Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

I loved all of the pics to end the last thread. I hope and pray before this thread hits 50 pages, Kyron has been found and returned home.  ::MonkeyAngel::

A post on BOC. Looks like we'll have an update tomorrow afternoon on the sightings.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-14/#comment-1663053 (http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-14/#comment-1663053)

Madilu says:
February 8, 2011 at 12:02 am

I have to say, I thought this issue was cleared up long ago by a comment on here that I responded to, so I task myself to find it as we speak.

I believe we are talking about 2 different sightings, and If I need to dilineate them in the article, I most certainly will.

B
**********************************************
I must have missed your comment too. Delineation would be very helpful. Thank you very much.

******************************************************************
Idahogal says:
February 7, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Blink, is this the other sighting you were referring to?
From June 7, 2010

David Vaughan said he was driving toward Portland when a pickup truck turned in front of him onto Salmon Berry Road in western Washington County. Vaughan said he slammed his brakes to avoid a collision with the gray or black truck.
Here is a link with the article and video:

http://www.kptv.com/news/23824427/detail.html

THIS Salmonberry Road* is off of Hwy. 26 in the Tillamook Forest of the Coast Range Mountains. It is not far from the coast, and leads up to the Salmonberry River that was featured in MD’s video. It is a long drive on dirt roads into the mountains. I’m NOT trying to tie this sighting to MD or DAD, just asking if this is the other sighting that is getting confused with the Chas sighting.

*I state this because there is also a Salmonberry Road in Mt. Hood Village which is East of Portland off of Hwy. 26.
————————–
I believe so if that is the gentleman who believes he heard gunshots and the man disappearing into the woods?
B

There were 3 reported sightings that are being confused, imo:
1) Chas -saw woman in white truck turning onto Hwy 30 north of NW Logie Trail, he later realized was TH
2) David Vaughan -west of PDX (NOT Mt. Hood area) -saw truck and boy resembling Ky
3) Mr. Mark DeWitt -1.5 hrs south of PDX on June 9th truck, car, boy, women carrying shovels, heard a sound like a gunshot coming from the directions of the woods

Madilu, I do believe you are correct. I am on location today, I will try to update the piece, referencing all 3 individually by tomorrow afternoon.

I sincerely appreciate it when a reader takes the time to call me out respectfully, and then when I miss your point, you are kind enough to help me with the information I need to correct it.

Your a class act Madilu. Not one of those classless a-wads that sit around all day talking behind one’s blog, lol.

Thank you.
B

Well, I've taken a few days to just relax and think about Kyron. I've decided I'm not going to pursue the DAD theory. I just don't see a tie. A lot of coincidences yes, but otherwise, I just don't get how he could be tied in. It's Oregon, everyone is a landscaper, and most Oregonians hang out in the forests, are heavily into gardening, or camp by the rivers. It doesn't mean they are associated with Kyron going missing. Anyone could be a suspect if you live in Oregon with those likes and dislikes. This may come back and bite me in the azz, but for now I feel comfortable with moving on.

I've decided to start and look at the LE search locations, and how they relate to people that are associated with that area and the Horman family. I've noticed there are quite a few home businesses up there, just like SI, like Christmas tree businesses, etc.

Yes, I'm being independent right now, but that's because everything else out there is just not making sense to me. I've had the tendency when someone mentions a potential POI, I have to dig until I can't dig anymore. This often leads me to areas that don't make sense to me but I check it out, just in case.

The current search area is also Scappoose area, specifically, the Rocky point and Dixie Mountain. There are ties to there that relate to TH, and that's where I'm heading. Personally, I think the most believable account on June 4th, was Jim Kelley's.

I still feel that there are two scenarios going on. The MFH plot, and the person(s) that made Kyron go poof on that cool damp day, June 4th, 2010 at Skyline School.

For a passerby, Dewitt seems to have a lot of detail which makes me wonder about his sighting.
Also, if he was just driving by, how could he have heard a gun shot if he were driving away from the area? 

 ::HelloKitty::

That Dewitt sighting was rally taken apart the the monkeys on here and debunked.

If someone is interested and a better researcher than me, maybe those posts could be brought back and examined.

Hellokitty!

I believe it, Dewitt's account seems kinda funky.

Been out of the loop somewhat, but back now. 

Sassifrass, ITA with you on many points.  Many of the coincidences wrt DAD are things that could apply to many Oregonians.  It seems like everyone is a landscaper these days!  I don't know what to think.  It does seem like DAD is running from something other than the shooting of the officer in Lincoln City.  But that could easily be something separate from Kyron.  I just don't know what to think, so I will keep checking and waiting for more info...

I also agree that Jim Kelley's account seems to fit the latest searches.

 ::HelloKitty::

Interesting on the Jim Kelley idea.  I really  believe him because he lives on a road where the people would notice something like that.

How do you think this all fits in though?

I wouldn't say it was debunked, I don't feel it was anyway. I think people said it didn't make sense for the same reason that MK just said, couldn't understand how he could see it all. I spent some time going up and down that road on Google maps. That area is open and not closed off by trees. I think if he slowed down he could have caught it all. As for the gun shot, he says he was stopped at that point just a bit away. In an open area like that, I think it is possible to hear a gun shot.

I actually don't discount any of the supposed witness sightings that have been written about. 

http://www.terrihorman.com/2010/08/tipline-ignoring-tips.html

 ::snipping2::

UPDATE: Lt. Mary Lindstrand, spokeswoman for the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office, says a detective from an outside agency followed up on the tip “some time ago” and determined it wasn’t relevant to the investigation.

 ::snipping2::

Thank you for posting this update. I still say, unless we have LE saying it is a false sighting, as it appears we have here, then we cannot possibly say something didn't happen or it was a false sighting or just discount something because it doesn't fit with what we believe to be true. WE don't have enough information to discount anything.

I wonder though how they determined this tip was not relevant? They don't know where Kyron was or if anyone had him on June 9th so how could they determine it was not Kyron? Did they find who it was? Was it that it didn't fit with what they believed happened, or was it that it was so far away from Portland? Or???

Sass, I think for me I have not come to any conclusions. I think it is possible he is connected, then maybe there is just a string of coincidences that just are coincidences. I just wish they would find him already so at least these questions will be answered.

Sass, sorry I hit post too soon. You say that Jim Kellys account is of the most interest to you. That sighting goes against Terri having Kyron as Terri was at home both times the woman was sighted sitting in the truck. I know many people think DeDe was in the truck, but wasn't dede at the farm at 3 that afternoon? In my opinion she looks nothing like Terri, but then again there is also the possibility of the suggestion of Terri could sway someones opinion.  So who do you suppose was sitting in the truck at 3PM on June 4th and at 2AM on the 5th? Do you think this could be the same woman the rancher says he saw on June 4th who was sitting in a white truck?

I still have not come to any conclusions about Durham either.  To me, the coincidences have sort of begun to pile up.  That's noteworthy. 

It's like you can't quite put your finger on it, but in the back of the mind is a nagging to keep looking at it.  So, I'm still open to continue looking at it for a while.

I have a lot of questions and theories, but will wait to see how things develop.  I think there's possibilities here.

Durham's been on the lam for 17 days now and there's nothing in the news about him the past couple of days.  There's a "Federal" warrant out for him, so this is no small matter....yet, we're not hearing anything.  That's bothersome. 

It's so sad that there's no positive news from the new searches started two weekends ago.  They finished searching 7 of the 11 spots designated for search.  I don't even know if they continued on during the week to finish those 4 remaining searches.

LE seemed so confident going into these searches...Desiree and Kaine had been waiting since before Thanksgiving for these searches to happen....

(snipped)  "Staton last week said he doesn't intend to seek additional funds, and plans to go before the board of commissioners sometime in late February to give a status report on whether or not the task force will continue its full-time work."  (snipped)

 http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/search_for_kyron_horman_resume.html

BBM - doesn't intend to seek additional funds - what does that mean to Kyron's case?




 

Hey MK, glad you are back!  If you will go back and look at the whole article posted about this it says I do believe(please go look for sure)that the store where he was going was right past the road where the car turned down and by the time he parked and got out he heard a gun shot from that very direction.  I'm guessing you could googlemap and see what business is just past that road turned into by the car in question with the "little boy" in it.  If area never searched then how could this be debunked?  Oh, wait, TH was suspect from day one and they need to look no further!

 ::HelloKitty::

I imagine that Tony Young who is LE would be interested in this whole case and if anything was of worth, he wouldn't want LE stuck on a false trail.

Morn' HelloKitty...I do believe that TH did have her hand in Ky's disappearance but  not totally guilty.  Could be but I just think that LE believed they knew what happened from the get go and didn't really give other avenues much of a chance.  I dunno anymore.  Too many other things have come into play and could be a part of the investigation now that just didn't fit in the begininning.  Hell, what LE really knows could be something totally different than we ever knew.  I just want some answers, not all, just some assurance that they know what they are doing or where they are going!

Hey TG.

No, I don't think it was Dede in the truck on JK's road. I however, do think that Dede has knowledge of information that TH may or may not have shared with her. The woman refused to take a lie detector test. Why is that? All or any information that she shared with LE could be bogus, for all I know. If you're innocent of having any connection or information wrt Kyron going missing, WHY won't she take the test? She just plain pisses me off. A child is missing. Do what ever it takes to help find him.

As far as TH in the truck that day, it is a possibility, but not probable. I don't know who it was, but I sure would like to know. The Kyron case had a lot of press in Oregon. You would think that if the sighting of the woman in the white truck was just a coincidence because of the day, that person would come forward and say something like, "hey, that was me on that road. I was lost so I went down that road to look at a map."

TG, or anyone,  do we know what time the rancher saw the white truck with a woman in it?

Puzzler: I think it means that they already believe that Kyron has passed on and right now they are looking for ANY kind of evidence that will bring closure for DY and KH, and bring justice for Kyron.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/kyron_horman_search_starts_wit.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/kyron_horman_search_starts_wit.html)

<snipped>

As searchers combed the land, they looked for any remains or for any clues that could lead to the lost boy.

<snipped>

Gustafson said at this point, search efforts are not time-sensitive. But the desire for closure isn't going away.

"We want to solve this case," he said.

 ::HelloKitty::

I have been meditating on these things and I hope the monkeys have some more insight than I do.

What does it mean that it is not time sensitive?  I thought perhaps if it was remains, then there is no rush.  But I don't want to go into that on here, but that issue seems time sensitive as well.

Is the perp dead, so that is why it is not time sensitive?  The evidence that they are looking for?  But wouldn't the parents like to know what has happened?  I cannot think of anything.

As far as Dede not taking a lie detector test, what sense does that make?  Really, if she passed, then people would feel much more positively towards her just as people feel fine about the other people who took like detector tests and passed.  She could get on with her life.

If she did not pass, she would be in the very same position that she is in now.  She is thought of as guilty and her life probably has been hugely impacted. Her choice. 

I think that's what they seem to be thinking, HelloKitty - and as it has been a year, any damage done to the remains will have already had two full wet seasons and a summer to degrade them - so there's no rush on that, either.  Sorry to be so blunt - this is the ugliness that a possibly murder creates, and I still pray that somehow Kyron is alive.  If I were Dede, and I were innocent, I would have no problems taking that test.  But maybe she's heard all that we've all heard about how you can fail the test but it won't mean anything really.  However, the word gets out that she's failed and instead of just having a hunch that she's guilty, people will feel that it's proof - whether or not it is.

Poor Kyron.  I keep wondering - if he is found, what has he been through?  Is it awful for me to wish that he's alive, for my own selfishness, and in essence be wishing that he went through so much that he may be scarred for the rest of his life?  Is it more kind to hope that he's passed on, or just horrible?  This little boy brings me so many mixed feelings and hopes, and I wish we could turn back time and find him alive on day 1!

Sass the ranchers sighting time was not said but there was a clue in that interview. The reporter began talking about the other person that came up to her that lives in that area and told her he saw a woman get out of a truck and start walking down a path, the reporter said that was shortly after Kyron went missing. My take was it was in the morning but it is just my opinion.

I wish I knew what they really mean by not being in a rush. I would hope that if they believed him to be buried out there, they would rush there to get him.

I think DeDe it's pretty simple to figure out why DeDe didn't take a lie detector test:

She saw what it did for Terri and, if she thinks Terri is innocent, then DeDe saw how a lie detector test could give a bad impression.
She has a father in LE and I believe he would have told her to not take a lie detector test.
We all know that lie detector tests are not even allowed in a court of law because they're "unreliable".
LDT is a tool that LE uses - a "flawed" tool.  We all know that.  They put a guilt trip on you if you don't take it.  Guess what? Some people take it - lie - and the test comes up as not lying.  It's not "reliable".
No one is required under our laws to take a LDT, because it can give false readings, even if the person is telling the truth.
Why should anyone be pointed out as being guilty because they choose not to take a test that's not even recognized by our laws?

Sassi - TY

Well, to me, if Stanton isn't going to request any more money, then he isn't planning for much of anything wrt Kyron in the future.  He's winding down his investigation.  He even says he's going to make a determination as to whether to even continue the Task Force "full-time".  I think he's spent 4 months with a Task Force "focused" intensely on Kyron's case, running down leads and crossing them off the list. 

I would like to hope that he plans on arrests, etc. by the end of February, but that hope is dashed by his words that he will determine whether to carry on with he Task Force at "full-time" or not....meaning....nothing's settled yet.  There is no end in sight...so much so that he's thinking of pulling back on the Task Force's time.

That, along with not asking for any more money, speaks volumes to me.  Not good.  I sure hope I'm proven to be wrong.

 ::HelloKitty::

Oh I get the thing about the lie detector test.

However, if I was innocent, and I would be , I would take a thousand lie detector tests .

Look at Dede.  Do you think her life is pleasant? 

Does she have a job?  What is it like for her to go out in public? 

Sure, some people will think she is innocent and some people will think she should not take the LDT.

but how many people give her ugly vibes ?  How many people are truly comfortable with her ?  How many people are analyzing every little thing she does and conversations that she has had? How many people pull their children out of sight when they come into contact with her?

Apparently if she is innocent, that way of life does not impact her.  It must be OK with her.

DSfor DF-Different Strokes for Different Folks

I am a believer in the credibility of the sighting by Jim Kelely and his neighbour.

Jim Kelley does not identify or describe the "female" driver.

Considering Kaine places Terri at home at 3:00 PM on the afternoon of June 4th ... I speculate that the driver may have been DeDe.

Janet

++++++

Two Witnesses - Same Sighting

Day 3: FBI calls in criminal profiler in search for missing Skyline boy; interviews with students and parents begin
Published: Sunday, June 06, 2010, 2:14 PM
Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:01 PM

<snipped>

1:29 p.m. -- Neighbors stop by Brooks Hill Historic church, across the street from the school, to mull over the investigation. "This kind of thing is unheard of," says Jim Kelley, 50.

Kelley, who lives about a mile and a half down hill, at the end of a winding, secluded country lane off Cornelius Pass, said police, federal agents, K-9 teams and helicopters scoured the area Saturday.

"We had two odd sightings of a vehicle on our road Friday," Kelley said. Around 3 p.m, he and a neighbor reported seeing a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the long road, idle and then turn around. Then again at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, a similar white pickup truck appeared, idled and when a neighbor loosed her dogs, eased away.

"A, it was strange to have a car there, any car there, that we didn't know, and B, it was strange to have a vehicle come down our dead-end road twice in the same day, hours after a little boy goes missing," said Kelley. "That's beyond rare."

Kelley said authorities have twice searched the deep ravine, creek and railroad tracks located near the end of his street by air and on foot.

<snipped>

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun

I did not say she shoud or shouldn't take the test.  I point out simple reasons why she might make the choice not to take the test...and...I forgot one: I'm sure her attorney would tell her not to take the test.

What you or I would do, is not necessarily what the next person would/should do.  What you or I would do and another person doesn't do, IMO, does not make that person automatically in the wrong.  We're not in that person's shoes and, as much as we'd like to think we do...we don't know a fraction of what's going on behind the scenes.  There could be a number of reasons that would factor in on someone's decision not to take the LDT.   

Can someone jar my memory as to how we know Dede refused to take a lie detector test? Who said that again?

Janet do you have anything that states where Dede was at 3 that day? Was she at the farm or was she off of work?

I am not sure if I would take a lie detector test, it concerns me they can be wrong.

TG - I found this

http://www.cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1008/23/ijvm.01.html

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Will Terri Horman`s Friend Testify?; Fantasia Tries to Commit Suicide

Aired August 23, 2010 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLOS DIAZ, HOST (voice-over): Tonight disturbing new developments in the desperate search for Kyron Horman. Are the walls finally closing in on his step-mom? New reports now say Terri Horman`s best friend is refusing to take a polygraph. Does she know what happened to this cute little boy? Does she have something to hide?

 ::snipping2::

I have a list of things that make me suspicious of DeDe with or without the lie detector test. Her absence those hours on the day that Kyron went missing. The smug smug look on her face after the Grand Jury. The fact that she appears to still have a friendship with Terri. The fact that she stayed with Terri for all of those days after Kyron went missing and did not bolt. Let's face it, most NORMAL people would have run for the hills viewing Terri's behavior after her step-son went missing. The sexting etc. From what we have read, DeDe was present for that bizarre behavior. It did not occur to DeDe that Terri was not acting NORMAL? DeDe is either a complete idiot who idolizes the ground that the red squirrel walks on or she was involved to some degree.

