Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Tamikosmom]

Joran van der Sloot was the last person seen with Natalee Holloway prior to her disappearance and ... we all agree that ... in the process of elimination ... in the pursuance of justice for Natalee Holloway ... he is the person who should be the primary focus of suspicion and ... we all agree that he should be fully investigated.  It enrages us when the ALE and internet posters with an Aruban agenda attempt to shift the primary focus to Beth ... Jug ... MB students ... security guards ...

Why then should the McCanns be above suspicion? These parents were the last persons seen with their daughter prior to her disappearance. Should this not imply ... in the process of elimination ... in the pursuance of justice for Maddie ... that the McCanns are the primary focus of suspicion?  Should this not imply that they are fully investigated?

The ALE is perceived by many to be corrupt.  There is the perception that enrages many ... a perception that the last person observed with Natalee Holloway is being distanced from implication and ... the primary focus is being directed on others.

However ... the PLE is perceived by many to be corrupt because they ARE focusing the investigation on the last persons seen with Maddie.  They are perceived by many to be corrupt because ... in a joint effort with the Britsh ... they are gathering forensic evidence that may implicate the McCann's in the what happening prior to their daughter's alleged abduction.

I do not get it!

Janet

[robots]

the parents are involved in this thing  DEEP 


Inspector Robots

[klaasend]

The Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio - Monday, September 10, 2007 - Guests include Clint Van Zandt, Stephanie Good, Jon Leiberman and Jacque Hollander
 
Dana’s guests this week include:

• Clint Van Zandt - discussing the Madeleine McCann case
• Stephanie Good - New York Times Bestselling Author of Exposed and her new book A Rush To Injustice discussing Mike Nifong’s 24 hour jail sentence
• Jon Leiberman - discussing America’s Most Wanted capture of Richard Goldberg and the hunt for Jon Savarino Schillaci
• Jacque Hollander

LISTEN LIVE At 9PM EASTERN

REMINDER - ON NOW 

[SunnyinTX]

the parents are involved in this thing  DEEP 


Inspector Robots

I sincerely hope you are wrong....so please tell me why you think they are involved in this??  IMO all the stuff coming out is just stuff.....no evidence....just rumors of evidence so far......I am still giving the parents the benefit of the doubt and waiting to see IF there is real, tangible evidence...so far all I am seeing is...rumors not facts....I read someplace else that the reason the parents hadn't left Portugal was because they knew they had to move her body and dispose of it...as I read more this was a poster's OPINION...but it was stated as fact.....so who knows really ....I just don't think the police would have let them leave the country if they had any real proof....JMO of course

[robots]

the parents are involved in this thing  DEEP 


Inspector Robots

I sincerely hope you are wrong....so please tell me why you think they are involved in this??  IMO all the stuff coming out is just stuff.....no evidence....just rumors of evidence so far......I am still giving the parents the benefit of the doubt and waiting to see IF there is real, tangible evidence...so far all I am seeing is...rumors not facts....I read someplace else that the reason the parents hadn't left Portugal was because they knew they had to move her body and dispose of it...as I read more this was a poster's OPINION...but it was stated as fact.....so who knows really ....I just don't think the police would have let them leave the country if they had any real proof....JMO of course

hi Sunny.
well, let me first say i would need a LOGICAL answer as to why there is DNA in the trunk of
car that was RENTED weeks after Madeleine disappeared.

this car was rented by the parents

now, the logical answer is that the body of the girl was put in the trunk at sometime
im not saying the parents moved the child, but i am saying that someone had to have had to move the child and in the same car that the parents rented


IF and i stress.....IF this is true    tell me how that could happen



Inspector

[klaasend]

Clint van Zandt just said on Dana Pretzer that they better have more evidence than Madeleine's DNA in the car.  Clint said it could have gotten there a number of different ways.  Clint said they better have telephone intercepts/wiretaps or something more damning.  Clint is on the fence, he finds it hard to believe what the Portugal LE is accusing them of. 

[Tamikosmom]

O/T

Klaas ... Red ... Dugga

It has been ages since I have been able to access Dana's shows.  Believe me ... it was not that I did not try and try and try.  I have been relying on feedback by other monkeys.

Now is is so easy.  I clicked three times and ... have been listening for the past 15 minutes.

Thanks

Janet

[Rob]

Janet you raise the exact point that I am trying to make. Over the last 130 or so days, the PLE has not been able to zero in on the McCanns until one month ago?

They gave more interviews with the police and even more public interviews with the media. Nothing caught their attention? In the Natalee case, in the first 24 hours all the stories were convoluted. In all that time, nothing attracted the PLE to the McCanns? They were the first people investigated. Then they said with in only days, they were not sure that Madeline was abducted. Sousa himself said that.

