Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[festa]

Just the same way that they left the children unattended, and I mean everyone that evening, I am bothered by the washing of Cuddle Cat - many people are - and I am of the mind that, this being my child's favorite toy, I would want to have this last piece of her that she touched, my only connection, I couldn't wash that away - That just strikes me odd - (guess this is more an observation than question) Any reason given as to why it needed to be cleaned and so soon after, 4 days, I believe has been reported - But in the same respect, Kate was the one (I believe) who mentioned to the police that Cuddle Cat was on a shelf and that Madeleine was put to bed with the toy - indicating that someone (an adult or someone tall) put it there because Madeleine could not reach - ???? - IF the McCanns did something, why mention the toy? forgot to get rid of it? washing of the toy bothers me - ANY more on the washing of the sheets?

Ok, here I go again. 

I read that she washed it because of the condition it was in when returned to her after testing???
I dunno...

OK, sorry - just asking - I missed that point, like many here have missed things I have posted days or weeks earlier - I was just asking -

[BlueKYGirl]

I am bothered by the washing of Cuddle Cat.  

Me too, festa. It's one of the many little details that don't add up for me in this case. I really want the McCanns to be innocent, and more than anything I want the Madeleine to be found alive and safe...but I'll settle for justice, even if the details seem unthinkable.

I think it's sweet that Kate carries Cuddle Cat with her, and I understand because every day I choose one of my baby's little outfits and hang it up in my room to look at. When I travel, I take something of hers--I know she is with me everywhere I go, but I like to have a tangible reminder of my sweet little girl. It's hard to wait these months to meet her, and if I could somehow have something that been held by her or worn by her--that smelled like her--you can believe I wouldn't wash it. It is troubling that Kate would wash away that connection to Madeleine, and I also must ask why.

[Rob]

Janet - here is the article on the 11:40 pm phone call between Murat and Malinka.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_headline=a-phoney-alibi%2D%26method=full%26objectid=19131086%26siteid=89520-name_page.html

A PHONEY ALIBI?
THE HUNT FOR MADELEINE: 11.40pm call on the night she went missing Murat told police he was at home in bed Russian: We have not spoken for a year
Vanessa Allen And Martin Fricker In Praia Da Luz Vanessa.Allen@Mirror.Co.Uk 19/05/2007

<snipped>

Rob ...  thank you.

I want to bring to your attention ... an unrevealed communication record is the only source offered to readers in this article which attempts to implicate Robert Murat in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  Vanessa Allen and Martin Fricker ... the authors of this article ... do not even make an attempt to source the remainder of their allegations.  Rob ... this is tabloid journalism at its best (worse?).  Anyways ... you know what I mean.

Janet

Janet- I concede you are absolutely correct. I do not know the extent of it until this 'evidence' began to be leaked on the McCanns. And as Festa has correctly pointed out, 'if it is good for the McCanns, it is good for Murat'...

I trusted Brunt, Fricker and Allen in their reporting until I saw for my own eyes that they were being led around by their noses. It was apparent that the evidence purported to exist against the McCanns was not going to materialize or was not going to have only one explanation in a court of law.

I take it all with a grain of salt (now anyway). And do not believe any of it anymore. I believe what happened last week was an attempt, through the media, to shake the McCanns loose, and it didn't work. Now they (PLE) are all back (probably) to trying to figure out how to save this case. Trying a confession route without the goods will not work on the innocent, or the guilty.

You asked me for the article and I provided it. I am not responsible for it's content. 

[vms]

Just the same way that they left the children unattended, and I mean everyone that evening, I am bothered by the washing of Cuddle Cat - many people are - and I am of the mind that, this being my child's favorite toy, I would want to have this last piece of her that she touched, my only connection, I couldn't wash that away - That just strikes me odd - (guess this is more an observation than question) Any reason given as to why it needed to be cleaned and so soon after, 4 days, I believe has been reported - But in the same respect, Kate was the one (I believe) who mentioned to the police that Cuddle Cat was on a shelf and that Madeleine was put to bed with the toy - indicating that someone (an adult or someone tall) put it there because Madeleine could not reach - ???? - IF the McCanns did something, why mention the toy? forgot to get rid of it? washing of the toy bothers me - ANY more on the washing of the sheets?

