Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

 ::santawink::

i just love the pics of kyron, that brandi has done
and thanks for the smooth ride

I am bringing this from the other thread. I think it is a subject worth talking about. I have copied and pasted.

Quote from: no rose colored glasses on December 18, 2010, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Tracygirl on December 18, 2010, 12:55:55 PM
Quote from: sebastian on December 18, 2010, 12:47:56 PM
Quote from: Tracygirl on December 18, 2010, 12:44:31 PM
Quote from: sebastian on December 18, 2010, 12:30:39 PM
Hi Tracygirl,
I too had read back on all of the news announcements of the Skyline neighborhood online magazine. I was not feeling really great when I saw how many times strangers were asked to come volunteer at the school. It did not occur to me that it could be some kind of cryptic code, just that ANYONE could have come to volunteer and scope out the children and the school.


It all sounds crazy until you realize this is how it works.


It is all just too sickening! The article that I posted about the Lost Boy porno ring that was recently busted up? Well, it was a child porn bulletin board and one of the things listed was a handbook for pedophiles on how to groom their bait. UGH!


Pedo's also talk about the places that have access to children that also have easy access. I am sure they didn't even check id's of people before they walked in the for book fair or those that had free access to the school for one full day! That is very disturbing to me.

I will bet there was no checking of ID's, and I would bet most schools wouldn't have either.


So they have a day that the general public is invited to freely walk inside of a school and have access to pretty much anything.  I wonder if they even have a list of all volunteers that day. This was not sponsered by the school it was sponsored by the church who I also doubt does background checks. One month later a child goes missing....
Even if a pedo didn't grab kyron that day due to this, is any part of this ok? The general public should not ever have free access to inside a school? Who is to say a sick person didn't plant a camera in a bathroom or see pics of the children of the school? what about records that have addresses, emails, phone numbers of the students along with pics? In my opinion it is asking for trouble. The question is, did trouble happen because of this? 
 
 

Fanny thank you for answering my post to you. I just wanted to let you know I read it

I know I should probably wait until the thread change has already happened before posting something many may feel relivent. Next time I will, so I don't have to duplicate posts.
copied and pasted from the previous thread.


This is an interesting posts and Blinks comment from Blinks site. Thought I would bring it over

15.jan says:
December 18, 2010 at 1:53 am
“But if I focus on efforts that do not seem to focus on her (TH) at all- what do we see?
B”

Three sources are relevant to re-visit:
The school, the Historic Church, and the Skyline Ridge Association — all were wide open for intrusion, esp. note summer gathering sign that stated, “Strangers Welcome.”
This bothers me and I even went as far as thinking today that the word “strangers” is a code word for pedophiles.

Perps use code words to attract each other and then go after victims. Why would an organization use the word, “Stranger”; implies to me, “Stranger Danger”.

Could Skyline Ridge Community (including TH) have invited perps into inner-circle of the community? Some online sites had the same problem with the sex trade by users using code words to get in touch with each other. TH had help, who lives(d) in the community, maybe passed off to another accomplice perp?

@ Blink’s response:
December 17, 2010 at 1:04 am
“…get the parents talking about whether they had a creep factor about “who” that day, and any other day…”

There was ample opportunity for a perp to find a way into S-KY School to get the lay of land; see many volunteer public invitations and opportunities listed in S-KY Ridge Newsletter:
1. Join Skyline Group
We’ll meet at Brooks Hill Church across from school at 9 and then spread out over Skyline Neighborhood to pick up litter until 12. If you’d like to volunteer to pick up gathered trash and have a TRUCK please let me know at (snip.) You can also sign up to volunteer at the SOLV website under Skyline Neighborhood Clean Up. Hope to see you there.

2. Logi Trail Group
Logie Trail crew will meet at 18529 NW Logie Trail at 9AM which is BJ’s Richards house. Over a hundred tires have been found down a hill and the Logie Crew is looking for some strong youth that would be willing to climb down the hill and hook up tires to winch lines. They need to be 18 years of age or their parents need to be on site. If you’re interested please call (snip)

3. Used Book Sale at Skyline School
http://www.srnpdx.org/event/used-book-sale-skyline-school

Make a donation of used books (for all ages), or just plan to stop by and shop.
Event dates:
Repeats every day until Thu Apr 22 2010 .
Mon, 04/19/2010 (All day)
Tue, 04/20/2010 (All day)
Wed, 04/21/2010 (All day)
Thu, 04/22/2010 (All day)

April 19-22, 2010 – 8:30 a.m. – 3:30 p.m.: Skyline School Used Book Sale. This school fundraiser is a great place to recycle old books ….Drop books off at school during regular school hours from now to April 16. Open Tuesday until 5 p.m. Thursday…

4. What about all the April City involvement in Neighborhood? That Mayor tweet still seems bizarre.
Starting in early April, City of Portland plans to target garlic mustard on roadside rights-of way using glyphosate (Round-up). If you are a landowner with garlic mustard on your property, a number of local agencies may be able to assist you…:
http://www.srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR0410_color.pd

5. Note S-KY tasks on 5/2/10.
http://www.srnpdx.org/newsline-april-23-2010

Sunset Presbyterian Church (SPC) will be sending volunteers to Skyline on 5/2/10 to work on a variety of LANDSCAPING projects, filling holes and adding gravel near the track, painting classrooms, completely cleaning out and re-organizing the bus barn, among other projects. SPC has asked M and B Schweinfurth to help organize event and to enlist help of other Skyline parents and members of Skyline community….email (snip) or call (snip) to let us know whether you would be available to help us with these projects on 5/2/10. Skyline middle school students can earn volunteer hours by helping out.

And then connect some dots:

Look at SPC Volunteer link photo:
http://www.sunsetpres.org/content.cfm?id=2089
8 boys, 2 with glasses, about Ky’s age with one man, coincidence?

The S-KY community has seen this perp.

Town Hall format, private to parents, with security support is overdue. Families are afraid to speak up; they need help connecting dots with each other, however wild and wooly. Everyone bring discs, videos, photos with fresh eyes, who knows whom, what’s lurking in the background. Something may trigger a “oh, yeah, now I remember seeing something that day…”

Past S-KYline events show white trucks, for example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skylineridge/4954646764/

One poster mentioned a small child could be carried in a big guitar case:
See photo on Skyline Ridge Neighbors Newsletter:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skylineridge/4158367643/in/dateposted/

Or look at JK’s Aloha United Methodist church FB page with boy (Colston) leaning on Pastor Brett. Doesn’t look right.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=543363867740&set=o.134514135052

Perp maybe threatened TH that Kiara would go same fate if she talks; at least Kiara is alive and well with Kaine, even if she can’t see her.

I bet suspect zero was at S-KY school both months before and only shortly after the incident.

This is an excellent compilation of events, that imo, locals should be accessing their memory banks for any odd incidents or familiar faces that also were at the Science Fair June 6th.

I whole-heartedly agree with your last statement, but wish to ask, what are you basing it on?
B

 
 
 

Thanks! I hoped you would.

thanks TG, its saying about the same thing i was saying

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9000.msg1277940#msg1277940
back to the "snatch and go" theory, to me that would mean there is prob an unknown S.O.among the
community that is part of the school/parents friend,teachers friend,
as ive never read anywhere, that the people there that day, were concerned about a stranger,
and im just guessing, everyone on the list had a reason  to be there
as LE would know about a person that had no reason to be there, maybe this is why
the school community is so tight lipped, maybe they are wondering and having
some suspicions now too even after 6 months

i agree, the teachers behaviour is odd, in fact the whole of the case is odd
you have a kid, that is not prone to wandering off, especially that day, yet
for some reason the LE did, ive often wondered where they got that idea
then you have a not yet named suspect, and her timeline is so tight, its hard to
see harming disposing, passing off, ect.in that timeline and that just makes it
more odd

Tracy's post from closed thread. 
(So they have a day that the general public is invited to freely walk inside of a school and have access to pretty much anything.  I wonder if they even have a list of all volunteers that day. This was not sponsered by the school it was sponsored by the church who I also doubt does background checks. One month later a child goes missing....
Even if a pedo didn't grab kyron that day due to this, is any part of this ok? The general public should not ever have free access to inside a school? Who is to say a sick person didn't plant a camera in a bathroom or see pics of the children of the school? what about records that have addresses, emails, phone numbers of the students along with pics? In my opinion it is asking for trouble. The question is, did trouble happen because of this? )   The possibilities of what can all be done just like you have posted is overwhelming. Also, who knows what a sick person is doing when they look at FB pics as well. Endless

since learning of TH sexting and supposed lifestyle, wonder if she was doing the deed
that 11/2 hr thats unaccounted for, i know she had the baby, but i really dont think
that would matter to her,she was sexting and kyron is missing
not a TH supporter just trying to fig why she looked so guilty in the first fam interview
i know she prob looks guilty BC she did something to kyron, just saying

I have wondered that myself, whether she had met up with someone for just that purpose.

about the odd behavior im talking about here
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.msg1277962#msg1277962

is from robs post here, sorry i had forgot we changed threads
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9000.msg1277833#msg1277833

Thank-you

 ::HelloKitty::

wow. what a world we live in.  In my community we celebrate volunteers for all kinds of endeavors.  We have to.  There is not enough money to pay people to do the things that need to be done.

Are taxpayers going to pony up the money to do the things that need to be done in schools?  All the free labor that was given that day to skyline school?

We might as well live as in the former Soviet Union with armed guards everywhere and concertina wire around everything and suspicion of every person that exists. 

That does not mean that I don't think we should be careful and prudent, but what kind of world is that where we can't even invite volunteers to help with things in the community without people thinking that it is code words . 

Hi Cw618
Whatever Terri was doing during her unaccounted time, I think she had purchased something from the store to put Kiara to sleep.

I am of the opinion if it's an SO perp, than they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity, but have never been caught. IIRC some statistics show an offender will molest ~150-200 times before they are caught. Sadly some are never caught as children don't always tell, boys more so than girls as it's a homophobia type issue mixed in with feelings of what did I do wrong etc, threats to harm the child's family etc (according to my son's therapist and rape counselor-not me), these are sometimes very powerful motivators to keep a child quiet and they work quite well ::MonkeyMad::

Of course I am not stuck on one theory and mine are subject to change, more often in this case than any others I have ever followed.

O/T~I am considering going to the memorial in Mobile for Natalie and Jonathan Deblase....I am crazy?? I feel like we at SM and so many others love these kids so much more than their own family (not this particular case, but Zahra, Caylee and Jon and Natallie among hundreds of others) and I feel like someone should be there and show respect for the lives the children lived. I am afraid I would prolly cry like a baby the whole time though..

Hi HelloKitty,
I personally think that if the volunteers were coming to the school AFTER school, that was not a huge problem. If the volunteers were coming DURING school hours, with children present, that is a HUGE problem. I am very very lucky. My daughters middle school is completely locked. In order to get on school grounds you have to go through the office and then try to get passed the diligent ladies who work there. You cannot take your child off campus without signing your child out, in said office. In the mornings and afternoons there is a teacher or two who stand outside and watch the comings and goings of children being picked up and dropped off. I could NEVER EVER imagine that my daughters school would allow UNKNOWN volunteers to wander around campus while my child was there. Again, I am VERY lucky. I would have a fit if was any other way.

IslandMonkey,
You are such a sweetheart! I think it would be so nice of you to attend! I wish I was there and I would go with you. I am hoping to be there in the Spring!

::MonkeyEek:: I have a friend who is 70+ yrs old and when he found out about my son when he was abused I told him about he psychologist telling me "he's full of shame and a 3 yr old can't be taught shame" (he was speaking of those that try to win a custody battle by having their kids lie about abuse), anyway he stopped in his tracks and his eyes filled with tears, he said he's exactly right and told me of his story, he was at church in the bathroom washing his hands when he was 8 yrs old and a man took his pants down, exited a stall and came after him, he opened the window and jumped out, and 62+ yrs later he told me about it, and he also told me that he felt so ashamed, and dirty that he never told a soul until that day. Sad, because that man probably went on to molest dozens or hundreds more children and thank God this perp couldn't catch my friend since his pants were around his ankles and he couldn't run as fast.

The list that was sent around. Six months later, what are they looking for ?
What I read into it is : Here are the people who we think were there.
My mind says :
There is someone on this list who says they were not at the school that day, but we have a conflict as someone says they were.
.......
Didn't one of the kids ( I know which kid ) say that the substiture was there and the kid was corrected as the sub wasn't working that day ? Let's face it, they don't know who was there for sure. Not going to single out the sub, but any persons who were employed by the school, they could say, look at the pay records, I wasn't there. But they were. If the chaos worked for Terri as some say to do this when she was doing her premeditation, it works just as well for a perv / perp.
......
LE must have run this list against their databases and maybe they have come up with some hits for a prev child porn incident. Doesn't have to be in OR, could be in a previous place of residence.
There are alot of persons on that list.
Maybe that's what they wish they didn't know.     
..
As far as Terri and the LDT, we don't know what q's were asked tht she was deceptive on.
It would have made LE take a really hard look at her. I hope that it wasn't to the exclusion of all else. I am not convinced that she did it, but she could have.

.....
Say Ky and Terri are finished for the day, he says, I forgot to bring in the xxx, that he needed for later in the day, they go to the truck, they get in the truck to get it, he forgot it at home. He wants to go home to get it, she snaps and lays him out cold. 
..
For me,  I am trying to go down both paths. We don't have alot of facts and I don't like MCSD. I do not like that they gave him the sexting texts to Kaine and then he used them in his divorce. Yet, they won't release other things as it is part of an on going investigation. Never heard of this stuff before from LE.

Thank you......it's not even being sweet, I just am so mad at those damn animals and think the kids desrve ppl there that love them ::MonkeyAngel:: but I get so emotional about children and abuse I know I will be a basketcase, but I also know Mobile is just one hr away, all interstate and I think I can do it, it was a gut instinct as soon as I heard about the memorial being so close.

When you get down here look me up, I'll be the bum on the beach with a bball cap on and a beer in my hand ::MonkeyBike::  LOL, ok......that's actually everyone here so let me know ::MonkeyHaHa::

I think volunteers are fine if they have been screened and are NEVER allowed to be alone with a child. 

Was the work day at Skyline on a school day or a weekend?  I wouldn't think you could get many people on a work day.

Unfortunately, unless the person is you yourself, there is no way on earth to know who is an OK person or not.  All the background checks in the world won't catch a perv the first time. 

Do you never allow your children to go to someone else's home to play with a friend?  Too much Mom will make your kids rebel and do things on the sly.  It's an ugly world out there,

I always laugh when people say that there children would never whatever.  Keep too tight of a rein on them and they will go wild on you.  I have seen it with parents who think they have control

It's a hard world after all.

That is good point, maybe some benadryl........since I don't think she left with Ky, I think she would have had to meet up with whomever did and Kiara being asleep would make sense in this scenario.

I'm all for volunteers, we need them, and need more of them. I understand what some of the ladies are saying about volunteers being around the school kids and not really knowing anything about them. I am so glad that my two daughter's are grown, almost all the things we talk about and fears, I just didn't have any of them. Perhaps I was just stupid and naive, just some of this never entered my mind.

Me too Kat~seems like your thinking the same way I am, she could have but I can't exclude other possibilities due to everything you just posted.

BBM~IIRC I believe TracyGirl thought this way back in the beginning (sorry if it wasn't you TG or it could have even been a diff case), but it seems someone had a dream of that exact scenario and Terri snaps, blamed him and killed him.

If I wanted to volunteer at any school here to work with the kids, like they have a program where retired ex teachers assist slow readers, I would have to have a background check thru our child abuse registry.

When this was first talked about I didn't either, then I realized it would give a person ample opportunity to scope out the school and make them familiar with the school if they were not already. They would know where the exits are, the bathrooms, off limit areas...then there is the consideration to private information of the children that can be accessed. All of that without the eyes of really anyone watching you. It is concerning to me.

that's what i meant, just didnt say it as concise as you
thanks

TG~did you read Kat_Gram's detailed post on the last page......was it you or someone else that had a dream about Kyron forgetting something at home, Terri taking him back to the house and snapping? Maybe I am crazy, but I know someone posted that way back.

LOL~I am rarely consise but good to know someone thinks I am. That has always bothered me since I know too many SO's aren't caught, and then it is incumbent on THEM to register, grrrrr. Of course if they are found, they get a slap on the wrist most of the time, but we have 100,000+ missing SO's already, obviously the system is NOT working IMO

Yep I did have a dream like that. Kyron had forgotten his lunch, terri got upset and killed him in their kitchen by strangling him ...It was an awful dream! I also had another one that Kyron walked into a room I was in and me and a bunch of other woman (my fellow monkeys?) were sitting there talking. I felt someone walk up to me and I see Kyron standing next to me. I say to him, "Kyron where have you been we all have been looking for you" He said he was fine....That one I woke up crying.

that is a good thought. maybe she was meeting someone and wanted the baby either asleep or quiet. I really do think it is possible she was having an affair.

