Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Thought we'd never get here!

I did open my presents before Christmas day  ::MonkeyCool::  My mother made me do it  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyBike::

Smooth ride, thanks! 

Good night all, thank you so much for the very excellent conversations on here.  Thank you Muffybee for that beautiful photo of Kyron.  That's why we are all here in the first place and I know if we could all get together at Skyline we would try our best to bring him home.

I sure wish that tomorrow would be the LAST FRIDAY he is ever missing...

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Kyron/Desiree_Kyron.jpg)

I wrote Jason the question in case he comes in and he can see it.

Though, I don't blame him if he doesn't show up.

The artwork with Kyron's photo is from Brandi.   ::dogwag::

ditto

Awww!  :*(

I miss hearing from Desiree and Tony, I wish they would speak.  Seems like ever since they testified for the gj they have all be very quiet.  Maybe they have been ordered not to talk?

does a monkey remember, which cage TH emails was posted in
i tried TH emails, horman emails

this is the latest information I can find.
I am worried this story may wither if LE doesn't disclose something meaningful soon.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Grand-jury-still-hearing-Kyron-Horman-case-101124089.html

I am petrified by the fact Desiree and Kaine are not speaking now. 

Maybe they will not speak as long as the GJ is in session?

Not that their PCs were doing any good lately, only bring attention to the step mother.

MOO

About the black light idea:

1. It is white things that are washed in detergent that fluoresce. White shirts done at the dry cleaners will not fluoresce. In a night club with black lights you can easily which white shirts are which.

2. The main problem with searching at night is the danger for the searchers in rough areas even if the carry strong flashlights. Also, there is so much they can overlook at night that it is better to get some rest and start fresh in the morning.

It is a great idea, and I am sure there are many instances when it can be used effectively.

The PC's were at least keeping Kyron's story in the news.   If they completely stop talking to the media the story will go away. I've seen it happen too many times. 

Kyron Horman grand jury quiet - for now

http://www.kgw.com/news/Grand-jury-still-hearing-Kyron-Horman-case-101124089.html

SS for OT but can someone give me a link to Halieghs forum?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7934.msg1212452#new

Is something happening?

That's true.

Seen it too.

:(

CNN saying Misty gave a huge story about Joe, her brother and a garbage bag

SS seems to be old news but thank you kindly for the link

I don't think Desiree can go through another press conference, but I would expect at least one of the trio would come forward to say they are still waiting for Kyron. It could be that they have been asked not to speak for awhile, and the press might bombard them with questions about the Grand Jury.

Thanks Lenie

Hi,  That was on NG last night.  What I did read tonight is the one thing constant with all these changing stories is the black bag.  I hope all these players in the case are charged in some way so they are marked for life.  Such a precious little girlie girl.     ::MonkeyAngel::

found the link to emails
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

the blue search button works better, it lets u set parameters

i wonder why she didnt mention to whoever the email was to
that she had run into, i think her name was audrey, TH makes a
point of the receipt, stamped 9;12

I'm hoping whatever the reason is, it can be taken as a sign LE is making progress. I only say that because Tony is in LE and I'm sure has more inside access and I would think if Desiree saw the search was at a stand still, being Kyron's mom, she would fix that herself and be out begging for help, leads, whatever it took to keep this front page news and the searchers actively looking.

...oh....Just making sure it's not due to being held up on some bogus TH all-about-me charges, like TH couldn't have slipped in some slander suit or whatever making it where they can't publicly talk, could she?

I doubt TH has a slander suit going. She is avoiding having to testify about anything. Maybe later.

 ::HelloKitty::

In order to prove slander, TH would have to prove that the things said are lies.  I'm not sure what it is that they have said that Terri can prove is a lie.

Being one to test theories, just to see what a clean slate/random outcome is, tonight I had 3 of my kids who were with me most of Tuesday, write down their time lines. I did as well and then we compared them all. They were all different, none of us had real proof on us, some we could get but alibi proof, like I clocked in at work at 11:29, but as my oldest son said "we weren't prepared."  I expected different timelines just not to the degree ours were different.

After still arguing trying to sync our arrival and leaving times, (we were all in the same car), one of my sons got frustrated and made the comment "had I known this was gonna be a test, I would have made it a point to get documentation and I could prove you all wrong. I would have them take note of when I scanned my RC card and kept my milkshake receipt."

This led me right back to just how prepared and documented TH was on the day Kyron went missing. Is she normally *prepared* like that, with receipts, people/witnesses she talks (making it a point to flash pictures of her soon to me MIA stepson at the science fair-the science fair she just now left from), etc? is anyone on a normal day, anyone clueless to the fact the day will end like this?

I think her complete documented timeline, for the day her stepson just happened to go missing, speaks a whole lot louder she's guilty, than it does she's innocent.

Oh good that was what I was hoping the answer was-TH has done enough damage already, I was hoping she couldn't play a lawsuit game and slow anything down.

Hi Shy-monkey,  Boy, Don't ever be shy !!!  What a pertinent thought you had, "Is she normally "prepared" like that, with receipts, people/witnesses she talks to . ."     How true.  After I look at my statement online I toss those receipts.  Why keep them?  Hmmmm, Now I wonder if she was a detail person or the opposite.  People I have known are usually one or the other.  ;}

I was more worried that she may have resorted to flinging lawsuits out, as in lawsuits that are never proven, just stall things while they're pending. I quit reading on her so called support site because she seems to think the most important, possible only victim in all this is her. I read on it long enough to see she is a self absorbed, needy, person that doesn't care who she harms or stomps on as long as it will benefit her.

The Devils Advocate

If I was not officially declared a person of interest ... if an arrest and charges were not forthcoming ... I would be consulting my attorneys in regards to my retaliatory options encompassing those claiming an official foundation which  caused me to be removed from my home ... those claiming an official foundation which alienated me from my baby ... those claiming an official foundation that I was not cooperating with investigators.

Janet

+++++

Investigators put pressure on Terri Moulton Horman's friends, including DeDe Spicher
Published: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 7:50 PM
Updated: Friday, July 23, 2010, 11:52 AM

Letter from Kyron's parents, stepfather

"We have been briefed by law enforcement on the most recent developments in Kyron’s case.  We have been informed  that they have identified a person that has been in close communication with Terri Moulton Horman since Kyron went missing and her name is DeDe Spicher.  She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son.  Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well.  We implore DeDe Spicer (sic) to come forward and cooperate with the investigators in any way that they need in order to assist us in finding our son.  We will state further that if we find out through the investigation that she caused a delay in us finding our son due to her lack of cooperation, we will pursue civil remedies in this matter.

"We as a family cannot understand how anyone can look at Kyron’s smiling face, having information and choose not to help bring him home.  Please remember what this is about, it’s about bringing a wonderful little boy back to his family.

"Desiree, Tony, and Kaine"

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html


Kaine Horman asks judge to make Terri Moulton Horman move out of his house
Published: Thursday, July 08, 2010, 12:06 PM
Updated: Thursday, July 08, 2010, 6:43 PM

Multnomah County judge today unsealed the petition for the restraining order which Kaine Horman obtained on June 28, two days after investigators informed him that his wife had offered to pay a landscaper to kill him months before his son's disappearance.

"I believe respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010. I also recently learned that respondent attempted to hire someone to murder me,'' Kaine Horman wrote in his petition. "The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true."  

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/judge_releases_restraining_ord.html


MULTNOMAH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS NO COMMENTS REGARDING THE JULY 8, 2010 YOUNG/HORMAN PRESS CONFERENCES
Posted: July 8th, 2010 6:48 PM

There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported during the Horman/Young July 8, 2010 press conferences.   The information released in during these conferences did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.  This is an ongoing investigation. ....

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm

The Devil's Advocate

If somebody maliciously slandered me ... it is he/she who had better be able to prove it in a court of law.

Janet

HI there!!! I'm the same way, even in store shopping I toss the receipts unless it's an unentered debit card and/or there's a chance I will need to return. I'm wondering if this is the norm for her too. If I had to guess, this isn't normal behavior. Comments, emails, etc recently posted, but written prior to Kyron disappearing didn't focus on exact details. I know people are different but the people I know, that are normally timeline aware, are also the same in their emails, texts etc. Like where I would say I ran into so and so last week, they would say they saw so and so at fred meyers last wednesday on their way to wherever.

From what I can tell in the past TH used mostly broader details, last month, next week, last winter, clear up until the day Kyron went missing, then suddenly she's all about details, when she arrived at school at this time, she left the school at that time, it took this many minutes to drive to this place etc and even has proof..whatever..

If it were me who had gone shopping a Freddy's in the morning and a few hours later (after school) I was being questioned as to where I'd been...I would still have those receipts around somewhere, even if I had to go pull them out of the trashcan.  A few hours later...I could put my hands on them.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman's stepmother is a profile in contradictions

Some very nice pictures go along with this article, too.

VERY interesting article puzzler  :thumleft: thanks

It's going to be a real busy day tomarrow after all the monkeys read that article! So Much Information! ..

.I'm thinking she built up and up and up and snapped...perhaps after she said good bye to Kyron she stopped to talk to someone and noticed that Kyron was NOT going straight to class as she told him to, but was going to see the cool "electrical" project.  Since there had been discussion around Kyron not "listening" maybe this blew her gasket. She may have then taken him out to the truck....telling him he was going to be punished....scaring him....then she drove a terrified Kyron to the first Fred Meyers and told him to stay in the car, threatening him again...maybe even taking his glasses at that point...went in to establish an alibi...then drove to the next Fred Meyers and established the second alibi....same scenario with leaving Kyron in the truck,...then they went home....TH anger became rage and she did something horrible in anger. Instantly realizing her mistake, she calls her good friend DDS and asks her to bbsit Kiara.......but then I sort of lose my train of thought on how it goes from here. I can see TH placing Kyron into something to conceal him, placing him in the truck, driving around as the cell phone pings indicated and dumping Kyron. With a tit for tat thats that attitude. Wiping her hands and excusing her actions as justifiable.

Just my opinion and my current train of thought, changes frequently.
 ::MonkeyMad::  Bring Kyron Home!

Hey zippiddy!
I love your monkey, especially the expression on its face! Too darn funny! Our friend Jason is posting in his thread. ::MonkeyDevil:: ::MonkeyDevil:: ::MonkeyDevil::

Actually, in a court of law if you felt that you were being slandered, YOU would have to prove that the information was a lie.  Therein is the problem.

Thanks, Puzzler.  We finally hear from James.

 ::HelloKitty::

That article about Terri made me positively ill.  The amounts of money she has gone through and what did she do with it all?  The money from the settlement, the money from her parents, a free, expensive college degree.

Her total lack of caring or understanding that she should not take it upon herself to destroy others property such as in the teacher's classroom or the roommate's bookcase.  Wow!

And is there anymore question why Kyron didn't get out of his bed in the morning?  I bet he didn't have permission.

Punishing a child for all of those hours at home.  I wonder how often Kaine was out of town and what happened when he wasn't home?

She was also upset with the baby not sleeping at night.  I think she was done being a mother.  I think she planned on doing something to Kyron.

And I didn't believe it, but maybe she did plan on suing the school.  She has one nice hefty lawsuit under her belt already.

Thanks Puzzler!   ::HelloKitty::
That was very interesting.

Way back somewhere I had mentioned about why a 7yo boy would stay in bed until someone would come and get him out.  That has always bothered me.  I think I have my answer.  For what ever reason she had turned on Kyron.  Why would you want a daily update on a child from a teacher?  It sounds like he was being , at least, mentally abused by her. 

For the first time my hope that Kyron would come home safe is shattered.   ::MonkeyMad::

James sounds like a very well adjusted young man who will do good in life.  I'm so glad to see that.

I do hope at the very least James and Kaine will be able to continue their relationship. I feel that is important.  Especially for James and Kiara. 

I also hope they will be able to find Kyron soon if only to bring his family closure. I also hope the guilty party/parties pay for the rest of their lives for this.

Nuff said.

Hellokitty  ::HelloKitty::

GREED.  I'm sorry to scream, I still say she did whatever it was for greed. 
"Follow the money" a friend once told me.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Maybe she wanted the daily updates on Kyron because she thought there might be something wrong with Kyron (attention disorder) and, as a teacher herself, she knew the best way to try to figure out if he needed special attention was to get the daily reports to see what was going on and to ensure that the teachers were giving him attention.

The thing about the inheritance was odd to me, too.

