Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Hoping Kyron can be found while we're here in thread # 35.   ::MonkeyAngel::

2 many windows open at once and gave you guys the wrong link at lockdown, lol.....sorry  ::MonkeyJnBox::

Is everything done right now?? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

It's all good Nut.   ::MonkeyKiss:: 

Looks good to me ::MonkeyCool::

Phew.....the link was wrong, I have no clue where I sent everyone, lol.

They're probably on their way back here.  (http://bestsmileys.com/cars/4.gif)

We sure miss you little guy!  ::MonkeyAngel::

Your family is patiently waiting your return!  ::MonkeyAngel::

(http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Sections/TVNews/Dateline%20NBC/_GRIDs/Promo%20Images/Kyron%20Update%20Promo%20FRIDAY.grid-5x2.jpg)

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/09/5435442-nov12-searching-for-kyron-mean-girls

Nov.12: 'Searching for Kyron', 'Mean Girls'

This Friday at 9pm/8c on Dateline NBC...

The disappearance of 7-year old Kyron Horman made national headlines in early June 2010, and has since left family and friends desperately searching for answers. "Dateline's" Kate Snow continues her reporting on the case and uncovers new details, including reports from eyewitnesses about what they saw the day Kyron went missing, allegations from Kyron's father about his wife Terri, and interviews with Terri's friends who are speaking out in her defense.

A teenage party girl finds herself at the center of a murder mystery when her older boyfriend is brutally attacked and dies. Though the killer is convicted and thrown in jail, the case is reopened years later when a confession letter leads to more arrests within a close group of friends who were hiding a big secret. Keith Morrison reports.

The Dateline show is actually 2 hours long, so hopefully Kyron will have 1 hour of air time. This will be wonderful in bringing Kyron back to the front.  ::MonkeyAngel::

We have to keep this alive for Kyron!

Desiree, you know we're not giving up on Kyron!  ::MonkeyAngel::

Prayers to everyone searching and to Kyron's family. 

May someone come forward that leads LE and searchers to Kryon.

Someone will give up the info LE needs..I feel sure of that.  Whoever took Kyron was part of a finely knit group..but groups do break a part..and sometimes LE helps give their members  a reason to become the hero.  I still beieve LE  has the perps in their sights..some things take longer then we like but result in an arrest that sticks.

It was a bumpy ride but I made it.  ::MonkeyBike::

Still wanting Kyron home! Where are you, little guy? ::MonkeyEek::

Preview of Dateline special aired on Today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40148378#40148378 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40148378#40148378)

If someone can imbed this in the thread, please do.

Thanks, Klaas!
 ::monkeywine2::

Thanks Klaas.  Wow.  I'll have to set it to record tonight since I won't be home.  Come home Ky!

Really sounds as if it is going to be a good show. So happy it is airing. 

Wouldn't it just be over the top awesome to see Kyron and his mama together? I recall one interview she said she will not stop until he is sitting right here, then she patted her lap. I pray every night that comes true.

Where is Kyron?

The photo of Desiree and Kyron shown in the the Dateline preview is a sweet one.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40148378#40148378

In the preview linked above, Desiree responds to the new allegations from Kaine, about Terri having been under the influence of alcohol in the evenings, leaving Kiara unsupervised.  Desiree says she would have had him out of that home in a second.  It is all so sad!

Praying that the Dateline program will motivate someone to come forward.  May Kyron be found and may justice be set in motion.  We love you, little buddy!

New on KGW.com, it sounds like Kaine filed another motion:

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-Terris-silence--107562544-kyron-missing-portland.html

Thanks, monchichi.

This might be considered Kaine's response to the offer of compromise from Terri's lawyers. They demanded requested a response by last Friday. This latest move should do nicely.

From Nov. 3:
"Terri Horman's lawyers also noted they have presented a full offer of compromise, essentially what they described as "a very reasonable proposal to resolve every issue in the divorce proceeding." But they have not received a response from Kaine Horman's attorney, who has until Friday."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/terri_moulton_horman_withdraws.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/terri_moulton_horman_withdraws.html)

And here is another article from oregonlive:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_may_seek_sanction.html

Kaine says he has received information leading him to believe TH knows something, and it sounds like they will try to use the failed LDTs in the civil suit.

Yes, I think it is a very effective response!

Oh-ho! Just glanced at the document. It's Stephen Houze's copy. Interesting.
 ::monkeywine2::

Here is his new filing:

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/kaine+horman+court+1112.pdf

 ::HelloKitty::

She wants spousal support.

Cold day in he**?

Transcribed from Kaine's motion, page 7:


     "The fact that Mother's own attorney has advised the court that Mother intends to plead the Fifth speaks volumes about what Mother has to hide.  An attorney in a civil action is bound by the provisions of OCRP 17C, which provides that, before Mother's attorney can submit an argument in support of a pleading, that attorney certifies that the position is based on reasonable "knowledge, information and belief, formed after the making of such inquiry as is reasonable under the circumstances."  One can only infer that Mother will not speak because her testimony will lead to criminal liability for Kyron's disappearance.  Until Mother denies the allegations, there can be no other inferences drawn."

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/kaine+horman+court+1112.pdf
--

 :smt045 BINGO.  LE has not formally accused Terri or called her a suspect.  However allegations HAVE been made in this civil case.  What say you, Terri?

Kyron's Dateline broadcast will be aired less than an hour from now.  Sometimes this kind of publicity for a case leads to breaks for investigators... We can only hope. 

Zahra has been found, bless her sweet heart... Now it's Kyron's turn.   :smt051

Any legal eagles around? I have a question.

I have always thought that when pleading the 5th, it has to be the response to all questions asked in court, i.e., one cannot pick and choose which questions to answer and which to plead the 5th. If a question is answered, then pleading the 5th can no longer be used. Is this true?

Does it depend on the state? State versus Federal court? Courts versus Senate hearings.

If this requires an answer of 200 words or more, forget it. I don't listen to court cases or Senate hearings anyway. I wait for the final results.
 ::MonkeyGavel::

:smt102 Not much of an eagle, legal or otherwise.  However, for "under 200 words," I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleading_the_Fifth
Pleading the Fifth

"If the defendant does answer any question put by the prosecutor during the proceeding, the protection of the Fifth Amendment is lost."

[and:]

"The U.S. supreme court ruled that the right against self-incrimination applies whether the witness is in a federal or state court (see Malloy v. Hogan, 378 U.S. 1 (1964)), and whether the proceeding itself is criminal or civil (see McCarthy v. Arndstein, 266 U.S. 34 (1924))."
--


Hmm, and a little o/t, I thought this was interesting, too, in light of the argument in Kaine's motion:


Refusal to testify in a civil case

While defendants are entitled to assert that right, there are consequences to the assertion of the Fifth Amendment in a civil action.

The Supreme Court has held that “the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976). “[A]s Mr. Justice Brandeis declared, speaking for a unanimous court in the Tod case, ‘Silence is often evidence of the most persuasive character.’” Id. at 319 (quoting United States ex rel. Bilokumsky v. Tod, 263 U.S. 149, 153-154 (1923)). “‘Failure to contest an assertion...is considered evidence of acquiescence...if it would have been natural under the circumstances to object to the assertion in question.’” Id. (quoting United States v. Hale, 422 U.S. 171, 176 (1975)).

In Baxter, the state was entitled to an adverse inference against Palmigiano because of the evidence against him and his assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege.
--

::MonkeySlide::

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/missing25.gif)

Kyron's segment on NBC's "Dateline" now.

I really like Kaine's attorney, Laura Rackner. She isn't putting up with any of Terri's bullsh!t!

Thanks, Desdemona. Perfect answers!!!
 ::monkeywine2::

Is anyone else watching Dateline?  Kyron segment almost over ....

I'm still waiting on the West Coast.  I'm really hoping the Blazers game doesn't interfere with Dateline...

I watched most of it, but missed some bits and pieces. Totally missed the last 5 mins or so when Terri's friends talked. I didn't pick up anything new, and just wanted to see if anyone else does.

I was afraid there wouldn't be any new info.  Well, at least it's keeping his name out there, and I suppose it is new info for people who haven't been following closely like all of us monkeys.

How cute!  Brrrr! 

So, what is the consensus on the Dateline show?  Thanks to those who did and have commented.  I did not get to watch.

I thought the Dateline segment on Kyron was very well done. Great photography, lots of old clips, some new, and I am glad it was shown to keep Kyron's story out there.

Me, too.  We were out and got back just a few minutes into the show.  I watched and am glad that it was aired for those who have not followed the case. 

It was a good show, but I didn't learn anything new. Every time there is a national program featuring Kyron, more people hear and learn about him. There is always the hope that it will reach someone who knows something and will contact LE.

Dateline may know more than what was shown, but LE and Dateline's legal team might work together to protect the investigation.

 ::HelloKitty::

I can't be objective.

I thought that the questions raised about TH were not really rebutted.

It appears that the high school friend has not seen her for 22 years?  I don't know what kind of testimony that could be.

Yes, speaking from limited personal knowledge, I believe you are spot on.  (BBM)

I am appreciating reading everyone's thoughts about the impact of the show.  So, the consensus seems to be that the material was not new to us who have followed the case closely, but that NBC did an overall good job of getting Kyron and his story out there, and keeping the spotlight on the fact that he has not been found and needs to be --- like, yesterday.

NBC Web Exclusives

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/)

Listed under "Searching for Kyron" photo and blurb.

- Why is Terri Horman keeping quiet?
- A public plea from Kyron Horman's father
- Terri Horman's past as a champion bodybuilder

Her high school friend was the only one who would agree to be interviewed on air. Kinda' sad, but I get the feeling that not many people want to speak about the investigation and those involved other than Kyron.

I agreed with that as I watched. How could he know what she is like NOW?

I also felt sad for his classmate who prays for Kyron every night.

Ugh, the game is still on, still waiting for Dateline...

Because of the game they just said that the portion that is missed on Dateline tonight will be shown at 3am tomorrow!  ::MonkeyEek::

I enjoyed watching it.

It was also a good refresher.

I left you a post, wantky, in my thread ;-)

Thank you, I don't know that I will be up that late!  I did catch most of it, but my own little ones got out of bed at the end and I missed the last few minutes as I was getting them back in bed.

One thing was confirmed for me (or at least if you take everything on the show to be accurate) and that was that NOBODY knew about the Dr.'s appt or that Kyron was having any medical problems like mini-seizures.  I don't know if that was previously confirmed, there has been so much speculation due to the lack of information.

Thanks Brandi! ::MonkeyAngel::

The show was interesting, I found the woman at the gym pretty believable. She had given her impression of Terri's personality. I had no reason to not believe her.
The high school friend, from what I gathered he has been in contact with her from high school but I think it was just through the internet, so who knows.

The former prosecutor was interesting and had tid bits for each side of the "terri did it" debate.

I am still on the fence. Therefore, I return to what I normally do, research. I am looking at Sex offenders in the area. I found one in the hillsboro area. Hillsboro is the area Terri visited the 2nd store, for some reason, after that time, her phone supposedly pinged on Suave. 

JAMES FRANKLIN KEMP
Address:6983 S W LOIS STREET, HILLSBORO, OR 97123  Race:White  Sex:Male  Height: 5' 5   Weight: 160 lbs.   Eyes:Blue  Hair:Brown  Age/DOB: 1/5/1978
Solicitation of minor to engage in acts constituting crimes against nature - Any other offense committed in another state for which registration is required in that state
  Conviction Date: 4/14/1998
From what I can gather, the charge has to do with a person of the same sex.

This person is moving I would assume because the home is for sale. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6983-SE-Lois-St-Hillsboro-OR-97123/52696912_zpid/
(It should be noted, a sex offender after repeating a crime is known to leave the area he onced lived, ie john gardner.)

Not sure if it a forecloser or a for sale by owner. I think the later but not sure. I looked at the home on google street view and there is a red car that looks like a red mustang, ie the report on sauvie island the morning of 7/10, fact or fiction, rumor or not we don't know. I am working on finding more about him, where he works or where others who live with him work. I have not found a hit on myspace or facebook as of yet.
If anybody is interested in researching this case, perhaps we can start a thread. I am only interested in research. I would like to start with Sex offenders living in the area's Terri was said to visit that day, Beaverton, Hillsboro and Sauvie. If this sounds like something you would like to do, please let me know.
 

re Part b refusal to testify in a civil case.

Hope this will apply to Terri!   ::MonkeyGavel::

Thank you Desdemona!  ::MonkeyJustice:: ::MonkeyJustice:: ::MonkeyJustice::

 ::HelloKitty:: That guy really creeped me out!  Gave me the willies.

Kyron's smiling face in most of the pic's got to me.  What a wonderful little boy.  He brought so much joy to Kaine and Desiree and many others.

Your little friend is waiting for you Kyron - He spoke of how keen you were on red frogs.  He has trouble sleeping.  You mattered and we wait for you to be brought home.

 ::FlyingFrog:: ::FlyingFrog:: ::FlyingFrog:: ::FlyingFrog:: ::FlyingFrog:: ::FlyingFrog:: ::FlyingFrog::

 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel::

Ditto!  Do you think he was one of the 5 men she talked about in her texts?  He seemed more like a former boyfriend hoping to reconnect!

Opps!   Post above, got it within the last quote.   Mine starts with "his view" and ends with "Susan Smith."

Not sure what his story was, is he just naive or does he know Terri better then just high school and most recently on facebook. I will say one thing, he is a brave man for doing the interview. 

 ::HelloKitty::

TH said that she drove around with the baby, but she didn't know where

The phone pinged on Sauvie.

She would know if she went to Sauvie or not;hence the disbelief by Desiree on TH not knowing what she had done that day.

To me, that raises the old hinky meter sky high

 ::HelloKitty:: Interesting info.......I can search the clerk of court records and see if the home is in short sale, pre-foreclosure or foreclosure if you'd like, just give me the county.

Also, I have been reading all summer but not posting so much as we've had alot going on here and IRL, but I have so many questions:

1) What was the consensus about the text that Blink posted, is it that they are fruit of the poisionous tree or just something else?

2) How often did Kyron go visit his mom, was it every other weekend (as it should be) and who took him? Was it whomever was available because I thought I read early on it was Terri - but there is so much that is fact I wanted to double check?

3) I was happy to see a full hour devoted to this sweet little boy on Dateline last night, it answered on question about where Kitty was as I wondered if she really went to the Science Fair with Terri or not, but did find it odd nobody from the school mentioned it, unless I missed that part, so did another monkey catch that part or was it only the woman in the FM store that saw Terri with Kitty?

4) Does anyone know where the LS wife and kids are?

5) Has there been anything else reported about the man who looked like the turf tech who was mowing at Skyline and the attempted abduction of another child, IIRC the sketch looked so much like him it was freaky?

6) IIRC in the beginning LE mentioned that Kristian H was part of the investigation, has that been kept close to the vest because I don't recall much more info ever being released from LE.

7) Do we know and I am only asking since I recall Blink mentioning the polygraph and "not knowing what questions" Terri failed, so has that ever been established thru her sources?

8) Has anyone ever read or seen "Along comes a Spider" by James Patterson......in the book/movie a child was removed from the school by a teacher in a small file cabinet type box, you know when they roll TV's into the school rooms on carts, well this was like that cart on wheels and the teacher just knocked the child out and put him in this "cabinet", loaded in his SUV and kept the child on a boat? I know it sounds preposterous but ppl do emulate what they see in movies etc when committing crimes (although it's rare, it has happened) and other than Terri I have wondered about anyone on the campus such as a janitor, substitute etc having access to kids as it does seem security there was lax by my standards and any school my children ever attended?


I am still shocked there has been no movement in this case as in an arrest, and I can only imagine the hell the family is going thru  ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad:: and it is infuriating to see it linger without anything solid. I just pray LE does have so much more than they have released and something that will stick in a court of law. I know they owe nothing to the public, but it reminds me so much of Haleigh's case and I would be pizzed if it ends up like that with no resolution as to his disappearance and likely death, but just other charges. I want whomever did this to pay and pay dearly for taking Kryon from his loved ones. It broke my heart to see Desiree last night when she talked about "if I knew about Terri's drinking and passing out every night etc, I would have him out of that house ASAP".........and even though KH isn't responsible, you know Desiree must have some resentment after learning that, and I wonder if she ever knew about Kristian and the arrest, because I would have snatched my child custody or not if I thought they were around child molesters in the family. I know KH must be greiving and also thinking back to "what if I had never brought Terri into my life", and that must be an extremely difficult burden to bear on top of Kyron disappearing. Also, this isn't going to make me very popular but after reading and following Zahra's thread I am looking back at these cases where the father had custody (Kaine Horman, Ron Cummings and Adam Baker" and to me it seems as they all invited the devil inside by thinking with the wrong head.............just rambling thoughts and a rant, but if anyone has the answers to the questions I posted I'd appreciate it-I just want to make sure I haven't missed anything.

