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Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
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Topic: Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007 (Read 146491 times)
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igsigs
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 2736
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #280 on:
May 13, 2007, 05:41:32 AM »
Big thanks to all the newsgivers and transcribers today.
No thanks to
Glenda/Renfro
for managing to puke out yet another false report. No surprise there.
Logged
Peaches
Monkey Junky
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~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #281 on:
May 13, 2007, 07:38:20 AM »
Quote from: "sirensong"
I need to read back and get caught up. Crazybabyborg, I accidently invalidated my ability to log on, and I am still working on an avatar.
I am not the brightest bulb in the lamp LOL
But you are certainly one of the loveliest!
Good morning. Happy Mother's Day.
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
Rob
Monkey All Star
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Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #282 on:
May 13, 2007, 07:53:21 AM »
Something just hit me.
Rumored call from the Santa Cruz area at 6:30 am. IIRC this is the correct area. If not someone correct me.
Possibly associated with Steve Croes??? Steve Croes drives a Honda, Correct?
I have not thought about this for a while, so please excuse me if I am a little rusty on this aspect.
Is it possible that the car the Kalpoe brothers and unidentified other person were cleaning
was
returned to the Santa Cruz area at roughly 6 - 6:30 am?
They then retrieved
Deepak's car
?
This could explain how it took Deepak so long to get home after work and then to pick up Joran.
In a sense, they got the look-a-like car from Santa Cruz and used that car for the nites activities, and then cleaned it throughly, then returned it after 2-3 hours of cleaning.
One of the three then placed a call from Santa Cruz to come and get him.
This could also explain how Dave thought that Joran was picked up near Lorenzo's house. It could also explain how Satish did not go to school the next day.
It doesn't explain how Joran is triangulated to the North of the Marriott. If it was in fact him on the cell phone.
With Paulus now being awake as confirmed by his computer records, it adds another person to the mix with the ability to have picked Joran or someone else up that morning.
With Paulus being denied compensation over the wiretapped calls where he seemingly admits picking Joran and Natalee up at 4 am, it leaves a large window open from 4 am til the call in Santa Cruz is registered at 6:30 am.
Hammer-
any thoughts here?
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Peaches
Monkey Junky
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~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #283 on:
May 13, 2007, 07:58:25 AM »
Rob, are you saying that they used SC's car instead of Deepak's and switched cars after the crime so there would be no evidence of a crime in Deepak's car?
I didn't know you had your own blog. Where have I been?
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Posts: 5376
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #284 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:06:41 AM »
Quote from: "Rob"
Something just hit me.
Rumored call from the Santa Cruz area at 6:30 am. IIRC this is the correct area. If not someone correct me.
Possibly associated with Steve Croes??? Steve Croes drives a Honda, Correct?
I have not thought about this for a while, so please excuse me if I am a little rusty on this aspect.
Is it possible that the car the Kalpoe brothers and unidentified other person were cleaning
was
returned to the Santa Cruz area at roughly 6 - 6:30 am?
They then retrieved
Deepak's car
?
This could explain how it took Deepak so long to get home after work and then to pick up Joran.
In a sense, they got the look-a-like car from Santa Cruz and used that car for the nites activities, and then cleaned it throughly, then returned it after 2-3 hours of cleaning.
One of the three then placed a call from Santa Cruz to come and get him.
This could also explain how Dave thought that Joran was picked up near Lorenzo's house. It could also explain how Satish did not go to school the next day.
It doesn't explain how Joran is triangulated to the North of the Marriott. If it was in fact him on the cell phone.
With Paulus now being awake as confirmed by his computer records, it adds another person to the mix with the ability to have picked Joran or someone else up that morning.
With Paulus being denied compensation over the wiretapped calls where he seemingly admits picking Joran and Natalee up at 4 am, it leaves a large window open from 4 am til the call in Santa Cruz is registered at 6:30 am.
Hammer-
any thoughts here?
I thought there was some kind of SUV in Steves driveway.
I think the Deepakmobile was pimped a certain way that the MBers ID it.
I lean a little more toward replacing parts.
Now, they could have met up with someone else (and a car) or left for a time in the slootmobile.
The neighbor would probably know if they were washing a different car so early in the morning.
Logged
Rob
Monkey All Star
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Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #285 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:12:19 AM »
Quote from: "Peaches"
Rob, are you saying that they used SC's car instead of Deepak's and switched cars after the crime so there would be no evidence of a crime in Deepak's car?
