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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #606 4/27 - 4/28/2007  (Read 116367 times)
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Tibrogargan
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« Reply #340 on: April 27, 2007, 11:59:14 PM »

Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
If that is true and they never luminoled that car......I am just at a loss for words. How could that be? That is unconscienable.


Inconceivable isnt it? The last place Natalee was seen...

Too bad deepak has all new interior now.. I wonder if luminol would show traces underneath the new material?


Joe T was burbling that some of the forensic tests/equipment may not have been available to the Aruban LE.   Pffffttttt

Also I would expect there would plenty of Natalee's prints still available at her home????  Maybe it was dusted for prints two years ago?

Just catching up again - went out to buy Vegetables on page 5 - came back to page 14
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dkpen
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« Reply #341 on: April 27, 2007, 11:59:30 PM »

hmmm I was wondering...

Since this is near the 2 year mark of Natalee missing and close to the time schedule for the investigation to close or the case to close...I wonder if this is something they are doing or using so that they can claim to have searched and investigated all that they could and found nothing new. So now Paulus can take them back to court and sue this time?  hmmm was just wondering about that.

I was also wondering if Paulus was leaked or put on notice before hand on this search? He could of rid of any evidence lingering around, ie package Joran sent to Paulus with cd with pictures of Natalee and her drivers license, if this is true?
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« Reply #342 on: April 27, 2007, 11:59:47 PM »

Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
I've taken care of ALL my chores so I can settle in and watch Greta again. I want to hear once more what Jossy says about the search........I thought I heard him say it was completed, but maybe he was just talking about for today.


Partial Transcript

Greta:

Jossy, what happened today in Aruba in this investigation?

Jossy:

Today the Dutch team that came to Aruba about a week ago went at full force at Paul van der Sloot's house. They set up a tent there, they brought 3 dogs, they brought specific search equipment, they brought a judge and a Prosecutor with them and the began to search the premises of Paul's house.

Greta:

Have the premises ever been searched before Jossy?

Jossy:

No, not the house itself or the property but they did search Joran's apartment which is on the premises but not attached to the house itself. From there they took many black bags with them plastic bags with a lot of material which they sent to Holland

Greta:

Today, was anything seized?

Jossy:

We don't know that for certain because they kept a distance between our reporters and themselves. They went inside the property and did their searches and I know they dug up some holes and some holes somewhere on the property but we don't know what else they did. These people are very secretive.

Greta:

One of the things they had was a metal rod; we're looking at a picture right now that looks like that metal rod that's been reported. They had metal rods and shovels; any clue as to what they might have been looking for with those metal rods and shovels. I hate to be graphic, but are they looking for a body or something else?

Jossy:

I don't think they were looking for a body; I think they were looking for something else. They came down here with some specific idea of something to search for on that property. I don't think they would have moved so much human and financial resources just to put out a show for the press. I don't either think this search is based on a hunch or a rumor or some unspecific lead. Something brought them to Aruba and something took them directly to Paul van der Sloot's house and property.

Greta:

Is the search still under way or have they completed their work and they're gone now?

Jossy:

Their work is completed and they've retired to wherever they're staying in Aruba. They stayed there for about 8 hours from about 9:00 or 9:30 and they finished at about 5:30 in the afternoon

Greta:

No arrests right?

Jossy:

No arrests

Greta:

They didn't as far as we know go to the Kalpoe residence did they?

Jossy:

No, the Kalpoe brothers were not part of this specific search

Greta:

Jossy do you have the sense that they are simply being complete and going back and finishing something they didn't do two years ago or do you have the sense that they are on to something?

Jossy:

I have the sense that they are on to something because as I said before, I don't think they would have moved so many people to Aruba with so much expense involved, so much energy and all this equipment and dogs; I don't think they came here for an unspecific reason. They must have had some leads and today the Ministry of Justice put out a Press Release in which they justified this, tying it to something that came up during their review of all these tons of documents and tapes that they took with them to Holland awhile back.

Greta:

Where is Joran van der Sloot? Is he in Aruba or in Holland?

Jossy:

Joran is still in school in the Netherlands. He's busy with his book over there.

Greta:

And Paul and Anita his parents, were they home at the time of this search?

