheerfully immune from criticism since his youth. Raised in Manhattan Beach, Brooklyn, the son of a jeweler and a housewife, Mr. Levine graduated from New York University but was never particularly interested in school: ask him what he majored in and he cannot remember.

Mr. Levine spent five years in his father's jewelry business, because he did not want to disappoint him, but then fled because he could not bear working behind a desk. He joined a collection agency owned by two private investigators, and stayed with the company as it expanded into an equipment-recovery firm. There was money in, say, tracking stolen shipping containers, but not much satisfaction. Mr. Levine took the test for a private investigator's license and went into business.

One of his first assignments was to investigate the credibility of the model Marla Hanson, whose face had been slashed on the order of a man she had rejected.

''Repugnant as this sounds, I looked into Marla Hanson's background to see if she was not the image she portrayed,'' Mr. Levine says, in a rare admission of the rough nature of his work.

How does he live with that sort of thing?

''It's what I do,'' Mr. Levine says. ''I would much rather go after the background of the victim than say I didn't give everything to the client and the attorney.''

Mr. Levine has told reporters that he intends to find out what has happened to Mrs. Silverman, the missing widow. Is Mr. Levine aware that people are comparing that remark to O. J. Simpson's statement that he would find Nicole Simpson's killer?

''That's not true,'' Mr. Levine says. ''Twelve people believed it. That's not a slight factor.''

Photo: Les Levine knows the whole repertory of private investigator tricks. (Librado Romero/The New York Times)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 04:07:24 AM
I think The Netherlanlds' mediocre go to Aruba. And those who are forced to go there to avoid some kind of problem or embarrassment.

This is true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 04:08:44 AM
Is this guy - Les Levine - Anita's private investigator?

Let me guess. The answer to Stephany's murder lies in Mountain Brook.

Yawn.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 04:12:05 AM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

I think ABC might have made an error there in their translation.
If "persecuted" is used in a legal sense, then that's a wrong translation.
I have the original newspaper here and it says "opgejaagd" and I translated it with "chased".
"Opjagen" means for instance when you are hunting and you are running after your prey, chasing it, tiring it.
And I think that's what Anita meant to say.
Joran was running and other people were going after him/chasing him


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 04:15:17 AM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.

What does she mean, "i will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him.."  does that mean she literally can't hug him, or she can not 'embrace'/accept what he has done, so she won't see him? 

Reading the original interview, Anita literally means that she can't embrace/hug him - because she has no feelings/love for him anymore.
I think she meant to say: I don't want to visit him in prison, because I don't want to hug/embrace him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 04:15:44 AM
And Stephany's past is going to be the reason for her murder.  I would say he is going to, with a vengeance, go after her reputation as a gambler and lesbian and after her father's reputation as a businessman/politician to win sympathy for the infamous Aruban murderer, Joran.

Let's please get away from calling Joran famous.  He is infamous and from a dysfunctional self-absorbed, irresponsible (flower child) family.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 04:17:15 AM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.

What does she mean, "i will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him.."  does that mean she literally can't hug him, or she can not 'embrace'/accept what he has done, so she won't see him? 

Reading the original interview, Anita literally means that she can't embrace/hug him - because she has no feelings/love for him anymore.
I think she meant to say: I don't want to visit him in prison, because I don't want to hug/embrace him.

Jo-An, I am wondering if it means rather than "don't want to," "cannot."  After seeing Kimberly and Geraldo discuss this case, she is afraid, in fear of her safety, to go to the prison to embrace Joran, meet with him for the fear of repudiation from the citizenry of Lima and those imprisoned at Miguel Castro-Castro


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 04:19:17 AM
Jo-An, I agree with you about that translation. I inferred that she meant exactly what you say.

Good morning!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 04:23:07 AM
Oh dear, let me quickly point out that I was referring to the "persecution" translation.

I saw Geraldo's show. I think I remember Kitty saying that she thought Anita wanted to wait until the media frenzy dies down before she goes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 04:33:09 AM
And Stephany's past is going to be the reason for her murder.  I would say he is going to, with a vengeance, go after her reputation as a gambler and lesbian and after her father's reputation as a businessman/politician to win sympathy for the infamous Aruban murderer, Joran.

Let's please get away from calling Joran famous.  He is infamous and from a dysfunctional self-absorbed, irresponsible (flower child) family.

I would also suggest "notorious" but would not want Joran remotely associated with Cary Grant or Ingrid Bergman.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 04:37:16 AM
About the embrace-bit...
The original says:

"Ik zal hem niet opzoeken in zijn cel, ik kan hem niet omarmen."

Literally that says:

"I will not visit (or look him up) him in his cell, I can not embrace him."

The Dutch word "zal" means more or less "will not" in the sense of "now and in the future".
So again, I think she's done with him.
That's kind of what she meant when she said: I have to let him go.


I have to run now! Going to a birthday party. Be back later.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 20, 2010, 05:01:52 AM
As Anna pointed out to silly me a few pages back, adult bodies do get put in suitcases.

Pearla Louis, 52 - found in a suitcase in San Francisco bay last month. A man named Lee Bell, with whom she had a relationship (but who abused her) has been arrested.

Jasmine Fiore – a model and reality show star, found in a suitcase outside a hotel near San Diego. We all remember this one - they tracked her husband, Ryan Jenkins, who ultimately committed suicide in a motel in British Columbia.

These must be tiny people and big suitcases.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Mary Ann on June 20, 2010, 06:02:52 AM
This  translation "language" is driving me nuts!!! I don't care what happens to Joran. The only thing that matters is that Natalee's body comes home so she can have a proper burial. That is all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jjayinthemorning on June 20, 2010, 06:53:21 AM
This  translation "language" is driving me nuts!!! I don't care what happens to Joran. The only thing that matters is that Natalee's body comes home so she can have a proper burial. That is all.
Yep. All this attention is just what a sociopath thrives on. He's sucking everyone into his drama. The media is feeding him.
The important thing is to bury the dead properly, to bring Natalee home.
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 20, 2010, 06:53:24 AM
Thanks to Jo-An and Buckeye for posting anita's interview....going to have to reread it a couple more times

Yes, thank you.

CBB, I saw your note about the avis.  Thanks for all you do to brighten up my character.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 20, 2010, 07:08:10 AM
Good morning and Happy Father's Day! \_/? coffee and poptarts [:::] for everyone! Hugs and thanks for everything you do Mods!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 20, 2010, 07:13:33 AM
This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.


(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/sueann37/Natalee/pondbehindjorans.jpg)

Was this pond ever checked?


Blonde if no one else has answered. I think this is the pond that Tim and his people tried to search, but it was too full of trash and the people watching them threw rocks at them.

If this is the one I am thinking of it was Dutch media that was throwing rocks at them.  I remember thinking WTH? 
Thank You I though I was  invisible. Hmmm I think this would be a wonderful place to search.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 20, 2010, 07:43:46 AM
Part one of the interview - the frontpage of De Telegraaf

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - June 19th 2010

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2474/img057v.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/img057v.jpg/)


Joran's mother breaks silence
"[/size]My son is sick in his head"

ORANJESTAD (Aruba) - Saturday
by special reporters Johan van den Heuvel en Bert Huisjes

The Mother of Joran, Anita van der Sloot, breaks the silence after many years. She says her son got into heavy psychological trouble.
Anita van der Sloot tells her story today exclusively in De Telegraaf. She said yes to a meeting with reporters, because she finds the image of Joran as "a monster" doesn't tell the whole story.
She doesn't rule out that he migt have killed Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flee she was in contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt like he was being "followed and watched".
According to her Joran was in heavy psychological distress after his father died. She says he blamed himself for his early death.

In the interview with De Telegraaf she says that Joran left for Peru, to escape from being admitted to a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.
"He had agreed to being admitted. But two days before he was supposed to leave for the Netherlands, he left the house."
The only thing she found, was a note that she shouldn't worry.
The director of Castro Castro yesterday tried to convince Joran van der Sloot to have an interview with CNN about the "excellent conditions in his cell" and him being treated well.
When Joran said no, he was taken out of his cell and reporters were given access to his cell. They were allowed to take pictures and shoot videos. The director indicated that Joran has a real bed in his cell with a mattress, running water, a towel and a bible to read from. His toilet is a hole in the ground.
Van der Sloot for now has the privilege of the heavily guarded cell, close to the director's office. This is a precaution, so that no one can cause him any harm.
Monday he has a court appearance.



Thanks Jo-An.
Anita was in contact with Joran "during his flee" - good ole behind the scenes Anita. Still trying to save her son from the consequences of his actions.
She was busy advising her son during his escape to Chile. Sick in the head, the new talking point we shall hear over and over and over. 
If, and that's a big if, Joran was to check into a closed section of a clinic prior to leaving Aruba, it was to ameliorate his problems with extortion/fraud.  Sick in the head was used by a cousin in the Netherlands,
Joran said he was sick in the head when examined by a doctor in Castro, Castro.  We thought maybe it translated to headache. 
Anita has put all on notice.  Sick in the head - plan to hear it often.

A cold blooded sociopath/predator who takes what he wants when he wants it, is too sensitive a term for Anita.  It leaves the sporter accountable.

Justice for Natalee and Stefany. 




Wow!  Anita has the same spooky eyes as her son.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 07:59:03 AM
http://www.rnw.nl/international-justice/article/joran-van-der-sloot-open-jail

Joran van der Sloot to open in jail

Published on : 20 June 2010 - 12:08pm | By Pablo Gámez    (RNW)

The case against Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot gets underway on Monday, he will hear the charges against him during a formal opening in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Peru where he is being held.

The charges will be read out against the Dutchman by Judge Carlos Morales.

The arraignment will take place behind closed doors. In legal terms, what follows is the pre-trial investigation. Van der Sloot's detention can be extended up to twelve months.

During the investigation, the authorities will try to clarify the facts and determine any guilt. Police sources earlier reported that van der Sloot had confessed to the murder of 21-yearold Stephany Flores.

Student Flores was seen on CCTV entering van der Sloot's hotel room after the two had been at a poker tournament - the next day she was found dead and in the meantime van der Sloot had fled to Chile. He was handed back over to the Peruvian authorities after giving himself up to police.

Lawyers for van der Sloot have remained silent but question marks are said to have been raised about the confession.

If declared guilty, Van der Sloot faces a minimum of 15 years imprisonment.

In an exclusive interview with Radio Netherlands Worldwide, Edward Álvarez, lawyer of the Flores family, insists that despite concerns that Joran van der Sloot will get a fair trial in Peru:

"Peru is a democracy and therefore it has an unconditional respect for fundamental rights, among which the judiciary, and the institutions of the penal system guarantee that Joran van der Sloot's will get a fair trial. The principle of the assumption of innocence cannot be questioned until there is a solid and definite judgement."

The way in which Joran van der Sloot was put on display for the national and international press after his arrest provoked criticism in The Netherlands, suggesting that Van der Sloot "had already been condemned by the media."

Álvarez recognises that "there has been mass media attention. This happens frequently in the Peruvian legal system but we cannot, in any case, doubt the assumption of Joran van der Sloot's innocence. Neither can it be presented in a situation that affects his human dignity."

The organisation Prison Law, which supports prisoners worldwide, is one of the bodies that has raised concerns. Spokeswoman Rachel Imamkhan says he has little trust in the Peruvian justice system.

"My experience is that there is little chance of a fair trial in that country. Peru is a party to international treaties but in practice you see little of that."

What may help, according to Imamkhan is the international attention for the case

Evidence
Judge Morales Córdova will have at his disposal the results of psychological and psychiatric tests of Joran van der Sloot, as well as the autopsy report and expert reports in the preliminary investigation.

But Álvarez says there are still gaps:

"There are still many things to finish in the pre-trial investigation. One of the primary things is the reading of the contents of Joran van der Sloot's laptop. We do not know yet what information it contains. We also need to investigate the record of telephone calls that Stephany Flores received. We know that she received calls from Joran during the days before her death. There are people at the casino that were aware of Joran van der Sloot's presence: whether he won money and whether it is true if he entered the place with so much money."

The hard disc of Van der Sloot's computer could also contain information about the murder of US citizen Nathalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. Van der Sloot remains a suspect in that unresolved case.


Aruba and the US have already asked Peru about the kind of information that the laptop contains.

Extradition
Lawyer Álvarez insists that Joran van der Sloot "will definitely not be extradited. Peru does not have an agreement with the Netherlands, which makes this scenario impossible. Van der Sloot will have to serve his sentence in Peru."

RNW sources who wish to remain anonymous say that Joran van der Sloot's mother is trying to manage her son's extradition to the Netherlands.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 08:00:23 AM
Anita knows, Paulus knew, Valentijn knows, Sabastian knows and Joran knows he killed Natalee and Stephany.   Anita can live in denial for the rest of her life but deep down she knows.

I totally agree......... Anita knows! I'm not sure that she knew he murdered Natalee from day one, but at some point she came to know.

I think she always knew, deep down, that he was capable of murder.

I think so too and I do not believe he is crazy--she just wants everyone to think it,imo.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: sharon on June 20, 2010, 08:03:06 AM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Some of Kalpoe testimony seems to lead to that conclusion as well and was it not around June 10 that the wild goose chase to the Light house after a confession soon withdrawn by a madman and his parents took place


IIRC -- one of the kalpoes (Deepak, I think) made the comment 'I never should have left him alone with the girl'

Anyone remember that (or have that quote saved?)

Happy Father's Day to all the daddy monkeys.

We are so much closer to Justice for Natalee, Justice for Stephany is on it's way.

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE & STEPHANY


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: sharon on June 20, 2010, 08:13:22 AM
@klaasend

Thank you very much, Klaasend.
I myself have no back up.





I probably have 80% of them saved.

But I thought klaas had them saved in a thread here.

I'm out for the day -- will check later and will post what I have (if not already here)

Buckeye probably has many saved as well -- I know she brought many over from Scrux


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 08:18:25 AM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Some of Kalpoe testimony seems to lead to that conclusion as well and was it not around June 10 that the wild goose chase to the Light house after a confession soon withdrawn by a madman and his parents took place


IIRC -- one of the kalpoes (Deepak, I think) made the comment 'I never should have left him alone with the girl'

Anyone remember that (or have that quote saved?)

Happy Father's Day to all the daddy monkeys.

We are so much closer to Justice for Natalee, Justice for Stephany is on it's way.

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE & STEPHANY


One source is People Magazine.  I know we probably have the primary source.  It was Deepak talking to John.:

But Aruban police did not detain Joran or his friends; instead, on June 5, they arrested Mickey John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, two former hotel security guards described to them by the three young men. John and Jones were held for eight days before being released. "I was trying to clear my name, but they wouldn't listen because of what those boys said about us," says John, who was still in jail when Joran and his friends were arrested June 9. Deepak Kalpoe was given the cell next to him, but since they could not see each other, "he didn't know I was one of the guards he had lied about," says John. John claims Kalpoe told him he made up the story about dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn where she was staying. Instead, he and his brother dropped Joran and Natalee off near a different hotel, the Marriott, before going home. Around 3 a.m. that night, Kalpoe got a text message from Joran "saying that they needed to talk," says John. Joran never called him, but still Kalpoe "was very upset," claims John. "He said he should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy." [/b]

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20148066,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 20, 2010, 08:35:54 AM
So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Some of Kalpoe testimony seems to lead to that conclusion as well and was it not around June 10 that the wild goose chase to the Light house after a confession soon withdrawn by a madman and his parents took place


IIRC -- one of the kalpoes (Deepak, I think) made the comment 'I never should have left him alone with the girl'

Anyone remember that (or have that quote saved?)

Happy Father's Day to all the daddy monkeys.

We are so much closer to Justice for Natalee, Justice for Stephany is on it's way.

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE & STEPHANY


But Aruban police did not detain Joran or his friends; instead, on June 5, they arrested Mickey John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, two former hotel security guards described to them by the three young men. John and Jones were held for eight days before being released. "I was trying to clear my name, but they wouldn't listen because of what those boys said about us," says John, who was still in jail when Joran and his friends were arrested June 9. Deepak Kalpoe was given the cell next to him, but since they could not see each other, "he didn't know I was one of the guards he had lied about," says John. John claims Kalpoe told him he made up the story about dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn where she was staying. Instead, he and his brother dropped Joran and Natalee off near a different hotel, the Marriott, before going home. Around 3 a.m. that night, Kalpoe got a text message from Joran "saying that they needed to talk," says John. Joran never called him, but still Kalpoe "was very upset," claims John. "He said he should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy."

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20148066,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 08:42:00 AM
Sorry, I had to look up a soccer score. Deperate ppl are out of range.
..
The article that I posted somewhere in the many tags says that Joran is being charged with simple theft also. Mr. Flores says that they do not have the complete story as they have not opened the laptop and they have not talked to a new friend that Joran made in the casino the night that he met Stephany. Another poker player, named Erik. The family wants him charged high. Just from all that I have read, I think he was interested in Stephany because she had money and won big in the casino on May 28. If he knew she came from a family that had money, I think it could have been a robbery motive to begin with. We only have his word for the FB threat and if they were playing on line, whose money was used for credit ??   
Hopefully, the Judge will order that the laptop be analyzed tomorrow.
The first day of Spring, and another day of Hell for Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 09:24:31 AM
Google translation.

Joran van der Sloot will not speak
Dutchman's lawyer says that will keep silent in the hearing tomorrow. The inmate's mother said that her son "is traumatized."

Netherlands seek to prolong the judicial process. (USI)
In silence. This will keep the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the interrogation that the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima held tomorrow for the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez (21).

The foreign lawyer, Max Navarro Highness, said his client will not say a word until accepted for habeas corpus presented to the judiciary to override the police investigation. With this measure, HH Van der Sloot seeks to return to testify to the police with the presence of a prosecutor, a translator and self-defense.

Standby counsel argued before the judicial authorities that the Dutchman killed Stephany Flores pushed by a "violent emotion" and not theft. In this way, the alien may receive a lesser sentence to 15 years in prison.

The judicial examination has been scheduled for 10:00 am at the Miguel Castro Castro prison, where the Dutchman has been detained since 11 June.

LAWYERS COME. On the other hand, HH reported that within 15 days, arrive in the country foreign lawyers of Van der Sloot.

It was learned that among them would be Joseph Tacopina, who also defended the singer Michael Jackson when he was accused of sexual assault against minors. Tacopina defended Van der Sloot when he was tried for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl in 2005.

"Not a monster." Meanwhile, Dutchman's mother, Anita van der Sloot, defended the innocence of his son in a letter written to the news network ABC. In the letter, the mother said that Joran "is not the monster that you would like (the media). " In addition, said his son is "traumatized, depressed and has an addiction."

The foreign parent imprisoned in Peru insisted that Joran van der Sloot "is not a murderer" and that the situation in which it is involved "sucks" because it is "a big trap against him." The Dutchman's lawyer denied that the mother or relatives of his client are arriving in the capital in the coming days.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/497848/joran-van-der-sloot-no-hablara?utm_source=PeruNewsFeed.com&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 20, 2010, 09:28:40 AM

Joran Van der Sloot may have killed Stephany Flores, says his mom: report

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/06/20/2010-06-20_joran_van_der_sloot_may_have_killed_stephany_flores_says_his_mom_report.html#ixzz0rOq2iZ2k


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 09:29:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/20/report-murder-suspect-van-der-sloot-mental-problems-mother-says/

Mother of Murder Suspect Van Der Sloot Says He Is 'Sick in His Head'


AMSTERDAM (AP) — Joran van der Sloot, the main suspect in the killing of a young woman in Peru last month and in the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teenager Natalee Holloway, has mental problems, his mother has told a Dutch newspaper in an interview.

"My son is sick in his head," De Telegraaf quotes Anita van der Sloot as saying.

She says he traveled to Peru to avoid being committed to a mental institution in Aruba, where the family lives.

(snipped)


Joran's current laptop may not have much information regarding the murder of Natalee Holloway but it likely will tell us how much of a liar Anita is and likely show those involved in Joran's escape to Peru (Anita, Renfro, Guillen, Medleyrelay, etc).  I just thought about that after Anita's statements in the press.  I have a feeling Peru won't be as kind to people that lie to them as Aruba was.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 20, 2010, 09:41:30 AM
http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

Two other women were mysteriously disappeared in Columbia while Joran van der Sloot was there for the Latin American Poker Tournament, reports revealed on Saturday. Both women disappeared prior to van der Sloot's arrival in Peru.

The Dutchman has confessed to murdering a young Peruvian student, Stephany Flores, after meeting her in a casino.

Van der Sloot is also the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway from Aruba in 2005. 

What's more disturbing?  The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished.    ????[/b]


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 09:44:23 AM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.

What does she mean, "i will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him.."  does that mean she literally can't hug him, or she can not 'embrace'/accept what he has done, so she won't see him? 

Reading the original interview, Anita literally means that she can't embrace/hug him - because she has no feelings/love for him anymore.
I think she meant to say: I don't want to visit him in prison, because I don't want to hug/embrace him.

Thanks Jo-an.    I was just rereading this again, and I think she means it as she can not support him anymore. Almost as in she had done all she can do for him, and he is on his own now. 

In the Telegraaf interview Anita told the paper she does not believe Joran killed Holloway.

"But if he killed Stephany, he'll have to pay the price. I won't visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him," she was quoted saying.

She said Joran's mental health had deteriorated steadily from the time of the Holloway disappearance. She attributed his decline in part to intense media scrutiny.

She told the paper he had called her several days before Flores' death.

"He said he was being followed. He had been arrested together with a girl and robbed. He was not making sense," the paper quoted her as saying.

"I can't cry for Joran like I did for Paul. I hope that he gets psychological help."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 09:52:15 AM
http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

Two other women were mysteriously disappeared in Columbia while Joran van der Sloot was there for the Latin American Poker Tournament, reports revealed on Saturday. Both women disappeared prior to van der Sloot's arrival in Peru.

The Dutchman has confessed to murdering a young Peruvian student, Stephany Flores, after meeting her in a casino.

Van der Sloot is also the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway from Aruba in 2005. 

What's more disturbing?  The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished.    ????[/b]

The only problem with this story about the Colombian girls is that it's gone nowhere.  So either there's no way it could be true or it's on the back burner.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 20, 2010, 09:55:44 AM
http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

Two other women were mysteriously disappeared in Columbia while Joran van der Sloot was there for the Latin American Poker Tournament, reports revealed on Saturday. Both women disappeared prior to van der Sloot's arrival in Peru.

The Dutchman has confessed to murdering a young Peruvian student, Stephany Flores, after meeting her in a casino.

Van der Sloot is also the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway from Aruba in 2005. 

What's more disturbing?  The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished.    ????[/b]

The only problem with this story about the Colombian girls is that it's gone nowhere.  So either there's no way it could be true or it's on the back burner.

I was wondering about that. I hadn't heard that he was seen with them. I had heard he was only at the airport or something.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 10:03:29 AM
http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

Two other women were mysteriously disappeared in Columbia while Joran van der Sloot was there for the Latin American Poker Tournament, reports revealed on Saturday. Both women disappeared prior to van der Sloot's arrival in Peru.

The Dutchman has confessed to murdering a young Peruvian student, Stephany Flores, after meeting her in a casino.

Van der Sloot is also the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway from Aruba in 2005. 

What's more disturbing?  The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished.    ????[/b]

The only problem with this story about the Colombian girls is that it's gone nowhere.  So either there's no way it could be true or it's on the back burner.

Didn't the police chief in Columbia say that there were no missing women from that time frame? He had a news conference and announced that, I believe. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 10:04:50 AM
ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.

What does she mean, "i will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him.."  does that mean she literally can't hug him, or she can not 'embrace'/accept what he has done, so she won't see him? 

Reading the original interview, Anita literally means that she can't embrace/hug him - because she has no feelings/love for him anymore.
I think she meant to say: I don't want to visit him in prison, because I don't want to hug/embrace him.

Thanks Jo-an.    I was just rereading this again, and I think she means it as she can not support him anymore. Almost as in she had done all she can do for him, and he is on his own now. 

In the Telegraaf interview Anita told the paper she does not believe Joran killed Holloway.

"But if he killed Stephany, he'll have to pay the price. I won't visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him," she was quoted saying.

She said Joran's mental health had deteriorated steadily from the time of the Holloway disappearance. She attributed his decline in part to intense media scrutiny.

She told the paper he had called her several days before Flores' death.

"He said he was being followed. He had been arrested together with a girl and robbed. He was not making sense," the paper quoted her as saying.

"I can't cry for Joran like I did for Paul. I hope that he gets psychological help."


It's easy to see where Joran gets his propensity to tell lies rather than the truth:  Anita, who said she had not spoken with nor seen Joran since Paulus' death, then she says she spoke with him a few days before Stephany's death and still later, says she spoke with him leading up to and during his flee.  Then she tells everyone that Joran is innocent, that he is mentally ill, that she is going to Peru and does not go and then she says she is borrowing money to go and then we see she has Tacopino's crew already hired.

What's a person to believe from this bunch of lying bags from Aruba?  Do they expect us to believe something is wrong with us, or there is something in their water that makes them the most pathetic and gross liars in the universe?  Do they not know that we can see through their lies?  What about the fact that Tacopino is finished with Anita and Joran and yet his foot boy, Les Levine, has involved himself not only in the case in the background but a public television appearance.  Is there no end to the lies they tell?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 20, 2010, 10:07:41 AM
http://www.gambling911.com/poker/joran-van-der-sloot-may-be-responsible-two-more-murders-062010.html

Two other women were mysteriously disappeared in Columbia while Joran van der Sloot was there for the Latin American Poker Tournament, reports revealed on Saturday. Both women disappeared prior to van der Sloot's arrival in Peru.

The Dutchman has confessed to murdering a young Peruvian student, Stephany Flores, after meeting her in a casino.

Van der Sloot is also the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway from Aruba in 2005. 

What's more disturbing?  The same Columbian women were, indeed seen with van der Sloot the day before they both vanished.    ????[/b]

The only problem with this story about the Colombian girls is that it's gone nowhere.  So either there's no way it could be true or it's on the back burner.

Didn't the police chief in Columbia say that there were no missing women from that time frame? He had a news conference and announced that, I believe. 

Yes, I saw that but when I read this article I wasn't sure if something new had happened.
As usual I'm always a day late and a dollar short!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 10:13:29 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/20/report-murder-suspect-van-der-sloot-mental-problems-mother-says/

Mother of Murder Suspect Van Der Sloot Says He Is 'Sick in His Head'


AMSTERDAM (AP) — Joran van der Sloot, the main suspect in the killing of a young woman in Peru last month and in the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teenager Natalee Holloway, has mental problems, his mother has told a Dutch newspaper in an interview.

"My son is sick in his head," De Telegraaf quotes Anita van der Sloot as saying.

She says he traveled to Peru to avoid being committed to a mental institution in Aruba, where the family lives.

(snipped)


Joran's current laptop may not have much information regarding the murder of Natalee Holloway but it likely will tell us how much of a liar Anita is and likely show those involved in Joran's escape to Peru (Anita, Renfro, Guillen, Medleyrelay, etc).  I just thought about that after Anita's statements in the press.  I have a feeling Peru won't be as kind to people that lie to them as Aruba was.




I'm thinking the same Klaas-perhaps that is the main reason Anita isn't traveling to Peru--just yet-or if ever.  Also, any communication while in or exiting Peru ... hmmm ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 20, 2010, 10:16:22 AM
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/10170-das-rules-out-dutchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

comments are interesting


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 10:18:15 AM
If Anita has no intention to go to Peru, perhaps she could send Julia Renfro.  I am sure the residents at Miguel Castro Castro would appreciate a female journalist of her character and caliber.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 20, 2010, 10:18:29 AM

But Aruban police did not detain Joran or his friends; instead, on June 5, they arrested Mickey John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, two former hotel security guards described to them by the three young men. John and Jones were held for eight days before being released. "I was trying to clear my name, but they wouldn't listen because of what those boys said about us," says John, who was still in jail when Joran and his friends were arrested June 9. Deepak Kalpoe was given the cell next to him, but since they could not see each other, "he didn't know I was one of the guards he had lied about," says John. John claims Kalpoe told him he made up the story about dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn where she was staying. Instead, he and his brother dropped Joran and Natalee off near a different hotel, the Marriott, before going home. Around 3 a.m. that night, Kalpoe got a text message from Joran "saying that they needed to talk," says John. Joran never called him, but still Kalpoe "was very upset," claims John. "He said he should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy."

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20148066,00.html


Deepak Kalpoe related to one of the security guards while they were both detained in the same period of time in June, 2005 that he was a participant along with Paulus van der Sloot and others in the collaboration of the Holiday Inn fabrication.

Considering the Holiday Inn fabrication was conveyed to Jug and Beth in the early hours of May 31, 2005, the meeting Deepak had with Paulus and others must taken place prior to the Twitty groups arrival at the VDS' residence.

Deepak had to have been aware that Natalee Holloway was deceased on May 30, 2005 or he would not have been a participant in a lie ... a lie that would be exposed if a live Natalee had turned up. 
__________

MICKEY JOHN

Former Aruba Suspect Alleges Plot!
Wednesday, June 29, 2005


MICKEY JOHN, FORMER SUSPECT: ... He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: The father, too?

JOHN: All of them. They made up...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?

JOHN: Well, I don't know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 20, 2010, 10:21:22 AM
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/10170-das-rules-out-dutchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

comments are interesting

yes they certianly are! Thank you Nut :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 10:22:26 AM
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/10170-das-rules-out-dutchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

comments are interesting

Thank you for posting this.  The comments are interesting, to say the last.  However, I suspected that there was a whitewash of this story early on, as girls from Venezuela and Colombia hold no value for their respective countries unless they are the children of some very important person, just like the girls from Thailand, and it makes me wonder how many he murdered are deported for his monetary gain while in Thailand.  Surely, the coffee house was not something he loved, but a catalyst for something else that paid bigger dividends than a cuppa Joe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 10:23:30 AM
If Anita has no intention to go to Peru, perhaps she could send Julia Renfro.  I am sure the residents at Miguel Castro Castro would appreciate a female journalist of her character and caliber.

Lol-I don't any of them have any inention of putting one toe in Peru!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 10:25:24 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 10:25:53 AM
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/10170-das-rules-out-dutchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

comments are interesting

Extremely so ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 10:27:18 AM
Sorry, I had to look up a soccer score. Deperate ppl are out of range.
..
The article that I posted somewhere in the many tags says that Joran is being charged with simple theft also. Mr. Flores says that they do not have the complete story as they have not opened the laptop and they have not talked to a new friend that Joran made in the casino the night that he met Stephany. Another poker player, named Erik. The family wants him charged high. Just from all that I have read, I think he was interested in Stephany because she had money and won big in the casino on May 28. If he knew she came from a family that had money, I think it could have been a robbery motive to begin with. We only have his word for the FB threat and if they were playing on line, whose money was used for credit ??   
Simple theft, eh? For CHRISSSSSSSSSSSSSAKE, the jerk took her car, credit cards, and money. Then he brutally murdered her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 10:29:03 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 10:35:34 AM
van der Sloot remains isolated in the Miguel Castro Castro prison
No prisoner or person outside the prison can access the area where he said the director of INPE

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, confessed murderer of the young student Stephany Flores, spends part of his life in prison rudimentary training with a weight made of plastic bottles filled with water and a broom handle with the shortcomings of the Peruvian prisons.

The Dutchman has been detained since Friday in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in a populous district located east of Lima, where he was assigned a one-man cell of 2 by 3.5 meters, with a bed, a sink and a silo as unique amenities.

The cell is in Van der Sloot Prevention Pavilion, a small area away from other inmates, and opposite direction, as a security measure.

"He told me he feared for his life," said the director of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), Ruben Rodriguez, after stating that there is no possibility that bystanders and other inmates access to that area.

He said the EU will remain there as long as they want, and that "if he asks to go to another site with the remainder going to the rest."

ACCOMPANYING OSPINA
The Dutchman's only companion is Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, a Colombian hit man accident that killed Myriam Fefer Peruvian entrepreneur, and recently was extradited to Peru. Trujillo agrees with Van der Sloot the weight scale is manufactured with a broom handle and plastic bottles.

"They are together, adjacent their cells, they share the TV you have Trujillo. He (Van der Sloot) is watching TV there, "in the cell of Colombia, Rodriguez said.

Van der Sloot faces a sentence of between 15 and 35 years in prison on charges of simple murder and theft, for the murder of Stephany Flores in the hotel room where he was staying on Sunday 30 May.

Next Monday will be questioned by Judge Carlos Morales, head of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima, in the same prison in a private care.

Rodriguez noted that the Dutchman has not received any phone calls from their family, and has said he does not want to be visited by anyone, but last Tuesday was visited by an envoy of the consul of the Netherlands.

The evangelical pastor Héctor Allende, a former bank robber who served prison inmates and now preaches, says that in prison there curiosity by the presence of Van der Sloot for being a new procedure. But consider that in no danger of the other inmates to cause harm.

"When it comes to killing an adult with indifference, not so much value and are not judged by it (to kill), only if you have killed a child," he said.

CASTRO CASTRO
The prison, with a capacity for 1,200 inmates but which is home to 1594, consists of 12 buildings of three stories each, and prisoners are separated according to the crime they have committed, terrorism, drug trafficking, kidnapping, murder, robbery , and others.

Currently there are about 300 prisoners for terrorism, and about 80 foreign inmates, most Colombians and Mexicans convicted of drug trafficking, according to Ricardo La Serna, director of the Episcopal Commission for Social Action, a Catholic NGO that defends human rights of inmates.

However, the last criminal charge of a slaughter of prisoners in 1992, following a military operation to quell a mutiny of terrorist prisoners who were opposed to being transferred to another prison, the government of then President Alberto Fujimori.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/497579/joran-van-der-sloot-permanece-aislado-penal-miguel-castro-castro?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Actually, I hope he gets the same brutal, agonizing beating he gave to Stephany. I want this a$$wipe to feel something before he dies.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 10:36:18 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:37:18 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

I can imagine a scenario where Joran is raping Natalee (or all 3) and she gets hurt.  Kalpoes get scared and leave.  Joran kills Natalee so she won't talk, much like he did to Stephany. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 10:38:00 AM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed but I have been wondering if Stephany's neck was broken after she was dead ?
Here is why: In Joran's sick mind he may have tried to fold her dead body into that duffel bag breaking her neck in the process due to frustration
This would also explain why her clothes were removed
Stephany was not as thin as Natalee so he may have just given up on the suitcase idea and decided to run

Has it ever been determined just how much cash he stole from her ?
Western Union transactions should be checked - I think that he called Anita - to wire her some cash...Just In Case (it would be so great if that were true and exposed)

Also I think when they say he had not paid for his room they were referring to the 2-3 days he was on the run - If you notice the clerk holds the room key as Joran had to pick it up when he walked in with Stephany - No pay - No Key

I'm waiting to hear all the evidence and forensics.  Very possible he broke her neck in an attempt to hide her body somehow. 
I really think he stomped her to death.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:40:57 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 10:47:30 AM
Oh dear, let me quickly point out that I was referring to the "persecution" translation.

I saw Geraldo's show. I think I remember Kitty saying that she thought Anita wanted to wait until the media frenzy dies down before she goes.
He won't live that long. He truly is a dead man walking. Even Vegas won't touch that bet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 10:47:35 AM
Is this guy - Les Levine - Anita's private investigator?

Let me guess. The answer to Stephany's murder lies in Mountain Brook.

Yawn.


MsMarple. . .now that's funny!  Yes, there are a lot of people I would like to ask if this is what they are still thinking.  Blame anybody but Joran, even kids who just happened to be on the trip with his victim.  That always made me see red the way some slugs hounded those kids.


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 10:48:34 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 20, 2010, 10:52:35 AM
Sorry, I had to look up a soccer score. Deperate ppl are out of range.
..
The article that I posted somewhere in the many tags says that Joran is being charged with simple theft also. Mr. Flores says that they do not have the complete story as they have not opened the laptop and they have not talked to a new friend that Joran made in the casino the night that he met Stephany. Another poker player, named Erik. The family wants him charged high. Just from all that I have read, I think he was interested in Stephany because she had money and won big in the casino on May 28. If he knew she came from a family that had money, I think it could have been a robbery motive to begin with. We only have his word for the FB threat and if they were playing on line, whose money was used for credit ??   
Hopefully, the Judge will order that the laptop be analyzed tomorrow.
The first day of Spring, and another day of Hell for Joran.
DUH, I meant summer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:53:47 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."

According to this article ARUBA
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/20/report-murder-suspect-van-der-sloot-mental-problems-mother-says/

:-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 10:56:37 AM
Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.



Klaas, are you sure?  I thought she said The NL.  And weren't some addicts sent to Curacao for treatment from Aruba recently?

But I was thinking Anita wanted Joran back in The NL far away from the FBI.  Not sure about that, however.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 10:57:40 AM
He fled to Peru to avoid getting arrested by the FBI and probably because he came up with funds to support his gambling in the tournament..  He didn't flee from the mental hospital.  He could just so no to commitment.  It couldn't have been an emergency commitment (against his will) because there would be no appointment.  No reason to flee because of that.

He went along with anything Anita said to feed into her thoughts of helping the poor, traumatized boy.  He knew that was her Achilles heel.  He played/manipulated her.

If his family was so normal and his father was not connected, how in the world does he get the attention of the Netherlands?  I've never heard about other Dutch (really Aruban) prisoners with so much support.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 20, 2010, 10:58:05 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."
Hello Monkeys,
Anita is only trying to cover up the monters flee to Peru because he was trying to scape from the FBI. At this point I think that Natalee's mom should be in Peru, I know it is difficult for her but the media is playing a very important roll in this case and not too many people know the true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 10:58:56 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

I can imagine a scenario where Joran is raping Natalee (or all 3) and she gets hurt.  Kalpoes get scared and leave.  Joran kills Natalee so she won't talk, much like he did to Stephany. 

Yes-I can too;  I also think it reasonble to consider those rocks as a potential crimescene, but for now, I still think they spent way too much time out there, making a big production out of it ... something a little fishy about that.   When I weigh that against the fact that the Sloot house was such a "do-not-enter"  fortress-it still makes me think something happened there, and could have been the crimescene also.  Even Beth 'felt' Natalee had been there.

The problem is-lying seems to be quite socially acceptable on Aruba, so much so, that just about anything goes & the truth is treated as a 'hot potato' being tossed from one suspect to another.  The game on Aruba is do whatever you want-just don't get caught.

It's no wonder Joran lies-that's the way of life he has grown up with and as far as his being crazy, I think he's spoiled rotten and has always been indulged, - in that bad behaviour is always excused and temper tantrums rationalized away by his ever-loving enabling Mums& Daddums.  It's the other person's fault, don'cha know?    Even when he made a public spectacle out of himself by tossing wine in de Vries' face on TV-he was not chastized for it nor did any apology pass his or their lips I don't think.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 10:59:37 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."

According to this article ARUBA
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/20/report-murder-suspect-van-der-sloot-mental-problems-mother-says/

:-)

Weird.
I have the original newspaper here in my hands and it says nothing about a facility in Aruba.
Nor does it mention anything about `where the family lives`.

Strange...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 20, 2010, 11:00:02 AM
He fled to Peru to avoid getting arrested by the FBI and probably because he came up with funds to support his gambling in the tournament..  He didn't flee from the mental hospital.  He could just so no to commitment.  It couldn't have been an emergency commitment (against his will) because there would be no appointment.  No reason to flee because of that.

He went along with anything Anita said to feed into her thoughts of helping the poor, traumatized boy.  He knew that was her Achilles heel.  He played/manipulated her.

If his family was so normal and his father was not connected, how in the world does he get the attention of the Netherlands?  I've never heard about other Dutch (really Aruban) prisoners with so much support.
Did Anita send money to the monster? or she knew the FBI will track her and for that reason she didnt send money.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 11:00:46 AM
Well, yet another conflict--location of alleged mental facility for Joran.

Since Anita is probably lying about it in the first place, maybe she's the one who can't keep her story straight.  But I suspect it's more bad reporting or translation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 11:01:09 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

Only one article said a facility in Aruba, the others said two days prior to his leaving for the Netherlands for entry in the Mental Health hospital he fled to Peru. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 11:01:25 AM
If they find her, they are going to see all that "shit.."  Hmmm, was that the various DNA's from various males, or was that from the beating she encountered.  "They will never find her."  Paulus and Joran made sure of that. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 11:01:56 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

Casa Sloot-lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 11:03:01 AM
AZSunny, I would only have to imagine that the "admission" to a mental facility was another way of appearing to have done something to get Joran help, to make her look better, to make him a victim.  If he is crazy, what does that say about her, her husband, and ALE who covered up for them and their spawn for years?  Is the whole place crazy?  Nevermind, I think we know the answer to that, but crazy is not the answer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 11:03:06 AM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

Anita said a mental facility in ARUBA.  There is one in Aruba but I don't recall the name of it.

It was indeed a Dutch one:

"I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him. He was running away from his treatment."

Thanks Jo-An.  I was just looking for that.  You are good!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 11:06:43 AM
Happy Father's Day to all the men who have raised their sons and daughters to be responsible people, who cared enough about their families to remain intact regardless of the monetary costs, the disagreements or whatever they encountered, God bless them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 11:08:39 AM
Ono, I agree with your above post.  That's pretty much my take on things as well.  I think the Sloot compound was the original crime scene and while Joran does have issues, IMO, they are nowhere close to the legal definition of right/wrong.

He fled and dyed his hair--proof he knew what he did was wrong.

Yes, Anita is distancing herself from Joran and it may well be because of what is on his computer or in his phone or money records.

I hope Peru will check all Western Union transactions in his name and if Anita knew he was fleeing Interpol and sent him money to assist him in doing so, I hope they issue a warrant for her arrest.  That may be why she doesn't want to go there.  And I hope Peru is very quiet about it and waits for her to arrive before making it known, lol. 

Wouldn't that be wonderful is she was caught and made to pay for her enabling her son in his murdering!  I am dreaming but still, it's possible. . .

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 11:09:42 AM
AZSunny, I would only have to imagine that the "admission" to a mental facility was another way of appearing to have done something to get Joran help, to make her look better, to make him a victim.  If he is crazy, what does that say about her, her husband, and ALE who covered up for them and their spawn for years?  Is the whole place crazy?  Nevermind, I think we know the answer to that, but crazy is not the answer.

Well, I think most agree he is a Psychopath, so that would indeed be crazy.  The reason I would like to confirm where he was to admitted was to confirm that in fact Anita was trying to do something for him, and not just lying again to cover his a$$...again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 11:16:04 AM
Yes, Anna-that would be wonderful!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cece on June 20, 2010, 11:39:56 AM
Video report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37808580#37808580

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/ANITA.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 11:40:53 AM
Ono, I agree with your above post.  That's pretty much my take on things as well.  I think the Sloot compound was the original crime scene and while Joran does have issues, IMO, they are nowhere close to the legal definition of right/wrong.

He fled and dyed his hair--proof he knew what he did was wrong.

Yes, Anita is distancing herself from Joran and it may well be because of what is on his computer or in his phone or money records.

I hope Peru will check all Western Union transactions in his name and if Anita knew he was fleeing Interpol and sent him money to assist him in doing so, I hope they issue a warrant for her arrest.  That may be why she doesn't want to go there.  And I hope Peru is very quiet about it and waits for her to arrive before making it known, lol. 

Wouldn't that be wonderful is she was caught and made to pay for her enabling her son in his murdering!  I am dreaming but still, it's possible. . .

.

Good thoughts, maybe that is why she is not going to Peru, she is afraid of arrest!  Wouldn't that be a hoot.  Cell mates...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 11:46:22 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

I agree Tyler.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 11:51:16 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

I can imagine a scenario where Joran is raping Natalee (or all 3) and she gets hurt.  Kalpoes get scared and leave.  Joran kills Natalee so she won't talk, much like he did to Stephany. 

I agree with this too.  I believe they Kalpoes were ordered to leave by Paulus.  Paulus and Joran took care of the rest.

The Kalpoes are guilty of Kidnapping and Rape.  If they weren't they would hand over the documents to Dr. Phil.

At this moment Deepak holds the key to this case.  I wouldn't be surprised if they found Deepak with his hand in his pocket.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 11:52:46 AM
Video report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37808580#37808580

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/ANITA.jpg)

This one also says Holland.  Personally I think it's all BS.  Joran is an adult and as he has proved before he can check himself in and out.  He has never wanted help. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 11:53:51 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

I agree Tyler.


Agree.  Also I believe Deepak told Joran in the infamous cop car recording that if they found "the girl" Joran would get 15 years, meaning in jail.  That's the penalty for murder there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 11:54:59 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

I can imagine a scenario where Joran is raping Natalee (or all 3) and she gets hurt.  Kalpoes get scared and leave.  Joran kills Natalee so she won't talk, much like he did to Stephany. 

I agree with this too.  I believe they Kalpoes were ordered to leave by Paulus.  Paulus and Joran took care of the rest.

The Kalpoes are guilty of Kidnapping and Rape.  If they weren't they would hand over the documents to Dr. Phil.

At this moment Deepak holds the key to this case.  I wouldn't be surprised if they found Deepak with his hand in his pocket.

The outlook for the Kalpoes is getting grimmer by the day.  Once it became clear that Dr. Phil and CBS weren't going to settle, the Kalpoes lost their usefulness IMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 11:55:45 AM
Deepak doesn't say "we will get 15 years" but rather "You (Joran) will get 15 years" if they find "the girl."



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 12:00:46 PM
Deepak doesn't say "we will get 15 years" but rather "You (Joran) will get 15 years" if they find "the girl."



Right and Deepak seemed to know the law.  I guess Dompig informed him well.

We had Van der Straaten helping Joran and in my opinion Dompig was helping the Kalpoes.

They are all disgusting and get what they deserve.

But the one person I want to see get his is Dennis Jacobs.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cece on June 20, 2010, 12:03:39 PM
Did I read reports that the Dutch media would be in Peru on Monday to interview Joran? 

How is that going to happen if the Judge will be conducting the interrogation on Monday.  I don't think the Dutch media will be allowed in.  Has anyone seen any more reports or updates on that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 12:11:45 PM
Google translation.

Joran van der Sloot will not speak
Dutchman's lawyer says that will keep silent in the hearing tomorrow. The inmate's mother said that her son "is traumatized."

Netherlands seek to prolong the judicial process. (USI)
In silence. This will keep the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the interrogation that the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima held tomorrow for the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez (21).

The foreign lawyer, Max Navarro Highness, said his client will not say a word until accepted for habeas corpus presented to the judiciary to override the police investigation. With this measure, HH Van der Sloot seeks to return to testify to the police with the presence of a prosecutor, a translator and self-defense.

Standby counsel argued before the judicial authorities that the Dutchman killed Stephany Flores pushed by a "violent emotion" and not theft. In this way, the alien may receive a lesser sentence to 15 years in prison.

The judicial examination has been scheduled for 10:00 am at the Miguel Castro Castro prison, where the Dutchman has been detained since 11 June.

LAWYERS COME. On the other hand, HH reported that within 15 days, arrive in the country foreign lawyers of Van der Sloot.

It was learned that among them would be Joseph Tacopina, who also defended the singer Michael Jackson when he was accused of sexual assault against minors. Tacopina defended Van der Sloot when he was tried for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl in 2005.

"Not a monster." Meanwhile, Dutchman's mother, Anita van der Sloot, defended the innocence of his son in a letter written to the news network ABC. In the letter, the mother said that Joran "is not the monster that you would like (the media). " In addition, said his son is "traumatized, depressed and has an addiction."

The foreign parent imprisoned in Peru insisted that Joran van der Sloot "is not a murderer" and that the situation in which it is involved "sucks" because it is "a big trap against him." The Dutchman's lawyer denied that the mother or relatives of his client are arriving in the capital in the coming days.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/497848/joran-van-der-sloot-no-hablara?utm_source=PeruNewsFeed.com&utm_medium=twitter

cece, Jo Ann posted this on page 52. I think this is the latest.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cece on June 20, 2010, 12:13:02 PM
http://searchwarp.com/swa595620-Joran-Van-Der-Sloots-Soul-Murders-Done-In-Cold-Blood.htm

     Joran van der Sloot's Soul :Murders Done In Cold Blood

Murder is usually a crime of passion, that is, at a murder scene, police usually suspect a family member, a lover or a spouse as a likely perpetrator first before any crime scene critical analysis comes in to play.
 
Murderers who kill in 'cold blood', very often do not know their victims beforehand, kill randomly without a tinge of regret or guilt.
Unlike a murder of passion, they do not plan a pre dug grave or dismember the corpse.
They may make no attempt to hide the bodies of their victims.
They may stop on a deserted road and open the hood of their car to flag down a helpful motorist and kill them with a gun.
They may lure a child into a car by asking them to help them find their lost puppy or by offering them a kitten and stab them to death.
They may stop at a truck stop to pick up a prostitute and strangle her afterwards leaving her body on the side of the road.
They are always careful to use different methods of murder so as to confuse police efforts to establish an M.O. or patterns as they travel from state to state.
 
A big, friendly, helpful smile, or a helpful assist from a total stranger is the last thing you'll ever see and you'll never see it coming.
These people are called serial killer psychopaths .
Joran van der Sloot is such a psychopath.

cont.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cece on June 20, 2010, 12:15:26 PM
Google translation.

Joran van der Sloot will not speak
Dutchman's lawyer says that will keep silent in the hearing tomorrow. The inmate's mother said that her son "is traumatized."

Netherlands seek to prolong the judicial process. (USI)
In silence. This will keep the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot in the interrogation that the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima held tomorrow for the murder of Flores Stephany Ramirez (21).

The foreign lawyer, Max Navarro Highness, said his client will not say a word until accepted for habeas corpus presented to the judiciary to override the police investigation. With this measure, HH Van der Sloot seeks to return to testify to the police with the presence of a prosecutor, a translator and self-defense.

Standby counsel argued before the judicial authorities that the Dutchman killed Stephany Flores pushed by a "violent emotion" and not theft. In this way, the alien may receive a lesser sentence to 15 years in prison.

The judicial examination has been scheduled for 10:00 am at the Miguel Castro Castro prison, where the Dutchman has been detained since 11 June.

LAWYERS COME. On the other hand, HH reported that within 15 days, arrive in the country foreign lawyers of Van der Sloot.

It was learned that among them would be Joseph Tacopina, who also defended the singer Michael Jackson when he was accused of sexual assault against minors. Tacopina defended Van der Sloot when he was tried for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway American girl in 2005.

"Not a monster." Meanwhile, Dutchman's mother, Anita van der Sloot, defended the innocence of his son in a letter written to the news network ABC. In the letter, the mother said that Joran "is not the monster that you would like (the media). " In addition, said his son is "traumatized, depressed and has an addiction."

The foreign parent imprisoned in Peru insisted that Joran van der Sloot "is not a murderer" and that the situation in which it is involved "sucks" because it is "a big trap against him." The Dutchman's lawyer denied that the mother or relatives of his client are arriving in the capital in the coming days.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/497848/joran-van-der-sloot-no-hablara?utm_source=PeruNewsFeed.com&utm_medium=twitter

cece, Jo Ann posted this on page 52. I think this is the latest.

Thank you :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 12:20:07 PM
Good morning everyone :)
Apparently Anita did not get the answers she wanted from the Queen, (royal weddings and all to attend to, no time for meetings with expatriated exiles), so someone must have told Anita to fall back on any devices she can muster ( insanity plea, treatment in a facility while incarcerated ) until the next Fiesta del Aruba takes her mind off of all the negative attention.
the negative attention is what I think hurts her the most- Paul is gone, no career or reputation to protect there. She could have been the Bingo queen, Patroness of the Arts, Extrordinaire, getting close to retirement, and now this. Joran fooks up her plans, again. Where is the sympathy for the Holloways? I see none.
 
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 12:21:46 PM
Thanks Jo ANN!! she has the hard copies as our roving reporter in the NL:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 12:32:03 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 12:35:35 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3
Winner!!!!! :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 12:38:01 PM
After his arrest in the Holloway case, van der Sloot should've gotten psychiatric help, his mother said.

So let me guess why he didn't.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 12:38:45 PM
LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 12:39:07 PM
Video report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37808580#37808580

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/ANITA.jpg)


Someone should let them know that Anita did quite a long interview with LiBelle, in June of 2007.  "Years" of not speaking out, is a bit of a stretch.  She blamed Natalee and her family for their family situation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 12:41:42 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3
Winner!!!!! :)

Nickname~ Poopsie


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 12:47:31 PM
From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 12:50:22 PM
what she really means is it's sad that she lost her son, she considers everyone else " collateral damage".
No empathy. None.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 12:52:19 PM
From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.

This makes me as angry as anything this hag says.  She has not lost her son because of the actions of Stephany Flores.  The FLores family has lost their daughter because of what Joran did.  It's HIS fault!

That makes all the difference.  Anita is the most self-centered person I can think of to see things in the perspective that her loss is anything compared to theirs.  Their child was beaten to death, died a horrible death at the hands of her son Joran.

Joran is prancing around in Castro Castro wearing his orange shirt and trying to decide what new lies to tell.  Joran killed Natalee and refused to tell what he did with her.  She knows where Joran is.  He's ALIVE.

Oh, this is going to give me another headache. . . .



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 12:54:52 PM
passes Excedrin Extra strength to Anna.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 12:57:48 PM
Video report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37808580#37808580

(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/seasidecece/ANITA.jpg)


Someone should let them know that Anita did quite a long interview with LiBelle, in June of 2007.  "Years" of not speaking out, is a bit of a stretch.  She blamed Natalee and her family for their family situation.

Remember this one too!  I'm sure it's here somewhere too, we talked about it extensively but I couldn't find it.

GBMW posted at RU

Interview Anita van der Sloot in Red / September 2008

Interview with Anita van der Sloot; published in the magazine Red / September 2008

Text by Renee Gielen

Photo by Julia Renfro
(scanned by Black-Tulip; thanks!)

On May, 30 2005 the 18 year old Natalee Holloway disappeared on Aruba. Joran van der Sloot is still considered a suspect. His mother Anita has recently tried to close this disruptive period in her life with an exposition.

(http://i38.tinypic.com/302cojl.jpg)


Anita, how did the affair of Holloway change your life?

‘From a professor who is intensely involved with students and from a mother who is intensely involved with her children, you’re suddenly the mother of a boy who is a suspect in a case concerning the disappearance of a girl. Who is a suspect of kidnapping, of rape, murder. This has a huge impact. It has hurt me in the depth of my soul. I’ve been especially angry with the approach of the media and how the reports were all one sided. Not being able to function as a regular family, the lies that have been spread about us. That has caused the most hurt, combined with Jorans’ behaviour. I was angry with him for lying. You see very often people drift apart when something awful happens in their lives, but Paul & I only became closer. We were already strong as a family, did a lot of things together, but we only came out stronger. We talk a lot with the children, express emotions much quicker.’

How is your relationship with Joran? Has it changed since May 2005?

Anita hesitates for a moment, and says then: 'Not really. I’m his mother and he is my son. Now and then I feel so much love for him, and now and then I want to kick his behind. Like: hey kid, why do you say that, and why do you do that? People see Joran like he was portrayed in the media. Of course, everyone gets a kick out of the negative things that are extricated. But I see how he kisses his grandmother and holds her hand for half an hour and runs his fingers through her hair. I see the Joran who makes me a cup of coffee, who comes to check in with me regularly when I’m sick: how are you, mum? Those are two different Jorans.

To me Joran is more important as a son, grandson and brother than as the Joran that is portrayed in the media. Joran was also just a regular 17 year old who went to school, got good grades, had nice girlfriends who came over, whose parents I knew, had nice friends, went out like any other 17 year old. Occasionally he did things that made you go: is that really necessary? But no more than other kids his age.

What the media has done with that is just bizarre. They’ve created some kind of monster. It’s got nothing to do with reality. And that has only gotten worse, because this case attracts really weird people. When this case is solved they will leave him alone probably, but he will always remain that kid ‘who was involved with’, the kid who lied, that will continue to haunt him for the rest of his live. And I’m also ‘the mother of’. I’m not the one who’s teaching, not the artist, no, I’m ‘the mother of’.’

Has there been a moment where you doubted Joran?

‘I’ve never thought Joran was a rapist or a murderer. But I have thought for a moment that possibly an accident might have happened, that he might have been afraid to tell? I know he lied because he was afraid he wouldn’t have a graduation party. That he didn’t want his girlfriend to know he went out that night. But if he really had something on his bad record; he would have told me, that kind of trust was there.’

How was it to literally deal with world press?

‘I thought it was bizarre. People are making tent camps around your walls all of a sudden. American media are very bold. We’ve tried to continue our lives as best as possible. I thought it was unpleasant for the children and for their friends when they came over to play. At a certain point we sent our children on a holiday, to friends, to release them from the forceful media.

We really wanted to show ourselves. We’ve always kept the door open for people that had good intentions, we had & have nothing to hide, and then all those stories that start their own life….you can’t stop that.

In the beginning, when that mother (of Natalee Holloway, ed) came here with a large group of friends, we were addressed with quite some aggression. Her behaviour, the conduct of that group… We wanted to talk to those parents, eventually we did. We’ve invited them later on, but we never got a reply. A year ago we wanted to talk to the mother when she was here. She just didn’t want to.’

How did you manage?

‘We just went on with our lives. It happened during summer break, which was nice in a way because I had more time to myself because of that. When the schools started again in August, I just went back to work and the kids went back to school. Paul moved on quickly as well. Working as a teacher is important, I can put a lot of energy in that. And we do our regular things. I do my groceries, I work in the garden, clean my house. Because I teach fulltime, I don’t have a lot of time to sculpture, but this whole mess gave me a lot of sleepless nights. And it still does. Every person would be afraid and tense in these kind of situations. You lose the grip on your life. You’re life is out there, put under a magnifying glass. Nobody can understand what’s it’s like to live in such a situation. Being creative gave me a way to express the negative emotions I felt. I started with a book, some kind of sketching book, in which I work daily. It helped to draw, to write, to paint. I love the combination of those disciplines, making collages, painting, writing… And this exhibition is also a reflection of that process. Here you see about 50 to 60 % of what I’ve made in the last two years. I think every person reaches out to something that gives them some kind of peace. To me that peace came from painting and working with collages. The anger ebbed away, the hurt diminished a bit, so it did help. But if this hadn’t happened this would have been a completely different exhibition. In the exhibition I’m working on right now I want to focus on the authentic Aruban culture. I notice that Aruba is ‘Americanising’. I find that’s such a shame. I’m going to do something with that. I’ve had that plan before, this came kind of in between.’

What I notice in all of your paintings are religious symbols, praying hands, crosses…

‘They are the universal symbols of faith, hope and having trust. I felt that very clearly the last 3 years. That you’re looking for symbols and what they stand for. I did that through painting and combined those symbols. It wasn’t only the painting that gave me some peace. We have let go. Joran has to live his own life. He has to find his own path in what has happened. Of course you offer help as parents, but at a certain point you say: he’s almost 21, he has to go on. We need to go on. You kind of distance yourself. You take a step back. Sometimes it’s like I’m watching a movie. Ok, this has happened to us, but I don’t want a big part in it anymore. Because of that I find this interview very difficult as well. But I do want to do it, to close things, just like with this exhibition.

With that I also feel I’ve closed a heavy 3 years. I don’t know what might lie ahead for us in the future, but I do know I’ll be able to deal with it better. Without wanting to be arrogant, I do have the idea that I’m rising above certain situations and television programmes.’

Looking back, what would you have done differently?

‘I think we would have approached someone who could have helped us concerning the media. At a certain point we made the decision to do some interviews. Only a few, a deliberate choice. Looking back, I wouldn’t have worked with the American media. Talking in another language gives you limitations, you notice that the essence of words can change.’

Do you ever think about the fact that Joran might be arrested again for involvement in this case?

‘Yes, I do think about that. Of course Joran was arrested again this last winter, in the end it turned out to be for no reason at all. I haven’t seen the show itself, but I did see everything, every tape, and then it does come across quite differently. Not less bad, but it did become clear what De Vries & Van der Eem have done to provoke Joran into making statements. If you see every tape with hours of conversations and boasting of especially Van der Eem, it becomes quite clear what they tried to do. It’s not about the truth, it’s about ratings and a lot of money. Every recording is taking out of its context, there has been cutted & pasted. What do you mean: ‘shock damage’? (Anita is referring to the fact that the mother of Natalee Holloway wanted to sue Joran for ‘shock damage’, but no subpoena in this process has been received yet. RG). It has shocked me severely that these kind of things happen in the Netherlands and to a certain point is approved by justice. But what can I do? There are forces & powers going on that are stronger than we could ever be, we’ll have to learn to live with that. It’s about an American girl that disappeared on Aruba, an island that is mainly depended on American tourism, with a Dutch suspect. It’s about economical & political interests. The stepfather of the girl has threatened from the beginning that his fingers reach to the White House. The mother has said she will destroy our family life. This case must be solved of course, we all want that. I still hope that the group of people that is still working on the case will look further, to keep options open that other people might be involved in this, that they will look in America. Around 100 students are walking around there of which 15 of them knew that girl and were more involved, plus the so called ‘chaperones’ who escorted the kids during their trip, I know & hear very little about them. I keep finding that a bizarre story. I would really like that to be explored in depth.’

How do you see your relationship with Joran in the future?

‘Joran has to finish his school. If he doesn’t do that, he’ll have to deal with me and his father. He was suppose to go to college in America in 2005. He had a scholarship for an American university and was suppose to play soccer & tennis for that university, he was really looking forward to that. (silence) And of course, that has all been swept away because of all this. That still hurts, I recently talked to him about it. But he still has a chance to finish a study. And he’s smart enough to study as well. He's clever, it’s up to him to use that intelligence. Other than that, there isn’t much more you can do as a parent than giving good advice & counsel. That’s it, you can’t hold his hand any longer. You can’t lock him up. (voice is getting lower and lower) I wouldn’t want that either. He’s been locked long enough. He knows this is one of his last chances. And I do blame the people that keep lingering about the case. It’s almost impossible for him to move on, to build a future. I think they need to let go of such a kid at a certain time. I hope he’ll find his peace in about 5 or 10 years. That he can live a reasonable normal life. I never would have thought that my life would be like this 3 years ago, but there is more peace now and I hope we will be able to persevere that. And furthermore the people that are involved in this case should do their own thing. I don’t have any influence on that. None.’


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 20, 2010, 01:00:58 PM
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7001260/__Joran_houdt_mond_bij_rechter__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

Google translation>

Joran takes on right foot LIMA- Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco  because Altez gives up.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 01:02:51 PM
what she really means is it's sad that she lost her son, she considers everyone else " collateral damage".
No empathy. None.

Right.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 01:07:27 PM
From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.

This makes me as angry as anything this hag says.  She has not lost her son because of the actions of Stephany Flores.  The FLores family has lost their daughter because of what Joran did.  It's HIS fault!

That makes all the difference.  Anita is the most self-centered person I can think of to see things in the perspective that her loss is anything compared to theirs.  Their child was beaten to death, died a horrible death at the hands of her son Joran.

Joran is prancing around in Castro Castro wearing his orange shirt and trying to decide what new lies to tell.  Joran killed Natalee and refused to tell what he did with her.  She knows where Joran is.  He's ALIVE.

Oh, this is going to give me another headache. . . .



I agree Anna.

This reminds me of when you are telling a story to someone and that person stops you and says well if you think that's bad I have one better for you.

It's all about Anita.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 01:11:20 PM
Thanks Texasmom,

"That’s it, you can’t hold his hand any longer. You can’t lock him up. (voice is getting lower and lower) I wouldn’t want that either. He’s been locked long enough. He knows this is one of his last chances. And I do blame the people that keep lingering about the case."

You could have locked him up and saved yourself a lot of grief, not to mention the Flores' the agony of losing their only daughter at the hands of your own uncontrollable offspring. Keep blaming other people Anita, while you point the finger at other people to explain away 17 years of your parental failures. count how many fingers will be pointing back at you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 01:17:14 PM
When Anita decides to make her grand entrance to Peru to visit her son and show support that is when Beth Twitty should visit Peru and show her support to the Flores family.

Can you see Anita's face if this happens.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 01:20:51 PM
When Anita decides to make her grand entrance to Peru to visit her son and show support that is when Beth Twitty should visit Peru and show her support to the Flores family.

Can you see Anita's face if this happens.

With still shots of Joran, Paul and Natalee at the Holiday Inn, and Stephany and Joran entering his room at the TAC.
and the big pictures of both young ladies as we want to remember them. Vibrant and full of life and promise.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 20, 2010, 01:21:24 PM
I've been thinking about the extortion part of this case, and Joran's swift departure from Aruba 3 days after the $15,000 electronic transfer to a Netherlands bank account.
IMO someone gave Joran the heads up the FBI was going to have him arrested. I would think the FBI also would be keeping tabs on the account the money was deposited to. What I'm curious about is was Joran able to withdraw that $15,000 before he fled from Aruba. He might have also been told not to try to withdraw the funds as the FBI could then track him. Joran received $10,000 in cash from JQK on the 10th of May, but maybe that was all he had, and he no doubt went thru that within 2 weeks.
I just think it gives him more of a motive for robbery. It will be interested to see (computer forensics) if Anita was communicating with him soon after he left Aruba. Possibly guiding him on where he should go etc.
Possibly sending him funds if she knew he couldn't touch the account with the extortion funds.

Does anyone have a link to the article with statements from the taxi drivers?
I recall one of them talking about Joran being on Twitter all the time while driving to Chile. Also he said Joran kept telling them about Twitter rumors Joran was found dead (committed suicide). Did the taxi drivers say Joran started that rumor? The translations are so often incorrect, but wouldn't that be crazy if it was Joran that started that rumor.......I would like to get a better translation if anyone has a link to articles about taxi drivers statements, if anyone has one. TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 20, 2010, 01:23:50 PM
O/T another hot one today and I am off to make a blender full of gazpacho...not cooking a dern thing today!
Have a great Dad's day:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
I've been thinking about the extortion part of this case, and Joran's swift departure from Aruba 3 days after the $15,000 electronic transfer to a Netherlands bank account.
IMO someone gave Joran the heads up the FBI was going to have him arrested. I would think the FBI also would be keeping tabs on the account the money was deposited to. What I'm curious about is was Joran able to withdraw that $15,000 before he fled from Aruba. He might have also been told not to try to withdraw the funds as the FBI could then track him. Joran received $10,000 in cash from JQK on the 10th of May, but maybe that was all he had, and he no doubt went thru that within 2 weeks.
I just think it gives him more of a motive for robbery. It will be interested to see (computer forensics) if Anita was communicating with him soon after he left Aruba. Possibly guiding him on where he should go etc.
Possibly sending him funds if she knew he couldn't touch the account with the extortion funds.

Does anyone have a link to the article with statements from the taxi drivers?
I recall one of them talking about Joran being on Twitter all the time while driving to Chile. Also he said Joran kept telling them about Twitter rumors Joran was found dead (committed suicide). Did the taxi drivers say Joran started that rumor? The translations are so often incorrect, but wouldn't that be crazy if it was Joran that started that rumor.......I would like to get a better translation if anyone has a link to articles about taxi drivers statements, if anyone has one. TIA

Plus, he was in contact with his attorney from the Netherlands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 01:32:28 PM
LMAO!

I was looking for our discussion of the Red magazine article and found this...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.msg409451#msg409451

HT San

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Oops.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 01:44:48 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.220

This is where the discussion of the Red magazine article started here if anyone's interested.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 01:49:45 PM
Seeme,  I've wondered that as well.  Maybe the bank told Joran  there would be a five day clearing time or something like that and would not allow him to access the funds.

I also hope there are records of all communication from Mommie Dearest in hopes she aided and abetted a suspect in flight, a felony I am sure.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 01:52:00 PM
I hope Interpol will bother to track down the source of the rumor that Joran had been killed in an accident as that source is also likely guilty of aiding and abetting a known suspect in flight to avoid arrest.

It had to come from Joran or one of his "friends" as no one ele would have any motive to start such a rumor.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 01:52:34 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.220

This is where the discussion of the Red magazine article started here if anyone's interested.


I saw a post of mine in that link.  At least I'm consistent with what I post.

Quote
I DO NOT BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND THAT ANITA IS IN DENIAL.  JUST BECAUSE A PERSON IS COACHED INTO WHAT TO SAY DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE IN DENIAL.  SHE HAS BEEN PRACTICING HER STORY FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS NOW.  SHE IS AS ARROGANT AS HER WASTE OF LIFE RAPIST MURDERING HUSBAND AND SON.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 01:58:04 PM
From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."

If not for her homicidal maniac of a son, none of these people would have lost anything!

And her devil spawn is STILL ALIVE!  What part of that doesn't she get?

It is going to take the death of one of her children for her to know the difference in a dead child who was made to suffer horribly and being the mother of the cause of all the problems.

And she is in an excellent position to learn that very thing right now with her first born in the position that he is.  She is tempting fate with statements like that, further arrogance.  She is on very thin ice saying things like that and she can be made to know what it feels like to be on the "other side" that she always speaks about.

.


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 20, 2010, 02:03:23 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Hi San

looking at his bed in Castro Castro is that yellow box Prep H? kinda looks like it to me, maybe preparing him for what is about to happen to the sorry, disgusting POS..IF not, I can dream...I hate him, hate hate hate him.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 02:04:06 PM
Self-edit--should have been:


From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.


If not for her homicidal maniac of a son, none of these people would have lost anything!

And her devil spawn is STILL ALIVE!  What part of that doesn't she get?

It is going to take the death of one of her children for her to know the difference in a dead child who was made to suffer horribly and being the mother of the cause of all the problems.

And she is in an excellent position to learn that very thing right now with her first born in the position that he is.  She is tempting fate with statements like that, further arrogance.  She is on very thin ice saying things like that and she can be made to know what it feels like to be on the "other side" that she always speaks about.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 20, 2010, 02:07:19 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Hi San

looking at his bed in Castro Castro is that yellow box Prep H? kinda looks like it to me, maybe preparing him for what is about to happen to the sorry, disgusting POS..IF not, I can dream...I hate him, hate hate hate him.

OS

Maybe that is standard issue with the toiletries box the Dutch embassy gives new inmates.  They know what is coming! LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 02:09:29 PM
San, I think you are correct.  She is not in denial.  She is just lying and saying what she hopes will garner sympathy for her homicidal maniac.

It's intentional and designed to try to get him some kind of break.  Any kind but preferably a cushy mental bed instead of Castro Castro.

All murderers have mental problems or they wouldn't be murderers.  So, no it doesn't count for anything at all, Anita.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 02:09:54 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.220

This is where the discussion of the Red magazine article started here if anyone's interested.


I saw a post of mine in that link.  At least I'm consistent with what I post.

Quote
I DO NOT BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND THAT ANITA IS IN DENIAL.  JUST BECAUSE A PERSON IS COACHED INTO WHAT TO SAY DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE IN DENIAL.  SHE HAS BEEN PRACTICING HER STORY FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS NOW.  SHE IS AS ARROGANT AS HER WASTE OF LIFE RAPIST MURDERING HUSBAND AND SON.

Great post then and now, I started to bring it over too!  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 02:12:16 PM
Self-edit--should have been:


From the article:

"I think it is intensely sad that that businessman Flores has lost his daughter, and I my son. That's how it feels."


Why doesn't she just say that the Flores family lost their child.  She makes sure she points out businessman Flores.  She also points out that she has lost her son.  Her son is the reason for all of this mess and she is to blame.


If not for her homicidal maniac of a son, none of these people would have lost anything!

And her devil spawn is STILL ALIVE!  What part of that doesn't she get?

It is going to take the death of one of her children for her to know the difference in a dead child who was made to suffer horribly and being the mother of the cause of all the problems.

And she is in an excellent position to learn that very thing right now with her first born in the position that he is.  She is tempting fate with statements like that, further arrogance.  She is on very thin ice saying things like that and she can be made to know what it feels like to be on the "other side" that she always speaks about.


I agree Anna!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 02:15:16 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Hi San

looking at his bed in Castro Castro is that yellow box Prep H? kinda looks like it to me, maybe preparing him for what is about to happen to the sorry, disgusting POS..IF not, I can dream...I hate him, hate hate hate him.

OS

Hi OS, I have a dream also.  Mine doesn't include him seeing the next day.


Someone posted this comment:

I wonder how often mom will visit her boy in that Hellhole?
I suppose she could mail care packages.
Certainly the other prisoners will appreciate that:)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 02:18:33 PM
San, I think you are correct.  She is not in denial.  She is just lying and saying what she hopes will garner sympathy for her homicidal maniac.

It's intentional and designed to try to get him some kind of break.  Any kind but preferably a cushy mental bed instead of Castro Castro.

All murderers have mental problems or they wouldn't be murderers.  So, no it doesn't count for anything at all, Anita.

.

