Lively Case Discussion #601 4/15 - 4/17/2007

[Tylergal]

I remember all the shoe/shoe size discussions.  Shoes are such an issue with this case.  And how is this significant?  What is Joran's REAL shoe size?  I mean, couldn't someone get one of those shoe sizer thingys and measure it?  Is the shoe thing a red herring?  Makes me wonder if he kicked or stamped on Natalee, leaving footprints

My DH got an e-mail from someone in Aruba very early on saying there was a shoe with Natalee's blood on it and that it took place at the HI.

[Carnut]

I really hate to do this, but I am intrigued by the injection of Waldorf Salad into the picture, and tonight is the first I've heard about it.

What's the story on it? Where did we hear about it?

I am with you msmarple...I have never heard anything about this (that I remember)

The salad story is a new one on me as well.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

so, when paulus put Natalee in the septic tank
that is where he lost his shoes

Ah yes, the Granny Toad theory

 

 Yep Muffy.  !
   Sure hope these 10 investigators that went to Aruba are up to something good. IMO .. it does not take 10 people to close a case as some have speculted thats what may be happening. Something  else  IMO has to be going on, but thats just my feelings.
  Hope we hear some news  soon.

[Patti]

I still think that there might be something to this witness that has been
discredited and deported to Columbia.

He said that he had taken a couple things, after witnessing a rape and
murder.  He said that the man that had raped and killed this girl was
in the process of disposing of her body, when he took a couple things.

The more I think about it the more it seems logical that he might have
taken a shoe or two.  Why?   Because the man would be at a disadvantage without shoes to protect his feet.

There has to be  a reason for all the questions posed by the investigators
about shoes, and shoe size.  Maybe they were trying to tie Joran in with
the shoes.  Why else would it matter if he were barefoot or not.  This is
Aruba... warm most the time.... I'm sure that people walk barefoot some-
times and people think nothing of it.

[Lala'sMom]

My DH wears size 10 1/2 shoes and he's short compared to Joran. Anita has a large foot.  I wear a size 8 and my foot looks small.  Her foot is more like a 9 or even a 10.  Why don't they just measure those feet?  It is not that hard to find out if he wears a 14.  Maybe the shoes belonged to some big fat guy...let's see who could that be?  Koen?  Steve Croes?  The one that helped may have lost the shoe and they said it was Joran's as a cover.  Well, maybe that's a bit over the top...I will slink off to the corner for a bit.

[Anna]

I read two different articles on the dutch measuring his feet and the other time they felt to make sure his feet fit the shoe. Both times stated his feet were 10.5

Somebody is lying there ass off about the size of his feet. Thats a big discrepency from 10.5 to size 14.

Hi, *******,
Do you remember me from RWV?  I was Anna there and sometimes IMHO~Anna.  We have posted at the same sites for a very long time, no?  

You are exactly right, the Dutch interrogator measured the feet to the Size 10.5 fitting, etc. and firmly established that he did in fact wear a Size 10.5.  

I am sure if his shoes were four sizes too small, Joran would not hesitate to complain long and loud.  Not one to exactly suffer in silence that I can see.

I don't know why some continue to insist he wears a different size just because he says so.  I mean, it's not as though the boy never lies about anything and he just lied about the shoe size as well.

.

[sb]

Could it be some kind of a fad with these peeps to wear shoes that are bigger than they need to be? Like maybe it will attract girls somehow that they are supposed to have big feet?

There was a, ahem, "theory" about that posed a while back. Not wanting to open that exact line of thought up too much...   but could there have been a reason WHY Joran wanted to wear big floppy shoes?

[Carnut]

My DH wears size 10 1/2 shoes and he's short compared to Joran. Anita has a large foot.  I wear a size 8 and my foot looks small.  Her foot is more like a 9 or even a 10.  Why don't they just measure those feet?  It is not that hard to find out if he wears a 14.  Maybe the shoes belonged to some big fat guy...let's see who could that be?  Koen?  Steve Croes?  The one that helped may have lost the shoe and they said it was Joran's as a cover.  Well, maybe that's a bit over the top...I will slink off to the corner for a bit.

A dutch interrogator did check the size show JVDS was wearing in an interview, it was 10.5.

[MuffyBee]

I think it was a cistern, which is like an underground water collection/storage, instead of a septic tank that some believe Natalee was put into on the Sloots property.  (You know the place.  The one that was supposedly searched, and then we found they only searched a small part of it.  Which is the same one that Paulus wouldn't let Equisearch check out.  Uh-huh...)

[Tylergal]

My DH wears size 10 1/2 shoes and he's short compared to Joran. Anita has a large foot.  I wear a size 8 and my foot looks small.  Her foot is more like a 9 or even a 10.  Why don't they just measure those feet?  It is not that hard to find out if he wears a 14.  Maybe the shoes belonged to some big fat guy...let's see who could that be?  Koen?  Steve Croes?  The one that helped may have lost the shoe and they said it was Joran's as a cover.  Well, maybe that's a bit over the top...I will slink off to the corner for a bit.

That's what I was thinking, Lala's.  I wonder who wore a size 14.  It might be they are sending signals to someone involved by mentioning the size "14."  I would like to know who that someone is.  The size 14 is not as much a red herring as it is a message to someone to shut up (the owner of the size 14).

[Patti]

I still think that there might be something to this witness that has been
discredited and deported to Columbia.

He said that he had taken a couple things, after witnessing a rape and
murder.  He said that the man that had raped and killed this girl was
in the process of disposing of her body, when he took a couple things.

The more I think about it the more it seems logical that he might have
taken a shoe or two.  Why?   Because the man would be at a disadvantage without shoes to protect his feet.

