Lively Case Discussion #617 5/10 - 5/11/2007

[klaasend]

Location: Aruba/USA
Name/Fitle: Laboratory report (blood sample)
File No: 163a-bb-1426
Date: 09 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/initiator: Madeline A. Montgomery (Chemistry Unit 1)
Description: blood samples comparison
Source: FBI
Lab nr: 050609002KSNP
Location: Quantico,VA 22135
G€¢ Name/Title: Search for blood in Deepak Kalpoe's car
File No: none
Date: 9 June 2005 / 20:30
Pages: 3
32




Writer/Initiator: Scott Henri Hahn (FBI), R.C.B. Tromp, S. G Ras
Description: Blood Search in Deepak Kalpoes Car
Source: Technische Opsporings-en Herkenningsdienst
Lab nr: 663/2005
Location: Divisie Centrale Recherche, Aruba
G€¢ Name/Title: taking of swab samples, Blood samples from Beth Ann Twitty / Dave
Edward Holloway
File No: R00906/r00898 / b9109/b8987
Date: 10 June 2005 / 14:40
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Silvio Gilberto Ras
Description: Swab Samples, Blood samples from: Beth Ann Twitty I Dave
Edward Holloway
Source: Technische Opsporings-en Herkenningsdienst
Lab nr. 667/2005
Location: Aruba

On June 9th...they are submitting blood samples...not swabs...for blood comparison. I am assuming 2 samples in order to compare...whose?

On June 9th they also conduct a search for blood in Deepak's car

on June 10th, they take swap samples and blood samples from Dave and Beth.

It is not swaps they were submitting on the 9th...it was blood samples for comparison so what ever they were comparing...they already knew it was blood and not chocolate/cleaner

So we need to find out what they had to compare with.  Maybe blood on a shoe?  Blood on the rocks at near the Lighthouse area?

[ldstlou]

ldstlou,
No, I don't think that ALE took the car into their possession before they took the swabs.

In fact, I think it was even later, like a week before they finally confiscated it.

.

So when was that?

Someone else prolly remembers better than I do.  Maybe the 16th of June.  I remember it as being the day the Sloot house was searched, 15-16 of June.  Didn't they search both houses the same day and take all three cars at the same time?

The blood/cleaning fluid could have been seen at any time before that when Deepak was in for statements, etc. because I don't think that was why they asked Beth for blood sample.  I think they asked her for that based on Joran's confession and leading them to a body which turned out to have been moved to a place he did not know.

Beth was told the night of the 9th of June that Natalee was likely dead but hink it was because of Jorans confession, not blood in the car.

The next day she gives blood sample which was prolly as soon as they could do it, etc.

so then whose blood samples did the FBI have on the 9th...for comparison?

[bleachedblack]

I have a question, or maybe it's not.

Did Paulus and Anita ever reach out to Beth or Dave?

You all know the answer.

This case is closed.

I think Anita cried her eyes out for Natalee. Behind closed doors of course. That is the only time I have seen them with any emotion or care for what they did to this family. When the whole island was searching for NH..Paulus Lawyered up. They didn't even help look for Natalee because they knew where she was.


Paulus told dave he would do anything to protect his son..And he meant it

Are you serious here? You think Anita cried her eyes out for Natalee? The only part of Natalee going missing that she may have cried for is because of the extent it involved her son and family. Their lives were disrupted, and the interviews she gave and the things she did such as wear that braclet were for appearance sake only. Did she go out and search for Natalee? Did she even address her by her name when speaking about her?  RARELY

[Elaine]

The pictures don't really show how bad it is.  Hard to get a good photo at this distance with the sun right now and my cheap camera, lol.  First photo is with my digital camera, 2nd with my cellphone:

Klaas, I hope they can get that fire under control soon!

[ldstlou]

Location: Aruba/USA
Name/Fitle: Laboratory report (blood sample)
File No: 163a-bb-1426
Date: 09 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/initiator: Madeline A. Montgomery (Chemistry Unit 1)
Description: blood samples comparison
Source: FBI
Lab nr: 050609002KSNP
Location: Quantico,VA 22135
G€¢ Name/Title: Search for blood in Deepak Kalpoe's car
File No: none
Date: 9 June 2005 / 20:30
Pages: 3
32




Writer/Initiator: Scott Henri Hahn (FBI), R.C.B. Tromp, S. G Ras
Description: Blood Search in Deepak Kalpoes Car
Source: Technische Opsporings-en Herkenningsdienst
Lab nr: 663/2005
Location: Divisie Centrale Recherche, Aruba
G€¢ Name/Title: taking of swab samples, Blood samples from Beth Ann Twitty / Dave
Edward Holloway
File No: R00906/r00898 / b9109/b8987
Date: 10 June 2005 / 14:40
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Silvio Gilberto Ras
Description: Swab Samples, Blood samples from: Beth Ann Twitty I Dave
Edward Holloway
Source: Technische Opsporings-en Herkenningsdienst
Lab nr. 667/2005
Location: Aruba

On June 9th...they are submitting blood samples...not swabs...for blood comparison. I am assuming 2 samples in order to compare...whose?

