Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

Quote from: Tamikosmom on November 13, 2007, 04:03:24 PM
I am curious ... I believe I have asked this question before on this forum but cannot remember a response. What would be your opinion of the McCanns' parenting if you had entrusted your three year old daughter/ granddaughter /niece to the McCanns when they went on this Portuguese vacation and ... it had been your loved one ... not Madeleine ... who had gone missing?

Because of not seeing anything obviously wrong with the McCanns and if I had the money, I would have easily volunteered my children to go to Portugal with the McCanns.

Thank you for your response Louise.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

<snipped>

Because of not seeing anything obviously wrong with the McCanns and if I had the money, I would have easily volunteered my children to go to Portugal with the McCanns.
 

Louise ... my question was:

What would be your opinion of the McCanns' parenting if you had entrusted your three year old daughter/ granddaughter /niece to the McCanns when they went on this Portuguese vacation and ... it had been your loved one ... not Madeleine ... who had gone missing?

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Gerry and Kate McCann do appear to have influential British advocates in high places speaking their behalf.

Janet

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Updated: 15 November 2007
PJ say evidence against McCanns

Recent statements by Piers Merchant, assistant to British MEP Roger Knapman, accusing the Portuguese legal system and the PJ of being “corrupt” has had short shrift from the Portuguese Justice Minister.

Alberto Costa said these were “unworthy statements from the UK Independence Party” that “don’t reflect, at all, the official position of the British authorities”.

Pinto Monteiro and Alípio Ribeiro, respectively the country’s Public Prosecutor and the national Director of the Polícia Judiciária, also strongly criticised Merchant’s statements.

Pinto Monteiro said “any reply to a European Parliament representative must be political and not judicial” and Alípio Ribeiro accused Merchant of “infamous” and “irresponsible” words.

http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/showstory.asp?ID=22714

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Madeleine: Brown Meets Portuguese PM
Updated: 07:03, Friday October 19, 2007

Gordon Brown has been discussing the Madeleine McCann case with his Portuguese counterpart Jose Socrates

Mr Brown, who was in Lisbon for an EU summit, said he wanted to make sure there was "proper co-operation between the British and Portuguese police."

The Prime Minister has had regular briefings on the case since Madeleine's disappearance, and has also discussed the situation with Mr Socrates before.

Mr Brown has also in the past had telephone contact with Madeleine's parents.

But direct contact is believed to have ended when the couple were named as suspects last month.

Madeleine was three when she disappeared from her parents' holiday complex in Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3.

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "We are aware the British Government has maintained an interest in Madeleine's case as a bilateral issue of importance whenever there has been ministerial contact between the two countries.

"Gerry and Kate will naturally be pleased to hear that Mr Brown is seeking such assurances

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1289026,00.html

[Tamikosmom]

McCanns in legal threat
November 15, 2007

A SOLICITOR attempted to launch a private prosecution against the parents of Madeleine McCann today on grounds of alleged child neglect.

Anthony Bennett faxed an application for a court summons of Gerry and Kate McCann to magistrates in the couple’s home county of Leicestershire this morning.

The lawyer, who previously failed in an attempt to bring a private prosecution against entertainer Michael Barrymore over alleged drugs offences on the night of Stuart Lubbock’s death, also sent Loughborough Magistrates’ Court six pages of “evidence” to support the summons.

Mr Bennett, 60, a father of two, said his move was sparked by a “lack of action” by the Leicestershire authorities, and comments made by the McCanns’ spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, that their actions while on holiday were typical of many British families.

The former UK Independence Party prospective parliamentary candidate from Harlow, in Essex, said: “I think the case is very simple. By the McCanns’ own admission they have left their own children unattended for a significant period of time.

“What troubles me is that there has been no prosecution by the relevant authorities, namely Leicestershire Police and Leicestershire social services."

“I was also prompted by the comments of Clarence Mitchell, who said on television that the McCanns’ actions were no different to what many British parents do.”

Mr Bennett, a self-employed rights adviser who is also qualified as a social worker, added: “I think this matter should be put before the court. Do we want a society in which it is acceptable to leave children alone?"

“If the application concentrates people’s minds on whether it should ever be acceptable to leave children on their own then I will have achieved what I set out to achieve.”

He said he hoped the prosecution would be taken on by Leicestershire County Council or Leicestershire Police.

He said: “I would be delighted if they took over this prosecution, but I just feel that, given the publicity surrounding this case, someone should stand up for neglected children.”

Mr Bennett alleges that the couple, from Rothley in Leicestershire, were guilty of neglecting Madeleine and their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, under Section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933.

<snipped>

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article468622.ece

[Anna]

A voice of reason at least in a sea of insanity???