Ok, here I go again. 

I read that she washed it because of the condition it was in when returned to her after testing???
I dunno...

OK, sorry - just asking - I missed that point, like many here have missed things I have posted days or weeks earlier - I was just asking -

Festa,

I'm so sorry. I was eye rolling at myself for answering questions with no links to substantiate.
It wasn't at you at all! Sorry. 

[BlueKYGirl]

Yes, this is what I posted earlier, regarding the blinds, I do believe that is what he was trying to say, that someone messed with the blinds, BUT with your post from the Mirror forum regarding them being opened from the outside, that is different - that would suggest someone peering inside - Not quite sure I am getting how that works?  Are they glass shutters?  Again, I know, this is unsubstantiated, just post from a forum, but I think that is worth looking into -
regarding what he "actually" said, IDK if we know what he "actually" said - it depends on what press we read, I think...makes for a very confusing read -

Several people on the Mirror forum agreed that the blinds are designed that way--maybe they are on some sort of a track or something. I guess the advantage of the blinds is that people can sleep in their rooms with the windows open in hot climates and feel safe knowing that intruders can't enter from the outside because if they do the blinds will jam in their tracks (I'm assuming). They can only be opened from one side, according to these posters.

I'll try to find the thread, but I read every thread on there this morning so I can't make any promises. 

[Tamikosmom]

ROBERT MURAT

1.  When I consider there was an official press release which declared Robert Murat a formal suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann ... I speculate that the PLE do possess reasonable suspicions.

2.  When I consider that after four months there has been no an official press release declaring that Murat’s file has been passed up the chain of command to the prosecutor  … I speculate that evidence is lacking.

3.  When I consider that there has been no press release concerning details of in regards to suspicions … this wannabe detective's speculations cease.


KATE AND GERRY MCCANN

1.  When I consider there was an official press releases which declared that Kate and Gerry McCann are formal suspects in their daughter's disappearance ... I speculate that the PLE do possess reasonable suspicions.

2.  When I consider that there was an official press release which declared that the McCann's files was passed up the chain of command twice ... prosecutor and judge ... I speculate that reasonable evidence has been gathered to support suspicions.

3.  When I consider that there has been no press release concerning details in regard to suspicions as well as evidence gathered ... this wannabe detective’s speculations cease.

[Rob]

I get the feeling that some on the Mirror Board are trying the same tactics as Reality and Crew. Protect the whole gosh darn place of Algrave from a collapse in tourism. They are out in force and are hardcore. Very Hardcore. Bullying, name calling (ok I did some of that too, I admit it.. LOL), and telling people to adopt their theory or they would be ignored.

It's a classic over there. They try to discredit anyone and everyone.

After two years of seeing some of the mind set involved in the high profile cases, it is just a repeat of what we all have seen before.

[BlueKYGirl]

Yes, this is what I posted earlier, regarding the blinds, I do believe that is what he was trying to say, that someone messed with the blinds, BUT with your post from the Mirror forum regarding them being opened from the outside, that is different - that would suggest someone peering inside - Not quite sure I am getting how that works?  Are they glass shutters?  Again, I know, this is unsubstantiated, just post from a forum, but I think that is worth looking into -
regarding what he "actually" said, IDK if we know what he "actually" said - it depends on what press we read, I think...makes for a very confusing read -

Several people on the Mirror forum agreed that the blinds are designed that way--maybe they are on some sort of a track or something. I guess the advantage of the blinds is that people can sleep in their rooms with the windows open in hot climates and feel safe knowing that intruders can't enter from the outside because if they do the blinds will jam in their tracks (I'm assuming). They can only be opened from one side, according to these posters.

I'll try to find the thread, but I read every thread on there this morning so I can't make any promises. 

I cannot believe I found this, festa!

