Lively Case Discussion #619 5/12 - 5/13/2007

[AZLady]

Until I see Freddy's PV, signed and with the names of the ALE who questioned him, I will not believe Joran's translation.  The Kalpoes said, "Freddy needs to tell the truth."  Joran chose to include his own personal rendition of Freddy's PV in his book for one reason--to support the web of lies he is spinning.

Ramm answered my question regarding Freddy's PV in his book.  It was NOT a scanned picture of the PV, just text.  It is possible that Joran and his author left something out although Ramm seems to feel it is most of the PV.

IMO, the PV as relayed in Joran's book is pretty damning for Joran as is.

I'm still not sure how you mean that the PV is damning for Joran.  It seems to say that Joran and the others left her at the beach, as Joran's story says.

[Buckeye]

I do think it's interesting he mentions people seeing them leave C&C.  Almost sounds like the early Mon am "pool talk" plan...well then, say you dropped her at the HI...if they saw you...you can't deny you were with her...when that didn't work...the next idea was the beach...They already knew there was a problem, to even have a discussion about it.

[ldstlou]

Until I see Freddy's PV, signed and with the names of the ALE who questioned him, I will not believe Joran's translation.  The Kalpoes said, "Freddy needs to tell the truth."  Joran chose to include his own personal rendition of Freddy's PV in his book for one reason--to support the web of lies he is spinning.

Ramm answered my question regarding Freddy's PV in his book.  It was NOT a scanned picture of the PV, just text.  It is possible that Joran and his author left something out although Ramm seems to feel it is most of the PV.

IMO, the PV as relayed in Joran's book is pretty damning for Joran as is.

It would be interesting to see the original and see if Joran changed the wording for his book.

There has to be more because there is definitely a big part missing.

I agree...there is a part towards the end (...)  I am assuming this is where they left a part out. Don't think the publisher would allow them to change wording...probably would open themselves up to lawsuit...but imo..possible they left parts out.

[BTgirl]

Until I see Freddy's PV, signed and with the names of the ALE who questioned him, I will not believe Joran's translation.  The Kalpoes said, "Freddy needs to tell the truth."  Joran chose to include his own personal rendition of Freddy's PV in his book for one reason--to support the web of lies he is spinning.

Ramm answered my question regarding Freddy's PV in his book.  It was NOT a scanned picture of the PV, just text.  It is possible that Joran and his author left something out although Ramm seems to feel it is most of the PV.

IMO, the PV as relayed in Joran's book is pretty damning for Joran as is.

True, but Freddy says he's only repeating what Joran told him.

I'm still not sure how you mean that the PV is damning for Joran.  It seems to say that Joran and the others left her at the beach, as Joran's story says.

[klaasend]

Until I see Freddy's PV, signed and with the names of the ALE who questioned him, I will not believe Joran's translation.  The Kalpoes said, "Freddy needs to tell the truth."  Joran chose to include his own personal rendition of Freddy's PV in his book for one reason--to support the web of lies he is spinning.

Ramm answered my question regarding Freddy's PV in his book.  It was NOT a scanned picture of the PV, just text.  It is possible that Joran and his author left something out although Ramm seems to feel it is most of the PV.

IMO, the PV as relayed in Joran's book is pretty damning for Joran as is.

I'm still not sure how you mean that the PV is damning for Joran.  It seems to say that Joran and the others left her at the beach, as Joran's story says.

1.  Because he had already made up the lie of the HI on May 30th prior to Beth and Jug arriving in town.  Remember Joran claimed that Deepak made up that story when PVDS called them after Beth and Jug arrived at the VDS home.

2.  Because he told Freddy that Natalee was falling down and lost conciousness and they couldn't wake her up.  She was unresponsive.

I don't believe what Joran told Freddy is entirely true, but it proves that Joran knew he was already in trouble before Beth and Jug got to into town.

[ldstlou]

Until I see Freddy's PV, signed and with the names of the ALE who questioned him, I will not believe Joran's translation.  The Kalpoes said, "Freddy needs to tell the truth."  Joran chose to include his own personal rendition of Freddy's PV in his book for one reason--to support the web of lies he is spinning.

Ramm answered my question regarding Freddy's PV in his book.  It was NOT a scanned picture of the PV, just text.  It is possible that Joran and his author left something out although Ramm seems to feel it is most of the PV.

