Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Anna]

And many, many parents have lost custody of their children for far, far less.  Varies from location to location in this country.  The topic is not foster care, however, but what happened to Madeleine McCann.

Most of the questions I have concerning the parents' behavior stems from statements they themselves have made and not from any rumors.  It's their own behavior and that of their dinner companions that calls their actions into question.

If Portugal is such a hotbed of pedophile activity, what an odd destination for educated people to chose in the first place.  There seems to be a series of lapses in judgment.  And as I said, no one would have to tell me those stairs are not safe for unattended toddlers.  The last known with any missing person should always be investigated.  Madeleine deserves that even if Kate does think she is too pretty to be considered maternal.

[pdh3]

Janet - I don't think anyone really is trying to justify leaving small children and toddlers alone. We all think it's a bad idea. But....why take the kids away from home? Can't another solution be found? IMHO....it endangers children almost as much to remove them from the home if that's the worst thing a parent has ever done. There may be an opportunity to educate tha parent, and save the children from trauma.
And I'm not saying the kids should remain with the Mom if she leaves them for hours, neglects them, or otherwise abuses them. I'm saying, if she occasionally left them for a few minutes, thinking it was a harmless thing to do. Sometimes, very young parents are not as diligent, or very laid back parents don't take things seriously.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - I don't think anyone really is trying to justify leaving small children and toddlers alone. We all think it's a bad idea. But....why take the kids away from home? Can't another solution be found? IMHO....it endangers children almost as much to remove them from the home if that's the worst thing a parent has ever done. There may be an opportunity to educate tha parent, and save the children from trauma.
And I'm not saying the kids should remain with the Mom if she leaves them for hours, neglects them, or otherwise abuses them. I'm saying, if she occasionally left them for a few minutes, thinking it was a harmless thing to do. Sometimes, very young parents are not as diligent, or very laid back parents don't take things seriously.

I have never implied that the McCann twins be taken away from their parents.

I do not comprehend the double standard that exists between the McCanns and the Canadian mother when it comes to legal accountability.  The perception is entirely different and ... the only difference that I can determine is class distinction and ... connections.

Janet

McCanns in legal threat
November 15, 2007

A SOLICITOR attempted to launch a private prosecution against the parents of Madeleine McCann today on grounds of alleged child neglect.

Anthony Bennett faxed an application for a court summons of Gerry and Kate McCann to magistrates in the couple’s home county of Leicestershire this morning.

<snipped>

“What troubles me is that there has been no prosecution by the relevant authorities, namely Leicestershire Police and Leicestershire social services."

“I was also prompted by the comments of Clarence Mitchell, who said on television that the McCanns’ actions were no different to what many British parents do.”


The Prime Minister has had regular briefings on the case since Madeleine's disappearance, and has also discussed the situation with Mr Socrates before.

Mr Brown has also in the past had telephone contact with Madeleine's parents.

[Tamikosmom]

McCanns in legal threat
November 15, 2007

A SOLICITOR attempted to launch a private prosecution against the parents of Madeleine McCann today on grounds of alleged child neglect.

Anthony Bennett faxed an application for a court summons of Gerry and Kate McCann to magistrates in the couple’s home county of Leicestershire this morning.

<snipped>

“What troubles me is that there has been no prosecution by the relevant authorities, namely Leicestershire Police and Leicestershire social services."

“I was also prompted by the comments of Clarence Mitchell, who said on television that the McCanns’ actions were no different to what many British parents do.”

Mr Bennett alleges that the couple, from Rothley in Leicestershire, were guilty of neglecting Madeleine and their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, under Section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article468622.ece

++++++++++++++++


Madeleine: Brown Meets Portuguese PM
Updated: 07:03, Friday October 19, 2007

The Prime Minister has had regular briefings on the case since Madeleine's disappearance, and has also discussed the situation with Mr Socrates before.

Mr Brown has also in the past had telephone contact with Madeleine's parents.

