Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Kermit]

Mister Robots

I disagree and this is why. I think your position comes from the mind-set of who you are as a father and you seem to me to be a very responsible father. I think you would not be a parent who would leave your child unattended, nor would you not know where your child is at all times.

However,

I believe these people, The McCann's, and their friends/associates, were of the mind-set that they were in a safe environment (much akin to Natalee Holloway and her friends) and they were close by and all of them checking in on the children making it okay in their way of thinking.

My thinking is: Spending time on blaming the parents & their friends for what is perceived as wrong, is not going to find this child. We need to collectively think who, what, where, and perhaps why. Look for patterns. WHO KNEW THIS CHILD? Perhaps a babysitter, friends, neighbors and not just look at the area they were at, but into the past of this families life. THINK in terms of criminal patterns of thinking and not our own. That is what will find this child I think.

This case along with Natalee's case and some other cases really demonstrates the lack of a world-wide set of standards that needs to be addressed as we are globally connected now. It no longer should be tolerated for polis forces to not have the same standards no matter what the crime in any country.

[Kermit]

just to add to my thoughts above:

The Donna Jou case is another example where a young lady goes off with someone she met on the internet and thinking she would go to the party and come home that night. She lies to her mother. This tells us that the parent would have disapproved and most likely not allowed her daughter to go off with the internet (pedophile).


Those are moi's thoughts Mister Robots. I'd pass the plate of flies to ya, but I think you'd rather have some oil.

[robots]

Mister Robots

I disagree and this is why. I think your position comes from the mind-set of who you are as a father and you seem to me to be a very responsible father. I think you would not be a parent who would leave your child unattended, nor would you not know where your child is at all times.

However,

I believe these people, The McCann's, and their friends/associates, were of the mind-set that they were in a safe environment (much akin to Natalee Holloway and her friends) and they were close by and all of them checking in on the children making it okay in their way of thinking.

My thinking is: Spending time on blaming the parents & their friends for what is perceived as wrong, is not going to find this child. We need to collectively think who, what, where, and perhaps why. Look for patterns. WHO KNEW THIS CHILD? Perhaps a babysitter, friends, neighbors and not just look at the area they were at, but into the past of this families life. THINK in terms of criminal patterns of thinking and not our own. That is what will find this child I think.

This case along with Natalee's case and some other cases really demonstrates the lack of a world-wide set of standards that needs to be addressed as we are globally connected now. It no longer should be tolerated for polis forces to not have the same standards no matter what the crime in any country.

disagreement is ok with me. it will only get the brains working better.


we dont know who was actually checking on whom
if they were really even checking

like i said, the "checking, but not really checking" makes NO sense to me, other than it makes the parents Look better to the public.

if you dont actually check on them and see them, are you really checking on them ?
know what i mean ?


these tapas 9, depending on which one of them, WERE the last known people to see the kids

as in the Natalee case, the last person to see them MUST be looked at carefully
very carefully

someone PLEASE, show me the EVIDENCE of an intruder ???
where is it??

or an ABDUCTOR ?

 

[robots]

1. lets leave the babies alone
2. lets leave the door unlocked
3. lets go check on the kids, by standing outside the door and listening to them... AND BY THE WAY, what the hell does that accomplish, honestly
if you stand outside of the door and dont hear anything, what does that tell you ?

are they sleeping
are they hurt and knocked out from falling
are they dead
are they even in there

its a LOAD of BULL CRAP

oh and then to top it off, lets go drink 58 bottles of wine

ok, im exagerating on the 58 bottles but the point is made

what exactly is THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCE?

1. is it to leave them unattended

or is it to

2. go get smashed but be nearby

or is it

3. all of the above

OR is it something difference


WARNING..they should not sell it, cause i aint buying it 

First, who says the door was unlocked?  I doubt it.  I can't even remember being in a hotel anywhere on earth where I could leave my room with the door unlocked -- even if I wanted to.  The doors to my many, many hotel rooms over the years all locked automatically.  That Mark Warner resort seems modern and upscale, so why should it be any different?  

