Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[MsVada]

This is an article on the stages of decomposition....it is not for everyone....and it will stay
with you for a long time...sort of a notice to the faint of heart....


http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1478719

This is exactly why I don't believe they put her in the trunk/boot for 25 days and nobody noticed.  The smell would have been horribly noticeable.  And with all eyes on them during that time, I just can't see it.

Not to mention the DNA.  If she was an IVF baby,  then where did they get her DNA sample from and was it before she went missing they had one to compare it to?  Obviously it wouldn''t be aperfect match to her parents as there must have been an egg or sperm donor depending on which one of the McCann's was infertile.....

[NYC_lover]

Holy moses!

De Telegraaf:
'Gerry niet vader van Maddie'
AMSTERDAM - Gerry is niet de echte vader van de verdwenen peuter Maddie McCann. Dat is de laatste onthulling in de bizarre zaak rond het spoorloze 4-jarige Engelse meisje. De mededeling komt van een Portugese krant en is in Engeland als een bom ingeslagen.

De krant 24horas weet te melden dat Kate zwanger geworden is via een IVF-behandeling, maar dat het sperma niet van hartchirurg Gerry komt. Via de kunstmatige bevruchting werd Maddie geboren.

De Engelse kranten zijn woedend en spreken van een lastercampagne van media, agenten en justitie in Portugal. De rechercheurs hadden ook al eens gelekt dat Kate soms gewelddadig en 'hysterisch' was en snel haar geduld zou verliezen.

De Portugese media drukten de verklaring van een Engelse af die in het appartement van de McCanns in Praia de Luz woonde. Pamela Fenn zei dat Kate soms uit haar dak ging beneden en dat Maddie vaak maar op bed werd gelegd als het stel wilde zwemmen. Daarbij hoorde ze het meisje vaak om haar vader roepen.

Gerry McCann is not the father of Madeleine McCann says Portugal newspapers.

[klaasend]

Holy moses!

De Telegraaf:
'Gerry niet vader van Maddie'
AMSTERDAM - Gerry is niet de echte vader van de verdwenen peuter Maddie McCann. Dat is de laatste onthulling in de bizarre zaak rond het spoorloze 4-jarige Engelse meisje. De mededeling komt van een Portugese krant en is in Engeland als een bom ingeslagen.

De krant 24horas weet te melden dat Kate zwanger geworden is via een IVF-behandeling, maar dat het sperma niet van hartchirurg Gerry komt. Via de kunstmatige bevruchting werd Maddie geboren.

De Engelse kranten zijn woedend en spreken van een lastercampagne van media, agenten en justitie in Portugal. De rechercheurs hadden ook al eens gelekt dat Kate soms gewelddadig en 'hysterisch' was en snel haar geduld zou verliezen.

De Portugese media drukten de verklaring van een Engelse af die in het appartement van de McCanns in Praia de Luz woonde. Pamela Fenn zei dat Kate soms uit haar dak ging beneden en dat Maddie vaak maar op bed werd gelegd als het stel wilde zwemmen. Daarbij hoorde ze het meisje vaak om haar vader roepen.

Gerry McCann is not the father of Madeleine McCann says Portugal newspapers.

I don't find that odd at all.  We know all 3 girls were conceived by in-vitro fertilization.  We haven't been told why they had to use in-vitro.  Could be a problem with Mr. McCann's sperm and that Mrs. McCann's egg was fertilized by a donor sperm then implanted in her uterus.

[SunnyinTX]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=481168&in_page_id=1811





'Gerry is not Madeleine's real father': The Portuguese media's latest attack on the McCanns
Last updated at 13:11pm on 11th September 2007
 
 Comments (1)

In the latest of a series of increasingly personal smears against the McCanns, a Portuguese newspaper has claimed that Gerry McCann is not Madeleine's real father.

Sensationalist tabloid '24 horas' claimed that Portuguese police suspected the heart surgeon was not Madeleine's natural father.

With the front page headline, 'Police suspect Gerry is not Maddie's dad', the paper reported detectives were intending to use DNA samples to confirm their suspicions he was not the sperm donor behind the successful IVF treatment that led to her birth.


Portuguese police have launched a new smear campaign against Kate McCann via the Portuguese media

The allegation is the latest episode in an astonishing smear campaign launched by both Portuguese detectives and the country's media.

Detectives trying to prove that Kate McCann killed her daughter have painted the 39-year-old doctor as a violent mother prone to "hysterical reactions" and losing control.