That's been my opinion from the very beginning. Money. She wanted Kaine dead for his insurance money, and his assets. That didn't work out, so she started setting up poor little Kyron. And I also still believe she saw Michael Cook as a replacement for Kaine because he is well paid, he is available, and he apparently indicated some interest. She was trying to find another man to take care of her because it was obvious that Kaine was catching on to her dark side, and that he was going to divorce her.
Never for one moment have I ever thought she was "set up" by anyone. She has done all the manipulating of everyone else for years. I also never thought Kaine made James leave.

I really want to believe that Kyron is stashed somewhere, and that he is alive, but I really don't think he is.

I might believe this about the request of the teacher except she also wanted Kyron disciplined when he didn't have a green card. Why would you discipline him instead of assist him. That doesn't show caring to me. It shows the behavior of a mean witch. JMO

Sounds like "Mommy Dearest " syndrome to me......... ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/08/20/kyron-horman-case-an-informative-look-at-terri/

Kyron Horman case: An informative look at Terri

Posted on August 20th, 2010 by Valhall

The Oregonian has a very informative article written about Terri Horman in which her ex-husband Richard Ecker, her son James Tarver, and Kaine Horman are interviewed as well as many other people who knew and interacted with Terri in some form or fashion in her adult life.  The article is very good and I encourage everyone to take time to read it.  Here are the important things I pulled from it:

    * Terri has shown a tendency to be a control freak in several areas of her life.  Particularly in the brief times she has spent substitute teaching, being regarded as very strict and extremely organized (by the way, I don’t see either of those as negative in a teacher, but point to them as an example of controlling tendencies that if applied in inappropriate circumstances, or with self-centered motives become negative).

 ::monkeyscissors::

Good Friday Morning all... I hope this day finds you all well and Happy.  After reading that article the first thing that popped in my head was Borderline Personality Disorder.
I am not a psychiatrist but from past work experience in a field working with adults with challenges Terri seems to have a lot of the classic symptoms of this disorder. She seems to switch from idealizing the people she knows to devaluing them. She also had fluctuations in her self image as well as impulse issues.  Alot of people can live with this disorder and I believe it starts to wane as they get older. I can see Terri reaching a snapping point, kind of like Casey who was in the height of her disorder. This is all just my opinion and I don't even know if the article is accurate. But it certainly could explain Terri's personality and why we all have a hard time trying to understand why she is acting the way she is with Kyron missing. Although her lawyer may tell her to not speak to anyone, Terri also needs something to control right now in her life. By being silent she is in control.
The question we all ask here is did she do something with Kyron? LE seems to think so, Why? Why did the judge also believe the MFH plot and give sole custody to Kaine? Did Terri Fail the lie detector tests because of her personality disorder? Le says Terri is not a POI yet they hand out a flier with her pic on it as well as her friend Dede's, WHY??  Which one of these questions is it?
1. Is Le Grasping at straws?
2. Does Le know more and they are trying to break Terri?
I am sorry Kyron that you like many others are out there somewhere and someone knows where, yet they are either too sick or selfish to say where. I wish there was a cure for the bad in this world.
Have a good day all. ::HelloKitty::

Thank you.

A very nice summary of things. It was great to hear from James, and other people.

:D

Thanks Puzzler!  Very interesting article.

My goodness...so James was sent away by Terri after all.  How convenient that Kaine was on a business trip when she chose to do this and although he didn't want James sent away, I guess the decision was already made by the time Kaine was informed.   
I hope James will get his wish to see Kaine soon.

This reminds me of the discussion we had, awhile back, about the woman who thought Terri had been the substitute who made her son wear his coat after it had fallen in the toilet.  She went to the superintendent and asked that the substitute be fired and the teacher be given extra special ed. training.  The substitute was fired.  We never found out for sure if that sub was Terri, but the mother believed it was. 

PORTLAND -- For weeks, a parade of witnesses came and went from the Multnomah County Courthouse.

Kyron Horman's parents testified before a grand jury along with others surrounding the seven year old's disappearance.

Since then, there's been little news from this secret panel.

In addition, a judge's order restricting any photography of witnesses coming and going from the grand jury room has expired.

So does this mean the Grand jury is done? Probably not, said former Multnomah County prosecutor Jim McIntyre.

He said grand jury term can be extended for weeks, months or even years. Jurors are essentially on stand-by as the investigation moves forward.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Grand-jury-still-hearing-Kyron-Horman-case-101124089.html

Itaryl Moosee - I left you this reply on Jason's thread, page 17, and then he posted and confirmed 2 1/2 months:

This is what I've gotten out of everything so far:

Met her in class
She invited him to go with her to her company's Christmas function
In March he lost respect for her
From March to August he only talked to her 5 or 6 times

IMO dating was from Christmas to March (approx. 2 - 2 1/2 months)

Hi Puzzler!  He said they dated for 10 months, but more intensely for the last 2 - 2 1/2 months.

Good morning to you too newfie!
When you say Terri seems to switch from idealizing people to devaluing them I think you're right on!

Interesting too that she would complain to Kaine about her appearance and he repeatedly reassured her that he cares about who she is, not her appearance...until he finally got tired of reassuring her.  She must have a constant need for attention and approval. 

Poor Kyron.  Sweet boy, where are you?  ::MonkeyAngel::

james may be on to something, he used the word hysterical, james reads avidly
so he may really understand the meaning of the word hysterical, and he knows his
mother well, odd choice of word for a 16yr old

newfie i think this is closer for the idea of a personality disorder
Histrionic personality disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

Hysteria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria

a lot of food for thought thanks for the posting
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

IMO - March to August -  5 months - you see/talk to each other approx. 1x a month AFTER he already lost respect for her after the beginning of the year and then lost more respect for her in March really doesn't add up to "dating" from March on.  Like I said: IMO.

IMO...I'm a little leery to go too far one way or the other with parts of this article, because I didn't get a comfort level about these intereviews, with "quotes", if those were the writer's thoughts/interrputations about what the person being interviewed said or whether the person actually said those direct words.  I know I'm being a little nit-picky, but I've not been impressed with the press with respect to writing about Kyron's case.

Thank-you very interesting article.

Okies, yah I had seen it. Thanks.

To me... 2 1/2 months... not enough time to judge a person and claim to know her so well.

I was married for 9 years, lived through extreme goods and bads, had three kids.

But, I can't say that I know my ex 100%.

I couldn't say if my ex is capable of murder, or of abusing a child, or what.

I mean, there are things that people keep so hidden from others, and with the stories coming out in newspapers all over the world, one never knows who is sleeping next to them at night.

Not that I want to freak people up.

But... we just can't say we know people 100%... specially if we only know them for 2 months. Or, 2 1/2 months.

At least he's sharing with others. Maybe out of the fear (as someone said above) of being thought of involved in the case?

IMO

Maybe he came forth because he didn't want to get caught up in this and it hurt his business.  Seems like it wouldn't take much to put him out of business in this economy.

I always take news articles and broadcasts with a grain of salt. My favorite over the years has been newscasters who state after someone has answered their question, "what you really mean to say is ...."

Nit-pick all you want. It's the right thing to do.

I could not agree more with you. That was a very good article, not sure what to think exactly, Terri has some good qualities and some not so good, like everybody. That obsession with Kyron and the colored stars, seems extreme, but maybe she didn't want him to fail and to be a good student. But then at the same time, James wasn't doing well in school. I need to read it again, just skimmed the first time, she certainly is a woman who wants to be in control.  I will say that picture of her and her husband when James was little, she looked very pretty in that picture. James sure seems like a well rounded and good kid.

I thought I would bring this over here to assist those who are still interested in the family ties of Jason Name Redacted/Name Redacted2.  This was posted at Blink as they are now researching him also and his ties to the Elder Name Redacted2.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/26/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-grand-jury-meets-indictment-imminent/comment-page-56/#comment-1614319

#
Dee says:
August 19, 2010 at 10:51 pm

http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/citizenreview/CRBNetworkNews0706final.pdf?ga=t

Above is the link to the Oregon Citizen Review Board Newsletter. On page 5, 2nd para. you will see Jason Name Redacted2. This is how he has been known to the CRP for the many years that he has been with them. Beejay, considering that intensive screening form you showed that they make their volunteers fill out and the criminal background check, it’s doubtful that they would have gotten his name wrong. It appears that Jason Name Redacted and Jason Name Redacted2 are, in fact, one and the same.
 
 

Thank-you Lazydog1, I am not sure exactly how I feel about Jason, can't pinpoint it.  One thing from reading that article and that James talks to his mother on the phone a lot. I have tried to place myself and think what would I feel and do if my mother could be responsible for what has happened to my step brother. One side of me would do what he is doing and talking to her, and then the other side of me, I don't think I would want anything to do with her. This poor kid is in a terrible situation with all this  ::MonkeyNoNo::

But...but...but...Jason told us his name had always been Name Redacted.   ::MonkeyTongue::

I could not agree more with you. That was a very good article, not sure what to think exactly, Terri has some good qualities and some not so good, like everybody. That obsession with Kyron and the colored stars, seems extreme, but maybe she didn't want him to fail and to be a good student. But then at the same time, James wasn't doing well in school. I need to read it again, just skimmed the first time, she certainly is a woman who wants to be in control.  I will say that picture of her and her husband when James was little, she looked very pretty in that picture. James sure seems like a well rounded and good kid.
[/quote]

Kids blossom in certain environments and wither and die in others.

Me thinks the Horman/Moulton home wasn't such a good environment for James, maybe not for Kyron, either.

And... we read what Kaine said when asked how Kiara is doing. He said that she is a  "new child"... or something like that. Meaning that she is thriving.

I don't want to trash Terri, but me thinks that by being a perfectionist she was not being a dotting "mom."

I'll get off my high horse now.

:D

Kids blossom in certain environments and wither and die in others.

Me thinks the Horman/Moulton home wasn't such a good environment for James, maybe not for Kyron, either.

And... we read what Kaine said when asked how Kiara is doing. He said that she is a  "new child"... or something like that. Meaning that she is thriving.

I don't want to trash Terri, but me thinks that by being a perfectionist she was not being a dotting "mom."

I'll get off my high horse now.

:D


[/quote]Unfortunately their are parents that are perfectionists pushing kids to do this and that, like the parent is living their life through the child, and forcing them to do what they perhaps wanted to do as a child. I don't know what to say, because unfortunately I feel that I might have been guilty myself of trying to have things perfect, and it is impossible for that to happen  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Unfortunately their are parents that are perfectionists pushing kids to do this and that, like the parent is living their life through the child, and forcing them to do what they perhaps wanted to do as a child. I don't know what to say, because unfortunately I feel that I might have been guilty myself of trying to have things perfect, and it is impossible for that to happen  ::MonkeyNoNo::
[/quote]

The article was interesting and I got from it highlights of good qualities, bad qualities and even quirky qualities...you know...like most of us.  A few times I felt very pointed negatives.  They may well be true.  They also may be a little jaded due to concerns that Terri is directly involved in Kyron's going missing.  I don't know which is true.

Living in a home with an angry parent must have been very upsetting for all these children.
Especially when they can't possibly understand why this person is so angry. 

Yes one would be walking on egg shells.  I grew up in a home such as this and you just don't know when you wake up in the morning if it will be a good day or a terrible day.

From everything I have read so far I am glad Kaine made such a quick move and removed that sweet little girl from this situation.  I do believe she is much happier in her new environment. Now if she could just have that sweet loving brother of hers back home.  She will need to have contact with her big brother also.

Oh what a sad world we live in today.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

TH has a lot of problems, no doubt. Frequently people have multiple diagnoses (OK I do  diagnose people). Only a thorough exam by a qualified person could say what she "had," not that everyone always agrees on these things either. This involves giving people extensive questionnaires with subscales to test for deception, trying to impress, etc. as well as interviewing people around this person and getting their medical and mental health records. So I am not necessarily disputing that she would get the above diagnosis, but there are other things going on as well. One has to look at the substance abuse also which is there. This also causes a lot of "mood swinging" as people are on, then off their substances or mixing them. Some of these are legal even or at least not illegal yet and some make people absolutely "wacko".
I do think substances are involved here and probably more than just ingesting them.
I hope I am doing the posting OK, someone correct me if not.

Here's a little tidbit...zillow.com and DeDe's condo that's on the market....open the link and see a picture of the front of her condo...lower right corner, click on the two red squares to make the picture larger...then there a six pictures (inside and outside) to look at.  She really does have a large set of knives to cut all those vegetables (see picture of kitchen and look on wall above stove).

