Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[klaasend]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/09/29/new-madeleine-suspect-seen-in-stairwell-89520-19866730/

New Madeleine suspect seen in stairwell
Brit tourist spotted

By Lucy Turner 29/09/2007
 
A british tourist seen "hiding" in a stairwell outside Madeleine McCann's apartment on the night she disappeared was being investigated last night.

The new suspect, stocky and wearing two-tone glasses, was spotted by an Ocean Club worker just 12 metres from the flat. The employee, who did not want to be named, exclusively told the Mirror: "I'll never forget him.

"It was around 6pm on the day the little girl went missing. I saw this Englishman standing under the stairwell.

"He was round-faced and stocky, wearing light clothes and positioned so that he was monitoring the car park area, stairs and elevator. He was hiding and watching what was going on. I didn't see him at first. I was collecting some linen, bent down to pick it up and nearly bumped into him.

 "We gave each other a big fright and both jumped back. We moved aside for each other. But he didn't move away."

After Madeleine vanished from the Ocean Club later on May 3 the witness was interviewed routinely by police.

But he said a young officer seemed uninterested in what he had to say. Later, detectives arrived at his home and insisted he be re-interviewed.

He was taken to the police HQ in Portimao and asked to go through photographs. It is believed he managed to identify the suspect.

Speaking to the Mirror before his interview, he said: "They showed me lots of pictures and I pointed out the person I thought it was. I've been told not to say any more about it." Asked by the Mirror why he had not pressured police to take notice of his statement from the start, he said: "I was too scared."

The worker said he discovered the suspect was British when he spotted him a few days later.

Yesterday he refused to speak any further, stressing he had been warned not to talk about the investigation.

[Rob]

Lots of great comments about the case the last few days. And I'm glad robots is just about settled in.

I notice that the PLE believes Maddy is dead. And they may have info that does confirm this. I don't know if she is alive or not. I think absent of a body - we just don't know and I feel this case is different that Natalee's ~ No Corpse - No Case situation. I hope Maddy is alive.

In Maddy's case there seems to be only the parents that the PLE is focused on. And as I said, I'm not sure they are involved. I highly doubt it, but we have all been wrong before.

In Natalee's case suspects have been identified and continue to lie to this day. The absence of the body is what is keeping them out of jail. So there is more than ample motivation to keep Natalee hidden or permanently disappeared. The whole case appears to hinge on this one fact. (at least for the time being - as the suspects prolly have a back up plan should Natalee be found).

What worries me is the lack of concern to locate Maddy either dead or alive. The PLE seems content to play mind games and squeeze a confession out of anyone.

Another fact that worries me - how could the PLE get a conviction without a body? If the case is stalled due to a lacking body, how could any 'confession' hold any merit? All the confessions in the world will not be backed by evidence. Follow me here? Someone could confess and it all be erroneous and someone could be sentenced to jail based on nothing more than words.

I think it's the standard that worries me most of all. Or maybe I should say - a lack of standard(s).

This lack of standard(s) seems to be what got Ms. Cipriano incarcerated. If it has happened before it could certainly happen again and prolly will.

At this time, it does not look as if the PLE will be able to convict anyone of anything legitimately. And may try to ramrod their specific brand of Justice on someone or anyone. This is worrisome.

Another worrisome area is that fact that the PLE did not seem to care one way or the other that there was a picture of a young girl that looked like Maddy. What if they are wrong and do not take the necessary steps to recover her?

This looks like an investigation that has many holes and areas that just do not seem right to me.

[Tamikosmom]

I am very skeptical regarding the sources cited in the following article ... nothing official ... no names.  Portugese law does not permit media releases in regards to evidence gathered in an ongoing investigation.  I would then assume ... no matter what position is supported ... any article that claims otherwise without any credible backup should not be taken seriously.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++


36 minutes ago

Police still after parents
5:00AM Sunday September 30, 2007

Police in Portugal believe Kate McCann killed her daughter Madeleine in a 90-minute "gap" while her husband played tennis, it has been claimed.