The allegations were leaked to Portuguese newspapers hours after Mrs McCann and her husband Gerry left the country under a cloud of suspicion about the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine.


Quoting police sources, the papers alleged that Mrs McCann became "visibly out of control" under questioning by police, and that witnesses had described her as "violent" and "aggressive" towards her children.

It was claimed that she routinely put Madeleine and the two-year-old twins to bed in the family's holiday apartment "while Gerry played tennis and lay by the pool".

The reports also quoted witnesses who have given statements to police.


Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below.


Madeleine McCann

She claimed that "the little girl's screams calling for her daddy were very audible".

Another witness is quoted as saying that Mrs McCann "seemed to have moments of aggressiveness towards her children" and that her husband, "though more absent, had more emotional control".


Mrs McCann is said to have strongly denied both these allegations in police interviews.


The damaging picture painted by Portuguese newspapers emerged as police sought to convince the public prosecutor that they have a strong enough case to charge Mrs McCann over the murder or accidental death of her daughter.


The McCanns have repeatedly insisted they are loving parents who had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance. They are convinced police are trying to frame them.


But the allegations, strongly denied by the family, risk poisoning public support for the couple and stopping donations to the "Find Madeleine" campaign they set up.


Portugal's secrecy laws prevent police from talking about the investigation, but the leaked material appears to contain specific information about interviews conducted with the McCanns last week.


It was claimed that Mrs McCann became "hysterical" at times during her 13 hours of interrogation and refused to reply to some of the questions.

It was alleged that she offered no explanation for why Madeleine's DNA appeared to have been found in a car the couple hired 25 days after she vanished.


Nor is she said to have given any satisfactory answer to whether she had slapped her daughter, or whether she sedated the children.


The Portuguese police are reported in the newspapers as having concluded that Madeleine was killed by accident.

They believe that her parents then hid her body in their car boot in the compartment for the spare wheel.

The four-year-old's blood was found under the carpet of their hired Renault Scenic in the place of the wheel, the daily Correi da Manha reported.

[Buckeye]

Interesting article on cadaver dogs.

...She points out that there is a difference between an ordinary cadaver dog and a dog like Eagle, who is a human remains specialist.

"A human remains specialist is not a cadaver dog.  Calling it that is like calling the best investigator in the world a security guard.  A cadaver dog will find anything that is actively decomposing.  A human remains specialist will only find human remains, not just in the decomposition stage, but also the skeletal and trace evidence stages. I call Eagle a death investigator dog.  He lost the title cadaver dog at four months old.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/k9/5.html

[SunnyinTX]

Interesting article on cadaver dogs.

...She points out that there is a difference between an ordinary cadaver dog and a dog like Eagle, who is a human remains specialist.

"A human remains specialist is not a cadaver dog.  Calling it that is like calling the best investigator in the world a security guard.  A cadaver dog will find anything that is actively decomposing.  A human remains specialist will only find human remains, not just in the decomposition stage, but also the skeletal and trace evidence stages. I call Eagle a death investigator dog.  He lost the title cadaver dog at four months old.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/k9/5.html

Interesting article....amazing dog...thanks Buckeye

[klaasend]

Here is a clip of Kate and Gerry McCann being asked if they gave Madeleine a sedative:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5jtmkXXv58

[Anna]

Portugal prosecutor sends Madeleine case to judge

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1190690120070911?pageNumber=1

[SunnyinTX]

Here is a clip of Kate and Gerry McCann being asked if they gave Madeleine a sedative:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5jtmkXXv58

Thanks Klaas....he says he's not going to answer and then he does....I'd hate to be in their position....

[FoolsGold]

Gotta hand it to those Portugese cops,,, they can sure come up with some interesting theories... all of them benefiting the Portugese tourism industry!

[bleachedblack]

Holy moses!

De Telegraaf:
'Gerry niet vader van Maddie'
AMSTERDAM - Gerry is niet de echte vader van de verdwenen peuter Maddie McCann. Dat is de laatste onthulling in de bizarre zaak rond het spoorloze 4-jarige Engelse meisje. De mededeling komt van een Portugese krant en is in Engeland als een bom ingeslagen.

De krant 24horas weet te melden dat Kate zwanger geworden is via een IVF-behandeling, maar dat het sperma niet van hartchirurg Gerry komt. Via de kunstmatige bevruchting werd Maddie geboren.

