Caylee Marie Anthony-MURDER TRIAL - DAY 10 - 6/4/11

[loca]

Morning Monkeys!

I was watching NG last night do a summary of the trial and she was showing the jailhouse visits. In the one where George alone was visiting KC, he says, "If I could trade places with you, I would, I really would. I would do that." KC is in court watching the video and clearly spits out "Then why doesn't he?"

Someone on the forum noticed it when it happened, but I wasn't watching the feed at the time and missed it. I've seen it now and it caused me to confirm in my mind what I had suspected. Casey fashioned this stupid defense expecting her family to go along with it. She thought they'd grab the chance to get her out of the murder charge and lying about what happened should be no problem for them. After all, we all know she puts no value in telling the truth.

KC's one piece of work. It's a real insight into her thought processes. She's a cold, calculating biotch who feels entitled to what she wants and needs.

I used to think it was possible Caylee accidently died with KC. I don't anymore. KC murdered that child and she's very dangerous to anyone who crosses her.

I hope she gets more than 20 years. I wouldnt want her married and have children. I agree casey would be a black widow! and is very capable of killing again. If she was so jealous of the relationship ... jesse grund had with cindy! what would make any difference... second go round?

[loca]

I meant the relationship caylee and jesse had.

[Titch]

Bringing up Caylee's memorial service made me think of something. I was just talking about technology changing everyday, getting better & better, more precise. Casey was 100% against her parents cremating Caylee. Well maybe they cremated her bc they know technology is only moving up in the world, so something that may not be found right now could be found 20 years from now, however only 1 thing could prevent any further testing of the complete remains found...and that would be cremation. I think they knew their daughter murdered their granddaughter but were afraid of losing their daughter to the dp, so they had Caylee cremated against her mother's will.

Most likely was their motivation but I do not believe Casey was against it as much as her attorney felt it was a good idea for her to express she was because it would be in her favor to object.  IMHO, it seems obvious that Casey & Bozo planned to throw her parents under the bus by all means necessary & beyond.  When she was bailed out and we witnessed her going to her attorney's office to spend the entire day daily, I found that extremely unethical & a direct attempt to cut her parents off from any discussions regarding her defense.  He used them to facilitate the conditions of her bond, elicited information from them & only informed them of things to ascertain same and/or use against them later on.  Bozo displayed this overkill "dont talk to anyone" even earlier when he demanded no one speak to her outside his presence, including when the Padilla crew came to town.   He's a snake and his client is venomous.

Capp, who do you think guided Casey in her Diary of Days...or do you think she came up with that on her own? It's almost  as if a lawyer helped her. Are we certain that Casey honestly got Hoser's name from an inmate or 2? If she lies about everything else, then why tell the truth about how she got her lawyer? I was on WS when Smolea, Sleuther on the Side & I were taking apart the one bj picture. Smolea's arrow points totally lined up with moles, pock marks, indents, etc. Some people don't believe it was Casey, I definitely believe it's her. So, could she have known Hoser from a previous time & just played the media & her family about how she got his name? She never gave names of the people that suggested him, right? So why would she trust an inmate or somebody going to court about Hoser instead of trusting her family or friends to make a better suggestion as far as an attorney is concerned? Doesn't make sense. 

[pharlap]

Hi Tamikosmom

Why totmom would drug Caylee, so she could just use the home pc?

The amount of cell calls, wanted to insure no one was coming home early.  Just to know the where abouts of everyone.

 

[Kat_Gram]

In regards to using chloroform to clean the trunk, I am not so sure. LE did take way pesiticides and other pest control items from the Anthony home, but I don't know what products or if they contained chloroform. Cindy said she used Frebreze and that has no chloroform, I just looked, plus any type of household cleaning products wouldn't a dangerous chemical like that in it.
..
There were maggots and flies in the trunk and I could see George using something he had on hand to try to kill pests. Or KC on Caylee. 

[Gypsy DD]

Hey titch, i agree with you, if she had had enough time she was going to off her parents and with Caylee gone she was home free! i seriously believe that! She's a psychopath and all she wanted was for her life to be perfect in her sick mind. She would have killed them both & not thought twice about it! The consequences are never even in her mind unless confronted with them, she has no conscience and it's hard for normal people to comprehend that thought process but believe me there are lots of these sick ass freaks out there! My brothers ex is one of them, she's Casey's twin & I know she would off someone in a NY minute if they got in her way, no doubt!!!   

