Lively Case Discussion #608 4/29 - 4/30/2007

[San]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

[crazybabyborg]

Looking back on these posts, the obvious comes home to roost again. When "who picked me up from the beach" becomes an ever changing answer, it's like a neon sign flashing that the SOB is hiding the truth. WHY? Because the truth will put him in jail.

They are all protecting whoever was called in to relieve the Kalpoes and Joran is protecting his father's involvement.  Deepak:  You don't care about your family.  Joran:  That's all I care about........    Deepak:  Your own father.  

Deepak is surprised that Joran involved his father.  Maybe after the 2:30 Racquet Club sighting, the Kalpoes did leave Joran and natalee at the beach.  Maybe Joran buried Natalee or hid her somehow.  Paulus comes to pick him up, Joran confesses and Paulus has someone take care of it.  No body no case.  When Joran confesses and shows ALE where DEEPAK buried her, she's not there because Paulus's friends made sure of it.  
  Possible.

You see the car tapes exactly as I do. That scenario is VERY plausible to me, Puma!

[Lala'sMom]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Could they have been checking the point of view of the person taking the picture of the van that delivered the mattress?  I can't remember if that was from inside, or outside.

Could someone have said they saw a body being buried in the yard?

[bleachedblack]

when she woke up and realized she was raped

thats where the PREMEDITATED murder comes into play

she would go to police

and paulus could not have that

 Natalee was unconscious, and rather than seek medical attention and admit the wrong doing of the boys, Paulus  duct taped her mouth and put her in the pool shed where she then died as a result of asphyxiation in combination with the ETOH she drank,  and the drugs she was given.

Perhaps the area being tape mearsured  is located above the pool shed? Maybe measuring the distance from the shed to the sleeping quarters?

[casa]

look at the gentleman's hands...one below one up high... they are looking to see if someone was thrown over the concrete wall or if someone could have received a fatal blow by falling off that wall.

They have some type of info that something happened on / at that particular wall.

This is very specific info and will confirm or deny a story told by someone very close to this case.

Do you think it might be that Natalee was trying to escape over the wall, fell and hit her head?  That might tie into the "something bad happened".

Casa,
I dont know, just like no one else knows...that wall seems important to the investigators. If the statements that Natalee was in and out of consciousness are correct and I believe they are.. she doesnt seem to be in any condition to make a mad dash.. JMO.

I also believe that she was in and out of consciousness.  Just trying to figure what might be the significance of the wall.  Thanks for responding!  I was beginning to think I was invisible!

[LilPuma]

What if the bartender didn't do his job.  Or Joran was sold a placebo instead of GHB?  So Natalee is falling asleep and waking up because of the shot of 151 and drinking during the evening.  She doesn't pass out as expected as they drive around, she keeps coming to.  The porn movie in the car, then the vds compound and she won't get out of the car.  Joran picks her up and she yells "just put me down".  He starts carrying her and she's fighting him and falls and hits her head.  Somewhere there.  She never comes around again and the guys panic.  

p.s.  I do think at some point Joran hits her.

[crazybabyborg]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

We know the neighbors are in ear shot. Didn't Joran say that the next night when he and Deepak came back home and were waiting on PVDS, Beth, and Dave, that the neighbor asked them to turn the car radio down?

[Lala'sMom]

. If they are there at 4 AM, yeah, they're waiting for the boat and the goon squad from Venezuela who permanently dispose of the "problems" for the honchos on happy-isle.

[/b]

Jackpot!  add Colombians and you have a Royal Flush!

That would explain why you think her body is that far out to sea.  Maybe you are on to something.

[San]

I think if she was at the house and at any time was conscious...she ran...or at least she tried to get away.  Anyone would...she got hurt after Joran caught her.  He would be the most likely to catch her.  She didn't have a chance to get away...Joran was too strong.

I agree Lala's.

[LouiseVargas]

I read all the back pages but I still have two concerns.

1) The front page says that the teams from Holland expect to find Natalee's remains soon in Aruba.

OR:

2) The teams are digging up the yard so they can say "we gave it our very best effort" before the two year mark is over. We put rods down, we jackhammered the yard and found nothing. We did all we could and found no remains. Thus we can now close the case.

[Observer]

I have always felt that Natalee wasn't conscience long after leaving C&Cs. I got that opinion from Joran's interview. He didn't know anything at all about her, and relied almost exclusively on what was in the media, and stereotypes of a Southern White Girl.

I doubt that Natalee was in shape to try to escape, at least for a while.

I agree, and to me, that pushes the events later on into the night. I am finding it hard to fit 2:30 at the pond into a coherent scenario of something bad happening at VDS home in the hours around 3-4 AM. They aren't disposing of a body at that time because from every indication we have, there is likely not to be a body to dispose of... YET.

