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 Dan Tilkin reports that Mike Cook tells him court papers are wrong, that he did not have sex with Terri Horman, just exchngd "sexting" msgs.     less than 5 seconds ago  via web 


http://twitter.com/KOIN_Local_6

#    UPDATES from COURTROOM: Horman divorce proceedings; ruling to come at 1:30 on divorce abatement - http://t.co/U6ZwyyK     about 1 hour ago  via Tweet Button

# Divorce abatement is over; ruling to come at 1:30 p.m. Check back with koinlocal6.com for all the details about 1 hour ago via web

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

(http://media.katu.com/images/TerriAP405.jpg)

Live notes from the Horman's court appearance

Originally printed at http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html
By Dan Tilkin, KATU News October 7, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. - Terri Horman, stepmother to missing 8-year-old Kyron Horman, is in court with her estranged husband, Kaine Horman, to hash out their divorce proceedings and other issues.

KATU News reporter Dan Tilkin is in the newsroom and is sending real-time dispatches to KATU.com.

    * Follow the Kyron Horman missing child case

Here is what Dan has sent so far. NOTE: Newest posts appear at the top. We are updating this story as posts arrive at KATU.com:

11:50: Dan Tilkin reports that he talked with Mike Cook and Cook told him that court papaers were wrong, that he did not have sex with Terri Horman, but they did exchange "sexting" cell phone messages.

11:33: Terri and Kaine have left the courtroom but KATU reporter Anita Kissee says an attorney has told her the proceeding will resume after 1:30 p.m. and may run until 5 p.m. As Kaine Horman left, he responded to questions by saying he could not comment. Unknown if both Terri and Kaine will return to the courtroom today. Watch for updates.

11: 20 Court has adjourned. Judge Meisenheimer says he will rule on abatement issue at 1:30.  Then they will take up "Suit Money" issue: Where did Terri Horman get the $350k to hire her lawyers?

11:18 a.m. Peter Bunch says this is the most complex case he’s encountered in Family Law.

11:17 a.m.: Peter Bunch: says Kaine’s lawyer has mounds of information from the investigation: “It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.”

11: 15 a.m.: Peter Bunch:  “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.”
“If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
“We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”

10:45 am: Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman's Divorce Lawyer: “Mrs. Horman’s request for abatement serves her self interest over what is best for the children. Kiara and Kryon deserve to have what’s best for them, which is timely resolution."
“Mrs. Horman doesn’t state anywhere that her request is what’s best for the children.”

Mike Cook is outside the courtroom. He received a subpoena to testify. Cook is a high school friend of Kaine Horman's. Court records say he began a sexual relationship with Terri Horman shortly after Kaine Horman moved out of their house 22 days after Kyron disappeared.

Neither Terri Horman or Kaine Horman are wearing their wedding Rings. At the last court hearing in August, Terri was wearing a band on her ring finger. Court is now taking 15 minute recess.

Bunch says If judge abates (delays divorce case), he will ask for restraining order changed to allow some visitation. “It’s not in Kiara’s interest to not have contact with her mother… she’s not interested in abandoning her child.”

Peter Bunch said he's asked for Terri Horman calls to 9-1-1, back to Dec 26th.  But was denied by Sheriff's office saying it's part of "ongoing Investigation." He's tried to serve the landscaper, Rudy Sanchez with subpoena for deposition, but prosecutors wouldn't give him contact information because of the "ongoing investigation."  Bunch said Terri called 911 when Sanchez showed up at her house wired "trying to talk to about something".  He also said Rudy Sanchez is an AKA (alias).

Peter Bunch: “She will stipulate to an immediate divorce. If Mr. Horman wants to divide everything today, we’ll do that.”
“She’ll agree to defer the issue of future support.”
“The delay to Mr. Horman if any can be substantially mitigated.”

Peter Bunch: “The danger to her is neither fanciful or imagined. There is no doubt she is in the cross hairs of the investigation.”

Peter Bunch, Terri's Divorce Attorney: “There is no doubt, whatsoever Miss Horman is the focus of the investigation.”

This is the first time they have been in same room since Kaine moved out in late June after learning of murder for hire plot as far as we know.

Sorry about the late thread change  ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyWitch1::

Trick or Treat, Monkeys! ? !

Reporters are tweeting from the courtroom, I assume:


http://twitter.com/KOIN_Local_6 (http://twitter.com/KOIN_Local_6)

I am pretty sure that grandmas do NOT have to apologize.  (special status, donchaknow)
 ::MonkeyAngel::

http://www.kptv.com/news/25317391/detail.html

(http://www.kptv.com/2010/1007/25317735_320X240.jpg)

Terri Horman Willing To Move Forward With Divorce

POSTED: 11:13 am PDT October 7, 2010
UPDATED: 11:44 am PDT October 7, 2010
f
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Terri Horman’s attorney argued Thursday that the divorce case involving her estranged husband and the ongoing criminal investigation into her stepson’s disappearance creates an issue of self-incrimination for her.

Peter Bunch said Terri Horman is prepared to work out the details of the divorce and divide the couple’s property, but she still wants the court to put the custody portion of the divorce case on hold until the criminal investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance is complete.

Kyron has not been seen since June 4 at Skyline School in northwest Portland. He vanished from the school after a science fair.

Terri Horman and her estranged husband, Kaine Horman, did not appear to make any eye contact upon walking into the courtroom and sitting down Thursday morning.

Bunch said Terri Horman is no doubt the focus of the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance. He said any testimony or questions about finances that will come up during the divorce proceedings may be used against her by investigators.

He argued the situation would ultimately impose on Terri Horman’s constitutional rights. Judge Keith Meisenheimer agreed it would be difficult for the court to hold a normal custody study.

Bunch also made a request for Terri Horman to have parenting time with her young daughter in a safe and supervised setting. Currently, she is under a no contact order by the court after a divorce and restraining order filing by Kaine Horman in June.

In court documents, Kaine Horman said police told him there was probable cause that his wife was involved in Kyron’s disappearance. He also said in the court filing that Terri Horman was involved in a murder-for-hire plot against him.

The judge’s clerk expects the divorce hearing to continue throughout Thursday.

Maybe the court papers say MC did have sex with Terri... and, if the papers say that, then Kaine must have some kind of proof that she did.

Wouldn't that by something if MC is proved wrong? If he's lying about that, then what else he could be lying about?

I think Mike just wants to make triple-sure that no one gets the wrong impression.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/terri_horman_willing_to_agree.html

(http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/lead/img/portland_impact/photo/8946691-large.jpg)

Terri Horman willing to agree to immediate divorce, with delay in settling custody to avoid self-incrimination
Published: Thursday, October 07, 2010, 11:30 AM     Updated: Thursday, October 07, 2010, 12:46 PM

Terri Moulton Horman and Kaine Horman met in family law court for the first time today since Kaine Horman filed for divorce and obtained a restraining order against his wife.

Terri Horman's divorce attorney, Peter Bunch, asked the judge to hold the divorce proceedings in abatement while the criminal inquiry proceeds, but Kaine Horman's attorney is fighting any delay.
 ::monkeyscissors::

(http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/e/6/6/e660bc15-4e54-41fd-b9e9-1d869c562ee4/Original.jpg)

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Judge-to-rule-on-Horman-divorce-abatement-at-1-30/GonG6-VnTkmaYBikdxxq7Q.cspx (http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Judge-to-rule-on-Horman-divorce-abatement-at-1-30/GonG6-VnTkmaYBikdxxq7Q.cspx)


Judge to rule on Horman divorce abatement at 1:30 p.m.

Published: 6:31 am
Last Update: 12:59 pm

After a brief recess, Kaine Horman's attorney - Laura Rackner - argued that the divorce should proceed without abatement.

"If this case goes to trial now, a year from now, or two years from now it will get just as much publicity," said Rackner.

She went on to say that the reason for the publicity has nothing to do with Kaine Horman, but that it was brought on by Terri.

"It has nothing to do with Mr. Horman's conduct, it has to do with Mrs. Horman's conduct -- she's brought that to the case," Rackner said.

 ::monkeyscissors::

Maybe they were "cybersexing".

As many of you know, (  ::MonkeyDevil:: ) cybersexing involves having sex through an internet connection.

I tell yah! People have the potential to do pure amazing things to advance the human race to the utmost scientific and technological breakthroughs using the power only computers can muster, yet (somehow) they eventually find the way to use that power for the lowliest, most depraved, and self-serving uses.

 ::MonkeyGavel::
Klaas!  Thanks for the updates!
 ::monkeywine2::

Geez, I guess that I'm behind the times with these things.

 ::MonkeySlide::

Hey Monks!  Any videos?  I really want to see facial expressions!

Also, glad to see that it looks like KH is wearing a dress shirt.  The only other picture I saw of him he was REALLY casually dressed (Tee shirt, shorts) which seemed really strange to me.  (I thought they were pics from today, but must have been history...)

 ::MonkeyGavel::

Well said, IM.

 ::MonkeyDevil::
I guess if I can take Tai Chi online (check. done.) Theoretically, I could.... do almost anything online.
 ::piggy:: 

My vote is the delay to be granted and Terri be awarded visitation. Until this is all cleared up, I hope the judge awards SUPERVISED visitation and no over nights. Thinking back to all of the crazy rulings I have read about I pray this judge uses common sense in his decision today.

Question being if having "sex" over an internet connection or cellphone could be basis for a divorce, and whether it constitutes adultery.

:D

In my house it would be basis for a divorce! That is if either I or my husband did that. I don't think it is adultery in the sense of the word though. I do believe it shows that adultery is possible.

Channel 8 news video:

http://www.kgw.com/video?id=104487169&sec=547787 (http://www.kgw.com/video?id=104487169&sec=547787)

Anyone know what channels may be covering this live at 1:30?

thanks...

Oregon is a "no fault" state for divorce.  Meaning:  you don't have to have a good reason.  You can "just do it".  Sorry.  Nike was also founded in Oregon!

 ::MonkeyDevil::

Just a few more minutes....The suspence! I am so worried about the visitation...

http://twitter.com/KOIN_Local_6

Substantial overlap in the issues of evidence - Kaine Horman will undoubtedly present evidence that may damage Terri criminally

Substantial overlap in the issues of evidence - Kaine Horman will undoubtedly present evidence that may damage Terri criminally

http://twitter.com/koin_local_6

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Yeah... the judge has got to abate it, IMO.

http://twitter.com/KOIN_Local_6

Judge: Kaine finds himself in a parent's worst nightmare, indeed a human being's worst nightmare

Very true

Court proceeding have resumed between Terri and Kaine Horman. Follow live notes here: http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

http://twitter.com/KATUNews

Yes, I agree

My daughter will be picking me up any minute ... I hope the outcome/s of today's hearing is revealed before she arrives.

Janet
1:45 PM PT

1:36 p.m.: Terri Horman lawyers filed court documents that say the $350K she supposedly used to hire her attorneys is inaccurate, and that whatever money they have been paid came from a third party and is therefore not a marital asset.  But they did not reveal the identity of third party.

http://twitter.com/KOIN_Local_6

Eventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings. http://bit.ly/cEkf15     less than 20 seconds ago  via web 

http://twitter.com/KOIN_Local_6

Divorce abated until Jan. 6, Meisenheimer orders.

 Divorce abated until Jan. 6, Meisenheimer orders.     less than 5 seconds ago  via web 

She'll get it (visitation).  I'd bet my last bunch of bananas on that.  EVERYONE gets visitation.  Which is why I never filed for divorce!  Wasn't going there...

OJ GOT THE KIDS for God's sake.  (Of course, he was "innocent".)  But still, m just sayin'.

In Oregon it's been very popular, in the past 10 years or so, for the court to indicate that ANY parent is better than none at all (or 1 good one).  It just doesn't matter.

The kids slip through the cracks in our system.  They are not protected!!!  It's disgusting.

I'm not saying Terri is guilty.  I'm just saying I've seen it over and over again in the real world here in Oregon.  THAT is what is criminal, IMO.  Not protecting the children.

Unless Kaine has a guardian ad litem up his sleeve, Terri will get to see Kitty regularly.  (And, possibly even unsupervised) 

Sorry!  Don't kill the messenger.  This is all JMO. 

Again, I'm not saying she done it. 

If it were up to me I wouldn't allow her within 100 miles of Kiara. 

I hope it is supervised but under what legal reason would that fall under. She has not been named a suspect or charged with anything. This is where the law fails imo.

Me either!!!!

1:45 p.m. Judge: “The court recognizes Mr. Horman finds himself in middle of any parent’s nightmare, any human’s worst nightmare, and that is true by just the fact than his son has disappeared, but to add to that worst nightmare is that police came to him in June and informed him they had probable cause, that in their view it was more likely than not that Ms. Horman was likely involved in Kyron’s disappearance and she had hired someone to kill him.”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

Same here.

Sounds like she won't have contact until at least Jan. 6 anyway.

Aren't they 2 different things Brandi? They can grant the abatement at the same time as granting visitation?

Yep.  But that's the law.  The judge has to do it.  I'm pretty sure.  I'll be shocked if she doesn't get it ASAP.

Except we don't know what evidence police have given Kaine and or the judge. 

I'm sure we'll find out shortly.

Sounds to me that Jan 6 they will file for CUSTODY.

Today, probably right now, her divorce atty is undoubtedly asking the judge to amend the RO so that Terri gets visitation.

Standard procedure.  And, he already said today that if she was granted abatement, he would request that. 

I think we'll know shortly.... shouldn't take until 5 p.m., but it could I guess.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Terri has not done anything in the best interest of Kyron.

What would make anyone think she would do what's in Kiara's best interest.....JMO

Unless Kaine has Kiara in protective custody or he has a guardian ad litem for her (to represent Kiara) she is not protected!!!!

I'm not sure what he's done.... because she is a minor, it's hard to tell...

Kiara is all Terri has left to hurt Kaine.  I wouldn't allow Terri within 100 miles of Kiara.

Got to go..I don't think I will be back until tomorrow! I pray that God puts his hand on this and guides everyone to do the right thing.

Kyron where are you?

The judge has to uphold the law.  I know, I've been in this terrible situation myself.  Actually, I never let it get this far.  I didn't file for divorce because I knew what decision the judge would make, based on past cases here in Oregon.

If Kaine hadn't filed for divorce, he wouldn't be in this situation.  I'm sorry to say this, but it's true.  It's a disaster and it happens everyday to countless people.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 ::monkeyscissors::

The hearing has ended. KATU will have more on this story at 4 p.m.

2:10: Judge's Reasoning: Proceeding would comprise Terri's 5th Amendment rights: “Some of these issues… may have changed significantly by then. The burden on Mr. Horman, while not insignificant, that’s still within the 8 months we normally try these cases.”

1:50: Judge delays ruling on the Horman divorce until January 6th.
1:45 p.m. Judge: “The court recognizes Mr. Horman finds himself in middle of any parent’s nightmare, any human’s worst nightmare, and that is true by just the fact than his son has disappeared, but to add to that worst nightmare is that police came to him in June and informed him they had probable cause, that in their view it was more likely than not that Ms. Horman was likely involved in Kyron’s disappearance and she had hired someone to kill him.”

