Caylee Marie Anthony-MURDER TRIAL-DAY 5 - 5/28 - 5/30/2011

[SunnyinTX]

Good Morning!
Juror 4 is the SBF who doesnt like to judge people

Intresting being that's what I lip read coming from Casey's mouth that they have a problem with Juror number 4 

?


Ro, do you lip read?  I lip guess and not very well. However I have read several accounts of what KC might have been bawling about and none mention anything about juror4....all seem to go with KC was upset that Cindy didn't look her way and that KC said Cindy was standing by GA

Let me post the link to the video I did in the previous post but what I lip read was NOT from this video that everyone else is talking about it's from another break in the court and during that break when they were standing up that's when she said  to Baez " we have a problem with juror number 4".  Let me post that link for ya.http://www.wftv.com/video/28059008/index.html Starts at the 10:17 mark..and the Juror number 4 is at the 10:30 mark.  Hope that clears it up for ya..

thanks....I still can't 'read' it..I am not doubting you since you read lips....I don't...so I have to reply on others that do.

[Gypsy DD]

The Anthonys may have filed a document with the court requiring bozo to prove his damaging allegations or apologize and stop using them. If he does not they will prosecute him for lying to a court of law. I can see that happening. I can't wait to read this document.

omg turbo thanks
this makes my day.

I don't know that is what it is, but it crossed my mind that an attorney can't stand up in court and tell blatant lies regardless of his motive. I am not sure what the consequences would be as we all know there are serious laws against slander, but there also may be legal consequences if he knowing the truth pursued a lie. We know there can be legal sanctions by the bar, but the way the Anthony attorney's use of words has me really curious as to what he has planned for bozo.

I found this
As it stands now in Washington, lawyers can't knowingly offer false information in court, and they can't put their client on the witness stand if they know the client will lie.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HGTrgTakaQsJ:www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Good-sense-or-bad-counsel-Rule-would-make-1174810.php+can+a+attorney+stand+up+in+court+and+tell+lies&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera&source=www.google.com

Here's the real truth though..that's a nice law ..but ..defense lawyers lie everyday because they only have to defend with waht their clients tell them.  I defense attorney is not going to stand up in court and say my client lies, we all know this, therefore I couldn't figure out what to tell you because she lied to me.  They just proceed with what the client said, and say it is the client that told them that..they are under no obligation to check out the truth in those facts.

Also since 2 shrinks said Casey is mentally ill..which I vehemently disagree with..she has a personality disorder..sociopathy..which is not a mental illness, then he can say I had to go with what she told me and them..that's all we got from her to help defend her...it's convoluted at best.

[SunnyinTX]

The bottom line is...nothing can be done about what JB or other defense attorneys may say about another person......JB doesn't have to prove his statement...he planted the seed and hopes someone cultivated that seed.

A lawyer is typically protected as 'that which is said in court is protected.' Also, presuming that his client told him such things, then he is simply advocating a position on behalf of his client.

[Puzzler]

No idea if this is true, but.....


angeleleven 
proud mom of 3 beautiful daughters   Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 9,209 
 
It was said on Judge Jeanine on Fox just a few minutes ago that GA & CA are suing JB for slander.
__________________
 
 
 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137922&page=2

and an attorney on that show said that you can sue anyone, but that attorney statements made during a trial are "protected" and, therefore, it's very doubtful that a law suit would be doubtful it would be meritorious.

That makes no sense to me that you can come up and say anything about anybody without having proof or even submitting evidence of this in pretrial phase.  Maybe the lawyer would be doing it just for effec to show bozo they are going to bow down and take it, even if the slander law suit does not fly.  Maybe they are suing KC for slander, not Bozo?  Is that possible?

Remember, at the beginning and probably in the jury instructions at the end...the judge in all cases always reminds the jury that attorney's statements "are NOT testimony".

[Blonde]

snipped

We all have to remember that we are playing right into the defense's hand..They WANT us talking about the ACCIDENT in the pool..cause it's a plausible ideal but we SMART MONKEYS have to remember that this pool defense DOESN'T explain the Chloroform.  The Anthony's didn't use Chlorinated chemicals in their pool. 