I didn't know you had your own blog. Where have I been?
Happy Mother's Day Peaches-
Yes, I'm saying it's possible that the mystery car is from the south end of the island.
I feel funny about linking my blog here, so I don't do it.
Klaas has my email address and if you like she can give it to you and I'll send you the address. I'm not near the writer that Easy is. I just do it to raise awareness of missing people and the families left behind. So many victims.. it's terrible.
I just post about Max DeVries, Jennifer Kesse, Amy Bradley, Natalee and some others...Right now I have been doing a bunch of updates on Madeleine McCann. I have been following the Michael Barrios case.
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Rob
Monkey All Star
Offline
Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #286 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:26:54 AM »
Quote from: "Buckeye"
I thought there was some kind of SUV in Steves driveway.
I think the Deepakmobile was pimped a certain way that the MBers ID it.
I lean a little more toward replacing parts.
Now, they could have met up with someone else (and a car) or left for a time in the slootmobile.
The neighbor would probably know if they were washing a different car so early in the morning.
Buckeye-
Maybe this is more complicated than we think, or at least I think.
Maybe there is one aspect that is hanging this case up..could it be the cars used? I don't know.
I remember clearly hearing that the FBI believed Natalee was dead based on the amount of blood in the
Kalpoe
car. They used the figure 95% sure. That has stuck with me. They left a 5% chance that she was not dead.
I have not seen that characterization again since I heard it at the beginning of the case. But I do remember it clearly. I don't think it is in a transcript any where, or we would have seen it again. As I recall it was right around the time Oduber made the statement that caught Beth off guard about blood being in the Kalpoe car.
I also agree that swapping parts is easier, but how easy could it be if there is not an inventory of Honda parts available on the island...again, I don't know if there is an inventory or not.
If Oduber was making a statement like that, it is possible that there was blood in the car and Natalee's Freebirds just did a piece on that and it confirms that there was blood in that car. Yet if there was blood in the car on 6-9-2005, the Kalpoes would have seen it and cleaned it again and again until it was not visible. So, something is not right.
Also, Comemencia had taken possession of the cars himself. I believe it is possible, very possible, that he himself planted the chocolate and cleaning fluid in the car to make it appear there was blood.
That doesn't explain the positive tests confirming blood.
It is perplexing that the Kalpoes would clean the car so throughly and still not see blood that is visible to the naked eye as detailed by the FBI.
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Peaches
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3539
~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #287 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:30:48 AM »
Rob are their junkyards down there? It seems like they have plenty of fender benders. What happens to cars that have been totalled? How hard would it be to come up with spare parts if one had access to a junkyard?
So are we back to "did they impound the correct vehicles?"
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
Rob
Monkey All Star
Offline
Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #288 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:35:06 AM »
Easy- when you see this, could you ask NELSON "SPEED" ANDRADE if he has a relation to a Jacy Andrade? possibly in Holland as a Systems Analyst.
TIA
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Rob
Monkey All Star
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Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #289 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:36:50 AM »
Quote from: "Peaches"
Rob are their junkyards down there? It seems like they have plenty of fender benders. What happens to cars that have been totalled? How hard would it be to come up with spare parts if one had access to a junkyard?
So are we back to "did they impound the correct vehicles?"
Yes there are Peaches. When you fly out of Queen Beatrix Airport, you can clearly see a junkyard from the air. It's not very far from the Airport.
Those cars are stripped for parts I assume.
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Anna
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 18149
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #290 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:40:34 AM »
Quote from: "igsigs"
Freddy 6/12 a Time-Bomb
How did KJ and ALE manage to diffuse it?
Freddy presents a clear recollection of Joran telling him the HI story
before
the arrival of Natalee's family. And a clear recollection of being told the beach story the next day.
No doubt the post 6/12 pow-wow with Freddy/Paulus/Anita/Carlo was critical to the Sloot obstruction. And likely the event that convinced Carlo that *Joran was involved*.
KLPD has a lot to work with here. They can start by looking into why a known criminal meeting between a suspects family, lawyer and witness became a roadblock in the case instead of an asset to the investigation.
And a special good morning to all mothers this morning!