 ::monkeyscissors::

If there was a visitation decision made, I didn't see it. 

Nope, doesn't look like there will any custody changes until January.

Probably the only good news he's received in months.

Sorry Monkeys, just read this:

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Poor Kaine!  I know he's sorry he ever brought this woman into Kyron's life.

Don't know when he'll make the decision on this... but am thinking that this is why they were expecting to go until 5 p.m. today.

Custody and visitation are two different things, apparently.
Custody is for the long-term.  Visitation would start immediately if the Judge upholds the request to change the RO.

Me neither.

I think that all will be dealt with on Jan. 6.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Divorce-proceeding-will-be-abated-until-Jan-6/GonG6-VnTkmaYBikdxxq7Q.cspx


Divorce proceeding will be abated until Jan. 6, judge rules

Published: 6:31 am
Last Update: 2:21 pm

Arguments were made in a Multnomah County courtroom about the divorce between Kaine Horman and Terri Horman, the father and stepmother of missing Kyron.

Terri's attorney wanted the divorce abated, so she wouldn't incriminate herself in any ongoing criminal investigation, her attorneys argued.

Kaine, through his lawyer Laura Rackner, wanted the issue to move forward in a routine way.

Judge Keith Meisenheimer ruled that divorce proceedings will be held until Jan. 6 of 2011.

"Eventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings," Meisenheimer reasoned.

In the mean time, Peter Bunch, Terri's divorce lawyer, said he will petition to modify the custody of the estranged couple's young child, Kiara.

Terri has not seen the child since late June when she moved to her parents' house in Roseburg.

You mean they didn't petition the court prior?  They just wanted to make sure the courts didn't have more damning information so they wanted to wait until after they received the Abatement? 

Scarey, IMO.

"Yet, if a divorce abatement is granted, Bunch said he'd asked the court to alter the current "no parenting time" restriction Terri Horman faces to allow some type of supervised, reasonable contact between Terri Horman and her daughter, Kiara."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

He was waiting to see if the abatement would be granted first?!

Colour me confused.

Can you imagine how hard it would be to let go of your daughter's hand to put it in the hand of your son's murderer??? I'm not sure if I were Kaine, I could do it. Terri does NOT need visitation until this is all resolved and accountability for Kyron is established!

You would have thought the attorney would have petitioned the court months ago.

Evidence that would come out in the divorce proceding, the information LE told Kaine about Terri being responsible for Kyron missing and the MFH plot and other possible information we are not privy to would likely make the judge deny visitation.

Just catching up here.

BrAndi  that is very interesting..a third party ponyed up the money...wonder who that might be?

Her parents?

Most likely.

I agree CBB..if Terri will not tell the truth in court because her lawyer sayys it may incriminate her..then this is not a woman who should have visitation with her daughter until her true role in this is found.  There is no way a woman who put a hit on her husband and then likely had help disappearing her step son should be allowed near her daughter without LE standing there the entire time.  No over nights, no alone visits, nada..until she tells what she knows ....and then she can have her visits at the jail.

 ::MonkeyMad::

It's all timing.  It's been like a chess game.  A war. 
The only thing Kaine could have done sooner would have been to put Kiara in protective custody.  Or, perhaps, get her a guardian ad litem.  If this is the case, and he got one for her, to protect her and speak for her best interests, perhaps that will come forward next.  Though it seems we would have heard, but probably not because she is a minor....

So, if she has a guardian ad litem... I'm sure TH's atty must know about this.  This is what we should find out next.... whether Kitty has her OWN representation, which is what she needs to protect her.

Anyway, he couldn't do anything other than the above before the hearing.  The divorce proceedings initiated all of this legally.  Prior to today, there was no custody because there was no divorce. 

I'll be surprised if Kitty doesn't have a guardian ad litem.  Frankly, I think this is why Kaine went to Intel legal at the very beginning.  This is the information he was seeking, IMO.  It was all about the divorce.

Correction:

He could have done two things that I know of:

1) protective custody

and/or

2) retain a guardian ad litem.

We don't know that he didn't do #2.  I think we would have heard about #1 because I'm not sure if HE could have held her in protective custody or if the STATE would have had to have done it.  I've never know this for sure.  I'd like to find out, if anyone knows.

Sorry, you lost me.

The court granted Kaine sole temporary custody of Kiara back in June.  TERRI has to petition the court for custody which has not been done yet.  The reason it wasn't done is they wanted to make sure they could delay the divorce procedings because they know there will be more damnng information coming out about Terri.  Now that they know that hearing won't be until January 2011 they claim they will petition the court for visitation.

What about the second hearing?  Do we know when it's supposed to start?

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I just don't know... this was posted 4 hours ago.  Nothing right now about it.  DOES ANYONE KNOW: Have they filed out of the courtroom yet? I won't relax until that happens.  If they're still in there... this is likely the reason:

http://twitter.com/Fox12Oregon   (http://twitter.com/Fox12Oregon)

It is my understanding they are done for the day.

Correct.  I know, it's confusing.  But what I'm thinking is this:
Visitation/"parenting time" and custody are two different things. 
This is all JMO, understand. 
But, IMO, in Jan. they will have a custody hearing (which will be a more permanent thing.)  Sometime soon, though, today?  tomorrow?  (ASAP, I'm sure of that!) -- Terry will request parenting time.  And, this could begin very soon.  Supervised, probably.  I don't know if it will be today or ??? but very very soon. 

Well, that's interesting because I thought the judge put these two motions on the same day specifically to save court time. I'm sure you're right, because I understood the 2nd motion was to begin at 1:30 PNW, but now that it's 3:00 PNW.  The saving of time didn't work out after all.  The second motion was about the $350K. 

Yes, if this is a quote from the judge, I think he'll only allow SUPERVISED visitation, IMO.  He may NOT allow visitation at all.  But I'd bet my bananas that he will.  I'll be shocked if he doesn't.  It's just the way the law is in Oregon.

Ohhh... right.  Dunno.
Maybe it will be a 2nd petition (for parenting time with Kiara) and won't be done today, after all.  But, her attorney did state he would ask.  And, I'm sure he will, if he hasn't already.

Everything will probably be delayed until tomorrow.....

I don't see how she can be denied visitation ( right or wrong) She has never been named a POI, suspect and never been arrested for MFH or Kyron's disappearance.

ITA!

But nothing has changed since the decision to grant Kaine sole temporary custody, right? Kiara would still be possible at risk with Terri, the MFH accusations still stand. At best for TH, she may get some supervised visitation IMO. Wouldn't the court have to appoint someone in that case? Now I'm wildly speculating, WAY in advance, but remember Christian Gerhardtstre...something (his alias was Clark Rockefeller), who snatched his daughter during a supervised visit? I could see TH getting someone to help her pull this type of thing off.

http://twitter.com/KATUNews

 Court proceeding have resumed between Terri and Kaine Horman. Follow live notes here: http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html     half a minute ago  via web  

(I think this could be old (an hour ago) news that was posted recently)

Thanks, klaasend. Sure wish we could watch this live. I guess I should just be thankful for Twitter. :)

MOO!
Scatty, I agree 100%.  The judge is aware that LE and Kaine both believe she did something to Kyron and tried MFH.  Stealing her daughter during a supervised visit would mean nothing to her.  IMO, she has no interest in her child, otherwise she would be willing to undergo the courts questions.  She won't though, because her admissions would send her straight to jail.

Good evening all,

I have been reading the posts every day.  I cannot believe how much I do not understand from today.  I am totally lost.
Would someone please explain these things to me?  Tonight may be a result of my detoxing from a prescribed medication and I will feel stupid in the morning, but this is not making sense.

- What could TH say during the divorce proceedings that would affect her rights?  What could they ask and what could she say that would be detrimental to her in the future?  Would KH's attorney ask her point blank if she was involved in the disappearance of Kyron or the MFH?
Couldn't she just say she pled the fifth? 

Wouldn't the fact these things are being said implicating TH?

- What has the court decided about the disclosure of the alledged $350,000 for attorney fees?  How can they "say" the money came from a third party without having to provide proof?

I apologize in advance if I sound dense. 

Terri

911 calls back to December?  Okay, what's that all about?

Hey TG~

Just want to say Good Job with getting those mandatory criminal backround checks at the school! 

Now.....what a good question Puzzler?!

I would say the Judge knows everything as he handled today and the RO:

The restraining order was sealed by Multnomah County Circuit Judge Keith Meisenheimer, who handles family law. However, the abuse prevent petition showed that Terri was not granted any time with their daughter and restricted from accessing firearms. The no firearms clause was routine in such cases, a court clerk said.

Back to December 26...the day after Christmas. 

Judge delays Terri and Kaine Horman's divorce case until January, agrees Terri faces 'substantial legal risk'
Published: Thursday, October 07, 2010, 2:05 PM     Updated: Thursday, October 07, 2010, 3:22 PM
Maxine Bernstein, The Oregonian Maxine Bernstein, The Oregonian

Multnomah County Judge Keith Meisenheimer decided this afternoon to delay until Jan. 6 the divorce proceeding between Kaine Horman and Terri Moulton Horman.

The judge called the issues "extraordinary, difficult and complex," and unlike any that's come before state family law court.

He said he had to weigh Terri Horman's constitutional rights with Kaine Horman's interest in a prompt resolution of the custody, parenting and financial matters in the divorce.
 
He said Terri Horman's lawyers could return to him, if they sought to extend the divorce delay.
 
Meisenheimer said he was convinced there is a "substantial overlap at least in the relevancy of the evidence" in the pending civil case and the ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron's disappearance.


"Though it's pre-indictment, Ms. Horman has very substantial legal risk in the dissolution case," Meisenheimer said.

"The highest interest in this whole proceeding is to try to find the child alive," Meisenheimer said.

Terri Horman and Kaine Horman met in family law court for the first time today since Kaine Horman filed for divorce and obtained a restraining order against his wife.
 
Terri Horman's divorce attorney, Peter Bunch, asked the judge to hold the divorce proceedings in abatement while the criminal inquiry proceeds, but Kaine Horman's attorney protested any delay.
 
Bunch argued that a parallel civil divorce case, while the criminal investigation proceeds into Kyron's disappearance from Skyline School, would jeopardize Terri Horman's Fifth Amendment rights not to incriminate herself.
 
"Everything at issue in the divorce is fodder for the state in its forging of additional links in its evidence," Bunch said. "Virtually anything she says can be used by the state...The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring."
 
Further, Bunch argued that if the divorce proceedings were allowed to continue, he'd instruct Terri Horman to invoke her Fifth Amendment rights not to incriminate herself.
 
There's no doubt police will use what she says if she doesn't," Bunch told the judge.
 
Bunch also contends he'd be at a major disadvantage because the state and police aren't sharing their investigative material, not even allowing them to obtain a copy of a 9-1-1 call Terri Horman made June 26.
 
"You've got Mr. Horman, who is getting regularly briefed by police," Bunch said. "I'm at a complete and utter disadvantage in this divorce case."

Stephen Houze, Terri's criminal defense attorney, said her attorneys have sent subpoenas to depose the lead criminal investigator in Kyron's disappearance, Robert O'Donnell, and Rudy Sanchez, the landscaper investigators say was approached by Terri Horman to carry out a murder-for-hire plot against her husband.
 
Houze said he expects the district attorney's office to thwart that discovery. And if either side can't proceed with discovery, Houze argued that the civil case couldn't practically proceed.
 
Houze suggested the filing of the divorce case by Kaine Horman represents an attempt by the state to use the civil process to gain discovery for the ongoing criminal inquiry. "There can be no doubt that one of the purposes to be served by discovery is to elicit information by Ms. Horman that would be directly channeled to police,'' Houze argued.
 
 
Yet, if a divorce abatement is granted, Bunch said he'd asked the court to alter the current "no parenting time" restriction Terri Horman faces to allow some type of supervised, reasonable contact between Terri Horman and her daughter, Kiara.

She's the primary parent. That child needs to see her," Bunch said. "Certainly Ms. Horman misses her child and would like to see her. Her complete primary focus is her relationship with her daughter."
 
Kaine Horman's divorce lawyer, Laura Rackner, this afternoon argued that the divorce proceedings need to move forward.

Rackner said Terri Horman's request to delay the civil divorce case is not in the children's best interest, but "it's about her concerns and what she wants for herself."

She cautioned the proceeding could be delayed indefinitely, which would not provide stability for the children. Rackner referred to both Kiara, the couple's 22-month-old daughter, and Kyron.
 
"In this case, we don't even have an indictment, so we don't even have a limit as to how long this can go on," Rackner argued.
 
 Rackner's assisting attorney, Alex Nowlin, said they never indicated they'll be compelling testimony from Terri Horman.
 
"The Fifth Amendment does not give the right to delay a court proceeding because she's unwilling to testify," Nowlin said.
 
Kyron has been missing for four months. The second-grader was last seen at Skyline School early June 4 when his stepmom took him to school for a science fair. His stepmom Terri Moulton Horman is the last person to have seen Kyron that morning.

Although law enforcement has not publicly named a suspect, investigators have been intently focused on Terri Horman.
 
Kaine Horman filed for divorce June 28, two days after investigators informed him of an alleged murder-for-hire plot that his wife had discussed with a landscaper to kill him about six months before Kyron's disappearance.
 
Kaine Horman left their rural Northwest Portland home immediately, but has since forced his estranged wife out of the home. Kaine has sole custody currently of their daughter.
 
Terri Horman, dressed in a blue suit, sat in between her two attorneys, while Kaine, wearing a white dress shirt and trousers, sat at the far end of a table, besides his two divorce attorneys. They avoided eye contact throughout.
 
The hearing began at 9:08 a.m. and broke at 11:18 p.m.
 
Kaine Horman said after the judge's ruling that he was fine with the brief delay.

"Hey that's 90 days, 3 months from now, " he said, speaking outside the courthouse's front doors.

But Kaine Horman questioned why his wife worried about getting on the stand during a divorce proceeding.

"If you put the truth out there, why would you have to plead the Fifth? Kaine Horman asked.

He said it didn't upset him to see his wife in person for the first time since he left their house June 26.  He said he stayed focused on his daughter and his family during the hearing. He declined to comment on whether he would want Terri Horman to be allowed any parenting time with Kiara.

Kaine's attorney also had planned to argue this afternoon for Terri Moulton Horman to disclose the source of her fees for high-profile criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze, but the matter was set aside after the judge ruled to stall the divorce proceeding.

Terri Horman's lawyer argues that the alleged $350,000 amount Kaine Horman has cited in legal papers that Terri Horman paid to retain high-profile criminal defense lawyer Stephen Houze was not accurate.

Further, Peter Bunch wrote in court filings today that a "third party or parties paid for Mr. Houze's attorney fees," and it was neither a gift to Terri Horman or a loan. Therefore, Bunch argues, the money is not a marital liability.

Bunch contends Kaine Horman's interest in seeking the source of Terri Horman's attorney fees is to interfere with his estranged wife's attorney-client relationship with Houze and to "aid police in their investigations."

