Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Rob]

Thank God they have this new guy taking over the case!!! FINALLY, I believe, Maddie may have a chance to be found. This guy seems to have the heart and soul to go after the truth and not stop until he finds her.

...me too...

for the first time in 5 + months I feel there is a chance to find out what happened to Madeleine.

[ldstlou]

Thank God they have this new guy taking over the case!!! FINALLY, I believe, Maddie may have a chance to be found. This guy seems to have the heart and soul to go after the truth and not stop until he finds her.

...me too...

for the first time in 5 + months I feel there is a chance to find out what happened to Madeleine.

I agree. I think it is going to be ugly though, makes me sick to my stomach.

[Rob]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=488711&in_page_id=1770

'It took eight minutes to snatch Madeleine and only three to hide her body'
Last updated at 14:14pm on 20th October 2007

A three-dimensional reconstruction of the night Madeleine McCann disappeared and new evidence from Portuguese criminologists shows how quickly Madeleine McCann could have been abducted and then hidden from police.

The new findings from crime experts were revealed in a special investigation for a Portuguese television.

They concluded it would have taken less than three minutes to hide Madeleine's body and return to the resort where the McCanns were staying.

The investigators carried out their own reconstruction of events and found it would have been difficult to take the girl from the Ocean Club Resort on foot because it would have aroused too much suspicion.

Former police inspector Francisco Moita Flores told the programme: "There are so many theories, but she was taken dead or alive according to (police) dogs, down to the church.

"This would have to have been done by car. There is a piece of land behind the church and behind that is the sea.

"A car could take you from the apartment to the sea in 30 seconds, whichever route was used.

"Let's say something went wrong, we have about 40 seconds. If you add two minutes to dispose of the body by sea – that's little more than two and a half minutes at the most. It's would take just another 30 seconds to return to the resort."

A different model produced by a criminal psychologist appears to back the programme's findings.

Creating a three-dimensional model, Paulo Sargento used minute-by-minute breakdowns produced by several media sources to test all possible hypotheses regarding the possibility that Madeleine was snatched.

He concluded that, with the number of people passing by the Ocean Club resort, where the McCann family were staying, it would have been difficult for a would-be kidnapper to escape unnoticed from the apartment where Madeleine was sleeping with her twins siblings.

Mr Sargento, from Lusófona University in Lisbon, cross-checked the times of events from a number of sources from 4pm - when Madeleine was picked up kindergarten - until 10pm, when her mother Kate reported her missing.

He concluded that between 8pm and 10pm - the period Madeleine was left alone - members of the McCann party including their friends, got up from their meal a total of 14 times.

Dr Sargento told SIC television: “"There were people passing almost every five minutes.

"The question is how, in that time, could it be possible with so many people coming and going that no one saw someone coming in through the window without being seen? We have concluded this theory is very inconsistent."

The recreation of events has been made available to police investigators.

**photos included with this article** I did not copy them.

[SteveDinMD]

In reference to the above "recreations," why should we assume an abductor would have gained access to the apartment via the window?  He could have used the front door.  Any number of resort employees have pass keys, or could have deliberately left the patio door unsecured for future, unmonitored access.  Why should we assume an abductor would not have gone unnoticed?  The girl could have been concealed in a suitcase, or in a laundry cart, for example.  How much notice would that have generated?  Once safely away from the scene, an abductor would be free to take Madeline anywhere according to any timetable.  Then, again, there might have been witnesses after all, but they might not have appreciated the significance of what they saw and are therefore unknown to investigators.  One member of the McCanns' party actually told police that she saw a man carrying a child around the time of Madeline's disappearance and in the same vicinity.  Perhaps this person was an eyewitness to the abduction.  Why is this witness' testimony not given more weight?  Finally, why should we believe that Madeline was taken by a route that included a stopover at the church?  Cadaver dogs might have "reacted" there, but no evidence was found, so there is no good reason to believe that Madeline was ever there.  That said, there's no good reason yet to believe that she was not there, either.  According to my analysis, these recreations only further underscore how easily Madeline could have been abducted by a stranger. 

