Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Tamikosmom]

Unless there is a quote from a named official spokesperson of the investigation, friend/spokesperson of the McCanns or the McCanns themself regarding what evidence the PLE has or has not gathered ... I am no longer going to consider seriously any conflicting publication or media report.

Janet


Portuguese police 'don't have enough evidence to charge Madeleine's parents'
14.09.07

Portuguese police do not have enough evidence yet to charge Kate and Gerry McCann over the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.

Senior sources admitted there was "nothing concrete" to bring a prosecution.

A source at the Policia Judiciara said today: "There are lots of indications but without more elements it is impossible to determine what has happened in the almost four hours vital to the case from 6pm [on 3 May, when Madeleine vanished].

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23412241-details/Portuguese+police+'don't+have+enough+evidence+to+charge+Madeleine's+parents'/article.do

[festa]

Festa - in the above article, it is also interesting what the PLE considerssolved.

People who do not confess??? sounds like they have a specific standard they follow and it involves shoddy investigations and then baffling theories and then a conviction based on mystery evidence.

Yes, Rob, especially considering that she looked like this after they beat her:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article2948191.ece

And I didn't think I would find myself "defending" Murat, but this paragraph (below)from the article, PLE says they DID have Murat working for them early in the investigation, but what really concerned a British journalist about Murat was when she asked PLE if he was working with them/translating and they said NO - this is when the British journalists really started to question his involvement because he was reminscent of a case they worked on where someone who was seemingly helping was actually the suspect - I am so confused.....


A senior officer said: “He offered himself as a translator to the police and in the beginning there were no suspicions of him. Last Saturday he was used as a translator in Portimao when police interviewed a witness. At that time we already had suspicions so we didn’t use him to do important interviews. But we thought if we said that we didn’t need him it would be worse because it could alert him.”

[festa]

McCann's hire PR agency

Kate and Gerry McCann have hired a new PR agency to help manage an increasingly sceptical media. Hanover, the agency owned by John Major's former press secretary Charles Lewington have been given the brief.

The McCanns are currently fighting to clear their name after allegations were allegedly made by the Portugese police regarding the disappearance of their missing four-year-old daughter.

The poor treatment of the MacCann's in the press is apparently something Lewington, managing director of Hanover, feels very strongly about and wants to help.

The McCanns previously used Bell Pottinger crisis management consultant Alex Woolfall (who represented holiday firm Mark Warner), Sheree Dodd, a former spokeswoman for the Government, and former treasury special advisor Justine McGuinness.

[festa]

Safe pair of hands for McCanns 
 
Named as suspects in Madeleine McCann's disappearance, her parents are being advised by Michael Caplan QC, who successfully fought efforts to extradite General Pinochet from the UK.

As Kate and Gerry McCann headed back to their Leicestershire home for the first time since their daughter Madeleine disappeared, they were visited by a man few recognised. Michael Caplan QC is one of the UK's top criminal solicitors. Joshua Rozenburg, the Daily Telegraph's legal editor has followed his career.

"When he went to see the McCanns last Sunday, he went in through the front door. But it was very clear to me that none of the photographers outside recognised him. As he was wearing a dark suit, they probably thought he was a police officer. He is not the sort of man who struts the stage and attracts attention to himself."

Neither Mr Caplan nor Kingsley Napley, the firm in which he's a partner, are strangers to controversy. One of the founders of the firm, Sir David Napley, was solicitor to the former Liberal leader Jeremy Thorpe when he was tried for conspiracy to murder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6995499.stm



 

[Rob]

Festa- you are confused because you are not easily swayed. Just because a LE agency claims something does not always make it so.

It's like this - there are many people out there that think just because then police have arrested someone they must be guilty. That is not always so. Most of us know that, but some can't get it into their thick skulls that sometimes the police and the prosecutors lie...does the name Mike Nifong ring any bells? It even happens in a free Republic.

