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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #616 5/8 - 5/10/2007  (Read 155185 times)
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greeneyedlady
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« Reply #840 on: May 10, 2007, 09:42:35 AM »

Don't know if this has been posted yet,but I see Ramm has finished translating ch. 7 of Joran's book:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0
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« Reply #841 on: May 10, 2007, 09:50:19 AM »

Quote from: "Peaches"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone here feeling the pain for OJ tonight?  He got kicked out of a steakhouse and is trying to play the race card.  Bless his cold, cold heart…..


I am proud of this Jeff Ruby and proud he's in our country, one has to wonder why Aruba would so willingly allow the sporter and paulus as well as Anita and K2 to ramble about unfettered?  Rolling Eyes

OJ has to deflect the truth, it's his ingrained modus operandi...


I believe Mr. Ruby has a right to refuse service to anyone.  And somebody slap Yale Galanter!  This isn't about race.  It's about getting away with murder and then rubbing people's noses in it.  

Good morning.

Good Morning Yall!
Either this weekend or next, I’m driving down to Lancaster, KY to pick up some white cedar log furniture from Rocky Top Log Furniture for my screened porch.  To get there and back I have to drive thru Louisville.  I plan to stop by this restaurant to eat and shake this guys hand.
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Kimmy53
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« Reply #842 on: May 10, 2007, 09:55:39 AM »

Quote from: "IndyDan"
Quote from: "Peaches"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone here feeling the pain for OJ tonight?  He got kicked out of a steakhouse and is trying to play the race card.  Bless his cold, cold heart…..


I am proud of this Jeff Ruby and proud he's in our country, one has to wonder why Aruba would so willingly allow the sporter and paulus as well as Anita and K2 to ramble about unfettered?  Rolling Eyes

OJ has to deflect the truth, it's his ingrained modus operandi...


I believe Mr. Ruby has a right to refuse service to anyone.  And somebody slap Yale Galanter!  This isn't about race.  It's about getting away with murder and then rubbing people's noses in it.  

Good morning.

Good Morning Yall!
Either this weekend or next, I’m driving down to Lancaster, KY to pick up some white cedar log furniture from Rocky Top Log Furniture for my screened porch.  To get there and back I have to drive thru Louisville.  I plan to stop by this restaurant to eat and shake this guys hand.


I'm telling you - I CHEER this fellow too.  It is all to often people are afraid to stand up for what they believe in this politically correct world.   Tell him us monkeys applaud him for his stance!!!!
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« Reply #843 on: May 10, 2007, 09:55:48 AM »

Quote from: "Hotshot"
Go here to see video...  Horcamento na Kijkuit Post Bubali Plas ...Just another hanging in Aruba
http://www.24ora.com/


Jossy tells me that the DIARIO has a good working relationship with 24ora and he has spoken with the owners very recently.  He also says that they keep about seven photographers in the streets of Aruba all the time.

I think it would be worthwhile for people to email them (info@24ora.com) and let them know there is interest in an English version of their publication.  Registering with them will also get you news alerts, etc. (www.24ora.com)

We have all been wanting something like this, right?
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Lifesong
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« Reply #844 on: May 10, 2007, 09:56:13 AM »

Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
Don't know if this has been posted yet,but I see Ramm has finished translating ch. 7 of Joran's book:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0



Good morning all!

Can someone copy it over here?  I registered at BFN, but have to wait for approval so I can't read it.  Been waiting a couple of days for this one, eh?

TYIA!!
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Hotshot
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« Reply #845 on: May 10, 2007, 09:57:03 AM »

Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Hotshot"
Go here to see video...  Horcamento na Kijkuit Post Bubali Plas ...Just another hanging in Aruba
http://www.24ora.com/


Jossy tells me that the DIARIO has a good working relationship with 24ora and he has spoken with the owners very recently.  He also says that they keep about seven photographers in the streets of Aruba all the time.

