Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Rob]

Rob I've seen "free" in some other forums or under comments, but would have no links for those. 

Muffybee- are these McCanns just incredibly cheap or stupid?

What kind of couple pays money to have IVF and then treats their kids as if they are replaceable? I understand why some think they are more deeply involved. I'm not sure I agree. Hopefully, time will tell one way or the other.

*I am assuming that IVF is an elective procedure in the UK socialized medical system. But then again, it could have cost them nothing*

[Tamikosmom]

Friday's Papers
Updated 22:56, Thursday September 20, 2007

The Daily Mirror says Gerry and Kate McCann are willing to take a lie detector test to clear their names and return the focus to the hunt for missing Madeleine.

vms ... thank you.

If this British publication is reporting the truth ... then I can only say ... "It is about time".

In the majority of missing children investigations in both the US and Canada that are the focus of media attention ... I have come to learn that when a child goes missing while under the care of the family ... the family is immediately investigated in the process of elimination.

John Walsh/wife, Marc Klaas/ex-wife and Mark Lunsford/ex-girlfriend … all parents of missing children … immediately volunteered to take polygraphs …so that respective investigative teams could eliminate them as suspects and move forward.

Considering the McCanns were the last persons to be observed with their daughter and ... by their own admission saw Maddie less that an hour prior to her being reported missing ... I believe it would be beneficial if these parents were to submit to lie detector tests and … eliminate the cloud of suspicion surrounding them and … thereby give the investigation into the disappearance of their daughter a more clearer focus.

I adhere to the reasoning of the following comment on July 7, 2007 ... prior to the McCanns being declared formal suspects ... by a reader of a British publication. I do not believe that his/her words are not meant to be malicious ... in my opinion they represent common sense.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.anorak.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann/174986.html

Long distance runner Says:
July 7th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

15. In fact, why haven’t the McCanns offered to talk to the child protection authorities and the UK police? They know how much they are being criticised on these, and so many other forums. They also know that they are being accused by more and more people of having some involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. That being the case, why aren’t they trying to “clear their name” - why don’t they offer to take a lie detector test?
 
If they have nothing to hide, such questioning and tests would completely absolve them, and the worst they could be accused of is neglect. They know well enough that very many people are accusing them of much more than neglect. If they could prove that is all they are guilty of, they would win so many more people over to their cause.

If you were in their position, and were innocent of any wrongdoing other than neglect, wouldn’t you want to clear your name? I know I would!

[Rob]

My feelings and all info I see tells me that the McCanns should have been investigate first. If they would have taken a polygraph in the first day or so, it could have allowed the police to looking in another direction. (I see they are possibly willing to take one now).

Since they were not properly investigated they are going through it now based on 'evidence' we do not know of.

If this 'evidence' exists today some of it could have existed in the initial days. The only stuff that would not have existed in the first days would be the evidence from the boot of the Renault, the trace samples taken to Britain and any recent phone calls that were tapped.

Now how did they get off track so fast and on to a pedophile? Who started that? It could have been Murat who mentioned it to the police. However I doubt that the people are going to change their investigative tactics based on a neighbor / translator. So did the police have any actual info here? or was it a hunch? I don't know.

So what got the police looking in another direction almost from the start? Every investigative body tells you to look at the parents first.

[vms]

YW, Janet. I agree. Although, I think the Mirror is a tabloid type paper, right?
Well heck, from what I've seen they all are. 

[MuffyBee]

pdh3 I see what you mean now.     Yes, I agree with you.  The investigation should continue and include other possible theories etc.  By focusing ALL attention and resources on the McCann's and only on the McCann's, without considering other avenues, Madeleine or her kidnappers, murderers (whatever has happened to this little girl) may be overlooked.  I think the whole investigation was botched from the beginning and it may not be recoverable. 

[Rob]

btw - Robert Murat refused to take a polygraph. Not that is an indication of guilty.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=456803&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

Madeleine suspect contacts Max Clifford to cash in on story
Last updated at 18:57pm on 22nd May 2007

<snipped>

Mr Clifford confirmed that Mr Murat had contacted him, but said he would not formally represent him unless he was cleared of suspicion of kidnapping-the four-year-old girl.

