Caylee Marie Anthony-MURDER TRIAL-DAY 4 - 5/27/2011

[pharlap]

I'm sure it's posted elsewhere on SM, but here's a link to the state witness list.  We have only seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to those who know the goods on Casey (or should I say the "bads")

Here's some of the people who have good dirt on KC we haven't even heard from yet!:
KioMarie Cruz (offered to adopt Caylee from Casey!)
Amy Huizenga(sp?) (planned to move into the Ant's house, money stolen by KC, sleep walking claim by KC
Yuri Melich (cop she led around in circles)
Jeff Hopkins ("invented" an old acquaintance as recent friend)
Zanny!(the actual Fernandez-Golzalez)
John Allen
Kristina Chester (cried on the phone when KC first arrested over Caylee)
Annie Dowling (lived at Sawgrass with Dante! --methinks I remember Annie making some statement in the past about drugs or xanax? not sure)
Jesse Grund (ex boyf DNA tested when Caylee was first born, loved Caylee more than KC)
Shirly Pleasea (grandma - stole money from)

Tony Rusciano (cop who lost his job denying relationship with her)

Does anymonkey know where to find a current copy of the witness list? I've been Googling, but can't find one!

self edit oops my link was from 2008 and didn't include Tony Rusciano...deleted before I posted

Easier copy to read, well for me it is....

http://www.wftv.com/news/18008819/detail.html

[Cappuccino]

I do not trust George Anthony.  His revealed character is not above reproach.

Could there have been a defence strategy ... a defence strategy that implied that George was a willing participant in a desperate effort to save Casey?  Could the allegations of George's participation in a coverup in his granddaughter's death as well as the sexual abuse of Casey be all about planting a seed of doubt/confusion in the minds of jury members?  It only takes one holdout in deliberations and ... justice for Caylee would not prevail.

George is not on trial.  It was a given that he would deny Baez's allegations when questioned as a witness in the trial but ... those allegation could be considered the foundation for "reasonable doubt" by some jurors.

IMO

Janet

The agony this man is taking on the stand & real disdain he has for Bozo is as real as real gets, very palpable & it matches the same disdain he has displayed with others he has had the same feelings for ....i.e. John Morgan during the civil deposition when in fact he was strongly defending his daughter.  After Casey's jail letters to her friend came out, George confronted Casey via a letter on March 25, 2020 asking her why she would want to destroy her family, that was the first sign that he was stunned, getting fed up & extremely hurt.  It should also be noted that George was told about this by Bozo and Foghorn the day before & I hope it comes out that Casey & her defense team fabricated this.  It is no wonder why Bozo from the getgo cut Casey off from communication with her parents, beginning with insisting she go to his office daily when she was out on bond...Casey & Bozo conspired together to pull this stunt.  George's letter reads:

Casey Marie,

Where do I begin???

Well, met with Jose & Cheney Mason on Wednesday, March 24th.

Jose in Cheney Mason’s office delivered me disturbing news & ask me 2 heart breaking questions?

You know what 2 questions he asked.

and I am num ….. (sic)    My note:   the word is numb, snit I would be that and more after all this

Why, why also destroy Lee…

Why, why also destroy Mom…

Why, why also destroy me, your family…

Why, why also destroy Caylee Marie…

After all I have tried, sacrificed, continued to have you, my daughter, why???

Continually coming to court, continually wanting to see you, why???

Just stop to think how he or anyone would feel if someone publicly accused them of sexual abuse, incessant no less?  How many men does anyone here know that would volunteer to take on these horrendous allegations & possible criminal charges willingly for anyone...I know NONE.

[klaasend]

Page 3 of the autopsy report says the tape was clearly placed PRIOR to decomposition. 

http://blogs.discovery.com/files/caylee_anthony_autopsy01.pdf

[Puzzler]

I have a question about the Grand Jury hearing back in the Fall of 08. 

We know George testified, I am sure LE testified too.  But do we know who else might have testified?

