Lively Case Discussion #608 4/29 - 4/30/2007

[Lake Erie Princess]

good evening old friends ! nope i am not new, just have not been around.

hello lala's mom, klass, and all !

this is going to get good this time. i KNOW they will find what they need. for beth and dave's sake it will  happen. keep the faith ! [/b]

OMG!  I am so happy to see you.  Did you know I was thinking about you just today.

see and your thoughts brought me here ! thnx !

[bleachedblack]

I think if she was at the house and at any time was conscious...she ran...or at least she tried to get away.  Anyone would...she got hurt after Joran caught her.  He would be the most likely to catch her.  She didn't have a chance to get away...Joran was too strong.

If she was conscious at the house IMO she was not likely physically able to  run and try and get away.

[LilPuma]

Looking back on these posts, the obvious comes home to roost again. When "who picked me up from the beach" becomes an ever changing answer, it's like a neon sign flashing that the SOB is hiding the truth. WHY? Because the truth will put him in jail.

They are all protecting whoever was called in to relieve the Kalpoes and Joran is protecting his father's involvement.  Deepak:  You don't care about your family.  Joran:  That's all I care about........    Deepak:  Your own father.  

Deepak is surprised that Joran involved his father.  Maybe after the 2:30 Racquet Club sighting, the Kalpoes did leave Joran and natalee at the beach.  Maybe Joran buried Natalee or hid her somehow.  Paulus comes to pick him up, Joran confesses and Paulus has someone take care of it.  No body no case.  When Joran confesses and shows ALE where DEEPAK buried her, she's not there because Paulus's friends made sure of it.  
  Possible.

You see the car tapes exactly as I do. That scenario is VERY plausible to me, Puma!

I said they might be protecting another person who showed up to relieve K2.  I'm thinking Guido, with high priced lawyers, maybe influential parents, and a boss like Posner.  They want to leave this person out of it.  So after hiding the body, this 4th person drops Joran off to be picked up by Paulus.  
This makes it more complicated than I think it is, but it helps explain the confusion over pick up persons and times.

[San]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

We know the neighbors are in ear shot. Didn't Joran say that the next night when he and Deepak came back home and were waiting on PVDS, Beth, and Dave, that the neighbor asked them to turn the car radio down?

Yes and he is lying.  It was the night before and he is making up a lie because he knows the neighbor saw something.  Joran is trying to say it was the next night and it wasn't.

[Anna]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

Where is that neighbor house in relation to the man with the measuring tape on the fence?

[Observer]

Red:

Bernie grim also said he was positive that Joran had nothing to do with her dissapearance..But may know a little more than he is telling..

Ya gotta love a pundit who never stepped foot in Aruba, nor really follows the case using such words.

Attys will tell you never to make such statements like that because there is no wiggle room.

Bernie is positive, how? Was he there? Or is it because JVDS told him he was innocent. Bernie is a defense atty. I think its a safe bet that more of his clients have lied to him and told him their were innocent and wound up guilty than the converse.

I have come to learn that most pundits on TV are useless, most notably the atty's that pass themselves off as experts on everything with no knowledge what-so-ever.

I was a little shocked bernie made those comments last night considering that panel knows nothing about the case or has any interest. I can barely stomach any opinions on that show anymore except Dr.Bodin. Watch that Rosemarie Pitbull next time she is on the air..She is viscious..

[Lake Erie Princess]

Add LEP to our list of Monkeys we are glad to see!

I am heading out for this evening... y'all keep fighting the good fight, this soldier Monkey needs some sleep.

thanks !

[LilPuma]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

They heard screams and J2K said it was the radio?  

How high are those walls around the vds house?

[klaasend]

This is something that puzzles me....

Joran says when he got home he took a shower and logged on to his messenger and sent a message to DK...

Then he goes into the living room to find a drink....

uh, I thought he only had sleeping quarters -- does the sleeping quarters include a "living room?"   --- or could have he actually been describing the main house area?.... does his sleeping quarters (a separate bedroom) also contain it's own shower?  --- or could have he actually been describing the main house?  Remember the limited search was blocked in the main building....

Does anyone have a floor plan of the buildings on the compound? It would be interesting to know the vicinity of these rooms to each other....

and, if he was in the main house -- then where was his father?  Maybe with Natalee?

None of us have been in the Sloot home and we don't have a floor plan.  My guess is he might have a small bathroom in the apartment.  I also think that he went to the main family/dining area, the other building to get something to eat/drink.

[bleachedblack]

when she woke up and realized she was raped

thats where the PREMEDITATED murder comes into play

she would go to police

and paulus could not have that

 Natalee was unconscious, and rather than seek medical attention and admit the wrong doing of the boys, Paulus  duct taped her mouth and put her in the pool shed where she then died as a result of asphyxiation in combination with the ETOH she drank,  and the drugs she was given.

