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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #860 8/28/11 - 10/16/11  (Read 99211 times)
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #560 on: September 24, 2011, 12:10:56 PM »

Short video clip of the court proceeding

http://video-embed.al.com/services/player/bcpid619329486001?bctid=1178338807001

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20110923/NEWS03/110923029/Judge-weighs-bid-declare-missing-Natalee-Holloway-dead?odyssey=tab



Dave Holloway, father of missing Mountain Brook woman Natalee Holloway, sit in Jefferson County probate court Friday, Sept. 23, 2011 in Birmingham, Ala. Holloway asked to have his daughter legally declared dead, six years after the Alabama teen disappeared on a high school graduation trip to Aruba. / AP Photo/The Birmingham News

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/09/jefferson_county_judge_rules_r.html



Dave Holloway is embraced by one of his attorneys, Karen Hennecy after being in court for a hearing on a petition for presumption of death for his daughter, missing Mountain Brook teenager Natalee Holloway in Jefferson County probate court Fri., Sept. 23, 2011 in Birmingham, Ala. (The Birmingham News/Bernard Troncale).

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/09/jefferson_county_judge_rules_r.html





http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/national/judge-moves-toward-declaring-natalee-holloway-dead/article_68ca6017-0ea4-5e03-a1d8-a65bfcdb2758.html



BERNARD TRONCALE
Dave Holloway, father of missing Mountain Brook woman Natalee Holloway, sit in Jefferson County probate court Friday, Sept. 23, 2011 in Birmingham, Ala. Holloway asked to have his daughter legally declared dead, six years after the Alabama teen disappeared on a high school graduation trip to Aruba. (AP Photo/The Birmingham News, Bernard Troncale)

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #561 on: September 24, 2011, 12:22:26 PM »


   Looks like he's sleeping, but he's dead.  Not sure if they're saying he was electrocuted or not...

http://www.awe24.com/20110924/8528/Mainta_tempran_a_descubri_un_curpa_di_homber_cu_no_tabata_senal_di_bida

morning early owing to descubri one curpa of man cu not was sign of life

5 hora happen come across, 24 of september 2011 07:10

saturday morning owing to enter informe of cu have one person behind arc iris sleep y do not give sign of life, at once owing to dirigi one patrol at the sitio. at arrival of the patrol owing to come come across cu a of edad sleep just bao of the wardrobe of fusenan of himalaya. he not was actuate y owing to pidiun ambulance at the sitio. at arrival of the ambulance they owing to the notice cu the do not give sign of life. at once owing to avisa all autoridad compentente. for 8 or y 5 minuut dr. mungra owing to constata dead of the ciudadano. apparently is deal of father of one of the doonan of the business himalaya. some time behind the business here owing to burn in construcion one sir owing to fayese in the lugar ey door of one shock of coriente, coincidencia cu time ey according witness they eybanda owing to count ; cu the defunto also owing to juda verf the luga y awo the is bay die just near of the cashi of coriente
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
MuffyBee
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« Reply #562 on: September 24, 2011, 12:24:32 PM »

I'm sure Beth is making sure Matt is getting thru college.  I'm sure Matt doesn't need $2000, not like it pays for much college.    There has to be more to this.

Exactly.

His lawyer is charging more than $2,000.   The whole thing makes him look really bad. IMO

Yep, it looks bad. When I commented in my  post http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=10724.msg1471208#msg1471208   that it was the first time I saw a reason given for Dave wanting to declare Natalee dead it was just that:  a reason given.   I hadn't seen any reason given before.  But man, was I surprised the college fund was only $2,000.00.  That doesn't go very far in regard to college expenses.    
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #563 on: September 24, 2011, 12:27:14 PM »



September 23, 2011 11:51 AM
Judge rejects delay in Natalee Holloway case


(AP)  BIRMINGHAM, Ala. A judge has refused to delay a court hearing on a request by Natalee Holloway's father to have her declared dead six years after she disappeared in Aruba.

An attorney for Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway, sought the delay Friday because she could not attend the hearing. She was giving a speech in California. But probate Judge Alan King said she had more than two weeks' notice about the hearing.

<snipped>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/23/ap/business/main20110733.shtml




A Silver of Hope

Natalee Holloway's Mom Still Hoping She Is Alive
Sept. 23, 2011


<snipped>

The mother of missing teen Natalee Holloway is clinging to a faint hope that her daughter, who disappeared in 2005, is still alive and is fighting a petition by her ex-husband to have Natalee legally presumed dead.