When we had a pool we used BROMINE;
Here is a listing of the common chemicals associated with swimming pool use: CHLORINE; CYANURIC ACID; BROMINE; ALTERNATIVES TO CHLORINE ...



Was the A's pool a salt water pool?
My parent's pool in the 1950's was a chlorinated chemical pool.

[Gypsy DD]

Or new theory, I just thought of.

She puts Caylee to sleep in trunk.  Caylee dies.  i think the duct tape maybe held the chloro on her face while she slept, but this rag or whatever chloro was on underneath the duct tape, would it have disolved.  anyway, she find Caylee dead.  OMG what am I going to do.  I will make it look like she drowned.  Goes gets ladder, carried Caylee into pool (but I would think she owuld have taken the duct tape off here, unless she forgot to), goes to get phone to call mom, dad, whoever else frantically, but fails to get in touch with them, and then puts her in the playhouse. 

looks like gauze fabric is stuck to the duct tape

Blonde - duct tape does have fabric in it that is part of what makes it so strong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape

Duct tape, or duck tape, is cloth or scrim-backed pressure sensitive tape often sealed with polyethylene. It is very similar to gaffer tape but differs in that gaffer tape was designed to be cleanly removed, while duct tape is not. It is generally silver or black but also available in other colors. With a standard width of 17⁄8 inches (48 mm), duct tape was originally developed in 1942 during World War II as a water-resistant sealing tape for ammunition cases.[1] Permacel, then a division of Johnson & Johnson, used a rubber-based adhesive to help the tape resist water and a fabric backing to add strength.[citation needed] It was also used to repair military equipment quickly, including jeeps, firearms, and aircraft because of these properties.

I was thinking maybe she put the chloro on a tissue or napkin?  The tissue would dissolve over time in the swamp, no?  I would still think parts would be stuck to the duct tape, but I don't know.

I hate to say this ..but I believe she used the syringe and shot Caylee up with the chloroform to put her to sleep and added the duct tape after she was unconscious to smother her.  Even a toddler would put up a heck of a fight to being duct taped like that..arms legs flaying away and screaming..I think she gave her a shot of chloroform
first and added the duct tape to make sure the job was done.

[Blonde]

snipped

We all have to remember that we are playing right into the defense's hand..They WANT us talking about the ACCIDENT in the pool..cause it's a plausible ideal but we SMART MONKEYS have to remember that this pool defense DOESN'T explain the Chloroform.  The Anthony's didn't use Chlorinated chemicals in their pool. 

When we had a pool we used BROMINE;
Here is a listing of the common chemicals associated with swimming pool use: CHLORINE; CYANURIC ACID; BROMINE; ALTERNATIVES TO CHLORINE ...



Was the A's pool a salt water pool?
My parent's pool in the 1950's was a chlorinated chemical pool.

When we had a pool we used BROMINE;
Here is a listing of the common chemicals associated with swimming pool use: CHLORINE; CYANURIC ACID; BROMINE; ALTERNATIVES TO CHLORIN

[flamom]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/05/casey-anthony-is-jose-baez-pulling-a-columbo.html
Casey Anthony: Is Jose Baez pulling a Columbo?
Caylee and Casey Anthony, Central Florida News 13, George and Cindy Anthony, WESH, WFTV, WKMG — posted by halboedeker on May, 29 2011 10:36 AM

My vote is for sloppy, unprepared lawyering.I think Bozo flies by the seat of his pants quite like KC. He took this case at first because it probably fell in his lap. When he saw opportunity to get TV and press exposure, plus trying a capital case to become certified or whatever lawyers get, he grabbed it. This has never been about providing a great defense for his client. He is a putz. They deserve each other.
BTW, on that video, I can clearly see KC say, Jose, we have a prblem as she is staring at the jury leaving. They are both repulsive to watch

[Puzzler]

The Anthonys may have filed a document with the court requiring bozo to prove his damaging allegations or apologize and stop using them. If he does not they will prosecute him for lying to a court of law. I can see that happening. I can't wait to read this document.

omg turbo thanks
this makes my day.

