Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: San on November 20, 2010, 07:34:34 AM



Title: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 - 11/26/10
Post by: San on November 20, 2010, 07:34:34 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Natalee-Home.gif)


Creation by: CBB

Scared Monkeys.com: Natalee Holloway
http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/natalee-holloway/


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 12:55:42 AM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/moderator%20pics/MonkeySignal.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:56:32 AM
Thanks Klaas!  I love that one!   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: islandmonkey on November 23, 2010, 12:57:53 AM
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg246/chrysti756/cross-1.jpg)












 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 12:58:40 AM
Present and accounted for! Justice to all missing, deceased and exploited adults and children. This is what Scared Monkeys do!

Haven't been on 1st page in a cage changeover for years! ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:58:47 AM
That is so beautiful, thanks islandmonkey!   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:59:38 AM
Present and accounted for! Justice to all missing, deceased and exploited adults and children. This is what Scared Monkeys do!

Haven't been on 1st page in a cage changeover for years! ::MonkeyDance::

I'm so glad you're here tonight IBE!   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 01:10:17 AM
Whew!  That was scary!   ::MonkeyWaa::

Glad we're back!   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 01:12:27 AM
Front page was down too!  Not for long though.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 01:12:30 AM
Thanks TM I am glad to be here more ways than one! Justice for Natalee and Stephany and all those that need it! Good night. See you later today! or tomorrow depending where you are.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 01:15:53 AM
Front page was down too!  Not for long though.   ::MonkeyCool::

Gee, I thought it was my dial up! Going to try to get some sleep but will be hard. I have tears and at the same time wish to ride shot gun which probably isn't right but sure feels good.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 01:17:06 AM
Nite IBE - I'm not far behind.  Tomorrow will be a busy day and hopefully finally some small resolution for Beth and Dave.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 01:19:52 AM
Thanks TM I am glad to be here more ways than one! Justice for Natalee and Stephany and all those that need it! Good night. See you later today! or tomorrow depending where you are.

Good night IBE!  See you later!   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: islandmonkey on November 23, 2010, 01:21:26 AM
That is so beautiful, thanks islandmonkey!   ::MonkeyKiss::

Thank you~it wasn't the one I was looking for, but it still has a special message .....that is our Island Cross on the Beach and she used to come here and babysit in the summer with a family from Alabama, just across the street so everyone tonight is holding their breath and saying a prayer.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 01:21:47 AM
Thanks Klaas.  ::MonkeyAngel::Sorry, can't seem to let go. Sometimes I sense we are going to have an earthquake. Sometimes true, sometimes not. Have the same same sense tonight about Tuesday. Will play electronic jigsaws till tired and hope for the Truth whenever.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 01:24:13 AM
Video from CBS42 is up.  I think this is the one Magnolia told us she heard earlier.

http://www.cbs42.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=24122@wiat.web.entriq.net&navCatId=3


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: billb's daughter on November 23, 2010, 01:26:58 AM
so good to see so many Monkeys and new Monkey posters here all in support for Justice for Natalee..... ::MonkeyAngel::
I do believe this is it and Natalee is coming home! And if that is the case...Let's Honor Natalee and  pray for Natalee, Beth, Dave, Jug, and family... ::MonkeyAngel::

FWIW...I will spend the next 5 + years dogging aruba, urine, k2, anitass, glend ho......disinfo crew, persistence..guildo..gottenbergs...rudy......steve croes......van de statten.....spelling may be off.......hope you get my drift.....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nana29 on November 23, 2010, 01:36:51 AM
so good to see so many Monkeys and new Monkey posters here all in support for Justice for Natalee..... ::MonkeyAngel::
I do believe this is it and Natalee is coming home! And if that is the case...Let's Honor Natalee and  pray for Natalee, Beth, Dave, Jug, and family... ::MonkeyAngel::

FWIW...I will spend the next 5 + years dogging aruba, urine, k2, anitass, glend ho......disinfo crew, persistence..guildo..gottenbergs...rudy......steve croes......van de statten.....spelling may be off.......hope you get my drift.....


I feel as a newer monkey, I am more comfortable (for the most part) lurking here. I have to say though, I am blown away at the sheer power of love that comes through your posts!  Trying to think of words to describe, and love is the best, I think. I will continue to be here with my support and prayers. 
I have to work in a few hours, so I will be heading to bed. I will be praying for an answer soon...thank you, for all you do and have done for Natalee...she deserves no less.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nana29 on November 23, 2010, 01:43:09 AM
I forgot to add, abig thank you for allowing me to be a part of this.   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 02:12:05 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Natalee-Home.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:17:10 AM
Beautiful CBB!  Thank you!   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 02:27:57 AM
Thanks, TM. Can you believe it? Dedicating this thread to finding Natalee may actually be fruitful this time??


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:31:49 AM
I don't think there's really anything new in this article, but I couldn't tell that without typing it out and translating it so I figured I should go ahead and post it.

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/11222010_Bondia_02a-1.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

advocate general taco stein is ‘basha bow’ on foutnan haci the fayonan co owing to deal the caso holloway, ministerio publico will not ripiti one of two times while cu nothing owing to leave still confirma for of the netherlands of the bone

oranjestad- the foutnan cu ministerio publico owing to haci in caso of natalee holloway will not wordo ripiti, “e damage there we do not haci for one of two bes” advocate general taco stein owing to declara saturday ultimo during one session of question in one simposio on privacidad of person, y freedom of publicacion. confronta cu the question cu pakico owing to deal the caso of natalee holloway various of all another caso anterior, stein owing to admiti cu ministerio publico owing to haci foutnan cu not will wordo haci more. among they, the form con they owing to atende cu prensa internacional y another asuntonan.

the matutino here owing to confronta stein cu the question pakico have the impresion cu owing to crea one period “pre” y “post” holloway mirando cu owing to work the caso here various cu another casonan. in caso holloway enves of preteha privacidad of person as cu is the caso ordinarily, owing to cuminsa employ nombernan completo of tanto sospechoso because; victimanan siendo cu this do not nothing accustomed in sistema of corte dutch, y consecuentemente of aruba also.

stein owing to show cu mirando con prensa of merca y another part of world owing to cuminsa deal the caso here cu all atencion y papiaabiertamente of the nombernan as cu they're custumbra at merca, not had sense of employ inicialnan as jvds or b. t. already cu everybody was know cu was talk of beth twitty y joran vd sloot. while cu stein at owing to indica cu they owing to sucumbi for presion mericano, is the scenario not conoci here owing to place cu they owing to haci thing they owing to haci.

thing cu stein owing to sigura good morning aruba the instant there is cu if dado caso come one caso similar style holloway, they will “no deal the casi here mescos”. the aberration there we do not haci two biaha” stein owing to sigura the matutino here.

for thing is the caso of tratamento of prensa mericano various on esun of aruba, stein owing to sigura cu this do not the caso. berdad have one crew of filmacion of prensa mericano n aruba cu is buscando informacion but same cu they owing to tell end, they do not give nothing till hour cu have confirmacion at the netherlands of cu wesonan cu owing to wordo send recientemente, stay confirma or not cu is of a muher y posiblemente natalee holloway, the lady mericano cu owing to lose at aruba at may of 2005.

while cu everybody is believe cu is fiscal parent peter blanken at the netherlands owing to tell prensa mericana cu “e kaak is of one lady hoben’ that do not exactly thing owing to happen. via via, owing to come compronde cu blanken his expresionnan owing to wordo saca for of contexto y owing to let slek cu is “blanken owing to declara cu the wesonan achieve is of one kaak procedente of one lady hoben’ never blanden owing to declara this directamente at prensa mericano according stein. “mi owing to tell y is stop on cu adieu cu nado not come fast, we not can declara nada” stein owing to digura the matutino here saturday morning.

all the time vocero of ministerio publico owing to indica at the matutino here diabierna cu so cu have informacion new, will this leave at cla, but cu not can tell nothing adieu. if dado caso come informacion in end of week the will owing to vocifera this also. “no is so cu ministerio publico is close in end of week for informacion” the vocero owing to let know at the matutino here. but till cu yesterday tardi, not had nothing of informacion new. come across


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:34:03 AM
Thanks, TM. Can you believe it? Dedicating this thread to finding Natalee may actually be fruitful this time??

I've been up and down about that today, but I'm still hoping!   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:36:12 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/08142009_StMaarten_TacoStein_HansMo.jpg)

August 2009

Taco Stein and Hans Mos


Don't you know Hans Mos is so glad he took his purse and got outta dodge!   ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on November 23, 2010, 02:43:42 AM
Beautiful, CBB.  And TM always starts/ends the threads with the best pics.  Hopefully tomorrow Natalee's family will get some real answers (and not via MSM).


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:48:12 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/06212010_PeopleMagazine_Beth2.jpg)

Love and strength to Beth,
and all of Natalee's loved ones!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:55:05 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_kjjkik_1-1.jpg)

We'll be here for each tomorrow,
as we were today...
for as long as it takes.

We won't give up on you, Natalee!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 02:59:19 AM
Hans Mos, that chuckle head! How could we forget him?

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/hanslobster.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 03:05:24 AM
That's beautiful, TM!

Sleuth I can't help but hope that tomorrow will be the day, the first day since Natalee went missing, that things go Beth's way. I think it's a real testament to how horribly wrong the events in this case are when the day you get proof that your daughter is dead, it's in any way an accomplishment.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

God Bless Natalee's Parents! My prayer tonight is for Beth, Matthew and Dave. I pray that they will be comforted in their grief and that God will give them peace in whatever is to follow.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 03:07:34 AM
Hans Mos, that chuckle head! How could we forget him?

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/hanslobster.jpg)

Oh, I will never forget him! There was a time when I believed him and he gave me hope for honesty. Boy, what a shmuck I was!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 03:36:45 AM
I definitely never forget every name and face associated with Natalee`s case.

The ones that have done dastardly deeds know they will burn in hell.

It`s the price you pay for selling your soul.

I wonder if Aruba will add any new ones to the mix, tomorrow?

I sure hope not. I don`t know about everyone else... but I have another 20 to 30 years worth of a can-o-whoopass left. If Aruba wants more, I will keep getting up day after day... just like the sun and moon. It`s nothing but a thang, really. I will always have time for Natalee in my day planner.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 03:53:36 AM
San.......is it okay if we can take CBB's creation on pg. 1 and put it on the opening post? While we await news....it would be appropriate for the beginning of this thread.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 04:35:32 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/22/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 05:02:10 AM
San.......is it okay if we can take CBB's creation on pg. 1 and put it on the opening post? While we await news....it would be appropriate for the beginning of this thread.

I think that's a good idea Nut.  Go for it.  You are up early too.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 05:20:48 AM
CBS42 Birmingham just had the report...they had Jossy on the phone.  He said
that Hurricane Tomas was powerful enough to completely reverse the currents
in the ocean.  Instead of taking things out to sea, it washed things into shore.

Then Tim Miller was on by phone.  He said that this bone probably came from one of his previously located 141 targets and the strong current let some of the small bones escape the container.  He said by following the currents they can narrow the targets down to about 50 instead of 141 and locate the one  holding the rest of the remains.  He said that they have a boat in Trinadad on standby ready to go and retrieve the targets and they hope to have all of Natalee's remains home by Christmas.  He said the search will begin in less than two weeks.

Tim Miller said that he has been in constant contact with Dave and Dave is
cautiously optimistic.

I copied Magnolia's post from a previous thread.  I am to the point that I can't stand Tim Miller anymore.  He is a media hog and it's not always about Tim Miller.  I don't trust him anymore and I think he is FOS.  They already know where Natalee is.  Someone cut a deal and they are making it look like they just found her.  JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 05:23:32 AM
What's the matter Tim you can't mention Natalee's mother Beth.  Because she is the reason we are all here now.  Beth's visit to Peru made this happen.  Tim is pissed at her for ruining his plans.  I am going to shut up because I'm starting to get mad.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 05:29:21 AM
Well sumpin ain't right I'll tell ya that.  All of a sudden a search is being put in play.  Got a boat just waiting......oh and prolly find her clothes too.   Have her home by Christmas..............

If they find her in one of those 141 other targets.............(seriously shaking head)

I believe with all my heart they had her 2 years ago.


I copied Snoopy's post from the previous thread too and I'm bolding every word she said because she is right.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 05:53:49 AM
San.......is it okay if we can take CBB's creation on pg. 1 and put it on the opening post? While we await news....it would be appropriate for the beginning of this thread.

I think that's a good idea Nut.  Go for it.  You are up early too.

K.....ty. Yes.....been up since 3:30.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 06:03:11 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkthy on November 23, 2010, 06:54:36 AM
I don't see a clip of the interview on their site but it's being aired on the local station.  Here is the link.  Perhaps they do not post it or they wait.  Hallie Jackson stated to us last night that they may be coming back after the jaw bone's DNA results are announced to get a post-interview.  Could be tonight.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/index.html

Channel 3 Eye Witness News (CT)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkthy on November 23, 2010, 07:00:18 AM
I am praying so hard that the Holloway family gets some answers today.  They are in the worst possible situation not knowing where Natalee is.  If the jaw bone's DNA matches Natalee's, then this family can know that she is with the angels and that may ease some of the pain.  It's hard for me to peek in here from work but I will try very hard to check for updates all day. 
:::::praying:::::::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 07:07:05 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 07:10:07 AM

I copied Magnolia's post from a previous thread.  I am to the point that I can't stand Tim Miller anymore.  He is a media hog and it's not always about Tim Miller.  I don't trust him anymore and I think he is FOS.  They already know where Natalee is.  Someone cut a deal and they are making it look like they just found her.  JMO
[/quote]


I reached that point a long time ago.I feel ya!!! I lost it for him when the trap was found,a cry for donations, then a sudden departure before mine was ever cashed... ::MonkeyMad::


Edited to correct my typo = San


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 07:14:54 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

Tim was a hero to many.  He gave people hope.  He crossed the line once he bashed Beth.  The evil came out in him that night and he can never take it back because we all heard him.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 07:18:42 AM
I am praying so hard that the Holloway family gets some answers today.  They are in the worst possible situation not knowing where Natalee is.  If the jaw bone's DNA matches Natalee's, then this family can know that she is with the angels and that may ease some of the pain.  It's hard for me to peek in here from work but I will try very hard to check for updates all day. 
:::::praying:::::::

I agree.  It's the not knowing that is driving everyone in this case.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 07:21:23 AM


Quote
I copied Magnolia's post from a previous thread.  I am to the point that I can't stand Tim Miller anymore.  He is a media hog and it's not always about Tim Miller.  I don't trust him anymore and I think he is FOS.  They already know where Natalee is.  Someone cut a deal and they are making it look like they just found her.  JMO


I reached that point a long time ago.I feel ya!!! I lost it for him when the trap was found,a cry for donations, then a sudden departure before mine was ever cashed... ::MonkeyMad::

It's unfortunate.  I will never donate a cent to his cause.

Have a good day everyone.

Hopefully the news that will come out of Aruba will put an end to this nightmare for Natalee's parents.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 07:27:53 AM
Klaas,  Please don't think I am O/T on this. I am, getting to the point at the end of this to say how important it is to learn from all who are here and all who have gone before us, including our sweet, much to live for, Natalee, Stephany,  Peaches and Jamie. First a note to CBB then the rest...

CBB

If you get tired of waitin' and frustratin a growin', may I pul-ase have some pretty Christmas flowers  or somethin on my imp avatar, but if it gets really busy tomorrow, I a willin to wait 'til things die down.

BACKGROUND TO GET TO YOUR COMPLIMENT AT THE END
Picked some of these ways of talkin' from reading and trying to find my great, great, great, great, great great, great grandfather whose family and religious friends were persecuted (drown, burnt at the stake, starved, frozen, imprisoned, executed in Switzerland for their religion so some fled to Germany, Palatine area..also known as Palatines). They were very early Protestants called Anabaptist  (but known as Mennonites when they came to America (PA) and the Amish split from them)  A few changed in the Colonies to early Baptist churches, Lutheran, and Brethren.  Anyway grandpa Johannes (my grandpa to the 8th) was Swiss but 1st generation born in Germany then he came here in 1749. Was a Blue Ridge Mountain Pioneer farmer Mennonite and a Kentucky Pioneer. Indian Scout, surveyor, Cumberland Compact signer ( first constitution of non Indian and residents on the American Frontier)  frontier Doctor and lived with Daniel Boone in Fort Boonesborough. He did other neat things in forming American but it's taken months to find them and write them down. Many clerks spelled his name phonetically, he probably was too scared of govt. retribution, to contradict anyone because of the violence in his past and then their religion was for little government, more for the people, nonviolence, oath to God.

 Well ... 25 different spellings of his last name. Been working 9 mos. Thank goodness my mother and her uncles/great uncles had oral history from the back to late 18th century but we didn't know what was true or what was embellished. So far it's all been true. Research I have found with the internet has helped me finally find his daughter's grave in VA on her husband's farm. Still there. There are 5 unmarked graves. My grandfather, to me is still missing, until I know where he is buried. He might be unmarked as some early ones did, perhaps not on purpose. Or he might be missing and buried about 4 miles up the road in VA. where is farm used to be. Wish I knew someone around there. When the family came to Indiana we have the history. The farm where my Inidiana grandfathers and my mom was born is still a working farm, plus open to the public for applies et al and the round barn is still there. I'd be mighty proud if you ever get to visit.. Pleak farm, southish of Greensburg Indiana..which is not too far SE of Indianapolis. (by the way, I am giving no security away as our family names listed here are not my parents legal names while living and not mine now) A whole new story for another time.

Got back so far to 1300. Back on the Wallaces 1023. Mistakes in Braveheart, a direct relative of mine, his lately translated Archaic Latin battle plate was translated wrong. His father is really the brother who was in the movie.

My point is that as bad as it has been for Natalee herself, her family, friends and our Scared Monkey Family here, I have learned from here and from working, months, finding my ancestors

to see how import it is to remember them, honor them, find them with missing graves because to me those still are missing persons, learn from their survival in their time (called history for us) for the long or shorter years on earth FOR WE ARE THEM


Good Bless all those who have proceeded us.

I will always indebted to Natalee, Stephany, their parents, family, and the Monkey Family here for learning Goodness.

Of course I had my eyes opened by violence (personally and here) more than I wished, but what I have learned of Evil, real Evil..... how it changes Souls, creeps into all places when sometimes you don't even know it is there until??? and grows. All in plain sight!

Evil in some people, some governments, elitism, cronyism, corruptness and the evil act of not acting all feed by evil but maybe not thinking that was as it was happening but keep going in plain site even after others begin to think the actions were evil.

Natalee, and our Scared Monkey Family have helped me learn more about Faith, God, Good Works, more Faith, Justice, Love, and open my eyes to evil and need to get more God like. Her death has not been in vain.

I have many quirks, like most, but I will not watch violent movies, raps. Never did for I think even though it might be on in another room our mind remembers everything and down deep will made me more evil if I watch them, especially, over and over. It will desensitize so we won't be and do Good.

HERE'S THE HIP-HIP ::MonkeyCheer4:: ::MonkeyCheer4:: PART
ready???

IMO (in my personal opinion for those just learning)

Scared Monkeys with their collective Minds, questioning, setting forth Main Stream Media to get their facts straight, Goodness, research, Faith, even protesting when Aruba was at travel shows "Where's Natalee", backing Red, Jossy, The Holloways, The Twittys, Tim and all searchers from here who searched in a search, searched here in the US because they learned from and loved Natalee.  Even the talk of an "eye for eye' and "riding shotgun" is good in it's own way. It makes us think we couldn't (shouldn't) so ponder other more upright ways to be better. Oh hecky-durn.

All this will go down as the first of its kind in the History of the Internet and will be remembered how the good collectiveness of the Internet can do Good Works, works even for an exciting future!

OK there was some reading to get your mind off of waiting.

Lost the candle link for Natalee. Help please?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5700.0


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 07:29:55 AM
I don't expect to hear anything until apx. 4:59 pm. That way they can send out the mass email and close down the police station for the day.......take the back roads home, lol.....and hide.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Anna on November 23, 2010, 07:39:45 AM
The TV Channel Investigative Discovery is running their special "Who Killed Natalee Holloway" this morning. 

I wonder if this is just a coincidence and it was already scheduled or if they are running it because of the finding of the bone in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 07:40:44 AM
I don't expect to hear anything until apx. 4:59 pm. That way they can send out the mass email and close down the police station for the day.......take the back roads home, lol.....and hide.


(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/39.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 07:46:35 AM
I don't expect to hear anything until apx. 4:59 pm. That way they can send out the mass email and close down the police station for the day.......take the back roads home, lol.....and hide.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 23, 2010, 07:53:19 AM
http://www.myfoxal.com/Global/story.asp?S=13554553
New developments expected in Holloway investigation
Posted: Nov 23, 2010 6:19 AM CST Updated: Nov 23, 2010 6:19 AM CST
(http://wbrc.images.worldnow.com/images/13554553_BG1.jpg)

MOUNTAIN BROOK, AL (WBRC) - New developments are expected Tuesday in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Aruban prosecutors say they will release the results of tests on a jawbone found on the beach there.

Investigators said last week that they believed the bone came from a female. It was found earlier this month on the western beach of the island of Aruba. The bone was sent to Europe for tests, first to determine if it is the bone of a human or an animal. The FBI sent Natalee Holloway's dental records to the Netherlands for comparison.

An Aruban official says prosecutors will issue a statement today with test results.

It has been more than five years since Natalee Holloway was last seen during a graduation trip to Aruba in 2005.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: KCJackie on November 23, 2010, 07:58:11 AM
 
::MonkeyAngel:: Please light a candle for Natalee.  ::MonkeyAngel::


http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=NAH

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Nat%27s


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 08:00:10 AM
I think it's so odd that the eath has given up two jawbones in what are obvious murder cases.We had a 911 operator come up missing and well she finally was found or at least her remains.The jawbone was the first discovery..Just odd..

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_184640.asp

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/5-2.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 08:03:34 AM

I copied Magnolia's post from a previous thread.  I am to the point that I can't stand Tim Miller anymore.  He is a media hog and it's not always about Tim Miller.  I don't trust him anymore and I think he is FOS.  They already know where Natalee is.  Someone cut a deal and they are making it look like they just found her.  JMO


I reached that point a long time ago.I feel ya!!! I lost it for him when the trap was found,a cry for donations, then a sudden departure before mine was ever cashed... ::MonkeyMad::


Edited to correct my typo = San
[/quote]

Tater, mine was cashed and I never heard from it and it was disignated for the search for Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 08:08:51 AM
Klaas,  Please don't think I am O/T on this. I am, getting to the point at the end of this to say how important it is to learn from all who are here and all who have gone before us, including our sweet, much to live for, Natalee, Stephany,  Peaches and Jamie. First a note to CBB then the rest...

CBB

If you get tired of waitin' and frustratin a growin', may I pul-ase have some pretty Christmas flowers  or somethin on my imp avatar, but if it gets really busy tomorrow, I a willin to wait 'til things die down.

BACKGROUND TO GET TO YOUR COMPLIMENT AT THE END
Picked some of these ways of talkin' from reading and trying to find my great, great, great, great, great great, great grandfather whose family and religious friends were persecuted (drown, burnt at the stake, starved, frozen, imprisoned, executed in Switzerland for their religion so some fled to Germany, Palatine area..also known as Palatines). They were very early Protestants called Anabaptist  (but known as Mennonites when they came to America (PA) and the Amish split from them)  A few changed in the Colonies to early Baptist churches, Lutheran, and Brethren.  Anyway grandpa Johannes (my grandpa to the 8th) was Swiss but 1st generation born in Germany then he came here in 1749. Was a Blue Ridge Mountain Pioneer farmer Mennonite and a Kentucky Pioneer. Indian Scout, surveyor, Cumberland Compact signer ( first constitution of non Indian and residents on the American Frontier)  frontier Doctor and lived with Daniel Boone in Fort Boonesborough. He did other neat things in forming American but it's taken months to find them and write them down. Many clerks spelled his name phonetically, he probably was too scared of govt. retribution, to contradict anyone because of the violence in his past and then their religion was for little government, more for the people, nonviolence, oath to God.

 Well ... 25 different spellings of his last name. Been working 9 mos. Thank goodness my mother and her uncles/great uncles had oral history from the back to late 18th century but we didn't know what was true or what was embellished. So far it's all been true. Research I have found with the internet has helped me finally find his daughter's grave in VA on her husband's farm. Still there. There are 5 unmarked graves. My grandfather, to me is still missing, until I know where he is buried. He might be unmarked as some early ones did, perhaps not on purpose. Or he might be missing and buried about 4 miles up the road in VA. where is farm used to be. Wish I knew someone around there. When the family came to Indiana we have the history. The farm where my Inidiana grandfathers and my mom was born is still a working farm, plus open to the public for applies et al and the round barn is still there. I'd be mighty proud if you ever get to visit.. Pleak farm, southish of Greensburg Indiana..which is not too far SE of Indianapolis. (by the way, I am giving no security away as our family names listed here are not my parents legal names while living and not mine now) A whole new story for another time.

Got back so far to 1300. Back on the Wallaces 1023. Mistakes in Braveheart, a direct relative of mine, his lately translated Archaic Latin battle plate was translated wrong. His father is really the brother who was in the movie.

My point is that as bad as it has been for Natalee herself, her family, friends and our Scared Monkey Family here, I have learned from here and from working, months, finding my ancestors

to see how import it is to remember them, honor them, find them with missing graves because to me those still are missing persons, learn from their survival in their time (called history for us) for the long or shorter years on earth FOR WE ARE THEM


Good Bless all those who have proceeded us.

I will always indebted to Natalee, Stephany, their parents, family, and the Monkey Family here for learning Goodness.

Of course I had my eyes opened by violence (personally and here) more than I wished, but what I have learned of Evil, real Evil..... how it changes Souls, creeps into all places when sometimes you don't even know it is there until??? and grows. All in plain sight!

Evil in some people, some governments, elitism, cronyism, corruptness and the evil act of not acting all feed by evil but maybe not thinking that was as it was happening but keep going in plain site even after others begin to think the actions were evil.

Natalee, and our Scared Monkey Family have helped me learn more about Faith, God, Good Works, more Faith, Justice, Love, and open my eyes to evil and need to get more God like. Her death has not been in vain.

I have many quirks, like most, but I will not watch violent movies, raps. Never did for I think even though it might be on in another room our mind remembers everything and down deep will made me more evil if I watch them, especially, over and over. It will desensitize so we won't be and do Good.

HERE'S THE HIP-HIP ::MonkeyCheer4:: ::MonkeyCheer4:: PART
ready???

IMO (in my personal opinion for those just learning)

Scared Monkeys with their collective Minds, questioning, setting forth Main Stream Media to get their facts straight, Goodness, research, Faith, even protesting when Aruba was at travel shows "Where's Natalee", backing Red, Jossy, The Holloways, The Twittys, Tim and all searchers from here who searched in a search, searched here in the US because they learned from and loved Natalee.  Even the talk of an "eye for eye' and "riding shotgun" is good in it's own way. It makes us think we couldn't (shouldn't) so ponder other more upright ways to be better. Oh hecky-durn.

All this will go down as the first of its kind in the History of the Internet and will be remembered how the good collectiveness of the Internet can do Good Works, works even for an exciting future!

OK there was some reading to get your mind off of waiting.

Lost the candle link for Natalee. Help please?



IBE, my ancestors are from Shenandoah valley.  I sure don't want to discourage you but I have been working on finding my great grandfathers gravesite for the last 12 years and it would only be no more than 25 miles from me.  I will not give up though because my mother died not knowing hardly anything about her mothers family.  I do it for her. 

I think this is why I do it for Natalee also.  Family is important.  Knowing where they are in the afterlife is important.  A place to visit, to remember, to cry at. 

God bless Beth, Dave and Matt.  I am here off and on today (unless I get fired for getting on this website).



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 08:13:33 AM

I copied Magnolia's post from a previous thread.  I am to the point that I can't stand Tim Miller anymore.  He is a media hog and it's not always about Tim Miller.  I don't trust him anymore and I think he is FOS.  They already know where Natalee is.  Someone cut a deal and they are making it look like they just found her.  JMO


I reached that point a long time ago.I feel ya!!! I lost it for him when the trap was found,a cry for donations, then a sudden departure before mine was ever cashed... ::MonkeyMad::


Edited to correct my typo = San

Tater, mine was cashed and I never heard from it and it was disignated for the search for Natalee.
[/quote]

Mine was cashed too but after the departure and it also was designated for Natalee but that doesnt mean it went there.It still makes my blood boil...(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/mad.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 08:21:32 AM
Me too....and I also never received a thank-you.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 08:27:02 AM
Me too....and I also never received a thank-you.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/gifs%206/trouble.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 08:27:24 AM
We never even got our shirts for joining the orlando one way back when. Plus the other donations never a thanks either <shrugs>
Like everyone else we gave him benifit of doubt but this was last straw. I couldnt even watch him last night talking i was boiling with the talk about the targets and the boat on stand by! Sadly it is bitter sweet because I feel he got lost along the way.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: kkthy on November 22, 2010, 10:05:21 PM
We had Channel 3 Eyewitness News, Hallie Jackson, at our home tonight. (I mentioned this in an earlier post)  It was very nerve wracking but we all got through it.  They are putting it on the air tonight at 11:00PM Eastern time.  They mentioned that CNN would probably used some of the video clips too at some point.  I feel so relieved that we should all find out tomorrow whether the DNA matches Natalee.   I am praying....


I live in CT also I saw you on Channel 3 Eyewitness News.
 You Brought tears to my eyes when you were crying.
You seem like a very nice person.
If this is Natalee Thank You for taking good care of her we have been lookin for her for 51/2 years now.
You will never be the same. I thought I found her in a picture and it has changed my life since.
I still think in my heart this is Natalee. I think they put her in the water, but where?


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2024/flipped.jpg)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2024/nat.jpg)




Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 08:37:51 AM
We never even got our shirts for joining the orlando one way back when. Plus the other donations never a thanks either <shrugs>
Like everyone else we gave him benifit of doubt but this was last straw. I couldnt even watch him last night talking i was boiling with the talk about the targets and the boat on stand by! Sadly it is bitter sweet because I feel he got lost along the way.

Well hubby just reminded me not to sweat it because our hearts were in the right place.Then he said," I told you then to be careful as to where you put our hard earned cash"..(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/buttkick.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 08:44:17 AM
http://www.cbs42.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=24122@wiat.web.entriq.net&navCatId=3

This is another video of Tim Miller on CBS42 last night.

The first one I listened to was shorter and didn't mention the boat in Trinidad or the hopefully "home by Christmas"...this one does.

You can watch it at the link above, or click on the picture below.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/th_CBS42NataleeHolloway11222010.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/?action=view&current=CBS42NataleeHolloway11222010.mp4)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 08:49:54 AM
Quote from: kkthy on November 22, 2010, 10:05:21 PM
We had Channel 3 Eyewitness News, Hallie Jackson, at our home tonight. (I mentioned this in an earlier post)  It was very nerve wracking but we all got through it.  They are putting it on the air tonight at 11:00PM Eastern time.  They mentioned that CNN would probably used some of the video clips too at some point.  I feel so relieved that we should all find out tomorrow whether the DNA matches Natalee.   I am praying....


I live in CT also I saw you on Channel 3 Eyewitness News.
 You Brought tears to my eyes when you were crying.
You seem like a very nice person.
If this is Natalee Thank You for taking good care of her we have been lookin for her for 51/2 years now.
You will never be the same. I thought I found her in a picture and it has changed my life since.
I still think in my heart this is Natalee. I think they put her in the water, but where?





The pictures still takes my breath away..(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/38.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 08:56:26 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 08:59:52 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/thewitch.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Sassycat on November 23, 2010, 09:01:07 AM
Me too....and I also never received a thank-you.

I got a really nice thank you when I donated to TES.   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 09:05:54 AM
We never even got our shirts for joining the orlando one way back when. Plus the other donations never a thanks either <shrugs>
Like everyone else we gave him benifit of doubt but this was last straw. I couldnt even watch him last night talking i was boiling with the talk about the targets and the boat on stand by! Sadly it is bitter sweet because I feel he got lost along the way.

Well hubby just reminded me not to sweat it because our hearts were in the right place.Then he said," I told you then to be careful as to where you put our hard earned cash"..(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/buttkick.gif)

Same thing my other half said! :2doh:


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 09:06:44 AM
First time poster - hope this works.

I am confused about the trap that they found way back when.  Was it just left there?  I thought the Aruba po-lice took it off along with it's contents?  Now they are going back, NOW, to retrieve it and what is inside it? 

Great - I finally get accepted as a monkey and I gotta work today!!  Of all days.

Also, I had the privilege of hearing Beth speak at a Prayer Breakfast several years ago - she is truly an admirable woman.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 09:08:16 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.

Agreed Muffy is why it is such a struggle to understand what happened.  As i said somehow i think he got lost if im saying that right. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 23, 2010, 09:10:55 AM
Just anxiously awaiting the results....

BHT: Aruba never had the decency to give this grief stricken family the closure they so desperately needed and deserved. We can not even begin to imagine the roller coaster of emotions that the island has put them through.

Aruba: Certainly, they should know by now the results. Just like the old days, they are probably having closed door meetings to strategize and map out any possible outcomes from this news. The Karma train is coming their way, though.

Joran: If this indeed is NH's remains, the "no body, no case" theory shall no longer apply. According to other posters who stated that the FBI were mere witnesses to a confession by Joran (near June 9, 2005), this physical evidence should seal his fate. ALE should not be able to wiggle away from this one, unless Arlene Schippers re-writes the law down there. Aruba will have a body and a confession, at the very least.

K2, and other peripheral participants: The snowball may have begun rolling downhill. Better get out of the way.

Keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed for good (and long overdue) news...The world is watching.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 09:12:09 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.

thank you Muffy....I was hoping someone had straightened jj out about TEXASEQUUSEARCH.....which is more than just Tim..


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: blah on November 23, 2010, 09:13:26 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/thewitch.jpg)

Highly doubtful?  How many young female body parts do they have washing up on their beaches?  Must be a lot.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: pink angel on November 23, 2010, 09:14:15 AM
Investigators are expected to reveal whether a jawbone found in Aruba belongs to Natalee Holloway, who disappeared without a trace in 2005. But, details are emerging on how that bone was found on the beach by a man from Lebanon on a trip with his friends.

Both of the couples said that if the bone does belong to Holloway, they just want her family to know that they treated the discovery with dignity and have been going through a range of emotions ever since they found it.

The friends from Andover and Lebanon flew to Aruba earlier this month to celebrate their wedding anniversaries together.

They said the bone was found on the last day of their trip.

"It was out last day at The Phoenix," said David Knox, of Andover. "We decided to relax and enjoy the beach."

So the couples, celebrating their 35th wedding anniversaries at the resort, took a swim.

However, while Gil Beaulieu's wife and friends sat in the sun, he strolled the beach.

"Gil was trying to find that perfect shell," Knox said.

Beaulieu said, "I noticed there wasn't a lot of people in that area, so I thought maybe I could find some shells."

Beaulieu, from Lebanon, said he noticed a really shiny one that caught his eye.

"I picked up the shell first," he said. "Then I saw the bone. I hesitated because I kind of knew what it was right off the bat."

He said he brought it to his wife, an X-ray technologist who looks at bones every day.

"You do hesitate, because you're not expecting to find a human bone," said Eileen Beaulieu.

"All the teeth were missing except for one molar in the back," Gil Beaulieu said. "It was in good shape."

Such good shape that they could even see a tiny hole in the tooth.

By now, Kathy Knox said she had Natalee Holloway in her head.

"That was basically what I was thinking about," she said. "Is it Natalee?"

They said they put the jaw bone in a plastic cup and then Beaulieu and Knox brought it to the hotel lobby where security took it.

After dinner, a note in their hotel door requested they call police right away.

That's when it was real," Knox said.

Authorities are now analyzing the bone to see if it belongs to Holloway.

And if it is, Eileen Beaulieu said she want's Halloway's mother to know they took care of it respectfully.

"I'd want her to know that we took care of it. We treated it with dignity," Beaulieu said.

"I began to think of the family," said Kathy Knox. "You know, if this is Natalee maybe the family can have some closure."

And if not, at least, perhaps answers for someone.

Fighting back tears, Kathy Knox said, "I don't even know the family, but if my child was missing I can't even imagine being as strong as she has been."

"We all hope very much that this puts an end to somebody's heartache," Gil Beaulieu said.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/25889547/detail.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 09:14:25 AM
GrnLizrd -I think you see what I mean.  If Tim Miller and Equusearch had always been shysters or thought of as having a havey-cavey operation and never found anyone then I don't think I would be nearly as mad as I am about what's gone on with the Persistence and with his Beth Bashing.  But there was a certain amount of hope and trust (and money) invested and that was shattered later on in Natalee's case.  And that's JMHO.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: pink angel on November 23, 2010, 09:15:16 AM
(http://www.wfsb.com/2010/1123/25889792_640X480.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 09:15:36 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.

Thank you MuffyBee!   ::MonkeyCool::

Very well stated, and I agree!  And yes, I'm mad too in case anyone missed that in the last thread.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 09:15:43 AM
It's so great to see you Blah, and also of course, Judge Mental, pink angel, trimmonthelake, MalteseMom, mz_maven, Frijole, cadillac, BUCKSHOT, blah, texasmom, GrnLizrd, Nut44x4, ssanders, Harper, SunnyinTX, Tater, akmom, Lifesong, Green Eyes, numbersgirl, Kimmy53, darla, littlebuddy598, Sassycat, PJ, Monken, theboyzmom, megamooo, RoxiBalboa, AZSunny, tbivens (+ 1 Hidden) and 35 Guests are viewing this topic this morning. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 09:19:07 AM


jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.
[/quote]

I'm certainly not going to dispute any of this! As far as what he said about Beth,I have no knowledge of it though I have seen it referenced here a few times.I'm not even going there to see as I need nothing else to fire my soul..I'm sorry Muffy if I offended you in anyway..(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/Tot5658/empathy.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: blah on November 23, 2010, 09:21:47 AM
Hiya Muffy  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 09:21:57 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.

Agreed Muffy is why it is such a struggle to understand what happened.  As i said somehow i think he got lost if im saying that right. 

Thanks for setting the record straight, Muffy.  It is true that Tim Miller has many, many success stories.

Unfortunately, he also has his own personal demons which have made him vulnerable to the manipulations of others. 



2/14/2010

Tim Miller on Steph Watts’ blog talk radio show “Watts Up With This?” (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/02/15/watts-up-with-this)       

Quote
Steph:   “Tim Miller, other people are asking ‘are there any plans to search in the ocean?'  isn’t that like looking for a needle in a haystack in this case?" 

Tim:  “Not really, not with the equipment that John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer have.  In fact, two years ago on December 30th we found a fish trap and we was almost positive it was Natalee’s body in the fish trap.  We dove on it along with the Aruban authorities and then they said they’ve got to contact the Netherlands to see how to preserve it and what to do with it, and we was all going to dive on it together.  The Aruban authorities dove on it and then six weeks later they said the DNA came back as a male.  So, did we find Natalee?  I don’t know.  It certainly looked like her clothes in that fish trap and again we know that the night Natalee disappeared the fishermen’s huts were broken into, a knife was stolen, the big fish trap was stolen, uh, and ironic we found one and I’ve actually got the pictures of that, you know, what certainly appears to be a body in that fish trap.  So, I don’t know.   


2/28/2010
   
Tim Miller on Steph Watts’ blog talk radio show “Watts Up With This?” (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/03/01/watts-up-with-this)   

Quote
Steph:   “Tim, regarding the 2007 search that you did of the island where you found the lobster trap with the human remains in it, what was the outcome of that? 

Tim:  “Well, I mean, we… (sigh) we don’t really know.  We can’t say positively for sure that there was human remains.  Of course, we got some images and some pictures that certainly made us wonder, and um, you know, what that outcome is, I mean, John Silvetti certainly, um, doesn’t feel 100% that it was and that’s why John wants to go back over there with his ROV because we got 140 plus targets over there.  So, you know, there’s… you know, we just got mixed messages on that if you want to know the truth and possibly we overreacted at that time.  What we seen at the time certainly looked suspicious to us at the time, but again, you know, I can’t say positively one or the other what it was. 



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: pink angel on November 23, 2010, 09:22:14 AM
It's so great to see you Blah, and also of course, Judge Mental, pink angel, trimmonthelake, MalteseMom, mz_maven, Frijole, cadillac, BUCKSHOT, blah, texasmom, GrnLizrd, Nut44x4, ssanders, Harper, SunnyinTX, Tater, akmom, Lifesong, Green Eyes, numbersgirl, Kimmy53, darla, littlebuddy598, Sassycat, PJ, Monken, theboyzmom, megamooo, RoxiBalboa, AZSunny, tbivens (+ 1 Hidden) and 35 Guests are viewing this topic this morning. 

Back at ya babe!
(http://pics.homere.jmsp.net/t_24/101x80/bizoux_singe.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Frijole on November 23, 2010, 09:23:03 AM
Good morning monkey friends!  After all these years - what can possibly be said?  Thinking of Natalee's family and friends today.  Hoping for closure that they so deserve.  It's time to bring our dear Natalee home where she belongs.  Can't help but think of Natalee's favorite movie and the line we all know:  THERE IS NO PLACE LIKE HOME, THERE IS NO PLACE LIKE HOME.

May today be the day that Natalee is allowed to go home where she is so loved and missed.  RIP Freebird Angel RIP

Frijole
 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 09:24:56 AM
GrnLizrd -I think you see what I mean.  If Tim Miller and Equusearch had always been shysters or thought of as having a havey-cavey operation and never found anyone then I don't think I would be nearly as mad as I am about what's gone on with the Persistence and with his Beth Bashing.  But there was a certain amount of hope and trust (and money) invested and that was shattered later on in Natalee's case.  And that's JMHO.

 I do see. I dont post much because you guys read my mind most of the time!  ::MonkeyTongue::
 But the fact is the reason I have daily read this thread for 5.5 yrs is because of the love and dedication and total respect for each other and all of the victims and familys.
 I love the tight ship that is kept here. And i must also say after reading over there last night for awhile i had forgot how lucky we are to have this site to calll our own.  I may not type alot but believe me behind the scenes I am a monkey through and through.  I am usually just a shy quiet one  ::MonkeyDevil::
 Good to see so many here in the last few days warms the heart. I also miss our Peaches and some of the others. As I said I don't type much but I"m here everyday logged in or not. Sorry for the long post I guess it's the wait.

Edit to fix typos per Grn's request.  MB


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 09:26:52 AM
Hans Mos, that chuckle head! How could we forget him?

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/hanslobster.jpg)

Oh, I will never forget him! There was a time when I believed him and he gave me hope for honesty. Boy, what a shmuck I was!

I bought into it too, CBB. 

And talk about getting sent to bed early cause my nose was pressed up against the glass here.............caused me anxiety I tell ya. lol  I thought something happened.  I'm addicted to Scared Monkeys. haha  What a great place.

Morning Monkeys.

I'm praying for Dave and Beth.   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 09:27:05 AM
ack! Muffy could you fix my typo in the I miss sentence PLease. So sorry i was doing the San Stutter i think. Lack of sleep maybe <shrug>

Done.  I miss Peaches too.  MB


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 23, 2010, 09:27:12 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/23/earlyshow/main7082039.shtml
Nov. 23, 2010
Word on Possible Holloway Jawbone Today?
DNA Results Expected in Aruba; Beth Holloway's Friend: She Can Accept, whether Bone Is Natalee's or Not


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: tbivens on November 23, 2010, 09:28:38 AM
Thanks for the welcome, Muffy Bee.  I have been following this case from the beginning, usually in the rafters.  I hope and pray that this family gets some closure.  I can't imagine what they have been through for the past 5 + years.  If it is Nat, and I pray that it is, nothing will be solved.  It will only put to bed the fact that we know she is deceased.  All of the Aruban players are still behind the scenes.  I pray that someone will try to make this right.  It is beyond time to do this.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 09:39:12 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/23/earlyshow/main7082039.shtml
Nov. 23, 2010
Word on Possible Holloway Jawbone Today?
DNA Results Expected in Aruba; Beth Holloway's Friend: She Can Accept, whether Bone Is Natalee's or Not
Thanks trimmonthelake!   ::MonkeyCool::

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/23/earlyshow/main7082039.shtml

Nov. 23, 2010

Word on Possible Holloway Jawbone Today?

DNA Results Expected in Aruba;
Beth Holloway's Friend: She Can Accept, whether Bone Is Natalee's or Not


(CBS)  Today it's expected that the family of Natalee Holloway will finally find out if a jawbone found on a beach in Aruba belonged to the missing U.S. teen.

CBS News correspondent Kelly Cobiella reported from Oranjestad, Aruba.

Aruban authorities are expected to announce the results of DNA tests.

If a match is made, prosecutors could use this new evidence to finally tie her death to their primary suspect.

The testing that could solve the mystery of Natalee Holloway's disappearance is now complete.

The 18-year-old's family is waiting to hear whether her daughter's DNA is a match to the most promising clue yet, found on this windswept beach in Aruba, not far from where Natalee Holloway was staying when she disappeared in 2005.

Dr. Cyril Wecht, a forensic pathologist, told CBS News, "The DNA is going to be the gold standard; that's going to be the acid test."

Holloway was last seen with Joran van der Sloot, the 23-year-old Dutchman currently awaiting trial in Peru for the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. Van der Sloot was arrested twice in connection with Holloway's disappearance but was never charged. In 2006, the lead Aruban investigator in the case spoke with "48 Hours" correspondent Troy Roberts about the suspected killer.

Roberts asked Gerold Dompig, "What did FBI profilers tell you about Jordan van der Sloot's psychological profile?"

Dompig replied, "Well, they used the word 'sociopath' and the fact that he was capable of lying about basically everything."

Roberts asked, "Pathological liar?"

Dompig answered, "Yes."

Waiting for the test results has been agonizing for Holloway's family, but experts say prosecutors might be using the time to strengthen their case against van der Sloot.

CBS News Legal Analyst Lisa Bloom said of the case, "If this is Natalle Holloway's jawbone investigators can go back and look at all Joran van der Sloot's statements and try to match them up with the new evidence, especially the location of where this was found. Does it match up with his stories about where he left Natalee or where he supposedly dumped her body?"

But even if the test results prove that Holloway died in Aruba, Cobiella remarked, how she died is still a mystery.

Cobiella added there have been many false leads and false confessions in this case over the past five years, and there is still the possibility that this jawbone could be another false lead.

Carol Standifer, a close friend of Natalee's mother Beth Holloway, agreed on "The Early Show" from Birmingham, Ala., that this could be a false lead and that her friend is prepared for whatever the DNA results could reveal.

"We've had a lot of ups and downs and a lot of really unusual circumstances happen throughout this entire event and this is just one more thing that we have to deal with right now," she said.

She added, "If it is Natalee, she's prepared to accept that. I think she has a level of acceptance right now with the situation, no matter how it turns out, how ever the results turn out. If it's not Natalee, we have a greater tragedy because that would mean there would be two unsolved murders on the beach in Aruba. It's even a greater tragedy, really, if it's not Natalee."

Standifer says all Beth Holloway wants is an answer.

"Any mother would," she said. "We have been searching for her for over five years and I think if it is Natalee, there will be some semblance of closure. Of course, it won't be complete closure, because we really don't know for sure exactly what happened."


"Early Show" co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez said perhaps those answers will come from Joran van der Sloot, whom Beth Holloway has confronted about her daughter's disappearance.

Standifer said Beth Holloway would like to hear from van der Sloot.

"She would like to know what happened, and I feel one day she will know one day what happened," she said. "But we never know what Joran will do. We never know how he's going to react in any situation. We just have to wait and see."

But Beth Holloway, Standifer said, will endure the announcement, either way.

"She has moved on with her life in a way. She is doing a lot of work with missing children, missing people. She has a foundation for Natalee in Washington, which she already started and done a lot of work with, and she's done a lot to further awareness of missing children, so I think she will just continue with this. If it is Natalee, I really can't say what her next step will be. I don't know if she knows exactly what her next step will be. We just have to take things one day at a time, which is really what we've had to do throughout this entire situation."


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 09:42:13 AM
What's the matter Tim you can't mention Natalee's mother Beth.  Because she is the reason we are all here now.  Beth's visit to Peru made this happen.  Tim is pissed at her for ruining his plans.  I am going to shut up because I'm starting to get mad.

Morning all ... Sorry way behind in my reading and catching up on the thread.

I actually spoke with Beth about this a while back and she stated she had no idea why he was acting or saying anything negative. Nothing happened that she was aware of. I think Tim needs to remember how many TES functions that Beth did for them.

I think he needs to remember the big picture and that is Natalee Holloway went missing. Being a parent of crime I would like to think that this should be easy for him.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 09:44:06 AM
Thanks for the welcome, Muffy Bee.  I have been following this case from the beginning, usually in the rafters.  I hope and pray that this family gets some closure.  I can't imagine what they have been through for the past 5 + years.  If it is Nat, and I pray that it is, nothing will be solved.  It will only put to bed the fact that we know she is deceased.  All of the Aruban players are still behind the scenes.  I pray that someone will try to make this right.  It is beyond time to do this.


ITA tbivens.  I've seen you in the rafters over the years, and it's great you're here posting your support.   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 09:44:44 AM
First time poster - hope this works.

I am confused about the trap that they found way back when.  Was it just left there?  I thought the Aruba po-lice took it off along with it's contents?  Now they are going back, NOW, to retrieve it and what is inside it? 

Great - I finally get accepted as a monkey and I gotta work today!!  Of all days.

Also, I had the privilege of hearing Beth speak at a Prayer Breakfast several years ago - she is truly an admirable woman.

Welcome Cadillac - hope someone answers your question.  I haven't had my first cup of coffee so I'm in no position to  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 09:46:03 AM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

This is not completely true. TES has done many searches in the past on cases that never make the news. They have been a part of sucessful searches, the MSM just never thought the cases were worth covering.

That does not mean that I have to scratch my heads in how some of the higher profile cases were dealt with.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 09:46:17 AM
What's the matter Tim you can't mention Natalee's mother Beth.  Because she is the reason we are all here now.  Beth's visit to Peru made this happen.  Tim is pissed at her for ruining his plans.  I am going to shut up because I'm starting to get mad.

Morning all ... Sorry way behind in my reading and catching up on the thread.

I actually spoke with Beth about this a while back and she stated she had no idea why he was acting or saying anything negative. Nothing happened that she was aware of. I think Tim needs to remember how many TES functions that Beth did for them.

I think he needs to remember the big picture and that is Natalee Holloway went missing. Being a parent of crime I would like to think that this should be easy for him.


Good morning Red.  Thank you for sharing your conversation with Beth concerning Tim Miller.  And ITA with you.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 09:47:16 AM
Welcome tbivens and Cadillac.  And anyone else I may have missed.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 09:49:03 AM
Thank you Red for Scared Monkeys.  And thanks for your kind words the other day.  I'm sorry for your loss too.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Groovy135 on November 23, 2010, 09:50:16 AM
Here's hoping for some answers today......but either way it goes,,,,,
 Love & prayers for ♥ Natalee ♥ and her family always!!


