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Author Topic: Posted by SandraK at FOB - possible excerpts from JVDS book?  (Read 4617 times)
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« on: March 28, 2007, 05:43:14 PM »

NOTE:  The below was posted by SandraK at Freedom of Blog.  I have no idea if these excerpts are from his book or not.

“My Mother is Hitlers Sister”

9th of June 2005

At 5:30 in the morning the day of my graduation my mom woke me up and told me the police were at my home and I was going to be arrested. Five police officers and the head Procecutor (Karen Jansen) came into my room and read me my rights. I didn’t quite know what I had to do so I stuck my hands out to be hand-cuffed, but one of the police officers told me I was aloud to brush my teeth and change my clothes first.

One of the officers then advized me to put a towel over my head because there was a lot of media outside, I agreed, was handcuffed and escorted to the police car and brought to the central police station in Oranjestad. All I remember clearly were some flashes of light and telling my mom don’t worry everything will be okay.

I kept the towel on my head all the way to the police station. I was then brought to the back of the station where they have 12 cells and was placed in cell # 1. When the officers left I remember standing there and thinking “what have I got myself into!”.

The cell is a 5 by 5-room with only the gaps between the bars as ventilation. It is completely made out of concrete and only has one hole in the floor for toilitary purposes. I looked threw the bars and could see straight into another cell which was empty. I was still tired and tried to make myslef comfortable on the floor. I don’t remember what time it was but someone nocked on the door and I woke up. A guard had brought me a foam box with rice and chicken in it along with cold cofee.

I took the food and cofee and sat on the floor wondering how to eat the food without a spoon or fork and eventualy I just ate it with my hands. A couple minutes after a man came to my cell with some papers and left. I sat down once again and read the documents. They were my rights brought to me formally on paper and the crimes I was suspected of. (Artiles……)

I tried to stay calm and did some push-ups until I heard the door open again and they told me to come with them. Just as I was leaving two other police officers were escorting Satish to his cell and I looked at him and said don’t worry just stay with your story and they will have to let us go in 10 days.

I thought I was being brought to a interogation room but instead I was transported to the police station in Noord and put in a cell there. Before being put in the cell my pockets were checked and they made me take the shoe laces out of my shoes. I asked them why, and they said its for your own safty. This time I was placed in cell 6 (there were a total of 8 cells). It is so strange how slow time goes in there its sureal. Almost all the cells at this police station were full but you could not see into anyone elses cell.

After about 5 minutes everyone started talking to me and asking me why I was in here. I told them I was arrested in the conection with the Natalee Holloway case. Everyone one was like “really” the guy in cell 3 is in for the same case. I new right away it was iether Abraham Jones or Mickey John because, from the moment Natalee Holloway’s parents showed up at my house on the 2nd of June I have been following the case on the TV and internet and knew they had been the only suspects arested so far.

They quickly asked me what my connection was in the case and I said nothing, me and my friends just dropped her off at her hotel. I lied to my mom, my dad, and all my friends.

At the time everyone was telling stories about how they got here and I just listened, the stories reached from drunken driving, to stealing computers, to posetion of firearms. I quickly figured out just by listening to other people that it the person in cell # 3 was Abraham Jones. He seemed cheerfull and was always singing.

The few times I talked to him he told me about his wife and kids and how much he mised them. He also told me he was innocent and that that night he was not even working he was at a concert with his wife. I felt horible and that night all I did was cry I didn’t know what to say to him.

That afternoon my mom and attorny visited me at the police station (At the time I was 17 and your parents have the right to visit you for 10 minutes a day, which my mom did everyday for the 14 days I was at that police station). They explained to me that my dad was not aloud to visit me and that I had “restrictions”, so basically I was not aloud any contact with the outside world.

I was quite upset that my dad wasn’t aloud to see me but there was nothing I could do about it at the time. My mom had brought some clothes in a bag for me and when I was brought back to my cell I was aloud to take a towel and a change of clothes with me. They took the rest of my stuff and put it in a locker. I remember wishing I could have talked to my mom longer and told her how much I love her.

