Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

FP Scared Monkeys: http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/natalee-holloway/

Thanks San and Nut!   ::MonkeyKiss::

Thanks TM and Nut.  Now I can have my coffee.

YUP!  ::CowboySmiley:: lol

Thanks for changing the dates on the other thread.  I went to do it and they were changed already.  You are a quick as Klaas  ::CowboySmiley::

http://abcnews.go.com/International/natalee-holloway-case-authorities-results-test-jaw-bone/story?id=12191532&page=2

Source: Dutch Officials 'Almost Certainly Know' Whether Jaw Bone Belongs to Natalee Holloway
Forensics Teams in the Netherlands Have Had Holloways' Dental Records for Days

By SARAH NETTER
Nov. 19, 2010—

The Dutch forensics team charged with examining a jaw bone that washed up on an Aruban beach has had Natalee Holloway's dental records in hand since Tuesday, more than enough time to make a comparison, a source close to the family said today.

"They almost certainly know by now the results," the source told ABC News.

"There are mixed signals," the source said. "If it wasn't her I'd think they'd come out and say it wasn't her with all the fanfare."

Aruban prosecutor Peter Blanken made headlines Thursday by telling CNN that the jaw bone was that of a young woman. Yet, after flying to the Netherlands for the testing, Blanken is headed home to Aruba, the source said, based on information out of Aruba.

The Forensic Institute said earlier this week that the announcement of the findings would be left to Aruban authorities.

The bone, which the Dutch-language paper de Telegraff reported was the lower half of the jaw with one molar still intact, was found by tourists last week on a beach in Aruba.

Holloway, an 18-year-old high school senior from Alabama, vanished in the island country in May 2005 while on a school trip. If the bone is confirmed to be Holloway's it would be the first piece of physical evidence that the teenager was dead.

The suspect in her disappearance has long been Dutch playboy Joran van der Sloot, who has never been formally charged.

Van der Sloot, who was 17 years old at the time of Holloway's disappearance, is now being held in a Peruvian prison after confessing to the murder of Stephany Flores, 21, earlier this year.

Both of Holloway's parents, who are divorced, are said to be waiting for word from Aruba.

"The authorities haven't confirmed anything with me," the teen's father, Dave Holloway, told The Associated Press.. "It's pretty much total silence."

There have been many false hopes regarding Natalee's disappearance in the five years since she went missing.

Beth Twitty , Holloway's mother, has made several attempts to get information out of van der Sloot, who has promised to talk then reneged or spoken only in vague terms.

Theories, Rumors Abound in Natalee Holloway Case

Hidden-camera video footage surfaced last week of Twitty meeting with van der Sloot in the rat infested Castro Castro prison in Peru, imploring him to talk to her, even offering to help him.

"I want to know what happened and I want to move on, Joran," Twitty is seen telling van der Sloot, who was 17 years old at the time Holloway disappeared. "I want to move on in my life and I can't close the book."

Van der Sloot, who let Twitty do most of the talking during the portions of the tape that have been released, said in response that he has "never listened to anyone who's meant well for me."

"It's very hard for me to talk to you. It's really not easy," he says in the video, released as part of a Dutch documentary. "I've made so many bad decisions for all the wrong reasons. ... I'm really very addicted to perks, especially gambling. That's why I've told so many lies."

Twitty was left in tears at the end of the meeting with no sign that she had come any closer to finding her daughter.

There have been numerous theories about what happened to the pretty blonde teenager. Some have speculated that van der Sloot threw her body into the ocean, while others have claimed she was sold into the sex trade.

Aruban officials sent a dive team into the ocean in March after a Pennsylvania couple captured on camera what they said was an underwater shot of Holloway's remains. Forensic experts were skeptical and the search was called off after nothing was found.

Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures

Oh yeah. What a coinky dink  ::MonkeyNoNo::  Jaw bone washes up on the beach --  strolling visitor finds it, picks it up and turns it in -- and it belongs to a young female -- and there is only 1 person that it could belong to because only 1 girl is missing on Aruba  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Okay, Frank -- the lesson 'reminder'  ::MonkeyWink::

THERE  ARE NO COINCIDENCES IN A MURDER INVESTIGATION

Justice for Natalee Hollway
Peace for her family and loved ones.

The skank is probably sulking because Aruba wants to end the game.

What will she do with her spare time, now?  Look at the bright side skank ho -- more time to drink and be skanky.

I always wondered what 'skin' she has vested in this? Her passion -- in the form of hatred for Beth -- is so unnatural and unfounded.


What's that you say karma? Yes -- you ARE on your way.  ::MonkeyWink::

I hope today is the day Monkeys  ::MonkeyKiss:: But we are one day closer  ::piggy::

 ::HelloKitty:: ::HelloKitty:: ::HelloKitty:: ::HelloKitty::

I agree.

So true Sharon.

I see no word yet.  We are going to be out and about today.  Will continue to check in from this bb. :-)

Oops posted in #853 by accident.  Hard from this phone.  Ttyl

Just dropped by to say hello and to see what was up, if anything.  Have a good day and Happy Thanksgiving week to all. 

Hi Klaas.  You'll be a whiz at it in no time.
Nice to see you checking in from time to time.

Hi Tylergal.  You have a good day too.

So hoping we get the answer from Aruba today we're waiting for...TODAY!

Hi Tyler, we are here waiting for the announcement of the test results if it is Natalee's jawbone or not.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Morning all ...

I would also find it hard to believe that they do not know one way or the other whether the jaw belongs to Natalee or not. The fact that there has been no word yet leads me to believe that it is and the Dutch/Arubans have to get their ducks in a row and strategize damage control.

If the news is yes then this is going to begin a media frenzy and many will have egg on their face and blood on their hands.

So true Red.  Blood on their hands-----we have known from day 1 WHO those people were.

I am so tied in knots over this.  I cannot imagine how Beth and Dave and Matt are handling it. 

Aruba-----hand her over NOW.  Face the consequences for what you have done to Natalee and her family.

Klaas,  the BB is hard to get use to trying to log in and type and post.  I finally got it down pat and then our company blocked my email and blogs so I just went out and got me an Android with 3G and no one can tell me now what I can and cannot look at on my phone.

I agree Red.  But you know they will deny deny deny.  The timing is perfect.  It's our Holiday to make an announcement like they did so many times before, Paulus is dead and Joran is a dead man walking.

Right.. I was thinking the same thing. I think we all are.

Holland has had soldiers killed in Afghanistan in IDE explosions. What, the families of those killed sit around and wait weeks for ID while the bones sit in a bone drawer. Me thinks no.??

It's probably damage control. Afterall, these idiots won't even search their own island.  ::MonkeyShovel::

I agree, Red.   ::MonkeyCool::

Everytime Aruba tried damage control they ended up looking like incompetent immoral rejects. But that won't stop 'em...again.

Face it, there is no story that the world will believe other than Joran killed Natalee with the help of the Kalpoes and Paulus and Steve Croes helped disappear her body. That's it - go with the truth.

Admit there was a conspiracy if this is Natalee and put the whole mess to rest once and for all.

That won't happen, and Aruba will be ripped from one hemisphere to another and deservedly so.

Very little news at all since last night, nothing on 24ora (odd imo).

Cigar shop broken into and robbed.

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=5340&offId=0

(http://www.awe24.com/_moblog_items/5340/2_1290267902.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

6 hora happen | fecha: 20/11/2010 | horario: 05:41

ladronnan owing to break enter steal computer important y several ciga of cohiba at the mill

saturday madruga owing to enter informe of kiebro y ladronicia at cohiba at the mill, at once owing to dirigi one patrol at the sitio. at arrival of the patrol owing to come constata cu ladronnan owing to break the door principal y owing to bay cu one laptop y also several ciga plant, lora y paqueta at aruba self. the owner not can owing to tell exactamento cuanto but during day the will haci one inventory for so saca afor all locual cu the ladronnan owing to take away. come across

Can we assume none of them work on the weekend?    ::MonkeyRoll::

I agree, except I'm thinking there were a few more involved. 

Koen wasn't sleeping with mommy and daddy and diving behind the couch for no reason, imo.

And there's a much longer list for the conspiracy to cover it all up!

JMO

I wonder what the Kalpoe's are doing today?

We just don't understand their system!   ::MonkeyGavel::

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

 (from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

Probably having major discussions (well as major as they can be for Kalpoe's anyway...)about how totally f'd they're gonna be!
 ::MonkeyGavel::

Or when there's a box of Frosted Flakes tempting them.   :roll:

I respectfully disagree about the PR damage control. Identifying the bone as Natalee's is a step in the right direction, IMO. It's not like the world doesn't know she's dead and was murdered on Aruba. Joran's latest victim in Peru sealed that up for any doubters. If Aruba admits this bone is hers, then it's a tiny step in showing the world they won't hide something and are not corrupt. They would then need to do a search to find the rest of the remains, but that would be the best effort to attempt to restore their image. That path has the most potential for positive spin. At this point they can "assume" she went for a swim and drowned or simply stick with "There's not enough evidence to persue the case"  or even "We need to bring charges against Joran, but geee, Peru won't let us have him." 

Coming out and announcing it's NOT Natalee is what would bring a lot more criticism in my book. JMHO.

There have been at least a few major storms in Aruba since 2005.  

Tomas was not the first.

Just sayin'.

BBL!  

Sorry......... I need to modify that last post of mine. I'm not sure my opinions about the PR control disagrees with anybody elses. I need more coffee............ sorry!!! 


MAY THIS THREAD BE THE ONE THAT WITNESSES NATALEE COMING HOME!!!

Probably doing another underwear check.   ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyDance::

Can you imagine how many cups of coffee are consumed on this forum!  Folgers and Maxwell should be paying you guys! ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'll drink to that (http://bestsmileys.com/coffee/2.gif)

 In the previous thread monkeys were talking about a candle light vigil from the past.  How or who starts those and could we start one in the light of hope of new evidence?

If this jawbone tursn out to be the remains of Natalee Holloway, I wonder just how quick the Kalpoe's will go into hiding. More so than usual.

Hi Rob - nice to see you.

I wish we knew if the tests have been completed and sent to Aruba.

Red, do you think Jossy would know?

That door can swing both ways - How fast can they turn on Joran!  ::MonkeyJnBox::

Good morning everyone! And hope you are having a good "vacation" Klaas! ::MonkeyWink::

That is such a BEAUTIFUL photo of Natalee...  ::MonkeyAngel::

I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, waiting and praying... I've never stopped praying that Natalee's remains be found... So hoping for Beth and Dave that Natalee one day be brought home... So much hope and trust in the Lord that this is finally the time...

Yeah, Red, I agree...

And Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours too!

What if they decide that even if they can't prosecute Joran at this time but they can charge the Kalpoes - That would be a total game changer for them don't you think?

It would be interesting to find out what the remains of Natalee will bring to light with what happened that last night she was with these creeps.. Maybe a skull fracture??  I wonder if there are any searches in progress there where the jaw bone was found.  Whether it was Natalee's or not, one would think there would be a thorough investigation going on in that area... but then again I'm talking about Aruba  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Them dumb a$$'s better hurry up and talk before he pulls his lies on them first

nice to see you too, can.

I think the tests have been completed. It can't take more than 30 minutes to over-lay the electronic images with the images created of the new jaw bone. jmo.

even if teeth are missing - you can still see if the jaw bone alignment is a match.

This isn't super complicated.

My hope is that Blanken notifies Natalee's family and gives them a day or two to absorb the news before releasing it to the world.

My prayer is that this is why they are waiting over the weekend to release any news.

My knowledge of the past behavior of the OM's office reminds me this is likely not the case.

Still... I pray.

