Lively Case Discussion #601 4/15 - 4/17/2007

[Tylergal]

No, I mean the place that Dash said they were going was Mambo Jambo and the place the guy said he was watching from was Bahia.

[Observer]

I remember the FBI thing at RWV and that was hilarious!! Almost as funny as when Dan was banning people left and right..But that was back when everyone was waiting in line to ask scubajap questions Yuck!!!

Nighty Nite Everyone!!

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

[Leslie]

From Diario:   Part of today's Editorial by Jossy Mansur:
Dia cu mi a bisa cu e Gobierno di Nel Oduber ta anti-Americano tambe, mi a bin cu e pruebanan pa demostre, pero mi a laga un banda otronan cu ta hopi doloroso pa Nel, sinembargo, ya cu el a bolbe perde cabez manera di custumbra, sin por pone control riba su lenga di shishi, ata mas di e pruebanan ey: Natalee Holloway (Americano) y e mucha muher Americano cu su yiu a maltrata y djey kier a rape (viola) den su propio cas! E tata, un Panameño, a manda tur e recaudonan pa mi, incluyendo raportnan clinico di maltrato fisico, y mi no a publica tur pa motibo di discrecion y consideracion pa un persona cu no merece.
Kico Nel su gobierno a haci den e caso di Natalee? Sconde cabez manera un avestruz pa no mira e berdad di loke tabata pasando; purba core cu Jan y Karin pasobra nan no tabata pertenece na e ja-knikkernan politico di su Gobierno; pone e interes pa e placa di turismo Americano riba e balor di un vida humano; dal tur clase di buelta pa tira e culpa riba e famia di e desaparecido, na lugar di bay all-out contra e tres sospechosonan cu ta e responsablenan di e mal nomber cu Aruba a haya den exterior, y merecidamente pasobra esnan na poder no a lanta un dede pa defende e victimanan, sino a cucuya tras di cortina pa Pueblo kere cu ta e famia ta responsable pa e imagen negativo cu Aruba a haya, y no e tres responsablenan pa un desaparicion cu a ocuri mientras cu e mucha tabata cu nan! E ta un Americano!

[msmarple]

For what it's worth - here's the online Pap translation. (It was a long editorial and I may have slightly more or less of it here than Leslie posted.)

Jossy definitely on a tear. Talking about Nelson Oduber and his government being anti-American, demonstrated by victimization of Natalee Holloway and now Michael Saladin too. (As far as I know, he is still being detained, although physically in the hospital per the last story I tried to read.)

Diario 04/16/2007 - Jossy Mansur editorial (excerpt):

day cu i have tell cu the gobierno of nel oduber is anti-americano also, i have come cu the pruebanan for demostre, but i have let one near others cu is much painful for nel, sinembargo, already cu past owing to go back lose cabez as of custumbra, without can place control on his language of shishi, behold more of the pruebanan ey: natalee holloway (americano) y the child muher americano cu his child owing to maltrata y djey wanted owing to rape (viola) in his own cas! the father, one panameño, owing to send all the recaudonan for my, incluyendo raportnan clinico of maltrato fisico, y my not owing to publica all for motibo of discrecion y consideracion for one person cu not merece. kico nel his gobierno owing to haci in the caso of natalee? sconde cabez as one avestruz for not see the berdad of thing was pasando; try core cu jan y karin because they not was pertenece at the ja-knikkernan politico of his gobierno; place the interest for her coin of turism americano on the value of one vida humano; strike all clase of buelta for throw the culpa on the family of the desaparecido, instead of bay all-out contra the three sospechosonan cu is the responsablenan of the bad name cu aruba owing to achieve in exterior, y merecidamente because esnan at power not owing to arise one finger for defende the victimanan, but owing to cucuya behind cortina for people believe cu is the family is responsable for her imagen negative cu aruba owing to achieve, y not the three responsablenan for one desaparicion cu owing to ocuri while cu the child was cu they! the is one americano! djey his declaracionnan anti-americano of one estupidez increible; y the caso of his son cu wanted owing to viola the child muher americano in his same cas! now have one americano deteni because the will owing to saca one arm contra one person cu owing to ataca his casa, djey owing to comete destruccion contra his property. one gobierno cu owing to caracteriza his self because; uno anti-americano cu hechonan concreto till in his liver!