Back in my cell a guard came by and brought us all a sandwich with cheese and once again some cold cofee. I quickly learned that at 7:00 in the morning and at 7:00 at night they turn on the water for 5 minutes. The water comes from a small hole in the wall and you are supposed to shower. When I saw the water start I jumped up placed my clothes between the bars and quickly washed my face. When they turned off the water I put my towel on the floor and used my clean clothes as a pillow and I tried to sleep. It is so increadibly hot in there I don’t know how people can possibly sleep.

30th of May 2005 (Truth)

Like on every school day, my dad woke me up at 6:15 am and I showered, changed clothes and packed my bag for school. Because my mom was in Holland for my great grandma’s 90th birthday me and my brothers had to take the bus at 6:45 am I got on the bus along with my two brothers and slept threw the hour bus ride to school.

When my mom is on the island me and my brothers ride with her and we don’t have to leave until 7:15. My mom is a Art teacher at the school me and my brothers attend, the International School of Aruba. The bus arrived at school around 7:50 and I attended my first class of the day AP English which starts at 8:00 a.m., then Calculus, then Service (where I give 2nd graders P.E.) and my last class of the day was Government and Economics. School ends at 2:45 p.m. I once again got on the bus and arrived at my house around 4:00 p.m. I walked into the living room and greeted our maid Rita.

I made myslef a sandwhich and went to my room to shower and watch some TV. Around 5:00 p.m I went to my dads work room and called him to remind him I had tennis at 6:00 p.m and he told me he would be home on time to bring me. Then I logged onto my computer updated myslef with soccer standings in Spain, my favorite soccer club is FC Barcelona and talked to some friends on Msn Messenger.

At 6:00 p.m. my dad walked in and said he was ready to bring me to tennis so I quickly changed and took my tennis stuff with me to the Aruba Raquet Club where I go daily to play tennis and go to the gym. My dad dropped me off there around 6:15 p.m. and I wasn’t really in the mood to play tennis so I told my trainer that my ankle was bothering me and that I wanted to take it easy.

I then went to the gym for a while were I saw Koen one of my best friends. I talked to him a while and then called Andre and Guido *Wever?* to ask them if they were going to play the poker tournament at the Whyndham, Guido told me he had to work at the Excelsior Casino till 10:00 pm but that when he finished he would come by and see how I was doing. Andre said he and his dad would be there. I called my dad and asked him if it would be okay to go play the tournament at the Whyndham and that Guido would bring me home, he said it was okay.

I changed my shoes for slippers *for those who don't know, slipper=flipflops* and walked from the raquet club the the Whyndham all along the beach. I got to the windham around 6:45 p.m and since the tournament doesn’t start until 7:00 p.m. I decided to play blackjack a while at the Aruba Grand casino because I know all the dealers there very well.

I came in there with 20$ and after playing 15 minutes I still had the same 20$ so I decided to hurry up and sign myslef up for the poker tournament. I did not have time to cash out my chips so I just put them in my pocket and left. I got to the Whyndham at about 7:05 and I saw Andre, so together we signed up for the tournament. The tournament started at about 7:15 and I was seated at the table farthest to the back of the poker room.

After about 10 minutes I went all in on pocket jacks and lost to an Ace, Queen suited when one of the other players flopped a flush. I bought back in but after another 10 to 15 minutes I had an Ace, King off-suit and lost to pocket Jacks, knowing luck probaly wasn’t on my side tonight I got up and went to Andre to see how he was doing. He was doing okay but there were some guys on his table that outchipped him by a lot so I knew he wouldn’t last.

I told Andre I would wait for him in the Casino. As I walked out of the Poker Room I saw Guido and he came over to meet me. He asked how I was doing and I said that I allready lost. He then asked if I wanted to go to the Radisson to play cash games and I said sure but that I just need to pick up money at my house.

So first Guido and I left the Whyndham and drove to my house in his white Nissan Sentra and I quickly went to my room to get some money. I then told Guido I still had chips from the Aruba Grand so we went there to cash-out my chips. When we got there however again there was a long line so I decided just to play my chips and Guido wanted to play roulette so we went to the roulette table.

I put a 5 dollar chip on number 9 and one on double zero. The dealer spun the wheel and what do you know 9 comes out so I immediately went to cash out the 180 dollars I won, plus the 20 dollars I had with me from earlier and me and guido went to the Radisson casino.