According to Jinkasauras no one is doing any searches they are all just waiting like us.  That's so sad ::MonkeyNoNo::

  At the very least that would be the respectful thing to do but Aruba has never shown any respect for Beth or the Holloways. It would be nice to see the tables turn and they deserve that much! ::MonkeyAngel::

I would lay money that the Kalpoes would turn before Joran does.  He's not going to admit that he's scared it's not his nature.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Thanks and I agree Rob. 
According to Jinkasaurus, Pros. office are on stand-by around the clock.

What's the hold-up?!   ::MonkeyNoNo::

They KNOW. If it wasn't her -- they would screaming to rafters.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

 ::rhino::

I've had alot of theories about what happened to Natalee and where it happened. I eventually became convinced that whatever it was it happened at the Sloot's.

I did have one theory I posted about that still seems to ring true in my mind, and with all these new developments - well, I can't help but remember it.

As we all remember the last known point of any sighting was the LaCabana area heading north. Right after LaCabana is the bird sanctuary. I, at one time, suggested that these idiots may have entered the bird sanctuary and killed Natalee there. There are no cameras and it is secluded. This is where Deepak said to turn off the overhead porn on DVD.

When committing a crime like this you don't do it on the beach where someone can see you - you need privacy. They could have easily pulled into the bird sanctuary and committed this crime. There are some gates that open and close with a swinging arm type gate, but for the most part - it's not a very secured location. I think someone could enter at night and not be seen. There is high grass and that would obscure view.

If they left CnC at 1:08 am and ended up at the Sloot house at 1:40 - that leaves enough time to kill Natalee and run to Paulus.

One part that always seemed off or odd if you will - why would the Kalpoes load a dead girl into their car and chance all that blood all over the place. In my mind it is more likely that the crime must have taken place in the car due to the amount of blood the FBI said they observed. And we all know that there was something as it turned to chocolate and cleaning fluid.

So, if they were at the Sloots, it's unlikely that they re-loaded Natalee into their car, but may have taken a deceased Natalee to the Sloots after an assault at the bird sanctuary.

Paulus' and Anita's cars being confiscated makes sense that the crime may have occurred somewhere else and then one of those vehicles may have been used to move her once again - perhaps back to the bird sanctuary, or maybe Natalee was scattered around.

I guess there are thoughts that can lead you to believe that this crime could have happened in a number of places.

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

I agree with you, Wreck, as to Lisa in MD's point #4.

Also:

All the signs point to the Gottenboes' boat being used in the disposal at sea.

I tend to think that Steve Croes, a thoroughly self-serving opportunist, merely thought he'd be paid handsomely by Deepak (using Paulus' money) to supply the eyewitness report to a Holiday Inn dropoff that never happened.


JMO and only MO

I'm amazed they haven't said anything yet to try to clear their name

somehow... I think the announcement will come on Wednesday night - right before thanksgiving. That's how they roll....that gives them a news blackout, basically.

maybe I'm wrong.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

Both the dimensions & how far out the trap was have been posted multiple times.  I just was searching but can't spend the time, at the moment.  I think someone can point you in that direction.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4641.0

Lisa, there are pictures, dimensions and what ever you need at the above thread.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

And here. This thread by Blonde.

I understand, It just seems to me that if the crab trap theory was correct then more than just the mandible would have washed ashore by now and given the storms maybe on other parts of the beach. JMHO

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck.  Our "theories" did not come easily.

The trap was, I believe, 7.5' x 7.5' x 2'.  It was found close to 2 miles off of Arishi Beach
at a depth of 90'.

Again Thanks SusieQ - here is what I found there...

.  DECEMBER 30, 2007 - 2ND ROV DIVE - VISUAL INSPECTION

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable …

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

I'll bet Rob is right that we'll have to wait until Wednesday.

God Bless Natalee's Family.

Snoopy Courtois  RIP  7-27-1995   11-20-2010  Best dog in the world.

Look Monkey, I didn’t say anything about a Turnip Truck I think there are some extreamly bright Monkeys here and I am Friend Not Foe – Just a Friend with a different opnion!

As for all of that hard work – Yes, I agree and it is well appreciated too!

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »

.... Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #176 on: March 19, 2008, 07:27:10 PM »

.... The trap's doop is usually fastened to the outside of the trap. It was laying inside the trap, as if pushed open. The contents sampled inside the trap were laying on top of the door. The trap was found in 90 ft.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366832;topicseen#msg366832


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  .... Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach.

Kermit

Snoopy,
I am so sorry.  I know that your heart is aching. ::MonkeyAngel::

Do you know something we don't?  Just asking is all. 

::MonkeyTears::

 ::MonkeyKiss::

Lisa, no one is disrespecting you at all. I think you are just not up to speed as most of us. We are not saying that the mandible floated out of the trap (although it is a remote possibility). The Arubans dove on that trap and removed it's contents. Where that mandible has been is anyone's guess.

No, I have been here right along with you from the beginning I just started posting on the forum although I was reading it all along.  When the mandible washed up I just started thinking and it lead to a different theory as to where it washed up.  I know we don't even know for sure that it is Natalee but I have a feeling of hope that it is. I love being here with you monkeys and I am not trying to ruffle fur.  I just have a different Theory and it could be proven wrong along with the best of them and then again maybe it could be proven right!

Snoopy, our thoughts and prayers are with you...we have two precious little rescue dogs that we love so much.   I hope this will help comfort you... I don't know who the author is so I am unable to give due credit.


Little Angels Poem

Little angels from up above
sent to us so full of love.
Never judging, always there
a faithful heart that is so rare.

Gentle eyes, shining bright
an energy of holy light.
Loyalty, that is unmatched
so easily we are attached.

A love so pure, none to compare
sweet memories that we have shared.
Never could one ever dream
the impact from this little being.

They touch our lives, more than we know
we live with them and watch them grow.
Share our laughs and our cries
always soothed by loving eyes.

Little angels so strong and true
they live their lives just for you.
"Good bye" for now, we will meet again
my sweet and pure angelic friend.

right!!

and Aruba had 4 hurricanes since Natalee was murdered. That includes Tomas.

Lotta hurricanes for a hurricane free island.

I'm so sorry.   :smt056   

Isn't is very strange that Greta has not mentioned anything about Natalee on her blog?  I was just in there reading over it and, unless I missed it, I cannot find a mention of it.  Very strange to me.

My heart breaks for you.  Losing a pet IS losing a family member.

Shy monkey....incredible poem.  Thanks for sharing.

I guess my thoughts are it would be pretty hard for a mandible to just wash ashore. I do admit it seems like it is possible, but not very likely at all.

There are rocks and coral out there and it would be snagged and buried under sand. It's highly unlikely it washed up in my opinion. Not to mention, nor forget, the current which is very strong even though it looks calm. Took me a half an hour to swim from the Bahia catamaran to shore at the Hyatt and it's only about 500-600 feet. The current is stronger near the Phoenix.

It either washed there from Bubali or was buried there this entire time, in my opinion. It didn't come from the ocean.

Of course, it could have been planted, but I doubt that because it would rely on a chance discovery to make a "startling" find.  And I don't see a Geerman involved - YET!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm not surprised. Girdle is a kook, and oblivious.

You shared your love for over 15 years.  May your memories bring you comfort.   ::MonkeyAngel::

Yes, I was hoping she would be there, snooping around...knocking on Nadira's door  ::MonkeyJnBox:: and stuff.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Again Thanks SusieQ - here is what I found there...

.  DECEMBER 30, 2007 - 2ND ROV DIVE - VISUAL INSPECTION

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable …

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

[/quote]

Lisa

Tim Trahan claims he was unable to see what the Aruban divers claim they clearly saw during the December 30, 2007 observation dive.

+++++


The Observation Dive - December 30, 2007

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kermit

Thanks guys.  Don't want to be OT. 

I sure wish we'd hear something soon.  As our beloved Peaches use to say...."I'd like to slap somebody silly"

We want justice.  We want Natalee back.  If the jaw bone remains belong to Natalee, and they think we'll be satisfied with that and just go away then they are FOS.  I believe with all of my heart that they have most if not all of Natalee's remains.   Just sayin

Kalpoe brothers how's that lawsuit workin out for ya?  Yea your day's coming.

Come Across

Girdle is still fuming that she paid Joran for another bogus story. She's an idiot.

Thanks Wreck, I'm not taking anything personal.  I also mean no disrespect.  I like the enteraction as long as no one gets hurt.  You never know what fasinating idea a monkey will have and they change from day to day.  I figure it's okay to be right and it's okay to be wrong when it comes to theory and speculation.  I'm just a little stuck on wanting those jetties searched. If I wasn't boycotting Aruba I'd do it myself!

I just wish they would find her and give her family some peace and I hope that when they do find her it will expose that terrible island and all its demons!

I have to go Paint a window ceil but I will be back to roll with you monkeys later!

Lisa

Tim Trahan claims he was unable to see what the Aruban divers claim they clearly saw during the December 30, 2007 observation dive.

+++++


The Observation Dive - December 30, 2007

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kermit

I'm sorry Snoopy to hear about your dog.

I'm starting to lean toward this is Natalee. As wreck said - they would be screaming from the roof tops if it wasn't her. I sure hate to get my hopes up again and since the discovery, I have been rather calm about it all. Just been there too many times before.

But it's roughly 8:30 pm in Holland now - so I guess there won't be an announcement today - I know, shocking! lolol.

They know one way or the other by now - and they would have said it's not her.

I have learned over the years not to get too excited, but I have also learned to judge their responses or non-responses with a keen eye.

 ::MonkeyCool::  I certainly don't rule out the "jetty theory" at all. None of us know!! I was just commenting on how you were ruling out the trap theory.

I love her too Wreck.   ::MonkeyBike::

  ::MonkeyTears::

OH, by No means.... Not Ruling it out I'm just not convinced.  There are several other theories out there and it could be any one of them or none of them or even a combination of them. I'm sorry, if I left anyone here with the impression that I was completely ruling the trap theory out.  And you are right about my not being up to speed because allot of you did a lot of work on these theories long ago and I didn't have much time then to take it all in. That's why I asked for so much help on the Jetty theory because I knew the leg work was out there I just didn't know where.  All of that info -  the maps and photos and accounts were a great help in what I was thinking.

Anyway, I gotta go or my hunny is going to get up set he said he'd paint the walls as long as I painted the trim!  See ya !

My sympathy to you Snoopy ... I'm so sorry.  Lived a long & happy life.     ::MonkeyAngel::

I am so sorry, I know what you are feeling. I have held off on a post for some time as it was too painful to finish and post. My thoughts are with you. Our pets do nothing but love us unconditionally.

Take care.

Lisa

Both the observation dive of December 30, 2007 and the recovery of January 7, 2008 were conducted by Aruba divers only.  Aruban authorities were on board the Persistence during the observation dive and ... Aruban authorities were on board a recovery boat during the recovery dive.

When the Aruban cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 is considered ... do you not think that something hinky was taking place on board the Persistence in regards to the events encompassing the trap.

Janet

+++++


Natalee's Uncle

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245
 

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine.

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

The Ultimate Betrayal

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kermit

Could it be that that Natalee's jawbone was planted in the Palm Beach area of Aruba ....

1.  To distract from January 7, 2008 recovery of the trap's contents by Aruban divers in the Arashi Beach area?

2.  In an attempt to establish a negotiable avenue for Joran to be extradited from Peru to face murder charges in the 2005 Natalee Holloway case ... murder charges that will never result in a conviction?

3.  To appease Beth Holloway whose ongoing voice for her daughter will continue to be Aruba's worst nightmare if answers are not forthcoming and ... until she can bring her daughter home.

Indeed, it is odd.

