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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #615 5/7 - 5/8/2007  (Read 139441 times)
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Leslie
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« Reply #500 on: May 08, 2007, 06:59:25 AM »

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl
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« Reply #501 on: May 08, 2007, 07:40:33 AM »

This is the document I was talking about last night.  The list of applicants appears to be members of the Van Der Sloot clan.

*****************************

 AS TO THE ADMISSIBILITY OF

                      Application No. 15596/89
                      by Allegonda VAN DER SLOOT and others
                      against the Netherlands


      The European Commission of Human Rights (Second Chamber) sitting
in private on 1 July 1992, the following members being present:

             MM.  S. TRECHSEL, President of the Second Chamber
                  G. JÖRUNDSSON
                  A. WEITZEL
                  J.-C. SOYER
                  H. G. SCHERMERS
                  H. DANELIUS
             Mrs. G. H. THUNE
             MM.  F. MARTINEZ
                  L. LOUCAIDES
                  J.-C. GEUS


             Mr.  K. ROGGE, Secretary to the Second Chamber


      Having regard to Article 25 of the Convention for the Protection
of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms;

      Having regard to the application introduced on 22 June 1989 by
Allegonda VAN DER SLOOT and others against the Netherlands and
registered on 10 October 1989 under file No. 15596/89;

      Having regard to the report provided for in Rule 47 of the Rules
of Procedure of the Commission;

      Having deliberated;

      Decides as follows:


THE FACTS

      The applicants are 15 inhabitants of Boxtel, 3 inhabitants of
Vught, 1 inhabitant of Sassenheim, 1 inhabitant of Best, 1 inhabitant
of Tilburg, an environmental association with its registered seat in
Den Dungen and a residence association with its registered seat in
Boxtel, the Netherlands.  Their names are appended (Appendix I).

      Before the Commission the applicants are represented by Mr.
P.A.P.J. van der Sloot, a lawyer practising in Boxtel.

      The facts of the case as submitted by the applicants may be
summarised as follows.

      On 24 May 1973 the Municipal Council (Gemeenteraad) of Boxtel,
departing from the existing zoning plan, adopted the zoning plan
"Stapelen", in which a road was planned through the recreational and
scenic nature area "De Vorstakkers".  Following objections by some of
the applicants, the Crown, by Royal Decree (Koninklijke Besluit) of 11
August 1976, refused to approve the part of the zoning plan which
concerned that road.

      On 23 May 1984 the Municipal Council of Boxtel, after having
considered the applicants' objections concerning, inter alia, expected
pollution, noise and stench, adopted the zoning plan "Zuidelijke
Hoofdweg", in which again a road was planned through "De Vorstakkers".
After having considered the applicants' objections against this new
plan, the Provincial Executive (Gedeputeerde Staten) of Noord-Brabant
approved the new zoning plan in its decision of 27 March 1985. The
applicants subsequently appealed to the Crown.

      In the proceedings before the Crown, the Administrative
Litigation Division of the Council of State (Afdeling geschillen van
bestuur van de Raad van State) advised the Crown on 27 July 1987 and
18 April 1988 to quash the decision of 27 March 1985 by the Provincial
Executive and to withhold approval of the zoning plan.

      The Crown, in its Royal Decree of 28 December 1988, partially
quashed the decision of the Provincial Executive, but the plan for the
road was upheld.

      In order to start the construction of the road, pending the
approval of the entire zoning plan "Zuidelijke Hoofdweg", so-called
anticipation proceedings were started.

      By decision of 18 March 1986 the Provincial Executive of Noord-
Brabant granted the Municipal Executive (Burgemeester en Wethouders)
of Boxtel a declaration of non-objection (verklaring van geen bezwaar)
concerning the first construction phase of the road.  Some of the
applicants filed objections against this decision, which the Provincial
Executive rejected on 16 September 1986.  These applicants subsequently
appealed to the Judicial Division of the Council of State (Afdeling
Rechtspraak van de Raad van State).

