Lively Case Discussion #500 7/22 - 7/24/2006

[flyingmermaid]

Re Frontpage post:

Doesn't it just make sense to clean up the trash if you want to be known as an Island Paradise anyway?  

So worried about their delicate eco system that they blasted Tim Miller's group for disturbing a turtle nest and if you go there the place is full of trash, bloody mattresses and stray dogs !  Uck!

[klaasend]

New Front Page Post:

AM Digital: One Littered Island, Or is it a Metaphor?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/24/am-digital-one-littered-island-or-is-it-a-metaphor/

Does it seem like Aruba’s garbage problem is a metaphor for pretty much everything that goes on there? Overlook, hide and keep quiet about any issue until it becomes so noticeable that one cannot keep quiet any longer.

The stench of Aruba permeates the globe.

[klaasend]

[SunnyinTX]

Again a great F/P post Red....

At least it's a concern? now?  when we were there we were appalled at the dump sites scattered all over the island.....the only areas that were clean were the tourist areas....but step ouuta that and we felt like we were in a huge dump pile.

[flyingmermaid]

Morning MTWS!

and just for the record alot of Islands in the Carib are like that!

[Shizaru]

Am working on expanded timeline and need info on Bails/Alyse incident:

Roughly when did this occur?

Is that the Honda that Deepak is driving in the photo by DI, showing Deepak driving and Joran in front with him?

Occupants of the car are:

Front: Deepak, Joran

Back: Bails, Alsyse, and Freddy

Where is Steph?  

What is the evidence connecting Mills Resort to that incident?

What other imporant facts?

[msmarple]

Elizabeth Smart Speaks Up to Nancy Grace.

Here's something I copied from a transcript posted elsewhere, excerpted:

Nancy Grace interviewed Elizabeth Smart, the young girl who was abducted from her bedroom when she was fourteen years old ... Elizabeth is trying to help get a new sex offender bill passed through the House and Senate ... she agreed to be on the show to promote the bill.

GRACE: Oh, Elizabeth, you know, you can never know how intensely you were searched for and prayed for during all of that time. Do you let yourself think back on it, or do you try not to think about — like a lot of crime victims, we try not to think of it sometimes.

ELIZABETH SMART: Well, you know, I said earlier today, I have so much — so much to look forward to. I have a whole life ahead of me. It`s just not even worth looking back.

GRACE: Elizabeth, I remember when you first went missing and literally hundreds of people were out looking for you. Now we know you were being held captive not very far away from your home at all. Did you ever hear people calling out your name, trying to find you?

ELIZABETH SMART: There was one time.

GRACE: At that moment, did you want to scream out, Here I am, help me?

ELIZABETH SMART: I mean, of course. Who wouldn`t?

GRACE: At that moment, when you knew people were looking for you, your parents were there. They were trying to find you. How did that make you feel?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I didn`t know how big it was. And it was — it was good to know people were looking for me, but I — I felt so far away, you know, I just — it didn`t really connect at that time. And you know, and I think that…

GRACE: And you were such a little girl, Elizabeth. I mean, you were just 14 years old.

ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.

GRACE: It`s hard to expect a little 14-year-old girl to react the way an adult might imagine they would react under those circumstances. You were afraid, I assume.

ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.

GRACE: Did your kidnappers tell you they would hurt you or your family if you tried to get away?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, they did. And I really am here to support the bill and not to go into what — you know, what happened to me, what the whole — like, what is in my past because I`m not here to give an interview on that. I`m here to help push this bill through.

 GRACE: And I want you to push the bill through and I want people to hear your voice.

When we take a look back, there`s a shot of Elizabeth Smart, and here she is, four years later. And frankly, it`s a miracle that she was ever found. You know, a lot of people have seen shots of you wearing a burqa. How did you see out of that thing?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I`m really not going to talk about this at this time. I mean, that`s something I just don`t even look back at. And I really — I really — to be frankly honest, I really don`t appreciate you bringing all this up.

[Shizaru]

Occupants of the car are:

Front: Deepak, Joran

Back: Bails, Alsyse, and Freddy

Where is Steph?