On June 9th they also conduct a search for blood in Deepak's car

on June 10th, they take swap samples and blood samples from Dave and Beth.

It is not swaps they were submitting on the 9th...it was blood samples for comparison so what ever they were comparing...they already knew it was blood and not chocolate/cleaner

So we need to find out what they had to compare with.  Maybe blood on a shoe?  Blood on the rocks at near the Lighthouse area?

exactly...they had a blood sample that they sunmitted for comparison on the 9th...whose and where was it obtained. They were not comparing it to Beth or Dave's to see if it was Natalee's...theirs was taken the following day.

[Anna]

I know I am driving you nuts...so sorry. On the 9th...FBI logs in multible blood samples I am assuming, because you have to have more than one for "blood" comparisons. The same day, swabs are taken from Deepak's car. Beth and Dave do not have blood drawn until the 10th. Was it the 10th that Beth was told they had found blood? So I am assuming it was the 9th that the FBI witnessed the blood in the car. I see no records from prior to this. So how do they switch the car/swabs on the same day?

The problem is you are assuming the blood samples that were tested were from the car.  We don't know what samples were tested.

oh no...I'm not assuming that at all...I am trying to figure out what two samples they could be comparing? It could not be to Natalees...they have none..it could not be from Dave or Beth...they got that the 10th...so where did these samples come from?

.
But it says Title that it is samples taken from the car.

Location: Aruba/USA
Name/Fitle: Laboratory report (blood sample)
File No: 163a-bb-1426
Date: 09 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/initiator: Madeline A. Montgomery (Chemistry Unit 1)
Description: blood samples comparison
Source: FBI
Lab nr: 050609002KSNP
Location: Quantico,VA 22135
G€¢ Name/Title: Search for blood in Deepak Kalpoe's car
File No: none
Date: 9 June 2005 / 20:30
Pages: 3
32

[oldfart]

this is a test

this is a test

this is a test

[ldstlou]

I know I am driving you nuts...so sorry. On the 9th...FBI logs in multible blood samples I am assuming, because you have to have more than one for "blood" comparisons. The same day, swabs are taken from Deepak's car. Beth and Dave do not have blood drawn until the 10th. Was it the 10th that Beth was told they had found blood? So I am assuming it was the 9th that the FBI witnessed the blood in the car. I see no records from prior to this. So how do they switch the car/swabs on the same day?

The problem is you are assuming the blood samples that were tested were from the car.  We don't know what samples were tested.

oh no...I'm not assuming that at all...I am trying to figure out what two samples they could be comparing? It could not be to Natalees...they have none..it could not be from Dave or Beth...they got that the 10th...so where did these samples come from?

.
But it says Title that it is samples taken from the car.

Location: Aruba/USA
Name/Fitle: Laboratory report (blood sample)
File No: 163a-bb-1426
Date: 09 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/initiator: Madeline A. Montgomery (Chemistry Unit 1)
Description: blood samples comparison
Source: FBI
Lab nr: 050609002KSNP
Location: Quantico,VA 22135
G€¢ Name/Title: Search for blood in Deepak Kalpoe's car
File No: none
Date: 9 June 2005 / 20:30
Pages: 3
32

they are kind of jumbled together..oops...but they are two separate items...

[Anna]

I have a question, or maybe it's not.

Did Paulus and Anita ever reach out to Beth or Dave?

You all know the answer.

This case is closed.

I think Anita cried her eyes out for Natalee. Behind closed doors of course. That is the only time I have seen them with any emotion or care for what they did to this family. When the whole island was searching for NH..Paulus Lawyered up. They didn't even help look for Natalee because they knew where she was.


Paulus told dave he would do anything to protect his son..And he meant it

Are you serious here? You think Anita cried her eyes out for Natalee? The only part of Natalee going missing that she may have cried for is because of the extent it involved her son and family. Their lives were disrupted, and the interviews she gave and the things she did such as wear that braclet were for appearance sake only. Did she go out and search for Natalee? Did she even address her by her name when speaking about her?  RARELY

I think Anita cried for what was happening to her Sporter only, not about Natalee whom she said should not have gotten in that car.

She blames her for doing that.  What a thing for any mother to say!  If I felt that way about any of my boys, I'd board them up in their room until they learned how to be a human being.

.

[klaasend]

A view of the fire from the pier at Avalon in Catalina Island.

500-acre Catalina blaze nears city of Avalon

A fast-moving fire swept across Santa Catalina Island this evening, charring hundreds of acres and forcing mandatory evacuations on the tourist island 26 miles off the mainland.

By 6:30 p.m. more than 500 acres had been consumed by the fire that began in the center of the island and was pushed south and east by fierce winds. The destruction was expected to grow.

"The fire is moving very quickly toward the town," said Leslie Shannon, who went to St. Catherine of Alexandria Church in Avalon after she was ordered out of her condominium. "Every person who can fight the fire is out there fighting it right now."