Then they moved into an area of Pedophiles, Murat, and then back to the parents,then to Murat's associate Sergei Malinka, then all over the map, to a Doctor Friend, then back to the parents. (I'm sure I missed a few steps in there).

They have been saying for over a month that at any minute Murat would be released from suspect status. That has still not happened.

If the PLE know the route they are traveling, does that route include Murat still to this day? If they are so sure that Kate and Gerry have committed the crime, why is Murat still on suspect status? Is he some type of an accomplice?

It doesn't look like it, as no one seem to be able to link them other than possibly living in the same area more than 20 years ago. And by 'area', I mean like a city. Possibly Rothley.

[sb]

FIVE WEEKS AFTER SHE DISAPPEARED?

How can they be sure about that? And what does that say?

CERTAINLY her body cannot have been in the car all that time. And with all the scrutiny on that case, they could NOT have been hiding her, alive, at that time. Nor could they have moved her body at that point, when the whole world was watching their every move.

This is Aruba-style Fantasyland forensics, here. 

[Rob]

Sunny, the McCanns told them they were leaving.. I believe on Thursday or Friday and they also told them they would come back on a moments notice. The PLE allowed them to leave. So need need for extradition. That's they way I remember reading it.

Maybe I'm wrong...I don't have the link to the article handy.

also, after the McCanns left the PLE through their accomplices in the media, said that the McCanns somehow pulled a stall maneuver through their attorney on Thursday when they wanted to arrest them or detain them. This allowed them to leave the country.

Someone not telling the truth. It shouldn't be hard to get to the bottom of this if we compare all the known statements.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet you raise the exact point that I am trying to make. Over the last 130 or so days, the PLE has not been able to zero in on the McCanns until one month ago?

They gave more interviews with the police and even more public interviews with the media. Nothing caught their attention? In the Natalee case, in the first 24 hours all the stories were convoluted. In all that time, nothing attracted the PLE to the McCanns? They were the first people investigated. Then they said with in only days, they were not sure that Madeline was abducted. Sousa himself said that.

Then they moved into an area of Pedophiles, Murat, and then back to the parents,then to Murat's associate Sergei Malinka, then all over the map, to a Doctor Friend, then back to the parents. (I'm sure I missed a few steps in there).

They have been saying for over a month that at any minute Murat would be released from suspect status. That has still not happened.

If the PLE know the route they are traveling, does that route include Murat still to this day? If they are so sure that Kate and Gerry have committed the crime, why is Murat still on suspect status? Is he some type of an accomplice?

It doesn't look like it, as no one seem to be able to link them other than possibly living in the same area more than 20 years ago. And by 'area', I mean like a city. Possibly Rothley.

Regarding Murat ... my neighbour has been following this case since day one and ... in all her research she has not been able to find one shred of evidence that Murat ever had a connection to Maddie.  The PLE has deemed him a suspect and ... everybody seems just fine with that.  However ... the last persons who were with Maddie are ... in the opinion of many ... considered above suspicion.  It is implied that they being framed dispite alleged forensic and wiretap evidence gathered in a joint effort between the Portugese and the British.

I do not believe that the Portugese investigation is corrupt ... I believe it is downright incompetent.  The blunder that the PLE made in many aspects of the Madeleine McCann case were numerous.   As you point out Rob ... rather than making the last persons who were with Maddie as the primary focus ... the investigation spread out in many directions.

However ... in the past month and a half the Portugese did what they should have done in the beginning ... they have been focusing the investigation on the McCanns ... the last people who with the missing Maddie.  In cooperation with the British ... wiretap and forensic evidence has been gathered.  In my opinion ... the British involvement gives this aspect of the investigation credibility.

I say ... let us wait and see if the evidence and documents that were handed over to the prosecutor of the Madeleine McCann case today are considered worthy of charges or not.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Missing Madelaine McCann's mother accused
September 09, 2007 12:00am

It emerged that the McCanns have been under round-the-clock surveillance by Portuguese police for more than a month.  Intimate conversations between them have been secretly monitored and their movements tracked. A British source said that after a slow start, the police inquiry has been more focused and professional.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22385669-663,00.html


   

[robots]

FIVE WEEKS AFTER SHE DISAPPEARED?

How can they be sure about that? And what does that say?

CERTAINLY her body cannot have been in the car all that time. And with all the scrutiny on that case, they could NOT have been hiding her, alive, at that time. Nor could they have moved her body at that point, when the whole world was watching their every move.