Excellent post Rob  ::HelloKitty::

So am I.BUT I'm just not convinced
 I never thought she was in that cage .
I always thought she was tucked away close by the water.
 I always thought Palus desposed of her body because  He knew joren would talk and talk and could not be trusted.
There are rocks and coral out there and it would be snagged and buried under sand. YES
It's highly unlikely that she would washed up but with all of those storms the had .
One could have drifted away it's like she was stuck and now she's free. ::MonkeyNoNo::

 :smt022

I'm so sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you.

http://www.petloss.com/rainbowbridge.htm
 
Thank you so much for sharing with us.  :smt056

Janet - does everything have to be a conspiracy to favor a Sloot?

I guess I have never really understood your line of thinking when it comes to an underlying motive for things that have never occurred.

++

Snoop - sorry for your loss too, I know it's hard.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Rob

There has been an Aruban conspiracy since May 30, 2005 to favor the "Sloots".  Attempting to get Joran back on Aruban soil is just a continuation.  IMO

Janet

So true Sahron!

O/T And hope your are enjoying the new season of Burn Notice as much as I am!

Snoopy, I am so sorry to hear about your dog.  As you know, I like dogs better than most humans but know yours is at peace and will be there for you when the time comes.

All of the above.

If they are going to give Natalee back to her family now is the time.

4. To make us all go away after five years of fighting and supporting Natalee and her family.

We aren't going away until justice is served.

I tend to agree with this idea that the mandible washed down from Bubalbi.  First there was storm surge into the swamp then it receeded which is when and how I think it washed out at this particular time and location.  What are the odds of it washing ashore right where Bubalbi drains into the ocean?

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24487-nan-ta-bek-.html

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/11202010_CNNbackinAruba.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

they're bek

saturday, 20 november 2010 13:14

by yesterday afternoon one equipment of produccion y transmicion of cnn is back at aruba, relaciona cu the investigacion cu is wordo haci rond of the kaak descubri in lama at height of westin resort. ministerio publico owing to send the kaak the netherlands for her centro forensico can investiga if the is of one being human. but in prensa mericano sinembargo already they're speculando cu the will can is of natalee holloway, perdi at aruba by year 2005.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/11202010_CNNbackinAruba2.jpg)

 ::rhino::

Oh, I think they are perfectly capable of holding information and releasing it right on Thanksgiving Day, probably between noon and dinner hour!

As Rob said, that' how they roll!

Or they will drag their feet saying Peter Blanken is in The NL and only he can make the announcement.  Or that they could not locate the family first, blah blah blah.

Wow, TxMom!  You are so good at that news coverage.

So CNN is back on Misery Island!  They either know or are like us and betting on this being Natalee.

Interesting......... maybe they need to do their "damage control" to their own people of Aruba before they do the "damage control" for the rest of the world! They have sold the Aruban people a bill of goods --- now they have to explain why they put the island through hell for 5 1/2 years.

http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/huez-comisario-ta-dicidi-ki-ora-un-adicto-ta-wordo-poni-bao-curatela/

Papiamentu translation:

huez comisario is dicidi when one adicto is wordo poni bao curatela

publication: saturday, 20 november 2010.

categoria: general

ronny paskel, 20 dossier owing to bay ministerio publico

oranjestad (aan): daily paper owing to as one interview cu sr. ronny paskel, coordinador of ministerio of salud y sport relaciona cu the proyecto of adiccion. past owing to señala cu sr. jan van der straten owing to come cu one plan cu past owing to present at gobierno caminda cu past owing to elabora on the posibilidad for vang op the drogadictonan, principalmente the chollernan on caya y trece they bao of one sistema of curatela. place one person bao of curatela do not so facil.

have one proceso cune y have cu cuminza recaudando informacion of the person y his pasado relaciona cu his problematica of drugs, owing to tell.

have cu acumula all the hechonan, the procesverbal, among another y work one dossier of the person. the dossier here have cu bay ministerio publico caminda they're evalue y look at if the is good y kico more miss. akinan have declaracion of the family cu in principio is esnan cu is ask for place one person bao curatela, owing to agrega,.

near of this sr. paskel owing to indica cu hour cu the dossier is completo, ministerio publico at his file is entrega the dossier here at huez for ask huez encarga cu the curatela for her declara the person here bao curatela.

hour cu the adicto is bay curatela, according the plan of sr. van der straten, at minister visser is cu the fundacion is bay is curator of the adicto here. owing to come resulta cu this do not factible. miembronan of the various fundacion have to is curator of the adictonan, owing to señala.

all the time, the proyecto owing to entrega 10 dossier at ministerio publico. one of the personanan here owing to fayece one week after cu the dossier owing to stay entrega y is stay 9 person on the dossier here cu owing to bay for ministerio publico y for huez, owing to tell.

have 20 dossier more cu owing to being entrega in his totalidad at ministerio publico y cu also is at caminda for bay hueznan for place one date on cual the caso will worde atendi y cu the person have to bay worde poni bao curatela.

hour cu the worde poni bao curatela esey is encera cu the person here huez can place in one period of one year, contra his boluntad the is worde recogi for of upstairs caya, poni in centro dakota y achieve tratamento compulsory, owing to enfatiza. after of one year, huez is bay evalua if the person here owing to fix. is bay study all his dossiernan y the therapy cu past owing to achieve, because; also the raport of psicologo, of psiquiatra y con the year ey owing to transcuri. if after of one year, huez is achieve cu the person here is suficientemente good, the will kit’e for of curatela without cu have to of prolongacion.

esey is nifica cu hour cu the person leave, the plannan is for her bay in the phase caminda the is bay in one cas caminda the will achieve alohamento for so cuminza his proceso of adaptacion in comunidad. during the proceso here of recuperacion will percura for her person achieve one trabao also y re-socializa, ronny paskel owing to indica. after of the trayectoria here is of wait for cu the personanan can is suficientemente good cu they can bay integra in comunidad.

owing to agrega cu have personanan cu still after of the period ey they do not cla for bay in comunidad. eynan have one plan work for brinda the person one maneho, one proteccion in sort of comunidad aparta caminda cu they can follow live.

this is become also one form of castigo alternative cu huez can impone, envez of sit castigo at kia, for her personanan cu is adicto y cu have problemanan cu they conducta.

ronny paskel owing to indica cu this is the partinan cu is cay bao of cdc (choller detention center) cu is bay change the name for centro of motivacion, caminda the personanan here is bay worde interna at kia.

the idea is for they worde poni in the centro of motivacion y of eynan bay centro dakota for they achieve they tratamento y hour they leave they bay in the centronan of soporte cu have, owing to tell.

have already end some cas of soporte on the island y is intencion for acomoda the personanan here separadamente, person man y person muher apart. in future, have to percura for have one cas so for hobennan also, already cu have one cantidad creciente of hobennan cu is become adicto y cu have to of aid, owing to manifesta.

near of this have the adictonan cu voluntary owing to acepta for bay sand domingo y cu is kedando also at hill colorado. the personanan here for conviccion own owing to dicidi of change they life. they're worde motiba for they achieve tratamento y for they can cura.

the trabao here is uno much intensivo. have hendenan cu is acerca they constantemente on caya for busca mood of motiba they, already cu not can take away they contra they boluntad, owing to expresa.

I agree with you and Lisa that IF the mandible indeed "washed up" -- it was from the jetty or Bubali. I just don't think it washed up -- it was planted.

My condolences on your dog, and hugs coming your way.  It's hard to loose a good old friend like that, but apparently you took very good care of your friend and I'm sure they knew they were well loved, and loved well in return.

Yeah, I finished painting  ::MonkeyDance:: and I'm back!  I saw this and agree this is another very good theory!

:-(

Hugs to you Snoopy.

RIP Snoopy Courtois

Yes, Yes, and Yes! I've said it before, but I feel strongly enough to say it again: I believe with all my heart that Beth has caused the timing of this. With the recent airing of Peter's show where Beth confronted Joran in jail and then she and Peter returned to Aruba, Beth's words are still ringing in their ears.

She told Joran that when he was sixty she would be across from him asking to let her bring Natalee home. On the beach in Aruba, she promised to return in 5 years with Peter and maybe she could touch the water. They don't laugh at this slight woman anymore. They have learned to believe her, and they have every reason in the world to know that as long as Beth can suddenly make headlines in her quest, the shadow that is Natalee's will loom large over their island. I believe there was a closed door meeting of interested parties where it was decided to give her something of what she seeks in hopes it would dampen her determination.

They want this to all go away. They always have. They just grossly underestimated the steely resolve of a Mother and they underestimated the indignation of those who support her. It's never going away until Natalee is home as a first step.

The Rainbow Bridge
Inspired by a Norse legend

By the edge of a woods, at the foot of a hill,
Is a lush, green meadow where time stands still.
Where the friends of man and woman do run,
When their time on earth is over and done.

For here, between this world and the next,
Is a place where each beloved creature finds rest.
On this golden land, they wait and they play,
Till the Rainbow Bridge they cross over one day.

No more do they suffer, in pain or in sadness,
For here they are whole, their lives filled with gladness.
Their limbs are restored, their health renewed,
Their bodies have healed, with strength imbued.
They romp through the grass, without even a care,
Until one day they start, and sniff at the air.

All ears prick forward, eyes dart front and back,
Then all of a sudden, one breaks from the pack.
For just at that instant, their eyes have met;
Together again, both person and pet.

So they run to each other, these friends from long past,
The time of their parting is over at last.

The sadness they felt while they were apart,
Has turned into joy once more in each heart.
They embrace with a love that will last forever,

And then, side-by-side, they cross over… together.

So Sorry you are sad now but rest easy...Snoopy's going to be there when you get there! ::MonkeyAngel::

Snoopy......... I'm so sorry!! I know it's hard and know how much love passes between us and our furbabies. I don't trust anybody that can't love a dog! I'm sending you heartfelt hugs!!

Well said CBB  :smt038

I will also say this.  If they are Natalee's remains.  Anita will move off the island and return to the Netherlands with her youngest son next year.  As we all can see the youngest son is not turning out so well and I think she wants him to continue his schooling in the Netherlands under the watchful eye of her relatives.

JMO

Well said!! That is precisely why I think it was planted.  ::MonkeyCool::

Most Certainly a Case of Gross Underestimation on their part!  There will be no dampening going on but things sure could heat up! ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyTears:: OMG Lisa......... you got me on the poem.......... groping for kleenex........


I'm nervous about the lack of an announcement about the bone. How on Earth do Beth and Dave go through this? It's beyond cruel to delay an identification and at this point, I'm convinced that's exactly what is happening.

I HATE THEM ALL!!

They are all cruel.  They have no heart.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81262.php

English version:

‘Jawbone belongs to a young female’

19 Nov, 2010, 13:25 (GMT -04:00)

Email dit artikel 
Print dit artikel 

ORANJESTAD — The partial jawbone found by American tourists on the beach near the Phoenix Hotel last week Friday, belongs to a young female. At any rate, that’s what American media are saying, who base this on comments from field officer Peter Blanken. He is currently in the Netherlands and was not available for comment this morning.

Meanwhile, the Public Prosecutor (OM) here does not wish to comment on the case and says one will wait for the result from the Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI). Whether Blanken had indeed told the American media that it regarded a jawbone of a young female, solicitor general Taco Stein could not ‘confirm or deny’ this morning. “As I have not spoken to him yet, I do not know what he did or did not say. Our viewpoint remains that we wait for the result from NFI,” Stein said before the Amigoe.

It is unknown yet when the research from the Forensic Institute will be completed. However, the solicitor general does know that no result will be available today anyhow. “We will probably know more next week.” Stein says that based on the result, the OM will ‘consider’ what will be made known to the media and that any relatives will be informed first. “You can imagine the Holloway-family is having a hard time now.” Stein did not wish to anticipate of which consequences a positive identification could have for the investigation into the case surrounding Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless, he says one has meanwhile searched the location where the jawbone had washed ashore. This investigation had not yielded anything, according to Stein.