ITA..She was planning on killing her parents first..I think..and then her anger got the better of her and she killed Caylee out of rage and spite.

I thin the judge also thinks there was a possiblity she would ahve gone on to kill her parents..hence his remark the other day when they were reading taxtsbetween Casey and Tony..in court..but withut jury present.  JP said something like ..so the conclusion of these is you want me to believe she was also  planning on killing her parents?  He didn't just pull that out of thin air.

[Tamikosmom]

I don't know, but according to the below, there was no chloroform found in the hair or bones, or any other drug.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf

Page 36.

Thanks Zoo Monkey

Something is hinky.

Janet

+++++

Jurors may hear chloroform evidence
6:26 p.m. EDT, April 27, 2011

In another setback to Casey Anthony's defense team, a judge ruled Wednesday that evidence about elevated chloroform levels detected in her car may be admissible at her trial.

Orange-Osceola Chief Judge Belvin Perry denied a defense team's request to block evidence about chloroform, which is a potentially deadly chemical that can be used to render a person unconscious.

<snipped>

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/os-casey-anthony-trial-chloroform-rul20110427,0,7305325.story

Is chloroform an agent used in cleaning products?  Could it be that the "elevated levels" of chloroform detected in the trunk be a result of Cindy's cleaning spree prior to LE seizing Casey's vehicle?

Janet

Labs have test samples that they compare evidence to. Dr. Vass will testify to the chloroform in the trunk of the car being 10,000 times higher than the labs test sample and that he's never before seen chloroform evidence at such a high level.
That is what he testified to in the Frye hearing at the preliminary trial.

Because of the length of time and the expose to the elements there would be no way to trace the drugs. I had hoped the hair would test out, but after talking with a microbiologist I was told that hair would not preserve those in that length of time.  That was KC's whole intention to at least keep the body hidden until everything could no longer be tested. I think she thought they would never find her, but her whole reasoning from the beginning was not to let anyone know because of the drugs in her system. I do think they may have found the chloroform bottle because there is a dark brown bottle in the evidence and chloroform is kept in dark glass.

<snipped by Tamikosmom> 

Thanks TURBOTHINK

That makes sense when the strands of hair attached to the duct tape is considered but ... no my understanding is that no chloroform was detetect in the strand of hair discovered in the trunk ... on in the trunk itself.

My theory implies that Caylee's unintentional demise was the result of a chloroform overdose ... maybe I will have to reconsider.

Janet

[loca]

I am going to listen to Simon  Barett blog talk radio today. Last week he has cobra the bounty hunter on there! it was so annoying.

[loca]

I am going to listen to Simon  Barett blog talk radio today. Last week he has cobra the bounty hunter on there! it was so annoying.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/simon-barrett

[Green Eyes]

Casey Anthony Murder Trial Day 10: FBI Expert Karen Lowe Testifies that Hair in Casey's Trunk Came  may be Caylee's with Decomposition

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2011/06/05/casey-anthony-murder-trial-day-10-fbi-expert-karen-lowe-testifies-that-hair-in-caseys-trunk-came-may-be-caylees-with-decompoation/

It was another bad day for defense attorney Jose Baez and his client tot mom Casey Anthony. The State was allowed to produce evidence against the tot mom and “death banding” of hair. Try as the defense would to disqualify this witness and not allow the testimony into evidence, Baez failed. FBI expert Karen Lowe was allowed to testify that one of the hairs found in the trunk of the car belonging to Casey Anthony came from a dead body. Just curious, why is Baez trying to disprove that an expired Caylee Anthony was in the trunk? Isn't it the Defense's position that Caylee drowned and George Anthony not only was aware but had keys to the vehicle? How did Caylee get from the back yard to where her remains were eventually found 1/2 mile away from the Anthony residence.

The defense took another hit yesterday on day 10 of the Casey Anthony murder trial. FBI expert Karen Lowe and Mike Vincent - OC Sheriff Assist Super Crime Scene Unit did a great job on the witness stand, especially in cross.

I can honestly say that the DEFENSE is in complete disarray and at this point I have no idea what their strategy is, it is obvious neither do they.