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7161-SW-Sagert-St-APT-103-Tualatin-OR-97062/52695545_zpid/#hdp-photo-lightbox

I just want to say.

Please cover your ears because I am going to yell this at the top of my lungs.

THANK GOD IT'S FRIDAY!   ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyJnBox::

By the way I am a huge fan of pot belly  ::piggy::  ::piggy::

Great article thank you for posting this Puzzler.

Substance abuse...that's been a sneaky little thought running around in my head.

Thanks Puzzler!  Interesting.  Am glad for the info from and about others in the family too. 

Thank-you, she has a nice place.

After reading this article I'm more convinced than ever that Terri did something with Kyron.  I think even her family believes that.  I so hope that Terri has Kyron stashed away someplace and he's being taken care of.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

After reading the OL article I am wondering about Kaine's business trip to CA they referenced.  I remember (near the beginning of this disappearance) giving some thought to a possiblity that the CA trip planned for this summer indicated a possible move and that Terri may NOT have been okay w/ relocation.
IMO
P
btw, Good Morning, Monkeys.

When did the name Name Redacted2 become Name Redacted?  Is Robin M. de Alicante and Robin Holmes that same person?  Who is she?

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Jason Name Redacted2

JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT
Citizen Review Board

AUGUST 15, 2002

Robin M. de Alicante
123 NE 3rd Ave, Suite 280
Portland, OR
97232

To Whom it May Concern:

I am writing with respect to Jason Name Redacted2 and the volunteer service he has provided through the auspices of the State of Oregon Judicial Department. For the past four years Jason has served as a member of the Citizen Review Board. In this capacity he has reviewed the cases of children placed in the care of the State due to neglect, abuse and other issues.

Jason has always been well prepared for review days, he has shown insight and
understanding as to the process involved, and he has always acted in a professional capacity. He has additionally been able to communicate effectively with individuals from various socio-economic and ethnic backgrounds in a positive and constructive manner. The Citizen Review Board is very demanding with respect to the maintaining of confidentiality, adherence to timelines, and maintaining annual education credits. Jason has always recognized the importance of such and has been faithful in applying those policies and laws that affect his position.

It is my sincere belief that Jason would be a very good and trustworthy employee. While having the ability to express his opinion and assert his position on very difficult issues, he is also readily acceptable of other views and re-direction when necessary. He obviously has a fine work ethic combined with a good focus for the issues at hand. If you have additional questions or require more assistance please do not hesitate to contact me at my office.

Telephone number:  xxx-xxx-xxxx
Respectfully,
Robin M. de Alicante
Citizen Review Board Coordinator

http://www.embassyenterprises.net/citizenreview.pdf


CRB Network News

Guest Spotlight - The Oregon PTA
Written by Kelly Merrick, CRB Volunteer Resource Coordinator

As part of our ongoing efforts to reach Oregon’s communities to educate and broaden their understanding of the Citizen Review Board program, we exhibited for the first time at the statewide Oregon PTA conference on April 20-22, 2006.

Jason Name Redacted2 and Robin Holmes, CRB members from Multnomah County, volunteered their time to help provide information and discussed shared concerns with approximately 250 Oregon PTA members from around the state. This year’s conference focused on the health and welfare of Oregon’s children, with workshops ranging from childhood obesity to special education and TAG classes. CRB staff and volunteers passed out numerous application packets and subsequently met with PTA leaders to discuss collaborative efforts in outreach and education. I’d like to sincerely thank Jason and Robin for their dedication and hard work at the conference. Having them present to talk with other potential volunteers brought a unique and extremely valuable perspective which couldn’t have been better. Additional thanks go to Joan Hibbs, CRB Clackamas County, and Jerry Isom and the Willamette Writers Group for their donation of books passed out to PTA parents, teachers, and students.

http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/citizenreview/CRBNetworkNews0706final.pdf?ga=t

Good morning Tolerance!

I think Terri was not o. k. with a lot of things. 
I can't understand why she was so focused on Kyron's daily color cards.
Did she want to use this to complain to Kaine about him...have Kaine on his case too?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Because if Kyron were to "misbehave" in school it would reflect bad on her???

I'm sure he was punished when he didn't get his greens.

Thank-you Blonde.   
"I think she's really lonely," James said. "She's not supposed to leave the house."           Is there a reason why she is not suppose to leave the house?

Yes...from the article, a few lines up from the bottom:  "She's rarely been seen in public under orders from defense attorney Stephen Houze."

 

I'm sorry, I missed that, see it now, thank-you.  A lot to read in that article.

Attorney's advice........

I agree with you Klaas.  I know it was stated she had PPD, but am wondering if she is bipolar and not taking meds for it.  I pray Kyron is stashed somewhere and being looked after.

I want to welcome all the new monkeys    ::MonkeySlide::  WELCOME    ::MonkeySlide:: 

Clay cat

It appears that in Winter, 2009 the relationship was thriving but ... began a downward spiral in January, 2010.

The following quotes are exerpts from Jason's letter which was submitted to the Oregonian this week.

Janet

++++++

Jason Name Redacted

DeDe Spicher's former boyfriend describes Terri Moulton Horman's friend as a 'high-energy, dynamic' person who changed dramatically
Published: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 4:30 PM
Updated: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 2:36 PM

1.  I met DeDe Spicher in late September of 2008 at the Rock Creek Campus of PCC in chemistry 100 lecture and lab class taught by Dr. Harry Davis.

2.  I spend many hours with her, and with other students outside of class in independent study groups.

3.  In the winter of 2008, we became so close, that we had discussed marriage.

4.  DeDe got laid-off from work sometime in January of 2009.  When she got laid-off and went on unemployment, her personality did a 180 degree turn and she did not take any more classes, completely stopped working out and riding her bike and diet went out the window. This sudden and dramatic turn of events in her life was a turn-off for me and I lost respect for her.

5.  The event that threw a cold, wet blanket on our relationship was that sometime in the early spring of last year she came to me with some drawings for 4 planter boxes ....

6.  I suspect that sometime after we broke-up on August 1st, 2009 ....

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/jasonw.pdf

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/dede_spichers_former_boyfriend.html

Thank-you, probably a very good idea.

I have to say that again reading that article, there isn't anyone that said she wasn't good with kids or her kids  ::MonkeyNoNo:: So what all happened along the way.....

Why?  Seameathebeach?

Why would the Attorney keep CSI-SM from a stroll around the block? 
Will SM blab something?  ::MonkeyTongue::  TIA

Just a guess, for her own safety, maybe.

Hi NoRose & Monkey's,

Ted Bundy was a good son. 

Good thinking, TY! 

And good looking as well, but there were signs, troubling signs with Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer growing up. I just don't see no comparison to Terri.

After reading the Oregonian article, I think of the differences between my parenting and my ex's. I am definitely the disciplinarian, and I feel TV does more harm than good for children so I take that away completely first and I like to stay on top of any behavioral issues at school as well. My ex will allow hours on end on the TV for it to babysit the children and I know enough from my studies that this is damaging to children. An individual with their Master's in Education would also know this. I attribute many attention problems with video and television over-usage. I also keep on top of things at school as I have seen a few things get out of control prior to my being notified, such as others bullying my child. This makes me, in my opinon, a good mom. If she disliked the child, she would not care so much. My ex would probably tell people I am too strict, angry, a bitch etc etc as well, but I have some of the best behaved and well adjusted children. Even my step children have applauded my ways, knowing it all came from love that I pushed everyone for their own personal best. That's me and how I operate. I am still very close with my ex's children, speaking to and visiting with them weekly even after all of my strict ways and divorcing their father and they are teenagers and a 20 yr old. They owe nothing to me, I am dad's ex, that's all.
My reasons for pointing this out is how easily others such as my ex could villafy me. By the way, I get angry some times too. I even verbally discipline others children when they are at my home. Oh goodness, call child services.... a mom is correcting inappropriate behavior. Oh, and I took away TV for a whole school term for getting C's and not paying attention in class. Guess what? No more C's on the next report card..................Oh, and after the birth of my infant, I too got abrupt with my step-children, but I also cried hysterically at the TV news whenever it was sad. We all experience post partum hormonal fluctuation, some to different degrees.
I am not saying Terri was not involved. I am saying to ascertain such from this article would be to also ascertain that I would be capable of such and I most certainly am not. Did I mention I too am a gym rat?

Unfortunately their are parents that are perfectionists pushing kids to do this and that, like the parent is living their life through the child, and forcing them to do what they perhaps wanted to do as a child. I don't know what to say, because unfortunately I feel that I might have been guilty myself of trying to have things perfect, and it is impossible for that to happen  ::MonkeyNoNo::
[/quote]




You are so compassionate to others. 

Peace, very good post  ::MonkeyCool::  seahorse thank-you, but I reflect back a lot to raising my daughters, and frankly I would be afraid to see it in print. Yes, I yelled, lost my temper, had trouble at times raising them. I don't feel real good at some of the things that I wish that was done differently. That is why there is a lot of confusion for me with Terri and reading this article. Just don't know what to think anymore.

I agree.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

+++++


Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman's stepmother is a profile in contradictions
Published: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 10:30 PM
Updated: Friday, August 20, 2010, 8:42 AM

<snipped>

James, who is staying with his father, Ron Tarver, in Roseburg, said his mother treated Kyron like her own son.

"The only difference between her relationship with Kyron and me was the difference in ages," he said.

Terri was the first to recognize that Kyron needed glasses, James said, and taught him sign language by the time he was 6 months so she could communicate with him.

"She was pretty proud of that," Ron Tarver said.

<snipped>

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

That's a good possibility too! 

NoRose,

We don't know if there were signs for SM?  My aunt adopted two children, one was a rotten egg, the other child turned out good. I really believe it is in the genetic, I really, really, do.   Someone will look up SM natural parents, I don't think it is that
difficult, eventhough it was a closed adoption. I can almost find them, because, her Bio-Mums, surname, "Kisiel" is so rare.
I can't do Genealogy right now because I have obligations, I am sure an investigative report could locate both parents.

I just don't know Janet, yes she appears to have control and obsessive compulsive behavior, that sure jumps out at a person. It seems like everything went downhill after the birth of Kiara.

If TH changed so much for the worse why did KH allow her to have control of the children?  I'll even bet he was super critical of her demanding that things be done right and done before he gets home.  I still wonder what was the catalyst for the change in her appearance/weight gain/mood.  Could it all be PPD.  Was the fear of being pregnant and KH repeating history and finding another woman what sent her over the edge before the birth and after adding the PPD?  I never thought steroid use was going on but I did know she would have to use fat burners to get that lean and we all know how the ephedra that was used in those at that time did folks.  Now I'm wondering did she medicate herself with Rx meds from a doc?  Downers and pain killers can cause you to blow up too.  All MOO!

Hi Monkeys!

Wow, that article was spot on about my suspicions of Terri's personality!  Talk about a narcissistic!  Having hubby#2 adopt James= $$$$$.  Doesn't respect boundaries, people's property, or their feelings.  Just because people say she is good with kids DOES NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY.  What was Terri like when people were not looking?  Remember, friends said Casey Anthony was a good mother.  I do feel Terri was frustrated in her marriage to Kaine.  And I also feel the person she took her frustration out on was Kyron.

And even when a couple has several of their own children, two can turn out good, and the third one is the rotten egg, though they were all raised the same, I just don't know. It sure sounds like since Terri was the only child she was spoiled, well so was I the only child, and I think that my parents spoiled me also.

Misty Croslin was good with Kids, too. 

My question, how out of control was Terri with the kids, was it normal frustration that parents have, or was it excessive?

Also, I get the feeling that Terri told people "embellished" stories to make herself sound wonderful.  Teaching Kyron sign language at 6 months?  Uh Kyron did not live with her until he was close to two years old!  And who did she tell this story to?  Her ex-husband who obviously wasn't around.

Yup.  You can make yourself look pretty damn good when people are looking.

You turned out to be a good egg!  You are thoughtful and generous toward others, I tend to be harsh. 

 ::rhino::

 ::HelloKitty::  this is a long article and this woman was never convicted of murder, although it is quite certain that she murdered a few people.

She has access to WAAAAY more money than Terri.  She was put in prison again at age 74.  Please notice the personality characterisitcs that are Terri.

 She's one of Minnesota's most notorious figures and at age 71, Marjorie Congdon Caldwell Hagen is starting her life all over again.

