Caylee Marie Anthony- MURDER TRIAL- DAY 16 - 6/11 - 6/12/2011

[TexasBarMom]

Good morning everyone , I don't post much but I have been trying to figure out who Caylee's father is since this all started. I have had several theories in the past but when I saw Jeff Hopkins on the stand the other day it just amazed me how much she kind of favors him. Did any of you insightful monkeys have the same thoughts?

 I agree she killed Caylee the night (June 16th) she and her mom had the big fight. Has anyone heard that she told her mother that night she would never see Caylee again? A caller on NG mentioned it but I had not heard that before. I do believe that she killed Caylee to get back at her mother.

I don't really see the resemblance

If Caylee resembled any of KC's friends, it was JP Chatt.   

JP was my first guess in the beginning. Then I kept thinking how she intergrates real life into her lies and thought maybe, but I think you are right Jeff...no, JP...yes. Thank you that clears up that...lol!

well, except that, by all accounts, Casey and JP did not meet until spring of 2008. 
I am remembering that LE released a statement in the fall of 2008 stating that they knew the identity of Caylee's father and that it was not relevant to the case, and would say no more on the subject. 

[klaasend]

According to all reports Casey didn't even know JP Chatt when Caylee was conceived.  

[Cappuccino]

I think the prosecution is well aware that George and Cindy have twisted the truth during this whole ordeal but their testimony (imho) is critical and so rather than call them out on some of the inconsistencies, they are using the important testimony (i.e. dead body smell, all the lies, etc).  At the end of this trial, it doesn't much matter to the jury whether Caylee died on the 15th or the 16th. 
In other words, I think the known facts are strong enough to overcome the unknown facts.

I think you are right and I also think they don't want to confuse the jury with things which are of no relevance, although I do believe the fight between Cindy and KC is very relevant. The problem as I see it is there is no way to prove it without it being hearsay evidence since Cindy won't tell the truth.

exactly....

Lee Anthony would have to take the stand again to testify to what he told Jesse Grund.  Reportedly, Mark Furham was also told about the altercation.
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/01/14/caseys-profile-part-6-her-motive/
There has been much talk about an alleged event that was reported early on to have taken place on June 15th, 2008, but has never been confirmed.  That was the day Cindy and Caylee went to Mt. Dora and visited Cindy’s mother and then her father in the nursing home.  Mark Fuhrman was the the first to state Cindy and George told him of a “big fight” on the night of June 15th.  Reference to this fight was made again in Richard Grund’s interview with OCSO when he stated Lee Anthony had told Jesse Grund of the fight.  Jesse would later confirm this in his September 9, 2008 interview with OCSO when he stated Lee had told him of a “heated argument” in which Cindy tried to choke Casey.

[Gypsy DD]

Lillian Glass is saying River Cruz told her George sought someone that looked like Zanny the nanny (her - River Cruz) out to pin the murder on.  Have you guys heard about this?

http://drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/

Here's the excerpt if you don't want to go to the blog

"Why did he have an alleged affair with River Cruz? According to River Cruz, George said that what happened to Caylee was an accident that snowballed.” River reached out to me and shared this information well before there was any talk of accidents. Did he seek out a person who looked like Zanny the Nanny (perfect teeth, curly hair who sometimes wears it straight, pretty, Latina, had a sister) to try and pin the disappearance on River Cruz? River told me that she certainly thought so."

I think Lillian Glass is full of chit. The police tracked river down from GA's phone records. She told the police this 'accident that snowballed' story immediately.  river sought GA out....LG needs to step away and not try to muddy the waters anymore than they are...MO

ITA...

There are so many inaccurate accounts and details out there now.  So many things to muddy the waters for people watching..but not for the jury.

You have to look at this the way the jury does..what they are presented with by the prosecution..and then what the defense is trying to discredit.  Innuendo about the rest of the family is just that ..not fact, not proven, not tested.

George and Lee have nothing to prove or disprove in this case..they are not on trial. 

The defense accusing them in the manner they have is despicable, but the defense can say and does say whatever it wants ..it does not have to present proof.

