Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Sass - if you want this just about the Kyron case then I suppose I could move this thread over in the Kyron area.  Up to you.  Shall I move?

I'm going to move.   ::MonkeyCool::

I've read that Harry's dogs have alerted to a "death scent" close to the Horman residence. 

Has this "alert" been followed up on or have you been given permission to search the Horman yard?

Also, the woman Simoni had seen a caucasian boy with an African American homeless man by Ockley School.  Has anyone followed up on this tip?

Another question: Have you ever heard of Tim Miller from Texas Equusearch or have you ever worked with him? http://texasequusearch.org/ (http://texasequusearch.org/)

Question: Would you agree to work along side with him on the Kyron search if he had the time?

Hi Harry
I really appreciated all you did.

Anyway, as you wandered around (and you did a lot) what did you hear about the Pumalas?

DId you hear there were a lot of drugs around this whole scenario of these people like TH?

What is the latest now as to where Kyron might be, I heard today (thurs.) no one is searching SI. Do they have no idea? What about around all those roads in and around Forest Park or is that more for other evidence?

What about the "fisherwoman" who saw a woman with red hair dump something into Multnomah Channel?

OK, is this too many questions?

Follow up questions sent. I'll post when Harry replies.

TY Sassi...this has been very enlightening..particularly the parent's take on Terri's treatment of Kyron at the school.

I wonder why no one reported that to either the principal, guidance counselor or his teacher?

Thanks once again Sassi

I cannot believe with a child missing the police are playing turf wars ::MonkeyMad::

Question: Is it true Terri purchased a shovel a day or two prior to Kyron's disappearance, and paid cash for it when she would have normally paid with a credit card?

RUMOR Has it that is true. This came from a credible person close to  the case.

i know funny how someone says TH bought a shovel, and they own 4.6 acres
1.3 yard, how did she do any of the other gardening since 2007 and no LS
not trying to discredit harry, but the story of buying a shovel, a few days b4
is iffy. dont know if this is harry reliable source, from previous Qs, could be
this reliable source needs a checking

I totally agree! They should be ashamed of themselves!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Nana29, Lenie, pinetucky,

I see you up there! Don't be afraid to post!  ::MonkeyAngel:: Jump in the cage!  ::MonkeyWink::

Question: Has the fact that Mr. Oakes dogs have alerted multiple times to a death scent at the Horman's been reported to LE?  If so, what did they say?

I've filed three reports with them. NO RESPONSE.


This is about the sorriest thing I have heard to date!

With all the monies this county has spent on the search for this child, and there is a possibility that he maybe buried on the Horman's property, and they refuse to acknowledge a credible searcher, how screwed up is that?

It really makes one wonder, do they really want to find Kyron, or do they really want to prosecute Terri to justify spending all that money?

Why wouldn't Kaine want his property searched?

Ooh, ooh, ooh, I finally have a question! Is there another LE agency on the case that Harry can take his information to? Is there another agency that would be more willing to listen?

Thanks for doing this Sassi, and thank you Mr. Oakes!

Nana29, Lenie, pinetucky,

I see you up there! Don't be afraid to post!  ::MonkeyAngel:: Jump in the cage!  ::MonkeyWink::

Question: Has the fact that Mr. Oakes dogs have alerted multiple times to a death scent at the Horman's been reported to LE?  If so, what did they say?

I've filed three reports with them. NO RESPONSE.


This is about the sorriest thing I have heard to date!

With all the monies this county has spent on the search for this child, and there is a possibility that he maybe buried on the Horman's property, and they refuse to acknowledge a credible searcher, how screwed up is that?

It really makes one wonder, do they really want to find Kyron, or do they really want to prosecute Terri to justify spending all that money?

Why wouldn't Kaine want his property searched?

Thank you to Harry for responding and the Q's and A's had some interesting responses from Harry. The scent from the Horman property is the most puzzling one. Puzzling to me as to why no one wants to let the dogs either prove or disprove. 

Question: Has the fact that Mr. Oakes dogs have alerted multiple times to a death scent at the Horman's been reported to LE?  If so, what did they say?

I've filed three reports with them. NO RESPONSE.


This is about the sorriest thing I have heard to date!

With all the monies this county has spent on the search for this child, and there is a possibility that he maybe buried on the Horman's property, and they refuse to acknowledge a credible searcher, how screwed up is that?

It really makes one wonder, do they really want to find Kyron, or do they really want to prosecute Terri to justify spending all that money?

Why wouldn't Kaine want his property searched?

But Nana, I have two family members in LE, and this does go on!  I wish I was wrong!

Yes! WHY wouldn't Kaine want his property search?  HELLO!  Kaine is missing a son! Why wouldn't Kaine want everything searched?  Why wouldn't Kaine want to give something small for a "scent" of Kyron.  More oddities with respect to Kaine.

In the meantime, I cut myself off on my last post, we'll just have to wait and see.

Sassifrass, I think you are right.

I think Desiree will be the one to light the fire under Kaine's butt and get him to allow the search of his property. 

Harry's answers to follow up questions.


Question: The dogs alerting on the edge of the property, does tha mean that there is a body there or they was once a body there?
 
It could mean either.
 
 
Lets say that someone died on the property and has since been removed, would a dog be able to pick up that scent and if so how long does that sent last?
 
yes up to one year min.
 
Or does the dogs alerting mean there is a body on the property now?
it could be, since we're not allowed on the property there's no way of us knowing. I've asked the sheriff's office twice to allow us on the property (they refuse).


Question:  If someone had died on that property say 5 years ago before the Hormans bought it would it still "show" a death scent? For example someone had a heart attack out under the trees and passed.
 
Yes possible but, we would have to be directly over the location where the body fluids seeped into the grounds. Highly unlikely after this long though.

Question: Is it true Terri purchased a shovel a day or two prior to Kyron's disappearance, and paid cash for it when she would have normally paid with a credit card?

RUMOR Has it that is true. This came from a credible person close to  the case.

Question: Has LE used their dogs to search the Horman property?
YES but again that doesn't mean squat to us. They used the same dogs on many cases and told the families The victim wasn't there and we've gone in and found them in the original search area.
Ashley Pond Miranda Gaddis for example.
many others listed on our web site. BTW, this is true! I lived a few blocks from this and saw everything go down. Even the FBI xray machines couldn't find them, but Harry's dogs did.

Question: Is there any way you can like drop the leash and have the dog accidentially run onto the Horman property?
 
Like an "Oops"?, Ok, seriously, is there any way to get on to the Horman property without permission, can you get around that, to rule this out?
sure if I want to go to jail for trespassing.
not going to happen.
MCSO would love nothing better then to put my ass in jail.
 

Question: Has the fact that Mr. Oakes dogs have alerted multiple times to a death scent at the Horman's been reported to LE?  If so, what did they say?
I've filed three reports with them. NO RESPONSE.

Me too, Puzzler. 

Sassifrass seems confident Desiree is reading through here. 

As heartbreaking as this would be if Harry's dogs are correct, it would allow this family to move forward rather than live in stunned limbo.  I can't imagine this open ended grief of not knowing that they have been subject to for almost 3 months.

They need to allow Harry Oakes a chance to search Kaine's property.

Put the political crap aside and do this for Kyron.

If Kaine doesn't want his property checked then I would have to wonder "why".  What better place to put Kyron?  They have a large property and the house is a substantial distance from the road...simple.  So "why" doesn't Kaine want his property searched?  Perhaps LE has already searched the property with dogs; I hope so.  Do we know?

But, sorry to be a broken record, Harry says his dogs alerted three times on a spot.  What I'm saying is "why" isn't anyone checking out that spot where the dogs alerted (not talking about all of Kaine's property).

No, no, no   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I meant HAVING them was crap, I realize it goes on...sad...and we are supposed to be adults.
I am sorry if that came out wrong , Claycat....would you accept a Nana banana? ::MonkeyAngel::

Puzzler~

So, according to a credible person close to the case, Terri very well may have purchased a shovel a day or two of Kyron disappearing, and the SAR dogs are alerting to a death scent at the Horman residence.

Sadly, this needs to be ruled out.

Need to reboot my computer. Brb!  ::MonkeyTongue::

Sassi thanks for starting this thread it is a real eye opener !

If Kaine doesn't want his property checked then I would have to wonder "why".  What better place to put Kyron?  They have a large property and the house is a substantial distance from the road...simple.  So "why" doesn't Kaine want his property searched?  Perhaps LE has already searched the property with dogs; I hope so.  Do we know?

But, sorry to be a broken record, Harry says his dogs alerted three times on a spot.  What I'm saying is "why" isn't anyone checking out that spot where the dogs alerted (not talking about all of Kaine's property).

Multnomah County deputies haven't revealed many details about the investigation or search effort, but Kyron's father said their home has been searched several times.

"Yeah, they've been down to search many times and they're welcome to search many more times. Whatever it takes to find him," Horman said.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24037919/detail.html

So we know LE did...but, as KH says, "whatever it takes to find him"

Should I or shouldn't I? That is the question.  ::MonkeyCool::

As I've stated before, I'm pretty confident Kaine doesn't know about Harry. It's not like LE is going to run to Kaine and say "neener neener, Harry Oakes wants to bring his dogs on your property and we told him NO! This is OUR case! "  ::MonkeyWink::

Alright a bit dramatic but you get the drift. I would bet my house on that they never told Kaine about Harry contacting them. Also  remember that Harry only contacted Kaine about a scent article.

This has gotta change!  ::MonkeyMad::

Okay, so what are we saying:  LE checked Kaine's house.  But...it doesn't say that LE checked all that land.

This calls for a Monkey vote.

I have a way to contact KH & DY to let him know about Harry's scent, and I don't have any problem doing that, but I'm worried about the wording. I don't want it to seem depressing. Any suggestions Monkeys?   ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyCool::

Well, I'm taking a few days off to catch up on some household stuff and do some weeding outside, checking in periodically, so I'll use that time to think about this.