Jossy:

No they weren't but they did go and inform Paul van der Sloot at the courthouse, he is a practicing lawyer now. He was at the courthouse and they went to inform him that they were going to perform this search and he went to his home and then he left after about 15 or 20 minutes and he hasn't been back by 6 o'clock.

Greta:

The fact that a Judge and Prosecutor were on the scene as the search warrant was being executed, is that peculiar or is that procedure?

Jossy:

That's normal procedure here.

Greta:

Karin Janssen who was the Prosecutor is no longer in Aruba, she's been removed, she's completed her term. She's not the one running this right?

Jossy:

No she's not, she's in Holland. She has another task over there. She's completely removed from this as far as officially is concerned.

Greta:

Who is in charge of this investigation?

Jossy:

This investigation is in charge by the people from Holland because remember that the Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes requested the intervention of the Dutch investigators in this case. These people belong to the forensic institute of Holland.

Greta:

Jossy, thank you sir.

What were the investigators looking for and what are the prosecutors hoping to prove. Our producer on the ground in Aruba caught up with the spokesperson for the Prosecutor's office earlier

** I'm not transcribing this short portion. The producer spoke to Vivian
van der Biezen from the Prosecutor's Office on a videophone, and both the video and audio were just terrible.

Greta:

What does Joran have to say about today's events? His american lawyer Joe Tacopina spoke with Joran earlier today. Joe Tacopina joins us.

What does your client say about this search at his home in Aruba?

Tacopina:

Not much, I mean he was surprised, did not know about it. He's pretty much accustomed to this sort of routine going on at this point, so nothing surprises Joran or the family. They're a little distressed, this is 2 years later and they're being placed back in the eye of the storm. We've been there before and this is going to be another scenario where they do a search, do a dig and come up with nothing because Natalee Holloway was never at that house.

I think this is a positive turn of events for the van der Sloots. I believe this could be the beginning of the end. The Aruban authorities I've been told today want to close this case. The Dutch authorities who oversee the Aruban authorities basically said that until they have all their questions answered, they're not going to do that. The first time the van der Sloot residence was searched, it wasn't searched thoroughly, it wasn't search completely because the warrant that was executed at the time, limited them to certain parts of the house and property. This warrant does not do that, it's letting them excavate, dig and do all these things. I think this will put to rest any notion

Greta:

And Joe, how stupid was it that first warrant was so limited? Here's the thing that I don't understand: I've done this timeline with you, with Beth with Joran, I do not understand today if they're being so thorough today, why they didn't go over to the Kalpoe brothers' home and go through their yard, do everything over there. Do you have any information at all that they're going to do that?

Tacopina:

I have no information and in fact I don't believe they're going to do that. If they were going to do that, certainly the element of surprise would be gone. I know they didn't do a forensic sweep on that car

Greta:

They had the car

Tacopina:

This is a different squad Greta, these are forensic professionals here. We had not had this before. These are people who came with the appropriate forensic equipment, modern day science, stuff that wasn't used early on in this investigation. I wish quite frankly it was but I have no information that they will be doing anything with the Kalpoes.

There have been some rumors, some leads you know. We heard at one point one of these advocates if you will, for the anti Joran movement that she's buried underneath the pool or something. So I don't know if they're following up on rumors, I don't know if they're looking to close up all the loose ends. I don't know if they're trying to make sense out of the inconsistencies in the stories initially told but look, I think quite frankly, once this investigation is done, when this search is completed, the forensic analysis is completed, I think this will prove once and for all that Joran had nothing to do with this and I hope it's the beginning of the end.

Greta:

If you're telling me that the forensic investigation done by Holland is profoundly more professional than the one that was done almost two years ago, I'm stunned especially in light of the fact that in March of last year the car was returned to the Kalpoes, the car we know that Natalee was in. Are you telling me that that analysis of the Kalpoe car was done by basically, amateurs, people who don't know how to investigate a scene; whether there's any sign of bodily injury in a car?

Tacopina:

That's right, my understanding is they didn't use any of the forensic tools available. They did a search: they looked for hairs for obvious things that are visible to the naked eye. My understanding is they never luminoled that car, they never did the things that would uncover trace evidence that's not detectable by the naked eye.

What you're seeing now with this Dutch team is a different level of forensic analysis. it's my understanding that these techniques were never employed and quite frankly I don't even know whether they were available.