[ldstlou]

In reference to the above "recreations," why should we assume an abductor would have gained access to the apartment via the window?  He could have used the front door.  Any number of resort employees have pass keys, or could have deliberately left the patio door unsecured for future, unmonitored access.  Why should we assume an abductor would not have gone unnoticed?  The girl could have been concealed in a suitcase, or in a laundry cart, for example.  How much notice would that have generated?  Once safely away from the scene, an abductor would be free to take Madeline anywhere according to any timetable.  Then, again, there might have been witnesses after all, but they might not have appreciated the significance of what they saw and are therefore unknown to investigators.  One member of the McCanns' party actually told police that she saw a man carrying a child around the time of Madeline's disappearance and in the same vicinity.  Perhaps this person was an eyewitness to the abduction.  Why is this witness' testimony not given more weight?  Finally, why should we believe that Madeline was taken by a route that included a stopover at the church?  Cadaver dogs might have "reacted" there, but no evidence was found, so there is no good reason to believe that Madeline was ever there.  That said, there's no good reason yet to believe that she was not there, either.  According to my analysis, these recreations only further underscore how easily Madeline could have been abducted by a stranger. 

I think the above article hints too much that it was likely the parents again w/out actually coming out and saying so. And why is the former police investigator being quoted? Yes it would have only taken moments for a STRANGER to abduct Maddie and get away. I agree, there appears to be an eye witness to the fact, why are we NOT putting more weight on that testimony?

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7013949,00.html

McCann friends to be re-interviewed
Press Association
Monday October 22, 2007 1:38 AM

The friends who dined with Gerry and Kate McCann on the evening of their daughter's disappearance will soon be re-interviewed, the chief of Portuguese police have said.

Officers in the Madeleine McCann investigation will travel to the UK with a public prosecutor "in days", Policia Judiciaria national director Alipio Ribeiro told Spanish newspaper El Pais.

<snipped>

+++++++++++++++


From The Times
October 22, 2007
Police speak to Kate and Gerry McCann's friends
David Brown

Portuguese police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann will arrive in Britain this week to interview friends of the missing girl’s family, Portugal’s national police director has revealed.

Detectives and a public prosecutor will oversee interviews with at least four of the seven friends who had travelled to Praia da Luz with the McCann family when Madeleine was reported missing on May 3.

The most important witnesses are Russell O’Brien and his partner, Jane Tanner, who were dining with Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, at the Ocean Club on the evening that she disappeared.

Mr O’Brien, a hospital consultant from Exeter, was away from the table for about 30 minutes at around the time that Mr and Mrs McCann claim that their daughter was abducted. Ms Tanner claimed that she saw a man carrying a child away from the McCanns’ apartment.

+++++++++++++

[pdh3]

I wish I was more optimistic about Madeleine's case. I'm not sure she'll ever be found, and the truth of what happened to her that night might  never be revealed. The case may be "solved" but I have no faith in the Portuguese LE, and none in their ability to really find out the true events of that night, and who is really responsible. I believe the plan was to make the parents the fall guys and be done with it. I don't think they expected the backlash and resistance they got, so now they have to redraw the plan to make it look like something substantial is being done.
I do see parallels to Natalee's case in Aruba, unfortunately, and it makes me very sceptical of the sincerity of the efforts of the Portuguese authorities. If the case is ever solved, I think it will be by someone other than the LE in Portugal.

[Tamikosmom]

Police chief confident Maddy case will be solved
By Gerard Couzens
Monday October 22 2007

PORTUGAL'S top police officer is confident that his officers will solve the Madeleine McCann case.

Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the Policia Judiciaria, insisted yesterday: "I am convinced that sooner or later we are going to have a result.

"I cannot say when. But I am optimistic. Many similar cases have lasted longer and were resolved in the end.

"In every investigation there is a key moment, a click that clarifies everything and helps you to reach the end. We just haven't reached that key moment yet," he added.

The police chief also confirmed the PJ plans to re-interview the friends who were with Gerry and Kate McCann the night Madeleine disappeared -- the so-called Tapas Nine.