I don't know that is what it is, but it crossed my mind that an attorney can't stand up in court and tell blatant lies regardless of his motive. I am not sure what the consequences would be as we all know there are serious laws against slander, but there also may be legal consequences if he knowing the truth pursued a lie. We know there can be legal sanctions by the bar, but the way the Anthony attorney's use of words has me really curious as to what he has planned for bozo.

I found this
As it stands now in Washington, lawyers can't knowingly offer false information in court, and they can't put their client on the witness stand if they know the client will lie.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HGTrgTakaQsJ:www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Good-sense-or-bad-counsel-Rule-would-make-1174810.php+can+a+attorney+stand+up+in+court+and+tell+lies&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera&source=www.google.com

Here's the real truth though..that's a nice law ..but ..defense lawyers lie everyday because they only have to defend with waht their clients tell them.  I defense attorney is not going to stand up in court and say my client lies, we all know this, therefore I couldn't figure out what to tell you because she lied to me.  They just proceed with what the client said, and say it is the client that told them that..they are under no obligation to check out the truth in those facts.

Also since 2 shrinks said Casey is mentally ill..which I vehemently disagree with..she has a personality disorder..sociopathy..which is not a mental illness, then he can say I had to go with what she told me and them..that's all we got from her to help defend her...it's convoluted at best.

Mentally ill?  I didn't hear that..I heard that she's "deeply disturbed".  She has a personality disorder for sure.  At this point, under Florida law, Baez can't change and say that KC's mentally ill.  Law doesn't allow it.  KC know right from wrong; therefore, she could never be considered mentally ill in a court of law.

[Puzzler]

Or new theory, I just thought of.

She puts Caylee to sleep in trunk.  Caylee dies.  i think the duct tape maybe held the chloro on her face while she slept, but this rag or whatever chloro was on underneath the duct tape, would it have disolved.  anyway, she find Caylee dead.  OMG what am I going to do.  I will make it look like she drowned.  Goes gets ladder, carried Caylee into pool (but I would think she owuld have taken the duct tape off here, unless she forgot to), goes to get phone to call mom, dad, whoever else frantically, but fails to get in touch with them, and then puts her in the playhouse. 

looks like gauze fabric is stuck to the duct tape

Blonde - duct tape does have fabric in it that is part of what makes it so strong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape

Duct tape, or duck tape, is cloth or scrim-backed pressure sensitive tape often sealed with polyethylene. It is very similar to gaffer tape but differs in that gaffer tape was designed to be cleanly removed, while duct tape is not. It is generally silver or black but also available in other colors. With a standard width of 17⁄8 inches (48 mm), duct tape was originally developed in 1942 during World War II as a water-resistant sealing tape for ammunition cases.[1] Permacel, then a division of Johnson & Johnson, used a rubber-based adhesive to help the tape resist water and a fabric backing to add strength.[citation needed] It was also used to repair military equipment quickly, including jeeps, firearms, and aircraft because of these properties.

I was thinking maybe she put the chloro on a tissue or napkin?  The tissue would dissolve over time in the swamp, no?  I would still think parts would be stuck to the duct tape, but I don't know.

I hate to say this ..but I believe she used the syringe and shot Caylee up with the chloroform to put her to sleep and added the duct tape after she was unconscious to smother her.  Even a toddler would put up a heck of a fight to being duct taped like that..arms legs flaying away and screaming..I think she gave her a shot of chloroform
first and added the duct tape to make sure the job was done.

Gypsy - that's exactly what I think, too!

[flamom]

I hope no one ever has to go through my computer. I have done so many searches that would raise suspicions, such as the chloroform, personality disroder, google earth searches, etc   
You can inject chloroform but it would most likely kill.

[Blonde]

Or new theory, I just thought of.