I wonder who the nutwhack is that made this video and why they call DAD "Colonel"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxY7_jHOb1E

 ::HelloKitty::

I think the person made the video because DAD shot LE. 

IA, she's left to many questions in my mind to give her a pass at this point.   

A little something about Kyron...not much...but from Texas...basically just shows that people from all over are following the case:

San Antonio supporter of "Missing Kyron Horman" opens up about case

http://www.examiner.com/support-groups-in-san-antonio/san-antonio-resident-opens-up-about-kyron-horman-case

i found another statement by jim kelley,i had not heard b4, near the end of the article
it has some links too,and other info i dont remember reading,does anyone remember when
kelley statement about seeing the truck,was first out

"It's strange how the child just seems to have simply vanished," said Jim Kelley, who lives near the school.
"It's a parent's worst nightmare. It's unthinkable."

POSTED: 6:50 am PDT June 7, 2010
UPDATED: 2:59 pm PDT June 10, 2010
http://www.kptv.com/news/23816333/detail.html

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/168397_1792531209758_1133993561_2004012_5379812_n.jpg)

Has anyone seen this photobucket before? It's creeping me out! Read some of the captions underneath the photo's.

http://s804.photobucket.com/albums/yy325/kyronhorman/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20 (http://s804.photobucket.com/albums/yy325/kyronhorman/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20)

The more I look at it, the more I think it's the same Kook that posted those UTube videos.

Sass who are the people with the little boy that looks like Kyron? I am confused.

I have no idea.

Thanks Klaas so it was reported by a source is that what it seems? Did her lawyer comment on it or did LE say she refused the poly? I am not doubting it, as it is her right to not take one, i am just curious as to how we know she refused to take one.

What do you think they are trying to say with the pics? Seems they are trying to connect something but I am missing their point.

Sass - I agree.  These are some of the photos the weird Youtube guy used. 

Actually, I am positive it's the same person.  Here are his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8UAFf5l53k&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Do we know who this person is? I never have understood the pics of trucks and people found on Google street maps. Strange.

 ::HelloKitty::

I think that those phtots are just another nut inserting her/himself into the case. Yup, the same as the utube unless someone has taken the utube photos.

Too many liars pretending that they know something in this case, I feel.

Some journalist should write about all of the people doing this kind of thing and tell us why they do it.  Some kind of undiagnosed new condition to go into the DMSV or whatever letters it is.

Fake info for child abduction case syndrome.

I think it was sleuthed on here as Caroline Carty, is it?  She clans that she wrote Foot Prints in the
Sand. There is a whole section on sleuthing  her on here somewhere.

I agree, another nut and this was way back in August 2010 so I'm certain that LE is well aware of it by now.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/02/searchers_scour_wooded_area_near_waldport_for_david_durham.html

Searchers scour wooded area near Waldport for David Durham
Published: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 2:54 PM     Updated: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 3:32 PM

WALDPORT - Three canine units from Tillamook and Marion Counties scoured about two miles of heavy wooded brush in the Bayshore neighborhood Thursday in search of clues to the whereabouts of David Durham, but again came up empty handed.

The officers and dogs looked for evidence of some place Durham might have been or anything he might have dropped, said Senior Deputy Bruce McGuire.  "Nothing turned up and nothing gave us reason to think we should look for something else," he said.

Durham is accused of shooting Lincoln City officer Steve Dodds on the night of Jan. 23 after Dodds stopped him just south of Lincoln City for speeding. Durham was last seen in Bayshore after a spike strip disabled his SUV and he fled on foot. Dodds' condition was upgraded Wednesday from serious to fair.
 ::snipping2::

Klaas - TY.  Good to hear something is happening.

<snipped from above article>

Any option we can think of is on the books because we don't have him," said Palmer. "Anything could have happened. He could have gone out with any of the outgoing tides. He could have gotten up in the woods and killed himself, or died of exposure. He could be working his way through empty houses. Maybe he got help. It is really difficult to know for sure until we find him dead or alive."

Local police officials have appealed to America's Most Wanted to run a feature on Durham.

"If we get it out, especially this being a tourist area, someone from down south or back east may have been here and seen something and it didn't click until they see this (the show)."

Look at this cute picture Kyron; I've never seen it before.

http://photos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/06/kyron_horman_58.html

Awww, that is a cute picture of sweet Kyron, Puzzler! Seeing it just breaks my heart. Where is Kyron?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I just love that little face. He's so cute!  ::MonkeyAngel::


(http://media.oregonlive.com/oregonian/photo/8670977-standard.jpg)

if she makes that claim, she is someone looking for trouble
http://www.footprints-inthe-sand.com/index.php?page=Main.php

my Gmom had a copy of that poem framed in the hall,the earliest i can remember it was 1960
everyone said it had hung there for years,my uncle K had picked it up someplace after ww2
and gave it to his mom

I wonder what point the youtube lady was trying to make?  She alluded to two different things I can remember...one was the pond out back of one of the stores TH claimed to be at and then the pedo references of a Dr. Death who lives way out where TH pinged where there were children used and then dead on the same property.  She actually showed a home and claimed it to be the one if I am not mistaken.  I think the said if you look hard enough you could see children hanging in the trees!  Nut alert, but what if?  There have been people like that and although I don't believe she has knowledge about anything to do with Ky what if it was just a way to let someone know about some eveil pedo?  Okay, I just read my own post and am sure she's a nut and I did what she wanted, talking about her and her way out there theories!!!! lol

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/KH.jpg)

Oh my goodness Brandi! How cute!! I just want to kiss that little face! Thanks Brandi!  ::MonkeyKiss::

Every time I see his face, makes me want to fight even harder in finding this sweet boy.

Klaas: Do by any chance have the August 12th press conference video with Captain Gates in your photobucket? It went poof at the Oregonian website.

I am not connecting how we know the maker of the video's and the photobucket is this Carolyn lady, So I don't have to look back can someone please just post how we know this?

I don't know the story supposedly goes that she finished what her aunt had started. There are a few people who have claimed to have written this, seems sort of strange to me to take credit for something that has to do with a message from God, seems you would need to be careful in a thunder storm. Yikes!

I'll check

I have it, but don't know how to get it to you

Aug 11?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLxcwjY8now

No easy way unless it's in photobucket, flickr or Youtube or some other online site.  Often a video like that is too large for emailing, even zipped.

O/T: There are quite a few places that will host your file for someone else to download. (Even up to a 5 GB file.) Google for file host and you'll find them ;-)

Thanks!

try this one,not sure how long it stays up,just fetch the link and post it,then it can be downloaded
http://www.fileswap.com/

One more question. Does anyone know how many exit doors (not just the public ones) that are at skyline, and where they are?

I've been looking into something and I have some thoughts and ideas/feelings. I found some things out but I need to put it all together.

I know the floor plans are here somewhere (I remember TracyGirl was all over it:) but for speed here is a photobucket floorplan of the basement.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view&current=BasementFPofSkylineSchool.jpg

sassi i have these

 ::HelloKitty::

Sassi I hope you will share what you come up with.  Your ideas are always so interesting.

Thank you! I knew they were some place!

Absolutely HK. I wouldn't hold out on the Monkeys.I may not be able to post it until Sunday (tomorrow is grocery shopping day) because I have to put it down in a txt file first, to organize it. I'm pretty excited about it though. It ties in with the last search area too.

Let me know if you still need my version.  I have it ready for upload, but I think the youtube version that Klaas pointed out is the same.

My take on the LDT issue is that if you are innocent, you really don't have anything to lose by taking the lie detector test. If you refuse, it looks like you have something to hide; if you take it and it comes back fail or inconclusive, you're no worse off than if you refused because the LDT has no legal value. However, if you are innocent and you pass, LE may use this tool to stop wasting their resources on you and tend to shift there focus elsewhere, narrowing their list of hinky people.
If, on the other hand, you are involved in the kidnapping up to your eyeballs, you'd worry that your response to certain questions could point LE in the right direction.

That's how I see it too.

Anyone who cares about Kyron and had nothing to do with his disappearance should be willing to take it, IMO.

O/T: scatty: a Valentine post for you here: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4314.msg1283617#msg1283617

I totally agree! If Terri and or Dee Dee truly cared about Kyron, they would want to take the lie detector tests to get eliminated. That way LE could put their time and resources elsewhere. When are they going to be arrested already? Tick Tock!

Officer shot by suspect upgraded to fair condition.

http://www.kval.com/news/local/115927754.html

Picture of DAD's house on Sauvie Island - pic #9

See also, pic #8 - LEO Dobbs (officer who got shot) accepting an award - does Dobbs have reddish hair?

http://www.kgw.com/news/slideshows/Photos-Lincoln-City-police-shooting-114589564.html?gallery=y&img=8&c=y#gallery-image

How do we know she didn't take a lie detector? I know it was written in an article, are we sure she didn't?

Do we know what street this house is on?

Well, here's the street address, but I don't know what city it's called:

Durham's address is 24510 NW Sauvie Island Road.

http://www.thechronicleonline.com/news/local_news/article_38ff104a-289f-11e0-bccb-001cc4c03286.html

Just playing devils advocate. If this is true, then what about Terri, she took a few supposedly?

My take on Dede, I think she was acting like a rebellious teenager. I dont think she had anything to do with this. I think she was stepping in to help who she felt was being wrongly accused and LE focused on her for it. I think she refused to take the LE because again, she was being rebellious and didn't want to do what was being asked of her because she was mad at LE. Kyron got lost in the whole thing sadly. I wish she would have just taken the damn thing because I think it is nothing more then a distraction.

CW you posted a quote from Jim Kelly that said something different then I recall reading, perhaps I did but it didn't stick in my mind. Does he have a child at skyline? Why was he at the school or being questioned?

Thank you!

Hi Tracygirl!
If Dee Dee did take a lie detector, it seems to me that she would make darn sure that it was blabbed all over the net. I have had a hinky feeling about Dee Dee for a long time. I have been wrong before, could be wrong this time.

Sorry, I messed up the above quote box  ::snipping2::

 ::HelloKitty::

Re Jim Kelley. 

I don't think he has a child at the school.  I think he called in the tip because it was very very strange and it was close to all of the possible action.

This is the press report on it...This is day 3 of the search. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html

1:29 p.m. -- Neighbors stop by Brooks Hill Historic church, across the street from the school, to mull over the investigation. "This kind of thing is unheard of," says Jim Kelley, 50.

Kelley, who lives about a mile and a half down hill, at the end of a winding, secluded country lane off Cornelius Pass, said police, federal agents, K-9 teams and helicopters scoured the area Saturday.

"We had two odd sightings of a vehicle on our road Friday," Kelley said. Around 3 p.m., he and a neighbor reported seeing a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the long road, idle and then turn around. Then again at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, a similar white pickup truck appeared, idled and when a neighbor loosed her dogs, eased away.

"A, it was strange to have a car there, any car there, that we didn't know, and B, it was strange to have a vehicle come down our dead-end road twice in the same day, hours after a little boy goes missing," said Kelley. "That's beyond rare."

Kelley said authorities have twice searched the deep ravine, creek and railroad tracks located near the end of his street by air and on foot.

 Sebastian, I respect your feeling but I just don't think she was involved in the crime.

This might tell us something.  DeDe hired a "personal injury lawyer"; not a criminal attorney.

YW - I believe this is the rest of the address:  Portland OR 97231

Here is the million dollar question about the Jim Kelly sighting, who was in the truck that Jim Kelly saw at about 3 that day and at 2AM on June 5th?

I don't think it was Terri and I don't think it was Dede, so who was it and does it have anything to do with this case.

 ::HelloKitty::

I wonder why the person wouldn't come forward and say the she was the one on the Kelly road?

At least it would put an end to that speculation about anything to do with Kyron.

Do we really know that someone did NOT contact LE and said they were driving on that road at those times? I do remember LE saying early on that various sightings of Kyron and (I believe) vehicles, had been checked out and cleared. I know they said it about the man who said he thought he saw Kyron in a truck looking confused or something, after a near accident (who wouldn't?)

Le has been so silent, I don't take for granted anything in this case, as far as what has or hasn't been checked and ruled out.

I also think Dede is not involved in the crime, and if she knows anything, she learned it later on while staying with Terri. I know I would have been the type of friend who agreed to stay with TH and I also wouldn't want LE to listen to my conversations, but that's just me.

But just an opinion, obviously, she could well end up being charged, at least as accessory. Or it is possible neither of them will be charged.

I think Kyron really needs to be found, no matter what they say.

I don't know, perhaps she didn't hear of the case or maybe she did come forward and we haven't heard of it? Lets face it, we are not being bombarded with information in this case. We really don't know that many facts and most of what we talk about is based on speculation, theory and secret sources.

Hey I was polking around some of the old posts trying to find some information. I came across a couple of postings from Rob, where is he anyway?

Hey Rob if you are reading this you are missed! I hope you post again, I always enjoy reading your opinions!

I guess we don't really know for sure. It's possible she may have taken one after the article was written, but we wouldn't know about it because LE or her lawyer or DeDe haven't said. But after TJ's allegations about her refusing the LDT, she probably would have definitely gotten that message out somehow, via her friend who relayed her messages on various forums, IMO.

Yeah, and after following the Caylee Anthony case with Florida's Sunshine laws, this case is sheer torture!

 ::HelloKitty::

If Dede took the LDT and passed, we would know.  Let's  not forget, she was in People magazine so she is not shy.

She is living under a huge cloud of suspicion.  This affects her every second of life.  Whispers, stares , shuns.  No one would put up with that if they could clear their name.

don't forget about the woman who was all over the news and spent hours with LE.  Does anyone talk about her?  No----she passed an LDT so people are done with her. She was in the thick of it with TH as well. I don't mean as doing anything with Kyron.  I mean the bat phones and coming to help TH out.

If people do not know who she is, I do not want to put her name out here.  She was sleuthed a  lot on this site so the info is there.

Can some kind Monkey remind me what classroom number Kyron was in please? Thanks!

JMO from her actions, I believe that DeDe loves ANY KIND of attention. Doesn't matter if it is negative...as long as she gets it.  Case in point per her friend's postings on SM: when they knew LE was listening they made a game of it.  I believe DeDe and TH are two of a kind...ME ME ME, even at the expense of a child's life.

 ::HelloKitty::

But don't you think that Dede would like to have a fun life?  Like go where you want, do what you want?  Not be whispered about as being evil and not welcome in certain situations?

And I bet TH would rather be out roaming  instead of stuck at her parents.

There are reasons for these actions and they don't have anything to do with attention-negative or positive, IMO.

A bit O/T

I tried to get the post together before I had to do RL stuff today, but I haven't finished it. I'll make a concerted effort to post it by tomorrow, for Kyron.

Just a FYI and FWIW, I have become totally burnt out these last few weeks/months digging stuff up. I just can't keep doing this. After tomorrows post, I'm going to take a break. There are plenty of Monkeys here to follow up and continue searching for justice for Kyron. I just can't do it any more.

I'll finish with what I have and post it tomorrow some time.  ::MonkeyAngel::

sassi i want to say clr 203,but im not absolutely pos on that

floor plans
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9317.msg1303451#msg1303451

 ::HelloKitty::

It's on here somewhere, but I think it's 215 or 213.  But I don't know either!

From here: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8203.0

Blonde's post: (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/user178_pic3754_1277587645.jpg)

another post: (http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/floorplanofSkylinecropped.jpg)

So my guess is 201 or 203.

Sassifrass:

It was Mrs. Porter's classroom if that helps:

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image38-1.png)

Thanks Brandi, but I'm still confused. I'm not trying to be dense. I read the below link and it's not making sense to me, if I look at the compass map too. I have to go out for a few hours, but I'll be back.

http://prairiechicken.blogspot.com/2010/06/pondering-disappearance-of-kyron-horman.html
 (http://prairiechicken.blogspot.com/2010/06/pondering-disappearance-of-kyron-horman.html)
Nora Schreiber, a Skyline parent and volunteer, said the school has three main entrances and one secure exit. Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

 ::HelloKitty::

here is a link to a timeline and a map that indicates Kyron's classroom which appears to be perhaps room 213?  I know the monkey s discussed it in great length on here, so maybe someone with better skills can find it?


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/KH/khtimeline.pdf

I think Kyrons room is 217, that is the north end of the school...I have read there is a door near Kyrons room that leads out to the back end of the school. You can see the stairs on the map. I think it would be considered a fire exit.

 ::HelloKitty::

Yup, Tracey.  I think it could be that room as well.

Here is another post that indicates it may be 213

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5337818&postcount=88

Thanks Sassi for all the research you've done. I hope your break from this thread provides you a chance to refresh and recuperate.  ::MonkeyAngel::

I think it is anyone's guess but according to what I have read, his classroom is on the north end of the building, near stairs that lead outside to the back parking lot which to me when I am looking at the map is rm 217. Rm 213 does not have stairs leading to that floor, the stairs you see I believe lead to the basement/first floor, plus if you look at the compass, rm 213 is on the south side of the building not the north.