Had Jose left it at just the accident theory..no inclusion of the family or disparaging of the family..the jury may have believed this story..or at-least had doubt.

But the story from the defense has become to fantastical ...and the State was completely right to ignore this story..and get on with the prosecution of Casey using the facts and evidence they have.  The State does not need to disprove the defense theory..they need to prove their own theory. 

Baez was hoping the State would bite and they did not..they remained on course and true to their initial case.

[cubbeegirl]

We know Cindy, George and Lee turned a blind eye and made excuses for Casey

We suspect Cindy, George and Lee were less than honest about some things to protect Casey

We know that Cindy and George loved Caylee with all there heart and there is ZERO evidence that George ever harmed Caylee or Casey.

We know Casey is a spiteful bitch and is the only one capable of harming Caylee.  Casey may be bipolar or split personality (Casey = Zanny) or may simply be a spoiled monster but in the end, we know she is the guilty party and knew exactly what she was doing.

Summed it up perfectly klaas....

[Slogger]

I think the prosecution is well aware that George and Cindy have twisted the truth during this whole ordeal but their testimony (imho) is critical and so rather than call them out on some of the inconsistencies, they are using the important testimony (i.e. dead body smell, all the lies, etc).  At the end of this trial, it doesn't much matter to the jury whether Caylee died on the 15th or the 16th. 
In other words, I think the known facts are strong enough to overcome the unknown facts.

I think you are right and I also think they don't want to confuse the jury with things which are of no relevance, although I do believe the fight between Cindy and KC is very relevant. The problem as I see it is there is no way to prove it without it being hearsay evidence since Cindy won't tell the truth.

exactly....

The neighbor could testify and the Court could accept it as "excited utterance."

[pharlap]

Caylee and Cindy went swimming after I believe.
Maybe that's when the change of cloths.......so it could of been either 15-16.
 

[TURBOTHINK]

turbo, I thought LEE told Jesse about the 'fight' and KC told Lee....

I thought KC & Lee both told him about it for some reason. I guess when he testifies we will find out. I was thinking Lee told George as he was at work. Maybe I have it mixed up.

I just read Jesse's depo and Lee told him that Cindy told Lee. No one witnessed it but Cindy and KC so that will never come out. I was very mixed up on that one.

[SunnyinTX]

We know Cindy, George and Lee turned a blind eye and made excuses for Casey

We suspect Cindy, George and Lee were less than honest about some things to protect Casey

We know that Cindy and George loved Caylee with all there heart and there is ZERO evidence that George ever harmed Caylee or Casey.

We know Casey is a spiteful bitch and is the only one capable of harming Caylee.  Casey may be bipolar or split personality (Casey = Zanny) or may simply be a spoiled monster but in the end, we know she is the guilty party and knew exactly what she was doing.

Agree........but do they love Caylee enough to tell the truth?  They are still lying...I wonder if they are doing it to save KC or save themselves....IIRC they asked for immunity..

[SunnyinTX]

As far as the night Cindy and Casey had that big fight wasnt there some report that she was at or outside a hotel pacing back and forth talking on the phone, i have not heard anything about that. i dont think Casey spent the night there after the fight and i dont think george saw either on of them that morning

Yes there was. I can't remember the name of the hotel but she was either caught on tape or people saw her or both.

Nope, it came from Leonard Padilla

[TURBOTHINK]

Caylee and Cindy went swimming after I believe.
Maybe that's when the change of cloths.......so it could of been either 15-16.
 

June 15, 2008 (Sun)
05:00pm - 07:00pm
Cindy Anthony:(04/09/09 depo)
After Cindy fed Caylee, the two were swimming in the backyard swimming pool.

June 15, 2008 (Sun)
07:36pm est
Cindy Anthony:(04/09/09 depo)
When Casey came home she wanted to go swimming also but Cindy said sun went down, it was too cold and she was ready to take Caylee out of the swimming pool.

[cubbeegirl]

You guys are falling right into Bozo and Casey's hands, creating reasonable doubt.  There is absolutely NO comparison to the OJ case and if the OJ had been done today he would have been convicted.  DNA evidence was "new" back then. 

