Lively Case Discussion #482 6/28 - 6/29/2006

[Anna]

SunnyinTX, money talks, doesn't it?  It is sad that some people's moral compass is so off that they can be bought for a paltry price.  There were many.

Wreck, you knew some of them also, but you may not have known it.  My DH used to post with you and liked you.   I will tell you one day who it was.  You liked him too.

Yes, a gentleman and a scholar if ever there was one, your DH.  
Dan's flip was one of the more shocking ones for me for I really do not think that was his plan in the beginning.  

Wreck, we did learn lots the hard way for like you, I now can often spot them because few have the real patience to establish themselves before showing their true colors.  

[AZLady]

However, seeing these pro-Joran websites go down now and the deafening silence of Taco and Steve Cohen gives me more hope and positive vibes about this case than I have felt in a long time!!      

[Tylergal]

I still believe most people are who they say they are.  Those that have surprised me, I just ignore.  I assume that there are posters that have an incentive to post negatively on the case and I think most of those have seen that it didn't work.. Those that still post negatively are just mean and hateful people and the ones that had incentive are gone, it didn't work.  When someone says "let me be honest with you"  this gives me a red flag because I think why do you need to say that.. I'm kinda the last person to figure out someone motives but when I do, I just move on..

Hi, Terry, my squirrely little friend.  Thank you for reading my rose story.  I would be happy to serve you lemonade or roses anyday.  You just let me know and we will do battle with the skeeters and snakes, and you will have your very own personal crystal glass of Lemonade.

It is unfortunate that there are mean people in the world, but you are not one of them, my friend, and I am so happy to know that and to know you.

[Peaches]

I am exactly who I say I am.  Always have been.  Always will be.

[Tylergal]

I am exactly who I say I am.  Always have been.  Always will be.

A wonderful lady with a super attitude and a big heart, smells like peaches to me.

[AZLady]

SunnyinTX, money talks, doesn't it?  It is sad that some people's moral compass is so off that they can be bought for a paltry price.  There were many.

Wreck, you knew some of them also, but you may not have known it.  My DH used to post with you and liked you.   I will tell you one day who it was.  You liked him too.

Yes, a gentleman and a scholar if ever there was one, your DH.  
Dan's flip was one of the more shocking ones for me for I really do not think that was his plan in the beginning.  

Wreck, we did learn lots the hard way for like you, I now can often spot them because few have the real patience to establish themselves before showing their true colors.  

Anna, if these people are paid, when they stop being useful, then the paychecks stop.  So, they really don't have any more time than their employer gives them, usually not enough time before showing their true colors.  Time and patience always shows the truth.  We have all three here.

[SunnyinTX]

SunnyinTX, money talks, doesn't it?  It is sad that some people's moral compass is so off that they can be bought for a paltry price.  There were many.

Wreck, you knew some of them also, but you may not have known it.  My DH used to post with you and liked you.   I will tell you one day who it was.  You liked him too.

I know Tyler and it really is sad......we many never be rich...but I know when I go to sleep at night my mind, heart and soul are just fine.  Just like yours and many other who have been here from the beginning and will be here til whenever.....

[Shizaru]

The weight/cable is the best evidence both for and against Carlos' story. For, because it was found where he said it would be.  Against, because it's not plausable that it could have gotten there the way he apparently describes.  First, Joran just happens to have weight/cable in the car, then he is able to swim weighted down body far enough out that when it eventually surfaces it doesn't drift back to shore?

I am very skeptical of Carlos' story- altho I think something similar to what he describes may very well be what happened, except on the Marriott beach not Arashi beach.

However, say that Carlos is telling the truth.

Following two scenarios are both consistent with Carlos' story, phone/computer records, and polis van conersation (in which Joran made comments to 2K indicating he either thought, or was pretending to think, that they harmed Natalee, meaning 2K must have known it would have been possible for them to find her after Joran left her)

a) 2K drop Joran and Natalee off at Joran's apt, Joran puts Natalee in parents' car, drives her to Arashi beach, rapes, murders and disposes of her.  Joran calls Deepak at 2:30 and lies that he is on the Marriott beach with Natalee and will leave her there. TMs Deepak about 40 minutes later to say he has returned.    

b) Same as above except they drive from CnCs to 2K home, then Joran borrows Deepak's car and takes Natalee to Arashi beach.  After 2:30 call, Joran returns car and Satish gives him ride back home.

