Lively Case Discussion #612 5/2 - 5/4/2007

[blah]

Good morning blah, Leslie and Easy...!

[Peaches]

Is anybody watching Mitt?  

where is he?  y'all know I am all about fred thompson now... don't you?


LOL... I would like to see it... what channel??

Did you see him talking to Sean Hannity the other nite?  I love Fred Thompson.  He thinks before he opens his mouth.  He said he had only run for office twice and won both times.  I think he would be great as Pres.

[Easywriter]

Hi BT!  Kind of like old home week around this place, isn't it?  Old posters have been coming out of the woodwork since the Dutch invaded Aruba.  I’ve also seen many names of those that used to be regulars at another forum.

Maybe, maybe, maybe this latest turn of events will be the final push that takes this case to court!!!!!!!!!!

[snoopy]

Good Morning Everybody!!  

[Rob]

Hello All!

Hmmmmm…….. Let’s see……… Where did we leave off……  Natalee missing, botched investigation and the perpetrators still walking the streets?  Does that sound about right?

Easy, you nailed it...

Here's where I'm at... only possibly microscopic evidence now.. and if there is none found, they are not getting a conviction. These statements are all over the place. Those are not going to do it alone...Unless they have the 'real time-line' ...it's going to be hard to convict anyone of anything other than abduction, and that one will be hard because Natalee's friends say she didn't want to get out of the car.

And this new witness that pointed them in the direction of the Slootie Toots home might not be right at all. There could have been something there at one point, but it looks like whatever it was is gone now. And after two years it's hard to believe anything is still there. I was hopeful like everyone else, but reality set in.

I imagine that the bags and boxes of evidence taken out are swabs and test tubes containing samples from Joran's Granny Flat, and other areas of the VDS home. Joran's Flat is a bacteria farm and prolly caked in DNA from all kinds of sources.. doubt you'll find anything there after two years that can be ID as Natalee's. It would be a proverbial needle in hay stack.

Unless they find DNA from Natalee in the VDS main residence, I think this is over... I hope I'm wrong. The KLPD is most likely not going to find Natalee's body on the island or they would be digging in other areas. The only took the refrigeration truck to the Sloots where they believed she was located.. most likely on the words of this witness.

Looks like it will come down to the International Super Hero ~ Tim Miller and TES. Not only is he the last shot, he's the best shot.

I think there is more than ample evidence to prove there was a series of crimes here, but how would a judge in that system convict anyone without physical evidence?

My personal belief is this ~ when the cover-up happened, it compromised everything and in a sense it was out of Paulus, Joran, Deepak and Satish's hands... Aruba has to live with the decisions they have made. In the beginning they thought this would blow over...and we're all still here. No one would still be here if no one thought there wasn't a cover up and a crime. You dont need a cover up if there is NO crime.

The injustice of it all is what drives 99 % of those still following the case passionately.

[San]

I went and looked at the times of the computer records again and Val was on a place called forums_x-plane.org ?/@ 3:07  but I can't find the site now.

Val has to be on the school bus at 6:30 and at 3 a.m. he is on the computer playing games?

Do those kids never sleep?

.

Well, isn't it peculiar that he arrived back from NL on Wednesday and this was Monday morning prior to his arrival?  Was he logged on from Holland?  That is bright time of day for them, right?  Was it Joran on the computer or Paulus using his ID?  Too many liars playing lying games with liars who love lying.

I love this line

[San]

*******, we have discussed that ad nauseum in the past, anywhere from getting his orders from some big people who are involved in some big illegal business to perhaps having to meet with someone whose order he did not fill, or how he screwed up a kidnapping that he was paid to do, and I often wondered about the bank deposit in the middle of the night and if that was from someone in Florida and if that someone in Florida employs him to provide videos of pornographic activity, if he was going there to get money for one reason or another.  He said he went there to cancel Joran's entrance into school, but the truth is, you either call and cancel or just not show up.  You do not have to do international travel to cancel your admission to a college, no way.

You're right Tyler.  He went there for other reasons and already had his excuse planned.

[San]

Death by OD

******* writes: That would be very logical and I also thought that for quite a while. Just too many things dont add up that NH was unconscious and never woke up.

Dr Baden has described in excruciating detail -- on air -- the process of death caused by overdosing on a date-rape - or other - drug.  Especially given what he knew as a fairly healthy, and other wise fairly normal, 18 yr old female.

The death process from overdose takes takes hours, and can actually last a full day: 24 hours.  The domino effects of various body systems breaking down, and the cascading to an ultimate conclusion does NOT happen in 2-3 hours.  The unconscious state, while still alive, can go on for a long time.

If Natalee was dead by 3:30AM on 5/30/05 -- she was more than likely murdered resulting from a physical assault.