Detectives think the child's body was stored in a fridge and moved to "various locations" around the family's holiday resort of Praia da Luz before it was placed in the boot of her parents' hire car and dumped, sources told a Portuguese newspaper.

<snipped>

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10466752

[Anna]

It was also suggested at some point that the parents might be giving the children cold meds to induce sleeping so thought I would post this article out today about the effects of some of those.

FDA: Stop giving cold, cough meds to toddlers
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/09/28/cough.medicines.ap/index.html
 
Excerpt:
 
An FDA review of side-effect records filed with the agency between 1969 and September 2006, found 54 reports of deaths in children associated with decongestant medicines made with pseudoephedrine, phenylephrine or ephedrine. It also found 69 reports of deaths associated with antihistamine medicines containing diphenhydramine, brompheniramine or chlorpheniramine.

Most of the deaths were children younger than 2.

The Baltimore petition came on the heels of a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that found more than 1,500 toddlers and babies wound up in emergency rooms over a two-year period because of the drugs.
The move is part of a broader effort to remove from sale an estimated 200 unapproved prescription cough medicines made with the narcotic.

Manufacturers of any other unapproved hydrocodone medicines, beyond those intended for young children, must stop making them by December 31 and cease shipping them by March 31, 2008, the FDA said. It said the order applies to most of the hydrocodone formulations sold as cough medicines.

[Rob]

Ephedrine is a stimulant and is listed as a bronco-dilator. I have no idea how that could be used to induce sleeping. I used to buy supplements with Ephedrine to lose weight and to give me a better work out. It is illegal to sell it now. No products should contain it even though it is safe in small amounts. The few people who did die from it took more the 25 times the recommenced amount. Those people all had heart attacks from uncontrolled rapid arrhythmia.

I also know that Meth has some ingredients that are found in your local Walgreens. Some of these items have been taken off the shelves.

[Anna]

Our meth problem is so bad some stores will only sell you one package of cold meds with pseudoephedrine.

Ritalin is also a stimulant in adults but is used to treat hyperactive/attention deficient disorder in children as such drugs frequently have the reverse effect on children before puberty.  I wonder if cold meds were found in the searches of the apartment and that is the cause for that speculation.  Would be interesting to know the actual content of any that happened to be found.

[SteveDinMD]

Our meth problem is so bad some stores will only sell you one package of cold meds with pseudoephedrine.

Ritalin is also a stimulant in adults but is used to treat hyperactive/attention deficient disorder in children as such drugs frequently have the reverse effect on children before puberty.  I wonder if cold meds were found in the searches of the apartment and that is the cause for that speculation.  Would be interesting to know the actual content of any that happened to be found.

Anna: 

I believe that PLE simply made up out of thin air allegations against the McCanns that they had been sedating their children as part of a calculated attempt to generate public antipathy toward them.  What would be the basis for such suspicion and belief?  You suggest that searches might have revealed the presence of cold medication.  On the other hand, more recent allegations (e.g. Madeline in the mini-bar) imply that the police didn't search well at all.  Even if they did find cold medication, so what?  I travel with cold medicine all the time, myself, and that doesn't make me a murderer.  Wait!  There's the fact that the parents are both, gasp, DOCTORS!  They MUST have done something to her!  After all, as doctors they have access to all sorts of powerful medications unavailable to the public, and as somewhat older parents of toddlers might be expected to be more readily flustered by childish antics, and therefore prone to medicinal intervention.  Lacking a specific basis in fact, this kind of reasoning is worthless, being nothing more than pure speculation.  Mrs. McCann is an anesthesiologist, by the way, which probably contributed to widespread acceptance of police allegations, the untutored public imagining what they thought to be a "connection."  That supposed connection, though, is really quite unreasonable when you think about it.  Given her professional background, how likely is it that Mrs. McCann OD'ed her own daughter?  I don't think very.  While I can't say with absolute certainty that the McManns aren't responsible for Madeline's disappearance, the multitude of unverifiable and mutually exclusive police theories of their complicity seem to me like grasping at straws. 

