Lively Case Discussion #614 5/5 - 5/6/2007

[nonesuche]

oh and I just had a delicious piece of leftover white pizza I don't need for lunch, but no cookie - not yet   the day is still early

[msmarple]

Hi CBB, I'm doing good sweet one and how are you? You've dressed everyone so well, I need to change to my new clothes too, I plan to get that done!

msmarples I just feel a need to dispel the confusion in my own mind - it wasn't directed as a slight to anyone, I'm going to email SB to ask, he was there for the meeting and I had heard from someone else there that Beth wasn't able to stay as long. I feel sure SB was listening and taking notes too.

None - None taken at all. (offense.)

Beth was not there for the daytime portion of the meeting. She was there for the Q&A, which was in the evening. Quite a few family members were there, especially during the evening.

[nonesuche]

msmarple were you able to go? I am going back thru emails I have now but I actually think the information I was given was afforded by phone? So much about this case is confusing but I also often wonder because to safeguard certain evidentiary pieces that much has to remain confidential? I dunno, it's Monday, maybe that's irking me  

[Silverfox]

The new clothes (avatar) looks nice... but can't see to get it to show at least on the profile page.... i tried each of the options including linking from my own website....

[Silverfox]

oh but aha ---- it shows here.... cool....

Thanks a lot....

i got change my smoking habits though -- this one seems hazardous to my health... heh heh

[crazybabyborg]

oh but aha ---- it shows here.... cool....

Thanks a lot....

i got change my smoking habits though -- this one seems hazardous to my health... heh heh

Uh-huh. It's the fourth of july's version of smoking crack!  

Get it? fireCRACKer?      

Just for the record,l I was out of coffee this morning.  

[klaasend]

[Nut44x4]

OK......one thing that bothers me about this video/casino/Paul thingy is that there were PLENTY of people around that table and witnesses......did anyone of THOSE peeps say it WAS HIM?? We do not need video to prove it....ASK the people who were at the damn table!! SIMPLE!!!

OK.......I guess what I am trying to say is...... (AND PLEASE DO NOT GET THE WRONG IDEA OF what I am trying to get at).......some Mt. brook teens were also at the table...ASK THEM IF IT WAS PAUL (paulus)........has anyone ever asked them if it was HIM!!>??.....surely by now they have see his pix enough to know whether or not it was PAUL at the damn table......should not be too hard to prove....plenty of witnesses...not like it was a one on one meet....does anyone get my point>??????

[Nut44x4]

the point I am trying to get at isn't ROCKET SCIENCE!! LOL........just ask peeps at the table that night. THERE were MANY peeps there!!

[msmarple]

msmarple were you able to go? I am going back thru emails I have now but I actually think the information I was given was afforded by phone? So much about this case is confusing but I also often wonder because to safeguard certain evidentiary pieces that much has to remain confidential? I dunno, it's Monday, maybe that's irking me  

Of course the evidentiary concern is a valid point. However, I *think* Beth might have just said "We can't comment about that" or something similar, rather than elaborating on her career, human vocalization, etc. (I mentioned that in a previous post.)

Art Wood chimed in on this, too. There were "squaking" or "screeching" sounds, and wind or maybe ocean roar, BUT NO WORDS ("human vocalization"). And I think Art is the one who said it was from a Florida area code.

And I know perfectly well that I - msmarple - specifically asked about "Who are these people?" and "Are you calling home?"  Never happened in any phone call that Beth, Dave, or Art Wood know about.

That's what they said.

[crazybabyborg]

Nut, I get it. You are right and I've had the thought as well. I will say that I'm not certain anyone would remember even if it was Paulus. Nat seemed to have a casual conversation with the man, but we can't ask her, and it was quite a while before anyone caught the older man in the video. I'm just not sure they could reliably remember if it was Paulus.

Does that make sense?

[crazybabyborg]

I've always the entrance and exit videos of that man at the table. They exist for Natalee and Joran, and they exist for that man. We could get a better look and be able to prove it one way or the other at that point.

[BTgirl]

Nut, I get it. You are right and I've had the thought as well. I will say that I'm not certain anyone would remember even if it was Paulus. Nat seemed to have a casual conversation with the man, but we can't ask her, and it was quite a while before anyone caught the older man in the video. I'm just not sure they could reliably remember if it was Paulus.