Second, there is no credible evidence to suggest that the McCanns and/or their companions were seriously intoxicated.  Remember; this was a story leaked to the press by the (corrupt) Portugese police, who also leaked reports that the McCanns and their friends were all sexual swingers.  These were but transparent attempts on the part of the authorities to discredit the McCanns and thereby make the possiblity that they harmed their own child more credible to the public.  

Third, I too find the listening at the door story peculiar, and is the one thing I see that directs even the slightest suspicion on members of the group.  

Last, why would the McCanns leave their children in the room?  Here's a list of possible reasons (not that I necessarily agree with them):  

1)  The children were already asleep, so the McCanns were reluctant to wake them.  

2)  It was already the children's bedtime, so taking them to child care would upset their sleeping patterns.  

3)  Leaving them alseep in their hotel room to have dinner was not so different than leaving them alseep in their rooms back home while having a beer with the neighbors on the patio.  

4)  They wouldn't be left unattended for so long that they could get themselves into trouble.  Besides, they'd be asleep, which is when they're least at risk.  

5)  Random violence against children was so rare in the McCanns' and their friends' experience, that the possiblity might not even have crossed their minds.  

The McCanns were, of course, wrong in their analysis, but perhaps not so egregiously so given their socio-cultural context.  

i suspect it was unlocked,
otherwise, the people that were SUPPOSEDLY checking on them, what were they to do if there was a problem, SMASH the door down.... Oh....thats right the parents loaned them the keys to each one of them as they took turns checking on them......LOL

nawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[robots]

Mister Robots

I disagree and this is why. I think your position comes from the mind-set of who you are as a father and you seem to me to be a very responsible father. I think you would not be a parent who would leave your child unattended, nor would you not know where your child is at all times.

However,

I believe these people, The McCann's, and their friends/associates, were of the mind-set that they were in a safe environment (much akin to Natalee Holloway and her friends) and they were close by and all of them checking in on the children making it okay in their way of thinking.

My thinking is: Spending time on blaming the parents & their friends for what is perceived as wrong, is not going to find this child. We need to collectively think who, what, where, and perhaps why. Look for patterns. WHO KNEW THIS CHILD? Perhaps a babysitter, friends, neighbors and not just look at the area they were at, but into the past of this families life. THINK in terms of criminal patterns of thinking and not our own. That is what will find this child I think.

This case along with Natalee's case and some other cases really demonstrates the lack of a world-wide set of standards that needs to be addressed as we are globally connected now. It no longer should be tolerated for polis forces to not have the same standards no matter what the crime in any country.

they were 2 and 3 years old

maybe you change your mind when it is revealed the door was unlocked and the parents
were not checking on them as vigorously as we have been told 

[Rob]

Steve for the record I agree with everything you are saying and so far I haven't seen anything but theory and conjecture against the McCanns.


No evidence yet that anyone in the Tapas 9 or the McCanns have done anything to Madeleine. They have opportunity, but I don't see motive yet.

I don't think anyone has anything more than suspicion - possibly based on phone taps of conversations that the Portuguese police find incriminating.

[SteveDinMD]

1. lets leave the babies alone
2. lets leave the door unlocked
3. lets go check on the kids, by standing outside the door and listening to them... AND BY THE WAY, what the hell does that accomplish, honestly
if you stand outside of the door and dont hear anything, what does that tell you ?

are they sleeping
are they hurt and knocked out from falling
are they dead
are they even in there

its a LOAD of BULL CRAP

oh and then to top it off, lets go drink 58 bottles of wine

ok, im exagerating on the 58 bottles but the point is made

what exactly is THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCE?

1. is it to leave them unattended

or is it to

2. go get smashed but be nearby

or is it

3. all of the above

OR is it something difference


WARNING..they should not sell it, cause i aint buying it 

First, who says the door was unlocked?  I doubt it.  I can't even remember being in a hotel anywhere on earth where I could leave my room with the door unlocked -- even if I wanted to.  The doors to my many, many hotel rooms over the years all locked automatically.  That Mark Warner resort seems modern and upscale, so why should it be any different?  