De Engelse kranten zijn woedend en spreken van een lastercampagne van media, agenten en justitie in Portugal. De rechercheurs hadden ook al eens gelekt dat Kate soms gewelddadig en 'hysterisch' was en snel haar geduld zou verliezen.

De Portugese media drukten de verklaring van een Engelse af die in het appartement van de McCanns in Praia de Luz woonde. Pamela Fenn zei dat Kate soms uit haar dak ging beneden en dat Maddie vaak maar op bed werd gelegd als het stel wilde zwemmen. Daarbij hoorde ze het meisje vaak om haar vader roepen.

Gerry McCann is not the father of Madeleine McCann says Portugal newspapers.

I don't find that odd at all.  We know all 3 girls were conceived by in-vitro fertilization.  We haven't been told why they had to use in-vitro.  Could be a problem with Mr. McCann's sperm and that Mrs. McCann's egg was fertilized by a donor sperm then implanted in her uterus.

It sure would make DNA evidence difficult No?

[robots]

This is an article on the stages of decomposition....it is not for everyone....and it will stay
with you for a long time...sort of a notice to the faint of heart....


http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1478719

This is exactly why I don't believe they put her in the trunk/boot for 25 days and nobody noticed.  The smell would have been horribly noticeable.  And with all eyes on them during that time, I just can't see it.

Not to mention the DNA.  If she was an IVF baby,  then where did they get her DNA sample from and was it before she went missing they had one to compare it to?  Obviously it wouldn''t be aperfect match to her parents as there must have been an egg or sperm donor depending on which one of the McCann's was infertile.....

hi 

i have been under the impression that the child could NEVER have been in the rental car for 25 days

she was somewhere ELSE and then put in the rental car ONLY to move her

[klaasend]

Processo de Madeleine entregue a juiz de instrução criminal "somente" para pedir apreensão de objecto
 
O Ministério Público de Portimão entregou o processo sobre o desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann ao juiz de instrução criminal para pedir a apreensão de um objecto, disse à agência Lusa fonte da Procuradoria-Geral da República (PGR).

A mesma fonte adiantou que o Ministério Público, após ter requerido a apreensão de "um objecto" importante para as investigações do desaparecimento da menina inglesa, voltará a liderar o processo.

"Os autos continuam na esfera de acção do Ministério Público, que, em cumprimento do determinado pelo procurador-geral da República, deverá pronunciar-se em 10 dias sobre diligências e medidas a tomar. Os autos foram hoje presentes ao juiz de instrução criminal [de Portimão] somente para requerer a apreensão de um objecto, regressando de novo ao Ministério Público", disse a mesma fonte à Lusa.
http://www.rtp.pt/index.php?article=297734&visual=16

Translation by someone at the Mirror UK forum:

Translation:

Process of Madeleine delivers the criminal judge of first court “only” to ask for apprehension of objecto

The Public prosecution service of Portimão delivered the process on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann to the criminal judge of first court to ask for the one apprehension objecto, said to the Lusa agency source of Office of the attorney general-Generality of República (PGR).

The same source advanced that the Public prosecution service, after to have required the important apprehension of “one objecto” for the inquiries of the disappearance of the English girl, will come back to lead the process.

“The files of legal documents continue in the sphere of share of the Public prosecution service, that, in fulfilment of the determined one for the solicitor-generality of the Republic, will have to pronounce in 10 days on diligências and measures to take. The files of legal documents had been today gifts to the criminal judge of first court [of Portimão] to only require the one apprehension objecto, returning of new to the Public prosecution service”, said the same source to the Lusa.
 

[SunnyinTX]

I was reading late a couple nights ago  LATE....and came across a post Klaas made of some questions the PLE MAY ask Kate..(Klaas didn't make the questions up...she posted it from someplace) but I remember one statement...that Madeleine had fallen and hit her head perhaps at the airport???.....anyone know where the post of those questions might be?  I would love to see those questions brought forward...HELP!!

[SunnyinTX]

Processo de Madeleine entregue a juiz de instrução criminal "somente" para pedir apreensão de objecto
 
O Ministério Público de Portimão entregou o processo sobre o desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann ao juiz de instrução criminal para pedir a apreensão de um objecto, disse à agência Lusa fonte da Procuradoria-Geral da República (PGR).

A mesma fonte adiantou que o Ministério Público, após ter requerido a apreensão de "um objecto" importante para as investigações do desaparecimento da menina inglesa, voltará a liderar o processo.