Problem: In either scenario, why would they all originally say they went to the lighthouse?

[Peaches]

However, seeing these pro-Joran websites go down now and the deafening silence of Taco and Steve Cohen gives me more hope and positive vibes about this case than I have felt in a long time!!      

Yeah, what she said!

[SunnyinTX]

thanks for the link.....I have always believed this...but became positive when I saw some posters on Natalee related boards!! I can personally think of one person who I really liked and admired......who suddenly flipped over....I was shocked....but soon came to understand that many people can be bought for $$$ or other things to post in a certain way.....so sad.

Sunny, I was duped by these people, also, and took it personally at first.  Now I realize it's just their business...but what a business.  Totally unethical and slimey, to me, but perfectly legal, I suppose.  Some websites that have been pro-Joran (and anti-Holloway) have gone down recently, and I wonder if the finances have something to to with this.  In other words, were they paid to put up these sites and promote these ideas?  Now that the people who back them no longer see their benefit, they are off-line.  Very bad business, in my opinion.

AZ I think we all take it personally especially when we are so passionate about Natalee and the terrible injustices Aruba has forced on this family.....and then when someone dupes you....it is personal.  I come from the old school .....goodness will prevail in the end and those that have sold their souls/minds/hearts to the dark side will suffer in one way or another.

[Peaches]

I am exactly who I say I am.  Always have been.  Always will be.

A wonderful lady with a super attitude and a big heart, smells like peaches to me.

Thank you so much.  I appreciate and love you all.

Time to commute!

BBL

[darleenofalabama]

Nonesasha, Hello!!!  And, don't you worry, you can wear that tiara with a clear conscience---I didn't say anything about who might deserve it most, I said who wants it most!! And, anyway, Klaasend knows I hate brownosing.  Oh, and Klaasend, you do an OK job; you know where the tiaras are kept if you want one (just let her wear the biggest one ; you don't want to have to bother editing any Southern cussing).

Sunny, I am so sorry to hear about your arm.  The good news is that it has a lot of time to heal before we need to get started organizing this house.   Why don't you go ahead and look into flights out here for this fall?!

I can't believe how much I'll miss ya'll.  Best wishes to each one of you.  You know, that line that Shakespeare wrote especially in case I ever needed it, the one about parting, is so true.  And, why, oh why, I wonder if my husband wanted to take me on some spectacular trip, didn't he choose the Orient---that's where all the best pearls are!!!!  

See ya'll this fall (and if ya'll start planning my return party, ya'll might want to remember my fondness for pearls; they also make a nice hostess gift, Sunny--even though I've invited you to help me organize this place, which might be considered work and a favor to me, I will technically be hostessing, and I know that you understand that line of thinking.   )

[AZLady]

The weight/cable is the best evidence both for and against Carlos' story. For, because it was found where he said it would be.  Against, because it's not plausable that it could have gotten there the way he apparently describes.  First, Joran just happens to have weight/cable in the car, then he is able to swim weighted down body far enough out that when it eventually surfaces it doesn't drift back to shore?

I am very skeptical of Carlos' story- altho I think something similar to what he describes may very well be what happened, except on the Marriott beach not Arashi beach.

However, say that Carlos is telling the truth.

Following two scenarios are both consistent with Carlos' story, phone/computer records, and polis van conersation (in which Joran made comments to 2K indicating he either thought, or was pretending to think, that they harmed Natalee, meaning 2K must have known it would have been possible for them to find her after Joran left her)

a) 2K drop Joran and Natalee off at Joran's apt, Joran puts Natalee in parents' car, drives her to Arashi beach, rapes, murders and disposes of her.  Joran calls Deepak at 2:30 and lies that he is on the Marriott beach with Natalee and will leave her there. TMs Deepak about 40 minutes later to say he has returned.    

b) Same as above except they drive from CnCs to 2K home, then Joran borrows Deepak's car and takes Natalee to Arashi beach.  After 2:30 call, Joran returns car and Satish gives him ride back home.