He said: "When I spoke to Robert he was in tears and said: 'I am innocent and I will prove I am innocent,' and thanked me for listening to him. I told him that provided he is cleared I will be happy to talk to him."

It was revealed today that Mr Murat, 33, has collapsed in front of his family as the strain of being the only suspect begins to tell.

It was the second time he had fainted since he was questioned over the probable abduction of Madeleine from her parents' Portuguese holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on 3 May.

Tuck Price, a family friend of the Murats, said: "He collapsed right in front of his entire family."

<snipped>

-----------------------------------------

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/7513


MADDY SUSPECT REFUSES LIE TEST
The McCanns wait in hope
Sunday May 20,2007
By Matt Drake


THE prime suspect in the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann last night refused an offer to take a lie detector test.

Robert Murat , 33, insists he did not snatch the four year-old.

But he has now hired a team of lawyers, fearing he could be arrested.

Police in the Algarve confirmed Murat is their chief suspect but under Portugese law they need further evidence before they can arrest him, let alone press charges.

It is believed they are waiting for the results of DNA samples. Yesterday it emerged that the jobless Murat, a former estate agent, had met Russian Sergey Malinka, the other man at the centre of the inquiry, the day before Madeleine was snatched.

Murat, whose claims of innocence are dogged by alleged inconsistencies, has refused to reveal what the encounter was about.

[Puzzler]

Rob....I'm wondering the same as you about whether selective prosecution or all involved in neglecting the children. 

Another thing that bothers me is all the confusion about who did what and when on the night Madeleine went missing.  The police want to question again McCann's friends who went on vacation with them (one of the reasons why Portuguese police has come to England to work with British police).  Inconsistencies..especially in the time line.  Is it just me? Or does anyone else ever wonder if all this confusion is on purpose by the Tapas 9?   You know...throwing up a smoke screen...to make it more difficult (cloudy) to find the truth. I sure hope not as that would bring the question of collusion into the fray.  But I do wonder...I could fully understand if there were small inconsistencies, but when the McCann's say they arrived for dinner at 8:30 and another one said they arrived at 8:55...that's quite a difference.

[Rob]

Saying you will prove your innocence two day later after refusing to take a lie detector tells me there's something fishy here too. Albeit through an unofficial spokes person. But the guy got Murat's mesage out anyway.

[Puzzler]

This is interesting and explains a few things....also note the last sentence.



in Correio da Manha today:

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/n.....&p=200

Madeleine McCann case
Scientist contradicts parents’ explanations

Antonio Amorim, the vice director of the Pathology and Immunology Institute at Oporto University, defends that DNA transference from a piece of clothing or from a sandal into the boot of a car is “virtually impossible”. The scientist guaranteed to CM that the hypothesis is merely academic and that he does not believe it could happen.

The issue was now raised by English newspapers which, citing from sources close to the McCann family, guarantee there are “innocent” explanations for the presence of DNA from Maddie in the car that was rented by the couple. One of them is the fact that the family moved houses (they left the Ocean Club and rented a villa in Praia da Luz), and ferried all the family’s belongings in the car boot. Madeleine’s sandals would have been inside the vehicle, and her biological residues would have transferred into the car.

“Theoretically, there can be contamination. But the hypothesis is virtually impossible, as the quality of the residue would have to be acceptable. There would also have to be perfect moisture conditions for the transference to occur, which is only possible in academical terms”, the scientist assures, also refuting the other explanation that was advanced by the child’s parents yesterday, that some of the collected residues could come from their twin children.

“When one tries to reconstruct DNA, one searches for target areas. A person’s DNA has a large interindividual diversity, something that is completely different, even among siblings. There is a kind of tombola among that which is transmitted to us from our parents, and it would be a gross mistake from the laboratory to mistake the DNA from the other children. It is again virtually impossible, as we are dealing with one of the world’s more prestigious labs.”

Antonio Amorim also stresses that he understands the delay from the English specialists in obtaining results. “They can, and they should take a lot of time. That is precisely what guarantees us there are high levels of reliability”, the specialist says, assuring he understands why the authorities have asked London to perform the tests. “It was an excellent option. Because it is a reference lab, and it is almost impossible to contest the results.”