I think it would be worthwhile for people to email them (info@24ora.com) and let them know there is interest in an English version of their publication.  Registering with them will also get you news alerts, etc. (www.24ora.com)

We have all been wanting something like this, right?

Excellent idea!
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Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.
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« Reply #846 on: May 10, 2007, 09:57:11 AM »

Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
Don't know if this has been posted yet,but I see Ramm has finished translating ch. 7 of Joran's book:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0

Posted by Ramm at BFN:

First this, this is going to be a pretty short chapter because most things are already well known to the avid followers of the case so there will not be a lot of surprises in it. The first part handles Natalee's life up to the trip and then there will be a short piece regarding the trip up to the point she meets Joran.

CHAPTER 7 - NATALEE HOLLOWAY

page 1:

- most of this page is about where Natalee was born, where she grew up (Clinton Miss.), the fact that she has a brother, when her parents split up (1993), when Dave gets re-married (1995), it mentions Robin as his current wife and the fact that they have 2 kids (names are mentioned in the book but there are not of interest so I am going to forgo them), talks about the custody (when Natalee goes to stay with her father because they live with Beth).

- then there is a part of an interview published in the Clinton View News on the 16th of June 2005 in which youth friend Mary Elizabeth Davis comments on her 15 year friendship with Natalee in which she says that Natalee was very sweet but also a bit gullible/naive/stupid and that she was an avid shopper

- then more about Natalee's childhood, about them playing boardgames, painting nails, childlike mischief (messing with her brothers toy cars), her love of barbie dolls and especially barbie clothes, her later love of Lipgloss Lip Smackers, her getting to befriend Brooke Thomas (with whom Natalee shares the passion for dance).
page 2 + 3:

- Brooke mentions that Natalee often visited her house and that Natalee thought her big brother was cool

- Mary Reeves (former babysitter) describes Natalee as vibrant and lively, it tells about Natalee's rich fantasy and about a button on a chest that would produce Kool aid when pressed

- then it talks about Natalee joining a prayer group with some friends, it talks about Natalee always being the girl who had the most things to pray about (like boys she liked, boys she did not like, for the junior-high school dance performances, etc.).

- then J. Reeves, principle of her former Junior High and a neighbor describes Natalee as bright with a good set of brains. She was always quiet at school and did not want the rest of the kids to know that she knew the headmaster.

- it also mentions that Natalee's friends noticed the close bond of friendship that Beth and Natalee shared.

- then comes the marriage of Beth and Jug and Natalee's move to Mountain Brook where Beth goes to teach. Natalee starts in the 8th grade of Junior High in MB and becomes friends with Madison (real name is mentioned but not important here for the summary), Madison and Natalee become inseparable and go on to MB high school together.

- according to Beth Natalee is the typical American Teen: dancing in the MB dance team and with dancing lessons she achieves that goal, it also mentions Natalee and Madison are in advanced classes.

- then an anecdote straight from Dave's book about Natalee when young breaking her arm while dancing (this to illustrate the passion for dance from a young age)

- mentions Natalee's membership of the math club and spanish club, part-time job and volunteer work, mentions her joining the bible club at her new school and mentions her hobbies as dancing, swimming and shopping.

- favorite movie = Wizard of Oz, talks about statuettes of the movie in her room and the Wizard of Oz cake given by her mom for her 18th. Natalee also likes Lynyrd Skynyrd

- it mentions that Natalee was popular, has lot's of friends and is well respected by her peers. She is an intelligent and driven girl who wants to make something of her future. Also mentions the grant for after the summer.
page 4 and 5:

- talks about Natalee wanting to study medicine at the Uni of Alabama

- talks about Beth having no problem with Natalee's trip to Aruba and then printed are some excerpts of the Vanity fair article in which it is written that Natalee had had a sheltered upbringing, that Natalee NEVER drank, never had a boyfriend and had never had sex. Beth wrote that Natalee was smart but also very naive.