All of you should be very proud, you have stood up for Nat & her family since day 1!!   Thanks for the major commitment and honor you have shown.



 :smt060 :smt060 :smt060


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 09:52:02 AM
http://www.cbs42.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=24122@wiat.web.entriq.net&navCatId=3

This is another video of Tim Miller on CBS42 last night.

The first one I listened to was shorter and didn't mention the boat in Trinidad or the hopefully "home by Christmas"...this one does.

You can watch it at the link above, or click on the picture below.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/th_CBS42NataleeHolloway11222010.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/?action=view&current=CBS42NataleeHolloway11222010.mp4)

141 areas targeted and never searched. Um.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 09:52:10 AM
Morning monkeys.

Thank you Muffy, I appreciate your words.

Sunny, I have to go to work in an hour. Can you text me the results on Natalee? I won't be able to check in till after 7pm. Appreciate it!!
 ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 09:53:19 AM
Well hubby just called and ask if I thought I might possibly want to work on a job-site today?  You'd think after 29 years he'd know that I am the boss of me.  Well guess I better go.  I'll BBL PDQ


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 09:54:26 AM
What's the matter Tim you can't mention Natalee's mother Beth.  Because she is the reason we are all here now.  Beth's visit to Peru made this happen.  Tim is pissed at her for ruining his plans.  I am going to shut up because I'm starting to get mad.

Morning all ... Sorry way behind in my reading and catching up on the thread.

I actually spoke with Beth about this a while back and she stated she had no idea why he was acting or saying anything negative. Nothing happened that she was aware of. I think Tim needs to remember how many TES functions that Beth did for them.

I think he needs to remember the big picture and that is Natalee Holloway went missing. Being a parent of crime I would like to think that this should be easy for him.

Good morning Red!  

Thanks for the update.  

Beth's reaction to Tim's behavior reinforces my suspicion that Tim's sudden lack of decency is more than likely directly related to the company he's keeping.  

That's still no excuse for what he did, he crossed the line.

JMO

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 09:55:24 AM
If this is correct.  Also, I believe the Netherlands is about 8 hours ahead of us:

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/zuid-holland/2010/uitsluitsel-gevonden-kaak-aruba/

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/NataleeJawboneDutchPaper.jpg)

So when would that be?  This morning?  I'm so confused ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Judge Mental on November 23, 2010, 09:57:30 AM
kkathy...  Your interview brought tears to my eyes.  I thank you from the bottom of my heart for treating the remains with the respect they deserve - whether they be Natalee or some other lost soul.  This case has been handled with so much disrespect throughout.  You restore my faith that there are still those with compassion in their hearts.  I'm truly happy (as happy as one can be under the circumstances) that YOU and your family were the ones to come across this discovery.  Blessings to you and yours!

       


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: tbivens on November 23, 2010, 09:57:55 AM
Thanks, Muffy.  If only I didn't have to work, I feel I would be a stronger supporter!  But, I sneak in here every chance I get and read all of the comments.  Like most of you, I am just appalled that something like this could happen in this day and time.  My blood is beyond boiling in this tragic case. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 09:58:06 AM
If this is correct.  Also, I believe the Netherlands is about 8 hours ahead of us:

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/zuid-holland/2010/uitsluitsel-gevonden-kaak-aruba/

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/NataleeJawboneDutchPaper.jpg)

So when would that be?  This morning?  I'm so confused ::MonkeyCool::

 Same here.. cause I was going to ask if anyone knew what time the announcement was going to be made!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on November 23, 2010, 09:59:22 AM
If this is correct.  Also, I believe the Netherlands is about 8 hours ahead of us:

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/zuid-holland/2010/uitsluitsel-gevonden-kaak-aruba/

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/NataleeJawboneDutchPaper.jpg)

So when would that be?  This morning?  I'm so confused ::MonkeyCool::

I like the last line.  That Van der sloot is currently "stuck" in Peru.   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: RoxiBalboa on November 23, 2010, 10:00:02 AM
Morning Monkeys. I woke up sick, emotional mess. My prayers and thoughts go out to the Holloway family. Tito, Julia and others are talking on Tito's facebook page but I couldn't figure out how to bring it over, someone might want to. I'll be here hitting refresh all day. Thanks to all the Monkeys


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:01:11 AM
If this is correct.  Also, I believe the Netherlands is about 8 hours ahead of us:

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/zuid-holland/2010/uitsluitsel-gevonden-kaak-aruba/

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/NataleeJawboneDutchPaper.jpg)

So when would that be?  This morning?  I'm so confused ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks Klaas!

Time in Amsterdam right now...

Tuesday, November 23, 2010 at 3:59:46 PM CET

So I'm thinking about 1:30 my time which is Central.
Edit to add link-MB: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=16


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 10:01:24 AM
Morning monkeys.

Thank you Muffy, I appreciate your words.

Sunny, I have to go to work in an hour. Can you text me the results on Natalee? I won't be able to check in till after 7pm. Appreciate it!!
 ::MonkeyKiss::

will do!! 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:03:03 AM
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=16

Sorry forgot the link in my last post!   :2redface:


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 10:03:07 AM
Its nice to see old posters and new ones come together ! ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:03:50 AM
I THINK - 2:30pm ET


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 10:04:54 AM
I THINK - 2:30pm ET

 Thanks !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 10:05:47 AM
I have to saw that the news regarding the jaw bone has to be the best kept secret in the history of Aruba. In the past, we were always able to shake the Divi Divi trees and some one would spill the news.

I have tried many contacts both here and in Aruba and get only rumors, no hard facts. How unlike Aruba.

Because every thing is so tight lipped and normal resources who have always been in the "know" in an off the record capacity leads me to believe that Dutch & Aruba authorities have made a concerted effort to only have a few on a need to know basis.

That leads me to believe that the tests will be a match. I can't believe that they would be making such an effort to keep quiet if it were not Natalee.

As my message stated to Beth yesterday, no matter what the news is, we are thinking about her, Natalee and the family. They are all in our hearts and prayers and hope the news provided some comfort to them.

Win, lose or draw ... we have their back ... we stand with the girl ... and this is just the beginning of JUSTICE FOR NATALEE.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:07:43 AM
I THINK - 2:30pm ET

Yes, according to NOOR at RU:

8:30 pm dutch time is 2:30 pm EST.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 10:09:20 AM
Its nice to see old posters and new ones come together ! ::MonkeyAngel::

It's always good to see you too Angiex.

So maybe around 1:30 central?  I can do that.

Joran stuck in Peru...............he gonna be stuck there a while me thinks.  And if he survives being stuck he's coming to Alabama.  Oh yea.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:10:07 AM
I have to saw that the news regarding the jaw bone has to be the best kept secret in the history of Aruba. In the past, we were always able to shake the Divi Divi trees and some one would spill the news.

I have tried many contacts both here and in Aruba and get only rumors, no hard facts. How unlike Aruba.

Because every thing is so tight lipped and normal resources who have always been in the "know" in an off the record capacity leads me to believe that Dutch & Aruba authorities have made a concerted effort to only have a few on a need to know basis.

That leads me to believe that the tests will be a match. I can't believe that they would be making such an effort to keep quiet if it were not Natalee.

As my message stated to Beth yesterday, no matter what the news is, we are thinking about her, Natalee and the family. They are all in our hearts and prayers and hope the news provided some comfort to them.

Win, lose or draw ... we have their back ... we stand with the girl ... and this is just the beginning of JUSTICE FOR NATALEE.


Absolutely!   ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyJustice:: for Natalee! ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: darla on November 23, 2010, 10:11:05 AM
If this is correct.  Also, I believe the Netherlands is about 8 hours ahead of us:

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/zuid-holland/2010/uitsluitsel-gevonden-kaak-aruba/

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/NataleeJawboneDutchPaper.jpg)

So when would that be?  This morning?  I'm so confused ::MonkeyCool::

I like the last line.  That Van der sloot is currently "stuck" in Peru.   ::MonkeyDance::



Good Morning Monkeys and Guest!

Did anyone else notice the above sentence "Meanwhile another piece of bone found"? Has that been reported before now?

Praying this is Natalee for her families sake. I know God is holding them close today.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:11:21 AM
I have to saw that the news regarding the jaw bone has to be the best kept secret in the history of Aruba. In the past, we were always able to shake the Divi Divi trees and some one would spill the news.

I have tried many contacts both here and in Aruba and get only rumors, no hard facts. How unlike Aruba.

Because every thing is so tight lipped and normal resources who have always been in the "know" in an off the record capacity leads me to believe that Dutch & Aruba authorities have made a concerted effort to only have a few on a need to know basis.

That leads me to believe that the tests will be a match. I can't believe that they would be making such an effort to keep quiet if it were not Natalee.

As my message stated to Beth yesterday, no matter what the news is, we are thinking about her, Natalee and the family. They are all in our hearts and prayers and hope the news provided some comfort to them.

Win, lose or draw ... we have their back ... we stand with the girl ... and this is just the beginning of JUSTICE FOR NATALEE.

Amen


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:12:43 AM
Darla - after the jawbone was reported, another family from NJ said they found what looked like a rib bone.  Speculation is that it is not human but it is going for testing.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 10:13:33 AM
Its nice to see old posters and new ones come together ! ::MonkeyAngel::

It's always good to see you too Angiex.

So maybe around 1:30 central?  I can do that.

Joran stuck in Peru...............he gonna be stuck there a while me thinks.  And if he survives being stuck he's coming to Alabama.  Oh yea.

Snoop Dawg in da house !  <you are in my prayers honey.. sorry for your loss>


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:13:44 AM
PeterRdeV The press conference at 17.00. If a match is P & W would like me to come, will be racing in the Arena ... So please do not wasting time!
2 hours ago from web

PeterRdeV It is a hectic evening: Ajax - Real in the Arena, but the news shows are lining up for a quootje about Natalee ...

http://twitter.com/PeterRdeV


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:17:01 AM
Lots of press about bubbles Aruba bone fragment. But I keep saying: Beth Holloway knows nothing, so it seems to me strongly that it matches.

http://twitter.com/PeterRdeV


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Maddie38 on November 23, 2010, 10:19:18 AM
PeterRdeV The press conference at 17.00. If a match is P & W would like me to come, will be racing in the Arena ... So please do not wasting time!
2 hours ago from web

http://twitter.com/PeterRdeV

That's about 45 minutes from now!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 10:19:53 AM
Hmmm - you think there is a suicide watch over in Peru??


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:20:37 AM
NEW ERA OF TOURISM IS LAUNCHED WITH SELECTION OF RONELLA TJIN ASJOE-CROES AS FIRST CEO OF ARUBA TOURISM AUTHORITYFormer Head of Bonaire Tourism and Aruban Native Takes Office January 1, 2011 as ATA becomes Independent, Privatized Marketing Organization

MORE...

http://www.pitchengine.com/pitch/103894/


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 10:21:04 AM
I THINK - 2:30pm ET

I hope I'm home from the Dentist  he  was the one  who helped me with the body in the bag pictures ..

Edit typo.  MB


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:21:27 AM
Hmmm - you think there is a suicide watch over in Peru??

Hope not and hope he is inept and it is slow and painful and they watch.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:22:55 AM
If that Dutch article is correct on the time of the release of the statement from the Prosecutors office it will be:


8:30pm Netherlands Time
3:30pm Aruba time
2:30pm Eastern Time
1:30pm Central Time
12:30pm Mountain Time
11:30am Pacific Time


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:25:03 AM
PeterRdeV The press conference at 17.00. If a match is P & W would like me to come, will be racing in the Arena ... So please do not wasting time!
2 hours ago from web

PeterRdeV It is a hectic evening: Ajax - Real in the Arena, but the news shows are lining up for a quootje about Natalee ...

http://twitter.com/PeterRdeV

That sounds like Peter is quoting Aruba time.  Wish I knew for sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 10:25:25 AM

I told myself not to be nervous today but my gut Won't Listen
I'm afraid Aruba will screw with us again

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 10:25:25 AM
Hmmm - you think there is a suicide watch over in Peru??

LOL Good one !!   ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 10:26:52 AM
I THINK - 2:30pm ET

I hope I'm home from the Dentist  he  was the one  who helped me with the body in the bad pictures ..
BAG


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:27:52 AM
PeterRdeV The press conference at 17.00. If a match is P & W would like me to come, will be racing in the Arena ... So please do not wasting time!
2 hours ago from web

PeterRdeV It is a hectic evening: Ajax - Real in the Arena, but the news shows are lining up for a quootje about Natalee ...

http://twitter.com/PeterRdeV

That sounds like Peter is quoting Aruba time.  Wish I knew for sure.

One of the Dutch tweeters just asked Peter if he meant Dutch time or Aruba time.  I will post if he responds.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 10:27:53 AM
Hmmm - you think there is a suicide watch over in Peru??

I doubt it considering the prison he is already sitting in.We must remember that Natalee is second concerning Peru..If he was going to do it,I would imagine he already would have.jmo


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on November 23, 2010, 10:31:13 AM
Good morning all. I have been sneaking in and lurking, just not posting. Just adds to the list of the cruel injustices inflicted upon Natalees loved one to have to wait until a designated time to find out if the jawbone is indeed Natalee's. Guess it should come as no surprise considering how the last five plus years have unfolded.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 10:33:41 AM
Good morning all. I have been sneaking in and lurking, just not posting. Just adds to the list of the cruel injustices inflicted upon Natalees loved one to have to wait until a designated time to find out if the jawbone is indeed Natalee's. Guess it should come as no surprise considering how the last five plus years have unfolded.

Praying this is FINALLY it !!c ::MonkeyAngel::

<miss you chicky>   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:36:48 AM
johnvandertol
Bio Work for Yahoo Broadcast West, SBS6, NOS, Alphen Stad FM / TV and shoot for various media such as newspapers, magazines and websites!

johnvandertol   I was told Dutch time.

http://twitter.com/johnvandertol
 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkthy on November 23, 2010, 10:37:46 AM
kkathy...  Your interview brought tears to my eyes.  I thank you from the bottom of my heart for treating the remains with the respect they deserve - whether they be Natalee or some other lost soul.  This case has been handled with so much disrespect throughout.  You restore my faith that there are still those with compassion in their hearts.  I'm truly happy (as happy as one can be under the circumstances) that YOU and your family were the ones to come across this discovery.  Blessings to you and yours!

       

Judge Mental:  Thank you for your kind words.  All four of us are so emotional about this entire experience. I am at the edge of my chair waiting as all of you are.   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 10:39:00 AM
Hmmm - you think there is a suicide watch over in Peru??

LOL Good one !!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Oh and don't forget the suicide watch in Aruba today also.  There are too many to name there that might be worried.  Wait - nevermind - no one on Aruba has a conscience, so scratch that.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:41:00 AM
johnvandertol
Bio Work for Yahoo Broadcast West, SBS6, NOS, Alphen Stad FM / TV and shoot for various media such as newspapers, magazines and websites!

johnvandertol   I was told Dutch time.

http://twitter.com/johnvandertol
 

That would be then at 8:30AM Pacific, 10:30 Central and 11:30 Eastern if correct right?  So in about an hour or less.  IF CORRECT.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:42:08 AM
Bio Journalist EénVandaag Television, AVRO

Lammert
Press Conference in Aruba found about jaw brought forward to 17.00 hours instead of 20.30 hours.

http://twitter.com/lammert


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 10:43:50 AM
Hmmm - you think there is a suicide watch over in Peru??

LOL Good one !!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Oh and don't forget the suicide watch in Aruba today also.  There are too many to name there that might be worried.  Wait - nevermind - no one on Aruba has a conscience, so scratch that.

Hopefully when the guilty parties attempt it, it will be Frosted Flakes time and it will be too late.  ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 10:45:09 AM
Hmmm - you think there is a suicide watch over in Peru??

LOL Good one !!   ::MonkeyDevil::

Oh and don't forget the suicide watch in Aruba today also.  There are too many to name there that might be worried.  Wait - nevermind - no one on Aruba has a conscience, so scratch that.


True !


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:47:12 AM
Bio Journalist EénVandaag Television, AVRO

Lammert
Press Conference in Aruba found about jaw brought forward to 17.00 hours instead of 20.30 hours.

http://twitter.com/lammert

So in less than 1 hour?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Robyn621 on November 23, 2010, 10:47:17 AM
Good morning monkeys! So, we should be hearing pretty soon...less than an hour now. I'm stunned that they aren't waiting until the last minute.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 10:48:32 AM
So what station on tv to tune into? 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 10:49:51 AM
Bio Journalist EénVandaag Television, AVRO

Lammert
Press Conference in Aruba found about jaw brought forward to 17.00 hours instead of 20.30 hours.

http://twitter.com/lammert

So in less than 1 hour?

If the press in the NL are correct that it is Dutch time then in 15 mins is what I just calculated.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:51:06 AM
Bio Journalist EénVandaag Television, AVRO

Lammert
Press Conference in Aruba found about jaw brought forward to 17.00 hours instead of 20.30 hours.

http://twitter.com/lammert

So in less than 1 hour?

If the press in the NL are correct that it is Dutch time then in 15 mins is what I just calculated.

So if some Dutch media are correct in about 10 minutes or so


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:52:01 AM
So what station on tv to tune into? 

Angie - Fox or Headline News would probably be on it first. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on November 23, 2010, 10:52:40 AM
GRRRRR.... have to leave for work....hopefully some typo-inflicted monkey will be able to call me when the news is announced?????? ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:52:55 AM
texasmom, Kimmy53, cubbeegirl, floridatreasure9, ksupon, Patriot, BlueKYGirl, Northern Rose, sb, megamooo, Magnolia, Maddie38, Dana, klaasend, Serenity, Mtnmom, wingnut, trimmonthelake, NM, tbivens, Frank, 4 Donks, Mary Ann, SunnyinTX, kkate, RoxiBalboa, BUCKSHOT, Robyn621, Chata, Irish Monkey, Tater, cadillac, darla, blah, 2NJSons_Mom, GoldieTX, yucatexan, Lifesong, CarolF, BooMonkey, MuffyBee, Monken, Angiex911dsptchr, kkthy, Alabamaanna, atlgirl, FloridaKatz, Puzzler, Judge Mental, Sdb, mz_maven, MalteseMom, GBMW, no rose colored glasses, akmom, jen3560, Babybear, tesfan, mojo (+ 1 Hidden) and 72 Guests are viewing this topic.

 ::MonkeyAngel::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Monken on November 23, 2010, 10:53:06 AM
Good Morning All! Just wanted to say before it gets crazy in here; I'm waiting along with everyone else,"Please Lord let this be Natalee". I so wish they could find all of her, but if this is all they have; its all they have.  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I'm monitoring all of the stations I can think of, who knows when this will actually be released. Love you all!  ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:54:29 AM
Headline News is saying any minute now!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:55:09 AM
Headline News is saying any minute now!

They will bring it live as soon as they get it!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BlueKYGirl on November 23, 2010, 10:55:29 AM
Hey, y'all...I'm here too, waiting anxiously and hoping the news brings a little bit of closure for Natalee's family.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: FloridaKatz on November 23, 2010, 10:56:01 AM
HL News reporting a News Conference will take place any time now.....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 10:56:18 AM
GRRRRR.... have to leave for work....hopefully some typo-inflicted monkey will be able to call me when the news is announced?????? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Just emailed the boss and said I am running late...haha...but seriously!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on November 23, 2010, 10:57:51 AM
Great,  I have a conference call in 3 minutes....aawwkkkk


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 10:58:13 AM
texasmom, Kimmy53, cubbeegirl, floridatreasure9, ksupon, Patriot, BlueKYGirl, Northern Rose, sb, megamooo, Magnolia, Maddie38, Dana, klaasend, Serenity, Mtnmom, wingnut, trimmonthelake, NM, tbivens, Frank, 4 Donks, Mary Ann, SunnyinTX, kkate, RoxiBalboa, BUCKSHOT, Robyn621, Chata, Irish Monkey, Tater, cadillac, darla, blah, 2NJSons_Mom, GoldieTX, yucatexan, Lifesong, CarolF, BooMonkey, MuffyBee, Monken, Angiex911dsptchr, kkthy, Alabamaanna, atlgirl, FloridaKatz, Puzzler, Judge Mental, Sdb, mz_maven, MalteseMom, GBMW, no rose colored glasses, akmom, jen3560, Babybear, tesfan, mojo (+ 1 Hidden) and 72 Guests are viewing this topic.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

It is wonderful to see so many familiar names....Hi to all.....and now we wait and pray....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 10:58:47 AM
GRRRRR.... have to leave for work....hopefully some typo-inflicted monkey will be able to call me when the news is announced?????? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Just emailed the boss and said I am running late...haha...but seriously!

Excellent idea cadillac!! Um, I'm running a bit late too, gotta make a pick up before heading into work!  ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 10:59:25 AM
Hey Everyone! :)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 10:59:33 AM
Marty Savage, CNN in Aruba, just reported they are waiting for some sort of announcement regarding the jawbone & Natalee's case. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on November 23, 2010, 11:00:30 AM
GRRRRR.... have to leave for work....hopefully some typo-inflicted monkey will be able to call me when the news is announced?????? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Just emailed the boss and said I am running late...haha...but seriously!


LOL...I am late as well....wish I could get a paycheck for everytime I have been late to work over this case...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:01:04 AM

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_Aruba05292005_23.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 11:01:06 AM
Come on!!!! Let's get to it now!!!! We WANT JUSTICE!!    ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sb on November 23, 2010, 11:01:24 AM
well here we go...



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 11:02:35 AM

Tick Tock, Deepak.

We are not going away.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 11:03:36 AM
Everyone think it's her?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:04:13 AM
This gal on HLN is an idiot.  Why on earth would Natalee's family be in Aruba for this announcement?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:04:15 AM
Marty Savage, CNN in Aruba, just reported they are waiting for some sort of announcement regarding the jawbone & Natalee's case. 

Next hour's segment just started.  Anchor just said that as soon as they get word of the announcement from the prosecutor's office, they will switch to Marty Savage in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: atlgirl on November 23, 2010, 11:05:08 AM
I feel sick.  I cannot even imagine what Dave and Beth are feeling.  Prayers to her family.  I hope they can feel the love coming from this board this morning.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 11:05:55 AM
This gal on HLN is an idiot.  Why on earth would Natalee's family be in Aruba for this announcement?

Hi Klaas!!!  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: NM on November 23, 2010, 11:06:09 AM
"prosecution" office (what a laugh) is probably wondering why all news people are there!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:06:36 AM
I switched to HLN....should I go back to CNN?   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 11:08:40 AM
I switched to HLN....should I go back to CNN?   

I'm on HLN, 2NJ.  I don't typically watch during the day, but it seems to me they've got 3rd string players here carrying the ball.  Doesn't bode well.  Where is Jinkasaurus?



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sandy leiva on November 23, 2010, 11:09:31 AM
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 ::MonkeyAngel::

It is wonderful to see so many familiar names....Hi to all.....and now we wait and pray....


Hi to all my monkey friends> So good to see us back here again. Came down for the rafters like Y;all just waiting for the news. Hope for closure for Natalees loved ones. sl


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: FloridaKatz on November 23, 2010, 11:10:43 AM
HL News seems to be constantly on the coverage more than the other channels ....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 11:10:45 AM
Hey Everyone! :)
Hi Willen so good to see you. I remember all your night streaming Vids for us ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:12:33 AM
I switched to HLN....should I go back to CNN?   

I'm on HLN, 2NJ.  I don't typically watch during the day, but it seems to me they've got 3rd string players here carrying the ball.  Doesn't bode well.  Where is Jinkasaurus?



I typically don't watch during the day, either, Lifesong.  I could swear that guy she was just talking to in Aruba referred to Beth as Beth Holloway Twitter a few minutes ago.    ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BlueKYGirl on November 23, 2010, 11:13:02 AM
It's so upsetting to see Beth pour her heart out to Joran, and then to watch him tell her HE needs more time. And she is so gracious to him. So sad. My heart breaks for her.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on November 23, 2010, 11:13:44 AM
Gotta go to work....call me Angie when it is announced...plz!
My prayers are with Natalees friends and family...either way they have been on an emotional roller coaster for the past 5 plus years. Never in my wildest dreams when I stumbled upon SM all those years ago would I have thought we would still be here today awaiting news....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:14:01 AM
I don't see a clip of the interview on their site but it's being aired on the local station.  Here is the link.  Perhaps they do not post it or they wait.  Hallie Jackson stated to us last night that they may be coming back after the jaw bone's DNA results are announced to get a post-interview.  Could be tonight.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/index.html

Channel 3 Eye Witness News (CT)


Thank you kkthy.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: akmom on November 23, 2010, 11:14:06 AM
Tim M on phone to HLN.  Dave has not heard anything


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 11:14:27 AM
Grrrrrrr, I can't wait any longer. I have to get to work. Sunny call me when you know. Hugs to all monkeys and especially the Holloway family.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 11:14:53 AM
Hey Everyone! :)
Hi Willen so good to see you. I remember all your night streaming Vids for us ::MonkeyWink::

Lol yep!! I still haven't fixed my mine! haha


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 11:14:59 AM
Headline News is saying any minute now!

They will bring it live as soon as they get it!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA   ::MonkeyWaa:: :smt089 :smt088 I don't have cable anymore ::MonkeyWaa:: I want to see them say it.....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 11:15:34 AM
I meant that I haven't fixed my mic! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: atlgirl on November 23, 2010, 11:15:40 AM
They STILL haven't told the family??!!??   ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::

So they have to sit and wait, watching like us?  Just when I thought Aruba couldn't sink any lower, they manage to.

At least Tim didn't ask for donations.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:16:09 AM
It's so upsetting to see Beth pour her heart out to Joran, and then to watch him tell her HE needs more time. And she is so gracious to him. So sad. My heart breaks for her.
Yep, ok, time's up. Natalee is back from the ocean for answers!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:16:21 AM
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::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 11:16:34 AM
Tim M on phone to HLN.  Dave has not heard anything

OMG.......WTF?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 23, 2010, 11:16:42 AM
Headline News is saying any minute now!

They will bring it live as soon as they get it!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA   ::MonkeyWaa:: :smt089 :smt088 I don't have cable anymore ::MonkeyWaa:: I want to see them say it.....

Scoot over Nut..........


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:16:48 AM
The Public Prosecutor of Aruba announced that persco the jaw can start any time # # Natalee Holloway Aruba # # jawbone
1 minute ago via web

http://twitter.com/johnvandertol


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 11:17:04 AM
Grrrrrrr, I can't wait any longer. I have to get to work. Sunny call me when you know. Hugs to all monkeys and especially the Holloway family.

Will do BOO.....

jjayinthemorning, Northern Rose, atlgirl, ksupon, sb, Magnolia, BoxerDawg, Mtnmom, akmom, WillenFan21, BlueKYGirl, rjdeer, KCJackie, Tater, yucatexan, texasmom, trimmonthelake, kkthy, Lifesong, Dana, Maddie38, Nut44x4, Lynnie76, Irish Monkey, floridatreasure9, pinetucky, cadillac, Mary Ann, cece, dappledoxie, RoxiBalboa, CarolF, sunshine12, BooMonkey, sandy leiva, Cappuccino, Sdb, Robyn621, NM, mom2eloise, GoldieTX, tbivens, Judge Mental, Helen Back, Dragnet, 2NJSons_Mom, Mere, Serenity, cubbeegirl, Groovy135, 4 Donks, Babybear, GrnLizrd, tesfan, Kimmy53, colleyville, annintex, cecilita, mickeybea, 7227, FloridaKatz, kkate, Patriot, dejasade, WesleyBear, Alabamaanna, Gypsy DD, megamooo, Mary, Chata, Terri, darla, BUCKSHOT, AZSunny and 109 Guests are viewing this topic.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 11:17:44 AM
FOXNEWS Cable  Phil Keaton is reporting live that the "authorities" are "dotting I's and crossing T's before results go out in mass email (WTF)  Aruba teasing it will come any minute.

Why the huge build up?   They know, it is or it isnt...still on boycott to Aruba & the Netherlands for that matter, will be for life.   If it isnt they are attempting to conceal it still, if it is they are hesitating cuz its gonna cuz a crapstorm.   I have no faith whatsoever in this government, could ya tell?  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 23, 2010, 11:18:08 AM
yucatexan, texasmom, WillenFan21, Northern Rose, rjdeer, trimmonthelake, kkthy, Lifesong, Dana, BlueKYGirl, SunnyinTX, Maddie38, jjayinthemorning, ksupon, Nut44x4, KCJackie, sb, Lynnie76, Irish Monkey, floridatreasure9, akmom, pinetucky, Mtnmom, BoxerDawg, cadillac, Mary Ann, cece, dappledoxie, RoxiBalboa, CarolF, sunshine12, BooMonkey, sandy leiva, Magnolia, Cappuccino, Sdb, Robyn621, NM, mom2eloise, GoldieTX, Roxie, tbivens, Judge Mental, Helen Back, atlgirl, Dragnet, 2NJSons_Mom, Mere, Serenity, cubbeegirl, Groovy135, 4 Donks, Babybear, GrnLizrd, tesfan, Kimmy53, colleyville, Tater, annintex, cecilita, mickeybea, 7227, FloridaKatz, kkate, Patriot, dejasade, WesleyBear, Alabamaanna, Gypsy DD, megamooo, Mary, Chata, Terri, darla, BUCKSHOT, klaasend, AZSunny and 107 Guests are viewing this topic.
 
::MonkeyAngel::


Where are Wreck and Kermit?  I need them here.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:18:44 AM
Friday, November 19, 2010
Natalee Holloway's mother issues statement on jawbone testing


Natalee’s mother released this statement today:

"There is no good answer, whether it is Natalee or whether it isn't. But no answer at all is the most unbearable. We appreciate everyone's loving care and concern and are anxious about the developments."

http://www.foxalabamanews.com/2010/11/natalee-holloways-mother-issues.html


 :smt060


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 11:18:58 AM
I switched to HLN....should I go back to CNN?   

I'm on HLN, 2NJ.  I don't typically watch during the day, but it seems to me they've got 3rd string players here carrying the ball.  Doesn't bode well.  Where is Jinkasaurus?



I typically don't watch during the day, either, Lifesong.  I could swear that guy she was just talking to in Aruba referred to Beth as Beth Holloway Twitter a few minutes ago.    ::MonkeyNoNo::
He did! I heard it as well. Really on top of the case, huh?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 11:19:09 AM
They STILL haven't told the family??!!??   ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::

So they have to sit and wait, watching like us?  Just when I thought Aruba couldn't sink any lower, they manage to.

At least Tim didn't ask for donations.

can we let today be about Natalee...please


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sb on November 23, 2010, 11:19:39 AM
If it WERE NOT her, you would think they wouldn't be going to all this trouble.

But with this bunch, who knows?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:19:42 AM
Tim M on phone to HLN.  Dave has not heard anything

OMG.......WTF?

Yes, Tim said that Dave told him a couple of hours ago that he had not heard anything in advance. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 11:20:20 AM
Aruba Makes me sick and I wish the WHOLE world knew everything the the monkeys did grrrrrrrrrr.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:20:25 AM
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::MonkeyAngel::


Where are Wreck and Kermit?  I need them here.

I've been missing them too!   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Mere on November 23, 2010, 11:20:55 AM
yucatexan, texasmom, WillenFan21, Northern Rose, rjdeer, trimmonthelake, kkthy, Lifesong, Dana, BlueKYGirl, SunnyinTX, Maddie38, jjayinthemorning, ksupon, Nut44x4, KCJackie, sb, Lynnie76, Irish Monkey, floridatreasure9, akmom, pinetucky, Mtnmom, BoxerDawg, cadillac, Mary Ann, cece, dappledoxie, RoxiBalboa, CarolF, sunshine12, BooMonkey, sandy leiva, Magnolia, Cappuccino, Sdb, Robyn621, NM, mom2eloise, GoldieTX, Roxie, tbivens, Judge Mental, Helen Back, atlgirl, Dragnet, 2NJSons_Mom, Mere, Serenity, cubbeegirl, Groovy135, 4 Donks, Babybear, GrnLizrd, tesfan, Kimmy53, colleyville, Tater, annintex, cecilita, mickeybea, 7227, FloridaKatz, kkate, Patriot, dejasade, WesleyBear, Alabamaanna, Gypsy DD, megamooo, Mary, Chata, Terri, darla, BUCKSHOT, klaasend, AZSunny and 107 Guests are viewing this topic.
 
::MonkeyAngel::


Hello everyone....and thanks to all who have kept this thread active all these years.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 11:21:15 AM
I hope Klaas is shutting off avatars and other stuff so we don't go on overload.....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: akmom on November 23, 2010, 11:21:53 AM
Jinkasaurus says any minute.  She is outside the prosecutor's office.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Mary Ann on November 23, 2010, 11:22:02 AM
Huge Monkey Hugs all around...........


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:23:04 AM
Jinkasauraus.  They are having connection issues


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 11:23:15 AM
yucatexan, texasmom, WillenFan21, Northern Rose, rjdeer, trimmonthelake, kkthy, Lifesong, Dana, BlueKYGirl, SunnyinTX, Maddie38, jjayinthemorning, ksupon, Nut44x4, KCJackie, sb, Lynnie76, Irish Monkey, floridatreasure9, akmom, pinetucky, Mtnmom, BoxerDawg, cadillac, Mary Ann, cece, dappledoxie, RoxiBalboa, CarolF, sunshine12, BooMonkey, sandy leiva, Magnolia, Cappuccino, Sdb, Robyn621, NM, mom2eloise, GoldieTX, Roxie, tbivens, Judge Mental, Helen Back, atlgirl, Dragnet, 2NJSons_Mom, Mere, Serenity, cubbeegirl, Groovy135, 4 Donks, Babybear, GrnLizrd, tesfan, Kimmy53, colleyville, Tater, annintex, cecilita, mickeybea, 7227, FloridaKatz, kkate, Patriot, dejasade, WesleyBear, Alabamaanna, Gypsy DD, megamooo, Mary, Chata, Terri, darla, BUCKSHOT, klaasend, AZSunny and 107 Guests are viewing this topic.
 
::MonkeyAngel::


We stand with Natalee Holloway.  We stand with Beth and with Dave and with Matt.  We stand with all of the Mountain Brook students who were with Natalee on that trip.  We stand with all of Natalee's family, her Step-Sisters, her Aunts, Uncles, and Cousins.  We stand for all of the people whose life Natalee touched, and with those whose life she was meant to touch.

Hear us, Aruba. 

We're only one page on the internet, there are many, many more of us. 

You will not disappear our people while you use our vacation dollars to prop up your criminal economy.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 11:23:16 AM
And another thing, why are they being cowards in announcing this via email instead of showing their faces in a live presser?    This is pure BS  ::CowboySmiley::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:23:20 AM
HLN has a producer insider the Public Ministry office to get a hard copy of the Press Release also.

They're still saying the statement will be released by email.

That's just not professional at all, IMO. ::MonkeyNoNo::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: akmom on November 23, 2010, 11:23:22 AM
Tim on phone again spoke to Dave 7 min ago still no word to him


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:23:28 AM
I have something else to be thankful for this Thanksgiving! An answer to the mystery in Aruba. A prayer for a family who needs closure. A step toward justice. And a forum of beautiful people who share good energy.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 11:24:07 AM
yucatexan, texasmom, WillenFan21, Northern Rose, rjdeer, trimmonthelake, kkthy, Lifesong, Dana, BlueKYGirl, SunnyinTX, Maddie38, jjayinthemorning, ksupon, Nut44x4, KCJackie, sb, Lynnie76, Irish Monkey, floridatreasure9, akmom, pinetucky, Mtnmom, BoxerDawg, cadillac, Mary Ann, cece, dappledoxie, RoxiBalboa, CarolF, sunshine12, BooMonkey, sandy leiva, Magnolia, Cappuccino, Sdb, Robyn621, NM, mom2eloise, GoldieTX, Roxie, tbivens, Judge Mental, Helen Back, atlgirl, Dragnet, 2NJSons_Mom, Mere, Serenity, cubbeegirl, Groovy135, 4 Donks, Babybear, GrnLizrd, tesfan, Kimmy53, colleyville, Tater, annintex, cecilita, mickeybea, 7227, FloridaKatz, kkate, Patriot, dejasade, WesleyBear, Alabamaanna, Gypsy DD, megamooo, Mary, Chata, Terri, darla, BUCKSHOT, klaasend, AZSunny and 107 Guests are viewing this topic.
 
::MonkeyAngel::


Where are Wreck and Kermit?  I need them here.

ROB????????????????  WHERE IS ROB???????????????


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:24:07 AM
Tim says he'll be back in Aruba if it is Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: akmom on November 23, 2010, 11:24:15 AM
And another thing, why are they being cowards in announcing this via email instead of showing their faces in a live presser?    This is pure BS  ::CowboySmiley::

BECAUSe they are cowards


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:24:25 AM
I'm going to have to change the channel.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 11:24:43 AM
Omg. I feel so bad for her parents that they haven't been told anything yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:24:55 AM
RTLNieuwsnl BREAKING NEWS: Found jaw is NOT http://tinyurl.com/3yft4fw # Natalee Holloway Natalee Holloway # # # jawbone Aruba

http://twitter.com/RTLNieuwsnl


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:24:59 AM
I hope Klaas is shutting off avatars and other stuff so we don't go on overload.....

Nope, not sure I can do it fast enough.  I think we'll be able to handle it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:25:44 AM
Dave was not there a week, unless the reports were lies.

I'll be quiet now.  


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 11:25:53 AM
Tim on phone again spoke to Dave 7 min ago still no word to him

Either way, there is one word for it CRUEL - totally irresponsible & in my mind purposefully causing this family more pain as if it isnt immeasurable


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 11:25:56 AM
I hope Klaas is shutting off avatars and other stuff so we don't go on overload.....

Good idea! I've been expecting a good boot out any second..:(


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: atlgirl on November 23, 2010, 11:26:13 AM
They STILL haven't told the family??!!??   ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::

So they have to sit and wait, watching like us?  Just when I thought Aruba couldn't sink any lower, they manage to.

At least Tim didn't ask for donations.

can we let today be about Natalee...please

Wow.  Really?  Today IS about Natalee.  Not the only one who made a Tim comment on this thread.   Sorry...spoke from my heart.  I'll leave it at that.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:26:39 AM
Jaw Aruba, Natalee Holloway
The jaw last week on the beach in Aruba was found, is not of the missing Natalee Holloway. As a study of Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI) in The Hague revealed.

The bone, according to persistent rumors of missing Natalee Holloway, but a study by the Dutch Forensic Institute found that the DNA does not match.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/11_november/23/binnenland/Uitkomst_onderzoek_kaak_Aruba_Holloway.xml


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 11:26:39 AM
RTLNieuwsnl BREAKING NEWS: Found jaw is NOT http://tinyurl.com/3yft4fw # Natalee Holloway Natalee Holloway # # # jawbone Aruba

http://twitter.com/RTLNieuwsnl

OHMYGAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: I dont feel tardy on November 23, 2010, 11:27:13 AM
How cruel it is to have her family hear the news (good or bad) with the rest of the world....that's just not right


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 11:27:13 AM
And another thing, why are they being cowards in announcing this via email instead of showing their faces in a live presser?    This is pure BS  ::CowboySmiley::

Yeah, it is. If it is her, then the family should be told prior......and if it isn't, they also should be told prior to a freakin mass email. UNEFFINGBELIEVABLE........oh wait...it is believable. It's Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: FloridaKatz on November 23, 2010, 11:27:40 AM
Remains are NOT Natalee Holloway.  I'm floored.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:27:43 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 11:27:43 AM
I'm here  (may be fired for this).  God Bless Natalee, Beth, Dave and Matt.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:27:49 AM
Holt Sheet. It's not her.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wingnut on November 23, 2010, 11:27:52 AM
NOT Natalee...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
o.k. now WHO IS IT?  


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: RoxiBalboa on November 23, 2010, 11:28:12 AM
Why all this hubbub? OMG, I'm so mad.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: akmom on November 23, 2010, 11:28:20 AM
I cannot believe this


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:28:38 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA

::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 11:29:21 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA



ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: I dont feel tardy on November 23, 2010, 11:29:38 AM
FBI should do their own exam/testing of it....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Mary Ann on November 23, 2010, 11:29:38 AM
I wish the FBI was testing....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 11:29:57 AM
OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:     It is not Natalee

OK so then who is it so they claim no one else has ever been missing or murdered....this is discouraging that we will ever find out the truth from this government, over a scum's sociopath son - Im livid! ::MonkeyMad::

"The jawbone found is not the remains of Natalee Holloway"   Explaining the process they went thru to determine.   I want that material sent to the family's attorney for their testing to confirm...yea yea like that would happen, here it would, there forget about it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 11:29:58 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA



OMG is all I can say.  THEN WHO IS IT?  Now they have 2 murdered young females on that island.  NOT GOOD.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:30:01 AM
They've bought the farm this time. This is such friggin BS.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 11:30:12 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA



WTF IS WRONG WITH THOSE SUBHUMANS!! The family should have been TOLD BEFORE THIS!!!! OMG NUKE THEM!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:30:16 AM
Jaw Aruba, Natalee Holloway
The jaw last week on the beach in Aruba was found, is not of the missing Natalee Holloway. As a study of Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI) in The Hague revealed.

The bone, according to persistent rumors of missing Natalee Holloway, but a study by the Dutch Forensic Institute found that the DNA does not match.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/11_november/23/binnenland/Uitkomst_onderzoek_kaak_Aruba_Holloway.xml

DNA low quality......dental records, etc. excluded it from being Natalee.  (short paraphrase of lengthy report read)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sb on November 23, 2010, 11:30:18 AM
glenda said so last night. she knew before Beth and Dave did, just like I expected.

There are not words I can use to describe what those people are down there, and in Holland.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: akmom on November 23, 2010, 11:30:19 AM
ARUBA, this does not end here.  Give her back.  WE will never give up


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:30:19 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA



ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: antunym on November 23, 2010, 11:30:26 AM
You have got to be f n kidding me!!! Really then who's is it Aruba???


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkate on November 23, 2010, 11:30:54 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA


Yeah - What she said!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 11:30:54 AM
I sort of kinda asked this before this morning, but so why doesn't TE go BACK to the trap of old?  What is up with that?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 11:30:56 AM
I cannot believe this

Same here. Boy Aruba really played that up.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: I dont feel tardy on November 23, 2010, 11:31:14 AM
I call BS


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:31:20 AM
I sort of kinda asked this before this morning, but so why doesn't TE go BACK to the trap of old?  What is up with that?

Good question


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:31:31 AM
glenda said so last night. she knew before Beth and Dave did, just like I expected.

There are not words I can use to describe what those people are down there, and in Holland.

I hate them all!   ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Robyn621 on November 23, 2010, 11:31:35 AM
OMG...I can't believe this. I DON'T believe this.  ::MonkeyMad:: I can't even put my thoughts together to type.  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:32:04 AM
glenda said so last night. she knew before Beth and Dave did, just like I expected.

There are not words I can use to describe what those people are down there, and in Holland.

I agree, sb.  Disgraceful.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sb on November 23, 2010, 11:32:41 AM
OK so now you scumbags have 2 murders to "solve"...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkthy on November 23, 2010, 11:32:41 AM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GrnLizrd on November 23, 2010, 11:32:43 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA



WTF IS WRONG WITH THOSE SUBHUMANS!! The family should have been TOLD BEFORE THIS!!!! OMG NUKE THEM!

OMG Im so with you they are so sick just...wow i dont even believe they did it this way. My prays with Dave and Beth. OMG i really feel sick


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Terri on November 23, 2010, 11:32:46 AM
I am so sorry.

But as others have stated, I can think of no other situation where the parents would not be given the info in a quiet, compassionate, private meeting.

Again,  I am sorry for the family's pain and needless roller coaster.

Terri


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:32:57 AM
Solicitor General Taco Stein

Jawbone belongs to a young female’
19 Nov, 2010, 13:25 (GMT -04:00)


Stein says that based on the result, the OM will ‘consider’ what will be made known to the media and that any relatives will be informed first. “You can imagine the Holloway-family is having a hard time now.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81262.php


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:33:42 AM
I'm curious to know Joran's reaction. Like Casey Anthony he was probably ordering donuts in prison and kicking back because he knew it wasn't her.

Tim isn't correct in saying that no one has ever been through the pain of the Holloways. Any parent feels the pain when something happens to their kid.

I believe there is a burial area in Aruba where murdered bodies are dumped. I know Natalee will show up eventually. It's just a matter of time.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 11:34:09 AM
Apparently Joran knew.......remember he laughed when he heard the bone being found.....

DIG UP THE SLOOT POOL Surround!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: FloridaKatz on November 23, 2010, 11:34:22 AM
glenda said so last night. she knew before Beth and Dave did, just like I expected.

There are not words I can use to describe what those people are down there, and in Holland.

I agree, sb.  Disgraceful.

I've been away from SM for too long.  Who is Glenda ?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:34:29 AM
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Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Patriot on November 23, 2010, 11:34:40 AM
Happy Thanksgiving from Aruba! ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:35:23 AM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(
Glad that you and your companions found the bone.
I wonder how many others wandered past it and didn't notice.
Well done beachcombers!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: antunym on November 23, 2010, 11:35:23 AM
Apparently Joran knew.......remember he laughed when he heard the bone being found.....

DIG UP THE SLOOT POOL Surround!!!

I was thinking the same thing nut! He laughed cause he knows otherwise!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 11:36:14 AM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Sister on November 23, 2010, 11:36:42 AM
NOT NATALEE

ARUBA SUCKS - BOYCOTT ARUBA



WTF IS WRONG WITH THOSE SUBHUMANS!! The family should have been TOLD BEFORE THIS!!!! OMG NUKE THEM!

These people make serial killlers look like choir boys . . . if anyone ever says Arbua and vacation, I think I will do more than smack them.  For the love of all that is good . . .


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:36:47 AM
Apparently Joran knew.......remember he laughed when he heard the bone being found.....

DIG UP THE SLOOT POOL Surround!!!

I was thinking the same thing nut! He laughed cause he knows otherwise!!
Well, now we have a baseline, eh?!!!



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WillenFan21 on November 23, 2010, 11:37:03 AM
Would Natalee's family able to get that bone & take it to the US to have a professional from there do some testing on it?

Edit-to correct sp. of name.  MB


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Robyn621 on November 23, 2010, 11:37:32 AM
It sure was mighty convenient that they made the point to mention that the DNA was degraded. It doesn't really surprise me but I still am ANGRY!!  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:38:03 AM
At the request of the Aruban Public Prosecutor's Office the Netherlands Forensic Institute has conducted forensic anthropological and DNA investigations on bone material, a piece of jawbone with a tooth. These investigations were executed simultaneously. Detailed examination by the NFI excludes the possibility that the bone material found in Aruba is that of Natalee Holloway. Exclusion after comparing dental records It was, first, necessary to establish that the bone material was in fact human material. This is the case. Thus the forensic anthropological investigation was expanded to include an investigation by forensic odontologists. Using the dental records of Natalee Holloway, such as the location of wisdom teeth and fillings, a comparison was made with the jaw bone recovered on Aruba. Based on these comparisons it could be excluded that the investigated bone material and molar came from Natalee Holloway. DNA testing Along with the forensic anthropological and odontological research, the NFI initiated a forensic DNA investigation. However, only a very small amount of DNA material was present and that was also of low quality. The bone appeared to have been exposed to various (weather) influences and proved to be porous. DNA researchers at the NFI therefore have applied extensive and highly sophisticated techniques to the DNA present in the bone to be examined. On the basis of the comparison of the dental records the possibility that the bone material came from Natalee Holloway was excluded, therefore further DNA testing has been stopped. There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile. However this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates. Given that, based on dental records, it can be ruled out that the bone fragment came from Natalee Holloway, the Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has decided not yet to carry out further research on the material. The prosecution will decide what further action will be taken to identify the bone material. Natalee Holloway Investigation The Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has been involved in an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway since her dissapearance. The case retains the constant attention from law enforcement

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24580-resultado-di-test-di-weso.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:38:20 AM
glenda said so last night. she knew before Beth and Dave did, just like I expected.

There are not words I can use to describe what those people are down there, and in Holland.

I agree, sb.  Disgraceful.

I've been away from SM for too long.  Who is Glenda ?

Julia Renfro - American traitor and looser


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Frank on November 23, 2010, 11:38:31 AM
I wish the jawbone was one of these idiots on HLN, it's intolerable.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BlueKYGirl on November 23, 2010, 11:38:37 AM
Would Natalie's family able to get that bone & take it to the US to have a professional from there do some testing on it?

My guess would be that Aruba will say it's part of an ongoing investigation, so they won't release it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 11:38:50 AM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.
We need a roll call of Urine's past girlfriends. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 11:38:52 AM
Wouldn't it be ironic if this bone was planted... so Joran will talk in his sleep.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 11:39:08 AM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.

Well Red, they'd probably dig through their box of unidentified body parts and send the FBI a substitute....or perhaps that was done before it was sent to Holland.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 11:39:08 AM
I am so NOT surprised...Could it possibly belong to that other girl that came up missing from that cruise ship years ago?Just a thought..Hmmmmm,Amy was her name?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 23, 2010, 11:39:22 AM
Tim Miller may be the best person in the world...

He dropped the ball on the last search, though, nearly three years ago.

Kinda weird hearing him talk about his buddies (Louis Schaeffer, etc) due to the fact that they were present for search of crab trap and allowed it (intentionally or unintentionally) to get whisked away by the Aruban authorities. It was on their watch, right under their collective noses.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:39:41 AM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.

I'm so angry right now.  If they knew it was not Natalee just say so.  Don't make a big deal, drum rolls.  Just say it's not Natalee and you are going to attempt to determine who it is.  I DON'T TRUST THEM, NONE OF THEM.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: KCJackie on November 23, 2010, 11:39:45 AM
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr319/kcjackie/avatars/bullshit_meter.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sb on November 23, 2010, 11:39:49 AM
glenda is Julia Renfro, one of the leading conspirators AFAIAK. She (using the term loosely) is a former WHORE who acts as a misinformation agent in Aruba.

So Joran laughed when he heard about the bone. He KNOWS what was done with her. I still believe they disposed of her a LOT more completely than just dumping her offshore. These people are PROS.

I would have been surprised if it had been her. But I was hoping for Beth's sake. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:40:30 AM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(

Your heart was in the right place.  You did the right thing and no one can take that from you.  It is the jawbone of someone, kkthy. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: NM on November 23, 2010, 11:40:38 AM
Another nail in aruba's coffin.

There are probably thousands of young caucasian females murdered in aruba!

F aruba


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 11:40:56 AM
I am so NOT surprised...Could it possibly belong to that other girl that came up missing from that cruise ship years ago?Just a thought..Hmmmmm,Amy was her name?

Amy Lynn Bradley - but she was lost in Curaco, not Aruba


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:41:38 AM


On the basis of the comparison of the dental records the possibility that the bone material came from Natalee Holloway was excluded, therefore further DNA testing has been stopped. There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile. However this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates. Given that, based on dental records, it can be ruled out that the bone fragment came from Natalee Holloway, the Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has decided not yet to carry out further research on the material.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 11:42:01 AM
glenda is Julia Renfro, one of the leading conspirators AFAIAK. She (using the term loosely) is a former WHORE who acts as a misinformation agent in Aruba.