"Os autos continuam na esfera de acção do Ministério Público, que, em cumprimento do determinado pelo procurador-geral da República, deverá pronunciar-se em 10 dias sobre diligências e medidas a tomar. Os autos foram hoje presentes ao juiz de instrução criminal [de Portimão] somente para requerer a apreensão de um objecto, regressando de novo ao Ministério Público", disse a mesma fonte à Lusa.
http://www.rtp.pt/index.php?article=297734&visual=16

Translation by someone at the Mirror UK forum:

Translation:

Process of Madeleine delivers the criminal judge of first court “only” to ask for apprehension of objecto

The Public prosecution service of Portimão delivered the process on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann to the criminal judge of first court to ask for the one apprehension objecto, said to the Lusa agency source of Office of the attorney general-Generality of República (PGR).

The same source advanced that the Public prosecution service, after to have required the important apprehension of “one objecto” for the inquiries of the disappearance of the English girl, will come back to lead the process.

“The files of legal documents continue in the sphere of share of the Public prosecution service, that, in fulfilment of the determined one for the solicitor-generality of the Republic, will have to pronounce in 10 days on diligências and measures to take. The files of legal documents had been today gifts to the criminal judge of first court [of Portimão] to only require the one apprehension objecto, returning of new to the Public prosecution service”, said the same source to the Lusa.
 

Klaas...would you mind translating the translation for me???  I have a terrible time making heads or tails out of any of the translations

[vms]

I was reading late a couple nights ago  LATE....and came across a post Klaas made of some questions the PLE MAY ask Kate..(Klaas didn't make the questions up...she posted it from someplace) but I remember one statement...that Madeleine had fallen and hit her head perhaps at the airport???.....anyone know where the post of those questions might be?  I would love to see those questions brought forward...HELP!!

Page 14?

[Buckeye]

There is also the question of cross-contaminiaton to consider when attempting to determine how a sample of DNA arrived at the scene.

It is possible that anything Madeleine touched days before she went missing, such as toys, may then have transferred her DNA to another point.

Another expert, Allan Scott, a lecturer at the University of Central Lancashire's School of Forensic and Investigative Sciences, also warned about the dangers of cross-contaminaion of DNA from sources outside the McCann family, such as investigating policemen who may have accidentally transferred something:

"DNA is so sensitive that if you and I met in the street and shook hands and then I went and committed some crime, then I could possibly leave your DNA at the scene," he said.   

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/mccann%20forensics%20warning/784652

[Buckeye]

Q. Can you tell if DNA comes from a dead body?
A. No. In the words of Allan Scott, a lecturer at the University of Central Lancashire's School of Forensic and Investigative Sciences: "It is about your blood group, which does not change because you have died. A person's DNA profile does not change just because they die.

He added: "You can tell if the DNA has degraded but that could happen fairly quickly depending on the environment, if for example it is getting baked in the sun.

"It may be possible to see that a DNA sample has degraded because of where it was or the length of time between it being deposited and recovered but that does not tell you if the person is dead or alive."

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/what+does+a+dna+match+tell+us/788862

[SunnyinTX]

I was reading late a couple nights ago  LATE....and came across a post Klaas made of some questions the PLE MAY ask Kate..(Klaas didn't make the questions up...she posted it from someplace) but I remember one statement...that Madeleine had fallen and hit her head perhaps at the airport???.....anyone know where the post of those questions might be?  I would love to see those questions brought forward...HELP!!

Page 14?

thanks...I am going to bring it forward

Also...Bo Deitl was just on FOX and he is qusrioning the 88% DNA report...he says he ahs never heard of 88%...ummmmmmmm I'd like to hear more on this point

[Anna]

Q. Can you tell if DNA comes from a dead body?
A. No. In the words of Allan Scott, a lecturer at the University of Central Lancashire's School of Forensic and Investigative Sciences: "It is about your blood group, which does not change because you have died. A person's DNA profile does not change just because they die.

He added: "You can tell if the DNA has degraded but that could happen fairly quickly depending on the environment, if for example it is getting baked in the sun.

"It may be possible to see that a DNA sample has degraded because of where it was or the length of time between it being deposited and recovered but that does not tell you if the person is dead or alive."

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/what+does+a+dna+match+tell+us/788862

I don't think a DNA test would tell but there are other tests which might be able to determine if a person was dead or alive when a certain sample was left.