God will guide me.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Here is my Monkey Vote, Sassi........  ::MonkeyAngel::

Sassi,

Certainly a hard email to write to Kaine and Desiree.  I would be very diplomatic about the LE part..remember Tony himself is LE...

Yeah, I'm not going to even mention that. I would like to consider myself diplomatic when it comes to sensitive subjects. I think I'm just going to have to do this and let what ever rolls, roll. I just have to make sure that they know. If they do already know, then it's on them to do what they want with it.

We're coming to get you Kyron!  ::MonkeyAngel::

Awwww!  Sassifrass, I wish we were coming to get him!

Sassifrass,

You write your letter from the heart.  Take into consideration all the parents on here who have lost their children.  How would you talk to them about this?  Perhaps some of them can give you some insight on how they would have wanted someone to have spoken to them?  It's never going to be an easy conversation, however, since it is a one sided letter, you don't get the added benefit of the tone and body language.

Keep it short and sweet.  Write down what you want to say before you write it out, like an outline- you just want to plant the seed as opposed to rubbing it in their faces that they're dumb for not working with Harry.  Let them know they have support, prayers and Harry Oakes is available to them and would like to meet with them.

Let the family contact him.  Harry can discuss his own conclusions with them.  We'd just like to see them meet with Harry.  He would be more qualified talking to a victims family than us.  Talk to Harry and see what he says. 

If Kaine doesn't want his property checked then I would have to wonder "why".  What better place to put Kyron?  They have a large property and the house is a substantial distance from the road...simple.  So "why" doesn't Kaine want his property searched?  Perhaps LE has already searched the property with dogs; I hope so.  Do we know?

But, sorry to be a broken record, Harry says his dogs alerted three times on a spot.  What I'm saying is "why" isn't anyone checking out that spot where the dogs alerted (not talking about all of Kaine's property).

From what I have ascertained in the interviews by Desiree and Kaine, they are convinced that Kyron is alive. Maybe that is one of the reasons that they don't allow Harry's dogs on the property? If Desiree or Kaine read this, I would like to point out that Carrie McGonigle, Amber Dubois' mother hired her own dogs, seperate from LE. It was Carrie's peoples dogs that  were the dogs that led her to Pala. Amber's body was later found in Pala. Granted the dogs did not lead them to the spot where Amber was found, but they got close.

Which came first, LE search of the horman property or Harry Oaks search of the edge of the property?

Not sure TG. I don't know the detailed dates. You're really on a mission about this aren't you?

I will make this promise to you. This week, a message will be sent that WILL reach Desiree about the death scent from Harry.  ::MonkeyAngel::

I am not trying to badger you about the email, honestly I am not. Actually my postings have nothing to do with the email, ok? I am sure when you put it all together it will be a very good message.
BTW, I think Desiree already knows about the scent, how could she not? This has been a story in the news. Her husband is LE in the state of Oregon, I am not sure if his opinion of HO is going to be that different from Le working the case. 

Which came first, LE search of the horman property or Harry Oaks search of the edge of the property?

TG, I don't feel you're badgering me sweety. It has NOT been in the news that HO got a death scent near the Horman property. MCSO know because they were contacted directly by HO. TY wouldn't necessarily know that he contacted them just like KH wouldn't know.

Remember the presser with DY & KH when a reporter asked about DDS's contact with Terri and the shock on their face? They didn't know anything about it even though it was all over the internet. I firmly believe they have no idea.

Sassi, the second part doesn't look like it was written by Harry.

I didn't see a need to post Harry's blog. We've already seen it. Linda is commenting on the importance to let Harry search the Hormon property and I like her spunk!  ::MonkeyTongue::

Still have the flue which is why I've been so quiet. Hope to be better before the end of the week. I'm going to get that message to them one way or another. I've been writing something up in word format, but I don't trust my mind right now because it's in such a fog.

I'll post the letter, without the contact name, as soon as I finish it and send it off.

sass you may want to take out your name on the bottom of the post. I am going to flag it for you

Sass thank you for taking the time to write the letter. I hope it helps to answer a very big question.

no no no I don't care who knows me! I have nothing to hide!  ::MonkeyKiss::

This is an answer to my letter for Desiree regarding Harry:


I will forward this message to Desi. I obviously cannot divulge to you the information I have, but I can tell you that there are things stated there that are completly untrue, but as to some other info in it I guarantee it will get to the right people. Thank you for caring about him and doing your best to help bring him home to us. I truly believe in my heart that Kyron is still alive and will be coming home.

Its about safety not hiding. This case has taken some odd turns, I don't want anything to happen, thats all.

Thanks for posting the response. So I wonder what is untrue? The part about the dogs hitting on a death scent, LE not responding, a political riff between HO and LE?

This is an answer to my letter for Desiree regarding Harry:


I will forward this message to Desi. I obviously cannot divulge to you the information I have, but I can tell you that there are things stated there that are completly untrue, but as to some other info in it I guarantee it will get to the right people. Thank you for caring about him and doing your best to help bring him home to us. I truly believe in my heart that Kyron is still alive and will be coming home.

I wonder what information they have Kyron is still alive?

Either they are in serious denial or there is information that isn't being shared that Kyron is still alive. 

If they have some clue Kyron is alive, then they have to have an idea of who did this and where he may be?

With all do respect to the family, they need to take a page of the book Carri, Amber's mom read and go to the place where they think he is then, even if it is in another country.

Sassi~

When I first read your reply I thought perhaps I should apologize. 

Then, I thought, my questions are valid.  Do I think the family would be there if they thought where Kyron was, I'd have to answer No.  I think the family would let LE handle it so they could get the SOB who is holding him, rather than rush in and get him.  Prosecution is warranted in this case.  You just can't go and steal people's children for whatever reason.

As far as questioning the family's beliefs, they are entitled to them first off, however, there's a significant difference in searching for a "live Kyron" vs a "deceased Kyron".

Everyone who is following this case wants to see a live Kyron returned home, unscathed, and unharmed by this experience.

Since we all want the same thing and are doing the research to make this come about, why do I feel like I have to be on the defensive by voicing my thoughts?

Statistically speaking, you know this as factual as I do, the longer a child is missing the less his chances of survival.

Again, we are hoping and praying Kyron isn't going to be another statistic.

Every avenue needs to be explored, alive, deceased, kidnapped, sold, EVERYTHING.

Until there is closure on this case, all these players need to be looked at as SUSPECT.


Let's continue to work in unison to bringing this child home!  ::MonkeyKiss::

MK

Either they are in serious denial or there is information that isn't being shared that Kyron is still alive.

If they have some clue Kyron is alive, then they have to have an idea of who did this and where he may be?

Sassi looking at this case logically, Kyron is no longer alive to say it frankly. He died shortly after being taken. I agree there is a strong bond between mother and child but sometimes that instinctual feeling we have can be clouded by the fear of reality. So many parents will say their child is still alive only to find they are not. Carries words echo in my head when she told me, she knows in her gut her daughter is a live and needs her. God I wish that were the case as I wish it the case with Kyron.
This thread is about a death scent in relation to Kyron, it seems appropriate to discuss an outcome that no one wants. In doing so it is not questioning the parents or stepping on their hope...
An investigation needs to cover both a living and a non living victim...There is always hope Kyron is alive and until a body is found that hope should never stop, however a body needs to be looked for.

I agree with you Tracygirl, logically Kyron is no longer alive, and what parent wants to think that, of course his parents want to think he is still alive. But thinking he is deceased is certainly not questioning his parents or crushing their hope, it is just being realistic. None of us can change what Kyron's parents, or any parents of a missing loved one thinks.

As hard as it is, I'm afraid Kyron probably is dead.  I hope against hope that he is alive, but statistically it isn't likely.  My hope is that his case does not follow the usual pattern. 

All I can say is if I was in this very unfortunate situation I would allow everyone and anyone to search for my child. LE hasnt' found Kryon, so is it time to bring in a PI and independent searchers? I really do think it is.

All I can say is if I was in this very unfortunate situation I would allow everyone and anyone to search for my child. LE hasnt' found Kryon, so is it time to bring in a PI and independent searchers? I really do think it is.

Maybe LE is telling them to be patient, they're getting close, or maybe they need to keep the investigation in their hands without outside interference. It's tough for Desiree because Tony is LE, so she pretty much has to rely on LE.

http://k9sardog.blogspot.com/2009/07/facebook-harry-oakes.html  (http://k9sardog.blogspot.com/2009/07/facebook-harry-oakes.html)"I wasn’t welcome within search camps within...Oregon only after I testified against the Oregon State Sheriff’s Association on House Bill 3093, where I testified on the mismanagement of SAR in Oregon that have cost lives. I was told by Lt Neil James that, 'if I testified against the OSSA at the HB hearing, I would never be used by the O.S.S.A. again'.
I testified and told the truth. The Oregon State Police, The Oregon Mountain Rescue Council, the Oregon Fire Fighters Association all supported me in my efforts on HB 3093. Trying to update SAR laws in the state of Oregon which hadn’t been updated since 1974. Because of my testimony, the O.S.S.A. refuses to use my services because I made them look bad in the OREGON SENATE." -- Harry Oakes

...(edited)...
 Unfortunately, I feel it's unlikely that LE will relent on this without outside pressure from the media or public. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/On the way out, she grabbed a tarp covering the concrete slab in Ward’s backyard.  And then she ran naked and trembling after a savage sexual assault— into the street, where she flagged down a passing car. And within hours, Ward Weaver was arrested, booked, and behind bars, charged with rape.

    Portland Tribune reporter Jim Redden: That was the moment that I really thought, "This is the guy."

Linda O’Neal says she’d known it for months. She had known in her gut that Weaver was a violent man, who’d killed Ashley and Miranda. And they had him in custody now, for a violent rape, so she felt sure the FBI would move quickly to charge him in the disappearance of Ashley and Miranda.

    Morrison: Once he was in custody was a search warrant issued for his property?