- then talks about Jug's son being on Aruba 2 years earlier, about the 2 stepnephews that were also going to be on the trip (mentions that Natalee was not close to them)

- says that Dave was not happy with the planned trip. Talks about the fact that Dave wrote in his book that he tried to dissuade Natalee from going. It is written that Dave did not like the idea of so many students and so little supervision. He also thinks 985$ for that short a trip is a bit pricey but in the end relents and agrees to pay half the trip (even though he and Robin still had serious reservations about it) as a present for her graduation.

- then comes the story about her graduation and the ceremony that comes 2 days before they leave. Talks about the extra effort Natalee made to find extra tickets so that her 2 sisters could also come (as there weren't enough tickets allocated to her to make that possible).

- Dave, Robin, the kids and 3,000 other people go to this ceremony and it writes that Dave was unable to locate Natalee due to the excess amount of white robed graduates but that Natalee calls him on his cell and they meet up, Dave takes some pics and give her the cheque for 500$. Natalee thanks him and they said their goodbye's.

- the day before departing for Aruba Natalee calls and speaks to Robin, she is very exited about the trip and Robin reminds her to be careful.

- then on the 26th of May 2005 Beth drops her 18 year old daughter off at a friends house from where they will leave for the trip to Aruba.

page 6 and 7:

- talks about the number of students going (124) and the number of adults who will accompany them (7) and that Beth said she will pick Natalee up from the airport on the 30th

- then it talks about an event that took place 5 days before the students arrived when a well groomed black guy tries to drag an American tourists into the bushes for what she expects will be an attempted rape. The man later is featured in Opsporing Verzocht (word of translator: we are talking about the guy of whom we got to see a composite drawing on Opsporing Verzocht). The man is described and it also mentions that when he failed he threatened the tourist by saying that he know in which hotel she was staying. The tourist goes to the police to file a report but she is refused by the police when she asks for a copy of her statement to the police.

- then comes the trip proper, the FBI files show that Natalee and her friends said to the FBI that they did not do much more than swim, catch some rays and go out. It talks about the students being free to pair up and that Natalee shared with Ruth, Lee and Madison in room 7114 of the HI. They arrived Thursday afternoon. And although they were there with 4, only 3 slept there as Madison stayed in her boyfriends room (Trey) for all of the vacation.

- then the story mentions the location of the room, the things in the room, the fact that Ruth and Natalee shared 1 twin bed.

- it then mentions on interview with Ruth from the NY Post of the 17th of July in which it is said that the girls stayed up all night talking about the future and their dreams, about Natalee going to the Uni of Alabama with a scholarship and wanting to become a doctor.
 
 page 8 and 9:

- Natalee said even though they would go to different Uni's they would remain friends.

- the room they shared looked out on the Moomba bar, a popular place with locals. Next to the Moomba is an alleyway in which drugs are dealt, it talks about coke being cheap there

- talks about Natalee hooking up with a dutch marine with blue eyes but it says that he shipped out prior to her going missing making him no suspect

- talks about Dompig saying that Natalee called her mom from Aruba saying she had fallen in love with a blue eyed dutch boy. Beth supposedly also said this to a reporter from the island and to a HI employee. Something Beth strongly denies ever having said, she denies having talked with Natalee while she was on the island

- talks about Dompig also stating that Natalee used and possessed drugs on the island and there there were witnesses claiming she had been using them (also mentioned in Peter R. de Vries's show). She is also said to have offered it twice to a fellow student.

- Lee talks about their daily routine which consisted of starting to drink at ten in the morning, lying on the beach beds for some rays and swimming. Natalee's drink of choice was red fires (mix of bacardi 151 and cola light). Also mentions that bacardi 151 is very strong stuff. Lee says that her and Natalee drank pretty much throughout the day, they would return to their rooms at 5 for some rest, at approx. 6 they would get ready for dinner and after that going out

- then Dompig is quoted from Vanity Fair that the students were very wild, they often swapped rooms and that their school would not be allowed back to the HI next year

- goes on with witness statements. Dompig says Natalee drank so heavily she did not go to breakfast twice during the trip.