   

   
Edit- HelloKitty, this is an interesting article, but when you bring an article to Scared Monkeys (even something snipped), we need the link posted with the article please.  MuffyBee

Marjorie gained notoriety after being accused of killing her mother, heiress Elizabeth Congdon and a nurse at her family's Duluth mansion in 1977.

The heiress to a mining fortune was acquitted in that case ? but a life of legal scrapes and misfortune continued for Marjorie.
In Wednesday's Extra, Reporter Bernie Grace told the long story of Marjorie's legal scrapes ? and looked at her plans now. The following is based on his report.

After being locked up for twelve years Marjorie Caldwell Hagen finally shed her prison clothes in January, leaving the women's prison outside of Phoenix, Arizona.

It was a fire in Ajo, Arizona that landed Marjorie behind bars in 1992. In the early Nineties there was a string of more than thirty suspicious fires around Ajo, a town of roughly 3,700 people that lies 167 miles west of Tucson.

One fire happened at a business where her RV was being repaired.


"Marge Hagen's coach exploded. Windows blew out," recalls Bud Klinefelter who owned the recreational vehicle sales and repair shop

Investigators would later determine Marjorie set the blaze. Motive? Prosecutors say she wanted money and lied when she made an insurance claim on the fire-gutted RV.

Marjorie grew up in big money on the shore of Lake Superior at Glensheen mansion. She the adopted daughter of Elizabeth Congdon, the heir to an Iron Range mining fortune. It was a life few could imagine.

"They didn't shop normally like you and I might, things were brought in big boxes with satin ribbons," recalls former Caldwell Attorney David Arnold. "When she was first allowed to walk to school the limousine followed her with body guards in it."

Despite an inheritance that left her a millionaire, there never seemed to be enough money.

Marjorie became a household name in Minnesota in 1977 when her adoptive mother and night nurse, Velma Pietila, were murdered at the mansion on June 27. Elizabeth Congdon was found smothered with a satin pillow. Pietila was beaten with a candlestick ? and apparently had tried to protect her charge.

Marjorie's second husband, Roger Caldwell, was convicted, but the prosecutor was convinced Marjorie was the brains behind the killings. (Read Caldwell's courtroom confession.)


"(The plan) was to spend Marjorie's inheritance," says John DeSanto, the St. Louis County Prosecutor who brought both Marjorie and Roger to trial. "They were deeply in debt at the time. They had overspent their means, which (was something) she had done for years."

It was Minnesota's trial of the century, and Marjorie's behavior was anything but typical in a courtroom. While many defendants may curse prosecutors, Marjorie always wanted to chat with DeSanto. One day, she baked a birthday cake for her lawyer Ron Meshbesher and wanted everyone in the courtroom to eat her cake.

"I said 'No way am I having anything that's baked by Marjorie.' And she said outright 'John there's no marmalade in it.' That was kind of chilling in itself," DeSanto says.

Chilling because a couple of years before the murders, Elizabeth Congdon became severely ill following a visit from Marjorie. Elizabeth's nurses suspected that marmalade sandwiches Marjorie fed her mother were laced with poison. Her mother did recover, and fearing bad publicity, the family didn't report the incident to authorities.

The possibility of a poisoning attempt did not come to light until after the murders.

Following a four-month trial Marjorie was found not guilty of all charges. Some of the jurors befriended her for some years to come.

"It was disconcerting to see actual jurors come out of the jury box after the not guilty verdicts and actually hug her," DeSanto says.


Prosecutor DeSanto has co-authored a book called Will to Murder with Gary Waller, one of the Duluth detectives who investigated the case.

During Marjorie's murder trial, a couple she had known for years ? Wally and Helen Hagen ? were in court daily to support her. After the trial, with Marjorie's husband Roger locked up, she began seeing Wally. Wally's wife Helen ended up in a Mound, Minnesota nursing home.

"My mom had Alzheimer's. She was bedridden, that's why she was in the nursing home," the couple's son Tom Hagen says.

While described as being in good physical condition, Helen suddenly slipped into a coma hours after a surprise visit from Marjorie. Helen died four days later.

It would later be learned that Marjorie brought food to the nursing home in baby jars and fed Helen during that visit. But, since no one knew about the marmalade incident toxicology tests were never done. The official cause of Helen's death was listed as pneumonia brought on by dehydration.

Just four months later Wally and Marjorie married in North Dakota, although Marjorie hadn't been divorced from Roger. She was charged with bigamy.

At the time, Marjorie was about to inherit more than $3 million, some of her children sued so money was tight again.

Within a year the Hagen's Mound, Minnesota home burned.

After collecting insurance money, she was arrested for arson and fraud and was convicted. She went off to the Shakopee Women's Prison for two years. There she was well liked, even sent flowers weekly to the warden.


"She could charm the socks off a snake I guess," David Arnold says.

But while she came off to many as sweet and caring, others saw another side.

"She just goes off," Tom Hagen says. "And when she goes off she's totally out of control. I mean it's like a maniac. You cannot imagine this kind of rage."

From the mid-Eighties on Tom Hagen and his siblings were isolated from their father Wally. They say Marjorie manipulated him into marriage and then into moving to Arizona.

They landed in Ajo, a town with history for the Congdon family. Marjorie's grand father Chester Congdon, began mining copper here in the early 1900's. Marge, as she was known to most in Ajo, became involved in several churches and clubs. She left a good impression on many.

"She's a good friend of mine," says Ajo resident Pat Moreno.

But businessman Bud Klinefelter has a different opinion and says Marge bounced tens of thousands of dollars in checks all across this desert town.

"When I met Marge the hair on the back of my neck stood up," Klinefelter says.


In 1990 the fire department was busy with a string of blazes in Ajo. The last of the suspicious fires occurred not at Marjorie's, but next door. The occupant came home and saw Marge in the back yard. Kerosene-soaked rags were found on the windowsill.

The man called police, who slipped into the home and waited with flash cameras. Then came Marge.

Marge was arrested and convicted. But before serving her time, a judge gave Marjorie 24 hours to get her affairs in order. She returned home and the next day she called Tom Hagen in Minneapolis to say his father Wally had died.

At first, Marjorie was charged with Wally's murder, but the charge was later dropped. The two wrote a suicide pact so investigators couldn't discount the theory that Wally himself had taken overdose of drugs that claimed his life.

Marjorie says at the last minute she backed out of killing herself.

So now twelve years later her begins over again. When she left prison her personal effects could be carried in just a couple of boxes. But she was believed to have nearly $1.5 million in inheritance from the Congdon fortune waiting for her.

While she may have money again, she apparently has few friends or relatives ready to help. It was a hired limo driver who met her outside the prison gates.

Two years ago she told parole board members she planned to move into an adult gated community on the outskirts of Tucson. Her attorney claimed she had a lot and was putting a home here. The lot is still vacant and it appears she's settling elsewhere in Tucson.

She likely chose Tucson, because it is where she had fond memories as a child... Schooling here in winter months, enjoying Sabino Canyon, where she waded in the brooks and hiked the hilly terrain.

Marjorie refused to talk to KARE 11 for this report.


So Tucson, a place retirees come to winter, is the same place Marjorie Caldwell Hagen has come to start a new life. And while at 71 years old she's well into her retirement years ? a grown child of her last husband says she could be 91 and be an evil woman. And he expects it's only a matter of time before Marge and the law meet again.

Roger Caldwell committed suicide in 1988. Many believe he took the 'real' story of the Glensheen mansion murders to his grave.

The Duluth mansion has been open to the public for years ? but the murders have been a forbidden topic on tours. Just this week, a committee looking for ways to raise restoration money for the University-of-Minnesota owned estate said it is considering a plan to allow tour guides to talk about the murders.
(Copyright 2004 by KARE. All Rights Reserved.)

Good point.  I think Terri told different people different things about herself and I can't begin to understand why she would do that..other then to make herself look wonderful.

She does seem overly interested in money..even her inlaws money...is that why she married Ecker to get Mom and Dad's money?

O!M!G! That woman is an utter biyatch! ::MonkeyShocked:: It broke my heart to see how she treated Kyron. And insisting Kaine discipline him for school days that he didn't do excellent. I hope to hell Kaine didn't go along with it. If he did... ::MonkeyMad::

Loving mother my foot! So was KC perceived as a loving mother. These creeps love what their kids can bring to them--financial security, a weapon to use and manipulate, and to manipulate others with...

And the rest... What a horror she is. Her ex-dad-in-law, Chuck Ecker, had her pegged. There are no words bad enough to describe Terri Moulton-Tarver-Ecker-Horman!

 ::MonkeyShocked::  Talk about similar personalities!

Even "charming" her second husband into paying for a child that isn't even his, having the payments up, then calling the police on him when he politely asks for those payments to be lowered.  I wonder if the child support payments paid for her "breast enhacments?"

Hmmnn, spending the inheritance money? Many times along the way I told my ex NO to purchasing toys for himself telling him he was spending the children's college money. Sometimes, men are so concerned about their toys. Mine was very impulsive about such things. I can see it being translated into inheritance vs. college education money by my ex too.
Did Terri have any fancy new toys she spent all Kaine's money on? Well, a nice car and that new tractor. Bet she thinks the tractor's sexy? Sorry, bad country song humor.

For as much as Terri loves children, she sure doesn't seem to mind that she has lost her own.

It appears that way, but how do we know how she is feeling? I'm sure her attorney is telling her what to do, and one of the main things is to keep quiet. It certainly appears that Terri did something to Kyron, no doubt she probably did.

All for show, like KC. Part and parcel of the image they choose to project.

Sending James away and not fighting to see her daughter.

And he also looked nice in pictures. A saying I invented ( ::MonkeyWink::) --Nice is as Nice does.

I'm not sticking up for Terri, actually I think there is a lot going on in that family, but according to James he talks to her a lot. Now with the baby, I'm guessing the lawyer is telling her to lay low and not cause trouble, because that is basically what a good defense lawyer does.

He did, and his good looks and charm he certainly used for very evil intent.

That's true.  I see what you mean.

But she hasn't been charged with anything.  If it were me I would be moving mountains to see my child and at least fight for supervised visits.  But then that would require her to answer some questions related to Kyron.  Hmmmm......

I totally agree! She is an accomplished liar IMO. And what a rat she was to the poor man she played for he was worth--Ecker. And he still doesn't realize what manner of creature he was dealing with.

OH?? So you weren't the PERFECT PARENT?  I think the hospital should hand out an "Anti-Guilt" card at the door with the birth of each child.  ANYONE that claims that someone was always smiling, always patient and a perfect parent is LYING.

My belief is that it's not healthy nor realistic to always be smiling at your children.  Children can be naughty.  I have three kids and the oldest one has absolutely run me right through the ringer with his constant high strung, 'push button' behavior.

I'm with you...I don't know what to think anymore.

That's true she would have to answer questions, that is why, imo, her lawyer is telling her not to fight this.

Whatever Terri did to Kyron, she sure wasn't thinking about the long-term ramifications of her actions. ::MonkeyNoNo::

Heh! txlisa, I keep echoing your posts. LOL! Thanks goodness I'm all caught up now. That article raised my blood pressure.

Blonde, you might want one of the mods to edit your post.  Oregon Live is the one who complained, because we had posted a complete article from their site.  I don't want SM to get in trouble.   ::HelloKitty::

I noticed down thread Seahorse is saying something similar to what I'm about to.  I too am an only child with an only child and my rents did me no favors by spoiling me rotten.  I was a good kid but sometimes didn't know my boundaries either.  Because I was alone a lot I didn't realize the importance of peoples things to them.  I quickly understood what I had done asap when explained to me and had same reaction as TMH, to feel real bad and cry and I would fix or undo what I had done.  I was very self centered too but if I liked you or was "courting" a friendship I would shower you with things and attention just as my fam did me.  But when I was done, I was done.  You don't even realize how you mess with peoples feelings.  The worst was what wold come out of my mouth...total lack of regard for feelings!  I finally had an undiagnosed breakdown at 16.  I brought myself out of it and now I'm so gullible and kind I get used constantly!  I don't mind though cause when you open your heart and mind to giving unselfishly it comes back to you in ways you can't understand.  It just feels good to be able to help, to give, to be needed.  Oh, I stated before that my rents sent me away to an Aunt to live with so all the attention came from weekends occ. w/them and credit cards and an endless supply of cash......at ages 8 to 16.  Not love, comfort and understanding just things.  So, I understand that part about TH but if this continued through all her marriages and to Kyron WHY on God's green earth did he allow it??????  I still say he was a hands off Dad.  It was even said KH was strict in the article.  I can't imagine being in that family home now either.  Were all the pics sincere or because that is what we were supposed to see.  All the trips taken could have been for the parents enjoyment as much as the kids.  I must say after this article on TH and being able to relate to her mentally (ALL MOO!) I can now see how/why she might have snapped and done something with Ky.  I just jumped over the fence, I think!  TH did something to Kyron and please God just let it be him taken underground just to spite KH and not our worst fears! 