    O’Neal: There was a search conducted that had everything to do with the rape, with the crime that occurred that day, but then they took down the yellow crime tape and they left.

And without crime scene tape or a steady police presence, Weaver’s house became a kind of open house. After weeks of people seeing Weaver’s name in the papers, or seeing him on the news, sitting near that freshly poured concrete slab, and hearing of his arrest for rape, many of the locals had come to the same conclusion as Linda: What was the FBI waiting for?

In mid-August, in the days after Ward was arrested for raping his son’s girlfriend, protestors gathered at the property. They left their accusing signs lying around the unexamined back yard...

    Morrison: How long was it between the time Ward Weaver was arrested, and the time somebody got a search warrant to look into his property?

    O’Neal: Well, he was arrested August 13, and it was August 23 when they got the search warrant.

Then, with crowds gathering again as if they knew what was to come, the FBI showed up in force, erecting two white tents, bringing in dozens of agents and tons of equipment.

Hours later, there was the first discovery: a box, in a shed behind the house, with remains. The Oregon state medical examiner positively identified the remains of the discovered body of Miranda Gaddis.

The following day, there was another vigil and another discovery. Investigators finally dug up that concrete slab. It was the very spot at which that search dog had issued a “death alert” five months before.

And there beneath it, they found another body — Ashley Pond’s.

    O’Neal: It was very sad news because I think you always hope, until there’s a body, you always have hope. And even though I always believed the bodies were there, the reality of it was difficult. These two beautiful young girls were gone forever.

During all those days, weeks, months, of anxiety and hope… the long investigation, the scores of officers, the bodies of the two little girls were right here all along in Ward Weaver’s backyard.

And Weaver himself? At first, claimed he had not a thing to do with it. But in the end, Ward Weaver, without explaining how or why, simply pleaded guilty and was sentenced to remain in prison for the rest of his life.

At his sentencing, the judge said: “I think everyone probably shares in the hope that there is a special place in hell for people like you.”

How could Ward Weaver have gotten away with it for so long? And how could the FBI have seemed so, well, off?  Especially when others seemed to have figured it all so neatly? There was sadness, yes, for the loss of those two girls— but also now, anger.

    Redden: Our headline was “Why did it take so long?” And that was the question that we were trying to get answered. We still don’t know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/)Harry, with his [dog] Valerie now excited and on the chase, knocked at Weaver’s door and asked for permission to search the house.

    Harry Oakes: [Weaver] said, “I don’t have any problem with you searching, they’ve already brought in 7 different search dog teams. I have nothing to hide.” During the search of the house she gave me a death alert of Ashley’s scent in Ward’s hallway.

Second paragraph of my post is in the wrong thread....Oops!!

I think I need a Monkey Map!

                                               
MK,

LOL.

I must say I LOVE the avatar down by your signature.  Very amusing. I keep dragging people to my computer to see it.  I wanna figure out how to animate/get an avatar!   ::MonkeyConfused::

You don't,(animate/get)...LET someone do it for you!    ::MonkeyHaHa::  I actually wenr online and found the monkey, and Brandi animated it for me....some special and talented monkeys we have fallen in with    ::MonkeyAngel::

In Oregon City, Law Enforcement ignored Harry's reports for five months after he discovered the bodies of Ashley Pond, Miranda Gaddis, and Jane Doe.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Ultimately the public was responsible for the retrieval of the girls' remains.  If Ward Weaver's last victim hadn't escaped, and if the public hadn't held two vigils basically demanding that his property be searched, there would be at least four girls, still undiscovered, right next to the high school.  And Weaver would still be at large.  Because, according to MSNBC, he was never considered a prime suspect.  Here's a clip from the article:  ::MonkeyMad::

 

                                               
MK,

LOL.

I must say I LOVE the avatar down by your signature.  Very amusing. I keep dragging people to my computer to see it.  I wanna figure out how to animate/get an avatar!   ::MonkeyConfused::

Kokos Cat...here is her link for animating

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4314.new#new

Monkey King...Is a monkey map easier to read than a "real" one?    ::MonkeyEek::

So, I'm patiently waiting to see if Desiree can convince Kaine to allow Harry to search the property. It's really a big part of this case and the more we can eliminate, the more we can investigate.

This HAS to be done! What do they have to lose? Nothing except the thought that Kyron may or may not be alive. I believe in my heart that he is alive, but my mind says otherwise. I'm pretty conflicted on this.

The one thing I know is, HARRY NEEDS TO BRING HIS DOGS ON KAINES PROPERTY, and given a piece of Kyrons clothing/scent article.

I, as well as many other people want to put this piece of the puzzle to a close.

Desiree, please do this for Kyron.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Yep. I actually lived 2 blocks away from there when this was all going down! Harry brought those girls and Jane Doe home.  ::MonkeyGavel::

Bumping this for you, Sassi! --oo oo oo,  I'm so excited to be among the monkeys! --    ::MonkeyCheer4::

Thanks for the warm welcome Sassi, Nana & MK     ::MonkeyKiss:: 

& thanks thanks thanks for the referral to Brandi!  Hope you like my new clothes!  She did a great job, tailored to fit!   ::piggy::

Koko's Cat 



And, Nana, I'm so happy to be fully clothed, fall is in the air.... 

To ALL of Kyrons family:

I know you're reading this. Please, please, I beg you, Let Harry go on the Horman residence and give him a scent artical to search for Kyron.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Given Harry's experience, and all the monies this investigation has cost the taxpayers-and no result, you would think the next logical step is to bring in people from the private sector to resolve this issue- Bring Kyron Home.

Rumors have run rampant in this case.  It's been rumored Kaine had a homosexual relationship.  I don't know if that's true or not, and personally it's his choice, but if it is true, how many women would have an issue with that if that was your husband?

Would this have been the explaination for the MFH plot?

I don't know...would depend on the woman, I guess.

I do think that it would make most all women feel "insecure" and if that woman were an insecure-type person, then that would exacerbate the situation.  Now...if that same person were angry that she had to remove her son from her home, that would pile on additional resentment. 

The rumors about Kaine being "bi".  Who knows what's true because Kaine has put it out there that he doesn't want anyone talking to the press...even went to the extent to tell folks at Intel not to talk.  What!?!  He could/could not be "bi". We don't know.  To those who say it doesn't matter and tries to squelch any discussion about the issue, we don't know if it matters.  If true, and Terri found out, maybe she was hurt and angry enough to get him back so to speak.  I hope not.  I hope it's not true.  But we don't know at this point if whether Kaine is "bi" has anything to do with Kyron going missing.  It also brings into play that someone else, other than Terri, could be involved with Kaine and have an ax to grind.  So, you see, we don't know whether it's important or not.  This could be just as important to check out as some orphanage in Mexico.  The point being:  we don't know at this time.

 

sassi do you know if your contact person has given Desiree the message? Did she say she will talk to Kaine about it?

Yes TG they did pass it on to DY. I believe with enough public outcry, it will happen. If I receive a message from them, I will forward it on to one of the monkeys so they can post it in this forum.
 ::MonkeyAngel::

Yes TG they did pass it on to DY. I believe with enough public outcry, it will happen. If I receive a message from them, I will forward it on to one of the monkeys so they can post it in this forum.
 ::MonkeyAngel::

Just heard from Harry. He will be gone for 2 more weeks. That seems like forever.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Answers from Harry.
1.   I've read that Harry's dogs have alerted to a "death scent" close to the Horman residence.

Answer:

 yes that's true. Two different search dog teams from IK9SARS haven't been allowed on the Horman property. But everytime we get near the boundries of the property three search dogs from two handlers all do the same thing. Give death alerts and get upset.

2.   Has this "alert" been followed up on or have you been given permission to search the Horman yard?

Answer:NO

[edited...]

HO:
We don't just have cadaver dogs. Our dogs are trained for both live and dead.

so do you think he will be allowed to search?

so do you think he will be allowed to search?

"I wasn’t welcome within search camps within his own state of Oregon" only after I testified against the Oregon State Sheriff’s Association on House Bill 3093, where I testified on the mismanagement of SAR in Oregon that have cost lives. I was told by Lt Neil James that," if I testified against the OSSA at the HB hearing, I would never be used by the O.S.S.A. again".
I testified and told the truth. The Oregon State Police, The Oregon Mountain Rescue Council, the Oregon Fire Fighters Association all supported me in my efforts on HB 3093. Trying to update SAR laws in the state of Oregon which hadn’t been updated since 1974. Because of my testimony, the O.S.S.A. refuses to use my services because I made them look bad in the OREGON SENATE.

the question was has the lead been followed up, and have you been allowed to search, was that no to both?

Sacky,

Sadly, no.  I do not.  Not if LE has anything to say about it.  Not unless their relationship with Oakes drastically changes.  But it hasn't, even recently.  Everything that he reports is ignored by LE. And, this includes the FBI.  Oakes found the bodies of Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond but LE ignored the reports for 5 months, until Ward Weaver struck again.  His last victim escaped.  Still, he was not considered a suspect in the case.  If the public had not hosted a vigil, it is unlikely those girls in Oregon City would have ever been found.  Here's the story per MSNBC:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/)


According to Oakes, this is the reason he will never work for LE in Oregon: http://k9sardog.blogspot.com/2009/07/facebook-harry-oakes.html

Sassi, Karen Anne is a friend of mine at WS.  She is also a member here.  I believe she is very concerned for the missing and belongs to many forums.  She is probably gleaning information wherever she can just like we are.

If that is the case Claycat, then I openly apologize and retract my statement.  ::MonkeyAngel::

From my point of view, I would never be associated with one of those support pages. It would go against my beliefs and standards. So I hope you can see my point of view when I made that statement. Basically, you don't have to join the group to see or get any info. Just saying.  ::MonkeyKiss::

p.s. Thanks for your reply Claycat. I've always admired your honesty and kindness towards others.  ::MonkeyAngel::

I should clarify:  The FBI will probably eventually respond, under pressure from the public and/or media.  But in the past, it's probably been a turf war between them (local LE vs. FBI)

Now.... maybe this will change, though!  If what was said in the press conference is true... they may be more open to help.