Also yesterday wasn't the defense team saying they wanted a copy of the GJ hearing..and then Jeff said he would like to see a copy too?

If Jeff was asking for that, then who was the Prosecutor at that hearing? 

We know that JP was the judge, wouldn't have he ordered that sealed?

If he ordered it sealed is it then unsealed and given to each team at the trial?

And did someone say yesterday that JP was asking that someone give the jurors a copy of the GJ hearing?

Thank you for any insight you can give me into what all that was about yesterday.

The way I recall it is that Jeff said they "have a copy"...got a copy sometime back...they'll just give JP a copy and that will keep from the Judge having to track down the court reporter for the grand jury. (same time) (Judge said thanks)

[Cappuccino]

It was right around the 24th/25th that Casey was texting Amy that the car smelled & even tried to claim that her father borrowed the car.  There is NO reason for him to have borrowed the car & he in the witnessed meticulous manner he is would have taken care of it so its Casey making lies again, IMHO.  Her friends were in the car June 4th, before Caylee's murder.    I would say that Casey already went to Suburban Drive before the 24th & the plant evidence will put it there as well within two weeks, Id bank on it.   

Respectfully snipped  ::snipping2::

Capp

According to documents ... Casey communicated with Amy on June 27th regarding the squirrel ... the odor.  June 27th was the day Casey abandoned her vehicle.

Janet

 ::snipping2::

Not Cappy but if I remember right, Casey started telling Amy about the car smelling bad for a few days.  Then finally Casey tells her, that it WAS a dead squirrel because she found it plastered under the car.  I wonder if a smarter monkey could find the text messages between Casey and Amy and link the doc.   

On the 25th she told Amy about a bad smell in her car & on the 27th she told Amy there was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of her car. 

Listen to audio of Amy here:  http://brian.rollwiththechanges.org/casey3.html
Regarding June 26th, 2008 (including June 14th - June 26th, 2008) - Amy Huizenga recalls Casey saying "it smells like something died in my car".
Regarding June 27th, 2008 -Amy Huizenga Casey Anthony sends Text Message to Amy Huizenga:
"THERE WAS DEFINITELY PART OF A DEAD ANIMAL PLASTERED TO THE FRAME OF MY CAR".
Later Casey told Amy that her father George had hit a squirrel. Huizenga later tells Sheriff Deputies that Casey said, "I - ya know - got rid of it."

Thanks for the link Cappy, I thought I remembered Casey telling Amy about the smell more than one time, on more than one day. Those texts will have to come in, don't you think? 

Yes, these will come in because they are absolutely relevant to the case

[Puzzler]

Anyone have a good theory on exactly when the body was in the trunk and when Casey dumped the body on Suburban?

Could it be that on the afternoon of June 16th ... Caylee died from a drug overdose (chloroform) while her mother was at "work"?  The deceased baby was temporarily place inside the trunk.

Could it be that two days later Casey returned home while her parents were at work ... wrapped duct tape donning a sticker around the head of her deceased daughter in an attempt to stop the flow of body fluids ... placed Caylee wrapped in her Winnie the Pooh blanket in three plastic bags and ... buried her daughter in the back yard with a borrowed shovel?

Could it be that at a later date ... possibly with assistance (brother? boyfriend?) ... Casey retrieved a decomposing Caylee from the backyard of her parent's home ... the plastic bags leaking ... placed her in the trunk and ... took her to the location where the remains were discovered.

In other words ... Caylee's death was not intended but ... considering it was a result of wrongdoing ... a coverup happened ... not a call to 911

Janet

I agree that the tape was put there to stop the leaking of body fluids! I don't believe that Casey slowly suffocated her by wrapping the tape around.  All MOO, though.

Dr. G. (coroner) said the duct tape was put on the baby before death.

Pure evil.  Makes the duct tape the ultimate death weapon.  Definately homocide.

