Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[A's Fever]

whatatangledweb



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 240

   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject:    Report this post Reply with quote

Why is Murat suspicious?

Did NOT request arguido status - made arguido by PJ, so presume must have something on him = FACT

Does not have alibi for all night. No alibi before 8.00pm when his mother returned home = FACT (From Murat's own mouth)

His (mother's) home was literally within a stone's throw away = FACT

Has local info and contacts = FACT

Was seen hanging around outside OC at 10.00ish by Pennington = One person's word, unreliable at that

Was in desperate state to hire another car asap, despite already having his own car to use = Person's word at car hire company

Refused point blank, on a number of ocassions to be interviewed on TV by Martin Brunt = Word of Martin Brunt

So what does all that lot add up to? Not a lot really. Most of those suspicions could apply to any Praia da Luz resident.

Unless the PJ have some more info.

(FACT appears courtesy of LucianDeville Enterprises)

My memory about Murat is getting fuzzy at this late date, however I seem to remember that he either changed his alibi to say that he was in a bar OR he was spotted in a bar, I'll have to go back and see if I can find that.  Also, I thought he was spotted in or near the apartment by two or three of the McCann party.  Again, IIRC.

[A's Fever]

Also under new Portuguese laws -  someone who might be questioned in the case may become an Arguido before questioning may even begin.

This seems to be a new law aimed at weeding out the kind of thing that happened in the Cipiano case. Seems to be a fact and anyone who may become the next 'arguido' may in fact not be involved or even suspicious. Could be a protection issue.

Also - there will be a new round of questioning of the Tapas group in the next few days as Janet has posted. This could be in relation to that upcoming round.

There is some disagreement over this and I will look into it further. Some are saying what I have said and others are saying that the suspect would be made an arguido before an arrest or detention.

Obviously you are a suspect before an arrest or detention and this could all be semantics.

This case has you talking to yourself, Rob!   

Thanks for the info about the cadaver dog.

[Rob]

Also under new Portuguese laws -  someone who might be questioned in the case may become an Arguido before questioning may even begin.

This seems to be a new law aimed at weeding out the kind of thing that happened in the Cipiano case. Seems to be a fact and anyone who may become the next 'arguido' may in fact not be involved or even suspicious. Could be a protection issue.

Also - there will be a new round of questioning of the Tapas group in the next few days as Janet has posted. This could be in relation to that upcoming round.

There is some disagreement over this and I will look into it further. Some are saying what I have said and others are saying that the suspect would be made an arguido before an arrest or detention.

Obviously you are a suspect before an arrest or detention and this could all be semantics.

This case has you talking to yourself, Rob!   

Thanks for the info about the cadaver dog.

you're right it does... LOL.. actually there are a few here that follow the case and only having a few is sometimes better than all the maniacs on the Mirror Board. They're nuts over there. It's like FOBRU..

Janet and a few others will read the posts when they have time.

A's Fever, just so you know, we don't really know what is real and what is not. Trying to make heads or tails of this case is ... ahhh ahhh... not possible.. so I just follow it to see if Maddy is found or if anyone new gets dragged in and has the answers. No shot in hell of making any progress on this one.

No linking this to that and coming up with anything... it's all a hodge podge of rumor, innuendo, and speculation. Exactly the kind of case I usually like to stay away from, but I want to see that Maddy gets her Justice. So, I'll stick it out.

[A's Fever]

Yes, I'm aware of that and it is frustrating.  I don't post often but do read here regularly.  I also read at the Court TV board, but don't know why, as it is heavily skewed toward the McCann's guilt.  Based on all the non-existent evidence we have.

[Rob]

Very very interesting  - if true.


http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/mostranews.php?id=7944

 Análises a cabelos e fluidos não concluem se a menina estava viva ou morta

Publicada em 23/10/2007

Vestígios de Maddie na casa de Robert Murat
As autoridades portuguesas estão convencidas que recolheram vestígios – cabelos e fluidos corporais – que provam da presença de Madeleine McCann na residência de Robert Murat, o luso britânico constituído arguido no âmbi....