      By decision of 6 May 1986 the Municipal Executive of Boxtel, on
the basis of the above declaration of non-objection, granted the
Municipality of Boxtel an exemption from the conditions of the zoning
plan in force concerning the construction of a specific section of the
road.

      The objections by some of the applicants against this exemption
were rejected by the Municipal Executive of Boxtel on 15 April 1987.
These applicants subsequently appealed to the Judicial Division.

      The Judicial Division joined the appeals against the decisions
of 16 September 1986 and 15 April 1987 and on 26 February 1990 quashed
both decisions.  The Judicial Division held, inter alia, that the
authorities at issue, after having balanced the interests involved,
could not reasonably have reached their decisions.  The Judicial
Division considered that, at the time these decisions were taken, there
were serious doubts on the Crown's approval of the proposed zoning
plan, taking into account that, in respect of the road, it was quite
similar to the "Stapelen" zoning plan, the approval of which had been
refused by the Crown on 11 August 1976.

      The Municipality of Boxtel had, with a view to the construction
of the road, also started expropriation proceedings against three of
the applicants. The expropriation was pronounced by the Regional Court
(Arrondissementsrechtbank) of 's-Hertogenbosch by judgment of 2 October
1987.  On appeal, the Supreme Court (Hoge Raad) in its decision of 25
May 1988 quashed the judgment of the Regional Court and referred the
case back to the Regional Court.

      By judgment of 10 November 1989 the Regional Court of 's-
Hertogenbosch refused the request for expropriation by the Municipality
of Boxtel.

      On 10 September 1990 the Municipal Council of Boxtel, upon a
proposal by the Municipal Executive, decided to abandon the plans for
the construction of the road at issue and to end all related
proceedings. The Municipal Council subsequently started proceedings in
order to revoke the Royal Decree of 28 December 1988, which proceedings
are still pending.


COMPLAINTS

      The applicants originally complained under Article 6 para. 1 of
the Convention that the Crown, in the determination of their civil
rights and obligations, was not an independent and impartial tribunal,
that the reasonable time had been exceeded as the proceedings at issue
started already in 1973 and the outcome was still not clear and that
the principle of "ne bis in idem" had not been respected in that the
proceedings on the plan of the road were re-opened in the second set
of administrative proceedings on the zoning plan.

      Following the Municipality's decision of 10 September 1990 to
abandon the plans for the construction of the road and to end all
related proceedings, the applicants have maintained their complaint
concerning the length of the proceedings, including the legal costs
involved. They acknowledge that they could claim compensation but
submit that they would thereby risk further lengthy proceedings.


THE LAW

      The applicants originally complained under Article 6 para. 1
(Art. 6-2) of the Convention that their civil rights and obligations
have not been determined within a reasonable time by an independent and
impartial tribunal and that the principle of "ne bis in idem" has not
been respected.

      Article 6 para. 1 (Art. 6-1) of the Convention, insofar as
relevant, provides as follows:

      "In the determination of his civil rights and obligations
      (...), everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing
      within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial
      tribunal established by law."

      The Commission observes that the applicants were involved in
proceedings concerning a zoning plan envisaging the construction of a
road.

      The Commission notes under Article 25 (Art. 25) of the Convention
that on 10 September 1990 the Municipality of Boxtel abandoned its
plans for the construction of the road at issue and all related
proceedings, but that so far no final decision to revoke the Royal
Decree of 28 December 1988 has been taken.

      The Commission further observes in respect of Article 26
(Art. 26) of the Convention that the applicants have not sought
compensation for the costs they incurred in the proceedings at issue.

      However, even assuming that the applicants can be considered as
victims within the meaning of Article 25 (Art. 25) of the Convention
and have exhausted all domestic remedies within the meaning of Article
26 (Art. 26) of the Convention, the Commission considers that the
proceedings at issue on the adoption of a new zoning plan envisaging
the construction of a road did not, in the particular circumstances of
the present case, determine any civil rights or obligations within the
meaning of Article 6 para. 1 (Art. 6-1) of the Convention (cf. mutatis
mutandis No. 11844/85, Dec. 29.2.88, D.R. 55 p. 205).