Undoubtedly LE's search dogs have been on the property.  However, they were at Ward Weaver's 7 times, according to Oakes, and found nothing.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: We have a big problem with SAR in Oregon.

Oakes blames he handlers, not the dogs, for this situation, by the way.  He says that even an untrained dog will alert to a cadaver.  According to Oakes, the handlers are not responding to the dogs!

-----
THE ONLY WAY THAT HARRY OAKES WILL GAIN ACCESS TO THAT PROPERTY IS IF KAINE HORMAN AGREES TO IT.   ::MonkeyAngel::

----

Thanks sass for the update. This needs to happen, period. Glad that it can be over riden somehow although I think Kaine should just allow him to search the property.

Sorry I am having a brain fade at the moment. What is the other guys name that does the scent tracking? As a compromise if everyone hates Hary, can he and Harry work together or this other man have his dogs search.
Kaine you need to allow this, there is not a reason on earth it should not be done. Don't want to be mean but come on already.

if kyron is alive and could have been helped by this that is terrible.
if kyron is not alive and harry oaks could have found his body long ago, then we would not have dragged all the le and concerned community through this for 15 weeks and over a million dollars. how much pride costs...[edited by me for space]
perhaps though with all the other investigations coming from this one, (I hope thats true) perhaps another childs life will be spared from a similar fate.

Hiya TracyGirl!

I believe it's Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch.  Haven't been able to quickly find his website (don't know if he has one).  Below please find an article about him that I grabbed... I don't even have time to read it.  Don't know much about the source, either. 

For what it's worth: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/texas_equusearch/1.html (http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/texas_equusearch/1.html) 

I believe I may have been the one ??? to ask Harry if he would consider working with Tim Miller (check back in this forum to confirm) and he said:  "YES".  Or did I dream this?!?  Sorry... I'm like the white rabbit here... I'm late, I'm late, I'm late...  I apologize in advance if I'm taking credit for someone else in the Q & A portion of this! 

Good luck Monkeys! 

That's not necessarily true. If Harry has a scent article, and comes up with a death scent (God I hate even typing that), because he is SAR certified, he would report it to LE and Kaine would have no choice.

There is always a work around when someone is being stubborn.  ::MonkeyWink::

You're cute Koko!  ::MonkeyTongue:: Actually I asked the question and didn't post an answer to it because I thought the answer had nothing to do with Kyron.  ::MonkeyWink::

Within the next few days, because I'm taking my time writing the request because of it being such a delicate area, I'll send it out. I'll keep you updated as things proceed.  ::MonkeyKiss::

This is the first missing child case that I have been proactive in, and I have a feeling it won't be the last. I'm more of a doer than a talker. I'm not experienced with forums. I've never been on a forum until my concern about this case hit, but I sure have learned a lot from the Monkeys here. I've made some mistakes in my communication with other people, but I want to assure you that my intentions are always sincere.

Enough babbling from me.  ::MonkeyTongue:: I'll keep you posted!  ::MonkeyAngel::

Hi, Sassi!  Thanks for all your work on this! 

I think Harry has already submitted the report to LE regarding the scent coming from the direction of Horman's property.  In fact, he may have submitted more than one.  However, it's "just" a generic cadaver scent (HUMAN).  And not specific to Kyron.  With a scent article he could make a positive i.d. regarding Kyron.  Not that this would mean ANYTHING.  Ashley Pond's mom requested Harry search Ward Weaver's property (after LE's K-9s had been there SEVEN times, according to Harry). 

Harry submitted the report -- he had found THREE bodies, not just two.  (Ashley & Miranda & Jane Doe).  LE ignored it for 5 months.  (Rewind.  Repeat.)  Sorry.  I'm going to quit beating this to death one day, I just know it.  Maybe after I'm dead, I'll give it a rest.  But I doubt it.   ::MonkeyGavel::

This is not the first time this has happened and if things don't change in Oregon, it will not be the last. 

LE will not investigate reports by Harry.  Period.   ::MonkeyMad::

Hi, Sassi!  Thanks for all your work on this! 

I think Harry has already submitted the report to LE regarding the scent coming from the direction of Horman's property.  In fact, he may have submitted more than one.  However, it's "just" a generic cadaver scent (HUMAN).  And not specific to Kyron.  With a scent article he could make a positive i.d. regarding Kyron.  Not that this would mean ANYTHING.  Ashley Pond's mom requested Harry search Ward Weaver's property (after LE's K-9s had been there SEVEN times, according to Harry). 

Harry submitted the report -- he had found THREE bodies, not just two.  (Ashley & Miranda & Jane Doe).  LE ignored it for 5 months.  (Rewind.  Repeat.)  Sorry.  I'm going to quit beating this to death one day, I just know it.  Maybe after I'm dead, I'll give it a rest.  But I doubt it.   ::MonkeyGavel::

This is not the first time this has happened and if things don't change in Oregon, it will not be the last. 

LE will not investigate reports by Harry.  Period.   ::MonkeyMad::

I know about the Ashley and Miranda case. I lived several blocks from there when it was happening, and I witnessed what Harry did after LE had already been there. So, I know his capabilities and talent.

As far as LE not investigating reports from Harry, I have a back up plan to that. If he get's a death scent or live scent regarding Kyron, LE WILL have to check it out. I've thought about this long and hard and did a lot of research. They will have no choice.  ::MonkeyWink::

This is not about LE or Kaine, or anyone else. This is about Kyron and bringing him home.  ::MonkeyAngel::

I just want to add, I have not been in contact with Kaine. A while ago, I sent him some messages(not Harry related) and he was non-responsive. I understand that because he was surely being bombarded with messages, but other info that has come to light, shows that he objects to his property being searched by Harry. Whatever his reasons are, he has that right. On the other side of the coin, Kyron, as a victim, has the right to be found. MOO.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Sassi,

http://www.ci.medford.or.us/page.asp?navid=1760

I just found this article about Tony Young previously being a K9 handler for Medford.

Is this maybe the real reason there has been no search allowed?  I hope with all my heart that Tony would not let any personal bias keep Harry Oakes from doing a search for Kyron.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I just want to add, I have not been in contact with Kaine. A while ago, I sent him some messages(not Harry related) and he was non-responsive. I understand that because he was surely being bombarded with messages, but other info that has come to light, shows that he objects to his property being searched by Harry. Whatever his reasons are, he has that right. On the other side of the coin, Kyron, as a victim, has the right to be found. MOO.  ::MonkeyAngel::

BBM

Sassi I want to thank you for all the hard work you have done in contacting Harry and then Desiree's family.

Could you expound more on the other info that has come to light?

Sorry, Klaas just set me straight. This was brought up before. Probably read it and forgot it...just to suddenly remember....just love getting older...

Kaine needs to have this done. Not to be mean to him, I think at this point he doesn't reserve the right to say no.  There could be a dead person on that property and whoever it may be, they need to be recovered.

Well, I just got a reply. We'll have an answer by either tomorrow night, or earlier the following morning.

I'm just so greatful they aren't closing the door on this!  ::MonkeyAngel::

Thank you, Sassi!  I'm so hoping it will be a positive answer!

My last post, and I'm sure this will be edited or deleted.

I am sick and fricken tired of forums and the cliques that go on within. Who gives a damn how long you have been on the forum or how long you have been doing this. Does that make a new person to the forums ideas or comments less worthy? Do they deserve to be bullied, banned,humiliated, or ignored just because they made a comment or suggestion? Hell no!

It's disheartening what I've seen. It's like being back in high school again. WTH? This is about a missing child! Put your damn egos at the door! I never had been a part of any forums until Kyron went missing. Boy, did I get a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not saying all, but there are some people that believe their word is truth and can't help but make it public that the poster is FOS and just plain wrong. Why bring that on the forum? Does it help bring Kyron home? NO.

I was banned from a site because they said the Monkeys were saying I was playing games. That is far from the truth! I have done nothing but try and bring Kyron home.

Sorry for the rage and bantering, but I'm done with forums. I'm sure I'll get banned from here, but I don't care. I'll continue my contact with Desiree's family in a supportive role, but that's it.

Lazy Dog 1,
Good morning.
I am confused reading what you wrote. 
What did HO say about bloggers who contributed to search funds?
I read at the link to his site and did not see it?
Thank you for any help.
Tol

Lazy Dog 1,
Good morning.
I am confused reading what you wrote. 
What did HO say about bloggers who contributed to search funds?
I read at the link to his site and did not see it?
Thank you for any help.
Tol

I'm not LazyDog1, but I believe you will find the answer if you scroll up the page to Reply #223.

I'm not LazyDog1, but I believe you will find the answer if you scroll up the page to Reply #223.

FWIW - I have not told Sass she is in jeopardy of being banned here.  I just want to make it clear  ::MonkeyCool::

Sassi, I hope you will come back!

One last thing..... Desiree was not a part of the fund raising. That was Kaine.

Also, for the people that like to go on other forums and talk about other Monkeys, you should be ashamed of yourself. Gossiping about people when this is suppose to be about Kyron. You know who you are! Shame on you! I hope you can live with yourself.

Good luck to all the real monkeys searching for the truth.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Darla, thank-you  ::MonkeyCool:: very well said.

Thank you NRCG....There is just no sense in all this drama.....If anything breaks in thiscase..will you just email me, I am done with this crap over here.