I think so much of our fears are based on our experiences. I started attending vigils for Amber Dubois and got very close to her mother. I saw up close and personal what can happen. Has that made me paranoid? HECK YES! With regards to my child going to others homes, sometimes we cannot be diligent enough. My daughter plays at a friends house who lives on a very small street with a few houses. I have met both of her parents and they seem like very nice people. A few days ago I was looking up sex offenders in the Portland area and my daughter asked me to show her the sex offenders in our area again as it has been a couple of months since we have looked. Low and behold my daughter about flipped her lid. One of the sex offenders on the list, lives on the small little road where she plays. My daughter told me that he walked past them and winked and smiled and had 2 CHILDREN

I think this is more then possible. I am not sure if it holds true, but the list of people they put out, could it be they are trying to find evidence on someone in order to request a search order? I would think LE cannot just go to court and ask to search everyones computer or house that was there that day. They  would need a reason other then the person being there that day? Or perhaps that would be the reason? ugh, I am not making sense I think. My thoughts are coming together. 

with him. Then my daughter looked up his address on google and saw that he has a kiddie pool in his backyard. We will be calling LE first thing on Monday. You have to inform your children and be as diligent as you can without making them neurotic messes. It is a very hard balancing act.

I am also amazed at how much child porn and pedo rings are out there.
Our volunterr bureau, we knew the lady who had to run the background checks, she was also amazed at how many ex offenders knew that the check would be done, yet they would still try it. Apply to do good for a good program for kids. Always want to be close to the cookie jar. What an ugly world we live in.
...
Many of the cases like Tori Stafford, Sandra Cantu, Elizabeth Smart  have come to such strange and starling criminal cases, so until they arrest someone,I want to keep an open mind. And try to not come to any conclusions. Most of the things we think we know about Terri have come from Kaine. He is trying to get a divorce from her, keep Kiara, protect his assets, find Kyron, work, look after Kiara, how emotionally balanced could anyone be in the circumstances he is in ? Same for Desiree, must be in emotional hell most of the time.
..
I am not a Terri supporter. I do go the the FB pages every few weeks or so, but don't post or like anything the FB peeps do in htis case.

OMG Sebastian that is scary!

Why do they allow these freaks in the same area's our children are in! Put them on an island and let them fend for themselves!

island i was just about to ask if you meant, friends fam may be suspicious and aren't saying anything
islandmonkey statement
they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity

TG thats a great idea, very well could be,and LE is maybe trying to be coyslick and not alert who?

Kiddie pool ? A kid magnet. He's got his own cookie jar. His kids friends aren't safe.
...........
 

WRT the SO's near you and checking them with your daughter, I completely understand but they have to know sadly. We had one move to the Island and the school sent out his flyer and we are such a tight knit community he ended up getting the he77 out ASAP. I guess he didn't appreciate the fact that every day a different group of parents walked his street with a camera, and handed out the flyers to anyone and everyone (even though they obviously had them from the previsou groups and the school), and we had a little group that would watch him from their homes and if he so much as got in the car and pulled out, we knew the time and when he arrived back. Plus, the toll bridge which is the only way on take your photo every time you arrive and leave and it's time stamped so he was not only being watched by the Island big brother, but the community in whole. Turned out he had child porn on his puter and is now scheduled to go to court next month, but he's gone from here. Plus, I looked up the owners of the residence and emailed them his record and flyer, they were mortified and wanted to kick him out then and there, but had no cause, they did promise to never renew the lease, and do background checks from now on, but he moved inland even though he still had his addy here (typical SO), but he is a gone and hopefully after his trial he'll be gone for good. ::MonkeyTongue:: We didn't really harass him, but if we did make it extremely uncomfortable ::MonkeyWink:: and if we had harrassed him, LE wouldn't care as they pulled him every time he didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign or for any reason possible......I told you they are bored to tears here, but also despise pedo's.

Very possible about the SW, although this case has my mind so discombobulated I doubt I even make sense anymore. ::MonkeyNoNo::

You are so right, you sure don't want to make neurotic messes out of the kids, but at the same time you have to inform your kids and make them aware of things, that frankly nobody really wants to talk about  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I have a gut feeling that someone, somewhere is feeling a lot of pressure right now. The blogs are getting super nasty. Especially on facebook. Here is one of many

Brandy Carey I think it's great that Terri has such fine and upstanding people to support her in her time of need.Hopefully when Terri is arrested and this goes to trial,all of the supporters will show up as character witnesses.I mean,wouldn't you just love to have a stripper,bondage queen,someone that admitted to masturbating as a... neighbor's house burned and masturbating at her Pap's funeral,and not to mention the psycho blog writer that has a criminal record for harassment and who knows what,as a supporter?After all, we are known for the company we keep,birds of a feather,yada,yada,yada.Yes ,Terri must be so proud to have such people as friends and supporters

I really am starting to believe that there are those for and against Terri that personally know one another.

LE would have to have some sort of probable casue to go any of these persons homes to search. If they have a perv / pedo who says he wasn't there and someone says he was, that could be a reason. By now, they have spoken to the persons on the list and the minor children.

I am not sure if it is illegal or not, but could sebastian put a flyer up on the street corner with the mans pic?

Not necessarily but that is a good thought too, I just know pedos come in every variety, those that look like a pedo, bankers, lawyers etc., heck the one that tried living here was a wealthy oil executive with patents everywhere, so it's possible it could be someone they know, but don't know is an SO, just an SO that hasn't been caught....or pedos are always trying to insert themselves into any position that allows them to be around kids, so I could see how it could be someone at the school, contracted thru PPS to work there and so on.

I am unsure about law in CA, but in FL the DA told me I could put the flyer ANYWHERE as this creep also was into 18-20yr old girls who are vunerable and he was drugging them with rufies, so I told my daughter who worked at a restaurant and the DA told me to post the flyer at the restaurant, and low and behold he came in (course I had already showed my daughter the flyer), and she started quizzing him ::MonkeyEek:: Nothing overt, but more like "hey, you look familiar-do you live on the Island......really, WHERE (obviously she knew since we had been by his house) and then she'd say, NO that's not it, but you look so familiar for some reason". He also never went back to Waffle House and my daughter warned everyone.

The only thing the DA told me I couldn't do was alter the flyer......I knew about the child porn adn so did the school as soon as I found it, but I couldn't attach that to the flyer. But the group of parents surely knew and when they put his flyer on mailboxes and knocked on doors daily, they'd tell anyone that they hadn't personally spoke to about the charge he had now, so technically there was nothing illegal, the flyer was NOT altered, but word of mouth can be just as intimidating. So I suggest she check with the DA like I did, and they will give you direction on what you can and can't do.

i dont think there is an uninhabited island big enough

I wasn't sure if anyone could make sense out of my post!

i would think you could on your property, there was a hooker that was turning tricks in the alley behind my house
i took the plate #s down and posted a sign with them asking if it was theirs and that i turned it in to LE, low and
behold, the trick traffic stopped in like 2wks of posting the sign, and LE couldnt do anything about the sign

Fine then just through them into the ocean with a 1/2 blown floaty! I don't think there is a group of people I hate more on the face of this planet then a pedophile.

shark food works for me  ::MonkeyDance::

::rhino:: ::rhino:: Toss some chum on them too before the let them go....I am totally good with that ::MonkeyCool::

Question to anyone not as drain bamaged as I am at this point, did the profile posted from BOC come from Blink or FBI?

TIA ::MonkeyKiss::

If we only ran the world....How many children are going to be hurt or killed before the powers that be decide to keep them away from children? Certain cases will always stay with me such as beautiful little Sandra Cantu who was skipping down a street just minutes before she was taken. She was the picture of childhood innocence. Why does Sandra lay in a casket as her murderer is being protected for the next 50 years? It makes me want to vomit and scream so loudly. I hate it, I just hate it it is beyond logical and beyond fair. Will we someday be saying the same about this sweet little boy with the humongous blue eyes and great big smile? It is just such a horrible world sometimes. 

Maybe it is time for a reality check .. even as today, Skyline K8 allows people to volunteer without b/g checks.  This includes normal school hours for as as long as they are not alone with children.  On the other hand all events where all parents are invited to the school are canceled.

hmmm I believe a combination of both? Do you mind bringing it over here?

I

This is the thought of a lot of school but what they don't consider is they are allowing for a person with dangerous intentions access to the child. They are turning what would be a stranger, into a person they know. This was one of the points I had with my school district. It is now changed to include all volunteers who enter a classroom or work at the school.

Are you serious Neighbor? Unreal!

Wait Neighbor hold the phone! You are in that area right? The school has canceled all events that parents attend? what is the reason for that? hmm interesting.

::MonkeyDevil:: LOL~Why do you think I asked tee he he....ok, I'll take my feeble mind and go look. Also, dis you see my longgg post about what can adn can't be done in FL in regards to the SO? Of course, again FL's laws could be different, but when you have a flyer posted every 12 feet, it is more effective.

THUD........ok, that piques my interest, I will be trying to call my friend from Eugene with family in Portland ::MonkeyEek::

I am afraid it is

 ::HelloKitty::

Marybeth Shafer (Schaeffer) However she spells it or whomever she is  wrote this months ago on the Terri Support page on FB.  She was an admin on that page.  Those are her own words.  No one else's.  She wrote about the masturbation about her own-self. I read it myself.

Nancy Sewell who is 42nd State and alternative theories blog does have a record for harassment.  And SL, an admin on the Terri suport page had a stint as a bondage person.

I don't get that at all.

 ::HelloKitty::

I cannot believe in this day and age that every place that has children doesn't do background checks.  I know in my community this has been expected for years and I mean at least 15 years.

But it doesn't stop the pervs for sure, does it.  because they have to be caught one time first.

 ::MonkeyShocked:: WTH is in the water in that region? I don't mean to sound harsh, but think off all the serial killers, my friend I spoke abou that lived in Eugene and Portland lived there when Ted Bundy was there, her mother made her cut her long brunette hair and highlight it (likely I would have asked my daughter to do the same), I guess I should ask are these peeps from that region?

I am very close to the school, but I should have used the word "missing" instead of "canceled".  Traditional events during the school year were never scheduled.  The only event was a "no, go, yell, tell" class in the evening.  Pumking carving traditionally was at school, but this year it was hosted at a farm on SI.  Also the Christmas carols were notably absent this year.

If someone wants to commit a crime, you can have security, background checks, whatever, that is not going to prevent some people from doing what they want, and commit a crime.

That is really too bad about the Christmas program, many kids and parents enjoy that.

Does anyone know if Terri knows these people who are running the FB sites and blogs?

Not all placed do because there are loop holes in everything. It is so irresponsible it makes my head spin!

Neither can I.....

Exactly~ther is always a first, but it's better than the alternative.....my son's current school isn't locked down like his last one was in TN, kinda like Sebastian's child's school. I guess there is no way to lock it down since it is an "outside school", but our community hs no pervs on the Island that are registered  and the teachers, principal only have 1 grade of about 25 kids K-5 so it's not as huge school, but without parent volunteers it wouldn't work, it's a charter school and so dependent on parent volunteers and donations since we don't get the funding. Even LE donates as they are parked in front of it twice a day, 2 cars for the kids who walk, bike or skate and the Fire Dept helps out too, but they are so close the kids could spit on the fire house, so I guess we have so many odd layers here vs previous schools and in odd I don't mean bad, I guess I should say unusual from my experience.

That is very interesting and could tell me they are not quite sure about a parent or two but what could they really do? They can't uninvite somebody based on a thought.

Your right, it is sad.

Sorry I thought you had it already. I can try to find it and post.

I get it, still interesting and I am glad to hear about the NO GO YELL TELL class, all kids should be armed in knowledge and trust gut instincts. It's so sad we have to balance arming our kids without scaring the he77 out of them, when I grew up my parents never thought anything about us going to school and being snatched and we played outside and roamed until dark. Wow, I long for the days for my kids but not going to happen......

We just had our Christmas program about 2 weeks ago and Thursday we had Christmas breakfast with our kids, and we had the prof of marine biology that teaches our kids on his off days from UWF there, and a few other special guest. I can't imagine having nothing, but if I thought it gave one more kid a fighting chance, I say go for it.

Hi HelloKitty,
OMG! Marybeth sounds like she is in desperate need of some therapy. It is starting to make some sense to me now. I kept wondering why these women were so illiterate and just plain mean when there is a missing child. To be fair, there has been nasty things said from both sides, but the TH supporters really hit below the belt on their facebook site. I truly believe that BOTH Kaine and Terri have some ugly skeletons which is why I think that this case has been so dang nasty. Nancy Sewell has been alluding to a K-Y blog for a while now, which stands for Kaine Lies. She has posted its website on the Kaine Horman Reality Show on facebook FINALLY. The catch, you have to DONATE to her Alternate Theories site to see it. Are you kidding me?

Background checks should be absolutely done on volunteers at school. I am all for it. It may weed out some of the "bad apples." It may not catch all of them, but it is better than nothing. I am sure many of the parents wouldn't volunteer for anything because they had an embarrassing record, such as a bad check charge at one time or something of that nature.

All this talk about volunteers being under suspicion reminds me of the searchers for TES. Volunteer, and you are drug into a murder case. If you happened to be there that day and your name is on the list, you may be discussed on the blogs and threads, innocent or not. I have a feeling it throws ice water on others that want to volunteer. Not that I don't think there should be a discussion. Some would just hate to have been there that day and their personal life was discussed and their background was put out there. Just sayin'.  I realize we are talking about a little boy being missing or worse. So I do believe everything possible should be done. I am just saying that most of us would just be glad it wasn't us there that day and see our names and family's being posted on the list being made public. It's a conundrum.  JMO

Is this the profile you were talking about IM?

“I think suspect zero in this case has a description, but that’s it. I pray I am wrong.
B
**It is a commonly used investigative term when there is no suspect but a profile.
B

**
Blink, can you please share suspect zero’s description/profile with us?
Prayers for Kyron

Opportunist Sexual Predator Pedophile- Highly organized offender, serial.
No kids of his own, possible divorce.

Possibly dated someone with kids in the area.

Skills or resources to go underground quickly and for sustained periods of time.

Able to function undetected in the community, but familiar enough to fit in.

No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills

Has had access to Skyline prior to 6/4/10 possibly through work, which I would guess is construction/electric/plumbing related.

Before you ask, yes, I believe Kyron ran into him in the “Cool Electric” Science Fair displays.

I have no idea how he might be connected to TH or RS, and neither does MCSO or they would have a suspect.

If he is profiling low risk kids (in his opinion) it would be his MO to have been around his victims and have a level of understanding of their family dynamic. In other words, he has assessed in advance

Imo, that is the missing link. I believe they have a physical description of him, thus the facial recognition portion of the cameras and the statement it was an isolated incident. That is the only way that statement does not sound irresponsible to me.

He will set off some people’s “satellites”, but with no obvious justification.

 ::MonkeyTongue:: I think........LOL, I told you my brain was mush. It seemd longer when I first saw it, but it read that way yes. ::MonkeyShovel::

It is great they had the class but if the school believes Kyron went with his step mother, and it is not a snatch and go "event" then why would they have the class? Why would they not have the usual yearly events they have had in previous years? Am I thinking of this wrong?

hi neighbor, so what about basketb,footb and other activities, and did the school pass mail out a formal announcement of
this decision
 ,

ISLALND, Blonde posted this one. Is this the one you were talking about?



Posts: 2265





   
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #37 12/5/10 -
« Reply #938 on: December 18, 2010, 10:26:31 AM »
Quote from: Blonde on December 17, 2010, 04:38:30 PM
Pedophiles Can Be Anyone:
Pedophiles can be anyone -- old or young, rich or poor, educated or uneducated, non-professional or professional, and of any race. However, pedophiles often demonstrate similar characteristics, but these are merely indicators and it should not be assumed that individuals with these characteristics are pedophiles. But knowledge of these characteristics coupled with questionable behavior can be used as an alert that someone may be a pedophile.