[msmarple]

Leslie - Just you and me I guess.

I've been meaning to thank you for reminding us that we only have 252 days 'til Christmas (as of today).

 

[Dayhiker]

For what it's worth - here's the online Pap translation. (It was a long editorial and I may have slightly more or less of it here than Leslie posted.)

Jossy definitely on a tear. Talking about Nelson Oduber and his government being anti-American, demonstrated by victimization of Natalee Holloway and now Michael Saladin too. (As far as I know, he is still being detained, although physically in the hospital per the last story I tried to read.)

Diario 04/16/2007 - Jossy Mansur editorial (excerpt):

day cu i have tell cu the gobierno of nel oduber is anti-americano also, i have come cu the pruebanan for demostre, but i have let one near others cu is much painful for nel, sinembargo, already cu past owing to go back lose cabez as of custumbra, without can place control on his language of shishi, behold more of the pruebanan ey: natalee holloway (americano) y the child muher americano cu his child owing to maltrata y djey wanted owing to rape (viola) in his own cas! the father, one panameño, owing to send all the recaudonan for my, incluyendo raportnan clinico of maltrato fisico, y my not owing to publica all for motibo of discrecion y consideracion for one person cu not merece. kico nel his gobierno owing to haci in the caso of natalee? sconde cabez as one avestruz for not see the berdad of thing was pasando; try core cu jan y karin because they not was pertenece at the ja-knikkernan politico of his gobierno; place the interest for her coin of turism americano on the value of one vida humano; strike all clase of buelta for throw the culpa on the family of the desaparecido, instead of bay all-out contra the three sospechosonan cu is the responsablenan of the bad name cu aruba owing to achieve in exterior, y merecidamente because esnan at power not owing to arise one finger for defende the victimanan, but owing to cucuya behind cortina for people believe cu is the family is responsable for her imagen negative cu aruba owing to achieve, y not the three responsablenan for one desaparicion cu owing to ocuri while cu the child was cu they! the is one americano! djey his declaracionnan anti-americano of one estupidez increible; y the caso of his son cu wanted owing to viola the child muher americano in his same cas! now have one americano deteni because the will owing to saca one arm contra one person cu owing to ataca his casa, djey owing to comete destruccion contra his property. one gobierno cu owing to caracteriza his self because; uno anti-americano cu hechonan concreto till in his liver!

Thanks Ms Marple. The English translation will be interesting, this part jumped out:

 place the interest for her coin of turism americano on the value of one vida humano; strike all clase of buelta for throw the culpa on the family of the desaparecido, instead of bay all-out contra the three sospechosonan cu is the responsablenan of the bad name cu aruba owing to achieve


It looks like he saying they placed the value of tourism dollars over a human life and that they should throw the blame on the perpertrators/suspects who have given Aruba a bad name.

[klaasend]

Diario editorial 4/16/07 translated by Jossy from Easy's blog (thanks Easy):

A TRAITOR AND HIS ANTI-ARUBAN GOVERNMENT (2)

The truth can hurt when it’s exposed without circumlocution! What could have led the mediocrity of the MEP party to lose their heads in such an ugly manner? Could it be the bribery of 1 million guilders? Is that what made them try to look for any distraction from this most shameful anti-Aruban act known in our history? Is it because Nel Oduber is searching for a way out of the atom-bomb that the Namdar offer exploded in his face, and that has converted Neldar into another victim that “can be bought and sold?"

Gentlemen, go ahead with your attempts to distract the attention from the offered bribery of the most shameful 1 million guilders that exists, and the delivery afterwards of our port to the same foreign group that put that money under the table! Is this or isn’t this the greatest demonstration of anti-Arubanism known until now? Must the Aruban continue on the path of the cross to get his rights, while the foreigners with money can just wave a few bills in their faces to at once get the permits or properties they want? Just consider all the cases that the most anti-Aruban government has lost in court so far! Two great doctors, real Arubans, Lacle and Posner, had to take the path of the cross to get their rights, and even so, are being politically persecuted until this day! Is this, or isn’t this one more demonstration of the most pathetic anti-Arubanism that exists?

