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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #615 5/7 - 5/8/2007  (Read 131323 times)
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AZLady
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« Reply #120 on: May 07, 2007, 07:39:06 PM »

Hi Monkeys.    We do not know where the shoes were purchased.  I think it is reasonable to conclude that Anita may have ordered shoes on the web for her sons and from both Mexico and/or the US.  

I think everyone is disregarding the shoe size chart that was posted a couple days ago.  It's at http://www.shoesizeguy.com/.    

On this chart, a Mexican size 12 1/2 is equivalent to a US size 14 (male).  The chart also states this size shoe is 11 1/4" long.

Now, here's where it gets interesting.  A Mexican size 10 is equivalent to a US 11 1/2 (male) and US 13 (female).  The chart states this shoe is 11" long--only 1/4" shorter than the US size 14 (male).

So, I can see why the shoe size is inconsistent.  Perhaps the shoes he wore the night Natalee disappeared new and were size 14 (male) purchased in US and bought a bit large as he is growing and shoes are expensive.  He would have liked those shoes!  

Perhaps the shoes he had on in KIA were his old ones, maybe a year or so old, that Anita had purchased from Mexico online, and they showed a size 10 1/5-- just a bit smaller than the new ones he wore on May 29 which were purchased in a size a bit large and from the US.
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Anna
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« Reply #121 on: May 07, 2007, 07:39:58 PM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Well, I do believe the Dutch interrogator noticed a somewhat short forearm, therefore testing his shoe, and decided it is a 10 1/2.



Joran slammed the shoes on the counter when he was asked to remove them.  They were labeled.

For some reason, Joran was very upset.  His lawyer was present and refused to do anything to prevent them looking in his shoes and comparing the fit to his feet.

.


my 2 cents...

when joran was on greta and he pointed to his shoes and said "these are same type shoes i had on that night...and same size, too."

I KNEW HE WAS FULL OF IT



Me, too.  I think those were the very shoes he wore that night and he was gloating.

JMO

.
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Dayhiker
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« Reply #122 on: May 07, 2007, 07:40:32 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"

I don't think it is the shoe size that matters but the fact that Joran claimed to have left a pair at the Fisherman's Hut which he may have taken from the racket club, not even his own shoes.  He was trying to place physical evidence at the beach to lead away from the real crime scene by claiming to have left his shoes.

It would appear he planted a pair or one Size 14 to try to establish that he was really at the beach.  Too bad he couldn't find a pair the size he actually wore.  And too bad no one found them where he had put them to be found, prolly somebody stole them instead of turning them in as he had planned.

l



True, it is not the shoe size that matters, it's the lie. He perpetuated the size 14 K-swiss lie and eventually got trapped. Did anyone at the racquet club had their size 14 k-swiss shoes stolen as per Ado's theory?
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Rob
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« Reply #123 on: May 07, 2007, 07:42:27 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Spock"
PROCES - VERBAAL

We, Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Eric Louis SOEMERS, On Saturday, August 6, 2005, around 16:50, we interrogated the witness, OSMAN
Farouk OSMAN, director of Automotive Enterprises.

Quote
On your question if Deepak had told me how he knew that the missing American little girl Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the night time hours, had only her identification document (drivers license) and an amount of US $50, =, in her possession, I answer you the following: At absolutely no moment did Deepak tell me how he knew that missing little girl only had her identity card and US $50, =, in her possession. You must ask it to Deepak.

Really makes you wonder, where that statement came from.


It certainly does Spock.

Sounds like somebody was going through her pockets to me as I don't think she was carrying a purse.

Denim skirts fit much like jeans.  You can't just ram a big hand down in the pockets any more than jeans and the fabric doesn't give that much.

So why was Deepak not asked how he knew this?

Because ALE didn't want to know.  Or he was asked and we just don't have the statement with his answers?

Do we have all the Deepak statements requested by Dr. Phil?

Has anyone checked that we do in fact have them and Deepak was not asked about how he knew this?

.


I can prove he (Deepak) was there when she was either dead or unconscious. It's easy.

