Lively Case Discussion #612 5/2 - 5/4/2007

[Tylergal]

It's been awhile.. but didn't the FBI give updates in the TWA Flight 800 and the Belt Way Sniper cases? I think I can think of other cases if you give me a lil bit.. but those at the top of my mind.

That posturing police chief that was blaming the whtie supremists gave many press conferences, looking for an angry white male....I recall that very well because the police chief in Montgomery, Alabama, had videos of these two guys when they killed a woman in a liquor store in Montgomery, and he kept trying to tell that jerk that there was a relationship based on MO.  It was not until a citizen truck driver found and reported these guys that they were eventually caught.  Their version of Mookie was looking in another direction but quick to take credit when it was solved for him.  I recall this well because I had been in that liquor store just before the lady was killed.  We were on our way home from Tampa and realizing it was getting late, we stopped at a liquor store there (Saturday night) to pick up some creme de menthe that I much needed for a dessert I was going to make the next day (Sunday).

[Lala'sMom]

Joran 6/9:
Then Satish, Natalee and myself walked to Deepak's car. Natalee and I walked hand in hand. When we arrived at the car Deepak was already waiting for us. We got into the car and before Deepak drove off I told Deepak and Satish that Natalee wanted to go to my house but that I could not take her there because my father and brothers were home. After I told Deepak and Satish this they said it was OK. Then I told the girl that I could not take her to my house but that I could come to her hotel room. She answered me that she did not want to go to her hotel room and that she wanted to go to the North coast to watch the sharks.

1.  Deepak was seen at some point near the car before Joran arrived with Natalee.  It is in several statements that Deepak was at the car first.  Important...don't know why.

2. Why would Deepak and Satish say "it was OK"????  That seems odd that they said something like.  It's as if they were planning to take her there all along and then it's not big deal to now take her there...I know I am not making any sense....but my next question is this....

DEEPAK, WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST TAKE HER BACK TO THE HOTEL LIKE SHE WAS TOLD?  Nope, they had already made plans and they intended to carry them out...

[Spock]

I want to know the reason that Joran changed the time with Natalee on the beach to 3 hours in his book. Doesn't this open him and his father up to more and further reaching complications?

I would like to see a reprint of that passage stating "three hours at the beach". Leaving C&C at 1:00 puts them at the beach at 1:15, add three hours its 4:15. The computer records put Joran home at 3:20, about an hour earlier than that. We need to nail that passage down.

[Tylergal]

Have we heard any news here about Beth and a significant new man in her life?

Yes, it's in the NE.  I have heard that it's true.  Actually I heard about it a while back but really didn't see any reason to discuss it since it has nothing to do with what happened to Natalee.

This is absolutely true because Klaas and I corresponded via e-mail in this regard when I heard the news out of MB, so this is not new news but is it really that they are an item or they are working together for a similar goal.

[klaasend]

Have we heard any news here about Beth and a significant new man in her life?

Yes, it's in the NE.  I have heard that it's true.  Actually I heard about it a while back but really didn't see any reason to discuss it since it has nothing to do with what happened to Natalee.

This is absolutely true because Klaas and I corresponded via e-mail in this regard when I heard the news out of MB, so this is not new news but is it really that they are an item or they are working together for a similar goal.

Tylergal - good question.

[Tylergal]

There was talk about that relationship not all that long after the impending divorce was announced.  I can see how two people that have been under so much media scrutiny could be drawn together.

Welcome back EASY! Looks like you've lost some weight, LOL  

You talkin' about my plastic 9mm Glock?  

 

[Lala'sMom]

I watching FOX and I think it was reporter Rick Leventhal that was reporting that they had some news.  Actually, the first I saw of it was on CNN, then I turned over to Fox and saw Leventhal on there.  I even called my DH at work...he was on night shift...that was the first I heard of it.

You are right, the first announcement came at night and many could not sleep.  Next morning, they were back-pedalling without any explanation at all.

.

I was one of those that could not sleep. I was so tired the next day and there was a luncheon for the parents at orientation.  We all talked about Natalee and how terrible this was for the family.  It's one of those moments that you never forget...ever.

[Lala'sMom]

I want to know the reason that Joran changed the time with Natalee on the beach to 3 hours in his book. Doesn't this open him and his father up to more and further reaching complications?

I would like to see a reprint of that passage stating "three hours at the beach". Leaving C&C at 1:00 puts them at the beach at 1:15, add three hours its 4:15. The computer records put Joran home at 3:20, about an hour earlier than that. We need to nail that passage down.

I'm with you on this...I tried to do this earlier this week but I am not very good with timelines.  If Joran is going to stick with 3 hours on the beach then he blows his own timelines away. Too hard to keep the lies in order.