As much as it raised mine, it also confirmed my suspicions and sealed the deal for me that she did something to Kryon.

 ::CowWave::  I come in peace...(gingerly stepping into the pond),

I just finished reading that whole article and then came on here and I must say it's truly fascinating to have read something and then read the different points of view on the same article.

What some report reading is not how I comprehended it at all.  Who's right?  I think everyone is.

When I read that article I see some truth but mostly I see a slant from ex-people in her life.  The interview with Eker's parents?  Come on...the mother states that Terri 'wanted our son'.  Sounds like some old farmhouse, golden child, bible thumping going on there.  Like, "Ohhhh that evil red headed woman come to da house to steeeel our Jimmy away!!!! She's eveeeel I say, !!"

The part about how Terri 'pushed' their son into adopting James nearly made me ill.  This man KNEW she had a child, THEY knew she had a child.  This was known going into the marriage and if the biological father couldn't support the child and this new family they made together was working I can sure see how the idea would be to adopt the boy, form a new family unit and move on from there.  But to me, to read it from the elder Ekerts you might think their sonny boy was just some hapless DUPE who was sucked in by this red headed siren with a CHILD, (gasp) from a previous relationship...How DARE she wear a WHITE wedding dress?


In the end here I don't think we all will ever agree and I don't know that we should.  I do know that I SINCERELY HOPE with all my might that NOTHING in my life ever happens so that people come to interview all my former 'friends' and neighbors and ex husbands!!  Good grief like that's not a biased view point from the get go.

Melisb  ::MonkeyAngel::       I was hoping also that Kyron was put somewhere safe, but it just doesn't add up in my head  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I don't know I think Eckert's parents had her pegged from the get go.

I hope also that nothing in my life ever happens, because I frankly wouldn't want to hear all the things  ::MonkeyEek:: There is biased viewpoints for sure in that article  ::MonkeyNoNo::  It is always interesting with articles like this, what everyone takes away from it, and what people feel, and what sticks out the most for some people.

Eckert's parents either had Terri pegged, or no woman would have been good enough for their son. Many parents have conflicts with who their child marries. I know that I have kept quiet so not to rock the boat with one of my daughter's choices, don't want to say anything because I dearly don't want to lose her. So it could be looked at both ways.

Consider if you will, the SOURCE of this information about the discipline is Kaine Horman.

Melisb,

Thank-you, I enjoyed your post.  I was spoiled silly, until I was 4 1/2.  I am still the same person: strong-willed and
determined. A person's personality is set at 4 years old!  Melisb you are understanding and compassionate, too.  :flower:

Why would he lie?  I have a hard time seeing Terri as this poor put upon "victim" of Kaine Horman.  So the man has faults, so does Terri and PLENTY OF THEM!  Terri is the one who couldn't have given a rats a** that her stepson was missing, no in fact she was complaining to Desiree about her hair do. 

seahorse, I think a lot of kids are somewhat spoiled, and then you have some that are horribly spoiled or horribly neglected. Maybe when Kiara came along all the attention went to her, which of course more attention would go to a baby, but how much attention was given to James and Kyron? Wonder if they felt a little neglected, which I'm sure would be normal.

This is as true as the ages of time passing.  How many times I have heard stories at 25,30 and even 50 year anniversary parties telling of how "Well my dad didn't like him much."  We probably all have our own stories to tell in that regard.  Sometimes the transference of emotions is so strong that the spouse to be is placed in a no-win situation. 

Perhaps TH could sense the rejection and ended up going over board with her lavish affections in some sorry attempt to win them over.  They in turn, already not liking her viewed her every action with suspicion.  Looks like the song that never ends.

His mother was conned I think. But bottom line, they were right to question her motives. The woman is manipulator and her actions later showed that she probably did push Ecker into adopting James--mo' money, mo' money, mo' money! I wouldn't surprise me to learn she was also getting unofficial financial support for James from Tarver. In reading that article, I don't see how it's possible to gloss over all the negative and just see the positive in Terri. No matter how positive the press, wouldn't the negative stuff thrown in here and there be like hitting a brick wall and make one question the validity of the positive stuff? I don't think a vice-versa situation has the same impact.

I think their opinions of Terri were quite justified after her temper tantrum about spending "James' inheritance."

I just can't get over how hard people will try to put a positive spin on this woman!  At worst, Terri disappeared Kyron.  At the very least, she is a self centered narcissistic who does not take account the feelings of others.

I know the feeling, but instead of kissing up, I did my best to ignore  ::MonkeyHaHa:: Every action is observed and you feel like an outsider  ::MonkeyNoNo:: Curious if the Eckert's has only the one child?

She has a love of sadism: the deliberate infliction of pain (mental, emotional or physical) by one person on another for the pleasure of the abuser.

Perhaps we can locate "before and after" SM photos to detect "Implants"  ::MonkeyHaHa::  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Kaine Horman has his own agenda just like everyone does.  I have an agenda so do you, so did my dear sweet departed grandmother.  I don't know why KH would lie.  I don't know IF KH is lying.  I do know that a person can tell the truth and ADD to it, change the truth, STRETCH the truth to fit what their particular agenda may be.

I do find it interesting that some people are so quick to dismiss KH's faults and focus on Terri's.  This investigation could have taken an entirely different flavor with a different media spin.

In the end, I don't care about any of it I just want to see Kyron found.  One way or another and there doesn't seem to be much effort spent on behalf of the media to offer up any good ideas on how to LOOK for him.

A good friend of mine made an excellent point the other day, he said; "You can't find something if you aren't LOOKING for it."

Excellent advise I think.

But hindsight is 20/20 and in hindsight, Terri did some peculiar stuff to Eckert concerning child support and calling the Sheriff's Office on him after pretending to be all understanding when he questioned the child support increase. And he's still paying support, but James is living with Tarver, his bio dad! That is so unfair.

txlisa just playing Devil's Advocate, nothing more or nothing less. Everybody sees things differently, and again, I really have little doubt that Terri is responsible, to what degree I don't know. Just like to know the whys and hows of things.

I'm a terrible speller by the way...

Kaine's agenda is to get his son back. Terri's agenda is anything but that.

Not only unfair doesn't make sense to me, but he did adopt James, don't really know the legal workings on how this all goes.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I fully agree, Justamama. 

I wonder if Mr. Eckert is still making the child support payments to Terri?  I would hope at the very least the payments are going to Mr. Tarver.

Did she have dreams of knocking-off husband number 2?   ::MonkeyEek::

Oh I agree!  The first time I read that whole scenario I went.. ::MonkeyQuestion::  And from looking at the photos and reading what I have about the man, to me it sounds like this Ekert was just one sweet honey of a man and TH maybe should have hung on to him.  I look at that photo of the three of them, the one done in sepia with James in the middle and he's leaning on Ekert, that kid LOOKS happy, not just posing for the photo smiling but he actually looks happy.  Takes a good man to marry a woman and adopt the child.  Takes an even BETTER man to continue to make child support payments after they are divorced.

The only confusing part about that is for what a nice man he appears to be WHY didn't he continue to see James after that divorce?  No joint custody?  No visitations?  I don't understand this. 

There is another victim in this chaos and it's that poor James.  Imagine if you will to have his own biological father sign away his rights, the new man adopts him but when the divorce comes there is no further contact, then he goes to be with KH and Terri and THAT falls apart.  I think it's just a SAD, SAD thing the whole deal.

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

Obviously each person has a different take on this according to their life experiences. Regardless, we can argue for days on end about our differences, or get back to looking at others. JMO, but I can't see how this is getting us anywhere but into ethical differences among us. There is no right answer.
I have not gone back many pages, but did anyone find anything else on Rudy?

The KATU article ... for the most part ... is an overview of Jason Name Redacted's letter to the Oregonian.  However ... the impression is that that an interview took place.

Today's profile of Terri Horman in the Oregonian ... is nothing but a compilation of quotes that has been out there since the getgo.
 
The local media knows nothing!!

I wish that reporters were beating a path to the door of the Multnomah County Sheriff's Department ... demanding an update on the direction of the investigation into the disappearance Kyron.  I know reporters agreed to be Kaine Horman's team players but ... I wish they hadn't.

Other than one small release on the Multnomah County Sheriff's Department website ... LE has silently stood by and allowed Terri Horman and DeDe Spicher to be the focus of serious accusations by Desiree and Kain as well as media unnamed "credible sources" while not declaring either one of them as a person of interest in the case.

Last night I thought long and hard about the reporting of this case and ... have come to the conclusion that Terri Horman and DeDe Spicher have been tried and convicted in the public arena ... me included ... through the accusations of Kaine and Desiree and unnamed "credible sources".

Something is terribly wrong and ... I am sooo troubled.
 
Janet
______



The search for Kyron: What DeDe Spicher's ex has to say
Story Published: Aug 19, 2010 at 3:20 PM PDT
Story Updated: Aug 19, 2010 at 6:11 PM PDT

http://www.katu.com/news/local/101101779.html


Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman's stepmother is a profile in contradictions
Published: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 10:30 PM
Updated: Friday, August 20, 2010, 8:42 AM

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

+++++++++


Investigators put pressure on Terri Moulton Horman's friends, including DeDe Spicher
Published: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 7:50 PM
Updated: Friday, July 23, 2010, 11:52 AM

Letter from Kyron's parents, stepfather

"We have been briefed by law enforcement on the most recent developments in Kyron’s case.  We have been informed that they have identified a person that has been in close communication with Terri Moulton Horman since Kyron went missing and her name is DeDe Spicher.  She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son.  Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well.  We implore DeDe Spicer (sic) to come forward and cooperate with the investigators in any way that they need in order to assist us in finding our son.  We will state further that if we find out through the investigation that she caused a delay in us finding our son due to her lack of cooperation, we will pursue civil remedies in this matter.

"We as a family cannot understand how anyone can look at Kyron’s smiling face, having information and choose not to help bring him home.  Please remember what this is about, it’s about bringing a wonderful little boy back to his family.

"Desiree, Tony, and Kaine"

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html


Kaine Horman asks judge to make Terri Moulton Horman move out of his house
Published: Thursday, July 08, 2010, 12:06 PM
Updated: Thursday, July 08, 2010, 6:43 PM

Multnomah County judge today unsealed the petition for the restraining order which Kaine Horman obtained on June 28, two days after investigators informed him that his wife had offered to pay a landscaper to kill him months before his son's disappearance.

"I believe respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010. I also recently learned that respondent attempted to hire someone to murder me,'' Kaine Horman wrote in his petition. "The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true."  

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/judge_releases_restraining_ord.html


MULTNOMAH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS NO COMMENTS REGARDING THE JULY 8, 2010 YOUNG/HORMAN PRESS CONFERENCES
Posted: July 8th, 2010 6:48 PM

There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported during the Horman/Young July 8, 2010 press conferences.   The information released during these conferences did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.  This is an ongoing investigation.

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm

I used to work in the Family Support division of the DA's office, and every now and then saw situations like this. I had no respect for those women that saw these men as just meal tickets. Ecker needs to go back to court and try again. But I think he's just too decent to do that to James. He needs to realize that James already has 2 other fathers, and the only one he has no contact with shouldn't be the one to pay. He may not win though. It's a crapshoot, depending on the state.

Legally I don't know, but it sure would make sense to give the payments to James' dad.

Sure would like to know more about Rudy.

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Would the payments now be going to James' father and step mother since they are the ones raising him.

Well I must be a bad mama too because this type of system was used in one of my sons 3rd grade class as well. I would ask if their color had changed that day and if so then there would be a consequence at home as well. No desert or their toy would go on time out. Now as they are in 5th and 6th grade they are model students who do not get into trouble.
To me this sounds like Terri was holding Kyron accountable for his actions. 

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

June 18, 2010 4:51 PM
Kyron Horman Update: Cops Ask Public for Information about Stepmother, Believed to Have Last Seen Boy

ADD A COMMENT

by tmittelstaed June 19, 2010 12:38 AM EDT

The only thing we know (and I live in OR so have read quite a lot about this case) is that the family immediately went into seclusion the first week of Kyron's disappearance, and -everyone- (and I mean everyone) remotely conected to the family has been absolutely close-lipped with regards to the families situation. There has been nothing in the way of family members or relatives talking to reporters and doing anything other than echoing the party line. Kyron's family has information about it's internal workings locked down so tight that it would put the CIA to shame, and they have managed the press to say what they want better than a lot of professional companies who manage politicians press interfaces have done.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008192-504083.html

Guess I am a witch as well.