She puts Caylee to sleep in trunk.  Caylee dies.  i think the duct tape maybe held the chloro on her face while she slept, but this rag or whatever chloro was on underneath the duct tape, would it have disolved.  anyway, she find Caylee dead.  OMG what am I going to do.  I will make it look like she drowned.  Goes gets ladder, carried Caylee into pool (but I would think she owuld have taken the duct tape off here, unless she forgot to), goes to get phone to call mom, dad, whoever else frantically, but fails to get in touch with them, and then puts her in the playhouse. 

looks like gauze fabric is stuck to the duct tape

Blonde - duct tape does have fabric in it that is part of what makes it so strong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape

Duct tape, or duck tape, is cloth or scrim-backed pressure sensitive tape often sealed with polyethylene. It is very similar to gaffer tape but differs in that gaffer tape was designed to be cleanly removed, while duct tape is not. It is generally silver or black but also available in other colors. With a standard width of 17⁄8 inches (48 mm), duct tape was originally developed in 1942 during World War II as a water-resistant sealing tape for ammunition cases.[1] Permacel, then a division of Johnson & Johnson, used a rubber-based adhesive to help the tape resist water and a fabric backing to add strength.[citation needed] It was also used to repair military equipment quickly, including jeeps, firearms, and aircraft because of these properties.

I was thinking maybe she put the chloro on a tissue or napkin?  The tissue would dissolve over time in the swamp, no?  I would still think parts would be stuck to the duct tape, but I don't know.

I hate to say this ..but I believe she used the syringe and shot Caylee up with the chloroform to put her to sleep and added the duct tape after she was unconscious to smother her.  Even a toddler would put up a heck of a fight to being duct taped like that..arms legs flaying away and screaming..I think she gave her a shot of chloroform
first and added the duct tape to make sure the job was done.

Gypsy - that's exactly what I think, too!

I found this syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4673834.story

[seemeatthebeach]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/05/casey-anthony-is-jose-baez-pulling-a-columbo.html
Casey Anthony: Is Jose Baez pulling a Columbo?
Caylee and Casey Anthony, Central Florida News 13, George and Cindy Anthony, WESH, WFTV, WKMG — posted by halboedeker on May, 29 2011 10:36 AM

My vote is for sloppy, unprepared lawyering.I think Bozo flies by the seat of his pants quite like KC. He took this case at first because it probably fell in his lap. When he saw opportunity to get TV and press exposure, plus trying a capital case to become certified or whatever lawyers get, he grabbed it. This has never been about providing a great defense for his client. He is a putz. They deserve each other.
BTW, on that video, I can clearly see KC say, Jose, we have a prblem as she is staring at the jury leaving. They are both repulsive to watch

flamom.....yep, I agree.....KC clearly says "we have a problem" when the jury is leaving! Bozo was twitching like a whip on crack!

[Puzzler]

I think KC tried to set up several scenarios that she hoped LE would follow and not her:

I think she used a syringe she found in Jesse's apartment to give KC the chloroform. (Remember the syringe also had trace amounts of steroids in it). Reason why syringe was found at the scene.  Chances are good she got some of Jesse's hair when she was in his bathroom, too.  KC could have planted hair in the car/trunk - if so, that was foiled by Cindy's cleaning out the car. 

KC left the car at Amscot, including her purse, Caylee's car seat and "mama" doll.  Set up for thinking that they were abducted.

There was a third option I've been thinking about and, darn it, it's slipping my mind right now.  ha.

None of KC's tactics worked because too much points to her.  All her massive, in-depth LIES to everyone and for YEARS!  Caylee's Winnie the Pooh blanket (classic sign of a mother killing their child is to wrap them in something like their blanket), etc.  She did it and after 3 years, still no remorse.  She is simply incapable of remorse.  Hard for the rest of us to understand and accept.  It would be even harder for the parents, G&C, to understand and accept.

On the stand yesterday, Linda asked if Cindy had continued to look for the babysitter.  Cindy hesitated and it was obvious that she was emotional and said: up until 6 weeks ago.  What happened 6 weeks ago to change Cindy's mind after 3 years?  That's when the defense team informed the A's that they were coming after the family as being guilty in all of this.  Cindy has stood by KC all these years.  However, when confronted with the fact that KC gave her attorneys to destroy the family, Cindy chose to protect Lee, George and herself.  When Cindy said up until 6 weeks ago in court, that was her message to KC and KC got it loud and clear.  Cindy's comments were backed-up by not looking at KC.  KC knew that mom was going to protect the family and not her....that was the reason for KC's meltdown in court.  Shows KC extreme disorder:  she stole $48,000 from mom over time, she made it known that she is going to destroy the family in court, hasn't looked at mom in court in years with the exception of a couple of times, hasn't allowed mom to visit her in years; yet, KC thinks mom should just go against the entire family for her. 