So Joran laughed when he heard about the bone. He KNOWS what was done with her. I still believe they disposed of her a LOT more completely than just dumping her offshore. These people are PROS.

I would have been surprised if it had been her. But I was hoping for Beth's sake. 

former ::MonkeyHaHa::  once a ho always a ho


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 11:42:11 AM
I wish the jawbone was one of these idiots on HLN, it's intolerable.

I cannot stand JVM, that drama queen gets on my last nerve but yet I watch as many for any news - its not easy

Again, I pose the question...this government insists they have had no other missing or murdered persons so WHO IS IT THEN?   Why are they still protecting that scum & his sociopath son?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 11:42:19 AM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.

Exactly, Red.

We never did believe that nothing had ever gone wrong the twenty some-odd times Joran admitted to doing this before with "the pimps".

So how many are there?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: littlebuddy598 on November 23, 2010, 11:42:47 AM
I agree that A$$hole knew it wasn't Natalee. He LAUGHED. This is soooo FRICKIN SICK!!!! If he would just  tell what happened or what HE DID TO  HER. We could bring her home. He has NOTHING to loose now.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sb on November 23, 2010, 11:43:18 AM
They didn't even actually DO any DNA testing.

Excluded based on dental records alone.

I don't THIIIINK so...  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on November 23, 2010, 11:43:49 AM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(

Your heart was in the right place.  You did the right thing and no one can take that from you.  It is the jawbone of someone, kkthy. 
You certainly did  ::MonkeyAngel::  Not everyone would have done what you did.  My thoughts and prayers with Beth, Dave, and their family and friends  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:44:10 AM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.

I'm so angry right now.  If they knew it was not Natalee just say so.  Don't make a big deal, drum rolls.  Just say it's not Natalee and you are going to attempt to determine who it is.  I DON'T TRUST THEM, NONE OF THEM.

I'm with you Klaas!   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:44:42 AM
They didn't even actually DO any DNA testing.

Excluded based on dental records alone.

I don't THIIIINK so...  ::MonkeyMad::

Yup!  That is from the official statement.  I will post it again:

Official Press Release

At the request of the Aruban Public Prosecutor's Office the Netherlands Forensic Institute has conducted forensic anthropological and DNA investigations on bone material, a piece of jawbone with a tooth. These investigations were executed simultaneously. Detailed examination by the NFI excludes the possibility that the bone material found in Aruba is that of Natalee Holloway. Exclusion after comparing dental records It was, first, necessary to establish that the bone material was in fact human material. This is the case. Thus the forensic anthropological investigation was expanded to include an investigation by forensic odontologists. Using the dental records of Natalee Holloway, such as the location of wisdom teeth and fillings, a comparison was made with the jaw bone recovered on Aruba. Based on these comparisons it could be excluded that the investigated bone material and molar came from Natalee Holloway. DNA testing Along with the forensic anthropological and odontological research, the NFI initiated a forensic DNA investigation. However, only a very small amount of DNA material was present and that was also of low quality. The bone appeared to have been exposed to various (weather) influences and proved to be porous. DNA researchers at the NFI therefore have applied extensive and highly sophisticated techniques to the DNA present in the bone to be examined. On the basis of the comparison of the dental records the possibility that the bone material came from Natalee Holloway was excluded, therefore further DNA testing has been stopped. There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile. However this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates. Given that, based on dental records, it can be ruled out that the bone fragment came from Natalee Holloway, the Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has decided not yet to carry out further research on the material. The prosecution will decide what further action will be taken to identify the bone material. Natalee Holloway Investigation The Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has been involved in an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway since her dissapearance. The case retains the constant attention from law enforcement

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24580-resultado-di-test-di-weso.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 11:44:47 AM
GRRRRR.... have to leave for work....hopefully some typo-inflicted monkey will be able to call me when the news is announced?????? ::MonkeyHaHa::

 Nice hearing from yah ! Im glad the bird was alive.. ROFLMAO

I will call or text as soon as I hear !!  :)  ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:46:30 AM
No one from Prosecutors Office has come out.  They have only sent out the mass mail with the statement



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: FloridaKatz on November 23, 2010, 11:46:33 AM
OK, so putting my thinking cap back on.....when the jawbone washed up, Joran's first reaction was to laugh.  That means he knows where she is / what happened to her, and that also means that she was not put into the ocean on that side of the island.  The next step the Aruban authorities should take is to get a warrant, and do a complete excavation of the Van der Sloot yard.  That would never happen though.  So, someone would have to convince Joran's mom to do it out of the goodness of her heart.

I'm just thinking about how adamant Paulus was the first night Beth was on the island, about not letting authorities come onto his property.....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 11:46:51 AM
I am so NOT surprised...Could it possibly belong to that other girl that came up missing from that cruise ship years ago?Just a thought..Hmmmmm,Amy was her name?

Amy Lynn Bradley - but she was lost in Curaco, not Aruba

What about ocean currents Klass?It really isnt to far away.If I were Amy's family,I'd want it checked to see...
 73 miles ,117 kilometers, 63 nautical miles



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sb on November 23, 2010, 11:47:08 AM

"former" ::MonkeyHaHa::  once a ho always a ho


I realized that as soon as I typed it LOL. Can't edit though.

I am headed out... will return tonight and visit with our Night Crew.

"Let Us Continue..."


Edit:  Fixed post within quote.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:47:25 AM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.

I'm so angry right now.  If they knew it was not Natalee just say so.  Don't make a big deal, drum rolls.  Just say it's not Natalee and you are going to attempt to determine who it is.  I DON'T TRUST THEM, NONE OF THEM.

Exactly! They take every opportunity to twist the knife. Said it before, but I don't trust them any further than I can spit and I'm glad they're in that range.

Sadistic, sick bastards. BOYCOTT THE BONE LITTERED BEACHES OF ARUBA!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:48:01 AM
I am so NOT surprised...Could it possibly belong to that other girl that came up missing from that cruise ship years ago?Just a thought..Hmmmmm,Amy was her name?

Amy Lynn Bradley - but she was lost in Curaco, not Aruba


http://www.visitaruba.com/about-aruba/aruba-news/missing-persons/

Missing Persons

<snipped>

Amy Lynn Bradley *

Reward U.S. $260,000.00

Last Known Location:
Tuesday March 24, 1998 on board the cruise vessel Rhapsody of the Seas while en route from Oranjestad, Aruba to Willemstad, Curacao, Netherlands Antilles. Amy disappeared during the docking process in Curacao. Suspected Location: Unknown.

Amy may have been abducted and is possibly being held in South America or the Caribbean. A reward of over US $250,000 is being offered for Amy's safe return and a reward of US $50,000 for any information that leads to the apprehension and arrest of those responsible for Amy's disappearance.

Name: Amy Lynn Bradley
White Female
Race: Caucasian
Age: 23
Hair: Short Brown
Eyes: Green
Height: 5' 6"
Weight: 115 Pounds
Tattoos on:Left Shoulder, Right Ankle, Navel (Belly Button), Lower Back.
Hot line: +(804) 276 - 2204

F.B.I.: +(804) 777 - 3363

Relatives Main Line: +(804) 276 - 2204

Fax: +(804) 745 - 6133

Primary E-mail
Suspected Location: South America.

Website: Wetip

Website: Tggweb.com

Website: www.amybradley.net


Should you have any information you can email team Amy

back to Aruba News


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.visitaruba.com/about-aruba/aruba-news/missing-persons/


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 11:48:14 AM
They didn't even actually DO any DNA testing.

Excluded based on dental records alone.

I don't THIIIINK so...  ::MonkeyMad::

Yup!  That is from the official statement.  I will post it again:

Official Press Release

At the request of the Aruban Public Prosecutor's Office the Netherlands Forensic Institute has conducted forensic anthropological and DNA investigations on bone material, a piece of jawbone with a tooth. These investigations were executed simultaneously. Detailed examination by the NFI excludes the possibility that the bone material found in Aruba is that of Natalee Holloway. Exclusion after comparing dental records It was, first, necessary to establish that the bone material was in fact human material. This is the case. Thus the forensic anthropological investigation was expanded to include an investigation by forensic odontologists. Using the dental records of Natalee Holloway, such as the location of wisdom teeth and fillings, a comparison was made with the jaw bone recovered on Aruba. Based on these comparisons it could be excluded that the investigated bone material and molar came from Natalee Holloway. DNA testing Along with the forensic anthropological and odontological research, the NFI initiated a forensic DNA investigation. However, only a very small amount of DNA material was present and that was also of low quality. The bone appeared to have been exposed to various (weather) influences and proved to be porous. DNA researchers at the NFI therefore have applied extensive and highly sophisticated techniques to the DNA present in the bone to be examined. On the basis of the comparison of the dental records the possibility that the bone material came from Natalee Holloway was excluded, therefore further DNA testing has been stopped. There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile. However this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates. Given that, based on dental records, it can be ruled out that the bone fragment came from Natalee Holloway, the Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has decided not yet to carry out further research on the material. The prosecution will decide what further action will be taken to identify the bone material. Natalee Holloway Investigation The Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has been involved in an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway since her dissapearance. The case retains the constant attention from law enforcement

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24580-resultado-di-test-di-weso.html

BS and more BS    Hague smague, this test was NOT done extensively or thoroughly PERIOD - save for further DNA, BS - as if they care if any other person was murdered there, they live in a bubble for the almighty dollar of tourism...not this chick, nope many other islands of paradise to visit
BOYCOTT ARUBA FOR LIFE!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 11:48:36 AM
THIS MAKES ME SICK!!!!

I HATE THEM ALL

NO NATALEE  NO ARUBA

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS

 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:51:22 AM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(

Your heart was in the right place.  You did the right thing and no one can take that from you.  It is the jawbone of someone, kkthy. 

Holland has a way of doing that to you. They're better at it than Aruba. For a brief time I believed in Hans Mos.

God please help and Bless Dave and Beth. God please smite that island and all who torment Natalee's family.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Judge Mental on November 23, 2010, 11:51:39 AM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(

Your heart was in the right place.  You did the right thing and no one can take that from you.  It is the jawbone of someone, kkthy. 

Ditto! 

I'm beyond sad and disappointed



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:51:52 AM
They didn't even actually DO any DNA testing.

Excluded based on dental records alone.

I don't THIIIINK so...  ::MonkeyMad::

Yup!  That is from the official statement.  I will post it again:

Official Press Release

At the request of the Aruban Public Prosecutor's Office the Netherlands Forensic Institute has conducted forensic anthropological and DNA investigations on bone material, a piece of jawbone with a tooth. These investigations were executed simultaneously. Detailed examination by the NFI excludes the possibility that the bone material found in Aruba is that of Natalee Holloway. Exclusion after comparing dental records It was, first, necessary to establish that the bone material was in fact human material. This is the case. Thus the forensic anthropological investigation was expanded to include an investigation by forensic odontologists. Using the dental records of Natalee Holloway, such as the location of wisdom teeth and fillings, a comparison was made with the jaw bone recovered on Aruba. Based on these comparisons it could be excluded that the investigated bone material and molar came from Natalee Holloway. DNA testing Along with the forensic anthropological and odontological research, the NFI initiated a forensic DNA investigation. However, only a very small amount of DNA material was present and that was also of low quality. The bone appeared to have been exposed to various (weather) influences and proved to be porous. DNA researchers at the NFI therefore have applied extensive and highly sophisticated techniques to the DNA present in the bone to be examined. On the basis of the comparison of the dental records the possibility that the bone material came from Natalee Holloway was excluded, therefore further DNA testing has been stopped. There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile. However this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates. Given that, based on dental records, it can be ruled out that the bone fragment came from Natalee Holloway, the Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has decided not yet to carry out further research on the material. The prosecution will decide what further action will be taken to identify the bone material. Natalee Holloway Investigation The Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has been involved in an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway since her dissapearance. The case retains the constant attention from law enforcement

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24580-resultado-di-test-di-weso.html

Thanks Northern Rose.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:52:30 AM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:55:09 AM
Joran laughed when told of bones washing up so I conclude that Natalee is not somewhere that she could have washed up from.  Time to dig up that entire island starting with Anita's. 

What is Aruba going to do with this bone from a mystery person?   Does it go in a drawer in the hopes everyone forgets?

Interesting that Taco is not answering questions.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: FloridaKatz on November 23, 2010, 11:56:27 AM
Taco is on tv now...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 11:56:57 AM

Taco Stein is about to go live on HLN.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:57:06 AM
Taco is about to talk


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:57:47 AM
Joran laughed when told of bones washing up so I conclude that Natalee is not somewhere that she could have washed up from.  Time to dig up that entire island starting with Anita's. 

What is Aruba going to do with this bone from a mystery person?   Does it go in a drawer in the hopes everyone forgets?

Interesting that Taco is not answering questions.

Taco speaking.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:58:10 AM
He looks pretty happy considering there is a human bone on his happy island that he has no clue who it is from



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 11:58:51 AM
Taco - Too much mixed material to say if it is male or female it is human


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Maggie on November 23, 2010, 11:59:18 AM
This was all an Aruban publicity stunt. Think about how many times you have seen "Aruba" in the media...and of course the timing is right before the tourist season. To the general public, this "find" and the "attempt to solve the mystery" make Aruba look good. Everyone does not know the real story, so Aruba can play to them. Have you noticed all the recent advertisements to visit that hell hole?  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GabbyG on November 23, 2010, 11:59:24 AM
Good morning Monkeys, adding my prayers to the many others today, and holding hands with the Monkey on either side of me.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:59:45 AM
From what he's saying the experts will not even say male or female, only that it's from a young person.

Max DeVries?   ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: darla on November 23, 2010, 11:59:48 AM
OMG, what is there to be laughing about? I would like to smack him up side the head with my iron skillet.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 12:00:17 PM
Joran laughed when told of bones washing up so I conclude that Natalee is not somewhere that she could have washed up from.  Time to dig up that entire island starting with Anita's. 

What is Aruba going to do with this bone from a mystery person?   Does it go in a drawer in the hopes everyone forgets?

Interesting that Taco is not answering questions.

Taco speaking.

Molar in jawbone was a wisdom tooth and from Natalee's dental records it showed that Natalee's wisdom teeth had been removed.  Thus, they excluded it from being Natalee's.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 12:00:55 PM
Taco - the molar that was in the jaw bone was a WISDOM TOOTH and Natalee had her wisdom teeth taken out so we knew right there it was not Natalee.....


WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  So why ask for her dental records?  Why wait this long?  I hope he bursts into flames right now


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:01:03 PM
They are also checking for missing people from Curacao that might be a match.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 12:02:14 PM
Even if it had been Natalee's, Stein said it would not have helped the case because no cause of death could be determined. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 12:02:47 PM
They notified the Holloway's lawyer & he notified them - o come on, have they no shame.   Face them like decent human beings, regardless of the results - they cant because they know they have been covering this up all along


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 23, 2010, 12:03:48 PM
They are also checking for missing people from Curacao that might be a match.

Well then,maybe it's Amy....Probably not but worth testing for.JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nonesuche on November 23, 2010, 12:04:14 PM
smiling snarky Taco Stein admitted they knew from the wisdom tooth against Natalee's dental records excluded it was hers since THE WEEKEND.

So beyond horrible to do this to her family, to make them wait.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 12:04:25 PM
I am gonna PUKE listening to this asshole on fox news.. what a jo peck...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 12:05:19 PM
Joran laughed when told of bones washing up so I conclude that Natalee is not somewhere that she could have washed up from.  Time to dig up that entire island starting with Anita's. 

What is Aruba going to do with this bone from a mystery person?   Does it go in a drawer in the hopes everyone forgets?

Interesting that Taco is not answering questions.

Taco speaking.

Molar in jawbone was a wisdom tooth and from Natalee's dental records it showed that Natalee's wisdom teeth had been removed.  Thus, they excluded it from being Natalee's.

And when were they able to determine that?   ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 12:05:48 PM

Taco Stein
 Previous Statements



06/04/2010

Joran Van Der Sloot Sent To Peru To Face Murder Charges


Aruba's attorney general, Taco Stein, told the AP that island authorities had not been keeping track of the movements of van der Sloot, who was lately living mostly in the Netherlands.

He said he didn't know how the young man was supporting himself. "He's an ardent poker player and that means every now and again he wins too," Stein said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/04/joran-van-der-sloot-sent-_n_600691.html


06/08/2010

CNN LARRY KING LIVE - Murder Suspect Van Der Sloot Confesses


KING: Joining us by phone from Aruba is Taco Stein. He's the solicitor general of Aruba.  What, Taco, is your reaction to the arrest of Joran Van Der Sloot in Peru?

TACO STEIN, SOLICITOR GENERAL, ARUBA (via phone): Well, I'm glad for the people there that this happened. It was a terrible tragedy over there. And I think it's a good thing that they got him so fast.

KING: Have Aruban authorities spoken to anyone in Peru about this?

STEIN: Right this morning, my colleague that's still in charge of the Natalee Holloway case here has tried to be in contact with the prosecutor in Peru. She was not available at that time, but we left message and we are expecting a call back from them to share information and see how we can help each other.

KING: Do you want Peruvian authorities to question him about Natalee Holloway?

STEIN: That's -- would be a possibility, but I might imagine that they have enough on their own hands. So we have to see how we can work this out in a way that is profitable for both of us.

KING: Natalee's aunt said she didn't expect Aruba to try to extradite or anything, says he is going to be serving a number of years in Peru. Is that correct?

STEIN: Well, extradition -- there is no treaty between the Dutch kingdom and Peru as far as I'm aware that makes an extradition a possibility. So then it's up to the countries themselves to work a deal out. But I can imagine that Peru will be reluctant to let him go.

KING: Yes.

STEIN: In view of what has happened there.

KING: They've got him nailed, as they say.

STEIN: Yes. Sure. Yes.

KING: What is the status of the case -- the case of Van Der Sloot in Aruba right this minute?

STEIN: OK, well, if you look at it from what has happened recently, for us not much has changed. We are still in a position that we say we have done a very great number of land inquiry which didn't work out, and we still are willing and ready to pick up on new lines of inquiry or new information that needs to be investigated.

But at this moment, they are not yet there. But the new case might bring something about. We've heard about the laptop and that laptop might or might not -- we don't know that yet of course -- information that might be useful for us.

KING: To your knowledge, when was the last time he was in Aruba?

STEIN: He was in Aruba until recently, somewhere in May.

KING: Now this is puzzling. What was Aruba's awareness of, involvement in this May 10th sting operation against Joran in connection with an alleged extortion of money in which he would get money and give you information about Natalee?

STEIN: Well, to begin with, I don't know if this would be a real sting operation, that's one. But that's not up to me to decide. Two, if that was an American investigation done by the American authorities, and we were only involved in the investigation in a support of capacity.

So we helped in the investigation, but it was not our investigation. The crime was an American crime perpetrated on American soil against an American citizen.

KING: So you don't know anything about money exchanging hands?

STEIN: Not more than I've heard, and I know that that was the story behind what was happening was that as far as I get it that Joran Van Der Sloot asked for money to show the place the remains of Natalee were buried.

KING: Without admitting that he harmed her.

STEIN: Of course.

KING: Yes. Have you been keeping track of him?

STEIN: In a part of the help in the investigation was keeping track of him, yes.

KING: As you look back, were there mistakes made by Aruban authorities?

STEIN: You mean in this last part of the investigation?

KING: Yes.

STEIN: I don't think so, because we were just supporting the investigation.

KING: How about the early part?

(CROSSTALK)

STEIN: -- how it worked.

KING: How about the early part?

STEIN: That is very difficult to say for me. I wasn't there when the investigation took place. Only was appointed to Aruba recently about six months ago. And it's a very complex and big file, and I cannot say I know the whole file.

But I know about the early start of the investigation, 2005 until, say, 2009. I was on St. Maarten so I'm not aware of that.

KING: OK.

STEIN: I don't know -- I'm not aware of the details of that.


KING: Thank you, Taco. Taco Stein, solicitor general of Aruba.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/08/lkl.01.html


06/11/2010

Aruban Authorities on Van der Sloot Comments


Aruban Solicitor General Taco Stein says that they are reaching out to Peruvian authorities to discuss the reported statement and that if Van der Sloot did, in fact, say he will tell investigators where the body is, the Arubans will weigh the information to see if they can act on it.  "We are in the process of reaching out to them," Stein said of Peruvian investigators, "as you can understand they are very busy with their case... it's very hard to get the proper person." 

Stein reports that there is no formal treaty between the Dutch Kingdom, which the island nation of Aruba is a part of, and Peru.  Thus, he says it would be difficult for Aruban investigators to request Van der Sloot be brought to Aruba.  Without speculating on the veracity of the reports regarding Van der Sloot, Stein says if they are true it is more likely that Aruba would send a small team of investigators to Peru.  "We can ask the Peruvian authorities if we can come there and interrogate him on this point and see what we can do on the information he gives," said Stein.  Since it is highly unlikely there is any trace evidence related to the Holloway case in Peru, Stein says only one or two investigators familiar with the Holloway case would be sent and that such a team could be ready to go within a day of being granted permission.

As for the investigation on the island of Aruba, Stein says there have been no new developments in the Holloway case since the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores last month in Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
Taco - even if this bone would have been Natalee's this would not have brought us a step closer because the material present would not have given us any leads into the cause of her death. So quite frankly it would not have mattered anything more.

(I rewound to get his words)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 12:06:37 PM
smiling snarky Taco Stein admitted they knew from the wisdom tooth against Natalee's dental records excluded it was hers since THE WEEKEND.

So beyond horrible to do this to her family, to make them wait.



 HI None !  This is sooo sad and awful..  :(


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sandy leiva on November 23, 2010, 12:08:04 PM
Joran laughed when told of bones washing up so I conclude that Natalee is not somewhere that she could have washed up from.  Time to dig up that entire island starting with Anita's. 

What is Aruba going to do with this bone from a mystery person?   Does it go in a drawer in the hopes everyone forgets?

Interesting that Taco is not answering questions.

Taco speaking.


Joran will never tell,but his actions the laughing he did when he heard the media say the jawbone could have been Natalees does. I pray someone on that island will be diging for a new garden,pool or home will uncover something that leads to Natalee. Anita if you know what happened for the sake of decency and all that is good, do your monster a favor and set his soul free. Something the monster is unable to do himself. Be his mom teach him right from wrong. Its never too late to do the right thing. Do it Anita it will end your misery also.sl


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Cappuccino on November 23, 2010, 12:08:34 PM
smiling snarky Taco Stein admitted they knew from the wisdom tooth against Natalee's dental records excluded it was hers since THE WEEKEND.

So beyond horrible to do this to her family, to make them wait.



He's toying with this family too, no one smiles like a cat that swallowed the canary without being cold & vengeful...totally disgusting


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: windy city on November 23, 2010, 12:08:46 PM
Heartless Bastards.  Thats really I can think of to say right now. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Maggie on November 23, 2010, 12:09:59 PM
Everyone was played, that's why they're laughing.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 12:11:22 PM
Tim Miller on.. saying he hasnt talked to Dave since results came out.. cant reach him.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 12:11:44 PM
Now I want Les Levine to burst into flames.  What an arse wipe!  The bone has cause a lynch mob mentality against Joran and Aruba...WTF!

Levine - Joran is not the same Joran we met 5 years ago.  What we have uncovered in the last 5 years is there is NO physical evidence linking Joran to Natlee's disappearance.  Aruban Authorities tried to get physical evidence that linked Joran to Natalee's death and they were not able to and that is a fact. We have found nothing to indicate Joran had anything to do with Natalee's disappearance.  HE just left her on the beach and that was a bad thing to do.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 12:11:49 PM
Tim Miller on.. saying he hasnt talked to Dave since results came out.. cant reach him.

Tim on Fox news Via phone..


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 12:13:00 PM
My heart and prayers are with Natalee Holloway ... Beth, Dave and the family of Natalee.

I cannot even begin to imagine the roller-coaster of emotion that they must all be going through.

God Bless you all.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:13:37 PM
I'm glad Dave sent a message of his own.

Tim Miller should NEVER be a spokesperson for him.

JMO



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:16:08 PM
My heart and prayers are with Natalee Holloway ... Beth, Dave and the family of Natalee.

I cannot even begin to imagine the roller-coaster of emotion that they must all be going through.

God Bless you all.


Hear, hear!   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 12:16:11 PM
God Bless whomevers jawbone it is and their family  IF anyone ever finds out.
IMO even if it WAS Natalees.. the azzholes would deny it anyhow..  ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 12:16:15 PM
From what he's saying the experts will not even say male or female, only that it's from a young person.

Max DeVries?   ::MonkeyShocked::

Now we know it was a wisdom tooth, even if they can't figure out if it's male or female should rule Max out....not old enough for wisdom teeth.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Monken on November 23, 2010, 12:16:18 PM
I am beyond saddened  ::MonkeyNoNo:: i wanted this to be Natalee so bad! I'm so sorry Dave, Beth & all of your families. I will continue to pray that justice will come one day. One day!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sandy leiva on November 23, 2010, 12:17:09 PM
Joran laughed when told of bones washing up so I conclude that Natalee is not somewhere that she could have washed up from.  Time to dig up that entire island starting with Anita's. 

What is Aruba going to do with this bone from a mystery person?   Does it go in a drawer in the hopes everyone forgets?

Interesting that Taco is not answering questions.

Taco speaking.


Joran will never tell,but his actions the laughing he did when he heard the media say the jawbone could have been Natalees does. I pray someone on that island will be diging for a new garden,pool or home will uncover something that leads to Natalee. Anita if you know what happened for the sake of decency and all that is good, do your monster a favor and set his soul free. Something the monster is unable to do himself. Be his mom teach him right from wrong. Its never too late to do the right thing. Do it Anita it will end your misery also.sl


Heres another point ill bring out. According to the hague and Taco Stien, they knew it wasnt Natalee because her molars were pulled out long ago and is confirmed by dental records then why all the hoopla. Natalees parents would know if her molars were pulled out after all they have and are aware of her dental records as well as her dentist would be.  So why all the drama from aruba, why include the family in this cruel hoax. Why aruba why???????


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 12:17:40 PM
Is there a link to see the interview with the couple that found the jaw bone?  TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 12:20:58 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 12:21:29 PM
Aruba/Holland are aware that many Americans believe that there was a cover up in the Natalee Holloway case to protect Joran van der Sloot.  To avoid any doubt in regards to the integrity of the testing in regards to the jawbone ... why was the FBI not invited to observe?

Something akin to the contents of the trap ... contents that were afforded unchallenged by John Silvetti to the Aruban divers ... we will never know if the jawbone find was Natalee Holloway case related.

Janet

+++++++


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman
:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities.  They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site.  Never heard another word about it.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sylvia on November 23, 2010, 12:21:35 PM

My heart and prayers go out to the Holloway, Twitty families.  This
is just so cruel.  I know I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach, I can't
imagine how they are feeling - AGAIN.
This will certainly add more bad publicity for Aruba and remind people
how they continue to botch the case.

CBS42 Birmingham just had the report...they had Jossy on the phone...

Tim Miller said that he has been in constant contact with Dave and
Dave is cautiously optimistic.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkthy on November 23, 2010, 12:22:43 PM
My heart and prayers are with Natalee Holloway ... Beth, Dave and the family of Natalee.

I cannot even begin to imagine the roller-coaster of emotion that they must all be going through.

God Bless you all.

I agree.  My heart breaks for them.  I don't even know the family and I feel exhausted from the anticipation and my emotions are all over the place.  I can't even IMAGINE HOW THE HOLLOWAY FAMILY FEELS. :(   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 12:23:12 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.

 ::rhino::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:23:27 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.

I think Renho and the others get their information from Ann Angela.  I may be wrong, but I've thought that for a while now.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 12:24:15 PM
 ::MonkeyNoNo::   I have to step away for a while.  Will be back, later. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 12:26:20 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.
This is why the most important quality in life is credibility. Many other things can be overlooked and made up for, but credibility can never be. When trust is lost, where do you go?

No one trusts Aruba or a forensic test done by people where there has been nothing but a concerted effort from the outset to obstruct justice. Then they put on this cherade of a press conference? I would not smile and laugh to much Aruba ... the joke just might be on you.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 12:26:39 PM
kkthy - What Aruba (the prosecutors office) has done now is made most of us HATE ARUBA even more.  They could have simply come out and said it was not Natalee.  Why make such a big deal out of it if it was not Natalee.  They knew this weekend it was not Natalee.  It is just this type of cruel thing Aruba continues to do to the Holloway family.  It is because of people protecting tourism and Joran van der Sloot that now Stephany Flores is dead.  When will it all end?  I say louder than ever BOYCOTT ARUBA - IT IS NOT A SAFE PLACE.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Curly on November 23, 2010, 12:26:56 PM
@ work on phone. SOBs. They should all go to hell


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 12:26:57 PM
Is there a link to see the interview with the couple that found the jaw bone?  TIA

I don't see a clip of the interview on their site but it's being aired on the local station.  Here is the link.  Perhaps they do not post it or they wait.  Hallie Jackson stated to us last night that they may be coming back after the jaw bone's DNA results are announced to get a post-interview.  Could be tonight.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/index.html

Channel 3 Eye Witness News (CT)



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: akmom on November 23, 2010, 12:27:17 PM
::MonkeyNoNo::   I have to step away for a while.  Will be back, later. 

Bye, I am going to also.  I have been here all night, sometimes asleep but mostly not.  Between this and what is going on in Korea, my nerves are shot. 

Note to Aruba:  We will be watching you, we will wait as long as it takes.

Boycott Aruba.....FOREVER!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 12:29:30 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.
This is why the most important quality in life is credibility. Many other things can be overlooked and made up for, but credibility can never be. When trust is lost, where do you go?

No one trusts Aruba or a forensic test done by people where there has been nothing but a concerted effort from the outset to obstruct justice. Then they put on this cherade of a press conference? I would not smile and laugh to much Aruba ... the joke just might be on you.

 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 12:30:05 PM
Taco said there was too much "mixed material" to determine if the bone and wisdom tooth came from a male or female.

So pretty much Aruba needs to find a missing hermaphrodite with wisdom teeth and they can say they have solved at least one missing person case.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: sandy leiva on November 23, 2010, 12:32:07 PM
Taco - the molar that was in the jaw bone was a WISDOM TOOTH and Natalee had her wisdom teeth taken out so we knew right there it was not Natalee.....


WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  So why ask for her dental records?  Why wait this long?  I hope he bursts into flames right now



                   Arubans perpetrating cruel hoax for this media event.If you knew why why put this grieving family threw this.This will not win you any more publicity for promoting island fun and safety in the sun.ILL BE SCREAMING FROM THE RAFTERS

                                 BOYCOTT ARUBA- YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT.
BOYCOTT ARUBA BOYCOTT ARUBA BOYCOTT ARUBA BOYCOTT ARUBA BOYCOTT ARUBA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 12:33:46 PM
Taco said there was too much "mixed material" to determine if the bone and wisdom tooth came from a male or female.

So pretty much Aruba needs to find a missing hermaphrodite with wisdom teeth and they can say they have solved at least one missing person case.



well how convenient   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 23, 2010, 12:34:37 PM
They knew it wasn't Natalee's - by the tooth being a wisdom tooth - something that should have been quite obvious to any scientist. 

Something stinks to high heaven here.  I have a feeling it was Natalee's and it has taken them this long to figure out whether to reveal that or not.

They also revel in the fact that Aruba was tops in news again.  Perhaps they think this will bring in more tourism.  What a bunch of MORONS.

I am praying for Natalee's family - this has got to be gut wrenching - once again.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 12:44:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np0solnL1XY


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 12:44:55 PM
I hope the NFI realizes that this huge show Aruba just orchestrated makes them look like idiots as well. Jaw bone had a wisdom tooth and the NFI asked for dental records of Natalee so would have known in minutes of receiving the dental records that it was not Natalee.  Wisdom teeth do not grow back , not even if the jaw has been submerged in the ocean and washes up on one happy island. How credible does the NFI look in their competency by Aruba dragging this out for over a week.  They could have made the announcement last week and kept testing the bone or whatever they were going with it.     


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 12:54:01 PM
Is there a link to see the interview with the couple that found the jaw bone?  TIA

I don't see a clip of the interview on their site but it's being aired on the local station.  Here is the link.  Perhaps they do not post it or they wait.  Hallie Jackson stated to us last night that they may be coming back after the jaw bone's DNA results are announced to get a post-interview.  Could be tonight.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/index.html

Channel 3 Eye Witness News (CT)



thanks janet ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 01:07:05 PM

The dental records that the FBI sent electronically to Holland last Wednesday ... would have immediately revealed that the jawbone find was not Natalee Holloway case related.  Why was the family put through one week of not knowing ... one week of H---?

Janet

++++++

Dental Records

FBI: Aruba studying missing teen's dental records
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:30 pm

 
Paul Daymond, an FBI spokesman in Birmingham, Alabama, said the agency sent some records electronically Wednesday and shipped the remaining dental impressions. It is unclear when those would arrive.

http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/news/world/article_0074a3f2-3def-5a9a-a652-c24cc179caa9.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 01:10:16 PM

thanks janet ::MonkeyKiss::


Thank YOU!!

 :smt060

Today ... I needed that smooch.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: antunym on November 23, 2010, 01:17:12 PM
Still the only true lead we all have is Tim Miller saying that Natalee's clothing appeared to be in that crab trap... Joran saying they dumped her in the ocean... Kyle Kingman bringing all the contents of the trap out in a forum.... and Aruba LE taking away the contents with silence afterwards.

I believe that Paulus helped dispose of her in the ocean and he did it in a manner that would prevent any remains from floating up. He was involved in the law so he knew how to go about this to protect his son. 

I at one point thought that Joran might not know the location of Natalee's remains but after hearing about him laughing at this latest development... I'm positive he knows where they are located.

Who was in that trap Aruba? Who's jaw is it Aruba?  Do you not care at all about your economy? 

And Glenda aka Renho think she's so smart... well quit being such a smart a$$ and tell them to return Natalee since you seem to act like you know people behind the scenes.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 01:23:51 PM

Official Press Release

At the request of the Aruban Public Prosecutor's Office the Netherlands Forensic Institute has conducted forensic anthropological and DNA investigations on bone material, a piece of jawbone with a tooth. These investigations were executed simultaneously. Detailed examination by the NFI excludes the possibility that the bone material found in Aruba is that of Natalee Holloway. Exclusion after comparing dental records It was, first, necessary to establish that the bone material was in fact human material. This is the case. Thus the forensic anthropological investigation was expanded to include an investigation by forensic odontologists. Using the dental records of Natalee Holloway, such as the location of wisdom teeth and fillings, a comparison was made with the jaw bone recovered on Aruba. Based on these comparisons it could be excluded that the investigated bone material and molar came from Natalee Holloway. DNA testing Along with the forensic anthropological and odontological research, the NFI initiated a forensic DNA investigation. However, only a very small amount of DNA material was present and that was also of low quality. The bone appeared to have been exposed to various (weather) influences and proved to be porous. DNA researchers at the NFI therefore have applied extensive and highly sophisticated techniques to the DNA present in the bone to be examined. On the basis of the comparison of the dental records the possibility that the bone material came from Natalee Holloway was excluded, therefore further DNA testing has been stopped. There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile. However this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates. Given that, based on dental records, it can be ruled out that the bone fragment came from Natalee Holloway, the Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has decided not yet to carry out further research on the material. The prosecution will decide what further action will be taken to identify the bone material. Natalee Holloway Investigation The Office of the Public Prosecutor in Aruba has been involved in an investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway since her dissapearance. The case retains the constant attention from law enforcement

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/24580-resultado-di-test-di-weso.html

According to Taco Stein's statement heard this morning on HLN ... factors dictated that gender could not be determined through forensic testing.  However ... according to Nancy Grace's forensic anthropoligist guest ... gender can be determined by observation.

Janet

+++++


Tests may soon tell if bone in Holloway case is human
Nancy Grace
By the CNN Wire


The prosecutor said the bone was initially examined by a forensic expert in Aruba, who determined the bone was from a young woman. But Blanken cautioned the final determination would be made by the forensic institute in the Netherlands.

"I'm happy that it's human. And the initial finding is that it's from a young woman, so maybe we will be able to solve this case. I hope so. But we will wait to see what the findings are," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/17/aruba.bone.found/


NANCY GRACE
Natalee`s Mother Confronts Joran in Prison
Aired November 17, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: With us right now, Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, Florida Gulf Coast University. She`s joining us from Ft. Myers via Skype. Heather, explain to me again how is it that you can determine that this is not only human but it is a white female young adult?

HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Nancy, the way that we do that, first to determine that it`s female, is we`re going to look at the chin area. And as you can see on this example of a lower jawbone that I`m holding here, in females, right on the midline -- which would be here in my own face -- we tend to have a pointier chin. In males, the chin itself tends to be very broad, where you have two little bumps on either side of that midline.

The other thing that these forensic experts are doing is they`re evaluating the age of the jawbone by looking at something like this, the dental development. Here what we can see is that all teeth form first by the crown, then by the roots. We know how to age somebody by the development of those teeth relative to one another.

We can also tell the ancestry or race (INAUDIBLE) or bumps (INAUDIBLE) on those teeth. So it sounds to me, with the ability of these forensic experts to come out and say that they have a female, that it`s a young adult, and that this person is most likely white or of European ancestry, that they have a jaw that they either have the lower jaw or upper jaw and that it is relatively intact.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/17/ng.01.html



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: can on November 23, 2010, 01:23:54 PM
kkthy -

I'd like to thank you and your husband and friends for doing the right thing.

There is someone who waits to be identified.  Who deserves to be identified.
Perhaps there is another family longing to know if this is their loved one.

I hope in time we will learn, who that is.

Good and decent people are rare and you are among them.

God bless you and your family and the  Beulieu's (sp)

 ::MonkeyAngel::

and God bless Natalee and her family.

 ::MonkeyAngel::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 01:24:15 PM
And another thing, why are they being cowards in announcing this via email instead of showing their faces in a live presser?    This is pure BS  ::CowboySmiley::

Cap - I think it is because they do not have one professional, decent, non-coward on the whole island to do it. Aruba is where hacks go that could not make it in their old countries. They slowly marinate themselves into insanity with too much alcohol and way too much sun. To make themselves feel better, they spend their days hanging around other hacks, boasting about
their latest trivial accomplishments. Aruba is substandard. I know you know all that. I just like sayin...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 01:28:36 PM
Aruba could have found Amelia Earhart, D.B. Cooper or Jimmy Hoffa based on their presser this morning.  Wonder if they are going to spin a wheel or play pin the jaw bone on the missing when they announce who it belongs to?    :smt078   :smt078   :smt078


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: can on November 23, 2010, 01:30:28 PM

thanks janet ::MonkeyKiss::


Thank YOU!!

 :smt060

Today ... I needed that smooch.

Janet

Here's another one for you Janet  ::MonkeyKiss::

and many more for those that need it.
 ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 01:34:54 PM
Thanks Can

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 01:35:49 PM
She's not in the ocean. Joran's reaction said it all. That must mean that she's still at Joran's house, buried in the yard.
Paulus and Joran took the boat out to dispose of evidence, like shovels, and clothes, and whatever else might have had DNA on it.

Was the concrete slab at the house ever investigated?
Did K2 vacuum sand out of the car within a week of the disappearance? It's quite possible they didn't know she was dead when they dropped her off at Joran's house.
New theory time.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 01:37:36 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 01:38:20 PM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.

I'm so angry right now.  If they knew it was not Natalee just say so.  Don't make a big deal, drum rolls.  Just say it's not Natalee and you are going to attempt to determine who it is.  I DON'T TRUST THEM, NONE OF THEM.

I think Rooba is under the impression that ANY PUBLICITY is good publicity. Which, nothing could be further from the truth. It`s been proven time and time again... there is a melting point.

Oh Beth and Dave - I`m so sorry... but I know you didn`t let your guard down.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 01:39:31 PM
She's not in the ocean. Joran's reaction said it all. That must mean that she's still at Joran's house, buried in the yard.
Paulus and Joran took the boat out to dispose of evidence, like shovels, and clothes, and whatever else might have had DNA on it.

Was the concrete slab at the house ever investigated?
Did K2 vacuum sand out of the car within a week of the disappearance? It's quite possible they didn't know she was dead when they dropped her off at Joran's house.
New theory time.

I think we've discussed all that you've brought up over the last five and half plus years.  The only theory I have now is Aruba knew, Aruba knows and Aruba sucks.  Boycott Aruba.  JMHO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 01:40:06 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Exactly. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 01:41:05 PM
What Muffy said:    :smt041 :smt038


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: AZSunny on November 23, 2010, 01:41:08 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I knew what to expect after all these years, but it still makes me so sad. I hate that place.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 01:41:39 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/NoTour.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 01:43:41 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I knew what to expect after all these years, but it still makes me so sad. I hate that place.

Just when you think something can't get any sadder (Natalee's case) and any sorrier (Aruba) it comes back around and gets you all over again.   ::MonkeyNoNo::  Bless Natalee and those who love her.  ::MonkeyAngel::  Boycott Aruba Forever!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 01:45:03 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)

I needed that, Klaas!  ::CowboySmiley::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 01:45:34 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)

I needed that, Klaas!  ::CowboySmiley::

Oh yeah!! 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 01:45:48 PM
Tim Miller on.. saying he hasnt talked to Dave since results came out.. cant reach him.

Tim on Fox news Via phone..

I hope Dave doesn`t take his call. Find Natalee by Christmas... dude, what the heck are you thinking? Someone should smack a fart out of you for that beaut!!! Better yet, go look in the
mirror today and do it to yourself. You should know better.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 01:47:22 PM
She's not in the ocean. Joran's reaction said it all. That must mean that she's still at Joran's house, buried in the yard.
Paulus and Joran took the boat out to dispose of evidence, like shovels, and clothes, and whatever else might have had DNA on it.

Was the concrete slab at the house ever investigated?
Did K2 vacuum sand out of the car within a week of the disappearance? It's quite possible they didn't know she was dead when they dropped her off at Joran's house.
New theory time.

I think we've discussed all that you've brought up over the last five and half plus years. 
 The only theory I have now is Aruba knew,
Aruba knows and Aruba sucks. 
 Boycott Aruba.  JMHO

Amen!  Amen!! AMEN!!!  AMEN!!!! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 23, 2010, 01:48:30 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)

Oh YEAH!!!! ::MonkeyCheer4::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 23, 2010, 01:49:02 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.

I believe all that you believe, CBB.

But I also believe Joran laughed when he heard of the jaw bone being found - because he knew ALE had recovered her remains from that cage, and therefore thought this couldn't belong to Natalee.

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: starwynn on November 23, 2010, 01:51:55 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Absolutely, positively infuriating.  And to watch Stein with his car-salesman smile - just made me want to puke. Inappropriate, so inappropriate.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on November 23, 2010, 01:55:08 PM
Seeing as how that took weeks to identify a wisdom tooth, and they already had Beth's DNA from long ago (which would/should have been kept in an open file), it makes me wonder:  Did they know this was Natalee upon receipt but they could not admit it for fear of showing how incompetent their baby island and the Hague are, and so they had to wait for another young Caucasian jawbone to arrive or to be found, so that if Beth requested this for AFIP, they would have another ready for shipment to AFIP if requested by Beth's family members.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 01:55:41 PM
It's not Natalee?

Just how many missing white girls are there is Aruba? So who the hell is it? Was Joran Van der Sloot busy with another girl?

I would want that jawbone tested by the FBI. Sorry, do not trust the Netherlands.

Claiming they have no idea who's jaw bone it is.

UNREAL.

I'm so angry right now.  If they knew it was not Natalee just say so.  Don't make a big deal, drum rolls.  Just say it's not Natalee and you are going to attempt to determine who it is.  I DON'T TRUST THEM, NONE OF THEM.

Natalee's wisdom teeth had been extracted when they saw her dental records they knew  on Friday it was not her. So why this BS I HATE ARUBA YOU SUCK


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkthy on November 23, 2010, 01:57:00 PM
kkthy -

I'd like to thank you and your husband and friends for doing the right thing.

There is someone who waits to be identified.  Who deserves to be identified.
Perhaps there is another family longing to know if this is their loved one.

I hope in time we will learn, who that is.

Good and decent people are rare and you are among them.

God bless you and your family and the  Beulieu's (sp)

 ::MonkeyAngel::

and God bless Natalee and her family.

 ::MonkeyAngel::



Can,
Thank you so much.  The news was quite a let down today.  If we are asked for a 2nd interview, I will be sure to express those same thoughts that this "person" needs to be identified.  I know that saying this sounds a bit strange, but I really feel that this jaw bone wanted to be found... like something was drawing Gil toward it.   They really need to find out who it belongs to.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: antunym on November 23, 2010, 02:01:45 PM
kkthy -

I'd like to thank you and your husband and friends for doing the right thing.

There is someone who waits to be identified.  Who deserves to be identified.
Perhaps there is another family longing to know if this is their loved one.

I hope in time we will learn, who that is.

Good and decent people are rare and you are among them.

God bless you and your family and the  Beulieu's (sp)

 ::MonkeyAngel::

and God bless Natalee and her family.

 ::MonkeyAngel::



Can,
Thank you so much.  The news was quite a let down today.  If we are asked for a 2nd interview, I will be sure to express those same thoughts that this "person" needs to be identified.  I know that saying this sounds a bit strange, but I really feel that this jaw bone wanted to be found... like something was drawing Gil toward it.   They really need to find out who it belongs to.

Your so awesome!! Thank you for treating the remains of whoever is lost out there with so much respect and thank you for coming here to share all you knew. There are many of us here that hope and pray everyday that Natalee is returned home.  Although this wasn't her, maybe someones loved one can be returned to them because of you all. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 02:01:55 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)

 ::MonkeyCheer4:: ::rhino:: ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 02:01:57 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)

I needed that, Klaas!  ::CowboySmiley::

Oh yeah!! 
BIG TIME!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Green Eyes on November 23, 2010, 02:02:37 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)


RIGHT ON KLASS
[/b][/size]


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 02:05:12 PM
Maybe it's
 Amy Lynn Bradley
White Female
Race: Caucasian
Age: 23
Hair: Short Brown
Eyes: Green
Height: 5' 6"
Weight: 115 Pounds
Tattoos on:Left Shoulder, Right Ankle, Navel (Belly Button), Lower Back.
Hot line: +(804) 276 - 2204


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 02:05:29 PM
We "felt sure" that Dave and Beth had been notified. But this is Holland and Aruba.

We "felt sure" that since there was a big hoopla, it was Natalee. But this is Aruba and Holland.

We "felt sure" that as soon as an ID could be made, if it weren't Natalee, they would simply announce that she had been excluded but an investigation would continue to determine identity. But this is Holland and Aruba.

That's the way of it. People of good character, despite a multitude of contrary evidence, instinctively expect others to have similar ethics.

We aren't dealing with "normal". We are dealing with sick, sadistic bastards. They exist. They particularly exist in high places in Aruba and Holland. I HATE THEM ALL!

One Down and his spawn on the way. TICK TOCK.....

I'm going shopping to buy food for Thanksgiving. I'm thankful I get hopeful, and I'm thankful I can be counted among you all. This isn't over; not by a long shot. Aruba's bone littered beaches need to be bare! I'm starting with a CME cruise this Spring for Physicians that makes a stop in Aruba. Not if I can help it, and I think I can...............     ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:06:27 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.

I believe all that you believe, CBB.

But I also believe Joran laughed when he heard of the jaw bone being found - because he knew ALE had recovered her remains from that cage, and therefore thought this couldn't belong to Natalee.

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.

 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 02:08:41 PM
Seeing as how that took weeks to identify a wisdom tooth, and they already had Beth's DNA from long ago (which would/should have been kept in an open file), it makes me wonder:  Did they know this was Natalee upon receipt but they could not admit it for fear of showing how incompetent their baby island and the Hague are, and so they had to wait for another young Caucasian jawbone to arrive or to be found, so that if Beth requested this for AFIP, they would have another ready for shipment to AFIP if requested by Beth's family members.

Yes, right on target, Tyler! Exactly!   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: kkthy on November 23, 2010, 02:10:19 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I feel bad for the Holloway family.  All I can say is that they must be a VERY VERY STRONG FAMILY to go though that they have gone through for so many years.  My prayers are with them right now.  I now understand their hesitation to get too excited of this recent find.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 02:13:35 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I knew what to expect after all these years, but it still makes me so sad. I hate that place.

When will we ever learn, huh? Although I would rather be an eternal optimist and hope for the best than an evil rat bastard obstructionist hiding the truth and preventing the facts to come forward of a missing girl.

Law enforcement that was willing to accept the lie that two black security guards were guilty because the last three people ever seen with Natalee said so. Even though they never thought to check the security cameras.

A place where after holes were dug in the landfill to search for Natalee, they were mysteriously covered up over night.

The continued lack of pursuing JVDS because his statements cannot be held against him because he lies all the time.

How do you people in Aruba feel, knowing that because you did nothing, even worse, there was an obstruction of justice that Joran sits in a prison guilty of yet another murder? Hmm?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: WesleyBear on November 23, 2010, 02:14:02 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.

I believe all that you believe, CBB.

But I also believe Joran laughed when he heard of the jaw bone being found - because he knew ALE had recovered her remains from that cage, and therefore thought this couldn't belong to Natalee.

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.
Question...can we request the jawbone and test it ourselves?   Or because it was found in Aruba, it has to stay in Aruba?  I do not trust Aruba either......


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 02:17:37 PM
Justice for Natalee Holloway never stood a chance.

Janet

++++++

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 12/6/2005 9:18:21 AM ET


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn.  They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one. ….

What was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 02:28:28 PM
CALL ME CRAZY.......... (it's in my name), BUT I have an opinion about this whole thing.

I believe the bone was Natalee's.

I believe the bone slipped through the crab trap.

I believe they weighed the outcome if they admitted it was Natalee's, and their judgement has been consistently WRONG.

I believe that Renho would not have set herself up to be wrong when she made her prediction, and the fact that she did tells me that the spin machine had been notified. No need for that if you're dealing with truth.

I believe they either have Natalee's remains or they have destroyed them.

I believe they wanted to wait to Thanksgiving to try to bury the story, but pressure was mounting.

I believe they will regret what they've done. We need to all commit ourselves to that cause.

I believe all that you believe, CBB.

But I also believe Joran laughed when he heard of the jaw bone being found - because he knew ALE had recovered her remains from that cage, and therefore thought this couldn't belong to Natalee.

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.
Question...can we request the jawbone and test it ourselves?   Or because it was found in Aruba, it has to stay in Aruba?  I do not trust Aruba either......

I don't know, but note that the media is saying the tooth will be removed. We wouldn't get the actual bone found, IMO. I believe it was Natalee's. JMO.

Thanks for that post Red. Well said and I needed that.