I agree Anna.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 02:19:42 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/zoom1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/zoom2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/zoom3-1.jpg)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 02:21:06 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Hi San

looking at his bed in Castro Castro is that yellow box Prep H? kinda looks like it to me, maybe preparing him for what is about to happen to the sorry, disgusting POS..IF not, I can dream...I hate him, hate hate hate him.

OS

Maybe that is standard issue with the toiletries box the Dutch embassy gives new inmates.  They know what is coming! LOL

Know what got me the other day is when the pastor from the Netherlands went to visit Joran.  They said he usually comes twice a year.  How convenient of him to go when Joran is there. At this point I don't trust anyone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 02:30:00 PM
Did I read reports that the Dutch media would be in Peru on Monday to interview Joran? 

How is that going to happen if the Judge will be conducting the interrogation on Monday.  I don't think the Dutch media will be allowed in.  Has anyone seen any more reports or updates on that?

Hi cece!
I posted yesterday that SBS is allowed to go inside the prison tomorrow (like ABC and CNN were earlier this week) and the reporter said that they are going to TRY and talk to Joran. So it´s not at all certain but they´re going to try.

This is the video (in Dutch) where they´re talking about it (from 1´15 on).

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/2010/jacht-naar-joran-nog-in-volle-gang/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 20, 2010, 02:35:26 PM


Maybe that is standard issue with the toiletries box the Dutch embassy gives new inmates.  They know what is coming! LOL
[/quote]

Hey Sunny

LOL. I pray no one in Peru protects that monster from anything EVER. I just hope it's slow and painful..no quickies.. I have thought over the years what I would like to do to him, I might have even posted my thoughts but no amount of torture will ever be enough from where I sit.

Ya know, I step away, come back and feel the same anger, rage about Aruba, Paulus (hope that SOB rots in the hottest that hell can be for eternity), Anita, JR, the Kalpoes, etal. I do know they surely have brought out the worse in me. I never knew I could have such thoughts about another human, but I do.

I am thankful for SM and all those that have kept Natalee's story front and center. I admire you, justice is coming.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 20, 2010, 02:35:48 PM
Joran takes on right foot (=keeps his mouth shut)

LIMA - Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco because Altez gives up.

http://tinyurl.com/37lrruy


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 02:38:35 PM
Joran takes on right foot (=keeps his mouth shut)

LIMA - Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco because Altez gives up.

http://tinyurl.com/37lrruy

O/T
Haha mooi hè, die online vertalingen!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cece on June 20, 2010, 02:40:27 PM
Did I read reports that the Dutch media would be in Peru on Monday to interview Joran? 

How is that going to happen if the Judge will be conducting the interrogation on Monday.  I don't think the Dutch media will be allowed in.  Has anyone seen any more reports or updates on that?

Hi cece!
I posted yesterday that SBS is allowed to go inside the prison tomorrow (like ABC and CNN were earlier this week) and the reporter said that they are going to TRY and talk to Joran. So it´s not at all certain but they´re going to try.

This is the video (in Dutch) where they´re talking about it (from 1´15 on).

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/2010/jacht-naar-joran-nog-in-volle-gang/



Thank you Jo-An, much appreciated.  And thank you for your translations & input :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 02:40:58 PM
Just because his lawyer tells Joran to keep his mouth shut doesn't mean Joran will obey.  Joran may well think he can convince the judge and charm him with his version of reality.

Should be interesting.

Not sure how the Dutch media is going to interview Joran while he is before the judge.  That should also be interesting.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 20, 2010, 02:41:32 PM
Joran takes on right foot (=keeps his mouth shut)

LIMA - Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco because Altez gives up.

http://tinyurl.com/37lrruy

O/T
Haha mooi hè, die online vertalingen!

Yes, lol! Google translates 'rechter' (=judge) as 'right'.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 20, 2010, 02:46:21 PM
Joran takes on right foot (=keeps his mouth shut)

LIMA - Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco because Altez gives up.

http://tinyurl.com/37lrruy

O/T
Haha mooi hè, die online vertalingen!

Yes, lol! Google translates 'rechter' (=judge) as 'right'.

The header says: Joran houdt mond bij rechter. Literally that is: 'Joran keeps mouth shut at judge.'


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Agraria on June 20, 2010, 02:46:29 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 02:46:47 PM
Did I read reports that the Dutch media would be in Peru on Monday to interview Joran? 

How is that going to happen if the Judge will be conducting the interrogation on Monday.  I don't think the Dutch media will be allowed in.  Has anyone seen any more reports or updates on that?

Hi cece!
I posted yesterday that SBS is allowed to go inside the prison tomorrow (like ABC and CNN were earlier this week) and the reporter said that they are going to TRY and talk to Joran. So it´s not at all certain but they´re going to try.

This is the video (in Dutch) where they´re talking about it (from 1´15 on).

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/2010/jacht-naar-joran-nog-in-volle-gang/



Thank you Jo-An, much appreciated.  And thank you for your translations & input :)

You´re welcome!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 02:48:37 PM
Joran takes on right foot (=keeps his mouth shut)

LIMA - Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco because Altez gives up.

http://tinyurl.com/37lrruy


According to dugo, at RU, there is no right to remain silent, in the Peru consitution. (He also said lying carries an obstruction charge):

     
      

charlierat wrote:

I repeat Paprikash's question. Where did you see this? I mean the part about Joran cannot remain silent. I did not know that Peru did not recognize the right against self-incrimination.

dugo PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 pm

It is not about where do you see it, it is about: you do not see it in their constitution.

http://www.parliament.go.th/parcy/sapa_db/cons_doc/constitutions/data/Peru/peru.pdf


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 02:49:18 PM
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/curacao/5/2010/WEEKLY_News_061910.pdf

News Items and Public Crime Summary for Week Ending
June 19, 2010


Aruba – U.S. Media Returns to Cover Van Der Sloot Case

Aruba‟s chief prosecutor Blanken told the media last week that he is not aware of Joran van der Sloot‟s alleged statement in Peru in which he said he was willing to tell Aruban authorities where the body of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway is.

NBC News - citing police sources - reported that Van der Sloot is now willing to tell authorities in Aruba where to find Holloway‟s remains. The network did not provide further details. “It could be interesting if it is true,” Blanken said, while adding a note of caution about Van der Sloot‟s history of false statements. He said his office was trying to get into contact with Peruvian police to get more information, but said they had been unsuccessful as of Friday morning. CNN and NBC correspondents have reportedly arrived on Aruba. The U.S. media seem to be interested in an interview with Joran‟s mother, Anita van der Sloot. (Various media)

snip

Aruba – Minister Winklaar: Visit to the U.S. Successful

Aruban Minister of Economical Affairs, Social Affairs, and Culture Michelle Hooyboer-Winklaar met in Washington, DC with Walter P. Bastian, Deputy Assistant Secretary for
the Western Hemisphere U.S. Department of Commerce International Trade Administration. Mr. Bastian is responsible for developing programs, policies and strategies designed to strengthen the United States' commercial position in the Western Hemisphere. They discussed Aruban commercial and investment opportunities. Also, Minister Winklaar met at U.S. State Department with EEB/FO Bureau PDAS Anna Borg to discuss WTO issues and to improve the great bilateral relationship between the U.S. and Aruba. (La Prensa)

Curacao/Aruba – Venezuelan Coast Guard Participates in Exercise

The Venezuelan Coast Guard is here to participate in the joint Coast Guard exercise “Open Eyes”. The objective of the exercise is to improve the mutual relations. (Various media)

Aruba – Minister Oduber Denies Permission For 200 Venezuelan
Workers


Aruban Labor Minister Otmar Oduber categorically denies that the Aruban government gave permission to 200 Venezuelans to work for the US-owned Valero-refinery. Valero does plan to hire employees and contractors for the refinery restart, but the Aruban government policy is to hire local employees, the Minister said. (La Prensa)

Aruba – Peruvian and Aruban Authorities Agree to Cooperate

Aruban and Peruvian authorities have agreed to "help each other" in the murder investigation of Stephany Flores -- in which Joran Van der Sloot is the prime suspect, an Aruban government spokesman said Tuesday.

Investigators hope the cooperation will lead to new information about the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway in 2005 in Aruba. Van der Sloot is also a suspect in that case.

Following a phone meeting with Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales on Tuesday morning, Aruban government spokesman Taco Stein said Peruvian authorities have agreed to allow Aruban investigators into Peru to interview van der Sloot once a formal request has been made.

Stein did not indicate when the request would take place or when Aruban investigators are expected to arrive in Peru, but described the meeting as a "positive start" to information sharing that many Arubans hope will shed more light on the Holloway case. (Various media)

Aruba – Natalee Holloway’s Father Back in Aruba

Natalee Holloway's father was back in Aruba on Monday, hoping the suspect in his daughter's disappearance has provided local authorities with new clues since being arrested for the death of a 21-year-old woman in Peru.

Dave Holloway planned to discuss the latest developments with prosecutors and investigators at a meeting Tuesday, said Tim Miller, a friend and the founder of Texas EquuSearch, a group that has repeatedly searched for the missing Alabama woman since her disappearance in 2005. He had previously said they would discuss the case Monday but the meeting was postponed for unknown reasons.

Miller, who is staying with Holloway in Aruba but not attending the meetings, said volunteers were ready to immediately resume the search if there is any new information from Joran van der Sloot, who was jailed Friday on charges of killing business student Stephany Flores on May 30 in a Lima hotel.

Miller said the death of Flores, on the fifth anniversary of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba, opened up old wounds for the distraught father, who has been frustrated with the lack of progress by Aruban authorities.

"He's very saddened," Miller told The Associated Press. "He feels that if the Arubans had done their job, Joran would be in jail and Stephany would be alive."

Holloway and Miller have made many previous trips to Aruba in search of clues about the teen from Mountain Brook, Alabama, who was last seen leaving a bar with Van der Sloot on the final night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. (Various media)

Aruba - Excerpts From Van Der Sloot Confession

Dutch media released excerpts from the signed June 6 confession of Joran van der Sloot, who was subsequently charged with first-degree murder and robbery in the killing of Stephany Flores, a Peruvian business student whom he met while playing poker in a Lima casino. In the confession, a transcript of which was obtained by The Associated Press, Van der Sloot is questioned by a prosecutor in the presence of a state-appointed defense attorney.

Van der Sloot spoke in Dutch, with a translator approved by the Dutch Embassy translating his comments into Spanish. The Spanish has been translated into English by the AP.

Asked if he has anything to add to the confession:

"I wish to talk about the Natelle Holoway (sic) case from five years ago and the possibility that if this trial goes quickly and fluidly it could be possible for me to be extradited to Aruba. I wish to discuss the case but not at the moment. It's a case that is years old and I would prefer to speak with the Aruban police and if there is the possibility of closing the case I would be ready to clarify the case ..." (Various media)

Aruba – Prosecutor Wants To Talk To Van Der Sloot About Holloway

Prosecutors in Aruba said Wednesday they want to take Joran van der Sloot up on his offer to discuss the unsolved disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway.

Judicial authorities in Peru are willing to arrange a conversation between Aruban police and Van der Sloot, Attorney General Robert Pietersz said. Van Der Sloot is awaiting trial in Peru in the slaying of a 21-year-old woman in Lima.

Van der Sloot told his jailers he is ready to clarify the Holloway case, but only to Aruba authorities. He is the only remaining suspect in the 2005 disappearance.

An Aruba policeman and a prosecutor could travel to Peru as early as August, said Peter Blanken, the island's chief prosecutor.

Van der Sloot has said he fears for his life in the Peruvian prison. But regardless of what information the suspect might provide in the Holloway case, it is unlikely he would be brought to Aruba before completing any sentence if convicted in the South American country, Blanken said.

"I think it's out of question because the case in Peru is a very severe case and the Peruvian authorities have said they do not want to do that," Blanken said.

Dave Holloway, the missing teen's father, met with Aruba police Tuesday, Blanken said. He said authorities did not have any new information in the case to discuss. (Various media)

Curacao\Aruba - U.S. FOL Welcomes New Commander

Lt Col Michael J. Price, Commander of the U S Forward Operating Locations in Curacao and Aruba, relinquished his leadership to Lt Col Brian Bell yesterday.

Governor Frits Goedgedrag, Antilles PM Emily de Jongh-Elhage, Aruban PM Mike Eman, and other government officials were present at the ceremony.

During 2009, surveillance flights from the U.S. FOL assisted in the seizure of narcotics with a street value of over 20 million USD. Lt Col Price said cooperation with Antilles, Aruban, and Dutch law enforcement agencies was outstanding. Also, U.S. FOL military and civilian personnel often volunteer their services in support of community projects and are pleased to have established partnership with various local agencies which benefits the people of Curaçao. (Various media)

Aruba - Peruvian Judge to Ask Van Der Sloot About Death

A Peruvian judge expects to interrogate Joran van der Sloot next week about the death of 21-year-old Peruvian woman Stephany Flores in his hotel room on May 30th.

Thursday's statement said Morales will pass along any information to pertinent authorities if Van der Sloot discusses the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway, a case in which he also is the prime suspect. Van der Sloot has said he is ready to talk about the case, but only to Aruban authorities. (Various media)

snip

ARUBA
Crime June 11 – June 17


On June 15 a home owner in Oranjestad was beaten and robbed by two men (Awe Mainta).

snip

“The Weekly Press Summary is a compilation of stories running in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruban press that is intended to alert readers about items of interest to them. There is no interpretation or verification of the facts contained therein."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 02:53:17 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.

Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Puzzler on June 20, 2010, 02:56:18 PM
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/10170-das-rules-out-dutchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

comments are interesting

Extremely so ...

Oopsie...beginning to have the sounds of a "cover-up"




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 02:59:00 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.

Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




Does he need to be classed as a fulltime student to be covered by her insurance?  or is this his HMO  Aruban insurance  or is he still "addressed" in the Netherlands?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Agraria on June 20, 2010, 02:59:39 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 03:03:33 PM
Joran takes on right foot (=keeps his mouth shut)

LIMA - Joran van der Sloot Monday keeps his mouth at the first questioning by the court. Van der Sloot wants the court until his confession to the police invalid. That lawyer would have made the point to Máximo Altez Peruvian media.

Peruvian Judge Carlos Morales begins Monday with the interrogation of van der Sloot in his cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Lima. According to Peruvian justice is the Final heard about the "facts and responsibilities" at the death of Stephany Flores.

There were lawyers on their way to Peru, including the American Joseph Pina Taco because Altez gives up.

http://tinyurl.com/37lrruy


According to dugo, at RU, there is no right to remain silent, in the Peru consitution. (He also said lying carries an obstruction charge):

charlierat wrote:

I repeat Paprikash's question. Where did you see this? I mean the part about Joran cannot remain silent. I did not know that Peru did not recognize the right against self-incrimination.

dugo PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 pm

It is not about where do you see it, it is about: you do not see it in their constitution.

http://www.parliament.go.th/parcy/sapa_db/cons_doc/constitutions/data/Peru/peru.pdf

Thanks Buckeye, I knew I remembered reading that somewhere.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 03:03:39 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.





? Probably an agreement with the judge after the Peter/Patrick tape.  Just like the agreement, the first time to go to school.  Too bad Joran decided to go to Thailand, instead.  I am sure he would have been just as safe, from those Dutch crowds (led by the US media and the Holloway family) in a psych unit as a different country.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 03:04:57 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.

Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




Does he need to be classed as a fulltime student to be covered by her insurance?  or is this his HMO  Aruban insurance  or is he still "addressed" in the Netherlands?

I noticed on the confession documents that it does appear that he is still "addressed" in the Netherlands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 03:05:33 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.

Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




Does he need to be classed as a fulltime student to be covered by her insurance?  or is this his HMO  Aruban insurance  or is he still "addressed" in the Netherlands?

Her insurance won´t cover his costs because he´s over 18. He must have a health insurance policy of his own.
Anita mentioned the insurance company, Menzis, that´s a Dutch company. He still has a Dutch passport so he can use Dutch health insurance.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 03:07:36 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.

Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




Does he need to be classed as a fulltime student to be covered by her insurance?  or is this his HMO  Aruban insurance  or is he still "addressed" in the Netherlands?

Her insurance won´t cover his costs because he´s over 18. He must have a health insurance policy of his own.
Anita mentioned the insurance company, Menzis, that´s a Dutch company. He still has a Dutch passport so he can use Dutch health insurance.


Thank you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 03:08:00 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.



Where did she say that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Puzzler on June 20, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I would like to know what mental facility Joran was scheduled to go to in Netherlands before he "fled" to Peru.  I am sure they wouldn't release that info, but it would be interesting to know if it is true that they were really trying to get some help for him.  I also wonder if the facebook entires from Renho and Anita to Joran were talking about his committment to the mental facility, rather than his fleeing to Peru. 

I do believe that he is mentally ill.  His actions, his lies, all lead me to that conclusion. His family have just been enablers, rather than seeking the help he needed when he was younger.   I also believe he is totally accountable for both the death of Natalee and Stephany and he should pay accordingly.  I do hope that one way or another he will die in a Peruvian prison. 

I believe he goes into and unbelievable rage (and "maybe" forget a few details during that extreme rage state).  However, he does remember a lot of the details and he does know right from wrong, which (under U.S. law) does not make him "insane" under the rule of law.

All those deep bruises on Stephany's legs had to have come from kicking her, a fury of kicking because we read that deep bruises were all over her legs.  He said he threw her to the floor.  He didn't say (or it wasn't released) that he kicked her while she was down.  That's what he did.  In his extreme fury, he might have forgotten that detail.  But he does admit to the important one - he suffocated her until she stopped breathing.

On NG show, the first time Stephany's brother was on the show, he told us about the eye and right after that he said in a low voice, while shaking his head: "that neck".  At that moment, I thought that the neck was in really bad shape (yes, it was broken) BUT it made me think that Joran had stomped on her neck (like he did on her legs).

I think Anita has spent many days, with many people, trying to decide how to handle this matter.  I believe she doesn't have the money to spend (or throw away) on Joran, so she's probably trying to go through the NLs to obtain any help that way.  Also, someone smart has told her she'd better own up to what Joran has done this time.  My gosh, she even admits that her two other boys have told her that Joran is dragging her down.  If true, that makes those young boys smarter than Anita.  Also, I think she is probably genuinely grieving for the loss of her husband and hasn't even had enough time to process that loss.  It's like Joran is sucking the life out of everything!

Anita saying that Joran threw himself over Paulus' casket and cried.  If so, there again Joran's guilt is showing that he knows right from wrong.  I do tend to think that the death of Paulus affected Joran greatly...because...it means that Joran's safety-net is forever gone!

Sadly, I also think that what Joran did to Stephany reflects on what he most likely did with Natalee...or at least very similar actions.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Agraria on June 20, 2010, 03:13:03 PM


I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.



Where did she say that?


looking now...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 03:30:52 PM
I've been thinking about the extortion part of this case, and Joran's swift departure from Aruba 3 days after the $15,000 electronic transfer to a Netherlands bank account.
IMO someone gave Joran the heads up the FBI was going to have him arrested. I would think the FBI also would be keeping tabs on the account the money was deposited to. What I'm curious about is was Joran able to withdraw that $15,000 before he fled from Aruba. He might have also been told not to try to withdraw the funds as the FBI could then track him. Joran received $10,000 in cash from JQK on the 10th of May, but maybe that was all he had, and he no doubt went thru that within 2 weeks.
I just think it gives him more of a motive for robbery. It will be interested to see (computer forensics) if Anita was communicating with him soon after he left Aruba. Possibly guiding him on where he should go etc.
Possibly sending him funds if she knew he couldn't touch the account with the extortion funds.

Does anyone have a link to the article with statements from the taxi drivers?
I recall one of them talking about Joran being on Twitter all the time while driving to Chile. Also he said Joran kept telling them about Twitter rumors Joran was found dead (committed suicide). Did the taxi drivers say Joran started that rumor? The translations are so often incorrect, but wouldn't that be crazy if it was Joran that started that rumor.......I would like to get a better translation if anyone has a link to articles about taxi drivers statements, if anyone has one. TIA

Wouldn't it be interesting if Anita was also able to use that Netherlands' [ extortion money ] account...?????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 03:32:03 PM
Uncle Jan had offered Joran 2 years originally if he, Joran, "told the truth" whatever Uncle Jan wanted to hear.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 03:33:53 PM
LMAO!

I was looking for our discussion of the Red magazine article and found this...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.msg409451#msg409451

HT San

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Oops.jpg)

Anita is no lady ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Agraria on June 20, 2010, 03:37:37 PM




I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.



Where did she say that?


looking now...


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.msg1164835#msg1164835

(excerpt from an interview )
"Anita then decided he should be admitted. "I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him." 

Must be my big mistake I could not find anything but this.

I probably was thinking of the 2 year incarceration contract with Terror Jaap.

So sorry...

Tricia




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 03:38:17 PM
Ono, I am so hoping that Anita is some how implicated in all this extortion charge.  Or that she sent money to Joran that aided his flight to avoid arrest.  I don't think Interpol is going to share the sentiment that evidently Dutch law does that it is OK for members of immediate family to lie to LE.

Wouldn't it just be marvelous if there are records of Joran receiving money from her somewhere along his path fleeing LE and after it was known he was eluding arrest!

Now that would absolutely make my day and if the Peruvians are going after even the taxi drivers, I think they would anybody who bankrolled Joran's attempt to elude.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 20, 2010, 03:40:06 PM
Was reading the article in the NY Post about Anita's interview and this comment stood out:

"In the De Telegraaf interview, she [his mother] said Joran suffers from mental problems."

If he goes to prison in Peru, he's gonna suffer from rectal problems.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/joran_mother_says_sloot_may_have_a1En2RWPAfFof1VlYiiYjL#ixzz0rPZjK5F3

Hahahahah not while I'm drinking  Ice coffee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 03:45:45 PM




I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.



Where did she say that?


looking now...


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.msg1164835#msg1164835

(excerpt from an interview )
"Anita then decided he should be admitted. "I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him." 

Must be my big mistake I could not find anything but this.

I probably was thinking of the 2 year incarceration contract with Terror Jaap.

So sorry...

Tricia




Or maybe this quote by Anna?

Uncle Jan had offered Joran 2 years originally if he, Joran, "told the truth" whatever Uncle Jan wanted to hear.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 03:54:08 PM
Ono, I am so hoping that Anita is some how implicated in all this extortion charge.  Or that she sent money to Joran that aided his flight to avoid arrest.  I don't think Interpol is going to share the sentiment that evidently Dutch law does that it is OK for members of immediate family to lie to LE.

Wouldn't it just be marvelous if there are records of Joran receiving money from her somewhere along his path fleeing LE and after it was known he was eluding arrest!

Now that would absolutely make my day and if the Peruvians are going after even the taxi drivers, I think they would anybody who bankrolled Joran's attempt to elude.

.


Make my day too!!;  The Peruvians seem to be wonderfully thorough-"ain't it grand"!?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 03:56:55 PM
According to dugo, at RU, there is no right to remain silent, in the Peru consitution. (He also said lying carries an obstruction charge):

     
      

charlierat wrote:

I repeat Paprikash's question. Where did you see this? I mean the part about Joran cannot remain silent. I did not know that Peru did not recognize the right against self-incrimination.

dugo PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 pm

It is not about where do you see it, it is about: you do not see it in their constitution.

http://www.parliament.go.th/parcy/sapa_db/cons_doc/constitutions/data/Peru/peru.pdf


Yuk, yuk, yuk!  I don't suppose they can force Joran to speak but I do remember reading that it was mandatory that he appear before the judge and if he refuses to speak, it can be held against him.  In other words, the judge can then assume the worst for why Joran doesn't answer him.

But I also wonder about his PERUVIAN attorney telling Joran not to answer.  He should know the laws in Peru and what is allowed and what is not. 

I am pretty sure lying to the judge would be considered obstruction in most countries.  Aruba being one of the few exceptions.  In this country you can plead the Fifth Amendment--right not to incriminate yourself.  But of coures that implies that you are guilty or you wouldn't fear self-incrimination.

Joran may well speak against the advice of his attorney thinking he can convince the judge it was an act of passion.  I would like to see the expression on the face of the judge as Joran explains how he finds it perfectly reasonable to kill somebody for being on his laptop.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Agraria on June 20, 2010, 03:59:33 PM




I have been wondering how Anita knew Joran would only serve 2 years in this mental institution in the Netherlands...Did she have a prior agreement that had been concocted.? Or is that standard treatment in the NL for mental issues?? Anyone know...?

Tricia

The insurance company will pay for a stay of max. 365 days.


Google translation:

You are entitled to reimbursement of costs of:

admission and residence during the day in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward of a hospital for up to 365 days. A break of thirty days is considered as an interruption, but does not count towards the calculation of 365 days. Interruptions due to weekend and leave them to be counted in calculating the 365 days.




I think she said it had already been approved for 2 years. I guess they made special provisions. Something about all this still bothers me tho...not sure.



Where did she say that?


looking now...


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.msg1164835#msg1164835

(excerpt from an interview )
"Anita then decided he should be admitted. "I made an appointment with a Dutch clinic. The insurance had been taken care of. Two days before he was supposed to go to the Netherlands, I found that note when I came home. He had left for Peru for a poker tournament. Someone had invited him." 

Must be my big mistake I could not find anything but this.

I probably was thinking of the 2 year incarceration contract with Terror Jaap.

So sorry...

Tricia




Or maybe this quote by Anna?

Uncle Jan had offered Joran 2 years originally if he, Joran, "told the truth" whatever Uncle Jan wanted to hear.

.

True... I remember that.  But I also read Terror Jaap's weblog after he was recently raided by the Netherlands (as per the US Justice System.) He talks about his contract with Joran to serve 2 years in the Netherlands and come out a millionaire at 23. They were, of course, planning to sell all the pics from his turning himself in, etc..licensing it all.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 04:03:03 PM
I wonder if Jaap understands that in this country it is illegal for a criminal to profit from his crime and one can't sell anything of that nature.

So I wonder to whom they thought they would sell things for such profits.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 04:09:55 PM
~Texasmom;  Thanks for posting that article [ on page 55 ] from an interview with Anita in "Red"/September 2008 issue-I had never seen that.   What a self-centered & shallow woman! Ugh!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 04:13:00 PM
I wonder if Anita is so set on Joran being innocent in Natalee's case because they still have the big Aruban compensation case pending.

Don't the Aruban attorneys also get their pay from compensation from the courts?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 04:17:22 PM
Jaap said that everything he did, was to `trick` Joran into telling the truth about Natalee.
But... everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. Actually lots of grains of salt!

Part of his weblog:

I've just given my statement and told police some of the offenses that Joran has committed over the past two years. They were extremely shocked. I also told them the whole story about the state of affairs with Aruba and Joran's crime syndicate. Also about that they were heavily into conclave.

They now wanted to know about Peru.

The deal was that the USB stick I had hidden (intruders) with all the dates of the last two years I would return if my backup (fire) should hold in the context of free journalism. So I have everything! Whoopee!

Realize that I always have said to you that I RTL (and earlier also by John de Mol and Talpa) is always the bogeyman was good cop bad cop in order to play. I have everything stored systematically. Also all emails and msn logs. I played my game as in DGK. I have told the police. I was an actor in DGK that I have learned to manipulate and 15 months that I've been in practice for Joran with beautiful stories of millions to confess.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 04:22:17 PM
~Texasmom;  Thanks for posting that article [ on page 55 ] from an interview with Anita in "Red"/September 2008 issue-I had never seen that.   What a self-centered & shallow woman! Ugh!!

YW Ono.  And think about this...if I have the timing right...that was about the time Joran was in Thailand making his money selling women.  Some may recall that Julia Renfro said that it was all part of a "school project" Joran was working on.  Typical...(rolling eyes)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,449294,00.html

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/11/thailand_wants_transcript_of_v.php

It's really sickening that Joran was never held accountable for those activities either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: NewfieMonkey on June 20, 2010, 04:27:19 PM
Monster had no plans (nor plans made for him to check into psych) ... just came in as a handy story for Anita.  ~ My son was driven to this ... blah blah ... it was Beth that drove him to it ... blah blah ... I'd realized recently (TA DA - LIKE MAGIC!) that he had mental issues ... blah blah ... right up until then ... blah blah ... I found him a loving son ... a fine sporter .. blah blah.

What I do find fab is - Anita isn't only trying to get the Monster an easier time in prison ...

she's waffling her bets :)

In case that doesn't work out - she's trying to make out that HIS MENTAL FUCKUPEDNESS is a new issue ... laughable if Natalee weren't dead and her body not in possession of her parents and family.  His mental issues have been apparent to EVERYONE for a long time MOMMY DEAREST!  If you didn't see them - you are the IGNORANT COW I've thought you to be.

Burn in HELL Joran ... and take mommy with you!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 04:31:31 PM


True... I remember that.  But I also read Terror Jaap's weblog after he was recently raided by the Netherlands (as per the US Justice System.) He talks about his contract with Joran to serve 2 years in the Netherlands and come out a millionaire at 23. They were, of course, planning to sell all the pics from his turning himself in, etc..licensing it all.


Hi Agraria, I just read Jaap´s weblog but I can´t see anything about serving 2 years in the NL and coming out a millionaire.
Could you please point out what segment you´re talking about, maybe something got lost in translation.

What I read is that Jaap has been working a long time (21 months) and promising Joran a lot of money to come clean about Natalee.

And on the other hand he talks about getting psych. help for Joran, together with one of Joran´s friend. But in that segment they´re not talking about money. Just about getting Joran back on track again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: NewfieMonkey on June 20, 2010, 04:34:10 PM
And I should note:  I use the term "handy" loosely ... I mean ... how many days did it take her to come up with that?  (the story ... the backup ... the renho - I mean publicity whore!) ... Had his being ready to go into psych story been the truth ... old Monster Mommy would have been talking to the Dutch media earlier ... as it is ... she's a liar ... Monster told us that ... want us to trust you now Anita?  not happening!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 04:34:31 PM
Oh no, messed up the quote... :-/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 04:36:48 PM
~Texasmom;  Thanks for posting that article [ on page 55 ] from an interview with Anita in "Red"/September 2008 issue-I had never seen that.   What a self-centered & shallow woman! Ugh!!

YW Ono.  And think about this...if I have the timing right...that was about the time Joran was in Thailand making his money selling women.  Some may recall that Julia Renfro said that it was all part of a "school project" Joran was working on.  Typical...(rolling eyes)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,449294,00.html

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/11/thailand_wants_transcript_of_v.php

It's really sickening that Joran was never held accountable for those activities either.


Yes it is, but maybe he will be at some point in time. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Hat on June 20, 2010, 04:51:05 PM
I don't think Joran is the only one in the family that is "ziek in zijn hoofd".

Pretty sure Anita is unbalanced too if she thinks she can pass off Joran's rage killings as some sort of a treatable mental condition and mitigating circumstances for a reduced sentence.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 20, 2010, 04:55:24 PM
Prison Expert and Ex-Con Larry Levine Tells 'The Early Show:' 'His Existence is Just About Over.'
Published June 20, 2010

Prison expert and ex-con Larry Levine, founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants, appeared on CBS' "Early Show" Saturday and bluntly stated, then reiterated in various ways, that Joran Van Der Sloot was "a dead man." Van Der Sloot, who is being held in one of South America's most notorious prisons, Miguel Castro Castro Prison in Lima, confessed to the murder of 21-year-old business student Stephany Flores Ramirez. Although currently under suicide watch and in solitary confinement, Larry Levine does not believe that Van Der Sloot has a chance of surviving his stay at the dangerous and perilously overcrowded prison.

When asked what he would tell the 22-year-old Van Der Sloot, Levine told the "Early Show," "I'd tell him, 'You're not gonna make it, that 'What you need to do is pray, because someone's gonna kill ya, and just enjoy the rest of the time you have left on Earth.'"

Concerns of Joran Van Der Sloot being killed in the Peruvian prison have also been voiced by those associated with Natalee Holloway, the Alabama teenager who disappeared while in Aruba in 2005. Van Der Sloot is the last person known to have seen Holloway alive, and is believed to have somehow been involved in the 18-year-old high school student's disappearance and possible death. Although arrested on suspicions twice over the years, Joran Van Der Sloot was released both times due to lack of evidence. Van Der Sloot's potential death while in the Peruvian prison might forever close the book on the Natalee Holloway case, leaving her family and friends not knowing if she is alive or dead, and, if dead, whether or not Van Der Sloot was actually involved and if he knows where her body is located.

Levine suggested that Stephany Flores Ramirez's father, a prominent Peruvian politician and former race car driver, might even pay someone to kill Van Der Sloot: "You know," he said, "that's a dangerous place. ... You've got murderers there, terrorists there - you've got bad people. And the problem he's facing is that the father of Stephany (Flores) ... is a prominent person. And this is an impoverished prison. And you pay off the right people, ya know, someone will stick a knife right in the guy.

"They'll be lining up to kill him. He has no hope. He has no chance."

If one was to consider if being in solitary confinement and under constant suicide watch might be enough to safeguard Van Der Sloot, Levine was quick to spurn the idea: "He's in solitary," the consultant said. "He's living in a cellblock that has ten cells to it. He's living by himself. ... His existence is just about over. ... It doesn't really matter if they isolate him because, even in a U.S. prison, people can get to people."

He believes even Joran Van Der Sloot realizes the direness of his situation: "I read a report somewhere that he's got a Bible in his cell. He's probably reading the Bible."

Levine admitted that Miguel Castro Castro Prison was corrupt, and, with Joran Van Der Sloot's family's connections, money could go a long way in making his stay at the prison somewhat easier. But, that could take time -- time Van Der Sloot may not have.

"You can get just about anything you want," Levine noted. "But he's in an isolation unit."

As he had throughout the interview, Levine made a dark observance: "He has nothing and he has no hope."

Joran Van Der Sloot is scheduled to meet with a Peruvian judge later this week to be questioned in the Stephany Flores Ramirez killing.

Van Der Sloot was detained in Chile on June 3 on an international warrant issued by Peruvian authorities after the body of Stephany Flores Ramirez was found in a Lima hotel room rented under Van Der Sloot's name. After extradition, he later confessed to the young woman's murder -- which occurred on May 30, five years to the day that Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba -- and was placed in Miguel Castro Castro Prison, where he awaits trial.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5506176/prison_expert_joran_van_der_sloot_is.html?cat=17


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 04:56:44 PM
I don't think Joran is the only one in the family that is "ziek in zijn hoofd".

Pretty sure Anita is unbalanced too if she thinks she can pass off Joran's rage killings as some sort of a treatable mental condition and mitigating circumstances for a reduced sentence.




If he wasn't in jail, we'd probably see him on Celebrity Rehab....maybe they could get a family discount.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 20, 2010, 04:59:32 PM
It would make sense to me that:

he called his father when he murdered Natalee and now that, that POS is rotting and burning in hell that:

he would call his mother for help, after being charged with aiding and abetting a murderer

my visual Anita in bullet proof vest being paraded by Peru LE for reporters. Yes that would make my day..

I can also imagine that lard ass squatting in the hole for a crap and blowing the damn prison up.

How am I am so mean, let me tell ya, for as long as I live I will never forget Beth being held up by 2 men (think one was her brother Paul) at the pond and another seeing her sitting across the table from pvds and avds, the POS sweating like a mad man, avds just sitting there while Beth gut wrenchingly just wanting to take her beautiful dau. home. that's all. nothing more..and the trash just sitting there letting her in so much pain..NO I will never forget it..NEVER.

Dang I have built up anger, I need to step back before I say what I really feel.

bbl

OS





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: NewfieMonkey on June 20, 2010, 05:12:07 PM
If he wasn't in jail, we'd probably see him on Celebrity Rehab....maybe they could get a family discount.
Sadly you're right.  The whole "reality TV" - What has happened to our morals ... our family units ... that not only attract dysfunctional "idols" - but makes it okay for them to BE "idols" ... and people (apparently alot of people) to feel the need to watch it ... like a train wreck.  SAD.

When I think about it ... I'm not surprised that there are Jorans and Caseys amongst us ... and I fear they are becoming increasingly present as society and family units fail. 

** and let me add - that family unit isn't the "mom,dad,two kids" - family unit is any immediate family, extended family, married in family, and community.  Takes a village to raise a child. **


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 05:12:22 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 05:12:40 PM
http://news.lalate.com/2010/06/20/mother-joran-van-der-sloot-is-mentally-sick/

Mother: Joran van der Sloot is Mentally Sick
Posted on June 20th, 2010 in Joran van der Sloot, Stephany Flores Ramirez by lalate

Mother Joran van der Sloot is Mentally Sick


LIMA, PERU  – Joran van der Sloot is mentally ill, says his mother Anita va der Sloot. Joran van der Sloot was en route to a mental institution before his fateful arrival in Lima, reveals mother Antia in an interview this weekend with Dutch paper De Telegraaf.

The Van Der Sloot family currently resides in Aruba. Anita claims that two days before her son was set to enter a mental institution in the Netherlands he disappeared; she said Joran left a note that he was going to Peru. She doesn’t explain why Joran specifically chose Peru as his destination.


Anita says she doesn’t think her son killed Holloway; she adds that if he did kill in Lima she won’t be visiting him in jail.

She says before Stephany Flores was murdered her son called her. “He said he was being followed. He had been arrested together with a girl and robbed. He was not making sense…. I can’t cry for Joran l



If the statement above is true to what Anita said, then this proves premeditation. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Sleuth on June 20, 2010, 05:13:57 PM
When Anita decides to make her grand entrance to Peru to visit her son and show support that is when Beth Twitty should visit Peru and show her support to the Flores family.

Can you see Anita's face if this happens.

LOL - now that would be something to see.   And she could see that her delicious sporter is not so tasty.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Sleuth on June 20, 2010, 05:22:41 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 05:26:38 PM
http://news.lalate.com/2010/06/20/mother-joran-van-der-sloot-is-mentally-sick/

Mother: Joran van der Sloot is Mentally Sick
Posted on June 20th, 2010 in Joran van der Sloot, Stephany Flores Ramirez by lalate

Mother Joran van der Sloot is Mentally Sick


LIMA, PERU  – Joran van der Sloot is mentally ill, says his mother Anita va der Sloot. Joran van der Sloot was en route to a mental institution before his fateful arrival in Lima, reveals mother Antia in an interview this weekend with Dutch paper De Telegraaf.

The Van Der Sloot family currently resides in Aruba. Anita claims that two days before her son was set to enter a mental institution in the Netherlands he disappeared; she said Joran left a note that he was going to Peru. She doesn’t explain why Joran specifically chose Peru as his destination.


Anita says she doesn’t think her son killed Holloway; she adds that if he did kill in Lima she won’t be visiting him in jail.

She says before Stephany Flores was murdered her son called her. “He said he was being followed. He had been arrested together with a girl and robbed. He was not making sense…. I can’t cry for Joran l



If the statement above is true to what Anita said, then this proves premeditation. 

Sounds like his first "confession" to the Chilean police....before he knew about the videotapes...two police chasing him...paranoia?? or alibi....hmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 20, 2010, 05:28:15 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Now the Peruvians will need a Dutch and English translator....sheesh....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 20, 2010, 05:29:34 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Thanks!
I can´t find an actual source for this, so I won´t believe it until I see some sort of official confirmation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 05:31:49 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Joe Tacopina is not qualified to practice Napoleonic Law.  It is a whole different set of rules.
You are presumed guilty until proven innocent.  There is no case law citing.  The rules are
the rules.  There is no remaining silent.  If you remain silent, the judge assumes you are guilty.
Taco said he is not on good terms with the family and that he does not want to spend the next
two years in Peru, but we all know Taco lies.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 05:34:41 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Thanks!
I can´t find an actual source for this, so I won´t believe it until I see some sort of official confirmation.


What would be the purpose of JoeT in Peru? He can't practice law in Peru, Aruba, NL or anywhere other than the USA.  Joran isn't an American citizen and Stephany wasn't an American citizen.  Joran needs a Peruvian attorney not some greaseball talking head from the US.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 05:42:57 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Joe Tacopina is not qualified to practice Napoleonic Law.   It is a whole different set of rules.
You are presumed guilty until proven innocent.  There is no case law citing.  The rules are
the rules.  There is no remaining silent.  If you remain silent, the judge assumes you are guilty.
Taco said he is not on good terms with the family and that he does not want to spend the next
two years in Peru, but we all know Taco lies.

I agree Magnolia.  If this is true I believe Joe Tacopina is only going to get Joran on the same page as everyone else.  Joe Tacopina will say I represent Joran in the extortion case.  There is a plan.

Believe it or not I think Joran respects Tacopina because he is as big of a liar as him and he makes a lot of money protecting criminals.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 05:52:07 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Joe Tacopina is not qualified to practice Napoleonic Law.   It is a whole different set of rules.
You are presumed guilty until proven innocent.  There is no case law citing.  The rules are
the rules.  There is no remaining silent.  If you remain silent, the judge assumes you are guilty.
Taco said he is not on good terms with the family and that he does not want to spend the next
two years in Peru, but we all know Taco lies.

I agree Magnolia.  If this is true I believe Joe Tacopina is only going to get Joran on the same page as everyone else.  Joe Tacopina will say I represent Joran in the extortion case.  There is a plan.

Believe it or not I think Joran respects Tacopina because he is as big of a liar as him and he makes a lot of money protecting criminals.

And they both have lackopenis...:-))


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 05:56:10 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Joe Tacopina is not qualified to practice Napoleonic Law.   It is a whole different set of rules.
You are presumed guilty until proven innocent.  There is no case law citing.  The rules are
the rules.  There is no remaining silent.  If you remain silent, the judge assumes you are guilty.
Taco said he is not on good terms with the family and that he does not want to spend the next
two years in Peru, but we all know Taco lies.

I agree Magnolia.  If this is true I believe Joe Tacopina is only going to get Joran on the same page as everyone else.  Joe Tacopina will say I represent Joran in the extortion case.  There is a plan.

Believe it or not I think Joran respects Tacopina because he is as big of a liar as him and he makes a lot of money protecting criminals.

And they both have lackopenis...:-))

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/xxx.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Curly on June 20, 2010, 06:00:42 PM
If Joran remains silent tomorrow, I hope the judge sends him to gen. pop.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 20, 2010, 06:01:41 PM
John Ludwick I had to reschedule my appearance on Fox News Channel "geraldo at large" til next saturday @ 10pm. Sorry it keeps changing, but I am a busy man and with that comes complications!
42 minutes ago

______________

yea right dick-wad.........Even Whoraldo can't listen to the likes of you.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 06:07:29 PM
If Joran remains silent tomorrow, I hope the judge sends him to gen. pop.

Wouldn't that be the best.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 06:07:57 PM
I wonder if Joran will have his fingers in his ears.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 20, 2010, 06:10:29 PM
No wonder this schmuck was a buddy of the monster.......now he claims he was aware of Joran having some type of psychological tests.......wonder who's lining his pockets now

FOXNews.com - Mother of Murder Suspect Van Der Sloot Says He Is 'Sick in His Head'


John Ludwick

The only comment i can make on that topic is when we were together in Aruba i was aware he recently did undergo some psychologial tests.
40 minutes ago

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 06:10:52 PM
John Ludwick I had to reschedule my appearance on Fox News Channel "geraldo at large" til next saturday @ 10pm. Sorry it keeps changing, but I am a busy man and with that comes complications!
42 minutes ago

______________

yea right dick-wad.........Even Whoraldo can't listen to the likes of you.



Just in time for the Saturday night comedy special.

Word of advice for you John wait until Kimberly Guilfoyle gets her hands on you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 20, 2010, 06:18:24 PM
John Ludwick I had to reschedule my appearance on Fox News Channel "geraldo at large" til next saturday @ 10pm. Sorry it keeps changing, but I am a busy man and with that comes complications!
42 minutes ago

______________

yea right dick-wad.........Even Whoraldo can't listen to the likes of you.



Just in time for the Saturday night comedy special.

Word of advice for you John wait until Kimberly Guilfoyle gets her hands on you.

I might even pay to see that go-round!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 06:31:30 PM
I wonder if Joran will have his fingers in his ears.


Oh, I wish he would just try!  As in this country, I am sure the judge is capable and authorized to physically require a position of respect to the court.  Even Hannibal Lecter did, lol.

I am pretty sure Joran would be restrained in such a manner to bring him into full compliance with showing respect for the court.  Maybe for the first time in his miserable life.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 20, 2010, 06:31:59 PM
Joran van der Sloot to open in jail
Published on : 20 June 2010 - 12:08pm | By Pablo Gámez (RNW)

The case against Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot gets underway on Monday, he will hear the charges against him during a formal opening in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Peru where he is being held.

The charges will be read out against the Dutchman by Judge Carlos Morales.

The arraignment will take place behind closed doors. In legal terms, what follows is the pre-trial investigation. Van der Sloot's detention can be extended up to twelve months.

During the investigation, the authorities will try to clarify the facts and determine any guilt. Police sources earlier reported that van der Sloot had confessed to the murder of 21-yearold Stephany Flores.

Student Flores was seen on CCTV entering van der Sloot's hotel room after the two had been at a poker tournament - the next day she was found dead and in the meantime van der Sloot had fled to Chile. He was handed back over to the Peruvian authorities after giving himself up to police.

Lawyers for van der Sloot have remained silent but question marks are said to have been raised about the confession.

If declared guilty, Van der Sloot faces a minimum of 15 years imprisonment.

In an exclusive interview with Radio Netherlands Worldwide, Edward Álvarez, lawyer of the Flores family, insists that despite concerns that Joran van der Sloot will get a fair trial in Peru:

"Peru is a democracy and therefore it has an unconditional respect for fundamental rights, among which the judiciary, and the institutions of the penal system guarantee that Joran van der Sloot's will get a fair trial. The principle of the assumption of innocence cannot be questioned until there is a solid and definite judgement."

The way in which Joran van der Sloot was put on display for the national and international press after his arrest provoked criticism in The Netherlands, suggesting that Van der Sloot "had already been condemned by the media."

Álvarez recognises that "there has been mass media attention. This happens frequently in the Peruvian legal system but we cannot, in any case, doubt the assumption of Joran van der Sloot's innocence. Neither can it be presented in a situation that affects his human dignity."

The organisation Prison Law, which supports prisoners worldwide, is one of the bodies that has raised concerns. Spokeswoman Rachel Imamkhan says he has little trust in the Peruvian justice system.

"My experience is that there is little chance of a fair trial in that country. Peru is a party to international treaties but in practice you see little of that."

What may help, according to Imamkhan is the international attention for the case

Evidence
Judge Morales Córdova will have at his disposal the results of psychological and psychiatric tests of Joran van der Sloot, as well as the autopsy report and expert reports in the preliminary investigation.

But Álvarez says there are still gaps:

"There are still many things to finish in the pre-trial investigation. One of the primary things is the reading of the contents of Joran van der Sloot's laptop. We do not know yet what information it contains. We also need to investigate the record of telephone calls that Stephany Flores received. We know that she received calls from Joran during the days before her death. There are people at the casino that were aware of Joran van der Sloot's presence: whether he won money and whether it is true if he entered the place with so much money."

The hard disc of Van der Sloot's computer could also contain information about the murder of US citizen Nathalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. Van der Sloot remains a suspect in that unresolved case.

Aruba and the US have already asked Peru about the kind of information that the laptop contains.


Extradition
Lawyer Álvarez insists that Joran van der Sloot "will definitely not be extradited. Peru does not have an agreement with the Netherlands, which makes this scenario impossible. Van der Sloot will have to serve his sentence in Peru."

RNW sources who wish to remain anonymous say that Joran van der Sloot's mother is trying to manage her son's extradition to the Netherlands.

http://www.rnw.nl/international-justice/article/joran-van-der-sloot-open-jail


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Dana on June 20, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
FYI
Tonight at 9pm et I will be a guest on a Canadian National Crime Show called Crime and Punishment.
Hosted by a regular guest on my program Mike McIntryre
To listen live in Canada by radio tune into your local Corus or Rawlco radio network nation wide.
To listen by internet tune into http://www.newstalk980.com/ click on the listen live link at the top of the page.

Dana
www.scaredmonkeysradio.com



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Frijole on June 20, 2010, 06:34:47 PM
Had to laugh when the translator came back with attorney Pina Taco.  (Tacopina)


That makes him a pineapple taco!  Yum Yum


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 06:35:55 PM
I guess the blood test Joran took recently was to see if he was on drugs or just naturallly that sleazy and warped in the head.

Maybe even to rule out organic reasons he is just a monster and loser.  Apparnetly it's in his DNA.  Hope they checked Anita as well as the problem seems to be hereditary.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 06:41:56 PM
FYI
Tonight at 9pm et I will be a guest on a Canadian National Crime Show called Crime and Punishment.
Hosted by a regular guest on my program Mike McIntryre
To listen live in Canada by radio tune into your local Corus or Rawlco radio network nation wide.
To listen by internet tune into http://www.newstalk980.com/ click on the listen live link at the top of the page.

Dana
www.scaredmonkeysradio.com



Thanks Dana! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JA on June 20, 2010, 06:57:38 PM
If Joran was really scheduled to go into a psychiatric unit in the Netherlands, I am sure it was more to be "stored away" someplace so they couldn't arrest him for the extortion plot.

If Anita insists that Joran did not kill Natalee than I am wondering if Paulus finished her off.  Joran may have called Papa Sloot after Natalee became injured, after being drugged, sexually assaulted, and possibly beat up.  Joran didn't know what to do because she wasn't dead but severely injured.  Paulus may have assessed the siutation and felt Natalee could recover with medical care. . . but would then be alive to tell what happened OR  she was so injured that Paulus felt she wasn't going to make it, so he took care of it for Joran.  If they had called medical personnel then Paulus knew Joran would go down for assault/drugging or whatever.

At first I believe Anita didn't know what happened to Natalee, but I really think she knows now.  I wonder how much the brothers know.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 07:07:23 PM
Should someone so out of touch with reality as Anita claims to be really be in charge of the care for the remaining minor child?  I know that Joran has yet to be convicted of anything legally but her assessment that he is only mentally ill leaves a great deal to be desired in the way of judgement and maturity and accepting responsibility.

I suspect Poppin is already a lost cause but he will be for sure if he stays in that house and is taught that his brother killing people is an equal loss with the victims and things like that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 07:13:18 PM
If Joran was really scheduled to go into a psychiatric unit in the Netherlands, I am sure it was more to be "stored away" someplace so they couldn't arrest him for the extortion plot.

If Anita insists that Joran did not kill Natalee than I am wondering if Paulus finished her off.  Joran may have called Papa Sloot after Natalee became injured, after being drugged, sexually assaulted, and possibly beat up.  Joran didn't know what to do because she wasn't dead but severely injured.  Paulus may have assessed the siutation and felt Natalee could recover with medical care. . . but would then be alive to tell what happened OR  she was so injured that Paulus felt she wasn't going to make it, so he took care of it for Joran.  If they had called medical personnel then Paulus knew Joran would go down for assault/drugging or whatever.

At first I believe Anita didn't know what happened to Natalee, but I really think she knows now.  I wonder how much the brothers know.


Anita and Paul had 5 years to work on a plan to put their little `rocket scientist` away in a safe place.

They had no intentions of doing it... or it would already be done.

The price of inaction is steep. She doesn`t have a prayer of saving him now.

For that, I am very thankful.

* I don`t want to know what eats.
*I don`t want to know what he sleeps on.
* I don`t want to know all the titles of the books HE IS NOT CURRENTLY READING.

I WANT HIM D-O-N-E. I don`t ever want another Nat or Steph to suffer again.

Let`s make this happen!

por favor, mis amigos peruanos matar al pequeño hijo de puta, hazlo ahora.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 07:16:01 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Nothing so far about him stepping down again, nor from the Netherlands Radio Network

Thanks!
I can´t find an actual source for this, so I won´t believe it until I see some sort of official confirmation.


What would be the purpose of JoeT in Peru? He can't practice law in Peru, Aruba, NL or anywhere other than the USA.  Joran isn't an American citizen and Stephany wasn't an American citizen.  Joran needs a Peruvian attorney not some greaseball talking head from the US.

Brazen showmanship-hoping for a chance to whitewash Joran's part in Natalee's case to anyone who will listen, imo.  Maybe he's not really going.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
I wonder if Joran will have his fingers in his ears.

hee, hee, hee ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 07:21:33 PM
Peruvian and Dutch media are reporting that a group of attorneys (including Tacopina)  is on its way to Peru because Maximo Altez is (again) stepping down from the case.
Anybody hear anything about this in the American press?

Maximo is in a state of ver klemptness ... er-flux! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 07:21:48 PM
A "group of attorneys"?  I doubt that.  The one he has keeps wanting to quit.  Who are these attorneys and who hired them and who is paying for them?

Lame attempt to intimidate the Peruvian judicial system.  Going to have the opposite effect than what they are hoping.

Nothing is going to swing international opinion in Joran's favor.

I just want someone to force him to tell the truth about what he did to and with Natalee while he is still among the living.


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 07:24:29 PM
Remember when I said that Tacopino would show up in this case and I was told that they (Tacop's and Sloots) were at odds.  That is not exactly what was said.  What was said by Taco is that the Joran being described by the media is not the Joran he knows and he trailed off as if to make the listener believe that he was not in touch with Anita, but remember I also said, he is a lawyer who would rather stand on his head and lie than sit straight up and tell the truth.  Then Les Levine to the lying rescue. 

Everyone had assumed that Anita had not paid him.  I assumed he was lying and was already on her speed dial.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 07:30:53 PM
FYI
Tonight at 9pm et I will be a guest on a Canadian National Crime Show called Crime and Punishment.
Hosted by a regular guest on my program Mike McIntryre
To listen live in Canada by radio tune into your local Corus or Rawlco radio network nation wide.
To listen by internet tune into http://www.newstalk980.com/ click on the listen live link at the top of the page.

Dana
www.scaredmonkeysradio.com



Thank you!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 07:35:17 PM
Tacopina is a media whore and will do anything to get media attention.  He can't bill himself as high profile if he is not in the media.  But there is nothing he can do in Peru.  He does not hold a license to practice there.  And it's not even the same mob, lol.

But, yeah, I have always expected to see his mug in front of the camera.  Not sure his bosses will want to maintain any connection with Sloots now, however.  Not even their standards are as low as Joran who is just a garden variety lowlife criminal.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 07:38:48 PM
Last week, or week before, whenever it was that Greta aired her taping of Joran in Thailand, I recall there was a tape in which Paulus was telling Joran that selling girls was wrong, supposedly based on the fact that Joran sold Natalee into slavery.  I don't believe that tape recording was made based on Natalee's disappearance, but that it was made based on Joran selling girls in Thailand and parts were edited to make it sound as though Joran had sold Natalee.  I think that was all part of a shell game that Paulus and Anita set up to help their low-life spawn from Satan (Anita).  Hmmmm, Ms. Satan, then.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 20, 2010, 07:49:54 PM
I'm surprised we haven't heard that Baez & A.L. aren't Peruvian bound also.  Being a consultant of sorts would be a good way that A.L. could exit the Anthony case and save face at the same time. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 07:50:13 PM
FYI
Tonight at 9pm et I will be a guest on a Canadian National Crime Show called Crime and Punishment.
Hosted by a regular guest on my program Mike McIntryre
To listen live in Canada by radio tune into your local Corus or Rawlco radio network nation wide.
To listen by internet tune into http://www.newstalk980.com/ click on the listen live link at the top of the page.

Dana
www.scaredmonkeysradio.com



Thanks Dana!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 08:00:17 PM
Am I just dreaming this or did I read it somewhere, sometime, someplace that Paulus has siblings who are in high-profile positions, perhaps in Spain, NL and who have money that could be padding the pocket of Anita, or is it Anita who has family with funding? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 08:05:33 PM
Posted by Johan555 on the front page of SM just now:

Johan
Submitted on 2010/06/20 at 5:17pm

Blaming the mother is imo unfair and let’s face it Joran hasn’t been found guilty of any crime yet.

Let us keep up the presumption of innocence until someone is proven guilty please.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 08:07:32 PM
Am I just dreaming this or did I read it somewhere, sometime, someplace that Paulus has siblings who are in high-profile positions, perhaps in Spain, NL and who have money that could be padding the pocket of Anita, or is it Anita who has family with funding? 

Much talk about Sloot relatives in the NL and money.  Not sure if we had any proof though.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 08:09:11 PM



Posted by Johan555 on the front page of SM just now:

Johan
Submitted on 2010/06/20 at 5:17pm

Blaming the mother is imo unfair and let’s face it Joran hasn’t been found guilty of any crime yet.

Let us keep up the presumption of innocence until someone is proven guilty please.


Sorry, but we are not under any obligation to do any such thing.  It's only the judiciary in a court of law that is required to have any presumption of anything.

The rest of us individuals are free to think whatever we please and voice that as well.

Go suck a lemon.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 08:11:43 PM
Am I just dreaming this or did I read it somewhere, sometime, someplace that Paulus has siblings who are in high-profile positions, perhaps in Spain, NL and who have money that could be padding the pocket of Anita, or is it Anita who has family with funding? 

Much talk about Sloot relatives in the NL and money.  Not sure if we had any proof though.


No, we never found any proof of anything, certainly no high profile anybody.  Some Sloots running for very small local council seats and such but nothing to indicate any money for sure.

I believe TxMom found some who owned a small local restaurant and seemed pretty weird, however.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 08:12:23 PM



Posted by Johan555 on the front page of SM just now:

Johan
Submitted on 2010/06/20 at 5:17pm

Blaming the mother is imo unfair and let’s face it Joran hasn’t been found guilty of any crime yet.

Let us keep up the presumption of innocence until someone is proven guilty please.


Sorry, but we are not under any obligation to do any such thing.  It's only the judiciary in a court of law that is required to have any presumption of anything.

The rest of us individuals are free to think whatever we please and voice that as well.

Go suck a lemon.

.

Wasn't he the fool with the hermit crabs?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 08:14:40 PM
Am I just dreaming this or did I read it somewhere, sometime, someplace that Paulus has siblings who are in high-profile positions, perhaps in Spain, NL and who have money that could be padding the pocket of Anita, or is it Anita who has family with funding? 

We have heard it both ways.  Paulus has kin in politics in Holland, but not high office.  There is a brother
in Spain, I believe.

We have heard that the money comes from Anita's side, but no proof of that.  We have also heard that
she was a lady of the evening before she married Paulus....no proof of that either.

There is a thread on the Van der Sloots here that TM and NR put together at the time Paulus died.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 08:15:24 PM
Carpe, I believe he was the one of hermit crab fame.  And he doesn't appear to have smartened up any, either.

The Prosecution, the ones with the case against a criminal is who represents We the People, the State or whoever the prosecuting body is.  They have a strong presumption of GUILT and not innocence.

Only the judiciary (judge or jury, whichever is presiding) is supposed to be impartial.

And we do have Freedom of Speech and the Press in this country.  Whether he likes it or not.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 08:16:32 PM



Posted by Johan555 on the front page of SM just now:

Johan
Submitted on 2010/06/20 at 5:17pm

Blaming the mother is imo unfair and let’s face it Joran hasn’t been found guilty of any crime yet.

Let us keep up the presumption of innocence until someone is proven guilty please.


Sorry, but we are not under any obligation to do any such thing.  It's only the judiciary in a court of law that is required to have any presumption of anything.

The rest of us individuals are free to think whatever we please and voice that as well.

Go suck a lemon.

.

Wasn't he the fool with the hermit crabs?

Yep, a total ass.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 08:16:33 PM
Yes Carpe - Johan claimed it was Caribbean hermit crab shell in the trap


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 08:17:11 PM
Johan is showing his true colors now. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 08:20:03 PM
Johan is showing his true colors now. 


Was he also the one who kept claiming Joran was in the psyche ward in NL as well?  Meanwhile photos of Joran in Thailand surfaced.

Regular little Sloot PR agent.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 08:24:41 PM
Johan is showing his true colors now. 


Was he also the one who kept claiming Joran was in the psyche ward in NL as well?  Meanwhile photos of Joran in Thailand surfaced.

Regular little Sloot PR agent.


Den Dadler, Den Dadler send Johan right over!! 8-))


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bud's Girl on June 20, 2010, 08:24:47 PM

May have already been posted ...

ON TLC Channel, there's a new program "N. Holloway" showing now, began at 7pm Central Time.  There's about 40 minutes left.  Repeats at 10pm.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 08:30:11 PM
I want Joran prosecuted to the full extent of the law for what he did to Stephany and I want him prosecuted horrifically for what he did to Natalee, Beth, Jug, Dave, Matt and all those who loved Natalee but what I wanted more was punishment for Joran's parents who made him into the monster that he is.

He did not have a father.  He had a spineless, passive man who married a confused dim-wit, who shaped this pathetic, soulless character into a mascot for all that is wrong with the traditional family.  I expect in an effort to promote her own selfish designs, that Anita totally and royally ruined this whole family.  Do I want Paulus to suffer?  I think he is and I think my wish may have come true, although I never wish anyone into Hell.  I have been taught always to pray for redemption for the fallen, but I cannot say that I lie awake at night bemoaning the fact that I feel, as I believe San does, that Paulus is in a warmer place than Anna and I today.  I just would like for Anita to join him but not before she has to suffer immeasurably and squirm in our sight on earth.  I want her journey to the big bonfire to be so miserable that she cries out for sympathy and admits all her shortcomings.  Of course, that would be well into Eternity, but I am patient, and I think Beth is even more so.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 08:30:32 PM

May have already been posted ...

ON TLC Channel, there's a new program "N. Holloway" showing now, began at 7pm Central Time.  There's about 40 minutes left.  Repeats at 10pm.



Thanks Bud's girl!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 08:32:21 PM

May have already been posted ...

ON TLC Channel, there's a new program "N. Holloway" showing now, began at 7pm Central Time.  There's about 40 minutes left.  Repeats at 10pm.



Thanks a bunch for the headsup.  I will turn there now so I do not miss the remainder and will record the repeat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Dana on June 20, 2010, 08:32:39 PM
FYI
Tonight at 9pm et I will be a guest on a Canadian National Crime Show called Crime and Punishment.
Hosted by a regular guest on my program Mike McIntryre
To listen live in Canada by radio tune into your local Corus or Rawlco radio network nation wide.
To listen by internet tune into http://www.newstalk980.com/ click on the listen live link at the top of the page.

Dana
www.scaredmonkeysradio.com



Thanks Dana!

Here is another link to listen from the net click on the listen live link when you get to the page
tonight at 9pm et

http://www.cjob.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 08:33:08 PM
I want Joran prosecuted to the full extent of the law for what he did to Stephany and I want him prosecuted horrifically for what he did to Natalee, Beth, Jug, Dave, Matt and all those who loved Natalee but what I wanted more was punishment for Joran's parents who made him into the monster that he is.

He did not have a father.  He had a spineless, passive man who married a confused dim-wit, who shaped this pathetic, soulless character into a mascot for all that is wrong with the traditional family.  I expect in an effort to promote her own selfish designs, that Anita totally and royally ruined this whole family.  Do I want Paulus to suffer?  I think he is and I think my wish may have come true, although I never wish anyone into Hell.  I have been taught always to pray for redemption for the fallen, but I cannot say that I lie awake at night bemoaning the fact that I feel, as I believe San does, that Paulus is in a warmer place than Anna and I today.  I just would like for Anita to join him but not before she has to suffer immeasurably and squirm in our sight on earth.  I want her journey to the big bonfire to be so miserable that she cries out for sympathy and admits all her shortcomings.  Of course, that would be well into Eternity, but I am patient, and I think Beth is even more so.


Tyler,
I think you just said that you hate them all.

So do I!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 08:40:38 PM

Posted by Johan555 on the front page of SM just now:

Johan
Submitted on 2010/06/20 at 5:17pm

Blaming the mother is imo unfair and let’s face it Joran hasn’t been found guilty of any crime yet.

Let us keep up the presumption of innocence until someone is proven guilty please.


Sorry, but we are not under any obligation to do any such thing.  It's only the judiciary in a court of law that is required to have any presumption of anything.

The rest of us individuals are free to think whatever we please and voice that as well.

Go suck a lemon.


Wasn't he the fool with the hermit crabs?

Yep, a total ass.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 08:48:52 PM
Os painter, if you are here, I just want to say hello and tell you that you have been missed and it is good to see you;  We have had lots of nights here together sharing our feelings about the Joran monster, and I have always enjoyed your posts


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 09:05:50 PM
Carpe, I believe he was the one of hermit crab fame.  And he doesn't appear to have smartened up any, either.

The Prosecution, the ones with the case against a criminal is who represents We the People, the State or whoever the prosecuting body is.  They have a strong presumption of GUILT and not innocence.

Only the judiciary (judge or jury, whichever is presiding) is supposed to be impartial.

And we do have Freedom of Speech and the Press in this country.  Whether he likes it or not.


And we will use that Freedom to it's fullest.

Sometimes you have to wonder what some peoples agenda is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 20, 2010, 09:14:11 PM
MSNBC has a Joran van der sloot documentary special on now....started at 9pm EST


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 20, 2010, 09:15:46 PM
Os painter, if you are here, I just want to say hello and tell you that you have been missed and it is good to see you;  We have had lots of nights here together sharing our feelings about the Joran monster, and I have always enjoyed your posts

Hi Tyler

TY

It's great to see you too. Yes many many nights, I think I have forgotten more than I ever knew about this case, but some things just stand out so vivid that it tugs at my heart.

Those monsters made their choice, now let them suffer the consequences.

I just hope and pray before jvds is taken out that he or someone tells the damn truth.

If I were the k2's, I sure would be talking. I would bet money he throws them under the bus as soon as he can. He will never admit he is responsible for what happened to Natalee. Either k2's or his POS father. He will blame one or all of them, no doubt in my mind.

OS







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 09:25:03 PM
These are two new documentaries already.  I hope Aruba knows about them and that the whole world now knows what they did and how they refused to collect any evidence, resulting in the death of yet another young innocent girl.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 09:25:33 PM
Os painter, if you are here, I just want to say hello and tell you that you have been missed and it is good to see you;  We have had lots of nights here together sharing our feelings about the Joran monster, and I have always enjoyed your posts

Hi Tyler

TY

It's great to see you too. Yes many many nights, I think I have forgotten more than I ever knew about this case, but some things just stand out so vivid that it tugs at my heart.

Those monsters made their choice, now let them suffer the consequences.

I just hope and pray before jvds is taken out that he or someone tells the damn truth.

If I were the k2's, I sure would be talking. I would bet money he throws them under the bus as soon as he can. He will never admit he is responsible for what happened to Natalee. Either k2's or his POS father. He will blame one or all of them, no doubt in my mind.

OS







I am sure he is being coached to do that by his attorneys, but I am like you, I want to see his a** admit honestly what he did to Natalee, so that Beth will have some kind of closure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 20, 2010, 09:29:44 PM
MSNBC has a Joran van der sloot documentary special on now....started at 9pm EST

Watching now, thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 09:33:11 PM
I want Joran prosecuted to the full extent of the law for what he did to Stephany and I want him prosecuted horrifically for what he did to Natalee, Beth, Jug, Dave, Matt and all those who loved Natalee but what I wanted more was punishment for Joran's parents who made him into the monster that he is.

He did not have a father.  He had a spineless, passive man who married a confused dim-wit, who shaped this pathetic, soulless character into a mascot for all that is wrong with the traditional family.  I expect in an effort to promote her own selfish designs, that Anita totally and royally ruined this whole family.  Do I want Paulus to suffer?  I think he is and I think my wish may have come true, although I never wish anyone into Hell.  I have been taught always to pray for redemption for the fallen, but I cannot say that I lie awake at night bemoaning the fact that I feel, as I believe San does, that Paulus is in a warmer place than Anna and I today.  I just would like for Anita to join him but not before she has to suffer immeasurably and squirm in our sight on earth.  I want her journey to the big bonfire to be so miserable that she cries out for sympathy and admits all her shortcomings.  Of course, that would be well into Eternity, but I am patient, and I think Beth is even more so.

I do feel the same way Tyler.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 09:36:14 PM
These are two new documentaries already.  I hope Aruba knows about them and that the whole world now knows what they did and how they refused to collect any evidence, resulting in the death of yet another young innocent girl.

.

Once again Aruba has a negative light shining on them and they deserve all that they will get for covering up for a monster called Joran van der Sloot.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 09:46:15 PM
We could tell and I mean for a fact certain that not only was Joran guilty but that he would likely kill again!  We knew he was guilty and that's why we have been here for five long years.

So how could we know and garner this from the facts available and yet Aruba be so clueless?

Answer:  If we knew, they for damn sure did and yet they REFUSED to collect evidence the way Peru did from the start.  These people are so arrogant they think tourists are disposable and they are at liberty to treat them any way the please--no one can stop them for they are a law unto themselves, accountable to none of the social contracts of other civilized people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 20, 2010, 09:47:14 PM
Os painter, if you are here, I just want to say hello and tell you that you have been missed and it is good to see you;  We have had lots of nights here together sharing our feelings about the Joran monster, and I have always enjoyed your posts

Hi Tyler

TY

It's great to see you too. Yes many many nights, I think I have forgotten more than I ever knew about this case, but some things just stand out so vivid that it tugs at my heart.

Those monsters made their choice, now let them suffer the consequences.

I just hope and pray before jvds is taken out that he or someone tells the damn truth.

If I were the k2's, I sure would be talking. I would bet money he throws them under the bus as soon as he can. He will never admit he is responsible for what happened to Natalee. Either k2's or his POS father. He will blame one or all of them, no doubt in my mind.

OS







I am sure he is being coached to do that by his attorneys, but I am like you, I want to see his a** admit honestly what he did to Natalee, so that Beth will have some kind of closure.

I hope for that too.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 09:51:46 PM
MSNBC has a Joran van der sloot documentary special on now....started at 9pm EST

Watching now, thanks!

Thanks!  I wish I had caught this one, it doesn't show a replay. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 09:54:45 PM
We could tell and I mean for a fact certain that not only was Joran guilty but that he would likely kill again!  We knew he was guilty and that's why we have been here for five long years.

So how could we know and garner this from the facts available and yet Aruba be so clueless?

Answer:  If we knew, they for damn sure did and yet they REFUSED to collect evidence the way Peru did from the start.  These people are so arrogant they think tourists are disposable and they are at liberty to treat them any way the please--no one can stop them for they are a law unto themselves, accountable to none of the social contracts of other civilized people.


I agree with everything you said Anna.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 09:54:49 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 09:56:57 PM
We could tell and I mean for a fact certain that not only was Joran guilty but that he would likely kill again!  We knew he was guilty and that's why we have been here for five long years.

So how could we know and garner this from the facts available and yet Aruba be so clueless?

Answer:  If we knew, they for damn sure did and yet they REFUSED to collect evidence the way Peru did from the start.  These people are so arrogant they think tourists are disposable and they are at liberty to treat them any way the please--no one can stop them for they are a law unto themselves, accountable to none of the social contracts of other civilized people.


I agree with everything you said Anna.

Me too! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 09:57:03 PM
We could tell and I mean for a fact certain that not only was Joran guilty but that he would likely kill again!  We knew he was guilty and that's why we have been here for five long years.

So how could we know and garner this from the facts available and yet Aruba be so clueless?

Answer:  If we knew, they for damn sure did and yet they REFUSED to collect evidence the way Peru did from the start.  These people are so arrogant they think tourists are disposable and they are at liberty to treat them any way the please--no one can stop them for they are a law unto themselves, accountable to none of the social contracts of other civilized people.


I agree with everything you said Anna.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 09:59:57 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

Good for you Magnolia!  I know I have experienced the same treatment from others over the years, NOW it's a whole different story.  They are all starting to see what we've seen all along.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 10:00:25 PM
We could tell and I mean for a fact certain that not only was Joran guilty but that he would likely kill again!  We knew he was guilty and that's why we have been here for five long years.

So how could we know and garner this from the facts available and yet Aruba be so clueless?

Answer:  If we knew, they for damn sure did and yet they REFUSED to collect evidence the way Peru did from the start.  These people are so arrogant they think tourists are disposable and they are at liberty to treat them any way the please--no one can stop them for they are a law unto themselves, accountable to none of the social contracts of other civilized people.


I agree with everything you said Anna.

LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:04:36 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

I'm right with you Magnolia.  It is a good feeling.  But in the same instance it is sad that another murder had to happen for people to believe what we have known all along.

My one sister tried to tell me something about the case and I go to her "are you kidding me" I know all I need to know about Joran van der Sloot.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:05:33 PM
We could tell and I mean for a fact certain that not only was Joran guilty but that he would likely kill again!  We knew he was guilty and that's why we have been here for five long years.

So how could we know and garner this from the facts available and yet Aruba be so clueless?

Answer:  If we knew, they for damn sure did and yet they REFUSED to collect evidence the way Peru did from the start.  These people are so arrogant they think tourists are disposable and they are at liberty to treat them any way the please--no one can stop them for they are a law unto themselves, accountable to none of the social contracts of other civilized people.