[Tylergal]

applied to 7 colleges, was accepted to all 7, 1 giving him a 40,000$ scholarship

BULL CRAP

I agree .

Well, to be honest --- that's not much of a scholarship, considering that my #3 got a $150,000 for five-year program (architecture) back in 1990 to Tulane (the deans' honors scholarship) which only paid tuition, no room and board, no supplies, nada (just registration, sotaspeak).  Then add in what it cost to live in NOLA (at the time it was one of those high-priced real estate places) and add in food, car, supplies of which architects are among the highest next to dentists) and see where $40,000 gets you in college.  That $150,000 was by standards of 15+ years ago.  What would that be today?  Check at Harvard or Yale as they were comparable in thier fees.  I think the sporter would be red-faced to realize that would not get him no more than one year of tuition at some of America's ivy league or kudzu league schools.

[LilPuma]

I see the monkeys are hard at work, but no news.  I just read the 3 chapters of Joran's book.  Not exactly best seller stuff yet.   Sounds like an every-kid-in-the-free-world story.  

see ya later

[Katysmom]

Good morning monkeys!  Has anyone seen Kermit this morning?  He made the front page of Fox News web site.

"Kermit Can Boost Your Sex Drive?" is the title of the article.  I thought of him the minute I saw him.

[Tylergal]

JORAN'S first 6/10/05 statement at 14:30

BETH and DAVE swab and blood samples 14:40

Oh, yeah, they had a body.  They just had to figure out what to do with it while someone was collecting DNA samples.  I hate 'em all.

[robots]

applied to 7 colleges, was accepted to all 7, 1 giving him a 40,000$ scholarship

BULL CRAP

I agree .

Well, to be honest --- that's not much of a scholarship, considering that my #3 got a $150,000 for five-year program (architecture) back in 1990 to Tulane (the deans' honors scholarship) which only paid tuition, no room and board, no supplies, nada (just registration, sotaspeak).  Then add in what it cost to live in NOLA (at the time it was one of those high-priced real estate places) and add in food, car, supplies of which architects are among the highest next to dentists) and see where $40,000 gets you in college.  That $150,000 was by standards of 15+ years ago.  What would that be today?  Check at Harvard or Yale as they were comparable in thier fees.  I think the sporter would be red-faced to realize that would not get him no more than one year of tuition at some of America's ivy league or kudzu league schools.

i know what you mean, but we are talking about the SPORTER...here  

when they produce the DOCUMENTATION that he had money from 7 schools,,well MAYBE i will believe it

MAYBE  

[Tylergal]

On June 10, 2005 two official Aruban representatives released statements to the media that one of the suspects admitted the "something bad happened" to Natalee Holloway, she was confirmed dead, the location of her body was known, and authorities/family were being led to the scene by the suspect who made the admission.

From the Dr. Phil Motion to Compel:

Didn't Anita say a statement was taken by Joran but it was retracted because of the time limit of interrogating a suspect.  What was the exact time she talking about.

The time it took Paulus to dig up some dirt on the officials.

[robots]

applied to 7 colleges, was accepted to all 7, 1 giving him a 40,000$ scholarship

BULL CRAP

I agree .

Well, to be honest --- that's not much of a scholarship, considering that my #3 got a $150,000 for five-year program (architecture) back in 1990 to Tulane (the deans' honors scholarship) which only paid tuition, no room and board, no supplies, nada (just registration, sotaspeak).  Then add in what it cost to live in NOLA (at the time it was one of those high-priced real estate places) and add in food, car, supplies of which architects are among the highest next to dentists) and see where $40,000 gets you in college.  That $150,000 was by standards of 15+ years ago.  What would that be today?  Check at Harvard or Yale as they were comparable in thier fees.  I think the sporter would be red-faced to realize that would not get him no more than one year of tuition at some of America's ivy league or kudzu league schools.

i know what you mean, but we are talking about the SPORTER...here  

when they produce the DOCUMENTATION that he had money from 7 schools,,well MAYBE i will believe it

MAYBE  

or the documentation from 1 SCHOOL
which is what i should have said

[adoronron]

Klaas,
Also see May 31 statement of Joran vdSloot with attachment

"indicating an area"!  He told the beach tale leaving Kalpoes to tell the HI one making them look guilty.

IMO

.

Anna

From one of the later statements that Paulus made (I don't recall when), we know Paulus assisted Joran with his May 31st statement.

I bet before the Holloways arrived Joran had already told Depak that he, Joran ,was developing the beach story and had told Depak he had planted some shoes to prove he had been at the beach with Natalee. Remember, Depak mumbled something about the shoes when they all went back to the HI with the Holloway group. I'm beginning to think Joran took some shoes from the lost and found at the tennis club and planted them at the beach so he would have proof to back up his beach story. Couldn't find size 10 so he grabbed size 14.