Screwed this up: I know it's Bails and Steph in back with Freddy in the second photo, so where is Alyse?

[klaasend]

Am working on expanded timeline and need info on Bails/Alyse incident:

Roughly when did this occur?

Is that the Honda that Deepak is driving in the photo by DI, showing Deepak driving and Joran in front with him?

Occupants of the car are:

Front: Deepak, Joran

Back: Bails, Alsyse, and Freddy

Where is Steph?  

What is the evidence connecting Mills Resort to that incident?

What other imporant facts?

The photos were uploaded to Webshots on March 26, 2006 so some time prior to that, most likely around March 15-20th, 2005.

Back seat is Alyse/Freddy/Stef (not Bailey - Bailey is taking the photo).


Stef is in the back seat to the right of Freddy - Stef lives in Aruba.

What connects THE MILL RESORT is a photo we have of Stef (naked) in a room at THE MILL RESORT that we suspect was taken that same night.


Joran and Stef:

[mrs. red]

Are we sure she's naked?  I mean it's her shoulder... but in the tube top she is wearing in the car would make it seem she is naked in that picture...


now having asked that...I in no way don't think it's not possible that she was...just something I just noticed...

[Shizaru]

Am working on expanded timeline and need info on Bails/Alyse incident:

Roughly when did this occur?

Is that the Honda that Deepak is driving in the photo by DI, showing Deepak driving and Joran in front with him?

Occupants of the car are:

Front: Deepak, Joran

Back: Bails, Alsyse, and Freddy

Where is Steph?  

What is the evidence connecting Mills Resort to that incident?

What other imporant facts?

The photos were uploaded to Webshots on March 26, 2006 so some time prior to that, most likely around March 15-20th, 2005.

Back seat is Alyse/Freddy/Stef (not Bailey - Bailey is taking the photo).


Stef is in the back seat to the right of Freddy - Stef lives in Aruba.

What connects THE MILL RESORT is a photo we have of Stef (naked) in a room at THE MILL RESORT that we suspect was taken that same night.


Joran and Stef:

Why 15-20th?

Can you post the photo of Deepak driving by DI with Joran in front and porn on the DVD player?  Was that taken the same night?

Is the car in both photos the Honda?

Is it known where Joran/Freddy/Deepak met Bails and Alyse- I assume CnCs?

[mrs. red]

Elizabeth Smart Speaks Up to Nancy Grace.

Here's something I copied from a transcript posted elsewhere, excerpted:

Nancy Grace interviewed Elizabeth Smart, the young girl who was abducted from her bedroom when she was fourteen years old ... Elizabeth is trying to help get a new sex offender bill passed through the House and Senate ... she agreed to be on the show to promote the bill.

GRACE: Oh, Elizabeth, you know, you can never know how intensely you were searched for and prayed for during all of that time. Do you let yourself think back on it, or do you try not to think about — like a lot of crime victims, we try not to think of it sometimes.

ELIZABETH SMART: Well, you know, I said earlier today, I have so much — so much to look forward to. I have a whole life ahead of me. It`s just not even worth looking back.

GRACE: Elizabeth, I remember when you first went missing and literally hundreds of people were out looking for you. Now we know you were being held captive not very far away from your home at all. Did you ever hear people calling out your name, trying to find you?

ELIZABETH SMART: There was one time.

GRACE: At that moment, did you want to scream out, Here I am, help me?

ELIZABETH SMART: I mean, of course. Who wouldn`t?

GRACE: At that moment, when you knew people were looking for you, your parents were there. They were trying to find you. How did that make you feel?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I didn`t know how big it was. And it was — it was good to know people were looking for me, but I — I felt so far away, you know, I just — it didn`t really connect at that time. And you know, and I think that…

GRACE: And you were such a little girl, Elizabeth. I mean, you were just 14 years old.

ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.

GRACE: It`s hard to expect a little 14-year-old girl to react the way an adult might imagine they would react under those circumstances. You were afraid, I assume.

ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.