I agree with everything you said Anna.

What gave you the first hint....LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 20, 2010, 10:06:42 PM
Posted by Johan555 on the front page of SM just now:

Johan
Submitted on 2010/06/20 at 5:17pm

Blaming the mother is imo unfair and let’s face it Joran hasn’t been found guilty of any crime yet.

Let us keep up the presumption of innocence until someone is proven guilty please.




http://twitter.com/johan555


Johan555 posted
#872 on: Today at 05:11:13 PM johann
Yes sure i have send the pics also to several  biologists and they all  say it is a caribian hermit crab
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4344.860

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #767 8/5
« Reply #322 on: August 15, 2008, 12:12:47 AM »
I don't believe that at all,Joran is in Den Dolder
They want that we > think he is in Thailand 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3167.msg411456#msg411456


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #763 7/6
« Reply #937 on: July 11, 2008, 10:20:32 AM »
I was there several times 
I think they have to protect him
So when he wants to leave the facility there is alway another person next to him (police or a small bodyguard)
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3029.msg398093#msg398093



Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #328 on: June 24, 2008, 12:51:48 PM »
Sorry this is not Joran
This is a look a like
Joran is in Den Dolder (Altrecht )

johan555 member of
www.aruba.com
www.scaredmonkeys.net
http://www.qype.co.uk/people/johann555/reviews
http://208.86.2.42/member.php?u=51652
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/johan555-m71142.html
http://www.halo3forum.com/members/johan555-28148.html

a frog as his avatar on this forum
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/1935

http://www.mkv2vob.com/member.php?action=profile&uid=9277
http://www.publicdemands.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=26016
http://missingpersonforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=164
http://www.docstoc.com/profile/johan555/contacts/

says his work is:
ict, SMF developer


Nokia N73

Ich habe ein: Nokia N73 I have a: Nokia N73






cap
26 februari 2009 om 18:29 February 26, 2009 at 18:29
Patrick van der Eem gefilmd bij Amerikaanse douane voordat hij werd teruggestuurd..: Patrick van der Eem filmed by U.S. Customs before he was returned ..:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcad95Rdv6A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcad95Rdv6A
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.boublog.nl/2008/11/25/de-leugens-van-joran-en-de-pr-tegen-gielen/comment-page-5/&ei=pH18StKdNpGoMPf-8OUC&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djohan555%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D80

johan555 on Oct 31, 08 at 05:15 PM
Hawaiiis beautiful!! I love the place. The people are so friendly and the landscape is awesome. To me it is "The" paradise.
I was 2 times robbed on Aruba and the whole island is 1 big party

I would always choose Hawaii!
http://www.fodors.com/community/caribbean-islands/aruba-or-hawaii.cfm


pornBB :: View Forum - XXX Movies
1, johan555, 1027, Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:13 pm 34_BLADE_34. Insatiable Voyage ... 1, johan555, 933, Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:52 pm craigtnelson ...
www.pornbb.org/archive.php/o_f/f_1/start.../index.html


johan555 says:
ek is lief vir natalie's ma se poes
Posted On: Friday, Mar. 20 2009 @ 5:13PM
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/juice/2009/03/natalee_holloway_body_found_aruba.php



http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/DenDOLDER.jpg?t=1209035041


BLOG WHERE CAPS AND THAT ANIMO GUY ETC WERE BLOGGING:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.boublog.nl/2008/11/25/de-leugens-van-joran-en-de-pr-tegen-gielen/comment-page-5/&ei=_ZGXSoXzHI2QNvPruJ8F&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJohan555%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D90







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:07:19 PM
I miss the smileys and I saw that I could change the subject and message icon and I said this will due for now...LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 10:08:30 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

Bravo, Magnolia.  I bet they are now convinced, too, that there is an oil spill in the Gulf.  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 20, 2010, 10:11:19 PM
No wonder this schmuck was a buddy of the monster.......now he claims he was aware of Joran having some type of psychological tests.......wonder who's lining his pockets now

FOXNews.com - Mother of Murder Suspect Van Der Sloot Says He Is 'Sick in His Head'


John Ludwick

The only comment i can make on that topic is when we were together in Aruba i was aware he recently did undergo some psychologial tests.
40 minutes ago

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

I'm going to shut that guys mouth up so quick it is going to make everyone's head spin. DON'T MAKE ME POST THE SUCKERS!!!!!

I'm just a tiny ity bit sick of these people lying their buttinsky's off to cover-up.

fingers tapping
trigger finger about to slip


tick..............tock

keep on talking Johnny boy
Keep it up.

I'm watching.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 10:11:44 PM
I'm borng people?

Well, I found two brand new programs in one night pretty exciting myself.

The first one had that smartass Bryan Burroughs who wrote that nasty article in Vanity Fair long ago, suddenly singing a different song but still pretending it was some how Beth's fault that Aruba "turned" on her.

And the second was a good review and very open with the fact that aruba refused to do anything with lots of JQK.  And Dave Holloway as well.

There is no defense for Aruba refusing to even try to collect evidence for ten days.  Peru has put Aruba to shame.  And I hope they drown in that shame.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 10:12:13 PM
I miss the smileys and I saw that I could change the subject and message icon and I said this will due for now...LOL


and a big thumbs up to you too, San.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:12:27 PM
Magnolia I think I need a new hat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 20, 2010, 10:13:49 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

You can be very proud of yourself for standing in truth all these years.

I gotta back away.............my trigger finger is about to pull that Ludwigs pants down.
Gonna take a walk or maybe I'll email Geraldo! Heh Heh.






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kermit on June 20, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
I'm borng people?

Well, I found two brand new programs in one night pretty exciting myself.

The first one had that smartass Bryan Burroughs who wrote that nasty article in Vanity Fair long ago, suddenly singing a different song but still pretending it was some how Beth's fault that Aruba "turned" on her.

And the second was a good review and very open with the fact that aruba refused to do anything with lots of JQK.  And Dave Holloway as well.

There is no defense for Aruba refusing to even try to collect evidence for ten days.  Peru has put Aruba to shame.  And I hope they drown in that shame.

Please do not think you are boring anyone. I read your posts and gather the info.........
I just am not posting to each post, but take heart I do read all the posts.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:15:36 PM
I'm borng people?

Well, I found two brand new programs in one night pretty exciting myself.

The first one had that smartass Bryan Burroughs who wrote that nasty article in Vanity Fair long ago, suddenly singing a different song but still pretending it was some how Beth's fault that Aruba "turned" on her.

And the second was a good review and very open with the fact that aruba refused to do anything with lots of JQK.  And Dave Holloway as well.

There is no defense for Aruba refusing to even try to collect evidence for ten days.  Peru has put Aruba to shame.  And I hope they drown in that shame.

No you are not boring Anna.  I agree Peru has put Aruba to shame at every level.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:16:10 PM
I'm borng people?

Well, I found two brand new programs in one night pretty exciting myself.

The first one had that smartass Bryan Burroughs who wrote that nasty article in Vanity Fair long ago, suddenly singing a different song but still pretending it was some how Beth's fault that Aruba "turned" on her.

And the second was a good review and very open with the fact that aruba refused to do anything with lots of JQK.  And Dave Holloway as well.

There is no defense for Aruba refusing to even try to collect evidence for ten days.  Peru has put Aruba to shame.  And I hope they drown in that shame.

No Anna - you aren't boring San is just playing around.  Not bored at you she is just missing the smileys and is fooling around with the SUBJECT because you can choose a message icon there.  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 10:16:45 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

Bravo, Magnolia.  I bet they are now convinced, too, that there is an oil spill in the Gulf.  LOL

Someone even said:....stuff Van der Sloot in the BP well.  :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:16:53 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

You can be very proud of yourself for standing in truth all these years.

I gotta back away.............my trigger finger is about to pull that Ludwigs pants down.
Gonna take a walk or maybe I'll email Geraldo! Heh Heh.


Go email Geraldo about that idiot John Ludwick.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 10:19:45 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

You can be very proud of yourself for standing in truth all these years.

I gotta back away.............my trigger finger is about to pull that Ludwigs pants down.
Gonna take a walk or maybe I'll email Geraldo! Heh Heh.


Go email Geraldo about that idiot John Ludwick.

Pants on the ground, Pants on the ground.
Johan and Ludwigs looks like fools
with their pants on the ground.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 10:22:45 PM
DO IT, Kermit!  And by all means send any info on this clown to Geraldo.  And Nancy Grace.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

You can be very proud of yourself for standing in truth all these years.

I gotta back away.............my trigger finger is about to pull that Ludwigs pants down.
Gonna take a walk or maybe I'll email Geraldo! Heh Heh.


Go email Geraldo about that idiot John Ludwick.

Pants on the ground, Pants on the ground.
Johan and Ludwigs looks like fools
with their pants on the ground.

LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 10:29:34 PM
For years at the family Sunday dinners, they have all made fun of me and said that if
there was evidence, Aruba would have arrested Joran and the Kalpoes.

Today was a whole different story.  It was Old Eli who first said: Well, I don't think
I believe that Joran Van der Snoot anymore.  If Aruba had arrested him this girl in
Peru would still be alive.
Then somebody said:  I hope Peru will hang him; he's an animal.
Then I heard:  It is all Aruba's fault for not stopping him after Natalee's death. It was all a cover-up.
Etc..etc..etc.

I felt vindicated.

You can be very proud of yourself for standing in truth all these years.

I gotta back away.............my trigger finger is about to pull that Ludwigs pants down.
Gonna take a walk or maybe I'll email Geraldo! Heh Heh.


Go email Geraldo about that idiot John Ludwick.

Pants on the ground, Pants on the ground.
Johan and Ludwigs looks like fools
with their pants on the ground.

LOL

Where I come from we call that guy a `pud swinger`

Only Joran doesn`t have one... so he`s catching nothing but air.

His parents better catch him... or he`s gonna hurt himself!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:30:33 PM
Kermit -  I think you should send it too.  Send to Geraldo, Greta, Nancy Grace, JVM any and all.  John Ludwick is a clingon and has asked for the spotlight.  Let's give him his wish!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 20, 2010, 10:35:51 PM
Kermit -  I think you should send it too.  Send to Geraldo, Greta, Nancy Grace, JVM any and all.  John Ludwick is a clingon and has asked for the spotlight.  Let's give him his wish!

Let's wipe that smirk off his face.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 10:37:57 PM
I think Ludwick is looking to make a buck.  He wants somebody to "license" his
emails like they did Melony's diary.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 10:41:29 PM
If he was helping and international fugitive, send any information about this to Interpol as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:41:33 PM
I think Ludwick is looking to make a buck.  He wants somebody to "license" his
emails like they did Melony's diary.

Ludwick hasn't got shit, sorry but he doesn't.  At least Melody has known Joran for years not 2 months.  Not to mention that Melody was intimate with Joran.  Oh wait, maybe John was too, lol...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:42:51 PM
If he was helping and international fugitive, send any information about this to Interpol as well.

Yes, Interpol and the FBI


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MuffyBee on June 20, 2010, 10:44:06 PM
I miss the smileys and I saw that I could change the subject and message icon and I said this will due for now...LOL


San-
Acckkk!  I hope you and the others don't start changing the subject line.  It' gets really messy and hard to follow when I look at the index, when I try to see where monkeys have posted something.  Look at the index under "home" San, and then it will show who made a post. Just above that is has a short description, which is the subject line.   It makes it appear to be totally another new thread.  Someone else was doing this and I had asked Klaas to have them stop changing a subject line within a thread.  Do you see what I mean?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Spock on June 20, 2010, 10:44:58 PM
If Joran was really scheduled to go into a psychiatric unit in the Netherlands, I am sure it was more to be "stored away" someplace so they couldn't arrest him for the extortion plot.

If Anita insists that Joran did not kill Natalee than I am wondering if Paulus finished her off.  Joran may have called Papa Sloot after Natalee became injured, after being drugged, sexually assaulted, and possibly beat up.  Joran didn't know what to do because she wasn't dead but severely injured.  Paulus may have assessed the siutation and felt Natalee could recover with medical care. . . but would then be alive to tell what happened OR  she was so injured that Paulus felt she wasn't going to make it, so he took care of it for Joran.  If they had called medical personnel then Paulus knew Joran would go down for assault/drugging or whatever.

At first I believe Anita didn't know what happened to Natalee, but I really think she knows now.  I wonder how much the brothers know.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 20, 2010, 10:46:14 PM
Peru LE must check Western Union for anything sent for Joran van der Sloot, Lima Peru.  Someone helped him get enough money to hire that taxi.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Spock on June 20, 2010, 10:46:26 PM

If Joran was really scheduled to go into a psychiatric unit in the Netherlands, I am sure it was more to be "stored away" someplace so they couldn't arrest him for the extortion plot.

If Anita insists that Joran did not kill Natalee than I am wondering if Paulus finished her off.  Joran may have called Papa Sloot after Natalee became injured, after being drugged, sexually assaulted, and possibly beat up.  Joran didn't know what to do because she wasn't dead but severely injured.  Paulus may have assessed the siutation and felt Natalee could recover with medical care. . . but would then be alive to tell what happened OR  she was so injured that Paulus felt she wasn't going to make it, so he took care of it for Joran.  If they had called medical personnel then Paulus knew Joran would go down for assault/drugging or whatever.

At first I believe Anita didn't know what happened to Natalee, but I really think she knows now.  I wonder how much the brothers know.



"Your own father"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 10:49:25 PM
If he was helping and international fugitive, send any information about this to Interpol as well.

Yes, Interpol and the FBI

I was looking today for an old email address and I looked in "contacts".
There it was......FBI.. Birmingham Office. 
Thanks to Kermit.  It made me LOL.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 10:57:11 PM
I know similar has already been posted but will repost anyway:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gwakQu_5PFon0fJdDP98gM9iADFg

Peru, Aruba murder suspect to face questioning

(AFP) – 2 hours ago

LIMA — The Dutch suspect in the killing of a US teenager on holiday in Aruba five years ago will go before a judge Monday to face questions about the killing of a young Peruvian woman in May.

Joran Van der Sloot, who confessed to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores, found beaten to death in his Lima hotel room, has been held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison since June 11 after confessing to the crime.

His Peruvian lawyer Maximo Altez has told local media that Van der Sloot plans to avoid responding to the judge's questions in a bid to invalidate the police investigation.

Altez said his client would not speak to authorities until the court accepts a writ of habeas corpus for him to challenge his detention. The document was filed a week ago and requested a new police interrogation in the presence of a Altez, a prosecutor and a translator.

Police say their previous interrogation already took place under these circumstances.

In quotes released by Peruvian authorities, Van der Sloot, 22, said he was motivated to kill Flores after she used his laptop without his permission and saw information linking him to the Natalee Holloway case.

He has been charged with first-degree murder in the Flores case, along with aggravated robbery for allegedly taking more than 10,000 dollars of gambling money from Flores.

"She had no right" to see the computer, he said, according to police. "I approached her, she was frightened. We discussed it and she tried to escape. I grabbed her by the neck and hit her."

Van der Sloot has long been a prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Holloway, who went missing after a night of drinking with him on the Caribbean island of Aruba.

The son of a prominent judge, Van der Sloot was twice arrested in connection with Holloway's disappearance and spent three months in jail but was never charged.

Foreign attorneys are expected to arrive in Lima in July to help Van der Sloot's defense. One of the lawyers is Joseph Tacopina, who defended the Dutchman in the Holloway case.

The investigation stage of the Flores case could last three to 12 months before giving way to a public trial.

The court has also sought psychological and psychiatric evaluations of Van der Sloot.

Meanwhile, Van der Sloot's mother said in an interview with the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf that her son suffers from psychological problems and was scheduled to receive treatment at a mental institution in May but instead departed for Peru.

"My son is sick in the head," the newspaper quoted Anita Van der Sloot as saying. She said he had called her days before Flores was killed, sounding "paranoid" and complaining that he was "being followed."

Van der Sloot has told Peruvian police that he knew where to find Holloway's body, and Peruvian officials said they would contact authorities in Aruba if new information were to surface.

"In the event that any evidences arises related to the death of the young American woman (Holloway), the court will assess this evidence and take the necessary measures to obtain proof" and share the information with Dutch authorities, Judge Carlos Morales said.

The Holloway case attracted huge media attention in the United States, the Caribbean and Europe, but was never solved.

Flores was killed on the same day -- May 30 -- of Holloway's disappearance five years ago in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:03:49 PM
I'm sure I'm beyond the curve -- but TLC has a Natalee special on  - RIGHT NOW!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 11:06:51 PM
You won't believe what Siddalee posted in a thread at RU titled ANITA:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Siddallee062010.jpg)


Someone should remind Renfro's mom (Siddalee) that that Aruba and Peru has Joran van der Sloot in common.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 11:08:16 PM
I'm sure I'm beyond the curve -- but TLC has a Natalee special on  - RIGHT NOW!

Thanks Wreck!  Is it a new one?  Dateline was on earlier and it was a repeat from about a week ago.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 20, 2010, 11:09:14 PM
I heard Catherine Crier talking to Harry Smith on Friday's Early Show and she said:
Why isn't Aruba down there talking to him now.  There is nothing stopping them.
They don't want to talk to him or they would be there right now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 11:10:26 PM
Congratulations! You are now being repped by Batman.

This guy has to live in a cave with Alfred and Boy Wonder!


"Joran van der Sloot's lawyer, Máximo Altez, has decided he will continue to defend his client. Earlier he announced he was quitting because of "numerous family problems", but Radio Netherlands Worldwide has learned that he has now decided to go ahead regardless. He has, however, moved to a secret location since the windows of his office were smashed."

http://gawker.com/5564862/joran-van-der-sloot-needs-a-new-lawyer


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:14:36 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:18:06 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 11:18:46 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.

Thanks guys!  I'm won't be able to watch so let us know if anything new or especially good!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:19:03 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:25:56 PM
They are interspersing Julia Renfro comments -- I'm IRATE!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:28:32 PM
This is FAIR and balanced!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:29:24 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:30:17 PM
They are now mentioning Peru -- This is NEW!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 11:30:25 PM
Calm down Wreck.  Everyone hasn't seen Renfro for the witch she is like we have.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 20, 2010, 11:31:28 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0

AH, so is the Renfro stuff from last January's show? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:31:40 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0
Thanks -- but, at least it is updated!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:38:17 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0

AH, so is the Renfro stuff from last January's show? 

Yes, so far.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 20, 2010, 11:40:03 PM
You won't believe what Siddalee posted in a thread at RU titled ANITA:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Siddallee062010.jpg)


Someone should remind Renfro's mom (Siddalee) that that Aruba and Peru has Joran van der Sloot in common.

It was even less safe when Joran was there.  I bet he read what she has posted (before she even knew about it) and figured "man, that's the place for me.  I can go on a killing spree, and some local will be blamed...I will feel like I am back in Aruba.  I need to call Julia to see what she thinks."  She and Anita wish him well on his journey and he is off to the killing fields.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:41:28 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0

AH, so is the Renfro stuff from last January's show? 

Yes, so far.
I don't know how I missed this -- but, I have not seen this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:46:10 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0

AH, so is the Renfro stuff from last January's show? 

Yes, so far.
I don't know how I missed this -- but, I have not seen this.

I kept posting reminders for you!  It was replayed a few times over a month or so.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 20, 2010, 11:46:16 PM
Joran known only to extradition
Joran van der Sloot, the murder of Stephany Flores known only as the Peruvian police would extradite him to the Netherlands. "I framed," says Joran in De Telegraaf.

The Dutchman was in Peru during the interrogation scared and confused have been. At the hearing he would always be told that if he signed the confession to the Netherlands could.

"In my blind panic when I have everything signed, but did not even know what it was," says Joran. He is now questioned by the judge, but plans to remain silent.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran-bekende-alleen-om-uitlevering.xml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 20, 2010, 11:49:12 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0

AH, so is the Renfro stuff from last January's show? 

Yes, so far.
I don't know how I missed this -- but, I have not seen this.

I kept posting reminders for you!  It was replayed a few times over a month or so.
I plead insanity! But, they a ARE mentioning Peru in the "teases" -- so maybe it is updated!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:49:42 PM
Well Anita got what she wanted.  Joran went on with his life...continued his life of CRIME...AND KILLED ANOTHER INNOCENT GIRL!

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 20, 2010, 11:50:38 PM
Joran known only to extradition
Joran van der Sloot, the murder of Stephany Flores known only as the Peruvian police would extradite him to the Netherlands. "I framed," says Joran in De Telegraaf.

The Dutchman was in Peru during the interrogation scared and confused have been. At the hearing he would always be told that if he signed the confession to the Netherlands could.

"In my blind panic when I have everything signed, but did not even know what it was," says Joran. He is now questioned by the judge, but plans to remain silent.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran-bekende-alleen-om-uitlevering.xml

ESAD whackadoodle boy! In my BLIND PANIC.

Histrionic little drama queen.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:51:44 PM
I have not seen this TLC special -- but that is just me!

It's been UPDATED to include the events in Peru.
Thanks! This DOES look NEW!

It's not completely new.  It's the one you kept missing, remember?  I posted a transcript of the original showing back in January.  I'm recording it and will try to add an update to the transcript sometime this week.

The part you're watching now is part of the transcript here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6961.0

AH, so is the Renfro stuff from last January's show? 

Yes, so far.
I don't know how I missed this -- but, I have not seen this.

I kept posting reminders for you!  It was replayed a few times over a month or so.
I plead insanity! But, they a ARE mentioning Peru in the "teases" -- so maybe it is updated!

You're not insane, it is in the title...UPDATED!  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:54:54 PM
Joran known only to extradition
Joran van der Sloot, the murder of Stephany Flores known only as the Peruvian police would extradite him to the Netherlands. "I framed," says Joran in De Telegraaf.

The Dutchman was in Peru during the interrogation scared and confused have been. At the hearing he would always be told that if he signed the confession to the Netherlands could.

"In my blind panic when I have everything signed, but did not even know what it was," says Joran. He is now questioned by the judge, but plans to remain silent.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran-bekende-alleen-om-uitlevering.xml

ESAD whackadoodle boy! In my BLIND PANIC.

Histrionic little drama queen.

Yep, and full of shit too!  He makes me sick!

I hope he finds out tomorrow in no uncertain terms that HE'S NOT IN ARUBA, and he's not running the show now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 20, 2010, 11:56:40 PM
JohnQuinonesABC
.I'm back on GMA Monday morning with the latest from Joran Van der Sloot's mom. Says it's time to "let Joran go." Check it out...7:30 AM.

http://twitter.com/JohnQuinonesABC


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 20, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
JohnQuinonesABC
.I'm back on GMA Monday morning with the latest from Joran Van der Sloot's mom. Says it's time to "let Joran go." Check it out...7:30 AM.

http://twitter.com/JohnQuinonesABC

OMG, she's the one that needs to be committed!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 12:06:47 AM
If one were truly in a blind panic... their statement would read as follows:

Heebie beebie bleebie ummmm bloooooooooop eeeeeem neener neener neener.

Sign your name on that, doofus.

X________________


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 21, 2010, 12:09:11 AM
If one were truly in a blind panic... their statement would read as follows:

Heebie beebie bleebie ummmm bloooooooooop eeeeeem neener neener neener.

Sign your name on that, doofus.

X________________


Exactly!!  Those Sloots think they are slick, but the video and the taxi drivers that he implicated
will nail him...I hope!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 12:12:40 AM
If one were truly in a blind panic... their statement would read as follows:

Heebie beebie bleebie ummmm bloooooooooop eeeeeem neener neener neener.

Sign your name on that, doofus.

X_MONSTER____

Here I signed his name.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 12:13:29 AM
That hit man cell mate of his has gleaned enough information from Joran by now that even if they let him go, he probably would not make it to the security fence before his face would be smashed and his little anatomical privates ground between this big bad Juan's fist.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 12:31:00 AM
If one were truly in a blind panic... their statement would read as follows:

Heebie beebie bleebie ummmm bloooooooooop eeeeeem neener neener neener.

Sign your name on that, doofus.

X_MONSTER____

Here I signed his name.

LOL - Perfect!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 12:34:37 AM
 
What Joran waiting?
What time is Joran now respond? The Dutch Probation has put it all in a row in a folder. According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, there are currently 117 Dutch established in Peru and that's no fun. The brochure will literally: "Please note that the legal system and prisons in Peru are different in the Netherlands."

To Lima
Peru trial differs significantly from the Dutch, writes probation. When Joran was arrested in Peru, he put down for up to 24 hours in the local police station. Probably as soon as he moved to Lima, where he was in prison disappears. He must await his trial.

The remand
The stay in prison is pretty heavy. First of all his belongings confiscated. Probation wrote: "Experience has shown that you are not everything and sometimes nothing at all of your personal belongings back." The judicial investigation in Peru they take plenty of time, it may just three years before everything is finalized. That is slightly more than 90 days that they are in the Netherlands has earmarked.

Stuck in Peru
The probability that Joran could serve his sentence in the Netherlands, is currently zero. Netherlands and Peru are negotiating on a treaty that the Dutch could serve their sentences here, but it could easily take years, before the Netherlands and Peru to reach an agreement. If they have come to an agreement. Until then, Joran is just stuck, even during his custody, for release on bail for foreigners is almost impossible.

The lawsuit
The case of Joran will be first in front of the judge examined by the prosecutor in front of a judge and a lawyer. He has a theoretical right to a Dutch interpreter, but they are hardly in Peru. Many Dutch therefore take pleasure in an English-speaking interpreter, although that is often deficient. The trial itself will take place in public. Three independent judges speak an opinion. Two of the three conviction of the guilt of Joran, they will come to a penalty. Which, in the case of Joran up to 25 years prison.

Prison
Joran is probably one of the two prisons in Lima right. The probation writes about: "In practice, the situation in most prisons are seriously flawed. The food is poor to fair, giving you extra food to buy." That must be out of pocket, but that Joran luck: Dutch in a cell outside Europe will be a monthly donation of the Dutch state for necessary things. Who need them after their sentences are not refundable.

The prisons are overcrowded and often centuries old. TB and hepatitis are there frequently. Medical care in Peruvian prisons is poor. And the dentist? Forget it. "Only the amount necessary [is] implemented, such as pulling teeth," writes probation.

The penalty is the punishment
If Joran is sentenced to 25 years, there is little chance that he is released early. There are three ways to previously released to come: he can pardon given by the President (but get that you only in case of such disease), he gets sentences in exchange for valuable information (but this happens mostly in drug matters) or he could na third of his sentence claim semi-libertad. This is a kind of conditional probation, which he only allowed to spend in Peru.

http://www.nieuwslijst.nl/algemeen/joran-bekende-alleen-om-uitlevering_a1532967.html?l=selection


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 12:39:02 AM
Van der Sloot's mother back: My son is sick in the head (+ video)

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands In the interview with the newspaper De Telegraaf, Anita van der Sloot, Joran admitted that her son, convicted murderer and confessed Stephany Flores, is sick in the head and traveled to Peru to avoid referral to a mental institution in Aruba, where his family lives, going back this time its initial closed defense when he said it was "not the monster who would like to see the media."

This new version contradicts the letter sent several days ago on ABC, where he stated that his son "is traumatized, depressed and have an addiction," but "not the monster who would like to see (media) .

However it is possible that the recent statements by Anita van der Sloot obey a legal strategy aimed at mitigating the liability of the alleged murderer of mental disorders, which could only be established by expert psychiatrists.

Furthermore, Van der Sloot's mother must show that his son was undergoing medical treatment, said the newspaper as Dutchman.

In judicial circles, it was noted that this version of Anita van der Sloot does not have much grip as it was never reported to the authorities in Aruba when Joran was being investigated for the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway.

The father, Paulus van der Sloot, a Dutchman died lawyer, nor waved that argument and, by contrast, was arrested for alleged complicity in the murder of Holloway. He was released and died in February when disputing a match tenir in Aruba.

http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/118290/31/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 12:43:17 AM
Peru, Aruba murder suspect to face questioning
(AFP) – 3 hours ago

LIMA — The Dutch suspect in the killing of a US teenager on holiday in Aruba five years ago will go before a judge Monday to face questions about the killing of a young Peruvian woman in May.

Joran Van der Sloot, who confessed to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores, found beaten to death in his Lima hotel room, has been held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison since June 11 after confessing to the crime.

His Peruvian lawyer Maximo Altez has told local media that Van der Sloot plans to avoid responding to the judge's questions in a bid to invalidate the police investigation.

Altez said his client would not speak to authorities until the court accepts a writ of habeas corpus for him to challenge his detention. The document was filed a week ago and requested a new police interrogation in the presence of a Altez, a prosecutor and a translator.

Police say their previous interrogation already took place under these circumstances.

In quotes released by Peruvian authorities, Van der Sloot, 22, said he was motivated to kill Flores after she used his laptop without his permission and saw information linking him to the Natalee Holloway case.

He has been charged with first-degree murder in the Flores case, along with aggravated robbery for allegedly taking more than 10,000 dollars of gambling money from Flores.

"She had no right" to see the computer, he said, according to police. "I approached her, she was frightened. We discussed it and she tried to escape. I grabbed her by the neck and hit her."

Van der Sloot has long been a prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Holloway, who went missing after a night of drinking with him on the Caribbean island of Aruba.

The son of a prominent judge, Van der Sloot was twice arrested in connection with Holloway's disappearance and spent three months in jail but was never charged.

Foreign attorneys are expected to arrive in Lima in July to help Van der Sloot's defense. One of the lawyers is Joseph Tacopina, who defended the Dutchman in the Holloway case.

The investigation stage of the Flores case could last three to 12 months before giving way to a public trial.

The court has also sought psychological and psychiatric evaluations of Van der Sloot.

Meanwhile, Van der Sloot's mother said in an interview with the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf that her son suffers from psychological problems and was scheduled to receive treatment at a mental institution in May but instead departed for Peru.

"My son is sick in the head," the newspaper quoted Anita Van der Sloot as saying. She said he had called her days before Flores was killed, sounding "paranoid" and complaining that he was "being followed."

Van der Sloot has told Peruvian police that he knew where to find Holloway's body, and Peruvian officials said they would contact authorities in Aruba if new information were to surface.

"In the event that any evidences arises related to the death of the young American woman (Holloway), the court will assess this evidence and take the necessary measures to obtain proof" and share the information with Dutch authorities,
Judge Carlos Morales said.

The Holloway case attracted huge media attention in the United States, the Caribbean and Europe, but was never solved.

Flores was killed on the same day -- May 30 -- of Holloway's disappearance five years ago in Aruba.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gwakQu_5PFon0fJdDP98gM9iADFg


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 12:45:57 AM
"Joran is as good as dead"

Joran van der Sloot is doomed. The Dutch serial killer does not stand a chance in the Peruvian Miguel Castro Castro prison to survive. Until that concludes an American expert on crime and prisons.

In the breakfast program broadcast on CBS The Early Show, the expert Larry Levine last week to explain why Joran is as good as last, reports gossip website Radar Online. Levine is the only advice for the multiple murderer could think of was to pray much: "You will not survive. What else you can do is pray, because you will be killed, and so you can better enjoy the time you you still on earth ". Or the wicked sociopath will follow this advice is questionable.

Levine also explained why he thinks that Joran's last hours has already beaten. As the father of his victim Stephany Flores rich and powerful, there will certainly be over by a fellow prisoner bribed in order Van der Sloot to murder: "This jail is dangerous, full of murderers and terrorists. Stephany's father is a prominent person and this is a dilapidated prison. If you pay the right people will make sure someone stabbing a knife into the boy. "

http://www.bruno.nl/nieuws/5257/joran-is-zo-goed-als-dood.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 12:51:26 AM
JohnQuinonesABC
.I'm back on GMA Monday morning with the latest from Joran Van der Sloot's mom. Says it's time to "let Joran go." Check it out...7:30 AM.

http://twitter.com/JohnQuinonesABC

OMG, she's the one that needs to be committed!

Where did I read that before, lol

http://refugeesunleashed.net/about22749.html


Maybe she means it's time for HER to let Joran go?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 01:00:28 AM
JohnQuinonesABC
.I'm back on GMA Monday morning with the latest from Joran Van der Sloot's mom. Says it's time to "let Joran go." Check it out...7:30 AM.

http://twitter.com/JohnQuinonesABC

OMG, she's the one that needs to be committed!

Where did I read that before, lol

http://refugeesunleashed.net/about22749.html


Maybe she means it's time for HER to let Joran go?

Could be, that would make more sense.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 01:07:11 AM
Reporters speaking telegraph Dutchman celJoran 'I'm framed'

LIMA (Peru) - Joran van der Sloot said false promises by the Peruvian police force him to sign a confession, encouraged it. Dutchman accused of the murder stated this yesterday during an exclusive interview with De Telegraaf in the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima.

I was scared during the interrogation and confused and wanted to leave, "said Joran cells in the hallway where he and a Colombian assassin convicted of corruption and a Peruvian General's residence. "If you sign these papers, you will be extradited to the Netherlands, I was always kept. "In my blind panic when I have everything signed, but did not know what was there." The conversation took place at a table in the jail.

"I'm tricked into," says Van der Sloot on the murder of Stephanie Flores. "How exactly all this is gone, I'll tell you later," said Van der Sloot.

For the whole interview The Associated Press

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7002855/__Joran___Ik_ben_erin_geluisd___.html?sn=binnenland, abroad


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: peachflower on June 21, 2010, 01:08:28 AM
I think this is new?

Joran only confessed for extradition
Joran of of the ditch have only confessed the assassination on Stephany Flores because the Peruvian police force would extradite him then to the Netherlands.
 have been deloused, say Joran in a conversation with two report donors of the telegraph, who looked up him in the Castro Castro prison in Lima.
Blind person panic

I was during interrogate appalling frightened and in the war and wild. At the verhoor him have been always represented that he - if he signed the consent - to the Netherlands be extradited. In my blind person panic I have then signed everything, but not even knew what stood there, claim Joran.
For the judge

He is questioned today by the judge, but intends to be silent. The Dutchman seems himself to have laid down at a long stay in the Peruvian prison. My lawyer has said that I must count that the years still at least two last before it reaches a process. Up to that time I will talk no longer substantive concerning the matter, thus of of the ditch.
Assassinated

The person whose birthday it isperson whose birthday it is person whose birthday it is of of the ditch is stuck because he the Peruvian Stephany Flores assassinated. Afterwards he beat on the flight to Chile with a taxi.

http://www.worldlingo.com/SYls3jUpdI3K8StnamzwNVzlsmfyTCbsUsZbrxpDzkcM-/translate





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 01:10:03 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_Grad00o9.jpg)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/StephanyFlores_1.jpg)

Truth & Justice
for Natalee and Stephany!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: peachflower on June 21, 2010, 01:14:20 AM
He was allowed to give an interview to the press in his cell?
that seems very strange if true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:21:24 AM
Reporters speaking telegraph Dutchman celJoran 'I'm framed'

LIMA (Peru) - Joran van der Sloot said false promises by the Peruvian police force him to sign a confession, encouraged it. Dutchman accused of the murder stated this yesterday during an exclusive interview with De Telegraaf in the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima.

I was scared during the interrogation and confused and wanted to leave, "said Joran cells in the hallway where he and a Colombian assassin convicted of corruption and a Peruvian General's residence. "If you sign these papers, you will be extradited to the Netherlands, I was always kept. "In my blind panic when I have everything signed, but did not know what was there." The conversation took place at a table in the jail.

"I'm tricked into," says Van der Sloot on the murder of Stephanie Flores. "How exactly all this is gone, I'll tell you later," said Van der Sloot.

For the whole interview The Associated Press

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7002855/__Joran___Ik_ben_erin_geluisd___.html?sn=binnenland, abroad

Joran is hoping of a repeat/retraction like his 2005 confession and I don't think he's going to be as lucky this time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:22:34 AM
He was allowed to give an interview to the press in his cell?
that seems very strange if true.

Yes, I think American media was trying to interview him too but he said he would only do one with the Dutch.  He is charged yet not convicted yet so I guess it's OK? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: peachflower on June 21, 2010, 01:32:54 AM
It just seems strange that journalists can go in an interview someone that is on a high security jail.
I thought that being there, even if not yet convicted, demanded that they apply the same rules as the ones convicted. I never heard them mention there was a separate place for those awaiting trial.
Do that means that he can receive visitors anytime and its not bound by the same rules as the rest of the ones jailed?
I wonder if they made an exception with him and if so...why?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: billb's daughter on June 21, 2010, 01:34:39 AM
urine can try to retract his confession to Peruvian investigators....doesn't matter really.
Unlike aruba, where the evidence collected 'disappeared' to allow urine a free pass in the murder of Natalee.....
PLE doesn't need a confession.....the collected forensic evidence, video, witnesses tell the story of Stepany's murderer (urine). Add that they found monies Stepany won along with her credit cards in urine's possession upon his arrest...urine is toast....he will never leave Castro Castro...unyil he is in a body bag.....
Karma sucks urine....like the blue tarp you used to wrap Natalee....
Rest in Hell (RIH).......Don't worry, your pos mother will be joining you and papa eventually......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:37:08 AM
It just seems strange that journalists can go in an interview someone that is on a high security jail.
I thought that being there, even if not yet convicted, demanded that they apply the same rules as the ones convicted. I never heard them mention there was a separate place for those awaiting trial.
Do that means that he can receive visitors anytime and its not bound by the same rules as the rest of the ones jailed?
I wonder if they made an exception with him and if so...why?

I have no idea if any exception has been made for him.  There were at least 2 other news groups that were given tours of the jail area including Joran's cell this last week.  Joran said he would only speak to the Dutch media.  I have no idea if this is special treatment but I think not. 

He is in a separate area for high profile cases right now.  They say he should go into general population in the next couple months or so.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: peachflower on June 21, 2010, 01:41:10 AM
It just seems strange that journalists can go in an interview someone that is on a high security jail.
I thought that being there, even if not yet convicted, demanded that they apply the same rules as the ones convicted. I never heard them mention there was a separate place for those awaiting trial.
Do that means that he can receive visitors anytime and its not bound by the same rules as the rest of the ones jailed?
I wonder if they made an exception with him and if so...why?

I have no idea if any exception has been made for him.  There were at least 2 other news groups that were given tours of the jail area including Joran's cell this last week.  Joran said he would only speak to the Dutch media.  I have no idea if this is special treatment but I think not. 

He is in a separate area for high profile cases right now.  They say he should go into general population in the next couple months or so.

I do hope you are right and there is nothing out of the ordinary about this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 01:48:32 AM
This is a snippet (last paragraph) of something posted a page or two back --

"The father, Paulus van der Sloot, a Dutchman died lawyer, nor waved that argument and, by contrast, was arrested for alleged complicity in the murder of Holloway. He was released and died in February when disputing a match tenir in Aruba."

http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/118290/31/ (http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/118290/31/)

I know there are translation issues, but "disputing" sort of jumped out. Wonder if he got worked up over a call, as in a tournament?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:51:50 AM
This is a snippet (last paragraph) of something posted a page or two back --

"The father, Paulus van der Sloot, a Dutchman died lawyer, nor waved that argument and, by contrast, was arrested for alleged complicity in the murder of Holloway. He was released and died in February when disputing a match tenir in Aruba."

http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/118290/31/ (http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/118290/31/)

I know there are translation issues, but "disputing" sort of jumped out. Wonder if he got worked up over a call, as in a tournament?

Ah, could be?  We'll likely never know for sure.

Time for me to call it a night.  Goodnight all!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: peachflower on June 21, 2010, 01:53:01 AM
I guess you were right, Klaas. I went and searched if Fujimori ever got interviews and got something better than that. He got a day pass from his cell to attend his daughter wedding.
They are a lot more open minded than me...hehehe

Sachi Marcela Fujimori, 30, wed Mark Koening, a German, in front of 40 close family and friends at the tiny chapel inside the facility where Fujimori has his special jail cell.

The bride lives overseas but was said to be determined to have her father at her side at the altar.
The Government granted Fujimori a pass to leave his cell to attend the ceremony. Alan Garcia, the Peruvian President, dismissed charges from political opponents that he was receiving special treatment.
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 02:17:15 AM
Just got into the office and saw that there is another interview in De Telegraaf - this time with Joran.
I saw part of it was already posted here but I'll try and buy the paper on my lunch break and see if there's any new interesting info in it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 21, 2010, 02:36:57 AM
A forum written in Dutch??? I believe it is. posted 6/19/2010

From yesterday on their forum - Link http://www.hanff.nl/viewtopic.php?p=63630#p63630

DE arrestatie van Joran was niet alleen wereldnieuws. Het was voor zijn moeder Anita van der Sloot (53) op Aruba na jaren ook een eindpunt. Voor het eerst spreekt ze. Zijn moeder zal Joran niet opzoeken in zijn Peruaanse cel. „Als hij dit heeft gedaan, moet hij de consequenties dragen. Ik kan hem niet omarmen.” Zij stelt dat haar zoon de afgelopen jaren psychisch zwaar in de problemen raakte. „Zijn vertrek naar Peru was een vlucht, om te ontkomen aan een kliniek.”

Elke zoon heeft een moeder. Ook de van moord verdachte Joran. Anita van der Sloot vond enkele weken terug een briefje: ’Ik ben weg, maak je geen zorgen’. Ze zag haar oudste zoon voor het eerst weer toen hij door de Peruaanse politie geboeid op de tv werd getoond.
Jarenlang stond ze achter hem. „Ik geloofde Joran. Ondanks zijn vele leugens. Ik voelde dat hij niets met de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway had te maken in 2005. Hij had haar achtergelaten op het strand. Dat geloof ik nog steeds.” Maar, zegt ze ook: „Stephany kan hij hebben gedood.”
In een half jaar tijd verloor ze twee leden van haar gezin. In februari overleed haar man, de ex-rechter Paul van der Sloot, tijdens een spelletje tennis. „Hij is ervan beschuldigd dat hij Joran had geholpen. Het is niet zo. Niemand hamerde er harder op bij Joran dat hij de waarheid moest spreken. Op tv werd een karikatuur van Paul gemaakt. Hij was een zachte, eerlijke, betrokken man.”

I used Google translator - and English version 6/19/10  is:
THE arrest of Joran was not only world news. It was his mother, Anita van der Sloot (53) years on Aruba after an endpoint. For the first time she speaks. His mother will not go after Joran in his Peruvian cell. "If he did, he must bear the consequences. I can not embrace him. "She claims that her son was severely mentally in recent years ran into trouble. "His departure to Peru was a flight to escape from a clinic."
Each son has a mother. The murder suspect Joran. Anita van der Sloot was a few weeks back a note: "I'm gone, do not worry. She saw her eldest son for the first time when he was captivated by the Peruvian police were shown on TV.
For years she stood behind him. "I believe Joran. Despite his many lies. I felt he was nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway had to do in 2005. He had left on the beach. I still believe that. "But, she says:" Stephany he may have slain. "
  In half years she lost two members of her family. Died in February her husband, former judge Paul van der Sloot during a game of tennis. "He is accused of Joran had helped. It is not. Nobody insisted it harder to Joran that he had to speak the truth. On TV was a caricature of Paul. He was a gentle, honest, committed man. "
____________
-- my thoughts:
Anita goes round and round. She still cannot admit her Son is wack? If she believes that " her precious" has no responsibility within Natalee ..and she can free admit as a " Ooops" he could have though Murdered Stephany ....... errr  Stephany is not a boobie prize~ sorry Anita. She was once a beautiful young girl prior to meeting up with your SON. YOUR Son is a Natural Born Killer. Get over your twisted " Not My Son" thoughts ... that he is above the law, he is above everything. He is not your Prince that you groomed him to be.  He now spits in your face and " Mother Anita" can't handle it .. because she wiped his bum from birth till he was 18. Which draws her to his defense I believe. He was Daddy's Boy - quite the contrary of spoiled young man. Normally they are Mama's boys. I don't think Joran had connection with his Mother or Father- he was though the center of his mother's universe. He learned how to manipulate early on and only grew stronger .. to be who he is today.
She " Anita" can't stand the thought that he/Joran to this day only comes to her when it's too late.. for $$, for secrets, for tall tales to be whispered, for his downfalls, for she is only his Run to ... Mother please believe me, I am your son. She knows he feels no value for her, he has no respect for her. Yet she stands for him.   
She gave him everything growing up.  He/Joran is just like his Father.." His Father" was above being intimate within raising Joran - He was too important in personality/structure. Just like he was too important to be a Husband. Which fuels every fire of Anita - to stand by her son. Sloot Sr- as father figure never gave him/Joran a second's notice ..Until he got into trouble. For Daddy's benefit it was, not for Joran's did he get involved. This family has " self righteous"  stamped on their foreheads. WE Are the "Van Der Sloots". Not until Natalee did they become " Team" What a EMPTY " Rich" Loathing Family.

I bet Joran cried in his pillow at some point today -" Father's Day"-- that He no longer had his Daddy to protect him and use his friends within .. to offer him a get out of Peru Card.

link - Father's day is celebrated in Peru
http://www.mimisarubanapartments.com/About_Aruba.html

 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Deenie on June 21, 2010, 02:44:15 AM
Father's Day in Aruba, I meant. -  Link Father's day " holiday" noted in Aruba.
http://www.mimisarubanapartments.com/About_Aruba.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 03:43:08 AM
Joran: rats, using a toilet inside
Joran van der Sloot gets in his cell at night visit of rats.

That he told two reporters from The Associated Press, who in the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima sought out. According to the newspaper, the Dutchman a calm impression, and he resigned themselves to a long stay in the jail. In the immense building are 4000 prisoners.

Contract killing
Van der Sloot, which in Peru is suspected of the murder of Stephany Flores, staying close to the entrance of the prison. He is currently in a eenpersoonscel near a Colombian assassin convicted of corruption and a Peruvian general.

Rats
The Dutchman has recently acquired a mattress, as has been seen on the images that CNN was in his cell. Van der Sloot says that at night through a rat in his cell toiletgat crawl. To prevent this, he night wet newspapers on the hole.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran_ratten_toilet.xml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: peachflower on June 21, 2010, 04:04:35 AM
Joran: rats, using a toilet inside
Joran van der Sloot gets in his cell at night visit of rats.

That he told two reporters from The Associated Press, who in the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima sought out. According to the newspaper, the Dutchman a calm impression, and he resigned themselves to a long stay in the jail. In the immense building are 4000 prisoners.

Contract killing
Van der Sloot, which in Peru is suspected of the murder of Stephany Flores, staying close to the entrance of the prison. He is currently in a eenpersoonscel near a Colombian assassin convicted of corruption and a Peruvian general.

Rats
The Dutchman has recently acquired a mattress, as has been seen on the images that CNN was in his cell. Van der Sloot says that at night through a rat in his cell toiletgat crawl. To prevent this, he night wet newspapers on the hole.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran_ratten_toilet.xml

So he gets a daily paper too?
I am baffled by the amenities he has.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 21, 2010, 05:06:17 AM
Joran: rats, using a toilet inside
Joran van der Sloot gets in his cell at night visit of rats.

That he told two reporters from The Associated Press, who in the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima sought out. According to the newspaper, the Dutchman a calm impression, and he resigned themselves to a long stay in the jail. In the immense building are 4000 prisoners.

Contract killing
Van der Sloot, which in Peru is suspected of the murder of Stephany Flores, staying close to the entrance of the prison. He is currently in a eenpersoonscel near a Colombian assassin convicted of corruption and a Peruvian general.

Rats
The Dutchman has recently acquired a mattress, as has been seen on the images that CNN was in his cell. Van der Sloot says that at night through a rat in his cell toiletgat crawl. To prevent this, he night wet newspapers on the hole.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran_ratten_toilet.xml

Read it this morning in the Telegraaf: LOL. Like seeks like! The rats must think that without Joran their ratpack isn't complete! LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 21, 2010, 05:19:33 AM
Joran: rats, using a toilet inside
Joran van der Sloot gets in his cell at night visit of rats.

That he told two reporters from The Associated Press, who in the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima sought out. According to the newspaper, the Dutchman a calm impression, and he resigned themselves to a long stay in the jail. In the immense building are 4000 prisoners.

Contract killing
Van der Sloot, which in Peru is suspected of the murder of Stephany Flores, staying close to the entrance of the prison. He is currently in a eenpersoonscel near a Colombian assassin convicted of corruption and a Peruvian general.

Rats
The Dutchman has recently acquired a mattress, as has been seen on the images that CNN was in his cell. Van der Sloot says that at night through a rat in his cell toiletgat crawl. To prevent this, he night wet newspapers on the hole.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran_ratten_toilet.xml

Read it this morning in the Telegraaf: LOL. Like seeks like! The rats must think that without Joran their ratpack isn't complete! LOL

Forgot: he'll soon appreciate the rats for their extra, lovely and nutritious flesh. Lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JA on June 21, 2010, 05:38:32 AM
Rats=Birds of a feather flock together, Joran.  May you you may learn to enjoy their company.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 06:02:17 AM
Just got De Telegraaf (they were giving them away for free at the store!) and there's really not much more in the article than there is already posted online.

Just that he said he's come to terms with the fact that he's going to be inside for a long time. His lawyer said that it can take up to at least two years until his trial starts. And until that time he won't speak about the case itself.

And get a load of this:
"My lawyer is now focusing on the procedural errors that have been made. So there was really no need for me to be here."


More in tomorrow's paper!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 06:16:40 AM
This is a snippet (last paragraph) of something posted a page or two back --

"The father, Paulus van der Sloot, a Dutchman died lawyer, nor waved that argument and, by contrast, was arrested for alleged complicity in the murder of Holloway. He was released and died in February when disputing a match tenir in Aruba."

http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/118290/31/ (http://www.cronicaviva.com.pe/content/view/118290/31/)

I know there are translation issues, but "disputing" sort of jumped out. Wonder if he got worked up over a call, as in a tournament?


Hummm, would this mean that Paulus lost his last case ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 06:29:49 AM
Joran Van Der Sloot Retracts Confession In Peru Murder Of Stephany Flores  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/21/joran-van-der-sloot-retra_n_619089.html

AMSTERDAM — A Dutch newspaper that interviewed Joran van der Sloot in his prison cell in Lima, Peru, said Monday he has retracted his confession to the killing of a young woman there.

De Telegraaf said the 22-year-old Dutchman claims he only signed papers admitting killing Stephany Flores because he was intimidated by police and had been promised he would be transferred to the Netherlands if he confessed.

"I was very scared and confused during the interrogations and wanted to get away," the paper quoted him as saying. "In my blind panic, I signed everything, but didn't even know what it said."

Van der Sloot is the main suspect in Flores' May 30 killing in a Lima hotel, exactly 5 years after the still unsolved disappearance of U.S. teen Natalee Holloway on Aruba. He met both women in casinos, and both were last seen alive in his company.

Peruvian President Alan Garcia has said Van der Sloot will have to be tried in Flores' death before any extradition request can be considered. In addition to possible involvement in Holloway's disappearance, for which Van der Sloot has not been charged, he is wanted by the FBI on suspicion of attempting to extort money from the Holloway family.

If convicted of killing Flores, he faces from 15 to 35 years in prison in Peru.

Prosecutors allege Van der Sloot killed Flores in his hotel room, where her body was found, with "ferocity and great cruelty." According to a transcript of the confession, he elbowed the young woman in the nose, strangled her with both hands, threw her to the floor, took off his bloodied shirt and asphyxiated her.

The newspaper said he now says that's not true.

"I was tricked," the paper quoted Van der Sloot as saying of Flores' killing. "I'll explain later how it all happened."

He is scheduled to be interviewed by a judge in Lima this week.

A self-avowed compulsive liar, Van der Sloot has several times given and retracted admissions of involvement in Holloway's disappearance.

He is being held in a segregated block of the maximum-security Castro Castro prison in eastern Lima. He asked to be separated from the main prison population out of fear for his life.

For now he has his own 6.6-by-11.5-foot (2-by-3.5-meter) cell, which is adjacent to that of a reputed Colombian hit man, with whom he shares a television set.

Van der Sloot told the Telegraaf that rats crawl into his room through his toilet hole at night.

His mother Anita van der Sloot said in an interview published by the same newspaper over the weekend that Van der Sloot suffers from mental problems. She said she doesn't believe he had killed Holloway, but if he killed Flores "he'll have to pay the price" and she didn't plan to visit him in jail.

Holloway's father Dave has called on Van der Sloot to reveal anything he knows about the location of her body, which has never been found. Van der Sloot has said he will only talk about the matter with Aruba authorities.

Flores' father Ricardo told the Associated Press in an earlier interview that his daughter had resisted her attacker, who he is certain was Van der Sloot. He said the Dutchman would be linked to the crime by DNA evidence retrieved from under her fingernails.

He said he hopes that Van der Sloot will eventually be punished for the deaths of both women "so that there can be justice."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 06:50:39 AM
Van der Sloot: 'I was tricked'

By the CNN Wire Staff
June 21, 2010 6:02 a.m. EDT


Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot was "tricked" into confessing to the murder of a Peruvian student, Stephany Flores Ramirez, he says in a Dutch newspaper article published Monday.

Peruvian police told him that if he signed the papers they gave him, he would be transferred to the Netherlands, he told De Telegraaf in a jail interview.

"In my blind panic I signed everything, but never knew what was written on them," he said.

He is scheduled to appear in a Peruvian court Monday for a hearing into the death of Flores, 21.

Attorney Maximo Altez said van der Sloot's statement in court will focus on how his rights were violated during the investigation.

Altez has maintained that the judge in the case should strike down van der Sloot's confession because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

But Peruvian police have defended the interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession was acquired legally.

According to transcripts of his confession, van der Sloot said he elbowed Flores in the face before strangling her and then suffocating her with his shirt.

The transcripts -- provided to CNN by a police source -- provide shocking details and give the public its first glimpse of why van der Sloot says the alleged murder took place. The source has not been named because he was not authorized to pass along the material.

Peruvian authorities have charged van der Sloot with murder. He's also been considered the main suspect in the well-publicized 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

Van der Sloot told authorities he attacked Flores on May 30 after she read an e-mail on his computer connected with the Holloway case.

In the transcript, van der Sloot said that after Flores read the e-mail, she punched him in the face.

"At that moment impulsively, with my right elbow I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose," van der Sloot said. "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."

Van der Sloot said he had a quick thought to try and hide the body but instead fled.

He was arrested in Chile on June 3 and was returned the next day to Peru. Along with killing Flores, who had a broken neck, he took money and bank cards from her wallet, police said.

Van der Sloot told police in Chile a different story of how Flores died when he was arrested there, according to transcripts. He blamed the death on robbers who had waited for him at his hotel in Peru.

"There was a man coming from the access door with a knife in his hand," van der Sloot said. "The man with the knife hit her in the face, making her bleed through the nose."

But Peru authorities said they had overwhelming evidence pointing to van der Sloot, and when he was transferred to Peru, van der Sloot confessed to the crime, police said.

Van der Sloot said he was in Peru for a poker tournament and had met Flores while he was gambling.

Police have said they think van der Sloot killed Flores to steal money she won from gambling.

Van der Sloot offered a different motive.

"After I responded with hitting her, I feared that she would go to the police and they would detain me for what was an impulsive act," van der Sloot said. "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn't thinking."

Van der Sloot is being held in a high-security area of the Miguel Castro Castro prison where only two of 10 cells are occupied, and he has no contact with inmates in the general prison population.

He is under guard 24 hours a day, authorities have said.

The only other inmate in the area is alleged Colombian hit man Hugo Trujillo Ospina. The two have spent some time together in a common area where there is a television set and weights made of broomsticks and soda bottles, authorities said.

There is the possibility that van der Sloot will be integrated with other segments of the prison population.

CNN's Francesca Church, Mayra Cuevas and Jean Casarez contributed to this report.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 07:09:55 AM
I noticed somewhere that as Joran exited the hotel, an employee asked him to move the car.

Do we know where the car was parked? If it was parked illegally, or maybe in an loading/unloading area that most hotels have? I think that might have a bearing on why Stephany went to the hotel - not intending to be there long.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 21, 2010, 07:14:05 AM
Well, when the police in Peru were processing him, he very carefully read the paperwork, asked questions and signed it.....on videotape.

If I remember the confession, it asked about his lawyer and he said the lawyer was present.  The confession was signed by the lawyer and the translator, also.  I would bet it is all on videotape.

Perhaps Joran should have brushed up on Peruvian law, before he traveled.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 07:19:44 AM
Well, when the police in Peru were processing him, he very carefully read the paperwork, asked questions and signed it.....on videotape.

If I remember the confession, it asked about his lawyer and he said the lawyer was present.  The confession was signed by the lawyer and the translator, also.  I would bet it is all on videotape.

Perhaps Joran should have brushed up on Peruvian law, before he traveled.

wasn't it video taped as well? either way, I don't think it's needed...there's PLENTY of forensic and VIDEO evidence......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 07:25:37 AM
I think Joran "brushed up" on Peru law while he was on the lam.

His "confession" is a vat of lies incorporating mitigating factors for purpose of sentencing. For example, heat of the moment, under the influence of marajuana, something like "blackout" or not remembering certain things.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 07:28:24 AM
Well, when the police in Peru were processing him, he very carefully read the paperwork, asked questions and signed it.....on videotape.

If I remember the confession, it asked about his lawyer and he said the lawyer was present.  The confession was signed by the lawyer and the translator, also.  I would bet it is all on videotape.

Perhaps Joran should have brushed up on Peruvian law, before he traveled.

Plus Joran asked if he could read the whole confession again before signing it.
`Blind panic` my a**.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 07:29:56 AM
I am so glad Joran goes before the judge today, he's had about a week to fall back into his bait-and-switch act with Natalee's disappearance. He really thinks he can escape these charges too.

Thank you Aruba, aren't you proud of your boy that you taught never has to be accountable for anything he does.

He was tricked??? Were Natalee and Stephany tricked by him ??? Oh yes, I believe that they were and sick, evil people always accuse others of the things they are guilty of themselves.

The CNN article references the motive for Stephany's killing as "her winnings". That means they likely have videotape and witnesses that can back that up.

Spin Joran & Anita, spin......spin.......spin.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 07:32:17 AM
I think Joran "brushed up" on Peru law while he was on the lam.

His "confession" is a vat of lies incorporating mitigating factors for purpose of sentencing. For example, heat of the moment, under the influence of marajuana, something like "blackout" or not remembering certain things.

Yep, again I think the internet history on that laptop will be very informational and incriminating.

I expect he was searching all of the above msmarples.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 07:36:11 AM
And one more thing lol...........

IF Joran was truly running from Aruba to avoid going into a mental clinic, why did Anita and Renfro leave facebook messages wishing him love, happiness, and goodness?

Any sane and responsible mother or 'dear friend' would have left a message stating "please call and let's talk" or "we'll help you deal with this" or "the issues will remain until you address them".

They knew he was running from the extortion charges !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 07:41:37 AM
doesn't anyone check his FB and see Julia on his page????? Why would the news put this person on thier shows when she (Julia) is clearly a Joran protector?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 21, 2010, 07:41:39 AM
And one more thing lol...........

IF Joran was truly running from Aruba to avoid going into a mental clinic, why did Anita and Renfro leave facebook messages wishing him love, happiness, and goodness?

Any sane and responsible mother or 'dear friend' would have left a message stating "please call and let's talk" or "we'll help you deal with this" or "the issues will remain until you address them".

They knew he was running from the extortion charges !!!

yep.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 07:52:56 AM
And one more thing lol...........

IF Joran was truly running from Aruba to avoid going into a mental clinic, why did Anita and Renfro leave facebook messages wishing him love, happiness, and goodness?

Any sane and responsible mother or 'dear friend' would have left a message stating "please call and let's talk" or "we'll help you deal with this" or "the issues will remain until you address them".

They knew he was running from the extortion charges !!!

Exactly. 

Have a great day Monkeys!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 08:08:50 AM
And one more thing lol...........

IF Joran was truly running from Aruba to avoid going into a mental clinic, why did Anita and Renfro leave facebook messages wishing him love, happiness, and goodness?

Any sane and responsible mother or 'dear friend' would have left a message stating "please call and let's talk" or "we'll help you deal with this" or "the issues will remain until you address them".

They knew he was running from the extortion charges !!!


I still think at least Anita knew Joran's location and may have even assisted him financially in his bid to elude justice.  If these two sleazehags knew his location and failed to assist Interpol, I do hope they can be charged criminally in some manner.

I don't think Interpol will view obstruction of justice and aiding and abetting a fugitive from justice as perfectly "normal" as was done in Aruba.

And Anita knows she has done something illegal.  That's why she is afraid to rush to Peru--if they get Joran's computer records, perhaps there she will be and will be subject to arrest in Peru.  I do think this is why she has been a no show in Peru.  At least it is my fervent hope that she can be prosecuted for her part in enabling Joran to first flee extortion charges and maybe later worse ones in Peru.

Just my opinion but there are more than Joran who need to learn that obstruction of justice is universally recognized as a crime everywhere except on the corrupt flyspeck Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 08:15:34 AM
Joran is not dealing with Uncle Jan this time.  PLE will NOT appreciate his false claims that they "tricked" him so I hope he receives a change in attitude from his jailers immediately.

It's really pretty stupid of Joran to anger them when they are ther only thing standing between him and that mob or him and the general population. 

But then, without Paulus to think for him, we have seen how incredibly stupid Joran really is.

Garden variety killer made notorious by the corrupt system that refused to collect evidence against him and prosecute him.  Had justice prevailed, no one would have ever heard of Joran van der Sloot other than a blurb on the news once in a while during his trial.  He is in no way exceptional in his own right.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 21, 2010, 08:25:20 AM



Posted by Johan555 on the front page of SM just now:

Johan
Submitted on 2010/06/20 at 5:17pm

Blaming the mother is imo unfair and let’s face it Joran hasn’t been found guilty of any crime yet.

Let us keep up the presumption of innocence until someone is proven guilty please.


Sorry, but we are not under any obligation to do any such thing.  It's only the judiciary in a court of law that is required to have any presumption of anything.

The rest of us individuals are free to think whatever we please and voice that as well.

Go suck a lemon.

.

In Peru, a conviction is based on the preponderance of evidence, not "beyond reasonable doubt" as it is here. (And by 3 Judges, not a jury)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 08:35:19 AM
Blonde, and by only 2 of the 3 judges!

Yes, more than enough evidence to convict.

But Joran is going for some kind of rights violation to try to get the whole thing thrown out of court.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 08:36:57 AM
Drudge Report links to the story on Yahoo by posting "Van der SLUT retracts confession"

LOL.

Then at the article there are almost 3000 comments, almost every single one soundly condemning Joran.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 08:43:46 AM
Drudge Report links to the story on Yahoo by posting "Van der SLUT retracts confession"

LOL.

Then at the article there are almost 3000 comments, almost every single one soundly condemning Joran.




Ah, phooey!  They have not corrected it!

I liked it better the first way.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 08:45:08 AM
Drudge Report links to the story on Yahoo by posting "Van der SLUT retracts confession"

LOL.

Then at the article there are almost 3000 comments, almost every single one soundly condemning Joran.




Ah, phooey!  They have not corrected it!

I liked it better the first way.


Should be NOW corrected it.

I give up until after more coffee. . .



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: trimmonthelake on June 21, 2010, 09:02:46 AM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpps/news/joran-van-der-sloot-retracts-confession-to-flores-murder-dpgonc-20100621-fc_8229634
Joran van der Sloot Retracts 'Forced' Confession to Flores Murder

Updated: Monday, 21 Jun 2010, 7:41 AM CDT
Published : Monday, 21 Jun 2010, 7:41 AM CDT

(NewsCore) - Joran van der Sloot took back his confession to the brutal murder of Peruvian student Stephany Flores, saying police had "tricked" him with false promises of extradition to Aruba, Dutch daily newspaper De Telegraaf reported Monday.

The 21-year-old, also a prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of American tourist Natalee Holloway, described his "blind panic" when confronted with the extradition papers following his apprehension in Chile.

"I was scared during the interrogation and confused and wanted to leave," van der Sloot said from his cell in Lima's notorious Miguel Castro Castro prison. Previous reports indicated that van der Sloot had been petrified of being locked up in Peru. He told the Dutch newspaper his cell was infested with rats.

Van der Sloot did not give details on how exactly he was tricked, telling the paper, "How exactly this (trickery) happened, I will tell you later."
The Dutch national has changed his story regarding how Flores' severely beaten corpse came to be in his hotel room, telling authorities last week that she had been attacked by an armed robber.

Story shifting is not new for van der Sloot, who, in 2008 told Fox News anchor Greta van Susteren that he had sold 18-year-old Holloway to a man who traveled between Aruba and Venezuela. He later admitted to fabricating the story and returned to his former stance that he had nothing to do with Holloway's disappearance.

After confessing to murdering Flores after a night of poker playing, van der Sloot told authorities he would lead them to Holloway's body if they sent him back to Aruba. It is unclear if van der Sloot retracted this offer along with his confession.

Van der Sloot is due to face a Peruvian judge on charges of first degree murder Monday


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 09:10:02 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 21, 2010, 09:12:48 AM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpps/news/joran-van-der-sloot-retracts-confession-to-flores-murder-dpgonc-20100621-fc_8229634
Joran van der Sloot Retracts 'Forced' Confession to Flores Murder

Updated: Monday, 21 Jun 2010, 7:41 AM CDT
Published : Monday, 21 Jun 2010, 7:41 AM CDT

(NewsCore) - Joran van der Sloot took back his confession to the brutal murder of Peruvian student Stephany Flores, saying police had "tricked" him with false promises of extradition to Aruba, Dutch daily newspaper De Telegraaf reported Monday.

The 21-year-old, also a prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of American tourist Natalee Holloway, described his "blind panic" when confronted with the extradition papers following his apprehension in Chile.

"I was scared during the interrogation and confused and wanted to leave," van der Sloot said from his cell in Lima's notorious Miguel Castro Castro prison. Previous reports indicated that van der Sloot had been petrified of being locked up in Peru. He told the Dutch newspaper his cell was infested with rats.

Van der Sloot did not give details on how exactly he was tricked, telling the paper, "How exactly this (trickery) happened, I will tell you later."
The Dutch national has changed his story regarding how Flores' severely beaten corpse came to be in his hotel room, telling authorities last week that she had been attacked by an armed robber.

Story shifting is not new for van der Sloot, who, in 2008 told Fox News anchor Greta van Susteren that he had sold 18-year-old Holloway to a man who traveled between Aruba and Venezuela. He later admitted to fabricating the story and returned to his former stance that he had nothing to do with Holloway's disappearance.

After confessing to murdering Flores after a night of poker playing, van der Sloot told authorities he would lead them to Holloway's body if they sent him back to Aruba. It is unclear if van der Sloot retracted this offer along with his confession.

Van der Sloot is due to face a Peruvian judge on charges of first degree murder Monday

Joran, you have lied so many times, you are the boy who cried wolf, no one is listening anymore.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:20:03 AM
I noticed somewhere that as Joran exited the hotel, an employee asked him to move the car.

Do we know where the car was parked? If it was parked illegally, or maybe in an loading/unloading area that most hotels have? I think that might have a bearing on why Stephany went to the hotel - not intending to be there long.

I'll look for where that was mentioned.  I remember the hotel had an underground parking area.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:25:06 AM
I noticed somewhere that as Joran exited the hotel, an employee asked him to move the car.

Do we know where the car was parked? If it was parked illegally, or maybe in an loading/unloading area that most hotels have? I think that might have a bearing on why Stephany went to the hotel - not intending to be there long.

I'll look for

It's JORAN that mentioned having to move the car in his confession:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8133.msg1163235#new

"I got up thinking what to do. There was also blood on my shirt and on the bed. When I took my shirt and I pushed it hard on her face, until she was dead. Then I thought: now what? I left the hotel but the receptionist told me I had to move the car. I went back to room 309. I wanted to flee the hotel. I grabbed my two bags and I drove away with the car. I do not remember where. I have about five minutes driving around. Then I took a taxi to the international airport "Jorge Chavez". Then I thought that I better not by plane could go. I took a taxi to the other side of town, at a bus terminal."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 21, 2010, 09:26:08 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: no rose colored glasses on June 21, 2010, 09:40:09 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????
I'm just shaking my head over that, wonder what the parents said to the people at the hospital, I'm sure they lied about what really happened.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 21, 2010, 09:43:22 AM
..."Anita van der Sloot said Joran had been very affected by his father's death earlier this year and felt he was responsible. "

Dear Anita, how, if Joran and Paulus were not involved in Natalee's disappearance, would Joran have caused Paulus' death? If neither were involved, Joran would not feel guilt, nor would Paulus drop dead at 57 if he wasn't involved. Idiots, all of them.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 21, 2010, 09:44:19 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????
I'm just shaking my head over that, wonder what the parents said to the people at the hospital, I'm sure they lied about what really happened.

WTH?! How could a parent bring that monster back into their home with their two other sons after that? What the hell is wrong with those two? It clearly stated to Val and Sebastian, Joran is more important than you, just don't piss him off and you will be fine. How can she say with a straight face that he had nothing to do with Natalee? She thinks the rest of the world is just stupid and will believe her? Anita and Cindy Anthony are made of the same cloth. Hopefully that cloth has been burned.











Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:49:21 AM
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/498276/joran-van-der-sloot-declara-hoy-ante-juez-caso-penal-castro-castro

It's currently 8:49am in Peru

Through translator:

Joran van der Sloot declared today before the trial judge in the Castro Castro prison

The Netherlands citizen, confessed murderer in the death of Stephany Flores, give their testimony from 10 am before Judge Carlos Morales Cordova
Monday June 21, 2010 - 8:00 a.m.


Tell the truth. Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot will be questioned this morning about the brutal murder of young Stephany Flores happened the fateful morning of May 30 at a hotel in Miraflores.

According to judicial sources, the statement of confessed murderer of the college student is scheduled for 10 am at the Miguel Castro Castro prison, where he is being held.

Judge of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima, Carlos Morales Cordova will be responsible for clarifying the facts and determine responsibility for the crime of Stephany Flores, whose crime is configured with the crimes of homicide and simple theft.

As recalled, the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, 22 years old, remains in jail since last July 11 in a case that has gone around the world and is followed by the U.S. Justice Department that relates to disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba young.

DECLARE INVOLVED
Those testifying should also consist of brothers John Oswald and John Williams and Carlos Alberto Aparcana Pisconte Pretil Uribe, who are accused of having facilitated the transportation of Joran van der Sloot of Nasca to Tacna.

It is presumed that they were aware of the crime committed by the citizens Netherlands and although it helped him escape to Chile.

The statements of the alleged perpetrators, tried to subpoena restricted by the offense of failure to report, are scheduled for 23, 24 and June 25 from 2:30 pm

The holder of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima also had the realization of psychological and psychiatric expertise to the principal defendant, and the ratification of the autopsy and all the expert opinions made in the preliminary stage (fingerprint, forensic psychology, criminal roadworthiness, toxicological , etc.), so that experts explain the reason for their opinions.

Through a statement issued days ago, the Court of Lima reported that the reconstruction of the events will be scheduled in due course, depending on progress of the criminal proceedings.

Natalee HOLLOWAY CASE
The press release said if any evidence emerges referred to the death of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba, the court stated that it will evaluate and take necessary measures so that relevant authorities can achieve such evidence without affecting the process Peru or the fundamental rights of the accused.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 09:53:42 AM
I noticed somewhere that as Joran exited the hotel, an employee asked him to move the car.

Do we know where the car was parked? If it was parked illegally, or maybe in an loading/unloading area that most hotels have? I think that might have a bearing on why Stephany went to the hotel - not intending to be there long.

I'll look for

It's JORAN that mentioned having to move the car in his confession:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8133.msg1163235#new

"I got up thinking what to do. There was also blood on my shirt and on the bed. When I took my shirt and I pushed it hard on her face, until she was dead. Then I thought: now what? I left the hotel but the receptionist told me I had to move the car. I went back to room 309. I wanted to flee the hotel. I grabbed my two bags and I drove away with the car. I do not remember where. I have about five minutes driving around. Then I took a taxi to the international airport "Jorge Chavez". Then I thought that I better not by plane could go. I took a taxi to the other side of town, at a bus terminal."

Thanks klaas.

See, what I'm thinking is that if she just parked in the street in front of the hotel, or in maybe a short-term parking area (10 minute type of thing), it would be a clear indication that she didn't intend to spend any time there.

(And, too, maybe she didn't want to sit by herself in the car in front of a literally tacky hotel.)

Just one of those little details; don't know if it's anything significant.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 09:55:53 AM
Oh, gosh, I messed up the quote stack. Sorry klaas.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:57:38 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????


Were the authorities involved?  I suppose in Aruba there is no requirement to report obvious child abuse.

