Lively Case Discussion #594 3/29 - 4/1/2007

[justinsmama]

For some reason, I'm not staying logged in...

[klaasend]

Hi everyone-sorry if this has been posted already,but if not thought you might want to know what's going on in HE:
 

Trixie wrote:
But JR said that the VDSs denied he/they knew. So, which is true?

Sultan wrote:
Yes they knew as well as JR knows exactly who came across it. It came out in the open about the same time all the christmas pics of Joran ended up on that anti joran blog.
The person who came across the images told JR how he knows about them as well as some other things Joran had shared out. And asked JR to tell the VDS about the images. This person was concerned with what he found and thought the VDS should know.

Trixie wrote:
Well that makes sense, but why would JR now make the post about a "criminal act" and that he had turned it over to the authorities after he said he had talked to the VDSs?

Sultan wrote:
You will have to ask him. I don't don't know a thing about why he thinks this that way. the only reason I spoke out is they were trying to claim this was a criminal act and the person who happened apon them is not a criminal and in know way broke any law.

GEL - thanks, I hadn't seen that yet.  The plot thickens, lol  

GEL - are they saying anything about those photoshopped pics?  The one Joran paid someone to photoshop him with Natalee?

[klaasend]

[Anna]

Good Evening, Monkeys,

Is Glenda/Julia claiming somebody exposed her email address as being shared with ATA?  That is hilarious because I clearly remember she posted what she claimed was hate email she received personally and the address it was sent to was ATA.  I'd have to say she exposed that herself and not Diva.

And I also remember when both Tyler and I were scolded for not being nice to Bon Dia when she was posting lies here.  Now I hate to be one to say I told you so, but

Told ya so!  Told ya so!  Told ya so!  Told ya so!  Told ya so!


Sometimes we old folk can be pretty good judges of people's character or in this instance, lack thereof.

But the all time creepout ever from a poster for me was when she posted about how those boys would have been totally traumatized from touching dead flesh or something to that effect.

I would think Klaas will also remember that one because it just sounds so personally involved.  Do you recall that Klaas?  Sort of hard to forget but she actually posted something like that, I am paraphrasing, at RU.     Like that is the real tragedy in all this?????  

I can understand Monkeys supporting the family of a missing child like Natalee but I will never understand this hatred for the families of missing children.  Many have been exposed to it in other cases but this is my first to be this involved with and I find it truly shocking.  

I can't imagine support like this for the last person seen with somebody missing in this country but then they do seem to develop a fan club and women wanting the marry them even in prison after being convicted of murder so guess it is sort of like that?

And having turned in a hard drive that was hacked to the FBI, I did find that prosecuting those responsible if they are in another country is not as easy as one might think.  In fact, doing anything is very difficult so if somebody hacked Joran's computer from this country, I seriously doubt that there is one thing that could or would be done about it.  Unless it involves serious theft of something tangible like money or support for terrorists, etc. I doubt that the authorities care very much.  At least that is what I found.    

They have so many internet café's, etc. from which to do things, impossible to pin something down.  So I wonder just what legal ramifications that JR thinks are involved in this?  If they can remove all the drives from computers more or less at will, taking a diary file should be of very minor concern.  He is supposed to be a lawyer and should know that international treaties are not going to be applied to some kid's diary, etc.

I don't see how what was posted, if written by Joran, either helps or hurts him in any way.  Everyone already knew he was a liar and changed his story every time he told it.  Why would this be any different?

Am I missing something in all this?  I have not been to RU to read and really don't have time but I am guessing this is considered some sort of breach of Joran's trust?  Remember when Julia told that the vdSloots were going to be in NYC?  That is how JQK was able to serve them.

Also some of those photos posted at Joransblog or whatever that photo site was I think she took from somewhere so it is established that she stabs everybody in the back just as she did Beth.  

And her camera would not work to find the painted rocks but the same day she posted all those photos and tried to use Leon van Loon as yet another red herring??  Photos of him in that bright yellow car but no camera for the rocks?    She and scubajap tried so hard to tie him to this.  That is what I think they also did with Lorenzo.

Just my random and scattered thoughts on this comedy of errors they are playing out on those strange and hostile sites.

[klaasend]

Good Evening, Monkeys,

Is Glenda/Julia claiming somebody exposed her email address as being shared with ATA?  That is hilarious because I clearly remember she posted what she claimed was hate email she received personally and the address it was sent to was ATA.  I'd have to say she exposed that herself and not Diva.

And I also remember when both Tyler and I were scolded for not being nice to Bon Dia when she was posting lies here.  Now I hate to be one to say I told you so, but

Told ya so!  Told ya so!  Told ya so!  Told ya so!  Told ya so!


Sometimes we old folk can be pretty good judges of people's character or in this instance, lack thereof.

But the all time creepout ever from a poster for me was when she posted about how those boys would have been totally traumatized from touching dead flesh or something to that effect.