[festa]

Rob, why did they lie to the press when they asked if Murat was working/helping/translating for them?  They caused the suspicion to fall on him.  Why lie?

[festa]

Kate and Gerry were talking about a new baby says Kate's father
Exclusive by Damien Fletcher and Stewart Whittingham 14/09/2007

Kate and Gerry McCann were planning to try for another baby before Madeleine went missing, Kate's dad said yesterday.

The couple, who had fertility treatment to conceive their elder daughter, four, and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie, dreamed of a large family.

Kate's father Brian Healy, 67, said: "They've talked about it between themselves.

"Having another child was something they've been thinking about. But that was before Madeleine went missing.

 "Now all they want is Madeleine back, and they're not thinking about anything else.

"Children are the most important thing in their lives."

And he added: "Their marriage is incredibly strong and they will not fall apart through this.

They've always been incredibly close as a couple."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/09/14/kate-and-gerry-were-talking-about-a-new-baby-says-kate-s-father-89520-19789157/


Of course, this is just heresay, but this lets the wind out the sails regarding the - Kate can't handle her children scenario - diary is nothing more than a mother's frustration - Again, I thought she started the diary after her sister told her to, after Madeleine went missing, not before, The "leaks" in the press suggest the diary existed longer than that.

[Rob]

Rob, why did they lie to the press when they asked if Murat was working/helping/translating for them?  They caused the suspicion to fall on him.  Why lie?

exactly.. why lie?

did they know he was the culprit and then said to themselves 'whoops'????? We hired the killer / abductor.

How the heck are we gonna explain that!!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Would logic not dictate ... if the PLE turned over the gathered  evidence/ documents to the Prosecutor and ... the Prosecutor deems this gathered evidence/documents relevant enough to forward it to the Judge for his consideration in regards to charges ... maybe ... just maybe ... there is something in that dossier that connects the disappearance of Madeleine to her parents.

Mr. Murat was deemed a formal suspect (arguido) but ... his file never made it to the prosecutor ... let alone the judge.  Yet those who are of the opinion that the McCanns are somehow above suspicion are not enraged regarding the H--- on earth that Mr. Murat has been forced to endure ... a person who has never knowingly had a connection to Madeleine.

IF and ... I say IF ... it is revealed that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of this precious little girl following an unfortunate incidence ... it is my contention when I consider what was perpetuated against Mr. Murat ... these parents lack a conscience.

Janet

[vms]

Sergey Malinka spoke to Sky News just before it emerged his property had been searched in the hunt for Madeleine McCann.
Watch his interview here.

[vms]

Would logic not dictate ... if the PLE turned over the gathered  evidence/ documents to the Prosecutor and ... the Prosecutor deems this gathered evidence/documents relevant enough to forward it to the Judge for his consideration in regards to charges ... maybe ... just maybe ... there is something in that dossier that connects the disappearance of Madeleine to her parents.

Mr. Murat was deemed a formal suspect (arguido) but ... his file never made it to the prosecutor ... let alone the judge.  Yet those who are of the opinion that the McCanns are somehow above suspicion are not enraged regarding the H--- on earth that Mr. Murat has been forced to endure ... a person who has never knowingly had a connection to Madeleine.

IF and ... I say IF ... it is revealed that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of this precious little girl following an unfortunate incidence ... it is my contention when I consider what was perpetuated against Mr. Murat ... these parents lack a conscience.

Janet

One thing that makes a difference in my mind as far as Murat is concerned is that he called attention to himself by inserting (for lack of a better word) himself in the search/investigation.

The Prosecutor deems the evidence credible enough to forward to the Judge. The prosecutor reviews 4000 pages worth (as has been repoted) and within hours decides it needs to be forwarded to the judge? There must have been some MAJOR evidence. Which then begs the question to be answered, why they were not charged? None of it makes sense to me...

[Rob]

I think only Dugga can fix whatever is wrong with the Mirror Forum...