      It follows that the application is incompatible ratione materiae
with the provisions of the Convention within the meaning of Article 27
para. 2 (Art. 27-2) of the Convention.

      For these reasons, the Commission, unanimously

      DECLARES THE APPLICATION INADMISSIBLE.

Secretary to the Second Chamber       President of the Second Chamber

        (K. ROGGE)                           (S. TRECHSEL)

                              APPENDIX  I

                        List of the applicants

1)  Allegonda   VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1947, residing in Boxtel;

2)  Freek       VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1971, residing in Boxtel;

3)  Ingrid      VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1968, residing in Boxtel;

4)  Marinus     VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1941, residing in Boxtel;

5)  Bernardus   MAAS,          born in 1909, residing in Boxtel;

6)  Lamberdina  VAN DE SANDE,  born in 1936, residing in Boxtel;

7)  Johannes    VAN DE SANDE,  born in 1938, residing in Vught;

Cool  Wilhelmus   VAN LEEUWEN,   born in 1925, residing in Sassenheim;

9)  Adriana     VAN DER SLOOT-
                VAN KRIEKEN,   born in 1911, residing in Boxtel;

10) Marjo       VAN DE SANDE,  born in 1968, residing in Vught;

11) Cornelis    VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1929, residing in Boxtel;

12) Johannes    SPOOR,         born in 1944, residing in Best;

13) Cornelia    SPOOR,         born in 1942, residing in Boxtel;

14) Henricus    KLIJN,         born in 1955, residing in Tilburg;

15) Gerarda     KLIJN,         born in 1955, residing in Boxtel;

16) Lambertus   VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1942, residing in Boxtel;

17) Johannes    DOMS,          born in 1943, residing in Boxtel;

18) Marie       VAN DE SANDE,  born in 1966, residing in Vught;

19) Petrus      VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1947, residing in Boxtel;

20) Johannes    VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1933, residing in Boxtel;

21) Paulus      VAN DER SLOOT, born in 1952, residing in Boxtel;

22) Milieuvereniging "Het Groene Hart" with its registered seat in Den
    Dungen;

23) Bewonersvereniging Eindhovenseweg Liempdseweg with its registered
seat in Boxtel.
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« Reply #502 on: May 08, 2007, 07:52:02 AM »

Morning Easy... my favorite is "Freek Van der Sloot".... that pretty much sums up that gene pool.... Have a great day!
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« Reply #503 on: May 08, 2007, 08:09:45 AM »

Quote from: "Anna"


Robots,

I see your sneaky little tiny writing.  You still just don't understand about the shoes and have it totally backwards!

If Joran were going to change tags, he would change them to make the shoes 14's and NOT 10.5's!  

But if you don't get it after sixty pages, it is time to move on.  It doesn't matter what size shoe he actually wore, he had put the 14's to be found on the beach.  He got caught planting evidence and before Beth arrived according to Deepak already mentioning sports shoes that night.

I don't know any more ways to explain it.  Maybe it will just click one of these days for you and you will get it.

Moving along. . .

.



we dont know anything positively as FACT concerning the shoes
we dont know, we just dont know, we dont know


i know what you are saying i have read it 18 times

unless he was trying to blame someone else like a K2 brother

he may never have tried planting anything on the beech... i dont think he was ever on the beech with natalee nor was he on the beech planting shoes.. they are stuck in mud somewhere and even that we dont know
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Easywriter
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« Reply #504 on: May 08, 2007, 08:31:58 AM »

*** I'ts Hot!  It's New!  It's Sweeping Holland! ***


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Rob
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« Reply #505 on: May 08, 2007, 08:44:29 AM »