And now they wouldn't have allowed the gloves to be washed!

  It was 17 years ago today that Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered.   

WOW....how time flies....it seems like just a couple years ago... RIP Nicole and Ron

At least I can now rest assured that their murderer sits in a jail cell where he belongs....hope it was worth it OJ....RIP Nicole and Ron

[crazybabyborg]

You guys are falling right into Bozo and Casey's hands, creating reasonable doubt.  There is absolutely NO comparison to the OJ case and if the OJ had been done today he would have been convicted.  DNA evidence was "new" back then. 

Please forgive the retro post (I'm a few pages behind) but I couldn't let this pass without one of these:

 

I was dying to say just what you did at that point in the discussion, Klaas! Now, the air tests that Dr. Vass did are new as well, but he was a clear and concise witness, and what he testified to is supported by a lot of other evidence in the case (horrible smell in car, chloroform searches on computer that were deleted, blow flies, etc.) That's not to even mention the MOUNTAIN of circumstantial evidence Casey provided with her actions for 31 days. While I'm on that, let me say that I get so angry when reporters say, "She didn't report her child missing for 31 days." NO! To this day, she has NEVER reported her child missing! Cindy went and found her sorry azz, and CINDY reported Caylee missing with Casey kicking and screaming!

I can't help it; one small comment on OJ..... If I didn't want a pair of dried up leather gloves to fit...... trust me, they wouldn't! 

[TURBOTHINK]

As far as the night Cindy and Casey had that big fight wasnt there some report that she was at or outside a hotel pacing back and forth talking on the phone, i have not heard anything about that. i dont think Casey spent the night there after the fight and i dont think george saw either on of them that morning

Yes there was. I can't remember the name of the hotel but she was either caught on tape or people saw her or both.

Nope, it came from Leonard Padilla

Well then, that is probably not true at all. I knew I read it but I bet it was on a NG transcript

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - I'm not giving Cindy, George or Lee a pass, I still believe they all obstructed justice for Caylee but I don't believe Cindy, George or Lee harmed Caylee. 

We are on the same page.

Janet

[SunnyinTX]

Lillian Glass is saying River Cruz told her George sought someone that looked like Zanny the nanny (her - River Cruz) out to pin the murder on.  Have you guys heard about this?

http://drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/

Here's the excerpt if you don't want to go to the blog

"Why did he have an alleged affair with River Cruz? According to River Cruz, George said that what happened to Caylee was an accident that snowballed.” River reached out to me and shared this information well before there was any talk of accidents. Did he seek out a person who looked like Zanny the Nanny (perfect teeth, curly hair who sometimes wears it straight, pretty, Latina, had a sister) to try and pin the disappearance on River Cruz? River told me that she certainly thought so."

I think Lillian Glass is full of chit. The police tracked river down from GA's phone records. She told the police this 'accident that snowballed' story immediately.  river sought GA out....LG needs to step away and not try to muddy the waters anymore than they are...MO

ITA

It was interesting that a much more respectable body language expert, Tonya Reiman on Judge Jeanine last night went thru reactions from Cindy, George & Casey.  In essence,Tonya said that Cindy's testimony & grief was real & wrenching, George was telling the truth & Casey although shed a few tears carried it on for drama.

ITA! I saw her as well and agree with her interpretations...I felt she was right on with her observations and was impressed that she pointed out even minute actions that backed her opinion.

[Cappuccino]

Janet - I'm not giving Cindy, George or Lee a pass, I still believe they all obstructed justice for Caylee but I don't believe Cindy, George or Lee harmed Caylee. 

Again, ITA with you Klaas & Ill go further to say that the angst I have for the rest of the Anthonys was their attempt to protect Casey afterwards.   I've contemplated that they were willing to protect her & tamper with evidence because they prayed it was some sort of "accident" versus Casey murdering Caylee but their thank you for this from the "spiteful B" was for her to make horrendous allegations to destroy them in any manner she further could & take them down with her.   To me, Casey's allegations ONLY make her heinous crime of murdering Caylee even more heinous.   It is also my personal belief that Casey's previous computer searches reveal an even more sinister plot, she drugged Caylee so she could go out when otherwise she couldnt & planned to murder her parents...she wanted that house & the only way to get it is if they were dead.