- croupiers at the HI Excelsior have testified about Natalee's drinking habits. One of them (Sandy Dirks) called Natalee an alcoholic because Natalee asked for almost full glasses of rum with a bit of coca cola but this Sandy said she was only allowed double rum's in a glass and not full up rum in a glass with a sip of coca cola. The whole group drank a lot, but Natalee drank the most.

- croupier Elzeline Tromp saw that on the 28th of May Natalee had been in the casino drinking heavily, she look drunk and her co-workers also noticed that
page 10 and 11:

- goes on with testimony of witness croupier Michael Cornes noting that Natalee drank full up rum with barely any coca cola and that she drank this all the nite while there. He also says that he had been told she would drink rum all day long

- director of Housekeeping Milarca Wedervoort said to the police about the behavior of the MB kids: they swapped room all the time, men and women mixed, had more people to 1 room than allowed, rooms were a mess, Yard cups everywhere and 2 blocked toilets

- goes on with the story that Madison and her friends teased Natalee with her unusually short skirt, Madison saying Natalee was a virgin and that she would not allow guys to touch her. To contradict this testimony of Madison it is then mentioned that family members of Natalee later testified that Natalee's former boyfriend Jeremy Brown was also there. Madison however is the short shirt wearing kind of person and it also mentions Madison saying that Natalee was not the ultimate party animal on the island, she partied just like all other students.

- it says that at home Natalee was a social drinker in the weekend, although never more than 3 or 4 drinks. Natalee always got up early, she did not smoke and if she ever "blowed" then it would not have been more than once or twice.

- Ruth never saw Natalee do drugs, Ruth says Natalee is the most responsible girl she knows and that Natalee has a strict daily routine and often goes to bed at nine PM

- Friday the 28th: talks about Madison and Natalee chilling at the pool at the HI, chatting, sunning and swimming, going over to the next hotel when they hear music but coming back quickly. More of the daily routine, going for a nap in the afternoon, getting ready to party.

- then the security guard trying to get into their room is mentioned (described as a light skinned man with dark security uniform). More talk about Lee having heard stuff was stolen off rooms of fellow MB students and one instance were a security guard was caught in the middle of a room when the occupants went into the room.

- that night the girls went to C&C's, Madison got back in a cab, does not know how late Natalee returned.

page 12 and 13:

- Saturday 28th, goes on about the diving cruise (snorkling), there is some alcohol, some music and Natalee did not feel that well (maybe sea-sickness according to Madison). Natalee did not drink alcohol on the boat and Madison stayed in that night and can not tell about what Natalee did that night. Lee does know, Natalee got plastered that night and Kevin Broday had to escort her to her room

- Sunday 29th: Natalee hits the red fires from an early hour. She is drunk soon after. Her friends tell her to take it back a notch but Lee and Natalee keep up their drinking routine while relaxing at the pool of the hotel.

- between 6 and 7 getting ready for dinner, Natalee downed yet more red fires according to Madison but she did not consider Natalee to be drunk at that time. Natalee and her girlfriends talked during dinner as to whom they were going to hook up with. Madison believed Natalee would end up in the sack with Kevin Broday but Natalee was also said to be flirting seriously with Jack Noble.

- After dinner Natalee, Madison, Lee, Ruth, Trey and a fellow student named Thorton go to the casino in the excelsior.

- then talks about Ruth having lost money and wanting to win it back at the black jack table. Natalee did not play black jack, she was walking between her friends and talking constantly on a cellphone. At 20.40 hours Natalee starts drinking a vodka Mixer.

- at the black jack table there are 2 men. One is white male, approx. 45 with dark hairs whom Madison had seen 2 days earlier at the HI casino. People later thought this guy resembled Paul van der Sloot, Joran's dad but he had already left at that time. The other is a quiet, white young man who said he was 19 and came from the Netherlands.