God Bless Kyron ::MonkeyAngel::

Well I finally got to watch the recorded Dateline episode. Unfortunately, I missed the first 24 minutes because of the basketball game, which I'll have to listen to when it's posted.

3 things stuck out at me when watching this show......

1. It's the first time I ever heard Terri speak.

2. The 'friend' from the gym kept mentioning that Terri was always tired. She mentioned it several times. I don't think it was from drinking. I don't know about you, but when I am near someone who is drinking, I can clearly smell it. It's like being hit by a brick wall. The smell is intense. Could she have been on anti-anxiety medication? Smoking pot? Little sleep? I don't know.

3. The other thing that has always bothered me. On TH's FB, http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8263.0 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8263.0) she made a comment which always left me wondering why at the beginning of Kyron being missing she said " Terri Moulton Horman If you attended RHS with me and are in Eugene, OR please let me know." Why would she ask that question? Then, who shows up on Dateline exonerating her is a long time High School Friend. I personally don't believe squat into anything he said. Dear God, he hasn't even seen her since High School. My point is though, why would she ask that question? Did she know what was about to come and she wanted to either hook up with someone from her past, or was she slowly building a group of people that would vouch for her as being a 'good person who loved children'.

My opinion right now is that TMH had pre-meditated Kyrons demise and worked diligently to have herself look like an innocent victim and will continue to do so by hiding behind her high priced lawyer and keeping her mouth shut.

All IMO.

1. That was not Terri speaking if you are talking about the voice-over for the emails. It was pointed out that it was not Terri ... maybe before the game ended.

2. She could have been playing "victim" and acting tired, but there are many reasons for being tired. If she were drinking vodka and taking showers, using fragrant lotions, chewing mints, etc., she could possibly get away with being hungover, especially in a smelly gym (even the cleanest ones smell).

3. Good question. I don't have an answer, but maybe she was looking for someone in particular. The guy in the program never should have agreed to the interview, but he did, and it was lame. Since others refused to be interviewed on air, he might have been the best choice of who would agree to an interview. Not everyone presents well in front of the camera. Dateline needed someone pro-Terri to balance the program.

Yeah. If Terri was responsible for Kyron's disappearance, I would believe also that it was premeditated. There were too many odd things going on leading up to that Friday plus the things that happened that Friday. Way too many coincidences.

Divers out on Sauvie Island today searching the water for Kyron. They will return again tomorrow. Lets pray they find something this time. Before the River and local waterways get way too swift and high to be searched safely.

Saw it on the news at 5;00pm KPTV. 

Hey Grey!

BBM

There was a few second clip of Terri on the sliding board with James when he was young and she said " Do you want to go down the slide with me?".

As far as the booze, you can NOT cover it up with mints, perfume, etc. The smell is too overwhelming. It may be because I have a good sniffer  ::MonkeyDevil:: but I know booze when I smell it!  ::MonkeyWink::

I think that not only did she plan this, but I also believe she had help and I think that person(s) is going to eventually cave.

MOO

It is sad that the basketball game preempted the first part of the Dateline program in the Portland area. To me, it was the first part of the program that was most important. National exposure is nice, but I would think local exposure of this case is more important. Perhaps the station will run the Kyron segment again very soon with a lot of promos to ensure good viewership.

At least they may have picked up some sports fan viewers who might not have watched the program if it were not for the game.

Thank you LD1! They keep going there, so there has to be a reason. I just wish someone would speak up, meaning someone who knows, meaning Terri.

Gosh, let him come home.  ::MonkeyAngel::

We'll be able to watch it on hulu.com. It will just take a few days.

I just want to say thank you Grey for keeping this thread alive. I've noticed you being here just about every day. All of the Monkeys have been great keeping the Kyron thread alive. I may not agree with everything you post but your dedication has been wonderful!  ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyKiss::

I must have missed the sliding board clip. Someone decided to go to town on their squeaky toy during parts of the program, especially the first part, and he would have gone into shock if I dared to take away his toy. Darn dog.

I went to college near a military school, and I would shock the cadets when I would ask if they were drinking Vodka when I wasn't even close to them and we were outside. Yeah, I can spot the stuff easily. I don't recall noticing a booze smell on people who are hungover or just slow from having a few drinks the night before unless they had way too much booze. Three or four drinks should be not be "oozing" from the pours ten to twelve hours later. If you think the smell is overwhelming the next day, you must be sensitive to a lot of smells. If she were drinking during the day instead of hungover from the night before, it would be easy to notice.

If she had help and the other person(s) folds, LE might be caught with a he-said-she-said situation, but I also think they will have enough other info to target her. If Terri is responsible, with or without help, she may have thought everyone would go along with whatever she said without question and not cover her tracks sufficiently. Desiree said Terri was surprised that Desiree would head for Portland immediately, and that leads me to believe Terri did not think things through. Even if Terri were not involved, she should have expected Desiree to head for Portland as soon as she heard her son was missing.

So, where does this go from here? Will Terri cave? NO way in He**. What does her attorney plan? Will this become a civil suit? Will Desiree sue Terri, and have info that would not come out in a criminal case, just to find out where Kyron is?

I personally think,that Desiree or Kaine is going to pursue this civilly so they get the answers they need.  Civilly, the court allows much more info than the criminal courts. They will work around this one way or another.  JMO

Thanks for the info and link.

*fingers crossed*

I have a really dumb question. It looks like the word "Search" is added to the sign. What is under "Search", i.e., what is "in progress" when it is not a "Search"?

Wow, thanks, Lazydog!

Quote from Grey

<snipped>



As far as the booze smell, my parents were hard core alcoholics, which is why I swore to never touch the stuff. The smell is absolutely vile to me which is why I am so sensitive to the smell.

Re: Terri being surprised about Desiree coming to Portland. I firmly believe, as I've said before, I don't believe for one moment that Terri thought this would turn into a nationwide case. I think she thought it would be put on the school and her previous comments of Kyron having some kind of seizures. I think this was a lead up to them believing that Kyron walked away so Desiree wouldn't have a need to travel to Portland because he'll be home soon, giving her more time to cover up her crime.

I also believe she was drugging this poor boy prior to him going missing.

Again, and always, IMO.

Terri has a problem with her attorneys in that her criminal attorney is interfering with her divorce attorney and case.

Kaine is going after her through the divorce court, and it seems his lawyer is on the offensive full speed. I would not be surprised if Kaine and Desiree are already preparing for a civil case against Terri. They need to see what happens with the divorce first. Terri will have no funds available to face a criminal case just because of facing a divorce case and a civil case.

For a civil case, Kaine and Desiree may need info from LE that cannot be released because of the ongoing criminal investigation. Decisions will have to be made, but Kaine and Desiree will not go away. They want to know what happened to their son.

Ya' know, there are plenty of people who get lawyers when they are involved in some way with a criminal investigation. Sometimes the lawyers help their clients work with LE, and sometimes they do not let their clients speak at all. I understand the rationales for both. What I do not understand is threatening to plead the 5th with an innocent client. Time for sassifrass to sniff around.
 ::monkeywine2::

I the teacher noticed odd behavior or "spacing out" for only about two weeks before Kyron disappeared, drugs are a definite possibility.

BBM

I think I'll pass on that one my friend!  ::MonkeyDevil::

She's pleading the 5th because she has no other choice. If she talks, she becomes a POI. They're playing it smart. For her, NOT for Kyron. It's all about Terri.

The other thing I'm wondering about Grey is if a civil case can be started before a criminal case is even started. I think I'll have to look up the legal detail of that.

IF either one of them started a civil case, will that hamper the criminal case? I think we need a Monkey that knows Oregon law.

I haven't seen it but, is it "and Rescue" that is covered?  :(

If they need info from LE for the civil case, LE may refuse because of the ongoing investigation or pending court case. I have heard of civil cases being brought before the criminal cases, so it can be done. Sometimes it can benefit the criminal case. I doubt Kaine and Desiree will do anything to hamper a possible criminal case. If they do go forward before a criminal case, it might be with the blessing of LE, and LE will be there to pick up anything that might help their investigation.

Although some criminal investigations go on for years, this one might be solved within a year's time, but we cannot do anything to hurry it along. LE seems to be looking for a body, but we do not know what else they are investigating in relation to Kyron's whereabouts. Whatever LE is doing, Kaine and Desiree seem to be comfortable with the investigation.

There's a photo at the link. It looks as though it is covering one word. The type size for "Search" is the same as on the sign base, so there is only room for one word. Perhaps they attach different words and there is a blank on the base. Just curious.

 ::HelloKitty::

I wonder if dateline paid for those videos of TH?

Hmm.  Maybe Recovery?  I think I've seen those before, but don't recall.

Yea Terri is taking the advice of her attorney and not talking at all, nothing, nada, nil. If she is guilty this is what she will do until she is tied to the crime. If she is not guilty, there is nothing she can really say. If she comes out and says she is not guilty, everybody will just scream she is lying. Guilty or not, she aint talking!

I get the feeling from Desiree finding Kyron is the #1 goal. I believe her when she says she will never stop looking. I know one day she will find him. I was thinking about her all day. When she said if she had just known she would have taken him from that house, I believe that with every fiber of my being. Ugh it is just so sad to me. 

Good post and you bring up some good points and ask some of the questions I am still stuck on.

That is my thought.

Depression can make a person very tired but it could have been from drugs. She said something about her seeming a bit unstable, that concerned me although I don't know what she really meant by unstable since she doesn't seem to believe Terri would have been able to hurt Kyron, especially in front of the baby.
I agree about the booze. My ex would always say if he drank vodka nobody would smell it... I sure smelled it every time so not sure what he was talking about. Sorry to read you were raised in a household that was affected by drinking.  I have always said, drinking has hurt more people then it ever helped. Usually children are the ones that suffer the most and have no choice in the matter. Makes me so sad to think this may have been the life Kyron was living at his home. I sort of hope Kaine is exaggerating....
Prayers for you Kyron... ::MonkeyAngel::

I don't know. 
Maybe wanted his five minutes of fame.  Maybe he was paid for the interview. 
If that's all the support that could be found (exception gym person) for Terri it doesn't count for much, imo.

I appreciated the coverage for Kyron and hope it will be shown in full
again in the Portland area.

Thank you Lazydog! 
Glad they will be returning today.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/107834189.html

(http://media.katu.com/images/111310_kyron_wall.jpg)

Kyron search: Dive teams back on Sauvie Island

By KATU News and KATU.com Staff November 13, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. – Dive teams from eight different agencies were back out on Sauvie Island Saturday, searching for clues to the disappearance of Portland elementary student Kyron Horman.

A spokesperson for the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office says about 50 people were part of the search, including paid workers and volunteers.

Multnomah County Sheriff Public Information Officer Mary Lindstrand tells us the search was only in the water. Near the end of the day Saturday Lindstrand said searchers "found nothing of note" – that she can tell us about.

Lindstrand said the dive teams will be at the search again on Sunday.

This search comes just days after Kyron's father Kaine reiterated to a Multnomah County Court judge that he thinks his estranged wife, Kyron's stepmother Terri, had something to do with his then-7-year-old boy's disappearance from a Skyline School science fair. In the most-recent court filing, Kaine asked a judge to sanction Terri in some way if she refuses to testify in court.

http://www.kptv.com/news/25786885/detail.html

(http://www.kptv.com/2010/1114/25787863_640X480.jpg)

Search Crews Return To Sauvie Island In Kyron Case
Authorities Look For Clues In Disappearance

POSTED: 8:30 pm PST November 13, 2010
UPDATED: 12:43 am PST November 14, 2010

MULTNOMAH CO., Ore. -- Multnomah County Sheriff deputies said they returned to Sauvie Island to look for any clues in the Kyron Horman disappearance but wouldn't comment on exact search locations or why things seem to be focused around the water.

This is the first time since mid-October that search crews were on the island and deputies say Saturday dive teams were in the water looking for clues.

"We just feel really sad that he's still missing," said Linda Richardson of Sauvie Island.

Pastor Russell Richardson prayed for Kyron Horman's family during an early community Thanksgiving dinner.

"Our concern, of course, is for the family and for those doing the searching," said Pastor Richardson.

Eight law enforcement agencies and fire departments helped in Saturday's search and Multnomah County Sheriff's Investigators say more searchers will be out on Sauvie Island Sunday.

They didn't say if a new lead prompted them to search the island again, or if it was just a follow-up to other recent searches.

"Our prayers are with the family of course. In fact we pray for them every week," said Richardson.

Kyron disappeared from Skyline School in Northwest Portland on June 5.

(http://media.kgw.com/images/100910_kyron_sauvie_search.jpg)

http://www.kgw.com/home/related/newkyronsearch-107821564.html

Divers search for Kyron

Credit: KGW News

Divers search for Kyron

by KGW Staff
Bio | Email | Follow: @KGWNews

kgw.com

Posted on November 13, 2010 at 6:02 PM

Updated yesterday at 7:23 PM

PORTLAND - The search for Kyron Horman resumed Saturday.

More than four dozen searchers were diving into bodies of water on Sauvie Island, the first time they had been back on the island in about a month.

Officials told KGW that the operation had been planned for several weeks but that they had had to wait for resources to become available from other agencies.

The search is expected to continue Sunday.

 "It broke my heart to see Desiree last night when she talked about "if I knew about Terri's drinking and passing out every night etc, I would have him out of that house ASAP".........and even though KH isn't responsible, you know Desiree must have some resentment after learning that,"
Snipped.

I felt a long time ago when we were all wondering why Kaine seemed to be evasive about Terri and changing what he was saying about her that there was trouble in the house that he kept from Desiree. No one could have foreseen that she would harm Kyron, IF she did, but I agree that in too many of these cases where there is some prior custody dispute, the other non primary custodial parent is often in the dark because it is all about child support and God forbid that anything comes out to change that arrangement. I am assuming that Desiree was paying child support based on her income and if the shoe had been on the other foot, Kyron with Desiree, Kaine would have had to pay Desiree and it would have been based on his income. I am making assumptions, but I have known too many cases where custody has to be split and both parents fight tooth and nail for the kid, but in reality it is about not paying child support to the other one.
..
If Terri's financials have to be disclosed, then so does Kaines and if he has taken five cents for any of his interviews or selling of photos, that will come out.
.. I know my thoughts and views are unpopular here and that is why I don't post very often on this one. I dislike what we know of Terri, but I also dislike Kaine.

Thanks Klaas.  I am glad the task force is organized and ready to go and curious as to why they're focusing their search here.  If they have more, than just the pings of Terri's cell phone?

Video about the current search.  Click on the picture below to watch in photobucket:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/th_2155_1289748366_lowmp4_A7EAEE19.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/?action=view&current=2155_1289748366_lowmp4_A7EAEE19.mp4)

I'm glad they are searching, and just a question, if Kyron would be in the water and in some container then yes he may be found. But if he isn't in some kind of container, I'm not sure where this body of water goes, does it go into the ocean?  ::MonkeyNoNo::

NRCG It flows into the Multnomah Channel which eventually flows into the Columbia River. The Columbia River eventually flows into the Pacific ocean.

Hope that helps!  ::MonkeyWink::

Thank-you, this I hate to say reminds me of little Haleigh and the possibility that she was thrown in the river there in Satsuma. Hope this is not what happened to little Kyron  ::MonkeyNoNo::

As usual I am praying today is the day they bring our little frogman home. I would love to be a fly on the wall in Terri's current home. To watch her reactions to all the searches and such. Is she nervous that they will find him. If he is in a sealed container is it still possible to find finger prints on the inside of the container?

We can hope if he is in the water it is in an area where the current hasn't been swift all season. I just want him found. I want his parents to have some kind of closure. This whole thing is so terribly heart breaking.

LD1, I don't think they would find fingerprints because they probably wore gloves and if he is in a container in the water after all this time, I would assume that the decomposition of the body would interfere with any chance of gathering latent prints.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I think she may have been claiming tiredness when people commented on her haggard (nervous? anxious?) appearance. Easier than saying I'm anxious because I'm going to try and disappear my stepson. She also may have been spending nights on the Internet (cybersex?)before pretending to crash on the sofa from overdrinking, before Kaine awoke for work. Loads of speculation, I know.

Yes, I think you're right, she needed to hook up with as many possible supporters as possible. Possible future contributors to the THSP perhaps? Or could she have been looking for a possible financial replacement for Kaine?

BBM

I think the latter Scatty. I wouldn't doubt that she already had her eye hooks on someone.  ::MonkeyEek::

Your quote above made me remember someone I knew who used drugs but totally faked it from her husband by using drinking as a cover. I guess because alcohol was legal and the meth or coke was not. She smoked and drank to mask the effects of the other stuff. She was a sociopath in every way but thankfully was finally found out.

I listened to the show and my reaction was that Terri was depressed, defeated, sad....the relationship was just not working and Terri was unstable because she was so unhappy.  She said Terri always wore her feelings on her sleeve.