And if the McCanns are guilty of child neglect, so are all their friends who participated in the nightly drinking and dining while leaving small children unattended.

This is think is a huge motive for concealing any accident or accidents that may have happened with these unattended small children and not just a cover up for their friends the McCanns.

JMO

.

[NYC_lover]

McCanns' Friend Breaks Her Silence
Updated:15:10, Friday November 16, 2007

Madeleine McCann's parents hope a documentary featuring a friend who was in Portugal the night the toddler disappeared will convince the public their daughter was abducted.
 
Still Missing: Madeleine McCannJane Tanner was among a group of friends - labelled the Tapas Nine - who dined with the McCanns in Portugal on May 3, while their children slept nearby.

She claims she saw a mystery man walking away from the complex carrying a sleeping child about 9.15pm, whom she now believes was Madeleine.

Ms Tanner spoke out in a Panorama programme after being labelled a liar in some elements of the media.

She said: "I know what I saw and I think it is important that people know what I saw, because I believe Madeleine was abducted."

In the programme Ms Tanner describes how a friend came to her holiday apartment to tell her Madeleine had gone at about 10pm.

She said: "I saw Kate and Fiona running around shouting 'Madeleine', and Kate said to me, 'Jane, Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone'."

 
The photofit released by familyMcCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell told Sky News the couple hoped the programme would be a fair, open-minded establishment of the facts.

He said: "They hope it will point people towards the fact that she was abducted and help to focus people's minds on the search."

Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, vanished from the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz just days before her fourth birthday.

Last month the McCanns, both 39, released an artist's impression of the possible abductor, using details provided by Ms Tanner.

New video footage of the couple, shot by a family friend during their search for their daughter, is also to be aired in the documentary and on American TV network CBS.

In the CBS footage, Gerry McCann says: "We will always live with the fact that Kate and I were not in the apartment when it happened and we have to face up to that."

The couple were named arguidos, or formal suspects in their daughter's disappearance in September.

[NYC_lover]

Murat in picture in Maddie-case
AMSTERDAM - friends of the McCanns have identified in Portugal, living Briton Robert Murat as the one which they have the apartment of the McCanns see leaving with a child in its poor. Robert Murat come on screen again in Maddie-case. The Portuguese newspaper 24 horas say that Russel O'Brien and Jane Tanner the person whose birthday 33, it is have designated Murat, as a man who carried away ' a child '. Murat, which were already rather designated once, deny each involvement. The McCanns to find the news of the Portuguese newspaper also nonsense. The British doctor couple has not said ever remind itself Murat to have met.

[Tamikosmom]

According to the family's spokesperson ... Jane Tanner never identified Robert Murat as the person she observed holding a child near the McCann's resort apartment the night that Madeleine went missing.

Janet

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McCann friends 'pointed Murat out to police'
By Fiona Govan in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 2:37am GMT 16/11/2007

The tabloid alleged that the friends "clearly stated, during the face-to-face meeting, they thought it was him who was carrying a child in his arms".

Early in the investigation, it emerged that Jane Tanner, 37, from Exeter, saw a man carrying a child outside the McCanns' holiday apartment at about 9.15pm on May 3.

Yesterday, a friend of the McCanns said Miss Tanner had never pointed the finger at Mr Murat. "Of course she has been asked many times whether the man she saw [carrying a child] was Murat, but she has never said that she believes it was."

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' official spokesman, dismissed the claims as "absolute rubbish".

"We are not going to comment on yet more speculation in the Portuguese press but there seems to be little truth in this report," he said

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/16/wmaddy116.xml



The Press Association
Published Date: 16 November 2007
 
One of the Madeleine McCann family's closest friends has broken her silence to insist she saw the girl, from Rothley, Leicestershire, being carried away by her abductor.

Jane Tanner spoke in public for the first time about what she believes is the last definite sighting of the missing girl.

Her evidence is one of the few clues Portuguese detectives have as to what happened to Madeleine at the Algarve holiday complex on May 3.

Ms Tanner said she saw a man carrying a sleeping child away from the Praia da Luz apartments just 45 minutes before Kate McCann discovered her daughter was missing.

In an interview with the BBC she said: "I know what I saw and I think it is important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted."

Describing the night of the abduction, she said another friend came to her apartment at about 10pm and said the child was gone.

She said: "That was the first I heard about it. Then I saw Kate and Fiona running around shouting 'Madeleine'. Kate said to me: 'Jane, Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone'."

Asked why she has not spoken out before, she said: "I have not spoken because the Portuguese police told us not to talk about these things at all.

"From day one we have done everything we could to help them with the investigation. Maybe I am talking now because I have been called a liar and a fantasist."