Again, I think it is something that has not been said outright and we are all just giving it our best guess. I could be wrong, who knows. There is a pic of the stairs on the side of the building. Let me go double check if I am remembering correctly. 

Scatty - you picked the perfect word for this case "torture"!  Yes, the Florida Sunshine Laws have made a difference.

Not sure of the classroom number but here is a slide show of the classroom itself:

http://www.kptv.com/slideshow/kyron-horman/23806039/detail.html

My best recollection was that Kyron's classroom had stairs right outside of it that led outside at the back of the school - at one end.

http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/ (http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/)

Above is a link to pics I have spent a long time studying to gain a perspective of the school. Starting on pic 12 there are some great pics on that side of the school.

http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/?action=view&current=SkylineSchool015.jpg#!oZZ27QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs780.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy81%2Fgwenabob%2FSkyline%2520School%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DSkylineSchool028.jpg

This would be a pic of room 213's windows over looking the front of the school

Sorry why can't I get the picture link to post right? I need pic 27 not 15. sometimes computers makes my life harder. Anyway, pic #27 is a pic of room 213

This is 27

(http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/SkylineSchool028.jpg)


This is 15

(http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/SkylineSchool015.jpg)

I would like to point out that these photos taken by the local are taken some time after Kyron went missing and after school is out for the summer.  The grass and growth around the school is likely to have grown up more than it would have been when Kyron was in school. 

 ::HelloKitty::

does this help?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/relmeka/kyron/floorplanofSkylinecropped.jpg

Found this there☝

So cute; Kyron's penmanship:

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image60.png)

 ::HelloKitty::

a million pictures if someone is interested

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Kyron%20Horman%20%20-OR-/

The Skyline Handbook (pg 17) indicates that Ms. Porter's classroom is 213.

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Parentand_StudentHandbook_2010-11.pdf

 ::HelloKitty::

this is gross, but may be of interest

Here are factors assisting SAR’s decision on where to search for a disposal site of a victim.

From - Detection of Body Dump Sites and Clandestine Burials: a GIS -Based Landscape Approach by Hector A. Orengo

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...Mmppr0YovkcE_Q

"1) Carrying of a corpse will necessarily require the use of a covered, motorized vehicle to the vicinity of the dump site. It has been commonly asserted that the majority of corpses have been found in close proximity to roads or parking areas (Streed 1989, in Killam 2004:17). Therefore, a search following the road network will have many more probabilities of success than a normal extensive search (Rossmo 2000:130).
2) Due to physical limitations, the usual distance covered dragging a body is about 50 ft on plain terrain (McLaughlin 1974:28, Morse et al. 1983:6). Keppel and Birnes (1995) have estimated the maximum distance to carry a body to 150 ft, even though, they agree with the 50 ft estimate as the usual distance. Following Burton (1998), Rossmo (2000:130) states that child bodies, being much lighter, can be carried for 200 ft. Of course, this will vary depending with the slope, kind of terrain, vegetation, and other factors. Effectively, 90% of the bodies are recovered downhill because it is easier for the offender to drag the victim (Sacks 1999; Hunter 1996b:92; Robbins 1977; Cherry and Angel 1977). The fact that from the road the visibility downhill is poor can be equally important regarding the offender’s choice of going downhill.
3) Terrain slope can be also very important when the body is buried: an excessive slope will render difficult the process of digging a grave.
4) As Killam (2004:17), following Streed (1989), has noted, “bodies are usually found off the right passenger side of the road, outbound from the city or town.” That is an important clue: knowing the departure site of the offender is important in order to give priority to the passenger side of the road in body search activities.
5) Most disposal sites are located within a 30-45 minute drive from the place where the body was picked up (Streed 1989, in Killam 2004:17). As Rossmo (2000:174) has shown, those sites are located at a mean distance of 33.7 km from the crime site. Fifty percent of those were located at more than 20 km. This data shows the wider distance range of body dump sites to which, consequently, is difficult to apply distance-decay parameters.
6) Lakes, deep rivers, and canals traditionally have been disposal points (Killam 2004:16, 18). Returning to Rossmo’s analysis (2000:175), of the 104 body dump sites considered, 20.2 % were located in rivers, lakes, or marshy areas.
7) Other places in which people are prone to hide bodies are wells, shafts, mines, or any other pre-existing hole (Killam 2004:16, 18; Levine et al. 1984)
8) It is possible to map those areas in which burial is feasible according to soil profile, land use, and underlying geology (Hunter 1996a:17 and 1996b:92).
9) Obviously, the most feasible place to look for a victim’s body will be determined by the crime’s particular circumstances. The first places to investigate will be the suspect’s properties (Killam 2004:14), mainly his or her residence. For obvious reasons, residences are not included in this project. Other urban areas are regarded as having low clandestine burial potential due to the high chance of the offender to be discovered.
10) As Killam has suggested (2004:18), dump sites will be out of sight of neighboring houses, but, as bodies are usually discarded at night, they have to be easily accessible in the dark."

On #5, distance is calculated differently for child abductions. The location of the site increases as the age of the child rises.

Good catch, nicubird!

Here's an image showing that from the handbook:

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image62-1.png)

Ok so the classroom seems to be #213. I dont' know how that is the north end of the school as it is in the front of the school. The north of the building is the rear of the school.  There is a pic that shows inside the school. It was taken through the glass on the side door. Do you think the short staircase leads to the first or second floor. I was thinking it lead to the first, perhaps it is the 2nd floor and there is another small stair case that leads down then?

Well first, I had a nervous giggle to myself (I tend to giggle when nervous) about how we had been recently talking on another topic (Hailey Dunn) about the papers found on murders, and "what if the LE suddenly had to look at *our* interests", and this article comes into focus in my head concerning that statement - and the giggles started.  "Oh boy - that would be just lovely".

But in all honesty, for those of us seeking answers about (not glorification of) crimes, this sort of article is very very helpful, finding a look into killers' minds that we wouldn't otherwise have, one that could help SOMEone find the kids that are lost possible.

Thank you - I'm going to stop squirming around here and reread it.

p.s.  Now let's just hope my boyfriend doesn't look over and see what I'm reading.  lol  Sorry, I couldn't resist; I had to say it in a Fanny-esque way.  (Miss you FannyMae!)

Ok I am very confused, anyone else? In the group of pics there is a pic marked exit. I believe it is #46, is this in the back of the school? Then the next pic #47, it is a pic of a long hallway, which hallway is that and from what door, the one shown in #46? To me it looks like this section of pics are of the back of the school, so is this the door the one person was talking about who said the back exit is not secure?

Are we sure that the classroom assigned to the teacher this year is the same as last year? I only ask because I know I have read before it stated that Kyrons classroom was in the back of the school, not the front as 213 would be. It was also near a bathroom from what I have read. This map doesn't have bathrooms marked that I can tell, anyone else see one?

This school is so confusing because the 1st floor is acually a basement and I am not sure if the doors lead to the first or second floor. LIke the side door, does that small staircase lead to the 2nd floor and there is another small one that leads to the bottom floor? Is it a split stair case as what is in the front of the school?

When this amount of sluething needs to happen to figure out what room was Kyrons, then we know there is a huge lack of information. Got to hand it to LE, they have this case air tight.

This is interesting HK, thanks for posting.

 ::HelloKitty::

It is possible that the teacher wanted to switch rooms.  She probably would be limited in terms of how far she could move as I imagine they like to keep the grades together in an area.

If it was me, I would ask for another room so that I wouldn't have to relive the nightmare daily in that room.

The room never made sense to me. I tried to search on here as I know that there was some very good maps and explanations of which room was Kyron's.  But I cannot find it on here. 

I looked under Kyron and classroom, and I didn't find it. 

This is from the school handbook from this year:

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image62-1.png)

This is from last year's school handbook (I saved it a long time ago):

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image63-1.png)

Teacher has the same room. Hope this helps.

 ::HelloKitty::


That solves the room mystery.  Boy, I would want a different room.

It would be so hard to go back to that room, I would think

Thanks Brandi, it does help. I am going to guess the stairs that we see through that door are stairs that lead to the 2nd floor and there must be stairs that lead down to the basement. I wrote a couple of months ago I feel Kyron was taken out of that side door but I was also thinking the exit door near to his room also makes sense as I was under the impression his room was in the rear of the school. Knowing now it is rm 213 and the exit is right there, I feel stronger that he was lead out that side door. The million dollar question is, who took him?

Sorry for the long post.

First, I want to remind everyone, as always, that I make no assumptions  regarding any name in this post. I'm just throwing this out there. Lord knows we've picked every other thing apart.

It's always wracked my brain, among other things in this case, HOW , WHERE, WHY, and WHO could
have taken Kyron out of that school. How could a stranger, not affiliated with the school, just whisk Kyron away without being noticed? How did he just go poof? Was it someone he knew? How could anyone who knew Kyron, make him disappear? I needed to look at it logically , without being influenced by other opinions.

Someone had to have known the SF was going on that day, and someone had to have known the school layout. But who? Was it someone within the school? All of them have background checks, and were questioned by LE. What IF, it was someone who was associated with someone at the school?

There are 3 public exits, one is the main exit, one that goes out to the soccer field, and one that goes out to the parking area. The only exit that was not monitored, per the school, was the north exit, but that's not true. There are other exits within the school, such as the boiler room, mechanical rm, the gym, cafeteria,  exits by the back playground (one which is a handicap access ramp, another exit near rm's. 109 and 110, and also exit stairs leaving the covered playground area). The most logical exit for Kyron to be taken is the exit onto the back playground area, near rm 109 & 110. The stairs near Kyron's room go down to this area.  Rm's 109 and 110 were K/1 classes. If Kyron were going to the "electrical display", he was probably going down stairs and going to go through the double doors towards the Library. But most likely, he didn't make it through to that area.

See  http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/   (http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/)
and http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/relmeka/kyron/floorplanofSkylinecropped.jpg


Who could have had knowledge that this exit was unmonitored? By stating that it's unmonitored, does that mean the door can only be opened from the inside, because it's locked from the outside, as most older schools have (they have those cross bars that you have to push in order to open the door)? If that were the case, did someone use a key? Who could have a key?

Background:

Skyline Employee: William Robert Tandy (custodian)
Graduated from  Benson Polytechnic High School in 1980
http://www.classmates.com/directory/public/memberprofile/list.htm?regId=7621833277

Father: Gordon Tandy
Birth Date: 9/21/1928

Mother: JANET M TANDY 69         
Birth Date: 10 Aug 1932         
Died: 12 Jan 2002 V                 
Portland, Multnomah, OR 97203   

Previous Addresses:

57498 Cedar Creek Rd
Scappoose, OR 97056-2007

2637 N Farragut St
Portland, OR 97217-6220 (April, 1992)

10002 N Tioga Ave
Portland, OR 97203-1732 ( Gordon Current)


http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&qf=William&qmi=&qn=Tandy&qs=OR&trackit=74&foc

usfirst=1 (http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&qf=William&qmi=&qn=Tandy&qs=OR&trackit=74&foc

usfirst=1)


William Robert Tandy 48
Portland, OR

Relatives/Associates   
   
Denton E Watson
Janet M Tandy
Gordon L Tandy
Mary E Mcfadden

WILLIAM   Middle Name   R
Last Name   TANDY   Primary Address   2638 N FARRAGUT ST
City   PORTLAND   State   OR
ZIP Code   97217

First Name   DENTON   Middle Name   E
Last Name   WATSON   Primary Address   2638 N FARRAGUT ST
City   PORTLAND   State   OR
ZIP Code   97217

NOTE: Mr. Tandy & Mr. Watson share the same address and phone #.

Denton Eugene Watson: 53
Birth Date: 3/10/57

Denton Eugene Watson:
Case # 0115011
OFFENSE: BURG II

Case # CMCR 051255583DEF00001
OFFENSE: DUII

Case # CMCR 930734760DEF00001
OFFENSE: Poss Controlled Sub 1

Case # DMCR B224137DEF00001
OFFENSE: Poss LT 1 Oz Marijuana

Case # DMCR 960140375DEF00001
OFFENSE: Disorderly Conduct

Case # DMCR 960140375DEF00001
OFFENSE: Disorderly Conduct-2

Case # DMCR DA1002232DEF00001
OFFENSE:    Poss Controlled Sub 1
______________________________________________________

Now, looking at the above information, could Mr. Tandy have discussed his work at the school with Mr.
Watson? Is it possible that Mr. Watson could have made copies of Mr. Tandy's keys without his
knowledge, and entered that school? Is it possible that Kyron saw him and Mr. Watson panicked and took Kyron?

Some of the above information can be expanded on further. We've seen some post' before on SM that
have had information related to this post. Go dig! I was trying to keep this post as short as possible,
editing it many times.

And now, I'm off to a deserted Island for rest and relaxation, well, in my mind anyway.  ::MonkeyWink::

Happy Valentines Day Monkeys!

 ::HelloKitty::

We would have to know what MR. watson does for a living, I feel.

I would think any school keys say< "Do not
Duplicate" on them.

I think they have to be made from a special blank.

Does the engineer have authority to make new keys or are they made only through the school district?

How does that work?  I know that in different places whre I have been, the "do no duplicate" keys involve a lot of paperwork.

But these keys do get "lost" too, I bet.

That's not totally correct. Every one of my maintenance guys had their own key making machines. They could duplicate master keys as well. Their not hard to buy, nor are they difficult to use.

As far as where he (Watson) works, I can't find a darn thing, as far as the internet. I couldn't find a footprint on him.

Interesting Sass, definatly something we had not talked about before although the janitor has come up several times. 

I think as with anyone around that area there is a possibility, it is just his criminal background suggests nothing to relate to kidnapping a child however who knows what goes on in someone's head. It's interesting but since you are the one that has put in the research into this guy, perhaps posting it and leaving it up to us to pick up the ball and run with it, for me makes it difficult. I don't know if I am convinced enough to dig but I am not opposed to kicking around some idea's I suppose.

As for keys, I suppose it would be difficult to go to home depot for example and ask for a key to be made but not everyone is honest, so that is not a concern to me. Of course, he could have just taken it off the key chain and the janitor could have thought his key got lost, the school district would have to give him another one.

O/T BUT IMPORTANT FOR ALL TO READ:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9451.0

http://northwestportland.katu.com/news/parents-kids/kyron-hormans-mother-has-valentine-still-missing-son/438469

Kyron Horman's mother has Valentine for still-missing son
Submitted by KATU Communities Staff
Sunday, February 13th, 12:53 pmTopics: Parents & kids, People, News 10 223SharePrintE-mail..
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Supporters of the Kyron Horman search gathered Sunday at the Wall of Hope at noon to show their continued support for the missing child and his family.

This event, held near Skyline Elementary School, the school Kyron Horman's attended before he disappeared on June 4, 2010, comes two days before Sheriff Dan Staton is scheduled to present a six-month review of the investigation to the Multnomah County Commissioners.

Also on Sunday, Desiree Young, the mother of Kyron Horman, released to the media a Valentine to her missing son. In it, she wrote the following:

MORE AT LINK!
ugh it is very sad...I feel so sorry for her I can't stand it.

Thanks TG - how sad  ::MonkeyTears::

I know Klaas it is sad. I hope they find him soon.

hi neighbor,i have a couple of Qs
where i show on the floor plan,stairs that go up to the stage from
off the back of the cafe, are there accessible stairs there?
and were there any SF displays in the gym that day?

i think we read some place that the boy,tanner, saw kyron on the stairs
and kyron said he was going to the cool elec display, then i read someplace
that had a pic, of tanner on the stairs,that go to the cafe, with a cap
that said, that is where tanner saw kyron, sorry no link ive looked and looked
for that link and cant find it,the stairs im talking about are the ones ive
pointed out on the floor plan

JMO, if there, were no SF display, in the gym, that is an easy way out
with out being seen, and means the perp was familiar with the school

floor plans no mark ups
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9317.msg1303451#msg1303451

cw would you mind please posting the entire map that large? I can't seem to get it that big and have it so clear.

Where the heck are the bathrooms in the school?

oh gosh never mind I scrolled over, lol.  ::piggy::

 think i read, someplace that some of the restrooms are in the classroom,kind of closet like
neighbor whats the scoop the  restrooms

think i read, someplace that some of the restrooms are in the classroom,kind of closet like
neighbor whats the scoop the  restrooms

i just noticed something,where i have door marked in the gym,i think that those are stairs
my mark up
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9317.msg1304001#msg1304001
new mark up stairs?

Sassi - TY for all the hard work - you're a good sleuther!

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY!

     Home movies show Kyron Horman:

     http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/video/Home-movies-show-Kyron-Horman-97102679.html

 ::HelloKitty::

I wondered where the bathrooms are in that school as well.

I wonder if those little rectangles in some of the classrooms are the bathroom?

But where are there any public bathrooms?

 ::HelloKitty::

Is that Valentine to Kyron what was referred as talking about the searches? 