When Natalee was out, and maybe very out or dead, Deepak, and Joran looked at her license to see exactly who she was and where she was from... it's logical. And they knew right then, someone was going to be coming for her.

If you saw a person lying unconscious, the first thing you would do it see if the person is alive or dead. The you would look to see if the person has any ID.

It's natural. Every one would do the same thing.
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Tylergal
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« Reply #124 on: May 07, 2007, 07:43:21 PM »

Quote from: "Buckeye"
Got here just in time

Oldfart
It's your turn to size and  picture foot and forearm.  Yesterday's thread covered the rest of us.  Laughing

PVDS...could have left the poker tourn...and then returned for some blackjack.

Haley was the name of a bad cop.  If I was the FBI and thought there was a "girls bottle" behind the bar...I might send someone undercover to see...

Most of the kids go to school in FL.  I bet even Max Arends (who happens to be on the island) has a FL area code on his phone. But would those phones be Setar traceable??

IMO


I live in Alabama and my cell phone has a NY state area code.
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Anna
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« Reply #125 on: May 07, 2007, 07:43:22 PM »

Ado also suggested Lost and Found.

If it truly was only one shoe, maybe that is why.  There was only one in the Lost and Found section at the racket club, a place that wouldn't likely be locked and that he had access to as an intern there.

.
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blah
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« Reply #126 on: May 07, 2007, 07:43:40 PM »

its a scientific fact that talking about shoes too much can do this to you...

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blah
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« Reply #127 on: May 07, 2007, 07:45:09 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Well, I do believe the Dutch interrogator noticed a somewhat short forearm, therefore testing his shoe, and decided it is a 10 1/2.



Joran slammed the shoes on the counter when he was asked to remove them.  They were labeled.

For some reason, Joran was very upset.  His lawyer was present and refused to do anything to prevent them looking in his shoes and comparing the fit to his feet.

.


my 2 cents...

when joran was on greta and he pointed to his shoes and said "these are same type shoes i had on that night...and same size, too."

I KNEW HE WAS FULL OF IT



Me, too.  I think those were the very shoes he wore that night and he was gloating.

JMO

.


Why did she not ask him when/how did he get them back?  Stupid Greta could have nailed him to the wall on this but gave him a pass (and probably a little nookie too)
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Dayhiker
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« Reply #128 on: May 07, 2007, 07:45:42 PM »

Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Dayhiker"
Quote from: "Spock"
PROCES - VERBAAL

We, Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Eric Louis SOEMERS, On Saturday, August 6, 2005, around 16:50, we interrogated the witness, OSMAN
Farouk OSMAN, director of Automotive Enterprises.

Quote
On your question if Deepak had told me how he knew that the missing American little girl Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the night time hours, had only her identification document (drivers license) and an amount of US $50, =, in her possession, I answer you the following: At absolutely no moment did Deepak tell me how he knew that missing little girl only had her identity card and US $50, =, in her possession. You must ask it to Deepak.

Really makes you wonder, where that statement came from.



Good find, Spock. I'm damn curious as to how they knew to ask the  Automotive Enterprises guy ask that. Do we know when and why Deepak had his car in this person's shop?



Dayhiker-
And I haven't seen anywhere Deepak answers those questions as to how he knew those items were on Natalee's possession and how the AE guy knew those specific details..

let's flash back ~ he is worried the first nite the phone is bugged and the computer is being monitored, yet he tells the AE guy these important details?

Something else is not right here.



Deepak is no genius and gives away a lot in his statements. This one appears to be missing. But then he tells Skeeters the judges won't f*** with him because he "knows too much", that pretty much sums up the corruption angle, doesn't it?
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Rob
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« Reply #129 on: May 07, 2007, 07:46:18 PM »

Quote from: "AZLady"
Hi Monkeys.    We do not know where the shoes were purchased.  I think it is reasonable to conclude that Anita may have ordered shoes on the web for her sons and from both Mexico and/or the US.  