Characteristics of a Pedophile :
Often the pedophile is male and over 30 years of age.
Single or with few friends in his age group.
If married, the relationship is more "companion" based with no sexual relations.
He is often vague about time gaps in employment which may indicate a loss in employment for questionable reasons or possible past incarceration.
Pedophiles Like Child-like Activities:
He is often fascinated with children and child activities appearing to prefer those activities to adult oriented activities.
He will often refer to children in pure or angelic terms using descriptives like innocent, heavenly, divine, pure, and other words that describe children but seem inappropriate and exaggerated.
He has hobbies that are child-like such as collecting popular expensive toys, keeping reptiles or exotic pets, or building plane and car models.
Pedophiles Often Prefer Children Close to Puberty:
Pedophiles often have a specific age of child they target. Some prefer younger children, some older.
Often his environment or a special room will be decorated in child-like decor and will appeal to the age and sex of the child he is trying to entice.
Many pedophiles often prefer children close to puberty who are sexually inexperienced, but curious about sex.
Pedophiles Work Around Children:
The pedophile will often be employed in a position that involves daily contact with children. If not employed, he will put himself in a position to do volunteer work with children, often in a supervisory capacity such as sports coaching, contact sport instruction, unsupervised tutoring or a position where he has the opportunity to spend unsupervised time with a child.
The Target Child:
The pedophile often seeks out shy, handicapped, and withdrawn children, or those who come from troubled homes or under privileged homes. He then showers them with attention, gifts, taunting them with trips to desirable places like amusement parks, zoo's, concerts, the beach and other such places.
Manipulation of the Innocent:
Pedophiles work to master their manipulative skills and often unleash them on troubled children by first becoming their friend, building the the child's self esteem. They may refer to the child as special or mature, appealing to their need to be heard and understood then entice them with adult type activities that are often sexual in content such as x-rated movies or pictures. They offer them alcohol or drugs to hamper their ability to resist activities or recall events that occurred.
Stockholm Syndrome :
It is not unusual for the child to develop feelings for the predator and desire their approval and continued acceptance. They will compromise their innate ability to decipher good and bad behavior, ultimately justifying the criminal's bad behavior out of sympathy and concern for the adults welfare. This is often compared to Stockholm Syndrome - when victims become attached emotionally to their captors.
The Single Parent:
Many times pedophiles will develop a close relationship with a single parent in order to get close to their children. Once inside the home, they have many opportunities to manipulate the children -- using guilt, fear, and love to confuse the child. If the child's parent works, it offers the pedophile the private time needed to abuse the child.
Fighting Back:
Pedophiles work hard at stalking their targets and will patiently work to develop relationships with them. It is not uncommon for them to be developing a long list of potential victims at any one time. Many of them believe that what they are doing is not wrong and that having sex with a child is actually "healthy" for the child.

Almost all pedophiles have a collection of pronography, which they protect at all costs. Many of them also collect "souvenirs" from their victims. They rarely discard either their porn or collections for any reason.

One factor that works against the pedophile is that eventually the children will grow up and recall the events that occurred. Often pedophiles are not brought to justice until such time occurs and victims are angered by being victimized and want to protect other children from the same consequences.

Laws such as Megan's Law - a federal law passed in 1996 that authorizes local law enforcement agencies to notify the public about convicted sex offenders living, working or visiting their communities, have helped expose the pedophile and allows parents to better protect their children.
IMO it's like their JOB and they are dam good at looking for that one second no one is looking
http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9000.920

her posts was longer because she included a personal story that I didn't copy due to it not really being a part of the profile although interesting!
What are your thoughts on this profile?

::rhino:: ::rhino::

It is sad, but ITA that all volunteers. I just know sick SO's do try to be around kids, and so many have never been caught so it doesn't ever catch all, but I still prefer it over no check. I guess my issue is 500+ ppl were there, and I am not sure if that's maintenance, trash p/u etc., so it leaves it leave open so many possibilities, although my I have 2 theories, I sure would like to weed one out

No, but that one is SPOT ON isn't it????? I was talking about the specific profile for this perp, and wondering if it was Blinks or the FBI's. How are you Ms Fanny and did you see the memorial for Natalie and Jonathon is going to be in Mobile ::MonkeyAngel::

A school must be like Disneyland to these freaks. Kids of all ages being told to listen and do what an adult tells them. It is like hitting the jackpot! How easy it must be to gain entry to a school. Just volunteer and be good, gain the trust of children, ask a few questions here and there and they can learn just about anything about them from home life, to sports they play. 

Yes ISLAND, I did. If I still was there I would go with you.  BTW, the memorial is going to be in the same chapel my mother's burial service was done. She is buried in that cemetery there along with my daddy.  ::MonkeyAngel::

neighbor, is it your feeling opinion, that the school or the parents or a combo of, figured out maybe there is another perp besides TH
is why the programs are missing and not scheduled, and island see if your connections in port think the same way

This is a comment blink made to a poster on her site. Thought it was an interesting take on things.

My thanks Tori and welcome.

Excellent question. No, just because I classify suspect zero as an opportunist does not mean this was not premeditated, in fact, I absolutely think it was.

I envision “zero” walking the halls when he thinks nobody is paying attention and counting the steps from classroom to door, to steps to bathroom and stopping and restarting his stop watch. He has watched each teacher, each classroom, and knows how to get in and out of every entrance and exit. The Science Fair, open to all, provided him the opportunity.

Wrt to changing directions, etc, in our work, and as I have been taught, and try to teach, the number one thing you MUST be willing to do as an investigative analyst is to be willing to scrap your whole case and start over, without angst.
The second you have something which conflicts or challenges or changes the scope of your investigation you must adapt without ownership of your previous work or you will be investigation to PROVE you were right. That is not investigation that is research. Big difference.

I cannot tell you how many times we have had to do that after hundreds of hours of work, that is the nature of the beast.

The second I become closed off to reasonable non-excludable theory, I am dead in the water.

B

Thank-you, so I'm assuming that after all this time, Blink and the others that investigate with her, now believe that a pedophile took Kyron? From all the different posts on here from her site recently that is what it sure seems like.

Get a load of this! copied from Blinks.


chefjagcc says:
December 18, 2010 at 12:48 pm
I was reluctant to post this information before, based on my understanding that this was not random. With new information, including the sz new profile i feel i should share. I live approximatly 1 hour away from Skyline Elementary. Her school is surrounded by woods much like Skyline. About 2 weeks ago my 2nd grader came home with a note in her backpack. It was from the principal and stated that all children had been kept in from recess because someone observed a man in the trees watching children play. All children were brought in and police notified. A search came up empty. I have not heard if the man was found or if he has returned. It just seems spooky and somewhat similar. If i hear more i will post it. Blink, if you or your researchers like, i could privatly post the name of the school and the principal.

Please do. Just mark the first line as private.
Kudos to the school for their actions after being alerted.
B

I believe she is open to that idea as well as Terri working with a pedo

Ok, thanks ::MonkeyAngel:: I tend to agree, but then again I am not an FBI profiler......just feel something is off and always has been, and more than just Terri IMO

What are your thoughts on this profile?  BBM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.msg1278077#msg1278077

Possibly dated someone with kids in the area.

maybe know someone in the area with kids and is introduced to others
with kids, and one of those kids fits his type
----------
to function undetected in the community, but familiar enough to fit in.

travels for his job, unnoticed
--------
No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills

intel is in the area, and techs travel
-------
my Q is were there electronic displays as well as electric displays 6/4/10

Sorry to be O/T....but WOW, that makes me feel like there was a reason for that chapel to have been picked. I am still scared to go since I will bawl, but knew when I heard it, I needed to for some reason. One of those "I can't explain" feeling if you know what I mean.

How disturbing, and again all that woods, and who knows who is lurking in the woods? So Blink is open to a pedophile taking Kyron or Terri working with a pedophile. Oh and I agree something has been off on this from the beginning.

Again, it's the net and anyone can say anything they choose, but I don't see this as far fetched by any stretch...the entire school gave me the creeps, the high grass/weeds by one set of steps for one reason, I'd be worrid about snakes it was so high but it also could provide cover. I am sure Blink will try to vet, and a note going home should be somewhat easy to find out about (unless LE asked them not to tell), I sure wish my friend from that area had friends who had younger kids. So much easier since they are more aware/alert to everything, I am still going to ask her about a few of the topics we discussed the past few days and see what she can find out (when I find her of course ::MonkeyTongue:: )

Hi Cw,  It could also be this 'suspect zero' had a child at Skyline.  It would fit Blink's theory.

I often thought Terri took that photo of Kyron and his project purposefully with the man and little girl in the background to cast dispersions elsewhere if LE ever started looking at her.  It does create doubt, especially when she later mentions the last she saw Kyron he was with some odd man and a couple of children.

I do agree with some here there is also the possibility Terri knew a pedo {even if he had never been caught before}, and used this person to full advantage in carrying out her plan to rid Kyron from her life.  There are just too many quirky things we've read about her including Kyron's pleading to stay with Desiree. 

And that first Presser.  I often reflect on the guilty look she had on her face.  It was like 'Who, me?  Gulp' and she wanted to disappear.  IMO

Let me put one of your concerns at ease. In this part of Oregon we don't have any poisonous snakes. I am terrified of snakes but at least if they bite we won't die. I won't move anywhere else because of this.  Silly I know but true.

I read and read this forum and BOC and I'm just amazed at what everyone is able to come up with as far as theories. I had one in the beginning but everyone pretty much said no way that happened so dropped it.

I have dealt with pedos all my life and they are truly the scum of the earth. So is the South Pole an Island? We could gather them all up and send them there. They could figure out how to keep each other warm. I personally don't really care if they survive or not. We should also be able to tatoo Pedo on their foreheads before released back into society. In Big Black Bold Letters.

I do believe that TH is some how involved in this just not certain how. I will say I knew a person who allowed a RSO to be alone with her son whenever he wanted. As long as he gave her money and helped her out all was good. He got caught finally but when I tried to tell the authorities about her knowledge and involvement they didn't want to hear it. Now how sick is that? She got away with selling her child.

The intel connection, and before anyone throws anything I do not mean Kaine......but it's what my friend told me some felt wrt connection to Kyron was (meaning, an affair of one or both TH/KH, someone who knew the family and dysfunction, denial within the family unit that nothing was wrong,  escaping the BS by not going home after work or simply refusing to acknowledge issues meaning not noticing Terri was a drunk even though she admitted to being a closet drinker in order to put herself to sleep after the 05 DUI to KH, and the affadavit that she was visibly drunk several nights a week and passed out with Kiara up after midnight, well the gist was basically that someone else was far more perceptive to what behavoir was being ignored, or never even noticed due to being more detached from the day to day events in the home than norm) and a monster that saw those vunerabilities of the family and took advantage of them. AGAIN, this is ALL speculation and gossip that she told me, I will ask her if I can post her message and redact the personal information she gave me.

No formal communications.  Parent involved events were simply not scheduled.  After school soccer still went on, but came with a lot of rules.  BTW soccer is not organized by the school.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Not silly at all, after growing up in rural TX I have had my fill of poisonous snakes and that's one reason I love it here, nothing but sand unless you go into the Nat'l seashore or inland, I know it sound nuts but I am far more scared of snakes than a shark.......

BBM~I would like to hear it personally, and think everyone is entitled to a theory (well, I have more than one sadly) and not be ridiculed of be called camp Terri etc. I do think the South Pole is considered an Island and think that would be good too, and I also stated yrs ago they should have a huge tattoo on their forehead and bright green or yellow license tags since most of us that follow these cases no how to find where they live, but if they are in a park, how would we know? If there was a car with the pedo tag color, we wouldn't have to know just get the heck out ASAP. I do know in Florida it's on the their DL, but only cops see that so all of the above would work for me. I have heard cases like you mention before and I just can't wrap my head around it ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad:: Maybe I should be thankful, but it's mindboggling.......very sad the authorities didn't want to hear it, I find all to often the subject of SO's make many so extremely uncomfortable it's easier to just stick their head in the sand than address it head on, please tell me this child is ok? ::MonkeyNoNo::

scandi
Hi Cw,  It could also be this 'suspect zero' had a child at Skyline.  It would fit Blink's theory
------
hi hows the rumor mill in port,IDK seems if its a perp SO, his fam would have a red flag or 2 by now
the one thing i cant see with TH involvement with a SO, why would she hang associate with one,
then one day it pops in her head HEY dude can take care of kyron for me BC?
if TH did something to kyron, it would be her and only her,that fam connect and revenge thing
ya know, she has known him since he was 2-3 i think, when i first heard the story of kyron, the
first thing i thought was SO, when i saw where the school was, the LE looking for a wandering 7yr
old was just WHAT,WHY

You'd be surprised.......my ex molested my son and not a soul in the world would believe it, nor would he have been flagged previsouly. He was the chairman of a large bank, then hired by the Chairman personally of a Fortune 500 company, and the entire company is the chairman's way of saying "we serve God  or the Master meaning Jesus Christ....there is a hint there", was in the baptist church everytime the door opened, never drank or even said a curse word until he met me. PPL trusted their kids with him without a second thought and stated many time how wonderful he was with kids, if they only knew he didn't hang the moon. But, also he finally ventured into coaching on his time off, not that all coaches are pervs, but it does give them a way to access kids, the parent's trust and more. When the allegations and eventual proof came to light, I can't describe the shock ppl everywhere had. Sometimes I think he did it to punish me since according to LE, rape counselor, DCF, and GAL it never happened in the home we shared but after I filed for divorce so I'm not 100% sure they'd be red flagged by now. Also, I thought she moved in with Kaine when Ky was about 6 months old and they kept him in the evenings and Kaine had regular visitation, not to mention she was sleeping with Kaine before Kyron was born, so I think she knew him before 2.....pls someone correct me if I am wrong. When I heard about he staring into space I thought it was possible he had already suffered abuse of some sort, since the kids I knew that were molested (not all, but alot) did this. The therapist called is spacing out or in more forensic terms, dissasociative disorder. I never thought twice about it, but both my step kids did this, and then when I file for divorce and learn 6 mos later what I did, it came together that it is possible that was a reason for the dissassociative disorder.

neighbor
No formal communications.  Parent involved events were simply not scheduled.  After school soccer still went on, but came with a lot of rules. BTW soccer is not organized by the school.

thanks and been checking that out
do you think the folks of skyline feel it could have been an unknown to them SO

The only rumor I've heard that's going around came from my bosses' wife who works at Intel and said there has been conversation about Kyron having been sold.  That is convo around the water-cooler ;}

From reading about Terri it seems there is enough out there to say she has a somewhat provocative sex life.  Just more out of the box than the normal person.  Hanging with like people it could well put her in contact with those who are sexually seemy with fetishes and different activities to get them satisfied. 

I also read one of her acquaintances was questionable sexually and will go back to see who it was, that is other than Kaine's brother.

I don't know if pedo's also enjoy normal sex but it seems they must as we hear of them being married.  In 'Operation Ore' many of the men on the list were upstanding politicians, doctors, teachers, etc with seemingly normal lives who one would never suspect.

IMO

Maybe with the past still fresh, Skyline realized that they couldn't control a big event for the entire school. Who came in the door and if they belonged to anyone. I've been to events at the schools here for GD, the last one was just ten days ago. Everyone leaves at the same time more or less, lots of groups of kids together, lots of people when the end of the concert came. Lots of milling around.

This case is the only one I can remember where I had to go back multiple times and re-read from the beginning, so much I forgot so I found the timeline and am posting parts of it, I had this saved to an email so no link but I am sure it is still out there if anyone wants the full timeline. The BBM sections are the reason I continue to be puzzled:

Friday, June 4

8 a.m. Skyline Elementary, 11536 N.W. Skyline Blvd., opens early so students and parents can tour the science fair. A billboard outside reads: "June 4, I.B. Inquiry Expo, 8-10, Talent show, 1-2:45." Kyron was to take part in both the expo/science fair and the talent show. Terri Moulton Horman arrives shortly afterward with her stepson, Kyron.

8:15 a.m. Gina Zimmerman, president of the school PTA, arrives and sees Kyron with his stepmother in front of his exhibit.

8:45 a.m. Terri Horman leaves after watching Kyron walk toward his classroom after touring the science fair.

9 a.m. Kyron is reportedly seen by a student near the south entrance of the school, according to Sheriff Dan Staton, who says that was the last time the boy was seen.  Multnomah County authorities later backtrack on that statement.

10 a.m. Classes begin.

At some point, Kyron's homeroom teacher, Kristina Porter, reports him absent.

.
1:21 p.m. Terri Horman posts photos of Kyron at the science fair on her Facebook page.

3:30 p.m. Terri Horman goes to meet the school bus and discovers that Kyron has been absent all day. (Kaine Horman went with her to meet the bus, a fact that emerges during a television interview on June 25.)

3:46 p.m. Skyline School secretary Susan Hall places a call to 9-1-1 about Kyron being missing.

4:33 p.m. Officers from the Portland Police Bureau and the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office arrive simultaneously at Skyline School and the Horman home.

 
5:30 p.m. Rapid broadcast message from Portland Public Schools goes out to alert families of a missing student. The message: "Kyron Horman did not arrive at home today." It was broadcast to the phones of parents across the school district.