GRACE: Did your kidnappers tell you they would hurt you or your family if you tried to get away?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, they did. And I really am here to support the bill and not to go into what — you know, what happened to me, what the whole — like, what is in my past because I`m not here to give an interview on that. I`m here to help push this bill through.

 GRACE: And I want you to push the bill through and I want people to hear your voice.

When we take a look back, there`s a shot of Elizabeth Smart, and here she is, four years later. And frankly, it`s a miracle that she was ever found. You know, a lot of people have seen shots of you wearing a burqa. How did you see out of that thing?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I`m really not going to talk about this at this time. I mean, that`s something I just don`t even look back at. And I really — I really — to be frankly honest, I really don`t appreciate you bringing all this up.

I watched that interview... it was very interesting.. Elizabeth Smart was vey composed!!

[klaasend]

The general consensus from people that know alot more about cars than I is that this IS NOT Deepak's Honda.  I'm not sure one way or the other.  There are 2 video screens showing the same porn video.  Deepaks car has 2 DVD players as well.

In the picture of the front seat, it was determined they are at Diamonds International.  As far as where they met up with Deepak/Joran/Freddy it's anyone's guess.  Stef is friends with Joran/Deepak/Freddy so she may have introduced them anywhere.  Bailey and Alyse were staying at the Wyndham which is right accross the street from The Mill Resort.

[Jacqueline]

Elizabeth Smart Speaks Up to Nancy Grace.

Here's something I copied from a transcript posted elsewhere, excerpted:

Thanks for posting this, MsMarple....

[KatzHome]

Good morning everyone....  hey....  it's nice to see a few people here this morning...  I was awfully lonely last night...  and just couldn't sleep right...

Mrs. Red ~ are you here this morning still?  I'm only a few pages behind this morning...

[Jerry from Ohio]

Although I am as Happy as anyone that Elizabeth Smart was found  and safe and returned to her family.
  I do disagree with HOW she handeled this interview
  This young woman is eduacated and not of gehtto mentality.
  She could have held the interview on pause and explained to Nancy Grace or the producers (which are usually the ones to talk too in a case like this) explained that she would not address the subject of how and what went on during her period of captivity and then went on with the interview to press for the bill .
  Instead of her telling Grace on air that she didn't appriciate being asked these types of questions. I do realize that this young woman was and is still is under Psychiatric treatment Counseling but the way she expressed from what we know and still do not know everything out of sensativity to her ordeal she came across as an upper middle class brat that is used to giveing orders to adults . IMO .
  I sincerly hope that the bill passes (I am assumeing that it is written well) and that Elizibeth get's ALL the help that is needed for her full and complete recovery . this is again JMHO    

Elizabeth Smart Speaks Up to Nancy Grace.

Here's something I copied from a transcript posted elsewhere, excerpted:

Nancy Grace interviewed Elizabeth Smart, the young girl who was abducted from her bedroom when she was fourteen years old ... Elizabeth is trying to help get a new sex offender bill passed through the House and Senate ... she agreed to be on the show to promote the bill.

GRACE: Oh, Elizabeth, you know, you can never know how intensely you were searched for and prayed for during all of that time. Do you let yourself think back on it, or do you try not to think about — like a lot of crime victims, we try not to think of it sometimes.

ELIZABETH SMART: Well, you know, I said earlier today, I have so much — so much to look forward to. I have a whole life ahead of me. It`s just not even worth looking back.

GRACE: Elizabeth, I remember when you first went missing and literally hundreds of people were out looking for you. Now we know you were being held captive not very far away from your home at all. Did you ever hear people calling out your name, trying to find you?

ELIZABETH SMART: There was one time.

GRACE: At that moment, did you want to scream out, Here I am, help me?

ELIZABETH SMART: I mean, of course. Who wouldn`t?

GRACE: At that moment, when you knew people were looking for you, your parents were there. They were trying to find you. How did that make you feel?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I didn`t know how big it was. And it was — it was good to know people were looking for me, but I — I felt so far away, you know, I just — it didn`t really connect at that time. And you know, and I think that…

GRACE: And you were such a little girl, Elizabeth. I mean, you were just 14 years old.

ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.

GRACE: It`s hard to expect a little 14-year-old girl to react the way an adult might imagine they would react under those circumstances. You were afraid, I assume.

ELIZABETH SMART: Yes.

GRACE: Did your kidnappers tell you they would hurt you or your family if you tried to get away?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, they did. And I really am here to support the bill and not to go into what — you know, what happened to me, what the whole — like, what is in my past because I`m not here to give an interview on that. I`m here to help push this bill through.

 GRACE: And I want you to push the bill through and I want people to hear your voice.

When we take a look back, there`s a shot of Elizabeth Smart, and here she is, four years later. And frankly, it`s a miracle that she was ever found. You know, a lot of people have seen shots of you wearing a burqa. How did you see out of that thing?

ELIZABETH SMART: You know, I`m really not going to talk about this at this time. I mean, that`s something I just don`t even look back at. And I really — I really — to be frankly honest, I really don`t appreciate you bringing all this up.

[mrs. red]

Good morning everyone....  hey....  it's nice to see a few people here this morning...  I was awfully lonely last night...  and just couldn't sleep right...

Mrs. Red ~ are you here this morning still?  I'm only a few pages behind this morning...

I am popping in and out from work...

[Dihannah1]

[    

I am sure I'll get beat up for this....LOL...but what's new ....Wreck I agree....after reading the horrible nasty ugly things on the hate sites I do not take offense to anything said here about aruba, the people involved in the case or the island as a whole..I have said before it's really is the ugliest island I have even been on IMO...of course for those that like the desert, cacti, the absense of the beautiful flora and fauna of most tropical island...it might be their cuppa....just not mine....the beaches are beautiful and the tourists areas are too.....but that's the case on many islands...and there are many ....that treat the tourists like a welcomed visitor not a 'mark'  based on the pervert mentality that aruba has.....

I won't beat you up for your post Sunny.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.  And I understand everyones frustrations.

I don't like the things I read on the other sites either, they are vicious and ugly as you say.

I still choose not to focus or post truly mean spirited posts however, because I feel that is what seperates our forum from many others.[/quote]

I'm not going to beat anybody up either.  I do tend to agree Jacque.  That is what sets SM apart and why we should be proud.  Let's not lower ourselves to other's levels, please?

As RED always says, we need to take the HIGH ROAD!

[KatzHome]

If you ever doubted the Mafia connections to Aruba, look no further.
http://www.arubacentral.com/newspaper/today/July/B-06-07-2006.pdf

I never doubted it at all ~ but what does the Mafia have to do with this case not being solved...

It almost seems to me that the Mob should want to see J2K and Paulus prosecuted for Natalee's death...  to have this be over and done with...

I just don't get it...

Unless the crime is made a lot more convoluted than I truly believe it to be...

And there's been a lot of heavy lawyering-up going on there...  that's a Mafia thing...

[Jacqueline]

Although I am as Happy as anyone that Elizabeth Smart was found  and safe and returned to her family.
  I do disagree with HOW she handeled this interview
  This young woman is eduacated and not of gehtto mentality.
  She could have held the interview on pause and explained to Nancy Grace or the producers (which are usually the ones to talk too in a case like this) explained that she would not address the subject of how and what went on during her period of captivity and then went on with the interview to press for the bill .
  Instead of her telling Grace on air that she didn't appriciate being asked these types of questions. I do realize that this young woman was and is still is under Psychiatric treatment Counseling but the way she expressed from what we know and still do not know everything out of sensativity to her ordeal she came across as an upper middle class brat that is used to giveing orders to adults . IMO .
  I sincerly hope that the bill passes (I am assumeing that it is written well) and that Elizibeth get's ALL the help that is needed for her full and complete recovery . this is again JMHO    



It's also quite possible that she did in fact tell nancy grace and the producers beforehand that she did not want to speak about certain things and Nancy Grace asked her anyway.
As a rule there is a pre interview done and things like that are usually sorted out before.

It's quite possible Nancy Grace just forged on for the more "juicy" interview.