Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Rob]

I personally believe at this time the McCanns are being framed. There are other children missing in Algarve and the police don't seem to concerned that there could be a serial pedophile on then loose for the last 5+ years.

So far the 'evidence' that I know of does not appear to convict anyone, let alone one or both of the McCanns.

I would like to know more about this 'phantom' syringe the police claim to have found in the apartment.

I would also like to know where the theory of the McCanns drugging their children originated.

For a police force that supposedly 'compiles' with the Portuguese secrecy law they sure seem to get their side of the events out there. And their accomplices in the Portuguese media just gravel at the feet of the PLE like a dog looking at the butchers window, waiting to spread their next unfounded rumor against the McCanns.

[Sleeks]

CNN is also reporting that Portugese Police are trying to get her (Kate) to confess.  My question is if Maddy is no longer with us, where is the body???  I thought they searched so thoroughly.

Spin the bottle blame.

[robots]

im sticking with the parents.......are involved in this DEEP

too suspicious that
they went to dinner and she disappeared


just my opinion, im not ready to hang anyone

YET

[Tamikosmom]

I personally believe at this time the McCanns are being framed. There are other children missing in Algarve and the police don't seem to concerned that there could be a serial pedophile on then loose for the last 5+ years.

So far the 'evidence' that I know of does not appear to convict anyone, let alone one or both of the McCanns.

I would like to know more about this 'phantom' syringe the police claim to have found in the apartment.

I would also like to know where the theory of the McCanns drugging their children originated.

For a police force that supposedly 'compiles' with the Portuguese secrecy law they sure seem to get their side of the events out there. And their accomplices in the Portuguese media just gravel at the feet of the PLE like a dog looking at the butchers window, waiting to spread their next unfounded rumor against the McCanns.

Rob ... I have my feet firmly planted on both sides of the fence in regards to my speculations on this topic.

On one hand I ask the question:

If the McCann's played a role in the disappearance of their daughter ... why did they not return home to Britain in the past four months?  They had the opportunity to avoid questioning ... arrest ... prosecution.


On the other hand I ask the question:

Where would the "powers that be" in Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's DNA to plant in the apartment for the British forensic team to discover and ... where would the "powers that be" in the Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's "dried" DNA to plant in the vehicle rented by her parents for the British forensic team to discover??

This wannabe detective reserves judgement on this one.

Janet

[Rob]

CNN is also reporting that Portugese Police are trying to get her (Kate) to confess.  My question is if Maddy is no longer with us, where is the body???  I thought they searched so thoroughly.

Spin the bottle blame.

Sleeks, for a moment if you will, only a local could hide a body so well that no one can find it. Tourists do not know where to dispose of a body so well that it will not be found. The PLE seem to believe Maddy is in fact dead. I do not know how they have arrived at that conclusion.

No body no crime?????  ??????   ?????      ?????? This is one case where a lacking body represents that Maddy may in fact be alive.

If you can, go back to the nite in question. On that nite the McCanns are dining with friends and they are not seen to be in a position to have removed Madeleine and secured her permanent disposal. The police were at the flat by 10pm, after a delay they (the police) created themselves and arrived at their leisure. They did not rope off the scene. Robert Murat and others were allowed access to the flat. For whatever reason this was NOT considered a crime scene from the very earliest moments. More bungling -

Richard Edward article of 6.1.2007
15 KEY BLUNDERS

1 Police were at the scene quickly but officers played down suggestions that Madeleine had been abducted and believed she had just wandered off. The crime scene in and around the hotel was not taped off, ruining prospects of obtaining vital forensic evidence.

2 There was a lack of specialist fingertip searching in streets around the hotel meaning more opportunities to find forensic evidence were lost. A former senior British detective working for the media called the scene "the worst preserved" he had witnessed in his career.

3 Officers failed to make early house-to-house inquiries when potential witnesses were still likely to be in the resort. Only on the Saturday, more than 48 hours later, did they start searching some local apartments and a full list of guests was obtained on Sunday. Staff at Mark Warner's complex were only questioned 60 hours after Madeleine disappeared.