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "We are aware the British Government has maintained an interest in Madeleine's case as a bilateral issue of importance whenever there has been ministerial contact between the two countries.

"Gerry and Kate will naturally be pleased to hear that Mr Brown is seeking such assurances

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1289026,00.html

[klaasend]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312091,00.html

Detective: '100 Percent Certain Madeleine Is Alive'
Sunday , November 18, 2007

Portuguese investigators are "100 percent sure" missing toddler Madeleine McCann is alive, Britain's Sunday Mirror reports.

Francisco Marco, a private eye hired by the McCann family to track the missing girl - who would be 4 years old if she's still alive - told The Mirror he is "sure she was abducted."

"We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper," he said.

A Portuguese tipster told the PI that she saw Madeleine inside a van with a woman two days after she went missing.

The tipster then identified the woman from the van in photographs shown to her by detectives.

The investigators believe Madeleine was abducted in a carefully planned operation and moved out of the country. They are close to locating the woman from the photographs.

A friend of the McCann family said Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry, are "encouraged by what investigators are saying and have been given new hope."

Madeleine McCann went missing in May while on vacation with her family in Praia de Luz, Portugal.

Her parents left the toddler and her 2-year-old twin siblings alone in a hotel room when they went to dinner nearby.

Her parents have been on-again, off-again suspects in Madeleine's disappearance

[NYC_lover]

Mommy McCann refused lie auscultator/lie-detector.

De Telegraaf:
Moeder Maddie weigert leugendetector
AMSTERDAM -  Kate, de moeder van de verdwenen Madeleine McCann, weigert een test met een leugendetector, meldt de Daily Mail zondag.
 
Kate McCann is benaderd door een vooraanstaande Britse specialist inzake leugendetectors om een test af te leggen en daarmee haar naam te zuiveren.

Maar de McCanns kwamen daarop met een lijst aan voorwaarden waaraan niet te voldoen was. Zo wilden ze van deskundige Don Cargill dat hij zou bewijzen dat zijn test 100 procent accuraat was, dat hij de beste polygraaf in de wereld is en dat de test in een Portugese rechtbank geldig zou zijn.

Woordvoerder Clarence Mitchell zegt in de Daily Mail dat het echtpaar McCann "de test uiteraard niet gaat doen. De test is niet toegelaten in Portugal en er zijn twijfels over de accuraatheid. Gerry en Kate vertellen gewoon de waarheid".


Mother Maddie refuses to lie auscultator -Amsterdam - Refuse a test with a lie auscultator Kate, the mother of the disappeared Madeleine McCann, Sunday communicates mail to the Daily. Kate McCann have been approached a prominent British specialist concerning lie auscultators taking off a test and with that its name to purify. But the McCanns came then with a list to conditions to which were not to satisfy. This way they wanted of expert Don Cargill he would prove that that 100 per cent tests that be accuraat were he is the best polygraaf in the world and that the test in a Portuguese court would be valid. Spokesman Clarence Mitchell says in the Daily mail that the couple McCann the test of course does not will do. The test has not been allowed in Portugal and its doubts concerning the accuracy. Gerry and Kate tell simply truth.

[Anna]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312091,00.html

Detective: '100 Percent Certain Madeleine Is Alive'
Sunday , November 18, 2007

Portuguese investigators are "100 percent sure" missing toddler Madeleine McCann is alive, Britain's Sunday Mirror reports.

Francisco Marco, a private eye hired by the McCann family to track the missing girl - who would be 4 years old if she's still alive - told The Mirror he is "sure she was abducted.""We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper," he said.

A Portuguese tipster told the PI that she saw Madeleine inside a van with a woman two days after she went missing.

The tipster then identified the woman from the van in photographs shown to her by detectives.

The investigators believe Madeleine was abducted in a carefully planned operation and moved out of the country. They are close to locating the woman from the photographs.

A friend of the McCann family said Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry, are "encouraged by what investigators are saying and have been given new hope."