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14634

[BlueKYGirl]

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14634

Here's the pertinent text:

Did it not occur to anyone in the media to wonder why so many Spanish and Protuguese holiday properties have this type of roller shutter? It's because they are virtually impregnable from the outside: specifically the slats are designed with a 'tongue and groove' construction which ensures that if pushed up, they lock together into a flat board which jams in the top of the frame. The only way to open these shutters is by pulling them up using the tape from the inside. Put simply, under tension (when pulled up) the slats separate and the blind will roll, under compression (pushed up), the slats link together and the blind cannot be rolled.

Anyone in Spain or Portugal with a similar roller blind can prove this for themselves. Note, though, that this does not apply to the type of solid linked shutter commonly used on British shops.

This thread also deals with the statements of the other members of the McCanns' party, Rob--a lot of the people think Jane Tanner's statements are suspect.

I agree with you that people have agendas over at the Mirror forum, and many are quite mean and already have their minds made up one way or another. However, little details like the one above can sometimes prove to be all-important in the way the case plays out.

[Rob]

Yes, this is what I posted earlier, regarding the blinds, I do believe that is what he was trying to say, that someone messed with the blinds, BUT with your post from the Mirror forum regarding them being opened from the outside, that is different - that would suggest someone peering inside - Not quite sure I am getting how that works?  Are they glass shutters?  Again, I know, this is unsubstantiated, just post from a forum, but I think that is worth looking into -
regarding what he "actually" said, IDK if we know what he "actually" said - it depends on what press we read, I think...makes for a very confusing read -

Several people on the Mirror forum agreed that the blinds are designed that way--maybe they are on some sort of a track or something. I guess the advantage of the blinds is that people can sleep in their rooms with the windows open in hot climates and feel safe knowing that intruders can't enter from the outside because if they do the blinds will jam in their tracks (I'm assuming). They can only be opened from one side, according to these posters.

I'll try to find the thread, but I read every thread on there this morning so I can't make any promises. 

I cannot believe I found this, festa!

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14634

I find it amusing that this group on the Mirror says that the front door was unlocked and then harp on the blinds. As Tanner said, she claims to see the person (abductor) on the walk way. If the blinds can not be jimmied, then Tanner could be right. That makes their theory that a friend has committed this crime unlikely. Only Tanner says it is an unknown male. If the person goes out the window, then there are no witnesses, and Tanner is on the hook as she must have lied about the events on the walkway.

It can't be every scenario. Front door or window... one or the other already!!! 

[Rob]

Yes, this is what I posted earlier, regarding the blinds, I do believe that is what he was trying to say, that someone messed with the blinds, BUT with your post from the Mirror forum regarding them being opened from the outside, that is different - that would suggest someone peering inside - Not quite sure I am getting how that works?  Are they glass shutters?  Again, I know, this is unsubstantiated, just post from a forum, but I think that is worth looking into -
regarding what he "actually" said, IDK if we know what he "actually" said - it depends on what press we read, I think...makes for a very confusing read -

Several people on the Mirror forum agreed that the blinds are designed that way--maybe they are on some sort of a track or something. I guess the advantage of the blinds is that people can sleep in their rooms with the windows open in hot climates and feel safe knowing that intruders can't enter from the outside because if they do the blinds will jam in their tracks (I'm assuming). They can only be opened from one side, according to these posters.

I'll try to find the thread, but I read every thread on there this morning so I can't make any promises. 

I cannot believe I found this, festa!

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14634

I find it amusing that this group on the Mirror says that the front door was unlocked and then harp on the blinds. As Tanner said, she claims to see the person (abductor) on the walk way. If the blinds can not be jimmied, then Tanner could be right. That makes their theory that a friend has committed this crime unlikely. Only Tanner says it is an unknown male. If the person goes out the window, then there are no witnesses, and Tanner is on the hook as she must have lied about the events on the walkway.

It can't be every scenario. Front door or window... one or the other already!!! 

and just to add -
if what Puzzler post about Jeremy Wilks is correct, than Tanner is on the hook two times over.

The McCAnns I believe have claimed the blinds were jimmied and this is a huge contention point. That is what led to the thread in the first place. Not being a traveler to Praia Da Luz and Mark Warner I have no first hand knowledge.

This is looking to me like it can only be one or two things at this point. Tanner (for unknown reasons) or unknown pedophile. Any takers on this?