::MonkeyAngel:: And the posters that are familiar with your posts, we know you are a good mama. And you were doing what was right. They didn't have no system like this when my kids were young, must be something relatively new?

Janet, just don't know what to think about that.

::MonkeyNoNo:: NO

Only if they went to court and requested it. But that would be ballsy and unethical IMO since Tarver IS the bio dad. But Terri still getting it is BEYOND ballsy and unethical.

I sort of took it as Terri was upset that Kyron had gone missing and the use of the word hysterical was used to say how upset she was.

No Rose, you were probably spoiled, but not spoiled rotten. ::MonkeyDevil::

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

But in the article it said it was after the birth of the baby, sounds like Terri needed help.

Sorry, I have to disagree with the discipline thing.  I think what Terri wanted Kaine to do was excessive and not necessary.

Why? James biodad has not been financially responsible for most of James life. I don't think he should expect someone to pay him at this stage. The money should go to an educational fund  but just wishful thinking on my part.

On the adoption/child support of James topic:
I have wondered if Mr. E found out he was James' bio dad.
Just a thought w/ nothing to support it.
P

I found something else in the article interesting..Terri has or had been collecting unemployment for two years.

DDS was also on unemployment.

They seem to have many things in common.  Could it be that in Feb to March of 2009 they became closer friends?  Since they were not working they would have had more time to get together during the day during the week..pursue commoon interests.

I'm saying this because Kaine didn't seem to know much about DDS, neither did JW seem to know Kaine and Terri.  Yet they have to be very good friends for DDS to stay with Terri after Kaine left and for Terri's parents to ask her to stay with their daughter.  You just wouldn't ask an acquaintance to do that..particularly under theses circumstances.

I still feel that DDS is involved in this somehow..as well as both Sanchez relatives.

 ::MonkeyShocked::  ::MonkeyEek:: Interesting. Makes me go hmmmm.

EXACTLY!!

I was a Terri with my two eldest.  My expections were high.  I knew both had the ability to meet those expections.  My eldest son ... who lacked motivation ... tells me he is thankful today.  If he had not been "forced" to do his best ... he would have fallen so far behind that high school graduation would have been an ellusive dream.

I am grateful that ... akin to his older sister ... surprise package younger son was self-motivated because by that time he came along when his siblings were 14 and 17 respectively ... his father and I were too tuckered out to push.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

You will love this quote from Blink regarding Dede:

I do not usually say this, but in the interest of disclosure I feel I must.

Dede absolutely creeps me out. I mean, everything about her. No malice intended, and I cannot put my finger on it.
B

She says Dede reminds of Kathy Bates character from Misery.

I surely do hope James is not a 'voracious reader' of the internet.
My heart aches for Kyron and all the children touched by this sad story.
(Including the students at Skyline)

::MonkeyHaHa:: I wasn't spoiled rotten, and did have to pay for my consequences if I did something wrong. Was spoiled by parents and two sets of grandparents, but not just with personal items, a lot of love also.  Which makes me wonder how exactly Terri was raised, we really don't know a lot about her parents.

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

I can understand wanting to be unbiased in an assessment of all of the parties involved, but I agree with Tx and Scatty. It seems that there are those who insist on trying to make TH appear to be a saint while vilifying anyone who reports information that refutes this saintly image. It wasn't only ex-husbands and in-laws that reported some disturbing TH behaviors that fall outside the norm, some were reported by those peripheral to the investigation who seem to have no reason to distort the truth. Also, those closest to the investigation shared both positive and negative behaviors that were noticed over time (including Kaine). It's hardly unbiased to cherry pick information and only attend to that which supports your own opinion. I am also growing weary of an attempt to paint Kaine as the devil incarnate and that anything negative that Terri did was most likely because of Kaine. While obviously not perfect, Kaine is not the one who caused this tragedy. To imply that he could have prevented it if he were only more aware or involved in his home life seems overly punitive IMO and is not supported by the entire body of information presented by sources thus far.

That said, the only thing I know for certain is that a beautiful child did not get what he deserved. Where is Kyron???

I see that Kaine and Desiree both very much want their son back  ::MonkeyAngel::

I don't either. And when it came to being less than perfect herself, she made excuses or played the blame game.

Yep, holding a kid responsible does not make a mom a bad person so I agree with you. Now if Terri was hitting Kyron or locking him into a cupboard, then that shows signs of abuse, but holding him accountable is not a sign of abuse. imo

Exactly!  I don't know why the hostility towards Kaine, but there were those on the 'net **cough**42ndState**cough** spreading rumors about him without any facts to back it up.

::MonkeyEek:: and that certainly isn't a compliment. Have to say that one picture of DeDe on her blog, you can just see insanity in her eyes.

I shudder to think what she did to that poor child when no one else was around! ::MonkeyNoNo::

I agree Nrcg.

txlisa

Where are the "facts" to back up your accusations against Terri and DeDe.

The handling of this case by LE in regards to PR has allowed "feelings" regarding the major players to rule.

Janet

In reading, then rereading the latest article.. it seems to me that no matter how one felt before the article came out, the info in this article serves only to strengthen the viewpoint we each already had.  If we are looking for something in particular, chances are we're gonna find it, or view it from our particular stance. 

Example.. the color coded cards.  These are used as a classroom behavorial modification approach, by many teachers, and can be used in many different ways.  Just google it for further reading on the endless approaches.  The cards can be used as a positive reward system, or with a negative consequence approach.  It depends entirely on the teacher/parent/student using them.   The cards can be meant to be positive by the teacher, viewed by one parent as positive, the other as negative, and hated/loved by the student.  It's ALL in the way those cards are used.  What the article does NOT tell us is why those color cards were used, how they were used, how effective they were, and the views of each adult:  teacher/Kaine/Terri, and Kyron himself.  Did the whole class use them or were they focused on just one or more students?  And etc. 

IMO, (and I have experience with those cards, one son on the program, two off.. all three with ADD/ADHD).  Using them for positive rewards works best (rewarding good behaviors)..... while using them for negative consequences (punishing negative behaviors) can defeat the purpose and end up breaking the spirit of the child. ... That's MY experience, my opinion.  Everyone has their own. 

Overall... I think the article was informative.  And I also think it was in keeping with what the media has done all along in this case so far.... spoonfed with a slanted bias.  Which most folks are eating up, according to their already preconceived viewpoints so far. 

All IMO. 

The facts as presented when put together!  The landscaper, MFH plot, deceptive answers on polygraph, the throw away phones, and the timeline for June 4th.  And no, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are not in collusion with the MCSO to railroad Terri Horman and Dede Spicher.

I am trying to be objective. I think there is still a possibility that Terri is a completely horrible person but didn't do anything to Kyron.

no rose

I am not doubting that but ... on the other hand ... there is something terrible wrong when these two are the ONLY source of information on this case other than unnamed "credible sources".

Janet

 ::rhino:: ::rhino:: ::rhino::

And that said I think we have to remember that James was removed from the home while Kaine was away in California. 

Kaine did not want James sent away..Terri did that. Rather sneaky sending your son away when your current spouse disapproves while he is away on a business tr rip don't you think?

Kaine did not see a reason to hound Kyron with daily reports from the school vs weekly reports like other families received..he states Terri was the only parent asking for daily reports.

And that brings me to the next bit of info that we have where Kaine and Desiree have each said previously that they were recently talking with Kyron about obeying what any adult told him to do in school. Seems to me like Terri was using this attentiveness to adults in a school situation (remember they said he understood stranger danger but wouldn't in a school situation)  to set up things for the morning of the science fair and the kidnapping.

Just something else that makes me go hmmm.

They have not held a press conference in weeks!  They were asked for their opinions on Terri and gave them!  What purpose does it serve them to lie?

Sorry took me a bit to catch up. My 6th grade teacher had something like this. I remember one time, (all it took was one time), my card was turned to red, OMG I thought my mom and dads heads would explode!

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!  I have read comments about where are Kaine and Desiree and why aren't they talking.  Could it be because people are accusing them of trying to railroad Terri and control information about this case?  Damned if they do, damned if they don't!

Well I think it is fair to say that Kaines opinions right now are a little slanted. He is upset with Terri and blaming her for his son having gone missing. I am not saying he has this right or not, 

I remember getting little gold stars when we did well and that was it  ::MonkeyHaHa:: But find it very interesting this system.  Wyks with the info you just gave with this card system, is it just for kids with learning problems, or the entire class?  I remember getting in trouble with bad grades in math.

Well I disagree with you completely. She was parenting Kyron.

I figured that the police probably told them not to talk right now.

lol thats funny.

And who could blame him for being upset with Terri.  I mean she only tried a hire a landscaper to kill her husband.  I am just not seeing this big conspiracy to railroad Terri.  At the beginning of the Caylee Anthony case there were quite a few people who thought that Casey was being railroaded.  We all saw how that turned out.  The focus is on Terri because she was deceptive with LE from the get-go.

That's cool. 

I don't think anyone here is making her out to be a saint, but perhaps not wanting to hang her for everything that comes out against her.

NoRose,

 Suzy is talking Pittsburghese.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=anselmo&Middle=&LastName=sanchez-sanchez&Race=U&Sex=M&Age=28&x=61&y=15

per the link above Anselmo is still at the Federal facility in Sheridan..for an unspecified length of time.  He has not been transferred from there.

Tracygirl's post   
I don't think anyone here is making her out to be a saint, but perhaps not wanting to hang her for everything that comes out against her.
That is what I'm doing.

Not knowing the situation in which TH was adopted out of we can only guess her adoptive parents did what was normal for a child of 7...they loved her lots and spoiled her is all I can imagine.  But as usual we don't know anything.   It happens all the time and they are prolly really nice people who gave her everything she wanted.  Apparently they contine to do so.  Blink saying that the Horman's lifestyle choices have something to do with Kyron's disappearance makes me think harder now.  How do all these people get so close for so long yet the man you are married to knows absolutely squat about his wife???  Too damn weird for me.  Did they live together but completely seperate?  They obviously had sex...well for sure once in the last 2 years.  Did they agree to stay together for the children and their marriage was kaput?  There is something super weird about that relationship and did it have an effect on what happened to Ky?  That is the most important question.  The more we learn about the supposed playes in this the more it sends us back into the home asking questions.

Tracygirl

My suspicion gleaned from the words of Desiree Young, Kaine Horman, Ron Tarver and Richard Ecker as well as media unnamed "credible sources" is that Terri was a good and loving mother up until the birth of Kiara ... a good and loving mother who DID do something that resulted in the disappearance of Kyron.

Janet

+++++++

Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM

In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about 'how could he marry a woman like this' and how could he 'not see this coming.'

In response, he wrote: "Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did."

"Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now," added Kaine Horman.

"There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html


Kyron Horman's blended family: Friends describe a close, supportive group
Published: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 5:36 PM
Updated: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 6:46 PM

According to friends and family, the Hormans are a tight-knit, loving family that enjoys doing things together.

They play board games, go bowling with friends and take trips. In 2009, they visited Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla. Late last year they went to the Roloff Farm in Helvetia where the reality TV show "Little People, Big World" is filmed. And recently, they peered at the animals at the Oregon Zoo.

Terri volunteered at Skyline School, where Kyron was in second grade, and she took him to swimming lessons with James and with Kiara.

"They're very nice people," said Adam Farber, who runs a swimming school and taught Kyron to swim and worked on strokes with James. Farber had no idea until he went missing that Kyron was Terri's stepchild. "They all fit in really well." ....

Family and friends say she is a focused mom.

"She's a pretty attentive mom," said Tarver, her first husband.

Her second spouse, Richard Ecker, has kind words to say about her as well: "She was always a gifted teacher. She did as much for the school and the kids as she could."

He couldn't imagine his ex-wife doing anything to harm a child.