Madeleine McCann went missing in May while on vacation with her family in Praia de Luz, Portugal.

Her parents left the toddler and her 2-year-old twin siblings alone in a hotel room when they went to dinner nearby.

Her parents have been on-again, off-again suspects in Madeleine's disappearance

This seems designed to make it appear the members of law enforcement have this belief and that it is not just PI's on the McCann's massive payroll that hold this belief.


Of course, many will only read the headline and get the totally wrong information.  But that's the way a well-oiled PR campaign works.  Theirs is among the slickest I have ever seen.

.

[NYC_lover]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312091,00.html

Detective: '100 Percent Certain Madeleine Is Alive'
Sunday , November 18, 2007

Portuguese investigators are "100 percent sure" missing toddler Madeleine McCann is alive, Britain's Sunday Mirror reports.

Francisco Marco, a private eye hired by the McCann family to track the missing girl - who would be 4 years old if she's still alive - told The Mirror he is "sure she was abducted."

"We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper," he said.

A Portuguese tipster told the PI that she saw Madeleine inside a van with a woman two days after she went missing.

The tipster then identified the woman from the van in photographs shown to her by detectives.

The investigators believe Madeleine was abducted in a carefully planned operation and moved out of the country. They are close to locating the woman from the photographs.

A friend of the McCann family said Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry, are "encouraged by what investigators are saying and have been given new hope."

Madeleine McCann went missing in May while on vacation with her family in Praia de Luz, Portugal.

Her parents left the toddler and her 2-year-old twin siblings alone in a hotel room when they went to dinner nearby.

Her parents have been on-again, off-again suspects in Madeleine's disappearance

YEAH I think she is also for 100% alive!!!
I think she is now in South Africa or Russia, because first she was see in Spain, Italy, Belgium, Portugal, Bosnie, 3 times in Morocco, and Malta.....

[Anna]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312091,00.html

Detective: '100 Percent Certain Madeleine Is Alive'
Sunday , November 18, 2007

Portuguese investigators are "100 percent sure" missing toddler Madeleine McCann is alive, Britain's Sunday Mirror reports.

Francisco Marco, a private eye hired by the McCann family to track the missing girl - who would be 4 years old if she's still alive - told The Mirror he is "sure she was abducted.""We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper," he said.

A Portuguese tipster told the PI that she saw Madeleine inside a van with a woman two days after she went missing.

The tipster then identified the woman from the van in photographs shown to her by detectives.

The investigators believe Madeleine was abducted in a carefully planned operation and moved out of the country. They are close to locating the woman from the photographs.

A friend of the McCann family said Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry, are "encouraged by what investigators are saying and have been given new hope."

Madeleine McCann went missing in May while on vacation with her family in Praia de Luz, Portugal.

Her parents left the toddler and her 2-year-old twin siblings alone in a hotel room when they went to dinner nearby.

Her parents have been on-again, off-again suspects in Madeleine's disappearance

This seems designed to make it appear the members of law enforcement have this belief and that it is not just PI's on the McCann's massive payroll that hold this belief.


Of course, many will only read the headline and get the totally wrong information.  But that's the way a well-oiled PR campaign works.  Theirs is among the slickest I have ever seen.

.

Did anyone else notice Dana thought exactly what McCann's paid guns want people to think, that it is law enforcement that is saying this instead of those on McCann payroll.

As I said before, slick, very slick.

.

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312091,00.html

Detective: '100 Percent Certain Madeleine Is Alive'
Sunday , November 18, 2007

Portuguese investigators are "100 percent sure" missing toddler Madeleine McCann is alive, Britain's Sunday Mirror reports.

Francisco Marco, a private eye hired by the McCann family to track the missing girl - who would be 4 years old if she's still alive - told The Mirror he is "sure she was abducted.""We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper," he said.

A Portuguese tipster told the PI that she saw Madeleine inside a van with a woman two days after she went missing.