OT:
IBE has asked about her avi several times. It's in my thread, if someone could relay that to her if she shows up before I get back, I'd appreciate it. I'm off to the grocery store and will see you all a little later.   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 23, 2010, 02:36:06 PM
Just like all the other evidence collected and sent to be examined -- we don't know if they really sent the ACTUAL real samples. The chain of control is just a complete joke.  ::MonkeyNoNo::   ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 02:39:03 PM
Just like all the other evidence collected and sent to be examined -- we don't know if they really sent the ACTUAL real samples. The chain of control is just a complete joke.  ::MonkeyNoNo::   ::MonkeyMad::

 I thought we would be breaking out the cigars Wreck..   :(


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: spooky112483 on November 23, 2010, 02:45:04 PM
I just don't even know what to say. We really should not be surprised. It all went according to the script they've played by for 5.5 years! I don't know what to think right now. But I do know that I feel desperate. Yes, desperate because time is not kind to any remains wherever they may be. This may be our last window of opportunity to get her home. Yes, answers can still come as long as Joran is breathing but we want to get her home. I went to bed thinking about how Natalee put that bone there to be found so that her family could have closure. I slept with the tv on all night thinking somthing may happen in the middle of the night. And damn it if it wasn't all a cruel hoax.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Ono on November 23, 2010, 02:45:30 PM
Apparently Joran knew.......remember he laughed when he heard the bone being found.....

DIG UP THE SLOOT POOL Surround!!!

I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 23, 2010, 02:46:15 PM
Just like all the other evidence collected and sent to be examined -- we don't know if they really sent the ACTUAL real samples. The chain of control is just a complete joke.  ::MonkeyNoNo::   ::MonkeyMad::

 I thought we would be breaking out the cigars Wreck..   :(
Me too!  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 02:48:20 PM
BOYCOTT AND.......


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ScrewAruba.jpg)

 ::MonkeyCheer4:: ::rhino:: ::MonkeyGavel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyTongue::

Klaas, Angie911, Monkeys "let's roll!" (those words are in honor of you, Angeie911)

Time to keep the pressure screw on Aruba, NL., Joran, Joran's family, the FBI, our terrorism laws that apply here, our government and any one, anyway to think outside the box.

Think protesting the travel shows will help again?

IMO  no body, no crime. Body gone for sure=cremation by Paulus. I always thought she'd be under the fountain next to the pool but, no go, someday could be found. Why did Anita know about NH panties in such detail? For goodness sake, Anita, try to save your child's Soul, yours and your family's.

Let's not let the Justice for Stephany go out of our mines; more than one way to skin the terrible cat=Joran


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 02:48:42 PM
Has any of the online publications/networks post a transcript of  a transcript of Aruba Solicitor General Taco Stein's statement to the media this morning this morning?

Thanks

Janet

+++++


Results of Bone Analysis on Possible Holloway Link to Be Announced Tuesday
Published November 22, 2010


The results of the forensic analysis on a jawbone found this month in Aruba will be announced on Tuesday, potentially providing the first piece of concrete evidence in the death of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway.

Ann Angela, a spokeswoman for the Aruba Prosecutor's Office, told Fox News she did not have results of the analysis early Monday. Aruba Solicitor General Taco Stein will make a statement following the announcement, she said.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11/22/results-bone-analysis-possible-holloway-link-announced-tuesday/




Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 23, 2010, 02:49:48 PM
Hi IBE..  :)  and Thank you !  ::MonkeyKiss:: Nice to see you honey !


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:51:01 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I knew what to expect after all these years, but it still makes me so sad. I hate that place.

When will we ever learn, huh? Although I would rather be an eternal optimist and hope for the best than an evil rat bastard obstructionist hiding the truth and preventing the facts to come forward of a missing girl.

Law enforcement that was willing to accept the lie that two black security guards were guilty because the last three people ever seen with Natalee said so. Even though they never thought to check the security cameras.

A place where after holes were dug in the landfill to search for Natalee, they were mysteriously covered up over night.

The continued lack of pursuing JVDS because his statements cannot be held against him because he lies all the time.

How do you people in Aruba feel, knowing that because you did nothing, even worse, there was an obstruction of justice that Joran sits in a prison guilty of yet another murder? Hmm?

It seems to me that the mentality is that murder is acceptable, clean up...cover up....and blame everybody else!  The justice system is a joke, and everyone on that island knows it!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 02:51:05 PM
"minds" not "mines" although I'd like to throw some down into mines

CBB, thank you, my imp avatar is cute and warm. Thanks. ::MonkeySkate::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 02:55:18 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I knew what to expect after all these years, but it still makes me so sad. I hate that place.

When will we ever learn, huh? Although I would rather be an eternal optimist and hope for the best than an evil rat bastard obstructionist hiding the truth and preventing the facts to come forward of a missing girl.

Law enforcement that was willing to accept the lie that two black security guards were guilty because the last three people ever seen with Natalee said so. Even though they never thought to check the security cameras.

A place where after holes were dug in the landfill to search for Natalee, they were mysteriously covered up over night.

The continued lack of pursuing JVDS because his statements cannot be held against him because he lies all the time.

How do you people in Aruba feel, knowing that because you did nothing, even worse, there was an obstruction of justice that Joran sits in a prison guilty of yet another murder? Hmm?

Right on!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 02:59:03 PM
For posters who are newer to this case, you've just witnessed an example of how Aruba and Holland have handled this case from day one.

Welcome to the Natalee Holloway case.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I knew what to expect after all these years, but it still makes me so sad. I hate that place.

When will we ever learn, huh? Although I would rather be an eternal optimist and hope for the best than an evil rat bastard obstructionist hiding the truth and preventing the facts to come forward of a missing girl.

Law enforcement that was willing to accept the lie that two black security guards were guilty because the last three people ever seen with Natalee said so. Even though they never thought to check the security cameras.

A place where after holes were dug in the landfill to search for Natalee, they were mysteriously covered up over night.

The continued lack of pursuing JVDS because his statements cannot be held against him because he lies all the time.

How do you people in Aruba feel, knowing that because you did nothing, even worse, there was an obstruction of justice that Joran sits in a prison guilty of yet another murder? Hmm?

It seems to me that the mentality is that murder is acceptable, clean up...cover up....and blame everybody else!  The justice system is a joke, and everyone on that island knows it!

Didn't finish...so I'll add,

I don't think any of the ones that helped Joran get away with murder in Aruba, have the common decency (that we assume comes naturally) to even feel one pang of guilt over Stephany's murder.  It's just not in them.  That's why they continue covering for that monster to this day!

 ::MonkeyNoNo::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 03:01:13 PM
The piece contained a wisdom tooth, and Holloway's had been removed before her 2005 disappearance, Aruba Solicitor-General Taco Stein told reporters.

"Right there and then, it was obvious it wasn't Natalee," Stein said. Investigators are now trying to determine whether the bone came from any other people reported missing, he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/23/aruba.bone.found/index.html?hpt=T2

-----

That required calling in NFI? That took a week?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 03:01:37 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 03:02:41 PM
Natalee Holloway: Jawbone Not That of Missing American Teen
Jawbone With One Tooth Attached Found Two Weeks Ago on Aruban Beach

A jawbone found on an Aruban beach does not belong to the missing American teenager Natalee Holloway, authorities announced today.

The determination was made using Holloway's dental records, according to a statement issued late this morning by the Aruba Public Prosecutor's Office.

Aruban Solicitor General Taco Stein said shortly after the announcement that they could determine quickly that the bone wasn't Holloway's -- the jawbone found on the beach had a wisdom tooth still attached and Holloway's dental records showed the teen had had her wisdom teeth removed.

Aruban authorities, Stein said, are checking with neighboring islands to see if the bone could be a match for any other missing persons.

A match was considered a long shot. In the five years since Holloway disappeared while on a school trip, there has been no physical evidence to confirm that she had been killed.

The Aruban prosecutors office said a Dutch forensics team could extract only a small amount of DNA evidence from the one tooth that was still attached to the mandible. It was, they said, "of low quality."

"The bone appeared to have been exposed to various (weather) influences and proved to be porous," the statement read.

For the time being, the forensics team has stopped working to test the DNA.

"There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile," the statement read. "However, this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates."

It is believed a recent hurricane may have stirred up the beach, leading tourists to find the bone outside a hotel.

MORE...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/natalee-holloway-jaw-bone-missing-american-teen/story?id=12222677


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 03:10:30 PM
Ruppa on HLN said that Beth has released a statement and was told to wait for the media release along with everyone else for the results that she would not be told in advance. 

Compassion must not be in that crazy Pap language.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 03:11:35 PM
Just a thought about Aruba having their hotels filled with Industry TV/Films crews over Thanksgiving holiday... high % that it won't happen. Why?
If working it's a double time union holiday. If not working but under contract you get paid regular time for Thurs. and Fri. but would have to stay at the hotels with your own money. If not under contract, you'd be missing work here and probably couldn't chance that.

Aruba shoots self in foot again! ::MonkeyGavel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: spooky112483 on November 23, 2010, 03:11:45 PM
Phil Keeting just read Beth's statement; she is dissappointed in the way they did not tell her ahead of time. She found out like we did. Shep Smith and Phil both said they could have told us last week!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: yuknomenot on November 23, 2010, 03:12:04 PM
Birds of a feather flock together... never more true than in the case of those who are in power on Aruba, and most probably, now in Holland.  The whole lot of them are sadistic and inhumane.  Amazing so, so many of them exactly alike.

I do not believe a word they say. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MsVada on November 23, 2010, 03:13:07 PM

When will we ever learn, huh? Although I would rather be an eternal optimist and hope for the best than an evil rat bastard obstructionist hiding the truth and preventing the facts to come forward of a missing girl.

Law enforcement that was willing to accept the lie that two black security guards were guilty because the last three people ever seen with Natalee said so. Even though they never thought to check the security cameras.

A place where after holes were dug in the landfill to search for Natalee, they were mysteriously covered up over night.

The continued lack of pursuing JVDS because his statements cannot be held against him because he lies all the time.

How do you people in Aruba feel, knowing that because you did nothing, even worse, there was an obstruction of justice that Joran sits in a prison guilty of yet another murder? Hmm?

I believe that it is the mentality of their culture of people, to not have a conscience.  I will never go to Aruba, I will never support Aruba and I will continue to tell people that I meet that are going there, what a mistake they are making.

I am angry that it seems their testing stops at ruling Natalee out,  If that were here in USA,  they'd be still working to find out who it was and where are the rest of the remains?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 03:14:13 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 03:15:55 PM
Apparently, they can`t even identify WISDOM TEETH on that tish ball of an island.

I know they are dim people... but this really takes it to a whole new level.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 03:16:51 PM
another reason: Thanksgiving at home in the good ole USA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 03:17:07 PM
Phil Keeting just read Beth's statement; she is dissappointed in the way they did not tell her ahead of time. She found out like we did. Shep Smith and Phil both said they could have told us last week!

BOYCOTT ARUBA AND....



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/ScrewAruba.jpg)


I am so angry I still can't think straight.  Who would even want to go to that god forsaken island?  It's hot, not plush or green and now overridden with snakes and dengue carrying mosquitoes.  They are so preoccupied with protecting the tourism dollars there is no justice when a crime occurs. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 03:18:46 PM
Ruppa did a nice recap:

fish bones
donkey bones
monkey bones
duct tape with hair
jaw bones

all this since Natalee went missing but Aruba still has not answered WHERE IS NATALEE?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 03:23:17 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81379.php

Google translation:

Found jaw not Natalee Hollway

November 23, 2010, 1:24 p.m. (GMT -04:00)

Email this article 
Print this article 

ORANGE CITY - The piece of jawbone that two weeks back at the Divi Phoenix Beach Hotel is located, is the 2005 missing American teenager Natalee Holloway. This is the finding of the Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI). The Public Prosecutor (OM) is known through a press release this afternoon.

The NFI conducted at the request of the Aruban OM forensic anthropological research in the jaw with a piece of tooth. DNA was simultaneously investigated. This shows that it goes to a human jaw. Whether it also to the jaw of a woman or a man is, remains unclear. Advocate General (AG) Taco Stein says that it is very difficult to determine sex without further evidence being affected. It is also due to the mixed composition of the 'Caribbean' population is difficult to say that the bone of a woman or man, said Stein.

Missing persons
Each case is now the Aruban list of missing persons checked to see there is a link to the bone. Or there may be a relationship with the missing Vincenzo Tromp 2008, is still nothing to say, says Stein. Justice does not have more material after the day after the jaw has been found on the stretch of beach multitrack explored, let the AG know. The other bone in which the American press reported yesterday that it had been found nearby, has proved to be human, says Stein.
  After it was found to be a human, the forensic anthropological research with extensive research by forensic dentists (odontologen). Using dental records (including the location of wisdom teeth and fillings) of Natalee Holloway provided by her family made available, a comparison is made with the jaw found. Based on these comparisons could not be excluded that the observed bone material and choose from Holloway.

When NFI at this conclusion, the DNA testing stopped. NFI DNA researchers have had very sophisticated techniques to the DNA present in the bone to investigate, since the very small DNA samples of low quality. The bone had in fact suffered serious kinds (weather) influences and proved porous. The OM 'belongs to the possibilities to choose from the jawbone to be used for further attempts to get a DNA profile. " Such research 'difficult' but future research into the identification of the person from whom the bone it would come. "As all based on dental records if it can be ruled out that the bone fragment of Natalee Holloway", the OM in Aruba decided to further research not yet carried out.

Yesterday gave the Dutch crime reporter Peter R. De Vries in the media know that Beth Twitty, Natalee's mother, has not been called by the authorities. If the bone was indeed Holloway, it was for the FBI's mother Holloway De Vries already informed.

U.S. press
It impeded the American press is not about to go full in advance of the possibility that the jaw actually Natalee would be. CNN quickly sent a team that posted at the Public Ministry. In the American television program Nancy Grace last night was breaking news out that if even half bone on the beach at Divi Phoenix would be found. Almost the entire program was dedicated to this discovery.

During the broadcast were experts in DNA testing and the word was a short interview with the tourists who have found the second bone. It is an American mother and her minor son. They told us that she bone to the hotel reception had disclosed that the hotel staff to their surprise, the police would not call because they do not want negative publicity for the hotel. During the entire program was a highlight bar with the message that 'officials within hours of a declaration would come. " That statement had not yet Grace this morning on its website. Reports that it found a piece of bone spare ribs were far could not be confirmed. In any case, the PPS reports yesterday that the bone was collected by the police and now that it is not human.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 03:23:36 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx

I'm glad JQK voiced and echoed the sentiments we have been posting.  It's disgusting that they did not inform the family first and took so long to orchestrate another stab in Beth's heart. 

 ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: can on November 23, 2010, 03:27:09 PM
kkthy -

I'd like to thank you and your husband and friends for doing the right thing.

There is someone who waits to be identified.  Who deserves to be identified.
Perhaps there is another family longing to know if this is their loved one.

I hope in time we will learn, who that is.

Good and decent people are rare and you are among them.

God bless you and your family and the  Beulieu's (sp)

 ::MonkeyAngel::

and God bless Natalee and her family.

 ::MonkeyAngel::



Can,
Thank you so much.  The news was quite a let down today.  If we are asked for a 2nd interview, I will be sure to express those same thoughts that this "person" needs to be identified.  I know that saying this sounds a bit strange, but I really feel that this jaw bone wanted to be found... like something was drawing Gil toward it.   They really need to find out who it belongs to.
Thank you.
Yes kkthy, It was such a let down. 
Your feelings don't sound strange at all.
 ::MonkeyAngel::

 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 23, 2010, 03:32:39 PM
O/T what does (+one hidden) mean in the members and guests lists? Is that you Kermit?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 03:33:04 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx

Thank you Northern Rose.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: tbivens on November 23, 2010, 03:33:41 PM
Unbelievable, just totally unbelievable  ::MonkeyMad:: For the life of me, I will never understand someone / s who does not have a conscience.  Isn't it the right thing to do to care about someone else's feelings?  I guess I just do not understand how people can be so cruel. 

My heart goes out to Natalee's family and friends, especially her mother and father.  Will they never be able to enjoy another holiday?  I am a firm believer in karma.  I do wish that each and everyone of those evil people who are involved in her disappearance/or worse live with nightmares for the rest of their worldly lives and live an eternity in He**.  Please Lord, let this family have justice soon.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 03:35:47 PM
O/T what does (+one hidden) mean in the members and guests lists? Is that you Kermit?

There is a tech person that remains hidden.  No big deal.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SuzieQ on November 23, 2010, 03:38:52 PM
Phil Keeting just read Beth's statement; she is dissappointed in the way they did not tell her ahead of time. She found out like we did. Shep Smith and Phil both said they could have told us last week!

BOYCOTT ARUBA AND....



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/ScrewAruba.jpg)


I am so angry I still can't think straight.  Who would even want to go to that god forsaken island?  It's hot, not plush or green and now overridden with snakes and dengue carrying mosquitoes.  They are so preoccupied with protecting the tourism dollars there is no justice when a crime occurs. 


Plus they speak a language that few people in the world can  understand. How do the tourists know what they are planning behind their backs. I HATE THEM ALL


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 03:39:08 PM
O/T what does (+one hidden) mean in the members and guests lists? Is that you Kermit?

There is a tech person that remains hidden.  No big deal.

tech person monkey

(http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/gbrenna/Lb0DDLGxcx7vrzsyU8B21EcmBdyteJelIqTr6zyyxjJcdJLMb3uLuzHGLp48/092409_TechSupportMonkey.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: higherhopes on November 23, 2010, 03:39:38 PM
Hello Monkeys, I never post here but I do read, I also listen to every news story or interview about Natalee, always have, But today I feel obligated to at least say that I agree with what most are saying her. Aruba always has and always will have a beef with the Holloways and thats not right. God Bless that family and may justice prevail one day for this beautiful girl and her family!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 03:41:28 PM
Jinkasaurus spoke to Taco after his announcement.  Here is what was said

Jinka: Any comment at all to the parents of of Natalee Holloway or to the United States in regard to this open investigation that you have?

Taco: well.. as I said before...it's very sad for the parents that this doesn't give them the closure we  hope it would bring them. But.... Ahhhhh.... they must rest assured that we do our utmost to resolve the case and we work as much as we can together with other authorities  in the United States and Holland to bring this case to a solution.  But whether or not that will be in the near future I can not tell you.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 03:45:57 PM
Jinkasaurus said Taco spoke to her about Urine's computer.  Taco told Jinka that the FBI has the contents of the hard drive and Aruba has not seen them.  Jinka was surprised that the FBI has been working with Peru as she had not heard that before.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 03:46:48 PM
The good things I can see -

Nobody forgets about Natalee. The story is like a snowball, it only gets larger with time.

People still care after 5+ years. More than ever, actually.

The island continues to dig a deeper hole - event after event - scam after scam.

They will end up like Joran... probably stabbed in the neck. Who will care when this happens?

NOBODY.

God bless the Holloways! I am thankful that they conduct themselves the way they do. ::HelloKitty::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 03:47:50 PM

Natalee Holloway: Jawbone Not That of Missing American Teen
Jawbone With One Tooth Attached Found Two Weeks Ago on Aruban Beach

A jawbone found on an Aruban beach does not belong to the missing American teenager Natalee Holloway, authorities announced today.

The determination was made using Holloway's dental records, according to a statement issued late this morning by the Aruba Public Prosecutor's Office.

Aruban Solicitor General Taco Stein said shortly after the announcement that they could determine quickly that the bone wasn't Holloway's -- the jawbone found on the beach had a wisdom tooth still attached and Holloway's dental records showed the teen had had her wisdom teeth removed.

Aruban authorities, Stein said, are checking with neighboring islands to see if the bone could be a match for any other missing persons.

A match was considered a long shot. In the five years since Holloway disappeared while on a school trip, there has been no physical evidence to confirm that she had been killed.

The Aruban prosecutors office said a Dutch forensics team could extract only a small amount of DNA evidence from the one tooth that was still attached to the mandible. It was, they said, "of low quality."

"The bone appeared to have been exposed to various (weather) influences and proved to be porous," the statement read.

For the time being, the forensics team has stopped working to test the DNA.

"There is still a possibility that the molar from the jawbone could be used for further efforts to generate a DNA profile," the statement read. "However, this follow-up study of said molar would inhibit future research into identifying the person from whom the bone originates."

It is believed a recent hurricane may have stirred up the beach, leading tourists to find the bone outside a hotel.

MORE...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/natalee-holloway-jaw-bone-missing-american-teen/story?id=12222677

Dental records were electronically emailed by the FBI to the NFI last Wednesday.  According to Taco Stein ... it was "quickly" determined that the jawbone find was not Natalee Holloway case related.  Why was the family not "quickly" notified?  Why was the family forced to again ride that emotional roller coaster of not knowing for almost a week.

Despicable!!!

Janet

++++++++

FBI: Aruba studying missing teen's dental records
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:30 pm

 
Paul Daymond, an FBI spokesman in Birmingham, Alabama, said the agency sent some records electronically Wednesday and shipped the remaining dental impressions. It is unclear when those would arrive.

http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/news/world/article_0074a3f2-3def-5a9a-a652-c24cc179caa9.html


Friday, November 19, 2010
Natalee Holloway's mother issues statement on jawbone testing


Natalee’s mother released this statement today:

"There is no good answer, whether it is Natalee or whether it isn't. But no answer at all is the most unbearable. We appreciate everyone's loving care and concern and are anxious about the developments."

http://www.foxalabamanews.com/2010/11/natalee-holloways-mother-issues.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 23, 2010, 03:51:07 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx

My dear God.  Every time I think Aruba cannot be any more depraved, they prove me wrong.

Beth you are a pillar of strength, and have endured far more than any human being should ever have to.  These monsters will get theirs - every single one of them.  Perhaps not today, or next year - but fate has a way of making things right.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 03:52:05 PM
It infuriates me that Taco is all smiley ear to ear while he is lying speaking about Natalee.  I still hope he spontaneously bursts into flames as well as many others.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 03:54:12 PM
The good things I can see -

Nobody forgets about Natalee. The story is like a snowball, it only gets larger with time.

People still care after 5+ years. More than ever, actually.

The island continues to dig a deeper hole - event after event - scam after scam.

They will end up like Joran... probably stabbed in the neck. Who will care when this happens?

NOBODY.

God bless the Holloways! I am thankful that they conduct themselves the way they do. ::HelloKitty::

 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 03:55:25 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx

My dear God.  Every time I think Aruba cannot be any more depraved, they prove me wrong.

Beth you are a pillar of strength, and have endured far more than any human being should ever have to.  These monsters will get theirs - every single one of them.  Perhaps not today, or next year - but fate has a way of making things right.

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 04:02:09 PM
Natalee Holloway's mother says she's disappointed by slowness of Aruba results

Lashing out again at Aruban investigators, Natalee Holloway's mother said today that she's upset about how long it took them to figure out a jawbone found on the island isn't her daughter's remains.

Beth Holloway is "deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results," her attorney, John Q. Kelly, said in a statement today. "Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

Although Aruban prosecutors announced Monday that they'd make an announcement about the investigation, Holloway hadn't been contacted as of this morning, her spokeswoman said.

Kelly's comments came just hours after the prosecutor's office publicly announced that the bone, which was tested by Dutch forensics experts, does not belong to the missing Mountain Brook teen.

That determination was made by comparing the bone to Holloway's dental records.

The lab in the Netherlands also started testing for DNA extracted from a molar, but found that there was only a small amount of genetic material present and it was low quality, partly because the bone is very weathered. But once the dental records were shown not to match, the DNA testing stopped.

It could be used in the future to determine who the remains belong to, but that would require having genetic material from a missing person to compare it to, the prosecutor's office said.

The news was just another in a line of disappointments for Holloway's family, who has been waiting for news of a break in the case since she disappeared in May of 2005 at the age of 18.

She was last seen leaving a bar with Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in her disappearance, on the final night of her trip.

Aruba prosecutors have repeatedly said they lack evidence to charge Van der Sloot, who is currently in jail in Peru accused of killing a 21-year-old woman on May 30 -- five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance.


http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/11/natalee_holloways_mother_says.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 04:11:52 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx

I am back----------------Aruba, guess what?  We are STILL here.  You have really stirred us up this time.  You think you are so damn smart with what you did to Beth.  You stepped in it this time.  You crossed the line. That line has been drawn in you rotten sand. 

I stand with Natalee and Beth for ever how long it takes. 

BOYCOTT ARUBA.  BOYCOTT ARUBA.  PASS IT ALONG.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: can on November 23, 2010, 04:13:21 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx

My dear God.  Every time I think Aruba cannot be any more depraved, they prove me wrong.

Beth you are a pillar of strength, and have endured far more than any human being should ever have to.  These monsters will get theirs - every single one of them.  Perhaps not today, or next year - but fate has a way of making things right.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I wish one of the reporter's would ask if the bone was seen by a forensic anthropologist to determine how long the bone might have been in water.
(Of course, we know that hasn't happened!)
If it''s an extremely old bone, wouldn't that narrow down the missing persons to check it against?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Ono on November 23, 2010, 04:17:01 PM
Jinkasaurus said Taco spoke to her about Urine's computer.  Taco told Jinka that the FBI has the contents of the hard drive and Aruba has not seen them.  Jinka was surprised that the FBI has been working with Peru as she had not heard that before.

That's good news.  [ Thank goodness for Peru. ]


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 04:18:21 PM
Dental records were electronically emailed by the FBI to the NFI last Wednesday.  According to Taco Stein ... it was "quickly" determined that the jawbone find was not Natalee Holloway case related.  Why was the family not "quickly" notified?  Why was the family forced to again ride that emotional roller coaster of not knowing for almost a week.

Why because they thought they would use this to cash in on Media staying in Crappy Hotels


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: can on November 23, 2010, 04:18:43 PM
Surely there must be protocols dictating family is notified first. 

Aruba's lack of compassion towards Natalee's parents show utter disdain.

I have no words.   ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 04:21:38 PM
Look at Jackass I mean Jinkasaurus with the smile on his face.(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/Jinkasaurus.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 23, 2010, 04:23:10 PM
Dental records were electronically emailed by the FBI to the NFI last Wednesday.  According to Taco Stein ... it was "quickly" determined that the jawbone find was not Natalee Holloway case related.  Why was the family not "quickly" notified?  Why was the family forced to again ride that emotional roller coaster of not knowing for almost a week.

Why because they thought they would use this to cash in on Media staying in Crappy Hotels


Ditto

I hate Aruba


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Ono on November 23, 2010, 04:24:03 PM
Tourists should avoid Aruba like the plague.  Nothing has changed ... it's one scary place.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Curly on November 23, 2010, 04:28:32 PM
I'm beyond outraged.
Going to FB so I can curse my head off.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 4 Donks on November 23, 2010, 04:40:56 PM
I am so outraged for Natalee's family and needed to do something. I emailed my entire contact list with a copy of Beth's statement, the smiling picture of Taco Stein and his statement with a warning about vacationing in Aruba. I asked everyone to forward it to all their contacts. If I can prevent one person from vacationing in that heII hole it will be worth it. Please consider doing the same. Thank you.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 23, 2010, 04:47:31 PM
I was here about 1/2 an hour ago, had something typed out, computer went all loopy so I had to shut down & run a scan. I clicked on something while googling last night...at least now I know why my google translate wouldn't go through. All fixed.


I have a question for anyone that may know. My mind cannot get rid of the thought Joran laughed when the news of the mandible hit the media. Why laugh? Why? Does he know that there's no way for the jaw bone to wash ashore or something? It's made me think of something. Going back to the fisherman's hut break-in, and keeping in mind the fisherman's knife that was stolen:
1- Would a body burn faster if it were dismembered?
2- Were there any bonfires and/or regular fire that night?
3- Is there a place where the fisherman dump the fish waste?
4- If there is an "industrial sized" fish waste site, could Natalee have been dismembered and her blood/organs mixed with the fish waste?
5- Could her remains have been incinerated either by bonfire or another method then thrown into the sand or ocean? If so, wouldn't something stronger than a simple fire have to be used?
6- I do believe Natalee was thrown out to sea, but in the case that she may not have been, where could her body have been stored (if it wasn't dismembered right away) and not have left any trace evidence behind?

I believe Lorenzo is involved & have thought so since the beginning, I believe the Kalpoe's are just as much involved as Joran, I believe Paulus knew what happened & helped to dispose of Natalee in covering up the crime scene, I believe Anita is a wench that has never held her kids accountable and this is the outcome of her child rearing abilities, I believe the Aruban authorities are well aware of what Lorenzo did/does & are probably in on it - maybe even getting kickbacks so to speak, I believe Joran was a big part of making Lorenzo wealthy - as well as Paulus, I believe Aruban officials knew for YEARS what their island was beling used for and didn't do a damn thing about it (ie: sex trafficking, drug drop offs & pick ups, money laundering, etc), I believe Joran isn't afraid of a single thing and that is something that has been learned over the years therefore he hasn't a conscience, I believe alot of things in regards to Natalee's disappearance but one thing I know[/] for certain is that I'll never visit Aruba again.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: littlebuddy598 on November 23, 2010, 04:48:31 PM
I say TORTURE the B@STARD until he gives us what we want.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 04:52:38 PM
Look at Jackass I mean Jinkasaurus with the smile on his face.(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/Jinkasaurus.jpg)

He does look like a used car salesman! Geez, would it kill you to put on a blazer for 15 minutes and at least act like a professional? Aruba is where the inept go... because they cannot
find jobs anywhere else.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Shy Monkey on November 23, 2010, 04:52:58 PM
I am heartbroken as well that Natalee's family will not have closure. Here is another young woman missing and I wonder if Amy's family has DNA on file that they could compare to this jaw bone.  (Amy is also listed as missing on the Aruba webpage.)

Amy Lynn Bradley *

Reward U.S. $260,000.00

Last Known Location:
Tuesday March 24, 1998 on board the cruise vessel Rhapsody of the Seas while en route from Oranjestad, Aruba to Willemstad, Curacao, Netherlands Antilles. Amy disappeared during the docking process in Curacao. Suspected Location: Unknown.

Amy may have been abducted and is possibly being held in South America or the Caribbean. A reward of over US $250,000 is being offered for Amy's safe return and a reward of US $50,000 for any information that leads to the apprehension and arrest of those responsible for Amy's disappearance.

Name: Amy Lynn Bradley
White Female
Race: Caucasian
Age: 23
Hair: Short Brown
Eyes: Green
Height: 5' 6"
Weight: 115 Pounds
Tattoos on:Left Shoulder, Right Ankle, Navel (Belly Button), Lower Back.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 04:53:57 PM
Beth Holloway releases statement

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.

"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx


I Ask God to Help Me

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 219
:  I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: DPJ on November 23, 2010, 05:06:09 PM
He does look like a used car salesman! Geez, would it kill you to put on a blazer for 15 minutes and at least act like a professional? Aruba is where the inept go... because they cannot find jobs anywhere else.
a blazer on!!!  really

Come on this is the Caribbean nobody is going to do that while giving an interview on the street in that heat.

Anyway too bad they couldn't identify the jawbone, could have given the family some peace over the holidays.

BTW is there a link to that interview?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 05:12:41 PM
He does look like a used car salesman! Geez, would it kill you to put on a blazer for 15 minutes and at least act like a professional? Aruba is where the inept go... because they cannot find jobs anywhere else.
a blazer on!!!  really

Come on this is the Caribbean nobody is going to do that while giving an interview on the street in that heat.

Anyway too bad they couldn't identify the jawbone, could have given the family some peace over the holidays.

BTW is there a link to that interview?

yes... and maybe he could have really even stepped it up and done it indoors where they could do it in air conditioning and with a podium or a desk or sitting across from each other... you know, really get crazy with it. It`s just a global news event, nothing big. Don`t strain yourself Taco Stein.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on November 23, 2010, 05:12:56 PM
Jinkasaurus said Taco spoke to her about Urine's computer.  Taco told Jinka that the FBI has the contents of the hard drive and Aruba has not seen them.  Jinka was surprised that the FBI has been working with Peru as she had not heard that before.

I suppose I am smarter than Jinka, because the FBI had a case against Urine of the Ditch from the extortion case in Birmingham.  I guess Jinka is not as smart as Jinka thinks.  Stupid media people. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 23, 2010, 05:13:57 PM
4 Donks - you have a good heart. ::HelloKitty::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 05:16:59 PM
I am sure there must be a better complete transcript or complete video/audio of the today's Taco Stein interview out there but ... the following is the best I could come up with.

Janet

++++

CNN Newsroom
CNN
Aired on Tuesday, Nov 23, 2010


00:27:41   >>> Let's take you to aruba now.

<snipped>

00:33:47   The critical point here is that the jawbone is first of all human and is not that of natalee holloway.

http://www.livedash.com/transcript/cnn_newsroom/49/CNN/Tuesday_November_23_2010/519028/


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 23, 2010, 05:21:54 PM
He does look like a used car salesman! Geez, would it kill you to put on a blazer for 15 minutes and at least act like a professional? Aruba is where the inept go... because they cannot find jobs anywhere else.
a blazer on!!!  really

Come on this is the Caribbean nobody is going to do that while giving an interview on the street in that heat.

Anyway too bad they couldn't identify the jawbone, could have given the family some peace over the holidays.

BTW is there a link to that interview?

yes... and maybe he could have really even stepped it up and done it indoors where they could do it in air conditioning and with a podium or a desk or sitting across from each other... you know, really get crazy with it. It`s just a global news event, nothing big. Don`t strain yourself Taco Stein.

HA!!!  Carpe, that would require just a touch of civility and humanity - neither of which anyone on Aruba seems to be familiar with.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tylergal on November 23, 2010, 05:27:55 PM
Jinkasaurus said Taco spoke to her about Urine's computer.  Taco told Jinka that the FBI has the contents of the hard drive and Aruba has not seen them.  Jinka was surprised that the FBI has been working with Peru as she had not heard that before.

I suppose I am smarter than Jinka, because the FBI had a case against Urine of the Ditch from the extortion case in Birmingham.  I guess Jinka is not as smart as Jinka thinks.  Stupid media people. 
I suppose I need to expand on this.  It is a fact that our FBI has better technology and systems in place to deal with forensic's than a third-world country and it would only stand to reason that Peru, since these occurrences are in tandem, has called on the FBI to assist and participate and walk through this in concert with sharing of evidence.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Buckeye on November 23, 2010, 05:30:49 PM
 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

So they tried to do some DNA testing from the weathered bone but not the molar?  Digital films can be used to match even if they have to remove the tooth and destroy it. Why wouldn't they try to extract the DNA and then have others submit records for comparison? 

I want to see the actual NFI report.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 05:31:11 PM
My 21 year old son just came in and ask me if Natalee was coming home.  I told him that they said it wasn't her and that they have known since prolly Friday that it wasn't Natalee and that they didn't even tell Beth Dave or Matt until we heard the news.  I can't tell you exactly what he said but it was somewhere along the lines of f aruba.  Of course I fussed at him for cussin, but under my breath I am saying a lot more than that.

Aruba is done. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 05:34:20 PM
Dental records were electronically emailed by the FBI to the NFI last Wednesday.  According to Taco Stein ... it was "quickly" determined that the jawbone find was not Natalee Holloway case related.  Why was the family not "quickly" notified?  Why was the family forced to again ride that emotional roller coaster of not knowing for almost a week.

Why because they thought they would use this to cash in on Media staying in Crappy Hotels


Ditto

I hate Aruba

Triple ditto. I would bomb that chit, if I had the means. It`s just like Fallujah - to save it, you must first kill it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 23, 2010, 05:35:05 PM
Jinkasaurus said Taco spoke to her about Urine's computer.  Taco told Jinka that the FBI has the contents of the hard drive and Aruba has not seen them.  Jinka was surprised that the FBI has been working with Peru as she had not heard that before.

I suppose I am smarter than Jinka, because the FBI had a case against Urine of the Ditch from the extortion case in Birmingham.  I guess Jinka is not as smart as Jinka thinks.  Stupid media people. 
I suppose I need to expand on this.  It is a fact that our FBI has better technology and systems in place to deal with forensic's than a third-world country and it would only stand to reason that Peru, since these occurrences are in tandem, has called on the FBI to assist and participate and walk through this in concert with sharing of evidence.

But I thought the forensics were being handled at the Hague? The lab in the Hague is the best and most advanced in the world. I thought the fbi was assisting bc Natalee is/was a US citizen that went missing and bc of the scale of the crime going worldwide. True, I'd trust our labs more than anywhere else, especially considering Aruba's laws pass through the Hague, but their lab itself is absolutely amazing.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 23, 2010, 05:38:38 PM
Jinkasaurus said Taco spoke to her about Urine's computer.  Taco told Jinka that the FBI has the contents of the hard drive and Aruba has not seen them.  Jinka was surprised that the FBI has been working with Peru as she had not heard that before.

I suppose I am smarter than Jinka, because the FBI had a case against Urine of the Ditch from the extortion case in Birmingham.  I guess Jinka is not as smart as Jinka thinks.  Stupid media people. 
I suppose I need to expand on this.  It is a fact that our FBI has better technology and systems in place to deal with forensic's than a third-world country and it would only stand to reason that Peru, since these occurrences are in tandem, has called on the FBI to assist and participate and walk through this in concert with sharing of evidence.

But I thought the forensics were being handled at the Hague? The lab in the Hague is the best and most advanced in the world. I thought the fbi was assisting bc Natalee is/was a US citizen that went missing and bc of the scale of the crime going worldwide. True, I'd trust our labs more than anywhere else, especially considering Aruba's laws pass through the Hague, but their lab itself is absolutely amazing.

Tylergal, sorry I didn't realize you were soeaking about Peru. Stupid me honeybunches :)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 23, 2010, 05:53:54 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 05:59:48 PM
Red

I think one of my FP comments went directly to that SPAM file.  Would you please retrieve it.

Thanks

Janet

++++


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/11/23/confirmed-the-jaw-bone-found-in-aruba-does-not-belong-to-natalee-holloway/comment-page-1/#comment-2277914


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 23, 2010, 06:02:49 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

LOL - you mean Louis Shaeffer's boat? ::MonkeyJnBox:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::  Mebbe they are waiting on Silvetti's millions to get there?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Buckeye on November 23, 2010, 06:03:56 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

Well...Timmy waited so long that all the targets have probably shifted....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 06:06:48 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

I am at a loss for words and as most all of you know, that rarely happens.

The Persistance goes to Aruba 3 years ago and maps some 300 possible search sites. Are they actually searched, nah ... they go home.

I jaw bone is discovered in Aruba and suddenly all the clammer from Tim is that 300 areas were targeted in Aruba and that he and TES are going back to Aruba to search. Now that the jaw bone is determined not to be that of Natalee, the searches are off?

Um, what changed?

So the areas would only be searched if the jaw bone was Natalee's? Why was the mapping done in the first place if there was never any intention of actually searching what was mapped? Obviously every one can see how ignorant a premise that is.

If those who went on the persistance are so sure that she is in the water and one of the 300 targeted areas, then search em or shut up!

Why would anyone think that Natalee is in the ocean, map the area and then never do follow up? I will stop before my Italian temper comes out.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 06:09:35 PM
Tourists should avoid Aruba like the plague.  Nothing has changed ... it's one scary place.
Not as scary as Afghanistan.
And many travellers are already staying home because of TSA high alert regulations, random drug murders in Mexico, cost of the EURO, cargo bombs, recession, and better places to go than Aruba.

Beth's message is not to be scared of places like Aruba, it's to be informed that other countries aren't like the US. And American travellers are targeted and in many places not liked in others. Also travel with someone and use the buddy system.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 06:09:42 PM
Red

I think one of my FP comments went directly to that SPAM file.  Would you please retrieve it.

Thanks

Janet

++++


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/11/23/confirmed-the-jaw-bone-found-in-aruba-does-not-belong-to-natalee-holloway/comment-page-1/#comment-2277914

Found it, saved from the dreaded clutches of the spam monster ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 06:11:04 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

I am at a loss for words and as most all of you know, that rarely happens.

The Persistance goes to Aruba 3 years ago and maps some 300 possible search sites. Are they actually searched, nah ... they go home.

I jaw bone is discovered in Aruba and suddenly all the clammer from Tim is that 300 areas were targeted in Aruba and that he and TES are going back to Aruba to search. Now that the jaw bone is determined not to be that of Natalee, the searches are off?

Um, what changed?

So the areas would only be searched if the jaw bone was Natalee's? Why was the mapping done in the first place if there was never any intention of actually searching what was mapped? Obviously every one can see how ignorant a premise that is.

If those who went on the persistance are so sure that she is in the water and one of the 300 targeted areas, then search em or shut up!

Why would anyone think that Natalee is in the ocean, map the area and then never do follow up? I will stop before my Italian temper comes out.
ummmmm. he's a media whore.

Lots of promises from the old guy, not much to show for all his fancy sonar and big toys.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 06:15:44 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

Well...Timmy waited so long that all the targets have probably shifted....

Tim will be able to find them... he traces the currents.

He can get`r done by Christmas. (2040?)

::MonkeyBike::
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Look at me... I`m tracing a current.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 23, 2010, 06:18:29 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

LOL - you mean Louis Shaeffer's boat? ::MonkeyJnBox:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::  Mebbe they are waiting on Silvetti's millions to get there?


I heard him say last night that they were ready to start the search in as soon as two
weeks and could narrow the search down to 50 of those targets.  They had the boat
in Trinadad on standby.
So go for it Tim.  You shot your mouth off.  You said that you had $1.5 million
earmarked for the search for Natalee.  Go get her.  Quit pussyfootin' around.
We might even send you some more donations if you find her a second time.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 23, 2010, 06:22:30 PM
I am still sitting here  ::MonkeyNoNo:: my head . I can accept that it isn't Natalee. And not to sound cold or harsh, but now I don't give a damn who it is. I just cannot accept how this whole thing was MIShandled........ Shove that knife in a bit deeper and pull up! Take another little piece of my heart baby...... ARUBA SUCKS ASS! Nuke em.  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I am overwhelmed with sadness for the family of Natalee Holloway.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 06:25:22 PM
Red

I think one of my FP comments went directly to that SPAM file.  Would you please retrieve it.

Thanks

Janet

++++


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2010/11/23/confirmed-the-jaw-bone-found-in-aruba-does-not-belong-to-natalee-holloway/comment-page-1/#comment-2277914

Found it, saved from the dreaded clutches of the spam monster ;-)

Thanks Red.

If you or Klaas could retrieve another comment that went "poof" ... it would be appreciated.  I will really attempt to refrain from getting my two bits worth in again  today.  No promises regarding tomorrow.

Thanks

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 06:26:26 PM
Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 06:30:07 PM
I am still sitting here  ::MonkeyNoNo:: my head . I can accept that it isn't Natalee. And not to sound cold or harsh, but now I don't give a damn who it is. I just cannot accept how this whole thing was MIShandled........ Shove that knife in a bit deeper and pull up! Take another little piece of my heart baby...... ARUBA SUCKS ASS! Nuke em.  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I am overwhelmed with sadness for the family of Natalee Holloway.

If the identity of the jawbone is revealed ... I can rest assured Natalee's remains are not being withheld from her parents who desperately want to take her home.

At the same time ... another family will have been afforded closure regarding a loved one.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 06:30:37 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 06:32:31 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

I am at a loss for words and as most all of you know, that rarely happens.

The Persistance goes to Aruba 3 years ago and maps some 300 possible search sites. Are they actually searched, nah ... they go home.

I jaw bone is discovered in Aruba and suddenly all the clammer from Tim is that 300 areas were targeted in Aruba and that he and TES are going back to Aruba to search. Now that the jaw bone is determined not to be that of Natalee, the searches are off?

Um, what changed?

So the areas would only be searched if the jaw bone was Natalee's? Why was the mapping done in the first place if there was never any intention of actually searching what was mapped? Obviously every one can see how ignorant a premise that is.

If those who went on the persistance are so sure that she is in the water and one of the 300 targeted areas, then search em or shut up!

Why would anyone think that Natalee is in the ocean, map the area and then never do follow up? I will stop before my Italian temper comes out.

Yeah, that`s it right there... more of that. If you came to the dance... you better start wiggling your legs a little... or sit yer azz back down. Make like a Nike and Just Do It!

Spare us the lip-service. Right?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 23, 2010, 06:34:06 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 23, 2010, 06:34:21 PM
I was here about 1/2 an hour ago, had something typed out, computer went all loopy so I had to shut down & run a scan. I clicked on something while googling last night...at least now I know why my google translate wouldn't go through. All fixed.


I have a question for anyone that may know. My mind cannot get rid of the thought Joran laughed when the news of the mandible hit the media. Why laugh? Why? Does he know that there's no way for the jaw bone to wash ashore or something? It's made me think of something. Going back to the fisherman's hut break-in, and keeping in mind the fisherman's knife that was stolen:
1- Would a body burn faster if it were dismembered?
2- Were there any bonfires and/or regular fire that night?
3- Is there a place where the fisherman dump the fish waste?
4- If there is an "industrial sized" fish waste site, could Natalee have been dismembered and her blood/organs mixed with the fish waste?
5- Could her remains have been incinerated either by bonfire or another method then thrown into the sand or ocean? If so, wouldn't something stronger than a simple fire have to be used?
6- I do believe Natalee was thrown out to sea, but in the case that she may not have been, where could her body have been stored (if it wasn't dismembered right away) and not have left any trace evidence behind?

I believe Lorenzo is involved & have thought so since the beginning, I believe the Kalpoe's are just as much involved as Joran, I believe Paulus knew what happened & helped to dispose of Natalee in covering up the crime scene, I believe Anita is a wench that has never held her kids accountable and this is the outcome of her child rearing abilities, I believe the Aruban authorities are well aware of what Lorenzo did/does & are probably in on it - maybe even getting kickbacks so to speak, I believe Joran was a big part of making Lorenzo wealthy - as well as Paulus, I believe Aruban officials knew for YEARS what their island was beling used for and didn't do a damn thing about it (ie: sex trafficking, drug drop offs & pick ups, money laundering, etc), I believe Joran isn't afraid of a single thing and that is something that has been learned over the years therefore he hasn't a conscience, I believe alot of things in regards to Natalee's disappearance but one thing I know[/] for certain is that I'll never visit Aruba again.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that Joran's laughing at the notion that NH's jawbone was found.. suggests that he fully knows that (a) her body would never have been discovered there, or (b) her body is not able to be discovered.

Concerning Aruba...It is common knowledge that it is a money laundering island. It is also a transit spot for drug shipment. There is sex trafficking on the island. There is a strong Dutch presence on the island. Those who are politically connected or in the aforementioned trades are above the law. This case has always been about tourism, not NH, to Aruba. There must be good money to wash bad money.

Our theories change from time to time. Only the perpetrators (and peripheral players) of the crime know EXACTLY what happened that night.

I like this theory (of course, plus or minus some details):
*PVDS/JVDS at casino with NH and friends.
*J2K arrive about an hour before close of CnC
*Spiked/unspiked alcoholic drinks served to NH, compliments of JVDS. Taxi scheme departure with J2K + NH.
*J2K + NH drive around a bit..Drug(s) take effect. Arrive at: (A) Secluded, non-tourist spot (rock scene?) OR (B) SlootHome
*Sexual assault. NH expires at: (A) SlootHome, OR (B) K2 vehicle.
*Panic. PVDS contacted. Takes control of situation. (Alibis. Online chats, porn site downloads, etc..)
*Heavy, Awkward body is temporarily hidden.
*Late night communication(s)/sightings/withdrawls. 630AM phone call.
*Long, exhausting night. No school. No work.
*Poolside meeting. No Body / No Case.
*Paulus contacts Jacobs / Straaten.
*5-8PM Racquet Club / Gym Bag / Tennis Instructions. Bag of Evidence and meeting with Gottenbos (The Boat). Boat Disposal?
*1000PM Heads up given on BHT arrival.
*Group arrives, wild gooses around island. Game - already fixed.
*Disinformation campaign to confuse and mislead. Unexplainable ALE behavior.
*Blocked assistance by other outside accredited international agencies. Allows for less transparency.

The crime was fairly simple...
The cover-up has been never-ending...

Where is her body? The million dollar question...For me, ideas include: Incinerator, Sloot property, Ocean, Grave.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 06:38:43 PM
Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



Excellent post CBB.

Janet

++++++

Face to Face with Joran

Beth Holloway


'There is more to come … there is more to come.'

September, 2010

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/archief/de-confrontatie-tussen-beth-en-joran/




Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on November 23, 2010, 06:40:20 PM
I am terribly disappointed in the news.
The way this way handled, no surprise. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 06:54:14 PM
6:00 pm

Oh looky here, Ingmar.... this one has a wisdom tooth, and we know Natalee had hers removed.

I do believe we have ruled this out.

We don`t need to bring CNN into this.

Where is my phone, swa?

6:10 pm


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 06:56:42 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 23, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

I am at a loss for words and as most all of you know, that rarely happens.

The Persistance goes to Aruba 3 years ago and maps some 300 possible search sites. Are they actually searched, nah ... they go home.

I jaw bone is discovered in Aruba and suddenly all the clammer from Tim is that 300 areas were targeted in Aruba and that he and TES are going back to Aruba to search. Now that the jaw bone is determined not to be that of Natalee, the searches are off?

Um, what changed?

So the areas would only be searched if the jaw bone was Natalee's? Why was the mapping done in the first place if there was never any intention of actually searching what was mapped? Obviously every one can see how ignorant a premise that is.

If those who went on the persistance are so sure that she is in the water and one of the 300 targeted areas, then search em or shut up!

Why would anyone think that Natalee is in the ocean, map the area and then never do follow up? I will stop before my Italian temper comes out.

As I said before...Tim Miller may have the best intentions in the world, BUT..........................

He dropped the ball on the last search, though. Kinda seems like he was compromised as a person for the almighty dollar.

Kinda weird hearing him talk today about his old buddies (Schaeffer, Silvetti..might as well have thrown Kingman[OE] in there) due to the fact that they were all present during the search and allowed (intentionally or unintentionally) potential crucial evidence to get whisked away by the Aruban authorities. It was on their watch, right under their collective noses.

About the ocean search...
*Items were stolen from the huts, including large crab trap (cage).
*Joran admitted to a disposal at sea (whether believed or not). Gottenbos boat?
*Persistence goes to Aruba to search for a cage in the ocean with possible NH remains.
*They accomplished their mission. Persistence locates large crab trap in ocean (as sought).
*Trained experts (Kyle, Tim Miller) said that human remains, cloth/material appeared to be inside the cage.
*Aruba (stalls and) tells crew they need Holland assistance.
*Certain members were then removed from the vessel and deemed liabilities.
*Suspected shady characters boarded the Persistence, including HansMos.
*CAPSLOCKWIZARD appeared and began a disinformation campaign. (CAPSLOCKWIZARD was proved to be full of shit).
*ALE arrived in a smaller boat, dove the cage, recovered its contents, and left the scene.
*The trap was publicly deemed to be irrelevant and no further explanation (to date) has been given.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 07:00:47 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2345841784_52614dbecb_o.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap5.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap6.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 23, 2010, 07:04:43 PM
6:00 pm

Oh looky here, Ingmar.... this one has a wisdom tooth, and we know Natalee had hers removed.

I do believe we have ruled this out.

We don`t need to bring CNN into this.

Where is my phone, swa?

6:10 pm

Carpe --

NEWSFLASH:

Timmy and Turbo (the WonderDog) leaving Trinidad now to search entire ocean for Nat's teeth.
CAPSLOCKWIZARD, HansMos, and JanVanderStraaten will be coordinating the search effort from land.
All evidence will be driven to short by SteveCroes (Tattoo) and filed away by Dennis Jacobs (the Cornflake kid).