Para aceder por completo ao conteúdo do 24horas online, é necessário fazer Login

TRANSLATION AFTER A MEMBER LOGGED IN-
Analyses on hair and fluids don't conclude whether the child was alive or dead

Maddie's residues in the house of Robert Murat

The Portuguese authorities are convinced that they have collected residues - hair and bodily fluids - which prove the presence of Madeleine McCann in the residence of Robert Murat, the Anglo-Portuguese that was constituted an arguido within the process of the disappearance of the girl, on May 3, from Praia da Luz, in Lagos, Algarve.

"When the suspect's house was searched, several clues were detected that point to Maddie having been in that house. This is based on forensic tests that were performed both at the Scientific Police Lab and at the National Institute for Forensic Medicine", a high-ranking judicial officer told 24Horas. Those diligences, according to the same source, were made after the McCanns had rented the Renault Scenic, where fluids from the child were also detected.

"There was time for concealing and getting rid of the body", the same source said.

The problem is that evidence is not conclusive. "It has not been possible to confirm definitely if the residues belong to a living person or a dead person", the same source confesses.

"She may have been there alive." The relationship of the Anglo-British man with Maddie's parents is also under scrutiny. "Although [Murat] denies knowing the McCanns, we have been able to conclude that this fact does not match the truth. They [Murat and the McCanns] knew each other. But the fact that Maddie may have been in Murat's house is not enough to prove that he hid her body. She may have been there alive", the same source admitted.

A top officer at the National Institute for Forensics Medicine has also confirmed that tests were performed on residues that were collected in the house and from the vehicles of Robert Murat by PJ inspectors and confirmed that there is a possibility that the body was hidden there.

These samples would have been collected during two searches, that were performed on June 10 and August 4. When he was detained and constituted an arguido, on May 14, Murat did not see his house being thoroughly searched. It was not possible to determine during which one of these diligences the residues were found, which may compromise the Anglo-British man in the alleged disappearance of the little girl.

Another source that is connected to the investigations said that "only after all the forensic tests [which were performed by a forensic lab in Birmingham] are back, will it be possible to have more certainties".

Meanwhile, the McCanns' lawyers will deliver to British authorities a list with the names of 25 persons. The purpose is to "help clean the couple's names" and to make the Portuguese authorities to focus the diligences back into the direction of finding little Madeleine.

The McCanns continue to maintain the abduction theory.

[pdh3]

Rob - That is very interesting. Thanks for posting the article.

There is so much conflicting information about Maddie's case that we're all talking to ourselves just to try and make sense of it.

[ldstlou]

Also under new Portuguese laws -  someone who might be questioned in the case may become an Arguido before questioning may even begin.

This seems to be a new law aimed at weeding out the kind of thing that happened in the Cipiano case. Seems to be a fact and anyone who may become the next 'arguido' may in fact not be involved or even suspicious. Could be a protection issue.

Also - there will be a new round of questioning of the Tapas group in the next few days as Janet has posted. This could be in relation to that upcoming round.

There is some disagreement over this and I will look into it further. Some are saying what I have said and others are saying that the suspect would be made an arguido before an arrest or detention.

Obviously you are a suspect before an arrest or detention and this could all be semantics.

This case has you talking to yourself, Rob!   

Thanks for the info about the cadaver dog.

you're right it does... LOL.. actually there are a few here that follow the case and only having a few is sometimes better than all the maniacs on the Mirror Board. They're nuts over there. It's like FOBRU..

Janet and a few others will read the posts when they have time.

A's Fever, just so you know, we don't really know what is real and what is not. Trying to make heads or tails of this case is ... ahhh ahhh... not possible.. so I just follow it to see if Maddy is found or if anyone new gets dragged in and has the answers. No shot in hell of making any progress on this one.

No linking this to that and coming up with anything... it's all a hodge podge of rumor, innuendo, and speculation. Exactly the kind of case I usually like to stay away from, but I want to see that Maddy gets her Justice. So, I'll stick it out.

Don't stop Rob!!! You are doing a great job!! Maddie and her family need all the prayers and support they can get. I credit all the doubt and innuendo on the PLE. They have done their homework and know how to throw up smoke and mirrors!! Of course with the scandal at the orphanage, with all the high ranking people involved in that tragedy, I am SURE they had plenty of practice at cover-ups!! At least in Natalee's case we knew who the "sources" were!! There was never any doubt who was behind the cover-up. In Maddie's case, we just don't know who is behind the slander campaign against the parents. But common sense tells me, if it had been the parents, cops are not stupid, they have instincts, good instincts, and if it had been the parents, they would have been on to them long ago. I believe these are good people who made a tragic mistake, leaving their children alone in the apartment. A mistake they are paying for dearly. We owe it to Maddie to find the truth. Keep up the great work Rob, and don't give up!!