"She would never hurt a child," he said. "She's not wired that way."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: DDS "bug eyes" I find creepy.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Do you feel it is reasonable to expect perfect behavior in the classroom every day? There are 4 colors of cards. If my (or any other child) had perfect behavior every single day in the classroom, I would find that to be a little strange. We all want our children to be perfect, but if a child gets 29 greens and one card that is the step lower than a green, do we ground them for that (if so, then for how long)? My point is we all have varying parenting styles. There is usually more than one way to get from point A to point B; however, expecting perfection from a child can set up just as many issues as allowing chaos to rule IMO. I have no idea if Terri was too punitive or expected perfection from Kyron. If she wanted excessive consequences for any behavior that was one iota less than perfect, that could be an indicator of other issues. All I can reasonably discern from the article is that Kaine and Terri did not agree on the management of these cards nor on the potential consequences.

I was thinking about why they have not come out to talk and I remembered that Desiree was dreading August to come around without Kyron being found because she had plans for them to go on vacation. We have seen Kaine, but not desiree and I really do feel she is just in so much pain she can't put two words together. My prayers go out to her, everyday I pray that God will wrap his arms around her and protect her heart.

Tarver signed away his rights to his son and then Ecker who was married to Terri at the time adopted him. James then became Ecker's responsibility to financially support him until he is 18. I would think if James is going to continue living with his bio-dad that he (Tarver) should support him....but who knows maybe the adoptive father wants to continue supporting him.

I think they honestly believe Terri is responsible. If that is true or not that is another story, but from their hearts, they believe this.

To punish a child on a daily basis based on a color card can be detrimental to a childs self-esteem.  After a while the poor kid will question if they can ever do anything right. ::MonkeyNoNo:: 

Clear as a Bell.  You simplify everything in a few sentences.

I believe LE told them "to hold the phone"!

I agree with you.

Never said there is not a positive reward if good behavior is present. Just said holding a child or person responsible for bad behavior is not a sign of abuse.

Do you suppose that because Kyron wasn't doing as well as he should have been in school that Terri lost it? James was sent away, and wasn't doing well in school, and maybe Terri wanted better kids? Just throwing this out there.

She was in the process (step by step) of getting rid of Kyron one way or another.  The purpose of these steps would lead
to commit Kyron to an institutional facility for Autism.  I would bet my stuffed animals she had that up her sleeve. IMO.

Or no kids.

Just as it is in the real world, a child should be held accountable for their behavior, whether that behavior is good or bad. I do expect my children to pay attention in class, listen to the teacher, not act out, not talk, etc... They get the best grades they are capible of getting, and do not get into trouble. As their mother, it is my responsibilty to not be their friend, but to parent them and teach them the rules in life and what is right and what is wrong. Again, if Terri was hitting Kyron or locking him up for getting a yellow card that is one thing but I just can't agree she was being harsh for holding him responsible.

I dunno.  What do we really know about Kaine?  Only what HE wants us to know about.  While he drags out every dirty deed anyone can think of or twist about Terri, while he remains Mr. Clean.  It's not enough to convince me he does or doesn't have an agenda.  More info about him is needed.

It's like walking into a fistfight between two people in middle school.  Are we gonna believe the first and only thing that comes out of one of their mouths?  No!  We're gonna try to seperate the two fighters, each to their corners, get the FULL story, and try to figure it out from there. 

Would love to have such a lengthy article written about Kaine himself, his attitudes, his experiences in life, who he is as a man/husband/father/friend.  Complete with views from his family/friends/coworkers/neighbors.  Maybe with more info about Kaine as the man he actually is, we might be able to reach an honest unbiased conclusion about both he and Terri.  I might even <gasp> fully AGREE with Kaine regarding Terri. 

But what do we have right now?  ONLY what HE himself is allowing the world to know about him and about Terri.  And that's it in a nutshell.    IMO. 

I think what Kaine was trying to point out was that Terri was the only parent in that class who felt the need to ask for daily updates, instead of going with the teacher's habit of weekly updates.   You have to ask yourself why did Terri need a daily accounting when all the other parents were fine with the weekly accounting.  Plus he said if something serious behavior wise occurred the teacher called the parent that day.  I think Terri was overboard in her disciplining of Kyron and I think she did it not to help him, but to belittle him and make him dislike the school.  School was something Kyron loved..even riding the bus.

And funny her own bio son James was having problems in school and she certainly found a way to remedy that problem..send him away...yet tell everyone else it was because he and Kaine didn't get along.  And there we see another huge lie of Terri's to family and friends..about her son..how do you think that lie made James feel ..his own mother lying about her reasons for removing him from her home?   

Terri seems to use overboard responses to everyday problems.  Kaine and she not getting along..put out a hit on him.

Teenage son not doing well in school and arguing with her..remove him from the home.

Leaving first husband..lets tell everyone he was an addict and had AIDS. 

This woman is not using any kind of normal sense of reasoning in response to her problems..she just seems to eliminate the problem..and that is what bothers me in Kyron's disappearance.

Terri seems very zealous in her problem solving when she wants someone or something in life..and then also when she doesn't want them in her life the same zealousness in the opposite extreme occurs.

oh my...

I don't know but it seems she wanted him punished harsher than Kaine did.  She's the step-parent and Kaine should have had the final say in that matter.

I fully agree, Janet. 

I have got to comment on the mark system from the school and Terri's behavior toward this. My daughter gets the colored dot system and has since kindergarten. She has also been diagnosed ADD with anxiety and Pica disorders. (firm believer this all comes from living with her bio parents). During kindergarten she received several red marks, I kept asking her why, after the 3rd time I called the school to speak with the teacher, no call back. The following day she again received a red mark. Sammi said the same thing "I don't know" Well I went to the room to talk to the teacher. The teacher was very belligerent and asked if I had not talked to Sammi. After pulling the info from her, she had told Sammi to take the pencil out of her mouth, after that every day that she saw Sammi with the pencil in her mouth she gave her a red mark, said that she knew she was not suppose to have the pencil in her mouth she should not have to remind her every day. After I saw the pencils, she was not putting the pencil in her mouth, she was eating them from the erasers down and had eaten 4 pencils. I asked the teacher if she had any idea of what Pica was. At this time I requested that a note accompany any mark other than a green mark. Had to fight with the whole school system over this. During any of Sammi's re-evaluations for ADD and other disorders I have to have very close communications with the teachers. If Terri thought that Kyron was having issues I feel she was doing right by staying up with it on a daily basis.
               During 2nd grade Sammi got into the habit of picking her nose and eating it. I found out about this because she was crying after school one day because none of the other kids would have anything to do with her. I went to the school the next morning and found out that this had been going on for weeks. She did not do it at home because she did not feel the anxiety that she felt at school. But because after several weeks the teacher did not see fit to tell the parent Sammi was shunned by her school mates.

One other thing I wanted to hit on, in the story about Terri I wonder if the whole pregnancy was a bad emotional deal. Kaine said in the article that the pregnancy was a shock to him as he thought they were NOT going to have children.

Not defending what she may have done to Kyron on June 4th. Only defending her right to question the teacher on the behavioral issues.

I couldn't have said it better.  I have also been saying this since the first time I saw Terri in that original press conference;  She's not someone I would want to hang around, she's not the personality type I usually am drawn to in a friend BUT even at that I want to see the evidence, NOT the bitter innuendo from a former mate.

Having written that though, I will say that in that article I did notice a theme...I was going to go back and count how many times the word CONTROL was used in describing Terri.  I found that interesting.

I have read HUNDREDS of posts about how Kaine is controlling BUT in that article I would say I have to believe what this wide variety of people are saying...when that large of an assortment of people offer their accounting freely and again and again nearly all of them say basically, "She was VERY much in CONTROL" then to me that means something.

Someone who is in control doesn't change, (Usually, moo).  When people who demand control like that are OUT of control they do in fact become OUT of control.  She may have met her match in Kaine, two strong willed people living in the same household and she just couldn't stand it.

That said, if she's responsible for this then this was very, very well planned out.  A former co-worker of hers said she had her lesson plans laid out for days in advance.

The Science fair wasn't a fluke, it wasn't a surprise it was PLANNED.  She would have known that it would be chaotic.

In control.

Hmmmmm....

Damn!  No wonder the kid was shy and timid!  He probably had to walk on eggshells around her!

I do not think for one minute that Kaine and Desiree have lied regarding what they have stated in their exclusive interviews.  They have revealed their interpretation of what is going on behind the scenes in the investigation.  However ... I do believe there are underlying dynamics that took place leading up to the disappearance of Kyron that are being concealed.

txlisa ... your speculations regarding those unknown dynamics are all about casting a negative light on Terri.  Considering you were not the proverbial fly on the Horman was ..  did it ever occur to you that Kaine may have been the negative link in the chain of events that led to the happenings of June 4, 2010.

That being said ... if Terri is behind the disappearance of her stepson ... she must be held accountable.  There is no justification for making a personal choice to disappear a little boy.

Janet

++++++

MULTNOMAH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS NO COMMENTS REGARDING THE JULY 8, 2010 YOUNG/HORMAN PRESS CONFERENCES
Posted: July 8th, 2010 6:48 PM

There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported during the Horman/Young July 8, 2010 press conferences.   The information released during these conferences did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.  This is an ongoing investigation.

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm


Little Boy Lost
Report airs Monday, July 26, 10 p.m./9 C on Dateline NBC
by Kate Snow
NBC News
updated 7/26/2010 6:51:10 PM ET
 
TRANSCRIPT

DESIREE YOUNG: Unfortunately, Kaine was not faithful to me and met another woman.

KATE SNOW: That was Terri?

DESIREE YOUNG: Mm-hmm.

KATE SNOW: So all of the sudden you know that there's another woman. You're eight months pregnant.

DESIREE YOUNG: Yeah.

KATE SNOW: Must have been a low point in your life.

DESIREE YOUNG: Yeah. It was pretty hard to handle. I cried solid for two months and didn't leave the bedroom because I didn't understand why she somehow equated to something that was better than me and my son.

Kaine, however, insists that he and Desiree had broken up before he stated seeing Terri, agreeing to live separate lives under the same roof just until their baby came along.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38420266

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Tracygirl, my theory may sound a bit imaginative, but look at SM, she is cunning.  She had plans for the child. IMO

SELF EDIT - MY LAST POST

are not being concealed s/b are being concealed

::MonkeyAngel:: oh my, Pica is a terrible thing, we had a family member with this. May I please ask, is this card system used with all children, or with children with learning problems? The reason I ask is, did Kyron have learning problems?

After reading about this color coding system I have some serious doubts about my own parenting ability.  WOW, I'm LAZY.

I think that expecting perfect behavior out of a second grader every single day of the week is completely unrealistic.

Maybe I shouldn't be so laid back.  BREAD AND WATER TONIGHT!  :smt024

 SM at the news conference :roll:

[/quote] ::MonkeyAngel:: oh my, Pica is a terrible thing, we had a family member with this. May I please ask, is this card system used with all children, or with children with learning problems? The reason I ask is, did Kyron have learning problems?
[/quote]

In our school it is an every child thing. Sammi does not have any "learning" problems, only the behavioral problems. The anxiety issue causes her to not do well on time test though. Thank God she is almost out of the Pica. She had what the dr.s called a mild case. But she has eaten everything from change to stuffing out of pillows! Still has some issues with it, but have found that chewing gum helps a lot.

I wish that I would have been more strict, grade school was all fine, high school that was a whole other issue  ::MonkeyEek::  I also think it is normal in a household where one parent is stricter then the other and have different ideas on parenting and discipline.

"Our" no rose ... the voice of reason.

Janet

::MonkeyAngel:: oh my, Pica is a terrible thing, we had a family member with this. May I please ask, is this card system used with all children, or with children with learning problems? The reason I ask is, did Kyron have learning problems?
[/quote]

In our school it is an every child thing. Sammi does not have any "learning" problems, only the behavioral problems. The anxiety issue causes her to not do well on time test though. Thank God she is almost out of the Pica. She had what the dr.s called a mild case. But she has eaten everything from change to stuffing out of pillows! Still has some issues with it, but have found that chewing gum helps a lot.
[/quote]Thank goodness  ::MonkeyAngel:: Thank-you, so it is used with all kids. Like I said before this was not used when my kids were small. Sounds like a good idea but with everything has its flaws.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and a step back and consider things.

I know for myself I can read something and consider a middle stance, some people cannot do that and respond out of emotion. Funny because I think that is what Terri does, such as what Gypsy was saying. She has an overboard response to situations and circumstances from what we can gather from news reports and quotes anyway.

Truth be told, I don't care if it is Terri, Dede or a big purple bunny with green spots that took Kyron, I want him to be found and the person who did this to be arrested and held accountable for their bad behavior. hmm there I go again with that holding people accountable. I suppose that is how the world works? I wonder if Terri was ever held accountable for her bad behavior or bad choices? or CA was she or did her parents just jump in and protect her? I sort of think Terri was being strick because she saw her own flaws and didn't want that for her own children. I think in her own crazy, screwed up way, she did care about Kyron, as James said she treated him like her own child.