END OF CHAPTER
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #847 on: May 10, 2007, 09:58:41 AM »

Quote from: "Peaches"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Tamikosmom"
Hi Monkeys

Has anybody heard from Peaches?

My thoughts have been with her all day.

Janet

She posted real early this morning before going in for her CT Scan.  I haven't seen her post since.  I don't know how long it should take or what her plans were after.  I'm hoping she checks in and let's us know how it went.


THank you.  I'm fine.  I came home and took a nap.  Getting up at 3 am to drink contrast left me wanting a big nap.  I guess I never logged back in...... sorry....

I don't know when they will call me with results.  I'm hoping for Friday but realistically I know, probably Monday......


Good Morning Peaches ... Good Morning Monkeys

Janet

7:00 AM PDST
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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
San
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« Reply #848 on: May 10, 2007, 09:58:46 AM »

Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
Don't know if this has been posted yet,but I see Ramm has finished translating ch. 7 of Joran's book:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0

Joran is truly a psycho.  He is giving a recap of what Natalee did on vacation.  What a bunch of bullshit.  He copied everything he has ever heard or read on the internet.

    Joran's book:

    - goes on with testimony of witness croupier Michael Cornes noting that Natalee drank full up rum with barely any coca cola and that she drank this all the nite while there. He also says that he had been told she would drink rum all day long.
    [/list]

    How the hell would this guy remember what Natalee drank.  He wasn't the one who got the drinks for her.  Did he taste her drink.  Notice how he says there was hardly any coca cola and it was full up run.
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    « Reply #849 on: May 10, 2007, 09:59:34 AM »

    Quote from: "IndyDan"
    Quote from: "Peaches"
    Quote from: "nonesuche"
    Quote from: "Easywriter"
    Anyone here feeling the pain for OJ tonight?  He got kicked out of a steakhouse and is trying to play the race card.  Bless his cold, cold heart…..


    I am proud of this Jeff Ruby and proud he's in our country, one has to wonder why Aruba would so willingly allow the sporter and paulus as well as Anita and K2 to ramble about unfettered?  Rolling Eyes

    OJ has to deflect the truth, it's his ingrained modus operandi...


    I believe Mr. Ruby has a right to refuse service to anyone.  And somebody slap Yale Galanter!  This isn't about race.  It's about getting away with murder and then rubbing people's noses in it.  

    Good morning.

    Good Morning Yall!
    Either this weekend or next, I’m driving down to Lancaster, KY to pick up some white cedar log furniture from Rocky Top Log Furniture for my screened porch.  To get there and back I have to drive thru Louisville.  I plan to stop by this restaurant to eat and shake this guys hand.


    That's great!  Tell him he has a lot of people that support him and understand his outrage!
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    « Reply #850 on: May 10, 2007, 10:00:04 AM »

    Quote from: "Easywriter"
    Quote from: "Hotshot"
    Go here to see video...  Horcamento na Kijkuit Post Bubali Plas ...Just another hanging in Aruba
    http://www.24ora.com/


    Jossy tells me that the DIARIO has a good working relationship with 24ora and he has spoken with the owners very recently.  He also says that they keep about seven photographers in the streets of Aruba all the time.

    I think it would be worthwhile for people to email them (info@24ora.com) and let them know there is interest in an English version of their publication.  Registering with them will also get you news alerts, etc. (www.24ora.com)

    We have all been wanting something like this, right?


    Hopefully they will catch the next pimp attack on a tourist and we won't have to go through this all again.. and a family wont be dragged through the mud for two years.

    Good Morning everyone.
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    « Reply #851 on: May 10, 2007, 10:03:54 AM »

    *ALERT*

    Drivers searching lake for missing Illinois mom Lisa Stebic.
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    « Reply #852 on: May 10, 2007, 10:04:21 AM »

    Quote from: "San"
    Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
    Don't know if this has been posted yet,but I see Ramm has finished translating ch. 7 of Joran's book:

    http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0

    Joran is truly a psycho.  He is giving a recap of what Natalee did on vacation.  What a bunch of bullshit.  He copied everything he has ever heard or read on the internet.