For that matter, it is still not certain whether one could remove sufficient DNA from the jawbone for positive identification. “We will have to wait what the experts say, but the bone had been in the seawater for a long time.” The DNA material from the jawbone will be compared with the DNA profiles from Natalee’s parents. Dental data from Natalee is supposedly sent from the United States to the Netherlands for comparison as well. The American teenager disappeared without a trace in 2005 after spending an evening out at Carlos and Charlies. Joran van der Sloot was the last person she was seen with. Joran is meanwhile on remand in the Castro Castro prison in Peru. He is suspected of murdering the Peruvian student Stephany Flores last May.

Some of you may find this fascinating some of you may not …

If the Mandible turns out to be Natalee’s then the Kalpoes have just as much explaining to do as Joran does.  New Statements should be in order.  I believe if this occurs the Kalpoes will turn against him or him against them and more information will come out maybe enough to lead us to Natalee. We can only hope!

This brings to light what Allison Dubois “Medium”said back in November 2005.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10283432/


COSBY: And real quick, I don‘t know if you can foresee the future, but will we see closure to this case, real quick? 

DUBOIS: I actually do think one of the boys will turn on the other boys and offer up something that will lead to a resolve of the case.  I always did see them near the water with her.  So my concern is that Van Der Sloot knew exactly where to put her, water-wise, where the decomposition or the elements in the water would make it so that she would not be found. 

yep - better move fast and get that youngest slob in den dolder with Dr. Johan before he ends up killing a local girl and the island mobs the house and burns it to the ground.

no offense Lisa, but 80% of the island is near water of some sort. Ponds, drainage ditches, the ocean, pools, overflow spillways... etc. etc....

sort of hard not to be located near water ... on an island.

...with them in it.   ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

They are SCARED - They see an angry mob at the door!  The Rooster has come home to Roost! ::MonkeyHang:: Wimps!

LOL - You speak the Truth! ::MonkeyHaHa::

I’m getting ready to throw tomatoes at the television!  Every 10 minutes Could it be…  ::MonkeyEek::Could it be…  ::MonkeyEek::
Alright already  ::MonkeyShocked:: – Tell us what we want to hear!!! ::MonkeyWink::

My Point was more so that, this could be the thing that turns them against each other enough to force the truth!

I totally agree.  This is the most feasible idea, I believe.

I am so sorry.....we knew it was coming....but it is never easy....hugs to you and M

Sadistic & they seem to enjoy holding the cards regardless of the truth of the matter at hand or anyone's misery.  One-upsmanship or something.

I'm wondering if the hold up may be that they are running tests on the degradation to see if they can detect where it's been. Say possibly in the marsh? Or maybe they are trying to establish who it is if it is not Natalee before they give us the news .. You know to cut us off at the pass so to speak.  I know that is a daunting thought!  This is knawing at my heart! Driving me   :2ukli: ::pullinghairout::::bananadance::

maybe they will be forced to drain a nature reserve... .. oh God, wouldn't that be delicious.... ::MonkeyHaHa::

How many young white females are missing on that island????? Who else COULD it be? According to them, Natalee was the first crime ever committed on the island ......... and they really haven't admitted Natalee was even a crime victim yet to begin with!

At this point, Natalee's ruled out or in. To not be letting that out is cruel to the family regardless of what else they feel needs to be done.

I'd bet a lot of money that they're testing for the possibility that date rape drugs can be determined from the tooth before they make a decision whether or not to admit it's Natalee.

The identity has been made. There is no scenario that isn't incredibly cruel to hoard that information alone, and no decent reason not to. The dental records would nail Natalee in or out and they've looked at those by now at the very least. This is an outrage and they are not doing themselves any favors.

Do you think they would have the decency to inform Beth and dave before announcing their findings to the world......................................... HIGHLY doubt it.

Wreck............ you and I think alike. It crossed my mind, but then I laughed.   ::MonkeyCool::

Have they ever announced over a weekend?  I can't remember?

Hi Rob!  Hi Monks!  thanks Rob....I was wondering when someone was going to say it's an island!  LOL  OK...back to the rafters for me ::MonkeyHaHa::

Arubans urge Holloway's father to delay search during Peruvian probeBy the CNN Wire Staff
June 17, 2010 -- Updated 2256 GMT (0656 HKT)

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Natalee Holloway's father wants to search swamp area for daughter's remains
Authorities want to wait until Peruvian authorities give more information
Aruban investigators will not question van der Sloot until after Peruvians

(CNN) -- Aruban authorities are urging Natalee Holloway's father, Dave Holloway, to delay volunteer search efforts in her disappearance until police get better information on the case from Peruvian investigators who have spoken to Joran van der Sloot, prosecutor Peter Blanken said.

Police do not want their investigation jeopardized or possible evidence contaminated in the Bubali Bird Sanctuary, a swamp area where Joran once said he dumped Holloway's body, Blanken said. Aruban authorities wish to search a more focused area once they receive more information from van der Sloot and his laptop, which may include files linking him to the Holloway disappearance.

Earlier, Blanken said investigators from Aruba would not be able to question van der Sloot until Peruvian authorities finish their probe of the May 30 slaying of Stephany Flores. The formalities of Peruvian law also will determine the time frame, the prosecutor said.

Aruban and Peruvian authorities agreed to "help each other" in the Flores case.

Van der Sloot, a 22-year-old Dutch citizen, was arrested twice in Aruba in connection with Holloway's disappearance but released for lack of evidence. Aruba is part of the Netherlands.

He said he was in Peru for a poker tournament and met Flores while gambling. Police have said they think van der Sloot killed Flores to steal money she won.

Van der Sloot told authorities he attacked Flores on May 30 after she read an e-mail on his computer connected with the Holloway case.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/17/aruba.van.der.sloot/index.html?npt=NP1

Authorities kept asking Beth, Jug and Dave if Natalee had a history of seizures.

Van Der Stratten said "Because I have seen the evidence"

They were going to frame the security guards and return Natalee.  When that didn't work they closed ranks and couldn't let the world know what Joran the son of a so called judge had done.  It didn't work because of Beth.

Deepaks own words "We all had sex with her.  You wouldn't believe how simple it was".

I think they've finally figured out that Beth keeps her promises.  She isn't going to go away.  This will never end until Natalee is returned and justice is served.

  Yes! Now that some EVIDENCE has gotten past them they are in a terrible JAM and they can't figure a way out!  OMG the WORLD IS WATCHING!  It's not going to be so easy for them to Lie thier way out of this one!  They are probably trying to figure out where they can hide Van der Stratten!  Maybe Lipo and Plastic Surgery?

Have you ever done something or said something and then had a V8 moment okay I'm LAughing!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyCool::

JVM just said any minute the results will be known.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

It's midnight in Holland. Come on now mullethead.  ::MonkeyDevil::

she wasn't specific which minute - like it could be one tomorrow or the next day or the following day - or even next week.  ::rhino::

OFTEN!  VERY OFTEN!   ::MonkeyJnBox::   We have all been there, done that! ::MonkeyWink::

according to Stinkasaurus - the Hague will make the announcement. If I caught that right.

She is on :smt033 without a doubt. Rob I think you were spot on when you predicted Wednesday evening.. ::MonkeyWink::

This hasta be a repeat from last night right? someone tell me it is...

There was a small part about the family murdered - and found in the tree... but it was revealed today that they were stabbed and dismembered - so this show must be from yesterday - right??

and is that her 'personal' opinion ::dogwag::

Hi Sunny  ::HelloKitty::

happy holidays to you ...

I think it's easy to think it will be Weds - after what they did during Katrina anyway..

Maybe the KLPD is busy rounding up all the co-conspirators before they make the earth shattering announcement.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I know I know.... I almost threw up a lil even considering it...  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Start at the police station in Noord  ::MonkeyDevil::

Happy Holidays to you Rob and to everyone....yes, I agree.....and they loved to make announcements on Friday and Holidays.....

I don't see this as anything other than purposeful..... why wasn't the area  taped of and every inch of that sand sifted through..IMO...because they knew what they planted and where....and why has the 'tourists' who found it not stepped up?  This just stinks of a script they are writing as they go......

They couldn't even put on a good show.  They don't need to tape off the beach area where the bone was found because they already have the rest.  Jeez they can't do anything right.  Idiots!!

Exactly snoopy.

You bet SunnyinTX.

Authorities were fully aware that the rest of Natalee Holloway's remains were in an evidence draw in those little bags that were were used in the trap recovery process.

However ... going through the the motions of an investigation of the area of the "find" may have convinced some that the dignity and respect of the person connected to the jawbone was a priority.

Something akin to the tourist who took the underwater picture in Aruban waters  that appeared to be skeletal remains ... I would think the tourist who found the jawbone would have stepped forward by now for his/her 15 minutes of fame in the talk show circuit.  I could be wrong.

Janet

Nancy Grace is always a repeat on weekends.....JVM too, I think. I do not have cable anymore so I can't see what you are watching.

Sorry, I don't know how to bring the video over! 

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24490-atencion-special-pa-aruba-atrobe.html

Papiamentu translation:

atencion special for aruba again

saturday, 20 november 2010 20:02

popup video

canalnan of television mericano is dunando atencion special for her caso of the "kaak" cu one tourist owing to descubri week happen in lama among westin y phoenix resort. is specula cu the "kaak" can is of natalee holloway, cu owing to lose at aruba by year 2005. by yesterday the canal noticioso cnn owing to arrive aruba y is transmitiendo bibo for of we island. at more cu one ocasion owing to bay "live" stop fast edificio of ministerio publico. the message is cu the investigacion is casi cla y cu in the next dianan the netherlands will divulga cu if the "kaak" is of one being human y if the will can is of the student mericano. separa of cnn, mayan diadomingo one equipment of nbc also is at aruba y fox news also is haciendo preparacion for come give cobertura for of aruba. others also is pendiente for see cu if have one desaroyo interesting for they also cuminsa come direction for aruba. financieramente also presencia of the ekiponan of produccion here have one efecto positive. directie telecommunicatie zaken (dtz) is cobra for derechonan of transmicion for of we island. in some caso the ekiponan is huur companianan of produccion local for help they or is huur taxistanan for core rond cu they all day. the berdad is cu still not have none novedad in the caso of the "kaak" cu the turistanan owing to encontra in lama week happen. ministerio publico is think cu in week the result will stay cla y they will divulga cu if the "kaak" is of one being human y in the caso ey for verifica cu if the is of the student mericano. till still all cos is stay speculacion, because the opcionnan can is various. have more person perdi at aruba. mature is cu the bad time of ultimo simannan owing to cause cu wind owing to become y lama owing to become bruto. in the caso here lama owing to saca all locual the had scondi in fondo. separa of grass, past owing to saca one "kaak" also. is think cu for tuesday will can come more claridad in the asunto here.

Aruba threw down a bone for Beth to get the monkey(s) off their back.

Does anyone know if Anita and her youngest are still on the Island ?????

Yes,Anita and sebastian are still in Aruba.  Valentijn might also be there if he's done with school.

Wow, that just amazes me

Somebody go and listen to this interview at RU.  It is suppose to be Daniel and Kelly the
psycho psychics, but it sounds exactly like Steph Watts to me.


Edited to remove link = San

Note to self.  Don't click on a few of those videos without shutting the other off  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I can't tell.  I will listen again.

This guy said Odobur met with him and his wife.

That is definitely not Steph Watts.

It Sounds like Steph Watts to me too but, Who ever it is he's - He's a total Wack Job!