I say that KC has met her Waterloo and it's Cindy.   Oh, add in a little Tony Lazzaro, too, because he let the world know that he knew nothing of George sexually molesting KC.

[starwynn]

::snipping2::
I found this syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4673834.story

Another reference:
"At the scene where investigators found Caylee Anthony’s remains, they recovered a Disney bag that contained a Cool Blue Gatorade bottle. Even after the six months from time Caylee was last seen alive and the time her remains were found, the bottle contained a liquid that still smelled of household chemicals and a used syringe."  (more at the following site)
http://www.wftv.com/news/21573563/detail.html

[pharlap]

snipped

We all have to remember that we are playing right into the defense's hand..They WANT us talking about the ACCIDENT in the pool..cause it's a plausible ideal but we SMART MONKEYS have to remember that this pool defense DOESN'T explain the Chloroform.  The Anthony's didn't use Chlorinated chemicals in their pool. 

When we had a pool we used BROMINE;
Here is a listing of the common chemicals associated with swimming pool use: CHLORINE; CYANURIC ACID; BROMINE; ALTERNATIVES TO CHLORINE ...



Was the A's pool a salt water pool?
My parent's pool in the 1950's was a chlorinated chemical pool.

Tks so much Blonde.......I did look it up.Problems With the Swimming Pool Chemical Bromine...
http://www.ehow.com/way_5714639_problems-swimming-pool-chemical-bromine.html

Jmo I don't think whats in the pool would be bought up in trial.
tks again....

[starwynn]

Has anyone ever said whether the syringe had a needle attached?  Or just the syringe itself?

[flamom]

Was it ever established that the syringe came from Jesse's apartment? I dont remember that at all

[starwynn]

Has anyone ever said whether the syringe had a needle attached?  Or just the syringe itself?

the reason I'm asking is that the duct tape that had covered Caylee's little face has one hole in it.  It makes me wonder if she didn't put the duct tape on to keep Caylee quiet, and then had a hole through which she used a syringe to give more chloroform to keep Caylee continuously dosed?  A syringe could effectively distribute chloroform into small spaces if there was no needle, including just soaking under the tap - no rag needed.

[Puzzler]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/05/casey-anthony-is-jose-baez-pulling-a-columbo.html
Casey Anthony: Is Jose Baez pulling a Columbo?
Caylee and Casey Anthony, Central Florida News 13, George and Cindy Anthony, WESH, WFTV, WKMG — posted by halboedeker on May, 29 2011 10:36 AM

My vote is for sloppy, unprepared lawyering.I think Bozo flies by the seat of his pants quite like KC. He took this case at first because it probably fell in his lap. When he saw opportunity to get TV and press exposure, plus trying a capital case to become certified or whatever lawyers get, he grabbed it. This has never been about providing a great defense for his client. He is a putz. They deserve each other.
BTW, on that video, I can clearly see KC say, Jose, we have a prblem as she is staring at the jury leaving. They are both repulsive to watch

flamom.....yep, I agree.....KC clearly says "we have a problem" when the jury is leaving! Bozo was twitching like a whip on crack!

Ha ha ha .... a great visual.

Mr. Baez now know that KC, the liar, has lied to him as well.  Surprise! Surprise!

Baez throw it all in for the defense - other attorney commentators told us that this was a very risky defense - all or nothing.

Only 4.5 days into the trial and it's officially "NOTHING"!    It's a BUST!    The balloon has BURST!

I heard on Court Day 1, after opening arguments, Mark NeJame on Ch. 6 said:  Mr. Baez's opening is a BUST.  It's SO bad that the defense will not be able to overcome this opening.  The defense will slowly crumble away from this point.  NeJame was questioned if he really thought that.  NeJame was "adament".  Said that this was so bad the defense won't be able to overcome it.

I was struck by NeJame's words.  I was a little skeptical that the opening was SO bad (I knew it was bad - but if it worked, it was great).  It didn't even take one full week of trial to prove NeJame CORRECT.  NeJame his the mark on the first court day.

My-oh-my - what's going to happen going forward.