The Jane Tanner interview will be broadcast during Panorama: The Mystery Of Madeleine McCann on BBC One on Monday, November 19, at 9pm.

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/latest-east-midlands-news/McCanns-friend-claims-she-saw.3496413.jp

[Anna]

However, TV Producer by the name of Jeremy Wilkins I believe , was on the path where Tanner claims to have seen this person that she is only now calling Murat, at the time she claims to have seen him and he did not see any man carrying a child away. 

Has anyone else come forward to say they, too, saw this man carrying a child away?  I wonder if Tanner also had children who were left unattended routinely during this vacation.

.

[Tamikosmom]

However, TV Producer by the name of Jeremy Wilkins I believe , was on the path where Tanner claims to have seen this person that she is only now calling Murat, at the time she claims to have seen him and he did not see any man carrying a child away. 

Has anyone else come forward to say they, too, saw this man carrying a child away?  I wonder if Tanner also had children who were left unattended routinely during this vacation.

Hi Anna

It is my understanding ... Jane Tanner is the mother of the sick child and ... Dr. Russell O'Brien is Jane Tanner's partner and the father of the sick children.  O'Brien claimed to have changed the sheets of his sick child during one of his absences and ... then returned to the Tapa Bar.   

Janet

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OFFICIAL SOURCE

From The Sunday Times
November 11, 2007

Madeleine McCann friends face questioning as official suspects

Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the Policia Judiciaria, said last month that formal letters requesting interviews with the friends of the McCanns had been drawn up.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2848076.ece


UNIDENTIFIED SOURCES

McCann Friends 'want to give new statements'
November 9, 2007

But sources within the Policia Judiciaria have said several of the statements are riddled with inconsistencies. Attention has been focused on Ms Tanner’s claims that she saw a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket near the McCanns’ apartment around 9.15 pm. Other independent witnesses in that area at the same time said they saw no one matching that description however.

<snipped>

Dr O’Brien’s statement was also said to be of interest because he had been away from the restaurant for around 45 minutes in order to look after his own child who was unwell.

He told police he had changed the child’s bed linen after she was sick, but staff at the Ocean Club were said to have denied any change of sheets was requested.

[Tamikosmom]

LINK TO ABOVE QUOTE.

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http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/24504/McCann-friends-want-to-give-new-statements-

MCCANN FRIENDS 'WANT TO GIVE NEW STATEMENTS'
November 9, 2007

[Kat_Gram]

Leaving their children in a room like the Mccann's did it not right, most of the people who were with them did the same thing, and they are all intelligent people. They must have had a false sense of security about doing that. That is the worst thing that I can say about them is that they lacked judgement in this one episode
of their lives. And I don't intend to beat them up over it. I don't think that they were responsible for any harm that might have come to their much loved child.
From what I remember offhand, the Portugese Police were slow to act in securing the borders or conducting a professionl search or investigation.
We can sit here and discuss what we would have done, but we were not the parents and we were not there. The McCann have enough to deal with without all of these slurs to their character. 

[Tamikosmom]

Kat

I do not know what happened to Madeleine McCann and ... neither does anybody else.  However ... two theories abound and ... both of those theories have to be expored ... the McCanns can not be given a free pass on either one ... the McCanns cannot be considered above accountability ... above suspicion.

Theories 

1.  Madeleine McCann was kidnapped when she was left alone by her parents ... her caregivers ... the entrusters of her well-being ... while they dined at a Tapa Bar 100 yards away or ...

2.  An unfortunate incident occured ... an unfortunate incident known to her parents ... an incident that took Madeleine's life and ... an incident that was covered up.

Kat ... it is important to remain focused ... Madeleine is the victim here ... not Kate and Gerry McCann.  Madeleine was deprived of her God-given right to life and ... no matter which theory you adhere ... to some degree her parents had the ability to make common sense choices on her behalf ... on behalf of her well being and ... this precious child would still be a member of the McCann family.

Kat ... the choice to leave their children alone and defenceless was not just a momentary lapse of judgement of the McCanns ... the choice was premeditated and ... it happened night after night.

However ... if there was an unfortunate incident ... it could very well have been a momentary lapse of judgement but ... why the cover?

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

The justice system in Canada considers leaving children alone without adult supervision for twenty minutes is considered a felony ... child endangerment and ... I agree.  If were not for good Samaritans ... these would have burned to death.

However ... Madeleine was allegedly kidnapped while being left alone and ... British authorities have yet to take any action against the McCanns.

Does class distinction play a role?  What other difference is there between the two incidences?  Should this Canadian mother have been charged?

I am confused because there seems to be a double standard.