That first one that is the interview with Paul Lilly sounds just like Steph Watts to me.
No wonder he was so anxious to bash Beth.  

Are you sure San?? Listen again.

Magnolia if you don't mind I'm going to remove those links in a few minutes.  So if people want to listen make sure you save the link please.

Part of it is Daniel and Kelly, but it is in cahoots with Steph Watts, IMO.

Daniel and Kelly are married to each other now.

I could have clicked on the wrong one.

Sure San,  I know better than to link to there, but it sounded important.. all things considered.
Sorry

OK got it.

That's OK Magnolia.

I wonder if it bothers Silvetti or Trahan at all that more than likely they could have returned most all of Natalee's remains, but instead Beth and Dave may only get a jaw bone?  Does that not tick you off?

Unbelievable

 ::rhino::

It ticks me off, Snoopy and I do believe it, unfortunately.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I cannot imagine Aruba would not have been out searching the area where the jawbone was found.  This would have shown they are interested in finding Natalee.  Either they know for a fact nothing else is there (because they already have the rest of her); ...or they have been advised not to start this search back up.  This is the most corrupt form of law enforcement I believe I have ever seen.  Maybe it is because it is the one I have paid the most attention to.  That is really the pitts when you cannot trust the LE.  I still go back to the first night.  I believe Joran took Nataee to his house and something happened there.  He freaked out, called daddy and daddy helped him,  I still have chills when Beth got to he Sloots house.  I thought for sure Natalee was still in that house somewhere.  JVS is one really sick b@$++++!!!!! ::MonkeyNoNo::

Waiting is hard, isn't it?

Anything they announce between now and Thanksgiving, will be the talk among families getting together. Really bad press one way or another for Aruba. I feel for the good people of Aruba and wish the bad people to get whatever is in store for them.

Don't forget, good monkeys, while we are waiting and if we are ordering books, software, etc vs. biting the rest of our nails, use the Amazon link on this page and it helps Red keep the forum going.

A safe, Happy Thanksgiving to all! Over the river and through the woods....

Snoopy I am so sorry. Mine is 14 and blind. I that God every day I have him. So sorry Snoopy, Love, IBE

Happy vacation, Klaas! I didn't believe you ever took one

ps CBB am going over and ask for a Christmas outfit for my imp avatar.

Not that they won't do it, but very soon they're going to come under some growing criticism for not announcing the findings. Too many forensic scientists out there on TV saying "They know by now!"

You would think that just once throughout this whole thing they could make a move in the right way. Sheer odds would suggest they'd screw up and do it right just once!

Waiting is particularly hard when there's no need to have to! I feel so bad for Beth and Dave, knowing how we feel, I can't imagine how hard this is for them. Sadistic Bastards; I HATE THEM ALL!


PS Backatcha IBE: I'll be glad to get you dressed for Christmas!  ::MonkeyDance::

IBE it sure is good to see you.  I think of you often and hope you are doing well.  God Bless.

I Fear the Worst but Prayed for a Miracle

Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 6:  On Monday, May 30, Natalee's trip came to an end, and she was due to fly home to Alabama.  But late in the afternoon, I received a call from Matt telling me that Natalee had missed her flight and that Beth was getting on a plane to Aruba.

Page 7:  Beth had flown out of Birmingham on a friend's private jet as soon as she learned that Natalee had missed her flight.  I contacted a commerical airline and booked the next flight out for 5:30 a.m. the following morning.

Later that night, Matt called again to tell me that Natalee's flight had been rebooked, and she would be coming home the next day.  Someone from Delta Airlines had confirmed that a female had called and changed the flight.

I cancelled my flight, but I was still concerned because no one had heard from Natalee.

The next morning, I started making more calls.  I could not reach Beth, and I was unable to get a member of the Aruban police force to talk to me on the phone about Natalee.

By noon I learned that Natalee was not getting on the plane.  I found out that it had been a chaperone from Natalee's group who had changed her flight in the hopes that she would reappear.  It was then that I knew something tragic must have happened.  I feared the worst, but prayed for a miracle.  I hung up the phone and broke down .....

+++++


ARUBA: THE TRAGIC UNTOLD STORY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY AND CORRUPTION IN PARADISE
By Dave Holloway

Publisher: Thomas Nelson Publishers-Business (Mar 15 2006)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1595550631
ISBN-13: 978-1595550637

A Life Forever Changed

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 23:  Rested and refreshed, we leave Memphis late Monday morning with Linda driving and Marilyn up front with her.  I take the backseat.  We sail along, chatting like we alway do, talking about our plans for another road trip one day soon.  Marilyn and I are happily speculating about what our daughters' reactions will be when they open their presents to find a set of extraordinary Wizard of Oz figures.  Natalee will gasp with excitement when she sees these.  Before we know it, we've crossed over into Mississippi.  Somewhere amid our conversation, between the chuckles and the small talk, my cell phone rings. I don't recognize the number, but answer it anyway, which I usually don't do.

It's a young girl.  "Mrs. Twitty?  My mom ... umm ... my mom, she umm ... wants to talk to you."  It's the daughter of Judi, the travel agent.  She developed appendicitis right before the trip, so she and Jodi didn't get to go to Aruba.  They are in Birmingham.  It seems like an eternity before Jodi takes the phone.

"Tell me what's going on," I say in a voice much firmer than the one I usually hear coming from my mouth.

She simply says, "Natalee didn't show up this morning to get on the plane."

And instantly I know.  It's more than a mother's intuition.  It's certainty.  Something terrible has happened.  I have just answered the proverbial dreaded phone call that no mother or father every wants to receive.  The one we fear from the moment our children are born.  The one that changes a parent's life forever.

++++++


Loving Natalee
A Mother’s Testament of Hope and Faith
By Beth Holloway

ISBN: 9780061452277; ISBN10: 0061452270; Imprint: HarperOne ; On Sale: 10/2/2007

Betcha the Poes butts are squinched up real tight right now - they could cut a diamond in half.

Time to sneak up behind Dirtpock and Succotash and clap your hands real loud and yell POW!

They'd shoot themselves from the dining room table out onto the porch!

Have you ever done that to somebody before? ::MonkeyDevil::

Enjoy your last free days, boys.

Hey Carpe! Your witch is a little behind the times....   ::MonkeyWink::

How about a Santa's Helper?

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Carpe.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Carpe.gif

I'm with you, K2 could be a diamond factory if they had a supply of coal!   ::MonkeyWink::

 :smt049 :smt049 :smt049 :smt049 :smt049

For Natalee's Family.

:smt049 :smt049 :smt049 :smt049 :smt049

Sorry to hear about your doggie, Snoop.
It's good to know that your buddy had an
owner as nice as you and was loved. It doesn't
get much better than that!

Perfect!!! Thanks CBB... going to change it out now.

I'm so happy I got a Thanksgiving turkey wih a bit of 'snap' in his young bones.    ::CowboySmiley::  LOL  Thanks CBB   ::MonkeyKiss::

I was hoping there would be news today ;{    Thanks Tamikosmom for the snips from Beth's book.   Does she mention anything about the call Judd {?} answered in the middle of the night that was from Aruba?

xox

Hi Monkeys! I am right here with you while we all wait together. I have always been here, just not always signed in. I pray for strength for Dave and Beth while they wait, and wonder if maybe they have already been told? But how wishful I am, hoping that Aruba would be decent enough to do that.

Love to you all, and thanks for fighting the good fight and never giving up. Sending Happy Thanksgiving wishes to everyone. I will be anxiously waiting for the news along with all of you.

So good to see you GabbyG.  We'll all wait together.

Good Morning Everyone.

We all fought together and we will all wait together.  We Monkeys are determined.

My dog woke me up too early now I can't sleep.  I can't do anything because others are sleeping and I will wake them up.  All three dogs started running around chasing each other and playing in the house  ::MonkeyEek::

That’s so odd San the same thing happened to me this morning and now I can’t get back to sleep!

I have 4 miniature dachshunds (Romeo, Juliette and the Blues Brothers Jake and Elwood)

They are spoiled rotten! Especially ELWOOD!

What are your furchildren?

I have one Pitbull and two Australian shepherds.

I'm Anxious, so Anxious but I'm going to try to go back to bed for a couple of hours. I wonder if Beth ever gets any sleep?  Okay now that thought made me wake up.  I've got to go back to bed or I will be a zombie all day.  I'll check back in a couple of hours. ~ Lisa

San boy have I been there and done that!  Don't you just love it when you are trying to whisper to your dogs...shhhhh shhhhh quiet and they use their selective hearing and continue whatever they are doing? My grandson always spends Friday nights with me, it is our "date night", plus it is mom and dad's "date night". We have done this since he was 3, and he is 11 now. Often my much loved furbaby Emmy, my lab and house companion, will hear something outside, go to "her window" to check outside, and commence barking with my grandson sleeping in the hidabed in the living room....and there I am, adding to the racket by trying to whisper at her to hush, quiet, etc. etc., and she begins twirling, gets more excited, runs to her window again to show me why she is barking, and the whole process begins again...  ::MonkeyJnBox::    ::piggy::    :smt076    ::MonkeyDevil2::   meanwhile my grandson wakes up long enough to ask me to make Emmy be quiet and go back to sleep. LOL

 ::monkeywine2::

As we wait ....I always goes back and read  ::MonkeyHaHa:: Remind myself of things I may have not thought about for awhile.

As Anna always says -- I know what I know -- and I know what I think I know   ::MonkeyAngel:: (yes Anna -- I'm LOVING this season of Burn Notice)


Sorry for the repost  ::piggy:: but.....

This is an excerpt from the conclusion in Part 6 of the 6 part series In the Face of Evil - May 30, 2005 Parts 1 -5 lead up to the conclusion -- In My Opinion

I personally can not accept any theory that does not include an explanation of the triangulation of the cell phone pings or the corroboration of the cover up that is obvious in the statements. That is WHAT WE KNOW.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.msg293755#msg293755

This has simply been the best plausible sequence of events we have been able to generate, based on the suspects' words in police reports and media interviews, along with witness and investigator's statements.

Here is a brief recap of what the suspects own actions and words have led us to believe.

* 10:00 am - 4 suspects meet at Bubali police station, and meet at the van der Sloot pool thereafter

* 3:00 pm - Paulus makes a visit to the bank, and has 1 hour missing before arriving home

* 5:00 pm - Paulus takes Joran to the Racquet club wtih the gym bag containing evidence, and Joran meets with Koen to make arrangements for the boat - and they do not play tennis.

* 6:00 pm - Paulus makes his second trip to the Racquet Club to retrieve Joran and the gym bag, they then retrieve Miss Holloway's remains.

* 7:25 pm - Joran calls Deepak, triangulation of the cell phone records shows the location near the boat launch

* 8:15 - 8:30 pm - Paulus at home on the computer researching drugs, Joran at the Wyndham casino.

* 10:30 pm - The van der Sloots are aware the Twitty's are en route to Aruba on a privately chartered jet.

* 11:30 pm - Joran, Guido, and Deepak are in discussion in Deepak’s car in a casino parking lot.

* 2:00 am - Deepak, Joran and Guido leave the casino for one hour, Deepak's car is seen at 2:30 am at the van der sloot home .

As we close this series, we point out that others close to the investigation have also arrived at the exact same conclusion.
[/b]


JOSSY MANSUR:

Joran had access to several boats, Mansur said, and could have used one of them to dispose of Natalee's body.