There has to be  a reason for all the questions posed by the investigators
about shoes, and shoe size.  Maybe they were trying to tie Joran in with
the shoes.  Why else would it matter if he were barefoot or not.  This is
Aruba... warm most the time.... I'm sure that people walk barefoot some-
times and people think nothing of it.

What I mean is that if the man from Columbia had been seen and the
rapist had decided to take chase... wouldn't a man with shoes on his feet
be at a big, big advantage over a man without shoes.  Especially if it were
at an area that is similar to the rock area where there is a lot of brush and
rocky terrain.

[Tylergal]

Could it be some kind of a fad with these peeps to wear shoes that are bigger than they need to be? Like maybe it will attract girls somehow that they are supposed to have big feet?

There was a, ahem, "theory" about that posed a while back. Not wanting to open that exact line of thought up too much...   but could there have been a reason WHY Joran wanted to wear big floppy shoes?

Well, it has always been hypothesized that if you wore a big shoe, you would not need Viagra, so I suppose this could be a part of the bragadocious size 14.

[MuffyBee]

Could it be some kind of a fad with these peeps to wear shoes that are bigger than they need to be? Like maybe it will attract girls somehow that they are supposed to have big feet?

There was a, ahem, "theory" about that posed a while back. Not wanting to open that exact line of thought up too much...   but could there have been a reason WHY Joran wanted to wear big floppy shoes?

You are posted what I was thinking, SB.  Maybe Joran does have small feet for his height.  I always heard big feet, big****   So, with Joran, that would be small feet, small****.  Maybe that's why he was mean and abusive to Natalee as a female.  Dunno  Maybe he had a complex, sota speak

[Anna]

My DH wears size 10 1/2 shoes and he's short compared to Joran. Anita has a large foot.  I wear a size 8 and my foot looks small.  Her foot is more like a 9 or even a 10.  Why don't they just measure those feet?  It is not that hard to find out if he wears a 14.  Maybe the shoes belonged to some big fat guy...let's see who could that be?  Koen?  Steve Croes?  The one that helped may have lost the shoe and they said it was Joran's as a cover.  Well, maybe that's a bit over the top...I will slink off to the corner for a bit.

A dutch interrogator did check the size show JVDS was wearing in an interview, it was 10.5.

Yes, he did, Carnut.  Firmly established that Joran was most comfortably wearing a 10.5 shoe size in jail.

And since he played tennis, I don't think he could wear lose fitting shoes without getting blisters especially on the bottoms of toes.

.

[robots]

i still say abandoned septic tank

they can be opened in 5 minutes very easily, as many have handles (2)

in case people dont know much about them

picture a man hole cover, and there is a holding tank usually made of concrete or cement holding several hundred gallons of water
 

easy and quick

[klaasend]

I think it was a cistern, which is like an underground water collection/storage, instead of a septic tank that some believe Natalee was put into on the Sloots property.  (You know the place.  The one that was supposedly searched, and then we found they only searched a small part of it.  Which is the same one that Paulus wouldn't let Equisearch check out.  Uh-huh...)

Yep - TES was only able to search from the next door neighbors side.  PVDS would not allow TES on his property.

[Lala'sMom]

I still think that there might be something to this witness that has been
discredited and deported to Columbia.

He said that he had taken a couple things, after witnessing a rape and
murder.  He said that the man that had raped and killed this girl was
in the process of disposing of her body, when he took a couple things.

The more I think about it the more it seems logical that he might have
taken a shoe or two.  Why?   Because the man would be at a disadvantage without shoes to protect his feet.

There has to be  a reason for all the questions posed by the investigators
about shoes, and shoe size.  Maybe they were trying to tie Joran in with
the shoes.  Why else would it matter if he were barefoot or not.  This is
Aruba... warm most the time.... I'm sure that people walk barefoot some-
times and people think nothing of it.

Let's say you are right...how do find this witness now?  Is he still alive?  How would anyone know?

[MuffyBee]

i still say abandoned septic tank

they can be opened in 5 minutes very easily, as many have handles (2)

in case people dont know much about them

picture a man hole cover, and there is a holding tank usually made of concrete or cement holding several hundred gallons of water
 

easy and quick

I know what you mean.  My house is still on a septic.  I just thought the place that was discussed about the Sloots was a cistern.   Granny Toad from RWV had some interesting theories about it

[Patti]

I remember all the shoe/shoe size discussions.  Shoes are such an issue with this case.  And how is this significant?  What is Joran's REAL shoe size?  I mean, couldn't someone get one of those shoe sizer thingys and measure it?  Is the shoe thing a red herring?  Makes me wonder if he kicked or stamped on Natalee, leaving footprints

Maybe... but what would they have had to compare the imprint with?

[klaasend]

I still think that there might be something to this witness that has been
discredited and deported to Columbia.

He said that he had taken a couple things, after witnessing a rape and
murder.  He said that the man that had raped and killed this girl was
in the process of disposing of her body, when he took a couple things.

The more I think about it the more it seems logical that he might have
taken a shoe or two.  Why?   Because the man would be at a disadvantage without shoes to protect his feet.

There has to be  a reason for all the questions posed by the investigators
about shoes, and shoe size.  Maybe they were trying to tie Joran in with
the shoes.  Why else would it matter if he were barefoot or not.  This is
Aruba... warm most the time.... I'm sure that people walk barefoot some-
times and people think nothing of it.

What I mean is that if the man from Columbia had been seen and the
rapist had decided to take chase... wouldn't a man with shoes on his feet
be at a big, big advantage over a man without shoes.  Especially if it were
at an area that is similar to the rock area where there is a lot of brush and
rocky terrain.

Except this man didn't even come forward until approx a year later.