When we got to the Radisson it was probaly 11:00 pm and the Poker Room was quite busy. Me and guido could not even get a spot at the same table. I sat down bought in for 100 dollars. Andre called me to ask where I was, I told him I was at the Radisson and he said he was coming. I did great for about an hour probaly going up 500 dollars and then Deepak called me and asked me where I was. I told him I was at the Radisson and he said he was coming and he quickly closed the phone. It must have been 12:30 and I thought it was kind of strange but it didn’t bother me much so I continued playing.

Andre arived and right after that Deepak, they stood at the railing looking at the action. I knew one of the players at the table and was constantly talking to him and laughing at him because he was drunk. Then out of the blue because we were talking one of the tourists accused us of cheating. After loosing about 200 dollars I decided to call it a night and cashed out my chips. Deepak then asked me if I wanted to go play black jack a while in town, I said no but if you want we can play a while at the Whyndham. He said sure so we left in his grey honda civic from the Radisson parking lot to the Whyndham, Andre said that Guido would bring him home.

Just before arriving at the Whyndham my dad called me. I thought he was going to be cursing at me for being late but instead he asked me where I was and when I said the Whyndham he said there are people here at the house asking about a missing girl and claming you were with her last night. I told my dad we would come right home and this is where the lying started.

I told Deepak that my dad called about a missing girl and both of us were like “shit” that’s the girl from last night. I told Deepak we can’t say I was with her last at the beach, and Deepak said I was right. I then suggested we say we dropped her off at the hotel and Deepak agreed saying there were no cameras in the lobby so no one would ever know the difference.

Deepak quickly called his brother and told him what was happening and asked if they had been to there house yet since it was Deepak’s car and I had no idea why they would come to my house first instead of Deepak and Satish’s house. Satish said that no one had been there yet but that if the police came that he would say we dropped Natalee of at the hotel.

Then the question everybody who is reading this must have asked themselves at least a dozen times is why lie? Why lie at that time? Well I have a simple answer for you, I was scared. Scared that something bad might of happened, scared that my girlfriend at the time would find out I went out with a different girl, just plain scared. Deepak and I drove striaght to my house but no one was there. So we got out of the car and I called my dad. He said they were on there way to the Whyndham, I told him I was at home and he told me to stay there. After a couple of minutes the neigbor came outside and asked if we could turn down the volume in the car. I did and just then about 4 cars arived with what must have been at least 10 people.

One of the cars was a police car and my dad stepped out and came to me. The first thing one of gentelmen in the group did was attack me and Deepak by screaming where is Natalee what did you do with her? A woman then showed me a picture of Natalee and asked me if that was the girl I was with last night and I said yes (however at the time I did not even know her name). Another gentelmen then screamed where is she! When I said I don’t know, he said stop lying.

Another woman claiming she was an FBI agent said I was in big trouble and that they have me on video tape in the Excelsior casino lying to Natalee about me being 18, which may have been true, and I have absolutly no idea how she new what my real age was. She then told me that at the Whyndham hotel someone had reconized Natalee and had said she was just there with a tall Dutch boy.

I then turned to the group and asked who her father was and one gentelmen said it was him, I asked him to step away because he might not like what I was going to say, and he did so. I told the rest of the group that I had met Natalee in the Casino and that she had asked me to go out with her to Carlos and Charlies on Sunday May the 29th. I told them we left around closing time at 1:30 a.m. and that I had made out with and fingered Natalee in Deepak’s car, that we had drove to the lighthouse and that we had then dropped her off at the Holiday Inn lobby.

One of the other gentlemen went to Deepak and said “listen here you f***ing punk” where is she. Then my dad stepped in and said to the Aruban police who were literally in the background that they have to take some action and that these people here are totally out of there jurisdiction.

The police told Natalee’s family that they had to go to the police station and fill out a missing persons report, but someone suggested going to the Holliday Inn and even though my dad did not want to go I said I would come along and try to help.

Deepak my dad and I then got in the police car and we drove to the police station in Noord where the police officers asked the officer in charge what they should do. The Officer did not have a problem with us going to the Holliday Inn and we got in the police car and drove to the Hotel.

During the drive to the Holliday Inn we talked to the local police officers and they were kind, one of them said he even knew me. We all shared the same reaction, she probally ran away with some beach bum and she will turn up soon enough.