Quote from: "wreck"
One of my theories for a long time has been that this whole mess goes WAY up the line -- all the way to the US State Department and The Hague.  
It became very clear to these two entities that the Aruban Government was in this up to their eyeballs.
You just can't go in and bring down the entire government of a country without a LOT of wrangling and planning by BOTH the U.S. and The Netherlands. Remember, Aruba is still very much teetering with their own Sovereignty issues. Throw in Chavez in the mix and you have a very precarious situation there.
While justice in the Natalee Holloway case is a concern -- unfortunately the whole Sovereignty issue is what is driving the involvement of the Dutch.
( my theory is this will all be resolved eventually -- but it will be HUGE in the aftermath)  Shocked  Question  Shocked


Good Morning Everyone...

My opinion on this is ~ This case has put Aruba in a very precarious position. The longer the case goes on the bigger risk that ARUBA is LOST to Chavez.

Anyone who understands foreign ploicy realizes it is better to get rid of the problem as soon as possible, (hence the CIA's three attempts to over throw Chavez in his early day) than to wait and allow a major coup through either bad economic times and / or strife.

After two years, Aruba is easier to pick off than should this case have been concluded in the first few weeks.
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« Reply #506 on: May 08, 2007, 09:11:57 AM »

Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "wreck"
One of my theories for a long time has been that this whole mess goes WAY up the line -- all the way to the US State Department and The Hague.  
It became very clear to these two entities that the Aruban Government was in this up to their eyeballs.
You just can't go in and bring down the entire government of a country without a LOT of wrangling and planning by BOTH the U.S. and The Netherlands. Remember, Aruba is still very much teetering with their own Sovereignty issues. Throw in Chavez in the mix and you have a very precarious situation there.
While justice in the Natalee Holloway case is a concern -- unfortunately the whole Sovereignty issue is what is driving the involvement of the Dutch.
( my theory is this will all be resolved eventually -- but it will be HUGE in the aftermath)  Shocked  Question  Shocked


Good Morning Everyone...

My opinion on this is ~ This case has put Aruba in a very precarious position. The longer the case goes on the bigger risk that ARUBA is LOST to Chavez.

Anyone who understands foreign ploicy realizes it is better to get rid of the problem as soon as possible, (hence the CIA's three attempts to over throw Chavez in his early day) than to wait and allow a major coup through either bad economic times and / or strife.

After two years, Aruba is easier to pick off than should this case have been concluded in the first few weeks.


EXACTLY!!
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« Reply #507 on: May 08, 2007, 09:13:58 AM »

Ever notice how some people on some message boards just canít deal with the reality of this case and immediately try to shift attention away from their favorite son?  It is such a repetitive process that it has become laughable.  None of them can read Joranís words and admit that the kid is one big time loser with some serious psychological problems.  They donít even bother to try and defend his words.  They just start to take swings at the victimís family.  Itís interestingÖÖ.
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« Reply #508 on: May 08, 2007, 09:23:05 AM »

Quote from: "Easywriter"
Ever notice how some people on some message boards just canít deal with the reality of this case and immediately try to shift attention away from their favorite son?  It is such a repetitive process that it has become laughable.  None of them can read Joranís words and admit that the kid is one big time loser with some serious psychological problems.  They donít even bother to try and defend his words.  They just start to take swings at the victimís family.  Itís interestingÖÖ.


It is quite funny actually.. If it wasn't so sad.  Ya see, Joran is telling the truth that he lies all the time so his lies really don't count because he admits he lies.   Rolling Eyes   Twisted Evil
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« Reply #509 on: May 08, 2007, 09:24:00 AM »

Quote from: "Spock"
I don't think I can take anymore discussion of the shoes, where have been on that for sixty pages. Shocked


A monkey after my own heart.......

How 'bout these shoes?  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M88saV46Nks

Don't blame me.  I got it from my kid.  It's important to know what they're doing!  

Shoes!  Let's get 'em!