Greta:

If that indeed is true, let me re-use a word I used moments ago: that is really stupid and I'll add that it's completely unjust and unfair to everybody involved.

Doing a forensic examination of a car is not that sophisticated in this day and age.

Tacopina:

Greta, the search of Paul's house early on was done by police officers who went there looking for things like clothes and shoes. They never went in with a forensic team like this. By the way, we're two years down the road now so I don't know what sort of value they expect to find but hopefully they get their answers, they satisfy themselves and hopefully the people I spoke to in Aruba are right in the suspicion that this may be the beginning of the end.

Greta:

I think they need to go to everybody's house as well as talk to a bunch of people on the beach that they never bothered to talk to including some who may have had connection with others on the island. Joe thank you.

What are the Dutch investigators looking for. Let's bring in former LAPD homicide detective Mark Fuhrman. Mark your hair must be standing on end in the fact they had a limited warrant after she disappeared and 2 years later now they're going around the yard and apparently now wanting to do a more thorough job.

Fuhrman:

Of course it drives me crazy, certainly with the evidence they had that we just knew almost 2 years ago, it seemed to be enough to get a search warrant for the complete premises but we have to look at this too: Paul could have said of course you can search everything, I have nothing to hide, my son is innocent, I'm innocent and we welcome you to do this.

Greta:

Maybe they didn't bother to ask them

Fuhrman:

Perhaps he should have offered but, let's look at the other side of the coin here. The Netherlands sent this group of detectives, forensic scientists and they're actually trying to do the job that should have been done then. We also have to consider that they could have gotten new information that went just a little bit further than probably cause, information that might lead them to start looking for what I assume is decomposing human matter, a decomposing corpse.
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"I lied and thats the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot
AZLady
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« Reply #343 on: April 28, 2007, 12:00:29 AM »

Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Hi miss muffybee, our state doesn't but I have no idea if AL does.


Texas does, that's why I wondered if perhaps Natalee had hers done.  Passports?


fingerprints for passports? I just applied for a new one but just submitted my old one, I honestly don't remember if they do require those? Muffy did they for you?


I was trying to remember.  Got passport years ago.  I don't think they did.


Nope, not for passports.  I got mine decades ago--no fingerprinting.  Kids got theirs in the past 5 years and no prints.

However, every kid in our preschool was fingerprinted and the prints given to parents to keep for safekeeping as an identification tool in case of kidnapping or anything worse.  I still have them and son is 26 now.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #344 on: April 28, 2007, 12:00:36 AM »

Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I have prints of my own kids, taken when they were little as part of a child-safe, anti-kidnapping campaign..  None, I remember the "I don't know these people" campaign.


Hi AZ, glad NJSons and I aren't the only ones who remember that campaign, heck I still have my kids' first teeth they lost  Laughing


Oh, boy...so do I..just don't ask me where everything is right now...then, I'd be in real trouble.
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
robots
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« Reply #345 on: April 28, 2007, 12:01:13 AM »

maybe Natalee "fell" right on the sloot property

if she fell, jewelry could have fallen, broken tooth, chipped tooth

and if K2 were there and witnessed it.........

well, there ya go  Cool
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San
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« Reply #346 on: April 28, 2007, 12:01:16 AM »

Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Hi miss muffybee, our state doesn't but I have no idea if AL does.


Texas does, that's why I wondered if perhaps Natalee had hers done.  Passports?


fingerprints for passports? I just applied for a new one but just submitted my old one, I honestly don't remember if they do require those? Muffy did they for you?

I don't remember being fingerprinted for mine and that was almost 3 years ago.
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yapperz1
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« Reply #347 on: April 28, 2007, 12:03:33 AM »

Our state had a campaign when my child was in 1st or 2nd grade. They took her pic & fingerprint & put it on a plastic card with her DOB, hair & eye color  & even noted her birthmark. I still have the card.
Ga does fingerprint for DL but not for passports.
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I STAND WITH THE GIRL, NATALEE HOLLOWAY

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« Reply #348 on: April 28, 2007, 12:04:15 AM »

I make one post and then poof!  I am two pages behind.   Rolling Eyes

Hi Nonsey.  How was it?  Did it all go as planned?
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #349 on: April 28, 2007, 12:04:25 AM »

dkpen....I'm being a PITA, but I think your sig line is blowing the margin a bit....it's so pretty, maybe I'm the PITA... Very Happy
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