Problem: In either scenario, why would they all originally say they went to the lighthouse?

Shizaru,  I don't understand the cable/weight thing.  Are they saying the cable used to tied her body to something, like the coral reef or a rock, out in the ocean so it wouldn't drift back?  Or is the cable the weight itself?  If so, and the Columbian saw Joran take the body out with the cable on it, then how could he swim out a body with a weight attached sufficient to weight it down?  Doesn't seem possible to me.  

You say that I think something similar to what he describes may very well be what happened, except on the Marriott beach not Arashi beach.  Why?  What is the difference in the locations that make you think it occurred at one and not the other?

[SunnyinTX]

I still believe most people are who they say they are.  Those that have surprised me, I just ignore.  I assume that there are posters that have an incentive to post negatively on the case and I think most of those have seen that it didn't work.. Those that still post negatively are just mean and hateful people and the ones that had incentive are gone, it didn't work.  When someone says "let me be honest with you"  this gives me a red flag because I think why do you need to say that.. I'm kinda the last person to figure out someone motives but when I do, I just move on..

hi terry....those that infiltrated the goodness on SM eventually showed their TRUE colors and purpose and soon found out their purpose here was useless.....

BTW - you have mail

[AZLady]

Nonesasha, Hello!!!  And, don't you worry, you can wear that tiara with a clear conscience---I didn't say anything about who might deserve it most, I said who wants it most!! And, anyway, Klaasend knows I hate brownosing.  Oh, and Klaasend, you do an OK job; you know where the tiaras are kept if you want one (just let her wear the biggest one ; you don't want to have to bother editing any Southern cussing).

Sunny, I am so sorry to hear about your arm.  The good news is that it has a lot of time to heal before we need to get started organizing this house.   Why don't you go ahead and look into flights out here for this fall?!

I can't believe how much I'll miss ya'll.  Best wishes to each one of you.  You know, that line that Shakespeare wrote especially in case I ever needed it, the one about parting, is so true.  And, why, oh why, I wonder if my husband wanted to take me on some spectacular trip, didn't he choose the Orient---that's where all the best pearls are!!!!  

See ya'll this fall (and if ya'll start planning my return party, ya'll might want to remember my fondness for pearls; they also make a nice hostess gift, Sunny--even though I've invited you to help me organize this place, which might be considered work and a favor to me, I will technically be hostessing, and I know that you understand that line of thinking.   )

Fond farewell, Darleen.  Have a wonderful time!  We look forward to pics and stories of your trip, so make sure you keep a logbook.  Your return party will be a smash and you'll be the center of attention, I'm sure!  

[thirdstrike]

Hey everyone!  Hope all are having a good day...

[Tylergal]

Darleen, I expect you to be so indulged with pearls, you may have added them as the crowning touch to your tiara.  "Parting is such sweet sorrow..."  

Shizaru, please 'splain what you would arrive at given your "pro" and "con" choices here.

AZLady, I think Chavez is salivating, especially seeing the sites going down, knowing that AHATA can no longer afford to fund these posters.  Well, at least the old attorney might have gotten part of it back with his Love Offering for Joran.  LOL.  What goes around, comes around.  Did they in turn give a good portion of it back to Joran's defense fund.  If so, goody, goody, goody.

[terryd270]

I come here to know that the world hasn't completely gone into a molecular-sized black hole in a research facility in Aruba ane will slip from int containment flied, plummet to the earth's core and destroy the planet..  I had a giant fight over the weekend with a good friend because of this case and I get disappointed.. You guys give me up that there are people that still have human qualities and care about others.. That friend has been put on my discount list and whatever they say I just discount as worthless..

[SunnyinTX]

Anna, if these people are paid, when they stop being useful, then the paychecks stop.  So, they really don't have any more time than their employer gives them, usually not enough time before showing their true colors.  Time and patience always shows the truth.  We have all three here.

[darleenofalabama]

Thanks, AZLADY; and ya'll are all my witnesses--I am only LOANING her (I mean Nonesasha) that tiara!!!!