Thanks TG  ::MonkeyAngel:: I can get past some of those questions, but the one I am truly stuck on is "who drove Kyron to see Desiree"

After reading Kaine's response about her alcoholism and passing out on the couch and everthing he stated, he had to KNOW before others came forward, his response is crystal clear on that fact, but then I can not get past the fact that the kids would be left in Terri's care during the day, and am appalled she was allowed to make that drive with Kyron, after I read again the response below it defies logic IMO:
 ::monkeyscissors::

It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended. I don't give a rat's @ss, I would have intervened and if she was offended~so be it, my kids take priority over EVERYTHING, job included   ::MonkeyMad::

7. Respondent's alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara's attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.  As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.

See, I was in a (somewhat) similar situation when I found out my husband was self medicating with RX, I NEVER left my kids alone with him after I learned of it, and when I filed for divorce I made sure he was never allowed to take our son anywhere in a vehicle (my step kids made sure of it).....so, although I am sure he never in a million yrs imagined what would happen, but he had to understand the dangers of having a drunk driving his son that far, and if I intervened and my spouse was offended so be it........come hell of high water I would have made sure others were around to supervise and again that he would never be in a car with him EVER, anyone knows (or I would think) that an alcoholic with a previous DUI would be extremely dangerous, she could have been hung over and/or still drunk and had an accident that could have killed everyone in the car. So this point more than anything boggles my mind and Kyron deserved so much better. I would have relinquished custody to Desiree and put Terri in rehab, and if she refused to go and cooperate I would have filed for a divorce and since she had no legal right to Kyron that would have been the end, plus I would have brought this up to the judge in the divorce case to assure she had no unsupervised contact with Kiara. So while he couldn't have ever foreseen what happened he had to know that leaving the kids with her and worse yet, allowing her to drive with Kyron was an accident waiting to happen. I remember when I first noticed the distancing between Kaine and Desiree, and I wonder if she knew he knew more than he was telling, and in some way held him responsible for what happened?? You just never know, is it rational........prolly not in regards to Kyron disappearing, but is it rational that looking back she can see how this could have been prevented~I would say absolutely. I am at a loss for words watching Desiree's pain, first KH cheated on her when she was vunerable and pregnant with Kyron, and now looking back and learning what she has, prolly thinking "why didn't Kaine just let me have Kyron until this was settled", I feel she even worse for her. How many ppl here reading this wouldn't feel resentment at minimum or even stronger feelings of anger. If EVERYBODY had done right by Kyron, he would have been out of that home and this might have never happened. NOW, on the other hand, if this was not the complete truth and embellished then I can see why Kaine never felt like Kyron was in danger...........sadly we have read and heard 2 very different versions so what is the truth as it can't be both ::MonkeyNoNo:: And as I asked ealier I wonder when Desiree learned about Kristian Horman and his molestation charge and correct me if I am wrong as I have forgotten much, but wasn't the grandfather also accused?

I am in no way defending Terri (as I stated before I wouldn't pee on her if she was on fire), but I think someone else is involved and I am also not accusing Kaine of having any part whatsoever, BUT I do feel had he done the right thing in light of the alcoholism by letting Desiree have Kyron until he either got her in rehab and never leaving Kitty unspervised, I believe very strongly we may not even know the name Kyron Horman......and I wish like hell I didn't ::MonkeyTears:: ::MonkeyTears::

Hi,  I too want to thank everyone for keeping Kyron's site here alive. 

I've been racking my brain since I read Sassifrass' post about having a civil case preceed the criminal one.  I remember a recent case where the missing person had not yet been found before they had a civil case.  Which one ???     ::dogwag::

I really want to know if Kyron was flying back and forth to Medford as an unaccompanied minor.  I really find it hard to believe they always made that drive, especially every two weeks.  Even if they were meeting halfway, I think it would get old fast.  Does anyone (Sassifrass?) still have any connection to Desiree to find out about this?  Maybe they only did that a few times, to try it out or when it wasn't feasible to drive?

 ::HelloKitty::

Obviously, Kaine had some good times with TH or he would not have married her.  She had her DUI and must have bounced back from that.

He probably felt that she could do it again and perhaps that's what their big fight that almost led to divorce had been about.

I think people say to themselves, "If she does blah blah, then I will leave".  But the person usually does something good and then the cycle begins again.

I don't think things are black and white in a relationship and there are many twists and turns and lying to one's self and hoping.


I find that it's always so easy on the outside looking in as to what the answer are, but it's not easy for those in the relationship.

Perhaps Kaine hired a sitter, and both he and TH went to drop off Ky.  We don't know.

We don't know if Kaine went to bed and was woken up by the antics going on, when all appeared good earlier.

Or maybe James is the one that woke Kaine up or perhaps James objected to what was going on.  We simply do not know.

Video regarding the search at Sauvie Island today:

Kyron search: Dive teams back on Sauvie Island

Story Published: Nov 13, 2010 at 7:35 PM PST

Story Updated: Nov 14, 2010 at 7:02 PM PST

>snip<

The dive teams continued the search on Sunday, wrapping up around 5 p.m. as the skies turned dark.

"Water temperature is fine – depths are shallow – but the visibility's tough," said volunteer diver Jason Cottle from Skamania County.

The school where Kyron is believed to have vanished from, Skyline School, is just 10 miles from here. Even though the search is focused in the water, instead of on land, when you get a look at Sauvie Island you realize it's still a huge job.

From Google maps you can see Sauvie Island, northwest of downtown Portland, stretched out between the Columbia River and the Multnomah Channel. The north end of the island is mostly water, with huge shallow lakes criss-crossed by drainage canals. All of these waterways make up the 12,000-acre Sauvie Island wildlife area.

This is just one more step in a massive process of elimination.

"Hopefully, when we get this done, they'll know areas where we know we don't have to go back," Lindstrand told us. "But again, we may not finish with what we need to do because, as you know, this island is just covered with water."

This search comes just days after Kyron's father Kaine reiterated to a Multnomah County Court judge that he thinks his estranged wife, Kyron's stepmother Terri, had something to do with his then-7-year-old boy's disappearance from a Skyline School science fair. In the most-recent court filing, Kaine asked a judge to sanction Terri in some way if she refuses to testify in court.

On Monday, Nov. 15, Kaine will talk to reporters outside the Wall of Hope, which was relocated from Skyline School to Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue's Skyline station Sept. 7. We will have a crew at Monday's press conference, and will bring you his comments on Monday.

Thanks Nana and Klass for that.  Well, I didn't hear anything in the news tonight about Kaine talking to reporters outside the new Wall of Hope.  I wonder why it didn't happen?  Odd.

In Kaine's filing about her drinking and Kiara, he is saying that this drinking is a reason for her not to see Kiara NOW. Yet, it seems as if she was with Kiara 24 / 7 and in charge of her when they were under the same roof BEFORE. I know from past experience that everything in divorce papers is the truth, yep.

Kaine probably knew there was a problem before and was trying to deal with it, but after Kyron's disappearance he started learning more about her drinking habits from friends and acquaintances and realized the problem was much worse than he previously thought. Alcoholics are masters at hiding their problem, but it eventually comes out.

To me, he has been telling the truth all along. The difference is based on his knowledge between then and now.

I agree that things can be exaggerated in divorce cases, but since there is so much publicity about this one and so much is at stake with Kyron and Kiara, his lawyer may be meticulous with details.

Desiree just gave an interview on NBC Today show but I only caught the end of it. What I did get was that Desiree now knows that, based on Terri's words, Terri had a hatred of Kyron and felt he was the reason for the problems in her (Terri's) marriage to Kaine.

Not sure what "words" they were talking about, but for those of you further west where the show has not been broadcast yet, the interview ended at about 7:37 a.m., so must have started in the first half hour of the show.

Did anyone else see the segment and can help fill in the blanks?

Thanks

I should add to my above post that what Kaine said in press conferences about his missing child did not have to be the whole truth when speaking of Terri. The press conferences were about Kyron and not problems at home with Terri. It was not the time to speak ill of Terri because it would detract from Kyron. For all he knew at first, Terri's problems may not have had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance. He only needed to be completely honest and open with LE.

He now needs to protect Kiara, and he and his lawyer will use everything needed. If Terri's lawyers suspect or know Terri could be a possible danger to the safety of Kiara, they may fold on some things in order to protect Kiara. It would not be good for them if they are the ones responsible for putting Kiara in jeopardy. Terri's lawyers do need to protect Terri when it comes to the criminal investigation.

Sorry. I avoid the morning shows because of the nonsense one has to deal with in between the worthwhile segments. And, man, can they skew stuff!

Anyway, the video is not yet posted at their site, but it may be posted after the show ends on the West Coast.

Sounds interesting. Thanks for alerting us.

Grey, I hear ya! Anything past the 1st hour is just fluff, anyway.

Desiree was pretty outspoken but I couldn't remember exactly what else she said so didn't want to post anything inaccurate. God bless her.

Got it. Try this.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40192247

I'm listening now.

OK, it's up... here's the link:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40192247 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40192247)  They give a recap of the story then it goes into the interview.

Wow! Desiree has a lot to say. Dumps all over Kaine.

Her interview starts at 2:03. Total segment 6:44.

Kaas? Anyone? Can this be embedded in the thread? Thanks.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40192247

Uh, Klaas, apologies for misspelling your name, though I will defend my right to use typos anytime my fingers wish.
 ::piggy::

I would love to see those emails. I bet Terri's lawyers would too.

Wow! I had to walk away from that after listening to it. My heart was just breaking for her.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Some of the things that stood out in the interview:

She tried to get custody of Kyron about a year ago before he went missing. Terri telling Desiree, personally, that she wanted Desiree to take Kyron.

The emails that TH sent to friends stated, in great detail, her 'severe' hatred for Kyron because she believed he was the reason for the problems between her and Kaine.

She, Desiree, without a shadow of a doubt, believes Terri hated Kyron so much that she is not only capable of hurting Kyron, but she could have hurt him in the worst possible way.  ::MonkeyMad::

http://abcnews.go.com/US/kyron-horman-case-dive-team-scours-sauvie-island/story?id=12149528
Search for Kyron Horman: Dive Teams Scour Sauvie Island Waters
Authorities Hoping Changing Weather Conditions Near Sauvie Island Hope to Turn Up New Evidence

Post a Comment
By NEAL KARLINSKY, SARAH NETTER and DEAN SCHABNER
Nov. 15, 2010

Video at link

Carla Castano at KOIN has been tweeting that Kaine is going to meet with reporters this a.m. at the wall of hope, and to watch KOIN News Now to find out why, but when I go to the KOIN website, I can't find anything about it.

http://twitter.com/#!/CarlaKOIN (http://twitter.com/#!/CarlaKOIN)
CarlaKOIN Carla Castaño
Kyron Horman's dad meeting reporters at Wall of Hope today. Find out why on KOIN News Now at 6am.

Anyone know what it's about?

Good summary Sassi.  I wasn't sure where she got the hateful words of Terri's.  You mention email from Terri to friends.  I hope those friends are not in support of Terri now. 


Yes, I saw the interview as well.
Desiree was very outspoken.  About a year ago she attempted to have Kyron come and live with her.  Kaine told her that was not an option.  Somehow I can imagine him saying just that.
It was a heartbreaking picture of a Mom who now believes Kyron's wellbeing was at risk and as I read it, could have been avoided, if she had known before what she has recently learned.
Although she did not foresee Kyron being at risk before or she  would have got him out of there. 
Kyron said he wanted to live with her and I guess that's when she approached Kaine.
She said that Terri is a pathological liar.
I thought Desiree's pain and anger was palpable.
My God what more must she endure, while asking herself what her precious child endured.

Wonder what Kaine will have to say at the wall of hope today, or if he will cancel?

From the fact that Desiree had tried once before to get Kyron back and Kaine fought her, I knew she was in a situation where he would not let her win.

Those emails sound like they could really work against Terri. I wish they would be published just to give her supporters a glimpse of whom they are supporting.

LE is available to talk with Terri any time she wants to talk truthfully about what happened June 4. If she had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance, she is the cause of a lot of wasted time and effort.

I had heard this would happen today, but I never heard or saw a scheduled time. One source (forgot which) said no new details are expected.

After Desiree's tirade this morning, this should be interesting. It will be harder for him to keep his personal life out of news on the search for Kyron.

Hi Monks.  I watched Desiree this AM on the Today.  Her pain is gut wrenching.  I don't know how she can treat Kaine with any amount of civility.  I've had a bad feeling about him since the beginning.  I don't think he had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance directly - but he sure as heck didn't protect his little boy.   ::MonkeyMad::

Respectfully Grey, I absolutely think that is the wrong description to use for Desiree' interview, and frankly it just ticks me off. She's in a lot of pain.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Oops! Meant 'use' NOT us.  Sorry.

I wonder if any of the recipients of those emails stepped forward right away after Kyron went missing? We may never know, and probably isn't relevant at this point to actually finding him now.

I really wondered when Desiree was going to do that. I can't blame her at all for having anger with him after what all happened when she was pregnant. I'm sure Desiree is angry as can be and terrified  ::MonkeyAngel::

Transcript from The Today Show. 11/15/10
Closed captioning of: Mom: Stepmom had ‘severe hatred’ for KyronAdvertisement | ad info
>>> talk to kyron horman's mom, but here's the latest developments.

>> reporter: this weekend, divers searched the waters of sobi island, a two-day multiagency effort to find little kyron horman. in june when he was 7 years old, kyron disappeared from school after a science fair . on sunday they again walked away empty handed.

>> the dedication is to bring kyron home for closure for the family and for the investigation.

>> reporter: despite a search that appears to be more of a recovery effort, kyron's parents hold out hope their son is alive.

>> some days are better than others, we live it almost hour by hour.

>> it's sickening, it's painful.

>>> it's the worst torture.

kyron's biological parents -- kaine has since filed for divorce from horman.

>> i have everything to --

>> terry horman has never spoke on the the media but in court documents, kaine 's claims -- some of her former friends have spoken out.

>> i don't think terri is capable or harming a child, period. she's just not the type of woman that would do it that i can see.

>> reporter: but in divorce documents, kaine describe s terri as a terrible stepmother, it was common for her to be visibly impaired by alcohol and to pass out on the couch.

>> without a doubt, i wish i would have known it before, i wouldn't tolerate it.

>> a mother and father with her own suspicions as the search for n5 their son approaches six months. @8

>> kyron's mom desiree young is with us exclusively. good morning to you. this is the first time you're speaking out about kyron without your ex-husband kaine . up until now you have presented a united front so what has chan change?

we're still a united front in the goal that we want kyron home and we want answers, that hasn't changed. i personally have learned of information lately that has disappointed me in kaine 's choices and his behavior and i just can't stand by and support the choices that he's making.

>> some of that has to do with these court documents that you have seen where he talks about his wife terri being visibly impaired from alcohol several times a week, he calls her emotionally disturbed , yet he never shared any of his concerns with you, is that correct?

>> that's correct. we learned of all of this information after the fact and from the media. he had several opportunities to let tony and i know what was going on in the house and he did not. he had several opportunities to make the right choice and either let me know or remove kyron from the house, i would have removed kyron from the house if i would have known what was going on.

>> did you see signs ever desiree that terri was dealing with alcohol abuse or that she was emotionally disturbed ?

i did not see any evidence of alcohol abuse , in fact i didn't know about the dui until after kyron went missing. but as far as a personality disorder, i did for years, i was aware that she had some issues with pathological lying, things of that nature, but just mostly from my interactions with her. i didn't see, you know, as much as kaine did.

>> if you had any concerns, why didn't you at any time -- or did you try to get your son kyron out of that home?

>> oh, yes, i did. starting a year prior to him going missing , i tried to get custody of him.

>> and what would happen?

>> kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us. he was exhibiting some problems in school and he was expressing a lot of sadness and upset at the situation and kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come and live with me and on a couple of different occasions, terri had called me specifically so that i could talk to kyron because he was so upset and terri , personally wanted me to take kyron.

>> and then on friday, the police showed you some e-mails that terri had sent to friends of hers describing her marriage to kaine and her feelings about your son. i know you can't reveal the specifics because of the investigation, but generally, what did they say?

it's very clear from terri 's horrible words that she had a severe hatred for kyron and that a lot -- she blames a lot of the marital rproblems between kaine and herself on kyron. it was a huge point of contention in their marriage and she had expressed in great detail her hatred for kyron. i now believe, without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she capable of hurting kyron, that it's clear that she could have hurt him in the worst possible way.

>> do you still hold out hope that your son's alive?

>> i will until the day i die.

>> thank you so much for joining us and please know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

>> thank you.

I see Desiree as a woman who is so betrayed and hurt, and this has to come out of her, she can't bottle it up inside, that is not good. I don't blame her one bit saying what she has said.

Respectfully, sassifrass, please call the vocabulary police or post a list of words I am allowed to use in order to keep you happy. We are here to please you.

I know she is in a lot of pain, and I am glad she was able to vent with a lot of reasons about why she is upset about Terri. It has been obvious that she has held back before, but all of this new information is too much for her to remain silent.