The tipster then identified the woman from the van in photographs shown to her by detectives.

The investigators believe Madeleine was abducted in a carefully planned operation and moved out of the country. They are close to locating the woman from the photographs.

A friend of the McCann family said Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry, are "encouraged by what investigators are saying and have been given new hope."

Madeleine McCann went missing in May while on vacation with her family in Praia de Luz, Portugal.

Her parents left the toddler and her 2-year-old twin siblings alone in a hotel room when they went to dinner nearby.

Her parents have been on-again, off-again suspects in Madeleine's disappearance

This seems designed to make it appear the members of law enforcement have this belief and that it is not just PI's on the McCann's massive payroll that hold this belief.


Of course, many will only read the headline and get the totally wrong information.  But that's the way a well-oiled PR campaign works.  Theirs is among the slickest I have ever seen.

.

Did anyone else notice Dana thought exactly what McCann's paid guns want people to think, that it is law enforcement that is saying this instead of those on McCann payroll.

As I said before, slick, very slick.

.

Anna ... I too immediately recognized that many readers would be mislead by the headline statement of this article if it was not read carefully and fully comprehended.  When I heard Dana's words ... I knew I was right in my perception.  I am thankful that somebody pointed out to him that it was the McCann's private investigator who has deemed 100% that Madeleine McCann is alive and ... not the PLE.

As usual ... GREAT SHOW DANA!!!

Janet.

[Kat_Gram]

CBS, 48 Hours is about 'What happened to Maddie?' tonight at 10pm ET. 

I watched that Louise and it was an interesting show.
I am in Canada and leaving children unattended is some sort of a crime.. I believe the law here is that someone older than 12 has to be in charge. Someone has to report or
something unfortunate that would bring the authorities to the home, else who would know. My feelings after I watched the show were the same as before, the McCanns did a stupid stupid thing and they will never forgive themselves. The sliding door was unlocked. The detective who went to the resort on behalf of the program sat in the Tapas bar at the same table and the door could not be seen. He also believed that not as much checking as was first reported was the case. The parents erred stupidly and some watchful predators seized the opportunity to act.

[pdh3]

CBS, 48 Hours is about 'What happened to Maddie?' tonight at 10pm ET. 

I watched that Louise and it was an interesting show.
I am in Canada and leaving children unattended is some sort of a crime.. I believe the law here is that someone older than 12 has to be in charge. Someone has to report or
something unfortunate that would bring the authorities to the home, else who would know. My feelings after I watched the show were the same as before, the McCanns did a stupid stupid thing and they will never forgive themselves. The sliding door was unlocked. The detective who went to the resort on behalf of the program sat in the Tapas bar at the same table and the door could not be seen. He also believed that not as much checking as was first reported was the case. The parents erred stupidly and some watchful predators seized the opportunity to act.

Here is the link to 48 Hours:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/14/48hours/main3501086.shtml

[klaasend]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312145,00.html

Report: Madeleine McCann Spotted With Suspect’s Girlfriend
Monday , November 19, 2007

 Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are looking into a possible sighting of the girl with a suspect’s girlfriend, the London Daily Mail reported Monday.

A witness believes he saw the girl with a man and a woman in Portugal two days after she vanished and had identified the woman as Michaela Walczuch, the German-born girlfriend of suspect Robert Murat, the Mail reported.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=494747&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

The witness, who has not been identified, told police that the couple was behaving suspiciously, and looked as if they were trying to hide the child, the Mail reported.

The report follows certainty by an investigator hired by the McCann family that Madeleine is alive and that he is close to finding her.

Madeleine disappeared from her family’s vacation home in Praia da Luz, Portugal on May 3 while her parents were dining with friends close by. Her parents have been on-again, off-again suspects in Madeleine's disappearance.

[BTgirl]

From The Daily Mail - Murat's girlfriend 'spotted with Madeleine' two days after she vanished
By VANESSA ALLEN

http://tinyurl.com/2552z5
 
Last updated at 16:59pm on 19th November 2007

Police searching for Madeleine McCann were last night investigating a possible sighting of her with the girlfriend of suspect Robert Murat.