Michael Cook, an old high school friend of Kaine Horman who investigators say had gotten into an intimate relationship with Terri Horman after Kaine Horman left the home in late June, was outside the courtroom most of the day.

 Cook said he had been subpoened to court today by Kaine Horman's lawyer, presumably to discuss the text messages between he and Terri Horman regarding the cost of hiring Houze as a lawyer. His testimony was not needed since the two sides never discussed the attorney fee matter.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

Exactly and she supposedly only knew the LS rudy since March?  Or atleast that's when he came into the picture? 

Amen CBB!

IIRC, the "alleged" murder for hire was in November of last year. (2009)

OOOHHH, thank you.

Just to play devil advocate I wonder what the abatement ruling would of been if the roles had been reversed? 

i think the dec 26th date is prob a misprint, IE; june 26th call to LE about kaine taking
 Kiara, the RO, ect

Uh-oh....I didn't remember it as being that far back that far back...I remember Terri met RS at Skyline School in November...but I thought it was January-March on the supposed MFH plot.

 

Puzzler~

That's because in June, they were saying it was approx 6 months ago that the MFH plan was discussed. 

I thought March was the first 911 call where RS supposedly assualted Terri with Kiara in her arms - which btw Jonser/TJ is saying was a kiss per Dede?!

I have a question for everyone regarding the visitation request between TH and Kiara.

If she has to appear in the court to show just cause why she should be allowed parenting time with her daughter then can't they question her in that case also? Afterall she is obviously being investigated in the disappearance of Kyron and all fingers seem to be pointing at her. I would want to know if she did it before agreeing to parenting time. I would think they could question her about that then.

JMO

Precedent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent

points to ponder
this case of what normally would be a normal proceeding of divorce
could change some rulings, because of the (maybe not the right word)
abnormal circumstances, form reading the wiki
but im not a legal eagle, the above article sites

Question of fact
In law, a question of fact (also known as a point of fact) is a question which must be answered by reference to facts and evidence, and inferences arising from those facts. Such a question is distinct from a question of law, which must be answered by applying relevant legal principles. The answer to a question of fact (a "finding of fact") is usually dependent on particular circumstances or factual situations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_of_fact

She will plead the 5th

If she makes the visitation motion, then Kaine would have to have some reasons to try to have it denied. With the on going investigation who is going to say why ? The police ?
It's really a catch-22. They've never named her a POI a suspect or anything, it's Kaine who has had the microphone.
I can see supervised visitation with alot of condiitons. Unless something happens in the meantime. Kiara has to be the number one concern, but unless there are some compelling legal reasons where there is proof, how could it be denied ?
..
 I was surprised that a precise day for the 911 calls Dec 26 from HER lawyer in a DIVORCE case was asked for and denied. Her lawyer wouldn't ask for incriminating to Terri stuff would he ?

This makes me think of Andrew Bagby and his son.  The courts in Canada ruled that Zachary's mother was only a threat to Andrew and that since she had killed Andrew she was no longer a threat to anyone.  She later killed herself and their son, Zachary.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Whew! I finally got in!  ::MonkeyDance::

Hi Monkeys, my name is Jackie. I have been reading here for a loooooong time, and I must say you guys are quite the sleuthers! I love reading all the posts here and quite excited that I get to join in now!  ::MonkeyCheer4::

I have been following Kyron's case since the very beginning and my heart breaks for him. I would give anything to see this little guy brought home. As for where I stand on the Terri issue, I am a fence sitter. That is not to be confused with a Terri supporter. I am a Kyron supporter.

Anyway, I look forward to posting with all of you. Ty klaas for letting me in and ty Pam and Barb for helping me out!  ::MonkeyDance::

not sure maybe this is what kaine att. has in mind
to force everyones hands LE ect. and this guy just 
denied the allegations, now it has been picked up by the U.S. attorney
 im going to quit with the legal aspect to confusing for me

snip
Tattershall said she expects the Sacramento County investigation to conclude just as the federal investigation did, with no charges.

"It's my understanding it's the same allegations, and I basically anticipate that the exact same outcome will occur as with the U.S. attorney -- nothing will happen," she said.
http://www.kcra.com/r/24819759/detail.html

I think that LE's info resulting in the RO as well as the grounds for divorce will stand in court.  If Terri pleads the 5th and refusing to answer questions at the time of a custody hearing..well she ain't gonna get custody.  LE has spolen and Kaine used that in his plea to the court both for temporary custody and a divorce.  So unless Terri decides to speak I think the results will be the same. 

Welcome to the cage Strawberrythunder!  Glad you landed in a safe spot..grab a banana and some wine.  We're here for the long haul..and hoping it is short for Kyron's parents.

 ::monkeywine2::

strawberry thunder  welcome
and your user name sounds like an adult beverage
cheers
 ::monkeywine2::

Ty for the welcome! And ty for offering a banana instead of throwing one since I said I'm a fence sitter, LOL.

I' here for the long haul, too. I hope justice for Kyron comes soon and he is brought home.  ::MonkeyAngel::

It is, and it's quite tasty!

So, who makes the cool monkey avatars?

Welcome Strawberry Thunder! 

And I agree with the adult beverage...could use one right now and strawberry sounds real good!

Welcome Strawberry! 

But all the MFH came from Rudy. When they tried the sting, she called 911.
They have a LS said, Terri is silent. If she was texting LS guy suggestively, that doesn't stop her from being a good Mommy. I know that you have an education in social work, but I am just thinking how many peeps get visitation and custody regardless of alot of things. And how many sad mistakes are made here.
..

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 ::monkeyscissors::

Kaine Horman reacts to judge's decision

Kaine said he was not surprised at the judge’s decision, and he said he is somewhat relieved that he will have the next three months to concentrate on finding Kyron and spending time with the couple’s 2-year-old.

He said he wants Terri to start talking but he said her attorneys made it clear she won’t talk and won’t take the witness stand.

“If you have to get on the stand and plead the Fifth and you can’t tell what happened or didn’t happen – if you put the truth out there and it’s not incriminating, then why wouldn’t she say what happened?” Kaine said.

Terri Horman would not comment Thursday on any questions reporters asked her.

Kaine said it was not difficult sitting at the same table with Terri during the hearing. He said he just stayed focused on Kyron and Kiara and doesn’t have time to worry about what Terri is up to.

When asked if he would support a plea deal – if prosecutors offered Terri a deal to talk to them about what happened to Kyron -- Kaine said he would leave that up to the district attorney’s office and didn’t want to comment further.

Meanwhile, more searching by investigators is planned for this weekend on Sauvie Island. Several hundred people searched there last weekend. The Multnomah County Sheriff's Office said it has been acting on old information and not on new tips.

Welcome Jackie!! Glad you made it into the cage! ::MonkeyBike::

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Horman_Court+documents_10_7_2010.pdf

copy of Atty Bunch's filing

credit to IS Peri~dot

Welcome, Strawberry Thunder.

Welcome to the cage, strawberry thunder!

     (http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/MonkeyGuys/Animation1c.gif)

Glad to have you join us!

Thanks everyone! So glad to be here!  ::MonkeyDance::

Snipped from kptv.com

After the hearing, Kaine Horman said he is satisfied with the judge's decision.

“I think it’s a great step in the right direction," he said. "We want to get through this as quickly as possible. We want to get the kids in their routines and then, outside of the divorce, we want to get Kyron in a nice, stable household."

I understand talking about Kyron in terms of when he will come home, but this sounds odd to me.  Is this a misquote of what Kaine said, or did he really say Kyron?  To me it sounds more like he would have been talking about Kiara.

TY i put the link here
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8198.msg1243080#msg1243080

got a link so i can read

Here you go!  Sorry about that!
http://www.kptv.com/news/25317391/detail.html

Also I think this should be Roseburg, right?  Maybe this article has errors...

snipped from the above article:

A judge's order forced Terri Horman to move from the family's northwest Portland home in July and she has since relocated to Medford.

Desiree is adamant that Kyron is alive, but I thought Kaine was starting to come to terms with the fact that it is likely Kyron is no longer with us. But, after reading that, I'm not sure what he thinks. After these latest searches being labeled as a recovery effort I can't imagine what they must be feeling.

yes Roseburg, not Medford

Welcome Strawberry Thunder!  Yeah, it sounds like he is being optimistic there, but I wonder if it's an error on the journalist's part and maybe he said Kiara?  They are so tight-lipped about the investigation, but from what I have gotten it sounds like they are just returning to the only place they suspect she went and searching for any evidence.  I think the only reason to think the worst is because he has been gone so long.

Horman Divorce Case Delayed Until 2011

POSTED: 11:13 am PDT October 7, 2010
UPDATED: 6:37 pm PDT October 7, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. -- A judge ruled Thursday that the divorce case involving Kaine and Terri Horman will be delayed until January 2011.

Terri Horman’s attorney argued that the ongoing criminal investigation into her stepson’s disappearance creates an issue of self-incrimination for her. Eight-year-old Kyron Horman was last seen by Terri Horman on June 4 at Skyline School in northwest Portland, investigators said. He vanished from the school after a science fair.

Terri Horman and her estranged husband, Kaine Horman, did not appear to make any eye contact upon walking into the courtroom and sitting down Thursday morning.

Attorney Peter Bunch said Terri Horman is no doubt the focus of the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance. He said any testimony or questions about finances that will come up during the divorce proceedings might be used against her by investigators.

"There is no doubt that she's in the crosshairs of the state's investigation," Bunch said.

He pushed for up to a two-year delay in the divorce and argued the situation would ultimately impose on Terri Horman’s constitutional rights.

Kaine Horman's lawyer argued quick resolution would be in the best interest of the couple's young daughter Kiara, who is in Kaine Horman's custody.

Judge Keith Meisenheimer agreed with Bunch that it would be difficult for the court to hold a normal custody study.

After the hearing, Kaine Horman said he is satisfied with the judge's decision.

“I think it’s a great step in the right direction," he said. "We want to get through this as quickly as possible. We want to get the kids in their routines and then, outside of the divorce, we want to get Kyron in a nice, stable household."

One of Kaine Horman's high school classmates, Michael Cook, was also in the courthouse Thursday.

Police said Terri Horman starting "sexting" Cook shortly after Kaine Horman filed for divorce.

Cook said he was subpoenaed to appear by Kaine Horman's lawyer. But he did not testify or comment about the hearing.

In court documents earlier this year, Kaine Horman said police told him there was probable cause that his wife was involved in Kyron’s disappearance. He also said in the court filing that Terri Horman was involved in a murder-for-hire plot against him.

A judge's order forced Terri Horman to move from the family's northwest Portland home in July and she has since relocated to Medford.

http://www.kptv.com/news/25317391/detail.html

It breaks my heart hearing and seeing Desiree and Kaine.....Kaine looks like he's lost even more weight. It's so sad.

That would be our Brandi who makes the great avatars!  ::MonkeyCheer4::

He does look awful. The video I saw of him walking into the courthouse today he looked like a skeleton.

Welcome, Strawberry Thunder! We're glad you're here!   ::MonkeyDance::

Welcome Strawberry Thunder    ::MonkeyWink::

Ty all, glad to be here!  ::MonkeyCheer4::  ::monkeywine2::

 ::HelloKitty::

I am so mystified.  If Terri is innocent of everything, what could she possibly say that would incriminate herself in a criminal investigation?

Sexting Michael Cook is not criminal.  Oregon is no fault so Kaine could say that he doesn't like red hair and divorce her.

Done.  Divorced.

It is so apparent that she is not innocent after all.

I agree. An innocent person cannot self incriminate.  ::rhino::

Yes, I agree.  How can someone incriminate themself if they are innocent?

LOL!  I said the same thing.

Yup. Highly suspicious. From what are her lawyers protecting her?

http://www.kptv.com/slideshow/news/25317752/detail.html


Looking thru the pictures from today. Suddenly it dawned on me the Divorce Att(Bunch?)...always in the back...like a kid at the picture show

stuck behind a tall, weight challenged person!    Tsk,tsk... ::MonkeyHaHa::  always the bridesmaid, never the high powered big shot?

 ::monkeywine2::

Hi Strawberry T! 

Our own talented and gifted Brandi wine can hook you up with a really cool, (animated even!) Avi.  Just swing on over to see her at:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4314.0;topicseen
 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4314.0;topicseen)

Cheers!

Welcome to the monkey cage!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hello and welcome to Scared Monkeys strawberry thunder ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

There are actually two here that make the avatars, which include Brandi (link noted above) and CBB, who is making Halloween avi's right now:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8514.msg1226420#new 

It was denied by law enforcement.  They can do that, since it's their tape.  They are saying it's part of a criminal investigation so they don't have to release it. 

If that date is correct (Dec. 26); I'm betting that it was a domestic dispute and that's why Terri's atty wanted it. 

But LE is not going to play any of their cards until the criminal investigation (if there is one). 

JMO.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::HelloKitty::

where I live, supervised visitation is done at a visitation center staffed by professionals.  I would hope that this is the same in Oregon.

If Bunch files for visitation, won't Kaine challenge that with info from the MFH, for example, and then TH would have to say that it's not true?

Wouldn't that open up a can of worms for her?

Wow, it's been a heck of a day....interesting to say the least.

First, I wanted to ask NEIGHBOR   a question- 

How far in advance did the students have to prepare for the Science Fair? Weeks versus months versus a single week? If you know, I would find it helpful in looking at intent and planning, pre meditation, etc...TIA

And, second...I have had a tree frog the last few weeks talking to me every night at my house. He has been quite loud, singing a lovely tune each night, and for whatever reason, my cats have ignored him. We have taken to calling him Kyron, naturally. It's the first frog I've had here.
Plenty of chatty squawking birds, squirrels, racoons, and possums.
But my first frog.

And, I agree, Kat.  It's totally a catch-22. 

I think KH wanted to file for divorce so that TH would be forced to speak... and then fry.  However, this was a gamble. 

The only thing that was accomplished by pushing the divorce through was putting Kitty in the situation where she will now be split between these two.

Oh, and this became more clear:  LE was forced to show some more of what they don't have:  enough evidence to book her.  I think KH took a chance when he filed for divorce.   He threw the dice... and lost, IMO.  Unfortunately, he's not the only one.  Kiara.  IMO it is inappropriate for him to focus on Kyron during the divorce.  Kyron is not here.  Kitty is.  She is substantial in this situation, not a ghost.

I think he thought TH would incriminate herself during the divorce proceedings.  She would take the wrap/the fall.  Problem solved.  Yet, still no Kyron.  (Details, details!)

 ::MonkeyMad::

Who was served by this divorce?  Kyron?  No.  Complete distraction.   

Kiara?  Hardly.

Terri?  Perhaps, a bit.  She gained some ground today.

KH?  Well.  At least he's got the house, and Kiara, until the judge rules differently.  But without a divorce there would have been no custody dispute.  He could have kept Kitty the whole time, legally.  And, I'm betting Terri would have let him.  Now it's even MORE FUBAR, IMO, and did nothing but distract from Kyron's return.

This is inexcusable and irresponsible, to say the least, IMO. 