Second, there is no credible evidence to suggest that the McCanns and/or their companions were seriously intoxicated.  Remember; this was a story leaked to the press by the (corrupt) Portugese police, who also leaked reports that the McCanns and their friends were all sexual swingers.  These were but transparent attempts on the part of the authorities to discredit the McCanns and thereby make the possiblity that they harmed their own child more credible to the public.  

Third, I too find the listening at the door story peculiar, and is the one thing I see that directs even the slightest suspicion on members of the group.  

Last, why would the McCanns leave their children in the room?  Here's a list of possible reasons (not that I necessarily agree with them):  

1)  The children were already asleep, so the McCanns were reluctant to wake them.  

2)  It was already the children's bedtime, so taking them to child care would upset their sleeping patterns.  

3)  Leaving them alseep in their hotel room to have dinner was not so different than leaving them alseep in their rooms back home while having a beer with the neighbors on the patio.  

4)  They wouldn't be left unattended for so long that they could get themselves into trouble.  Besides, they'd be asleep, which is when they're least at risk.  

5)  Random violence against children was so rare in the McCanns' and their friends' experience, that the possiblity might not even have crossed their minds.  

The McCanns were, of course, wrong in their analysis, but perhaps not so egregiously so given their socio-cultural context.  

i suspect it was unlocked,
otherwise, the people that were SUPPOSEDLY checking on them, what were they to do if there was a problem, SMASH the door down.... Oh....thats right the parents loaned them the keys to each one of them as they took turns checking on them......LOL

nawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Remember; every single hotel room I can remember having been in -- and there have been many over the years -- had an auto-locking door.  Therefore, if I were to have a friend check on something for me in any of those rooms, I'd have to give him a key.  This would be no big deal since hotel room keys for years have been in the form of key cards, either plastic or thin disposable cardboard, created on-demand by the desk staff. 

[robots]

the way i understand it...these were not like a typical HOTEL ROOM

A Mark Warner spokesman said counsellors are being flown out to the resort, which the firm has run for two years, to support the McCanns.
He said the apartment the family were staying in was surrounded by other apartments, all of which have “quite sophisticated” locks on the doors.


hmmmmmm..quite sophisticated

[robots]

Steve for the record I agree with everything you are saying and so far I haven't seen anything but theory and conjecture against the McCanns.


No evidence yet that anyone in the Tapas 9 or the McCanns have done anything to Madeleine. They have opportunity, but I don't see motive yet.

I don't think anyone has anything more than suspicion - possibly based on phone taps of conversations that the Portuguese police find incriminating.

where is the evidence of an abduction by a stranger ??

[Rob]

Steve for the record I agree with everything you are saying and so far I haven't seen anything but theory and conjecture against the McCanns.


No evidence yet that anyone in the Tapas 9 or the McCanns have done anything to Madeleine. They have opportunity, but I don't see motive yet.

I don't think anyone has anything more than suspicion - possibly based on phone taps of conversations that the Portuguese police find incriminating.

where is the evidence of an abduction by a stranger ??

The fact that Cuddle Cat was left behind is an indication that the person does not care about Madeleine or her well being let alone her happiness and the fact that she finds comfort in that small toy.

looks like an abduction to me... maybe I am wrong.

[vms]

FWIW:

MADELINE: HUNT LATEST
THE SEARCH FOR MADELEINE: DAY 11
By Simon Wright 13/05/2007

<snipped>

MADELEINE'S abductor got into the family's holiday flat through patio doors which had been left unlocked, the Sunday Mirror can reveal.

It was originally thought metal shutters at the front of the villa had been broken and jammed open.

But Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa has confided to former British chief inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor the shutters had been tampered with.

Mr Kirby, who led the Jamie Bulger inquiry in Liverpool and is now in Portugal, revealed it was the sliding patio doors of the ground floor apartment that allowed Madeleine to be quietly and quickly kidnapped.