[BlueKYGirl]

If the person goes out the window, then there are no witnesses, and Tanner is on the hook as she must have lied about the events on the walkway.

It can't be every scenario. Front door or window... one or the other already!!! 

If this is true about the blinds, the intruder could have gone out the window; he just couldn't have gone in the window (and therefore would had to have known that the door was unlocked in the first place). But I believe that a stranger knowing the door was unlocked is unlikely, and this bit of hearsay does seem to trap Jane Tanner in her own story.

[vms]

[MuffyBee]

I used to see shutter like the ones you are all looking at when I lived near the coastline.  They make it very easy to close the place up for big storms.  I saw them used a lot for summer homes, because the homes could be secured when the families were away.

[vms]

Just curious, any suspicions about Wilkins?

[Rob]

If the person goes out the window, then there are no witnesses, and Tanner is on the hook as she must have lied about the events on the walkway.

It can't be every scenario. Front door or window... one or the other already!!! 

If this is true about the blinds, the intruder could have gone out the window; he just couldn't have gone in the window (and therefore would had to have known that the door was unlocked in the first place). But I believe that a stranger knowing the door was unlocked is unlikely, and this bit of hearsay does seem to trap Jane Tanner in her own story.

Excellent points Blue KY Girl. Could have gone out the window, but that takes knowing no one is outside to see you. Escaping with a child threw a window takes guts.

In the front door and out the window does not sem like the MO of a pro. However stranger things have happened.

In through a window and out through a front door when you have discovered or know that no one is home is more likely.


Your thoughts?

[BlueKYGirl]

In the front door and out the window does not sem like the MO of a pro. However stranger things have happened.

In through a window and out through a front door when you have discovered or know that no one is home is more likely.


Your thoughts?

I think so, too.

Do we know the set-up of the front door of the apartment. Specifically, was there an outside entrance, or did the apartment open into a hallway, to which only the other guests/resort staff would have access?

[Rob]

vms- thank you for the window photos. I cropped and blew them up and tried to see if there was anything identifiable, such as a break-in point. There was not or I would have naturally circle some stuff for you to all scrutinize. I do not see any area that indicates a break in.

does not mean it didn't happen, just means I see nothing.

[MuffyBee]

Smiling Kate McCann told by social services she WON'T lose her twins
By DAN NEWLING - More by this author » Last updated at 14:44pm on 17th September 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482136&in_page_id=1770
(snipped)A spokesman for the Leicestershire force said only: "If they require our assistance it will be considered".

• The McCanns received a rare piece of good news - they were told they will not lose custody of their two-tear-old twins.

The couple had been terrified that British social workers - prompted by Portuguese allegations that the couple harmed Madeleine - would take away Sean and Amelie.

Two social workers spent an hour with the McCanns last Thursday, during which they asked the couple about their childcare techniques.

A family spokesman confirmed that social services do not consider the twins to be in danger
(snipped)
-----------------------------------------------------
Kate McCann: My struggle to control 'very difficult' Madeleine
Last updated at 19:06pm on 17th September 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482238&in_page_id=1770&ct=5
Kate McCann has revealed that she struggled to control Madeleine McCann after the birth of her and Gerry's twins, it was revealed today.

Missing Madeleine would run around 'screaming...shouting for my attention', the mother-of-three said.

In an interview given to a Portuguese magazine before she was named as a suspect in the case of the four-year-old's disappearance, Kate also said the first six months of Madeleine's life were "very difficult" and that the girl had suffered from colic.
The revelations come as police said they were trawling through Kate's medical records amid suspicions in Portugal that she may have had a history of depression.

The detailed analysis of her medical notes could provide them with significant evidence against the GP, who is a suspect in the case of Madeleine's disappearance.

Speaking about Madeleine's upbringing, Kate, a 39-year-old GP, told Portugal's Flash! magazine: "She cried practically for 18 hours a day. I had to permanently carry her around."
(snipped)

[Rob]

Just curious, any suspicions about Wilkins?

vms- is he just another holiday traveler to Mark Warner, someone they know from back home, an associate, a doctor in employ at the same hospitals?

I just do not know enough about him.

Seems like he has no reason to lie, as his name is mentioned only once in this area.