When we got to the hotel it was already close to 4:00 a.m. and Natalee’s whole family was already there asking people if they had seen Natalee. Charles Croes a man that was with the family then came to me and introduced himslef in papiamento (the local language on the island).

We talked for a while in papiamento and he told me I was in a lot of trouble, and he pointed to a car where Beth Twitty was sitting in the back holding a picture of her daughter. I went to the car and tried to talk with Beth but all she said was you know where my daughter is, get away!

I then turned my attention to Deepak and my dad who were talking to the rest of the group in the lobby. A large man then approached me and said he was Agent Smitt from the US Embassy. He asked me to tell him exactly what happened that night and I told him that Natalee had asked me to go to Carlos and Charlies with her and that it was her last night.

I also told him that at carlos and charlies she was yelling for me to come and dance with her but that I rejected her and went to the bar to buy a drink for me and my friends, and that at one point she came grabbed my hand and took me to the bar to take jellyshots out of her bellybuton.

I then told him that at closing time Natalee asked if she could leave with us and I said sure. After having a short relationship with her, we dropped her off at her hotel in front of the lobby.

Agent Smitt then took down some notes and one of the local police officers asked if he could talk to him. Smitt agreed and together they walked away from the group.

After standing alone a while I saw my dad, Deepak and the woman claiming to be an FBI agent talking to the hotel manager and I walked up to them. The woman was yelling at the hotel manager and screaming don’t you have any video cameras here? I saw a video camera at the hotel lobby desk and said there is one, evryone looked at the camera but the Hotel manager quickly cut us short and said that the camera was not working and that even if it was working it only has sight on the front desk.

It was probaly close to 5:00 am already and my dad said we really had to leave since I had school the next day. Before leaving the family asked us one more time to explain what happened, and Deepak jumped in by saying that when we dropped her off at the lobby there was a security guard dressed in black with a wakie-talkie that walked up to Natalee as she was aproaching the lobby.

Natalee’s family then asked me if I to had seen the security guard, and not wanting to get anyone in trouble I said no I did not see anyone but if Deepak says there was a security guard then there was one.

Charles Croes then gave me his phone number and said if I remember anything to please call him. Agent Smitt and the local police officer returned they shook hands and Deepak, my dad, and I stepped in the Police car. On the drive back to my house the officer that had spoken to Agent Smitt said that he had told him that the girl was probaly a run away and that she will probaly turn up in a day or two. He also told us that Agent Smitt had told him she was from a wealthy family.

Arriving at my house I said bye to Deepak and he left in his car and me and my dad walked to my room. I was obviously very tired but my dad insisted I go to school so I decided it was better not to go to sleep and just get ready for school since it was 5:30 a.m. allready. I got dressed and packed my bag for school.

2 July 2005

Today the first part of our cantine came. The cantine system in the K.I.A basically works like a supermarket, every 14 days every inmate recieves two lists, one for fruit and one for food and other ietems. The ietems get sold to us at supermarket prices and our bought threw a bank system where any family members or friends can leave money on your name which you can then use to phone people or to buy things off the catine lists. The lists are handed out every other Wednesday and are collected on Friday. On Monday your cantine arives and you can receive whatever you had bought. You can buy basically anything you want or can afford. All the people in the jail told me to protect my cantine when I receive it, but the first time I got my cantine I left to go outside and play soccer and when I came back my milk, juice, and chips were stolen

3 July 2005

I think the investigators here are assholes! Today they took me to the beach so that I could show where I had been with Natalee. Instead of doing it at night so that the situation might have been simular to the one of May the 30th they take me on a Sunday at 2:00 pm, to probaly the busyest beach area on Aruba just so that all the camera crews can get some good video foodage and that people can think they are doing there job.

I had to walk between all the tourists from the area where Deepak and Satish Droped me off, to the area where Satish picked me up. During the walk tourists jumped up from their beach chairs and people ran to their hotel rooms to grab their digital cameras.

In no time their were camera crews everywhere and tourists coming by every second to take a picture. Some people were talking amongst themselves and I heard some people saying “Hey theres the guy that killed Natalee!”. One woman even had the nerve to take out her camera phone stand in front of me and ask me to stop walking so she could take a picture.