[Tamikosmom]

Steve

I have never read one article in any publication where a named official of the Portugese investigation implied that Madeleine McCann was drugged.  My limited research in this case reveals that the "overdose" allegation stems from an "investigative reporter for a French newpaper".

It should be remembered that under Portugese law no information regarding gathered evidence in an investigation is permitted to be released to the media.

However ... the following quote from an official spokesperson for Madeleine's parents is speaking from a foundation of knowledge ... the McCanns ... when she implies that DNA in the form of blood was located in the rental car.  While in Portegual the McCanns hired "Bell Pottinger crisis management consultant Alex Woolfall, Sheree Dodd, a former spokeswoman for the Government, and former treasury special advisor Justine McGuinness".

IMO

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++

Madeleine McCann 'died of sleeping pill overdose'
By Lucy Bennett
September 14, 2007 09:34am

FORENSIC tests show Madeleine McCann died of an overdose of sleeping pills, media reports said today.

Body fluids found in the boot of a car hired by the parents of the missing four-year-old British girl 25 days after she went missing in Portugal showed she had been sedated, according to a French newspaper which said it had seen the evidence.

France Soir said DNA results of the fluids showed Maddie had swallowed enough sleeping pills to cause an overdose.

Guilhem Buttut, an investigative reporter for the newspaper, said he had seen "hard evidence" about Madeleine's death in a report now in the hands of Portuguese prosecutors, the metro.co.uk news website reported.

Buttut said toxicological tests on the liquids "proved the little girl had ingested medicines, without doubt sleeping pills, in quantities large enough to cause an overdose".

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22416728-2,00.html

++++++++++++++++++

Parents of Missing British Girl Madeleine McCann Want to Leave Portugal
Saturday, September 08, 2007

But police said new forensic tests done on evidence gathered months after the girl vanished found traces of blood in the couple's car, said Justine McGuinness, a spokeswoman for the family.

+++++++++++++++++

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296150,00.html











 

[ldstlou]

I still can't believe no one wants to talk about the paedophile problem there!!! It is HUGE in my mind!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Madeleine: Portuguese detectives send British police 40 questions to ask the McCanns
By TOM WORDEN
Last updated at 22:12pm on 29th September 2007

Portuguese detectives plan to send a legal letter to their British counterparts outlining more than 40 questions they insist the parents of Madeleine McCann must answer.

The British police will then decide how and where the questions will be posed.

The move has been ordered by prosecutor Luis Bilro Verao, who issued a public statement earlier this month saying there was not enough evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann to order a fresh grilling about the little girl's disappearance.

<snipped>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=484765&in_page_id=1770

[Tamikosmom]

I still can't believe no one wants to talk about the paedophile problem there!!! It is HUGE in my mind!!!

ldslou

Idstlou

From a personal perspective  ... I believe that a indepth discussion pertaining to the pedophile rings in Portugual in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is ... akin to an indepth discussion  pertaining to the Columbian/Venezuela sex trade in relation to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  While both issues cannot be be overlooked in the process of elimination in the respective cases ... without any foundation ... these issues must not becomes distractions that directs the focus away from the last persons who were observed in the company of Madeleine McCann and Natalee Holloway.

As former police chief Gerold Dompig ... who had a foundational knowledge pertaining to what was going on within the Natalee Holloway investigation ... implied in regards to the last persons observed in the company of Natalee Holloway ....
 

Gerold Dompig
THE ABRAMS REPORT
Ocober 12, 2005

So sometimes people will ask us that, "Are you not tunnel-visioned? Maybe you should look at other possibilities." Of course. We did that. But we still feel that, every time you go on a path, a different path, that path leads back, comes back to these three boys.     