"Whatever happened to her, happened at Joran's apartment or at the beach to the north of the Marriott hotel," Mansur said. "The disposal of her body, we strongly believe, was masterminded by the father, who coached them by the pool at his home and drilled them in what they had to say and which story they had to cling to."

www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/natalee_holloway/11.html



DAVE HOLLOWAY:

I just can't understand that three kids, you know, if they were involved in foul play, could have disposed of Natalee in such a way that we couldn't find her. So that leads me to believe that possibly there's other people involved in the case.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/17/ng.01.html


ART WOOD:

The dramatic new line of investigation revolves around the timeline of May 30, starting about 18 hours after Natalee vanished.

There are several unexplained missing hours during which authorities believe that her body was dumped at sea.

Former U.S. Secret Service agent Art Wood, who spent months on the island investigating the case, told The National Enquirer: "Joran told police that he played tennis with a friend during the evening hours. And the pal backed up his alibi.

"But when I investigated the Racquet Club I found that Joran had never played tennis there that night."

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63342


ART WOOD:

"The reason this case could still be solved is because there are so many people involved in Natalee's disappearance and in the disposal of her body. When somebody talks, they're going to all go down. This is like a house of cards."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

Excuse my manners :oops:

Good morning Monkeys. One day closer  ::piggy::



Justice for Natalee Holloway
Peace for her family and loved ones

Thank you Magnolia, it's good to see you too! Yes, we Monkeys know how to wait don't we? We have the blessing of having each other for strength and companionship during these difficult times. How I wish we could share that with Dave and Beth, and help them during these times that must be so very hard and painful for them. I just can't seem to keep my mind from wandering there, thinking about what they must be going through yet again. My prayers are with them, as always.

Thinking about Beth and Dave made me remember a poem I wrote for them a couple of years ago. With this new possibility looming before us, I thought I would share it again while we wait.


In His Time

Even while I grieve, I know You are in charge...
I know You're the Boss of this show.
I know we are taught that we must wait on You
But have I the strength? I don't know...

I have tried to be patient, though waiting is hard...
I've tried to just leave it to You.
But the way things have gone just haven't been good...
And I constantly see evil anew.

But again I will do what I know You have asked...
And trust in Your power and Your love.
I will fall to my knees to join others in prayer
And pray for strength from above.

But wait! What was that? What do I hear?
Beautiful voices, whispers, and then...
A soft sweet voice clearly says "In His Time"
Like a promise to me, Heaven sent.

Then a glimpse of her face and her smile I see.
She reminds me of all we are taught.
That we must have faith, believe, and hold true…
Believing is never for naught.

Justice is His, and the righteous will win!
This is promised to those who believe...
So although I am tired, weary and worn
I will wait on You Lord, though I grieve.

I will pray in faith for Justice to come...
To be served rightly so, in Your time.
I will pray for patience as I try to hold on,
My prayer will be… "in Your time, not mine".

by GabbyG

Very nice Gabby.

Sharon - thank you for that reminder.  And great to see you, my friend!  ::MonkeyKiss::

Hi Klaas  :smt006

hi, no coffee yet

Good morning Klaas  ::HelloKitty::  Hope you get some coffee soon.  (http://bestsmileys.com/coffee/3.gif)

You must be going through withdrawal

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/coffee.gif)

We already know this.....it is dated today, so here goes..

Holloway answers will come from Aruba

Last Update: 7:44 am  today

Birmingham, Al  (WIAT)  The mystery of Natalee Holloway began on Aruba more than five years ago.  It now looks like any announcement as to tests on a jawbone found on an Aruban beach will also come from the island.

The Dutch Forensic Institute has been testing the bone and the Holloway family has provided Natalee's dental records for comparison.  "I'm happy that it's human. And the initial finding is that it's from a young woman, so maybe we will be able to solve this case. I hope so. But we will wait to see what the findings are," Aruban prosecutor Peter Blanken told CNN.

The prosecutor said a forensic expert in Aruba made the initial determination. He cautioned that a final determination would be made by the Netherlands Forensic Institute in the Hague, but he did say the agency is "testing for a DNA match."

Blanken is back in Aruba.  The Forensic Institute said earlier this week that the announcement of the findings would be left to Aruban authorities.

The bone, which the Dutch-language paper de Telegraff reported was the lower half of the jaw with one molar still intact, was found by tourists last week on a beach in Aruba.

Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway disappeared on a graduation trip to Aruba in 2005. She was last seen leaving a club with Joran van der Sloot.  Although the young Dutchman was questioned several times by Aruban authorities he was never charged.  He is still considered the prime suspect in Natalee's disappearance.

The beach where the jawbone was found is near the location where van der Sloot has told various stories about Natalee's fate....stories he later retracted or denied.

Van der Sloot is currently in prison in Peru charged with the murder of Stephany Flores.  The body of the 21 year old student was found in van der Sloot's Lima hotel room.  Van der Sloot confessed to killing Flores after she found material relating to Natalee on his laptop.  In one of many macabre aspects of the case, Flores' body was found five years to the day of Natalee's disappearance.

Van der Sloot is appealing to get his murder confession thrown out of court claiming coercion and police misconduct.

He's also been indicted by a federal grand jury here in Birmingham charged with wire fraud and extortion.  Prosecutors claim in shook down the Holloway family for information on Natalee's fate but never delivered any information after taking their money.
http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Holloway-answers-will-come-from-Aruba/PKHuMukCyUiNW2n-TP1xHQ.cspx

Thank you GabbyG.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Janet

Magnolia

They have similar "tones" but I think it's the psycho.  I am not sure why it's labeled an interview since "Lewis?" (on his birth certificate?) Daniel Young is just overtalking and not giving the person a chance to answer or think. I'm sure he will go on to say that "Lilly said" or I have "Lilly verify....".

Direct link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_EJAB7xDeg&feature=player_embedded

I remembered something, but maybe not this post.  I found a post here...there obviously was a question being answered, which I have not yet looked for.

Blonde, Here is wreck's question....

GabbyG that is a Beautiful Poem, very heartfelt. I'm going to print it and plastic coat it and put on my mirror so I see it everyday to remind me that I am not in the driver seat and to be patient.  It takes talent to write something like that.  Thanks for sharing!

You're very welcome Janet. It is definitely my pleasure to share it.

Thank you Lisa, for your kind words. I wrote that during one of our down moments/times regarding Natalee, when another hopeful something had gone wrong, and just couldn't stop thinking about how much Dave and Beth must have been hurting. I'm very proud you want to use it, and hope you enjoy it. It's my pleasure to share it.

O/T

Glenda is parsing words again.  There is a well known anthropologist residing in Aruba. He probably made the initial identification.

Luc Alofs, anthropologist, curator of the Historical Museum Aruba

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2009/08/22/ask-the-locals-island-guide-aruba/

This is exactly what I have been looking for.
18 hours after Natalee was reported missing and the black guys at her hotel were accused and a distraction, the van der Sloots were hiding the body in the bay where her jawbone washed up after hurricane Tomas.
Exactly. But who was the boat that helped them?

http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/arubaanse-verkiezingen-platteland-versus-de-stad?quicktabs_1=1

(http://cdn.radionetherlands.nl/data/files/imagecache/must_carry/images/lead/luc%20en%20lydia%20002.JPG)

Gabby

Your words were meant as encouragement for Beth and Dave but ... in regards to some personal issues in my own life ... I was also comforted by the reminder that in all our circumstances our Awesome God in in control.

 :smt060

Janet

+++++++

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 232:  Without hope we are hungry. And on a very deep level, desperate. But no one has to be. What's so amazing is that we can feed each other. We can help each other. We have the power to give resilience to others who are fading. We can nourish each other's spirits and save one another from defeat and despair. Every one of us possesses this power to "love thy neighbor," and we need to use it every chance we get.

According to Nancy Grace's guest anthropologist ... sex, age and race can often be determined with only an observation of a jawbone.

The big question!  Is there a connection to Natalee Holloway?  I will be off the forum for most the day.  However ... I will be anticipating an answer to the big question when I return.

Have a good Sunday all!

Janet

+++++++


NANCY GRACE
Natalee`s Mother Confronts Joran in Prison
Aired November 17, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

NANCY GRACE, HOST: With us right now, Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, Florida Gulf Coast University. She`s joining us from Ft. Myers via Skype. Heather, explain to me again how is it that you can determine that this is not only human but it is a white female young adult?

HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Nancy, the way that we do that, first to determine that it`s female, is we`re going to look at the chin area. And as you can see on this example of a lower jawbone that I`m holding here, in females, right on the midline -- which would be here in my own face -- we tend to have a pointier chin. In males, the chin itself tends to be very broad, where you have two little bumps on either side of that midline.

The other thing that these forensic experts are doing is they`re evaluating the age of the jawbone by looking at something like this, the dental development. Here what we can see is that all teeth form first by the crown, then by the roots. We know how to age somebody by the development of those teeth relative to one another.

We can also tell the ancestry or race (INAUDIBLE) or bumps (INAUDIBLE) on those teeth. So it sounds to me, with the ability of these forensic experts to come out and say that they have a female, that it`s a young adult, and that this person is most likely white or of European ancestry, that they have a jaw that they either have the lower jaw or upper jaw and that it is relatively intact.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/17/ng.01.html

OT

http://twitter.com/dolphvanstapele

Dolphvanstapele
News from Santa Monica. We were very succesfull. Saturday you'll read all about it.Our film about Tula has been raised to a higher level ;-)
5:22 PM Nov 4th via web

http://www.versgeperst.com/lifestyle/71538/tula-scoort-internationaal-contract.html

Tula scores international contract

11/07/2010 1:43 p.m. | LIFESTYLE | Elisa Cake

CURAÇAO - Tula's story has stolen the hearts of American movie cop International Film Distribution Consultants. After films such as Law Abiding Citizen and Book of Eli, the company will now work with the film on freedom fighter Curacao.

The producers of Dolph Stapele and Jeroen Leinders Fisheye Media Productions in Los Angeles last week were making calls on the international representation of the film. Finally they dragged an agreement with IFDC on hold.

Flexible production
Through this contract, they await the distribution of the film soon to be true. Also opens the doors to this agent contract with U.S. film studios which will work smoother.

Local and international actors
The main roles in Tula's film also stars well-known American actors so the film a broad and international audience attracting. Local actors are also not forgotten and will work with the international stars shine on the silver screen. If everything goes according to plan, the 2011 movie into production.

::MonkeyNoNo::


http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24490-atencion-special-pa-aruba-atrobe.html

Comments:

Scirbi pa Aru-camba, November 21, 2010   

DTZ moet per minuut zo'n 20.000 dollar opstrijken bij een uitzending vanuit Aruba, dan gaat de kassa eindelijk rinkelen en zullen ze zich 2X bedenken om iets uit te zenden. Mits ze gaan proberen via andere wegen toch wat te regelen om aan hun nieuws te komen, hen inclusief degene die de grap maakt om zelf een filmpje te maken en deze door te verkopen aan een Amerikaanse nieuwszender, deze flink beboeten. Ik hoop dat ieder die met de Amerikanen in zee gaat hen uitbuit en ons eiland gaat beschermen tegen de grote monster Amerika. Samen moeten we sterk staan voor ons eiland tegen mediaschurken zoals Beth Twitty, Peter de V(r)ies en hun diabolische teams. Het lijk voor hen alsof Nathaly Runaway de enige is die vermist wordt op het eiland.

Google translation:

Scirbi pa Aru Camba, November 21, 2010

DTZ to about $ 20,000 per minute for a pocket broadcast from Aruba, then the cash register ringing and finally they will think of something 2X broadcast. Provided they are going to try a bit by other means to arrange for their news for them including the person who makes a joke to make himself a movie and sell it to an American news channel, which quite fine. I hope that anyone with the Americans at sea is exploiting them and our island will protect America against the big monster. Together we must stand strong for our island to media villains like Beth Twitty, Peter V (r) ies and their diabolical teams. The body for them as if Runaway Nathaly the only one missing on the island.