4 There are still people in the same apartment block as Mr and Mrs McCann who have never been questioned. Empty properties yards from where the child was taken have never been searched.

5 Police failed to inform Spanish border authorities of Madeleine's disappearance until the morning after she was taken - giving the abductor the chance to flee the country.

6 CCTV on the main road out of Praia da Luz, going towards Spain, was not checked by police.

7 Early witness descriptions created confusion. At one stage there were six different E-fit images being shown to local people.

8 On the morning of May 7, Gerry and Kate McCann issued a televised appeal direct to the abductor. Six hours later, a police chief said at a press conference: "We are not 100 per cent certain she was abducted."

9 Detectives could not issue information on the investigation due to strict Portuguese laws on "judicial secrecy". However the law includes two exceptions, both of which apply in the case of Madeleine.

10 It meant no direct appeal for help was made and police failed to give a clear description of Madeleine. There were no posters put up in the early days. It was left to Madeleine's parents to describe what she as wearing on the night she disappeared.

11 An appeal for a suspect was finally issued 22 days after Madeleine went missing, together with a description. However police made another blunder by issuing two different height descriptions - the result of a mistranslation.

12 On May 9 the search was scaled down \u2026 searches were not very visible, helicopter not used much.

13 There was a delay in calling in specialists. Two British child abduction experts were flown in a week later, mobile phone tracker technicians who helped in the Soham investigation came in last week.

14 Leaks have hampered the inquiry. On May 16, Portuguese newspapers reported that police were "on the trail" of a Russian friend of Robert Murat, the formal suspect in the case. He was only detained for questioning after he had been traced by journalists.

15 Madeleine's favourite toy could have been a crucial key in tracking her down. She took it to bed with her every night including the night she was taken. The abductor could have left some trace of DNA evidence on it, but police did not check and Mrs McCann has had the pink soft toy with her ever since. One specialist said scientists would have needed to examine it for at least several days. He said: "Now it's probably too late. It's an absolute glaring error."

>>me speaking-
after looking at this case over the last 4 months on a daily basis, I believe that an abductor is involved. An unknown to date abductor.

A seasoned pedophile will strike when the opportunity is presented, and after watching the McCanns for several days he / she decided that the time was right and absconded with Madeleine.

The apartment directly over the McCanns was also burglarized. Who did that and where are the police on that one?

If Kate or Gerry did this, I would be totally shocked. Too much points in other directions. And if they are charged and tried, any competent attorney will instantly call in to question the poor investigation techniques preformed by the PLE.

This is a circumstantial case and rises to a level beyond reasonable doubt....imo...

[Rob]

I personally believe at this time the McCanns are being framed. There are other children missing in Algarve and the police don't seem to concerned that there could be a serial pedophile on then loose for the last 5+ years.

So far the 'evidence' that I know of does not appear to convict anyone, let alone one or both of the McCanns.

I would like to know more about this 'phantom' syringe the police claim to have found in the apartment.

I would also like to know where the theory of the McCanns drugging their children originated.

For a police force that supposedly 'compiles' with the Portuguese secrecy law they sure seem to get their side of the events out there. And their accomplices in the Portuguese media just gravel at the feet of the PLE like a dog looking at the butchers window, waiting to spread their next unfounded rumor against the McCanns.

Rob ... I have my feet firmly planted on both sides of the fence in regards to my speculations on this topic.

On one hand I ask the question:

If the McCann's played a role in the disappearance of their daughter ... why did they not return home to Britain in the past four months?  They had the opportunity to avoid questioning ... arrest ... prosecution.


On the other hand I ask the question:

Where would the "powers that be" in Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's DNA to plant in the apartment for the British forensic team to discover and ... where would the "powers that be" in the Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's "dried" DNA to plant in the vehicle rented by her parents for the British forensic team to discover??

This wannabe detective reserves judgement on this one.

Janet

Hi Janet, Always so nice to see you!!!