If there was a MFH plot, they should have released that evidence.  Why withhold it when it could have helped with this situation and Kitty?  It won't have anything to do with the criminal trial... the murder trial that's to come (with or without a body).  So it was what??? Just wasted?  Another phantom, distraction? 

KH didn't give a damn about Kitty or Ky or he would have waited until after the criminal trial.

Poor kitty.  She would be better off in protective custody, IMO.  Now, she's split between the two of these sick puppies.  So sad.

If I'm banned for this... I'd love to say "it's been real"... but you know what?  It hasn't been.  It's been smoke and mirrors.

I wish you all the best.

Godspeed Kyron!
 ::MonkeyMad::

Oh this is a great post.

I really enjoyed Lea Connor's comments in it.

Thanks, Klaas.

O/T for a sec?  A little comic /stress relief...but all I know how to do is post the link.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mgI9X6VuOBs/SyqYqCv6CtI/AAAAAAAAC0Q/DNz8jIibBeg/s400/blogging_monkeys.jpg)

Thank you special Klass    ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks for the blink link, as usual, I agree and loved seeing the comments from Lea Connor. Very informative and seems to make sense.

About a month. 

Welcome "strawberry thunder"

"Who was served by this divorce?  Kyron?  No.  Complete distraction.   

Kiara?  Hardly.

Terri?  Perhaps, a bit.  She gained some ground today.

KH?  Well.  At least he's got the house, and Kiara, until the judge rules differently.  But without a divorce there would have been no custody dispute.  He could have kept Kitty the whole time, legally.  And, I'm betting Terri would have let him.  Now it's even MORE FUBAR, IMO, and did nothing but distract from Kyron's return.

This is inexcusable and irresponsible, to say the least, IMO. 

If there was a MFH plot, they should have released that evidence.  Why withhold it when it could have helped with this situation and Kitty?  It won't have anything to do with the criminal trial... the murder trial that's to come (with or without a body).  So it was what??? Just wasted?  Another phantom, distraction? 

KH didn't give a damn about Kitty or Ky or he would have waited until after the criminal trial.

Poor kitty.  She would be better off in protective custody, IMO.  Now, she's split between the two of these sick puppies.  So sad."



Kokos...I am SO with you on this, as a mother. 

Kokos!  Stop being silly! ::MonkeyConfused::

I think what this whole thing did was give LE more time to locate Kyron and collect evidence to bring the correct parties responsible to trial. 

BOTH of these parents have seemed to have written off Kyron!

Kaine, not so much, because he's still so out there, although not as much these days.

Terri, from the beginning, because she chose to close herself up into a cocoon.  Hiding behind her lawyer because the investigation focused on her and she got scared.  I don't know about her guilt or innocence, because her side just will not talk!

This is NOT acceptable!

There is an eight year old little boy STILL missing, now for FOUR FRIGGING MONTHS!!!!!!!! 

And they're out there in court, talking about divorce proceedings?  That is so incredibly inappropriate I cannot even think!

 ::HelloKitty::

If he didn't file for divorce, TH would still be able to do something about the RO, so that hardly matters.  But Kaine would liable for all of her legal bills.  If she is charged, I imagine that the $350,000 won't go far.

He believes that she had something to do with Kyron's disappearance.  The whole time she would be married and be entitled to more and more of his assets.  I know money shouldn't be a focus, but it would be a cold day in he** that I would want my assets to be mounting up for her.

She may not be charged for a long time.

But hellokitty...

He filed for divorce based on the suspected MFH plot...which, has never been proven, or ever had any charges filed.

What if LE was duped?  What if it was all made up?

As long as LE is still focused on this case, it's an open investigation.  Opening up at the civil trial could be turned around on Terri and used in the criminal proceedings. 

This isn't about Kyron, this is about a civil divorce proceeding which Kaine filed for based on the MFH plot of the LS as per LE.

The judge granted to a postponement until January.  Let's hope LE finds resolution in this case and Kyron's where abouts are known by then and these people can move on with their lives.  Until Kyron is located, these people are living in a void and cannot move forward.  The divorce is secondary to finding Kyron.

Dear Joni,
  Thanks.  It's heartbreaking.  Children are NOT protected in our court system.  They need advocates. 
   Adults are protected -- Terri's rights were protected. 
   Kiara was a pawn, IMO.  So sad.
 ::MonkeyAngel::
 

Well, I guess I'll post my rant....

My opinion is that the whole divorce proceeding has nothing to do with the money, or the custody/visitation of Baby K. 

The purpose is to make Terri talk. Today, she chose not to. Ms. Kastner played her cards well. She gambled, and Kaine won. A point for Kyron. :)
The divorce itself is delayed for 3 months. I sincerely doubt Kaine cares. This puts the ball back in Kaines court, as they still have no obligation to share any info with Terri's defense/divorce team. This is obviously maddening to Houze & Bunch. They can't even access a 911 call from 12/2009....

Terri chose to avoid testifying. Looks bad. If she really had nothing to hide, what's the issue???

Judge states his opinion, and this carries weight, IMO, very damning to Terri Horman. Terri will have to go to court again if she wants visitation. I do believe there will need to be an evaluation of her psychological fitness, given that she has the RO filed against her.

I wonder if she will submit to that. Somehow, I have my doubts.
Then, she'd  likely have to testify. Why would she then, if she couldn't today? A chess game.....

I agree that the divorce is mainly to get info from Terri, and we learned a lot. Her lawyers are protecting her from incriminating herself. We don't know from exactly what, but it does not look good for her. Having her criminal attorney present for these divorce hearings is a hoot. She might as well wear a "guilty" sign.

With one child missing, Kaine is also protecting Kiara. No one is positive about what Terri has done or will do, so keeping her from Kiara may be a wise move.

By filing for divorce, marital funds have ended for Terri. Kaine does not want to pay for her defense if it is shown she was involved with Kyron's disappearance, and he suspects her of some involvement since it has been stated that her stories kept changing.

If LE was duped, Terri's going to have a heck of a time trying to get her life back.  The masses will never believe she wasn't involved somehow.

She will never get the time back that she has been seperated from her daughter.

If LE has been duped Terri lost her stepson, accussed of trying to take out a hit on her husband, lost her husband, her home, her daughter, accused of being basically a whore, kidnapping and killing her stepson, alienated from friends, life as she knew it.

Kaine lost his son, who, according to the pictures, was a great source of joy in his life.  He lost his wife and the stability of his children having both parents in their lives.  His faith was in LE, he and his ex wife's allegations compromised Kyron's search and very well could have been viewed as a violation of the RO by speaking directly to Terri through the media. 

There are no winners in this.

I agree that the divorce is mainly to get info from Terri, and we learned a lot. Her lawyers are protecting her from incriminating herself. We don't know from exactly what, but it does not look good for her. Having her criminal attorney present for these divorce hearings is a hoot. She might as well wear a "guilty" sign.  In this case, I think the attorneys are yielding on the side of caution.  Terri may not know anything, but just to make sure something isn't misinterpeted, they are keeping her quiet.

With one child missing, Kaine is also protecting Kiara. No one is positive about what Terri has done or will do, so keeping her from Kiara may be a wise move.

 This is why this postponement is a good idea.  This gives LE some time to locate Kyron and determine what exactly happened. I certainly wouldn't want to hand over my child if I'm unsure of the guilt of my soon to be ex spouse in regards to another child.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


By filing for divorce, marital funds have ended for Terri. Kaine does not want to pay for her defense if it is shown she was involved with Kyron's disappearance, and he suspects her of some involvement since it has been stated that her stories kept changing.
[/quote] 

 I agree.  If someone did do harm to my child, I wouldn't want to pay them anything either!  Hopefully, the postpnement will clear this up.

Dear Nurse Ratchett,
   Yep.  I agree.  That was the purpose.  To get Terri to talk.  To surrender her rights to a fair trial and to incriminate herself.  Since that didn't happen, though, I fail to see how this furthers the investigation into Kyron's disappearance. 
   Also, unfortunately, KH cannot use the RO to protect Kitty.  Only himself.  He has exposed Kiara to visitation with Terri. He has opened the door.  And, she will come in.  Everyone gets visitation.  Even murderers in jail, get visitation.  She has not been charged with any crime.
   If she is not charged soon, IMO she will get time with Kitty, before January.  Soon.
   TH will plead the fifth to any questions the judge has regarding her parenting.... this is a no win situation and it could have been avoided if KH gave a damn about Kitty.   
   LE can't sit on those tapes forever.  And, if they had any evidence on the MFH plot, they would have used it today.  Why didn't he play that card today?
   Perhaps, if Kyron is never found, they will indict TH with no body.  But, that is going to take at least a year, maybe longer. 
   A lot can happen in a year.  KH is a timebomb, IMO, especially now.  He won nothing today.  The court upheld Terri's rights.  Now what?  More fundraisers to pay for "the search for Kyron". 
 ::MonkeyNoNo::
Obscene. 
   
   
 

Thanks, Nana!

 ::MonkeyGavel::

 ::HelloKitty::

The RO stated that LE had given him reason to believe that she was involved in the disappearance of Kyron as well.  I don't remember the exact wording.

She was sexting Cook as well with graphic pictures of herself in various stages of undress .  She did the same with the LS.

He has discovered that she lied to people all over the place as well.

We have no idea what LE has told him, but it was enough for him.  It's his life and he gets to decide.

Well, the judge made his decision and that's that.

Tomorrow is another day.

Let's hope there are some answers soon.

Grey~  ::monkeywine2::

Kokos:  BIG HUG!!

Busy day tomorrow.  This monkey is heading to the King's Chamber!!

Goodnight All,
MK

 ::rhino::
Whew.  You said a mouthful MK.  What a lovely bunch of coconuts!
 ::MonkeyShovel::

Good night, MK!  Thanks for being so positive... I really hope you are right!
Sweet Dreams...
 ::MonkeyAngel::

If Kaine hadn't filed for divorce, and if the investigation continued to be stale, don't you think Terri would have taken action to get Kiara back, anyway?  To me, very little was lost by Kaine's gamble.  It would not have taken her much longer to start trying to get Kiara back.  She hasn't been charged with anything.
I think it's very clear that both children are very important to Kaine, but it is a difficult situation.  What would it say to everyone if he didn't push through with a divorce?  I think a divorce is expected.  If not now, then when?

Has anyone heard anything more about the family hiring a PI?  I thought there was a small statement somewhere of the fund being used to hire a PI...

 ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyTongue::

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Perhaps after Kyron is found would be more appropriate. 
Terri would never have been granted visitation without a DIVORCE because there would BE no custody dispute.  That could have gone on for a long time, she wouldn't have pushed to see Kiara, IMO.  And, Kaine would have had her "safely" at home with him.  Though "safely" at home with KY is an oxymoron, IMO.
 ::MonkeyGavel::

Unfortunately it is impossible to know if Kyron will ever be found.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Nobody knows what TH would have done regarding visitation.

Why do you feel she is not safe with Kaine?

So all that really matters here is KH?  What about Kyron?  What about Kiara?

OK...that's kind of ridiculous. A person can't just show up in court and ask for an RO with NO EVIDENCE. The judge knows things that he has not publically revealed.
LE has evidence that we know nothing about.
This case is bigger than just a divorce. Kaine needed to legally remove TMH from his life, and from Kiara's life.

Filing for divorce was a way TO PROTECT Kiara. Until it was filed and the RO issued, TMH had the same rights to the baby that Kaine did. She could take her at any time. This is why LE warned Kaine. They wanted to protect him and his baby. He took steps to protect his daughter, and to protect her home and his assets. Hurting Kaine financially will not help his children, since he is their sole provider.

I believe LE are the ones that informed KH of the MFH, aren't they?  So, yes, he had "proof".  Proof provided by LE.  Who's going to question that?  But if they had it, why didn't they show it today in court? 

And, I understand that in the long run, yes, divorce was the only sensible thing to do.  And, necessary.   For lots of different practical reasons, not the least of which is custody of Kiara. 
But a piece of paper is not going to protect Kitty from Terri.  And now she will have regular access to her. 


Besides, 

I see that you are just here to bait people.

Terri has NOT been granted access to Kiara. The RO has NOT been removed. And  Kaine does not have the power to subvert the entire civil and criminal justice system by telling lies to a sitting judge.
Besides...if there was no reason for Terri to plead the 5th....why would she need to use it if called to testify? She's the one that's causing her own separation from Kiara.

PDH,
  I'm afraid she will not be separated from her for long, is my point.  I'm afraid she will get visitation.  I'm afraid it will be soon, well before the custody hearing.  I hope I'm wrong.  Time will tell.
  K. Cat.   

You are full of it.  I know a baiter when I see one.

Well.  Now you see me, now you don't. 
Anyway, you are obviously very intelligent and astute.  I'm sure you'll figure it all out.  I hope you are right and I am wrong. 

Goodnight. 

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Let's please keep this thread civil and on topic, with the topic being Kyron Horman.  We have hashed and rehashed Harry Oakes merits and frailties in Kyron's forum and the two Harry Oakes threads that are currently locked.  Let's not trot the Harry Oakes pros and cons out for discussion again, since all it seems to be is an endless debate.  (http://bestsmileys.com/oneofakind/1.gif) 

They will begin the search again tomorrow morning on Sauvie Island. I am praying that they will locate something that will give these parents closure one way or another. There will be lots of volunteers involved in this search. How wonderful they are willing to give up their weekends to look for our little Frogman.

My own emotions are so mixed on this as I want closure for his families but also I want him to be found alive, safe, and unharmed.

Obviously there are those here who are running on very high emotions following yesterdays divorce case. Everyone has their own opinions and this being America have that right. I pray that you don't let these emotions spread into your own peace at home. Everyone needs an outlet for the anger they are feeling over yesterdays outcome. Because anger can be so explosive "believe I know" it is something that needs to be dealt with in a constructive way. Not turned on others here please. We all care about the outcome of this case and the precious children involved. This includes the two teen boys who have lost their little brother.
Also the precious little girl who is at a young enough age to not be aware of what all this commotion is about. Her safety has to be first on her Father's mind as well as LE. I will not let myself believe otherwise.

I care about and think about all of you while I am at work. Please if need be take a step back for a day or however long and regroup. Sometimes it is a necessary element of this case.

I wish all of you the best I think you are all the most caring and loving people and want you to be safe and healthy when this is over. 

LD1

MB...TY

CW...YW.  MB   ::MonkeyWink::

In the regular Missing Persons forum, up above there is a section for Resources, Search Groups and Fundraisers.  I have started a Harry Oakes thread there and ALL of the HO posts and threads will be merged and moved there.  

Please keep the Harry Oakes topic out of this thread as it appears he will not be searching for Kyron dead or alive anytime soon.

Too many disagreements about Harry.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=73.0

Thank you Klaas for offering those who want to discuss HO an option.

Also thank you for offering all of us this forum to discuss Kyron in it gives us all an outlet for our frustrations and to show our concern.

LD1

What I want to know in reference to postponing the hearing...

... what will be different in three months?

If anything maybe Kyron could be found by then, and Terri will surely be at the very bottom of the loosing end in the divorce case.