 ::MonkeyEek::

Oh My!! You'd think if he were an anthropologist, he could pick up a couple of better fitting teeth............. just sayin'.

Great to see you GabbyG!!  ::MonkeyDance:: Yes, we wait together. I'm so pleased to be among all of you Monkeys!  ::MonkeyKiss::

Go to h*ll!   ::MonkeyMad::

and yes, we know there are others missing on the "one happy island!"

I agree, CBB, It's beyond cruel.
It has to be Natalee this time. They're just delaying it to show that they will not be pressured or forced.

Snoopy..my condolences on your loss. That's the downside of pet ownership that their years are shorter than ours.

oops, sorry my 'BOLD' didn't work= last two sentences in last Eng. version.

READING BETWEEN THE LIES - (LINES)

From Amigoe .com    

‘Jawbone belongs to a young female’
19 Nov, 2010, 13:25 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD — The partial jawbone found by American tourists on the beach near the Phoenix Hotel last week Friday, belongs to a young female. At any rate, that’s what American media are saying,(Redirect, Redirect) who base this on comments from field officer Peter Blanken. He is currently in the Netherlands and was (Naturally) not available for comment this morning.

Meanwhile, the Public Prosecutor (OM) here does not wish to comment on the case and says one will wait for the result (Lie being concocted) from the Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI). (Liar that is a comment) Whether Blanken had indeed told the American media that it regarded a jawbone of a young female, solicitor general Taco Stein could not ‘confirm or deny’ this morning. “As I have not spoken to him yet, I do not know (Which lie we are going with) what he did or did not say. (Back Peddle, Back Peddle) Our viewpoint remains that we wait for the result from NFI, (So they can cover it up “Officially”) ” Stein said before the Amigoe.

It is unknown yet when the research from the Forensic Institute will be completed. However, the solicitor general does know that no result will be available today anyhow. (Because we need more time to concoct the lie and get everyone on the same page) “We will probably know more next week. (After we rehearse it) ” Stein says that based on the result, the OM will ‘consider’ what will be made known to the media and that any relatives will be informed (of their lies) first. “You can imagine the Holloway-family is having a hard time now. (although, we here in Aruba really don’t care about that) ” Stein did not wish to anticipate of which consequences a positive identification could have for the investigation into the case surrounding Natalee Holloway. (Because it is too hard for an Aruban to face Reality) Nevertheless, he says one has meanwhile searched the location where the jawbone had washed ashore. (ONE being the optimum word – Probably DOMPIG) This investigation had not yielded anything, (Because he’s too stupid to know how to search) according to Stein.
For that matter, it is still not certain whether one could remove sufficient DNA from the jawbone for positive identification. (So let’s not hold the Hague accountable) “We will have to wait what the experts say, but the bone had been in the seawater for a long time. (Mistakes Happpen)(Cover up) ” The DNA material from the jawbone will be compared with the DNA profiles from Natalee’s parents. Dental data from Natalee is supposedly sent from the United States to the Netherlands for comparison as well. The American teenager disappeared without a trace in 2005 after spending an evening out at Carlos and Charlies. Joran van der Sloot (The Face Of Aruba) was the last person she was seen with. Joran is meanwhile on remand in the Castro Castro prison in Peru. (So we can’t do anything anyway) He is suspected of murdering the Peruvian student Stephany Flores last May. (He is fine. Living like a King)

Edit to change red color to blue color per Forum Rule:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8844.msg1251553#msg125155
12. Please don't use colors in your posts.  We like to leave the colors for the MODERATORS so their posts when posting as a MODERATOR can easily be seen.  If you must highlight you may use BOLD, ITALIC or if you really need a color use blue or green.  Stay away from RED and MAROON especially as those are normally used by Moderators and Admin.

Beth Holloway on Natalee Holloway Missing in Aruba: “There is no good answer, whether it is Natalee or whether it isn’t. But no answer at all is the most unbearable”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/11/21/beth-holloway-on-natalee-holloway-missing-in-aruba-there-is-no-good-answer-whether-it-is-natalee-or-whether-it-isnt-but-no-answer-at-all-is-the-most-unbearable/

http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=19964
True house music @ Confession 13nov'10
(http://www.24ora.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=202&id=19964&Itemid=63)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8719.msg1260897#msg1260897
Aitana Cardoso (far right in the picture) just turned 17.  She's a student (senior iirc) at the International School of Aruba.

http://komamodels.com/models/ko-girls/aitana-cardoso.html

http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/faq/index.html

What is the legal drinking/gambling age?
The legal age for both drinking and gambling is 18 years. It is not, however, widely enforced. You will not usually be "carded".

Thanks Red!   ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyCool::

Wow, that makes three of us!  I was up at 6, which is unheard of for me, even on a work day!  LOL  I too have 4 dachsunds!    I pray all these coincidences mean something!  Lord please let it be Nat and just ONCE let LE do the right thing!

Too add to the coincidence.  One of mine is named Jake too!  :)

We had only planned the first 2 the Blues Brothers were a Christmas morning surprize! Couldn't part with them if I tried. They are so funny! I ususally say I have a 40 lb. dog with 16 legs! Having a herd is great fun! ::MonkeyDance::

BBM

Bizarre statement.  Glad it's human?  Who's happy about finding a human bone??? The only way I'd be be happy about that is IF it WAS Nat's so she can be brought home to rest!  But it IS Aruba    :roll:

We're going to get in time out for being O/T, but while waiting for news, it's tough.  One of mine was a rescue name Peanut, one was a baby of 2 of them, his name is BooBoo (he he),  Daisy, my female and the spoiled one and Jake was for my daughter.  And yes they are fun and cuddly, with each of there own personalitIies! 

I've been here from the beginning and feel like I know everybody personally and Thank God, if nothing else good comes out of this damn case, SM has been a blessing to me and so many missing people.  Joran could only dream of having so many and such great friends and all thanks to dips&t himself!  I really hope he rots in that cell in Peru!

I know it seems silly, but and maybe after all this time, I'm finally losing it, but I really do find it odd these little coincidences and truly hope they MEAN something for the case.  PRAYING for Beth and Dave!   ARUBA MAY GOD HELP YOU, DO THE RIGHT THING JUST FOR ONCE! PLEASE!!!!!

Hey CBB, Hiiii! It's great to see you! Yes, here we all are again, one more time. If not this time then perhaps the next, or the next, but sooner or later it's gonna be THE time, and we will get to see Natalee come home. I totally believe that.

 ::MonkeyNoNo:: Man this wait is hard hard hard.  Beth is right it it is the Not Knowing that kills you.  I'm so worried because this is following the same pattern of every road we've been down before.  I've been wrong before and please let it be now!

It is so hard to hang in there!  ::MonkeyJustice:: ::MonkeyJustice:: ::MonkeyJustice::

I am Praying! I'm going back to Gabby's Poem!

I believe that too, Gabby!! Many of us have a "feeling" about this time. I just can't figure out if the feeling is because it is Natalee's jaw, or because they will finally admit it's Natalee's remains.

I think they've got her remains anyway and can give her back anytime they choose, JMO.

Amen to that!  And even if we don't see it in our lifetime.  God will take care of him/them and we know she's already being taken care of, sitting by the throne, as she sit's with all the other lil children who have met such horrible fate's.  That, I DO take comfort in!

Hi CBB! Left you a note in your avi thread ;)

EXCELLENT POST!!

Beth is a lady that has grown in stature throughout this ordeal. They thought they could sweep her under the rug, but she has taught them through actions that they are contending with something they can't understand or predict. They are dealing with a Mother who has lost her child. Her focus has never drifted and her eyes remain set on the goal: to find Natalee and bring her home. When she says she will be on that mission until her death, they finally believe that's probable. They finally can comprehend that the slow death of their island may be on a faster track than Beth is.

I think they "threw her a bone" in their own interest, much like someone would do if confronted by an attacking dog. I wonder if they realize that the dog goes for the bone, but comes back looking not only to persue again, but to get more of the reward it was offerred before.

Hey Tink!!  ::MonkeyDance:: I'll go check!  ::MonkeyWink::

The Gottenboes had a boat. A boat outing was documented in Sander G's statement. I believe the boys Koen and Sander may be cousins with Joran. Not sure if that was ever proven. But many who believe in a sea burial believe this boat was involved.  Much more involved in this story. yYou can probably search gottenboes boat here at SM and get more info (if I spelled their name right :oops:)

Steve Croes had access to a boat.

Lorenzo Van Rijn had access to a boat but I'm not sure it's ever been proven that he even knows Joran.

Arends or Arendz I believe are associated with race boats -- and Joran's friend.

And I think there is a 'police' force unit that has boats.

Many boats. Island living.

 ::HelloKitty:: ::HelloKitty::

And here we are again  ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: I hope this is 'the' time that Natalee's family gets a small piece of relief :(

Smooches  ::MonkeyKiss::

Hi, Sharon.

Even the Persistence had help from a local 28 ft. boat, PREDATOR.....so many boats & willing helpers.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371156;topicseen#msg371156

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.    ::MonkeyShocked::

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

I can't help checking about 4 times a day even on the weekend, lol!  My mind tells me we will find out Wednesday night or even Thursday or Friday but my heart keeps looking!

Oh, good grief!  That's the very worst thing they could do but why am I not surprised???  Makes me furious even if this is not Natalee, it's Somebody!

Anna, you make perfect sense, as usual!  I would think it would be in there best interest to  admit it was him, give Nat back and let it go in the past.  He's going to rot in Peru either way.  And as for the rest of those in the conspiracy, God can take care of them! Perfect chance for them to move on.   It's a win/win for everybody!  MOO

It amazes me that these people are familiar with Nat's case, but continue to book trips there, with so many other islands to go to.  I mean, they are willing to risk it????  ::MonkeyShocked::

My thoughts, exactly, Anna.  I was also wondering how much 'heavy equipment' they have now after 5 plus years.  Seems I recall they had a shortage after Natalee vanished. 

We've found that many acquaintances have gone recently or their children honeymooned there.  I don't get it, either.  I think one group was there when Tomas hit.  We'll see them in a couple of weeks at a dinner.  I'll have to ask about it, then. 

Aah yes, but the problem in admitting that equals more than a few bones that wash ashore and it won’t be left to the past.  They will stand wide open in exposure for the corruption and cover up Starting with Van der Stratten.
This is a Big Mess and they don’t know how to clean it up and do damage control so they will continue to deny it.
They just don’t understand that the Truth will prevail.

I wonder how Van der Stratten is handling this news. He and Anita must weigh about 98lbs wet now!
::MonkeyDevil::

Good point!  Wishful thinking on mine!  ::monkeywine2::

I doubt it!    ::MonkeyHaHa::

At the time, right after the disappearance, suspicion of boats was an afterthought. And I remember talk of the DJ who took his boat out around the time too that matched a cell phone call.
Maybe even the boat owner didn't know Joran and Paulus' plan to dump the body, maybe they thought they were dumping stolen goods, or something else. I'm sure their story was elaborate.
Like the brother that helped Drew Peterson move that giant box... he was an eyewitness but didn't even know it.

Gabby that was beautiful and I really appreciate you sharing it with us.  I don't post often but I am here each and everyday reading and praying for justice for all those who have been wronged.  I believe that if it doesn't come on Earth it will come in Heaven.  My prayers to all those who have been hurt or who are hurting and God bless you all for keeping us up to date in addition to all the wonderful things you do for those in need.  I have the greatest respect for all of you and thank you from the bottom of my heart!

 ::HelloKitty::

Happy Turkey week to you  ::MonkeyKiss::

Yes, so many boats available.  :(

I think there could have been a sizable cage involved -- or at least a body.