I am not sure how the PLE has accomplished anything to date. They seem to trip over their own feet. If in fact this is truly Maddy's DNA.. several things could have occurred.

Body was recovered a long time ago and the PLE is unsure who did what and decided to see who implicate them self.

There is no DNA and the PLE is playing one of the patented games and shaking the tree again.

The fact that the British have been involved in the DNA examination allows me to conclude that this is most likely Maddy's DNA.

The remaining fact is - how did DNA from a missing person end up in a rented car 25 days after Maddy went missing and the chance that the McCanns would rent that particular car is now in question. Follow me???

This would be a kin to me buy a used car with the DNA of my future wife in the drivers seat who I have not yet met.

[klaasend]

Well now the BIG news is that Gerry is admitting that Kate may have given Madeleine Calpol.  Isn't Calpol nothing more than a cold medicine?  Sure, it could make Madeleine sleepy but I really don't see anything sinister in giving her Calpol.

[bleachedblack]

I personally believe at this time the McCanns are being framed. There are other children missing in Algarve and the police don't seem to concerned that there could be a serial pedophile on then loose for the last 5+ years.

So far the 'evidence' that I know of does not appear to convict anyone, let alone one or both of the McCanns.

I would like to know more about this 'phantom' syringe the police claim to have found in the apartment.

I would also like to know where the theory of the McCanns drugging their children originated.

For a police force that supposedly 'compiles' with the Portuguese secrecy law they sure seem to get their side of the events out there. And their accomplices in the Portuguese media just gravel at the feet of the PLE like a dog looking at the butchers window, waiting to spread their next unfounded rumor against the McCanns.

Rob ... I have my feet firmly planted on both sides of the fence in regards to my speculations on this topic.

On one hand I ask the question:

If the McCann's played a role in the disappearance of their daughter ... why did they not return home to Britain in the past four months?  They had the opportunity to avoid questioning ... arrest ... prosecution.


On the other hand I ask the question:

Where would the "powers that be" in Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's DNA to plant in the apartment for the British forensic team to discover and ... where would the "powers that be" in the Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's "dried" DNA to plant in the vehicle rented by her parents for the British forensic team to discover??

This wannabe detective reserves judgement on this one.

Janet

Janet, the first part of your post I agree with. There is no logical reason for them to have remained in Portugal if either parent had anything to do with the childs death.

The rental car that showed a trace of blood/DNA should mean nothing. If there was a large amount of blood , then maybe I would be suspicious. But I can think of times on vacation when our family has rented car in which one of my kids had thrown up. Another time my daughter cut her foot on a shell on the beach and there was blood in the car, oh yea and then there was the 3 inch splinter from the board walk....a little blood. I guess you all get the point.

[Rob]

Klaas and Janet -  I'll spell it out. The PLE believes that Maddy was accidentally killed, her body hidden and the McCanns then at a later date retrieved the body in that exact car. Her body was either hidden by Gerry, Kate or their Doctor friend that returned to Britian. He told them where to retrieve the body and then they permanently disposed of Maddy.

How this was all accomplished while they were under intense media and police scrutiny is beyond me at this time.

I have no idea at this time how this puzzle is being fitted by the PLE.

[MuffyBee]

Sympathy and suspicion — the case so far

snipped
"Madeleine was reported to have been hugging her Cuddle Cat soft toy when she went to sleep, but it was found on a ledge beyond her reach after she vanished. This was taken to suggest she was abducted alive by an adult.
and:
What has prompted the latest questionings?

At first, it was assumed that results of tests taken on traces of blood, hair and fibres found in the apartment prompted the Portuguese police to reinterview the couple. Experts at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham have spent a month analysing samples found by British sniffer dogs in Madeleine's bedroom. Some reports now suggest that forensic tests on a car hired by the McCanns 25 days after Madeleine disappeared raise new questions. There are unconfirmed claims that blood stains, possibly linked to Madeleine, were found in the boot and on the key fob. There have been suggestions that a syringe was found in the flat, leading to rumours that the child might have been sedated"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2410363.ece

[MuffyBee]

The above post could be all rumors.  I just don't know.  It's very sad no matter what.