I would think Klaas will also remember that one because it just sounds so personally involved.  Do you recall that Klaas?  Sort of hard to forget but she actually posted something like that, I am paraphrasing, at RU.     Like that is the real tragedy in all this?????  

I can understand Monkeys supporting the family of a missing child like Natalee but I will never understand this hatred for the families of missing children.  Many have been exposed to it in other cases but this is my first to be this involved with and I find it truly shocking.  

I can't imagine support like this for the last person seen with somebody missing in this country but then they do seem to develop a fan club and women wanting the marry them even in prison after being convicted of murder so guess it is sort of like that?

And having turned in a hard drive that was hacked to the FBI, I did find that prosecuting those responsible if they are in another country is not as easy as one might think.  In fact, doing anything is very difficult so if somebody hacked Joran's computer from this country, I seriously doubt that there is one thing that could or would be done about it.  Unless it involves serious theft of something tangible like money or support for terrorists, etc. I doubt that the authorities care very much.  At least that is what I found.    

They have so many internet café's, etc. from which to do things, impossible to pin something down.  So I wonder just what legal ramifications that JR thinks are involved in this?  If they can remove all the drives from computers more or less at will, taking a diary file should be of very minor concern.  He is supposed to be a lawyer and should know that international treaties are not going to be applied to some kid's diary, etc.

I don't see how what was posted, if written by Joran, either helps or hurts him in any way.  Everyone already knew he was a liar and changed his story every time he told it.  Why would this be any different?

Am I missing something in all this?  I have not been to RU to read and really don't have time but I am guessing this is considered some sort of breach of Joran's trust?  Remember when Julia told that the vdSloots were going to be in NYC?  That is how JQK was able to serve them.

Also some of those photos posted at Joransblog or whatever that photo site was I think she took from somewhere so it is established that she stabs everybody in the back just as she did Beth.  

And her camera would not work to find the painted rocks but the same day she posted all those photos and tried to use Leon van Loon as yet another red herring??  Photos of him in that bright yellow car but no camera for the rocks?    She and scubajap tried so hard to tie him to this.  That is what I think they also did with Lorenzo.

Just my random and scattered thoughts on this comedy of errors they are playing out on those strange and hostile sites.

Anna - yes I do remember that and I might even have saved that post.  I'll have to search through my archives.  It was posted at RU if I'm not mistaken.

[nonesuche]

Anna     the told ya has me cracking up, little none too    

if I had a dime for every PM and email I received from SMS over folks on SM not loving the bondia I'd never need to bake a cookie again  

[Tamikosmom]

UPDATE

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/04/01/quake.reut/index.html

People missing after tsunami
POSTED: 8:46 p.m. EDT, April 1, 2007

[greeneyedlady]

Okay Klaas more just for you...  

ElaineS wrote:
Uh oh... all? Holy cow, this is getting more interesting by the second. But listen Sultan, since according to the FOBers those of us in HE are all stupid, you'll be ranked by them as more stupid and a liar. Are you going to care as much as we do??? lol Notice that we keep on discussing!!

Sultan wrote:
Want bother me the least. I was not try to fight with them. I was only trying to tell the truth on how the diary and other docs came to light. Nothing crimnal like they think.

For the record, when the person came across the diairy he/she did not want it made public, but was concerned he/she would be obstructing justice if he/she did not turn them over to the police.

He asked several of us to read the docs and see if he.she should contact the police. Some with legal knowlage advised him/her there was not anything Joran had not already said in public.

So he asked us not let anyone know about it because he did not want to cause the VDS any trouble. He could have carried it further but, dropped it until it came up lately.

Instead of going on non-exsistant criminal hunt they should let it go before they force more of the documents into the public realm that could be embarrasing to Joran and his family.

I thing the VDSs have had a enough and FOB are not doing them any favors by carring on about this.

[Elaine]

Julia cracks me up! That she would even think that at this point in time her identity is some big secret?! She signed that petition that scrux got together (back with Roger)that time to post of the front page of the NY paper, An open letter to Oprah. That was one of the only times I saw her sign something with her real name. Why does she try so hard to hide her true identity? As much as she blasts Natalee, and Beth and even Dave...she should run her big mouth using her real name..(although we all know its her)

[IndyDan]

Hard to believe that just a few weeks ago I posted a pic taken out my backdoor of a freshly fallen 8 inches of snow and today I have a sunbrunt face from cutting grass.  

[klaasend]

Okay Klaas more just for you...  

ElaineS wrote:
Uh oh... all? Holy cow, this is getting more interesting by the second. But listen Sultan, since according to the FOBers those of us in HE are all stupid, you'll be ranked by them as more stupid and a liar. Are you going to care as much as we do??? lol Notice that we keep on discussing!!

Sultan wrote:
Want bother me the least. I was not try to fight with them. I was only trying to tell the truth on how the diary and other docs came to light. Nothing crimnal like they think.

For the record, when the person came across the diairy he/she did not want it made public, but was concerned he/she would be obstructing justice if he/she did not turn them over to the police.