Perhaps the area being tape mearsured  is located above the pool shed? Maybe measuring the distance from the shed to the sleeping quarters?

Bleached what you said above was posted by someone a long time ago.  That post has always stuck in my mind.

I have re-read that post recently and it seems sadly possible.

[sirensong]

This is something that puzzles me....

Joran says when he got home he took a shower and logged on to his messenger and sent a message to DK...

Then he goes into the living room to find a drink....

uh, I thought he only had sleeping quarters -- does the sleeping quarters include a "living room?"   --- or could have he actually been describing the main house area?.... does his sleeping quarters (a separate bedroom) also contain it's own shower?  --- or could have he actually been describing the main house?  Remember the limited search was blocked in the main building....

Does anyone have a floor plan of the buildings on the compound? It would be interesting to know the vicinity of these rooms to each other....

and, if he was in the main house -- then where was his father?  Maybe with Natalee?

Good point, Silverfox.  That was something I wondered earlier in the case and never heard anything about.

[Lala'sMom]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

The glaring question here is (this is for the darkside too)  WHY DOES SATISH ASK IF SHE IS ALRIGHT LATER ON??? She was not dead, but unconscious. He never saw her dead...Deepak knew she was dead at some point but he didn't know what happened to her body.

[Anna]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

We know the neighbors are in ear shot. Didn't Joran say that the next night when he and Deepak came back home and were waiting on PVDS, Beth, and Dave, that the neighbor asked them to turn the car radio down?

Yes and he is lying.  It was the night before and he is making up a lie because he knows the neighbor saw something.  Joran is trying to say it was the next night and it wasn't.

I think so, too, San.  Joran's lies are always those Designer Lies of his that have multiple reasons.  This way even the neighbor might think was it Sunday night or Monday night I heard all of that?

But this is what I am thinking as well.  Now I also wonder if one of their windows can see over that wall as well and would like to see all the photos we have of their house and where the windows are but I am not about to ask Klaas or anybody else to look for those, will do so myself tomorrow looking for a window high enough to see into their yard maybe even over that fence.

.

[Rob]

look at the gentleman's hands...one below one up high... they are looking to see if someone was thrown over the concrete wall or if someone could have received a fatal blow by falling off that wall.

They have some type of info that something happened on / at that particular wall.

This is very specific info and will confirm or deny a story told by someone very close to this case.

Do you think it might be that Natalee was trying to escape over the wall, fell and hit her head?  That might tie into the "something bad happened".

Casa,
I dont know, just like no one else knows...that wall seems important to the investigators. If the statements that Natalee was in and out of consciousness are correct and I believe they are.. she doesnt seem to be in any condition to make a mad dash.. JMO.

I also believe that she was in and out of consciousness.  Just trying to figure what might be the significance of the wall.  Thanks for responding!  I was beginning to think I was invisible!

I know the feeling...LOL.. I heard ya..

[San]

This is something that puzzles me....

Joran says when he got home he took a shower and logged on to his messenger and sent a message to DK...

Then he goes into the living room to find a drink....

uh, I thought he only had sleeping quarters -- does the sleeping quarters include a "living room?"   --- or could have he actually been describing the main house area?.... does his sleeping quarters (a separate bedroom) also contain it's own shower?  --- or could have he actually been describing the main house?  Remember the limited search was blocked in the main building....

Does anyone have a floor plan of the buildings on the compound? It would be interesting to know the vicinity of these rooms to each other....

and, if he was in the main house -- then where was his father?  Maybe with Natalee?

To me he is describing the main house.

[klaasend]

someone watching from the FENCE/tree area and DUTCH verifying that it was possible  

Hmmmm that's a thought. Distance from the tree area that a neighbor might have witnessed something? Good thought Robots....what happened you went outside and climbed your fence and the idea came to you?    

I believe the Sloots neighbor witnessed something.

Let's face it if you hear a girl screaming what do you do?  You go to the door or window to see what is going on.

I wouldn't doubt for one second that Joran might have been screaming himself.  They could have all been screaming to Joran to stop hitting her.

Where is that neighbor house in relation to the man with the measuring tape on the fence?

[Lala'sMom]

It's been fun but I must get some sleep tonight.  Hugs to Nemo.

One more thought before I go...

Anna's right DIG UP THE POOL!!!

[klaasend]

Here's another good shot of the side of the house showing Joran's apartment the area where they were digging:



http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/0,3927,443:8,00.html

[klaasend]

Nite Lala's

LEP - great to see you tonight!

[Observer]

Makes sense that Natalee was in the main house as well.. Proffessional cleaning job and then friend judge witt blocked them from searching..They had alot to hide at that residence..IMO