[Puzzler]

Hi Monkeys! Coming down from the rafters to ask if anyone thinks George's supposed girlfriend will be called to testify that he told her that "it was an accident that snowballed out of control"?   

IMO - definately - Baez will call her for that purpose

[trimmonthelake]

George had to leave the court room & motioned to his attorney to come out with him

I'm still catching up but just wanted to mention that George and Cindy's Attorney did do an interview on the the Today Show this week and made it clear that Baez would be looking at charges if he kept 'slandering' his client.  That was after the FIRST day George was on the stand.  I look for some kind of motion to be filed by the Anthony's attorney on this badgering of George Anthony.  George and Cindy both made mistakes, sure...but THEY ARE NOT ON TRIAL for little Caylee's murder.  That Bi&*( is.

do you have a link?

Hey Loca.  It was Mark Lippman that was on The Today Show.Here is the link from 05/26/2011.
http://www.clicker.com/tv/today-show/lawyer--casey-anthonys-parents-emotionally-torn-1816591/

[Puzzler]

Page 3 of the autopsy report says the tape was clearly placed PRIOR to decomposition. 

http://blogs.discovery.com/files/caylee_anthony_autopsy01.pdf

Klaas - TY

Hmmmm....why didn't the medical examiner - instead of saying the cause of death can't be determined  - say, while there could be other causes for the death which can't be determined, that the duct tape over the mouth and nose would cause death
by suffocation?

[BooMonkey]

Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU!!! The trial was so easy to follow with your commentary. A special thank you to Magic Eyes for all the details, I was able to get through it easy today and really get to the juicy parts!

 

[Cappuccino]

Page 3 of the autopsy report says the tape was clearly placed PRIOR to decomposition. 

http://blogs.discovery.com/files/caylee_anthony_autopsy01.pdf

Klaas - TY

Hmmmm....why didn't the medical examiner - instead of saying the cause of death can't be determined  - say, while there could be other causes for the death which can't be determined, that the duct tape over the mouth and nose would cause death
by suffocation?

Because even though there is going to be an expert to back Dr. G's conclusion, neither can say with certainty that it was the cause of death but it will elude to same.  Her observations upon autopsy such as condition of the jaw & that it was attached to her hair will conclude that it was placed thee prior to decomposition.

What I have always found compelling is that it was 3 pieces of duct tape & to the extent each piece wrapped around toward the back of her head, to me that indicates more than excessive & not just to keep her mouth shut.

[TURBOTHINK]

I do not trust George Anthony.  His revealed character is not above reproach.

Could there have been a defence strategy ... a defence strategy that implied that George was a willing participant in a desperate effort to save Casey?  Could the allegations of George's participation in a coverup in his granddaughter's death as well as the sexual abuse of Casey be all about planting a seed of doubt/confusion in the minds of jury members?  It only takes one holdout in deliberations and ... justice for Caylee would not prevail.

George is not on trial.  It was a given that he would deny Baez's allegations when questioned as a witness in the trial but ... those allegation could be considered the foundation for "reasonable doubt" by some jurors.

IMO

Janet

I don't trust him either - he had a meeting with Mason and bozo not too long before this trial as NG posted a letter talking about it. He made the remark about them asking him some questions.

I am sorry, but I put NOTHING past anyone in this family and as for his appearing sincere, he did way back when he was claiming to be searching for Caylee and he was at his girlfriend's house ripping her off for money.

KC does have all the symptoms of someone abused, but a sociopath will manipulate people to make it appear as if she has them. I have very mixed emotions about the sexual abuse allegation. He is a classic sociopath as is KC. I don't believe that would be why she had no emotions over Caylee. That is a hell of a leap to get from sexual abuse to killing your baby and exhibiting no emotions. Even an accidental death would provoke emotions, not gang banging guys. She did not think they would ever find Caylee & if the truth is known she put that log you see so often in pictures over her to keep her from being seen. The deep water most likely dislodged the bags with the body when it rose so rapidly in the hurricane.