It would be difficult for the accomplices to not know.

In my opinion only.

There was damage reported on the Gottenboes boat a few days after Natalee went missing -- right around the time the G's sold it to the 'Octopus' guy. iirc.

No kidding!!!    ::MonkeyJnBox::

I found this comment interesting.  Is the spin doctoring beginning?

arubamikey  Post subject: Re: Jaw bone found at the PhoenixPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:36 pm
 
It could be from the newlywed who went on a kayak with her husband in the early 1990's while on their honeymoon, and neither was ever seen again.

You make a lot of sense, Anna-as always!!!!

Lol-I'd like to see Anita weigh 98 lbs!!  Ain't ever gonna happen!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

They don't seem to have any capacity regulations for over capacity either.  Posted last night Club Zissles

(http://c0013554.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_37890f9)

http://plixi.com/p/58233081

Yeah, I had similar thoughts...will have to do some digging on that.   ::MonkeyWink::

Why aren't they listed with the others missing in/on Aruba> ?

Sharon!! You are freaking me out!
Who is Octopus guy?

Well I figure she's been "Sweatin in her Moldies" ::MonkeyDance::
Yes, what you say makes the most sense but, you are talking about ARUBA here and They just don't get it, they are afraid of the truth because the corruption went high on the totem pole. It only started with Joran and the Kalpoes.  Now with Paulus dead and Joran in Peru they are left holding the bag! Don't forget they still answer to the Neitherlands!

PS
I thought you meant Paul Allen of Microsoft who owns Octopus, the biggest yacht in the world. But you are talking about the snorkel boat Octopus. And those guys would know the frequented waters by tourists and where to hide a body in a trap too!!! Makes perfect sense!!!
And it could have been a combo, they knew the location and the other boat delivered the goods. hmmmm.

At airport waiting to board.

If they know the results and it's not Natalee but they are waiting to give the results HOW CRUEL IS THAT?

EXACTLY!!! Have a safe flight home.

Very Cruel....either yes or no would be a simple answer.

I'm trying not to get too excited about this find. Simply because this could be someone never reported missing and we all know how well Aruba keeps records.

It could be someone from the 70's, 80's or early 90's and those are records and info we have never ever seen. We basically have found from the mid 90's to the present. That's all.

People have been going missing there for hundreds years and they use the ocean to dump 'em.

Maybe it's Natalee - maybe it's not. I hope it is, but I'm not getting my hopes up again.

Gesterkamp

http://www.octopusaruba.com/

Too cruel, Taco Stein did say that the family would be notified first so I do have a sliver of hope that if it's not her...they have been notified.

But it's a itsy bitsy tee niny tiny sliver...

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

not the biggest yacht in the world - that's owned by Russian oil magnet Roman Abramovich - who used to own the Ecstasea. Which was off shore when Natalee was murdered.

here it is - the Eclipse.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/16/roman-abramovichs-eclipse_n_540947.html

I remembered the name, but knew I would spell it wrong. ::MonkeyDevil::

In the US we are literally educated and raised to believe “Tell the Truth and the Truth will Set you Free”.  There are poles that indicate that more Americans are basically honest and truthful than not.  We have standards of expectation in this country that far exceed any expectations in places such as ARUBA.

I am NOT saying we don’t lie here, I’m NOT saying we don’t have crime or corruption.

I AM saying that the “AVERAGE AMERICAN CITIZEN IS HONEST and HELD TO A HIGH REGARD OF HONESTY by other American Citizens”.

You ask someone a question in America and we expect them to tell the truth, we expect them to do the right thing.  We don’t question that unless we know that they are flat out lying to us and even then we are skeptical of the lie not necessarily the person.

It is not like that all over the world and that is why we need to be cautious when traveling. 

We live in a cocoon and that is why some cannot understand the level of corruption in this case or why they won’t just come clean and give Natalee back to us!

JMHO (case in point – even in our comments we say JMHO My Honest Opinion) why because of the high regard of honesty we hold so dear.

I’m Proud to be an American and I’m proud to stand and DEMAND Justice for NATALEE!
 ::monkeywine2:: ::MonkeyJustice::

Wasn't Peter Devries (2nd part) supposed to air today?

If you're out there EURobert or Jo-Ann could you let us know please.

Klaas, if they know, it's just too cruel.  Sadistic, if you ask me!!!

Have a good flight Klaas.

Thanks to all the Mod's who so ably covered for Klaas, so she could have a bit of time away.    ::MonkeyCheer4::

Klass took a nap and called it a vacation! ::MonkeyHaHa::  I sure hope she had a good nap! ::MonkeyAngel::

I think they have both been shown (the ones with Beth), one on Oct 31 and the other on Nov 7.

He may have another show airing tonight, but not about this case that I'm aware of.

Not sure if this has been posted or not.

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/nieuws/gevonden-onderkaak-van-jonge-vrouw/

Google translation:

(http://www.peterrdevries.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/natalee-holloway-hoofd.jpg)

Friday, November 19, 2010, 11:32 hours

News

"Found mandible of young woman"


(http://www.peterrdevries.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/natalee-klein.jpg)
Natalee Holloway
The lower jaw last week on the beach in Aruba was found, would be an Aruban prosecutor indeed a young woman. U.S. media reported Friday that, based on research first. A surprising twist, but it's still too early to draw conclusions from them. We await the outcome of the DNA research, which will take several weeks. Only then can be said with certainty whether the remains belong to Natalee Holloway.

The jaw was found Friday by a few tourists on the beach near the Phoenix Hotel, not far from the Bubali Plas. The tourists took their find to the reception, a hotel employee when the police warned. The investigation into the origin of the jaw is carried out by the Dutch Forensic Institute.

Marking time
Peter: "As long as there is no official confirmation of the NFI or Justice, I remain reserved. Beth Holloway is still in a wait and see situation. We have seen too often claimed that there was something of Natalee Holloway found, but every time afterwards proved to be untrue. That was always very disappointing, so we're now marking time. "

Thanks texasmom - sorry about that.

This says the DNA will take several weeks.

What about the dental impressions?  Rob reckons they will be able to tell by that.

The mandible should have been sent to Quantico. It would all be known by now and there wouldn't be people wondering one way or the other if an announcement ever occurs.

I think, in the back of my mind - that the NFI can't even figure out who it's from.

I have followed this only superficially, and don't know all of the characters as most of you do--just Natalee and Joran, the Kalpoes and Joran's father.  Also, of course Stephany Flores.  I'm just intruding here to say that I agree with what Mark Klaas said on NG a few nights ago--"Beth Holloway fears nothing."  Very few people have the courage she has had and continues to this day to demand the truth.  I admire her a lot.  I think Natalee would be very proud.

Good night Monkeys,
I have a question regarding the jaw found in Aruba. I know that it is a tooth attached to the jaw  but my questions is:....why the jay is detaches with the skull? with weather conditions and time, Will the tooth should fall out before the jaw detaches to the skull?

No problem at all, can!

I read that too, but I hope to goodness it doesn't take several weeks.   ::MonkeyWaa::

Thanks Rob.  If only!

Let's take a second -

How is odontology used to solve crimes? - bite marks. This explains how alignment is used to pin point specific tooth features.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKeEbVLZNWc

3-D presentation of tooth alignment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT3Kwy9P7lE&feature=related

Forensic Dentistry: World Trade Center to Ted Bundy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxF88-i-iNk&feature=related

Yes, Babybear I agree - Natalee would be very proud of her Mom.

The Monkeys are very proud of Beth too!

Good night cecilita.  Sorry, I can't answer your question.

Absolutely!   ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyHeart:: ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Me too!  But, if it does take several weeks, I hope they keep Natalee's family informed.

In order to possible preform DNA testing on a single tooth - you first need to remove the tooth from the jaw bone. Then drill the center of the tooth to extract the DNA contained in the pulp of the remaining root.

There is usually a small portion remaining there - even after thousands of years. Teeth are enamel and lest for thousands of years.

However, with a single tooth - DNA replication may be need to CONFIRM a TEST. This is the process of using the nuclear DNA and copying the letter sequence to preform repeated tests to confirm the original results.

It does take some time to replicate the DNA. However, an initial test would confirm if they are on the right track. In a sense, if the initial tests did not reveal a match - that could occur due to cross contamination or simply because it is not a match. That's why repeated tests are completed. In order to do repeated test - you need something to accomplish this feat and you need more DNA - so replication is then used.

If you use the control sample - meaning the DNA directly from the tooth for the initial test - without replication - you risk not having anything to confirm in case of a positive match. So, again, replication is DONE first.

GEEZ LOUISE ROB - I think you could have flown to the Hague, Identified the mandible, Made the Announcement and returned home by now!  What is their problem???

yeppers!

I should add - since Beth's DNA is on hand from the test on June 12th 2005, a mitochondrial DNA test would confirm it is Natalee rather quickly.

In the event there is no mitochondrial DNA comparison - replication is essential. This would be used to compare to a tooth brush or hair brush - or even clothing with Touch DNA comparison using skin cells.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from every mother to every child.

So, once again, it is known through mitochondrial DNA, dental overlay using electronic records of the jaw bone, and any cast Dave sent to Holland. I am sure the results are known by now.

I heard Dr. Baden say that it's difficult for the jaw to become seperated so that the lower half is disjointed from the upper. It made me wonder if the separation was from an injury sustained at the time of death. Stephany's and Joran's encounter came to mind.

Rob? You understand the testing process far better than I do. Thank you for sharing the information with us.  ::MonkeyWink::

I'm trying to figure out why Dr. Baden was so adament that they knew by now if it was from Natalee or not. Any ideas? Thanks!  ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks Rob for your fine explanation.

Think you are saying that in Natalee's case, they already have the DNA replication, and it is only a matter of comparing that with the results of the DNA found in the tooth?

Isn't it amazing that DNA can remain in a tooth for so many years. 

to add.  Thus, since they are testing against Beth's DNA - and I expect the family made sure they got samples of Natalee's DNA in '05 as well, the problem of using up all the DNA in the tooth, would not be an issue here?

CBB - I have had the same horrible thought.

see, that's why they would do a replication technique. Just one tooth. It's not like they have a jaw full of teeth to test over and over.

Replication takes time - you need the sample from the tooth and then the time it takes to produce more DNA -

In nature - the DNA "unzips" it's Helix and then is joined by new DNA called Polymerase III. These are encoded with the leading strand to the lagging strand.

This all then happens with RNA Pimase and Primer. In a lab this process is recreated. This is how replication occurs. That sample is then tested against the control sample, the tooth root DNA and any samples from Beth and previously from Natalee's clothes, hair brush, tooth brush, blood samples.. etc..

it takes some time to accomplish this, but it would be done as a last step as a final confirmation after mitochondrial DNA, denatl over-lays and cast comparisons. It would be a final 100% confirmation.

Any of those initial processes would lead the investigation to conclude it is Natalee or not, but in the event it is - and those first steps are confirmed - the final tests would be DNA to the (possible) 600th letter. That would be proof without a doubt. A 1 quadrillion % lock.

...or the separation was after her dead. If her skull was severe damaged maybe the aruban authorities separated the jaw from the skull to cover any kind of bad injury in her crane. In Stephany case we know that he used his elbow to hurt Stephany on her nose, maybe her upper jaw was detroyed.... Soon we will know the truth....

can -  we don't know for a fact that they are testing against Beth's 05 sample. I just made the point that it's on file. It would be a natural starting point since it's in a computer data base somewhere.

Yes he did but which family?  Anita and K2 so they can get out of dodge and cover?  Would not put it past Aruba to protect their own .

Right, and really how would Taco Stein have any idea what is going on...he is long removed.  Total airhead...he is just speculating.