A witness has told detectives he saw Madeleine with a man and a woman in Portugal two days after her disappearance.

The witness is believed to have identified the woman as Mr Murat's German-born girlfriend Michaela Walczuch.

Detectives there are taking the report very seriously and have passed the details to police.

They are linking it to a sighting by the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner, who saw a man carrying a child away from the couple's apartment in Praia da Luz.

He is said to match the new witness's description of the man he saw.

The private detectives said the new sighting supported their belief that Madeleine is still alive and the McCanns were said to be "extremely encouraged".

Francisco Marco, the boss of Metodo 3 said: "We are 100 per cent sure she is alive. We are sure she was abducted. We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper."

Some details of the sighting will be revealed in a Panorama documentary on BBC 1 tonight, the 200th day since Madeleine disappeared on May 3.

It happened at an undisclosed location in central Portugal, about 100 miles from Praia da Luz.

The witness said he saw the woman in a van with the little girl. The man was standing nearby. Neither of them looked Portuguese, the witness said.

He is believed to have identified Miss Walczuch, 34, from photographs.

The mother-of-one was interviewed by police after Mr Murat, 33, was named as an official suspect in May.

Her estranged husband Luis Antonio was also questioned.

The pair still live together in Lagos, about five miles from Praia da Luz, even though Miss Walczuch has been in a relationship with Mr Murat for almost two years.

The British expat remains an official suspect but has always denied any involvement.

Miss Walczuch was unavailable for comment yesterday. Her flat was empty and she failed to answer phone calls.

She met Mr Murat when they worked together for a Lagos estate agent and they set up their own property business. Her husband, a gardener and pool cleaner, was said to have given his approval to the affair, but it was blamed for the breakdown of Mr Murat's 11-year marriage.

His wife Dawn returned to Britain with their daughter Sofia, four, when she discovered the relationship.

Mr McCann said he believes he was watched when he went to check on Madeleine and the couple's two-year-old twins, then returned to the nearby restaurant where he and his wife were dining with friends.

The Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas reported yesterday that detectives now believe they abandoned the abduction theory too quickly in favour of investigating the McCanns when there was no "concrete data" to incriminate them.

[Tamikosmom]

Where has this "new" witness been for the past six months?

Janet

Suspect's girlfriend denies being with Madeleine

Published Date: 19 November 2007
Source: Press Association
Location: The Press Association Newsdesk

The girlfriend of Madeleine McCann suspect Robert Murat has strenuously denied a claim that she was spotted with the Rothley girl two days after she vanished, a friend has said.

A new witness has identified Michaela Walczuch as a woman seen with the missing girl in central Portugal about 100 miles from where she disappeared on May 3, a source said.

[Rob]

joaohonesto



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 545

   
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:38 pm    Post subject: PRO-McCANNS REJOICE!!!!    Report this post Reply with quote
This is some news from Portugal I posted at the other forum, but they don't seem to have found their way to the MF, and that would be a pity, since they should have all pro-McCanns ordering crates of the finest champagne while feverishly posting threads about these news with the blessing of the esteemed Mods.

It’s very simple: from next Jan. 3, Portugal’s notorious “secrecy laws” are being turned into its very opposite: under the old laws, essentially everything pertaining to a judicial case was secret; now, in a 180 degree turn, essentially everything is to be made public.

And the relevant consequence is that from Jan. 3 on ALL THE EVIDENCE COLLECTED BY THE PJ REGARDING THE MCCANNS AND HANDED OVER TO THE JUDGE ON SEPT. 10 WILL BE IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

Now the obvious reason champagne bottle caps should be popping up at any minute now in the pro-MC camp is because, as you pro-McCanns have been insisting all along, the PJ has not any evidence against the McCanns, or at best it's “contaminated” beyond hope — nothing else would be expectable from the Moo Cops, right endreas?