7 p.m. Multnomah County sheriff's Detective Sergeant Lee Gosson alerts Sgt. Travis Gullberg, the county's on-call coordinator for search-and-rescue efforts, of the need to begin a formal missing persons search for Kyron.

Between 7 and 7:15 p.m. The Multnomah County Public Information Officer begins to return pages from members of the media and arranges to meet them at the school.

Between 7 and 7:45 p.m. Sheriff Dan Staton personally calls the FBI to alert them to the disappearance.

8:09 p.m. The first search teams arrive at Skyline School.

8:15 p.m. Lt. Mary Lindstrand, the PIO, arrives at the school, meets with those present, and then begins e-mailing a photo of Kyron to local television stations and The Oregonian.

8:25 p.m. The search-and-rescue coordinator, Deputy Mark Herron, arrives.

9:48 p.m. Mountain Wave, an emergency communications and search and rescue group based in Gresham arrives on the scene.

10:40 p.m.  Officers at Skyline Elementary report that they have completed a search of Skyline School, including all crawl spaces, storage areas, classrooms and outbuildings. They have also searched the Horman house.

10:44 p.m. A caller to 9-1-1 wants to make sure officers have checked the train tunnel in the area near the school.  She says "sometimes kids play in there, wants to make sure someone has checked that."    

Saturday, June 5

3:23 a.m. Last transmission of the night about Kyron recorded on 9-1-1 run sheet.

5 a.m. Pacific Northwest Search and Rescue, another search group, is called by the sheriff's office and joins the search soon after. When they arrive on site, there are already about 60 to 70 people involved in the search.

9:08 a.m. The Associated Press receives its first official notification that Kyron Hormon is missing, via an e-mail with the subject line: SHERIFF'S OFFICE CONTINUES SEARCH FOR 7 YEAR OLD KYRON HORMAN


The Portland Public Schools district uses its rapid broadcast system to alert staff and parents of Skyline School students that were at the school Friday to come to the K-8 on Sunday for debriefings by police and federal agents. The oldest students are advised to arrive at 10 a.m.; kindergartners and first-graders are to arrive with parents later in the day.

4 and 8 p.m.: Authorities hold two news conferences and announce that the FBI and the National Guard have joined the effort. Search-and-rescue crews complete an "immediate grid search" around the school.

10:23 p.m. Facebook page created for supporters of Kyron and his family.

Sunday, June 6

8.58 a.m. Terri Moulton Horman posts on Facebook to say she has ordered missing-person fliers: "I ordered 1000 fliers, they will be coming to our house. I will let people know when they are here and we can go from there. Thank you everyone."

The FBI announces that they have brought in a Quantico, Va.-based profiler to create a profile of the boy.

9:48 a.m. The first of 300 students and their parents return to Skyline School to be interviewed by detectives. Fifty detectives are on-hand for interviews that continue until 4 p.m.

12:10 p.m. Relatives begin distributing missing person fliers with a photo of Kyron and this description: 3-feet, 8-inches tall, 50 pounds, blue eyes, brown hair. Last seen wearing black cargo pants, white socks and worn black Skechers tennis shoes with orange trim.

1:29 p.m. Neighbors stop by Brooks Hill Historic church, across the street from the school, to mull over the investigation. "This kind of thing is unheard of," says Jim Kelley, 50.
3:30 p.m. Carole Smith, superintendent of Portland Public Schools, appears at a news conference and outlines a series of immediate steps the district is taking to address security concerns in the wake of the second-grader's disappearance.

9 p.m. The Multnomah County sheriff escalates Kyron's disappearance to a missing endangered child case, but does not call it a kidnapping.

Monday, June 7

Early a.m. Eighteen certified search-and-rescue volunteers resume sweeping the area near the school as deputies canvass the neighborhood, handing out fliers and jotting down license plate numbers of passing vehicles along Northwest Skyline Boulevard.

8:30 a.m. The school district staffs a counseling hot line at 503-916-3931 to answer questions or offer help districtwide.

8:45 a.m. Classes resume at Skyline School. Counselors are on hand.

Evening: Kelly Ramirez, the sister of Kyron's birth mother, Desiree Young, issues a statement thanking the community on behalf of the family for their concern and support.

Tuesday, June 8

Early a.m. Search and rescue crews resume looking, checking locations identified by phone tips and investigative leads.

Authorities offer briefing. They do not accept questions.

9:25 p.m. A Facebook support group for Kyron, Missing Kyron Horman, announces the creation of a reward fund.

"We are now working on a Paypal acct which will directly take your donations to the "Kyron Horman Fund" at Chase Bank. It will take Paypal a day or so to verify the acct and become active. If you prefer to wait until that time we will then place a donation button on the main homepage we have provided. We will keep you informed as to when that will be. It is our hope that this reward fund will prompt someone with the information police need to return Kyron home. I am sure the outpouring of well wishes, prayers and love sent by all of you is helping Kyron's family through this very difficult time."

Wednesday, June 9

Early a.m. Search and rescue crews resume looking.

Morning Terri Moulton Horman makes her Facebook wall private.

11 a.m. FBI spokeswoman Beth Anne Steele says the Hormon family "is not speaking to the media because they do not believe it's in the best interest of finding Kyron."

=====================================================================================================


First, for those stating there was never a time when anyone other than Terri was seen with Kyron, this 9am timeframe conflicts with Terri being at the first FM at 9:07 IIRC

At some point????? When....surely it couldn't be that hard to establish weeks later and if it was that hard it disturbs me.

I don't even remember this bit about the train tunnels tip

Also, didn't remember Jim Kelley being into the case this early.......speaking to the media the within days ? I remembered the info about the truck in an "odd place" froom him, but forgot this bit.

Also, I forgot they PP a/c was set up that early. I thought it was later.

The not speaking to media since they didn't think it would help find him BLEW me away and still does.....IMO media attn and a family that pulls at your heart is vital and in my opinion the sooner the better, again extremely odd IMO. I know ppl think "how can you say that when you have never been in their shoes", valid point, but I pray I could find my strength and resolve to get past anything I might be ashamed of, and get in front of cameras and speak directly to my child and the perp. IIRC Tony was the first one to do this, and I can't recall how much longer after he did than KH and DY did. I can continue to look, but decided to start here since I had forgotten much of this and wonder how many others have too?

The link to the time line post by islandmonkey above me is: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

Thanks, I had no clue where I got it, I just copied.pasted it to my email a while ago.......

Ty , IM.
I didn't know that flyers were done that early.
...
There was alot of coverage and alot of agencies involved quickly.
..
When you posted about Kyron zoning out, when I first read that email of Terri's, I thought the same thing you did, that he was being abused before he went missing. I have heard of that before, two old friends of mine worked for agencies here where children were removed from their homes for all kinds of abuse and the disassocaition was a coping mechanism and is a sign.
..
But, we really don't know if Terri was making that up after the fact. Mini seizures ? Don't know why they would be waiting for an appointment. Would feel more confident in that statement if it was confirmed that the doctor thought it was mini seizures and if Terri shared that info with Desiree / Kaine. Would hate to think, but I have ,that someone Kyron was in contact with was making him not want to live where he was living, and not just the bad situation betwen Kaine / Terri. And James being gone.

Hi Island Monkey,
Doesn't your friend live in Eugene, OR? I read online that many years ago Sandi Lessman had a cyber cafe. Could you find out if your friend knows anything about the cafe or Sandi Lessman. I still believe that Terri must be feeding some of the internet blogs. Since Sesspool CLAIMS she has photos of Kaine with his bondage females, where in the heck could she have gotten those? IF in fact they are real. I am not willing to donate to her blog to view them.

I think Kaine wasn't in the house interacting with Terri alot.
Doesn't mean he could have seen this coming. Lots of men / women work alot and are not in the house as much as they want to be. 

Speaking of Sandi Lessman,
This article was published just months before Ky disappeared:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/91995929.html

I just find it odd that he was working from home later that day, but could not go see Kyron's Science Fair. Again, it goes back to personal experience. My daughter has a fit if BOTH my husband and I are not present at everything that she does.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi Patricia,
I had read this too, all I can say is UGH! When Sandi was supposed to open her cyber cafe way back in 1996, it was with a guy named James Franssen. He is an artist in Eugene and could very well have distanced himself from Sandi long long ago. However, he recently opened a "production" company in Oregon.

 BUSINESS REGISTRATIONS. - Free Online LibrarySep 1, 2009 ... Starward Productions, James Franssen, 411 W. 15th, #5. Stephens Chevron, Lutfi Thabet, Thabet Management Inc. 2677 Willakenzie Road, ...
www.thefreelibrary.com/BUSINESS+REGISTRATIONS.-a0207906497 - Cached - Similar

Probably completely harmless, I just get a little skeeved out when I cannot find anything about a company online, such as what sort of productions they do.

OOPS~I acidentally hit enter.....time to put on my reading glasses. I had forgotten so much Kat_Gram includin Terri even participating in ordering the flyers, also thanks for your input about your friend's experiences in regards to DD being a coping mehcanism....we don't know it for a fact at all, nothing -well almost nothing is known as a fact except Kyron is missing. In regards to waiting my steps Dr's never had me rush in with them after I described it, only thing that makes sense is that they might have listened to what I told them on the phone and the stress in the home and figured dissasociative disorder where I might have thought it was something much worse. To be honest, if she did share it with Kaine, I'm not sure he'd remember, I don't think he was real aware of what was happening, remember the drunk issue, the dr appt date, the fact Kyron was going to Medford that day, the hired LS, or the talent show. Seems like IMO IMO IMO IMO he was more of an absentee parent, why........I don't know, could be she was too hard to be around (but if that was the case I'd think he wouldn't want Ky or Kiara around her either) or he simply thought of those day to day issues as her job since he was working outside the home, and IMO again being a fulll time mom is a job, and the hardest job I ever had. The theory about someone in contact with him making him NOT want to live there crossed my mind in the same theory about his spacing out, arghhh. This case is maddening. I will say this, I do feel that if the Dr's appt was never made or made on the 4th rather than the 11th, I think somehow it would be well broadcast already as it would be something to point as evidence of Terri lying, and I remember a presser when DY and KH were asked about it, it was weeks later and they still didn't know the date or if it had been verified, see I just don't believe that. Also, I am in no way a Terri supporter but I go with my gut and something has never felt right in how LE interacts and tells who what they can tell (like Tyler and Tanner) yet doesn't bother leaking other info.

No, she lived there until about 4-5 yrs ago and had also lived in Portland. Her family is still in PDX however and she has friends, she lives in Atlantic City now so is sometimes hard to catch IYKWIM  ::MonkeyWink:: She and her huuby travel alot, have tons of company and I had totally forgotten she lived there until about 3 weeks ago. I will see is she knows anything about Sandi.....is she in Eugene?

Just going from memory here, but I thought the talent show was closed to parents, so even if Kaine knew about it and he states he didn't I don't think it was open for parents, but as far as the SF, I thought he could have taken him early to school with Terri and Kitty so he could see it set up (IMO and my kids opinion, even though I have seen their work at home if I didn't show up it  would destroy him), anyway he could have stayed for just 10 minutes and then left him with Terri to look at the rest of the projects. Course I have no clue when the meeting was that morning or if there really was a meeting, last I heard it was was heresay....... :2brickwall: :2brickwall: :2brickwall:

Sandi lessman portland | Iron NoobAug 31, 2010 ... John Ark, manager of 15-month-old The Habit Coffee Co. in Portland, Photo: (color) James Franssen and Sandi Lessman, working at home in vhs ...
ironnoob.com/node/48589 - Cached


Why can't I get this site to open. I would love to know what ironnoob.com is all about!

 ::HelloKitty::

My children are grown now, but i had a job where it was impossible to go to their events at school.

There are those demanding jobs that don't allow much freedom.  and with the economy the way it is now , there are tons of people waiting in line to take the job of the "slackers"-those that have more important things to do than work, such as go to kid's events at school. 

Sure, the employer is supposed to let you go to them, but, it probably will not work out well for you if you do.

If the "slackers" comment was directed at ME, I work from home. I don't make the BIG bucks, but it enables me to go to my childs events. Kaine ALSO had a lax schedule and by his OWN words worked from home frequently.

HK~ My job is very much the same way, as long as the market is open I need to be there to trade......but, I am lucky enough to have the school just 8 miles away and even though I couldn't be there for the entire mother's day event last yr, I made sure I was there for 10 minutes and my son's face was beaming since he has been to my office and knows how demanding it is, once her remarked "I'd be crazy working here", BUT when I saw his face I almost cried. He knew I couldn't be there for long, but I made the effort for him. Also that was in the middle of the day which is even harder for me, the early morning or late afternoon events are easier for me, so I do not by any means have a slacker job, in fact it is extremely demanding...the day I made the 10 minutes for an important event, the market dropped 1,000 points on the DOW and the bond Market went up 500 basis points all while I was working on a swap of 100 million bonds. I guess I am lucky, not many can do my job nor even come close to doing it at the level I do, while it does make me bat chit crazy, it allows me financial freedoms for my kids to be in the best school, and also the added security that outside of being arrested for a felony, I can put my foot down and demand that my son comes first (even if it's just for a short visit). Priorities and perspective are what is most important as a parent, if I were married and had some help, and wasn't the ONLY breadwinner it would be different, but it's just me and although I fail at many things , I try to balance as best I can my demanding job and my son in school..... ::HelloKitty::

That example may not mean much wrt the DOW dropping and the bond market rising, but it was a historic day as that had never happened in the bond market EVER in it's history, and NEVER dropped 1000 points in about 11 minutes on the DOW.

The name "iron noob" comes back to online game websites. Specken ze doitch? (sp?)

ironnoob.com
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Thank you Patricia! So, they are Dutch online games? So Sandi is bi-lingual, LOL. This is just so dang crazy, all of it! I get so upset at the Sheriff's on Kyron's case since it has not been resolved and then when I start looking at some of these players I think "OMG, look what they are up against".

 ::HelloKitty::

 I don't work for myself.  I meant the term slackers as to what employers think.

They want you to be there 24/7 and if you are not, there are hundreds of people to take your spot and they know it. 

It's a tough tough world out there.  And if you want to succeed and provide your family a living, you will ask "how high" when the employer says "jump".

Or you can stand in the unemployment line with the rest of the high paid people who no longer have a job at all.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/CYBER-CAFE+TO+LET+CUSTOMERS+SIP+COFFEE,+BROWSE+INTERNET.-a083932645

Byline: Melissa Levy Associated PressAssociated Press: see news agency.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press (AP)

Cooperative news agency, the oldest and largest in the U.S. and long the largest in the world.
..... Click the link for more information.

At Eugene's first cyber-cafe, customers won't find memos banning food and drink near computers.

``I'm sure we'll go through a lot of keyboards,'' said Sandi Lessman, co-owner of the venture that is set to open this summer. ``That's part of the business.''

Cyber-cafes are like rest stops on the information superhighway(1) A generic name for the Internet.

(2) A proposed high-speed communications system that was touted by the Clinton/Gore administration to enhance education in America in the 21st century. Its purpose was to help all citizens regardless of their income level.
..... Click the link for more information.. Patrons can relax with coffee and pastries as they log on to personal computers and exchange electronic mail, search the World Wide Web or play games.

If interested Klaas can decipher this code link:
<a href="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/CYBER-CAFE+TO+LET+CUSTOMERS+SIP+COFFEE,+BROWSE+INTERNET.-a083932645">CYBER-CAFE TO LET CUSTOMERS SIP COFFEE, BROWSE INTERNET.</a>

I hear you IslandMonkey! I have worked full time since my daughter was born. It sucks, but I am not in a financial position to do otherwise. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to work late at night to make up for the time that I have used to go to my daughters school events, etc. 

Nine! I think it is German. (I'm not sure?)

Hi HelloKitty,
You are preaching to the choir. My husband has had his salary cut so many times in the last couple of years that it makes my head spin. I live in San Diego and it is horrible here. So many people are losing their homes when their employeers are cutting their pay. The most sickening thing is that MANY of these employeers have not seen any decrease in the cash flow, they are just using the bad economy as an excuse to cut everyone, thereby making even more money for themselves. Thank goodness I believe in Karma!

I'm gald I wasn't the onlt one that felt odd....it may have not been meant that way, it just sounded that way. I am sure HK will clear it up if that wasn't her intention, because it being a slacker means busting your @ss, on 4 phones, a Bloomberg, a computer, not even able to eat until 4pm if then, well I must be one. Of, forgot, going to work sick as a dog when Dr suggested 2-3 weeks off, and I only took off 1.5 days. ::MonkeyBike::

That in itself seems a bit hinky to me. I wonder if Terri is a real friend to Sandi? I wonder if she met her playing an online game? So many questions!