"Even if it's a one in a million chance, she wants to always have that sliver of hope," said Beth Holloway's attorney, John Q. Kelly, after a court hearing today over the contentious petition.

"She doesn't want to be in the position where Natalee could show up one day and ask, 'Why did you give up on me?'" he said.


Kelly and the girl's mother, Beth Holloway, did not attend a court hearing today on a petition brought by Natalee's father Dave Holloway to have her declared dead. Beth Holloway and Kelly had previously scheduled travel plans.

"We had made an application for an adjournment so we could have Beth there to testify and to prepare proper opposition for evidence for the court hearing," Kelly said.

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/natalee-holloways-mom-clings-hope-daughter-alive/story?id=14591709


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #564 on: September 24, 2011, 12:38:07 PM »

I'm sure Beth is making sure Matt is getting thru college.  I'm sure Matt doesn't need $2000, not like it pays for much college.    There has to be more to this.

Exactly.

His lawyer is charging more than $2,000.   The whole thing makes him look really bad. IMO

Yep, it looks bad. When I commented in my  post http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=10724.msg1471208#msg1471208   that it was the first time I saw a reason given for Dave wanting to declare Natalee dead it was just that:  a reason given.   I hadn't seen any reason given before.  But man, was I surprised the college fund was only $2,000.00.  That doesn't go very far in regard to college expenses.    

As Magnolia implied ... legal fees encompassing the petition would amount to more than $2,000.  Considering Dave's pledge to never give up on Natalee ... considering Aruba has yet to return Natalee's remains to her family ...considering Beth's opposition ... inquiring minds want to know why Dave is persuing this action.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
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« Reply #565 on: September 24, 2011, 12:51:52 PM »

It depends what state you are in but in California it is seven years. If someone has been missing for more than 7 years they are declared legally deceased. Just saying
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« Reply #566 on: September 24, 2011, 12:59:27 PM »

Aruba: The Tragic Untold Story of Natalee Holloway and Corruption in Paradise
By Dave Holloway


Page 203:  I am confident if we all work together, we will find an answer to what happened to my daughter.

We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, andwe will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.

God be with you my Natalee!
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
MuffyBee
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« Reply #567 on: September 24, 2011, 01:09:57 PM »

http://www.lawyers.com/our-blog/archives/591-Missing-or-Legally-Dead.html  Copy this link to share with your friends: http://bit.ly/ek1Tm1

Missing or Legally Dead?
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 by Jennifer King - Lawyers.com

 ::snipping2::
What Does a Death in Absentia Ruling Involve?

Death in absentia laws vary from state to state. Typically, at least one of the following criteria must be satisfied before someone is presumed to be dead:

    The person has been missing for four to seven years, those close to the person have had no contact with him and a diligent search has failed to find him, or
    The person was exposed to imminent peril (such as an airplane crash or the collapse of the World Trade Center) and did not return

If a missing person falls into either of these categories, a petition can be filed asking the state to declare him legally dead. The state usually requires a public notice to be filed, officially notifying the missing person of the death in absentia petition.

Courts do not always give rubber-stamp approval to death in absentia petitions, particularly if there is reason to believe the person might still be alive. For example, someone who had financial problems, was in a bad marriage or was wanted by the police may have simply fled and be in hiding.

If the court does declare a missing person to be legally dead, his estate will be distributed according to his will or state intestacy laws. The state may, however, require heirs to return the bequests they received if the person later turns up alive.
 ::snipping2::
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« Reply #568 on: September 24, 2011, 01:19:59 PM »

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS WHY DAVE IS PURSUING DECLARING NATALEE DEAD, BUT IT SEEMED LIKE A POSSIBILITY



"In this particular case with van der Sloot, if the Arubans won't do anything with this guy, the U.S. could conceivably -- once he is released in Peru -- extradite him back to the states and prosecute him for Holloway's murder," says Michael Griffith, senior partner at the International Legal Defense Counsel.


<snip>
According to Griffith, the passive personality principle of international law allows a country to prosecute someone who has killed or injured an American citizen in a foreign country. In essence, jurisdiction is based on the nationality of the victim and not the location of the crime.


<snip>
"The U.S. has secondary jurisdiction over van der Sloot because of the extortion case," Griffith explains. "Because of that, and statements he allegedly made on video, the U.S. now has reasonable cause to believe, I would ascertain, that he's responsible for the Holloway killing."