Is there any announcements of any other talks from Desiree?

http://northwestportland.katu.com/news/community-spirit/mother-kyron-horman-says-shell-never-stop-trying-find-him/438476 (http://northwestportland.katu.com/news/community-spirit/mother-kyron-horman-says-shell-never-stop-trying-find-him/438476)

Mother of Kyron Horman says she'll never stop trying to find him

 ::snipping2::

A special delivery -- 16 balloons -- eight for each year of Kyron's life and eight for the number of months he's been missing was brought to the wall. A family friend attached Young's Valentine to her son to the wall, which read: "To my Ky, Oh how I miss you so, I miss my hugs from you every day. There are times when I think I hear your voice, I turn around and you're not here."

The message of hope stays strong, but the wall itself seemed quieter Sunday. And at the wall, it is easy to see the passage of time from those first missing posters, to messages of hope from around  the country, a birthday card to Kyron, and a faded reminder from Christmas. The eight months without Kyron can be seen in each faded letter and fraying memento.

Amber Schaecher started the Wall of Hope last June. On Sunday, a Facebook invitation brought only a handful of people out to the wall. But Schaecher believes no one is forgetting the little boy who loves red-eyed tree frogs.

"And everyone is still pulling for him big time and you know I don't think people at all are forgetting him, not even a bit," Schaecher said.

Along with this collective message of hope, faith and love, one Valentine from Young to her son on the wall says it all. It reads: "Please come home to me. I don't think I can bear it without you. Love, Momma."

Young also sent a statement about the search and Kyron, but didn't want the news released until Monday morning.

The case of Horman is still baffling. The young student disappeared nearly eight-and-a-half months ago from Skyline Elementary School in Northwest Portland. His step-mother, Terri Horman, has been widely suspected in his disappearance, but she has never been named a suspect or a person of interest in the case.

Despite massive search efforts and and an external criminal investigation, no sign of the boy has ever been found. Sunday's event at the Wall of Hope comes four days before Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Station is scheduled to present a six-month review of the investigation to the Multnomah County Commissioners.

I am thinking the bathrooms could be the rooms across from rm's 209 and 207?

One this is for certain, that is one small school. How many grades are in that school? k-8? There are only I think 14 classrooms along with the cafeteria, gym and music room? How on earth in a school that size nobody sees Kyron leaving? All of these people in that small school and he goes poof, gone....I find that strange.

 ::HelloKitty::

and the way the school appears to be laid out as well.  It's not sprawling all over the place. 

He probably was seen,  but maybe nothing can be proved?  They thought it was her from almost day one.  So they must have info as to why they think that.

She lawyered up with a huge lawyer and has kept her mouth shut! in isolation.

So it could be that she was seen, but they are gathering the info?  I don't have a clue.

Has anyone heard the statement released by Desiree yesterday morning?  I can't find anything about it anywhere.  Am I missing something?

I must have missed it as well.

Don't miss the Dana Pretzer show tonight at 9pm ET:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2011/02/15/22540/

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/5449151611_9e5decbb68_b.jpg)

 ::MonkeyTears::

Desiree's Valentine to Kyron was heartbreaking.....she is a strong woman and I honestly don't know how she has made it this far, except I think she is bound and deteremined to see justice for Kyron and keep his face out there every chance she can (wonder where Kaine was and why he didn't take this opportunity to get a message out there too and have something placed at the WOH for his son).

Also, isn't it in just a few days when Staton is supposed to present the status update? I was so hoping it would be in January when we learned something/anything.

Is the divorce hearing still set for next month?? Maybe something will come out of that or at least I pray. I was so hopeful during the last search due to the fact it seemed as though it was based on concrete evidence of some type.

I know June 4th will be here so much quicker than we can imagine and if Kyron hasn't been found nor anything happening to push this case forward I just can't imagine how they are going to cope:(

Sassifrass~I enjoyed your input and I too have wondered about prior custodians or anyone who knew the layout of the school and wouldn't have looked out of place the day of the science fair, I also know how draining this case has been on you so come back soon and Godspeed lil man ::FlyingFrog::

I sure hope that LE has more than we know Hellokitty!

Me too, Sebastian!

I think they definitely do. They are holding out for the hard evidence.

Looks like an update is scheduled for 2/24/11, from Staton.

http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/WeeklyAgendaPacket/R-01_BRIEF_Kyron%20Horman%20Case/APR_Kyron%20Horman%20Briefing.pdf (http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/WeeklyAgendaPacket/R-01_BRIEF_Kyron%20Horman%20Case/APR_Kyron%20Horman%20Briefing.pdf)

 ::snipping2::

Please provide sufficient background information for the Board and the public to understand this issue. Please note which Program Offer this action affects and how it impacts the results.

This is a follow up to the October 14, 2010 Board briefing regarding the Kyron Horman investigation.
The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Investigations Division is leading the ongoing investigation for Kyron Horman, a 7 year old student of Skyline Elementary School who disappeared from the school on Friday, June 4, 2010. To date, the investigation has generated over 4318 leads filling 66 four inch binders. All of these leads need to be followed-up as the case continues. Detectives have subpoenaed more than 300 sets of records. Each record can generate from 10 to hundreds of pages of paper records. Additionally, detectives have identified all 490 persons and identified 54 vehicles that were present at Skyline School on June 4th, 2010.
This briefing will provide the commissioners with general background regarding the progress of the investigation and to update our investigative work plan.

 ::snipping2::

Explain any citizen and/or other government participation that has or will take place.

The initial search and investigation for Kyron Horman has to date involved over 42 agencies and continues to receive extensive local and national media coverage. The Kyron Horman Task Force has been comprised of 7 agencies including Multnomah County DA’s Office, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Portland Police Bureau, Washington County Sheriff’s Office, Clackamas County Sheriff’s Office, Oregon State Police and Oregon Department of Justice. Much of the search effort has been completed by SAR volunteers certified by MCSO.

Mods, could you correct date to be 2/24/11? Thanks!

Sentence BBM.

This doesn't make sense. 54 cars? I went through the list and counted a potential 162 cars, assuming couples drove in the same car. How can it only be 54? I realize they probably didn't count school buses, and maybe not school employees or contractors, such as the groundskeeper, but it would still be more than 54.  :smt102

Looks like Stanton is set to produce a report on Kyron on February 24.

http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/WeeklyAgendaPacket/R-01_BRIEF_Kyron%20Horman%20Case/APR_Kyron%20Horman%20Briefing.pdf

Isn't that what I just posted above?   ::MonkeyTongue::

Sass - I think you made a typo 2/14 rather than 2/24 which may be the confusion  ::MonkeyCool::

54 cars? 490 people in 54 cars? I would guess that school busses brought many of the children?

Hey TG!

Nope. I was just counting the adults on the "list". Of course I counted 1 car per couple. IIRC, there were 134 adult names on that list. I don't get the "54" cars.

Sassi - yes, it is.  I just opened Kyron's thread and posted that information while it I was reading it.  I came back later and saw that you posted it.  Sorry.

The 54 cars seems out-of-joint with the number of adults.  There would have been a number of adults that went "one to a car" (an example is Terri).

No worries. Klaas fixed it. It was double coverage!  ::MonkeyWink::

I agree. I counted one per car, per family, from the list. It still adds up to approximately 162 cars (counting couples and family in one car).

It doesn't make sense.

So, there were 29 teachers "on the list". If we take them off the total cars there, it will still be 133 cars.

That's 79 cars, not accounted for.

This doesn't make sense. Who are they excluding, and why? ALL cars should be accounted for.

The way I read this, the identified all of the people, not all of the vehicles...just 54. 

 ::snipping2::

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Sheriff-to-update-latest-on-Kyron-Horman-investigation-116491183.html

Detectives identified all 490 persons and identified 54 vehicles that were present at Skyline School on June 4th, 2010.

 ::snipping2::

I don't think they are saying they have identified all of the cars, which is a little odd to me, since they think they've identified everyone who is present, why can't they identify these people's cars???

Just to be the Devils advocate; if there were 54 cars, do you mean to tell me that 79 of those, on the list, were bus drivers, groundskeepers, etc., on that day? I don't believe it. Even if there were, ANY outside visitor the vehicle should, and would, be stated as such. Their vehicles should be counted, IMO, BUT, I was counting the vehicles per the list.

I don't agree. Why would they send their report 1/2 done? They stated a specific number of vehicles.

Time to make dinner.

If some Monkey could make sense of this, I would be grateful. It doesn't make sense in my mathematical mind.  :smt102

Maybe I am being too precise but, it does not say "and all of the 54 vehicles present".  The fact that they left out the "all" wrt the vehicles, leads me to think they do not believe there were only 54 vehicles present.

I agree that 54 vehicles identified at this point can't possibly be enough for all of the people on their list. They are missing quite a few. I will never understand why they did not request a complete vehicle reconstruction the days after he went missing...ask everyone to come back to the school and park in the same place and tell exactly what time they came and left. For many months, I was imagining they had this big chart on the wall that had been filled in with all of the cars since sometime in June...that would have been the first thing to occur to me, anyway.

No, of course they didn't say "ALL" as far as the vehicles, but why would they leave out the remainder? They are presenting information to MCB. As I've stated before, why not have a complete list?

ITA, and a VERY good analysis of what SHOULD have been done. I too also imagined a chart, but maybe they did have it and are leaving some things out. I can't imagine leaving details out that are being presented to the county though. This just boggles my mind. 

This whole case is just mind-boggling and depressing...just watched the NG show on Susan Powell and it has been 14 months, LE "knows" who did it, but nothing...I do think he will be charged eventually, but I actually think they have a better case against JP than LE has against TH or anyone in Kyron's case. The fact that they are still talking up those thick binders and thousands of tips makes me really nervous and sad.

i think the count of 54 cars, is about right

total persons at skyline 6/4/2010=490

staff and students=315,could be off by 15 + -, i also think the majority of the students
took the bus

so, 490-315=175 guests

going with 2 to a car @ 54 cars =108

175-108=67, 2 people to a ride,unlikely some were Gparent,and students and
others walkers,live close by

taking the 67,and  putting 1/2 of the 67 in 1/2 the  cars leaves, about 2.5 people

i forgot to say i think the le, are only counting the guests cars, prob bc everyone else, was accounted for,
for the whole day,staff and students

CW, I respectfully disagree. If you go to the skyline list, http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9183.0 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9183.0) ,  and remove the minor children, there is a total of 198 Adults. Out of those adults, 20 of them are staff, that were on the list.

After I counted couples as one car, it came to 162 cars. If you take out the teachers that were on the list, it would be 142 cars. There is of course a small margin of error in my calculation, because a few may have been relatives of the parents that were there, but it would be small.

As I stated upthread, I understand that outside contractors may not have been counted in the number of cars, along with staff, but I'm still missing approximately 88 cars.

Below is a list of teachers for the 2009/2010 school year and the teachers that were NOT on the list.


Skyline Elementary School Staff for the 2009 -2010 year

Ben Keefer - principal
Susan Hall - principals sec.
Scott McBeth K/1
Mrs. Easter Matthews K/1
Mrs Linda Cole  K/1
karen Hanson  2/3
Kristina Porter  2/3
Melissa Ritter 2/3
Jessica Bostick 4/5
Vivian Covin 4/5
Jill Kooning 4/5 (NOT THERE IN 2010-2011)
Brian Gardes  lang arts/soc studies 6/7/8
Katrina Frischmann Math/Sci 6/7/8
Paul Mastin math/ lang arts 6/7/8 (NOT THERE IN 2010-2011)
Mrs. Skach lib/tech
pe= mrs Joanne Romanaggi
ms. stephanie Cox - counselor
kenny Moylan head custodian
vickie Ibarra Evening custodian
Diane jones= cafeteria manager
Lou Terrones= resource teacher
Amy Kasch  lang. pathologist
Nancy Yates - school psychologist (NOT THERE IN 2010-2011)
Mark Valeske - occ therapist
Alayna Pettingill  para educator
Tersea Gonzales  para educator
Robert Salvia    para educator (NOT THERE IN 2010-2011)
Deborah Meskimen  para educator


**************************************************************
Teachers not on the list:

pe= mrs Joanne Romanaggi
ms. stephanie Cox - counselor
kenny Moylan head custodian
vickie Ibarra Evening custodian
Lou Terrones= resource teacher
Nancy Yates - school psychologist
Robert Salvia    para educator
Mrs. Skach lib/tech

sassi i went back over the count with the fact figures
your right count is way off
the kids that were bussed are not countable on that list

just dealing with the list...
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9183.0

total on the list is 213
40 sets of surnames,=40 cars and 88 individuals
that leaves 14 cars,and i dont think the count of the 54 autos
includes the staffs cars
i counted 16 staff on the list

213-88=125-16=109

so that leaves 109 individuals and 14 cars

109-14cars=95 individuals that need a car

even if you take 10 walkers,and 10 on bicycles
off the list thats 95-20=75,without a car
we could throw in another 10 that were dropped off and picked up
and that still leaves 65, without a ride

if the 54 count of autos,was not a typo,im not sure what that would mean
other than people saying they were there, but really  had not been there
i dont know why 65 people would say that though
or 65 people by my count,did not show up to fill out the form on sunday and sat
and the LE used only the ones, that showed up as a count of vehicles,im going
to have to think that thought trough a little more,thats crazy and scary

ADULTS AND NON-STUDENT CHILDREN AT SKYLINE SCHOOL BETWEEN 8-12 on JUNE 4, 2010

I just read on twitter that Desiree will be handing out fliers in Terri's neighborhood in Roseburg.  They say it will be on Fox12 at 5pm. 

Totally staying out of the math stuff. That statement can be read both ways in my opinion. I am leaning on they have identified 54 cars there that day, if there were more, they don't know or don't know who they belong to.

Awesome! WTG Desiree! I love when the parents stand up and take action like this. I admire her so much.

Agree.

wait I think I misread what you are saying. Are you agreeing that there are not enough cars for the people stated?

http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=116540373&fPath=/news/local&fDomain=10202

Kyron's Mother: I believe he is dead and Terri is responsible

by Colin Miner, KGW Staff
NWCN.com
Posted on February 19, 2011 at 5:16 PM
Updated today at 5:18 PM

snipped:
Background: Search for Kyron Horman

"It's not right that Terri gets to have a free life while my son is missing," Young said. "There's only one person that knows where Kyron is and when you see her, you need to ask where he is."
Young was in Roseburg, Oregon, where Moulton-Horman has lived with her parents since her husband filed for divorce weeks after Kyron's disappearance.

“We are putting the pressure on Terri,” Young told KGW. “We are bringing it to her. She needs to know we will not rest until Kyron is brought home.”

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/110219_kyron_terri_flier.jpg)

Kyron’s mom wants stepmother out of her comfort zone

<snipped>

Young asked people who live in Roseburg to confront Terri Horman at the grocery store, on the street or at the gas station and ask her, “Where is Kyron?”

Young has said she feels Horman knows something about Kyron’s disappearance and said, while her son has been missing for over eight months, his stepmother has been able to hand out candy to kids on Halloween and enjoy Christmas.

“Kyron’s story is not one of a child that wandered away from his school or was abducted by a stranger,” Young said. “It was somebody who was brought into our family. ... There is one person that knows where he is: Terri Horman, where is Kyron?”

Fliers went up around Roseburg Saturday, asking people to remember Kyron and encouraging the public to ask Terri Horman where he is when they see her.

<snipped>
http://www.katu.com/news/local/116543823.html

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kyrons-mother-believes-her-son-is-dead/gwY3Bc0qH0yO2GEbwwrXWg.cspx

 ::snipping2::
But she also said, for the first time, that she believes Kyron is dead. As recently as February 14, she released an open Valentine's Day message to Kyron, saying "God is looking over you and protecting you until I get there, so be brave, I am coming." She added that "I know that we are getting closer every day, I dream about finding you and I know they will bring you home."
 ::snipping2::

::MonkeyTears::

 ::snipping2::

The Multnomah County Sheriff is scheduled to give details on the state of the investigation next week.

 

But Young says she doesn't expect police to name Terri as a suspect at that point.

http://kezi.com/news/local/204959
 ::snipping2::
Well, I guess that's how most of us feel, too.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Police increase patrols in Scappoose after attempted abduction

http://www.katu.com/news/local/116517498.html

Here is another quote from Desiree, this one more optimistic...

http://www.kptv.com/news/26928571/detail.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------snipped-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has not revealed details of the investigation, but the Sheriff is expected to update commissioners next week. Young said Saturday that she’s confident in the investigation, but said it’s time to name a suspect.

“We’re confident that what they’re doing is all the right stuff, and every bit of information we’ve gotten from them has reassured us of that,” said Young, but added she believes it’s time to name a suspect.

“We have overwhelming evidence,” said Young.

Anna Canzano, Desiree Horman just told KATU News she absolutely does NOT believe Kyron is dead, despite what another agency is reporting. We'll have her actions today in Roseburg at 6.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hailey-Dunn-Open-Discussion/189599337718905?v=wall#!/pages/Missing-Kyron-Horman/125336750831264

I hope they do name a suspect(s) soon and a bit of details on what they think may have happened.

There was talk about this man on Blinks, thank god they found him.

http://www.kptv.com/news/26895844/detail.html

Former Beaverton Teacher Caught By U.S. Marshals

POSTED: 10:35 pm PST February 16, 2011
UPDATED: 9:18 pm PST February 19, 2011

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Multiple law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Marshals and Interpol, now have their man.