I have never thought she "accidentally" killed her with chloroform. I have always felt like she killed her in a fit of rage. She may have been trying to use the chloroform and Caylee fought her which provoked her into that same type of rage, or little Caylee may have been crying for her grandmother and the hate for Cindy and the baby crying for her kicked her off. I also think she was into meth. When she first went to jail she slept for 3 days solid they said. That is usually a good indicator of coming off some type of speed.

If you look at that jail tape where she would drawing up her fists and screaming at her parents it would be easy to imagine her doing that to little Caylee and slamming her down or hitting her. I think LE thought that too because they took sheet rock out of that house. I think they were looking for blood on it.

[Tamikosmom]

George Anthony gives conflicting statements during Casey Anthony trial (videos)
May 27th, 2011 12:37 pm ET

George Anthony testified that he had taken time off of work on June 24, 2008 for personal reasons and was surprised when Casey Anthony showed up in his garage at approximately 10:00 am.

<snipped>

George Anthony stated during the prosecutor’s line of questioning that he couldn’t see in the trunk, nor did he smell anything unusual

During cross examination by lead defense attorney, Jose Baez, however, it was determined that during a previous FBI interview, George Anthony stated that he did look in the trunk of the vehicle and saw clothes were present.

<snipped>

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-tampa-bay/george-anthony-gives-conflicting-statements-during-casey-anthony-trial-videos


TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF GEORGE ANTHONY

Page 41
GA: As I got home I know it was like 2:25 or 2:30 as I'm inside getting ready for this
interview that I had a couple hours ahead of time or about 4:30, 5 o'clock. The garage door goes up. Who comes in the house, my daughter.

Page 44
SB: Okay. When she popped the trunk were you back at the back of the car?
GA: Yeah. Yeah. There was definitely I could see clothes back there.
SB: Okay.
GA: She has a plastic blue bin that collapsible... we all have 'em in our vehicles.
SB: Yes.

Page 45
GA: And ah, and the gas cans were inside this blue bin that she had. 'Cause she
pulled 'ern out...

June 29, 2009

http://files.realitychatter.com/CA/Docs/George-Anthony-FBI-Interview-7878-8000.pdf

[seemeatthebeach]

It "appears" that Blowhole "believes" there were several notices left by the postal service, (certified letter from Johnson's Towing) but George & Cindy admit to only one.

It makes me wonder........did KC destroy the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd notices????
We know she was going in & out of her house repeatedly when C & G weren't home.
We know from Cindy's deposition KC was intercepting the mail to keep Cindy from getting her statements for her Visa Card. Cindy had paid the balance & thought she closed the account. KC in turn charged roughly $4000.00 before she got a call from the bank. She knew KC was intercepting the mail because the bank must have informed her statements were being mailed to her every month.

KC did not want them to know her car was towed....no way, no how.
She was on a mission to avoid her parents for as long as possible. She knew the longer Cindy didn't find her, the less evidence would be found of Caylee, with Caylee & in her car. She knew d@mn well it would be towed. There were posted signs in the amscot parking lot.

I've just about convinced myself of this theory.....Blowhole was so sure of himself in court today regarding the  "several" notices being left by the USPS for the certified letter from Johnson's. Wayyyyy tooooo sure, IMO!

[Gypsy DD]

Hi Janet,

I think that Casey told Amy about the smell on more then one ocassion.

First it was just that it smelled bad, then she thought her Dad must have run over something..next it was a dead squirrel plastered to the underside of her car.  This was in a series of phone calls and texts...and I do believe the first mention of "the smell" to Amy was on the 24 or 25.  She just escalated the story from there and eventually said how really bad it was on the same day, the 27th, that she happened to abandon the car by a dumpster..hoping no one would think it was the car that smelled ..moreso the dumpster.
 

Thanks Gypsy.

When I read over the article I posted ... that is my understanding too.