It is understandable, in retrospect today, given this explanation why Jannsen filed "premeditated murder" charges against Paulus van der Sloot.
Jannsen's filing brings forward the most monstrous of many possible outcomes:

That Paulus intentionally killed an unconscious and drugged Natalee, in order to dispose of her body, and to hide the ravages of the assault she suffered at the hands of his deviant son.
.
.

This is exactly what happened.  Paulus killed Natalee to save his son.  They are not covering for 3 young punks they are covering for Paulus.

just one thing to add:
As ordered by Anita - Paulus killed Natalee to save his son.

One of the things that struck me was that Joran said he didn't have a job and Deepak was the only one who worked.  In one of the suspects statements I believe they say they went to the casino to earn money.  I believe it was Deepak's statement.

[San]

This is exactly what happened.  Paulus killed Natalee to save his son.  They are not covering for 3 young punks they are covering for Paulus.

just one thing to add:
As ordered by Anita - Paulus killed Natalee to save his son.

Could very well be blah.

I can hear Anita on the phone now with Paulus.  What do you mean Paulus what should I do.  You know damm well what to do.  Take care of it Paulus and let me know when it's done.

[Peaches]

Death by OD

******* writes: That would be very logical and I also thought that for quite a while. Just too many things dont add up that NH was unconscious and never woke up.

Dr Baden has described in excruciating detail -- on air -- the process of death caused by overdosing on a date-rape - or other - drug.  Especially given what he knew as a fairly healthy, and other wise fairly normal, 18 yr old female.

The death process from overdose takes takes hours, and can actually last a full day: 24 hours.  The domino effects of various body systems breaking down, and the cascading to an ultimate conclusion does NOT happen in 2-3 hours.  The unconscious state, while still alive, can go on for a long time.

If Natalee was dead by 3:30AM on 5/30/05 -- she was more than likely murdered resulting from a physical assault.

It is understandable, in retrospect today, given this explanation why Jannsen filed "premeditated murder" charges against Paulus van der Sloot.
Jannsen's filing brings forward the most monstrous of many possible outcomes:

That Paulus intentionally killed an unconscious and drugged Natalee, in order to dispose of her body, and to hide the ravages of the assault she suffered at the hands of his deviant son.
.
.

This is exactly what happened.  Paulus killed Natalee to save his son.  They are not covering for 3 young punks they are covering for Paulus.

Good morning.  As usual, I agree totally with my pistol packing pal.

[San]

Hello All!

Hmmmmm…….. Let’s see……… Where did we leave off……  Natalee missing, botched investigation and the perpetrators still walking the streets?  Does that sound about right?

Hey Easy welcome back.

[bleachedblack]

Morning Monkeys, didn't really get to stop in yesterday, did a quick read by and didn't seem there was any news outta aruba.

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/5/4/

Un di e 4 “Colombiano” ta reacciona riba noticia...
LOKE BARTENDER A HACI CU CLIENTE

ORANJESTAD (AAN) Yesid Arias Tamayo, un di e 4 “Colombianonan” ta gradici Diario pa e oportunidad pa alcara e noticia cu a sali den Diario dia 2 di mei 2007 bou e titulo “Cuatro Colombiano cu a bebe sin paga a keda deteni”.

Nan ta spera cu e articulo cu a sali publica no ta (solamente) basa ariba informacion di polis, pasobra e forma di proceder di Recherche den e caso aki ta alemenos hopi cuestionabel. Na prome lugar tres di nos ta Colombiano cu pasport Hulandes y un ta Venezolano.

Nos tur tin hopi aña biba na Aruba sin ningun problema. Na prome instante solamente tres di nos a yega na e lugar na Boegoeroei ariba brommer y nos a bebe dos cerves cada un, mas nos a treat algun conoci eynan. Na momento cu nos a pidi e cuenta esey a sali Afl. 59,00. Manera costumber nos a pone Afl. 60,00 boa di e boter bashi y nos a sali bay. Ora nos tabata ariba e parking lot y nos tabata wak un di nos bromernan cu pa a cai abou e bartender a sali pafo y a grita nos pa ladron y mas cos menos bunita. Nos a puntra kico ta su problema y e a acusa nos cu nos kier a sali sin paga. Despues un discusion chiquito nos a dicidi di paga atrobe pa evita mas problema.

Nos a bay na e cas di Jean Carlos na unda nos a yama Juan David, pasobra e tabata su brommer cu a cai abou. E a bin pa check su brommer. Despues nos a bay cu auto di Gustavo cerca un otro amigo na Palm Beach na unda nos a come sopi. For di eynan nos kier a bay Moomba, pero pasobra e tabata mucho trempan nos a dicidi di bay back na Perle D’Or pa tuma un par di cervez mas.

