Lively Case Discussion #601 4/15 - 4/17/2007

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Could it be some kind of a fad with these peeps to wear shoes that are bigger than they need to be? Like maybe it will attract girls somehow that they are supposed to have big feet?

There was a, ahem, "theory" about that posed a while back. Not wanting to open that exact line of thought up too much...   but could there have been a reason WHY Joran wanted to wear big floppy shoes?

 

 LOL SB    I think I know where you are going with this.
 I dunno if anyone ever came to a real conclusion about the shoes.
  IMO thery are out there.. but where? who has them? Or even one shoe for that matter?  Kalpoes perhaps?   This shoe thingy had always been a mystery.

[robots]

i still say abandoned septic tank

they can be opened in 5 minutes very easily, as many have handles (2)

in case people dont know much about them

picture a man hole cover, and there is a holding tank usually made of concrete or cement holding several hundred gallons of water
 

easy and quick

I know what you mean.  My house is still on a septic.  I just thought the place that was discussed about the Sloots was a cistern.   Granny Toad from RWV had some interesting theories about it

yep, sloots is a CESSPOOL,,, well at least most of the family is    

mine is also a septic system because i live in the sticks    

[msmarple]

I don't have a theory about the shoes, but I am pretty sure JVDS somehow lost/left behind a pair of shoes that night, and it is significant.

The following is from DK's 06/13/2005 statement, which he signed. There had been several references to JVDS mentioning being barefoot, retrieving shoes, etc.

But this is the part that sounds very "real" to me, like a genuine slip-up. DK is describing the entourage going to the HI after the driveway meeting.

Between 03:20 hours and 03:25 hours [3:20-3:25 am], we had arrived at the Holiday Inn Hotel. When we arrived there, the police officer(s) went to the manager of the security guards to try and get the details of the security guards that worked at the hotel. We had remained outside in front of the entrance. We just waited. Joran and his dad were talking at the police car. I could not hear what they were saying. I stood at one of the concrete beam/pillar in front of the lobby. The man [Charles Croes]  who had driven the green Yaris called me to come over to where he was. I went over to him. The man was sitting in the car. The man asked me in Papiamentu whether or not the story we told was true. I said yes to him. During the conversation I had with him I had for one reason or another shot my mouth off and said something about the sporting shoes. The man asked me what I meant by sporting shoes. I then said to him that I was thinking about something unrelated/different.

[Tylergal]

What was the name of the bouncer who eviscerated himself in a cave after taking cocaine?   Was he not a big man!

[MuffyBee]

I remember all the shoe/shoe size discussions.  Shoes are such an issue with this case.  And how is this significant?  What is Joran's REAL shoe size?  I mean, couldn't someone get one of those shoe sizer thingys and measure it?  Is the shoe thing a red herring?  Makes me wonder if he kicked or stamped on Natalee, leaving footprints

Maybe... but what would they have had to compare the imprint with?

Patti, I am sorry to seem graphic, but if she was kicked, it may have left imprints or marks on her body   Even if the shoes he wore that night couldn't be found, it might be possible if Natalee had been recovered early on, the shoe size could be figured out.  Sometimes amazing things can be found.  But then, sometimes folks watch CSI and we all expect forensics and such to be a lot better and faster than it really is in life.

[klaasend]

Red posted this back in July 2006:



Yup, Red was there. As a matter of a fact ... Red took this picture.

The Search of Paul VDS’s neighbor’s property, Part II
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/04/pictures-from-august-04-2005/

They searched (Joe Huston) with Vision Stick

What is important to remember there was a sewer (which you are looking at here) and a water resevoir that was loacated.


This is the search of the well/water resevoir on neighbors property:

Texas EquuSearch Returns for further inspection of VDS’s Neighbors Property

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/02/pictures-from-the-reservoir/


Here is the post on the rest of the search that was done on the neighbor's property.

The one that should have been done on the VDS property.

EquuSearch searches Neighbor’s Property Next To Van Der Sloot House

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/02/van-der-sloot-house/

[Patti]

I still think that there might be something to this witness that has been
discredited and deported to Columbia.

He said that he had taken a couple things, after witnessing a rape and
murder.  He said that the man that had raped and killed this girl was
in the process of disposing of her body, when he took a couple things.

The more I think about it the more it seems logical that he might have
taken a shoe or two.  Why?   Because the man would be at a disadvantage without shoes to protect his feet.

There has to be  a reason for all the questions posed by the investigators
about shoes, and shoe size.  Maybe they were trying to tie Joran in with
the shoes.  Why else would it matter if he were barefoot or not.  This is
Aruba... warm most the time.... I'm sure that people walk barefoot some-
times and people think nothing of it.

Let's say you are right...how do find this witness now?  Is he still alive?  How would anyone know?

WELL, for one thing... if the investigators had, indeed, been questioning
Joran based on this eye-witness statements, then there would have to be a record of it, wouldn't there?  Under normal circumstances there would
be anyway.  Maybe it's in that box of stuff that was sent to Holland.

The one thing that I don't like about their witness statements is that it
doesn't include the investigators questions.  I think that if that were
included, we could have a better indication why he continually says things
in his statements like, "she wanted me to have sex with her, but I didn't
have a condom"... the mentioning of NOT having a condom, may be an
indication that the officer was questioning him about a condom as well.