The defense from the outset has tried to implicate GEORGE in the so-called drowning and cover up of Caylee as part of some master scheme of sexual abuse of Casey. They have tried to tie GEORGE to the gas cans, the car and the property. During cross of LEE ANTHONY Baez asked whether GEORGE had a second set of keys to Casey's car. The answer was yes.

So doesn't it make one ask why BAEZ would fight so hard that a decomposed hair of Caylee was in the trunk? The Defense has already stated that Caylee was dead. Wouldn't one have to transport her body? If they are implicating George and he had access to the car and the child was dead, why is the defense stating that Caylee was not in the trunk?

The fact of the matter is ... when a client is so guilty of a crime, the defense has no where to go but try and disprove everything and in the process, they have disproved their own assertions.

The DEFENSE and CAEY is toast.

I totally agree Red about Casey being toast.  Have wondered the same thing about Baez trying so hard to keep out the hair with the death band. To us normal people that think logically about what he is trying to use as a defense it doesn't make any sense.  The problem being he knows he doesn't have a chance in he77 to accomplish it. So he is trying to keep out all evidence that shows Casey really killed Caylee. Because he knows she killed her and there was no accident.

[Blonde]

I don't know, but according to the below, there was no chloroform found in the hair or bones, or any other drug.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf

Page 36.

Thanks Zoo Monkey

Something is hinky.

Janet

+++++

Jurors may hear chloroform evidence
6:26 p.m. EDT, April 27, 2011

In another setback to Casey Anthony's defense team, a judge ruled Wednesday that evidence about elevated chloroform levels detected in her car may be admissible at her trial.

Orange-Osceola Chief Judge Belvin Perry denied a defense team's request to block evidence about chloroform, which is a potentially deadly chemical that can be used to render a person unconscious.

<snipped>

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/os-casey-anthony-trial-chloroform-rul20110427,0,7305325.story

Is chloroform an agent used in cleaning products?  Could it be that the "elevated levels" of chloroform detected in the trunk be a result of Cindy's cleaning spree prior to LE seizing Casey's vehicle?

Janet

NO
Janet
Casey looked up how to make chloroform on her computer i had all of this saved

Along with instructions on how to make chloroform at home, also listed are some important considerations to bear in mind while handling this compound and laboratory chemicals. Here's how to make chloroform at
home.

((edit to remove recipe for making it - I'd hate to think someone wanting to kill someone googled and found it at SM))

[Kat_Gram]

The person whose testimony I am really interested in is Dom Casey.
Everyone's else's , thanks to  the Sunshine Laws, we have mostly see their statements, but I don't remember his. 

[TURBOTHINK]

Hi Tamikosmom

Why totmom would drug Caylee, so she could just use the home pc?

The amount of cell calls, wanted to insure no one was coming home early.  Just to know the where abouts of everyone.

 

I feel she killed her the night of the 15th or morning of the 16th. There was a video or a witness one who saw her walking around her car on her phone in a hotel parking lot about 2:00 in the morning of the 16th. I have always felt George made up the story about seeing them leave that morning to cover for her.

I also think all the phone calls were to make sure they weren't coming home. She was paranoid until she could plant the body somewhere. I have always wondered if she did put her in that turtle (or something) sandbox because she would have fit there and there was a lid on it. There would have been no reason for the Anthonys to raise that lid.

[ZooMomology]

I have compiled backup to my following theory which encompasses "The Demise and Disposal of Caylee Marie" ... backup which was gleaned by official court testimony, police reports, interview transcript/videos and Casey's cell phone/communication  records - backup that I am willing to share upon request.

At any given moment ... my theory can change.

Janet

+++++
 


A THEORY IN A NUTSHELL - THE DEMISE AND DISPOSAL OF CAYLEE MARIE
 
July 16, 2008

1.  George observes Casey and Caylee leaving the home.  The understanding is that Casey will be at her place of employment while Caylee is cared for by a nanny.
 
2.  Considering there is no place of employment and no nanny ... Casey returns to the Anthony home with Caylee following George departure's to work..
 
3.  While Casey is on her computer ... Caylee dies of a drug overdose (chloroforum).
 
4.  Upon discovery ... Casey's initial panicked response is to contact her mother and/or father.  Unsuccessful attempts were made a “flurry” of cell phone.
 
5.  When she considers that Caylee's unintentional death was the result of wrongdoing ... Casey's thought process changes and goes into cover up mode.
 