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« Reply #350 on: April 28, 2007, 12:04:50 AM »

No, no fingerprints for passports.  I was just trying to think back, since it's been a number of years.  I remember when my first son was just a little boy, there was a program that was available, where you put your childs hand prints on a card to keep in case they were missing at some time.  There is a new thing out now, where you even clip a piece of your childs hair and keep it in an envelope (DNA) so you have it available...
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« Reply #351 on: April 28, 2007, 12:04:57 AM »

Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
If that is true and they never luminoled that car......I am just at a loss for words. How could that be? That is unconscienable.


Inconceivable isnt it? The last place Natalee was seen...

Too bad deepak has all new interior now.. I wonder if luminol would show traces underneath the new material?


I would certainly think so, if the floor boards in the car were checked. I know this is gruesome, and I don't want to be tactless, but I imagine the quantity of bllod would be a determing factor. There would have had to be enough blood to saturate the carpet and seep through.......sorry.
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sb
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« Reply #352 on: April 28, 2007, 12:05:13 AM »

If Antonio Carlo was hiding evidence, this is BIG. Not that I believe what that person posted necessarily, but it points to how large a circle of people are involved with this little scheme.

I think that if Joran were on the run, that would be BIG news in our media and they would be able to substantiate if that were true or not.
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Natalee's family/friends still need our prayers.
San
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« Reply #353 on: April 28, 2007, 12:05:26 AM »

Quote from: "robots"
maybe Natalee "fell" right on the sloot property

if she fell, jewelry could have fallen, broken tooth, chipped tooth

and if K2 were there and witnessed it.........

well, there ya go  Cool

Oh the K2's witnessed it alright.

"Satish Kalpoe - How is the girl"
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nonesuche
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« Reply #354 on: April 28, 2007, 12:05:27 AM »

Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
I make one post and then poof!  I am two pages behind.   Rolling Eyes

Hi Nonsey.  How was it?  Did it all go as planned?


it did and I came out the other side  Laughing now I just don't know if ever I'll have a day of rest again  Laughing {{HUG}}
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I continue to stand with the girl.
bleachedblack
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« Reply #355 on: April 28, 2007, 12:06:08 AM »

Blood Rolling Eyes  this darn laptop always messes me up . Gotta blame something.
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robots
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« Reply #356 on: April 28, 2007, 12:06:21 AM »

Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "robots"
maybe Natalee "fell" right on the sloot property

if she fell, jewelry could have fallen, broken tooth, chipped tooth

and if K2 were there and witnessed it.........

well, there ya go  Cool

Oh the K2's witnessed it alright.

"Satish Kalpoe - How is the girl"




yep
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IndyDan
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« Reply #357 on: April 28, 2007, 12:06:47 AM »

I'm going to bed but want to leave with this;
I don't think the Dutch went thru this big ordeal just to close the case. I don't think the KLPD want to be compared to the ALE by anyone's stretch. I think they think they hold a higher standard of creditbility.

I think somebody will go down, not sure who yet but someone is going to take the fall.  I think our next outrage is going to be the sentence levied on said fall guy(s).

Been logged on here since 10am this morning, time to say goodnite.
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dkpen
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« Reply #358 on: April 28, 2007, 12:06:58 AM »

I didn't have to be finger printed for my passport 2 years ago nor on my FLA drivers license.

I'm sure finding Natalee's finger prints were easy to come by. In her hotel room, brush, toothbrush, cell phone, camera, lugage ect...if not there, I'm sure Beth would of allowed the FBI to take prints from Natalee's room.
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nonesuche
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« Reply #359 on: April 28, 2007, 12:07:04 AM »

Quote from: "sb"
If Antonio Carlo was hiding evidence, this is BIG. Not that I believe what that person posted necessarily, but it points to how large a circle of people are involved with this little scheme.

I think that if Joran were on the run, that would be BIG news in our media and they would be able to substantiate if that were true or not.


Hi SB, thank you for your kind comments on the fball thread, I need to send you something via email soon.

I'd like to know what you think, are you aware that Antonio Carlo and Paulus left Antonio's firm and hung out their own shingle, just the two of them? What do you think of that move?
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I continue to stand with the girl.
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