U.S. Marshals arrested Logan Storm, 35, at Portland International Aiport Saturday. The former Beaverton School District teacher was booked on 30 counts of child pornography charges and is being held in the Multnomah County Jail, U.S. Marshals said.

Check out the video, listening to Desiree gives me chills. I think after listening to this, I am coming off my comfortable place on the fence. There is something to her accusations, I can hear it in her voice and see it in her eyes. She said something about they now know the "why"....OMG Terri did do this, didn't she..I feel sick right now, just sick.

http://www.kptv.com/news/26928571/detail.html

Desiree said   "I know horrifying things about her ... about my son specifically"   ::MonkeyShocked::   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I know her press conference was really something. What on earth did they uncover that was horrifying to Desiree? What did Kyron go through? What happened that morning? That part about with the evidence they now have, they know the why..That to me was chilling.

Yes, the last two times Desiree has spoken with a new conviction. (Since the lunch she had with Staton before Thanksgiving).

I hope Staton "names" a suspect.

The "why" - would that be (something Desiree said last time) about an email of Terri's saying the Kryon was responsible for troubles in her marriage?

IMO this was a briliant move by Desiree - "taking it to Terri in her comfort zone".  I really give her, Tony and their friends credit on this one!

Staton - my gosh...if that man has the evidence, he really needs to name a suspect. 

If he doesn't have the evidence, then he needs to tell the public that and why not - because he's obviously telling Desiree he has the evidence. 

So, name the suspect(s)!

Yea i agree he does need to name suspects already. This was a smart move by Desiree, I am glad she did it. I think it shows that she is not going to back down until she finds her boy. The person(s) responsible better just spill the beans because I think Desiree is coming after them. Nothing like a mama bear, don't mess with a mama bear.

What about all of this will surprise us? Perhaps a detail about it all, perhaps the "why" will surprise all of us.

Ah, yes...one of the few things that Staton told us was that we would be surprised.  Also, that LE knew things they wish they didn't know.  What is that....I'm assuming they'd want to know about what happened to Kyron...so wonder what it is?

BBM

This is a very powerful statement by Desiree. She knows this was NOT some nut job pedo stranger who just walked in and took Kyron.

Also, her courage and drive, handing out fliers and telling people to ask her "where is Kyron", when they see the chubby squirrel out and about in the neighborhood, is just plain brilliant. 

Bravo Desiree!

BBM

Glad to see it TG.   ::MonkeyWink::

I agree, it is chilling. As far as I'm concerned, there is no "over the top" or "out of bounds" speculation or informational digging, when it comes to TH.

I loved those sweat shirt jackets they wore, with Kyrons and Terri's face on them!  ::MonkeyTongue::

I think there was more strategy in Saturday’s trip to Roseburg by Desiree, Tony and friends to put up flyers and posters and to knock on the Moulton’s front door of their home to oust Terri out of her comfort zone. 

Remember back to the end of January, when all of a sudden LE is doing a search on the mountain for all things Kyron and Desiree made a public statement that she was excited about this search.  We thought that was odd wording.   Then we learned that Desiree had learned way back before Thanksgiving that LE had new, solid evidence and they were going to search the mountain area as soon as the weather warmed up.  Also, on the day of the search, LE was very confident in their search and their solid evidence.

Also recall that about the same time, Staton let it out that his February 1 report would not be presented until late February, that he was not planning on asking for any more money for the case and he even was making a decision as to whether he would continue on with the Task Force full-time.

I believe that Desiree was excited because she’d been waiting for 2 ½ months for warm day and it was finally here….searchers were going to look for her son…LE had solid evidence….Desiree said she wanted closure.  That didn’t happen.  The evidence doesn’t appear to have been so solid after all.  However, LE had told Desiree it was and she lived for a warm day.
 
I also believe that Desiree, like many of us, may have looked at Staton’s late report, not asking for more funds and maybe cutting the Task Force to part-time as not good.

I can see where all of this would make Desiree angry: Terri’s in a comfort zone, while Kyron’s still missing; LE looks like they’re cutting back on the time, money and efforts on finding Kyron.
 
Part of her statement Saturday was if no one’s going to do this, who will.  The “who will” part, IMO, was a little sarcastic – matter of fact – I’ve got to do this myself.  So, I’m thinking that Saturday’s actions were done to force hands:  Terri’s hand – make her uncomfortable – make her tell where Kyron is, etc.; and Staton’s hand – make him uncomfortable – make him name a suspect – make him not give up on finding Kyron, etc.

Desiree says there is overwhelming evidence and she would have gotten that information from Staton.  If that’s so, then why hasn’t Staton made an arrest?

I think Desiree put both Terri and LE "on notice" that she's not backing down.
Also, she let the rest of us know that there's "overwhelming evidence".  Thumb in Staton's eye, IMO.

Morning Puzz...I also see this saying, if I don't who will, kind of a really big dig to Kaine!  What's up with him lately?  Why no face time, why not support Ky's Mom in looking for him?  Why isn't he looking?  Could it be that he is positive he is dead and doesn't see any need to continue?  I dunno, why not help DY pressure Terri?  What's up with that?  God Bless little Kyron may he be found soon and brought home to his Momma!

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/kyron-horman-12959259


Desiree on GMA today.

I had a conversation with some friends that don't follow this case on anything but TV news and their take surprised me. To begin with they were disgusted that a police officer was involved in stalking and harassing a citizen that isn't even named a person of interest and thought that a restraining order should be issued against the bio mom and her husband. They believe that TH has been hounded by this family on their interpretation of unverified inside info and whatever happened to the presumption of innocence. I was just amazed.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/116543823.html

Kyron’s mom wants stepmother out of her comfort zone
By Margy Lynch KATU News and KATU.com Staff

(http://media.katu.com/images/110219_ask_terri_poster.jpg)

ROSEBURG, Ore. - The mother of missing 8-year-old Kyron Horman said Saturday she’s tired of the boy’s stepmother living “comfortably” and asked the public to make her uncomfortable.

Desiree Young could have gotten more media exposure if she had held her news conference in Portland or at Kyron’s elementary school, but the mother of the missing boy said she wanted to make a point in the town Terri Horman has lived since moving there in July.

Young asked people who live in Roseburg to confront Terri Horman at the grocery store, on the street or at the gas station.

“We ask any time you see Terri, ask her, ‘Where’s Kyron?’”
 ::snipping2::

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kyron-Hormans-mother-puts-pressure-116540373.html

"It's not right that Terri gets to have a free life while my son is missing,"

by KGW Staff
Posted on February 19, 2011 at 3:30 PM
Updated today at 9:37 AM

There's no doubt in my mind that Desiree has put a lot of pressure on Staton to make a move this week.

Don't you think this is an odd email to be sent by TH's father a month and a half after his grandson went missing, and the day KH moved out of the house? Why were they looking for that information? Shouldn't they have been concentrating on their grandson and their daughter?

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WA-CEMETERIES/2010-07/1280423237 (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WA-CEMETERIES/2010-07/1280423237)

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:58 PM
To: wa-cemeteries-l@rootsweb.com
Subject: [WA-CEMETERIES] (no subject)


Dear Sirs:
We are looking for Elizabeth Todd's final resting place with a date of death and possibly other information on her. She was married to Frank H. Todd when he was murdered in Hoquiam, Washington on 8/31/1907 or 9/1/1907. Frank Todd is buried in Sunset Memorial Park for the City of Hoquiam, Grays Harbor Co. in the state of Washington. We assume that Elizabeth died in Washington state.
 ::snipping2::
Edit - snip  MB

Maybe he didn't know about KH having moved out at the time he's writing this letter.  Maybe Mr. Moulton was trying to do something to occupy his time.  Looks like he's been working on a family tree for quite a while.  I don't see anything wrong with it myself.

Yeah, I guess you're right Puzzler. I was trying to locate info to for a question one of the blinksters asked, and saw this. Thanks for setting me straight my friend.  ::MonkeyKiss::

People can question TH until they are blue in the face, do they really expect a reply? Does Desiree? I know she feels she has to do something but I do hope she is not counting on anything shaking loose from her plan. It won't happen.

As far as saying how much evidence they have, I get the feeling this is Desiree's interpretation; she herself has a ton of evidence against Terri as she has months to build it, going back 7 years. Maybe LE is telling her they can't really move until Kyron is found. I can see where that would be the most frustrating of all.

But her statement doesn't make sense when she says if Terri would just tell what happened, she could clear herself. Huh? If Terri knows and tells what happened to Kyron, she goes right to jail.

I totally don't agree with you bebe. Desiree has  stated she is basing it on the info that LE showed her, and I haven't seen ANY statement that she has made where she says " if Terri would just tell what happened, she could clear herself." I would be happy to see a link to that.

I so strongly disagree with the opinion that Desiree is over stepping boundaries and Tony has no place in helping. I think Terri is lucky she is still on this side of the soil to be honest with you. I think Desiree has shown great restraint with a person she believes has hurt her son. I applaud this move by Desiree, she is standing up for her boy and trying to find him. This is something coming from me, but I don't give a rats bottom if Terri's feelings get hurt. In my opinion, she should open the door and have a conversation with Desiree. She is hiding behind her lawyer...
Off to listen to the ABC interview

Her message to Terri was strong and to the point. I am seeing a bit of Amber's mother Carrie, coming out in Desiree, thats great. I am equally happy that Desiree will hopefully put pressure on LE to get this done.

I couldn't have said it better TG!  ::MonkeySlide::

http://www.ktvl.com/news/horman-1198811-mother-young.html

Here Desiree says that Terri is more than welcome to clear herself...but how could she, in Desiree's eyes? Even if TH somehow took and passed a LD test at this point, I don't think DY would ever believe her. I wonder how Desiree thinks TH could clear herself to Desiree's satisfaction?

Not that I think TH will ever take another polygraph...but I also don't think she could ever clear herself in D's eyes, unless possibly if some other unrelated person is eventually found to have taken Kyron and I don't think there is much chance of that happening.
http://kdrv.com/news/local/204957

"...tell me where Kyron is, tell me what you've done and clear yourself"

This is the sentence from the kdrv link that does not make sense to me...how can Terri tell where Kyron is and what she's done and yet clear herself?

There is some speculation that Terri moved Kyrons body. Apparently a blog writter was told that by a source. I would think if they had that knowledge then LE would have arrested Terri for tampering with evidence.  Tracygirl, do you have links back to this? Muffy

I will say there is more to the story then Terri hating Kyron and she killed him that morning. I think there is a back story that will be eventually come out that will surprise us. Something happened along the way that led to this. Desiree should leak it some how, I think the truth coming out will put extra pressure on Terri and whoever else to tell the truth. right now there is plenty of room for doubt, take that away and they have nothing left.

I have to add, I can't believe Terri was handing out candy on halloween and going to bars! WTh? Really? She is comfortable if parents are bringing their children to her door and she is able to go out in public. I suppose the news hasn't carried much about this story in Roseburg? I know that Kyron could be living in a house in my neighborhood and nobody would know the difference. Unless you watch the morning shows or nancy grace you wouldn't know about him.

I don't know it is an interesting statement. There is some speculation (rumor)that Terri moved Kyrons body, perhaps it is thought someone else killed him and terri helped to cover it up by moving him or cleaning the area?

Its a bit strange to get cheers on this thread, lol.

If Terri knows anything about Kyron or his whereabouts...she cannot "clear herself". I think Desiree was just over-emotional when she spoke about that. If Terri knows anything, she has at the very least participated in a murderand/or kidnapping, so she won't be coming forward to talk to Desiree.

Where did you read that Terri moved Kyron's body and going to bars and handing out Halloween candy? I truly understand Desiree's anger, broken heart behind repair, but I am questioning if it is okay to go and hand out flyers and do this when Terri hasn't been named a suspect? What I'm trying to say is, Desiree herself could get into trouble legally by doing this, but don't know the laws in Oregon, but I'll bet if this isn't right, Terri's lawyer will certainly do something about it. I'm sure at this point in time Desiree probably doesn't care if she gets in trouble, she is trying this to see if it works, and she must be at her wit's end.

BBM

This was their point..If she believes that LE has all this evidence that she should be hounding the DA and LE for an arrest. They felt that there probably isn't the evidence she imagines so she will try her in the media and they just felt it wasn't helping to find Kyron or making her statements reliable or believable. As I said these people only listen to MSM and do not follow crime or missing persons forums. I just thought it was an interesting observation that they did not find her a sympathetic figure. Don't kill the messenger....it's just another opinion from people in the general population once again they only hear news bytes and clips and have formed this opinion.

No Rose...some blogger who said he couldn't name his source made a comment about Terri moving the body.  IMO, that didn't happen...Terri was under watchful of LE from the get-go and still is.  She didn't move any body.  BBM -Do you have a link back to this?  Who is the "some blogger" and where is this from?  Muffy

The other part about the bar and handing out Halloween candy, that was said by Desiree this morning on GMA.  It was stated something like we've come to know or understand (didn't say how) that Terri was handing out Halloween candy to kids, going to bars and enjoying the holidays, all while Kyron is missing.

Yes, at this point, I'm concerned for Desiree and that she could be harming herself (although I understand her anger and can't blame her...I do worry about her now).

 

No, I have no link.  Maybe TraceyGirl has one.  I did read about it this morning and felt it had no merit, so I thought no more about it until I saw No Rose was questioning it.  If I recall where I read it, I'll get the link.

No Rose, here is a link to Desiree's statements about the Halloween candy and bars this morning on GMA (which I posted earlier this morning).

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/kyron-horman-12959259

Puzzler, thank you for your quick reply and I hope a link can be found among the monkeys.  (OMG the missing link    ::MonkeyEek::  ) ::MonkeyHaHa::  I know what you mean about reading something somewhere and not thinking much of it at the time, and then later it comes up for discussion and no link.  It causes a lot of confusion if there's much discussion about it and we can't link back and read it as it was posted.  There's so much speculation and misinformation sometimes, it helps keep things straight by having that link.   ::rhino::

Thank-you, didn't realize it was on the video from this morning about the bars and handing out candy. I also wonder if LE is okay with Desiree saying these things and handing fliers out in the neighborhood of Terri's parent's house. Just wondered if this could be considered harassment or not. 4 Donks, there are many people that don't follow Caylee's case closely, and people have sympathy for George and Cindy Anthony, so I can see that being some people's interpretation of things in this case. They only see bits and pieces on the news.

thank-you Puzzler  ::MonkeyCool::

Muffy, here you go - the link you asked about it to seamusoriley


http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2011/02/anger-of-desiree-young.html

(snip)  "I commented that Terri Horman moved the body. This is something a source told me that I cannot reveal. It is also something that common sense tells me, given the intensity of the search."  (snip)

It would not surprise me to find out that LE heard of Desiree's actions at the same time as the rest of us.  It does appear that Desiree is pushing Staton's buttons to force his hand to do something. 

I can understand it....Desiree is saying we have overwhelming evidence.  Assuming by "we" that she means LE, then to be led to believe there's overwhelming evidence and yet there is no arrest nor even to name a suspect, then I'd be beside myself with anger, too. 

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2011/02/anger-of-desiree-young.html

Here is the link. Thought I included it, sorry.

What I think is surprising to me is Desiree said in the GMA interview that people in Roseburg didn't know much about the case. Well I suppose she is educating them on it. Is it harrassment? Probably in some ways, but Desiree also has a right to free speech.  I would gather she got permits and is acting within her rights.

Yea I would be besides myself with anger. Sometimes people have to take a stand and not sit back in silence if they believe a wrong has been committed and they want it changed. Desiree see's Terri as the person responsible, LE won't arrest her or even name her a suspect although there is supposedly overwhelming evidence showing Terri is involved. It has been 8 months, I suppose Desiree has said, enough already I will do what I have to, to find my son.
Do we know if Desiree has a PI working with her and Tony?

What are the monkeys thoughts about posters being allegedly being put in the Moulton's lawn?
Where did you see this, please?  And is there a link?  MB

Post from BOC:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/

Rose says:
February 20, 2011 at 3:10 pm
@48. Blink. Since June 4, the MSCO’s inability to case manage the public (on a micro-level, the public associated with the Science Fair/school as witnesses or imbedded perp, on a macro-level Kyron’s community) has always been this case’s greatest weakness. Forensic evidence is a lot easier to handle. The Sheriff won’t change stripes now. The DA might consider taking over the PR function (no doubt stepping on more toes).

My sources tell me the DA (Underhill) is running this investigation. That is a rareity, btw, and usually only happens in a case where LE errors or conflicts have occurred, or have potential to.

9 Fed and Le agencies unable to find a shred of physical evidence linked to Kyron’s abduction or other freaks me the eff out. There, I said it.
B

I would have done the same thing so I suppose that is my feeling on it all. I think there is a time to play nice and a time to stand up and say enough, for Desiree it is time to say enough.

Has it been verified that posters were put on the Moultons' property? I honestly doubt that happened, that would be trespassing and I can't see Tony Y. condoning that portion of Desiree's actions. I guess if she left a flyer on the porch, that is one thing, people do that all the time, but not putting up a sign in their yard.