I think everyone is disregarding the shoe size chart that was posted a couple days ago.  It's at http://www.shoesizeguy.com/.    

On this chart, a Mexican size 12 1/2 is equivalent to a US size 14 (male).  The chart also states this size shoe is 11 1/4" long.

Now, here's where it gets interesting.  A Mexican size 10 is equivalent to a US 11 1/2 (male) and US 13 (female).  The chart states this shoe is 11" long--only 1/4" shorter than the US size 14 (male).

So, I can see why the shoe size is inconsistent.  Perhaps the shoes he wore the night Natalee disappeared new and were size 14 (male) purchased in US and bought a bit large as he is growing and shoes are expensive.  He would have liked those shoes!  

Perhaps the shoes he had on in KIA were his old ones, maybe a year or so old, that Anita had purchased from Mexico online, and they showed a size 10 1/5-- just a bit smaller than the new ones he wore on May 29 which were purchased in a size a bit large and from the US.


AZ, he also makes a statement to a Dutch Investigator that the shoes came from a fellow inmate... meaning the ones he was wearing... sounds like more BS.. what kind of inmate gives up his shoes. The last I heard of Joran jail time, it was marred by fight and kicking other inmates and he almost killed one.. from what I remember.
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Anna
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« Reply #130 on: May 07, 2007, 07:47:11 PM »

AZLady,
I am not ignoring the conversion chart for it is not a conversion issue but remember Deepak mentioned the SPORTS SHOES the very first night to one of the Alabama delegation.

Then he said he realized he should not have done that and told that person he was talking about something else.

I think they had already planted the Size 14 they got somewhere by the time the Alabama Delegation arrived.

This is the second part of their knowing they needed an alibi before Beth arrived.

That is what I think Joran had done with this walking to the casino in case somebody saw him there.  He may have been planting the shoes.  They were likely not even his so doesn't matter what size HIS feet are as those were not his shoes he planted to be found.  That was going to be his proof he left Natalee at the beach.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

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Observer
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« Reply #131 on: May 07, 2007, 07:47:16 PM »

Uk Womens size 11 are Equal to US mens size 13
http://www.kswiss.com/kswiss/sizechart.html
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oldfart
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« Reply #132 on: May 07, 2007, 07:47:38 PM »

Quote from: "Spock"
PROCES - VERBAAL

We, Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Eric Louis SOEMERS, On Saturday, August 6, 2005, around 16:50, we interrogated the witness, OSMAN
Farouk OSMAN, director of Automotive Enterprises.

Quote
On your question if Deepak had told me how he knew that the missing American little girl Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the night time hours, had only her identification document (drivers license) and an amount of US $50, =, in her possession, I answer you the following: At absolutely no moment did Deepak tell me how he knew that missing little girl only had her identity card and US $50, =, in her possession. You must ask it to Deepak.

Really makes you wonder, where that statement came from.


Out of left fleld  like a lot of questions seem too ???
Are they implying Deepak knew on May 30th  or that Natalee went missing on May 30th ??

Hi gang.... Just Taking a short mowing break
Just a question ... What difference what size shoe Joran wears?
When  (in statements that we have) does it 1st come up that he left his shoes on the beach?
JMO ...but seemed as one thing more Joran could add to the beach story.  That would make the ALE expend time on.
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Dayhiker
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« Reply #133 on: May 07, 2007, 07:48:01 PM »

Quote from: "blah"


Why did she not ask him when/how did he get them back?  Stupid Greta could have nailed him to the wall on this but gave him a pass (and probably a little nookie too)


LOL @ the nookie part. We needs to do an analysis of screencaps of Greta's face as the interview progresses. She's in heat by the end of it.
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LilPuma
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« Reply #134 on: May 07, 2007, 07:49:43 PM »

Another reason to vacation in the US, Canada and Australia which I found while surfing.  This might be the one that Dr. Baden commented on once on Greta's show, but I'm not sure.  