Could it be that Casey's first communication with Amy (24th/25th) regarding the odor  was the day she retrieve Caylee from a backyard grave ... placed her in the trunk of her vehicle and ... took her daughter to the "pet cemetery"?  Could it be at that decomposing fluids leaked from the garbage bag containing Caylee into the interior of the trunk causing the odor?

Janet

+++++


The Shovel

May 25, 2011 2:55 PM
Neighbor testifies about shovel loaned to Casey Anthony, on trial for daughter's murder

(CBS/WKMG/AP) ORLANDO, Fla. - The Anthony family's neighbor, Brian Burner, who loaned Casey Anthony a shovel on June 18, 2008, testified Wednesday on day two of Anthony's trial for first degree murder. 

Burner said Anthony approached him around 1 p.m. that June day to ask to borrow the shovel, reports CBS affiliate WKMG.

"She said she wanted to borrow a shovel to dig up a bamboo root," Burner said, according to the station.

Burner also testified that he saw Anthony's car at the family's home on June 16, the same day her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, was last seen alive. That is also the date the defense says Caylee drowned in the Anthony family pool.

Earlier Wednesday, the defense tried to prevent Burner from taking the stand to testify about the shovel, reports WKMG.

<snipped>

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20066152-504083.html


Transcript of Brian Burner interview on July 30, 2008

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/092308brianburner/indexGallery.htm


The Backyard

Casey Anthony's Father To Testify Against Her In Front Of Grand Jury
POSTED: 5:56 pm EDT October 9, 2008
UPDATED: 7:33 am EDT October 10, 2008

Sources told Eyewitness News the Orange County grand jury will hear about high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. The panel will hear how lab tests on the hair and the stain in the trunk will show that Caylee's body was in that trunk and that investigators also believe the little girl's body was at some point in the Anthony's backyard near her playhouse.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17680298/detail.html

That is what I believe too..how a person could handle the dead, decomposing body of their own child..or any child for that matter, in such a way is beyond me..and I am thankful that it is.

[trimmonthelake]

George had to leave the court room & motioned to his attorney to come out with him

I'm still catching up but just wanted to mention that George and Cindy's Attorney did do an interview on the the Today Show this week and made it clear that Baez would be looking at charges if he kept 'slandering' his client.  That was after the FIRST day George was on the stand.  I look for some kind of motion to be filed by the Anthony's attorney on this badgering of George Anthony.  George and Cindy both made mistakes, sure...but THEY ARE NOT ON TRIAL for little Caylee's murder.  That Bi&*( is.

do you have a link?

Hey Loca.  It was Mark Lippman that was on The Today Show.Here is the link from 05/26/2011.
http://www.clicker.com/tv/today-show/lawyer--casey-anthonys-parents-emotionally-torn-1816591/

Date of video should be 05/25/2011.

[Puzzler]

I do not trust George Anthony.  His revealed character is not above reproach.

Could there have been a defence strategy ... a defence strategy that implied that George was a willing participant in a desperate effort to save Casey?  Could the allegations of George's participation in a coverup in his granddaughter's death as well as the sexual abuse of Casey be all about planting a seed of doubt/confusion in the minds of jury members?  It only takes one holdout in deliberations and ... justice for Caylee would not prevail.

George is not on trial.  It was a given that he would deny Baez's allegations when questioned as a witness in the trial but ... those allegation could be considered the foundation for "reasonable doubt" by some jurors.

IMO

Janet

I don't trust him either - he had a meeting with Mason and bozo not too long before this trial as NG posted a letter talking about it. He made the remark about them asking him some questions.

I am sorry, but I put NOTHING past anyone in this family and as for his appearing sincere, he did way back when he was claiming to be searching for Caylee and he was at his girlfriend's house ripping her off for money.