[SunnyinTX]

Some people we have not seen yet are :
Jesse Grund
Pastor Grund
Joe Jordan (dont know if he will be used but he is another one who searched all the time for Caylee)
Roy Kronk (I would say only the defense will call him)
Tim Miller
Lenard P. (although most of his would be hearsay)
Rob Dick- (same)
Tracy - (who stayed with KC while out on bond)
Dominic Casey - (I REALLY want to hear how he knew where to look for the body under oath)
The info on the syringes and the chloroform found at the scene.

Also remember when Bozo said that the chloroform in the syringe and the gatorade bottle was "insignificant" because chloroform is found in tap water. Wonder if he is still going to stick with that story? LOL

I have to believe that George and Cindy will be taking the stand again. They are going to have to go thru time lines and discuss the evidence that was entered yesterday, ie duct tape. They are going to end with a bang and with all evidence entered, they can ask anything that ties it all together.

I can't wait to hear the States closing argument.

Morning Red!  Me too.  I hope  Jeff does it.....I love his passion!

Me too Sunny! But I think Linda could handle her just as well..

hi cubbee....I do too, but she doesn't have the passionate way of speaking that Jeff does. IMO  Either will do a good job, I have no doubt.

[Monkey King]

You guys are falling right into Bozo and Casey's hands, creating reasonable doubt.  There is absolutely NO comparison to the OJ case and if the OJ had been done today he would have been convicted.  DNA evidence was "new" back then. 

And now they wouldn't have allowed the gloves to be washed!

  It was 17 years ago today that Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered.   

WOW....how time flies....it seems like just a couple years ago... RIP Nicole and Ron

At least I can now rest assured that their murderer sits in a jail cell where he belongs....hope it was worth it OJ....RIP Nicole and Ron

Wow, doesn't seem that long ago.  Looks like our ages are showing!!   

[carpe noctem]

Lillian Glass is saying River Cruz told her George sought someone that looked like Zanny the nanny (her - River Cruz) out to pin the murder on.  Have you guys heard about this?

http://drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/

Here's the excerpt if you don't want to go to the blog

"Why did he have an alleged affair with River Cruz? According to River Cruz, George said that what happened to Caylee was an accident that snowballed.” River reached out to me and shared this information well before there was any talk of accidents. Did he seek out a person who looked like Zanny the Nanny (perfect teeth, curly hair who sometimes wears it straight, pretty, Latina, had a sister) to try and pin the disappearance on River Cruz? River told me that she certainly thought so."

I think Lillian Glass is full of chit. The police tracked river down from GA's phone records. She told the police this 'accident that snowballed' story immediately.  river sought GA out....LG needs to step away and not try to muddy the waters anymore than they are...MO

ITA...

There are so many inaccurate accounts and details out there now.  So many things to muddy the waters for people watching..but not for the jury.

You have to look at this the way the jury does..what they are presented with by the prosecution..and then what the defense is trying to discredit.  Innuendo about the rest of the family is just that ..not fact, not proven, not tested.

George and Lee have nothing to prove or disprove in this case..they are not on trial. 

The defense accusing them in the manner they have is despicable, but the defense can say and does say whatever it wants ..it does not have to present proof.

Had Jose left it at just the accident theory..no inclusion of the family or disparaging of the family..the jury may have believed this story..or at-least had doubt.

But the story from the defense has become to fantastical ...and the State was completely right to ignore this story..and get on with the prosecution of Casey using the facts and evidence they have.  The State does not need to disprove the defense theory..they need to prove their own theory. 

Baez was hoping the State would bite and they did not..they remained on course and true to their initial case.

I understand what you mean... but if they continue to commit perjury in sworn statements and under oath, to this day... and they do, this is fact.... they are fair game to be sliced and diced apart.
Why do they continue to do it to themselves? The truth is so easy to remember. It's very ugly, but easy to remember.