Lively Case Discussion #601 4/15 - 4/17/2007

[robots]

Could it be, unlikely as it sounds that it is Paulus who wears the size 14 shoe and Joran the 10.5 as verified by the Dutch interrogators?

Could J2k have been parked at the RacquetClub as witnessed by the gardener while trying to figure out a way to dispose of Natalee in the muck in the pond and that is where Joran lost his shoes?  Is that why the Kalpoe car had to be washed out immediately?

Did they call and were they waiting for Paulus to pick up Joran and Natalee from there instead of at McDonalds?

Anything is possible.

.

I have thought that could be the case.  They had a passed out Natalee and then realized they couldn't wake her up.  She may not have been dead, but was close.  Then when Paulus got there and found out what happened he sent the K2 to clean the car and took Joran and Natalee off.

 Took her to the Sloot residence.

.

yep

[Carnut]

In this photo from Joran's release, look at the size of Anita's foot next to Joran's.  Either Anita has an exceptionally large foot or Joran's isn't a size 14.  Anna - you could be right on!!!

Think the dutch interrogator already pointed out JVDS was wearing a 10.5. during his interview.

[adoronron]

Nite All. Going to hit the sack.

Thanks for the responses to my ATM related questions.
I have some ideas on what I think may have gone on that night, but still am looking for more information and don't want to throw my scenario out here yet until I have my puzzle pieces gathered.

I'll just thow this out for now and check for opinions in the morning. Who would Joran be covering for by claiming he wore size 14 shoes? Who wears a size 14?

Ado

[Angiex911dsptchr]

[quote="robots i dont find you skerrrrrrrrrry at all,  


men and women are just differnet, not any better not any worse
just different
i like it that way, although some organizations try to make us all the same

i wont go off on a rant here... but maybe in another thread sometime
but the cold hard facts are we all need each other and thats the bottom line  [/quote]

 I agree 100% Robots!     No time to argue with folks. !!

[klaasend]

Nite All. Going to hit the sack.

Thanks for the responses to my ATM related questions.
I have some ideas on what I think may have gone on that night, but still am looking for more information and don't want to throw my scenario out here yet until I have my puzzle pieces gathered.

I'll just thow this out for now and check for opinions in the morning. Who would Joran be covering for by claiming he wore size 14 shoes? Who wears a size 14?

Ado

We are wondering if PVDS wears a 14.

Nite!

[San]

I remember reading about the ATM withdrawls as well back at RWV. The rumor was he used the ATM two times I beleave. I always wondered about Fransisco the witness who said he helped bury natalee and was locked up in a mental institute. Art said last week that his friends said he isnt crazy.Several stories came out about that night behind the Mariott involving two others. Either way hitting the ATM after 2.30 AM is suspicious. I certainly dont beleave for a minute that Joran won that much cash from a free tournament of texas hold em.

I never have seen one lick of proof of ATM transactions but we havent seen anything of substance from the investigation except for some bogus internet chat. Even the damn computer was tampered with.

Welcome!  Glad you are here.

Concerning the ATM.  The only mention we have of two trips any place near an ATM was Paulus' two trips to the bank to deposit money.  There is always some smidgen of truth to the lies.

I think this really happened and I think there were Arubans who saw either the deposit slips or video cam from that time and strangely enough that camera was not working by the time we heard of it.  I take "camera not working" chit with a grain of salt.  I think he made the deposits and I think he was caught by deposit slips and the lady who worked at the bank who died recently was the one who was aware of it and perhaps a witness, and Paulus went to the bank (maybe twice) the following day to see her, talk with her, make a deposit.  Why?  Why did he not wait in line for the next teller instead of insisting on seeing her and what did she die from?

Tyler I agree.  I believe the bank transactions are one of many things that the ALE has on Paulus.  The transaction and the video are big.

The lady at the bank died from Paulitious.  It's called fear of drowning from a sweaty man.

[Tylergal]

Anna,

You seem to remember most of the details. I was asking about he 4 AM ATM stop earlier today and the only thing I could find out was that it may have been a fabrication that came out of RU. Is that all it was? In other words, there is no proof of an ATM stop at 4 AM?

Ado

I am just reading this and perhaps Anna has already answered by now, but RU was not even up and running at that time and I have never been able to find anything that reconciled the 4 a.m. ATM except what some Arubans who were posting on some boards at the time told us.  Maybe Anna has better information and will post, but that is all I know and I think you and I have posted on the same boards in the past -- no?

The only time I heard someone mention the ATM transaction on TV was when Geraldo Rivera was a guest on the show The View.  Geraldo would have to know something to mention it.

Geraldo and his brother seemed to be digging up some pretty good stuff in Aurba and were called off the case.  Greta who seems to be Roger Ailes' favorite adversial commentator got it all hook, line and sinker and soon Geraldo was sent off to Fox-local and now Geraldo is back but does not seem to have exclusives on anything --- the prodigal attorney, Greta, seems to get it all.

[Anna]

I have three 6 ft plus sons and those are not Size 14 shoes just as his foot was close to the size of Greta's who is absolutely tiny, maybe not five feet tall.   I would guess her shoe size to be maybe a five tops.  That would mean his foot would have to be almost three times the size of hers and yet they appear the same size.

Some of it is camera angle distortion but that is not enough to account for it all.  

But then I see little heads on tables, too.  

     

[Anna]

Could it be, unlikely as it sounds that it is Paulus who wears the size 14 shoe and Joran the 10.5 as verified by the Dutch interrogators?