I don't think any less of Kyon's family for not allowing Harry Oakes to search.  Kyron's family, with the exception of Terri have been working with and cooperating with LE from the news reports I've been reading.  The family knows Harry Oakes could search but they've opted not to allow it.  I don't know what the family's reasons are not to provide a scent article nor to allow a search, but that would be their decision and I respect that.  I don't understand why the need to mount a campaign to try to persuade the family to allow the search or to provide a scent item.  There is a lot we don't know, and I believe LE has been working and are investigating Kyron's case.  They have been very tight lipped, and I appreciate that, because their job is the investigation and not so much to report to us what they find or don't find, since it's an active investigation and they are building a case.  Maybe you think LE doesn't have a clue and you're entitled to that opinion.  I personally think LE has some information, they have some evidence and more than likely they have a good idea of what happened and who's responsible but it's their job to make sure if they make an arrest that there is enough proof, enough i's dotted and t's crossed to make the case stick.  And of course, it's all JMHO.

I really feel for Kyron's family during this very difficult time.   ::MonkeyAngel::

Good Afternoon Monkeys.....Have you guys thought about the fact that no one seems to want Harry Oakes around? From what I have read up on Harry Oakes he is nothing but a big mouth piece with an over inflated ego. It is not our place to insist on a family using someone they do not want anything to do with. He is whining about the money he spent on Kyron. If he is a for profit SAR....maybe he should not have come searching on his own if he wanted money....I don't remember LE or the family asking him to. And the blog post of his posted above really shows me what a piss-poor human he really is.I am not being critical of any poster, just you guys just need to think this through, as  you are just upsetting yourselves over something you can't control. Everyone is blaming LE for not searching the property....I have been here since day one of Kyron going missing....How do you know LE has not gone over that property with a fine tooth comb? We have no idea what LE has done and what they haven't done. I know Terri is stupid, but she had to know they would search that property ,so I do not think she brought Kyron back to the property they live on.

With all due respect....no one on a forum has found a missing person that I know of. We are here to listen to the facts...which we have very little on this case and carry on a civilized discussion. I come here to SM to read and get the latest news as SM is usually a day or two ahead of the media on what they find. Statistics show that most victims are either found by a hunter or hiker or a farmer. LE finds very few of them. And none of us here have ever found one that I know of.  Probably never will.

I have read so much bashing of LE that I quit posting on Kyron's thread. I don't go to other forums to read or post, so I have not been spreading rumors or talking about other Monkeys on other forums. But think about LE the next time you need to call 911. I agree 100% there are dirty cops out there. Just as there are criminals out there. But there is a great % of good ,dedicated cops out there, who are truly trying to find Kyron, just give them the opportunity.....They have to have enough evidence to make this case stick in court. When they make an arrest they have to have their T's crossed and their I's dotted. The clock starts ticking.

So if this case is consuming you, back off and rethink what you are saying.
With all due respect to all Monkeys.

I want to make something perfectly clear. I did NOT badger the family to allow HO to come on the property. I had NO contact with Kaine. I've been talking to and have gotten very close to Desiree's family. They had no idea about HO needing a scent article. They questioned me about his SAR dogs and the ability to track Kyron.

From there I asked many questions to HO. Their belief is that Kyron is alive and I won't take that from them.

Don't suddenly come on this thread and think you know everything that has happened when I haven't disclosed it because I'm protecting their anonymity. They wanted to know about HO and I gave them the information.

When I posted my banter it was out of frustration. I didn't want the replies that followed.

As far as the 'experienced' long time Monkeys, I don't care how long you've been here. It doesn't make your opinions correct. You have your opinion and I have mine. We can agree to disagree.

I've requested that Klaas close this thread.

Hi!  I just want to clear something up about Harry.  He put in a lot of hours searching for Kyron.  He's not complaining that he hasn't been paid.  He's just saying he can't do it for free anymore.  Unfortunately the timing was poor, because, as Sassi said, Desiree's family was just finding out that Harry had requested a scent item.  They weren't aware of it before.  Just wanted to clear that up.  Thanks!

I don't think any less of Kyon's family for not allowing Harry Oakes to search.  Kyron's family, with the exception of Terri have been working with and cooperating with LE from the news reports I've been reading.  The family knows Harry Oakes could search but they've opted not to allow it.  I don't know what the family's reasons are not to provide a scent article nor to allow a search, but that would be their decision and I respect that.  I don't understand why the need to mount a campaign to try to persuade the family to allow the search or to provide a scent item.  There is a lot we don't know, and I believe LE has been working and are investigating Kyron's case.  They have been very tight lipped, and I appreciate that, because their job is the investigation and not so much to report to us what they find or don't find, since it's an active investigation and they are building a case.  Maybe you think LE doesn't have a clue and you're entitled to that opinion.  I personally think LE has some information, they have some evidence and more than likely they have a good idea of what happened and who's responsible but it's their job to make sure if they make an arrest that there is enough proof, enough i's dotted and t's crossed to make the case stick.  And of course, it's all JMHO.

I really feel for Kyron's family during this very difficult time.   ::MonkeyAngel::

my personel opinion only
if i had a indicated death sent on my property, whether i had a missing
child or not, common sense tells me it should be investigated, if the
dogs are right(IDK much about,those types of trained dogs},great they found
someones loved one, if their wrong, oh well i have a 3ft deep hole in my
 yard and a clear conscience

im a little confused why LE would not investigate,considering a crime has
been committed, and could possibly involve that property, the only thing
i can come up with is it was investigated and it was nothing

I did not see anywhere of you being accused of badgering anyone. Did I miss something?  I saw you asking questions,providing information to family,and getting answers and being a "go between"( for lack of a better term). Although I am not privy to the actual communications between you all, I surely never got the impression they were out of line.

I am not sure what on this forum brought you to the point of (as you call it) "your banter out of frustration". I also don't understand where you would feel the need to point out..."As far as the 'experienced' long time Monkeys, I don't care how long you've been here. It doesn't make your opinions correct."  You are right, "You have your opinion and I have mine. We can agree to disagree."

I guess that is why I asked about the page on FB, Friends4 Kyron
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=132208513481277&topic=328#!
It was some of the same line of thought you had and I really wondered if one of the admins is you?

I can't imagine why they would want to reach out to media to put Ky's family through so much more anguish. I can see frustration on the part of F4K, but how awful for Ky's family to be once again put so harshly into public spotlight.
I have wondered if(one of) the reasons that HO has not been allowed on the property is that maybe it could jeopardize the investigation and therefore(and most importantly) Kyron...
That is my opinion...of which you can agree or not. Simple. If you don't agree, that is your opinion and ,ok, all good.Muffy is right, it is their decision....why push? (I agree)
Darla says,
"So if this case is consuming you, back off and rethink what you are saying.
With all due respect to all Monkeys."   Right on.  Simple solution.

As for closing the thread? Why? This does not compute to my Monkey brain. We may have other things to say re HO,etc, and this is a good place to post without mucking up the main Kyron thread.

Wondering where I am coming from? I have a niece who has been missing since 1993,I can empathize with this situation , but I will never know how they feel and what the motivation is behind their decisions. Family will make some unpopular decisions,we can't(or shouldn't) judge.  LE cannot circumvent the law(as much as we want) and probably are more frustrated than us most of the time that they can't "fix it"!Right now! I could never do their job, it is heartbreaking enough being on the fringes of battle, let alone bearing the responsibility they do. hey have my utmost gratitude and respect    ::CowboySmiley::    and I will continue to stand behind their decision to "hold it to their vest" until they  feel it would be safe to share.

Thank you Muffy Bee! Great post!! ::rhino::

I want to make something perfectly clear. I did NOT badger the family to allow HO to come on the property. I had NO contact with Kaine. I've been talking to and have gotten very close to Desiree's family. They had no idea about HO needing a scent article. They questioned me about his SAR dogs and the ability to track Kyron.

From there I asked many questions to HO. Their belief is that Kyron is alive and I won't take that from them.

Don't suddenly come on this thread and think you know everything that has happened when I haven't disclosed it because I'm protecting their anonymity. They wanted to know about HO and I gave them the information.

When I posted my banter it was out of frustration. I didn't want the replies that followed.
As far as the 'experienced' long time Monkeys, I don't care how long you've been here. It doesn't make your opinions correct. You have your opinion and I have mine. We can agree to disagree.

I've requested that Klaas close this thread.

It it a "full-moon" today?   ::MonkeyEek::

TG, go to  Friends4 Kyron on facebook; read through and link into their discussions and you will see what I mean.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=132208513481277&topic=328#!/pages/Friends-4-Kyron/132208513481277

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=132208513481277&topic=328#!

Rose, thanks. Someday I might be able to go into details...feeling a bit weepy today though, hard tothink and type in a blur.

From HO's facebook



Victoria Celeste-Greyh
Victoria Celeste-Greyh Hello Everyone, My name is Victoria- I wanted you all to know that Harry Oakes is scheduled to be a guest on my radio call-in talk show on Saturday, September 25, 2010 at 3:00 pm. Continued below
42 minutes ago · Comment · LikeUnlike · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1) · See Wall-to-Wall

    *
    *
    *
          o
            Victoria Celeste-Greyh I have listed all of the directions for this radio program and for people who would like to call in and talk to Harry on our friends .4. kyron page here on FB... I don't see a discussion tab here, so Please refer to our friends .4. kyron FB discussion pages or wall... thank you so much, Victoria Greyh
            41 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
    * Write a comment...

 ::monkeyscissors::
Wondering where I am coming from? I have a niece who has been missing since 1993,I can empathize with this situation , but I will never know how they feel and what the motivation is behind their decisions. Family will make some unpopular decisions,we can't(or shouldn't) judge.  LE cannot circumvent the law(as much as we want) and probably are more frustrated than us most of the time that they can't "fix it"!Right now! I could never do their job, it is heartbreaking enough being on the fringes of battle, let alone bearing the responsibility they do. hey have my utmost gratitude and respect    ::CowboySmiley::    and I will continue to stand behind their decision to "hold it to their vest" until they  feel it would be safe to share.

LOL! A harvest moon to beat! Hahaha!
http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20100923/september-equinox-2010-harvest-moon-jupiter-usher-autumn-id-10129387.html

Harvest moon, Jupiter mesmerize sky watchers
Not only is the autumnal equinox here but this time, nearly after 20 years, the phenomenon has coincided with the harvest moon

Nana...I can't begin to know, can only imagine, what any family goes through with a missing loved one....it's a club no one wants to belong to :smt056

Agree!