Bermuda rejects new bid for Middleton trial  
Published on Monday, May 7, 2007


HAMILTON, Bermuda (Reuters): Bermuda's chief justice rejected last week a new attempt by the parents of a murdered Canadian teenager to bring charges against suspects in the 10-year-old crime.

Represented by Cherie Booth, the barrister wife of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, the family of Rebecca Middleton had sought to have two suspects charged with sexual assault, abduction, and torture since earlier attempts to try them for murder were bungled.

But Chief Justice Richard Ground agreed with a decision by public prosecutors that to re-open the case would violate the British mid-Atlantic island's double jeopardy laws, which forbid courts to try suspects twice for the same crime.

"I appreciate that that will be a bitter disappointment to the applicant and other members of Rebecca's family, for whom I personally feel great sympathy, but I have to declare the law as it is," Ground said in the judgment.

Middleton, from Belleville, Ontario, was raped, tortured and stabbed to death on July 3, 1996, when she was 17.

No one was ever convicted for the crime.

One suspect, Kirk Orlando Mundy, struck a plea bargain deal in which he admitted to being an accessory after the fact and was sentenced to five years. The deal was struck before police had completed forensic tests which found Mundy's semen inside Rebecca's body.
The case against another suspect, Justis Raham Smith, collapsed after a judge in Bermuda said there was insufficient evidence.

Canadian tourists boycotted the island of 62,000 people, 560 miles east of the US state of North Carolina, in protest and the family has unsuccessfully fought for years for a retrial. Last July, Bermuda offered compensation of less than $3,000 to the family.

A lawyer for the family, John Riihiluoma, said they would appeal Justice Ground's decision to the Bermuda Court of Appeal.

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-1362--28-28--.html

If the Dutch are trying to do this right, I say give them a little time.  We've waited this long.
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Rob
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« Reply #135 on: May 07, 2007, 07:50:00 PM »

Yah Dayhiker- It ain't adding up on purpose!
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Anna
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« Reply #136 on: May 07, 2007, 07:50:02 PM »

Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Well, I do believe the Dutch interrogator noticed a somewhat short forearm, therefore testing his shoe, and decided it is a 10 1/2.



Joran slammed the shoes on the counter when he was asked to remove them.  They were labeled.

For some reason, Joran was very upset.  His lawyer was present and refused to do anything to prevent them looking in his shoes and comparing the fit to his feet.

.


my 2 cents...

when joran was on greta and he pointed to his shoes and said "these are same type shoes i had on that night...and same size, too."

I KNEW HE WAS FULL OF IT



Me, too.  I think those were the very shoes he wore that night and he was gloating.

JMO

.


Why did she not ask him when/how did he get them back?  Stupid Greta could have nailed him to the wall on this but gave him a pass (and probably a little nookie too)


He said oh, not these but a pair just like them that I left on the beach with Natalee.   Rolling Eyes
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Easywriter
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« Reply #137 on: May 07, 2007, 07:51:46 PM »

What I took away from the whole shoe size controversy was that ALE had a size 10.5 in their possession and Joran was claiming to wear a size 14.  The Dutch cop called him on it and caught him in another lie.  But, then what?  Nothing as usual……
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adoronron
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« Reply #138 on: May 07, 2007, 07:52:39 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Well, I do believe the Dutch interrogator noticed a somewhat short forearm, therefore testing his shoe, and decided it is a 10 1/2.



Joran slammed the shoes on the counter when he was asked to remove them.  They were labeled.

For some reason, Joran was very upset.  His lawyer was present and refused to do anything to prevent them looking in his shoes and comparing the fit to his feet.

.


my 2 cents...

when joran was on greta and he pointed to his shoes and said "these are same type shoes i had on that night...and same size, too."

I KNEW HE WAS FULL OF IT



Me, too.  I think those were the very shoes he wore that night and he was gloating.
JMO

.


Anna,
I agree 100%

Ado
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blah
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« Reply #139 on: May 07, 2007, 07:53:08 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"

He said oh, not these but a pair just like them that I left on the beach with Natalee.   Rolling Eyes


did she check the size of the ones he had on?
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