Iron Noob | Game Development
Nov 18, 2010 ... Iron Noob Game Development Iron Noob Game Development. User login. Username: *. Password: *. Create new account · Request new password ...

ironnoob.com/

---------------------------

Maybe something, maybe not?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=111651011

I so wish that we had a monkey from Roseburg! I cannot believe that Terri NEVER EVER leaves her parents home. Does she don a wig and leave during the wee hours? We never hear a peep since she moved to Roseburg. Doesn't her folks have any nosey neighbors? Neighbors that like to gossip, like on an online website called Scared Monkeys? Geez!

Exactly, so many questions and so much to absorb/decipher. I wonder if Terri, with her strict child rearing policies, had possibly banned Kyron from playing online games?

Bodybuilding again????? And check out some of the members. They are not only creepy looking but what is with the cameras? I know some of these guys are truly in love with their bodies, but why would they post a profile picture of themself with a camera? Too creepy and weird. Then there is the skinny looking guy looking up to the sun. OMG, I am getting snarky, I am sorry. I could have a field day in sarcasm with these guys!

I don't work for myself either, but I do bring in enough revenue that I wear jeans, flip flops, a bball cap and a t-shirt or hoody to work.........so, they don't get ask me to jump and they know it, I tell them what I need to be a good mom and the best employee possible. Maybe it's because my job is so unique that few can do it, amazing I succeed and provide for my family and donate non-stop to those in need, and provide for my parents, my non-alkie brother and so on. But first and foremost is my child, and if it is only 10 minutes he understand. Also that is what cell phone are helpful with. I know if I even go to the bathroom, I am going to have to answer a call or lose a trade so there are ways around everything to some extent, but that did come across as offensive so I am glad you cleared it up, and thrilled my employer knows that I am the farest thing of a slacker as possible ::MonkeyWink::  Maybe the key is getting a job which is so specialized like mine that there are never 100's of ppl that can do it. Of course some don't have the skills nor the drive so for those maybe they should work extra hard to make sure they are never expendable.

"The site is currently not available due to technical problems. Please try again later. Thank you for your understanding."

It's just down for right now.

I wonder how long it has been down thus far?

Hello Kitty,  I know exactly what you mean about jobs and work.
Maybe the meeting was one that  Kaine didn't call, but a higher up did or it was a scheduled teleconference and he had to attend.
Some of our meetings are ones that can't be missed, some of them are well, exercises in not having ADD for me anyway.
.....
 
 

That would be a good reason to keep him off the computer and away from whatever she may have not wanted known. That is interesting Patricia. Has it ever been mentioned if Kyron was allowed on the computer. I don't recall ever hearing anything one way or the other. Did he communicate to Desiree via the internet? I wonder if he ever vented to Desiree about things at home? Being a kid, he would not understand how easy it would be for either Terri or Kaine to read his communications.

Nanners~San Diego must have one of the highest COL indexes other than NYC, and a few select other cities, but you worked later and more hrs to be sure you are there for the kids, and I admire that so much. That being said if y'all ever decide to move back to this area let me know, I could hook you up in my industry and if you make yourself unexpendable you could go to work naked and not get fired  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Ewwww, once again I am getting carried away. I just remembered this book I read a month or so ago. These camera toting pedo's showing up at parks, beaches, etc, waiting for a child to bend over or whatever so that they can snap the picture and post it on their kiddie porn websites. I am thinking that Alcatraz should be re-opened. Park all of these sickos over there. Let them fend for themselves.

I have begged hubby to move. We have to wait until the dang market picks up, IF THAT EVER HAPPENS! I know what you mean about the Southern LE. I cannot see them putting up with a sex offender for one second! Here in California, we are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too liberal. Not me, just so many others and the laws. Sadly, Chelsea King and Amber Dubois death has changed a lot of that. Too bad John Gardner slipped through the California cracks over and over and over. Cannot see the law enforcement in your neck of the woods letting him slip up once! In fairness to LE in California, so much of the time they work their rear ends off to bring these pigs to justice just to see them walk on some sort of BS technicality!

ITA about all of that.....but COL mean cost of living index, is that what you thought I meant or LE? All laws in all states have cracks in them, look at the DCF in Florida ::MonkeyNoNo:: Now, the LE on the Island is just like evrything else (a bit different from the LE inland) but Santa Rosa County LE is really tough, Escambia tough but crime is worse than in SRC, again the Island is like another world all together so really not fair to even compare it to anywhere else.

Related?

Sip n’ Surf Cybercafe*
99 W 10th Ave #119 (In the lobby of the Atrium Building at the corner of 10th and Olive)

Centrally located downtown in the Atrium Building at 10th and Olive, Sip n’ Surf provides the Eugene community with good coffee and easy Internet access among other things. Stop in to surf the net and try the daily changing lunch special, or grab some caffeine for kids at the slush puppy machine. Besides coffee and espresso, Sip n’ Surf has a variety of snacks and drinks to keep you fulfilled while clicking away at a computer that can be rented for 10 cents a minute or $6 per hour. Get the first 15 minutes free with your food purchase.

This is one thing I'd love verified......was there even a meeting that day?

Edit-add missing quote bracket to fix quotes.  MB

Hi Patricia,
Do you know who the owners are? Also, I just mapquested Eugene. It is over an hour to Roseburg one way and over an hour to Portland another way. How would Sandi and Terri know one another? Oh, wasn't Sandi kicked out of some sort of bondage club in Portland?

I would love to know that too! I would also love to know when soccer season ended for Kyron.

http://www.skylinesoccerclub.com/home.php?layout=1025

According to the website, there is a fall and SPRING season. Many of the practices and games are at Skyline school.

I'm working on both, I went thru the search function and found this from PDH3:

I meant to add to the above post.....the Intel employee claim about meetings is not a fact.It has not been established as the truth.

Kaine had already seen the exhibit at home. He had a job.....in fact.....he was the only person in the household working at the time supporting the family. An Intel employee on another site said that they had meetings on Friday mornings...maybe that's true, and they are mandatory. But Kaine did see the Tree Frog project, and complimented his son on it before he left that morning.


So, now I guess we'd have to find a solid source at INTEL and also a time of the meeting......if it was at 9, he'd have had time to go to the SF, spend 10 minutes and make it, or even if it was at 8:30 he could have pulled an IM, when I had to go tot the mother's day event it was in the middle of the day, I left work dorve like a bat out of he77 to the school, literally ran in, checked my phone, sat for 10 minutes and ran out, and drove like a bat out of he77 back to work, so it's possible since his office was close.
Soccer, I'm on that next ::MonkeyTongue::

Thanks Island Monkey! You rock! Check this guy out. He was homeless in Portland at one time. Jack McClellan and his disgusting buddies. http://coltonleviclark.wordpress.com/category/pedophiles/

If you google him, he seems to have vanished AGAIN!

Don't know about Oregon, but where I live, Spring Soccer ends around the end of April.

Hi Puzzler,
Going by what Blink has been posting lately, it would be interesting to know if Terri was friendly with any of the dads on Kyron's soccer team.

Hi Island Monkey,
Remember when you said that the Skyline school gave you the creeps because of its location? Fasten your seatbelt, and then view these photos. Can you say unsecure and just waiting for a stranger?

http://forums.radionewz.net/index.php?topic=151.0

Geesh...I really messed that up.  Sorry.  Here's my post:

Hi, Sebastian.

Good point.  Also, I believe the family has said that Kyron might have gone with someone he knows.  That could include a neighbor or a friend of Kaine/Terri, not to mention all the others we've talked about.  We've seen pictures of friends at the Horman home...

::MonkeyDevil:: Yes mam these were the ones I was talking about.....creepy and unsecure IMO.

PatriciaMocha,
When you are back online can you tell me how you found this website? I decided to take another look and the males under 20 category look rather creepy, especially since some seem to be about 10 and not into bodybuilding at all.  http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/photos/view-category/1?start=54

Hi Puzzler,
Do you know how we can go back and re-visit some of the photos? The photos of the friends of the Hormans. After all of the rumors, it would be interesting to look at the now with a different perspective, kwim

I don't remember who posted them...some time back...but friends in the home and some making comments about one guy looked like he was giving Terri "the" eye.  ha. 

Maybe when Brandi is online again, she may have saved those pics...Brandi is excellent with pictures.  Hopefully, "the" monkey that posted those pictures will see this post and re-post them for us to see again.

Sally Salamander It's for financial supporters of Alternate Theories only --- but since you insist on knowing where it is: http://kainelies.blogspot.com/ As previously stated, it is not indexed by search engines and so you cannot search for it.
22 hours ago ·

Has anyone been able to break into this site without coughing up money? Sandi Lessman is blabbing about the photos of Kaine at this site on facebook. Pretty funny coming from her!

Hi Sebastian, do you know all this time I thought you were a guy? lol...anyhow, I have a strange feeling, (and it is just a feeling and might very well* be wrong!!, that somehow if TH is involved by associating with another person who is responsible for Kyron missing, this person is through the gym or bodybuilding or her telling too much to too many or the wrong person on the internet. But what do I know...just a thought going through my mind at this time.

I saw this mentioned earlier someplace else.  Basically just what you said...there's a blog about "kainelies" and that it costs to get on it and there's pictures.  Wonder what they are.  Wonder how much money?  I don't "do" Facebook...anymore info on Facebook about this?  TIA

I have never heard of the majority of these sites ::MonkeyEek::
FYI ~Cracnkycrankerson probably has the largest volume of pic of any case on her photobucket. I'd try there, IIRC it's also the same SM's Amanda Reckonwith......hope that helps in regards to the pictures ::MonkeyTongue::

Shell...good points...Terri has been very open on the internet, which could have let the vampire in (as they say on BOC).

Just noticed that the site says it's open to "invited readers" only (whatever that means).

Hi Puzzler!

There is a picture thread here: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8203.0

Just about every picture can be found there or in the links provided to Terri's FB account.

Brandi - TY - will check it out.

Hi Shell,
When I first signed up I used a guys name because I was a big chicken! I was afraid to post online and especially as a female. Silly I know! Now I am obviously much more comfortable as I cannot seem to keep from posting all of the time  ::MonkeyDevil::

 ::MonkeyShocked:: So much coverage. And Kyron weighed what, 50 pounds?
If TH left him walking towards his room at 8:45, how did his school friend see him heading for the SF elec project later? Did he leave the room to see the project?  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hi Brandi!
I just found the thread too and am only about half way through and have tons of thoughts and questions. There were many things that jumped out at me but I want to see what the other monkeys think before I post too many of my thoughts. I do have a question. Who is the man with Kyron in photo 45 on page 3? Is that Kristian Horman? Also has anyone heard of Eddie Garza? I noticed that Terri was making sure that he saw Kyron's soccer photos.

This is probably a nutty question but I wonder if LE has considered hypnosis with some of the friends of Kyrons who saw him that day. The thing is that I don't know how old a child needs to be or if it would have any psychological damage to the child.

Well you had me fooled! Not silly at all. I think I know where you were coming from. Hugs  ::MonkeyCool::

Probably a super nice guy that went to school with Terri. I am just thinking about what Blink has been saying http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eddie-garza/6/a74/440
Another "friend" from Eugene

I am afraid I don't know who that man is. Sorry.

I think that is a good question. It might depend on how many financial resources they have. I just can't think of a case where they hypnotized a witness, particularly a child. At least, I have not seen it on Law and Order or those types of shows.. LOL

Didn't I read the kids were to go to their classrooms at 9 to be divided? So was anyone in the class that Kyron was walking towards? Doesn't it sound as though Kyron was alone for a time? So if this all happened this way, where did he go after walking down the hall to his classroom?

I have to correct something. Terri didn't say she saw Kyron with a man and 2 girls, she just said Kyron was seen with a man and 2 girls, like she was told that.

Sebastian,

I typed "iron noob" into my search engine and the link came up. I hadn't looked into the picture section but woah that's not good. I wonder if that website has parental permission from the parents in order to post those pictures of the underage posters. (If true that they are underage. I also wonder what the laws are pertaining to the posting of those semi nude photos? Are there any?)

http://www.katu.com/news/local/91995929.html

Sandi Lessman said she was banished from the Portland bondage community after she told Betty’s family what was going on.


---------------------------------------------------------------

Sandi Lessman speaks not just of a few people but of a of a "community" of this type here.
I wonder how difficult it would be to get a list of names in this "community" in order to cross reference?
lol.

oops. I typed "of a" twice. Sheesh lol!
Time to get some zzzz's.
Goodnight all.

So, are you going to be her facebook friend or am I? JOKING! ::MonkeyDevil::

Thank you Brandi! I think it kind of looks like Kristian but not sure.

This is exactly what bugs me>>>"Doesn't it sound as though Kyron was alone for a time? So if this all happened this way, where did he go after walking down the hall to his classroom? " It only takes a matter of seconds for something bad to happen.  :smt100

 ::MonkeyWaa::

So, because I am obsessing to the fullest degree tonight about Kyron, I had to start looking up some of the friends of the Hormans. If you look at the photos, there are plenty of names to go with the pictures. One of them is Jon Bryant. Notice the spelling of Jon. I know that Portland is a large city and there could be more than 1. I just found this myspace page of Jon Bryant rather disturbing. http://www.myspace.com/knowoner

OT...Sebastian, the news of the puppies with their ears cut off. I want those people to go to the same place the people do that hurt children.  ::MonkeyMad::

Well at about 9 some kid said he saw him by the south enterance. Another child said he saw Kyron in the gym and was not with Terri but did see Terri's truck in the lot, whether he saw the truck prior to her leaving the school around 8:45 or if he had just seen the truck and then saw Kyron has not been explained and his time of seeing Kyron in the gym is not released.
I am trying to think what would a little shy unassuming child do if he were to go to class and it was empty? Would he sit and wait alone until someone else joined him? Would he decide to go look for his friends or tour the fair again? My first thought would be he would wait for a bit in class and then go look for his teacher or an adult to ask when he should go to class, but that is just a guess though and what I think my shy child would do.

I have googled it and cannot find the information released that the children were to meet in the classrooms at 9 so they could be divided up and tour the science fair until 10.

Well great I just made myself sick, literally I feel like I am going to vomit. A possible 15 min window of opportunity for someone to grab Kyron.

Goodnight everyone, today has been a very long day and I am giving up and going to sleep.

Re: the kid seeing the truck. How many kids can distinguish one white truck from another? How did they know it was TH truck. If they saw her with the truck I could understand and take note.

Goodnight TG  ::MonkeyKiss::

15 min is a long...long time

Oh geez, I cannot follow those cases! Whenever we hear those commercials for animal abuse and that sad song that they play, we immediately change the channel. I cannot read books about any sort of abuse to children or animals if it gets graphic to any degree. I want those people to rot! It takes a really sick individual to pick on an animal or a child. I think that the punishment should REALLY fit the crime! KWIM!

That case has been on the local news stations for weeks. It is difficult to not keep up with it. The pups have a long list of people who want to adopt them.

I have been looking at the photos taken at Skyline. I have never, in my experience with a number of schools in a number of states, seen school grounds so overgrown with grass.

Oh, and the photo of a truck similar to what the Harmons had, as stated on the caption. Why would they need such a large truck?

I know, and the grass is so dang tall! I also do not understand why they have such a low fence that does not even go all around the school. Then it leads out to all of those dang trees that seem to go on and on and on. The thing that I don't get is this. Sad as it is to say, there are differences in schools based on economics. It SHOULD NOT be that way, but it is. It is my understanding that the Skyline area of Portland is rather well to do. What is the school district doing with their tax dollars? I did not see any apartments in the skyline area. So, it looks to me like these are homeowners who must pay some pretty hefty taxes. Again, where is their tax dollars going? Not for any sort of school security OBVIOUSLY! If I were a parent in that district, I would be demanding some answers.

I hear you on this. When the Market is open you must be available to place trades on the spot unless you have someone available to take the buy/sell instructions or get the trade placed. I so remember that day. It was a traumatic day for many in the market.

I did everything I could to attend the special days for my daughter when she was in school. I was a single parent from day one. I worked to support us and raise my child. I watched my child like a Hawk because I had lived with the evil in this world. When she asked me if she could have a horse it took me a week to find her one. That is how she spent her free time until out of High School. She intends to do the same with her child when she has one. Her and her husband each have a saddle horse and they each have a miniature horse. They will be very involved parents. She is pregnant right now and I am terrified for my Gkid having to grow up in this scary, evil world.

I don't know for certain who did this horrible thing to sweet little Kyron. I pray everyday they catch the perp or perps whoever they may be and take them from this world. This has happened far too close to home for me. It scares me everytime I drive to work on Hwy 30 and see the children who walk to school and must cross this Hwy to do so. The creeps who can't keep their eyes on the road because they are watching the children. There are more of these than one would think. I see them every day. Until they are caught we have no idea who they are.

This family should not have to spend this Holiday without their child. Kyron needs to come home.