[MuffyBee]

Also under new Portuguese laws -  someone who might be questioned in the case may become an Arguido before questioning may even begin.

This seems to be a new law aimed at weeding out the kind of thing that happened in the Cipiano case. Seems to be a fact and anyone who may become the next 'arguido' may in fact not be involved or even suspicious. Could be a protection issue.

Also - there will be a new round of questioning of the Tapas group in the next few days as Janet has posted. This could be in relation to that upcoming round.

There is some disagreement over this and I will look into it further. Some are saying what I have said and others are saying that the suspect would be made an arguido before an arrest or detention.

Obviously you are a suspect before an arrest or detention and this could all be semantics.

This case has you talking to yourself, Rob!   

Thanks for the info about the cadaver dog.

you're right it does... LOL.. actually there are a few here that follow the case and only having a few is sometimes better than all the maniacs on the Mirror Board. They're nuts over there. It's like FOBRU..

Janet and a few others will read the posts when they have time.

A's Fever, just so you know, we don't really know what is real and what is not. Trying to make heads or tails of this case is ... ahhh ahhh... not possible.. so I just follow it to see if Maddy is found or if anyone new gets dragged in and has the answers. No shot in hell of making any progress on this one.

No linking this to that and coming up with anything... it's all a hodge podge of rumor, innuendo, and speculation. Exactly the kind of case I usually like to stay away from, but I want to see that Maddy gets her Justice. So, I'll stick it out.

Don't stop Rob!!! You are doing a great job!! Maddie and her family need all the prayers and support they can get. I credit all the doubt and innuendo on the PLE. They have done their homework and know how to throw up smoke and mirrors!! Of course with the scandal at the orphanage, with all the high ranking people involved in that tragedy, I am SURE they had plenty of practice at cover-ups!! At least in Natalee's case we knew who the "sources" were!! There was never any doubt who was behind the cover-up. In Maddie's case, we just don't know who is behind the slander campaign against the parents. But common sense tells me, if it had been the parents, cops are not stupid, they have instincts, good instincts, and if it had been the parents, they would have been on to them long ago. I believe these are good people who made a tragic mistake, leaving their children alone in the apartment. A mistake they are paying for dearly. We owe it to Maddie to find the truth. Keep up the great work Rob, and don't give up!!

In my opinion, what the McCann's did by leaving 3 year old Madeleine and the two twins alone in the apartment wasn't a mistake.  It was child neglect.    And it if anyone is paying dearly, it would be Madeleine.  I don't know what the McCann's or Murat or a pedaphile or anyone has had to do with Madeleine's disappearance because we the public haven't had the facts presented to us yet.  I couldn't say the McCann's are completely innocent either, because again, facts haven't been presented to the public yet.  The investigation is still ongoing.  I hope Madeleine can be found, but with each passing day, it looks for the worse.  I am not certain about a cover up in this case. Murat would have been an easier target if there was to be a cover up.  Remember the British authorities are in on this also.  If there is a cover up, it would have to include a lot of people in Portugal and Great Britain to do this.  I think the investigation at the start was flawed, by not securing the apartment as a crime scene, doing all the interviews and etc.

[ldstlou]

Also under new Portuguese laws -  someone who might be questioned in the case may become an Arguido before questioning may even begin.

This seems to be a new law aimed at weeding out the kind of thing that happened in the Cipiano case. Seems to be a fact and anyone who may become the next 'arguido' may in fact not be involved or even suspicious. Could be a protection issue.

Also - there will be a new round of questioning of the Tapas group in the next few days as Janet has posted. This could be in relation to that upcoming round.

There is some disagreement over this and I will look into it further. Some are saying what I have said and others are saying that the suspect would be made an arguido before an arrest or detention.

Obviously you are a suspect before an arrest or detention and this could all be semantics.

This case has you talking to yourself, Rob!   

Thanks for the info about the cadaver dog.

you're right it does... LOL.. actually there are a few here that follow the case and only having a few is sometimes better than all the maniacs on the Mirror Board. They're nuts over there. It's like FOBRU..

Janet and a few others will read the posts when they have time.