If Kyron is not found by then, things will most possibly be the same as they were yesterday.

But, one has to agree after all the mess, that the judge wants to be as impartial as he can be, and he intends to protect Terri's rights.

MOO.

That's a great question.

IF the incident was planned involving the science fair, then finding out the date it was known to her would determine how far back she planned it.

But, we all know schools plan activities like that at the end of classes every year... plays, trips, parties, field days, etc... so she could've used any activity as a backdrop for her plans.

She maybe waited for the right event, or having the science fair notice gave her the idea.

She has definitely lost weight, but her overall appearance is good. 

Kaine, on the other hand, has lost weight he couldn't afford to lose.  :(

Yes and as much as I may hate it....it is what it is.  She has rights too even if I want her to tell all...obviously there are things she cannot talk about w/out incriminating herself...and it is what it is.  JMO.

Hopefully Kyron will be found or charges brought without him if the evidence points at her in the meantime.

Good morning, monkeys.  Just read over all the good posts written since yesterday’s court hearing.  Can’t resist putting in my 2 cents worth – sorry it’s so long.

Looking back, IMO, it seems that LE talked with Kaine about the MFH plot while Terri was taking a LDT for a specific reason.  LE planned the timing so that it would have maximum effect, which it did, and Kaine left the house with Kiara.  I think LE’s timing was planned during a very emotional time for Terri (police interviews, LDT’s, Kaine leaving, taking Kiara) to try to get Terri to breakdown under all the pressure and tell them where Kyron is. 

LE’s plan backfired. 

It also seems to me, that Kaine and Terri were rapidly heading for divorce before Kyron went missing.  With LE’s trying to put all the pressure to bear on Terri, it gave Kaine the impetus to go ahead and file for divorce – and it seems that Terri is fine with getting a divorce, too. 

Long about now, I would love to know what the December 26, 2009, 911-call was about.  Can’t help but think about the fact that James was gone from the Horman home the very next month.  IMO, I think the 9ll-call and James leaving the home could be connected.  And, obviously, Terri’s divorce attorney thinks something about that 911-call is important with respect to the divorce.

LE tracked down Rudy Sanchez through Terri’s phone records.  Rudy, a known liar by virtue of being in the U.S. illegally and information coming out during the court hearing  yesterday that the name Rudy Sanchez is an alias, told LE about a MFH plot, which LE believed and set up a sting operation in which to try and catch Terri.

LE’s plan backfired – once again.

IMO, the sting operation was devised because within the text messages between Rudy and Terri, there is noting to implicate the MFH plot.  If there were that concrete evidence, LE would have already arrested Terri for the MFH plot and used that as even more pressure to try to get Terri to tell where Kyron is.

Okay…let’s face it…Terri took a LDT, and we know the part where she came across as deceptive was with respect to “lifestyle”.  That means any questions she may have been asked, such as: Do you know what happened to Kyron? Do you know where Kyron is? Do you know who has Kyron? Did you kill Kyron? Did you take Kyron from the school? Do you have Kyron stashed somewhere?  - and surely a number of these questions were asked – these questions she answered with no deception noted.  If Terri had answered any one of those questions with deception, IMO, we would know that…just like we know that she answered question(s) about lifestyle with noted deception. 

IMO, it’s looking more and more like RS may heavily be involved with Kyron going missing, either directly or by his associates.  Obviously, LE thinks so, too, because we learned in court yesterday that Terri’s attorneys have been denied RS’s contact information by the DA.  If RS is heavily involved, IMO, it wasn’t a conspiracy between RS and Terri, because the two of them are obviously at odds with each other, which makes me suspicious that extreme anger and/or revenge is in play.  If it’s as simple as RS is upset with Terri for spurning his sexual advances, the – yes – this could be sexually motivated after all.

The homework assignment came a month before the IB expo.  This expo is part of the international baccalaureate curriculum, and as such could have been predicted years in advance.

FYI I borrowed my new avatar from the gigantic monkey that is leaning against Ky's Wall of Hope.  It jumped out to me because of this cage.  I hope the donor doesn't object, and the monkey likes the OR rain.

That's the perfect avatar, neighbor!

BBM.  With all respect Puzzler we do not know which questions were problematic for TH. We've read unsubstantiated comments made in response to various news articles and blogs. Some of us have assumed which questions have involved deception. I believe Terri is up to her eyeballs in this. I maintain she would not be worried about self incrimination and pleading the fifth (remarks by her attorney) if she were innocent in the disappearance of Kyron. That said, I agree that James moving to Roseburg is entirely related to this situation regardless of the impetus.

The huge question is who really is this Rudy Sanchez and where is he now.

nicubird, I'm pretty sure it was Blink that let us in on the "lifestyle" questions on the LDT that Terri took were the problematic questions. 

I again have to say I find it very hard to believe they would of been asking Terri Horman Lifestyle questions on her first LDT.....Why would they?

They get a call on a missing child - why ask that type of question? 

Terri is the one who went back after her failed/deceptive LDT and spewed the information about it to all that would listen including the LE stationed at the house according to Kaine and family. 

I just feel pretty sure they would not have been asking her about her Lifestyle on the initial LDT she failed/deceptive.  JMO.

I would have no idea what questions they would ask a person the first time around on a lie detector test, I personally find them rather useless, but what kind of lifestyle questions would they ask anyway. Do you mean like about the marriage and friends and questions like that?

I just don't get it (Blink's theory)  unless as the latest rumor goes; 

The "Landscaper" was informant/undercover and the LE already knew about a supposed/failed MFH plot by Terri and were waiting for her next one.

Otherwise why would a "Illegal" bring attention to himself and his family?  Why would LE knowing - let it go on.  Could it have been 2 MFH plots?  One failed, one took?

This MFH plot just does not add up or make sense to me.  Maybe it's just me.  I still think Terri and Terri only had time and opportunity besides "MOTIVE" to commit this crime.  JMO.

FCL - this might help:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mGhu75rjwqUJ:scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Ftopic%3D8661.840+Blink+on+Crime,+Terri's+LDT,+lifestyle+questions&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Reply #850 on: October 07, 2010, 05:23:59 AM

Thanks for the video/radio show:

http://cdn.static.viddler.com/flash/publisher.swf?ref=blinkoncrime.com&key=453929e9

Dana compares Terri’s body language and facial expressions as:

 Dirty as your Grandpa's underwear~  Yuck!   That's just nasty.

Blink states:
Terri was deceptive on questions about lifestyle-

Questions about the Landscaper is when she stopped the interview/LDT and
invoked her right to counsel

Blink also stated she expected an arrest back in July for either Terri or RS.
This has not come to pass.

Blink expains there are
3 Different grand juries in Multnomah County:

1: Violence: against person
2: Property: vandalisim
3: Drugs

They also can put together a High Profile Grand Jury.

Blink states she believes these were Kyron's glasses as
the FBI made a picture of Kyron withoout his glasses, Blink says she believes there's a
"Fair chance that he's not wearing them" thus the picture

The MFH has never made sense to me either.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll look for a link. Even if those were the questions failed on the LDT (and until I look at Blink's statement I do not concede that this is a Blink Fact and not a Blink Theory), it doesn't explain the worry for self incrimination. I agree with you on many things, but Terri's innocence in this matter is not one of them. I believe she was instrumental in Kyron's disappearance; and I believe her involvement is purposeful and not simply inadvertent.

Puzzler, thank you for your many thought provoking posts. I appreciate the opportunity to look at this from angles that I would not have otherwise considered.

my heart was in my throat yesterday when Bunch started threatening for visitation, and I realized how I have taken for granted Kiara's safety and well-being since I first heard of events on June 26.

I realized yesterday that all of that could change in the blink of an eye and Kaine could be forced to hand Kiara over to Terri.

Even supervised visitation is, imo, unacceptable at this time.

I'm sick to my stomach at Bunch's statement that James is living with his mother.  I am hoping that Terri's parents are there with them.

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

Consider this:  RS "didn't" bring attention to himself.  Terri broght attention to him via the 911 call. That's the reason RS became furious with Terri - that she called LE on him and he is in the country illegally. 

Consider this:  the MFH plot didn't happen.  When Kyron went missing, RS realized that LE would eventually be at his door step again because he had text messages with Terri.  With Terri being a person close to Kyron, RS would think that LE would check her phone messages and find his number there.  RS would think that LE would track down all the people that Terri has been involved with, so he was ready for them, and had the MFH plot ready.

Remember RS does not want LE at his door.  It is not good for him or any of his associates who may also be in the US illegally.

RS is already angry with Terri and then became furious when she called 911.

Have you every heard of the big paddle effect?

When you're in trouble - take out the big paddle and splat it down in a pile of accusation toward someone else - everyone else is so busy trying to clean the splat off themselves, you are totally forgotton in the chaos.

I think RS brought out the big paddle and splat it down on a pile of "MFH".

So this would be the 2nd LDT?  That would make more sense to me.  I know per Blink the one she walked on (2nd or 3rd) was right before or after the MFH sting.


And I believe Blink on the Glasses.  It was hinky the way it came out later and LE should of done a better job on that one.  But for all we know the glasses may have been found in the school parking lot and that is why they know he left the school.  JMO.

imo, Terris is involved right to the top of her 90's era hair-do in the MFH.

I believe she planned it, tried to implement it, failed with regards to Kaine - so went for Kyron instead.

I didn't read that info either, NoRose....

Does anyone have a link to an article or document where Bunch says this?

TIA

I can't argue with this at all. But what is very upsetting to me, is who exactly is this Rudy Sanchez? If that isn't his real name then what is his real name? For all anyone knows this person could be a criminal, sure hope the police know who exactly this guy is, and I'm sure they must.

I missed it to, first time around:

""... During the hearing, Bunch corrected Rackner, who suggested that Terri Horman's son James was living with his father. No, Bunch said flatly, James is living with his mother. ..."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

I sure would like to see it also, granted I skim stuff at times but think that would have jumped out at me.

Wow...I do not like this either.  JMO.

Thank-you

I know, right?

I feel for James - Terri has been his constant for the most part.  He really probably doesn't have much choice.

nicubird - I do believe Blink has written what you're looking for at BOC and if you search for it you will find it.  Please look at post 205 above.  There is a link to one of Dana's shows and the portion of that show where he interviewed Blink. You will find it interesting...I believe it's only about 12 min. long.

Just to clarify - I bolded a section of your comments above - in response:  I did "not" say Terri is innocent.  I have never said Terri is innocent.  I have said many times, I'm on and off the fence as to whether Terri is "directly" involved or "indirectly" involved. 

I have stated before that:  I am a truth seeker.

I want the guilty party, whether it be Terri, or Terri and 100 other people, I want truth to be found and "all" guilty to be found guilty in a court of law and justice be brought to Kyron.   

Wow...I missed that yesterday.  Interesting.

Puzzler I am a truth seeker as well, and all I want is for this to end and the person/people responsible to be brought to trial.

Interesting comment from Blink yesterday:


lyla says:
October 7, 2010 at 2:12 pm
A few “tidbits” regarding proceedings. MC is there.

http://twitter.com/KATUNews

Is everyone clear now that Rudy Sanchez is the subject of an ONGOING investigation?

Remember how I said that the family law matter which included criminal investigative input from LE will come back to bite them??
B
Edit to add link.  MB http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-57/#comments

Maybe Rudy Sanchez went to LE after Terri attempted to hire him to murder Kaine.

Maybe LE wired Rudy Sanchez, sent him back to Terri to "close the deal" but Terri chickened out. (or suspected he had gone to LE)

No charges could be brought against Terri, and the investigation over, but LE at that time could have helped RS with his US legal status in return for wearing the wire.

Months go by, there's no more attempts to contact RS by Terri......case closed.

BUT THEN, Kyron disappears.......Terri's still on their radar from the MFH.

Maybe Rudy changed his name because of the MFH plot.

Too many maybes and questions.......and NO answers!

Where's Kyron???

I'm sorry, I meant to post the link as well:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-57/#comments

A subject of an ongoing investigation, meaning this case or something else prior? I don't understand the last statement, come back to bite them how? ::MonkeyEek::

When was it that RS went to Terri with LE and the wire?  I thought it was "after" Kyron went missing...please correct me if I'm wrong.

AND possibly Terri was also a subject in that same investigation. Which is why it wasn't such a HUGE leap for LE to suspect Terri in Kyron's disappearance early on.

JMO

I'm sorta confused, too.  I believe it means that Kaine's energetic divorce team, could be hurting the criminal investigation.

I'm saying maybe (after Kyron disappeared) it wasn't the 1st time LE wired RS to nail her for trying to hire someone to murder Kaine.

Thank-you

Did you pick up on Blink's statement that RS is the "subject" of the ongoing investigation (Kyron's ongoing investigation - I'm thinking)

Good early afternoon Monkeys,

Trying to catch up here. I was reading over on Blink's site ..
Reading about LS Man and that there was a 911 call placed on the day after Christmas ( not sure, but guessing 2009)

Terri placing the call. ( for what reason?) I don't know, does anyone know?

Anyway it brought me back in my memory of the photo's taken at Christmas 2009 of the Horman Family. This photo in particular. Noticing the sheets on the couch and a pink gown/nightie/robe.  Thinking of Christmas, usually the bigger companys/corps will give their employees a few days off ( Intel) instead of Christmas Eve and Day ..then back to work. Possibly Kaine was in the way, with his days off, hanging around the house. ( didn't fit into TH's plans with LS guy)

Wondering if KH/TH were having issues then? Did KH suspect anything then? Was TH having issues with LS Guy and that is why she called 911. Wasn't he originally hired for Snow Removal on the Horman property. I thought I recalled that Terri said/ or has been quoted being stated.
Did she try to fire him, or did Kaine have any knowledge of LS guy then?

Was Terri and Kaine on the rocks, the Christmas holiday? That Terri was sleeping on the couch? I posted this before. But know reading that a called was placed to 911 the day after Christmas is .. hmm.

I did, and am wondering if this Rudy was also a part of another ongoing investigation as well. That to me is not clear. I'm going to say it again, who is this guy really, funny how not much has been dug up on him, and does he have a criminal background. All things I guess may come out eventually.

Who knows about the 911 call after Christmas sure could be a domestic issue. You can imagine how many domestic issues end in 911 calls, there have been several just in my neighborhood alone. Better that then something bad happening if you ask me. Or it could be something like a trespasser, they heard suspicious gun shots, who knows?

Another Blink post:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-57/#comments

beejay says:
October 7, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Blink:

Remember how I said that the family law matter which included criminal investigative input from LE will come back to bite them??
B
________________________________

Are you talking about LE supposedly having told Kaine about the murder for hire?

Because, in that Helen Jung interview transcript I linked here awhile back, Staton DENIED having given Kaine that info. And I figured he was trying to backpedal/downplay it at that time.

The language in the restraining order and contempt complaint specifically references information he was given by LE.

Bunch is 100% correct in his argument, imo. No matter how this is sliced one sided discovery is a violation of due process in both courts, period.
B

I is curious, though, that Terri's divorce attorney think's it's relevant to the divorce, so much so that he's discussing it with the Judge in the divorce case.