Could J2k have been parked at the RacquetClub as witnessed by the gardener while trying to figure out a way to dispose of Natalee in the muck in the pond and that is where Joran lost his shoes?  Is that why the Kalpoe car had to be washed out immediately?

Did they call and were they waiting for Paulus to pick up Joran and Natalee from there instead of at McDonalds?

Anything is possible.

.

I have thought that could be the case.  They had a passed out Natalee and then realized they couldn't wake her up.  She may not have been dead, but was close.  Then when Paulus got there and found out what happened he sent the K2 to clean the car and took Joran and Natalee off.

 Took her to the Sloot residence.

.

yep

Thought if he could get her to eat something, she might be OK.  Tried to feed her that Waldorf salad, big mistake.

.

[klaasend]

10.5 next to a size 5



Anita must have pretty large feet.  Judging by this picture looks like Joran may not have a size 14.  

Carnut - yes we know the Dutch interrigators pointed out the 10.5 but Joran still insisted he wore a 14.

[San]

Nite All. Going to hit the sack.

Thanks for the responses to my ATM related questions.
I have some ideas on what I think may have gone on that night, but still am looking for more information and don't want to throw my scenario out here yet until I have my puzzle pieces gathered.

I'll just thow this out for now and check for opinions in the morning. Who would Joran be covering for by claiming he wore size 14 shoes? Who wears a size 14?

Ado

We are wondering if PVDS wears a 14.

Nite!

Klaas in that photo you posted Anita is in front of Joran so you really can't tell if he has big feet or not.  At least I can't tell.

[AZSunny]

Angie - did you say this kid is 23?  Unfortunately, he is an adult in the eyes of the law and so are you.  I actually doubt if you called the cops they would do anything.  Don't get me wrong, what he did was really sick, I just don't think there's alot you can do.  If he's still living with his parents, about the only thing you could do is let them know what he's doing from THEIR home.

I am not sure that there aren't laws against using cellphones for transmission of obscene materials. Just like regular phones.

I think that since the Patriot Act and 911, there are boundries and I think our law enforcement keeps an eye out for unsolicited porno.  Do you recall the teacher who was convicted because it was on her computer and it was one of those things that could have happened to any of us.  I have clicked many porn sites since Natalee disappeared, somehing I had never done before, and now I am constantly barraged the garbage as a result.  Yes, I think law enforcement takes a dim view of unsolicited porno, wherever the transmission originated, but to an unsolicited person.

Angie,  I am seeing this a different way.  I think this 'kid' has a problem and he is a flasher or worse.   I would contact the police if you still have the video.  Show it to them, and let them handle it.  He could be sending it to 13 year girls too.  His parents should be alerted, but I would let the police do this.  He is a pervert in my eyes.

[sb]

I am afraid that it is Anita who has big, huge, ugly boats. It is not really possible to make the comparison and gauge what Joran wears from that. I don't think 14's for him are out of the question.

[robots]

so, where did the size 14 .5 come from ???


hmmmmmmmmmmmm  

[San]

Anna,

You seem to remember most of the details. I was asking about he 4 AM ATM stop earlier today and the only thing I could find out was that it may have been a fabrication that came out of RU. Is that all it was? In other words, there is no proof of an ATM stop at 4 AM?

Ado

I am just reading this and perhaps Anna has already answered by now, but RU was not even up and running at that time and I have never been able to find anything that reconciled the 4 a.m. ATM except what some Arubans who were posting on some boards at the time told us.  Maybe Anna has better information and will post, but that is all I know and I think you and I have posted on the same boards in the past -- no?

The only time I heard someone mention the ATM transaction on TV was when Geraldo Rivera was a guest on the show The View.  Geraldo would have to know something to mention it.

Geraldo and his brother seemed to be digging up some pretty good stuff in Aurba and were called off the case.  Greta who seems to be Roger Ailes' favorite adversial commentator got it all hook, line and sinker and soon Geraldo was sent off to Fox-local and now Geraldo is back but does not seem to have exclusives on anything --- the prodigal attorney, Greta, seems to get it all.

From what I remember Geraldo and his brother had some good sources in Aruba.  I remember hearing him say from a reliable source and it wasn't Jossy.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

I am 5 9 1/2 and wear a size 10 to 11 in a chicky shoe.

[robots]

im 5 9 and wear size 9.5  

[Tylergal]

10.5 next to a size 5



Anita must have pretty large feet.  Judging by this picture looks like Joran may not have a size 14.  

Carnut - yes we know the Dutch interrigators pointed out the 10.5 but Joran still insisted he wore a 14.

I would guess anita is about a size 9 shoe.  She has the body surface area for that, but then that is not always the way it works.  However, most women of that stature have big feet.  If she has big feet and Paulus has big feet, then it would stand to reason, the Sporter might have big feet.  His feet do look cramped in those shoes.

Anyone can wear a smaller size if they want to.  I wear a 6-1/2 and my friend told me when I was in a beauty pageant that my feet were too big in my swim suit for the size of my body, so she forced me to wear her 4's.  My feet were almost paralyzed by crowning time.    

[klaasend]

so, where did the size 14 .5 come from ???


hmmmmmmmmmmmm  

It was a size 14, and Dompig announced when they were draining the pond area that they were looking for a pair of size 14 k-swiss.  That Joran had left them behind or lost them.  It was like a big announcement in Aruba they even put up posters so people would be on the lookout.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

AZ  TY for your advice.