I totally agree with you NRCG.  ::rhino::

Thanks, trimmonthelake. Love transcripts!
 ::monkeywine2::

I didn't watch the segment but it sounds like it was an angry speech (and who could blame her):

tirade [taɪˈreɪd]
n
1. a long angry speech or denunciation

BBM

Respectfully Grey, that comment was uncalled for and I refuse to comment to you about it further.

I do agree with you that I am also glad that she was had the strength to talk about all of the new info that has been coming to light. My heart breaks for her.

Thanks Trim.  Gosh you're speedy!

In looking at the transcript I see that the police showed Terri the emails on Friday.  I wonder why LE has chosen to do this now? 

I listened to the 6:30am news and they stated that they will have Kaines comments on the 12:00 news.

Thanks Sass

Thanks Trimm.    No option for Desiree to have Kyron  ::MonkeyNoNo::  this makes me so mad, I don't even want to know how angry Desiree must be. It sounds to me like Kyron was unhappy, couldn't they have at least tried to see how things might go if he lived with Desiree? Since I never had to deal with custody issues, it just blows me away the game playing and meanness that some couples play with the children  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Respectfully, why don't we direct our anger to those that are responsible for
hurting Kyron?  jmo.

 ::rhino::

Would anyone care to comment on why they think LE has shown Desiree those emails on Friday?  At least that's how I read it.  ICBW - tia

Thank you, Klass, for the definition. She was definitely angry, and the segment lasted about four minutes which is long on a news broadcast.

It seems unfortunate and heartbreakingly (though likely unintentionally) cruel, that Desiree has had to hear of all this via the media.  Gutwrenching indeed.  How she must torture herself day and night! 

Knowing that these divorce documents are destined to be released to the public, Kaine (IMO) definitely should have discussed these allegations and their implications with her and Tony.  I don't think anyone with a heart would blame her for her anger and imprecations when such a thing happens.  Not only that, to whatever degree he was aware of the problems with Terri vis a vis Kyron, she has a right to be furious that he did not share these things with her, Kyron's mother.  Desiree is certainly entitled to a 'tirade' at the very least; I have no problem with the use of that term to describe her words this morning.

 :smt009 Poor Desiree.

IMO, many engineer-types exhibit an almost delusional tendency to seek to administratively, with logic and order, manage and constrain the trends and events in their lives and in the lives of their close families.  I see that in Kaine.  From the beginning he had that deer-in-headlights look that comes from not only the shock of suddenly losing his son, but the implications that things he thought he could handle, including problems in his home as well as repercussions from choices he had previously made, had suddenly spiraled out of all control, and his precious little 'mini-me' was lost as a result.  From the beginning, he has seemed to struggle to cope from his 'Mr. Project Manager place' -- which works well in some aspects of a nightmare like this, but for others, is a disaster, as we are seeing right now.

I agree with Grey that it is only since Kyron has disappeared that Kaine has (a) had to honestly and starkly face the known issues with Terri in that home, in the light of all that has happened since June 4, (b) learned much more about her behavior from LE and from people with information who have come forward; has been able to put two and two together; and has developed a picture of the real Terri, and (c) been forced -- by both the intense scrutiny from the public and media, and the crucial need to protect Kiara, to take a strong stand against Terri's dangerous behavior.  Kaine has no choice but to comprehend the piercing reality that if he had looked realistically at the picture before, when he could have done something about it, dear little Kyron might still be with him, alive and well.  This will haunt him forever, I'm thinking.

 :smt009 Poor Kaine.

I'm also wondering now whether or not Kaine is aware of these emails in which it is evident that Terri "severely hated" Kyron and seemed capable of "harming him in the worst way."  LE is quite aware of them, and certainly of many other horrible things that have not yet been made public.  It is almost beyond belief.  What kind of twisted monster could hate -- or harm -- such a lovely boy???

 :smt009 Poor Kyron!

Where are you little guy?  :batman:

Can, I think they are just keeping her in the loop. It's possible that they had just received them from TH's friends although that would be a bit disconcerting if they held on to them that long before turning them over to LE.

1. I can venture a guess that Desiree is not often in Portland and that this was the first opportunity LE had to show them to her after they obtained and verified them.

2. I doubt she is given every detail of their investigation, just general, non-specific updates, but after Kaine's filings about Terri's drinking, this may have been a suitable time to give Desiree the emails.

She certainly has a right to be angry, I think most of us in this position would be. She was tame compared to what I would have said  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Oh Kat G, what foresight you had!  After seeing this am's Today show and hearing that TH hated Kyron and asked DY to take him back I am 100% TH did away with this child.  I had kinda defended her and just didn't want the main caregiver for little Ky to want him gone.  I see (IMO!!!) that KH's controlling ways might have led to what happened to Kyron now.  If my spouse hated my child that much do you think that I would ask that person to be his caregiver?  WTF????!!!  Was it all about winning to you Kaine?  Didn't want to pay child support?  Yes, children sometimes play parent against parent but I think Ky was very sensitive and sensed he was causing trouble but didn't want to actually say TH, my stepmom doesn't like me.  Therapy, extended stays at Mom's, talks with only bioparents just to feel out the situation.  Do you think TH wanted KH to take more responsibility in Kyron's daily life?  DY did ask to take her child home and KH said not possible!  What was not possible?  Good going Kaine!  I bet right now Houze is headed for a PPD defense.  It's all making sense now.  Someone could have saved this child!  I don't believe one word KH says or has said now.  Good for you DY, stand up for yourself and Ky!  He can't control what you say now!  Oh how my heart hurts for DY.  How I feel for those who have lost a child before their time for any reason.  I mentally don't think I could bury my baby and live through it.  My heart goes out to each and every one of you.  God Bless you all!  God Bless Kyron and his Mommy.  I only hope that this does not devastate DY so that she can't carry on.  I only have one child and she must carry on for hers.  I think that the fire that is lit in DY right now will not burn out.  I see her carrying on as a child advocate/victim's rights activist.  I think we have all identified with her from the beginning and maybe she will carry on and become a great crusader for all children.  She and M. Klaas should join forces.  I admire him along with Walsh and a couple others.  Their strength is so uplifting.  I'll quit now, I just couldn't stop crying while watching Today and seeing that as one of the top stories.  Kyron, Zahra, Caylee, Shaniya and so many others...Dear God in Heaven what can we do to put an end to this?  You monkeys have a good day and I am so sorry to unload and depress you even more.  Sorry.

I hadn't thought of that Sassi.  Thank you.  I assumed LE had them all along.
Indeed concerting if friends held on to that kind of email from a person who cannot account for 90 minutes of her time that fateful morning.

I would have been seriously bleeped with only one or two words left to broadcast.
 ::monkeywine2::

Thanks Grey. 

I sure would like to know how long LE has been privy to those emails and can't help wonder (if they had them all along) if this firmed up their suspicions and led to their sharing with Kaine and Desiree from the outset.
Without mentioning the emails.

Des--In your part about KH do you think that when DY asked to take Kyron back that she didn't say what her reasons were?  If she recieved emails from TH that asked her to take Ky and he was having trouble in school and begging to not go back to his permanent home don't you think that DY addressed it with Kaine?  I just feel like she isn't the type of person to out of the blue say can I have Kyron back without saying why.  I don't know but I feel such hostility toward KH right now I can't see straight.  He's dancing around the answers from the beginning!  From "was there any sign of trouble you could see in TH", to "she would pass out on the couch from drinking"!  How do you go from ordinary squabbles/troubles that all married couples have to she kept Kitty up at night while she passed out on the couch from drinking?  None of us would want to air our dirty laundry nor do we want to believe that our spouse would harm our child but you should never lie to LE about what is going on in your home when a child is missing.  Every iota of info is important.  Why did he hold back such important info?  Why not do what was best for Kyron and give living at Mom's a trial run till he could straighen out him home life?  I say his controlling ways has played a part in what has happened.  I am so sorry for saying that also.  It is his child that is missing but it is also DY's child and she did try to intervene.  There was evident trouble in that home and with Kyron and KH stood in the way of finding a solution other that what happened.  Would you have the person who blamed the trouble in your marriage taking almost complete care of your child.  I don't think you would and I definately would not!  I gotta go to work.  I'm sorry for being harsh and please I hope I didn't offend you this am.  What DY said this am has me burning to kick KH's butt!

Wonderful post Desdemona.

God bless you Kyron.   ::MonkeyAngel::

Maybe after reading the sexts and hearing about Terri's drinking problem via the media, Desiree stormed into the LE office and demanded to know what else they had on Terri. The task force had no choice but to fold and give her something.

We may never know the reason for the why and when of giving Desiree the emails, but I think they do give Desiree more reasons for focusing on Terri. She has suspected Terri but could not prove it. The emails back up her suspicions even more.

Yup.
 ::rhino::

BBM

 ::MonkeyEek:: Whoa.  I realize you said "IMO," but where are we getting this assumption that Kaine KNEW that Terri "hated Kyron that much"??  I mean, Kaine obviously wasn't even aware that his dear wife hated HIM "that much" either -- secretly hated him so much that she would try to manipulate someone into murdering him for her ... y'know?

Respectfully, I believe the secret extent of Terri's pathology is only now coming to light, and I believe that Kaine will forever, for the rest of his life, punish himself quite sufficiently for real and perceived failings on his part that may have contributed to what happened to his little Kyron.  May others learn from Kaine's situation; perhaps some other little girl or boy may one day be spared a horrific end, because of the lessons learned in public cases like Kyron's. 

However, I believe the invective, public stigma, and blame for the harm that came to Kyron should be brought solely and squarely to the doorstep of the redheaded pathological nutter-butter-eater who harmed this precious little boy.  JMO.

Excellent insight to your response Des, and I agree with you. There is no way that Kaine is responsible for what the squirrel may have done to Kyron, or have any idea that Kaine had prior knowledge to her hatred towards Kyron.

I just don't feel, IMO, that there should be angry words towards either Kaine or Desiree. They are both hurting very much and without a doubt, both of them clearly adored this sweet boy.

He may not have had prior knowledge of TH hatred towards his son, however, he was irresponsible by allowing someone with drinking problems to be the caretaker of his children. I'm sure this will haunt him for the rest of his life.

If Terri had hatred towards Kyron, did nobody notice this at all? Maybe the teachers or someone? When I don't like someone it is very hard for me to hide my feelings and pretend that I like the person. Even James said she was good with Kyron, so she must be really good at hiding her feelings.

Wondering if this is why they searched houses of Terri's friends and possibly this is when the emails were obtained? Just seems odd if such an important piece of info was withheld from LE by Terri's friends until now.

Also, we don't know whether Kaine knew about the emails until today. However, seems logical that once LE decided to mention them to KH and DY, they might approach KH first just to find out if he had any idea about Terri's feelings about Kyron, since it was happening in his home? 

Apparently the friends who received the emails knew. Why didn't they say something to Kaine about this?  ::MonkeyNoNo::

That is what I'm not understanding?  And even people that she didn't send emails to, wonder if they saw a hatred directed towards Kyron?

Could this be why her and James were butting heads? Perhaps he was sticking up for Kyron?  ::MonkeyEek::

http://www.kgw.com/news/Exclusive--Kyron-Hormans-Mom-Talks-About-Disturbing-Emails--108170584.html

Desiree: Emails show Terri hated Kyron & could hurt him


by Anne Yeager, KGW

kgw.com
Posted on November 15, 2010 at 8:10 AM
Updated today at 8:15 AM

MEDFORD, Ore. -- In an exclusive interview on NBC's Today Show, Kyron Horman's mother said she thinks the missing 7-year old's step-mom could have hurt her son "in the worst way."

Desiree Young appeared on Today Monday morning. She talked about explosive emails that police showed her just last Friday. The emails were sent to friends by Terri Moulton Horman, Kyron's step-mother, according to Young.

"I now believe without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she (Terri) capable of hurting Kyron, but that it's clear she could have hurt him in the worst possible way, " said Young, as she struggled to talk through the tears.

But what were in those emails?

Young said she couldn't go into specifics because of the ongoing investigation. But she didn't hold back about the ugly picture she said the emails painted.

"It's very clear from Terri’s horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kyron and that she blamed a lot of the marital problems on Kyron," said Young.

Kyron Horman went missing from Skyline Elementary School on June 4th.  While Terri Horman has not been named as a suspect, she has clearly remained the focus of the investigation.

Desiree Young and Kyron's father Kaine Horman have long provided a united front in the search for their son.

But on Monday, Desiree indicated she was seriously disappointed with Kaine for failing to share with her information of Terri's alleged issues with alcohol.

"I just can't stand by and support the choices that he's making. He had several opportunities to let Tony (Desiree's husband) and I know what was going on and he did not, " she said.

Young also said that she tried to get custody of her son a year before Kyron disappeared, but Kaine would not allow it. Young said Terri even called her on the phone to urge her to take over custody of Kyron because he was so upset.

"He (Kyron) was exhibiting some problems in school, expressing a lot of sadness, and upset at the situation. Kyron on many occasions said he wanted to live with me, " she recalled.

NBC's Merideth Vierra ended the interview by asking Desiree if she still has hope that Kyron is still alive.

"I will until the day I die, " said Young.

Kaine has scheduled a press conference for 10:30 Monday, from the Wall of Hope created as a show of support from the community for Kyron and his family. KGW will cover that event.

Oops.  Just saw this, after making that last post.  No offense taken whatsoever; we all have a right to our personal opinions!  In response, please refer to my position stated above, that it seems quite unlikely to me that Kaine fully understood the extent of Terri's hatred, her pathological thoughts and behavior, and her capacity to hurt or kill another human being; much less an innocent child.  My impression is that he was probably trying to manage a troubling situation, doing damage control and hoping for the best; not realizing until it was too late how horrifically, tragically out of hand the damage might eventually become.

We were not in that home.  We simply do not know, and I always feel uncomfortable trying to speculate what was in the minds and hearts of people unless we have the whole story. 

Also, we do not know what Kaine and Desiree have shared with LE regarding "what went on in the home."  I would never presume to know what Kaine has or has not shared with LE, but I would assume that it is far more than we the public know about... ICBW, but from the information we have, I absolutely cannot agree with your assessment that Kaine has LIED to investigators!  (Per your comment above in blue.)  In no way do I have enough information to form an opinion about such an accusation against him, though I certainly respect your right to form your own.

Ah, and in answer to your question (BBM), it is my understanding from watching Desiree's segment this morning, that her request for custody of Kyron about a year ago was based on three things she mentioned in this interview:

1) Desiree felt that Terri had a personality disorder that featured (for one thing) pathological lying, which made her uneasy about Terri's character.

2) Kyron had sometimes cried when he had to go back home at the end of his visits in Medford, and had asked his mom if he could come and live with her and Tony.  He seemed rather unhappy and was having trouble in school.

3) Terri had indicated to Desiree that she would be okay with Kyron going to live with her.

...and probably another factor, which was not stated:

4) Desiree was remarried, stable, employed, and her health had improved.  Her situation had changed dramatically since the time when Kyron was a baby and Kaine had been given custody.

We don't know Kaine's reasons for believing at the time of Desiree's request for custody a year ago, that it would be best for Kyron to stay with him.  He had reasons for making that choice, whatever they were.  I prefer not to presume a selfish financial reason, or a petty or vengeful motive, when I have seen no such evidence.

And we have to remember that Terri was a husband-stealer in this story.  IMO there would naturally be no love lost between her and Desiree, and it is likely that throughout the years of Kaine's association with and marriage to Terri (which were the years of Kyron's short life), Desiree probably only barely tolerated this woman -- but seems to have done so for her child's sake.  Kaine would have to work to prevent the 'catfight factor' between these two women.  He may not have made all the right choices.  For instance, I noted that Desiree stated this morning that she did not even know about Terri's DUI conviction until after Kyron disappeared.  But a lot of this may have stemmed from Desiree's role as 'injured party' and Terri's as 'preferred replacement.'  When walking on eggshells, the best path is not always evident.  That is just my take on it.

 :smt056  Love to all Monkeys.  We are all united in our concern for this dear little boy.

I would think that since very early on LE has had these emails..when they took the computers from the home.

I think it is interesting that they just shared these emails with Desiree on Friday..and then spent the weekend searching SI again.  Besides the cell pings, there must be other info that leads them to believe TMH disposed of him in water and on SI.  Didn't LE say there was a lot of water to search on SI ?

I really feel for Desiree and Kaine in this..hindsight is always so easy. 

I still want to know the real reason that Terri removed James from the home, why she would hurt Kyron rather then just leave herself.  Why in the heck she was apparently leading a double life.  Some friends cannot imagine her hurting a child and others receive emails showing real hatred towards Kyron.

I will have to disagree on Terri being the husband stealer, she was, but Kaine allowed it all too happen as well, happens all the time, but two people are responsible for that.  I have no idea either what went on inside that house, but it doesn't sound like it was very pleasant the last months before Kyron disappeared.

(From the above article/video)

"I now believe without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she (Terri) capable of hurting Kyron, but that it's clear she could have hurt him in the worst possible way, " said Young, as she struggled to talk through the tears.

But what were in those emails?