BUCKSHOT


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 23, 2010, 07:06:57 PM
6:00 pm

Oh looky here, Ingmar.... this one has a wisdom tooth, and we know Natalee had hers removed.

I do believe we have ruled this out.

We don`t need to bring CNN into this.

Where is my phone, swa?

6:10 pm

Carpe --

NEWSFLASH:

Timmy and Turbo (the WonderDog) leaving Trinidad now to search entire ocean for Nat's teeth.
CAPSLOCKWIZARD, HansMos, and JanVanderStraaten will be coordinating the search effort from land.
All evidence will be driven to shore by SteveCroes (Tattoo) and filed away by Dennis Jacobs (the Cornflake kid).

BUCKSHOT

Correction

 ::MonkeyBike:: ::MonkeyQuestion::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 07:10:04 PM
Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Natalee-Home.gif)
 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 23, 2010, 07:10:16 PM
ARUBA: The trap contained nothing more than EXOTIC DEEP WATER HERMIT CRABS, of the XTRA LARGE MUTANT BREED.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 07:14:34 PM
Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Natalee-Home.gif)
 

Oh CBB you say it so well.  My heart is just broken.  All day I have been thinking about Matt.  This just all makes me so angry and more determined than ever to tell everyone I know to avoid Aruba at all cost.

Lifting all of Natalee's family in my prayers. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 07:25:49 PM
Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Natalee-Home.gif)
 

YOU GO GIRL        ::monkeywine2:: ::MonkeyCheer4:: ::MonkeyJnBox::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 07:28:01 PM
I like this theory (of course, plus or minus some details):
*PVDS/JVDS at casino with NH and friends.
*J2K arrive about an hour before close of CnC
*Spiked/unspiked alcoholic drinks served to NH, compliments of JVDS. Taxi scheme departure with J2K + NH.
*J2K + NH drive around a bit..Drug(s) take effect. Arrive at: (A) Secluded, non-tourist spot (rock scene?) OR (B) SlootHome
*Sexual assault. NH expires at: (A) SlootHome, OR (B) K2 vehicle.
*Panic. PVDS contacted. Takes control of situation. (Alibis. Online chats, porn site downloads, etc..)
*Heavy, Awkward body is temporarily hidden.
*Late night communication(s)/sightings/withdrawls. 630AM phone call.
*Long, exhausting night. No school. No work.
*Poolside meeting. No Body / No Case.
*Paulus contacts Jacobs / Straaten.
*5-8PM Racquet Club / Gym Bag / Tennis Instructions. Bag of Evidence and meeting with Gottenbos (The Boat). Boat Disposal?
*1000PM Heads up given on BHT arrival.
*Group arrives, wild gooses around island. Game - already fixed.
*Disinformation campaign to confuse and mislead. Unexplainable ALE behavior.
*Blocked assistance by other outside accredited international agencies. Allows for less transparency.

The crime was fairly simple...
The cover-up has been never-ending...

Where is her body? The million dollar question...For me, ideas include: Incinerator, Sloot property, Ocean, Grave.


Sloot property!!!
Remember how protective they were of the property when Greta went there? They wouldn't allow anyone on the property! I betcha that's where she is, all safe and sound and Joran knows no one will ever be allowed to search there.
That's why he laughed. He knew it was a media frenzy dead end.
There must be some kind of geological sonar machine that can x-ray that property.

As for Tim Miller. I was on to him years ago and got blasted for speaking against him in the monkey cage. Leonard Padilla is kind to Tim even though he was on to Tim years ago too when he messed up the Anthony search.
Thank you all who jumped my sh!t years ago and pushed me into hiding. heh. Happy Thanksgiving too.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 07:32:33 PM
Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/Natalee-Home.gif)
 

Rant on CBB!  Rant on!

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Ono on November 23, 2010, 07:33:17 PM
Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



 ::MonkeyCool::  Good post.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 07:34:46 PM
I am so upset. :(   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. :(

KKthy, thanks for doing the right thing in regards to the jawbone.  I know this hurts you also.  It is just so awful what that island "ARUBA" hell-hole did to the parents of murdered young girl Natalee.

I am going to ask a question so please don't think I am passing judgment on you or your friends cause I really am not.  Here goes...............After witnessing what you did today and the last week and seeing how your heart is broken along with the family of Natalee, Would you hesitate in going to Aruba the next time or would you have 2nd thoughts after what you witnessed for yourself?

I am so upset at how they teased Beth.  But hay, She still has about 40 years to go (and we are right there with her).


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 07:36:29 PM
ARUBA: The trap contained nothing more than EXOTIC DEEP WATER HERMIT CRABS, of the XTRA LARGE MUTANT BREED.




private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #897 on: December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM
» 

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab.[/color

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.880


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 23, 2010, 07:38:11 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/Untitled.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 23, 2010, 07:38:28 PM
I like this theory (of course, plus or minus some details):
*PVDS/JVDS at casino with NH and friends.
*J2K arrive about an hour before close of CnC
*Spiked/unspiked alcoholic drinks served to NH, compliments of JVDS. Taxi scheme departure with J2K + NH.
*J2K + NH drive around a bit..Drug(s) take effect. Arrive at: (A) Secluded, non-tourist spot (rock scene?) OR (B) SlootHome
*Sexual assault. NH expires at: (A) SlootHome, OR (B) K2 vehicle.
*Panic. PVDS contacted. Takes control of situation. (Alibis. Online chats, porn site downloads, etc..)
*Heavy, Awkward body is temporarily hidden.
*Late night communication(s)/sightings/withdrawls. 630AM phone call.
*Long, exhausting night. No school. No work.
*Poolside meeting. No Body / No Case.
*Paulus contacts Jacobs / Straaten.
*5-8PM Racquet Club / Gym Bag / Tennis Instructions. Bag of Evidence and meeting with Gottenbos (The Boat). Boat Disposal?
*1000PM Heads up given on BHT arrival.
*Group arrives, wild gooses around island. Game - already fixed.
*Disinformation campaign to confuse and mislead. Unexplainable ALE behavior.
*Blocked assistance by other outside accredited international agencies. Allows for less transparency.

The crime was fairly simple...
The cover-up has been never-ending...

Where is her body? The million dollar question...For me, ideas include: Incinerator, Sloot property, Ocean, Grave.


Sloot property!!!
Remember how protective they were of the property when Greta went there? They wouldn't allow anyone on the property! I betcha that's where she is, all safe and sound and Joran knows no one will ever be allowed to search there.
That's why he laughed. He knew it was a media frenzy dead end.
There must be some kind of geological sonar machine that can x-ray that property.

As for Tim Miller. I was on to him years ago and got blasted for speaking against him in the monkey cage. Leonard Padilla is kind to Tim even though he was on to Tim years ago too when he messed up the Anthony search.
Thank you all who jumped my sh!t years ago and pushed me into hiding. heh. Happy Thanksgiving too.


Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 23, 2010, 07:38:36 PM
Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

I am at a loss for words and as most all of you know, that rarely happens.

The Persistance goes to Aruba 3 years ago and maps some 300 possible search sites. Are they actually searched, nah ... they go home.

I jaw bone is discovered in Aruba and suddenly all the clammer from Tim is that 300 areas were targeted in Aruba and that he and TES are going back to Aruba to search. Now that the jaw bone is determined not to be that of Natalee, the searches are off?

Um, what changed?

So the areas would only be searched if the jaw bone was Natalee's? Why was the mapping done in the first place if there was never any intention of actually searching what was mapped? Obviously every one can see how ignorant a premise that is.

If those who went on the persistance are so sure that she is in the water and one of the 300 targeted areas, then search em or shut up!

Why would anyone think that Natalee is in the ocean, map the area and then never do follow up? I will stop before my Italian temper comes out.
OMG how many times do I have to ask - Why are they not sitll searching the water and the "trap"?  They were only going to search if it was deemed Nat's?

I am beginning to wonder if she was cremated?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 07:41:25 PM
Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.

Thanks Wreck...very well said.  I am outraged at Tim's latest actions but in the past he was a very different man....or at least his intentions were.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 07:46:11 PM
Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.

Thanks Wreck...very well said.  I am outraged at Tim's latest actions but in the past he was a very different man....or at least his intentions were.

I agree with both of you. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 07:51:34 PM
Blonde - Glenda lies so if she says JQK was notified yesterday I'm sure he wasn't.  She is a worthless pile.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 07:51:48 PM

Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2345841784_52614dbecb_o.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap5.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap6.jpg)


The Analysis

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman
:  .... I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kermit



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 07:54:17 PM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.

Agreed Muffy is why it is such a struggle to understand what happened.  As i said somehow i think he got lost if im saying that right. 

For jjinthemorning


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 07:57:21 PM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

JJ - Tim miller may have lost his way but he has had many success stories.  We may not like what he did in Aruba with the ocean search but nothing will take away the good he has done in recovering the bodies of many missing people.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 23, 2010, 07:57:47 PM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

This is not completely true. TES has done many searches in the past on cases that never make the news. They have been a part of sucessful searches, the MSM just never thought the cases were worth covering.

That does not mean that I have to scratch my heads in how some of the higher profile cases were dealt with.


Forjjinthemorning

Bumping this post up from Red, who has worked with Tim Miller.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 07:58:34 PM
Nancy Grace Time (HLN)!!

Janet
5:00 PM


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 08:00:32 PM

Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.
Dude, it's no biggie. I didn't realize Red was an elbow girl. Yeah, Tim evolved. That's kind of you to say.
I never said anything about hate, not my words, thanks though.
Settle down, it's the holidays.

I never questioned Tim's drinking. I always questioned his integrity and professionalism. I just hope he knows that he does more harm than help in 2 major cases, this one and the Anthony case. He did harm. Part of the 12 steps is to realize he has a problem first.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 23, 2010, 08:03:30 PM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

This is not completely true. TES has done many searches in the past on cases that never make the news. They have been a part of sucessful searches, the MSM just never thought the cases were worth covering.

That does not mean that I have to scratch my heads in how some of the higher profile cases were dealt with.


Forjjinthemorning

Bumping this post up from Red, who has worked with Tim Miller.
Don't be offended Red!
Many of us are frustrated.
An organization is only as good as it's leadership and TES has a problem.
United Way has never recovered from their "good" deeds either.

I think there are many good people out there doing many good things. I appreciate those who have worked hard to do the right thing.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 08:03:44 PM
Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.

Thanks Wreck...very well said.  I am outraged at Tim's latest actions but in the past he was a very different man....or at least his intentions were.

I agree with both of you.  

I would agree as well. Not even close to being the same and it sadens me. I have been to hell and back with Tim and I am speechless at some of the things that have happened recently.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 23, 2010, 08:03:44 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/Untitled.jpg)


It makes me sick and it makes me hate Aruba even more that the OM's office
 would let Renho know anything at all before they let Beth know.  She has no
right to their inside information.  She has done as much to waylay the case as
anybody.  I hope that lightening strikes her as she flies on her broomstick.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kiwi on November 23, 2010, 08:04:19 PM
Holland needs to follow up the DNA scan and profile the jaw bone.  They need to determine how long its been in the water and who it is. This could be helpful down the road just to calculate rates of decomp to time in the ocean. To just stop investigating is pretty backward. If they find who this is they could actually map movements with currents and tracking. Unless there is just too many bones washing ashore in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 08:06:31 PM

Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.
Dude, it's no biggie. I didn't realize Red was an elbow girl. Yeah, Tim evolved. That's kind of you to say.
I never said anything about hate, not my words, thanks though.
Settle down, it's the holidays.

I never questioned Tim's drinking. I always questioned his integrity and professionalism. I just hope he knows that he does more harm than help in 2 major cases, this one and the Anthony case. He did harm. Part of the 12 steps is to realize he has a problem first.



Respectfully I disagree with you.  But I wont contribute to this conversation anymore. 

This is about Natalee.  The best thing that could happen for me is that Natalee is found and those that are responsible will be punished.  They say the best things come to those who wait...and I'm waiting!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 08:06:36 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/Untitled.jpg)

Wow Glenda continually knows everything that has anything to do with Aruba or the search for Natalee before it even happens. Bet Glenda could tell us when the last time Anita took a dump was and did her sh1t float or sink.  Maybe the FBI should be picking her up and giving her a nice welcome with a little water torture as she surely knows where to find Natalee if she knows so much. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 08:07:38 PM
The dumbasses apologists are alive and well on the Nancy Grace show ... Aruba should learn their lesson from this. WHAT!!!

How many Mulligans do these F'ers get!!!

If Nancy Grace was hosting she would have blasted the IDIOT.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 23, 2010, 08:07:59 PM

Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.
Dude, it's no biggie. I didn't realize Red was an elbow girl. Yeah, Tim evolved. That's kind of you to say.
I never said anything about hate, not my words, thanks though.
Settle down, it's the holidays.

I never questioned Tim's drinking. I always questioned his integrity and professionalism. I just hope he knows that he does more harm than help in 2 major cases, this one and the Anthony case. He did harm. Part of the 12 steps is to realize he has a problem first.


"elbow girl"??????? WTH  ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 08:09:52 PM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

This is not completely true. TES has done many searches in the past on cases that never make the news. They have been a part of sucessful searches, the MSM just never thought the cases were worth covering.

That does not mean that I have to scratch my heads in how some of the higher profile cases were dealt with.


Forjjinthemorning

Bumping this post up from Red, who has worked with Tim Miller.
Don't be offended Red!
Many of us are frustrated.
An organization is only as good as it's leadership and TES has a problem.
United Way has never recovered from their "good" deeds either.

I think there are many good people out there doing many good things. I appreciate those who have worked hard to do the right thing.

Those good people out there doing the right thing have probably screwed up a few times along the way. 

I hope someday Tim takes a step back and regains his focus.  But I'll never take away the good he has given many families -- not even on his worst days.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 08:10:45 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2345841784_52614dbecb_o.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap5.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap6.jpg)

Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.











c.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 08:16:53 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 08:23:54 PM
Natalee Holloway: Disappointment in Aruba

WIAT--Birmingham, AL
A tense night of waiting after investigators staged a news conference to release results of testing done on human remains found in Aruba.But, it was to be another day of disappointment for the family of Natalee Holloway. More than five years and counting...without answers to the disappearance of Mountain Brook teenager, Natalee Holloway. A glimmer of hope quickly faded with the news:  the jawbone found by tourists in Aruba does not match Holloway's dental records.
Jossy Monsur, editor of the Aruban newspaper El Diario, says Arubans want answers as much as the Holloway family.
“In Aruba, they would like to see closure to it, because of many reasons one of them because of the negative publicity that has arisen for the island with regards to this case. The people think that by perhaps having it solved or bringing closure to the case, not closure to an unsolved case, but closure with evidence whatever that may be and whenever that may come up,” he says. 
In the United States, frustration and disappointment from Beth Holloway, her attorney, John Q. Kelly released this statement:

“Beth accepts the forensic conclusion, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."
For now, the Holloway case remains open, and now Aruban authorities have another investigation to tackle...who does the jawbone belong to?  This mystery may prove more challenging, as Natalee Holloway is the *only* open missing persons case in Aruba

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Natalee-Holloway-Disappointment-in-Aruba/dYjVVjymyUC2yR__o0m7TQ.cspx


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
Kyle's depiction and my diagonal measurement based upon the actual estimated size of this trap.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/trapdiag.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: KYcat on November 23, 2010, 08:26:35 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/Untitled.jpg)
WARNING Graphic Rant ..... I will only rant this once....

WOW!  REALLY!  This deserves a great big FU  I am continually amazed at the ignorance of people in this world.  Gee, Zed, maybe Beth and Dave did deserve a call from the ass-wipe island or the nasty netherlands (doesn't even deserve to be capitalized).  I mean, really, they were asked to send over Natalee's dental records to see if it could SPECIFICALLY be her.  How many other families of young, white, females, missing off of aruba were awaiting confirmation? I don't know, maybe it's just me, but hell YEAH they deserved to be notified.  Not only did they deserve this simple consideration they were OWED this much.  JQK should not have to call on his own dime to find out, which I seriously doubt that he did, just because ho says so.  We all know the whole lot of them are clueless, bumbling idiots, but now I have to say they are totally ignorant. 

 ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 08:27:58 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?


Thanks Klaas   ::MonkeyCool::  Bitting my tongue since it's been such a long day.

I still cannot believe the news today....so many emotions just running wild.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 23, 2010, 08:28:26 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2345841784_52614dbecb_o.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap5.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap6.jpg)

Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.

c.

Well it is my opinion that it was a skull in that cage.  So much so that the Aruban divers when down and collected its contents.  Why bother to collect it if it was nothing.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 08:30:04 PM
Has it been confirmed that Taco Stein said that even if it was her that wouldn`t help the investigation?

What a walloping douche-bag, if so.

If he said that - I always knew they were FOS... but that is just another confirmation that
all of them are sewer rats.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 08:31:10 PM
Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.

c.

Well it is my opinion that it was a skull in that cage.  So much so that the Aruban divers when down and collected its contents.  Why bother to collect it if it was nothing.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3.jpg)


And don't forget Tim Miller said they (ALE) came back after 6 weeks and said it was a male.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: KYcat on November 23, 2010, 08:31:44 PM
Has it been confirmed that Taco Stein said that even if it was her that wouldn`t help the investigation?

What a walloping douche-bag, if so.

If he said that - I always knew they were FOS... but that is just another confirmation that
all of them are sewer rats.

Heard it with my own two little ears.

 ::rhino::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 23, 2010, 08:33:37 PM
The TES stats ARE - 900 searches - 200 recoveries.

Facts are Facts -

Tim Miller has done more than any other SAR group.

All that said - can't stand him any longer.

But to sweep his accomplishment under the rug is wrong.

BTW JJ - every time I post to you - I should add - you're a disrespectful kook.

You would have thought you would have toned it down after the last time I said it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 08:35:10 PM
Has it been confirmed that Taco Stein said that even if it was her that wouldn`t help the investigation?

What a walloping douche-bag, if so.

If he said that - I always knew they were FOS... but that is just another confirmation that
all of them are sewer rats.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/11/natalee-holloway-jawbone-aruba/1


---snipped---

Stein says the molar in the jawbone was a wisdom tooth and that Holloway's wisdom teeth had been removed.

He says he has no leads in the Holloway case and that even if a match had been found with Holloway, it would not bring authorities any closer to determining what happened to her.

---snipped-----




Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 08:36:32 PM
Has it been confirmed that Taco Stein said that even if it was her that wouldn`t help the investigation?

What a walloping douche-bag, if so.

If he said that - I always knew they were FOS... but that is just another confirmation that
all of them are sewer rats.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/11/natalee-holloway-jawbone-aruba/1


---snipped---

Stein says the molar in the jawbone was a wisdom tooth and that Holloway's wisdom teeth had been removed.

He says he has no leads in the Holloway case and that even if a match had been found with Holloway, it would not bring authorities any closer to determining what happened to her.

---snipped-----



(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/ScrewAruba.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Leroy on November 23, 2010, 08:37:38 PM
The TES stats ARE - 900 searches - 200 recoveries.

Facts are Facts -

Tim Miller has done more than any other SAR group.

All that said - can't stand him any longer.

But to sweep his accomplishment under the rug is wrong.


BTW JJ - every time I post to you - I should add - you're a disrespectful kook.

You would have thought you would have toned it down after the last time I said it.

Get outta my head Rob!!  So good to *see* you....hope all is well.  And thanks for always being the voice of reason   ::MonkeyAngel:: 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Judge Mental on November 23, 2010, 08:38:05 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Jaw%20Bone%20found/Untitled.jpg)
WARNING Graphic Rant ..... I will only rant this once....

WOW!  REALLY!  This deserves a great big FU  I am continually amazed at the ignorance of people in this world.  Gee, Zed, maybe Beth and Dave did deserve a call from the ass-wipe island or the nasty netherlands (doesn't even deserve to be capitalized).  I mean, really, they were asked to send over Natalee's dental records to see if it could SPECIFICALLY be her.  How many other families of young, white, females, missing off of aruba were awaiting confirmation? I don't know, maybe it's just me, but hell YEAH they deserved to be notified.  Not only did they deserve this simple consideration they were OWED this much.  JQK should not have to call on his own dime to find out, which I seriously doubt that he did, just because ho says so.  We all know the whole lot of them are clueless, bumbling idiots, but now I have to say they are totally ignorant. 

 ::MonkeyMad::

Bravo!  But I have to say this...  I can (almost) excuse cluelessness and ignorance, but this goes far beyond.  This - the way they treat this family - is just pure mean and evil.  They apparently enjoy toying with them and torturing them.  This was not done out of ignorance.  It was by design.  IMO
 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 08:38:56 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is.  ::MonkeyEek::

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Puzzler on November 23, 2010, 08:42:02 PM
kkthy - What Aruba (the prosecutors office) has done now is made most of us HATE ARUBA even more.  They could have simply come out and said it was not Natalee.  Why make such a big deal out of it if it was not Natalee.  They knew this weekend it was not Natalee.  It is just this type of cruel thing Aruba continues to do to the Holloway family.  It is because of people protecting tourism and Joran van der Sloot that now Stephany Flores is dead.  When will it all end?  I say louder than ever BOYCOTT ARUBA - IT IS NOT A SAFE PLACE.

Totally agree.  Just plain cruel and the maddening part is the cruelty appears to be on done on purpose.  There is no excuse whatsoever for this type of sick manipulation of the family and the rest of the world. 

Karma - what goes round comes round!  A hell of their own making is coming around to them...the sooner, the better IMO!!



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 08:42:22 PM
Out of curiousity, does Peru allow knee-capping in their prisons? How about waterboarding? That would wipe the smirk off the SOB's face and the "little sporter" would be singing like a bird.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Northern Rose on November 23, 2010, 08:42:34 PM
<snipped>

Aruba's attorney general, Taco Stein, told The Associated Press that officials do not know how old the bone is or where it might have come from.

"It's anybody's guess," he said. "We're a small island."


http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1441910&lang=eng_news

What kind of an answer is that?  We're a small island......

not too small to have Natalee disappear from there and the Aruba keystone cops can not find her on that small island because they don't want to. Not too small to have so much baggage that the whole flippin island should sink from the weight of all the guilty consciences involved to this day one way or another in not allowing Beth and Dave to have closure and bring Natalee home.

Ok Taco, if it is a small island then dig the whole thing up. Aircraft carrier full of backhoes (as opposed to Glenda Hos) and bulldozers should do it.  Should only take a week and lets see what is found. Should not be an inconvenience as it is a small island....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 08:45:29 PM

<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open  and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2345841784_52614dbecb_o.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap5.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap6.jpg)

Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.

c.

Well it is my opinion that it was a skull in that cage.  So much so that the Aruban divers when down and collected its contents.  Why bother to collect it if it was nothing.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3.jpg)


EXACTLY, and according to Tim Miller....

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/CageRemains_ArubaReportsMaleDNA_Lia.jpg)

Click on the picture below to hear what Tim Miller said....

HT Klaasend
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/th_TimMillerStephWatts21410TRAP-1.jpg) (http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/?action=view&current=TimMillerStephWatts21410TRAP-1.mp4)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 23, 2010, 08:46:04 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is.  ::MonkeyEek::

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.

"elbow girl" may actually top broke-back monkey....

 ::MonkeyLaugh::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 23, 2010, 08:53:45 PM
Out of curiousity, does Peru allow knee-capping in their prisons? How about waterboarding? That would wipe the smirk off the SOB's face and the "little sporter" would be singing like a bird.

Beth dared to go where the mother of this sicko would not go--To Peru and face him nose to nose.  Maybe Beth needs to have a sit down with Anita and deploy her to tell the truth.  What does it matter now.  Anita has a son in prison for a 2nd murder of a young girl and the youngest son is on his way to being Joran Jr. AND Paulus has bit the dust.  Maybe it is time for Anita to come clean if she can find the time to devote to something other than partying. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 08:54:34 PM
Has it been confirmed that Taco Stein said that even if it was her that wouldn`t help the investigation?

What a walloping douche-bag, if so.

If he said that - I always knew they were FOS... but that is just another confirmation that
all of them are sewer rats.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/11/natalee-holloway-jawbone-aruba/1


---snipped---

Stein says the molar in the jawbone was a wisdom tooth and that Holloway's wisdom teeth had been removed.

He says he has no leads in the Holloway case and that even if a match had been found with Holloway, it would not bring authorities any closer to determining what happened to her.

---snipped-----




Thanks -

I remember back when Hans said they needed a confession. They got that, discounted it, raised the bar.

They do it every time.

That`s how I know they are not just inept... they are sadistic corrupt pieces of sh in need of a nice fat ass JDAM dropped on them. It is by DESIGN. From Jan Van der sloppen right on through to this very day.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 23, 2010, 08:54:40 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is.  ::MonkeyEek::

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.

"elbow girl" may actually top broke-back monkey....

 ::MonkeyLaugh::



 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 08:55:11 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is.  ::MonkeyEek::

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.

"elbow girl" may actually top broke-back monkey....

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

No kidding Rob. Could I have at least have been called an "elbow" Monkey?

Geez, OT ... was contacted by KUSI news about the airport pat-downs. Seems that they want me on Monday morning. I think they are out of San Diego. Is that where Steve Cohen wound up? Does any one remember?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 08:57:02 PM
Kyle's depiction and my diagonal measurement based upon the actual estimated size of this trap.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/trapdiag.jpg)

I bet Beth and Dave were thrilled when they saw Kyle's "depiction".


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 23, 2010, 08:58:12 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is.  ::MonkeyEek::

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.

"elbow girl" may actually top broke-back monkey....

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

No kidding Rob. Could I have at least have been called an "elbow" Monkey?

Geez, OT ... was contacted by KUSI news about the airport pat-downs. Seems that they want me on Monday morning. I think they are out of San Diego. Is that where Steve Cohen wound up? Does any one remember?
Yes, I believe so! ........... maybe he wants to "re-enact" a pat down with you!!  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 08:58:21 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is.  ::MonkeyEek::

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.

"elbow girl" may actually top broke-back monkey....

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

No kidding Rob. Could I have at least have been called an "elbow" Monkey?

Geez, OT ... was contacted by KUSI news about the airport pat-downs. Seems that they want me on Monday morning. I think they are out of San Diego. Is that where Steve Cohen wound up? Does any one remember?

Cohen came from San Diego before he was in Aruba.  Not sure where he ended up after Aruba, I forget.  I do know that conservative gay broadcaster Steve Yuhas is in San Diego.  He is the one who has said negative things about Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 08:59:23 PM
Who allows these fools to be on TV? Seriously, In Sessions you might want to reevaluate the lack of common sense and street smarts from your peeps.

Let me just be the first to say ... please put Joran Van der Sloot in general population.

Red has a better shot of being an "elbow" girl than JVDS does getting out alive.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 08:59:59 PM
Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.

c.

Well it is my opinion that it was a skull in that cage.  So much so that the Aruban divers when down and collected its contents.  Why bother to collect it if it was nothing.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3.jpg)


And don't forget Tim Miller said they (ALE) came back after 6 weeks and said it was a male.


Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 09:01:11 PM
RED

COHEN, Stephen J.    -  American residing in Aruba. Strategic Message Design Group (SMDG) Consulting Team chairman, adviser to the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA) and the Aruba Strategic Communications Task Force. Appeared on the Dr Phil Show in January 2006 as Aruba’s spokesperson claiming that 2 of the boys reported having sex with Natalee, and that J2K were guilty, after which he was severely reprimanded by Tourism Minister Briesen.  Has sister company to SMDG called Cohen DiLella Broadcast Group. Cohen now resides in California.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 09:03:18 PM
RED

COHEN, Stephen J.    -  American residing in Aruba. Strategic Message Design Group (SMDG) Consulting Team chairman, adviser to the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA) and the Aruba Strategic Communications Task Force. Appeared on the Dr Phil Show in January 2006 as Aruba’s spokesperson claiming that 2 of the boys reported having sex with Natalee, and that J2K were guilty, after which he was severely reprimanded by Tourism Minister Briesen.  Has sister company to SMDG called Cohen DiLella Broadcast Group. Cohen now resides in California.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/12/03/natalee-holloway-investigation-steve-cohen-appointed-as-spokes-person-for-aruba-let-the-spin-begin/

Steve Cohen has a long and illustrious career in the media. Veteran TV journalist Steve Cohen was most recently at KUSI in San Diego.

    For the past 20 months, Cohen has been producing low-budget movies and independent films in Los Angeles, in addition to doing consulting work related to TV news. His last TV station work was as general manager of Salt Lake City’s KTVX/Channel 4. The 56-year-old Cohen said he’s best known for being news director of WCBS/Channel 2 in New York City, KNXT/Channel 2 (before it became KCBS) in Los Angeles, KCOP/Channel 13, also in Los Angeles, and as general manager for CBS operations in his native Philadelphia.

It would also appear that he was was employed in his native Philadelphia as well. Interesting that AM Digital seemed to have left out that that Cohen served for several years as general manager of CBS’ Philly station, WCAU-TV. Steve Cohen was a executive connected to WCAU-TV in Philadelphia in the 1980s. He presented the station’s on-air editorials during that time.

As one of our posters has brought to our attention, (Hat Tip: Goon Squad), there appears to be a Philly connection in this story with regards to the Aruban Communication Strategic Task Force and its not Joe Mamamana. Seems that John Pauly, media consultant for The Aruba Task Force, and Steve Cohen worked for the same Philadelphia TV station WCAU-TV. It appears that John Pauly worked there in the 1980′s as well.

    Veteran TV news producer John Pauly, of the Main Line, who worked as Channel 10′s investigative reporter in the 1980s, has been working as an adviser to the Aruban Strategic Communications Task Force. Currently stateside, Pauly’s spent seven weeks in Aruba, and may go back next month to further serve as a media liaison with the Task Force, made up of government and tourism agencies. Pauly says print media and major TV networks have been mostly responsible, but that some outlets are airing unsubstantiated reports with reckless abandon.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Red on November 23, 2010, 09:05:39 PM
RED

COHEN, Stephen J.    -  American residing in Aruba. Strategic Message Design Group (SMDG) Consulting Team chairman, adviser to the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA) and the Aruba Strategic Communications Task Force. Appeared on the Dr Phil Show in January 2006 as Aruba’s spokesperson claiming that 2 of the boys reported having sex with Natalee, and that J2K were guilty, after which he was severely reprimanded by Tourism Minister Briesen.  Has sister company to SMDG called Cohen DiLella Broadcast Group. Cohen now resides in California.

Thanks Klaas, we've chatted since he left the AHATA spokesperson role over the years. As a matter of fact when you did that milk carton with his face on it, the where is Steve Cohen ... i got a prompt email, LOL.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 09:06:36 PM
I remember that Red  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 09:06:47 PM

Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.



Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet

+++++++


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007


I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:

<snipped>
 
Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

<snipped>

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 09:11:43 PM
http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Holloway-Mystery-Whats-Next/dYjVVjymyUC2yR__o0m7TQ.cspx

Holloway Mystery: What's Next
   Reported by: Shanisty Myers
Last Update: 7:46 pm


BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WIAT)
A tense night of waiting after investigators staged a news conference to release results of testing done on human remains found in Aruba.

But, it was to be another day of disappointment for the family of Natalee Holloway. More than five years and counting...without answers to the disappearance of Mountain Brook teenager, Natalee Holloway. A glimmer of hope quickly faded with the news:  the jawbone found by tourists in Aruba does not match Holloway's dental records.

Jossy Monsur, editor of the Aruban newspaper El Diario, says Arubans want answers as much as the Holloway family.

“In Aruba, they would like to see closure to it, because of many reasons one of them because of the negative publicity that has arisen for the island with regards to this case. The people think that by perhaps having it solved or bringing closure to the case, not closure to an unsolved case, but closure with evidence whatever that may be and whenever that may come up,” he says. 

In the United States, frustration and disappointment from Beth Holloway, her attorney, John Q. Kelly released this statement:

“Beth accepts the forensic conclusion, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

For now, the Holloway case remains open, and now Aruban authorities have another investigation to tackle...who does the jawbone belong to?  This mystery may prove more challenging, as Natalee Holloway is the *only* open missing persons case in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 23, 2010, 09:13:13 PM
ch-ch-ch ah check it out.... wha the wha the what's it all about... ::MonkeyDevil::

Aruba now has two unidentified sets of remains - so, tell me how was this a good day for Aruba?

The remains from the trap - an unidentifed male according to them and now a white female..

... and this is on top of all the other missing people

no wonder Stein thought it was a laffin' matter...

it's raining cadavers, body parts and these friggin' idiots have no clue which end is up...

ya'll come back now ....

come across... ::MonkeyTongue::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 09:15:32 PM
ch-ch-ch ah check it out.... wha the wha the what's it all about... ::MonkeyDevil::

Aruba now has two unidentified sets of remains - so, tell me how was this a good day for Aruba?

The remains from the trap - an unidentifed male according to them and now a white female..

... and this is on top of all the other missing people

no wonder Stein thought it was a laffin' matter...

it's raining cadavers, body parts and these friggin' idiots have no clue which end is up...

ya'll come back now ....

come across... ::MonkeyTongue::



They are claiming the rib bone was of a dog. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 23, 2010, 09:16:13 PM
Nimrod,

You know I have the utmost respect for you, and I hope you know how badly it hurt my heart the way things went.

That said, we both know you missed a lot of what Kyle told us.  We both also know that things went South in a hurry when we finally figured out he was out for $$$ rather than the humanitarian effort the whole thing was touted to be.

I'm not sure how much of our "Faces of Evil" series you were able to actively read as it was discovered and put together - but that combined with what Kyle told and showed us leaves no doubt in my mind about what ALE absconded with from that cage.

You hold a special place in my heart, my friend, and you always will.  But I cannot sit idly by while you post with only partial information to your credit.  ::MonkeyWaa:: :smt049  I appreciate your opinion, and miss terribly your thoughts.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 09:16:56 PM

Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.


Why would Aruban divers bag a crab?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 09:20:32 PM

Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.


Why would Aruban divers bag a crab?

Janet

To send it to Johan? ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 09:23:44 PM
Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.

c.

Well it is my opinion that it was a skull in that cage.  So much so that the Aruban divers when down and collected its contents.  Why bother to collect it if it was nothing.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3.jpg)


And don't forget Tim Miller said they (ALE) came back after 6 weeks and said it was a male.


Yeah, I've heard that Tim Miller said that. Have you ever seen a link where Aruba said that? I haven't either. When I  first heard that, I thought only Tim said that to excuse his original mistake.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 23, 2010, 09:26:17 PM
ch-ch-ch ah check it out.... wha the wha the what's it all about... ::MonkeyDevil::

Aruba now has two unidentified sets of remains - so, tell me how was this a good day for Aruba?

The remains from the trap - an unidentifed male according to them and now a white female..

... and this is on top of all the other missing people

no wonder Stein thought it was a laffin' matter...

it's raining cadavers, body parts and these friggin' idiots have no clue which end is up...

ya'll come back now ....

come across... ::MonkeyTongue::



They are claiming the rib bone was of a dog. 

The good news is Patches has been identified, his relatives all notified, the guilty rounded up, and charged. And justice will be brought down swiftly. This case which has literally haunted the good citizens of Aruba since Patches' dog collar was discovered on the beach is finally coming to a close.

Modern technology has allowed DNA to conclusively determine this was Patches. There will be a memorial service at the beach at the Phoenix followed by a buffet and free drinks courtesy of Aruba Today.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 23, 2010, 09:33:16 PM

Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.


Why would Aruban divers bag a crab?

Janet

To send it to Johan? ::MonkeyShocked::

Yeah he needs some crab balls.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 23, 2010, 09:34:51 PM
Good to see you Kermie!

You too up there Sharon!
 ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 23, 2010, 09:35:44 PM
My condolences to you Snoopy.
Make a scrapbook - it helps. One day you'll look back at it with such fond & wonderful memories.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 23, 2010, 09:36:13 PM
Good to see you Kermie!

You too up there Sharon!
 ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyKiss::

Heh Heh Ms. jen



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 09:37:02 PM

I bet Beth and Dave were thrilled when they saw Kyle's "depiction".

Considering Dave Holloway's ongoing relationship with Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer in regards to raising moneys for an ongoing search in Aruban waters to investigate 141 targets ... I suspect he is not a believer in what is perceived by many on this forum as the Persistence betrayal.

However ... Beth Holloway was informed of Kyle Kingman's posts which had been submitted to the Natalee Freebirds and ... after consultation and careful consideration gave permission for the info to be publicly released publicly.

Janet

++++++

WhiskeyGirl
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2008, 09:19:47 AM »


More from John ~

Quote from: Debbie

John, what can we do to insure that the search is completed?

<snipped>


Quote from: jdsurveyor1

The important thing is to raise funds.  It will require corporate support as well as private donations.  Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world.

<snipped>.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.40


Debbie
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
« Reply #598 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
»

Okay... there was/is no conspiracy with the Persistence.  Louis, John, Tim and Dave are trying to get the funds to complete the search on the targets.... they are working together. 
 
Slam me, bash me, I don't care, but it is the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg845027;topicseen#msg845027


klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:


Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 09:40:12 PM

Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.


Why would Aruban divers bag a crab?

Janet

To send it to Johan? ::MonkeyShocked::

I thought the FBI looked at the "blue denin". Also, how long does blue denin stay blue in salt water?

Who said it was a crab?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on November 23, 2010, 09:40:56 PM
I remember that Red  ::MonkeyCool::
So do I. Now that was a funny one. There were plenty of them, but that was one of the top ten.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 09:45:57 PM

And don't forget Tim Miller said they (ALE) came back after 6 weeks and said it was a male.


Yeah, I've heard that Tim Miller said that. Have you ever seen a link where Aruba said that? I haven't either. When I  first heard that, I thought only Tim said that to excuse his original mistake.


STEPH WATTS AND TIM MILLER INVERVIEW

The Trap

February 14, 2010 - Male DNA


http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/02/15/watts-up-with-this

Tim Miller: 

Aruba authorities dove on it and … six weeks later they said that the DNA came back as a male.

So, did we find Natalee?  I don’t know. It certainly looked like her clothes in that fish trap and again we know the night that Natalee disappeared the fisherman’s huts was broken into the knife was stolen; the big fish trap was stolen. 

It’s ironic we found one and I’ve actually got the pictures of that... you know that certainly appears to be a body in that fish trap.

Transcript: Kermit


February 28, 2010 - Backtrack

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/03/01/watts-up-with-this

Tim Miller:

We don't know really know we can't say positively sure it was human remains we've got some pictures that made us wonder.

John Silvetti doesn't feel 100% that it was.  That is why John wants to go back to search we just got mixed messages on that and perhaps we over-reacted on that what we seen at the time looked suspcious.

I can't say positive one way or another what it was.

Transcript: Kermit


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 09:47:59 PM
I remember that Red  ::MonkeyCool::
So do I. Now that was a funny one. There were plenty of them, but that was one of the top ten.

4 years later and it is still FRESH! Steve Cohen, what a jackass. ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/stevecohen.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 09:49:30 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 09:54:03 PM

Whoa! You weren't alone in questioning Tim and his drinking, but MANY of us had enough respect for the MANY good things he had done in the past to grant him more than just a little lee way. Mainly out of respect to Red who worked elbow to elbow with Tim in the sordid garbage dump of Aruba. I think it is safe to say THAT Tim Miller is different than the Tim Miller that has evolved today. If you are going to blast us for being protective of Tim, so be it -but, I would just hope that if you hate it here so much - just stay away.
Dude, it's no biggie. I didn't realize Red was an elbow girl. Yeah, Tim evolved. That's kind of you to say.
I never said anything about hate, not my words, thanks though.
Settle down, it's the holidays.

I never questioned Tim's drinking. I always questioned his integrity and professionalism. I just hope he knows that he does more harm than help in 2 major cases, this one and the Anthony case. He did harm. Part of the 12 steps is to realize he has a problem first. 

JJ be real careful how you word your posts. I believe you are on shaky ground here.  ::MonkeyNoNo::
No biggie? Settle down, it's the holidays? Elbow girl? It might be a game to you, but the rest of us have an emotional investment here.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 23, 2010, 09:55:45 PM

Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.


Why would Aruban divers bag a crab?

Janet

To send it to Johan? ::MonkeyShocked::

I thought the FBI looked at the "blue denin". Also, how long does blue denin stay blue in salt water?

Who said it was a crab?

The FBI only looked at a piece of fabric that Aruba sent them and said that it didn't
match Natalee's blouse.
I think good blue denim stays blue forever until it is gone.

And...it was Johan who said it was a crab.....a giant Caribbean crab.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 09:58:32 PM
My condolences to you Snoopy.
Make a scrapbook - it helps. One day you'll look back at it with such fond & wonderful memories.



Same here Snoopy. I was so sorry to here about the loss of your furbaby. My heart breaks for you. I too lost my dog at the end of October, she was 13. Glad to see you are still spending time here. It helps to be with friends.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 10:00:26 PM

I bet Beth and Dave were thrilled when they saw Kyle's "depiction".

Considering Dave Holloway's ongoing relationship with Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer in regards to raising moneys for an ongoing search in Aruban waters to investigate 141 targets ... I suspect he is not a believer in what is perceived by many on this forum as the Persistence betrayal.

However ... Beth Holloway was informed of Kyle Kingman's posts which had been submitted to the Natalee Freebirds and ... after consultation and careful consideration gave permission for the info to be publicly released publicly.

Janet

++++++

WhiskeyGirl
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2008, 09:19:47 AM »


More from John ~

Quote from: Debbie

John, what can we do to insure that the search is completed?

<snipped>


Quote from: jdsurveyor1

The important thing is to raise funds.  It will require corporate support as well as private donations.  Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world.

<snipped>.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.40


Debbie
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
« Reply #598 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
»

Okay... there was/is no conspiracy with the Persistence.  Louis, John, Tim and Dave are trying to get the funds to complete the search on the targets.... they are working together. 
 
Slam me, bash me, I don't care, but it is the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg845027;topicseen#msg845027


klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:


Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

Hi gang. Good show.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:02:51 PM
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 23, 2010, 10:06:25 PM
::MonkeyNoNo::

Yeah I hear ya Texasmom.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 10:12:33 PM
::MonkeyNoNo::

Yeah I hear ya Texasmom.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Um-hum.........   ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 10:15:24 PM
Salt water sets color in fabric. The skirt would have remained blue denim.

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf857381.tip.html


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 10:17:26 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:19:22 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Nimrod - do you think the technology of sonar scans has changed at all thru the years?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 10:20:48 PM
There are many shades of blue denim, but I've always thought that Nat's skirt dry would look the shade of bue in the bag when wet. It also looks like the same approx. size to me.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/NatDance.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 10:28:49 PM
There are many shades of blue denim, but I've always thought that Nat's skirt dry would look the shade of bue in the bag when wet. It also looks like the same approx. size to me.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/NatDance.jpg)

Another view:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3569/3320144389_a7a02d2cf8.jpg)


Cropped and Enlarged:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3544/3349400733_f050287b44.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 10:31:41 PM
Thanks, Lifesong!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 10:32:13 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Yes.

I want to know if there was a possibility that your daughter's remains in that trap and you read Kyle Kingman's account regarding the happenings encompassing the unchallenged recovery of the contents by ONLY Aruban divers ... would you be upholding John Silvetti or going up one side of him and down the other?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 10:34:53 PM

I did some research on the effects of salt water on denim back in March, 2009.

By 2005 most denim skirts contained a percentage of lycra/spandex material (as I recall anywhere from 3% to 30%, depending on the garment).

Lycra/spandex materials contain a fiber called PBT:

PBT: Polybutylene terephthalate is a texturised polyester filament yarn with properties of stretch and elasticity. PBT has higher stretch and recovery compared to standard polyester types and this property is also improved by special texturing conditions. The exceptional stretch and recovery of PBT are achieved through high elastic shrinkage in finishing processes. The amount of stretch depends on the amount of PBT used and the fabric construction. PBT is also resistant to alkalis, salt water and chlorinated water. (POLY-tera)

http://www.polyteks.com/index.asp?Lang=EN&subject=sozluk


I can dig through my notes some more, if necessary.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 10:45:52 PM
http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=5386&offId=0&offDate=2010-11

Papiamentu translation:

4 hora happen | fecha: 23/11/2010 | horario: 19:36

(http://www.awe24.com/_moblog_items/5386/2_1290557402.jpg)

the child muher here is being busca of morning ela leave cu uniform of school y till still parents not know where the is neither owing to mire more

atencion!!: is searching isabella bennett of e.p.b. san nicolas. morning ela leave for bay school y the not owing to arrive school neither his cas still. that cu can owing to wake or know where the can is please jama police come across


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 10:48:04 PM

I did some research on the effects of salt water on denim back in March, 2009.

By 2005 most denim skirts contained a percentage of lycra/spandex material (as I recall anywhere from 3% to 30%, depending on the garment).

Lycra/spandex materials contain a fiber called PBT:

PBT: Polybutylene terephthalate is a texturised polyester filament yarn with properties of stretch and elasticity. PBT has higher stretch and recovery compared to standard polyester types and this property is also improved by special texturing conditions. The exceptional stretch and recovery of PBT are achieved through high elastic shrinkage in finishing processes. The amount of stretch depends on the amount of PBT used and the fabric construction. PBT is also resistant to alkalis, salt water and chlorinated water. (POLY-tera)

http://www.polyteks.com/index.asp?Lang=EN&subject=sozluk


I can dig through my notes some more, if necessary.


Thanks lifesong. It's not necessary for me. My Grandmother used to wash new clothes in salt water first thing if she thought the item was likely to fade or bleed. I adopted the practice and it works like a charm. All those navy and white striped polo shirts my son had stayed navy and white.   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 10:48:57 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Nimrod - do you think the technology of sonar scans has changed at all thru the years?

Of course, its changed drastically. Why do you ask?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 10:49:25 PM

When Kermit first posted the pictures, I saw the hip bone immediately in this picture:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3569/3320144389_a7a02d2cf8.jpg)


I asked for it to be enlarged, here it is, cropped and 300%:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3442/3369461418_ddcd185257_z.jpg?zz=1)


And a hip socket comparison was posted:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/3360705882_ca75153e38.jpg)


In my opinion, that's a skirt wrapped around hip and pelvic bones.

Again, in my opinion.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 23, 2010, 10:51:21 PM

I did some research on the effects of salt water on denim back in March, 2009.

By 2005 most denim skirts contained a percentage of lycra/spandex material (as I recall anywhere from 3% to 30%, depending on the garment).

Lycra/spandex materials contain a fiber called PBT:

PBT: Polybutylene terephthalate is a texturised polyester filament yarn with properties of stretch and elasticity. PBT has higher stretch and recovery compared to standard polyester types and this property is also improved by special texturing conditions. The exceptional stretch and recovery of PBT are achieved through high elastic shrinkage in finishing processes. The amount of stretch depends on the amount of PBT used and the fabric construction. PBT is also resistant to alkalis, salt water and chlorinated water. (POLY-tera)

http://www.polyteks.com/index.asp?Lang=EN&subject=sozluk


I can dig through my notes some more, if necessary.


Thanks lifesong. It's not necessary for me. My Grandmother used to wash new clothes in salt water first thing if she thought the item was likely to fade or bleed. I adopted the practice and it works like a charm. All those navy and white striped polo shirts my son had stayed navy and white.   ::MonkeyWink::


I wish I'd known that the last 25 years!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks, CBB!
 ::MonkeyGavel::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 23, 2010, 10:55:06 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Nimrod - do you think the technology of sonar scans has changed at all thru the years?

Of course, its changed drastically. Why do you ask?

I ask because Kyle may have experience with sonar equipment you have never worked with.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 10:58:14 PM
Thank you Kermit.  I hope you have a wonderful day of Thanksgiving.  I know I have a lot to be thankful for.  Especially after seeing all the cruel things Natalee's family has had to endure from Aruba.  I really don't have any problems.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:00:10 PM

I did some research on the effects of salt water on denim back in March, 2009.

By 2005 most denim skirts contained a percentage of lycra/spandex material (as I recall anywhere from 3% to 30%, depending on the garment).

Lycra/spandex materials contain a fiber called PBT:

PBT: Polybutylene terephthalate is a texturised polyester filament yarn with properties of stretch and elasticity. PBT has higher stretch and recovery compared to standard polyester types and this property is also improved by special texturing conditions. The exceptional stretch and recovery of PBT are achieved through high elastic shrinkage in finishing processes. The amount of stretch depends on the amount of PBT used and the fabric construction. PBT is also resistant to alkalis, salt water and chlorinated water. (POLY-tera)

http://www.polyteks.com/index.asp?Lang=EN&subject=sozluk


I can dig through my notes some more, if necessary.


Thanks lifesong. It's not necessary for me. My Grandmother used to wash new clothes in salt water first thing if she thought the item was likely to fade or bleed. I adopted the practice and it works like a charm. All those navy and white striped polo shirts my son had stayed navy and white.   ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

CBB you age me.  It was not just my grandmothers but my mother who used to soak colored cottons in salt water when they were new.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: KYcat on November 23, 2010, 11:11:46 PM
Does anyone else think that if an American tourist finds a bone on ass-wipe island they just need to bring it on home and turn it in to the FBI


 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 11:12:14 PM
Thank you Boomonkey.  I'm sorry you lost your dog too.

I'll always believe that Natalee was in that trap.  I thought that perhaps that the authorities were going to give Beth and Dave a "token" if you will so they would go away.  Wrong again.  They are just beyond foolish and cruel.  I've never seen anything like this.

And to know for several days that it wasn't Natalee, and didn't even have the decency to notify the family before telling the world.............well they can kiss my arse.

P.S.  God Bless the Freebirds.  Ya'll are amazing people.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 11:12:36 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Yes.

I want to know if there was a possibility that your daughter's remains in that trap and you read Kyle Kingman's account regarding the happenings encompassing the unchallenged recovery of the contents by ONLY Aruban divers ... would you be upholding John Silvetti or going up one side of him and down the other?

Janet

Janet, I'd be going up one side of him and down the other. I still wonder why Beth and Dave didn't do the same. I''m totally disgusted with the persistence and their crew including Kyle and even somewhat with Tim.
I still have serious doubts that Natalee was ever in that trap. What got me started today was that a lot of people here are saying that Natalee was in that trap without anyone challenging it. I still think she could be anywhere.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 11:14:01 PM
KYcat I'd figure out a way to get it to the F.B.I.  Prolly Fedex it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:14:27 PM

When Kermit first posted the pictures, I saw the hip bone immediately in this picture:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3569/3320144389_a7a02d2cf8.jpg)


I asked for it to be enlarged, here it is, cropped and 300%:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3442/3369461418_ddcd185257_z.jpg?zz=1)


And a hip socket comparison was posted:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/3360705882_ca75153e38.jpg)


In my opinion, that's a skirt wrapped around hip and pelvic bones.

Again, in my opinion.


It's been a while since I've seen that Lifesong. My opinion is the same as yours.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: KYcat on November 23, 2010, 11:15:49 PM
KYcat I'd figure out a way to get it to the F.B.I.  Prolly Fedex it.