IMO, the PV as relayed in Joran's book is pretty damning for Joran as is.

I'm still not sure how you mean that the PV is damning for Joran.  It seems to say that Joran and the others left her at the beach, as Joran's story says.

left her there unconscious..and it doesn't appear as though she is sleeping...but unconscous from falling several times. Also shows that Joran is telling Freddy the story about Holiday in before anyone knew she was missing...why the need to lie on Monday? Why lie on Monday unless you know Natalee can't dispute.

[AZLady]

After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish. On the evening of June the third, I met Joran at his house. (....) He told met that during this period, he could not remember if they had bought something to eat or did anything else.

Joran seems to be retelling his own lies and supporting his beach story.  The last two sentences are weird.  I recognize that he is jumping from Joran's story of what happened the night Natalee disappeared to what happened several nights later on June 3.  However, the ellipses indicates something left out.  Was this the night they returned Freddy's camera to him?  I can't remember the date, but according to one of the PV's, the 2K's went to Freddy's house to return the camera.  They mention then that they got pizza to eat.  Is this where this is going and why it is mentioned at the end?

[BTgirl]

You know, I'm very interested in what Anna said about JR. I've always thought she was so involved because someone was paying her a lot of money, as a media person, to help with the disinformation campaign. What if, on the other hand, she was involved because she's done something that could possibly get HER in trouble if the whole truth came out about Natalee's death. Hmmmm............

[Buckeye]

And, does he put it into the book to try and say that Freddy had his dates wrong??  He always seems to "adjust" his story when another piece is unveiled.  He won't say Freddy lied...he just has his days off...what a piece of work..

[AZLady]

Aha!!  Thanks.  I didn't put that together.  Joran told Freddy the lie on Monday before he should have needed to lie.  Gotcha.  I'm just slow today.

[Buckeye]

After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish. On the evening of June the third, I met Joran at his house. (....) He told met that during this period, he could not remember if they had bought something to eat or did anything else.

Joran seems to be retelling his own lies and supporting his beach story.  The last two sentences are weird.  I recognize that he is jumping from Joran's story of what happened the night Natalee disappeared to what happened several nights later on June 3.  However, the ellipses indicates something left out.  Was this the night they returned Freddy's camera to him?  I can't remember the date, but according to one of the PV's, the 2K's went to Freddy's house to return the camera.  They mention then that they got pizza to eat.  Is this where this is going and why it is mentioned at the end?

Or, Freddy's trying to figure out who all might have seen them so they can make up the best story.

[AZLady]

Joran just keeps a talkin' and talkin' and talkin' and gets himself in deeper and deeper and deeper...

Hey, Joran, would you like to tell your story one more time?  Wait, let me get the camera rolling...  
   

[Silverfox]

Morning Monkeys and Happy Mother's Day....

the only thing I can contribute to the Honda Civic discussion is...I sat in the back seat of a Honda Civic for two weeks recently....can't see four people...even little, skinny ones...fitting in the back seat...and if the driver had a drop down screen mounted in front of his head, his vision would have been totally obscured...however, the driver was 6'1" and had size 12 shoes....

And i don't mean to beleaguer the point...but that is a minivan...It is a Honda Minivan....

Take a look at these series of interior photos by Motor trend -- now true, this is a 2006 model....

http://tinyurl.com/2krzoy

the pics could have been taken from a center seat...

[ldstlou]

well...it's a beautiful day here so heading out to my yard to plant a few plants in honor of my Mom and then hit the pool. Have a great day all. And Happy Mother's Day again!!

[klaasend]

Morning Monkeys and Happy Mother's Day....

the only thing I can contribute to the Honda Civic discussion is...I sat in the back seat of a Honda Civic for two weeks recently....can't see four people...even little, skinny ones...fitting in the back seat...and if the driver had a drop down screen mounted in front of his head, his vision would have been totally obscured...however, the driver was 6'1" and had size 12 shoes....

And i don't mean to beleaguer the point...but that is a minivan...It is a Honda Minivan....

Take a look at these series of interior photos by Motor trend -- now true, this is a 2006 model....

http://tinyurl.com/2krzoy

the pics could have been taken from a center seat...