6.  Casey changes Caylee's clothes which are soiled by vomit.
 
7.  Casey wraps duct tape around a deceased Caylee’s head and mouth to prevent a further escape of bodily fluids and … attaches a heart sticker.
 
8.  Casey wraps a deceased Caylee in her Winnie the Pooh blanket and places her daughter's body along with a plastic toy horse in two garbage bags and a laundry bag.
 
9.  Casey temporarily places her daughter's bagged body inside or under the backyard playhouse.
 
10.  Upon leaving the area of the Anthony's residence ... Casey contacts Tony and makes arrangements to meet up.
 
11.  Casey spends evening without Caylee at Tony's residence watching videos.
 
 
June 27, 2008

1.  Casey spends the day in bed with Tony.
 
 
June 18, 2008

1.  Casey returns home while parents are at work and borrows a shovel from from neighbour.

2.  Casey retrieves a deceased Cayley from temporary hiding place inside or under playhouse and buries her daughter under a concrete paver beneath the playhouse.
 

June 24, 2008

1.  Casey returns home at a time she expects both parents to be at work ... at a time her mother believes she and Caylee are in Jacksonville.  However … an afternoon appointment implies her father is home.
 
2.  When questioned by George ... Casey returns gas can and leaves but returns home later

3.  Casey retrieves a deceased Caylee from under the concrete paver beneath the playhouse and … places her daughter’s bagged remains inside the trunk of her vehicle.
 
4.  Casey disposes of her daughter’s remains in a familiar location where an eventual discovery is made by a meter reader.
 
5.  Upon realizing the bags containing Caylee remains had been compromised and body decomposition had leaked into the trunk of her vehicle resulting in a foul odor ... Casey unsuccessfully attempts to rid the odor with baking powder.
 
 
June 25-27, 2008

1.  For 2 1/2 days ... Casey complains of the foul odor to Amy.
 
 
June 27, 2008

1.  Casey abandons her vehicle.

Tamiko, where does the baking powder come in?  Was there evidence of that somewhere that I missed?

[Blonde]

Hey monkeys... curious what you think about Casey getting so upset during the jailhouse video, when she claims nobody is letting her speak.  1.) if she really killed Caylee and is lying about it, what is there for her to get upset about? 2.) if Caylee really did accidentally drowned, and she refused to just admit it, what is there for her to get upset about? I mean, her lying is outrageous enough, but to then get worked up to that extreme because people are supposedly not listening to her or misconstruing everything she's saying....  it really makes no sense. It does seem that she's upset for real, not just fake tears... but why?

Do you mean this lol

[pharlap]

snip

TURBOTHINK

Because of the length of time and the expose to the elements there would be no way to trace the drugs. I had hoped the hair would test out, but after talking with a microbiologist I was told that hair would not preserve those in that length of time.  That was KC's whole intention to at least keep the body hidden until everything could no longer be tested. I think she thought they would never find her, but her whole reasoning from the beginning was not to let anyone know because of the drugs in her system. I do think they may have found the chloroform bottle because there is a dark brown bottle in the evidence and chloroform is kept in dark glass. 



Thanks...This hasn't come up in the trial as of yet, right?
 

[TexasBarMom]

Murder NEVER is 100% established in any case regardless if the evidence is circumstantial or eye witness. That is not the legal requirement for a guilty verdict even when it includes the death penalty. The "accident" story does not pass muster on a number of items and the wild story bozo told is going to jump up and bite him in the butt.

1. She waited 31 days and then never reported it. Her mother did when KC was caught.
2. She had no prior history of mental illness which would keep her from knowing right and wrong. (which is the legal definition of insanity)
3. The bones did not indicate drowning. (you will hear that later in court)
4. George was not there and he put himself in the position to be accused when he lied saying he saw them the morning of the 16th. He may have seen KC carrying out Caylee in that laundry bag, but in my mind she died the night of the 15th after KC & Cindy had that fight.5. On the jailhouse tapes KC talks about how George is the best father anyone could have.
6. Now that they have locked themselves into this new story, the proof will be much easier than the state expected.
7. Tony will be brought back to testify that she never told him George molested her.
8. Jesse Grund will tell she never told him she was molested.
9. The death bands on the tape is irrelevant. Hair samples are not identifiable for that after a short period of time.