Young said she couldn't go into specifics because of the ongoing investigation. But she didn't hold back about the ugly picture she said the emails painted.

"It's very clear from Terri’s horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kyron and that she blamed a lot of the marital problems on Kyron," said Young.
--
This is pretty extreme, isn't it?  I fear greatly for our little frogman.   ::FlyingFrog::

This is a question that Klaas may know. Since emails are stored on the emails server, if a person deletes their emails, can they be recovered on their personal computer? Somehow I don't thinks so. IMO

'The emails back up her suspicions even more" -

Oh boy, do they ever!

With the water search going on, I also wonder if they are, in their own way, trying to brace Desiree for the very worst outcome. 

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kyrons_mother_desiree_young_ap.html



Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, appears solo on Today Show saying Terri Horman had 'severe hatred for Kyron'


Published: Monday, November 15, 2010, 6:50 AM     Updated: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:42 AM


 ::MonkeyEek:: 

Of course you are right -- it always takes two to tango!  I used that epithet (husband stealer) only to emphasize what I think might have been the operative dynamic between the two women over the years.  But yes, the husband always plays his part in being 'stolen' as well, for sure.

But then again... now that we're on the subject, I'll add that there is this sense I have, that although Desiree has been outspoken about seeing Terri as the woman who stole her husband, and with whom Kaine cheated on her and betrayed her... well, Kaine seems to see the end of their marriage in a different light... I have not heard enough of his take on it to decide what I believe about all that.  It would be useful to know more, in trying to get a picture of what factors ultimately led to Kyron's disappearance.  JMO.

I've been wondering that too and am trying to remember if we know which friends homes were searched other than DeDe's.

I agree w/para.2. that Kaine would have been informed.  But not sure if it was recently, as with Desiree, or if he's had this info. for some time?

I just get upset and you have to excuse me when the woman just gets the blame, it makes me mad when marriages are broken up like this, even though it seems to be a very common occurrence  ::MonkeyNoNo::  I agree, and I think that Desiree is holding back what all really happened with the marriage, she probably doesn't see it as important in the scheme of what has all happened to Kyron, but she is a woman and women don't get over these things easily, or at least I don't. I just wish that Kyron could have gone and lived with Desiree, for awhile to see how he liked it, but since everything has to be through the courts, I'm guessing, it probably wasn't feasible.

I know how to write an email and delete, I delete all of them everyday except if some are very important. I never gave it any thought that once they are deleted are they gone forever? There probably must be some way of getting them, maybe? What I would like to know if these friends showed the police the emails right away? Or were they deleted and they were recovered?

You may be right. LE may be doing what they can to help Desiree emotionally. Desiree has barely held herself together in press conferences, and I would imagine that she is more fragile in private. Until they find a body, they cannot prove to Desiree that he is gone, and she will never believe it without a body unless Terri confesses. Even then Desiree might hope Terri is lying.

Does anyone think that perhaps in one of the emails there was mention of the water and the island? I don't mean she said anything like she would do harm to Kyron and dispose of him in the water. Maybe some comments that the police have looked at there were suspicious.

Nope. Not gone forever. I've heard that even reformatting the hard drive won't get rid of files. Sometimes the files are not whole, but enough is there to help in investigations. The sooner the files are recovered, the better the condition they will be in. With today's recovery programs, it could be that everything can be recovered in tact.

The delete button is a toy that hides files that are in your way. If you really want files deleted, drill holes through the hard drive. Maybe an acid bath too.

If you want to recover files on your computer, there are programs available at your local computer store or online. It has been years since I have used one, but it was easy to use.

LE can also subpoena your internet provider for their files.

If you put anything in writing, make sure it is something you don't mind the world reading. Case in point ... Terri ...

So true, remember the Menendez Brothers, thought they had gotten away with shooting their parents.....Had Super tech friend "erase" the hard drive etc., didn't take L.A.P.D. anytime at all to retrieve all their correspondence, nothing on a puter is permanently gone unless you destroy the Hard drive.

Thanks for the computer info, you have to wonder with people that commit crimes, why don't they destroy their hard drive?

 Grey is correct NRCC.. I was reading and thinking of how to put it into words. lol   I know this from when I worked at 911 and have spoken to detectives. It also costs a hell of alot of $$$ to check someones hardrive,, I know someone who had to get his EX wife checked out and it costs him thousands..Detectives checked emails.. bank accounts.. you name it.. she had it deleted of course but info still on the HD.  She raked him over the coals.. <the man I know> .  I havnt posted and been reading off and on. Keeping Kyron in my prayers. I feel bad for Desiree and Kaine.. BUT.. <and I am sorry> for some reason I have not been found of Kaine from the beginning.. and after seeing the last few videos.. I still dont like the man. My heart breaks for him..but.. he just seems like a very controlling person IMO.. and hiding things from the mother of his child.. well.. thats just bullshit.  ::MonkeyMad::
Its a shame she has to find things out from others. Been praying Kyron is alive.. but I just dont think he is anymore. :(   So sad .
 Poor little Zahra Baker too.. that really broke my heart. Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. 

Ah, but they believe that they are all-powerful as is their belief the delete key. Terri probably did not even delete her files, or if she did, it was at the last minute.

I wouldn't have known what to do, but there is nothing on mine that I would fear.  Angiex911dsptchr  thank-you for the information, sounds to me like it is a good idea not to ever use your computer for a list of things, or you will get caught eventually.

For those wondering if LE found the emails on Terri's computer or if her friends came forward with the emails, it is probably both. But, those who received the emails and did not come forward have some explaining to do, and LE is open for business.
 ::monkeywine2::

Must go and run the sweeper. Have my 19th old Grandaughter here.. walked out of the room for 5 minutes to throw wood in the woodburner.. post a post.. and she took her shirt off and smashed all of her gold fish crackers on the floor. LOL
Prayers for Kyron. Check back later>

I agree...

Hi Angie

 ::HelloKitty::

Janet

Thanks for backing me up, Angiex911dsptchr.

I need to clear up what I said about a recovery program being easy to use. It is easy if you need to recover one or two files and you know the directory/folder it was in.

To go through a whole computer for live and deleted files is a time-consuming task. LE has to look through all files in order to locate those related to the investigation. Files can be hidden in program directories. File extensions can be renamed, i.e., change the name a text file, *.txt, to a graphics file, *.jpg., then change the file extension back to the correct one to open it.

 Did I just hear their is a new search going on today?

Hi, Monks. 
 ::MonkeyDance::
Sorry if this is redundant, but does anyone know what time Kaine is speaking today at the Wall of Hope?
Thanks.

Also....  Blonde, you heard about a search, today, Monday?  On the news, or??? Can you link us up, please?
 ::MonkeyAngel::

TIA,

K. Cat
 ::MonkeyKiss::

Another heartbreaking case of custody disputes which end up with the children paying the price. If parents can just put the interest of the children above the interest of anything else, perhaps these cases wouldn't end in such horrible ways.
Desiree should have been informed of the trouble in the house, it was inappropriate that she was not told. Kyron should have been allowed to live with his mother if he wanted to live with her, especially given the problems in the household that kaine has spoken of. That is not being a monday morning quarterback, that is common sense.

Yeah. I've heard the divers are out again today, but I don't have a good source for the info.

Search for Kyron Horman: Dive Teams Scour Sauvie Island Waters
Authorities Hoping Changing Weather Conditions Near Sauvie Island Hope to Turn Up New Evidence

By NEAL KARLINSKY, SARAH NETTER and DEAN SCHABNER
Nov. 15, 2010


Authorities have returned to the waters near an Oregon island hoping to find new evidence that would lead them to the missing 8-year-old boy Kyron Horman.


About 50 paid workers, divers and volunteers scoured Sauvie Island, not far from the little boy's home, in search of new evidence that may have turned up as a result of changing weather patterns.

"When you have water levels that are changing, there's some idea if Kyron or some other evidence has been lurking on the bottom of that muddy flat all summer, it might actually get dislodged," said retired Multnomah County Sheriff's Captain Bruce McCain.

So far, authorities say, they have found nothing of note.

Kyron, who would be 8 years old by now, has been missing for nearly six months. His father, birth mother and the police have all pointed fingers at the boy's stepmother, Terri Horman, but she has not been charged or even named a person of interest.


Authorities said this weekend that the new Sauvie Island search, which has been thoroughly combed in the past several months, was based on an ongoing investigation, not any new leads.

The boy's father, Kaine Horman, has taken his estranged wife's silence in the case as an admission of guilt, according to court documents.

In court filings from last week in the couple's ongoing divorce, an attorney for Kaine Horman wrote that "one can only infer that Mother will not speak because her testimony will lead to criminal liability for Kyron's disappearance. Until Mother denies the allegation, there can be no other inferences drawn."


Kaine Horman has been outspoken about what he believes to be Terri Horman's involvement in the case. Three months ago, he and Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, appeared on "Good Morning America" to accuse Terri Horman of taking their son.

"You will go to jail, and whoever has been helping you, if they don't talk, they will go to jail," Young said in August.

"I really believe that you want to do the right thing here and bring Kyron home," she said.

Terri Horman was the last known person to see Kyron on June 4 when he left her to go to class at his elementary school following an early-morning science fair.

Terri Horman has remained steadfastly silent through most of the investigation, only releasing brief statements through her attorney that she did not have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance.

Suspicion Continues to Mount Against Terri Horman, Possible Accomplice

Kaine Horman filed for divorce shortly after his son disappeared after being told that she had allegedly tried to hire someone to kill him.

He was also granted a restraining order keeping his wife away from him and their young daughter.

Police said there have been several discrepancies in Terri Horman's story. Over the summer they released a picture of her white truck in hopes of finding witnesses who saw her in the company of someone else the morning of Kyron's disappearance.
Related


There is suspicion that Terri Horman's close friend DeDe Spicher was that person. Though there have been reports that Spicher was unaccounted for on the morning of June 4, she has repeatedly denied that she knows anything about Kyron's disappearance.


Spicher was subpoenaed by a grand jury this summer. Like Terri Horman, she has not been charged or named a person of interest.

Kyron was last seen walking toward his Skyline Elementary School classroom after he had proudly displayed his science fair project on tree frogs.

He was last seen wearing a "CSI" T-shirt and black cargo pants.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/kyron-horman-case-dive-team-scours-sauvie-island/story?id=12149528&page=2

I totally agree, and like I said in a previous post, it just amazes me the games some couples play and the children are in the middle, it is all very sad  ::MonkeyNoNo::

When I was watching a video on a previous post, the reporter on that newscast stated 10:30.

Koko!  ::MonkeyKiss::

I haven't seen a time when KH will speak at the Wall of Hope but I watched the 6:30am news this morning and they said they will have a response from Kaine at noon today on  KGW.

Even though that has today's date, it sounds like the news releases from Saturday and Sunday.

I looked for one that states the search is on Monday, Nov. 15.

There probably won't be anything online until after the Noon news Pacific Time.

Thanks wildmala! Do you know what station that was by any chance?

At the end of this clip from KATU, they state tomorrow (Monday) at 10:30.

Edit to add link.  MB : .http://www.katu.com/news/local/107834189.html?tab=video

Sorry....http://www.katu.com/news/local/107834189.html?tab=video

 ::MonkeyKiss::  Sassi!   ::MonkeyKiss:: 

Thanks.  Hope you are well.  Great to "see" you again!

Grey, thanks for the info.

Koko's Cat
 ::MonkeyGavel::

It is sad and look at what happens....

It is alarming to learn Terri had asked Desiree to take Kyron...I can understand why it is considered that Terri gave Kyron to somebody. It is equally alarming to learn of the mails where she talks about her hatred for Kyron...I wonder what was the reason she felt Kyron was the reason for the trouble between Kaine and herself? I wonder if Terri told Kaine of her wanting Kyron to live with Desiree...
To me, just by the little we know, it sounds like Terri knew something bad was going to happen and wanted to stop it. So the question is, did she rid herself of Kyron by sending him away or did she hurt Kyron in the ultimate way? From what we know, either one is a possibility. 

I feel so sorry for both Desiree and Kaine. I hope Desiree is able at some point to put aside the pain and anger she can't help but feel at Kaine's choices and her inability to save Kyron. And I also feel sorry for Kaine because yeah, he knows he didn't understand what all the signals would eventually come to mean, and must feel responsible too. And to feel on top of what's happening to his son, that his ex-wife is going thru this pain and blames him as well, must be awful. Sometimes I think it may be easier for people outside of the immediate relationship to see what's going on more clearly. For instance, Desiree recognized Terri as a pathological liar, but Kaine may have bought into her act at the time.

Logically however, setting aside all hurt and anger, IMO the only person responsible is Terri and whomever she had help her (if there was an accomplice).

As sad as it is to contemplate, my bet is firmly on Door #2.   :sad:

:salut: I agree with every point in your admirably thoughtful post, Scatty.

Obviously if Terri hurt Kyron then she is legally responsible for this, no doubt about that at all. No matter what the problem was, if she harmed Kyron, she had no right to do that. If she gave Kyron to somebody, he was not hers to give away.
 
As for Kaine, I am keeping my opinion to myself, (at the moment anyway), until we learn more about it all. 

Desiree said that Kaine said it wasn't an option, don't know the exact words but it is posted a page or two back. And I'm guessing it would all have to have been done in the courts.

According to the interview, she tried, how I am not sure. She did say she spoke with Kaine and he said it was not an option that Kyron go live with her. If she took it further, I don't know. I recall an interview when she spoke about Kyron wanting to live with her, she spoke to Kaine and they figured it was just his missing his mother and nothing which would have indicated any signs of a problem. Of course, at that time, Desiree didn't know of the drinking Kaine is now talking about nor did she know of the supposed hatred Terri felt for Kyron. She was a bit in the dark.

After reading about emails that showed her dislike of Kyron, it makes me believe even more that the person who posted on that iVillage (I think that was the site) site about her stepson and how she despised him, was indeed Terri Horman. I wish I still had that link.

Why are divers back at the island?  Was new information given???



http://www.katu.com/news/local/107834189.html

Kyron search: Dive teams back on Sauvie Island 58
Share By KATU News and KATU.com Staff

Story Published: Nov 13, 2010 at 7:35 PM PST
Story Updated: Nov 14, 2010 at 7:02 PM PST



PORTLAND, Ore. – Dive teams from eight different agencies are back out on Sauvie Island over the weekend, searching for clues to the disappearance of Portland elementary student Kyron Horman.

A spokesperson for the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office says about 50 people are part of the search, including paid workers and volunteers.

Multnomah County Sheriff Public Information Officer Mary Lindstrand tells us the search is only in the water. Inch by inch, foot by foot, in 50-degree water only a few feet deep, dive teams combed Sauvie Island's canals, ponds and lakes – looking for any trace of Kyron Horman.

SNIP...

I'll watch the 12:00 news on KGW and see what Kaine had to say and post what they have since the Wall of Hope statement was not a live presser.

Yes Grey.  It is a common lament of Mother's of missing children.  The hope that their child will be found alive.  So sad.

ditto

Me either ::MonkeyMad:: Kaine stated in the petition all above her pyschological issues and pretty much called her a lush, but yet he is so selfish he refuses to do what is in the best interest of the child.......Desiree is a he77 of a better person than I would be, I would have never been able to stand beside him after TWO times he fought her for custody and like I stated the other night I doubt we'd know his name if Kaine had given Kyron to Desiree instead of being a selfish and controlling person (that is just what I have thought all along about him).......and is he in pain, yes, but no more than Desiree and sure as hell no more than Kyron endured...... ::pullinghairout:: ::pullinghairout::

bumped for Blonde and others.

Not sure, but in one story I read here earlier today, there was a mention of the water conditions (tides?) changing recently, which might have stirred things up on the bottom.  HTH.

Okay.  I know this is going to sound irrational and emotional.  But I am pretty sure that Kyron LOVED his Daddy very much, and LOVED his mama, too.  It seems to me that it would be pretty upsetting to Kyron if he knew that people were harshly attacking either one of them.  Everyone has their right to their opinions, but it makes me sad to see people casting stones when we don't have the whole picture.  Not criticizing anyone here, and by all means, feel free to continue to bash away at the perceived culprit of your choice -- it is certainly your right.  Just wanted to express my sadness about this stuff, for Kyron's sake.  For now, I'm blaming only the person who decided to harm Kyron and carried out evil against him -- and who is now keeping silent, cruelly preventing Kyron from being brought home:  the person who is the direct cause of this tragic heartbreak and all the hard feelings.  JMO

Later, Monkeys.  :smt022 
Praying for the search, praying for answers, praying for justice for Kyron.

Later, Desdemona.   ::MonkeyAngel::

Thank You Can..