Anita did say Joran kicked his brothers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:58:14 AM
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/492100/2010/06/21/Joran-bekende-in-blinde-paniek.dhtml

Through translator:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranPanicConfession.jpg)

First 3 comments through translator:

Richard-Lelystad

It is all a game this scary man. For his victims, he does not feel anything, he just uses them for his dirty games. And then you see that some figures this man to hand over your head and / or pity him and / or believe in his innocence. These people have a terrible record on their heads.
Offensive? Inappropriate? Tell us
06/21/1910 3:22 p.m.

Moses

"In blind panic", as he also murdered his victims. Indeed he does everything in a panic. This man, the item of the 21st century, and goes like psychopath in history books. by its "cut" way of doing things, we spent his hog for a criminal conviction and convenience.
Offensive? Inappropriate? Tell us
06/21/1910 3:06 p.m.

Sand vendor

There is also something like pseudologia fantastica. The person tells a lie but logical sounding stories where he himself believes. If Joran is a pathological liar and he knows well that he is lying. But he must be crazy.
Offensive? Inappropriate? Tell us
06/21/1910 2:58 p.m.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:59:42 AM
msmarple - excellent point about the car and I believe you're on to something.  Hopefully LE will look into that aspect as well especially because it is in his confession.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Scatty on June 21, 2010, 10:03:35 AM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpps/news/joran-van-der-sloot-retracts-confession-to-flores-murder-dpgonc-20100621-fc_8229634
Joran van der Sloot Retracts 'Forced' Confession to Flores Murder

Updated: Monday, 21 Jun 2010, 7:41 AM CDT
Published : Monday, 21 Jun 2010, 7:41 AM CDT

(NewsCore) - Joran van der Sloot took back his confession to the brutal murder of Peruvian student Stephany Flores, saying police had "tricked" him with false promises of extradition to Aruba, Dutch daily newspaper De Telegraaf reported Monday.

The 21-year-old, also a prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of American tourist Natalee Holloway, described his "blind panic" when confronted with the extradition papers following his apprehension in Chile.

"I was scared during the interrogation and confused and wanted to leave," van der Sloot said from his cell in Lima's notorious Miguel Castro Castro prison. Previous reports indicated that van der Sloot had been petrified of being locked up in Peru. He told the Dutch newspaper his cell was infested with rats.

Van der Sloot did not give details on how exactly he was tricked, telling the paper, "How exactly this (trickery) happened, I will tell you later."The Dutch national has changed his story regarding how Flores' severely beaten corpse came to be in his hotel room, telling authorities last week that she had been attacked by an armed robber.

Story shifting is not new for van der Sloot, who, in 2008 told Fox News anchor Greta van Susteren that he had sold 18-year-old Holloway to a man who traveled between Aruba and Venezuela. He later admitted to fabricating the story and returned to his former stance that he had nothing to do with Holloway's disappearance.

After confessing to murdering Flores after a night of poker playing, van der Sloot told authorities he would lead them to Holloway's body if they sent him back to Aruba. It is unclear if van der Sloot retracted this offer along with his confession.

Van der Sloot is due to face a Peruvian judge on charges of first degree murder Monday

..As soon as I think of a REALLY, REALLY good story.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 10:06:15 AM
Deepak's comment about not leaving "him alone with the girl" coupled with Satish's questioning "how's the girl?" lead me to believe that Joran and his father are the perpetrators based on, "your own father..unbelievable."

It's a reasonable conclusion.

I can imagine a scenario where Joran is raping Natalee (or all 3) and she gets hurt.  Kalpoes get scared and leave.  Joran kills Natalee so she won't talk, much like he did to Stephany. 

Satish Kalpoes - Suspect Statement - June 13, 2005

My mother was then going to wake me up at 10.30 a.m. She though overslept and did not wake me up. I woke up around 12.00 noon. My brother woke up around 1 p.m. I asked him how Joran did get home during the night. He told me Joran had called him while walking in the direction to his home. He told me Joran told him he walked bare feet because he left the shoes at the beach. Then I asked my brother how the girl was doing. He told me Joran told him he left the girl behind at the beach.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=382.0



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:06:24 AM
Joran wants to confer with his attorney for help in coming up with a story of how he was tricked into confessing. 

He isn't smart enough to come up with one on his own.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 21, 2010, 10:09:14 AM
charlierat Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:41 am       

Go ahead and recant the confession. Toss it out altogether. All it means is that the Peruvian case will proceed on the physical and circumstantial evidence, which is rock solid in this case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 10:10:02 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????

Exactly-can you believe it?  Unreal.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 21, 2010, 10:17:59 AM
If you have facebook join this group "Anywhere But Aruba"
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Anywhere-But-Aruba-ABA/127813283909570?ref=ts


TruTv seems to be having continuing coverage in Peru this morning to cover the court appearance


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:22:43 AM
Roxi,
Thank you, yes they are still covering it.

I have seen coverage on all major networks, most with follow up stories.
Jinkasaurus on now explaining proceedings. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:26:13 AM
Stephany's brother seems to think she kept her winnings in her car.  He says he checked the bank and she had NOT deposited the money.  She didn't keep it at home because the parents would find it and her father told her not to gamble.  So he says that money is still missing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 10:28:23 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????

Nor for killing the dog, throwing a kid into a plate glass window, or a choler off a bridge ...

We learned early on, as everyone on the island already knew, that the kid had a short fuse.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:29:49 AM
I noticed somewhere that as Joran exited the hotel, an employee asked him to move the car.

Do we know where the car was parked? If it was parked illegally, or maybe in an loading/unloading area that most hotels have? I think that might have a bearing on why Stephany went to the hotel - not intending to be there long.

I'll look for

It's JORAN that mentioned having to move the car in his confession:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8133.msg1163235#new

"I got up thinking what to do. There was also blood on my shirt and on the bed. When I took my shirt and I pushed it hard on her face, until she was dead. Then I thought: now what? I left the hotel but the receptionist told me I had to move the car. I went back to room 309. I wanted to flee the hotel. I grabbed my two bags and I drove away with the car. I do not remember where. I have about five minutes driving around. Then I took a taxi to the international airport "Jorge Chavez". Then I thought that I better not by plane could go. I took a taxi to the other side of town, at a bus terminal."

Thanks klaas.

See, what I'm thinking is that if she just parked in the street in front of the hotel, or in maybe a short-term parking area (10 minute type of thing), it would be a clear indication that she didn't intend to spend any time there.

(And, too, maybe she didn't want to sit by herself in the car in front of a literally tacky hotel.)

Just one of those little details; don't know if it's anything significant.


IMO, that "tip" is good enough to send to PLE.  Maybe we need information on any tipline they may have.

Good to see you haven't lost your touch for detail, msmarple.

If not PLE, maybe stephany's brother or someone who could have them check it out.  It could be important.

And is something that with the mountain of evidence, may have not been considered.

JMO



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:33:44 AM
Maybe Cecelita can tell us if there is a tipline or place to give info to PLE.

Would be good to have in the event of any other insightful thoughts.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 21, 2010, 10:33:51 AM
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/498276/joran-van-der-sloot-declara-hoy-ante-juez-caso-penal-castro-castro

It's currently 8:49am in Peru

Through translator:

Joran van der Sloot declared today before the trial judge in the Castro Castro prison

The Netherlands citizen, confessed murderer in the death of Stephany Flores, give their testimony from 10 am before Judge Carlos Morales Cordova
Monday June 21, 2010 - 8:00 a.m.


Tell the truth. Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot will be questioned this morning about the brutal murder of young Stephany Flores happened the fateful morning of May 30 at a hotel in Miraflores.

According to judicial sources, the statement of confessed murderer of the college student is scheduled for 10 am at the Miguel Castro Castro prison, where he is being held.

Judge of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima, Carlos Morales Cordova will be responsible for clarifying the facts and determine responsibility for the crime of Stephany Flores, whose crime is configured with the crimes of homicide and simple theft.

As recalled, the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, 22 years old, remains in jail since last July 11 in a case that has gone around the world and is followed by the U.S. Justice Department that relates to disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba young.

DECLARE INVOLVED
Those testifying should also consist of brothers John Oswald and John Williams and Carlos Alberto Aparcana Pisconte Pretil Uribe, who are accused of having facilitated the transportation of Joran van der Sloot of Nasca to Tacna.

It is presumed that they were aware of the crime committed by the citizens Netherlands and although it helped him escape to Chile.

The statements of the alleged perpetrators, tried to subpoena restricted by the offense of failure to report, are scheduled for 23, 24 and June 25 from 2:30 pm

The holder of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima also had the realization of psychological and psychiatric expertise to the principal defendant, and the ratification of the autopsy and all the expert opinions made in the preliminary stage (fingerprint, forensic psychology, criminal roadworthiness, toxicological , etc.), so that experts explain the reason for their opinions.

Through a statement issued days ago, the Court of Lima reported that the reconstruction of the events will be scheduled in due course, depending on progress of the criminal proceedings.

Natalee HOLLOWAY CASE
The press release said if any evidence emerges referred to the death of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba, the court stated that it will evaluate and take necessary measures so that relevant authorities can achieve such evidence without affecting the process Peru or the fundamental rights of the accused.

Is the press allowed in the courtroom?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 21, 2010, 10:35:46 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????

Nor for killing the dog, throwing a kid into a plate glass window, or a choler off a bridge ...

We learned early on, as everyone on the island already knew, that the kid had a short fuse.



When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.

Do you have a link for this one TY


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:35:47 AM
Blah - no courtroom, the judge goes to Joran in his cell.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 10:36:04 AM
Maybe Joran's fellow prisoners should be afraid of him ... lol 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:37:41 AM
Blonde  - I think it was on Blogtalk Radio last nght

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 21, 2010, 10:37:59 AM
Blah - no courtroom, the judge goes to Joran in his cell.

Do you know if they make a transcript or video or anything?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 21, 2010, 10:38:53 AM
Blah - no courtroom, the judge goes to Joran in his cell.

Do you know if they make a transcript or video or anything?

one that will be available that is


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 10:42:47 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????

Nor for killing the dog, throwing a kid into a plate glass window, or a choler off a bridge ...

We learned early on, as everyone on the island already knew, that the kid had a short fuse.



When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.

Do you have a link for this one TY


I heard it on Steph Watt's online 'watts-up-with-this' blogtalk radio broadcast last night.  He was broadcasting from New York he said.

Try http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this  & see if you can find last night's broadcast. 

Tim Miller was supposed to be on but had to cancel as he was too tired from the trip and was emotionally drained due to the situation & Father's Day memories of his own.

In a minute, I'll see if I can find it for you, but have to leave for a bit right now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BooMonkey on June 21, 2010, 10:45:04 AM
Some notes I took last night while tuning in to Steph Watts' blogtalk radio:

1)  ABC paid Melody $150,000 for her diary,etc.

2)  Steph was able to talk with some of his friends who told him that Joran was known as a bully
     school-so much so, that once he had to get up & apologize to everyone at school.

3)  When Sebastian was seven years old, Joran beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be
     hospitalized and almost died.
And they didn't put him away for that???????????????????????????

Nor for killing the dog, throwing a kid into a plate glass window, or a choler off a bridge ...

We learned early on, as everyone on the island already knew, that the kid had a short fuse.

And yet, it is beyond the realm of possibility to them that he killed Natalee. Stephanie, oh yes, he could have done that, but not Natalee. Get real.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 21, 2010, 10:47:36 AM
SNIPPED>>>>>>
June 21, 2010 10:03 AM
LIMA - The Dutch suspect in the killing of a U.S. teenager on holiday in Aruba five years ago will go before a judge Monday to face questions about the killing of a young Peruvian woman in May.

Joran Van der Sloot, who confessed to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores, found beaten to death in his Lima hotel room, has been held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison since June 11 after confessing to the crime.

His Peruvian lawyer Maximo Altez has told local media that Van der Sloot plans to avoid responding to the judge's questions in a bid to invalidate the police investigation.

Altez said his client would not speak to authorities until the court accepts a writ of habeas corpus for him to challenge his detention. The document was filed a week ago and requested a new police interrogation in the presence of a Altez, a prosecutor and a translator.

Police say their previous interrogation already took place under these circumstances.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Dutch+suspect+Peru+Aruba+murders+face+questioning/3181180/story.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Curly on June 21, 2010, 10:49:22 AM
If Joran was really scheduled to go into a psychiatric unit in the Netherlands, I am sure it was more to be "stored away" someplace so they couldn't arrest him for the extortion plot.

If Anita insists that Joran did not kill Natalee than I am wondering if Paulus finished her off.  Joran may have called Papa Sloot after Natalee became injured, after being drugged, sexually assaulted, and possibly beat up.  Joran didn't know what to do because she wasn't dead but severely injured.  Paulus may have assessed the siutation and felt Natalee could recover with medical care. . . but would then be alive to tell what happened OR  she was so injured that Paulus felt she wasn't going to make it, so he took care of it for Joran.  If they had called medical personnel then Paulus knew Joran would go down for assault/drugging or whatever.

At first I believe Anita didn't know what happened to Natalee, but I really think she knows now.  I wonder how much the brothers know.

As far as I'm concerned, they should lock the entire family up until someone starts telling the truth.
Easy to blame a dead guy. He was a slime ball and more than likely a co-conspirator, but it was Joran's doing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:49:54 AM
Blah - no courtroom, the judge goes to Joran in his cell.

Do you know if they make a transcript or video or anything?

one that will be available that is

I have no idea.  I bet they do make a transcript or something available though.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MsVada on June 21, 2010, 10:50:58 AM
SNIPPED>>>>>>
June 21, 2010 10:03 AM
LIMA - The Dutch suspect in the killing of a U.S. teenager on holiday in Aruba five years ago will go before a judge Monday to face questions about the killing of a young Peruvian woman in May.

Joran Van der Sloot, who confessed to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores, found beaten to death in his Lima hotel room, has been held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison since June 11 after confessing to the crime.

His Peruvian lawyer Maximo Altez has told local media that Van der Sloot plans to avoid responding to the judge's questions in a bid to invalidate the police investigation.

Altez said his client would not speak to authorities until the court accepts a writ of habeas corpus for him to challenge his detention. The document was filed a week ago and requested a new police interrogation in the presence of a Altez, a prosecutor and a translator.

Police say their previous interrogation already took place under these circumstances.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Dutch+suspect+Peru+Aruba+murders+face+questioning/3181180/story.html


Sounds to me like they aren't going to let Joran's crying wolf bother them in the least.  They have what they need and they did it legally.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 10:55:50 AM
'I was duped into confessing,' says Joran van der Sloot
Monday 21 June 2010


Murder suspect Joran van der Sloot has told the Telegraaf newspaper he was duped into confessing to the murder of Peruvian woman Stephany Flores by promises that he would be extradited to the Netherlands.

'During the questioning, I was very scared and confused and wanted to get away,' Van der Sloot told reporters from the newspaper from Castro Castro prison in Lima.

Van der Sloot claims he was told that if he signed the papers he would be sent back to the Netherlands. 'In my blind panic I signed everything, but I did not know what [the documents] said,' he is quoted as saying.

Van der Sloot is due to appear in court on Monday but has said he will refuse to answer questions. 'My lawyer is focusing on all the procedural errors which have been made. I should not even be here,' he told the paper.

The Dutchman has also twice been arrested and released in connection with the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway on Aruba five years ago.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/i_was_duped_into_confessing_sa.php


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:58:46 AM
Posted on the front page of SM:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1005%2FDigitaal%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F492270%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2FMartel-Joran-tot-een-bekentenis.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en

(http://s.myniceprofile.com/myspacepic/478/47831.gif)

Direct link to the game:


http://www.roundgames.com/game/Torture+Joran


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 11:00:45 AM
BooMonkey - Had he killed Stephany (or someone else) in Aruba, another coverup would ensue. It's all about the tourism. I think Aruba is just relieved that this happened somewhere else.

Anna - Re. where Stephany parked her car - I'm sure the police know exactly where the car was parked (probably on camera, lol). We would need to know whether it was "overdue" in its parking place. And whether someone at the hotel actually told Joran to move the car.

I also want to reiterate something I posted earlier, re. Joran's mental state. I think Anita and Paulus knew he had problems long before Natalee, and certainly after Natalee. But commiting him (after Natalee) could have been perceived as an admission of his guilt. Maybe they felt boxed in - a Catch 22. It was not only about their fair-haired boy, but the island's economy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 11:03:30 AM
Maybe Joran's fellow prisoners should be afraid of him ... lol 

Joran is bigger than most of them and apparently knows how to throw a punch. Up to a point, he can take care of himself. (Of course others could gang up on him, or have weapons that he doesn't ... )


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 11:12:57 AM
Klaas, that game is just  hilarious.  There is really no way to lose, either.

msmarple--I suppose you are right that PLE is on top of the car but sometimes it's easier for us to see small details from a distance as we are not dealing with all the bulk of information they have.

But in any event, it was a darned good observation on your part and would for prove Stephany had no intention of spending any time in that room.  Certainly not playing online poker, drinking coffee or anything else.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 21, 2010, 11:14:33 AM
Hi Monkeys....

This morning's recant is just so typical of Joran The Manipulator.  Am SO hoping the cops did everything by the Peruvian book and his claims are baseless.  And...even if they aren't, hoping that the wealth of physical, video, circumstantial, DNA evidence is enough to keep him in jail for a long, long time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 11:16:49 AM
Anna - Yes, that's exactly what I mean re. Stephany not planning to be there long at all. (If nothing else, it would narrow our speculation about why she went with him to his room. I'm leaning toward repayment of a gambling loan. Not much else comes to mind.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 11:18:04 AM
Good Morning Monkeys,
I am reading the comments in EL COMERCIO and people say the monter will create another story about how he killed Stephany. I hope that he is found with small robery and be sent to lurigancho and then he will be over, bye bye, chau!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 11:19:36 AM
The court proceedings will be in Spanish and you know how fast they talk.  Also so will any transcripts. 

We will need everything translated.

TRUTV says he is in the courtroom (within the prison) now.  Also just said no cameras allowed inside.

Flores family says they have the right to be there but have declined and their lawyer will be paying close attention.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 11:20:05 AM
STEPHANY FLORES CASE

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - De Telegraaf - June 19th 2010

The actual interview:

Target

..... It then became clear that Joran had been a target for an FBI-operation in Aruba. "I thought it was strange that the attorney for the Holloways was on the island. I now believe that Joran might have done something to Stephany in Peru. Maybe an act of rage? I don't know. I'm very saddened that that businessman Flores lost his daughter, and I my son. That's the way it feels like." .....



NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF DUTCH SUSPECT: It's extremely tough. He's in custody now for 13, 14 days, I think. I have lost count. And I love my child. I believe in him 200 percent. And it's just like a big nightmare. We don't know how to deal with it because you can't deal with it. We think about the family a lot because their life is a nightmare, too, but our life is a nightmare, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 11:26:00 AM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 11:26:00 AM
It will be interesting to compare how Peru regards Joran's shifting stories and silent spells. (Wonder if he will do that hands-over-ears "la-la-la" thing? Hope he has outgrown that one ...)

Anyway, I have a feeling these things will make it much worse for him. I don't think the judge(s) in Peru will have a bit of patience with those antics. Also, I don't think lying will be acceptable (as it was, even expected, in Aruba).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 11:28:44 AM
STEPHANY FLORES CASE

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - De Telegraaf - June 19th 2010

The actual interview:

Target

..... It then became clear that Joran had been a target for an FBI-operation in Aruba. "I thought it was strange that the attorney for the Holloways was on the island. I now believe that Joran might have done something to Stephany in Peru. Maybe an act of rage? I don't know. I'm very saddened that that businessman Flores lost his daughter, and I my son. That's the way it feels like." .....



NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF DUTCH SUSPECT: It's extremely tough. He's in custody now for 13, 14 days, I think. I have lost count. And I love my child. I believe in him 200 percent. And it's just like a big nightmare. We don't know how to deal with it because you can't deal with it. We think about the family a lot because their life is a nightmare, too, but our life is a nightmare, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

Janet - Excellent! (Sorta spooky, too.) (No offense to OUR Spooky.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 11:29:22 AM
I just caught up.  Thanks to all for updates, articles, quotes and insights.

Is there a transcript or translation to Joran interview with the Dutch publication?

Thanks

Janet
8:30 AM PT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 11:31:19 AM
TruTV interviewing a Peruvian attorney.  She says Joran can remain silent but is usually considered better if they cooperate.  Can get reduction in sentence.  Like from 25-30 years to 20 years.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 21, 2010, 11:32:20 AM
Anna - Yes, that's exactly what I mean re. Stephany not planning to be there long at all. (If nothing else, it would narrow our speculation about why she went with him to his room. I'm leaning toward repayment of a gambling loan. Not much else comes to mind.)

Exactly! That is what I have thought all along. Joran wanted her money and I think he was going to rape her but she was on her period. jmo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 11:33:46 AM
I see that no cameras are allowed in the courtroom, but what about members of the press? Sorry if someone has posted this, I'm reading on the fly here ...

I know Peru has a "transparency" thing (similar to Florida's Sunshine Law).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 11:34:21 AM
STEPHANY FLORES CASE

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - De Telegraaf - June 19th 2010

The actual interview:

Target

..... It then became clear that Joran had been a target for an FBI-operation in Aruba. "I thought it was strange that the attorney for the Holloways was on the island. I now believe that Joran might have done something to Stephany in Peru. Maybe an act of rage? I don't know. I'm very saddened that that businessman Flores lost his daughter, and I my son. That's the way it feels like." .....



NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF DUTCH SUSPECT: It's extremely tough. He's in custody now for 13, 14 days, I think. I have lost count. And I love my child. I believe in him 200 percent. And it's just like a big nightmare. We don't know how to deal with it because you can't deal with it. We think about the family a lot because their life is a nightmare, too, but our life is a nightmare, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

Janet - Excellent! (Sorta spooky, too.) (No offense to OUR Spooky.)

The inability of both Anita and Joran to genuinely empathize with the victim's family brings to mind the saying "The apple does not fall from the tree."

Janet

 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 11:41:11 AM
On JVM tonight:

TJ Ward, the lead investigator in the Natalee Holloway.
Joran Van Der Sloot retracts murder confession. "I was tricked into a confession and I will explain later how it happened".

 
See TJ live tonight, June 21, 2010 at 7p.m on Issues with Jane Velez Mitchell HLN.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 11:41:35 AM
Good morning

Peru lawyer on trutv just said Judge will advise jvds his right to remain silent in today's hearing.

I thought he had to speak. wish I had taped it.

I am confused.

she also talked about sentence 20 to 35 yrs and could get 10 yrs off if he tells the truth about the murder. I would think if he tells the truth they would add time, dunno maybe justice is served within the prison walls. Yep I bet that's how it works. Goodie, goodie..

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 11:44:05 AM
Good morning

Peru lawyer on trutv just said Judge will advise jvds his right to remain silent in today's hearing.

I thought he had to speak. wish I had taped it.

I am confused.

she also talked about sentence 20 to 35 yrs and could get 10 yrs off if he tells the truth about the murder. I would think if he tells the truth they would add time, dunno maybe justice is served within the prison walls. Yep I bet that's how it works. Goodie, goodie..

OS

Doesn't matter if Joran gets 10-20-30yrs, he won't last that long. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 11:45:50 AM
TruTV interviewing a Peruvian attorney.  She says Joran can remain silent but is usually considered better if they cooperate.  Can get reduction in sentence.  Like from 25-30 years to 20 years.

Hi Anna

Thanks, I missed some of it being out of the room..

I think no matter what he does, put a fork in him, he's done..

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 11:52:09 AM
Good morning

Peru lawyer on trutv just said Judge will advise jvds his right to remain silent in today's hearing.

I thought he had to speak. wish I had taped it.

I am confused.

she also talked about sentence 20 to 35 yrs and could get 10 yrs off if he tells the truth about the murder. I would think if he tells the truth they would add time, dunno maybe justice is served within the prison walls. Yep I bet that's how it works. Goodie, goodie..

OS

Doesn't matter if Joran gets 10-20-30yrs, he won't last that long. 

Hi Klaas,

I agree, I just don't want to see Arlene (think that's her name) on TV telling us we just don't understand Peruivan law...grrrrrrrrrrrr

O/T I am now a ggm of a beautiful little girl.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 11:58:18 AM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO
Hi Anna,
I think they have everything in cameras. Do we know where did she park? I believe the garage was in the basement and there are temporary parking spaces in front the hostel. (to find a parking space at that location is very difficult because there is a very busy and important emergency hospital Casimiro Ulloa around there and a lot of doctors offices and restaurants)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 21, 2010, 11:58:59 AM
Drudge Report links to the story on Yahoo by posting "Van der SLUT retracts confession"

LOL.

Then at the article there are almost 3000 comments, almost every single one soundly condemning Joran.




Ah, phooey!  They have not corrected it!

I liked it better the first way.

its back to Van Der Slut again


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 11:59:19 AM
OS - Maybe I'll be the first to congratulate you! Have boat-loads of fun.

I don't think Peruvian law will be nearly as confusing as what happens in Aruba. (And may it STAY in Aruba.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Mere on June 21, 2010, 11:59:30 AM
Still sitting on a branch...with the other hundred or so monkeys.

Want to thank all of you who have kept us up-to-date.

I almost choked when I saw that he had retracted his confession.  I just wondered why it had taken so long for someone to get to him and
tell him that he should do this. 

The thought of him in a Peruvian prison is more justice than I ever thought anyone would see.

(Txmom...I will drive by when the bike comes back...lol)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 12:01:59 PM
O/T not fair, I'm not even a GM yet and I should be!  Lord knows I'm old enough, LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 12:02:26 PM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO
Hi Anna,
I think they have everything in cameras. Do we know where did she park? I believe the garage was in the basement and there are temporary parking spaces in front the hostel. (to find a parking space at that location is very difficult because there is a very busy and important emergency hospital Casimiro Ulloa around there and a lot of doctors offices and restaurants)

We're talking about that fact that Joran stated that a hotel employee told him he had to move the car. Which suggests maybe Stephany parked in one of those temporary spaces. Which further suggests that maybe Stephany had no intention of being there long. No online poker, no breakfast, for example.

Just a thought - might narrow down speculation as to WHY she went with him into the hotel.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 12:03:22 PM
THE STEPHANY FLORES CASE

De Telegraaf Interview - June, 2010


In the interview Joran Van der Sloot claims that he was scared and confused during his interrogation and that he wanted to leave. "If you sign these papers you will be extradited to the Netherlands..." Van der Sloot said he was told by Peruvian authorities. "In my blind panic I signed everything, but I didn't know what it all said."

"I was tricked into it," said Van der Sloot about the killing of Stephany Flores.

"How exactly all this happened, I will tell you later."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5507588/joran_van_der_sloot_to_dutch_reporter.html


THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

A Current Affair Interview - September, 2005


Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that

http://scrux.com/natalee/joranunedited.htm



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Scatty on June 21, 2010, 12:04:33 PM
Posted on the front page of SM:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1005%2FDigitaal%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F492270%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2FMartel-Joran-tot-een-bekentenis.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en

(http://s.myniceprofile.com/myspacepic/478/47831.gif)

Direct link to the game:


http://www.roundgames.com/game/Torture+Joran

That was FUN!!! He confessed on Max power! Ah the Joy!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 12:06:23 PM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO
Hi Anna,
I think they have everything in cameras. Do we know where did she park? I believe the garage was in the basement and there are temporary parking spaces in front the hostel. (to find a parking space at that location is very difficult because there is a very busy and important emergency hospital Casimiro Ulloa around there and a lot of doctors offices and restaurants)

We're talking about that fact that Joran stated that a hotel employee told him he had to move the car. Which suggests maybe Stephany parked in one of those temporary spaces. Which further suggests that maybe Stephany had no intention of being there long. No online poker, no breakfast, for example.

Just a thought - might narrow down speculation as to WHY she went with him into the hotel.
The temporary parking may be in front to the hotel...I dont think that stephany parked there but if she did it may be she was thinking to stay there no more than 5 minutes because in Peru girls dont park in front of those kind of hotels (friends could recognized her car)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 12:06:26 PM
Janet - You are on one of your rolls today.

He'll tell us later, like fudge he will. de ja vue all over again. Fortunately, Peru doesn't need any convulated, self-serving information from him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 21, 2010, 12:07:27 PM
Posted on the front page of SM:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1005%2FDigitaal%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F492270%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2FMartel-Joran-tot-een-bekentenis.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en

(http://s.myniceprofile.com/myspacepic/478/47831.gif)

Direct link to the game:


http://www.roundgames.com/game/Torture+Joran

I loved that!  I killed him!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 12:08:58 PM
cecilita - But then why would someone at the hotel tell Joran to move the car?

(But we don't know for a fact that that's true. Joran said that someone told him to move the car, and we know he lies.)

Yes, I'm sure Stephany wouldn't have wanted to sit alone in the car in front of that hotel.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 21, 2010, 12:09:06 PM
How many times last week did we hear that he cannot refuse to speak at this meeting today, now everything says he does not have to speak :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 12:20:17 PM
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/498346/van-der-sloot-cambio-version-ahora-dice-que-se-inculpo-crimen-stephany-flores-cambio-extradicion

Through translator:

Van der Sloot version changed: now he says he is indicted for the crime of Stephany Flores in exchange for extradition

In an interview on "De Telegraaf", a confessed murderer of the girl said it signed statement without reading the content. His mother found a few days ago that his son "is sick in the head"
Monday June 21, 2010 - 10:16 a.m.


(Elcomercio.pe, EFE). This morning, the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, should testify before the court for the murder of Stephany Flores.

As a preview of what I can say, today met part of the interview that gave the Dutch newspaper "De Telegraaf", which ensures that the Peruvian police promised extradition to the Netherlands if he signed a statement accepting his authorship this crime.

According to Van der Sloot, the Peruvian police assured him: "If you sign these papers, extradite you to Holland."

"Dam blind panic, I signed everything, but did not know what those papers say," he said.

"I laid an ambush," said the Dutchman also on his guilty plea and told that during the interrogation "was very scared, I was confused and wanted to leave.

It also complained that in his cell of the Miguel Castro rats climb down the drain the toilet.

Remember that the head of the Homicide Division of the National Police, PNP Colonel Miguel Canlla Ore, has denied that the Dutchman would be pressed to sign a confession. He said that in all criminal attended a prosecutor, his lawyer and the translator appointed by the Netherlands Embassy.

PSYCHIATRIC TREATMENT
In another interview on "De Telegraaf", his mother, Anita van der Sloot, said his son was about to be admitted to a psychiatric clinic before leaving Peru.

A Dutchman's former girlfriend, Melody Granadillo, also featured in the ABC interview that Joran could lie with ease and without apparent reason.

It is known that during the process that was followed by the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, in 2005, he changed his version several times.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 12:25:21 PM
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/498346/van-der-sloot-cambio-version-ahora-dice-que-se-inculpo-crimen-stephany-flores-cambio-extradicion

Through translator:

Van der Sloot version changed: now he says he is indicted for the crime of Stephany Flores in exchange for extradition

In an interview on "De Telegraaf", a confessed murderer of the girl said it signed statement without reading the content. His mother found a few days ago that his son "is sick in the head"
Monday June 21, 2010 - 10:16 a.m.


(Elcomercio.pe, EFE). This morning, the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, should testify before the court for the murder of Stephany Flores.

As a preview of what I can say, today met part of the interview that gave the Dutch newspaper "De Telegraaf", which ensures that the Peruvian police promised extradition to the Netherlands if he signed a statement accepting his authorship this crime.

According to Van der Sloot, the Peruvian police assured him: "If you sign these papers, extradite you to Holland."

"Dam blind panic, I signed everything, but did not know what those papers say," he said.

"I laid an ambush," said the Dutchman also on his guilty plea and told that during the interrogation "was very scared, I was confused and wanted to leave.

It also complained that in his cell of the Miguel Castro rats climb down the drain the toilet.

Remember that the head of the Homicide Division of the National Police, PNP Colonel Miguel Canlla Ore, has denied that the Dutchman would be pressed to sign a confession. He said that in all criminal attended a prosecutor, his lawyer and the translator appointed by the Netherlands Embassy.

PSYCHIATRIC TREATMENT
In another interview on "De Telegraaf", his mother, Anita van der Sloot, said his son was about to be admitted to a psychiatric clinic before leaving Peru.

A Dutchman's former girlfriend, Melody Granadillo, also featured in the ABC interview that Joran could lie with ease and without apparent reason.

It is known that during the process that was followed by the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, in 2005, he changed his version several times.
Thnk you Klassed,
Peruvians will go with his first version.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 12:27:07 PM
I think for lying Joran should be put in the general population or transferred to Lurigancho.  He is trying to make it appear the Peruvian police did something wrong so why should they continue to give him the royal treatment?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 12:29:05 PM
Joran van der Sloot Says He Was Tricked into Murder Confession
Accused Killer Shares Cell With Murderer, Corrupt General and Rats
 
By JOHN QUINONES and MARK MOONEY
June 21, 2010


Joran van der Sloot is now claiming that he was tricked into confessing that he killed Peruvian Stephany Flores and says that he will "explain later" what really happened.

The Dutch playboy also complained that he has to share his prison cellblock with a Colombian murderer, a corrupt Peruvian general and rats that creep into his cell through the toilet at night.

 Van der Sloot, 22, is accused of murdering Flores and is the prime suspect in the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway  in Aruba five years ago.

His claim of being fooled into confessing to murder came one day after his mother, Anita van der Sloot, conceded that her son "could have done something" to Flores and that she could no longer hug him.

Her son, however, is now insisting that he didn't realize he was signing a murder confession, which was written in Spanish. Van der Sloot speaks some Spanish.

"During the interrogations I was very frightened and confused, and I wanted to leave," van der Sloot told the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf in the notorious Castro Castro jail in Lima, Peru.

"'If you sign these papers you will be extradited to the Netherlands,' they were telling me all the time. In my blind panic I then signed everything, but I did not even know what was written down," he told the newspaper.

When asked about the murder of Flores, van der Sloot replied, "I have been framed. What happened exactly, I will explain later."

In the alleged confession, van der Sloot is quoted as saying he met Flores at a Lima casino and they were playing poker in his room when an email popped up on his computer linking him to the Holloway case.

He claims Flores became upset and struck him. Enraged, van der Sloot allegedly smashed her in the nose with his elbow. Blood gushed out and she nearly fainted from the blow, the confession states. He then grabbed her by the throat and banged her head against the wall, the confession says. He finally used his shirt to smother her, according to the reputed confession.

As ABC News reported at the time of his arrest, van der Sloot appeared confused before signing some police documents. He even asked his interrogatiors, "This only says I understand what my rights are, correct?"

More:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/International/joran-van-der-sloot-tricked-signing-murder-confession/story?id=10968585

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/International/joran-van-der-sloot-tricked-signing-murder-confession/story?id=10968585&page=2

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/International/joran-van-der-sloot-tricked-signing-murder-confession/story?id=10968585&page=3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 12:30:09 PM
Nut - Someone here posted that he doesn't HAVE to speak, but it goes better for him if he does. May in Peru "remaining silent" is interpreted as at least a shade of guilt.

Re. Retracting Confession - I maintain that it was a pack of lies anyway, and the police/judge already know it.

Let's see, the confession contains lies, and he's retracting it. Will be interesting to see what the judge thinks about that.

If he does NOT offer up a confession - one that matches the evidence - isn't that worse in terms of sentencing?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Curly on June 21, 2010, 12:30:20 PM
They should just have someone beat the location of Natalee out of him, throw him in gen pop. and be done with it.
Stick his mother in there with him, too.
It's over, Joran. No one believes a word you say.
O, you misunderstood that for your murder confession regarding Stephany you'd be sent to the NL? Too bad, too sad. We don't believe you and we don't care. Enjoy your rats. Maybe they'll slowly chew you to death in the night. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 12:33:05 PM
I just caught up.  Thanks to all for updates, articles, quotes and insights.

Is there a transcript or translation to Joran interview with the Dutch publication?

Thanks

Janet
8:30 AM PT


Hi Janet, there's wasn't much more in the article than what was already online, except this:

Just got De Telegraaf (they were giving them away for free at the store!) and there's really not much more in the article than there is already posted online.

Just that he said he's come to terms with the fact that he's going to be inside for a long time. His lawyer said that it can take up to at least two years until his trial starts. And until that time he won't speak about the case itself.

And get a load of this:
"My lawyer is now focusing on the procedural errors that have been made. So there was really no need for me to be here."


More in tomorrow's paper!!

Plus a cliffhanger that there will be a more extensive report in tomorrow's newspaper.
I'll be buying it on my way to work and see what it has to say.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 12:36:48 PM
Casey Anthony is facing the death penalty.  She took one life.  Joran has taken two and is only facing years in a bad prison.  I am ready for him to just shut up.

Lots of prisons even in this country have rodents.  And we have the death penalty.  He is getting more of a break already than he deserves.

Just saying. . . .


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 12:37:34 PM
OS - Maybe I'll be the first to congratulate you! Have boat-loads of fun.

I don't think Peruvian law will be nearly as confusing as what happens in Aruba. (And may it STAY in Aruba.)

TY

I think Peru has crossed their T's and dotted their I's, unlike the coverup in Aruba. Peru wants justice for a murdered child unlike Aruba, they have no regard for human like, makes me sick.

I am prepared I think for the onslaught of jvds mouthpieces like joet, it will get deep we will need hip boots but this time there will be justice.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 12:38:07 PM
cecilita - But then why would someone at the hotel tell Joran to move the car?

(But we don't know for a fact that that's true. Joran said that someone told him to move the car, and we know he lies.)

Yes, I'm sure Stephany wouldn't have wanted to sit alone in the car in front of that hotel.
We dont know what was said in the lobby between the hotel employees, the monster and Stephany. We saw Stephany sitting far away from the monster maybe she wanted to wait for him in the lobby and in the last second the monster told her something like "hey lets go" and she went with him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 12:44:06 PM
I just caught up.  Thanks to all for updates, articles, quotes and insights.

Is there a transcript or translation to Joran interview with the Dutch publication?

Thanks

Janet
8:30 AM PT


Hi Janet, there's wasn't much more in the article than what was already online, except this:

Just got De Telegraaf (they were giving them away for free at the store!) and there's really not much more in the article than there is already posted online.

Just that he said he's come to terms with the fact that he's going to be inside for a long time. His lawyer said that it can take up to at least two years until his trial starts. And until that time he won't speak about the case itself.

And get a load of this:
"My lawyer is now focusing on the procedural errors that have been made. So there was really no need for me to be here."


More in tomorrow's paper!!

Plus a cliffhanger that there will be a more extensive report in tomorrow's newspaper.
I'll be buying it on my way to work and see what it has to say.

Thank Jo-An

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 12:47:25 PM
Joran is delusional because I do think he is going to try to play this bit about being tricked for all it's worth and then some--trying to make it into some rights violation thing.  I hope the Peruvians will be thick-skinned in that regard and not try to prove his rights are not violated as he will always scream that.

I think Joran really thinks he can end up in NL because of being tricked or that is his hope.  Maybe the judge can explain to him that the most he can hope for is the confession being thrown out and it's not really even needed as the forensics are enough to convict him ten times over.

Don't let him have ANY hope whatsoever of getting out of this as he has been on free feet for five years too long already.  Joran needs to pay and pay big time for both deaths he has caused.  Special treatment is not where it's at .



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 12:49:27 PM
Good morning

Peru lawyer on trutv just said Judge will advise jvds his right to remain silent in today's hearing.

I thought he had to speak. wish I had taped it.

I am confused.


she also talked about sentence 20 to 35 yrs and could get 10 yrs off if he tells the truth about the murder. I would think if he tells the truth they would add time, dunno maybe justice is served within the prison walls. Yep I bet that's how it works. Goodie, goodie..

OS

Doesn't matter if Joran gets 10-20-30yrs, he won't last that long. 

Considering Joran van der Sloots inability to control his anger/rage ... considering his stature and ...  considering he is a two time murderer ... I believe the other inmates had better be watching their backs.  In my opinion ... Joran van der Sloot is not at risk.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 12:49:55 PM
cecilita - I'm sorry, maybe we should start at the beginning with this business of moving the car.

I noticed somewhere that as Joran exited the hotel, an employee asked him to move the car.

Do we know where the car was parked? If it was parked illegally, or maybe in an loading/unloading area that most hotels have? I think that might have a bearing on why Stephany went to the hotel - not intending to be there long.

I'll look for

It's JORAN that mentioned having to move the car in his confession:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8133.msg1163235#new

"I got up thinking what to do. There was also blood on my shirt and on the bed. When I took my shirt and I pushed it hard on her face, until she was dead. Then I thought: now what? I left the hotel but the receptionist told me I had to move the car. I went back to room 309. I wanted to flee the hotel. I grabbed my two bags and I drove away with the car. I do not remember where. I have about five minutes driving around. Then I took a taxi to the international airport "Jorge Chavez". Then I thought that I better not by plane could go. I took a taxi to the other side of town, at a bus terminal."

So my thinking is that if the hotel wanted Joran to move the car (this would be after Stephany was dead), maybe it was parked in a short-term parking space. Which suggests that Stephany had no intention of staying long. No online poker, plan for breakfast, etc.

(Sorry to keep at this, but I would REALLY like to know where the car was parked. And I'll bet it's on camera.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 12:50:07 PM
John van den Heuvel on tv right now (RTL Boulevard).
He's the crime reporter who interviewed both Anita and Joran last week.
He said he already contacted Anita a couple of weeks ago and she agreed to do an interview last week.
Then he asked her if she could arrange an interview with Joran.
I didn't hear the whole thing, because I was on the phone but...

...COMING UP: INTERVIEW WITH ANITA ON TV!!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:01:51 PM
The Dutch game is on..Melody gains 150k and Anita is up next.
Stay tuned .. The Dutch are professionals..



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:04:56 PM
The Dutch game is on..Melody gains 150k and Anita is up next.
Stay tuned .. The Dutch are professionals..



They can make all the money they can stomach over the murders of Natalee and Stephany but I don't think that will help Joran out of Peruvian jail. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:07:11 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extraditions..
He is out in 5


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 21, 2010, 01:11:14 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extraditions..
He is out in 5
Actually, they are saying 35 years and perhaps "Life" since it involved robbery.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:13:54 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extraditions..
He is out in 5

He'll be dead in 1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:14:56 PM
Maybe he will be moved to a better prison in another nation.

I am waiting for the part where he can't receive a fair trial because of the Media.

Peru has never received such political pressure before..
The disinformation teams are hard at work from various angles.
They learned well from the Germans years ago..
They played it well in Aruba in 2005 and then for George.. Now one game for Peru.

Stephanie's father is the only hope in stopping the onslaught of bullcrap which is being slung by a professional team.
   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 01:15:16 PM
O/T not fair, I'm not even a GM yet and I should be!  Lord knows I'm old enough, LOL

Awww, not fair, you will be a wonderful grandmother, hope it happens soon for ya.

I will take this to musings, might post a pic of her later, will need you to remove it for me.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:15:59 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extraditions..
He is out in 5
Actually, they are saying 35 years and perhaps "Life" since it involved robbery.

THAT would be acceptable in my book.
I am not sure what will really happen.
I hope you are correct.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:17:35 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extradition's..
He is out in 5

He'll be dead in 1

He is too famous..No famous people die in South American prisons..
He will be idolized by other prisoners.
He is Elite ..
jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 21, 2010, 01:19:27 PM
Maybe he will be moved to a better prison in another nation.

I am waiting for the part where he can't receive a fair trial because of the Media.

Peru has never received such political pressure before..
The disinformation teams are hard at work from various angles.
They learned well from the Germans years ago..
They played it well in Aruba in 2005 and then for George.. Now one game for Peru.

Stephanie's father is the only hope in stopping the onslaught of bullcrap which is being slung by a professional team.
   
They have NO jury trials - thus the media does not matter. Public opinion is not irrelevant - no jury pools to taint. I am not worried in the least that Peru is going to cave.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 21, 2010, 01:20:42 PM
Maybe he will be moved to a better prison in another nation.

I am waiting for the part where he can't receive a fair trial because of the Media.

Peru has never received such political pressure before..
The disinformation teams are hard at work from various angles.
They learned well from the Germans years ago..
They played it well in Aruba in 2005 and then for George.. Now one game for Peru.

Stephanie's father is the only hope in stopping the onslaught of bullcrap which is being slung by a professional team.
   
They have NO jury trials - thus the media does not matter. Public opinion is not irrelevant - no jury pools to taint. I am not worried in the least that Peru is going to cave.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 21, 2010, 01:21:17 PM
Maybe he will be moved to a better prison in another nation.

I am waiting for the part where he can't receive a fair trial because of the Media.

Peru has never received such political pressure before..
The disinformation teams are hard at work from various angles.
They learned well from the Germans years ago..
They played it well in Aruba in 2005 and then for George.. Now one game for Peru.

Stephanie's father is the only hope in stopping the onslaught of bullcrap which is being slung by a professional team.
   
They have NO jury trials - thus the media doesnot matter. Public opinion is not irrelevant - no jury pools to taint. I am not worried in the least that Peru is going to cave.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:23:10 PM
wreck, your keyboard fingers are going wild .. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 01:23:44 PM
Still sitting on a branch...with the other hundred or so monkeys.

Want to thank all of you who have kept us up-to-date.

I almost choked when I saw that he had retracted his confession.  I just wondered why it had taken so long for someone to get to him and
tell him that he should do this. 

The thought of him in a Peruvian prison is more justice than I ever thought anyone would see.

(Txmom...I will drive by when the bike comes back...lol)

Hi Mere,

Nice to see you, long time..

Amazing isn't it and on the 5th anniv. of Natalee's disappearance. Mind blowing. I do wonder how many others there are we don't know about yet.

I read a lot into his demeanor and eyes as he walked away from the hotel desk after getting his key to room, evil eyes.

He had a plan imo, and he carried it out.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 21, 2010, 01:23:49 PM
wreck, your keyboard fingers are going wild .. 

Geesh!!!! ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 01:25:30 PM
How many times last week did we hear that he cannot refuse to speak at this meeting today, now everything says he does not have to speak :roll:

Hi Nut

That's what confused me, guess we will just have to wait and see.

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:26:41 PM
wreck, your keyboard fingers are going wild .. 

Geesh!!!! ;)

LOL.. :}


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 01:29:54 PM
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=105539426161183&ref=ts
The administrator is Stephany cousin.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 01:33:12 PM
Interview with Anita on RTL television - RTL Boulevard:

Anita: "Joran was a normal child. Especially the first years of his life he was a great child, no other than other children. He talked a lot with Paul, made a lot of promises that he broke. After his death Joran became depressed."

She says: "I'm angry, but that is really an huge understatement. I want to say: go to hell. I'm not doing anything for you anymore."

So this was sort of a preview for the entire interview that will be on tv tomorrow here at 8.30pm (that's 2.30pm ET, 1.30 CST).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:34:01 PM
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=105539426161183&ref=ts
The administrator is Stephany cousin.

GOOD!  I'm glad she's keeping Stephany's case in the forefront!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 01:38:52 PM
NO BODY - NO CASE?

THE CONFESSION - JUNE 10, 2005

On June 10, 2005, a spokesperson for the office of the Aruban Minister of Justice reported that authorities confirmed the death of Natalee Holloway and the location of her body was known.

The Aruban chief of police reported that one of the suspects had provided a confession but ... the chief refused to reveal which suspect.

Prior to the Aruban Justice Minister's denial and his spokesperson's retraction, Natalee Holloway's parents had been notified of their daughter's demise.
________

 
'Fox News'

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html


'Fox News'

RICK LEVENTHAL: We reconfirmed the information with Croues before going on-air with it.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159664,00.html
 

'CBS News'

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach  after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/10/national/main700829.shtml


'Meridian Star'

DAVE HOLLOWAY: At some point into this investigation, as time goes on and you don’t find her, you start realizing that things are not looking good. We got that confirmation pretty much from the FBI on June 10. They came to us and said the investigation appears to be heading toward a homicide case.

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_148205455.html


'Scarborough Country'

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  And that was the day that the FBI came in, Doug Shipley (ph) came in and said that the way the interrogations are unfolding, there‘s a strong possibility that Natalee may not be alive. That was huge. That was the day that—I think, Joe, everyone buried Natalee that day, on June 10.

And then it just—from there, the night went on. There were body sightings, countless. They were knocking on my door. They thought they found her. Oh, no, they didn‘t. It went on from 2:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. It was horrific.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


'Crime/Punishment'

Then Justice Minister Rudy Croes told reporters early Saturday morning that the rumor that one of the students had confessed was a lie, throwing the media on the island into confusion and prompting conflicting news alerts from the Caribbean. Croes emphatically denied that any confession had been made.

http://crime.about.com/b/2005/06/10/confusion-reigns-in-natalee-holloway-case.htm


'Fox News'

Cruz later retracted the statement, saying he was a victim of a "misinformation campaign."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html

+++++++


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 -
« Reply #312 on: January 22, 2008, 08:43:21 PM »


... I believe is that the boys buried her by the fishermans hut, and Paulus and Co moved her without the boys knowledge  because of Joran's confession and the fact the boys recorded conversation  indicate they don't know where she is now.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2532.msg331268;topicseen#msg331268



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:41:36 PM
Wonder if Melody has cashed the ABC check yet .. ?? :}

Maybe because Anita does not trust the American Media Melody had them pay her in cash !!
This moring she has awakened to rolling around on the dollars laid out all over her bed.. Then, Knock Knock on the front door..
It is Anita looking for her part :} They stayed up all night a week ago writing that diary..



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 01:43:52 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extraditions..
He is out in 5


Edward, you are telling lies AGAIN!

Last time it was that Joran didn't smoke and that was proof the vids were tampered with, blah, blah, blah.

Give it a rest and see what he's even charged with first for a change.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 01:45:59 PM
Interview with Anita on RTL television - RTL Boulevard:

Anita: "Joran was a normal child. Especially the first years of his life he was a great child, no other than other children. He talked a lot with Paul, made a lot of promises that he broke. After his death Joran became depressed."

She says: "I'm angry, but that is really an huge understatement. I want to say: go to hell. I'm not doing anything for you anymore."

So this was sort of a preview for the entire interview that will be on tv tomorrow here at 8.30pm (that's 2.30pm ET, 1.30 CST).


Thanks, Jo-An!  I continue to hope Joran's computer holds proof that Anita assisted her international fugitive from justice. 

I have a dream of Interpol knocking on her door, lol.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 01:47:43 PM
Wonder if the judge is done with Joran today yet?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 01:49:42 PM
His mother found a few days ago that his son "is sick in the head"

Anita, you all are sick in the head, sooooooo, just shut up, SHUT UP..

He's a MURDERER, let it go.....You can't save him this time imo.

OS



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 01:50:05 PM
Wonder if the judge is done with Joran today yet?

I don't know, Klaas, but TruTv is covering it pretty closely.  Right now they are in the Anthony hearing but as soon as that concludes or there is news, I think they will go to Jinkasaurus right away and she will have the lowdown on the lowlife.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 01:53:51 PM
Anna.. I am guessing not lying.. I do not smoke, never noticed Joran smoke before.

In the last 5 years is this the only thing you have on me Blah Blah ?? :}

I am not trusting any of this because of what I am watching..
YOU do not like that ?
OK
I have not always seen your posts as correct either..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 01:55:15 PM
Interview with Anita on RTL television - RTL Boulevard:

Anita: "Joran was a normal child. Especially the first years of his life he was a great child, no other than other children. He talked a lot with Paul, made a lot of promises that he broke. After his death Joran became depressed."

She says: "I'm angry, but that is really an huge understatement. I want to say: go to hell. I'm not doing anything for you anymore."

So this was sort of a preview for the entire interview that will be on tv tomorrow here at 8.30pm (that's 2.30pm ET, 1.30 CST).

Thanks Jo-An

While my Dutch American DIL was conversing with her Grandfather in the Netherlands yesterday (Father's Day) ... she had an opportunity to speak to her cousin for a few minutes regarding the latest regarding Joran van der Sloot.  His take was that there was no sympathy for Joran but ... indicated that the majority of Dutch do not believe there was a corrupt Aruban investigation ... just a lack of evidence to charge.  Is the perspective of DIL's cousin regarding the Dutch correct?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 01:56:27 PM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO

I hope they hang him by his toes and beat him in the balls with a tablespoon.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 01:56:42 PM
Interview with Anita on RTL television - RTL Boulevard:

Anita: "Joran was a normal child. Especially the first years of his life he was a great child, no other than other children. He talked a lot with Paul, made a lot of promises that he broke. After his death Joran became depressed."

She says: "I'm angry, but that is really an huge understatement. I want to say: go to hell. I'm not doing anything for you anymore."

So this was sort of a preview for the entire interview that will be on tv tomorrow here at 8.30pm (that's 2.30pm ET, 1.30 CST).


Thanks, Jo-An!  I continue to hope Joran's computer holds proof that Anita assisted her international fugitive from justice. 

I have a dream of Interpol knocking on her door, lol.



Oh me too, me too. his cell phone too. And imo I believe it will. No doubt in my mind he called her first thing and we know she wouldn't tell him to turn himself in, except punishment, not in her makeup.

Also IMO, that is the real reason she will not go to Peru..Coward..

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 01:57:45 PM
Anna.. I am guessing not lying.. I do not smoke, never noticed Joran smoke before.

In the last 5 years is this the only thing you have on me Blah Blah ?? :}

I am not trusting any of this because of what I am watching..
YOU do not like that ?
OK
I have not always seen your posts as correct either..


Edward, when you are guessing, you should say you are guessing and not state it as a fact.

And I almost always state that something is my opinion when that is what it is.

We are all entitled to our own opinions but not our own facts.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 02:00:13 PM
Everything I say is just my opinion as I am ignorant and know nothing for sure except what I witnessed along with all of you in Aruba..
I do know a lot about America.
We are not in America any more..



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:01:08 PM
OS,
Yes, yes, yes, please let that be why Anita won't go to Peru!  She is not immune from Interpol anywhere especially if she helped him elude on the extortion.

It was stated earlier that she claimed she had not seen Joran since Paulus died.  Now it turns out he was living with her all along.

Lying runs in that family.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: the big hammer on June 21, 2010, 02:05:59 PM
Another "Retracted" Confession...

I don't think it matters at all.

There isn't a single redeeming feature or element surrounding the crime he most recently committed.  If he didn't kill Stefany to take her money and credit cards, then why did he have them when he was apprehended -- in another country, fleeing the law?

Peru, as a sovereign nation, has no duty -- moral or otherwise -- to release him, or extradite him, or sentence him leniently.  None. 

Based on the desription of the crime and the evident motive of robbery, what redeeming feature argues for "mercy?"  That he's mentally ill and requires medication or clinical help?  His actions infer otherwise.

.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 02:06:14 PM
cecilita - I'm sorry, maybe we should start at the beginning with this business of moving the car.

I noticed somewhere that as Joran exited the hotel, an employee asked him to move the car.

Do we know where the car was parked? If it was parked illegally, or maybe in an loading/unloading area that most hotels have? I think that might have a bearing on why Stephany went to the hotel - not intending to be there long.

I'll look for

It's JORAN that mentioned having to move the car in his confession:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8133.msg1163235#new

"I got up thinking what to do. There was also blood on my shirt and on the bed. When I took my shirt and I pushed it hard on her face, until she was dead. Then I thought: now what? I left the hotel but the receptionist told me I had to move the car. I went back to room 309. I wanted to flee the hotel. I grabbed my two bags and I drove away with the car. I do not remember where. I have about five minutes driving around. Then I took a taxi to the international airport "Jorge Chavez". Then I thought that I better not by plane could go. I took a taxi to the other side of town, at a bus terminal."

So my thinking is that if the hotel wanted Joran to move the car (this would be after Stephany was dead), maybe it was parked in a short-term parking space. Which suggests that Stephany had no intention of staying long. No online poker, plan for breakfast, etc.

(Sorry to keep at this, but I would REALLY like to know where the car was parked. And I'll bet it's on camera.)

What if, at some point, he had moved it there in order to load up the vehicle with his baggage, including her body in a suitcase.  He could, however, not tell the staff that as he had no intention of paying them that he was just putting it there while he loaded it.  Also, of note, he would not have been able to tell them "do not wake my girl up."  Another thing, when he left the room under the pretense of getting coffee, he sees the "monitor camera."  He is out of view for 20 minutes.  Did he move the car to this position at that point?" 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 02:07:43 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extraditions..
He is out in 5

He'll be dead in 1
 

One can only hope and pray for Anna's wishes to come true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 02:09:11 PM
Lets see.. The MAX is 16 years so far..
With good behavior and his constant complaining and Liberal political groups fighting for his extradition's..
He is out in 5

He'll be dead in 1

He is too famous..No famous people die in South American prisons..
He will be idolized by other prisoners.

Edward, I had that thought that he will be idolized by other prisoners because he brings to them a rebel attitude, one that can promise change to the system, can get the media in there, can make things happen because he is bitch for publicity.
He is Elite ..
jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Alabamaanna on June 21, 2010, 02:10:15 PM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO

I hope they hang him by his toes and beat him in the balls with a tablespoon.

I think there is some question of him actually having balls that could be beaten :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 02:12:01 PM
Interview with Anita on RTL television - RTL Boulevard:

Anita: "Joran was a normal child. Especially the first years of his life he was a great child, no other than other children. He talked a lot with Paul, made a lot of promises that he broke. After his death Joran became depressed."

She says: "I'm angry, but that is really an huge understatement. I want to say: go to hell. I'm not doing anything for you anymore."

So this was sort of a preview for the entire interview that will be on tv tomorrow here at 8.30pm (that's 2.30pm ET, 1.30 CST).

Thanks Jo-An

While my Dutch American DIL was conversing with her Grandfather in the Netherlands yesterday (Father's Day) ... she had an opportunity to speak to her cousin for a few minutes regarding the latest regarding Joran van der Sloot.  His take was that there was no sympathy for Joran but ... indicated that the majority of Dutch do not believe there was a corrupt Aruban investigation ... just a lack of evidence to charge.  Is the perspective of DIL's cousin regarding the Dutch correct?

Janet


Hi Janet,

to be honest, there have been hardly any reports on the Aruban investigation here in the NL. The only important things that people saw were Peter R de Vries' shows.
And it wasn't until I found this site a couple of years ago that I learned about the messed up Aruban investigation.
If you'd ask 1,000 people in the street here, 999 will not who Jan van Straaten is for instance.
I think the general assumption is that Paul helped Joran and took advantage of his position on the island. But people do not know all the ins and out, let alone the names of the people involved.
But listening to my own family and friends; everybody knows in their heart that Joran is guilty, but he's not in jail because his dad helped him. That's basically it.

What's also important I think: Aruba is so far away from the Netherlands, geographically speaking and it's so close to the US. Natalee was an American citizen. There was way, way more coverage on American tv-networks.
For a lot of Dutch people it's just literally too far away; although Aruba is still part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 02:12:50 PM
Wonder if Melody has cashed the ABC check yet .. ?? :}

Maybe because Anita does not trust the American Media Melody had them pay her in cash !!
This moring she has awakened to rolling around on the dollars laid out all over her bed.. Then, Knock Knock on the front door..
It is Anita looking for her part :} They stayed up all night a week ago writing that diary..



I would be almost willing to bet this is the money that is going toward paying attorneys for the delicious sporter.  Melody's elevator is stuck on her sensual glands and Anita is stuck on cash.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 02:13:44 PM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO

I hope they hang him by his toes and beat him in the balls with a tablespoon.

OUCH, didn't know he had dim der things, we have to add the rats in their too. Don't they like cheese, bet he is smelling pretty cheesy about now. ugggg yikes I am making myself sick..

Klaas I'll behave, I promise.

I am so sorry another young lady had to die at this monsters hands, should never have happened, but it feels good to know he is in prison, and in a Peru prison at that. Suffer Monster suffer...

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 02:13:50 PM
Cecilita,
Please see msmarple's last vew comments on the previous page.  She makes a good point that evidently Stephany's car wass parked in the short term parking area as Joran said they asked him to move it.  That proves she did not intend to spend any time in that room--not playing online poker or drinking coffee or anything.  Maybe get her $ back and leave.

Do you think PLE will notice this?  I think it is a very good tip.

JMO

Be they ever so humble, there is nothing so painful as a testicular torsion, a/k/a blue balls.

I hope they hang him by his toes and beat him in the balls with a tablespoon.

I think there is some question of him actually having balls that could be beaten :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 02:15:36 PM
au revoir, friends, I had another root canal this morning and my propoxy is kicking in as my novocaine kicks out.  Off to bed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 21, 2010, 02:16:34 PM
Joran's new confession: Zany the nanny did it!

(Sorry, that was suggested by a comment on another site.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:18:14 PM
Tyler,  Have a nice nap!  It's approaching 98 degrees outside with heat index about 105 so not much else you can do in this humidity anyway. 

May do the same without the root canal.  It's hard to stay awake in this humidity anyway.  94% I think.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 02:18:19 PM
Another "Retracted" Confession...

I don't think it matters at all.

There isn't a single redeeming feature or element surrounding the crime he most recently committed.  If he didn't kill Stefany to take her money and credit cards, then why did he have them when he was apprehended -- in another country, fleeing the law?

Peru, as a sovereign nation, has no duty -- moral or otherwise -- to release him, or extradite him, or sentence him leniently.  None. 

Based on the desription of the crime and the evident motive of robbery, what redeeming feature argues for "mercy?"  That he's mentally ill and requires medication or clinical help?  His actions infer otherwise.

.



Thanks Hammer, I agree his actions have evidenced he's fully capable of functioning well enough to commit extortion and flee (successfully) just prior to the murder.

Honestly (and not to open a can of worms or stir the pot around this), Peru didn't extradite reported Nazi war criminals who fled to there so why is everyone so sure Joran will be extradited or given a pass just due to pressure from NL and the Hague?

I think it's uncomfortable to have to be patient and wait this out for validated information but I do not think Peru or the judge will capitulate to an attorney presenting an argument around the confession. What other defense does Joran have?

Insanity, that's it.

We have to expect the defense attorney to do legal maneuvering ..........and see it for what it is.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:20:48 PM
Joran's new confession: Zany the nanny did it!

(Sorry, that was suggested by a comment on another site.)


Pretty good but I still like "The answer lies in Mountain Brook!" better. 

Maybe Joran's aruban supporters will next suggest the Flores family is trying to pull and insurance scam. 

Joran does seem to be going right by his old play book.  I think because he is just incapable of thinking of anything original.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 02:20:49 PM
Hello to Mere - good to 'see' you !!

Tyler, I hope the painkiller helps and that you can sleep past the pain.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 02:20:50 PM
Joran van der Sloot refused to testify before the judge for the crime of Stephany Flores

According to his lawyer, the Dutchman will not speak until you succeed the habeas corpus filed to overturn police investigation

Monday June 21, 2010 - 1:07 pm

The confessed murderer of the student Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot, declined today to answer questions from Judge Carlos Morales Cordova, who came to the Castro Castro prison for a first diligently with the subject.

Radio Programs reported, the judge stayed for nearly an hour inside the prison, and finally had to put on record the refusal of the Dutchman in a joint report with the prosecutor.


In the frustrated also took care of the Dutchman's lawyer, Max Highness, who retired without giving statements to the press. As reported by the radio, even before the lawyer had said his client did not declare before the judge until an unsuccessful habeas corpus filed for the annulment of all proceedings, ie his confession to the crime.

We also learned that just before the arrival of the judge, Van der Sloot watched the game Switzerland-Chile in the company of hitman Ospina Colombian Alejandro Trujillo.

With whom it wanted to talk Van der Sloot was with a journalist of "De Telegraaf"
who told Flores confessed to the crime in exchange for a supposed offer of extradition by the police. This interview was broadcast today.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/498451/joran-van-der-sloot-se-nego-declarar-ante-juez-crimen-stephany-flores


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 02:22:07 PM
Joran's new confession: Zany the nanny did it!

(Sorry, that was suggested by a comment on another site.)


Pretty good but I still like "The answer lies in Mountain Brook!" better. 

Maybe Joran's aruban supporters will next suggest the Flores family is trying to pull and insurance scam. 

Joran does seem to be going right by his old play book.  I think because he is just incapable of thinking of anything original.

Even the attorney doesn't have anything else, this is all such a desperate play I can't imagine why Altez agreed to stay on the case.

oh well, back to work and it's a typical Monday.........not fun.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ospainter on June 21, 2010, 02:26:33 PM
OS,
Yes, yes, yes, please let that be why Anita won't go to Peru!  She is not immune from Interpol anywhere especially if she helped him elude on the extortion.

It was stated earlier that she claimed she had not seen Joran since Paulus died.  Now it turns out he was living with her all along.

Lying runs in that family.

.

Anna,

Only thing that makes any sense to me, I was traveling when all this broke didn't see much of it so I am not up on all the details, had to skip over pages here to catch up, but she is the only one IMO he would contact to get help from.

I am not up on the extortion, hope they are investigating her and others for the sudden departure by him. Hope FBI is on it..

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 02:26:42 PM
Dutchman Joran van der Sloot was silent and answered questions from Judge

Lima (Peru.com) .- The Netherlands citizen Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of murdering Stephany Flores, refused to testify and did not answer questions from the judge of the Fourth Court for Prison Inmates in Lima, Carlos Morales.
 
Morales reached the maximum security prison Miguel Castro Castro, where Van der Sloot is being held for questioning to the subject that killed Flores, whom he met in a poker game in Atlantic City.
 
The prisoner was silent during the proceedings that lasted an hour. Morales Judge and Public Prosecutor's representative raised a record in this respect.
 
It should be noted that Van der Sloot told a newspaper revealed that police in Peru promised extradition to Holland, where he confessed that he killed Stephany Flores.
 
"If not resolved this question we will not declare anything," said his lawyer, Max Highness, stressing that this appeal was filed a week ago.
 
 In this document "we are saying that the process is suspended pending resolution of habeas corpus that we have raised," added the lawyer.

http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100621/103618/Holandes-Joran-van-der-Sloot-guardo-silencio-y-no-respondio-preguntas-de-juez-?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WwwperucomRssHomeActualidad+%28www.peru.com%3A+RSS+Home+Actualidad%29


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:28:09 PM
Another reason I am very interested in Stephany's car is that her brother said this morning on TruTv that he thinks she kept her winnings from poker in the car.  He has checked and she did not deposit it in the bank.

I am not sure how much he is talking about because he did mention different rates of exchange but I got the impression it was a considerable amount but couldn't understand what currency he was saying it was in.

Anyway, the Flores family thinks this is where her money was and Joran got the car and moved it.  You know he went throught it and took anything of value he could find.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:30:27 PM
Report coming up after commercial on TruTv on Joran's proceedings today.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 02:31:23 PM
Van der Sloot refused to testify at first hearing before a judge

Counsel for the Dutchman Van der Sloot advance that does not answer any questions until accepted habeas corpus to overturn the police investigation in this case.

It frustrated the first interrogation to clarify the crime of Stephany Flores, occurred on 30 May. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect and prosecuted for this case, refused to talk.

Van der Sloot was silent, and did not respond to any questions asked by both the presiding judge, Carlos Morales Cordova, head of the Fourth Court for Prison Inmates in Lima, and the prosecutor assigned to highly publicized case.

Everything that happened during the proceeding that lasted for over an hour in a compound of the Miguel Castro Castro, where the Netherlands is being held from June 11, was recorded in a report.

RPP reported, the foreign lawyer, Max Navarro Highness, concluded the interrogation proceeded to leave the prison without making statements to the press.

It should be noted that counsel had anticipated that his client would not answer any questions until accepted habeas corpus to overturn the police investigation that followed Van der Sloot in the case.

On the other hand, learned that frustrated after judicial proceedings, the alleged killer entered the atmosphere of the Castro Castro prison to see the match between national teams of Chile and Switzerland for the 2010 World Cup, which would have been accompanied by the hit man Trujillo Alejandro Ospina and the suspended mayor of Coronel Portillo (Pucallpa), Luis Valdez, their neighbors in prison.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-21-van-der-sloot-se-nego-a-declarar-en-primer-interrogatorio-ante-juez-noticia_274081.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 02:32:31 PM
Interview with Anita on RTL television - RTL Boulevard:

Anita: "Joran was a normal child. Especially the first years of his life he was a great child, no other than other children. He talked a lot with Paul, made a lot of promises that he broke. After his death Joran became depressed."

She says: "I'm angry, but that is really an huge understatement. I want to say: go to hell. I'm not doing anything for you anymore."

So this was sort of a preview for the entire interview that will be on tv tomorrow here at 8.30pm (that's 2.30pm ET, 1.30 CST).

Thanks Jo-An

While my Dutch American DIL was conversing with her Grandfather in the Netherlands yesterday (Father's Day) ... she had an opportunity to speak to her cousin for a few minutes regarding the latest regarding Joran van der Sloot.  His take was that there was no sympathy for Joran but ... indicated that the majority of Dutch do not believe there was a corrupt Aruban investigation ... just a lack of evidence to charge.  Is the perspective of DIL's cousin regarding the Dutch correct?

Janet


Hi Janet,

to be honest, there have been hardly any reports on the Aruban investigation here in the NL. The only important things that people saw were Peter R de Vries' shows.
And it wasn't until I found this site a couple of years ago that I learned about the messed up Aruban investigation.
If you'd ask 1,000 people in the street here, 999 will not who Jan van Straaten is for instance.
I think the general assumption is that Paul helped Joran and took advantage of his position on the island. But people do not know all the ins and out, let alone the names of the people involved.
But listening to my own family and friends; everybody knows in their heart that Joran is guilty, but he's not in jail because his dad helped him. That's basically it.

What's also important I think: Aruba is so far away from the Netherlands, geographically speaking and it's so close to the US. Natalee was an American citizen. There was way, way more coverage on American tv-networks.
For a lot of Dutch people it's just literally too far away; although Aruba is still part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands



Thanks Jo-An for your response.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:36:46 PM
According to Jinkasaurus, Joran made a statement to the judge that his "due process" rights have been violated. 

Alvarez has filed a motion claiming that Joran's detention is illegal and is waiting for a ruling on that.  That Joran was detained illegally because his detention was based on the false confession.

Apparently a ruling on that is expected in about a week.

Next the judge goes into the statements of the other defendants--the taxi drivers.

For those who are not watching, that's paraphrasing what she said.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 02:37:56 PM
au revoir, friends, I had another root canal this morning and my propoxy is kicking in as my novocaine kicks out.  Off to bed.

Rest well..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 02:43:59 PM
Thanks for all the updates-and so the van der Sloot 'catch me if you can ' legal games officailly begin ...  I'm thinking he will soon find out Peruvian jurists won't be so easy to buffalo.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 02:44:35 PM
**officially**


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 02:49:47 PM
Van der Sloot refused to testify at first hearing before a judge

Counsel for the Dutchman Van der Sloot advance that does not answer any questions until accepted habeas corpus to overturn the police investigation in this case.

It frustrated the first interrogation to clarify the crime of Stephany Flores, occurred on 30 May. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect and prosecuted for this case, refused to talk.

Van der Sloot was silent, and did not respond to any questions asked by both the presiding judge, Carlos Morales Cordova, head of the Fourth Court for Prison Inmates in Lima, and the prosecutor assigned to highly publicized case.

Everything that happened during the proceeding that lasted for over an hour in a compound of the Miguel Castro Castro, where the Netherlands is being held from June 11, was recorded in a report.

RPP reported, the foreign lawyer, Max Navarro Highness, concluded the interrogation proceeded to leave the prison without making statements to the press.

It should be noted that counsel had anticipated that his client would not answer any questions until accepted habeas corpus to overturn the police investigation that followed Van der Sloot in the case.

On the other hand, learned that frustrated after judicial proceedings, the alleged killer entered the atmosphere of the Castro Castro prison to see the match between national teams of Chile and Switzerland for the 2010 World Cup, which would have been accompanied by the hit man Trujillo Alejandro Ospina and the suspended mayor of Coronel Portillo (Pucallpa), Luis Valdez, their neighbors in prison.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-21-van-der-sloot-se-nego-a-declarar-en-primer-interrogatorio-ante-juez-noticia_274081.html

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranNoHear.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:50:48 PM
There is an official press release according to Jean Casarez.  I wonder if we can get a copy? 

Also stated that there should be a decision on the habeus corpus by Wednesday.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cece on June 21, 2010, 02:56:09 PM
There is an official press release according to Jean Casarez.  I wonder if we can get a copy? 

Also stated that there should be a decision on the habeus corpus by Wednesday.

Thanks Anna.  That's what I hear as well, Wednesday.

Also, earlier, it was said there is no penalty for perjury in Peru.  (Did I hear that right?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 02:57:37 PM
Joran says his rights have been violated.. Du Process

What Rights ?????????????

I remember this from the movie Butch Casady and the Sundance Kid.. When they were discussing rules of fighting.
There was a kick in the Nuts that followwed.