Janet

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http://video.nbc5.com/player/?id=166193

Mother Charged After Fire Breaks Out When Kids Left Alone
Oct. 11, 2007

A Joliet woman faces a child endangerment charge after her daughter and another boy are injured in a fire.

[2NJSons_Mom]

CBS, 48 Hours is about 'What happened to Maddie?' tonight at 10pm ET. 

[LouiseVargas]

In life, sometimes one makes a choice that turns out to be a life altering moment.

[pdh3]

The problem I have with pointing a finger at the McCann's is that we have no proof that anything we've heard about their "suspicious activities" is anything but rumor. We have no real facts to go on, or any reliable physical evidence. I do not believe the Portugues police force is competent or even unbiased about the effect this may have on tourism.

All we know is that they should not have left their small children alone. I do think all of that group had a false sense of security about the resort, and made their decision to leave the kids based on that.

As far as Jane Tanner....she may be more observant than the other guy. He may have been paying attention to something else, and not seen the guy go by with the child. I'm sure, if the man was taking Maddie, that he was trying to be as unobtrusive as possible. Just because he didn't see the man doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen the way Ms. Tanner said it did. We have no proof she's a liar.

[SteveDinMD]

The justice system in Canada considers leaving children alone without adult supervision for twenty minutes is considered a felony ... child endangerment and ... I agree.  If were not for good Samaritans ... these would have burned to death.

However ... Madeleine was allegedly kidnapped while being left alone and ... British authorities have yet to take any action against the McCanns.

Does class distinction play a role?  What other difference is there between the two incidences?  Should this Canadian mother have been charged?

I am confused because there seems to be a double standard.

Janet

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http://video.nbc5.com/player/?id=166193

Mother Charged After Fire Breaks Out When Kids Left Alone
Oct. 11, 2007

A Joliet woman faces a child endangerment charge after her daughter and another boy are injured in a fire.

Perhaps the British authorities haven't taken any action because it would be a complete waste of time for them to have done so.  What could possibly be gained from it?  Are we to believe that the British are so lacking in crimes to prosecute that they need to invent some in order to combat boredom?  Are the McCanns' other children likely to benefit from being ripped from a loving, stable home in favor of foster care?  I don't think so.  Here in the U.S. we have countless children left in the care of parents addicted to crack or who are in the grip of various sociopathic tendencies.  The situation, I'm sure, can't be so different in the U.K..  If the McCanns are legitimate targets for Child Protective Services intervention, then there are MILLIONS of other parents whose cases should take precedence over theirs. 

[Tamikosmom]

The justice system in Canada considers leaving children alone without adult supervision for twenty minutes is considered a felony ... child endangerment and ... I agree.  If were not for good Samaritans ... these would have burned to death.

However ... Madeleine was allegedly kidnapped while being left alone and ... British authorities have yet to take any action against the McCanns.

Does class distinction play a role?  What other difference is there between the two incidences?  Should this Canadian mother have been charged?

I am confused because there seems to be a double standard.

Janet

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http://video.nbc5.com/player/?id=166193

Mother Charged After Fire Breaks Out When Kids Left Alone
Oct. 11, 2007

A Joliet woman faces a child endangerment charge after her daughter and another boy are injured in a fire.

Perhaps the British authorities haven't taken any action because it would be a complete waste of time for them to have done so.  What could possibly be gained from it?  Are we to believe that the British are so lacking in crimes to prosecute that they need to invent some in order to combat boredom?  Are the McCanns' other children likely to benefit from being ripped from a loving, stable home in favor of foster care?  I don't think so.  Here in the U.S. we have countless children left in the care of parents addicted to crack or who are in the grip of various sociopathic tendencies.  The situation, I'm sure, can't be so different in the U.K..  If the McCanns are legitimate targets for Child Protective Services intervention, then there are MILLIONS of other parents whose cases should take precedence over theirs.
 

Steve ... you evaded answering even one of my questions.

Janet

 

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>


All we know is that they should not have left their small children alone. I do think all of that group had a false sense of security about the resort, and made their decision to leave the kids based on that.

<snipped>

I am positive that the Canadian mother who left her two children  alone did so with false sense of security.  The children were in their own apartment ... caring neighbours in the adjoining suites.  Maybe this mother ... something akin to the McCanns ... had left her children alone for twenty minutes on other occassions and nothing had even happened.

If the McCanns actions can be justified despite that fact that the result of their premeditated action was that their daughter was  kidnapped and never seen again ... I can only assume that the Canadian mother's action can be justified despite the fact that result of her premediated action was that two children almost burned to death.

In my opinion ... the definition of "child endangerment" is non existent is the above two situations do not apply.

Janet