In an interview with Spanish newspaper 'El Pais', Mr Ribeiro also admitted his officers had leaked information on the case to the press.

"There have certainly been leaks but less than what it seems," he said.

Asked about former lead detective Goncalo Amaral's belief Madeleine died the night she disappeared on May 3, he told the paper: "There is indeed a theory that has gained some truth and is stronger than the others, but we're not excluding anything."

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/police-chief-confident-maddy-case-will-be-solved-1200958.html

[Rob]

>>>This is from 24 Hora. No link available. I copied it from Mirror Board and it has started a thread already 9 pages long. 24 Hora appears to be a Portuguese paper and someone on the board translates the articles to English.


Murat may have hidden the body of Maddie

Robert Murat, a friend of the couple McCann, is the main suspect of having done away the body of Madeleine, on May 3 last. This is the belief of researchers linked to the Portuguese case. But not yet have been obtained evidence to confirm this theory, found the 24 from sources close to the investigation.
So the new team led by Paulo Rebelo, senior official of the Judicial Police, is to check in detail all the steps that have been taken to the day that Maddie disappeared, and in that followed has been given the warning to the authorities.
But until yesterday, had no clue of the whereabouts of the girl concrete. Live or dead. Following this, the house of Murad will again be visited by the authorities this week.
"There is a period between 18 and the 22 hours that is full of contradictions that need to be clarified. This means that McCann and friends who were having dinner with them to be heard again. Except that this task must be done by British authorities, since the homes they provided to the Court were to Leicestercity. In Britain we do not have authority, unless it is officially requested our cooperation, which has not happened, "explained the 24 judicial source .
The main theory of researchers from the PJ who were linked to investigations from the beginning is that in the house of McCann were accommodated the children of all couples who participated in the dinner held at Tapas-as 24 advanced in its edition on 9 October. What can explain the fact that revezarem to confirm that the children were well. The PJ has only a confirmation - obtained from residents of the venture - that the only apartment actually visited by participants at the dinner was that of McCann.
The Judiciary believes that while jantavam, the small Maddie have left the apartment in search of the parents and, ensonada, dropped the bid of ten existing ladders off the apartment, dying in accidental and ultimately be discovered by Gerry McCann, who then, have requested the help of Murat.
The fact that it can be under the effect of sedatives-second source of the National Institute of Legal Medicine, the twins were dormant with suporíferos-have led, for professional reasons, the couple is the undoing of the body. To this end, they will have contacted Robert Murat, that advised to return to the restaurant. In that period, the friend will have loaded the body and transported to their home, located about 200 meters from the apartment where he lived the McCann. What has happened since is a mystery. The only clue that there are the alleged fluids belonging to Maddie and which were discovered in the minibus they rented Renault Scenic 25 days after the disappearance of the child.
Who is discarded, Maddie?
"The body must have been stored in the home of Murat, and later the couple or someone with access to the car discarded from it. But we are talking about conjecture. Nothing is proven. So the work of revision of evidence now is being done is extremely important. People can also bring new visions to the new case. We are in a phase of internal analysis of everything that was done, but was made aware that all that was possible at the time ", ended an official of the Section Homicides of the PJ who requested anonymity because of the order issued by the prosecutor of "absolute silence on the case Maddie."
The big question of the authorities is only one: who, discarded and the body of Madeleine McCann.

[A's Fever]

Rob, if I am reading this correctly the article suggests that Murat and the McCanns were friends.  This is a departure from earlier stories in which suspicion is cast on Murat because he was seen at the crime scene by friends of the McCanns and because he became such a visible part of the police investigation, apparently unusual for a "translator".  He became a suspect because he was in the middle of things and didn't belong there, however to my knowledge he never said, as a defense, that he was there to assist his friends.

If a link between Murat and McCann can be established it would certainly raise suspicions since both are currently suspects.  But IIRC there has been no hint of a relationship between the two men before.   

[A's Fever]

And one other thought, does anyone remember if cadaver dogs were used in the search of Murat's home, the kind of dog used to sniff the car boot? Thanks.