After Joran double crosses 2K on the 31st with what I think is the beach story, what do the cops do? They arrest the security guards..........after Joran contradicts the HI story. WTH? I have to assume the story Joran told the ALE was he left her on the beach, he told 2K, 2K went back, raped her, and then took her back to the HI.

Anna, you seem to remember lots of details and there is something I wonder about. The night the Holloways arrived at the Sloot place there were two runs to the Hotel area by everyone right? The first was to go meet J2K. The second was to go back to the HI to look for Natalee. Do you know if anyone stayed behind at the Sloots to keep an eye out for any activity during either of those times?

I don't think Natalee was there the night they grabbed her, but I think she might have been there the night the Holloways arrived.
I tend to think all the digging last week by KLPD was to look for rags, garments, or residue from similar items that may have been quickly shoved underground the night he Holloways showed up just in case there would be a quick walk around or search of the property by ALE that night.

And isn't it interesting that Joran in his book now says he was with her for 3 hours so that his new story lines up with the admission Paulus made to the court about picking them up at 4 AM. Every time the ALE or KLPD let the sloots know of a new piece of evidence against them, they get to just change the story. I don't think Joran could have sex with girl for more than two minutes much less 3 hours. And the slime ball probably needs Viagra just for a two minute session.

Ado

[Tylergal]

As an FYI, Jossy Mansur has people digging through all the statements looking for this Meneses person and hopes to have some info about that later today.

Please convey our gratitude and best wishes to Jossy.  He is a gentleman and a scholar, probably the most interesting person to ever set foot in Aruba.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

June 10, 2005 Timing

Does someone know at what time the press picked up and reported the "something bad happened" AND did the news reports indicate when the Aruban authority made the statement ie what time of day on June 10, 2005?

Thanks.

.

Going through the front page of SM around June 10, 2005.  Found this post very interresting.  LOOK AT THE TIME :

Press Briefing was Canceled - No explanation given

The time of the news conference is not certain, there is word that it will start at 3 or 4 pm.

We will update this post when we know for certain. What we do recommend is going to http://www.arubadag.com/ to listen to the press conference if you are interested. We have the best luck with channel Top 95 in the right hand corner of the page.

HAMMER - reading the front page posts, and from memory, the press release that one of the boys confessed was not until almost midnight on June 10, 2005.  The retractions came very shortly thereafter.

     
Reports Conflict in Case of Missing Ala. Teen
Saturday, June 11, 2005
ORANJESTAD, Aruba —  Reports conflicted Saturday in developments of the Alabama honor student who has been missing in Aruba for almost two weeks.

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.

However, Cruz later retracted the statement, saying he was a victim of a "misinformation campaign."

The mother of the 18-year-old told FOX News authorities had not yet contacted them with this information but did say that Natalee's father, who is divorced from her mother, was with investigators looking for the body.

These reports came after significant, and at times conflicting, developments with the five suspects being detained in the case.

The "Diario," a local daily newspaper, is reporting that a human blood sample found in a car at the residence of one of the teens in custody — the 17-year-old son of a high-ranking island judicuary official — is now being sent to the U.S. and will be tested for a possible match to Natalee, whose mother gave a blood sample to investigators.

But prosecutors refused to comment on the statement by Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig (search), who told The Associated Press that the man who made that admission was leading police to the scene. He refused to identify which of the three young men who took Holloway to a northern beach the night she went missing made the statement.

Police refused Saturday morning to say whether they discovered anything overnight to solve the mystery of what happened to Holloway, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30.

Referring to Dompig's statement, prosecution spokeswoman Vivian van der Biezen (search) said Saturday: "We neither confirm nor deny any information coming from other sources ... [about] alleged statements of suspects in this case."

"The investigation at the moment is the following: Five suspects are being held ... and we are at a very crucial, very important moment in our investigation," she said.

A judge ruled Saturday that police can continue to detain three young men — two Surinamese brothers and the Dutch teen — arrested in the disappearance of Holloway.

Police also have detained two other men — former security guards at a hotel near the one where Holloway was staying. No one has been charged in the case.

Holloway vanished during a five-day trip to the Dutch Caribbean island with 124 classmates and seven chaperones celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook, Ala., High School, near Birmingham. Police found her U.S. passport and packed bags in her hotel room after she failed to show up for her return flight that day.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber said on national radio Friday night that if something happened to Holloway, it would damage the reputation of this island of 97,000 people, which depends on tourism and is considered one of the safest spots in the Caribbean.