      Joran's book:

      - goes on with testimony of witness croupier Michael Cornes noting that Natalee drank full up rum with barely any coca cola and that she drank this all the nite while there. He also says that he had been told she would drink rum all day long.
      [/list]

      How the hell would this guy remember what Natalee drank.  He wasn't the one who got the drinks for her.  Did he taste her drink.  Notice how he says there was hardly any coca cola and it was full up run.


      Yep-I've been thinking that same thing.
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      « Reply #853 on: May 10, 2007, 10:09:39 AM »

      Easy-I still haven't got an answer for who Andre(s) Meneses is...this is what I got so far:
      MF wrote:
      Wow, finally someone noticed that there were a lot of other persons interrogated/interviewed by the ALE and not one but many times. That the HMI only used selected parts of mistranslated PV's says a lot.

      GEL wrote:
      Do you know who this person is and why he was questioned so many times?

      Charlierat wrote:
      What's the matter? Your MonKKKey sources run dry? I couldn't help but notice that the topic of discussion over at the Klan site is the significance of Meneses' detention.

      I guess since Jossy doesn't know, you expect MF to fill in the blanks for you.
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      « Reply #854 on: May 10, 2007, 10:10:54 AM »

      Quote from: "Rob"
      *ALERT*

      Drivers searching lake for missing Illinois mom Lisa Stebic.


      And the last person to see her is.............

      DING DING DING!

      her soon to be ex husband.

      And 85% of the time, the last person seen with the missing person is the culprit.
       
      If he's not a POI yet, I bet he will be soon.
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      « Reply #855 on: May 10, 2007, 10:11:57 AM »

      Quote from: "San"
      Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
      Don't know if this has been posted yet,but I see Ramm has finished translating ch. 7 of Joran's book:

      http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0

      Joran is truly a psycho.  He is giving a recap of what Natalee did on vacation.  What a bunch of bullshit.  He copied everything he has ever heard or read on the internet.

        Joran's book:

        - goes on with testimony of witness croupier Michael Cornes noting that Natalee drank full up rum with barely any coca cola and that she drank this all the nite while there. He also says that he had been told she would drink rum all day long.
        [/list]

        How the hell would this guy remember what Natalee drank.  He wasn't the one who got the drinks for her.  Did he taste her drink.  Notice how he says there was hardly any coca cola and it was full up run.



        Morning San and all. If I want and account of what Natalee was doing that weekend I won't get it from a self-admitted pathological liar. Read between the lines and all Joran is doing is trying to plant seeds of doubt. That's what liars and defense attorneys who handle liars do.
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        « Reply #856 on: May 10, 2007, 10:12:34 AM »

        GEL, apparently CHarlierat hasn't gotten the memo either or he would have popped off the answer just to show off.
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        « Reply #857 on: May 10, 2007, 10:13:51 AM »

        Quote from: "Peaches"
        GEL, apparently CHarlierat hasn't gotten the memo either or he would have popped off the answer just to show off.


         Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
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        « Reply #858 on: May 10, 2007, 10:16:19 AM »

        Thank you, Klaas!

        Wow - that chapter made me really mad!!  Joran's book telling the story of Natalee's life and the previous days of her trip.... as if he had a freakin' clue who she was and what made her so special -  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil

        He didn't know and he didn't care.   Evil or Very Mad   I feel sick.
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        "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."  - Galileo
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        « Reply #859 on: May 10, 2007, 10:16:35 AM »

        I have to laugh when I read this:

        - then talks about Ruth having lost money and wanting to win it back at the black jack table. Natalee did not play black jack, she was walking between her friends and talking constantly on a cellphone. At 20.40 hours Natalee starts drinking a vodka Mixer.

        What happened to he won Natalee money back for her and she called him her lucky charm Rolling Eyes .

        Again he says Natalle is drinking and he gives exact times and knows what she is drinking.

        So far we have two different drinks he names.
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