PGR says there will be new diligences

The district general prosecutor of Evora, Luis Bilro Verao, released a statement yesterday about the Maddie case, guaranteeing that “no new interrogations were determined” from Maddie’s parents, because no new evidence has been collected. That diligence would have to be made in Portugal, and the prosecutor said nothing about the requests for clarification and evidence collection that will be made by a request letter to England. The prosecutor added, in a short note that clarifies very little, that the authorities “do not exclude any investigation line”.

“Diligences within the inquiry will proceed […] which will be developed according to the plan that has been established between both entities”, the prosecutor adds, confirming that, as the presupposition of the application of ‘termo de identidade e residencia’ have not changed, “the alteration of the coercion measure has not been promoted, as it has been considered the adequate measure according to the elements that have been collected”.

Couple fears having their cellphones under surveillance in England

Kate and Gerry fear that their cellphones may be under surveillance. This was the most recent of a new wave of news in the English press, which have been focusing more on the investigation than on the drama of the disappearance of the McCann couple’s daughter.

The re-entrance on scene by aide Clarence Mitchell, the day before yesterday, coincides with the new pattern. ‘The Sun’ publishes the alleged dismissal of DNA evidence that was collected by Portuguese police. The ‘Daily Mail’ published an article about rumours against the McCanns that would have started “hours after” the disappearance of Madeleine. It concludes that “the defamation campaign has failed and the McCanns’ friends question whether the police really searched for a kidnapper”. In the afternoon, the same newspaper revealed that the couple feared that their cellphones were under surveillance, and that their lawyers assumed that all conversations by electronic means were not safe. The couple even believes that this surveillance started in Portugal and continues in England.

A listing of the main titles makes the English press’ tone over the last few days clear: “We can explain DNA in our car”, “Police cannot prove Madeleine’s death”, or “Immediate mistakes may have compromised the inquiry”.

The ‘Daily Mirror’ revealed that Gerry has regained contact with the British prime minister through an aide. The next step is the campaign to refocus on the search of Madeleine’s kidnapper.

DETAILS

The explanations that are now advanced by “close sources” of the McCanns in order to justify the DNA matches that were found inside the car are new to the Portuguese investigators. This had never been said during the interrogations, and Kate did not answer those questions.

The McCanns’ lawyers are building their defense against DNA evidence and cadaver odour, based on other judicial cases. The couple’s defense team will meet with the lawyers of the alleged Omagh bomber, who has not been convicted yet because of controversy over DNA evidence.

Madeleine’s disappearance will originate a movie. There are not concrete details about the movie yet, but actors Russell Crowe and Kate Blanchett are being named for the roles of Gerry and Kate. Two major movie production companies are fighting for the movie.

(…)

The elements of Policia Judiciaria did not travel to London the day before yesterday, as was reported by several newspapers.

The process is still in Portimao’s courthouse. It has not been returned to Policia Judiciaria yet, which awaits its reception in order to resume diligences.

The Policia Judiciaria has not written the request letter yet, which will ask for new interrogations and searches at the McCanns’ house.

Clarence Mitchell, the new McCann aide, abandoned a salary that is equivalent to one hundred thousand euros per year, in order to assure the family’s defense.

[Tamikosmom]

btw - Robert Murat refused to take a polygraph. Not that is an indication of guilty.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=456803&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

Madeleine suspect contacts Max Clifford to cash in on story
Last updated at 18:57pm on 22nd May 2007

<snipped>


It was revealed today that Mr Murat, 33, has collapsed in front of his family as the strain of being the only suspect begins to tell.

It was the second time he had fainted since he was questioned over the probable abduction of Madeleine from her parents' Portuguese holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on 3 May.

Tuck Price, a family friend of the Murats, said: "He collapsed right in front of his entire family."

<snipped>

IF and I say IF ... it turns out that the McCanns are involved in the disappearance of their little girl following an incident that ended in unintended consequences ... I contend that the H--- on Earth which they allowed Murat to endure is bordering on the unforgiveable.

Janet

 

[klaasend]

REMINDER - DANA PRETZER TONIGHT



Also, Fred Rosen discusses OJ’s latest ordeal. Listen live tonight at 9PM Eastern

[Rob]

Janet I agree. But what they would / will have been accused of in Murat's case pales in comparison to what would have happened to their child.