 

[ldstlou]

I still can't believe no one wants to talk about the paedophile problem there!!! It is HUGE in my mind!!!

ldslou

Idstlou

From a personal perspective  ... I believe that a indepth discussion pertaining to the pedophile rings in Portugual in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is ... akin to an indepth discussion  pertaining to the Columbian/Venezuela sex trade in relation to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  While both issues cannot be be overlooked in the process of elimination in the respective cases ... without any foundation ... these issues must not becomes distractions that directs the focus away from the last persons who were observed in the company of Madeleine McCann and Natalee Holloway.

As former police chief Gerold Dompig ... who had a foundational knowledge pertaining to what was going on within the Natalee Holloway investigation ... implied in regards to the last persons observed in the company of Natalee Holloway ....
 

Gerold Dompig
THE ABRAMS REPORT
Ocober 12, 2005

So sometimes people will ask us that, "Are you not tunnel-visioned? Maybe you should look at other possibilities." Of course. We did that. But we still feel that, every time you go on a path, a different path, that path leads back, comes back to these three boys.     


 

I just truely believe it was an abduction.

[SteveDinMD]

Steve

I have never read one article in any publication where a named official of the Portugese investigation implied that Madeleine McCann was drugged.  My limited research in this case reveals that the "overdose" allegation stems from an "investigative reporter for a French newpaper".

It should be remembered that under Portugese law no information regarding gathered evidence in an investigation is permitted to be released to the media.

However ... the following quote from an official spokesperson for Madeleine's parents is speaking from a foundation of knowledge ... the McCanns ... when she implies that DNA in the form of blood was located in the rental car.  While in Portegual the McCanns hired "Bell Pottinger crisis management consultant Alex Woolfall, Sheree Dodd, a former spokeswoman for the Government, and former treasury special advisor Justine McGuinness".

IMO

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++

Madeleine McCann 'died of sleeping pill overdose'
By Lucy Bennett
September 14, 2007 09:34am

FORENSIC tests show Madeleine McCann died of an overdose of sleeping pills, media reports said today.

Body fluids found in the boot of a car hired by the parents of the missing four-year-old British girl 25 days after she went missing in Portugal showed she had been sedated, according to a French newspaper which said it had seen the evidence.

France Soir said DNA results of the fluids showed Maddie had swallowed enough sleeping pills to cause an overdose.

Guilhem Buttut, an investigative reporter for the newspaper, said he had seen "hard evidence" about Madeleine's death in a report now in the hands of Portuguese prosecutors, the metro.co.uk news website reported.

Buttut said toxicological tests on the liquids "proved the little girl had ingested medicines, without doubt sleeping pills, in quantities large enough to cause an overdose".

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22416728-2,00.html

++++++++++++++++++

Parents of Missing British Girl Madeleine McCann Want to Leave Portugal
Saturday, September 08, 2007

But police said new forensic tests done on evidence gathered months after the girl vanished found traces of blood in the couple's car, said Justine McGuinness, a spokeswoman for the family.

+++++++++++++++++

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296150,00.html











 

Though no named Portugese official has leveled specific allegations, it seems plain that there has been a pattern of unofficial leaks to the press -- all in violation of those famous Portugese investigative secrecy laws, I might add.  In the face of such a widespread defamation campaign waged by the Portugese government, the McCanns are well advised to obtain the best legal and public relations help possible. 

[SteveDinMD]

I still can't believe no one wants to talk about the paedophile problem there!!! It is HUGE in my mind!!!

ldstlou:

     I don't think anyone discounts the seriousness of the problem.  It's just that we're at a loss as to how to connect it specifically to Madeline's disappearance.  At least I am. 

[ldstlou]

I still can't believe no one wants to talk about the paedophile problem there!!! It is HUGE in my mind!!!

ldstlou:

     I don't think anyone discounts the seriousness of the problem.  It's just that we're at a loss as to how to connect it specifically to Madeline's disappearance.  At least I am. 

I know!! That is the frustrating part for me!!! How do we start digging for clues. I think the most significant news has been the maid who spoke out that she saw a stranger lurking in the stairwell. If only these quack reporters would follow up on some REAL leads instead of beating up on the parents w/ all of these unsubstantiated rumors and speculation!!!