[Dayhiker]

Kimberley Guillfoyle just on John Gibson's show on FOX. She described the Portugese investigation as "Natalee Holloway Part 2."

[MuffyBee]

Well now the BIG news is that Gerry is admitting that Kate may have given Madeleine Calpol.  Isn't Calpol nothing more than a cold medicine?  Sure, it could make Madeleine sleepy but I really don't see anything sinister in giving her Calpol.

Here is an article I found when searching, using "Calpol overdose":

   

Are we using too much Calpol?
snipped
"I've never seen an overdose of Calpol," says Dr Wayne Lenney, a consultant paediatrician. "The only liquid overdoses in children occur when teenagers drink too much alcohol."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2005/02/16/hcal16.xml

[Elaine]

Kimberley Guillfoyle just on John Gibson's show on FOX. She described the Portugese investigation as "Natalee Holloway Part 2."

I take that to mean that she feels that the investigators are crooked.

I was floored today when I heard the turn of events. As some have previously stated, I also am straddling the fence on this one for now.

I know that some are wondering how blood could be found, if indeed this was an "overdose" of a sedative. I may be able to shed a little light on how it could happen. Just a theory. When Anna Nicole Smith's son Daniel died, some say he vomited blood right before he passed away. His death was from an overdose. I have heard that this can happen. I am not saying that is what happened. Just trying to make sense of it all.

[Tamikosmom]

I personally believe at this time the McCanns are being framed. There are other children missing in Algarve and the police don't seem to concerned that there could be a serial pedophile on then loose for the last 5+ years.

So far the 'evidence' that I know of does not appear to convict anyone, let alone one or both of the McCanns.

I would like to know more about this 'phantom' syringe the police claim to have found in the apartment.

I would also like to know where the theory of the McCanns drugging their children originated.

For a police force that supposedly 'compiles' with the Portuguese secrecy law they sure seem to get their side of the events out there. And their accomplices in the Portuguese media just gravel at the feet of the PLE like a dog looking at the butchers window, waiting to spread their next unfounded rumor against the McCanns.

Rob ... I have my feet firmly planted on both sides of the fence in regards to my speculations on this topic.

On one hand I ask the question:

If the McCann's played a role in the disappearance of their daughter ... why did they not return home to Britain in the past four months?  They had the opportunity to avoid questioning ... arrest ... prosecution.


On the other hand I ask the question:

Where would the "powers that be" in Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's DNA to plant in the apartment for the British forensic team to discover and ... where would the "powers that be" in the Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's "dried" DNA to plant in the vehicle rented by her parents for the British forensic team to discover??

This wannabe detective reserves judgement on this one.

Janet

Janet, the first part of your post I agree with. There is no logical reason for them to have remained in Portugal if either parent had anything to do with the childs death.

The rental car that showed a trace of blood/DNA should mean nothing. If there was a large amount of blood , then maybe I would be suspicious. But I can think of times on vacation when our family has rented car in which one of my kids had thrown up. Another time my daughter cut her foot on a shell on the beach and there was blood in the car, oh yea and then there was the 3 inch splinter from the board walk....a little blood. I guess you all get the point.

beachedblack ... the vehicle was rented by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie disappeared.

My original questions stand:

Where would the "powers that be" in Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's DNA to plant in the apartment letted by the McCanns for the British forensic team to discover and ... where would the "powers that be" in the Portugese investigation obtain Madeleine's "dried" DNA to plant in the vehicle rented by her parents for the British forensic team to discover??

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas and Janet -  I'll spell it out. The PLE believes that Maddy was accidentally killed, her body hidden and the McCanns then at a later date retrieved the body in that exact car. Her body was either hidden by Gerry, Kate or their Doctor friend that returned to Britian. He told them where to retrieve the body and then they permanently disposed of Maddy.

How this was all accomplished while they were under intense media and police scrutiny is beyond me at this time.

I have no idea at this time how this puzzle is being fitted by the PLE.