Even if it is an accidental death in Maddy's case, pulling the 4 month long charade and disposing to a body is just plain evil.

m.o...

let me ask you this - if the McCanns take the polygraphs and pass, do you think Murat should take the same test?

If all pass, it would allow the police to possible look elsewhere. Or they might zero in on someone.

Also, if Murat refused after the McCanns pass would that taint your view of him? Could he be hiding something?

Assuming the McCanns do pass.

[Tamikosmom]

I have read a severalarticles from various publications which implied that at the end of May Robert Murat refused to take a lie detector test.  However ... none of the sources for those allegtions were official named/identified spokespersons for the investigation.

It is my understanding that the under Portuguese law ... something akin to Dutch law ... polygraphs are not a legal tool in the investigative process.

Think about it ... if Robert Murat was requested to take a polygraph by the Portuguese investigation ... considering the McCanns' file has passed to prosecutor and the judge ... it would be assumed that the Kate and Gerry have also been requested at sometime to submit to a polygraph and ... if they were ... they too must have refused.

Nevertheless ... there is nothing preventing the McCanns from volunteering to take a lie detector test in Britain.

Janet

[MuffyBee]

What about the questions the McCann's refused to answer?  (on the advice of their lawyer, of course)

[Rob]

What about the questions the McCann's refused to answer?  (on the advice of their lawyer, of course)

true true

[vms]

Madeleine's parents: 'We will take lie detector test to clear our names'
19.09.07
 
• Parents want to take lie detector test to clear names

• Friend says 'mystery man' was heading towards Murat's home

• Second Portuguese lawyer appointed for 'extra firepower'

• Portuguese authorities admit their case has stalled


Kate and Gerry McCann are prepared to take a lie detector test to clear their names.

The couple are so confident of their own innocence that would take the polygraph test in Portugal, a source close to the couple said.

And new details have emerged about the sighting of the "mystery man" the McCanns believe was their daughter's abductor.

For the first time, a friend of the couple claimed the stranger seen walking away from the Praia da Luz holiday complex on May 3, apparently with a child in his arms, was heading towards former chief suspect Robert Murat's home.

The McCanns' offer to submit to lie detector tests would only serve to help clear any public doubts about the McCanns' guilt or innocence, as polygraphs are inadmissible in Portuguese courts and are never used by Portuguese police during the course of investigations.

The source said last night: "If they were asked to take a lie detector test, of course they would agree.

"Kate and Gerry are happy to do anything that would help clear their names."

Lie detectors work by measuring physiological responses such as blood pressure levels, pulse rate and skin conductivity when the subject is asked questions.

Any significant difference in these rates as the subject gives answers to different questions, may indicate that the subject is lying.

The McCanns yesterday announced the appointment of a second Portuguese lawyer, bringing their legal team to four.

Rogerio Alves is president of the Portuguese Bar Association and has worked on some of country's most high profile cases.

He will work alongside the couple's current Portuguese lawyer, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, whom the couple appointed a month ago when they were accused in the Portuguese media of being involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

It is thought that Mr Alves' fees will be paid out of the £100,000 that Sir Richard Branson has donated towards to the McCanns' legal fund.

The new appointment means the McCanns have a fearsome legal team of lawyers working for them.

As well as the two Portuguese lawyers, they have also employed British solicitor Angus McBride and Michael Caplan QC, both of whom have formidable reputations.

Mr Caplan, in particular, is considered one of the country's foremost solicitors.

With his expertise and track record, he can charge upwards of £700 an hour for his services.

Yesterday all four lawyers had discussions with the McCanns at Mr Caplan's London office. The meeting lasted around around six hours.

Afterwards, the family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "It is effectively the doubling of defence skills. It helps to have extra firepower."

In Portugal the authorities admitted yesterday for the first time that their case had stalled - and that they are prepared to re-explore the possibility that she was snatched by an abductor.

They made it clear that the McCanns are still prime suspects in the inquiry, but that the case had reached "an impasse" after 141 days.

The news brought quiet relief to the couple, who saw it as a significant turning point in the campaign to switch the focus back to finding their daughter.

From 1,000 miles away in the UK, they watched events unfold yesterday after Wednesday's dramatic announcement that there was not enough evidence yet to warrant charges or reinterrogation.