NRCG~ITA, it takes two to Tango, and no matter how Kaine "viewed" the sleeping around with Terri, legally it is still an affair, and regarding the courts and everything going thru them, it is always feasible for two parties to come to an agreement and just enter in the court thru their attorneys ::MonkeyNoNo:: So, NOW Terri has had to endure Kaine cheating on her with Terri while she was 8 mos preggers and devastated that her baby didn't even have a chance to be in a traditional family since these two got together, THEN IIRC she tried to obtain custody when she returned from having her treatments and AGAIN a yr before he disappeared. No DOUBT Terri or the POS who took Kyron is responsible, but I call it like I see it and aas with Ron Cummings and Adam Baker, Kaine IMO failed Kyron (not that he could have imagined she would disappear him, but from his response to court filings- an accident on the highway while she drove Kyron could have just as easily killed everyone in the car according to what Kaine stated (but I DO agree with Kat-Gram, ppl lie in divorce filings all the time), but if he told the truth I still can't understand WTF he allowed her to be alone with Ky and Kitty with no supervision EVER :2brickwall: :2brickwall: :2brickwall:

yw! Blonde

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBRoGduSv9A&NR=1

~  For Ky ~

 :batman:"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."

 ::rhino::

Thank you. It's tiresome with people ripping apart the marriage and personalities of people they do not know.

Terri ... yeah, go ahead and beat up on her. Too many suspicious circumstances, etc., against her. She could speak up and defend herself.

Terri's friends ... well, they are her friends and they do dumb things for her.

Kaine ... the man was doing the best with what he had. Yes, some poor judgement calls, but nothing worth the life of his son. He is a victim too.

Desiree ... keep away and hope she makes it through all of this. She is a victim too.

Tony ... good man. Glad he is there for Desiree. No need to drag him through mud. He is a victim too.

Kyron ... he is a little kid and the main victim. Try to keep him out of the mud, please, e.g., long discussions on whether he still wets the bed. Sheesh.

Kaine Horman: Terri Horman 'master of deception'

Kaine Horman had harsh words Monday morning for Terri Moulton Horman, hours after Kyron Horman's mother Desiree Young lashed out at Terri.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html

I have never once since I have been on this forum for years seen anyone drag a victim through the mud, ever. And certainly not an innocent child. But since this is a forum people are going to have different thoughts and opinions, and not every opinion is going to be liked by everyone.

Well said NRCG.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Haven't posted here in a while, but wanted to say my hunch about Terri was spot on.  I felt all along the only reason Kyron is gone is due to her intense hatred.  She's a chameleon of sorts, becoming different things to different people.  Remember her rather punitive punishment of Kyron if he did not get a green card each day at school?  Now why she would have the cajones to admit her hatred of Kyron to a friend is beyond me.  I don't think she's playing with a full deck.  While I will say that Kaine has some serious judgement flaws, I feel that Terri had him thoroughly snookered.

I will say that for all his faults, Kaine is being punished a thousand times over.  The person who truly deserves punishment is Terri, and I feel the walls are starting to close in on her.

Hi Monkeys...I don't know...after hearing DY on dateline and reading KH's reaction at the wall of hope...I feel as if Terri isn't the only "Master of Deception".  DY's interview did not put KH in a good light imho.  The only people that I am feeling heartache for in this whole mess is Kyron, Kiara, and Desiree. 

I personally think that Desiree felt hopeless in trying to get Kyron back based on previous tactics employed by Kaine during the custody battle and the fact that he shot the possiblity down when she voiced her concern.  And I like how Kaine sugar coats Kyron's desire to be with his mom and completely down plays Desiree's feelings on this matter.  But this is Kaine's pattern...to downplay the obvious.  He did that in regards to his affair with TH when DY was pregnant, when the focus initially shifted to TH as a possible suspect, and now DY's expression of Kyron's desire to be with her.  I am over that.

I have a feeling that both KH's and TH's lifestyle contributed to this little boy being missing either indirectly or directly.  I do wonder why DY was shown the emails regarding TH on Friday.  I do wonder at TH speaking with DY in regards to custody of Kyron...because here the stepmom was agreeing that DY should have custody. 

Silence speaks a thousand words...

completely agree!

Fine with me. I did skip over most of the discussions about Kyron's possible bathroom habits, but do not let me stop you. Probably time to rehash them anyway.

Don't forget the discussions that he is possibly +++++++ even though there have been published comments about the fact that he is bright. Some retardation comments were based on a photo where it was obvious he had not learned to smile properly for the camera.

Some people enjoyed the discussions or the would not have happened. If you think they cannot be considered dragging someone through the mud, please continue, and I will continue to skip over them.

 ::MonkeyTongue:: Exactly NRCG, although I have seen more nasty or sharply worded post in this thread than I have seen in yrs ::MonkeyNoNo:: and everyone is entitled to an opinion and not everyone will feel the same way......if we did, it would be dull and no reason to even have a forum if everyone thought exactly the same way. Thank goodness we are allowed opinion here thanks to the mods and Klaas.  ::monkeywine2::

I will say one more thing, when I watched the Dateline special Friday night, I did notice how bad Kaine looked and noticed IMO that Desiree and Tony didn't have that "look I can't describe".......I think it must be a form of guilt, Desiree and Tony wouldn't have as much considering they had no clue what he knew until he responded, but it does explain to me at least the difference in the appearances of the 3 of them.

Also, I highly doubt Ky will ever see has been posted about any member of his family~but Kitty will, and if by some miracle he does........I think everyone will rejoice that he is alive and get past everything posted on the net/forum/blogs as other cases get nasty too and family members who had nothing to do with the disappearance have been called to the carpet for their choices with were so incredibly damaging and possibly led to the circumstances which bring us here to SM.

I for one have no interest in Kyron's bathroom habits and the retardation comment, I will leave alone since it was said in very bad taste, and it is an insult to anybody that has or had a family member with Down's syndrome, period  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thank you for this, Grey.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/kainethumbnail.jpg)

Kaine Horman: Terri Horman 'master of deception'

by Michael Rollins
PORTLAND -- Kaine Horman had harsh words Monday morning for Terri Moulton Horman, speaking at the 'Wall of Hope' hours after Kyron Horman's mother Desiree Young lashed out at Terri in an interview on NBC's Today show.

"We're dealing with someone who is a master of deception, misdirection, and she's bringing it forward in spades," Kaine said of Terri during a press conference at the boy's 'Wall of Hope.'

Kaine said that, since the investigation began, he's heard directly from friends and family about conversations they had with Terri.

He said he realized too late, after he and Terri were no longer together, that she was crafting an image of her relationship with him and children in their household that was untrue.

Kaine told reporters that a good example of Terri's deception was her alcoholism. She hid it from him well, he said.

"It's only the tip of the iceberg" of her flaws, she said.

On the Today show, Desiree Young said Kyron hated going back to Portland after visiting her in Medford, something she wishes she had seen as a sign of trouble. She and Kaine talked about the boy's emotions, she said.

At the press conference, Kaine said he had not watched the Today Show and was filled in by reporters.

He acknowledged the boy's unhappiness about moving between the two homes. Kyron would be unhappy about it, but Kaine said he considered the child's behavior a normal part of  separation anxiety.

He and Desiree spoked about the child's emotions but Kaine said it was not something he thought required a change in custody arrangements. At the end of the summer when Kyron returned to Medford for a weekend, he said he would rather stay in Portland, Kaine said.

Kaine said Kiara misses her brother. She used to read while sitting in a bean bag chair with Kryon would sit on the bed and read. She still sits on the bean bag to read, wondering why her brother is not there, he said.

....ummm....most of us did not partake in the bathroom comments...and I believe those that did have that discussion were looking for possible theories of WHY TH might have harmed Kyron.  Just as many are doing and have done in many of the missing children threads.  I don't have a problem with people trying to figure out why even though it is pointless...who can understand a sicko and why they would hurt a child.

ITA txlisa. I do think that Kyron may have wanted to stay with Desiree when he was with her and hated going back to Terri's "tender" care, but when he was around Kaine, he  probably felt like he wanted to be around his dad. I think he loved his Dad a lot and didn't want to hurt him if Kaine ever asked him if he wanted to still live with him. Alone-time with Terri must not have been pleasant for Kyron.

As for saying negative things about Kyron to friends, she was probably guaging their loyalty as well as her hatred having to just bubble over sometimes. Perhaps, based on their reactions, she was looking for a similar-minded buddy to help her get rid of the child she hated.

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.   ::MonkeyNoNo::   He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.   ::MonkeyNoNo::  Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

"Kaine Horman told reporters today that he never thought that his son Kyron was in danger around his estranged wife in the months before he disappeared."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

::MonkeyEek:: I must have missed the "retardation comments"......I remember the comments that maybe he had some learning problems and "possible" developmental issues, but NOTHING like retardation......and agree that it is insulting to those who have family members with children that have Down's Syndrome. I thought it was more about the jist of Novella's post about downplaying the obvious, and I do know men who can never see anything wrong such as a learning disability when it comes to there chilld, but realistically it should be addressed IF there appears to be a problem (even retmotely), no shame in that. I had my daughter tested when she was in 3rd grade because I thought she had some learing issues and was worried, turned out she had an IQ that was in the top 96%, but thought outside the box and not in absolutes and was ADD. I think sometimes women are more in tuned with the kids as far as these issues go, men seem to want to not want to accept that their child is not perfect, but if they just bothered to ask questions and have them tested they would learn the kids are so much more than a diagnosis, and learn to accept them for what they are and enjoy the blessings....no child is perfect nor should they be expected to be perfect, they are a gift from above and sometimes I think men/fathers don't get it....but, that is MOO.

God Bless Kyron and please let this be the search than brings him home and finds hard core evidence that stands up in court so those involved are punished to the fullest extent possible under the law  ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::MonkeyTongue:: I just have a curious question........how can it be both???

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.   

7. Respondent's alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara's attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.  As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.

Sorry~I don't buy it but that's just me  ::MonkeyTongue::

IM - It really doesn't matter what you or I "buy".  He may not have realized until recently that her actions were alcohol related.  We really don't know. 

 ::monkeyscissors::

Kaine said that, since the investigation began, he's heard directly from friends and family about conversations they had with Terri.

He said he realized too late, after he and Terri were no longer together, that she was crafting an image of her relationship with him and children in their household that was untrue.

Kaine told reporters that a good example of Terri's deception was her alcoholism. She hid it from him well, he said.

"It's only the tip of the iceberg" of her flaws, she said.

I still think Terri abused more substances than just alcohol.
I guess Kaine must be referring to the picture she portrayed, at the health club and in possible emails to friends, of his "controlling" behavior and his "bad" relationship with James. Obviously he wouldn't have stayed with her if he thought she hated Kyron or hated him enough to put a hit on him.

Who knows, maybe she decided on disappearing Kyron as a test project. That would make offing Kaine a lot easier. "Suicide" over his son's disappearance would have been just a perfect cover. Poor Terri, nothing ever turns out right for her, darn it! ::MonkeyHang::

I agree...Kaine can't have it both ways.  And I am not badmouthing any party...just stating the obvious.

Kaine Horman: "Do I hope she had an accomplice? Absolutely, I do. Cause then there's a higher probability he's alive."

Reported by: Kyle Mallory
Last Update: 12:57 pm

Kaine Horman spoke to a gathering of media at the Wall of Hope Monday morning, addressing the case surrounding his missing son, Kyron Horman, as well as statements made by the boy's mother, Desiree Young.

Young appeared on the Today Show earlier Monday, and revealed that officials had provided her and Kaine with emails Terri had written.

"It's very clear from Terri's horrible words that she had a severe hatred towards Kyron," Young said.

Kaine reiterated his belief that Terri had something to do with Kyron's disappearance.

"She could have done it on her own, or with an accomplice," Kaine said. "Do I hope she had an accomplice? Absolutely, I do. Cause then there's a higher probability he's alive."

Despite his belief that Terri had something to do with Kyron's disappearance, Kaine said he didn't foresee this as a possibility.

"She's a master of deception and misdirection," Kaine said.

"Her (Terri's) relationships with the children in general were not acceptable," he added.

Kaine also touched on custody issues brought forth in Young's morning interview.

"She (Desiree) did ask (about custody), but there was never a court request, there was never a legal request, it was her and I talking about what was best at the time," Kaine said.

"And, based on that circumstance--he was gone (with Desiree) for six or seven weeks and then coming back home--he missed his mom, it's not enough grounds for 'hey we need to switch custody.'" 

The entire conversation can be seen in the video player to the right.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

He stated this in court documents:

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended. 

And now he says this:


He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic. If it wasn't until recently.....how could he know the following below

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

Yet...the passing out never got his attention?  Allowing the two baby children to be in an alcoholic's care never got his attention?  I wonder if Desiree is preparting to file a civil suit of her own...and not just against TH.

I wonder if the emails Desiree referred to (the ones that showed Terri hated Kyron) will come out fairly soon, possibly in adivorce or custody motion/response. I'm curious as to what was said.

Yes, I am wondering this, as well.  Do you think Kaine was shown the emails, as well?

In this video, he starts out saying her is aware of the emails.

It is a video of the full conference Kaine gave at the wall today.

Edit to add link MB:  http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

I agree we may not know (but I just can't see it personally IMO and how can he say for a FACT in his response where I just posted if he just heard from a few others, I would hope if he put it on a court document he actually witnessed it.  I can't see someone passing out on the couch a few nights a wk after drinking as NOT being an alcohol problem?...... but more important than that.......if she was exhibiting ANY signs (even giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was clueless why she was passed out on the couch, or that she had psychological issues), why not let him stay with Desiree until he was able to figure it out. I can't imagine leaving a child in an enviroment, much less 2 and one a baby where what he described in his own response he details what was happening in the home......

I have never stated I thought Kaine was involved in the disappearance -that is soley on Terri and whomever and the LE to prove and I sure hope that have the goods on her, I am just sick of these custody disputes when it is obvious there was a better choice, and it is heartbreaking to see all these cases we have lately as I mentioned ealier.....words fail me and I can only pray others learn from this and do what is right for the child, and not for them - I believe raising I child means selflessness, and it is rare to witness in these cases and the child pays the ultimate price, completely unfair ::MonkeyNoNo::

I don't get the difficulty in understanding why someone can find a person's behavior odd but not understand exactly why until later. Parents often have that problem with their teens, who start behaving differently, dressing sloppy, cutting school, sullenness, sleeping all day, up all night. The lightbulb goes on when they find drugs in their kid's room or the kid gets busted. Until then, it's "hormones", "trying to assert their independence," or "just the territory that goes with being a teen."

Hypothetical Scenario:  If my spouse behaved oddly and badly at times, it might be covered up as being something wrong with ME; something I did or said was making the spouse upset and I'd be trying to figure it out; lack of communication causing spouse to retreat to overdrinking at night after a stressful day with the kids, also my fault somehow. Little do I know, it's all an act to keep me at bay while spouse flirts and finds new fiance-to-be online, abuses alcohol, drugs or whatever, and plans a carefree, spouse-free life in the near future.

I missed that...thanks.  

Yes, if those emails are legitimate it is pretty sad that a grown woman could hate a seven year old.  It seems like many parents these days refuse to grow up and take responsibility for the children they brought into this world or for those they accepted responsibility for by marrying someone with children. 

So sorry, I omitted the link!

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

Agreed.......but is there and atty on this thread? I am wondering what the laws are for affadavits filed in Oregon, can they contain supposition and theory, can they contain heresay OR do they have to be facts witnessed by the Affiant? TIA, I am trying to remember my affadavits from my seperation and divorce, and I recall mine being facts I witnessed but that may not always be the case ::MonkeyCool::

ITA

Remember Kaine was being told by Terri that she had PPD and was taking meds for it and they had been seeking counseling.  I think it would be very easy for a husband to dismiss much of her behavior to the PPD.

I also think that Kaine, Desiree and Tony..as well as all the chidren involved were and are her victims.  I believe that the full responsibility for any of Terri's actions rests with Terri.  She was an adult and had free choice to leave..she did not..not until she was literally kicked from the premises. 

I do not believe that Kaine had anything directly to do with the disappearance of his son and ... I cannot imagine the emotional pain he is experiencing.  However ... there is a trust issue when the inconsistencies in his words regarding the environment that his children were living in under Terri's watch is considered.  I believe his THEN AND NOW words may border on an obstruction of the investigation.  IMO

Janet

++++++

Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM
 
In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about 'how could he marry a woman like this' and how could he 'not see this coming.'

In response, he wrote: "Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did."

"Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now," added Kaine Horman.

"There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html

If Terri's alcohol abuse was news to Kaine, why did he say he'd find her passed out on the couch a few nights per week?
I don't get it.

Never thought of that Janet........interesting point .

I guess my point is VISIBLY IMPAIRED (and that's just one of the issues with the stmt). IMO visibly impaired impaired by alcohol means just what it says ......but nevertheless if my hubby had all the issues stated above in blue, whether I knew for sure what they were alcohol or not, I wouldn't allow them to drive with two of my kids or even be alone with them, I guess it's about accountability and not after the fact when it's disclosed for other custody issues, but when it happened and what steps were taken to prevent this behavoir in the future.