This is Aruba-style Fantasyland forensics, here. 

if the body was hidden the SAME DAY that she supposedly was abducted but earlier in the day. 


the parent(s) could have easily brought the body somwhere else, went to dinner and
acted like all 3 KIDS were in the room. but the girl was NOT there.

then 3-4-5 weeks later, had someone else use the RENTAL car to move the body to a more secure location.

the body could have been bagged, in a case, a suitcase, a trunk, a barrel or simply wrapped
in a blanket, then PUT in the trunk and moved again

[robots]

the wiretaps will TELL it all,

thats why the police think it was an accident, because they OVERHEARD something
stating that it was an accident

thats why the plea deal

but they dont have the body


this train wreck is about to STOP

[San]

Clint van Zandt just said on Dana Pretzer that they better have more evidence than Madeleine's DNA in the car.  Clint said it could have gotten there a number of different ways.   Clint said they better have telephone intercepts/wiretaps or something more damning.  Clint is on the fence, he finds it hard to believe what the Portugal LE is accusing them of. 

I agree.

I remember Beth keeping Natalee's clothes for DNA purposes so why can't Madeleine's DNA be on her clothes.  What if there was blood in the room and the parents didn't even know it was there because the amount was so small they didn't see it.

I wonder if the police looked into who else rented this car.

[mrs. red]

we need someone IN Portugal to be here and communicate... and not someone that will act like the Aruba cover up troops....

or someone from England ... we need evidence... and I am sure if anyone can find stuff it's the monkeys....

[Rob]

Janet -  I see no evidence that Robert Murat is involved. I find it interesting that he is still not cleared. There were many areas overlooked. Such as his garden that the PLE just raked over three weeks or so ago.

As for the DNA, I will withhold my complete judgment on that. I'm not sure. I'm not seeing how this is possible and the McCanns pulled a Houdini.

With regards to whether or not this police department is corrupt or not, I will also withhold judgment on that. However, my interest is raised and they have attracted my attention. Especially Sousa.

As for the wiretaps - I will use the same standard that I used for the VDS, I believe they exist and there could be incriminating evidence contained on those tapes. But again, I would need to hear it all in its full context. And not snippets to fit an agenda. Should a trial occur, that should be readily available. Not like the ALE sitting on evidence and bones.

EX:
If I say I need a large suitcase to travel home, that should not be construed to mean I am moving a corpse out of the country.

Clothes were prolly bought to stay 4 months.

[mbs]

I don't believe it is certain that Madeline's DNA has been found in the trunk of the McCann's rental car.  That is the problem with this case, you can't necessarily believe the reports. All of the news outlets reporting on the DNA are just repeating what other news outlets are reporting, and the McCann family is repeating what they hear on the news. It all originates with some anonomyous police source.  Here is a link to several other reports indicating that the official Portuguese spokesperson says that the report regarding the DNA in the rental car is false.  IF Madeline's blood was found under the carpet in the trunk of the car, yes, that would be very suspicious. I just don't know if it actually was found.  If a speck of DNA was found in the interior of the car, which is from another report I read, that's not so suspicious, it could have come from her clothes or toys being placed in the car when the family moved from the resort to the apartment they stayed in.  Or from her stuffed cat that Kate McCann has been carrying around.  We don't know what the evidence is.

http://www.gazetadigital.blogspot.com/

[bleachedblack]

Clint van Zandt just said on Dana Pretzer that they better have more evidence than Madeleine's DNA in the car.  Clint said it could have gotten there a number of different ways.   Clint said they better have telephone intercepts/wiretaps or something more damning.  Clint is on the fence, he finds it hard to believe what the Portugal LE is accusing them of. 

I agree.

I remember Beth keeping Natalee's clothes for DNA purposes so why can't Madeleine's DNA be on her clothes.  What if there was blood in the room and the parents didn't even know it was there because the amount was so small they didn't see it.

I wonder if the police looked into who else rented this car.

I am certainly not a forensic expert but it would seem to me that for DNA to get into the floor boards of a car trunk it would have to be from some substance pooling. In that way it (blood,body fluids whatever) might collect in such a place. Sorry , but again I just don't believe the McCann's are guilty of any crime let alone one that such evidence would likely reveal.

[Kat_Gram]

I think that it's odd that they only interviewed Kate twice and after the second time
they come up with this.
I am just thinking of what said about the Lunsford family.
The conflicting reports of how much of a match in the trunk of the car desn't help does it ? There are two siblings.
Just can't see the parents, if it was an accident as suggested having the fortitude to come up with such an elaborate hoax so quickly.
And then there was Neil Entwistle.

[mrs. red]

Can some one clarifiy for me how for certain we know that Madeline's dna was found in the car,when they didn't even rent the car until 25 days after she went missing???