I don't know enough about cars to know if it was a civic or a van.  What I do know is that Deepak, Joran, Freddy, Loco Stef, Bailey and Alyse were in that vehicle on Bailey and Alyse's last night in Aruba.  I also know that back in August 2005 I sent all the information we had on the photos and all to the family.  I also know that on August 29, 2005 both Bailey and Alyse were interviewed by the FBI.

[Silverfox]

Morning Monkeys and Happy Mother's Day....

the only thing I can contribute to the Honda Civic discussion is...I sat in the back seat of a Honda Civic for two weeks recently....can't see four people...even little, skinny ones...fitting in the back seat...and if the driver had a drop down screen mounted in front of his head, his vision would have been totally obscured...however, the driver was 6'1" and had size 12 shoes....

And i don't mean to beleaguer the point...but that is a minivan...It is a Honda Minivan....

Take a look at these series of interior photos by Motor trend -- now true, this is a 2006 model....

http://tinyurl.com/2krzoy

the pics could have been taken from a center seat...

I don't know enough about cars to know if it was a civic or a van.  What I do know is that Deepak, Joran, Freddy, Loco Stef, Bailey and Alyse were in that vehicle on Bailey and Alyse's last night in Aruba.  I also know that back in August 2005 I sent all the information we had on the photos and all to the family.  I also know that on August 29, 2005 both Bailey and Alyse were interviewed by the FBI.

Yes, and it is important to ask why or how Deepak had access to such a vehicle (especially after just having been releases from jail (is that right?) and why is he associated with so many different vehicles over the course of the investigation?

[San]

You know, I'm very interested in what Anna said about JR. I've always thought she was so involved because someone was paying her a lot of money, as a media person, to help with the disinformation campaign. What if, on the other hand, she was involved because she's done something that could possibly get HER in trouble if the whole truth came out about Natalee's death. Hmmmm............

It sure does make you think doesn't it BT.  Why throw yourself in the middle of a murder investigation.  I agree that Julia is hiding something big.

[San]

And, does he put it into the book to try and say that Freddy had his dates wrong??  He always seems to "adjust" his story when another piece is unveiled.  He won't say Freddy lied...he just has his days off...what a piece of work..

Right Buckeye.  He will say the Kalpoes lied and the girl who accused him of rape is crazy but he will never go against Freddy.  I find that very strange.

Is Joran afraid of Freddy.

[BTgirl]

You know, I'm very interested in what Anna said about JR. I've always thought she was so involved because someone was paying her a lot of money, as a media person, to help with the disinformation campaign. What if, on the other hand, she was involved because she's done something that could possibly get HER in trouble if the whole truth came out about Natalee's death. Hmmmm............

It sure does make you think doesn't it BT.  Why throw yourself in the middle of a murder investigation.  I agree that Julia is hiding something big.

Well, she has been involved to an unusual extent. I mean, why has she spent so much time trying to confuse the issue, giving out false information, etc? It would make a person pause and wonder how she became so enmeshed in everything.

[klaasend]

Morning Monkeys and Happy Mother's Day....

the only thing I can contribute to the Honda Civic discussion is...I sat in the back seat of a Honda Civic for two weeks recently....can't see four people...even little, skinny ones...fitting in the back seat...and if the driver had a drop down screen mounted in front of his head, his vision would have been totally obscured...however, the driver was 6'1" and had size 12 shoes....

And i don't mean to beleaguer the point...but that is a minivan...It is a Honda Minivan....

Take a look at these series of interior photos by Motor trend -- now true, this is a 2006 model....

http://tinyurl.com/2krzoy

the pics could have been taken from a center seat...

I don't know enough about cars to know if it was a civic or a van.  What I do know is that Deepak, Joran, Freddy, Loco Stef, Bailey and Alyse were in that vehicle on Bailey and Alyse's last night in Aruba.  I also know that back in August 2005 I sent all the information we had on the photos and all to the family.  I also know that on August 29, 2005 both Bailey and Alyse were interviewed by the FBI.

Yes, and it is important to ask why or how Deepak had access to such a vehicle (especially after just having been releases from jail (is that right?) and why is he associated with so many different vehicles over the course of the investigation?

The photos in Bailey's webshot album with Deepak, Joran, Freddy and Loco Stef were taken in March 2005 before Natalee was even in Aruba.  Please see this thread:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=663

I would like to know how many vehicles Deepak had access to as well.