You're one smart    ::dogwag::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:16:13 PM
Does anyone else think that if an American tourist finds a bone on ass-wipe island they just need to bring it on home and turn it in to the FBI


 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Y-E-S !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:16:21 PM
Thank you Kermit.  I hope you have a wonderful day of Thanksgiving.  I know I have a lot to be thankful for.  Especially after seeing all the cruel things Natalee's family has had to endure from Aruba.  I really don't have any problems.

Nevertheless ... your family has lost a much loved member and ... Snoopy will be missed.  I believe that Kermit suggestion regarding the creation of a Snoopy album should be considered.  The sting will fade in time but ... rejoicing in precious memories can help fill the void.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Janet

 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 23, 2010, 11:23:45 PM
Anybody who still goes to Aruba after seeing how they have tortured the Holloway family for 5+ years... needs an urgent mental evaluation. Perhaps Darwin is still right on point
with natural selection?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:26:36 PM
RED

COHEN, Stephen J.    -  American residing in Aruba. Strategic Message Design Group (SMDG) Consulting Team chairman, adviser to the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA) and the Aruba Strategic Communications Task Force. Appeared on the Dr Phil Show in January 2006 as Aruba’s spokesperson claiming that 2 of the boys reported having sex with Natalee, and that J2K were guilty, after which he was severely reprimanded by Tourism Minister Briesen.  Has sister company to SMDG called Cohen DiLella Broadcast Group. Cohen now resides in California.

DiLella, as in Robert DiLella????  I knew that name rang a bell.

http://www.smdginc.com/company/dilella.cfm


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 23, 2010, 11:27:33 PM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Nimrod - do you think the technology of sonar scans has changed at all thru the years?

Of course, its changed drastically. Why do you ask?

I ask because Kyle may have experience with sonar equipment you have never worked with.

I'm sure that he does. The questions I have are really nothing about sonar but about Kyle's interpretations of photos that I assume are the same ones that I have looked at. Nothing more.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:34:09 PM
Anybody who still goes to Aruba after seeing how they have tortured the Holloway family for 5+ years... needs an urgent mental evaluation. Perhaps Darwin is still right on point
with natural selection?

Ever since I saw the movie "Jaws" I've been afraid of sharks in the water. In Aruban waters, I'd be afraid of skeletons. Just sayin'.....


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: KYcat on November 23, 2010, 11:37:32 PM
I am praying that joran spends the rest of his miserable life in jail, however long that maybe, but not before he is PERSUADED in a most vicious and violent manner to tell the truth and give us back Natalee.
Yeah, I said it.  I meant it.  Just MOO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:40:21 PM
I am praying that joran spends the rest of his miserable life in jail, however long that maybe, but not before he is PERSUADED in a most vicious and violent manner to tell the truth and give us back Natalee.
Yeah, I said it.  I meant it.  Just MOO


I've hoped for that too. I just want the terms to be "Your life in exchange for results"

Then if Natalee is returned, they can say "I lied".


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 23, 2010, 11:41:08 PM
Anybody who still goes to Aruba after seeing how they have tortured the Holloway family for 5+ years... needs an urgent mental evaluation. Perhaps Darwin is still right on point
with natural selection?

Ever since I saw the movie "Jaws" I've been afraid of sharks in the water. In Aruban waters, I'd be afraid of skeletons. Just sayin'.....

And the sharks on land.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

But I'll NEVER have to worry about either, thank goodness.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 11:44:26 PM
My nephew who loved Aruba and never could understand why I was always so set on never going on a cruise that went to Aruba finally gets it.  He couldn't believe that they made the family wait on the results.  This thing is gonna snowball big time.  This is far from over.  They've gone to hell in a handbasket and nobody cares.  Cruel fools.

Janet thank you.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 23, 2010, 11:47:21 PM
The day is coming when Joran regrets the day he was born and begs to die.  That is his future.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 23, 2010, 11:52:20 PM

I want to know if there was a possibility that your daughter's remains in that trap and you read Kyle Kingman's account regarding the happenings encompassing the unchallenged recovery of the contents by ONLY Aruban divers ... would you be upholding John Silvetti or going up one side of him and down the other?

Janet

Janet, I'd be going up one side of him and down the other. I still wonder why Beth and Dave didn't do the same. I''m totally disgusted with the persistence and their crew including Kyle and even somewhat with Tim.
 
I still have serious doubts that Natalee was ever in that trap. What got me started today was that a lot of people here are saying that Natalee was in that trap without anyone challenging it. I still think she could be anywhere.

The ship's sonar/ROV operator/analyst freely reveals in his own words in post after post after post his genuine concerns regarding the happenings encompassing the trap ... happenings that has nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway ... nothing to do with providing closure for the family.

The ship's sonar/ROV operator/analyst freely reveals that Natalee Holloway's remains could possibly have been in that trap and recovered unchallenged by the Aruban enemy ... the Aruban enemy who refused to extend an invitation to the FBI to observe the process.

Kyle provides backup in the form of ROV images ... ROV images that he had felt compelled to forward to the FBI prior to sharing on the Natalee Freebirds' forum.

Nimrod ... why should I doubt Kyle Kingman account?  Unless ROV footage of the December 29th and 30th dives as well as the January 7th recovery dive are exposed  and reveal for certainty that Natalee Holloway's remains were not in that trap ... I cannot move on.

Sincerely, Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 23, 2010, 11:53:08 PM
My nephew who loved Aruba and never could understand why I was always so set on never going on a cruise that went to Aruba finally gets it.  He couldn't believe that they made the family wait on the results.  This thing is gonna snowball big time.  This is far from over.  They've gone to hell in a handbasket and nobody cares.  Cruel fools.

Janet thank you.

I hope it snowballs, Snoopy. Like you, I think the cruelty around this has reached a lot of people that haven't been following the case closely. The window into their world keeps getting bigger......


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 23, 2010, 11:59:20 PM
RED

COHEN, Stephen J.    -  American residing in Aruba. Strategic Message Design Group (SMDG) Consulting Team chairman, adviser to the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA) and the Aruba Strategic Communications Task Force. Appeared on the Dr Phil Show in January 2006 as Aruba’s spokesperson claiming that 2 of the boys reported having sex with Natalee, and that J2K were guilty, after which he was severely reprimanded by Tourism Minister Briesen.  Has sister company to SMDG called Cohen DiLella Broadcast Group. Cohen now resides in California.

DiLella, as in Robert DiLella????  I knew that name rang a bell.

http://www.smdginc.com/company/dilella.cfm

(http://www.smdginc.com/images/company/dilella.jpg)

Robert DiLella has been part of more than 300 political and public affairs campaigns from Grenada to Georgia Curacao to California.

In 1982, Mr. DiLella serves as a staff member for Matt Reese and Associates assisting campaigns in Tennessee, Georgia, Virginia, Michigan and Nevada.

He later joined Cook Reuf and Associates a South Carolina based advertising and public relations firm. DiLella was the Director of the Political Division in the Washington DC
Office where he developed communications plans for public office in Georgia, South Carolina, New Mexico, Delaware New Jersey and Alabama. He also represented several corporations thrust into the political arena in initiative and referenda throughout the United States.

In 1987 DiLella founded Strategic Message Design Group Inc. to assist political parties candidates and corporations in their public affairs efforts.

In 1989 he helped Aruba’s Movimento di Pueblo (MEP) upset the government party despite a severe funding shortage and odds against them being 10 to 1.“The Miracle in Aruba was featured in Newsweek and Campaign & Elections.

DiLella also served as General Consultant to the Partido Antia Restructructura (PAR
Party in Curacao and the successful election of Prime Minister Miguel Pourier.
In the United States Strategic Message Design Group has compiled an over 85% success rate in its candidate and issue campaigns.

Strategic Message Design Group Inc. has served as consultant to Senator John Rockefeller ,of West Virginia, Congressman Chaka Fattah of Pennsylvania Mayor Lois Frankel of West Palm Beach, Mayor Lori Moseley of Miramar Florida and  John Rayson Mayor of Pompano Beach Florida  to name a few.

SMDG has also provided consulting services to the Ohio House Democratic Caucus, North Carolina House Democratic Caucus and the Illinois House Caucus.

Robert DiLella has lectured on various aspects of political management and Communication at George Washington University and the Latin American and Caribbean Center at Florida Atlantic University including conferences held in Brazil, Miami, Ecuador and Venezuela.

Mr. DiLella is a graduate of Glassboro State College (Rowan University) and is a member of the American Association of Political Consultants.

http://www.smdginc.com/company/dilella.cfm


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 12:04:09 AM
I am praying that joran spends the rest of his miserable life in jail, however long that maybe, but not before he is PERSUADED in a most vicious and violent manner to tell the truth and give us back Natalee.
Yeah, I said it.  I meant it.  Just MOO


I've hoped for that too. I just want the terms to be "Your life in exchange for results"

Then if Natalee is returned, they can say "I lied".

It made me sick earlier when I heard Jinkasaurus talk about the other prisoners reactions at Castro Castro when she asked them about Joran.  She said that they considered him a "brother" I think was the term she used.  And she also said that even if/when he goes into general population...he will be in the foreigners section of general population where a lot of Dutch prisoners reside.  With all of Anita's efforts to "help" the Dutch prisoner population, he'll be the big man on the cell block!  ughhhhh!
 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 12:06:10 AM
The day is coming when Joran regrets the day he was born and begs to die.  That is his future.

I hope you're right, and I hope it's soon!

If it's not soon, I at least hope he KNOWS that day is coming!



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 24, 2010, 12:08:38 AM
Don't worry texasmom.  His day is coming.  He'll never leave Castro Castro alive.  JMHO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on November 24, 2010, 12:14:42 AM
Out of curiousity, does Peru allow knee-capping in their prisons? How about waterboarding? That would wipe the smirk off the SOB's face and the "little sporter" would be singing like a bird.

I'd vote that nothing goes in his mouth until he spits out the truth.  That, and take his TP away and unplug that hole and let the rats in.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Sleuth on November 24, 2010, 12:29:08 AM
The hole in the floor...don't get any ideas..


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 12:38:04 AM
NANCY GRACE
Jawbone Found Not Natalee Holloway`s
Aired November 23, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET


PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Yes, and that`s a bone of contention with Beth Twitty. And I want to tell you that we are very grateful to have Linda Allison with us, who is Natalee Holloway`s aunt. And you are the sister of Dave Holloway, her father. Please tell us your reaction. And I`m sorry about the results and what it must mean to your family. But tell us what you think.

LINDA ALLISON, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S AUNT (via telephone): Well, I did get a chance to talk to Dave several times today, and we were just -- the anxiety was unbelievable this morning, anticipating what the results were going to be. And we, you know, just again, were almost flabbergasted to hear the news at the same time that everybody else did, that there was no phone call made prior to Dave and Robin or to Beth saying, you know, We`ve gotten the results and it`s not Natalee`s DNA.  And so we were just kind of really shocked about the way that it was handled. And I know Dave and Robin are really disappointed and were looking for some closure, and it didn`t happen today.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/23/ng.01.html



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 12:40:33 AM
Good Night All

 ::HelloKitty::

Janet
9:40 PM PT


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 24, 2010, 12:53:49 AM
Sleuth  too funny.  I read that and thought wow she's really upset because she doesn't talk like that. lol

No way did JQK get a phone call on the 22nd and not notify Beth.  And no way would Beth have neglected to call Dave.  Me thinks Glenda is a liar.  But we already knew that.  JMO

Good night Janet.  Sleep tight.   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: GabbyG on November 24, 2010, 01:11:31 AM
Ya know, I haven't been able to think about anything else since the announcement was made. So many things have been running through my head, and intertwined with ALL of them is the question...over and over again...HOW STUPID can those people be???!!??  Did they not recognize the opportunity to take the first step towards righting a massive wrong done towards an innocent young girl and her family by their stinking filthy island and most of its inhabitants and how that would have most definitely been to their advantage??  Did they not recognize that by admitting the jaw bone was Natalee's and making the first move towards letting her come home that they could have begun the long process of possible redemption for that God forsaken island? Only possible, yes, but they would have benefited SO much more by doing that then by what they chose to do instead. I just can NOT wrap my head around the fact that out of allll the people involved in making the decision to say it was not Natalee, there was not one...not ONE person in the entire bunch who had the good sense to see how far giving her remains back to her family would have gone towards beginning the process of getting to the end of this nightmare, which they must surely want as much as we do! Or...are they just so full of ignorance and hate and everything evil that redemption just doesn't matter to them?  Do they not understand that giving her back to her family is the only way there will ever be any small minute chance of salvaging the remains of their tourism? It is so hard for me to comprehend that out of all those involved in this fiasco today (since the jaw bone was found, actually) there is/was not one person with a humane heart, with the good sense to know they had been offered an opportunity to turn all the negatives into a positive, finally, by letting Natalee come home. Or possibly they are each too afraid for him/herself, too frightened to speak up and against those who still want to deny everything, to continue the corruption at all cost. As for myself, I believe that it is Natalee's remains. I believe that the reason they set up the announcement the way they did, all the hoop la around making the announcement, was because at some point they DID intend to give her back, but something got in the way, something caused them to change their minds. Perhaps cowardice, knowing what would lie ahead if they did finally acknowledge her murder on their one happy island? Knowing that many of their necks would be on the chopping block, knowing that they would HAVE to make someone pay, they would have to expose those who were involved, including the coverup?

Okay, even if it really isn't Nataalee, they still could have handled this entire situation with a bit of grace and dignity by showing Beth and Dave the respect rightfully due them by letting them know the results privately. Instead they just dropped their pants and showed their collective asses! Did it not matter to them, the way they would look to the entire watching world or are they so stupid, so cold and calculating, that they just didn't even realize what they should have done? Was it not important enough to save face as best they could? The way they handled this just blows me away!! The way they acted as if Beth and Dave were just part of the everyday population waiting for the results. My God in Heaven! It just proves to me that there is not one decent heart in that entire bunch of crooks that call themselves Aruba's leaders. I am an adult, I have seen many things in my lifetime but I don't think I have ever been so overwhelmed with evil and corruption as I have been today from those spawn of the devil himself. There is a simple cliche that is very appropriate for all of them. To each one I say..Shame On You!  Shame.On.You.All. for now and always. Karma is real, and apparently they still are not recognizing it even as it is crashing down around their heads. One little step in a positive direction could have begun the process of turning things around for that sorry island, but they are all too proud, too corrupt, too afraid of the consequences, and yes..too stupid, to take that step so they will continue to get exactly what they deserve, and may each day be worse than the day before.

Ok, stepping down off my soap box now, but still sitting here shaking my head in disbelief.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 24, 2010, 01:28:56 AM
Just received one of the books I ordered through Amazon.com link on this page (helping the forum). One is a 1000+- page history on "The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt". Have read about 60 pages in the middle of the book about the Spanish American War. My grandpa was a Rough Rider with TR and caught malaria there. Still have his ribbon that has a metal at the bottom with his unit on it and a brass coin like thing at the bottom that says "Remember the Maine"and his sword plus a handkerchief, fan from Cuba.

It make a long story short, we need a TR type of guy or gal, plus some "Rough Riders" to visit Aruba and say give us Natalee or else. The "else" I am not sure of, but I'd sure like to see a bunch land there with full around the world press coverage. IMO

Justice for Natalee and for Stephany.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nana29 on November 24, 2010, 01:33:21 AM
I just needed to weigh in before I go to bed...all the thoughts I have had today have for the most part, been expressed by you all.

As a relative "newbie", I have been trying to read a bit each day and I will continue to read back thru the last 5 plus years   ...all I can say so far is , I am appalled!     ::MonkeyShocked::

I am not familiar enough with the history to go into any depth. What I can say is, I have seen  compassion and dedication from the lot of you towards Natalee and her family that goes beyond a lot of peoples capabilities.  How awesome is that?     ::MonkeyCheer4::
Thank you for making me part of this family.


What little info I have kept up with over time has (prior to joining SM) left me with a sour taste in my mouth. Now? Since everyone here has taken all the "good" bad word I can think of, I am left with, "What a bunch of goobers!"


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 24, 2010, 01:34:35 AM
Gabby, great, sock it to them. ::MonkeyGavel:: oh I thought this was a hammer not a gavel.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 01:37:11 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_kjjkik_1-1.jpg)

We'll be here for each tomorrow,
as we were today...
for as long as it takes.

We won't give up on you, Natalee!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 01:41:46 AM
I just needed to weigh in before I go to bed...all the thoughts I have had today have for the most part, been expressed by you all.

As a relative "newbie", I have been trying to read a bit each day and I will continue to read back thru the last 5 plus years   ...all I can say so far is , I am appalled!     ::MonkeyShocked::

I am not familiar enough with the history to go into any depth. What I can say is, I have seen  compassion and dedication from the lot of you towards Natalee and her family that goes beyond a lot of peoples capabilities.  How awesome is that?     ::MonkeyCheer4::
Thank you for making me part of this family.


What little info I have kept up with over time has (prior to joining SM) left me with a sour taste in my mouth. Now? Since everyone here has taken all the "good" bad word I can think of, I am left with, "What a bunch of goobers!"

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: I'm impressed Nana! After all this time, I thought I'd heard them called it all. I was wrong! I'm pretty sure you're the first to give them the "Goober" title!   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nana29 on November 24, 2010, 01:48:10 AM
I just needed to weigh in before I go to bed...all the thoughts I have had today have for the most part, been expressed by you all.

As a relative "newbie", I have been trying to read a bit each day and I will continue to read back thru the last 5 plus years   ...all I can say so far is , I am appalled!     ::MonkeyShocked::

I am not familiar enough with the history to go into any depth. What I can say is, I have seen  compassion and dedication from the lot of you towards Natalee and her family that goes beyond a lot of peoples capabilities.  How awesome is that?     ::MonkeyCheer4::
Thank you for making me part of this family.


What little info I have kept up with over time has (prior to joining SM) left me with a sour taste in my mouth. Now? Since everyone here has taken all the "good" bad word I can think of, I am left with, "What a bunch of goobers!"

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: I'm impressed Nana! After all this time, I thought I'd heard them called it all. I was wrong! I'm pretty sure you're the first to give them the "Goober" title!   ::MonkeyWink::


Thank you  CBB. I just really , as have you all, been blown away by this, and this was only my first "vigil". I want to be here when she comes home.
I checked in on my break at work(reg phone, although it took me a year to find out I could do that...) and was so glad we were slow and I got to leave early. I was so sad. Bless you monkeys, Bless Beth and Dave, and most of all, Natalee.   
Nite.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 01:56:43 AM
I just needed to weigh in before I go to bed...all the thoughts I have had today have for the most part, been expressed by you all.

As a relative "newbie", I have been trying to read a bit each day and I will continue to read back thru the last 5 plus years   ...all I can say so far is , I am appalled!     ::MonkeyShocked::

I am not familiar enough with the history to go into any depth. What I can say is, I have seen  compassion and dedication from the lot of you towards Natalee and her family that goes beyond a lot of peoples capabilities.  How awesome is that?     ::MonkeyCheer4::
Thank you for making me part of this family.


What little info I have kept up with over time has (prior to joining SM) left me with a sour taste in my mouth. Now? Since everyone here has taken all the "good" bad word I can think of, I am left with, "What a bunch of goobers!"

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: I'm impressed Nana! After all this time, I thought I'd heard them called it all. I was wrong! I'm pretty sure you're the first to give them the "Goober" title!   ::MonkeyWink::


Thank you  CBB. I just really , as have you all, been blown away by this, and this was only my first "vigil". I want to be here when she comes home.
I checked in on my break at work(reg phone, although it took me a year to find out I could do that...) and was so glad we were slow and I got to leave early. I was so sad. Bless you monkeys, Bless Beth and Dave, and most of all, Natalee.   
Nite.

I want you here too, Nana! All with good hearts and a mind to match belong here, so I'll save you a seat next to me anytime!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 01:59:45 AM
Waving goodnight to the rafters!  carpe noctem, GabbyG, hmj1978, snoopy, Magnolia, wreck, MAca, IBE and 11 Guests are viewing this topic.   ::HelloKitty::

If my adrenalin levels are on the way down from the fuming I gave them today, I'm going to try tocatch some zzzzzz's.
Love You All! Sleep Well and God Bless!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 24, 2010, 02:03:46 AM
Night CBB!!!!  ::HelloKitty::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 24, 2010, 02:10:43 AM
You really have to look long and
hard to find some good news!


It was nice to see that this asho got it again! He has been hit multiple times.

This braggadocious, overstuffed, flatulent,
bad joke cracking, sack of ratatouille.

Cap`n Anthony - the definition of a blowhard.

This is what happens when you let 1,000 Jorans go.

If you aren`t going to take care of business.

Business will eventually take care of you.



----
Anthony Hagedoorn Broke into my house again this morning, alarm did not stop the thugs from taking two lap top computers, a wallet and a purse before kicking the back door to a pulp to escape. That's just what Aruba has become, don't feel good leaving the house alone, don't feel good leaving my daughter home alone. Is there any reason I should stay on this rock feeling like this?
October 13 at 2:45am · Like · Comment
----

Anthony Hagedoorn Yearly bug got to me, not sick enough to stay in bed, not feeling good enough to go out. Happens every year this time, doc's going to give me that special receipt again.
October 28 at 2:02am · Like · Comment

Sebastian van der S likes this.

Anita Hugen A cognac with a raw egg does wonders!
October 28 at 3:51am ·
-----

Aruba is going to be getting a lot worse, Captain Twinkle Toes.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: msmarple on November 24, 2010, 03:28:51 AM
Time to resurrect this one ...

FUBARUBA!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: msmarple on November 24, 2010, 03:39:41 AM
Un-freaking-believable that the family wasn't privately notified. It isn't as though they had requested dozens of missing persons' dental records for comparison.

The presence or absence of wisdom teeth would be obvious at first glance. They needed five days for ... ?

One Crappy Island.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 04:27:19 AM
I know we've all heard and read this, but since this stuff is keeping me awake, I think it bears repeating.

Birmingham, AL (WIAT)- In light of the revelation that the jawbone found does not belong to her daughter, the mother of Natalee Holloway releases the following statement.


"Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted from the inexplicably long wait, and deeply disappointed in the time and manner in which she learned of the results. Apparently Aruban prosecutors were more sensitive to media concerns than the painful vigil of a mother."

John Q. Kelly, Attorney for Beth Holloway


http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Beth-Holloway-releases-statement/ycgpabf4TEyB5HpVZoCQDA.cspx?rss=1659


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 24, 2010, 06:38:09 AM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Yes.

I want to know if there was a possibility that your daughter's remains in that trap and you read Kyle Kingman's account regarding the happenings encompassing the unchallenged recovery of the contents by ONLY Aruban divers ... would you be upholding John Silvetti or going up one side of him and down the other?

Janet

Janet, I'd be going up one side of him and down the other. I still wonder why Beth and Dave didn't do the same. I''m totally disgusted with the persistence and their crew including Kyle and even somewhat with Tim.
I still have serious doubts that Natalee was ever in that trap. What got me started today was that a lot of people here are saying that Natalee was in that trap without anyone challenging it. I still think she could be anywhere.

I have said for a long time that I always thought Natalee was on land.  But when you look at those pictures in the cage you can tell it is someone.  You are getting angry at people because they feel it was Natalee in the cage.  We have read your opinions about the cage and it didn't change anyones mind.  After a long time of analyzing and much discussion about those pictures people have come to the conclusion was Natalee in the cage.  So by saying you were mad because people weren't challenging it is clearly wrong.  We did challenge and discuss it amongst ourselves.  What would you like us to do?  Do you want us all to say it's not Natalee in the cage just to make you feel better.  Our opinions differ on this one Nimrod.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 24, 2010, 07:35:22 AM
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:35 pm
Glenda wrote:

HATE ME! But, the Truth is the Truth:

The FBI unknowingly participated in the plot to coerce Joran to take the $250,000 reward to "tell the truth", just like we watched Beth offer the same to Depak on film nearly 5 years before who didn't take the bate. <<   ::MonkeyHaHa:: That's no typo....that is stupidity. >>   The FBI participated in the funding of Joran to Peru and they were on the plane with Joran to Peru. Joran's hallway had high-resolution video surveillance, yet the other hallways didn't. Joran was invited to Peru by the same man that reported Stephanie missing. 

Lexy Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:50 pm
Stop it, just stop, for the last five years you have been spreading your venom, you are also a bold faced liar and should seek out and attend a twelve step program.

Your truth is not the truth at all. 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on November 24, 2010, 07:51:26 AM
http://www.cbs42.com/mostpopular/story/Jawbone-doesnt-belong-to-Natalee-Holloway/Y-mZNmOStkC8d06ww4MHbw.cspx
Jawbone doesn't belong to Natalee Holloway
Last Update: 6:25 am

Birmingham, Al (WIAT) More than five years and still no answers to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The latest disappointment for family and friends of the Mountain Brook teen came on Aruba this morning.

The part of a jawbone tested by Dutch forensic investigators does not belong to Natalee. That was the announcement this morning by Aruban authorities in the island’s capital, Oranjestad.

The jawbone was found on the beach near the Phoenix Hotel resort and sent to the Netherlands for testing. The FBI provided Natalee’s dental records to Dutch investigators in an effort to bring some answers to the disappearance of the Alabama teen on a 2005 graduation trip to Aruba.
The agency says that an analysis based on dental records rules
out that the bone fragment came from her. It says forensic
scientists in the Netherlands conducted a detailed examination.
Officials said Tuesday that the jawbone is human. It is unclear
whom it belongs to.

Natalee was last seen leaving a bar in Oranjestad with Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. All three were questioned repeatedly by Aruban authorities five years ago but no one was ever charged with her disappearance. Joran van der Sloot is still considered the prime suspect.

Van der Sloot burst back into the headlines earlier this year when the corpse of a 21 year old Peruvian student was found in his Lima hotel room. Van der Sloot told Peruvian police he killed Stephany Flores when she found material relating to Natalee on his laptop. Stephany's body was discovered five years to the day of Natalee's 2005
disapearance.

Van der Sloot is still in Lima's Castro Castro prison while he fights to get that confession thrown out claiming coercion and police improprieties.

Castro Castro was the scene recently of a hidden camera confrontation between van der Sloot and Natalee's mother, Beth. The meeting was videotaped by a Dutch TV crew and turned into a two part special on Dutch television. Excerpts were also aired in this country by CBS shows THE INSIDER and ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT

Video at link.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: nimrod on November 24, 2010, 08:00:28 AM

Nimrod

I do believe that Kyle Kingman's professional expertise/qualifications in analysing  solar scan and ROV images should be the bottom line to whether or not the object within the trap may be a skull.

When you read all of Kyle Kingman's posts ... in a nutshell what is the picture that emerges regarding the Persistence search.

Thanks

Janet


BUMPED

Did you mean sonar and not solar? I asked because I was a sonarman for 4 years on two different US submarines.

Yes.

I want to know if there was a possibility that your daughter's remains in that trap and you read Kyle Kingman's account regarding the happenings encompassing the unchallenged recovery of the contents by ONLY Aruban divers ... would you be upholding John Silvetti or going up one side of him and down the other?

Janet

Janet, I'd be going up one side of him and down the other. I still wonder why Beth and Dave didn't do the same. I''m totally disgusted with the persistence and their crew including Kyle and even somewhat with Tim.
I still have serious doubts that Natalee was ever in that trap. What got me started today was that a lot of people here are saying that Natalee was in that trap without anyone challenging it. I still think she could be anywhere.

I have said for a long time that I always thought Natalee was on land.  But when you look at those pictures in the cage you can tell it is someone.  You are getting angry at people because they feel it was Natalee in the cage.  We have read your opinions about the cage and it didn't change anyones mind.  After a long time of analyzing and much discussion about those pictures people have come to the conclusion was Natalee in the cage.  So by saying you were mad because people weren't challenging it is clearly wrong.  We did challenge and discuss it amongst ourselves.  What would you like us to do?  Do you want us all to say it's not Natalee in the cage just to make you feel better.  Our opinions differ on this one Nimrod.

OK. Thanks


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 24, 2010, 08:22:00 AM
Good morning Monkeys.   ::HelloKitty::  I am totaly exhausted from yesterday.  One good thing to come out of this is:  It was all over every news channel last night how Taco Stein treated Beth and Dave by not notifying them before they did the general public.  People are disgusted by this action and AGAIN Aruba has shot itself in the foot.  Only this time the whole world watched and witnessed it personally and felt great anxioty about it.  How could they do this and expect people to come to their crime infested island and feel safe.  Aruba passed it off as a joke, a grudge against Beth.  Guess what Aruba we saw firsthand how "dirty" you are and we don't like it.  As someone else said earlier Karma does come around and you f'ked it up this time and you can't take it back.  May you all rot in hell.

BOYCOTT ARUBA.  BOYCOTT ARUBA.   BOYCOTT ARUBA.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 09:18:26 AM
Hear, Hear Blue Moon!  Karma's a bitch, and she's got her eye on that hell hole.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 24, 2010, 09:27:07 AM
Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:35 pm
Glenda wrote:

HATE ME! But, the Truth is the Truth:

The FBI unknowingly participated in the plot to coerce Joran to take the $250,000 reward to "tell the truth", just like we watched Beth offer the same to Depak on film nearly 5 years before who didn't take the bate. <<   ::MonkeyHaHa:: That's no typo....that is stupidity. >>   The FBI participated in the funding of Joran to Peru and they were on the plane with Joran to Peru. Joran's hallway had high-resolution video surveillance, yet the other hallways didn't. Joran was invited to Peru by the same man that reported Stephanie missing. 

Lexy Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:50 pm
Stop it, just stop, for the last five years you have been spreading your venom, you are also a bold faced liar and should seek out and attend a twelve step program.

Your truth is not the truth at all. 


The lighting in the hallway was different because they we just getting off the elevator.  The elevator area usually has much more lighting.

Enough with the lies already.  This woman has serious mental problems.  She leads a miserable life.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 24, 2010, 09:29:42 AM
Good morning Monkeys.   ::HelloKitty::  I am totaly exhausted from yesterday.  One good thing to come out of this is:  It was all over every news channel last night how Taco Stein treated Beth and Dave by not notifying them before they did the general public.  People are disgusted by this action and AGAIN Aruba has shot itself in the foot.  Only this time the whole world watched and witnessed it personally and felt great anxioty about it.  How could they do this and expect people to come to their crime infested island and feel safe.  Aruba passed it off as a joke, a grudge against Beth.  Guess what Aruba we saw firsthand how "dirty" you are and we don't like it.  As someone else said earlier Karma does come around and you f'ked it up this time and you can't take it back.  May you all rot in hell.

BOYCOTT ARUBA.  BOYCOTT ARUBA.   BOYCOTT ARUBA.

Great post Blue Moon.  When Hans Mos took over the case I thought he was a POS.  But now Taco Stein took his place.  Mos must be happy to relinquish that title.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: RoxiBalboa on November 24, 2010, 09:44:17 AM
Morning Monkeys! Happy Thanksgiving!

Someone mentioned a few pages back that the second bone was determined to be a dog's rib. So it takes them longer than a week to determine a jaw bone with a wisdom tooth does not belong to a missing Angel with no wisdom teeth but only about 24 hours to determine the second bone is a dog's rib? hmmmmm

I've been very upset this week, as have most everyone here, but I am optimistic after hearing that our FBI has Joran's hard drive. We need to cling to that. There is still hope. And I should ask, will any news on the Stephany Flores case be posted in this thread or do I need to be in a different thread? Thanks


Fixed the spelling in Stephany's name = San


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 24, 2010, 09:46:18 AM
Morning Monkeys! Happy Thanksgiving!

Someone mentioned a few pages back that the second bone was determined to be a dog's rib. So it takes them longer than a week to determine a jaw bone with a wisdom tooth does not belong to a missing Angel with no wisdom teeth but only about 24 hours to determine the second bone is a dog's rib? hmmmmm

I've been very upset this week, as have most everyone here, but I am optimistic after hearing that our FBI has Joran's hard drive. We need to cling to that. There is still hope. And I should ask, will any news on the Stephany Flores case be posted in this thread or do I need to be in a different thread? Thanks

If there is any news that comes out about Stephany Flores it will be posted in this thread.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 24, 2010, 09:51:24 AM
Do I have this straight?  After the jawbone was discovered, the area was NOT roped off NOR was it searched further for additional evidence?



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 09:54:42 AM
Do I have this straight?  After the jawbone was discovered, the area was NOT roped off NOR was it searched further for additional evidence?



That is almost correct.

Not only did they do NONE of those things - they had their annual "beach clean up day" the next day, and had "volunteers" clean remove everything from that beach.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 09:56:46 AM
 ::MonkeyDevil::


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/GlendaHopeless1RU112510.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cadillac on November 24, 2010, 10:03:39 AM
Do I have this straight?  After the jawbone was discovered, the area was NOT roped off NOR was it searched further for additional evidence?



That is almost correct.

Not only did they do NONE of those things - they had their annual "beach clean up day" the next day, and had "volunteers" clean remove everything from that beach.
This is beyond sad.  God bless Beth.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:11:02 AM
http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/e-weso-di-cachete-cu-diente-ta-bay-worde-compara-cu-posibel-otro-casonan-di-desaparicion-na-aruba/

Papiamentu translation:

the bone of cachete cu diente, is bay worde compara cu possible another casonan of desaparicion at aruba

publication: diaranson, 24 november 2010. categoria: general

(http://www.diario.aw/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/abogadotacostein-150x150.jpg)

according advocate general taco stein, *e another bone achieve close of westin, do not bone human

(http://www.diario.aw/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/nataleeholloway1-300x222.jpg)

oranjestaad(aan): after cu tuesday ministerio publico owing to anuncia cu the bone of cachete cu diente do not of natalee holloway, daily paper owing to interview advocate general (ag) of ministerio publico taco stein, for achieve know more rond of the investigacion on the material achieve at canto of sea. daily paper owing to ask about mr. stein kico is bay worde haci cu the bone, now cu owing to constata cu do not of natalee holloway.

e a.g. owing to splica cu past owing to ask cuerpo policial for check all the possible casonan of desaparicion of aruba, for so can compara the bone of cachete cu diente, cu datonan of the personanan cu will owing to desaparece at aruba.

stein owing to tell daily paper if cu the proceso is bit complica, mirando cu at aruba we not conoce much caso of desaparicion.

past owing to tell also cu mirando the mature cu during enough week we was have time enough bad, the question is stay, for of where the bone here owing to come.

daily paper owing to ask about stein if the testnan haci at nfi at the netherlands, can determina of cuanto time happen the bone is y past owing to tell cu not.

according to a.g., is practicamente impossible for determina of what time the bone is, but thing is assure is cu the is of enough time happen.

till even was have crecimento of coral on the bone, then is practicamente assure cu the is of at least 1 year bay upstairs.

daily paper owing to ask about stein if owing to haci test on the another bone achieve close of sea for one tourist y past owing to tell cu one patologo owing to show cu the bone do not one bone human.

daily paper owing to ask about the advocate general tocante the mature cu at television mericano they owing to tell cu they're achieve odd cu cuerpo policial not owing to close the area where the bone cu diente owing to worde achieve, for so investiga the area.

according stein, the bone owing to worde achieve diabierna y at once saturday autoridadnan owing to close the area y they owing to busca for possible more bone eybanda.

polisnan till even owing to bay duik y so owing to investiga bao of water also, for look at if can owing to achieve more material. nothing owing to worde achieve in the area. owing to ask about stein also kico the will owing to nifica, if was bone of natalee.

past owing to splica cu if will owing to achieve one confirmacion cu was bone of the child muher mericano, will was much good for his family cu is buscando ‘closure’. sinembargo for her caso self, the bone on his self not will can owing to give sufficient pista for arrive at conclusionnan on con the child muher owing to die.

unique cos cu will was assure is cu the is dead. daily paper owing to ask about stein con mother of natalee owing to worde informa y past owing to splica cu or.m did take contacto cu advocate mericano of sra beth twitty, esta john kelly y so owing to informe of the result of the testnan of nfi.

daily paper owing to ask about stein also of the rumornan cu owing to circula cu the bone now will worde send for curaçao y past owing to tell cu esey do not berdad.

curaçao same cu aruba not have the tecnologia y aparatonan for haci the type of testnan cu is rekeri. stein owing to tell cu thing if past owing to tell is cu mirando cu curaçao do not far of aruba, will can check the posibilidadnan cu quizas the bone can coresponde at one person perdi of curaçao, if not achieve one ‘match’ cu personanan perdi of aruba.

daily paper owing to ask about stein if is confirma cu the bone is of one child muher young y past owing to tell cu not. past owing to tell cu thing owing to worde constata is cu the bone is pertenece at one adult young, but not can worde tell cu seguridad cu is one child muher.

past owing to splica cu in we region have various type of breed of person live, cu various type of skelet y esey is hacie dificil for tell assure if the bone is of one man or muher


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 4 Donks on November 24, 2010, 10:14:06 AM
Due to the season of Thanksgiving I have been trying to find something in this cruel treatment of Natalee and her family to be thankful about.
Well here it comes...
The world had forgotten about the one happy island's justice and cruise ships are once again going there. Now the world has been shown loud and clear there are no safe ports there. They have destroyed their own tourism industry...KARMA.
Thank you Aruba. ::piggy::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 24, 2010, 10:23:26 AM
::MonkeyDevil::


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/GlendaHopeless1RU112510.jpg)

Good Morning Monks I finally got caught up!  thanks Klaas after reading some of the posts I needed a good laugh.....a big thanks to you, Wreck, Rob and Red.. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyKiss::.

ARUBA SUCKS  BOYCOTT ARUBA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 10:27:16 AM
good morning. I'm not really here yet (no coffee) but just had to say how much I love waking up to Glenda Slapdowns. I've got so much to do today and I dreaded it, but I'm starting it with a smile! Can we bottle that stuff? Maybe have a glenda slap emoticon?

Going to reread and make coffee......   ::CowWave::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 10:28:11 AM
In case anyone is still questioning the remains found in the fish trap, I took it upon myself to blow it up again. I hate to beat a dead horse here but the contents of the zip-locks do most certainly look like human bones and the fabric most certainly appears to be denim - blue denim. I can even see where it was rolled up a bit when placed into the baggy, showing the underside of the material - the side that is lighter.

Here's the picture blown up to 400% and cropped:

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee%20Holloway%20-%20New%20Folder/3320144389_a7a02d2cf8_color400.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:29:54 AM
advocate de hoogd is tell cu apparently banco central owing to sleep during 17 year


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

publication: diaranson, 24 november 2010. categoria: general

in caso stanford international bank: *abogado of bc is indica cu is show because; if fuera de hoogd is ‘stroman’ for hendenan misterioso

(http://www.diario.aw/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/interbank.jpg)

oranjestad (aan): tuesday daily paper because; unique medio of prensa was present at corte, where cu did take lugar continuacion of one caso among ‘stichting stanford aruba’ y banco central of aruba. the proceso among the two partidonan owing to cuminza for of enough time end, where cu several documento owing to worde intercambia among the partidonan y huez of corte of husticia. tuesday was the day place for her caso worde deal. is so cu stichting stanford aruba is one fundacion arise for one are of alrededor of 25 person perhudica door of stanford international bank (sib).

at 1992 stanford owing to acerca banco central of aruba for her achieve one licencia because; banco, but this owing to worde deny. via one another caminda past owing to succeed become activo on market of aruba. the banco was ofrece interest high (9% y mas), for person deposita they coin.

much person owing to haci this y at 2009 hour cu sib owing to cay in another, much person mundialmente owing to lose sumanan big of coin. at aruba also this was the caso then y provided that overall hendenan on the island owing to lose alrededor of 35 miyon dollar.

advocate gabri de hoogd owing to representa stichting stanford aruba (ssa) in name of the alrededor of 25 person perhudica. past owing to trece fast cu all the organizacion of stanford is in estado of bancarota y do not cla still if esnan perhudica will ricibi compensacion for thing they owing to lose.

past owing to tell if cu thing is assure is cu they will not achieve 100% of the coin cu they owing to inverti. ssa owing to cuminza the caso contra banco central, because according ssa, one of the rolnan more important of banco central is for ehecuta supervision y control on actividadnan of banco y of another instancianan financiero, according the ltk, cu is landsverordening toezicht kredietwezen (Credit System Supervision Ordinance).

the advocate owing to trece fast cu because; such banco central have to can owing to actua at time during the 17 añanan cu stanford owing to opera at aruba, for so evita thing owing to sosode.

banco central then have to as one view on all instancianan monetario of cual the actividadnan will can have one influencia on the stabilidad monetario y reputacion financiero of aruba. de hoogd owing to splica cu banco central was at height cu algo not was good cu stanford international bank.

according the advocate, proof of this is cu in amigoe of aruba owing to leave one articulo on 19 of feburary 2009, in cual have stop cu banco central for añanan largo was preocupa on stanford. de hoogd owing to tell cu provided that vez of haci algo, banco central owing to sleep during of 17 year y door of this several person at aruba owing to worde perhudica financieramente.

pesey ssa is buscando one compensacion of part of banco central, but esey will have to come fast in another procedura. banco central owing to worde representa for advocate allart haasjes that owing to come for of the netherlands y past owing to worde asisti for mr. anthony carlo.

banco central his sharp of view principal is cu the peticion of stichting stanford aruba have to worde declara not admisible. according the advocate, banco central not can worde poni responsible for her actonan of stanford international bank.

banco central not owing to give stanford the permission of opera because; banco. haasjes owing to cuestiona also the mature cu de hoogd is tell of representa one cantidad of person cu is part of the stichting, but till still none person know is that is all the personanan in the stichting.

according the advocate dutch, is show as de hoogd is actua because; ‘stroman’, for one are of person cu will have cierto motibonan dark for not give informacion of they self, incluyendo informacion financiero.

the advocate owing to tell also cu is possible cu one procedura is worde take away at corte in name of person cu do not existi. haasjes owing to tell also cu ssa not owing to trece fast at one as cla, in what sense banco central will owing to abort y kico banco central can owing to haci.

past owing to trece fast also cu banco central not was have the autoridad of actua contra stanford international bank. huez at end owing to tell cu the is bay give his veredicto day 26 of january.


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:31:33 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/


Done = San


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 10:34:58 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 10:42:47 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::
Just for the record...... I'm a kind mod. I'm just a slow, kind mod who knew if I did it, there would be two links when I did. Speedy Tyrrrrranical is here, you know. "Klaas FlashPan" suits her better.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 24, 2010, 10:47:02 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyDevil:: ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:54:26 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

I hope to goodness that I never ever do anything that even remotely resembles Johan! ::CowboySmiley::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::
Just for the record...... I'm a kind mod. I'm just a slow, kind mod who knew if I did it, there would be two links when I did. Speedy Tyrrrrranical is here, you know. "Klaas FlashPan" suits her better.

Just a little lot more coffee, and we'll be alright!   ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks for fixing my post Klaas!   ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 24, 2010, 11:01:15 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:09:54 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::
Just for the record...... I'm a kind mod. I'm just a slow, kind mod who knew if I did it, there would be two links when I did. Speedy Tyrrrrranical is here, you know. "Klaas FlashPan" suits her better.

Just a little lot more coffee, and we'll be alright!   ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks for fixing my post Klaas San!   ::MonkeyKiss::

I just assumed Klaas fixed it!  That's what I get for not looking!   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 11:10:55 AM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 11:14:07 AM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 24, 2010, 11:17:34 AM
Would a kind mod please add the link to the article I just posted...not enough coffee yet!
 :2redman:


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

Why don't you do like Johan and just tell us to google the link  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::
Just for the record...... I'm a kind mod. I'm just a slow, kind mod who knew if I did it, there would be two links when I did. Speedy Tyrrrrranical is here, you know. "Klaas FlashPan" suits her better.

Just a little lot more coffee, and we'll be alright!   ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks for fixing my post Klaas San!   ::MonkeyKiss::

I just assumed Klaas fixed it!  That's what I get for not looking!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

When I saw your request, I was about to comply, but thought I saw that Klaasend had fixed it.  Maybe I was seeing things....which isn't a bad thing for me!     ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.


Thanks, CBB!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Sister on November 24, 2010, 11:23:19 AM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.
Tater, when dealing with evil . . . stoning seems fair to me, but that's JMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 11:24:03 AM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:27:14 AM
Thanks Nut44x4, and Klaas for the laughs about "Glenda".

Amazing what booze can do to a mind.  But I don't think even a twelve step program could help her, she'd probably only see it as another opportunity to pick up a man!

Can't help but wonder what her daughters will think one day when they read how she's lied and taken up for her friend Anita's coward spawn that beats little girls to death!
 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 11:36:54 AM
There are so few reliable things about the night Natalee went missing. The crab trap being stolen is one of the few things that is reliable. When Joran was duped by Patrick, I believe there's reason to think he's more likely to have been telling the truth than at most other times when he knew someone was trying to hold him accountable, and he told Patrick she was in the ocean. We have the pictures of a hip with blue fabric that is similar in size and color to the skirt she was wearing, taken from a crab trap, coupled with Kyle Kingman's suspicions. We even have a rainbow and a Mother who couldn't look at the water.

I honestly believe it was Natalee, and I honestly believe the bone from the jaw slipped through the cage and accounts for the way it was so mishandled by Holland. Either they have her or the remains have been utterly destroyed. I believe that the finding of the jaw bone puts them on notice that their best laid plans can go wrong. I'm hoping that there's more and that the attention this has received will cause the next person to get their find off the island before giving to American authorities for testing.

I can hope.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 24, 2010, 11:40:11 AM

I really wish there was a way to know whether or not that full ROV video footage was released to the FBI after they contacted Kyle with the pictures from the Freebirds.

If it has, that gives the owner of said footage a reason not to release it if/when publicly called upon.

I don't know why I've thought all along that it was turned over.  I'm still absorbing the fact that the FBI may not have it.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Joran laughed.

(BTW, in my opinion, he was mocking Beth just like a psychopath does when he claimed he didn't know what the candy bar was about - mentioned as a parting shot while he was walking out of the room. 

Glenda and everyone she represents should pay close attention.  They know damn well what they do, and karma is coming.)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 11:40:16 AM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:41:01 AM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 24, 2010, 11:45:25 AM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

texasmom -

You inspire me every day.

Just thought you should know.

 ::MonkeyHeart::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 24, 2010, 11:53:15 AM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

CBB -

The worst part: Just like the first 10 days, we can NEVER get that crucial time period back, where crab trap contents were whisked away.

BUCKSHOT

When speaking of Tim Miller, it seems to get fairly heated. My opinion is this...I do not think he has evil wishes against the family in any way. His intentions are probably about doing good. However, knowing Aruba's "slight of hand" background in regards to this case, he was duped at a most crucial time on the recovery of exactly what he sought to find - a crab trap on the ocean floor with possible remains of NH.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 11:59:42 AM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

Thankyou!It helps knowing that I'm not alone in this.I too asked forgiveness and know deep in my heart that this will be an ongoing thing until justice is finally served.The raw evil thats involved in all this compels me to pray harder and harder against it.I sure hope you dont come down with any sickness Mom and hope you are able to enjoy Thanksgiving even though Natalee and all those that love her will be heavily on our minds...May we all lift them up in our prayers..


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 12:02:33 PM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 12:06:51 PM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

texasmom -

You inspire me every day.

Just thought you should know.

 ::MonkeyHeart::

Thank you Lifesong!   ::MonkeyKiss::

The feeling is mutual!   ::MonkeyHeart::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 12:08:00 PM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......

Yes, Jen, you're right on target and your post is much better thought out than mine. Thank You!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 12:09:17 PM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

Thanks CBB!  Worth a lot IMO!    ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 12:13:38 PM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

Thanks CBB!  Worth a lot IMO!    ::MonkeyCool::

I agree - thank you CBB for undertaking this action.  4 medical professionals all giving their opinion on what that picture shows is definitely worth A LOT.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 12:15:06 PM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......

Yes, Jen, you're right on target and your post is much better thought out than mine. Thank You!

LOL, thanks CBB.  I dunno about being better thought out or not, I'm just pissed!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 12:19:23 PM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

Thankyou!It helps knowing that I'm not alone in this.I too asked forgiveness and know deep in my heart that this will be an ongoing thing until justice is finally served.The raw evil thats involved in all this compels me to pray harder and harder against it.I sure hope you dont come down with any sickness Mom and hope you are able to enjoy Thanksgiving even though Natalee and all those that love her will be heavily on our minds...May we all lift them up in our prayers..

ALWAYS....I'm a firm believer that prayer changes things.  In His time, it will happen. ::MonkeyAngel::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 12:23:12 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 12:24:10 PM
For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......

Yes, Jen, you're right on target and your post is much better thought out than mine. Thank You!

LOL, thanks CBB.  I dunno about being better thought out or not, I'm just pissed!

I like it when you get that way.   ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyDance::

And I agree, you're right on target!   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 12:24:52 PM
Shopping for a turkey and fixings!  BBL! 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 12:25:28 PM
Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

Thankyou!It helps knowing that I'm not alone in this.I too asked forgiveness and know deep in my heart that this will be an ongoing thing until justice is finally served.The raw evil thats involved in all this compels me to pray harder and harder against it.I sure hope you dont come down with any sickness Mom and hope you are able to enjoy Thanksgiving even though Natalee and all those that love her will be heavily on our minds...May we all lift them up in our prayers..

ALWAYS....I'm a firm believer that prayer changes things.  In His time, it will happen. ::MonkeyAngel::




*AMEN*!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: FloridaKatz on November 24, 2010, 12:34:18 PM
Good afternoon Monkeys.  Last night as I was reading through the board, things started getting really "snippy" and I had to back off as it was so sad to see people going after each other, after the results of the jawbone was announced.  I know it was out of anger at Aruba, and I'm very happy to see things have calmed down.  I think Natalee would have been so thankful and proud to see how many people love her so much.

BIG HUGS to all the Monkeys today.  Each of you are truely Angels walking on this earth, and should be so very proud of yourselves for your determination in this case.  I know I feel honored to be able to communicate with you through this forum !!!

 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 12:44:43 PM
Good afternoon Monkeys.  Last night as I was reading through the board, things started getting really "snippy" and I had to back off as it was so sad to see people going after each other, after the results of the jawbone was announced.  I know it was out of anger at Aruba, and I'm very happy to see things have calmed down.  I think Natalee would have been so thankful and proud to see how many people love her so much.

BIG HUGS to all the Monkeys today.  Each of you are truely Angels walking on this earth, and should be so very proud of yourselves for your determination in this case.  I know I feel honored to be able to communicate with you through this forum !!!

 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel::

So very sweet of you to say.Thankyou for the kind words Katz.It was a hard day on us monkeys yesterday and emotionally drained many of us.We do get snippy as you say from time to time but this is one thing I hold dear to my heart.If I have to have a monkey on my back,may it always be one of these here...For whatever reason,we all come together where Natalee is concerned and all want justice to be served on the perp or perps that ended that childs life.The love we feel for her and her family is genuine and the glue that holds us together...:)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 24, 2010, 12:49:02 PM
Klaas & The Amazing Mods,

I posted an updated Part 8 to the Timeline thread (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4578.msg1268053#msg1268053).  Can you remove the old Part 8 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4578.msg1161454#msg1161454)?

Thank you!