A's Fever, just so you know, we don't really know what is real and what is not. Trying to make heads or tails of this case is ... ahhh ahhh... not possible.. so I just follow it to see if Maddy is found or if anyone new gets dragged in and has the answers. No shot in hell of making any progress on this one.

No linking this to that and coming up with anything... it's all a hodge podge of rumor, innuendo, and speculation. Exactly the kind of case I usually like to stay away from, but I want to see that Maddy gets her Justice. So, I'll stick it out.

Don't stop Rob!!! You are doing a great job!! Maddie and her family need all the prayers and support they can get. I credit all the doubt and innuendo on the PLE. They have done their homework and know how to throw up smoke and mirrors!! Of course with the scandal at the orphanage, with all the high ranking people involved in that tragedy, I am SURE they had plenty of practice at cover-ups!! At least in Natalee's case we knew who the "sources" were!! There was never any doubt who was behind the cover-up. In Maddie's case, we just don't know who is behind the slander campaign against the parents. But common sense tells me, if it had been the parents, cops are not stupid, they have instincts, good instincts, and if it had been the parents, they would have been on to them long ago. I believe these are good people who made a tragic mistake, leaving their children alone in the apartment. A mistake they are paying for dearly. We owe it to Maddie to find the truth. Keep up the great work Rob, and don't give up!!

In my opinion, what the McCann's did by leaving 3 year old Madeleine and the two twins alone in the apartment wasn't a mistake.  It was child neglect.    And it if anyone is paying dearly, it would be Madeleine.  I don't know what the McCann's or Murat or a pedaphile or anyone has had to do with Madeleine's disappearance because we the public haven't had the facts presented to us yet.  I couldn't say the McCann's are completely innocent either, because again, facts haven't been presented to the public yet.  The investigation is still ongoing.  I hope Madeleine can be found, but with each passing day, it looks for the worse.  I am not certain about a cover up in this case. Murat would have been an easier target if there was to be a cover up.  Remember the British authorities are in on this also.  If there is a cover up, it would have to include a lot of people in Portugal and Great Britain to do this.  I think the investigation at the start was flawed, by not securing the apartment as a crime scene, doing all the interviews and etc.

sorry Muffy, I agree in part with you. I didn't mean cover-up as in they were covering up the crime, more so covering up their ineptitude I meant. It seemed to me as though when they got tired of all the criticism from the press, they decided the best defense is a good offense and then went after the family. I agree though also, that we really have no idea what the true facts of this case are at all.

[NYC_lover]

Hi all - what are u think about this?

"Parents left behind Maddie each evening on apartment" On the evening of disappearance Kate will look at a time to Maddie and its twin the McCanns went out four evenings on file at the same time to with. Something what the backward Maddie and the other children made an easy prey for possible kidnappers, writes the telegraph. According to important getuige, the waiter from the restaurant, the McCanns and their friends booked each evening at eight o'clock the same table. The restaurant was in the neigbourhood of the apartment where the children slept, but by the trees not well visible. Children frequently only the to same was each evening approximately three hours to for eating, thus waiter Jose Baptista. "also already they will look at each twenty minutes to the children, there was still for a long time in which the children only were." Contradiction According to the waiter the mother of Maddie, Kate McCann is, but will look at a time on the evening of disappearance. Generally the men of the group will only look at, explain Baptista. This in contrast to the tale of the McCanns, which rather had said that the everyone of the group turn still will check or the children in order products.

That waiter Jose Baptista, is this waiter a interesting guy in this case?
Does he has a alibi?
Probably he has following the parents, because he sees they were eating, all the days, the same time in the evening.
He know, they were running and playing tennis, after the disappeared of Madeleine McCann.
And what does he know more? And is there a link to Robert Murat?

[Kat_Gram]

Why is is always sources close to the investigation ? Or statements like that ?
....
I have been lurking and peeking and I appreciate this thread and Rob and Janet and others. We do not know what is fact or fiction. I can't be bothered to go to Court TV or any other sites, too time consuming and I have no clue who the posters are. Rob and Janet and SM members at least have some " street creds " with me. Hugs and kisses to All  xxx 000 xxx   

[sharon]

I heaerd early this morning that there is a 'sketch' of the person that the McCann's think is responsible for Maddy's abduction 

I haven't been able to follow up -- and I haven't seen the sketch.

Anyone else hearing this??