So from Jan. 3 — rejoice, pro-McCs!!! — all the PJ's incompetence, bluffing, indeed their frame-up of the McCanns, should be exposed! We should have confirmation that indeed the DNA forensics are 100% INconclusive (as a poster with an alleged source at the FSS is stating right now elsewhere in the MF), that the notorious “4,000 pages” are mostly blank or at best filled with doodles, that the 40 questions put to Kate were actually only one, to the effect of “Aren’t you ashamed to have killed your daughter?” repeated 40 times and forcing the Portuguese Leonor Cipriano to bravely refuse to answer it 40 times (I'm not making this up, essentially this suggestion was posted here in all seriousness), etc., etc.

Now please note that is will happen regardless of whether the McCanns are charged or the case is filed away; at the very most, alleging that the case is especially complex, the secrecy laws can be prorogued for a further 90 days and no more. Also, the arguidos can request that the case, or parts of it, not be made public, but they’d would have to convince a judge that the reasons were valid (and the McCanns, being completely innocent, surely won't file such a request, not THEM!). The judge, in turn, can decide not to make the case public, but again he’ll have to invoke very ponderous reasons, such as fear of social unrest or harm to public morality.

So am I right in having assumed this news would have pro-McCanns deliriously happy?

Of course, if the impossible, according to pro-McCanns, turns out to be true (of course that would imply the highly unlikely prospect that Moo Cops exist only in xenophobic minds) and the PJ does indeed have solid evidence against the McCanns… from Jan. 3 we should be able to know everything about Gerry’s 14 text messages, the “how to hide a corpse” book found in the Apt., every word that was said in all the interrogations carried out so far (McCanns, Murat, the Tapas merry band…), the smallest details of the preliminary report on the forensics received by the PJ on Sept. 10, what was said in the May 23 meeting between Buck, Kate & Gerry on one side and Olegário Sousa and Luís Neves of the PJ on the other, what’s really on Kate’s diary… — I could go on… even without speculating on what evidence the PJ may have but devilishly decided not to disclose… but it would be pointless because you’re just so SURE that it's not going be the case, right pro-McCanns? The PJ have NOTHING, or VERY little, right?

Special note to Clarence Mitchell: take a break tonight and go out to have a few drinks! You deserve it! The "heinous crime" you accused the Portuguese police and authorities of committing against the McCanns in the statement you made when you became their official PR on Sept. 18 will be exposed! Because, you see, otherwise it's a VERY serious charge that should not go uncontested…

[Rob]

Here's the link to the last post.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=27663&start=0

[Anna]

A witness saw Murat and girlfriend with Madeleine, in broad daylight just two days after she went missing but only now for the anniversary program does he disclose this?

I would have thought kidnappers would lie low a bit and not be out and about with this child so soon after her disappearance with everybody in the country looking for her.

But then I would have thought somebody who saw her would have come forth before the sixth month anniversary program about her disappearance.  How fortunate the timing for that!  Gave fresh material pointing away from the parents and also the opportunity to disguise the quote of their hired PI as PLE.  Must have been quite a show for them.

So any minute now, we can expect the news of Madeleine's recovery based on this new witness and information.  Our prayers will have been answered if that's the case.  Anything is possible.

.

[Anna]

Rob,
Is that article saying that come Jan 3, all information will be released and Portugal will no longer have "secrecy" laws?  Am I reading that correctly?

That's a pretty big step for a country to take all at once.  Should be interesting to see what, if anything, is known as factual. 

At least there is that date to look forward to some advancement in this investigation that seems to be going no where.  But we thought we would see all in the Kalpoes law suit and that came to nothing so far.  Maybe this will be for real and not just a rumor.

Anything other than the constant rumors in this tragedy would be an improvement.  At least I think it would.  Hope it would.

.

[pdh3]

I agree Anna. Something substantial and factual would help.

I hate to think that Madeleine is lost forever.