Me too, I have never seen a school like that. When I first saw all the pictures of the school six months ago, my first thought was, how creepy and what a great place to film a horror movie.  ::MonkeyEek::

Good Sunday morning to you all.  Gotta run to work but I so agree with your comment Lazydog1 about Christmas.  Oh, my goodness how I feel for DY!!! As a Mom who lives for her only child I can not imagine what it would be like for me to have had someone take him and do God only knows what to him.  I know I would have to go on just to try to find him but to actually have to go every day waiting for him to come home it must  be the most  unbearable situation to be in!  I know I sound dramatic but I would need a straight jacket by now.  The thoughts of what could have happened or is happening would play over and over in my mind.  I wish I could just wrap my arms around DY but that wouldn't help the hole in her heart.  Please God, let Kyron be found by Christmas and put an end to this nightmare!  Praying for our children here on the boards and ALL missing, lost, hurt, hungry, deceased, shunned, etc., God Bless them all.

 ::HelloKitty::

the warning bell rang at 8:35 at Skyline.  Then the final bell at 8:45.  All children to be in their classrooms at 8:45 like they are every day of the year.

8:45 to 9:00.  Get kids settled, assign groups, etc.

Kyron would not be walking around 8:45 -9:00 AM. 

There is no indication of the time that Tyler Kessinger saw Kyron in the gym and the white truck.  The Horman truck has some distinctive decals on it.

::MonkeyAngel::

Because this was a special day with the science fair and talent show, and also school almost out for the summer, if all the kids were abiding by the school bell? I have no idea what kind of control they have at the school, but I'll bet there were some kids still hanging around by some of the exhibits, but who knows?

 ::HelloKitty::

Wouldn't there be staff at the exhibits as the parents could still be attending until 10 AM?

Staff would be shooing kids to their classrooms if they didn't run on their own.  Elementary age children are very good about getting to class on time.

Skyline goes up to 8th grade.  I don't know how those kids are about getting to class on time, but as a smaller school, I bet the kids are pretty responsible about going to class.

This is not the first time Skyline had such an exhibit.  I am sure that the bugs had been worked out over time on how to run the day.  Having kids run around unsupervised is not something that a school wants. 

You certainly don't want kids running around in your home doing whatever.  Schools don't want that either.

It has been reported by posters that Dave Stenson saw children outside unsupervised.  That is not true.  He saw children go outside, but he NEVER stated that they were unsupervised.  That is a conclusion that some have jumped to.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html

((snipped))

He said he remembers that even with the science fair taking place that morning things didn’t seem particularly chaotic.

“It seemed like just a pretty normal day,” he said. “It was kind of damp and wet. It had been wet for a while and the fields were hard to mow. (I) noticed that there was some children that came out the back door, and I thought, ‘please don’t come down and play soccer.’ But they came out and looked at some plants that were in the raised bed.”

Stensen’s own truck, with a trailer on the back, would have been parked in the area investigators are asking about, at least briefly, as he came and went that morning.

It would have been there on the way in, as he got out of the truck to unlock the padlock on the chain that allows him access to the field. It would have been on that road on his way out as he went behind the truck to put the chain back in place.

((snipped))

I have no idea if kids were unsupervised or supervised, my point was simply with all that going on, perhaps the rules were relaxed some that day. I don't want kids running around anywhere, in stores, restaurants, movie theaters, and my house, but it still happens all the time, and good luck controlling some kids that are rambunctious.

 ::rhino::

I believe that those who have connections to the landscaping trade ... those who have emerged in the course of the Kyron Hormon case ... should be a focus of the investigation.

Connect the dots.

Janet

Thanks, it's truly hard to explain to anyone unless they have been there, but I still do my best to get to the special events at his school and I have been a single mom all but 3 yrs. Cogratulations on the grandbaby ::MonkeyAngel:: That was a great idea about the horses, when we lived in an area where we had access my daughter would spend hours riding, grooming and feeding......it tends to keep he kids busy, learning how to work and love an animal and to me it was amazing to see how the troubled kids would turn around when given a responsibility.

I want Kyron home for Christmas, the perp/perps arrested and everything tied in a bow....sadly I don't think it's going to happen and that is heartbreaking to see the case drag into a new yr ::MonkeyNoNo::

There was something written the children where to meet in the classrooms by 9 to be assigned to groups. Terri states Kyron was walking to his class by 8:45, there is a possible 15 min opportunity for someone to have taken Kyron. imo

HK obviously not all of the kinks had been worked out as a little boy went missing during the time of the SF.

 ::rhino:: ITA with this-especially towards year end....and I had a rambunctious child, my daughter ::MonkeyHaHa:: When she was in K-2nd she went to a Stepford School, the couldn't talk in the bathroom or at lunch and were supposed to walk in a straight line everywhere, of course mine wasn't a stepford child so this never happened and she pulled sticks everyday and I wasn't working at that point for a few yrs so I worked at the school alot and was a volunteer in the gym, sometimes it was chaotic and the bell reinging meant nothing to the kids...again I am talking about yr end when the kids know they are almost done and are my school was more lax about the rigid rules.

Which area of the school did the kids come out? He said the back door, would that be the south entrance that a child says they saw Kyron by? Sorry not good with directions.
Would someone with knowledge of how to do it, please post the one pic of the school that shows an aerial view? Can someone with knowledge of how to do it, please put an arrow where the south entrance and soccor field is? Please?

Exactly IM, these were a bunch of kids excited about the science fair and talent show, not a bunch of people in the army. There is no way that all the kids are going to behave, you had your daughter, and I was one also  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Well, he never made it back to the classroom. No one saw him in the hall on the way to.
Yet in Terri's emails, she had someone tell her that Kyron was with a man chaperone and a couple of little girls. Her words.
..
They have spent months and countless hours trying to figure this out, the GJ has been meeting, nothing yet. The list they just recently sent out, that tells me they have some conflicts in their  information and LE isn't sure who was there and who wasn't there that day. Six months later it isn't going to get much clearer.
..
Ms. Porter told some kids Kyron was in the bathroom or at the water fountain. If she thought he was at the doctor, why didn't she say so ? I have always had a problem with her. Don't think she is in any way involved, but she didn't seem on the ball did she ? She didn't really know where he was and do anything proactive to find out. Just marked him absent.
That school seemed rather complacent. Not only for security and background checks for volunteers, for RSO's and SO's but for the safety of the kids. Near a big rural area, forest, big pond close to the school, lots of trouble if a kid wanders off. 
..
Terri could have done this, but I can't see this going to trial. Can't see any charges being laid. I can see her lawyer filing a suit against the MCSD, the ones who gave the sexts to Kaine.
   

A few months back, there was a young boy by a man (pedophile?) in a park that is located fairly close to the Skyline area.  That boy gave LE a description of the man and a picture was drawn of the man...very detailed.  IMO, it looked stunningly like the GK...even to the little hairs sticking up on top of the heard.  A couple of SM posters thought it didn't look at all like the GK.  IMO, the likeness was stunning.  Anyone who's curious...should look that up and see the two pictures. 

I think that something is missing and not revealed about Ms Porter that the police don't want out. She has probably given them much for info, at least I would hope so. Also just because you are a teacher doesn't mean you like all the kids and treat them all the same. Maybe Ms Porter didn't like Kyron as much as some of the others and was just lax about it all? Who knows?

I remember that

I would like to see the drawing. I am uncomfortable bringing GK's pix up again. I know where to find his pix. I feel for him being dragged into this. As far as I know he just showed up to cut the grass on the soccer field. These kinds of allegations involving persons who as far as anyone knows have done nothing somehow grow legs.

What if Kyron did make it to class and nobody saw him because he was the only one in there? One child says he saw Kyron by the south entrance door, is that the door by his classroom? Was this prior to 9 and was Kyron alone? How many south doors are there? Is there a bottom level south door without stairs? Tanner says he saw Kyron at about 9:00 as Kyron was heading down the stairs saying he was going to see a cool electric one which would tell me someone must have told him about a project that he hadn't seen yet. Was Tanner going up the stairs towards his classroom and Kyron coming from his classroom? I have read both things, he passed him in the hallway and he was walking up the stairs. I think the school has 3 stories, which of the 3 stories were these stairs on? Is this when he was seen with a male and 2 girls as Terri stated in the email? A boy at the school had said he saw Kyron in the gym with his friends and having fun. Was this before or after 9? He also states he saw Terri's truck so does this tell us it was before 8:45 while Terri was still there and that is why the kid thought it ok to tell his story?

Prior to 8:45- student sees Kyron in the gym with friends having fun
8:45- Terri leaves Kyron as he walks to his classroom
8:45-9:00 -Kyron is where? Doing what? With whom? reports state he never made it to class, which can also mean no one saw him.
9:00- Tanner says he saw Kyron in the hallway and walks down the stairs (which stairs) and says to Tanner I am going to see a cool electric one, (was this a project he had yet to see?)
Terri stated Kyron was seen with a male and 2 girls.

So it is plausable, Kyron was seen by a man who had plans to abduct either kyron or a boy that morning, and as he is trolling the hallways for lone children or waiting for Kyron to be alone he sees him in the classroom or near the classroom and told him, there you are, I am here to take you around the fair, I just saw a cool electric project that we have waited to see until we found you. Come on lets go, I hear it is great!
So Kyron leaves with this man and while walking down with him, Tanner sees him with the man and 2 girls. Is this why Terri was told about the man and 2 girls Kyron was seen with. I wonder which area of the school Tanner saw Kyron because that is the area he was taken out of the school. 

That certainly could be what happened, what I found odd from the beginning, is here you have a little boy telling another little boy about a cool electric project, now I don't know if Tanner had already seen it or not, and even if he did, if it was that cool, you would think Tanner would have went with him. Just trying to think at that age, and believe that I would have gone with Kyron. Anyway, what exactly was the cool electric project, who made it, and how many other electric projects were there?

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/

Essay Kaye says:
December 19, 2010 at 10:28 am
Every time I start exploring the idea that TH was not involved in Kyron’s disappearance, I come back to the fact that she has not successfully fought for custody of her daughter, or at least some sort of visitation. My daughter is almost the same age as Kitty and children at this age develop so fast in these early years. They become very conversational and their little personalities really start to emerge — I would not miss one day of this magic time! And if my daughter had been taken away because I had been falsely accused, you bet I’d retain the best attorney available to do battle and clear my name so I could get my child back as soon as possible. But this isn’t what TH did: instead she hired a high-powered attorney who obviously advised her to avoid any litigation that will open the door to questioning and/or discovery that might be incriminating even though this strategy prevents her from seeking any adjustment of the restraining order. MOO – but it is inescapable therefore that whatever TH is seeking to avoid disclosure of must be very very serious.

TH, in my opinion has not done anything to help investigators in this case. For that, among the other things we have learned about her activities and behavior, she is second on my list POI in this case in case that is not clear by now. I also believe she faces possible criminal charges in a mfh plot against her husband. How strong that case is, I have my doubts.

That said, they flat out told her she failed a polygraph. That is a rookie error, imo.
The second that exchange ocurred, to be honest, pretty much invalidates future tests unless they are specific as to what they have quantified “deceptive” responses.

Not to mention, we are assuming that is a true statement in the first place, when LE is under no obligation to be truthful in an interview.

I think people are forgetting she consented to have her home searched, cars, computers, etc.

Don’t come back at me with it is Kaine’s house, because in the eyes of the law in a criminal matter, it is absolutely both of their property, as is everything else.

Desiree tells her she is coming to the house, and Terri’s response was “You are”?

Does that sound like the woman who has thought of everything here?

All this occurs, while a deputy is in the home almost 20 hours per day, while conversations are apparently taking place that she was told that she was considered a defacto suspect.

I will be 100% honest. If I were ever in that position (God forbid), I would have hired an attorney following the polly, period. Had TH hired Houze prior to June 26th, I have very serious doubts that “sting” would have occurred in the first place.

Point is, she hired counsel after she absolutely knew LE participated in an attempt to set her up, and advised her husband of same. In her mind, I have no doubt she has been advised that pursuing visitation of Kiara will result in charges being brought against her, and she will have no chance of seeing her anyway, so then what choice did she have?

Having the benefit of speaking to some insiders in this case, I have to believe that if Th has information that would help locate Kyron, her atty would have proffered and leveraged same appropriately.

That said, if she is involved, she has told him she is not, and nothing in their own investigations has proved otherwise, imo.

So my long-winded way of winning the Captain Obvious award:

She is either involved and waiting for the boom to be lowered.

Or

She is guilty of being a cruel step-mom who had it out for a 7 year old, with a broken moral compass, and may have wanted to off Kaine for as yet unknown reasons, and she has no idea what happened to Kyron.

B

NoRose I wonder if the "cool electric one" was a lure to get Kyron in an area that he could overtake him and get him out of the school. Obviously Kyron left the school and it was not with Terri. I suppose too the man could have said, meet me (someplace) and you can see it. Or help me get it out of my truck, I still have to set it up and this is when Kyron was seen near the south exit and/or near a truck. 

On a side note, You know if Tanner did see Kyron with this man, then I hope someone is watching out for Tanner as he was put on TV and allowed to tell the story and although he made no mention of the man, the man knows he saw Kyron. Pretty stupid on the part of the grandmother I think. 

Thank-you again Puzzler for bringing that over, it amazes me that when someone retains a lawyer and abides by the lawyer's rules, somehow that makes a person guilty. I really don't know at this point if Terri is involved, if Terri is involved with someone else, or not at all. And I agree with Blink that Terri has a broken moral compass, but so do a lot of people.

http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton/index.ssf/2010/08/beaverton_police_release_sketch_of_suspect_in_sexual_assault_at_fanno_creek_park.html

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image55a-video.png)

I think it must have been to lure Kyron, because if someone could point out what this cool electric project is, I would appreciate it, don't recall reading exactly what it was. Tanner's grandma really had no business allowing Tanner to speak like that, she was told not to  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Although I posted the drawing next to Dave's pics, I personally don't think Dave is involved with Kyron's disappearance. JMO.

I don't have an opinion on Dave either.  But the discussion earlier of the GK made me remember the police sketch that had come out earlier...and since we seem to be going over a variety of things lately to see if we can discern anything that was missed,  I brought it up.  Thanks for the photos, Brandi.

Thanks Brandi

Probably for the childs own safety!

TANNER PUMALA

Horman's desk mate says substitute noticed Horman missing
Last Update: 6/11 9:19 am

Eight-year-old Tanner Pumala says the first person to notice Kyron Horman missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.

"And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Mrs. Porter was like it's okay calm down, calm down he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I'm going to leave and she left, " says Tanner Pumala.

But, Portland Public School spokesman Matt Shelby said the account can't be true: "There were no substitutes at the school that day (the day Kyron disappeared)," he said.

Shelby thinks Pumala may be confused because all week after the disappearance a subsitute teacher has been at the school to help with the stress of the Horman case.

Tanner is Kyron's deskmate in their combined second-third grade classroom.  Tanner says Kyron was in school for at least an hour Friday morning and that he saw Kyron's step-mother leave the school without Kyron.

F-B-I agents interviewed Pumala, and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton visited with Pumala Wednesday afternoon according to Pumala's grandmother Wendy Fuhrur.

Upon hearing the substitute teacher noticing that Kyron was not present in the classroom, Pumala says the regular teacher said Kyron had probably gone to get a drink of water or to use the bathroom.  It wasn't until the bus ride home from school, says Pumala that he noticed Kyron was not on the bus.  Kyron's step-mother notified school authorities of her son's not being on the bus at around 3:45pm Friday afternoon. 

Pumala's grandmother says F-B-I agents and Multnomah County investigators have asked Pumala and his grandmother not to speak with the media, for reasons they did not divulge. Fuhrur says she decided to allow her grandson talk, in part to keep the missing boy in the public eye.  

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Hormans-desk-mate-says-substitute-noticed-Horman/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx


Interview with Tanner Pumala friend of Kyron Horman
 
Klaasend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tAZ1FmHtcI


Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. -- A statement from the parents of a missing 7-year-old boy is expected to come sometime Wednesday as investigators wrap up the final interviews of parents, students and staff at Skyline School.

Second-grader Kyron Horman disappeared from his rural northwest Portland school Friday.

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.'

I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

As the search for Kyron enters its sixth day, Tanner said his friend's disappearance is all he can think about.

"I'm feeling really sad. For the last five days, I haven't gotten much sleep," he said. "I'm hoping that my best friend will come back."

Classes at Skyline School continued as scheduled Tuesday. Tanner said he and fellow students have spent time in class writing letters to Kyron and piling them on his desk.

"If we ever do find him, it's going to be hard for him to go on the bus with all of his stuff," Tanner said. "He has a pile of stuff with a great, big teddy bear."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

 ::HelloKitty::

Where is it stated that Tanner saw Kyron at 9:00 anywhere?  I have not seen that anywhere. 