Eynan Juan Carlos y Juan David, e dos cu no tabata tey mas trempan cu nos, a sinta pafo y nos a drenta paden. Mi a acerca un hende cu tabata sali for di bar y mi a puntr’e si e ta traha na e lugar. El a bisa mi cu si y ami puntr’e pa e otro bartender, pasobra mi no a comprende pakico nos mester a paga dos biaha.

E momento ey e bartender a pusha mi abao. Mi a lanta y a push’e back. E ora ey e a bay back den bar y mi kier a bira ora mi a sinti cu algo a dal riba mi cabez. Di biaha mi a cai abou y e bartender a bula riba mi y e a sigui hinca mi den mi cara. Mi a sinti cu nan a purba di lanta mi y carga mi for eynan y mi amigonan a pone mi den auto y nan a hiba mi hospital. Na hospital nan mester a duna mi no menos cu 61 gancho!

Eynan mi a bisa polis cu mi kier pone un keho contra e bartender. Polis a bisami dilanti e dokter y enfermeranan presente cu nan ta bay acepta ningun keho di mi! Awor cu mi a sali for di hospital mi a comprende cu mi amigonan ta sera y esun cu a hinca mi y purba di mata mi ta canando rond liberamente, pasobra supuestamente e a defende su mes.
Aparentamente pa husticia na Aruba defende bo mes tambe ta ataka hende di patras cu glas y corta su cara na momento cu e ta abou y ora e tin su wowo tapa door di sanger. E unico cos cu mi amigonan a haci ta hiba mi hospital pa evita algo peor pasa cu mi y pa e motibo ey nan ta deteni y e berdadera criminal ta cana rond. Mi no lo acepta esey y lo haci tur cos locual ley ta permiti mi pa husticia vence. E ultimo pregunta cu mi tin pa Recherche y fiscal ta cu si nos tabata Arubiano nan a actua mes cos.

Online Pap translation:

oranjestad (aan) yesid arias tamayo, one of the 4 “colombianonan” is gradici daily paper for her oportunidad for alcara the news cu owing to leave in daily paper day 2 of half 2007 under the titulo “cuatro colombiano cu owing to drink without pay owing to stay deteni”.

they're wait for cu the articulo cu owing to leave publica do not (solamente) basa upstairs informacion of police, because the form of proceder of recherche in the caso here is alemenos much cuestionabel. at first lugar three of we is colombiano cu passport dutch y one is venezolano.

we all have much year live at aruba without none problem. at first instant only three of we owing to arrive at the lugar at boegoeroei upstairs brommer y we owing to drink two cerves cada one, more we owing to treat some conoci eynan. at instant cu we owing to ask the cuenta esey owing to leave afl. 59,00. as costumber we owing to place afl. 60,00 boa of the boter bashi y we owing to leave bay. hour we was upstairs the parking lot y we was look at one of we bromernan cu for owing to cai downstairs the bartender owing to leave pafo y owing to bark we for thief y more cos less beautiful. we owing to ask about kico is his problem y the owing to acusa we cu we wanted owing to leave without pay. after one discusion chiquito we owing to dicidi of pay again for evita more problem.

we owing to bay at the cas of jean carlos at where we owing to calling juan david, because the was his brommer cu owing to cai downstairs. the owing to come for check his brommer. after we owing to bay cu car of gustavo close one another amigo at palm beach at where we owing to come sopi. for of eynan we wanted owing to bay moomba, but because the was mucho trempan we owing to dicidi of bay back at perle d’or for take one pair of cervez more.

eynan juan carlos y juan david, the two cu not was tey more trempan cu we, owing to sit pafo y we owing to enter inside. i have acerca a cu was leave for of bar y i have puntr’e if the is work at the lugar. past owing to tell my cu if y i puntr’e for her another bartender, because my not owing to comprende pakico we have to owing to pay two trip.

the instant ey the bartender owing to push my abao. i have arise y owing to push’e back. the hour ey the owing to bay back in bar y my wanted owing to become hour i have feel cu algo owing to strike on my cabez. of trip i have cai downstairs y the bartender owing to fly on my y the owing to follow hinca my in my cara. i have feel cu they owing to try of arise my y carga my for eynan y my amigonan owing to place my in car y they owing to take away my hospital. at hospital they have to owing to give my not less cu 61 gancho!

eynan i have tell police cu my wanted place one complaint contra the bartender. police owing to bisami fast the doctor y enfermeranan present cu they're bay acepta none complaint of my! now cu i have leave for of hospital i have comprende cu my amigonan is close y esun cu owing to hinca my y try of kill i am canando rond liberamente, because supuestamente the owing to defende his self.

aparentamente for husticia at aruba defende do you self also is access person of behind cu glass y clip his cara at instant cu the is downstairs y hour the have his eye tapa door of blood. the unique cos cu my amigonan owing to haci is take away my hospital for evita algo worse happen cu my y for her motibo ey they're deteni y the berdadera criminal is march rond. my not will acepta esey y will haci all cos locual ley is permiti my for husticia conquer. the ultimo question cu i have for recherche y fiscal is cu if we was aruban they owing to actua self cos.