<snip>
"The Holloways need to at least find their daughter," Griffith said. "They don't want to wait 10 years till he gets parole and is extradited.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/06/14/expert-us-could-charge-van-der-sloot-with-holloways-murder/



MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY:   But there is some -- there is some evidence though. This testimony of the Kalpoe brothers, Deepak and other, whey were with him. And they`re ready to turn state`s evidence.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/23/joy.01.html

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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #569 on: September 24, 2011, 01:30:27 PM »

Just my thinking, which doesn't amount to much but I don't think Natalee would have to be declared dead in the U. S. courts for prosecution to proceed for her murder.

It just seems unreasonable to me that a financial burden like that (attorney's etc) would be required of any victim's family to allow prosecution.

Haven't researched it, just my opinion.
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
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« Reply #570 on: September 24, 2011, 01:33:25 PM »


Thank u Texasmom.



Attorney states Dave still pays for Natalee to be on his health insurance plan.
Rates, generally are the same for all the children under family plans.

Attorney states he wants to transfer $2000.00 to college fund.

$2000.00 dollars is not even going to pay for a year of tuition & books & dorm.

Nor will it pay for the legal fees Dave is incurring.




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« Reply #571 on: September 24, 2011, 01:37:40 PM »

Just my thinking, which doesn't amount to much but I don't think Natalee would have to be declared dead in the U. S. courts for prosecution to proceed for her murder.

It just seems unreasonable to me that a financial burden like that (attorney's etc) would be required of any victim's family to allow prosecution.

Haven't researched it, just my opinion.

I'm trying to figure it out too - doesn't make any sense the direction Dave is taking, however in order to charge someone with murder we'd need to have some indication the person is dead. Cuz if you were on a jury, wouldn't you be sitting there thinking she could be alive if the defense team came up with Joran's sold her into sex trafficking lie and pulls out his taped conversation with his dad as proof.  It might be a legal strategy maybe????

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« Reply #572 on: September 24, 2011, 01:40:52 PM »


Dave doesn't look good at all.

Compared to how Beth looks............since both carry an enormous burden with the loss of their daughter........

Faith, hope & love have served each differently it seems.

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« Reply #573 on: September 24, 2011, 01:41:58 PM »

Just my thinking, which doesn't amount to much but I don't think Natalee would have to be declared dead in the U. S. courts for prosecution to proceed for her murder.

It just seems unreasonable to me that a financial burden like that (attorney's etc) would be required of any victim's family to allow prosecution.

Haven't researched it, just my opinion.

I'm trying to figure it out too - doesn't make any sense the direction Dave is taking, however in order to charge someone with murder we'd need to have some indication the person is dead. Cuz if you were on a jury, wouldn't you be sitting there thinking she could be alive if the defense team came up with Joran's sold her into sex trafficking lie and pulls out his taped conversation with his dad as proof.  It might be a legal strategy maybe????

or it might be whom they listen too if ya get my meaning.

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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #574 on: September 24, 2011, 01:52:49 PM »

I can't seem to make that quote stack work... 

You're welcome Kermit!

I can say from personal experience that $2000 is a drop in the bucket when it comes to college costs.  It would only cover almost half of my youngest son's tuition for this semester alone.  And that's just tuition...no books or other expenses included.
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
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« Reply #575 on: September 24, 2011, 02:02:51 PM »

Just my thinking, which doesn't amount to much but I don't think Natalee would have to be declared dead in the U. S. courts for prosecution to proceed for her murder.

It just seems unreasonable to me that a financial burden like that (attorney's etc) would be required of any victim's family to allow prosecution.

Haven't researched it, just my opinion.

I'm trying to figure it out too - doesn't make any sense the direction Dave is taking, however in order to charge someone with murder we'd need to have some indication the person is dead. Cuz if you were on a jury, wouldn't you be sitting there thinking she could be alive if the defense team came up with Joran's sold her into sex trafficking lie and pulls out his taped conversation with his dad as proof.  It might be a legal strategy maybe????


BINGO!!

Kermit ... you should be an attorney!  If the 30 day delay requested by Beth had not been denied by the judge ... Joran's "Selling of Natalee" confession would have afforded the a perfect challenge to the petitioning of the court to have Natalee declared deceased.

Is it possible that the Judge's denial could be appealed?  Think about it.  Natalee's mother was provided only two weeks notice regarding yesterday's hearing.  Considering the petition was filed by Dave in June ... the playing  field was far from even.  Dave had the advantage in regards to preparation time.