About 160 firefighters were on the scene or en route, said Los Angeles County fire Capt. Ron Haralson in a telephone interview. One firefighter injury was reported.

Parts of the island were under a mandatory evacuation but residents were seeking shelter at churches and along the beach. It was not known if the population would need to be evacuated to the mainland, he said.

Several hundred people moved along the water's edge, fearing that the entire island was to be evacuated. Some wore masks to protect their faces and lungs from smoke damage, their hastily grabbed belongings filling bulging backpacks and suitcases.
(snipped)
http://www.latimes.com/

[Observer]

Good pics klaas..  They have that fire contained at all??

[bleachedblack]

I know I am driving you nuts...so sorry. On the 9th...FBI logs in multible blood samples I am assuming, because you have to have more than one for "blood" comparisons. The same day, swabs are taken from Deepak's car. Beth and Dave do not have blood drawn until the 10th. Was it the 10th that Beth was told they had found blood? So I am assuming it was the 9th that the FBI witnessed the blood in the car. I see no records from prior to this. So how do they switch the car/swabs on the same day?

Couldn't they also be comparing blood samples collected from different sites?
There was also that alleged drop of blood on one of Jorans sneakers .

maybe...so then we would have to assume the FBI had access to the sneakers.

the FBI only had access to what they were given. They were there to observe, and if a sample of something were sent to Quantico they could test it.

[Anna]

Well, that does change it a bit!

I would think the blood samples are from the suspects, later Joran's to be thrown out when Paulus sneaked into the file and disposed of the judge's order for it.

JMO.

.

[bleachedblack]

A view of the fire from the pier at Avalon in Catalina Island.

500-acre Catalina blaze nears city of Avalon

A fast-moving fire swept across Santa Catalina Island this evening, charring hundreds of acres and forcing mandatory evacuations on the tourist island 26 miles off the mainland.

By 6:30 p.m. more than 500 acres had been consumed by the fire that began in the center of the island and was pushed south and east by fierce winds. The destruction was expected to grow.

"The fire is moving very quickly toward the town," said Leslie Shannon, who went to St. Catherine of Alexandria Church in Avalon after she was ordered out of her condominium. "Every person who can fight the fire is out there fighting it right now."

About 160 firefighters were on the scene or en route, said Los Angeles County fire Capt. Ron Haralson in a telephone interview. One firefighter injury was reported.

Parts of the island were under a mandatory evacuation but residents were seeking shelter at churches and along the beach. It was not known if the population would need to be evacuated to the mainland, he said.

Several hundred people moved along the water's edge, fearing that the entire island was to be evacuated. Some wore masks to protect their faces and lungs from smoke damage, their hastily grabbed belongings filling bulging backpacks and suitcases.
(snipped)
http://www.latimes.com/

That's a scarry pic Klaas.

[robots]

something made the investigators think that Joran drove a car that night

beause they were asking the k2 brothers



ladies and gentlemen, i give you

GUIDO

[klaasend]

Good pics klaas..  They have that fire contained at all??

Nope, not that I've read.  Looks like it's still growing and getting closer to Avalon.

[ldstlou]

Here was my concern.
Dr. Phil's lawyers are asking for specific records of the FBI.
1 report which was 2 pages...was blood sample analysis.
another report which was 3 pages was based on the search for blood in Deepak's car.
Is it cooincidence that the same evening they tell Beth they found blood?
The blood sample analysis would have to two samples to compare.
Could it have been Deepak's they were comparing a sample to as a way to eliminate the blood being his?
The following day they ask Dave and Beth for blood samples.

Does the FBI in fact have proof that the blood was Natalee's?
Why would they tell Beth they thought Natalee was expired if they weren't sure.
How can the ALE...if in fact this is the case..be able to keep the FBI silent?

[Anna]

Klaas,
How large is the entire island compared to the fire area?  I thought it was tiny.  Shouldn't those people leave?  Better now than in the dark???
.

[ldstlou]

Well, that does change it a bit!

I would think the blood samples are from the suspects, later Joran's to be thrown out when Paulus sneaked into the file and disposed of the judge's order for it.

JMO.

.

But why a comparison?

[Anna]

Here was my concern.
Dr. Phil's lawyers are asking for specific records of the FBI.
1 report which was 2 pages...was blood sample analysis.
another report which was 3 pages was based on the search for blood in Deepak's car.
Is it cooincidence that the same evening they tell Beth they found blood?
The blood sample analysis would have to two samples to compare.
Could it have been Deepak's they were comparing a sample to as a way to eliminate the blood being his?
The following day they ask Dave and Beth for blood samples.

Does the FBI in fact have proof that the blood was Natalee's?
Why would they tell Beth they thought Natalee was expired if they weren't sure.
How can the ALE...if in fact this is the case..be able to keep the FBI silent?

I don't think the FBI told Beth they found blood on the 9th.  I think they told her Joran confessed and was leading ALE to the body.

.