This is quite a little bombshell and would be considered circumstantial evidence in most places. Note Paulus was once said to have been detained for asking friends of Joran what they told the police but being the man that he is, he later claimed to have been in the kitchen and said it was Anita who asked that of Freddy.
Apparently we have a Freddy/Sloot rift going here.
And why was it not an outright conspiracy to obstruct justice for the Sloots and Kalpoes and Kalpoe parents to all hold a big pow wow and decide how to obstruct the investigation? What else can that meeting be called? No corpse/no case and all that?
Why in the world would they have been proceeding on the basis that Natalee was not alive and well and going to turn up any minute right from the get go? Were the Kalpoes really fooled by Paulus getting a lawyer "for" them and couldn't they see the benefit he had from controlling even that aspect of this fiasco?
This is so not a perfect crime. It is a professional cover up as Art Wood described it and yet it is not even a good one of those because it is just too obvious and botched and patched and misaligned.
.
Logged
PERSONA NON GRATA
All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts. I am doing the best I can with the information available.
Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary
http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Rob
Monkey All Star
Offline
Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #291 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:46:58 AM »
Anna- As Janet and others contend, and I'm sure you know... this cover up might have worked except for Beth.
Aruba had never been put through the ringer like this before and the previous cover ups hardly took any work compared to what happened here.
It's obvious that they are not professionals at the cover up game... heck even we recognized it right away.
BTW- Happy Mother's Day!!!
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Silverfox
Scared Monkey
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Posts: 413
Truth is a "Social Invention", Right Paulus?
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #292 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:47:53 AM »
Quote from: "Tibrogargan"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Why do they call Freddy 'Loco'???
Freddy called himself "Locoman" on his Myspace site.
Hi Angie and Klass!!!
Is it because he is crazy, or first (as in the front of the train?)???
Very possible. Maybe he was the "main man" in charge of the camera and action.
March 2005
Focusing on the bottom picture:
Deepak can barely see over the steering wheel. Even though we know he is a runt this looks like a much bigger car in comparison. Also there is a lot of room above the windscreen to fit the TV. I drive a Camry (medium size car but bigger than Civic) and if I had TV above windscreen it would be mounted on the ceiling and would be horizontal, not upright as in this picture.
That is not a car it is a minivan
The extra room behind the drivers is headroom for entering and exiting the vehicle.
Check your archives for gray vans.
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Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #293 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:48:08 AM »
Not too long ago, my son was enamoured by the pimped cars. Even had to go out north late one night to check them out. The car of choice was the Honda Civic. I have no doubts, on pimped car island, there was a ready supply of civic parts. It seemed to also be one of their choices for pimping.
Having said that, was the "Nissan" reference (in the NY case) a slip, or is there also a Nissan somewhere in the mix??
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IBE
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3554
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #294 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:48:16 AM »
A
Bright
Good Morning
to you all.
I just went through insomnia so hope to sleep now and still see you all bright and shining in a few hours and have the whole case solved!
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Freedom is not free: it also takes ethics, character, accountability, responsibility and courage! Freedom for Scared Monkeys: donate to Red's legal fees.
Rob
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Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #295 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:52:58 AM »
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Buckeye
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Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #296 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:52:59 AM »
Anna
I agree with most everything you said. The exception might be that Freddy, very well might be trying to get Joran off the hook from being alone with Natalee. With all the lawyers involved, I'm sure it was pointed out that the worst thing is to be alone with someone missing. Freddy practically lived at the Sloots. I think he was trying to cover for Joran and keep him out of trouble, by mentioning the three of them at the beach..
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Rob
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Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #297 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:57:25 AM »
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Peaches"
Rob are their junkyards down there? It seems like they have plenty of fender benders. What happens to cars that have been totalled? How hard would it be to come up with spare parts if one had access to a junkyard?
So are we back to "did they impound the correct vehicles?"
Yes there are Peaches. When you fly out of Queen Beatrix Airport, you can clearly see a junkyard from the air. It's not very far from the Airport.
Those cars are stripped for parts I assume.
BTW- I meant to mention that the junkyard appears to be filled with white Suzukis and white Ataras... like the small rental off road vehicles.
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Peaches
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~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #298 on:
May 13, 2007, 08:57:58 AM »
Rob, where's that pic from ? TIA
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
Rob
Monkey All Star
Offline
Posts: 12469
Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007
«
Reply #299 on:
May 13, 2007, 09:01:36 AM »
Logged
Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
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