Game point Joran

The people of Peru  have met their match.
He is back spending time with the HitMan and learning new tricks to use in the future.


This really pissis me off..

I better go back to work.. Sorry for irritating everyone this morning..
The game playing little bastard and all of his supporters really piss me off and ABC is now on my list too.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 02:57:43 PM
http://www.thepulse.cl/2010/06/21/extortion-murder-and-the-disappearing-dutchman/

Extortion, murder and the disappearing Dutchman


EXCLUSIVE: Listen to an interview with Bo Dietl on the Joren van der Sloot case. Recorded this morning by Ruthie DiTucci at our sister radio station in the United States www. Syndicatednews.net.

In this interview, detective Bo Dietl talks in detail about van der Sloot’s alleged extortion of Natalee Holloway’s family, and the role of the FBI and Arubian authorities.  Dietl says he became involved with Joren van der Sloot in 2007 when he was hired by the family of missing Natalee Holloway to work on a wrongful death suit.  He talks about his perception of van der Sloots’ pattern of activities, meeting women at casinos and using date rape drugs.

With regards to Holloway’s death: “In this case something horrific happened and he disposed of her body,” says Dietl.

“Kelly, the lawyer for the Holloway family was contacted by van der Sloot in April.  He said that his father passed away last February, he wanted to come clean, give the family closure and tell them where she was buried.”

In return, says Dietl, van der Sloot wanted $250,000.  He says they talked to Natalee’s family who were happy to put up 10% and then talked to the FBI to arrange legal wiretapping of the Marriot in Aruba to catch the alleged extortion attempt.

In the interview, Dietl goes into more detail about what happened with the FBI, the $10,000 in cash that was handed to van der Sloot, and the $15,000 wire transfer. He talks about his problem with the system in Aruba.

“This guy should never have been able to leave Aruba,” he says.

With regards to reports today that van der Sloot wanted to retract his statement to the Peruvian police, following his extradition from Chile, Dietl is unequivocal.  “Tough bananas to this murderer, he wants to go back to Aruba,” says Dietl.  “The Peruvian government has a great premeditated murder case against him, they finally have this guy.”

“I would like to find out, through the FBI and Interpol, for the last five years… he has been travelling the world. I would like to find out how many other young ladies are missing if not dead,”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 21, 2010, 02:58:30 PM
This is a driveby real quick.. Thanks to everyone AGAIN who has posted links and news articles.. I been VERY busy and will be all week.. first I got to ctach up in the last few days. I have my baby grandaughter whos probably going to wake up any minute from her nap and need to get going. AGain.. Thanks for the articles.. I hardly even have time to watch tv either.
  IF Anyone sees NONESUCHE.. tell her she has mail  :)

 I can't get over Joran is retracting his statement.. Go figure.. but then again.. why should anyone be shocked about it. Pfftttttttttttttt.

 Read Melody got a nice sum of $ for her diary.. Geesh.. I kept one on my EX.. wonder if anyone would be interested in that thing from 16 yrs.. LOL


Hope all is doing well.. MERE nice seeing you and OS  and others.. off to finish cooking before baby wakes up !

HUGS !


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 02:59:08 PM
Van der Sloot refused to testify at first hearing before a judge

Counsel for the Dutchman Van der Sloot advance that does not answer any questions until accepted habeas corpus to overturn the police investigation in this case.

It frustrated the first interrogation to clarify the crime of Stephany Flores, occurred on 30 May. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect and prosecuted for this case, refused to talk.

Van der Sloot was silent, and did not respond to any questions asked by both the presiding judge, Carlos Morales Cordova, head of the Fourth Court for Prison Inmates in Lima, and the prosecutor assigned to highly publicized case.

Everything that happened during the proceeding that lasted for over an hour in a compound of the Miguel Castro Castro, where the Netherlands is being held from June 11, was recorded in a report.

RPP reported, the foreign lawyer, Max Navarro Highness, concluded the interrogation proceeded to leave the prison without making statements to the press.

It should be noted that counsel had anticipated that his client would not answer any questions until accepted habeas corpus to overturn the police investigation that followed Van der Sloot in the case.

On the other hand, learned that frustrated after judicial proceedings, the alleged killer entered the atmosphere of the Castro Castro prison to see the match between national teams of Chile and Switzerland for the 2010 World Cup, which would have been accompanied by the hit man Trujillo Alejandro Ospina and the suspended mayor of Coronel Portillo (Pucallpa), Luis Valdez, their neighbors in prison.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-21-van-der-sloot-se-nego-a-declarar-en-primer-interrogatorio-ante-juez-noticia_274081.html

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/JoranNoHear.jpg)

You were so right Klaasend


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 02:59:36 PM
Cece, that's what I understood as well.  That the defendant cannot be charged with perjury for misleading the court.  They don't expect them to tell the truth, apparently. 

But I think they would be more likely to if they could be charged additionally for lying to the judge, JMO, and don't think they are going to change that because we don't like it.

But I did hear the same as you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 03:03:02 PM
http://www.thepulse.cl/2010/06/21/extortion-murder-and-the-disappearing-dutchman/

Extortion, murder and the disappearing Dutchman


EXCLUSIVE: Listen to an interview with Bo Dietl on the Joren van der Sloot case. Recorded this morning by Ruthie DiTucci at our sister radio station in the United States www. Syndicatednews.net.

In this interview, detective Bo Dietl talks in detail about van der Sloot’s alleged extortion of Natalee Holloway’s family, and the role of the FBI and Arubian authorities.  Dietl says he became involved with Joren van der Sloot in 2007 when he was hired by the family of missing Natalee Holloway to work on a wrongful death suit.  He talks about his perception of van der Sloots’ pattern of activities, meeting women at casinos and using date rape drugs.

With regards to Holloway’s death: “In this case something horrific happened and he disposed of her body,” says Dietl.

“Kelly, the lawyer for the Holloway family was contacted by van der Sloot in April.  He said that his father passed away last February, he wanted to come clean, give the family closure and tell them where she was buried.”

In return, says Dietl, van der Sloot wanted $250,000.  He says they talked to Natalee’s family who were happy to put up 10% and then talked to the FBI to arrange legal wiretapping of the Marriot in Aruba to catch the alleged extortion attempt.

In the interview, Dietl goes into more detail about what happened with the FBI, the $10,000 in cash that was handed to van der Sloot, and the $15,000 wire transfer. He talks about his problem with the system in Aruba.

“This guy should never have been able to leave Aruba,” he says.

With regards to reports today that van der Sloot wanted to retract his statement to the Peruvian police, following his extradition from Chile, Dietl is unequivocal.  “Tough bananas to this murderer, he wants to go back to Aruba,” says Dietl.  “The Peruvian government has a great premeditated murder case against him, they finally have this guy.”

“I would like to find out, through the FBI and Interpol, for the last five years… he has been travelling the world. I would like to find out how many other young ladies are missing if not dead,”
His statement was made in front to a lawyer, he had a translater when he speaks and understands spanish pretty good.
This monster has been leaving between lawyers almost his entire life and now he was pressured to sign his statement? LIER!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 21, 2010, 03:04:01 PM
however the peruvian lawyer they had on, said his refusing to answer could be taken as obstruction of justice...having said that, given that they've filed this writ, that may not kick in until there is a ruling.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 21, 2010, 03:05:50 PM
however the peruvian lawyer they had on, said his refusing to answer could be taken as obstruction of justice...having said that, given that they've filed this writ, that may not kick in until there is a ruling.

it's on the video on this site --
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/ (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Curly on June 21, 2010, 03:05:56 PM
If he's not going to talk, they should rip out his tongue. He doesn't need it if he won't speak, then throw him into gen. pop.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cece on June 21, 2010, 03:07:39 PM
Cece, that's what I understood as well.  That the defendant cannot be charged with perjury for misleading the court.  They don't expect them to tell the truth, apparently. 

But I think they would be more likely to if they could be charged additionally for lying to the judge, JMO, and don't think they are going to change that because we don't like it.

But I did hear the same as you.

Thanks Anna :)

Does anyone have any insight into what will be the outcome of the "habeas corpus" ?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 03:11:07 PM
Cece, I understood that this judge will rule on the habeas corpus by this Wednesday but Joran's attorney will appeal that if it is not favorable  to his client.

So this appears to be a stalling tactic by the sloot attorney but I don't think it is a serious one and expect he would then lose the appeal.

JMO but don't most attorneys file and ask first that the case be dismissed like this?  I think it's pretty routine.

And just about always rejected.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 03:11:58 PM
however the peruvian lawyer they had on, said his refusing to answer could be taken as obstruction of justice...having said that, given that they've filed this writ, that may not kick in until there is a ruling.

it's on the video on this site --
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/ (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/)


Thanks Mojo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 03:14:15 PM
however the peruvian lawyer they had on, said his refusing to answer could be taken as obstruction of justice...having said that, given that they've filed this writ, that may not kick in until there is a ruling.

it's on the video on this site --
http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/ (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/)


Thank you mojo.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 03:15:49 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 21, 2010, 03:19:10 PM
Cece, that's what I understood as well.  That the defendant cannot be charged with perjury for misleading the court.  They don't expect them to tell the truth, apparently. 

But I think they would be more likely to if they could be charged additionally for lying to the judge, JMO, and don't think they are going to change that because we don't like it.

But I did hear the same as you.

Thanks Anna :)

Does anyone have any insight into what will be the outcome of the "habeas corpus" ?




Appeals and the Writ of Habeas Corpus FAQ Peru IN - Peru IN, legal ...
Appeals and the Writ of Habeas Corpus FAQ Peru IN. Defendants who think they've been wrongfully convicted of a crime have a number of options: appeals,

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&hs=x8m&rls=en&q=habeas+corpus+in+Peru&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 03:19:29 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 03:21:02 PM
http://www.thepulse.cl/2010/06/21/extortion-murder-and-the-disappearing-dutchman/

Extortion, murder and the disappearing Dutchman


EXCLUSIVE: Listen to an interview with Bo Dietl on the Joren van der Sloot case. Recorded this morning by Ruthie DiTucci at our sister radio station in the United States www. Syndicatednews.net.

In this interview, detective Bo Dietl talks in detail about van der Sloot’s alleged extortion of Natalee Holloway’s family, and the role of the FBI and Arubian authorities.  Dietl says he became involved with Joren van der Sloot in 2007 when he was hired by the family of missing Natalee Holloway to work on a wrongful death suit.  He talks about his perception of van der Sloots’ pattern of activities, meeting women at casinos and using date rape drugs.

With regards to Holloway’s death: “In this case something horrific happened and he disposed of her body,” says Dietl.

“Kelly, the lawyer for the Holloway family was contacted by van der Sloot in April.  He said that his father passed away last February, he wanted to come clean, give the family closure and tell them where she was buried.”

In return, says Dietl, van der Sloot wanted $250,000.  He says they talked to Natalee’s family who were happy to put up 10% and then talked to the FBI to arrange legal wiretapping of the Marriot in Aruba to catch the alleged extortion attempt.

In the interview, Dietl goes into more detail about what happened with the FBI, the $10,000 in cash that was handed to van der Sloot, and the $15,000 wire transfer. He talks about his problem with the system in Aruba.

“This guy should never have been able to leave Aruba,” he says.

With regards to reports today that van der Sloot wanted to retract his statement to the Peruvian police, following his extradition from Chile, Dietl is unequivocal.  “Tough bananas to this murderer, he wants to go back to Aruba,” says Dietl.  “The Peruvian government has a great premeditated murder case against him, they finally have this guy.”

“I would like to find out, through the FBI and Interpol, for the last five years… he has been travelling the world. I would like to find out how many other young ladies are missing if not dead,”
His statement was made in front to a lawyer, he had a translater when he speaks and understands spanish pretty good.
This monster has been leaving between lawyers almost his entire life and now he was pressured to sign his statement? LIER!!!!!!!

Peru police give Joran van der Sloot case to prosecutors
Updated 6/10/2010 6:00 PM


The case against the young Dutchman, who also remains the lone suspect in the Natalee Holloway missing-teenager case, goes to prosecutors Thursday so they can file formal charges, said the official, Gen. Cesar Guardia.

"We've practically closed the case," he told the Associated Press. "He's confessed with a wealth of details that have been corroborated through criminal investigative rigor."

Guardia denied any suggestion that Van der Sloot's confession was forced. He said a translator assigned by the Dutch Embassy was present, as was a state-appointed defense attorney.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-06-10-vandersloot-peru-case_N.htm




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 03:22:46 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



AH, he's going to use Jenna's conspiracy theory.  The one where it was a set up and Stephany isn't really dead. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 21, 2010, 03:23:09 PM
It's hard not to go down the path of "Here we go again...".  I'm trying my best.  I guess the one consolation is that Joran will sit in jail while he plays his legal maneuvering games....but the thought of him getting away with this too is, well, unimaginable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: muisje on June 21, 2010, 03:23:19 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus

See above link for the explanation "habeas corpus"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 03:25:28 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

Yeah, it's unbelievable the stuff this guy comes up with!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 03:27:03 PM

Sunday, June 13, 2010
Cross Border Cooperation: FBI did not factor in Aruban investigative policies?
" The problem, according to Lindsay, begins with good intentions and ends with jurisdictional limitations, mainly that the FBI has no jurisdiction run investigative operations in foreign countries.
Lindsay says FBI investigators probably thought that if they could get van der Sloot in a room with the alleged extortion money and get him to tell them the location of Natalee Holloway's body, that knowledge would be the same as a confession, and then Aruban authorities would be able to swoop in and arrest van der Sloot for murder. That's because, Lindsay says, that's what they do in the US. "
"Lindsay says that the FBI formula for extortion stings is, "set 'em up, pay 'em off, get 'em to talk, never let them leave the room without handcuffs on." It's that last step that has the FBI in hot water; they let van der Sloot leave the room. But, according to Lindsay, the FBI didn't have the power to stop him.
Lindsay believes that, because the Aruban police were calling the shots and the FBI was forced into the passenger seat by jurisdictional limitations, and because the Aruban police had already been burned by van der Sloot's "confessions" in the Holloway case more than once, those same police went the "trust but verify" route. " FBI Not To Blame Says Ex-Agent Paul Lindsay - Crimesider - CBS News
Posted by Federal and Extradition Defense at 12:58 PM
Labels: Mutual Legal Assistance;

http://obtainingforeignevidence.blogspot.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 03:30:18 PM
Joran keeps tight lipped
A Peruvian court has requested under Joran van der Sloot, but has said nothing. The interrogation of Joran was in jail in the Castro Castro prison in Lima.

By saying nothing to enforce that Joran's confession is repealed. Van der Sloot said earlier that he had slain Stephany Flores. He says now that he has signed confession in blind panic.

Scared
Joran was in Peru during the interrogation scared and confused have been. At the hearing he would always be told that if he signed the confession to the Netherlands could.

De Telegraaf said that Joran Peruvian police misled him. If he would confess he would be extradited to the Netherlands. In that interview was even more clear about the circumstances in which they reside. For example, at night the rats through the toilet in his cell crawling

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/21/binnenland/joran-houdt-kaken-stijf-op-elkaar.xml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 21, 2010, 03:32:16 PM
"Judge is none the wiser questioning Joran"

Joran van der Sloot has, as his lawyer had already been announced, said nothing during his first hearing Monday that was conducted by a Peruvian court. His lawyer Maximo Navarro Altez requires the confession that Joran did to the police about the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores withdrawal.

Van der Sloot was during the interview, which lasted just over one hour, silent and answered no questions of Judge Carlos Córdova Morales, Peruvian media reported. The hearing was held in the Miguel Castro Castro high-security prison, where Van der Sloot stuck since June 11. Van der Sloot said earlier by The Associated Press that he "blind panic" and his confession that he was misled by the Peruvian police.

His lawyer was after hearing the press no longer speak. Van der Sloot went after the hearing in the company of a Colombian hit man, with whom he shares a cell block, the World Cup match Chile - Swiss watch.

http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/391692/1/1/50/rechter-wordt-niets-wijzer-van-verhoor-joran.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 03:37:03 PM
Joran must think he is still in Aruba where his confessions were allowed to be retracted time and time again ... where authorities either released or failed to arrest because they did not know what to believe.

Janet

+++++++


Van der Sloot declines to give statement in court appearanceBy the CNN Wire Staff
June 21, 2010 3:25 p.m. EDT


Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot told a judge Monday that his rights and due process were violated after his arrest in connection with the killing of a Peruvian woman, his attorney told CNN.

The judge will decide on the legality of van der Sloot's incarceration by Wednesday, lawyer Maximo Altez said. If the ruling is unfavorable to van der Sloot, Altez said he is prepared to appeal to the highest court.

While in front of the judge, however, van der Sloot declined to give a formal statement on the facts of the case, according to the court. The reason he gave was the ongoing motion for habeas corpus, which he hopes will nullify the statements he gave to police that led to his imprisonment.

Van der Sloot's decision will not hold up the legal proceedings against from advancing, the court said.

Meanwhile, in a Dutch newspaper article published Monday, van der Sloot says he was "tricked" into confessing to the murder of a Peruvian student, Stephany Flores Ramirez.

Peruvian police told him that if he signed the papers they gave him, he would be transferred to the Netherlands, he told De Telegraaf in a jail interview.

"In my blind panic I signed everything, but never knew what was written on them," he said.

Van der Sloot was twice arrested over the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005, but never charged.

His mother said Saturday he was mentally unwell, De Telegraaf reported in what it called an exclusive interview with her.

Van der Sloot went to Peru to escape having to enter the high security section of a psychiatric hospital, Anita van der Sloot said.

She said he suffered severe psychological distress at the early death of his father, for which he blamed himself, she said, without giving further details.

She did not deny that he killed Flores.

She said she spoke to him shortly before Flores died and soon after and that he sounded paranoid, saying he was being "followed and watched," De Telegraaf reported.

Van der Sloot's attorney, Altez, has maintained that the judge in the case should strike down van der Sloot's confession because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

But Peruvian police have defended the interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession was acquired legally.

According to transcripts of his confession, van der Sloot said he elbowed Flores in the face before strangling her and then suffocating her with his shirt.

The transcripts -- provided to CNN by a police source -- provide shocking details and give the public its first glimpse of why van der Sloot says the alleged murder took place. The source has not been named because he was not authorized to pass along the material.

"There was blood everywhere," van der Sloot said in the transcripts. "What am I going to do now. I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so, I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Peruvian authorities have charged van der Sloot with murder.

Van der Sloot told authorities he attacked Flores on May 30 after she read an e-mail on his computer connected with the Holloway case.

In the transcript, van der Sloot said that after Flores read the e-mail, she punched him in the face.

"At that moment impulsively, with my right elbow I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose," van der Sloot said. "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."

Van der Sloot said he had a quick thought to try and hide the body but instead fled.

He was arrested in Chile on June 3 and was returned the next day to Peru. Along with killing Flores, who had a broken neck, he took money and bank cards from her wallet, police said.

Van der Sloot told police in Chile a different story of how Flores died when he was arrested there, according to transcripts. He blamed the death on robbers who had waited for him at his hotel in Peru.

"There was a man coming from the access door with a knife in his hand," van der Sloot said. "The man with the knife hit her in the face, making her bleed through the nose."

But Peru authorities said they had overwhelming evidence pointing to van der Sloot, and when he was transferred to Peru, van der Sloot confessed to the crime, police said.

Van der Sloot said he was in Peru for a poker tournament and had met Flores while he was gambling.

Police have said they think van der Sloot killed Flores to steal money she won from gambling.

Van der Sloot offered a different motive.

"After I responded with hitting her, I feared that she would go to the police and they would detain me for what was an impulsive act," van der Sloot said. "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn't thinking."

Van der Sloot is being held in a high-security area of the Miguel Castro Castro prison where only two of 10 cells are occupied, and he has no contact with inmates in the general prison population.

He is under guard 24 hours a day, authorities have said.

The only other inmate in the area is alleged Colombian hit man Hugo Trujillo Ospina. The two have spent some time together in a common area where there is a television set and weights made of broomsticks and soda bottles, authorities said.

There is the possibility that van der Sloot will be integrated with other segments of the prison population.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/21/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=C1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 03:37:34 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



Total bullsh!t......he was transferred to Peru because that's where he committed a crime where he MURDERED Stephany Flores.

And according to the monster he turned himself in to Chilean authorities. Why would the idiot think they would try him in Chile when he committed a crime in Peru.

Peru will NOT put up with this stalling tactic..... he is only shooting his own foot. He will remain in prison while he plays his games. Not to mention, his continued lying will be to his detriment.
Let them throw out his confession, and this will go to trial......the evidence will speak for itself without his confession. Giving a confession in Peru is to the suspects best interest. No confession=longer sentence.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: tcumom on June 21, 2010, 03:42:23 PM
Heck, I'm aggravated that he even has the opportunity to watch the World Cup.
 
I want him sitting in that stinky cell he shares with the rats, having nothing to do except sit.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: muisje on June 21, 2010, 03:49:35 PM
RTL 4 television interview Tuesday with mom Joran van der Sloot

http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&sourceid=ie8-activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Fzappen.blog.nl%2Frtl-nederland%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2Frtl-4-dinsdag-met-tv-interview-moeder-joran-van-der-sloot


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nychic on June 21, 2010, 03:50:45 PM
That Pig is being allowed to watch World Cup IN JAIL ? WTF Is Going On ?
I realize that there is probably a very good reason for all of this royal treatment in that the Peruvians are being extra careful not to allow the Netherlands to say that his human rights are being violated or some other bullshit - but this sickens me
PULL THE PLUG ON THAT TV - That would be great payback since everyone knows he loves World Cup Soccer

Next thing I'm expecting is that a casino will be set up inside Castro Castro and The Pig will be teaching Texas Hold Em to other prisoners as part of their work rehab program !


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 03:51:25 PM
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return.

He was even able to manipulate Greta S. last time around.
He is a professional. He really gets to females.

I hope PERU is able to break him down into the little man he really is.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 03:58:33 PM
That Pig is being allowed to watch World Cup IN JAIL ? WTF Is Going On ?
I realize that there is probably a very good reason for all of this royal treatment in that the Peruvians are being extra careful not to allow the Netherlands to say that his human rights are being violated or some other bullshit - but this sickens me
PULL THE PLUG ON THAT TV - That would be great payback since everyone knows he loves World Cup Soccer

Next thing I'm expecting is that a casino will be set up inside Castro Castro and The Pig will be teaching Texas Hold Em to other prisoners as part of their work rehab program !

Maybe the prize would be a new set of Ben Wa balls for Joran. He must be missing his by now. LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 21, 2010, 04:00:00 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

Yeah, it's unbelievable the stuff this guy comes up with!!!


Anita has her nasty little fingerprints all over this!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: muisje on June 21, 2010, 04:01:05 PM
Joran to torture a confession

http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&sourceid=ie8-activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ad.nl%2Fad%2Fnl%2F1005%2FDigitaal%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F492270%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2FMartel-Joran-tot-een-bekentenis.dhtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 04:01:10 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

Yeah, it's unbelievable the stuff this guy comes up with!!!



Joran's email to John Ludwick:

May 29:
"Happy birthday man I hope you had a good day & remember how imortant family & friends are.  I won't bother you today but send me some money through Western Union tomorrow.  The only information of mine you is my name Joran van der Sloot, the country Peru & the city Lima.  I need this man for my ticket back so di it for me.  Take care & enjoy your b-day."

May 26:
Hey,
Just so you know I will be coming back to Aruba on Sunday."

May 10:
"I am going to Peru to live their (sic) until I need to go back to Thailand & take care of my shop.  I am done with Aruba.  Take care."


----

Looks like he wanted to call Peru home! Well, he got his wish. :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 21, 2010, 04:03:00 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

Yeah, it's unbelievable the stuff this guy comes up with!!!


Anita has her nasty little fingerprints oops..pawprints all over this!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 04:04:18 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



At the very least Joran is conceding that he had prior knowledge of the impending extradition to the US to face extortion charges.

Was Joran afforded a heads up from Aruban authorities?

Janet

+++++

Department of Justice Press Release
 
For Immediate Release
June 3, 2010 United States Attorney's Office
Northern District of Alabama
Contact: (205) 244-2001

 
Joran van der Sloot Charged with Fraud and Extortion in Birmingham

BIRMINGHAM—Federal prosecutors in Birmingham have filed a criminal complaint against JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, a citizen of the Netherlands, on wire fraud and extortion charges in connection with his soliciting money in May on promises he would reveal the location of Natalee Holloway’s remains in Aruba and circumstances of her death, U.S. Attorney Joyce White Vance and FBI Special Agent in Charge Patrick Maley announced today.

“We are committed to protecting citizens from unscrupulous individuals who attempt to financially exploit a person’s deepest fears and greatest loss,” Vance said.

The wire fraud and extortion charges are unrelated to the ongoing murder investigation in Peru, in which van der Sloot is an alleged person of interest.

Vance said her office filed the two-count criminal complaint today in U.S. District Court in Birmingham.

The complaint charges that van der Sloot, on May 10, extorted $15,000 from an individual as partial payment toward his promise to reveal the location of Natalee Holloway’s remains for $250,000. The maximum sentence on the extortion count is 20 years in prison.

The complaint also charges van der Sloot with wire fraud for causing the $15,000 to be transferred by wire from a Birmingham bank to a bank in the Netherlands in furtherance of his scheme to defraud. The maximum sentence for the wire fraud count is 30 years.

Vance thanked Aruban authorities for the assistance they provided in this investigation.
 
Members of the public are reminded that the criminal complaint contains only charges. A defendant is presumed not guilty.

Press Releases | Birmingham Home

http://birmingham.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/bh_060310.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Scatty on June 21, 2010, 04:11:38 PM
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return.

He was even able to manipulate Greta S. last time around.
He is a professional. He really gets to females.

I hope PERU is able to break him down into the little man he really is.

 

Ditto, Edward. I also think he is able to get to men as well as females, making them think he is their best bud in the world. There are always going to be people susceptible to sociopaths. Our only defense against these predators, is knowledge of what a sociopath is and their common traits.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 21, 2010, 04:11:57 PM
Well, if he says he was tricked, they should just let him go. I mean they have to, don't they ? And they also didn't say please and thank you sir, either. That's got to count for something doesn't it ?
...
Make a public announcement on Peruvian TV as to when and just let him go from the prison gates. Give him some fast running shoes and let him GO man, just end it that way.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: robots on June 21, 2010, 04:12:40 PM
the liar and his stupid idiotic defense lawyers....
hahahahahahaahahaha  doing what they do


good luck with that stuff joran,

aint gonna fly this time

i heard his new name is  jorana  from all the other prisoners

nawwwwwwwwww. not this time PUNK

<---------------not worried at all that he gets out


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 04:12:47 PM
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return.

He was even able to manipulate Greta S. last time around.
He is a professional. He really gets to females.

I hope PERU is able to break him down into the little man he really is.

 


I am quoting  michelled at BFN ..
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return

I have said it before but I just liked the way SHE said it today.. BUT I must give her credit for it because it is right to do so.
 and as johanna 555 "little girl" at BFN demands it.. I guess he/she lurks here these days.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 21, 2010, 04:14:17 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



Oh, my gosh, give me a break!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 04:14:48 PM
John van den Heuvel on tv right now (RTL Boulevard).
He's the crime reporter who interviewed both Anita and Joran last week.
He said he already contacted Anita a couple of weeks ago and she agreed to do an interview last week.
Then he asked her if she could arrange an interview with Joran.
I didn't hear the whole thing, because I was on the phone but...


Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: robots on June 21, 2010, 04:15:08 PM
Well, if he says he was tricked, they should just let him go. I mean they have to, don't they ? And they also didn't say please and thank you sir, either. That's got to count for something doesn't it ?
...
Make a public announcement on Peruvian TV as to when and just let him go from the prison gates. Give him some fast running shoes and let him GO man, just end it that way.

 

LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 04:22:14 PM
John van den Heuvel on tv right now (RTL Boulevard).
He's the crime reporter who interviewed both Anita and Joran last week.
He said he already contacted Anita a couple of weeks ago and she agreed to do an interview last week.
Then he asked her if she could arrange an interview with Joran.
I didn't hear the whole thing, because I was on the phone but...


Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!

It is all crap. Joran will be a dead man soon.

...but I am glad you posted it... it blows my mind that they think he has even the slightest chance of getting out of this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 04:25:28 PM
John van den Heuvel on tv right now (RTL Boulevard).
He's the crime reporter who interviewed both Anita and Joran last week.
He said he already contacted Anita a couple of weeks ago and she agreed to do an interview last week.
Then he asked her if she could arrange an interview with Joran.
I didn't hear the whole thing, because I was on the phone but...


Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!



It makes no sense at all that the FBI would "Lure" Joran anywhere when they already had everything authorized with Aruba to arrest and extradite Joran.

What is this John smoking that he would buy into Joran's delusion like this?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: the big hammer on June 21, 2010, 04:26:02 PM
Contempt of Court, Obstruction of Justice

The goon and his legal help had better ensure that the claim of violated rights is reasonably made, that relevant facts can be found to support the contention, that a duly signed confession executed with competent legal advice as witness should be subject to review.

Otherwise...if found that he abuses accepted judicial process, that he wastes the court's time, resources and assets, he could well find himself prosecuted for capital murder PLUS the Peruvian equivalents of contempt of court and obstruction of justice.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 21, 2010, 04:30:17 PM
Don't know if this was posted yet.

Joran van der Sloot refused to testify before the judge for the crime of Stephany Flores

According to his lawyer, the Dutchman will not speak until they thrive filed habeas corpus to overturn police investigation

Monday June 21, 2010 - 1:07 pm

The confessed murderer of the student Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot , declined today to answer questions from Judge Carlos Morales Cordova, who came to the Castro Castro prison for a first diligently with the subject.

Radio Programs reported, the judge stayed for nearly an hour inside the prison, and finally had to put on record the refusal of the Dutchman in a joint report with the prosecutor.

In the abortive diligence also participated Dutchman's lawyer, Max Highness, who retired without giving statements to the press. As reported by the radio, even before the lawyer had said his client did not declare before the judge until an unsuccessful habeas corpus filed for the annulment of all proceedings, ie his confession to the crime.

We also learned that just before the arrival of the judge, Van der Sloot watched the game Switzerland-Chile in the company of hitman Ospina Colombian Alejandro Trujillo.

With whom it wanted to talk Van der Sloot was with a journalist of "De Telegraaf"
who told Flores confessed to the crime in exchange for an alleged offer of extradition by the police. This interview was broadcast today.

http://tinyurl.com/3xpbfeg


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Spock on June 21, 2010, 04:33:59 PM
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return.


He is mentally ill, it is not just a ploy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 04:35:54 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



The FBI claims otherwise.

Janet

+++++

Press Release
For Immediate Release
June 9, 2010

FBI Birmingham
Contact: Public Affairs Specialist Paul E. Daymond
(205) 279-1457
United States Attorney's Office
Northern District of Alabama
Contact: (205) 244-2001

 
Joint Statement by United States Attorney Joyce White Vance and FBI Special Agent in Charge Patrick Maley Regarding the Joran van der Sloot Investigation

In April of this year, the FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in Birmingham, Alabama initiated an investigation into allegations of criminal conduct by Joran van der Sloot related to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba five years earlier. Prior to law enforcement's involvement in the situation, Van der Sloot offered to provide information to an individual regarding the location of Natalee Holloway's remains and the circumstances of her death in exchange for $250,000.00. The FBI-led investigation was conducted in conjunction with Aruban authorities. The U.S. Attorney filed a criminal complaint charging van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud on June 3, 2010.

Some news accounts have suggested that the FBI provided $25,000.00 in funds that were transmitted to van der Sloot. This is incorrect. The funds involved were private funds.

News accounts have also questioned why charges were not brought earlier, so that the tragic death of Stephany Flores could have been avoided. We offer our heartfelt sympathy to the Flores family. The Birmingham investigation was not related in any way to the murder in Peru. Despite having been in motion for several weeks at the time of Miss Flores’ death, it was not sufficiently developed to bring charges prior to the time van der Sloot left Aruba. This is not due to any fault on the part of the FBI or the U.S. Attorney’s Office, where agents and prosecutors were working as hard as possible to bring the case to fruition when they learned of the murder. A case based on events outside of the United States is a complex matter, and work was proceeding with all deliberate speed to prepare the evidence, the charges, and the necessary procedures to obtain custody of van der Sloot.

http://birmingham.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel10/bh060910.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 04:43:16 PM
Would You Help Your Kid Get Away With Murder?
posted Monday, June 21, 2010


For some parents, blood is thicker than water -- even when it comes to violent crime.



How far would you go to protect your children? What if they were involved in a crime -- and that crime was murder?

Even with the mountain of evidence against Joran van der Sloot -- including video footage and a confession -- his mother, Anita, still believes her son is innocent; that he is, in her words, "not a murderer." In an e-mail to Joran's former girlfriend, Anita wrote, "[Joran] is not the monster they like the world to see .... It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."  Before his death earlier this year, Joran's father, Paul, also stood by his son -- some say even going so far as to pay off the authorities after Joran was accused of murdering Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005.

Casey Anthony, the Florida mom accused of murdering her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, can also count on her parents for support. Both George and Cindy Anthony regularly make public appearances defending their daughter's innocence. And they allegedly changed their stories and possibly tampered with evidence ....

This brand of family solidarity is not uncommon. In addition to protesting their child's innocence (whether they really believe it themselves or not), the parents of criminals often offer various levels of help, says Robin Sax, a former Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney. The first kind of assistance, says Sax, involves knowing about a crime but not telling the authorities. The second is refusing to cooperate with the authorities even when they have information about the crime. And then there are the parents who actually lie and cover up the crime to keep their child out of prison. Still, despite all the possibilities, Sax says that many parents actually do the right thing: They turn in their child.

If a member of your immediate family told you they'd killed someone, would you help them cover up their crime -- or would you turn them in to the police?

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/06/van_der_sloot_casey_anthony_mo.php


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 21, 2010, 04:44:53 PM
Don't know if this was posted yet.

From: El Commercio

Joran van der Sloot refused to testify before the judge for the crime of Stephany Flores

According to his lawyer, the Dutchman will not speak until they thrive filed habeas corpus to overturn police investigation

Monday June 21, 2010 - 1:07 pm

The confessed murderer of the student Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot , declined today to answer questions from Judge Carlos Morales Cordova, who came to the Castro Castro prison for a first diligently with the subject.

Radio Programs reported, the judge stayed for nearly an hour inside the prison, and finally had to put on record the refusal of the Dutchman in a joint report with the prosecutor.

In the abortive diligence also participated Dutchman's lawyer, Max Highness, who retired without giving statements to the press. As reported by the radio, even before the lawyer had said his client did not declare before the judge until an unsuccessful habeas corpus filed for the annulment of all proceedings, ie his confession to the crime.

We also learned that just before the arrival of the judge, Van der Sloot watched the game Switzerland-Chile in the company of hitman Ospina Colombian Alejandro Trujillo.

With whom it wanted to talk Van der Sloot was with a journalist of "De Telegraaf"
who told Flores confessed to the crime in exchange for an alleged offer of extradition by the police. This interview was broadcast today.

http://tinyurl.com/3xpbfeg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 04:48:10 PM
Remember Anita said that "somebody" had invited Joran to a poker tournament in Peru.

That's probably what her sporter told her, anyway.  And so they now have delusions of some sort of entrapment ploy or what?

Joran is not under arrest for extortion in Peru.  It's for the cold blooded murder of another young girl.

The FBI has nothing to do with anything.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 04:48:53 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



The FBI claims otherwise.

Janet

+++++

Press Release
For Immediate Release
June 9, 2010

FBI Birmingham
Contact: Public Affairs Specialist Paul E. Daymond
(205) 279-1457
United States Attorney's Office
Northern District of Alabama
Contact: (205) 244-2001

 
Joint Statement by United States Attorney Joyce White Vance and FBI Special Agent in Charge Patrick Maley Regarding the Joran van der Sloot Investigation

In April of this year, the FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in Birmingham, Alabama initiated an investigation into allegations of criminal conduct by Joran van der Sloot related to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba five years earlier. Prior to law enforcement's involvement in the situation, Van der Sloot offered to provide information to an individual regarding the location of Natalee Holloway's remains and the circumstances of her death in exchange for $250,000.00. The FBI-led investigation was conducted in conjunction with Aruban authorities. The U.S. Attorney filed a criminal complaint charging van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud on June 3, 2010.

Some news accounts have suggested that the FBI provided $25,000.00 in funds that were transmitted to van der Sloot. This is incorrect. The funds involved were private funds.

News accounts have also questioned why charges were not brought earlier, so that the tragic death of Stephany Flores could have been avoided. We offer our heartfelt sympathy to the Flores family. The Birmingham investigation was not related in any way to the murder in Peru. Despite having been in motion for several weeks at the time of Miss Flores’ death, it was not sufficiently developed to bring charges prior to the time van der Sloot left Aruba. This is not due to any fault on the part of the FBI or the U.S. Attorney’s Office, where agents and prosecutors were working as hard as possible to bring the case to fruition when they learned of the murder. A case based on events outside of the United States is a complex matter, and work was proceeding with all deliberate speed to prepare the evidence, the charges, and the necessary procedures to obtain custody of van der Sloot.

http://birmingham.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel10/bh060910.htm

This monster wants to blame the FBI for his own actions, unbelievable!!!! well why not to believe that he killed Stephanie to avoid extradition to USA for the extorsion and soon or later face Natalee's murdered trial.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 04:49:49 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

Yeah, it's unbelievable the stuff this guy comes up with!!!



Joran's email to John Ludwick:

May 29:
"Happy birthday man I hope you had a good day & remember how imortant family & friends are.  I won't bother you today but send me some money through Western Union tomorrow.  The only information of mine you is my name Joran van der Sloot, the country Peru & the city Lima.  I need this man for my ticket back so di it for me.  Take care & enjoy your b-day."

May 26:
Hey,
Just so you know I will be coming back to Aruba on Sunday."

May 10:
"I am going to Peru to live their (sic) until I need to go back to Thailand & take care of my shop.  I am done with Aruba.  Take care."


----

Looks like he wanted to call Peru home! Well, he got his wish. :)

The only thing that lured Joran to Peru was a poker table, and the opportunity to steal someones $$$$$.

Didn't he tell his demon mother he was "invited" to a tournament in Peru? Of course mother sloot could be lying about the "love note" Joran left for her. They both lie as naturally as we breath air.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 04:53:27 PM
This is a driveby real quick.. Thanks to everyone AGAIN who has posted links and news articles.. I been VERY busy and will be all week.. first I got to ctach up in the last few days. I have my baby grandaughter whos probably going to wake up any minute from her nap and need to get going. AGain.. Thanks for the articles.. I hardly even have time to watch tv either.
  IF Anyone sees NONESUCHE.. tell her she has mail  :)

 I can't get over Joran is retracting his statement.. Go figure.. but then again.. why should anyone be shocked about it. Pfftttttttttttttt.

 Read Melody got a nice sum of $ for her diary.. Geesh.. I kept one on my EX.. wonder if anyone would be interested in that thing from 16 yrs.. LOL


Hope all is doing well.. MERE nice seeing you and OS  and others.. off to finish cooking before baby wakes up !

HUGS !

Sorry Angie, I did get your voicemail and I will review the email again, lovely photos of your precious granddaughter. I've just been swamped, having to work up a presentation for my boss for the head of our division plus perform quality control on several new business process documents - all due asap.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: DPJ on June 21, 2010, 04:53:37 PM
Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!
Saw that to Jo An and van den Heuvel seemed quite confident about the legal and procedural errors and Joran's lawyer aiming to use all of them.

Also I got reports of many RTL people on Aruba and legal and consular council on their way to Peru. It seems the gameplan is to keep this as high-profile as it gets and that might just be the thing to get the Peruvian government to cave in.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 04:55:27 PM
msmarple - nice job commenting on the Peru website  ;-)

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Felcomercio.pe%2Fnoticia%2F498451%2Fjoran-van-der-sloot-se-nego-declarar-ante-juez-crimen-stephany-flores&sl=es&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 04:57:22 PM
Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!
Saw that to Jo An and van den Heuvel seemed quite confident about the legal and procedural errors and Joran's lawyer aiming to use all of them.

Also I got reports of many RTL people on Aruba and legal and consular council on their way to Peru. It seems the gameplan is to keep this as high-profile as it gets and that might just be the thing to get the Peruvian government to cave in.

If Peru caves in to Aruba or the NL when it comes to this monster the world will be outraged.  Joran will be a dead man even faster. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 04:59:31 PM
Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!
Saw that to Jo An and van den Heuvel seemed quite confident about the legal and procedural errors and Joran's lawyer aiming to use all of them.

Also I got reports of many RTL people on Aruba and legal and consular council on their way to Peru. It seems the gameplan is to keep this as high-profile as it gets and that might just be the thing to get the Peruvian government to cave in.


Get the Peruvian government to cave in to what?

Allowing Joran to get away with cold-blooded murder when they have an airtight case against him?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 05:06:03 PM
Should Joran's attorney succeed in getting the confession throw out (or more li8kely the judge decide there is more evidence than needed without it) it does not mean Joran goes free.

It means he will not be detained any longer on the basis of his confession.  So Peru will then detain him based on something else like forensic evidence.

It's really no big deal and certainly not any game cchanger.


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 05:07:02 PM
Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!
Saw that to Jo An and van den Heuvel seemed quite confident about the legal and procedural errors and Joran's lawyer aiming to use all of them.

Also I got reports of many RTL people on Aruba and legal and consular council on their way to Peru. It seems the gameplan is to keep this as high-profile as it gets and that might just be the thing to get the Peruvian government to cave in.

If Peru caves in to Aruba or the NL when it comes to this monster the world will be outraged.  Joran will be a dead man even faster. 

Monkeys will be outraged ... Beth will be outraged. but ... I do not know about the world.  Did you read Jo-An's post regarding the Dutch.  Did you read the first FBI press release regarding the extortion charge.  The release affords the Arubans appreciation  for their cooperation.  Stephany's father states publicly  that it does not concern him whether Joran is detained in Peru or the Netherlands/Aruba as long as he is detained.

Klaas ... I no longer think that the "world" gets it.  I do not think the "world" comprehends that a corrupt Aruban investigation has an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case and ... the corrupt investigation has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

IMO

Help!  Klaas ... my comment submitted to the last Natalee Holloway FP blog went "poof".

Thanks

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 05:08:11 PM
Would You Help Your Kid Get Away With Murder?
posted Monday, June 21, 2010


For some parents, blood is thicker than water -- even when it comes to violent crime.



How far would you go to protect your children? What if they were involved in a crime -- and that crime was murder?

Even with the mountain of evidence against Joran van der Sloot -- including video footage and a confession -- his mother, Anita, still believes her son is innocent; that he is, in her words, "not a murderer." In an e-mail to Joran's former girlfriend, Anita wrote, "[Joran] is not the monster they like the world to see .... It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."  Before his death earlier this year, Joran's father, Paul, also stood by his son -- some say even going so far as to pay off the authorities after Joran was accused of murdering Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005.

Casey Anthony, the Florida mom accused of murdering her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, can also count on her parents for support. Both George and Cindy Anthony regularly make public appearances defending their daughter's innocence. And they allegedly changed their stories and possibly tampered with evidence ....

This brand of family solidarity is not uncommon. In addition to protesting their child's innocence (whether they really believe it themselves or not), the parents of criminals often offer various levels of help, says Robin Sax, a former Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney. The first kind of assistance, says Sax, involves knowing about a crime but not telling the authorities. The second is refusing to cooperate with the authorities even when they have information about the crime. And then there are the parents who actually lie and cover up the crime to keep their child out of prison. Still, despite all the possibilities, Sax says that many parents actually do the right thing: They turn in their child.

If a member of your immediate family told you they'd killed someone, would you help them cover up their crime -- or would you turn them in to the police?

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/06/van_der_sloot_casey_anthony_mo.php


Anita may change her tune when Joran throws her and dead daddy Paulus under the bus.
If Joran thinks he will get extradited to a Netherland's prison (I don't think that would occur even if he did) for the truth about the cover-up in Aruba, IMO he very well might turn on his mother. The reality that mother isn't coming to his rescue this time could enrage him, especially if she played any part of the cover-up of Natalee's disappearance and death. His thinking will be she has to be punished as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 21, 2010, 05:12:12 PM
Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!
Saw that to Jo An and van den Heuvel seemed quite confident about the legal and procedural errors and Joran's lawyer aiming to use all of them.

Also I got reports of many RTL people on Aruba and legal and consular council on their way to Peru. It seems the gameplan is to keep this as high-profile as it gets and that might just be the thing to get the Peruvian government to cave in.

It's online now: http://tinyurl.com/2e7whzq Top right video: John van de Hill meets Joran
But unfortunately - as usual - all Dutch...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 21, 2010, 05:15:08 PM

Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI

oh really? prove it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 05:19:19 PM
The United States has extradition treaties with every country in this hemisphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

See the map at the bottom of the list to see that all members of the Organization of Americas all share extradition with each other.

Maybe this is something that is lost on some of the Dutch?  I dunno.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 05:19:36 PM

Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI

oh really? prove it

It wasn't Joran who said that, I already posted this about it:

John van den Heuvel on tv right now (RTL Boulevard).
He's the crime reporter who interviewed both Anita and Joran last week.
He said he already contacted Anita a couple of weeks ago and she agreed to do an interview last week.
Then he asked her if she could arrange an interview with Joran.
I didn't hear the whole thing, because I was on the phone but...


Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 21, 2010, 05:21:04 PM
yes, but extradition treaties are crime specific.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 05:21:13 PM
The United States has extradition treaties with every country in this hemisphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

See the map at the bottom of the list to see that all members of the Organization of Americas all share extradition with each other.

Maybe this is something that is lost on some of the Dutch?  I dunno.



I was told that Aruba and the US only have an extradition treaty when it comes to drug related cases and not extortion for instance.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Alabamaanna on June 21, 2010, 05:24:13 PM
The United States has extradition treaties with every country in this hemisphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

See the map at the bottom of the list to see that all members of the Organization of Americas all share extradition with each other.

Maybe this is something that is lost on some of the Dutch?  I dunno.





I was told that Aruba and the US only have an extradition treaty when it comes to drug related cases and not extortion for instance.

I don't know either, but I doubt that Joran will be back in Aruba for a very long time, if ever.  If the US ever extradites him, it will be from Peru.  If he lives that long.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 05:25:40 PM
So it is this Dutch reporter John van den Heuvel who thinks Joran will be a free man soon?  Because of procedural errors?

And further he is confident that the FBI "lured" Joran to Peru?  I wonder if he also buys Jorans theory that the FBI needed Peru because it does not have extradition with other countries when in fact it does with every country in the Americas?

Is he really that dense or what is his problem exactly?  Is that the general sentiment in The Netherlands?  I find that hard to believe but wonder why this reporter is saying such things in the first place.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: DPJ on June 21, 2010, 05:26:40 PM
Get the Peruvian government to cave in to what?

Allowing Joran to get away with cold-blooded murder when they have an airtight case against him?
They'll be looking for procedural errors and technicalities.

That will stall procedures and keep Joran in the spotlight and more or less safe.
The Dutch most read paper The Telegraaf seems to have chosen the side that Joran has been set up and one of the most watched TV channels RTL seem to follow that path.

From what I've been told consular and legal aid have been dispatched and Peru will look after the sporter with great care, in order not to suffer harsh criticism from the EU.

I'm afraid this is going to take a very very long time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 21, 2010, 05:29:07 PM

I'm afraid this is going to take a very very long time.

we've already been here 5 years.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 05:31:20 PM
The United States has extradition treaties with every country in this hemisphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

See the map at the bottom of the list to see that all members of the Organization of Americas all share extradition with each other.

Maybe this is something that is lost on some of the Dutch?  I dunno.



I was told that Aruba and the US only have an extradition treaty when it comes to drug related cases and not extortion for instance.

Jo-An

I am not doubting you but ... I am confused.  In the press release from the FBI ... the implication was that Joran fled unexpectedly to Peru while the extortion case was being developed.

Anita claimed that according to Joran's own words ... he fled Aruba to avoid commitment to a mental institute.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 21, 2010, 05:34:19 PM
So it is this Dutch reporter John van den Heuvel who thinks Joran will be a free man soon?  Because of procedural errors?

And further he is confident that the FBI "lured" Joran to Peru?  I wonder if he also buys Jorans theory that the FBI needed Peru because it does not have extradition with other countries when in fact it does with every country in the Americas?

Is he really that dense or what is his problem exactly?  Is that the general sentiment in The Netherlands?  I find that hard to believe but wonder why this reporter is saying such things in the first place.



No, Joran's lawyer thinks Joran will be a free man soon.

John van den Heuvel is the most famous crime reporter in the Netherlands after Peter R de Vries.
He sounded like he didn't want to say too much about it yet, but he and his team investigated the extortion thoroughly, he said.
Maybe he will report on it sometime in the future.

And like I said before, the US and Aruba only have an extradition treaty for drug cases.

And the "general" sentiment in the Netherlands is that they want to see Joran hang for what he did.


I'm off to bed now! Have to get up in 6 hrs... :-(


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 21, 2010, 05:35:12 PM
Janet, he's had days in his cell with nothing to do but try to follow his case and think up new lies. i'll give him credit, the FBI lured me to Peru is a good one.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: DPJ on June 21, 2010, 05:35:21 PM

I'm afraid this is going to take a very very long time.

we've already been here 5 years.
Very very true and I think our time here will be a lot easier than Joran's time in Castro Castro.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JE on June 21, 2010, 05:37:06 PM
http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speld.nl%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2Fjoran-van-der-sloot-bekent-moord-op-kennedy%2F&sl=nl&tl=en

:) the translation sucks but the sarcasm is universal.

Latest news is that the rat that was forced to share a cell with Joranus will sue for emotional damage. Also the rat will sue for an attempt on its life because of nearly suffocating as a result of the toilet being stuffed with wet newspapers.

In all honesty if this whole situation was not as sad as it is it would almost be a hit comedy show. I wonder if there is any sane person in the world that believes JVDS and his change the story trick that by now is getting extremely stale.

The worst punishement the world could unleash on him now would be total radio and tv silence. He will not crack because of legal issues but he will crack if his totaly inasane opinions and stories are no longer voiced to the public by means of the media.

One last thought, why does he even need a lawyer. I don't know of any lawyers that are more accomplished at lying, cheating and deceiving in order to get their clients oof the hook as the client in this case.

Oh well, maybe he will bill his lawyer for tuition





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 05:39:39 PM
Joran was being sought on an INTERPOL warrant after he fled Aruba. 

That has nothing to do with extradition treaties, etc. as they are internationally recognized.

I don't think Peru dives a flying fig what the EU thinks about anything.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 21, 2010, 05:41:28 PM
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return.

He was even able to manipulate Greta S. last time around.
He is a professional. He really gets to females.

I hope PERU is able to break him down into the little man he really is.

 


I am quoting  michelled at BFN ..
Joran is not mentally ill. He is a cunning liar, able to manipulate the majority of the people he encounters, some to the point of no return

I have said it before but I just liked the way SHE said it today.. BUT I must give her credit for it because it is right to do so.
 and as johanna 555 "little girl" at BFN demands it.. I guess he/she lurks here these days.

How do you get into BFN we all got banned Just asking


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 05:45:41 PM
So neither The Netherlands nor Aruba recognize Interpol warrants? 

That's very interesting and surprising to say the least.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 05:45:49 PM
msmarple - nice job commenting on the Peru website  ;-)

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Felcomercio.pe%2Fnoticia%2F498451%2Fjoran-van-der-sloot-se-nego-declarar-ante-juez-crimen-stephany-flores&sl=es&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Yes!  Kudos~


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 21, 2010, 05:46:56 PM
THE STEPHANY FLORES CASE

De Telegraaf Interview - June, 2010


In the interview Joran Van der Sloot claims that he was scared and confused during his interrogation and that he wanted to leave. "If you sign these papers you will be extradited to the Netherlands..." Van der Sloot said he was told by Peruvian authorities. "In my blind panic I signed everything, but I didn't know what it all said."

"I was tricked into it," said Van der Sloot about the killing of Stephany Flores.

"How exactly all this happened, I will tell you later."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5507588/joran_van_der_sloot_to_dutch_reporter.html


THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

A Current Affair Interview - September, 2005


Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that

http://scrux.com/natalee/joranunedited.htm


Gosh, Joran, you aren't used to being on the other end of trickery, eh?
Just another friggin' lie.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 21, 2010, 05:51:48 PM
Should Joran's attorney succeed in getting the confession throw out (or more li8kely the judge decide there is more evidence than needed without it) it does not mean Joran goes free.

It means he will not be detained any longer on the basis of his confession.  So Peru will then detain him based on something else like forensic evidence.

It's really no big deal and certainly not any game cchanger.


CNN June 11, 2010


In an interview with CNN, Canlla defended his department's interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession that he killed Flores was acquired legally.

"The statement was done within all the requirements stipulated by Peruvian law," he said.

But van der Sloot's lawyer, Maximo Alonso Altez Navarro, has told CNN that he plans to ask the judge in the case to strike down van der Sloot's confession, because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

Canlla said Peruvian investigators were still waiting for judicial permission in order to investigate the contents of van der Sloot's computer.

"There has to be authorization from the judge to open the laptop," he said.

But already authorities have gathered significant evidence, Canlla said.

Blood stains found on van der Sloot's clothes match Flores' blood type, he said.

"We found blood stains on the victim's clothes, and we found blood stains on his clothes, which, according to biological testing, they correspond to the victim," he said.

Police said in a statement Thursday that van der Sloot presumably attacked Flores to rob her of the money she had won gambling at a casino. The two met playing poker on May 27 and had several encounters before driving together to the hotel where van der Sloot was staying on May 30.

After killing her, the police statement said, van der Sloot cleaned the room in an attempt to hide evidence of the crime, changed clothes and fled with Flores' money, bank cards and black Jeep.

Police said evidence against van der Sloot includes his confession, forensic data, surveillance videos and fingerprints lifted from the crime scene and Flores' Jeep.

Altez, van der Sloot's lawyer, claims he has found indications that the handling of the evidence was tainted, especially the way the body was handled during the crime scene investigation.

But Canlla said there were no irregularities in the investigation.

Van der Sloot, 22, was arrested in Chile on June 4 and returned to Peru the next day.

Canlla said police will likely accuse van der Sloot of committing homicide, robbery and obstructing justice. The two drivers who took him across the border to Chile will also be accused of obstructing justice, he said.

While van der Sloot was never charged in connection with Holloway's disappearance in 2005, U.S. authorities filed extortion and wire fraud charges against the Dutch man this week.

An Interpol document says van der Sloot faces criminal charges in Alabama because he allegedly tried to extort money from Holloway's mother.

A federal law enforcement agent told CNN that a representative for Natalee Holloway's mother who paid $25,000 for information on the whereabouts of her daughter's remains last month was an undercover FBI agent.

Van der Sloot said he would reveal the location of the body and the circumstances surrounding Holloway's death for $25,000 in cash and asked for $250,000 in total, the document states.

The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in Birmingham arranged for a meeting where van der Sloot was paid $10,000 in cash and another $15,000 in a wire transfer, a source familiar with the case said.

The meeting took place last month, according to the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham.

Interpol documents show that the $15,000 was transferred to a personal bank account in the Netherlands.

It's unclear whether that money paid for van der Sloot's trip to Colombia and to Peru.

In exchange for the money, van der Sloot showed the representative a house where supposedly Holloway's remains were, according to the document. When records showed that the house had not yet been built at the time of her disappearance, van der Sloot admitted that he lied, Interpol said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/criam%20scean/Van-Der-Sloot-2a-1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 05:53:42 PM
I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 05:55:43 PM
Just watched the re-run online and John van den Heuvel had this to say about his visit to Joran:

Joran seemed calm, all the stress of the past few weeks seems to have disappeared.
He's come to terms with the fact that he is now locked up.
There were reports that he felt unsafe and threatenend, but that's not true.
John asked him if he was innocent and Joran didn't say that he was innocent but he doesn't want to go in to that.
John also talked to Joran's lawyer, he said that there were countless procedural errors and he's convinced that Joran will be a free man soon.
He talked to Joran for about 20 mins.
Joran is willing to undergo psychological and psychiatric tests.
His lawyer said that if those test say that Joran is mentally ill, he might be transferred from the prison to a mental hospital.
And earlier I said that it was Joran who said the FBI lured him to Peru, but John says he and his team investigated the whole extortion case and they now think that it was indeed the FBI that lured Joran to Peru.

I find that extremely hard to believe tbh...
And even if it is true, Joran still killed an innocent girl and should be sentenced to xx years for that!
Saw that to Jo An and van den Heuvel seemed quite confident about the legal and procedural errors and Joran's lawyer aiming to use all of them.

Also I got reports of many RTL people on Aruba and legal and consular council on their way to Peru. It seems the gameplan is to keep this as high-profile as it gets and that might just be the thing to get the Peruvian government to cave in.

If Peru caves in to Aruba or the NL when it comes to this monster the world will be outraged.  Joran will be a dead man even faster. 

Monkeys will be outraged ... Beth will be outraged. but ... I do not know about the world.  Did you read Jo-An's post regarding the Dutch.  Did you read the first FBI press release regarding the extortion charge.  The release affords the Arubans appreciation  for their cooperation.  Stephany's father states publicly  that it does not concern him whether Joran is detained in Peru or the Netherlands/Aruba as long as he is detained.

Klaas ... I no longer think that the "world" gets it.  I do not think the "world" comprehends that a corrupt Aruban investigation has an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case and ... the corrupt investigation has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

IMO

Help!  Klaas ... my comment submitted to the last Natalee Holloway FP blog went "poof".

Thanks

Janet

Janet:   

In regards to the FBI press release/live video from Birmingham wherein the Federal Prosecutor thanks Aruba for it's assistance-fear not-as IMO, she was courteous & practicing polite diplomatic protocol.  I wouldn't read anything in to that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 05:59:03 PM
I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!

Also RITA COSBY will be on the Dana Pretzer show at 9pm ET tonight!  There will be others as well but I don't have the entire lineup yet!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JE on June 21, 2010, 05:59:22 PM
THE STEPHANY FLORES CASE


 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that


http://scrux.com/natalee/joranunedited.htm


Gosh, Joran, you aren't used to being on the other end of trickery, eh?
Just another friggin' lie.

This is what pisses me off (the bolded part) As if the world is eagerly awaiting words of wisdom coming from the mouth of that worm, but the great Joranus does not feel the world is ready or worthy to be enlightened by his views.

Reality check: The world and its population don't care about your fantasies. You did the crime you do the time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 06:01:06 PM
Would You Help Your Kid Get Away With Murder?
posted Monday, June 21, 2010


For some parents, blood is thicker than water -- even when it comes to violent crime.



How far would you go to protect your children? What if they were involved in a crime -- and that crime was murder?

Even with the mountain of evidence against Joran van der Sloot -- including video footage and a confession -- his mother, Anita, still believes her son is innocent; that he is, in her words, "not a murderer." In an e-mail to Joran's former girlfriend, Anita wrote, "[Joran] is not the monster they like the world to see .... It stinks and feels like a big trap set up for him."  Before his death earlier this year, Joran's father, Paul, also stood by his son -- some say even going so far as to pay off the authorities after Joran was accused of murdering Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005.

Casey Anthony, the Florida mom accused of murdering her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, can also count on her parents for support. Both George and Cindy Anthony regularly make public appearances defending their daughter's innocence. And they allegedly changed their stories and possibly tampered with evidence ....

This brand of family solidarity is not uncommon. In addition to protesting their child's innocence (whether they really believe it themselves or not), the parents of criminals often offer various levels of help, says Robin Sax, a former Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney. The first kind of assistance, says Sax, involves knowing about a crime but not telling the authorities. The second is refusing to cooperate with the authorities even when they have information about the crime. And then there are the parents who actually lie and cover up the crime to keep their child out of prison. Still, despite all the possibilities, Sax says that many parents actually do the right thing: They turn in their child.

If a member of your immediate family told you they'd killed someone, would you help them cover up their crime -- or would you turn them in to the police?

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/06/van_der_sloot_casey_anthony_mo.php


Anita may change her tune when Joran throws her and dead daddy Paulus under the bus.
If Joran thinks he will get extradited to a Netherland's prison (I don't think that would occur even if he did) for the truth about the cover-up in Aruba, IMO he very well might turn on his mother. The reality that mother isn't coming to his rescue this time could enrage him, especially if she played any part of the cover-up of Natalee's disappearance and death. His thinking will be she has to be punished as well.

Lol-yeah-sort of like maybe he'll wake up and realize it's no fun being the one left 'holding the bag' ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 06:01:22 PM
Joran has not been arrested for extortion.  He is under arrest for the murder of stephany Flores.

What the FBI may or may not have done with regard to the extortion has nothing to do with Joran's pending murder case.

Feeble distraction at best.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 21, 2010, 06:05:54 PM
It is all being brought into the mix Anna to confuse the simple fact as you mentioned.
This is murder.. They have the body and plenty of evidence.
Others are coming out of the woodwork to help Joran. They are doing that by planting massive amounts of information./.some true and some not. All of it for the purpose of negotiation over vast amounts of time.
Again.
Let us see if Peru can hold the line.

jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 06:15:56 PM
Well, if it's just Joran's defense attorney saying all these things, that's totally different!

They say anything!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Kat_Gram on June 21, 2010, 06:16:36 PM
I might need to be medicated after I watch JVM.
I am getting very angry at this stupidness with Joran.
Something seems so familiar about this, doesn't it. The lies his family tells.
Anita said she hadn't seen Joran for quite a while. Then, we find out he was living in her house. Things seemed to get better for him. He was in the casinos every night with his new friend, John Ludwig, didn't seem crazy to John or anyone else. A gambling addiction is not grounds to beat a girl to a unrecognizable pulp in any country. He wasn't deemed mentally ill in May, the story was a voluntary admission if that is even true.
..........
His enablers and story tellers are at it again. He wasn't tortured or beaten and in fact by the standards in Peru, he is being treated quite well in his little cell.  Oh well, guess it worked once for them, the B*(&&^%s, try it again. I feel bloodthirsty and maybe they should just open the door and say GO !  Get out of Peru if you can.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: the big hammer on June 21, 2010, 06:17:25 PM
MURDER, not "Extortion"

There is no doubt there is a dead girl.  And there is no doubt she was murdered.  So the NL media can surmise from half a world away as to the circumstances leading up the murder of the dead girl in Peru.  Perhaps she herself "tricked" the goon into murdering her.

The extortion charge has been made by US authorities.  Once charged, it will be difficult to make that charge go away.  Extortion, in this case and as described, is a difficult standard to reach.  typically, extortion requires the threat of "harm" in order to for the demanded payments to be exacted.  It's quite possible that the threat of witholding information as to the location of Natalee rose to that level: "psychological harm."  And it was evidently he who initiated the plot by first calling and offering, therefore he presents the consciousness of his deviant in-thought scheme and actions.  It was he hoped to "entrap" the Holloway-Twitty family in a web of pain from which he could profit.

Is there a Telegraff reporter who knows more than the obvious here?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: JusticeDawg on June 21, 2010, 06:23:12 PM
I see the prcedures as lame. The Peruvian officials have already addressed this issue and stated that the peruvian law was followed and that the proper representation was afforded to the killar.

I do not believe that we need to waste many brain cells thinking that this will get him anywhere. All they have to do is show the killar the video over the doorway of his hotel room to show that NOONE entered the room before, during or after time when Stephany was there.

That is all they need to prove that he was the murderer and he is the one that must answer to the murder charge.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 06:25:41 PM
Joran's pending murder trial and the extortion charges are two separate issues brought by two separate countires.

One has nothing to do with the other aside from the fact that the murder trial and sentence will be completed before the extortion charges are considered.

It's irrelevant whether anybody "lured" goon to do anything.  He is still ultimately responsible for his murdering actions.

But we all  know defense attorneys are FOS and POS and will say literally anything.

That said, this whole crap of Joran and his "rights" is enough to make the average person want to barf.  Aruba has a terrible human rights record itself and the Dutch has prisoners burn to death at a prison at their airport while no one did a damned things to save them so neither has the right to worry so much about other countries and human rights especially given their colonial history of abuse for centuries.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 06:26:59 PM

Monkeys will be outraged ... Beth will be outraged. but ... I do not know about the world.  Did you read Jo-An's post regarding the Dutch?  Did you read the first FBI press release regarding the extortion charge?  The release affords the Arubans appreciation  for their cooperation.  Stephany's father states publicly  that it does not concern him whether Joran is detained in Peru or the Netherlands/Aruba as long as he is detained.

Klaas ... I no longer think that the "world" gets it.  I do not think the "world" comprehends that a corrupt Aruban investigation has an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case and ... the corrupt investigation has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

IMO

Janet

Janet:  

In regards to the FBI press release/live video from Birmingham wherein the Federal Prosecutor thanks Aruba for it's assistance-fear not-as IMO, she was courteous & practicing polite diplomatic protocol.  I wouldn't read anything in to that.

I hear ya but ... I find the FBI's appeasement of those who have prevented justice from prevailing for five long years is such a betrayal to the memory of an American citizen.

Logic dictates that cooperation with the Aruban enemy ... the Aruban enemy who has had an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from the getgo ... is not about to have a positive outcome.

Janet

+++++

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 184:
 Then FBI agent Bill comes by and delivers the final blow. "The FBI has never received one single document from the Arubans. Not one tape. Nothing." he says sadly. Depite our personal pleas to authorities here and our broadcast appeals to Aruba to let the FBI lend a hand, and regardless of Aruba's public response that it would welcome FBI assistance, the island never let FBI agents in on the investigation. Never passed them the ball. Not even for one minute.


Fixed error as requested by Janet. = San


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 06:27:11 PM
I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!

Also RITA COSBY will be on the Dana Pretzer show at 9pm ET tonight!  There will be others as well but I don't have the entire lineup yet!

Excellent!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 21, 2010, 06:29:07 PM
Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez (21) by the following considerations:
1. by his confession
2. by the dead information
3. by the Certificate of Recognition
4. by the Parking registry of the victim’s vehicle at the Casino “Atlantic City”
5. by the results of the Criminalistic information (Biologic, fingerprinting and others)
 6. by the testimony of the drivers
 7. by the recovery of the stuff and clothes of the foreign citizen in possession of the drivers
8. by the removal of money, bank account cards and vehicle of the victim Peru won't have that problem,9.
 PLUS they have a ton of evidence and incriminating surveillance tapes.
10.Blood Patterns at a Crime Scene Have Become a Familiar Element ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 06:29:16 PM
Joran has not been arrested for extortion.  He is under arrest for the murder of stephany Flores.

What the FBI may or may not have done with regard to the extortion has nothing to do with Joran's pending murder case.

Feeble distraction at best.



Exactly!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 06:30:09 PM
MY LAST POST

agenda to Joran s/b agenda to protect Joran


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 06:30:30 PM
HLN covering it now.

Jinkasaurus says nothing was in the transcript about extradition to anywhere and everything was legit as far as can be determined.

Maybe Joran is trying to play delusional with this?

He fled and even dyed his nasty hair to match Anita's.  Proof he knew what he did was wrong so his mental condition is now irrelevant.

I am beginning to think Joran's attorney is as wacko as Joran.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 06:31:40 PM
"Oh, man!  I hate when I'm tricked into confessing murder!"  Joke on HLN.  Pretty funny, too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
I have been told that HLN, JVM should be a good one tonight.  Don't miss it!

Thanks Klaas........I just hope JVM isn't in one of her screeching modes!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: numbersgirl on June 21, 2010, 06:40:45 PM
Hi Monkeys...this is my first time posting in Natalee's thread and I wanted to share the thoughts I've been having for several days.

IMO, Stephany's family MUST believe their precious daughter did not die in vain.  It's the only thing that is getting them through their days.
To that end, IMO, Mr. Flores will make sure that nobody will besmirch her memory or her good name.  He will not allow Aruba, Anita, media and most of all Joran, to make a mockery of his daughter or his country.  IMO, he's on a mission to return Natalee to her parents as that's the only way he can justify his loss.  I thank God this man seems to have the influence and the wherewithal to make it happen.  I have great faith that Joran's and Anita's actions will only fuel that fire that surely burns within Mr. Flores.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Mon Quixote on June 21, 2010, 06:42:16 PM
Things were crazy busy at the home front this weekend and I haven't had time to check in until now.  I hope all monkeys are well as you and your tireless efforts are never far from my thoughts.  As always, thanks for all you do.

That said, here are a few thoughts I had as I was catching up:

I don't know that anyone could believe that JVDS was lured to Peru as much as they could believe that he ran.  He never seemed to run to anything as much as he seemed to run away - IMHO. 

Alabamanna: I have to agree with you.  Something would have to go terribly, cosmically &  egregiously wrong i order to allow JVDS to step foot no Aruban soil again.  I pray that never happens.  I hope the Peruvians hold him as long as possible.  I can see the ACLU taking issue with numerous “accidents” that could would might happen to him in Alabama

About A's claim that he was "sick in the head" - it’s almost as if he had DID.  (Not sure if anyone brought this up yet or not, but it seemed interesting enough to explore…)  There’s the Dumb One who tries to stage scenes, like exiting the room with empty coffee cups only to get “locked out.”  There is the Cruel One who taunts Natalee’s family.  The Young One who runs when it gets messy.  Romeo is the one who can charm his way into, and out of, numerous situations.  There are others I’m sure I’ve neglected to name but these come readily to mind.  Is it that he’s played another part so long that he got lost somewhere in the mix? 

Whether a psychopath,sociopath, schizophrenic or person afflicted with borderline personality disorder – is this still the best thing his mom could come up with while she was busy reaching?  To say he was possessed would have been more interesting.  Evil spirits and voices in your head telling you to do things are always a good fall back excuse.  Let’s not forget the shamans/spiritualists at the ready to excise the evil demons.  Now that could have been handy….

With kind rgds,
C


Self edit for clarity...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Mon Quixote on June 21, 2010, 06:44:25 PM
PS - Can a mod delete post #1605, I made it better.  I haven't been the same since they treated the insomnia.  I think I was better while I was sleep-deprived....

Muchisimas gracias,
C

Done


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 06:54:41 PM

Monkeys will be outraged ... Beth will be outraged. but ... I do not know about the world.  Did you read Jo-An's post regarding the Dutch?  Did you read the first FBI press release regarding the extortion charge?  The release affords the Arubans appreciation  for their cooperation.  Stephany's father states publicly  that it does not concern him whether Joran is detained in Peru or the Netherlands/Aruba as long as he is detained.

Klaas ... I no longer think that the "world" gets it.  I do not think the "world" comprehends that a corrupt Aruban investigation has an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case and ... the corrupt investigation has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

IMO

Janet

Janet:   

In regards to the FBI press release/live video from Birmingham wherein the Federal Prosecutor thanks Aruba for it's assistance-fear not-as IMO, she was courteous & practicing polite diplomatic protocol.  I wouldn't read anything in to that.

I hear ya but ... I find the FBI's appeasement of those who have prevented justice from prevailing for five long years is such a betrayal to the memory of an American citizen.

Logic dictates that cooperation with the Aruban enemy ... the Aruban enemy who has had an agenda to Joran van der Sloot from the getgo ... is not about to have a positive outcome.

Janet

+++++

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 184:
  Then FBI agent Bill comes by and delivers the final blow. "The FBI has never received one single document from the Arubans. Not one tape. Nothing." he says sadly. Depite our personal pleas to authorities here and our broadcast appeals to Aruba to let the FBI lend a hand, and regardless of Aruba's public response that it would welcome FBI assistance, the island never let FBI agents in on the investigation. Never passed them the ball. Not even for one minute.



Janet-I feel your pain.  But the FBI has no jurisdiction on the "sovereign nation of Aruba" as we Scared Monkeys were all made so painfully aware of five years ago.  Aruba rubbed our [ America's ] collective noses in that fact and gloated all the way!  They relished our [ America's  ] legal helplessness.  We Scared Monkeys were laughed at, rediculed, and basically insulted from the get-go.

Actually, I was surprised that the extortion sting got as far as it did.  As much as I think it morally wrong that Aruba didn't give the FBI free rein immediately after Natalee [ an American citizen ]became missing, I also don't think burning diplomatic bridges is wise or productive, unless it's absolutely necessary..  But, I'm just espousing an onlooker's opinon ... and nothing more.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 07:06:16 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

You know that squad of misfits and goons over at RU were already accusing Stephany of being an agent of the FBI, who set Joran up and she was killed because she was trying to set him up.  You know there are a lot of loony birds in the world and ABC takes their clues from RU and HuffPo.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: justinsmama on June 21, 2010, 07:13:08 PM
Things were crazy busy at the home front this weekend and I haven't had time to check in until now.  I hope all monkeys are well as you and your tireless efforts are never far from my thoughts.  As always, thanks for all you do.