I'm very curious about that call.

I'm very curious as well, just trying to think of different scenarios, but if her attorney wants it because it is relevant to the divorce, I guess then it must be something domestic, imo. Don't know.

I think it means that RS is a "subject" in the ongoing Kyron investigation.  

I should have realized that RS was an alias after finding out he was illegal in the US, but, instead I was surprised when I hear that yesterday.  I think I need to sharpen my sleuthing skills.  It's simple.  Of course, RS is an alias...he's illegal and probably has illegal documents to back up that name.

How would we ever find out his real name?

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

July 6th, updated July 8, 2010

snip:
Kaine told of murder-for-hire plot

Later that day, Kaine was told by investigators that she had plotted against him. He was also told "if she did it once, there's a chance she did it other times and we're investigating that possibility," according to a source close to the investigation.

That night Kaine took their 19-month-old daughter and moved out.

According to sources, Terri Horman had talked to the landscaper about being in a bad marriage and had claimed that Kaine had "hurt" her emotionally.

The Oregonian first reported the murder-for-hire plot Sunday morning. KGW independently confirmed the report through a reliable source.

The landscaper - whom Terri had hired to do work last November without Kaine's knowledge - came forward to investigators as they reached out to everyone that they could find who had had contact with the family. While he said he had no intention of carrying out the plot, he did believe that he would be getting something from Terri.

"She led him on," sources said.

Police records showed that Terri made two calls to 911 on the night of June 26. The first time, at 5:17PM, was recorded as being related to "threats" and the second time, at 11:39PM, which was recorded as a "custody" issue and was made after it was clear to her that Kaine and their daughter were not returning.

I think this has been asked before ... I am sure it has.

How would one go about this? You looking in the yellow pages, or community directory for a Landscaper.

How would go from chit chat about snow removal from your long drive way, or having the back 40 of your yard cleaned up ..to say by the way.. I am having issues with my Husband, do you think you could " Off Him" for me ..

I am guessing this LS guy and TH hit it off at first with some flirting which led to " personal conversations", and or she cried wolf to him ( made something up such as Kaine was abusing her) to lead/sway their relationship from " Client/Business" to it becoming " Other and more personal ?"

Seems strange that it would go from landscaping services, to escalate to MFH.
Just wondering how much time, LS guy hung around the Horman House that their relationship turned the corner.. Kaine at work all the time. The Twin White Trucks.. who would pay attention?  :smt102 Would Kitty know LS Guys photo? If someone showed her ?

I should have realized that also I guess, that if you are hear illegally you would probably be going by an alias. Just don't think about these things much.

This might be a small point, but it could also be important. I don't think RS is a "landscaper" - they have degrees in landscaping usually.  I think RS is more of a landscape maintenance person - one who would clean out blackberry vines, or get snow off your driveway, or plant some grass seed or plant; whereas a landscaper would be someone I would call to design an area of planting for my yard and have his crew implement the plan.  That's the way I look at it.

That is what puzzles me, all of a sudden you blurt out will you kill my husband? Don't think so, pieces are missing for this to make sense for me.

Good point, where I live with an association we call the people who do the lawn care gardeners, maybe they call them landscapers up in Oregon.

Better question is; Would Kyron?  And is that why he stated "Stepmommy is Dead"?????

You and me both...

Kyron search coordinator hurt in I-84 crash; Elgin woman faces DUII charges

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/multnomah_county_sheriffs_sear.html

Olsen was taken to an area hospital with non life-threatening injuries and later released.

All good questions
Following up on " How TH and RS ( LS Guy) got too comfortable with each other.

and FCL - would Kyron recognize his photo? that is a good question too

I know my lawn guy, he does everything outside house. He cleans my gutters, does the lawn care and snow removal. He does not do handy work. He is strictly " lawn/snow/gutter" guy.
He is young and can do all of it in less than 30 mins with his commercial equipment, rather than I spending 5 hours of hard labor..just on the grass and edging/clipping clean up etc. 
The snow too, he just rides in and rides out ... that type of thing.

I can't see myself though telling him my personal life ( if I was married) ..

The photo of him " RS" on Blinks site.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/#comments

Big Photo. He looks like a healthy guy. Wondering if he works out?
http://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Sanchez_201.jpg

His Neck is Huge. Which is typical of guys who work out for years. Wondering if there is a " Gym" connection? When I worked for an Engineering firm, we had several guys who were serious body builders. There necks entered the room before their body. Was very noticeable.

One of my co-workers, he would cycle within his body building. He would be Massive for months and then shrink. Because he felt too bulked up. He too confessed he was heavy into Roids in his younger years. I asked him one day why he had " Pin dots" all over his upper arms. Looked like blood dots/pin size. He said it was taking roids ( He said I was young, stupid and in many competitions) The pin dots were left over from his body expanding too quickly. That he feared they would be forever .. he said they really bummed him out.
 
Which I noticed too with the photo taken of Kaine (outside the court house) he is shrinking fast. He is losing his " muscles" noting the photo of him in the dress shirt and tie. Stress and not working out, eating less - fast decline of the body. :(

Kaine: http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/10/07/kyron-horman-missing-kaine-and-terri-horman-face-off-in-family-court/

Geeze that woman was tore up...2 call in's prior to hitting the search lady.  wow!  And 61 yrs old, I wonder if it will be her first offense? 

If TH did get screwed up in some crazy mess with some crazy people don't you think she could come clean now?

The MFH sting was a bust.  So be it she had an affair with some landscaper and he took it upon himself to harm Kyron...can't she come clean now? 

That's a good question - I'm hoping she has and we haven't heard of it yet - I'm hoping that's the reason Blink is saying that he is a "subject" in the ongoing investigation.

Thank you, I missed that yesterday too.
I know I don't post much, but I do try to read and keep up. Thank you all for your interesting perspectives in this case. I really thought they would have found this child by now, and praying that they will soon.

Child support money likely comes in handy...

FCL, you would think she would. If she had enough " evidence" or something to offer LE about RS/LSGuy ..I would think she would cough by now. Obviously " Kiara" is being discussed with orders of custody.

Maybe there is a technicality or something within her " statements" of RS guy - that there is not enough to implicate him in wrong doing? Within her relationship with him, the MFH plot, Kyron ...

Did LS Guy gain some " favor" by coming forth to LE about the MFH plot and given an  exchange for ??

Kaine must know something, with his last statement " We need to be patient"

He saying they/LE need to make sure " that everything is concrete/matter of speaking" before an arrest is made.

Which I don't understand either. Maybe you can, or another Monkey can explain.

Knowing that no one person has been labeled legally " suspect" in Kyron's missing, would LE go without naming one? and jump directly to arrest?  It's all so confusing to me.

Ah-ha. I wondered why she would have James with her during this stressful time and after she has stated that he was doing so well with his bio father. It's the child support money. Poor James.

Thank you everyone for all the updates.

I really think that Terri knew RS for at least a few months before asking him to do the hit on her husband.  It could be she got roids from him or people he hung with, it could be someone that she met at the school that introduced them.  But I think she knew his background before she would ask a question like that..meaning she knew either he would do it or knew a guy who would take the MFH.

If Terri were perfectly innocent in all of this she would have spoken up loud and clear rather then go through all this.  I know that her lawyer said she would give up her rights to the residence..and that tells me she is going to jail..eventually.  Otherwise she would have fought for that too.  No she is protecting herself in the only way left and that is to keep quiet.  She knows LE knows about the MFH..that is when she walked out on the LDT and refused to answer.  So if she had no part in that she would have answered no truthfully..but she didn't.

Let's just say I think that the LDT and the MFH and the sting was also about something else..something even bigger that RS is involved in..and by acquaintance so is Terri.

She may not have personally, physically disappeared Kyron, but she has a role in this and I believe she knows pretty well who did this and why.

 ::MonkeyShovel::

And it looks good...motherly, jmo. 

I usually don't bust on personal appearances or point those things out...atleast I try not too!
But I did notice the length of TH's skirt yesterday in relation to Kaine's Attorneys skirts.  She seems to dress rather conservative from her photos but anyway I did take note of it.  tee hee.

It's Terri's only income right now......I feel so bad for James.....and worried!!

How could she put him smack in the middle of a very volatile situation. What about the alleged death threats against Terri?.....James is not safe living with Terri, IMO.

Agreed, any arguments about the lie detector results are just speculation. LE has not released, and surely will not release, details of the results before the investigation is over.

I'm sure Kaine and Desiree may have been briefed as to the LDT being deceptive or whatever, and they may have repeated that in one or two interviews but it's not like they ever have said which part was failed, or deceptive, or given any other details of the particular test.

MOO.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

Terri Horman would be willing to stipulate an immediate divorce and grant her husband the house on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road, while asking the court to delay decisions on custody and parenting time for at least two years, Bunch offered.

Kaine Horman's lawyer, Laura Rackner, said Terri Horman's request for a delay is not in the children's best interest but is "about her concerns and what she wants for herself." She cautioned the divorce could be delayed indefinitely, and that would hurt the children.

"In this case, we don't even have an indictment, so we don't even have a limit as to how long this can go on," Rackner argued. 
--
Adding James:

He/KH said it didn't upset him to see his wife in person for the first time since he left their house June 26.  He said he stayed focused on his daughter and his family during the hearing. He declined to comment on whether he would want Terri Horman to be allowed any parenting time with Kiara.

During the hearing, Bunch corrected Rackner, who suggested that Terri Horman's son James was living with his father. No, Bunch said flatly, James is living with his mother.

----------
That seems almost " damaging to shift James from a place of comfort, with his Dad and StepMom and siblings ..to be thrown into the " Circus Tent" living at Terri's parents house. "media and public scrutiny" or is that what TH is hoping for? That something does happen to James so she can " Sue " someone? idk.

That Poor Kid, James, he has been through hell and back for the last year. Especially being his age of 16, hormones and all things considered. Tossed around from place to place. Where is TH's concerns for his education and stability/mental health? He was quoted in the newspaper that he didn't like school and he skipped a lot. That he rather hang out a the local book store.
 
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
snip:
About James
He was also a voracious reader, spending more than 16 hours a week absorbed in books, he said. But he wasn't a good student. He said he often cut classes at Lincoln High to browse Powell's Books.

"School was boring," he said.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

If I understand correctly, Ron Tarver lives pretty close to Carol Moulton.  My bet is he's spending as much time at Ron's place as he is home. 

 ::rhino::

I sure hope so.

I really believe he was doing well at Ron's.

Good Afternoon Monkeys!!!

Well, I find it interesting that James is living with his mother...very interesting.  I think, that the decision happened between Terri, James and his father.  I don't think Terri could just have James because she just wanted him...otherwise...would that not be something Jame's father could take Terri to court for?

And if Terri is innocent in all of this (not saying she is or is not) she will have one heck of a custody case for parental alienation.

 

I'm wondering if Terri didn't give up any claim to the house because it's listed in Kaine's name only.  It was strange to me that when Kaine bought the house he put it in his name alone - not joint names.  But, I believe that being in Kaine's name alone would mean the Judge would be more likely to award that house to Kaine anyway...and Terri's attorneys knew that, so they took it out of contention. 

Yes, I think Terri, James and his father would make a joint decision.  James is old enough now to decide where he wants to live.

Klaas, that makes sense...because...when James went to live with Terri's parents...wasn't he spending time with the grandparents and time with his father (and the horses) as well?

That's what I'm thinking, and maybe James wanted to go live with his mom.

Forgot about that, the house was only in Kaine's name, so the house would be Kaine's by law, or would the time they have been married taken into account, don't know how these things work. Have never known a married couple with only one spouse having their name on the house, maybe that happens more than I thought.

Hopefully, you are correct Klaas. It really "is ugly" though for Ron all over again.
For him to split James in half * within all the awful ongoing, add worry for his son's safe being. ( the public/press/throw in the kitchen sink) Even James saying that his Mom is house bound. That makes for a tremendous amount of stress for a kid to understand/handle. 

Which I wonder if while James has been temporarily living with Ron - did he actually cease paying Terri in the first place? I bet he has been paying her all along, due to this was a temporary living arrangement. The child support order would still be in place. Possibly suspended but I doubt it. Because Terri is the custodial parent, the court order of support would stand. No matter that she had moved into her parents house, or that James was temporarily living with his Dad.  What a Hot Mess.

And in thinking about the general ugliness of divorce...well this case is going to take that to a whole new level.  And I am not saying this is fact, but there is no evidence presented...just very bad behavior...so keep that in mind.  If my marriage had been on the rocks and I had done some things I did not want to come out, which none of us ever want our bad behavior exposed, and I felt I had nothing to do with the disappearance of my child, and my loved one threw me under the bus by publicly exposing my humiliations, publicly implicating me in the disappearance, publicly stated that he had been shown evidence of my attempt to off him, and taking my daughter and I was never arrested for any of these things...well, I would shut my mouth, too and I would follow my lawyers advice to the T.  Because I had already been condemned and found guilty by the public and by my soon to be ex.  Huge deceptions by both parties...no love lost inbetween those two.  The only one who left to really pay the price for these two morons bad behavior is the little baby left...my heart goes out to that little peanut.   

Tarver has no legal rights with respect to James. He gave up paternity when he consented to the adoption by Ecker. I agree with Klaas that James is more than likely spending time in both residences. I believe the attorney's statement is spin to make Terri look more reponsible and maternal. JMO

BBM. Ron Tarver has never paid child support to anyone. Child support for James is being paid by Ecker.

Thank you Nicubird...I have to agree.

Puzzler, I may be wrong, but didn't Kaine buy the house just shy of the Wedding in Hawaii?

The other thing too could be with all the issues of " Mortgages" - Maybe Terri's credit score combined with Kaine's - caused a higher percentage rate ?? That it was better for the mortgage to be left solely in Kaine's name?

Add she was unemployed/or subbing teaching/or ?? and filled with Student Loan debts at the time.. I would imagine when she and Kaine were purchasing the house, Kaine probably had assistance from Intel..that he was able to obtain " Better Rates" for the mortgage on his own. idk? Sounds reasonable though. I am sure that Intel offers such services of relocation " to keep the employees close to their jobs" with financial services how to make your money work for you, that type of thing - within their Credit Union etc..I am sure they offer one.
General Motors and Ford Motor offer a Credit Union for Employees.

Maybe Terri didn't know the house was not in her name, after the fact, that she thought her name had been added to the title ? Or it was said once she became gainfully employed they would refinance? Don't know.

Just seems strange though with the MFH plot..what would be collateral ?

A little Red Eyed Tree Frog Boy?  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thank You Nicu I stand corrected - Ecker not Tarver for paying support

Have to keep TH's Men straight here .. Thank you for the correction.

Of course, if I was guilty...I would keep my mouth shut, too.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Maybe James is going back and forth between his dad and mom, don't know, but maybe James really loves his mom and wants to be with her, we don't know this or not. If he didn't care about her, I would imagine since he is old enough he can decide this on his own.

Or maybe Terri knows that her time as a free woman is limited and wants to spend as much time with James as possible.  I guess no one really knows...this family is giving the Croslin clan a run for their money.