Janet

++++++

Natalee Holloway's Mom Still Hoping She Is Alive
Sept. 23, 2011


<snipped>

Kelly and the girl's mother, Beth Holloway, did not attend a court hearing today on a petition brought by Natalee's father Dave Holloway to have her declared dead. Beth Holloway and Kelly had previously scheduled travel plans.

"We had made an application for an adjournment so we could have Beth there to testify and to prepare proper opposition for evidence for the court hearing," Kelly said.

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/natalee-holloways-mom-clings-hope-daughter-alive/story?id=14591709


September 23, 2011 11:51 AM
Judge rejects delay in Natalee Holloway case


(AP)  BIRMINGHAM, Ala. A judge has refused to delay a court hearing on a request by Natalee Holloway's father to have her declared dead six years after she disappeared in Aruba.

An attorney for Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway, sought the delay Friday because she could not attend the hearing. She was giving a speech in California. But probate Judge Alan King said she had more than two weeks' notice about the hearing.

<snipped>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/23/ap/business/main20110733.shtml
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #576 on: September 24, 2011, 02:06:41 PM »

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Aruba-wants-nothing-to-do-with-van-der-Sloot-film/Nw-slP9glk6TQ-zYs8xm8Q.cspx


Aruba wants nothing to do with van der Sloot film
   
Print Story Published: 11:28 am Share Updated: 11:45 am    Birmingham, Ala (WIAT) 

Don't expect any one in Aruba to line up to see "Me and Mr. Jones on Natalee Island", Dutch film maker Paul Ruven's recently released fictional account of the Natalee Holloway disappearance.

Cinema Operator Cor Dammers told Radio Netherlands Worldwide "Aruba is not waiting that this story is resurrected again. There's enough damage. Moreover, we show mainly Hollywood blockbusters, and that this film is not. "

Aruban law enforcement and the local tourist industry have been dealing with the negative publicity for more than six years.  And now they're dealing with the disappearance of another American blonde, Robyn Gardner.  The attorney for the suspect in that case, Gary Giordano, recently said his client is being treated unfairly because of a desire to avoid criticism like that that followed Natalee's disappearance and the case against Joran van der Sloot.
 ::snipping2::
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
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« Reply #577 on: September 24, 2011, 02:23:08 PM »

I can't seem to make that quote stack work... 

You're welcome Kermit!

I can say from personal experience that $2000 is a drop in the bucket when it comes to college costs.  It would only cover almost half of my youngest son's tuition for this semester alone.  And that's just tuition...no books or other expenses included.

tuition costs for me were over $140,000.00 grand.

Maybe Dave doesn't know what it costs for college????? I don't know. Maybe it's a junior college????
But still, it's just not adding up.

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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #578 on: September 24, 2011, 02:29:17 PM »

I can't seem to make that quote stack work... 

You're welcome Kermit!

I can say from personal experience that $2000 is a drop in the bucket when it comes to college costs.  It would only cover almost half of my youngest son's tuition for this semester alone.  And that's just tuition...no books or other expenses included.

tuition costs for me were over $140,000.00 grand.

Maybe Dave doesn't know what it costs for college????? I don't know. Maybe it's a junior college????
But still, it's just not adding up.



I agree.   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
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« Reply #579 on: September 24, 2011, 02:30:54 PM »

BINGO!!

Kermit ... you should be an attorney!  If the 30 day delay requested by Beth had not been denied by the judge ... Joran's "Selling of Natalee" confession would have afforded the a perfect challenge to the petitioning of the court to have Natalee declared deceased.

Is it possible that the Judge's denial could be appealed?  Think about it.  Natalee's mother was provided only two weeks notice regarding yesterday's hearing.  Considering the petition was filed by Dave in June ... the playing  field was far from even.  Dave had the advantage in regards to preparation time.

Janet

++++++
Thank you. Other people have made that same statement to me about being an attorney.
Appeal would be my thinking as it is an unfair & biased court that has taken place. 

When it comes to courts/judges it is usually what is reasonable and in this case, as you pointed out, it's unfair & unreasonable to not give the mother time to prepare a defense as to why the declaration should move forward.

Then add into the mix John Q. Kelly (Anna's dream man)  and you'll have a WINNER!!!!

It's just going to cost $$$$$ once again for Beth to defend her daughter.

Such a shame when all Dave had to do was pick up the dern phone.
But psychologically speaking from the photo, Dave is holding in a lot of emotion. That is the problem. Plus, in my opinion, he always listened and trusted the wrong people. And that's all I'm going to elaborate on that subject.

It is what it is eh.





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