That said, here are a few thoughts I had as I was catching up:

I don't know that anyone could believe that JVDS was lured to Peru as much as they could believe that he ran.  He never seemed to run to anything as much as he seemed to run away - IMHO. 

Alabamanna: I have to agree with you.  Something would have to go terribly, cosmically &  egregiously wrong i order to allow JVDS to step foot no Aruban soil again.  I pray that never happens.  I hope the Peruvians hold him as long as possible.  I can see the ACLU taking issue with numerous “accidents” that could would might happen to him in Alabama

About A's claim that he was "sick in the head" - it’s almost as if he had DID.  (Not sure if anyone brought this up yet or not, but it seemed interesting enough to explore…)  There’s the Dumb One who tries to stage scenes, like exiting the room with empty coffee cups only to get “locked out.”  There is the Cruel One who taunts Natalee’s family.  The Young One who runs when it gets messy.  Romeo is the one who can charm his way into, and out of, numerous situations.  There are others I’m sure I’ve neglected to name but these come readily to mind.  Is it that he’s played another part so long that he got lost somewhere in the mix? 

Whether a psychopath,sociopath, schizophrenic or person afflicted with borderline personality disorder – is this still the best thing his mom could come up with while she was busy reaching?  To say he was possessed would have been more interesting.  Evil spirits and voices in your head telling you to do things are always a good fall back excuse.  Let’s not forget the shamans/spiritualists at the ready to excise the evil demons.  Now that could have been handy….

With kind rgds,
C


Self edit for clarity...

Every aspect of Joran results in only one diagnosis- Antisocial Personality Disorder. Not a defense. I called this within weeks of Natalee's disappearance, and time has only strengthened it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 07:18:18 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 07:18:41 PM
WooHoo - GO TJ!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 07:19:02 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!

I LOVE IT!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 21, 2010, 07:19:03 PM
GO TJ!!!  on JVM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 07:21:43 PM
Finally someone with the balls to out Renfro for the two faced witch she is!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 07:21:47 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!

I LOVE IT!

He should have read Anita's too! lol

I hope they're all going through his FB......

The truth about these people must come out!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 07:22:57 PM
Joran told the Telegraaf reporter that he was lured to Peru by the FBI in order to be extradited to the USA so he could be arrested there. Because Peru has an extradition treaty with the US and Aruba doesn't, at least not when it comes to extortion.
Apparently this is written in tomorrow's paper.



he's BLAMING the FBI for being in PERU????? WTF??? I hate this kid! I guess they told him to kill Stefany too huh?

Yeah, it's unbelievable the stuff this guy comes up with!!!



Joran's email to John Ludwick:

May 29:
"Happy birthday man I hope you had a good day & remember how imortant family & friends are.  I won't bother you today but send me some money through Western Union tomorrow.  The only information of mine you is my name Joran van der Sloot, the country Peru & the city Lima.  I need this man for my ticket back so di it for me.  Take care & enjoy your b-day."

May 26:
Hey,
Just so you know I will be coming back to Aruba on Sunday."

May 10:
"I am going to Peru to live their (sic) until I need to go back to Thailand & take care of my shop.  I am done with Aruba.  Take care."


----

Looks like he wanted to call Peru home! Well, he got his wish. :)

The only thing that lured Joran to Peru was a poker table, and the opportunity to steal someones $$$$$.

Didn't he tell his demon mother he was "invited" to a tournament in Peru? Of course mother sloot could be lying about the "love note" Joran left for her. They both lie as naturally as we breath air.



It is always hard to know whether Anita is telling the truth or not.  Joran got his fable skills from that frizzy-haired pig woman.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 21, 2010, 07:28:25 PM
Hi Monkeys...this is my first time posting in Natalee's thread and I wanted to share the thoughts I've been having for several days.

IMO, Stephany's family MUST believe their precious daughter did not die in vain.  It's the only thing that is getting them through their days.
To that end, IMO, Mr. Flores will make sure that nobody will besmirch her memory or her good name.  He will not allow Aruba, Anita, media and most of all Joran, to make a mockery of his daughter or his country.  IMO, he's on a mission to return Natalee to her parents as that's the only way he can justify his loss.  I thank God this man seems to have the influence and the wherewithal to make it happen.  I have great faith that Joran's and Anita's actions will only fuel that fire that surely burns within Mr. Flores.
Welcome.
I think Joran's attorney is a dead man walking.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 21, 2010, 07:34:16 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!

I LOVE IT!
Which was...???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 21, 2010, 07:39:49 PM
Should Joran's attorney succeed in getting the confession throw out (or more li8kely the judge decide there is more evidence than needed without it) it does not mean Joran goes free.

It means he will not be detained any longer on the basis of his confession.  So Peru will then detain him based on something else like forensic evidence.

It's really no big deal and certainly not any game cchanger.


CNN June 11, 2010


In an interview with CNN, Canlla defended his department's interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession that he killed Flores was acquired legally.

"The statement was done within all the requirements stipulated by Peruvian law," he said.

But van der Sloot's lawyer, Maximo Alonso Altez Navarro, has told CNN that he plans to ask the judge in the case to strike down van der Sloot's confession, because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

Canlla said Peruvian investigators were still waiting for judicial permission in order to investigate the contents of van der Sloot's computer.

"There has to be authorization from the judge to open the laptop," he said.

But already authorities have gathered significant evidence, Canlla said.

Blood stains found on van der Sloot's clothes match Flores' blood type, he said.

"We found blood stains on the victim's clothes, and we found blood stains on his clothes, which, according to biological testing, they correspond to the victim," he said.

Police said in a statement Thursday that van der Sloot presumably attacked Flores to rob her of the money she had won gambling at a casino. The two met playing poker on May 27 and had several encounters before driving together to the hotel where van der Sloot was staying on May 30.

After killing her, the police statement said, van der Sloot cleaned the room in an attempt to hide evidence of the crime, changed clothes and fled with Flores' money, bank cards and black Jeep.

Police said evidence against van der Sloot includes his confession, forensic data, surveillance videos and fingerprints lifted from the crime scene and Flores' Jeep.

Altez, van der Sloot's lawyer, claims he has found indications that the handling of the evidence was tainted, especially the way the body was handled during the crime scene investigation.

But Canlla said there were no irregularities in the investigation.

Van der Sloot, 22, was arrested in Chile on June 4 and returned to Peru the next day.

Canlla said police will likely accuse van der Sloot of committing homicide, robbery and obstructing justice. The two drivers who took him across the border to Chile will also be accused of obstructing justice, he said.

While van der Sloot was never charged in connection with Holloway's disappearance in 2005, U.S. authorities filed extortion and wire fraud charges against the Dutch man this week.

An Interpol document says van der Sloot faces criminal charges in Alabama because he allegedly tried to extort money from Holloway's mother.

A federal law enforcement agent told CNN that a representative for Natalee Holloway's mother who paid $25,000 for information on the whereabouts of her daughter's remains last month was an undercover FBI agent.

Van der Sloot said he would reveal the location of the body and the circumstances surrounding Holloway's death for $25,000 in cash and asked for $250,000 in total, the document states.

The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in Birmingham arranged for a meeting where van der Sloot was paid $10,000 in cash and another $15,000 in a wire transfer, a source familiar with the case said.

The meeting took place last month, according to the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham.

Interpol documents show that the $15,000 was transferred to a personal bank account in the Netherlands.

It's unclear whether that money paid for van der Sloot's trip to Colombia and to Peru.

In exchange for the money, van der Sloot showed the representative a house where supposedly Holloway's remains were, according to the document. When records showed that the house had not yet been built at the time of her disappearance, van der Sloot admitted that he lied, Interpol said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/criam%20scean/Van-Der-Sloot-2a-1.jpg)

Blonde..thank you..this is the voice of reason...Joran's DNA was found..and her blood matched by DNA was found on Joran's clothes.  Case closed..no one else entered or exited that room but Joran.  Rather he confessed or not..the evidence is there.  End of story.

Rather or not he wants to discuss it makes no difference at this point..they have the evidence..it is DNA. 

And wow..what happened to the new lawyer he was suppoed to get.saw the evidence and said no thank you?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 07:41:15 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!

I LOVE IT!
Which was...???

From Joran's facebook:

May 14, 2010 – Anita and Renfro post to Joran.

On Joran's FB
Anita Hugen
I hope the future will bring you, wisdom, trust,honesty, love and good friends.
May 14 at 10:26am

Julia Renfro
Be Grateful... for those who love you, for those who support you, for everything -- good and the bad. Be Grateful, life will come full circle even when the clouds are so dark, there is always a rainbow to come.
Sunday at 5:05pm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 21, 2010, 07:41:48 PM
Should Joran's attorney succeed in getting the confession throw out (or more li8kely the judge decide there is more evidence than needed without it) it does not mean Joran goes free.

It means he will not be detained any longer on the basis of his confession.  So Peru will then detain him based on something else like forensic evidence.

It's really no big deal and certainly not any game cchanger.


CNN June 11, 2010


In an interview with CNN, Canlla defended his department's interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession that he killed Flores was acquired legally.

"The statement was done within all the requirements stipulated by Peruvian law," he said.

But van der Sloot's lawyer, Maximo Alonso Altez Navarro, has told CNN that he plans to ask the judge in the case to strike down van der Sloot's confession, because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

Canlla said Peruvian investigators were still waiting for judicial permission in order to investigate the contents of van der Sloot's computer.

"There has to be authorization from the judge to open the laptop," he said.

But already authorities have gathered significant evidence, Canlla said.

Blood stains found on van der Sloot's clothes match Flores' blood type, he said.

"We found blood stains on the victim's clothes, and we found blood stains on his clothes, which, according to biological testing, they correspond to the victim," he said.

Police said in a statement Thursday that van der Sloot presumably attacked Flores to rob her of the money she had won gambling at a casino. The two met playing poker on May 27 and had several encounters before driving together to the hotel where van der Sloot was staying on May 30.

After killing her, the police statement said, van der Sloot cleaned the room in an attempt to hide evidence of the crime, changed clothes and fled with Flores' money, bank cards and black Jeep.

Police said evidence against van der Sloot includes his confession, forensic data, surveillance videos and fingerprints lifted from the crime scene and Flores' Jeep.

Altez, van der Sloot's lawyer, claims he has found indications that the handling of the evidence was tainted, especially the way the body was handled during the crime scene investigation.

But Canlla said there were no irregularities in the investigation.

Van der Sloot, 22, was arrested in Chile on June 4 and returned to Peru the next day.

Canlla said police will likely accuse van der Sloot of committing homicide, robbery and obstructing justice. The two drivers who took him across the border to Chile will also be accused of obstructing justice, he said.

While van der Sloot was never charged in connection with Holloway's disappearance in 2005, U.S. authorities filed extortion and wire fraud charges against the Dutch man this week.

An Interpol document says van der Sloot faces criminal charges in Alabama because he allegedly tried to extort money from Holloway's mother.

A federal law enforcement agent told CNN that a representative for Natalee Holloway's mother who paid $25,000 for information on the whereabouts of her daughter's remains last month was an undercover FBI agent.

Van der Sloot said he would reveal the location of the body and the circumstances surrounding Holloway's death for $25,000 in cash and asked for $250,000 in total, the document states.

The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in Birmingham arranged for a meeting where van der Sloot was paid $10,000 in cash and another $15,000 in a wire transfer, a source familiar with the case said.

The meeting took place last month, according to the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham.

Interpol documents show that the $15,000 was transferred to a personal bank account in the Netherlands.

It's unclear whether that money paid for van der Sloot's trip to Colombia and to Peru.

In exchange for the money, van der Sloot showed the representative a house where supposedly Holloway's remains were, according to the document. When records showed that the house had not yet been built at the time of her disappearance, van der Sloot admitted that he lied, Interpol said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/criam%20scean/Van-Der-Sloot-2a-1.jpg)

Blonde..thank you..this is the voice of reason...Joran's DNA was found..and her blood matched by DNA was found on Joran's clothes.  Case closed..no one else entered or exited that room but Joran.  Rather he confessed or not..the evidence is there.  End of story.

Rather or not he wants to discuss it makes no difference at this point..they have the evidence..it is DNA. 

And wow..what happened to the new lawyer he was suppoed to get.saw the evidence and said no thank you?
Interesting point from RU;
Didn't Joran say in his confession, when they asked him if he wanted to add or change anything, "I want to read everything." ...so how did they rush him to sign it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 21, 2010, 07:43:25 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!

I LOVE IT!
Which was...???

From Joran's facebook:

May 14, 2010 – Anita and Renfro post to Joran.

On Joran's FB
Anita Hugen
I hope the future will bring you, wisdom, trust,honesty, love and good friends.
May 14 at 10:26am

Julia Renfro
Be Grateful... for those who love you, for those who support you, for everything -- good and the bad. Be Grateful, life will come full circle even when the clouds are so dark, there is always a rainbow to come.
Sunday at 5:05pm

Aw, that hokey statement. Thanks, I thought she was posting more BS there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: jjayinthemorning on June 21, 2010, 07:44:55 PM
Did we really expect Joran to do anything by deny, lie and retract his statements? It's a constant cycle with him.

When will the judges make a decision?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 07:45:09 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!

I LOVE IT!
Which was...???

From Joran's facebook:

May 14, 2010 – Anita and Renfro post to Joran.

On Joran's FB
Anita Hugen
I hope the future will bring you, wisdom, trust,honesty, love and good friends.
May 14 at 10:26am

Julia Renfro
Be Grateful... for those who love you, for those who support you, for everything -- good and the bad. Be Grateful, life will come full circle even when the clouds are so dark, there is always a rainbow to come.
Sunday at 5:05pm


did she delete her profile?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 21, 2010, 07:45:16 PM
Should Joran's attorney succeed in getting the confession throw out (or more li8kely the judge decide there is more evidence than needed without it) it does not mean Joran goes free.

It means he will not be detained any longer on the basis of his confession.  So Peru will then detain him based on something else like forensic evidence.

It's really no big deal and certainly not any game cchanger.


CNN June 11, 2010


In an interview with CNN, Canlla defended his department's interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession that he killed Flores was acquired legally.

"The statement was done within all the requirements stipulated by Peruvian law," he said.

But van der Sloot's lawyer, Maximo Alonso Altez Navarro, has told CNN that he plans to ask the judge in the case to strike down van der Sloot's confession, because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

Canlla said Peruvian investigators were still waiting for judicial permission in order to investigate the contents of van der Sloot's computer.

"There has to be authorization from the judge to open the laptop," he said.

But already authorities have gathered significant evidence, Canlla said.

Blood stains found on van der Sloot's clothes match Flores' blood type, he said.

"We found blood stains on the victim's clothes, and we found blood stains on his clothes, which, according to biological testing, they correspond to the victim," he said.

Police said in a statement Thursday that van der Sloot presumably attacked Flores to rob her of the money she had won gambling at a casino. The two met playing poker on May 27 and had several encounters before driving together to the hotel where van der Sloot was staying on May 30.

After killing her, the police statement said, van der Sloot cleaned the room in an attempt to hide evidence of the crime, changed clothes and fled with Flores' money, bank cards and black Jeep.

Police said evidence against van der Sloot includes his confession, forensic data, surveillance videos and fingerprints lifted from the crime scene and Flores' Jeep.

Altez, van der Sloot's lawyer, claims he has found indications that the handling of the evidence was tainted, especially the way the body was handled during the crime scene investigation.

But Canlla said there were no irregularities in the investigation.

Van der Sloot, 22, was arrested in Chile on June 4 and returned to Peru the next day.

Canlla said police will likely accuse van der Sloot of committing homicide, robbery and obstructing justice. The two drivers who took him across the border to Chile will also be accused of obstructing justice, he said.

While van der Sloot was never charged in connection with Holloway's disappearance in 2005, U.S. authorities filed extortion and wire fraud charges against the Dutch man this week.

An Interpol document says van der Sloot faces criminal charges in Alabama because he allegedly tried to extort money from Holloway's mother.

A federal law enforcement agent told CNN that a representative for Natalee Holloway's mother who paid $25,000 for information on the whereabouts of her daughter's remains last month was an undercover FBI agent.

Van der Sloot said he would reveal the location of the body and the circumstances surrounding Holloway's death for $25,000 in cash and asked for $250,000 in total, the document states.

The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in Birmingham arranged for a meeting where van der Sloot was paid $10,000 in cash and another $15,000 in a wire transfer, a source familiar with the case said.

The meeting took place last month, according to the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham.

Interpol documents show that the $15,000 was transferred to a personal bank account in the Netherlands.

It's unclear whether that money paid for van der Sloot's trip to Colombia and to Peru.

In exchange for the money, van der Sloot showed the representative a house where supposedly Holloway's remains were, according to the document. When records showed that the house had not yet been built at the time of her disappearance, van der Sloot admitted that he lied, Interpol said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/criam%20scean/Van-Der-Sloot-2a-1.jpg)

Blonde..thank you..this is the voice of reason...Joran's DNA was found..and her blood matched by DNA was found on Joran's clothes.  Case closed..no one else entered or exited that room but Joran.  Rather he confessed or not..the evidence is there.  End of story.

Rather or not he wants to discuss it makes no difference at this point..they have the evidence..it is DNA. 

And wow..what happened to the new lawyer he was suppoed to get.saw the evidence and said no thank you?
"I hope the future will bring you, wisdom, trust,honesty, love and good friends."
I guess now that would be the rats.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 07:48:39 PM
TJ just read Julia's FB message! lmao...BUSTED!

I LOVE IT!
Which was...???

From Joran's facebook:

May 14, 2010 – Anita and Renfro post to Joran.

On Joran's FB
Anita Hugen
I hope the future will bring you, wisdom, trust,honesty, love and good friends.
May 14 at 10:26am

Julia Renfro
Be Grateful... for those who love you, for those who support you, for everything -- good and the bad. Be Grateful, life will come full circle even when the clouds are so dark, there is always a rainbow to come.
Sunday at 5:05pm


did she delete her profile?

I don't think any of the profiles have been deleted but I believe they are all set to private.  Unfortunately for them Joran has many friends that are also enemies.  ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 07:50:39 PM
I can't find Renhoe


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 07:58:30 PM
The evidence should stand alone in the quest by the Pervian prosecutor for a conviction in the Stephany Flores case.  Nevertheless ... when the status of this case is considered ... I can only assume that all the i's were dotted and t's were crossed when obtaining Joran's confession.

Janet

++++++

Van der Sloot charged with murder in PeruFrom Mayra Cuevas , CNN
June 17, 2010 9:28 p.m. EDT


Van der Sloot's lawyer, Maximo Alonso Altez Navarro, has said he plans to ask the judge in the case to strike down van der Sloot's confession because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

Canlla defended his department's interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession was acquired legally.

"The statement was done within all the requirements stipulated by Peruvian law," he said.

Canlla said investigators were still waiting for judicial permission in order to investigate the contents of van der Sloot's computer.

But authorities have gathered significant evidence, he said.

Bloodstains found on van der Sloot's clothes match Flores' blood type, he said.

"We found bloodstains on the victim's clothes, and we found bloodstains on his clothes, which, according to biological testing, they correspond to the victim," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3


Peru police give Joran van der Sloot case to prosecutors
Updated 6/10/2010 6:00 PM


The case against the young Dutchman, who also remains the lone suspect in the Natalee Holloway missing-teenager case, goes to prosecutors Thursday so they can file formal charges, said the official, Gen. Cesar Guardia.

"We've practically closed the case," he told the Associated Press. "He's confessed with a wealth of details that have been corroborated through criminal investigative rigor."

Guardia denied any suggestion that Van der Sloot's confession was forced. He said a translator assigned by the Dutch Embassy was present, as was a state-appointed defense attorney.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-06-10-vandersloot-peru-case_N.htm



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 07:58:43 PM
I can't find Renhoe

Renfro's facebook is set to private, that's why you can't find her.  It's been private for a while now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 21, 2010, 07:59:55 PM
It is all being brought into the mix Anna to confuse the simple fact as you mentioned.
This is murder.. They have the body and plenty of evidence.
Others are coming out of the woodwork to help Joran. They are doing that by planting massive amounts of information./.some true and some not. All of it for the purpose of negotiation over vast amounts of time.
Again.
Let us see if Peru can hold the line.

jmho



I agree Edward..put Peru is the exception to the case.  They don't have a jury of 12 , they have 3 judges when push comes to shove.  The current judge is there to fact find and get all the info on the case.

When this goes to trial..media be damned..it isn't open..and it is 3 judges. 

Joran is still a dead man walking.  I am sure he is adjusting to his current life...he was never able to support himself..and he has made a friend.  That friend would turn on him in a NY minute...just as Joran would do to him.  He is finally in the company of someone as dismissive of other peoples's lives as he is..watch your back Joran...the Clown..the Bobo..he is older and far wiser then you..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 08:00:48 PM
Finally someone with the balls to out Renfro for the two faced witch she is!

Klaas, we need to make a card to send TJ, congratulatory card.  I would like to see NG tangle with batface Julia 'Fro.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 08:01:14 PM
I can't find Renhoe

Renfro's facebook is set to private, that's why you can't find her.  It's been private for a while now.

Thanks Klass!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Mon Quixote on June 21, 2010, 08:05:02 PM
Can someone direct me to an acronym thread?  I've tried the search function and now I'm just frustrated.  I'm wondering what Ru and BFM (???) stand for.  I'm sorry if this has been asked before.

Brgds,
C


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 08:11:55 PM
Anita's facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=582598335&ref=sgm (http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=582598335&ref=sgm)

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v230/733/91/n582598335_7637.jpg)

Julia's facebook:


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm)

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v229/301/4/n1588057630_1515.jpg)

Joran's facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/AAStuntSoHardKK?ref=sgm (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/AAStuntSoHardKK?ref=sgm)
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22941/154/76/n503980832_3475.jpg)

John Ludwick's facebook
:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273&ref=ts (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273&ref=ts)

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs324.snc4/41432_100000463930273_412_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 08:12:47 PM
Can someone direct me to an acronym thread?  I've tried the search function and now I'm just frustrated.  I'm wondering what Ru and BFM (???) stand for.  I'm sorry if this has been asked before.

Brgds,
C

There is no acronym thread.

BFN - Blogs For Natalee
RU = RefugeesUnleashed



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 08:16:37 PM
Don't miss the Dana Pretzer show tonight at 9pm ET!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Pretzer062110.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Mon Quixote on June 21, 2010, 08:16:44 PM
Can someone direct me to an acronym thread?  I've tried the search function and now I'm just frustrated.  I'm wondering what Ru and BFM (???) stand for.  I'm sorry if this has been asked before.

Brgds,
C

There is no acronym thread.

BFN - Blogs For Natalee
RU = RefugeesUnleashed



TY very much.  Leaving work, headed home to hug my kids.  I know how lucky I am that I can do that and my heart breaks for those that can't.  Thank you all for posting links and actual quotes, I can't always get them here at work and I appreciate that I can keep up when I can't access they hyperlinks.  You guys rock!!!!

I bid you all a good evening.

With warm rgds,
C


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 08:17:26 PM
Prosecution documents are being translated right now according to jinkasaurus....she's talking from Peru on Nancy Grace show.

She's saying (1 issue that has been transcribed) in the transcripts of Joran's confession, there is nothing about any "promise" made to Joran to extradite him to the Netherlands if he confessed to murdering Stephany.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blue Moon on June 21, 2010, 08:24:43 PM
Anita's facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=582598335&ref=sgm (http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=582598335&ref=sgm)

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v230/733/91/n582598335_7637.jpg)

Julia's facebook:


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm)

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v229/301/4/n1588057630_1515.jpg)

Joran's facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/AAStuntSoHardKK?ref=sgm (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/AAStuntSoHardKK?ref=sgm)
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22941/154/76/n503980832_3475.jpg)

John Ludwick's facebook
:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273&ref=ts (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&ref=sgm#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273&ref=ts)

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs324.snc4/41432_100000463930273_412_n.jpg)

Is that little girl Anita or is the older woman Anita?   

I just caught up for the day.  All I can say is "UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH".  Must not get my BP up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 21, 2010, 08:26:45 PM
Jinky going over psych eval of Urine from Peru on NG.  Being translated now


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 08:27:00 PM
psych exam report....low tolerance to frustation
emotionally immature
domination over opposite sex
no respect for women


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 08:27:01 PM
Psychological examination is out and boy do they have Joran down to a T


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 08:30:04 PM
I hope NG repeats the psych exam report......I couldn't get all of the results


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 08:30:07 PM
Psychological examination is out and boy do they have Joran down to a T

Yeah, I have always said he hates women because he hates Anita.  How could you like her if that was your mother?  She is cold, she lies and she is so self-absorbed that a child in her custody would have no chance to grow up normally. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 08:30:12 PM
Psychological examination is out and boy do they have Joran down to a T

wow they sure have him pegged!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 08:32:01 PM
What a POS Anita and Joran both are.  He hung over the coffin of his father and swore it was his fault.  Now, that is really a way to show respect and redeem himself by going out and killing a young woman who he has robbed.  Man, I bet old Paulus is turning over in the frying pan.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 21, 2010, 08:32:28 PM
It is all being brought into the mix Anna to confuse the simple fact as you mentioned.
This is murder.. They have the body and plenty of evidence.
Others are coming out of the woodwork to help Joran. They are doing that by planting massive amounts of information./.some true and some not. All of it for the purpose of negotiation over vast amounts of time.
Again.
Let us see if Peru can hold the line.

jmho


I wonder if there will be a Shango v2.0 soon to help spread the misinformation


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 08:33:30 PM
Amphetamines found in Stephany's drug screen


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 21, 2010, 08:34:52 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 08:36:12 PM
Good news is the NG transcripts are up pretty quickly


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 08:37:23 PM
I know what you mean Blue Moon...my BP is up too!  UGGGHHHH

The confession wasn't the whole truth as usual anyway.  How many times did he say he hit her?  Once with the elbow?  What did the autopsy say?  10 strong punches to the face iirc, a broken neck, bruises all over her!  That animal always minimizes his crime and tries to blame the victim for his uncontrollable rage!

I hope they do throw the confession out, charge him with the evidence they have and throw that POS into General Population where he belongs!  Like someone else mentioned earlier it makes my blood boil to know he's sitting in there reading the daily newspaper, watching the world cup with another assassin, and picking and choosing which media he'll speak to!  Give me a freaking break! 

Psychological findings...per jinkasaurus

(not exact)

Low tolerance to frustration
if you contradict him,  he exhibits challenging attitude
emotionally inmature
small criticism makes him out of control, and he is likely to harm others
domination over the opposite sex
does not value the female role


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 08:40:08 PM
FROM NANCY GRACE

A few results from the psychological examination given to Joran:

It is from psychological testing done to Joran. "Low tolerance towards frustration.  Does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him.  It generates in him a challenging attitude.  Emotionally immature which creates in him strong changes in his behavior which goes from a simple criticism to becoming out of control.  Which can move him to commit acts against the life of another.  He reflects certain domination over the opposite sex.  He doesn't value the female role."

That is just some conclusions from Joran Van der Sloot's psychological evaluation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 08:41:07 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

IMO, no

Amphetamines could be prescription diet pills, in other words an "upper".  She may have been taking them to stay awake, or alert to be up all night.

I think roofies are considered a "downer".

But with the time it took to find her body, I don't know if the roofie would still show up!

IMO, because she had amphetamine in her system, the roofie may not have had the full effect since I think they have basically the opposite effect on the system.  In other words they would work against each other if I understand what each does correctly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 21, 2010, 08:41:26 PM
My personal take on today is..all the I didn't mean to confess.etc, etc, doesn't hold water in a PERU COURT.   

It may make him feel better and his counsel..but at the end of the day..they have a confession, they have her DNA ..in the form of blood on his shirt, they have video of his trying to produce an alabi..good luck with that..joran we also see you entering the room again.   We do not see anyone else entering or exiting..we do not find anyone else's DNA but yours and Stephany's.

Her car is missing her money..which her father said she kept in the glove box..it is missing her WI, it is missing other items you sold or batered.  She is missing her necklace, bracelet, earrings and bank and credit cards.

You were running from US authoritys with $25,000 ...where is that..we haven't heard but it either went to casino debts in the days prior to Stephany's murder..which wouldn't be hard to trace..or to drug dealers and past debts you owed.  Either way..you are screwed dude..your days are numbered. 

Peru has the upper hand now..and I believe in their system totally.  If our jails were more like theirs..we would have far less crime. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 21, 2010, 08:41:27 PM

June 21, 2010

Official report from events of Judge Morales with defendant, Joran van der Sloot
   
Van der Sloot refused to give a preliminary statement
Defendant requests that, previously, habeas corpus is resolved

•Decision does not effect the criminal proceedings will continue with other scheduled proceedings

•The statement is a means of proof which will be evaluated by the judge to determine the responsibility of the accused or not.
Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot refused this morning to make a preliminary statement before the magistrate of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima, Dr. Carlos Morales Cordova, who processes it as an alleged perpetrator of the crime of simple murder and theft to the detriment of Stephany Flores Ramírez.

The Dutchman claimed that citizens will not declare it is pending the writ of habeas corpus filed in order to be declared invalid statements surrendered to the police because, he says, he breached their rights of defense.

 As director of instruction and with the favorable opinion of the Deputy Prosecutor Jesus Ascencio Solis, Dr. Córdova Morales suspended the diligence to which this is carried out at the time, according to the development of the judicial investigation and decision of the accused to testify .

THE PROCESS CONTINUES

 The judge explained that the preliminary hearing in the combination of evidence to gather during the judicial investigation in due course, will be evaluated to determine the innocence or degree of responsibility of the accused.

 Meanwhile, others reported that the notes provided by his trial continue according to schedule to meet the target of the investigation stage: establishment of the facts and accountability.

To this end, the instructive to the other defendants, brothers John Oswald and John Williams Aparcana Pisconte, and Carlos Alberto Uribe parapet, will be held on 23, 24 and 25 June respectively. En todos los casos, a las 14:30 horas. In all cases, at 14:30.

The above defendants are processed with a subpoena restricted by failure to report crime. They are accused of having facilitated the transportation of Van der Sloot Nazca to Tacna despite allegedly knew about the crime that he would have incurred.

 Dr. Córdova Morales also ordered the implementation of psychological and psychiatric expertise to the principal defendant, and the necropsy ratificaciónde and all expert reports made in the preliminary stage (fingerprint, forensic psychology, criminal roadworthiness, toxicological, etc.), the specialists to explain the reasons for their opinions.

 It was reported that the reconstruction of the events will be scheduled in due course, depending on progress of the criminal proceedings.

. Dr. Morales Cordova finally called on the press to report responsibly and truthfully, in order not to affect the development process.

 Lima, June 21, 2010
 OFFICE OF MEDIA AND IMAGE ISNTITUCIONAL

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.pj.gob.pe/noticias/noticias.asp%3Fcodigo%3D16692%26opcion%3Ddetalle&ei=GGweTIqJBIKC8gbasp2rDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CDsQ7gEwBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJuzgado%2BPenal%2Bde%2BLima,%2BCarlos%2BMorales%2BC%25C3%25B3rdova%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Scatty on June 21, 2010, 08:43:56 PM
What a POS Anita and Joran both are.  He hung over the coffin of his father and swore it was his fault.  Now, that is really a way to show respect and redeem himself by going out and killing a young woman who he has robbed.  Man, I bet old Paulus is turning over in the frying pan.

Typical narcissist. He had to make his father's funeral all about him.
On NG they are talking about how his attorney should have played it in court today. But when an attorney has Joran as a client, Van der Sloot's ego is in charge. No one can tell that arrogant jerk what he should do. Thank goodness.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 08:45:26 PM
Anita van der Sloot is sick in the head too!

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 08:46:18 PM
Anita van der Sloot is sick in the head too!

JMO

And SHOULD NOT BE A SCHOOL TEACHER!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 08:46:48 PM
Don't miss the Dana Pretzer show tonight at 9pm ET!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Pretzer062110.jpg)


Starts in 10 minutes.  Click on the link below:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 21, 2010, 08:47:31 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

IMO, no

Amphetamines could be prescription diet pills, in other words an "upper".  She may have been taking them to stay awake, or alert to be up all night.

I think roofies are considered a "downer".

But with the time it took to find her body, I don't know if the roofie would still show up!

IMO, because she had amphetamine in her system, the roofie may not have had the full effect since I think they have basically the opposite effect on the system.  In other words they would work against each other if I understand what each does correctly.

Hmmm, so I wonder if she fought back hard because of the effect of those and that helps to account for her horrific wounds.  They did mention on NG that it may be she took the uppers to stay up all night for poker


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 08:48:02 PM
Anita van der Sloot is sick in the head too!

JMO

I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nychic on June 21, 2010, 08:50:51 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

Amphetamines would likely be a diet pill like phentermine - the wrappers found in the car were reported as GHB the date rape drug - 2 very different drugs as the first will speed up the heart rate (and she probably took them to stay up all night) and the other will make a person very tired and has an effect on your memory of what happened while under the influence (what I believe was given to Natalee but Natalee had a reaction to it - imo she vomited but it went unnoticed by the 3 pigs while they raped her and that is "the bad thing that happened")


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 08:51:04 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

IMO, no

Amphetamines could be prescription diet pills, in other words an "upper".  She may have been taking them to stay awake, or alert to be up all night.

I think roofies are considered a "downer".

But with the time it took to find her body, I don't know if the roofie would still show up!

IMO, because she had amphetamine in her system, the roofie may not have had the full effect since I think they have basically the opposite effect on the system.  In other words they would work against each other if I understand what each does correctly.

Hmmm, so I wonder if she fought back hard because of the effect of those and that helps to account for her horrific wounds.  They did mention on NG that it may be she took the uppers to stay up all night for poker

Amphetamines are also used as performance enhancers which probably allowed her to defend and fight off Joran with more force.....but unfortunately she was no match for the monster considering his size and strength.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 08:51:58 PM
Anita van der Sloot is sick in the head too!

JMO

I agree.

We have all been saying that vicious old lying slop bag should have been locked away in a mental hospital for years. although, some use different lingo... the song remains the same.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 21, 2010, 08:53:39 PM
Who or what is Jinkosaurus?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 08:55:06 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

IMO, no

Amphetamines could be prescription diet pills, in other words an "upper".  She may have been taking them to stay awake, or alert to be up all night.

I think roofies are considered a "downer".

But with the time it took to find her body, I don't know if the roofie would still show up!

IMO, because she had amphetamine in her system, the roofie may not have had the full effect since I think they have basically the opposite effect on the system.  In other words they would work against each other if I understand what each does correctly.

Hmmm, so I wonder if she fought back hard because of the effect of those and that helps to account for her horrific wounds.  They did mention on NG that it may be she took the uppers to stay up all night for poker

I think her father did say in the beginning that she fought for her life (evidence under her fingernails), that would have probably just made his rage worse.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 08:55:42 PM
Who or what is Jinkosaurus?

Jean Casarez, a reporter for HLN (In Sessions).  But the way NG says it it comes out Jinkosaurus, LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 08:57:09 PM
Who or what is Jinkosaurus?

Jean Casarez...reporting on Nancy Grace from Peru.

I couldn't remember how to spell her name!  LOL



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: ozziesmom on June 21, 2010, 08:59:21 PM
Who or what is Jinkosaurus?

Jean Casarez, a reporter for HLN (In Sessions).  But the way NG says it it comes out Jinkosaurus, LOL
OMG too funny....You're right!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 21, 2010, 08:59:34 PM
Joran reminds me of Frankenstein, so I guess he and Anita are Frankenstein and his mommy.  I do not know how she can live with herself and know that she helped create that monster.  I would never allow my child to attend a school with that hag.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 21, 2010, 09:02:39 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

IMO, no

Amphetamines could be prescription diet pills, in other words an "upper".  She may have been taking them to stay awake, or alert to be up all night.

I think roofies are considered a "downer".

But with the time it took to find her body, I don't know if the roofie would still show up!

IMO, because she had amphetamine in her system, the roofie may not have had the full effect since I think they have basically the opposite effect on the system.  In other words they would work against each other if I understand what each does correctly.

Hmmm, so I wonder if she fought back hard because of the effect of those and that helps to account for her horrific wounds.  They did mention on NG that it may be she took the uppers to stay up all night for poker
she seems sleppy in cameras and I think that she fought hard to deffend her life. Stephany was a soccer player for her university and I believe that she kicked the monster pretty hard.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: AZSunny on June 21, 2010, 09:05:10 PM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

IMO, no

Amphetamines could be prescription diet pills, in other words an "upper".  She may have been taking them to stay awake, or alert to be up all night.

I think roofies are considered a "downer".

But with the time it took to find her body, I don't know if the roofie would still show up!

IMO, because she had amphetamine in her system, the roofie may not have had the full effect since I think they have basically the opposite effect on the system.  In other words they would work against each other if I understand what each does correctly.

Hmmm, so I wonder if she fought back hard because of the effect of those and that helps to account for her horrific wounds.  They did mention on NG that it may be she took the uppers to stay up all night for poker
she seems sleppy in cameras and I think that she fought hard to deffend her life. Stephany was a soccer player for her university and I believe that she kicked the monster pretty hard.

Well, I hope she had a good aim!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:07:33 PM
Who or what is Jinkosaurus?

It is how Nancy Grace pronounces Jean Casarez's name.  It's an Annaism.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 09:11:40 PM
I hope everyone is listening to Dana!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:12:47 PM
Joy Behar is also covering this.  Hard to watch TV and listen to Dana at the same time.

Dana discussing the great details in Joran's confession inconsistent with forced confession.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 21, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
The amphetamines were probably to keep her up for the casino games..she took them.

But in the pics she really really looks drugged to me..slow moving, head down..almost a zombie.  This would be from a huge dose of date rape drugs, roofies, ..because Joran knew she was wide awake and that posed a problem to rob her.

He tried to sedate her with his normal method..but with the speed in her system..she still had the fight or flight working for her.  He thought the drugs would make this easy..to rob her. 

HE thought wrong.  She fought back.  I don't think sex played a role in this..he was out to rob her of the money he had seen her win..and the WII  and other things in her car..her father says this is where she kept her other winnings, her jewelry..and anything else he could get his hands on..money is the only thing that matters to him.

He is $hit out of luck now. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:15:05 PM
Magnolia,
That looks like the Official press release?  I think it is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 09:17:03 PM
The amphetamines were probably to keep her up for the casino games..she took them.

But in the pics she really really looks drugged to me..slow moving, head down..almost a zombie.  This would be from a huge dose of date rape drugs, roofies, ..because Joran knew she was wide awake and that posed a problem to rob her.

He tried to sedate her with his normal method..but with the speed in her system..she still had the fight or flight working for her.  He thought the drugs would make this easy..to rob her. 

HE thought wrong.  She fought back.  I don't think sex played a role in this..he was out to rob her of the money he had seen her win..and the WII  and other things in her car..her father says this is where she kept her other winnings, her jewelry..and anything else he could get his hands on..money is the only thing that matters to him.

He is $hit out of luck now. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 09:20:07 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad
- Tobago
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:22:51 PM
LOL!

Dana just called ALE Reno 911!  That's a pretty good description.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad?
- Tobago?
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines?
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France

I have to wonder why he would have all those types of currencies on him.  Has he stole money from others?  What happened to the other people he may have stolen from?  Especial those I added question marks to?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 09:24:13 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad
- Tobago
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France

And he is mentally ill.  Mental illness does not include being able to rob and kill in many languages and currency.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 09:25:02 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad?
- Tobago?
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines?
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France

I have to wonder why he would have all those types of currencies on him.  Has he stole money from others?  What happened to the other people he may have stolen from?  Especial those I added question marks to?

Involved in human slavery trade.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:25:55 PM
LOL!

Dana just called ALE Reno 911!  That's a pretty good description.

LOL I can just see Dompig in the role of Lt. Jim Dangle (short shorts) lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:28:02 PM
Wendy Murphy put lots of things into perspective.  For example, mental illness is not a defense against murder.  Would require being legally insane.  And these vague accusations coming from Joran are not going to work within that system.

Personally, I think Joran supporters are trying to intimidate Peru but they have such an exaggerated sense of self-importance, not unlike Joran.  Peru doesn't care if the Dutch think Joran is not being treated well.  They just appear foolish in that they are supporting a monster.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:30:43 PM
Always remember to be found guilty of whatever he is charged with, it only requires a preponderance of evidence, like 51%, not even beyond reasonable doubt.  And only two of the three judges have to find him guilty.

I don't know what we are always so worried about except that he was allowed to walk before and we don't want that to ever happen again.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 21, 2010, 09:31:37 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad
- Tobago
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France


So in the interview..that was 9 parts translated for us on UTube..her Dad says that she had a WII in her car, among other newer tech things..that were not recovered.  Her Dad said that she kept her winnings ..the $10,000 from the previous days, in her glove box, according to what her friends told him.  He said she liked to have the lastest high tech things..and they are all missing from her car. 

This leads me to believe that he either sold them, gave them to the taxi drivers..who in turn sold them.. or someone stole them from the SUV.  He even mentioned these in an interview saying he would like to have them back..and he would not prosecutte.  I think he is under the impression that either Joran sold them or gave them to the taxi drivers  to get him out of the country.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 09:31:46 PM
LOL!

Dana just called ALE Reno 911!  That's a pretty good description.

LOL I can just see Dompig in the role of Lt. Jim Dangle (short shorts) lol

That's what I was thinking as well, a really, really fat Lt. Dangle.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 09:32:34 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad?
- Tobago?
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines?
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France

I have to wonder why he would have all those types of currencies on him.  Has he stole money from others?  What happened to the other people he may have stolen from?  Especial those I added question marks to?

One comment Tom Shamshak-Former Police Chief said was:

That's an interesting development.  Has he been to these countries in the past or was he planning to travel to these other destinations.  Engage in poker matches or look for other victims.  This may be a serial killer we have on our hands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 09:33:25 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad
- Tobago
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France


So in the interview..that was 9 parts translated for us on UTube..her Dad says that she had a WII in her car, among other newer tech things..that were not recovered.  Her Dad said that she kept her winnings ..the $10,000 from the previous days, in her glove box, according to what her friends told him.  He said she liked to have the lastest high tech things..and they are all missing from her car. 

This leads me to believe that he either sold them, gave them to the taxi drivers..who in turn sold them.. or someone stole them from the SUV.  He even mentioned these in an interview saying he would like to have them back..and he would not prosecutte.  I think he is under the impression that either Joran sold them or gave them to the taxi drivers  to get him out of the country.

If the taxi drivers knowingly received stolen merchandise to give him assistance in escape, then their arses are in a big sling.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 21, 2010, 09:34:57 PM
Magnolia,
That looks like the Official press release?  I think it is.

It is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Dana on June 21, 2010, 09:41:55 PM
LOL!

Dana just called ALE Reno 911!  That's a pretty good description.

ALE could learn a thing or two from the boys and girls from Reno  :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 09:43:47 PM
Always remember to be found guilty of whatever he is charged with, it only requires a preponderance of evidence, like 51%, not even beyond reasonable doubt.  And only two of the three judges have to find him guilty.

I don't know what we are always so worried about except that he was allowed to walk before and we don't want that to ever happen again.



No worries here, Anna. I know he is a dead man.

You`re right, people have a knee-jerk reaction because he has walked so many times.

Not this time. Nobody in the world will save him this time. The more he disrespects Peru`s legal system - the faster he will wake up with his neck cut ear to ear.

Bring it on, Maton... I want you die. I want him to feel the pain he`s caused for so many people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 21, 2010, 09:50:32 PM
Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence which Joran had in is possession is:

- A book on Al Capone
- A Camera
- A photo album
And Currency from the following nations:
- Trinidad
- Tobago
- Venezuela
- Indonesia
- Philippines
- Chile
- Macow
- Euros
- Hong Kong
- Malaysia
- United States
- France


So in the interview..that was 9 parts translated for us on UTube..her Dad says that she had a WII in her car, among other newer tech things..that were not recovered.  Her Dad said that she kept her winnings ..the $10,000 from the previous days, in her glove box, according to what her friends told him.  He said she liked to have the lastest high tech things..and they are all missing from her car. 

This leads me to believe that he either sold them, gave them to the taxi drivers..who in turn sold them.. or someone stole them from the SUV.  He even mentioned these in an interview saying he would like to have them back..and he would not prosecute.  I think he is under the impression that either Joran sold them or gave them to the taxi drivers  to get him out of the country.

I'm glad you also picked up Mr. Flores saying the $10,000 Stephany won a couple days before she was murdered was supposedly in her car. That might be the trigger for Joran's violent beating to Stephany.....Joran might have assumed she had that money on her person, and when she didn't, he flipped out. He could have tried to get her car keys from her and hit her when she refused to give them to him. There are so many possible scenarios. I think Mr. Flores or Stephany's brother said her winnings of $10,000 were not deposited into her account. (I believe because she didn't want her dad to know she was gambling)

Could Joran have exchanged the $10,000 for the many different countries currency, not knowing where he might end up after fleeing Peru?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 09:58:21 PM
Dana is speaking with Rita Cosby now, we haven't had her on the show for a long time.  I have always liked her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: the big hammer on June 21, 2010, 09:58:51 PM
Currency

Not surprised.

Nor unusual, imo.

3rd world travel bartering and trading and "cash" requested, could be anything.  It's all cash with a calcuable current value.  That's why in Eastern Europe and into Ukraine, Russia, etc they ask for "hard currency" -- US Greenbacks or Euro's.  At one time Deutschmarks.  Period. 

I was in Russia when Marlboro cigarettes were a more reliable -- and readily accepted -- currency than rubles. 

In many parts of this great big world, it simply ain't Kansas.

.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: SuzieQ on June 21, 2010, 10:00:53 PM
Texasmom or Klaas, is there a hurricane headed toward Aruba?  24 Ora has a map of something coming there way.



Un ola tropical situa riba parti centra di area di Caribe ta sigui  move den direccion west. Un di dos ola tropical situa riba parti oost di Caribe ta move den direccion west y ta anticipa cu e lo alcanza nos region den e sigiente 24ora. Click lesa mas pa mas detaye.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:02:48 PM
Texasmom or Klaas, is there a hurricane headed toward Aruba?  24 Ora has a map of something coming there way.



Un ola tropical situa riba parti centra di area di Caribe ta sigui  move den direccion west. Un di dos ola tropical situa riba parti oost di Caribe ta move den direccion west y ta anticipa cu e lo alcanza nos region den e sigiente 24ora. Click lesa mas pa mas detaye.

Tropical depression I think.  I'll check.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 10:07:22 PM
Texasmom or Klaas, is there a hurricane headed toward Aruba?  24 Ora has a map of something coming there way.



Un ola tropical situa riba parti centra di area di Caribe ta sigui  move den direccion west. Un di dos ola tropical situa riba parti oost di Caribe ta move den direccion west y ta anticipa cu e lo alcanza nos region den e sigiente 24ora. Click lesa mas pa mas detaye.

I saw some thunderstorm alerts earlier, along with more wind than usual and heavy rain.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 10:07:59 PM
Dana:  This is a really good show!   :)  Enjoying hearing Rita's description of her dad's heroism...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:09:29 PM
Dana:  This is a really good show!   :)  Enjoying hearing Rita's description of her dad's heroism...

It is, it's a great show!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 10:09:30 PM
Wow - Now there is a confident leader for Aruba!


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ARMPITS.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 10:10:31 PM

June 21, 2010

Official report from events of Judge Morales with defendant, Joran van der Sloot
   
Van der Sloot refused to give a preliminary statement
Defendant requests that, previously, habeas corpus is resolved

•Decision does not effect the criminal proceedings will continue with other scheduled proceedings

•The statement is a means of proof which will be evaluated by the judge to determine the responsibility of the accused or not.
Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot refused this morning to make a preliminary statement before the magistrate of the Fourth Criminal Court of Lima, Dr. Carlos Morales Cordova, who processes it as an alleged perpetrator of the crime of simple murder and theft to the detriment of Stephany Flores Ramírez.

The Dutchman claimed that citizens will not declare it is pending the writ of habeas corpus filed in order to be declared invalid statements surrendered to the police because, he says, he breached their rights of defense.

 As director of instruction and with the favorable opinion of the Deputy Prosecutor Jesus Ascencio Solis, Dr. Córdova Morales suspended the diligence to which this is carried out at the time, according to the development of the judicial investigation and decision of the accused to testify .

THE PROCESS CONTINUES

 The judge explained that the preliminary hearing in the combination of evidence to gather during the judicial investigation in due course, will be evaluated to determine the innocence or degree of responsibility of the accused.

 Meanwhile, others reported that the notes provided by his trial continue according to schedule to meet the target of the investigation stage: establishment of the facts and accountability.

To this end, the instructive to the other defendants, brothers John Oswald and John Williams Aparcana Pisconte, and Carlos Alberto Uribe parapet, will be held on 23, 24 and 25 June respectively. En todos los casos, a las 14:30 horas. In all cases, at 14:30.

The above defendants are processed with a subpoena restricted by failure to report crime. They are accused of having facilitated the transportation of Van der Sloot Nazca to Tacna despite allegedly knew about the crime that he would have incurred.

 Dr. Córdova Morales also ordered the implementation of psychological and psychiatric expertise to the principal defendant, and the necropsy ratificaciónde and all expert reports made in the preliminary stage (fingerprint, forensic psychology, criminal roadworthiness, toxicological, etc.), the specialists to explain the reasons for their opinions.

 It was reported that the reconstruction of the events will be scheduled in due course, depending on progress of the criminal proceedings.

. Dr. Morales Cordova finally called on the press to report responsibly and truthfully, in order not to affect the development process.

 Lima, June 21, 2010
 OFFICE OF MEDIA AND IMAGE ISNTITUCIONAL

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.pj.gob.pe/noticias/noticias.asp%3Fcodigo%3D16692%26opcion%3Ddetalle&ei=GGweTIqJBIKC8gbasp2rDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CDsQ7gEwBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJuzgado%2BPenal%2Bde%2BLima,%2BCarlos%2BMorales%2BC%25C3%25B3rdova%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

Thanks Magnolia!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:13:34 PM
Wow - Now there is a confident leader for Aruba!


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ARMPITS.jpg)

I have made some simple observations the last 5 years.

1.  Aruba is a dry and hot island
2.  If there's no wind, you sweat like a Sloot pig
3.  A bit too much partying for many of these middle age people
4.  Many islanders overweight and out of shape.  Likely due to eating and partying too much.
5.  All of the above contribute to excess perspiration ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 10:13:39 PM
Hey Monekys!
Busy news day!
Current Tropical Weather Outlook (NHC/TPC):    
en Español
Accompanying satellite image (pop-up, source: NHC)

NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
800 PM EDT MON JUN 21 2010

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

A VIGOROUS TROPICAL WAVE LOCATED FROM EASTERN HISPANIOLA SOUTHWARD
OVER THE CENTRAL CARIBBEAN SEA IS PRODUCING WIDESPREAD CLOUDINESS
AND SHOWERS ACROSS MUCH OF THE CENTRAL AND EASTERN CARIBBEAN SEA...
HISPANIOLA...PUERTO RICO...AND NORTHERN VENEZUELA. THIS DISTURBANCE
CONTINUES TO SHOW SIGNS OF INCREASED ORGANIZATION...AND UPPER-LEVEL
WINDS ARE CONDUCIVE FOR A TROPICAL DEPRESSION TO FORM DURING THE
NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS. THIS WEATHER SYSTEM COULD PRODUCE LOCALLY
HEAVY RAINFALL AND GUSTY WINDS OVER PORTIONS OF PUERTO RICO...THE
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC...HAITI...AND THE NETHERLANDS ANTILLES DURING THE
NEXT DAY OR SO AS THE SYSTEM MOVES WEST-NORTHWESTWARD AT 10 TO 15
MPH. THERE IS A MEDIUM CHANCE...50 PERCENT...OF THIS SYSTEM
BECOMING A TROPICAL CYCLONE DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

ELSEWHERE...TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE
NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER STEWART


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 10:14:30 PM
Stay safe DANA!  Great show!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 10:14:38 PM
GREAT SHOW DANA!

Stay safe Dana!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 21, 2010, 10:15:10 PM
Texasmom or Klaas, is there a hurricane headed toward Aruba?  24 Ora has a map of something coming there way.



Un ola tropical situa riba parti centra di area di Caribe ta sigui  move den direccion west. Un di dos ola tropical situa riba parti oost di Caribe ta move den direccion west y ta anticipa cu e lo alcanza nos region den e sigiente 24ora. Click lesa mas pa mas detaye.

I saw some thunderstorm alerts earlier, along with more wind than usual and heavy rain.

That is interesting..because Aruba touts itself as always having tradewinds..and no rain..much less thunderstorms or tropical depressions...per travel guides.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Gypsy DD on June 21, 2010, 10:17:37 PM
Wow - Now there is a confident leader for Aruba!


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ARMPITS.jpg)

I have made some simple observations the last 5 years.

1.  Aruba is a dry and hot island
2.  If there's no wind, you sweat like a Sloot pig
3.  A bit too much partying for many of these middle age people
4.  Many islanders overweight and out of shape.  Likely due to eating and partying too much.
5.  All of the above contribute to excess perspiration ;-)

He looks like a fatover weight Hitler in that pic...just saying.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 21, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Wow - Now there is a confident leader for Aruba!


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ARMPITS.jpg)

I have made some simple observations the last 5 years.

1.  Aruba is a dry and hot island
2.  If there's no wind, you sweat like a Sloot pig
3.  A bit too much partying for many of these middle age people
4.  Many islanders overweight and out of shape.  Likely due to eating and partying too much.
5.  All of the above contribute to excess perspiration ;-)

I agree-I'm glad I don't live there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 21, 2010, 10:19:36 PM
Dana:  This is a really good show!   :)  Enjoying hearing Rita's description of her dad's heroism...

It is, it's a great show!

Yes it is, my mother & daughter are listening in tonight - I'm still working so only able to listen with half an ear.

Daughter just read this, suggested I post it. There are a few statements by Anita in this that yank my chain.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-21/van-der-sloot-retracts-confession/

As Joran van der Sloot retracts confessing to murdering Stephany Flores, his own mother admits he "may have" killed the young woman in Peru and her own "grave mistake."

Joran van der Sloot faced charges in court before Judge Carlos Morales in a closed-door session on Monday morning and has reportedly retracted his confession to the murder of Stephany Flores in Lima, Peru on May 30. Meanwhile, in Aruba, his mother has told a Dutch newspaper that her son needs psychological help and that he “may have” killed the young Peruvian woman.

Joran van der Sloot’s mother says she had booked a bed in a psychiatric hospital in Holland for her son just days before he left for Peru where he allegedly killed 21-year-old Flores. “My son is sick in the head,” Anita van der Sloot told De Telegraaf newspaper in an exclusive interview that ran in the Sunday edition. “He did not want help. He left to avoid hospitalization.”

Van der Sloot’s mother also told the Dutch paper that she would not be going to Peru to see him. And she would not speak to the American press, which she says vilified her son when he was accused of involvement in the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. She and her husband Paulus, who died of a heart attack at the age of 57 last February, were steadfast in their support when Joran was jailed in connection with Holloway’s disappearance. This time, van der Sloot’s mother is not so sure of her son’s innocence. “I will not visit him in his cell,” she said. “I cannot embrace him.”

The 22-year-old’s mother says her son is “not a monster.” Instead, she says he is “sick.” And she told De Telegraaf that she still honestly believed that Joran was not involved in Holloway’s disappearance, but conceded to the paper that she is not as sure about Flores. “I believed Joran even through his many lies,” she said about Holloway. “He left her on the beach. I still really believe that.” Flores, on the other hand, “he may have killed.”

She described to the paper how his psychological condition had deteriorated since his father’s death—for which she says he felt ultimately responsible. She said her son felt guilty about the stress he had put his father under, and that his heart attack was a direct result of Joran’s troubles. She described how he had a gambling addiction, and that he increasingly showed signs of mental illness. When she spoke to her son just days before Flores was murdered, he sounded “paranoid” and he told her that he was sure someone was following him. When he was on the run in Chile, she pleaded with him that he must turn himself into authorities and “bear the burden.”

Mrs. Van Der Sloot has admitted that she feels guilty for her son’s actions. She explained that she and her husband erred in sending their son to Holland after Holloway’s disappearance. He should have had psychological treatment then, she said, but her husband was worried that people would find out and it would make him appear guilty in Holloway’s disappearance. Instead, they sent him to Holland to study and later to Thailand where they helped him buy a coffee bar that he sold last year. “We made a grave mistake,” she says. “He already needed psychiatric help back then.”

Officials in Peru don’t agree. They say Van Der Sloot has undergone extensive psychological tests since his arrest June 3 near Santiago, Chile, and he is not mentally ill. He was extradited to Lima where he admitted murdering Flores, giving gruesome details including how, over breakfast, he contemplated dismembering her body to get rid of it. The details led Peruvian investigators to believe that Van Der Sloot was a venomous killer whose attempts to set up his alibi and his clear lack of remorse showed that he was cold and calculating—not a psychopath. "There was blood everywhere," Van der Sloot said, according to transcripts of the confession obtained by The Daily Beast. "What am I going to do now? I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Van der Sloot’s lawyer now says he was coerced into giving the confession. He says that the interrogation was tough — both physically and psychologically — and that he was promised that he would be returned to The Netherlands if he confessed to the crime. His lawyer will ask Judge Morales for an official retraction. In the meantime, several news organizations were given access to his cell in the infamous Miguel Castro Castro prison to see the conditions first hand. CNN and ABC report that it is a six-by-10 foot cell with a mattress on a cement frame, a hole in the floor as a toilet, and a sink. He was not in the cell at the time of the walk-through, and his lawyer says he will only grant interviews for a hefty fee. He will remain in solitary confinement away from the general population throughout the pre-trial investigation phase which could take a year or more.

--Barbie Latza Nadeau, author of the Beast Book Angel Face, about Amanda Knox, has reported from Italy for Newsweek Magazine since 1997. She also writes for CNN Traveller, Budget Travel Magazine and Frommer's.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:27:41 PM
Peru must not have a "Son of Sam Law" or whatever it is called that says a criminal can't profit from his crime.

Anyone who pays Joran for an interview is as sick in the head as he is!

Well, one thing about that is that it will likely end up in the hands of his attorney and not benefit Joran very much.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 21, 2010, 10:28:23 PM
I hope he doesn't get any offers to do an interview.  This is just what Joran wants.  Don't give him what he wants.

Let him rot with his new best friend the rat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:29:05 PM
Excellent program, Dana!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 21, 2010, 10:34:21 PM
Dana:  This is a really good show!   :)  Enjoying hearing Rita's description of her dad's heroism...

It is, it's a great show!

Yes it is, my mother & daughter are listening in tonight - I'm still working so only able to listen with half an ear.

Daughter just read this, suggested I post it. There are a few statements by Anita in this that yank my chain.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-21/van-der-sloot-retracts-confession/

As Joran van der Sloot retracts confessing to murdering Stephany Flores, his own mother admits he "may have" killed the young woman in Peru and her own "grave mistake."

Joran van der Sloot faced charges in court before Judge Carlos Morales in a closed-door session on Monday morning and has reportedly retracted his confession to the murder of Stephany Flores in Lima, Peru on May 30. Meanwhile, in Aruba, his mother has told a Dutch newspaper that her son needs psychological help and that he “may have” killed the young Peruvian woman.

Joran van der Sloot’s mother says she had booked a bed in a psychiatric hospital in Holland for her son just days before he left for Peru where he allegedly killed 21-year-old Flores. “My son is sick in the head,” Anita van der Sloot told De Telegraaf newspaper in an exclusive interview that ran in the Sunday edition. “He did not want help. He left to avoid hospitalization.”

Van der Sloot’s mother also told the Dutch paper that she would not be going to Peru to see him. And she would not speak to the American press, which she says vilified her son when he was accused of involvement in the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. She and her husband Paulus, who died of a heart attack at the age of 57 last February, were steadfast in their support when Joran was jailed in connection with Holloway’s disappearance. This time, van der Sloot’s mother is not so sure of her son’s innocence. “I will not visit him in his cell,” she said. “I cannot embrace him.”

The 22-year-old’s mother says her son is “not a monster.” Instead, she says he is “sick.” And she told De Telegraaf that she still honestly believed that Joran was not involved in Holloway’s disappearance, but conceded to the paper that she is not as sure about Flores. “I believed Joran even through his many lies,” she said about Holloway. “He left her on the beach. I still really believe that.” Flores, on the other hand, “he may have killed.”

She described to the paper how his psychological condition had deteriorated since his father’s death—for which she says he felt ultimately responsible. She said her son felt guilty about the stress he had put his father under, and that his heart attack was a direct result of Joran’s troubles. She described how he had a gambling addiction, and that he increasingly showed signs of mental illness. When she spoke to her son just days before Flores was murdered, he sounded “paranoid” and he told her that he was sure someone was following him. When he was on the run in Chile, she pleaded with him that he must turn himself into authorities and “bear the burden.”

Mrs. Van Der Sloot has admitted that she feels guilty for her son’s actions. She explained that she and her husband erred in sending their son to Holland after Holloway’s disappearance. He should have had psychological treatment then, she said, but her husband was worried that people would find out and it would make him appear guilty in Holloway’s disappearance. Instead, they sent him to Holland to study and later to Thailand where they helped him buy a coffee bar that he sold last year. “We made a grave mistake,” she says. “He already needed psychiatric help back then.”

Officials in Peru don’t agree. They say Van Der Sloot has undergone extensive psychological tests since his arrest June 3 near Santiago, Chile, and he is not mentally ill. He was extradited to Lima where he admitted murdering Flores, giving gruesome details including how, over breakfast, he contemplated dismembering her body to get rid of it. The details led Peruvian investigators to believe that Van Der Sloot was a venomous killer whose attempts to set up his alibi and his clear lack of remorse showed that he was cold and calculating—not a psychopath. "There was blood everywhere," Van der Sloot said, according to transcripts of the confession obtained by The Daily Beast. "What am I going to do now? I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Van der Sloot’s lawyer now says he was coerced into giving the confession. He says that the interrogation was tough — both physically and psychologically — and that he was promised that he would be returned to The Netherlands if he confessed to the crime. His lawyer will ask Judge Morales for an official retraction. In the meantime, several news organizations were given access to his cell in the infamous Miguel Castro Castro prison to see the conditions first hand. CNN and ABC report that it is a six-by-10 foot cell with a mattress on a cement frame, a hole in the floor as a toilet, and a sink. He was not in the cell at the time of the walk-through, and his lawyer says he will only grant interviews for a hefty fee. He will remain in solitary confinement away from the general population throughout the pre-trial investigation phase which could take a year or more.

--Barbie Latza Nadeau, author of the Beast Book Angel Face, about Amanda Knox, has reported from Italy for Newsweek Magazine since 1997. She also writes for CNN Traveller, Budget Travel Magazine and Frommer's.



HELLO, Anita!  This is BS. 

Thanks, Nonesuche.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:36:05 PM
I hope he doesn't get any offers to do an interview.  This is just what Joran wants.  Don't give him what he wants.

Let him rot with his new best friend the rat.


San, I guess that Dutch reporter already did pay his "hefty fee."  Makes me furious that Joran is once again going to profit from his murders.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 10:36:59 PM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ANITAVANDERDOOD.png)



Lies are hard on a body. They accelerate the aging process.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 10:37:29 PM
DANA, GREAT SHOW.  Covered some of my favorite topics.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 21, 2010, 10:38:23 PM
Since Joran did not take to the mental sick bed, perhaps Anita could be admitted.  She certainly is in dire need of it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 10:40:29 PM
Thank you everyone for the great research and reports. Now that my autistic sons are older I have less time to search for clues and you are all terrific at posting the essentials. I wish I could tune into the blogtalk shows but my connection is awful and even staying on here is a challenge at times.
Mind blowing tidbit of info you posted there, Ono, about Sebastiaan being one of Joran's victims. I bet all hard copy of that is hidden so it will go down in the rumor or hearsay files ( the Sloots sure won't bring it up).
If it is accurate I wonder what it must have felt like to be betrayed by the two people you thought would protect you from harm ( father- judge and mother-teacher).
Yegods!
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 21, 2010, 10:44:27 PM
Selena,  I wish Jossy or somebody on the island would pin down that business about Joran beating up his brother when the brother was only 7 yo.

Would be very interesting to know if this is fact or fiction.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 10:45:19 PM
Someone (Ono iirc) commented on Steph Watts latest show earlier.  I've started listening to it (after Dana of course) and this is some of what he said.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this

He just got back from Aruba and had a chance to talk to a lot of locals, and a lot of friends of Joran van der Sloot's and they all painted this interesting picture of his history.  

He beat his younger brother so badly that his younger brother almost died. He said later in the show (in response from questions from the Chat Room) that he didn't have a lot of details other than Joran beat his younger brother (who he thinks was 7 or 8 years old at the time) so badly that had to be hospitalized and almost lost his life.

He was an incredible bully in school.

He was known for torturing animals.

He threw a homeless man off a bridge.

He robbed his school and was forced to apologize in front of the entire school.

ANITA, LIED AND PROTECTED JORAN EVEN THOUGH SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS CAPABLE OF!

What do her other sons really think of her?  I know what I'd think of her if she were my mother.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 10:47:04 PM
Someone (Ono iirc) commented on Steph Watts latest show earlier.  I've started listening to it (after Dana of course) and this is some of what he said.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this

He just got back from Aruba and had a chance to talk to a lot of locals, and a lot of friends of Joran van der Sloot's and they all painted this interesting picture of his history.  

He beat his younger brother so badly that his younger brother almost died. He said later in the show (in response to questions from the Chat Room) that he didn't have a lot of details other than Joran beat his younger brother (who he thinks was 7 or 8 years old at the time) so badly that had to be hospitalized and almost lost his life.

He was an incredible bully in school.

He was known for torturing animals.

He threw a homeless man off a bridge.

He robbed his school and was forced to apologize in front of the entire school.

ANITA, LIED AND PROTECTED JORAN EVEN THOUGH SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS CAPABLE OF!

What do her other sons really think of her?  I know what I'd think of her if she were my mother.


self edit


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 21, 2010, 10:49:23 PM
Selena,  I wish Jossy or somebody on the island would pin down that business about Joran beating up his brother when the brother was only 7 yo.

Would be very interesting to know if this is fact or fiction.



We always heard about Joran attacking his brother and kicking him severely.
I think we all just assumed that it was Val, because Sebastian was so much younger.

I believe that it was Anita who told about Joran kicking his brother.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 10:49:45 PM
hi Anna,
So Joran would have been 15/16 then? the timeline fits...he fell apart bigtime according to all the stories told about him around that time. Melody enetred, left. He moved to his own apt- to protect Val and sebastiaan. the lying was probably always there but the violence got amped. Hormonal? Mother hatred? Maybe he despised his brothers from birth becuase they took Anita's attentuion away and it spiraled from there?
Someone knows all this, prob Van der Stratten.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 10:51:16 PM
hi Magnolia,
Maybe this is why Anita admitted it...the kids at school ratted on him about temoer tantrums, fights,...she had to cover her ass and his by saying he was getting help for anger management. Rage disorder is more like it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 10:52:52 PM

Yes it is, my mother & daughter are listening in tonight - I'm still working so only able to listen with half an ear.

Daughter just read this, suggested I post it. There are a few statements by Anita in this that yank my chain.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-21/van-der-sloot-retracts-confession/

As Joran van der Sloot retracts confessing to murdering Stephany Flores, his own mother admits he "may have" killed the young woman in Peru and her own "grave mistake."

Joran van der Sloot faced charges in court before Judge Carlos Morales in a closed-door session on Monday morning and has reportedly retracted his confession to the murder of Stephany Flores in Lima, Peru on May 30. Meanwhile, in Aruba, his mother has told a Dutch newspaper that her son needs psychological help and that he “may have” killed the young Peruvian woman.

Joran van der Sloot’s mother says she had booked a bed in a psychiatric hospital in Holland for her son just days before he left for Peru where he allegedly killed 21-year-old Flores. “My son is sick in the head,” Anita van der Sloot told De Telegraaf newspaper in an exclusive interview that ran in the Sunday edition. “He did not want help. He left to avoid hospitalization.”

Van der Sloot’s mother also told the Dutch paper that she would not be going to Peru to see him. And she would not speak to the American press, which she says vilified her son when he was accused of involvement in the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. She and her husband Paulus, who died of a heart attack at the age of 57 last February, were steadfast in their support when Joran was jailed in connection with Holloway’s disappearance. This time, van der Sloot’s mother is not so sure of her son’s innocence. “I will not visit him in his cell,” she said. “I cannot embrace him.”

The 22-year-old’s mother says her son is “not a monster.” Instead, she says he is “sick.” And she told De Telegraaf that she still honestly believed that Joran was not involved in Holloway’s disappearance, but conceded to the paper that she is not as sure about Flores. “I believed Joran even through his many lies,” she said about Holloway. “He left her on the beach. I still really believe that.” Flores, on the other hand, “he may have killed.”

She described to the paper how his psychological condition had deteriorated since his father’s death—for which she says he felt ultimately responsible. She said her son felt guilty about the stress he had put his father under, and that his heart attack was a direct result of Joran’s troubles. She described how he had a gambling addiction, and that he increasingly showed signs of mental illness. When she spoke to her son just days before Flores was murdered, he sounded “paranoid” and he told her that he was sure someone was following him. When he was on the run in Chile, she pleaded with him that he must turn himself into authorities and “bear the burden.”

Mrs. Van Der Sloot has admitted that she feels guilty for her son’s actions. She explained that she and her husband erred in sending their son to Holland after Holloway’s disappearance. He should have had psychological treatment then, she said, but her husband was worried that people would find out and it would make him appear guilty in Holloway’s disappearance. Instead, they sent him to Holland to study and later to Thailand where they helped him buy a coffee bar that he sold last year. “We made a grave mistake,” she says. “He already needed psychiatric help back then.”

Officials in Peru don’t agree. They say Van Der Sloot has undergone extensive psychological tests since his arrest June 3 near Santiago, Chile, and he is not mentally ill. He was extradited to Lima where he admitted murdering Flores, giving gruesome details including how, over breakfast, he contemplated dismembering her body to get rid of it. The details led Peruvian investigators to believe that Van Der Sloot was a venomous killer whose attempts to set up his alibi and his clear lack of remorse showed that he was cold and calculating—not a psychopath. "There was blood everywhere," Van der Sloot said, according to transcripts of the confession obtained by The Daily Beast. "What am I going to do now? I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Van der Sloot’s lawyer now says he was coerced into giving the confession. He says that the interrogation was tough — both physically and psychologically — and that he was promised that he would be returned to The Netherlands if he confessed to the crime. His lawyer will ask Judge Morales for an official retraction. In the meantime, several news organizations were given access to his cell in the infamous Miguel Castro Castro prison to see the conditions first hand. CNN and ABC report that it is a six-by-10 foot cell with a mattress on a cement frame, a hole in the floor as a toilet, and a sink. He was not in the cell at the time of the walk-through, and his lawyer says he will only grant interviews for a hefty fee. He will remain in solitary confinement away from the general population throughout the pre-trial investigation phase which could take a year or more.

--Barbie Latza Nadeau, author of the Beast Book Angel Face, about Amanda Knox, has reported from Italy for Newsweek Magazine since 1997. She also writes for CNN Traveller, Budget Travel Magazine and Frommer's.


Hi none

Thanks to both you and your daughter.

I am so angry that the Peruvian system allows Joran to profit while detained ... profit from the horrific murder of one of their own.  It is so wrong.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 10:54:20 PM
Dana:  This is a really good show!   :)  Enjoying hearing Rita's description of her dad's heroism...

It is, it's a great show!

Yes it is, my mother & daughter are listening in tonight - I'm still working so only able to listen with half an ear.

Daughter just read this, suggested I post it. There are a few statements by Anita in this that yank my chain.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-21/van-der-sloot-retracts-confession/

As Joran van der Sloot retracts confessing to murdering Stephany Flores, his own mother admits he "may have" killed the young woman in Peru and her own "grave mistake."

Joran van der Sloot faced charges in court before Judge Carlos Morales in a closed-door session on Monday morning and has reportedly retracted his confession to the murder of Stephany Flores in Lima, Peru on May 30. Meanwhile, in Aruba, his mother has told a Dutch newspaper that her son needs psychological help and that he “may have” killed the young Peruvian woman.

Joran van der Sloot’s mother says she had booked a bed in a psychiatric hospital in Holland for her son just days before he left for Peru where he allegedly killed 21-year-old Flores. “My son is sick in the head,” Anita van der Sloot told De Telegraaf newspaper in an exclusive interview that ran in the Sunday edition. “He did not want help. He left to avoid hospitalization.”