As far as the teacher saying her statement to Tanner, if she in fact did, a doctor's appt is private.

She may have said what she did to deflect Tanner.  It's none of his business where Kyron is.  It's none of the "sub's" business where Kyron is.  No one outside of the family and the teacher has the right to know that Kyron was going to the doctor.  Maybe the "sub" was a busybody as well.

And it could be , in light of what we saw was the grandmother of Tanner's behavior, the teacher knew that the grandmother was a "flake" and Tanner would be telling her the info about the doctor's appt.

As a neighbor, Grandma could get on the phone with the Horman's and question them about the dr's appt, something that is none of anyone's business.  The teacher could be called on the carpet for telling anyone that Kyron was going to the doctor. 

Thanks Janet, is there anything in an article about this cool electric project? 

You're very welcome ;-)

Hi no rose.

An exerpt from on of the articles I posted mentions the electric project.  Also ... the time frame is revealed.

Janet

+++++++

The time frame revealed by Tanner ... implies that Kyron went missing immediately following Terri's departure.

Janet

Thanks Janet  ::MonkeyCool::

I remember that, it totally looked like him to me..when I saw the sketch and the GK my eyes were like thise ::MonkeyEek:: freaky how much they looked alike IMOO

 ::HelloKitty::

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

1.  Why would the "sub" ask where Kyron is when he never made it to the classroom?  Obviously, Kyron was not in her group and no concern of her's as she said, "All right, I'm leaving".

2.  If Terri left Kyron at 8:45 ,and she would know because the bell is ringing, why was Tanner going down some stairs when his classroom is upstairs?

3.  Why did
Tanner not notice that Kyron was gone all day when hie desk is right next to Kyron's?

HK would you mind please posting the child privacy law that states a teacher cannot divulge if a child is at a doctors appointment and not just constricted from saying what the reason is for the appointment. I think that maybe useful for me because I am under the impression they cannot say why the child is being taken to the doctors. I do believe though the teacher had said this to the sub, not to Tanner and Tanner over heard it being said.
Also, I have found several accounts that it was about 9 that Tanner saw Karon, or Karon was last seen at 9. Perhaps you can find it as well. 
Terri and Karon did not leave the school together. Karon was taken or lured by someone for whatever the reason. Did Terri set it up? Was it a random abduction? Those are the questions left to be answered in my opinion.
 

I respectfully disagree.  I contend IF Tanner is revealing the truth ... Kyron went missing between 8:45 AM went Terri departed and 9:00 AM went class started.

Janet

+++++++


Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.'

I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

[/quote]

I think Tanner did noticed but you didn't believe it, or did I misunderstand you?

Providing if Tanner has his facts straight, and I have no idea if he does or not, but if the teacher said that Kyron was either getting a drink or in the bathroom, wouldn't other kids be wondering why he was doing this all day? If a teacher isn't suppose to tell a kid that another kid has a doctor's appt, couldn't she just say he went home?

I have stated over and over that I would have retained an atty if everyone in the family was pointing fingers at me and I knew I was innocent, but Blink does out it better than I ever could as I would have had an atty on the phone ASAP after they tried to set me up....I never thought about that part  ::MonkeyConfused::
Also in the beginning Staton stated she was cooperating, and IIRC the only ones who said she wasn't were KH, DY & TY....didn't seh take 2 polys without any problem and did consent to all the searches, so I can also see walking out of another one if they were using typical interrogation techniques of "we know you are lying and we know you do it and have a witness etc etc etc".....AGAIN I am NOT saying she is not involved, but I can see her behavoir and reactions 2 differnt ways, one she is guilty as he77 and her body language was so weird, OR she isn't involved and felt guilty for being the last one the family points fingers to as having been with Kyron, to me that first presser she looked so odd but looking back I can see it as "Oh my Lord, they (KH, DY, TY) think I did it and fearful....

LOve the captain obvious.......but, I am more than frustrated we are still at this point but also feel somewhat better that in the last PC from Staton he stated that they had to look at all options including SO's (paraphrasing). God speed lil man ::FlyingFrog::

In the post I made last night Staton stated Kyron was seen at 9am:

9 a.m. Kyron is reportedly seen by a student near the south entrance of the school, according to Sheriff Dan Staton, who says that was the last time the boy was seen. Multnomah County authorities later backtrack on that statement.



 Brandi~I finally found where I snatched the timline. It was WS, I knew I wouldn't go to OL as they want nothing posted of any length so I started looking around and found it there, granted they may have snagged it from OL, I just don't recall a link......but it was about 2am and my eyes were crossing.

[/quote]

Yes, I think this makes the most sense when you put everything together.
 
I dont' know why the sub/helper person says, "oh no there are only 5 where is Kyron" perhaps she is checking the list of who was supposed to be a certain group and noticed Kyron was not there. I think knowing how the kids were divided and who divided them or if the kids were responsible for entering a group and an adult didn't physically place a child. In other words, were the kids to look at the list and find his/her group and not an adult calling out names for their group. I have seen it done both ways so I am not sure which. So perhaps the sub/helper at that time noticed she toured the fair with only 5 and not 6 and then at that time asked where is Kyron? Perhaps the teacher again misunderstood what the sub/helper was asking or stating because she saw Kyron earlier in the day and said, well maybe he stopped to get a drink or go to the bathroom. And when she figure out what exactly the sub/helper said, thought well maybe he went to the doctor with terri. To me that all makes sense.

[/quote]

Agreed, I found this also:

WHEN/WHERE LAST SEEN:
“His stepmother said she last saw him at 8:45 a.m. Friday. She watched him walk toward his classroom after the pair toured the school's science fair.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...on_horman.html

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

TP, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project. http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...the_day_k.html

Kyron was last seen by someone inside the school around 9 am (LE won’t comment on who saw him)
(According to Press Conf. 6/7)
Another reporter asks for further clarification of earlier time line statements by LE
"I can't answer your question completely, but I can say the last point at which Kyron was seen was about 9:00 am, but uh . . ." (Then the reporter cuts him off.)
Later on, a reporter asks if the last sighting was by the stepmother or someone else: "I'm not able to give those details."

from www . youtube .com /watch?v=hi4P3vGDow8
Transcribed: "He was seen near his classroom, and the last point was down at the south entrance door of the school."


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106874

Where is the south entrance to the school? Which door is it?
I wonder if perhaps LE retracted that statement for the safety of the student who saw Kyron. Who is to say the person who took kyron didn't also see the child who saw Kyron at the south entrance.

 ::rhino:: I have never heard that a teacher can't divulge a child has a Dr appt., if so every school my kids have been in has violated this law. To go further, I do know how strict HIPPA laws can be, but during my divorce I was able to get every freaking record on my husband since his mental/health issues were part of the courts concern about custody, of course I never expected them to be 2 ft high, and I got every RX he had been prescribed from Dr's, ER's, diagnosis ......it was unbelievable how much info I rec'd, I even learned he admitted to a counselor that he sometimes wanted to walk into the middle of traffic and end it all ::MonkeyTongue:: Kinda helped nail the coffin shut along with everything else we had, so I bet KH or even DY could get the info if she filed for custody.

When Tanner saw Kyron in the hallway immediately following Terri's departure ... was he headed in the direction of the South Entrance in his quest to see an "electric" display.

Could it be that Kyron had been deceived in regards to an "electric" display.  In other words ... his abductor ... known or unknown to him ... was waiting by the South Entrance?

Janet

++++++

Search for Missing Kyron Horman Now a Criminal Investigation
Jun 13, 2010

Other witnesses say they saw Kyron around 8:45 a.m. in the hallway near his classroom door but also near the south entrance of the school. It is unknown if the 7-year-old was in the company of anyone.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5484030/search_for_missing_kyron_horman_now.html

Because of privacy laws, in most states, the teacher cannot tell anyone that a student has a DR. appointment. The student or parent can, but not anyone else.

 ::HelloKitty::

Hasn't LE repeatedly said that TH was the last known person to see Kyron?  That has been said over and over and over again.

That knocks the 9 AM time out.

I don't think teacher's are allowed to reveal the reason's for a child's absence.

If you were bringing your child to the doctor to have your child tested for an STD, for example, because of some circumstances, would you want the teacher to announce to anyone that your child was going to the doctor?  Would you want to answer nosy questions asking why you are bringing your child to the doctor?  Or maybe you are bringing your child to the doctor for any number of reasons.  It is no one's business , is it? 

I would not want a teacher telling anyone the reason for my child's absence.  Maybe my child is absent because I am at the hospital because my husband beat me up.  Do you see the issues here?

The teacher may have said the first thing that pooped into her mind, if it was said at all.

The kids were to assemble in small groups, led by a sub or a volunteeer or a person.
That means that there was more than one that was taking the kids around.
Someone was expecting for Kyron to be in their group.
Ms. Porter doesn't seem concerned, makes a remark about the bathroom or water fountain.
Isn't concerned at 10am marks him absent.
Isn't concerned at 1 pm when he is still not there for the Talent Contest.
Isn't concerned at the end of the day, goes home.
...
Even within this small group of kids and a teacher and assorted " helpers " the story is different.
...
Tanner , I hope along with this small circle would have been interviewed first, before the school realized they had a problem and went into CYA against a lawsuit mode.   

It's up to a DR to fight a subpoena for medical records. Some DRs will refuse and some comply depending on the issues at stake. However, a subpoena for a legal action is a much different thing than a teacher telling a child's classmates that he has a DR appointment. It's not allowed. A Dr.'s office can't even confirm that someone is a patient to anyone else except the insurance co. for any patient over the age of 14, and under 14 only to the parent or legal guardian.

BBBM~not to my knowledge. In the beginning PC's it was stated he was seen at 9am and I found that on several sites and a yt video. They later backtracked, so yes and no if that makes sense.......originally yes he was seen at 9 by the South Entrance and since Terri was at FM1 at 9:07, I think the timeline is too tight for Kyron to have been seen at 9 and with Terri.

Also wrt the teacher, I never would imagine a teacher would disclose the REASON...but I do know from when I volunteered at school that have said "XYZ is a dr, dentist apt so I need to partner you with someone else" when they were talking about group work, nobody thought anything of it as they never stated what the appt was for.

We have privacy laws at my work. All that is required is :
She is not here until xxxx, she / he has an appointment.
She went home sick is ok.
She is on vacation is ok.
If someone is on long term sick, we are told they are out on medical leave.
..
I know what I am to disclose and what I have to present to satisfy them. 
 

The drinking fountain is in the hallway next to the girls' bathroom.

We subpeoned pharmacies, hospitals, dr's and it was to the record keeper and we got everyone. But then again my case doc's were sealed as a minor child was involved, but I do think a judge would rule in our favor had they not just sent the information as it was in the best interest of the minor child, also I'd think my husband's atty would have fought it if he could. I can call my atty and find out as I know it's not that cut and dry as I was lead to believe. It was very simple, and one request was all it took to get the info with no fight, not even a phone call.

Are you stating for FACT it's not allowed or opinion? I know it happens all the time so I would love to cite the statute you are referring to ....anything to protect kids and their privacy. Also I understand the Dr's office not telling info, that is not what we are trying to figure out as it wasn't brought up to my knowledge that anyone tried that? WRT Kaine checking on the Dr's appt, he absolutely could.

Not everyone is trained in HIPPA, or follows it every time. But no teacher should divulge any information like that without a parent's written permission. Verbal is not good enough to comply with HIPPA. Once a child has stated  out loud in the classroom that he/she has a DR. appointment it might get a little fuzzy.

I'm pretty familiar with HIPPA and generally when it comes to schools it gets sketchy......for instance a school nurse can tell a teacher about a child's medical problems......never seen anything about a teacher making a general stmt about an appt being a violation, however it is a moot point wrt to finding Kyron.

A Dr. is charged with keeping the privacy of the patient unless the records are subpoenaed, and the medical records belong to the Dr.  You were lucky that no one fought the requests. I have worked with DRs who have refused to honor a subpoena many times.....and always won.

I realize that no one asked specifically about Dr's offices, but....nevermind.

I have been trained repeatedly in HIPPA due to my work, so I do know it very well, so it is not an opinion. I will say that it has been misinterpreted by many people in many ways, and the understanding of the law varies.
You can look up the privacy laws online. Some states and schools and businesses have their own privacy policies too.

pooped? I hope not!  ::MonkeyDevil:: Sorry, had to put some laughter in to break up the banter.  ::MonkeyCool::

HK, you may be getting too literal. Perhaps you're mixing rumor with facts? We don't know what really happened that day, or the exact time line. Most of it is conjecture that the press put out, and those reports don't equate to facts.

I did a long time ago due to my son's anxiety,  but was told HIPPA falls more under the lines of transmtting reocrd and medical staff, not teacher....I was told it falls more under FERPA and this is some of the info I was given....

What about HIPAA? How does that affect school health services?

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act is another federal law that dictates how health records are to be handled. A school is subject to HIPAA only if it provides medical care and electronically transmits health information as part of a "covered transaction" (e.g., billing). See 45 CFR §160.103. For schools that meet that criteria please see this additional guidance .For schools that meet that criteria please see this additional guidance .

For most schools, HIPAA will only be an issue when you communicate with a student's medical provider. While you are not regulated by HIPAA, almost all medical practitioners you deal with are covered by HIPAA. They can not disclose protected medical information without authorization except for treatment purposes, payment and operational purposes. Since "treatment purposes" is one of the exceptions, a practitioner may relay or clarify treatment orders to individuals involved in the treatment of that patient (e.g., school nurse) without obtaining authorization.

Some medical offices may not have a thorough understanding of HIPAA. While it is entirely legal for them to clarify treatment plans, etc., without authorization, many offices may still refuse to do so. You might share this response from the U.S. Department of Health on this matter.

 



One major misconception about FERPA.

FERPA does not protect the confidentiality of information in general. FERPA prohibits the improper disclosure of information contained in the education record. FERPA does not apply to one's opinions or observations unless it is entered into the record. However, you must consider the fact that confidentiality of facts learned in the course of your nursing duties may be required by the virtue of your nursing license.



So, lets move on to more constructive discussion about Kyron.

Soooo...... Moving along......

This list that was put out. According to Valhall, whom I respect very much, seems to believe that it was put out there to make sure all of LE's i's were dotted and t's crossed before an indictment was handed down. I believe this as well.

There was a reason this was handed out to the public.

I pray you are right, and isn't the divorce case scheduled for next month? Hopefully an arrest will come from these actions, on the other hand (my other theory) if LE are looking for someone else, where are we now? Do they have any idea WHO....Blink has alot of good information and it has me concerned that they are looking for another person who either in conjunction with Terri removed Ky, or without her knowledge but possibly due to someone letting the vampire in.

Hi Sassifrass,
Isn't Valhall's site The Hinky Meter? I was just reading something over there. I thought I would re-visit Kerry Sama Rubio. In this link it has Terri's text response to Michael Cook's question about money for her attorney. She mentions a Kerry. I just found it odd and it was the first time that I had seen it.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/26/kyron-horman-case-kaine-files-additional-documents/

Blink has her own investigating team. Personally, although I respect her as an analyst, this time I have to agree to disagree with her theories. I'm not being close minded, I'm just basing my opinions on the FACTS that have been released, which isn't a lot.

I believe the "vampire" that TH let in is one of her associates. TH is not hiding behind that wall of attorneys because she did a no no with someone else. She's not hiding because she went down a different road than what she said. She's not hiding because she is feeling scared that her family and friends may find out what she does in her spare time.

Terri is hiding because she knows something about Kyron being missing on June 4th, 2010. JMO

BBM above.

I believe it is the front, main entrance to the school, pictured below:

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/floorplanofSkylinecropped.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/missing30.png)

Yep, the Kerry is Kerry Sama Rubio. She testified before the GJ. I don't think she is as inoccent as she perceives herself to be. She and TH were VERY close friends.

And yes, Valhall is thehinkeymeter.

Of the many post from Blink that make me feel like it may not be wrapped up at the end of Jan are these......I feel like we are all on a roller coaster ride in this case.

@puzzled
If Ky’s disappearance points to a serial pedophile what are the chances of the ped being “caught”? And, what are the chances of LE finding Ky’s body? Do you personally think TH knows who this perp is?
TIA

I wish I had a better feeling about this than I do, but with the amount of assets involved in this investigation and it’s status, I fear he will not be apprehended until he attempts this again, or potential evidence is uncovered with Kyron’s remains (like DNA). I stand by my idea to get the parents and staff together and get them talking.
B

17.Blink says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:13 am
My dear friends, I cannot post some of your posts, which are tantamount to pointing a finger at a named individual who has a child at the school.

I know you understand. There are many parents that read here, hopefully they do not allow their school age children to, but I certainly have no control over that and would not want them to see something like that about a parent or friends parent, etc.