[Rob]

*Supposedly* there is going to be some type of news on the case at 10 England time according to the Mirror forum.

No idea what is going to be said.

[Tamikosmom]

Would logic not dictate ... if the PLE turned over the gathered  evidence/ documents to the Prosecutor and ... the Prosecutor deems this gathered evidence/documents relevant enough to forward it to the Judge for his consideration in regards to charges ... maybe ... just maybe ... there is something in that dossier that connects the disappearance of Madeleine to her parents.

Mr. Murat was deemed a formal suspect (arguido) but ... his file never made it to the prosecutor ... let alone the judge.  Yet those who are of the opinion that the McCanns are somehow above suspicion are not enraged regarding the H--- on earth that Mr. Murat has been forced to endure ... a person who has never knowingly had a connection to Madeleine.

IF and ... I say IF ... it is revealed that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of this precious little girl following an unfortunate incidence ... it is my contention when I consider what was perpetuated against Mr. Murat ... these parents lack a conscience.

Janet

One thing that makes a difference in my mind as far as Murat is concerned is that he called attention to himself by inserting (for lack of a better word) himself in the search/investigation.

The Prosecutor deems the evidence credible enough to forward to the Judge. The prosecutor reviews 4000 pages worth (as has been repoted) and within hours decides it needs to be forwarded to the judge? There must have been some MAJOR evidence. Which then begs the question to be answered, why they were not charged? None of it makes sense to me...

VMS ... as far as I am awar and ... my neighbour who has been following this case since day one ... nothing official has ever been revealed ...  which remotely suggests that Murat's motivation in assisting in the search efforts were anything but forthright.

I have no idea in regards to the procedure when it comes to determining what constitues implication in regards to the evendence gathered.  Obviously ... the prosecutor deemed what he reviewed in a short period of time in the McCann dossier  was in itself enough to warranted a judge's consideration.

It would appear that the PLE had not gathered sufficient evidence/documents in regards to Murat that justified forwarding it to the prosecutor.

Janet

[festa]

Would logic not dictate ... if the PLE turned over the gathered  evidence/ documents to the Prosecutor and ... the Prosecutor deems this gathered evidence/documents relevant enough to forward it to the Judge for his consideration in regards to charges ... maybe ... just maybe ... there is something in that dossier that connects the disappearance of Madeleine to her parents.

Mr. Murat was deemed a formal suspect (arguido) but ... his file never made it to the prosecutor ... let alone the judge.  Yet those who are of the opinion that the McCanns are somehow above suspicion are not enraged regarding the H--- on earth that Mr. Murat has been forced to endure ... a person who has never knowingly had a connection to Madeleine.

IF and ... I say IF ... it is revealed that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of this precious little girl following an unfortunate incidence ... it is my contention when I consider what was perpetuated against Mr. Murat ... these parents lack a conscience.

Janet

Just for clarification, I don't think the McCanns are "above" suspicion - I think everyone should be questioned, especially those closest to the victim in any case, BUT I question the "leaks" that conveniently make their way to the paper - I have also questioned why the PLE lied about Murat helping them, Why didn't they tell the journalist that he was indeed helping in this case?  Instead they told them NO.  IMO, because they all of a sudden began to rethink/question his role in all this, Like Rob said, it might look embarrassing to have the suspect working for you.  Maybe the McCanns or one of them did have something to do with Madeleine's disappearance - IDK, but if they did, like I said before, they are brilliant, amateur criminals -sociopaths, really - with very loyal friends indeed - because I don't see how they pulled all this off in a foreign country without help from some or all of those travel companions  - AND if Murat is innocent of everything the PRESS released about him, that should still be the least of our worries regarding the McCanns' conscience, IF they are guilty - They wouldn't have a conscience to do this and lie day after day to PLE, MET, their family, friends, THE POPE, and every person they came into contact with and everyone of us who have read and listened from day one.  As far as the dossier goes, I guess time will tell - I've heard anywhere from 9 days till weeks for it to be completely read through - I don't know Portugal law (or much US for that matter) but I have seen supposedly massive amounts of evidence go through to a judge to only later be thrown out - Duke U - so I guess we'll see -
And Murat still peaks my curiousity - him and Malinka - why lie to PLE about knowing each other, when the night Madeleine disappeared there are phone calls logged between the two - short term memory? - And Malinka erasing HDs - Why? -