[Rob]

Rob, if I am reading this correctly the article suggests that Murat and the McCanns were friends.  This is a departure from earlier stories in which suspicion is cast on Murat because he was seen at the crime scene by friends of the McCanns and because he became such a visible part of the police investigation, apparently unusual for a "translator".  He became a suspect because he was in the middle of things and didn't belong there, however to my knowledge he never said, as a defense, that he was there to assist his friends.

If a link between Murat and McCann can be established it would certainly raise suspicions since both are currently suspects.  But IIRC there has been no hint of a relationship between the two men before.   

Hi ya A's Fever.. nice to see you again... Yes, you are correcto! I have found no evidence they are connected other than possibly living in Exeter over 20 years ago.

He never said he was there to assist 'friends' - again you are correct.

There has been a boat load of speculation about whether or not they know each other. Nothing concrete from anyone - not the PJ and no one from Britain.

[Rob]

And one other thought, does anyone remember if cadaver dogs were used in the search of Murat's home, the kind of dog used to sniff the car boot? Thanks.

word from the Mirror Board is that the cadaver dogs did search Murat's home and 'wine cellar' - formerly known as a dungeon or underground lair.

I'm wondering how Malinka really fits into this now. Again - all speculation currently - but the new police chief seems to be shaking somethings up.

[Rob]

joaohonesto -  a Portuguese poster says - that Murat is only suspected of the 'disappearance' of Madeleine and not an abduction. Seems to be a translation issue. 

Murat could be accused to disposal or removal.. but not the death or abduction. It's all kinda sketchy right now. I hope that made some kind of sense.

[Rob]

whatatangledweb



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 240

   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject:    Report this post Reply with quote

Why is Murat suspicious?

Did NOT request arguido status - made arguido by PJ, so presume must have something on him = FACT

Does not have alibi for all night. No alibi before 8.00pm when his mother returned home = FACT (From Murat's own mouth)

His (mother's) home was literally within a stone's throw away = FACT

Has local info and contacts = FACT

Was seen hanging around outside OC at 10.00ish by Pennington = One person's word, unreliable at that

Was in desperate state to hire another car asap, despite already having his own car to use = Person's word at car hire company

Refused point blank, on a number of ocassions to be interviewed on TV by Martin Brunt = Word of Martin Brunt

So what does all that lot add up to? Not a lot really. Most of those suspicions could apply to any Praia da Luz resident.

Unless the PJ have some more info.

(FACT appears courtesy of LucianDeville Enterprises)

[Rob]

For those wondering who or what Lucian Deville is - he / she is a Mirror Board poster that speaks in the third person and ends most sentences with the word - FACT, although most are not facts but speculation.

[Rob]

Madeleine's Nanny - Catriona Baker.


She and Pennington (the Nanny that heard Kate say 'They've taken her'). Were shipped to another location for about 4 months after Madeleine was reported missing. They have just arrived back in Praia Da Luz last week.

My http://del.icio.us/zoltanz -  a few good articles in there. Also - two independent workers place Murat at the scene and his detention on Arguido status appears to be more than his 'volunteer' work or alleged friendship with the McCanns.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=487506&in_page_id=1770

Revealed: The nanny who could help clear the McCanns' name
Last updated at 14:50pm on 14th October 2007

This is the nanny Madeleine McCann's parents believe will be a key witness in their fight to clear their names and find their daughter.

For five months the identity of the Mark Warner employee who was looking after Madeleine in Praia da Luz's Kids Club in the hours before her disappearance has been a closely held secret.

She was witness to the McCanns' movements during the week they were on holiday in Portugal and fed Madeleine less than three hours before she disappeared.

On the morning after Madeleine's disappearance it is believed she even told Portuguese police of a man she had seen acting 'suspiciously' around the apartments.

Today we can reveal her identity as 20-year-old Catriona Baker, the daughter of a nurse and draughtsman from Manchester.

The McCanns believe Ms Baker is a key witness in the defence that they are assembling with the aid of a team of lawyers and investigators.

Ms Baker has told friends she is convinced of the McCanns' innocence. She is still in contact with Kate McCann and was said by friends to have been hit hard by her charge's disappearance, even being offered trauma counselling by Mark Warner Holidays.