(a number of other reasons but this is enough for now)

The natural appearance of hair include use of hair dyes, rinses, permanents, frosts, and other chemical applications. Environmental alterations can result from exposure to excessive sunlight, wind, dryness, and other conditions. Because hair can be affected by a number of environmental and chemical conditions, it is recommended that head hair samples be obtained as soon as possible from suspects and victims of crime. Head hair samples obtained years after a crime are generally not suitable for meaningful comparison purposes because they lose all identifiable  properties.
 

BBM
Hi Turbo!

The line I bolded is exactly the premise I have had all along.

Caylee was murdered the night of the 15th into the early hours of the 16th.

I never believed George's story about seeing them on the morning/ early afternoon of the 16th.

Why..because that was in an interview with LE in which he lied about a lot of things.  His description of the clothing Caylee was wearing , down to the sunglasses and backpack was completely wrong....that backpack he described..white with Dora and Boots on it.. was never found at the house or the retrieval site..because it didn't exist.  He said she was in a denim skirt..she was found in a diaper and on leg bone still inside the plaid shorts...the pink shirt is interesting..but Caylee had many pink shirts..and when Cindy saw that shirt she said she had never seen it before on Caylee.  Although there are pics of Caylee in it, they are taken at Ricardo's.  I think that was part of the clothes that Casey kept stashed in her car for Caylee when she was staying with her firends..certainly it does not look to be the type of clothing Cindy would have bought for Caylee.

After that interview with George, also Cindy and Lee..LE felt they were lying somewhat and trying to cover for Casey.

I think she had the fight with her Mom..decided she was going to get out of their life forever and then Caylee started screaming for Cindy because of Casey's fury..and the rest is history.

I also think that Caylee was able to tell Cindy things now..and Cindy was beginning to doubt a lot of Casey's stories.  It would be a challenge to try to decide if the accounts of a 3 year old vs her lying mother..which were accurate..but I think Cindy staked her claim to Caylee that night and was on the verge of kicking Casey out.

Infact I think that probably a week before there may have been a blow up about getting Caylee away form Casey and kicking Casey out of the house.  Meaning Cindy may have stated that was her intention if Casey didn't change.  There is a reason why the date of 6/7,8 and 9 originally came into play.  I know they said they had the wrong weekend for the Father's Day visit..and that I believe..but I also believe that there were discussions with Casey in the week prior and the stealing again from Grandma was the icing on the cake.

I've often wondered whether George was lying about seeing them on the 16th. Early in the investigation, I remember some info that Casey left the house on the night of the 15th in a rage, and also remember that her phone records showed that she was gone most of the night and made many calls/texts.  Haven't heard any more about this (and my memory could be wrong).... anymonkeys remember this stuff?

[loca]

Does anyone remember ? either by text or phone call? casey telling tony that taking care of caylee is like working a 8 hr shift. something to that effect?

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Tamikosmom

Why totmom would drug Caylee, so she could just use the home pc?

The amount of cell calls, wanted to insure no one was coming home early.  Just to know the where abouts of everyone.

 

You could be right.

Nevertheless ... communication records indicate that Casey was on her computer up to one hour prior to the flurry of unsuccessful cell phone attempts to contact her parents.

Where was Caylee?

Janet

[Blonde]

THE STICKER

Horrifying New Details Emerge in Caylee Anthony Case
By Oliver Jones
Wednesday January 21, 2009 03:05 PM EST

With details that are both graphic and heartbreaking, new court documents released Wednesday reveal that the body of toddler Caylee Anthony was bound by duct tape that had a heart-shaped sticker placed on it

<snipped>
 
The remains were recovered by the Orange County Sheriff's department near Caylee's Orlando-area home on Dec. 11. FBI investigators also found residue that "appeared to be consistent with the adhesive side of a heart-shaped sticker," sheriff's Detective Yuri Melich is quoted as saying in the documents.
 
Documents also state that investigators seized sticker books and scrapbook material from Caylee's home, along with other toys that matched the one found with her body.
 
"It appears that the sticker was put on the duct tape intentionally," Melich is quoted as saying.
 
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20253947,00.html

I know this, but they cannot show this article to the jury to prove there was a sticker there.  it has to be documented somewhere, and according to the post above, there was no sticker.  I am looking for the document in the document dump where it says a few people saw it and tried to get photos of it.

They have it in evidence?