I'm trying, though wish I could be the voice of reason with other issues.

Justamama it really isn't as bad as it sounds. The teachers do not require perfect behavior. To me it seems more like the counting thing I did with my older kids when they were growing up. If I got to 3 they new they were getting punished. Red here is for a very bad day, kinda like the kid completely ignored the teacher SEVERAL times. That is why I could not understand about Sammi getting a red, she is growing up with 2 old people and very respectful.

It can be used either way, Rosie.  Some teachers don't want to single a child out using this card system, because for some kids, that would perhaps give the wrong kind of attention.  Those teachers might use the card program with the whole class, and with a positive reward approach.  It kind of works similiar to what you said about the gold stars (same as what was used back in my day too).  In fact, a parent can use gold stars, or something similiar, at home with a child who kept/earned back a green card for the day. 

There are so many great ways to use these color cards, both at school and at home.  All to help a child in whatever his/her goals are. 

I am a witch too Tracy! I have seen the results of the children that have been raised by enabling parents and it is not pretty. It is easy to be permissive with your children but very hard to teach them right from wrong. It is a lot of work to raise your children to be honest, hard working, law-abiding citizens and in this day and time, I don't see too many parents who want to put out the effort. Having said this, I do not believe in physical punishment. I think if you bully a child, you will end up with a child who is a bully.

::MonkeyAngel:: oh my, Pica is a terrible thing, we had a family member with this. May I please ask, is this card system used with all children, or with children with learning problems? The reason I ask is, did Kyron have learning problems?
[/quote]

In our school it is an every child thing. Sammi does not have any "learning" problems, only the behavioral problems. The anxiety issue causes her to not do well on time test though. Thank God she is almost out of the Pica. She had what the dr.s called a mild case. But she has eaten everything from change to stuffing out of pillows! Still has some issues with it, but have found that chewing gum helps a lot.
[/quote]

I ACHE when I read this about your daughter.  I suffer from PTSD, Panic disorder and agoraphobia.  (Wait for my Lifetime for Women movie to come out about my life ahahahaha) and I know first hand the pain and suffering someone goes through when they have these anxiety disorders.  It seems to just depend on how it manifests itself.

WHAT is causing this much anxiety in her life and how can you help her?

Maybe she and Tony are on vacation.

That is what I'm wondering, because Kyron wasn't doing the best in school, if she lost it? Hard to imagine that, but who knows? James did say she treated him like her own child. One thing that really surprised me, James saying that Kaine and Terri rarely fought. I don't recall the exact words, but found it interesting, I'm sure they fought like all couples but did it to where the kids didn't hear it.

Then, by their son "adopting" James, is the reason he's paying child support...and not because she "charmed" him.  It was a responsibility because James is his son.  Okay.

Well they just don't institutionalize children with autism now a days. It just took me by surprise thats all.   

Thank-you, I suppose a teacher would want to use it with all the kids, it certainly would look bad if only being used with certain kids. Very interesting.

 ::monkeywine2:: this is going to be me with my lunch today.

Hey I STILL count!  I swear even the dogs know when I'm getting to "3"!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

When I first read about this system I thought it was actually a pretty good idea.  I wouldn't want to be a teacher for anything.  But that's for another thread.

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

Then why didn't Kaine advocate on behalf of his son ... his son's emotional well-being.

I give Kaine and Desiree credit ... if they believed Kyron's emotion well-being was at risk under the care of Terri ... they would have reacted accordingly.  Anything less would imply parental neglect.  No passes.

Janet

++++++

Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM

In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about 'how could he marry a woman like this' and how could he 'not see this coming.'

In response, he wrote: "Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did."

"Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now," added Kaine Horman.

"There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html

In our school it is an every child thing. Sammi does not have any "learning" problems, only the behavioral problems. The anxiety issue causes her to not do well on time test though. Thank God she is almost out of the Pica. She had what the dr.s called a mild case. But she has eaten everything from change to stuffing out of pillows! Still has some issues with it, but have found that chewing gum helps a lot.
[/quote]


The first 3 years of her life Sammi lived in a home that was horrendous in every sense of the word. Not food to eat, usually bread or chips, not bath time usually filth and  grime, no cuddle time usually left in the car seat until she got too big for it time. I could go on and on and on but.... She is getting much much better. We have had her for almost 7 years. Her anxiety issues are pretty good now also. Certain things trigger them. Especially if she gets to thinking about things in the past.

Can't wait to see the movie! ::MonkeyJnBox::
I ACHE when I read this about your daughter.  I suffer from PTSD, Panic disorder and agoraphobia.  (Wait for my Lifetime for Women movie to come out about my life ahahahaha) and I know first hand the pain and suffering someone goes through when they have these anxiety disorders.  It seems to just depend on how it manifests itself.

WHAT is causing this much anxiety in her life and how can you help her?
[/quote]

 ::MonkeyBike::

Later, Janet
12:10 PM PT

Two things;

1).  Anyone else read anywhere with any credibility that Desiree is on a houseboat somewhere?

2).  Anyone believe that when fall comes and school goes back into session there is a teeny tiny chance that someone will discover Kyron's body in a place no one thought to look?

I haven't read that about Desiree but I do think that if Kyron is found it will be a totally by accident thing unfortunately.

What I understand from the article, Kaine disagreed with Terri about the punishment meted out Kyron regarding the color cards.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

I totally agree with you Wyks, as usual! By the way, you owe me an email! ::MonkeyTongue::

YES!!!!!  And then there's this aspect......... The teacher and their reasoning for whatever treatment of the student.  It's not ALL about the student misbehaving, it really *could* involve the teacher's expectations of "good behavior", etc. 

Back in the day (and I know, things they have a'changed)... I was receiving bad mark after bad mark.  Finally, parents went in and talked with teacher.  I was left-handed.  "Was" being the operative word.  Back in a day when being left-handed must have just been viewed as evil.  My bad marks for the day had nothing to do with 'bad behavior' on my part, and everyyyyyyyything to do with the fact that I couldn't/wouldn't pick up that pencil with my right hand.  Sigh.

The "whole" story really needs to be found out, no matter who is telling what, in ANY situation.  IMO. 

Tracygirl,

She said (supposedly) that Kyron was "shaking and staring in outer space"  ::MonkeyHaHa::  She wanted a Doctor to check him, for what?

What would SM intentions would have been?  He was shaking because of her, most likely, and staring in outer space?  All kids
stare in outer space or Daydream.

What was she up to? 

I thought that I read somewhere that Desiree and family rented a houseboat for August, but have no idea if they went.  Yes, I certainly did think that come school time little Kyron would be found in a place no one thought to look.

Justamama  ::HelloKitty::

I was never sent to my room, I was made to clean for punishment.  I think it was a good idea, it kept me busy and I accomplished
something at the same time.  Parents should give a dust cloth to children to keep them busy.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

seahorse I think everyone daydreams, but maybe Kyron wasn't daydreaming and had other issues, just don't know.

Heh.  Good idea!

Well I suppose we will see how this all turns out in about 10 years. Everyone has a different approach. I am a bit old fashion in my parenting style. My children are praised for positive behavior and help accountable for negative behavior. I do not hit, never have raised a hand to my children, they just get the look and they know what that means.

Lol Seahorse! We tried that once. We sent the kids out to pull weeds when they were in trouble and they just sat there arguing while not doing much of anything. That punishment did not last, lol. I have always read that if you put a child in timeout it should be relative to their age. For example, if you child is 5, a 5 minute time out is appropriate. When the kids got older, taking the computer and or phone away was the best punishment.

txlisa

I am referring to "facts" regarding your implications encompassing the Kyron and Terri's relationship.

Janet

++++

I can see this whole generation of children with their children. "do you want a red mark young man?"

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

With my dogs, I carry pieces of kibble in my left pocket.  They know it's there, no matter what we are doing.  Always to my left, they follow me.  To the kitchen, to the bathroom, outside to move the sprinkler.  Noses to my left pocket.  And when they have been good, and sometimes for no reason at all, 'unexpected', I give them each a kibble.  Did they get anything special?  Nope.  They did however, get rewarded for good behavior, and just for being the precious beings they are.  They like it, they expect it, and they strive to do what it takes to get a kibble. 

Humans are no different.  Altho a smile, word of praise, 'atta boy/girl', hug, or 'job well done', might work better than kibble. 

This is an excellent idea and one I intend to implement in this household.  Now, the BIGGER question is, as an adult how clean and tidy are you?  Do you clean when you are mad and upset?  This is interesting.

Well according to james she was the one that found he needed glasses so perhaps she was just wanting to find out why he was staring or spacing out. Maybe he did have issues? We don't really know.

I too might be slightly suspicious of someone who tried to have me killed. Stranger abduction, or the psycho from home. Tough decision--not.

lol...if only all classroom would do something like Kyrons teacher had. If you have been into a classroom lately it is entirely different then when we were in school. There is actual chatter and a constant buzzing of children talking.

The crying about not wanting to leave Desiree.  Staying in his room until being told he could leave.  The comments Terri made on Facebook about Kyron.  Those little things added up send up red flags for me. 

Absolutely Wyks!

This is a great system when used in a school or home setting in a postive manner.  The thing is to reward the positive behavior.  Usually that is why a teacher would use this as a weekly review with the parent..not daily.  You want to look at a block of time..not one day out of the block.  You want to see that there has been improvement and reward that..not punish the days it wasn't there.  A child might go from one week with 3 greens and two yellows..to the next week 4 greens and 1 yellow...etc.  If a parent were to make too much todo about one off day..and children do have off days just the rest of us...then this would defeat the purpose of looking at the big picture.  And it appears somehow Terri herself may have slept through the behavior mode class in college. 

WHERE IS KYRON?

I have always thought that if I could really LOVE someone else in the unconditional, loyal, totally giving way my dogs love me then I would truly have finally become a 'good' person.

But I'm not that good.  I'm more self-centered than my dogs.  Bless their hearts.

Scatty why do you attact my post? Is it because I am in the middle? Nothing upsets more people then someone on middle ground. It is only logical to think he would be slanted so then what he says be taken with that into consideration. Whether or not that is warrented has nothing to do with it and that is what I said

Respectfully Tamikosmom, this is what you asked and I answered for you:

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Our school isn't like that. Last year I had to wait 20 minutes after dismissal for Sammi, when they came out finally I found out it was because some in the class would not quit talking. Wow were the bus drivers mad.

Sammi gets a daily planner every year and that is where her "colors" are put so as not to embarrass each individual.

I never could figure out parents that punished their kids for getting B's. Yeah, yeah, I know the "you can do better" spiel, but like Kaine said, Kyron was just in 2nd grade. When I was in 2nd grade, my teacher thought I was "slow", but I just naturally perked up in 3rd grade and by 4th grade was the utterly brilliant ( ::MonkeyWink::) person I am today.

I like this scene from Uncle Buck.  I so loved John Candy!  His movies always made me laugh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cUNA_0AOb8

I never had "time out"! I was so scared of disobeying.  I was told "I will break your legs"  ::MonkeyHaHa::
Never would I want to find out!  Yes, I pulled weeds, too!  ::rhino::  Today, Kids, intimidate parents and grandparents,
instead of the other way around.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

That's fine, but that's not what TH was doing. There were several color codes ranging from green to whatever. If Kyron got anything but a green, she wanted him disciplined. Every kid has bad days and non productive days. The color coding was probably to be used as a general measurement, not a daily measurement like Terri insisted on. That's just plain weird.

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  ::MonkeyEek:: I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

txlisa ... you redflags may have merit but ... on the other hand ... maybe not.

1.  Most children consider visitation with the non-costodial parent as a mini-vacation .  Hey ... up until Kyron's age ... following an overnighter at Mama and Papa's  ... my grandkids cried when they heard Mom and Dad's vehicle coming up the driveway.  Those four kids (7-12) still are aware where the bar of expectation is lowered.

2.  My girlfriend's 5 year old grandson ... plays quietly with his toys and reads in his room each morning until one of his parents makes an appearance.  His more aggressive 6 year old sister ... on the other hand ... is like an alarm clock.  If she is awake the household is awake.

3.  I never read Terri's facebook but ... the countless revealed photos imply Kyron was one fortunate kid who was surrounded by the love of a doting father and stepmother.

Janet