Then Henny Eman and Otmar Oduber, another two Arubans with a long history of political persecution coming from the same Government and members of the MEP party, hungry for vengeance, moved by hate and rancor. They too had to suffer years of political persecution, to finally obtain in Court for the truth to conquer the lies, the slanders, the ridiculous accusations, thrown at them by a Government that has characterized itself as mediocre and totally anti-Aruban!

And we could go on and on to fill this whole paper with the long list of politically persecuted Arubans, just because they think different and want the good of their people and their island. To expose the truth in a newspaper, on the radio or on television, has become for the anti-Arubans in power the cause for unbelievable hysterics, a drowning in a glass of water, and an attempt to hide the bribery offer of 1 million guilders with shouts coming from the handful of mediocrities at their disposal. Mister Neldar can turn and turn, trying to find any motive that can help him extract himself, but the 1 million guilders hang over his head like the accusation of a judge.

The day I said that Nel Oduber’s government is anti American too, I came with the proofs to demonstrate it, but I left out a couple very painful for Nel, but since he again lost control over his tongue, here are more proofs: Natalee Holloway (American) and the American girl that his son mistreated and then wanted to rape in his own home! The father, a man from Panama, sent me all the proofs, including clinical reports of physical abuse, and I didn’t publish them for discretion’s sake and for consideration of a person that does not deserve it.

What did Nel’s government do in the case of Natalee? Hide their heads in a hole like ostriches so as not to see the truth of what was happening, try to fire Jan and Karin because they did not belong to the group of political yes-men of his government; put the interest for American tourism money above the value of a human life; try to throw the blame on the family of the girl that disappeared, instead of going all-out against the three suspects who are responsible for the bad name Aruba got in other countries, and rightly so because those in power did not lift one finger to defend the victim, but went all out behind the curtain to make the family responsible for the negative image Aruba got, and not against the three suspects in whose company the girl disappeared. She too is an American!

Then his unbelievably stupid anti-American statements; the case of his own son who tried to rape an American girl in his own home! Now there is another American arrested because he pulled a gun against a person that attacked his wife, then committed destruction against her property. A government that has characterized itself as an Anti-American one with unquestionable concrete proofs.

But, the worst is that this government is principally an Anti-Aruban one that obliges the sons of this island that do not belong to the privileged few of the MEP, to go through a truly torturous process to find their rights! For the foreigner with money? Everything! All they have to do is…let everyone complete the sentence for himself or herself, considering the bribery offer. And for the poor foreigners who come to Aruba with his or her work specialization, another road of the cross! A merciless persecution; an extraction of the little money that they have or can borrow, to obtain the papers for a permit that often never comes! Another inhuman persecution of those that did not come to commit acts against the law (like those that many of the delinquents around Nel did commit, some with judge’s sentences hanging over their heads!), but who came to Aruba to look for a better life and to contribute to our labor market with their talents and know-hows!

Nel Oduber has become a synonym for political persecution, for implacable hatred, for “can be bought and sold”, of 1 million guilders offered to a traitor willing to deliver our port in the hands of foreigners! This is a handing-over of the worst kind, of a dictatorial attitude never before seen on an island that always held its impeccable democracy in front of the eyes of the world for it to understand that in Aruba the empire of the Law is in command. We can no longer say that! Now our island has become, in the hands of Nel Oduber and his anti Aruban and anti-American government, an island of the abuse of power, of nepotism, of favors to the small group of privileged MEP fanatics, and political persecution against the rest of the population that do not subject themselves to his amens!

[Mere]

Good morning friends.....

MsMarple....I read lots of pages from overnight waiting to hear about
the waldorf salad...did I miss it....?  

Leslie....thanks for the morning papers.

Thanks to easy for the dario editorial.  Jossy is a strong individual...not
many in Aruba could take on the government.

[Nut44x4]

Leslie - Just you and me I guess.

I've been meaning to thank you for reminding us that we only have 252 days 'til Christmas (as of today).

 

Well, alrighty then...I have never (well, almost never, lol) had a murderous thought in my life   , HOWEVER....msmarple is now on my CHITLIST!! LOL!! ACKkkkkkkkkkkkkk @ Christmas!!! I just want SPRING!!