***

I *think* that some guys having beers left money on the table as they left a restaurant/bar. They then were accused of leaving without paying; possibly someone swiped the money off the table. Bartender/owner (s) chased them down.

I *think* they offered to pay again, and/or asked perhaps for more beer to go, hoping to avoid an altercation/problem. Nonetheless, at least one of them got beat up and requried stitches.

At the hospital, he asked for the police and wanted to file a complaint. The police apparently refused to make a report.

***

Hi, Easy, nice to see you. Thanks for keeping us in touch.

[Peaches]

you know that is an interesting point

prayer

what is Prayer ??

well, im not sure and im not sure you can get 3 people to agree on one thing when it comes to religion but i can tell you this  

when i had a family member in the hospital and when the family members kept going to the hospital to visit and it was a serious situation

the person that was in the hospital knew that everyone that was visiting wanted them to get better....... and of course everyone was praying IN THEIR OWN WAY.... because like i said its different for everyone

but when the person that is in trouble KNOWS that people are doing lots of things to get that person better.......THAT HELPS a lot

so.. when people pray thats really good
and when people do things to try and make things better that really helps
also
i pray for the strength to fight and to keep fighting  

others pray for justice

others pray for all kinds of things

i pray for Natalee and her family and the only thing that will help them
is to be able to have her come home.

give her BACK

You are my hero, Robots.

[Rob]

I don't know if these have been posted, if they have please delete them. TIA

[Rob]

[Easywriter]

Hello All!

Hmmmmm…….. Let’s see……… Where did we leave off……  Natalee missing, botched investigation and the perpetrators still walking the streets?  Does that sound about right?

Easy, you nailed it...

Here's where I'm at... only possibly microscopic evidence now.. and if there is none found, they are not getting a conviction. These statements are all over the place. Those are not going to do it alone...Unless they have the 'real time-line' ...it's going to be hard to convict anyone of anything other than abduction, and that one will be hard because Natalee's friends say she didn't want to get out of the car.

And this new witness that pointed them in the direction of the Slootie Toots home might not be right at all. There could have been something there at one point, but it looks like whatever it was is gone now. And after two years it's hard to believe anything is still there. I was hopeful like everyone else, but reality set in.

I imagine that the bags and boxes of evidence taken out are swabs and test tubes containing samples from Joran's Granny Flat, and other areas of the VDS home. Joran's Flat is a bacteria farm and prolly caked in DNA from all kinds of sources.. doubt you'll find anything there after two years that can be ID as Natalee's. It would be a proverbial needle in hay stack.

Unless they find DNA from Natalee in the VDS main residence, I think this is over... I hope I'm wrong. The KLPD is most likely not going to find Natalee's body on the island or they would be digging in other areas. The only took the refrigeration truck to the Sloots where they believed she was located.. most likely on the words of this witness.

Looks like it will come down to the International Super Hero ~ Tim Miller and TES. Not only is he the last shot, he's the best shot.

I think there is more than ample evidence to prove there was a series of crimes here, but how would a judge in that system convict anyone without physical evidence?

My personal belief is this ~ when the cover-up happened, it compromised everything and in a sense it was out of Paulus, Joran, Deepak and Satish's hands... Aruba has to live with the decisions they have made. In the beginning they thought this would blow over...and we're all still here. No one would still be here if no one thought there wasn't a cover up and a crime. You dont need a cover up if there is NO crime.

The injustice of it all is what drives 99 % of those still following the case passionately.

I hear ya Rob, but I am going to be a little more optimistic for a while longer.  I think the Dutch team was looking for something very specific at the VDS property, but not necessarily a body.  I’m not sure what the refrigerated truck was about, but I don’t see how useful something like that would be for transporting two-year-old remains unless the body had been kept in a freezer for all this time.

There are many things about this latest search that is very confusing from our vantage point, but my gut tells me something is going on and an anonymous tip over a hotline did not initiate that level of investigation.  Something is known, but we are not privy to that info.

[bleachedblack]

IMO I think they were looking for a site where a body was possibly "stashed"/buried for an interval of time. Likely DNA evidence would remain behind if something of the sort had occured.

[msmarple]

Murder & Crime thread: 22,070 views.

[Rob]

Easy, I am still hopeful.... I'm a cynic not a pragmatist. LOL...

You're so right.. we just don't know what they are doing .. That's the part of their system that allows suspicion to creep over everything.

Can you imagine for a second if officials in this country didn't give an update?

All kinds of conjecture would be promulgated. The KLPD will leave the island at some point, most likely without giving a statement and we will have to wait to hear anything.. it could go on another year.. or longer.. or it could be closed and no one will know...

Their system SUX!