He asked several of us to read the docs and see if he.she should contact the police. Some with legal knowlage advised him/her there was not anything Joran had not already said in public.

So he asked us not let anyone know about it because he did not want to cause the VDS any trouble. He could have carried it further but, dropped it until it came up lately.

Instead of going on non-exsistant criminal hunt they should let it go before they force more of the documents into the public realm that could be embarrasing to Joran and his family.

I thing the VDSs have had a enough and FOB are not doing them any favors by carring on about this.

GEL - what is your take?  Why did JR leave them up at FOB so long?  Also, is there any mention that the photoshopped pictures of Joran and Natalee could have been obtained at the same time?

[IndyDan]

Julia cracks me up! That she would even think that at this point in time her identity is some big secret?! She signed that petition that scrux got together (back with Roger)that time to post of the front page of the NY paper, An open letter to Oprah. That was one of the only times I saw her sign something with her real name. Why does she try so hard to hide her true identity? As much as she blasts Natalee, and Beth and even Dave...she should run her big mouth using her real name..(although we all know its her)

She just can't stand the thought that her 15 minutes over.

[Elaine]

Julia cracks me up! That she would even think that at this point in time her identity is some big secret?! She signed that petition that scrux got together (back with Roger)that time to post of the front page of the NY paper, An open letter to Oprah. That was one of the only times I saw her sign something with her real name. Why does she try so hard to hide her true identity? As much as she blasts Natalee, and Beth and even Dave...she should run her big mouth using her real name..(although we all know its her)

She just can't stand the thought that her 15 minutes over.

I am so glad I don't have to see her on TV anymore!

[IndyDan]

Julia cracks me up! That she would even think that at this point in time her identity is some big secret?! She signed that petition that scrux got together (back with Roger)that time to post of the front page of the NY paper, An open letter to Oprah. That was one of the only times I saw her sign something with her real name. Why does she try so hard to hide her true identity? As much as she blasts Natalee, and Beth and even Dave...she should run her big mouth using her real name..(although we all know its her)

She just can't stand the thought that her 15 minutes over.

I am so glad I don't have to see her on TV anymore!

I never understood why she was afforded so much prime airtime as a spokesperson for the ALE side of the case.  She was/is just a tourism shill looking for damage control.

[AZSunny]

Anna     the told ya has me cracking up, little none too    

if I had a dime for every PM and email I received from SMS over folks on SM not loving the bondia I'd never need to bake a cookie again  

I was jumped on so hard that I didn't post for 2 months!!

[Elaine]

Anna     the told ya has me cracking up, little none too    

if I had a dime for every PM and email I received from SMS over folks on SM not loving the bondia I'd never need to bake a cookie again  

And to think that I actually gave her the benefit of the doubt in the beginning, and thought she was ok, and truley concerned about Natalee. I could not have been more wrong, and I admit it! Hitting myself in the head here!

[casa]

Okay Klaas more just for you...  

ElaineS wrote:
Uh oh... all? Holy cow, this is getting more interesting by the second. But listen Sultan, since according to the FOBers those of us in HE are all stupid, you'll be ranked by them as more stupid and a liar. Are you going to care as much as we do??? lol Notice that we keep on discussing!!

Sultan wrote:
Want bother me the least. I was not try to fight with them. I was only trying to tell the truth on how the diary and other docs came to light. Nothing crimnal like they think.

For the record, when the person came across the diairy he/she did not want it made public, but was concerned he/she would be obstructing justice if he/she did not turn them over to the police.

He asked several of us to read the docs and see if he.she should contact the police. Some with legal knowlage advised him/her there was not anything Joran had not already said in public.

So he asked us not let anyone know about it because he did not want to cause the VDS any trouble. He could have carried it further but, dropped it until it came up lately.

Instead of going on non-exsistant criminal hunt they should let it go before they force more of the documents into the public realm that could be embarrasing to Joran and his family.

I thing the VDSs have had a enough and FOB are not doing them any favors by carring on about this.

GEL - what is your take?  Why did JR leave them up at FOB so long?  Also, is there any mention that the photoshopped pictures of Joran and Natalee could have been obtained at the same time?

Gel may have seen something Klaas but from what I'm reading I haven't seen anything mentioned about the pictures in reference to the diary

[IndyDan]

No chicken livers anywhere near here this weekend, gotta scoot, might get lucky.  See yall tomorrow.  

[greeneyedlady]

Klaas,I don't know what to think except what I said the other day.IMO-it was staged=JR let SK post them on his site knowing Joran and VDS's knew it already but they let it happen and left it up long enough for all to see and copy.I think Joran and the VDS's wanted to put Guido's name out there again right before the book comes out just in case anyone had forgot about GW..I think it may have made them angry that GW didn't want his name in the book.Not sure just my thoughts.

Also from what I'm reading there looks like there's more docs this person has that may be harmful to Joran..as if I really care-NOT-hope this person puts it out there for all to see.

[klaasend]

Looking for that post Anna mentioned of Glenda's and I found this one.  Thought I'd share.  It will blow the margins, sorry