The McCanns would have used the doors as they checked on their children during their meal. They had a line of sight to the apartment from the restaurant table, but a hedge obscured their view of the doors.

Mr Kirby said: "The window shutters are not involved. The door was left unlocked. The shutters are almost impossible to open from the outside."

Link

[robots]

Steve for the record I agree with everything you are saying and so far I haven't seen anything but theory and conjecture against the McCanns.


No evidence yet that anyone in the Tapas 9 or the McCanns have done anything to Madeleine. They have opportunity, but I don't see motive yet.

I don't think anyone has anything more than suspicion - possibly based on phone taps of conversations that the Portuguese police find incriminating.

where is the evidence of an abduction by a stranger ??

The fact that Cuddle Cat was left behind is an indication that the person does not care about Madeleine or her well being let alone her happiness and the fact that she finds comfort in that small toy.

looks like an abduction to me... maybe I am wrong.

sounds like you are referring to her parents... they didnt care if she fell down and knocked herself out.... when hitting the floor

cause, with their crazy logic, if no noise was heard from the apt.. all was ok inside
 

[robots]

off topic. maybe im just in a cranky mood but this new site set up
i find terrible slow to load

im on cable and all other sites load fast, except this one

 

[Puzzler]

News reports I've read say front door was locked but that the patio door was unlocked.

"If" and intruder entered the room and took Madeleine, why not go out one of the doors (and not a window)?

Why didn't the twins wake up when a multitude of people and police were in the apartment looking for Madeleine?

Just imagine the noise and confusion going on....why did neither twin wake up?

[robots]

FWIW:

MADELINE: HUNT LATEST
THE SEARCH FOR MADELEINE: DAY 11
By Simon Wright 13/05/2007

<snipped>

MADELEINE'S abductor got into the family's holiday flat through patio doors which had been left unlocked, the Sunday Mirror can reveal.

It was originally thought metal shutters at the front of the villa had been broken and jammed open.

But Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa has confided to former British chief inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor the shutters had been tampered with.

Mr Kirby, who led the Jamie Bulger inquiry in Liverpool and is now in Portugal, revealed it was the sliding patio doors of the ground floor apartment that allowed Madeleine to be quietly and quickly kidnapped.

The McCanns would have used the doors as they checked on their children during their meal. They had a line of sight to the apartment from the restaurant table, but a hedge obscured their view of the doors.

Mr Kirby said: "The window shutters are not involved. The door was left unlocked. The shutters are almost impossible to open from the outside."

Link

so, DOORS were UNLOCKED

 

[robots]

News reports I've read say front door was locked but that the patio door was unlocked.

"If" and intruder entered the room and took Madeleine, why not go out one of the doors (and not a window)?

Why didn't the twins wake up when a multitude of people and police were in the apartment looking for Madeleine?

Just imagine the noise and confusion going on....why did neither twin wake up?

sedated with something like a cold medicine...perhaps

puts MOST kids to sleep whey have the sniffles
and even when they DONT have the sniffles

 

[Puzzler]

When Kate checked on the children and found Madeleine missing, why did she run all the way back to the dinner table where her friends were, which was quite a distance away from the apartment, and leave the twins alone in the apartment?

[robots]

When Kate checked on the children and found Madeleine missing, why did she run all the way back to the dinner table where her friends were, which was quite a distance away from the apartment, and leave the twins alone in the apartment?

yea, and leave the other 2 alone in the apt....

i give her some slack due to panic and i give her some slack because of fright and i give her NO slack cause it was so stupid, therefore i am left with stupidity and she was really not skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered of a REAL INTRUDER


there was NO INTRUDER


hiding from the rocks about to be thrown my way

[vms]

<---Robots

[Puzzler]

AND....why NOT answer all the Portuguese police questions?  Even if the question was "did you accidentlally kill your daughter"?  No seems an easy enough word to say.  Even if asked 40 questions...maybe one or two you might not want to answer....but not answer 22 questions?  Wow!  Or even beyond Wow!

Per the newspapers, as of yesterday, the McCann's group of high-end attorneys had grown to four (4) !!!  Why?