BBM

Anyone know the source of this?  Is there a link?  MB

That is what I was wondering, if it is harassment or not? The problem I see with this, is I'm afraid some kook might take it upon themselves and go after Terri, and physically attack her which wouldn't be good at all.

Yea perhaps Terri should stay inside for a little while.

 ::rhino::

I have read posters here and on a few other sites state this and that Desiree knocked on the door but I have not seen it reported. I am not clear on it's accuracy

I see.  I think then we can consider this a rumor, since there doesn't appear to be anything that can be verified.  Still, even if it's rumor or speculation that was brought from another site, there needs to be a link back to it.  Not everyone here reads other places and it's very difficult to follow when there's just a lot of chatter, and no way to go back and look at the source.  When someone posts "I read it somewhere..." or "..it was posted on another site", isn't enough.  All monkeys need to provide the link, please.  MB

If they did it was probably on the city easement. I've had political posters placed on the easement in front of my place and it's legal but because I'm responsible for the maintenance of the easement they get bush hogged down while I'm maintaining the easement. ::MonkeyCool::
Sorry got in your quote.

Yes, I saw it in this video at about the 50 second mark: words to the effect that Desiree went to the house and knock on the door before putting up signs around the house.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/116543823.html?tab=video

Muffy - I posted a link.  I was away from the computer for a while.  Sorry I didn't get back soon enough.

Thanks Puzzler. 

IMHO, so long as Desiree or anyone for that matter stays on public property & doesnt cross the line to constantly bang on Terri's parent's house door or call them nonstop with threats of any sort its doubtful that this could be considered harassment.  If anything if a reasonable demonstration or protest were to get loud, especially during hours within city ordiances set aside for the peace of its residents, possibly a disturbing the peace charge could be made.  So long as she is continuously asking Terri where Kyron is as the last known person to see him and/or even as an official suspect in the case & not stating for a fact that she IS responsible for Kyron's disappearance and/or harm she should be legally okay to pose that question publicly as often and/or creatively as she chooses.

Yep that is what she did! She knocked right on the door!

It was sad that she said if Terri was to give her the chance, she would talk with her and tell her that Kyron never asked anything of her except to love him..... ::MonkeyTears:: aint that the truth about all kids, they just want love.

Please light a candle and say a prayer for Kyron, that he may be found soon.
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Kyron

Thanks Muffybee. I have a feeling that he will be found eventually. I don't think anything else will be an option for Desiree. 

-snipped

Young says police have informed her of written clues from Terri Horman herself that detail her disdain for Kyron. She says the clues blame the boy for Terri Horman’s failing marriage to Kyron’s father.

But despite the scrutiny, Terri Horman has yet to be named a suspect in the case. No one has.

“There’s no bloody footprints, no torn CSI shirt, no broken eyeglasses,” McCain said. “So this investigation really has had a severe lack of physical evidence from the very, very beginning.”  -snipped

http://www.wtma.com/rssItem.asp?feedid=118&itemid=29635623

Wasn't Kyron's glasses reported to have been sent to Kaines residence in the beginning of this case?  Isn't that why the photo at the science fair was re-done w/out Kyron wearing his glasses?  OR ... is the key work in his sentence no "broken" eyeglasses?

I guess my above post wasn't new news ... This was dated Novemeber 15th 2010

-snipped

Kyron’s biological mother, Desiree Young, said investigators shared e-mails with her that Terri sent friends. She said in them Terri talked about hurting Kyron. Desiree said she now believes Terri is capable of doing so.

“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7 year old.”

Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron.

“I no longer had that little part of me that hoped she hadn’t done anything to Kyron,” Desiree said after she read the e-mails. “I realized that she is capable of hurting him. That was the hardest part about it.”

-snipped

http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html

It took me a while to catch up, but I am very glad that Desiree has had enough! These cases drag on and on and I would have been out of my mind months ago, if this was my child. I do have a question. Do we know if Tony has been with Desiree during her trip to Roseburg? Is she doing this on her own, or is Tony by her side? Does anyone know where Kaine has been? TIA

Tony and some friends were with Desiree in Roseburg.

Haven't heard one word about Kaine other than people asking where he is.

Puzz...there is a video (don't know how to link from my comcast news to here) from KATU showing DY posting all the signs and handing out fliers.  Happen to notice 30 to 45 secs in DY was with KH and there were red heart balloons in the background and he turned and walked away quickly.  My question is is this and old snippet of a video showing them together at the Wall of Hope or is it new and the camera just happen to catch him and he got away.  I'm sure it's an old clip but the red heart balloons threw me off.  I know we haven't seen hide nor hair of him lately and it's a damn shame DY has to do this all alone when Ky has another parent capable of helping.  I know Desiree has Tony and the help of fam and friends but the only thing I liked about KH was that he was out spreading the word about Ky.  Just don't like him, sorry, he's a little two faced but that doesn't matter right now.  I'm with DY's opinion of KH right now.  God Bless her and give her the strength she needs.  God Bless you all and good night beautiful Monkeys.

A great blog post from Valhall regarding Desiree's visit to Roseburg.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/ (http://www.thehinkymeter.com/)

Desiree Young wants to know where her son, Kyron, is.  She wants him home.  She is voicing little confidence that he is alive.  In fact, her words are a testament that she fears he was mostly likely murdered, or intentionally placed in harms way.  Terri Horman, Kyron’s stepmother and the last known person to see Kyron alive, has not been honest with law enforcement who have now worked over 8 months to find Kyron.  Terri has been reported to have flunked two polygraphs and walked out on another.  Her account of her location and activities on the morning Kyron went missing is questionable, and some reports state do not match her cell phone pings.

Desiree Young deserves to have her child back.  She deserves to know where he is and bring him home.  Desiree is demanding answers.  As a mother and grandmother, I am 100% behind her getting those answers.  I have created the following flier in hopes that others will take it and pass it forward.  Terri Horman needs to tell what she knows.  Terri Horman needs to answer the question – WHERE IS KYRON???

I have created two formats to spread the word.  Please feel free to copy the following jpg poster image onto your Myspace page, your Facebook page, other sites you post at, and embed in emails to your friends.  There is also a pdf linked below the image in case you would like to print out posters, or pass the file forward to others to spread the word.  There is no obligation to say where you got it….JUST HELP DESIREE BRING HER SON HOME. PASS IT FORWARD!

 ::snipping2::

http://northwestportland.katu.com/news/parents-kids/kyrons-mother-goes-national-tv-message-terri-horman/438616 (http://northwestportland.katu.com/news/parents-kids/kyrons-mother-goes-national-tv-message-terri-horman/438616)

Kyron's mother goes on national TV with message for Terri

If anyone is interested in watching the live Multnomah County board meeting on Thursday, which is when Staton will be there, you can watch it on the internet, at the below url. It runs from 9:30am - 12 noon. I'm not sure what time he is up.


http://www2.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/live_broadcast.shtml (http://www2.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/live_broadcast.shtml)

Just a note: I believe you have to have Realplayer installed, which you can find here:

http://www.real.com/realplayer (http://www.real.com/realplayer)

Thank you Puzzler! I would imagine that Tony is pushing it with LE by being present in Roseburg. I am so glad that he was there supporting Desiree!

Hi Melisb,
I think that Desiree is done playing nice and that includes LE, the psycho red squirrel and Kaine. I don't blame her in the least. I have never been a fan of Kaine's either, but I would GUESS that his divorce attorney has advised him to stay away from Roseburg and the sicko that lives there. Kaine also has a toddler at home that needs him.

I am not sure why, since all the missing are not far from my thoughts, but Kyron is weighing heavily on my mind the past few days.  I am so afraid if something does not break soon this will end up like Haleigh. 

I am sending out wishes and prayers that we will get something soon.

TY Sassifrass for the links.

I don't know what the weather is like there, but I keep hoping that spring is starting to make herself known and that as people begin to get back into the outdoors that someone finds Kyron.  He really needs to be brought home to his parents.

I kept wondering if there was a difference between male and female sociopaths. I found this article to be VERY interesting with regards to the female sociopath and their children.

http://antimisandry.com/mens-health/venus-dark-side-female-sociopaths-emotional-manipulative-abuse-against-men-18904.html

After reading about the details in Zahra's case, my heart is sick tonight for her and for Kyron. I am a step mother, although I hate that term, I have always liked to call them my bonus kids. I love them, they are a part of my family and a part of my life. I worry about them, care for them, I try to protect them, but all they want is for me to allow them time with their father, for me to love them in spite of that and to open my life and heart to them. That is my main job as a step mom, step aside when I need to and to love them unconditionally. I don't see why that is so difficult.
Both of these children didn't deserve their fates, it has saddened me beyond anything tonight.

Zahra I pray for you tonight that you have finally found peace and love. Your story I will never soon forget. Kyron I pray we find you and you are brought home. Your mama misses you and is fighting hard for you, you are loved little one.

Goodnight everyone, may tomorrow be the day Kyron is found. 

Wow!  It sounds like every one of the female perpetrators that we have discussed on SM.  Really sick people.

Agreed, akmom, lots of prayers for Kyron and those who love him.

Desiree has never changed course or verred in this whole ordeal with Terri.  She had said early on that she knew from day one Terri was involved.  She and Kaine and Tony gave press conferences where they said Terri needs to tell the truth. 

I am glad she is following up now by going to Terri's new comfort zone..Roseburg.  People in that community need to ask Terri the hard questions when they pass her on the street, in the grocery stores, at bars.  I always felt the reason that Kaine made her leave the home was to remove her from her comfort zone there...now she needs to feel she has no where to run, no place to hide.

I really think that Terri needs to realize that no one believes her..and no one wants her in their town.  And what fools let their children trick or treat at her parents house..for the love of God...I wouldn't let an animal take a treat from this woman.

We are expecting more snow.  Wednesday, and more on Thursday.

I am not sure if there is more to this video than the one above. All I can say is Goooooooooo Desiree. We love you, we support you and we are so proud of you!

http://www.katu.com/home/video/116678914.html

 ::rhino::  I just watched most of it (little ears kept trying to listen, so I wasn't able to finish).

 ::MonkeyCheer4::                                                                                                        ::MonkeyCheer4::                                                                                                             ::MonkeyCheer4::

Everyone who hasn't watched this video of Desiree's entire presser in Roseburg (before I had only heard snippets here and there), might find this to be of interest.

Desiree says at one point that LE is searching an 11-acre area East of Skyline School.

She says that LE has evidence that Terri was there.

She also says that Terri put everything in writing.

Thank you Sebastian for the link to the above video of Desiree's press conference.

It really sounds as though per Desiree that LE has evidence against Terri...she put everything in writing.

Tick Tock Terri, Tick Tock.

Post from BOC:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/

enumclawrose says:
February 23, 2011 at 4:05 am
Puzzled, Thanks for articulating this so well. I know we all wish this was not the case, but at least we know where we are at. This is an important post. IMO we should all read it again.

9.puzzled says:
February 21, 2011 at 5:34 pm
It’s looking to me like … LE knows there was a male talking to Ky inside the school. LE knows Terri left the school without Ky. LE does not know how Ky left the school or who with. There is only a generic description of the male … height, weight, coloring, facial hair … but not enough of a facial recognition for a sketch.

If this is so … then LE is still guessing as to who Ky left with … just that they know he did not leave the building with TH when she left the building. LE does not know who Ky left the building with.

do I have this right ???

It is about as close as one can get, imo.
B

Wonder what the age of the male is? I would imagine that Kyron new the man, but then again, this man could have said something that was very interesting to him and he left with him to go see whatever this man said he had, etc. From my prospective with raising two girls is that no matter how many times we would tell them, don't run off towards the street when the ball goes over that way, don't wander at all from us in the store, don't do this and don't do that, there are just some kids that will do it anyway, it is the way they are. One of mine behaved and one had little interest in all the warnings  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Update: Sheriff Staton will be up first @ 9:30 am PST.

http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/WeeklyAgendaPacket/022411_Agenda.pdf (http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/WeeklyAgendaPacket/022411_Agenda.pdf)


REGULAR AGENDA
SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT – 9:30 am
R-1 Informational Board Briefing on the Kyron Horman Investigation Task Force. Presenters: Sheriff Dan Staton and Lieutenant Ned Walls. (15 min)

From Blink On Crime   ::snipping2::     Jden says:
February 23, 2011 at 9:23 am

LE has witnesses that saw someone on the gravel access road in/around the Horman truck. (Kaine’s truck per DY)
LE has witnesses, children and adults, that (believe) they saw KyH in the school with an unidentified male.

Consider this (purely supposition):
If these are both true statements, then it is possible that TmH left the parking lot in someone else’s vehicle. The male who was witnessed inside the school with KyH was someone familiar to KyH, enough that KyH would follow instructions on how/when to exit the building, especially if he had been instructed to listen to that male earlier on by TmH. DY states that this person was “close to the family”.   ::MonkeyEek::    Desiree states the man was close to the family?  If that were true, you would think the police would know who he is? 

Maybe Desiree is trying to put the pressure on Terri now and this is a last push before an arrest is made.  She may think that once Terri is behind bars, she may never talk.  She may feel that she is more susceptible to "outside" pressure from the community and even her parents and may crack, whereas it may never happen while incarcerated.

I am still thinking about the little church across the street from the school where the pressers were often held.  That church is no longer a church, but open for social events, etc.

I swear I remember reading somewhere that the lady who operates the church said they had security cameras in place.  This was around the time the school got there cameras put in, over the summer.  My point is..it sounded as though they have had those cameras in place well before the school got theirs..as in we already have security cams.

Then think about where Terri's truck was supposed to be parked in the recreation photos..sort of along side the road, blocking the access road.  I keep thinking that the LE have a video of her truck parked there. They seem to be very concrete on the fact of where she was parked that morning.  This may be how they know rather not Kyron left the school with her.

What type of man would help Terri carry out this deed?  A pedo..  Could it be Terri hooked up with a pedo inorder to coax him to take Kyron?  Could she have set this whole thing up because she hated Kaine and Kyron both...MFH was not getting any takers..but a pedo would jump at the chance.  And a disappeared Kyron would settle her own problems with Kyron..and hurt Kaine immeasurably for the rest of his life.  Desiree said the writings she was shown Terri wrote of how much she hated both KH and Kyron.

Wow. Thanks for posting that video, Puzzler.
I wonder if she kept an online diary or something for them to know that she wrote everything down.
You'd think with all that they know that an arrest would be imminent.

akmom and 11 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hmmmm, kind of weird ::MonkeyDevil::

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html

FBI will dedicate up to six agents to help investigate the Kyron Horman disappearance

(snip)  The FBI will be dedicating up to six agents to help with the criminal investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman, following a recent review of the local task force's nearly nine-month investigation by FBI agents who specialize in child abduction cases. (snip)

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html

(snip)  "I'm disappointed this isn't over with. I'm disappointed we haven't found this young man," Staton said. "I don't put the blame on our investigators...Everybody who has been involved in this has worked on this case as diligently as possible. We know more about what potentially did happen than we ever did in the past. The biggest hope is we would have found him."

By mid-June, if there's been no arrest, Staton said he will review the task force's progress once again. "One thing I can assure you, if this case stagnates and there's nothing more coming in, we'll have to take a different approach."  (snip)

Desiree says at one point that LE is searching an 11-acre area East of Skyline School.

the eve that kyron was reported missing,i thought they searched that area,for something
like 2-3 days,when they thought he had wandered off,seems like it was raining the whole
time the searchers were looking
JMO
so could there have been a pre dug grave,and it would have been hard to see, in all the new 
mud that the constant rain caused

refresher map
http://tinyurl.com/49cykj3
Desiree pc
http://www.katu.com/home/video/116678914.html

SNIP SNIP
"We're not going to back off on this investigation," Staton said Wednesday. "We may not have it solved, and it may not be to the satisfaction of some, but the fact is they're making progress."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html

Thank you for this article Puzzler. 

 I am glad to hear the FBI will be dedicating up to 6 agents full time....I think they will get the job done.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html
FBI will dedicate up to six agents to help investigate the Kyron Horman disappearance
Published: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 4:00 AM
 By Maxine Bernstein, The Oregonian
 

SNIP SNIP
Investigators have identified more than 490 people who were at the school June 4, as well as the 54 vehicles parked on the campus that day, Staton said. To do that, they had to examine photographs taken at the school during the science fair, sometimes checking the license plates of cars appearing in the background.

"The actual account of everyone and everything that was on that campus that day, we now know," he said.
-------

there is that car count again,it says parked on the campus,
and everything that was on that campus that day....so does that
mean other cars parked around the school,like on the road shoulder 
and the church,are not accounted for yet,im just not getting that
car count

I was really glad to hear about the FBI agents being dedicated, too....it renews my hope.

Staton reports he knows the story of the 490+ people at the school that morning and the 54 cars.

With the Task Force continuing to at least mid-June and the "addition" of up to 6 FBI agents, it does make me think that the on-going investigation is about much more than just Terri.  I sure hope so.  I want every single person involved to be brought to justice.

Good question.  They are "defining" it, aren't they.  What about cars that just came for a few minutes and then left?

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html

(snip)   Investigators on the multi-agency Kyron Horman Task Force have subpoenaed more than 300 sets of e-mail, cellular phone and computer records, and have hired private technical specialists, including a cellular phone engineer from California, to assist in their review.