[ldstlou]

oops, it was a worker and not a maid. I wish the reporters AND the PLE would follow up on the REAL leads!!!

After Madeleine vanished from the Ocean Club later on May 3 the witness was interviewed routinely by police.

But he said a young officer seemed uninterested in what he had to say. Later, detectives arrived at his home and insisted he be re-interviewed.

He was taken to the police HQ in Portimao and asked to go through photographs. It is believed he managed to identify the suspect.

[Anna]

Our meth problem is so bad some stores will only sell you one package of cold meds with pseudoephedrine.

Ritalin is also a stimulant in adults but is used to treat hyperactive/attention deficient disorder in children as such drugs frequently have the reverse effect on children before puberty.  I wonder if cold meds were found in the searches of the apartment and that is the cause for that speculation.  Would be interesting to know the actual content of any that happened to be found.

Anna: 

I believe that PLE simply made up out of thin air allegations against the McCanns that they had been sedating their children as part of a calculated attempt to generate public antipathy toward them.  What would be the basis for such suspicion and belief?  You suggest that searches might have revealed the presence of cold medication.  On the other hand, more recent allegations (e.g. Madeline in the mini-bar) imply that the police didn't search well at all.  Even if they did find cold medication, so what?  I travel with cold medicine all the time, myself, and that doesn't make me a murderer.  Wait!  There's the fact that the parents are both, gasp, DOCTORS!  They MUST have done something to her!  After all, as doctors they have access to all sorts of powerful medications unavailable to the public, and as somewhat older parents of toddlers might be expected to be more readily flustered by childish antics, and therefore prone to medicinal intervention.  Lacking a specific basis in fact, this kind of reasoning is worthless, being nothing more than pure speculation.  Mrs. McCann is an anesthesiologist, by the way, which probably contributed to widespread acceptance of police allegations, the untutored public imagining what they thought to be a "connection."  That supposed connection, though, is really quite unreasonable when you think about it.  Given her professional background, how likely is it that Mrs. McCann OD'ed her own daughter?  I don't think very.  While I can't say with absolute certainty that the McManns aren't responsible for Madeline's disappearance, the multitude of unverifiable and mutually exclusive police theories of their complicity seem to me like grasping at straws. 

Steve,

This thought had occurred to me long before it was ever suggested in the press.  Ditto for the storage of a body in refrigeration/freezer as evidenced on this thread.  I am far from dependent on PLE for methods by which this could have happened at the hands of the parents in this regard.

Also your above post seems to imply that I have suggested that the McCanns "murdered" this child and I have NEVER posted any such thing.  Please do not put words in my mouth in order to then ridicule them.

I just want those who had opportunity to be responsible for this disappearance investigated equally regardless of their high political connections and world-class PR firms.  Beth Twitty was also accused and questioned in regard to insurance scams and distribution of trust funds but she managed to deal without such massive support.  I have to wonder why this couple is so obsessed with their "name" and if that was a factor in covering up what was perhaps an accidental death.

Kate McCann is a General Practitioner by every account that I have read.  I have never once seen her described as an anesthesiologist except by you if you want to discuss inaccuracies.  I think it better to address our posts and not individual posters.

And no physician can predict an allergic reaction with certainly and usually not at all.  Otherwise, there wouldn't be them with regards to administration of medications.

My education is in medicine and I do know that many allergic reactions are cumulative and the histamines/antigens or reactions are stored in the body from past exposures for long periods of time.  With repeated exposure, the chances of an allergic reaction increase.  This was the sixth day of the vacation?  Having been married to a physician for 25 years, I highly doubt I harbor all manner of false concepts about them as your post also suggests.  (Middle son finishing up med school and have also worked with/around and been exposed to a few along the way as well but do not claim the expertise on physician behavior that some seem to do, and a long line of medical family--they're not much different than everybody else.)