KC does have all the symptoms of someone abused, but a sociopath will manipulate people to make it appear as if she has them. I have very mixed emotions about the sexual abuse allegation. He is a classic sociopath as is KC. I don't believe that would be why she had no emotions over Caylee. That is a hell of a leap to get from sexual abuse to killing your baby and exhibiting no emotions. Even an accidental death would provoke emotions, not gang banging guys. She did not think they would ever find Caylee & if the truth is known she put that log you see so often in pictures over her to keep her from being seen. The deep water most likely dislodged the bags with the body when it rose so rapidly in the hurricane.

I have never thought she "accidentally" killed her with chloroform. I have always felt like she killed her in a fit of rage. She may have been trying to use the chloroform and Caylee fought her which provoked her into that same type of rage, or little Caylee may have been crying for her grandmother and the hate for Cindy and the baby crying for her kicked her off. I also think she was into meth. When she first went to jail she slept for 3 days solid they said. That is usually a good indicator of coming off some type of speed.

If you look at that jail tape where she would drawing up her fists and screaming at her parents it would be easy to imagine her doing that to little Caylee and slamming her down or hitting her. I think LE thought that too because they took sheet rock out of that house. I think they were looking for blood on it.

I thought that meeting was in March and was to ask George 2 questions and to ADVISE HIM that they were going to use this tactic in the trial.  One question would have been if he molested Casey.

After that meeting, advising George that they were coming after him is when George wrote the letter to Casey - WHY?

[wreck]

Page 3 of the autopsy report says the tape was clearly placed PRIOR to decomposition.  

http://blogs.discovery.com/files/caylee_anthony_autopsy01.pdf

While splitting hairs -- being placed before "decomposition" and before "death" are just a little different. Just playing devil's advocate here (Not believing it myself) -- but, the duct tape could have been placed immediately AFTER death to make it appear to be a kidnapping.

[Gypsy DD]

I think I am seeing this case very much like a juror.  I have watched the jury selection
and the trial, but didn't really follow the case like most of you did.
I have seen the pictures of the beautiful little Caylee.  I knew about the imaginary nanny,
and the smell in the car.   I even watched a little of the live cam outside the Anthony
home and saw the protesters.
I have gathered that many of you do not care for George or Cindy or Lee and certainly not
Casey.
However, I had no opinions on any of the family except Casey before the trial started.
I didn't even know the names of the Prosecution Team or the Defense Team.
What I have observed in the 4 days of trial is all new opinions.   I found Baez's opening
statement appalling and ridiculous.   It was nothing more than a ploy to create reasonable doubt.  It failed.   It was a brilliant move by the state to counter by
putting George Anthony on the stand immediately to deny the accusations  I believe
what George has said so far. 
I find George, as far as his appearances at this trial, to be that of a sad and broken man.
I despise Baez for the way he talks to George.  Baez has shown himself to be totally
inept and a bully.  I find it hard to believe that he can do anything to change my opinion.
I think the man from the wrecker service was right out of central casting and a great
witness for the state.  I believed every word he said.  I think Tony Lazzaro is believable
and a big help for the state.

So far I see the state laying out their case slowly and methodically and I, who know
nothing, am able to follow completely.

Great post Magnolia.

Very interesting to hear this from the prospective of someone who has not followed along intensely.  I hope you are right and that the jurors feel the same way.

I do pity the jurors with all the sidebars and Baez constant objections and inability to phrase questions properly...

[Tamikosmom]

Page 3 of the autopsy report says the tape was clearly placed PRIOR to decomposition. 

http://blogs.discovery.com/files/caylee_anthony_autopsy01.pdf

Prior to decomposition ... not prior to death!!

Thank Klaas

Considering the flurry of unanswered cell calls from Casey to Cindy ... my theory implies that Caylee died of a drug overdose (chloroforum) on the afternoon of June 16th and Casey retuned home on June 18th while her parents were at work.

Could it be that on June 18th the duct tape was wrapped around Caylees mouth with a sticker attached prior to wrapping Caylee in a Winnie the Pooh blanket ... placing her in three garbage bags and ... burying her in the backyard burial using a borrowed shovel?

When does decomposition set in?

Janet