It almost killed me the way people think about me because of all the medias lyies and made up stories. I mean I know all my family and friends believe in me, but if I were at home and I say all this media hype around a guy I didn’t know and heard all the lies they were telling I would probaly think that the guy did something bad I mean your suppose to trust the TV and radio news stations to give you accurate information aren’t you?

Well I know one thing for sure, I am never believing another thing I see on TV. I am just so happy that there are so many people that do believe in me. While on the beach, one family came up to me and said we believe in you, just keep faith in God and everything will be okay. I almost had to cry.

When they took me back to the police station they intergated me once again and asked me if I knew what a lie detector test was and if I had a problem taking on. I told them I have no problem at all taking one and they said okay.

4 July 2005

Today was the first day in jail that I actually got the paper and pens that I bought to write down my thoughts and feelings as well as write letters to family, friends and loved ones.

In the K.I.A whenever you want to send something or receive something via mail it goes through a sensor that reads everything and if the content in the mail is okay then they send it to you. This process usually takes weeks and is probally the reason why I only got nice mail instead of death threats and sick letters.

Today I have been in here 26 days (12 days at the cell in Noord and 14 here at the K.I.A). I went in front of the judge this morning and he gave me 60 more days which I think is rediculus, but what can I do, I have nothing to say in the matter, the judge decides.

The only good news I got is that my now my lawyer has to be present during the questioning and for me that is a big relieve because the pressure put on me sometimes is unbearble. Sometimes I get questioned for 10 hours straight and I know that with my lawyer present it will be much easier to not say a word to them anymore.

I promised my mom and dad yesterday that from now on I am not cooperating with them anymore because all they are trying to do is hang me. I have told the same story more than 15 times and I’m sick of it, they are just trying to make my declerations differ from one another so that it looks like I’m lying.

I’m angry, sad and tired all at the same time and in a way hurt because I know it must have broken my moms heart to hear that I have to be in this place for 60 more days. I think we all expected that I would go home today and from my view I thought the court case went very well. I miss my family, friends and of course my freedom increadibly! If I have one advice to you it is to cherish your freedom because you never know when it might be taken away from you.

Every place the security gaurds or police investigators take me I see camera crews from CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, and of course all the local stations. In a way it scares me and I don’t know how to react.

Today on the way back from the hearing I heard on the radio that a girl a girl was killed in Tabago, she was fourteen years old and an American tourist. I wonder if the media is going to fly over there and make a big story about that case, but since she was black they probaly will not.

I myself still feel very strongly that Natalee is alive, I mean I have seen so many declerations of people saying they swear on their life that they saw Natalee after May the 30th.

There are two statements from people working at a restaurnat that say they saw Natalee eating at a restaurant with two other men on May the 31st, as well as a statement from a security guard at the Holiday Inn that says that he saw Natalee the morning of the 31st sitting in a chair at the lobby.

I think those statements should be taken seriously but then again they might not be true, yesterday the police also told me that there are 3 staments from fisherman that say they were around the area where me and Natalee where but that they didn’t see anyone there at anytime during the morning hours.

I mean there isn’t one shread of evidence to show she isn’t alive and I think she must have found a way to leave the island. I still feel so horrible that I didn’t get to go home today, I feelt that judge Smitt believed me and Karen Jansen the prosicutor did a horrible job in the court room not bringing a shread of evidence before the Judge which she will never be able to do because I have nothing to do with Natalee’s disaperance.

She was basiclly only speculating herself, repeating “but he lied!”, and making up her own stories about what could have happened and what she thinks happend.

It’s a misarable feeling to know that if only I had stayed home that night all this might not have happened, and it would have definitly not happened to me! However it did, and I made the biggest mistake of my life, I was an asshole and I should have made sure she got back to her hotel room safely.

My head is full of mixed up emotions because I don’t know if I have to be angry, sad, laughing or crying. I just don’t know how to act anymore. I know the fact remains that I am the last person to admitt being with Natalee and I pray to god everyday that she did not go for a swim after I had left her at the beach but then they would have found her by now. That area is always full of tourists and the current is towards the beach so if she would have drowned her body would have come to shore.

It is basiclly imposible that something bad happened to her. Also they way she was talking to me when I was with her doesn’t suggest in the slightest bit that she would want to kill herself or do something bad to herself. I think that she is alive and I hope to god that they find her soon for her parents sake and my families sake.