I wouldn't worry much for James, he's always been taken care of by Terri. I don't think she would harm him, unless she really goes down the edge and decides on a murder suicide, which I doubt.

There was a news article way back, that explained who was paying child support, meaning Ecker, and the situation with the bio-father, Tarver.

But, if I remember correctly, didn't Ecker say he was no longer paying child support (for the past five years.) I think he said he lost his job (or something) and wasn't able to pay.

About the December 26th, I also remember someone writing about this two or three months ago. Was it one of Terri's gofers?

I'll sit down and dig in the weekend, to see if I find it in past threads.

:D

That's exactly right, we just don't know.

NoRose, I am sure he loves his Mom very much. And may even want to assume a protection role in all of this. That he is supporting his Mom, the best way he knows how -by staying with her etc. Legally ( would think) he is able to make that choice. I am not sure on Oregon Laws, but in Mich - the age is 14 to chose which parent you want to live with.

Even so I really feel for him, being that he has lived with Kaine/TH for the last 8 yrs - tossed around from living space to living space, and him feeling and not knowing where his little brother is .. Its gotta be tasking on him. 

Deenie, you may be right about the house being purchased before the marriage.  I think the house was purchased in December 2006, but I don't recall the wedding date...wait...wedding would have to be "after" mortgage because didn't Terri and Kaine get married when Terri was already pregnant? 

Terri should have known whether the house was in her name or not...if you buy a house in joint names, both of you have to sign many documents for the purchase. 

from my notes:

In 1996, she married Richard Ecker in Springfield. He adopted James two years later. Ecker, who now lives in the Portland area, continues to pay more than $500 in monthly child support for James, though he's not seen him in six or seven years. The couple relocated to Beaverton in 2001 and separated that year, and their divorce became final in 2002.

I think maybe you are thinking about the fact that Ecker had not seen James in six or seven years?

ITA - "we just don't know"

Just to add -

 I know way think that Terri would ever hurt James physically or otherwise. 

Its what surrounds her that is the unknown is why I worry for him. Who is camping out watching " Moulton House" for the latest greatest bit of news? or what have you. That is why I worry for him.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

House purchase: January 2007
Marriage: April 2007
Baby: November 2008 (no, Terri was not pregnant when they married)

I found it
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

Divorced Ecker - Jan 2002
She met Kaine June 2002

Desiree Young said that relationship broke up their marriage, but Kaine said they were already living separate lives in the same house. In August, when Desiree was 8 months pregnant, she filed for divorce.

Kyron was born Sept. 9.

At the time, Terri was living in a condo in Beaverton with her son. James, who was 8, remembers Kaine bringing Kyron over to the condo as a tiny baby.

In mid-December 2002, Terri and James moved into his house in Aloha, Kaine said.

Court records show that Desiree had primary custody of Kyron after her divorce with Kaine in early 2003. Both Kaine and Desiree said they worked out a joint arrangement: Kyron stayed with Desiree at night, was in day care and then spent two hours every afternoon at the Aloha house where Terri, Kaine and James were living.

Unable to land a teaching job, she returned to restaurant work, taking a job as assistant manager at Red Robin in Sherwood, where she worked between December 2005 and August 2006.

At the end of 2006, Kaine sold the Aloha house, and in January 2007 the family moved to rural Northwest Portland. Terri found the secluded, wooded property on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road, and Kaine bought the house.

Three months later, the couple got married in their bathing suits in a small ceremony presided over by Kaine's dad on a beach in Kauai, Hawaii. On Mother's Day, Kaine gave his bride a brand-new candy apple red Ford Mustang GT.

I feel bad for him also.

That is certainly a great point, one never knows who is out lurking.

nicubird - TY - Excellent

Terri has sole custody of James.  Ecker is paying child support even though he's not the biological dad, he adopted James.  James had gone to live with Ron Tarver his bio dad who lives near grandma Carol Moulton where Terri is currently living.  I suspect that if Ecker were to find out that James was living with Tarver he might fight the child support order.

Think about it NoRose, Nothing is being said to the press at all. Now you have a 16 yr old James living at the Moulton house .. I can see people trying to target him to gain some
" Inside scoop" .. even paparazzi types that take photo's to sell to the tabloids etc.

He has to leave the house to go to school etc.. just thinking about that is scary. I am sure he is already in defense mode. Because of the situation. I hope that he is ok at school, that no one is bothering him. ( His classmates etc being bullies- Hey I heard your Mom did this/that to Kyron) that would be a huge undertaking to reason with - without getting physical for a boy at the age of 16. jmo

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

I agree, I hope the press and kids aren't bothering him either, but unfortunately I know better, kids can be mean and the press can push the limit.

It might be that her credit was a mess and it would be more difficult getting a good rate with her on the application.  A friend's son married a girl who's credit rating was TERRIBLE...this is what he was advise to do...make sure she wasn't on any credit application...put everything in his name.  Also IIRC if she was sued for anything they couldn't touch the house or car or furniture or bank account if her name wasn't on it.

Actually James bio father Ron T gave up legal rights to James long ago.  Her second husband, can't remember his name at the moment was convinced to adopt JAMES AND HAS BEEN PAYING CHILD SUPPORT EVER SINCE!  But he has not seen James in some time.

So Terri actually could go in and say I want James with me and Ron would not be able to do much.

However, I think James may only see Terri infrequently enough for her to be able to tell the court he is living with her.  Remember she sent James away in January..but told all her firends it was in March.  But he was already with Ron on the farm in February..prior to that he was with Terri's parents.

That was my thought Klaas. There has been no contact between James and Ecker for years. My guess is Ecker had no knowledge that James had moved in with his bio dad earlier this year....until Kyron disappeared, and was still paying child support to Terri. When he found out James was not living with Terri, he might have told her he would petition the courts to modify child support payments.

JMO

Sorry about the above post..I see you have already sorted it all out with who's who with the fathers of James.   It does get vey complex.

 ::rhino::    ::piggy::

Thank-you, that could be what happened.

I believe the decision started with her lawyer, so it would help her get visitation with her daughter. It would show that other people trusted her and that James was doing fine...imo


I hope I'm not in your box as I'm on my iPad and there is no scroll.

just thinking out loud

Kaine and Terri were together for 8 years. Shared a house/home with their two boys James and Kyron

Then came little Kiara

What would cause such a deliberate " choice" to call on an outsider to " Off Kaine" ?

(( prior to Kyron going missing)) 

 ::FlyingFrog:: ::MonkeyHeart::

Hi, Sunny.  Good point about credit rating.

This happened in Florida but my husband owned a house for 5 yrs before I married him and when he went to sell it I was called from work to sign a Quit Claim Deed or they couldn't get Title Insurance.

an affair with an enemy....

I was engaged when I purchased my house ( which I never thought was possible in my lifetime/to buy a house)

I searched the real estate and chose my house on my own.

I never added his name, for we never were married and thank God I didn't marry him. Adding his name to the house - the last year and 1/2 me owning my house he practically lived with me. ( He was so hateful and jealous that he even told me - why should I contribute to a house that is not in my name)  :shock: Big Red Truck. Not really.

Him living with me for 6 mos at a time, me paying for everything, he was laid off - not contributing a dime. Him having the excuse that he had his own personal bills - whatever.
Him costing me, money hand over fist, that I have never yet fixed of his *I am a renovator
( he thought he was a Handy Man, um not so, he was a destructive one man crew) that I still have his " makeshift efforts lingering" today. That I can not afford to fix at this time. It almost became apparent that he was doing things to pixx me off, and create damage - because he was testing me. Out of Jealousy, for he was wanting some sort of " recognition" ... 
 
My Point being, it was not a United Front of two, my reason for adding this to Kyron's Cage.

Which I wonder if there was some " unfiltered Hate" between Kaine and Terri within the finances. That Kaine was making all the $$ and with the " statements of Kaine" Terri was spending OUR Money faster than he could recognize - so He took over the finances. Maybe Terri saw it as a punishment?  And became spiteful. 

Possibly Kaine had that in the back of his mind as well - why it never transpired after the years = to put Terri on his assets. He knew something was wrong? That she was a spender without thought or consequence? 

He could not take the risk of her name " lack of credit" being on the family assets and could not add the trust that the " finances of Horman" were being respected ?

When did it finally dawn on Kaine something was out of hand ? what would she spend $ on is my question ..that it took Kaine months to "  :smt115 " is the question?

 :smt102

Money and power struggles within a couple that have both offer " dynamics within their personalities"  - One who is a maker/saver ~ One who feels they are owed in a way - is like gasoline and a book of matches. Just takes that moment/reason to push "one"  to strike the match and it all goes  :2ukli:

FCL your choice of word " Enemy" would that be of Kaine? do you think that " LS" guy thought Kaine was a threat or enemy?

Maybe Terri led on to LS guy at one time prior to June 2010. Lying to Him, yet him LS guy not knowing what to believe.

Her telling LS Guy: Kaine knows who you are, and I told him this ( making up a nefarious story that would be believable to LS Guy- nothing to do with the MHF plot, Yet personal and believable to LS guy - twisting his/LS brain sideways)

That it really spited him and made him think " Man, this woman is crazy. Now its not about Kaine, its about Me.."   So he then whipped back, if you're going play personal - I can play too.  Making it personal to Her ..

I mean Terri is an attractive woman, I doubt that Landscape guy was wishing in the end - she would become his girl ..type of thing.

Had to have been motivation on both parties sides to keep this " secrecy" for so many months. Seems to me it points to " Blackmail or a revenge" type of thing ~ both of them having some serious heinous dirt on each other.   

Which then leads to Kyron   

Deenie I thought you meant what would make Terri mad enough to want to off Kaine? 

I don't think LS guy thought of Kaine at all. 

After all he was getting his wife so to speak.  Kaine was maybe $$$ and Terri was a tool to him imo.  If that's the way it went.

Jonser/TJ on GLP regarding RS per Dede;

Dede said that both she and Terri think Rudy Sanchez needs to be checked out real close, he would be the only other possibility as to who could have done this, in my opinion. And the only one I dedes and Terris thoughts according to Dede.
Mind you, Dede told me she wasn't absolutely positive Terri is innocent, she is saying Terri never revealed anything to her that would tie her to the case. She feels Terri didn't do it, and is loyal to the truth and not Terri, but she cannot say that Terri said or did anything to tie her into Kyrons disappearance.
According to Dede, Terri was being harrassed by Rudy a little bit by phone for a while before Kyron was missing.
Rudy I thought had a record of child sexual abuse, he was sexually aggressive to Terri according to what Dede heard from Terri, but was that the truth? Dede said Terri did not call the police the day Rudy grabbed her while holding Kitty and tried to kiss her, why? I think it was because Rudy was allowed to do so previously. Did Kyron see this? I will ask Dede if she knows.
Terri could have set Rudy up to be a great scapegoat.
It would take alot of future planning, and is very slim but possible.
Rudy I think would have been spotted easily tho.
So why would Terri just hand over Kyron to a sex crazed land scaper that could get caught and bring it back to Terri?
When LE did go to Rudy he sure was cool enough to spin it real good and smooth with the MFH and play the part good enough to fool
LE.
I think he should be really questioned tho, just to be sure.
I'm at 90% Terri did it, 10% Rudy pulled it off alone.
But I don't think they were working as a team.
Too much trouble between them to cooperate with eachother and not screw up and roll each other out.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PG. 219  Just food for thought on RS - MFH Plot.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1170793/pg219

Forgot link and date 10/07/2010 3:21 am

Either way, FatCat -

I think that Terri had at one time wooed the Landscaper and made him believe she was a victim - that she needed aid of some sort. That led into further conversations between she and he. Could have happened within days or a week .. idk. But she somehow portrayed herself to him as a woman in need or neglect.  ( Little did he know she has a bit of Black Widow within her/ this I truly believe where it has to do with Kyron or not - jmo)

With LS guy, things went into other directions, and it was of Terri's benefit. She was getting attention that she herself has noted on her facebook. She typed "to most, to many"
as if she was a single Mother of One - being Kiara. 

* She showing distance-  from her marriage and of her everyday life with Kaine, Kyron, James and Kiara. 

Her own words within her facebook ~ That she was " feeling left out" - Her words not in context:  Where is Kaine, I did all this yard work, carpet cleaning yadda, I am tired. He better get his axx home. 

I want for my 40th Birthday - last notation of the Birthday list, a Kiss from my Husband.

*Being that Terri was raised to be an over achiever by her parents. That she was to be noted in all " sports" and be recognized. Her tremendous amount of time spent within College to become a teacher ..yet never to become gainfully employed has had to have some recourse on her.

Me thinking too that she see's those who have achieved " without the college she has taken on, without the degrees backing them" as her resume states - she would be very angry or even offer them callous/insensitive reactions .. because in her mind, she was highly more qualified.

Hense Mrs. Porter being held to the grill every day, having to report " Kyron's colors" - which still I think it was about " Mrs. Porter" more so than it was of Kyron.  Terri knowing that Kyron had issues with his " Eyes" and him being a boy too. Boy's are noted to be slower than girls within the age range " academically".

From reading all that I have of Terri, she sounds to me as if she had a scheduled plan at one time. Created by her own self. And she tried and tried, and no matter how much she tried it kept going askew ..with her failed marriages, and failed attempts of being a business owner * first marriage.

Her personality wars with others. Her thinking the best of both worlds could be achieved by her accreditations/and her riding on the coat tails of " Men" - her ex's fronting the $ - so she could have her dreams. And all of it failed even still. All the equations were there and met " Education + Funding+ Opportunity" yet she never fit in. Never found employment within her dream. Only to be in her mind " 2nd rated as a Sub" ..Must have really ticked her off. Yet within all this failure, she would be able to " Point the Finger" at her Husband at the time, or her child at the time. Its because of " You" - its certainly not me.   

Because none of this was achieved by her own self. Nor, Her standing on her own two legs through the process. For her to find herself at blame would be almost ludicrous - that she was unable to achieve full time employment, as a teacher. It would have to be of another " to blame" not her. 

Knowing the need for Educators in the USA, and knowing that schools are seeking " People with credentials as educators " even with the lack of budgets - True educators will always find a place to be within, it may not be what they want at first, but if they truly want it ~ I would think it would work itself out in the long run. Building a reputation, building a hands on experience. Children wanting Mrs. Horman for their instructor/educator. Supply and demand.

Idk seems that Terri lives in a " Fantasy World"  I am a Teacher ..  sad but I think it is just that. :(




 

 ::HelloKitty::

MFH

sick of hubby.  No way to make a living.  Wants out, but doesn't want to be poor.

Hubby's life insurance, stock options, social security for Kiara and possibly paid off house if he had mortgage insurance.

So much more lucrative and easy than divorce.

Hellokitty

Has to be of something along that line " Train of thought" that Terri felt she could at one time - Get away with it and walk away clean. 

Gawd the thought of it, makes me ill. That people would stoop to such levels. But then I have seen it on CNN so many times - in the last 6 mos or so. Wife is arrested for MFH against Hubby.