[klaasend]

What was the name of the bouncer who eviscerated himself in a cave after taking cocaine?   Was he not a big man!

I don't think Pitbull was as tall as Joran.  He was stockier, IMO

[Carnut]

I remember all the shoe/shoe size discussions.  Shoes are such an issue with this case.  And how is this significant?  What is Joran's REAL shoe size?  I mean, couldn't someone get one of those shoe sizer thingys and measure it?  Is the shoe thing a red herring?  Makes me wonder if he kicked or stamped on Natalee, leaving footprints

Maybe... but what would they have had to compare the imprint with?

Patti, I am sorry to seem graphic, but if she was kicked, it may have left imprints or marks on her body   Even if the shoes he wore that night couldn't be found, it might be possible if Natalee had been recovered early on, the shoe size could be figured out.  Sometimes amazing things can be found.  But then, sometimes folks watch CSI and we all expect forensics and such to be a lot better and faster than it really is in life.

Forensics can go either way, if a body is found with identifable material on it or if an item is found with something identifiable on the item.

Body with shoe material on it or shoe with blood/DNA on them.

Course, no body, no forensics on body.

[bleachedblack]

Evening Monkeys. Here to offer my opinion about Jorans shoe size. I think it is most likely that he does wear a size 14. My husband is 6'3" and wears a 13. My daughter is 5'9" and at 16 wears a girls 10.5. I think it would be anatomically disproportionally small for someone Jorans size to wear a 10.5 size shoe JMHO.

[Tylergal]

I remember all the shoe/shoe size discussions.  Shoes are such an issue with this case.  And how is this significant?  What is Joran's REAL shoe size?  I mean, couldn't someone get one of those shoe sizer thingys and measure it?  Is the shoe thing a red herring?  Makes me wonder if he kicked or stamped on Natalee, leaving footprints

Maybe... but what would they have had to compare the imprint with?

Patti, I am sorry to seem graphic, but if she was kicked, it may have left imprints or marks on her body   Even if the shoes he wore that night couldn't be found, it might be possible if Natalee had been recovered early on, the shoe size could be figured out.  Sometimes amazing things can be found.  But then, sometimes folks watch CSI and we all expect forensics and such to be a lot better and faster than it really is in life.

Forensics can go either way, if a body is found with identifable material on it or if an item is found with something identifiable on the item.

Body with shoe material on it or shoe with blood/DNA on them.

Course, no body, no forensics on body.

"When they find the girl, they are going to see all that shit..."

"I will laugh if they find the girl..."

What shit?  DNA, shoe prints, what shit?

[Observer]

Hi, *******,
Do you remember me from RWV? I was Anna there and sometimes IMHO~Anna. We have posted at the same sites for a very long time, no?  


I do remember you..lol..Many people here I recognize from  RWV way back early in this nightmare. Boy did Dan Hate SM!! He went bonkers when the paypal link went up here..

[bleachedblack]

What was the name of the bouncer who eviscerated himself in a cave after taking cocaine?   Was he not a big man!

I have never heard this to be the case. Is anyone else aware that Pitbull eviscerated himself? Then who cut of his legs, who cut off his privates, nailed him to a board and then set him on fire?

[Patti]

I knew what Muffy was saying... but there was no body to compare the
imprints with... there had to be another reason why those shoes were
so important.

[crazybabyborg]

O/T

Patti/Klaas? Do you have a "clean" avatar for Patti? If so, could you post it, please? TIA!

[Carnut]

What was the name of the bouncer who eviscerated himself in a cave after taking cocaine?   Was he not a big man!

I have never heard this to be the case. Is anyone else aware that Pitbull eviscerated himself? Then who cut of his legs, who cut off his privates, nailed him to a board and then set him on fire?

Typical arubacide.

[Tylergal]

What was the name of the bouncer who eviscerated himself in a cave after taking cocaine?   Was he not a big man!

I have never heard this to be the case. Is anyone else aware that Pitbull eviscerated himself? Then who cut of his legs, who cut off his privates, nailed him to a board and then set him on fire?

The Arubans told us he killed himself with an overdose, do you not remember that and later we found that he had been amputated, eviscerated and and sat on fire?  It was a play on words; however, I guess I did not make myself clear enough.

[Tylergal]

Hi, *******,
Do you remember me from RWV? I was Anna there and sometimes IMHO~Anna. We have posted at the same sites for a very long time, no?  


I do remember you..lol..Many people here I recognize from  RWV way back early in this nightmare. Boy did Dan Hate SM!! He went bonkers when the paypal link went up here..

Were you there the night he got the photographs?  The night he went bonkers over Red going to Aruba?  What a self-absorbed small person.

[msmarple]

What was the name of the bouncer who eviscerated himself in a cave after taking cocaine?   Was he not a big man!

I have never heard this to be the case. Is anyone else aware that Pitbull eviscerated himself? Then who cut of his legs, who cut off his privates, nailed him to a board and then set him on fire?

The Arubans told us he killed himself with an overdose, do you not remember that and later we found that he had been amputated, eviscerated and and sat on fire?  It was a play on words; however, I guess I did not make myself clear enough.

... and crucified ....

[crazybabyborg]

How tall is Joran, anyway? My son is 6ft 2in and wears a size 14 shoe. (He'd be a lot taller if so much of him weren't turned in-under).  

John wears a 10 and is only 5ft 10in.