26th September 2005

Today was another sad day. In almost every news paper in the states it stated “Joran van der Sloot admitts to Lying”. I thought everyone knew that allready, but anyway Beth Twitty was on Fox News again saying that Deepak admitted we all had sex with Natalee, and that I admitted having sex in my apartment. I don’t understand one thing, I never admitted having sex with Natalee and it was obvious Deepak’s interview which he did not know about was tampered with.
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2007, 05:59:00 PM »

There were some interresting discussions a few days ago at Refugees.  SandraK was accusing HannieC and others of seeing or working on Joran's book.  Evidentally there was a rough draft of the book floating around some months ago.  I suspect the above is the English translation of that rough draft.
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2007, 06:13:18 PM »

HannieC just posted this comment in response to SandraK posting the excerpts from the book:

So Sandra, feeling better I presume?

You make a f****** fuzz about this on Refs, and now you are the one who post this, that`s what makes me shake my head......Oh my.....
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 01:02:57 AM »

Posted by Moonshadows at FOB:

One thing though....what was posted by Sandra are NOT excerpts from Joran's book
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 01:03:53 AM »

Sounds to me like they (FOB) are trying to say that what SandraK posted is Joran's "diary" that was stolen around the time of the De Vries show.
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2007, 12:36:58 PM »

The author should be hurt severely and repeatedly.  What a poor command of English.  Grammar and syntax are seriously lacking.  And this boy thought he was going to attend college in the U.S.?  

And I don't want to hear about how English isn't his first language.  I don't care.  He evidently knows enough English to hustle girls out of bars on their last night on the island.  I guess that's what counts.
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 07:30:05 PM »

Quote from: "Peaches"
The author should be hurt severely and repeatedly.  What a poor command of English.  Grammar and syntax are seriously lacking.  And this boy thought he was going to attend college in the U.S.?  

And I don't want to hear about how English isn't his first language.  I don't care.  He evidently knows enough English to hustle girls out of bars on their last night on the island.  I guess that's what counts.

Peaches I agree.  His English is good.  When people like him get in trouble they tend to fall back on the old excuse I don't speak English too well.  He proves it to all of us in all the interviews he did.  He also has a foul mouth.
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2007, 06:02:13 PM »

Just posted by Medleyrelay at FOB in an attempt to explain how the information SandraK posted was obtained:


There were two incidents. The first one occured in the fall of 05 probably right after Joran went to Holland. That was a hacking.

The second incident was a break in of his apt - many things of a personal nature were taken - and only his things, not his roommates.

Obviously this was the earlier incident
.
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 09:14:41 PM »

Posted by Victor at FOB regarding what SandraK posted that looks like Joran's diary or book draft:

The text clearly gives away this was obtained at least prior to May 2006, also that it was in posession for over a year by people supportive of Joran or fence-sitters.

If this text (diary) was obtained over a year ago by people who believe in his guilt, I do not believe it would have been kept hidden for so long, as it seems it was never intended to leak to a big audience.

I also think the text was written by Joran himself in English, the people who had this version in posession for over a year could have done a much better job in making a correct English translation, but choose not to.
I think because when someone would have pulled it through a spell corrector and make all sort of adjustments in grammare, words used etc. it would be more perfect English but no longer Joran's words, that is why I think it was not corrected allthough the person who seemed to have passed the text on to others did add two things in between *...* (for example the presumed last name of a friend, followed by ?) Also between *...*: *for those who don't know slippers=flipflops* if it were a translation and the person translating it aware that flipflops would be a better translation (In Dutch slippers is only used for flipflops not for home-footwear) no need to add this info just type flipflops, so it were just two side-notes made in it, in order to keep the original text (imo).

I guess over a year ago Joran wanted to write his story, mainly for a US adience since this case never was a media hype in Holland, I therefor can understand that he had choosen to write in English.
I think whomever got this in posession left it in the original wording instead of editting it; if I were offered the read the May 2005 diary of FEB with her permission, I would prefer to read it in her own wording, and not the text only after it had been adjusted, editted and so on. That is why I think who ever had this in posession has left it this way, and just made two side notes (one of which gives away that it was obtained prior to May 2006).