[Tamikosmom]

Would logic not dictate ... if the PLE turned over the gathered  evidence/ documents to the Prosecutor and ... the Prosecutor deems this gathered evidence/documents relevant enough to forward it to the Judge for his consideration in regards to charges ... maybe ... just maybe ... there is something in that dossier that connects the disappearance of Madeleine to her parents.

Mr. Murat was deemed a formal suspect (arguido) but ... his file never made it to the prosecutor ... let alone the judge.  Yet those who are of the opinion that the McCanns are somehow above suspicion are not enraged regarding the H--- on earth that Mr. Murat has been forced to endure ... a person who has never knowingly had a connection to Madeleine.

IF and ... I say IF ... it is revealed that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of this precious little girl following an unfortunate incidence ... it is my contention when I consider what was perpetuated against Mr. Murat ... these parents lack a conscience.

Janet

< snipped >

And Murat still peaks my curiousity - him and Malinka - why lie to PLE about knowing each other, when the night Madeleine disappeared there are phone calls logged between the two - short term memory? - And Malinka erasing HDs - Why? -

festa ... if there is official comfirmation of your words ... I do find this very suspicious.  I would appreciate if you could provide me with a source.

Thank you.

Janet

[vms]

VMS ... as far as I am awar and ... my neighbour who has been following this case since day one ... nothing official has ever been revealed ...  which remotely suggests that Murat's motivation in assisting in the search efforts were anything but forthright.

I have no idea in regards to the procedure when it comes to determining what constitues implication in regards to the evendence gathered.  Obviously ... the prosecutor deemed what he reviewed in a short period of time in the McCann dossier  was in itself enough to warranted a judge's consideration.

It would appear that the PLE had not gathered sufficient evidence/documents in regards to Murat that justified forwarding it to the prosecutor.

Janet

Like I said, none of it makes sense to me.

...And your previous comment about lack of conscience. Boy, that wouldn't even begin to cover it, huh? They would be the lowest of the low. Hard to even comprehend.

Janet, I like reading your point of view even when we don't agree. Your opinions are always logical and make me think. I may be the most gullible person on earth but I never want to believe a parent is capable of harming a child even though I know its happened far too often. 

[Tamikosmom]

Would logic not dictate ... if the PLE turned over the gathered  evidence/ documents to the Prosecutor and ... the Prosecutor deems this gathered evidence/documents relevant enough to forward it to the Judge for his consideration in regards to charges ... maybe ... just maybe ... there is something in that dossier that connects the disappearance of Madeleine to her parents.

Mr. Murat was deemed a formal suspect (arguido) but ... his file never made it to the prosecutor ... let alone the judge.  Yet those who are of the opinion that the McCanns are somehow above suspicion are not enraged regarding the H--- on earth that Mr. Murat has been forced to endure ... a person who has never knowingly had a connection to Madeleine.

IF and ... I say IF ... it is revealed that the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of this precious little girl following an unfortunate incidence ... it is my contention when I consider what was perpetuated against Mr. Murat ... these parents lack a conscience.

Janet

... AND if Murat is innocent of everything the PRESS released about him, that should still be the least of our worries regarding the McCanns' conscience, IF they are guilty - They wouldn't have a conscience to do this and lie day after day to PLE, MET, their family, friends, THE POPE, and every person they came into contact with and everyone of us who have read and listened from day one.[/b]
 

festa .. we will have to agree to disagree on this aspect of the topic.  I contend ... if the McCanns have knowledge pertaining to their daughter's disappearance ... it would imply that the Pope, family, friends and others would have been deceived by those without a conscience but ... none of these people have ever been declared a formal suspect in the Madeleine McCann case.  festa ... if you were innocent and the McCanns knew it ... put yourself in Murat's place.