If you want to discuss such specifics, your going to have to develop a hypothetical code.

Affectionately,

B




??????

Has something been discovered about another parent that we don't know about...I am not trying to kid myself that SO's don't exist in every shape and form, and some could be friends, neighbors, dr's, atty's ect., generally people we'd be shocked to learn about when the facts are exposed. I am guessing this is just peeps investigating the list, but it's not unheard of or a stretch to have a child in school who has a parent/step/uncle etc that is an SO, even Kaine has one, of course Kristian seems to prefer girls so that makes him not fit the general profile since the majority have gender/age preferences and rarely stray from those. ::MonkeyWaa:: :2brickwall: :2brickwall:

IM,

It is a roller coaster ride with this case. As long as there are theories put out there on blogs without actual FACTS, it will continue that way.

If we made a list of all of the facts that ONLY LE put out there, what would it be?

I appreciate your response being so respectful.....sometimes in this case that is a rarity ::MonkeyAngel::

I have 2 theories and agree the facts are minimal at best. I do know I would hire an atty if I had cooperated and told them everything over and over, consented to searches etc., but respect other's opinions too that it makes ppl look guilty.

What is it you think she knows about Kyron that day? I am asking because I appreciate everyone's opinions, do you think she did this herself with no help or left the school alone and met up with someone in that 90 minute block of time? In my theory with her involved to the max that is what I am leaning towards (of course it is subject to change daily if not more).

Thanks again and I never thought of you as closed minded....I never stated anyone here was, so I hope nobody thinks I personally think that.

TIA

IM

I also respect Valhall's opinion. But I am unable to see how this list precludes an indictment.
Maybe it is I who is being thick headed on that list issue.
.........
What would they be charging her with ?
The parents think he is alive. MCSD haven't said otherwise either.
Unless they have some very good reports about someone seeing her leave the school with Kyron or they have a traffic cam of her with him after leaving the school.
...
The intial reports that were in Oregon Live leave alot to be desired, the rest of it is mostly mud slinging.
.. They have to do something, can't leave her ( or any other person ) as an unoffical suspect for years.
The biggest thing they have on her is the failed LTD but that cannot be used in court.
If she did it and never says another word about it or the MFH, I can see her getting away with it. Too many persons were at that school, IMO   

Good question. Fact~Kyron is missing and we have conflicting statement from Tanner and Tyler and others as to when he was last seen or if alone?

Fact~Desiree saw the emails....but, in her position I would consider anything negative she wrote about my child hatred, when it could have been venting (Lord knows I did my share of that when my kids were teens), so until we know the content I can't say one way or the other without context how bad they were.

Fact~ She lawyered up

Fact~Kaine and Desiree stated she failed the polys.......but LE can lie to someone and IIRC Terri herself told them she failed and we don't know what questions.

Fact~MFH of Kaine......again, the sting failed and I feel if they had enough evidence she'd have been arrested (but again that is just my opinion) and with the MFH info Kaine obtained a RO.

I am certain I am missing alot more so let's brainstorm and put them down, and only facts that are from LE.....what do you think?

KG, your post before this and this one hit the nail on the head for me......do I think she's prolly guilty in one of my theories, absolutely......but no clue to what extent so if I was on a jury I couldn't convict on what we know now.

Considering the FACT that came out by Desiree, about TH saying that she could take custody of Kyron, about 1 year prior (and I do believe her), but Kaine said, "that's not an option", I believe, IMO, that TH set other plans in motion. I don't have an exact idea what she did, but I do believe her lost time that day had to do with an associate (not a friend), that she had met previously.

I don't feel for one second that TH had feelings for Kyron as she did with Kaira. I believe in her mind, she treated him like a student. Very critical, and punished him if he didn't do it her way. In her eyes, IMO, I believe Kiara and James were her true children.

Fact - LE says what we need is concrete evidence

Fact - LE says the Kyron investigation has led to other investigations

Fact - LE says they are not ready for an arrest nor an indictment and may not be even by February.

Fact - LE says this investigation could take many more months

I am inclined to believe that Terri Horman DID NOT leave the school with Kyron at 8:45 PM.  Could it be that prior to leaving the school Terri deceptively steered Kyron towards the "south entrance" with a story about an electric display.  Nevertheless ... when all is said and done ... Kyron was not in class 15 minutes later.

I firmly believe there is a DeDe Splicher connection.  Actually ... I believe there could be a connection between players who have emerged in the Kyron Horman case who are involved with landscaping related trades and ... that connection could involves child expoitation.

IMO

Janet

+++++++



Investigators put pressure on Terri Moulton Horman's friends, including DeDe Spicher
Published: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 7:50 PM
Updated: Friday, July 23, 2010, 9:48 AM

Detectives learned that Spicher, who shares Terri Horman's passion for fitness and gardening, was doing gardening work for a Northwest Portland homeowner on June 4. She abruptly left the house about 11:30 a.m. and didn't return until an hour to 90 minutes later.

Another person working at the home called Spicher to come in for lunch, and the homeowner called Spicher on her cell phone but she wasn't reachable. Detectives have questioned both the homeowner and the other person who was working at the home that day.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html

Very interesting and thought provoking post by Puzzled on BOC. 

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/

puzzled says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:32 am
47.Jackie Bauer  says:
December 18, 2010 at 6:18 pm

TH would have to be the dumbest and unluckiest ever for that to be the case, and I can’t make the mental leaps required to explain away *all* of the incongruities/suspicions re: TH behavior, and if this were the case, why would she be so silent?
~~~
I want to make clear that I do not release TH from culpability in the disappearance of Ky. Where my speculation differs is in TH being the mastermind or the one who took Kyron.

I do believe she had enough bad behavior .. thou not necessarily criminal .. that had her husband been aware, he would divorce her in a day. The behavior showed up .. coincidently, and only because her stepson disappeared … and in those first days and weeks she was the only one being considered as the obvious culprit. I know I considered her the obvious culprit.

MCSO .. who was running the show .. had no reason to suspect a serial pedophile. That came from FBI.

By August, local LE knew that TH was not the only one involved. ALL .. and this is important to note .. the evidence and witnesses went before (according to B) 3 GJ, who did not indict .. anyone. This is a critical point. There was no direct evidence to indict TH for the disappearance of KyH. This and the MFH were the only potential crimes of TH that they were tasked with determining if indeed a crime had been committed.

The rest of TH’s behavior becomes fodder for divorce court … still yet to be determined.

In reading the FBI profile, I can tell you that a serial pedophile does not act in collusion with a hoochie mamma, to select his victim. This type of criminal personality is keen on recognizing and taking advantage of vulnerable situations.

TH’s blatent exposure of herself and her family .. in my opinion, and that’s all it is .. is what opened the door for this pedophile.

The choice for this type of pedophile is not specific to the child, but to the “type” of child. The typing of victimology is the signature of the perp.

My best guess as to her public silence is her attorney. If he takes your case, you shut up! Now why would she need this type of attorney? Because was the only one being considered for this crime in the early stages.

My guess is … an attorney of this stature would do a risk assesment analysis of TH … standard practice for many defense attorneys, similar tool used in jury selection … and knew she was not of a personality type for this crime. Remember, his only job is to represent her against criminal charges in the disappearance of KyH. He knows she did not mastermind or take Ky. There are other roles she could have played that could/would result in charges filed. His role would then be to defend or mitigate those charges.

I understand people’s need for the obvious to just be the obvious. Sadly, this type of situation has layers upon layers of activity, that the public is not privy to.

These observations are mine alone … I do not MOO because I’m not a cow.

Just fyi Puzzled gave me the option to post or delete, I would encourage people to read this.
B 

BBM

A lot of people seem to forget about Kurtis. You know, the friend of Kyrons that was invited by Terri the weekend prior. They were suppose to go to the zoo and ended up going bowling. Kurtis stated that he knew Kyron (his lunch buddy) would be out that day because he had a dr.'s appointment. I don't think TH would tell Kyron this. Why would Kyron tell him this if it were not true?

As far as the LDT, we only know what KH, DY, and TY stated, and I believe that to be true because they were there.

One other thing I wanted to ask. Kyron wore a red jacket. Red is a "stand out" color. How was this not noticed? Just a question.

I believe Desiree in regards to the stmts 110%......and that she viewed Kiara and James as her "real" children. I do think IMO there was a time before Kiara was born she did show more genuine affection, and again agree she obviously was way to strict (my daughter would have been in her room the first 2  yrs of school if I had been so hard on her) ::MonkeyNoNo::

I think the lost time as I stated earlier under theory one she met up with the "associate", and IMO it was to retrieve Kyron or pay for the done deed. But, I also think we are just hearing Kaine's side about the punishment in the home (not that I doubt for a second she bugged the crap out of the teacher), but I can't imagine staying with someone who treated my child that way, not for a second. I think that's why alot of people have trouble with some of his stmts, most wouldn't stand for it or the passing out visibly drunk, but IMO moreso on how she punished Kyron, and again I think it's the fact most can't wrap their head around a biological parent seeing that and not realizing there was a major problem at the root that would never go away so why subject your child to that person when you are at work and have no control over what was happening during those hours........or maybe I am just extremely over-protective and my kids will always come before my spouse whether that is right or wrong, also maybe why I have no intention of ever marrying again until all my kids are out of the house, I am just not willing to risk their stability and these type issues, and don't have a problem puttin my life on hold for another 7+ yrs for my child.

 ::rhino::

Obviously LE had not evidence except the landscaper's word that there was a MFH plot or ther would have been no sting operation.

Think about it.  When the landscaper attempted to blackmail Terri during the sting ... she immediately called 911.

This incident makes me think that the landscaper who had a relationship with Terri was attempting to cast a light on Terri that would imply she was capable of harming Kyron.

Could it be that Terri may not have been involved in Kyron disappearance but ... her poor choices in regards to relationship ultimately put her stepson at risk?

Janet

Thanks for bring that over.....I caught that too, and it is telling me the profile I kept asking about if an FBI profile (at least my assumption or Blink would have corrected her) and the "type" of child was just what I was talking about before when I stated the vast majority have a age/gender preference and rarely change that when looking for a victim :smt009 :smt009

You just hit on my other theory....I can see that as she posted soooo much on FB, and IMO wasn't one to keep much of anything private.

Puzzler I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. I believe this was personal, and as I have stated many times, I totally respect blink and her analogies, but that's what they are. I'll agree to disagree with you on this and respect you and everyone else that wants to continue that discussion, but I refuse to partake in it.

If I may ask, can you show me a link where it states that either the FBI or LE have stated this is a pedo abduction. TIA

Gotta go for a bit. Family stuff. BBL  ::MonkeyAngel::

Kyron was not wearing his jacket.  His jacket and backpack were left at the school.

Janet

+++++

Details emerge about the day Kyron Horman turned up missing
Published: Saturday, June 05, 2010, 11:21 PM
Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:02 PM

Instead of taking the bus near his home off Cornelius Pass Road as usual, he hopped into the car with his stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, who drove him to Skyline Elementary School.

They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, "The Red-Eyed Tree Frog."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html


Terri Horman e-mails: 'They are blaming me'
Story Updated: Aug 10, 2010 at 1:09 PM PDT
 
PORTLAND, Ore. - Long before the alleged murder-for-hire plot and sexting affairs, it seems Terri Moulton Horman knew suspicions settled on her, according to e-mails written by Horman and obtained by KATU News.

“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman vanished from Skyline School during a science fair. Investigators say Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron.

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”

<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

I do remember that, it's just another odd piece of the puzzle since the info Janet posted about the teacher looking for him and assuming he was getting water or in the bathroom, or maybe KatGram posted it?? Anyway, why would she assume he was going to be there and looking for him if he had a Dr. appt., so many conflicting stmts.


WRT to the LDT....LE to my knowledge doesn't give that info as IMO especially that early in the case it could effect the investigation, but I do recall them telling them that Terri herself stated she failed. Good point about the jacket being red. I do know it's a stand out color, I have had 8 cars and never been pulled as much as I have in the red car, within 2 weeks of buying it I had been pulled twice and nothing else about my driving had changed ::MonkeyWink::

Taken from the post Puzzler posted from Blink's site.   
(TH’s blatent exposure of herself and her family .. in my opinion, and that’s all it is .. is what opened the door for this pedophile.)  What are we talking about here, her blatent exposure on FB? The company she kept behind Kaine's back?

Your guess is as good as mine.....I also read some comments that alluded to Kyron having been possibly exposed to a perp thru the pumpkin patch, school (wrt family of students ect) or any activity a pedo would attend, and that is anything that attracts kids period. They are stalkers that sometimes become fixed on a subject, and then there are the type that are more of the method I will call opportunist where they see an opportunity to snatch a child and go for it. Again we already know he had to have been exposed to some degree to Kristian unless he never saw the family, but also girls seem to be his "type"....frightening as you just NEVER know what kind of pure evil surrounds your children as SO's come in every type ::MonkeyMad:: ::MonkeyMad::

Could be a great number of people, someone who had his eye on Kyron, but also someone IMO Kyron knew. You never know what evil is around any of us  ::MonkeyNoNo::

::rhino:: ::rhino::

My opinion also, and not necessarily someone that he would be scared of.

I really hate to stack.

BBM
That's what I was trying to say. He left his coat and back pack in the class. Red stands out. That's all I'm trying to say.

Self edit....I need to type slower

OK, I'm going to say this with respect. Kyron being missing at Skyline school, IMO, was personal.

Equate personal with TH and someone she became affiliated with to get rid of Kyron. I don't think this was an out of the blue pedo who just chose Kyron because he was there at that time.

Terri Knew, and knows, what happened to Kyron. She's not keeping her mouth shut and hiring a high priced lawyer because she was in fear of Kaine divorcing her, or that he found out she was doing some slinky business on the side.

She hired a high priced lawyer (which I don't blame her because she'll need it) to protect her from them knowing the truth about what happened to Kyron. JMO

I'm done with this tonight. I have a sick kitty that needs to be pampered. Good night Monkeys.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Sassi...sorry...I didn't infer that "I" think its a pedo abduction...I was infering that the post I brought over was a good one and a thought provoking one. 

What I "do" believe is that we need to look at all things (not just what fits our comfort zone of what we "think" happened), BECAUSE we really do not have many "facts" to go on. 

It was cool and rainy out that day and I've always questioned "why" Kyron didn't have on his coat "if" he knew he was leaving the building to go to the doctor.  The coat and backpack there all day - IMO - is an important point.

ITA Sassi

Agree.  The list was put out for what reason?  Last chance to jog someone's memory; a new name or two that was added to see if someone would come forward....

  Night night, and take care of yourself - and your kitty!  I hope she feels better.   ::HelloKitty::

Hi Puzzler,

With all due respect, I know from volunteering in my kids' classes (K-3) that many kids would choose not to wear their coats if adults didn't make them! :)
Heck, I've seen kids come to school in the middle of winter in shorts and tshirts.  I know I've said this before, and some may disagree, but when I recall that day, I remember it starting off dry and kind of nice, but turning to rain by late afternoon.  (and yes it was raining on and off all week). 

starwynn:   ::MonkeyKiss:: I don't know what's going to happen to him. He isn't doing well. Thank you for your concern.  ::MonkeyAngel::

I agree, but Kyron left his coat and his backpack in the class. His coat is Red. Don't you think that would have stood out?

If he didn't get his coat, to me, I would think that he thought he didn't need it. Not at that time.

One other thing I wanted to ask everyone. If you thought that both KH and DY were using a PR firm or PR people to schedule these interviews, would you think lesser of them? Would it make a difference?

I'm talking about Oprah, Dateline, etc.

Hi Tamikosmom,  I thought I read that Kyron was headed down to the basement which is where the electrical exhibit was.  If so, that is one place we have learned very little about as Sleuthers, eh?

I don't think I have seen mention of a basement even in the school info.  Anyone who knows whether or not there is one it would be most interesting.     

 ::MonkeyReindeer::

I agree red would stand out.  I guess there are too many different possibilities for me to commit to anything, though.  Like: Maybe Ms. Porter thought Kyron would be coming back after the appointment, but by the end of the day she thought the appt had gone longer than expected.  Or: was it the red coat we've seen in the pictures, or possibly a different coat he may have owned?  We just don't know too much.

I don't know.  That seems a little strange.  But they are still the parents of a missing little boy, and as far as I can tell they have nothing to do with it, so I guess I wouldn't condemn them for it.  Do you know something?

Also, it seems like that might be the only way to deal w/ Oprah/Dateline/etc and if they want to get his name out there, I think they would do whatever they needed to do.

I don't think so to be honest, IMO they need to keep his face out there at all cost ......but I'd keep the mudslinging out of the interviews and make pleas to whomever has Kyron and speak directly to him.