Rob ... maybe after over three weeks the scrutiny was not that intense ... maybe an opportunity presented itself.  Hey ... the "dried" blood in the rented vehicle came from somewhere.

Nevertheless .. the following excerpt from an article in a British publication implies that Dr Russell O’Brien ... the McCann's friend ... had the opportunity to be a participant to some capacity in the events encompassing the disappearance of Maddie.

Janet


Madeleine McCann's parents told not to leave
By Richard Edwards in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 3:10am BST 24/08/2007

<snipped>

Mr Sousa also played down reports that a new suspect was about to be arrested in Britain, dismissing them as old speculation.

It referred to Dr Russell O’Brien, a friend of the McCanns, who has become the latest victim of a smear campaign in a Portuguese newspaper, which claimed he would be arrested yesterday in connection to the disappearance.

He hit back and told friends: “I will robustly defend my reputation. I have not been contacted by the Portuguese police and there has been no mention of any impending arrest or need to return to Portugal. The allegations made in Portuguese press are completely without foundation.

”Dr O’Brien was dining with the McCanns on the night Madeleine disappeared and spent part of the evening away from the table looking after his own daughter, who was sick ….. "

<snipped>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/21/nmaddy221.xml
 

[MuffyBee]

 Experts Stymied by Latest McCann Twist

By JOCELYN NOVECK – 1 hour ago

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hMsiOja-9taj6aZI7sfCqVQHf8iw

[Rob]

Yes Janet -  that is the connection and theory.

I'm unable to believe at this time that these three have committed what the police have alleged based on their (PLE) rumors alone. I need hard evidence that this is the correct hypothesis. I realize that the Doctor was interviewed and he and his wife have both proclaimed their innocence.

Janet- the PLE has been back and forth between the McCanns, an unknown abductor, the McCanns friends and Robert Murat and his associates over the last few months. It is all so cyclical. Next week they may be back to Mr. Murat.

Until I see what they have, I am still supporting Kate and Gerry. And even then I may support them as I do not trust the PLE one bit. They have had everyone running in circles for over 4 months... that's no way to run an investigation.

The PLE blew this from day one and are trying to back track their own mistakes at the expense of a grieving family.

This was truly a mickey mouse investigation... why does anyone think it changed all of a sudden? As the British said last night in regards to the DNA - where the PLE goes with it will be up to them.

[Tamikosmom]

Well now the BIG news is that Gerry is admitting that Kate may have given Madeleine Calpol.  Isn't Calpol nothing more than a cold medicine?  Sure, it could make Madeleine sleepy but I really don't see anything sinister in giving her Calpol.

Klaas ... if Madeleine was administered Calpol ... the McCanns are both physicians ... they should have known better.

Janet

++++++++++++++


NANCY GRACE
August 23, 2005

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/23/ng.01.html

GRACE: The he she is referring to is a 1-year-old baby boy, Dane Heggem.  Now, I know millions of you watching tonight take your kids to daycare.  This little baby boy was taken to Tiny Tots Day Care in Montana. One day, he did not come back alive. Prosecutors now allege the owner of the day care force-fed the children, in day care, cold medicine, for no other reason than to make these infants, these children, shut up and take naps.

<snipped>

GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. What is Diphedryl? What is the main ingredient? Is it like Benadryl?

KOBILINSKY: The chemical is called diphenhydramine. And there are a number of companies that manufacture it. And usually, it`s in combination with some other things that relieve symptoms of colds.

It`s obviously used to block the symptoms of allergies. But it`s also used to promote sleeping.

What`s critical here is that there`s really no safe dosage for children under the age of 6. In fact, the poison control centers have done a study that showed that 27 children a year die from overdoses of this medication.  It`s a central nervous system depressant, and it blocks -- it slows down respiration. And in an overdose, it can stop it altogether and result in a cardiac stop -- you can stop the heart from beating, as well.

[Kiwi]

Rob I would tend to agree with you. It does appear that the police are trying to make something happen like a bluff. Side so there doctor friend also left a child back in another room? Pretty disturbing.