I finally watched Desiree on GMA and that was horrific to watch, I am grateful that it is getting Kyron's face and story in the news though ::MonkeyTears:: ::MonkeyTears::

Many years ago my husband and I had friends.  Every time we would get together the guy would fall asleep.  Didn't matter what we were doing, he would fall asleep.  Eat and sleep.  Turns out he was depressed, bored in his marriage and was escaping but was not drinking.  The couple divorced.  Now, if I were told later that he was also drinking I would never have known.  He was "passing out".

He could possibly have thought at the time that she'd stayed up late and not wanted to disturb him. Or if she had a drink by her that she'd had one or two to relax at night; alcohol is a depressant, and could have caused sleepiness eventually. 

IMO, alcohol/substance abuse are part and parcel of the sociopath. They use it to cover up a worse truth--their personality disorder.

I'm very late...pages to go to catch up on...if this has been addressed already, then I apologize.

Kaine "probably knew"....if I recal correctly, Kaine said in his court filing that Terri was a stumbling, speech slurring, passed out in the living room drunk night after night.  Wow!  If all that's true....Kaine "did" know there was a problem and had known it for a while.

Since I don't work with the police...different line of investigation...I am wondering if it is common to show potential evidence...the emails...to the parent of a missing child?  That is not something we would do with a witness or family member, but we would show incriminating (motive) emails to the perp...Part of the "We know All".  By showing DY and KH the emails and both of them talking about it on the news gives TH a heads up of what to expect.  Why would LE do this? I find that very strange.  Is LE hoping for a reaction?  Since Terri has not really reacted to anything that KH or DY has said publicly...whose reaction are they looking at?

I find this very confusing.

Wow, just wow!  Oh, man....listening to Desiree gave me cold chills!

I KNEW Desiree would be livid after finding out about Kaine's court filings.  Livid at Kaine.  And IMO she should be...I know if I were in her shoes I would have been livid to find out things Kaine has filed in court.  He never said anything to Desiree about all of this...is it true!?!?!

I know that parents of the missing want answers...but how did that go down?  Look at these emails...what do you think...this is why she is a suspect.  Certainly those emails would show motive...which would be exceptionally important for a criminal trial?  Am I that far off base to think that LE would not leak potential evidence to a grieving family member who has talked to the press before?  Any answers...anyone? 

Desiree on the Today show Nov 15, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4QtcooAQgE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US

Personally I hope they are about ready to arrest someone

Also, Klaasend...when we are in terrible situations with loved ones...we do tend to make excuses because we love them and it is difficult to sometimes see the problem when you are in the thick of it...too busy reacting and limiting the fall out.  But, Kaine is making contradictory statements.  People can see that.  Contradictions are red flags. 

TY Brandi, very informative.

Kaine seems to feel they will be searching SI for some time due to it's size.

...and Kaine talking at the Wall of Hope today: http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

Thanks Brandi

Novella - I was thinking this exact thing.  If she hid her problem so well and he didn't know until recently that she had been drinking so much, what did he think the drinking several nights a week and passing out on the couch was?  I'm not vilifying Kaine, although I don't care much for him, but this seems to be a pretty big contradiction, ya know?

Okay, I've very far behind in reading and just reached this point, so if this has been discussed further...I apologize for being so behind.

Now, if all this is true and I have no reason to question Desiree, änd Desiree knew back then (a year before Kyron went missing) then why didn't Desiree get an attorney and move heaven and earth to get custody of Kyron.  Just because Kaine says it's not an option...doesn't mean a thing in my book.  I'm not blaming Desiree, DON'T misunderstand what I'm saying.  But I question "why" Desiree didn't try all means to get Kyron (if Desiree had the knowledge of how Terri felt, if Kyron wasn't happy).  Maybe my question has already been answered and I'll eventually get to it as I get caught up on reading the pages...but at this point..."WHY"? 

There's just something not right about this.  There's still more than we know. 

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

not sure this vid has been posted, first on the list below vid box

Divers search for Kyron
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=18816@koin.web.entriq.net&navCatId=156

I don't think anyone is placing the blame on Kaine or Desiree...Hindsight is 20/20.  I think what many are wondering is why the contradictory statements...not with Desiree...but with Kaine.  Why not tell Desiree...Look, I made some mistakes and this is what was going on...instead of Desiree having to find out about TH supposed drinking problem with the release of court documents.  Why make statements of TH being a falling down drunk that passes out on the couch in the court documents to "I had to put the pieces together" to figure out she had a problem with alcohol.  Why not allow Desiree to have Kyron if he knew that TH was a falling down drunk?  But this is all...WHY did it have to get to this point...the point of no return...the point where a child that was in an environment where he was endangered was allowed to be in that environment because the father did not think that falling down drunk and passing out on the couch a couple of times a week was a problem...yet it is in the court documents for custody of Kiara...it was.

I feel horrible for Desiree...my heart aches for her.  I can't even imagine the anger and heartache she is feeling...that we can see.

 ::MonkeyTears::

And really the worst thing is...the whole custody issue with Kyron seems to be about control and lack of respect for the other parent.  I think some people are walking away with that feeling after seeing Desiree's interview and it does not sit well.  It makes people question the custody issue at hand because we are seeing someone convicted in the court of public opinion before that person has even been tried in a criminal court.  I know who appears guilty, but at the same time I am not willing to waive anyone's right to a fair trial.   

I also want to say whomever rec'd those horrible emails must have been equally a POS if they didn't bring them to the attn of his Kaine and or/Desiree, what kind of person says that hate a 7yr old innocent precious child ::MonkeyMad:: I can't wrap my head around that mindset and I guess I don't want to. Also, I wonder if those emails by some stretch of the imagination have spurred the new search, IIRC they are using side scanning sonar so it seems more specific than a ground search or a search that happened right after Kyron's disappearance. I pray they find him in this search....I just can't imagine how much more they can take with without some type of resolution.

Interesting, Klaas. My first guess would have been narcolepsy, but depression fits.
Hope there's an arrest very soon as well.

And looking at the Zahra case, LE would not even confirm if the jailhouse letters were EB's...so what purpose would LE have to show DY and KH those emails?  Wouldn't those emails be potential evidence at least to establish motive? 

I hope so too Klaas.

Things seem to be heating up with the new searches and LE disclosing the contents of Terri's emails about Kyron with Desiree.

I believe that sharing was a well thought out decision by LE.  They walk a fine line and it is always a question of how much should be released to a grieving parent.  Yet, for reasons yet unknown, LE gave that information to Desiree. 

LE gave the information to Desiree and Kaine, not just Desiree.

Yes I know Klaas.  Do you know if Kaine rec'd that info. on Friday?

I have no idea when Kaine was made aware of the emails. 

IMO, you can go over the 'would a should a could a' all you want. My point is that Terri Moulton Hormon is the POI here. The past can not be changed.

This is all about getting that narcissist woman to tell the truth, and that truth would be, WTH is Kyron!  ::MonkeyMad::

thanks Klaas.

this could explain why kaine seemed odd,reserved in the beginning
maybe he thought at some point this is going to come out,then what!
because,maybe some of TH friends had expressed concern to kaine
over the emails so maybe he was aware, if he knew im sure he talked
to LE about it, maybe thats what  he was talking about,in his PC at the wall
when he some things in the home, DY might not be aware of but LE was
paraphrased, all very disturbing if true

DY
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40180429
kaine
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx

I'm sure they both feel too horrible for words.  I DON'T doubt that for one second.

I'm not placing any blame on Desiree.  I just have a question about Desiree.

Why place blame on Kaine because Terri is the unstable one?  Well, he lived with Terri, he was aware of all the problems. He has scorched the woman to high heavens in court filings.  According to Desiree, he never shared any of that with Desiree.  I knew when I read the filings that Desiree was going to be livid.  She should be!  She has every right! It just hurts so bad to see her so destroyed.

According to Desiree, she never saw any indications of problems with alcohol.  Yes...IMO...there's a problem with Kaine keeping all that to himself..."if true"...when another bio parent is kept in the dark....especially when Desiree discussed Kyron being unhappy and wanting to stay with her.  If Terri was a passing-out drunk several nights a week...why wouldn't Kaine have worked out something with Desiree to ease the burden on Kyron"?  Kyron had to have been stressed out over all of this; yet, everyone says he was a happy little boy and always smiling. We know when a child's homelife isn't going well, it shows up in little ways...usually through school.  I think Kyron loved his mother and wanted to spend more time with her and Kaine wouldn't let it happen...no, it's not an option...even though it would have been better for Kyron - if what Kaine says in his court papers is true. (Repeat: I have no reason to not believe what Kaine said in his filings was true.)

Kaine says in court filings that Terri is a stumbling, speech slurring, passed-out drunk many nights of the week.  He questions her mental health, too.  Yet, he appeared to be fine with having Terri take care of both his children in her condition. 

If I were Desiree and I found out what Kaine has asserted in his court documents about the person who's been taking care of my child...what the "father" says about the person he let that care of my child, I would be upset beyond words.  Now we hear from Desiree that about a year and a half ago she approached Kaine about getting custody of Kyron and Kaine says it's not an option.  She did broach the subject. 

I do wonder why Desiree wasn't more assertive in trying to get custody of Kyron, because Desiree said today that Terri blamed Kyron for all Terri/Kaine's marriage problems and Terri didn't like Kyron and Kyron was unhappy, too.  Now...IMO...it's Desiree's business as to why she didn't go to court and fight for custody. 

It's just a crying shame to hear about all of this now because where Desiree was already in a fragile state....now that Kaine's court filings have been made public...can only make Desiree's mind set soooo much worse.  It's too sad for words.

And, Kaine...while I DO have deep sympathy for him because his son is missing...immense sympathy...I can't help but wonder about why he wouldn't even discuss with Desiree of her having custody of Kyron...or at least a little more custody ( some sort of compromise maybe) when Kaine KNEW what kind of home life Kyron was living (if everything in Kaine's court filings is true and I have no reason to believe it's not)...Kaine portrays a picture of a person (Terri) who should NEVER be left to take care of his son...especially if she's got any mental problems, is a passing-out nightly drunk, etc. 

According to Desiree, Kaine NEVER relayed any problems to her...he wouldn't...he didn't want to lose custody of Kyron.  However, does it mean that Kaine acted in the best interest of Kyron?  Well, that's a good question...IMO.

And....now....why would Terri do anything with Kyron on June 4....just when Kyron was getting ready to go stay with his mom for the summer...just when Kyron was going to be out of Terri's life for a while?  Huh??

I still believe that Terri was telling Kaine she ad PPD nad was taking medication..and he atrributed much of the behavior to that situation.

IMO...which means nothing...just my opinion...I don't think Terri will ever say anymore than she's already said a thousand times in those first few days of being questioned by LE. We heard she was asked the same questions over-and-over, hours on end, for days and she's said all she's going to say. Either she's not talking or she's already told all she knows and LE isn't happy with her answers. 

I am starting to think something really horrific was going on in regards to the dynamics of the family, not the kids but Terri and Kaine and now I have to wonder "is this WHY she sent James away", and why she wanted Kryon out of the house.....I know I am grasping at straws, but when looking at everything I have to consider how the monster got in so to speak. Was there something we haven't exaimed thoroughly going on as "different lifestyle choices, drugs, dealers".........just tossing a few out, but I am just trying to think outside the box, while I do think Terri IS responsible I think the timeline might be a little tight for her to do the unthinkable and then get back to the gym, and not leave any forensic evidence behind. I can only lean towards she had an accomplice that got Kyron out of the school and it wasn't Terri directly that did the unimaginable. Sorry to ramble ::MonkeyNoNo::

Also as far as Desiree going to court to change custody, I know in most cases there has to be a substantial change in circumstance, at least to change custody in court......but, I know many who have agreed to out of court settlements when there was a significant change and these were done so the child wouldn't have to testify and save them possible embarassement/or trauma for showing a preference to live with one parent, and also cost savings (that money could pay for a yr of college in many cases), so I applaud those who can get past the typical issues and do what is best for the child. Like I stated I have seen it in 3 cases of friends/acquaintence, the rest were ugly, drawn out and very expensive battles and only one actually was able to change custody.

I fully understand how an alcoholic can deceive. 
A member of my family, although exhibiting unusual behavior, which I put down to emotional issues derived from the pain of feeling unloved by her Mother since early childhood.  Long story short, I now know she has had seizures, blackouts and has been hospitalized for same on more than one occasion.  I rec'd a call from her then boyfriend that she was in the hospital and why.  She denied her alcohol problem but I continued to approach her with my knowledge and attempted to get her help.  Perhaps because she knows how much I love her and have always been a caring Aunt (she lived with me when she was just 17 and was treated as we treated our own children) she made the admission.  Alas and sadly she has spiraled downward over the years.
Hindsight is 20/20.

My heart goes out to Kaine and Desiree, Kyron's siblings
and all the heartbroken family members that love him.

Okay..not placing blame here...but...did LE tell us that Terri hated Kyron?  If so, I haven't read that part yet and will eventually get to it if it's posted on SM.

PLEASE let them be on the verge of arresting someone...and quickly!!!

  Wow~ that is a great question and very thought provoking...... ::MonkeyConfused::

And....now....why would Terri do anything with Kyron on June 4....just when Kyron was getting ready to go stay with his mom for the summer...just when Kyron was going to be out of Terri's life for a while?  Huh??   ::MonkeyEek::   Wow, good question Puzzler, never would have thought about that. I'm not doubting anyone that has been saying that alcoholics can hide their problem, I'm just not familiar with any that were able to disguise it, and it is interesting to me, you would just think that some actions of the person you could put two and two together, but I guess some people are very good at hiding it.

His statements aren't contradictory if you look at the timeline of what he says. For example, when a crime is first committed LE can say they have no suspects, Mr X is not a person of interest. Two days later they can say they view Mr. X as a person of interest. Contradictory? No, just different based on new information. In Kaine's case, the more he found out, from LE and friends following Ky's disappearance, a new picture came into focus. A different picture. That's a change based on new facts. To blindly stick to what he first said and thought, despite new evidence to the contrary would make him Cindy Anthony, not Kaine Horman.

But, but, but...according to Kaine's court filing...Terri was a passing-out drunk several nights a week...IMO...that's NOT "hiding".

I won't say anything bad about Desiree, Kaine or Tony. There is no doubt in my mind they are beating themselves way more than we could ever imagine. After all we don't know the whole story still it is just bits and pieces thrown out for us to chew on.

As far as Kyron going to spend the summer with Desiree it was my understanding that first he was taking a trip with his Dad to visit friends in California.

My other thought is a whole summer with Desiree and Kyron might have talked. Maybe he threatened to tell Tony and Desiree what an evil SM she was. We don't know what happened that day. I don't know if we ever will. What I do know is these people are in a situation I would never want to live thru and not sure I even could.

How sad that those emails were sent and the friend didn't step forward with this information which might have prevented the loss of the this beautiful child. I really want to know which friend or friends these were sent to.  Also did she tell her parents she hated this child. Seriously how can a child cause so much trouble in a marriage? I imagine Kaine was defending Kyron and her wanting to constantly discipline him for one thing or another. If Kaine was so bad why does James want to see him again. That really doesn't make sense to me. He stated that himself.

Just rambling I know but emotions are running so high today with everyone. Imagine how the emotions are for the family involved. It is not up to us to make it worse for them. JMO

IMO...a man should know he's got a problem if his wife is a passing-out drunk several nights a week.  For Kaine to say that in a court filing...yet to say he thought every thing was okay...IMO those ARE contradictory statements and they do raise questions as to which is the "truth".

It would be interesting to know if Terri really was under a doctor's care and on medication from the period after Kiara's birth until Kyron's disappearance.

Anti-depressants are tricky medications, and they do not work the same for all patients. They take awhile to take effect, then it takes time to see if they are working. If they are not working correctly, the patient needs to be weaned off of one and put on another, wait for it to take effect, then see how it is working. Sometimes changes in dosage are involved. They are mind-altering drugs, and a patient may not realize something is wrong. Even after stopping the usage of anti-depressants, the effects can linger for a year.

Anti-depressants can cause coordination problems (stumbling). Anti-depressants, or the lack of, could cause the rapid change in Terri's appearance.

Alcohol is not supposed to be consumed while taking anti-depressants. I have no idea what previous stimulant or drug usage would add to the mix. Terri may have been a walking chemical bomb.

If Kaine cannot get to her medical records through the divorce, LE certainly will if the investigation/charges warrant it.

I do not want to see PPD or medications blamed for the disappearance of Kyron, and good luck on getting two "experts" to agree if it is brought up.

Good reminder! I'd forgotten about the PPD tale that had been going around at first. I think Kaine totally believed that until slowly that excuse seemed to get stripped away. I do remember thinking when I first heard the PPD story--"baloney!" Another possible excuse for the sociopath to hide behind. If it's not alcohol, or drugs, it's PPD, or the meds for PPD---all baloney. One thing and one thing only IMO--Sociopath. Everything else is a crutch these people use in their lives to make them seem like others, or allow them to interact realistically with others, even in a negative way. They need to be viewed as anything but the soulless, calculating, unfeeling empty shells they truly are.