[msmarple]

The day I said that Nel Oduber’s government is anti American too, I came with the proofs to demonstrate it, but I left out a couple very painful for Nel, but since he again lost control over his tongue, here are more proofs: Natalee Holloway (American) and the American girl that his son mistreated and then wanted to rape in his own home! The father, a man from Panama, sent me all the proofs, including clinical reports of physical abuse, and I didn’t publish them for discretion’s sake and for consideration of a person that does not deserve it.

What did Nel’s government do in the case of Natalee? Hide their heads in a hole like ostriches so as not to see the truth of what was happening, try to fire Jan and Karin because they did not belong to the group of political yes-men of his government; put the interest for American tourism money above the value of a human life; try to throw the blame on the family of the girl that disappeared, instead of going all-out against the three suspects who are responsible for the bad name Aruba got in other countries, and rightly so because those in power did not lift one finger to defend the victim, but went all out behind the curtain to make the family responsible for the negative image Aruba got, and not against the three suspects in whose company the girl disappeared. She too is an American!

Then his unbelievably stupid anti-American statements; the case of his own son who tried to rape an American girl in his own home! Now there is another American arrested because he pulled a gun against a person that attacked his wife, then committed destruction against her property. A government that has characterized itself as an Anti-American one with unquestionable concrete proofs.

Wow! Oduber's son tried to rape an American girl - in their HOME?

Wow! Tried to fire JVDStratten and KJ?

And Double Wow, yes indeed, all blame on Natalee and her family for the current predicament.

Well done, Jossy.

To help Jossy while MEP is boycotting Diario - see my sig line.

Thanks klaas for posting that. I was about to head for a Spanish tranlator.

[Dayhiker]

Thanks for posting that Klaas!

So Nelson Oduber's son raped a tourist and they covered it up.

If he'll do that he'll certainly do it for someone who has the goods on his corrupt government. Someone like Paulus Van Der Sloot.

Jossy is right, there have always been anti-American overtones to this.

Nelson has a friend. Chavez be his name. This bribery case would be an excellent opportunity to take Oduber down.

[msmarple]

Leslie - Just you and me I guess.

I've been meaning to thank you for reminding us that we only have 252 days 'til Christmas (as of today).

 

Well, alrighty then...I have never (well, almost never, lol) had a murderous thought in my life   , HOWEVER....msmarple is now on my CHITLIST!! LOL!! ACKkkkkkkkkkkkkk @ Christmas!!! I just want SPRING!!

Leslie is still using her Christmas avatar ... just a subtle hint!  

[crazybabyborg]

Wow, Klaas! Now THAT'S a post worth reading! Thank you for bringing it!
His son wanted to rape an American girl in his home, huh?
   

[msmarple]

Good morning friends.....

MsMarple....I read lots of pages from overnight waiting to hear about
the waldorf salad...did I miss it....?  

Leslie....thanks for the morning papers.

Thanks to easy for the dario editorial.  Jossy is a strong individual...not
many in Aruba could take on the government.

MeMere - Didn't really get much of an answer. I think Tyler said that something about a Waldorf salad came from some kids at Joran's school - but I may have read it wrong.

Just trying to figure out when someone supposedly tried to feed this to Natalee??? Is that what is supposed to have happened?

Not really important; just surprised that I don't remember reading a thing about Waldorf Salad from back in those days ...

[crazybabyborg]

Leslie - Just you and me I guess.

I've been meaning to thank you for reminding us that we only have 252 days 'til Christmas (as of today).

 

Well, alrighty then...I have never (well, almost never, lol) had a murderous thought in my life   , HOWEVER....msmarple is now on my CHITLIST!! LOL!! ACKkkkkkkkkkkkkk @ Christmas!!! I just want SPRING!!

Leslie is still using her Christmas avatar ... just a subtle hint!  

Leslie, I'll be happy to find you something if you want a change of clothes?
Anything in particular?

[msmarple]

Taking the girls home ... may be the norm.

Now, about that search warrant that got watered down on the VDS doorstep  ...

[msmarple]

I'm sorry - I have to emphasize it - that is a riveting statement.

Tried to rape an American girl at home.

(Note it doesn't say "rape" - it apparently was an attempt ... let's be careful here.)

[crazybabyborg]

O/T

There's been a shooting at Virginia Tech. 1 dead, 1 wounded. Gunman still on the loose.

[msmarple]

What do we know about Oduber's son? Age? Live with Dad or on his own?