The back-to-basics turnaround in the investigation was revealed by the national daily newspaper Diario de Noticias, quoting sources close to Luis Bilro Verao, the senior public prosecutor brought in to lead the case last week.

It reported that Mr Verao said: "The investigation has now entered an impasse."

All possible theories - abduction, accident, murder or innocent disappearance - would be reinvestigated.

The newspaper further reported that the kidnap theory, virtually abandoned after detectives pinpointed the McCanns as suspects, was "still on the table".

Other sources confirmed that new searches would be carried out soon at specific locations, aimed at finding either Madeleine or any clue to what happened.

While Mr Mitchell said the couple were relieved by the news that they would not face any immediate reinterrogation, he added: "There is still a long way to go in the legal process. They remain official suspects."


He said he could not discuss the DNA evidence at the centre of the police case, extracted from blood found in their holiday apartment and "bodily fluids" in the car they hired some 24 days after Madeleine disappeared.

But he added: "It's safe to say there are wholly innocent explanations for whatever the police may or may not have found in the car."

The McCanns, who could still be called back to Portugal if new evidence emerges, have also been offered help by a lawyer in Northern Ireland. Solicitor Paul Corrigan is defending an alleged Real IRA terrorist accused of murdering 29 people in the 1998 Omagh bombing.

The case has given him experience in challenging 'Low Copy Number DNA' or LCN DNA, a method of magnifying minute traces of body matter that are inadequate for more established DNA analysis.

Critics claims LCN DNA is not reliable enough to stand up in court - and it may be involved in the case against the McCanns.

And an intelligence expert has said photographs taken by spy satellites could hold the key to Madeleine's disappearance.

Professor Glees, who is director of Brunel University's Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, said the little-known Joint Air Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre, based at RAF Brampton, Cambridgeshire, is a world leader in analysing aerial and satellite imagery.

It could collect and examine all the imagery that can be found of Praia da Luz, where the McCanns were on holiday, dating back to May 2. "It is perfectly possible that the European Commission's satellites, which track fishing boats, may also be able to shed light on Madeleine's fate. JARIC will quickly tell us," he said.

Link

[vms]

Bomb man questioned in Madeleine McCann hunt
The times September 21, 2007

Fresh operations in the hunt for Madeleine McCann have been authorised by a Portuguese judge, with police appearing to accept the original belief that she may have been abducted by a stranger.

A convicted terrorist was questioned by detectives yesterday about whether he had helped to dispose of the body of the missing girl, as police began a desperate hunt for new clues. Eef Hoos, who owns an incinerator about 20 miles from where Madeleine disappeared, claimed that detectives from the PolÍcia Judiciária said that they knew he had spoken to the missing girl’s parents

Article Continues

Link

[vms]

Madeleine: Friend says 'mystery man carrying child' was heading towards Murat's home
Daily Mail - Last updated at 00:59am on 21st September 2007

New details have emerged about the sighting of the "mystery man" who the McCanns believe was their daughter's abductor.

For the first time, friends of the couple claimed that the stranger seen walking away from the Praia da Luz holiday complex on May 3, apparently with a child in his arms, was heading towards former chief suspect Robert Murat's home

The allegation raised new questions over whether Mr Murat could still be linked to the inquiry after fading into the background when the McCanns were named as formal suspects.

Article Continues

Link

[LouiseVargas]

I think this thread is blown up beyond belief as to why the McCanns did what they did.

I think this is the bottom line. Not all people are cut out to be parents. There is no training in school for what is the most important job in the world - to raise the next generation so they will be better than our generation.

The McCanns may be brilliant MDs but lousy parents. They may not know how to make the right decisions or even know if a decision is needed. They may just go with the flow because they are tired from work and inept, to boot. "Oh, we can leave the kids in the room and check on them from time to time. Let's go to dinner." Maybe this is their first wrong decision about the kids.

I had a brilliant uncle who worked as a trial attorney for the FDA. His wife was a brilliant artist and writer. They had three kids whose childhood's they bungled because they were in no way cut out to be parents.

It may just be that simple for the McCanns.

[MuffyBee]

Louise, maybe it's so.  I don't know.  The McCann's made some poor decisions and it has come back to haunt them.