Hi, Sunny!

LOL! A harvest moon to beat! Hahaha!
http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20100923/september-equinox-2010-harvest-moon-jupiter-usher-autumn-id-10129387.html

Harvest moon, Jupiter mesmerize sky watchers
Not only is the autumnal equinox here but this time, nearly after 20 years, the phenomenon has coincided with the harvest moon

Agree!
Hi, Sunny!

Thanks to all of you for support and compassion. I am so glad I was allowed to become a part of this huge Monkey Heart!    ::MonkeyKiss2::

Thanks to all of you for support and compassion. I am so glad I was allowed to become a part of this huge Monkey Heart!    ::MonkeyKiss2::

Nana, I am so sorry about your niece.  :(

Rose petals, Nana.  Does that make sense to you?  A hand full of rose petals?


Darla, Oregon LE doesn't like Harry, because he found bodies they couldn't find.  That's posted on this thread in several places.  Plus, only Kaine knew Harry was trying to get a scent article.  Evidently Desiree was not aware of it.

screwed that up.....Sassifrass, you claim this is your first time on a forum....Well this is not the way to do it. You do not have the floor.

LE and the family have enough to deal with, with Kyron missing, without "some " one on a forum bugging the hell out of them with their crazy theories. HOW do you know Harry got a death scent from the property ...his say-so? There is a reason why no LE wants to be involved with him.
If you are trying to keep their hope alive , why then the big hellabaloo over getting Harry in there to find a death scent. Uh that kind of negates the theory that Kyron is alive.
And you come in here bashing Monkeys for talking about you on other forum, maybe you should go back and read all of your post since you joined. But I think you know that...since you have been a member here before.
Did you really think that Monkeys were going to let your post go? Without replying? Get over yourself. You are just making a total ass of yourself.
And I never begged you stay before and surely not going to do it now.

Nana, I am so sorry about your niece.  :(

Rose petals, Nana.  Does that make sense to you?  A hand full of rose petals?


Darla, Oregon LE doesn't like Harry, because he found bodies they couldn't find.  That's posted on this thread in several places.  Plus, only Kaine knew Harry was trying to get a scent article.  Evidently Desiree was not aware of it.

I have learned over the years not to believe most of what is posted on a forum. I'd love to see some documentation from the Oregon LE as to why they don't 'like' HO...if in fact that is true.  Or do they not trust him? Perhap he has over stepped boundaries in the past?  Where does this information come from?  Just because it is posted here or any other forum doesn't mean it is in fact...a FACTm or even truthful.

Has Kaine said he alone was aware of HO trying to get a scent article?  Has he said why he will not turn over what HO desires?  Let's remember the investigation is being run by professionals...by people who put their lives on the line each and every time they walk out in the streets....do we think they don't want to find Kyron and/or find out who harmed him? I shouldn't be, but am continually amazed, at what some people will go to, will say just to be a part of a tragedy such as this....

Sassi,

I'm sorry things didn't work out for you working with HO.  And I'm sorry to know that there are monkeys running amok among other forums talking about any other monkey.  Usually I read at other forums, haven't in a long awhile, so haven't seen this myself.  We monkeys tend to have better manners than that, so this isn't good form at all, IMO. 

I've also worked with HO before, know well the frustration that can come with doing that.  There are some folks who do not like him, and some folks who do.  None of us can sway folks one way or the other.  When something happens, those who like him, like him even more... and those who don't like him, despise him even more.  That's how it seems to me anyway.  I'm done with trying to explain his good intentions to those who do not wish to hear it, or understand them.  It's too dang frustrating. 

You've tried a good thing, and I admire you for that.  Whether or not what you tried worked out isn't the important thing.  What's important is that you tried, for Kyron's sake, and there was good that came of it. 

If there's something more (involving monkeys) going on behind the scenes, that we monkeys not involved don't know about, please let Klaas help you work that out with those monkeys.  She's good at helping like that.  Please don't burn bridges with the rest of us in here, then run away.  Take a break if you need that (I've had to, many of us have needed to), then come back even stronger for having done so.   

Hugs and understanding your frustration.....  ::MonkeyAngel::

Harry's answers:

Question: Is it true Terri purchased a shovel a day or two prior to Kyron's disappearance, and paid cash for it when she would have normally paid with a credit card?

RUMOR Has it that is true. This came from a credible person close to  the case.

Question: Has LE used their dogs to search the Horman property?

YES but again that doesn't mean squat to us. They used the same dogs on many cases and told the families The victim wasn't there and we've gone in and found them in the original search area.
Ashley Pond Miranda Gaddis for example.
many others listed on our web site.

BTW, this is true! I lived a few blocks from this and saw everything go down. Even the FBI xray machines couldn't find them, but Harry's dogs did.

::MonkeyShocked::

You can call me naive, for sure.  I had no idea that we Monkeys could abandon one profile and come back under another.  Is that what you are saying, darla?  How mysterious...  So, if I make a big mess and really step in it as "Desi," does that mean I can think up a new persona and just rejoin as a "new" Monkey?  Voila, back in business, just like that?  Can banned Monkeys resurrect themselves as someone new and rejoin, too?

I have been blissfully ignorant if my Monkey friends have indeed been playing "musical profiles" all this time.  I think I may be suffering from a little disillusionment here.  Am I understanding this correctly?

Sorry for O/T, and sorry if this question is not appropriate.

Yes Desi it is possible to reinvent and come back as a new monkey. Klaas would have to explain about a proxy IP, as I know nothing about how to do it. But if you pay close attention , you will find some former members.

sackyattack, what in the world does this mean?    i am sick of monkeys jumping on the hot trail of the "biotch terri made kyron sleep in his own piss", which is totally unsubstiantiated and attacking anyone that honestly tries through documented truths to uncover clues to kyron hormans wherabouts.   ::MonkeyEek::Where does, Terri made Kyron sleep in his own p!ss come from? And who is stopping anyone who is uncovering clues to Kyron's whereabouts?

Nana...I can't begin to know, can only imagine, what any family goes through with a missing loved one....it's a club no one wants to belong to :smt056

sackyattack, what in the world does this mean?    i am sick of monkeys jumping on the hot trail of the "biotch terri made kyron sleep in his own piss", which is totally unsubstiantiated and attacking anyone that honestly tries through documented truths to uncover clues to kyron hormans wherabouts.   ::MonkeyEek::  Where does, Terri made Kyron sleep in his own p!ss come from? And who is stopping anyone who is uncovering clues to Kyron's whereabouts?

no rose colored glasses, I wouldn't worry a lot about it.  I think it's best just to let it go.  JMHO

Self edit to add jmho

TM I think it's a good thing you restarted this. I also am not such a HO fan as before because of his blog. His timing was wrong. Then I saw a post from Nana29 about some FB page taking his fight to the press? WTH is that? I never knew about it until she posted it. It's absolutely ridiculous IMO.

He has the skills, but his aggressive behavior is horrible. Maybe he needs a PR firm? JMO.

Klaas, I didn't mean to start a new topic.  I was posting this in Kyron's discussion, and then it said I was not logged in.  When I logged back in, it was still in posting mode, so I rewrote it and posted again...then all of a sudden there was a whole new thread.   If you want to keep the post, maybe you can stick it on the end of the closed thread, but I would be happy to delete this thread that I didn't mean to start.

All I was trying to get across with this post was to show that maybe now we know why so many do not want to work with Harry Oakes...it is his attitude that is the turn off.  Only a comment that does not request a reply.

TM I think it's a good thing you restarted this. I also am not such a HO fan as before because of his blog. His timing was wrong. Then I saw a post from Nana29 about some FB page taking his fight to the press? WTH is that? I never knew about it until she posted it. It's absolutely ridiculous IMO.

He has the skills, but his aggressive behavior is horrible. Maybe he needs a PR firm? JMO.

[
Hello TnMuse & Monkeys!

Hmmm.... me thinks this is some strange magic and that this thread was meant to be!  Probably a lot of us could use a safe space to blow off steam re:  HO.

I know I need to sort some things out regarding him. 

So.... thanks for the happy accident & thanks to Klaas for the opportunity!  I need a place to wipe my paws of some of this mess.
Cheers,
K. Cat.   ::MonkeyTongue::

::MonkeyKiss::  KC...Right on!   You put some of my thoughts onto the wall. Most especially  the

"Then, he comes out of the blue with this rabid BS that, at times, seems to be totally counterproductive and/or DIFFERENT from whatever he said before.  (Wish I could be more specific, but don't think I should, yet.)"

Like his left brain forgot to listen to his right brain!    ::MonkeyDevil::

Tn    ::MonkeyCheer4::   Way to go on this thread, I think it is here for a reason.   

Sasssi!   Yay! You came back!    ::MonkeySlide::   I am not sure what happened, and it doesn't matter...we love ya and I for one am happy to see you again!

In case anyone might want to read some of the prior posts on Friends 4Kyron ( ::MonkeyShocked:: on some and  ::MonkeyHaHa:: on some others)
here is the link to the page. There is quite a bit in some of their discussions about HO and a lot of odd rants...
This morning I see they posted translations of his missing info. Ther is also a new disscssion thread re some "info sent to MCSO'. They posted a link to a FB page with pictures...IMO, taken way out of context


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Friends-4-Kyron/132208513481277#!/pages/Friends-4-Kyron/132208513481277

Sassi, I have been trying to find you!  I posted over at Friends.4.Kyron, because I thought you belonged to that group.  I have a message for you from someone you had mentioned before, but I can't put it on here. 

Please contact me at ccat444@gmail.com.  Thanks!