And yes, I am in the camp that says the cellphone call IS LEGIT.

I think Natalee was out of it from 1 AM when she got into the car, to about 3 AM. Then she came to and it all started going south from there.

I agree..

[sirensong]

I think that Joran was carrying an unconcious Natalee, and dropped her on her head.  They didn't know right away that it seriously injured her, and they didn't seek treatment and she died from the combo of head injury and being drugged.

[Rob]

SB- IIRC it was between 2:30 and 3 am that the gardener spotted them at the pond... which means in Aruban time 2:15 am to 3:30.. not definite enough in my book...but pretty close because he ID's the car.

[San]

when she woke up and realized she was raped

thats where the PREMEDITATED murder comes into play

she would go to police

and paulus could not have that

 Natalee was unconscious, and rather than seek medical attention and admit the wrong doing of the boys, Paulus  duct taped her mouth and put her in the pool shed where she then died as a result of asphyxiation in combination with the ETOH she drank,  and the drugs she was given.

Perhaps the area being tape mearsured  is located above the pool shed? Maybe measuring the distance from the shed to the sleeping quarters?

Bleached what you said above was posted by someone a long time ago.  That post has always stuck in my mind.

[the big hammer]

jvds will REMAIN a "suspect"

The numerous comments and news reports on the current search, most of which ignores central judicial ruling from the Netherlands.

jvds current status as "SUSPECT" in disappearance of Natalee has been "EXTENDED INDEFINITELY".

This critical ruling is devastating to sloot case and ongoing proclamations of current activity as "routine".  Further puts the lie to Tacopina bleating re: how current search could actually "exonerate" jvds.

No.

The ruling in the Netherlands, compelling Aruba courts to extend sloot suspect status "INDEFINIETLY" is a table-setting event for the searches underway now.  What this suggests, is that regardless of search outcome in terms of immediate term findings, sloot will remain on the hook for the disappearance.

The events are linked together.  Any material removed from the searches will be thoroughly examined in forensic settings, regardless of artificial deadlines.  Comfortably allowing needed time for proper review of FACTS.

http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/article700840.ece/Van_der_Sloot_blijft_hoofdverdachte

This April 26 article says it all and is summarized on a lightly commented FP post.  It is worth your thorough review and study.  

The Netherlands courts tee'd this one up nicely, very much in favor of the HT Family interests.

Regardless of the "LONGER TERM" outcome of the searches now underway, jvds will remain a suspect: there is no deadline.  The May 30, 2007 two year statute of limitations has been voided.  Most likely for cause, and some new evidence.

Let's all recognize the linkage of the ruling and the search: they are intertwined.  And ignore uneducated news reporters (and sloot family lawyers) who continue to mouth the two year deadline looms.

It doesn't -- a superior court in the Netherlands has compelled an Aruban court to rule as described.

The goon will be a suspect -- even after this search is done, and even after May 30, 2007.

.

[Silverfox]

This is something that puzzles me....

Joran says when he got home he took a shower and logged on to his messenger and sent a message to DK...

Then he goes into the living room to find a drink....

uh, I thought he only had sleeping quarters -- does the sleeping quarters include a "living room?"   --- or could have he actually been describing the main house area?.... does his sleeping quarters (a separate bedroom) also contain it's own shower?  --- or could have he actually been describing the main house?  Remember the limited search was blocked in the main building....

Does anyone have a floor plan of the buildings on the compound? It would be interesting to know the vicinity of these rooms to each other....

and, if he was in the main house -- then where was his father?  Maybe with Natalee?

[sb]

Add LEP to our list of Monkeys we are glad to see!

I am heading out for this evening... y'all keep fighting the good fight, this soldier Monkey needs some sleep.

[Rob]

. If they are there at 4 AM, yeah, they're waiting for the boat and the goon squad from Venezuela who permanently dispose of the "problems" for the honchos on happy-isle.

[/b]

Jackpot!  add Colombians and you have a Royal Flush!

That would explain why you think her body is that far out to sea.  Maybe you are on to something.

maybe????

[klaasend]

I read all the back pages but I still have two concerns.

1) The front page says that the teams from Holland expect to find Natalee's remains soon in Aruba.

OR:

2) The teams are digging up the yard so they can say "we gave it our very best effort" before the two year mark is over. We put rods down, we jackhammered the yard and found nothing. We did all we could and found no remains. Thus we can now close the case.

We doubt they are spending all the resources they are for your #2.  We think they have a reason to be there.

[Anna]

I think we have the planks of the truth of what happened but just not the blueprint of exactly when each one occurred.