Good morning.   Still trying to catch up.......I guess my sole is distracted..
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« Reply #510 on: May 08, 2007, 09:30:43 AM »

Quote from: "Kimmy53"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Ever notice how some people on some message boards just canít deal with the reality of this case and immediately try to shift attention away from their favorite son?  It is such a repetitive process that it has become laughable.  None of them can read Joranís words and admit that the kid is one big time loser with some serious psychological problems.  They donít even bother to try and defend his words.  They just start to take swings at the victimís family.  Itís interestingÖÖ.


It is quite funny actually.. If it wasn't so sad.  Ya see, Joran is telling the truth that he lies all the time so his lies really don't count because he admits he lies.   Rolling Eyes   Twisted Evil


Yep, only in that strange world could lying be a defense for lying.  This kid is worse than a liar.  He is a jerk and he makes it sound like he has screwed over anyone and everyone that has come in contact with him.
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« Reply #511 on: May 08, 2007, 09:33:19 AM »

Quote from: "Easywriter"
Ever notice how some people on some message boards just canít deal with the reality of this case and immediately try to shift attention away from their favorite son?  It is such a repetitive process that it has become laughable.  None of them can read Joranís words and admit that the kid is one big time loser with some serious psychological problems.  They donít even bother to try and defend his words.  They just start to take swings at the victimís family.  Itís interestingÖÖ.


I feel bad for someone with problems... but his parents neglected those problems and allowed what happened to happen.

We all have problems....seeing a psychologist isn't the stigma it once was.

Not everyone who sees a psychologist is a mental case. But is more commonly someone that doesn't have the answers to the problems they face. Anything can bring on psychological problems.. death of a loved one, a divorce, loss of a job, all kinds of stuff... even the loss of a pet.

In a way it is a sign of strength to get help and deal with your problems instead of shucking them on others and allowing all kinds of bad things to happen because someone is not able to deal with perception that others may view them poorly.

In Joran's case, he just decides he does not want to be bothered. He could care less what others think about him.
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« Reply #512 on: May 08, 2007, 09:37:36 AM »

Quote from: "Kimmy53"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Ever notice how some people on some message boards just canít deal with the reality of this case and immediately try to shift attention away from their favorite son?  It is such a repetitive process that it has become laughable.  None of them can read Joranís words and admit that the kid is one big time loser with some serious psychological problems.  They donít even bother to try and defend his words.  They just start to take swings at the victimís family.  Itís interestingÖÖ.


It is quite funny actually.. If it wasn't so sad.  Ya see, Joran is telling the truth that he lies all the time so his lies really don't count because he admits he lies.   Rolling Eyes   Twisted Evil


I agree with both of you.This book is a slap in the face to those who have been defending Joran,but they keep on defending him.
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« Reply #513 on: May 08, 2007, 09:39:47 AM »

Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Ever notice how some people on some message boards just canít deal with the reality of this case and immediately try to shift attention away from their favorite son?  It is such a repetitive process that it has become laughable.  None of them can read Joranís words and admit that the kid is one big time loser with some serious psychological problems.  They donít even bother to try and defend his words.  They just start to take swings at the victimís family.  Itís interestingÖÖ.


I feel bad for someone with problems... but his parents neglected those problems and allowed what happened to happen.

We all have problems....seeing a psychologist isn't the stigma it once was.

Not everyone who sees a psychologist is a mental case. But is more commonly someone that doesn't have the answers to the problems they face. Anything can bring on psychological problems.. death of a loved one, a divorce, loss of a job, all kinds of stuff... even the loss of a pet.

In a way it is a sign of strength to get help and deal with your problems instead of shucking them on others and allowing all kinds of bad things to happen because someone is not able to deal with perception that others may view them poorly.

In Joran's case, he just decides he does not want to be bothered. He could care less what others think about him.


That's because he thinks he is the center of the universe!