All I can say is I have lived with an alcoholic who drank everyday. I didn't realized there was a problem until I myself was not drinking. When I stopped and have stopped now for about 25 years, I noticed how bad his drinking was. I have no idea if this is Kaines story or not but it could fit I suppose.

I find this all so sad. We have the bio mom saying if she only knew, a dad saying he didn't realize, a step mom who is now silent and a little boy who at one time wanted to stay with his mama, and who is now missing. It is a heartbreaking case of "what if's". Kaine does not have to answer to any of us, but I do believe he owes Desiree the full story. He has to own up to her completely, she deserves to know anything else which might come out from him. No covering, no stories, no defensiveness, just the plain old truth.

does anyone remember, the post about a woman who hated her stepchild
and couldnt understand why she did exactly, i think there was a link
 to that post, and i think that post had something to due with th
or maybe my memory is just bad

Really are you sure of this?

Yes, they would definately be evidence.  My, my...WHAT is really going on???

He may not have assumed at the time she was passed out drunk on the couch. Passed out could mean gone to sleep after staying up late on the computer. And even if he thought she did drink a few at the end of the day to relax, and goes to sleep on the couch instead of coming to bed, that doesn't necessarily spell alcoholic. It could mean marital difficulties, unwillingness to share the same bed. Now if he came home from work and found her passed out dead drunk on a regular basis when she was supposed to be watching Kiara or picking up Kyron, that would definitely be a red flag. But that was not the case. Besides, I think Kaine's just starting to discover that alcohol possibly wasn't the main problem. What makes the woman an unfit mother is what makes her unfit to be free--she's a sociopath! IMO.

This is why I was asking if affadavits can include speculation and supposition as opposed to facts. Like I said, when I had to file one, I stated what I witnessed with my own eyes and no speculating was allowed (but it could have been my atty, so I wish we had an atty to answer that question).

My brother is an alcoholic and yes they are extremeley deceptive, we never knew in the beginning what was up with him as he suffers from manic-depression also, BUT he was still never allowed around my kids alone and then only for Thanksgiving dinner and special occasions, even after rehab I still won't allow it, I'd never forgive myself if he had one of my kids in the car and had a car accident due to the list of problems in the reponse and never in the house alone with them either as I was always afraid he might forget to turn off the oven and burn the house down etc........it just wasn't a risk I was willing to take.

I am praying for an arrest as soon as possible, and hope this search is based on more than what they are telling us.

cw618! Yes!! I've been trying to find that link. I'm sure it was Terri. It was a site for step-parents. Was it from iVillage? Does anyone have that link?

I am listening to the PC and he pretty much says the drinking was something that concerned him but he didn't label it alcoholism until he spoke to other people about it. If that is what he says I suppose that is his story.

CW, that was on a site called Gardenweb.com. The forum title was called 'I hate my stepson'.

Does anybody know if there is a transcripts of this PC?

Found this one..........believe it or not, there are others  ::MonkeyEek::

http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/step/msg0619365026002.html?27

 

Found it!

Sassifrass posted it from Hinkymeter via iVillage

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8338.msg1197678

Jeez, I'm slow compared to the rest of you! ::MonkeyNoNo::

I am speculating here...but I think Kyron had been through, seen and heard a lot and had plenty to tell his Mom. He would have plenty of time on summer break to have quality time, long chats with his Mom.

Seems to me Kaine put other issues before his son's happiness. He wanted his son with him, and not give in to Desirees desire to have custody and Kyrons wanting to be with his mom. That happens all the time in custody situations. For Kaine to acknowledge and admit TH had a serious problem meant admitting he made serious mistakes. Well his son is missing and he can't avoid the reality now. Maybe Desiree did not have the money to go through a legal fight...who knows??? why she didn't push for it but I am sure she had her reasons.

And what was Kaine doing on those nights Terri was passing out? I have no idea but he might have had a few himself, maybe he could handle it. *shrugs Maybe he was an enabler. It is a crying shame somebody did not step in and take that sweet little boy out of an environment where that woman despised him. Time will tell if she did the unthinkable or not, but in my mind, hating a little innocent boy and making his life miserable is unthinkable enough.

Yikes that's terrible stuff!

You brought out a question I previously asked when I read whe was passed out drunk on the couch and Kitty was up extremely late playing in front of the TV (paraphrasing). I would have taken Kitty and put her in a crib by the bed directly beside me so she couldn't go get her again, that would have put her on a schedule which he states she wasn't on and made her less fussy. Obviously the marriage was strained beyond repair and had been for a while, so many times the functioning parent has to pick up the slack in situations like where one is drunk, drugged, passed out for "whatever" reason. As for the rest of your post I sadly agree ::MonkeyTears::

Taking from the previous post... ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/step/msg011826118329.html?60
Approximately 3/4’s of the way down the page a post by “stepmom2kids” posted on Saturday, March 13, 2010 at 18:35:

    I hate my step kid too. Its not pleasant to think of your husband with another woman making babies, much less having to care for them yourself as a free babysitter, and all the bull that comes with it. Out in the wild, hippos, lions and various other mammals will kill these offspring. I can’t stand my step kid, and he lives with us Frown
    Anyways, if I didn’t know him I’d say he’s a very sweet kid, that has a speech disorder/learning disorder, and as long as I wouldn’t have to be around him for extended periods of time, I’d like him, or be indifferent. But since he’s my step kid and I’m his main caretaker, I harbor a lot of resentment, that I worry may harm my health carrying all of this secret hate around, or that it will come around band bite me in the ass somehow later on. It is very unnatural having step kids, very unnatural to love them, it goes against nature is how it feels anyway.  I have often wished he’d get out of my life, but we can’t afford to pay child support and I have my own daughter to worry about. If we pay more than we can afford each month, how am I going to take care of my own daughter? That would agonize me much more than gritting my teeth everyday and enduring my stepson’s presence. I too would get up and do the gig if I only had to have him 3weeks out of the year. I used to wish that he would choke to death, and one day at a buffet it actually almost happened, man, did I regret that wish, I cried so much, I felt so sorry for his helpless little face as he chocked for air. I couldn’t have lived with the guilt if he’s dad wouldn’t of been there to save his life. Now I just wish he’d get abducted by aliens or something, Just kidding. He’s okay sometimes, but usually talks like a +++++ behind his years. I think he has some kind of learning disability that makes him very good with numbers, but a social +++++ (in my spiteful opinion). According to the dad he is a genius…Pff.. HAHA! What happened to me, I used to be nice, I still am a very nice person, it was normal for close friends to call me one of the nicest, accepting friends, accepting and befriending anyone for who they were. But being a step mom has brought out the worst in me, and is certainly the hardest thing I have ever had to do. I feel like Angelina Jolie in that movie where the police give her a kid that is not hers and he’s calling her “mom”, she throws a pan at the wall and shrieks, “I’m NOT YOUR MOTHER, DON’T CALL ME THAT!!!”. That’s what I want to do when he calls me mom. Instead I shutter inside, and on the outside, I smile sweetly and say, Yes? This is what my life will be from now on because I married a good guy who already had a kid.
 
 
 

I have not read the above link yet...but I have to say, you take an alcoholic woman and put her on the computer late at night and just imagine what she "shares". BUI...I learned that term right here on Scared Monkeys  ::MonkeyTongue:: Well men too for that matter.

Now I am going to the link to see what you all are talking about.

I really think this is from TH, with some lies thrown in to make it a more compelling, sympathetic (she thinks!) story.


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Posted by stepmom2kids (My Page) on Sat, Mar 13, 10 at 18:35

I hate my step kid too. Its not pleasant to think of your husband with another woman making babies, much less having to care for them yourself as a free babysitter, and all the bull that comes with it. Out in the wild, hippos, lions and various other mammals will kill these offspring. I can't stand my step kid, and he lives with us :(
Anyways, if I didn't know him I'd say he's a very sweet kid, that has a speech disorder/learning disorder, and as long as I wouldn't have to be around him for extended periods of time, I'd like him, or be indifferent. But since he's my step kid and I�m his main caretaker, I harbor a lot of resentment, that I worry may harm my health carrying all of this secret hate around, or that it will come around band bite me in the ass somehow later on. It is very unnatural having step kids, very unnatural to love them, it goes against nature is how it feels anyway. I have often wished he�d get out of my life, but we can�t afford to pay child support and I have my own daughter to worry about. If we pay more than we can afford each month, how am I going to take care of my own daughter? That would agonize me much more than gritting my teeth everyday and enduring my stepson�s presence. I too would get up and do the gig if I only had to have him 3weeks out of the year. I used to wish that he would choke to death, and one day at a buffet it actually almost happened, man, did I regret that wish, I cried so much, I felt so sorry for his helpless little face as he chocked for air. I couldn�t have lived with the guilt if he�s dad wouldn�t of been there to save his life. Now I just wish he�d get abducted by aliens or something, Just kidding. He's okay sometimes, but usually talks like a +++++ behind his years. I think he has some kind of learning disability that makes him very good with numbers, but a social +++++ (in my spiteful opinion). According to the dad he is a genius...Pff.. HAHA! What happened to me, I used to be nice, I still am a very nice person, it was normal for close friends to call me one of the nicest, accepting friends, accepting and befriending anyone for who they were. But being a step mom has brought out the worst in me, and is certainly the hardest thing I have ever had to do. I feel like Angelina Jolie in that movie where the police give her a kid that is not hers and he�s calling her "mom", she throws a pan at the wall and shrieks, "I�m NOT YOUR MOTHER, DON�T CALL ME THAT!!!". That�s what I want to do when he calls me mom. Instead I shutter inside, and on the outside, I smile sweetly and say, Yes? This is what my life will be from now on because I married a good guy who already had a kid. 

http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/step/msg011826118329.html?60

Sorry monkeys and TG, you beat me to it. Will I ever be first with anything?? ::MonkeyWaa::

With all the step moms there are across the world, this could have been written by a great number of women. Pathetic for sure, maybe something that should have been said to a therapist instead of posting it on the internet.

Sorry scatty, didn't mean to step on your toes. I just posted from your post, so thank you for finding the post.

It fits that it is Terri but unfortunately it could be just another POS step parents. I do wonder if this posting prompted an email. Could this be apart of the emails LE showed Desiree?

I don't understand why it ever comes as a surprise to anybody who is thinking about marrying or living with somebody with kids that the kids sort of hang around some times! Geez! 

No doubt, and as a stepmother I LOVE my boys....I was going to adopt the youngest who is now almost 24 but he didn't want to move to Florida and away from his friends, but when he is on leave from Iraq or on leave from base, Thanksgiving and Christmas he is here and I feel blessed to have them both ::MonkeyAngel:: So, it's incredibly disturbing to find so many post that I wonder why someone isn't monitoring those sites....ugg, I am sure they prolly couldn't do much, but they most definitely need therapy ASAP, and that is also what I think about those emails and why someone didn't confront KH, DY and TH and insist on therapy. That specific post TG and Scatty found in that link sounds so much like TH and the child support part among all the rest makes me physically sick to my stomach ::MonkeyMad::

I have step daughters, I consider them to be my children. 

I'm waaaaay behind and will never be able to read every post, but after reading several of your snarky posts grey, I just couldn't take it anymore.  Add me to the list of posters who are offended by you.  AGAIN.

What makes you really think this is Terri H? You are kidding, right? It could be her, and it could be a lot of people.

I respect you, Klaas, and agree that the speech sounded angry.  I'm just really sick of the snark.  I'm surprised she's allowed to do this over and over and over.  Maybe I'm just too sensitive, I'm going through a trying time here, and I just really feel like Grey is over the top smartassy.  It's uncalled for, and I guess I just need to quit reading here until Grey gets some happy in her pants.

I'm sick of all the drinks and banana toasting, but I don't complain.  It's just nice forum manners, I wish Grey would learn some.

Hi O4Bull I miss see you around! Sorry you are having a difficult time of it.

Just throwing my 2 cents in.  Terri would of used the proper word/spelling "shudder" not shutter.  The writing/wording is to simple to be Terri Hormon...jmo.

See...that sounds odd...when juxtaposed with his statements in his filing - that Terri staggered, slurred her speech, passed-out drunk...several nights a week...

I suppose he is saying he didn't recognize the signs of alcoholism? Does it really matter though if you put a lable on it or not? The signs do not change do they? Does it become more serious if your "wife the alcoholic" passes out on the couch, slurs her speed and stumbling a few nights per week, then just your "wife who has a few too many a few times per week" but also is found passed out on the couch, slurs her speech and at time staggers about? I don't know, it wouldn't surprise me he also was drinking. I don't know if that is true and is just my opinion. I just get the feeling there is more to come out and none of it will be pretty. 

To me they are contradictory, he states she was on medication for ppd, then says he knew nothing of it, knew nothing was wrong then in court doc's he says she is a falling down drunk, earlier in the case he said he saw no signs of her drinking.
Sorry you can't have it both ways.

I don't know if it was written by Terri but it sure is interesting timing. I am really curious as to how this post was found. What made somebody check postings on random sites about a step mother hating her step son? Who originally found this and how were they told of it? does anybody know? Perhaps this was a leak?

 ::HelloKitty:: O4B~so good to see you posting, pls don't let someone's attitude stop you from posting, speaking for myself and I can say many others we miss your posting, insight and humor. Maybe you could loan a thong out for some "happy" pants ......
 ::MonkeyTongue::

What a heartbreaking case, this on top of Zahra's case ......well, it's just unimaginable and I have always worried this case would turn out like HaLeigh's case with no resolution, no semblance of closure for those who love this little boy and miss him

You can bet that TH's attorney will ask Kaine if she was a drunk, and all of the things he brings up in his motion, then why did he continue to leave his children in her care.  THis is a double-edged sword for him, and I think he needs to drop it.  JMO

 ::HelloKitty::

1.  People are concerned about the high rate of divorce.  But it appears that Kaine wanted to keep his marriage together and was willing to work on the rough spots.

2.  I know I complain about fathers that are merely "sperm" donors, but Kaine is a father that loves his children and did not want to become a weekend father or every other weekend or whatever the terms would have been.  Instead of applauding him for wanting to keep his son, he is criticized.  A son that is living with a master teacher.  A woman who has been praised by several people apparently.  He loved her at one time and probably saw the person that she could be.

3.  Alcoholism- I know of so many undiagnosed alcoholics that are professionals that it's ridiculous.  As a non-drinker, it is so glaringly obvious to me.

 It's totally acceptable to people.  It boggles my mind, but most people have no clue about alcoholism. I can spot it a mile away. 

4.  To blame Kaine for wanting to keep his child because of these results, who in their wildest wildest dreams could fathom something like this?

It's like blaming the victim of a rape. 

Agree.

I think Kaine was hiding the truth because if everything came out and Kyron came home, he could have lost custody of Kyron.

I agree that it could be any one of the (probably) many stepmoms out there that have issues with their stepkids.  (and that's not to say that many stepmoms aren't perfectly wonderful parents to their stepkids.)

I also agree that Terri probably would not have made such errors in her writing, but who knows?

I do find it interesting the post was made March 13 (the day before TH's birthday) and the poster registered her birthday is April 14 (I know some people who change their birthday when posting things online, to avoid being identified).   

JMO but I think Kaine is going to use whatever he has to keep the present child away from Terri Horman until this is resolved.  I personally can't say I blame him at this point.  Until or Unless she talked and cleared it in "my mind" that she was not involved in Kyron missing I'd throw everything I had at her to include the kitchen sink to protect the present child.  And I'm sure guilt over Kyron is pushing him forward on this.  All JMO.

yeah, that's where I was headed too.  LOL.  I'm waay behind!

passed out, slurring her speech, and combative.  what did he think it was, PMS? ::MonkeyHaHa::

This one issue has been a sticky point for me since the response was released......no matter what was causing her "issues", none of the kids were safe and while I am sure no parent could imagine the outcome, what about accidents happening, I guess I am a worrier because I think about those type issues all the time, only a few ppl can drive with my son in the car and gratefully we are less than a mile from his school, and now that my daughter has been driving for yrs, I have almost no fingernails from worry.

Obviously no child was safe with Terri for more than one reason and if there had been an out of court agreement for Kyron to live with Desiree for a while and no court papers filed, I wonder if that would have changed anything ? Maybe not, maybe so.. but the guilt from the what if's must be killing him, and the resentment I think Desiree is entitled to after learning this from the press are just gut wrenching. Add that onto the pain of Kyron missing and I can't imagine how they go on everyday ::MonkeyNoNo::

I keep going to the "silence" of LE, the cryptic things they do say when speaking out.  Example, we know things we wish we didn't know?
I have been very quite the past few months holding my judgement on anyone, and afraid this is going to be worse than we could imagine when all told.
Going back to what I was reading earlier today on Kaine's statements today found this so odd>>
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html)

Wouldn't that be second hand information, why wasn't that worded as such in the court documents.  I am not judging KH I feel for him, only wish he would admit he didn't maybe pay enough attention.  When ever anything comes up he says "others told me", "now I get it".  That does bother me.