In Holloway's hometown, her friends gathered after midnight at a church where people have been holding prayer vigils for her. Some hugged and cried; one woman left a flickering candle at the base of a wall decorated with messages to Holloway, who had earned a full scholarship to the University of Alabama, where she planned to study medicine.

Antonio Carlo, an attorney for the Dutch minor, told the AP: "My client maintains his innocence."

Holloway's mother and stepfather told The Birmingham News in Alabama that they discovered the Dutch boy's connection to their daughter within 24 hours of her disappearance by talking to other students on the trip. They then found surveillance videotapes showing him playing poker with other Mountain Brook teens in their hotel casino two days before she vanished.

A lawyer for one of the Surinamese — Satish Kalpoe, 18, whose brother, Deepak, 21, also is in custody — said they told police they took Holloway to Arashi Beach, on the northern part of the island, in the early hours of May 30.

According to their police statement, they did not get out of the car, Carlo said. Instead, Holloway and the Dutch teen, an honors student at the Aruba International School whom she had met at the casino in her hotel, "were in the back seat kissing."

They also told police that they dropped Holloway at her Holiday Inn at about 2 a.m. and last saw her being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off, Kock said.

The brothers told police the blonde, blue-eyed young woman was drunk and refused to get out of the car, said Noraina Pietersz, who is representing Mickey John, 30, one of the two former security guards. He and Abraham Jones, 28, have been detained since Sunday.

The three young men said Holloway stumbled in the parking lot of the hotel but refused help from her Dutch escort, Kock said.

Holiday Inn employees say security cameras did not record Holloway's return. A Holiday Inn guard who worked the overnight shift that day said he did not see her, said Pietersz, who said she reviewed the guard's statement to police.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html

[Anna]

Klaas,
Also see May 31 statement of Joran vdSloot with attachment

"indicating an area"!  He told the beach tale leaving Kalpoes to tell the HI one making them look guilty.

IMO

.

Anna

From one of the later statements that Paulus made (I don't recall when), we know Paulus assisted Joran with his May 31st statement.

I bet before the Holloways arrived Joran had already told Depak that he, Joran ,was developing the beach story and had told Depak he had planted some shoes to prove he had been at the beach with Natalee. Remember, Depak mumbled something about the shoes when they all went back to the HI with the Holloway group. I'm beginning to think Joran took some shoes from the lost and found at the tennis club and planted them at the beach so he would have proof to back up his beach story. Couldn't find size 10 so he grabbed size 14.

After Joran double crosses 2K on the 31st with what I think is the beach story, what do the cops do? They arrest the security guards..........after Joran contradicts the HI story. WTH? I have to assume the story Joran told the ALE was he left her on the beach, he told 2K, 2K went back, raped her, and then took her back to the HI.

Anna, you seem to remember lots of details and there is something I wonder about. The night the Holloways arrived at the Sloot place there were two runs to the Hotel area by everyone right? The first was to go meet J2K. The second was to go back to the HI to look for Natalee. Do you know if anyone stayed behind at the Sloots to keep an eye out for any activity during either of those times?

I don't think Natalee was there the night they grabbed her, but I think she might have been there the night the Holloways arrived.
I tend to think all the digging last week by KLPD was to look for rags, garments, or residue from similar items that may have been quickly shoved underground the night he Holloways showed up just in case there would be a quick walk around or search of the property by ALE that night.

And isn't it interesting that Joran in his book now says he was with her for 3 hours so that his new story lines up with the admission Paulus made to the court about picking them up at 4 AM. Every time the ALE or KLPD let the sloots know of a new piece of evidence against them, they get to just change the story. I don't think Joran could have sex with girl for more than two minutes much less 3 hours. And the slime ball probably needs Viagra just for a two minute session.

Ado

DING DING DING DING!!![size=12][/size]


I think you just solved the missing shoe size problem completely!  Perhaps that walk to the beach was to establish other things alone the way for the cops to find as well, don't know.

BUT THAT IS THE BEST SHOE EXPLANATION I HAVE HEARD!!

 

.

[Tylergal]

June 10, 2005 Timing

Does someone know at what time the press picked up and reported the "something bad happened" AND did the news reports indicate when the Aruban authority made the statement ie what time of day on June 10, 2005?

Thanks.

.

It was at night, I was about to turn in because my daughter and I had to attend student orientation at the University of Alabama.  It was the second day of orientation and I knew this because, my daughter was in the same orientation group as some that knew Natalee.  This is one of the reasons I have been so hung up on this case.  It could have been my child.

It was around midnight on the day of 6/10 or early morning hours of 6/11. I had been to Birmingham and came home, had watched the 10 o'clock news (I am Central Time), and had flipped to Fox to see if there was any late "breaking news," and there was, so after 10:30 pm. CST.