Intriguingly, Ms Baker revealed to one friend - spoken to by this newspaper - that she told Portuguese police of a man she saw acting strangely near the apartments in the days leading up to Madeleine's disappearance on May 3.

She was interviewed for just three hours by police on the morning after Madeleine's disappearance. This compares with the four-and-a-half hours endured by Charlotte Pennington, another nanny at the resort who was witness to Kate's 'hysterical' reaction to Madeleine's disappearance.

The Mail on Sunday has also learned that within 24 hours of that interview Ms Baker was dispatched by Mark Warner to take up a new position in the Greek resort of San Agostino along with four other members of staff.

They were all linked to the seven holidaymakers who had eaten in the resort's tapas restaurant with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

It is believed Ms Baker has since been reinterviewed by both British and Portuguese police but she has been told not to comment on the investigation.

The young nanny, described as 'fun and vivacious', has been deeply affected by Madeleine's disappearance, telling friends of nights without sleep and a complete loss of appetite.

Writing to one concerned friend nine days after Madeleine disappeared, she admitted: 'I was her nanny, so it's been tough for me, you wouldn't recognise me.

'It's hit me so hard I've hardly slept or eaten. My mum came to see me, but transferring me to "San Ag" has put me back at stage one as I am so stressed again.

'Love you loads, thanks for writing. I'm sorry I haven't been in touch, I have not been out of the house much.'

To another she added: 'Thanks so much for your support ... I am trying to cope, but not really liking "San Ag"... I don't plan on staying here. If they don't send me back to Portugal. I'll go home.'

She had been introduced to Gerry and Kate McCann on the first evening of their holiday at the Ocean Club resort as Madeleine's designated nanny and had developed a 'good relationship with the couple and especially with Madeleine', according to a friend.

On the day Madeleine disappeared Ms Baker had spent nearly six hours with the toddler, along with five other children aged between three and five. Two of those are believed to have been the children of the McCanns' friends, David and Fiona Payne.

Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, were placed in the resort's Kids Club, where Ms Baker worked, at around 10am while their parents took a stroll before collecting them at 12.30pm for lunch back at the apartment.

In the afternoon, the McCanns played tennis while Madeleine went back to her nanny at the children's club, who gave her tea at 5.30pm. Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were picked up by their parents at 6pm.

Ms Baker was not with the McCanns when the alarm was sounded over Madeleine's disappearance just before 10pm. However, she joined the search shortly after 11pm after completing her duties as a night babysitter.

Mark Warner did not return Ms Baker to Portugal from Greece and she has since left the company. She is now a live-in nanny looking after three children. Her location is being withheld on the request of the McCanns.

Ms Baker refused to comment about the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, adding: 'I don't want to go through it again.'

[Rob]

I discovered why there is not a link to the 24 Hora article. You need to be logged into read that site. Could be similar to some of the Dutch sites we try to visit. It appears to be password protected.

[Rob]

Also under new Portuguese laws -  someone who might be questioned in the case may become an Arguido before questioning may even begin.

This seems to be a new law aimed at weeding out the kind of thing that happened in the Cipiano case. Seems to be a fact and anyone who may become the next 'arguido' may in fact not be involved or even suspicious. Could be a protection issue.

Also - there will be a new round of questioning of the Tapas group in the next few days as Janet has posted. This could be in relation to that upcoming round.

[Rob]

Also under new Portuguese laws -  someone who might be questioned in the case may become an Arguido before questioning may even begin.

This seems to be a new law aimed at weeding out the kind of thing that happened in the Cipiano case. Seems to be a fact and anyone who may become the next 'arguido' may in fact not be involved or even suspicious. Could be a protection issue.

Also - there will be a new round of questioning of the Tapas group in the next few days as Janet has posted. This could be in relation to that upcoming round.

There is some disagreement over this and I will look into it further. Some are saying what I have said and others are saying that the suspect would be made an arguido before an arrest or detention.

Obviously you are a suspect before an arrest or detention and this could all be semantics.