"We've collected those items, and now it's going to take time to get through all of it," Staton said. (snip)

~~~~~~~~~
Okay...300 sets of records.
 
A person would have: computer, cell phone, e-mails (3) items (or would they have more?)
 
Meaning 100 people are being investigated electronically?



How many "people's" records are being investigated?  Very interesting.

Yes, another update:

The meeting has been changed to 10:30 am.

Thanks Sassi! :D

Given the weather in Portland this a.m. (snow), I'd be so happy if they still meet!  So, does it just look like a delay then, to 10:30, and NOT a cancellation?!?  Yay.  Thanks.

 ::MonkeyKiss::

Just a delay Koko. You know how we Oragonian's can't drive in snow!  ::MonkeyWink::

Oops! Meant Oregonian's.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm not expecting much from it though, unless one of the council members has the kahoonies to speak up and ask questions. I would.  ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyAngel::

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html)

::MonkeyGavel::

LOL.  Yes.  The city has come to a standstill... am so surprised they are still meeting!  I heard on the radio this a.m. that the Portland City Council Meeting has been cancelled.

 ::MonkeyKiss::

Thanks SO MUCH for the info/update!  :)

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Sigh.  Sassi, could you just trot on over there, PLEASE, and start asking questions? I'd pay good money/bananas to watch that from the comfort of my own computer!

 ::monkeywine2::

Thanks Sassifrass.  So, that would be l:30 ET.

They would probably throw me out Koko! Then I would be really embarrassed from running around the room, trying to fight them off! Sounds like a cut scene from the Three Stooges.  ::MonkeyDevil::

Btw, just a note. They did say that sometimes the meetings will start a bit earlier, or a bit later, so just keep that in mind if you are trying to stream it live.

I resemble that remark!

I hope that meeting still happens. Figures the weather is an issue after this long wait.

Haha Curly!

The web site was updated about an hour and a 1/2 ago, or so. It remains at 10:30am. No cancellations posted. The roads are just wet around Portland, so I think it will be good to go.

video is about to start.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image85.png)

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image86.png)

http://multnomah.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=3&event_id=2

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image87-1.png)
DA asked if they were on the right track, he replied, they are. And their obligation is to present a case that will be upheld in a court of law.

Staton said the case is going "strongly" at this time. Reassessment scheduled for June.

BBM

Thanks Brandi! Just to add to that Rod Underhill added to that statement, "without someone, an outside source, being able to poke holes in it. We want to be sure the person or persons responsible for this are brought to justice."

I'll bet he was referring to Houze.

Duly noted & OO-oo-ps!  Sorry!  I will refrain from posting too much content from that publication in the future!  -- K. Cat

FBI steps up role in search for missing Oregon boy

<snipped>

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — The FBI is increasing its role in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, the 7-year-old Oregon boy who was last seen in June at his Portland school.

The Oregonian reports up to six agents will help the task force investigating the case.

<snipped>

http://www.kval.com/news/local/116849803.html

Okay...I got to see Staton thank the commissioners, them to thank him, and Staton walk away.  Ha!  Not much!

Would someone please let me know if the report went basically like the interview in the paper this morning?

Were there any surprises?

Thank you.

I think they just want a solid case without flaw, or that would raise doubt in the minds of the jury. If it takes until June to make the evidence stick, then that's what it takes. As long as it sticks.

 Many of the LE and SAR people have been on this case from day one, and have witnessed the emotional roller coaster within the family, and events within the investigation. IMO, I feel their very dedicated to bringing justice to Kyron, and the family closure.

No surprises Puzzler.

One last thing before I have to get going.


Whether TH is implicated or not,and I know it may not be the right thing to say but, "I sure in heck wish TH didn't hire Houze!" He's like a Johnny Cochran! He could poke holes in anything. If I hear him say, just once,"If it doesn't fit, you must acquit", I'm going to vomit.  :smt078 After I shoot him with my laser gun.  :smt068

J/k. Have a good day Monkeys.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Sassi - TY

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/commissioners_express_surprise.html

Kyron Horman: Multnomah County commissioners surprised by added FBI agents

(snip)  Two Multnomah County commissioners this morning said they were surprised to learn through The Oregonian of the added involvement by the FBI in the ongoing criminal investigation into missing Kyron Horman.  (snip)

Thanks for the updates.  Glad to still see determination to resolve this and bring justice for Kyron.

Hi Gypsy DD,
I remember asking about the cameras at the church as well. It was a while back on scared monkeys. If I remember correctly, someone (maybe hellokitty) said that the cameras were put there after Kyron went missing. I wish I knew what page this was on. I am pretty sure it was several threads back.

I checked out Anita Kissee’s (reporter at KATU Portland) Twitter and found a tweet talking about reporter’s notes from Staton’s report to the commissioners; however, it’s Facebook and I don’t do Facebook.

http://twitter.com/anitakissee

Maybe someone who does Facebook could open it and copy and paste her notes here.  Would love to know what she noted (I missed the live report).

Here's a copy of the tweet itself:

Don't often do this but - because you are all so interested in #KyronHorman investigation, I'm sharing my notes:

 http://tinyurl.com/4qdkv24

Hi Puzzler,
This is what comes up

This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
Return home

Maybe it is busy? Not sure. I will try again later.

I got the same message.
Maybe it was removed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html

(snip)  "We're not going to back off on this investigation," Staton said Wednesday. "We may not have it solved, and it may not be to the satisfaction of some, but the fact is they're making progress."   (snip)

BBM - Glad to hear they're still making progress. 

Really wonder what LE has discovered in their investigation that the FBI has commited so many agents.  This seems to be like a big push.  But on what?   

Then, additionally, the "experts" to check out the cell records of over 300 supoened sets of cell, email and computer records.
Obviously, that means they are checking the records of many people.  What would they be checking that requires forensics on long trails of electronics?

I find this very interesting.  I did pick up on Capt. Gates comment that this was an “extraordinary complicated investigation” “on a number of levels”.   Wasn’t sure what the “levels” part meant, though.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-39/#comments

1.   puzzled says:
February 25, 2011 at 10:50 am

These two statements represent the status of this case …

…“It’s an extraordinary complicated investigation on a number of levels. That’s the bottom line,” said Capt. Jason Gates with the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.

and Staton said …
“It’s not an easy case and you know if it was an easy case we would have solved it months ago, that’s just it”

“on a number of levels”= more than one suspect
B

Look what I found – the reporter notes by Anita Kissee.  No, I didn’t get them from Facebook, but from ProBoard’s site where the GLP group started up a forum after GLP shut down Kyron’s forum (I highlighted in blue a couple of notes that stood out to me:

http://stillstanding2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=kyronhorman&action=display&thread=16&page=41

Reporter Notes - Kyron Horman Update
by Anita Kissée Katu-tv on Thursday, February 24, 2011 at 3:17pm

TROUBLE OPENING? CLICK THE "??? MINUTES AGO" LINK... NOT THE TITLE.

I don't nornally do this but...

Because I know so many of you are interested in every single word said/written about Kyron Horman, I'm sharing my notes on today's presentation to Mutlnomah County Commissioners and the interview afterward. (Ignore the numbers before/after the lowercase letters... those are time code for the soundbites that my editor will use later.)

My stories on this will be on tonight at 5 and 6:30pm.


NOTES:

LOOK AT PROGRESS SHERIFF’S OFFICE HAS MADE

TASK FORCE

FRESH SET OF EYES – KEEP ON TRACK


Sheriff Dan Staton

146 To date this investigation has developed 4318 investigative leads. 52


4318 INVESTIGATIVE LEADS

3500 INTERVIEWS

66 BINDERS OF INFORMATION

subpoenaed more than 300 sets of e-mail, cellular phone and computer records,

contacted 124 sex offenders, but the sheriff would not comment on whether they've been excluded as suspects.

4200 HOURS - PARTNERING AGENCIES

490 PEOPLE IDENTIFIED THAT WERE ON SITE WHEN DISAPPEARED

54 LOCATED VEHICLES AT LOCATION

19,783 VOLUNTEER HOURS OF SEARCH AND RESCUE


Fiscal year 2010 604,088.50

Fiscal Year 2011 835,338.87

Total $1,439,427.37


PART-TIME SGT, TWO FULL TIME DETECTIVES, 1 PART TIME TECNICIAN, PART TIME SAR


OTHER –

DEPART OF JUSTICE TECHNICIAN RESEARCH MATERIALS THROUGH SEARCH WARRANTS, 1 COMMUNICATION TECH EXPERT – CELL PHONES TOWERS, 1 BEHAVIOR PSYCHOLOGIST


433 The belief is that we are moving forward in this investigation and is continuing very strongly at this particular point in time. 39

WILL REASSESS IN JUNE – IF NO ARREST OR SUSPECT IDENTIFIED


Loretta Smith - Commissioner

THANKED

510 As a mother I can only imagine the horror the family is feeling at this point. But as a county commissioner I want to find out specifically, and this is directly to the DA, are we on the right track 25


Rod Underhill – Chief Deputy DA

528 The answer to the question commissioner, are we on the right track,

533 Short answer is yes, long answer is our obligation both as law enforcement investigators and district attorneys is to create a case that is provable in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. 49

REQUIRES TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK AND EVIDENCE

SOMEONE WILL BE THERE TO PICK EACH OF IT APART

ADVISING THEM AS THEY GO.


658 We will work and work and work until this matter is resolved03


711 Whether it’s Saturday at 10am, or Friday at 9pm, it’s not an eight to five. It is getting the job done. 22

FEEL DUTY AND OBLIGATION TO REACH CONCLUSION


825 Absolutely we’re on the right track, absolutely.


FBI INVOLVEMENT

GET THAT DON’T HAVE AT A LOCAL LEVEL

EXPERTISE IN THIS AREA



Sheriff

919 I’m very grateful they have offered this up to us and provided us with this opportunity. 26


Cpt. JW Gates

BRIEFING – LET BOARD AND PEOPLE KNOW WHERE ARE IN INVESTIGATION

HOW FUNDS BEING SPENT


FBI PARTNER FROM DAY ONE

BEHAVIOR ANALYSIS, TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, PROFILING SUSPECTS, WHENEVER NEEDED



420 DAYS OF TASK FORCE

NEW STRATEGIES FROM HERE ON OUT

1138 And… we need more people

1144 There are not many agencies that are able to provide six bodies by asking and the FBI is able to do that. 49



NATIONAL PROGRAMS THEY CAN USE, FORENSICS, EXPERTISE IN CHILD ABDUCTION

1226 That doesn’t hurt the already top notch investigators that we have involved in this investigation from several different agencies. 35



COST FOR OT – 115-THOUSAND DOLLARS – OUT OF BUDGET COSTS



KYRON’S STATUS – NOT GIVING INFO ON WHETHER THINK ALIVE OR NOT



1324 We’re looking at data that can be in the multimillion input data points and so having people that can forensically deal with that, important to this case.

1335 It’s a monumental task, monumental amount of information and what that does is free up our investigators, our criminal investigators to track down leads and investigate and do interviews and those types of things rather than go through miles and miles of data 51



RIGHT TRACK?

1404 I believe that’s an absolutely legitimate question, I absolutely believe we’re on the right track. We want one of two outcomes here: We want to, number one, solve this case, and that is really what we want. And the second option is we want to have done everything we possibly could have done in order to solve this case 22



DOESN’T DO ANY GOOD TO PRODUCE SPECULATION TO US

1458 We are obligated to investigate this case as professionally as we possibly can.

1505 When the time is right and we have a suspect in custody, you’ll know it. 10



DESIREE’S ACTIONS THIS WEEKEND

1532 we did not authorize that.


Anita: 1537 For you to be here this many months later… what is that like for you personally?

1542 The frustrating part of it is, we haven’t solved this case, but what I can tell you is that as professionals, for me, oversight over people doing investigation, my job to make sure they’re supported and that they have the tools they need to do this investigation and to develop strategies. I’m a policy person and I need to support that process and I do that for them and as my obligation, and the sheriff’s obligation to the public that we serve 13

1615 I can’t say that I’m frustrated at this point, I’d say the first month I was frustrated because we wanted to find that kid like right now. Now that we are embedded in this investigation at this point, I say that what we need to have is an attitude of steadfast. We need to be steadfast in what we’re doing and continue on with this investigation until one of two outcomes has been achieved. 34


A LOT OF KIDS MISSING… THIS SPECIAL?

AMAZING AMOUNT OF RESOURCES?

SCHOOL?

1650 It’s because he was taken out of school, but also at the bottom line is…

1655 As you can tell because we’re at where we’re at today

1658 it’s an extraordinarily complicated investigation on an amount of levels. 01 That’s the bottom line. It’s not an easy case and you know if it was an easy case we would have solved it months ago 09 that’s just it.


Anita: 1712 How much did the public pressure play in to that? Considering how many people are interested in finding Kyron?

1717 Well, you know I can certainly say public opinion, public pressure and amount of attention this has achieved has played a part, as public opinion in our country does. 30

1734 But with respect to how we’re doing out investigation… it doesn’t play a part.

1738 An investigation is an investigation that we have experts, professionals that put together the strategies on a number of levels on how to proceed 47

EXPENSE…

1754 we don’t know how much this is going to cost. We haven’t put a cap on it. We need to achieve one of two things: we need to either solve this case or come to a semi-conclusion by having done everything we could possible do. 09

VERY TRANSPARENT WITH REGARD TO COST

DECREASING – WORKING TO KEEP TRACK

NOT ASKING FOR MORE MONEY – CONTINUE WITH WHAT HAVE


NOT PUTTING A TIMELINE ON THIS – NOT SPECULATING WHAT WILL HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT BRIEFING IN JUNE

1909 I pretty much hope from the bottom of my heart that we will have solved this case, but I can’t tell you one way or the other.

Well, I guess by attempt at changing the color of the words didn’t work.  Here’s the two items I noted:


DESIREE’S ACTIONS THIS WEEKEND
1532 we did not authorize that.


1650 It’s because he was taken out of school, but also at the bottom line is…
1655 As you can tell because we’re at where we’re at today
1658 it’s an extraordinarily complicated investigation on an amount of levels. 01 That’s the bottom line. It’s not an easy case and you know if it was an easy case we would have solved it months ago 09 that’s just it.

Thanks Puzzler.

Not aimed at you, I am just overwhelmingly frustrated with this situation.  I feel like I learned a whole lotta nuttin' from that report.  Kyron, I wish we could find you.

It is frustrating.

I took from it that LE has continued to be very active in looking for Kyron but they don't have the evidence they need.
I've read on a number of forums that all this FBI presence is coming in to help the Sheriff wrap up his case.  FBI doesn't do wrap-up for local LE.

We now know that profilers were with local LE during January and from their work came the commitment for up to 6 agents to help local LE through mid-June.  IMO, that means the profilers in January came up with places to search, people to investigate, etc.  And the scope must be pretty big because FBI is commiting 6 agents to it...that's above and beyond the Task Force in place.  It makes me think that their scope has expanded way out. 

Terri has been disected for almost 9 months....after all this time...FBI is not putting 6 agents on the case to check her out.  No, those agents are to check out others.  Hopefully, it's the up to 2 accomplices that LE thinks are involved.  But, it's definately something big, because on top of these 6 FBI agents, there's the experts at technolog, cell records and towers, and physocology.

Over 300 sets of electronic records have been subpoened.  That's a lot and they've brought in an expert to mine the information from all those records.  Those records would mean that many people are being investigated.  More than just Terri and her friends, IMO.

So, I don't know what to make of all of it, but I do know that his is a big deal with all these experts and FBI agents added.  IMO this is NOT a "wrap-up".  LE is going after the "ones".  They do NOT know who the ones are because we've just been told if they don't have a conclusion by mid-June, they will be making changes.

I learned a lot:  they're still going full-speed ahead on the investigation, that the investigation is huge, and they can't name a suspect. 

Thank you for the interpretation, Puzzler, what you have explained does give me some hope.  I just cannot wrap my mind around what has happened to Kyron.  You would think that if this is very involved and there are multiple suspects that someone, somewhere would make a mistake and be caught.

Thanks Puzzler for all your work here.  IMO Blink could be right and what has made this investigation so complicated could be their focus on an accomplice.  That could be explained why this special 'ping' investigator from Ca will now examine {all} the pings in the case.  The FBI also calling in a forensic psychologist {think that is right} could also be working on the accomplice angle ~ LE has already stated they believe there is another person in the case and wish I had a link to that.

I heard on a newscast last week there were 3 specialists the FBI is working with.  Do you know if they are part of the 6 and who the 3rd specialist would be?   Ta


ETA:  Also, looking at Anita's notes, she writes:  "KYRON’S STATUS – NOT GIVING INFO ON WHETHER THINK ALIVE OR NOT



1324 We’re looking at data that can be in the multimillion input data points and so having people that can forensically deal with that, important to this case.

1335 It’s a monumental task, monumental amount of information and what that does is free up our investigators, our criminal investigators to track down leads and investigate and do interviews and those types of things rather than go through miles and miles of data 51

Staten doesn't say whether they believe Kyron is dead or alive, but also he does not say they have no evidence as to either way as has been stated before, right?  I still think they might have discovered some evidence of his death but just haven't located his remains yet.  There is something they have told Desiree for her change her belief, now thinking Kyron won't be found alive.  IMO

Scandi, as I understand it, the experts are in addition to the FBI agents.

The experts are:

http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/story/Kyron-Horman-investigation-continues-with-F-B-I/6NQmsg9WrkCCyKU1O1ohtw.cspx

The local costs include experts hired for cell tower and cell phone expertise, a private behavioral specialist and an information technology specialist, he said.

TY puzzler

54 LOCATED VEHICLES AT LOCATION

i thought this note worthy too,thats 54 checked and 90+ to go
per my post
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9317.msg1305506#msg1305506


yes