Van der Sloot’s mother also told the Dutch paper that she would not be going to Peru to see him. And she would not speak to the American press, which she says vilified her son when he was accused of involvement in the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. She and her husband Paulus, who died of a heart attack at the age of 57 last February, were steadfast in their support when Joran was jailed in connection with Holloway’s disappearance. This time, van der Sloot’s mother is not so sure of her son’s innocence. “I will not visit him in his cell,” she said. “I cannot embrace him.”

The 22-year-old’s mother says her son is “not a monster.” Instead, she says he is “sick.” And she told De Telegraaf that she still honestly believed that Joran was not involved in Holloway’s disappearance, but conceded to the paper that she is not as sure about Flores. “I believed Joran even through his many lies,” she said about Holloway. “He left her on the beach. I still really believe that.” Flores, on the other hand, “he may have killed.”

She described to the paper how his psychological condition had deteriorated since his father’s death—for which she says he felt ultimately responsible. She said her son felt guilty about the stress he had put his father under, and that his heart attack was a direct result of Joran’s troubles. She described how he had a gambling addiction, and that he increasingly showed signs of mental illness. When she spoke to her son just days before Flores was murdered, he sounded “paranoid” and he told her that he was sure someone was following him. When he was on the run in Chile, she pleaded with him that he must turn himself into authorities and “bear the burden.”

Mrs. Van Der Sloot has admitted that she feels guilty for her son’s actions. She explained that she and her husband erred in sending their son to Holland after Holloway’s disappearance. He should have had psychological treatment then, she said, but her husband was worried that people would find out and it would make him appear guilty in Holloway’s disappearance. Instead, they sent him to Holland to study and later to Thailand where they helped him buy a coffee bar that he sold last year. “We made a grave mistake,” she says. “He already needed psychiatric help back then.”

Officials in Peru don’t agree. They say Van Der Sloot has undergone extensive psychological tests since his arrest June 3 near Santiago, Chile, and he is not mentally ill. He was extradited to Lima where he admitted murdering Flores, giving gruesome details including how, over breakfast, he contemplated dismembering her body to get rid of it. The details led Peruvian investigators to believe that Van Der Sloot was a venomous killer whose attempts to set up his alibi and his clear lack of remorse showed that he was cold and calculating—not a psychopath. "There was blood everywhere," Van der Sloot said, according to transcripts of the confession obtained by The Daily Beast. "What am I going to do now? I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Van der Sloot’s lawyer now says he was coerced into giving the confession. He says that the interrogation was tough — both physically and psychologically — and that he was promised that he would be returned to The Netherlands if he confessed to the crime. His lawyer will ask Judge Morales for an official retraction. In the meantime, several news organizations were given access to his cell in the infamous Miguel Castro Castro prison to see the conditions first hand. CNN and ABC report that it is a six-by-10 foot cell with a mattress on a cement frame, a hole in the floor as a toilet, and a sink. He was not in the cell at the time of the walk-through, and his lawyer says he will only grant interviews for a hefty fee. He will remain in solitary confinement away from the general population throughout the pre-trial investigation phase which could take a year or more.

--Barbie Latza Nadeau, author of the Beast Book Angel Face, about Amanda Knox, has reported from Italy for Newsweek Magazine since 1997. She also writes for CNN Traveller, Budget Travel Magazine and Frommer's.



HELLO, Anita!  This is BS. 

Thanks, Nonesuche.

I agree Nonesuche.

The only help Joran needed five years ago was to be held accountable for his crime for once in his stinking life.  She might have been amazed what a wake up call that would have been to her spoiled rotten killer!  He belonged in a prison cell, not in a hospital being catered to like she has catered to him and covered for him his whole life!

Thanks to her, his father and all that helped raise him, and then COVER FOR HIM...two young promising innocent girls lives were taken!

NOW IT'S TIME FOR JUSTICE!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Reno on June 21, 2010, 10:55:43 PM
Drive by post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EM7B8qMqM
 Joran`s mom speaks (preview) ENG-SUB
title says it all, enjoy


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 21, 2010, 10:58:57 PM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 21, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: Joran is a very outgoing person. He's a sweetheart. To me, he's very warm. We spend Easter vacation in Florida together to visit his school, and we had a lot of fun together, went to Busch Gardens (search), and he was getting me cups of coffee and making jokes. He's very outgoing, loving, caring, fights with his brothers all the time, but I think that's pretty normal. We cannot get him out of bed in the morning to go to school, but once he's there, he's doing great. He got picked up on the morning of his graduation. He graduated with honor, all As and Bs. He did some AP, advanced courses, physics, calculus, AP English.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 21, 2010, 11:06:15 PM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.

I agree Magnolia, and I don't believe Natalee died with a single accidental injury either.  JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 11:07:02 PM
Magnolia, that interview is on the same page as the above link and yrs I saw it in print as well.
Too many people were raising that issue at the time and I remeber also seeing that he was seeing a psychm counselor, whatever it was for anger management- to downplay the more severe nature of his problem, I'm sure.
I wonder if they ever got any help for Sebastiaan. How can you live with that knowing someone capapble of taking your life is just around the corner at any time.With little or no provocation.
anira prided herself and reminded us many times of her excellence in recognizing problems in children, being a " professor" and all.
eye roll
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 11:09:02 PM
Texasmom, I think he gets ebraged when his victims leave him, too....by dying on him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 11:10:06 PM
Lots of typoes there so pick thru and make sense where you will,..lol.
S


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 21, 2010, 11:24:25 PM
Drive by post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EM7B8qMqM
 Joran`s mom speaks (preview) ENG-SUB
title says it all, enjoy

Thank you!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 21, 2010, 11:29:00 PM
Drive by post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EM7B8qMqM
 Joran`s mom speaks (preview) ENG-SUB
title says it all, enjoy

Thank you!

She wants pity. What they need to do is expose all of her social networking messages.

She needs a shovel to the face.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 21, 2010, 11:32:24 PM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.

I agree Magnolia, and I don't believe Natalee died with a single accidental injury either.  JMO

I think Natalee died with some kind of violent blow to the head administered by Joran.
I don't know if he hit her with a bat or bashed her head on a rock or stomped her. They
were all trying to explain a head injury from the beginning. 

Then there is the seizure issue that kept popping up.  The seizure was caused by a head injury. 
All just my opinion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Port Valerie on June 21, 2010, 11:34:12 PM

I am so angry that the Peruvian system allows Joran to profit while detained ... profit from the horrific murder of one of their own.  It is so wrong.

Janet


I'm not worried about that. Where can he spend it? They'll get it all back in the prison system, for delivering food and water.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 11:41:57 PM
Magnolia even in his lies there are a shred of truth...she fell and hit her head was a way to cover that she had a head injury, even in lying he can't help but allow something real to escape.
she was in and out of consciousness ( in the car) he left her ( on the beach ) unconscious.
How many times does he mention consciousness, head injury...he is telling the truth in these statements but not at the times and places where they occurred
IMHO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 21, 2010, 11:46:32 PM
Magnolia even in his lies there are a shred of truth...she fell and hit her head was a way to cover that she had a head injury, even in lying he can't help but allow something real to escape.
she was in and out of consciousness ( in the car) he left her ( on the beach ) unconscious.
How many times does he mention consciousness, head injury...he is telling the truth in these statements but not at the times and places where they occurred
IMHO

Seems like Aruba could have figured that out.  They had a lot more information than a bunch of
Monkeys had.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 21, 2010, 11:48:47 PM
Van der Stratten was the godfather, Croes was the translator at the Sloots that night the Holloways arrived. They knew.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: wreck on June 21, 2010, 11:57:18 PM
Van der Stratten was the godfather, Croes was the translator at the Sloots that night the Holloways arrived. They knew.
You have to wonder why the whole island was afraid to spill the beans about Joran. EVERYONE knew about his anger issues and violence against classmates and siblings. Why was everyone so afraid to speak out??????? They MUST have been VERY afraid of who they would anger.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 12:00:12 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/BINGO.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/2-3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)


Anita Van der sloot furiously at work trying to get her son mental help.

Date: April 25,2010


She was working on it at the International School of Aruba`s PTO Bingo Game.

Place: Westin Resort Aruba



http://www.isaruba.com/Students%20life/Pictures/quarter4.html#


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 22, 2010, 12:00:49 AM
This has to do with the same incident we all saw RenHo at a few days ago...

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3750&offId=0

9 hora happen | fecha: 21/06/2010 | horario: 14:34

recherche by distrito north owing to detene one by the 2 sospechosonan by the action y tiramento at monserat, besides owing to confisca 2 vehiculo y several cosnan more

monday morning recherche by distrito north is trahando constantemente on the caso by action y tiramento by week happen at monserat, finalmente today recherche owing to succeed laydown hand on the primer sospechoso just at instant cu the was yegando her cas in semeleerstraat. at once recherchenan owing to arrive close dje y owing to informe cu the is deteni. after by cu the sospechoso self owing to say \"dal bay\" autoridad owing to come into the cas y owing to confisca all locual they have to for her investigacion. autoridad owing to confisca the.o. 2 vehiculo, one engine by boat several mac ream, several arm blanco cu was hinca in nachtkastje, peluca, laptop, y several another articulo more. the investigacion is follow y still miss before detene the another sospechoso, at present if the sospechoso is know before her same good the is bay entrega her self at keep by shaba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:02:18 AM
Paul must have had a lot of ammo, buit someone higher up sould spill the beans on Paul. Remember he recently failed his judges test. His "friend" who put out the bio about Paul being the merry marcher at carnival, taking the plummy job of procuring contracts on Aruba, Anita - teacher of Artictic formattion, blablabla,..said HE WILL NEVER BE A JUDGE////how did he know that? Psychic? No, they would never allow Paul that much power. But there is someone over him, Keeper of the Secrets...whoever that may be. Some people said it was Jossy. Maybe it is ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: robots on June 22, 2010, 12:03:40 AM
Robots will be back in 5 minutes,  he just got down hurling his GUTS out for 20 minutes straight,  too many pictures of ANITA for him to handle



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 22, 2010, 12:08:42 AM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.


someone else has probably already responded to this, but yes, when Greta and Beth were there...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 22, 2010, 12:11:21 AM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.

I agree Magnolia, and I don't believe Natalee died with a single accidental injury either.  JMO

I think Natalee died with some kind of violent blow to the head administered by Joran.
I don't know if he hit her with a bat or bashed her head on a rock or stomped her. They
were all trying to explain a head injury from the beginning. 

Then there is the seizure issue that kept popping up.  The seizure was caused by a head injury. 
All just my opinion.

In the back of my brain somewhere, I want to think a baseball bat.  There is a reason for it, but I cannot recall why.  Does anyone else recall reason I am inclined to think baseball bat.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 12:14:11 AM
Viet Vet kept talking about it in his posts. He was on the ground in Aruba - this is what he says.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 12:14:51 AM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.


Yes, Anita said he fights with his brothers in one of her "Praise Joran" spiels and she said it with a little smirk as though it were nothing unusual at all.

Another time I time I think she said kicks or kicked his brothers but again as though it were nothing.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 12:18:29 AM
Viet Vet kept talking about it in his posts. He was on the ground in Aruba - this is what he says.

I believe he said they were told baseball bat by the same person who said Joran was sleeping at the school.  Turned out Joran was in fact sleeping at the school so he tended to believe the part about the baseball bat as well.

Personally, I think it could have been that or a rock, just don't know but do think head injury for sure.

I tried to think overdose all these years as that would be so much easier a death than this but after Stephany, it's hard to think anything other than brutality and violence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 12:19:33 AM
Robots, it's hard to know who is more sickening--Joran or Anita.  They are both pretty bad.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 12:21:56 AM
This has to do with the same incident we all saw RenHo at a few days ago...

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3750&offId=0

9 hora happen | fecha: 21/06/2010 | horario: 14:34

recherche by distrito north owing to detene one by the 2 sospechosonan by the action y tiramento at monserat, besides owing to confisca 2 vehiculo y several cosnan more

monday morning recherche by distrito north is trahando constantemente on the caso by action y tiramento by week happen at monserat, finalmente today recherche owing to succeed laydown hand on the primer sospechoso just at instant cu the was yegando her cas in semeleerstraat. at once recherchenan owing to arrive close dje y owing to informe cu the is deteni. after by cu the sospechoso self owing to say \"dal bay\" autoridad owing to come into the cas y owing to confisca all locual they have to for her investigacion. autoridad owing to confisca the.o. 2 vehiculo, one engine by boat several mac ream, several arm blanco cu was hinca in nachtkastje, peluca, laptop, y several another articulo more. the investigacion is follow y still miss before detene the another sospechoso, at present if the sospechoso is know before her same good the is bay entrega her self at keep by shaba.

Looks like alot of stolen stuff


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:23:29 AM
Anna this is why I prefer to read the transcripts. the smiles smirks shrugs are too much for me. The ACTING is terrible anyway. Anyone who knows human nature can see through the charades.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 22, 2010, 12:24:28 AM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.


someone else has probably already responded to this, but yes, when Greta and Beth were there...

Thanks, Tyler.
I can see her telling it.  It was when Paulus was doing all that sweating, I think.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:25:08 AM
This has to do with the same incident we all saw RenHo at a few days ago...

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=3750&offId=0

9 hora happen | fecha: 21/06/2010 | horario: 14:34

recherche by distrito north owing to detene one by the 2 sospechosonan by the action y tiramento at monserat, besides owing to confisca 2 vehiculo y several cosnan more

monday morning recherche by distrito north is trahando constantemente on the caso by action y tiramento by week happen at monserat, finalmente today recherche owing to succeed laydown hand on the primer sospechoso just at instant cu the was yegando her cas in semeleerstraat. at once recherchenan owing to arrive close dje y owing to informe cu the is deteni. after by cu the sospechoso self owing to say \"dal bay\" autoridad owing to come into the cas y owing to confisca all locual they have to for her investigacion. autoridad owing to confisca the.o. 2 vehiculo, one engine by boat several mac ream, several arm blanco cu was hinca in nachtkastje, peluca, laptop, y several another articulo more. the investigacion is follow y still miss before detene the another sospechoso, at present if the sospechoso is know before her same good the is bay entrega her self at keep by shaba.

Looks like alot of stolen stuff
Was this all the stuff on the back of the truck, are they sating the ownder is coming to ID those items? I saw two motorcycles, looked like a boat engine, guns...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 22, 2010, 12:25:23 AM

I am so angry that the Peruvian system allows Joran to profit while detained ... profit from the horrific murder of one of their own.  It is so wrong.

Janet


I'm not worried about that. Where can he spend it? They'll get it all back in the prison system, for delivering food and water.



I would imagine the lawyers are there cleaning the kitty as it is fed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 12:25:48 AM
Viet Vet kept talking about it in his posts. He was on the ground in Aruba - this is what he says.

I believe he said they were told baseball bat by the same person who said Joran was sleeping at the school.  Turned out Joran was in fact sleeping at the school so he tended to believe the part about the baseball bat as well.

Personally, I think it could have been that or a rock, just don't know but do think head injury for sure.

I tried to think overdose all these years as that would be so much easier a death than this but after Stephany, it's hard to think anything other than brutality and violence.

Brutality is Joran`s leading hallmark. It is virtually impossible that it was any other way. Nat probably had a drug in her. Another Joran signature... but she still had enough energy to scream out the car window: Wahoo Aruba! She had plenty of fight left in her.

Joran basically f`s up everything he touches. I am almost sure as a child he even screwed up a wet dream or two? He is a walking man made disaster.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 22, 2010, 12:26:13 AM
Magnolia even in his lies there are a shred of truth...she fell and hit her head was a way to cover that she had a head injury, even in lying he can't help but allow something real to escape.
she was in and out of consciousness ( in the car) he left her ( on the beach ) unconscious.
How many times does he mention consciousness, head injury...he is telling the truth in these statements but not at the times and places where they occurred
IMHO

Nor is he telling the truth about how they occurred. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Reno on June 22, 2010, 12:28:02 AM
Another drive Tuesday morning De Telegraaf is out

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rssonline.nl%2Frel_5389724_joran-bekende-alleen-om-uitlevering.aspx&sl=nl&tl=en

Be careful reading this. Put all drinks down first. I will not take responsibility for any keyboards or monitors that get ruined if you vomit on them


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: robots on June 22, 2010, 12:28:56 AM
Robots, it's hard to know who is more sickening--Joran or Anita.  They are both pretty bad.

ohhh, i agree with you Bana..... errr  Anna   

its hard to tell them apart


im sorry, im just teasing you...

why am i so silly


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: robots on June 22, 2010, 12:34:50 AM
he is a parasite,

and on the verge of being squished


Sporter??     looks like a tub of  guts to me


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: martini on June 22, 2010, 12:35:09 AM
No... Hurricane heading to aruba yet! Just a mess in the gulf of MEXICO!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:35:15 AM
Magnolia even in his lies there are a shred of truth...she fell and hit her head was a way to cover that she had a head injury, even in lying he can't help but allow something real to escape.
she was in and out of consciousness ( in the car) he left her ( on the beach ) unconscious.
How many times does he mention consciousness, head injury...he is telling the truth in these statements but not at the times and places where they occurred
IMHO

Nor is he telling the truth about how they occurred. 

Well,...of course not, she fell ( while I ) hit her head.
there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 22, 2010, 12:35:36 AM
Robots will be back in 5 minutes,  he just got down hurling his GUTS out for 20 minutes straight,  too many pictures of ANITA for him to handle



She makes me want to hurl too Robots.  She's disgusting.  And some of the commentators I've heard tonight on the tube that "feel" for her since she seems to maybe finally be seeing the light make me want to hurl too.  She's known ALL ALONG the monster she created.  I feel nothing but disgust for her.  When I think of all the slander of Natalee and Beth that she's promoted and participated in for five years, I get too mad for my own good.  I don't think I'll ever be capable of an iota of sympathy for her!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 12:37:14 AM
Tue June 22, 2010, 5:30


"I wish I had listened to my mother '
Joran talk, but not right

by John van den Heuvel and Bert Houses



LIMA (Peru) - Joran van der Sloot has refused to answer every question from the investigating judge Peruvian Carlos Morales.




http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7010893/__Joran_praat__maar_niet_met_rechter__.html



He was yesterday brought before the court in the heavily guarded Castro Castro prison in Lima. This took place in presence of his lawyer Máximo Altez.

Joran's interview, which appears today in this newspaper, resulted yesterday in the U.S. media to a flood of publications. Most major news channels opened with the declaration that Joran claims to have been deceived and withdraw his statements.

He would have made a confession, with the promise that he would soon be extradited. Meanwhile, raises questions about the role of the FBI. There is a growing number of indications that the federal police surrounding the death of Stephany Flores an undercover operation against Joran performed. In the hotel where the girl was found, for example, show the total lack of security cameras that were designed to hang in room 309.

The cameras are not standard and are hung in every case removed, it revealed yesterday during a visit to the Hotel in Lima Tac.

The Chinese family, who run the hotel, has a gag order. Stayed in the hotel along with Joran a poker player, possibly an American agent, who persuaded him to come to Lima. He was also the hotel it indirectly reminded that Joran was gone and the room had to be initiated. The presumption is that the Peruvian police, the FBI also received the observation images. Joran told The Associated Press that this man, Elton Garcia everything for him "was arranged and paid for"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:39:38 AM
Robots will be back in 5 minutes,  he just got down hurling his GUTS out for 20 minutes straight,  too many pictures of ANITA for him to handle



She makes me want to hurl too Robots.  She's disgusting.  And some of the commentators I've heard tonight on the tube that "feel" for her since she seems to maybe finally be seeing the light make me want to hurl too.  She's known ALL ALONG the monster she created.  I feel nothing but disgust for her.  When I think of all the slander of Natalee and Beth that she's promoted and participated in for five years, I get too mad for my own good.  I don't think I'll ever be capable of an iota of sympathy for her!

Pauls carrer, not to mention Paul, is kaput now. Nothing to salvage there. Her sunset years will be forever ruined.
No crowns, no Patroness of the Arts awards, no talent there. and now Joran goes and fooks up again.
Oy vey.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 12:40:17 AM
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7010893/__Joran_praat__maar_niet_met_rechter__.html?view=print

Through translator:

"I wish I had listened to my mother '
Joran talk, but not right
by John van den Heuvel and Bert Houses
LIMA (Peru) - Joran van der Sloot has refused to answer every question from the investigating judge Peruvian Carlos Morales.

He was yesterday brought before the court in the heavily guarded Castro Castro prison in Lima. This took place in presence of his lawyer Máximo Altez.

Joran's interview, which appears today in this newspaper, resulted yesterday in the U.S. media to a flood of publications. Most major news channels opened with the declaration that Joran claims to have been deceived and withdraw his statements.

He would have made a confession, with the promise that he would soon be extradited. Meanwhile, raises questions about the role of the FBI. There is a growing number of indications that the federal police surrounding the death of Stephany Flores an undercover operation against Joran performed. In the hotel where the girl was found, for example, show the total lack of security cameras that were designed to hang in room 309.

The cameras are not standard and are hung in every case removed, it revealed yesterday during a visit to the Hotel in Lima Tac.

The Chinese family, who run the hotel, has a gag order. Stayed in the hotel along with Joran a poker player, possibly an American agent, who persuaded him to come to Lima. He was also the hotel it indirectly reminded that Joran was gone and the room had to be initiated. The presumption is that the Peruvian police, the FBI also received the observation images. Joran told The Associated Press that this man, Elton Garcia everything for him "was arranged and paid for".

Lots of BS in this article


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:43:03 AM
Tue June 22, 2010, 5:30


"I wish I had listened to my mother '
Joran talk, but not right

by John van den Heuvel and Bert Houses



LIMA (Peru) - Joran van der Sloot has refused to answer every question from the investigating judge Peruvian Carlos Morales.




http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7010893/__Joran_praat__maar_niet_met_rechter__.html



He was yesterday brought before the court in the heavily guarded Castro Castro prison in Lima. This took place in presence of his lawyer Máximo Altez.

Joran's interview, which appears today in this newspaper, resulted yesterday in the U.S. media to a flood of publications. Most major news channels opened with the declaration that Joran claims to have been deceived and withdraw his statements.

He would have made a confession, with the promise that he would soon be extradited. Meanwhile, raises questions about the role of the FBI. There is a growing number of indications that the federal police surrounding the death of Stephany Flores an undercover operation against Joran performed. In the hotel where the girl was found, for example, show the total lack of security cameras that were designed to hang in room 309.

The cameras are not standard and are hung in every case removed, it revealed yesterday during a visit to the Hotel in Lima Tac.

The Chinese family, who run the hotel, has a gag order. Stayed in the hotel along with Joran a poker player, possibly an American agent, who persuaded him to come to Lima. He was also the hotel it indirectly reminded that Joran was gone and the room had to be initiated. The presumption is that the Peruvian police, the FBI also received the observation images. Joran told The Associated Press that this man, Elton Garcia everything for him "was arranged and paid for"

I knew that Elton Garcia was a hink meter. Albanians are heavies in the Toronto "group" of Aruban related "businessmen".
I wonder where he is now since it was reported that he couldn't leave the country.
was he babysitting Joran?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 12:43:46 AM
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7010893/__Joran_praat__maar_niet_met_rechter__.html?view=print

Through translator:

"I wish I had listened to my mother '
Joran talk, but not right
by John van den Heuvel and Bert Houses
LIMA (Peru) - Joran van der Sloot has refused to answer every question from the investigating judge Peruvian Carlos Morales.

He was yesterday brought before the court in the heavily guarded Castro Castro prison in Lima. This took place in presence of his lawyer Máximo Altez.

Joran's interview, which appears today in this newspaper, resulted yesterday in the U.S. media to a flood of publications. Most major news channels opened with the declaration that Joran claims to have been deceived and withdraw his statements.

He would have made a confession, with the promise that he would soon be extradited. Meanwhile, raises questions about the role of the FBI. There is a growing number of indications that the federal police surrounding the death of Stephany Flores an undercover operation against Joran performed. In the hotel where the girl was found, for example, show the total lack of security cameras that were designed to hang in room 309.

The cameras are not standard and are hung in every case removed, it revealed yesterday during a visit to the Hotel in Lima Tac.

The Chinese family, who run the hotel, has a gag order. Stayed in the hotel along with Joran a poker player, possibly an American agent, who persuaded him to come to Lima. He was also the hotel it indirectly reminded that Joran was gone and the room had to be initiated. The presumption is that the Peruvian police, the FBI also received the observation images. Joran told The Associated Press that this man, Elton Garcia everything for him "was arranged and paid for".

Lot's of BS in this article

I hope they keep the spin wars up, though.

It enrages, enflames, and infuriates. This gives a tremendous battery charge!

It is going to get him slaughtered.

Which is precisely what I want.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Port Valerie on June 22, 2010, 12:44:27 AM

I am so angry that the Peruvian system allows Joran to profit while detained ... profit from the horrific murder of one of their own.  It is so wrong.

Janet


I'm not worried about that. Where can he spend it? They'll get it all back in the prison system, for delivering food and water.



I would imagine the lawyers are there cleaning the kitty as it is fed.

Okay with me as long as the money stays in Peru and doesn't go back to Aruba.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: martini on June 22, 2010, 12:46:04 AM
Quote
The Chinese family , who run the hotel , has a gag order . stayed in the hotel along with Joran a poker player , possibly an American agent , who persuaded him to come to Lima . He was also the hotel it indirectly reminded that Joran was gone and the room had to be initiated . The presumption is that the Peruvian police , the FBI also received the observation images . Joran told The Associated Press that this man , Elton Garcia everything for him " was arranged and paid for " .

a gag order...

Elton Garcia???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 12:50:18 AM
Surely this article is not based on the fact that the cameras are not in the hotel right now.

DUH!  Did they ever think that the police have confiscated them as evidence???

Or have I misunderstood something?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 22, 2010, 12:51:35 AM
Have we heard of Elton Garcia before?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 22, 2010, 12:52:11 AM
Robots will be back in 5 minutes,  he just got down hurling his GUTS out for 20 minutes straight,  too many pictures of ANITA for him to handle



LOL! Aw, Robots, you've just had too many puffs of that celebration cigar!  <wink>

Hi All! I've been in State Inspectorship Hell all day, but I have to share something with you guys. I was at my desk when the State Inspectors "surprise visited" us (about as much fun as those monthly visits we ladies so look forward to). Anyway, I had an article about Joran up on my computer when they showed up, so I quickly hit minimize and went out to face them. Later, I offered my desk for them to review charts, and when I stuck my head in to ask for clarification from the list of documents they were requesting, one of the inspectors had pulled up the article. I held my breath for a minute, not knowing what to say, and she turned to me and said, "I'm so sorry, but I couldn't resist........... I hope they fry that guy! He killed Natalee Holloway as well as that girl from Peru!"  LOL!

I so wanted to say, "Yes, he did, and if you could just go somewhere else, I could keep up with what's going on!" They'll be back tomorrow, but hopefully get done then.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:52:19 AM
Sounds like Elton Garcia had an appointment with Joran for "collections"? and maybe Joran couldn't win back all the money he lost[ wasn't he $6000 in debt from gambling BEFORE he left Aruba?)  ) or maybe he paid out partially on his loan) so he decided to rob Stephany as a last ditch effort and get out of dodge pronto because he was paranoid about more than being followed?
Just thinking aloud although the simplest theory is usually the one that fits. He's a maniac.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:53:21 AM
Magnolia I brought him up but no one responded. I will look for the video of him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 12:54:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY62MfkkmoY


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 12:56:05 AM
From June 7:

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/joran-may-face-vigilante-justice-jail

Joran may face vigilante justice in jail
By Iain Macintyre
Created 7 June 2010 10:44
Joran van der Sloot is handed over to the Peruvian authorities

Once Joran van der Sloot is released from police custody after a week, the media in Peru say he will be transferred to the Miguel Castro Castro prison on the outskirts of Lima. This is a maximum security jail for serious offenders, including murderers and rapists. It holds 4,000 prisoners. Those who can pay rent a cell for themselves, those who can't sleep in the corridors. Often several men have to share a bed.

A couple of years ago the Peruvian newspaper Correo described how a number of inmates convicted of raping minors were killed by their fellow convicts. A psychologist told the paper: "There is a pecking order in the world of violent criminals. Crimes against helpless women and children are considered cowardly and are punished."

Dutch daily De Telegraaf reports that Peruvian police think Stephany Flores may have been killed with a tennis racket. Apparently a great deal of blood was found both in the hotel bed and in the bathroom. Police are investigating skin found under the dead girl's fingernails and shoe prints found between the bed and the bathroom.

De Telegraaf also claims that the body of Stephany Flores was found as the result of a tip from 35-year-old poker player Elton Garcia. He was staying in the same hotel as Joran van der Sloot and played poker with him and Stephany Flores. According to Elton Garcia's police statement, when the Dutchman failed to appear for an appointment he began to worry and asked the hotel management if he could look in Joran's room.

I think the article from today that I just posted may have some translation issues


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 22, 2010, 12:57:20 AM
Robots will be back in 5 minutes,  he just got down hurling his GUTS out for 20 minutes straight,  too many pictures of ANITA for him to handle



She makes me want to hurl too Robots.  She's disgusting.  And some of the commentators I've heard tonight on the tube that "feel" for her since she seems to maybe finally be seeing the light make me want to hurl too.  She's known ALL ALONG the monster she created.  I feel nothing but disgust for her.  When I think of all the slander of Natalee and Beth that she's promoted and participated in for five years, I get too mad for my own good.  I don't think I'll ever be capable of an iota of sympathy for her!

I know better than to listen to Joy Behar for various reasons, but she had the sympathy crew.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 12:57:54 AM
Surely this article is not based on the fact that the cameras are not in the hotel right now.

DUH!  Did they ever think that the police have confiscated them as evidence???

Or have I misunderstood something?

I think there are translation issues and I also believe most of that article is stuff that JORAN is claiming and not fact.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 01:01:34 AM
That link to all those Dutch articles is pretty bad.  They seem to take some sort of sick pride in the fact that Joran refused to speak to the judge.

Well, he can recant and add ten more years to his sentence.  It's his choice.

Not very smart, IMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 22, 2010, 01:02:22 AM
That link to all those Dutch articles is pretty bad.  They seem to take some sort of sick pride in the fact that Joran refused to speak to the judge.

Well, he can recant and add ten more years to his sentence.  It's his choice.

Not very smart, IMO.

These were probably some of the attorneys/judges that wanted Saddam Hussein to be rewarded for killing his people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 01:05:18 AM
Magnolia I brought him up but no one responded. I will look for the video of him.


Well, now he has gone from just some guy Joran met in the Casino to the latest version of the security guards?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 01:05:55 AM
To my knowledge, Joran had EG's number in his cell, Elton stayed at the TAC. the lounge singer ( R blades) said he overheard Elton and Joran talking about women and moved away from their table at the casino...a few days before Stephany went missing. And that the singer alerted security about who Van der Sloot was but by the time security arrived Sloot had left. Then the next day the singer was informed ) by security but no one at the casino verified this) that Stephany was killed.
Garcia was registered to play in the Latin American Poker stars tournament. Joran said he met him May 14th. He is Albanian, Uruguayian naturalized citizen. He called the TAC the morning Jorans room was entered because Joran had an appointment with him, at 9 AM IIRC.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: KCJackie on June 22, 2010, 01:06:41 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc. 

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 22, 2010, 01:06:55 AM
Robots will be back in 5 minutes,  he just got down hurling his GUTS out for 20 minutes straight,  too many pictures of ANITA for him to handle



She makes me want to hurl too Robots.  She's disgusting.  And some of the commentators I've heard tonight on the tube that "feel" for her since she seems to maybe finally be seeing the light make me want to hurl too.  She's known ALL ALONG the monster she created.  I feel nothing but disgust for her.  When I think of all the slander of Natalee and Beth that she's promoted and participated in for five years, I get too mad for my own good.  I don't think I'll ever be capable of an iota of sympathy for her!

I know better than to listen to Joy Behar for various reasons, but she had the sympathy crew.

Yep, that's the show I was talking about!  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 01:08:05 AM
Magnolia I brought him up but no one responded. I will look for the video of him.


Well, now he has gone from just some guy Joran met in the Casino to the latest version of the security guards?

I am waiting to see what they find out about Garcia. Curious.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: texasmom on June 22, 2010, 01:12:30 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_Grad00o9.jpg)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/StephanyFlores_1.jpg)

Truth & Justice
for Natalee and Stephany!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 01:12:46 AM
Selena, What who finds out about Garcia?  The PLE or the Dutch reporters?

Is there anything to find out?

I kind of think Joran is trying to set him up same as he did the security guards.  Maybe he was collecting gambling debt from Joran?

Or is it all just grasping at straws?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 01:16:09 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc.  

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)



Good to see you KCJackie!  Check in the Important Case Document area.  Also you can google Maps Aruba and you will see several tourist maps that show most of the locations:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=6.0

http://www.arubatravelinfo.com/attractionsmap.html

http://www.visitaruba.com/accommodations/hotels-and-resorts-map/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 01:18:26 AM
Selena, What who finds out about Garcia?  The PLE or the Dutch reporters?

Is there anything to find out?

I kind of think Joran is trying to set him up same as he did the security guards.  Maybe he was collecting gambling debt from Joran?

Or is it all just grasping at straws?

Maybe there is nothing more to know. He supposedly played poker with Joran and Stephany, May 27th. He was worried they were kidnapped- alledgedly. He tapped out of the tournament on the 26th, I think, supposedly checked out of the TAC on the Sunday before the murder and was told by the police not to leave the country.
Maybe it's a big nothing.
I just noticed that he was Albanian and I read that the Albanians are connected to the Toronto arm of the Cuarentas of Aruban notoriety.
something rings a bell.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 01:18:28 AM
It is out of the old play book... the one that was used in Aruba.

Let`s see what we can find wrong with the security cams.

The video footage.

Who was with Joran? Can we cast doubt blame and suspicion on these people?

Let`s get them looking in as many possible directions as we can.

Meanwhile, we are furiously hard at work behind the curtain trying

to set a two time homicidal maniac loose on the public, once again.

It will not work twice.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: KCJackie on June 22, 2010, 01:23:19 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc. 

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)





Good to see you KCJackie!  Check in the Important Case Document area.  Also you can google Maps Aruba and you will see several tourist maps that show most of the locations:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=6.0

Thank You Klaas! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Reno on June 22, 2010, 01:29:33 AM
Marriage proposals for Joran van der Sloot

(Novum) - Joran van der Sloot has since he is in prison for several marriage proposals of Peruvian women had.  To sue his a letter to his attorney, he Tuesday in an interview in The Telegraph.

 He has much to offer them time being. He suggested would with a watery tea and dry bread. In the afternoon he gets rice and beans. In addition, extra food they buy.

Van der Sloot, the newspaper realizes that many Peruvians have his blood to drink. In prison, he remains therefore preferred in the current cell where he sits in prison because he was not very popular.

His neighbor, an assassin, would occasionally "jokes" that make him best for $ 75,000 to murder.  "But I can do to find him."

Earlier, De Telegraaf already known that Van der Sloot claims he only signed a confession statement, because he was promised that he would be entitled to the Netherlands. Now he says that they were threatened during interrogations, his head in a bucket of water to stop if he was not cooperating. He would not be abused.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rssonline.nl%2Frel_5389724_joran-bekende-alleen-om-uitlevering.aspx&sl=nl&tl=en

---
Crazy stuff coming out of the netherlands


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 01:29:45 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/monster.jpg)

When you FOCUS on the kill.

Nothing else exists.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 01:30:35 AM
carpe,
I am not thinking he did anything to Stephany, just that he happened to be in Jorans cellphone and stayed at the same place at the same time. He's a poker player and so is Joran. His name could be Joe Schmoe and no one cares. I am just curious to see if he has any ties to Aruba, Posner, et al.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 01:34:37 AM
Selena, Wasn't there an Albanian killed in an elevator in one of the hotels in Aruba once?  Or was that a Bulgarian?  Some mob connection or other.

Can't remember now. . .


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 01:41:26 AM
carpe,
I am not thinking he did anything to Stephany, just that he happened to be in Jorans cellphone and stayed at the same place at the same time. He's a poker player and so is Joran. His name could be Joe Schmoe and no one cares. I am just curious to see if he has any ties to Aruba, Posner, et al.

Gotcha, Selena. I wasn`t pointing those posts at you. I just see Joran and his crew at work throwing dopplegangers and ghost bogey men out there.

...and I would like for them to hear loud and clear...

This time, we are going to pave this mother.

His deal is going to be sealed.


He can take as many out with him as he likes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 01:42:22 AM
Selena, Wasn't there an Albanian killed in an elevator in one of the hotels in Aruba once?  Or was that a Bulgarian?  Some mob connection or other.

Can't remember now. . .
I remember something like that, too. I'm just waiting to see what develops. Maybe nothing. Joran acted alone and on his own volition, no one set him up. But I could see something else happening that would make him whack out and it would be more than a gambling addiction and that would be a gambling debt that he can't pay. Maybe someone cqalled in his marker and it made him feel watched, suspicious, etc....but then it is Joran and he pissed off a few people in Aruba and Paul isn't there to pay people off or grant them favors, Anita is " done" with him.
Too many Aruban nightmares...maybe he is nothing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 22, 2010, 01:44:18 AM
CBB poor you ! I hope they leave quickly tomorrow!

I'm still working but daughter sent me this too, it's actually a good review of the mental illness disability that Anita's trying to affect for her sporter, by an expert that blows holes in it. Caution though, at the end he does mention Natalee's whereabouts as possible leverage........

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/van-der-sloot-framed-10968714

As for the video, I was relieved to see one of the reports posted today mentioning Stephany and Joran having met several days earlier than the 30th at the casino, and having interacted for "several days". That means that casino video is yielding value and I don't think the sporter can allege the FBI tinkered with that too.

He's very paranoid but then, he's guilty of some heinous crimes so why wouldn't he see a ghost around every corner? ;)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 01:44:35 AM
Oh thank you Carpe! Please don't banish me to the whackadoodle room!
:))


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 01:47:04 AM
On that note I'm off to bed. Must be the five year anniversary getting to me.
:))
Selena


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: nonesuche on June 22, 2010, 01:47:05 AM
carpe,
I am not thinking he did anything to Stephany, just that he happened to be in Jorans cellphone and stayed at the same place at the same time. He's a poker player and so is Joran. His name could be Joe Schmoe and no one cares. I am just curious to see if he has any ties to Aruba, Posner, et al.

Gotcha, Selena. I wasn`t pointing those posts at you. I just see Joran and his crew at work throwing dopplegangers and ghost bogey men out there.

...and I would like for them to hear loud and clear...

This time, we are going to pave this mother.

His deal is going to be sealed.


He can take as many out with him as he likes.

LOL I had just posted about ghosts prior to reading your post.

One has to wonder how the rest of the general prison population will feel about Joran knowing he's getting 'special privileges' they are not? I suspect that won't sit well with them and may increase their motivation to harm him - much less if they hear he's getting paid handsomely for his jailhouse interviews.

I bet Joran hears footsteps all day, all night, and they aren't just his new rat bunkmates either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 01:53:00 AM
I got the paper version of De Telegraaf right here and what they say about Elton Garcia is this:

-when the police questioned him, he had on him all the papers (I think what they mean by papers is identification etc.) of an FBI-agent, suggesting that he in fact is an FBI-agent
-they suggest that they wanted to continue the sting operation that started in Aruba, in Peru, so Joran could be extradited to the US at some point
-Elton Garcia invited Joran to Peru, paying for everything
-Elton and Joran didn't know each other very well, but Elton was the one who called the hotel on Tuesday asking for Joran
-Joran now feels/knows he was being set up by this Garcia guy - in order to continue the sting operation in Peru

So, Stephany was probably the factor that they didn't take into account... poor girl...


Got to get to work now, will try to translate the whole interview later.
But I scanned the last few pages here and I think most of it is already posted here.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 22, 2010, 01:54:26 AM
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/BINGO.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/2-3.jpg)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/ISABingo_04252010_4.jpg)


Anita Van der sloot furiously at work trying to get her son mental help.

Date: April 25,2010


She was working on it at the International School of Aruba`s PTO Bingo Game.

Place: Westin Resort Aruba



http://www.isaruba.com/Students%20life/Pictures/quarter4.html#

Honestly, this picture scares the BEJEESus out of me.......does anyone else look at this picture and see evil...... Oh, and Anita......I see now.....you haven't seen Joran in a while........here you are busily ignoring him.......dear God, what monsters......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 22, 2010, 01:57:53 AM
I got the paper version of De Telegraaf right here and what they say about Elton Garcia is this:

-when the police questioned him, he had on him all the papers (I think what they mean by papers is identification etc.) of an FBI-agent, suggesting that he in fact is an FBI-agent
-they suggest that they wanted to continue the sting operation that started in Aruba, in Peru, so Joran could be extradited to the US at some point
-Elton Garcia invited Joran to Peru, paying for everything
-Elton and Joran didn't know each other very well, but Elton was the one who called the hotel on Tuesday asking for Joran
-Joran now feels/knows he was being set up by this Garcia guy - in order to continue the sting operation in Peru

So, Stephany was probably the factor that they didn't take into account... poor girl...


Got to get to work now, will try to translate the whole interview later.
But I scanned the last few pages here and I think most of it is already posted here.


Holy crap, I hope this is not true...thanks for bringing this....he would have murdered again, but......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: billb's daughter on June 22, 2010, 02:02:20 AM
There are so many parallels that can be drawn from Stephany's fate through evidence collected/confessions of urine and what we have gleamed from Natalee's fate.
urine is a psychopath and a cold blooded murderer, enabled not only by his parents but also those on aruba who cover for him to this day......
Stephany was beaten to death by urine the Monster...
From thedailybeast...posted by nonesuche....urine,"giving gruesome details including how, over breakfast, he contemplated dismembering her body to get rid of it"..... we can see a possible scenario in Natalee's murder.
'Something bad happened' at the sloots residence....
The break in at the fisherman's hut...
the painted rocks...
the persistence discovery of the cage...
Urine took Stephany back to his room after spiking her drink with date rape drugs....
urine took Natalee back to his apartment after spiking her drink with date rape drugs....
Urine wanted to rob Stephany of her winnings...
urine wanted to rob Natalee of her virginity (with a bunch of others, including paulass - gang rape with big bucks for the video)....
Stephany and Natalee fought back and were killed by urine....
Stephany's neck was broken....
Natalee was hit in the head with a baseball bat....(Viet Vet)
urine wanted to dismember Stephany's body to get rid of it....
Natalee was in the sloots bathtub with the top of her head ripped off (Valentine).
urine fled when he had no one to help him dispose of Stephany.......but is working his same play book...retracting his confession......
Blood in deepaks car/trunk....move Natalee to painted rocks to dismember her body.......used knife from fisherman's huts...used cage to put in parts.......spread other parts around island to confuse investigation.....
urine's insane alright...criminally.....
And that will get him a LIFE sentence in a Peruvian prison......
ROBOTS ...if I may....
I HATE THEM ALL.....
 
 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 22, 2010, 02:02:57 AM
carpe,
I am not thinking he did anything to Stephany, just that he happened to be in Jorans cellphone and stayed at the same place at the same time. He's a poker player and so is Joran. His name could be Joe Schmoe and no one cares. I am just curious to see if he has any ties to Aruba, Posner, et al.

Gotcha, Selena. I wasn`t pointing those posts at you. I just see Joran and his crew at work throwing dopplegangers and ghost bogey men out there.

...and I would like for them to hear loud and clear...

This time, we are going to pave this mother.

His deal is going to be sealed.


He can take as many out with him as he likes.

Carpe, I've read you for a long time, do not now if I've talked to you directly....you always seem to know what you are talking about.....I am going to hold you to this.....Joran has got to pay....this world and the next ..........but, I pray to God every night, the most important thing is that Nat is found and laid to rest.....lovely bones.......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: darleenofalabama on June 22, 2010, 02:05:52 AM
Oh, good grief, they ought to go put his head in a bucket of water for saying that.  And, what does he mean he didn't understand what they were doing when he signed that confession; he's had lots of practice being interrogated, he knows what he's doing.

And, hello, Y'all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 22, 2010, 02:12:32 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc. 

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)



Good to see you, how are all the naughty night time monkeys????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 02:20:19 AM
Van der Sloot received marriage proposals

Published: June 22, 2010 7:25
Last updated: June 22, 2010 7:24

AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot has since he is in prison for several marriage proposals of Peruvian women had. To sue his a letter to his attorney, he Tuesday in an interview in The Telegraph.

A woman would even want to become pregnant by him. He has much to offer them time being.
He suggested would with a watery tea and dry bread. In the afternoon he gets rice and beans. In addition, extra food they buy.

Unpopular
Van der Sloot, the newspaper realizes that many Peruvians have his blood to drink. In prison, he remains therefore preferred in the current cell where he sits in prison because he was not very popular.
His neighbor, an assassin, would occasionally "jokes" that make him best for $ 75,000 to murder. "But I can do to find him."
Water bucket
Earlier, De Telegraaf already known that Van der Sloot claims he only signed a confession statement, because he was promised that he would be entitled to the Netherlands. He was the confession in 'blind panic' signed.
Now he says that they were threatened during interrogations, his head in a bucket of water to stop if he was not cooperating. He would not be abused.
Silence
Van der Sloot was interviewed Monday for the first time by a court in Lima, but in so doing shrouded in silent. He wants to force his confession that he was on May 30 Peruvian Stephany Flores would have murdered, is repealed.
Justice said that Van der Sloot and his silence should not slow down the process. The answers to the questioning only a part of all evidence to the responsibility of Van der Sloot to be determined, according to justice.

http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2275141/van-sloot-ontvangt-huwelijksaanzoeken.html

translated by Google


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: billb's daughter on June 22, 2010, 02:22:50 AM
Stephany's Father/family/PLE won't even flinch with whatever anita/nl/high priced defense attys throw at them....
Stephany's Father want justice for his daughter and has tied that to Justice for Natalee.....
He wants urine to be convicted and sentenced for Stephany's murder..
He also wants urine to come clean to provide closure for Beth, jug, and Dave....
He also wants urine to suffer more than Stephany and Natalee did....
urine will never leave Peru alive........
prison justice is awaits urine.......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: billb's daughter on June 22, 2010, 02:24:28 AM
Good Night Good Monkeys......
Justice for both Stephany and Natalee is just around the corner......
Keepthefaith knows....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 22, 2010, 02:27:21 AM
Good Night Good Monkeys......
Justice for both Stephany and Natalee is just around the corner......
Keepthefaith knows....

Night billb, this is one of those nights when I haunt the threads.....sleep eludes me....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: thirdstrike on June 22, 2010, 02:30:18 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc. 

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)



Good to see you, how are all the naughty night time monkeys????

Did some say "naughty monkey's"??  ;)  Speaking of which...hello everyone!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: akmom on June 22, 2010, 02:35:25 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc. 

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)



Good to see you, how are all the naughty night time monkeys????

Did some say "naughty monkey's"??  ;)  Speaking of which...hello everyone!!

He, he, by the time it is night for me most monkeys have gone to bed.....sometimes I have the energy to hang with the naughty monkeys, but only once in a while......they are a rowdy bunch.....night all


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Port Valerie on June 22, 2010, 03:03:35 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc. 

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)



Good to see you, how are all the naughty night time monkeys????

Did some say "naughty monkey's"??  ;)  Speaking of which...hello everyone!!

He, he, by the time it is night for me most monkeys have gone to bed.....sometimes I have the energy to hang with the naughty monkeys, but only once in a while......they are a rowdy bunch.....night all

are not. nite ak. hello third.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Port Valerie on June 22, 2010, 03:14:53 AM
nite.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 03:21:48 AM
I got the paper version of De Telegraaf right here and what they say about Elton Garcia is this:

-when the police questioned him, he had on him all the papers (I think what they mean by papers is identification etc.) of an FBI-agent, suggesting that he in fact is an FBI-agent
-they suggest that they wanted to continue the sting operation that started in Aruba, in Peru, so Joran could be extradited to the US at some point
-Elton Garcia invited Joran to Peru, paying for everything
-Elton and Joran didn't know each other very well, but Elton was the one who called the hotel on Tuesday asking for Joran
-Joran now feels/knows he was being set up by this Garcia guy - in order to continue the sting operation in Peru

So, Stephany was probably the factor that they didn't take into account... poor girl...


Got to get to work now, will try to translate the whole interview later.
But I scanned the last few pages here and I think most of it is already posted here.


Holy crap, I hope this is not true...thanks for bringing this....he would have murdered again, but......

Eeeeeeeeeek!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: canoworms on June 22, 2010, 03:31:12 AM
Selena, Wasn't there an Albanian killed in an elevator in one of the hotels in Aruba once?  Or was that a Bulgarian?  Some mob connection or other.

Can't remember now. . .
I remember something like that, too. I'm just waiting to see what develops. Maybe nothing. Joran acted alone and on his own volition, no one set him up. But I could see something else happening that would make him whack out and it would be more than a gambling addiction and that would be a gambling debt that he can't pay. Maybe someone cqalled in his marker and it made him feel watched, suspicious, etc....but then it is Joran and he pissed off a few people in Aruba and Paul isn't there to pay people off or grant them favors, Anita is " done" with him.
Too many Aruban nightmares...maybe he is nothing.
Wasn't it the hotel where Johns or Jones were working security? It was under construction or remodeling> am I recalling this was early in the NH case ( within days?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 22, 2010, 03:43:06 AM
Hello Monkeys!  Can someone please provide a link or post any maps that pertain to the NH case - such as location of fisherman's hut, Holiday Inn, VDS residence, etc. 

I am sure I have just overlooked the thread and any help would be very much appreciated!  ;)



Good to see you, how are all the naughty night time monkeys????

Naughty?  Pshaw.....



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 22, 2010, 03:44:25 AM


I saw a rat running from his cell.  It was over 6 foot tall and had wild crazy eyes.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 22, 2010, 03:45:58 AM


Please light a candle or two for our girl.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5700.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: crazybabyborg on June 22, 2010, 05:03:15 AM
Well, that took a while to catch up!

Night to all monkeys! This naughty one has an early morning ahead......... in 3 hours!!!

What a jerk, Joran is! In the wise words of Robots........... He's going DOWN!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2010, 05:16:20 AM
I got the paper version of De Telegraaf right here and what they say about Elton Garcia is this:

-when the police questioned him, he had on him all the papers (I think what they mean by papers is identification etc.) of an FBI-agent, suggesting that he in fact is an FBI-agent
-they suggest that they wanted to continue the sting operation that started in Aruba, in Peru, so Joran could be extradited to the US at some point
-Elton Garcia invited Joran to Peru, paying for everything
-Elton and Joran didn't know each other very well, but Elton was the one who called the hotel on Tuesday asking for Joran
-Joran now feels/knows he was being set up by this Garcia guy - in order to continue the sting operation in Peru

So, Stephany was probably the factor that they didn't take into account... poor girl...


Got to get to work now, will try to translate the whole interview later.
But I scanned the last few pages here and I think most of it is already posted here.


Holy crap, I hope this is not true...thanks for bringing this....he would have murdered again, but......

could also just be ID...in that he had all his papers -- passport, national ID, etc.  anything is possible, but i am doubting this. the FBI has said that Aruba was co-operating. this sounds like BS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: justinsmama on June 22, 2010, 05:29:12 AM
She said Stephany DID have amphetamines in her system.  I do not know a lot about drugs, would that be the same type of drug that they thought the wrappers were in her car??

IMO, no

Amphetamines could be prescription diet pills, in other words an "upper".  She may have been taking them to stay awake, or alert to be up all night.

I think roofies are considered a "downer".

But with the time it took to find her body, I don't know if the roofie would still show up!

IMO, because she had amphetamine in her system, the roofie may not have had the full effect since I think they have basically the opposite effect on the system.  In other words they would work against each other if I understand what each does correctly.

If she has ADHD, it may have been a stimulant medication prescribed for her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: IBE on June 22, 2010, 05:51:37 AM
In the last thread or so, I asked if Lourdes Flores was related to Stephany's dad. It was said it was not his wife. In exploring for L. Flores on uTube I found a blurb about her and Peruvian Airlines in it. It was also showing pictures of a race car driver before and after her data. The driver looked like Stephany's dad.

There is a reason, of which I am sorry to say I cannot tell now that I need to know if they are relatives. Lourdes Flores ran for President. I am not sure if she won or not. Stephany's dad ran for vice pres and President.

Would one of our Monkey family summarize what is going on from the beginning of this clip to about the 8:00 mark especially any data, relationships between the race car driver, Lourdes and Peruvian Airlines? I read somewhere that Lourdes is on their board, but wondered why they are referencing a race car drive in the blurb and who he is, and what race he was in. TIA

IBE    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 22, 2010, 05:56:03 AM
Van der Sloot 'emotionally immature,' psych report says
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 21, 2010 11:01 p.m. EDT


http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/21/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T1


Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot has a low tolerance for frustration and "doesn't value the female role," according to excerpts from a psychological investigation report given to a judge by prosecutors Monday.

According to the document, van der Sloot, suspected of killing a Peruvian woman late last month, "does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him. It generates in him a challenging attitude."

The report calls him "emotionally immature," which elicits strong changes in behavior that can send him out of control.

"He reflects a certain dominance over the opposite sex. He doesn't value the female role," the document states.

Its adds, "he presents traits of an anti-social personality" and is "indifferent towards others' well being."

Despite this, the report says, "he doesn't show any psychopathological trauma that impedes him from perceiving and evaluating reality."

Also Monday, Van der Sloot told the judge that his rights and due process were violated after his arrest in connection with the killing of Stefany Flores Ramirez, his attorney told CNN.

The judge will decide on the legality of van der Sloot's incarceration by Wednesday, lawyer Maximo Altez said. If the ruling is unfavorable to van der Sloot, Altez said he is prepared to appeal to the highest court.

While in front of the judge, however, van der Sloot declined to give a formal statement on the facts of the case, according to the court. The reason he gave was the ongoing motion for habeas corpus, which he hopes will nullify the statements he gave to police that led to his imprisonment.

Van der Sloot's decision will not hold up the legal proceedings against him, the court said.

Meanwhile, in a Dutch newspaper article published Monday, van der Sloot says he was "tricked" into confessing to the murder of Flores.

Peruvian police told him that if he signed the papers they gave him, he would be transferred to the Netherlands, he told De Telegraaf in a jail interview.

"In my blind panic I signed everything, but never knew what was written on them," he said.

Van der Sloot was twice arrested over the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005, but never charged.

His mother said Saturday he was mentally unwell, De Telegraaf reported in what it called an exclusive interview with her.

Van der Sloot went to Peru to escape having to enter the high security section of a psychiatric hospital, Anita van der Sloot said.

She said he suffered severe psychological distress at the early death of his father, for which he blamed himself, she said, without giving further details.

She did not deny that he killed Flores.

She said she spoke to him shortly before Flores died and soon after and that he sounded paranoid, saying he was being "followed and watched," De Telegraaf reported.

Van der Sloot's attorney, Altez, has maintained that the judge in the case should strike down van der Sloot's confession because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

But Peruvian police have defended the interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession was acquired legally.

According to transcripts of his confession, van der Sloot said he elbowed Flores in the face before strangling her and then suffocating her with his shirt.

The transcripts -- provided to CNN by a police source -- provide shocking details and give the public its first glimpse of why van der Sloot says the alleged murder took place. The source has not been named because he was not authorized to pass along the material.

"There was blood everywhere," van der Sloot said in the transcripts. "What am I going to do now. I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so, I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Peruvian authorities have charged van der Sloot with murder.

Van der Sloot told authorities he attacked Flores on May 30 after she read an e-mail on his computer connected with the Holloway case.

In the transcript, van der Sloot said that after Flores read the e-mail, she punched him in the face.

"At that moment impulsively, with my right elbow I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose," van der Sloot said. "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."

Van der Sloot said he had a quick thought to try and hide the body but instead fled.

He was arrested in Chile on June 3 and was returned the next day to Peru. Along with killing Flores, who had a broken neck, he took money and bank cards from her wallet, police said.

Van der Sloot told police in Chile a different story of how Flores died when he was arrested there, according to transcripts. He blamed the death on robbers who had waited for him at his hotel in Peru.

"There was a man coming from the access door with a knife in his hand," van der Sloot said. "The man with the knife hit her in the face, making her bleed through the nose."

But Peru authorities said they had overwhelming evidence pointing to van der Sloot, and when he was transferred to Peru, van der Sloot confessed to the crime, police said.

Van der Sloot said he was in Peru for a poker tournament and had met Flores while he was gambling.

Police have said they think van der Sloot killed Flores to steal money she won from gambling.

Van der Sloot offered a different motive.

"After I responded with hitting her, I feared that she would go to the police and they would detain me for what was an impulsive act," van der Sloot said. "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn't thinking."

Van der Sloot is being held in a high-security area of the Miguel Castro Castro prison where only two of 10 cells are occupied, and he has no contact with inmates in the general prison population.

He is under guard 24 hours a day, authorities have said.

The only other inmate in the area is alleged Colombian hit man Hugo Trujillo Ospina. The two have spent some time together in a common area where there is a television set and weights made of broomsticks and soda bottles, authorities said.

There is the possibility that van der Sloot will be integrated with other segments of the prison population.

CNN's Francesca Church, Mayra Cuevas and Jean Casarez contributed to this report


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 05:56:14 AM
I have translated the interview a reporter had with Joran, as printed in today's De Telegraaf.


"IF ONLY I HAD LISTENED TO MY MOTHER"

by our special reporters John van den Heuvel and Bert Huisjes

LIMA (Peru), Tuesday

Patience is usually rewarded. After two and a half hours of waiting in an endless row of Peruvian family members of prisoners, finally the solid steel door of the infamous Castro Castro prison in Lima swings open. Followed by passport control, body scans and two body searches. After passing two gates follows a courtyard adjacent to a cell block.
Under prying eyes and shouts in the distance another gate opens. Then there is the sudden confrontation with the most hated man of the moment: Joran van der Sloot. He gives a firm handshake and we sit at a plastic table. The guard steps aside discreetly.
What's it like in here? Is the tentative opening question. Dressed in a red polo and khaki pants ("got it from the embassy") Van der Sloot is being cautious. "It's ok. I'm managing. Since a few days I have a mattress so I sleep a bit better. At night, rats crawl from the toilet hole into my cell. To counter that I put a thick layer of wet newspapers on top of the hole. I can't bear the thought of a rat gnawing on my ear."
Yet he will not complain, he says. "The fact that I'm here, is my own fault. My lawyer told me that I have to stay here at least two years. That's how long it takes for the trial to begin. I try to make the best of it."
He is happy with the clothes and toiletries that his mother arranged for him. "It's autumn and occasionally it gets cold ... so a few sweaters were very welcome." When he hears that his mother is not planning to come and visit, he nods subdued. "I understand, I caused her and many others too much pain. If only I had only listened to her."

During the conversation the Colombian neighbor of Van der Sloot behind bars, looks interested. "He is suspected of six contract killings," says Van der Sloot. "Sometimes he jokes that he'll kill me too for $75,000. But we get along fine and sometimes we play cards together. When asked if he killed Stephany Flores, the answer is short. "I will say absolutely nothing about that. My lawyer doesn't allow me to." But is it correct that he has made a confession? "All the papers that the Peruvians are showing now, they made me sign with false promises. If I signed them, I would be extradited to the Netherlands. I was so panicked that I signed everything they put in front of me. In Chile they have lied to me and told me I had to go to Peru. In retrospect, I could have just gotten on a plane in Chile to the Netherlands."
Van der Sloot said that he hadn't been mistreated during interrogations. "But there was a big bowl of water next to the desk during one of the hearings. They said they would put my head in if I was not cooperating." The embassy visits him once a week and they pay him 30 euros a month for shopping in a little prison shop. The food is almost literally bread and water, says Van der Sloot. "In the morning, watery tea and a dry bun. In the afternoon we get rice and beans. I can buy something extra at a small restaurant, but you must also pay the guards to get it into your cell." Grinning, he says that his lawyer has received letters with marriage proposals of Peruvian women. "One wants to get pregnant by me," said Van der Sloot. But he realizes full well that many Peruvians want to drink his blood, even in prison. "That's why I would rather stay in this hallway," says van der Sloot. "The director said that it's better for my own safety."

Regret
He has not used the word regret in relation to the murder of Stephany. About the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, he is completely done talking, says Van der Sloot. However, looking back now he has "great regret" that he went to Peru from Aruba. In the police file it seems that one of his fellow poker players, Elton Garcia, has all the papers of an American federal agent with him. On one of the casino images he can be seen as a handsome man with dark sunglasses. Garcia was the one who on Tuesday night caused the body of Stephany (21) to be found. Van der Sloot was already on the run. He had the manager of the Atlantic City casino call the hotel to ask if Van der Sloot was in his room.
According to him, because he had a diner appointment with Van der Sloot, who besides he "barely knew". When nobody answered the hotel room door and a 'smell' was observed, the porter came in with the manager. They found Stephany.
In fact, Garcia has a more important role. He arrived eight days before Van der Sloot in the Peruvian capital Lima and took up residence there in Hotel Tac, a low budget hotel, which also can be booked per hour.
He had met Van der Sloot as "a poker player" and asked him to come to Lima for a poker tournament. There would be a lot of money to be won. He also ensured that Van der Sloot moved into the Hotel Tac, where Garcia was staying already.

Worries
Van der Sloot says about that: "That Garcia had arranged and paid everything for me. In retrospect I just want to hit myself in the head that I let him lure me. I barely knew the guy. It was just a setup. "
In the file, Garcia is also questioned by the police. He declares that he is one of the hundred best professional poker players in the world. He says he knew Van der Sloot from the internet and had met him at the casino, where he and Stephany played poker. When he heard that Stephany was missing, he was said to be worried about the both of them. He told the police he feared that both probably were "abducted", which is why he had someone call Van der Sloots room. Did the FBI have an interest to continue the operation after the sting operation in Aruba? Without a doubt. In Aruba the private detective of the Holloways paid $ 25,000 to Van der Sloot, while filmed by the FBI. Ten thousand in cash, 15,000 was wired. But Van der Sloot would have to be away from Aruba, in order to arrest him. For extortion, he could not be extradited at that moment because Aruba only extradites for drug offenses.

When Van der Sloot was preparing to have himself admitted in the Netherlands, as his mother says, the fear was that he would be out of the picture completely. Peru was a better destination. This would explain the invitation of Garcia.
Did Van der Sloot commit his crime under the eyes of the FBI? What could an FBI agent do when he discovers a dead Stephany? He would have to find a way to tell the police.
And was the hotel prepared by the FBI? Very remarkable are the images of the door of his hotel room. It is striking that one and possibly even two cameras were pointed right at his door, in one of the images the doorknob is on the other side.
For Van der Sloots attorney Maximo Altez it is crystal clear. The FBI lured him to Peru to have him arrested and extradited.
But Altez doesn't want to anticipate his tactics. However he denies that he has resigned from the defense. "My family had to go underground and the windows of my office were smashed, but I will keep fighting," said Altez, himself an ex-policeman, later after the interview with Van der Sloot in a hotel in Lima. "The police and law enforcement made huge mistakes and that's what I will now have a few procedures about. After that is over, that's when the trial will start. That is, if that will still go ahead because I think that I can get Joran out of prison.
These are all straws that Van der Sloot are grasping. He shudders at the thought of a long stay in Castro Castro, he says. "I don't want to think too much about it," he said when we said goodbye. A cleaner, the assassin and Van der Sloot watch as the gates open again for the visiters to leave and then slam shut. The endless waiting will begin again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 22, 2010, 06:10:05 AM
Thank you Jo-An.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 22, 2010, 06:22:35 AM
From the above article:
Quote
During the conversation the Colombian neighbor of Van der Sloot behind bars, looks interested. "He is suspected of six contract killings," says Van der Sloot. "Sometimes he jokes that he'll kill me too for $75,000. But we get along fine and sometimes we play cards together.

You aren't worth $75,000 Joran.  I'm sure he would kill you for $75.00.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tylergal on June 22, 2010, 06:27:28 AM
Selena, Wasn't there an Albanian killed in an elevator in one of the hotels in Aruba once?  Or was that a Bulgarian?  Some mob connection or other.

Can't remember now. . .
I remember something like that, too. I'm just waiting to see what develops. Maybe nothing. Joran acted alone and on his own volition, no one set him up. But I could see something else happening that would make him whack out and it would be more than a gambling addiction and that would be a gambling debt that he can't pay. Maybe someone cqalled in his marker and it made him feel watched, suspicious, etc....but then it is Joran and he pissed off a few people in Aruba and Paul isn't there to pay people off or grant them favors, Anita is " done" with him.
Too many Aruban nightmares...maybe he is nothing.
Wasn't it the hotel where Johns or Jones were working security? It was under construction or remodeling> am I recalling this was early in the NH case ( within days?)

Yes, and they were out of work as a result of it being closed for construction and only working intermittently guarding the construction materials, if I recall correctly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: trimmonthelake on June 22, 2010, 06:30:54 AM
Thank you for the updates.Very interesting.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 06:32:29 AM
BTW the posts that carpe noctem and klaasend posted on pages 89 (#1778) and 90 (#1780) from the Telegraaf website, were copies of what is written on the front page of today's Telegraaf.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Sharon/Tx on June 22, 2010, 06:32:35 AM
Joran will be cold, damp, not seeing sunlight, and amongst rats......... karma!


LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Winter in Peru will be colder this year, compared to 2009, warns Senamhi, the national meterologic service.

The lowest temperature in Lima is expected to drop to 11°C (51.8°F), and the maximum will be only 19°C (66.2°F), which means that both figures will be 2°C lower than last year's records, according to the Senamhi expert Elizabeth Silvestre.

She said that the Limenian districts that will feel more cold are Cieneguilla, Chosica and La Molina, all of them located to the East, getting closer to the first Andean foothills.

Silvestre also wared that there might be some sunshine between noon and 2pm, but that mist will be a constant presence during the mornings.

Humidity will reach 80% as average and drizzles will have normal levels.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 22, 2010, 06:39:02 AM
Joran will be cold, damp, not seeing sunlight, and amongst rats......... karma!


LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Winter in Peru will be colder this year, compared to 2009, warns Senamhi, the national meterologic service.

The lowest temperature in Lima is expected to drop to 11°C (51.8°F), and the maximum will be only 19°C (66.2°F), which means that both figures will be 2°C lower than last year's records, according to the Senamhi expert Elizabeth Silvestre.

She said that the Limenian districts that will feel more cold are Cieneguilla, Chosica and La Molina, all of them located to the East, getting closer to the first Andean foothills.

Silvestre also wared that there might be some sunshine between noon and 2pm, but that mist will be a constant presence during the mornings.

Humidity will reach 80% as average and drizzles will have normal levels.


Yep, Joran will now have a killer and a rat to keep him warm.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 06:41:45 AM
Even if the FBI continued their operation in Peru, Joran still killed Stephany ("The fact that I'm here, is my own fault")
and that's what the Peruvian judges should focus on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 06:42:58 AM
Joran will be cold, damp, not seeing sunlight, and amongst rats......... karma!


LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Winter in Peru will be colder this year, compared to 2009, warns Senamhi, the national meterologic service.

The lowest temperature in Lima is expected to drop to 11°C (51.8°F), and the maximum will be only 19°C (66.2°F), which means that both figures will be 2°C lower than last year's records, according to the Senamhi expert Elizabeth Silvestre.

She said that the Limenian districts that will feel more cold are Cieneguilla, Chosica and La Molina, all of them located to the East, getting closer to the first Andean foothills.

Silvestre also wared that there might be some sunshine between noon and 2pm, but that mist will be a constant presence during the mornings.

Humidity will reach 80% as average and drizzles will have normal levels.


Yep, Joran will now have a killer and a rat to keep him warm.

Ah yeah, I can picture that, the three of them spooning on that filthy mattress!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 22, 2010, 06:43:55 AM
Even if the FBI continued their operation in Peru, Joran still killed Stephany ("The fact that I'm here, is my own fault")
and that's what the Peruvian judges should focus on.

Exactly Jo-An.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: San on June 22, 2010, 06:44:51 AM
Everyone have a good day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: DPJ on June 22, 2010, 06:47:38 AM
Good translation Jo-An, well done.

I only noticed that you left out part of the header:

Liep Nederlander in val van FBI?

Was Dutchman set up by the FBI?


Seemingly unimportant but it seems the Telegraaf and Joran for that matter are going with the theory of a sting operation.
How on earth will they piece in the dead girl in that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 06:50:28 AM
Anna – “don’t give a flying fig …” I say that all the time!

*
Anna – It was a Bulgarian killed in an elevator in Aruba; it’s in our M&C thread summary (of course) --
 
03/09/2001 – Bulgarian Poli Pantev shot in an elevator at Sonesta Hotel; shooting captured on security camera. Appeared to be drug-related. http://tinyurl.com/khue2 (http://tinyurl.com/khue2)
Posted 8/24/2006 at M&C by msmarple. Updates 8/25 by msmarple. Also by Appeals 9/14 and SunFreak2 9/14

*
Tyler – Paulus turning over in the frying pan! LOL

Tyler – Don’t know why you’ve been thinking baseball bat, but in some pictures we saw of Joran’s room, there was a baseball bat, standing in the corner I think, and we speculated about it. I think it was aluminum but not sure. Plus, as texasmom and I know, bate de baseball is often the weapon of choice on Aruba; I think they carry them in their cars just in case.

(I mean, I don’t think I ever saw a lead pipe mentioned as a weapon in Aruba – don’t know about texasmom. I say that because I’ve actually known people who kept a pipe under the driver’s seat. Not to mention that it’s one of the weapons in “Clue” … but I digress.)

*
Carpe – “Joran … screwed up a wet dream or two.” LOL (and I don’t acknowledge you enough. Thank you for all you bring to the table.)

*
Nonesuch – I appreciate the article you brought over from The Daily Beast. It quotes Anita as saying that Paulus didn’t want to have Joran committed after Natalee because if people found out they would think he did it … which is something I’ve had rolling around in the back of my mind for years, and posted here a few times lately. “Catch 22”

The consequences of murdering someone, disposing of a body, and covering it up are unforeseeable and far-reaching. Ye reap what ye sow.

* * *
Elton Garcia, the taxi drivers, the FBI – Joran and his supporters know how to play the blame game. Keeping his fan base roiled up keeps the money rolling in.

It seems Joran has diversified, expanded, his business by adding another victim.

* * *
Remember that this stuff we’re reading is coming from Joran, Anita, and his lawyers, and via some murky translations. It’s all self-serving defense mechanisms.

They want to put this murder squarely at the feet of Beth and the FBI.

Why Joran went to Peru, how he met Elton, how he got Stephany to his hotel, what happened in Room 309, why he fled – No amount of hype about “poor persecuted Joran” changes these facts:

* Natalee disappeared
* He made multiple “confessions” about what happened to Natalee
* He extorted/defrauded Beth - $ in exchange for a false location of Natalee’s body
* He departed Aruba, probably on advice of an ALE leak re. possible arrest warrant
* He murdered and robbed Stephany in Peru, fled Peru, changed appearance, was caught
* He awaits extradition and arrest for extortion/fraud, certainly one of the cruelest incidence of extortion/fraud ever

Aruba saw to it that there was no evidence in the Holloway case.
Peru has ample evidence including video in the Flores case.
The U.S. has ample evidence including video in the extortion/fraud case.

* * *
I don’t know what to make of the Elton Garcia thing. If he's FBI tracking Joran in Peru, so what?

* * *
Did someone (Anita?) say that Joran was “invited” to this tournament? Or at the very least, that he was going to Peru to play in the tournament?

The tournament keeps being mentioned, but Joran arrived two weeks before it started. And we’ve heard that he wasn’t registered for the tournament.

Doesn't registration require a cash entrance fee? Maybe he didn’t have the cash to register.

(I don’t think the tournament is all that important, but it keeps being mentioned so maybe I’m missing something.)

* * *
If his expenses were being paid by someone (Garcia, they’re saying) – why was the hotel bill overdue by two days? Why was he sending emails asking for money? Why wasn’t he registered for the tournament? Why was he broke? Why did he rob Stephany?

* * *
And OMG, please don’t tell me that the hotel actually has cameras IN the ROOMS? (I infer that the camera IN Room 309 is “suspiciously missing.)”

DI I read this wrong? Bad translation?

They're trying to make it sound "suspicious" that the hotel employees are under something like a gag order and ergo can't talk about the cameras. Seems entirely appropriate and SOP to me.

* * *
It’s up to his lawyers to point to other potential suspects, trash the victim, complain about suspect rights and treatment, garner sympathy for him – all classic strategy, Defense Law 101.

Shakespeare nailed that one, too – “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers” (Henry VI Part II) And he meant it exactly the way we mean it today – a joke that his audience (then and now) relates to.

* * *
And good morning, everyone.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 06:58:35 AM
Good translation Jo-An, well done.