I'll let 2NJ do it    ::MonkeyCool::

Done!      ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 24, 2010, 01:02:08 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 24, 2010, 01:13:18 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 24, 2010, 01:20:24 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 01:26:30 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Not necessarily.  Keep in mind that Silvetti got him and Dateline OFF of Persistence after the Dec 30th dive.  Time was not there when that Jan 7 footage was taken, and ALE swiped everything from that cage.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 01:28:33 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

Part of me agrees with this............another part of me believes that Tim knows what he saw, knows what his beliefs are still to this day - but with others (Silvetti) having so firmly shut the door on that possibility, I think Tim sometimes doubts himself.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 01:31:00 PM
I like it when you get that way.   ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyDance::

And I agree, you're right on target!   ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  I'm ashamed that I let my emotions get the better of me at times, but gheesh!  how many Thanksgivings in a row is this now that Aruba has jerked Natalee's family around? 

To quote one of the 3 Criminal Musketeers:  Enough of the BS Already!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: antunym on November 24, 2010, 01:35:01 PM
There is something I was thinking about.  If Paulus was the person that helped to dispose of Natalee's body then he would have known her exact location right? Well what I'm not comprehending is why didn't he make plans and recover her body before the persistence crew arrived in Aruba?  I mean with the equipment that was coming I'm sure everyone knew that surely the trap would be found. 

Dolph Richardson must not have been informed by the one's that disposed of her and where... if in fact this was Natalee because he had to actually wait for the persistence crew to find her.  The recovery of remains would have to be done after the find because until the "detective and his brother" pointed out the location of the area where the trap was, it seems that Dolph Richardson didn't know where the trap was at. 
So you got the ones that actually knew where the trap was because thats where they put it and then you got some that don't know where it was at.

To me it seems that the two weren't communicating to try to cover this up.

We did have a sighting of Paulus and I think Anita standing on the beach watching the activities in the ocean. But if Paulus had that connection to get the trap recovered and hidden it would make more sense that he would have contacted Dolph or whoever before persistence arrived and dove on the trap and continued the cover-up.

I know this is a lot to comprehend but to me it seems that there is someone entirely out of the loop of all of this that is pulling the strings. One would think that if Dolph or whoever was involved to recover her remains would have just done so before the persistence arrived and not in their presence if they knew beforehand where this trap was at.

I know that we are unsure if these remains were Natalee's but they were someone's and the recovery timing was a little weird.

Sorry if this is confusing everyone but I think you can see my point.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 01:51:10 PM
Antunym,  I do see your point.  One thing I keep reminding myself of, however - those morons continue to think they are smarter than anyone else.  I believe that in their arrogance, they never thought Persistence would find her, so no one worried about it.

And yes, you are correct - Paulus and Anita were seen on the beach directly in from where the cage was.  They were seen on either jan 5 or 6, IIRC.  After Persistence had found it, and just mere days before ALE dove on it.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Anna on November 24, 2010, 01:56:38 PM
My condolances to Natalee's family for the devastated hopes once again.

Gave myself a day to absorb all this.  And I can't believe I fell for it again.

Taco Stein is the biggest horses's ass I have seen lately.  Because remains would not advance the investigation, he totally discounted them as though the feelings of the family count for nothing.  But we have seen time and again their total disregard and lack of respect for human remains in their publications.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: antunym on November 24, 2010, 01:59:14 PM
Antunym,  I do see your point.  One thing I keep reminding myself of, however - those morons continue to think they are smarter than anyone else.  I believe that in their arrogance, they never thought Persistence would find her, so no one worried about it.

And yes, you are correct - Paulus and Anita were seen on the beach directly in from where the cage was.  They were seen on either jan 5 or 6, IIRC.  After Persistence had found it, and just mere days before ALE dove on it.

Maybe it could be that simple and I'm just thinking to hard and putting more brains in their heads than are actually there lol


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Anna on November 24, 2010, 02:16:27 PM
Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.

c.

Well it is my opinion that it was a skull in that cage.  So much so that the Aruban divers when down and collected its contents.  Why bother to collect it if it was nothing.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3.jpg)


And don't forget Tim Miller said they (ALE) came back after 6 weeks and said it was a male.


Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.



Whoa!  Wait a minute.

Who said we all agree on the contents of the trap or anything else for that matter?

I STILL see a service hat even in the recovered remains.  And denim is most commonly in jeans and so jeans plus pelvic bone still could be anybody.

That said, however, I learned long ago that I do not have to point out that no one knows for certain where Natalee's remians are or have been every time the subject comes up.

I don't know if that was her in that trap or not and neither does anybody else.  But every time I have voiced this, I have been bombarded with all manner of repeated information obviously designed to change my mind and brow beaten for days.

That doesn't mean we all concur with the conjectures and determinations of each other.  It's just sometimes not worth being told what to think repeatedly for days.  Same with Lorenzo van Rijn not being related or even a friend Joran.

I know what I think and I know what I know but it's not necessary to endlessly debate.  After this amount of time, we are not going to change each others' minds.

But I see that service cap clear as day and this cage could have been pushed off a commercial fishing boat in the area, etc.  Also as pointed out above, I believe if that had been Natalee's remains they would have been relocated before the divind boat could arrive.

But these are just my opinions like eerybody else has them.  I do not try to force them on others and would appreciate the same respect being shown for my thoughts on this as well.  I do not need to be told to "think" or that my logic is flawed, etc.  That's already been done ad nauseum.

Because I don't challenge every conjecture does not mean I totally concur.  It means I have my own thoughts that I may or may not care to share or debate.  But I do think I should be allowed to express mine without creating a barrage of contradiction designed to demean and belittle them.




 ::MonkeyKiss::


 ::monkeywine2::

Now to try to find something in all this to be thankful for.  I suppose Aruba showing their rear end to the whole world again is pretty good.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 24, 2010, 02:22:12 PM
Good afternoon Monkeys.  Last night as I was reading through the board, things started getting really "snippy" and I had to back off as it was so sad to see people going after each other, after the results of the jawbone was announced.  I know it was out of anger at Aruba, and I'm very happy to see things have calmed down.  I think Natalee would have been so thankful and proud to see how many people love her so much.

BIG HUGS to all the Monkeys today.  Each of you are truely Angels walking on this earth, and should be so very proud of yourselves for your determination in this case.  I know I feel honored to be able to communicate with you through this forum !!!

 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel::
Hear hear. Happy Thanksgiving to all monkeys everywhere.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Anna on November 24, 2010, 02:22:53 PM
Let us remember how difficult the holidays are for those who have lost loved ones.  Most people have lost someone but the loss of a child had to be the worst.  Holidays make us think of holidays from the past and miss them even more.

So no matter how disappointed we are, Natalee's family has to be suffering far more and we can be thankful if that is a loss we have never had to endure.  May God lighten that sorrow for them and grant them peace for this holiday season.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 24, 2010, 02:25:32 PM
JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is.  ::MonkeyEek::

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.
My apologies.
I've never been to Aruba but yes, I do public service alot, mostly in Homeland Security, been in some grungy places.
Hope you have a nice holiday.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 24, 2010, 02:45:23 PM
Because I don't challenge every conjecture does not mean I totally concur.  It means I have my own thoughts that I may or may not care to share or debate.  But I do think I should be allowed to express mine without creating a barrage of contradiction designed to demean and belittle them.
It's the nature of internet forums.
But yes, I seem to think that it could be cow bones in the trap for all we know. Becauce chum is used to attract crabs and cheap meat left overs usually works but they need something to be anchored to.

There are thousands of crab traps. Are there any identifying marks that says this is the one that was stolen? Did the owner claim it? Forgive me if this has been already answered.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 24, 2010, 03:01:00 PM
Because I don't challenge every conjecture does not mean I totally concur.  It means I have my own thoughts that I may or may not care to share or debate.  But I do think I should be allowed to express mine without creating a barrage of contradiction designed to demean and belittle them.
It's the nature of internet forums.
But yes, I seem to think that it could be cow bones in the trap for all we know. Becauce chum is used to attract crabs and cheap meat left overs usually works but they need something to be anchored to.

There are thousands of crab traps. Are there any identifying marks that says this is the one that was stolen? Did the owner claim it? Forgive me if this has been already answered.

You might want to try looking at some of helpful threads in the Natalee Holloway Forum that have been created, such as:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4641.msg705702#msg705702
THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

or
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.msg547189#msg547189
The Ocean Search for Natalee Holloway Monday, November 26, 2007

or the try using the forum search feature.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 03:03:13 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to all American Monkeys!!

Don't forget the brussel sprouts.  My grandmother, mother and aunts insisted that my cousins, brothers and I had to eat at least one of those little cabbages with our Turkey dinners.  These beloved women never shared what would would happen if we failed to follow through but ... the understanding was it was not a good thing.  This almost 64 year old woman still has at least one brussel sprout with her Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

 ::MonkeyWink::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: MuffyBee on November 24, 2010, 03:09:50 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to all American Monkeys!!

Don't forget the brussel sprouts.  My grandmother, mother and aunts insisted that my cousins, brothers and I had to eat at least one of those little cabbages with our Turkey dinners.  These beloved women never shared what would would happen if we failed to follow through but ... the understanding was it was not a good thing.  This almost 64 year old woman still has at least one brussel sprout with her Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

 ::MonkeyWink::

Janet


Happy Thanksgiving, Janet.  No, I don't eat brussel sprouts  ::MonkeyNoNo::  I enjoy most veggies and eat healthy but since I turned the corner and became a woman of a certain age, there are times I've even decided to eat dessert first.   ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 03:18:48 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to all American Monkeys!!

Don't forget the brussel sprouts.  My grandmother, mother and aunts insisted that my cousins, brothers and I had to eat at least one of those little cabbages with our Turkey dinners.  These beloved women never shared what would would happen if we failed to follow through but ... the understanding was it was not a good thing.  This almost 64 year old woman still has at least one brussel sprout with her Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

 ::MonkeyWink::

Janet


Happy Thanksgiving, Janet.  No, I don't eat brussel sprouts  ::MonkeyNoNo::  I enjoy most veggies and eat healthy but since I turned the corner and became a woman of a certain age, there are times I've even decided to eat dessert first.   ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

You are the rebellious one.  Not one brussel sprout!!  Eating dessert first!! My entire world as I know it would be turn upside down.

MuffyBee ... Canadian Thanksgiving was last month.  I was turkied-out (is that a word?) with Thanksgiving dinners on both sides of the family.  However ... one month later I am anticipating a Christmas turkey dinner.

Janet
 



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 24, 2010, 03:22:35 PM
baby cabbages are delectable!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 03:24:20 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

Part of me agrees with this............another part of me believes that Tim knows what he saw, knows what his beliefs are still to this day - but with others (Silvetti) having so firmly shut the door on that possibility, I think Tim sometimes doubts himself.

All of which requires convictions and I agree; therein, might lie the problem.  JMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 24, 2010, 03:51:58 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 03:57:09 PM
OMG, Wreck. You've been in my head. I've been in your epiphany for a while now.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jjayinthemorning on November 24, 2010, 03:59:46 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............
Interesting!
Isn't that illegal?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 04:01:35 PM
Well thank you all for the responses. We do bat things around here for sure.Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I value all of them.I have always had the trap in my brain simply because of the covert operation that surrounded it.That said,I still think of those videos that showed the white bag in the culvert by the swamp,lake,whatever that was.That was a very mysterious operation done by someone also.When you look at them up close(Blondes post),it does look like a small blonde female inside.What was the persons motive for taking the film I wonder.A message?A threat?Blackmail? Was there a drug lord suddenly released from jail in the days following?You know those drug cartels!!! Then there is always the dump and all that went on there.Why do I always feel like we sit in square one 5 1/2 years later? I really dont see why joran cant be given truth serum.Who would believe him if he told? Just like him,deny,deny,deny.Keep him locked up tight for a few days afterwards until all traces are gone and let him howl.We wont tell Peru!!!!!!  One more thing,why havent those 141 so called targets been dived upon all this time later? I just dont get it!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 04:05:49 PM
When I heard the horrible comments from Tim about Beth's visit from Peru, I started asking myself if maybe Tim was supposed to "find Natalee" with a nod from Aruba. Aruba's motive? Joran had been arrested for killing Stephany and it doesn't help Aruba's image that they basically allowed that and it gave credibility to Beth's claims of corruption and cover up.

I thought that perhaps Tim's rant was because Beth was throwing a monkey wrench in the plan. She was, once again, putting the story back on the front page and garnering more sympathy.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 04:07:43 PM
Now I'll duck.............    ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 04:07:45 PM


Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............
[/quote]

 Tim was only saying  maybe this could be done if the jawbone belonged to Natalee,correct?I would imagine all bets are off now.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: islandmonkey on November 24, 2010, 04:16:20 PM
Now I'll duck.............    ::MonkeyEek::

 ::MonkeyTongue::

~JJ.....I am not sure it matters what is legal or not in Aruba, this case has been a 5 1/2 yr clusterf@ck in everything illegal, immoral and unethical from an Island that hopefully will have so few tourist it will fall of the map - figuratively speaking although literally would be nice too ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: antunym on November 24, 2010, 04:16:48 PM
Lmao at wreck and CBB  ::MonkeyHaHa::  "ducking for cover"  You all make me laugh and I need it after yesterday's news!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 04:18:42 PM
 ::MonkeyHaHa:: OK, Wreck left and everybody's speechless.

There's a reason I hadn't posted the thought. It's really, really cynical about Tim, I know. Nevermind. I'm delusional for trying to get Thanksgiving pulled together!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 04:20:38 PM
Lmao at wreck and CBB  ::MonkeyHaHa::  "ducking for cover"  You all make me laugh and I need it after yesterday's news!


(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/couchsmiley.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 04:27:50 PM
Lmao at wreck and CBB  ::MonkeyHaHa::  "ducking for cover"  You all make me laugh and I need it after yesterday's news!


(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/couchsmiley.gif)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/362553.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 24, 2010, 04:28:26 PM
When I heard the horrible comments from Tim about Beth's visit from Peru, I started asking myself if maybe Tim was supposed to "find Natalee" with a nod from Aruba. Aruba's motive? Joran had been arrested for killing Stephany and it doesn't help Aruba's image that they basically allowed that and it gave credibility to Beth's claims of corruption and cover up.

I thought that perhaps Tim's rant was because Beth was throwing a monkey wrench in the plan. She was, once again, putting the story back on the front page and garnering more sympathy.

Well if this was to be true it would have helped if Beth was in on the plan.

But what we have here are people who want justice for Natalee and they aren't on the same page as far as plans go.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: islandmonkey on November 24, 2010, 04:34:49 PM
Tim Miller needs to put his ego aside and accepted what has happened had nothing to do with him.  What a desperate man.
He doesn't have many success stories. Natalee and Caylee Anthony are under his belt. What a shame. He has no experience in searching other than raising money and creating false hope. I'm so diasppointed in his services. I have respect for his efforts but I don't have faith in his actions.

Anyway, since Tim did locate places I'm sure there have been scuba divers out there who have tampered with the crime scene.

jj-  I'm not going to turn this into a Tim Miller thing in this thread, but I want to make note that you are wrong here, and it's not just my opinion.  Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch actually DO have many success stories, and as far as your statement about him having no experience searching other than raising money and creating false hope?  Wrong.  Wrong.  He has helped many over the years and when I get some coffee in me, I can go find some links and statistics for you.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.  In my opinion, what has people here (including me) so ticked off at Tim Miller is because he HAS been so good in the past helping find the lost, including Natalee, and supported Beth.  Then the problems seemed to start with the Persistence.  And then he turned on Beth, saying the awful things he said on the Steph Watts show.  Yep, I understand people's anger (and I'm mad too) at Tim Miller, but please keep the facts straight.  Tim Miller and Equusearch are very experienced in finding the lost and are still being asked by LE to assist, such as in case just this week (Joshua Wilkerson) and it's on Scared Monkeys Missing Forum.  I too would like to find out just why Tim Miller disparaged Beth Holloway and what went on with the Persistence.  I'm mad as he77 over that.  But as far as Tim having no experience searching and not having many success stories?  That's just not true.

Sorry~just catching up, am I in some alternative universe because even though Tim has evolved into someone who is in need of an intervention on many levels ASAP, he has brought home a significant number of the missing alive and for families who had no closure he found their loved one's passed one/murdered etc, so.....I am thinking that is a big stretch to say he has no experience (huge stretch), no doubt he has his demons and should have respected that so does Beth and I am behind Beth in everything she has does so far, frankly if I had been in that room with Urine it would have taken everything in me to not beat the crap out of him of shank him, but to take away every good thing Tim has done in the past is also a huge disservice. Now, if I am looking for a true media whore I think we can all look to the Caylee Anthony case and find several, the vast majority with no experience except in enoying hearing themselves on the news or Nancy Grace or causing scenes in Or-lawndo over beads most 4-8yr sold girls have in their bedroom. Also, my son's class dontated to TES a few yrs ago for his birthday instead of gift, they did get arm bands, a thnk you note from Tim and a letter to the kids about how the money helped find the 2 yr old Owen Castle (IIRC) in Llanos, Tx and his progression on how he went from near death to a child running and playing, with all kinds of pictures to show the kids. Now, every child in the class gives money on their birthdays to a charity of their choosing since they were acknowledged for their efforts and to me that is priceless and the best lesson my son or the other 25 in his class ever learned.

Ok, heading to buy a turkey.......is it too late to thaw one out ?? ::MonkeyBike::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 24, 2010, 04:35:58 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/362553.gif)

Is it safe????  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 04:36:00 PM
I'm not believing I'm going to say this but would someone please give me the link to Tim spewing about Beth?What the Hay? I'm a monkey on the edge people!!! Now the so-called good guys have to be scrutinized?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 04:38:14 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/362553.gif)

Is it safe????  ::MonkeyCool::

Absolutly!!!! ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 04:41:37 PM
I'm not believing I'm going to say this but would someone please give me the link to Tim spewing about Beth?What the Hay? I'm a monkey on the edge people!!! Now the so-called good guys have to be scrutinized?

I believe this is the one.  Click on the photo below to listen to the recording:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/th_TimMillerStephWatts09192010_xvid.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9%20June%202010/?action=view&current=TimMillerStephWatts09192010_xvid.mp4)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 04:44:07 PM
Hi ALL.

Just wanted to say - I'm with Anna on the service hat. I did a comparison a while back and can post it again, if anyone wants. But I think it is a cop's hat.

And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops? Could it be a dirty cop that disappeared years and years ago? Seems like they have been wearing these caps and uniforms for decades. And couldn't this also be a good clean cop that didn't adhere to the Aruba Dirty Polis?

Aren't all those things possible too? I guess we could be so jaded by all the lies that when they tell the truth - we just don't believe it. I think the fact that they took off with the remains - leads everyone to think something went down and it was underhanded. But maybe they KNEW this cop was killed and maybe they didn't want that all coming out. Anyway - those are just some additional possibilities, but in the end - who knows.

What we do know - it was a person. That's confirmed and they said so themselves and the DNA lasted between 3 and 10 years according to Kyle who said he thought the trap was in the water that long. There is also the trap was there and someone placed a body there years later - but in any event - it was a person.

Maybe, believe it or not - Natalee has not been found, yet. Or maybe is unable to be found - and that's the reason why Joran laughs. Maybe, San's correct and she is on land. MAYBE in a tomb and will never be found. I don't know. But I think there is also the possibility that Zandaam was right when he said - the body of Natalee was found in two days and a favor was done for the son of Paulus to exculpate him. Mayyybbbe.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 04:44:59 PM
advocate de hoogd is tell cu apparently banco central owing to sleep during 17 year


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

publication: diaranson, 24 november 2010. categoria: general

in caso stanford international bank: *abogado of bc is indica cu is show because; if fuera de hoogd is ‘stroman’ for hendenan misterioso

(http://www.diario.aw/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/interbank.jpg)

oranjestad (aan): tuesday daily paper because; unique medio of prensa was present at corte, where cu did take lugar continuacion of one caso among ‘stichting stanford aruba’ y banco central of aruba. the proceso among the two partidonan owing to cuminza for of enough time end, where cu several documento owing to worde intercambia among the partidonan y huez of corte of husticia. tuesday was the day place for her caso worde deal. is so cu stichting stanford aruba is one fundacion arise for one are of alrededor of 25 person perhudica door of stanford international bank (sib).

at 1992 stanford owing to acerca banco central of aruba for her achieve one licencia because; banco, but this owing to worde deny. via one another caminda past owing to succeed become activo on market of aruba. the banco was ofrece interest high (9% y mas), for person deposita they coin.

much person owing to haci this y at 2009 hour cu sib owing to cay in another, much person mundialmente owing to lose sumanan big of coin. at aruba also this was the caso then y provided that overall hendenan on the island owing to lose alrededor of 35 miyon dollar.

advocate gabri de hoogd owing to representa stichting stanford aruba (ssa) in name of the alrededor of 25 person perhudica. past owing to trece fast cu all the organizacion of stanford is in estado of bancarota y do not cla still if esnan perhudica will ricibi compensacion for thing they owing to lose.

past owing to tell if cu thing is assure is cu they will not achieve 100% of the coin cu they owing to inverti. ssa owing to cuminza the caso contra banco central, because according ssa, one of the rolnan more important of banco central is for ehecuta supervision y control on actividadnan of banco y of another instancianan financiero, according the ltk, cu is landsverordening toezicht kredietwezen (Credit System Supervision Ordinance).

the advocate owing to trece fast cu because; such banco central have to can owing to actua at time during the 17 añanan cu stanford owing to opera at aruba, for so evita thing owing to sosode.

banco central then have to as one view on all instancianan monetario of cual the actividadnan will can have one influencia on the stabilidad monetario y reputacion financiero of aruba. de hoogd owing to splica cu banco central was at height cu algo not was good cu stanford international bank.

according the advocate, proof of this is cu in amigoe of aruba owing to leave one articulo on 19 of feburary 2009, in cual have stop cu banco central for añanan largo was preocupa on stanford. de hoogd owing to tell cu provided that vez of haci algo, banco central owing to sleep during of 17 year y door of this several person at aruba owing to worde perhudica financieramente.

pesey ssa is buscando one compensacion of part of banco central, but esey will have to come fast in another procedura. banco central owing to worde representa for advocate allart haasjes that owing to come for of the netherlands y past owing to worde asisti for mr. anthony carlo.

banco central his sharp of view principal is cu the peticion of stichting stanford aruba have to worde declara not admisible. according the advocate, banco central not can worde poni responsible for her actonan of stanford international bank.

banco central not owing to give stanford the permission of opera because; banco. haasjes owing to cuestiona also the mature cu de hoogd is tell of representa one cantidad of person cu is part of the stichting, but till still none person know is that is all the personanan in the stichting.

according the advocate dutch, is show as de hoogd is actua because; ‘stroman’, for one are of person cu will have cierto motibonan dark for not give informacion of they self, incluyendo informacion financiero.

the advocate owing to tell also cu is possible cu one procedura is worde take away at corte in name of person cu do not existi. haasjes owing to tell also cu ssa not owing to trece fast at one as cla, in what sense banco central will owing to abort y kico banco central can owing to haci.

past owing to trece fast also cu banco central not was have the autoridad of actua contra stanford international bank. huez at end owing to tell cu the is bay give his veredicto day 26 of january.


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/


In Aruba, our Caribbean Mercantile Bank collected NAF 12 million in exchange tax, which it pays to the Central Bank of Aruba for the Aruba governmenthttp://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf
page 16/50


Antonio Carlos worked for Johan Paul Sjiem Fat, Sjiem Fat & Sjiem Fat, Aruba
Johan Paul Sjiem Fat considers the impact of these three countries on the tax regime operating in Aruba. http://www.offshoreinvestment.com/magazine/issue?id=87


Antonio Carlo, Joran's attorney and Paulus' bossman, use to work at a firm, Sjiem Fat & Co. One of the owners of that firm is Standard Trust Co., who coincidentally is also the managing director of the company that owns C&Cs.

Contact Name: Johan Sjiem Fat/Antonio Carlo
 Email: legal@abc-trademarks.com Organization

Johan Sjiem Fat and Lincoln Gomez are on the board of directors of
Aruba Financial Center Association.
Also Gomez is in charge of litigation, corporate Finane and Telcom for AFCA
http://www.afca-aruba.com/news/new_fiscal_framework.html


Johan Paul Sjiem Fat is on the Board of Dreictors for Aruba Financial Center Association:
http://www.afca-aruba.com/board_directors.html
(offshore corps. etc. He is an Officer along with Lincoln D. Gomez who is the President)

________________________>

OFFSHORE BANKING FOLKS – THAT IS WHAT PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT WAS WORKING WITH THE CENTRAL BUREAU OF LEGAL AND GENERAL AFFAIRS ON ARUBA.
PROFESSIONAL OFFSHORE INCORPORATIONS AND OFFSHORE BANKING SERVICES SINCE 1995





Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 04:46:25 PM
I'm not believing I'm going to say this but would someone please give me the link to Tim spewing about Beth?What the Hay? I'm a monkey on the edge people!!! Now the so-called good guys have to be scrutinized?


WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010 (PARTIAL) TRANSCRIPT
« on: September 24, 2010, 01:13:25 AM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8625.0

Transcript: texasmom



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blonde on November 24, 2010, 04:46:37 PM
Antunym,  I do see your point.  One thing I keep reminding myself of, however - those morons continue to think they are smarter than anyone else.  I believe that in their arrogance, they never thought Persistence would find her, so no one worried about it.

And yes, you are correct - Paulus and Anita were seen on the beach directly in from where the cage was.  They were seen on either jan 5 or 6, IIRC.  After Persistence had found it, and just mere days before ALE dove on it.
Remember Tim was sent off to  Nicaragua

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.


Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"

Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta-- that-- that's it."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/6/



January 2008
01/??/2008-Tim and Dave off boat
01/07/2008-Persistence lost Internet Connectivity for 2 days until 1/09

01/07/2008-Trap contents sampled
01/07/2008-Aruban Divers dive from Aruban boat


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 04:48:28 PM
JORAN: "I think I am incredibly lucky that she's never been found because if she had been found I would be in deep shit"
Source: Peter deVries secret recordings:
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_volledig_leeg.html




Citizens of the world want justice.

America wants justice.

Extradite Joran van der Sloot to the United States to stand trial.

Gerard Spong, a prominent Dutch attorney, stated earlier today that there is a very real chance that van der Sloot may win the criminal case, but will be unable to win a civil suit brought by the surviving family members. Since there is an extradition treaty between the Netherlands and the United States, possible damages may be "..far more than he will ever be able to repay. The American system for awarding damages can have devastating results." http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/


Natalee Holloway and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!

Natalee's Freebirds
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2582.680


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 04:50:18 PM
(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee%20Holloway%20-%20New%20Folder/3320144389_a7a02d2cf8_color400.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 04:54:32 PM
Hi ALL.

Just wanted to say - I'm with Anna on the service hat. I did a comparison a while back and can post it again, if anyone wants. But I think it is a cop's hat.

And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops? Could it be a dirty cop that disappeared years and years ago? Seems like they have been wearing these caps and uniforms for decades. And couldn't this also be a good clean cop that didn't adhere to the Aruba Dirty Polis?

Aren't all those things possible too? I guess we could be so jaded by all the lies that when they tell the truth - we just don't believe it. I think the fact that they took off with the remains - leads everyone to think something went down and it was underhanded. But maybe they KNEW this cop was killed and maybe they didn't want that all coming out. Anyway - those are just some additional possibilities, but in the end - who knows.

What we do know - it was a person. That's confirmed and they said so themselves and the DNA lasted between 3 and 10 years according to Kyle who said he thought the trap was in the water that long. There is also the trap was there and someone placed a body there years later - but in any event - it was a person.

Maybe, believe it or not - Natalee has not been found, yet. Or maybe is unable to be found - and that's the reason why Joran laughs. Maybe, San's correct and she is on land. MAYBE in a tomb and will never be found. I don't know. But I think there is also the possibility that Zandaam was right when he said - the body of Natalee was found in two days and a favor was done for the son of Paulus to exculpate him. Mayyybbbe.

Joran: "Things seem to be going even better than I hoped."




Joran: "Even if they find her dead, with my semen in her"



Joran: “I knew she wanted to f*** (talks about Natalee)”
Joran: “I then gave her a bacardi 151 (75% alcohol). She asked for a chaser, I see shes so drunk, but I thought: Im gonna f*** her.”
Joran: “So I said to S&D, drop us on the beach, Ill f*** her”
Joran: “Then she started shaking like crazy... The beach was empty, I walked to her, no reaction, she just kept shaking, NO foam around her mouth”
Joran: “I picked Nat up and put her near the mangrove trees at the mariott.


Source: Peter deVries secret recordings
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_volledig_leeg.html






Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 04:55:40 PM
Joran: she is in the ocean.
(source: Range Rover tapes/Peter deVries undercover)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 04:59:05 PM
Thankyou for the links.I've done plum gone over the edge now.. ::MonkeyMad::

Yes Tim,nine times in Aruba and you've got squat to show for it except what sounds like a sweet vacation.Free rooms,free meals,blah,blah,blah...Oh my gosh monkeys!!!! Beth is in it for the money?Somebody give me a rock!!! UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......................Traitor!!!


Hubby says that blue in the cage is in his opinion,  most definitly a hat...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 04:59:54 PM
On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>


After reviewing the footage, the first logical question that comes to mind is - where are the lab results on the rest of the items recovered from that fishing trap?






Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:00:09 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............

Tim went crazy or he's just delusional, or maybe a touch of both. All of a sudden the jaw bone is found and these got an expedition ready, Seriously?

and this has been on my mind - why would anyone search again until the FBI can be there and make sure no one snatches the cheese and runs into a hole?

Search again will lead to the same result, won't it? How can anyone be assured that it wouldn't happen again? makes no sense.

A good search is planned well in advance (especially one that involves the ocean for goodness sakes) and the you have a set of protocols in place.

If there are no protocols - just let the Arubans troll their own ocean and abscond with any remains, that's what would happen anyway, why even get involved.

By the way, when Tim honked in with 'all this ready to search' mumbo jumbo - I didn't like his oneupsmanship.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 05:04:18 PM
Kyle said: "One of the most intriguing has been a tip from a reported friend of Deepak who said that Deepak confessed one evening while using drugs together that they had dropped the body 10 miles out into the ocean."


November 30, 2007 - Margaret Wever writes: "The new evidence together with the existing evidence in the case file produced serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting of covering up the traces of a crime committed or the disposing of the corpse," according to the statement from the prosecutors' office.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/aruba_missing_teen;_ylt=Av9lm4Civ4tXydAjWilQ9zRvaA8F


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 05:10:06 PM
KYLE BACK IN UNITED STATES OFF THE RV PERSISTENCE:


Domain Name agiosat.com ? (Commercial)
IP Address 65.88.255.# (Atlanta International Teleport)
ISP Broadwing Communications
Location Continent : Unknown
Country : Satellite Provider
Lat/Long : unknown
Language English (U.S.)
en-us
Operating System Microsoft WinXP
Browser Internet Explorer 7.0
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; IEMB3; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; IEMB3)
Javascript version 1.3
Monitor Resolution : 1280 x 1024
Color Depth : 32 bits
Time of Visit Jan 31 2008 8:11:45 pm
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Out Click
Time Zone UTC-4:00
Visitor's Time Jan 31 2008 9:11:45 pm
Visit Number 10,697,341



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:11:32 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/polishats1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 24, 2010, 05:12:08 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............

Tim went crazy or he's just delusional, or maybe a touch of both. All of a sudden the jaw bone is found and these got an expedition ready, Seriously?

and this has been on my mind - why would anyone search again until the FBI can be there and make sure no one snatches the cheese and runs into a hole?

Search again will lead to the same result, won't it? How can anyone be assured that it wouldn't happen again? makes no sense.

A good search is planned well in advance (especially one that involves the ocean for goodness sakes) and the you have a set of protocols in place.

If there are no protocols - just let the Arubans troll their own ocean and abscond with any remains, that's what would happen anyway, why even get involved.

By the way, when Tim honked in with 'all this ready to search' mumbo jumbo - I didn't like his oneupsmanship.

I think that Aruba could actually be TRYING to return the body (with the least amount of damage). This jawbone might have done had it actually been real. I put nothing past them (or Tim) at this point.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 05:13:37 PM
It looks like a hat to me.... ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 24, 2010, 05:15:56 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/polishats1.jpg)
What if it was a cop who helped dispose of Natalee in that trap. All sorts of reasons why there is a hat in there as well as Natalee. Again, just something to consider - I don't know!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:16:40 PM
It looks like a hat to me.... ::MonkeyEek::

not showing up for me. PB is taking forever to load.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I scrolled my mouse over the image I *thought* it was and just copied the link.

maybe it will show up later for me - when I log off  ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:18:08 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/polishats1.jpg)
What if it was a cop who helped dispose of Natalee in that trap. All sorts of reasons why there is a hat in there as well as Natalee. Again, just something to consider - I don't know!

well wreck, the possibilities are endless and that's the problem. when something arises it often opens more questions than answers.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Kermit on November 24, 2010, 05:19:56 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 05:22:35 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/polishats1.jpg)
What if it was a cop who helped dispose of Natalee in that trap. All sorts of reasons why there is a hat in there as well as Natalee. Again, just something to consider - I don't know!

well wreck, the possibilities are endless and that's the problem. when something arises it often opens more questions than answers.

The top right picture looks identical to the cop hat on the left however,the bottom picture looks like a blob of material.Round and round we go!!! Just creepy is what it is..:(


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 05:24:44 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




Mind if I ask just what action he took on his own?


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: DPJ on November 24, 2010, 05:27:37 PM
And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops?
There has never been any report of a cop gone missing there, guess it could have been many things but even in Aruba a cop going awol would have been noticed.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:28:23 PM
I'll tell ya, I have all kinds of thoughts about Aruba and none of them are good.  ::MonkeyDevil::

But I don't think Aruba would "want to give her back".

Here's why - it would just prove what so many have said for 5 and a half years. They are corrupt and lied about everything. That Joran should have been in jail and Stephany would still be alive. And you know everyone would be saying that if Natalee just popped up. I guess I don't buy into Tim Miller as a corrupt hero to save Aruba. He's a lot of things but I doubt he would be in cahoots with a mess that something like that would create.

One thing about dealing with the corrupt and evil - they don't all of a sudden develop a conscious. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming to admission.



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:30:43 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/polishats1.jpg)
What if it was a cop who helped dispose of Natalee in that trap. All sorts of reasons why there is a hat in there as well as Natalee. Again, just something to consider - I don't know!

well wreck, the possibilities are endless and that's the problem. when something arises it often opens more questions than answers.

The top right picture looks identical to the cop hat on the left however,the bottom picture looks like a blob of material.Round and round we go!!! Just creepy is what it is..:(

that's because the bag is moving back and forth in the ocean current. Those pics were taken from a video and screen captured.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 05:35:01 PM
And to think it's all to cover-up for a thug murderer..Unbelievable..On with the truth serum Peru!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:36:01 PM
And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops?
There has never been any report of a cop gone missing there, guess it could have been many things but even in Aruba a cop going awol would have been noticed.

ya never know, it's r00ba after all. And who's to say that the KLPD isn't or hasn't investigated this and never said anything - they're know for that.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 05:36:30 PM
I see why you could look at it and see a hat, but I'm 100% convinced whatever the blue is, it's around a pelvic bone. Nat's skirt seems more likely to me. JMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 05:38:13 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




Ribbit

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 05:38:22 PM
Remember, salt water sets color. I suppose in time, it would fade regardless, but that hat would have to have faded a lot to change so much. JMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Curly on November 24, 2010, 05:38:24 PM
I agree, CBB. Looks like a pelvis bone and Natalee's skirt.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: PJ on November 24, 2010, 05:39:11 PM

I did some research on the effects of salt water on denim back in March, 2009.

By 2005 most denim skirts contained a percentage of lycra/spandex material (as I recall anywhere from 3% to 30%, depending on the garment).

Lycra/spandex materials contain a fiber called PBT:

PBT: Polybutylene terephthalate is a texturised polyester filament yarn with properties of stretch and elasticity. PBT has higher stretch and recovery compared to standard polyester types and this property is also improved by special texturing conditions. The exceptional stretch and recovery of PBT are achieved through high elastic shrinkage in finishing processes. The amount of stretch depends on the amount of PBT used and the fabric construction. PBT is also resistant to alkalis, salt water and chlorinated water. (POLY-tera)

http://www.polyteks.com/index.asp?Lang=EN&subject=sozluk


I can dig through my notes some more, if necessary.


Thanks lifesong. It's not necessary for me. My Grandmother used to wash new clothes in salt water first thing if she thought the item was likely to fade or bleed. I adopted the practice and it works like a charm. All those navy and white striped polo shirts my son had stayed navy and white.   ::MonkeyWink::


OT

Hi CBB and I apologize up front for OT.  I learn so many new things here but this I can use in my everyday life.  Does it only take the first wash to be salt water?  Is it necessary to add salt to the wash each time (ratio)?  So sorry for being dense.  Thank you in advance for answering.

I wish all Monkeys and of course Natalee's family and friends a Blessed Thanksgiving.  I had such high hopes and had my personal prayer vigil until the news came out.  I was here of course to read it.  SO SAD !!!

PJ :flower:


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:39:48 PM
And to think it's all to cover-up for a thug murderer..Unbelievable..On with the truth serum Peru!!!!

I think most would agree - it's not for Joran per se...  but for tourism. But others can speak for themselves.

They thought this would be over in a week - like it had been before. And Beth dropped a bomb on them and they still don't know what to do. The family goes home, Aruba claims they are looking for the missing person, and the family never hears from them again, never gets any paperwork, grieves and curses Aruba. And all goes on in Aruba again.

This time was different.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 24, 2010, 05:41:45 PM
I'll tell ya, I have all kinds of thoughts about Aruba and none of them are good.  ::MonkeyDevil::

But I don't think Aruba would "want to give her back".

Here's why - it would just prove what so many have said for 5 and a half years. They are corrupt and lied about everything. That Joran should have been in jail and Stephany would still be alive. And you know everyone would be saying that if Natalee just popped up. I guess I don't buy into Tim Miller as a corrupt hero to save Aruba. He's a lot of things but I doubt he would be in cahoots with a mess that something like that would create.

One thing about dealing with the corrupt and evil - they don't all of a sudden develop a conscious. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming to admission.



I think Tim may have got caught up with Silvetti. Silvetti IS in cahoots with Aruba. They may ALL be collectively covering their a _ _ _ s. With Paulus gone and Joran in prison in Peru, it might make sense for Aruba to get Beth off their backs. Giving her Natalee back without having to expose themselves in a trial may be in their best interest.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:45:46 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




IF pooping his pants and crying for his mommie ARE "actions"... well I guess he did a lot of that.

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 05:46:05 PM
I agree, CBB. Looks like a pelvis bone and Natalee's skirt.

Hiya, Curly! I answered your post in my thread!  ::MonkeyWink::

Yeah, I'm really sure about the bone there. So are 2 Physicians, 1 RN and a Nurse Practitioner. I made them look at it today!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 05:47:20 PM
I'll tell ya, I have all kinds of thoughts about Aruba and none of them are good.  ::MonkeyDevil::

But I don't think Aruba would "want to give her back".

Here's why - it would just prove what so many have said for 5 and a half years. They are corrupt and lied about everything. That Joran should have been in jail and Stephany would still be alive. And you know everyone would be saying that if Natalee just popped up. I guess I don't buy into Tim Miller as a corrupt hero to save Aruba. He's a lot of things but I doubt he would be in cahoots with a mess that something like that would create.

One thing about dealing with the corrupt and evil - they don't all of a sudden develop a conscious. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming to admission.



I think Tim may have got caught up with Silvetti. Silvetti IS in cahoots with Aruba. They may ALL be collectively covering their a _ _ _ s. With Paulus gone and Joran in prison in Peru, it might make sense for Aruba to get Beth off their backs. Giving her Natalee back without having to expose themselves in a trial may be in their best interest.

 :smt045


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: DPJ on November 24, 2010, 05:47:27 PM
ya never know, it's r00ba after all. And who's to say that the KLPD isn't or hasn't investigated this and never said anything - they're know for that.
I would say bollocks, no cop ever disappeared on Aruba and if you think otherwise I'd like to see some proof.
Also please explain what the 'KLPD are know for' according to you.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: jen3560 on November 24, 2010, 05:50:38 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




Mind if I ask just what action he took on his own?

After he had been in communication with us (Natalee's Freebirds) since before Persistence left the US, in March 2008 he got in touch with us to help him put all his information and images together properly for presentation.  He said he had shared them with the FBI and Beth...........that turned out to be a lie.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: San on November 24, 2010, 05:51:31 PM
If Aruba wants to do damage control all they would have to do is negotiate a deal with the Kalpoe brothers and have one of them come forward and say I know where Natalee's body is and I'm ready to lead you to where the body is.  Then Aruba can have their fake press conference and say Deepak confessed and he lead us to where they buried Natalee and we found a body and we are sending it for testing.  It will show there was no corruption on the ALE's part.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:53:20 PM
ya never know, it's r00ba after all. And who's to say that the KLPD isn't or hasn't investigated this and never said anything - they're know for that.
I would say bollocks, no cop ever disappeared on Aruba and if you think otherwise I'd like to see some proof.
Also please explain what the 'KLPD are know for' according to you.

Did the KLPD ever release any of the findings for the Holloway case?

The results of the drug dogs at the Sloot home? the computers that were confiscated, the Sloot mobiles that were taken?

Did they ever release the video confession taken of Joran that Paulus said was taken after hours for a minor?

Did the KLPD ever release any findings from their search of the Sloot home the second time they were there and measured the back wall? and dug in the garden?

Did the KLPD ever release anything??

yep - I'd say they are known for that.

And you don't know that a cop has never turned up missing. Thank you very much. This is Aruba were Betico Croes was killed in a conspiracy in Christmas eve as he was getting ready to take power. If someone can kill him a cop is nothing.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 05:56:33 PM
If Aruba wants to do damage control all they would have to do is negotiate a deal with the Kalpoe brothers and have one of them come forward and say I know where Natalee's body is and I'm ready to lead you to where the body is.  Then Aruba can have their fake press conference and say Deepak confessed and he lead us to where they buried Natalee and we found a body and we are sending it for testing.  It will show there was no corruption on the ALE's part.

one poster likes this post. and finds it helpful.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 06:07:29 PM
ya never know, it's r00ba after all. And who's to say that the KLPD isn't or hasn't investigated this and never said anything - they're know for that.
I would say bollocks, no cop ever disappeared on Aruba and if you think otherwise I'd like to see some proof.
Also please explain what the 'KLPD are know for' according to you.

Did the KLPD ever release any of the findings for the Holloway case?

The results of the drug dogs at the Sloot home? the computers that were confiscated, the Sloot mobiles that were taken?

Did they ever release the video confession taken of Joran that Paulus said was taken after hours for a minor?

Did the KLPD ever release any findings from their search of the Sloot home the second time they were there and measured the back wall? and dug in the garden?

Did the KLPD ever release anything??

yep - I'd say they are known for that.

And you don't know that a cop has never turned up missing. Thank you very much. This is Aruba were Betico Croes was killed in a conspiracy in Christmas eve as he was getting ready to take power. If someone can kill him a cop is nothing.


So there!!!! ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 06:08:39 PM
If Aruba wants to do damage control all they would have to do is negotiate a deal with the Kalpoe brothers and have one of them come forward and say I know where Natalee's body is and I'm ready to lead you to where the body is.  Then Aruba can have their fake press conference and say Deepak confessed and he lead us to where they buried Natalee and we found a body and we are sending it for testing.  It will show there was no corruption on the ALE's part.

one poster likes this post. and finds it helpful.

Two posters likes this post. and finds it helpful.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 06:09:54 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




Oh my!!!! ::MonkeyNoNo::

Mind if I ask just what action he took on his own?

After he had been in communication with us (Natalee's Freebirds) since before Persistence left the US, in March 2008 he got in touch with us to help him put all his information and images together properly for presentation.  He said he had shared them with the FBI and Beth...........that turned out to be a lie.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 06:11:48 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




Mind if I ask just what action he took on his own?

After he had been in communication with us (Natalee's Freebirds) since before Persistence left the US, in March 2008 he got in touch with us to help him put all his information and images together properly for presentation.  He said he had shared them with the FBI and Beth...........that turned out to be a lie.

Well I screwed up that previous post...Oh my!!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 06:15:40 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own




Kyle Kingman's intentions were honorable when he first shared his concerns with the Natalee's Freebirds' forum.  However ... somewhere along the line he backtracked on his intentions in regards to exposing to Beth Holloway the Persistence betrayal

Could it be that Kyle feared a lawsuit for breaking a confidentiality agreement?

Could it be that he feared future opportunities were at risk in regards to his profession?

Could it that greed entered the picture in regards to the ROV footage and network negotiations?

Janet

++++++

THE DOCUMENT!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08
:  Since I got the go ahead from Trahan, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

jen3560 - Scared Monkeys   


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 24, 2010, 06:20:10 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............

Holy cow wreck.  You don't have to duck as far as I'm concerned.  I was having the exact same thoughts late last night.  I have felt for a while now that something was up.  I guess about the time Beth went to Peru.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Lifesong on November 24, 2010, 06:20:11 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/polishats1.jpg)

Hi Rob,

I went through a period of time where I also believed it could be a hat.  In the end, this explanation from Kyle convinced me that what I thought might be the "shield emblem" on the hat was instead biological material on the skirt.

Quote
Kyle Kingman:  “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.”



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: snoopy on November 24, 2010, 06:22:08 PM
When I heard the horrible comments from Tim about Beth's visit from Peru, I started asking myself if maybe Tim was supposed to "find Natalee" with a nod from Aruba. Aruba's motive? Joran had been arrested for killing Stephany and it doesn't help Aruba's image that they basically allowed that and it gave credibility to Beth's claims of corruption and cover up.

I thought that perhaps Tim's rant was because Beth was throwing a monkey wrench in the plan. She was, once again, putting the story back on the front page and garnering more sympathy.
  Yep.  JMO  But I don't blame Beth one bit.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Blue Moon on November 24, 2010, 06:31:03 PM
My personal opinion of Tim Miller is he got caught up in the moment of Silvetti and their company--multi million dollar business and very successful men and the equipment is something only Tim could have dreamed of for ES.  Tim's biggest problem started with the Persistance but ended with the Anthony family and his big mess up involving himself personally in the Haleigh case.  I think think Tim lost all credibility being involved with the Anthony's and that was furthered by setting up that sting in the Haleigh case.  Tim has done extremely good things in his career that NO ONE can overlook.  But he is searching his life away for dead victims and that has to take a toll on your life after a while.

The end for him came with his diatribe against Beth.  I will always wonder if he ever regrets it or did the "liquid pain-killer" he takes dull his common senses so much he doesn't realize what he has done.   JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 06:50:23 PM
Remember, salt water sets color. I suppose in time, it would fade regardless, but that hat would have to have faded a lot to change so much. JMO.

The sunlight would fade it the quickest.  So would depend upon how much light filters down to 90ft below.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tater on November 24, 2010, 07:04:26 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/polishats1.jpg)

Hi Rob,

I went through a period of time where I also believed it could be a hat.  In the end, this explanation from Kyle convinced me that what I thought might be the "shield emblem" on the hat was instead biological material on the skirt.

Quote
Kyle Kingman:  “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another  type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.”



And the saddest thing about it all is they dropped the ball concerning it and we will never ever know for sure.. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 24, 2010, 07:27:56 PM
Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............

Holy cow wreck.  You don't have to duck as far as I'm concerned.  I was having the exact same thoughts late last night.  I have felt for a while now that something was up.  I guess about the time Beth went to Peru.

My thoughts too.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 07:37:29 PM
Looks like a cross of some sort.

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee%20Holloway%20-%20New%20Folder/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3blownup.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 07:42:45 PM
Looks like a cross of some sort.

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee%20Holloway%20-%20New%20Folder/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3blownup.jpg)

Sorry, looks like a cross on some kind of material, be in a denim skirt or shirt or hat... Still looks like a cross to me. When I do a color invert, the background turns very dark so I know it's on a white or very light background. If it were a brass shield, it wouldn't do that on color invert. If it were some kind of "patch" shield (such as a service hat), then it could show up dark on invert. Either way, there's a "fold" in whatever material it is - whether it's a hat or skirt or whatever. Maybe it's not really a cross, but it sure does appear to look like one when enlarged.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 07:48:06 PM
Looks like a cross of some sort.

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee%20Holloway%20-%20New%20Folder/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3blownup.jpg)

Sorry, looks like a cross on some kind of material, be in a denim skirt or shirt or hat... Still looks like a cross to me. When I do a color invert, the background turns very dark so I know it's on a white or very light background. If it were a brass shield, it wouldn't do that on color invert. If it were some kind of "patch" shield (such as a service hat), then it could show up dark on invert. Either way, there's a "fold" in whatever material it is - whether it's a hat or skirt or whatever. Maybe it's not really a cross, but it sure does appear to look like one when enlarged.

Oops, plus there's a number 25. Sooo, a cross and a number 25. I didn't see that on Natalee's skirt that she was pictured in.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Curly on November 24, 2010, 08:14:23 PM
I agree, CBB. Looks like a pelvis bone and Natalee's skirt.

Hiya, Curly! I answered your post in my thread!  ::MonkeyWink::

Yeah, I'm really sure about the bone there. So are 2 Physicians, 1 RN and a Nurse Practitioner. I made them look at it today!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thx, CBB.
Those opinions are good enough for me.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Anna on November 24, 2010, 09:43:42 PM
Hi ALL.

Just wanted to say - I'm with Anna on the service hat. I did a comparison a while back and can post it again, if anyone wants. But I think it is a cop's hat.

And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops? Could it be a dirty cop that disappeared years and years ago? Seems like they have been wearing these caps and uniforms for decades. And couldn't this also be a good clean cop that didn't adhere to the Aruba Dirty Polis?

Aren't all those things possible too? I guess we could be so jaded by all the lies that when they tell the truth - we just don't believe it. I think the fact that they took off with the remains - leads everyone to think something went down and it was underhanded. But maybe they KNEW this cop was killed and maybe they didn't want that all coming out. Anyway - those are just some additional possibilities, but in the end - who knows.

What we do know - it was a person. That's confirmed and they said so themselves and the DNA lasted between 3 and 10 years according to Kyle who said he thought the trap was in the water that long. There is also the trap was there and someone placed a body there years later - but in any event - it was a person.

Maybe, believe it or not - Natalee has not been found, yet. Or maybe is unable to be found - and that's the reason why Joran laughs. Maybe, San's correct and she is on land. MAYBE in a tomb and will never be found. I don't know. But I think there is also the possibility that Zandaam was right when he said - the body of Natalee was found in two days and a favor was done for the son of Paulus to exculpate him. Mayyybbbe.


And Aruba is not the only place in the world to have cops and some cops even have a different colored service cap.  Other people wear service caps and it might belong to some sort of boatman.

Anything is possible.  But I know what I see and before the remains were moved, the cap was just below the chin of what many called a skull where it likely would have been had someone been wearing it when they were put in that trap.

What would commercial fishermen do with a body is someone died aboard their fishing boats?  Or if they killed someone and wanted to dispose of the body so it wouldn't float?