Harry just posted on his FB page about his dogs alerting on the death scent near the Horman property.  I wonder if he has been back.  He said MCSO has been advised.  Someone has asked him if he is speaking of the past when his dogs alerted before.  I will be interested in seeing if this is a more recent search.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1021431403&ref=sgm

We have verified now, more than three times- through written and oral communication to and from Harry Oakes that Harry's search team of dogs has definitely pointed to a death that either occurred on the Horman property (or very close to the Horman Property) , or is now buried on the Horman property- one or the other.

Because Harry Oakes is a professional, Harry obtained three separate search team dogs, different sources- that all point to either a death occurred on the Horman property or there is a dead human on the Horman propertyor very close to the Horman property. This has been verified through THREE different search dog team efforts. . .

Well, as you know from being a witness to it yourself, Harry's dogs have alerted to death scent before where LE had already searched with dogs, and he found bodies. 

If LE doesn't do another very careful search, with Harry's help, we may never know whose body is in that area!

Sassi, when you were in contact with Desiree's family member, did they know that Harry's dogs had alerted to death scent on the Horman property?  I can't remember. 

Thanks, Sassi!  I understand why they would hope that, but the odds are against them.  :(

So, after the presser with DH, you can see why she would not want to support any outside help from groups or individuals that may prove or suspect, that Kyron is not alive. A big part of me understands why she and Kaine have ignored HO requests.

They are heavily relying on LE with answers, and that's the path they chose. I don't believe for one moment that they don't have something from LE that backs up their beliefs.

So having said that, I think HO should back off the family right now. There may be a body near the Hormans residence, but that may be a matter that will have to be dealt with at a later time. Right now is not the time. JMO.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Sassifrass - not sure what to do about this thread.  To be honest, I don't care for Harry's tone.  I don't condone what Harry is saying. 

I need to make it clear I don't as Administrator of Scared Monkeys condone what Harry is saying/doing. 

Wednesday, October 06, 2010
   
Good Bye Little Kyron. I'm done with this search.

Category: Blogging

Dear Kyron

10-06-2010

You don’t know me but let me introduce myself to you.

My name is Harry Oakes. I’m a private search and rescue coordinator and dog handler who has volunteered his time to try to bring you home to your family.

Why am I writing you this letter? So I can put some kind of closure on one of the most messed up SAR cases I’ve ever been involved with in the last 38 years.

Kyron when a person, child or adult, goes missing, it’s law enforcements sworn duty to do everything they can within their legal power to determine what happened to that missing person. Did the victim walk away on his or her own power? Were they kidnapped?
Are they dead or alive?

We try to determine the facts. Who, What, When, Why, Where, and How and find the evidence to support our findings to bring closure on each persons case.

Before I go any further, please let me tell you about my background.

In 1972 I was involved heavy in the Boy scouts and joined the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Department’s Law Enforcement explorer program #900. We were taught all aspects of law enforcement, investigations, report writing, crime scene investigation, court procedures, and search and rescue.

I was the first LE Explorer cadet to ever graduate from an adult police academy with a Board on Police Standards and Training (BPST) basic certification, completing the 310 required hours of the academy through MCSO, graduating in March 1974.

Unfortunately I wasn’t 21 years old so I couldn’t carry a side arm. But the training and certification was still and is still valid. Anyway, I decided to serve my country so I joined the US Army and went through their Federal Military Police Academy and graduated at Fort Gordon, GA Dec. 1974. Then I was assigned to the 7th Division combat MP Company.

My second duty station was overseas where I was cross- trained as an EMT. Having seen some of my fellow soldiers die, I thought the medical training; along with my SAR and L.E. training might make a difference.

When I got out of the Army in 1977, I became a sworn police officer and worked full time, and also as reserve LE officer in various agencies. I also taught for the police academy to a variety of law enforcement agencies.

In 1983, after four budget cuts and two divorces, I quit my LE career and changed it over to SAR. (Search and rescue). Why am I telling you all of this? So you know I’m not just some smuck off the streets who has been looking for you.

In 1979, I coordinated Search and Rescue for Morrow Co. Sheriff’s Dept. while I worked there. I worked some helicopter and ground SAR cases while serving overseas in the Army 1974-1977. I was a team leader and co-instructor while an active member of Portland Mountain Rescue from 1986 to 1994.

I co-founded the search dog program for the State of Oregon in 1986 and volunteered my skills until 1997 when I quit the non-profit volunteer world and turned the SAR team into a professional for profit K9 SAR team.

Kyron, I’ve worked over 8,100 search requests from 1986 to date. Each one documented. I’m considered an expert witness regarding search and rescue, K9 training, testing, and certification, as well as in all aspects of Search and Rescue. Our government has used my expertise around the world on hundreds of cases.

Disasters such as bombing, kidnappings, earthquakes, floods, fires, hurricanes, tornados, and other cases where my expertise brought closure to the victim’s cases and for their families when they needed closure.

Back when I volunteered my time in search and rescue, I saw many innocent people die needlessly to include children because certain Law enforcement agencies wouldn’t use their resources properly.

Having worked so many cases and knowing how to coordinate all the different resources, I tried my best to educate the agencies. It finally came down to where I testified against them in the Ore. Legislature on HB 3093 in 1994, and I was then officially removed as one of the “Good Old Boy’s” and told, ”I would never be used again in an official search on behalf of the Sheriff’s department since I testified against them”. Even though my testimony and the HB 3093 was supported by the Oregon Mountain Rescue Council, the Oregon State Police, The Oregon Firefighters Association and the Civil Air Patrol, the Oregon State Sheriff’s Association removed me from the call out list.

I remained focused on why I got involved in search and rescue. To help others in their time of need, “So others may live”. It wasn’t long after I went private that more and more calls kept coming in from families missing their loved ones. They were frustrated with the sheriff’s departments not finding their loved ones. I now average between 350 and 750 calls per year. I have trained over 6,500 search dog teams around the world. We average a 97% success rate at either finding the victim or finding out what happened to them. Dead or alive.

This has a tendency of embarrassing “The good old boy’s”. When they tell the families of the missing that they can’t find their loved ones, and the families call us in privately and work with us. We often have found the victim in the original search area unfortunately dead, but at least it brought closure to their family and friends.

This makes for some hard feelings from the sheriff’s departments. It would be one thing if this happened now and then. But when our teams found 9 different victims dead in the original search areas in one year, then something is very wrong.

So when you came up missing and I heard about it on the news and through the over 1,300 emails from the general public asking for my help on your case, my heart sank.

Being a father, and grandfather, my heart went out to you and your family, as I know exactly what they are going through. Having gone through this myself in each and every search I coordinated for the families of the missing victims over the years. And as a father when my own son was missing for 30 days down in Mexico. I understand the pain of not knowing if my loved one was dead or alive, if they were suffering, etc.

In your case, I waited for over a month and watched as MCSO and the FBI tried to bring resolve to your case. It didn’t happen. With everyone screaming at me because of my experience to get involved and try to find you, after 30 days of watching from afar, I finally said, OK. I’ll do my best.

Normally what happens when a child is missing and I’m asked to get involved privately, the victim’s family signs a contract for services agreement as we are a for profit business that specializes in finding the missing. Then I interview the family and friends, build up a missing person’s profile and I obtain a scent article. I often do the search whether they can afford my fees or not. In this case your family nor has the sheriff’s office paid me a single penny to try to find you.

I go to the point last seen, I introduce the victim’s scent article to my search dog or search dog teams, and then the search dog(s) show me what’s really happened to the missing person. Which way they walked, if they were ok or upset, and if they were killed, where that happened, and at times we’ve identified who the victim was killed by, with the transfer of the victim(s) scent onto the suspect(s) involved. This has held up in the courtroom and is 100% admissible in the courtroom.

Unfortunately in your case, MCSO and your own family refused to cooperate with our private search efforts. Your family refused to return the many email requests and telephone request from various people trying to get me something that had your scent on it so I could do the best job I could to find your or find out what really happened to you and who was involved in your disappearance.

So instead of giving up, I worked a different search method. This method takes a lot longer and is far less accurate in finding the missing. I usually only reserve this search method when I am working disasters where I don’t have time to obtain a scent article.

But when I’m looking for one specific scent of one person, I have less then a 3% chance of success without a scent article.

So after working over 240 hours on your case, donating my own time, my own money, and my search efforts to find you, only to get bad mouthed by many folks for trying to find you. I’ve decided I can’t do this any more. Remember I do this for a living, and some folks just don’t understand this.

I ended donating over $44,000.00 dollars of my services and after four months of searching for you, and your family and MCSO still refusing to help me find you, I’m saying Goodbye.

I gave it my best shot, being hindered the whole way by stupidity, politics, and egos.

I never once saw the people who were bad mouthing me trying to find you, I never saw them standing by my side searching for you or taking over 240 work hours off of their own paid jobs, with no pay, to try to find you. But I was there. Along with some very wonderful volunteers. Mothers and fathers, fellow search dog handlers and their dogs. All just trying to bring you home.

The one person with the reputation, skills, and documentation of 25 years of success with the K9 services, the one person that had the best chance of finding you or at least finding out what really happened to you, has reached an impasse. That one person is I.

Kyron, it’s with a heavy heart that I say, “I’m sorry, I’ve done everything within my power and resources to find you. But because of your family and MCSO, Kyron they wont help me help them find you, and because of this I’m done”.  I have to get back to my paid work and the many other cases I’ve been asked to be a part of. For families who truly want some honest answers and closure in their loved ones cases.

Maybe someday down the road someone will pull their head out of their Asses and give me the proper tools to do my job to bring closure on your case. Until then I pray that God’s angels watch over you.

Goodbye Little Kyron.
Respectfully
Harry Oakes

International K9 Search and Rescue Services

www.k9sardog.com

Read more: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=127939120&blogId=539719106#ixzz11k9j5QAE

I don't understand this with Harry Oakes. What have I missed? Why wouldn't a family member give him an article of Kyron's clothes???

Many police departments don’t like him, says Oakes, and don’t use him. But in this case he waived his fee, did some background work, showed the dog some of Ashley’s clothing, and went to work.