Thanks Puzzler,  Reading that do you think the cell phone man and the IT specialist  are with the FBI?  It only specifies one of these people are private.  Also, what is an information technology specialist and what would they be concentrating on.  I have no idea ???

I keep thinking about Desiree giving out that specific info of LE now searching 11 miles east of Skyline school.  Since the last searches we know about were not east but NW of the school, I wonder if they gave a different direction to avoid lots of lucky lou's showing up in the vicinity.  But somehow I think the 11 miles away from the school could be true.

Has anyone taken a map and drawn a circle equal to 22 miles with the school being the center point?  I don't know how to do that but it would be most interesting to see if the line would go thru the area of the last 2 searches or places where they've searched on SI.

The other thing is has anyone tried to place Terri's route that day, street to street, from where we have learned she was at certain times.  That might be interesting to put together with an area 11 miles away from the school.

The only 2 times I recall are the truck being seen at 10:30am at Skyline and Germantown Rd {from a LE preser} and then the possible 911 call made from a person who witnessed the Horman truck {supposedly} sliding off the road into a ditch at 11am on SI after racing with another vehicle.

I believe I read that the cell phone and cell tower expert from CA was hired by the county; information technology specialist would concentrate on anything electronic – computers, smartphones – any electronic communication – emails, texting, tweeting, etc.

(snip)   The team of investigators assigned to the case includes an expert in information technology and a communications technology expert hired out of California to look over cell phone and cell tower data. There is also a behavioral psychologist helping in the case, Staton said.   (snip)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/25/kyron-horman-investigation-gets-boost-fbi/

Puzzler, thanks for the links you've provided recently. 

I just feel LE knows where they're going (at least I hope so) and just need to nail it down with solid evidence. imo.

Prayers for Kyron and his loved ones.   ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::HelloKitty::

my fear is that she had someone drive a cell phone over there and she did something totally different,  But hopefully, the driver would tell if that was the case.

 ::HelloKitty::
is it possible she might have "accidentally on purpose" left her cell phone in
another's car without telling him/her?

Surely, anyone finding a cell phone that's not their would call the owner and let them know...if not, when all this came up about Kyron, I would hope that any person with any information at all would immediately have come forward - especially with all the information out in the news about Terris answers and the pings not matching up.  LE doesn't have to tell the truth and they could have told Terri her answers and the pings weren't matching up during a certain time period because they wanted to engage her in more conversation during that time.  I hope that's not the case.

including bat phones or clean phones ... as they're called ... even cloned phones, if one was used ... FBI technology has the capability, like no other, to break into and track all the lines of communication ...
 
am wondering if ... a unidentifiable line to a suspect popped out and LE ... no locals anywhere ... didn't have the skill to "crack" and trace the line ...
 
FBI is looking at every single line of communication for every person identified that day ... betcha ... or ... they've identified certain individuals ... more likely ... and want to see where it leads and to whom ....

Thanks Puzzler, You're a peach    ::rhino::

One thing I got out from Staton in that conference was I think everything they are doing is to:  "533 Short answer is yes, long answer is our obligation both as law enforcement investigators and district attorneys is to create a case that is provable in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think they believe this is doable and has as much to do with other/s involved as the initiator of the crime.  Detail exactly the electronics involved and prove the accomplice thru psychological profiling.

I read somewhere part of this could be about those throw-away phones.  They might tell the tale, eh?

xox

I think one thing that will be difficult for LE to determine is if it was Terri who had the phone. By her saying she was not where LE had said she was then to me it seems she is disputting it.

Do you remember how many of these phones there were and did we learn who got them?  I think DS had one.

I found this from the Hinky Meter:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/08/09/kyron-horman-case-did-dede-spichers-info-renew-ground-search/ (http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/08/09/kyron-horman-case-did-dede-spichers-info-renew-ground-search/)

" . . It has been reported that at least one of these friends testified that pre-paid cell phones were purchased by two or three of the friends for Terri and themselves to use so that their conversations would not be monitored. It is reported that false names were used to purchase at least three of the phones. MCSO has stated they can, indeed, track pre-paid phones, it will just take them a bit longer."

What I recall off the top of my head is that Houze's investigator advised Terri to get a clean phone so that she could talk with Houze.  Her girlfriends around her at the time had different carrier services and couldn't use their phones in Terri's rural area.
So the girlfriends got clean phones, too, and that was DeDe and the three other girlfriends that testified before the Grand Jury.
I'm sorry, but I can't remember their names.  If there were any others who obtained clean phones, I'm not aware of them. 

This is what frustrates me more then anything in this case. We have threads and threads of cases of family involvement in the disappearance of children. It takes usually about a week, sometime a bit less, sometimes a bit more to figure out who is responsable. Just off the top of my head there are the Hailey Dunn and Zahra cases. In this case though, we have a long stream of agencies such as the FBI profilers and the FBI behavioral unit. What the hell is going on in this case? We have all of these small players, Terri, DeDe, a landscaper...Are these small people so darn smart to outwit all of these investigators?
I agree with puzzler, this is bigger then just Terri the portland housewife. I think she has a hand but they are not after the small fish but the big shark.

I keep going back to the Sherriffs comment that they found out things they wished they hadn't...that we'd be surprised.

Terri and her friends must have made some associations that were very deplorable..and somehow I believe that intertwines into this crime.  If Terri was sadistic ..which I believe she was..that means she may have set up a scenario where Kyron was going to be used by someone to teach him a lesson.  Rather it was sexual or torture or the two combined IDK. 

She invited the vampire in..and she infact knew Kyron would pay the price. Who her cohorts are....that remains to be seen.  But she felt comfortable enough with her friendship with at least one individual to let them know she hated Kaine and Kyron and would like to see Kyron hurt in, as Desiree says, the worst possible way.  Those are not feelings most people would confess to a friend in an email, letter or even over the phone.  Terri must have felt very comfortable with those feelings and her friendship to disclose that to someone.

Did she hand him over to a pedo who murdered him or was that the plan all along?  I think that is part and parcel of what LE is trying to get at..they need all the peprs in this crime tried..and they need physical evidence.

 ::HelloKitty::

I think that it's a total rumor that Houze said to get a clean phone.

I imagine what happens is that TH calls and makes an appt to see him.  He is not some fly by night shyster.

I doubt if he plays games.  There is no need for a clean phone.  None.  There is no way he would be talking private stuff over the airwaves that can be picked up. 

I do wonder who she told that she hated Kyron

I totally agree.  I believe (and I could be wrong!) that this bit about Houze telling her to get a clean phone originated with Dede or Flymonkey.  I don't believe she would be conveying important, incriminating, info to Houze over the phone.  If she was just calling him to make appts. or meet up with him somewhere, she would not need a "clean" phone.

I keep thinking this as well.  That she gave him to someone knowing what he'd have to endure and with the promise that he'd never be found.  I think LE found out just what a monster she is.  Terry has always reminded me of Melissa Huckaby.  I can't explain why.  She just always has.

All of the snow and rain of the past week is causing mudslides in the area.  I don't think conditions will be right for searching for a while.  But if there is evidence out there, maybe it will be uncovered.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Blizzard-for-Cascades-strong-wind-and-rain-in-Portland-Monday-117020328.html

Bringing over two interesting posts from BOC:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-41/#comments


1.   Lea Conner says:
February 26, 2011 at 1:54 am
Part 1
mosaic says: February 24, 2011 at 4:55 pm
“I found this exchange very interesting:
“Commissioner Smith: ‘…I wanted to ask you that my assumptions are correct that we are on the right track.’
“Deputy District Attorney Underhill: ‘When you ask “right track,” I want to make sure I’m understanding what right track means.
“Commissioner: ‘By continuing to go forward with this investigation.’
“DA: ‘Absolutely, we are on the right track. Absolutely.’
http://www.kgw.com/news/Sheriff-to-update-latest-on-Kyron-Horman-investigation-116491183.html
“With his hesitation at the words “right track”, could the DDA be suggesting that the investigation has been following a dead end? It seems to reinforce that niggling feeling that the answer is not where we think it is.”
puzzled says: February 25, 2011 at 10:50 am
“These two statements represent the status of this case …
“…’It’s an extraordinary complicated investigation on a number of levels. That’s the bottom line,’ said Capt. Jason Gates with the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.
“and Staton said …’It’s not an easy case and you know if it was an easy case we would have solved it months ago, that’s just it’
Blink says:
“‘on a number of levels’= more than one suspect B”
Add to this Capt. Jason Gate’s comment that suggests this investigation may become a cold case:
“One of Staton’s top aides, Capt. Jason Gates, told reporters Thursday that investigators hope to bring things to an end ‘either by solving the case or coming to a semi-conclusion by having done all that we can do.’”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014319232_apusmissingoregonboy.html
The six agents who are joining the investigation are stationed in Portland, Ore. They are not from the Behavioral Analysis Unit in Quantico, Virginia.
The six Portland-based agents who are joining in the investigation will be working with the Kyron Horman Task Force. The task force has been working with FBI profilers since Kyron went missing.
Here’s where it gets interesting: Profilers from the Behavioral Analysis Unit made two trips to Oregon to assist in the Kyron Horman investigation: “They have twice been in Oregon to help with the case, once right after Kyron was reported missing and again late last month for several days, said Beth Anne Steele, a bureau spokeswoman.”
http://hosted2.ap.org/txdam/54828a5e8d9d48b7ba8b94ba38a9ef22/Article_2011-02-24-Missing%20Oregon%20Boy/id-ff6997a748ae464d9a625b315b189335
The most Oregon visit by FBI profilers late January 2011 as part of the Kyron Horman investigation coincides with the multi-agency manhunt for David Anthony Durham.
Law enforcement has never connected the two cases, even though the are around David Durham’s home was searched as part of the Kyron Horman investigation.
Continued….

2.   Lea Conner says:
February 26, 2011 at 1:56 am
Part 2
David Durham is accused of shooting a police officer on the Oregon Coast just before midnight on Sunday January 23, 2011. Monday night (January 24, 2011), “more than a dozen police cars, even an ambulance, raced down Sauvie Island Road and police set up a roadblock to Durham’s house.”
http://www.katu.com/news/114534899.html.
Prior to the shooting, David Durham told people that the FBI was “out to get him.”
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/25842189-41/durham-police-fbi-lincoln-affidavit.csp
http://www.policeone.com/Fugitive/articles/3257196-Friends-Ore-officer-shooting-suspect-is-paranoid/
According to the criminal complaint filed in federal court, David Durham had been “selling off all his personal belongings, telling persons that he was going to travel to the Caribbean and live on an island there” in the three weeks prior to allegedly shooting a police officer in Lincoln County, Oregon. The Lincoln County Major Crimes Team recovered David Durham’s U.S. Passport, which indicated he had “traveled in the past to Thailand.”
“Neighbor Nancy Meyer told KGW-TV she heard him discuss delusions about aliens and Armageddon. One of his delusions focused on law enforcement. ‘He’s convinced the police are going to come and get him,’ Meyer told the TV station. ‘He’s packed his bags, and he’s ready to go in case Armageddon happens.’
“‘He had some bizarre behavior,’ co-worker Shauna Hendgen told the Oregon newspaper. ‘He thought people were out to get him.’ Her 17-year-old daughter, Hannah, said Durham was deeply upset by the end of a relationship with his girlfriend. She added that Durham thought the police and the FBI were out to get him.”
http://www.policeone.com/Fugitive/articles/3257196-Friends-Ore-officer-shooting-suspect-is-paranoid/
The following text previously appeared on America’s Most Wanted (since removed):
“…through the course of their investigation, investigators learned Durham may not be traveling alone.”
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=76367
Previously referenced in post here:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-17/#comment-1663734
Either this is one big coincidence, or the searches on Dixie Mountain at the end of January 2011 had something to do with the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit’s concerns in relation to David Anthony Durham.
–30–

DON'T MISS THE DANA PRETZER SHOW TONIGHT AT 9PM ET:

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Hi GypsyDD,  I've often had the same thoughts as you about TH 'letting the vampire in'.  It could be a reason Kyron didn't want to go back to Portland  It could explain so many things, the seemingly 'Rock Star' lifestyle enjoyed in the Horman household {as we have read}.  That comes from early comments following articles on the case, so not confirmable.  It just seems to fit what we have learned about TH.  With Kaine he has always been a victim so it is inappropriate to look at him with a closer eye at this point IMO. 

Hello Monkeys,

Portland has been having such crazy weather . .  .perhaps  the mud slides, fallen trees and floods will only bring more people out to remote areas that might otherwise go unnoticed.

 snipped from KGW

"Debris tumbled onto Germantown Road and crews closed a stretch of the roadway Tuesday as a precaution. Elsewhere, mudslides were also causing closures on SW Tichner Drive and SW College Street. Downed trees were causing yet even more closures on NW Cornelius Pass Road, NW Skyline Blvd. and Larch Mountain Rd.
Cornelius Pass, Germantown and Larch Mountains roads as well as Skyline Boulevard were all reopened mid-afternoon Tuesday.
Edit to add link.  MB  http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Blizzard-for-Cascades-strong-wind-and-rain-in-Portland-Monday-117020328.html
Please include the link in your post when you bring articles to Scared Monkeys. (copy and paste the link)  Thanks.  MuffyBee
 :-|
I

Good morning and welcome to Scared Monkeys Dancing Butterfly!

  ::MonkeyEek::
Good Morning! I will be sure to post the link next time!
Thanks for the welcome.

Dancing Butterfly:  Welcome aboard!

 ::MonkeyCool::

Hope to see you again soon!

I don't post here very often, but did not want to risk having an entire day go by without anyone posting for Kyron. The thought of him, and his mom, keep me up at night...

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Prayers for Kyron and his family.
 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::FlyingFrog:: ::MonkeyAngel::

Good Morning Monkeys!  ::MonkeyAngel::

Below are some snippets of information about the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Behavioral Science Unit, and how it would play a roll in Kyron's case. I for one, am very happy they are on board.


 http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/criminal.aspx
 (http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/criminal.aspx)
<snipped>

In 1974, the FBI formed its Behavioral Science Unit to investigate serial rape and homicide cases. From 1976 to 1979, several FBI agents--most famously John Douglas and Robert Ressler--interviewed 36 serial murderers to develop theories and categories of different types of offenders.

Most notably, they developed the idea of the "organized/disorganized dichotomy": Organized crimes are premeditated and carefully planned, so little evidence is found at the scene. Organized criminals, according to the classification scheme, are antisocial but know right from wrong, are not insane and show no remorse. Disorganized crimes, in contrast, are not planned, and criminals leave such evidence as fingerprints and blood. Disorganized criminals may be young, under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or mentally ill.

Over the past quarter-century, the Behavioral Science Unit has further developed the FBI's profiling process--including refining the organized/disorganized dichotomy into a continuum and developing other classification schemes.

"The basic premise is that behavior reflects personality," explains retired FBI agent Gregg McCrary. In a homicide case, for example, FBI agents glean insight into personality through questions about the murderer's behavior at four crime phases:



      Antecedent: What fantasy or plan, or both, did the murderer have in place before the act? What triggered the murderer to act some days and not others?


      Method and manner: What type of victim or victims did the murderer select? What was the method and manner of murder: shooting, stabbing, strangulation or something else?


      Body disposal: Did the murder and body disposal take place all at one scene, or multiple scenes?


      Postoffense behavior: Is the murderer trying to inject himself into the investigation by reacting to media reports or contacting investigators?


<snipped>

Organized behaviors--like positioning or concealing a victim's body--are the "core variables" that tend to show up most frequently and co-occur with other variables most often, he found. The differences between murderers, the researchers say, instead lie in the types of disorganized behaviors they exhibit. The study suggests that serial murderers can be divided into categories based on the way they interact with their victims: through sexual control, mutilation, execution or plunder.


http://myportfolio.usc.edu/lamar/2009/09/criminal_profiling_the_validity_of_behavior_assessment.html
 (http://myportfolio.usc.edu/lamar/2009/09/criminal_profiling_the_validity_of_behavior_assessment.html)

<snipped>

Canter brought to light two essential aspects of profiling: modus operandi and signature. The reliability and validity of criminal psychology is best exhibited in these two terms. Modus operandi is the organized aspects of a crime, which are similar between many different offenders (reliability). While the signature is the actions that occur outside the primary crime itself and are specific of just one offender, which he repeats for every offense, such as stealing from the victim or mutilating the body (validity). Work like Canter's is exactly what the field needs. This type of research will be what leads to the acceptance of this method and the realization of the psychological community and the public as a whole that criminal profiling is a useful tool.