Or Wife of " John Q. Public"  -reports his wife vanishes without a trace - Hubby is number one person of interest

 ::MonkeyConfused::

 :smt006 Rob

I seem to miss you every time your online here. Thank you for your words of my posts *in the past of Kyron. It's encouraging to say the least, that you offer here.

I hope you too do add more " Thoughts" here for Kyron. As Always, I look forward to your posts. 

 ::dogwag::

Sorry for the quote stack, it's all relevant tho.  This is a hot mess indeed!  I really feel for James.  Was really hoping that with his dad and the horses and all, he would have a chance to settle down a bit, be a teen without being around what seemed like so much turmoil.  And now?  Ummm.. sounds like he is right in the midst of it again, with Terri living with her parents, his grandparents, and him likely back n forth between there and his dads.  Major sighs.  Teenage years are hard enough, without his now likely feeling a bit responsible (?) for being supportive of his mom Terri.  Wish his dad lived a bit further away from Terri's parents, so James could have a moments peace, in what 'could have' been a peaceful environment for him.  Maybe I have it all wrong and life isn't so stressful for James with Terri around.  Just seems like it probably is.  IMO. 
 

I think I now have a working theory. It took me a very long time to get here, and I admit I could be wrong.

I normally start out thinking the alleged person is guilty and work back from there. In this case something seemed off from the start. As I examined the timeline of Terri Moulton I realized that it was impossible to abduct AND kill Kyron AND dispose of Kyron in the time frame that was INITIALLY disclosed. This timeline has tightened in the last few months.

Abducting and killing a child from a school is EXTREMELY risky. So many eyes, but no one sees anything, how could that happen? Yet, this is how it happened - allegedly. How could anyone pull this off?

I think the police were focused in the correct fashion when the crime occurred. How could you not suspect a step mother? And, afterall, many thought the same thing.

I think the police have known for a very long time what happened, and it's not something they want to reveal. It's not entirely their fault, but there are POWERS THAT BE.

Who are they?

They ARE Immigration and Naturalization. And also ICE.

Remember when the case attracted all the Federal players and no one could figure why? Well, it was always an immigration issue.

The FBI is ALWAYS involved in a missing child case now. It started shortly after Natalee. It became a mandatory fact. This was pointed out a few times with posters linking the criminal criteria. ( Thank you to those that did ). But what of all the other agencies? Well, that's your first clue. This wasn't a normal missing / abducted / murdered child case.

You see, this case what finally disclosed as a "Shocker" when the sheriff (or the captain, I forget which right now) said they uncovered additional information that hurt alot of the people involved - meaning; the investigators and the police. It was something that many took to mean child porn, or Kyron was sold. And righyfully so. How could you not think that?

I thought something differently, and there was a clue in the media. A drunk driver killer a nun. Well, let's frame it correctly, an illegal immigrant drunk driver killed a nun walking.

You see, some times the killer is right under your nose, and uses multiple alias' to re-enter the country. America is the land of dreams, and many wish to come here and never be sent home. I feel for them. There is a readily available way to enter this country legally. Many choose another way. They often bring their bankrupt culture with them and have no desire to assimilate.

As the police discovered what happened - they realized that the FEDS were not going to allow this case to EXPLODE after the nun case and the case of the rancher shot dead and killed.

I believe this case is solved - and has been for quite some time. Politics is keeping the case open and some accused.

I believe that you all know who did this crime, but time will reveal what truly happened.

- j m o -



 

 ::HelloKitty::

I believe that the FBI has been involved in child abduction immediately for at least 20 years.

Hi Wyks,

I agree, it seemed as though James was really engaged into 4H and activities etc - keeping his brain afloat and living in an atmosphere to " stimulate him" into thinking of himself/his thoughts/his growing experience - being outdoors and active. And noting he was within a Loved/Safe/Environment.

The thought of being able to be a part of all that I have read of " James's new living status" - I would think most kids would love to be a part of it, heck I was 16 again .. I would love it.

Understanding his world of turmoil though, I don't know how he feels and cannot speak for him. I just pray for his Mental Health within all of this, this is too big for even an Adult to handle let alone a 16 yr old boy (( James~ Who loves Kyron, and Misses Him Dearly)) more so than any of us could ever realize. 

I pray that James doesn't feel guilt by association  " If I only would have, could have, should have " within any/all/or ? of his family - that it's not a living burden on his heart/mind today.

Being a Big Brother is like Gold and once you have that Age cross over it becomes even more important. Its like your little brother is sacred and if anyone would touch him, hurt him, it would be " justified" one way or another. Even if it were just to announce " I am James, Kyron's older brother "  that would be enough. Very Sad thinking about how James must feel.
 ::FlyingFrog::
 

Rob,

 I think I am gathering " what you have offered" and I understand too what your conveying.

If it has to do with an Illegal citizen it is within the " banter" of legalities --- between each country.. Possibly being Mexico and the US.

Because the jurisdiction is " Phantom" no one truly has enforcement - because the person is not a US Citizen - and then the other country ( possibly Mexico) is at a stay.

Being an illegal in the USA, a crime committed, by an illegal, * in the US, there comes legalities and so does sanctions - within our laws. It is no longer Local, County, or State, It automatically becomes Federal. And with that they can only do so much.

We cannot take them on legally, for their rights are not of the USA but of their own country.  So it becomes a Ping Pong game of " Chance" - One will give in and offer up " Political Asylum" for this person of speculation/Kyron's case?? ~ that is of pending charges/Felonies of US Law.
-- Adding
They do not want him on their soil either, knowing he is possibly a felon. They are not going to allow him back in. Not until the situation is cleared. The crime possibly committed on US Soil would be " Null" to Mexico and their jurisdiction.
 And yet at the same time, the US cannot prosecute him either.

Its called Tag Team at its finest. 

Deenie I so agree.  Kiara is still very young.and hopefully will grow to lead a productive life.  James.  Well he has been trucking around with his mother since the day he was born..she has placed herself as his only constant.  She made his bio Dad give up custody, made her second husband pay child support..when he had no real bond with the child..and then moved him into the current situation. 

God help James..he has been through much, heard much and seen much..IMO.

Terri, IMO, is unable to form a stable bond with anyone.  Not even her parents..seems she has only run back to them when she needed money..the restaurant..a place to stay..and now help with paying for an attorney.  Although I believe the attorney fees are being paid by a deposit on account for book and movie rights by a NY publisher.

In the end..this does not represent to me a good mother, step mother, wife or daughter..this is someone who has split with reality and lives in her own world of lies, physical comfort and satisfaction and money to support a life style sh could not afford on her own.

As always just my two cents..  Hoping Kyron is found soon to put an end to this heinous crime that Terri knows more about then anyone else.

JMHO.

As for the illegal gardener/Terri's lover (I think that woman would do anyone *blush), it does not come off as any good to have been asked to be a MFH months ago and not gone immediately to authorities. Kyron is missing and then he tells authorities and helps with the sting. What on earth did he do to think he should be paid $10,000.00?

Mulling over Rob's post...I am so confused, I do not know what to think. I still feel in my gut it was a sexually motivated crime. Enter immigrants...that's certainly possible too.

Earlier you all were talking about LE asking Terri personal questions about the landscaper on the polygraph test.  How could that be?  Weren't the polygraphs taken before the sting with the landscaper and the detective?  They wouldn't ask her questions about him, if they were planning a sting.  Correct me if I'm wrong about that, but it doesn't make sense.

Deenie ~  Something about Terri's not being able to find a teaching job that might help explain a bit.

I don't know if it's this way in most states, but in Oregon, the rate a teacher must be paid is determined by the number of years they have been a teacher, AS WELL as their level of education.

My sister has been a teacher for the better part of 30 years.  When she was laid off from a 13 year gig at a private school (due to a conflict with one of the nuns), she decided to better herself and get her masters degree.  Getting that degree immediately drove her pay-rate up.  She has only been able to find one full-time teaching job since, and it was for a special education class, in which they could never keep a teacher for more than a year or two because of the stress and physical nature of it.  Since then, she has only been able to sub and tutor.

If a district can hire one teacher for $32K, but would have to pay $42K to one with a Masters degree, generally they will go with what saves them money.

Anyway...what I'm saying is, yes of course Terri was probably more qualified than many of the teachers they hired instead of her, but it was probably strictly a money thing.  I know this causes a great deal of anger for my sis, who would be HAPPY to work for less money, but it's not allowed. 

 ::HelloKitty::

Terri was not able to teach because of her DUI and reckless endangerment.  There was a waiting period for that issue in order for her to regain her teaching license.

Now that the period is over, she reinstated her license.  I am sure that there are plenty of teacher's out there without that on their records.

I doubt if that record will help her to ever get a job.

Here is the one thing we have to remember..RS was already part of an on going investigation prior to Kyron's disappearance. (IMO)

LE went to him..he didn't come to them.  Once they had Terri's cell and computer records they knew she was some how tied to him. 

He didn't come forward and say this crazied redhead asked me to off her husband.....he was implicated by Terri's cell or computer records...as well as her 911 calls. 

I think he has been on LE's radar prior to May..prior to her 911 call about harrassment.

I also think if the only thing RS ever did wrong in the USA was being here illegally..he wouldn't be on their radar..he would have been deported.

I still believe that RS and Terri have a much longer history then just since last November.  I don't know what that history is ..but I believe that his history, his friends, her needs and likes..have lead to her knowing who to depend on for Kaine's MFH and Kyron's disappearance.  You don't ask a casual friend to off your husband, you don't ask call LE because a person who does your yard work shows up to be paid.  Nope..

i know rehashing i just want to find kyron
Neighbor new Qs
about what time, did you arrive at the SF, and when did you notice the cones
are you sure it was the GK that blocked the spaces
and did the play area grass get cut that day,6/4/10

JMO
since the GK does the play area to, and has to drive the mower to the ball field
or vice versa, and from his statement, he was hoping the kids would not come down
to the field, that means he was doing the ball field last i think
my estimated time line of the GK
arrives at 7;45,unlocks chain,unloads and drives mower over to cut play area
so maybe around, 8;15 he is back to the ball field, so between 8;20-8;50 he
sees the kids, so kyron was not one of the kids, per principle's & TH statements
he/she said they saw TH taking the pic, and TH says they viewed the SF and
last saw him at 8;45,and TH says they arrived at 8;15
 whoops that does leave a 5min window, but you would think one of those kids
would have mentioned that kyron was with them, and if the cars are still parked there,how did the GK get out, im guessing the cars were gone by 9;00, when GK said he left, WAS kyron in one of those cars/trucks

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html?tab=video

recap of post

and this guy in the big pic,the LS, he looks familiar, maybe he was at
the candlelight vigils or a fundraiser, when i get time ill go back to pics and
vids and see if i see him

the LS
http://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Sanchez_201.jpg

photo's on Suavie Island - thanks again ubrmel  :thumleft:

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/sauvie%2010%2008%202010/

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/sauvie%2010%2008%202010/10.jpg)
This was along the pullout off Reeder Rd.. Somebody forgot their boxers..

Claycat,

I fully believe that they had to do that that day because the media had already connected Terri with RS.  It wasn't published yet, but look at the dates.  Kaine, Desiree and Tony have a press conference where they ask that WW and the Oregonian leave.  They are only answering questions that have been emailed..and a few during the presser.  The sting takes place a day or two later. 

The WW had already interviewed Terri alone at the home..they ask about the landscaping.  We all thought later they must have known.  They did not run this article until several days later...after the sting and Kaine moved out.

Since questions were emailed..everyone thinks this was Kaine's doing because he requested that prior to this presser..I disagree.  LE had set a precident, prior to that, requesting all questions be emailed first by the press.  LE was fully in control and knew that WW and the Oregonian had already matched up Terri and RS..they did not want this coming out.

But because it was obviously known by those two sources..now they had to move quickly with the sting and hope for the best.

Hope that made some sense..it is late and I am ready for the Monkey bunky .

Peace and hugs..night nite

CW  ::MonkeyAngel::

We all want Kyron found. Its all this gibber and gabber that is only known as " Wild speculations" to be conceived prior to Kyron being missing. The MFH plot and the landscaper etc..

I wish I didn't have to think about a landscaper and a MFH plot - it seems so " out of the realm" to even be understood let alone believable.

And for Gmaw who posted back to me - I have nothing to offer, and never have said that " Terri is 100 percent guilty of anything"  I feel your passion  :smt049 and just wanted to clarify - I do not know any more than anyone else. 

All is speculation and none of us know anything.

I think all of us here, We are all on the same page, and that is Finding Kyron.

photo's on Suavie Island - thanks again ubrmel  

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/sauvie%2010%2008%202010/

This was along the pullout off Reeder Rd.. Somebody forgot their boxers

from
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8694.msg1243721#msg1243721

one boxer shot is good
so this is a regular event, one of those hide away sex
places in the wood, or near that nude beach place

The photo of the blue material with stripes - looks like a PJ Top or pants " bottoms", I think it is a top though, showing a sleeve cuff

Boxers even the more expensive ones - do not have cuffs or trim work 

They have elastic at the hip area but no cuffs  - I know I have bought many a pair to wear myself.
I have worn them over my bathing suits or even just around the house. Boxers with the U butt sewn - not the straight up sewn like shorts. Those are the cheaper version/ones sewn like a pair of shorts. The U sewn boxers are usually higher quality and offer comfort to men for a reason.  More open space to be able to be free ......

 No cuffs anywhere or detail of such on them - unless it was again at the waist line - jmo.

cw,
I arrived there around 8:30am and noticed the cones.
Anybody could have put the cones there, but the GK did so other times.
I did not look at the grass that day.

so the overflow of parked cars/trucks where there on the dirt road when you arrived
and TY

Suavie Island is a beautiful place.  One way in and one way out, to bad there wasn't a camara on that bridge so we could just exclude it.

Hello Monkeys,
Since day one I thought that Kyron is in the school buried somewhere. All the show about kyron being seen in the school the day of the science fair is for a sick reason. Terri or her friend the gardener may know of a place in the school that a kid could "have" an "accident like a hole or an uncovered duct, i don't know.....but Sometimes I think that they killed kyron somewhere else and somebody else brought kyrons body hours after his dead to the school to be buried.

oooo! shivers
the school is on a hill, maybe a drain off or old defunct sump pump

Thanks, Gypsy!  I understand that he was already on their radar, but it doesn't seem like they would tip their hand and question Terri about him when they were planning a sting.  That wouldn't be too bright.  However, if that is what happened, that may have been one way they bungled the case.  If they questioned her about him during the polygraph test, of course it would make her suspicious when he shows up at her door a few days later. 

Looked at all the images in that album and came across this one:

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image17.png)
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/sauvie%2010%2008%202010/?action=view&current=24.jpg

Sky blue oil drum?

just want to clear this up for ubrmel... these are not from any search today ...there was not anyone out there searching today that ubrmel saw... the pics were taken today but no searchers were seen...

here is what ubrmel told me

I do want to clarify to them or their admin that there was NO searchers that I saw today, I just took pictures.
I clarified that on WS but when it gets carried over to other sites, they say thanks UBRMEL for todays "search" photos..