[MuffyBee]

Madeleine McCann: New sketch 'shows her abductor'
'KIDNAPPER' SEEN BY KATE'S PAL
By Rod Chaytor And Stewart Maclean In Praia Da Luz, Portugal Stewart.Maclean@Mirror.Co.Uk 26/10/2007

http://tinyurl.com/239ca5
This is the chilling image released by Kate and Gerry McCann in a desperate effort to trace Madeleine's kidnapper.

The artist's impression is of a man the McCann's friend Jane Tanner insists she saw striding along near their apartment with a child in his arms about 45minutes before Kate discovered Madeleine had vanished.

Ms Tanner did not see the man's face - but the sketch shows him to be slim and of southern European or Mediterranean origin. He has unkempt, jet black hair plastered back across his head and the slight hint of a beard around his chin.

In the picture, drawn by an FBI-trained forensic artist, the child he is carrying is pictured wearing Madeleine's pink pyjamas.
Advertisement
Click here to find out more!

The sketch was released yesterday by the McCanns to coincide with the launch of new appeal for information across Portugal, Spain and North Africa.
(snipped)
---------------------------------
I have posted a link to the sketch for Sharon, because she asked about it.  In my opinion,  a lot of time has passed between the time Madeleine went missing and the sketch being produced and put out for the general public, not to mention it is quite generic in appearance.  JMO

[sharon]

Thanks MuffyBee

At least I wasn't imagining that I heard it.

I realize the article says the picture was just released, but I haven't found where it says WHEN the McCann's and friends gave the info to the sketcher. Recently? Or was this information provided by the McCann's and friends earlier on in the investigation and it is just getting released now?


And this comment in the article just about convinces me that the PLE got their training from the Dirty Aruba Cops      So many different ways and languages to spell
C O R R U P T I O N


Meanwhile, it was yesterday revealed Portuguese police did not record any of their interviews with the McCanns or their friends.

[Rob]

Sharon - here is the Sky News photofit from yesterday. Brits call it a 'photofit' Not sure why.

[Rob]

Rumor on the Mirror Board is the PJ and PLE are back to abduction. And have some type of evidence that is irrefutable.

Not sure what this new evidence is. Could be the shoe print that emerged earlier in the week  - appears to be a size 5-6. Not sure if that is a European sizing. We all know how shoe sizes vary and I don't know if that is a womans or mens size. It sounds too small to be a mens in any event. And could be the reason they think Kate did it.

Could be the DNA from the initial round of searching back in May and those results came back on 6-2-2007 IIRC. I have no idea and no one else does either.

Of course - most on the Mirror Board do not believe it and are pointing to the meeting last week between Gordon Brown and Jose Socrates in Portugal as further evidence of a government conspiracy.

Impossible to know what is really happening in this case. Nothing is confirmed and / or assured.

[Rob]

UK Times Online this morning.

[sharon]

Thanks Rob. And thanks for sharing what you are reading on other boards.

[Rob]

Thanks Rob. And thanks for sharing what you are reading on other boards.

Shar- I have heard some other stuff.

First - this is true - Gerry told Kate not to speak until a microphone was turned off. That was capture by the news organization conducting the interview.

Second - not sure how true this is - Gerry played tennis or had tennis lesson(s) while everyone else was searching for Maddy. Seems to be included in a time-line somewhere. Don't take this as a fact. I just don't know how reliable this is. Seems it happened with in day(s) of the the crime.

Third - this appears to be true - the sketch appears to be from the initial account given by Tanner shortly after the whatever happened. It was only just released - as we all now know. Not sure why it was not released earlier.

Fourth - this appears to be also true - 70% of Spanish / Portuguese viewers who saw the interview believe that McCanns are lying.

 

[Rob]

Also - I wasn't going to post this - but I reconsidered.

Gerry stormed out of an interview after he was asked a question that was specifically asked not to be asked. The question was - 'Did you sedate Madeleine'????

Gerry flipped out. Again, not sure if this encroaches on the investigation and places the McCanns in a position of disclosing evidence and subjects them to arrest.

During the other interview - Gerry was asked the same question again and got quite testy. He did not storm out, but was visibly upset and then denied those claims as - ludicrous or another word describing the same feelings / thoughts.

**These actions by Gerry seems to be accepted as fact. I believe they are true and there seems to be independent witnesses to these events.