I only noticed that you left out part of the header:

Liep Nederlander in val van FBI?

Was Dutchman set up by the FBI?


Seemingly unimportant but it seems the Telegraaf and Joran for that matter are going with the theory of a sting operation.
How on earth will they piece in the dead girl in that?

I think the FBI operation and Stephany's murder are two seperate things and I don't think De Telegraaf was speculation that the two had anything to do with each other. Joran only talks about Elton Garcia as being part of the set up, not about it being about Stephany.
When Stephany was found, the whole sting operation went down the drain.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: trimmonthelake on June 22, 2010, 06:59:04 AM
http://www2.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/report_van_der_sloot_boasts_of_marriage_offers/161673/
Report: Van der Sloot boasts of marriage offers
Associated Press
Published: June 22, 2010
AMSTERDAM (AP) - A Dutch newspaper reports that murder suspect Joran van der Sloot has boasted of receiving marriage proposals in his Peruvian jail cell.
   
De Telegraaf quotes Van der Sloot as saying one woman even asked him to get her pregnant. He is suspected of killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores in his hotel room on May 30 and is also the main
suspect in the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba.
   
The paper says Van der Sloot would not answer questions about Flores, on orders from his lawyer. He expressed no remorse at her death, the paper said in the interview published Tuesday.
   
The 22-year-old Dutchman told police in Peru he killed Flores, but he told the paper the confession was coerced. He refused to speak to the judge handling his case Monday.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 07:01:35 AM
DPJ, are you going to watch Anita's interview too tonight??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 07:02:09 AM
Jo-An - YOUR translations are always wonderful and clear. When I said "murky translations" I mean the online-translated versions. And thank you for doing them for us.

* * *
Reminds me - as klaas mentioned, I check el comecerio every day and sometimes post there. I was made very welcome, but picked up that some didn't appreciate English language posts. So I started doing Google translations to Spanish.

klaas posted a link to an article I had commented on. The entire article was Google translated from Spanish to English. My Google-translated-English-to-Spanish, back-to-English comments came out really strange; I barely recognized them ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: DPJ on June 22, 2010, 07:12:24 AM
DPJ, are you going to watch Anita's interview too tonight??
8.30pm isn't it? I'm going to try and see it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 07:13:07 AM
Jo-An - YOUR translations are always wonderful and clear. When I said "murky translations" I mean the online-translated versions. And thank you for doing them for us.

* * *
Reminds me - as klaas mentioned, I check el comecerio every day and sometimes post there. I was made very welcome, but picked up that some didn't appreciate English language posts. So I started doing Google translations to Spanish.

klaas posted a link to an article I had commented on. The entire article was Google translated from Spanish to English. My Google-translated-English-to-Spanish, back-to-English comments came out really strange; I barely recognized them ...

Hi msmarple and thank you!
I notice that too, about the online translations.
Worst thing is that sometimes those translations leave out the word "no" or "not" and that can put things in a whole new and wrong perspective!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 07:15:14 AM
DPJ, are you going to watch Anita's interview too tonight??
8.30pm isn't it? I'm going to try and see it.

Yes, 8.30pm. :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 07:19:11 AM
Snipped from my above (lengthy) post --

And OMG, please don’t tell me that the hotel actually has cameras IN the ROOMS? (I infer that the camera IN Room 309 is “suspiciously missing.)”

DI I read this wrong? Bad translation?

They're trying to make it sound "suspicious" that the hotel employees are under something like a gag order and ergo can't talk about the cameras. Seems entirely appropriate and SOP to me.

* * *
Now that I've read Jo-An's translation - are they saying that it's suspicious that there was a camera right outside his room?

SO WHAT.

Good thing it was there. A hulk of a man killed a woman with his bare hands. Just too, too bad for Joran that he was doing two bad things simultaneously - extorting money and killing somebody.

"Something bad" finally happened to Joran.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Maggie on June 22, 2010, 07:27:47 AM
Msmarple,
What a great job of condensing all the facts and rumors in a no-nonsense manner. Great job.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 07:29:29 AM
What they said about the camera(s) outside room 309 was that they went to the hotel themselves and they could tell that the camera(s) isn't/aren't normally there. And that now the cameras are no longer there.

How they could tell that there usually are no cameras there is maybe there was no discoloration on the wall where the camera was? Or maybe they didn't see any cameras on other floors as well? Just guessing...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Maggie on June 22, 2010, 07:29:50 AM
Jo-An,
Thank you for all of your timely translations. They are quick, concise and no googledegook.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 07:35:13 AM
What they said about the camera(s) outside room 309 was that they went to the hotel themselves and they could tell that the camera(s) isn't/aren't normally there. And that now the cameras are no longer there.

How they could tell that there usually are no cameras there is maybe there was no discoloration on the wall where the camera was? Or maybe they didn't see any cameras on other floors as well? Just guessing...

From the camera shots of the lobby, I got the impression that there are multiple monitors. My *impression* was probably a camera at every stair well on each floor, with a corresponding monitor in the lobby. (The hotel does claim 24/7 surveillance as an amenity ... )

And it looked like Joran's room was right at the stairs, when he was doing his coffee cup routine.

Are my lying eyes at it again?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 07:42:19 AM
IBE - I meant to respond to this earlier.

Mr. Flores is a retired race car driver and champion at that sport ... and also a "minor party candidate" in several national elections. It is the racing championship that made him well-known (and a source of pride) in Peru.

There is a Lourdes Flores who also has been a candidate, but I believe we concluded (here) that she is not Stephany's mother. We have seen pictures of both; they don't look at all alike.

These are common names in Latin America.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 07:48:30 AM
What they said about the camera(s) outside room 309 was that they went to the hotel themselves and they could tell that the camera(s) isn't/aren't normally there. And that now the cameras are no longer there.

How they could tell that there usually are no cameras there is maybe there was no discoloration on the wall where the camera was? Or maybe they didn't see any cameras on other floors as well? Just guessing...

From the camera shots of the lobby, I got the impression that there are multiple monitors. My *impression* was probably a camera at every stair well on each floor, with a corresponding monitor in the lobby. (The hotel does claim 24/7 surveillance as an amenity ... )

And it looked like Joran's room was right at the stairs, when he was doing his coffee cup routine.

Are my lying eyes at it again?

What I can remember from the pictures that Greta van Susteren (I think?) had, is that the hallway was a T-shape and that Joran's room was right on top of the T-junction. And the camera films the upper right side of the T and you could also go left, there were rooms there too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 07:49:19 AM
Jo-An,
Thank you for all of your timely translations. They are quick, concise and no googledegook.

Thank you, Maggie!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 07:55:03 AM
Maybe someone can post the lobby pictures again (as Joran arrives, leaves) that show the desk area. I had the impression that there were several screens/monitors there.

Again, the hotel DOES claim 24/7 surveillance.

But if a camera was put there *just for Joran* I don't give a flying fig. Boo hoo. He's not sorry he did it, just that he got caught.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 08:13:02 AM
Maybe someone can post the lobby pictures again (as Joran arrives, leaves) that show the desk area. I had the impression that there were several screens/monitors there.

Again, the hotel DOES claim 24/7 surveillance.

But if a camera was put there *just for Joran* I don't give a flying fig. Boo hoo. He's not sorry he did it, just that he got caught.

If you watch this video you can see the lobby camera saying: C11 and then the date and time.
If you freeze the video at '54/'55 you can see multiple monitors for just a second and none of them is showing images of upstairs hallways.
But you can see one of the other monitors saying: C15 and then date and time.
Then, if you watch the hallway camera, the monitor doesn't say C.. anymore and the numbers are no longer in white but in yellow, stating the time on top of the date. So at least it seems like a different type of camera. Plus the times do not match of the upstairs and down stairs cameras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALT-qm6qufg


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 22, 2010, 08:26:11 AM
From the above article:
Quote
During the conversation the Colombian neighbor of Van der Sloot behind bars, looks interested. "He is suspected of six contract killings," says Van der Sloot. "Sometimes he jokes that he'll kill me too for $75,000. But we get along fine and sometimes we play cards together.

You aren't worth $75,000 Joran.  I'm sure he would kill you for $75.00.

LOL, I was thinking the same thing San!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 22, 2010, 08:28:46 AM
Jo-An,
Thank you for all of your timely translations. They are quick, concise and no googledegook.

DITTO!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 08:33:14 AM
Maybe someone can post the lobby pictures again (as Joran arrives, leaves) that show the desk area. I had the impression that there were several screens/monitors there.

Again, the hotel DOES claim 24/7 surveillance.

But if a camera was put there *just for Joran* I don't give a flying fig. Boo hoo. He's not sorry he did it, just that he got caught.

If you watch this video you can see the lobby camera saying: C11 and then the date and time.
If you freeze the video at '54/'55 you can see multiple monitors for just a second and none of them is showing images of upstairs hallways.
But you can see one of the other monitors saying: C15 and then date and time.
Then, if you watch the hallway camera, the monitor doesn't say C.. anymore and the numbers are no longer in white but in yellow, stating the time on top of the date. So at least it seems like a different type of camera. Plus the times do not match of the upstairs and down stairs cameras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALT-qm6qufg

This is what I mean, the cameras look like different types of cameras:

Lobby
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2877/foto1bc.png) (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/foto1bc.png/)

Camera at room 309
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1782/foto2yj.png) (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/foto2yj.png/)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2010, 08:54:15 AM
As I recall, Anita was trying to explain it away as simple sibling rivalry; a fight among brothers;
nothing unusual.

It may have been when Greta and Beth were at the VanderSloots that Anita told that.

That is why I have always thought that he kicked and stomped Stephany.

I agree Magnolia, and I don't believe Natalee died with a single accidental injury either.  JMO

I think Natalee died with some kind of violent blow to the head administered by Joran.
I don't know if he hit her with a bat or bashed her head on a rock or stomped her. They
were all trying to explain a head injury from the beginning. 

Then there is the seizure issue that kept popping up.  The seizure was caused by a head injury. 
All just my opinion.

In the back of my brain somewhere, I want to think a baseball bat.  There is a reason for it, but I cannot recall why.  Does anyone else recall reason I am inclined to think baseball bat.


viet vet wrote:

Speaking of off the record comments, we were told were to find Joran at the International School on a Friday , June 2 or 3, have it in my notes. Was also told Joran hit Natalee with an aluminum baseball bat…in the head. The same man told me both stories and guess what, Joran was at the International School that day, hiding. He was sleeping over there rather than home,,, scared he was. The fine Aruba Police followed us to the school that day or maybe we would already have solved this case. Yeah Karin, a bounch of cowboys…

Dec 6, 8:11 PM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2010, 08:57:54 AM
Joran will be cold, damp, not seeing sunlight, and amongst rats......... karma!


LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Winter in Peru will be colder this year, compared to 2009, warns Senamhi, the national meterologic service.

The lowest temperature in Lima is expected to drop to 11°C (51.8°F), and the maximum will be only 19°C (66.2°F), which means that both figures will be 2°C lower than last year's records, according to the Senamhi expert Elizabeth Silvestre.

She said that the Limenian districts that will feel more cold are Cieneguilla, Chosica and La Molina, all of them located to the East, getting closer to the first Andean foothills.

Silvestre also wared that there might be some sunshine between noon and 2pm, but that mist will be a constant presence during the mornings.

Humidity will reach 80% as average and drizzles will have normal levels.


Yep, Joran will now have a killer and a rat to keep him warm.

He might get lucky and one will go up his ass ,he will enjoy this I'm sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 22, 2010, 08:59:10 AM
Can you say 'BEN" ? :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 09:02:42 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 22, 2010, 09:04:21 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/modlock5.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Nut44x4 on June 22, 2010, 09:05:30 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2010, 09:06:11 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/criam%20scean/slootcrimescene_04_062110.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 09:08:27 AM
Even if the FBI continued their operation in Peru, Joran still killed Stephany ("The fact that I'm here, is my own fault")
and that's what the Peruvian judges should focus on.

Jo-An, my bet is that is a bunch of bull from Joran.  We only have his word on Elvis and we know he barely opens his mouth without lying.

Yes, Joran killed Stephany and he killed Natalee. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 09:08:35 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/criam%20scean/slootcrimescene_04_062110.jpg)

Thanks Blonde
Probably is beer, of course I was thinking drugs.
In Session is talking about JVS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 09:09:18 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Joran/Joran%20Peru/criam%20scean/slootcrimescene_04_062110.jpg)

Maybe soda


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 09:17:50 AM
Van Der Sloot Is Mentally Ill, Says Mother!

The mother of Joran van der Sloot claims her son is mad as a hatter according to his mother's friend and apparent spokesperson, Pasel de la Schlep.

"Joran was always talking in a silly little wheezy voice and eating flies while he was growing up", the friend of the family quoted Mrs van der Sloot,

According to the friend, Joran's mother, Anita van der Sloot had told her that she wanted to get the full story out.

Pasel then stated that Anita's son had become worse after watching "Sling Blade", that it had stopped the fly eating but began a ten year period of eating potted meat and biscuits with mustard.

Apparently little Joran changed his voice to that of Karl in the movie until his friends laughed him out of doing that. Still he often spent hours looking in the potted meat for peckers."

Anita van der Sloot also stated that Joran had always felt insecure about his name containing two small letters and believe that made him impotent on many occasions.

"The kids at school called him 'Little vd'. Kids can be so cruel," stated de la Schlep.

So why is his mother having someone speak up for her and her son after all this time?

"She wants the people in Lima, Peru to know that he's not responsible. That he needs to be sent to a mental institution. Maybe get him off the potted meat and biscuits with mustard."

Make Bureau's day - rate this story with the stars, they're just down there!

The story above is a satire or parody. It is entirely fictitious.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 09:20:46 AM
OOPS....forgot the link
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i77269#this


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 09:23:20 AM
IBE - 99.9% certain that Lourdes Flores and Stephanys mom are 2 different people.  You would think that if Lourdes Flores daughter was murdered it would be mentioned in the Peru papers and it's not. (not in respect to Lourdes)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 09:24:12 AM
Van der Sloot 'emotionally immature,' psych report says
Joran van der Sloot has a low tolerance for frustration and "doesn't value the female role," according to excerpts from a psychological investigation report given to a judge by prosecutors Monday.

According to the document, van der Sloot, suspected of killing a Peruvian woman late last month, "does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him. It generates in him a challenging attitude."

The report calls him "emotionally immature," which elicits strong changes in behavior that can send him out of control.

"He reflects a certain dominance over the opposite sex. He doesn't value the female role," the document states.

Its adds, "he presents traits of an anti-social personality" and is "indifferent towards others' well being."

Despite this, the report says, "he doesn't show any psychopathological trauma that impedes him from perceiving and evaluating reality."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/21/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Bearlyhere on June 22, 2010, 09:26:12 AM
Well, that took a while to catch up!

Night to all monkeys! This naughty one has an early morning ahead......... in 3 hours!!!

What a jerk, Joran is! In the wise words of Robots........... He's going DOWN!!!

That Robots sure is a wiseguy!  ;-p


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 22, 2010, 09:41:22 AM
John Ludwick Now Joran can truly see who his real friends are. And you can count them on one finger. Stay strong my bro, i will never turn my back on you...
7 hours ago

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000463930273

______________

Note to moron John Ludwick: your 15 minutes of fame have expired


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 09:45:22 AM
I got the paper version of De Telegraaf right here and what they say about Elton Garcia is this:

-when the police questioned him, he had on him all the papers (I think what they mean by papers is identification etc.) of an FBI-agent, suggesting that he in fact is an FBI-agent
-they suggest that they wanted to continue the sting operation that started in Aruba, in Peru, so Joran could be extradited to the US at some point
-Elton Garcia invited Joran to Peru, paying for everything
-Elton and Joran didn't know each other very well, but Elton was the one who called the hotel on Tuesday asking for Joran
-Joran now feels/knows he was being set up by this Garcia guy - in order to continue the sting operation in Peru

So, Stephany was probably the factor that they didn't take into account... poor girl...


Got to get to work now, will try to translate the whole interview later.
But I scanned the last few pages here and I think most of it is already posted here.



I believe it has already been reported that Joran paid a week in advance himself when he checked into the hotel.

I think most of that about Garcia is from Joran. 

But it was also well established that Aruba was fully cooperating with the FBI and prepared to extradite Joran and for extortion.  Otherwise, wouldn't have been much of a sting.

That said, it chenges nothing and only enforced what a cold blooded killer Joran is in that he couldn't even be videoed one weekend without his killing somebody.

What are the odds that the only time he is on video is the only time he killed?  Pretty bad, I'd say.  If you can't record Joran for a weekend without a murder, he is in fact a serial killer.

But any FBI sting has no bearing on Joran and his multiple murders, whether that sting is in Aruba or Peru.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 09:46:28 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?

I don't know what the brown bottle is ...

But these seem to be actual crime scene photos, 21 of them, but I can't seem to advance through the different photos. Don't know if it's a problem with the site or with where I am ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 09:51:17 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?

I don't know what the brown bottle is ...

But these seem to be actual crime scene photos, 21 of them, but I can't seem to advance through the different photos. Don't know if it's a problem with the site or with where I am ...

I was able to go through them and YES, they are actual photos even showing Stephanys body and bruises. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 09:53:41 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?

I don't know what the brown bottle is ...

But these seem to be actual crime scene photos, 21 of them, but I can't seem to advance through the different photos. Don't know if it's a problem with the site or with where I am ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008352-504083.html?tag=cbsnewsCrimesiderArea.1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 10:01:43 AM
Jo-An - thank you for posting the pictures. We've discussed the times before; it isn't unusual for camera times to be out of sync, anywhere.

Here's a list of Hotel Tac "amenities" (snipped from web site) --

Telephone: 001 4478877
Fax: 001 4478877
Getting There: Av.Republica of PaNAMAN.6160 Miraflores In the crossing of BenavideZ.
Rooms: 80
Floors: 7
Meeting Space: 1 room. 140 sq. ft. total.

Check In Time: 7:00 am
Check Out Time: 12:00 pm

Rate Range (USD): From $30 to $50 per night *

Nearest Airport: Jorge Chavez International (LIM)

In Rooms: Cable TV. Safe. 

Services: 24-Hour Security.
Airport Transportation. Car Rental. City Transportation. Concierge. 24-Hour Room Service. Valet Parking. Wake Up Service. 

Special Amenities: Bar/Lounge. Complimentary Breakfast. Parking Garage. 
Other Info: Exterior Room Entrance. Interior Room Entrance. Multi-lingual Staff. Non-Smoking Rooms. Smoking Rooms. Alternative Lifestyle Friendly. Self Parking.

* * *
I bolded a few items that might be interesting/useful. (We have seen this previously.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 22, 2010, 10:04:20 AM
Marriage proposals for Joran van der Sloot

(Novum) - Joran van der Sloot has since he is in prison for several marriage proposals of Peruvian women had.  To sue his a letter to his attorney, he Tuesday in an interview in The Telegraph.

 He has much to offer them time being. He suggested would with a watery tea and dry bread. In the afternoon he gets rice and beans. In addition, extra food they buy.

Van der Sloot, the newspaper realizes that many Peruvians have his blood to drink. In prison, he remains therefore preferred in the current cell where he sits in prison because he was not very popular.

His neighbor, an assassin, would occasionally "jokes" that make him best for $ 75,000 to murder.  "But I can do to find him."

Earlier, De Telegraaf already known that Van der Sloot claims he only signed a confession statement, because he was promised that he would be entitled to the Netherlands. Now he says that they were threatened during interrogations, his head in a bucket of water to stop if he was not cooperating. He would not be abused.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rssonline.nl%2Frel_5389724_joran-bekende-alleen-om-uitlevering.aspx&sl=nl&tl=en

---
Crazy stuff coming out of the netherlands
Report: Joran Van der Sloot boasts of marriage offers
AMSTERDAM — Murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is talking plenty — just not to the judge investigating his case.

The 22-year-old Dutchman is quoted in an interview published Tuesday as boasting that he has received several marriage offers from women while in his jail cell in Lima, Peru, where he is awaiting trial for allegedly killing 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores.

"One of them even wants me to get her pregnant," De Telegraaf newspaper quoted Van der Sloot as saying.


http://www.bostonherald.com/news/international/americas/view/20100622report_joran_van_der_sloot_boasts_of_marriage_offers/srvc=home&position=recent (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/international/americas/view/20100622report_joran_van_der_sloot_boasts_of_marriage_offers/srvc=home&position=recent)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 22, 2010, 10:15:12 AM
In the last thread or so, I asked if Lourdes Flores was related to Stephany's dad. It was said it was not his wife. In exploring for L. Flores on uTube I found a blurb about her and Peruvian Airlines in it. It was also showing pictures of a race car driver before and after her data. The driver looked like Stephany's dad.

There is a reason, of which I am sorry to say I cannot tell now that I need to know if they are relatives. Lourdes Flores ran for President. I am not sure if she won or not. Stephany's dad ran for vice pres and President.

Would one of our Monkey family summarize what is going on from the beginning of this clip to about the 8:00 mark especially any data, relationships between the race car driver, Lourdes and Peruvian Airlines? I read somewhere that Lourdes is on their board, but wondered why they are referencing a race car drive in the blurb and who he is, and what race he was in. TIA

IBE    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related)
The first news reports of Stephany's murder said she was stabbed to death. In the one interview with her father, he puts his finger to his neck like a cutting motion, but says he cannot talk about it because of her mother. I am beginning to think Joran managed to cut Stephany's throat to disable her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 10:18:06 AM
klaas - I get a hung-up hourglass, then "Internet Explorer cannot display ..." message, when I click the link to the CBS site with crime scene photos.

(But something tells me you're working on this ... :smiley: )


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: EURobert on June 22, 2010, 10:20:52 AM
Bring in the conspiracy-believers

Evidence for a conspiracy is growing (Google transl: Joran take to prove conspiracy)

The evidence that the FBI has had a major role in the run up to Joran stay in Peru will increase. Notes that John Joran van den Heuvel, who was visiting in jail.

Already known that the FBI was engaged in an undercover operation involving Joran, Beth Holloway could extort. In order to arrest him had Van der Sloot in Aruba, however, from only extradite drug criminals. Two days before Joran would travel to the Netherlands for treatment in an institution, however, Joran traveled to Peru for a poker tournament, hosted by poker player Garcia, who says the one hundred best poker players in the sport.

This poker player was also the one who after the murder of Stephany hotel staff had come into the room, allegedly because he thought that Joran and Stephany were abducted. These Garcia appears to have all the papers of a U.S. federal agent.

Camera Images
Then there are the camera images of Joran's room in and out. The hotel, however no cameras in the corridors hung, noted van den Heuvel. But Joran room were two cameras focused. It has, according to John van den Heuvel is every reason to believe that Joran is lured into a trap. After his arrest he claimed that Joran days was being watched by men.

Joran tells that the confessions by false pretenses are elicited. It was done before he had a lawyer and was told that if he confessed and he signed would be extradited to the Netherlands. Furthermore it may take at least another two years for the cause of Joran to court. Joran is currently in a privecel away from the other prisoners. Even if Joran gets marriage proposals from several Peruvian girls. Some even want his baby.

http://tinyurl.com/28tunae


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 22, 2010, 10:21:22 AM
Van der Sloot 'emotionally immature,' psych report says
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 21, 2010 11:01 p.m. EDT


http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/21/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T1


Lima, Peru (CNN) -- Joran van der Sloot has a low tolerance for frustration and "doesn't value the female role," according to excerpts from a psychological investigation report given to a judge by prosecutors Monday.

According to the document, van der Sloot, suspected of killing a Peruvian woman late last month, "does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him. It generates in him a challenging attitude."

The report calls him "emotionally immature," which elicits strong changes in behavior that can send him out of control.

"He reflects a certain dominance over the opposite sex. He doesn't value the female role," the document states.

Its adds, "he presents traits of an anti-social personality" and is "indifferent towards others' well being."

Despite this, the report says, "he doesn't show any psychopathological trauma that impedes him from perceiving and evaluating reality."

Also Monday, Van der Sloot told the judge that his rights and due process were violated after his arrest in connection with the killing of Stefany Flores Ramirez, his attorney told CNN.

The judge will decide on the legality of van der Sloot's incarceration by Wednesday, lawyer Maximo Altez said. If the ruling is unfavorable to van der Sloot, Altez said he is prepared to appeal to the highest court.

While in front of the judge, however, van der Sloot declined to give a formal statement on the facts of the case, according to the court. The reason he gave was the ongoing motion for habeas corpus, which he hopes will nullify the statements he gave to police that led to his imprisonment.

Van der Sloot's decision will not hold up the legal proceedings against him, the court said.

Meanwhile, in a Dutch newspaper article published Monday, van der Sloot says he was "tricked" into confessing to the murder of Flores.

Peruvian police told him that if he signed the papers they gave him, he would be transferred to the Netherlands, he told De Telegraaf in a jail interview.

"In my blind panic I signed everything, but never knew what was written on them," he said.

Van der Sloot was twice arrested over the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005, but never charged.

His mother said Saturday he was mentally unwell, De Telegraaf reported in what it called an exclusive interview with her.

Van der Sloot went to Peru to escape having to enter the high security section of a psychiatric hospital, Anita van der Sloot said.

She said he suffered severe psychological distress at the early death of his father, for which he blamed himself, she said, without giving further details.

She did not deny that he killed Flores.

She said she spoke to him shortly before Flores died and soon after and that he sounded paranoid, saying he was being "followed and watched," De Telegraaf reported.

Van der Sloot's attorney, Altez, has maintained that the judge in the case should strike down van der Sloot's confession because he was not properly represented when he was interrogated.

But Peruvian police have defended the interrogation and said van der Sloot's confession was acquired legally.

According to transcripts of his confession, van der Sloot said he elbowed Flores in the face before strangling her and then suffocating her with his shirt.

The transcripts -- provided to CNN by a police source -- provide shocking details and give the public its first glimpse of why van der Sloot says the alleged murder took place. The source has not been named because he was not authorized to pass along the material.

"There was blood everywhere," van der Sloot said in the transcripts. "What am I going to do now. I had blood on my shirt. There was also blood on the bed, so, I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."

Peruvian authorities have charged van der Sloot with murder.

Van der Sloot told authorities he attacked Flores on May 30 after she read an e-mail on his computer connected with the Holloway case.

In the transcript, van der Sloot said that after Flores read the e-mail, she punched him in the face.

"At that moment impulsively, with my right elbow I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose," van der Sloot said. "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."

Van der Sloot said he had a quick thought to try and hide the body but instead fled.

He was arrested in Chile on June 3 and was returned the next day to Peru. Along with killing Flores, who had a broken neck, he took money and bank cards from her wallet, police said.

Van der Sloot told police in Chile a different story of how Flores died when he was arrested there, according to transcripts. He blamed the death on robbers who had waited for him at his hotel in Peru.

"There was a man coming from the access door with a knife in his hand," van der Sloot said. "The man with the knife hit her in the face, making her bleed through the nose."

But Peru authorities said they had overwhelming evidence pointing to van der Sloot, and when he was transferred to Peru, van der Sloot confessed to the crime, police said.

Van der Sloot said he was in Peru for a poker tournament and had met Flores while he was gambling.

Police have said they think van der Sloot killed Flores to steal money she won from gambling.

Van der Sloot offered a different motive.

"After I responded with hitting her, I feared that she would go to the police and they would detain me for what was an impulsive act," van der Sloot said. "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn't thinking."

Van der Sloot is being held in a high-security area of the Miguel Castro Castro prison where only two of 10 cells are occupied, and he has no contact with inmates in the general prison population.

He is under guard 24 hours a day, authorities have said.

The only other inmate in the area is alleged Colombian hit man Hugo Trujillo Ospina. The two have spent some time together in a common area where there is a television set and weights made of broomsticks and soda bottles, authorities said.

There is the possibility that van der Sloot will be integrated with other segments of the prison population.

CNN's Francesca Church, Mayra Cuevas and Jean Casarez contributed to this report
Van der Sloot said that he hadn't been mistreated during interrogations. "But there was a big bowl of water next to the desk during one of the hearings. They said they would put my head in if I was not cooperating."

Yeah, right Joran, nothing in the transcripts.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 10:23:11 AM
In the last thread or so, I asked if Lourdes Flores was related to Stephany's dad. It was said it was not his wife. In exploring for L. Flores on uTube I found a blurb about her and Peruvian Airlines in it. It was also showing pictures of a race car driver before and after her data. The driver looked like Stephany's dad.

There is a reason, of which I am sorry to say I cannot tell now that I need to know if they are relatives. Lourdes Flores ran for President. I am not sure if she won or not. Stephany's dad ran for vice pres and President.

Would one of our Monkey family summarize what is going on from the beginning of this clip to about the 8:00 mark especially any data, relationships between the race car driver, Lourdes and Peruvian Airlines? I read somewhere that Lourdes is on their board, but wondered why they are referencing a race car drive in the blurb and who he is, and what race he was in. TIA

IBE    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related)
The first news reports of Stephany's murder said she was stabbed to death. In the one interview with her father, he puts his finger to his neck like a cutting motion, but says he cannot talk about it because of her mother. I am beginning to think Joran managed to cut Stephany's throat to disable her.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003646-18.html?tag=page

Peruvian businessman Ricardo Flores, right, walks with an unidentified person during the wake of his daughter Ramirez in Lima, on June 2, 2010. Dutch citizen Joran Van der Sloot is being sought by Peruvian authorities for the murder of Flores' 21-year-old daughter Stephany in a Lima hotel.

the beginning of these pics
 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003646.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 10:23:24 AM
klaas - I get a hung-up hourglass, then "Internet Explorer cannot display ..." message, when I click the link to the CBS site with crime scene photos.

(But something tells me you're working on this ... :smiley: )

Well I can't do much for YOU and the CBS site but I can post the photos.  I think I'll post in another thread because they are pretty graphic.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: pinkbanana on June 22, 2010, 10:23:26 AM
Good Morning Monkeys

I have serious catching up to do.

Have a BLESSED day!!

pb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 22, 2010, 10:24:43 AM

A Right Perspective: Monsters hit a world away, close to home


    * By Marilyn Loeffel
    * Memphis Commercial Appeal
    * Posted June 22, 2010 at midnight


This is a tale of two monsters and two murders, in a metropolis and a modern-day Mayberry.

While these murders took place within a few days of each other, they were literally a world apart. One holds global interest; the other shocked our little corner of the world.

Joran van der Sloot was pampered and privileged. His parents coddled and protected him, reaching beyond enabling, perhaps as far as abetting him.

Already a prime suspect in the five-year-old missing person case of Natalee Holloway, he traveled to the city of Lima, Peru, to gamble. Holloway, an 18-year-old Alabama high school senior with Memphis ties, disappeared during a graduation trip to Aruba in May 2005.

After a late-night poker game last month, police report, van der Sloot returned to his Lima hotel room with a stranger. They had a little coffee, a little cocaine and a little alcohol.

By his own confession -- which he is now trying to recant -- when Stephany Flores discovered the identity of the man she went home with, van der Sloot hit her, choked her, smothered the life out of her, and then ate his breakfast.

Stephany was 21 years old. Then, police say, van der Sloot stole her money and her identity cards and lit out for Chile.

Meanwhile, this monster counted on money he had extorted from Natalee Holloway's family back in the United States to buy him a safe haven.

He offered to tell the family where her body is, apparently not to clear his conscience but to pad his wallet. I'd have paid him, too. We all seek closure to our worst nightmares.

Van der Sloot is being held in Castro Castro prison, reportedly a horrible facility. That is a fitting environment for a person used to living in a virtual garden of Eden. I've always felt bleeding hearts who whine about conditions in prisons get it wrong.

The incarceration itself should be a deterrent to crime. Hot meals, cable television and a fully stocked library with access to a computer and Internet add up to a better life than a lot of people have on the outside.

The maximum sentence for murder in Peru is a mere 35 years. If convicted, here's betting he'll never serve nearly that much time.

Maybe the Peruvian judicial system can drag its feet, taking its sweet time going to trial, like the Aruban authorities did when they investigated Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

The other murder took place 50 miles from Memphis. In all the years that TV's Andy and Barney patrolled Mayberry, they never investigated the unthinkable, a murder in Mayberry.

Lillian Wilson lived 80 years in her personal Mayberry. She retired from a nursing career to do volunteer work near Wynne, Ark., where she grew up.

She married there, reared two sons there and loved her small and simple world. She spent time serving the people and ministries of her lifelong church, Central United Methodist. She was not a member of an international jet set who goes home with strangers.

She was a grandmother who loved animals and served her Christ, which is what she was doing the day she was brutally murdered.

Mrs. Wilson was working on disaster relief for flood victims. She went by the church to gather supplies before a scheduled meeting to join her pastor at a partner church.

When she didn't show up, the pastor knew where to find her. Her lifeless body lay between the pews where she had worshipped all of her life.

There is poignant irony even in the alleged murder weapon, an altar cross. I've heard of people taking up their cross, bearing their cross, dying for the cause of the cross, being crucified on a cross. But this is a twisted fate, to be bludgeoned by the sacred symbol you once polished to prepare for the worship service.

Like Mrs. Wilson, I grew up going to small churches. What is called the worship center now, we called the sanctuary. That Sunday, however, church was no sanctuary for Lillian Wilson.

Police believe that like van der Sloot, the man charged with killing Mrs. Wilson took his victim's money and ran. Rene Patrick Bourassa reportedly used her credit cards and drove her stolen car to Washington state, where he was arrested and charged with capital murder.

At least Arkansas has the death penalty.

I doubt that van der Sloot or Bourassa -- both of whom must be considered innocent under the law until proven guilty -- spent much time in church. Moral monsters like the murderers who killed Stephany Flores and Lillian Wilson usually don't.

Mrs. Wilson did, though, and if anyone ever died doing what he or she loved the most, it was this virtuous woman. While the manner of her death is particularly heinous and ironic to us, I think that somehow Mrs. Wilson may not have felt the blows. I believe she was clinging to an unseen cross.

That's what we do when there are monsters among us.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jun/22/a-right-perspective-monsters-hit-a-world-away-to/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 22, 2010, 10:27:50 AM
Even if the FBI continued their operation in Peru, Joran still killed Stephany ("The fact that I'm here, is my own fault")
and that's what the Peruvian judges should focus on.
It looks to me like he thinks he is in prison because the FBI set him up, not for the murder of Stephany.
Pretty soon, the Peruvian authorities will put a stop to the way Joran's lawyer is trying to distract from the fact that the evidence is overwhelming in Stephany's murder. It doesn't matter one bit HOW he ended up in Peru. Stephany's blood was all over this sorry excuse for a human being.
Too bad Joran doesn't realize that his side tracking is only making things worse for him. It will only prolong his trial and consequent stay.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 10:30:40 AM
klaas - I get a hung-up hourglass, then "Internet Explorer cannot display ..." message, when I click the link to the CBS site with crime scene photos.

(But something tells me you're working on this ... :smiley: )

Well I can't do much for YOU and the CBS site but I can post the photos.  I think I'll post in another thread because they are pretty graphic.

Oh, I know that, but having the pictures somewhere here might be a good idea and thank you very much, that is what I was hoping. (And expected you were working on .... )



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 10:31:27 AM
klaas - I get a hung-up hourglass, then "Internet Explorer cannot display ..." message, when I click the link to the CBS site with crime scene photos.

(But something tells me you're working on this ... :smiley: )

Well I can't do much for YOU and the CBS site but I can post the photos.  I think I'll post in another thread because they are pretty graphic.

Oh, I know that, but having the pictures somewhere here might be a good idea and thank you very much, that is what I was hoping. (And expected you were working on .... )



Just posted them all in this thread:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 22, 2010, 10:37:43 AM
Even if the FBI continued their operation in Peru, Joran still killed Stephany ("The fact that I'm here, is my own fault")
and that's what the Peruvian judges should focus on.
It looks to me like he thinks he is in prison because the FBI set him up, not for the murder of Stephany.
Pretty soon, the Peruvian authorities will put a stop to the way Joran's lawyer is trying to distract from the fact that the evidence is overwhelming in Stephany's murder. It doesn't matter one bit HOW he ended up in Peru. Stephany's blood was all over this sorry excuse for a human being.
Too bad Joran doesn't realize that his side tracking is only making things worse for him. It will only prolong his trial and consequent stay.

I for one hope he continues to stall because it adds more days and nights of fear.....
I want him to be afraid when he lays down on his bed at night that it might be his last night....and that the sh!thole rats will gnaw at his face if he does fall asleep.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: BUCKSHOT on June 22, 2010, 10:41:53 AM
Putting aside emotion, and trying to make comments, in neutral perspective:

If you commit the crime, you must do the time. Plain and simple.

People can feel bad for poor Joran all they want. It does not change what has transpired.

In regards to NH, I am of the opinion that JVDS was not alone.
Likewise, those who denied justice on his behalf should also face the music and be punished.

With regards to JVDS needing psychological help, it is a shame he did not get it.
Too much talking and not enough action.

We are taught at an early age. Do something wrong, sit in time-out.
Joran is no exception. Hopefully, he will accept his role in both tragedies.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 22, 2010, 10:44:12 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?

I don't know what the brown bottle is ...

But these seem to be actual crime scene photos, 21 of them, but I can't seem to advance through the different photos. Don't know if it's a problem with the site or with where I am ...

I was able to go through them and YES, they are actual photos even showing Stephanys body and bruises. 
OMG!!! I started to cry when I saw her body wrapped up in that sheet. It is very obvious that Joran viciously beat this poor girl to death. The bruises on her body are horrific.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 10:47:54 AM
klaas - I get a hung-up hourglass, then "Internet Explorer cannot display ..." message, when I click the link to the CBS site with crime scene photos.

(But something tells me you're working on this ... :smiley: )

Well I can't do much for YOU and the CBS site but I can post the photos.  I think I'll post in another thread because they are pretty graphic.

Oh, I know that, but having the pictures somewhere here might be a good idea and thank you very much, that is what I was hoping. (And expected you were working on .... )



Just posted them all in this thread:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8087.new#new

Well ... certainly she still had her watch and ring.

So very, very sad.

The man leaves only destruction in his wake. I just hope he's stopped, for good.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 10:51:15 AM
I find it somewhat offensive and totally weird that anyone would claim the FBI to be in the wrong even IF (big if for I totally doubt it for practical reasons) they "lured" Joran to Peru.

He was guilty of extortion and caught completely on tape!  The FBI has every right to arrest and extradite the monster from anywhere on earth and had a duly authorized Interpol warrant.

Maybe it was Aruba who "set up" the FBI by pretending they would extradite him and instead tipping him off.

What goes around comes around and if the FBI was behind getting Joran in Peru, good on them.

Bad on Aruba for tipping him off and not keeping their part of the bargain.

And as far as Aruba only extraditing drug criminals--puh-leeze!  We know they extradited some of the Mansur family in the past.  And it wasn't for drugs.

It's just a shame that Joran is such a monster that on any given weekend he is evidently engaged in brutalizing and robbing women like that.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 10:54:39 AM
A bowl of water big enough to put Joran's big deformed head into would be more like a vat!

Who is he kidding with this?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 10:56:53 AM
Excellent post at RU, IMO:

prolific2  PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:53 am         

If Elton Garcia was an FBI agent and was used to lure Joran to Peru in order to extradite him to the US for the extortion charge, once he arrived they could or would have just nabbed him....no plausible or logical reason to put on such an elaborate ruse involving people that could have spilled the beans or wait that long and give him a chance to get away again.

And there was nothing in Peru that could have helped the FBI further Natalee's case so it's not logical or plausible that that would be a reason not to nab him as soon as he arrived...

The only ruse I see is just a new campaign to get him out of Peruvian prison...plant a seed to shift focus...cast blame elsewhere enough to cause doubt..and Joran's word blaming it all someone else..

Elton Garcia/FBI = security guards = Deepak must have come back and must have raped her = the MB conspiracy = medjet = the host of all the other "they must have done it" ruses and conspiracies.. JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Anna on June 22, 2010, 10:57:45 AM
Relatives bring food to the prisoners.  I wonder if Joran has evern considered these women want to marry him in order to bring him poisoned food.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Buckeye on June 22, 2010, 11:14:17 AM
I don't believe the FBI business.  The State Department would have had to work it out with Peru.  I just don't think an extortion case would be worth all the effort.  We also have extradition treaties with the Netherlands (and most countries).

If I give an FBI sting a possibility, I would say they need to update their hidden camera equipment.  The box did not seem very covert to me.  Even if they were monitoring him....he goes to a casino, picks up a girl, and returns to his hotel room.  I don't think they would have swooped in for that "infringement".
How would they have anticipated his actions in the room?  If it was FBI, the room itself would have been bugged.  Now, that might be an interesting tape!

The Big Bad American FBI is always an easy out for foreigners looking for a repression tactic.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 11:15:13 AM
In the last thread or so, I asked if Lourdes Flores was related to Stephany's dad. It was said it was not his wife. In exploring for L. Flores on uTube I found a blurb about her and Peruvian Airlines in it. It was also showing pictures of a race car driver before and after her data. The driver looked like Stephany's dad.

There is a reason, of which I am sorry to say I cannot tell now that I need to know if they are relatives. Lourdes Flores ran for President. I am not sure if she won or not. Stephany's dad ran for vice pres and President.

Would one of our Monkey family summarize what is going on from the beginning of this clip to about the 8:00 mark especially any data, relationships between the race car driver, Lourdes and Peruvian Airlines? I read somewhere that Lourdes is on their board, but wondered why they are referencing a race car drive in the blurb and who he is, and what race he was in. TIA

IBE    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PiX90eC38&feature=related)
The first news reports of Stephany's murder said she was stabbed to death. In the one interview with her father, he puts his finger to his neck like a cutting motion, but says he cannot talk about it because of her mother. I am beginning to think Joran managed to cut Stephany's throat to disable her.


I don't know how to post the pics but here is the link
 http://www.daylife.com/photo/09oOcoE1PX3ZU

Stephany Flores's mother Marielena Ramirez  cries at her funeral in Lima, June 3, 2010. Chilean police on Thursday detained Joran Van der Sloot, a Dutch man linked to the disappearance of a U.S. student in Aruba in 2005 and who is now the prime suspect in the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores in Peru. Flores was killed on May 30.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Alabamaanna on June 22, 2010, 11:18:56 AM
Excellent post at RU, IMO:

prolific2  PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:53 am         

If Elton Garcia was an FBI agent and was used to lure Joran to Peru in order to extradite him to the US for the extortion charge, once he arrived they could or would have just nabbed him....no plausible or logical reason to put on such an elaborate ruse involving people that could have spilled the beans or wait that long and give him a chance to get away again.

And there was nothing in Peru that could have helped the FBI further Natalee's case so it's not logical or plausible that that would be a reason not to nab him as soon as he arrived...

The only ruse I see is just a new campaign to get him out of Peruvian prison...plant a seed to shift focus...cast blame elsewhere enough to cause doubt..and Joran's word blaming it all someone else..

Elton Garcia/FBI = security guards = Deepak must have come back and must have raped her = the MB conspiracy = medjet = the host of all the other "they must have done it" ruses and conspiracies.. JMO


I don't really care if the director of the FBI bought Joran a plane ticket to Peru and personally delivered it to his house.  Joran killed Stephany in cold blood and no one is responsible for that except him.  No one held a gun to his head, told him to do it or helped him.  And again, if the director of the FBI personally erected the cameras that caught him red-handed the GOOD ON HIM. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 11:21:14 AM
Excellent post at RU, IMO:

prolific2  PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:53 am         

If Elton Garcia was an FBI agent and was used to lure Joran to Peru in order to extradite him to the US for the extortion charge, once he arrived they could or would have just nabbed him....no plausible or logical reason to put on such an elaborate ruse involving people that could have spilled the beans or wait that long and give him a chance to get away again.

And there was nothing in Peru that could have helped the FBI further Natalee's case so it's not logical or plausible that that would be a reason not to nab him as soon as he arrived...

The only ruse I see is just a new campaign to get him out of Peruvian prison...plant a seed to shift focus...cast blame elsewhere enough to cause doubt..and Joran's word blaming it all someone else..

Elton Garcia/FBI = security guards = Deepak must have come back and must have raped her = the MB conspiracy = medjet = the host of all the other "they must have done it" ruses and conspiracies.. JMO


I don't really care if the director of the FBI bought Joran a plane ticket to Peru and personally delivered it to his house.  Joran killed Stephany in cold blood and no one is responsible for that except him.  No one held a gun to his head, told him to do it or helped him.  And again, if the director of the FBI personally erected the cameras that caught him red-handed the GOOD ON HIM. 

You Go Girl!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 11:22:19 AM
Joran Van Der Sloot A Nenga Di Declara Dilanti Di Huez
Publication: Diamars, 22 Juni 2010.

Ayera durante interogatorio

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Mientras cu tur dia tin yen di informacion ta drenta for di tur media internacional encuanto e situacion di Joran van der Sloot na Peru,  e ultimo desaroyonan tabata relaciona cu e interogatorio cu lo mester a tuma lugar ayera.

     Ta asina cu Van der Sloot a nenga di declara dilanti di e huez cu ta hibando e caso, esaki segun informe di e Corte Superior di Husticia di Lima.


   Joran ayera a haya bishita di e huez Carlos Morales den e prision Miguel Castro Castro kende a bay pa interogue encuanto e homicidio di Stephany Flores.

    Segun CSJ, Joran a nenga di duna su declaracion alegando cu ainda tin pendiente e tramite di habeas corpus cu el a presenta pa declara invalido e interogatorio policial den cual el a confesa su crimen.

   E huez a suspende e interogatorio te un proximo aviso.

    Den su defensa, Van der Sloot a presenta un recurso di habeas corpus señalando cu durante su interogacion nan no a respeta su derechonan.

     Segun De Telegraaf, den un entrevista, Joran a bisa cu el a wordo intimida pa e polis peruano. “Mi tabata hopi spanta y confundi durante e interogatorio y mi tabata kier bay”.  “Presa di e panico, mi a firma tur cos, pero ni sikiera mi tabata sa kico mi tabata bisa”, De Telegraaf a publica.

  E abogado peruano di van der Sloot, Maximo Altez, kende tabata presente ayera, a nenga tambe di duna declaracion na prensa y a bisa cu nan lo haci esaki otro siman,  ora cu e famia di Joran haci acto di presencia na Lima.

  Segun De Telegraaf, Anita van der Sloot lo a bisa cu su yiu ta malo di cabez y a nenga di cu lo bay bishita Joran den prison.

   A señala cu e no ta kere cu Joran a mata Natalee, pero cu si el a mata Stephany e lo tin cu paga e prijs di esey”. 

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-a-nenga-di-declara-dilanti-di-huez/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 22, 2010, 11:23:24 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?

I don't know what the brown bottle is ...

But these seem to be actual crime scene photos, 21 of them, but I can't seem to advance through the different photos. Don't know if it's a problem with the site or with where I am ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008352-504083.html?tag=cbsnewsCrimesiderArea.1
It really looks like a medicine bottle to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 22, 2010, 11:27:20 AM
Yes-that is a good post, Klaas.  It only makes sense that if the FBI had lured Joran to Peru they would have wasted no time in arresting him once he got there, imo.

I think the Sloots have the FBI on the brain--remember the night Beth & Jug and their friends arrived at the Sloot's compound, didn't the Sloots jump to the conclusion that Jug's friends were the FBI? lol...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 11:28:59 AM
RTL 4 parent interviews Joran
RTL 4 seems to struggle with SBS 6 on the coverage of Joran van der Sloot. SBS always seemed to have almost exclusive rights, partly in collaboration with Peter R. de Vries, but now also in the mix RTL violence.
Joran van der Sloot

Joran van der Sloot (left) after his arrest
RTL sends a Tuesday interview with the mother of Van der Sloot. The program RTL Extra: The Mother of Joran Speaks can be seen instead of the TV Broker.

Talked
A spokesman for RTL indicates that the broadcast "undoubtedly controversial 'will be. "She talks about how the past five years has experienced the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway in Aruba to the murder of Stephany Flores in Peru," the spokesman let know.

Anita Van der Sloot has a difficult time behind him. For years the course ran to her son suspected of the murder of Natalee Holloway, and in February 2010 after her husband died, Joran is so once again suspected of murder.

Emotionally immature
Earlier today, the television channel CNN was a psychological report into police hands. The report showed that Joran is someone with a low frustration tolerance. " In other words, Joran can not cope well with setbacks.

The report also cites Van der Sloot "emotionally immature". "He shows a certain show dominance towards women. He has little respect for women", says the report read.

Impede
Instead, it emphasizes that all this "does not show that psychological trauma impedes him in the observation and assessment of reality", or: Joran may well see when something should or should not do.

Tuesday at 20.30, the interview with the mother of Joran broadcast on RTL 4. Look forward to following a movie where Joran arrives at the court in Peru.

http://www.televizier.nl/site/list_message/64460


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 22, 2010, 11:29:34 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?

I don't know what the brown bottle is ...

But these seem to be actual crime scene photos, 21 of them, but I can't seem to advance through the different photos. Don't know if it's a problem with the site or with where I am ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008352-504083.html?tag=cbsnewsCrimesiderArea.1
It really looks like a medicine bottle to me.

Maybe it's a peroxide bottle?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: robots on June 22, 2010, 11:31:09 AM
so, the FBI was taping everything but forgot to put a camera in the ROOM??

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz  INSERT ROLLING EYES


more vandergarbageslop

Peru wont be BUYING into any of this

lock him up, 

case over


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2010, 11:33:01 AM
Good Morning Monkeys :)  I can't get this pic in this post so here is the link

 http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page

does anyone know what the brown bottle is?

Beer?

I don't know what the brown bottle is ...

But these seem to be actual crime scene photos, 21 of them, but I can't seem to advance through the different photos. Don't know if it's a problem with the site or with where I am ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008352-504083.html?tag=cbsnewsCrimesiderArea.1
It really looks like a medicine bottle to me.

Maybe it's a peroxide bottle?

Yes and did you know even a Hydrogen Peroxide:can bleach your hair to some point I know I DID IT WHEN I WAS 12 LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 11:34:39 AM
I just caught up.  Thanks to all for the quotes, articles, updates and insights.

It would appear that Joran travels after leaving Aruba were known to the FBI.  The twists and turns regarding the events encompassing the Natalee Holloway story are beyond an author's imagination.

1.  Could it be that Joran was lured and followed to Peru and ... the plan was to extradict him from there to the US on the extortion charge?

2.  Could it be that the FBI realized that the Aruban enemy who were "cooperating" with them on the extortion sting could not be trusted?

3.  Not anticipating Stephany's murder ... could it be that the FBI agent (Elton Garcia) assigned to follow Joran lost him when he fled to Chile?

Janet

+++++++++

'My son is sick in his head', says Joran van der Sloot's mother
Saturday 19 June 2010


Anita van der Sloot said Joran had been very affected by his father's death earlier this year and felt he was responsible.

She also told the paper Joran went to Peru to avoid being admitted to a closed unit in a psychiatric hospital in the Netherlands.

'He had agreed to be admitted. Two days before he was due to leave for the Netherlands, he left the house,' the paper quoted her as saying. He left was a note on the kitchen table telling her not to worry and he had gone to Peru for a poker tournament, she said.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/my_son_is_sick_in_his_head_say.php


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 11:35:48 AM
These hyenas howling about "no extradition treaty with Aruba" ... I would like a link to something official, authentic, that says no such treaty exists.

Here, on the other hand, is a link to something that explains that even after Aruba becomes autonomous (which has happened), the extradition treaty and other agreements in place with The Netherlands, will be observed by independent Aruba. I am sorry that it isn't something that I can copy/paste.

http://books.google.com/books?id=O4epd0nOJbsC&pg=PA378&lpg=PA378&dq=Extradition+%2B+Aruba&source=bl&ots=I4OL7du2K6&sig=LeltpyyQWZB2UCpZktpRhzzfvBs&hl=en&ei=SNUgTIXMBYaglAfHmbFK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAzhQ#v=onepage&q=Extradition%20%2B%20Aruba&f=false

And The US and The Netherlands have bilateral extradition treaties. The Netherlands (and Aruba) might refuse in a death-penalty case, but (how sweet it is) the pertinent case involves extortion/fraud.

I hate it when people just make things up.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 11:37:55 AM
RTL 4 last Tuesday an additional broadcast on the Joran van Sloot. Joran's mother, Anita van der Sloot, will include answers to the question whether they are visiting her son in Peru. According to RTL Netherlands is a "controversial" broadcast. "RTL Extra: The Mother of Joran Speaks' on Tuesday (June 22) between 20.30 and 21.30 hours to see.

For the first time Anita van der Sloot goes on TV. She says in the interview about his childhood, how he managed to escape parental control and many lies. Also she explains how she has experienced over the past five years, the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway in Aruba to the murder of Stephany Flores in Peru. What does the future they Joran, and how she sees her son as a mother now? [Radio.NL]

http://www.radio.nl/portal/home/medianieuws/010.archief/2010/06/154468.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: no rose colored glasses on June 22, 2010, 11:38:29 AM
Seriously, Anita had to be lying about Joran eating flies as a child. What person eats flies? And if that is true, right then and there, my kid would have been brought to a psychiatrist.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: msmarple on June 22, 2010, 11:40:16 AM
NRCG - that article was a spoof.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 11:41:42 AM
Excellent post at RU, IMO:

prolific2  PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:53 am         

If Elton Garcia was an FBI agent and was used to lure Joran to Peru in order to extradite him to the US for the extortion charge, once he arrived they could or would have just nabbed him....no plausible or logical reason to put on such an elaborate ruse involving people that could have spilled the beans or wait that long and give him a chance to get away again.

And there was nothing in Peru that could have helped the FBI further Natalee's case so it's not logical or plausible that that would be a reason not to nab him as soon as he arrived...

The only ruse I see is just a new campaign to get him out of Peruvian prison...plant a seed to shift focus...cast blame elsewhere enough to cause doubt..and Joran's word blaming it all someone else..

Elton Garcia/FBI = security guards = Deepak must have come back and must have raped her = the MB conspiracy = medjet = the host of all the other "they must have done it" ruses and conspiracies.. JMO


I don't really care if the director of the FBI bought Joran a plane ticket to Peru and personally delivered it to his house.  Joran killed Stephany in cold blood and no one is responsible for that except him.  No one held a gun to his head, told him to do it or helped him.  And again, if the director of the FBI personally erected the cameras that caught him red-handed the GOOD ON HIM. 

EXACTLY!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: MisGivings on June 22, 2010, 11:45:14 AM
Seriously, Anita had to be lying about Joran eating flies as a child. What person eats flies? And if that is true, right then and there, my kid would have been brought to a psychiatrist.
LOL, that was a satire. Not true at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 22, 2010, 11:45:45 AM
;)

(http://www.bucuticam.com/album2/Images/172.zoom3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: cecilita on June 22, 2010, 11:48:37 AM
Yes-that is a good post, Klaas.  It only makes sense that if the FBI had lured Joran to Peru they would have wasted no time in arresting him once he got there, imo.

I think the Sloots have the FBI on the brain--remember the night Beth & Jug and their friends arrived at the Sloot's compound, didn't the Sloots jump to the conclusion that Jug's friends were the FBI? lol...
what about the monster's lawyer adviced him to kill somebody in sout america to avoid extradition to usa, a crime bigger than extortion so the monster will not come to america.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 22, 2010, 11:52:41 AM
If Joran wants to come out and say his confession was coerced, that the investigation wasn't handled properly the Peruvian officials need to just put him in gen pop. Don't protect this psychopath any longer. They said they would protect him in Castro Castro, oops they lied!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 11:52:51 AM
Maybe all the i's had not been dotted and all the t's had been crossed and that is the reason the FBI did not began the extradiction process immediately upon Joran's arrival in Peru.  Considering an agent was following Joran ... assuring the extortion case was solid was the priority.

The criminal complaint against Joran was filed by the FBI on June 3, 2010.

Janet

++++++

Department of Justice Press Release
 
For Immediate Release
June 3, 2010 United States Attorney's Office
Northern District of Alabama
Contact: (205) 244-2001

 
Joran van der Sloot Charged with Fraud and Extortion in Birmingham

BIRMINGHAM—Federal prosecutors in Birmingham have filed a criminal complaint against JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, a citizen of the Netherlands, on wire fraud and extortion charges in connection with his soliciting money in May on promises he would reveal the location of Natalee Holloway’s remains in Aruba and circumstances of her death, U.S. Attorney Joyce White Vance and FBI Special Agent in Charge Patrick Maley announced today.

“We are committed to protecting citizens from unscrupulous individuals who attempt to financially exploit a person’s deepest fears and greatest loss,” Vance said.

The wire fraud and extortion charges are unrelated to the ongoing murder investigation in Peru, in which van der Sloot is an alleged person of interest.

Vance said her office filed the two-count criminal complaint today in U.S. District Court in Birmingham.

The complaint charges that van der Sloot, on May 10, extorted $15,000 from an individual as partial payment toward his promise to reveal the location of Natalee Holloway’s remains for $250,000. The maximum sentence on the extortion count is 20 years in prison.

The complaint also charges van der Sloot with wire fraud for causing the $15,000 to be transferred by wire from a Birmingham bank to a bank in the Netherlands in furtherance of his scheme to defraud. The maximum sentence for the wire fraud count is 30 years.

Vance thanked Aruban authorities for the assistance they provided in this investigation.
 
Members of the public are reminded that the criminal complaint contains only charges. A defendant is presumed not guilty.

Press Releases | Birmingham Home

http://birmingham.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/bh_060310.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 22, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
forgot to add...

He had currency from all those places. This could mean premeditation. He knows he's going to kill (and on the anniversary of Natalee's death), and he has money from many countries so he has choices on where to run. Just a thought, although we don't know how much currency.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 11:59:33 AM
Got it. Beth on Greta, November 19, 2008:

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: no rose colored glasses on June 22, 2010, 11:59:42 AM
NRCG - that article was a spoof.
OMG, I apologize, will blame it on not enough coffee, or I'm just stupid  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Magnolia on June 22, 2010, 11:59:50 AM
Has anyone, other than Joran, confirmed that Elton Garcia was an FBI agent?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 12:03:19 PM
Yes-that is a good post, Klaas.  It only makes sense that if the FBI had lured Joran to Peru they would have wasted no time in arresting him once he got there, imo.

I think the Sloots have the FBI on the brain--remember the night Beth & Jug and their friends arrived at the Sloot's compound, didn't the Sloots jump to the conclusion that Jug's friends were the FBI? lol...
what about the monster's lawyer adviced him to kill somebody in sout america to avoid extradition to usa, a crime bigger than extortion so the monster will not come to america.

Somehow I believe that detention in the United States on an extortion charge would be preferential over detention in South America on a murder charge.  Something akin to comparing Heaven and H---.  IMO

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 12:08:27 PM
Jinkasauraus just said on In Seeion that Joran had a visitor over the weekend, a friend from the Netherlands flew in to visit him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 12:09:32 PM
forgot to add...

He had currency from all those places. This could mean premeditation. He knows he's going to kill (and on the anniversary of Natalee's death), and he has money from many countries so he has choices on where to run. Just a thought, although we don't know how much currency.

He was broke, even had to borrow $ from Stephany. He had to have stopped somewhere and have some of the $ from Stephany exchanged. If he had it with him in Lima before he killed her he could have exchanged it in Lima maybe even in the casino. Don't forget the taxi drivers were helping him. Did anyone hear how much currency he had? JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 12:09:46 PM
Has anyone, other than Joran, confirmed that Elton Garcia was an FBI agent?

It was only suggested by the Telegraaf reporters, because certain things pointed in that direction.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 12:10:27 PM
Van Der Sloot Refuses to Talk to Peru Judge  Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haiSJ7RE3fA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 12:11:28 PM
Jinkasauraus just said on In Seeion that Joran had a visitor over the weekend, a friend from the Netherlands flew in to visit him.

Was he there on Sunday? Was he bald and tall?
If so, then it was John vd Heuvel. :-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 12:14:57 PM
Joran Goes For Coffee (Missing Picture Added)

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7670377/20392020


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 12:15:00 PM
Jinkasauraus just said on In Seeion that Joran had a visitor over the weekend, a friend from the Netherlands flew in to visit him.

Was he there on Sunday? Was he bald and tall?
If so, then it was John vd Heuvel. :-)

That is all she said.  Maybe she will say more on JVM or NG later today. 

She was also talking about the luminol testing in the hotel room.  There was blood in the bathroom, hallway, bedroom and bed, basically the entire room had blood in it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 12:15:38 PM
Van Der Sloot Says He Was Framed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ia1tG9e0wg


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 12:20:26 PM

I have translated the interview a reporter had with Joran, as printed in today's De Telegraaf.

"IF ONLY I HAD LISTENED TO MY MOTHER"

by our special reporters John van den Heuvel and Bert Huisjes

LIMA (Peru), Tuesday

<snipped>

Regret

... However, looking back now he has "great regret" that he went to Peru from Aruba. In the police file it seems that one of his fellow poker players, Elton Garcia, has all the papers of an American federal agent with him. On one of the casino images he can be seen as a handsome man with dark sunglasses. Garcia was the one who on Tuesday night caused the body of Stephany (21) to be found. Van der Sloot was already on the run. He had the manager of the Atlantic City casino call the hotel to ask if Van der Sloot was in his room.
 
<snipped>


Did journalist John van den Heuvel and Bert Huisjes have access to police files ... police files that indicate that Garcia was an FBI agent?

Janet
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: blah on June 22, 2010, 12:24:43 PM
Maybe all the i's had not been dotted and all the t's had been crossed and that is the reason the FBI did not began the extradiction process immediately upon Joran's arrival in Peru.  Considering an agent was following Joran ... assuring the extortion case was solid was the priority.

The criminal complaint against Joran was filed by the FBI on June 3, 2010.

Janet

++++++

Department of Justice Press Release
 
For Immediate Release
June 3, 2010 United States Attorney's Office
Northern District of Alabama
Contact: (205) 244-2001

 
Joran van der Sloot Charged with Fraud and Extortion in Birmingham

BIRMINGHAM—Federal prosecutors in Birmingham have filed a criminal complaint against JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, a citizen of the Netherlands, on wire fraud and extortion charges in connection with his soliciting money in May on promises he would reveal the location of Natalee Holloway’s remains in Aruba and circumstances of her death, U.S. Attorney Joyce White Vance and FBI Special Agent in Charge Patrick Maley announced today.

“We are committed to protecting citizens from unscrupulous individuals who attempt to financially exploit a person’s deepest fears and greatest loss,” Vance said.

The wire fraud and extortion charges are unrelated to the ongoing murder investigation in Peru, in which van der Sloot is an alleged person of interest.

Vance said her office filed the two-count criminal complaint today in U.S. District Court in Birmingham.

The complaint charges that van der Sloot, on May 10, extorted $15,000 from an individual as partial payment toward his promise to reveal the location of Natalee Holloway’s remains for $250,000. The maximum sentence on the extortion count is 20 years in prison.

The complaint also charges van der Sloot with wire fraud for causing the $15,000 to be transferred by wire from a Birmingham bank to a bank in the Netherlands in furtherance of his scheme to defraud. The maximum sentence for the wire fraud count is 30 years.

Vance thanked Aruban authorities for the assistance they provided in this investigation.
 
Members of the public are reminded that the criminal complaint contains only charges. A defendant is presumed not guilty.

Press Releases | Birmingham Home

http://birmingham.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/bh_060310.htm


All this BS about FBI set-ups is just a bunch of crap they are spewing in an attempt to keep Joran from ever getting extradited to the US.  Look - they are setting me up! You cant send me there!


What a load.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 12:27:20 PM
Joran Goes For Coffee (Missing Picture Added)

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7670377/20392020


Thank you littletxlady.

Barring any backroom deals with Aruba ... Joran is going down!

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2010, 12:30:59 PM
Joran Goes For Coffee (Missing Picture Added)

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7670377/20392020


Thank you littletxlady.

Barring any backroom deals with Aruba ... Joran is going down!

Janet


YW
I was just looking at the CrimeSider pics again and I realized JVS actually dressed Stephany in his shirt that he held over her face!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 12:32:25 PM
van der Sloot Recants Confession

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjwnSDgMQvE


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 12:32:32 PM

I have translated the interview a reporter had with Joran, as printed in today's De Telegraaf.

"IF ONLY I HAD LISTENED TO MY MOTHER"

by our special reporters John van den Heuvel and Bert Huisjes

LIMA (Peru), Tuesday

<snipped>

Regret

... However, looking back now he has "great regret" that he went to Peru from Aruba. In the police file it seems that one of his fellow poker players, Elton Garcia, has all the papers of an American federal agent with him. On one of the casino images he can be seen as a handsome man with dark sunglasses. Garcia was the one who on Tuesday night caused the body of Stephany (21) to be found. Van der Sloot was already on the run. He had the manager of the Atlantic City casino call the hotel to ask if Van der Sloot was in his room.
 
<snipped>


Did journalist John van den Heuvel and Bert Huisjes have access to police files ... police files that indicate that Garcia was an FBI agent?

Janet
 

I have no idea.
But John vd Heuvel was on tv last night saying they did investigate the extortion case, so maybe he got access to some of the police files somehow.
There have been a lot of leaks to the press over the past couple of weeks but no one was really interested in this Elton Garcia so maybe that's why we haven't heard anything about that til now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 12:34:02 PM

I don't really care if the director of the FBI bought Joran a plane ticket to Peru and personally delivered it to his house.  Joran killed Stephany in cold blood and no one is responsible for that except him.  No one held a gun to his head, told him to do it or helped him.  And again, if the director of the FBI personally erected the cameras that caught him red-handed the GOOD ON HIM. 

BOTTOM LINE!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Edward on June 22, 2010, 12:41:41 PM
A bowl of water big enough to put Joran's big deformed head into would be more like a vat!

Who is he kidding with this?

SNIP
The maximum sentence for murder in Peru is a mere 35 years. If convicted, here's betting he'll never serve nearly that much time.
end

Life is just a big poker game to Joran.
He knows people.
He has the game in play.
He has some power IF Peru has no backbone and caves into the onslught of people moving to free him.
jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 12:43:12 PM
Joran`s mom speaks (preview)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnpTOqRfqhY


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: RoxiBalboa on June 22, 2010, 12:44:16 PM
In the crimesider photos, if photo #16 is taken from the doorway of the room, and that is Stephany's body with the sheet, I don't see how the hotel worker didn't see it. I thought Mark Fuhrman or someone reported from the doorway you wouldn't be able to see the body but that shot sure looks like it was taken from the doorway.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Northern Rose on June 22, 2010, 12:46:54 PM
Joran`s mom speaks (preview)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnpTOqRfqhY

Same video with English subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EM7B8qMqM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Tamikosmom on June 22, 2010, 12:49:35 PM
Thanks Northern Rose.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 12:56:41 PM
Seriously, Anita had to be lying about Joran eating flies as a child. What person eats flies? And if that is true, right then and there, my kid would have been brought to a psychiatrist.

...and I never knew potted meat had peckers in it. That`s kind of like Cracker Jacks.

Always a surprise inside! rofl


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Jo-An on June 22, 2010, 12:59:28 PM
Jinkasauraus just said on In Seeion that Joran had a visitor over the weekend, a friend from the Netherlands flew in to visit him.

Was he there on Sunday? Was he bald and tall?
If so, then it was John vd Heuvel. :-)

That is all she said.  Maybe she will say more on JVM or NG later today. 

She was also talking about the luminol testing in the hotel room.  There was blood in the bathroom, hallway, bedroom and bed, basically the entire room had blood in it.

John vd Heuvel was on tv again just now and he said that when he was waiting inside the prison with all the other visitors there was an American female reporter who tried to get inside too and also interview Joran.
Joran found out about it after one of the guards said to him: "there's an American woman waiting for you" and he had the guard send her away.
Could it have been... Jinkasaurus? (love that name btw!!)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 01:01:16 PM
Jinkasauraus just said on In Seeion that Joran had a visitor over the weekend, a friend from the Netherlands flew in to visit him.

Was he there on Sunday? Was he bald and tall?
If so, then it was John vd Heuvel. :-)

That is all she said.  Maybe she will say more on JVM or NG later today. 

She was also talking about the luminol testing in the hotel room.  There was blood in the bathroom, hallway, bedroom and bed, basically the entire room had blood in it.

John vd Heuvel was on tv again just now and he said that when he was waiting inside the prison with all the other visitors there was an American female reporter who tried to get inside too and also interview Joran.
Joran found out about it after one of the guards said to him: "there's an American woman waiting for you" and he had the guard send her away.
Could it have been... Jinkasaurus? (love that name btw!!)

Likely yes


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 22, 2010, 01:02:42 PM
Yes-that is a good post, Klaas.  It only makes sense that if the FBI had lured Joran to Peru they would have wasted no time in arresting him once he got there, imo.

I think the Sloots have the FBI on the brain--remember the night Beth & Jug and their friends arrived at the Sloot's compound, didn't the Sloots jump to the conclusion that Jug's friends were the FBI? lol...
what about the monster's lawyer adviced him to kill somebody in sout america to avoid extradition to usa, a crime bigger than extortion so the monster will not come to america.

?? I must have missed reading that one! ... That's crazy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: Ono on June 22, 2010, 01:05:12 PM
These hyenas howling about "no extradition treaty with Aruba" ... I would like a link to something official, authentic, that says no such treaty exists.

Here, on the other hand, is a link to something that explains that even after Aruba becomes autonomous (which has happened), the extradition treaty and other agreements in place with The Netherlands, will be observed by independent Aruba. I am sorry that it isn't something that I can copy/paste.

http://books.google.com/books?id=O4epd0nOJbsC&pg=PA378&lpg=PA378&dq=Extradition+%2B+Aruba&source=bl&ots=I4OL7du2K6&sig=LeltpyyQWZB2UCpZktpRhzzfvBs&hl=en&ei=SNUgTIXMBYaglAfHmbFK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAzhQ#v=onepage&q=Extradition%20%2B%20Aruba&f=false

And The US and The Netherlands have bilateral extradition treaties. The Netherlands (and Aruba) might refuse in a death-penalty case, but (how sweet it is) the pertinent case involves extortion/fraud.

I hate it when people just make things up.



Thanks for posting this info!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: loca on June 22, 2010, 01:10:01 PM
hello monkeys
I have a question?? anyone ?? re: anita saying Joran ate flies where did that info come from any link?? I am confoosed.
tia


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 22, 2010, 01:12:01 PM
so, the FBI was taping everything but forgot to put a camera in the ROOM??

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz  INSERT ROLLING EYES


more vandergarbageslop

Peru wont be BUYING into any of this

lock him up, 

case over

No translation needed.......Peruvian authorities and FBI laughing their @sses off


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: seemeatthebeach on June 22, 2010, 01:14:07 PM
hello monkeys
I have a question?? anyone ?? re: anita saying Joran ate flies where did that info come from any link?? I am confoosed.
tia

it was a spoof article loca........http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i77269#this

Entirely Fictitious


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 22, 2010, 01:14:11 PM
hello monkeys
I have a question?? anyone ?? re: anita saying Joran ate flies where did that info come from any link?? I am confoosed.
tia

Keep reading...you'll find that the article was a spoof, I believe...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 01:14:16 PM
I'm not sure if I care if Joran ate flies, LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 01:14:59 PM
I'll get the thread change 2NJ, I'm all ready!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 01:15:59 PM
Is the judge supposed to decide today how to proceed and if the confession with stand?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 22, 2010, 01:16:11 PM
Klaas, I agree about the flies & Joran.....LOL

I can do the thread change, btw.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: loca on June 22, 2010, 01:16:56 PM
I'm not sure if I care if Joran ate flies, LOL

lol klaasend well maybe next he will be eating the rats that crawl out of his toilet yuk 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 22, 2010, 01:17:38 PM
I'll get the thread change 2NJ, I'm all ready!

OK...I'm ready, too, but should be getting recycling together....;(


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: carpe noctem on June 22, 2010, 01:19:01 PM
I'm not sure if I care if Joran ate flies, LOL

He probably did... he is a little woolly eyed freak! LOLOL

That article had me rolling. :)

It read like it was straight from De Telegraaf.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2010, 01:20:51 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/moderator%20pics/MODLOCK1.gif)

Please move to NCD #841

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8145.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: imnoangel on June 22, 2010, 04:37:18 PM
i also do not understand a ma like this Altez.
he must know he is defending a murderer.
Of course, Joran should be convicted and do his many years in jail or be hanged or whatever.

But what about this attorney? everyone has the right on a honest trial.
but i truly believe it is a crime to help such people as Joran where it is so obvious that he
took the life of at least one person, avoid his punishment.
and an attorney is just doing it for the money.
i think that is criminal too but i do not hear/read anything about that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10
Post by: imnoangel on June 22, 2010, 04:40:24 PM
this Altez should make sure it is a fair trial, not try every trick in the book so that a murderer walks the streets again.