Other than both having a missing child in a resort area, I see very little similar to Natalee's family in this tragedy and certainly nothing in the behavior of the mother in particular.

[Anna]

I still can't believe no one wants to talk about the paedophile problem there!!! It is HUGE in my mind!!!

That's all that was discussed during the first months so I am ready to look elsewhere.  This investigation was botched but I think more because of the massive PR campaign waged by the family from Day 1 than anything else.

Did that same concern with "their name" and appearances cause the parents to cover up what may well have been an accident?

PLE is certainly not focused ONLY on the parents in my opinion as we just watched them track down a lead on the little girl in Morocco.  There have been many, many others which they have followed up on with the assistance of Interpol.

This may well have been a stranger abduction but that is usually considered only after those with immediate and known access, motive and opportunity are eliminated instead of the other way around.

And sadly, children from the Eastern European/Old Soviet bloc countries are most often targets of pedophiles instead of the children of the very wealthy at resort for the reasons we are seeing how, the possibility of high profile coverage and being caught.

That's the same reason I never thought Natalee Holloway a likely target of trafficking.  Too many from Latin America for whom no one would raise a furor or even be able to do so.  A pro would pass on the rich American kid as well.

These are just my opinions and I do understand they are not shared by all nor do I think they should be.  Let's look at every possibility, however.

The Bushy Haired Stranger remains my least favored theory in almost all instances, however.  But I will readily concede that it does and can happen.

.

[Tamikosmom]

Steve ... considering that the McCanns were not questioned by Portuguese detectives who had allegedly flew to Britain On September 19, 2007 for that purpose ... which of the following sources revealed the truth ... the unnamed source or ... the official named source.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

Madeleine's parents expect police visit
September 19 2007 at 11:15AM  

London - The parents of missing girl Madeleine McCann are expected to be questioned by Portuguese detectives who have flown to Britain, press reports said Wednesday.

Kate and Gerry McCann, who are under suspicion by Portuguese police of having "accidentally killed" the four-year-old, were prepared for the interviews and had outlined their defence, friends said.

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=24&art_id=nw20070919110248534C552595


'No more questions' for Maddie's parents
From correspondents in Lisbon
September 20, 2007 05:23am

PORTUGUESE prosecutors said overnight that the parents of missing British toddler Madeleine McCann did not need to be questioned again about the disappearance of their daughter last May.

"New elements of proof - after interrogations on September 7 - have not gathered anything to justify new questioning, so it is not planned," said prosecutor general Luis Bilro Verao, quoted by LUSA news agency.

The prosecutor's office said police would continue the criminal investigation into Madeleine's disappearance and no lead would be neglected.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22449687-23109,00.html

[ldstlou]

I just want those who had opportunity to be responsible for this disappearance investigated equally regardless of their high political connections and world-class PR firms.  Beth Twitty was also accused and questioned in regard to insurance scams and distribution of trust funds but she managed to deal without such massive support.  I have to wonder why this couple is so obsessed with their "name" and if that was a factor in covering up what was perhaps an accidental death.

Anna,
I agree Beth was accused and questioned about alot of things, and she DID handle it with dignity and grace, but she did have some high powered people backing her up. She also took alot of heat for the meeting w/ Condi Rice. I think when you are dealing w/ the powers that be in a foreign country you do need to go straight to the top people for help...otherwise you will get mowed down.

I agree...the first people that should be looked at are the parents...I absolutely agree...but I have watched these people and I my gut says it is just not them that caused Maddie to dissappear. I think w/ all the publicity and attention, if they were responsible for something happening to Maddie, it would have come out by now. I felt the same way about the Ramseys, I just never bought that they were responsible for her death either. Did they do things as parents I would not have done? yes. Alot of people attacked them because they thought Jon Benet was exploited in the beauty pageants...but that did not make them killers imo. I think it is the same case here. The McCanns made a serious error in judgement by leaving those children alone. And they are paying DEARLY for that mistake, but I just don't think they did anything that caused her harm themselves.