Janet

Janet

[festa]

Janet,

this is a link with audio of the British journalist, Lisa Campbell where she says she spoke to police on the scene and asked about Murat translating and he said, that is highly unlikely - I had a better actual video but it would take me a little longer to find - hope this helps

Warning - this below is only heresay comment from a youtube video regarding murat and the suspicions journalists had about him
I have been informed from a credible source that Murat is on the watch list here in the UK for having downloaded child pornography whilst living here. He is on the database which keeps track of known offenders who move abroad. Enough said.
------------------------------------

Detectives have reportedly discovered that Mr Murat telephoned Mr Malinka on his mobile at 11.40pm on the night the four-year-old disappeared.

Police sources claim there had been a series of calls between the pair that day despite Mr Malinka allegedly claiming they hardly know each other.

They were also seen talking in an "animated" fashion by surveillance officers following Mr Murat in the days after Madeleine's kidnap, sources said.

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In interviews with three different journalists in the past week, Mr Malinka's story has allegedly changed. He is said to have told one reporter, hours before he was detained, that he had not seen Mr Murat for three months.

In another interview after he was released by police he reportedly said he had not spoken to Mr Murat for "around a year".

He told The Daily Telegraph on Thursday he "could not recall". Asked again last night to clarify, he said: "I have never officially talked about when I last spoke to Robert."

-------------------

Regarding your last post, Janet, I'm sorry if you took what I wrote the wrong way - I am serious - If they are guilty, this would be astounding - I am not declaring they are innocent - but just as in the case of Murat and Malinka we are receiving "leaks" which we now know are suspicious - not everything we hear/read is true, is it - a lot of sifting here - here's another snippet from an article regarding Malinka:

Says Malinka: “It’s definitely not me. I’ve just had my residency papers approved and checks are always made for criminal convictions. I’ve none whatsoever. I did do some work for Robert. He wanted a website created and I got it together.”

But the Sun hears Portuguese TV report that Malinka has convictions for “sex crimes.” Does he have any criminal convictions? “Not as far as I know,” says Moscow-born Malinka.
-------------

Portuguese TV was reporting that Malinka had sex crime convictions - where did they get that from? "leaks"? from who?  AND they asked him if he had any criminal convictions and doesn't reply NO - says Not as far as I know???!!!
or not as far as we can tell? that was a suspicious response, sorry...

If someone asked you if you had criminal convictions, wouldn't you say, absolutely not!

And the descrepancy with Malinka and Murat knowing each, claiming not very well, haven't spoken in a year, 3 years, but OOPs we just called each other homes the night that Madeleine went missing - that is enough to peak one's curiousity with this pair coupled with the fact that Murat was helping out and the PLE doesn't seem to think so, and Malinka is a computer expert with many computers in home, which reportedly 1 or more had their HD cleaned - again, maybe that is just a "leak" and not true, we just don't really know -

[festa]

OK, I have asked this question regarding the truth about Malinka and Murat - regarding child porn - again "leaks" - or press exaggerations - could this be at the root of the Malinka allegations:


Russian IT operative, Sergey Malinka, who was (it was reported) claimed by a workmate once to have boasted about underage sex

Not convicted but workroom chat -

and regarding Murat:

Allegations have swirled around about computers on which pornographic websites have been accessed; but as a large proportion of computers worldwide would answer to that description and the claims have been neither confirmed nor elucidated, I shall not pursue these.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article2324200.ece


So did Murat have porn on his computers and not child porn as was reported?  IDK - they were still sketchy about knowing each, don't know why that was OR if Malinka really did erase some HDs.