I think it is a violation of Joran's privacy that not only people were able to obtain these notes without his permision but also as is obvious now were careless about it in such a way that now it is out there for everyone to read.
This could result in a lot of problems for Joran.
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MisGivings
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 03:32:44 AM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Sounds to me like they (FOB) are trying to say that what SandraK posted is Joran's "diary" that was stolen around the time of the De Vries show.


************************************************************
AW, HAH!!! Miss "I am an authority on everything whether it is true or not"
probably used the stealing of Joran's diaries as a test run for getting Anna Nicole's.
Hmmm, I wonder if she slept with her, too???
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You have to give Joran credit. He found a way to travel extensively without it costing him a dime.
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 12:17:53 AM »

Shocked  Rolling Eyes  Shocked  Rolling Eyes  Shocked
SandraK is a guy?
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2007, 01:33:53 PM »

Klaas-notsure where to put this so if this is not the place please move it.Just wantede you to see what Joran's saying about the Hitler's sister's daughter statement.

posted by Lovejust at FOB:
With a lot of thanks to HannieC who sent me several excerpts so I don't have to wait for my copy to arrive...



Onderweg zegt ze zomaar ineens dat haar moeder de zus van Hitler is. Ik dacht dat ze daarmee bedoelde dat ze haar moeder niet zo mocht. Als ik begin te lachen zegt zij: "Sorry, ik weet dat je Duits bent, dus daarom moest ik het je zeggen."....



Ik begin nog harder te lachen, want ik ben helemaal geen Duitser en ik had haar nog wel verteld dat ik Nederlander was. Ik vraag of ze een grapje maakt. "Nee, ik ben doodserieus".



translation:
In the car she all at the sudden says her mother is Hitler's sister. I thought that she meant that she did not like her mother not that much. When I start to laugh she says: "sorry, I know you are German, therefore I had to tell you" ........





I start to laugh even more because I am not German at all and of all things I told her that I was Dutch. I ask if she is making a joke. "No, I am dead serious".






This tit bit has always fascinated me. Not because I have the same sick fascination with Nazism as Wabbi, just wondering why she said that.





We know that friends of her have confirmed that she said that more often. Why?? Was it just to emphasize that Beth has a dictatorial character? Or is there more?





Now we have the correct phrasing and context, at least as it is remembered by Joran.





Reading how he writes it, I come back to my first reaction almost 2 years ago. If Beth is Hitler's sister that would make Natalee Hitler's sister's daughter. Hitler has a niece Geli. It is a rather fascinating story although there is not much verifiable known about it. The most accepted version is that she had from very young a (sado-masochistic) sexual relationship with her uncle. Her mother was the enabler in this matter, as a matter of fact she encouraged her daughter to get in this relationship. Geli finally committed suicide, although there are quite a few who believed Hitler had her killed. What I have read the suicide was because the relationship was getting more and more bizarre in the sadistic sense, and not, as some suggested, because Hitler was not going to marry her.





The enabler mom, the sado-masochistic relation (Hitler played also a lot of non sexual sadistic games with her), an incest type of relation, the suicide and the fact that Natalee brings this up in a night that she probably is pondering about how the rest of her life is going to be is for me another signal that the suicide has to be very seriously considered.





In the past when asked "what question would you like to ask", let's assume we would get an honest answer for a change, I always asked the question "Did Natalee read the book 'Hitler's niece' from Ron Hansen?" It is something I really would like to know, did she read it in school, did she hear about Geli in history class? IIRC she did make a trip to Europe, and she went to Austria. Did she pick up the story there and did she identify herself with Geli? All fascinating questions that I would love to see answered.



 There might be an additional factor. I have met quite a few Americans that equal Dutch with German. Some are ppl have been stationed in Germany for a while, and who hear my accent, will say things like "auf wiedersehen" or "Ach wunderbahr". Others including DMV(not such a surprise) but also some people in the Holocaust Museum in Washington (believe it or not) think Dutch equals German. Maybe Natalee was not so well informed, well traveled and all round superior, and just thought that Joran saying that he was "Dutch", meant that he came from Germany. Maybe she thought that dropping this Hitler's niece bomb would immediately inform her about her background. I believe though that Hitler's niece Geli is not a well known figure in the Netherlands.
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