    Harry Oakes, private investigator: The track led from the apartment complex up the road, the staircase, to Ward’s property.

That name again.

Harry, with his Valerie now excited and on the chase, knocked at Weaver’s door and asked for permission to search the house.

    Harry Oakes: He said, “I don’t have any problem with you searching, they’ve already brought in 7 different search dog teams. I have nothing to hide.” During the search of the house she gave me a death alert of Ashley’s scent in Ward’s hallway.

    Morrison: Did Valerie alert anywhere else?

    Oakes: Yes. When we went outside to the back area, there was a slab that had been poured.

    Morrison: A concrete slab?

    Oakes: A concrete slab. And where the slab met with the grass, the dirt where they came together, my dog was smelling Ashley’s scent coming out of there.

    Morrison: Did you call 911?

    Oakes: I made a report and turned it into Oregon City police department.

A record of Harry’s report shows it was indeed turned in to police on March 20th, less than two weeks after Miranda disappeared.

    Morrison: Was there any reaction from the police?

    Oakes: They basically ignored us.

    Morrison: What about the FBI?

    Oakes: Ignored us.

Dear CBB:
   It's politics and egos.  Turf.  FUBAR. It's happened countless times, it's just that Kyron is one of the most high profile in a long time.  (Ashley Pond, Miranda Gaddis and Jane Doe, in Oregon City, before Ky).
   I was hoping Kyron would/will make a difference in this political morass that is SAR in Oregon.  I still hope for that.  I think Kyron's disappearance could help others who have the misfortune to go missing here. 
   There are so many links, so many stories.  But, at the end of the day, if my child were missing?  I would kill anyone who stood between Harry and me and a scent article. 
   DY's husband is a cop in So. Oregon.  They hate Harry there.  They hate him everywhere.  But, would I care?
   Nope. 
   Here are some helpful links:
http://kyronhorman.blogspot.com/2010/06/politics-and-egos-search-for-kyron.html (http://kyronhorman.blogspot.com/2010/06/politics-and-egos-search-for-kyron.html)
 http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.0 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.0)
http://www.k9sardog.com/ (http://www.k9sardog.com/)

::MonkeyWaa::

Harry Oakes has officially quit Kyron's case due to the hopelessness of the situation WITHOUT THE PARENTS GIVING HIM A SCENT ARTICLE.
Now that LE has scaled back to a task force... a task force that is shrinking by the minute... why would they not accept help from one of two people in the world who may have found Kyron?  For free. 
I feel like I've gotten a glimpse into the pit of Hell with these people.  Heart wrenching, disgusting, infuriating.  But, apparently nothing that MORE MONEY couldn't fix, according to DY.
 ::MonkeyShocked::
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=127939120&blogId=539719106 (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=127939120&blogId=539719106)

But it wasn't for "free"....he has collected some money, and make no mistake, he has not missed a single opportunity to rant about how much he has donated in "free services". He is unrelaible, shady, and not well tolerated locally. Plus, he appears confused, as he isn't even sure when he graduated....

On his profile he said he graduated from high school in 1976. On his blog he said he joined the army in 1974. This was copied of his Myspace profile.

His profile timeline-

•Portland Community College
Portland,OR
Graduated: 1983
Student status: Alumni
Degree: Professional
Major: EMT- 2
Minor: EMT-1

1981 to 1983•Monterey Peninsula College
Monterey,CA
Graduated: N/A
Student status: Alumni
Degree: Professional
Major: Criminal Justice
Minor: Forensic Evidence.
Clubs: Tae Kwon Do

1974 to 1976•Parkrose High School
Portland,OR
Graduated: 1976
Student status: Alumni
Degree: High School Diploma
Major: Girls 101, Science.
Minor: Girls 101, Biology
Clubs: Video Geek, Letter in wrestling.

Read more: http://www.myspace.com/127939120#ixzz11ehwkobn

His blog timeline-


Unfortunately I wasn’t 21 years old so I couldn’t carry a side arm. But the training and certification was still and is still valid. Anyway, I decided to serve my country so I joined the US Army and went through their Federal Military Police Academy and graduated at Fort Gordon, GA Dec. 1974. Then I was assigned to the 7th Division combat MP Company.
Read more: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=127939120&blogId=539719106#ixzz11eigu9Hk

Unfortunately it is impossible to know if Kyron will ever be found.  ::MonkeyNoNo::
Nobody knows what TH would have done regarding visitation.
Why do you feel she is not safe with Kaine?

 ::MonkeyJnBox::

No.  I know this: Kyron WILL never be found because Harry has quit looking. If he had a scent article?  He would be found.  It's simple. 

Because he would start at the Horman's property.  Where his dogs have given a death alert on at least four separate occasions.  It could be someone else's kid, though.  No problem. 

Sounds like a great place to spend the night!  Knowing what I just told you, would you let your kids stay there?  Would you stay there? 

Halloween IS coming.  But, KH's residence is getting a little too "into the spirit of things" if you catch my drift.... God knows Harry's dogs did.

 ::MonkeyWitch1::

Thanks for the response and links!
If ANYONE approached me for an article of clothing of my missing child, and had a proven record of finding the missing, I'd empty my child's closet, and scratch out the eyes of anyone trying to stop me. Nothing else would matter. JMO.

Sweet.

 ::monkeywine2::

It would be worth it, though, as long as my posts weren't deleted.

And, if I were banned for speaking the truth for Kyron?  Why in Hell would I wanna hang out here anyway?  I thought I'd seen the slimy underbelly before, but I guess it's creeped farther than I thought.

Forgive me, I must have been mistaken when I thought I could find respite and truth here among the monkeys. 

I'm curious though, why are YOU here?  Clearly it's not for Kyron.  Or, because you seek the truth. 

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Sweet.

 ::monkeywine2::

It would be worth it, though, as long as my posts weren't deleted.

And, if I were banned for speaking the truth for Kyron?  Why in Hell would I wanna hang out here anyway?  I thought I'd seen the slimy underbelly before, but I guess it's creeped farther than I thought.

Forgive me, I must have been mistaken when I thought I could find respite and truth here among the monkeys. 

I'm curious though, why are YOU here?  Clearly it's not for Kyron.  Or, because you seek the truth. 

 ::MonkeyAngel::

KoKo, I by NO means intend any disrespect. You like Harry, I don't. You trust him, I don't.  That's OK, we are allowed to differ in our opinions. Why else would any of us bother to post? I like to hear what others think, it enables my mind to  He was soliciting cash donations in June via his MySpace & facebook pages, and he did indeed receive money via PayPal donations.
 Not a lot, but a few hundred dollars as I recall. I can direct you to look at local peoples facebook and or myspace pages, and would PM you the sites that have requested the donations. If you start with Missing Kyron Horman, or Kyron Horman Open Discussion on FB, you can go from there.  That is in fact the truth. I have no reason to make it up.

As far as slander and or libel, everything I said is in fact provable.

Harry himself is the one who wrote his bio, on HIS blog. He is the one who says he attended Parkrose High School form 1974 thru 1976, but also says he joined the military in 1974.

I could honestly not care less about H.O. , but make no mistake, I am here because of my love for Kyron. I don't doubt that of you either, I can see you are passionate about him. We all are. Everything else is a distraction, like a magazine in the waiting room, simply to pass the time.

javascript:void(0); ::HelloKitty::

why does Harry need a scent article when he said that his dogs have gotten a death scent?  does it matter who the death scent is coming from?

I'm sorry, but did you just suggest to me that not only are Kyron's remains on the Horman property but also those of another child???  Is that YOUR truth???

What FACTS do you base that on?

I AM here to seek the truth, whatever it may be.  Kaine is Kyron's father, it is his choice.  If you do not agree with him, fine. 

You want people to respect your opinions, but you did not respect mine.  Hence your overuse of monkey icons. 

He doesn't need a scent article from the parents to find a body. That's just Harry Oaks blowing smoke. He's a nut job IMHO. Kaine and Desiree are right to stay far away from him because he has no credibility.


http://www.ilpwda.com/faqs.htm

With all due respect (note: no new monkey icons!) without the scent article we will never know whose remains are on that property.  It could be anyone. 

This has all been reported to LE.  The reports are a matter of public record. 

I really mean no disrespect.  I'm just frustrated.  I do apologize for my sarcasm and monkey icons.

Don't the death alerts bother you though?  I want your opinion, truly.

Thank you for apologizing.  I'd like to think LE would check out anything of that nature.  Wasn't there a body found in water not far from the Horman property?  I could be wrong, but I thought I read that here and it was suggested that could be the death scent the dogs picked up.  IDK.

Thank you for apologizing.  I'd like to think LE would check out anything of that nature.  Wasn't there a body found in water not far from the Horman property?  I could be wrong, but I thought I read that here and it was suggested that could be the death scent the dogs picked up.  IDK.

Thank you for apologizing.  I'd like to think LE would check out anything of that nature.  Wasn't there a body found in water not far from the Horman property?  I could be wrong, but I thought I read that here and it was suggested that could be the death scent the dogs picked up.  IDK.

Good night, Monchichi.

I will repeat this. No scent article is needed to locate a body. The dogs are trained to find any deceased person. The scent is NOT SPECIFIC to a certain person. Once a body is found, it can be identified. They do not need a person's clothing to find that person's body. 


http://www.ilpwda.com/faqs.htm

Let's please keep this thread civil and on topic, with the topic being Kyron Horman.  We have hashed and rehashed Harry Oakes merits and frailties in Kyron's forum and the two Harry Oakes threads that are currently locked.  Let's not trot the Harry Oakes pros and cons out for discussion again, since all it seems to be is an endless debate.  (http://bestsmileys.com/oneofakind/1.gif) 

MB i didnt know you had locked both threads, i found this, so could you put it
in one of oakes threads please, its about that HB 3093, harry refers to
then you could just delete this post if you want to TY

http://www.sos.state.or.us/archives/legislative/legislativeminutes/1991/house/state_fed/hse_state_fed_04_05_91.txt