His parents sure went all out to enable the kid and make excuses for his bad behavior.  I wonder how his brothers are getting along with others in school, etc.
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« Reply #514 on: May 08, 2007, 09:39:58 AM »

Morning monkeys.....I know why Joran was sent to the "apartment" when he was 14/15....he kept the "big house" in constant turmoil....so...some part of the day the family pretended as though he did not exist...out of sight, out of mind...the kids were safe, the money was safe, no one had to deal with any of his issues....JMHO
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« Reply #515 on: May 08, 2007, 09:40:18 AM »

Hey it looks like Mr. Ramirez gave a gave a statement on 6-2-2005.

Anyone have any idea what he said?
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« Reply #516 on: May 08, 2007, 09:43:53 AM »

Easy:  "That's because he thinks he is the center of the universe!

His parents sure went all out to enable the kid and make excuses for his bad behavior"....


Your are absolutely correct.....and he did not want to tell his story to
the ALE....he wanted to tell it to the WORLD.....!
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« Reply #517 on: May 08, 2007, 09:45:08 AM »

Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
Quote from: "Kimmy53"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Ever notice how some people on some message boards just canít deal with the reality of this case and immediately try to shift attention away from their favorite son?  It is such a repetitive process that it has become laughable.  None of them can read Joranís words and admit that the kid is one big time loser with some serious psychological problems.  They donít even bother to try and defend his words.  They just start to take swings at the victimís family.  Itís interestingÖÖ.


It is quite funny actually.. If it wasn't so sad.  Ya see, Joran is telling the truth that he lies all the time so his lies really don't count because he admits he lies.   Rolling Eyes   Twisted Evil


I agree with both of you.This book is a slap in the face to those who have been defending Joran,but they keep on defending him.


I wonder if he will have any chapters dealing with crazy American women that have come to visit and given their support?   Laughing
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« Reply #518 on: May 08, 2007, 09:48:22 AM »

Quote from: "MeMere"
Easy:  "That's because he thinks he is the center of the universe!

His parents sure went all out to enable the kid and make excuses for his bad behavior"....


Your are absolutely correct.....and he did not want to tell his story to
the ALE....he wanted to tell it to the WORLD.....!


He is proud of his accomplishments and enjoys the notoriety.  He will need to feed that inner demon again one of these days.....
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« Reply #519 on: May 08, 2007, 09:49:15 AM »

Book chapters - I've highlighted the chapters already summarized by Ramm:


Inhoud
Contents

Woord vooraf 9
Forword 9

Inleiding 12
Introduction 12

1 Island boy 15
2 Een Amerikaanse school op Aruba 26 An American School on Aruba

3 Uitgaan in Carlos 'n Charlie's 35 Going out to Carlos and Charlie's

4 De pimps 45 The Pimps

5 Vriendinnen 50 Girlfriends

6 Gokken 58 Gambling


7 Natalee Holloway 63 Natalee Holloway

8 Joran ontmoet Natalee 76 Joran meets Natalee

9 De leugens 96 The Lies

10 Gearresteerd 137 Arrested

11 Doorbraak door beste vriend Freddy 152 Break ( in the case) because of best friend Freddy

12 Niet Deepak, maar Satish haalde Joran op 163 Not Deepak, but Satish picked up Joran

13 Jeugdafdeling van de KIA 174 Youth Department of KIA

14 Geslagen door de politie 194 Hit by the police

15 Rechercheurs uit Nederland 217 Detectives from Holland

16 Halsoverkop naar Nederland 239 In a hurry to Holland

17 Twee nieuwe verdachten 243 Two new suspects

18 In de val gelokt 257 Lured into a trap

19 Het ABC-interview 275 The ABC - Interview

20 Topadvocaat Joe Tacopina 287 Top Lawyer Joe Tacopina

21 De hetze van de Amerikaanse pers 294 The smear campaign of the American Press

22 De inbraak en Peter R. de Vries 310 The burglary and Peter R. de Vries

23 TheorieŽn 325 Theories
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