What has been seen can't be unseen by me.  But one thing is for sure--we don't and likely will never know if that was Natalee in the fish trap or who it was because ALE absconded with the remains.

So if Tim Miller is so hot to trot to go back and search the other targets, will that just be handed over to Aruba as well?  It is their territorial waters and so some protocol for sharing would have to be in place before any search is undertaken.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: wreck on November 24, 2010, 09:53:27 PM
Hi ALL.

Just wanted to say - I'm with Anna on the service hat. I did a comparison a while back and can post it again, if anyone wants. But I think it is a cop's hat.

And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops? Could it be a dirty cop that disappeared years and years ago? Seems like they have been wearing these caps and uniforms for decades. And couldn't this also be a good clean cop that didn't adhere to the Aruba Dirty Polis?

Aren't all those things possible too? I guess we could be so jaded by all the lies that when they tell the truth - we just don't believe it. I think the fact that they took off with the remains - leads everyone to think something went down and it was underhanded. But maybe they KNEW this cop was killed and maybe they didn't want that all coming out. Anyway - those are just some additional possibilities, but in the end - who knows.

What we do know - it was a person. That's confirmed and they said so themselves and the DNA lasted between 3 and 10 years according to Kyle who said he thought the trap was in the water that long. There is also the trap was there and someone placed a body there years later - but in any event - it was a person.

Maybe, believe it or not - Natalee has not been found, yet. Or maybe is unable to be found - and that's the reason why Joran laughs. Maybe, San's correct and she is on land. MAYBE in a tomb and will never be found. I don't know. But I think there is also the possibility that Zandaam was right when he said - the body of Natalee was found in two days and a favor was done for the son of Paulus to exculpate him. Mayyybbbe.


And Aruba is not the only place in the world to have cops and some cops even have a different colored service cap.  Other people wear service caps and it might belong to some sort of boatman.

Anything is possible.  But I know what I see and before the remains were moved, the cap was just below the chin of what many called a skull where it likely would have been had someone been wearing it when they were put in that trap.

What would commercial fishermen do with a body is someone died aboard their fishing boats?  Or if they killed someone and wanted to dispose of the body so it wouldn't float?

What has been seen can't be unseen by me.  But one thing is for sure--we don't and likely will never know if that was Natalee in the fish trap or who it was because ALE absconded with the remains.

So if Tim Miller is so hot to trot to go back and search the other targets, will that just be handed over to Aruba as well?  It is their territorial waters and so some protocol for sharing would have to be in place before any search is undertaken.

JMO
I think that is the bottom line -- we may all see different things in that trap -- but, we will never know because ALE absconded with the contents.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 24, 2010, 09:57:25 PM
Kyle: If I didn't believe in what I witnessed and what I found, I wouldn't have shared it with anyone, especially on the net. If I wasn't absolutely disturbed at how things turned out because of the project leads and corrupt officials I would NEVER have taken any action on my own


Prior to Kyle Kngman posting on the Natalee's Freebirds' forum he did take action pertaining to his professional analysis of the ROV footage of the December 30, 2007 observation dive ... the observation dive when Aruban divers declared the contents of the trap were not relevant to the Natalee Holloway case.  Kyle took the initiative of sending six screenshots to the FBI ... screenshots captured from the ROV footage.

Janet

++++++++


oceanexploration
 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM  »


There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.

<snipped>

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047


Video 2 - December 30, 2007

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2345841784_52614dbecb_o.jpg)

Klaasend


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 10:15:12 PM
Hi ALL.

Just wanted to say - I'm with Anna on the service hat. I did a comparison a while back and can post it again, if anyone wants. But I think it is a cop's hat.

And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops? Could it be a dirty cop that disappeared years and years ago? Seems like they have been wearing these caps and uniforms for decades. And couldn't this also be a good clean cop that didn't adhere to the Aruba Dirty Polis?

Aren't all those things possible too? I guess we could be so jaded by all the lies that when they tell the truth - we just don't believe it. I think the fact that they took off with the remains - leads everyone to think something went down and it was underhanded. But maybe they KNEW this cop was killed and maybe they didn't want that all coming out. Anyway - those are just some additional possibilities, but in the end - who knows.

What we do know - it was a person. That's confirmed and they said so themselves and the DNA lasted between 3 and 10 years according to Kyle who said he thought the trap was in the water that long. There is also the trap was there and someone placed a body there years later - but in any event - it was a person.

Maybe, believe it or not - Natalee has not been found, yet. Or maybe is unable to be found - and that's the reason why Joran laughs. Maybe, San's correct and she is on land. MAYBE in a tomb and will never be found. I don't know. But I think there is also the possibility that Zandaam was right when he said - the body of Natalee was found in two days and a favor was done for the son of Paulus to exculpate him. Mayyybbbe.


And Aruba is not the only place in the world to have cops and some cops even have a different colored service cap.  Other people wear service caps and it might belong to some sort of boatman.

Anything is possible.  But I know what I see and before the remains were moved, the cap was just below the chin of what many called a skull where it likely would have been had someone been wearing it when they were put in that trap.

What would commercial fishermen do with a body is someone died aboard their fishing boats?  Or if they killed someone and wanted to dispose of the body so it wouldn't float?

What has been seen can't be unseen by me.  But one thing is for sure--we don't and likely will never know if that was Natalee in the fish trap or who it was because ALE absconded with the remains.

So if Tim Miller is so hot to trot to go back and search the other targets, will that just be handed over to Aruba as well?  It is their territorial waters and so some protocol for sharing would have to be in place before any search is undertaken.

JMO
I think that is the bottom line -- we may all see different things in that trap -- but, we will never know because ALE absconded with the contents.

Hey guys, Anna may be onto something...

Rob, check it out:

Korps Politie Aruba
http://www.kparuba.com/albums/korpsdag/index.htm

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee Holloway - New Folder/arubanpolis200.jpg)

Now, compare it to the blown-up photo I supplied earlier:

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee Holloway - New Folder/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3blownup.jpg)

Could the cross symbol be similar? Could it actually be a sword inverted? Also, I noticed that the newer police people have a silver shield. It appears that the officers in authority may have brass shields (on their hats). Maybe this is an unfounded assumption, but hmmm, it would explain why the shield or patch would show up as black (or very dark) when the color is inverted on the picture.


... One last question: Are the Vrolijk's related to the Croes'? ...



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
advocate de hoogd is tell cu apparently banco central owing to sleep during 17 year


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

publication: diaranson, 24 november 2010. categoria: general

in caso stanford international bank: *abogado of bc is indica cu is show because; if fuera de hoogd is ‘stroman’ for hendenan misterioso

(http://www.diario.aw/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/interbank.jpg)

oranjestad (aan): tuesday daily paper because; unique medio of prensa was present at corte, where cu did take lugar continuacion of one caso among ‘stichting stanford aruba’ y banco central of aruba. the proceso among the two partidonan owing to cuminza for of enough time end, where cu several documento owing to worde intercambia among the partidonan y huez of corte of husticia. tuesday was the day place for her caso worde deal. is so cu stichting stanford aruba is one fundacion arise for one are of alrededor of 25 person perhudica door of stanford international bank (sib).

at 1992 stanford owing to acerca banco central of aruba for her achieve one licencia because; banco, but this owing to worde deny. via one another caminda past owing to succeed become activo on market of aruba. the banco was ofrece interest high (9% y mas), for person deposita they coin.

much person owing to haci this y at 2009 hour cu sib owing to cay in another, much person mundialmente owing to lose sumanan big of coin. at aruba also this was the caso then y provided that overall hendenan on the island owing to lose alrededor of 35 miyon dollar.

advocate gabri de hoogd owing to representa stichting stanford aruba (ssa) in name of the alrededor of 25 person perhudica. past owing to trece fast cu all the organizacion of stanford is in estado of bancarota y do not cla still if esnan perhudica will ricibi compensacion for thing they owing to lose.

past owing to tell if cu thing is assure is cu they will not achieve 100% of the coin cu they owing to inverti. ssa owing to cuminza the caso contra banco central, because according ssa, one of the rolnan more important of banco central is for ehecuta supervision y control on actividadnan of banco y of another instancianan financiero, according the ltk, cu is landsverordening toezicht kredietwezen (Credit System Supervision Ordinance).

the advocate owing to trece fast cu because; such banco central have to can owing to actua at time during the 17 añanan cu stanford owing to opera at aruba, for so evita thing owing to sosode.

banco central then have to as one view on all instancianan monetario of cual the actividadnan will can have one influencia on the stabilidad monetario y reputacion financiero of aruba. de hoogd owing to splica cu banco central was at height cu algo not was good cu stanford international bank.

according the advocate, proof of this is cu in amigoe of aruba owing to leave one articulo on 19 of feburary 2009, in cual have stop cu banco central for añanan largo was preocupa on stanford. de hoogd owing to tell cu provided that vez of haci algo, banco central owing to sleep during of 17 year y door of this several person at aruba owing to worde perhudica financieramente.

pesey ssa is buscando one compensacion of part of banco central, but esey will have to come fast in another procedura. banco central owing to worde representa for advocate allart haasjes that owing to come for of the netherlands y past owing to worde asisti for mr. anthony carlo.

banco central his sharp of view principal is cu the peticion of stichting stanford aruba have to worde declara not admisible. according the advocate, banco central not can worde poni responsible for her actonan of stanford international bank.

banco central not owing to give stanford the permission of opera because; banco. haasjes owing to cuestiona also the mature cu de hoogd is tell of representa one cantidad of person cu is part of the stichting, but till still none person know is that is all the personanan in the stichting.

according the advocate dutch, is show as de hoogd is actua because; ‘stroman’, for one are of person cu will have cierto motibonan dark for not give informacion of they self, incluyendo informacion financiero.

the advocate owing to tell also cu is possible cu one procedura is worde take away at corte in name of person cu do not existi. haasjes owing to tell also cu ssa not owing to trece fast at one as cla, in what sense banco central will owing to abort y kico banco central can owing to haci.

past owing to trece fast also cu banco central not was have the autoridad of actua contra stanford international bank. huez at end owing to tell cu the is bay give his veredicto day 26 of january.


http://www.diario.aw/2010/11/abogado-de-hoogd-ta-bisa-cu-aparentemente-banco-central-a-drumi-durante-17-ana/

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81427.php

Google translation:

Stanford dupeerde Aruba for $ 35,000,000 "

November 24, 2010, 13:21 (GMT -04:00)

Email this article 
Print this article 
 
(http://www.amigoe.com/artman/uploads/aua-voor_044.gif)

Housed here until last year Stanford Aruba.

ORANGE CITY - After the Stanford Foundation Aruba, Aruba representing victims of Stanford Group, in September last year the Central Bank Aruba (CBA) sued for, the treatment took place yesterday. It said the Hoogd Gabriella lawyer representing the foundation, which alone in Aruba from the American group totaling 35 million U.S. dollars in damages performed.

It is the first time that such an amount is known about the impact of the scandal surrounding Aruba Stanford. The U.S. authorities in February last year complained to Allen Stanford because of its one billion fraud in investment banking and investment. Thousands of people were thus lost their money. Stanford was also represented in Aruba and the Headquarters was officially registered in the commercial and investment consultancy. It was not allowed to operate as a bank and was therefore not under the control of the Central Bank. Despite this, the victims who are in the Foundation have joined Stanford Aruba that CBA should exercise oversight and wrongly failed to do. They enable the Bank whatsoever, and demands compensation. It is not clear what kind of damage they demand.

In the lawsuit yesterday Hoogd refers again to the Daily Herald last year that an article published in February. It gave the Central Bank that they feel from the outset that Stanford also settled here, has been worrying about the practices of the company. Thereby spreading the plant leaflets which promised investors a high interest rate. In discussions with the Central Bank promised Stanford however, that no deposits of under 1 ton florin would be adopted. Because then the site will be supervised by CBA. When the scandal leaked by the victims revealed quite clearly that Stanford Aruba florin took deposits below 100,000. This enables the lawyer Hoogd However, based on the statements of victims.

Counsel also stated yesterday, also based on testimony that Stanford should have been registered as a credit institution. The site was registered or as consultants, called The Hoogd in court, but actually acted as a bank. CBA had to have known, says he, something also confirmed to the Daily Herald article, and must act.

Foundation members not known
Lawyer Carlo of the party once again put in doubt the victims are represented by the foundation. It can therefore just as well that no one represented the foundation, said the counsel who represented the Central Bank. In January this year spoke of the Hoogd in this newspaper still has a 'fifty' victims who had represented the foundation. Carlo also denied that CBA has failed in its oversight and suggested that the Court in another case concerning the Central Bank of the Netherlands Antilles concluded that it can act against credit limits. The ruling on January 26 next year.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 10:38:04 PM
To me, what it looks like depends upon which photo angle you are looking at.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/trapkerm2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/trapkerm1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:47:45 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81424.php

Google translation:

ARUBA

Holloway Mother 'deeply disappointed' OM

November 24, 2010, 1:19 p.m. (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - Beth Twitty, mother of Natalee Holloway disappeared in 2005, found that the jawbone accepts not her daughter but is very disappointed about the way the Aruban OM this information put forward.

"Apparently the Aruban OM media more important than the painful wake of a mother," said Beth's lawyer John Kelly in the U.S. media. Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted by the inexplicably long wait and very disappointed in the way and when they the results of the investigation was told. "Advocate-General of OM Taco Stein says that Beth is indeed a press release been informed. "We had one or a few days before Kelly received a letter of attorney, which request was, to her in advance to let you know when the results of the study would be positive. It was not, so she was like the rest of the world's press release sent yesterday. "Stein said to understand that Beth was disappointed in the result, but would not comment further on its response in the American media.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 10:48:39 PM
To me, what it looks like depends upon which photo angle you are looking at.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/trapkerm2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/trapkerm1.jpg)

Agree. Hey Klaas, do you know if the Vrolijk family and the Croes family are related? Also, do you happen to know if Rudolf H. Vrolijk (aka capslockwizard) and Willem Vrolijk are the same person (or related)? I don't mean to rehash anything but I'm going over old notes from back before I was a member here & just used to lurk...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 10:53:02 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/TrapCloseup2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 10:53:28 PM
Titch - in Aruba they are ALL RELATED.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 24, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I see a cop hat...(Rob, Anna) I see what CBB sees too, with the bones.


...and on the right night, after a hot tottie and 1 benadryl... I can see Natalee in it! ::MonkeyHaHa::

I love you guys. I think you're all right. ::MonkeyKiss::

Happy Thanksgiving!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 10:57:44 PM
TM might be better answering the Vrolijk question.  There are 158 Vrolijk's in Aruba just in this phone book:

http://s2.arubayp.com/sys/pageserver.dll?s=-8&go=vrolijk&pa=Aruba%2FResidential


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 10:57:56 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81425.php

Google translation:

ARUBA

Eman warns of migration

November 24, 2010, 13:20 (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY / THE HAGUE - Premier Mike Eman (AVP) from Aruba today asked the House to take into account the effects of a favorable tax regime in Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba.

He did this during a meeting with the members of the committee Kingdom Affairs. D66 MP Wassila Hachchi asked him about the relationship between the three islands and Aruba. "We have with great interest the developments considered. Netherlands as a part of the needs of an island, with that assistance is disproportionate, then a situation of unfair competition. We have no indication that there is any, but we do have drawn attention to this. Of course we give our sister island is a small lead through a small injection of funds, but in the long term we need a balance, otherwise you get migration. It is easy to do on another island to settle. Not only because of the law, but also because of the wealth. "

Asked by CDA MP Bas Jan Bochenek how the experiences in this regard with Venezuela are Eman replied diplomatically that Venezuela is not the same guarantees as the countries within the Dutch Kingdom. "We are indeed dealing with a large migration from countries like Venezuela and Colombia. If there are large differences in wealth, then this has implications for the migration.''


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 11:01:04 PM
Titch - in Aruba they are ALL RELATED.

Well I'm looking at Willem's youtube channel & they look extremely similar - right down to their wire frame glasses. Willem is in politics in Aruba, or running for office or something, and is promoting Air Arubs. Should I post a photo comparison? I just thought it was extremely uncanny. I never once thought that photo from the cage showed a hat of any kind, not I'm rethinking that based on the blow up andseeing the #25 plus a patch/shield of some sort. I keep going over Natalee's denim skirt & I can't find any pics with patches on her skirt. So, since I'm attempting to look "outside the box" right now, I thought to look through their police officers' pics - whatever I could come up with. I ran across some of my old notes on capslockwizard so decided to venture to your archives earlier - that's when I remembered the Air Aruba videos. I can't remember - maybe from earlier this year or last year? I just thought it was strange...especially considering all or most of us believe this is all about tourism (to paint a bad picture of Natalee & the shoddy discard of her body).


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 11:07:15 PM
Titch - in Aruba they are ALL RELATED.

Well I'm looking at Willem's youtube channel & they look extremely similar - right down to their wire frame glasses. Willem is in politics in Aruba, or running for office or something, and is promoting Air Arubs. Should I post a photo comparison? I just thought it was extremely uncanny. I never once thought that photo from the cage showed a hat of any kind, not I'm rethinking that based on the blow up andseeing the #25 plus a patch/shield of some sort. I keep going over Natalee's denim skirt & I can't find any pics with patches on her skirt. So, since I'm attempting to look "outside the box" right now, I thought to look through their police officers' pics - whatever I could come up with. I ran across some of my old notes on capslockwizard so decided to venture to your archives earlier - that's when I remembered the Air Aruba videos. I can't remember - maybe from earlier this year or last year? I just thought it was strange...especially considering all or most of us believe this is all about tourism (to paint a bad picture of Natalee & the shoddy discard of her body).

Klaas, and this - Willem was running for the MPA. Isn't that the Aruban Patriotic Movement? They flipping look alike!


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:11:01 PM
TM might be better answering the Vrolijk question.  There are 158 Vrolijk's in Aruba just in this phone book:

http://s2.arubayp.com/sys/pageserver.dll?s=-8&go=vrolijk&pa=Aruba%2FResidential

I don't really know.  But I tend to agree with you.  If not by blood, they probably are by marriage somewhere down the line.

JMO



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 11:16:54 PM
Titch - in Aruba they are ALL RELATED.

Well I'm looking at Willem's youtube channel & they look extremely similar - right down to their wire frame glasses. Willem is in politics in Aruba, or running for office or something, and is promoting Air Arubs. Should I post a photo comparison? I just thought it was extremely uncanny. I never once thought that photo from the cage showed a hat of any kind, not I'm rethinking that based on the blow up andseeing the #25 plus a patch/shield of some sort. I keep going over Natalee's denim skirt & I can't find any pics with patches on her skirt. So, since I'm attempting to look "outside the box" right now, I thought to look through their police officers' pics - whatever I could come up with. I ran across some of my old notes on capslockwizard so decided to venture to your archives earlier - that's when I remembered the Air Aruba videos. I can't remember - maybe from earlier this year or last year? I just thought it was strange...especially considering all or most of us believe this is all about tourism (to paint a bad picture of Natalee & the shoddy discard of her body).

Klaas, and this - Willem was running for the MPA. Isn't that the Aruban Patriotic Movement? They flipping look alike!

Could you post the link to his youtube?  TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 11:20:58 PM
You do know that Air Aruba is a Virtual Airlines right?

http://www.air-aruba.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 11:29:46 PM
Titch - in Aruba they are ALL RELATED.

Well I'm looking at Willem's youtube channel & they look extremely similar - right down to their wire frame glasses. Willem is in politics in Aruba, or running for office or something, and is promoting Air Arubs. Should I post a photo comparison? I just thought it was extremely uncanny. I never once thought that photo from the cage showed a hat of any kind, not I'm rethinking that based on the blow up andseeing the #25 plus a patch/shield of some sort. I keep going over Natalee's denim skirt & I can't find any pics with patches on her skirt. So, since I'm attempting to look "outside the box" right now, I thought to look through their police officers' pics - whatever I could come up with. I ran across some of my old notes on capslockwizard so decided to venture to your archives earlier - that's when I remembered the Air Aruba videos. I can't remember - maybe from earlier this year or last year? I just thought it was strange...especially considering all or most of us believe this is all about tourism (to paint a bad picture of Natalee & the shoddy discard of her body).

Klaas, and this - Willem was running for the MPA. Isn't that the Aruban Patriotic Movement? They flipping look alike!

Could you post the link to his youtube?  TIA

Here ya go:
(If you go through his videos, look for various angles and different shades of his glasses. They resemble the same person Klaas. Have to at least be related. This Willem dude I guess became president of the MPA?)

http://www.youtube.com/user/votawillem#p/u/0/S1HREc8brS4


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:30:13 PM
Note:  The spelling of the name is actually Edwin Duijneveld

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81422.php

Google translation:

ARUBA

Lawyer Duijn Field for court

November 24, 2010, 13:13 (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - The criminal case against lawyer Edwin Duijn Field for his alleged part in the Domino Case is now treated.

Duijn Field by the Public suspected of complicity in fraudulent bankruptcy, bankruptcy fraud, illegal possession of ammunition and falsehood in geschrifte.De lawyer would with his business partner Peter Mohamed money from the bankrupt Luis Mansur have diverted or the bankruptcy of Mansur have held. That money would then be used to finance drug trafficking Mansur. Bigwig Mansur finally got a prison sentence of nearly seven years. He oversaw an extensive criminal network bulk drugs to Aruba and other countries in the region, smuggled and trafficked. Duijn Field was in connection with the case two years ago, 19 days onto the same suspicions. During a pro forma session in March, the case against Mohamed and Field Duijn ear postponed indefinitely. In June Duijn Field had a complaint against the Public Prosecutor (OM) in the Common Court of Justice. That was rejected.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:31:03 PM
 ::MonkeyHaHa::  Two links in that one! 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 24, 2010, 11:31:08 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81424.php

Google translation:

ARUBA

Holloway Mother 'deeply disappointed' OM

November 24, 2010, 1:19 p.m. (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - Beth Twitty, mother of Natalee Holloway disappeared in 2005, found that the jawbone accepts not her daughter but is very disappointed about the way the Aruban OM this information put forward.

"Apparently the Aruban OM media more important than the painful wake of a mother," said Beth's lawyer John Kelly in the U.S. media. Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted by the inexplicably long wait and very disappointed in the way and when they the results of the investigation was told. "Advocate-General of OM Taco Stein says that Beth is indeed a press release been informed. "We had one or a few days before Kelly received a letter of attorney, which request was, to her in advance to let you know when the results of the study would be positive. It was not, so she was like the rest of the world's press release sent yesterday. "Stein said to understand that Beth was disappointed in the result, but would not comment further on its response in the American media.

Is this saying that because the test wasn't positive, Beth was condsidered like the rest of world? Are you kidding me? She's the Parent of the object of all the speculation! How cold can the bastards get? Even they aren't stupid enough to not realize the impact to the parents waiting to find out if their daughter's remains had been found.

 ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 11:31:46 PM
Does not look like Rudy Vrolijk to me.  This is Willem Vrolijk:

http://www.youtube.com/user/votawillem#p/u/4/z9hYKKi9z2I

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/WillemVrolijk.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Titch on November 24, 2010, 11:33:29 PM
One more question, was it ever determined the brand of Natalee's denim mini skirt? The reason I'm asking is because the #25 that I'm seeing in the blown up pic could actually be a size tag.

What brands are out there? Rock & Republic, True Religion, Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister...


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 24, 2010, 11:34:06 PM
You do know that Air Aruba is a Virtual Airlines right?

http://www.air-aruba.com/

That's the Aruban way. They are a virtual country, too. The entire island is like a Disney Land prop. They just keep shuffling actors around to new positions every so often.

The hotter things get; the faster they are switched out.

Love it when Taco Frankenstein was doing the Larry King interview and said he had not reviewed the entire Natalee file... so, the stuff that happened before he was put into position is not important, I guess. So said the Stein.

Under which nut shell is the pea? Step right up! Try your luck and make a guess.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:36:08 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81383.php

Discovered jaw does not belong to Natalee Holloway

23 Nov, 2010, 07:54 (GMT -04:00)

Email dit artikel 
Print dit artikel 

ORANJESTAD — The jawbone part that was found on the beach of Divi Phoenix Hotel two weeks ago, does not belong to the American teenager Natalee Holloway, who’s been missing since 2005.

This appears from research by the Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI). The Public Prosecutor (OM) announced this in a press report this afternoon.

At the request of the Aruban OM, the NFI conducted forensic anthropologic investigation on the piece of jawbone with a tooth. They simultaneously conducted a DNA research from which it appeared that it indeed was a human jaw. Whether it had been the jaw of a female or a male, still remains unclear. Solicitor general (AG) Taco Stein says it is very difficult to determine the sex without further affecting the evidence. In addition, it is also difficult to say whether the jaw belonged to a female or male due to the mixed composition of the ‘Caribbean’ population, according to Stein.

Missing persons
In any case, one is checking the Aruban list of missing persons to see if a link could be made with the jaw. Whether there’s a possible link to Vincenzo Tromp, who disappeared in 2008, one cannot say yet, according to Stein. The Solicitor general states that justice didn’t find more material besides the jawbone that was found on the beach and after having searched for more evidence a few days afterwards. The other bone on which the American press reported yesterday and that was found in the neighborhood, does not appear to be from a human being, says Stein.

After it was determined that it regarded a human, the forensic anthropologic research was widened with a forensic odontology research. Based on dental data (amongst others the position of wisdom teeth and fillings) from Natalee Holloway, which her family provided, a comparison was made with the found jaw. Based on these comparisons, one was able to preclude that the found jaw material and the tooth did not belong to Holloway.

Once NFI arrived at this conclusion, the DNA research was halted. DNA researchers from NFI had used very refined techniques to examine the DNA present in the bone. The small amount of DNA material was of low quality.

The bone material was badly damaged due to all sorts of (weather) influences, and was porous. According to the OM, ‘it is within the bound of possibilities to use the tooth from the jawbone for further attempts to come up with a DNA profile’. However, such a research ‘impedes’ future research into the identification of the person to whom that bone belonged to. ‘As one was already able to preclude that the piece of bone did not belong to Natalee Holloway based on the dental data’, the OM in Aruba decided not to have this follow up research done just yet.

It was only yesterday that the Dutch crime reporter Peter R. de Vries stated through the media that the authorities had not contacted Beth Twitty – Natalees’s mother – yet. The FBI would have informed Natalee’s mother immediately if the bone had belonged to Holloway, according to De Vries.

American press
However, it did not stop the American press from assuming the possibility beforehand that the jaw indeed belonged to Natalee. CNN soon dispatched a team that posted themselves at the Public Prosecutor. The breaking news in the TV-program from the American Nancy Grace last night was that one had even found a second bone on the beach at Divi Phoenix. Nearly the entire broadcast was in the theme of this discovery.

Experts in DNA research were given the floor during the program and there was a short interview with the tourists who had found the second bone. It regards an American mother and her minor son. They said they had brought the bone to the hotel’s reception and were amazed to hear that the hotel employees did not want to call the police because they did not want any negative publicity for the hotel. A bar with the message that ‘officials would come with a statement within several hours’ could be seen during the entire broadcast. However, that statement was still not on her website this morning. Reports that the found piece of bone could possibly be a sparerib, could not be confirmed just yet. In any case, the OM states that the police picked up the bone yesterday and that is now appears, it is not from a human being.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:39:37 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_81424.php

Google translation:

ARUBA

Holloway Mother 'deeply disappointed' OM

November 24, 2010, 1:19 p.m. (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - Beth Twitty, mother of Natalee Holloway disappeared in 2005, found that the jawbone accepts not her daughter but is very disappointed about the way the Aruban OM this information put forward.

"Apparently the Aruban OM media more important than the painful wake of a mother," said Beth's lawyer John Kelly in the U.S. media. Beth accepts the forensic conclusions, is emotionally exhausted by the inexplicably long wait and very disappointed in the way and when they the results of the investigation was told. "Advocate-General of OM Taco Stein says that Beth is indeed a press release been informed. "We had one or a few days before Kelly received a letter of attorney, which request was, to her in advance to let you know when the results of the study would be positive. It was not, so she was like the rest of the world's press release sent yesterday. "Stein said to understand that Beth was disappointed in the result, but would not comment further on its response in the American media.

Is this saying that because the test wasn't positive, Beth was condsidered like the rest of world? Are you kidding me? She's the Parent of the object of all the speculation! How cold can the bastards get? Even they aren't stupid enough to not realize the impact to the parents waiting to find out if their daughter's remains had been found.

 ::MonkeyMad::

That's my understanding too CBB.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyMad::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 11:41:52 PM
Hi ALL.

Just wanted to say - I'm with Anna on the service hat. I did a comparison a while back and can post it again, if anyone wants. But I think it is a cop's hat.

And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops? Could it be a dirty cop that disappeared years and years ago? Seems like they have been wearing these caps and uniforms for decades. And couldn't this also be a good clean cop that didn't adhere to the Aruba Dirty Polis?

Aren't all those things possible too? I guess we could be so jaded by all the lies that when they tell the truth - we just don't believe it. I think the fact that they took off with the remains - leads everyone to think something went down and it was underhanded. But maybe they KNEW this cop was killed and maybe they didn't want that all coming out. Anyway - those are just some additional possibilities, but in the end - who knows.

What we do know - it was a person. That's confirmed and they said so themselves and the DNA lasted between 3 and 10 years according to Kyle who said he thought the trap was in the water that long. There is also the trap was there and someone placed a body there years later - but in any event - it was a person.

Maybe, believe it or not - Natalee has not been found, yet. Or maybe is unable to be found - and that's the reason why Joran laughs. Maybe, San's correct and she is on land. MAYBE in a tomb and will never be found. I don't know. But I think there is also the possibility that Zandaam was right when he said - the body of Natalee was found in two days and a favor was done for the son of Paulus to exculpate him. Mayyybbbe.


And Aruba is not the only place in the world to have cops and some cops even have a different colored service cap.  Other people wear service caps and it might belong to some sort of boatman.

Anything is possible.  But I know what I see and before the remains were moved, the cap was just below the chin of what many called a skull where it likely would have been had someone been wearing it when they were put in that trap.

What would commercial fishermen do with a body is someone died aboard their fishing boats?  Or if they killed someone and wanted to dispose of the body so it wouldn't float?

What has been seen can't be unseen by me.  But one thing is for sure--we don't and likely will never know if that was Natalee in the fish trap or who it was because ALE absconded with the remains.

So if Tim Miller is so hot to trot to go back and search the other targets, will that just be handed over to Aruba as well?  It is their territorial waters and so some protocol for sharing would have to be in place before any search is undertaken.

JMO
I think that is the bottom line -- we may all see different things in that trap -- but, we will never know because ALE absconded with the contents.

Hey guys, Anna may be onto something...

Rob, check it out:

Korps Politie Aruba
http://www.kparuba.com/albums/korpsdag/index.htm

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee Holloway - New Folder/arubanpolis200.jpg)

Now, compare it to the blown-up photo I supplied earlier:

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee Holloway - New Folder/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3blownup.jpg)

Could the cross symbol be similar? Could it actually be a sword inverted? Also, I noticed that the newer police people have a silver shield. It appears that the officers in authority may have brass shields (on their hats). Maybe this is an unfounded assumption, but hmmm, it would explain why the shield or patch would show up as black (or very dark) when the color is inverted on the picture.


... One last question: Are the Vrolijk's related to the Croes'? ...



thanks Titch..

but; you must realize that we have been over this a thousand times to Sunday.

To quote Janet -

the chance was most likely lost forever....

this part of the case was really closed when Kyle didn't call the FBI from land.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 24, 2010, 11:44:31 PM
Quote
In addition, it is also difficult to say whether the jaw belonged to a female or male due to the mixed composition of the ‘Caribbean’ population, according to Stein.

::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 11:46:35 PM
I see a cop hat...(Rob, Anna) I see what CBB sees too, with the bones.


...and on the right night, after a hot tottie and 1 benadryl... I can see Natalee in it! ::MonkeyHaHa::

I love you guys. I think you're all right. ::MonkeyKiss::

Happy Thanksgiving!

bro bro - I always said there were bones and a hip socket for sure.

never denied that.  ::MonkeyTongue::

I just didn't see crabs that I want to cook ....  ::rhino::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 24, 2010, 11:51:11 PM
I see a cop hat...(Rob, Anna) I see what CBB sees too, with the bones.


...and on the right night, after a hot tottie and 1 benadryl... I can see Natalee in it! ::MonkeyHaHa::

I love you guys. I think you're all right. ::MonkeyKiss::

Happy Thanksgiving!

bro bro - I always said there were bones and a hip socket for sure.

never denied that.  ::MonkeyTongue::

I just didn't see crabs that I want to cook ....  ::rhino::



 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Oh, I know... I didn't mean to make it look like I excluded ya. Sorry.

You ssssaid "Crabs" ::monkeywine2::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 11:54:17 PM
Quote
In addition, it is also difficult to say whether the jaw belonged to a female or male due to the mixed composition of the ‘Caribbean’ population, according to Stein.

::MonkeyConfused::


Maybe he means they are all Bi  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 11:55:12 PM
Titch - I don't remember the brand of skirt.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SuzieQ on November 24, 2010, 11:55:49 PM
Quote
In addition, it is also difficult to say whether the jaw belonged to a female or male due to the mixed composition of the ‘Caribbean’ population, according to Stein.

::MonkeyConfused::



Don't you just love that quote? What other composition  of the Caribbean population is there besides male and female?  Hummmmmmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 24, 2010, 11:56:33 PM
Quote
In addition, it is also difficult to say whether the jaw belonged to a female or male due to the mixed composition of the ‘Caribbean’ population, according to Stein.

::MonkeyConfused::


 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2010, 11:57:00 PM
I see a cop hat...(Rob, Anna) I see what CBB sees too, with the bones.


...and on the right night, after a hot tottie and 1 benadryl... I can see Natalee in it! ::MonkeyHaHa::

I love you guys. I think you're all right. ::MonkeyKiss::

Happy Thanksgiving!

bro bro - I always said there were bones and a hip socket for sure.

never denied that.  ::MonkeyTongue::

I just didn't see crabs that I want to cook ....  ::rhino::



 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Oh, I know... I didn't mean to make it look like I excluded ya. Sorry.

You ssssaid "Crabs" ::monkeywine2::

you'll ALWAYS be my bro bro!!!

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I know there will be a fight over who loves you most - but it's ME!!!

 ::piggy::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 24, 2010, 11:59:17 PM
I have often wondered about his composition  ::MonkeyDevil::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/RonchideCuba.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: SuzieQ on November 25, 2010, 12:02:42 AM
I have often wondered about his composition  ::MonkeyDevil::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/RonchideCuba.jpg)


I don't think there is anything to wonder about there. LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 25, 2010, 12:03:32 AM
I have often wondered about his composition  ::MonkeyDevil::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub9 June 2010/RonchideCuba.jpg)

You're not the only one!  ::MonkeyEek::  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Rob on November 25, 2010, 12:06:17 AM
I wanna tell you all something - Joran is a dead man and his time on this earth is about over. This is the way the Universe operates.

Good things / Bad things.

Beth will somehow  / someway make her way

Dave will make it too.

The justice we all seek will be delivered in it's own time.

It's very hard to accept that - but it's true. It will happen in it's own time -

Mr. Fate.. KarmaRoundUp... and God control it all.

hang in there...it's been painful for everyone, but it will happen in it's own time.

and that might not be in this lifetime .. as Peaches found...

Love always..

prayers for all of you and Natalee...

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Magnolia on November 25, 2010, 12:11:21 AM
I wanna tell you all something - Joran is a dead man and his time on this earth is about over. This is the way the Universe operates.

Good things / Bad things.

Beth will somehow  / someway make her way

Dave will make it too.

The justice we all seek will be delivered in it's own time.

It's very hard to accept that - but it's true. It will happen in it's own time -

Mr. Fate.. KarmaRoundUp... and God control it all.

hang in there...it's been painful for everyone, but it will happen in it's own time.

and that might not be in this lifetime .. as Peaches found...

Love always..

prayers for all of you and Natalee...

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Rob, you can be such a sweet and kind man. ::MonkeyHeart::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: klaasend on November 25, 2010, 12:16:10 AM
Thanks Rob, very nicely said.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: carpe noctem on November 25, 2010, 12:18:36 AM
I wanna tell you all something - Joran is a dead man and his time on this earth is about over. This is the way the Universe operates.

Good things / Bad things.

Beth will somehow  / someway make her way

Dave will make it too.

The justice we all seek will be delivered in it's own time.

It's very hard to accept that - but it's true. It will happen in it's own time -

Mr. Fate.. KarmaRoundUp... and God control it all.

hang in there...it's been painful for everyone, but it will happen in it's own time.

and that might not be in this lifetime .. as Peaches found...

Love always..

prayers for all of you and Natalee...

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I know that's right! I wish Jug had killed the little son of a .... when he had the chance.
He's too decent of a guy to do that... but I can still dream about it.

Pow! Four of them. Bag them and tag them, baby. I call it COMMUNITY SERVICE.

I believe in giving back.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 25, 2010, 12:32:09 AM
I wanna tell you all something - Joran is a dead man and his time on this earth is about over. This is the way the Universe operates.

Good things / Bad things.

Beth will somehow  / someway make her way

Dave will make it too.

The justice we all seek will be delivered in it's own time.

It's very hard to accept that - but it's true. It will happen in it's own time -

Mr. Fate.. KarmaRoundUp... and God control it all.

hang in there...it's been painful for everyone, but it will happen in it's own time.

and that might not be in this lifetime .. as Peaches found...

Love always..

prayers for all of you and Natalee...

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Thanks Rob!  ::MonkeyKiss:: ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 25, 2010, 02:47:48 AM
1. Was the trap door open when they found it? I ask in regards to anything been planted. Was there some sort of lock on the cage? Was there time enough between the first pictures and the dive for anything to be planted like a hat. Hat looks pretty new to me. Would the plastic or leather trim be affected by salt water.

2. If it was a police shield, was it made of something that the salt water would not destroy?

3. It was mentioned that polyester or some fabric in the past is not affected by salt water. Was at anytime the PO hat shield of Aruba sown on there rather than pinned?

The speakese of the OM is truly sad.  First not informing the family before the press and Yes, male/female can be recognized so we are told. To me to hear that because of a mixed race culture a body part can't be recognized is a slap in the face to intelligence, human dignity and IMO I would question the intelligence of their lab people and their processes.

No pun intended, but the whole thing with the trap smells fishy to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 25, 2010, 03:15:48 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_hjjjk556-1.jpg)

Justice for Natalee...

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/StephanyFlores_takentoosoon-1.jpg)

and Stephany!
 
::MonkeyJustice::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 25, 2010, 03:26:30 AM
Sorry, some of my questions have been answered. Was suffering from HARPY

Newly invented word for Haven't Read Previous Pages Yet


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 25, 2010, 03:30:25 AM
1. Was the trap door open when they found it? I ask in regards to anything been planted. Was there some sort of lock on the cage? Was there time enough between the first pictures and the dive for anything to be planted like a hat. Hat looks pretty new to me. Would the plastic or leather trim be affected by salt water.

2. If it was a police shield, was it made of something that the salt water would not destroy?

3. It was mentioned that polyester or some fabric in the past is not affected by salt water. Was at anytime the PO hat shield of Aruba sown on there rather than pinned?

The speakese of the OM is truly sad.  First not informing the family before the press and Yes, male/female can be recognized so we are told. To me to hear that because of a mixed race culture a body part can't be recognized is a slap in the face to intelligence, human dignity and IMO I would question the intelligence of their lab people and their processes.

No pun intended, but the whole thing with the trap smells fishy to me.

IIRC from Kyle's description the trap door was laying inside the trap when it was found.  There was also a piece of blue tarp found near the trap.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4995.msg827426#msg827426

I don't know if this might answer another question or not...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366321#msg366321


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: cecilita on November 25, 2010, 03:45:45 AM
Hi ALL.

Just wanted to say - I'm with Anna on the service hat. I did a comparison a while back and can post it again, if anyone wants. But I think it is a cop's hat.

And that leads me to this - maybe this was a cop they found in that trap. They said it was MALE DNA but never said who they thought it could be. Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by drug traffickers? Could it be a dirty cop that was whacked by other cops? Could it be a dirty cop that disappeared years and years ago? Seems like they have been wearing these caps and uniforms for decades. And couldn't this also be a good clean cop that didn't adhere to the Aruba Dirty Polis?

Aren't all those things possible too? I guess we could be so jaded by all the lies that when they tell the truth - we just don't believe it. I think the fact that they took off with the remains - leads everyone to think something went down and it was underhanded. But maybe they KNEW this cop was killed and maybe they didn't want that all coming out. Anyway - those are just some additional possibilities, but in the end - who knows.

What we do know - it was a person. That's confirmed and they said so themselves and the DNA lasted between 3 and 10 years according to Kyle who said he thought the trap was in the water that long. There is also the trap was there and someone placed a body there years later - but in any event - it was a person.

Maybe, believe it or not - Natalee has not been found, yet. Or maybe is unable to be found - and that's the reason why Joran laughs. Maybe, San's correct and she is on land. MAYBE in a tomb and will never be found. I don't know. But I think there is also the possibility that Zandaam was right when he said - the body of Natalee was found in two days and a favor was done for the son of Paulus to exculpate him. Mayyybbbe.


And Aruba is not the only place in the world to have cops and some cops even have a different colored service cap.  Other people wear service caps and it might belong to some sort of boatman.

Anything is possible.  But I know what I see and before the remains were moved, the cap was just below the chin of what many called a skull where it likely would have been had someone been wearing it when they were put in that trap.

What would commercial fishermen do with a body is someone died aboard their fishing boats?  Or if they killed someone and wanted to dispose of the body so it wouldn't float?

What has been seen can't be unseen by me.  But one thing is for sure--we don't and likely will never know if that was Natalee in the fish trap or who it was because ALE absconded with the remains.

So if Tim Miller is so hot to trot to go back and search the other targets, will that just be handed over to Aruba as well?  It is their territorial waters and so some protocol for sharing would have to be in place before any search is undertaken.

JMO
I think that is the bottom line -- we may all see different things in that trap -- but, we will never know because ALE absconded with the contents.

Hey guys, Anna may be onto something...

Rob, check it out:

Korps Politie Aruba
http://www.kparuba.com/albums/korpsdag/index.htm

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee Holloway - New Folder/arubanpolis200.jpg)

Now, compare it to the blown-up photo I supplied earlier:

(http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss80/_Titch_/Natalee Holloway - New Folder/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o3blownup.jpg)

Could the cross symbol be similar? Could it actually be a sword inverted? Also, I noticed that the newer police people have a silver shield. It appears that the officers in authority may have brass shields (on their hats). Maybe this is an unfounded assumption, but hmmm, it would explain why the shield or patch would show up as black (or very dark) when the color is inverted on the picture.


... One last question: Are the Vrolijk's related to the Croes'? ...



thanks Titch..

but; you must realize that we have been over this a thousand times to Sunday.

To quote Janet -

the chance was most likely lost forever....

this part of the case was really closed when Kyle didn't call the FBI from land.
it looks like a hat but I think the cross symbol on the jeans/hat  is only a reflect of something, if you see the bag on the left side of the picture you will see that it has the same reflect


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Jamnmom on November 25, 2010, 03:59:18 AM
This doesn't show up here.  Was this place searched? 

bubali bird santuary


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Jamnmom on November 25, 2010, 04:13:27 AM
This doesn't show up here.  Was this place searched? 

bubali bird santuary

I can do a google search and the santuary pops up but when i search here it didn't.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 25, 2010, 04:37:15 AM
This doesn't show up here.  Was this place searched? 

bubali bird santuary

I can do a google search and the santuary pops up but when i search here it didn't.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Summarized from Dave Holloway's book:

The cadaver dogs had some hits there so Dave Holloway and his father in law searched an area in it in September 2005.  This is a very large area Dave Holloway described it as about 20 acres of waist high stagnant water and lily pads.  He said they waded through it for about three hours and it was very difficult to get through.  He thought the lily pads were probably strong enough to hold a body down.  But he also said he thought someone carrying a body through that would not have gone very far.  He also said he almost lost his shoe in the mud and wondered if Joran had lost his shoe there.  He and his father in law decided they needed more help to clear the area. 
--------------------------

There was never a wide spread search of it that I'm aware of.

After Joran's arrest in Peru, Tim Miller went to Aruba supposedly to search this area using a map that Joran had drawn for Terror Jaap in his confession to him.  The reports were that Tim Miller wasn't allowed to search anywhere by the Aruban authorities.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: texasmom on November 25, 2010, 04:43:48 AM
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Natalee_hjjjk556-1.jpg)

Justice for Natalee...

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Stephany%20Flores/StephanyFlores_takentoosoon-1.jpg)

and Stephany!
 
::MonkeyJustice::



Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: BooMonkey on November 25, 2010, 05:02:08 AM
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!  ::MonkeyKiss::


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: IBE on November 25, 2010, 05:43:27 AM
Can't spell either. Should be HARPPY   two p's for Previous Pages ::monkeywine2:: Here I am with  a V-8.

Maybe if I had something stronger than V8 I could think of a better torture for Joran and for all Aruba. But here's this one:

I'd buy houses next to all of the suspected drivers, batterers, premeditated murderers, murderers, Anita, officials, bartenders, drug suppliers, bad cops, bad judges, bad relatives, bad friends and just bad etc named by the LE in the case list that the Aruba said who were arrested in the killing of Natalee. 

I buy the house with the yard that is upwind from them , so that the Aruban prevailing≈wind is down wind that goes to their home. then I burn as I burned my leaves or trash just when I put in my secret weapon.

Background
that made me remember the secret weapon that I had about starting about 57 years ago. After  a few decades it then wasn't needed by me but lots of girls could still supply this secret weapon as long as life goes on.

I live in a gated mobile home complex. Used to say "Hey, did you smell the skunk last night"? because I had one 1 window open about 2 inches.

No one immediately around me smokes cigarettes  so it must be the skunk down from the large hills in the cemetery.

(trailer to coffin... it just narrows the space some)

 A few weeks ago, One night, the 911 and fire engines came in. We always dread those for it usually means someone we know has died. They were on the next lane, so I got to go over to see if it was one of my friends.

The smell of skunk is what we would call really "thick" now but we are more down wind from the cemetery. Mentioned the skunk is around. One said 'oh no that's  pot for over at that mobile home". Well IMO it smelled worse than skunk. Maybe too cheap or he mixed it with something. Almost smelled like meth.

Very strong. so the next day I complained to the manager (our mobile homes are sometimes less than 6 fee apart here) but this smoker lived about 100 feet away and I am downwind. The manager says he can't do anything about it for the young man has a medical OK for all the pot and gets alot.

Sure glad that Proposition didn't pass. There be that smell day and night! in parking lots, on streets, cars, clothes.

So I decided if the Proposition passed and I was going to be gassed by pot all around me, I would somehow go over to the Post, in the womens' restroom and get some of the secret weapon. Ha Ha it may not be what you think it is. but you have glue 1

OK Secret weapon== Kotex or whatever used these days

Wouldn't smoke them, just burn them like we did our trash in the Midwest. Smells like few degrees below how death smells.

Then my neighbor pot smokers, (more for it would be legal) and I would complain again. Then smoke my own choice (by burning it) they wouldn't like. So we'd have to stop both  MY choice, doesn't hurt me for I don't inhale or even touch my body to it.

Sure smells worse that pot. They'd stop.

That might be a practice run. Actually no practice run needed,
for I can tell you by having a big incinerator on our 1/'2 acre in Indiana with giant trees that have lots and lots of  leaves,  you could smell this Secret Weapon over many acres.

We could bombard Aruba with these weapons.... a Teddy Roosevelt team with Rough Riders  on the ground, on streets, down the AC vents of restaurants, hotels, airports, just hold them, thinking about smoking them while they are lit but don't "smoke" them.

Targets besides the ones listed above:

The new ones (forgot name) come in tubes of cardboard with a string. Put some blood from the food market in there, go, light in front of certain homes of those we all think are involved, plus the entrances, exits of court buildings and the ALE. PO an Airborne Division too.

A new thing to carry around like you were thinking about  smoking it....Nicely wrapped used burning kotexes. The others in cardboard on more ready for action though.  Am sure some on the who helped murder and cover up list. smoke cigs and smoke pot, so we can say we prefer the smell of this. Our smokes pass them in the streets or standing in line for carry out as they smoke.

You know, carrying it with grace, and style , a long  cig holder, with jewels, studs, shells, bones, a holder made from casino chips, a gavel that looks likes Paulus's, 3 Musketeers wrapped cig holder, and on, Anita's art work on some those long sexy cig holders like the actor, actresses in the movies plus a "f-u attitude-wiggle-walk-and -stance.

Maybe even give away samples to the Tourists as the newest fad on the Island. Take one home to remember you trip (those have "Where's Natalee?'printed on them)

Get lots of press about the next best thing to be imported to Aruba before going and when there go to the tourist Organization, OM, saying we are looking to store out in sea a place to house our big logistic ship (heh heh translated means secret places that open to explore for sites and traps and subs to send men in black on shore to explore at night)

Since our product will moving so fast to help your economy (and the North Koran weapons, money laundering, but don't say a word about that) we need huge logistics hubs on land. Workers undercover, wired at work and at play.

 Tourists will love this item as something  found only in Aruba.
They will love to take some home to play tricks on their friends (of course they have to play with them in Aruba too...see Aruba is smelling even more) The economy rises.

Of course we'd have sample packs and freebee to try on the spot.... bottom line is to made Aruba to smell the way she acts.

Secret weapon could be decorated to match clothes, party theme.

We will go away when you give us Natalee.  If you can't or won't do that then tell us who, what, why, where Then you will have you good smelling, happy island back ((cough cough))

I think this secret weapon of mine has not been in the Geneva Accords, not used at Git-mo so we have first shot at it.


PS   Don't to forget to pack Fabreeze our cloths so we smell nice.

We need really good marksmen.. to protect us if needed (but would be undercover). We need good marksmen with grenade training to just happen to be pretending to his the trash container on the street put "accidentally" gets it near on of the suspects... remember these smell so terrible they don't really need to be that close.

Some could be rigged in golf clubs, light, booff, gone to the next green where some who can't decided who the jaw belongs to,for there are so many cultures (races) down there

He could put his cell phone down someone could run up and tapethe Secret Weapon on it. Written on the cone of (can't remember what they are called.. they are inner Kotex) "Note to self... I smell for I didn't call the family first.

a tad of brandy and to sleep

Thinking outside the box of how to get back... not quite there yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on November 25, 2010, 06:04:17 AM
Good morning and Happy Thanksgiving.  My thoughts and prayers are with Natalee and Stephany's familys.  Aruba, what a tangled web you have woven.  There sure are alot of bones washing up in Aruba.  Whose jawbone is it?  Whose fish trap was it that was discovered?  Did it match the stolen one?  Where is Natalee's necklace?  I will never believe a word out of Aruba's mouth until I see a written report that shows the bones were really tested and what the tests said.  Bad Karma J2K and Aruba, that's all I wish for you!  Anita knows.  I hope the truth eats at her night and day.  What goes around comes around and I for one am sick of what they are doing to these familys.