Does that make sense?

That's kind of what I was trying to say, CBB. When they're in a crowd, people tend to ignore most of the people around them. And when you're gambling, you tend to concentrate on that, not the other people. Unless there was something to make an individual stand out in the crowd, most people (especially teens) would not recall enough about a nondescript middle-aged man to know if he was who they saw that night or not, IMO.

[robots]

Nut, I get it. You are right and I've had the thought as well. I will say that I'm not certain anyone would remember even if it was Paulus. Nat seemed to have a casual conversation with the man, but we can't ask her, and it was quite a while before anyone caught the older man in the video. I'm just not sure they could reliably remember if it was Paulus.

Does that make sense?

That's kind of what I was trying to say, CBB. When they're in a crowd, people tend to ignore most of the people around them. And when you're gambling, you tend to concentrate on that, not the other people. Unless there was something to make an individual stand out in the crowd, most people (especially teens) would not recall enough about a nondescript middle-aged man to know if he was who they saw that night or not, IMO.

there was no need to notice a sweaty PIG sitting at the table with you
unless they commented on how GROSS he was  

[crazybabyborg]

Jossy has said that contrary to Joran's interview statement that Paulus was at the casino for the first time, Paulus often was at the casino. The lie alone tells me it was Paulus.

[Nut44x4]

another thing that has always bugged me about Joran's shoe size....anyone on the investigating peeps ever check his closet or rom to see what size his shoes are??.......why all the hype about the shoe size IF POLICE CHECKED HIS GOD DAMN CLOSET!! HELLOOOOoooooooooooooo.......Damn...sorry...I am almost at heart attack level here cause I am not even an investigator and I as a 'laymen...would check this shit....no?? DID ANYONE??

[robots]

another thing that has always bugged me about Joran's shoe size....anyone on the investigating peeps ever check his closet or rom to see what size his shoes are??.......why all the hype about the shoe size IF POLICE CHECKED HIS GOD DAMN CLOSET!! HELLOOOOoooooooooooooo.......Damn...sorry...I am almost at heart attack level here cause I am not even an investigator and I as a 'laymen...would check this shit....no?? DID ANYONE??

yes, see
that is the probelm, you nailed it

they NEVER followed up on anything

too many crack pipes in the ALE

[Peaches]

Nut, I get it. You are right and I've had the thought as well. I will say that I'm not certain anyone would remember even if it was Paulus. Nat seemed to have a casual conversation with the man, but we can't ask her, and it was quite a while before anyone caught the older man in the video. I'm just not sure they could reliably remember if it was Paulus.

Does that make sense?

I've seen a lot of sweaty, balding, middle aged men in bars.  Never was inclined to pay attention to them or who they may have resembled.  If I were 18 or 19, I would probably be looking right past them.  Not to mention that when on vacation, I seldom take notes on old sweaty men in bars.

[Peaches]

another thing that has always bugged me about Joran's shoe size....anyone on the investigating peeps ever check his closet or rom to see what size his shoes are??.......why all the hype about the shoe size IF POLICE CHECKED HIS GOD DAMN CLOSET!! HELLOOOOoooooooooooooo.......Damn...sorry...I am almost at heart attack level here cause I am not even an investigator and I as a 'laymen...would check this shit....no?? DID ANYONE??

I hear ya.......

[crazybabyborg]

another thing that has always bugged me about Joran's shoe size....anyone on the investigating peeps ever check his closet or rom to see what size his shoes are??.......why all the hype about the shoe size IF POLICE CHECKED HIS GOD DAMN CLOSET!! HELLOOOOoooooooooooooo.......Damn...sorry...I am almost at heart attack level here cause I am not even an investigator and I as a 'laymen...would check this shit....no?? DID ANYONE??

Yep. The fact that Joran has made SUCH an effort to confuse his shoe's whereabouts and the size he wears tells us that the shoes are a problem for him and an interest to anyone investigating this case. At this point, I don't think it really matters what size he wears. Depending on which statement you look at, it comes up a lie because the size is all over the place.

That's ONE of a whole litany of issues that JK2 should all be sitting in seperate cells to contemplate, until they can explain the inconsistancies.

But  FIRST, they have to be confronted with them!